Messages in AquaticLife group. Page 1 of 1.

Group: AquaticLife Message: 237 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/3/2004
Subject: Re: Best wishes for the new year 2004
Group: AquaticLife Message: 238 From: jshree99 Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Best wishes for the new year 2004
Group: AquaticLife Message: 239 From: Kari Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Hello, I'm new to the group and need to ask for help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 240 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Baby Guppies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 241 From: charlieinthewoodsairsoft Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 242 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Baby Guppies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 243 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 244 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 245 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hello, I'm new to the group and need to ask for help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 246 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 247 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 248 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 249 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 250 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Angel Fry (was - Guppy and neon tetra breeding)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 251 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Angel Fry (was - Guppy and neon tetra breeding)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 252 From: unemcia Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 253 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 254 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 255 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Clown Loach issues!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 256 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach issues!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 257 From: Jen Clower-Brown Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach issues!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 258 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach issues!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 259 From: Janet Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 260 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 261 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 262 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 263 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 264 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 265 From: Rhiana Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Questions about Tiger Barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 266 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: Questions about Tiger Barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 267 From: Kari Vigneau Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Hello, I'm new to the group and need to ask for help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 268 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 269 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: 20 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 270 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 272 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 273 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 274 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Hello, I'm new to the group and need to ask for help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 275 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 276 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, Goldfish and Plants (was - Question on baby fish)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 277 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, Goldfish and Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 278 From: Pamela Glass Johnson Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 279 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 280 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Algae Eaters in 15 gallon guppie fry tank (was - Question on ba
Group: AquaticLife Message: 281 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 282 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Algae Eaters in 15 gallon guppie fry tank (was - Question on ba
Group: AquaticLife Message: 283 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Bettas and Platties
Group: AquaticLife Message: 284 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Bettas and Platties
Group: AquaticLife Message: 285 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Bettas and Platties
Group: AquaticLife Message: 286 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: tips on plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 287 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Tips on Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 288 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Re: Tips on Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 289 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Re: tips on plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 290 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Fry, fry, and more fry (a beginner with LOTS of questions)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 291 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Re: tips on plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 292 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Re: tips on plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 293 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Grrrr, something else going on with another fish..I think he's sick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 294 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Re: Grrrr, something else going on with another fish,an added note
Group: AquaticLife Message: 295 From: sledge4cp Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Novice dealing with ichthyophthirius (ick) for the first time
Group: AquaticLife Message: 296 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: I'm hooked!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 297 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Re: I'm hooked!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 298 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Re: Novice dealing with ichthyophthirius (ick) for the first time
Group: AquaticLife Message: 299 From: Kelly Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Bleeding Heart Tetra??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 300 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Bleeding Heart Tetra??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 301 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Bleeding Heart Tetra??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 302 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Guppy Body curved down??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 303 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Lazy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 304 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Lazy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 305 From: Sarah Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Lazy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 306 From: sledge4cp Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Novice dealing with ichthyophthirius (ick) for the first time
Group: AquaticLife Message: 307 From: Janet Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Novice dealing with ichthyophthirius (ick) for the first time
Group: AquaticLife Message: 308 From: Janet Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: ATTN JIM
Group: AquaticLife Message: 309 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Lazy Fry Mom Report
Group: AquaticLife Message: 310 From: Sarah Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: Re: ATTN JIM
Group: AquaticLife Message: 311 From: schuyler sloane Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: hi everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 312 From: eradiabashir Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: General advice to a newbie please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 313 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 314 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 315 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 316 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 317 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 318 From: Bolong78 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: HI
Group: AquaticLife Message: 319 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 320 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 321 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Cruelty free purchases
Group: AquaticLife Message: 322 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 323 From: eradiabashir Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Another newbie question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 324 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 325 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 326 From: sledge4cp Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: ATTN JIM
Group: AquaticLife Message: 327 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 328 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 329 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 330 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 331 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Lawsuit seeks to dim glowing fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 332 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Re: Lawsuit seeks to dim glowing fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 333 From: Sarah Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: More Babies!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 334 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 335 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 336 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Re: More Babies!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 337 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Female angel from my breeding pair needs help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 338 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Free of Toxins???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 339 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Re: Free of Toxins???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 340 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Re: Free of Toxins???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 341 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Re: Free of Toxins???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 342 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Re: Free of Toxins???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 343 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/17/2004
Subject: Another update to my tank problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 344 From: Mindy Enochs Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: So new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 345 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Sick Fish?? HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 346 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: cleaning a filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 347 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: So new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 348 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: So new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 349 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: So new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 350 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Fry care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 351 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: So new/live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 352 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish?? HELP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 353 From: nickfronk13 Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: help controling ammonia
Group: AquaticLife Message: 354 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: A great link.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 355 From: Jonathan Short Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: male or female?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 356 From: Jonathan Short Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Hi Everyone :o)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 357 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: male or female?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 358 From: Sarah Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: male or female?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 359 From: tzuhouse Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 360 From: bbbuns2 Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: molly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 361 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: male or female?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 362 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 363 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 364 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 365 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 366 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 367 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 368 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 369 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 370 From: tzuhouse Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: my tank - Attn: Shawn
Group: AquaticLife Message: 371 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: my tank - Attn: Shawn
Group: AquaticLife Message: 372 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 373 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 374 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Albino Bushy Nose Pleco (bristlenose)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 376 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: my tank - Attn: Shawn
Group: AquaticLife Message: 377 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 378 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 379 From: A.G. SPANOS Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: new member needs help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 380 From: jshkb Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Two ?'s: Bio-Wheel and Easy Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 381 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: new member needs help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 382 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: Two ?'s: Bio-Wheel and Easy Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 383 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: Two ?'s: Bio-Wheel and Easy Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 384 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 385 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: Albino Bushy Nose Pleco (bristlenose)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 386 From: Jen Clower-Brown Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: Albino Bushy Nose Pleco (bristlenose)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 387 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: DIY Breeding Set Ups
Group: AquaticLife Message: 388 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: DIY Breeding Set Ups
Group: AquaticLife Message: 389 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: New ~ Picture of the Week
Group: AquaticLife Message: 390 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: DIY Breeding Set Ups/Aaron
Group: AquaticLife Message: 391 From: schuyler sloane Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 392 From: A.G. SPANOS Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: new member needs help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 393 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 394 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 395 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 396 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 397 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 398 From: jshkb Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: ? Plants on this group's Homepage
Group: AquaticLife Message: 399 From: Sarah Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: ? Plants on this group's Homepage
Group: AquaticLife Message: 400 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: ? Plants on this group's Homepage
Group: AquaticLife Message: 401 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: new member needs help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 402 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 403 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: ? Plants on this group's Homepage
Group: AquaticLife Message: 404 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 405 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 406 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 407 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 408 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 409 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 410 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 411 From: Jonathan Short Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 412 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 413 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 414 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 415 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 416 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: More newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 417 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 418 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 419 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 420 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 421 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 422 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 423 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 424 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 425 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 426 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 427 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 428 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 429 From: Cyndy Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 430 From: Cyndy Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Another question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 431 From: Anatoli Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: plants problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 432 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: Mary/Ph
Group: AquaticLife Message: 433 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Jonny
Group: AquaticLife Message: 434 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: baking soda
Group: AquaticLife Message: 435 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 436 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 437 From: Anatoli Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 438 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/24/2004
Subject: A new member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 439 From: Jen Clower-Brown Date: 1/24/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 440 From: Anatoli Date: 1/24/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 441 From: Tom Reagin Date: 1/24/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 84 Another question from Cindy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 442 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 443 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 444 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: GLOFISH link
Group: AquaticLife Message: 445 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: GLOFISH link
Group: AquaticLife Message: 446 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 447 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 448 From: corundum_dogs Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: new to list and question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 449 From: daniel_roachus Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 450 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 451 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: new to list and question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 452 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: fungus on black mollie's lips
Group: AquaticLife Message: 453 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: fungal stuff revisited
Group: AquaticLife Message: 454 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: fungal stuff revisited
Group: AquaticLife Message: 455 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Snails-love em or hate em?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 456 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: Snails-love em or hate em?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 457 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 458 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 459 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 460 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 461 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 462 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: Snails-love em or hate em?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 463 From: Cyndy Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 84 Another question from Cindy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 464 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: Snails-love em or hate em?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 465 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 466 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Flourite
Group: AquaticLife Message: 467 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 468 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Re: Flourite
Group: AquaticLife Message: 469 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: Platys?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 470 From: Lavenderz9@aol.com Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Important question!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 471 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: Important question!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 472 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: Important question!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 473 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: Important question!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 474 From: Tom Reagin Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 86
Group: AquaticLife Message: 475 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: fungal stuff revisited
Group: AquaticLife Message: 476 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 477 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 478 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 479 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: do tails regenerate??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 480 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: do tails regenerate??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 481 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: do tails regenerate??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 482 From: nickfronk13 Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: cloudy fish tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 483 From: Kelly Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Attn: Aaron!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 484 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: cloudy fish tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 485 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: Important question!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 486 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 487 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: another question from Erin
Group: AquaticLife Message: 488 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: cloudy fish tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 489 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: Important question!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 490 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 491 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 492 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 493 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 494 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 495 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 496 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 497 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 498 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: another question from Erin
Group: AquaticLife Message: 499 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 500 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 501 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 502 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 503 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 504 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] new member :) [ JANET ]
Group: AquaticLife Message: 505 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: another question from Erin
Group: AquaticLife Message: 506 From: Cyndy Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Do any of you have problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 507 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: new member :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 508 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 509 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 510 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 511 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 512 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 513 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 514 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 515 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 516 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 517 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: good link for common sense info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 518 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 519 From: Moon Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 89
Group: AquaticLife Message: 520 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 521 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 522 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 523 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 524 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 525 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Do any of you have problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 526 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Do any of you have problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 527 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Do any of you have problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 528 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 529 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 530 From: crazyj3262 Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 531 From: Cyndy Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Do any of you have problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 532 From: crazyj3262 Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Salt in Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 533 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 534 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 535 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re: algae eaters OUTDOOR PONDS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 536 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: algae eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 537 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 89
Group: AquaticLife Message: 538 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Salted Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 539 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Salinity
Group: AquaticLife Message: 540 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/27/2004
Subject: Use and Application of Salt in Aquaculture
Group: AquaticLife Message: 543 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Salinity levels of 'freshwater' tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 544 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: Attn: Aaron!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 545 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: I apologize for the duplicates, not all messages are getting posted
Group: AquaticLife Message: 546 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: I WANT BABIES! lol
Group: AquaticLife Message: 547 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: I WANT BABIES! lol
Group: AquaticLife Message: 548 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: Attn: Aaron!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 549 From: Jonathan Short Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 550 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: Attn: Aaron!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 551 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 552 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 553 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 554 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Green Swordtail?? and a few more Q's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 555 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 556 From: Sarah Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: Green Swordtail?? and a few more Q's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 557 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 558 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 559 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: babies/Barry White
Group: AquaticLife Message: 560 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 561 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 562 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 563 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 564 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 565 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 566 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 567 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 568 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 569 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 570 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 571 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 572 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 573 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 574 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 575 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 576 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: saving water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 577 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 578 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 579 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 580 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 581 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 582 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 583 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 584 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 585 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 586 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 587 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: saving water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 588 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 589 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 590 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 591 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 592 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 593 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 594 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 595 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 596 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 597 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 598 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 599 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 600 From: Chris Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 601 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 602 From: Chris Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 603 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: Angelfish question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 604 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 605 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 606 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/29/2004
Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 607 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: saving water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 608 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 609 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: saving water?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 610 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 611 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 612 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 613 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: yay!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 614 From: The Dude Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: My New Tank!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 615 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 616 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 617 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: yay!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 618 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 619 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 620 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Fun with driftwood... ugh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 621 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: Fun with driftwood... ugh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 622 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: yay!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 623 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 624 From: colleen and theresa Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: our question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 625 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: Fun with driftwood... ugh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 626 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 627 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: our question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 628 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 629 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 630 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: our question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 631 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 632 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 633 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 634 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 635 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: Fun with driftwood... ugh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 636 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 637 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 638 From: Chris Date: 1/31/2004
Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 639 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/31/2004
Subject: Re: our question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 640 From: Cyndy Date: 1/31/2004
Subject: Piping
Group: AquaticLife Message: 641 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2004
Subject: Re: our question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 642 From: Chris Date: 2/1/2004
Subject: Re: Piping
Group: AquaticLife Message: 643 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/1/2004
Subject: Ornament
Group: AquaticLife Message: 644 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/1/2004
Subject: Re: Ornament
Group: AquaticLife Message: 645 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/2/2004
Subject: Dwarf Albino Frogs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 646 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/2/2004
Subject: we've got babies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 647 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/2/2004
Subject: Re: we've got babies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 648 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/2/2004
Subject: Re: we've got babies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 649 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 2/2/2004
Subject: Re: Dwarf Albino Frogs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 650 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/2/2004
Subject: Re: we've got babies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 651 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/2/2004
Subject: Help ASAP with new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 652 From: Chris Date: 2/2/2004
Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 653 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: 20Gal Breeding Tank - Ur opinion(s) & comment(s) !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 654 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
Group: AquaticLife Message: 655 From: Short Jonathan Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 656 From: Sarah Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: Re: we've got babies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 657 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 658 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 659 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 660 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 661 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: the first meeting of the Northeast Philadelphia Aquarium Society, 2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 662 From: Chris Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 663 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/3/2004
Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 664 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 665 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish? Getting more confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 666 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish? Getting more confused
Group: AquaticLife Message: 667 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 668 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 669 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 670 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 671 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 672 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 673 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 674 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 675 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 676 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 677 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 678 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 679 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 680 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 681 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 682 From: dolph72.geo Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: To Mary and her Platies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 683 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 684 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 685 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/4/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 686 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/5/2004
Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
Group: AquaticLife Message: 687 From: Jobin Hume Date: 2/5/2004
Subject: I am so glad I'm not the only one....and a few questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 688 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 2/5/2004
Subject: Japanese Betta information needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 689 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 2/5/2004
Subject: Japanese Betta information needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 690 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/5/2004
Subject: Re: I am so glad I'm not the only one....and a few questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 691 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2004
Subject: Re: I am so glad I'm not the only one....and a few questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 692 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/5/2004
Subject: ok, now i have a question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 693 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/5/2004
Subject: Re: ok, now i have a question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 694 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/5/2004
Subject: Re: ok, now i have a question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 695 From: dolph72.geo Date: 2/6/2004
Subject: To Jobin and his platies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 696 From: dolph72.geo Date: 2/6/2004
Subject: To amalthea and her new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 697 From: Jobin Hume Date: 2/6/2004
Subject: Re: To Jobin and his platies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 698 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/6/2004
Subject: temperature spike!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 699 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/6/2004
Subject: Re: temperature spike!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 700 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/6/2004
Subject: Re: temperature spike!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 701 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2004
Subject: Re: temperature spike!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 702 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/6/2004
Subject: Re: temperature spike!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 703 From: Derek Truman Date: 2/7/2004
Subject: What should I put in my new 10 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 704 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/8/2004
Subject: Re: temperature spike!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 705 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/8/2004
Subject: Re: What should I put in my new 10 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 706 From: Short Jonathan Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 707 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 708 From: Sarah Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 709 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: I'm starting to think I'm a "fish killer" ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 710 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: Re: I'm starting to think I'm a "fish killer" ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 711 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: Re: I'm starting to think I'm a "fish killer" ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 712 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: Re: I'm starting to think I'm a"fish killer" ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 713 From: scoutboywithshortbusdog Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 714 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 715 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/9/2004
Subject: Re: I'm starting to think I'm a"fish killer" ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 716 From: daniel_roachus Date: 2/10/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 717 From: Short Jonathan Date: 2/10/2004
Subject: Erin's Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 718 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/10/2004
Subject: Re: Erin's Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 719 From: mvalderaz.geo Date: 2/10/2004
Subject: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 720 From: Derek Truman Date: 2/10/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 721 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/10/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 722 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/10/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 723 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/10/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 724 From: daniel_roachus Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 725 From: Short Jonathan Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Marine?!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 726 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 727 From: Jonathan Short Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 728 From: John Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 729 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Cray fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 730 From: John Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Cray fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 731 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Cray fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 732 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: New file uploaded to FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 733 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 734 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 735 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Cray fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 736 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: death
Group: AquaticLife Message: 737 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: HELP ASAP - dying fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 738 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Another question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 739 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 740 From: Sarah Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 741 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: how many danios
Group: AquaticLife Message: 742 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 743 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 744 From: derwag Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Filtration type and brand
Group: AquaticLife Message: 745 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Filtration type and brand
Group: AquaticLife Message: 746 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Filtration type and brand
Group: AquaticLife Message: 747 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Filtration type and brand
Group: AquaticLife Message: 748 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 749 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 750 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 751 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 752 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 753 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 754 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 755 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 756 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: death
Group: AquaticLife Message: 757 From: Kari Vigneau Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 758 From: derwag Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Why both a canister and power filter?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 759 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Why both a canister and power filter?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 760 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 761 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 762 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 763 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 764 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 765 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 766 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 767 From: John Date: 2/12/2004
Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 768 From: John Date: 2/12/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 769 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/12/2004
Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 770 From: John Date: 2/12/2004
Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 771 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/12/2004
Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
Group: AquaticLife Message: 772 From: Nimish Date: 2/12/2004
Subject: Re: Filtration type and brand
Group: AquaticLife Message: 773 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 774 From: dtmergl Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: quick hello/intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 775 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Re: quick hello/intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 776 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 777 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Fake plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 778 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Re: Fake plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 779 From: Sarah Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Re: Fake plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 780 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 781 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Happy to announce......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 782 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 783 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/13/2004
Subject: Re: Happy to announce......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 784 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: Happy to announce......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 785 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: Fake plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 786 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: Happy to announce......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 787 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: Happy to announce......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 788 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: Happy to announce......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 789 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: Fake plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 790 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: Fake plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 791 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: missing eyes.........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 792 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 793 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 794 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2004
Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 795 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 796 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 797 From: Anatoli Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: tail paralized????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 798 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: tail paralized????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 799 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Update on the tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 800 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: Fake plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 801 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: Update on the tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 802 From: better_bettas Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Site Newly Renovated !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 803 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: Update on the tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 804 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: Update on the tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 805 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: Update on the tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 806 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: Update on the tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 807 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: Update on the tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 808 From: Ken Grolle Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: A question for plant people
Group: AquaticLife Message: 809 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2004
Subject: Re: A question for plant people
Group: AquaticLife Message: 810 From: John Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 811 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Chichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 812 From: John Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: Chichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 813 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: Chichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 814 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 815 From: John Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 816 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 817 From: Sarah Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 818 From: Sarah Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: Update on the tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 819 From: Dom Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 820 From: Dom Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Re: Chichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 821 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: nitrite and ammonia levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 822 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 2/16/2004
Subject: Baby Guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 823 From: Dom Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 824 From: Kari Vigneau Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 825 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 826 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: Re: Chichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 827 From: John Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: Re: Chichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 828 From: tbittick Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 829 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 830 From: Mejim6@aol.com Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 831 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 832 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 833 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: should I isolate my pregnant females?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 834 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/17/2004
Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 835 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 836 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 837 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 838 From: John Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 839 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 840 From: amalthea x Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 841 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 842 From: amalthea x Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 843 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 844 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 845 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 846 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 847 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 848 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 849 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 850 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 851 From: Mejim6@aol.com Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 852 From: Jobin Hume Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Question re: powder blue gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 853 From: samantha_e67 Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 854 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 855 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Question re: powder blue gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 856 From: dolph72.geo Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 857 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question re: powder blue gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 858 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/18/2004
Subject: stress zyme or cycle?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 859 From: John Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 860 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: freshwater clams need info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 861 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: what kind of fish is that? on the main group page ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 862 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: what kind of fish is that? on the main group page ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 863 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: stress zyme or cycle?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 864 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 865 From: daniel_roachus Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 866 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 867 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Question re: powder blue gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 868 From: John Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 869 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 870 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 871 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 872 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 873 From: samantha_e67 Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 874 From: Ken Grolle Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 875 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 876 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 877 From: amalthea x Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 878 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 879 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 880 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 881 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 882 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 883 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/19/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 884 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 885 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 886 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 887 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: plant example
Group: AquaticLife Message: 888 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: plant example
Group: AquaticLife Message: 889 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: plant example
Group: AquaticLife Message: 890 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: plant example - Correction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 891 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 892 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 893 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 894 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: what about backgrounds?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 895 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 896 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Biozyme
Group: AquaticLife Message: 897 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Biospira
Group: AquaticLife Message: 898 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: strangest readings on tanks need advice or thoughts
Group: AquaticLife Message: 899 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 900 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 901 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 902 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 903 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 904 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 905 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/20/2004
Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 906 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 907 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 908 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Pirahna in Thames
Group: AquaticLife Message: 909 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: filter placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 910 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: filter placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 911 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: filter placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 912 From: Melinda Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: aqaurium center brace question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 913 From: Melinda Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: aquarium center bracket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 914 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 915 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: heater placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 916 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: heater placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 917 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: heater placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 918 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: heater placement
Group: AquaticLife Message: 919 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 920 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 921 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 922 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 923 From: Melinda Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 924 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 925 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: we're walking...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 926 From: Tim Walker Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: we're walking...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 927 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: we're walking...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 928 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 929 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/21/2004
Subject: Re: strangest readings on tanks need advice or thoughts
Group: AquaticLife Message: 930 From: Chris Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Update and Question.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 931 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: we're walking...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 932 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: strangest readings on tanks need advice or thoughts
Group: AquaticLife Message: 933 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Update and Question.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 934 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Update and Question.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 935 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: Update and Question.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 936 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 937 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/22/2004
Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 938 From: John Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 939 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: stress coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 940 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: stress coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 941 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: freshwater stingray ? anyone have one or info on one ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 942 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: stress coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 943 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater stingray ? anyone have one or info on one ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 944 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: stress coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 945 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/23/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater stingray ? anyone have one or info on one ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 946 From: Nazzie Date: 2/24/2004
Subject: Hi everybody!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 947 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/24/2004
Subject: well...didn;t get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 948 From: Nazzie Date: 2/24/2004
Subject: Plecostamus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 949 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/24/2004
Subject: Re: well...didn;t get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 950 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/24/2004
Subject: Re: well...didn;t get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 951 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/24/2004
Subject: Re: well...didn;t get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 952 From: Basil Date: 2/25/2004
Subject: New fish in the tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 953 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/25/2004
Subject: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 954 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/25/2004
Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 955 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/25/2004
Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 956 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 2/25/2004
Subject: Group is ranked in the Top 10!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 957 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 958 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 959 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 960 From: John Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: black patches
Group: AquaticLife Message: 961 From: derwag Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: Cichlids in "Marine" Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 962 From: traceyhanson Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: help needed with Sacem filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 963 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: Re: help needed with Sacem filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 964 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: Re: help needed with Sacem filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 965 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: Re: help needed with Sacem filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 966 From: Ryan Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: I'm new, anyone want to trade?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 967 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: Re: I'm new, anyone want to trade?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 968 From: Miss Denise Date: 2/26/2004
Subject: Re: I'm new, anyone want to trade?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 969 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/27/2004
Subject: Re: help needed with Sacem filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 970 From: Ryan Date: 2/27/2004
Subject: Re: I'm new, anyone want to trade?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 971 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/27/2004
Subject: Bio Wheel Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 972 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/27/2004
Subject: Re: Bio Wheel Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 973 From: amalthea x Date: 2/27/2004
Subject: Re: Bio Wheel Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 974 From: Sarah Date: 2/28/2004
Subject: DYING ANGEL....HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 975 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/28/2004
Subject: Re: DYING ANGEL....HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 976 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/28/2004
Subject: Re: DYING ANGEL....HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 977 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 2/28/2004
Subject: Mystery Shrimp ~ Can You Please Identify
Group: AquaticLife Message: 978 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 2/28/2004
Subject: Baby brine shrimp ???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 979 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/28/2004
Subject: Re: Baby brine shrimp ???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 980 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/28/2004
Subject: Re: DYING ANGEL....HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 981 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 2/28/2004
Subject: Re: Baby brine shrimp ???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 982 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/28/2004
Subject: Got two new angelfish...... one is acting funny.... any help ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 983 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/29/2004
Subject: Re: Got two new angelfish...... one is acting funny.... any help ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 984 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/29/2004
Subject: Re: Got two new angelfish...... one is acting funny.... any help ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 985 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/29/2004
Subject: Re: Baby brine shrimp ???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 986 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/29/2004
Subject: Re: Got two new angelfish...... one is acting funny.... any help ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 987 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 2/29/2004
Subject: Re: Baby brine shrimp ???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 988 From: schuyler sloane Date: 2/29/2004
Subject: need help asap
Group: AquaticLife Message: 989 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/29/2004
Subject: Re: need help asap
Group: AquaticLife Message: 990 From: Walter Cain Date: 2/29/2004
Subject: Re: need help asap
Group: AquaticLife Message: 991 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: need help asap
Group: AquaticLife Message: 992 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: need help asap
Group: AquaticLife Message: 993 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: need help asap
Group: AquaticLife Message: 994 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Your not going to believe what we bought today..... A 150 gallon ta
Group: AquaticLife Message: 995 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 996 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: literature
Group: AquaticLife Message: 997 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 998 From: Mejim6@aol.com Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 999 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1000 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: heater back up
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1001 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1002 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1003 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1004 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1005 From: mcmikemc59 Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1006 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1007 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1008 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: literature
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1009 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Gravel cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1010 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1011 From: Sarah Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Gloden Danio Problems!!!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1012 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Gravel cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1013 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Gloden Danio Problems!!!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1014 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: MarineLand Kleen Sweep
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1015 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: unsubcribe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1016 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1017 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
Subject: Re: Gloden Danio Problems!!!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1018 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: Gravel cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1019 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: MarineLand Kleen Sweep
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1020 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: unsubcribe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1021 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: unsubcribe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1022 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: unsubcribe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1023 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: unsubcribe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1024 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Which one?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1025 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1026 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1027 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1028 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1029 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1030 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: Which one?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1031 From: Michael Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: heater back up
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1032 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: heater back up
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1033 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1034 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1035 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1036 From: Michael Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: heater back up
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1037 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1038 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/2/2004
Subject: Re: heater back up
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1039 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1040 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1041 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1042 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1043 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1044 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1045 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1046 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1047 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1048 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1049 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1050 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1051 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: water change
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1052 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1053 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1054 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1055 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1056 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1057 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1058 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1059 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1060 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1061 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1062 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1063 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1064 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1065 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1066 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1067 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1068 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1069 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Flora Boost
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1070 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: Flora Boost
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1071 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/3/2004
Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1072 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1073 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1074 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1075 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1076 From: tbittick Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: once and for all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1077 From: tbittick Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1078 From: tbittick Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1079 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1080 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1081 From: tbittick Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1082 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: nitrite levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1083 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1084 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1085 From: Victoria Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1086 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Growing plants in aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1087 From: Nicholas Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Think Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1088 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1089 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Growing plants in aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1090 From: amalthea x Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Growing plants in aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1091 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1092 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Growing plants in aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1093 From: Victoria Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1094 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1095 From: chris3_16@yahoo.com Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Sharks, rays, plecos, and inverts in the same tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1096 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: snail keeps have a question....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1097 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Sharks, rays, plecos, and inverts in the same tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1098 From: Victoria Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1099 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: filter life
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1100 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: filter life, fwiw
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1101 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: filter life
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1102 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: filter life
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1103 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/4/2004
Subject: Re: filter life
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1104 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: Re: filter life
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1105 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: Re: filter life
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1106 From: piaba Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: Sharks, rays, plecos, and inverts in a tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1107 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/5/2004
Subject: Re: snail keeps have a question....freedombell2002
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1108 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sharks, rays, plecos, and inverts in the same tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1109 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: Think Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1110 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Plants turning clear?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1111 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: Plants turning clear?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1112 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: Plants turning clear?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1113 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: well sad news Butter died :(
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1114 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/6/2004
Subject: Re: Plants turning clear?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1115 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: Re: well sad news Butter died :(
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1116 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: sorry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1117 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1118 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: Re: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1119 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/7/2004
Subject: Re: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1120 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1121 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1122 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1123 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1124 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1125 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: film on water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1126 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1127 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1128 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1129 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1130 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1131 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1132 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1133 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1134 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1135 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1136 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1137 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1138 From: amalthea x Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1139 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1140 From: amalthea x Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1141 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1142 From: amalthea x Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1143 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1144 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1145 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1146 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: film on water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1147 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1148 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Mollies and guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1149 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies and guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1150 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies and guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1151 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies and guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1152 From: Walter Cain Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies and guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1153 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: timers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1154 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: added bacteria
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1155 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: timers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1156 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: timers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1157 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: timers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1158 From: Cindy Hartman Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1159 From: klooster8 Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: New member seeks info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1160 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: ordering online
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1161 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Online ordering
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1162 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1163 From: Walter Cain Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: Re: ordering online
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1164 From: coronasudsdude Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: 110 Gal. w/5 - 5" Black & Silver Fat Belly Irredescent Sharks!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1165 From: r_ohle Date: 3/8/2004
Subject: lighting photoperiod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1166 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: timers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1167 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: added bacteria
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1168 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1169 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: 110 Gal. w/5 - 5" Black & Silver Fat Belly Irredescent Sharks!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1170 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1171 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1172 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: ordering online
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1173 From: tbittick Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: added bacteria
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1174 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: added bacteria
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1175 From: tbittick Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: added bacteria
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1176 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1177 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1178 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Algone.com - Aquarium Substrate and Aquarium Gravel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1179 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: added bacteria
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1180 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1181 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: New member seeks info
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1182 From: John Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1183 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1184 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1185 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1186 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1187 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1188 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1189 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1190 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1191 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1192 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Different fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1193 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1194 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "PosterTank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1195 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1196 From: mike mather Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: ordering online
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1197 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Photos from 1996 of now gone 75 Goldfish tank, and current tank a
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1198 From: r_ohle Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1199 From: r_ohle Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1200 From: r_ohle Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1201 From: r_ohle Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: test kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1202 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1203 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: post 1197-addendum
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1204 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1205 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Whisper 300
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1206 From: tbittick Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: plant update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1207 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Re: ordering online
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1208 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Re: Different fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1209 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Re: Different fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1210 From: hotflash Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: new to the list with question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1211 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Re: new to the list with question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1212 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: firebelly toads
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1213 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Uploaded some pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1214 From: ricboese911 Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: diy co2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1215 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: sunday, sunday
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1216 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/10/2004
Subject: Re: sunday, sunday
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1217 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Re: Uploaded some pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1218 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Re: diy co2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1219 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Re: Uploaded some pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1220 From: Nicholas Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Think Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1221 From: Nicholas Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Freshwater crabs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1222 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Re: Think Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1223 From: John Clothier Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Re: Think Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1224 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Several points, please don't be offended.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1225 From: tbittick Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: elephantnose
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1226 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Re: elephantnose
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1227 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Re: ATTN ROB!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1228 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: More Boesmani Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1229 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Re: elephantnose
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1230 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Re: Several points, please don't be offended.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1231 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Different fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1232 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: DIY Co2 Reactor
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1233 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/11/2004
Subject: Eheim 2026
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1234 From: Nimish Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Eheim 2026
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1235 From: Cyndy Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Aquabid?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1236 From: Cyndy Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Aquabid?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1237 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Eheim 2026
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1238 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Eheim 2026
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1239 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 144
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1240 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 144
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1241 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Several points, please don't be offended.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1242 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Several points, please don't be offended.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1243 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Several points, please don't be offended.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1244 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Buffalo, NY area. New Tanganykans
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1245 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: New critters!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1246 From: Rob Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Join my new aquarium group!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1247 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Killifish? help please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1248 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1249 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/12/2004
Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1250 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1251 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1252 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1253 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: HELP Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1254 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1255 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1256 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1257 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Poll
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1258 From: Maelin Gong Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: New here
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1259 From: Maelin Gong Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: One more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1260 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Re: One more
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1261 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Our new baby is home!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1262 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1263 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/13/2004
Subject: Playing Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1264 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Re: Playing Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1265 From: mwilliams115 Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: clam question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1266 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1267 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Bouncing email
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1268 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Re: Playing Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1269 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: first fish, nervous dad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1270 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Re: first fish, nervous dad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1271 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1272 From: klooster8 Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: convicts and eggs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1273 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Re: convicts and eggs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1274 From: Ken Grolle Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Strange Fish Disease
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1275 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Newbie - black slime algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1276 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: 2nd Round of Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1277 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Pregnant Gourmi?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1278 From: mike mather Date: 3/14/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie - black slime algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1279 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: Pregnant Gourmi?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1280 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1281 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: 2nd Round of Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1282 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: 2nd Round of Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1283 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: Playing Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1284 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: Playing Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1285 From: Lynda Traylor Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1286 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: first fish, nervous dad
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1287 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1288 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1289 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie - black slime algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1290 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: Playing Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1291 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie - black slime algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1292 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Oh well... Cory is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1293 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Guppy Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1294 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: Playing Taps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1295 From: Marie Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: New member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1296 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1297 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1298 From: Kenneth Hall Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: cleaning tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1299 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1300 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1301 From: Jeanne Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: New here/questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1302 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1303 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1304 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1305 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: cleaning calcium/lime deposits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1306 From: mike mather Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1307 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1308 From: Marie Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1309 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/15/2004
Subject: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1310 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie - black slime algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1312 From: Letha S Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Daily Digest
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1313 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Oh well... Cory is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1314 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Oh well... Cory is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1315 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1316 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Daily Digest
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1317 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1318 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: New member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1319 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1320 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning calcium/lime deposits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1321 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Daily Digest
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1322 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Daily Digest
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1323 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers toSTOP??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1324 From: Short Jonathan Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Snails!!! Grrrrrrr
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1325 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1326 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Snails!!! Grrrrrrr
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1327 From: tbittick Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 148
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1328 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1329 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: All bala sharks go to heaven
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1330 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Snails!!! Grrrrrrr
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1331 From: Julie Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 148
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1332 From: Julie Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: newbie and apology
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1333 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: plant question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1334 From: Kenneth Hall Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1335 From: Kenneth Hall Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning calcium/lime deposits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1336 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning calcium/lime deposits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1337 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1338 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1339 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1340 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1341 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1342 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1343 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1344 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1345 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Another issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1346 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/16/2004
Subject: Re: Another issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1347 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/17/2004
Subject: Re: Another issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1348 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/17/2004
Subject: Re: newbie and apology
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1349 From: tbittick Date: 3/17/2004
Subject: Re: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1350 From: tbittick Date: 3/17/2004
Subject: Re: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1351 From: John Clothier Date: 3/17/2004
Subject: Help with First Planted Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1352 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/17/2004
Subject: Re: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1353 From: Julie Date: 3/17/2004
Subject: Re: newbie and apology
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1354 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/17/2004
Subject: what a difference a day makes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1355 From: klooster8 Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Black Ghost Question PLEASE RESPOND
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1356 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: Help with First Planted Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1357 From: John Clothier Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: Help with First Planted Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1358 From: tbittick Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Black Phantoms
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1359 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 148
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1360 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: newbie and apology
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1361 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: plant question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1362 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1363 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: more new fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1364 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: Another issue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1365 From: Rob Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: hi there !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1366 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Question PLEASE RESPOND
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1367 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: hi there !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1368 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: hi there !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1369 From: klooster8 Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Black Ghost
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1370 From: mtm6583 Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1371 From: Rob Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: hi there !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1372 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Question PLEASE RESPOND
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1373 From: nikasmomma2001 Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1374 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1375 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/18/2004
Subject: DIY Killer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1376 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: DIY Killer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1377 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1378 From: stryker lighting Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: new to the group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1379 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: DIY Killer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1380 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: DIY Killer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1381 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: Black Ghost
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1382 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: hi there !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1383 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1384 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1385 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1386 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: DIY Killer?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1387 From: magnolia_busse Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1388 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1389 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1390 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1391 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1392 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1393 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1394 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1395 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1396 From: Lesley Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1397 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1398 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1399 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1400 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1401 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/19/2004
Subject: Re: Black Ghost
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1402 From: klooster8 Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Death to Black Ghost
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1403 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1404 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1405 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: fuzzy brown algae?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1406 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1407 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1408 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1409 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Test results are in
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1410 From: Jonathan Short Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: dropsy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1411 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Re: dropsy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1412 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Re: dropsy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1413 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Fuzzy fuzzy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1414 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/20/2004
Subject: Re: Fuzzy fuzzy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1415 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1416 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1417 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Test results are in
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1418 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1419 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Test results are in
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1420 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Proper O2 Levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1421 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1422 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Opinion granted
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1423 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Opinion granted
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1424 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Opinion granted
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1425 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Opinion granted
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1426 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Proper O2 Levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1427 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Opinion granted
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1428 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/21/2004
Subject: Re: Proper O2 Levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1429 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: Proper O2 Levels
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1430 From: tbittick Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1431 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1432 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1433 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: "salty" smell??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1434 From: dawnmvo Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Hello I am new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1435 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1436 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1437 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1438 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1439 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1440 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1441 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/22/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1442 From: John Clothier Date: 3/23/2004
Subject: Re: Hello I am new
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1443 From: John Clothier Date: 3/23/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1444 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/23/2004
Subject: Everyone is picking on my angels!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1445 From: reesee_ii Date: 3/23/2004
Subject: Mudskippers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1446 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 3/23/2004
Subject: cherry barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1447 From: Peggy Date: 3/23/2004
Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1448 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/23/2004
Subject: Gourmi's?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1449 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/23/2004
Subject: Re: cherry barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1450 From: ricboese911 Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: needing help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1451 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: How can I tell when mama fish is ready?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1452 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1453 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: newbie and apology
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1454 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1455 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1456 From: Sarah Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1457 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1458 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1459 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1460 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1461 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1462 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Snail problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1463 From: Peggy Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1464 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Snail problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1465 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1466 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Snail problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1467 From: rockypeeps2001 Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Black Ghost Knifefish 911!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1468 From: dave Date: 3/24/2004
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knifefish 911!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1469 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knifefish 911!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1470 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1471 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: How can I tell when mama fish is ready?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1472 From: Julie Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: newbie and apology
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1473 From: Julie Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: newbie and apology
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1474 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: opinion question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1475 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1476 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1477 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Free Starter Kits for Teachers! ( was - Re: any way to get livebear
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1478 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Free Starter Kits for Teachers! ( was - Re: any way to get livebear
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1479 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1480 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: Re: needing help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1481 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/25/2004
Subject: platy fry available
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1482 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/26/2004
Subject: mollie fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1483 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/26/2004
Subject: Re: Free Starter Kits for Teachers! ( was - Re: any way to get live
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1484 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/26/2004
Subject: Re: mollie fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1485 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 3/26/2004
Subject: sailfin molly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1486 From: Peggy Date: 3/26/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1487 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/26/2004
Subject: Fry Available
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1488 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: Re: sailfin molly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1489 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1490 From: Peggy Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1491 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1492 From: *~* Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: first post and my first flat worm problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1493 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: Poll results for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1494 From: wolfhunterco Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: NEW FRESHWATER TROPICAL AQUARIUM WEB SITE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1495 From: Peggy Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1496 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1497 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/27/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1498 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1499 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Help? Rust?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1500 From: Peggy Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1501 From: Julie Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Help? Rust?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1502 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Cory questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1503 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1504 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1505 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1506 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1507 From: Jonathan Short Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: would they mix?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1508 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1509 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: would they mix?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1510 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: would they mix?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1511 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: would they mix?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1512 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: would they mix?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1513 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: duplicate emails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1514 From: Randy H Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1516 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1517 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1518 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: books
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1519 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: bottom feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1520 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Chaetostoma cf. thomsoni, A Chance Spawning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1521 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Species Summary
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1522 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: What are these?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1523 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: Help? Rust?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1524 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: NEW FRESHWATER TROPICAL AQUARIUM WEB SITE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1525 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: What are these?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1526 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Re: What are these?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1527 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
Subject: Algone.com - Worms in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1528 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: Algone.com - Worms in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1529 From: Jonathan Short Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: would they mix?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1530 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: Algone.com - Worms in the Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1531 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1532 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1533 From: vivaclint Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Silver Arowana for Sale
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1534 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: What are these? asking about needle fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1535 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: Cory questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1536 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1537 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: bottom feeders
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1538 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: What are these?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1539 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: What are these?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1540 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1541 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: What are these? asking about needle fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1542 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: bottom feeders/kuhlis
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1543 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: bottom feeders/kuhlis
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1544 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/29/2004
Subject: Re: bottom feeders/kuhlis
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1545 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1546 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1547 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: would they mix?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1548 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: Opinion on cleaning aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1549 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: HELP........ Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1550 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: Help? Rust?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1551 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: first post and my first flat worm problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1552 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: What are these?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1553 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: Pleco question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1554 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: HELP........ Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1555 From: Rhianna (Annie) Garlough Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: Canister filter recommendations?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1556 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: HELP........ Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1557 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: HELP........ Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1558 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: HELP........ Please!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1559 From: klooster8 Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: convict ate her fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1560 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/30/2004
Subject: Re: convict ate her fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1561 From: Rob Date: 3/31/2004
Subject: hello everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1562 From: Rob Date: 3/31/2004
Subject: Re: convict ate her fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1563 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/31/2004
Subject: Re: convict ate her fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1564 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/31/2004
Subject: Re: hello everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1565 From: Erin Date: 3/31/2004
Subject: gotta go no mail
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1566 From: Peggy Date: 3/31/2004
Subject: Good online sources for live fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1567 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/31/2004
Subject: Re: What are these?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1568 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/31/2004
Subject: Re: online sources for live fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1569 From: Short Jonathan Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Exploding Fish!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1570 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: Exploding Fish!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1571 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: Exploding Fish!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1572 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: Exploding Fish!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1573 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: Exploding Fish!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1574 From: Rob Francois jr Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: hello everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1575 From: Peggy Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: online sources for live fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1576 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Angels Spawning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1577 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: Angels Spawning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1578 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: Angels Spawning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1579 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: Angels Spawning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1581 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/1/2004
Subject: Re: Juice Food
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1582 From: Sarah Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Sexing Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1583 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1584 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1585 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: should i use a undergravel filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1586 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: hello everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1587 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1588 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1589 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1590 From: dozer0011 Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1591 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1592 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1593 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1595 From: Julie Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1596 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/2/2004
Subject: Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1597 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: SPAM (was ~ Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1598 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: I'm a new fish Grandma "hehe" need alittle help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1599 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1600 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1601 From: *~* Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: #$%^&*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1602 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: Re: #$%^&*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1603 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: Re: #$%^&*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1604 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: Re: #$%^&*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1605 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: Re: #$%^&*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1606 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/3/2004
Subject: Re: #$%^&*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1607 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1608 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1609 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1610 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1611 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1612 From: Ryan Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Bacteria Infection?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1613 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1614 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1615 From: r_ohle Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1616 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1617 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1618 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1619 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1620 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Google Search water volume turnover in aquaria
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1621 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Aquarium filtration/air-exchange
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1622 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: FilterBasics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1623 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Thank you, thank you, thank you :)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1624 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1625 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1626 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1627 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Bacterial infection? Dying Guppies, pale pond-snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1628 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1629 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Re: Aquarium filtration/air-exchange
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1630 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1631 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1632 From: *~* Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: my spot treating was #$%^&*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1633 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/5/2004
Subject: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1634 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1635 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1636 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1637 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1638 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1639 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1640 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1641 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1642 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1643 From: Sarah Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1644 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1645 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1646 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1647 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1648 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1649 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1650 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1651 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1652 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1653 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1654 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1655 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Quinine Hydrochloride dosage information?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1656 From: tbittick Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1657 From: Sarah Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1658 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloride dosage information?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1659 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1660 From: tbittick Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1661 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1662 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1663 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1664 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloridedosageinformation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1665 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1666 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1667 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1668 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloridedosageinformation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1669 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloridedosageinformation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1670 From: Rob Francois jr Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1671 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1672 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1673 From: tbittick35 Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1674 From: Fred Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Snail problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1675 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/7/2004
Subject: Re: Snail problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1676 From: dolph72.geo Date: 4/8/2004
Subject: Swim bladder?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1677 From: Fred Date: 4/8/2004
Subject: Crayfish wanted but where do I find them??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1678 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/8/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1679 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/8/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1680 From: tbittick Date: 4/8/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1681 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/8/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1682 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: cucumber for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1683 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: Crayfish wanted but where do I find them??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1684 From: Tony Bittick Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1685 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: veggies for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1686 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1687 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: veggies for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1688 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: no slime coat??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1689 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: no slime coat??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1690 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: veggies for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1691 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: no slime coat??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1692 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1693 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1694 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/9/2004
Subject: Re: Swim bladder?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1695 From: Nancy A. Hanne Date: 4/10/2004
Subject: newbie--ick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1696 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/10/2004
Subject: Re: newbie--ick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1697 From: freddie v Date: 4/10/2004
Subject: Re: Crayfish wanted but where do I find them??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1698 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Tank Still Hasn't Cycled, added new fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1699 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: Tank Still Hasn't Cycled, added new fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1700 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: Crayfish wanted but where do I find them??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1701 From: Lesley Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: algae eater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1702 From: windynyc1 Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1703 From: H Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1704 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Algae Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1705 From: windynyc1 Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1706 From: windynyc1 Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: Algae Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1707 From: Tony Bittick Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1708 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: Algal Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1709 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: anyone in new england want.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1710 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: anyone in new england want.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1711 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: anyone in new england want.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1712 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
Subject: Re: anyone in new england want.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1713 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/12/2004
Subject: Fish Fruit?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1714 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/12/2004
Subject: fish to donate [was~Re: veggies for fish]
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1715 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/12/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1716 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/12/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1717 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/12/2004
Subject: Re: fish to donate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1718 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/12/2004
Subject: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1719 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/12/2004
Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1720 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/12/2004
Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1721 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/12/2004
Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1722 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/13/2004
Subject: Question on General Hardness
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1723 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/13/2004
Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1724 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/13/2004
Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1725 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/13/2004
Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1726 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/13/2004
Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1727 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/13/2004
Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1728 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/13/2004
Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1729 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/13/2004
Subject: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1730 From: fcatacutan Date: 4/14/2004
Subject: Cleaning dirty ornaments ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1731 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/14/2004
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1732 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/14/2004
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1733 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/14/2004
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1734 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/14/2004
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1735 From: Short Jonathan Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: launching oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1736 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: launching oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1737 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: launching oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1738 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1739 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1740 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1741 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1742 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1743 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: any guesses at a mystery fry?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1744 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1745 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1746 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1747 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: launching oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1748 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1749 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1750 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Moldy Eel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1751 From: captaininsane357 Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: Moldy Eel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1752 From: captaininsane357 Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: launching oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1753 From: captaininsane357 Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1754 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: Moldy Eel
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1755 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1756 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1757 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1758 From: Julie Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Swim Bladder Disorder?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1759 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1760 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1761 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1762 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1763 From: Deborah Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: On Line Supplier needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1764 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1765 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1766 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1767 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Re: launching oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1768 From: fcatacutan Date: 4/15/2004
Subject: Question regarding driftwood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1769 From: John Clothier Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: launching oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1770 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: launching oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1771 From: John Clothier Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: launching oscars
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1772 From: Tony Bittick Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1773 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1774 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1775 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1776 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 183
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1777 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1778 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 183
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1779 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Driftwood darkening Aquarium water.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1780 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: driftwood in aquariums (darkening water)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1781 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 183
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1782 From: mike mather Date: 4/16/2004
Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1783 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/17/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 184
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1784 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/17/2004
Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1785 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/17/2004
Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1786 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/17/2004
Subject: chlorine (in sodium hypochlorite/household bleach)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1787 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/17/2004
Subject: breeding question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1788 From: ackieuk2000 Date: 4/17/2004
Subject: hi all
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1789 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/17/2004
Subject: SAE behaviour
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1790 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/17/2004
Subject: Re: SAE behaviour
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1791 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/17/2004
Subject: Re: SAE behaviour
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1792 From: Matt Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1793 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: my 1st live plant
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1794 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Looking for a "good" Saltwater Aquarium group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1795 From: red-eye Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: tiger barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1796 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: tiger barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1797 From: red-eye Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: Cleaning dirty ornaments ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1798 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: Cleaning dirty ornaments ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1799 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: Cleaning dirty ornaments ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1800 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1801 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: Looking for a "good" Saltwater Aquarium group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1802 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1803 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1804 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: tiger barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1805 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/18/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1806 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1807 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1808 From: Matt Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: white stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1809 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1810 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1811 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1812 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1813 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: white stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1814 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1815 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1816 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1817 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 186
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1818 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 186
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1819 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1820 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 186
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1821 From: renee31477 Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1822 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1823 From: keithblackketter Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: new and have a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1824 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: new and have a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1825 From: dindrane13 Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1826 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 186
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1827 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: new and have a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1828 From: Matt Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: white stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1829 From: summertyme1113 Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Betta problem, need help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1830 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: my 1st live plant
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1831 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: tiger barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1832 From: Tony Bittick Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: think I have Ich.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1833 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: sand
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1834 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: sand
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1835 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/19/2004
Subject: Re: white stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1836 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: think I have Ich.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1837 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1838 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1839 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1840 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: white stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1841 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1842 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: think I have Ich.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1843 From: keithblackketter Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: another question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1844 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: another question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1845 From: Matt Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: white stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1846 From: keithblackketter Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: another question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1847 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1848 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1849 From: jamie kathan Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: I think I have ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1850 From: red-eye Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1851 From: red-eye Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: Question regarding driftwood
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1852 From: red-eye Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: tiger barbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1853 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/20/2004
Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1854 From: Chris Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1855 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1856 From: Nancy A. Hanne Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: charcole filter?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1857 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: Re: charcole filter?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1858 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: Re: charcole filter?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1859 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: Re: charcole filter?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1860 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: does real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1861 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: Re: does real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1862 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: Re: does real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1863 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: molly...........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1864 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/21/2004
Subject: Re: molly...........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1865 From: Matt Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: should I or shouldn't I?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1866 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: should I or shouldn't I?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1867 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: molly...........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1868 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1869 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: charcole filter?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1870 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: should I or shouldn't I?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1871 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: charcole filter?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1872 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1873 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1874 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: should I or shouldn't I?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1875 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1876 From: Peggy Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help! :(
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1877 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: Betta problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1878 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1879 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1880 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1881 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1882 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help! :(
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1883 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1884 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1885 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/22/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1886 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1887 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1888 From: tbittick Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1889 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1890 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1891 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1892 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1893 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1894 From: Peggy Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 191
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1895 From: Gary Loheide Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Fish Ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1896 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 191
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1897 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 191
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1898 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1899 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 191
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1900 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Peggy I 'm very sorry for your lost
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1901 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: Fish Ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1902 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: What does this mean (plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1903 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: does real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1904 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2004
Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1905 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1906 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: do real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1907 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1908 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1909 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 193
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1910 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1911 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1912 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1913 From: captaininsane357 Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1914 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1915 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1916 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: gargoyles
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1917 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: gargoyles
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1918 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 193
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1919 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1920 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1921 From: Ahamed Kaize ses@zmsn.com Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1922 From: Ahamed Kaize ses@zmsn.com Date: 4/24/2004
Subject: Making a fish tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1923 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/25/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1924 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/25/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1925 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/25/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1926 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/25/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1927 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/25/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1928 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/25/2004
Subject: Re: gargoyles
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1929 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/25/2004
Subject: Re: gargoyles
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1930 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/26/2004
Subject: possible lfs interview
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1931 From: DeSmilie Date: 4/26/2004
Subject: Re: do real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1932 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/26/2004
Subject: Re: possible lfs interview
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1933 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/26/2004
Subject: Re: possible lfs interview
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1934 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Attention DESMILIE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1935 From: desmilie Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Re: Attention DESMILIE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1936 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Re: Attention DESMILIE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1937 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1938 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1939 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1940 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1941 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: fungus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1942 From: robertjean2 Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Broken Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1943 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Re: Attention DESMILIE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1944 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/27/2004
Subject: Re: fungus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1945 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1946 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Re: do real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1947 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1948 From: Chris Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Re: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1949 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Re: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1950 From: Ang P Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Re: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1951 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 5/1/2004, 6:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1952 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Re: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1953 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Re: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1954 From: rully Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: bubblebee & cherry red shirmp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1955 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Re: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1956 From: Ang P Date: 4/28/2004
Subject: Re: bubblebee & cherry red shirmp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1957 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1958 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1959 From: Ang P Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1960 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: bubblebee & cherry red shirmp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1961 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1962 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1963 From: Chris Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1964 From: rully Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: bubblebee & cherry red shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1965 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1966 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/29/2004
Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1967 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/30/2004
Subject: Re: Sea Shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1968 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/30/2004
Subject: Fish Egg
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1969 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/30/2004
Subject: dried wooden logs in tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1970 From: Matt Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: drift wood and rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1971 From: red-eye Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1972 From: red-eye Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: pictures
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1973 From: red-eye Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1974 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1975 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: LFS (was - Re: BEN)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1976 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1977 From: red-eye Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1978 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: BEN
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1979 From: Michelle Cota Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1980 From: Michelle Cota Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: Broken Heater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1981 From: acct9622 Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1982 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/1/2004
Subject: Re: do real plantshelpammonia woes? answer YES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1983 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: drift wood and rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1984 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: dried wooden logs in tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1985 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Fish Egg
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1986 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1987 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1988 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Posted Pond Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1989 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1990 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1991 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Fish Egg
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1992 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1993 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Plants and Brine Bath
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1994 From: Matt Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: drift wood and rocks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1995 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1996 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1997 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: unedited email messages
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1998 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
Group: AquaticLife Message: 1999 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2000 From: hspellmen Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2001 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2002 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2003 From: Jonathan Short Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Mass Exodus!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2004 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Re: Mass Exodus!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2005 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: question about live plants and nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2006 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2007 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Re: question about live plants and nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2008 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Re: question about live plants and nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2009 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 202
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2010 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 202
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2011 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Re: question about live plants and nitrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2012 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2013 From: red-eye Date: 5/3/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2014 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/4/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 203
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2015 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/4/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 203
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2016 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/4/2004
Subject: Re: how to post
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2017 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 5/4/2004
Subject: Re: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2018 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/4/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 203
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2019 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 5/4/2004
Subject: Re: Newbee
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2020 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/5/2004
Subject: sad news
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2021 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/5/2004
Subject: Re: sad news
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2022 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/5/2004
Subject: Re: sad news
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2023 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/5/2004
Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2024 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/6/2004
Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2025 From: tbeatty Date: 5/6/2004
Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2026 From: arch1574 Date: 5/6/2004
Subject: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2027 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/6/2004
Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2028 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2029 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: stock suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2030 From: Cheryl Pappas Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: Oscar Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2031 From: frbstrd@aol.com Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2032 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: best schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2033 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: Re: best schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2034 From: Cheryl Pappas Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2035 From: amalthea x Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: Re: best schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2036 From: Michelle Cota Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: Re: best schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2037 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/7/2004
Subject: best schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2038 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/8/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 207
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2039 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/8/2004
Subject: Re: stock suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2040 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/8/2004
Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2041 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/8/2004
Subject: Re: best schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2042 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2004
Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2043 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 5/8/2004
Subject: Re: best schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2044 From: Linda Miller Date: 5/8/2004
Subject: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2045 From: jamie kathan Date: 5/8/2004
Subject: Oscar Problems Digest Number 207
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2046 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/9/2004
Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2047 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/9/2004
Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2048 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/9/2004
Subject: I mean Aquatic Plants.....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2049 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 5/9/2004
Subject: how many fish..........29g
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2050 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 5/9/2004
Subject: cleaning tank with snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2051 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank with snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2052 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2053 From: red-eye Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank with snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2054 From: Cheryl Pappas Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2055 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: Re: cleaning tank with snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2056 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: Live plant growth
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2057 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: Re: Live plant growth
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2058 From: mike mather Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: Re: best schooling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2059 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/10/2004
Subject: Re: Live plant growth
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2060 From: keithblackketter Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: ick question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2061 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: Re: Live plant growth
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2062 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: Re: Live plant growth
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2063 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: beginner plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2064 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: Fish for sale? (repost)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2065 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: Re: Malayan Penguin Shrimp?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2066 From: gbmfuzzlove Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: Need Help with Goldfish problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2067 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: Re: beginner plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2068 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/11/2004
Subject: Re: beginner plants?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2069 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/12/2004
Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2070 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/12/2004
Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2071 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/12/2004
Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2072 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/12/2004
Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2073 From: daniel_roachus Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: poor cory
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2074 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2075 From: david thomas Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: how to make artificial aquarium plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2076 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: does anyone recognize this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2077 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2078 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2079 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: can anyone get South american leaf fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2080 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2081 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: can anyone get South american leaf fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2082 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2083 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: South american leaf fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2084 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2085 From: magnolia_busse Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Moonlight Gourami's hating each other.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2086 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2087 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: Moonlight Gourami's hating each other.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2088 From: Audrey Archer Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 206
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2089 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 206
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2090 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: backgrounds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2091 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 206
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2092 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 206
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2093 From: magnolia_busse Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: Moonlight Gourami's hating each other.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2094 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: Moonlight Gourami's hating each other.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2095 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2096 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/13/2004
Subject: Placement of backround
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2097 From: Cyndy Date: 5/14/2004
Subject: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2098 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/14/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2099 From: Cyndy Date: 5/14/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2100 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/14/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2101 From: Cyndy Date: 5/14/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2102 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/14/2004
Subject: Re: aquarisol! not amquel...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2104 From: secretlaw Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Need African Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2105 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2106 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: Placement of backround
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2107 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2108 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2109 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2110 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: aquarisol! not amquel...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2111 From: red-eye Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: can anyone get South american leaf fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2112 From: red-eye Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2113 From: red-eye Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2114 From: red-eye Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2115 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2116 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2117 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2118 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: can anyone get South american leaf fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2119 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2120 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: good fish for small child's aquarium??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2121 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2122 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: hello/LINDA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2123 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/15/2004
Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2124 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: child's small aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2125 From: Audrey Archer Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: Background
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2126 From: red-eye Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: hello/LINDA
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2127 From: Audrey Archer Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 215
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2128 From: hspellmen Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: why?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2129 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2130 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: why?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2131 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2132 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: child's small aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2133 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: why?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2134 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: Background
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2135 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2136 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Yellow water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2137 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2138 From: Argisht Tamasyan Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: New group devoted to marine and fresh
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2139 From: hspellmen Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: Yellow water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2140 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/16/2004
Subject: Re: Yellow water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2141 From: Sarah Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2142 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2143 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: Question...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2144 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2145 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Can anyone help be identify this invert?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2146 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: Yellow water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2147 From: Elyse Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: Yellow water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2148 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: baby and babies swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2149 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2150 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2151 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re : kid's aquariums and filtration switching
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2152 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: Re : kid's aquariums and filtration switching
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2153 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/17/2004
Subject: Re: Re : kid's aquariums and filtration switching
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2154 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Yellow water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2155 From: Sarah Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2156 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2157 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2158 From: Elyse Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2159 From: David Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2160 From: Snerticus Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2161 From: Cyndy Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2162 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2163 From: Todd Fields Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2164 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2165 From: Todd Fields Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2166 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2167 From: secretlaw Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Chchlids for sale?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2168 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2169 From: Julie Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2170 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2171 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: hong kong pleco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2172 From: Dorothy Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: question about salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2173 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/18/2004
Subject: Re: hong kong pleco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2174 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switching
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2175 From: Cyndy Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: Question #2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2176 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: Re: Question #2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2177 From: Matt Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2178 From: Cyndy Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: Re: Question #2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2179 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 218
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2180 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: Angefishl/es dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2181 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: wounded mollie!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2182 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: Re: replacement filter bags
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2183 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: Re: Question #2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2184 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/19/2004
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2185 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2186 From: Cyndy Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: Question #2
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2187 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2188 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: Question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2189 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2190 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: Question... Salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2191 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: hong kong pleco
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2192 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: question about salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2193 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switching
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2194 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switching
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2195 From: Cyndy Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: Question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2196 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: wounded mollie!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2197 From: Julie Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switching
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2198 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: wounded mollie!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2199 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switc...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2200 From: Cyndy Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: Question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2201 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2202 From: captaininsane357 Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Oscars & bugs......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2203 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2204 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2205 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2206 From: tropicalfishman Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2207 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2208 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2209 From: Nywarren Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2210 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2211 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/20/2004
Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2212 From: angjo72 Date: 5/21/2004
Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2213 From: Audrey Archer Date: 5/21/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2214 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/21/2004
Subject: Another Gourami Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2215 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/21/2004
Subject: baby swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2216 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 5/21/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2217 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 5/21/2004
Subject: Re: Another Gourami Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2218 From: Nywarren Date: 5/21/2004
Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2219 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: Question..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2220 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2221 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2222 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2223 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: still no slime coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2224 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: swimming funny
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2225 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2226 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: swimming funny
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2227 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: swimming funny
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2228 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: swimming funny
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2229 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2230 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2231 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
Subject: Re: still no slime coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2232 From: Erin Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: still no slime coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2233 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: SailfinMolly Sickness
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2234 From: red-eye Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: SailfinMolly Sickness
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2235 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Fw: SailfinMolly Sickness
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2236 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: Fw: SailfinMolly Sickness
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2237 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2238 From: Michelle Cota Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: still no slime coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2239 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2240 From: canadian_craftsman Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: T8 Bulbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2241 From: pfleiderer Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: T8 Bulbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2242 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: still no slime coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2243 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2244 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: T8 Bulbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2245 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2246 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: still no slime coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2247 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: T8 Bulbs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2248 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2249 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/23/2004
Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2250 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 5/24/2004
Subject: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2251 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/24/2004
Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2252 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/24/2004
Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2253 From: Snerticus Date: 5/24/2004
Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2254 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/24/2004
Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2255 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/24/2004
Subject: Re: still no slime coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2256 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/24/2004
Subject: Re: still no slime coat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2257 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2258 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 225
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2259 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2260 From: Smit, Johan (JD) Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: FLUORITE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2261 From: Peggy Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: Re: Corydoras - Joe (wasSAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2262 From: Peggy Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2263 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2264 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/25/2004
Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2265 From: Ang P Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2266 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Sensing Doom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2267 From: Peggy Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 226
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2268 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Newbie; fish with ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2269 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Re: Sensing Doom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2270 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2271 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2272 From: anuar Date: 5/26/2004
Subject: Goldie Dying everyday ....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2273 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2274 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: mating behavior, etc.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2275 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: mating behavior, etc.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2276 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2277 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2278 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: mating behavior, etc.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2279 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Goldie Dying everyday ....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2280 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2281 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Sensing Doom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2282 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/27/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2283 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2284 From: setya_one Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2285 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2286 From: anuar Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2287 From: irwan.s.utomo@id.pwc.com Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2288 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Learning lots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2289 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: guppy fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2290 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2291 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: ideas for feeding plecostamus?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2292 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Volcanit Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2293 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Re: Volcanit Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2294 From: emijer emijer Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2295 From: captaininsane357 Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Re: ideas for feeding plecostamus?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2296 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2297 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 5/28/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2298 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: Re: Volcanit Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2299 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: Okay
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2300 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: Re: Okay
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2301 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: advice needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2302 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2303 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2304 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2305 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2306 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2307 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/29/2004
Subject: Re: Volcanit Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2308 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: FW: Brackish Water Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2309 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Dwarf Gouramis
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2310 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: opinions welcome
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2311 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: opinions welcome
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2312 From: anuar Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2313 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: opinions welcome
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2314 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2315 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: guppy fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2316 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: guppy fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2317 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2318 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2319 From: anuar Date: 5/30/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2320 From: red-eye Date: 5/31/2004
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2321 From: gorhka Date: 5/31/2004
Subject: Just purchased a 100gal tank that leaks....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2322 From: emijer Date: 5/31/2004
Subject: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2323 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/31/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2324 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 5/31/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2325 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/31/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2326 From: iloveguppies Date: 5/31/2004
Subject: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2327 From: daniel_roachus Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2328 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 232
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2329 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: How long?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2330 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2331 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: How long?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2332 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: How long?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2333 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: How long?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2334 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: How long?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2335 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gouramis and mail order fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2336 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: How long?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2337 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2338 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2339 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2340 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2341 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2342 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: Dwarf Gouramis and mail order fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2343 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: DECO ROCKS PICTURES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2344 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: DECO ROCKS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2345 From: Jolena Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: DECO ROCKS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2346 From: red-eye Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2347 From: red-eye Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2348 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: DECO ROCKS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2349 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: How long?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2350 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/1/2004
Subject: Re: opinions welcome/ordering online
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2351 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/2/2004
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2352 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/2/2004
Subject: Re: serious help needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2353 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/2/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2354 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/2/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2355 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 233
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2356 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 232
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2357 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 233
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2358 From: red-eye Date: 6/2/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 232
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2359 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 6/2/2004
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 6/5/2004, 6:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2360 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2361 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2362 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2363 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2364 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2365 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2366 From: red-eye Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2367 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2368 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2369 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2370 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2371 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2372 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2373 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2374 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2375 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2376 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2377 From: audralee Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2378 From: Zivko Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2379 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2380 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2381 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2382 From: Jeff Schultz Date: 6/3/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2383 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2384 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BABIES, CAN SOME ONE GIVE ME A
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2385 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2386 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2387 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BAB...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2388 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2389 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BABIES, CAN SOME ONE GIVE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2390 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BAB...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2391 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2392 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BABIES, CAN SOME ONE GIVE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2393 From: red-eye Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2394 From: emijer emijer Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2395 From: Jolena Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2396 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2397 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Acrylic vs glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2398 From: Jolena Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2399 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2400 From: Jolena Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2401 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2402 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2403 From: Aaron Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Do Fish get 'Sunburned'?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2404 From: Jolena Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2405 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Acrylic vs glass
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2406 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2407 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2408 From: wil Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2409 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: guess what i just got
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2410 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2411 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: guess what i just got
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2412 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2413 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2414 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: guess what i just got
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2415 From: red-eye Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BABIES, CAN SOME ONE GIVE
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2416 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2417 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: new fish one gone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2418 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2419 From: Smit, Johan (JD) Date: 6/4/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2420 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/5/2004
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2421 From: canadian_craftsman Date: 6/5/2004
Subject: Coralife Compact Flourescent Fixture
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2422 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/5/2004
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2423 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/5/2004
Subject: Re: cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2424 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/5/2004
Subject: 20 GALLON TANK LID
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2425 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/5/2004
Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2426 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/5/2004
Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2427 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/5/2004
Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2428 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/6/2004
Subject: Re: guess what i just got
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2429 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/6/2004
Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2430 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/6/2004
Subject: Re: Pump help.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2431 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/6/2004
Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2432 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/6/2004
Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2433 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/6/2004
Subject: Re: guess what i just got
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2434 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/6/2004
Subject: Re: guess what i just got
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2435 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/6/2004
Subject: Re: guess what i just got
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2436 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/6/2004
Subject: Re: guess what i just got
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2437 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/7/2004
Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2438 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/7/2004
Subject: New arrivals
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2439 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/8/2004
Subject: New What to do?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2440 From: Tri mac Date: 6/8/2004
Subject: Hey great group -come visit mine
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2441 From: Patrick Date: 6/8/2004
Subject: Re: New What to do?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2442 From: Seti Date: 6/8/2004
Subject: Re: New What to do?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2443 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/8/2004
Subject: Re: New What to do?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2444 From: Patrick Date: 6/8/2004
Subject: Re: New What to do?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2445 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/8/2004
Subject: Re: New What to do?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2446 From: jim Date: 6/9/2004
Subject: fluval 404 canister filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2447 From: jim Date: 6/9/2004
Subject: message activities of this group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2448 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/9/2004
Subject: Re: fluval 404 canister filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2449 From: Seti Date: 6/9/2004
Subject: Re: message activities of this group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2450 From: Seti Date: 6/9/2004
Subject: Re: fluval 404 canister filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2451 From: Patrick Date: 6/9/2004
Subject: Re: message activities of this group -> ugf's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2452 From: freedombell2002 Date: 6/9/2004
Subject: back on message 1477 subject Free Starter Kits for Teachers!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2453 From: freedombell2002 Date: 6/9/2004
Subject: Re: back on message 1477 subject Free Starter Kits for Teachers!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2454 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/10/2004
Subject: Remodelling fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2456 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/11/2004
Subject: maximizing water quality through water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2457 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/11/2004
Subject: Re: aqurium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2458 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/11/2004
Subject: Re: aqurium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2459 From: Patrick, the AmericanFishGuy Date: 6/11/2004
Subject: Re: aqurium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2465 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 6/11/2004
Subject: Re: fish food
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2466 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/12/2004
Subject: Re: message activities of this group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2467 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/12/2004
Subject: message activities of this group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2468 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/12/2004
Subject: Re: activated carbon and live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2469 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/12/2004
Subject: Re: aqurium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2470 From: freedombell2002 Date: 6/12/2004
Subject: OT \ been a freshwater lover now I have a reef
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2471 From: Patrick Date: 6/12/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2472 From: Patrick Date: 6/12/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2473 From: Peggy Date: 6/12/2004
Subject: Re: aqurium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2474 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: salt in freshwater tanks (was Re: aqurium)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2475 From: Jonathan Short Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: what are they???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2476 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium lighting
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2477 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Re: fish food
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2478 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Re: aquarium cleaning
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2479 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Re: aeators
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2480 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2481 From: Patrick Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2482 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Re: salt in freshwater tanks (was Re: aqurium)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2483 From: Grissom's Fan Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2484 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2485 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Two new tanks to setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2486 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: ? on my platies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2487 From: Patrick Date: 6/13/2004
Subject: Re: ? on my platies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2488 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 6/14/2004
Subject: Re: Two new tanks to setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2489 From: Jonathan Short Date: 6/14/2004
Subject: salt in freshwater tanks (was Re: aqurium)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2490 From: Patrick Date: 6/14/2004
Subject: Re: salt baths -> bad idea?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2491 From: Patrick Date: 6/14/2004
Subject: Re: aeators -> air stones
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2492 From: jim Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: e-mail expression
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2493 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2494 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: what are they???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2495 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2496 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2497 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: Two new tanks to setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2498 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: ? on my platies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2499 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: Two new tanks to setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2500 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: salt in freshwater tanks (was Re: aqurium)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2501 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2502 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: salt baths -> bad idea?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2503 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: e-mail expression
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2504 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2505 From: maybe ill tell you when i know you Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: aqurium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2506 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: e-mail expression
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2507 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: from Brazil,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2508 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Pedragismo - A arte das pedras nos aquários
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2509 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: INTERZOO 2004 pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2510 From: Patrick Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: salt baths -> bad idea?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2511 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Re: e-mail expression
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2512 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/15/2004
Subject: Tanks doing well....so far....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2513 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: e-mail expression
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2514 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: e-mail expression
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2515 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: e-mail expression
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2516 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Breve Estudo sobre o Aguapé
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2517 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Ninphoides aquatica / bananinha d'água.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2518 From: Shannon Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2519 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: e-mail expression
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2520 From: paul helms Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2521 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2522 From: Patrick Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2523 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2524 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2525 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2526 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2527 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2528 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2529 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: pond plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2530 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2531 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2532 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2533 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: pond plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2534 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: pond plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2535 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2536 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2537 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/16/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2538 From: freedombell2002 Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2539 From: Patrick Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2540 From: Patrick Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2541 From: Patrick Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2542 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2543 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: pond plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2544 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2545 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: pond plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2546 From: Julie Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2547 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Freshwater shells
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2548 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2549 From: Julie Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2550 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2551 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2552 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2553 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2554 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2555 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2556 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2557 From: andrew davis Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Live plants, disinfecting alternatives
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2558 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Companions for Large Frontosa
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2559 From: paul helms Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Companions for Large Frontosa
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2560 From: paul helms Date: 6/17/2004
Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2561 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2562 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: betta pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2563 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: e-mail expression
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2564 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2565 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2566 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2567 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2568 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2569 From: Patrick Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2570 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2571 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2572 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: New endlers
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2573 From: tony Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Protomelas Ornatus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2574 From: paul helms Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2575 From: paul helms Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2576 From: paul helms Date: 6/18/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2577 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2578 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: live plants help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2579 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Axelrod Arrested!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2580 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: More on Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2581 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2582 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: Axelrod Arrested!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2583 From: Patrick Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2584 From: Patrick Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2585 From: Patrick Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: live plants help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2586 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: Endler's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2587 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: Axelrod
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2588 From: red-eye Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: live plants help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2589 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2590 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2591 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2592 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: aponogetons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2593 From: red-eye Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: fluval 404 canister filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2594 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/19/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2595 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: aponogetons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2596 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2597 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: live plants help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2598 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2599 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: live plants help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2600 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2601 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2602 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2603 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2604 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2605 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: live plants help &swordtails/mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2606 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: MOLLIES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2607 From: Patrick Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: live plants help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2608 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2609 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: live plants help &swordtails/mollies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2610 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2611 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2612 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2613 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/20/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2614 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2615 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: MOLLIES
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2616 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2617 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2618 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Materia sobre Ampularias, por Eduardo e Yuri.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2619 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: DISCUS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2620 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: DISCUS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2621 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Whatever works
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2622 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2623 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2624 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2625 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2626 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2627 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2628 From: paul helms Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2629 From: paul helms Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: DISCUS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2630 From: paul helms Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2631 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2632 From: Patrick Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2633 From: keith94112 Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2634 From: Patrick Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2635 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2636 From: paul helms Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2637 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/21/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2638 From: Aaron Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: LFS in SF (was-> new to the group - with boring newbie question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2639 From: Aaron Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2640 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2641 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2642 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2643 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2644 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2645 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: high pH and salt
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2646 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2647 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2648 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2649 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2650 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2651 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2652 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2653 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2654 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2655 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2656 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2657 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2658 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2659 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2660 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2661 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: AquaSafe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2662 From: Jolena Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2663 From: Seti Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: AquaSafe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2664 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2665 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Anyone who is confused about the cycle, read this!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2666 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2667 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2668 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2669 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: AquaSafe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2670 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: more cycle stuff (new to group...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2671 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: AquaSafe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2672 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2673 From: Cathey Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: WHAT is invading my tank?! PLEASE HELP!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2674 From: Cathey Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2675 From: Aaron Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2676 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Otto's and cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2677 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2678 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2679 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2680 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2681 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2682 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2683 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2684 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2685 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: more cycle stuff (new to group...)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2686 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: marisa_eggs_moving
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2687 From: Cathey Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2688 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: ramshorneggs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2689 From: Cathey Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: oh CRAP--they're hatching and they're EVERYWHERE!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2690 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2691 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: oh CRAP--they're hatching and they're EVERYWHERE!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2692 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: oh CRAP--they're hatching and they're EVERYWHERE!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2693 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2694 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2695 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2696 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2697 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2698 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2699 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2700 From: keith94112 Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2701 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2702 From: bryants4god Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2703 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2704 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2705 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2706 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2707 From: Patrick Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: more cycle stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2708 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Betta food and Cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2709 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2710 From: Patrick Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Betta food and Cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2711 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2712 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2713 From: dave Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: cycling
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2714 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2715 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2716 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2717 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: S A L T
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2718 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Betta food and Cycle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2719 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: more cycle stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2720 From: Cathey Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Terri Bryant!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2721 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2722 From: Cathey Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2723 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: S A L T
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2724 From: Patrick Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2725 From: Cathey Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Loaches are a No-Go--any other suggestions??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2726 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Loaches are a No-Go--any other suggestions??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2727 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2728 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: New to the Group - With Boring Newbie Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2729 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2730 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: New to the Group - With Boring Newbie Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2731 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 257
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2732 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2733 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: How-to (DIY) Freshwater-banana´s farm with pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2734 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: carnivores and bettas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2735 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: New to the Group - With Boring Newbie Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2736 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re; new to the group - with boring newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2737 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2738 From: Seti Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2739 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP! - Clown Loaches
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2740 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Newbie stuff
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2741 From: Seti Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2742 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: S A L T
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2743 From: bryants4god Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Terri Bryant!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2744 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 258
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2745 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: pH (Was: Whatever Works)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2746 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Digest #257
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2747 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2748 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Help me please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2749 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2750 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2751 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Re; new to the group - with boring newbie questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2752 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: New to the Group - With Boring Newbie Questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2753 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: carnivores and bettas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2754 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2755 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Loaches are a No-Go--any other suggestions??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2756 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2757 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Loaches are a No-Go--any other suggestions??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2758 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please/test kit!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2759 From: Cathey Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2760 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2761 From: red-eye Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: live plants help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2762 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2763 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: carnivores and bettas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2764 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2765 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2766 From: keith Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2767 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2768 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2769 From: Sharla Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Is this Ich/Ick?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2770 From: Sharla Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Another photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2771 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Another photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2772 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2773 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Is this Ich/Ick?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2774 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please/test kit!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2775 From: bryants4god Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Terri Bryant!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2776 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Several subjects
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2777 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Is this Ich/Ick?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2778 From: Smit, Johan (JD) Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Is this Ich/Ick?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2779 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2780 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2781 From: Cathey Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2782 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Several subjects -- FIRST SUBJECT
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2783 From: hartsojb Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Angel Fish Setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2784 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: New to group and fish problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2785 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Several subjects -- SECOND SUBJECT
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2786 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Help me please
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2787 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re; Several subjects -- THIRD SUBJECT
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2789 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Several subjects -- FOURTH SUBJECT
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2790 From: Cathey Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog*Warning*
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2791 From: Chris Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Bug Bombs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2792 From: thewheelmanswoman Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Angel Fish Setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2793 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Bug Bombs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2794 From: paul helms Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: New to group and fish problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2795 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: extremely fat rainbow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2796 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Bug Bombs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2797 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Angel Fish Setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2798 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Several subjects -- FIRST SUBJECT
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2799 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Clamped fins
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2800 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2801 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Pics posted
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2802 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 263
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2803 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: I may be starting another fish only store soon...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2804 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/24/2004
Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2805 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2806 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: New to group and fish problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2807 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2808 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Clamped fins
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2809 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Several subjects -- FIRST SUBJECT
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2810 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Several subjects: FIRST SUBJECT
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2811 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 263
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2812 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: I may be starting another fish only ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2813 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: fish diarrhea???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2814 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Clamped fins
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2815 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Sorry had a brain fart about the caps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2816 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2817 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2818 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2819 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Great product,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2820 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2821 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Clamped fins
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2822 From: John Pavao Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Great product,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2823 From: Patrick Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2824 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2825 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Water problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2827 From: gorhka Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Tank Startup Questions (2)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2828 From: Patrick Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2829 From: Patrick Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Tank Startup Questions (2)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2830 From: Patrick Date: 6/25/2004
Subject: Re: Water problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2831 From: floridaguy40s Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Expand your tropical fish hobby or go right into commercial product
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2832 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Great product,
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2833 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Water problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2834 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2835 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: fish diarrhea???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2836 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: I may be starting another fish only ...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2837 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: New to group and fish problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2838 From: Aaron Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2839 From: Aaron Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2840 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Gotta switch back from digest!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2841 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: iloveguppies, Stop yelling at me!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2842 From: dave Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Ghost shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2843 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Pima Fix
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2844 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2845 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Ghost shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2846 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: please help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2847 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: hard water stains on plastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2848 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2849 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2850 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Clamped fins
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2851 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Pima Fix
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2852 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2853 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2854 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Platy problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2855 From: Patrick Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Pima Fix
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2856 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2857 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2858 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2859 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2860 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Platy problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2861 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2862 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2863 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2864 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/26/2004
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2865 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2866 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2867 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Fishkeeping 101MAJOR NOTE!!!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2868 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2869 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2870 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: how to clean my watr storage tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2871 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: Platy problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2872 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2873 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2874 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2875 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2876 From: ben olds Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2877 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2878 From: paul helms Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2879 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2880 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2881 From: Patrick Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Ghost Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2882 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/27/2004
Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2883 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: how to clean my watr storage tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2884 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2885 From: Aaron Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2886 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: fish diarrhea???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2887 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: Gotta switch back from digest!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2888 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2889 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Java mos in home see the pictures...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2890 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2891 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2892 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: how to clean my watr storage tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2893 From: red-eye Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2894 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2895 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: how to clean my watr storage tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2896 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2897 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2898 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2899 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2900 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pima Fix
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2901 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: Platy problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2902 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2903 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2904 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2905 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2906 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2907 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2908 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2911 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2912 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: Platy problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2914 From: red-eye Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2915 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2916 From: castexisp Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: Re: Platy problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2917 From: Richard Emmanuel M. Carasig Date: 6/28/2004
Subject: new pix
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2920 From: Aaron Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Java mos in home see the pictures...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2921 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Java mos in home see the pictures...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2922 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2923 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2924 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2925 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2927 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2928 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: how to clean my watr storage tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2929 From: Aaron Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Group Membership reaches 500!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2930 From: Patrick Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2931 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2932 From: fishtankbabe Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Looking for suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2933 From: Jason Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2934 From: castexisp Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2935 From: Jason Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2936 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2937 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2938 From: Jason Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2939 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2940 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2941 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2942 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 6/29/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2943 From: dave Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2944 From: Jason Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2945 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2946 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2947 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2948 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2949 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2950 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2951 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2952 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2953 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2954 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2955 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2956 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2957 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2958 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2959 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2960 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2961 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2962 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Platy problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2963 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2964 From: bryants4god Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2965 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2966 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2967 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2968 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2969 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2970 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2971 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2972 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2973 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2974 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 271
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2975 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2976 From: Sarah Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Clown Loach HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2977 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2978 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2979 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2980 From: Sarah Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2981 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2982 From: Jeff Schultz Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2983 From: Sarah Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2984 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2985 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2986 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2987 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2988 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2989 From: Jeff Schultz Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2990 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 7/3/2004, 6:30 pm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2991 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2992 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2993 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2994 From: bryants4god Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2995 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2996 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2997 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2998 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2999 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3000 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3001 From: renee31477 Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3002 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3003 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3004 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3005 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3006 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3007 From: bryants4god Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3008 From: bryants4god Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3009 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3010 From: renee31477 Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3011 From: Patrick Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3012 From: bryants4god Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3013 From: renee31477 Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3014 From: bryants4god Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3015 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3016 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3017 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3018 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3019 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 274
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3020 From: muskie4817 Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: How to tell if a fish is pregnant
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3021 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3022 From: Sarah Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3023 From: Patrick Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3024 From: Sarah Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: How to tell if a fish is pregnant
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3025 From: Richard Emmanuel M. Carasig Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: riccia flutans
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3026 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: How to tell if a fish is pregnant
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3027 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: ghost shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3028 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3029 From: questnjurny Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Introduction and a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3030 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3031 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: patrick snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3032 From: Patrick Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: patrick snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3033 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: ghost shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3034 From: captaininsane357 Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: ghost shrimp - Part II
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3035 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3036 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Introduction and a question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3037 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3038 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3039 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: opossum death card
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3040 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3041 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3042 From: Matt Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Molly on the floor
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3043 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: ????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3044 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: ghost shrimp - Part II
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3045 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Molly on the floor
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3046 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3047 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3048 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Two Questions...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3049 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: How to tell if a fish is pregnant
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3050 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes During the First Cycle (WAS: Introduction and a q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3051 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3052 From: paul helms Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3053 From: paul helms Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Water Changes During the First Cycle (WAS: Introduction and a q
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3054 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3055 From: Patrick Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3056 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3057 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3058 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Scott
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3059 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3060 From: Donna Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3061 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3062 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: they are stalking me was....snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3063 From: Tri mac Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Great Group!!! Come visit mine!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3064 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: they are stalking me was....snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3065 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: homepage photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3066 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3067 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: homepage photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3068 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3069 From: Angela Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3070 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Anyone know about catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3071 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3072 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3073 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3074 From: Patrick Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3075 From: Tina Date: 7/2/2004
Subject: New Member Hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3076 From: Aaron Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: New Member Hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3077 From: Aaron Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: the 2004 AGA International Aquascaping Contest
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3078 From: Aaron Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Red, White & Blue Fish Tank Pics
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3079 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: attn mjb snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3080 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3081 From: Aaron Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: homepage photo
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3082 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3083 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: they are stalking me
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3084 From: captaininsane357 Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: ghost shrimp - Part II
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3085 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3086 From: bryants4god Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3087 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3088 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3089 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3090 From: Patrick Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3091 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: New Member Hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3092 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: attn mjb snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3093 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3094 From: bryants4god Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3095 From: bryants4god Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3096 From: joegum Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Goldfish & snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3097 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Goldfish & snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3098 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Anyone know about catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3099 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3100 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: they are stalking me
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3101 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: theresa: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3102 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3103 From: Tina Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: New Member Hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3104 From: bob_burnett_180 Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: I am relatively new to this and need some help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3105 From: muskie4817 Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3106 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need some help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3107 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need som...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3108 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3109 From: Patrick Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need some help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3110 From: Patrick Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3111 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Anyone know about catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3112 From: Angela Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3113 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need some help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3114 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3115 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3116 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3117 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3118 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3119 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3120 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: SNAILS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3121 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3122 From: audralee Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3123 From: bryants4god Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: testing kits
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3124 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3125 From: captaininsane357 Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3126 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3127 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: new fishies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3128 From: utacutie Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3129 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: ghost shrimp - Part II
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3130 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3131 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3132 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3133 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Starting Right With Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3134 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3135 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3136 From: Angela Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3137 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: plecs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3138 From: Patrick Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3139 From: dave Date: 7/3/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3140 From: utacutie Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3141 From: jlwright72601 Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Plant disease problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3142 From: big_animal_luver Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Aquatic Turtles
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3143 From: Peter T Davies Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Hello form a complete beginner
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3144 From: bryants4god Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Aquatic Turtles
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3145 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3146 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Plant disease problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3147 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3148 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Um Cultivo bem sucedido de Bananinha - Sequência (1) (bananas FAR
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3149 From: joegum Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Goldfish and snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3150 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3151 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: forgot to add Hello form a complete beginner
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3152 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3153 From: muskie4817 Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3154 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3155 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Goldfish and snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3156 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Goldfish and snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3157 From: Elyse Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Expand your tropical fish hobby or go right into commercial pro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3158 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3159 From: utacutie Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3160 From: utacutie Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3161 From: utacutie Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3162 From: muskie4817 Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3163 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3164 From: Sarah Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3165 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3166 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3167 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3168 From: wil Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: about water testing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3169 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: about water testing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3170 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: about water testing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3171 From: Elyse Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3172 From: Angela Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: about water testing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3173 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: about water testing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3174 From: questnjurny Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3175 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Anyone know about catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3176 From: wil Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: about water testing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3177 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3178 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Anyone know about catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3179 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3180 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: coris and clowns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3181 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3182 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3183 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need some help
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3184 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3185 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: about water testing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3186 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3187 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/4/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3188 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: about water testing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3189 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3190 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3191 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3192 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3193 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3194 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3195 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Chemicals in Algae lab
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3196 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3197 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3198 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3199 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: please help ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3200 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: please help ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3201 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3202 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3203 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3204 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3205 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: about water testing
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3206 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3207 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3208 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3209 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3210 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3211 From: Barbara Linden Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Education needed...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3212 From: utacutie Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3213 From: Salmarcus@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Haiir Algea
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3214 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Haiir Algea
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3215 From: Salmarcus@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Haiir Algea
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3216 From: Sarah Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3217 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3218 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3219 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3220 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3221 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3222 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3223 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3224 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3225 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3226 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Chemicals in water for Algal growth
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3227 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: ? On Pacu
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3228 From: joegum Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3229 From: joegum Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3230 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: ? On Pacu
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3231 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: Chemicals in water for Algal growth
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3232 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/5/2004
Subject: Re: please help ASAP
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3233 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3234 From: Aaron Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: fish shows - details from another group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3235 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: washed out neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3236 From: joegum Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3237 From: joegum Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3238 From: frbstrd@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3239 From: joegum Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3240 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: ?'S ON CATFISH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3241 From: paul helms Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3242 From: paul helms Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3243 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3244 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3245 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3246 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3247 From: utacutie Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: evaporation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3248 From: frbstrd@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: evaporation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3249 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: evaporation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3250 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3251 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3252 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3253 From: Patrick Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3254 From: Patrick Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: ?'S ON CATFISH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3255 From: Sarah Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3256 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3257 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3258 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: ?'S ON CATFISH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3259 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3260 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3261 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3262 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3263 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3264 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3265 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3266 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3267 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Yeah!! Swordtail fry are FINALLY getting their swords
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3268 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3269 From: Patrick Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3270 From: bryants4god Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3271 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: High temps
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3272 From: emijer Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3273 From: bryants4god Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3274 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: snails Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3275 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Snail and Fish Parasite
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3276 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Yahoo! Groups FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium Files
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3277 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Which is better?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3278 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3279 From: joegum Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3280 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3281 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3282 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3283 From: bryants4god Date: 7/6/2004
Subject: Re: snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3284 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3285 From: Tom Reagin Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: BioSpira
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3286 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: evaporation?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3287 From: falln_seraph Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3288 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3289 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3290 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3291 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3292 From: falln_seraph Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3293 From: Patrick Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3294 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: High temps (and loss of dwarf gouramis)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3295 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3296 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3297 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3298 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3299 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3300 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3301 From: traceyhanson Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: clown loach question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3302 From: joegum Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3303 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3304 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: got some pics of my aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3305 From: joegum Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3306 From: Patrick Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: clown loach question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3307 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: High temps (and loss of dwarf gouramis)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3308 From: secretlaw Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: clown loach question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3309 From: Patrick Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3310 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3311 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3312 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3313 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3314 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3315 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3316 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3317 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: ? for the person in wichita kansas
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3318 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3319 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: clown loach question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3320 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3321 From: joegum Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3322 From: Patrick Date: 7/7/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3323 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: clown loach question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3324 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3326 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3327 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3328 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3329 From: traceyhanson Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: clown loach question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3330 From: questnjurny Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3331 From: joegum Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3332 From: Patrick Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3333 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: was clown loach question, now YoYo loach?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3334 From: joegum Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3335 From: joegum Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3336 From: joegum Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3337 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo loach?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3338 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3339 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3340 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3341 From: Jeff Schultz Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3342 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo l...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3343 From: Patrick Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3344 From: Patrick Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3345 From: questnjurny Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3346 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo loach?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3347 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: was YoYos, now Endler's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3348 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3349 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/8/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3350 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: PLease Help Sick angelfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3351 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo l...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3352 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: was YoYos, now Endler's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3353 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo loach?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3354 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3355 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3356 From: paul helms Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3357 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo l...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3358 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: new tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3359 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3360 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: was YoYo, now Endler's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3361 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3362 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3363 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3364 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3365 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: ?'S ON CATFISH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3366 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3367 From: questnjurny Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3368 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3369 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3370 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3371 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3372 From: rojeriko Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: new member - aquarium review?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3373 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3374 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3375 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: new member - aquarium review?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3376 From: wil Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: cichlids, ph, and cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3377 From: questnjurny Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3378 From: joegum Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3379 From: joegum Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Temperature issues
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3380 From: Damojn Bradbury Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: new member - aquarium review?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3381 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Air pump on floor
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3382 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3383 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3384 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3385 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: albino cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3386 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: cichlids, ph, and cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3387 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: new member - aquarium review?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3388 From: questnjurny Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3389 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3390 From: joegum Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Air pump on floor
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3391 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3392 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3393 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: new member - aquarium review?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3394 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: attn patrick] new member - aquarium review?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3395 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium review?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3396 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3397 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: finding a spotted: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3398 From: Jason Date: 7/9/2004
Subject: What kind of fish do I have?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3399 From: Damojn Bradbury Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: cichlids, ph, and cloudy water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3400 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3401 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 292
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3402 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3403 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Chemicals in water for Algal growth
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3404 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: finding a spotted: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3405 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: finding a spotted: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3406 From: joegum Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 292
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3407 From: Patrick Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium review?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3408 From: questnjurny Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3409 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3410 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: sick angelfish Melafix
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3411 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3412 From: Pam Berg Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3413 From: questnjurny Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3414 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: What kind of fish do I have?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3415 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3416 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3417 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3418 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: sick angelfish Melafix
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3419 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3420 From: greywolfmm Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3421 From: Aaron Martin Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: fishy humor
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3422 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3423 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Need help quick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3424 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: QUESTION ON KILLIFISH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3425 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Need help quick
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3426 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3427 From: Angela Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: QUESTION ON KILLIFISH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3428 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3429 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium revi...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3430 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3431 From: Patrick Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3432 From: Patrick Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3433 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3434 From: Patrick Date: 7/10/2004
Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3435 From: Damon Bradbury Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: sick angelfish Melafix
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3436 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3437 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3438 From: paul helms Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3439 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium revi...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3440 From: Pam Berg Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3441 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3442 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium revi...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3443 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3444 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3445 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3446 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3447 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3448 From: Tina Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Airstone problem?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3449 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3450 From: red-eye Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3451 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3452 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3453 From: Aaron Martin Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3454 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3455 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3456 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3457 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: QUESTION ON KILLIFISH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3458 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3459 From: Patrick Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3460 From: Patrick Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3461 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3462 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3463 From: Patrick Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3464 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3465 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Starting Right With Aquariums, Part II
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3466 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3467 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3468 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3469 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3470 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3471 From: paul helms Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Starting Right With Aquariums, Part II
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3472 From: paul helms Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3473 From: paul helms Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3474 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: sick angelfish Melafix
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3475 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3476 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/11/2004
Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3477 From: paul helms Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3478 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3479 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3480 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3481 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3482 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Starting Right With Aquariums, Part II
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3483 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3484 From: paul helms Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3485 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3486 From: red-eye Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3487 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 296
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3488 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3489 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3490 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3491 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3492 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: red tailed shark extinct in the Wild
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3493 From: Patrick Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3494 From: Patrick Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: red tailed shark extinct in the Wild
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3495 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Has everyone been behaving?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3496 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3497 From: Tina Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3498 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: New cory cats
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3499 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3500 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3501 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3502 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3503 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3504 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Starting Right With Aquariums, Part II
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3505 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3506 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3507 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3508 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3509 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3510 From: paul helms Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3511 From: paul helms Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3512 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3513 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3514 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3515 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3516 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3517 From: questnjurny Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3518 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3519 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: the drama of my cat was.... cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3520 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3521 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3522 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: the drama of my cat was.... cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3523 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3524 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3525 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3526 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3528 From: questnjurny Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3529 From: questnjurny Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3530 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3531 From: Lois A. Pomeroy Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3532 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/12/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3533 From: paul helms Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3534 From: paul helms Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3535 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3536 From: frank Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Hello group
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3537 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3538 From: Patrick Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3539 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3540 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3541 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3542 From: questnjurny Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3543 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3544 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3545 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3546 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Ecoaqualizer?????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3547 From: Jason Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: Ecoaqualizer?????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3548 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3549 From: questnjurny Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3550 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3551 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/13/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3552 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3553 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3554 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3555 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Re: Ecoaqualizer?????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3556 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3557 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3558 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3559 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3560 From: salt150g Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3561 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/14/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3562 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3563 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3564 From: bryants4god Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: filter floss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3565 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: filter floss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3566 From: bryants4god Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: filter floss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3567 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3568 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: filter floss
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3569 From: fishtankbabe Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3570 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3571 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3572 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: lazy koi?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3573 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3574 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3575 From: salt150g Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3576 From: salt150g Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3577 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3578 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
Subject: Re: pH questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3579 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: Plant disease problem
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3580 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: SNAILS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3581 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3582 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: new babies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3583 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3584 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3585 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: new babies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3586 From: paul helms Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3587 From: paul helms Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: new babies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3588 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3589 From: Patrick Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: new babies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3590 From: fishtankbabe Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3591 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: SNAILS
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3592 From: paul helms Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: new babies!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3593 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Poor neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3594 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Opps I meant so much for neons
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3595 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3596 From: Seti Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3597 From: Seti Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: And a question on red ramshorns
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3598 From: Jason Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: 10 gallon suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3599 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3600 From: Seti Date: 7/16/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3601 From: Aaron Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: life kicks the (Fish) bucket
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3602 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: 10 gallon suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3603 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3604 From: Patrick Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3605 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Identify this fish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3606 From: Seti Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3607 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3608 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3609 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3610 From: audralee Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3611 From: Seti Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3612 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: driftwood question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3613 From: Patrick Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: driftwood question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3614 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3615 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3616 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Um Cultivo bem sucedido de Bananinha - Sequência (2)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3617 From: Seti Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3618 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3619 From: Seti Date: 7/18/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3620 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/18/2004
Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3621 From: T. Lee Date: 7/18/2004
Subject: New Member
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3622 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/18/2004
Subject: Back to undecided
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3623 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/18/2004
Subject: Starting Right with Aquariums, Part III
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3624 From: Seti Date: 7/18/2004
Subject: Re: Starting Right with Aquariums, Part III
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3625 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 7/18/2004
Subject: OFF TOPIC Fwd: Aquatic-Plants Digest FREE TO GOOD HOME
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3626 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/18/2004
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Fwd: Aquatic-Plants Digest FRE...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3627 From: harryfisherman Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3628 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Lake Malawi Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3629 From: T. Lee Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Dark Patches on Caudal Fin
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3630 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3631 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3632 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Lake Malawi Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3633 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Lake Malawi Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3634 From: Patrick Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3635 From: harry perry Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.To Edith
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3636 From: harry perry Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario DarioTo Patrick.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3637 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3638 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Dark Patches on Caudal Fin
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3639 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Correct Feeding Time?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3640 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3641 From: T. Lee Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Dark Patches on Caudal Fin
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3642 From: utacutie Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Bleeding gills?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3643 From: Patrick Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3644 From: Cyndy Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Hospital tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3645 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Dave Barry's Pet Project or Dave Barry Does Fish!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3646 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3647 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3648 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Bleeding gills?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3649 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3650 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: 10 gallon suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3651 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3652 From: salt150g Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3653 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Some Useful Tips - Courtesy Other Group of which i am a member !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3654 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Hospital tank?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3655 From: Patrick Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3656 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3657 From: Patrick Date: 7/19/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3658 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Novo colunista no forum do grupo!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3659 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3660 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3661 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3662 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 10 gallon tank..
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3663 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: only a 10 gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3664 From: questnjurny Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3665 From: questnjurny Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3666 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3667 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3668 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3669 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3670 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Activated carbon: what is the process to make?How to confirmed its
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3671 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3672 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: African Cichlid Setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3673 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: New Pics Uploaded!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3674 From: questnjurny Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3675 From: Seti Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3676 From: Seti Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: Activated carbon: what is the process to make?How to confirmed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3677 From: Scorp1on Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: African Cichlid Setup
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3678 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: Saltwater
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3679 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3680 From: questnjurny Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3681 From: paul helms Date: 7/20/2004
Subject: Re: Activated carbon: what is the process to make?How to confirmed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3682 From: Robert Thompson Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 308
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3683 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Hey, ya! =))
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3684 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Hey, ya! =))
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3685 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Hey, ya! =))
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3686 From: Tim Walker Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: 10 gallon suggestions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3687 From: Patrick Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Hey, ya! =))
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3689 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3690 From: Scorp1on Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3691 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Los Angeles Area Shops
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3692 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3693 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3694 From: Patrick Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3695 From: Aaron Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Los Angeles Area Shops
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3696 From: Aaron Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Peat Moss (was - Re: Planted Tank Substrate)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3697 From: Aaron Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3698 From: Aaron Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3699 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was RE: Hey, ya! =))
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3700 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Peat Moss (was - Re: Planted Tank Substrate)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3701 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3702 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was RE: Hey, ya! =))
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3703 From: Julie Date: 7/21/2004
Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was RE: Hey, ya! =))
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3704 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/22/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3705 From: Tim Walker Date: 7/22/2004
Subject: Sexing Bolivian Rams.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3706 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/22/2004
Subject: Banco de Dados sobre Discos! Por Julio (jccsfilho)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3707 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/22/2004
Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3708 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/22/2004
Subject: Re: Sexing Bolivian Rams.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3709 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/22/2004
Subject: Planted Tank Substrate to question about algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3710 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/22/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate to question about algae
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3711 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/22/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate to question about...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3712 From: fishtankbabe Date: 7/23/2004
Subject: Pitcure on the home page
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3713 From: keithblackketter Date: 7/23/2004
Subject: baby male guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3714 From: Aaron Date: 7/23/2004
Subject: Re: Pitcure on the home page
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3715 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/23/2004
Subject: to any endler owners
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3716 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/23/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3717 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/23/2004
Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was R...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3718 From: paul helms Date: 7/23/2004
Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was R...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3719 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/23/2004
Subject: Re: to any endler owners
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3720 From: dawnmvo Date: 7/23/2004
Subject: catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3721 From: Ed Feher Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate to question about...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3722 From: Elyse Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: to any endler owners
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3723 From: Patrick Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3724 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: GOLDFISH
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3725 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: to any endler owners
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3726 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: to any endler owners
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3727 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3728 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: Substrates
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3729 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/24/2004
Subject: Re: to any endler owners
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3730 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/25/2004
Subject: Re: Plecos and ponds
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3731 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/25/2004
Subject: Re: Virus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3732 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/25/2004
Subject: Re: to any endler owners
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3733 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/25/2004
Subject: More Than You Ever Wanted to Know . . .
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3734 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/26/2004
Subject: Greetings like to introduce myself
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3735 From: joequality1980 Date: 7/26/2004
Subject: prawn/lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3736 From: Robb Rouse Date: 7/26/2004
Subject: Re: Greetings like to introduce myself
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3737 From: Tim Walker Date: 7/26/2004
Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3738 From: paul helms Date: 7/27/2004
Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3739 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/27/2004
Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3740 From: joequality1980 Date: 7/27/2004
Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3741 From: Seti Date: 7/27/2004
Subject: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3742 From: renee31477 Date: 7/27/2004
Subject: fish that threatened national security...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3743 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/27/2004
Subject: Re: fish that threatened national security...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3744 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 7/27/2004
Subject: quaranteening cray fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3745 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/27/2004
Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3746 From: questnjurny Date: 7/28/2004
Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3747 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/28/2004
Subject: Good Starter Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3748 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/28/2004
Subject: Betta old age?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3749 From: Seti Date: 7/28/2004
Subject: Re: Good Starter Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3750 From: Patrick Date: 7/28/2004
Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3751 From: debgspz Date: 7/28/2004
Subject: Large Snail Eggs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3752 From: Seti Date: 7/28/2004
Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3753 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/28/2004
Subject: Re: Good Starter Plants
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3754 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Re: Greetings like to introduce myself
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3755 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: algae back!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3756 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: 2 Nanos reef´s in forum!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3757 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Re: baby male guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3758 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Betta/Mirror
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3759 From: Keith blackketter Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Re: baby male guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3760 From: Angela Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3761 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: I think one of my mollies is dying
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3762 From: paul helms Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3763 From: paul helms Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3764 From: paul helms Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3765 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3766 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 7/29/2004
Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3767 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Foi adicionado no forum a matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi para o
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3768 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: filter suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3769 From: frbstrd@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3770 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no forum a mat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3771 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no forum a mat
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3772 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3773 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3774 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Betta/Mirror
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3775 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3776 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: baby male guppies
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3777 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: algae back!!!!endless battle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3778 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3779 From: gorhka Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3780 From: paul helms Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: algae back!!!!endless battle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3781 From: paul helms Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3782 From: paul helms Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3783 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3784 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3785 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: algae back!!!!endless battle
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3786 From: bryants4god Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3787 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3788 From: Patrick Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3789 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: taking care of your aquarium plants a few questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3790 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3791 From: Patrick Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3792 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3793 From: Aaron Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Foi adicionado no forum a matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi par
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3794 From: bryants4god Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3795 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3796 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3797 From: Aaron Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3798 From: Aaron Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3799 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3800 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3801 From: bryants4god Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3802 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3803 From: Patrick Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3804 From: Lisa Wells Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3805 From: harry perry Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Algae, an interesting challenge.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3806 From: harry perry Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Algae, an interesting challenge.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3807 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3808 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3809 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3810 From: harry perry Date: 7/30/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3811 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3812 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3813 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3814 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3815 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3816 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3817 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: dyed fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3818 From: harry perry Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3819 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3820 From: wizard Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Help Plzzzzzzzzzzzz
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3821 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3822 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3823 From: trikashaivism Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Striped Raphael Catfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3824 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3825 From: harry perry Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3826 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3827 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3828 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: snails terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3829 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Foi adicionado no forum a
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3830 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3831 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: snails terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3832 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3833 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3834 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3835 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3836 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3837 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3838 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3839 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: snails terri
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3840 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3841 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3842 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3843 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3844 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3845 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3846 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3847 From: Dozer Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3848 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3849 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3850 From: Aaron Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3851 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3852 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3853 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3854 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: attn Terri Re : snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3855 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3856 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3857 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3858 From: Lisa Wells Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3859 From: utacutie Date: 7/31/2004
Subject: Cycling question



Group: AquaticLife Message: 237 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/3/2004
Subject: Re: Best wishes for the new year 2004
Happy fishy New Year!
Thank you all very much for making last year so fun to learn about
fishkeeping. I apologize for the not getting rid of the spammers &
OFF TOPIC POSTS sooner. I have made changes in hopes of preventing
any further such incidents. I am glad to see most of you you have
stayed, unfortunatly it appears that the spammers have scared off
more than a dozen serious aquarists, and again, for this I apologize.
Thanks, Aaron


--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, PRABHU G P L
<gplp60@v...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I WISH ALL MEMBERS A HAPPYA AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR 2004. LET THE
NEW YEAR INTRODUCE MORE AND MORE AQUARIA FREINDS WITH THE NEW
THINKING AND IDIOLOGIES FOR THE SUCCESS OF THIS GOOD HOBBY. I WISH
ALL MEMBERS INTRODUCE MORE AND MORE AQUA PLANTED AQUARIA TO MAKE THE
GLASS HOUSE MORE ATTRACTIVE AND GREEN.
>
>
> PRABHU GPL
Group: AquaticLife Message: 238 From: jshree99 Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Best wishes for the new year 2004
Wishing everyone a Happy and Prosperous New Year. Glad to see this
group.

I have 18 bettas. One died yesterday. Poor fellow had become so
skinny and weak over the past few weeks. I didn't know what to do.
I finally treated him with Melafix. He seemed to improve after a day
but may be it was too late.

Hope all your fishes have a healthy 2004

J

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
> Happy fishy New Year!
> Thank you all very much for making last year so fun to learn about
> fishkeeping. I apologize for the not getting rid of the spammers &
> OFF TOPIC POSTS sooner. I have made changes in hopes of preventing
> any further such incidents. I am glad to see most of you you have
> stayed, unfortunatly it appears that the spammers have scared off
> more than a dozen serious aquarists, and again, for this I
apologize.
> Thanks, Aaron
>
>
> --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, PRABHU G P L
> <gplp60@v...> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I WISH ALL MEMBERS A HAPPYA AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR 2004. LET
THE
> NEW YEAR INTRODUCE MORE AND MORE AQUARIA FREINDS WITH THE NEW
> THINKING AND IDIOLOGIES FOR THE SUCCESS OF THIS GOOD HOBBY. I WISH
> ALL MEMBERS INTRODUCE MORE AND MORE AQUA PLANTED AQUARIA TO MAKE
THE
> GLASS HOUSE MORE ATTRACTIVE AND GREEN.
> >
> >
> > PRABHU GPL
Group: AquaticLife Message: 239 From: Kari Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Hello, I'm new to the group and need to ask for help
I have a 29 gallon fresh water tank and 2 1/2 beta tanks. I'm having
trouble with the PH, When it comes out of the tap it is at 7.4. I
have tried to lower the PH with the powder stuff but nothing is
working. Can anyone help me?
Thank you
Kari
Group: AquaticLife Message: 240 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Baby Guppies!
 
Hi there.. We finally have our 15 gallon tank that is now going to be an all Guppy tank ready to go.   It was an existing tank and all water levels are perfect... temp is at 78-80 etc etc.. ( we checked it ourselves and then took a sample to our LFS to double check it)
 
My question is this. I have 4 adult guppies in one of our community tanks that will be moved in there today, and will be adding a few more each week until we have the desired number. But I have 28 babies that are a week old today in my "baby" tank.  If I put the babies in the "guppy" tank with the 4 adults, do you think that they are old enough to get outta the way of the big ones? They are already top swimmers, and move fast when I fuss with the basket, plants etc. I do not want to put them in to early and have the adults eat them, but they appear ready to me.
 
The only concern I have is that I have no live plants in that tank yet... many silk, cloth and plastic plants including some floating as well as decorations for them to hide in etc..
 
I asked the owner of our LPS who is great and never pulls any punches etc.  ( I breed mollies and swordtails for him and will probably start selling my guppies to him also) But when I asked him about putting the babies in the tank he was not sure as he has never raised or bred guppies and didn't want to give me the wrong info. All he could tell me was that when he gets his guppies in there are always pregnant ones and if they have babies the others eat them as soon as they are born and he just lets it go as long as their are no small kids in the store watching etc...... He actually told me to check with you all..... LOL
 
ANY information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  I would love to set them free in the tank, but would hate to have them all disappear right before my eyes if another week or 2 would make a big difference!!
 
Thank you,
       Kelly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 241 From: charlieinthewoodsairsoft Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
i got a pregnant guppy and a pregnant tetra should i put them in the
same trap its made for guppys and any fish of the size
Group: AquaticLife Message: 242 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Baby Guppies!
Hi Kelly,

I leave my fry in their own aquarium or isolated in a net breeder for
at least 1 Month. The main purpose is to Maximize their survivability
as well as the added benifit of being able to feed them seperatly
from the adults, as they have greater demanding nutrional
requirements, i.e. baby brine shrimp, more frequent feedings, etc....

The greatest advantage to keeping fry seperate maybe thier increased
growth rate. This can be accomplised several ways;
1) raise their temp up to 82 degrees F,
2) leave their lights on up to 16 hours a day,
3) decrease the amount of turbulance in the water by reducing the
flow rate of the filters and minimize the force they must swim
against. - I do this by using only sponge/foam filters w/ air pumps.
The concept is as simple as balacing a checkbook,
if energy in (food) = energy out (effort required to swim) then they
will grow at an "average" rate [checkbook balances].
if the energy in is less than energy out (i.e. not enough food
and/or they are struggiling to keep up with the water current) than
they will develop at a much slower than average rate [checking
account overdraft/deficit].
if the energy in is greater than energy out than they should grow at
a much greater than average rate [checking account surplus]
This is based on the theory that energy is finite or limited by the
givin parameters.

Various live foods are available for the fry to meet their high
nutrional demands. Keeping the water quality pristine and changing at
least 10% daily has been my goal w/ raising fry. I seperate the Males
& Females as soon as I can tell the differance between them, this
allows for selective breeding.

One of the group members, Mike Reed, has some excellent food
specially formulated for fry as well as videos on raising and feeding
the fry, you can find a link to his website in the Links section on
the Left side of the group page.

Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
<dreamz64@r...> wrote:
>
> Hi there.. We finally have our 15 gallon tank that is now going to
be an all
> Guppy tank ready to go. It was an existing tank and all water
levels are
> perfect... temp is at 78-80 etc etc.. ( we checked it ourselves and
then
> took a sample to our LFS to double check it)
>
> My question is this. I have 4 adult guppies in one of our community
tanks
> that will be moved in there today, and will be adding a few more
each week
> until we have the desired number. But I have 28 babies that are a
week old
> today in my "baby" tank. If I put the babies in the "guppy" tank
with the 4
> adults, do you think that they are old enough to get outta the way
of the
> big ones? They are already top swimmers, and move fast when I fuss
with the
> basket, plants etc. I do not want to put them in to early and have
the
> adults eat them, but they appear ready to me.
>
> The only concern I have is that I have no live plants in that tank
yet...
> many silk, cloth and plastic plants including some floating as well
as
> decorations for them to hide in etc..
>
> I asked the owner of our LPS who is great and never pulls any
punches etc.
> ( I breed mollies and swordtails for him and will probably start
selling my
> guppies to him also) But when I asked him about putting the babies
in the
> tank he was not sure as he has never raised or bred guppies and
didn't want
> to give me the wrong info. All he could tell me was that when he
gets his
> guppies in there are always pregnant ones and if they have babies
the others
> eat them as soon as they are born and he just lets it go as long as
their
> are no small kids in the store watching etc...... He actually told
me to
> check with you all..... LOL
>
> ANY information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I
would love
> to set them free in the tank, but would hate to have them all
disappear
> right before my eyes if another week or 2 would make a big
difference!!
>
> Thank you,
> Kelly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 243 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
The pregnant Guppy should be ok in the breeding trap, you'll know
when she is close to being ready by seeing eyes or dark spots near
the back bottom part of her belly or Gavid spot.

Tetras however are not Livebearers and should not be put in traps.
Tetras will lay eggs on various surfaces in aquarium wherever their
instincts tell them is best and safe. If you have a seperate small
Materintty Tank setup, you could transfer the female there to lay her
eggs so they and the hatchlings won't get eaten.

Materity traps can be be extremly stressful and that is why I only
use seperate 10 gallon Materinty/Fry tanks. It gives plenty of room
for expectant fish to swim and find plenty of safe hiding spaces.
Plus it serves dual purpose of fry grow out tank once the mother is
done delivering and returned to the main tank.

Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In
FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "charlieinthewoodsairs
oft" <charlieinthewoodsairsoft@y...> wrote:
> i got a pregnant guppy and a pregnant tetra should i put them in
the
> same trap its made for guppys and any fish of the size
Group: AquaticLife Message: 244 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Hi Aaron - H.N.Y 2004 !

Nice to see you back in the group.

I would like to inform you that my angles spawned
again, ( in the community tank itself ) and this time
after the young fry were moving around i moved about
15 of them to a small 6 gall tank with a sponge filter
and a rock covered with java moss and a heather.

I raised the tempr to about 28'C. and filled it with
water from the community tank. all but two (babies)
Fry's have survived which i want to bring them up.

My questions are

(1) I feed them crused tetra flakes twice a day. Can i
give them frozen brine shrimp as well ??

(2) Also the water has reduced and wanted to know if i
can pour in new water which is about the same temp or
slightly warmer or do i move in water from my
community tank.

(3) How long should the light be kept on at present i
have it on for about 13 hrs a day ??

(4) I have set up a seperate 16gal tank for my
breeding angles which has been running for about 1
month now. My LFS told not to have any gravel in the
tank since the fry gets stuck in it and will die if
not seen by the parents. What should i do ?? Also
since i have not put any fishes there, can i directly
put my breeding pair of angles into it ??

Or since i feel they have got acclamatised to the
current 55gal tank, i want to leave them there and
instead move the other fishes likes

my 2 black angles ( the most aggressive in my tank ) 1
pair congo tetras,1 pair golden gouramies into my
16gal tank ??

Since all these are big fishes and can defend
themselves against the angles.

Then i will be left with only neons, cardinas, corys,
and rasboras and widow tetras and bleeding hearts in
my 55 gal tank. Will these eat the young ones from my
angles or will my angles be able to gaurd them from
these fishes ??

I await your guidance in this matter ??

Best regards
SuNnY !



__________________________________
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Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
Group: AquaticLife Message: 245 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/4/2004
Subject: Re: Hello, I'm new to the group and need to ask for help
Hi Kari,

Welcome to the group and Happy New Year.

I have had the same trouble w/ tap water before. Now I only use R/O
becuse I found out the city puts more than just chlorine and
Chloramines into the recycled water here and it cannot all be removed
w/ additives and treatments.

For pH I use a product from KENT called pH Stable (looks like Baking
Soda) and it works great. I have previously used Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals brand Pond Care pH Down liquid, this stuff is super
concentrated and only takes 1ml per 10 gallons. I have about 15.85
ounces left in a 16 ounce bottle if you want some, I won't be using
it anymore, it works a little too well.

Your water may be limited by its pH buffering capacity, which I
myself do not fully understand - any chemists in the group?

I recommend getting your water checked for all the possible tests
your LFS can do. The important parameters include; pH, General
Hardness (GH), Carbonate Hardness (KH), Calcium, Salinity, Ammonia
(NH3)/Ammonium (NH4), NitrIte/NitrAte as well as others that are only
really important if you have Live Plants, O2, Co2, Iron, Phosphates,
etc... All these are good to know and worth the investment of a test
kit. It is very helpful to include all the parameters when posting
questions regarding water quality so that we can can give the most
accurate help/best possible educated guesses or S.W.A.G. (Scientific
Wild Asterix Guess). ;^)

Hope that Helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Kari"
<storm_1998_2000@y...> wrote:
> I have a 29 gallon fresh water tank and 2 1/2 beta tanks. I'm
having
> trouble with the PH, When it comes out of the tap it is at 7.4. I
> have tried to lower the PH with the powder stuff but nothing is
> working. Can anyone help me?
> Thank you
> Kari
Group: AquaticLife Message: 246 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Hi Sunny,

Thank you and Happy New Year to you to. I have been away on vacation
out of the Country for the Holidays and did not have internet access
in Mexico.

I have not yet kept Angels, but will give my best guesses based on
the fish I have succesfully bred.

Congratulations on the succesful spawning of your Angel pair! What
kind/colors are the happy parents? Have you raised any of the Angel
fry before? Good to hear you have a seperate Fry tank, that is a
great start.

> (1) I feed them crused tetra flakes twice a day. Can i
> give them frozen brine shrimp as well ??

Baby Brine Shrimp (BBS) is the only starter food I have used, frozen
brine shrimp are usally only Adults which are as much as 98% water
and have little or no nutrional value as well as being possibly to
large for fry to eat & safely digest or could cause gastrointestinal
disorders or bloating. They do sell frozen baby brine shrimp,
however, I still highly recommend hatching your own.

One of the group members, Mike Reed, has some excellant fry foods
available on his internet site - http://www.mreed.com/ - I use the
powder mixed w/ various crushed flakes like spirulina and any highly
nutritous product you can find that is high in protien content. I
feed my fry every 2 hours if I'm home, small frequent feedings are
best. Their bellys should always look full. In addition to BBS, there
are about a dozen other LIVE Foods that you can culture and are
superior to pet store dry foods.

-------------------------------------------------------------
?#(2) Also the water has reduced and wanted to know if i
> can pour in new water which is about the same temp or
> slightly warmer or do i move in water from my
> community tank.

I like to change a minimum of 10% daily in the small tanks. For more
stable water parameters you can mix fresh new treated water with
already fully cycled main tank water. This will reduce the mini-
cycles that can be caused by larger water changes w/ new water only,
thereby reducing the stress on your fry.
---------------------------------------------------------------
> (3) How long should the light be kept on at present i
> have it on for about 13 hrs a day ??

I recommend a minimum 12 hours to a maximum 16 hours of light per day.
It is best to have lights on timers so they are on & off at the same
time every day to give fish (& plants) a consistent and stable
pattern to minimize stress and promote good health. There needs to be
a minimum 8 hours of complete darkness for the fish to sleep.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

> (4a) I have set up a seperate 16gal tank for my
> breeding angles which has been running for about 1
> month now. My LFS told not to have any gravel in the
> tank since the fry gets stuck in it and will die if
> not seen by the parents. What should i do ??
(4b) Also since i have not put any fishes there, can i directly
> put my breeding pair of angles into it ??

Not having any Gravel is a good Idea for breeding, just lots of Live
Plants and some hiding spaces. I have seen my fry get stuck in the
gravel and possibly held there by the Under Gravel Filter (UGF).
There instinct is to dive down and hide for protection but then they
get stuck. Also a smooth glass bottom is easier to keep clean. Some
people even paint the outside of the bottom black ( as well as the
back). Gravel is typically just a decoration anyway unless you have
Live Plants or an UGF. You can get around not having gravel by using
floating or loose plants like Hornwort, Anachris, Java Moss, etc....
and with sponge/foam filters for biological filtration.

Has the water been through a fishless cycle? if not than it will
still need to cycle which will cause more stress to the breeding pair.
It would be best to use your aggresive black angels to cycle the
water first and add conditioners like Bio-Spira and Cycle to help
speed up the process. Additionally, you can seed the filters by
letting them run in the established tank for several days.
------------------------------------------------------------

(5) Or since i feel they have got acclamatised to the
> current 55gal tank, i want to leave them there and
> instead move the other fishes likes my 2 black angles ( the most
aggressive in my tank ) 1 pair congo tetras,1 pair golden gouramies
into my 16gal tank............. ??

I would only move the breeding pair once the Tank is ready. They will
feel safer and more relaxed having the tank all to themselves. Moving
all the other fish will only cause that many more fish to be
needlessly stressed and possibly increase the aggressiveness of the
black Angeles due to the smaller more confined environment as they
claim territory. Plus, you will be overcrowded by adding 6 large fish
into a small tank.
------------------------------------------------------------
(6)Will these eat the young ones from my angles or will my angles be
able to gaurd them from these fishes - neons, cardinals, corys,
and rasboras and widow tetras and bleeding hearts ??

Tetras are closely related to Pirannas (spelling?) and will eat
anything they can fit in their mouth. Corys are not as likely to eat
fry, but I sold both of my mating pairs just to be safe. Rasboras
usally keep to themselves near the top of the tank anyway, but again,
not worth the risk of finding out the hard way.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Summarry of Answers:
(1) NO, I would NOT
(2) 1/2 & 1/2 would be safe
(3) 12-16 hours a day
(4a) NO Gravel is a good Idea for breeding
(4b) Not unless it is fully cycled
(5) No, only move the breeding pair
(6) Not worth the risk
--------------------------------------------------------
Thats a very nice assortment of fish you have. Do your Angels ever
snack on the small Tetras?

Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
<sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
> Hi Aaron - H.N.Y 2004 !
>
> Nice to see you back in the group.
>
> I would like to inform you that my angles spawned
> again, ( in the community tank itself ) and this time
> after the young fry were moving around i moved about
> 15 of them to a small 6 gall tank with a sponge filter
> and a rock covered with java moss and a heather.
>
> I raised the tempr to about 28'C. and filled it with
> water from the community tank. all but two (babies)
> Fry's have survived which i want to bring them up.
>
> My questions are
>
> (1) I feed them crused tetra flakes twice a day. Can i
> give them frozen brine shrimp as well ??
>
> (2) Also the water has reduced and wanted to know if i
> can pour in new water which is about the same temp or
> slightly warmer or do i move in water from my
> community tank.
>
> (3) How long should the light be kept on at present i
> have it on for about 13 hrs a day ??
>
> (4) I have set up a seperate 16gal tank for my
> breeding angles which has been running for about 1
> month now. My LFS told not to have any gravel in the
> tank since the fry gets stuck in it and will die if
> not seen by the parents. What should i do ?? Also
> since i have not put any fishes there, can i directly
> put my breeding pair of angles into it ??
>
> Or since i feel they have got acclamatised to the
> current 55gal tank, i want to leave them there and
> instead move the other fishes likes my 2 black angles ( the most
aggressive in my tank ) 1 pair congo tetras,1 pair golden gouramies
into my 16gal tank ??
>
> Since all these are big fishes and can defend
> themselves against the angles.
>
> Then i will be left with only neons, cardinas, corys,
> and rasboras and widow tetras and bleeding hearts in
> my 55 gal tank. Will these eat the young ones from my
> angles or will my angles be able to gaurd them from
> these fishes ??
>
> I await your guidance in this matter ??
>
> Best regards
> SuNnY !
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
Group: AquaticLife Message: 247 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Hi Aaron - Good day !

Thanks for the various clarifications shall do the
needful !!

> Thats a very nice assortment of fish you have. Do
> your Angels ever snack on the small Tetras?

Earlier yes i lost about 2 -3 in the nights but then
maybe the neons got smarter and managed to hide in the
plants or so.. *wink*

Have a nice day....SuNnY !



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
Group: AquaticLife Message: 248 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Hi Sunil,
 
For angel's new born fries, feed them young shrimps hatched from its egg.  They grow faster and after 15days you may feed tubifex worms cut into small pieces. 
 
 
The pairs can be again placed in the community tank.  Not necessary to keep them apart.
 
Mosquito larvae and adult Brine Shrimps are very good food for the Adult angels to be ready for second spawn within three weeks.
 
I used to keep the Male angel to take care of the young ones in a separate tank till it swim very freely.  Male angel keep the young ones in its mouth when it anticipates any danger.
 
My opinion is not from any books but from my own experience.
 
with regards
 
Prabhu GO P L
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding

Hi Aaron - H.N.Y 2004 !

Nice to see you back in the group.

I would like to inform you that my angles spawned
again, ( in the community tank itself ) and this time
after the young fry were moving around i moved about
15 of them to a small 6 gall tank with a sponge filter
and a rock covered with java moss and a heather.

I raised the tempr to about 28'C. and filled it with
water from the community tank. all but two (babies)
Fry's have survived which i want to bring them up.

My questions are

(1) I feed them crused tetra flakes twice a day. Can i
give them frozen brine shrimp as well ??

(2) Also the water has reduced and wanted to know if i
can pour in new water which is about the same temp or
slightly warmer or do i move in water from my
community tank.

(3) How long should the light be kept on at present i
have it on for about 13 hrs a day ??

(4) I have set up a seperate 16gal tank for my
breeding angles which has been running for about 1
month now. My LFS told not to have any gravel in the
tank since the fry gets stuck in it and will die if
not seen by the parents. What should i do ?? Also
since i have not put any fishes there, can i directly
put my breeding pair of angles into it ??

Or since i feel they have got acclamatised to the
current 55gal tank, i want to leave them there and
instead move the other fishes likes

my 2 black angles ( the most aggressive in my tank ) 1
pair congo tetras,1 pair golden gouramies into my
16gal tank ??

Since all these are big fishes and can defend
themselves against the angles.

Then i will be left with only neons, cardinas, corys,
and rasboras and widow tetras and bleeding hearts in
my 55 gal tank. Will these eat the young ones from my
angles or will my angles be able to gaurd them from
these fishes ??

I await  your guidance in this matter ??

Best regards
SuNnY !



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003



Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife Message: 249 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Guppy and neon tetra breeding
Hi Prabhumam,

Thanks for your guidance and advise shall do the
needful. Would like to know more about your experience
in future as well.

Best regards
Sunil

--- PRABHU G P L <gplp60@...> wrote:
> Hi Sunil,
>
> For angel's new born fries, feed them young shrimps
> hatched from its egg. They grow faster and after
> 15days you may feed tubifex worms cut into small
> pieces.
>
>
> The pairs can be again placed in the community tank.
> Not necessary to keep them apart.
>
> Mosquito larvae and adult Brine Shrimps are very
> good food for the Adult angels to be ready for
> second spawn within three weeks.
>
> I used to keep the Male angel to take care of the
> young ones in a separate tank till it swim very
> freely. Male angel keep the young ones in its mouth
> when it anticipates any danger.
>
> My opinion is not from any books but from my own
> experience.
>
> with regards
>
> Prabhu GO P L
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sunil kamath
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
> Guppy and neon tetra breeding
>
>
> Hi Aaron - H.N.Y 2004 !
>
> Nice to see you back in the group.
>
> I would like to inform you that my angles spawned
> again, ( in the community tank itself ) and this
> time
> after the young fry were moving around i moved
> about
> 15 of them to a small 6 gall tank with a sponge
> filter
> and a rock covered with java moss and a heather.
>
> I raised the tempr to about 28'C. and filled it
> with
> water from the community tank. all but two
> (babies)
> Fry's have survived which i want to bring them up.
>
> My questions are
>
> (1) I feed them crused tetra flakes twice a day.
> Can i
> give them frozen brine shrimp as well ??
>
> (2) Also the water has reduced and wanted to know
> if i
> can pour in new water which is about the same temp
> or
> slightly warmer or do i move in water from my
> community tank.
>
> (3) How long should the light be kept on at
> present i
> have it on for about 13 hrs a day ??
>
> (4) I have set up a seperate 16gal tank for my
> breeding angles which has been running for about 1
> month now. My LFS told not to have any gravel in
> the
> tank since the fry gets stuck in it and will die
> if
> not seen by the parents. What should i do ?? Also
> since i have not put any fishes there, can i
> directly
> put my breeding pair of angles into it ??
>
> Or since i feel they have got acclamatised to the
> current 55gal tank, i want to leave them there and
> instead move the other fishes likes
>
> my 2 black angles ( the most aggressive in my tank
> ) 1
> pair congo tetras,1 pair golden gouramies into my
> 16gal tank ??
>
> Since all these are big fishes and can defend
> themselves against the angles.
>
> Then i will be left with only neons, cardinas,
> corys,
> and rasboras and widow tetras and bleeding hearts
> in
> my 55 gal tank. Will these eat the young ones from
> my
> angles or will my angles be able to gaurd them
> from
> these fishes ??
>
> I await your guidance in this matter ??
>
> Best regards
> SuNnY !
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
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>
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>
>
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>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>
>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 250 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Angel Fry (was - Guppy and neon tetra breeding)
Here are web sites I just found about raising Angels -
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ephotofish/
http://www.angelswest.com
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
<sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
> Hi Aaron - H.N.Y 2004 !
>
> Nice to see you back in the group.
>
> I would like to inform you that my angles spawned
> again, ( in the community tank itself ) and this time
> after the young fry were moving around i moved about
> 15 of them to a small 6 gall tank with a sponge filter
> and a rock covered with java moss and a heather.
>
> I raised the tempr to about 28'C. and filled it with
> water from the community tank. all but two (babies)
> Fry's have survived which i want to bring them up.
>
> My questions are
>
> (1) I feed them crused tetra flakes twice a day. Can i
> give them frozen brine shrimp as well ??
>
> (2) Also the water has reduced and wanted to know if i
> can pour in new water which is about the same temp or
> slightly warmer or do i move in water from my
> community tank.
>
> (3) How long should the light be kept on at present i
> have it on for about 13 hrs a day ??
>
> (4) I have set up a seperate 16gal tank for my
> breeding angles which has been running for about 1
> month now. My LFS told not to have any gravel in the
> tank since the fry gets stuck in it and will die if
> not seen by the parents. What should i do ?? Also
> since i have not put any fishes there, can i directly
> put my breeding pair of angles into it ??
>
> Or since i feel they have got acclamatised to the
> current 55gal tank, i want to leave them there and
> instead move the other fishes likes
>
> my 2 black angles ( the most aggressive in my tank ) 1
> pair congo tetras,1 pair golden gouramies into my
> 16gal tank ??
>
> Since all these are big fishes and can defend
> themselves against the angles.
>
> Then i will be left with only neons, cardinas, corys,
> and rasboras and widow tetras and bleeding hearts in
> my 55 gal tank. Will these eat the young ones from my
> angles or will my angles be able to gaurd them from
> these fishes ??
>
> I await your guidance in this matter ??
>
> Best regards
> SuNnY !
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
Group: AquaticLife Message: 251 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/5/2004
Subject: Re: Angel Fry (was - Guppy and neon tetra breeding)
wow, thanks Aaron !!

--- "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...>
wrote:
> Here are web sites I just found about raising Angels
> -
> http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ephotofish/
> http://www.angelswest.com
> Aaron
>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> sunil kamath
> <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Aaron - H.N.Y 2004 !
> >
> > Nice to see you back in the group.
> >
> > I would like to inform you that my angles spawned
> > again, ( in the community tank itself ) and this
> time
> > after the young fry were moving around i moved
> about
> > 15 of them to a small 6 gall tank with a sponge
> filter
> > and a rock covered with java moss and a heather.
> >
> > I raised the tempr to about 28'C. and filled it
> with
> > water from the community tank. all but two
> (babies)
> > Fry's have survived which i want to bring them up.
> >
> > My questions are
> >
> > (1) I feed them crused tetra flakes twice a day.
> Can i
> > give them frozen brine shrimp as well ??
> >
> > (2) Also the water has reduced and wanted to know
> if i
> > can pour in new water which is about the same temp
> or
> > slightly warmer or do i move in water from my
> > community tank.
> >
> > (3) How long should the light be kept on at
> present i
> > have it on for about 13 hrs a day ??
> >
> > (4) I have set up a seperate 16gal tank for my
> > breeding angles which has been running for about 1
> > month now. My LFS told not to have any gravel in
> the
> > tank since the fry gets stuck in it and will die
> if
> > not seen by the parents. What should i do ?? Also
> > since i have not put any fishes there, can i
> directly
> > put my breeding pair of angles into it ??
> >
> > Or since i feel they have got acclamatised to the
> > current 55gal tank, i want to leave them there and
> > instead move the other fishes likes
> >
> > my 2 black angles ( the most aggressive in my tank
> ) 1
> > pair congo tetras,1 pair golden gouramies into my
> > 16gal tank ??
> >
> > Since all these are big fishes and can defend
> > themselves against the angles.
> >
> > Then i will be left with only neons, cardinas,
> corys,
> > and rasboras and widow tetras and bleeding hearts
> in
> > my 55 gal tank. Will these eat the young ones from
> my
> > angles or will my angles be able to gaurd them
> from
> > these fishes ??
> >
> > I await your guidance in this matter ??
> >
> > Best regards
> > SuNnY !
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> > http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
Group: AquaticLife Message: 252 From: unemcia Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
Like, say... 2 Discus, 1 plecostemus, 6 neon tetras, & 3 swordtails?
How about add a few guppies in also...
Too much? Good combination? Will they get along? Someone explain 2
me.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 253 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
how big is the pleco? that makes a huge difference. they tend to get
very large (depending on species) and carry a big bio load.
amalthea
On Jan 6, 2004, at 1:21 AM, unemcia wrote:

> Like, say... 2 Discus, 1 plecostemus, 6 neon tetras, & 3 swordtails? 
> How about add a few guppies in also...
> Too much? Good combination? Will they get along? Someone explain 2
> me.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 254 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
Hi

Welcome to the group.

I have not yet kept Discus, I have kept all the other fish you
mentioned. That sounds like a nice variety that should get along
well, however you might not want the regular large pleco. Do not add
all the fish at the same time or it could cause toxic levels of
Ammonia and NitrItes to build up as the Tank cycles to handle the new
fish load.

The general rule is 1 inch of fish (measured length wise horizontally
from nose to tail across the middle)per gallon. This gets more
complicated w/ wide or deep body fish like discus. The basic
principle is mainly to do w/ the environments ability to process
biological waste. You also need to consider territory and swimming
levels so the fish are not becoming aggressive if overcrowded.
For example, if you had only the small Neon Tetras, you could keep 13
full size 1.5 inch fish for a total Fish Load of 19.5 inches,
however - since these are schooling fish that do not need individual
territories, - in theory - you could have as many as 20 or so (maybe
more?) together in a 20 gallon tank w/out any problems, so long as
you add them a few at a time and keep the water quality pristine.

I have seen Discus grow really large and they are very beautiful.
Discus will likely need at least 2 or 3 gallons per inch long since
they are such deep bodies and have more demanding requirments for
high water quality.
The Swordtails and Guppies are Livebearers that multiply rapidly and
very easily. You may only have a few to start, but if any are female,
there will be many more real soon. If you stick to just Males, I have
seen Swordtails of similar color become very territorial and the
dominant male acts aggressive towards the weaker male and chases him
around all day. Try to get different colors, Reds, Blues, Black etc
to try and prevent this.
The Neons are very colorful and do best in larger schools, 6 being a
minimum recommendation.
A regular Pleco will get way too big for a 20 gallon tank. Best to
wait until algae develops, try to control it w/ out buying more fish
by making sure water quality is excellant. If you still have
consistant algae growth, consider your lighting - are you growing
Live Plants? If so add some smaller Alge Eating Fish, such as,
Otocinculus - They only get up to 1.5 inches and you can have 2 or 3
together, plus they do not have the Nocturnal tendencies of Plecos.
Or, Dwarf Clown Plecos, max size 3 inches, but still tend to be
Nocturnal. Maybe even a true Saimese Algae Eater (SAE) however they
can get up to 6 inches and do better in small groups.

Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "unemcia"
<unemcia@y...> wrote:
> Like, say... 2 Discus, 1 plecostemus, 6 neon tetras, & 3
swordtails?
> How about add a few guppies in also...
> Too much? Good combination? Will they get along? Someone explain 2
> me.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 255 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Clown Loach issues!
I recently (2 weeks ago) established a 45 gallon freshwater tank. I
used Bio Spira to get the bacteria started and put in 5 clown loaches
to help cycle the tank. They've been doing great and I love their
playful personalities. Trouble is...last night I noticed they appear
to have developed Ick. Looks like tiny white specks on their skin.
I took one out, as it had separated itself from the school and was
hiding in one of my sword plants. Before I made the decision to
remove it, I was able to "pet" it from the top of the tank with the
tip of my finger. It didn't even flinch. I removed it to my 1
gallon hospital tank and added a drop of anti-fungal medication
(don't have the brand name off hand), per the package instructions.
I now realize that I should have halved the dose.

Well, to make a long story short...it was no longer living this
morning. I'm very glad I didn't decide to treat the other loaches!

Can anyone provide some advice about this situation? I'm aprehensive
to treat the other loaches now.

Thanks!
Jen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 256 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach issues!
Petting your fish is a no no. It removes protective slime that they need.

Clown loaches are very susceptible to ich. If you do not treat the tank with
clowns that show ick, they all will die for sure.

The best treatments will contain quinine and malachite green. Treat at half
dose according to directions. Raise water temperature to about 83 degrees.
When treatment is over, lower temp back to normal very slowly.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Clower-Brown" <skyfire_jcb@...>
To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:25 AM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Clown Loach issues!


> I recently (2 weeks ago) established a 45 gallon freshwater tank. I
> used Bio Spira to get the bacteria started and put in 5 clown loaches
> to help cycle the tank. They've been doing great and I love their
> playful personalities. Trouble is...last night I noticed they appear
> to have developed Ick. Looks like tiny white specks on their skin.
> I took one out, as it had separated itself from the school and was
> hiding in one of my sword plants. Before I made the decision to
> remove it, I was able to "pet" it from the top of the tank with the
> tip of my finger. It didn't even flinch. I removed it to my 1
> gallon hospital tank and added a drop of anti-fungal medication
> (don't have the brand name off hand), per the package instructions.
> I now realize that I should have halved the dose.
>
> Well, to make a long story short...it was no longer living this
> morning. I'm very glad I didn't decide to treat the other loaches!
>
> Can anyone provide some advice about this situation? I'm aprehensive
> to treat the other loaches now.
>
> Thanks!
> Jen
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: AquaticLife Message: 257 From: Jen Clower-Brown Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach issues!
Thanks, I will get the appropriate meds and do this tonight.
 
As for petting the fish, I guess that was a bad choice of words.  It was at the top of the tank, resting on a sword leaf near the surface.  It was very still, so I thought I should check to see if it was resting or had actually died.  I did touch it with the tip of my finger though and I guess I shouldn't have done that.
 
Should I separate all of the affected clowns for treatment (there are 4)?  I don't want to introduce meds into my main tank as I also have a zig-zag eel in there and three African Cichlid babies.  I've only got the 1 gallon tank for my hospital tank.

M Reed Enterprises <mreed@...> wrote:
Petting your fish is a no no. It removes protective slime that they need.

Clown loaches are very susceptible to ich. If you do not treat the tank with
clowns that show ick, they all will die for sure.

The best treatments will contain quinine and malachite green. Treat at half
dose according to directions. Raise water temperature to about 83 degrees.
When treatment is over, lower temp back to normal very slowly.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Clower-Brown"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:25 AM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Clown Loach issues!


> I recently (2 weeks ago) established a 45 gallon freshwater tank. I
> used Bio Spira to get the bacteria started and put in 5 clown loaches
> to help cycle the tank. They've been doing great and I love their
> playful personalities. Trouble is...last night I noticed they appear
> to have developed Ick. Looks like tiny white specks on their skin.
> I took one out, as it had separated itself from the school and was
> hiding in one of my sword plants. Before I made the decision to
> remove it, I was able to "pet" it from the top of the tank with the
> tip of my finger. It didn't even flinch. I removed it to my 1
> gallon hospital tank and added a drop of anti-fungal medication
> (don't have the brand name off hand), per the package instructions.
> I now realize that I should have halved the dose.
>
> Well, to make a long story short...it was no longer living this
> morning. I'm very glad I didn't decide to treat the other loaches!
>
> Can anyone provide some advice about this situation? I'm aprehensive
> to treat the other loaches now.
>
> Thanks!
> Jen
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>





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Group: AquaticLife Message: 258 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: Clown Loach issues!
you will also need to increase the temperature !

--- "J. Clower-Brown" <skyfire_jcb@...> wrote:
> I recently (2 weeks ago) established a 45 gallon
> freshwater tank. I
> used Bio Spira to get the bacteria started and put
> in 5 clown loaches
> to help cycle the tank. They've been doing great
> and I love their
> playful personalities. Trouble is...last night I
> noticed they appear
> to have developed Ick. Looks like tiny white specks
> on their skin.
> I took one out, as it had separated itself from the
> school and was
> hiding in one of my sword plants. Before I made the
> decision to
> remove it, I was able to "pet" it from the top of
> the tank with the
> tip of my finger. It didn't even flinch. I removed
> it to my 1
> gallon hospital tank and added a drop of anti-fungal
> medication
> (don't have the brand name off hand), per the
> package instructions.
> I now realize that I should have halved the dose.
>
> Well, to make a long story short...it was no longer
> living this
> morning. I'm very glad I didn't decide to treat the
> other loaches!
>
> Can anyone provide some advice about this situation?
> I'm aprehensive
> to treat the other loaches now.
>
> Thanks!
> Jen
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 259 From: Janet Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Question on baby fish
I have a 125 gallon goldfish tank doing well I have to say and
decided to start a tiny 10 gallon tropical tank. I kinda got
sidetracked and bought a few african dwarf frogs (so cute) and I have
two questions. What tropical fish would go well with the frogs and
also there was a tiny little stowaway fish that was in the bag with
the frogs I bought. I called the store and they said is was most
likely a baby guppy. It seems to be eating well (tropical flakes and
tiny peices of the bloodworms I am feeding the frogs) and it is
definitly pooping! LOL Do I need to be feeding it liquid food or food
marketed for fry? How big are fish when they are no longer considered
fry? I want to make sure he grows up nice and healthy. Also if I add
another fish will he get eaten? I guess that's more than two
questions but I really want my tiny little fish to live! Help! Janet
Group: AquaticLife Message: 260 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/6/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Hi Janet,

Welcome to the group.

I have not yet kept the ADFs, but they are at the top of my shopping
list. I would imagine any small, slow moving, top to mid level
swimmer should be alright. Way too often the little frogs starve to
death since they can not compete for food with the faster fish and
other bottom dwellers.

What other fish were in the tank w/ the frogs at the store when you
purchased them? If there were female guppies, then yes it is very
likely a baby guppy. If so, Baby Brine Shrimp (BBS), freshly hatched
yourself, are the best beginner food for fry. You can also crush up
any good quality flake foods w/ a high protien content, into powder
and feed a bit every few hours or so. Are the bloodworms Live, Frozen
or Feeeze died? Freeze dried smashed into powder should be OK, but
Live and frozen are not recommended for young guppies. Mike Reed has
some specialty foods for fry @ http://www.mreed.com/

Commercial Liquid fry food is not needed and rather expensive. It is
mostly an egg yolk based product. You can make your own liquid foods,
Infusia ? by boiling white potatoe or lettuce and letting it sit in
the sun for awhile, but again, not nescasary, especially for just 1
fry. Try hatching BBS, its fun if you've never had 'Sea Monkeys' as a
kid.

About 3-5 weeks depending on how fast the develop, they can be
considered Juveniles, at about 2 - 3 months they should be fully
devoloped.

Yes, the little fry will definatley be considered a nice little snack
for a bigger fish.
Do you have any Live Plants in the 10 galoon for the fry to hide in?
I keep my fry tanks full w/ Java Moss at the bottom 1/2 & Hornwort at
the Top.

That is good to hear that you have rescued a fry from the LFS, I just
adopted 13 more Black Molly Fry today. It may be worth calling to see
if there are still more fry there for you to take home and give yours
some friends to swim with. It is alot of fun watching them grow up.

Do your goldfish multiply?

Again, Welcome to the group and Thanks for joining,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Janet"
<janetlarn@y...> wrote:
> I have a 125 gallon goldfish tank doing well I have to say and
> decided to start a tiny 10 gallon tropical tank. I kinda got
> sidetracked and bought a few african dwarf frogs (so cute) and I
have
> two questions. What tropical fish would go well with the frogs and
> also there was a tiny little stowaway fish that was in the bag with
> the frogs I bought. I called the store and they said is was most
> likely a baby guppy. It seems to be eating well (tropical flakes
and
> tiny peices of the bloodworms I am feeding the frogs) and it is
> definitly pooping! LOL Do I need to be feeding it liquid food or
food
> marketed for fry? How big are fish when they are no longer
considered
> fry? I want to make sure he grows up nice and healthy. Also if I
add
> another fish will he get eaten? I guess that's more than two
> questions but I really want my tiny little fish to live! Help! Janet
Group: AquaticLife Message: 261 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Hi Aaron, Thanks for all the great info. I didn't
really see any fish in with the frogs but the one I
have is so small and almost transparent if there were
any others they would have been hard to see. I can't
take credit for bringing him home he was just scooped
up with the frogs. I am happy to have him though he is
adorable. The worms I feed the frogs are frozen, the
LFS told me that freeze dried ones can cause
intestinal blockages in the frogs. I will go and get
the BBS I have had my eye on those for a while now
anyway just to try because I was curious. My goldies
will eat that too right? To answer your question no
they haven't reproduced. I hope that doesn't happen
for a very long time! I am having enough trouble! Plus
I am just not really knowledgeable enough yet But I
will get there! I have only had the 125 goldie tank
running since october I am very new at this and have
had my share of probs so far but the big tank is
finally up and running smoothly. Especially now that I
weeded out an eyeball snatching koi that I had! He ate
the eyes out of two of my black moors before I knew it
was him. The little monster! He's lucky I didn't flush
him! LOL Thanks again, one more question how long to
snail eggs take to hatch? Janet
--- "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...>
wrote:
> Hi Janet,
>
> Welcome to the group.
>
> I have not yet kept the ADFs, but they are at the
> top of my shopping
> list. I would imagine any small, slow moving, top to
> mid level
> swimmer should be alright. Way too often the little
> frogs starve to
> death since they can not compete for food with the
> faster fish and
> other bottom dwellers.
>
> What other fish were in the tank w/ the frogs at
> the store when you
> purchased them? If there were female guppies, then
> yes it is very
> likely a baby guppy. If so, Baby Brine Shrimp (BBS),
> freshly hatched
> yourself, are the best beginner food for fry. You
> can also crush up
> any good quality flake foods w/ a high protien
> content, into powder
> and feed a bit every few hours or so. Are the
> bloodworms Live, Frozen
> or Feeeze died? Freeze dried smashed into powder
> should be OK, but
> Live and frozen are not recommended for young
> guppies. Mike Reed has
> some specialty foods for fry @ http://www.mreed.com/
>
> Commercial Liquid fry food is not needed and rather
> expensive. It is
> mostly an egg yolk based product. You can make your
> own liquid foods,
> Infusia ? by boiling white potatoe or lettuce and
> letting it sit in
> the sun for awhile, but again, not nescasary,
> especially for just 1
> fry. Try hatching BBS, its fun if you've never had
> 'Sea Monkeys' as a
> kid.
>
> About 3-5 weeks depending on how fast the develop,
> they can be
> considered Juveniles, at about 2 - 3 months they
> should be fully
> devoloped.
>
> Yes, the little fry will definatley be considered a
> nice little snack
> for a bigger fish.
> Do you have any Live Plants in the 10 galoon for the
> fry to hide in?
> I keep my fry tanks full w/ Java Moss at the bottom
> 1/2 & Hornwort at
> the Top.
>
> That is good to hear that you have rescued a fry
> from the LFS, I just
> adopted 13 more Black Molly Fry today. It may be
> worth calling to see
> if there are still more fry there for you to take
> home and give yours
> some friends to swim with. It is alot of fun
> watching them grow up.
>
> Do your goldfish multiply?
>
> Again, Welcome to the group and Thanks for joining,
> Aaron
>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> "Janet"
> <janetlarn@y...> wrote:
> > I have a 125 gallon goldfish tank doing well I
> have to say and
> > decided to start a tiny 10 gallon tropical tank. I
> kinda got
> > sidetracked and bought a few african dwarf frogs
> (so cute) and I
> have
> > two questions. What tropical fish would go well
> with the frogs and
> > also there was a tiny little stowaway fish that
> was in the bag with
> > the frogs I bought. I called the store and they
> said is was most
> > likely a baby guppy. It seems to be eating well
> (tropical flakes
> and
> > tiny peices of the bloodworms I am feeding the
> frogs) and it is
> > definitly pooping! LOL Do I need to be feeding it
> liquid food or
> food
> > marketed for fry? How big are fish when they are
> no longer
> considered
> > fry? I want to make sure he grows up nice and
> healthy. Also if I
> add
> > another fish will he get eaten? I guess that's
> more than two
> > questions but I really want my tiny little fish to
> live! Help! Janet
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 262 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Hi Janet,
Thats interesting about the freeze dried bloodworms and ADFs, I'd not
heard that before, I shall research it more before getting mine.
I'm guessing Goldfish will eat anything, if you want them to or not,
it would be fun to watch them catch the BBS.
What kind of Koi was it that was eating eyeballs? Do all Koi do this
and/or is it only affecting the Black Moors?
Considering how many hundreds of little snails I've got, I should
know that answer, but I've never really paid attention. They multiple
so fast that it is just a continous cycle - good for the Clown
Loaches. There is a website in the Snails folder of the Links section
that goes into great detail about the Apple snail and may have more
info on other types. There are even Livebearing snails, pretty cool,
to think 1 year ago I thought snails were just a pest. Now I'm
able to see them as a valuable natural resource as food and
helping keep the tank free of Algae and dead plant matter.
What kind of snails do you have? Are you raising them on purpose or
did they sneak in on Live Plants like mine did? I'd guess the eggs
take abot a week to hatch, just a guess.
Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Janet Abreu
<janetlarn@y...> wrote:
> Hi Aaron, Thanks for all the great info. I didn't
> really see any fish in with the frogs but the one I
> have is so small and almost transparent if there were
> any others they would have been hard to see. I can't
> take credit for bringing him home he was just scooped
> up with the frogs. I am happy to have him though he is
> adorable. The worms I feed the frogs are frozen, the
> LFS told me that freeze dried ones can cause
> intestinal blockages in the frogs. I will go and get
> the BBS I have had my eye on those for a while now
> anyway just to try because I was curious. My goldies
> will eat that too right? To answer your question no
> they haven't reproduced. I hope that doesn't happen
> for a very long time! I am having enough trouble! Plus
> I am just not really knowledgeable enough yet But I
> will get there! I have only had the 125 goldie tank
> running since october I am very new at this and have
> had my share of probs so far but the big tank is
> finally up and running smoothly. Especially now that I
> weeded out an eyeball snatching koi that I had! He ate
> the eyes out of two of my black moors before I knew it
> was him. The little monster! He's lucky I didn't flush
> him! LOL Thanks again, one more question how long to
> snail eggs take to hatch? Janet
Group: AquaticLife Message: 263 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
Hello,

I would recommend being careful with Discus... They are a stunning
fish, one of my faves, but im not 100% sure whether you should keep a
plec or swordtails with them (Though I may be wrong)
We only keep our discus with small shoalers such as neons and
cardinals. Ours tend to get stressed if anything bigger or more lively
is present with them but they are small, young individuals. If you keep
the tank really well planted (which discus prefer anyway) then you will
more than likely be ok.
Im not sure if anyone has mentioned but Discus are quite sensitive to
water quality, and we use RO water in our tanks at work to keep them
healthy and happy!:)

Aileen
Group: AquaticLife Message: 264 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: How many fish can I have in a 20-gallon tank??
Aileen -

Cardinals are great with discus cause they require the same water temp and
type. This is not true of neons. Rams are another good fish to keep with
discus.

Actually, most discus pros do not keep any other fish with discus and most
also do not keep discus in planted tanks. These two things have to do not
only with ease for the fishkeeper, but also with discus health.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aileen Pettigrew" <saberath@...>
To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: How many fish can I have
in a 20-gallon tank??


> Hello,
>
> I would recommend being careful with Discus... They are a stunning
> fish, one of my faves, but im not 100% sure whether you should keep a
> plec or swordtails with them (Though I may be wrong)
> We only keep our discus with small shoalers such as neons and
> cardinals. Ours tend to get stressed if anything bigger or more lively
> is present with them but they are small, young individuals. If you keep
> the tank really well planted (which discus prefer anyway) then you will
> more than likely be ok.
> Im not sure if anyone has mentioned but Discus are quite sensitive to
> water quality, and we use RO water in our tanks at work to keep them
> healthy and happy!:)
>
> Aileen
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Group: AquaticLife Message: 265 From: Rhiana Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Questions about Tiger Barbs
Hello, i just got 4 Tiger Barbs. They're in a filtered and heated
tank. The tank's temp is usually at around 68-72 degrees, though on
some cold mornings will go down to 62. I have several questions....
Ok for one, their stripes seem to fade for awhile then go back to
normal dark shade. Is this normal? Why does it happen? Also, today
they were just staying on the bottom of the tank all huddled together
looking stressed with stripes faded. They slightly cheered up when i
fed them.... so when my husband went to bed he turned off the
aquarium light in the hood and that made the fish go back to normal
and stripes went back to original color, they were swimming
around..went to the top and everything. So obviously i'm assuming
they don't like that bulb in the hood. Have any of you noticed that
your fish don't like the aquarium light? Is it just maybe that the
one i have is too bright? One more question! I feed them Tropical
Fish Flakes. What else can they eat? Would they eat the freeze dried
blood worms that i give to my Bettas as a treat? Thank you for your
time!!
Rhiana
Group: AquaticLife Message: 266 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/7/2004
Subject: Re: Questions about Tiger Barbs
Hi Rhiana,

I assume you dont have a thermostat in your tank. I
would suggest you buy one so that you can maintain the
temperature of your tank to a stable temperature of
say 28"C.

As regards to the colour fading and regaining thats
common and nothing to worry.

But Lighting, in my tank the fishes become active
whenever i turn on the light.

As regards to feeding yup they will also love the
treat of blood worms...

Hope that helps...SuNnY !

--- Rhiana <Lavenderz9@...> wrote:
> Hello, i just got 4 Tiger Barbs. They're in a
> filtered and heated
> tank. The tank's temp is usually at around 68-72
> degrees, though on
> some cold mornings will go down to 62. I have
> several questions....
> Ok for one, their stripes seem to fade for awhile
> then go back to
> normal dark shade. Is this normal? Why does it
> happen? Also, today
> they were just staying on the bottom of the tank all
> huddled together
> looking stressed with stripes faded. They slightly
> cheered up when i
> fed them.... so when my husband went to bed he
> turned off the
> aquarium light in the hood and that made the fish go
> back to normal
> and stripes went back to original color, they were
> swimming
> around..went to the top and everything. So obviously
> i'm assuming
> they don't like that bulb in the hood. Have any of
> you noticed that
> your fish don't like the aquarium light? Is it just
> maybe that the
> one i have is too bright? One more question! I
> feed them Tropical
> Fish Flakes. What else can they eat? Would they eat
> the freeze dried
> blood worms that i give to my Bettas as a treat?
> Thank you for your
> time!!
> Rhiana
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 267 From: Kari Vigneau Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Hello, I'm new to the group and need to ask for help
Thanks for your help, I finally got it to drop and it is doing very well now. Now i can go get my Dragon fish!!!
Thank you
Kari

"Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...> wrote:
Hi Kari,

Welcome to the group and Happy New Year.

I have had the same trouble w/ tap water before. Now I only use R/O
becuse I found out the city puts more than just chlorine and
Chloramines into the recycled water here and it cannot all be removed
w/ additives and treatments.

For pH I use a product from KENT called pH Stable (looks like Baking
Soda) and it works great. I have previously used Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals brand Pond Care pH Down liquid, this stuff is super
concentrated and only takes 1ml per 10 gallons. I have about 15.85
ounces left in a 16 ounce bottle if you want some, I won't be using
it anymore, it works a little too well.

Your water may be limited by its pH buffering capacity, which I
myself do not fully understand - any chemists in the group?

I recommend getting your water checked for all the possible tests
your LFS can do. The important parameters include; pH, General
Hardness (GH), Carbonate Hardness (KH), Calcium, Salinity, Ammonia
(NH3)/Ammonium (NH4), NitrIte/NitrAte as well as others that are only
really important if you have Live Plants, O2, Co2, Iron, Phosphates,
etc... All these are good to know and worth the investment of a test
kit. It is very helpful to include all the parameters when posting
questions regarding water quality so that we can can give the most
accurate help/best possible educated guesses or S.W.A.G. (Scientific
Wild Asterix Guess).    ;^)

Hope that Helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Kari"
<storm_1998_2000@y...> wrote:
> I have a 29 gallon fresh water tank and 2 1/2 beta tanks. I'm
having
> trouble with the PH, When it comes out of the tap it is at 7.4. I
> have tried to lower the PH with the powder stuff but nothing is
> working. Can anyone help me?
> Thank you
> Kari




Yahoo! Groups Links


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 268 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Hi Aaron,
I don't know what kind of koi it was I was sad to see
him go because he was beautiful. But the whole reason
I did the goldfish tank was so I could have the black
moors. Thay are just adorable! And they eat from my
hand. Of course my favorite one was the first to lose
an eye. Oh well can't have an eyeball snatcher lurking
around the slow moors ya know? Poor little guys! Happy
to say that they are both doing really well (they each
lost one eye) I treated the tank for a week with
melafix and neither fish got an infection. Both are
still eating normally and seem happy. The initial
shock was too much for me though. I cried the whole
day. I'm so attatched. I had a pleco approx 4in or so
the koi 5in and two channel catfish in there the day
the eyes turned up missing so I immediately blamed the
channel cats and the LFS said the pleco should also be
a suspect. I took all three out and gave them to the
LFS. When I got home there was another eye missing and
the only one with a mouth big enough to do it was the
koi. I did not want to believe it but it had to be
him. Koi are not supposed to be aggressive but I
think I might have caused this to happen. See I wanted
to get a few bala sharks so I got a heater and turned
the temp up (slowly) to 75-76. The tank was originally
70. Do you think the temp change caused spawning like
behavior and caused the aggression toward my moors?
Thats the only change in the tank and the koi was with
my moors since oct and I had all eyes accounted for! I
don't know. Tragic though huh? At least the little
guys are alive and well. Getting rid of the pleco
resulted in a really grimy tank so I got the snails.
They are doing okay but yesterday I bought 3 tiny
plecos to help. I don't want any one else with a big
mouth in the tank! Anyway, I'll check out the snail
link Thanks, JAnet
--- "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...>
wrote:
> Hi Janet,
> Thats interesting about the freeze dried bloodworms
> and ADFs, I'd not t I was very sad to see him go
because he was bes
> heard that beforew, I shall research it more before
> getting mine.
> I'm guessing Goldfish will eat anything, if you want
> them to or not,
> it would be fun to watch them catch the BBS.
> What kind of Koi was it that was eating eyeballs? Do
> all Koi do this
> and/or is it only affecting the Black Moors?
> Considering how many hundreds of little snails I've
> got, I should
> know that answer, but I've never really paid
> attention. They multiple
> so fast that it is just a continous cycle - good for
> the Clown
> Loaches. There is a website in the Snails folder of
> the Links section
> that goes into great detail about the Apple snail
> and may have more
> info on other types. There are even Livebearing
> snails, pretty cool,
> to think 1 year ago I thought snails were just a
> pest. Now I'm
> able to see them as a valuable natural resource as
> food and
> helping keep the tank free of Algae and dead plant
> matter.
> What kind of snails do you have? Are you raising
> them on purpose or
> did they sneak in on Live Plants like mine did? I'd
> guess the eggs
> take abot a week to hatch, just a guess.
> Hope that helps,
> Aaron
>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> Janet Abreu
> <janetlarn@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Aaron, Thanks for all the great info. I didn't
> > really see any fish in with the frogs but the one
> I
> > have is so small and almost transparent if there
> were
> > any others they would have been hard to see. I
> can't
> > take credit for bringing him home he was just
> scooped
> > up with the frogs. I am happy to have him though
> he is
> > adorable. The worms I feed the frogs are frozen,
> the
> > LFS told me that freeze dried ones can cause
> > intestinal blockages in the frogs. I will go and
> get
> > the BBS I have had my eye on those for a while now
> > anyway just to try because I was curious. My
> goldies
> > will eat that too right? To answer your question
> no
> > they haven't reproduced. I hope that doesn't
> happen
> > for a very long time! I am having enough trouble!
> Plus
> > I am just not really knowledgeable enough yet But
> I
> > will get there! I have only had the 125 goldie
> tank
> > running since october I am very new at this and
> have
> > had my share of probs so far but the big tank is
> > finally up and running smoothly. Especially now
> that I
> > weeded out an eyeball snatching koi that I had! He
> ate
> > the eyes out of two of my black moors before I
> knew it
> > was him. The little monster! He's lucky I didn't
> flush
> > him! LOL Thanks again, one more question how long
> to
> > snail eggs take to hatch? Janet
>
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 269 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: 20 gallon tank
I keep in my 20 gallon tank. 10 zebra danios, 7 cherry barbs and a Cory cat. I fully cycled my tank before adding any fish to it, and I do 20 per cent water changes weekly. I have not had one death since I started the tank. Im currently cycling a 29 gallon and a 55 gallon. I have a 150 gallon with three koi in it, since I don't keep them out back in the winter, they are getting so big. My dad got them for me many years ago. I also have a smaller tank with some feeder comets in it, whom I purchased 4 years ago, but now they share the pond with the koi and they have grown so big!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 270 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
be forewarned, those little mouths are going to get huge very quickly.
a little pleco won't stay little for very long at all...
On Jan 7, 2004, at 2:24 PM, Janet Abreu wrote:

> yesterday I bought 3 tiny
> plecos to help. I don't want any one else with a big
> mouth in the tank!


http://www.puppetterrors.com
don't be afraid to scream...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 272 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
My LFS will take them back when they get too big but I
can't do without them because my tank gets too grimy.
Thnaks! Janet
--- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
> be forewarned, those little mouths are going to get
> huge very quickly.
> a little pleco won't stay little for very long at
> all...
> On Jan 7, 2004, at 2:24 PM, Janet Abreu wrote:
>
> > yesterday I bought 3 tiny
> > plecos to help. I don't want any one else with a
> big
> > mouth in the tank!
>
>
> http://www.puppetterrors.com
> don't be afraid to scream...
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 273 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Hi Janet,


Yes definately tragic about the KOI, were you planing on starting a
pond eventually? I know the KOI could get huge, like 36" or so. How
big were the Channel Cats? I've not seen those before, but I did see
a rare catfish at a LFS in San Diego, must of been a really hard to
find kind - $350.00 asking price.
Goldfish are almost like puppy dogs - always happy to see you, will
follow you around, eat out of your hand & can be trained to do tricks.
I have seen goldfish trained to ring a bell by pulling on a string in
the tank whenever thy are hungry. Talk about training, I wonder if
the real trick is that they've trained their owner into giving them a
treat whenever they want.
Do you know what kind of snails you have? Nerite snails have been
really highly recommended for keeping the tank clean and water
sparkling cleaer.
When you say "3 tiny plecos", how tiny are we talking? I have a tiny
pleco, it is a 'Dwarf Albino Bushy Nose' very cute, always busy
cleaning and only 1/2" in size. I also have 3 'Clown Plecos', they
are somewhat nocturnal, about 1.5" - 2" with a max. size of 3".
The 'regular' type of Plecos could quickly grow up to 18" in a large
tank like your 125 gallon.
>"Getting rid of the pleco resulted in a really grimy tank..."
What do you mean by "grimy"? Goldfish themselves are really slimy
fish. How many and what size are your goldfish? What are your water
parameters?
If you mean you have a lot of Algae, consider your lighting and the
potential excessive phosphates in the water. If the light is low and
water quality is good and there is still some Algae present, you can
get Algae Eating Fish that do not get huge. In addition to the
Dwarf/Clown Plecos, there are Otocinculus that only get 1.5" in size
as well as the SAEs that can get uo to 6".
Another way to reduce Algae is w/ Live Plants that will block some of
the light and compete w/ the Algae for nutrients, the added benifit
is the Goldfish can eat certain kinds of plants for added nurtition.
Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Janet Abreu
<janetlarn@y...> wrote:
> Hi Aaron,
> I don't know what kind of koi it was I was sad to see
> him go because he was beautiful. But the whole reason
> I did the goldfish tank was so I could have the black
> moors. Thay are just adorable! And they eat from my
> hand. Of course my favorite one was the first to lose
> an eye. Oh well can't have an eyeball snatcher lurking
> around the slow moors ya know? Poor little guys! Happy
> to say that they are both doing really well (they each
> lost one eye) I treated the tank for a week with
> melafix and neither fish got an infection. Both are
> still eating normally and seem happy. The initial
> shock was too much for me though. I cried the whole
> day. I'm so attatched. I had a pleco approx 4in or so
> the koi 5in and two channel catfish in there the day
> the eyes turned up missing so I immediately blamed the
> channel cats and the LFS said the pleco should also be
> a suspect. I took all three out and gave them to the
> LFS. When I got home there was another eye missing and
> the only one with a mouth big enough to do it was the
> koi. I did not want to believe it but it had to be
> him. Koi are not supposed to be aggressive but I
> think I might have caused this to happen. See I wanted
> to get a few bala sharks so I got a heater and turned
> the temp up (slowly) to 75-76. The tank was originally
> 70. Do you think the temp change caused spawning like
> behavior and caused the aggression toward my moors?
> Thats the only change in the tank and the koi was with
> my moors since oct and I had all eyes accounted for! I
> don't know. Tragic though huh? At least the little
> guys are alive and well. Getting rid of the pleco
> resulted in a really grimy tank so I got the snails.
> They are doing okay but yesterday I bought 3 tiny
> plecos to help. I don't want any one else with a big
> mouth in the tank! Anyway, I'll check out the snail
> link Thanks, JAnet
>
Group: AquaticLife Message: 274 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Hello, I'm new to the group and need to ask for help
Hi Kari,

Your welcome, good to hear you have it under control now. What fixed
it? (usally trial & error as well as a lot patience works for me)
Has it been stable for awhile?

What is a "..Dragon fish" Sounds beautiful, maybe the next item on my
shopping list after the ADF's

Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Kari Vigneau
<storm_1998_2000@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for your help, I finally got it to drop and it is doing very
well now. Now i can go get my Dragon fish!!!
> Thank you
> Kari
>
Group: AquaticLife Message: 275 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
Hi Aaron,
I'd love to have a pond someday. And yes, I thought by
the time the koi and my comets got too big for my tank
I'd put them in a pond. Where did you get your pleco?
Are they rare? Expensive? They sound cool. The ones I
bought are maybe an inch not inc their tails, smallest
regular plecos I've seen. I know they will get bigger
but the LFS will take them back so I can get smaller
ones. I do mean algae. It is all along the walls of
the tank. I tried the algae scrubber but it didn't
really work too well. BTW the snails I have are
ramshorn snails (might not be spelled right) The LFS
recommended against the algae destroyer tablets saying
they were to dangerous. The problem isn't awful but I
don't want it to get any worse. I never even saw algae
while I had my big pleco. I didn't want to do plants
right away cause I was busy trying to keep just the
fish alive but now that things are stable(0 ammonia 0
nitrite Ph 7.5 GH 150ppm) I'd like to try some. Any
easy ones you'd reccommend? My tank is in my living
room and the blinds are always closed and my tank
lights are on between 8-12 hours a day. I have 7 Black
moors 15-20 small 1 inch comets and 2 orandas 1 red
and white and the other is yellow and black I love
that little guy so cute! Does this sound overstocked?
Let me know if you do. I got the comets only to cycle
the tank I started out with 40 of them and didn't have
the heart to get rid of the ones that survived. I know
I am a schmuck! Thanks Aaron, Janet
--- "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...>
wrote:
> Hi Janet,
>
>
> Yes definately tragic about the KOI, were you
> planing on starting a
> pond eventually? I know the KOI could get huge, like
> 36" or so. How
> big were the Channel Cats? I've not seen those
> before, but I did see
> a rare catfish at a LFS in San Diego, must of been a
> really hard to
> find kind - $350.00 asking price.
> Goldfish are almost like puppy dogs - always happy
> to see you, will
> follow you around, eat out of your hand & can be
> trained to do tricks.
> I have seen goldfish trained to ring a bell by
> pulling on a string in
> the tank whenever thy are hungry. Talk about
> training, I wonder if
> the real trick is that they've trained their owner
> into giving them a
> treat whenever they want.
> Do you know what kind of snails you have? Nerite
> snails have been
> really highly recommended for keeping the tank clean
> and water
> sparkling cleaer.
> When you say "3 tiny plecos", how tiny are we
> talking? I have a tiny
> pleco, it is a 'Dwarf Albino Bushy Nose' very cute,
> always busy
> cleaning and only 1/2" in size. I also have 3 'Clown
> Plecos', they
> are somewhat nocturnal, about 1.5" - 2" with a max.
> size of 3".
> The 'regular' type of Plecos could quickly grow up
> to 18" in a large
> tank like your 125 gallon.
> >"Getting rid of the pleco resulted in a really
> grimy tank..."
> What do you mean by "grimy"? Goldfish themselves are
> really slimy
> fish. How many and what size are your goldfish? What
> are your water
> parameters?
> If you mean you have a lot of Algae, consider your
> lighting and the
> potential excessive phosphates in the water. If the
> light is low and
> water quality is good and there is still some Algae
> present, you can
> get Algae Eating Fish that do not get huge. In
> addition to the
> Dwarf/Clown Plecos, there are Otocinculus that only
> get 1.5" in size
> as well as the SAEs that can get uo to 6".
> Another way to reduce Algae is w/ Live Plants that
> will block some of
> the light and compete w/ the Algae for nutrients,
> the added benifit
> is the Goldfish can eat certain kinds of plants for
> added nurtition.
> Hope that helps,
> Aaron
>
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> Janet Abreu
> <janetlarn@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Aaron,
> > I don't know what kind of koi it was I was sad to
> see
> > him go because he was beautiful. But the whole
> reason
> > I did the goldfish tank was so I could have the
> black
> > moors. Thay are just adorable! And they eat from
> my
> > hand. Of course my favorite one was the first to
> lose
> > an eye. Oh well can't have an eyeball snatcher
> lurking
> > around the slow moors ya know? Poor little guys!
> Happy
> > to say that they are both doing really well (they
> each
> > lost one eye) I treated the tank for a week with
> > melafix and neither fish got an infection. Both
> are
> > still eating normally and seem happy. The initial
> > shock was too much for me though. I cried the
> whole
> > day. I'm so attatched. I had a pleco approx 4in or
> so
> > the koi 5in and two channel catfish in there the
> day
> > the eyes turned up missing so I immediately blamed
> the
> > channel cats and the LFS said the pleco should
> also be
> > a suspect. I took all three out and gave them to
> the
> > LFS. When I got home there was another eye missing
> and
> > the only one with a mouth big enough to do it was
> the
> > koi. I did not want to believe it but it had to be
> > him. Koi are not supposed to be aggressive but I
> > think I might have caused this to happen. See I
> wanted
> > to get a few bala sharks so I got a heater and
> turned
> > the temp up (slowly) to 75-76. The tank was
> originally
> > 70. Do you think the temp change caused spawning
> like
> > behavior and caused the aggression toward my
> moors?
> > Thats the only change in the tank and the koi was
> with
> > my moors since oct and I had all eyes accounted
> for! I
> > don't know. Tragic though huh? At least the little
> > guys are alive and well. Getting rid of the pleco
> > resulted in a really grimy tank so I got the
> snails.
> > They are doing okay but yesterday I bought 3 tiny
> > plecos to help. I don't want any one else with a
> big
> > mouth in the tank! Anyway, I'll check out the
> snail
> > link Thanks, JAnet
> >
>
>


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 276 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, Goldfish and Plants (was - Question on baby fish)
Hi Janet,

The Albino Dwarf Bushy Nose cost $10.00 @ Wet Pets, the owner said it
was so expensive cuz there is only 1 person breeding them right now.
Hard to believe, but well worth the price since it seems to clean
24/7 and is soooo cute. :*)
The Clown Plecos are much more common, only $5.00 at Village Pet Shop.
There are a variety of Dwarf plecos available as well.

In addition to or rather than more fish, there is a great product
available - http://www.algone.com - I have had no Algae since I used
it. It took about a week to see a differance.

It is a good idea to set the lights on a Timer for maybe 6 hours to
start and slowly increase by an about an hour a week or so.

Duck weed is a great snack for Goldfish, it is a small floating plant
that multiplies rapidly. Hornwort is an easy to grow plant that is
excellent for getting rid of Algae by quickly absorbing all available
phosphates and other nutrients that are allowing Algae to grow.
Anacharis is another common easy to grow and cheap plant. Those are
good starters.

Anybody else kept goldfish?
What plants are safe and good for them (to eat)?



--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Janet Abreu
<janetlarn@y...> wrote:
> Hi Aaron,
> I'd love to have a pond someday. And yes, I thought by
> the time the koi and my comets got too big for my tank
> I'd put them in a pond. Where did you get your pleco?
> Are they rare? Expensive? They sound cool. The ones I
> bought are maybe an inch not inc their tails, smallest
> regular plecos I've seen. I know they will get bigger
> but the LFS will take them back so I can get smaller
> ones. I do mean algae. It is all along the walls of
> the tank. I tried the algae scrubber but it didn't
> really work too well. BTW the snails I have are
> ramshorn snails (might not be spelled right) The LFS
> recommended against the algae destroyer tablets saying
> they were to dangerous. The problem isn't awful but I
> don't want it to get any worse. I never even saw algae
> while I had my big pleco. I didn't want to do plants
> right away cause I was busy trying to keep just the
> fish alive but now that things are stable(0 ammonia 0
> nitrite Ph 7.5 GH 150ppm) I'd like to try some. Any
> easy ones you'd reccommend? My tank is in my living
> room and the blinds are always closed and my tank
> lights are on between 8-12 hours a day. I have 7 Black
> moors 15-20 small 1 inch comets and 2 orandas 1 red
> and white and the other is yellow and black I love
> that little guy so cute! Does this sound overstocked?
> Let me know if you do. I got the comets only to cycle
> the tank I started out with 40 of them and didn't have
> the heart to get rid of the ones that survived. I know
> I am a schmuck! Thanks Aaron, Janet
Group: AquaticLife Message: 277 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/8/2004
Subject: Re: Algae, Goldfish and Plants
Here is a link to those plants really cheap -

Duckweed Portion (1/8 cup) Lemna Minor $0.99
Duckweed is a tiny (1/16 to 1/8 inch) green plants with shoe-shaped
leaves. Each plant has two to several leaves joined at the base. A
single root hangs beneath. Excellent a as Gold Fish food.
http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/dupo1culemi.html
(I get mine for free from the LFS that can't get rid of the stuff
fast enough, it is after all a weed, but my large apple snail loves
it)

Anacharis (Elodea densa) $0.45
http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/anelden.html

Hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum) $0.51
http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/horcer.html


--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
> Hi Janet,
>
> The Albino Dwarf Bushy Nose cost $10.00 @ Wet Pets, the owner said
it
> was so expensive cuz there is only 1 person breeding them right
now.
> Hard to believe, but well worth the price since it seems to clean
> 24/7 and is soooo cute. :*)
> The Clown Plecos are much more common, only $5.00 at Village Pet
Shop.
> There are a variety of Dwarf plecos available as well.
>
> In addition to or rather than more fish, there is a great product
> available - http://www.algone.com - I have had no Algae since I
used
> it. It took about a week to see a differance.
>
> It is a good idea to set the lights on a Timer for maybe 6 hours to
> start and slowly increase by an about an hour a week or so.
>
> Duck weed is a great snack for Goldfish, it is a small floating
plant
> that multiplies rapidly. Hornwort is an easy to grow plant that is
> excellent for getting rid of Algae by quickly absorbing all
available
> phosphates and other nutrients that are allowing Algae to grow.
> Anacharis is another common easy to grow and cheap plant. Those are
> good starters.
>
> Anybody else kept goldfish?
> What plants are safe and good for them (to eat)?
>
>
>
> --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Janet Abreu
> <janetlarn@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Aaron,
> > I'd love to have a pond someday. And yes, I thought by
> > the time the koi and my comets got too big for my tank
> > I'd put them in a pond. Where did you get your pleco?
> > Are they rare? Expensive? They sound cool. The ones I
> > bought are maybe an inch not inc their tails, smallest
> > regular plecos I've seen. I know they will get bigger
> > but the LFS will take them back so I can get smaller
> > ones. I do mean algae. It is all along the walls of
> > the tank. I tried the algae scrubber but it didn't
> > really work too well. BTW the snails I have are
> > ramshorn snails (might not be spelled right) The LFS
> > recommended against the algae destroyer tablets saying
> > they were to dangerous. The problem isn't awful but I
> > don't want it to get any worse. I never even saw algae
> > while I had my big pleco. I didn't want to do plants
> > right away cause I was busy trying to keep just the
> > fish alive but now that things are stable(0 ammonia 0
> > nitrite Ph 7.5 GH 150ppm) I'd like to try some. Any
> > easy ones you'd reccommend? My tank is in my living
> > room and the blinds are always closed and my tank
> > lights are on between 8-12 hours a day. I have 7 Black
> > moors 15-20 small 1 inch comets and 2 orandas 1 red
> > and white and the other is yellow and black I love
> > that little guy so cute! Does this sound overstocked?
> > Let me know if you do. I got the comets only to cycle
> > the tank I started out with 40 of them and didn't have
> > the heart to get rid of the ones that survived. I know
> > I am a schmuck! Thanks Aaron, Janet
Group: AquaticLife Message: 278 From: Pamela Glass Johnson Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: New to the group
Hello fellow fishlovers,

My name is Joe and I am living in Augusta, Georgia. I have been in
the freshwater tropical fish hobby for the past 28 years. Besides my
family, the only true passion and joy that I truly have is keeping
tropical fish. Currently I have about 25 tanks ranging from 5 to 55
gallons. I have setup various types of tanks ranging from community
tanks to natural tanks with a specific theme. For example, an African
river tank or a Amazon River Basin tank.

I was a member of a fish club in Kalamazoo, Michigan before I moved
down to Augusta and enjoyed being with and spending time with other
hobbyists like myself. I have been out of the hobby for a while and
have been thinking about starting up again, since I have just
returned from being stationed overseas.

While I enjoy keeping all different kinds of fish the group that I
keep the most time with are the cichlids, specifically the dwarf
cichlids. I am looking forward to being a part of this group.

Joe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 279 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Question on baby fish
As long as we talking about pleco's and how big their mouths get..... I was wondering if anyone could tell me if a small pleco in my 15 gallon ALL Guppy tank is a good idea.    I really need one in there, but because I have babies hiding in the javamoss I have been hesitant to put one in.   
 
I am well aware of how fast pleco's grow as we put 2 small pleco's in our pond last spring and took them out in the fall and they were over 10 and 12 inches long... ( Needless to say NO tank in this house needed a pleco THAT big so we sold them back to the pet store... LOL)
 
I also sell my baby guppies back to the fish store when they mature, so I dont want to put a pleco in there if it is going to eat all of the babies before I can get them out and put them into my baby tank!
 
any suggestions?? 
 
thanks,
 Kelly
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/08/2004 08:20:08 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question on baby fish
 
be forewarned, those little mouths are going to get huge very quickly.
a little pleco won't stay little for very long at all...
On Jan 7, 2004, at 2:24 PM, Janet Abreu wrote:

> yesterday I bought 3 tiny
> plecos to help. I don't want any one else with a big
> mouth in the tank!


http://www.puppetterrors.com
don't be afraid to scream...



Yahoo! Groups Links

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 280 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Algae Eaters in 15 gallon guppie fry tank (was - Question on ba
Hi Kelly,

I keep "Amano" Shrimp in my Fry tanks to clean the Algae out of the
Java Moss and Hornwort. There are other small (herbivore?) shrimp
available (without big claws) that eat Algae, some are very colorful.
I recently added 13 "ghost" shrimp (only $0.08 each) to my 55 gallon
out of curiosity, so far they have been really busy keeping the
bottom clean and may also be eating Algae. I would guess any small
shrimp without claws big enough to grab fry should be safe with fry
and are a great addition to a planted tank. Again, there are very
colorful kinds available, but they can be pricey like the Red Cherry
Shrimp.
I also have Otocinculus in the fry tank, they stay small, only 1.5"
max size, and you could keep 2 or 3 in the 15 gallon. They are very
busy workers.
If you really want Plecos, look for the smaller Dwarf or Clown types,
max size about 3", they do still have the Nocturnal tendencies. I
have only seen Plecos eat fish that were already dead. Its the
Chinese Algae Eaters that have a bad reputation for eating the Slime
Coat off the other fish.
Another option is Nerite or other small snails. They can eat Algae in
the small hard to reach places like in Java Moss. If you keep
loaches, an added benifit of raising snails is you can feed the
extras to the Loaches for a very welcome tasty treat. I have heard
that goldfish will eat the snails as well.

Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
<dreamz64@r...> wrote:
> As long as we talking about pleco's and how big their mouths
get..... I was
> wondering if anyone could tell me if a small pleco in my 15 gallon
ALL Guppy
> tank is a good idea. I really need one in there, but because I
have
> babies hiding in the javamoss I have been hesitant to put one
in.
>
> I am well aware of how fast pleco's grow as we put 2 small pleco's
in our
> pond last spring and took them out in the fall and they were over
10 and 12
> inches long... ( Needless to say NO tank in this house needed a
pleco THAT
> big so we sold them back to the pet store... LOL)
>
> I also sell my baby guppies back to the fish store when they
mature, so I
> dont want to put a pleco in there if it is going to eat all of the
babies
> before I can get them out and put them into my baby tank!
>
> any suggestions??
>
> thanks,
> Kelly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 281 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: New to the group
Hi Joe,

Welcome to the group and welcome back to the States.

Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Pamela Glass
Johnson" <jjmedic3453@y...> wrote:
> Hello fellow fishlovers,
>
> My name is Joe and I am living in Augusta, Georgia. I have been in
> the freshwater tropical fish hobby for the past 28 years. Besides
my
> family, the only true passion and joy that I truly have is keeping
> tropical fish. Currently I have about 25 tanks ranging from 5 to 55
> gallons. I have setup various types of tanks ranging from community
> tanks to natural tanks with a specific theme. For example, an
African
> river tank or a Amazon River Basin tank.
>
> I was a member of a fish club in Kalamazoo, Michigan before I moved
> down to Augusta and enjoyed being with and spending time with other
> hobbyists like myself. I have been out of the hobby for a while and
> have been thinking about starting up again, since I have just
> returned from being stationed overseas.
>
> While I enjoy keeping all different kinds of fish the group that I
> keep the most time with are the cichlids, specifically the dwarf
> cichlids. I am looking forward to being a part of this group.
>
> Joe
Group: AquaticLife Message: 282 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Algae Eaters in 15 gallon guppie fry tank (was - Question on ba
 
 Hi Aaron,
 
 Thanks so much for the info. I have taken close notes and when I make my weekly trip to the fish store this weekend I will be sure to look these things up.
 
Thanks so much!
Kelly
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/09/2004 11:23:19 AM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Algae Eaters in 15 gallon guppie fry tank (was - Question on baby fish)
 
Hi Kelly,

I keep "Amano" Shrimp in my Fry tanks to clean the Algae out of the
Java Moss and Hornwort. There are other small (herbivore?) shrimp
available (without big claws) that eat Algae, some are very colorful.
I recently added 13 "ghost" shrimp (only $0.08 each) to my 55 gallon
out of curiosity, so far they have been really busy keeping the
bottom clean and may also be eating Algae. I would guess any small
shrimp without claws big enough to grab fry should be safe with fry
and are a great addition to a planted tank. Again, there are very
colorful kinds available, but they can be pricey like the Red Cherry
Shrimp.
I also have Otocinculus in the fry tank, they stay small, only 1.5"
max size, and you could keep 2 or 3 in the 15 gallon. They are very
busy workers.
If you really want Plecos, look for the smaller Dwarf or Clown types,
max size about 3", they do still have the Nocturnal tendencies. I
have only seen Plecos eat fish that were already dead. Its the
Chinese Algae Eaters that have a bad reputation for eating the Slime
Coat off the other fish.
Another option is Nerite or other small snails. They can eat Algae in
the small hard to reach places like in Java Moss. If you keep
loaches, an added benifit of raising snails is you can feed the
extras to the Loaches for a very welcome tasty treat. I have heard
that goldfish will eat the snails as well.

Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
<dreamz64@r...> wrote:
> As long as we talking about pleco's and how big their mouths
get..... I was
> wondering if anyone could tell me if a small pleco in my 15 gallon
ALL Guppy
> tank is a good idea.    I really need one in there, but because I
have
> babies hiding in the javamoss I have been hesitant to put one
in.   
>
> I am well aware of how fast pleco's grow as we put 2 small pleco's
in our
> pond last spring and took them out in the fall and they were over
10 and 12
> inches long... ( Needless to say NO tank in this house needed a
pleco THAT
> big so we sold them back to the pet store... LOL)
>
> I also sell my baby guppies back to the fish store when they
mature, so I
> dont want to put a pleco in there if it is going to eat all of the
babies
> before I can get them out and put them into my baby tank!
>
> any suggestions?? 
>
> thanks,
>  Kelly



Yahoo! Groups Links

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 283 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Bettas and Platties
Hey there! I'm new to the group and fairly a new aqaurium (spelling)
hobbiest. I have a question:

I have a male betta that I just put in my 10 gallon tank. My male
platty seems to want to nip his fins. My female plattie really
doesn't bother him. Is there anything I can do to get the male platty
to quite nipping my male betta's fins? I'd really like to see
platties get along so I can have my 1 gallon tank as a hospital or
birthing tank.

Thanx in advance for help.

~r0cks0ldier~
Group: AquaticLife Message: 284 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Bettas and Platties
Hi,

Welcome to the group.

Thats to bad the 2 males don't get along. Does the Betta show any
signs of aggression? "> platty seems to want to nip his fins." Does
the Platy actually bite the Betta or just chase him? Are there bite
size pieces missing from the Bettas fins? What is the Bettas reaction
to getting 'nipped'?
Sounds like the Male Platy has had time to claim territory and may
just be trying to defend it. Try changing the Environment to change
the Behavior, i/.e. rearrange the decorations so the Platty must find
new Territory. This may keep him busy enough that he will leave the
Betta alone while exploring the new arrangement.
If they are not actually biting each other and causing injuries, it
might not be a real problem. You could try adding another female to
divert his attention away from the Betta. It is my understanding that
its a common practice to have at least 2 Females for each male anyway.

Just curious, what kind of Betta and Platties are they? Any fry yet?

Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "r0cks0ldier"
<genXrev@h...> wrote:
> Hey there! I'm new to the group and fairly a new aqaurium (spelling)
> hobbiest. I have a question:
>
> I have a male betta that I just put in my 10 gallon tank. My male
> platty seems to want to nip his fins. My female plattie really
> doesn't bother him. Is there anything I can do to get the male
> platty to quite nipping my male betta's fins? I'd really like to see
> platties get along so I can have my 1 gallon tank as a hospital or
> birthing tank.
>
> Thanx in advance for help.
>
> ~r0cks0ldier~
Group: AquaticLife Message: 285 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/9/2004
Subject: Re: Bettas and Platties
Hi! Thanx for responding!

No fry yet. I have a list of things I need to get for my fish tank. I
used to have live plants but find it to difficult to maintain them.
They disintegrate over time. I'm gonna go to artificial because they
are easy cleaning and some look just as nice as live plants. I need
to get a floater before I actually get fry. I guess I got overexcited
about my tank and just bought whatever fish looked pretty. lol I need
to really think what kind of fish I want in case they start breeding.
Do I want a tank full of platties or guppies or whatever? You get the
picture. lol I'll see how Mr. P. (male platty) reacts after I get new
vegitation. I kinda watched how the fish acted together when I firt
put in Pretty Boy. (male betta) Thats when I noticed that Mr. P was
going after not only P.B. but also Scuttle (male fan tail guppy) Mr.
P hasn't caused any real injuries yet but I am trying to save my
fishs' fins early before they are nipped to nothing. Especially my
betta with his long flowing beautiful fins.

The betta kinda runs away as well as Scuttle when they get nipped.
Mr. P. don't mess with the female fish that are in the tank. And he
just started messing with Scuttle when I put the betta in.

As far as species, I'm unsure of the male but the female is a micky
mouse platty I think. She is getting the marking of a micky mouse
platty on her tail. Its hard to tell with the male platty. And I
don't have any guesses with the male betta fish. He is red and kinda
of shines a neon blue/green or purple. I'm not sure. I've noticed
that betta hung out on one side of the tank for a while when first
put in but now has gone over to the other side. In the small tank,
male platty was chasing around the female but is not now. Someone in
another group said that he might be in mating mode. I put some
treatment in for ick so I'm thinking that if he was, he isn't now
because the water "tastes" different than before.

~r0cks0ldier~
Group: AquaticLife Message: 286 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: tips on plants
Hi all, i was wondering if any one had a tip or two on what plants
would be good for someone who is just starting out. I am looking for
plants that need low to moderate light. I would be greatful for any
help.


Thanks

Eric
Group: AquaticLife Message: 287 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Tips on Substrate
Hi all, i was wondering if any one had a tip or two on substrate. i
have been keeping fish for many years, ever since my father first
introduced me to it, but now that i am older i want to have a live
plants in my tank. i have been reading as much information as i can,
but i wanted to get some advice from people who have actually used
either Flourite or Eco-Complete. which one is better or easier to use
for a first timer. i would be greatful for any help .



Thanks Eric
Group: AquaticLife Message: 288 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Re: Tips on Substrate
Hi Eric,

Welcome to the group.

re: "to get some advice from people who have actually used
> either Flourite or Eco-Complete. which one is better or easier to
use for a first timer."

I have used both, as well as several others. Easiest to use is Eco-
Complete because it is already wet. Florite must be washed and
cycled, where as Eco-Complete is similar to Live Sand in that it has
all the benifical bacteria already developed.
Another easy to use Planted Substrate is Red Sea brand Flora Base. It
is brown in color and also does not need to be washed. It is designed
to be OK when used with an UGF. The only drawback is that it is
recommended to be replaced annualy.

I just added a Rooted Plant Soil Substrate recipe into the File
section on Thursday, "Sean Murphy's recipe for a planted tanks soil
substrate. He's an aquatic biologist,and grows the most outrageous
crypts and Madagascar lace! You can see his tanks, using this
substrate, posted on the PLANTED TANK FORUM at:
http://www.planted tank.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3777 "
It may not be a begginer project, but it is worth looking into.

Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, red_5sw@y...
wrote:
>
> Hi all, i was wondering if any one had a tip or two on substrate. i
> have been keeping fish for many years, ever since my father first
> introduced me to it, but now that i am older i want to have a live
> plants in my tank. i have been reading as much information as i can,
> but i wanted to get some advice from people who have actually used
> either Flourite or Eco-Complete. which one is better or easier to
use
> for a first timer. i would be greatful for any help .
>
>
>
> Thanks Eric
Group: AquaticLife Message: 289 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Re: tips on plants
Hi Eric,

I started with Hornwort, Anacharis, Java Fern and Java Moss. None of
these need to be rooted into substrate and all do well in low light.

What size LxWxD and gallons is your tank? I have heard that Depths
greater than 18" can limit choices for plants as light may not be
able to reach all the way down to the bottom.
What kind of lighting and how many watts do you have or plan on using?
When you say "low to moderate light" I think maybe 2 or 3
Watts/Gallon (wpg). Crypts should be OK in this lighting as well.
Are you planning on using CO2? You might not need it if your lighting
is very low. More than 4 wpg and the plant growth may be limited
without it, possibly allowing for Algae to grow.

Here is a link to some of those plants really cheap -

Anacharis (Elodea densa) $0.45
http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/anelden.html

Hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum) $0.51
http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/horcer.html

Crypts - http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/cryptocorynes.html

Aquatic Plant Depot has been around since 1932, not a personal
recommendation as I have not yet purchased from them, just an example
of what is available online.

What kind of fish are you (planning on) keeping?

Hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, red_5sw@y...
wrote:
>
> Hi all, i was wondering if any one had a tip or two on what plants
> would be good for someone who is just starting out. I am looking
for
> plants that need low to moderate light. I would be greatful for any
> help.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Eric
Group: AquaticLife Message: 290 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Fry, fry, and more fry (a beginner with LOTS of questions)
I'm confused on breeding and raising fry. Do you recommend putting
birthing mother in a seperate tank till she is finished giving birth
or a breeder net? If not net, then what are they really for? I know
lots of vegitation for the babies to hide out in. Any more
suggestions?

~r0cks0ldier~
Group: AquaticLife Message: 291 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/10/2004
Subject: Re: tips on plants
Thank you for the info

I will be setting up my tank, it is a 20L that is 30 1/4 x 12 1/2 x
12 3/4. the plants that i would like to have would be easy ones. i
would like to go with a varity of plants from low to high,
since i am just starting out. i was thinking about using the Hagen
CO2 Natural Plant System. and the fish that i wanted to go with are
guppies, Platies, tetras. right now i have not totally desided on
what i want.

Thanks again

Eric
Group: AquaticLife Message: 292 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Re: tips on plants
hi,

Check this out..

http://www.geocities.com/~donius/access/index0.htm

You have all the useful info about aquatic plants..

Hope that helps u..SuNnY !

--- red_5sw@... wrote:
>
> Hi all, i was wondering if any one had a tip or two
> on what plants
> would be good for someone who is just starting out.
> I am looking for
> plants that need low to moderate light. I would be
> greatful for any
> help.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Eric
>
>
>


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 293 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Grrrr, something else going on with another fish..I think he's sick
Hey all!

I've noticed today that my male fan tail guppy looks like he's sick.
He has a hole in his back fin. Also on the right side up in front,
his fin is not being used like it should. The other side in front is
ok, he's using it normally but won't use the right side's fin. Any
ideas? I'm thinking fin rot but not sure.

~r0cks0ldier~
Group: AquaticLife Message: 294 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Re: Grrrr, something else going on with another fish,an added note
I have also noted that my fantail kind of has stopped today moving
around a whole lot. I caught him once just kinds of "resting" on the
bottom of the tank which is not normal for him. He's now at the back
of the tank not moving again and caught him in an upright possition
kind of like what an algea eater does when they stick themselves on
the side of the thank. When my fantail does this, again he doesn't
move around alot. He seems to be taking in some food as well.

~r0cks0ldier~

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "r0cks0ldier"
<genXrev@h...> wrote:
> Hey all!
>
> I've noticed today that my male fan tail guppy looks like he's
sick.
> He has a hole in his back fin. Also on the right side up in front,
> his fin is not being used like it should. The other side in front
is
> ok, he's using it normally but won't use the right side's fin. Any
> ideas? I'm thinking fin rot but not sure.
>
> ~r0cks0ldier~
Group: AquaticLife Message: 295 From: sledge4cp Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Novice dealing with ichthyophthirius (ick) for the first time
Hi,

I'm new to the group. I was referred by a former member. I am a
novice at aquarium's and just now realize how lucky I have been over
the past 6 years with my angel fish until now. No disease's, that is.

Last week I introduced 2 new bottom feeders to my tank. Well, long
story short is that they carried ick. I have treated the tank and
followed the advice of my local reputable aquarium store (as well as,
a lot of web hunting). Unfortunately, I am losing fish to the point
where I don't think the remaining 3 angel's will survive. The catfish
and one bottom feeder still appear to be okay.

My questions is, IF I lose the remaining fish, is there any
special 'sterilization' process that I need to do the tank/gravel/etc
before I start over?

Any advice in the matter would greatly be appreciated. Also, please
let me know if I need to answer any questions regarding this issue.

Thanks,

Jim
Group: AquaticLife Message: 296 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: I'm hooked!
Hello all,
I'm new here. It's been exactly one year since I got my 20 gallon
tank. Still have two of the orignal three zebra danios. I've had so
much fun experimenting with different fish, live plants, and trying
to maintain a comfortable little world for my lovely creatures. I
enjoy it all--the chemistry, even the cleaning! I have my first fry;
just discovered them and have done nothing. A new female betta seems
interested in them, but so far they've been too quick for her, taking
cover under a rock. As they get bigger I suspect they'll be more
vulnerable--what's the cheapest and easiest way to protect them?

I look forward to getting to know you.

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 297 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Re: I'm hooked!
hi Sierra,

One way is buying a floater or a breeding net which
you can stick to the wall of your tank.

or you can go in for a small fry tank...

Hope this helps

--- snowdrift52003 <snowdrift52003@...> wrote:
> Hello all,
> I'm new here. It's been exactly one year since I got
> my 20 gallon
> tank. Still have two of the orignal three zebra
> danios. I've had so
> much fun experimenting with different fish, live
> plants, and trying
> to maintain a comfortable little world for my lovely
> creatures. I
> enjoy it all--the chemistry, even the cleaning! I
> have my first fry;
> just discovered them and have done nothing. A new
> female betta seems
> interested in them, but so far they've been too
> quick for her, taking
> cover under a rock. As they get bigger I suspect
> they'll be more
> vulnerable--what's the cheapest and easiest way to
> protect them?
>
> I look forward to getting to know you.
>
> Sierra
>
>
>


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 298 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/11/2004
Subject: Re: Novice dealing with ichthyophthirius (ick) for the first time
When you put the medication

1. had you removed the charcoal from your filter media
?

2. increased the water temparature ??

....sunny !

--- sledge4cp <sledge4cp@...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to the group. I was referred by a former
> member. I am a
> novice at aquarium's and just now realize how lucky
> I have been over
> the past 6 years with my angel fish until now. No
> disease's, that is.
>
> Last week I introduced 2 new bottom feeders to my
> tank. Well, long
> story short is that they carried ick. I have treated
> the tank and
> followed the advice of my local reputable aquarium
> store (as well as,
> a lot of web hunting). Unfortunately, I am losing
> fish to the point
> where I don't think the remaining 3 angel's will
> survive. The catfish
> and one bottom feeder still appear to be okay.
>
> My questions is, IF I lose the remaining fish, is
> there any
> special 'sterilization' process that I need to do
> the tank/gravel/etc
> before I start over?
>
> Any advice in the matter would greatly be
> appreciated. Also, please
> let me know if I need to answer any questions
> regarding this issue.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 299 From: Kelly Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Bleeding Heart Tetra??
Has anyone heard of a bleeding heart tetra? Someone offered to give
us theirs as they are changing over to a salt water tank, and I have
never heard of it or have I been able to find any information on this
kind of fish. Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you, Kelly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 300 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Bleeding Heart Tetra??
hi kelly...

Yup i have 5 bleeding heart tetras.

They are a peaceful community fish, and their other
tank mates are rasboras, danios, neons, cardinals,
angles and gouramis.

They have a red patch the size of a dot on either side
near where their heart is.

If u want i can send a snap of this..maybe tomorrow..

So dont worry go ahead and take them, but make sure
they are in a group of minimum 3 so that they will be
active..

Hope this helps.......SuNnY !!

--- Kelly <dreamz64@...> wrote:
> Has anyone heard of a bleeding heart tetra? Someone
> offered to give
> us theirs as they are changing over to a salt water
> tank, and I have
> never heard of it or have I been able to find any
> information on this
> kind of fish. Any info would be greatly
> appreciated!
> Thank you, Kelly
>
>


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 301 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Bleeding Heart Tetra??
 
 Thank you so much for the information... I guess we will be getting our new fish tonight! : )
Kelly
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/12/2004 08:59:06 AM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bleeding Heart Tetra??
 
hi kelly...

Yup i have 5 bleeding heart tetras.

They are a peaceful community fish, and their other
tank mates are rasboras, danios, neons, cardinals,
angles and gouramis.

They have a red patch the size of a dot on either side
near where their heart is.

If u want i can send a snap of this..maybe tomorrow..

So dont worry go ahead and take them, but make sure
they are in a group of minimum 3 so that they will be
active..

Hope this helps.......SuNnY !!

--- Kelly <dreamz64@...> wrote:
> Has anyone heard of a bleeding heart tetra?  Someone
> offered to give
> us theirs as they are changing over to a salt water
> tank, and I have
> never heard of it or have I been able to find any
> information on this
> kind of fish.   Any info would be greatly
> appreciated!
> Thank you,  Kelly
>
>


__________________________________
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Yahoo! Groups Links

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 302 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Guppy Body curved down??
 
Hi there,
 
  I have an all guppy tank, and noticed today that 3 of  their bodies are curved downwards..... like  a drooping tail but it starts in the middle of the back area.  The one that it is the most noticeable on is the mom that had babies 2 weeks ago.. I thought she looks odd right after delivering her fry, but it has not changed..  The other 2 are a male and a female...  
 
Is this arched body a sign of trouble or do some guppies just have a different shape?
 
Thanks so much,
   Kelly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 303 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Lazy
Is it possible for fry to survive if I do nothing to assist them?

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 304 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Lazy
it's definitely possible. i had one fry tank that i unplugged and took
the heater out of (thinking that i had removed all of the fry) and i
went back to it about 3 weeks later to fully drain it and found that a
single fry had been living in the unheated water, in the dark, with no
food for the entire time. i'm sure if you just let fry be in a filtered
tank where you were feeding adults, some would live.
amalthea
On Jan 12, 2004, at 5:10 PM, snowdrift52003 wrote:

> Is it possible for fry to survive if I do nothing to assist them?
>
> Sierra
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <image.tiff>
> <image.tiff>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


http://www.puppetterrors.com
don't be afraid to scream...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 305 From: Sarah Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Lazy
 We agree, Our female guppies won't stop giving birth in the main tank and we couldn't catch them all to seperate them. So we left them they are all now about 1-1/2cm and doing great!!!
 
Regards
 
Sarah & Tony
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 12/01/2004 22:14:14
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Lazy
 
it's definitely possible. i had one fry tank that i unplugged and took
the heater out of (thinking that i had removed all of the fry) and i
went back to it about 3 weeks later to fully drain it and found that a
single fry had been living in the unheated water, in the dark, with no
food for the entire time. i'm sure if you just let fry be in a filtered
tank where you were feeding adults, some would live.
amalthea
On Jan 12, 2004, at 5:10 PM, snowdrift52003 wrote:
 
> Is it possible for fry to survive if I do nothing to assist them?
>
> Sierra
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <image.tiff>
> <image.tiff>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
 
 
don't be afraid to scream...
 
 
 
 
Yahoo! Groups Links
 
To visit your group on the web, go to:
 
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 
 
.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 306 From: sledge4cp Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Novice dealing with ichthyophthirius (ick) for the first time
--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
<sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
> When you put the medication
>
> 1. had you removed the charcoal from your filter media

YES

> 2. increased the water temparature ?? YES
>
I still have the charcoal removed and the temp up. Yet, I can still
see that I have ICK......I know it won't be an immediate change. I
have a 55 gallon tank and had 7 angel, 1 red tail, and 2 small
catfish, plus the two new bottom feeders that brought the ick.

I am now down to 3 angel, 1 catfish, and 1 of the new one's. In other
words I haven't lost anymore since Sunday morning.

I am out of the bottle of medication and am getting ready to cycle
approx. 1/2 the tank of water.

I will attempt to continue to save the fish/tank. But, do I repeat
the process of buying/using medication until the fish and tank clear
up???

Again, if I do lose all fish, is there any special cleaning I have to
do prior to starting over? Or will the ICK 'die off' when the tank
and gravel are dry?

Thanks,

Jim
Group: AquaticLife Message: 307 From: Janet Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Re: Novice dealing with ichthyophthirius (ick) for the first time
Jim I am so sorry to hear about your fish. If you do lose them all it
is my understanding that the ick will die. I think they need a host
to survive and if you leave the tank empty for a few days they will
starve. I am not certain about this but I think I read it somewhere
when I too had it in my tank. I was very fortunate and it cleared up
very quickly with no casualties. I hope someone else responds to your
question to confirm my thoughts I don't want to steer you in the
wrong direction. Sorry about your little guys. It is heartbreaking to
lose them. Janet




-- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "sledge4cp"
<sledge4cp@h...> wrote:
> --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
> <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
> > When you put the medication
> >
> > 1. had you removed the charcoal from your filter media
>
> YES
>
> > 2. increased the water temparature ?? YES
> >
> I still have the charcoal removed and the temp up. Yet, I can still
> see that I have ICK......I know it won't be an immediate change. I
> have a 55 gallon tank and had 7 angel, 1 red tail, and 2 small
> catfish, plus the two new bottom feeders that brought the ick.
>
> I am now down to 3 angel, 1 catfish, and 1 of the new one's. In
other
> words I haven't lost anymore since Sunday morning.
>
> I am out of the bottle of medication and am getting ready to cycle
> approx. 1/2 the tank of water.
>
> I will attempt to continue to save the fish/tank. But, do I repeat
> the process of buying/using medication until the fish and tank
clear
> up???
>
> Again, if I do lose all fish, is there any special cleaning I have
to
> do prior to starting over? Or will the ICK 'die off' when the tank
> and gravel are dry?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
Group: AquaticLife Message: 308 From: Janet Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: ATTN JIM
Hi Jim, I was reading up a little on ich and I saw a picture of
velvet which looks like ich to me just a little finer and thought
maybe your fish have that and not ich. The treatment for ich can also
work for velvet but there is a specific product called jungle velvet
guard that is for the velvet. Also the website did say that one of
the stages of ich will die without a host fish but I am still not
sure if that goes for all the stages. I hope someone with more
experience chimes in here because I want your fish to live! Good luck
with your fishies! Janet
Group: AquaticLife Message: 309 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/12/2004
Subject: Lazy Fry Mom Report
Hello,
My two little fellows are alive and well and I saw one nibbling a
food flake tonight. They're about half an inch long. One appears
orange and the other clear/whitish. I have one black and white guppy
in my tank and several orange platys...I wonder what these fry are?
Hope they make it so I can find out.

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 310 From: Sarah Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: Re: ATTN JIM
JIm,
 
was wondering what temp you had your tank on ?
 
When i had a bad case of ick in a previous tank i put it up to 30 C For one hour (slowly) then brought it right down slowly again. It cured the ick.
 
Recently i also gave a molly that i have now a salt bath. We had fugus, ick and pop eye. She is now fine. All i did was pick her out the tank got a jug of tank water duilted a small amount of salt into it and rubbed it gently over her, I read this on a website and wasn't sure but i thought i would try it coz i couldn't bear to see her like that anymore. She is now great completely clear of everything. Just something to think about. 
 
Regards
 
Sarah & Tony
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 13/01/2004 03:00:55
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ATTN JIM
 
Hi Jim, I was reading up a little on ich and I saw a picture of
velvet which looks like ich to me just a little finer and thought
maybe your fish have that and not ich. The treatment for ich can also
work for velvet but there is a specific product called jungle velvet
guard that is for the velvet. Also the website did say that one of
the stages of ich will die without a host fish but I am still not
sure if that goes for all the stages. I hope someone with more
experience chimes in here because I want your fish to live! Good luck
with your fishies! Janet



Yahoo! Groups Links

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 311 From: schuyler sloane Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: hi everyone
i am so glad that i joined this group, this is cool
if anybody is interested they can check out my tropical fish web site
at:
http://mr_sky_531.tripod.com/aquariumsociety
thanks agiain guys.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 312 From: eradiabashir Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: General advice to a newbie please
Hi!
I would appreciate any advice or suggestions you aquarists are
willing to send to a novice. Let me explain my situation: I have a
ten gallon tank I am thinking of putting some freshwater fish into.
My background in freshwater is limited. As a child I had a community
tank that was decimated when the oscars realized one day they had
grown bigger than everyone else and went on a feeding frenzy. Still
in my childhood, I tried all guppies in a tank only to have a similar
experience; one rogue female killed and/or ate all the others. Down
but not out, I went into saltwater aquariums in my teens. That was a
success. I had only three fish but a beautiful reef full of
invertabrets. That was twenty years ago, back in the days when the
saltwater hobby needed a chemistry degree. The tank was sold when I
married and moved. The cost was so prohibative I never got another
although I loved it.
Now, twenty years later, I have a pet goldfish. He was a ten cent
feeder fish that started in a bowl, then went to a ten gallon tank,
then a rubbermaid tub. Now he's a good eight inches long and lives in
an indoor pond. Fond as I am of my goldfish, I don't get the pleasure
of viewing him in the pond that I did when he was in the tank. I keep
looking at that empty tank and thinking it would be nice to have an
aquarium again.
So here are my worries:
Should I start a small fresh water aquarium or wait for years, maybe
never, until I can afford a saltwater reef tank again.
If I set up the ten gal aquarium, what should I put in it? I prefer
SMALL fish (between oscars and my goldfish-smaller is better). Are
there any freshwater invertabrates or other animals I should
consider. Ideally, I'd love a lower maintainence community. (I'm not
willing to put as much into fresh as I would marine and I'd rather
not do live food. Yuck!)
Any and all opinions would be valued.
Thanks!
Eradia Bashir
EradiaBashir@...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 313 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
Hi bashir,

Welcome to the group.. and back to the hobby..

Well i dont have any experience with salt water
fishes, but yup they look beautiful at the LFS's.

But i have 3 ( 55Gal 20 Gal and 5 Gal started in the
ascending order ) Tropical fishes tank, though even i
started recently ( after a gap of 10 years ).

Even having a planted community tank is very pleasing
and enjoyable.. It brings out the creative talent in
you..

Since you want to start out with a 10gal tank is a
good idea since you are looking out for small fishes.
Since u want to do least maintenance, meaning atleast
20% water changes every alternate week i assume, then
you can keep only about 5 - 8 max fishes in the 10 gal
tank.

So its better u go in for say neons and rasboras.

Or if you want it to be more colourful, then go in for
guppies ( males only ) mollies platys etc etc.

You can wait for some more suggestions other people
have to give you..

Hope this helps and wish u all the best....SuNnY !


--- eradiabashir <EradiaBashir@...> wrote:
> Hi!
> I would appreciate any advice or suggestions you
> aquarists are
> willing to send to a novice. Let me explain my
> situation: I have a
> ten gallon tank I am thinking of putting some
> freshwater fish into.
> My background in freshwater is limited. As a child I
> had a community
> tank that was decimated when the oscars realized one
> day they had
> grown bigger than everyone else and went on a
> feeding frenzy. Still
> in my childhood, I tried all guppies in a tank only
> to have a similar
> experience; one rogue female killed and/or ate all
> the others. Down
> but not out, I went into saltwater aquariums in my
> teens. That was a
> success. I had only three fish but a beautiful reef
> full of
> invertabrets. That was twenty years ago, back in the
> days when the
> saltwater hobby needed a chemistry degree. The tank
> was sold when I
> married and moved. The cost was so prohibative I
> never got another
> although I loved it.
> Now, twenty years later, I have a pet goldfish. He
> was a ten cent
> feeder fish that started in a bowl, then went to a
> ten gallon tank,
> then a rubbermaid tub. Now he's a good eight inches
> long and lives in
> an indoor pond. Fond as I am of my goldfish, I don't
> get the pleasure
> of viewing him in the pond that I did when he was in
> the tank. I keep
> looking at that empty tank and thinking it would be
> nice to have an
> aquarium again.
> So here are my worries:
> Should I start a small fresh water aquarium or wait
> for years, maybe
> never, until I can afford a saltwater reef tank
> again.
> If I set up the ten gal aquarium, what should I put
> in it? I prefer
> SMALL fish (between oscars and my goldfish-smaller
> is better). Are
> there any freshwater invertabrates or other animals
> I should
> consider. Ideally, I'd love a lower maintainence
> community. (I'm not
> willing to put as much into fresh as I would marine
> and I'd rather
> not do live food. Yuck!)
> Any and all opinions would be valued.
> Thanks!
> Eradia Bashir
> EradiaBashir@...
>
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 314 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
you could also keep one or two of the fish i have (bubblegum parrots)
in a ten gallon without too much maintenance being involved. i actually
have a ten gallon semi planted tank here with over ten of them and the
levels stay healthy with very little maintenance on my part. they seem
to be pretty "clean" fish in my experience as even my once a month
gravel vacuuming barely brings up any muck. i'm not sure if your local
pet shop sells them (i would recommend you not buying the ones most
carry which are called "jelly bean" parrots, as those are artificially
dyed and the process is extremely inhumane) but if you can't find any
that aren't dyed you're more than welcome to some of mine (my adults
are really prolific.) if you live locally you could pick them up, or
they could be shipped, whichever...
amalthea
On Jan 13, 2004, at 8:30 PM, sunil kamath wrote:

> Hi bashir,
>
> Welcome to the group.. and back to the hobby..
>
> Well i dont have any experience with salt water
> fishes, but yup they look beautiful at the LFS's.
>
> But i have 3 ( 55Gal 20 Gal and 5 Gal started in the
> ascending order ) Tropical fishes tank, though even i
> started recently ( after  a gap of 10 years ).
>
> Even having a planted community tank is very pleasing
> and enjoyable.. It brings out the creative talent in
> you..
>
> Since you want to start out with a 10gal tank is a
> good idea since you are looking out for small fishes.
> Since u want to do least maintenance, meaning atleast
> 20% water changes every alternate week i assume, then
> you can keep only about 5 - 8 max fishes in the 10 gal
> tank.
>
> So its better u go in for say neons and rasboras.
>
> Or if you want it to be more colourful, then go in for
> guppies ( males only ) mollies platys etc etc.
>
> You can wait for some more suggestions other people
> have to give you..
>
> Hope this helps and wish u all the best....SuNnY !
>
>
> --- eradiabashir <EradiaBashir@...> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > I would appreciate any advice or suggestions you
> > aquarists are
> > willing to send to a novice. Let me explain my
> > situation: I have a
> > ten gallon tank I am thinking of putting some
> > freshwater fish into.
> > My background in freshwater is limited. As a child I
> > had a community
> > tank that was decimated when the oscars realized one
> > day they had
> > grown bigger than everyone else and went on a
> > feeding frenzy. Still
> > in my childhood, I tried all guppies in a tank only
> > to have a similar
> > experience; one rogue female killed and/or ate all
> > the others. Down
> > but not out, I went into saltwater aquariums in my
> > teens. That was a
> > success. I had only three fish but a beautiful reef
> > full of
> > invertabrets. That was twenty years ago, back in the
> > days when the
> > saltwater hobby needed a chemistry degree. The tank
> > was sold when I
> > married and moved. The cost was so prohibative I
> > never got another
> > although I loved it.
> > Now, twenty years later, I have a pet goldfish. He
> > was a ten cent
> > feeder fish that started in a bowl, then went to a
> > ten gallon tank,
> > then a rubbermaid tub. Now he's a good eight inches
> > long and lives in
> > an indoor pond. Fond as I am of my goldfish, I don't
> > get the pleasure
> > of viewing him in the pond that I did when he was in
> > the tank. I keep
> > looking at that empty tank and thinking it would be
> > nice to have an
> > aquarium again.
> > So here are my worries:
> > Should I start a small fresh water aquarium or wait
> > for years, maybe
> > never, until I can afford a saltwater reef tank
> > again.
> > If I set up the ten gal aquarium, what should I put
> > in it? I prefer
> > SMALL fish (between oscars and my goldfish-smaller
> > is better). Are
> > there any freshwater invertabrates or other animals
> > I should
> > consider. Ideally, I'd love a lower maintainence
> > community. (I'm not
> > willing to put as much into fresh as I would marine
> > and I'd rather
> > not do live food. Yuck!)
> > Any and all opinions would be valued.
> > Thanks!
> > Eradia Bashir
> > EradiaBashir@...
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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> <image.tiff>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 315 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/13/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
Hello Eradia,
Why not take a trip to a fish store and browse around a bit? See what
you like. I've been pleased with Petco--have had very good luck with
their fish (and they guarantee them for 15 days). The staff is
knowledgable. I've had a great time with freshwater fish--there are
more varieties than I had imagined. My personal favorites are female
bettas. They move in so many interesting ways, they are beautiful,
they seem more curious and intelligent than the other fish. Platys
are great for color, and there are some gorgeous fantail guppies
available. I just got one that has a tail that looks like a tiger's
coat--brilliant colors.
Gotta have neon tetras! I enjoyed having fruit bowl or candy tetras
(pearly white with casts of orange or blue or pink) too. I say fill
up that 10 gallon tank and enjoy! Life is short.

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 316 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
Hi Everyone..... I just want to share with you a simple reminder that I learned the hard way over the past couple of days.
 
I have a 15 gallon ALL Guppy tank with the most gorgeous guppies and many pregnant moms.   Well.. I DID have.     Sunday night I lost 2 of my fairly new ones... thought not to much about it as my water is 100%.. When I woke up yesterday I had 4 more dead, and before the day was over I had a total of 12 more dead, so that was a total of 14 dead fish in a 24 hour period. My water is still checking out at 100%. 
 
Long story short. I let my daugher put a 2 inch Cherub angel in the tank last week... ( a small 2" birthstone angel that she got for X-mas) .. It was NOT bought as safe for aquariums and apparently let off a toxic substance that was killing my fish. I removed the cherub last night and did a 50 % water change and lost no more overnight and none seem to be sickly today...
 
So PLEASE.. NEVER put anything in your tank that does NOT say aqua safe, or was not bought as a tank decor... I am sick over all of my losses, but it was my own stupidity! 
 
Unfortunately our home test kits dont check for toxins in the water...
 
Now I will wait a couple of weeks, do a few more water changes and then replace my guppy stock..
 
Hugs,
      Kelly
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 317 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23 (i
would recommend you not buying the ones most
> carry which are called "jelly bean" parrots, as those are
artificially
> dyed and the process is extremely inhumane)

Eeew. Any other kinds to avoid?

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 318 From: Bolong78 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: HI
Hi all,
I'm new here.
Will like to invite u all to visit my new forum,
www.my-fish.info

My-fish.info is a Fish Online Community. Here where fish enthusiasts
can share quality information and ideas among hobbyist from beginner
to advanced

Regards
bolong78
Group: AquaticLife Message: 319 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
i would avoid any fish called "painted" or any freshwater fish that
comes in either garrish neon or bright pastel colors. it's generally
easy to tell the difference between the beautiful natural colors of
fish available (think neon tetra and green tiger barb) and the man made
type (painted glass fish, jelly bean parrot, "holiday" fish (i.e. tanks
full of red and green fish around xmas and pastel ones around easter.)
the best way to keep companies from torturing fish is to destroy the
market for them. the exception for this would be those "glow fish"
which have had their colors altered on the molecular level before they
are "born" and are not tortured. they have simply had jellyfish dna
inserted into their own which allows them a certain phosphorescent
quality.
amalthea
On Jan 14, 2004, at 8:35 AM, snowdrift52003 wrote:

> --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23 (i
> would recommend you not buying the ones most
> > carry which are called "jelly bean" parrots, as those are
> artificially
> > dyed and the process is extremely inhumane)
>
> Eeew. Any other kinds to avoid?
>
> Sierra
>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 320 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
You poor thing! I am so sorry to hear that. It is so
hard to lose fish isn't it? I would have never thought
I could cry over a dead fish until I started my tank!
Thanks so much for sharing your story a good reminder
for us all. Janet
--- ~~Kelly~~ <dreamz64@...> wrote:
> Hi Everyone..... I just want to share with you a
> simple reminder that I
> learned the hard way over the past couple of days.
>
> I have a 15 gallon ALL Guppy tank with the most
> gorgeous guppies and many
> pregnant moms. Well.. I DID have. Sunday night
> I lost 2 of my fairly
> new ones... thought not to much about it as my water
> is 100%.. When I woke
> up yesterday I had 4 more dead, and before the day
> was over I had a total of
> 12 more dead, so that was a total of 14 dead fish in
> a 24 hour period. My
> water is still checking out at 100%.
>
> Long story short. I let my daugher put a 2 inch
> Cherub angel in the tank
> last week... ( a small 2" birthstone angel that she
> got for X-mas) .. It was
> NOT bought as safe for aquariums and apparently let
> off a toxic substance
> that was killing my fish. I removed the cherub last
> night and did a 50 %
> water change and lost no more overnight and none
> seem to be sickly today...
>
> So PLEASE.. NEVER put anything in your tank that
> does NOT say aqua safe, or
> was not bought as a tank decor... I am sick over all
> of my losses, but it
> was my own stupidity!
>
> Unfortunately our home test kits dont check for
> toxins in the water...
>
> Now I will wait a couple of weeks, do a few more
> water changes and then
> replace my guppy stock..
>
> Hugs,
> Kelly


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 321 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Cruelty free purchases
Thanks for this information. It will definitely affect my buying
behavior.

Sierra

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
<amalthea23@m...> wrote:
> i would avoid any fish called "painted" or any freshwater fish that
> comes in either garrish neon or bright pastel colors. it's
generally
> easy to tell the difference between the beautiful natural colors of
> fish available (think neon tetra and green tiger barb) and the man
made
> type (painted glass fish, jelly bean parrot, "holiday" fish (i.e.
tanks
> full of red and green fish around xmas and pastel ones around
easter.)
> the best way to keep companies from torturing fish is to destroy
the
> market for them. the exception for this would be those "glow fish"
> which have had their colors altered on the molecular level before
they
> are "born" and are not tortured. they have simply had jellyfish dna
> inserted into their own which allows them a certain phosphorescent
> quality.
> amalthea
> On Jan 14, 2004, at 8:35 AM, snowdrift52003 wrote:
>
> > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
(i
> > would recommend you not buying the ones most
> > > carry which are called "jelly bean" parrots, as those are
> > artificially
> > > dyed and the process is extremely inhumane)
> >
> > Eeew. Any other kinds to avoid?
> >
> > Sierra
> >
> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
> religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 322 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
HI kelly,

Sorry to note about ur fish losses..

Even i had a smilar experience when i started fish
keeping.

I put the sea shells ( conch ) etc which i had
collected from the beaches and brought some from the
stores there into my 15 gal tank and same story. Every
morning i woke up to see a couple of dead fishes.. :(

Well i gave it a break and then after changing water
cleaning gravel etc etc i restarted again...

Also yesterday i learnt one lesson was

Not to mix 1 week old angle fry with 3 weeks old angle
fry since though the 3 weeks fry cant eat it full it
just kills it.. :(

I lost about 5 - 6 fry like this !!

Now i have to go and buy one more 5 gal tank :P

....SuNnY !
--- ~~Kelly~~ <dreamz64@...> wrote:
> Hi Everyone..... I just want to share with you a
> simple reminder that I
> learned the hard way over the past couple of days.
>
> I have a 15 gallon ALL Guppy tank with the most
> gorgeous guppies and many
> pregnant moms. Well.. I DID have. Sunday night
> I lost 2 of my fairly
> new ones... thought not to much about it as my water
> is 100%.. When I woke
> up yesterday I had 4 more dead, and before the day
> was over I had a total of
> 12 more dead, so that was a total of 14 dead fish in
> a 24 hour period. My
> water is still checking out at 100%.
>
> Long story short. I let my daugher put a 2 inch
> Cherub angel in the tank
> last week... ( a small 2" birthstone angel that she
> got for X-mas) .. It was
> NOT bought as safe for aquariums and apparently let
> off a toxic substance
> that was killing my fish. I removed the cherub last
> night and did a 50 %
> water change and lost no more overnight and none
> seem to be sickly today...
>
> So PLEASE.. NEVER put anything in your tank that
> does NOT say aqua safe, or
> was not bought as a tank decor... I am sick over all
> of my losses, but it
> was my own stupidity!
>
> Unfortunately our home test kits dont check for
> toxins in the water...
>
> Now I will wait a couple of weeks, do a few more
> water changes and then
> replace my guppy stock..
>
> Hugs,
> Kelly


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 323 From: eradiabashir Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Another newbie question
Hi, it's the hesitant newbie again.
I took everyone's advice and went to "look" at different kinds of
fish. I rather like the kuhli loaches. Does anyone have experience
with these? What is compatible with them? I do not trust the rather
bored 18 year old at the fish store.
I was told the tiny African frogs were good beginner things. Thoughts
anyone?
I don't want to screw up in my selections.
Thanks! ~Eradia
Group: AquaticLife Message: 324 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
hey there! welcome :)
i have a few kuhli loaches and i have to say they're fabulous fish.
some are really shy, and you won't see those in your tank very often
(they'll be hiding in the substrate or under rocks) however there are
quite a few that are clowns and do loops and silly tricks around the
tank. they're great at cleaning the tank and aren't fin nippers. they
will not attack small fish. be forwarned you MUST have a good screen
over your filter's intake because they are curious and love caves and
will end up getting sucked through the mechanism. i haven't had one get
killed this way yet, but i can't imagine it's good for them.
as for african frogs, i would definitely avoid them as a beginner
unless you're planning to only have large fish. those frogs do not stay
small for long and are carnivorous so there's a good chance you'll
start to see small fish disappear after a while. if you want
interesting things, get apple snails, they're fun to watch. and don't
forget there are many different types of loaches, all with unique
charms. one great one, though not the most esthetically moving, is the
weather loach. that loach can actually predict coming storms!
amalthea
On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:05 PM, eradiabashir wrote:

> Hi, it's the hesitant newbie again.
> I took everyone's advice and went to "look" at different kinds of
> fish. I rather like the kuhli loaches. Does anyone have experience
> with these? What is compatible with them? I do not trust the rather
> bored 18 year old at the fish store.
> I was told the tiny African frogs were good beginner things. Thoughts
> anyone?
> I don't want to screw up in my selections.
> Thanks! ~Eradia
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


http://www.puppetterrors.com
don't be afraid to scream...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 325 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
that loach can actually predict coming storms!

How?

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 326 From: sledge4cp Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: ATTN JIM
I have a 55 gallon tank and with the way my beautiful angels were
dropping I cranked the temp up to 86F to get the water temp up as
quickly as possible. The actual water temp got to about 84 at the far
ends of the tank.

I have since throttled it back to normal since the remaining 4 of my
orginal 13 seem to have perked up. I am still treating the tank as if
it were ick.

Actually, I did whatever I could as quickly as I could (which was
already a few days late due to my lack of knowledge on diseases) and
I guess if I save at least one is better then none.....

It sure was sad when my oldest angel's would not flush down the
toilet. They were to big !!!!! Geez that makes me sad :( What hard
lesson to learn.

Jim




--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
<sarah@f...> wrote:
> JIm,
>
> was wondering what temp you had your tank on ?
>
> When i had a bad case of ick in a previous tank i put it up to 30 C
For one
> hour (slowly) then brought it right down slowly again. It cured the
ick.
>
> Recently i also gave a molly that i have now a salt bath. We had
fugus, ick
> and pop eye. She is now fine. All i did was pick her out the tank
got a jug
> of tank water duilted a small amount of salt into it and rubbed it
gently
> over her, I read this on a website and wasn't sure but i thought i
would try
> it coz i couldn't bear to see her like that anymore. She is now
great
> completely clear of everything. Just something to think about.
>
> Regards
>
> Sarah & Tony
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 13/01/2004 03:00:55
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ATTN JIM
>
> Hi Jim, I was reading up a little on ich and I saw a picture of
> velvet which looks like ich to me just a little finer and thought
> maybe your fish have that and not ich. The treatment for ich can
also
> work for velvet but there is a specific product called jungle
velvet
> guard that is for the velvet. Also the website did say that one of
> the stages of ich will die without a host fish but I am still not
> sure if that goes for all the stages. I hope someone with more
> experience chimes in here because I want your fish to live! Good
luck
> with your fishies! Janet
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 327 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
it has something to do with being able to interpret changes in air
pressure, or so they think, no one is really sure how they do it
exactly. it's pretty interesting though!
amalthea
On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:47 PM, snowdrift52003 wrote:

> that loach can actually predict coming storms!
>
> How?
>
> Sierra
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 328 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
Hi Kelly,
 
When you talk about guppy young ones, I thought I can share my experience.   I have one female guppy which has given birth for about 40 to 45 young ones except five all of them are in good health.  I used to keep them in shallow water level at 5" height in a plastic tub measuring 3 feetl lenght by 1 feet width by 9'' hieght.  I used to feed micro worms and crushed Shriemp powder alternatively in every day. After a month I plan to transfer them in a cement tank of size 31/2' x 11/2'x11/2'. It is almost a month now and there are no casulty at all.
 
Prabhu G P L
'----- Original Message -----
From: ~~Kelly~~
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:51 PM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Live and Learn... Ughhhh

Hi Everyone..... I just want to share with you a simple reminder that I learned the hard way over the past couple of days.
 
I have a 15 gallon ALL Guppy tank with the most gorgeous guppies and many pregnant moms.   Well.. I DID have.     Sunday night I lost 2 of my fairly new ones... thought not to much about it as my water is 100%.. When I woke up yesterday I had 4 more dead, and before the day was over I had a total of 12 more dead, so that was a total of 14 dead fish in a 24 hour period. My water is still checking out at 100%. 
 
Long story short. I let my daugher put a 2 inch Cherub angel in the tank last week... ( a small 2" birthstone angel that she got for X-mas) .. It was NOT bought as safe for aquariums and apparently let off a toxic substance that was killing my fish. I removed the cherub last night and did a 50 % water change and lost no more overnight and none seem to be sickly today...
 
So PLEASE.. NEVER put anything in your tank that does NOT say aqua safe, or was not bought as a tank decor... I am sick over all of my losses, but it was my own stupidity! 
 
Unfortunately our home test kits dont check for toxins in the water...
 
Now I will wait a couple of weeks, do a few more water changes and then replace my guppy stock..
 
Hugs,
      Kelly
 



Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife Message: 329 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
Hi,

I am interested to know the size of the adult Kuhli loaches and their
colours. I have nine Kuhli loaches bought from the market but I could see
sometimes three, four and two.
I could not see all of them at once. I fear if they are hiding or eaten by
the big fish like Red tail and Albino sharks.
In fact I brought them young and it appear their growth is very slow. Am I
right in guessing or anything wrong in feeding.

Awaiting your response.

Prabhu G P L



----- Original Message -----
From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another newbie question


hey there! welcome :)
i have a few kuhli loaches and i have to say they're fabulous fish.
some are really shy, and you won't see those in your tank very often
(they'll be hiding in the substrate or under rocks) however there are
quite a few that are clowns and do loops and silly tricks around the
tank. they're great at cleaning the tank and aren't fin nippers. they
will not attack small fish. be forwarned you MUST have a good screen
over your filter's intake because they are curious and love caves and
will end up getting sucked through the mechanism. i haven't had one get
killed this way yet, but i can't imagine it's good for them.
as for african frogs, i would definitely avoid them as a beginner
unless you're planning to only have large fish. those frogs do not stay
small for long and are carnivorous so there's a good chance you'll
start to see small fish disappear after a while. if you want
interesting things, get apple snails, they're fun to watch. and don't
forget there are many different types of loaches, all with unique
charms. one great one, though not the most esthetically moving, is the
weather loach. that loach can actually predict coming storms!
amalthea
On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:05 PM, eradiabashir wrote:

> Hi, it's the hesitant newbie again.
> I took everyone's advice and went to "look" at different kinds of
> fish. I rather like the kuhli loaches. Does anyone have experience
> with these? What is compatible with them? I do not trust the rather
> bored 18 year old at the fish store.
> I was told the tiny African frogs were good beginner things. Thoughts
> anyone?
> I don't want to screw up in my selections.
> Thanks! ~Eradia
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 330 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/14/2004
Subject: Re: Another newbie question
it depends on the species, the black kuhli loach is a bit smaller, but
the common one you'll usually see (the tiger striped one) usually comes
in a sort of yellow to orange and black to brown striping pattern and
if they live long enough seem to max out at about 4" and about the
thickness of a woman's pinky finger.
the fish are extremely fast so it's unlikely that they'd be captured
all the easily by other tankmates but they have a habit of burying
themselves with lightening speed into the substrate when frightened
(even substrate as heavy as sea glass, which is what i use in my tank)
so that may be the reason you don't see them :)
i hope that helped somewhat!
amalthea
On Jan 15, 2004, at 12:33 AM, PRABHU G P L wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am interested to know the size of the adult Kuhli loaches and their
> colours. I have nine Kuhli loaches bought from the market but I could
> see
> sometimes three, four and two.
> I could not see all of them at once. I fear if they are hiding or
> eaten by
> the big fish like Red tail and Albino sharks.
> In fact I brought them young and it appear their growth is very slow.
> Am I
> right in guessing or anything wrong in feeding.
>
> Awaiting your response.
>
> Prabhu G P L
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 8:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another newbie question
>
>
> hey there! welcome :)
> i have a few kuhli loaches and i have to say they're fabulous fish.
> some are really shy, and you won't see those in your tank very often
> (they'll be hiding in the substrate or under rocks) however there are
> quite a few that are clowns and do loops and silly tricks around the
> tank. they're great at cleaning the tank and aren't fin nippers. they
> will not attack small fish. be forwarned you MUST have a good screen
> over your filter's intake because they are curious and love caves and
> will end up getting sucked through the mechanism. i haven't had one get
> killed this way yet, but i can't imagine it's good for them.
> as for african frogs, i would definitely avoid them as a beginner
> unless you're planning to only have large fish. those frogs do not stay
> small for long and are carnivorous so there's a good chance you'll
> start to see small fish disappear after a while. if you want
> interesting things, get apple snails, they're fun to watch. and don't
> forget there are many different types of loaches, all with unique
> charms. one great one, though not the most esthetically moving, is the
> weather loach. that loach can actually predict coming storms!
> amalthea
> On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:05 PM, eradiabashir wrote:
>
>> Hi, it's the hesitant newbie again.
>> I took everyone's advice and went to "look" at different kinds of
>> fish. I rather like the kuhli loaches. Does anyone have experience
>> with these? What is compatible with them? I do not trust the rather
>> bored 18 year old at the fish store.
>> I was told the tiny African frogs were good beginner things. Thoughts
>> anyone?
>> I don't want to screw up in my selections.
>> Thanks! ~Eradia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>>
>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>
>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 331 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Lawsuit seeks to dim glowing fish
The US Government is being sued over the sale of the
nation's first genetically modified household pet.
The Florida-grown GloFish is banned in California, but
this month went on sale in other parts of the US.

Two public interest groups want the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) and the Department of Health and
Human Services to halt sales nationwide.

Their lawsuit asks a federal judge to suspend sales of
the GloFish until the government regulates the biotech
pet.

Sales soaring

Joseph Mendelson of the Center for Food Safety says
not regulating the GloFish sets a dangerous precedent
for all future gene-altered animals, whether created
for food or fun.

Last month, the FDA said it would not get involved
because the fish were not intended for human
consumption and there was no evidence of an
environmental threat.


Cats for allergy sufferers could be on the cards
Californian wildlife agencies are expected to
re-examine their own ban next month.

The red glimmer of the black and silver GloFish, which
some critics call the Frankenfish, comes from a coral
gene that was added to the embryo of a normal Zebra
fish.

Scientists in Singapore came up with the idea to
monitor water quality, trying to get the fish to glow
in the presence of toxins.

A Texas company won the right to sell the GloFish in
the US, which reached the stores just over a week ago.


They cost five to 10 times more than other ornamental
fish, but sales have been soaring.

Although fish may be the first genetically altered
creatures to reach the marketplace, it is believed
others are set to cause as many ripples.

A New York company is currently trying to use
gene-splicing to create a cat that does not inflame
allergies.


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 332 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Re: Lawsuit seeks to dim glowing fish
there's no way this lawsuit will succeed. the fda is correct in saying
that the fish are not meant for human consumption, and since they will
die if released in the wild, this seems a bit paranoid.
i'm not sure why they would try to hard to genetically create
hypoallergenic cats when both hypoallergenic cats and dogs already
exist in the form of the sphinx, cornish rex, and poodle.
amalthea
On Jan 15, 2004, at 4:15 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

> The US Government is being sued over the sale of the
> nation's first genetically modified household pet.
> The Florida-grown GloFish is banned in California, but
> this month went on sale in other parts of the US.
>
> Two public interest groups want the Food and Drug
> Administration (FDA) and the Department of Health and
> Human Services to halt sales nationwide.
>
> Their lawsuit asks a federal judge to suspend sales of
> the GloFish until the government regulates the biotech
> pet.
>
> Sales soaring
>
> Joseph Mendelson of the Center for Food Safety says
> not regulating the GloFish sets a dangerous precedent
> for all future gene-altered animals, whether created
> for food or fun.
>
> Last month, the FDA said it would not get involved
> because the fish were not intended for human
> consumption and there was no evidence of an
> environmental threat.
>
>
> Cats for allergy sufferers could be on the cards
> Californian wildlife agencies are expected to
> re-examine their own ban next month.
>
> The red glimmer of the black and silver GloFish, which
> some critics call the Frankenfish, comes from a coral
> gene that was added to the embryo of a normal Zebra
> fish.
>
> Scientists in Singapore came up with the idea to
> monitor water quality, trying to get the fish to glow
> in the presence of toxins.
>
> A Texas company won the right to sell the GloFish in
> the US, which reached the stores just over a week ago.
>
>
> They cost five to 10 times more than other ornamental
> fish, but sales have been soaring.
>
> Although fish may be the first genetically altered
> creatures to reach the marketplace, it is believed
> others are set to cause as many ripples.
>
> A New York company is currently trying to use
> gene-splicing to create a cat that does not inflame
> allergies.
>
>
> __________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 333 From: Sarah Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: More Babies!!
HI Everyone!!
 
Got up this morning to find 5 newborn baby guppies hiding in our tank. They are now safe in a nursing tank and we keep finding more. Trouble is we don't know who it is giving birth....lol.... We have so many guppies now.
 
We just thought we would share this with the group :)
 
Regards
 
Sarah & Tony 
 
Regards
 
Sarah & Tony
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 334 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
 
 Hi Sunny,
 
 Im sorry about your angel babies.  Funny how we keep learning one lesson after another the hard way.
 
I learned the hard way to put panty hose over the bottom of the  plastic breeder when had my frit batch of fry and the bigger fish were grabbing their tails and killing them by eating their tailsand leaving just the tiny body and heads.
 
My guppies are ALL 100% now and the owner of the LFS that I sell my babies back to when they are grown gave me the most GORGEOUS dozen guppies to replace the ones that I lost.  A couple of the females are ready to have the babies anyday, so hopefully all will go well!
 
Hugs,
  Kelly
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/14/2004 08:48:17 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Live and Learn... Ughhhh
 
HI kelly,

Sorry to note about ur fish losses..

Even i had a smilar experience when i started fish
keeping.

I put the sea shells ( conch ) etc which i had
collected from the beaches and brought some from the
stores there into my 15 gal tank and same story. Every
morning i woke up to see a couple of dead fishes.. :(

Well i gave it a break and then after changing water
cleaning gravel etc etc i restarted again...

Also yesterday i learnt one lesson was

Not to mix 1 week old angle fry with 3 weeks old angle
fry since though the 3 weeks fry cant eat it full it
just kills it.. :(

I lost about 5 - 6 fry like this !!

Now i have to go and buy one more 5 gal tank :P

.....SuNnY !
--- ~~Kelly~~ <dreamz64@...> wrote:
> Hi Everyone..... I just want to share with you a
> simple reminder that I
> learned the hard way over the past couple of days.
>
> I have a 15 gallon ALL Guppy tank with the most
> gorgeous guppies and many
> pregnant moms.   Well.. I DID have.     Sunday night
> I lost 2 of my fairly
> new ones... thought not to much about it as my water
> is 100%.. When I woke
> up yesterday I had 4 more dead, and before the day
> was over I had a total of
> 12 more dead, so that was a total of 14 dead fish in
> a 24 hour period. My
> water is still checking out at 100%. 
>
> Long story short. I let my daugher put a 2 inch
> Cherub angel in the tank
> last week... ( a small 2" birthstone angel that she
> got for X-mas) .. It was
> NOT bought as safe for aquariums and apparently let
> off a toxic substance
> that was killing my fish. I removed the cherub last
> night and did a 50 %
> water change and lost no more overnight and none
> seem to be sickly today...
>
> So PLEASE.. NEVER put anything in your tank that
> does NOT say aqua safe, or
> was not bought as a tank decor... I am sick over all
> of my losses, but it
> was my own stupidity! 
>
> Unfortunately our home test kits dont check for
> toxins in the water...
>
> Now I will wait a couple of weeks, do a few more
> water changes and then
> replace my guppy stock..
>
> Hugs,
>       Kelly


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 335 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Re: Live and Learn... Ughhhh
 Thanks so much for the suggestions.   I have 2 15 gallon tanks that I put all of my babies in except for my guppies.  Those I let birth in the tank and I have alot of Anacharis in there that they hide in and do very well. Of course If I see a mom delivering her fry I take her out and put her in a breeding net and keep those babies separate until they are big enough to outswim full grown fish... However my moms seem to like to have their babies in the middle of the night and surprise me in the morning : )
 
hugs,
 Kelly
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/15/2004 01:29:37 AM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Live and Learn... Ughhhh
 
Hi Kelly,
 
When you talk about guppy young ones, I thought I can share my experience.   I have one female guppy which has given birth for about 40 to 45 young ones except five all of them are in good health.  I used to keep them in shallow water level at 5" height in a plastic tub measuring 3 feetl lenght by 1 feet width by 9'' hieght.  I used to feed micro worms and crushed Shriemp powder alternatively in every day. After a month I plan to transfer them in a cement tank of size 31/2' x 11/2'x11/2'. It is almost a month now and there are no casulty at all.
 
Prabhu G P L
'----- Original Message -----
From: ~~Kelly~~
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:51 PM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Live and Learn... Ughhhh

Hi Everyone..... I just want to share with you a simple reminder that I learned the hard way over the past couple of days.
 
I have a 15 gallon ALL Guppy tank with the most gorgeous guppies and many pregnant moms.   Well.. I DID have.     Sunday night I lost 2 of my fairly new ones... thought not to much about it as my water is 100%.. When I woke up yesterday I had 4 more dead, and before the day was over I had a total of 12 more dead, so that was a total of 14 dead fish in a 24 hour period. My water is still checking out at 100%. 
 
Long story short. I let my daugher put a 2 inch Cherub angel in the tank last week... ( a small 2" birthstone angel that she got for X-mas) .. It was NOT bought as safe for aquariums and apparently let off a toxic substance that was killing my fish. I removed the cherub last night and did a 50 % water change and lost no more overnight and none seem to be sickly today...
 
So PLEASE.. NEVER put anything in your tank that does NOT say aqua safe, or was not bought as a tank decor... I am sick over all of my losses, but it was my own stupidity! 
 
Unfortunately our home test kits dont check for toxins in the water...
 
Now I will wait a couple of weeks, do a few more water changes and then replace my guppy stock..
 
Hugs,
      Kelly
 



Yahoo! Groups Links




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 336 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/15/2004
Subject: Re: More Babies!!
Sarah and Tony,
 
 Congrats on your new babies.. Isn't it exciting?? Are these your first babies??     Isn't it amazing at how small they are.. almost microscopic and they are fast and hide well.     
 
The only way that I can tell which of my guppies has had babies recently is to look for a small skin flap or tear like spot where the babies have come out. Also the gravid spot lightens and guppy moms seem to get skinny faster than my other live bearers.
 
Keep us posted on how many you find and how they do!
 
Hugs,
 Kelly 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/15/2004 06:12:17 AM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More Babies!!
 
 
HI Everyone!!
 
Got up this morning to find 5 newborn baby guppies hiding in our tank. They are now safe in a nursing tank and we keep finding more. Trouble is we don't know who it is giving birth....lol.... We have so many guppies now.
 
We just thought we would share this with the group :)
 
Regards
 
Sarah & Tony 
 
Regards
 
Sarah & Tony
 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 337 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Female angel from my breeding pair needs help
Hi guys,

I wanted some help to save my angel..

One of My (Female)Breeding angel has become sick. It
doesnt eat anything nor does it swim, it just lays at
the bottom w/o moving.

It always had this dreamy look, but was actively
breeding and in the past 2-3 months has laid eggs more
than 3 - 4 times.

In fact just till yesterday evening she was okay, but
now i find its gills are a bit red and it seems to be
slanting towards one side.

I moved it to a 5 gal hospital tank and added melafix.
I added smashed frozen peas but it does not even see
it i guess..

Is there anything that i need to do ??

Please help me since i dont want to loose this angle.
I just brought a new 20gal tank for this breeding pair
and the tank is in the final stages of cycling :(

..SuNnY !

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 338 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Free of Toxins???
Hi there,     I am sure you all remember one of my last posts regarding the ceramic angel that I put in my guppy tank and it let off toxins and killed about a dozen of my guppies.
 
Well...... I breed them for my LFS Owner, so he supplies them to me for nothing, however I did 4 partial water changes like he suggested and waited 48 hours before I put 12 new guppies in the tank. 
 
NOW.. just 3 days later I am down to only 5 guppies again. I put those 5 guppies in our community tank and they are doing great.
 
 I have completely drained the tank and refilled it 3 times, rinsed the filter etc. The temp is back up around 78-80 and the owner said it would be safe to come in and get more fish for that tank tomorrow.   I personally think its to soon. He does know his stuff and I hate to second guess him, however I hate flushing my babies even more....
 
Can anyone give me ANY idea's, thoughts or opinions on how long or just what it takes to get anything toxic out of the tank, gravel, plants, filter etc.
 
Thanks so much..... I just get to emotional waking up to dead fish each day especially if it can be prevented.
 
ALL of my water levels are 100%. However there is no test for toxins.
 
Thanks so much, Hugs,   Kelly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 339 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Re: Free of Toxins???
I dunno about toxins.. but I do know what few tests I've been conducting on my tap water.. has convinced me to immediately stop drinking from my tap!  I buy only bottled spring water now.
 
I'd be interested in hearing what others say about toxins etc.  This stuff is scaring me!  I'm living and breathing the thoughts of water quality this past week!  I'm finding my water is damn near might as well be tapped straight from mexico!   My fish would probably do better if I just dumped a bunch of pepsi.. maybe diet would ease them into it first though.
----- Original Message -----
From: ~~Kelly~~
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 5:21 PM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Free of Toxins???

Hi there,     I am sure you all remember one of my last posts regarding the ceramic angel that I put in my guppy tank and it let off toxins and killed about a dozen of my guppies.
 
Well...... I breed them for my LFS Owner, so he supplies them to me for nothing, however I did 4 partial water changes like he suggested and waited 48 hours before I put 12 new guppies in the tank. 
 
NOW.. just 3 days later I am down to only 5 guppies again. I put those 5 guppies in our community tank and they are doing great.
 
 I have completely drained the tank and refilled it 3 times, rinsed the filter etc. The temp is back up around 78-80 and the owner said it would be safe to come in and get more fish for that tank tomorrow.   I personally think its to soon. He does know his stuff and I hate to second guess him, however I hate flushing my babies even more....
 
Can anyone give me ANY idea's, thoughts or opinions on how long or just what it takes to get anything toxic out of the tank, gravel, plants, filter etc.
 
Thanks so much..... I just get to emotional waking up to dead fish each day especially if it can be prevented.
 
ALL of my water levels are 100%. However there is no test for toxins.
 
Thanks so much, Hugs,   Kelly


Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife Message: 340 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Re: Free of Toxins???
 I know what you mean, but the toxins didn't come from my tap water... I let my daughter put a ceramic angel in one of my tanks for decorations and that is what we think caused the fish to die.  My other 4 tanks are all fine and they all use the same water and get the same royal treatment from me : )
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/16/2004 08:39:17 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Free of Toxins???
 
I dunno about toxins.. but I do know what few tests I've been conducting on my tap water.. has convinced me to immediately stop drinking from my tap!  I buy only bottled spring water now.
 
I'd be interested in hearing what others say about toxins etc.  This stuff is scaring me!  I'm living and breathing the thoughts of water quality this past week!  I'm finding my water is damn near might as well be tapped straight from mexico!   My fish would probably do better if I just dumped a bunch of pepsi.. maybe diet would ease them into it first though.
----- Original Message -----
From: ~~Kelly~~
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 5:21 PM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Free of Toxins???

Hi there,     I am sure you all remember one of my last posts regarding the ceramic angel that I put in my guppy tank and it let off toxins and killed about a dozen of my guppies.
 
Well...... I breed them for my LFS Owner, so he supplies them to me for nothing, however I did 4 partial water changes like he suggested and waited 48 hours before I put 12 new guppies in the tank. 
 
NOW.. just 3 days later I am down to only 5 guppies again. I put those 5 guppies in our community tank and they are doing great.
 
 I have completely drained the tank and refilled it 3 times, rinsed the filter etc. The temp is back up around 78-80 and the owner said it would be safe to come in and get more fish for that tank tomorrow.   I personally think its to soon. He does know his stuff and I hate to second guess him, however I hate flushing my babies even more....
 
Can anyone give me ANY idea's, thoughts or opinions on how long or just what it takes to get anything toxic out of the tank, gravel, plants, filter etc.
 
Thanks so much..... I just get to emotional waking up to dead fish each day especially if it can be prevented.
 
ALL of my water levels are 100%. However there is no test for toxins.
 
Thanks so much, Hugs,   Kelly


Yahoo! Groups Links



Yahoo! Groups Links

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 341 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Re: Free of Toxins???
wow, that's terrible? where do you live? i'm lucky as i live on long
island and all of our water is naturally filtered through the pine
barrens. we have some of the cleanest water in the country, but when i
was in college in upstate new york, we got water from an open aquifer
in the city and i couldn't drink it because of the parasites. may i
suggest though that you not buy bottled water since there are no
federal regulations on them and some are just as impure as what's
coming out of your faucet. (and don't forget NEVER to reuse bottled
water bottles as this can lead to ingesting toxins and bacterial
contamination!) a much better and cheaper solution is to get a pur
filter. this filter attaches directly to your faucet and removes both
chemicals and even the smallest of bacteria. it ends up being a lot
cheaper and much more healthy :)
amalthea
On Jan 16, 2004, at 8:32 PM, The Hamburgs wrote:

> I dunno about toxins.. but I do know what few tests I've been
> conducting on my tap water.. has convinced me to immediately stop
> drinking from my tap!  I buy only bottled spring water now.
>  
> I'd be interested in hearing what others say about toxins etc.  This
> stuff is scaring me!  I'm living and breathing the thoughts of water
> quality this past week!  I'm finding my water is damn near might as
> well be tapped straight from mexico!   My fish would probably do
> better if I just dumped a bunch of pepsi.. maybe diet would ease them
> into it first though.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ~~Kelly~~
> To: undisclosed-recipients@...
> Sent:Friday, January 16, 2004 5:21 PM
> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Free of Toxins???
>
>
> Hi there,     I am sure you all remember one of my last posts
> regarding the ceramic angel that I put in my guppy tank and it let off
> toxins and killed about a dozen of my guppies.
>  
> Well...... I breed them for my LFS Owner, so he supplies them to me
> for nothing, however I did 4 partial water changes like he suggested
> and waited 48 hours before I put 12 new guppies in the tank. 
>  
> NOW.. just 3 days later I am down to only 5 guppies again. I put those
> 5 guppies in our community tank and they are doing great.
>  
>  I have completely drained the tank and refilled it 3 times, rinsed
> the filter etc. The temp is back up around 78-80 and the owner said it
> would be safe to come in and get more fish for that tank tomorrow.   I
> personally think its to soon. He does know his stuff and I hate to
> second guess him, however I hate flushing my babies even more....
>  
> Can anyone give me ANY idea's, thoughts or opinions on how long or
> just what it takes to get anything toxic out of the tank, gravel,
> plants, filter etc.
>  
> Thanks so much..... I just get to emotional waking up to dead fish
> each day especially if it can be prevented.
>  
> ALL of my water levels are 100%. However there is no test for toxins.
>  
> Thanks so much, Hugs,   Kelly
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


http://www.puppetterrors.com
don't be afraid to scream...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 342 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/16/2004
Subject: Re: Free of Toxins???
I'll have to do some more research I suppose.. but the major test I'm
wondeing about is nitrates.. the nitrates in my water are 40 ppm. At my
work they're 20 ppm. (think yer in Mexico or something LOL) Can't reduce
that with a filter. Tested the bottled spring water and they're non
existant.. doesn't mean there's not things like what you talk about though..
parasites are freaky too i know... but I've been told that the regulations
that the spring water co I go through.. are about 50 times more than what
our local municipality goes through. The spring water that I get is also
filtered through .. I think it's a five step filtration proccess.

And so far.. with the one test I did.. that's obviously true.. coz the Fed
suggest is under 10 ppm or anything over 10 can cause gastrate (spl?)
problems.. or lead to stomach cancer. That scared the hail outta me so
that's why I switched until I learn more. GH and alkalinity and pH are also
off my testing scales.. had to get a high pH testing kit for that.. the
spring water was flippin' right on perfect.

----- Original Message -----
From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Free of Toxins???


wow, that's terrible? where do you live? i'm lucky as i live on long
island and all of our water is naturally filtered through the pine
barrens. we have some of the cleanest water in the country, but when i
was in college in upstate new york, we got water from an open aquifer
in the city and i couldn't drink it because of the parasites. may i
suggest though that you not buy bottled water since there are no
federal regulations on them and some are just as impure as what's
coming out of your faucet. (and don't forget NEVER to reuse bottled
water bottles as this can lead to ingesting toxins and bacterial
contamination!) a much better and cheaper solution is to get a pur
filter. this filter attaches directly to your faucet and removes both
chemicals and even the smallest of bacteria. it ends up being a lot
cheaper and much more healthy :)
amalthea
On Jan 16, 2004, at 8:32 PM, The Hamburgs wrote:

> I dunno about toxins.. but I do know what few tests I've been
> conducting on my tap water.. has convinced me to immediately stop
> drinking from my tap! I buy only bottled spring water now.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing what others say about toxins etc. This
> stuff is scaring me! I'm living and breathing the thoughts of water
> quality this past week! I'm finding my water is damn near might as
> well be tapped straight from mexico! My fish would probably do
> better if I just dumped a bunch of pepsi.. maybe diet would ease them
> into it first though.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ~~Kelly~~
> To: undisclosed-recipients@...
> Sent:Friday, January 16, 2004 5:21 PM
> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Free of Toxins???
>
>
> Hi there, I am sure you all remember one of my last posts
> regarding the ceramic angel that I put in my guppy tank and it let off
> toxins and killed about a dozen of my guppies.
>
> Well...... I breed them for my LFS Owner, so he supplies them to me
> for nothing, however I did 4 partial water changes like he suggested
> and waited 48 hours before I put 12 new guppies in the tank.
>
> NOW.. just 3 days later I am down to only 5 guppies again. I put those
> 5 guppies in our community tank and they are doing great.
>
> I have completely drained the tank and refilled it 3 times, rinsed
> the filter etc. The temp is back up around 78-80 and the owner said it
> would be safe to come in and get more fish for that tank tomorrow. I
> personally think its to soon. He does know his stuff and I hate to
> second guess him, however I hate flushing my babies even more....
>
> Can anyone give me ANY idea's, thoughts or opinions on how long or
> just what it takes to get anything toxic out of the tank, gravel,
> plants, filter etc.
>
> Thanks so much..... I just get to emotional waking up to dead fish
> each day especially if it can be prevented.
>
> ALL of my water levels are 100%. However there is no test for toxins.
>
> Thanks so much, Hugs, Kelly
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


http://www.puppetterrors.com
don't be afraid to scream...





Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 343 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 1/17/2004
Subject: Another update to my tank problems
As some of you know, I have been having problems starting out my tank
for the first time. My fish kept getting sick and I couldn't figure
out why. Silly me kept treating for the sickness but never really
thought about what is causing them to get sick in the long run. I
found out that I had hight nitrite level. Since then, I been testing
everyday and doing partial water changes until my biofilter got
caught up using Stress Zyme to help.

Well, I'm happy to announce that I have tested today for nitrite and
for the first time since I got the tank, I haven't had to do a
partial water change. I'll test tomorrow to see if it still stays
down but I think my biofilter may be starting to work now.

Anyway, thats the update. My fish have started to remain healthy
since I been keeping an eye on the nitrite and the fish who were
starting to get infected before with ick from the stress started
showing no signs of it when the nitrite got taken out of the water.
No spots whatsoever the next day. Weird. lol

~r0cks0ldier~
Group: AquaticLife Message: 344 From: Mindy Enochs Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: So new
Hello Everybody,
I am so new, I haven't even bought the tank. I have sucessfully done
the goldfish routine. I am looking for advice on equipment, specially
filtration and adding oxygen to the water. Do you all recomend the
biowheel set up in the hood setup? With this setup do you need more
ariation, if so how do you add this? I would like the least amount of
equipment hanging outside the tank. What the heck is a predrilled
tank? Also any recommendations on first fish? I am interested in
livebearers. How hard are live plants to keep? Are they any websites,
besides ebay with used equipment for sale? Would you recommend going
this route to save some money. My husband freaked out when he found
out it cost more than $5 to set up a fish tank.
Thanks,
Mindy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 345 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Sick Fish?? HELP
 
Hi there.. I am not sure if I have some sick fish or not, but I have some Mollies, swordtails and an iridescent shark that I just notice are flashing???  They are going over to the top of a tank ornament and rub against it like they have an itch.   I just noticed them doing this late last night. Not all of the fish in the tank are doing it, but 5 or 6 of them are.
 
I know this is not normal as all of these fish have been in the tank since at least September and have never displayed this behavior. All of my water levels are 100%.
 
Our LPS is not open today and if I need a medicine I am going to have to rely on Walmart.. Is there something I need or can get to help them?
 
Thanks so much!  Kelly  
Group: AquaticLife Message: 346 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: cleaning a filter
hi all. i have a old filter that is very dirty, i used it about a
year ago. than i moved and had to take down my tank, so it sat there
in a box for about a year and now i am having trouble getting all of
the lime and calcum out of it (i belive thats what it is). it is a
whisper 10.

any help would be great



Eric
Group: AquaticLife Message: 347 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: So new
Hi Mindy! I'm Shawn.. a newbie as well.. I'm also very wordy and type a million words a minute.. but have done tons of research.. love fish.. and have a 30 and a 55 gal tank.. been in the hobby for a whoppin' one year.  oh, a two gallon at home.. oops work.. think it's home heheheh..
 
Again., all this info is just my opinion.. not right or wrong. but it has worked for me.
 
no more than $5.. well that's pushing it! LOL  - Then again., my co-worker was at a garage sale.. found a 5 gal tank for $5 with everything.  BUT it did leak.. and I had to caulk it for her.. TWICE ugh.. heheeh.
 
And i DID find my 55 for free.. already had the other stuff to go with it.. built a 2x4 stand.. still to finish it., but the fish tank is going and everything and all it cost was the water I put in it.
 
I'm new too., but since there was no other posts on this that I could see.. I'll throw in a couple of words :)
 
TANK? and FILTRATION? To be all honest., I've found the walmart special to work well for a starter tank.  Either bio-wheel or UGF (under gravel filter).  People say they hate UGF coz they could be such a pain to clean blah blah blah.. I have one at work and the water tests I do are identical to the 30 and 55 i have at home with biowheels set up.  I personally think they're a good inexpensive filtration setup (especially for the smaller tanks.).. smaller meaning like up to 10 gallon maybe.  Once you go beyond 10., you're probably thinking a bit more money... so biowheel i would do.  There's lots of other filters out there.. but I like the biowheel myself (especially for the cost)
 
LIVEBEARERS: Molly., Platy, and guppy.. those are the three that come to mind as being hardy and whatnot.  At least that's what i've read in posts.. I have a platy that gave birth .. was surprised as heck.. wasn't "trying" hehehe. to have babies.. but man oh man he's so CUTE!  :)
 
PREDRILLED.. umm dunno. I'm ASSUMING this is regarding reef tanks for the most part.. for those big buggers (or little i suppose) that are on a stand and have all those bottles and tubes and yada yada yada underneath.. what they do is drill the BOTTOM of the tank so that they can run their filtration down through the bottom to the rigamarow they have going on under the tank in that cabinet.
 
OXYGEN.  For a small 10 gallon., I believe the UGF would provide enough of the aeration.  Same with a biowheel.  People who do quaranteen tanks.. or for sick fish.. they just use a (1) 5 gal bucket (well depend on size of fish) . (2) an airstone connected to tubing connected to an inexpensive air pump and (3) heater and that's about it.  so they can live off just those three things.
 
Even for my 30 gal.. all i had was the one biowheel.  To make my fishies happier and when I had some extra spending money., I purchased a powerhead.  They go in the water, grab air and water at the same time and force it out a nozzle sorta thing.. causes water movement and aeration.. them are good.  (water movement is a really good thing in my opinion.. i mean if you had no water movement in a certain spot.. it'd never get filtered right?  I did have a dead spot like that.. so I put the powerhead in that area.. works wonderfully!
 
SIZE OF TANK:  If you could find a free 30 gallon, that's be sweet.  The bigger the tank,the better to some extent.  IF something were to happen in a 10 gallon, it happens faster.. such as a problem :) so the quicker it happens the harder it is to control.  Also allows you to have more fish.
 
plus.
 
HOW MANY FISH: Recommendation on these freshwater fish.. is 1" of adult fish per 1 gal of water.  so if you had platy's.. they grow up to 2".. so if you had a 5 gal tank.. two platys would be about all you could have.. three would be pushing it for the ecosystem you're building.  10 gal tank.. you could have 5 platys.  30 gal. you could have 15 platys.
 
VERY IMPORTANT CYCLING: make sure you check up on cycling.. it's the process that your tank goes through from the first day you set it up.. until about two weeks to two months depending on how you do it   During this time certain things can happen that CAN and most likely WILL cause harm to the fish if you don't understand it.  There are ways to cycle your tank without fish.. I've never done it that way.. i've always used fish and never had any casualties.., but it makes sense and would recommend trying it.  can't hurt anything that's for sure. since you're not using any fish!
 
Go to google.com and type in "aquarium cycling" and also try "fishless cycling" readup on it and determine which you want to do personally... plus it'll give you insight on water chemistry.. a basic understanding at least is important.
 
WATER CHEMISTRY: pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, (then there's also KH, GH hardnesses and other things too) those first three are really important ones.  I wouldn't set up a tank without keeping an eye on these.  These are the things that you check with a test kit(s)  I think you can pick up the test tube and liquid kits for $20 that have everything you'll need for quite some time.  OR you can just bring your water in to the store and they'll provide results for free.. but it's a pain driving there all the time in my opinion.. worth the $20 for the kit.  (also test your tap water once so you know what it's chemistry is.)  The kit will tell you what readings are best to keep your tank at or ask on here they'll help.
 
WATER CHANGES: do them once a week at first.. up to 30% of the water at max.  I do about 10% once a week now that my tank is established and my water is crystal clear.. the only algae i can see is on the back wall where the biowheel dumps in water and air.. i think the algae like it there... but i just wipe it off once a mo.
 
IF YOU DO CYCLE with fish., set up your tank and let it run for a day or two before adding fish.  ALSO. don't forget to get tapwater conditioner.. it makes sure all the chlorine and chloramine is removed from water before you add water to tank.
 
ssooo...
(1) (tank with rocks and plants, filter, submersable heater) <-- probably get as a kit, and then all you need is test kit(s), water conditioner... oh yeah and food.
 
I'd guess $100 at max for all of this if you had to buy retail but shopped around.  Might be closer to $60 if you shop.
 
(1) (a) (possibly some chemical to reduce pH or up the pH if needed... this has always been a pain in the butt for me. I have VERY HIGH pH from the tap... i've finally found a product that gets the pH right near 7.0
 
(2) cycle tank with or without a couple of fish. add fish slowly (meaning in small numbers)
 
(3) water changes weekly
 
I don't do plants, i do plastic plants :)  but if you want a good low light doesn't matter what kinda light you have kinda plant.. My grandparents have a "java fern" in their beta bowl and it grows like mad without any assistance at all.
 
Before you get into havin' some babies.. I'd tackle all of this first.  well and make sure you get the daddy and mommy and not all daddys hehehe.  Having babies is no difficult thing... obviously if my fish had a baby and I had no clue LOL  Of course they had more., but withOUT my help.. one played survival of the fittest and won.  The others either got sucked up by filtration or were breakfast for the adult fish (probably even the mommy or daddy).
 
And of course there's more than this.. but it will get you started thinking anyway
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:38 AM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] So new

Hello Everybody,
I am so new, I haven't even bought the tank. I have sucessfully done
the goldfish routine. I am looking for advice on equipment, specially
filtration and adding oxygen to the water. Do you all recomend the
biowheel set up in the hood setup? With this setup do you need more
ariation, if so how do you add this? I would like the least amount of
equipment hanging outside the tank. What the heck is a predrilled
tank? Also any recommendations on first fish? I am interested in
livebearers. How hard are live plants to keep? Are they any websites,
besides ebay with used equipment for sale? Would you recommend going
this route to save some money. My husband freaked out when he found
out it cost more than $5 to set up a fish tank.
Thanks,
Mindy




Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife Message: 348 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: So new
ebay usually has great deals on all aquarium equipment because when
people move, they tend to leave their fish behind.
with a biowheel, you don't need extra oxygen added, but it can look
pretty and if you add certain medications to the water, it can be
helpful and for that you can go with something as simple as a small
pump and an air stone. i don't know about everyone else, but i love my
biowheel. it allows me to fully change my filter media but still
maintain a large colony of bacteria in the tank which prevents
recycling.
as for plants, something like an amazon sword leaf is hardy, doesn't
require a tremendous amount of light or care and will grow beautifully.
there's also a package available now at petco where you buy a little
backed of bulbs, drop them into an established tank and they will grow
some lovely and hardy plants. i bought one package and i have the
prettiest spotted and purple leafed plants growing now. as for
substrate, with the 2 plants i've mentioned, you're pretty much free to
use whatever you like. my main tank is lined with only sea glass and
the plants are doing very well. (almost too well as every few months i
have to cut them back) ...
amalthea
On Jan 18, 2004, at 8:38 AM, Mindy Enochs wrote:

> Hello Everybody,
> I am so new, I haven't even bought the tank. I have sucessfully done
> the goldfish routine. I am looking for advice on equipment, specially
> filtration and adding oxygen to the water. Do you all recomend the
> biowheel set up in the hood setup? With this setup do you need more
> ariation, if so how do you add this? I would like the least amount of
> equipment hanging outside the tank. What the heck is a predrilled
> tank? Also any recommendations on first fish? I am interested in
> livebearers. How hard are live plants to keep? Are they any websites,
> besides ebay with used equipment for sale? Would you recommend going
> this route to save some money. My husband freaked out when he found
> out it cost more than $5 to set up a fish tank.
> Thanks,
> Mindy
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 349 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: So new
In a message dated 1/18/2004 10:27:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, thehamburgs@... writes:
Hi Mindy! I'm Shawn.. a newbie as well.. I'm also very wordy and type a million words a minute.. but have done tons of research.. love fish.. and have a 30 and a 55 gal tank.. been in the hobby for a whoppin' one year.  oh, a two gallon at home.. oops work.. think it's home heheheh..
 
Hi Shawn and Mindy,
Shawn, excellent post!
 
Mindy, you can try for a used tank at local flea markets, garage sales, classified ads in the local papers, ebay, aquabid.com, or local online classifieds.  I have acquired my tanks through all of these as well as local aquarium society meetings.  I have any where from 2.5 gallon all the way up to 100 gallon and have not paid more than a dollar a gallon for a used tank.  That's not to say that I would not pay more, but have been lucky so far.
 
My wife bought one of the eclipse 6 marineland tanks.  Six gallons with a biowheel filter.  The only drawbacks to the biowheel filters are the wheels sometimes stop, usually clean the bearings or filter and it will spin again.  The filter carts need to be replaced monthly or sooner depending on your fish load.  In my wifes tank I took the filter cart and tore the foam off of it, dumped the carbon and put a sponge filter on it from an aquaclear filter.  Works awesome and I never have to buy another filter cart for it again.  The sponge is reusable.  If my water is a little cloudy I put a little filter floss on the foam and it clears the water right up.
 
I have been using Whisper filters, BioWheel filters, and AquaClear filters over the last few years.  I started with biowheels and whisper filters and am now switching all my tanks over to the Aquaclear Filters. The aquaclear use a sponge that is reusuable, just rinse or ring it out in some old tank water once every three weeks or so and put it back in.  You must use declorinated water or old tank water though, or you will kill off the beneficial bacteria in the sponge.  Money spent every month, zero.  Just the intial cost of the filter.   The filter is large enough to also put a carbon bag or a bag of ammo clear rocks, if you need to use them.  Or you can add an extra sponge on top of the one it came with.  Plenty of room and a pretty high gallons per hour rate. 
 
 
Good luck and have fun.
 
Mike
Group: AquaticLife Message: 350 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Fry care
Hello, I have what appears to be a platy baby. So far it has avoided
being eaten by taking cover under a rock, but as it gets bigger and
more easily seen, will it be more vulnerable? What would be the
cheapest way to assist it? I don't have a fry tank.

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 351 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: So new/live plants
--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mindy Enochs"
<mindysjunk@s...> wrote:
How hard are live plants to keep?

I tried two--one was a tall growing, willowy kind and the other was a
short, full plant with purplish leaves--it looked a bit like an
African violet. Both came in little pots that could be simply stuck
into the gravel bottom. The willowy plant was lovely, but it grew so
fast that I had to prune it regularly. The other one had leaves that
died, got mushy, and made the water murky. They introduced snails to
my tank. I went back to plastic plants after a short time.

We bought our whole 20 gallon set-up used, for $99, from a classified
ad. I think it's a great way to go. We got the tank, stand, filter,
net, gravel, big rocks, gravel vacuum, and bottles of stress coat,
ick treatment, water clarifier, ph test, etc. I'm still using the
food that came with it!

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 352 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: Re: Sick Fish?? HELP
hi kelly,

Try increaseing the water temperature by 2 -
3'Centirgade and also change about 20% of water.

....SuNnY !


--- ~~Kelly~~ <dreamz64@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there.. I am not sure if I have some sick fish or
> not, but I have some
> Mollies, swordtails and an iridescent shark that I
> just notice are
> flashing??? They are going over to the top of a
> tank ornament and rub
> against it like they have an itch. I just noticed
> them doing this late
> last night. Not all of the fish in the tank are
> doing it, but 5 or 6 of them
> are.
>
> I know this is not normal as all of these fish have
> been in the tank since
> at least September and have never displayed this
> behavior. All of my water
> levels are 100%.
>
> Our LPS is not open today and if I need a medicine I
> am going to have to
> rely on Walmart.. Is there something I need or can
> get to help them?
>
> Thanks so much! Kelly


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 353 From: nickfronk13 Date: 1/18/2004
Subject: help controling ammonia
hello im new to the board, and i have a question. My ammonia level
was at 3.0 earlier today, so i went to the pet shop and bought an
ammonia filter insert. I put it in my filter, and i just checked it
and it went from 3.0 to 5.0. Is that normal to go higher before
dropping? I am kind of concerned because 5.0 is a toxic level.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 354 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: A great link.
 
My husband found this link and it is great. It has an area called a diagnostic chart, where you just answer questions regarding to sick fish.  It sure helped us, SO I thought I would share it with all of you!
 
 
hugs,
 Kelly
Group: AquaticLife Message: 355 From: Jonathan Short Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: male or female?
Is there a general rule to fish being Male or female?
I've heard the females are bigger but not sure!
Any advice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 356 From: Jonathan Short Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Hi Everyone :o)
My name's Jonny, I'm pretty new as an Aquarist and thought I'd join a
group that looks serious and does'nt cross too much into the Marine
side of things (though I will one day)
Just a quick one really, wondering if anyone had any tips on Fish
Breeding. I've been told to turn up the heat to get Neon's breeding
but was a bit worried as to what effect it may have on the other fish.
It's a general community tank with Danio's, loaches, blue and black
neons and Harlequins.
Anyone got any advice or past history with doing stuff like this,
it'd be great to hear from you
Thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 357 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: male or female?
it depends on the species, but in many types, the female is bigger and
the male is more brightly colored.
amalthea
On Jan 19, 2004, at 7:37 AM, Jonathan Short wrote:

> Is there a general rule to fish being Male or female?
> I've heard the females are bigger but not sure!
> Any advice?
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


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don't be afraid to scream...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 358 From: Sarah Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: male or female?
With guppies that is the case, the male is alot brighter then the female and also has a  gonopodium as a anal fin, this is how the male fertilises the female.
 
It is the same with Mollies, platy's, swordtail's (in which the male also has a "sword" on his tail.)
 
With Tetras it is the case that the males are slimmer then the females. This is usually the case with Danios as well
 
 
Regards
 
Sarah & Tony
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 19/01/2004 16:55:01
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] male or female?
 
Is there a general rule to fish being Male or female?
I've heard the females are bigger but not sure!
Any advice?




Yahoo! Groups Links

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 359 From: tzuhouse Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: newbie to list and fish
Hi all. My name is Mary and we just started a fish tank. In 36
years, I've had one fish. A Betta. I think I killed it by cleaning the
tank too much.

Anyway, here we are again. Bought my son a 29gallon tank with
stand. Started it yesterday and put in our starter fish today. Four
long finned black skirt tetra, recommended by the LFS. Got a
rock and some fake plants. Actually doesn't look too bad at all.
Want it to look natural. Got some bubbles going. Power Filter.
Light. Heater set on 76. Thermometer on other side of tank
says 78-79. Guess we are just waiting for cycling to occur. Was
told by one lfs to recheck water in 2 weeks.

Any advice is much appreciated. I would love to put a couple of
angels in once our cycling is complete. Was told I could do
babies and they would be fine in community tank, but then told
not to do it in 29 gallon tank. Too small for angels. Looking at
cherry barbs, yellow labs, neon tetra, maybe some sort of
rainbow? Any thoughts? Are some of these cichlids? Was
originally going with cichlids but was told they are very
aggressive and too big for my tank.

Thanks.

Mary
Group: AquaticLife Message: 360 From: bbbuns2 Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: molly
hey does any one have any tips on breeding balloon mollys?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 361 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: male or female?
no not necessarily.

It also depends on the fins, the colours....

--- Jonathan Short <jonny_short@...> wrote:
> Is there a general rule to fish being Male or
> female?
> I've heard the females are bigger but not sure!
> Any advice?
>
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 362 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
HI Mary welcome to the group !

Congratulations on ur new tank.

I am also newbie here learning things by reading the
posts dayin and day out.. and would like to share my
views with you..

Please keep changing the water about 30 - 40 % for the
first few days during cycling. also though there are
no fishes in there, put some tetra flakes or any other
fish feed in small qty for the useful bacteria to
grow.
How long do you keep your lights on, in the initial
stages if u dont have many plants in there then 4 - 6
hrs is sufficient, but once its completely cycled and
contains flora and fauna, the keep it on for atleast
10 hrs a day. And try to maintain the timing
( switching on and off )constant.

Also after about a week u can add 2 - 4 danios. These
are very hard fishes and adjust to any conditions.
Also these fishes are very peaceful community fishes
and fun to watch.. My fav are the leopard danios..

29Gal tank would be a ideal community tank with
smaller fishes as mentioned by you, cherry barbs,
yellow labs, neon tetra, cardinals, danios and smaller
gouramis like honey gourami..

I personally dont have any experience with mollies,
platys and guppies but they look very pretty and
colourful if added. But i would suggest you to venture
into it later on..

Also please keep some test kits and medications handy
with you.

Wish you all the best and if you have any questions
however silly it might be please dont hesitate to ask
in this group...

Cause even the MASTER AT FISH KEEPING WAS A BEGINNER
AT ONE STAGE ...*WINK*

.........HOPE THIS HELPS...sUnNy !

--- tzuhouse <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> Hi all. My name is Mary and we just started a fish
> tank. In 36
> years, I've had one fish. A Betta. I think I
> killed it by cleaning the
> tank too much.
>
> Anyway, here we are again. Bought my son a 29gallon
> tank with
> stand. Started it yesterday and put in our starter
> fish today. Four
> long finned black skirt tetra, recommended by the
> LFS. Got a
> rock and some fake plants. Actually doesn't look
> too bad at all.
> Want it to look natural. Got some bubbles going.
> Power Filter.
> Light. Heater set on 76. Thermometer on other side
> of tank
> says 78-79. Guess we are just waiting for cycling
> to occur. Was
> told by one lfs to recheck water in 2 weeks.
>
> Any advice is much appreciated. I would love to put
> a couple of
> angels in once our cycling is complete. Was told I
> could do
> babies and they would be fine in community tank, but
> then told
> not to do it in 29 gallon tank. Too small for
> angels. Looking at
> cherry barbs, yellow labs, neon tetra, maybe some
> sort of
> rainbow? Any thoughts? Are some of these cichlids?
> Was
> originally going with cichlids but was told they are
> very
> aggressive and too big for my tank.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mary
>
>
>


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 363 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
HI Mary,

Heres a article on fishless cycling..

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html

..hope this helps..SuNnY !

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 364 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
HI Mary,

Heres a article on fishless cycling..

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html

..hope this helps..SuNnY !

--- tzuhouse <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> Hi all. My name is Mary and we just started a fish
> tank. In 36
> years, I've had one fish. A Betta. I think I
> killed it by cleaning the
> tank too much.
>
> Anyway, here we are again. Bought my son a 29gallon
> tank with
> stand. Started it yesterday and put in our starter
> fish today. Four
> long finned black skirt tetra, recommended by the
> LFS. Got a
> rock and some fake plants. Actually doesn't look
> too bad at all.
> Want it to look natural. Got some bubbles going.
> Power Filter.
> Light. Heater set on 76. Thermometer on other side
> of tank
> says 78-79. Guess we are just waiting for cycling
> to occur. Was
> told by one lfs to recheck water in 2 weeks.
>
> Any advice is much appreciated. I would love to put
> a couple of
> angels in once our cycling is complete. Was told I
> could do
> babies and they would be fine in community tank, but
> then told
> not to do it in 29 gallon tank. Too small for
> angels. Looking at
> cherry barbs, yellow labs, neon tetra, maybe some
> sort of
> rainbow? Any thoughts? Are some of these cichlids?
> Was
> originally going with cichlids but was told they are
> very
> aggressive and too big for my tank.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mary
>
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Group: AquaticLife Message: 365 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Hi Mary.. newbie here too.  Name is Shawn.
 
I'd suggest doing searches on google.. and read up on the aquarium cycling.  I myself believe in doing no water changes until you reach the nitrate stage of the whole cycling.  Ammonia spikes first, then nitrites, then nitrates.  Usually takes about 2 weeks to a month or more depending on different things.  It took my tank about a month and a half 'til it was completely cycled.  Fish are still happy.. one of the originals actually gave birth twice and I have a baby platy now.. that's about three mo. old.. he's a cutie!
 
In my opinion, doing water changes during the cycles just prolongs the ammonia and nitrite cycle.  Also.. once your tank is established.. I'd suggest NO more than 30% changes.  More change is not necessarily better.  Gotta leave the good stuff in there.. yer tap water has no substance.. I do 10-20% once a week.  I think it really varies on your fish load and etc.  I know some ppl that do 20% once a month with small fish load and it works for them.
 
The one thing I DO KNOW for certain.. is it's a good idea to not add anymore fish during these cycles .. the fish that are in the tank will 'probably' be able to handle the changes as they will be somewhat gradual.. if you add a fish from the store in the middle of an ammonia high.. it would probably mean problems for the fish.. and likely death.
 
seond suggestion I have is if you don't have one.. get a test kit like Sunny said.. and test the water every few days.. I checked mine once a day.. i'm compulsive I guess.. but that will enable you to know how far along you are with the cycles.  You can get paper strip test kits or the less expensive test tube with drops kits.  They sell kits that have all the kits in one box.  Another thing I learned.. if you use amquel to condition your water or ammolock at any time, check back here to find out what kits are compatable with those water conditioners before you waste money on kits that don't work for you.
 
I second Sunny's idea on the fishless cycling.  You already have fish though.. so I guess you'll have to try the WITH FISH cycling hehehe.  I've wanted to try the fishless cycling after I found out about it.. but haven't had the chance yet.  I don't believe in the 48 hr cycling products on the market.. others may .. I think that the ammonia idea sounds more logical and true to me.
 
I still keep my light on only six hrs a day.  I have never had an algae bloom or cloudy water, etc.  I guess others have that happen though.  Of course I have no plants either. want to start that some day., just haven't yet.
 
They say that it is normal for cloudiness to happen during your cycling.  It's not necessarily a bad thing.  I never had that happen, but I guess lots do.
 
There's much more knowledable ppl on here though.. see what we do is give you our ideas.. then they pipe up and correct us newbies heheh.
 
Black Skirt Tetra.. after reading up, I guess these are hardy. do well in high and low pH levels and only get about 2".. so they're a med/small sized fish.  I BELIEVE they are a bit more aggressive of the tetras.. but still a community fish suposedly.  They look sorta pretty so that's nice :)  I'd just suggest that you don't add any more fish until your cycling is done.  Just as any fish.. careful on what you add to the tank.  I think they suggest fish their same size or larger - i'd just check around first b4 adding more fish.. but you have a month or so to think about that :)
 
hey., and have your son do the tests on the water!  good science fun project! :)  Makes him realize why you can't get more fish yet!  :)  and congrats on a 30 gallon.. so many ppl start with 5 or 10 and don't realize that they can't put many fish in there.  (1" of adult fish per 1 gallon of water rule)  A 30 is a much more (typically) stable environment too!  Perfect size tank! - OF COURSE.. coz I got one!  hehehe.
 
Best wishes.
 
- Shawn.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish

HI Mary welcome to the group !

Congratulations on ur new tank.

I am also newbie here learning things by reading the
posts dayin and day out.. and would like to share my
views with you..

Please keep changing the water about 30 - 40 % for the
first few days during cycling. also though there are
no fishes in there, put some tetra flakes or any other
fish feed in small qty for the useful bacteria to
grow.
How long do you keep your lights on, in the initial
stages if u dont have many plants in there then 4 - 6
hrs is sufficient, but once its completely cycled and
contains flora and fauna, the keep it on for atleast
10 hrs a day. And try to maintain the timing
( switching on and off )constant.

Also after about a week u can add 2 - 4 danios. These
are very hard fishes and adjust to any conditions.
Also these fishes are very peaceful community fishes
and fun to watch.. My fav are the leopard danios..

29Gal tank would be a ideal community tank with
smaller fishes as mentioned by you,  cherry barbs,
yellow labs, neon tetra, cardinals, danios and smaller
gouramis like honey gourami..

I personally dont have any experience with mollies,
platys and guppies but they look very pretty and
colourful if added. But i would suggest you to venture
into it later on..

Also please keep some test kits and medications handy
with you.

Wish you all the best and if you have any questions
however silly it might be please dont hesitate to ask
in this group...

Cause even the MASTER AT FISH KEEPING WAS A BEGINNER
AT ONE STAGE ...*WINK*

.........HOPE THIS HELPS...sUnNy !

--- tzuhouse <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> Hi all.  My name is Mary and we just started a fish
> tank.  In 36
> years, I've had one fish.  A Betta.  I think I
> killed it by cleaning the
> tank too much.
>
> Anyway, here we are again.  Bought my son a 29gallon
> tank with
> stand.  Started it yesterday and put in our starter
> fish today.  Four
> long finned black skirt tetra, recommended by the
> LFS.  Got a
> rock and some fake plants.  Actually doesn't look
> too bad at all. 
> Want it to look natural.  Got some bubbles going.
> Power Filter. 
> Light.  Heater set on 76.  Thermometer on other side
> of tank
> says 78-79.  Guess we are just waiting for cycling
> to occur.  Was
> told by one lfs to recheck water in 2 weeks.
>
> Any advice is much appreciated.  I would love to put
> a couple of
> angels in once our cycling is complete.  Was told I
> could do
> babies and they would be fine in community tank, but
> then told
> not to do it in 29 gallon tank.  Too small for
> angels.  Looking at
> cherry barbs, yellow labs, neon tetra, maybe some
> sort of
> rainbow?  Any thoughts?  Are some of these cichlids?
>  Was
> originally going with cichlids but was told they are
> very
> aggressive and too big for my tank.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mary
>
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobssweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus



Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife Message: 366 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish Thanks, particularly for the info on the light.  My son keeps turning it off and I told him there was probably a reason to keep it on.  Now I can tell him why.  The lfs said to try not to change the water at all during cycling.  Hmmmm.

From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:50:26 -0800 (PST)
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish


HI Mary welcome to the group !

Congratulations on ur new tank.

I am also newbie here learning things by reading the
posts dayin and day out.. and would like to share my
views with you..

Please keep changing the water about 30 - 40 % for the
first few days during cycling. also though there are
no fishes in there, put some tetra flakes or any other
fish feed in small qty for the useful bacteria to
grow.
How long do you keep your lights on, in the initial
stages if u dont have many plants in there then 4 - 6
hrs is sufficient, but once its completely cycled and
contains flora and fauna, the keep it on for atleast
10 hrs a day. And try to maintain the timing
( switching on and off )constant.

Also after about a week u can add 2 - 4 danios. These
are very hard fishes and adjust to any conditions.
Also these fishes are very peaceful community fishes
and fun to watch.. My fav are the leopard danios......
Group: AquaticLife Message: 367 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/19/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish Thanks Sean.  Two weeks ago when we decided to get a tank, it was going to be a 10.  Was going to sit on the bar between the kitchen and living room.  Then, when I realized how much it would weigh with water in it, decided it probably would break the bar, so we moved up in size to 20.  Happened to find a 29 on sale with stand when looking for 20, so that's how we wound up with that.  I'd rather have a bigger tank so I could have cooler fish, but we don't have the space or the money, so we'll see.  I'm going to take a picture of the tank and put it in the section on photos tomorrow.  That way ya'll can tell me if the set up looks okay and all.

TTYL
Mary

From: "The Hamburgs" <thehamburgs@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:10:24 -0800
To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish


Hi Mary.. newbie here too.  Name is Shawn.

I'd suggest doing searches on google.. and read up on the aquarium cycling.  I myself believe in doing no water changes until you reach the nitrate stage of the whole cycling.  Ammonia spikes first, then nitrites, then nitrates.  Usually takes about 2 weeks to a month or more depending on different things.  It took my tank about a month and a half 'til it was completely cycled.  Fish are still happy.. one of the originals actually gave birth twice and I have a baby platy now.. that's about three mo. old.. he's a cutie!

In my opinion, doing water changes during the cycles just prolongs the ammonia and nitrite cycle.  Also.. once your tank is established.. I'd suggest NO more than 30% changes.  More change is not necessarily better.  Gotta leave the good stuff in there.. yer tap water has no substance.. I do 10-20% once a week.  I think it really varies on your fish load and etc.  I know some ppl that do 20% once a month with small fish load and it works for them.

The one thing I DO KNOW for certain.. is it's a good idea to not add anymore fish during these cycles .. the fish that are in the tank will 'probably' be able to handle the changes as they will be somewhat gradual.. if you add a fish from the store in the middle of an ammonia high.. it would probably mean problems for the fish.. and likely death.

seond suggestion I have is if you don't have one.. get a test kit like Sunny said.. and test the water every few days.. I checked mine once a day.. i'm compulsive I guess.. but that will enable you to know how far along you are with the cycles.  You can get paper strip test kits or the less expensive test tube with drops kits.  They sell kits that have all the kits in one box.  Another thing I learned.. if you use amquel to condition your water or ammolock at any time, check back here to find out what kits are compatable with those water conditioners before you waste money on kits that don't work for you.

I second Sunny's idea on the fishless cycling.  You already have fish though.. so I guess you'll have to try the WITH FISH cycling hehehe.  I've wanted to try the fishless cycling after I found out about it.. but haven't had the chance yet.  I don't believe in the 48 hr cycling products on the market.. others may .. I think that the ammonia idea sounds more logical and true to me.

I still keep my light on only six hrs a day.  I have never had an algae bloom or cloudy water, etc.  I guess others have that happen though.  Of course I have no plants either. want to start that some day., just haven't yet.

They say that it is normal for cloudiness to happen during your cycling.  It's not necessarily a bad thing.  I never had that happen, but I guess lots do.

There's much more knowledable ppl on here though.. see what we do is give you our ideas.. then they pipe up and correct us newbies heheh.

Black Skirt Tetra.. after reading up, I guess these are hardy. do well in high and low pH levels and only get about 2".. so they're a med/small sized fish.  I BELIEVE they are a bit more aggressive of the tetras.. but still a community fish suposedly.  They look sorta pretty so that's nice :)  I'd just suggest that you don't add any more fish until your cycling is done.  Just as any fish.. careful on what you add to the tank.  I think they suggest fish their same size or larger - i'd just check around first b4 adding more fish.. but you have a month or so to think about that :)

hey., and have your son do the tests on the water!  good science fun project! :)  Makes him realize why you can't get more fish yet!  :)  and congrats on a 30 gallon.. so many ppl start with 5 or 10 and don't realize that they can't put many fish in there.  (1" of adult fish per 1 gallon of water rule)  A 30 is a much more (typically) stable environment too!  Perfect size tank! - OF COURSE.. coz I got one!  hehehe.

Best wishes.

- Shawn.
----- Original Message -----
From: sunil kamath <mailto:sunnyvks@...>  
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish

HI Mary welcome to the group !

Congratulations on ur new tank.

I am also newbie here learning things by reading the
posts dayin and day out.. and would like to share my
views with you..

Please keep changing the water about 30 - 40 % for the
first few days during cycling. also though there are
no fishes in there, put some tetra flakes or any other
fish feed in small qty for the useful bacteria to
grow.
How long do you keep your lights on, in the initial
stages if u dont have many plants in there then 4 - 6
hrs is sufficient, but once its completely cycled and
contains flora and fauna, the keep it on for atleast
10 hrs a day. And try to maintain the timing
( switching on and off )constant.

Also after about a week u can add 2 - 4 danios. These
are very hard fishes and adjust to any conditions.
Also these fishes are very peaceful community fishes
and fun to watch.. My fav are the leopard danios..

29Gal tank would be a ideal community tank with
smaller fishes as mentioned by you,  cherry barbs,
yellow labs, neon tetra, cardinals, danios and smaller
gouramis like honey gourami..

I personally dont have any experience with mollies,
platys and guppies but they look very pretty and
colourful if added. But i would suggest you to venture
into it later on..

Also please keep some test kits and medications handy
with you.

Wish you all the best and if you have any questions
however silly it might be please dont hesitate to ask
in this group...

Cause even the MASTER AT FISH KEEPING WAS A BEGINNER
AT ONE STAGE ...*WINK*

.........HOPE THIS HELPS...sUnNy !

--- tzuhouse <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> Hi all.  My name is Mary and we just started a fish
> tank.  In 36
> years, I've had one fish.  A Betta.  I think I
> killed it by cleaning the
> tank too much.
>
> Anyway, here we are again.  Bought my son a 29gallon
> tank with
> stand.  Started it yesterday and put in our starter
> fish today.  Four
> long finned black skirt tetra, recommended by the
> LFS.  Got a
> rock and some fake plants.  Actually doesn't look
> too bad at all.  
> Want it to look natural.  Got some bubbles going.
> Power Filter.  
> Light.  Heater set on 76.  Thermometer on other side
> of tank
> says 78-79.  Guess we are just waiting for cycling
> to occur.  Was
> told by one lfs to recheck water in 2 weeks.
>
> Any advice is much appreciated.  I would love to put
> a couple of
> angels in once our cycling is complete.  Was told I
> could do
> babies and they would be fine in community tank, but
> then told
> not to do it in 29 gallon tank.  Too small for
> angels.  Looking at
> cherry barbs, yellow labs, neon tetra, maybe some
> sort of
> rainbow?  Any thoughts?  Are some of these cichlids?
>  Was
> originally going with cichlids but was told they are
> very
> aggressive and too big for my tank.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mary
>
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 368 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish
Great Mary!  Would love to see the photo :)  If you wouldn't mind, post a msg on here so I will know when to go take a look :)
 
- Shawn
 
P.S. Don't worry about having the 30 be too small.. it's not .. it's great.. that's a perfect starter tank.  Be glad you have it and not a 10.  A 10 would only allow for about 5 tiny fish.. or 2 or 3 med sized smaller fish. 
 
Now you have time to add fish (after the cycling) and learn about aquariums.  I like the small fish that school together.. you could have 10 to 30 of them in that tank.  and maybe one or two different fish.. I really like my neon blue gourami - he has feeler thingies.. is a good size for a small tank my size (same as yours)... I got a buddy for him and they were funny.. they were both using their feeler thingies to feel check each other out when i first dumped the other in the tank.  Then I have a bunch of small tetras and a molly and a platy and a swordtail and the neon blue gourami.  It's a very simple basic aquarium., with a lot of personality in it.  I also have a bristlenose pleco.  He kicks bootie at keepin the tank clean.  Don't get suckered in to buying just any pleco at the fish store as an algae eater..  until you've asked around on here or done research online though.. there's only a couple that I"d use in my tank.
 
Space?!  you can always find space for a 55 gal fish tank LOL :)  Actually I've seen these fish tanks that are coffee tables.. I'm sooo tempted to get one.  Or end tables even!  Some ppl think they'd be a pain or you couldn't see the fish or who knows., I can never find my fish until they come up to the glass anyway coz they're always hiding or playing in the plants... I got tons of plants in my tank.  I know my cats would love it.. and I'd love it too.  plus it wouldn't take up any "more" space.  Gotta really check them out though.. I have questions about how the filtration would work, what they use blah blah blah.
 
Keep your eyes and ears pealed for sombody with a tank.. and talk talk talk.. networking is the bestest thing in the world.  I got a free 55 gallon acrylic by talking my mouth off about fish non-stop. :)  Or go to swap thingies or flea markets .. garage sales.. yada yada yada.
 
Better yet., you may find somebody with an entire setup that they're just tired of.  I don't think I'll ever get tired of my tank(s).. but lots of folks do.. they don't find fish interesting., they think they're boring.  I strongly disagree.. All of my fish have personality (most different from one another) that warrants names.. when you start naming them.. and talking to them.. well you get where I'm going.  to the looney house!  LOL!!!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish

Thanks Sean.  Two weeks ago when we decided to get a tank, it was going to be a 10.  Was going to sit on the bar between the kitchen and living room.  Then, when I realized how much it would weigh with water in it, decided it probably would break the bar, so we moved up in size to 20.  Happened to find a 29 on sale with stand when looking for 20, so that's how we wound up with that.  I'd rather have a bigger tank so I could have cooler fish, but we don't have the space or the money, so we'll see.  I'm going to take a picture of the tank and put it in the section on photos tomorrow.  That way ya'll can tell me if the set up looks okay and all.

TTYL
Mary

From: "The Hamburgs" <thehamburgs@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:10:24 -0800
To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish


Hi Mary.. newbie here too.  Name is Shawn.

I'd suggest doing searches on google.. and read up on the aquarium cycling.  I myself believe in doing no water changes until you reach the nitrate stage of the whole cycling.  Ammonia spikes first, then nitrites, then nitrates.  Usually takes about 2 weeks to a month or more depending on different things.  It took my tank about a month and a half 'til it was completely cycled.  Fish are still happy.. one of the originals actually gave birth twice and I have a baby platy now.. that's about three mo. old.. he's a cutie!

In my opinion, doing water changes during the cycles just prolongs the ammonia and nitrite cycle.  Also.. once your tank is established.. I'd suggest NO more than 30% changes.  More change is not necessarily better.  Gotta leave the good stuff in there.. yer tap water has no substance.. I do 10-20% once a week.  I think it really varies on your fish load and etc.  I know some ppl that do 20% once a month with small fish load and it works for them.

The one thing I DO KNOW for certain.. is it's a good idea to not add anymore fish during these cycles .. the fish that are in the tank will 'probably' be able to handle the changes as they will be somewhat gradual.. if you add a fish from the store in the middle of an ammonia high.. it would probably mean problems for the fish.. and likely death.

seond suggestion I have is if you don't have one.. get a test kit like Sunny said.. and test the water every few days.. I checked mine once a day.. i'm compulsive I guess.. but that will enable you to know how far along you are with the cycles.  You can get paper strip test kits or the less expensive test tube with drops kits.  They sell kits that have all the kits in one box.  Another thing I learned.. if you use amquel to condition your water or ammolock at any time, check back here to find out what kits are compatable with those water conditioners before you waste money on kits that don't work for you.

I second Sunny's idea on the fishless cycling.  You already have fish though.. so I guess you'll have to try the WITH FISH cycling hehehe.  I've wanted to try the fishless cycling after I found out about it.. but haven't had the chance yet.  I don't believe in the 48 hr cycling products on the market.. others may .. I think that the ammonia idea sounds more logical and true to me.

I still keep my light on only six hrs a day.  I have never had an algae bloom or cloudy water, etc.  I guess others have that happen though.  Of course I have no plants either. want to start that some day., just haven't yet.

They say that it is normal for cloudiness to happen during your cycling.  It's not necessarily a bad thing.  I never had that happen, but I guess lots do.

There's much more knowledable ppl on here though.. see what we do is give you our ideas.. then they pipe up and correct us newbies heheh.

Black Skirt Tetra.. after reading up, I guess these are hardy. do well in high and low pH levels and only get about 2".. so they're a med/small sized fish.  I BELIEVE they are a bit more aggressive of the tetras.. but still a community fish suposedly.  They look sorta pretty so that's nice :)  I'd just suggest that you don't add any more fish until your cycling is done.  Just as any fish.. careful on what you add to the tank.  I think they suggest fish their same size or larger - i'd just check around first b4 adding more fish.. but you have a month or so to think about that :)

hey., and have your son do the tests on the water!  good science fun project! :)  Makes him realize why you can't get more fish yet!  :)  and congrats on a 30 gallon.. so many ppl start with 5 or 10 and don't realize that they can't put many fish in there.  (1" of adult fish per 1 gallon of water rule)  A 30 is a much more (typically) stable environment too!  Perfect size tank! - OF COURSE.. coz I got one!  hehehe.

Best wishes.

- Shawn.
----- Original Message -----
From: sunil kamath <mailto:sunnyvks@...>  
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish

HI Mary welcome to the group !

Congratulations on ur new tank.

I am also newbie here learning things by reading the
posts dayin and day out.. and would like to share my
views with you..

Please keep changing the water about 30 - 40 % for the
first few days during cycling. also though there are
no fishes in there, put some tetra flakes or any other
fish feed in small qty for the useful bacteria to
grow.
How long do you keep your lights on, in the initial
stages if u dont have many plants in there then 4 - 6
hrs is sufficient, but once its completely cycled and
contains flora and fauna, the keep it on for atleast
10 hrs a day. And try to maintain the timing
( switching on and off )constant.

Also after about a week u can add 2 - 4 danios. These
are very hard fishes and adjust to any conditions.
Also these fishes are very peaceful community fishes
and fun to watch.. My fav are the leopard danios..

29Gal tank would be a ideal community tank with
smaller fishes as mentioned by you,  cherry barbs,
yellow labs, neon tetra, cardinals, danios and smaller
gouramis like honey gourami..

I personally dont have any experience with mollies,
platys and guppies but they look very pretty and
colourful if added. But i would suggest you to venture
into it later on..

Also please keep some test kits and medications handy
with you.

Wish you all the best and if you have any questions
however silly it might be please dont hesitate to ask
in this group...

Cause even the MASTER AT FISH KEEPING WAS A BEGINNER
AT ONE STAGE ...*WINK*

.........HOPE THIS HELPS...sUnNy !

--- tzuhouse <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> Hi all.  My name is Mary and we just started a fish
> tank.  In 36
> years, I've had one fish.  A Betta.  I think I
> killed it by cleaning the
> tank too much.
>
> Anyway, here we are again.  Bought my son a 29gallon
> tank with
> stand.  Started it yesterday and put in our starter
> fish today.  Four
> long finned black skirt tetra, recommended by the
> LFS.  Got a
> rock and some fake plants.  Actually doesn't look
> too bad at all.  
> Want it to look natural.  Got some bubbles going.
> Power Filter.  
> Light.  Heater set on 76.  Thermometer on other side
> of tank
> says 78-79.  Guess we are just waiting for cycling
> to occur.  Was
> told by one lfs to recheck water in 2 weeks.
>
> Any advice is much appreciated.  I would love to put
> a couple of
> angels in once our cycling is complete.  Was told I
> could do
> babies and they would be fine in community tank, but
> then told
> not to do it in 29 gallon tank.  Too small for
> angels.  Looking at
> cherry barbs, yellow labs, neon tetra, maybe some
> sort of
> rainbow?  Any thoughts?  Are some of these cichlids?
>  Was
> originally going with cichlids but was told they are
> very
> aggressive and too big for my tank.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mary
>
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 369 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: newbie to list and fish
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie to list and fish BTW, Sorry I spelled your name wrong.  I have a son named Sean, so it was just an automatic thing with my fingers.  LOL

Mary



Hi Mary.. newbie here too.  Name is Shawn.

Group: AquaticLife Message: 370 From: tzuhouse Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: my tank - Attn: Shawn
I just uploaded my tank pic into the tank section of photos for the
groups. Let me know if you think I should add more plants,
maybe to cover up the heater? How do you do that successfully
and not have them touching the heater? Do I need some
driftwood? More rock? Can hardly wait to get more fish.

Looked at Painted Glass fish today. If I get cherry barbs (#?), 2
baby angel fish, turquoise rainbows? (#?), yellow labs (#?),
would the painted glass go okay? Is there a better choice?

Thanks
Mary
Group: AquaticLife Message: 371 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: my tank - Attn: Shawn
most heaters have optional "cages" you can put over them to protect
fish and plants.
as for painted glass fish, stay away from them. the treatment they
endure in the "painting" process is just brutal. if you want glass
fish, unpainted ones are still really cool looking and don't add to the
brutality of that process...
glass cats are also really great looking fish...
amalthea
On Jan 20, 2004, at 2:06 PM, tzuhouse wrote:

> I just uploaded my tank pic into the tank section of photos for the
> groups.  Let me know if you think I should add more plants,
> maybe to cover up the heater?  How do you do that successfully
> and not have them touching the heater?  Do I need some
> driftwood?  More rock?  Can hardly wait to get more fish.
>
> Looked at Painted Glass fish today.  If I get cherry barbs (#?), 2
> baby angel fish, turquoise rainbows? (#?), yellow labs (#?),
> would the painted glass go okay?  Is there a better choice?
>
> Thanks
> Mary
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 372 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
What is the best algae eater?  I guess I will need one in a month or so?   If I can't find a bristlenose, what other is recommended?

Mary

<< I also have a bristlenose pleco.  He kicks bootie at keepin the tank clean.  Don't get suckered in to buying just any pleco at the fish store as an algae eater..  until you've asked around on here or done research online though.. there's only a couple that I"d use in my tank.>>

Group: AquaticLife Message: 373 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
plecos are great, but they get HUGE. if you have a ten gallon, it might
not be the best bet. apple snails are really great all around cleaners,
they eat algae and food lying on the bottom and they're really fun to
look at. i'd recommend those. i have 2 and i'm thinking of getting a
few more...
amalthea
On Jan 20, 2004, at 2:14 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> What is the best algae eater?  I guess I will need one in a month or
> so?   If I can't find a bristlenose, what other is recommended?
>
> Mary
>
> <<I also have a bristlenose pleco.  He kicks bootie at keepin the tank
> clean.  Don't get suckered in to buying just any pleco at the fish
> store as an algae eater..  until you've asked around on here or done
> research online though.. there's only a couple that I"d use in my
> tank.>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 374 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Albino Bushy Nose Pleco (bristlenose)
Does anyone have any resources for information on the albino bushy
nose plecostomus? I saw one at my LFS in one of their pet tanks (not
for sale) and fell in love. I want to learn more information about
them and see if I can locate one locally (Austin, TX)

Thanks!
jcb
Group: AquaticLife Message: 376 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: my tank - Attn: Shawn
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] my tank - Attn: Shawn Thanks.  I didn't realize it wasn't a natural thing.  Just thought God made them that way.  Definitely will avoid those.

Mary

From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:14:00 -0500
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] my tank - Attn: Shawn


most heaters have optional "cages" you can put over them to protect
fish and plants.
as for painted glass fish, stay away from them. the treatment they
endure in the "painting" process is just brutal. if you want glass
fish, unpainted ones are still really cool looking and don't add to the
brutality of that process...
glass cats are also really great looking fish...
amalthea
On Jan 20, 2004, at 2:06 PM, tzuhouse wrote:

Group: AquaticLife Message: 377 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish I have a 29 gallon.  I haven't seen apple snails.  Will keep an eye open for them.

From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:17:59 -0500
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish


plecos are great, but they get HUGE. if you have a ten gallon, it might
not be the best bet. apple snails are really great all around cleaners,
they eat algae and food lying on the bottom and they're really fun to
look at. i'd recommend those. i have 2 and i'm thinking of getting a
few more...
amalthea
On Jan 20, 2004, at 2:14 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> What is the best algae eater?  I guess I will need one in a month or
> so?   If I can't find a bristlenose, what other is recommended?
>
> Mary
>
> <<I also have a bristlenose pleco.  He kicks bootie at keepin the tank
> clean.  Don't get suckered in to buying just any pleco at the fish
> store as an algae eater..  until you've asked around on here or done
> research online though.. there's only a couple that I"d use in my
> tank.>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>  €  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
>  €  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>  €  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 378 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
you can sometimes also see them in stores as "mystery snails." ask your
LPS, they should either have them or be able to get them for you...
amalthea
On Jan 20, 2004, at 3:22 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> I have a 29 gallon.  I haven't seen apple snails.  Will keep an eye
> open for them.
>
>
> From:amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:17:59 -0500
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] algae eater reccs.....was
> newbie to list and fish
>
>
>
>
> plecos are great, but they get HUGE. if you have a ten gallon, it might
> not be the best bet. apple snails are really great all around cleaners,
> they eat algae and food lying on the bottom and they're really fun to
> look at. i'd recommend those. i have 2 and i'm thinking of getting a
> few more...
> amalthea
> On Jan 20, 2004, at 2:14 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:
>
> > What is the best algae eater?  I guess I will need one in a month or
> > so?   If I can't find a bristlenose, what other is recommended?
> >
> > Mary
> >
> > <<I also have a bristlenose pleco.  He kicks bootie at keepin the
> tank
> > clean.  Don't get suckered in to buying just any pleco at the fish
> > store as an algae eater..  until you've asked around on here or done
> > research online though.. there's only a couple that I"d use in my
> > tank.>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >  €  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> >  
> >  €  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >  
> >  €  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
> religion....
>
>
>
>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 379 From: A.G. SPANOS Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: new member needs help
hi i am a new member witha big problem. i have a 30 gallon tankwith approx. 18 mollies,plecos.,gouromies,tetras,bala sharks,chinese algae eaters,crabs . but three mollies gave birth to about 80 babys but thats not the problem. the problem is that i have been battling brown water and it is winning the battle. it doesnt matter how much i clean it gets worse , then some petco guy told me to take out my u.g.f. i found out later that that is not such a good idea.i am somewhat naive to aquaria since i am somewhat new to it(only 3 months)buti got into it because the tank and fish were being neglected by my sisters kids so i took the tank and fish to add to my zoo of 3 kids, 3 ball pythons, 1 cornsnake, 1 iguana, 6 lizards, 1 chihuahua, 3 mice, and 8 horses.........lol..can anyone help me? like i said i have a 30 gallon tank with a u.g.f. which has two uplift tubes. one tube has a powerhead, the other a air stone and pump. it also has a mechanical filter that hangs on the outside(cascade 100). i bought the cascade 100 after aquirring the tank then found out the damn thing was to small. please help as i only know so much from the research i have done these last couple of months


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 380 From: jshkb Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Two ?'s: Bio-Wheel and Easy Plants
Hi, I have two questions for those experienced enthusiasts in the
group.
First, I have a Penguin Bio-Wheel filter, and I cannot find the
Wheel part. (I suspect my 8 year old may have lifted it ;-). I see
I can order a replacement online, but, will it still be effective
until I can get the new one? Does anyone know if it oxygenates the
water, or is it another filter?
Also, any opinions on which plants are both easy and inexpensive,
and decorative as well would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 381 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: new member needs help
HOLY wowzers!

>hi i am a new member witha big problem. i have a 30 gallon tankwith approx.
>18 mollies,

In my opinion (for what it's worth being a newbie myself), you problem
started right here.. before you went past the mollies. The pictures on the
aquariums they sell in the stores.. aint right. They have too many fish.
Unless you're a fish store.. or even if you are a fish store... that many
fish in one tank is asking for trouble I'd think.

1" of adult fish per 1 gallon of water. No more. In my opinion, the 18
mollies are too much already not considering the rest of them.

I think you need a couple more tanks or bring back some fish to the store
eh?! Yer fish prolly produce more waste than can be handled by your tank.
I'm surprised they're still alive.. but then again.. I've never tried to
overload my tank.

And if you haven't done it, BUY YOURSELF a test kit too! Get a kit that
tests pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

WHAT TO DO THOUGH? gosh. I ain't no expert.. if it were me though.. I'd
get the tank down to 30" worth of fish., put a good biowheel on there.. and
do frequent water changes .. maybe 10% every day for a couple of weeks?

If them things are still alive after three months.. I gotta write down the
things you spoke of coz them are hardy as hail!







plecos.,gouromies,tetras,bala sharks,chinese algae eaters,crabs . but three
mollies gave birth to about 80 babys but thats not the problem. the problem
is that i have been battling brown water and it is winning the battle. it
doesnt matter how much i clean it gets worse , then some petco guy told me
to take out my u.g.f. i found out later that that is not such a good idea.i
am somewhat naive to aquaria since i am somewhat new to it(only 3
months)buti got into it because the tank and fish were being neglected by my
sisters kids so i took the tank and fish to add to my zoo of 3 kids, 3 ball
pythons, 1 cornsnake, 1 iguana, 6 lizards, 1 chihuahua, 3 mice, and 8
horses.........lol..can anyone help me? like i said i have a 30 gallon tank
with a u.g.f. which has two uplift tubes. one tube has a powerhead, the
other a air stone and pump. it also has a mechanical filter that hangs on
the outside(cascade
> 100). i bought the cascade 100 after aquirring the tank then found out
>the damn thing was to small. please help as i only know so much from the
>research i have done these last couple of months
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 382 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: Two ?'s: Bio-Wheel and Easy Plants
yes, the biowheel oxygenates the water, but no, it won't be effective
until it matures. to help it along, don't change the filter pads behind
it, just rinse them in dirty water from the tank.
as for plants, try amazon swordtails. they're super easy, hardy and
really beautiful...
amalthea
On Jan 20, 2004, at 5:32 PM, jshkb wrote:

> Hi, I have two questions for those experienced enthusiasts in the
> group.
> First, I have a Penguin Bio-Wheel filter, and I cannot find the
> Wheel part.  (I suspect my 8 year old may have lifted it ;-).  I see
> I can order a replacement online, but, will it still be effective
> until I can get the new one?  Does anyone know if it oxygenates the
> water, or is it another filter?
> Also, any opinions on which plants are both easy and inexpensive,
> and decorative as well would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 383 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: Two ?'s: Bio-Wheel and Easy Plants
As regards filter i am not aware of it.

But plants u can check the links below.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.cfm?siteid=26&pCatId=768

http://www.plantgeek.net//forum/

hope this helps...SuNnY !

--- jshkb <jshkb@...> wrote:
> Hi, I have two questions for those experienced
> enthusiasts in the
> group.
> First, I have a Penguin Bio-Wheel filter, and I
> cannot find the
> Wheel part. (I suspect my 8 year old may have
> lifted it ;-). I see
> I can order a replacement online, but, will it still
> be effective
> until I can get the new one? Does anyone know if it
> oxygenates the
> water, or is it another filter?
> Also, any opinions on which plants are both easy and
> inexpensive,
> and decorative as well would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks!
>
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 384 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: algae eater reccs.....was newbie to list and fish
try out OTOCINCLUS OR SAE.

The main advantage of ottos is that their maximum size
will not be more than i guess 2".

SAE, there are false or identical fish so be careful
b4 u buy them. Also they tend to grow big, but
peaceful community fish. Check the article below

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html

BUT PLEASE AVOID CHINESE ALGAE EATERS.

...SuNnY !!

--- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> What is the best algae eater? I guess I will need
> one in a month or so?
> If I can't find a bristlenose, what other is
> recommended?
>
> Mary
>
> << I also have a bristlenose pleco. He kicks bootie
> at keepin the tank
> clean. Don't get suckered in to buying just any
> pleco at the fish store as
> an algae eater.. until you've asked around on here
> or done research online
> though.. there's only a couple that I"d use in my
> tank.>>
>
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 385 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: Albino Bushy Nose Pleco (bristlenose)
Check this out !

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=997


...SuNnY!

--- "J. Clower-Brown" <skyfire_jcb@...> wrote:
> Does anyone have any resources for information on
> the albino bushy
> nose plecostomus? I saw one at my LFS in one of
> their pet tanks (not
> for sale) and fell in love. I want to learn more
> information about
> them and see if I can locate one locally (Austin,
> TX)
>
> Thanks!
> jcb
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 386 From: Jen Clower-Brown Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: Re: Albino Bushy Nose Pleco (bristlenose)
Fantastic!  Thanks!

sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...> wrote:
Check this out !

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=997


...SuNnY!

--- "J. Clower-Brown" wrote:
> Does anyone have any resources for information on
> the albino bushy
> nose plecostomus? I saw one at my LFS in one of
> their pet tanks (not
> for sale) and fell in love. I want to learn more
> information about
> them and see if I can locate one locally (Austin,
> TX)
>
> Thanks!
> jcb
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 387 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/20/2004
Subject: DIY Breeding Set Ups
Hi all,
I have several hundred fry and need to setup a more effecient system.
I have seen DIY set ups with 15 ten gallon tanks stacked 3 rows high
and 5 tanks wide using 2x4s and cement blocks. I was wanting to try
something similar, but cannot find the website that described how to
build this. It was designed to be able to fit long flourescent lights
over each row of five 10 gallon tanks.
Has anybody built anything similar?
Anybody here have experience breeding in such big quantity?
I am guessing I will be using sponge/foam filters in each of these.
Are there DIY sponge filters?
What would be the best/most economical way to keep all the tanks
heated? I would think buying 15 more heaters would be too expensive.
If I kept the room heated to 80 degrees F, would the water stay warm
enough?
All suggestions and advice are appreciated, thanks,
Aaron
Group: AquaticLife Message: 388 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: DIY Breeding Set Ups
i would think that the water would not get too much colder than the
room, however i try to keep my fry in very warm temps at first to speed
up the growth cycle.
whatever you end up building, make sure it's really strong, that's
going to be a lot of weight!
amalthea
On Jan 21, 2004, at 2:57 AM, Aaron R. Martin, cmt wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have several hundred fry and need to setup a more effecient system.
> I have seen DIY set ups with 15 ten gallon tanks stacked 3 rows high
> and 5 tanks wide using 2x4s and cement blocks. I was wanting to try
> something similar, but cannot find the website that described how to
> build this. It was designed to be able to fit long flourescent lights
> over each row of five 10 gallon tanks.
> Has anybody built anything similar?
> Anybody here have experience breeding in such big quantity?
> I am guessing I will be using sponge/foam filters in each of these.
> Are there DIY sponge filters?
> What would be the best/most economical way to keep all the tanks
> heated? I would think buying 15 more heaters would be too expensive.
> If I kept the room heated to 80 degrees F, would the water stay warm
> enough?
> All suggestions and advice are appreciated, thanks,
> Aaron
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 389 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: New ~ Picture of the Week
Hi Everyone,

I would like to offer everybody a chance to have their favorite
picture(s) featured on the home page. I have been changing it
somewhat randomly in the past with pictures of my aquariums and fish.
However, since I can see mine anytime, I thought it would be nice to
see yours instead. If there are enough submissions I will gladly
change it more frequently.

I also own another group ~
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/
~ which I recently took over right after Yahoo! erased all the
pictures from the messages in every group, so it is empty right now.

Thanks,

Aaron

p.s. the current pic is an old photo w/ fake plants, I just like it
because the water was crystal clear and the fish were not too blurry,
its almost impossible to get them to sit still long enough for a
decent group photo.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 390 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: DIY Breeding Set Ups/Aaron
 Hi Aaron,
 
 If you find a way to do this, could you please send me the information? I too have soo many babies and need to do something. and pretty fast too.  
 
As you know, I breed Mollies, Swordtails and Guppies for our LFS and I am just running out of room in my baby tanks... The owner has given me 2 of his old 15 gallon tanks, but where to keep them is my problem... Right now they are in our office/computer room..LOL
 
I have roughly 65 Calico Mollies that are 2 months old, 40 swordtails that are a month old and roughly 50 guppies that are 1 and 3 weeks old. I have all of these in 2 15 gallon tanks and 1 10 gallon, but I have MANY pregnant guppies and mollies right now, so I need to prepare as there is just no room for any more babies, especially since the Mollies have gotten so big.
 
Like you mentioned.. Getting the tanks is not a big problem. The heaters, filters, lights and a place to keep them IS..... Seems that everyone that has a tank to "give" me has just that. A TANK. with none of the goodies to go with it.
 
Keep me in mind as you get the info.
 
Hugs,
 Kelly
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/21/2004 02:59:06 AM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] DIY Breeding Set Ups
 
Hi all,
I have several hundred fry and need to setup a more effecient system.
I have seen DIY set ups with 15 ten gallon tanks stacked 3 rows high
and 5 tanks wide using 2x4s and cement blocks. I was wanting to try
something similar, but cannot find the website that described how to
build this. It was designed to be able to fit long flourescent lights
over each row of five 10 gallon tanks.
Has anybody built anything similar?
Anybody here have experience breeding in such big quantity?
I am guessing I will be using sponge/foam filters in each of these.
Are there DIY sponge filters?
What would be the best/most economical way to keep all the tanks
heated? I would think buying 15 more heaters would be too expensive.
If I kept the room heated to 80 degrees F, would the water stay warm
enough?
All suggestions and advice are appreciated, thanks,
Aaron




Yahoo! Groups Links

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 391 From: schuyler sloane Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: painted glass
if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
subject.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 392 From: A.G. SPANOS Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: new member needs help
thank you for your response, it was much appreciated. what i meant was that i had 18 adult fish total..sorry. but i will research the bio-wheel that you mentioned as i do not know what one is and get that also...between all these animals i spend about 1200.00 a month on care besides a 300.00 electric bill..lol. but once again, thank you for your input as i will try this in my battle against the dreaded brown water and hopefully come out with clear water...lol

Mr and Mrs Hamburg <thehamburgs@...> wrote:
HOLY wowzers!

>hi i am a new member witha big problem. i have a 30 gallon tankwith approx.
>18 mollies,

In my opinion (for what it's worth being a newbie myself), you problem
started right here.. before you went past the mollies. The pictures on the
aquariums they sell in the stores.. aint right. They have too many fish.
Unless you're a fish store.. or even if you are a fish store... that many
fish in one tank is asking for trouble I'd think.

1" of adult fish per 1 gallon of water. No more. In my opinion, the 18
mollies are too much already not considering the rest of them.

I think you need a couple more tanks or bring back some fish to the store
eh?! Yer fish prolly produce more waste than can be handled by your tank.
I'm surprised they're still alive.. but then again.. I've never tried to
overload my tank.

And if you haven't done it, BUY YOURSELF a test kit too! Get a kit that
tests pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

WHAT TO DO THOUGH? gosh. I ain't no expert.. if it were me though.. I'd
get the tank down to 30" worth of fish., put a good biowheel on there.. and
do frequent water changes .. maybe 10% every day for a couple of weeks?

If them things are still alive after three months.. I gotta write down the
things you spoke of coz them are hardy as hail!







plecos.,gouromies,tetras,bala sharks,chinese algae eaters,crabs . but three
mollies gave birth to about 80 babys but thats not the problem. the problem
is that i have been battling brown water and it is winning the battle. it
doesnt matter how much i clean it gets worse , then some petco guy told me
to take out my u.g.f. i found out later that that is not such a good idea.i
am somewhat naive to aquaria since i am somewhat new to it(only 3
months)buti got into it because the tank and fish were being neglected by my
sisters kids so i took the tank and fish to add to my zoo of 3 kids, 3 ball
pythons, 1 cornsnake, 1 iguana, 6 lizards, 1 chihuahua, 3 mice, and 8
horses.........lol..can anyone help me? like i said i have a 30 gallon tank
with a u.g.f. which has two uplift tubes. one tube has a powerhead, the
other a air stone and pump. it also has a mechanical filter that hangs on
the outside(cascade
> 100). i bought the cascade 100 after aquirring the tank then found out
>the damn thing was to small. please help as i only know so much from the
>research i have done these last couple of months
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 393 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass No, I don't need articles.  I thought God made them that way.  Didn't realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday.  I absolutely will not buy something like that.

Thanks
Mary

From: "schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass


if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
subject.






Yahoo! Groups Links
  • To visit your group on the web, go to:
  • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
  • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
  • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


Group: AquaticLife Message: 394 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
I would be very interested in any article from a qualified author that says that many of these fish are killed during the process. Can you point me in the right direction?
 
Mike
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass

No, I don't need articles.  I thought God made them that way.  Didn't realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday.  I absolutely will not buy something like that.

Thanks
Mary

From: "schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass


if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
subject.






Yahoo! Groups Links
  • To visit your group on the web, go to:
  • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
  • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife Message: 395 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
here are a couple of good ones..
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml
amalthea

On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:06 PM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:

> I would be very interested in any article from a qualified author that
> says that many of these fish are killed during the process. Can you
> point me in the right direction?
>  
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
> No, I don't need articles.  I thought God made them that way.  Didn't
> realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday.  I
> absolutely will not buy something like that.
>
> Thanks
> Mary
>
>
> From:"schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
>
>
> if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
> NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
> natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
> during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
> someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
> them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
> months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
> subject.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> • • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
> subject=Unsubscribe>
> • • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <image.tiff>
> <image.tiff>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>


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don't be afraid to scream...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 396 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Thanks for the references. For myself, I stay away from such things as
painted fish. But there is really no evidence that I have read from truly
qualified authors that all fish artificially colored are hurt by the
process.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass


> here are a couple of good ones..
> http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
> http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml
> amalthea
>
> On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:06 PM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:
>
> > I would be very interested in any article from a qualified author that
> > says that many of these fish are killed during the process. Can you
> > point me in the right direction?
> >
> > Mike
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
> > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent:Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
> > Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
> >
> > No, I don't need articles. I thought God made them that way. Didn't
> > realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday. I
> > absolutely will not buy something like that.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > From:"schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
> > Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Date:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
> > To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
> >
> >
> >
> > if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
> > NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
> > natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
> > during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
> > someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
> > them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
> > months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
> > subject.
> >
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> http://www.puppetterrors.com
> don't be afraid to scream...
>
>
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 397 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
who would you consider a "truly qualified" author? name a few and i can
look around for articles...
amalthea
On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:23 PM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:

> Thanks for the references. For myself, I stay away from such things as
> painted fish. But there is really no evidence that I have read from
> truly
> qualified authors that all fish artificially colored are hurt by the
> process.
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
>
>> here are a couple of good ones..
>> http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
>> http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml
>> amalthea
>>
>> On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:06 PM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:
>>
>>> I would be very interested in any article from a qualified author
>>> that
>>> says that many of these fish are killed during the process. Can you
>>> point me in the right direction?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
>>> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent:Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
>>> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>>>
>>> No, I don't need articles. I thought God made them that way. Didn't
>>> realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday. I
>>> absolutely will not buy something like that.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> From:"schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
>>> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
>>> Date:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
>>> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
>>> NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
>>> natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
>>> during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
>>> someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
>>> them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
>>> months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
>>> subject.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>> • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>>> • • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>> • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
>>> subject=Unsubscribe>
>>> • • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>>>
>>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>>> <image.tiff>
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>>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>>>
>>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>>
>>
>> http://www.puppetterrors.com
>> don't be afraid to scream...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 398 From: jshkb Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: ? Plants on this group's Homepage
Hi,
I got some advice on easy plants yesterday which I really appreciate.

But,I was wondering, can anyone ID the plants on this forum's home
page? I am especially interested in the bushy looking plant on the
left side of the pic (it may also be the same one on the far right,
in the back). It looks like a good plant for fry to hide in if
necessary. Does anyone know how hard it is to grow?
Thanks!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 399 From: Sarah Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: ? Plants on this group's Homepage
We got some of that in our tank, It is a great hiding place for all the fishes babies, Wevdont know what  it is called but we find it really easy to keep it just keeps growing 
 
Regards
 
Sarah & Tony
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 21/01/2004 21:45:49
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ? Plants on this group's Homepage
 
Hi,
I got some advice on easy plants yesterday which I really appreciate.

But,I was wondering, can anyone ID the plants on this forum's home
page?  I am especially interested in the bushy looking plant on the
left side of the pic (it may also be the same one on the far right,
in the back).  It looks like a good plant for fry to hide in if
necessary.  Does anyone know how hard it is to grow?
Thanks!




Yahoo! Groups Links

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 400 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: ? Plants on this group's Homepage
Hi,
Welcome to the group. If you mean the photo here w/ the 9 fish in
the middle? sorry, that is an old pic of mine w/ fake (plastic)
plants. it might be Camboda replica? "> ...ID the plants on this
forum's home page? I am especially interested in the bushy looking
plant on the left side of the pic..."

If you want - "...some advice on easy plants...a good plant for fry
to hide in..." - I highly recommend ~ HORNWORT ~ , cheap, readily
available, grows like a weed, thrives in any light 1 watt per gallon
or greater, fast growing -means it out competes Algae (therby
preventing or drastically reducing it) for available nutrients like
phosphates, CO2, etc. It can float or be weighted down (or both).
Best part is you can just break off a piece about a few inches in
size and you have a 'new' plant = easy to propagate

another easy plants that is great for fry is Java Moss

hope that helps,
Aaron

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "jshkb"
<jshkb@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I got some advice on easy plants yesterday which I really
appreciate.
>
> But,I was wondering, can anyone ID the plants on this forum's home
> page? I am especially interested in the bushy looking plant on the
> left side of the pic (it may also be the same one on the far right,
> in the back). It looks like a good plant for fry to hide in if
> necessary. Does anyone know how hard it is to grow?
> Thanks!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 401 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: new member needs help
The biowheel may not be the 'solution' though.. so please don't think
that'll solve it.. there's much more involved.

http://home.comcast.net/~shawnonline/aip.htm

Here's a link to a web site that I started.. got lots to do on it and
changes to make.. but it sounds like the info could help out a bit... it's
no solution or perfect way to do things., but it may help on your journey to
learn more about different things. It's a summary of things I've learned
through experience or read about.

cycling is a key part to read and the filtration types is kinda good.. I'm
gonna work on it and make it much better., but it's a start.

The reason I think the biowheel would help out lots.. is it has a blue floss
material pad that will catch lots of yucky particles.. that may help with
your brown water problem... could also be that your tank just needs time..
but that's a lot of fish to not have any kind of "mechanical" filtration..
meaning the blue floss pad part. then the biowheel works with good bacteria
and oxygen .. you can read about it on that site i've started.

Let me know what you think of the site and if it's of any help to you
please.! Thanks :)

- Shawn.


>From: "A.G. SPANOS" <popisr2003@...>
>Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new member needs help
>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:17:25 -0800 (PST)
>
>thank you for your response, it was much appreciated. what i meant was that
>i had 18 adult fish total..sorry. but i will research the bio-wheel that
>you mentioned as i do not know what one is and get that also...between all
>these animals i spend about 1200.00 a month on care besides a 300.00
>electric bill..lol. but once again, thank you for your input as i will try
>this in my battle against the dreaded brown water and hopefully come out
>with clear water...lol
>
>Mr and Mrs Hamburg <thehamburgs@...> wrote:HOLY wowzers!
>
> >hi i am a new member witha big problem. i have a 30 gallon tankwith
>approx.
> >18 mollies,
>
>In my opinion (for what it's worth being a newbie myself), you problem
>started right here.. before you went past the mollies. The pictures on the
>aquariums they sell in the stores.. aint right. They have too many fish.
>Unless you're a fish store.. or even if you are a fish store... that many
>fish in one tank is asking for trouble I'd think.
>
>1" of adult fish per 1 gallon of water. No more. In my opinion, the 18
>mollies are too much already not considering the rest of them.
>
>I think you need a couple more tanks or bring back some fish to the store
>eh?! Yer fish prolly produce more waste than can be handled by your tank.
>I'm surprised they're still alive.. but then again.. I've never tried to
>overload my tank.
>
>And if you haven't done it, BUY YOURSELF a test kit too! Get a kit that
>tests pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
>
>WHAT TO DO THOUGH? gosh. I ain't no expert.. if it were me though.. I'd
>get the tank down to 30" worth of fish., put a good biowheel on there.. and
>do frequent water changes .. maybe 10% every day for a couple of weeks?
>
>If them things are still alive after three months.. I gotta write down the
>things you spoke of coz them are hardy as hail!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>plecos.,gouromies,tetras,bala sharks,chinese algae eaters,crabs . but three
>mollies gave birth to about 80 babys but thats not the problem. the problem
>is that i have been battling brown water and it is winning the battle. it
>doesnt matter how much i clean it gets worse , then some petco guy told me
>to take out my u.g.f. i found out later that that is not such a good idea.i
>am somewhat naive to aquaria since i am somewhat new to it(only 3
>months)buti got into it because the tank and fish were being neglected by
>my
>sisters kids so i took the tank and fish to add to my zoo of 3 kids, 3 ball
>pythons, 1 cornsnake, 1 iguana, 6 lizards, 1 chihuahua, 3 mice, and 8
>horses.........lol..can anyone help me? like i said i have a 30 gallon tank
>with a u.g.f. which has two uplift tubes. one tube has a powerhead, the
>other a air stone and pump. it also has a mechanical filter that hangs on
>the outside(cascade
> > 100). i bought the cascade 100 after aquirring the tank then found out
> >the damn thing was to small. please help as i only know so much from the
> >research i have done these last couple of months
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
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>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 402 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
thats horrible..

--- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
> here are a couple of good ones..
>
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
>
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml
> amalthea
>
> On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:06 PM, M Reed Enterprises
> wrote:
>
> > I would be very interested in any article from a
> qualified author that
> > says that many of these fish are killed during the
> process. Can you
> > point me in the right direction?
> > �
> > Mike
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
> > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent:Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
> > Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
> painted glass
> >
> > No, I don't need articles. �I thought God made
> them that way. �Didn't
> > realize it was actually paint until someone
> emailed me yesterday. �I
> > absolutely will not buy something like that.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > From:"schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
> >
>
Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Date:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
> > To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted
> glass
> >
> >
> >
> > if you are talking about the painted glass fish i
> highly reccomend
> > NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish
> is cruel, there
> > natural slime coat is removed and then they colors
> are painted on
> > during this process a large quantity of fish are
> killed just so
> > someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have
> experience will buy
> > them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off
> within a few
> > months. if you like i could find some articules
> forr you on this
> > subject.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > �
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> > � � To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> > �
>
FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
>
<mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
>
> > subject=Unsubscribe>
> > � � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> > �
> > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
> >
>
FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> theYahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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>
> http://www.puppetterrors.com
> don't be afraid to scream...
>
>
>
>
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>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 403 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: ? Plants on this group's Homepage
i think its cobamba or ambulia.

They are stem plants and u can cut them and replant.
They grow very fast and will need to trim and replant
once a week to 10 days.

They are easy to grow provided u have sufficient
lighting.

--- Sarah <sarah@...> wrote:
> We got some of that in our tank, It is a great
> hiding place for all the
> fishes babies, Wevdont know what it is called but
> we find it really easy to
> keep it just keeps growing
>
> Regards
>
> Sarah & Tony
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 21/01/2004 21:45:49
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ? Plants
> on this group's Homepage
>
> Hi,
> I got some advice on easy plants yesterday which I
> really appreciate.
>
> But,I was wondering, can anyone ID the plants on
> this forum's home
> page? I am especially interested in the bushy
> looking plant on the
> left side of the pic (it may also be the same one on
> the far right,
> in the back). It looks like a good plant for fry to
> hide in if
> necessary. Does anyone know how hard it is to grow?
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
>


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 404 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/21/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
that horrible will never buy one of those again. that is so cruel,
stupid people wanting to make a buck.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 405 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
So let me get this right!
They actually take the fish and PAINT it?
How do they paint them?
"Here, can you just sit still a minute, just got a dash of blue to add"
So cruel
Is it just these fish that get a spot of make up or do others get this
atrcious treatment too?

-----Original Message-----
From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:15 PM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass


here are a couple of good ones..
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml
amalthea

On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:06 PM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:

> I would be very interested in any article from a qualified author that
> says that many of these fish are killed during the process. Can you
> point me in the right direction?
>  
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
> No, I don't need articles.  I thought God made them that way.  Didn't
> realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday.  I
> absolutely will not buy something like that.
>
> Thanks
> Mary
>
>
> From:"schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
>
>
> if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
> NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
> natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
> during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
> someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
> them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
> months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
> subject.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> *
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
email to:
> * FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
> subject=Unsubscribe>
> * * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <image.tiff>
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>  
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>  
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Service.
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 406 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: (no subject)
I've had my Aquarium for about 4 months and think I'm ready to start putting
some Real live plants in there.
Can anyone give me a rough guide as what they started with and how difficult
they were to keep.
And do any particular type of plant need a particular substrate?
Also, does anyone keep Marine fish too and how long had you kept tropical
for before you went into marine keeping?
Don't worry I'm not thinking of going Marine for a long time yet, I'd like a
bigger tropical tank first, but it would be nice to get some more info.
By the way, I'm jonny, I'm pretty new to the group, but if anyone wants to
get to know what I look like or what I do etc you can have a look at my
website.
It's http://www.geocities.com/jonny_short
<http://www.geocities.com/jonny_short>



Jonny Short
Churchill
Avalon Court
Nottingham Retainers
3rd Floor
<mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...




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Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
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Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 407 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
sometimes they strip the fish of it's protective slime coat with a
chemical bath, paint it and then put it in another bath to replace the
coat and some fish, such as painted glass fish actually get injections
of pigment into their flesh. either way it's barbaric. i breed bubble
gum parrots (a mix of a blood parrot and a pink convict) and you
generally won't find the ones i breed in the store, but you will find
dyed ones called "jelly bean" parrots. they come painted blue, green,
purple and pink but the saddest bit is that the ones i breed come out
in two colors. an albino with iridescent blue streaks in the dorsal fin
and a light pink with electric orange across the back and belly.
they're really really beautiful and much happier and healthier than the
dyed ones (which are often stunted, sterile and short lived.)
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 3:17 AM, Short Jonathan wrote:

> So let me get this right!
> They actually take the fish and PAINT it?
> How do they paint them?
> "Here, can you just sit still a minute, just got a dash of blue to add"
> So cruel
> Is it just these fish that get a spot of make up or do others get this
> atrcious treatment too?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:15 PM
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
>
> here are a couple of good ones..
> http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
> http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml
> amalthea
>
> On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:06 PM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:
>
> > I would be very interested in any article from a qualified author
> that 
> > says that many of these fish are killed during the process. Can you 
> > point me in the right direction?
> >  
> > Mike
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
> > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent:Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
> > Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
> >
> > No, I don't need articles.  I thought God made them that way.
>  Didn't 
> > realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday.  I 
> > absolutely will not buy something like that.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > From:"schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
> > Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Date:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
> > To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
> >
> >
> >
> > if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
> > NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
> > natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
> > during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
> > someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
> > them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
> > months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
> > subject.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >       *       To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >       *
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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>
>
> http://www.puppetterrors.com
> don't be afraid to scream...
>
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>
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> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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> Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank
> you.
>
> Churchill Insurance Group plc.  Company Registration Number - 2280426.
> England.
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 408 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
 
 Aren't the panted fish the ones that are injected with a dye??  We were looking at fish one day and a couple came in and order 200 pink ones to go in fish bowls on the tables at their wedding reception.   I thought I heard the clerk telling them that they are injected with the color and that it will last any where from 2-12 months.
 
There was another kind of fish there, that she was explaining how they take a white fish and actually soak them in a colored dye... Like food coloring... but those fish were to big for what the couple was looking for so I couldn't hear anymore information.
 
Kelly
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 01/22/2004 03:21:43 AM
Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
 
So let me get this right!
They actually take the fish and PAINT it?
How do they paint them?
"Here, can you just sit still a minute, just got a dash of blue to add"
So cruel
Is it just these fish that get a spot of make up or do others get this
atrcious treatment too?

-----Original Message-----
From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:15 PM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass


here are a couple of good ones..
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml
amalthea

On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:06 PM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:

> I would be very interested in any article from a qualified author that 
> says that many of these fish are killed during the process. Can you 
> point me in the right direction?
>  
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
> No, I don't need articles.  I thought God made them that way.  Didn't 
> realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday.  I 
> absolutely will not buy something like that.
>
> Thanks
> Mary
>
>
> From:"schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
>
>
> if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
> NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
> natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
> during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
> someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
> them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
> months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
> subject.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>       *       To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       *
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>       *             *       To unsubscribe from this group, send an
email to:
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> subject=Unsubscribe>
>       *             *       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
Yahoo! Terms of 
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Churchill Insurance Group plc.  Company Registration Number - 2280426.
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1DP.





Yahoo! Groups Links

 
Group: AquaticLife Message: 409 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
Oh my god that's absolutely awful.
Is that just in the US I've never heard of that in the UK, I'm sure there'd
be an animal rights law against it.
I can't beleive they actually do stuff like that.
It's quite saddening isn't it? :o(

-----Original Message-----
From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:40 PM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass




Aren't the panted fish the ones that are injected with a dye?? We were
looking at fish one day and a couple came in and order 200 pink ones to go
in fish bowls on the tables at their wedding reception. I thought I heard
the clerk telling them that they are injected with the color and that it
will last any where from 2-12 months.

There was another kind of fish there, that she was explaining how they take
a white fish and actually soak them in a colored dye... Like food
coloring... but those fish were to big for what the couple was looking for
so I couldn't hear anymore information.

Kelly
-------Original Message-------

From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 01/22/2004 03:21:43 AM
To: 'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'
<mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass

So let me get this right!
They actually take the fish and PAINT it?
How do they paint them?
"Here, can you just sit still a minute, just got a dash of blue to add"
So cruel
Is it just these fish that get a spot of make up or do others get this
atrcious treatment too?

-----Original Message-----
From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:15 PM
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass


here are a couple of good ones..
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
<http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm>
http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml
<http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml>
amalthea

On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:06 PM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:

> I would be very interested in any article from a qualified author that
> says that many of these fish are killed during the process. Can you
> point me in the right direction?
>
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
> No, I don't need articles. I thought God made them that way. Didn't
> realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday. I
> absolutely will not buy something like that.
>
> Thanks
> Mary
>
>
> From:"schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
>
>
> if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly reccomend
> NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
> natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
> during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
> someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
> them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
> months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
> subject.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> *
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/>
> * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
email to:
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Yahoo! Terms of
> Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > .
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should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and should
not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other
person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you.

Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
England.

Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
1DP.





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should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and should
not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other
person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
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Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
England.

Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
1DP.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 410 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: painted glass
there are both kinds...
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 7:40 AM, ~~Kelly~~ wrote:

>  
>  Aren't the panted fish the ones that are injected with a dye??  We
> were looking at fish one day and a couple came in and order 200 pink
> ones to go in fish bowls on the tables at their wedding reception.   I
> thought I heard the clerk telling them that they are injected with the
> color and that it will last any where from 2-12 months.
>  
> There was another kind of fish there, that she was explaining how they
> take a white fish and actually soak them in a colored dye... Like food
> coloring... but those fish were to big for what the couple was looking
> for so I couldn't hear anymore information.
>  
> Kelly
> -------Original Message-------
>  
> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 01/22/2004 03:21:43 AM
> To: 'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>  
> So let me get this right!
> They actually take the fish and PAINT it?
> How do they paint them?
> "Here, can you just sit still a minute, just got a dash of blue to add"
> So cruel
> Is it just these fish that get a spot of make up or do others get this
> atrcious treatment too?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:15 PM
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
>
>
> here are a couple of good ones..
> http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/paintedfish.htm
> http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/atrocities.shtml
> amalthea
>
> On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:06 PM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:
>
> > I would be very interested in any article! from a qualified author
> that 
> > says that many of these fish are killed during the process. Can you 
> > point me in the right direction?
> >  
> > Mike
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
> > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent:Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:46 AM
> > Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] painted glass
> >
> > No, I don't need articles.  I thought God made them that way.
>  Didn't 
> > realize it was actually paint until someone emailed me yesterday.  I 
> > absolutely will not buy something like that.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > From:"schuyler sloane" <mr_sky_531a@...>
> > Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Date:Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:00:04 -0000
> > To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject:[FreshwaterTropica! lFishAquarium] painted glass
> >
> >
> >
> &g t; if you are talking about the painted glass fish i highly
> reccomend
> > NOT getting these fish the treatment of the fish is cruel, there
> > natural slime coat is removed and then they colors are painted on
> > during this process a large quantity of fish are killed just so
> > someone who thinks they look nice and doesnt have experience will buy
> > them. and worst of all the paint usually falls off within a few
> > months. if you like i could find some articules forr you on this
> > subject.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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don't be afraid to scream...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 411 From: Jonathan Short Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
I've just read two very conflicting arguments as to
wheather "Painted Glass" are cruel or not.
One site suggested that the very thought of it is Barbaric, the
other suggested that it's no better than the fact we use live fish
for fishing, for feeding etc(in some circumstances).
I now see the situation like I see me and my partner.
He's a Vegetarian, where as I need as much meat as I can get, I've
never liked my greens.
And he asks me, "Would I eat meat if I had to kill it myself?"
I thought about this and decided I probably would'nt. I would'nt be
able to.
So fair enough, we use fish for feeding, and for baiting etc, But if
we wanted Glass fish and had to paint them ourselves, inject them,
dye them ourselves, Would we be able to do it?
If the answer is Yes, then fair enough, enjoy your work (but maybe
you should'nt be keeping fish lol) And if not then hat's off to you,
I suppose it's all about tollerance to others and what they like.
Though I must point out I'm strongly against people buying fish
because they look nice or because they're popular at the moment etc
So if you have it in you to pin a fish down and pump a load of crap
into it so it looks nice for a few months then do it.
If you'd rather enjoy seeing your fish live in an Environment and be
fascinated no matter what they look like by their behaviour then do
this too.
I'm voting for the latter.....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 412 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
that argument doesn't hold water. using fish as bait is, in some way, a
survival issue. it's to feed you. torturing an animal and then keeping
it alive just to entertain you is barbaric. i have no problem altering
creatures in a humane way. glowfish are altered on a genetic level and
it does not affect the fish's life span or quality. but sticking
needles in one because you don't like the color is cruel. as one who's
had a ridiculous amount of needles stuck into me, i can tell you, it's
unpleasant at best...
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 4:24 PM, Jonathan Short wrote:

> I've just read two very conflicting arguments as to
> wheather "Painted Glass" are cruel or not.
> One site suggested that the very thought of it is Barbaric, the
> other suggested that it's no better than the fact we use live fish
> for fishing, for feeding etc(in some circumstances).
> I now see the situation like I see me and my partner.
> He's a Vegetarian, where as I need as much meat as I can get, I've
> never liked my greens.
> And he asks me, "Would I eat meat if I had to kill it myself?"
> I thought about this and decided I probably would'nt. I would'nt be
> able to.
> So fair enough, we use fish for feeding, and for baiting etc, But if
> we wanted Glass fish and had to paint them ourselves, inject them,
> dye them ourselves, Would we be able to do it?
> If the answer is Yes, then fair enough, enjoy your work (but maybe
> you should'nt be keeping fish lol) And if not then hat's off to you,
> I suppose it's all about tollerance to others and what they like.
> Though I must point out I'm strongly against people buying fish
> because they look nice or because they're popular at the moment etc
> So if you have it in you to pin a fish down and pump a load of crap
> into it so it looks nice for a few months then do it.
> If you'd rather enjoy seeing your fish live in an Environment and be
> fascinated no matter what they look like by their behaviour then do
> this too.
> I'm voting for the latter.....
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 413 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Painted Glass - Barbaric? I myself could never take a live anything and shove a hook through it, to catch something bigger.   I guess I see this in the same manner I see docking tails and cropping ears on dogs.  Pups at 3 days of age have their tails docked, if they are a specific breed such at Rotts and Dobies.  In most cases, no anesthesia is used and the tails are chopped off with a pair of scissors.  I have been told that they can't feel the pain but they sure scream and squirm alot.  Disgusting.  I've always said if owners were required to watch how bloody an ear crop is or if we could bag up the parts and send them home with the owners, they'd never do it again.  So, in my mind, we are altering nature.

Mary

From: "Jonathan Short" <jonathan.short@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:24:53 -0000
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Painted Glass - Barbaric?


I've just read two very conflicting arguments as to
wheather "Painted Glass" are cruel or not.
One site suggested that the very thought of it is Barbaric, the
other suggested that it's no better than the fact we use live fish
for fishing, for feeding etc(in some circumstances).
I now see the situation like I see me and my partner.
He's a Vegetarian, where as I need as much meat as I can get, I've
never liked my greens.
And he asks me, "Would I eat meat if I had to kill it myself?"
I thought about this and decided I probably would'nt. I would'nt be
able to.
So fair enough, we use fish for feeding, and for baiting etc, But if
we wanted Glass fish and had to paint them ourselves, inject them,
dye them ourselves, Would we be able to do it?
If the answer is Yes, then fair enough, enjoy your work (but maybe
you should'nt be keeping fish lol) And if not then hat's off to you,
I suppose it's all about tollerance to others and what they like.
Though I must point out I'm strongly against people buying fish
because they look nice or because they're popular at the moment etc
So if you have it in you to pin a fish down and pump a load of crap
into it so it looks nice for a few months then do it.
If you'd rather enjoy seeing your fish live in an Environment and be
fascinated no matter what they look like by their behaviour then do
this too.
I'm voting for the latter.....




Yahoo! Groups Links
  • To visit your group on the web, go to:
  • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
  • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 414 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
i've actually been involved in the process of docking, as it is
required of some of the breeds of dogs we've bred and i managed. i've
also seen several human circumcisions, also done with no anesthesia and
the babies squirm and scream as well. i feel there's a difference
between altering nature to a breed standard and completely mutilating
an animal into becoming a "freak" as it were. there is no breed of
"painted glass fish." this is not something that is recognized by any
official group, however corgis for example are a recognized breed and
have a standard. most are born without the tail, but for those that
have it, they have it docked. humans have a standard and except in rare
cases, if one of us is born with an extra digit, it is lopped off as
well. very little in our "natural" lives is unaltered, but i think we
all have to draw our own lines.
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 7:20 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> I myself could never take a live anything and shove a hook through it,
> to catch something bigger.   I guess I see this in the same manner I
> see docking tails and cropping ears on dogs.  Pups at 3 days of age
> have their tails docked, if they are a specific breed such at Rotts
> and Dobies.  In most cases, no anesthesia is used and the tails are
> chopped off with a pair of scissors.  I have been told that they can't
> feel the pain but they sure scream and squirm alot.  Disgusting.  I've
> always said if owners were required to watch how bloody an ear crop is
> or if we could bag up the parts and send them home with the owners,
> they'd never do it again.  So, in my mind, we are altering nature.
>
> Mary
>
>
> From:"Jonathan Short" <jonathan.short@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:24:53 -0000
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Painted Glass - Barbaric?
>
>
>
>
> I've just read two very conflicting arguments as to
> wheather "Painted Glass" are cruel or not.
> One site suggested that the very thought of it is Barbaric, the
> other suggested that it's no better than the fact we use live fish
> for fishing, for feeding etc(in some circumstances).
> I now see the situation like I see me and my partner.
> He's a Vegetarian, where as I need as much meat as I can get, I've
> never liked my greens.
> And he asks me, "Would I eat meat if I had to kill it myself?"
> I thought about this and decided I probably would'nt. I would'nt be
> able to.
> So fair enough, we use fish for feeding, and for baiting etc, But if
> we wanted Glass fish and had to paint them ourselves, inject them,
> dye them ourselves, Would we be able to do it?
> If the answer is Yes, then fair enough, enjoy your work (but maybe
> you should'nt be keeping fish lol) And if not then hat's off to you,
> I suppose it's all about tollerance to others and what they like.
> Though I must point out I'm strongly against people buying fish
> because they look nice or because they're popular at the moment etc
> So if you have it in you to pin a fish down and pump a load of crap
> into it so it looks nice for a few months then do it.
> If you'd rather enjoy seeing your fish live in an Environment and be
> fascinated no matter what they look like by their behaviour then do
> this too.
> I'm voting for the latter.....
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> • • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> subject=Unsubscribe>
> • • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
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>
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> ADVERTISEMENT
> <image.tiff>
> <image.tiff>
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http://www.puppetterrors.com
don't be afraid to scream...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 415 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Painted Glass - Barbaric? Yes, but who decides breed standards.  I've been told that docking is done because the large breed dogs would clear coffee tables as they walked by, but if that was a legitimate reason, all dogs over 50 lbs. would have docked tails.  Not so for many breeds.  Cropping is done so that the dogs can't grab their opponents ears.  Illegal to fight dogs so why continue chopping their ears off.  I'll get back to fish talk now.

Mary

From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:39:48 -0500
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Painted Glass - Barbaric?


i've actually been involved in the process of docking, as it is  
required of some of the breeds of dogs we've bred and i managed. i've  
also seen several human circumcisions, also done with no anesthesia and  
the babies squirm and scream as well. i feel there's a difference  
between altering nature to a breed standard and completely mutilating  
an animal into becoming a "freak" as it were. there is no breed of  
"painted glass fish." this is not something that is recognized by any  
official group, however corgis for example are a recognized breed and  
have a standard. most are born without the tail, but for those that  
have it, they have it docked. humans have a standard and except in rare  
cases, if one of us is born with an extra digit, it is lopped off as  
well. very little in our "natural" lives is unaltered, but i think we  
all have to draw our own lines.
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 7:20 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> I myself could never take a live anything and shove a hook through it,  
> to catch something bigger.   I guess I see this in the same manner I  
> see docking tails and cropping ears on dogs.  Pups at 3 days of age  
> have their tails docked, if they are a specific breed such at Rotts  
> and Dobies.  In most cases, no anesthesia is used and the tails are  
> chopped off with a pair of scissors.  I have been told that they can't  
> feel the pain but they sure scream and squirm alot.  Disgusting.  I've  
> always said if owners were required to watch how bloody an ear crop is  
> or if we could bag up the parts and send them home with the owners,  
> they'd never do it again.  So, in my mind, we are altering nature.
>
> Mary
>
>
> From:"Jonathan Short" <jonathan.short@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:24:53 -0000
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Painted Glass - Barbaric?
>
>
>
>
> I've just read two very conflicting arguments as to
> wheather "Painted Glass" are cruel or not.
> One site suggested that the very thought of it is Barbaric, the
> other suggested that it's no better than the fact we use live fish
> for fishing, for feeding etc(in some circumstances).
> I now see the situation like I see me and my partner.
> He's a Vegetarian, where as I need as much meat as I can get, I've
> never liked my greens.
> And he asks me, "Would I eat meat if I had to kill it myself?"
> I thought about this and decided I probably would'nt. I would'nt be
> able to.
> So fair enough, we use fish for feeding, and for baiting etc, But if
> we wanted Glass fish and had to paint them ourselves, inject them,
> dye them ourselves, Would we be able to do it?
> If the answer is Yes, then fair enough, enjoy your work (but maybe
> you should'nt be keeping fish lol) And if not then hat's off to you,
> I suppose it's all about tollerance to others and what they like.
> Though I must point out I'm strongly against people buying fish
> because they look nice or because they're popular at the moment etc
> So if you have it in you to pin a fish down and pump a load of crap
> into it so it looks nice for a few months then do it.
> If you'd rather enjoy seeing your fish live in an Environment and be
> fascinated no matter what they look like by their behaviour then do
> this too.
> I'm voting for the latter.....
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>  €  To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  €  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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>  
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 416 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: More newbie questions
We are day 4 of cycling the tank. Bought some test kits today for Nitrite,
Ammonia and Ph. Tested the water so I could have some sort of idea when
they spike occurs. Nitrites and Ammonia both 0. Ph is 8.1 or so. Is this
high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel fish, etc.? How do you
lower it?

On to another tank. My little aquarium (2 gallons or so) has my betta in
it. I've been told to get a female of the same breed of betta, but then
I've been told he'll kill a female also. What's the case? Should I be
testing the water for him also? What about temperature. I put a little
fake plant in there today and the water felt cold, possibly 70 or so? Maybe
a little lower? Should I take the thermometer out of the other tank and see
how cold it is or do bettas not care?

Thanks for info.

Mary
Group: AquaticLife Message: 417 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: Painted Glass - Barbaric?
well, it's not just for fighting. the breed standards are decided by
various kennel clubs. there are shows for fish that are held the same
way, with bettas particularly. dogs that are docked have been
selectively bred to have either stunted or no tails. only "sports" in
the breed are docked. i.e. most of the puppies born to docked breeds
are born without the tail, only the odd ones are docked to match the
breed. with fish, the odd ones are usually outright destroyed. and
remember, if it weren't for breed standards and selective breeding,
many of the fish we enjoy watching in our tanks wouldn't exist.
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 8:24 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> Yes, but who decides breed standards.  I've been told that docking is
> done because the large breed dogs would clear coffee tables as they
> walked by, but if that was a legitimate reason, all dogs over 50 lbs.
> would have docked tails.  Not so for many breeds.  Cropping is done so
> that the dogs can't grab their opponents ears.  Illegal to fight dogs
> so why continue chopping their ears off.  I'll get back to fish talk
> now.
>
> Mary
>
>
> From:amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:39:48 -0500
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Painted Glass - Barbaric?
>
>
>
>
> i've actually been involved in the process of docking, as it is  
> required of some of the breeds of dogs we've bred and i managed. i've  
> also seen several human circumcisions, also done with no anesthesia
> and  
> the babies squirm and scream as well. i feel there's a difference  
> between altering nature to a breed standard and completely mutilating  
> an animal into becoming a "freak" as it were. there is no breed of  
> "painted glass fish." this is not something that is recognized by any  
> official group, however corgis for example are a recognized breed and  
> have a standard. most are born without the tail, but for those that  
> have it, they have it docked. humans have a standard and except in
> rare  
> cases, if one of us is born with an extra digit, it is lopped off as  
> well. very little in our "natural" lives is unaltered, but i think we  
> all have to draw our own lines.
> amalthea
> On Jan 22, 2004, at 7:20 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:
>
> > I myself could never take a live anything and shove a hook through
> it,  
> > to catch something bigger.   I guess I see this in the same manner I
>  
> > see docking tails and cropping ears on dogs.  Pups at 3 days of age  
> > have their tails docked, if they are a specific breed such at Rotts  
> > and Dobies.  In most cases, no anesthesia is used and the tails are  
> > chopped off with a pair of scissors.  I have been told that they
> can't  
> > feel the pain but they sure scream and squirm alot.  Disgusting.
>  I've  
> > always said if owners were required to watch how bloody an ear crop
> is  
> > or if we could bag up the parts and send them home with the owners,  
> > they'd never do it again.  So, in my mind, we are altering nature.
> >
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > From:"Jonathan Short" <jonathan.short@...>
> > Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:24:53 -0000
> > To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Painted Glass - Barbaric?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just read two very conflicting arguments as to
> > wheather "Painted Glass" are cruel or not.
> > One site suggested that the very thought of it is Barbaric, the
> > other suggested that it's no better than the fact we use live fish
> > for fishing, for feeding etc(in some circumstances).
> > I now see the situation like I see me and my partner.
> > He's a Vegetarian, where as I need as much meat as I can get, I've
> > never liked my greens.
> > And he asks me, "Would I eat meat if I had to kill it myself?"
> > I thought about this and decided I probably would'nt. I would'nt be
> > able to.
> > So fair enough, we use fish for feeding, and for baiting etc, But if
> > we wanted Glass fish and had to paint them ourselves, inject them,
> > dye them ourselves, Would we be able to do it?
> > If the answer is Yes, then fair enough, enjoy your work (but maybe
> > you should'nt be keeping fish lol) And if not then hat's off to you,
> > I suppose it's all about tollerance to others and what they like.
> > Though I must point out I'm strongly against people buying fish
> > because they look nice or because they're popular at the moment etc
> > So if you have it in you to pin a fish down and pump a load of crap
> > into it so it looks nice for a few months then do it.
> > If you'd rather enjoy seeing your fish live in an Environment and be
> > fascinated no matter what they look like by their behaviour then do
> > this too.
> > I'm voting for the latter.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >  €  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >  €  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> >  €   €  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  €  FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  
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> > subject=Unsubscribe>
> >  €   €  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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> >
> >
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> >  
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>
>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 418 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
your ph is high.

Usually most tropical fishes tolerate it between 6.5 -
7.

I was told that making water changes can bring down
the Ph.

Hope this helps...SuNnY !

--- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> We are day 4 of cycling the tank. Bought some test
> kits today for Nitrite,
> Ammonia and Ph. Tested the water so I could have
> some sort of idea when
> they spike occurs. Nitrites and Ammonia both 0. Ph
> is 8.1 or so. Is this
> high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel
> fish, etc.? How do you
> lower it?
>
> On to another tank. My little aquarium (2 gallons
> or so) has my betta in
> it. I've been told to get a female of the same
> breed of betta, but then
> I've been told he'll kill a female also. What's the
> case? Should I be
> testing the water for him also? What about
> temperature. I put a little
> fake plant in there today and the water felt cold,
> possibly 70 or so? Maybe
> a little lower? Should I take the thermometer out
> of the other tank and see
> how cold it is or do bettas not care?
>
> Thanks for info.
>
> Mary
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 419 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
I try to keep my pH between 6.5 and 7.5.. usually close to 7.0 if possible.  not sure about your fish, others will know.
 
Others also have ideas on pH down products.. I use sodium biphosphate.. (avail in pet store . lil' white canister few ounces or something.. bout same size as flake food container) nothing else has worked for me for whatever reason.  some ppl have mentioned it would cause excessive algae growth.  i have no algae xcept for back where filter water dumps back into tank which makes sense.
 
Dont want to put male betta with female. male will kill female over time is what i hear.  I think that bettas are hardy.  I use room temp water, nothing special.  I've never checked my water in my betta tank he been alive two years.  Theyz sorta like goldfish .. i think you can even throw them in outdoor ponds.. haven't tried though :) he'd get lost in my pond and i'd never find him.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 5:35 PM
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions

We are day 4 of cycling the tank.  Bought some test kits today for Nitrite,
Ammonia and Ph.  Tested the water so I could have some sort of idea when
they spike occurs.  Nitrites and Ammonia both 0.  Ph is 8.1 or so.  Is this
high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel fish, etc.?  How do you
lower it?

On to another tank.  My little aquarium (2 gallons or so) has my betta in
it.  I've been told to get a female of the same breed of betta, but then
I've been told he'll kill a female also.  What's the case?  Should I be
testing the water for him also?  What about temperature.  I put a little
fake plant in there today and the water felt cold, possibly 70 or so?  Maybe
a little lower?  Should I take the thermometer out of the other tank and see
how cold it is or do bettas not care?

Thanks for info.

Mary



Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife Message: 420 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
bettas should be kept in semi tropical temps, and cannot compete in
outdoor ponds. it's also more likely that the female will kill the male
as they are much more mobile. you can keep a betta at room temperature
and it will be ok, just do weekly water changes and make sure the
ammonia doesn't get too high.
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 8:56 PM, The Hamburgs wrote:

> I try to keep my pH between 6.5 and 7.5.. usually close to 7.0 if
> possible.  not sure about your fish, others will know.
>  
> Others also have ideas on pH down products.. I use sodium
> biphosphate.. (avail in pet store . lil' white canister few ounces or
> something.. bout same size as flake food container) nothing else has
> worked for me for whatever reason.  some ppl have mentioned it would
> cause excessive algae growth.  i have no algae xcept for back where
> filter water dumps back into tank which makes sense.
>  
> Dont want to put male betta with female. male will kill female over
> time is what i hear.  I think that bettas are hardy.  I use room temp
> water, nothing special.  I've never checked my water in my betta tank
> he been alive two years.  Theyz sorta like goldfish .. i think you can
> even throw them in outdoor ponds.. haven't tried though :) he'd get
> lost in my pond and i'd never find him.
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Ramsower, RVT
> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:Thursday, January 22, 2004 5:35 PM
> Subject:[FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions
>
> We are day 4 of cycling the tank.  Bought some test kits today for
> Nitrite,
> Ammonia and Ph.  Tested the water so I could have some sort of idea
> when
> they spike occurs.  Nitrites and Ammonia both 0.  Ph is 8.1 or so.  Is
> this
> high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel fish, etc.?  How do
> you
> lower it?
>
> On to another tank.  My little aquarium (2 gallons or so) has my betta
> in
> it.  I've been told to get a female of the same breed of betta, but
> then
> I've been told he'll kill a female also.  What's the case?  Should I be
> testing the water for him also?  What about temperature.  I put a
> little
> fake plant in there today and the water felt cold, possibly 70 or so? 
> Maybe
> a little lower?  Should I take the thermometer out of the other tank
> and see
> how cold it is or do bettas not care?
>
> Thanks for info.
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
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for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 421 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions But if the tank is new than wouldn't this just be the Ph of my tapwater?  Why would water changes help?

Mary

From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:48:48 -0800 (PST)
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions


your ph is high.

Usually most tropical fishes tolerate it between 6.5 -
7.

I was told that making water changes can bring down
the Ph.

Hope this helps...SuNnY !

--- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> We are day 4 of cycling the tank.  Bought some test
> kits today for Nitrite,
> Ammonia and Ph.  Tested the water so I could have
> some sort of idea when
> they spike occurs.  Nitrites and Ammonia both 0.  Ph
> is 8.1 or so.  Is this
> high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel
> fish, etc.?  How do you
> lower it?
>
> On to another tank.  My little aquarium (2 gallons
> or so) has my betta in
> it.  I've been told to get a female of the same
> breed of betta, but then
> I've been told he'll kill a female also.  What's the
> case?  Should I be
> testing the water for him also?  What about
> temperature.  I put a little
> fake plant in there today and the water felt cold,
> possibly 70 or so?  Maybe
> a little lower?  Should I take the thermometer out
> of the other tank and see
> how cold it is or do bettas not care?
>
> Thanks for info.
>
> Mary
>


__________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 422 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
you can try baking soda as well...
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 9:44 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> But if the tank is new than wouldn't this just be the Ph of my
> tapwater?  Why would water changes help?
>
> Mary
>
>
> From:sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:48:48 -0800 (PST)
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions
>
>
>
>
> your ph is high.
>
> Usually most tropical fishes tolerate it between 6.5 -
> 7.
>
> I was told that making water changes can bring down
> the Ph.
>
> Hope this helps...SuNnY !
>
> --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> > We are day 4 of cycling the tank.  Bought some test
> > kits today for Nitrite,
> > Ammonia and Ph.  Tested the water so I could have
> > some sort of idea when
> > they spike occurs.  Nitrites and Ammonia both 0.  Ph
> > is 8.1 or so.  Is this
> > high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel
> > fish, etc.?  How do you
> > lower it?
> >
> > On to another tank.  My little aquarium (2 gallons
> > or so) has my betta in
> > it.  I've been told to get a female of the same
> > breed of betta, but then
> > I've been told he'll kill a female also.  What's the
> > case?  Should I be
> > testing the water for him also?  What about
> > temperature.  I put a little
> > fake plant in there today and the water felt cold,
> > possibly 70 or so?  Maybe
> > a little lower?  Should I take the thermometer out
> > of the other tank and see
> > how cold it is or do bettas not care?
> >
> > Thanks for info.
> >
> > Mary
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
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> <image.tiff>
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for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
religion....
Group: AquaticLife Message: 423 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions Will do.  Any idea how much?  #Tbs. per gallon or something?  Or just start with one and see what Ph is tomorrow?  I just tested my tap water and it is exactly that Ph.

Mary

From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:43:34 -0500
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions


you can try baking soda as well...
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 9:44 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> But if the tank is new than wouldn't this just be the Ph of my  
> tapwater?  Why would water changes help?
>
> Mary
>
>
> From:sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:48:48 -0800 (PST)
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions
>
>
>
>
> your ph is high.
>
> Usually most tropical fishes tolerate it between 6.5 -
> 7.
>
> I was told that making water changes can bring down
> the Ph.
>
> Hope this helps...SuNnY !
>
> --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> > We are day 4 of cycling the tank.  Bought some test
> > kits today for Nitrite,
> > Ammonia and Ph.  Tested the water so I could have
> > some sort of idea when
> > they spike occurs.  Nitrites and Ammonia both 0.  Ph
> > is 8.1 or so.  Is this
> > high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel
> > fish, etc.?  How do you
> > lower it?
> >
> > On to another tank.  My little aquarium (2 gallons
> > or so) has my betta in
> > it.  I've been told to get a female of the same
> > breed of betta, but then
> > I've been told he'll kill a female also.  What's the
> > case?  Should I be
> > testing the water for him also?  What about
> > temperature.  I put a little
> > fake plant in there today and the water felt cold,
> > possibly 70 or so?  Maybe
> > a little lower?  Should I take the thermometer out
> > of the other tank and see
> > how cold it is or do bettas not care?
> >
> > Thanks for info.
> >
> > Mary
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
>
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>
>
>
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>
>  €  To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  €  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>  €   €  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> subject=Unsubscribe>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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> <image.tiff>
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religion....




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To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 424 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/22/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
sadly, i can't find the measurements you should use, but i did just
read an interesting bit on lowering ph. you can introduce driftwood
into the tank which lowers ph by leeching tannic acid into the water
and you can also blow co2 through the water which will lower it as
well...
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 10:20 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> Will do.  Any idea how much?  #Tbs. per gallon or something?  Or just
> start with one and see what Ph is tomorrow?  I just tested my tap
> water and it is exactly that Ph.
>
> Mary
>
>
> From:amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:43:34 -0500
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions
>
>
>
>
> you can try baking soda as well...
> amalthea
> On Jan 22, 2004, at 9:44 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:
>
> > But if the tank is new than wouldn't this just be the Ph of my  
> > tapwater?  Why would water changes help?
> >
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > From:sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
> > Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:48:48 -0800 (PST)
> > To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > your ph is high.
> >
> > Usually most tropical fishes tolerate it between 6.5 -
> > 7.
> >
> > I was told that making water changes can bring down
> > the Ph.
> >
> > Hope this helps...SuNnY !
> >
> > --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> > > We are day 4 of cycling the tank.  Bought some test
> > > kits today for Nitrite,
> > > Ammonia and Ph.  Tested the water so I could have
> > > some sort of idea when
> > > they spike occurs.  Nitrites and Ammonia both 0.  Ph
> > > is 8.1 or so.  Is this
> > > high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel
> > > fish, etc.?  How do you
> > > lower it?
> > >
> > > On to another tank.  My little aquarium (2 gallons
> > > or so) has my betta in
> > > it.  I've been told to get a female of the same
> > > breed of betta, but then
> > > I've been told he'll kill a female also.  What's the
> > > case?  Should I be
> > > testing the water for him also?  What about
> > > temperature.  I put a little
> > > fake plant in there today and the water felt cold,
> > > possibly 70 or so?  Maybe
> > > a little lower?  Should I take the thermometer out
> > > of the other tank and see
> > > how cold it is or do bettas not care?
> > >
> > > Thanks for info.
> > >
> > > Mary
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >  €  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >  €  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
> >  €   €  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  €  FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 425 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: (no subject)
Hi all,
I'm looking to go for a bigger tank in a few months (but keep my existing
one).
I was told when buying my fish to mix them wisely.
I wanted a fighter in my tank but the woman who served me advised against it
as I have Danio's which apparently nip the fins of more fancy fish. They do
have a tendency to be very playful and sometimes chase the Neon's around.
So, I'd love a list of fish what everyone keeps and how compatible you've
found them, as I'd like as much variety as possible :o)
Please
Thanks



Jonny Short
Churchill
Avalon Court
Nottingham Retainers
3rd Floor
<mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...




___________________________________________________________________________


This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for the
individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended
recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender. You
should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and should
not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other
person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you.

Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
England.

Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
1DP.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 426 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re:
well, in my main tank i have a large blue crayfish, 2 pictus cats,
about 6 bubble gum parrots, 4 kuhli loaches, and 2 plecos (a common and
a royal.) everyone is pretty happy and i haven't had any inter-species
fighting, though my parrots are territorial once they've paired off to
mate to they have set up their own little camps and small territories
in the nooks and crannies around the tank...
amalthea
amalthea
On Jan 23, 2004, at 3:27 AM, Short Jonathan wrote:

> Hi all,
> I'm looking to go for a bigger tank in a few months (but keep my
> existing
> one).
> I was told when buying my fish to mix them wisely.
> I wanted a fighter in my tank but the woman who served me advised
> against it
> as I have Danio's which apparently nip the fins of more fancy fish.
> They do
> have a tendency to be very playful and sometimes chase the Neon's
> around.
> So, I'd love a list of fish what everyone keeps and how compatible
> you've
> found them, as I'd like as much variety as possible :o)
> Please
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Jonny Short
> Churchill
> Avalon Court
> Nottingham Retainers
> 3rd Floor
> <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> ____
>
>
> This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only
> for the
> individual or entity to which it is addressed.  If you are not the
> intended
> recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender. 
> You
> should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and
> should
> not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any
> other
> person or entity.  The views expressed here are not necessarily those
> of
> Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank
> you.
>
> Churchill Insurance Group plc.  Company Registration Number - 2280426.
> England.
>
> Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent
> BR1
> 1DP.
>
>
>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 427 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re:
Hi SJ,

I have a 55gal community tank with the following
fishes which have been with me for the past 1 year.

Some more than 18 months.

2 ANGLES
2 RAMS
2 DANIOS
12 NEONS & CARDINALS
6 BLACK NEONS
10 RASBORAS
2 GOURAMIS
4 CORYS (2 ALBINO)
1 CLOWNLOACH
3 OTOS

Its a planted tank and i do about 30% water changes
every week to 10 days.

..SuNnY !
--- Short Jonathan <jonathan.short@...>
wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm looking to go for a bigger tank in a few months
> (but keep my existing
> one).
> I was told when buying my fish to mix them wisely.
> I wanted a fighter in my tank but the woman who
> served me advised against it
> as I have Danio's which apparently nip the fins of
> more fancy fish. They do
> have a tendency to be very playful and sometimes
> chase the Neon's around.
> So, I'd love a list of fish what everyone keeps and
> how compatible you've
> found them, as I'd like as much variety as possible
> :o)
> Please
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Jonny Short
> Churchill
> Avalon Court
> Nottingham Retainers
> 3rd Floor
> <mailto:Jonathan.short@...>
> Jonathan.short@...
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> This email and any attached to it are confidential
> and intended only for the
> individual or entity to which it is addressed. If
> you are not the intended
> recipient, please let us know by telephoning or
> emailing the sender. You
> should also delete the email and any attachment from
> your systems and should
> not copy the email or any attachment or disclose
> their content to any other
> person or entity. The views expressed here are not
> necessarily those of
> Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or
> subsidiaries. Thank you.
>
> Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration
> Number - 2280426.
> England.
>
> Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland
> Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
> 1DP.
>
>
>


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Group: AquaticLife Message: 428 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: More newbie questions
i thought baking soda INCREASEs the pH/? not lowers it.

adding tap.. could raise or lower your aquarium water depending on what the
tap is. if the tap is higher, it'd raise it., if the tap is lower it'd
lower it in your tank., but not much I wouldn't think.. if anything the tank
could take over and the tank wouldn't change at all.

----- Original Message -----
From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions


sadly, i can't find the measurements you should use, but i did just
read an interesting bit on lowering ph. you can introduce driftwood
into the tank which lowers ph by leeching tannic acid into the water
and you can also blow co2 through the water which will lower it as
well...
amalthea
On Jan 22, 2004, at 10:20 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

> Will do. Any idea how much? #Tbs. per gallon or something? Or just
> start with one and see what Ph is tomorrow? I just tested my tap
> water and it is exactly that Ph.
>
> Mary
>
>
> From:amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
> Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:43:34 -0500
> To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions
>
>
>
>
> you can try baking soda as well...
> amalthea
> On Jan 22, 2004, at 9:44 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:
>
> > But if the tank is new than wouldn't this just be the Ph of my
> > tapwater? Why would water changes help?
> >
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > From:sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
> > Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Date:Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:48:48 -0800 (PST)
> > To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More newbie questions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > your ph is high.
> >
> > Usually most tropical fishes tolerate it between 6.5 -
> > 7.
> >
> > I was told that making water changes can bring down
> > the Ph.
> >
> > Hope this helps...SuNnY !
> >
> > --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
> > > We are day 4 of cycling the tank. Bought some test
> > > kits today for Nitrite,
> > > Ammonia and Ph. Tested the water so I could have
> > > some sort of idea when
> > > they spike occurs. Nitrites and Ammonia both 0. Ph
> > > is 8.1 or so. Is this
> > > high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel
> > > fish, etc.? How do you
> > > lower it?
> > >
> > > On to another tank. My little aquarium (2 gallons
> > > or so) has my betta in
> > > it. I've been told to get a female of the same
> > > breed of betta, but then
> > > I've been told he'll kill a female also. What's the
> > > case? Should I be
> > > testing the water for him also? What about
> > > temperature. I put a little
> > > fake plant in there today and the water felt cold,
> > > possibly 70 or so? Maybe
> > > a little lower? Should I take the thermometer out
> > > of the other tank and see
> > > how cold it is or do bettas not care?
> > >
> > > Thanks for info.
> > >
> > > Mary
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
> religion....
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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religion....





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Group: AquaticLife Message: 429 From: Cyndy Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re:
Hi I'm a new guy. Just wanted to throw a question out there (one of
a thousand probably.) I am looking at panda cories. I know cories
need to be in groups of at least 3 to be happy...but can you mix and
match? Can 2 panda cories be mixed with 2 other cories an still be
okay?

~Cyndy
--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
<sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
> Hi SJ,
>
> I have a 55gal community tank with the following
> fishes which have been with me for the past 1 year.
>
> Some more than 18 months.
>
> 2 ANGLES
> 2 RAMS
> 2 DANIOS
> 12 NEONS & CARDINALS
> 6 BLACK NEONS
> 10 RASBORAS
> 2 GOURAMIS
> 4 CORYS (2 ALBINO)
> 1 CLOWNLOACH
> 3 OTOS
>
> Its a planted tank and i do about 30% water changes
> every week to 10 days.
>
> ..SuNnY !
> --- Short Jonathan <jonathan.short@c...>
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I'm looking to go for a bigger tank in a few months
> > (but keep my existing
> > one).
> > I was told when buying my fish to mix them wisely.
> > I wanted a fighter in my tank but the woman who
> > served me advised against it
> > as I have Danio's which apparently nip the fins of
> > more fancy fish. They do
> > have a tendency to be very playful and sometimes
> > chase the Neon's around.
> > So, I'd love a list of fish what everyone keeps and
> > how compatible you've
> > found them, as I'd like as much variety as possible
> > :o)
> > Please
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > Jonny Short
> > Churchill
> > Avalon Court
> > Nottingham Retainers
> > 3rd Floor
> > <mailto:Jonathan.short@c...>
> > Jonathan.short@c...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
_____
> >
> >
> >
> > This email and any attached to it are confidential
> > and intended only for the
> > individual or entity to which it is addressed. If
> > you are not the intended
> > recipient, please let us know by telephoning or
> > emailing the sender. You
> > should also delete the email and any attachment from
> > your systems and should
> > not copy the email or any attachment or disclose
> > their content to any other
> > person or entity. The views expressed here are not
> > necessarily those of
> > Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or
> > subsidiaries. Thank you.
> >
> > Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration
> > Number - 2280426.
> > England.
> >
> > Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland
> > Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
> > 1DP.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 430 From: Cyndy Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Another question..
I'm looking at Endler livebearers. How worried should I be about
breeding. I don't want a tank full, when I'm unprepared for them.
Is there a way to stop breeding, or is this something I don't really
have to worry about?

~Cyndy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 431 From: Anatoli Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: plants problems
hi everyone, im new here, had an aquarium for a while, i can manage
to keep my fish alive but i struggle w plants. i fertilize em with a
fertilizer enriched w iron and chek ieron levels regularly, i also
have plenty of lighting... but my plants quickly disintegrade and teh
stems and leaves become clear and mushy... and the healthy tops
tear off and float around and soon also begin to go bad :s i donno
if it neutrient diffeciency, a disease or CO2 difficiency.... somone
please HELP!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 432 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: Mary/Ph
The water that comes out of my tap has a high ph (we have a well), so
I regularly use a product called "Ph down"--just add 2 drops per
gallon. My ph never quite gets down to the optimal level, but the
tetras and bettas I have are doing well.

Sierra

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
<sunnyvks@y...> wrote:

> I was told that making water changes can bring down
> the Ph.
>
> Hope this helps...SuNnY !
>
> --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@s...> wrote:
> > We are day 4 of cycling the tank. Bought some test
> > kits today for Nitrite,
> > Ammonia and Ph. Tested the water so I could have
> > some sort of idea when
> > they spike occurs. Nitrites and Ammonia both 0. Ph
> > is 8.1 or so. Is this
> > high for community fish like barbs, tetras, angel
> > fish, etc.? How do you
> > lower it?
> >
> > On to another tank. My little aquarium (2 gallons
> > or so) has my betta in
> > it. I've been told to get a female of the same
> > breed of betta, but then
> > I've been told he'll kill a female also. What's the
> > case? Should I be
> > testing the water for him also? What about
> > temperature. I put a little
> > fake plant in there today and the water felt cold,
> > possibly 70 or so? Maybe
> > a little lower? Should I take the thermometer out
> > of the other tank and see
> > how cold it is or do bettas not care?
> >
> > Thanks for info.
> >
> > Mary
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
Group: AquaticLife Message: 433 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Jonny
--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Short Jonathan
<jonathan.short@c...> wrote:

> So, I'd love a list of fish what everyone keeps and how compatible
you've
> found them, as I'd like as much variety as possible :o)

I started with three zebra danios a year ago, and still have two of
them. They've been well-behaved toward a wide variety of fish that
have come and gone over the past year. I have a very happy community
right now of:

2 danios
1 female betta
3 platys
3 neon tetras
1 ocylincus
1 fantail guppy
2 glo-lite tetras
2 babies (platys?)

The female bettas are my absolute favorite. They are really
interesting to watch.

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 434 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: baking soda
--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "The Hamburgs"
<thehamburgs@h...> wrote:
> i thought baking soda INCREASEs the pH/? not lowers it.

That sounds logical when you consider that people use it as an
antacid. Lowering the Ph in an aquarium means to add acidity to the
water, not make it more alkaline...

I'd stick with the pet store products.

Sierra
Group: AquaticLife Message: 435 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
i think substrate also matters, What kind of substrate
are you using ??

--- Anatoli <coolhottiee_2000@...> wrote:
> hi everyone, im new here, had an aquarium for a
> while, i can manage
> to keep my fish alive but i struggle w plants. i
> fertilize em with a
> fertilizer enriched w iron and chek ieron levels
> regularly, i also
> have plenty of lighting... but my plants quickly
> disintegrade and teh
> stems and leaves become clear and mushy... and the
> healthy tops
> tear off and float around and soon also begin to go
> bad :s i donno
> if it neutrient diffeciency, a disease or CO2
> difficiency.... somone
> please HELP!!!!!
>
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
Group: AquaticLife Message: 436 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re:
yes they are very peaceful..!

--- Cyndy <cynthiamckee@...> wrote:
> Hi I'm a new guy. Just wanted to throw a question
> out there (one of
> a thousand probably.) I am looking at panda cories.
> I know cories
> need to be in groups of at least 3 to be happy...but
> can you mix and
> match? Can 2 panda cories be mixed with 2 other
> cories an still be
> okay?
>
> ~Cyndy
> --- In
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
> sunil kamath
> <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
> > Hi SJ,
> >
> > I have a 55gal community tank with the following
> > fishes which have been with me for the past 1
> year.
> >
> > Some more than 18 months.
> >
> > 2 ANGLES
> > 2 RAMS
> > 2 DANIOS
> > 12 NEONS & CARDINALS
> > 6 BLACK NEONS
> > 10 RASBORAS
> > 2 GOURAMIS
> > 4 CORYS (2 ALBINO)
> > 1 CLOWNLOACH
> > 3 OTOS
> >
> > Its a planted tank and i do about 30% water
> changes
> > every week to 10 days.
> >
> > ..SuNnY !
> > --- Short Jonathan <jonathan.short@c...>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > I'm looking to go for a bigger tank in a few
> months
> > > (but keep my existing
> > > one).
> > > I was told when buying my fish to mix them
> wisely.
> > > I wanted a fighter in my tank but the woman who
> > > served me advised against it
> > > as I have Danio's which apparently nip the fins
> of
> > > more fancy fish. They do
> > > have a tendency to be very playful and sometimes
> > > chase the Neon's around.
> > > So, I'd love a list of fish what everyone keeps
> and
> > > how compatible you've
> > > found them, as I'd like as much variety as
> possible
> > > :o)
> > > Please
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jonny Short
> > > Churchill
> > > Avalon Court
> > > Nottingham Retainers
> > > 3rd Floor
> > > <mailto:Jonathan.short@c...>
> > > Jonathan.short@c...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> _____
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This email and any attached to it are
> confidential
> > > and intended only for the
> > > individual or entity to which it is addressed.
> If
> > > you are not the intended
> > > recipient, please let us know by telephoning or
> > > emailing the sender. You
> > > should also delete the email and any attachment
> from
> > > your systems and should
> > > not copy the email or any attachment or disclose
> > > their content to any other
> > > person or entity. The views expressed here are
> not
> > > necessarily those of
> > > Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates
> or
> > > subsidiaries. Thank you.
> > >
> > > Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company
> Registration
> > > Number - 2280426.
> > > England.
> > >
> > > Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland
> > > Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
> > > 1DP.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 437 From: Anatoli Date: 1/23/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
i used gravel before and now i dont ahve any substrate at all... but
eve plants that dont require substrate and can just float freely go
tranparent and mushy :S:S:S

its annyoing i wanted real lants but they dont live!

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
<sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
> i think substrate also matters, What kind of substrate
> are you using ??
>
> --- Anatoli <coolhottiee_2000@y...> wrote:
> > hi everyone, im new here, had an aquarium for a
> > while, i can manage
> > to keep my fish alive but i struggle w plants. i
> > fertilize em with a
> > fertilizer enriched w iron and chek ieron levels
> > regularly, i also
> > have plenty of lighting... but my plants quickly
> > disintegrade and teh
> > stems and leaves become clear and mushy... and the
> > healthy tops
> > tear off and float around and soon also begin to go
> > bad :s i donno
> > if it neutrient diffeciency, a disease or CO2
> > difficiency.... somone
> > please HELP!!!!!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 438 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/24/2004
Subject: A new member
Hi Our names are Ben and Carol,
 
We are just getting our 75 gallon aquarium set up. We started with a 20 gallon. And we plan on raising other fish in that one but not sure just what kind or water type. Right now the big one has fresh water. I have had a 50 gallon aquarium, but had to sell due to moving. I sure did miss it. Then Now we don't know what to do with all the room in the 75 gallon tank. lol Right now we have a pleco, sword tails and a tetra.  
 
Ben and Carol  
Group: AquaticLife Message: 439 From: Jen Clower-Brown Date: 1/24/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
I'm having the same issues.  Great lighting, plenty of water circulation, good fertilizer...plants go clear and mushy on me rather quickly.  The interesting thing is that I'm actually seeing NEW growth on some of the plants I thought were dead (the ones that had broken off and floated to the top)!  Even my duckweed seems to be getting longer roots even though my other plants don't look so good.
 
If you get any good information, pass it my way.

Anatoli <coolhottiee_2000@...> wrote:
hi everyone, im new here, had an aquarium for a while, i can manage
to keep my fish alive but i struggle w plants. i fertilize em with a
fertilizer enriched w iron and chek ieron levels regularly, i also
have plenty of lighting... but my plants quickly disintegrade and teh
stems and leaves become clear and mushy... and the healthy tops
tear off and float around and soon also begin to go bad :s i donno
if it neutrient diffeciency, a disease or CO2 difficiency.... somone
please HELP!!!!!





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Group: AquaticLife Message: 440 From: Anatoli Date: 1/24/2004
Subject: Re: plants problems
i wen to the petstore today and talked to teh fish dept head or w/e,
he said its lack of Iron, but i add iron enriched fertilizer.... so
idont get it :s i still am not sure its the cause, anyone else in
this group has any suggestions???? this place seems quiet



--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Jen Clower-
Brown <skyfire_jcb@y...> wrote:
> I'm having the same issues. Great lighting, plenty of water
circulation, good fertilizer...plants go clear and mushy on me rather
quickly. The interesting thing is that I'm actually seeing NEW
growth on some of the plants I thought were dead (the ones that had
broken off and floated to the top)! Even my duckweed seems to be
getting longer roots even though my other plants don't look so good.
>
> If you get any good information, pass it my way.
>
> Anatoli <coolhottiee_2000@y...> wrote:
> hi everyone, im new here, had an aquarium for a while, i can manage
> to keep my fish alive but i struggle w plants. i fertilize em with
a
> fertilizer enriched w iron and chek ieron levels regularly, i also
> have plenty of lighting... but my plants quickly disintegrade and
teh
> stems and leaves become clear and mushy... and the healthy tops
> tear off and float around and soon also begin to go bad :s i donno
> if it neutrient diffeciency, a disease or CO2 difficiency....
somone
> please HELP!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 441 From: Tom Reagin Date: 1/24/2004
Subject: Re: Digest Number 84 Another question from Cindy
Cindy

I keep Endler's. Where are you located? I am in
Lilburn Georgia (metropolitan Atlanta.) They are
prolific breeders and will fill a tank rapidly.

If you keep only males, you can prevent breeding.

;-)

Yours

TomR

=====
Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
104 Church Street
Decatur, GA 30030

Voice (404)378-3694
Fax (404)373-0741

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 442 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
Subject: new member :)
Attachments :
     Hi, my name is Erin. I just started my first freshwater tropical aquarium. (honestly, my first aquarium ever.) I've got a 15 gallon tank, and currently I've got one plecostamus and three black mollies. I'm going to get three Glofish in a few weeks, but didn't want to put too many fish in at once. I did lots of reading up on starting my tank before ever buying the fish, and all that I've read said that you should start slowly, so that is what I'm doing.
     
    My question is this ... we've had the fish for two days now, and one of the black mollies has a white substance around it's mouth. This didn't show up until maybe late last night or early this morning ... the fish were fine when I fed them last night before going to bed, and I noticed it this morning when I went to feed them. I've heard a lot about Ick ... is that white stuff on my Mollie ick? Or is it something else? If it's Ick, I'd like to know ASAP so that we can get some ick medicine today when we go run some errands.
     
     Erin
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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 443 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
    Subject: Re: new member :)
    that white stuff sounds like a mouth fungus, and you'll need a
    fungicide to kill it, however might i suggest not putting goldfish in
    that tank. goldfish carry a TREMENDOUS bio load. they have no proper
    stomach and so food literally goes in one end and out the other,
    mucking up a tank very quickly. since you only have a 15 gallon tank
    and you already have a pleco in there, the filter won't be able to
    properly keep up with all those fish. perhaps guppies would be
    something for you to look into as they are colorful and not to tough on
    a filter...
    as for the fungicide, you can find that in most pet stores, get that
    today and the fish should be alright...
    amalthea
    On Jan 25, 2004, at 11:44 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

    >  Hi, my name is Erin. I just started my first freshwater tropical
    > aquarium. (honestly, my first aquarium ever.) I've got a 15 gallon
    > tank, and currently I've got one plecostamus and three black mollies.
    > I'm going to get three Glofish in a few weeks, but didn't want to put
    > too many fish in at once. I did lots of reading up on starting my tank
    > before ever buying the fish, and all that I've read said that you
    > should start slowly, so that is what I'm doing.
    >  
    > My question is this ... we've had the fish for two days now, and one
    > of the black mollies has a white substance around it's mouth. This
    > didn't show up until maybe late last night or early this morning ...
    > the fish were fine when I fed them last night before going to bed, and
    > I noticed it this morning when I went to feed them. I've heard a lot
    > about Ick ... is that white stuff on my Mollie ick? Or is it something
    > else? If it's Ick, I'd like to know ASAP so that we can get some ick
    > medicine today when we go run some errands.
    >  
    >  Erin
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    >  
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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 444 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
    Subject: GLOFISH link
    Attachments :
       I'm noticing a lot of rumors about the Glofish. So I figured that to resolve some of the rumors, I'd post the link where you can find out more about them. There is ONE store local to me that is selling them, at double their "suggested retail" price, but I personally am excited about getting mine in a couple of weeks.
       
       
      I personally don't see what the big deal is ... other animals have been selectively bred for centuries, so why are these so controversial? Especially since their original use was to detect water pollution. The fish are not harmed to get their "glow" ... they aren't "painted" or anything like that. And the fish don't "glow in the dark" either ... they will appear to glow under a UV light (black light) but they aren't radioactive. The glow effect is produced because they absorb regular light during the day, similar to some cave lichens that appear to glow.
       
       Erin
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      Group: AquaticLife Message: 445 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
      Subject: Re: GLOFISH link
      my personal opinion is that people will protest just about anything.
      there really isn't anything wrong with these fish, people just like to
      complain.
      amalthea
      On Jan 25, 2004, at 12:06 PM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

      >  I'm noticing a lot of rumors about the Glofish. So I figured that to
      > resolve some of the rumors, I'd post the link where you can find out
      > more about them. There is ONE store local to me that is selling them,
      > at double their "suggested retail" price, but I personally am excited
      > about getting mine in a couple of weeks.
      >  
      > http://www.glofish.com
      >  
      > I personally don't see what the big deal is ... other animals have
      > been selectively bred for centuries, so why are these so
      > controversial? Especially since their original use was to detect water
      > pollution. The fish are not harmed to get their "glow" ... they aren't
      > "painted" or anything like that. And the fish don't "glow in the dark"
      > either ... they will appear to glow under a UV light (black light) but
      > they aren't radioactive. The glow effect is produced because they
      > absorb regular light during the day, similar to some cave lichens that
      > appear to glow.
      >  
      >  Erin
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      religion....
      Group: AquaticLife Message: 446 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
      Subject: Re: new member :)
      Attachments :
        *blinks* I never intended to put GOLDFISH in the tank. I personally don't like them. Hubby wants some of the ones that look like they have lumps on their heads, but I think they're ... um... ugly. Heh heh I think either I had a typo or you misread my post .... I'm planning on getting three GLO FISH. :) 
         
        Thanks for the info on the fungicide, I'll get some today. :)
         Erin
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 447 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
        Subject: Re: new member :)
        ah, well, those will do just fine, make sure you clear out the fungus
        first though!
        amalthea
        On Jan 25, 2004, at 2:29 PM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

        > *blinks* I never intended to put GOLDFISH in the tank. I personally
        > don't like them. Hubby wants some of the ones that look like they have
        > lumps on their heads, but I think they're ... um... ugly. Heh heh I
        > think either I had a typo or you misread my post .... I'm planning on
        > getting three GLO FISH. :) 
        >  
        > Thanks for the info on the fungicide, I'll get some today. :)
        >  Erin
        > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
        > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
        > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
        >  
        > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
        > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 448 From: corundum_dogs Date: 1/25/2004
        Subject: new to list and question
        Hi,
        I am new to the list and have a question about my clown loaches.
        One of the loaches seems very healthy and at a good weight while the
        other one seems very thin and gaunt. They both get fed mostly
        sinking tablets (Tetra min tabs)with a bit of frozen brine shrimp or
        bloodworms. They also get snails on occasion from my other tank
        which they both seem to like very much. When I feed them I break
        the tablet into two peices so that they will not fight over it.
        When watching them it seems like the one fat loach will take food
        away from the skinny loach. My water chemistries are fine and was
        wondering if the one skinny loach is just not getting enough to eat
        or if it is possible that he has a disease. Should I be feeding
        them something different?

        Thanks for the suggestions!
        Kate
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 449 From: daniel_roachus Date: 1/25/2004
        Subject: Re: painted glass
        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Short Jonathan
        <jonathan.short@c...> wrote:
        > Oh my god that's absolutely awful.
        > Is that just in the US I've never heard of that in the UK, I'm sure
        there'd
        > be an animal rights law against it.
        > I can't beleive they actually do stuff like that.
        > It's quite saddening isn't it? :o(
        >

        yep - mny LFS in london had them, They told me the color faded - I
        didn't think a reputable shop would sell them..
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 450 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
        Subject: Re: painted glass
        sadly, most shops in the us sell them. all the major chains and even
        the LFS's.
        amalthea
        On Jan 25, 2004, at 5:03 PM, daniel_roachus wrote:

        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Short Jonathan
        > <jonathan.short@c...> wrote:
        > > Oh my god that's absolutely awful.
        > > Is that just in the US I've never heard of that in the UK, I'm sure
        > there'd
        > > be an animal rights law against it.
        > > I can't beleive they actually do stuff like that.
        > > It's quite saddening isn't it? :o(
        > >
        >
        > yep - mny LFS in london had them, They told me the color faded - I
        > didn't think a reputable shop would sell them..
        >
        >
        >
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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 451 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2004
        Subject: Re: new to list and question
        Hi,
        i'm not an expert at anything in the fish-keeping realm, but if the fish is as distressed-appearing as you indicate the problem could definately be internal. If it is a problem of a fish greedily taking anothers food, and your tank could accomodate it, a separator (lexan? ) could be introduced at feeding time.
        Joe Pascavage
        Group: AquaticLife Message: 452 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
        Subject: fungus on black mollie's lips
        Attachments :
          Okay, so just to be sure ... what sort of fungicide should I be looking for? Is there a specific kind? Or just a general fungicide?
           
           Erin
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 453 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/25/2004
          Subject: fungal stuff revisited
          Attachments :
             Agh. My black mollie that had the white stuff on his mouth DIED before my husband even got home from work. I've only got one car, so I couldn't very well drive the 35 minutes to the pet store to get anti fungal treatment. The store where I got the fish has a return policy, and I have the receipt and everything, but my husband isn't willing to make the half hour drive for a $2 fish.
             
            So ... now my tank is one fish less, and I'm ticked that two days after I got the fish one has died. The tank was clean, I had the water tested before I ever introduced a SINGLE fish. At least the pleco and the other two mollies are acting fine, and I did a 20% water change today because apparently our pleco is too small to eat more than half an algae tablet a day.
             
            I'm going to get some stress coat and ick stuff, and look to see if the store up the street has any anti fungal treatments. Hopefully none of the other fish were infected. It sounds crazy, but I'm actually hoping that the one that died was sick BEFORE I brought the fish home ... there was no other reason that I could see that would kill a fish that quickly ... as soon as I noticed symptoms, it was already too late.
             
            So ... let's take stock ... the fish was lethargic and spent most of the day in the hollow log, and right before he died (I don't know why I call them all he, I can't really tell one from another) he got to where he pointed his tailfin straight down and his nose straight up, and didn't really move much that the water currents weren't moving him. Then he sank to the bottom and gasped his last. There is really not a whole lot of clear information that sounds similar to what I just went through with my fish ... there were NO pictures I could find of this fungus, just something vague about it could be made worse by having a bully fish. (the largest of the mollies does seem to nip at the other fish quite a bit.) I feel like I should have noticed something earlier, but the fish were all acting normally when I went to bed at about 1:30 this morning. So, that's something for me to learn from in future ... now I know that I'm going to have to respond quicker at the first sign of something being off. Great.
             
             Erin
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 454 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
            Subject: Re: fungal stuff revisited
            fungal infections can come really quickly and can devastate a tank. the
            best thing to do is to have all medications you *might* end up needing
            ready in advance. get them when you set up the tank. always have
            something called "melafix" at the ready. it's a reasonably good cure
            all. you should also have some other remedies (anti fungals, anti ick,
            etc.) at the ready. make sure you treat the remaining fish in your tank
            even though the infected one died. fungus can still have spread through
            the tank. before you treat, remove any snails you have as they often
            react poorly to anti fungals, and remove the charcoal in the filter as
            this will effect the power of the medication...
            amalthea
            On Jan 25, 2004, at 6:33 PM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

            >  Agh. My black mollie that had the white stuff on his mouth DIED
            > before my husband even got home from work. I've only got one car, so I
            > couldn't very well drive the 35 minutes to the pet store to get anti
            > fungal treatment. The store where I got the fish has a return policy,
            > and I have the receipt and everything, but my husband isn't willing to
            > make the half hour drive for a $2 fish.
            >  
            > So ... now my tank is one fish less, and I'm ticked that two days
            > after I got the fish one has died. The tank was clean, I had the water
            > tested before I ever introduced a SINGLE fish. At least the pleco and
            > the other two mollies are acting fine, and I did a 20% water change
            > today because apparently our pleco is too small to eat more than half
            > an algae tablet a day.
            >  
            > I'm going to get some stress coat and ick stuff, and look to see if
            > the store up the street has any anti fungal treatments. Hopefully none
            > of the other fish were infected. It sounds crazy, but I'm actually
            > hoping that the one that died was sick BEFORE I brought the fish home
            > ... there was no other reason that I could see that would kill a fish
            > that quickly ... as soon as I noticed symptoms, it was already too
            > late.
            >  
            > So ... let's take stock ... the fish was lethargic and spent most of
            > the day in the hollow log, and right before he died (I don't know why
            > I call them all he, I can't really tell one from another) he got to
            > where he pointed his tailfin straight down and his nose straight up,
            > and didn't really move much that the water currents weren't moving
            > him. Then he sank to the bottom and gasped his last. There is really
            > not a whole lot of clear information that sounds similar to what I
            > just went through with my fish ... there were NO pictures I could find
            > of this fungus, just something vague about it could be made worse by
            > having a bully fish. (the largest of the mollies does seem to nip at
            > the other fish quite a bit.) I feel like I should have noticed
            > something earlier, but the fish were all acting normally when I went
            > to bed at about 1:30 this morning. So, that's something for me to
            > learn from in future ... now I know that I'm going to have to respond
            > quicker at the first sign of somet! hing being off. Great.
            >  
            >  Erin
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 455 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/25/2004
            Subject: Snails-love em or hate em?
            I have a population of little brown snails in my tank, thanks to a
            live plant purchase. I've heard snails are not desirable...is that
            for aesthetic reasons or others?

            Sierra
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 456 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2004
            Subject: Re: Snails-love em or hate em?
            H'lo,
               If they're pond snails, they can devour your plants, and multiply not quite like wildfire. They also (in my experience, and the knowledge of pro's who've written on the subject),  carry undesirable organism's/parasites that can harm fish. Two major/general (700 or more pages) fish-care books (Baensch's Atlas, and Dr.Axelrods , etc)I believe (I'm sure of Baensch's) mention the problem, and one of the only ways of at least trying to eliminate the problem personally, is to seek plants that have'nt been raised in pond-farms. Controlled-conditions like hydroponics can serve as a springboard to determine if there's a glitch in the life-cycle-loop..
                                                 Joe Pascavage
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:31 PM
            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Snails-love em or hate em?

            I have a population of little brown snails in my tank, thanks to a
            live plant purchase. I've heard snails are not desirable...is that
            for aesthetic reasons or others?

            Sierra




            Yahoo! Groups Links

            Group: AquaticLife Message: 457 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/25/2004
            Subject: Re: plants problems
            Check this out.

            http://www.plantgeek.net//forum/

            Will help you with ur problem...SuNnY !


            --- Anatoli <coolhottiee_2000@...> wrote:
            > i wen to the petstore today and talked to teh fish
            > dept head or w/e,
            > he said its lack of Iron, but i add iron enriched
            > fertilizer.... so
            > idont get it :s i still am not sure its the cause,
            > anyone else in
            > this group has any suggestions???? this place seems
            > quiet
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In
            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Jen
            > Clower-
            > Brown <skyfire_jcb@y...> wrote:
            > > I'm having the same issues. Great lighting,
            > plenty of water
            > circulation, good fertilizer...plants go clear and
            > mushy on me rather
            > quickly. The interesting thing is that I'm actually
            > seeing NEW
            > growth on some of the plants I thought were dead
            > (the ones that had
            > broken off and floated to the top)! Even my
            > duckweed seems to be
            > getting longer roots even though my other plants
            > don't look so good.
            > >
            > > If you get any good information, pass it my way.
            > >
            > > Anatoli <coolhottiee_2000@y...> wrote:
            > > hi everyone, im new here, had an aquarium for a
            > while, i can manage
            > > to keep my fish alive but i struggle w plants. i
            > fertilize em with
            > a
            > > fertilizer enriched w iron and chek ieron levels
            > regularly, i also
            > > have plenty of lighting... but my plants quickly
            > disintegrade and
            > teh
            > > stems and leaves become clear and mushy... and the
            > healthy tops
            > > tear off and float around and soon also begin to
            > go bad :s i donno
            > > if it neutrient diffeciency, a disease or CO2
            > difficiency....
            > somone
            > > please HELP!!!!!
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > >
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > >
            >
            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
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            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 458 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/25/2004
            Subject: Re: new member :)
            Check these sights out..

            http://freshaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fishdoc.co.uk%2Fdisease%2Fclinicalsigns.htm


            http://www.bluebin.com/disease.html

            They have a wide discription of various types of
            diseases..

            Hope this helps....SuNnY !

            --- Erin Vankouwenberg <celticmommy@...>
            wrote:
            > Hi, my name is Erin. I just started my first
            > freshwater tropical aquarium.
            > (honestly, my first aquarium ever.) I've got a 15
            > gallon tank, and currently
            > I've got one plecostamus and three black mollies.
            > I'm going to get three
            > Glofish in a few weeks, but didn't want to put too
            > many fish in at once. I
            > did lots of reading up on starting my tank before
            > ever buying the fish, and
            > all that I've read said that you should start
            > slowly, so that is what I'm
            > doing.
            >
            > My question is this ... we've had the fish for two
            > days now, and one of the
            > black mollies has a white substance around it's
            > mouth. This didn't show up
            > until maybe late last night or early this morning
            > ... the fish were fine
            > when I fed them last night before going to bed, and
            > I noticed it this
            > morning when I went to feed them. I've heard a lot
            > about Ick ... is that
            > white stuff on my Mollie ick? Or is it something
            > else? If it's Ick, I'd like
            > to know ASAP so that we can get some ick medicine
            > today when we go run some
            > errands.
            >
            > Erin
            > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
            > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
            > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
            >
            > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
            > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
            > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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            > http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 459 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/25/2004
            Subject: Re: new member :)
            Attachments :
               
              I personally would take the pleco back to the fish store if it's a common pleco.  the common pleco has ability to get to two feet long or more.  (more than likely much bigger than your tank even)  You rarely see them that large in the stores.. I saw one in person at a store.. they had thrown in with a bunch of feeder fish.  the thing was huge!  too big for a small 15 gal. tank.  It may not get that large if you did keep him, but it's sorta mean to stunt his growth in my opinion. 
               
              They have many other pleco types that stay about 2" in length and get no larger.. they have the ability to keep even a 55 gal tank or larger clean all with that lil' itty bity 2" worth of a chowhound :)  BUT you have to really check them out.. many don't even eat algae when they're an adult.  Most are vegetarians and love things like zuchinni and broccoli.  I have a bristlenose pleco.. they're great.
               
              Also, a general rule of thumb for beginners.. 1" of adult fish per 1 gallon of water.  15 gal.. that means 15" total of fish.  if all your fish get about 3".. that'd mean that 5 fish would be recommended but no more for a 15 gal tank.
               
              BEFORE YOU ADD MOE FISH:  I'd suggest reading up on "aquarium cycling" .. (the first month or so of the tank building it's ecosystem) go to google and type in aquarium cycling and read a bit.  I'd also get some test kits if you're wanting after you read up about cycling.  If you add fish during this cycling time., it is possible they will die.  It is also possible, they'll survive.  The fish you have in there now are hardy.. yes., but they're also adjusting to the changes in the tank little by little and will probably survive the cycling.  I'd wait to add more fish until your nitrites and ammonia are back down.  It can take a couple weeks to a month or so until this happens.  Fish store can do tests on your water, or better yet you can get some test kit if you want.  :)
               
              Happy Fish Keepin' :)  Also if interested, i have a web site i've started .. sorta wrapped up everything I've learned in the past six months to a year.  Nothing about diseases though.. I've been fortunate not to have any problems I guess. :)  But talks about general things I've learned.. different filters, cycling, maintenance, etc.
               
              - Shawn
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:44 AM
              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new member :)

               Hi, my name is Erin. I just started my first freshwater tropical aquarium. (honestly, my first aquarium ever.) I've got a 15 gallon tank, and currently I've got one plecostamus and three black mollies. I'm going to get three Glofish in a few weeks, but didn't want to put too many fish in at once. I did lots of reading up on starting my tank before ever buying the fish, and all that I've read said that you should start slowly, so that is what I'm doing.
               
              My question is this ... we've had the fish for two days now, and one of the black mollies has a white substance around it's mouth. This didn't show up until maybe late last night or early this morning .. the fish were fine when I fed them last night before going to bed, and I noticed it this morning when I went to feed them. I've heard a lot about Ick ... is that white stuff on my Mollie ick? Or is it something else? If it's Ick, I'd like to know ASAP so that we can get some ick medicine today when we go run some errands.
               
               Erin
              Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
              MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 460 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Re: plants problems
              H'lo,
              Had the same problem, but was never successful with
              anything but Hygrophilia Gigantica, (to some extent, as my aquarium
              was aging and must be re-done), Hygrophilia, Java moss and fern. I
              was never able to devote enough time and resources into plant
              growing, so I ascribe those as the cause. The Hygrophilia, Java Moss
              and Java Fern were tolerant of my meager devotion to soft plant-life
              for fish as opposed to the harsh/hard surfaces of plastic plants. The
              Hygrophilia took about two years to grow so profusely that trimming
              was necessary weekly, or so. The J. Fern was less particular in my
              tanks, and the J. Moss liked being draped on a hang-on cave next to
              two filter-outflows. One a hang-on, the other an UGF outflow. The
              fern flourished in a 30 gal. tank with the undergravel filter, while
              nothing else would grow there, except a few banana plants I kept for
              a while 'till they died. I learned you can expect so-called banana
              plants to die eventually. The Java fern did'nt grow well in my 75
              gal. with a trickle filter, (and two cannister filters, one hang-on
              the other, inside the cabinet) and while I don't know why, I think it
              likes clear outflow/current, and while I have circulation in the 75,
              it is'nt close to what was available in the 30 . In the 75 gal, I
              had a product by Tetra, which looked like garden loam, which I mixed
              with water to make mud, rolled into 3/4 inch balls, and baked 'till
              hard, according to directions. That supplied some nutrients, along
              with a tab from Tetra, which I broke into pieces, according to
              directions, and applied next to roots to directions. The Hygro grew
              wonderfully for years (around two, I believe)after which, the rapid
              growth slowed, 'till I had to re-establish with new growth. The new
              growth usually took a year or two to begin growing rapidly , then
              another two years or so, and that's about now, where I should either
              tear the tank apart, or buy a new setup. If lack of iron was to
              blame for the experience of transluscent stems and leaves coincident
              with their disappearance, so be it, but I never added iron to grow
              the Hygro's and Java Moss and Fern, only the stuff mentioned above.
              If your plants do not totally die, but begin springing-up from
              remains, acclimation to conditions could be what's occuring, and I'd
              noticed it with house plants. I've a Cactus that's been seemingly
              static for maybe five years, and it's starting to grow a red-top.
              Another cactus that may have been static for around ten years, and
              suddenly started blooming around the turn of the year, and branched,
              then re branched. I think if you added iron, and was told to add more
              iron, you could have more trouble than you have now. Wish I was
              expert, but have only this experience, and maybe this is'nt wasted.
              Joe
              Pascavage






              --

              - In
              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
              <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
              > i think substrate also matters, What kind of substrate
              > are you using ??
              >
              > --- Anatoli <coolhottiee_2000@y...> wrote:
              > > hi everyone, im new here, had an aquarium for a
              > > while, i can manage
              > > to keep my fish alive but i struggle w plants. i
              > > fertilize em with a
              > > fertilizer enriched w iron and chek ieron levels
              > > regularly, i also
              > > have plenty of lighting... but my plants quickly
              > > disintegrade and teh
              > > stems and leaves become clear and mushy... and the
              > > healthy tops
              > > tear off and float around and soon also begin to go
              > > bad :s i donno
              > > if it neutrient diffeciency, a disease or CO2
              > > difficiency.... somone
              > > please HELP!!!!!
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
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              > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 461 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Re: plants problems
              Hlo Anatoli,
              If you're using an undergravel filter, you'll
              probably not be successful
              Joe
              Pascavage

              In
              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Anatoli"
              <coolhottiee_2000@y...> wrote:
              > hi everyone, im new here, had an aquarium for a while, i can manage
              > to keep my fish alive but i struggle w plants. i fertilize em with
              a
              > fertilizer enriched w iron and chek ieron levels regularly, i also
              > have plenty of lighting... but my plants quickly disintegrade and
              teh
              > stems and leaves become clear and mushy... and the healthy tops
              > tear off and float around and soon also begin to go bad :s i donno
              > if it neutrient diffeciency, a disease or CO2 difficiency....
              somone
              > please HELP!!!!!
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 462 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Re: Snails-love em or hate em?
              it's generally for esthetic reasons. luckily, many different fish will
              eat them as snacks. i actually breed the snails in a separate tank to
              feed my parrots from time to time..
              amalthea
              On Jan 25, 2004, at 7:31 PM, snowdrift52003 wrote:

              > I have a population of little brown snails in my tank, thanks to a
              > live plant purchase. I've heard snails are not desirable...is that
              > for aesthetic reasons or others?
              >
              > Sierra
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              >
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              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 463 From: Cyndy Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Re: Digest Number 84 Another question from Cindy
              I guess Endler's are a little unusual, huh? I've asked at 3 fish
              stores and was met with blank stares. I'm in Denver, Colorado. I
              might use aquabid later in the summer to get some. Have you ever
              used aquabid?

              ~Cyndy
              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Tom Reagin
              <tgreagin@y...> wrote:
              > Cindy
              >
              > I keep Endler's. Where are you located? I am in
              > Lilburn Georgia (metropolitan Atlanta.) They are
              > prolific breeders and will fill a tank rapidly.
              >
              > If you keep only males, you can prevent breeding.
              >
              > ;-)
              >
              > Yours
              >
              > TomR
              >
              > =====
              > Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
              > 104 Church Street
              > Decatur, GA 30030
              >
              > Voice (404)378-3694
              > Fax (404)373-0741
              >
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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 464 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Re: Snails-love em or hate em?
              I purchased two snails on the advice of my LFS and I
              think they are great! They are fun to watch and help
              keep my tank clean. I have a goldfish tank and
              everytime the snails lay eggs my goldies have an egg
              eating party so I don't have the overpopulation
              problem that can happen with snails. As far as I know
              they can multiply really fast! I heard if you do get
              too many of them to put am empty soda bottle with the
              top cut off in the bottom of the tank and put
              someting yummy in there that will attract the snails
              and within a few hours they will all congregate in the
              bottle and you can just take them out. Most fish
              stores will take them off your hands once you round
              them up! Good luck! Janet
              --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
              > it's generally for esthetic reasons. luckily, many
              > different fish will
              > eat them as snacks. i actually breed the snails in a
              > separate tank to
              > feed my parrots from time to time..
              > amalthea
              > On Jan 25, 2004, at 7:31 PM, snowdrift52003 wrote:
              >
              > > I have a population of little brown snails in my
              > tank, thanks to a
              > > live plant purchase. I've heard snails are not
              > desirable...is that
              > > for aesthetic reasons or others?
              > >
              > > Sierra
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > >
              > > ADVERTISEMENT
              > > <image.tiff>
              > >
              > > <image.tiff>
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
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              > >
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              > > �
              > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
              > to:
              > >
              >
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              > > �
              > > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > theYahoo! Terms of Service.
              > >
              > >
              > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
              > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be
              > against your
              > religion....
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
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              >
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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 465 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Re: new member :)
              Erin, AWWWWWWW I love my gold fish they are so
              precious! They are like dogs! They actully beg and eat
              from my hand! You don't know what you're missing LOL
              Good luck with the new tank. You will have a blast. I
              know I just love this hobby. Erin and everyone else: I
              have my 125 gallon goldfish tank cycled and doing
              really well so I started a ten gallon tank so I can
              get some smaller tropical fish. Can you mix neon
              tetras with guppies or will they get eaten? Also I
              can't seem to get the tank to cycle. I had four ADF's
              in there and a baby guppy that got scooped up with the
              frogs It has been running for about three and a half
              weeks and the ammonia is at the very highest reading
              like 8 or so and there are still no nitrites. I used
              ammo lock in the very beginning because I was worried
              about the affect on the frogs. Does ammo lock make the
              ammonia unable to be used by the bacteria. Why would
              this be taking so long? I expected the nitrites to at
              least show up by now, ya know? I have since lost two
              of the frogs and moved the other two in to my goldie
              tank until the cycle is complete but I can't move the
              guppy because the goldie tank is too cold. The guppy
              seems fine eating and growing like a weed. I just want
              the tank to cycle already! Anything I can do to help
              it along? Janet
              --- Erin Vankouwenberg <celticmommy@...>
              wrote:
              > *blinks* I never intended to put GOLDFISH in the
              > tank. I personally don't
              > like them. Hubby wants some of the ones that look
              > like they have lumps on
              > their heads, but I think they're ... um... ugly. Heh
              > heh I think either I
              > had a typo or you misread my post .... I'm planning
              > on getting three GLO
              > FISH. :)
              >
              > Thanks for the info on the fungicide, I'll get some
              > today. :)
              > Erin
              > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
              > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
              > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
              >
              > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
              > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
              > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 466 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Flourite
              I am useing Flourite in my tank and i was wondering if it is possable
              to rinse all of the dirt out of it. the water is almost clear, its
              just alittle dirty. any help would be great.


              Eric
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 467 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Re: new member :)
              I love goldfish too!  :)  but I keep them outside in my outdoor pond :)
               
              cycling:  for what it's worth.. I suppose the time it takes to completely cycle a tank.. depends on the fish load and chemistry of the tank.. and i ppl add fish to the tank while it's trying to cycle.. and luck?  hehehe.  I try to stay away from any chemicals etc.  . I guess lots of people use that ammo lock and amquel stuff though.  According to those I've read about, it effects the tanks ability to cycle in no way... all it does is turns the ammonia into a non harmful state for the fish.  But I've also heard if you use it and then stop using it, that it can cause problems, but only heard that from a few worry warts.  My feeling is that If it did cause problems, i wouldn't think people would use it that much... so it must work for lots of ppl!
               
              When I started my tank.. it took almost two weeks before the ammonia started to show up .. .I'z sittin there for ever.. doing tests every day.. thought maybe I was missing it LOL.. took another two weeks to get to it's highest.. then the nitrites kicked in really quick and the tank was cycled.  So the ammonia took about a month., nitrites took maybe a week and then the tank was ready... course I had a 30 gal with two platys in it.  Maybe took longer.. coz I didn't have a big fish load to start with? 
               
              I always read about how tanks show ammonia high in a week or so.., nitrites in another week and then it's all done.. I'm like what the flip?!  how come I had to wait so long.... but then i found a few sites that talk about it taking a month .. give or take two weeks.. so I guess I fit within that gereralization.
               
              I guess there's products out there to help cycle your tank.. but now that your tank is going.. not sure if it'd be good to introduce those now or not?  To start the tank, I would have used rock or filter mtrl from other tank to get the new tank going more quickly.  New to this hobby so I could be wrong, but that's my thought.
               
              I've never had guppies, but my neon tetras.. have been mixed with lots of diff fish.. they seem to stick to themselves.. only ones they chase after are their own kind... I wouldn't think they'd be a prob to the guppies?
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:45 PM
              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new member :)

              Erin, AWWWWWWW I love my gold fish they are so
              precious! They are like dogs! They actully beg and eat
              from my hand! You don't know what you're missing LOL
              Good luck with the new tank. You will have a blast. I
              know I just love this hobby. Erin and everyone else: I
              have my 125 gallon goldfish tank cycled and doing
              really well so I started a ten gallon tank so I can
              get some smaller tropical fish. Can you mix neon
              tetras with guppies or will they get eaten? Also I
              can't seem to get the tank to cycle. I had four ADF's
              in there and a baby guppy that got scooped up with the
              frogs It has been running for about three and a half
              weeks and the ammonia is at the very highest reading
              like 8 or so and there are still no nitrites. I used
              ammo lock in the very beginning because I was worried
              about the affect on the frogs. Does ammo lock make the
              ammonia unable to be used by the bacteria. Why would
              this be taking so long? I expected the nitrites to at
              least show up by now, ya know? I have since lost two
              of the frogs and moved the other two in to my goldie
              tank until the cycle is complete but I can't move the
              guppy because the goldie tank is too cold. The guppy
              seems fine eating and growing like a weed. I just want
              the tank to cycle already! Anything I can do to help
              it along? Janet
              --- Erin Vankouwenberg <celticmommy@...>
              wrote:
              > *blinks* I never intended to put GOLDFISH in the
              > tank. I personally don't
              > like them. Hubby wants some of the ones that look
              > like they have lumps on
              > their heads, but I think they're ... um... ugly. Heh
              > heh I think either I
              > had a typo or you misread my post .... I'm planning
              > on getting three GLO
              > FISH. :)

              > Thanks for the info on the fungicide, I'll get some
              > today. :)
              >  Erin
              > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
              > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
              > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

              > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
              > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 468 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Re: Flourite
              Hi,
              I do'nt know how long you've had your tank, or how deep your substrate is, or even if Flourite is fertilizing-substrate, but if everythings optimal, you should be able to clarify your water. Don't you use filters?
              Joe Pascavage
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 469 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/25/2004
              Subject: Platys?
              Hi Ya'll. More questions here.

              I visited a store in College Station while I was there and they had the most
              beautiful fish! Gorgeous baby angels! I wanted them so bad, but tank is
              only starting week 2 of cycling and no ammonia or nitrites so far. They
              also had platys in every color imaginable! I asked if they were altered in
              any way and they said no. They do not sell any fish that are injected or
              painted in any way. Guarantee for 7 days as long as you follow their
              recommendations and don't put fish in with others they said not to.

              How will platys do with the black skirted tetras that are cycling my tank
              and then the 2 angels I will add at the end. They recommended putting in
              all the platys, then adding the baby angels as they very last fish.

              Have ya'll seen platys that are almost as vivid as salt water fish? Red,
              orange, pink, yellow, light blue, etc. A real spectrum!

              TTYL
              Mary
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 470 From: Lavenderz9@aol.com Date: 1/26/2004
              Subject: Important question!!
              Hello all....... I was sitting there with my face an inch from the aquarium studying my dying fish (sad!) when i noticed the ittiest bittiest fish i've ever seen. Literally the size of this L letter. I think it's from the dying Dalmation Molly. By the way if any of you are wondering why it's dying here is what happened. I'm fairly new to this tripical fish aquarium keeping.  I had my 2 Platys, 4 African Dwarf frogs, 1 Bubble Molly, 1 Black Tetra (?), and the Dalmation Molly in a bowel while i was changing part of the water and vaccuming the gravel. I'm actually  not sure if it's ok to just leave them in the water when i do the changing but for obvious reasons i wasn't gonna leave them in there to do the vaccuming. Especially the frogs as they are usally laying on the gravel.  Well i STUPIDLY didn't cover th bowel. I came to put them back in and i saw the Dalmation onthe floor not moving. Apparently he jumped out. Well when i put him back in the water he was swimming for a while though not with his usual zest as he used to be the most active one in the group.  He went from bad to worst and is now upside down not moving though still breathing.  I don't know what to do for him. I'm assuming he can't be saved. I feel horribly bad for not covering the bowel, poor little guy.  +
              Well i  need to know how to care for this tiny fish. I had no clue any of the fish were pregnant. Should i take it out? Will the frogs or the other fish eat it?  Does it need his mother to survive?   Thank you to all that have read through this and if you have any tips then please let me know. Thanks!
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 471 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/26/2004
              Subject: Re: Important question!!
              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
              Lavenderz9@a... wrote:
              I had my 2
              > Platys, 4 African Dwarf frogs, 1 Bubble Molly, 1 Black Tetra (?),
              and the
              > Dalmation Molly in a bowel

              Bowels are very unsanitary places to keep fish. Hee hee! Check your
              spelling and you will laugh with me.

              Sierra
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 472 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/26/2004
              Subject: Re: Important question!!
              what size bowel do you have?  fish tank or goldfish bowl?
               
              I'd leave the lil' fishy alone myself.  he/she will live off the stuff in the water and eat left over food that falls to the bottom etc.  It could also get gobbled up.. it's survival of the fittest in my tank.. I have  baby platy and it's growing bigger and bigger.. about teenager size now.  hehe.  some ppl would take it out and put it in a separate tank.  They don't need the mommy or daddy.. typically mommy or daddy is the culprit for eating the babies they produce.  There were probably many more than just that one.. mom prolly ate them.  I know it sounds horrible, but that's fishy life.
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:02 AM
              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Important question!!

              Hello all....... I was sitting there with my face an inch from the aquarium studying my dying fish (sad!) when i noticed the ittiest bittiest fish i've ever seen. Literally the size of this L letter. I think it's from the dying Dalmation Molly. By the way if any of you are wondering why it's dying here is what happened. I'm fairly new to this tripical fish aquarium keeping.  I had my 2 Platys, 4 African Dwarf frogs, 1 Bubble Molly, 1 Black Tetra (?), and the Dalmation Molly in a bowel while i was changing part of the water and vaccuming the gravel. I'm actually  not sure if it's ok to just leave them in the water when i do the changing but for obvious reasons i wasn't gonna leave them in there to do the vaccuming. Especially the frogs as they are usally laying on the gravel.  Well i STUPIDLY didn't cover th bowel. I came to put them back in and i saw the Dalmation onthe floor not moving. Apparently he jumped out. Well when i put him back in the water he was swimming for a while though not with his usual zest as he used to be the most active one in the group.  He went from bad to worst and is now upside down not moving though still breathing.  I don't know what to do for him. I'm assuming he can't be saved. I feel horribly bad for not covering the bowel, poor little guy.  +
              Well i  need to know how to care for this tiny fish. I had no clue any of the fish were pregnant. Should i take it out? Will the frogs or the other fish eat it?  Does it need his mother to survive?   Thank you to all that have read through this and if you have any tips then please let me know. Thanks!



              Yahoo! Groups Links

              Group: AquaticLife Message: 473 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 1/26/2004
              Subject: Re: Important question!!
              You _don't_ need to remove your fish to change the water or vacuum the gravel (just be careful not to suck anyone up - although I have had Endler's livebearers go for a ride through my hose, and they seemed to enjoy it). About the only reason I have ever had to remove fish from my tanks is when moving them to another tank, giving them away, or moving the tank (and that was just when I moved my 150 gallon tank - I've kept the fish in my 10 and 15 gallon tanks with a little bit of water when moving them without any problems).

              - Trevor

              Lavenderz9@... wrote:

              >I had my 2
              >Platys, 4 African Dwarf frogs, 1 Bubble Molly, 1 Black Tetra (?), and the
              >Dalmation Molly in a bowel while i was changing part of the water and vaccuming
              >the gravel. I'm actually not sure if it's ok to just leave them in the water
              >when i do the changing but for obvious reasons i wasn't gonna leave them in
              >there to do the vaccuming. Especially the frogs as they are usally laying on the
              >gravel.
              >
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 474 From: Tom Reagin Date: 1/26/2004
              Subject: Re: Endler's [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 86
              I never see them around here. I have not used
              Aquabid. I got mine from Wilma Duncan and Clint
              Norwood. I am certain that they are pure strains. I
              got some others that I am keeping separate, because I
              think their gene pool has been contaminated with
              guppies. Even they are breeding and multiplying.

              Yours

              TomR

              =====
              Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
              104 Church Street
              Decatur, GA 30030

              Voice (404)378-3694
              Fax (404)373-0741

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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 475 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/26/2004
              Subject: Re: fungal stuff revisited
              Attachments :
                Thanks, Amalthea ... I was planning on treating the surviving fish as a sort of preventive thing, to avoid having to go through that again. I was devastated last night, and my husband just didn't understand why I was upset over "a $2 fish" ... but then I was REALLY mad at him for not agreeing to go with me back into town to get the medicine as soon as he walked in the door. *sigh* He did say we could do it this morning, which means I need to go wake him up now. :) 
                 
                 Erin
                Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
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                -------Original Message-------
                 
                Date: 01/25/04 18:54:11
                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] fungal stuff revisited
                 
                fungal infections can come really quickly and can devastate a tank. the
                best thing to do is to have all medications you *might* end up needing
                ready in advance. **snip**
                 make sure you treat the remaining fish in your tank
                even though the infected one died. fungus can still have spread through
                the tank. before you treat, remove any snails you have as they often
                react poorly to anti fungals, and remove the charcoal in the filter as
                this will effect the power of the medication...
                ____________________________________________________
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                Group: AquaticLife Message: 476 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/26/2004
                Subject: Re: new member :)
                Attachments :
                  Shawn, thanks for the heads up. I knew plecos get pretty big ... I figured that once it got to where it would be too big for my tank, I'd give it to my mom for her front yard pond and either get another pleco or get snails. *grins* They're cheap, and I don't have any heartburn if my mom gets a fish that normally would have nowhere else to go. The pleco I've got now is about an inch long, the same length as both of my surviving mollies. I'd LOVE to get  humongous tank, but I honestly don't have the space in my HOUSE for anything bigger than what I've got now.
                   
                  I was planning on waiting a while for the tank to cycle before getting the Glofish ... I've already lost one Mollie yesterday  and I do NOT want to go through that with a $10 Glofish. I'd really much rather get the tank cycled with the tougher fish NOW and not have to worry about killing off fish because the tank wasn't quite ready. 
                   
                  Again, thank you all for all of the advice you've given! I'd love any links y'all can pass on.
                   
                   Erin
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                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 477 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
                  Subject: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                  Attachments :
                    Blank
                     
                     

                     
                    My  snails  just had a eggs and  am not  sure what  to  do with them now, should  i leave them  there  move them and move them  to  where?I have   5  snails in the tank  and a few  fancy  guppies and  some  danios.
                     

                     

                     

                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 478 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/26/2004
                    Subject: Re: new member :)
                    Hi I to am looking for links and I would also like to find a site on line where I can be able to find what fish goes good with each other. Because books are not accessible to me since I am legally blind. I have my DH checking the levels in the tank. We also have a 1500 water garden pond that we are going to be getting a new liner after the winter thaws.
                     
                    Carol/Rainbow Rose
                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 479 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/26/2004
                    Subject: do tails regenerate??
                    Attachments :
                       Okay, so I made my grand entrance to the group with a bang. LOL Hope y'all aren't getting sick of my questions yet.
                       
                      Okay, so I lost one black mollie yesterday evening to some sort of fungus. (there was white stuff on its mouth.)  I dropped a tablet and a half (because the instructions said one tablet for every ten gallons of water, and I've got a 15 gallon tank) of Fungus Clear. I took the charcoal cartridges out of my filter before I dropped the tabs in. I did that this morning ... and I called the 800 number on the package and asked the kind woman on the phone when I could put my filter cartridges back in, and she said as soon as the fish got better.
                       
                      So here is the thing ... the biggest mollie now appears to have tail rot. (icky!) So I was SOOO glad that I went ahead and got the Fungus Clear, before it got worse. So since part of the biggest Mollie's tail appears to be getting thinner ... will it thicken back up to normal Mollie tail appearance? Or will it always look sorta threadbare? I was wondering about how much longer I could figure on keeping the filter cartridges out of the tank.
                       
                      I'm getting peeved at the pet store, now ... those fish looked FINE at the store, of course. I get them home and they start looking horrible. And of course there is no other pet store within a reasonable distance that even carries fish. There is the one store that specializes in exotics, but I already know that THEY jack their prices up to crazy levels, since I will have to go there to get my glofish once I get this fungus kicked.
                       
                       Erin
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                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 480 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/26/2004
                      Subject: Re: do tails regenerate??
                      don't know anything about the fin rot, etc or chemicals to help..

                      I do know that before I add anymore fish., I'll do the quarantine thing
                      though.. lil' 5 gal bucket with air stone and heater.. just to make sure
                      things are all right.. I'd hate to subject the rest of the fish to something
                      horrible.

                      but the fish store.. the one thing I try to remember.. is that the fish in
                      the tanks.. are there for maybe a week. God knows how many die in their
                      tanks. How many died on the way to the fish store.. and of course all of
                      this prolly depends on the source and the fish store you go to. But I guess
                      that's half the fun.. trying to find a reuptable and dependable fish store.
                      I guess some people.. probably lots do online shopping for fish.

                      I actually have a 'relationship' with one lady at the pet store.. she tells
                      me which ones have been there the longest (and haven't died already).. and
                      which are younger. I tend to find that the younger ones that have lived the
                      longest in the tanks have the better outcome. Dunno if this is true or
                      not., but for me it is. and if they've survived two to three weeks in them
                      lil' 10 gal tanks.. I'd imagine they'd survive most anything. I think if a
                      fish lasts two weeks at a fish store it's very uncommon.

                      What gets ME really peaved.. is when the store wouldn't give me good ideas..
                      suggestions.. said here are 10 fish to start of your tank.. omg! that's why
                      I come here for people's advice. MUCh better I think.

                      can't remember., but thought ur tank is new.. just suggest you wait til tank
                      is completely cycled.. and if worried about thu glofish.. maybe do a
                      quarantine tank.?

                      >From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                      >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: "Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium"
                      ><FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] do tails regenerate??
                      >Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:37:12 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                      >
                      > Okay, so I made my grand entrance to the group with a bang. LOL Hope
                      >y'all
                      >aren't getting sick of my questions yet.
                      >
                      >Okay, so I lost one black mollie yesterday evening to some sort of fungus.
                      >(there was white stuff on its mouth.) I dropped a tablet and a half
                      >(because the instructions said one tablet for every ten gallons of water,
                      >and I've got a 15 gallon tank) of Fungus Clear. I took the charcoal
                      >cartridges out of my filter before I dropped the tabs in. I did that this
                      >morning ... and I called the 800 number on the package and asked the kind
                      >woman on the phone when I could put my filter cartridges back in, and she
                      >said as soon as the fish got better.
                      >
                      >So here is the thing ... the biggest mollie now appears to have tail rot.
                      >(icky!) So I was SOOO glad that I went ahead and got the Fungus Clear,
                      >before it got worse. So since part of the biggest Mollie's tail appears to
                      >be getting thinner ... will it thicken back up to normal Mollie tail
                      >appearance? Or will it always look sorta threadbare? I was wondering about
                      >how much longer I could figure on keeping the filter cartridges out of the
                      >tank.
                      >
                      >I'm getting peeved at the pet store, now ... those fish looked FINE at the
                      >store, of course. I get them home and they start looking horrible. And of
                      >course there is no other pet store within a reasonable distance that even
                      >carries fish. There is the one store that specializes in exotics, but I
                      >already know that THEY jack their prices up to crazy levels, since I will
                      >have to go there to get my glofish once I get this fungus kicked.
                      >
                      > Erin
                      >Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                      >MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                      >AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                      >
                      >Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
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                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 481 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2004
                      Subject: Re: do tails regenerate??
                      hello Erin,
                      As a person who's been involved in the hobby, but peripheral to a lot that goes on here/there, I remember that some Mollies are unusually difficult to keep healthy if exact condiotions are'nt met, and mouth and or fin rot are some of the problems. Could be the conditions where the Mollies grew were too different from yours, and the shock of change was too much for them.
                      I'd invest in booke that relate to amplified information on fish. Try looking for 'mollies and fin rot or mouth rot, or fungus in GOOGLE.
                      jOE pASCVAVAGE
                      are
                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 482 From: nickfronk13 Date: 1/26/2004
                      Subject: cloudy fish tank
                      my fish tank is very cloudy. On the top of the water it seems to look
                      dusty when i turn on the light on top what should i do
                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 483 From: Kelly Date: 1/26/2004
                      Subject: Attn: Aaron!
                      WOW.. I just got around to looking at all of the pictures you have
                      posted.. Is there any way that you could maybe change the description
                      or something so we can tell what the fish and plants are?? I know
                      your busy, but it was just a thought!

                      ALSO... HOW do you get such GREAT pictures with no reflection or
                      anything?? I would love to take and post pics, but you would not be
                      able to tell what was what when I take them. : )

                      Thanks,
                      Kelly
                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 484 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/26/2004
                      Subject: Re: cloudy fish tank
                      I think it's an ammonia spike, the white tinge is a
                      good way to tell. I think the tank is few days old
                      hence it is expected that this happens. Ignore the
                      cloudiness as this will go away on it's own as the
                      tank completes the first stage of cycling. Your
                      biggest concern is the health of the fish in the tank,
                      ammonia can hurt them but the next stage of cycling is
                      the nitrite spike which is far more dangerous. Ammonia
                      and nitrite should be monitered when cycling new tanks
                      with fish in them and partial water changes should
                      performed to keep these levels below lethal amounts.
                      If you change about 10-15% of the water every other
                      day you should be able to keep these values down to
                      safe levels until cycling is complete.

                      Here's a link that talks about cycling:

                      http://www.uniquaria.com/articles/cn.html

                      Hope that helps..SuNnY !!

                      --- nickfronk13 <nickfronk13@...> wrote:
                      > my fish tank is very cloudy. On the top of the water
                      > it seems to look
                      > dusty when i turn on the light on top what should i
                      > do
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


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                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 485 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/26/2004
                      Subject: Re: Important question!!
                      Hi there,

                      Sad to note about ur Molly committing suicide !

                      How big is your Tank ?? and why do you remove the
                      fishes when cleaning the tank. Dont you have a filter
                      ?
                      If not buy one.

                      If u have a good filter running then theres no need to
                      remove the fishes for cleaning the tank. You can just
                      do a 20 - 30% water changes every week to keep the
                      tank clean.

                      Hope this helps....SuNnY !


                      --- Lavenderz9@... wrote:
                      > Hello all....... I was sitting there with my face an
                      > inch from the aquarium
                      > studying my dying fish (sad!) when i noticed the
                      > ittiest bittiest fish i've
                      > ever seen. Literally the size of this L letter. I
                      > think it's from the dying
                      > Dalmation Molly. By the way if any of you are
                      > wondering why it's dying here is what
                      > happened. I'm fairly new to this tripical fish
                      > aquarium keeping. I had my 2
                      > Platys, 4 African Dwarf frogs, 1 Bubble Molly, 1
                      > Black Tetra (?), and the
                      > Dalmation Molly in a bowel while i was changing part
                      > of the water and vaccuming
                      > the gravel. I'm actually not sure if it's ok to
                      > just leave them in the water
                      > when i do the changing but for obvious reasons i
                      > wasn't gonna leave them in
                      > there to do the vaccuming. Especially the frogs as
                      > they are usally laying on the
                      > gravel. Well i STUPIDLY didn't cover th bowel. I
                      > came to put them back in and
                      > i saw the Dalmation onthe floor not moving.
                      > Apparently he jumped out. Well
                      > when i put him back in the water he was swimming for
                      > a while though not with his
                      > usual zest as he used to be the most active one in
                      > the group. He went from
                      > bad to worst and is now upside down not moving
                      > though still breathing. I don't
                      > know what to do for him. I'm assuming he can't be
                      > saved. I feel horribly bad
                      > for not covering the bowel, poor little guy. +
                      > Well i need to know how to care for this tiny fish.
                      > I had no clue any of the
                      > fish were pregnant. Should i take it out? Will the
                      > frogs or the other fish
                      > eat it? Does it need his mother to survive? Thank
                      > you to all that have read
                      > through this and if you have any tips then please
                      > let me know. Thanks!
                      >


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                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 486 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/26/2004
                      Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                      If u want snails then theres no need to do anything.

                      But if you dont want the snails then just smash the
                      eggs...

                      ...SuNnY !!

                      --- Lady Tara Minerva <clnolan@...> wrote:
                      > Blank
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My snails just had a eggs and am not sure what
                      > to do with them now, should i leave them there
                      > move them and move them to where?I have 5
                      > snails in the tank and a few fancy guppies and
                      > some danios.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


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                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 487 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/26/2004
                      Subject: another question from Erin
                      Attachments :
                         I've been doing LOADS of research on Mollies tonight. I'm thinking that since the Glofish are so expensive, I might just not get them at all. So I'm thinking of making my tank just for Mollies, and once the current aquarium residents finish their fungal treatment get one or two more Mollies. I've found through all kinds of sites online that Mollies (and especially Black Mollies) are very prone to fungal infections. I've also found that many sites are saying that Mollies actually prefer a slightly brackish aquarium. So I'm trying to find a straight answer on how much aquarium salt to add to my 15 gallon tank. Every site I've seen this evening that has recommended adding salt has given a different amount! Also, would introducing salt harm my plecostamus?
                         
                        If introducing salt would help my Mollies with their fungal infections, that sounds to me like a great idea, but I don't want to add too much salt. I also don't want to kill the plecostamus because he is my algae control. I've read that Mollies are omnivorous and will eat algae (which explains why they keep snitching the algae tablets I put in for the plecostamus), but I don't have live plants so any algae the tank gets is going to be just sorta on the sides of the tank and on surfaces ... not really wispy or anything. So if salt would not be good for my tiny plecostamus, should I maybe look into other algae control? Possibly snails? And how many snails is a good number to get so that I wouldn't be over run with them?
                         
                         Erin
                        Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
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                        Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 488 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: cloudy fish tank
                        Hi,
                        How often do you change the water? How old is your setup? Do you overfeed? Did you turn-off the filters for a moment or so and examine the stuff that looks like dust with a magnifier/loupe or magnifying-glass to see if it's REALLY dust? How big is your tank? How many fish do you nhave? Do you have filters? Do you have a heater? Have you introduced anything living into the tank lately?
                        Joe Pascavage
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 489 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: Important question!!
                        Since some Mollies are more sensitive to their environment than others, and maybe the group is more sensitive thansome other fish, placing the fish in a bowl could have caused a situation that overstocked the bowl, gradually depleting the oxygen-level, causing the fish to feel suffocated, and maybe that's why she jumped. Never heard of anyone removing the fish to vacuum, but you should have very good eyesight to see something as teeny as the fish you described, or place that fish in one of those floating/plastic fry containers. (which could be virtually impossible) The problem of doing a vacuum with fish in the tank is mitigated if you're confident and careful. Don't let your attention waver. My Cory's dart to the siphon intake, but I sort of shoo them away with quick movements toward them. That has been a successful way to have them avoid being suddenly sucked into the intake. Also be ready to quickly lift the drain-end from your bucket, or whatever. I've brought baby cory's into the drain-bucket in the past, and careful examination of the water and gravel to distinguish the tiny creatures if they're there along with their retrieval works. When I used a siphon tube without one of those oversized venturas (that you find on battery-powered vacuums), because I need to actually remove surface gravel, in order to remove, say, brush algae (while it's ouside the tank), I caused the death of a Cory due to a lapse of attention. The suction snapped his nose-end into the siphon opening, where he was stuck 'till I released the pressure. He seemed dazed and bewildered, and looked right at me as if wondering what happened? I felt at that time, he knew something terrible had happened, and he died not too long after. In over ten years of this practice, that's the only death I can attribute to leaving fish in the tank. I really believe you could do more harm stressing the fish by removing them, than be keeping them in the tank and being very careful.
                        Joe Pascavage
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 490 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                        Will my fish eat the babies  as they hatch?
                         
                         
                        If u want snails then theres no need to do anything.

                        But if you dont want the snails then just smash the
                        eggs...

                        ...SuNnY !!

                         

                         
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 491 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: new member :)
                         
                        Hi Carol! 
                         
                        Shawn here.
                         
                        If you mention a couple of fish that you may be interested in and size of tank you have I bet people on here would love to give some ideas of what fish they've kept and like.  Are you thinking a simple community tank?  I myself like schooling fish.. lots of them.  I have a simple tank with lots of tetras, a couple gourami's, platys, - and TONS of fake plants heheheh.  it's really plain but I like it.
                         
                        We also have an outdoor pond.  i can't remember the type of liner, but it's a very thick rubberized uv resistant.. 30 yr guarantee or something.  people that use it in their pond at the place we bought from have had it for many years with absolutely no problem and we love it.  They say it will probably never have to be replaced in our lifetime especially with the prep work we did.  Our pond is about 2,000 gallon.  We use a natural plant bog for filtration and works really well.  would love to share ideas with each other some time.
                         
                        and then there's the saltwater reef tank screen saver.  cheaper than the real thing *laughing*  some day., some day.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 12:46 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new member :)

                        Hi I to am looking for links and I would also like to find a site on line where I can be able to find what fish goes good with each other. Because books are not accessible to me since I am legally blind. I have my DH checking the levels in the tank. We also have a 1500 water garden pond that we are going to be getting a new liner after the winter thaws.
                         
                        Carol/Rainbow Rose



                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 492 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                        Except Loaches, no other fishes will eat it.

                        --- Lady Tara Minerva <clnolan@...> wrote:
                        > Will my fish eat the babies as they hatch?
                        >
                        >
                        > If u want snails then theres no need to do anything.
                        >
                        > But if you dont want the snails then just smash the
                        > eggs...
                        >
                        > ...SuNnY !!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 493 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                        parrot fish of all kinds will eat snails.
                        amalthea
                        On Jan 27, 2004, at 12:02 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

                        > Except Loaches, no other fishes will eat it.
                        >
                        > --- Lady Tara Minerva <clnolan@...> wrote:
                        > > Will my fish eat the babies  as they hatch?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > If u want snails then theres no need to do anything.
                        > >
                        > > But if you dont want the snails then just smash the
                        > > eggs...
                        > >
                        > > ...SuNnY !!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > __________________________________
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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 494 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                         Well i have no loaches in with my  apple snails, just a  few  guppies and danios
                        Thank you
                        Except Loaches, no other fishes will eat it.

                        --- Lady Tara Minerva <clnolan@...> wrote:
                        > Will my
                        fish eat the babies  as they hatch?
                        >
                        >
                        > If u want
                        snails then theres no need to do anything.
                        >
                        > But if you dont want
                        the snails then just smash the
                        > eggs...
                        >
                        > ...SuNnY
                        !!
                         

                         
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 495 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                        ah, if you just have apple snails, you'd do better to let them mature
                        into adults. apple snails don't infest the tank like common brown
                        snails and if you ever have too many, you can sell them back to the
                        local pet shop or trade them for food. you could also consider selling
                        them privately. they're great little pets.
                        amalthea
                        On Jan 27, 2004, at 12:04 AM, Lady Tara Minerva wrote:

                        >  Well i have no loaches in with my  apple snails, just a  few  guppies
                        > and danios
                        > Thank you
                        > Except Loaches, no other fishes will eat it.
                        >
                        > --- Lady Tara Minerva <clnolan@...> wrote:
                        > > Will my fish eat the babies  as they hatch?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > If u want snails then theres no need to do anything.
                        > >
                        > > But if you dont want the snails then just smash the
                        > > eggs...
                        > >
                        > > ...SuNnY !!
                        >  
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                        >  
                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >  
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                        >
                        >
                        http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                        for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                        religion....
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 496 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                        I only have a few guppies and some danios in with my snails

                        parrot fish of all kinds will eat snails.
                        amalthea
                        On Jan 27, 2004, at 12:02 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

                        > Except Loaches, no other fishes will eat it.
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 497 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: new member :)
                        Thanks for the advice. It's much appreciated. I lost
                        another froggie today. So sad. Poor little guy! I've
                        read that most of them don't live past a month because
                        they aren't healthy to begin with. I still have one
                        left who is doing great and giving the goldies a run
                        for the money for the frozen blood worms he's so cute.
                        I hope he makes it. Janet
                        --- The Hamburgs <thehamburgs@...> wrote:
                        > I love goldfish too! :) but I keep them outside in
                        > my outdoor pond :)
                        >
                        > cycling: for what it's worth.. I suppose the time
                        > it takes to completely cycle a tank.. depends on the
                        > fish load and chemistry of the tank.. and i ppl add
                        > fish to the tank while it's trying to cycle.. and
                        > luck? hehehe. I try to stay away from any
                        > chemicals etc. . I guess lots of people use that
                        > ammo lock and amquel stuff though. According to
                        > those I've read about, it effects the tanks ability
                        > to cycle in no way... all it does is turns the
                        > ammonia into a non harmful state for the fish. But
                        > I've also heard if you use it and then stop using
                        > it, that it can cause problems, but only heard that
                        > from a few worry warts. My feeling is that If it
                        > did cause problems, i wouldn't think people would
                        > use it that much... so it must work for lots of ppl!
                        >
                        > When I started my tank.. it took almost two weeks
                        > before the ammonia started to show up .. .I'z sittin
                        > there for ever.. doing tests every day.. thought
                        > maybe I was missing it LOL.. took another two weeks
                        > to get to it's highest.. then the nitrites kicked in
                        > really quick and the tank was cycled. So the
                        > ammonia took about a month., nitrites took maybe a
                        > week and then the tank was ready... course I had a
                        > 30 gal with two platys in it. Maybe took longer..
                        > coz I didn't have a big fish load to start with?
                        >
                        > I always read about how tanks show ammonia high in a
                        > week or so.., nitrites in another week and then it's
                        > all done.. I'm like what the flip?! how come I had
                        > to wait so long.... but then i found a few sites
                        > that talk about it taking a month .. give or take
                        > two weeks.. so I guess I fit within that
                        > gereralization.
                        >
                        > I guess there's products out there to help cycle
                        > your tank.. but now that your tank is going.. not
                        > sure if it'd be good to introduce those now or not?
                        > To start the tank, I would have used rock or filter
                        > mtrl from other tank to get the new tank going more
                        > quickly. New to this hobby so I could be wrong, but
                        > that's my thought.
                        >
                        > I've never had guppies, but my neon tetras.. have
                        > been mixed with lots of diff fish.. they seem to
                        > stick to themselves.. only ones they chase after are
                        > their own kind... I wouldn't think they'd be a prob
                        > to the guppies?
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Janet Abreu
                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:45 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new
                        > member :)
                        >
                        >
                        > Erin, AWWWWWWW I love my gold fish they are so
                        > precious! They are like dogs! They actully beg and
                        > eat
                        > from my hand! You don't know what you're missing
                        > LOL
                        > Good luck with the new tank. You will have a
                        > blast. I
                        > know I just love this hobby. Erin and everyone
                        > else: I
                        > have my 125 gallon goldfish tank cycled and doing
                        > really well so I started a ten gallon tank so I
                        > can
                        > get some smaller tropical fish. Can you mix neon
                        > tetras with guppies or will they get eaten? Also I
                        > can't seem to get the tank to cycle. I had four
                        > ADF's
                        > in there and a baby guppy that got scooped up with
                        > the
                        > frogs It has been running for about three and a
                        > half
                        > weeks and the ammonia is at the very highest
                        > reading
                        > like 8 or so and there are still no nitrites. I
                        > used
                        > ammo lock in the very beginning because I was
                        > worried
                        > about the affect on the frogs. Does ammo lock make
                        > the
                        > ammonia unable to be used by the bacteria. Why
                        > would
                        > this be taking so long? I expected the nitrites to
                        > at
                        > least show up by now, ya know? I have since lost
                        > two
                        > of the frogs and moved the other two in to my
                        > goldie
                        > tank until the cycle is complete but I can't move
                        > the
                        > guppy because the goldie tank is too cold. The
                        > guppy
                        > seems fine eating and growing like a weed. I just
                        > want
                        > the tank to cycle already! Anything I can do to
                        > help
                        > it along? Janet
                        > --- Erin Vankouwenberg <celticmommy@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > *blinks* I never intended to put GOLDFISH in the
                        > > tank. I personally don't
                        > > like them. Hubby wants some of the ones that
                        > look
                        > > like they have lumps on
                        > > their heads, but I think they're ... um... ugly.
                        > Heh
                        > > heh I think either I
                        > > had a typo or you misread my post .... I'm
                        > planning
                        > > on getting three GLO
                        > > FISH. :)
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for the info on the fungicide, I'll get
                        > some
                        > > today. :)
                        > > Erin
                        > > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                        > > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                        > > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                        > >
                        > > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                        > > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                        > > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                        > > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site
                        > >
                        > http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                        >
                        >
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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 498 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: another question from Erin
                        Hi,
                        I've read and heard about fish used for algal control, and some of the attitude on the subject seems to be a way to get rid of a normal component of a tank 'cuz algae is supposedly dirt, and a way to sell fish for algae control. It's a market-driven phenomenon. To me, so far, expecting to have 'algae-eaters' eat all your algae is like expecting corydoras to eat all the droppings of the fish in the tank, and all the plant detritus. Corys need REAL FOOD like all other fish. Just like a male Betta would like a larger environment than a tiny fish-bowl (like the one he had in nature), not a little cage because he can breathe air. By that standard, we should be kept in closets 'till we go to work, 'cuz we breath air. The aforementioned are largely or somewhat market driven, and algae can have a place in an aquarium. If you can train your algae-eaters to eat nothing but the inside tank front, you can see your fish. If you can't, you could scrape the front free of algae, and have a farm on the remaining sides for the algae eaters.
                        (I'm not referring to the algal types that take advantage of undesireable aquarium conditions.)
                        Joe Pascavage
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 499 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                        And a cory

                        I only have a few guppies and some danios in with my snails

                        parrot fish of all kinds will eat snails.
                        amalthea
                        On Jan 27, 2004, at 12:02 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

                        > Except Loaches, no other fishes will eat it.
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 500 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/26/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                        We really like them and they keep the tank nice and clean, i have a 2
                        yellows,2 blues and a black

                        ah, if you just have apple snails, you'd do better to let them mature
                        into adults. apple snails don't infest the tank like common brown
                        snails and if you ever have too many, you can sell them back to the
                        local pet shop or trade them for food. you could also consider selling
                        them privately. they're great little pets.
                        amalthea
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 501 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                        Most fish will eat baby snails if given the chance we had loads of baby guppies in a nursing tank, and stuck a snail in to keep it clean, the snail laid loads of eggs when they started to move around they got eaten by the baby guppies. 
                         
                        Regards
                         
                        Sarah & Tony
                         
                        -------Original Message-------
                         
                        Date: 27/01/2004 05:02:39
                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                         
                        Except Loaches, no other fishes will eat it.

                        --- Lady Tara Minerva <clnolan@...> wrote:
                        > Will my fish eat the babies  as they hatch?
                        >
                        >
                        > If u want snails then theres no need to do anything.
                        >
                        > But if you dont want the snails then just smash the
                        > eggs...
                        >
                        > ...SuNnY !!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 502 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 1/27/2004
                        Subject: Re: CAN SOMEONE HELP ME
                        I  guess i  will be  setting up  my other  tank
                         
                         
                        Most fish will eat baby snails if given the chance we had loads of baby guppies in a nursing tank, and stuck a snail in to keep it clean, the snail laid loads of eggs when they started to move around they got eaten by the baby guppies. 
                         
                        Regards
                         
                        Sarah & Tony
                         
                         

                         
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 503 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/27/2004
                        Subject: Re: new member :)
                        Hi Shawn, Thanks. Well when I was sited I raised block mollies which I really do not want to get into them since they are so sensitive. And having to rely on others to check the water can be a pain...
                         
                        But I have also had groupers like Neon's, fancy tail guppies and then I also had the red platys. But I think they are also a bit sensitive also. We also had albino cats. But that was 20 years ago and I am sure that there is new types of fish out there. I do like groups and some of the just plain swimmers. I also would like to get a few more tetras for the other little fish I have in there. We have sword tails and a placosamus I think 8 total fish in a 75 gallon aquarium. I was told that fancy tail guppies would not work with sword tails? And I have changed my mine about kissing gromies since I read a web sites info that only males do the kissing but it is really fighting they are doing.
                         
                        So yes I have learned since I have been in the group.
                        Thank you all and I any can give suggestions for a low maitance but colorful fishes go for it. With being blind for 20 years it makes it frustrating to not see the fish as I want to. So I have to teach my DH how to check the healthy fish out when buying them
                        Carol//Rainbow Rose
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:24 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new member :)

                         
                        Hi Carol! 
                         
                        Shawn here.
                         
                        If you mention a couple of fish that you may be interested in and size of tank you have I bet people on here would love to give some ideas of what fish they've kept and like.  Are you thinking a simple community tank?  I myself like schooling fish.. lots of them.  I have a simple tank with lots of tetras, a couple gourami's, platys, - and TONS of fake plants heheheh.  it's really plain but I like it.
                         
                        We also have an outdoor pond.  i can't remember the type of liner, but it's a very thick rubberized uv resistant.. 30 yr guarantee or something.  people that use it in their pond at the place we bought from have had it for many years with absolutely no problem and we love it.  They say it will probably never have to be replaced in our lifetime especially with the prep work we did.  Our pond is about 2,000 gallon.  We use a natural plant bog for filtration and works really well.  would love to share ideas with each other some time.
                         
                        and then there's the saltwater reef tank screen saver.  cheaper than the real thing *laughing*  some day., some day.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 12:46 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new member :)

                        Hi I to am looking for links and I would also like to find a site on line where I can be able to find what fish goes good with each other. Because books are not accessible to me since I am legally blind. I have my DH checking the levels in the tank. We also have a 1500 water garden pond that we are going to be getting a new liner after the winter thaws.
                         
                        Carol/Rainbow Rose



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                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 504 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
                        Subject: Re: [Freshwater] new member :) [ JANET ]
                        You know, i always thought that about frogs too.. could never keep them alive as a kid.. course also couldn't keep the blasted fish alive either.  God only knows what I was doing to those poor fishies ! LOL  well not lol.. it's not funny., but in same sense it is.. ANYway..
                         
                        I have a frog and a beta in my 2 gal tank at work.. that frog outlasted the beta!  I couldn't believe it! - so I guess they CAN live a while!  course the beta only lasted about a year.. frogs still a kickin' though.  (frog eats the beta food.. the crumbled crushed up type.. not the pellets) (PERSONALLY I think the frog stressed the beta out.. too small of turf for the two to share.. the frog was quite teritorial suprisingly enough.. sometimes i even found the frog sitting on the beta.. like riding a horse or something!  wish i had a camera!)  He's in the tank by his lonesome now.. may get another froggy friend for him.
                         
                        Co-worker has three in her 5 gal tank.., with one beta.  one of the three passed away about two months.. but the other two.. i THINK they're still alive.  (names are Frik and Frak.. then there's Filbert the snail.. course now Filber it Filbert 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc. heheheh)  the frogs go hide under the UnderGravelFilter all the time.  I guess all that muck n gunk is paradise to them.  prolly also has something to do with the hideout ability.  But they do have tons of room elsewhere in the tank to hide.  I know they did last at least 6 mo.. coz I did a complete water change at that time due to my co-workers inability to look at a little bit of algae and thinking that a complete change would be best.  (i didn't agree.. but it wouldn't kill the frogs or the beta.. so did it . and found the frogs under the UGF)
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:16 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new member :)

                        Thanks for the advice. It's much appreciated. I lost
                        another froggie today. So sad. Poor little guy! I've
                        read that most of them don't live past a month because
                        they aren't healthy to begin with. I still have one
                        left who is doing great and giving the goldies a run
                        for the money for the frozen blood worms he's so cute.
                        I hope he makes it. Janet
                        --- The Hamburgs <thehamburgs@...> wrote:
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 505 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
                        Subject: Re: another question from Erin
                        I heard some Betas grew up in mud puddles overseas.  I figger as long as I can give them a bigger enviro than what they have at the store., a .. what ... 2 oz cup LOL.. sheesh.  My betas are in 2 to 5 gal containers.  The one in the 2 gal quite active.  5 gal.. I think he's a couch potato.
                         
                        My swordtail.. that dang thing eats ANYTHING that she can get her lips on LOL  She's always at the back of the tank competing with pleco.  only place in my tank where algae grows well.. where the water dumps back into the tank.. aeration.  nutty fish.  Dunno if she's actually getting anything, but assume she is if she's always there pressin her lips gainst the tank wall all the time.  This swordtail was not sold to me as an algae eater.. but what a chowhound!
                         
                        If everybody went for what was marketed., we'd be in deep dog doo doo. :) Hopefully if we're smart enough to keep fish alive, we are definitely smart enough to ignore all the marketing and do our research first.  I mean.. just look at the marketing on the front of a 5 gal minibow.. a kahjillion fish in a 5 gal tank.. duH! 
                         
                        Either way., I have a bristlenose pleco.  No algae in tank that is unsightly to me.  I know that some algae eaters dont eat algae as they get older .. or maybe never.  But that bristlenose is King of algae eating in my book.  Three times the cost of my magnetic algae scrubbing thingies.. but dang., never have to touch the tank walls ever again as long as that dudes alive.
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 8:43 PM
                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] another question from Erin

                        Hi,
                           I've read and heard about fish used for algal control, and some of the attitude on the subject seems to be a way to get rid of a normal component of a tank 'cuz algae is supposedly dirt, and a way to sell fish for algae control. It's a market-driven phenomenon. To me, so far, expecting to have 'algae-eaters' eat all your algae is like expecting corydoras to eat all the droppings of the fish in the tank, and all the plant detritus. Corys need REAL FOOD like all other fish. Just like a male Betta would like a larger environment than a tiny fish-bowl (like the one he had in nature), not a little cage because he can breathe air. By that standard, we should be kept in closets 'till we go to work, 'cuz we breath air. The aforementioned are largely or somewhat market driven, and algae can have a place in an aquarium. If you can train your algae-eaters to eat nothing but the inside tank front, you can see your fish. If you can't, you could scrape the front free of algae, and have a farm on the remaining sides for the algae eaters.
                           (I'm not referring to the algal types that take advantage of undesireable aquarium conditions.)
                                         Joe Pascavage




                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 506 From: Cyndy Date: 1/27/2004
                        Subject: Do any of you have problems
                        with your little fish (like tetras) getting stuck in your filter? I
                        wonder if I should cover the filter oles with netting or something.
                        I came home last night and one of my tetras was missing and I blaimed
                        my Betta Bob. And after my 4 year old repeated "Shame on you Bob,
                        leave the little guys alone" for 5 minutes...I realized the tetra was
                        stuck in the filter.

                        ~Cyndy
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 507 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
                        Subject: Re: new member :)
                         
                        top of the morning to you! *smile
                         
                        Hi carol,
                         
                        Well I'm really horrible at suggesting fish and will be of no help probably, so maybe others will read this message and jump in to give suggestions on some fairly hardy colorful fish.
                         
                        The gouramis I have are the neon blue ones.. I think they're absolutely beautiful addition to my tank.  They tend to be shy at first., but then hovering at the top all the time for food.  One of them seems to stay near the bottom though., sort of worried about him.  But other than that., I just have a school of neon tetras.. My wife liked the glowlite tetras for some reason so we also have some of those.  I guess we like anything with the word neon or glow in it LOL.
                         
                        - Shawn
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:20 AM
                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new member :)

                        Hi Shawn, Thanks. Well when I was sited I raised block mollies which I really do not want to get into them since they are so sensitive. And having to rely on others to check the water can be a pain...
                         
                        But I have also had groupers like Neon's, fancy tail guppies and then I also had the red platys. But I think they are also a bit sensitive also. We also had albino cats. But that was 20 years ago and I am sure that there is new types of fish out there. I do like groups and some of the just plain swimmers. I also would like to get a few more tetras for the other little fish I have in there. We have sword tails and a placosamus I think 8 total fish in a 75 gallon aquarium. I was told that fancy tail guppies would not work with sword tails? And I have changed my mine about kissing gromies since I read a web sites info that only males do the kissing but it is really fighting they are doing.
                         
                        So yes I have learned since I have been in the group.
                        Thank you all and I any can give suggestions for a low maitance but colorful fishes go for it. With being blind for 20 years it makes it frustrating to not see the fish as I want to. So I have to teach my DH how to check the healthy fish out when buying them
                        Carol//Rainbow Rose
                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 508 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
                        Subject: Re: algae eaters
                        Attachments :
                          Well I'm not trying to keep a tank that is spotless. I understand that some algae is beneficial to the fish. I do like to actually see my fish, which is why I'm so frustrated with the current condition of the tank, the medicine for the fungus turns the water bright green.  I'm even thinking of getting rid of my pleco altogether when he gets a little bigger, because Mollies are algae eaters as well. (I didn't know this until they kept stealing the algae tabs I bought to feed the pleco.) My mother has a koi pond in her front yard (minus the koi, the neighbors animals kept eating them so she stopped buying them.) and I've seen references to plecos surviving in outdoor ponds. So I'm thinking of keeping the pleco, making sure he's healthy and the weather has warmed up (LOL) and giving him to mom.
                           
                          Incidentally, does anyone have any tips on keeping fish in an outdoor pond safe from other animals? I'm sure my mom would love to get fish in there again, but she gets so frustrated when cats and dogs go fishing and all of her effort goes to waste. She's got great water plants in there now.
                           
                           Erin
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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 509 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
                          Subject: Adding Salt to tanks?
                           Hi there,
                           
                           Everyone talks of adding salt and how much to the tank, but I have not been able to find any information on how much to add if any with water changes etc.  
                           
                          Does anyone have any suggestions as to how often and how much aquarium salt to add to established tanks that have already had salt added??
                           
                          Thanks so much in advance for any advice!
                          Kelly
                           
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 510 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/27/2004
                          Subject: Re: algae eaters
                          In a message dated 1/27/2004 8:47:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, celticmommy@... writes:
                          Incidentally, does anyone have any tips on keeping fish in an outdoor pond safe from other animals? I'm sure my mom would love to get fish in there again, but she gets so frustrated when cats and dogs go fishing and all of her effort goes to waste. She's got great water plants in there now.
                           
                          If the pond is deep enough they are usually safe.
                          I put a cinder block in my patio tub, and they hide in it.  I think it makes it more dificult for predators to get at them.
                           
                          Mike
                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 511 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/27/2004
                          Subject: Re: algae eaters
                          i do the same thing, and we keep a net over it in autumn when the
                          hunting mammals are fattening up for the winter...
                          amalthea
                          On Jan 27, 2004, at 12:01 PM, Deenerz@... wrote:

                          > In a message dated 1/27/2004 8:47:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                          > celticmommy@... writes:
                          > Incidentally, does anyone have any tips on keeping fish in an outdoor
                          > pond safe from other animals? I'm sure my mom would love to get fish
                          > in there again, but she gets so frustrated when cats and dogs go
                          > fishing and all of her effort goes to waste. She's got great water
                          > plants in there now.
                          >  
                          > If the pond is deep enough they are usually safe.
                          > I put a cinder block in my patio tub, and they hide in it.  I think it
                          > makes it more dificult for predators to get at them.
                          >  
                          > Mike
                          >
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                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 512 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/27/2004
                          Subject: Re: algae eaters
                          Attachments :
                            I use a blow up snake that I found at walmart in the garden section. I kept having something getting in my pond and knocking over the pots untill I put Chester in my pond. And I have no problems now. And I do not have to deal with a net making my pond not pretty. lol
                            And I have not lost any fish eighter.
                            Carol/Rainbow Rose
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 9:22 AM
                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: algae eaters

                            Well I'm not trying to keep a tank that is spotless. I understand that some algae is beneficial to the fish. I do like to actually see my fish, which is why I'm so frustrated with the current condition of the tank, the medicine for the fungus turns the water bright green.  I'm even thinking of getting rid of my pleco altogether when he gets a little bigger, because Mollies are algae eaters as well. (I didn't know this until they kept stealing the algae tabs I bought to feed the pleco.) My mother has a koi pond in her front yard (minus the koi, the neighbors animals kept eating them so she stopped buying them.) and I've seen references to plecos surviving in outdoor ponds. So I'm thinking of keeping the pleco, making sure he's healthy and the weather has warmed up (LOL) and giving him to mom.
                             
                            Incidentally, does anyone have any tips on keeping fish in an outdoor pond safe from other animals? I'm sure my mom would love to get fish in there again, but she gets so frustrated when cats and dogs go fishing and all of her effort goes to waste. She's got great water plants in there now.
                             
                             Erin
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                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 513 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
                            Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
                            Attachments :
                              I don't know, Kelly, but if you find out please let us know. :) I know that I'm looking to find some straight answers as well. :D 
                               
                               Erin
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                              -------Original Message-------
                               
                              Date: 01/27/04 12:06:25
                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                               
                               
                              Does anyone have any suggestions as to how often and how much aquarium salt to add to established tanks that have already had salt added??
                               
                              Thanks so much in advance for any advice!
                              Kelly
                               
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                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 514 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/27/2004
                              Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
                              this really depends on the type of fish. what kind of fish are you
                              asking about?
                              amalthea
                              On Jan 27, 2004, at 3:04 PM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                              > I don't know, Kelly, but if you find out please let us know. :) I know
                              > that I'm looking to find some straight answers as well. :D 
                              >  
                              >  Erin
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                              > -------Original Message-------
                              >  
                              > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: 01/27/04 12:06:25
                              > To: undisclosed-recipients@...
                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                              >  
                              >  
                              > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how often and how much aquarium
                              > salt to add to established tanks that have already had salt added??
                              >  
                              > Thanks so much in advance for any advice!
                              > Kelly
                              >  
                              >
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                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 515 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
                              Subject: Re: algae eaters
                               Hi Erin,
                               
                                 We have an outdoor pond in our packyard and have never had a problem with animals getting our Koi or any other fish.  How deep is the pond? Is there an area deep enough for them to go an hide?  We have one spot that is 3 feet deep and the rest varies from that to 18". 
                               
                              Last summer we put 2 very small pleco's in the pond, and when we went to take them out in the fall. ( they can not survive water temps below about 60) they were HUGE.... 12 and 14" long..... and that was just from May-Sept.   Our LFS was more than happy to buy them from us and wants to put a few in the pond this spring and he will come down and fish them out in the fall...  Sooo they do well in ponds, but be sure to get them out before the water gets to cold.. depending on where you live of course.. ( I happen to be in cold and snowy Upstate NY)
                               
                              Kelly
                               
                              -------Original Message-------
                               
                              Date: 01/27/2004 11:10:03 AM
                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: algae eaters
                               
                              Well I'm not trying to keep a tank that is spotless. I understand that some algae is beneficial to the fish. I do like to actually see my fish, which is why I'm so frustrated with the current condition of the tank, the medicine for the fungus turns the water bright green.  I'm even thinking of getting rid of my pleco altogether when he gets a little bigger, because Mollies are algae eaters as well. (I didn't know this until they kept stealing the algae tabs I bought to feed the pleco.) My mother has a koi pond in her front yard (minus the koi, the neighbors animals kept eating them so she stopped buying them.) and I've seen references to plecos surviving in outdoor ponds. So I'm thinking of keeping the pleco, making sure he's healthy and the weather has warmed up (LOL) and giving him to mom.
                               
                              Incidentally, does anyone have any tips on keeping fish in an outdoor pond safe from other animals? I'm sure my mom would love to get fish in there again, but she gets so frustrated when cats and dogs go fishing and all of her effort goes to waste. She's got great water plants in there now.
                               
                               Erin
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                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 516 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
                              Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
                              Attachments :
                                Well I, personally, am trying to find out how much salt Mollies need. I keep seeing references to them preferring their water to be a little brackish. Even the Petsmart site recommends adding aquarium salt to their tank, but they mention "Mollies prefer a little more salt", but don't specify how much. Also they don't mention how much we'd have to put in when we did partial water changes, etc. It's very confusing. 
                                 
                                 Erin
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                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/04 15:50:20
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                this really depends on the type of fish. what kind of fish are you
                                asking about?
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                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 517 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: good link for common sense info
                                this link will give you some good, basic information about salt content
                                and some basic "common sense" info for tanks of all kinds...

                                http://www.hongtai.com.sg/tips.htm

                                good luck with all of your tanks!
                                amalthea
                                http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
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                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 518 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 Hi Amalthea,
                                 
                                   Our community tanks have gourami's, swordtails, mollies, a tri colored shark, bleeding heart tetra's, head and tail lights (not sure of their real name)  silver dollars, black neons, albino corycats and a black ghost knife.
                                 
                                I also have a 29 gallon all black and white tank..... that is ALL mollies.. black, white and dalmation as well as fry.
                                 
                                As well as my 3 "baby" tanks as I breed and raise guppies, swordtails and mollies for our LFS owner who just so happens to be on vacation for 2 more weeks and left help in the store that can barely run the register, much less help me with fish.. LOL     However it IS their 25 anniversary cruise, so I will Excuse him for this one... LOL   The babies range in age from a week old to 2 months old.
                                 
                                I go in each Wednesday and pick out whatever fish are VERY pregnant... He usually has them all ready but these people that are running the store for him just hand me the nets when I come in on Wednesdays... LOL
                                 
                                Hope this helps you to help me..
                                kelly
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/2004 03:43:39 PM
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                this really depends on the type of fish. what kind of fish are you
                                asking about?
                                amalthea
                                On Jan 27, 2004, at 3:04 PM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                 
                                > I don't know, Kelly, but if you find out please let us know. :) I know
                                > that I'm looking to find some straight answers as well. :D 
                                >  
                                >  Erin
                                > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
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                                > -------Original Message-------
                                >  
                                > Date: 01/27/04 12:06:25
                                > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                >  
                                >  
                                > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how often and how much aquarium
                                > salt to add to established tanks that have already had salt added??
                                >  
                                > Thanks so much in advance for any advice!
                                > Kelly
                                >  
                                >
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                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 519 From: Moon Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Digest Number 89
                                One rounded tablespoon to each 5 gallons for live bearers like guppies,
                                mollies, swordtails etc.
                                http://209.15.53.70/techsheet.asp?product_id=66
                                You don't have to use salt marketed for aquariums, the salt you find at your
                                grocery store will work just as well BUT make sure it is uniodized. Iodized
                                salt is toxic to fish.

                                >
                                > Message: 12
                                > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:55:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                > From: "~~Kelly~~" <Dreamz64@...>
                                > Subject: Adding Salt to tanks?
                                >
                                > Hi there,
                                >
                                > Everyone talks of adding salt and how much to the tank, but I have not
                                been
                                > able to find any information on how much to add if any with water changes
                                > etc.
                                >
                                > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how often and how much aquarium
                                salt
                                > to add to established tanks that have already had salt added??
                                >
                                > Thanks so much in advance for any advice!
                                > Kelly
                                >
                                >
                                > [This message contained attachments]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 520 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
                                Personally  i think that Mollies do not "need" salt. I have kept and bred Mollies for years and have never added salt to the water. I believe that people make them be what they want them to be. I have had no real proof that Mollies kept in brackish water are any different to Mollies in freshwater.
                                 
                                The only thing that i agree with the salt issue is  a salt bath, for really ill fish, it worked for me but then again it might not work with others.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Sarah
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 27/01/2004 21:23:02
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                Well I, personally, am trying to find out how much salt Mollies need. I keep seeing references to them preferring their water to be a little brackish. Even the Petsmart site recommends adding aquarium salt to their tank, but they mention "Mollies prefer a little more salt", but don't specify how much. Also they don't mention how much we'd have to put in when we did partial water changes, etc. It's very confusing. 
                                 
                                 Erin
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                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/04 15:50:20
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                this really depends on the type of fish. what kind of fish are you
                                asking about?
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 521 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: General advice to a newbie please
                                Also, I would avoid Happy Widow Tetras or Disco Glassfish (or anything
                                with "disco" in their name....) All artificially coloured!!!!


                                On 14 Jan 2004, at 15:51, amalthea23 wrote:

                                > i would avoid any fish called "painted" or any freshwater fish that
                                > comes in either garrish neon or bright pastel colors. it's generally
                                > easy to tell the difference between the beautiful natural colors of
                                > fish available (think neon tetra and green tiger barb) and the man made
                                > type (painted glass fish, jelly bean parrot, "holiday" fish (i.e. tanks
                                > full of red and green fish around xmas and pastel ones around easter.)
                                > the best way to keep companies from torturing fish is to destroy the
                                > market for them. the exception for this would be those "glow fish"
                                > which have had their colors altered on the molecular level before they
                                > are "born" and are not tortured. they have simply had jellyfish dna
                                > inserted into their own which allows them a certain phosphorescent
                                > quality.
                                > amalthea
                                > On Jan 14, 2004, at 8:35 AM, snowdrift52003 wrote:
                                >
                                > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23 (i
                                > > would recommend you not buying the ones most
                                > > > carry which are called "jelly bean" parrots, as those are
                                > > artificially
                                > > > dyed and the process is extremely inhumane)
                                > >
                                > > Eeew. Any other kinds to avoid?
                                > >
                                > > Sierra
                                > >
                                > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                > religion....
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                >  
                                > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >  
                                > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                >
                                >
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 522 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: algae
                                The algae in my tank is gone! Last week I discovered it and went and got two Siamese algae eaters, IM assuming they are the ones whom ate it? and I still dont know how I got the algae, my tank is nit in direct sunlight, I dont leave the light on a lot and I only feed my fish in the am.
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 523 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                 Sarah,
                                 
                                What exactly is a salt bath and how do you do this? I have heard it mentioned MANY times, but have no idea what you are all talking about!
                                 
                                Thank you!
                                Kelly
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/2004 05:21:02 PM
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                Personally  i think that Mollies do not "need" salt. I have kept and bred Mollies for years and have never added salt to the water. I believe that people make them be what they want them to be. I have had no real proof that Mollies kept in brackish water are any different to Mollies in freshwater.
                                 
                                The only thing that i agree with the salt issue is  a salt bath, for really ill fish, it worked for me but then again it might not work with others.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Sarah
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 27/01/2004 21:23:02
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                Well I, personally, am trying to find out how much salt Mollies need. I keep seeing references to them preferring their water to be a little brackish. Even the Petsmart site recommends adding aquarium salt to their tank, but they mention "Mollies prefer a little more salt", but don't specify how much. Also they don't mention how much we'd have to put in when we did partial water changes, etc. It's very confusing. 
                                 
                                 Erin
                                Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                 
                                Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/04 15:50:20
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                this really depends on the type of fish. what kind of fish are you
                                asking about?
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 524 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
                                HI Kelly,
                                 
                                We basically we had a mollie full of everything (ick, fugus, pop eye). We couldn't bear to see her like that anymore so we read on a website that we should get some water dilut a small ammount of salt into it and bath her in it. We weren't sure of this but it was either try it or lose her anyway. So we did and she started to get better within 24 hours her eyes had gone done and both the fungus and ick were less as well. 
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Sarah & Tony
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 28/01/2004 00:14:07
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                 
                                 Sarah,
                                 
                                What exactly is a salt bath and how do you do this? I have heard it mentioned MANY times, but have no idea what you are all talking about!
                                 
                                Thank you!
                                Kelly
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/2004 05:21:02 PM
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                Personally  i think that Mollies do not "need" salt. I have kept and bred Mollies for years and have never added salt to the water. I believe that people make them be what they want them to be. I have had no real proof that Mollies kept in brackish water are any different to Mollies in freshwater.
                                 
                                The only thing that i agree with the salt issue is  a salt bath, for really ill fish, it worked for me but then again it might not work with others.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Sarah
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 27/01/2004 21:23:02
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                Well I, personally, am trying to find out how much salt Mollies need. I keep seeing references to them preferring their water to be a little brackish. Even the Petsmart site recommends adding aquarium salt to their tank, but they mention "Mollies prefer a little more salt", but don't specify how much. Also they don't mention how much we'd have to put in when we did partial water changes, etc. It's very confusing. 
                                 
                                 Erin
                                Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                 
                                Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/04 15:50:20
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                this really depends on the type of fish. what kind of fish are you
                                asking about?
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 525 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Do any of you have problems
                                We had that problem with the nursery, A pair of tights cut up and tied to the filter worked a treat :D 
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Sarah & Tony
                                 
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 27/01/2004 17:40:13
                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Do any of you have problems
                                 
                                with your little fish (like tetras) getting stuck in your filter?  I
                                wonder if I should cover the filter oles with netting or something. 
                                I came home last night and one of my tetras was missing and I blaimed
                                my Betta Bob.  And after my 4 year old repeated "Shame on you Bob,
                                leave the little guys alone" for 5 minutes...I realized the tetra was
                                stuck in the filter.

                                ~Cyndy




                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                 
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 526 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Do any of you have problems
                                Hi,
                                If you're talking about a pre-filter for a trickle filter, I bought the plastic-frame with a net, for keeping fry separated from the rest of the fish, and raised it under the pre-filter so the top was as far above the edge of the pre-filter as possible. I used rubber-bands coursed and looped through holes on the top-rear frame, and tightened the bands over the two adjustment screws for the hang-on pre-filter.
                                The other means I've used for preventing fry damage, are mentioned in my previous email.
                                Joe Pascavage
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 527 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Do any of you have problems
                                Hi,
                                I've used the cylindrical 'Jungle-Labs' sponge filter over the filter-intake tubes when babies are present. Tetra's sponge filters can be trimmed and bored (to mnake a hole to accomodate the intake tube). 'Jungles' sponges have smaller cells than 'Tetras', and that can be an advantage when the fry are very small.
                                Joe Pascavage
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 528 From: Sarah Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: algae
                                If none of them are the reason then maybe the bulb in your tank is too bright. I have had the same problem 
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Sarah
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 27/01/2004 23:52:26
                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] algae
                                 
                                The algae in my tank is gone! Last week I discovered it and went and got two Siamese algae eaters, IM assuming they are the ones whom ate it? and I still dont know how I got the algae, my tank is nit in direct sunlight, I dont leave the light on a lot and I only feed my fish in the am.


                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                 
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 529 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
                                Thanks so much Sarah!     I had no idea what a salt bath meant... I have heard how successful they are with sick fish, but didn't want to assume!
                                 
                                hugs,
                                   Kelly 
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/2004 07:24:59 PM
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                HI Kelly,
                                 
                                We basically we had a mollie full of everything (ick, fugus, pop eye). We couldn't bear to see her like that anymore so we read on a website that we should get some water dilut a small ammount of salt into it and bath her in it. We weren't sure of this but it was either try it or lose her anyway. So we did and she started to get better within 24 hours her eyes had gone done and both the fungus and ick were less as well. 
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Sarah & Tony
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 28/01/2004 00:14:07
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                 
                                 Sarah,
                                 
                                What exactly is a salt bath and how do you do this? I have heard it mentioned MANY times, but have no idea what you are all talking about!
                                 
                                Thank you!
                                Kelly
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/2004 05:21:02 PM
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                Personally  i think that Mollies do not "need" salt. I have kept and bred Mollies for years and have never added salt to the water. I believe that people make them be what they want them to be. I have had no real proof that Mollies kept in brackish water are any different to Mollies in freshwater.
                                 
                                The only thing that i agree with the salt issue is  a salt bath, for really ill fish, it worked for me but then again it might not work with others.
                                 
                                Regards
                                 
                                Sarah
                                 
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 27/01/2004 21:23:02
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                Well I, personally, am trying to find out how much salt Mollies need. I keep seeing references to them preferring their water to be a little brackish. Even the Petsmart site recommends adding aquarium salt to their tank, but they mention "Mollies prefer a little more salt", but don't specify how much. Also they don't mention how much we'd have to put in when we did partial water changes, etc. It's very confusing. 
                                 
                                 Erin
                                Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                 
                                Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                -------Original Message-------
                                 
                                Date: 01/27/04 15:50:20
                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Adding Salt to tanks?
                                 
                                this really depends on the type of fish. what kind of fish are you
                                asking about?
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 530 From: crazyj3262 Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Adding Salt to tanks?
                                Hi Kelly & every one else

                                I have always used the 1 tablesppon for 10 gallons and if i did a
                                water change of 10 gallons I always added another table spoon 1
                                thing to remember is if you are just toping the tank off DO NOT!!!!!
                                add any salt. Salt will not evaporate like water does so if your
                                just topping the tank off no salt is needed If you wanted, you
                                could get a HYDROMETER used to check salinity for marine they cost
                                around $6.00, but personal I dont use 1 becouse salinity in brackish
                                water isnt that critcal. Becouse in nature brackish water is where a
                                freshwater stream emptys out in to the ocean so the salinity isnt
                                constant.
                                Hope this helps sum.
                                Jim
















                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                <Dreamz64@t...> wrote:
                                > Hi there,
                                >
                                > Everyone talks of adding salt and how much to the tank, but I
                                have not been
                                > able to find any information on how much to add if any with water
                                changes
                                > etc.
                                >
                                > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how often and how much
                                aquarium salt
                                > to add to established tanks that have already had salt added??
                                >
                                > Thanks so much in advance for any advice!
                                > Kelly
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 531 From: Cyndy Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re: Do any of you have problems
                                Thanks!

                                ~Cyndy

                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
                                <sarah@f...> wrote:
                                > We had that problem with the nursery, A pair of tights cut up and
                                tied to
                                > the filter worked a treat :D
                                >
                                > Regards
                                >
                                > Sarah & Tony
                                >
                                >
                                > -------Original Message-------
                                >
                                > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: 27/01/2004 17:40:13
                                > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Do any of you have
                                problems
                                >
                                > with your little fish (like tetras) getting stuck in your filter?
                                I
                                > wonder if I should cover the filter oles with netting or
                                something.
                                > I came home last night and one of my tetras was missing and I
                                blaimed
                                > my Betta Bob. And after my 4 year old repeated "Shame on you Bob,
                                > leave the little guys alone" for 5 minutes...I realized the tetra
                                was
                                > stuck in the filter.
                                >
                                > ~Cyndy
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 532 From: crazyj3262 Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Salt in Tanks
                                Hi All

                                As far as adding salt to tanks I use 1 tablespoon for 10 gallons,
                                and if I do a water change of say 5 gallons I add ½ tablespoon. If
                                I
                                just top the tank off I DO NOT add any salt since salt does not
                                evaporate like water does. One thing to remember is that brackish
                                water salinity does not have to be exact since in nature brackish
                                water is formed where a freshwater stream empties into an ocean so
                                the salinity is never constant. If you are worried about it you can
                                always get a hydrometer like what the marine people use to check
                                their tanks with. Another thing about adding salt to tanks I have
                                been told that it helps to prevent ICK. Which the tanks that I do
                                have salt in I very seldom have a problem with ICK

                                Hope this helps
                                James
                                P.S Check out my new web site http://s93076122.onlinehome.us/
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 533 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: (no subject)
                                for salt baths (and actually, this is how you should introduce any salt
                                to the tank) you can also take the normal amount of salt you'd
                                introduce into the tank and place it in a clean glass cup inside the
                                tank. this keeps the fish from directly touching the salt and allows
                                for the fish to control how much is comfortable for them, exposure
                                wise. for goldfish and the like you can do this and you'll often see
                                them playing in the water directly over the cup, they seem to enjoy it.
                                amalthea

                                http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                religion....
                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 534 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
                                Subject: Re:
                                Attachments :
                                   And this would explain the purpose of the cups inside the tanks at the pet store... Thanks for the info, Amalthea!!
                                   
                                   Erin
                                  Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                  MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                  AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                   
                                  Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                  -------Original Message-------
                                   
                                  Date: 01/27/04 22:34:17
                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                   
                                    you can also take the normal amount of salt you'd
                                  introduce into the tank and place it in a clean glass cup inside the
                                  tank.
                                  ____________________________________________________
                                    IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 535 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
                                  Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re: algae eaters OUTDOOR PONDS
                                  Attachments :
                                     
                                    OUTDOOR PONDS:  I gots all kinds of ideas on that one!  :)  We also have a koi pond.  small one., 2,000 gal.. One idea of which sounds nuts.. never done it.. but heard good success stories.. if all else fails.. you can buy coyote urine.  Don't ask how they get it LMAO.. I didn't ask.. don't want to know.  Cotton balls.. soaked in it throughout the yard.  animals stay away.  no joke.
                                     
                                    You can also try electric fences. around the perimeter of the pond and/or yard.  That's usually very effective.  Can put on a timer to be off when you or children would be home .. yada yada yada.
                                     
                                    They sell motion sensor sprikler systems.. not too costly., but most animals get used to that I think.. plus I'd think it'd get annoying walking in the yard and forgetting to turn it off LOL.  cats may not like it.. but haven't heard of those being very effective on many other animals.
                                     
                                    if you have birds .. like blue heron we have here where I live.. they will sit like a stick in the water.. or at edge of pond for HOURS upon HOURS til the fish shows up. and gulp there it goes... for those., I've seen people string fishing line accross the pond's surface in a gride pattern.  My friend has a very shallow pond.. and this method works for him.. used to have his fish get gobbled up all the time, now he's had the same fish for nearly ten years.. they're big buggers.. They also sell some sorta net thingy.. but I don't know how that works... seems like you wouldn't have the opporunity to get close to your fish.  We are almost able to hand feed our Koi.  They are the neatest things.
                                     
                                    Raccoons.  Now them are the worst.  USUALLY they don't dive.., but sum do swim.  I've head of people sinking a PVC pipe at bottom of pond.. about 3 feet long or whatever.. maybe a couple of them if you have a few fish.  Koi CAN be smart.. survival of the fittest it is the game though.. buy a few small ones three for $20 or whatever.  The smart ones will go hide in the PVC tube., the coons MAY dive., but typically won't stay down long enough to wait for the fish to come out of the safety of the pvc tube thingy.  Then if you have an electric fence.. mowwahhahahha ! .. naww.. dunno bout that.. anyway., this method usually provides a 33% survival rate.  And once that one Koi knows what to do., he'll last a very long time.  Having a pond 5' deep.. (yeah., it's a lot of digging!) can prove to provide adequate safety as well.. but that tip isn't worth much if the pond is already made :)  unless yea wanna spend another summer diggin! LOL
                                     
                                    If you are interested in other ideas or you've tried some and want suggestions., feel free to get hold of me.  Have researched this one to death as we have lots of critters where we live.
                                     
                                    Hopefully some of that will give you some good ideas to start with.
                                     
                                    OH!.. the one thing we did with our pond.. WALLS STRAIGHT DOWN.. none of that step bs.  If you want plants or whatever.. set them on bricks in the water in a bucket or whatever.. we have no plants in our pond.. we have a plant garden bog filter thingy off to the side of the pond where water filters into the pond from the bog garden.  Animals THRIVE off that step system that most people use.  It's asking for trouble.  Animals find a way to sit on the step in the water.. just gives them a great advantage they wouldn't have if you dug walls straight down.
                                     
                                    Oh.. and if she wants to experiment.. they sell a goldfish lookin' thing called a shubunkin.  Looks much like a Koi in color some of them., but heck of a lot cheaper to 'test' with.
                                     
                                    - Shawn
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:22 AM
                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: algae eaters

                                    Well I'm not trying to keep a tank that is spotless. I understand that some algae is beneficial to the fish. I do like to actually see my fish, which is why I'm so frustrated with the current condition of the tank, the medicine for the fungus turns the water bright green.  I'm even thinking of getting rid of my pleco altogether when he gets a little bigger, because Mollies are algae eaters as well. (I didn't know this until they kept stealing the algae tabs I bought to feed the pleco.) My mother has a koi pond in her front yard (minus the koi, the neighbors animals kept eating them so she stopped buying them.) and I've seen references to plecos surviving in outdoor ponds. So I'm thinking of keeping the pleco, making sure he's healthy and the weather has warmed up (LOL) and giving him to mom.
                                     
                                    Incidentally, does anyone have any tips on keeping fish in an outdoor pond safe from other animals? I'm sure my mom would love to get fish in there again, but she gets so frustrated when cats and dogs go fishing and all of her effort goes to waste. She's got great water plants in there now.
                                     
                                     Erin
                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                     
                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                    ____________________________________________________
                                      IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here


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                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 536 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/27/2004
                                    Subject: Re: algae eaters
                                    Attachments :
                                       
                                      OUTDOOR POND P.S.
                                       
                                      oh., and you have to remember., that whatever other people tell you to do coz it works for them.. you have to remember that your situation is ALWAYS usually different.  Even from one neighborhood in your city to another.  Different animals, different turfs.. different problems.  So best is to figure out what animals it is.
                                       
                                      I myself though.. would try the PVC pipe.. or some sorta hideout.. it usually works for most.  and it's cheap!
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:22 AM
                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: algae eaters

                                      Well I'm not trying to keep a tank that is spotless. I understand that some algae is beneficial to the fish. I do like to actually see my fish, which is why I'm so frustrated with the current condition of the tank, the medicine for the fungus turns the water bright green.  I'm even thinking of getting rid of my pleco altogether when he gets a little bigger, because Mollies are algae eaters as well. (I didn't know this until they kept stealing the algae tabs I bought to feed the pleco.) My mother has a koi pond in her front yard (minus the koi, the neighbors animals kept eating them so she stopped buying them.) and I've seen references to plecos surviving in outdoor ponds. So I'm thinking of keeping the pleco, making sure he's healthy and the weather has warmed up (LOL) and giving him to mom.
                                       
                                      Incidentally, does anyone have any tips on keeping fish in an outdoor pond safe from other animals? I'm sure my mom would love to get fish in there again, but she gets so frustrated when cats and dogs go fishing and all of her effort goes to waste. She's got great water plants in there now.
                                       
                                       Erin
                                      Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                      MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                      AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                       
                                      Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                      ____________________________________________________
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                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 537 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/27/2004
                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 89
                                      Attachments :
                                        Thank you!  
                                         
                                         Erin
                                        Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                        MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                        AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                         
                                        Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                        -------Original Message-------
                                         
                                        Date: 01/27/04 16:42:48
                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 89
                                         
                                        One rounded tablespoon to each 5 gallons for live bearers like guppies,
                                        mollies, swordtails etc.
                                        http://209.15.53.70/techsheet.asp?product_id=66
                                        ____________________________________________________
                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 538 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/27/2004
                                        Subject: Salted Fish
                                        (repost of message #32 ~ Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:18 am)

                                        Salt (non iodized)

                                        by Ben Plonski - Laguna Koi Ponds

                                        Ordinary sodium chloride is probably the oldest fish medicine known
                                        to man. Salt can be very helpful for treating parasites; however, it
                                        is not a cure all. Most fish have an internal salt concenration of
                                        1.0%. Tap water typically has close to 0.1% salt concentration. An
                                        osmotic gradient exists between the fish and the water that surrounds
                                        it. Through the process of diffusion the fish will lose salt and gain
                                        fresh water. In order to maintain proper cellular functions,
                                        freshwater fish must constanly replace these lost salts and expel
                                        excess fresh water. This is called osmoregulation and requires an
                                        engery expenditure. When salt is added to the pond the koi actually
                                        spend less energy osmoregulating. This saved energy may be saved for
                                        fighting disease. The osmotic balance of some parasites is upset by
                                        salt concentrations as low as .3% to .5%. Basically the parasite's
                                        cell dehydrates. This gives the koi a fighting chance.
                                        Stronger salt baths of 2.5% for 10 minutes, can quickly rid a fish of
                                        many parasites and bacteria or fungus. However, when the fish goes
                                        back into the pond, it may still be in a weakened condition and might
                                        fall prey to a new parasite. This is why it is necessary to medicate
                                        the whole pond properly. Parasiticides or antibiotics may need to be
                                        added concurrently with salt treatments. Concentrations of salt
                                        stronger than 0.3% combined with formalin may be too harsh.

                                        Salt has been used to control string algae at a concentration of .25%
                                        and higher. Killing large quantities of algae with salt may pollute
                                        the pond. Remove most of the algae by hand fisrt to reduce pollution.

                                        Salt concentrations of 0.3% are effective at detoxifying nitrite. The
                                        salt interferes with the nitrite ion exchange at the fish's gills.
                                        Use until nitrites have cycled properly.

                                        A 0.3% concentration is a good all around tonic for strengthening koi
                                        and improving disease treatments. This concentration will stunt your
                                        water lilies and stringy algae. You may choose to treat your fish in
                                        a separate container.

                                        A 1.0% salt concentration is the same salinity as fish blood. This is
                                        called an isotonic solution. Salt does not transfer into or out of
                                        the fish's body. Under normal pond salinities (0.1%) ulcer disease
                                        can cause a loss of internal salts through the open sore. Addition of
                                        1.0% salt to the koi in a separate hospital tank will limit this loss
                                        of internal salts. Limit this concentration to 2 to 4 weeks.

                                        Always adjust salt levels gradually over 3 days to allow the koi time
                                        to adjust. Do not use salt continuously as parasites can become
                                        immune. The beneficial effects will be diminished. Use salt in the
                                        spring as a preventative for disease or when the koi are definitely
                                        sick. Monthly water changes will dilute salt to normal over time.

                                        Note that the salt that should be used is non ionized, often refered
                                        to as Ice Cream Salt or Rock Salt.
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 539 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/27/2004
                                        Subject: Salinity
                                        Salinity
                                        Different rivers, oceans, and seas have different amounts of salt
                                        –
                                        and yes, even freshwater contains some salt. How much salt is
                                        dissolved in the water determines the salinity of a particular water
                                        sample.
                                        Essentially, there are 3 types of water -- low salinity or
                                        freshwater, medium salinity or brackish tidal waters, and high
                                        salinity, which is seawater. And even in seawater, the amount of salt
                                        can vary dramatically.
                                        Water is normally measured as parts per thousand of a liter: seawater
                                        normally has a reading of 35, but salinity is not easy to measure and
                                        has a close relationship with specific gravity (see below). Fish have
                                        evolved to live within specific levels of salinity, and a rise or
                                        fall in the water's salinity can change a fish's osmoregulatory
                                        process, thereby causing stress.
                                        When preparing your saltwater tank you need to calculate the volume
                                        of water needed to fill your aquarium, keeping in mind that décor
                                        takes up space. It is essential that this measurement is accurate. It
                                        is best to premix the salt and water in a separate container,
                                        allowing the salt to dissolve partially before adding to the
                                        aquarium. When doing a water change the salt should be completely
                                        dissolved before being added, so that the proper salinity is reached
                                        immediately. When topping up, only use pure water; no salt is lost
                                        due to evaporation so do not add any.
                                        Check the salinity level of your tank after initial filling and after
                                        every water change and evaporation top up.
                                        Specific Gravity
                                        Measuring specific gravity with a hydrometer is the best way of
                                        checking the salinity of your water; seawater has a specific gravity
                                        reading of between 1.021 and 1.024 at a temperature of 25 degrees
                                        Celsius. Specific gravity alters with temperature, however, so be
                                        sure that you purchase a hydrometer that can make adjustments to
                                        compensate for temperature variation.
                                        To check your specific gravity, read the hydrometer scale where it is
                                        crossed by the surface line of the water. For most tanks, this will
                                        be as above. If the reading is too low, add more pre-mixed "salt"
                                        water; if it is too high, add more freshwater to the tank
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 540 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/27/2004
                                        Subject: Use and Application of Salt in Aquaculture
                                        (re-post of message #33 ~ Date: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:27 am)


                                        Agricultural publication MX0393 â€" Reviewed October 1, 1993
                                        Use and Application of Salt in Aquaculture
                                        L. Swann
                                        Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant Program, Purdue University
                                        S. Fitzgerald, D.V.M.
                                        Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory, Purdue University


                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------



                                        Background
                                        Salt is one of the most commonly used drugs in aquaculture. In fact,
                                        it is sometimes referred to as the aspirin of aquaculture.
                                        Salt, or sodium chloride (NaCl) in its chemical form, is a drug of
                                        low regulatory priority for the United States Food and Drug
                                        Administration and requires no withdrawal time before marketing.

                                        Many forms of salt are used, including table, meat-curing, pickling
                                        and rock salt. Of these, the most commonly used and least expensive
                                        form is the meat-curing variety. When used properly, salt can treat
                                        many external parasites including Costia, Epistylis, Trichodina,
                                        Chilodonella, and the flukes Dactylogyrus and Gyrodactylus. Salt is
                                        used to relieve stress during handling and transport.

                                        A few general guidelines are suggested before any salt treatment is
                                        attempted:


                                        Use sensitive and accurate scales to calculate doses for treatment of
                                        small volumes of water contained in hauling or holding
                                        tanks. "Guesstimating" may only end in disaster.

                                        Know the volume of your ponds, airways, tanks, etc., beforehand. It
                                        is advisable to have those values in a convenient location for
                                        immediate use.

                                        Perform a test treatment on a few fish before attempting a large-
                                        scale treatment. Salt, like other chemicals, reacts differently among
                                        different species and water qualities.

                                        Prepare to remove fish or flush out salt baths with fresh water when
                                        fish show initial signs of stress.

                                        Treatment procedures involve calculating the volume of water to be
                                        treated, calculating salt dosage and choosing the treatment method.
                                        In the case of a specific disease, the corresponding rate of salt for
                                        applications needs to be calculated.

                                        Treatment methods
                                        The method of salt application depends on the disease organism, fish
                                        species, weight and type of aquaculture unit. Treatment methods
                                        include short-term dips, prolonged baths and indefinite treatments.
                                        Dip treatments involve exposing the fish to very strong solutions for
                                        short periods of time, usually 30 seconds to one minute.

                                        Prolonged baths are useful for treating fish in small tanks that can
                                        be flushed quickly. Strong solutions of salt are added to the water.
                                        Fish are held in this salt solution with aeration from 30 to 60
                                        minutes, or until they show signs of stress.

                                        Indefinite treatments are used when transporting, handling fish, or
                                        when dealing with large volumes of water, such as ponds. Low
                                        concentrations of salt can be used indefinitely in ponds.


                                        Calculation of volumes
                                        Calculating tank and pond volume is an important step to effective
                                        salt application in aquaculture. Measurements used to determine
                                        volume are usually in feet and/or inches. The most common shapes of
                                        culture tanks, ponds or raceways are square, rectangular or round.
                                        Square or rectangular pond and tank volumes are calculated similarly
                                        except that an average depth is used for ponds. The method used to
                                        calculate volume of each is given below.


                                        Volume of a square or rectangular raceway, tank or pond.
                                        Volume (Vol.) = length x width x depth
                                        Example 1: A rectangular tank is 12 feet long, 3 feet wide and 3 feet
                                        deep. What is its volume?


                                        Vol. = 12 ft x 3 ft x 3 ft

                                        Vol. = 108 cubic ft (ft3)

                                        Volume of a round tank
                                        Vol.= 3.14 x (radius x radius) x depth
                                        Example 2: A round tank is 12 feet in diameter and 4.5 feet deep.
                                        What is its volume? (Radius = 0.5 x diameter)


                                        Vol. = 3.14 x (6 ft x 6 ft) x 4.5 ft

                                        Vol. = 3.14 x 36 ft2 x 4.5 ft

                                        Vol. = 508.7 ft3

                                        Calculation of dosages
                                        Once the volume is calculated in cubic feet, the gallons are
                                        determined using these conversions:
                                        1 ft3 = 7.48 gallons (gal.)
                                        1 acre-foot (1 surface acre x 1 ft deep) = 325,850 gal.
                                        1 liter (l) = 0.26 gal.
                                        Other useful conversions:
                                        1 pound (lb.) = 454 grams (g)
                                        1,000 g = 1 kilogram (kg)



                                        One of the most commonly used units of measure in aquaculture is the
                                        part per million, commonly referred to as ppm. In percentage
                                        calculations, 1 percent equals 10,000 ppm. The amount of salt added
                                        to various volumes that results in 1 ppm concentrations is listed
                                        below.

                                        1 ppm equals:
                                        2.7 lbs./acre-foot
                                        0.0283 g/ft3
                                        0.00378 g/gal.
                                        1.0 milligram (mg)/L


                                        Example 3: How much salt is needed to make a 2 percent solution using
                                        a prolonged treatment for Dactylogyrus in the round tank used in
                                        Example 2?


                                        2.0 percent = 20,000 ppm

                                        tank volume (gal.) = 508.7 ft3 x 7.48 gal. ft3 = 3,805.1 gal.

                                        salt needed (g) = 0.00378 g/gal. x 3,805.1 gal. x 20,000 = 287,663 g
                                        or 633.6 lbs. (287,663 g divided by 454 g/lb. = 633.6 lbs.)
                                        Example 4: How much salt is needed to make a 0.5 percent solution
                                        using an indefinite treatment in a 100-gal. transport tank?


                                        0.5 percent = 5,000 ppm

                                        Salt needed = 0.00378 g/gal. x 100 gal. x 5,000 ppm

                                        Salt needed (g) = 1,890 g or 4.2 lbs. (1890 g divided by 454 g/lb. =
                                        4.2 lbs.)

                                        Specific treatment rates
                                        Specific treatments using salt are given in Table 1.
                                        Table 1. Specific treatment rates and methods of using salt for
                                        treating various diseases or as a remedial treatment of stress.
                                        Disease Concentration and duration of treatment for control of
                                        disease
                                        External parasites of brood fish 30,000 ppm (3 percent) as a quick
                                        dip (15 seconds) before stocking
                                        External parasites Costia, Epistylis, Trichodina, and Chilodonella
                                        and the flukes Dactylogyrus and Gyrodactylus 10,000-30,000 ppm (1-3
                                        percent) prolonged treatment (30 minutes or until fish show signs of
                                        stress) or 1,000-2,000 ppm in hauling tanks as an indefinite
                                        treatment
                                        Stress during transport and while handling Indefinite treatment using
                                        1,000-10,000 ppm (0.1-1.0 percent)




                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        ----------
                                        To order, request MX393, Use and Application of Salt in Aquaculture
                                        (25 cents).
                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        ----------
                                        Copyright 1999 University of Missouri. Published by University
                                        Extension, University of Missouri-Columbia. Please use our feedback
                                        form for questions or comments about this or any other publication
                                        contained on the Explore site.
                                        Issued in furtherance of Cooperative Extension Work Acts of May 8 and
                                        June 30, 1914, in cooperation with the United States Department of
                                        Agriculture. Ronald J. Turner, Director, Cooperative Extension
                                        Service, University of Missouri and Lincoln University, Columbia,
                                        Missouri 65211. • University Extension does not discriminate on
                                        the
                                        basis of race, color, national origin, sex, religion, age, disability
                                        or status as a Vietnam-era veteran in employment or programs. If you
                                        have special needs as addressed by the Americans with Disabilities
                                        Act and need this publication in an alternative format, write ADA
                                        Officer, Extension and Agricultural Information, 1-98 Agriculture
                                        Building, Columbia, MO 65211, or call (573) 882-7216. Reasonable
                                        efforts will be made to accommodate your special needs.
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 543 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: Salinity levels of 'freshwater' tanks
                                        Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to check the salt concentration
                                        level of my aquariums. I realize it is not technically "freshwater"
                                        once I add salt, rather it's 'brackish', but the only device I've
                                        seen to measure the salinity is intended for salt water. I've been
                                        occasionally adding approx. 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. I use Reverse
                                        Osmosis water and somewhere read that salt is needed for electrolytes
                                        as well as to rid of parasites. I breed Mollies, Platies, Swordtails
                                        & Guppies, as well as keep gobies, I've read that these prefer
                                        slightly brackish water.

                                        my main question is - How can I tell if I already have enough and/or
                                        too much salt disolved in the water?

                                        what kinds of salt do other people use? I've been buying the Doc
                                        Wellfish's brand at the pet stores.
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 544 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: Re: Attn: Aaron!
                                        Hi Kelly,

                                        I use a FujiFilm FinePix4800Zoom digital camera, its a few years old,
                                        on a Tripod or a steady surface and the timer to prevent hand shake
                                        when pushing the shutter button. I wait till night so the only light
                                        is directly above the tank to prevent reflections. Macro and manual
                                        focus as well as slow swimmers. The fish are either curious or hungry
                                        and seem to stare at me as if hoping I will feed them while taking
                                        the photos.

                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly"
                                        <Dreamz64@t...> wrote:
                                        > WOW.. I just got around to looking at all of the pictures you have
                                        > posted.. Is there any way that you could maybe change the
                                        description
                                        > or something so we can tell what the fish and plants are?? I know
                                        > your busy, but it was just a thought!
                                        >
                                        > ALSO... HOW do you get such GREAT pictures with no reflection or
                                        > anything?? I would love to take and post pics, but you would not be
                                        > able to tell what was what when I take them. : )
                                        >
                                        > Thanks,
                                        > Kelly
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 545 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: I apologize for the duplicates, not all messages are getting posted
                                        please read the Virus warning at the top of the screen

                                        Attention: Important service announcement from Yahoo! Groups

                                        it might explain the delay with the posts
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 546 From: Short Jonathan Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: I WANT BABIES! lol
                                        I really want my fish-ies to breed, to to be honest I'm dumb when it comes
                                        to the sexes of fish.
                                        Also with what I've been reading on here Loaches and Fish eggs are'nt a good
                                        mix.
                                        So please, please, anyone with any tips at all I'd be really hrateful.
                                        And I when I say tips I mean, REALLY simple steps from start to end lol.
                                        Anybody?


                                        Jonny Short
                                        Churchill
                                        Avalon Court
                                        Nottingham Retainers
                                        3rd Floor
                                        <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...




                                        ___________________________________________________________________________


                                        This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for the
                                        individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended
                                        recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender. You
                                        should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and should
                                        not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other
                                        person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
                                        Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you.

                                        Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
                                        England.

                                        Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                        1DP.
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 547 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: Re: I WANT BABIES! lol
                                        Hi Jonny,

                                        What kind of fish do you have/are you trying to breed?

                                        Livebearers are a no brainer and good starter fish to learn about
                                        breeding. Cichlids are popular egg layers.
                                        My favorites are Bettas - they have an elaborate mating ritual and
                                        the male builds a bubble nest that he puts the eggs in and takes care
                                        of.
                                        Try to duplicate conditons in Nature that would encorage breeding.
                                        Large water changes up to 50% might signal the rainy season, plus it
                                        will help with keeping the water quality at its best. Feed lots of
                                        LIVE foods to fatten up the Females with eggs.

                                        Hope that Helps,
                                        Aaron

                                        (just curious - its 1:15AM Wednesday here in San Francisco,
                                        California - what time is it over in England?)

                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Short Jonathan
                                        <jonathan.short@c...> wrote:
                                        > I really want my fish-ies to breed, to to be honest I'm dumb when
                                        it comes
                                        > to the sexes of fish.
                                        > Also with what I've been reading on here Loaches and Fish eggs
                                        are'nt a good
                                        > mix.
                                        > So please, please, anyone with any tips at all I'd be really
                                        hrateful.
                                        > And I when I say tips I mean, REALLY simple steps from start to end
                                        lol.
                                        > Anybody?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Jonny Short
                                        > Churchill
                                        > Avalon Court
                                        > Nottingham Retainers
                                        > 3rd Floor
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 548 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: Re: Attn: Aaron!
                                        Hi Kelly,

                                        I use an older digital camera, FujiFilm FinePix4800Zoom, and just
                                        take hundreds of pictures using every possible setting. Trial and
                                        error, its only affordable w/ digital, no way I could do it using
                                        film w/ all the pics I've taken. Every once in awhile I get lucky and
                                        they are not too blurry.
                                        Best way I've seen so far is use a tripod or set the camera down
                                        somplace steady and use the timer, that eliminates any shake of the
                                        hand when pushing on the shutter button. Also, I typically wait till
                                        night when there is no ambient light to cause reflections, most
                                        reflections can be eliminated by not having any lights on except
                                        directly over the aquarium, then use the supressed Flash mode. Most
                                        of the close ups are done in Macro, some are just zoomed in after and
                                        cropped n cut. I use the Manual Focus to cue in on the desired
                                        object just past the glass. The faster fish, like Zebra Danios, are
                                        almost impossible to get a clear picture of. Most of the fish are
                                        real curious and/or hoping if they stare at me for awhile I might
                                        feed them some more, and stay still long enough to get a decent shot.
                                        The thing I have not figured out yet is how to get the glass
                                        perfectly clean like in Amanos photos.

                                        I tried originally uploading 6 at once, but my cpu and connection are
                                        so slow the server timed out. I had to upload 1 at a time and didn't
                                        put the descriptions back in each yet.
                                        I'm in the middle of transfering all my pictures to another computer
                                        to burn onto CDs, then I will find a broadband connection to upload
                                        them. (This computer is very old Win95 and very slow dial up
                                        28.8modem)

                                        Thanks,
                                        Aaron

                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly"
                                        <Dreamz64@t...> wrote:
                                        > WOW.. I just got around to looking at all of the pictures you have
                                        > posted.. Is there any way that you could maybe change the
                                        description
                                        > or something so we can tell what the fish and plants are?? I know
                                        > your busy, but it was just a thought!
                                        >
                                        > ALSO... HOW do you get such GREAT pictures with no reflection or
                                        > anything?? I would love to take and post pics, but you would not be
                                        > able to tell what was what when I take them. : )
                                        >
                                        > Thanks,
                                        > Kelly
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 549 From: Jonathan Short Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: babies
                                        Thanks for that Aaron.
                                        I have Neon's (blue and black)Danios, Harlequins, and 2 loaches.
                                        Should I consider sticking certain types in certain tanks etc play
                                        Barry white and all that? hahahaha
                                        Oh by the way, It was 9.17am here in England when you replied to
                                        that. I did'nt reply straight away I'm in training for something else
                                        which I'll never use which isn't anything new lol
                                        Thanks for the advice, It's water change tonight anyway so I'll sing
                                        amourously to them while I do it lol
                                        :o)
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 550 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: Re: Attn: Aaron!
                                         
                                         Aaron,
                                         
                                         Thank you so much for the great information and also for  adding text to your pictures..... I really appreciate it and am getting ALOT of idea's for my next tanks... LOL    Ya think I am addicted or what?  LOL
                                         
                                        kelly
                                        -------Original Message-------
                                         
                                        Date: 01/28/2004 07:39:40 AM
                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Attn: Aaron!
                                         
                                        Hi Kelly,

                                        I use an older digital camera, FujiFilm FinePix4800Zoom, and just
                                        take hundreds of pictures using every possible setting. Trial and
                                        error, its only affordable w/ digital, no way I could do it using
                                        film w/ all the pics I've taken. Every once in awhile I get lucky and
                                        they are not too blurry.
                                        Best way I've seen so far is use a tripod or set the camera down
                                        somplace steady and use the timer, that eliminates any shake of the
                                        hand when pushing on the shutter button. Also, I typically wait till
                                        night when there is no ambient light to cause reflections, most
                                        reflections can be eliminated by not having any lights on except
                                        directly over the aquarium, then use the supressed Flash mode. Most
                                        of the close ups are done in Macro, some are just zoomed in after and
                                        cropped n cut.  I use the Manual Focus to cue in on the desired
                                        object just past the glass. The faster fish, like Zebra Danios, are
                                        almost impossible to get a clear picture of. Most of the fish are
                                        real curious and/or hoping if they stare at me for awhile I might
                                        feed them some more, and stay still long enough to get a decent shot.
                                        The thing I have not figured out yet is how to get the glass
                                        perfectly clean like in Amanos photos.

                                        I tried originally uploading 6 at once, but my cpu and connection are
                                        so slow the server timed out. I had to upload 1 at a time and didn't
                                        put the descriptions back in each yet.
                                        I'm in the middle of transfering all my pictures to another computer
                                        to burn onto CDs, then I will find a broadband connection to upload
                                        them. (This computer is very old Win95 and very slow dial up
                                        28.8modem)

                                        Thanks,
                                        Aaron

                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly"
                                        <Dreamz64@t...> wrote:
                                        > WOW.. I just got around to looking at all of the pictures you have
                                        > posted.. Is there any way that you could maybe change the
                                        description
                                        > or something so we can tell what the fish and plants are??  I know
                                        > your busy, but it was just a thought!
                                        >
                                        > ALSO... HOW do you get such GREAT pictures with no reflection or
                                        > anything?? I would love to take and post pics, but you would not be
                                        > able to tell what was what when I take them. : )
                                        >
                                        > Thanks,
                                        >   Kelly




                                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                                         
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 551 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
                                        I thought I had resent this message since I had not a any response, but I'm
                                        not finding the resend, so I'll try again. I'm going to add to it since it
                                        was sent several days ago.

                                        I visited a store in College Station while I was there last weekend and they
                                        had the most beautiful fish! Gorgeous baby angels! I wanted them so bad,
                                        but tank is on day 10 of cycling and no ammonia or nitrites so far. When do
                                        you usually start seeing the nitrites and ammonia? I thought the peak was
                                        around 14 days. I started the tank with Stress Coat and Stress Zyme, but
                                        have not put any more chemicals in since day 1.

                                        They also had platys in every color imaginable! I asked if they were
                                        altered in any way and they said no. They do not sell any fish that are
                                        injected or painted in any way. Guarantee for 7 days as long as you follow
                                        their recommendations and don't put fish in with others they said not to.
                                        Is this a good guarantee?

                                        How will platys do with the black skirted tetras that are cycling my tank
                                        and then the 2 angels I will add at the end. They recommended putting in
                                        all the platys, then adding the baby angels as they very last fish.

                                        Have ya'll seen platys that are almost as vivid as salt water fish? Red,
                                        orange, pink, yellow, light blue, etc. A real spectrum! I don't want them
                                        if they really have been altered in some way.

                                        TTYL
                                        Mary
                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 552 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/28/2004
                                        Subject: outdoor ponds
                                        Attachments :
                                          Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small town, only about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with the normal neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She lives in southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get cold until December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                           
                                          About bringing in fish from an outdoor pond when cold weather hits ... what sort of temporary housing do you suggest to put them in until the weather gets warm enough for them to go back into the pond? I'm taking notes on all of these outdoor pond tips to give to her the next time I talk to her. :) She doesn't spend much time online (dial up! AGH!) or I'd suggest that she sign up for an outdoor pond specific email group.
                                           
                                           Erin
                                          Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                          MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                          AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                           
                                          Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                          -------Original Message-------
                                           
                                          Date: 01/27/04 23:46:21
                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: algae eaters
                                           
                                           
                                          OUTDOOR POND P.S.
                                           
                                          oh., and you have to remember., that whatever other people tell you to do coz it works for them.. you have to remember that your situation is ALWAYS usually different.  Even from one neighborhood in your city to another.  Different animals, different turfs.. different problems.  So best is to figure out what animals it is.
                                           
                                          I myself though.. would try the PVC pipe.. or some sorta hideout.. it usually works for most.  and it's cheap!
                                           
                                          ____________________________________________________
                                            IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 553 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
                                          Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                          if the pond is at least 18" deep, she can just winter the fist over
                                          right in the pond. we have a very small pond (125 gallons) and our fish
                                          are doing just fine outside even when it went down to 14 below. as long
                                          as you keep an opening in the ice (and NEVER bang on the ice) the fish
                                          do just fine outside...
                                          amalthea
                                          On Jan 28, 2004, at 7:40 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                          > Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small town,
                                          > only about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with
                                          > the normal neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums.
                                          > She lives in southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually
                                          > get cold until December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                          >  
                                          > About bringing in fish from an outdoor pond when cold weather hits ...
                                          > what sort of temporary housing do you suggest to put them in until the
                                          > weather gets warm enough for them to go back into the pond? I'm taking
                                          > notes on all of these outdoor pond tips to give to her the next time I
                                          > talk to her. :) She doesn't spend much time online (dial up! AGH!) or
                                          > I'd suggest that she sign up for an outdoor pond specific email group.
                                          >  
                                          >  Erin
                                          > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                          > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                          > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                          >  
                                          > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                          > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                          > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                          > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site
                                          > http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                          >  
                                          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: 01/27/04 23:46:21
                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: algae eaters
                                          >  
                                          >  
                                          > OUTDOOR POND P.S.
                                          >  
                                          > oh., and you have to remember., that whatever other people tell you to
                                          > do coz it works for them.. you have to remember that your situation is
                                          > ALWAYS usually different.  Even from one neighborhood in your city to
                                          > another.  Different animals, different turfs.. different problems.  So
                                          > best is to figure out what animals it is.
                                          >  
                                          > I myself though.. would try the PVC pipe.. or some sorta hideout.. it
                                          > usually works for most.  and it's cheap!
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          > ____________________________________________________
                                          > <image.tiff> IncrediMail -Email has finally evolved -Click Here
                                          >
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                                          >
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                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                          >  
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                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          >  
                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                          for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                          religion....
                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 554 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 1/28/2004
                                          Subject: Green Swordtail?? and a few more Q's
                                          Attachments :
                                             
                                             Hi there,     I went to my LFS to pick up a few pregnant fish Monday that the owner wanted me to get. ( my weekly trip). He had a Green Swordtail there and she is HUGE... I brought her home and put her right into a birthing net and so far nothing.  I have NEVER seen a green swordtail before... She is a very light green with a red stripe and a light blue belly area...
                                             
                                              The owner seemed really excited about this fish.. Are they rare? Could it just be because she is huge and probably going to have 100 fry??   LOL I tried to call him, but he is out of town until next week, and the other owner is gone for the rest of the month... He left a note like always when hes not there when I pick up the moms and I just got the fish and brought them home.
                                             
                                             So far she is doing great... not stressed at all... is eating well... and is HUGE!! She seems to have a extremely large gravid spot, unless some of this is natural coloring for her. 
                                             
                                            Do I need to do the same with the green swordtail as I do with the others??  
                                             
                                            and one more question.   I have roughly 40 red velvet swordtails that are over a month old and I still can NOT sex these little buggers..... not only do they move very fast and non stop..... but I see no tails starting to form on any of them indicating males... Are they to young yet??  and if so, at what age do I need to seperate them?
                                             
                                            I also have about 50 calico mollies that are over 2 months old and have only been able to sex a few of them... When will they start to breed with each other.. as the last thing I need is babies from my babies..... LOL   I have alot of tanks, but don't need any more at this time.... lol
                                             
                                            thanks in advance for any advice
                                            Kelly
                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 555 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
                                            Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                            that's winter the fish, lol..
                                            On Jan 28, 2004, at 2:16 PM, amalthea23 wrote:

                                            > if the pond is at least 18" deep, she can just winter the fist over
                                            > right in the pond. we have a very small pond (125 gallons) and our fish
                                            > are doing just fine outside even when it went down to 14 below. as long
                                            > as you keep an opening in the ice (and NEVER bang on the ice) the fish
                                            > do just fine outside...
                                            > amalthea
                                            > On Jan 28, 2004, at 7:40 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                            >
                                            >> Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small town,
                                            >> only about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with
                                            >> the normal neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums.
                                            >> She lives in southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually
                                            >> get cold until December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                            >>  
                                            >> About bringing in fish from an outdoor pond when cold weather hits ...
                                            >> what sort of temporary housing do you suggest to put them in until the
                                            >> weather gets warm enough for them to go back into the pond? I'm taking
                                            >> notes on all of these outdoor pond tips to give to her the next time I
                                            >> talk to her. :) She doesn't spend much time online (dial up! AGH!) or
                                            >> I'd suggest that she sign up for an outdoor pond specific email group.
                                            >>  
                                            >>  Erin
                                            >> Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                            >> MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                            >> AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                            >>  
                                            >> Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                            >> ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                            >> http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                            >> Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site
                                            >> http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                            >> -------Original Message-------
                                            >>  
                                            >> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                            >> Date: 01/27/04 23:46:21
                                            >> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                            >> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: algae eaters
                                            >>  
                                            >>  
                                            >> OUTDOOR POND P.S.
                                            >>  
                                            >> oh., and you have to remember., that whatever other people tell you to
                                            >> do coz it works for them.. you have to remember that your situation is
                                            >> ALWAYS usually different.  Even from one neighborhood in your city to
                                            >> another.  Different animals, different turfs.. different problems.  So
                                            >> best is to figure out what animals it is.
                                            >>  
                                            >> I myself though.. would try the PVC pipe.. or some sorta hideout.. it
                                            >> usually works for most.  and it's cheap!
                                            >>  
                                            >>
                                            >> ____________________________________________________
                                            >> <image.tiff> IncrediMail -Email has finally evolved -Click Here
                                            >>
                                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >>
                                            >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                            >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                            >>  
                                            >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            >>  
                                            >> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of
                                            >> Service.
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                            > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                            > religion....
                                            >
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                                            don't be afraid to scream...
                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 556 From: Sarah Date: 1/28/2004
                                            Subject: Re: Green Swordtail?? and a few more Q's
                                            Attachments :
                                               In my experience it takes quite a long time for the male swords to get their "tails". The gonodium will be the first thing you will notice.
                                               
                                              Regards
                                              Sarah
                                               
                                              -------Original Message-------
                                               
                                              Date: 28/01/2004 19:25:52
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Green Swordtail?? and a few more Q's
                                               
                                               
                                               Hi there,     I went to my LFS to pick up a few pregnant fish Monday that the owner wanted me to get. ( my weekly trip). He had a Green Swordtail there and she is HUGE... I brought her home and put her right into a birthing net and so far nothing.  I have NEVER seen a green swordtail before... She is a very light green with a red stripe and a light blue belly area...
                                               
                                                The owner seemed really excited about this fish.. Are they rare? Could it just be because she is huge and probably going to have 100 fry??   LOL I tried to call him, but he is out of town until next week, and the other owner is gone for the rest of the month... He left a note like always when hes not there when I pick up the moms and I just got the fish and brought them home.
                                               
                                               So far she is doing great... not stressed at all... is eating well... and is HUGE!! She seems to have a extremely large gravid spot, unless some of this is natural coloring for her. 
                                               
                                              Do I need to do the same with the green swordtail as I do with the others??  
                                               
                                              and one more question.   I have roughly 40 red velvet swordtails that are over a month old and I still can NOT sex these little buggers..... not only do they move very fast and non stop..... but I see no tails starting to form on any of them indicating males... Are they to young yet??  and if so, at what age do I need to seperate them?
                                               
                                              I also have about 50 calico mollies that are over 2 months old and have only been able to sex a few of them... When will they start to breed with each other.. as the last thing I need is babies from my babies..... LOL   I have alot of tanks, but don't need any more at this time.... lol
                                               
                                              thanks in advance for any advice
                                              Kelly
                                               
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 557 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              Hi Erin,

                                              Shawn here again.

                                              Welll... where we live here.. we don't need to bring them in. Even when it
                                              freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower than about 20�.. rarely in the 10's.
                                              We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the most. And (I believe) that if even
                                              other areas of the country if the pond is deep enough.. (more than I think
                                              2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then they can survive at those lower
                                              levels. Then again.. I haven't ventured out much.. there probably are some
                                              areas of the country where the pond would freeze all the way through? They
                                              also make heaters for ponds... but depending on the pond I suppose that
                                              could be a costly electric bill.

                                              I've been told that even if the water freezes over, you can just leave it
                                              and they'll survive.. but i still crack a big hole in it just for fun. From
                                              what I understand the fish go dormant.. REALLY dormant. Depending on the
                                              temp of the water.. determins how much you feed them. And this would be one
                                              for that "mythbusters" show.. but I've heard a goldfish could freeze in
                                              water.. and then come out of it a week later or whatever. According to
                                              things I've heard it does sound logical., but I wouldn't try it with my 50
                                              yr old Koi!

                                              Even feeding though, they recommend only once a month if that if the temp is
                                              less than 50�, 50 to 60 I think it is.. 2-3 times a week. up in the 70's
                                              once or twice a day or 3-4 times a day. I'm not sure if that varies by
                                              area., but that's the guidelines I follow. I treally helps the pond ..
                                              keeping it clear and clean to not overfeed., yet still keeping the fish
                                              healthy and happy.

                                              We live in a town with about .. oh heck., i dunno 250,000 ppl.. that's the
                                              city area.. i'm in the city, and even here.. we have all them buggers you
                                              were talking about. I'd try them shubunkin goldfish thingies .. or get
                                              three koi and give them a place to hide 3' down or lower with that PVC pipe
                                              or something that a raccoon couldn't get into. You wouldn't believe it, but
                                              I've even seen deer where I live! I'm like.. where in the heck did those
                                              come from! LOL.. It's amazing how the animals live even though we are taking
                                              over... at least we THINK we are.



                                              >From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                              >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:40:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                              >
                                              >Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small town, only
                                              >about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with the normal
                                              >neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She lives in
                                              >southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get cold until
                                              >December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.

                                              _________________________________________________________________
                                              Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up � fast & reliable Internet access with prime
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 558 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for toxic gasses to escape
                                              through when fish are kept in ponds in the winter and under 50, you
                                              shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose the ability to digest food
                                              and it just rots in the water, adding to the water's overall toxicity.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs Hamburg wrote:

                                              > Hi Erin,
                                              >
                                              > Shawn here again.
                                              >
                                              > Welll... where we live here.. we don't need to bring them in. Even
                                              > when it
                                              > freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower than about 20°.. rarely in the
                                              > 10's.
                                              > We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the most. And (I believe) that
                                              > if even
                                              > other areas of the country if the pond is deep enough.. (more than I
                                              > think
                                              > 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then they can survive at those lower
                                              > levels. Then again.. I haven't ventured out much.. there probably are
                                              > some
                                              > areas of the country where the pond would freeze all the way through?
                                              > They
                                              > also make heaters for ponds... but depending on the pond I suppose that
                                              > could be a costly electric bill.
                                              >
                                              > I've been told that even if the water freezes over, you can just leave
                                              > it
                                              > and they'll survive.. but i still crack a big hole in it just for fun.
                                              > From
                                              > what I understand the fish go dormant.. REALLY dormant. Depending on
                                              > the
                                              > temp of the water.. determins how much you feed them. And this would
                                              > be one
                                              > for that "mythbusters" show.. but I've heard a goldfish could freeze in
                                              > water.. and then come out of it a week later or whatever. According to
                                              > things I've heard it does sound logical., but I wouldn't try it with
                                              > my 50
                                              > yr old Koi!
                                              >
                                              > Even feeding though, they recommend only once a month if that if the
                                              > temp is
                                              > less than 50°, 50 to 60 I think it is.. 2-3 times a week. up in the
                                              > 70's
                                              > once or twice a day or 3-4 times a day. I'm not sure if that varies by
                                              > area., but that's the guidelines I follow. I treally helps the pond ..
                                              > keeping it clear and clean to not overfeed., yet still keeping the fish
                                              > healthy and happy.
                                              >
                                              > We live in a town with about .. oh heck., i dunno 250,000 ppl.. that's
                                              > the
                                              > city area.. i'm in the city, and even here.. we have all them buggers
                                              > you
                                              > were talking about. I'd try them shubunkin goldfish thingies .. or get
                                              > three koi and give them a place to hide 3' down or lower with that PVC
                                              > pipe
                                              > or something that a raccoon couldn't get into. You wouldn't believe
                                              > it, but
                                              > I've even seen deer where I live! I'm like.. where in the heck did
                                              > those
                                              > come from! LOL.. It's amazing how the animals live even though we are
                                              > taking
                                              > over... at least we THINK we are.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >> From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                              >> Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:40:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                              >>
                                              >> Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small town,
                                              >> only
                                              >> about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with the
                                              >> normal
                                              >> neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She lives
                                              >> in
                                              >> southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get cold until
                                              >> December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                              >
                                              > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up — fast & reliable Internet access with
                                              > prime
                                              > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              religion....
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 559 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: babies/Barry White
                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan
                                              Short"
                                              > Should I consider sticking certain types in certain tanks etc play
                                              > Barry white and all that? hahahaha

                                              Pretty funny, Jonathan!

                                              LOL,
                                              Sierra
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 560 From: Mr and Mrs Hamburg Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              Some koi people also say that you must dig a pond at LEAST six feet deep to
                                              have healthy natural environmental koi. and you must have at least 2,000
                                              callons. and you can't have no more than this amount of fish per gallon,
                                              That's just taking it too far for me. You have to choose what you think is
                                              best.

                                              Due to the climate we live in where we're at., we never used heaters., and
                                              only ONCE did we break the ice. Fish have lived through it. We also
                                              constantly test the water - the feeding habits I suggested do work for us
                                              and the fish. Just keep in mind that my words are only suggestions and how
                                              we keep our ponds and fish. not requirements for all to go by.. different
                                              climates., different conditions, different scenarios.

                                              In general though., or if in doubt, yeah.. I'd say keep a hole in the ice.

                                              Also I suggest that you don't break the ice., it "can" cause death to the
                                              fish from the revirbiration of your pounding on the ice.

                                              And check around on feeding habits and types of food. I was just giving my
                                              recommendation based upon what's in my head. Some people even switch to
                                              different food in the winter. Was only trying to get the concept of colder
                                              it gets less you feed., and that sometimes you don't even need to feed 'em
                                              at all.

                                              >From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:35:09 -0500
                                              >
                                              >there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for toxic gasses to escape
                                              >through when fish are kept in ponds in the winter and under 50, you
                                              >shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose the ability to digest food
                                              >and it just rots in the water, adding to the water's overall toxicity.
                                              >amalthea
                                              >On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs Hamburg wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Hi Erin,
                                              > >
                                              > > Shawn here again.
                                              > >
                                              > > Welll... where we live here.. we don't need to bring them in. Even
                                              > > when it
                                              > > freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower than about 20�.. rarely in the
                                              > > 10's.
                                              > > We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the most. And (I believe) that
                                              > > if even
                                              > > other areas of the country if the pond is deep enough.. (more than I
                                              > > think
                                              > > 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then they can survive at those lower
                                              > > levels. Then again.. I haven't ventured out much.. there probably are
                                              > > some
                                              > > areas of the country where the pond would freeze all the way through?
                                              > > They
                                              > > also make heaters for ponds... but depending on the pond I suppose that
                                              > > could be a costly electric bill.
                                              > >
                                              > > I've been told that even if the water freezes over, you can just leave
                                              > > it
                                              > > and they'll survive.. but i still crack a big hole in it just for fun.
                                              > > From
                                              > > what I understand the fish go dormant.. REALLY dormant. Depending on
                                              > > the
                                              > > temp of the water.. determins how much you feed them. And this would
                                              > > be one
                                              > > for that "mythbusters" show.. but I've heard a goldfish could freeze in
                                              > > water.. and then come out of it a week later or whatever. According to
                                              > > things I've heard it does sound logical., but I wouldn't try it with
                                              > > my 50
                                              > > yr old Koi!
                                              > >
                                              > > Even feeding though, they recommend only once a month if that if the
                                              > > temp is
                                              > > less than 50�, 50 to 60 I think it is.. 2-3 times a week. up in the
                                              > > 70's
                                              > > once or twice a day or 3-4 times a day. I'm not sure if that varies by
                                              > > area., but that's the guidelines I follow. I treally helps the pond ..
                                              > > keeping it clear and clean to not overfeed., yet still keeping the fish
                                              > > healthy and happy.
                                              > >
                                              > > We live in a town with about .. oh heck., i dunno 250,000 ppl.. that's
                                              > > the
                                              > > city area.. i'm in the city, and even here.. we have all them buggers
                                              > > you
                                              > > were talking about. I'd try them shubunkin goldfish thingies .. or get
                                              > > three koi and give them a place to hide 3' down or lower with that PVC
                                              > > pipe
                                              > > or something that a raccoon couldn't get into. You wouldn't believe
                                              > > it, but
                                              > > I've even seen deer where I live! I'm like.. where in the heck did
                                              > > those
                                              > > come from! LOL.. It's amazing how the animals live even though we are
                                              > > taking
                                              > > over... at least we THINK we are.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >> From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                              > >> Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:40:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small town,
                                              > >> only
                                              > >> about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with the
                                              > >> normal
                                              > >> neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She lives
                                              > >> in
                                              > >> southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get cold until
                                              > >> December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                              > >
                                              > > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up � fast & reliable Internet access with
                                              > > prime
                                              > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              >for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              >religion....
                                              >

                                              _________________________________________________________________
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 561 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              I don't have a pond, but know people who do, and I've heard something about floating something pliable (gallon milk containers, etc, and wood of some kind, though I can't remember the specs) to do something. Colud be making it easier to break the ice without making dangerous noise?
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              >
                                              > Some koi people also say that you must dig a pond at LEAST six feet deep to
                                              > have healthy natural environmental koi. and you must have at least 2,000
                                              > callons. and you can't have no more than this amount of fish per gallon,
                                              > That's just taking it too far for me. You have to choose what you think is
                                              > best.
                                              >
                                              > Due to the climate we live in where we're at., we never used heaters., and
                                              > only ONCE did we break the ice. Fish have lived through it. We also
                                              > constantly test the water - the feeding habits I suggested do work for us
                                              > and the fish. Just keep in mind that my words are only suggestions and how
                                              > we keep our ponds and fish. not requirements for all to go by.. different
                                              > climates., different conditions, different scenarios.
                                              >
                                              > In general though., or if in doubt, yeah.. I'd say keep a hole in the ice.
                                              >
                                              > Also I suggest that you don't break the ice., it "can" cause death to the
                                              > fish from the revirbiration of your pounding on the ice.
                                              >
                                              > And check around on feeding habits and types of food. I was just giving my
                                              > recommendation based upon what's in my head. Some people even switch to
                                              > different food in the winter. Was only trying to get the concept of colder
                                              > it gets less you feed., and that sometimes you don't even need to feed 'em
                                              > at all.
                                              >
                                              > >From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              > >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:35:09 -0500
                                              > >
                                              > >there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for toxic gasses to escape
                                              > >through when fish are kept in ponds in the winter and under 50, you
                                              > >shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose the ability to digest food
                                              > >and it just rots in the water, adding to the water's overall toxicity.
                                              > >amalthea
                                              > >On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs Hamburg wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > > Hi Erin,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Shawn here again.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Welll... where we live here.. we don't need to bring them in. Even
                                              > > > when it
                                              > > > freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower than about 20�.. rarely in the
                                              > > > 10's.
                                              > > > We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the most. And (I believe) that
                                              > > > if even
                                              > > > other areas of the country if the pond is deep enough.. (more than I
                                              > > > think
                                              > > > 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then they can survive at those lower
                                              > > > levels. Then again.. I haven't ventured out much.. there probably are
                                              > > > some
                                              > > > areas of the country where the pond would freeze all the way through?
                                              > > > They
                                              > > > also make heaters for ponds... but depending on the pond I suppose that
                                              > > > could be a costly electric bill.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I've been told that even if the water freezes over, you can just leave
                                              > > > it
                                              > > > and they'll survive.. but i still crack a big hole in it just for fun.
                                              > > > From
                                              > > > what I understand the fish go dormant.. REALLY dormant. Depending on
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > temp of the water.. determins how much you feed them. And this would
                                              > > > be one
                                              > > > for that "mythbusters" show.. but I've heard a goldfish could freeze in
                                              > > > water.. and then come out of it a week later or whatever. According to
                                              > > > things I've heard it does sound logical., but I wouldn't try it with
                                              > > > my 50
                                              > > > yr old Koi!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Even feeding though, they recommend only once a month if that if the
                                              > > > temp is
                                              > > > less than 50�, 50 to 60 I think it is.. 2-3 times a week. up in the
                                              > > > 70's
                                              > > > once or twice a day or 3-4 times a day. I'm not sure if that varies by
                                              > > > area., but that's the guidelines I follow. I treally helps the pond ..
                                              > > > keeping it clear and clean to not overfeed., yet still keeping the fish
                                              > > > healthy and happy.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > We live in a town with about .. oh heck., i dunno 250,000 ppl.. that's
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > city area.. i'm in the city, and even here.. we have all them buggers
                                              > > > you
                                              > > > were talking about. I'd try them shubunkin goldfish thingies .. or get
                                              > > > three koi and give them a place to hide 3' down or lower with that PVC
                                              > > > pipe
                                              > > > or something that a raccoon couldn't get into. You wouldn't believe
                                              > > > it, but
                                              > > > I've even seen deer where I live! I'm like.. where in the heck did
                                              > > > those
                                              > > > come from! LOL.. It's amazing how the animals live even though we are
                                              > > > taking
                                              > > > over... at least we THINK we are.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >> From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                              > > >> Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:40:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small town,
                                              > > >> only
                                              > > >> about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with the
                                              > > >> normal
                                              > > >> neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She lives
                                              > > >> in
                                              > > >> southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get cold until
                                              > > >> December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up � fast & reliable Internet access with
                                              > > > prime
                                              > > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > > >
                                              > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > > >
                                              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > >for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > >religion....
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed
                                              > experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
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                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 562 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              H'lo,
                                              ...........and did a little search in GOOGLE

                                              WHY HOLES IN PONDS IN WINTER?

                                              .............and one of the first sites........

                                              http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/nature/pond_care/pond_care.shtml

                                              added light to why and how to noiselessly make holes in ponds in winter.

                                              Joe Pascavage


                                              >
                                              > Some koi people also say that you must dig a pond at LEAST six feet deep to
                                              > have healthy natural environmental koi. and you must have at least 2,000
                                              > callons. and you can't have no more than this amount of fish per gallon,
                                              > That's just taking it too far for me. You have to choose what you think is
                                              > best.
                                              >
                                              > Due to the climate we live in where we're at., we never used heaters., and
                                              > only ONCE did we break the ice. Fish have lived through it. We also
                                              > constantly test the water - the feeding habits I suggested do work for us
                                              > and the fish. Just keep in mind that my words are only suggestions and how
                                              > we keep our ponds and fish. not requirements for all to go by.. different
                                              > climates., different conditions, different scenarios.
                                              >
                                              > In general though., or if in doubt, yeah.. I'd say keep a hole in the ice.
                                              >
                                              > Also I suggest that you don't break the ice., it "can" cause death to the
                                              > fish from the revirbiration of your pounding on the ice.
                                              >
                                              > And check around on feeding habits and types of food. I was just giving my
                                              > recommendation based upon what's in my head. Some people even switch to
                                              > different food in the winter. Was only trying to get the concept of colder
                                              > it gets less you feed., and that sometimes you don't even need to feed 'em
                                              > at all.
                                              >
                                              > >From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              > >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:35:09 -0500
                                              > >
                                              > >there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for toxic gasses to escape
                                              > >through when fish are kept in ponds in the winter and under 50, you
                                              > >shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose the ability to digest food
                                              > >and it just rots in the water, adding to the water's overall toxicity.
                                              > >amalthea
                                              > >On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs Hamburg wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > > Hi Erin,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Shawn here again.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Welll... where we live here.. we don't need to bring them in. Even
                                              > > > when it
                                              > > > freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower than about 20�.. rarely in the
                                              > > > 10's.
                                              > > > We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the most. And (I believe) that
                                              > > > if even
                                              > > > other areas of the country if the pond is deep enough.. (more than I
                                              > > > think
                                              > > > 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then they can survive at those lower
                                              > > > levels. Then again.. I haven't ventured out much.. there probably are
                                              > > > some
                                              > > > areas of the country where the pond would freeze all the way through?
                                              > > > They
                                              > > > also make heaters for ponds... but depending on the pond I suppose that
                                              > > > could be a costly electric bill.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I've been told that even if the water freezes over, you can just leave
                                              > > > it
                                              > > > and they'll survive.. but i still crack a big hole in it just for fun.
                                              > > > From
                                              > > > what I understand the fish go dormant.. REALLY dormant. Depending on
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > temp of the water.. determins how much you feed them. And this would
                                              > > > be one
                                              > > > for that "mythbusters" show.. but I've heard a goldfish could freeze in
                                              > > > water.. and then come out of it a week later or whatever. According to
                                              > > > things I've heard it does sound logical., but I wouldn't try it with
                                              > > > my 50
                                              > > > yr old Koi!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Even feeding though, they recommend only once a month if that if the
                                              > > > temp is
                                              > > > less than 50�, 50 to 60 I think it is.. 2-3 times a week. up in the
                                              > > > 70's
                                              > > > once or twice a day or 3-4 times a day. I'm not sure if that varies by
                                              > > > area., but that's the guidelines I follow. I treally helps the pond ..
                                              > > > keeping it clear and clean to not overfeed., yet still keeping the fish
                                              > > > healthy and happy.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > We live in a town with about .. oh heck., i dunno 250,000 ppl.. that's
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > city area.. i'm in the city, and even here.. we have all them buggers
                                              > > > you
                                              > > > were talking about. I'd try them shubunkin goldfish thingies .. or get
                                              > > > three koi and give them a place to hide 3' down or lower with that PVC
                                              > > > pipe
                                              > > > or something that a raccoon couldn't get into. You wouldn't believe
                                              > > > it, but
                                              > > > I've even seen deer where I live! I'm like.. where in the heck did
                                              > > > those
                                              > > > come from! LOL.. It's amazing how the animals live even though we are
                                              > > > taking
                                              > > > over... at least we THINK we are.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >> From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                              > > >> Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:40:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small town,
                                              > > >> only
                                              > > >> about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with the
                                              > > >> normal
                                              > > >> neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She lives
                                              > > >> in
                                              > > >> southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get cold until
                                              > > >> December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up � fast & reliable Internet access with
                                              > > > prime
                                              > > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > > >
                                              > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > > >
                                              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > >for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > >religion....
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed
                                              > experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 563 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
                                              Hi Mary,

                                              My friend has in his 55Gal tank, platys, tetras, black
                                              skirts tetras and adult angles.

                                              But i think the key to his platys surviving is the
                                              good number of plants in his tank and also the size.

                                              What is the size of your acq ?? cause the angles will
                                              grow big and will need huge space something like a
                                              20gal tank for a pair of angles.

                                              Hope this helps....SuNnY !


                                              Also
                                              --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                              > I thought I had resent this message since I had not
                                              > a any response, but I'm
                                              > not finding the resend, so I'll try again. I'm
                                              > going to add to it since it
                                              > was sent several days ago.
                                              >
                                              > I visited a store in College Station while I was
                                              > there last weekend and they
                                              > had the most beautiful fish! Gorgeous baby angels!
                                              > I wanted them so bad,
                                              > but tank is on day 10 of cycling and no ammonia or
                                              > nitrites so far. When do
                                              > you usually start seeing the nitrites and ammonia?
                                              > I thought the peak was
                                              > around 14 days. I started the tank with Stress Coat
                                              > and Stress Zyme, but
                                              > have not put any more chemicals in since day 1.
                                              >
                                              > They also had platys in every color imaginable! I
                                              > asked if they were
                                              > altered in any way and they said no. They do not
                                              > sell any fish that are
                                              > injected or painted in any way. Guarantee for 7
                                              > days as long as you follow
                                              > their recommendations and don't put fish in with
                                              > others they said not to.
                                              > Is this a good guarantee?
                                              >
                                              > How will platys do with the black skirted tetras
                                              > that are cycling my tank
                                              > and then the 2 angels I will add at the end. They
                                              > recommended putting in
                                              > all the platys, then adding the baby angels as they
                                              > very last fish.
                                              >
                                              > Have ya'll seen platys that are almost as vivid as
                                              > salt water fish? Red,
                                              > orange, pink, yellow, light blue, etc. A real
                                              > spectrum! I don't want them
                                              > if they really have been altered in some way.
                                              >
                                              > TTYL
                                              > Mary
                                              >


                                              __________________________________
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 564 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              Hi,
                                              ..........my thoughts on ponds relating to depth are that goldfish are coldwater fish (I don't know about koi, though had a few in a 75 gallon tank with my goldfish, and the koi relatively dominated the goldfish, one more than others), and the deeper the pond, the cooler it will be. I don't know all local and greater ordinances, but pond-depth is somewhere regulated to a degree that it cannot be deeper than such and such, unless you have a fence to safeguard children and trespassers.
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              >
                                              > Some koi people also say that you must dig a pond at LEAST six feet deep to
                                              > have healthy natural environmental koi. and you must have at least 2,000
                                              > callons. and you can't have no more than this amount of fish per gallon,
                                              > That's just taking it too far for me. You have to choose what you think is
                                              > best.
                                              >
                                              > Due to the climate we live in where we're at., we never used heaters., and
                                              > only ONCE did we break the ice. Fish have lived through it. We also
                                              > constantly test the water - the feeding habits I suggested do work for us
                                              > and the fish. Just keep in mind that my words are only suggestions and how
                                              > we keep our ponds and fish. not requirements for all to go by.. different
                                              > climates., different conditions, different scenarios.
                                              >
                                              > In general though., or if in doubt, yeah.. I'd say keep a hole in the ice.
                                              >
                                              > Also I suggest that you don't break the ice., it "can" cause death to the
                                              > fish from the revirbiration of your pounding on the ice.
                                              >
                                              > And check around on feeding habits and types of food. I was just giving my
                                              > recommendation based upon what's in my head. Some people even switch to
                                              > different food in the winter. Was only trying to get the concept of colder
                                              > it gets less you feed., and that sometimes you don't even need to feed 'em
                                              > at all.
                                              >
                                              > >From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              > >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:35:09 -0500
                                              > >
                                              > >there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for toxic gasses to escape
                                              > >through when fish are kept in ponds in the winter and under 50, you
                                              > >shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose the ability to digest food
                                              > >and it just rots in the water, adding to the water's overall toxicity.
                                              > >amalthea
                                              > >On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs Hamburg wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > > Hi Erin,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Shawn here again.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Welll... where we live here.. we don't need to bring them in. Even
                                              > > > when it
                                              > > > freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower than about 20�.. rarely in the
                                              > > > 10's.
                                              > > > We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the most. And (I believe) that
                                              > > > if even
                                              > > > other areas of the country if the pond is deep enough.. (more than I
                                              > > > think
                                              > > > 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then they can survive at those lower
                                              > > > levels. Then again.. I haven't ventured out much.. there probably are
                                              > > > some
                                              > > > areas of the country where the pond would freeze all the way through?
                                              > > > They
                                              > > > also make heaters for ponds... but depending on the pond I suppose that
                                              > > > could be a costly electric bill.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I've been told that even if the water freezes over, you can just leave
                                              > > > it
                                              > > > and they'll survive.. but i still crack a big hole in it just for fun.
                                              > > > From
                                              > > > what I understand the fish go dormant.. REALLY dormant. Depending on
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > temp of the water.. determins how much you feed them. And this would
                                              > > > be one
                                              > > > for that "mythbusters" show.. but I've heard a goldfish could freeze in
                                              > > > water.. and then come out of it a week later or whatever. According to
                                              > > > things I've heard it does sound logical., but I wouldn't try it with
                                              > > > my 50
                                              > > > yr old Koi!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Even feeding though, they recommend only once a month if that if the
                                              > > > temp is
                                              > > > less than 50�, 50 to 60 I think it is.. 2-3 times a week. up in the
                                              > > > 70's
                                              > > > once or twice a day or 3-4 times a day. I'm not sure if that varies by
                                              > > > area., but that's the guidelines I follow. I treally helps the pond ..
                                              > > > keeping it clear and clean to not overfeed., yet still keeping the fish
                                              > > > healthy and happy.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > We live in a town with about .. oh heck., i dunno 250,000 ppl.. that's
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > city area.. i'm in the city, and even here.. we have all them buggers
                                              > > > you
                                              > > > were talking about. I'd try them shubunkin goldfish thingies .. or get
                                              > > > three koi and give them a place to hide 3' down or lower with that PVC
                                              > > > pipe
                                              > > > or something that a raccoon couldn't get into. You wouldn't believe
                                              > > > it, but
                                              > > > I've even seen deer where I live! I'm like.. where in the heck did
                                              > > > those
                                              > > > come from! LOL.. It's amazing how the animals live even though we are
                                              > > > taking
                                              > > > over... at least we THINK we are.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >> From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                              > > >> Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:40:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small town,
                                              > > >> only
                                              > > >> about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with the
                                              > > >> normal
                                              > > >> neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She lives
                                              > > >> in
                                              > > >> southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get cold until
                                              > > >> December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up � fast & reliable Internet access with
                                              > > > prime
                                              > > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > > >
                                              > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > > >
                                              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >
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                                              > >for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 565 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Platys/Cycling/and other stuff It's a 29 gal.  I'm so engrossed that what I would hope to do is get another aquarium later and move the angels then.  Gotta get this thing to cycle first though.  I don't have to have the angels though.  I loved those platys, so I may get some of those and decide I'm happy without the angels.    I'll get more plants if you think I need more.  A picture of my tank as it is right now is in the photos section.  Check it out and let me know if I need more plants since I have that rock with the holes in it.

                                              THanks
                                              Mary

                                              From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:34:58 -0800 (PST)
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Platys/Cycling/and other stuff


                                              Hi Mary,

                                              My friend has in his 55Gal tank, platys, tetras, black
                                              skirts tetras and adult angles.

                                              But i think the key to his platys surviving is the
                                              good number of plants in his tank and also the size.

                                              What is the size of your acq ?? cause the angles will
                                              grow big and will need huge space something like a
                                              20gal tank for a pair of angles.

                                              Hope this helps....SuNnY !


                                              Also
                                              --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                              > I thought I had resent this message since I had not
                                              > a any response, but I'm
                                              > not finding the resend, so I'll try again.  I'm
                                              > going to add to it since it
                                              > was sent several days ago.
                                              >
                                              > I visited a store in College Station while I was
                                              > there last weekend and they
                                              > had the most beautiful fish!  Gorgeous baby angels!
                                              > I wanted them so bad,
                                              > but tank is on day 10 of cycling and no ammonia or
                                              > nitrites so far.  When do
                                              > you usually start seeing the nitrites and ammonia?
                                              > I thought the peak was
                                              > around 14 days.  I started the tank with Stress Coat
                                              > and Stress Zyme, but
                                              > have not put any more chemicals in since day 1.
                                              >
                                              > They also had platys in every color imaginable!  I
                                              > asked if they were
                                              > altered in any way and they said no.  They do not
                                              > sell any fish that are
                                              > injected or painted in any way.  Guarantee for 7
                                              > days as long as you follow
                                              > their recommendations and don't put fish in with
                                              > others they said not to.
                                              > Is this a good guarantee?
                                              >
                                              > How will platys do with the black skirted tetras
                                              > that are cycling my tank
                                              > and then the 2 angels I will add at the end.  They
                                              > recommended putting in
                                              > all the platys, then adding the baby angels as they
                                              > very last fish.
                                              >
                                              > Have ya'll seen platys that are almost as vivid as
                                              > salt water fish?  Red,
                                              > orange, pink, yellow, light blue, etc.  A real
                                              > spectrum!  I don't want them
                                              > if they really have been altered in some way.
                                              >
                                              > TTYL
                                              > Mary
                                              >


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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 566 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              how deep until you have to fence in a pond:

                                              There are usually ordinances everywhere about this. When we started to look
                                              into building our Koi pond, we really got into the technical legal schmegal.
                                              What we ended up determining.. is.. no matter whether you have a 3 inch deep
                                              pond or a 6 foot pond, you still own the land and have liabilities. (and
                                              usually if you go more than 18" you must fence it in by law)

                                              But anyway, believe it or not, when we were asking around about lawsuits,
                                              etc. there was a lady who had started to build a fence around their house..
                                              dug holes but then it started pooring down rain. fence holes were still
                                              there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby crawled
                                              over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died. Owner
                                              of land was sued like you wouldn't believe. Your homeowners and other
                                              insurances only protect you so much... it can go much farther than that.
                                              civil.

                                              So.. moral of all of this., to me.. in my understanding.. was.. build a
                                              fence anyway! Fence in your yard. Max height they allow. usually 6'.
                                              Yeah.. there could still be liability, but you've lessened the likelyhood.

                                              And then there's the moral part. Would you like to have a child wander into
                                              your backyard, and trip, fall., and drown in your pond no matter what the
                                              depth? I sure wouldn't. That would hurt me more than the lawsuit. So we
                                              fenced in our yard before we continued with the pond.


                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:49 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds


                                              > Hi,
                                              > ..........my thoughts on ponds relating to depth are that goldfish
                                              are coldwater fish (I don't know about koi, though had a few in a 75 gallon
                                              tank with my goldfish, and the koi relatively dominated the goldfish, one
                                              more than others), and the deeper the pond, the cooler it will be. I don't
                                              know all local and greater ordinances, but pond-depth is somewhere regulated
                                              to a degree that it cannot be deeper than such and such, unless you have a
                                              fence to safeguard children and trespassers.
                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                              > >
                                              > > Some koi people also say that you must dig a pond at LEAST six feet deep
                                              to
                                              > > have healthy natural environmental koi. and you must have at least
                                              2,000
                                              > > callons. and you can't have no more than this amount of fish per
                                              gallon,
                                              > > That's just taking it too far for me. You have to choose what you think
                                              is
                                              > > best.
                                              > >
                                              > > Due to the climate we live in where we're at., we never used heaters.,
                                              and
                                              > > only ONCE did we break the ice. Fish have lived through it. We also
                                              > > constantly test the water - the feeding habits I suggested do work for
                                              us
                                              > > and the fish. Just keep in mind that my words are only suggestions and
                                              how
                                              > > we keep our ponds and fish. not requirements for all to go by..
                                              different
                                              > > climates., different conditions, different scenarios.
                                              > >
                                              > > In general though., or if in doubt, yeah.. I'd say keep a hole in the
                                              ice.
                                              > >
                                              > > Also I suggest that you don't break the ice., it "can" cause death to
                                              the
                                              > > fish from the revirbiration of your pounding on the ice.
                                              > >
                                              > > And check around on feeding habits and types of food. I was just giving
                                              my
                                              > > recommendation based upon what's in my head. Some people even switch to
                                              > > different food in the winter. Was only trying to get the concept of
                                              colder
                                              > > it gets less you feed., and that sometimes you don't even need to feed
                                              'em
                                              > > at all.
                                              > >
                                              > > >From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              > > >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:35:09 -0500
                                              > > >
                                              > > >there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for toxic gasses to escape
                                              > > >through when fish are kept in ponds in the winter and under 50, you
                                              > > >shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose the ability to digest food
                                              > > >and it just rots in the water, adding to the water's overall toxicity.
                                              > > >amalthea
                                              > > >On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs Hamburg wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > Hi Erin,
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Shawn here again.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Welll... where we live here.. we don't need to bring them in. Even
                                              > > > > when it
                                              > > > > freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower than about 20°.. rarely in
                                              the
                                              > > > > 10's.
                                              > > > > We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the most. And (I believe) that
                                              > > > > if even
                                              > > > > other areas of the country if the pond is deep enough.. (more than I
                                              > > > > think
                                              > > > > 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then they can survive at those
                                              lower
                                              > > > > levels. Then again.. I haven't ventured out much.. there probably
                                              are
                                              > > > > some
                                              > > > > areas of the country where the pond would freeze all the way
                                              through?
                                              > > > > They
                                              > > > > also make heaters for ponds... but depending on the pond I suppose
                                              that
                                              > > > > could be a costly electric bill.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I've been told that even if the water freezes over, you can just
                                              leave
                                              > > > > it
                                              > > > > and they'll survive.. but i still crack a big hole in it just for
                                              fun.
                                              > > > > From
                                              > > > > what I understand the fish go dormant.. REALLY dormant. Depending
                                              on
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > > temp of the water.. determins how much you feed them. And this
                                              would
                                              > > > > be one
                                              > > > > for that "mythbusters" show.. but I've heard a goldfish could freeze
                                              in
                                              > > > > water.. and then come out of it a week later or whatever. According
                                              to
                                              > > > > things I've heard it does sound logical., but I wouldn't try it with
                                              > > > > my 50
                                              > > > > yr old Koi!
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Even feeding though, they recommend only once a month if that if the
                                              > > > > temp is
                                              > > > > less than 50°, 50 to 60 I think it is.. 2-3 times a week. up in the
                                              > > > > 70's
                                              > > > > once or twice a day or 3-4 times a day. I'm not sure if that varies
                                              by
                                              > > > > area., but that's the guidelines I follow. I treally helps the pond
                                              .
                                              > > > > keeping it clear and clean to not overfeed., yet still keeping the
                                              fish
                                              > > > > healthy and happy.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > We live in a town with about .. oh heck., i dunno 250,000 ppl..
                                              that's
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > > city area.. i'm in the city, and even here.. we have all them
                                              buggers
                                              > > > > you
                                              > > > > were talking about. I'd try them shubunkin goldfish thingies .. or
                                              get
                                              > > > > three koi and give them a place to hide 3' down or lower with that
                                              PVC
                                              > > > > pipe
                                              > > > > or something that a raccoon couldn't get into. You wouldn't believe
                                              > > > > it, but
                                              > > > > I've even seen deer where I live! I'm like.. where in the heck did
                                              > > > > those
                                              > > > > come from! LOL.. It's amazing how the animals live even though we
                                              are
                                              > > > > taking
                                              > > > > over... at least we THINK we are.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >> From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                              > > > >> Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > > >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:40:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small
                                              town,
                                              > > > >> only
                                              > > > >> about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with
                                              the
                                              > > > >> normal
                                              > > > >> neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She
                                              lives
                                              > > > >> in
                                              > > > >> southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get cold
                                              until
                                              > > > >> December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > > > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access
                                              with
                                              > > > > prime
                                              > > > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > > >for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > > >religion....
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > > Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your
                                              high-speed
                                              > > experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                              >
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                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 567 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              Just some thoughts, but holes also allow fish to come to surface and
                                              probably will coz they're so brainwashed to think that there's food when
                                              they hear you or see you walking up whether you feed them or not.. if you
                                              live in a highly populated animal area... they also allow animals to sit on
                                              the ice and wait for your tasty little fish. So I've never put holes in the
                                              ice unless it was deemed necessary. I've never lost fish. Talked with a
                                              couple people at work that got me going on Koi ponds.. they also have never
                                              broken the ice here. It really depends on your circumstances. If you had a
                                              300 gallon pond, 14" deep that was loaded with leaves and debris and junk..
                                              then yeah.. I think i'd make a hole.

                                              I do like that idea for melting the ice though... boiling hot water in a
                                              metal pan set it on the ice.

                                              When I asked this one guy at work about his Koi pond, he did say that he
                                              learned the hard way.. cracked the ice with a hammer.. after thaw.. all his
                                              koi had died. Since, he has never made a hole in the pond. It actually
                                              really surprised me because his pond is only 18" deep and maybe 1,000
                                              gallons if that.. and his fish did survive.. if i was in those
                                              circumstances, I probably would have made a hole. He said the ice was
                                              probably about 2" thick at the worst, but still no fish loss.

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:58 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds


                                              > H'lo,
                                              > ...........and did a little search in GOOGLE
                                              >
                                              > WHY HOLES IN PONDS IN WINTER?
                                              >
                                              > .............and one of the first sites........
                                              >
                                              > http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/nature/pond_care/pond_care.shtml
                                              >
                                              > added light to why and how to noiselessly make holes in ponds in
                                              winter.
                                              >
                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > >
                                              > > Some koi people also say that you must dig a pond at LEAST six feet deep
                                              to
                                              > > have healthy natural environmental koi. and you must have at least
                                              2,000
                                              > > callons. and you can't have no more than this amount of fish per
                                              gallon,
                                              > > That's just taking it too far for me. You have to choose what you think
                                              is
                                              > > best.
                                              > >
                                              > > Due to the climate we live in where we're at., we never used heaters.,
                                              and
                                              > > only ONCE did we break the ice. Fish have lived through it. We also
                                              > > constantly test the water - the feeding habits I suggested do work for
                                              us
                                              > > and the fish. Just keep in mind that my words are only suggestions and
                                              how
                                              > > we keep our ponds and fish. not requirements for all to go by..
                                              different
                                              > > climates., different conditions, different scenarios.
                                              > >
                                              > > In general though., or if in doubt, yeah.. I'd say keep a hole in the
                                              ice.
                                              > >
                                              > > Also I suggest that you don't break the ice., it "can" cause death to
                                              the
                                              > > fish from the revirbiration of your pounding on the ice.
                                              > >
                                              > > And check around on feeding habits and types of food. I was just giving
                                              my
                                              > > recommendation based upon what's in my head. Some people even switch to
                                              > > different food in the winter. Was only trying to get the concept of
                                              colder
                                              > > it gets less you feed., and that sometimes you don't even need to feed
                                              'em
                                              > > at all.
                                              > >
                                              > > >From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              > > >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:35:09 -0500
                                              > > >
                                              > > >there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for toxic gasses to escape
                                              > > >through when fish are kept in ponds in the winter and under 50, you
                                              > > >shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose the ability to digest food
                                              > > >and it just rots in the water, adding to the water's overall toxicity.
                                              > > >amalthea
                                              > > >On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs Hamburg wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > Hi Erin,
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Shawn here again.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Welll... where we live here.. we don't need to bring them in. Even
                                              > > > > when it
                                              > > > > freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower than about 20°.. rarely in
                                              the
                                              > > > > 10's.
                                              > > > > We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the most. And (I believe) that
                                              > > > > if even
                                              > > > > other areas of the country if the pond is deep enough.. (more than I
                                              > > > > think
                                              > > > > 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then they can survive at those
                                              lower
                                              > > > > levels. Then again.. I haven't ventured out much.. there probably
                                              are
                                              > > > > some
                                              > > > > areas of the country where the pond would freeze all the way
                                              through?
                                              > > > > They
                                              > > > > also make heaters for ponds... but depending on the pond I suppose
                                              that
                                              > > > > could be a costly electric bill.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I've been told that even if the water freezes over, you can just
                                              leave
                                              > > > > it
                                              > > > > and they'll survive.. but i still crack a big hole in it just for
                                              fun.
                                              > > > > From
                                              > > > > what I understand the fish go dormant.. REALLY dormant. Depending
                                              on
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > > temp of the water.. determins how much you feed them. And this
                                              would
                                              > > > > be one
                                              > > > > for that "mythbusters" show.. but I've heard a goldfish could freeze
                                              in
                                              > > > > water.. and then come out of it a week later or whatever. According
                                              to
                                              > > > > things I've heard it does sound logical., but I wouldn't try it with
                                              > > > > my 50
                                              > > > > yr old Koi!
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Even feeding though, they recommend only once a month if that if the
                                              > > > > temp is
                                              > > > > less than 50°, 50 to 60 I think it is.. 2-3 times a week. up in the
                                              > > > > 70's
                                              > > > > once or twice a day or 3-4 times a day. I'm not sure if that varies
                                              by
                                              > > > > area., but that's the guidelines I follow. I treally helps the pond
                                              .
                                              > > > > keeping it clear and clean to not overfeed., yet still keeping the
                                              fish
                                              > > > > healthy and happy.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > We live in a town with about .. oh heck., i dunno 250,000 ppl..
                                              that's
                                              > > > > the
                                              > > > > city area.. i'm in the city, and even here.. we have all them
                                              buggers
                                              > > > > you
                                              > > > > were talking about. I'd try them shubunkin goldfish thingies .. or
                                              get
                                              > > > > three koi and give them a place to hide 3' down or lower with that
                                              PVC
                                              > > > > pipe
                                              > > > > or something that a raccoon couldn't get into. You wouldn't believe
                                              > > > > it, but
                                              > > > > I've even seen deer where I live! I'm like.. where in the heck did
                                              > > > > those
                                              > > > > come from! LOL.. It's amazing how the animals live even though we
                                              are
                                              > > > > taking
                                              > > > > over... at least we THINK we are.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >> From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                              > > > >> Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > > >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:40:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                              > > > >>
                                              > > > >> Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small
                                              town,
                                              > > > >> only
                                              > > > >> about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal with
                                              the
                                              > > > >> normal
                                              > > > >> neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She
                                              lives
                                              > > > >> in
                                              > > > >> southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get cold
                                              until
                                              > > > >> December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > _________________________________________________________________
                                              > > > > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access
                                              with
                                              > > > > prime
                                              > > > > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 568 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
                                              Hi Mary,

                                              Its a nice setup u have. but i would suggest having
                                              some live plants in it as well. For starters u can go
                                              in for the Harty ones like Amazon Sword, Java Fern,
                                              valisneria etc..

                                              I love angles and so i would suggest u go in for
                                              angles which are small. So once they grow then u can
                                              go in for a bigger tank like what happened in my case
                                              :*wink*

                                              You can take the water sample to your LFS and get it
                                              tested to check if the cycling is complete and ready
                                              to add the platys..

                                              While adding fishes please first add the platys ( 3 -
                                              4 ) then after about a week and a half add the neons (
                                              4 - 5 ) and after about 3 weeks add the angles only 2.

                                              Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                              --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                              > It's a 29 gal. I'm so engrossed that what I would
                                              > hope to do is get another
                                              > aquarium later and move the angels then. Gotta get
                                              > this thing to cycle
                                              > first though. I don't have to have the angels
                                              > though. I loved those
                                              > platys, so I may get some of those and decide I'm
                                              > happy without the angels.
                                              > I'll get more plants if you think I need more. A
                                              > picture of my tank as it
                                              > is right now is in the photos section. Check it out
                                              > and let me know if I
                                              > need more plants since I have that rock with the
                                              > holes in it.
                                              >
                                              > THanks
                                              > Mary
                                              >
                                              > From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                              > Reply-To:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:34:58 -0800 (PST)
                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                              > Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Hi Mary,
                                              >
                                              > My friend has in his 55Gal tank, platys, tetras,
                                              > black
                                              > skirts tetras and adult angles.
                                              >
                                              > But i think the key to his platys surviving is the
                                              > good number of plants in his tank and also the size.
                                              >
                                              > What is the size of your acq ?? cause the angles
                                              > will
                                              > grow big and will need huge space something like a
                                              > 20gal tank for a pair of angles.
                                              >
                                              > Hope this helps....SuNnY !
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Also
                                              > --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > > I thought I had resent this message since I had
                                              > not
                                              > > a any response, but I'm
                                              > > not finding the resend, so I'll try again. I'm
                                              > > going to add to it since it
                                              > > was sent several days ago.
                                              > >
                                              > > I visited a store in College Station while I was
                                              > > there last weekend and they
                                              > > had the most beautiful fish! Gorgeous baby
                                              > angels!
                                              > > I wanted them so bad,
                                              > > but tank is on day 10 of cycling and no ammonia or
                                              > > nitrites so far. When do
                                              > > you usually start seeing the nitrites and ammonia?
                                              > > I thought the peak was
                                              > > around 14 days. I started the tank with Stress
                                              > Coat
                                              > > and Stress Zyme, but
                                              > > have not put any more chemicals in since day 1.
                                              > >
                                              > > They also had platys in every color imaginable! I
                                              > > asked if they were
                                              > > altered in any way and they said no. They do not
                                              > > sell any fish that are
                                              > > injected or painted in any way. Guarantee for 7
                                              > > days as long as you follow
                                              > > their recommendations and don't put fish in with
                                              > > others they said not to.
                                              > > Is this a good guarantee?
                                              > >
                                              > > How will platys do with the black skirted tetras
                                              > > that are cycling my tank
                                              > > and then the 2 angels I will add at the end. They
                                              > > recommended putting in
                                              > > all the platys, then adding the baby angels as
                                              > they
                                              > > very last fish.
                                              > >
                                              > > Have ya'll seen platys that are almost as vivid as
                                              > > salt water fish? Red,
                                              > > orange, pink, yellow, light blue, etc. A real
                                              > > spectrum! I don't want them
                                              > > if they really have been altered in some way.
                                              > >
                                              > > TTYL
                                              > > Mary
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 569 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              generally ponds like that never totally freeze, there's always some
                                              open water at the very edge, and that's how the gasses escape...
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 28, 2004, at 10:56 PM, The Hamburgs wrote:

                                              > Just some thoughts, but holes also allow fish to come to surface and
                                              > probably will coz they're so brainwashed to think that there's food
                                              > when
                                              > they hear you or see you walking up whether you feed them or not.. if
                                              > you
                                              > live in a highly populated animal area... they also allow animals to
                                              > sit on
                                              > the ice and wait for your tasty little fish.  So I've never put holes
                                              > in the
                                              > ice unless it was deemed necessary.  I've never lost fish.  Talked
                                              > with a
                                              > couple people at work that got me going on Koi ponds.. they also have
                                              > never
                                              > broken the ice here.  It really depends on your circumstances.  If you
                                              > had a
                                              > 300 gallon pond, 14" deep that was loaded with leaves and debris and
                                              > junk..
                                              > then yeah..  I think i'd make a hole.
                                              >
                                              > I do like that idea for melting the ice though... boiling hot water in
                                              > a
                                              > metal pan set it on the ice.
                                              >
                                              > When I asked this one guy at work about his Koi pond, he did say that
                                              > he
                                              > learned the hard way.. cracked the ice with a hammer.. after thaw..
                                              > all his
                                              > koi had died.  Since, he has never made a hole in the pond.  It
                                              > actually
                                              > really surprised me because his pond is only 18" deep and maybe 1,000
                                              > gallons if that.. and his fish did survive.. if i was in those
                                              > circumstances, I probably would have made a hole.  He said the ice was
                                              > probably about 2" thick at the worst, but still no fish loss.
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:58 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > >    H'lo,
                                              > >      ...........and did a little search in GOOGLE
                                              > >
                                              > >           WHY HOLES IN PONDS IN WINTER?
                                              > >
                                              > >      .............and one of the first sites........
                                              > >
                                              > >    http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/nature/pond_care/pond_care.shtml
                                              > >
                                              > >      added light to why and how to noiselessly make holes in ponds in
                                              > winter.
                                              > >
                                              > >              Joe Pascavage
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Some koi people also say that you must dig a pond at LEAST six
                                              > feet deep
                                              > to
                                              > > > have healthy natural environmental koi.  and you must have at least
                                              > 2,000
                                              > > > callons.  and you can't have no more than this amount of fish per
                                              > gallon,
                                              > > > That's just taking it too far for me.  You have to choose what you
                                              > think
                                              > is
                                              > > > best.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Due to the climate we live in where we're at., we never used
                                              > heaters.,
                                              > and
                                              > > > only ONCE did we break the ice.  Fish have lived through it.  We
                                              > also
                                              > > > constantly test the water - the feeding habits I suggested do work
                                              > for
                                              > us
                                              > > > and the fish.  Just keep in mind that my words are only
                                              > suggestions and
                                              > how
                                              > > > we keep our ponds and fish. not requirements for all to go by..
                                              > different
                                              > > > climates., different conditions, different scenarios.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > In general though., or if in doubt, yeah.. I'd say keep a hole in
                                              > the
                                              > ice.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Also I suggest that you don't break the ice., it "can" cause death
                                              > to
                                              > the
                                              > > > fish from the revirbiration of your pounding on the ice.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > And check around on feeding habits and types of food.  I was just
                                              > giving
                                              > my
                                              > > > recommendation based upon what's in my head.  Some people even
                                              > switch to
                                              > > > different food in the winter.  Was only trying to get the concept
                                              > of
                                              > colder
                                              > > > it gets less you feed., and that sometimes you don't even need to
                                              > feed
                                              > 'em
                                              > > > at all.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > >From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              > > > >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > > >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:35:09 -0500
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for toxic gasses to escape
                                              > > > >through when fish are kept in ponds in the winter and under 50,
                                              > you
                                              > > > >shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose the ability to
                                              > digest food
                                              > > > >and it just rots in the water, adding to the water's overall
                                              > toxicity.
                                              > > > >amalthea
                                              > > > >On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs Hamburg wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > > Hi Erin,
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Shawn here again.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Welll... where we live here.. we don't need to bring them in. 
                                              > Even
                                              > > > > > when it
                                              > > > > > freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower than about 20°.. rarely
                                              > in
                                              > the
                                              > > > > > 10's.
                                              > > > > > We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the most.  And (I
                                              > believe) that
                                              > > > > > if even
                                              > > > > > other areas of the country if the pond is deep enough.. (more
                                              > than I
                                              > > > > > think
                                              > > > > > 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then they can survive at
                                              > those
                                              > lower
                                              > > > > > levels.  Then again.. I haven't ventured out much.. there
                                              > probably
                                              > are
                                              > > > > > some
                                              > > > > > areas of the country where the pond would freeze all the way
                                              > through?
                                              > > > > > They
                                              > > > > > also make heaters for ponds... but depending on the pond I
                                              > suppose
                                              > that
                                              > > > > > could be a costly electric bill.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I've been told that even if the water freezes over, you can
                                              > just
                                              > leave
                                              > > > > > it
                                              > > > > > and they'll survive.. but i still crack a big hole in it just
                                              > for
                                              > fun.
                                              > > > > >  From
                                              > > > > > what I understand the fish go dormant.. REALLY dormant. 
                                              > Depending
                                              > on
                                              > > > > > the
                                              > > > > > temp of the water.. determins how much you feed them.  And this
                                              > would
                                              > > > > > be one
                                              > > > > > for that "mythbusters" show.. but I've heard a goldfish could
                                              > freeze
                                              > in
                                              > > > > > water.. and then come out of it a week later or whatever. 
                                              > According
                                              > to
                                              > > > > > things I've heard it does sound logical., but I wouldn't try
                                              > it with
                                              > > > > > my 50
                                              > > > > > yr old Koi!
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Even feeding though, they recommend only once a month if that
                                              > if the
                                              > > > > > temp is
                                              > > > > > less than 50°, 50 to 60 I think it is.. 2-3 times a week.  up
                                              > in the
                                              > > > > > 70's
                                              > > > > > once or twice a day or 3-4 times a day.  I'm not sure if that
                                              > varies
                                              > by
                                              > > > > > area., but that's the guidelines I follow.  I treally helps
                                              > the pond
                                              > .
                                              > > > > > keeping it clear and clean to not overfeed., yet still keeping
                                              > the
                                              > fish
                                              > > > > > healthy and happy.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > We live in a town with about .. oh heck., i dunno 250,000 ppl..
                                              > that's
                                              > > > > > the
                                              > > > > > city area.. i'm in the city, and even here.. we have all them
                                              > buggers
                                              > > > > > you
                                              > > > > > were talking about.  I'd try them shubunkin goldfish thingies
                                              > .. or
                                              > get
                                              > > > > > three koi and give them a place to hide 3' down or lower with
                                              > that
                                              > PVC
                                              > > > > > pipe
                                              > > > > > or something that a raccoon couldn't get into.  You wouldn't
                                              > believe
                                              > > > > > it, but
                                              > > > > > I've even seen deer where I live!  I'm like.. where in the
                                              > heck did
                                              > > > > > those
                                              > > > > > come from! LOL.. It's amazing how the animals live even though
                                              > we
                                              > are
                                              > > > > > taking
                                              > > > > > over... at least we THINK we are.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >> From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                              > > > > >> Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > > > >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > > > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:40:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                              > > > > >>
                                              > > > > >> Well my mother lives in a pretty rural area. It's a VERY small
                                              > town,
                                              > > > > >> only
                                              > > > > >> about 100 or so people live there. She not only has to deal
                                              > with
                                              > the
                                              > > > > >> normal
                                              > > > > >> neighborhood dogs and cats, but also raccoons and possums. She
                                              > lives
                                              > > > > >> in
                                              > > > > >> southeastern Georgia (in the US) so it doesn't usually get
                                              > cold
                                              > until
                                              > > > > >> December or so, and then it starts warming up by March.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
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                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                              > > > >religion....
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                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 570 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              I don't know how religious you are, but one of the things I read in the Bible, that I've never heard preached, was that parents should be raising their children at all times, or always, or never let them out of their sight. In a toss-up between cooler cold water fish in deeper ponds and shallow neighbors children and tresspassers safe ponds, with uncomfortablly warm/hot, cold-water fish, the 'One Nation Under God' scenario you hear now and then does'nt take into account that parents are responsible when their baby falls into a neighbors water containment, and paying government and lawyers to indicate otherwise does what?
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 571 From: Janet Abreu Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              I don't know anything about ponds but don't they need
                                              filters? And if they do won't the agitation of the
                                              water keep it from freezing completely? Janet
                                              --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                              > generally ponds like that never totally freeze,
                                              > there's always some
                                              > open water at the very edge, and that's how the
                                              > gasses escape...
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 28, 2004, at 10:56 PM, The Hamburgs wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Just some thoughts, but holes also allow fish to
                                              > come to surface and
                                              > > probably will coz they're so brainwashed to think
                                              > that there's food
                                              > > when
                                              > > they hear you or see you walking up whether you
                                              > feed them or not.. if
                                              > > you
                                              > > live in a highly populated animal area... they
                                              > also allow animals to
                                              > > sit on
                                              > > the ice and wait for your tasty little fish.� So
                                              > I've never put holes
                                              > > in the
                                              > > ice unless it was deemed necessary.� I've never
                                              > lost fish.� Talked
                                              > > with a
                                              > > couple people at work that got me going on Koi
                                              > ponds.. they also have
                                              > > never
                                              > > broken the ice here.� It really depends on your
                                              > circumstances.� If you
                                              > > had a
                                              > > 300 gallon pond, 14" deep that was loaded with
                                              > leaves and debris and
                                              > > junk..
                                              > > then yeah..� I think i'd make a hole.
                                              > >
                                              > > I do like that idea for melting the ice though...
                                              > boiling hot water in
                                              > > a
                                              > > metal pan set it on the ice.
                                              > >
                                              > > When I asked this one guy at work about his Koi
                                              > pond, he did say that
                                              > > he
                                              > > learned the hard way.. cracked the ice with a
                                              > hammer.. after thaw..
                                              > > all his
                                              > > koi had died.� Since, he has never made a hole in
                                              > the pond.� It
                                              > > actually
                                              > > really surprised me because his pond is only 18"
                                              > deep and maybe 1,000
                                              > > gallons if that.. and his fish did survive.. if i
                                              > was in those
                                              > > circumstances, I probably would have made a hole.�
                                              > He said the ice was
                                              > > probably about 2" thick at the worst, but still no
                                              > fish loss.
                                              > >
                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                              > > To:
                                              > <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:58 PM
                                              > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                              > Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > >��� H'lo,
                                              > > >����� ...........and did a little search in
                                              > GOOGLE
                                              > > >
                                              > > >���������� WHY HOLES IN PONDS IN WINTER?
                                              > > >
                                              > > >����� .............and one of the first
                                              > sites........
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >����http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/nature/pond_care/pond_care.shtml
                                              > > >
                                              > > >����� added light to why and how to noiselessly
                                              > make holes in ponds in
                                              > > winter.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >������������� Joe Pascavage
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Some koi people also say that you must dig a
                                              > pond at LEAST six
                                              > > feet deep
                                              > > to
                                              > > > > have healthy natural environmental koi.� and
                                              > you must have at least
                                              > > 2,000
                                              > > > > callons.� and you can't have no more than this
                                              > amount of fish per
                                              > > gallon,
                                              > > > > That's just taking it too far for me.� You
                                              > have to choose what you
                                              > > think
                                              > > is
                                              > > > > best.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Due to the climate we live in where we're at.,
                                              > we never used
                                              > > heaters.,
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > only ONCE did we break the ice.� Fish have
                                              > lived through it.� We
                                              > > also
                                              > > > > constantly test the water - the feeding habits
                                              > I suggested do work
                                              > > for
                                              > > us
                                              > > > > and the fish.� Just keep in mind that my words
                                              > are only
                                              > > suggestions and
                                              > > how
                                              > > > > we keep our ponds and fish. not requirements
                                              > for all to go by..
                                              > > different
                                              > > > > climates., different conditions, different
                                              > scenarios.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > In general though., or if in doubt, yeah.. I'd
                                              > say keep a hole in
                                              > > the
                                              > > ice.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Also I suggest that you don't break the ice.,
                                              > it "can" cause death
                                              > > to
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > fish from the revirbiration of your pounding
                                              > on the ice.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > And check around on feeding habits and types
                                              > of food.� I was just
                                              > > giving
                                              > > my
                                              > > > > recommendation based upon what's in my head.�
                                              > Some people even
                                              > > switch to
                                              > > > > different food in the winter.� Was only trying
                                              > to get the concept
                                              > > of
                                              > > colder
                                              > > > > it gets less you feed., and that sometimes you
                                              > don't even need to
                                              > > feed
                                              > > 'em
                                              > > > > at all.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > >From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              > > > > >Reply-To:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > >To:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                              > Re:outdoor ponds
                                              > > > > >Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:35:09 -0500
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for
                                              > toxic gasses to escape
                                              > > > > >through when fish are kept in ponds in the
                                              > winter and under 50,
                                              > > you
                                              > > > > >shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose
                                              > the ability to
                                              > > digest food
                                              > > > > >and it just rots in the water, adding to the
                                              > water's overall
                                              > > toxicity.
                                              > > > > >amalthea
                                              > > > > >On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs
                                              > Hamburg wrote:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Hi Erin,
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Shawn here again.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Welll... where we live here.. we don't
                                              > need to bring them in.�
                                              > > Even
                                              > > > > > > when it
                                              > > > > > > freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower
                                              > than about 20�.. rarely
                                              > > in
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > > > 10's.
                                              > > > > > > We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the
                                              > most.� And (I
                                              > > believe) that
                                              > > > > > > if even
                                              > > > > > > other areas of the country if the pond is
                                              > deep enough.. (more
                                              > > than I
                                              > > > > > > think
                                              > > > > > > 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then
                                              > they can survive at
                                              > > those
                                              >
                                              === message truncated ===


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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 572 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                              Hi,

                                              Theres some dust/husk like powder (brownish in colour
                                              ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as anubias
                                              plants. They also get accumulated on the driftwood i
                                              have in my tank.

                                              Its a 55gal planted community tank with Eheim filter.

                                              Can anybody suggest What this is and how can i get rid
                                              of it ??

                                              I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra plankton and
                                              dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my LFS, apart
                                              from blood worms.

                                              Any guidance will highly be appreciated...SuNnY !


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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 573 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/28/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              sometimes it will, some people turn off their filters in the winter. we
                                              keep ours on and it has kept ours open even though it's been frigid for
                                              a month...
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 1:50 AM, Janet Abreu wrote:

                                              > I don't know anything about ponds but don't they need
                                              > filters? And if they do won't the agitation of the
                                              > water keep it from freezing completely? Janet
                                              > --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                              >> generally ponds like that never totally freeze,
                                              >> there's always some
                                              >> open water at the very edge, and that's how the
                                              >> gasses escape...
                                              >> amalthea
                                              >> On Jan 28, 2004, at 10:56 PM, The Hamburgs wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >>> Just some thoughts, but holes also allow fish to
                                              >> come to surface and
                                              >>> probably will coz they're so brainwashed to think
                                              >> that there's food
                                              >>> when
                                              >>> they hear you or see you walking up whether you
                                              >> feed them or not.. if
                                              >>> you
                                              >>> live in a highly populated animal area... they
                                              >> also allow animals to
                                              >>> sit on
                                              >>> the ice and wait for your tasty little fish.  So
                                              >> I've never put holes
                                              >>> in the
                                              >>> ice unless it was deemed necessary.  I've never
                                              >> lost fish.  Talked
                                              >>> with a
                                              >>> couple people at work that got me going on Koi
                                              >> ponds.. they also have
                                              >>> never
                                              >>> broken the ice here.  It really depends on your
                                              >> circumstances.  If you
                                              >>> had a
                                              >>> 300 gallon pond, 14" deep that was loaded with
                                              >> leaves and debris and
                                              >>> junk..
                                              >>> then yeah..  I think i'd make a hole.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> I do like that idea for melting the ice though...
                                              >> boiling hot water in
                                              >>> a
                                              >>> metal pan set it on the ice.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> When I asked this one guy at work about his Koi
                                              >> pond, he did say that
                                              >>> he
                                              >>> learned the hard way.. cracked the ice with a
                                              >> hammer.. after thaw..
                                              >>> all his
                                              >>> koi had died.  Since, he has never made a hole in
                                              >> the pond.  It
                                              >>> actually
                                              >>> really surprised me because his pond is only 18"
                                              >> deep and maybe 1,000
                                              >>> gallons if that.. and his fish did survive.. if i
                                              >> was in those
                                              >>> circumstances, I probably would have made a hole. 
                                              >> He said the ice was
                                              >>> probably about 2" thick at the worst, but still no
                                              >> fish loss.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                              >>> From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                              >>> To:
                                              >> <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:58 PM
                                              >>> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                              >> Re:outdoor ponds
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>>     H'lo,
                                              >>>>       ...........and did a little search in
                                              >> GOOGLE
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>            WHY HOLES IN PONDS IN WINTER?
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>       .............and one of the first
                                              >> sites........
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>
                                              >>     http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/nature/pond_care/pond_care.shtml
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>       added light to why and how to noiselessly
                                              >> make holes in ponds in
                                              >>> winter.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>               Joe Pascavage
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Some koi people also say that you must dig a
                                              >> pond at LEAST six
                                              >>> feet deep
                                              >>> to
                                              >>>>> have healthy natural environmental koi.  and
                                              >> you must have at least
                                              >>> 2,000
                                              >>>>> callons.  and you can't have no more than this
                                              >> amount of fish per
                                              >>> gallon,
                                              >>>>> That's just taking it too far for me.  You
                                              >> have to choose what you
                                              >>> think
                                              >>> is
                                              >>>>> best.
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Due to the climate we live in where we're at.,
                                              >> we never used
                                              >>> heaters.,
                                              >>> and
                                              >>>>> only ONCE did we break the ice.  Fish have
                                              >> lived through it.  We
                                              >>> also
                                              >>>>> constantly test the water - the feeding habits
                                              >> I suggested do work
                                              >>> for
                                              >>> us
                                              >>>>> and the fish.  Just keep in mind that my words
                                              >> are only
                                              >>> suggestions and
                                              >>> how
                                              >>>>> we keep our ponds and fish. not requirements
                                              >> for all to go by..
                                              >>> different
                                              >>>>> climates., different conditions, different
                                              >> scenarios.
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> In general though., or if in doubt, yeah.. I'd
                                              >> say keep a hole in
                                              >>> the
                                              >>> ice.
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Also I suggest that you don't break the ice.,
                                              >> it "can" cause death
                                              >>> to
                                              >>> the
                                              >>>>> fish from the revirbiration of your pounding
                                              >> on the ice.
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> And check around on feeding habits and types
                                              >> of food.  I was just
                                              >>> giving
                                              >>> my
                                              >>>>> recommendation based upon what's in my head. 
                                              >> Some people even
                                              >>> switch to
                                              >>>>> different food in the winter.  Was only trying
                                              >> to get the concept
                                              >>> of
                                              >>> colder
                                              >>>>> it gets less you feed., and that sometimes you
                                              >> don't even need to
                                              >>> feed
                                              >>> 'em
                                              >>>>> at all.
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>>> From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              >>>>>> Reply-To:
                                              >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>>>>> To:
                                              >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>>>>> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                              >> Re:outdoor ponds
                                              >>>>>> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 16:35:09 -0500
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>> there must ALWAYS be a hole in the ice for
                                              >> toxic gasses to escape
                                              >>>>>> through when fish are kept in ponds in the
                                              >> winter and under 50,
                                              >>> you
                                              >>>>>> shouldn't feed your fish at all as they lose
                                              >> the ability to
                                              >>> digest food
                                              >>>>>> and it just rots in the water, adding to the
                                              >> water's overall
                                              >>> toxicity.
                                              >>>>>> amalthea
                                              >>>>>> On Jan 28, 2004, at 4:31 PM, Mr and Mrs
                                              >> Hamburg wrote:
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> Hi Erin,
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> Shawn here again.
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> Welll... where we live here.. we don't
                                              >> need to bring them in. 
                                              >>> Even
                                              >>>>>>> when it
                                              >>>>>>> freezes.. but it doesn't get any lower
                                              >> than about 20°.. rarely
                                              >>> in
                                              >>> the
                                              >>>>>>> 10's.
                                              >>>>>>> We get maybe 2" of ice at the top at the
                                              >> most.  And (I
                                              >>> believe) that
                                              >>>>>>> if even
                                              >>>>>>> other areas of the country if the pond is
                                              >> deep enough.. (more
                                              >>> than I
                                              >>>>>>> think
                                              >>>>>>> 2'.. but i'd suggest more than 3') then
                                              >> they can survive at
                                              >>> those
                                              >>
                                              > === message truncated ===
                                              >
                                              >
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                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 574 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              Again, just our personal experiences, ppl can take what they want outt this.
                                              this is how I learned about ponds. Haven't read a single book or anything..
                                              maybe that's my problem. lol

                                              Our pond freezes over sometimes.. not very often. when it freezes over, it
                                              completely freezes over. We will turn off our pump for the circulation and
                                              just wait it out in fear of causing harm to our $800 pump LOL. During the
                                              winter we have a heat lamp on in the pump house just for kicks. Our other
                                              pond always freezes over every year I'd say.. it's a small one with
                                              shubunkin. They survive that one as well.

                                              This year was a doozey.. we had TONS of ice and tons of snow (at least for
                                              where we live) It was soo crazy for us, that they shut things down for
                                              basically a week EVERYthing! Flippin we were lucky the grocery stores were
                                              open.. was worse than Christmas Day.. sheeesh.. Our pond did not have any
                                              open water at the edge... I know that for sure - couldn't even see where the
                                              pond was at!

                                              Every other year, i'd say peoples ponds freeze over an inch or so (with
                                              absolutely no unfrozen sections.. either it all freezes or nothing freezes.)
                                              Every four years, ponds will freeze over maybe 2 inches. every five to ten
                                              years, we'll have nasty ice storms, freezing, melting, more freezing, snow..
                                              makes it interesting LOL. The freezes last maybe a week to three weeks at
                                              the most. It's typically over a few days and that's it. This year it was
                                              weeks.

                                              My co-workers I was talking about.. due to how his pond is set up, he turns
                                              his off in the winter all the time and it becomes frozen over almost every
                                              year. No unfrozen water.. in fact if you try to break the ice, you can
                                              cause damage to the pond liner... that's what happened the first time. he
                                              lost the fish, damaged the liner.. very unlucky year for him I guess hehehe.
                                              I'll have to tell him bout the hot water in the pot thing.

                                              if Amalthea is correct in her generalizations, I guess I work a bunch of
                                              oddballs and have far from normal parents LOL. Coz their ponds always
                                              freeze over and we don't have fish loss and the testing we do on the water
                                              always comes back like it does year round.

                                              In summ., I have read about utilizing heaters that float on the water, we
                                              have that option., we have never bothered with doing this and it has worked
                                              for us. We weighed the pros and cons, and for us there are NO sensible pros
                                              to making holes in the ice. BUT ., that could be due to the climate we live
                                              in. you really have to do what works for you :)

                                              gonna leave this one alone from here., post is getting old.

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:12 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds


                                              generally ponds like that never totally freeze, there's always some
                                              open water at the very edge, and that's how the gasses escape...
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 28, 2004, at 10:56 PM, The Hamburgs wrote:

                                              > Just some thoughts, but holes also allow fish to come to surface and
                                              > probably will coz they're so brainwashed to think that there's food
                                              > when
                                              > they hear you or see you walking up whether you feed them or not.. if
                                              > you
                                              > live in a highly populated animal area... they also allow animals to
                                              > sit on
                                              > the ice and wait for your tasty little fish. So I've never put holes
                                              > in the
                                              > ice unless it was deemed necessary. I've never lost fish. Talked
                                              > with a
                                              > couple people at work that got me going on Koi ponds.. they also have
                                              > never
                                              > broken the ice here. It really depends on your circumstances. If you
                                              > had a
                                              > 300 gallon pond, 14" deep that was loaded with leaves and debris and
                                              > junk..
                                              > then yeah.. I think i'd make a hole.
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 575 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Platys/Cycling/and other stuff I had considered live plants and just felt like I needed to learn fish before trying to raise fish and a garden at the same time.  Have to have a special light and such.  I  might pick up a few live ones and see how they do.

                                              As far as the angels go, I was told to definitely buy them as babies so they grow up with the others so I will definitely buy babies.

                                              I tested the water again this morning.  Still no ammonia or nitrites.  I won't be going back up to where I saw the platys until end of Feb. so I'll just be patient and wait I guess.  Sooner or later something has to show up in the water.  

                                              Thanks for all your help.

                                              Mary

                                              From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:59:15 -0800 (PST)
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Platys/Cycling/and other stuff


                                              Hi Mary,

                                              Its a nice setup u have. but i would suggest having
                                              some live plants in it as well. For starters u can go
                                              in for the Harty ones like Amazon Sword, Java Fern,
                                              valisneria etc..

                                              I love angles and so i would suggest u go in for
                                              angles which are small. So once they grow then u can
                                              go in for a bigger tank like what happened in my case
                                              :*wink*

                                              You can take the water sample to your LFS and get it
                                              tested to check if the cycling is complete and ready
                                              to add the platys..

                                              While adding fishes please first add the platys ( 3 -
                                              4 ) then after about a week and a half add the neons (
                                              4 - 5 ) and after about 3 weeks add the angles only 2.

                                              Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                              --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                              > It's a 29 gal.  I'm so engrossed that what I would
                                              > hope to do is get another
                                              > aquarium later and move the angels then.  Gotta get
                                              > this thing to cycle
                                              > first though.  I don't have to have the angels
                                              > though.  I loved those
                                              > platys, so I may get some of those and decide I'm
                                              > happy without the angels.
                                              > I'll get more plants if you think I need more.  A
                                              > picture of my tank as it
                                              > is right now is in the photos section.  Check it out
                                              > and let me know if I
                                              > need more plants since I have that rock with the
                                              > holes in it.
                                              >
                                              > THanks
                                              > Mary
                                              >
                                              > From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                              > Reply-To:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:34:58 -0800 (PST)
                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                              > Platys/Cycling/and other stuff
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Hi Mary,
                                              >
                                              > My friend has in his 55Gal tank, platys, tetras,
                                              > black
                                              > skirts tetras and adult angles.
                                              >
                                              > But i think the key to his platys surviving is the
                                              > good number of plants in his tank and also the size.
                                              >
                                              > What is the size of your acq ?? cause the angles
                                              > will
                                              > grow big and will need huge space something like a
                                              > 20gal tank for a pair of angles.
                                              >
                                              > Hope this helps....SuNnY !
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Also
                                              > --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > > I thought I had resent this message since I had
                                              > not
                                              > > a any response, but I'm
                                              > > not finding the resend, so I'll try again.  I'm
                                              > > going to add to it since it
                                              > > was sent several days ago.
                                              > >
                                              > > I visited a store in College Station while I was
                                              > > there last weekend and they
                                              > > had the most beautiful fish!  Gorgeous baby
                                              > angels!
                                              > > I wanted them so bad,
                                              > > but tank is on day 10 of cycling and no ammonia or
                                              > > nitrites so far.  When do
                                              > > you usually start seeing the nitrites and ammonia?
                                              > > I thought the peak was
                                              > > around 14 days.  I started the tank with Stress
                                              > Coat
                                              > > and Stress Zyme, but
                                              > > have not put any more chemicals in since day 1.
                                              > >
                                              > > They also had platys in every color imaginable!  I
                                              > > asked if they were
                                              > > altered in any way and they said no.  They do not
                                              > > sell any fish that are
                                              > > injected or painted in any way.  Guarantee for 7
                                              > > days as long as you follow
                                              > > their recommendations and don't put fish in with
                                              > > others they said not to.
                                              > > Is this a good guarantee?
                                              > >
                                              > > How will platys do with the black skirted tetras
                                              > > that are cycling my tank
                                              > > and then the 2 angels I will add at the end.  They
                                              > > recommended putting in
                                              > > all the platys, then adding the baby angels as
                                              > they
                                              > > very last fish.
                                              > >
                                              > > Have ya'll seen platys that are almost as vivid as
                                              > > salt water fish?  Red,
                                              > > orange, pink, yellow, light blue, etc.  A real
                                              > > spectrum!  I don't want them
                                              > > if they really have been altered in some way.
                                              > >
                                              > > TTYL
                                              > > Mary
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 576 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: saving water?
                                              I was wondering if it would be okay to fill a rinsed out milk carton with
                                              water and condition it, dechlorinate it, etc. Would it be okay to let it
                                              sit and just use it as needed to fill aquariums when evaporation has
                                              occured? Didn't know if the sitting water could go bad and make the fish
                                              ill.

                                              Thanks
                                              Mary
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 577 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              In a message dated 1/28/2004 7:07:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, thehamburgs@... writes:
                                              Also I suggest that you don't break the ice., it "can" cause death to the
                                              fish from the revirbiration of your pounding on the ice.
                                              What about drilling a hole?
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 578 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              One thing to be thankful that we don't have to deal with, then! It has to
                                              get VERY cold for water to freeze here. Currently its 25 degrees, and even
                                              the PUDDLES are not frozen. Granted, my front porch has a thin layer of ice
                                              (grin ... made it interesting going down the steps with munchkins) but the
                                              puddles and ditches and things are still wet, so I'm assuming my mom's pond
                                              is doing fine as well. Not sure what sort of a set up she has got going ...
                                              I'd have to ask.

                                              Erin
                                              Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                              Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                              com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              -------Original Message-------

                                              From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: 01/29/04 08:53:08
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:outdoor ponds

                                              This year was a doozey.. we had TONS of ice and tons of snow
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 579 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering around
                                              unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.

                                              My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back yard
                                              without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the backyard while
                                              I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees and
                                              undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for SNAKES. Not
                                              to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run the
                                              streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to be close
                                              enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into our yard.

                                              Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are choosing the
                                              easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual PARENTING route
                                              yeah a fence would be a good idea.

                                              Erin
                                              Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                              Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                              com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              -------Original Message-------

                                              From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds
                                              (fencing in)

                                              fence holes were still
                                              there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby crawled
                                              over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died. Owner
                                              of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 580 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: outdoor ponds
                                              you'll get the same vibrations. just use hot water, it's the least
                                              dangerous.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 11:53 AM, Deenerz@... wrote:

                                              > In a message dated 1/28/2004 7:07:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                                              > thehamburgs@... writes:
                                              > Also I suggest that you don't break the ice., it "can" cause death to
                                              > the
                                              > fish from the revirbiration of your pounding on the ice.
                                              > What about drilling a hole?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >  
                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >  
                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >


                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 581 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              i don't really think it's a matter of not parenting. for even the best
                                              of parents, accidents happen. it's tragic, but you can become
                                              distracted for less than a minute and in that time, a child can die. is
                                              it really so offensive that the law finds a child's life precious
                                              enough to impose safety regulations on society to protect them? it's
                                              somewhat offensive that you wouldn't want to do whatever you could to
                                              help out possibly new and frazzled (or old and frazzled) parents.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                              > You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              > parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering
                                              > around
                                              > unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.
                                              >
                                              > My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back yard
                                              > without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the backyard
                                              > while
                                              > I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees and
                                              > undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for SNAKES.
                                              > Not
                                              > to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run the
                                              > streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to be
                                              > close
                                              > enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into our
                                              > yard.
                                              >
                                              > Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are choosing
                                              > the
                                              > easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual PARENTING
                                              > route
                                              > yeah a fence would be a good idea.
                                              >
                                              > Erin
                                              > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              >
                                              > Celtic Parentshttp://www.celticparents.com
                                              > ~Lair of the Anime Witches
                                              > ~http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Sitehttp://www.celticparents
                                              > com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              > -------Original Message-------
                                              >
                                              > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              > ponds
                                              > (fencing in)
                                              >
                                              > fence holes were still
                                              > there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby
                                              > crawled
                                              > over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died.
                                              > Owner
                                              > of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              >
                                              > ADVERTISEMENT
                                              > <image.tiff>
                                              > <image.tiff>
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >  
                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >  
                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              religion....
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 582 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: My New Tank!
                                              I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/) about a month ago. It's
                                              a 30 gal. I'm using a Whisper 30-60 filter with my intake below the
                                              gravel (not an undergravel filter though). It has a slotted
                                              trapezoidal foot that's about 1" by 3" that attaches to the intake
                                              and sits on the bottom of the tank under the gravel. I chose this
                                              method because I have a huge filter and tiny fish. I'm also using a
                                              Visi-Therm Deluxe submersible heater with "Click Set" temperature
                                              select (accurate within 1 degree). The rocks on the left and right
                                              I hand picked from the Lockington Dam here in Piqua, Ohio where I
                                              live, and the coral came from the Gulf of Mexico. I'm also using a
                                              green leafy backdrop and natural rust colored gravel. I know it
                                              looks kind of bare right now. I want to put in some plants and I
                                              want to go live, but I've never used live plants before.
                                              Suggestions? Tips? Strategies? I'm still slowly putting fish in.
                                              So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra Danios, three
                                              Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco, and two Zebra
                                              looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright red with black
                                              horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow Fish". I plan on
                                              putting in a colorful mix of tetras to finish out the tank. So far
                                              the fish are extremely lively and my water tests well within
                                              tolerances. I'm very pleased at the tank's appearance and look
                                              forward to a reply on the live plants.

                                              The Dude.
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 583 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: My New Tank!
                                              everyone, when you click the link below, just make sure to remove the
                                              last parenthetical or you can't see it, that is, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/
                                              :)
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 4:01 PM, The Dude wrote:

                                              > I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/)about a month ago. It's
                                              > a 30 gal. I'm using a Whisper 30-60 filter with my intake below the
                                              > gravel (not an undergravel filter though). It has a slotted
                                              > trapezoidal foot that's about 1" by 3" that attaches to the intake
                                              > and sits on the bottom of the tank under the gravel. I chose this
                                              > method because I have a huge filter and tiny fish. I'm also using a
                                              > Visi-Therm Deluxe submersible heater with "Click Set" temperature
                                              > select (accurate within 1 degree). The rocks on the left and right
                                              > I hand picked from the Lockington Dam here in Piqua, Ohio where I
                                              > live, and the coral came from the Gulf of Mexico. I'm also using a
                                              > green leafy backdrop and natural rust colored gravel. I know it
                                              > looks kind of bare right now. I want to put in some plants and I
                                              > want to go live, but I've never used live plants before.
                                              > Suggestions? Tips? Strategies? I'm still slowly putting fish in.
                                              > So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra Danios, three
                                              > Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco, and two Zebra
                                              > looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright red with black
                                              > horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow Fish". I plan on
                                              > putting in a colorful mix of tetras to finish out the tank. So far
                                              > the fish are extremely lively and my water tests well within
                                              > tolerances. I'm very pleased at the tank's appearance and look
                                              > forward to a reply on the live plants.
                                              >
                                              > The Dude.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >  
                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >  
                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >


                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 584 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: My New Tank!
                                              The Dude,

                                              I think the tank looks nice! I have no experience with live plants to share,
                                              but I was wondering how you were liking the Glow Fish? I was looking into
                                              getting some, but the only local store here that carries them has them
                                              marked up to $10 each, and for schooling fish that makes them pretty
                                              cost-prohibitive. BTW, the fish aren't JUST that lovely red color ... they
                                              appear to glow under a black light. Here is the site with more info about
                                              them ... http://www.glofish.com

                                              Currently I've got a 15 gallon with one pleco and two Black Mollies.
                                              (Originally it was three black mollies, but one of the males died from
                                              fungus. I've got the fungus cleared out of the tank now, so I should be able
                                              to get a few more fish in a couple of weeks or so.) Hubby and I are thinking
                                              of getting a small tank to use as a nursery for the Black Mollies if they
                                              decide to breed for us. We won't be pushing the matter, but we won't be
                                              complaining either! :) Not bad for letting my 3 year old pick out the fish
                                              we use to cycle the tank.

                                              Erin
                                              Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                              Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                              com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              -------Original Message-------

                                              From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: 01/29/04 16:05:05
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] My New Tank!

                                              I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/) about a month ago. **snip**

                                              So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra Danios, three
                                              Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco, and two Zebra
                                              looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright red with black
                                              horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow Fish".
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 585 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: My New Tank!
                                              Hi The Dude,

                                              I to am from Ohio the frozen tundra!. I for got to tell everyone when I was
                                              setting up our 75 gallon tank I was also cleaning up a 20 gallon where the
                                              fish were originally in. And while I was cleaning I noticed a plant that
                                              came out funny from the tank. I showed my husband since I could not see the
                                              plant to well. And he was shocked to find that it was a live plant. I forgot
                                              I planted it in with the other tank when I found it floating in our water
                                              garden pond. And it is now about 5 inches. We really could not tell the
                                              difference between the real and the fake. So we put it in the big tank.
                                              eventually I want to put in live plants. But we will have to see. I have no
                                              under gravel filter. We plan on putting in more plants but they have not
                                              arrived yet. We will take pictures when we get them set in.
                                              Carol/Rainbow Rose

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "The Dude" <ironheadude@...>
                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 4:01 PM
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] My New Tank!


                                              > I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/) about a month ago. It's
                                              > a 30 gal. I'm using a Whisper 30-60 filter with my intake below the
                                              > gravel (not an undergravel filter though). It has a slotted
                                              > trapezoidal foot that's about 1" by 3" that attaches to the intake
                                              > and sits on the bottom of the tank under the gravel. I chose this
                                              > method because I have a huge filter and tiny fish. I'm also using a
                                              > Visi-Therm Deluxe submersible heater with "Click Set" temperature
                                              > select (accurate within 1 degree). The rocks on the left and right
                                              > I hand picked from the Lockington Dam here in Piqua, Ohio where I
                                              > live, and the coral came from the Gulf of Mexico. I'm also using a
                                              > green leafy backdrop and natural rust colored gravel. I know it
                                              > looks kind of bare right now. I want to put in some plants and I
                                              > want to go live, but I've never used live plants before.
                                              > Suggestions? Tips? Strategies? I'm still slowly putting fish in.
                                              > So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra Danios, three
                                              > Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco, and two Zebra
                                              > looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright red with black
                                              > horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow Fish". I plan on
                                              > putting in a colorful mix of tetras to finish out the tank. So far
                                              > the fish are extremely lively and my water tests well within
                                              > tolerances. I'm very pleased at the tank's appearance and look
                                              > forward to a reply on the live plants.
                                              >
                                              > The Dude.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 586 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: My New Tank!
                                              One thing that strikes me right away is that you are using coral in a
                                              freshwater aquarium. Coral can adversely set up a basic pH in your tank.
                                              Whether it does or not depends on original pH or the pH you are looking for
                                              and also on a few other factors. Best not to use the coral unless you are
                                              willing to keep a close check on pH.

                                              Another quick comment is that fancy guppies
                                              are in danger with many fish because their flowing fins attract nipping. You
                                              may already be seeing this, especially with your danios.

                                              Also, by placing your filter intake under the gravel, you have eliminated it
                                              ability to provide mechanical filtration (removal of fairly large
                                              particles). But you have improved its biological filtering power. In most
                                              cases, this tradeoff is not a good one cause you get biofiltration without
                                              the help of a gravel-covered intake.

                                              Mike

                                              Mike
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "The Dude" <ironheadude@...>
                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 1:01 PM
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] My New Tank!


                                              > I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/) about a month ago. It's
                                              > a 30 gal. I'm using a Whisper 30-60 filter with my intake below the
                                              > gravel (not an undergravel filter though). It has a slotted
                                              > trapezoidal foot that's about 1" by 3" that attaches to the intake
                                              > and sits on the bottom of the tank under the gravel. I chose this
                                              > method because I have a huge filter and tiny fish. I'm also using a
                                              > Visi-Therm Deluxe submersible heater with "Click Set" temperature
                                              > select (accurate within 1 degree). The rocks on the left and right
                                              > I hand picked from the Lockington Dam here in Piqua, Ohio where I
                                              > live, and the coral came from the Gulf of Mexico. I'm also using a
                                              > green leafy backdrop and natural rust colored gravel. I know it
                                              > looks kind of bare right now. I want to put in some plants and I
                                              > want to go live, but I've never used live plants before.
                                              > Suggestions? Tips? Strategies? I'm still slowly putting fish in.
                                              > So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra Danios, three
                                              > Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco, and two Zebra
                                              > looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright red with black
                                              > horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow Fish". I plan on
                                              > putting in a colorful mix of tetras to finish out the tank. So far
                                              > the fish are extremely lively and my water tests well within
                                              > tolerances. I'm very pleased at the tank's appearance and look
                                              > forward to a reply on the live plants.
                                              >
                                              > The Dude.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 587 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: saving water?
                                              Hi,
                                              I'm a little rusty about just about everything, but one of the ways of de-chlorinating water is having is sit 'till the chlorine evaporates. I don't know how long this process takes. As a matter of fact, when I was starting fish-keeping, after hearing about the aforementioned, I bought a large-wheeled trash-can (plastic)to store water for dechlorination (partly or primarily because of professionals recomending keeping chemicals out of the water, and I was concerned about de-chlorinator). In retrospect, I realize I should have checked with the manufacturer and found if chemicals were present on (or in) the plastic, that could dissolve into the tank water. Mold-release agents could be hazardous, and A Dr. Axelrod, an icthyologist, who also has a Corydora named after him, said keep away from plastics containing camphor, or having a camphor odor. There's a lot to be known about plastics. You could call your local Dairy to find how they steralize their containers, but they may not be able to tell you what happens to the containers during manufacture.As for your tap-water, if it containes chloramine, I don't know about eliminating it by any means but additives.
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 588 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              Almathea,
                                              Ok. If the baby/child falls into one of God's lakes, rivers, they don't
                                              get paid for it. They don't sue God, and may be permanently labeled as
                                              negligent. Why should parents be financially rewarded for allowing their
                                              children to tresspass into a neighbors pond, if injury or death results?
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:50 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              ponds (fencing in)


                                              i don't really think it's a matter of not parenting. for even the best
                                              of parents, accidents happen. it's tragic, but you can become
                                              distracted for less than a minute and in that time, a child can die. is
                                              it really so offensive that the law finds a child's life precious
                                              enough to impose safety regulations on society to protect them? it's
                                              somewhat offensive that you wouldn't want to do whatever you could to
                                              help out possibly new and frazzled (or old and frazzled) parents.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                              > You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              > parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering
                                              > around
                                              > unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.
                                              >
                                              > My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back yard
                                              > without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the backyard
                                              > while
                                              > I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees and
                                              > undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for SNAKES.
                                              > Not
                                              > to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run the
                                              > streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to be
                                              > close
                                              > enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into our
                                              > yard.
                                              >
                                              > Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are choosing
                                              > the
                                              > easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual PARENTING
                                              > route
                                              > yeah a fence would be a good idea.
                                              >
                                              > Erin
                                              > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              >
                                              > Celtic Parentshttp://www.celticparents.com
                                              > ~Lair of the Anime Witches
                                              > ~http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Sitehttp://www.celticparents
                                              > com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              > -------Original Message-------
                                              >
                                              > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              > ponds
                                              > (fencing in)
                                              >
                                              > fence holes were still
                                              > there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby
                                              > crawled
                                              > over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died.
                                              > Owner
                                              > of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              >
                                              > ADVERTISEMENT
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                                              >
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                                              >
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                                              >
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                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              religion....




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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 589 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              the parents aren't "paid" or "rewarded" for the privilege of having
                                              their child die, the neighbors are penalized for having what is known
                                              in the US as an "attractive nuisance. this penalty is so that in the
                                              future, they will take heed of the law, and it serves to warn others.
                                              contrary to popular belief, even in the us we try to take a "global
                                              village" approach to raising a child. under you logic, people without
                                              children should not have to pay school taxes. as a community of
                                              civilized people we all agree to invest in the future, and we all agree
                                              that the future we will invest in is children. because of this, we have
                                              laws that protect the welfare of children, such as those that state
                                              that pools, ponds, and other bodies of water that my lure a curious
                                              child should be fenced.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:27 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                              > Almathea,
                                              > Ok. If the baby/child falls into one of God's lakes, rivers, they
                                              > don't
                                              > get paid for it. They don't sue God, and may be permanently labeled as
                                              > negligent. Why should parents be financially rewarded for allowing
                                              > their
                                              > children to tresspass into a neighbors pond, if injury or death
                                              > results?
                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:50 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              > Re:outdoor
                                              > ponds (fencing in)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > i don't really think it's a matter of not parenting. for even the best
                                              > of parents, accidents happen. it's tragic, but you can become
                                              > distracted for less than a minute and in that time, a child can die. is
                                              > it really so offensive that the law finds a child's life precious
                                              > enough to impose safety regulations on society to protect them? it's
                                              > somewhat offensive that you wouldn't want to do whatever you could to
                                              > help out possibly new and frazzled (or old and frazzled) parents.
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                              >
                                              >> You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              >> parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering
                                              >> around
                                              >> unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.
                                              >>
                                              >> My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back
                                              >> yard
                                              >> without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the backyard
                                              >> while
                                              >> I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees
                                              >> and
                                              >> undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for SNAKES.
                                              >> Not
                                              >> to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run the
                                              >> streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to be
                                              >> close
                                              >> enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into our
                                              >> yard.
                                              >>
                                              >> Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are choosing
                                              >> the
                                              >> easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual PARENTING
                                              >> route
                                              >> yeah a fence would be a good idea.
                                              >>
                                              >> Erin
                                              >> Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              >> MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              >> AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              >>
                                              >> Celtic Parentshttp://www.celticparents.com
                                              >> ~Lair of the Anime Witches
                                              >> ~http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              >> Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Sitehttp://www.celticparents
                                              >> com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              >> -------Original Message-------
                                              >>
                                              >> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              >> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              >> ponds
                                              >> (fencing in)
                                              >>
                                              >> fence holes were still
                                              >> there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby
                                              >> crawled
                                              >> over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died.
                                              >> Owner
                                              >> of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              >>
                                              >> ADVERTISEMENT
                                              >> <image.tiff>
                                              >> <image.tiff>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>
                                              >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >>
                                              >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>
                                              >> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > religion....
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
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                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                                              > ~->
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                                              >
                                              >


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                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 590 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              additionally, most of these parents are not permanently labeled as
                                              "negligent." in most of these cases the death is declared a legitimate
                                              accident as the lawmakers in our country are keenly aware of how easy
                                              it can be to turn away from a child for the very few minutes it takes a
                                              tragedy to occur...
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:27 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                              > Almathea,
                                              > Ok. If the baby/child falls into one of God's lakes, rivers, they
                                              > don't
                                              > get paid for it. They don't sue God, and may be permanently labeled as
                                              > negligent. Why should parents be financially rewarded for allowing
                                              > their
                                              > children to tresspass into a neighbors pond, if injury or death
                                              > results?
                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:50 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              > Re:outdoor
                                              > ponds (fencing in)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > i don't really think it's a matter of not parenting. for even the best
                                              > of parents, accidents happen. it's tragic, but you can become
                                              > distracted for less than a minute and in that time, a child can die. is
                                              > it really so offensive that the law finds a child's life precious
                                              > enough to impose safety regulations on society to protect them? it's
                                              > somewhat offensive that you wouldn't want to do whatever you could to
                                              > help out possibly new and frazzled (or old and frazzled) parents.
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                              >
                                              >> You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              >> parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering
                                              >> around
                                              >> unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.
                                              >>
                                              >> My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back
                                              >> yard
                                              >> without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the backyard
                                              >> while
                                              >> I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees
                                              >> and
                                              >> undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for SNAKES.
                                              >> Not
                                              >> to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run the
                                              >> streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to be
                                              >> close
                                              >> enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into our
                                              >> yard.
                                              >>
                                              >> Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are choosing
                                              >> the
                                              >> easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual PARENTING
                                              >> route
                                              >> yeah a fence would be a good idea.
                                              >>
                                              >> Erin
                                              >> Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              >> MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              >> AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              >>
                                              >> Celtic Parentshttp://www.celticparents.com
                                              >> ~Lair of the Anime Witches
                                              >> ~http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              >> Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Sitehttp://www.celticparents
                                              >> com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              >> -------Original Message-------
                                              >>
                                              >> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              >> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              >> ponds
                                              >> (fencing in)
                                              >>
                                              >> fence holes were still
                                              >> there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby
                                              >> crawled
                                              >> over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died.
                                              >> Owner
                                              >> of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              >>
                                              >> ADVERTISEMENT
                                              >> <image.tiff>
                                              >> <image.tiff>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>
                                              >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >>
                                              >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>
                                              >> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > religion....
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > ---------------------~-->
                                              > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                              > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
                                              > Canada.
                                              > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ctpplB/TM
                                              > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > ~->
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
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                                              >
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                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 591 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              Recently, at least in the last ten years or so, there was a documentary
                                              about parents who ALLOWED their children to to be unsupervised, in instances
                                              where your understanding of the situation, among others applied. They
                                              learned to form support-groups to increase their awareness of how to
                                              govern/supervise their children. I've heard several times from leaders that
                                              Television, etc. is the national parent. The initial thread related to
                                              dangers around ponds, and how tresspassing can be a financial reward to
                                              parents . If, as you said, "..most of these cases the death is declared a
                                              legitimate accident', why does suing the neighbor who has a pond sound like
                                              the solution to an accident?
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:33 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              ponds (fencing in)


                                              additionally, most of these parents are not permanently labeled as
                                              "negligent." in most of these cases the death is declared a legitimate
                                              accident as the lawmakers in our country are keenly aware of how easy
                                              it can be to turn away from a child for the very few minutes it takes a
                                              tragedy to occur...
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:27 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                              > Almathea,
                                              > Ok. If the baby/child falls into one of God's lakes, rivers, they
                                              > don't
                                              > get paid for it. They don't sue God, and may be permanently labeled as
                                              > negligent. Why should parents be financially rewarded for allowing
                                              > their
                                              > children to tresspass into a neighbors pond, if injury or death
                                              > results?
                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:50 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              > Re:outdoor
                                              > ponds (fencing in)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > i don't really think it's a matter of not parenting. for even the best
                                              > of parents, accidents happen. it's tragic, but you can become
                                              > distracted for less than a minute and in that time, a child can die. is
                                              > it really so offensive that the law finds a child's life precious
                                              > enough to impose safety regulations on society to protect them? it's
                                              > somewhat offensive that you wouldn't want to do whatever you could to
                                              > help out possibly new and frazzled (or old and frazzled) parents.
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                              >
                                              >> You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              >> parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering
                                              >> around
                                              >> unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.
                                              >>
                                              >> My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back
                                              >> yard
                                              >> without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the backyard
                                              >> while
                                              >> I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees
                                              >> and
                                              >> undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for SNAKES.
                                              >> Not
                                              >> to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run the
                                              >> streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to be
                                              >> close
                                              >> enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into our
                                              >> yard.
                                              >>
                                              >> Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are choosing
                                              >> the
                                              >> easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual PARENTING
                                              >> route
                                              >> yeah a fence would be a good idea.
                                              >>
                                              >> Erin
                                              >> Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              >> MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              >> AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              >>
                                              >> Celtic Parentshttp://www.celticparents.com
                                              >> ~Lair of the Anime Witches
                                              >> ~http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              >> Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Sitehttp://www.celticparents
                                              >> com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              >> -------Original Message-------
                                              >>
                                              >> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              >> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              >> ponds
                                              >> (fencing in)
                                              >>
                                              >> fence holes were still
                                              >> there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby
                                              >> crawled
                                              >> over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died.
                                              >> Owner
                                              >> of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              >>
                                              >> ADVERTISEMENT
                                              >> <image.tiff>
                                              >> <image.tiff>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>
                                              >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >>
                                              >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>
                                              >> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > religion....
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > ---------------------~-->
                                              > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                              > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
                                              > Canada.
                                              > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ctpplB/TM
                                              > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > ~->
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
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                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              don't be afraid to scream...





                                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                                              To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

                                              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 592 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              it is not a solution, as i stated it is a warning to others that the
                                              incident may not recur. of course there are some bad parents, but to
                                              rule out safety measures because of this is ridiculous. i get the
                                              feeling that you're either playing devil's advocate or being
                                              deliberately obtuse on this point, either of which is fine, however if
                                              i'm wrong and you honestly believe that there should be no societal
                                              measures taken to ensure the safety of children on the whole,
                                              regardless of parental intervention. then i worry for you and your
                                              neighbor's children.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:48 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                              > Recently, at least in the last ten years or so, there was a documentary
                                              > about parents who ALLOWED their children to to be unsupervised, in
                                              > instances
                                              > where your understanding of the situation, among others applied. They
                                              > learned to form support-groups to increase their awareness of how to
                                              > govern/supervise their children. I've heard several times from leaders
                                              > that
                                              > Television, etc. is the national parent. The initial thread related to
                                              > dangers around ponds, and how tresspassing can be a financial reward to
                                              > parents . If, as you said, "..most of these cases the death is
                                              > declared a
                                              > legitimate accident', why does suing the neighbor who has a pond
                                              > sound like
                                              > the solution to an accident?
                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:33 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              > Re:outdoor
                                              > ponds (fencing in)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > additionally, most of these parents are not permanently labeled as
                                              > "negligent." in most of these cases the death is declared a legitimate
                                              > accident as the lawmakers in our country are keenly aware of how easy
                                              > it can be to turn away from a child for the very few minutes it takes a
                                              > tragedy to occur...
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:27 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                              >
                                              >> Almathea,
                                              >> Ok. If the baby/child falls into one of God's lakes, rivers, they
                                              >> don't
                                              >> get paid for it. They don't sue God, and may be permanently labeled
                                              >> as
                                              >> negligent. Why should parents be financially rewarded for allowing
                                              >> their
                                              >> children to tresspass into a neighbors pond, if injury or death
                                              >> results?
                                              >> Joe Pascavage
                                              >> ----- Original Message -----
                                              >> From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              >> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:50 PM
                                              >> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              >> Re:outdoor
                                              >> ponds (fencing in)
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> i don't really think it's a matter of not parenting. for even the best
                                              >> of parents, accidents happen. it's tragic, but you can become
                                              >> distracted for less than a minute and in that time, a child can die.
                                              >> is
                                              >> it really so offensive that the law finds a child's life precious
                                              >> enough to impose safety regulations on society to protect them? it's
                                              >> somewhat offensive that you wouldn't want to do whatever you could to
                                              >> help out possibly new and frazzled (or old and frazzled) parents.
                                              >> amalthea
                                              >> On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >>> You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              >>> parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering
                                              >>> around
                                              >>> unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back
                                              >>> yard
                                              >>> without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the
                                              >>> backyard
                                              >>> while
                                              >>> I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees
                                              >>> and
                                              >>> undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for
                                              >>> SNAKES.
                                              >>> Not
                                              >>> to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run
                                              >>> the
                                              >>> streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to
                                              >>> be
                                              >>> close
                                              >>> enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into
                                              >>> our
                                              >>> yard.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are choosing
                                              >>> the
                                              >>> easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual
                                              >>> PARENTING
                                              >>> route
                                              >>> yeah a fence would be a good idea.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Erin
                                              >>> Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              >>> MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              >>> AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Celtic Parentshttp://www.celticparents.com
                                              >>> ~Lair of the Anime Witches
                                              >>> ~http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              >>> Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Sitehttp://www.celticparents
                                              >>> com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              >>> -------Original Message-------
                                              >>>
                                              >>> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>> Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              >>> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              >>> ponds
                                              >>> (fencing in)
                                              >>>
                                              >>> fence holes were still
                                              >>> there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby
                                              >>> crawled
                                              >>> over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died.
                                              >>> Owner
                                              >>> of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              >>>
                                              >>> ADVERTISEMENT
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                                              >>> <image.tiff>
                                              >>>
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                                              >>>
                                              >>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                              >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>>
                                              >>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              >> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              >> religion....
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>
                                              >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >>
                                              >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>
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                                              >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
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                                              >> ---------------------~-->
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                                              >> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
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                                              >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              >> ~->
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>
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                                              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >>
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                                              >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>
                                              >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              > don't be afraid to scream...
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              religion....
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 593 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              I'm not arguing that fences are a safe way to distract children from attractive nuisances. I don't believe in paying guilty parents money for their lack of attention. And I don't presume to equate that with my alleged disenfranchisement with school taxes.
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              > the parents aren't "paid" or "rewarded" for the privilege of having
                                              > their child die, the neighbors are penalized for having what is known
                                              > in the US as an "attractive nuisance. this penalty is so that in the
                                              > future, they will take heed of the law, and it serves to warn others.
                                              > contrary to popular belief, even in the us we try to take a "global
                                              > village" approach to raising a child. under you logic, people without
                                              > children should not have to pay school taxes. as a community of
                                              > civilized people we all agree to invest in the future, and we all agree
                                              > that the future we will invest in is children. because of this, we have
                                              > laws that protect the welfare of children, such as those that state
                                              > that pools, ponds, and other bodies of water that my lure a curious
                                              > child should be fenced.
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:27 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Almathea,
                                              > > Ok. If the baby/child falls into one of God's lakes, rivers, they
                                              > > don't
                                              > > get paid for it. They don't sue God, and may be permanently labeled as
                                              > > negligent. Why should parents be financially rewarded for allowing
                                              > > their
                                              > > children to tresspass into a neighbors pond, if injury or death
                                              > > results?
                                              > > Joe Pascavage
                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:50 PM
                                              > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              > > Re:outdoor
                                              > > ponds (fencing in)
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > i don't really think it's a matter of not parenting. for even the best
                                              > > of parents, accidents happen. it's tragic, but you can become
                                              > > distracted for less than a minute and in that time, a child can die. is
                                              > > it really so offensive that the law finds a child's life precious
                                              > > enough to impose safety regulations on society to protect them? it's
                                              > > somewhat offensive that you wouldn't want to do whatever you could to
                                              > > help out possibly new and frazzled (or old and frazzled) parents.
                                              > > amalthea
                                              > > On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >> You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              > >> parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering
                                              > >> around
                                              > >> unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back
                                              > >> yard
                                              > >> without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the backyard
                                              > >> while
                                              > >> I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees
                                              > >> and
                                              > >> undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for SNAKES.
                                              > >> Not
                                              > >> to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run the
                                              > >> streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to be
                                              > >> close
                                              > >> enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into our
                                              > >> yard.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are choosing
                                              > >> the
                                              > >> easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual PARENTING
                                              > >> route
                                              > >> yeah a fence would be a good idea.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Erin
                                              > >> Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              > >> MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              > >> AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Celtic Parentshttp://www.celticparents.com
                                              > >> ~Lair of the Anime Witches
                                              > >> ~http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              > >> Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Sitehttp://www.celticparents
                                              > >> com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              > >> -------Original Message-------
                                              > >>
                                              > >> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >> Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              > >> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              > >> ponds
                                              > >> (fencing in)
                                              > >>
                                              > >> fence holes were still
                                              > >> there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby
                                              > >> crawled
                                              > >> over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died.
                                              > >> Owner
                                              > >> of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > >>
                                              > >> ADVERTISEMENT
                                              > >> <image.tiff>
                                              > >> <image.tiff>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >>
                                              > >> � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >>
                                              > >> � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >>
                                              > >> � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > > religion....
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > > ---------------------~-->
                                              > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                              > > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
                                              > > Canada.
                                              > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                              > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ctpplB/TM
                                              > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > ~->
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              > don't be afraid to scream...
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 594 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              my last word on this is that i don't think the parents are "getting
                                              paid." i have stated why the lawsuits take place.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:54 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                              > I'm not arguing that fences are a safe way to distract children
                                              > from attractive nuisances. I don't believe in paying guilty parents
                                              > money for their lack of attention. And I don't presume to equate that
                                              > with my alleged disenfranchisement with school taxes.
                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                              >> the parents aren't "paid" or "rewarded" for the privilege of having
                                              >> their child die, the neighbors are penalized for having what is known
                                              >> in the US as an "attractive nuisance. this penalty is so that in the
                                              >> future, they will take heed of the law, and it serves to warn others.
                                              >> contrary to popular belief, even in the us we try to take a "global
                                              >> village" approach to raising a child. under you logic, people without
                                              >> children should not have to pay school taxes. as a community of
                                              >> civilized people we all agree to invest in the future, and we all
                                              >> agree
                                              >> that the future we will invest in is children. because of this, we
                                              >> have
                                              >> laws that protect the welfare of children, such as those that state
                                              >> that pools, ponds, and other bodies of water that my lure a curious
                                              >> child should be fenced.
                                              >> amalthea
                                              >> On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:27 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >>> Almathea,
                                              >>> Ok. If the baby/child falls into one of God's lakes, rivers, they
                                              >>> don't
                                              >>> get paid for it. They don't sue God, and may be permanently labeled
                                              >>> as
                                              >>> negligent. Why should parents be financially rewarded for allowing
                                              >>> their
                                              >>> children to tresspass into a neighbors pond, if injury or death
                                              >>> results?
                                              >>> Joe Pascavage
                                              >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                              >>> From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              >>> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              >>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:50 PM
                                              >>> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              >>> Re:outdoor
                                              >>> ponds (fencing in)
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>> i don't really think it's a matter of not parenting. for even the
                                              >>> best
                                              >>> of parents, accidents happen. it's tragic, but you can become
                                              >>> distracted for less than a minute and in that time, a child can die.
                                              >>> is
                                              >>> it really so offensive that the law finds a child's life precious
                                              >>> enough to impose safety regulations on society to protect them? it's
                                              >>> somewhat offensive that you wouldn't want to do whatever you could to
                                              >>> help out possibly new and frazzled (or old and frazzled) parents.
                                              >>> amalthea
                                              >>> On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                              >>>
                                              >>>> You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              >>>> parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering
                                              >>>> around
                                              >>>> unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back
                                              >>>> yard
                                              >>>> without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the
                                              >>>> backyard
                                              >>>> while
                                              >>>> I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees
                                              >>>> and
                                              >>>> undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for
                                              >>>> SNAKES.
                                              >>>> Not
                                              >>>> to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run
                                              >>>> the
                                              >>>> streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to
                                              >>>> be
                                              >>>> close
                                              >>>> enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into
                                              >>>> our
                                              >>>> yard.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are
                                              >>>> choosing
                                              >>>> the
                                              >>>> easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual
                                              >>>> PARENTING
                                              >>>> route
                                              >>>> yeah a fence would be a good idea.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Erin
                                              >>>> Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              >>>> MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              >>>> AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Celtic Parentshttp://www.celticparents.com
                                              >>>> ~Lair of the Anime Witches
                                              >>>> ~http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              >>>> Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Sitehttp://www.celticparents
                                              >>>> com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              >>>> -------Original Message-------
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>>> Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              >>>> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>>> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              >>>> Re:outdoor
                                              >>>> ponds
                                              >>>> (fencing in)
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> fence holes were still
                                              >>>> there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby
                                              >>>> crawled
                                              >>>> over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned,
                                              >>>> died.
                                              >>>> Owner
                                              >>>> of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> ADVERTISEMENT
                                              >>>> <image.tiff>
                                              >>>> <image.tiff>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              >>>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of
                                              >>>> Service.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              >>> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              >>> religion....
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>>
                                              >>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >>>
                                              >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              >>> ---------------------~-->
                                              >>> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or
                                              >>> Lexmark
                                              >>> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
                                              >>> Canada.
                                              >>> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                              >>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ctpplB/TM
                                              >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              >>> ~->
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>>
                                              >>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >>>
                                              >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>
                                              >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >>
                                              >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >>
                                              >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 595 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor ponds (fencing in)
                                              What I feel regarding this thread about ponds and fences or no fences is the parent's should be responsible whether or not a fence is present. In this area, (Harrisburg, PA State Capitol) the Army can have barbed wire fences (long-long-before Sept 11) around their compounds, as well as businesses, but unless you have a surveillance camera recording every inch of your property, fenced or not, you have no proof of trespass, and if children hurt or kill themselves on your property, and it was a barbed wire fence, the domestic property-owner is at fault, because only Government and Buisinesses are allowed to use barbed wire. I admit this is an unusual area. Fences are no deterrent. Neither are rain-gutters, slate-roofs, electrical/communication-wire, doors, windows, and a POND? Say goodbye to your fish. I believe there should be some leeway considering the Biblical injunction to raise your children constantly, but not at the expense of a lawsuit-crazy constituency.
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              > it is not a solution, as i stated it is a warning to others that the
                                              > incident may not recur. of course there are some bad parents, but to
                                              > rule out safety measures because of this is ridiculous. i get the
                                              > feeling that you're either playing devil's advocate or being
                                              > deliberately obtuse on this point, either of which is fine, however if
                                              > i'm wrong and you honestly believe that there should be no societal
                                              > measures taken to ensure the safety of children on the whole,
                                              > regardless of parental intervention. then i worry for you and your
                                              > neighbor's children.
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:48 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Recently, at least in the last ten years or so, there was a documentary
                                              > > about parents who ALLOWED their children to to be unsupervised, in
                                              > > instances
                                              > > where your understanding of the situation, among others applied. They
                                              > > learned to form support-groups to increase their awareness of how to
                                              > > govern/supervise their children. I've heard several times from leaders
                                              > > that
                                              > > Television, etc. is the national parent. The initial thread related to
                                              > > dangers around ponds, and how tresspassing can be a financial reward to
                                              > > parents . If, as you said, "..most of these cases the death is
                                              > > declared a
                                              > > legitimate accident', why does suing the neighbor who has a pond
                                              > > sound like
                                              > > the solution to an accident?
                                              > > Joe Pascavage
                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:33 PM
                                              > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              > > Re:outdoor
                                              > > ponds (fencing in)
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > additionally, most of these parents are not permanently labeled as
                                              > > "negligent." in most of these cases the death is declared a legitimate
                                              > > accident as the lawmakers in our country are keenly aware of how easy
                                              > > it can be to turn away from a child for the very few minutes it takes a
                                              > > tragedy to occur...
                                              > > amalthea
                                              > > On Jan 29, 2004, at 6:27 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >> Almathea,
                                              > >> Ok. If the baby/child falls into one of God's lakes, rivers, they
                                              > >> don't
                                              > >> get paid for it. They don't sue God, and may be permanently labeled
                                              > >> as
                                              > >> negligent. Why should parents be financially rewarded for allowing
                                              > >> their
                                              > >> children to tresspass into a neighbors pond, if injury or death
                                              > >> results?
                                              > >> Joe Pascavage
                                              > >> ----- Original Message -----
                                              > >> From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                              > >> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > >> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 12:50 PM
                                              > >> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater]
                                              > >> Re:outdoor
                                              > >> ponds (fencing in)
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> i don't really think it's a matter of not parenting. for even the best
                                              > >> of parents, accidents happen. it's tragic, but you can become
                                              > >> distracted for less than a minute and in that time, a child can die.
                                              > >> is
                                              > >> it really so offensive that the law finds a child's life precious
                                              > >> enough to impose safety regulations on society to protect them? it's
                                              > >> somewhat offensive that you wouldn't want to do whatever you could to
                                              > >> help out possibly new and frazzled (or old and frazzled) parents.
                                              > >> amalthea
                                              > >> On Jan 29, 2004, at 7:59 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                              > >>
                                              > >>> You have GOT to be kidding me .... where in the heck were the baby's
                                              > >>> parents? Babies that are of crawling age shouldn't just be wandering
                                              > >>> around
                                              > >>> unsupervised! This is stupid ... UGH.
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> My kids are 3 and 5, and I don't even let them play in my OWN back
                                              > >>> yard
                                              > >>> without supervision. And I don't mean they are playing in the
                                              > >>> backyard
                                              > >>> while
                                              > >>> I'm on the porch ... we have a good sized back yard with some trees
                                              > >>> and
                                              > >>> undergrowth on the edges, so I stay CLOSE to them to watch for
                                              > >>> SNAKES.
                                              > >>> Not
                                              > >>> to mention all the neighbor dogs that the stupid neighbors let run
                                              > >>> the
                                              > >>> streets, and with both my kids flat out PETRIFIED of dogs I have to
                                              > >>> be
                                              > >>> close
                                              > >>> enough to come to the rescue when one of the mongrels wanders into
                                              > >>> our
                                              > >>> yard.
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Yes, I'd have to agree that because more and more people are choosing
                                              > >>> the
                                              > >>> easy "lawsuit" route as opposed to the more difficult actual
                                              > >>> PARENTING
                                              > >>> route
                                              > >>> yeah a fence would be a good idea.
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Erin
                                              > >>> Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              > >>> MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              > >>> AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Celtic Parentshttp://www.celticparents.com
                                              > >>> ~Lair of the Anime Witches
                                              > >>> ~http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              > >>> Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Sitehttp://www.celticparents
                                              > >>> com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              > >>> -------Original Message-------
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >>> Date: 01/28/04 22:48:55
                                              > >>> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >>> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: [Freshwater] Re:outdoor
                                              > >>> ponds
                                              > >>> (fencing in)
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> fence holes were still
                                              > >>> there, but nothing in them.. filled up with water, neighbors baby
                                              > >>> crawled
                                              > >>> over to the area, fell face first into hole.. choked., drowned, died.
                                              > >>> Owner
                                              > >>> of land was sued like you wouldn't believe.
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> ADVERTISEMENT
                                              > >>> <image.tiff>
                                              > >>> <image.tiff>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>> � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              > >>>
                                              > >>>
                                              > >> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > >> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > >> religion....
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >>
                                              > >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >>
                                              > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > >> ---------------------~-->
                                              > >> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                              > >> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
                                              > >> Canada.
                                              > >> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                              > >> http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ctpplB/TM
                                              > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > >> ~->
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >>
                                              > >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >>
                                              > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              > > don't be afraid to scream...
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > religion....
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 596 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums
                                              Hi everybody, The Dude again. I just wanted to make a coment on
                                              this book I bought when starting up my new tank. It's called "A
                                              Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" by Mike Wickham. It says that the
                                              author has been an aquarium hobbyist since 1964 and is very
                                              informative. For beginners it takes you from start to finish
                                              illustrating the proper equipment to buy, how it works, and even
                                              tells you successful communities to use in your tank! It has all
                                              the definitions, symptoms, and cures to most fish diseases. It
                                              describes problems with most tapwater and how to make it safe,
                                              proper cycling of your tank, maintenance and testing, chemicals and
                                              a ton more! Now get this, I picked it up as an afterthought at Wal-
                                              Mart and it only cost about $2.20! I've followed this book to the
                                              letter and my tank is flourishing. Now I've found everything I had
                                              a question about in it, but for you more advanced guys, it also has
                                              a list of other resources in the back of the book including other
                                              publications and a whole slew of websites...some with online
                                              support! In my opinion, it's the best two bucks I ever spent and
                                              there's no reason why everyone shouldn't check it out!

                                              The Dude.
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 597 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: My New Tank!
                                              I don't think the coral is going to be a problem. It has been
                                              dormant and out of water for about 8 years and it was in a
                                              freshwater tank for about 5 years before that. The saline content
                                              (which shouldn't hurt the tank anyway) should be null, and as I said
                                              in my post the pH tests have been within tolerances. And as for the
                                              Guppies getting nipped, I was expecting the same thing, but thus far
                                              all the Danios care about is each other. I do have one Danio bully,
                                              but he has only been chasing the other danios. The Guppies thus far
                                              have remained untouched. And last but not least, I know that I'm
                                              missing most of the larger particles of debris by burying my intake,
                                              but I've made a resolution to vaccum my gravel religiously every two
                                              weeks. Thanks for the help!

                                              The Dude.


                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "M Reed
                                              Enterprises" <mreed@m...> wrote:
                                              > One thing that strikes me right away is that you are using coral
                                              in a
                                              > freshwater aquarium. Coral can adversely set up a basic pH in your
                                              tank.
                                              > Whether it does or not depends on original pH or the pH you are
                                              looking for
                                              > and also on a few other factors. Best not to use the coral unless
                                              you are
                                              > willing to keep a close check on pH.
                                              >
                                              > Another quick comment is that fancy guppies
                                              > are in danger with many fish because their flowing fins attract
                                              nipping. You
                                              > may already be seeing this, especially with your danios.
                                              >
                                              > Also, by placing your filter intake under the gravel, you have
                                              eliminated it
                                              > ability to provide mechanical filtration (removal of fairly large
                                              > particles). But you have improved its biological filtering power.
                                              In most
                                              > cases, this tradeoff is not a good one cause you get biofiltration
                                              without
                                              > the help of a gravel-covered intake.
                                              >
                                              > Mike
                                              >
                                              > Mike
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "The Dude" <ironheadude@y...>
                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 1:01 PM
                                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] My New Tank!
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > > I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/) about a month ago.
                                              It's
                                              > > a 30 gal. I'm using a Whisper 30-60 filter with my intake below
                                              the
                                              > > gravel (not an undergravel filter though). It has a slotted
                                              > > trapezoidal foot that's about 1" by 3" that attaches to the
                                              intake
                                              > > and sits on the bottom of the tank under the gravel. I chose this
                                              > > method because I have a huge filter and tiny fish. I'm also
                                              using a
                                              > > Visi-Therm Deluxe submersible heater with "Click Set" temperature
                                              > > select (accurate within 1 degree). The rocks on the left and
                                              right
                                              > > I hand picked from the Lockington Dam here in Piqua, Ohio where I
                                              > > live, and the coral came from the Gulf of Mexico. I'm also using
                                              a
                                              > > green leafy backdrop and natural rust colored gravel. I know it
                                              > > looks kind of bare right now. I want to put in some plants and I
                                              > > want to go live, but I've never used live plants before.
                                              > > Suggestions? Tips? Strategies? I'm still slowly putting fish in.
                                              > > So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra Danios, three
                                              > > Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco, and two Zebra
                                              > > looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright red with black
                                              > > horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow Fish". I plan on
                                              > > putting in a colorful mix of tetras to finish out the tank. So
                                              far
                                              > > the fish are extremely lively and my water tests well within
                                              > > tolerances. I'm very pleased at the tank's appearance and look
                                              > > forward to a reply on the live plants.
                                              > >
                                              > > The Dude.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 598 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums
                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums Sounds like a great book!  Was it in the book section of Walmart or up front where they put the cheap books?  I'll search for it.

                                              Mary

                                              From: "The Dude" <ironheadude@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:00:42 -0000
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums


                                              Hi everybody, The Dude again.  I just wanted to make a coment on
                                              this book I bought when starting up my new tank.  It's called "A
                                              Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" by Mike Wickham.  It says that the
                                              author has been an aquarium hobbyist since 1964 and is very
                                              informative.  For beginners it takes you from start to finish
                                              illustrating the proper equipment to buy, how it works, and even
                                              tells you successful communities to use in your tank!  It has all
                                              the definitions, symptoms, and cures to most fish diseases.  It
                                              describes problems with most tapwater and how to make it safe,
                                              proper cycling of your tank, maintenance and testing, chemicals and
                                              a ton more!  Now get this, I picked it up as an afterthought at Wal-
                                              Mart and it only cost about $2.20!  I've followed this book to the
                                              letter and my tank is flourishing.  Now I've found everything I had
                                              a question about in it, but for you more advanced guys, it also has
                                              a list of other resources in the back of the book including other
                                              publications and a whole slew of websites...some with online
                                              support!  In my opinion, it's the best two bucks I ever spent and
                                              there's no reason why everyone shouldn't check it out!

                                              The Dude.





                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 599 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: My New Tank!
                                              hey Dude, couldnt see the Pic of ur tank..can u resend
                                              it ?? Looks like a good assortment u have in
                                              there..SuNnY !

                                              --- The Dude <ironheadude@...> wrote:
                                              > I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/) about a
                                              > month ago. It's
                                              > a 30 gal. I'm using a Whisper 30-60 filter with my
                                              > intake below the
                                              > gravel (not an undergravel filter though). It has a
                                              > slotted
                                              > trapezoidal foot that's about 1" by 3" that attaches
                                              > to the intake
                                              > and sits on the bottom of the tank under the gravel.
                                              > I chose this
                                              > method because I have a huge filter and tiny fish.
                                              > I'm also using a
                                              > Visi-Therm Deluxe submersible heater with "Click
                                              > Set" temperature
                                              > select (accurate within 1 degree). The rocks on the
                                              > left and right
                                              > I hand picked from the Lockington Dam here in Piqua,
                                              > Ohio where I
                                              > live, and the coral came from the Gulf of Mexico.
                                              > I'm also using a
                                              > green leafy backdrop and natural rust colored
                                              > gravel. I know it
                                              > looks kind of bare right now. I want to put in some
                                              > plants and I
                                              > want to go live, but I've never used live plants
                                              > before.
                                              > Suggestions? Tips? Strategies? I'm still slowly
                                              > putting fish in.
                                              > So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra
                                              > Danios, three
                                              > Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco,
                                              > and two Zebra
                                              > looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright
                                              > red with black
                                              > horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow
                                              > Fish". I plan on
                                              > putting in a colorful mix of tetras to finish out
                                              > the tank. So far
                                              > the fish are extremely lively and my water tests
                                              > well within
                                              > tolerances. I'm very pleased at the tank's
                                              > appearance and look
                                              > forward to a reply on the live plants.
                                              >
                                              > The Dude.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              __________________________________
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 600 From: Chris Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Angelfish question
                                              Hi Guys

                                              I have just set up my first Tropical aquarium. I purchased 3 small
                                              angelfish (about 10cm from top to bottom), and it looks like the ends
                                              of their fins have been nibbled at and there is approx. 1-2cms off
                                              the
                                              tips (previous to being purchased). I have been watching them
                                              closely, and they aren't violent towards eachother. How long will it
                                              be until their fins grow back fully? The fins are healthy, so its
                                              just a matter of them growing back! Any information on Angelfish
                                              would be great also.
                                              Other tank mates: 1 black ghost knife fish, 2 chinese algea eaters

                                              Thanks everyone!
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 601 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: My New Tank!
                                              The link is to a new group I just started. You have to take the
                                              parenthesis out at the end, but I just put it in the photo section of
                                              this group to make it a lot easier.

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                              <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > hey Dude, couldnt see the Pic of ur tank..can u resend
                                              > it ?? Looks like a good assortment u have in
                                              > there..SuNnY !
                                              >
                                              > --- The Dude <ironheadude@y...> wrote:
                                              > > I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/) about a
                                              > > month ago. It's
                                              > > a 30 gal. I'm using a Whisper 30-60 filter with my
                                              > > intake below the
                                              > > gravel (not an undergravel filter though). It has a
                                              > > slotted
                                              > > trapezoidal foot that's about 1" by 3" that attaches
                                              > > to the intake
                                              > > and sits on the bottom of the tank under the gravel.
                                              > > I chose this
                                              > > method because I have a huge filter and tiny fish.
                                              > > I'm also using a
                                              > > Visi-Therm Deluxe submersible heater with "Click
                                              > > Set" temperature
                                              > > select (accurate within 1 degree). The rocks on the
                                              > > left and right
                                              > > I hand picked from the Lockington Dam here in Piqua,
                                              > > Ohio where I
                                              > > live, and the coral came from the Gulf of Mexico.
                                              > > I'm also using a
                                              > > green leafy backdrop and natural rust colored
                                              > > gravel. I know it
                                              > > looks kind of bare right now. I want to put in some
                                              > > plants and I
                                              > > want to go live, but I've never used live plants
                                              > > before.
                                              > > Suggestions? Tips? Strategies? I'm still slowly
                                              > > putting fish in.
                                              > > So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra
                                              > > Danios, three
                                              > > Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco,
                                              > > and two Zebra
                                              > > looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright
                                              > > red with black
                                              > > horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow
                                              > > Fish". I plan on
                                              > > putting in a colorful mix of tetras to finish out
                                              > > the tank. So far
                                              > > the fish are extremely lively and my water tests
                                              > > well within
                                              > > tolerances. I'm very pleased at the tank's
                                              > > appearance and look
                                              > > forward to a reply on the live plants.
                                              > >
                                              > > The Dude.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > __________________________________
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 602 From: Chris Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                              Hi Sunny

                                              I once had a similar build up in a temperate tank set up with an
                                              external fluval filter. I discovered it was caused by a build up of
                                              debris in the pipes between the filter and the tank. Ever since then,
                                              I have cleaned the pipes once a month and the problem hasn't come
                                              back. How long have you had the set up? How long have you had the
                                              problem?

                                              Hope its some help to you

                                              C

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                              <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > Hi,
                                              >
                                              > Theres some dust/husk like powder (brownish in colour
                                              > ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as anubias
                                              > plants. They also get accumulated on the driftwood i
                                              > have in my tank.
                                              >
                                              > Its a 55gal planted community tank with Eheim filter.
                                              >
                                              > Can anybody suggest What this is and how can i get rid
                                              > of it ??
                                              >
                                              > I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra plankton and
                                              > dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my LFS, apart
                                              > from blood worms.
                                              >
                                              > Any guidance will highly be appreciated...SuNnY !
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > __________________________________
                                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
                                              > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 603 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Angelfish question
                                              Hi Chris,

                                              I have read on the net that Chinese algae eaters once
                                              they grow old will start attacking angles slime coat.

                                              So its not a good idea to have CAE.

                                              Though when young they do proper cleaning of the algae
                                              but they GROW BIG VERY FAST AND ALSO GET TIRED OF
                                              EATING ALGAE..

                                              As regards angelfish this is a very useful site for
                                              Anglefish details..

                                              http://www.awforum.net/angelfish/default.asp

                                              hope this helps......SuNnY !


                                              --- Chris <kava_man_spr@...> wrote:
                                              > Hi Guys
                                              >
                                              > I have just set up my first Tropical aquarium. I
                                              > purchased 3 small
                                              > angelfish (about 10cm from top to bottom), and it
                                              > looks like the ends
                                              > of their fins have been nibbled at and there is
                                              > approx. 1-2cms off
                                              > the
                                              > tips (previous to being purchased). I have been
                                              > watching them
                                              > closely, and they aren't violent towards eachother.
                                              > How long will it
                                              > be until their fins grow back fully? The fins are
                                              > healthy, so its
                                              > just a matter of them growing back! Any information
                                              > on Angelfish
                                              > would be great also.
                                              > Other tank mates: 1 black ghost knife fish, 2
                                              > chinese algea eaters
                                              >
                                              > Thanks everyone!
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 604 From: The Dude Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums
                                              It was in the pet section right where you buy new tank filters. It's
                                              a small pocket sized book.

                                              The Dude

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mary
                                              Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@s...> wrote:
                                              > Sounds like a great book! Was it in the book section of Walmart or
                                              up front
                                              > where they put the cheap books? I'll search for it.
                                              >
                                              > Mary
                                              >
                                              > From: "The Dude" <ironheadude@y...>
                                              > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:00:42 -0000
                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Aqua Culture Guide to
                                              Freshwater
                                              > Aquariums
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Hi everybody, The Dude again. I just wanted to make a coment on
                                              > this book I bought when starting up my new tank. It's called "A
                                              > Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" by Mike Wickham. It says that the
                                              > author has been an aquarium hobbyist since 1964 and is very
                                              > informative. For beginners it takes you from start to finish
                                              > illustrating the proper equipment to buy, how it works, and even
                                              > tells you successful communities to use in your tank! It has all
                                              > the definitions, symptoms, and cures to most fish diseases. It
                                              > describes problems with most tapwater and how to make it safe,
                                              > proper cycling of your tank, maintenance and testing, chemicals and
                                              > a ton more! Now get this, I picked it up as an afterthought at Wal-
                                              > Mart and it only cost about $2.20! I've followed this book to the
                                              > letter and my tank is flourishing. Now I've found everything I had
                                              > a question about in it, but for you more advanced guys, it also has
                                              > a list of other resources in the back of the book including other
                                              > publications and a whole slew of websites...some with online
                                              > support! In my opinion, it's the best two bucks I ever spent and
                                              > there's no reason why everyone shouldn't check it out!
                                              >
                                              > The Dude.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                              subject=U
                                              > nsubscribe>
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                                              > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 605 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Aqua Culture Guide to Freshwater Aquariums
                                              you should also try half.com, that's always a great place for really
                                              cheap books..
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 30, 2004, at 12:08 AM, The Dude wrote:

                                              > It was in the pet section right where you buy new tank filters.  It's
                                              > a small pocket sized book.
                                              >
                                              > The Dude
                                              >
                                              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mary
                                              > Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@s...> wrote:
                                              > > Sounds like a great book!  Was it in the book section of Walmart or
                                              > up front
                                              > > where they put the cheap books?  I'll search for it.
                                              > >
                                              > > Mary
                                              > >
                                              > > From: "The Dude" <ironheadude@y...>
                                              > > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 01:00:42 -0000
                                              > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Aqua Culture Guide to
                                              > Freshwater
                                              > > Aquariums
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Hi everybody, The Dude again.  I just wanted to make a coment on
                                              > > this book I bought when starting up my new tank.  It's called "A
                                              > > Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" by Mike Wickham.  It says that the
                                              > > author has been an aquarium hobbyist since 1964 and is very
                                              > > informative.  For beginners it takes you from start to finish
                                              > > illustrating the proper equipment to buy, how it works, and even
                                              > > tells you successful communities to use in your tank!  It has all
                                              > > the definitions, symptoms, and cures to most fish diseases.  It
                                              > > describes problems with most tapwater and how to make it safe,
                                              > > proper cycling of your tank, maintenance and testing, chemicals and
                                              > > a ton more!  Now get this, I picked it up as an afterthought at Wal-
                                              > > Mart and it only cost about $2.20!  I've followed this book to the
                                              > > letter and my tank is flourishing.  Now I've found everything I had
                                              > > a question about in it, but for you more advanced guys, it also has
                                              > > a list of other resources in the back of the book including other
                                              > > publications and a whole slew of websites...some with online
                                              > > support!  In my opinion, it's the best two bucks I ever spent and
                                              > > there's no reason why everyone shouldn't check it out!
                                              > >
                                              > > The Dude.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > > 
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                                              > subject=U
                                              > > nsubscribe>
                                              > > 
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                                              > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >  
                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >  
                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              religion....
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 606 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/29/2004
                                              Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                              hi Chris,

                                              I think i know the culprit.

                                              You have rightly mentioned i think its from the pipe.

                                              I have this setup running since Mar.,2003 almost a year now.

                                              And whenever i clean the filter spogne and restart the filter i see a cloud of debris comming..out of the tube...and it never struck to me that it might be from the pipes
                                               
                                              Thanks for your suggestion will do it today itself...thanks a lot....SuNnY !

                                              --- Chris <kava_man_spr@...> wrote:
                                              > Hi Sunny
                                              >
                                              > I once had a similar build up in a temperate tank
                                              > set up with an
                                              > external fluval filter. I discovered it was caused
                                              > by a build up of
                                              > debris in the pipes between the filter and the tank.
                                              > Ever since then,
                                              > I have cleaned the pipes once a month and the
                                              > problem hasn't come
                                              > back. How long have you had the set up? How long
                                              > have you had the
                                              > problem?
                                              >
                                              > Hope its some help to you
                                              >
                                              > C
                                              >
                                              > --- In
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > sunil kamath
                                              > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > > Hi,
                                              > >
                                              > > Theres some dust/husk like powder (brownish in
                                              > colour
                                              > > ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as anubias
                                              > > plants. They also get accumulated on the driftwood
                                              > i
                                              > > have
                                              in my tank.
                                              > >
                                              > > Its a 55gal planted community tank with Eheim
                                              > filter.
                                              > >
                                              > > Can anybody suggest What this is and how can i get
                                              > rid
                                              > > of it ??
                                              > >
                                              > > I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra plankton and
                                              > > dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my LFS, apart
                                              > > from blood worms.
                                              > >
                                              > > Any guidance will highly be appreciated...SuNnY !
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > __________________________________
                                              > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool.
                                              > Try it!
                                              > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 607 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: saving water?
                                              I've been told that one day or even overnight is typically good enough for a gallon jug to allow for evaporation of the chlorine. 
                                               
                                              I know several people that don't even bother dechlorinating their water - I wouldn't suggest this though.  If you want to be for certain, I'd imagine you would want to get a test kit if you wanted to be sure.  Some people can tell by taste or by smell., I can't. 
                                               
                                              I myself wouldn't use a milk jug coz it had something else other than water in it.. haven't heard not to use it.. I'm just a worry wart and would buy an empty gallon jug or pick up some drinking water in a gallon jug at your local superstore for 40 cents or whatever it is.  I am always buying these jugs anyway, coz my recycler won't pick up used auto oil unless it's in a clear container.. and I don't buy any other clear containers ever.  lil' stinkers. :)
                                               
                                              I think people let water sit for a week or more sometimes., I don't think it causes any harm.  I have a five gallon bucket, and I let water sit in it to top off my water throughout the week until I do my next water change.  I haven't had any probs.  The reason I don't leave containers of water for the fish out in the open without a lid, is that I have cats and sheesh.. they get into everything.. and I'd hate for them to drop something into the water.. so I just use the dechlorination drops.  It IS a chemical, but it also supposedly provides some sort of coat on the fish that helps them and I'd rather use the chemical than leave the water out in the open.  I have a tight lid on my 5 gallon bucket.
                                               
                                              I've also heard that one of the reasons why our fish tanks have lids, is not only to keep heat in, provide a place for light, keep fish from jumpin out, yada yada yada., is that it keeps every day air floating things from getting contact with the surface of the water.  Some people are REALLY strong on not allowing anything to come in contact with the water.  I've even heard of people using gloves when they clean their tanks or put their fingers in 'em.  I think that's a bit overboard, but and I respect their thoughts :)  but anyway, those are just some of my ideas.
                                               
                                               
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:30 AM
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] saving water?

                                              I was wondering if it would be okay to fill a rinsed out milk carton with
                                              water and condition it, dechlorinate it, etc.   Would it be okay to let it
                                              sit and just use it as needed to fill aquariums when evaporation has
                                              occured?  Didn't know if the sitting water could go bad and make the fish
                                              ill.

                                              Thanks
                                              Mary


                                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 608 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: My New Tank!
                                              Just through word of mouth, I've heard black lights can cause harm to fish - I can't remember what she said it did to them., I don't think it was like instant death or anything, but sounded more long term damaging of some sort.  I remember when I researched these glowing fish that that was one thing both fish stores mentioned though., so that was enough for me to hear.. well and other things they talked about and why they won't carry them - but those were already beaten to death on here LOL.
                                               
                                              I'd just check into people's opinions on this black light thing a bit before I go tryin' it. :)
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 1:12 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] My New Tank!

                                              The Dude,

                                              I think the tank looks nice! I have no experience with live plants to share,
                                              but I was wondering how you were liking the Glow Fish? I was looking into
                                              getting some, but the only local store here that carries them has them
                                              marked up to $10 each, and for schooling fish that makes them pretty
                                              cost-prohibitive.  BTW, the fish aren't JUST that lovely red color ... they
                                              appear to glow under a black light. Here is the site with more info about
                                              them ... http://www.glofish.com

                                              Currently I've got a 15 gallon with one pleco and two Black Mollies.
                                              (Originally it was three black mollies, but one of the males died from
                                              fungus. I've got the fungus cleared out of the tank now, so I should be able
                                              to get a few more fish in a couple of weeks or so.) Hubby and I are thinking
                                              of getting a small tank to use as a nursery for the Black Mollies if they
                                              decide to breed for us. We won't be pushing the matter, but we won't be
                                              complaining either! :) Not bad for letting my 3 year old pick out the fish
                                              we use to cycle the tank.

                                              Erin
                                              Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                              AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                              Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                              com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              -------Original Message-------

                                              From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: 01/29/04 16:05:05
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] My New Tank!

                                              I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              http://groups.yahoocom/group/tiny_bubbles/) about a month ago. **snip**

                                              So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra Danios, three
                                              Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco, and two Zebra
                                              looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright red with black
                                              horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow Fish".





                                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 609 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: saving water?
                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] saving water? Thanks.  I actually read in one of my books that I should add demineralized water to the tank to help reduce the pH.  I'm in week 2 and the pH is still 8.1.  Book says tetras prefer acidic so I figure they are slightly ticked that I've got them in alkaline.  Need to add some water to the tank anyway since it's lost some due to evaporation and my taking out H2O to test it.

                                              I'll just get some of that water and use those jugs.

                                              Thanks so much for the information.

                                              Mary

                                              From: "The Hamburgs" <thehamburgs@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 05:49:23 -0800
                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] saving water?


                                              I've been told that one day or even overnight is typically good enough for a gallon jug to allow for evaporation of the chlorine.  

                                              I know several people that don't even bother dechlorinating their water - I wouldn't suggest this though.  If you want to be for certain, I'd imagine you would want to get a test kit if you wanted to be sure.  Some people can tell by taste or by smell., I can't.  

                                              I myself wouldn't use a milk jug coz it had something else other than water in it.. haven't heard not to use it.. I'm just a worry wart and would buy an empty gallon jug or pick up some drinking water in a gallon jug at your local superstore for 40 cents or whatever it is.  I am always buying these jugs anyway, coz my recycler won't pick up used auto oil unless it's in a clear container.. and I don't buy any other clear containers ever.  lil' stinkers. :)

                                              I think people let water sit for a week or more sometimes., I don't think it causes any harm.  I have a five gallon bucket, and I let water sit in it to top off my water throughout the week until I do my next water change.  I haven't had any probs.  The reason I don't leave containers of water for the fish out in the open without a lid, is that I have cats and sheesh.. they get into everything.. and I'd hate for them to drop something into the water.. so I just use the dechlorination drops.  It IS a chemical, but it also supposedly provides some sort of coat on the fish that helps them and I'd rather use the chemical than leave the water out in the open.  I have a tight lid on my 5 gallon bucket.

                                              I've also heard that one of the reasons why our fish tanks have lids, is not only to keep heat in, provide a place for light, keep fish from jumpin out, yada yada yada., is that it keeps every day air floating things from getting contact with the surface of the water.  Some people are REALLY strong on not allowing anything to come in contact with the water.  I've even heard of people using gloves when they clean their tanks or put their fingers in 'em.  I think that's a bit overboard, but and I respect their thoughts :)  but anyway, those are just some of my ideas.


                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Mary Ramsower, RVT <mailto:tzuzoo@...>  
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 6:30 AM
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] saving water?

                                              I was wondering if it would be okay to fill a rinsed out milk carton with
                                              water and condition it, dechlorinate it, etc.   Would it be okay to let it
                                              sit and just use it as needed to fill aquariums when evaporation has
                                              occured?  Didn't know if the sitting water could go bad and make the fish
                                              ill.

                                              Thanks
                                              Mary



                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              •  
                                              • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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                                              • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 610 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              How important is to have have the tank exactly level? Obviously my floor is
                                              not. When looking at the front of the tank, there is about .25" difference
                                              between the right and left and when looking at the side, there is almost the
                                              same. I probably should put something under a couple of corners to get it
                                              perfectly level, but don't want to remove any water until it finally cycles.

                                              We will be starting week 3 next Monday. Still waiting for ammonia and
                                              nitrites to appear. Do you think I need to add another fish or two to get
                                              this going? Are 4 tetras enough to cycle a 29 gal.? I just assumed I'd
                                              have at least something by now.

                                              Thanks for info.

                                              Mary
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 611 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              Hi Mary,

                                              Dont worry and also dont be in a hurry :) I can
                                              understand how hard it is to wait... But patience is
                                              the key to success here.

                                              And as regards getting the tank exactly level is quite
                                              important to avoid any leaks, between the tank joints
                                              etc.

                                              U can do this by either keeping a THERMOCOAL ( hope i
                                              spelt it right ) under your tanks full length.

                                              If anybody has any other idea or suggestion pls put
                                              ffwd the same.

                                              hope this helps.....SuNnY !
                                              --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                              > How important is to have have the tank exactly
                                              > level? Obviously my floor is
                                              > not. When looking at the front of the tank, there
                                              > is about .25" difference
                                              > between the right and left and when looking at the
                                              > side, there is almost the
                                              > same. I probably should put something under a
                                              > couple of corners to get it
                                              > perfectly level, but don't want to remove any water
                                              > until it finally cycles.
                                              >
                                              > We will be starting week 3 next Monday. Still
                                              > waiting for ammonia and
                                              > nitrites to appear. Do you think I need to add
                                              > another fish or two to get
                                              > this going? Are 4 tetras enough to cycle a 29 gal.?
                                              > I just assumed I'd
                                              > have at least something by now.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for info.
                                              >
                                              > Mary
                                              >


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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 612 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tank leveling question and cycling question What is a thermocoal?  Never heard of it.

                                              From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 06:42:46 -0800 (PST)
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tank leveling question and cycling question


                                              Hi Mary,

                                              Dont worry and also dont be in a hurry :) I can
                                              understand how hard it is to wait... But patience is
                                              the key to success here.

                                              And as regards getting the tank exactly level is quite
                                              important to avoid any leaks, between the tank joints
                                              etc.

                                              U can do this by either keeping a THERMOCOAL ( hope i
                                              spelt it right ) under your tanks full length.

                                              If anybody has any other idea or suggestion pls put
                                              ffwd the same.

                                              hope this helps.....SuNnY !
                                              --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                              > How important is to have have the tank exactly
                                              > level?  Obviously my floor is
                                              > not.  When looking at the front of the tank, there
                                              > is about .25" difference
                                              > between the right and left and when looking at the
                                              > side, there is almost the
                                              > same.  I probably should put something under a
                                              > couple of corners to get it
                                              > perfectly level, but don't want to remove any water
                                              > until it finally cycles.
                                              >
                                              > We will be starting week 3 next Monday.  Still
                                              > waiting for ammonia and
                                              > nitrites to appear.  Do you think I need to add
                                              > another fish or two to get
                                              > this going?  Are 4 tetras enough to cycle a 29 gal.?
                                              >  I just assumed I'd
                                              > have at least something by now.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for info.
                                              >
                                              > Mary
                                              >


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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 613 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: yay!
                                              I was sitting here checking my email, and hubby was sitting behind me
                                              watching the fish, when he called my attention to something. The larger of
                                              the two black mollies (who I had THOUGHT was the female) has been trying to
                                              put one of the lower protruding fins into the smaller one (who I thought was
                                              male) ... it appears I was backwards. LOL So they're mating!

                                              Anyone have any idea how you can tell if a mating was successful? And about
                                              how long is gestation period? I need to know when to move the female to the
                                              nursery tank (that we might end up going ahead and getting, now LOL).

                                              Also for setting up the nursery tank, I know that we need the normal tank
                                              stuff ... might end up getting one of those small "tank starter sets" just
                                              to make it a bit easier. And I know the fry need good places to hide ... are
                                              artificial plants okay or do they have to be live plants? What would be best
                                              algae eater for a nursery tank? Or do I not need an algae eater at all for
                                              nursery tank?

                                              Any other pointers on black mollies having babies would be much appreciated.
                                              :D

                                              Erin
                                              Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 614 From: The Dude Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: My New Tank!
                                              Again, I have no intentions of buying a black light.

                                              The Dude

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "The
                                              Hamburgs" <thehamburgs@h...> wrote:
                                              > Just through word of mouth, I've heard black lights can cause harm
                                              to fish - I can't remember what she said it did to them., I don't
                                              think it was like instant death or anything, but sounded more long
                                              term damaging of some sort. I remember when I researched these
                                              glowing fish that that was one thing both fish stores mentioned
                                              though., so that was enough for me to hear.. well and other things
                                              they talked about and why they won't carry them - but those were
                                              already beaten to death on here LOL.
                                              >
                                              > I'd just check into people's opinions on this black light thing a
                                              bit before I go tryin' it. :)
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: Erin Vankouwenberg
                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 1:12 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] My New Tank!
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > The Dude,
                                              >
                                              > I think the tank looks nice! I have no experience with live
                                              plants to share,
                                              > but I was wondering how you were liking the Glow Fish? I was
                                              looking into
                                              > getting some, but the only local store here that carries them
                                              has them
                                              > marked up to $10 each, and for schooling fish that makes them
                                              pretty
                                              > cost-prohibitive. BTW, the fish aren't JUST that lovely red
                                              color ... they
                                              > appear to glow under a black light. Here is the site with more
                                              info about
                                              > them ... http://www.glofish.com
                                              >
                                              > Currently I've got a 15 gallon with one pleco and two Black
                                              Mollies.
                                              > (Originally it was three black mollies, but one of the males
                                              died from
                                              > fungus. I've got the fungus cleared out of the tank now, so I
                                              should be able
                                              > to get a few more fish in a couple of weeks or so.) Hubby and I
                                              are thinking
                                              > of getting a small tank to use as a nursery for the Black
                                              Mollies if they
                                              > decide to breed for us. We won't be pushing the matter, but we
                                              won't be
                                              > complaining either! :) Not bad for letting my 3 year old pick
                                              out the fish
                                              > we use to cycle the tank.
                                              >
                                              > Erin
                                              > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                              > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@a...
                                              > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                              >
                                              > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                              > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                              http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                              > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                              > com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              > -------Original Message-------
                                              >
                                              > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: 01/29/04 16:05:05
                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] My New Tank!
                                              >
                                              > I've just started my new tank (See Group Pic at
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tiny_bubbles/) about a month ago.
                                              **snip**
                                              >
                                              > So far I've got four Fancy Male Guppies, two Zebra Danios, three
                                              > Pearl Danios, two African Dwarf Frogs, one Pleco, and two Zebra
                                              > looking Danios genetically enginered to be bright red with black
                                              > horizontal stripes. The store called them "Glow Fish".
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              -----------
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                              of Service.
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 615 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              it's not as important to your fish as it is to your floor. the law of
                                              the tank being level is basically just because a fill fish tank can be
                                              EXTREMELY heavy and you want the weight evenly distributed. i would
                                              imagine nothing to be more upsetting that hearing a groan and a crash
                                              in the night as your beautiful tank and fish went crashing through the
                                              floor.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 30, 2004, at 9:20 AM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                              > How important is to have have the tank exactly level?  Obviously my
                                              > floor is
                                              > not.  When looking at the front of the tank, there is about .25"
                                              > difference
                                              > between the right and left and when looking at the side, there is
                                              > almost the
                                              > same.  I probably should put something under a couple of corners to
                                              > get it
                                              > perfectly level, but don't want to remove any water until it finally
                                              > cycles.
                                              >
                                              > We will be starting week 3 next Monday.  Still waiting for ammonia and
                                              > nitrites to appear.  Do you think I need to add another fish or two to
                                              > get
                                              > this going?  Are 4 tetras enough to cycle a 29 gal.?  I just assumed
                                              > I'd
                                              > have at least something by now.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for info.
                                              >
                                              > Mary
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >  
                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >  
                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              religion....
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 616 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tank leveling question and cycling question It is distributed as evenly as possible.  The laminate under the tank is just concrete underneath.  The floor is already messed up because we didn't level the floor before putting it down and discovered after the fact, how unlevel the floor actually was.  Our house sits on a slope also, so that doesn't help.  The front of the house is higher than the back.  Marbles roll across the floor in certain areas.  LOL  

                                              Do you think that 1/4"difference will make that much of a difference?  Should I drain the tank and get it perfectly level or just stay as is and let the cycling finish?

                                              Mary

                                              From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:40:51 -0500
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tank leveling question and cycling question


                                              it's not as important to your fish as it is to your floor. the law of
                                              the tank being level is basically just because a fill fish tank can be
                                              EXTREMELY heavy and you want the weight evenly distributed. i would
                                              imagine nothing to be more upsetting that hearing a groan and a crash
                                              in the night as your beautiful tank and fish went crashing through the
                                              floor.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 30, 2004, at 9:20 AM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                              > How important is to have have the tank exactly level?  Obviously my
                                              > floor is
                                              > not.  When looking at the front of the tank, there is about .25"
                                              > difference
                                              > between the right and left and when looking at the side, there is
                                              > almost the
                                              > same.  I probably should put something under a couple of corners to
                                              > get it
                                              > perfectly level, but don't want to remove any water until it finally
                                              > cycles.
                                              >
                                              > We will be starting week 3 next Monday.  Still waiting for ammonia and
                                              > nitrites to appear.  Do you think I need to add another fish or two to
                                              > get
                                              > this going?  Are 4 tetras enough to cycle a 29 gal.?  I just assumed
                                              > I'd
                                              > have at least something by now.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for info.
                                              >
                                              > Mary
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >  €  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >  
                                              >  €  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >  
                                              >  €  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              religion....




                                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                                              To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

                                              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 617 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: yay!
                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                              Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@c...> wrote:

                                              Hi Erin,
                                              Congrats on your mollies. Sounds like you could use a fry "shower",
                                              with all of the stuff you're planning to get. Sounds like fun.
                                              As the proud, first time owner of two healthy platy babes, I can say
                                              that artificial plants have been just fine for them.

                                              Sierra

                                              And I know the fry need good places to hide ... are
                                              > artificial plants okay or do they have to be live plants?
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 618 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              if the house itself is uneven, then the tank is being evenly supported
                                              in an uneven manner (does that make sense?) you shouldn't be straining
                                              the joints or putting more pressure on one area of the floor in that
                                              case.
                                              i.e. no, the quarter inch won't make that much difference, it'll just
                                              look a bit off when the tank is not completely full because you'll see
                                              the water line on 1/2 of the tank.
                                              no worries.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 30, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                              > It is distributed as evenly as possible.  The laminate under the tank
                                              > is just concrete underneath.  The floor is already messed up because
                                              > we didn't level the floor before putting it down and discovered after
                                              > the fact, how unlevel the floor actually was.  Our house sits on a
                                              > slope also, so that doesn't help.  The front of the house is higher
                                              > than the back.  Marbles roll across the floor in certain areas.  LOL  
                                              >
                                              > Do you think that 1/4"difference will make that much of a difference?
                                              >  Should I drain the tank and get it perfectly level or just stay as is
                                              > and let the cycling finish?
                                              >
                                              > Mary
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From:amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              > Reply-To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date:Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:40:51 -0500
                                              > To:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject:Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tank leveling question
                                              > and cycling question
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > it's not as important to your fish as it is to your floor. the law of
                                              > the tank being level is basically just because a fill fish tank can be
                                              > EXTREMELY heavy and you want the weight evenly distributed. i would
                                              > imagine nothing to be more upsetting that hearing a groan and a crash
                                              > in the night as your beautiful tank and fish went crashing through the
                                              > floor.
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 30, 2004, at 9:20 AM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > How important is to have have the tank exactly level?  Obviously my
                                              > > floor is
                                              > > not.  When looking at the front of the tank, there is about .25"
                                              > > difference
                                              > > between the right and left and when looking at the side, there is
                                              > > almost the
                                              > > same.  I probably should put something under a couple of corners to
                                              > > get it
                                              > > perfectly level, but don't want to remove any water until it finally
                                              > > cycles.
                                              > >
                                              > > We will be starting week 3 next Monday.  Still waiting for ammonia
                                              > and
                                              > > nitrites to appear.  Do you think I need to add another fish or two
                                              > to
                                              > > get
                                              > > this going?  Are 4 tetras enough to cycle a 29 gal.?  I just assumed
                                              > > I'd
                                              > > have at least something by now.
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks for info.
                                              > >
                                              > > Mary
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > >  €  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              > >  
                                              > >  €  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >  
                                              > >  €  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of
                                              > Service.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                              > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              > religion....
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >  
                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >  
                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >


                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 619 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tank leveling question and cycling question THANK YOU!  I was really starting to worry.  Any thoughts on why I have no ammonia or nitrites and will be starting week 3 on Monday?



                                              From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:24:09 -0500
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tank leveling question and cycling question


                                              if the house itself is uneven, then the tank is being evenly supported
                                              in an uneven manner (does that make sense?) you shouldn't be straining
                                              the joints or putting more pressure on one area of the floor in that
                                              case.
                                              i.e. no, the quarter inch won't make that much difference, it'll just
                                              look a bit off when the tank is not completely full because you'll see
                                              the water line on 1/2 of the tank.
                                              no worries.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 30, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 620 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Fun with driftwood... ugh
                                              Hi Again guys.

                                              Last week I purchased a piece of Driftwood from my local aquarium
                                              supply store, and I have a couple of problems with it:
                                              1- It floats!
                                              2- I discovered that one of the ends has been burnt and is charred.

                                              It is a pretty big peice, and it only cost NZ$11 (like US$6.50), and
                                              I have had it in an unused bathtub held underwater with a rock. After
                                              a week it is still boyant. Do I keep it underwater for longer and
                                              just be patient? And what do I do about the burnt bit at the end- I'm
                                              worried that it would mess around with water chemistry.
                                              HELP!!!

                                              Chris :D
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 621 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Fun with driftwood... ugh
                                              some pieces of driftwood will float even after 3 months of submersion.
                                              the best bet is to get a clean piece of slate and screw the driftwood
                                              onto it to weight it down, or you can get aquarium weights and bury
                                              them in the substrate after tying the wood to it. so long as the ends
                                              are clean, the burned end shouldn't affect the water chemistry too
                                              badly as it's basically charcoal.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 30, 2004, at 3:13 PM, Chris wrote:

                                              > Hi Again guys.
                                              >
                                              > Last week I purchased a piece of Driftwood from my local aquarium
                                              > supply store, and I have a couple of problems with it:
                                              > 1- It floats!
                                              > 2- I discovered that one of the ends has been burnt and is charred.
                                              >
                                              > It is a pretty big peice, and it only cost NZ$11 (like US$6.50), and
                                              > I have had it in an unused bathtub held underwater with a rock. After
                                              > a week it is still boyant. Do I keep it underwater for longer and
                                              > just be patient? And what do I do about the burnt bit at the end- I'm
                                              > worried that it would mess around with water chemistry.
                                              > HELP!!!
                                              >
                                              > Chris :D
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              religion....
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 622 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: yay!
                                              Well we just got back from the pet store. We got two more female Mollies. (a
                                              silvery one with a gold top fin that looks like a mohawk, and a dark gold
                                              one.) We also got three dark orange platy's with black fins and tails.
                                              (hubby picked those out) We finally got the aquarium salt, and we got a
                                              nursery box for IF the mating was successful. We've already got two plants
                                              in the tank itself, along with a hiding log that has plants on it, so I
                                              think we should be set.

                                              We are done buying fish, we think that with the fish we bought today and the
                                              ones we already had, that is plenty for our aquarium. So we'll be calling
                                              petsmart to see if they want our fry (if the mating was successful that is).

                                              Erin
                                              Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
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                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                              com/warhammer/index1.html
                                              -------Original Message-------

                                              From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: 01/30/04 13:21:52
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: yay!

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                              Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@c...> wrote:

                                              Hi Erin,
                                              Congrats on your mollies. Sounds like you could use a fry "shower",
                                              with all of the stuff you're planning to get. Sounds like fun.
                                              As the proud, first time owner of two healthy platy babes, I can say
                                              that artificial plants have been just fine for them.
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 623 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              Hi Mary!
                                              Thougth I'd let you know that I have 1 tank on an uneven floor and it
                                              has been for about 3 years! At first I moved it around heaps to try
                                              and find a place where the floor is level, and I had no luck so I
                                              left it where is was. I just put a bit of black tape across thje top
                                              of the tank so you can't see the water level. Cheap solution! Avout
                                              the floor- its still fine!
                                              About the nitrates and such- I think you would need a few more fish
                                              in the tank to get things moving? Gaint Danios I found are good for
                                              that sort of thing becuase they are very hardy- and good looking!
                                              Hope it all works out for you!

                                              Chris
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 624 From: colleen and theresa Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: our question
                                              Hi there,
                                              I just joined the group here my partner and I are going to get some fish . She has had fish before however we decided to join a few yahoo groups on fish to learn a little more before getting them.
                                              What kinds of fish do you recommend and what kinds can you put together, What do you recommend we get also to help keep the tank clean and filters everything general info we need to know before getting some.
                                              Colleen and Theresa 
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 5:12 AM
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] yay!


                                              I was sitting here checking my email, and hubby was sitting behind me
                                              watching the fish, when he called my attention to something. The larger of
                                              the two black mollies (who I had THOUGHT was the female) has been trying to
                                              put one of the lower protruding fins into the smaller one (who I thought was
                                              male) ... it appears I was backwards. LOL So they're mating!

                                              Anyone have any idea how you can tell if a mating was successful? And about
                                              how long is gestation period? I need to know when to move the female to the
                                              nursery tank (that we might end up going ahead and getting, now LOL).

                                              Also for setting up the nursery tank, I know that we need the normal tank
                                              stuff ... might end up getting one of those small "tank starter sets" just
                                              to make it a bit easier. And I know the fry need good places to hide ... are
                                              artificial plants okay or do they have to be live plants? What would be best
                                              algae eater for a nursery tank? Or do I not need an algae eater at all for
                                              nursery tank?

                                              Any other pointers on black mollies having babies would be much appreciated.
                                              :D

                                              Erin
                                              Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 625 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Fun with driftwood... ugh
                                              THanks Amalthea
                                              I might give it 2 more weeks in the bath! failing that dosn't work
                                              I'll get some slate. I never really thoght of that! D'uh!
                                              Thanks again
                                              Chris :D

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                              <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                              > some pieces of driftwood will float even after 3 months of
                                              submersion.
                                              > the best bet is to get a clean piece of slate and screw the
                                              driftwood
                                              > onto it to weight it down, or you can get aquarium weights and bury
                                              > them in the substrate after tying the wood to it. so long as the
                                              ends
                                              > are clean, the burned end shouldn't affect the water chemistry too
                                              > badly as it's basically charcoal.
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 30, 2004, at 3:13 PM, Chris wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Hi Again guys.
                                              > >
                                              > > Last week I purchased a piece of Driftwood from my local aquarium
                                              > > supply store, and I have a couple of problems with it:
                                              > > 1- It floats!
                                              > > 2- I discovered that one of the ends has been burnt and is
                                              charred.
                                              > >
                                              > > It is a pretty big peice, and it only cost NZ$11 (like US$6.50),
                                              and
                                              > > I have had it in an unused bathtub held underwater with a rock.
                                              After
                                              > > a week it is still boyant. Do I keep it underwater for longer and
                                              > > just be patient? And what do I do about the burnt bit at the end-
                                              I'm
                                              > > worried that it would mess around with water chemistry.
                                              > > HELP!!!
                                              > >
                                              > > Chris :D
                                              > >
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 626 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: tank leveling question and cycling question Thanks Chris.  I was going to add platys next.  Are they pretty hardy or would they not stand the nitrite spike?



                                              From: "Chris" <kava_man_spr@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:24:41 -0000
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: tank leveling question and cycling question


                                              Hi Mary!
                                              Thougth I'd let you know that I have 1 tank on an uneven floor and it
                                              has been for about 3 years! At first I moved it around heaps to try
                                              and find a place where the floor is level, and I had no luck so I
                                              left it where is was. I just put a bit of black tape across thje top
                                              of the tank so you can't see the water level. Cheap solution! Avout
                                              the floor- its still fine!
                                              About the nitrates and such- I think you would need a few more fish
                                              in the tank to get things moving? Gaint Danios I found are good for
                                              that sort of thing becuase they are very hardy- and good looking!
                                              Hope it all works out for you!

                                              Chris



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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 627 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: our question
                                              Hy there Colleen and Theresa
                                               
                                              Name's Shawn here.
                                               
                                              Takes a bit of plannin' to figure out what fish and how to set up a tank hmm.  Just to get you started, I'd recommend thinking about what size tank you can afford or find and approximately how many fish you want to keep (and then double it LOL.. coz you'll want more!).  Assuming that you'll want a typical community type tank that can hold a few different types of freshwater fish, they recommend 1" of adult fish per 1 gal. of water.  So if you want just five 2" adult fish in the end, then a 10 gallon tank or larger would be okay.  If you wanted a dozen 1.5" schooling small fish, and a few 2" - 3" fish, you'd want a 30 gallon tank or larger.  If (especially a beginner) tries to cram more than that into a tank, it can overwhelm the tanks natural ecosystem and crash everything so-to-speak) 
                                               
                                              (1) So my suggestion would be to go to the fish store and find what fishies look neat to you.  I'd look at all the tanks that are labeled for community fish.  Then come back here and ask about them to see if anybody had objections or whatnot.
                                               
                                              (2) I'd suggest learning about cycling a tank.  This is the beginning time when you start up the tank.. if you don't understand about it, you can cause unknowing harm to your fish.  You can cycle a tank with or without fish.
                                               
                                              (3) And I'd suggest that you get a test kit or two to check pH, nitrites, ammonia and nitrates (what I call water chemistry) before you have your entire setup put together.
                                               
                                              I made a site of info I've picked up through the past months on setting up a first timers tank.  Hopefully I can add fish that I've used and example starter tanks.. but until then, it talks about the cycling, different types of filters, and the basic things you need to start a tank.  Let me know if you have any questions... whether you found it helpful, things missing, yada yada yada.  I'm just a beginner though so what I talk about please just takes as my experiences, not as the right or wrong way to start a tank. :) 
                                               
                                              Happy fish keeping :)
                                               
                                               
                                               
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 12:28 PM
                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] our question

                                              Hi there,
                                              I just joined the group here my partner and I are going to get some fish . She has had fish before however we decided to join a few yahoo groups on fish to learn a little more before getting them.
                                              What kinds of fish do you recommend and what kinds can you put together, What do you recommend we get also to help keep the tank clean and filters everything general info we need to know before getting some.
                                              Colleen and Theresa 
                                               
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 628 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              I havn't had much experience with Platys, though I have had other
                                              livebearers closely related and I found them to be very resiliant. I
                                              have always used Cycle (which makes the nitrite spike much less
                                              threatening)with new set ups and that has always made it very easy.
                                              I also have the benefit of being on rain water as apposed to town
                                              water. I have a friend who has always kept platys and he has never
                                              had any problems with them and has actually used them as
                                              introductory fish. Let me know when the spike occurs!
                                              Good luck!

                                              Chris

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mary
                                              Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@s...> wrote:
                                              > Thanks Chris. I was going to add platys next. Are they pretty
                                              hardy or
                                              > would they not stand the nitrite spike?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: "Chris" <kava_man_spr@y...>
                                              > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:24:41 -0000
                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: tank leveling
                                              question and
                                              > cycling question
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Hi Mary!
                                              > Thougth I'd let you know that I have 1 tank on an uneven floor and
                                              it
                                              > has been for about 3 years! At first I moved it around heaps to try
                                              > and find a place where the floor is level, and I had no luck so I
                                              > left it where is was. I just put a bit of black tape across thje
                                              top
                                              > of the tank so you can't see the water level. Cheap solution! Avout
                                              > the floor- its still fine!
                                              > About the nitrates and such- I think you would need a few more fish
                                              > in the tank to get things moving? Gaint Danios I found are good for
                                              > that sort of thing becuase they are very hardy- and good looking!
                                              > Hope it all works out for you!
                                              >
                                              > Chris
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 629 From: Chris Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                              How did it go after you cleaned the pipes?
                                              Let me know :)

                                              Chris

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                              <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > hi Chris,
                                              >
                                              > I think i know the culprit.
                                              >
                                              > You have rightly mentioned i think its from the pipe.
                                              >
                                              > I have this setup running since Mar.,2003 almost a year now.
                                              >
                                              > And whenever i clean the filter spogne and restart the filter i
                                              see a cloud of debris comming..out of the tube...and it never struck
                                              to me that it might be from the pipes
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for your suggestion will do it today itself...thanks a
                                              lot....SuNnY !
                                              >
                                              > --- Chris <kava_man_spr@y...> wrote:
                                              > > Hi Sunny
                                              > >
                                              > > I once had a similar build up in a temperate tank
                                              > > set up with an
                                              > > external fluval filter. I discovered it was caused
                                              > > by a build up of
                                              > > debris in the pipes between the filter and the tank.
                                              > > Ever since then,
                                              > > I have cleaned the pipes once a month and the
                                              > > problem hasn't come
                                              > > back. How long have you had the set up? How long
                                              > > have you had the
                                              > > problem?
                                              > >
                                              > > Hope its some help to you
                                              > >
                                              > > C
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > sunil kamath
                                              > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > Hi,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Theres some dust/husk like powder (brownish in
                                              > > colour
                                              > > > ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as anubias
                                              > > > plants. They also get accumulated on the driftwood
                                              > > i
                                              > > > have in my tank.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Its a 55gal planted community tank with Eheim
                                              > > filter.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Can anybody suggest What this is and how can i get
                                              > > rid
                                              > > > of it ??
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra plankton and
                                              > > > dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my LFS, apart
                                              > > > from blood worms.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Any guidance will highly be appreciated...SuNnY !
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > __________________________________
                                              > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool.
                                              > > Try it!
                                              > > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ---------------------------------
                                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 630 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: our question
                                              Hi,
                                              A famous icthyologist ( Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod ) took issue with the 1 inch per gallon rule, indicating something on the order that a 2 inch fish can be four or more times bigger than a one inch fish, and any number larger than one inch can have multiples that, if you consider the one-inch-rule as composed to accomodate soundness of mind in optimizing the organic work load of the filtration systems, throws the one-inch rule out the window. I've heard from a fish proprietor, that people tend to buy aquariums like they buy pictures to hang on the wall. The more color and movement they can shove into a system, the more pleased with the situation they are. If you go into a habit with an understanding that you're trying to approximate an eco-system, then you're less likely to be disappointed when the picture becomes too horrible to look at.
                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 631 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                              hey chris,

                                              I sat to clean yesterday but then realised i dont have anything that long  to clean the pipes   How do u clean the pipes tubes that looong
                                               
                                              Pls advise....since its a weekend my grey cells are not working
                                               
                                              ....SuNnY !

                                              --- Chris <kava_man_spr@...> wrote:
                                              > How did it go after you cleaned the pipes?
                                              > Let me know :)
                                              >
                                              > Chris
                                              >
                                              > --- In
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > sunil kamath
                                              > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > > hi Chris,
                                              > >
                                              > > I think i know the culprit.
                                              > >
                                              > > You have rightly mentioned i think its from the
                                              > pipe.
                                              > >
                                              > > I have this setup running since Mar.,2003 almost a
                                              > year now.
                                              > >
                                              > > And whenever i clean the filter spogne and restart
                                              > the filter i
                                              > see a cloud of debris comming..out of the tube...and
                                              > it never struck
                                              > to me that it might be from the pipes
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks for your suggestion will do it today
                                              > itself...thanks a
                                              > lot....SuNnY !
                                              > >
                                              > > --- Chris <kava_man_spr@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > Hi Sunny
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I once had a similar build up in a temperate
                                              > tank
                                              > > > set up with an
                                              > > > external fluval filter. I discovered it was
                                              > caused
                                              > > > by a build up of
                                              > > > debris in the pipes between the filter and the
                                              > tank.
                                              > > > Ever since then,
                                              > > > I have cleaned the pipes once a month and the
                                              > > > problem hasn't come
                                              > > > back. How long have you had the set up? How long
                                              >
                                              > > > have you had the
                                              > > > problem?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Hope its some help to you
                                              > > >
                                              > > > C
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In
                                              > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > > sunil kamath
                                              > > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > > Hi,
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Theres some dust/husk like powder (brownish in
                                              >
                                              > > > colour
                                              > > > > ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as
                                              > anubias
                                              > > > > plants. They also get accumulated on the
                                              > driftwood
                                              > > > i
                                              > > > > have in my tank.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Its a 55gal planted community tank with Eheim
                                              > > > filter.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Can anybody suggest What this is and how can i
                                              > get
                                              > > > rid
                                              > > > > of it ??
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra plankton
                                              > and
                                              > > > > dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my LFS,
                                              > apart
                                              > > > > from blood worms.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Any guidance will highly be
                                              > appreciated...SuNnY !
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > __________________________________
                                              > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building
                                              > tool.
                                              > > > Try it!
                                              > > > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ---------------------------------
                                              > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool.
                                              > Try it!
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              Do you Yahoo!?
                                              Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 632 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                               its a material used for packing hmmm electrical equipments like TV, VCR, or any thing in a carton box. Its a white colour and light weight material !!
                                               
                                              Guys any other suggestions .....SuNnY !

                                              "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                              What is a thermocoal?  Never heard of it.

                                              From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 06:42:46 -0800 (PST)
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tank leveling question and cycling question


                                              Hi Mary,

                                              Dont worry and also dont be in a hurry :) I can
                                              understand how hard it is to wait... But patience is
                                              the key to success here.

                                              And as regards getting the tank exactly level is quite
                                              important to avoid any leaks, between the tank joints
                                              etc.

                                              U can do this by either keeping a THERMOCOAL ( hope i
                                              spelt it right ) under your tanks full length.

                                              If anybody has any other idea or suggestion pls put
                                              ffwd the same.

                                              hope this helps.....SuNnY !
                                              --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                              > How important is to have have the tank exactly
                                              > level?  Obviously my floor is
                                              > not.  When looking at the front of the tank, there
                                              > is about .25" difference
                                              > between the right and left and when looking at the
                                              > side, there is almost the
                                              > same.  I probably should put something under a
                                              > couple of corners to get it
                                              > perfectly level, but don't want to remove any water
                                              > until it finally cycles.
                                              >
                                              > We will be starting week 3 next Monday.  Still
                                              > waiting for ammonia and
                                              > nitrites to appear.  Do you think I need to add
                                              > another fish or two to get
                                              > this going?  Are 4 tetras enough to cycle a 29 gal.?
                                              >  I just assumed I'd
                                              > have at least something by now.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for info.
                                              >
                                              > Mary
                                              >


                                              __________________________________
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 633 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                              you can buy long flexible brushes that are specifically designed for
                                              the task at most pet stores...
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 31, 2004, at 1:34 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

                                              > hey chris,
                                              >
                                              > I sat to clean yesterday but then realised i dont have anything that
                                              > long  to clean the pipes <image.tiff>  How do u clean the pipes tubes
                                              > that looong <image.tiff>
                                              >  
                                              > Pls advise....since its a weekend my grey cells are not working
                                              > <image.tiff>
                                              >  
                                              > ....SuNnY !
                                              >
                                              > --- Chris <kava_man_spr@...> wrote:
                                              > > How did it go after you cleaned the pipes?
                                              > > Let me know :)
                                              > >
                                              > > Chris
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > sunil kamath
                                              > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > hi Chris,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I think i know the culprit.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > You have rightly mentioned i think its from the
                                              > > pipe.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I have this setup running since Mar.,2003 almost a
                                              > > year now.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > And whenever i clean the filter spogne and restart
                                              > > the filter i
                                              > > see a cloud of debris comming..out of the tube...and
                                              > > it never struck
                                              > > to me that it might be from the pipes
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Thanks for your suggestion will do it today
                                              > > itself...thanks a
                                              > > lot....SuNnY !
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- Chris <kava_man_spr@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > > Hi Sunny
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I once had a similar build up in a temperate
                                              > > tank
                                              > > > > set up with an
                                              > > > > external fluval filter. I discovered it was
                                              > > caused
                                              > > > > by a build up of
                                              > > > > debris in the pipes between the filter and the
                                              > > tank.
                                              > > > > Ever since then,
                                              > > > > I have cleaned the pipes once a month and the
                                              > > > > problem hasn't come
                                              > > > > back. How long have you had the set up? How long
                                              > >
                                              > > > > have you had the
                                              > > > > problem?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Hope its some help to you
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > C
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- In
                                              > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > > > sunil kamath
                                              > > > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > > > Hi,
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > &! gt; > > Theres some dust/husk like powder (brownish in
                                              > >
                                              > > > > colour
                                              > > > > > ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as
                                              > > anubias
                                              > > > > > plants. They also get accumulated on the
                                              > > driftwood
                                              > > > > i
                                              > > > > > have in my tank.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Its a 55gal planted community tank with Eheim
                                              > > > > filter.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Can anybody suggest What this is and how can i
                                              > > get
                                              > > > > rid
                                              > > > > > of it ??
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra plankton
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > > dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my LFS,
                                              > > apart
                                              > > > > > from blood worms.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Any guidance will highly be
                                              > > appreciated...SuNnY !
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > __________________________________
                                              > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building
                                              > > tool.
                                              > > > > Try it!
                                              > > > > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ---------------------------------
                                              > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool.
                                              > > Try it!
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > <image.tiff>
                                              > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >  
                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >  
                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >


                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 634 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: tank leveling question and cycling question
                                              no need to strain urself for just 1/4th inch..
                                               
                                              It doest matter for the fishes and as long as u are happy with it, its fine... !!
                                               
                                              ....SuNnY !

                                              "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                              It is distributed as evenly as possible.  The laminate under the tank is just concrete underneath.  The floor is already messed up because we didn't level the floor before putting it down and discovered after the fact, how unlevel the floor actually was.  Our house sits on a slope also, so that doesn't help.  The front of the house is higher than the back.  Marbles roll across the floor in certain areas.  LOL  

                                              Do you think that 1/4"difference will make that much of a difference?  Should I drain the tank and get it perfectly level or just stay as is and let the cycling finish?

                                              Mary

                                              From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:40:51 -0500
                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tank leveling question and cycling question


                                              it's not as important to your fish as it is to your floor. the law of
                                              the tank being level is basically just because a fill fish tank can be
                                              EXTREMELY heavy and you want the weight evenly distributed. i would
                                              imagine nothing to be more upsetting that hearing a groan and a crash
                                              in the night as your beautiful tank and fish went crashing through the
                                              floor.
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 30, 2004, at 9:20 AM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                              > How important is to have have the tank exactly level?  Obviously my
                                              > floor is
                                              > not.  When looking at the front of the tank, there is about .25"
                                              > difference
                                              > between the right and left and when looking at the side, there is
                                              > almost the
                                              > same.  I probably should put something under a couple of corners to
                                              > get it
                                              > perfectly level, but don't want to remove any water until it finally
                                              > cycles.
                                              >
                                              > We will be starting week 3 next Monday.  Still waiting for ammonia and
                                              > nitrites to appear.  Do you think I need to add another fish or two to
                                              > get
                                              > this going?  Are 4 tetras enough to cycle a 29 gal.?  I just assumed
                                              > I'd
                                              > have at least something by now.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for info.
                                              >
                                              > Mary
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >  �  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                              >  
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                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                              religion....




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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 635 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Fun with driftwood... ugh
                                              HI chris,
                                               
                                              Firstly why did u buy a drift wood which was charred ??
                                               
                                              In my LFS they have drift wood in his pond which is well seasoned. I bought from there.. so see if u can return yours back and find a lfs who has a seasoned one which is in any of his running tanks..
                                               
                                              I think u can also boil the d/w in hot water, i am not sure so u better wait for some pro to answer ur question....SuNnY !

                                              Chris <kava_man_spr@...> wrote:
                                              Hi Again guys.

                                              Last week I purchased a piece of Driftwood from my local aquarium
                                              supply store, and I have a couple of problems with it:
                                              1- It floats!
                                              2- I discovered that one of the ends has been burnt and is charred.

                                              It is a pretty big peice, and it only cost NZ$11 (like US$6.50), and
                                              I have had it in an unused bathtub held underwater with a rock. After
                                              a week it is still boyant. Do I keep it underwater for longer and
                                              just be patient? And what do I do about the burnt bit at the end- I'm
                                              worried that it would mess around with water chemistry.
                                              HELP!!!

                                              Chris :D





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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 636 From: sunil kamath Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                              hi amalthea - good night or is it midnight
                                               
                                              U still awake..its 4:10pm here in japan.
                                               
                                              Anyway thanks for ur suggestion will visit my lfs on my way back in the evening....SuNnY !

                                              amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                              you can buy long flexible brushes that are specifically designed for
                                              the task at most pet stores...
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 31, 2004, at 1:34 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

                                              > hey chris,
                                              >
                                              > I sat to clean yesterday but then realised i dont have anything that
                                              > long  to clean the pipes   How do u clean the pipes tubes
                                              > that looong
                                              >  
                                              > Pls advise....since its a weekend my grey cells are not working
                                              >
                                              >  
                                              > ....SuNnY !
                                              >
                                              > --- Chris wrote:
                                              > > How did it go after you cleaned the pipes?
                                              > > Let me know :)
                                              > >
                                              > > Chris
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > sunil kamath
                                              > > wrote:
                                              > > > hi Chris,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I think i know the culprit.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > You have rightly mentioned i think its from the
                                              > > pipe.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I have this setup running since Mar.,2003 almost a
                                              > > year now.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > And whenever i clean the filter spogne and restart
                                              > > the filter i
                                              > > see a cloud of debris comming..out of the tube...and
                                              > > it never struck
                                              > > to me that it might be from the pipes
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Thanks for your suggestion will do it today
                                              > > itself...thanks a
                                              > > lot....SuNnY !
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- Chris wrote:
                                              > > > > Hi Sunny
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I once had a similar build up in a temperate
                                              > > tank
                                              > > > > set up with an
                                              > > > > external fluval filter. I discovered it was
                                              > > caused
                                              > > > > by a build up of
                                              > > > > debris in the pipes between the filter and the
                                              > > tank.
                                              > > > > Ever since then,
                                              > > > > I have cleaned the pipes once a month and the
                                              > > > > problem hasn't come
                                              > > > > back. How long have you had the set up? How long
                                              > >
                                              > > > > have you had the
                                              > > > > problem?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Hope its some help to you
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > C
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- In
                                              > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > > > sunil kamath
                                              > > > > wrote:
                                              > > > > > Hi,
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > &! gt; > > Theres some dust/husk like powder (brownish in
                                              > >
                                              > > > > colour
                                              > > > > > ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as
                                              > > anubias
                                              > > > > > plants. They also get accumulated on the
                                              > > driftwood
                                              > > > > i
                                              > > > > > have in my tank.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Its a 55gal planted community tank with Eheim
                                              > > > > filter.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Can anybody suggest What this is and how can i
                                              > > get
                                              > > > > rid
                                              > > > > > of it ??
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra plankton
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > > dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my LFS,
                                              > > apart
                                              > > > > > from blood worms.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Any guidance will highly be
                                              > > appreciated...SuNnY !
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > __________________________________
                                              > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building
                                              > > tool.
                                              > > > > Try it!
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                                              > > >
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                                              > > > ---------------------------------
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 637 From: amalthea23 Date: 1/30/2004
                                              Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                              i'm awake, but my boyfriend is over so i'm only checking in on mail
                                              periodically :)
                                              amalthea
                                              On Jan 31, 2004, at 2:08 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

                                              > hi amalthea - good night or is it midnight <image.tiff>
                                              >  
                                              > U still awake..its 4:10pm here in japan.
                                              >  
                                              > Anyway thanks for ur suggestion will visit my lfs on my way back in
                                              > the evening....SuNnY !
                                              >
                                              > amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>wrote:
                                              > you can buy long flexible brushes that are specifically designed for
                                              > the task at most pet stores...
                                              > amalthea
                                              > On Jan 31, 2004, at 1:34 AM, sunil kamath wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > hey chris,
                                              > >
                                              > > I sat to clean yesterday but then realised i dont have anything that
                                              > > long  to clean the pipes  How do u clean the pipes tubes
                                              > > that looong
                                              > >  
                                              > > Pls advise....since its a weekend my grey cells are not working
                                              > >
                                              > >  
                                              > > ....SuNnY !
                                              > >
                                              > > --- Chriswrote:
                                              > > > How did it go after you cleaned the pipes?
                                              > > > Let me know :)
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Chris
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In
                                              > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > > sunil kamath
                                              > > >wrote:
                                              > > > > ! hi Chris,
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I think i know the culprit.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > You have rightly mentioned i think its from the
                                              > > > pipe.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I have this setup running since Mar.,2003 almost a
                                              > > > year now.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > And whenever i clean the filter spogne and restart
                                              > > > the filter i
                                              > > > see a cloud of debris comming..out of the tube...and
                                              > > > it never struck
                                              > > > to me that it might be from the pipes
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Thanks for your suggestion will do it today
                                              > > > itself...thanks a
                                              > > > lot....SuNnY !
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- Chriswrote:
                                              > > > > > Hi Sunny
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I once had a similar build up in a temperate
                                              > > > tank
                                              > > > > > set up with an
                                              > > > > > external fluval filter. I discovered it was
                                              > > > caused
                                              > > > > > by a build up of
                                              > > > > > debris in the pipes between the filter and the
                                              > > > tank.
                                              > > > > > Ever since then,
                                              > > > > > I have cleaned the pipes once a month and the
                                              > > > > > problem hasn't come
                                              > > > > > back. How long have you had the set up? How long
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > > have you had the
                                              > > > > > problem?
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Hope its some help to you
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > C
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > --- In
                                              > > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > > > > sunil kamath
                                              > > > > >wrote:
                                              > > > > > > Hi,
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > &! gt; > > Theres some dust/husk like powder (brownish in
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > > colour
                                              > > > > > > ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as
                                              > > > anubias
                                              > > > > > > plants. They also get accumulated on the
                                              > > > driftwood
                                              > > > > > i
                                              > > > > > > have in my tank.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Its a 55gal planted community tank with Eheim
                                              > > > > > filter.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Can anybody suggest What this is and how can i
                                              > > > get
                                              > > > > > rid
                                              > > > > > > of it ??
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra plankton
                                              > > > and
                                              > > > > > > dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my LFS,
                                              > > > apart
                                              > > > > > > from blood worms.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Any guidance will highly be
                                              > > > appreciated...SuNnY !
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > __________________________________
                                              > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > > > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building
                                              > > > tool.
                                              > > > > > Try it!
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                                              > > > > >
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                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 638 From: Chris Date: 1/31/2004
                                              Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                              Hey Sunny

                                              You can even just soak the pipes in VERY hot water for about 15 mins
                                              and then rinse through with cold water. If your tubes a really
                                              grubby, get the long cleaning brush.
                                              Good luck!

                                              Chris

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                              <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > hey chris,
                                              >
                                              > I sat to clean yesterday but then realised i dont have anything
                                              that long to clean the pipes How do u clean the pipes tubes that
                                              looong
                                              >
                                              > Pls advise....since its a weekend my grey cells are not working
                                              >
                                              > ....SuNnY !
                                              >
                                              > --- Chris <kava_man_spr@y...> wrote:
                                              > > How did it go after you cleaned the pipes?
                                              > > Let me know :)
                                              > >
                                              > > Chris
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In
                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > sunil kamath
                                              > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > hi Chris,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I think i know the culprit.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > You have rightly mentioned i think its from the
                                              > > pipe.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I have this setup running since Mar.,2003 almost a
                                              > > year now.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > And whenever i clean the filter spogne and restart
                                              > > the filter i
                                              > > see a cloud of debris comming..out of the tube...and
                                              > > it never struck
                                              > > to me that it might be from the pipes
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Thanks for your suggestion will do it today
                                              > > itself...thanks a
                                              > > lot....SuNnY !
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- Chris <kava_man_spr@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > > Hi Sunny
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I once had a similar build up in a temperate
                                              > > tank
                                              > > > > set up with an
                                              > > > > external fluval filter. I discovered it was
                                              > > caused
                                              > > > > by a build up of
                                              > > > > debris in the pipes between the filter and the
                                              > > tank.
                                              > > > > Ever since then,
                                              > > > > I have cleaned the pipes once a month and the
                                              > > > > problem hasn't come
                                              > > > > back. How long have you had the set up? How long
                                              > >
                                              > > > > have you had the
                                              > > > > problem?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Hope its some help to you
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > C
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > --- In
                                              > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > > > > sunil kamath
                                              > > > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                              > > > > > Hi,
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Theres some dust/husk like powder (brownish in
                                              > >
                                              > > > > colour
                                              > > > > > ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as
                                              > > anubias
                                              > > > > > plants. They also get accumulated on the
                                              > > driftwood
                                              > > > > i
                                              > > > > > have in my tank.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Its a 55gal planted community tank with Eheim
                                              > > > > filter.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Can anybody suggest What this is and how can i
                                              > > get
                                              > > > > rid
                                              > > > > > of it ??
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra plankton
                                              > > and
                                              > > > > > dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my LFS,
                                              > > apart
                                              > > > > > from blood worms.
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Any guidance will highly be
                                              > > appreciated...SuNnY !
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > __________________________________
                                              > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                              > > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building
                                              > > tool.
                                              > > > > Try it!
                                              > > > > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ---------------------------------
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 639 From: The Hamburgs Date: 1/31/2004
                                              Subject: Re: our question
                                              well that one confusered me.. doesn't take much though. LOL
                                               
                                              if yer saying how the 1" rule is not true, .. well duh. yeah., it's actually compared to the surface area of the water and lots more that I could care less to learn about or get into coz my tanks are working just fine to me.  But to me, it's a good beginners rule of thumb to start off a new tank and get them thinking larger instead of oh yeah., I can fit 20 fish in this 10 gallon tank., coz they prolly won't have good luck with that scenario..  I think most beginners are thinking 10 gallon tank, not 30 or 55 or whatever.  And then they realize after they bought everything that they do need a larger tank coz the fish are crammed, croaking and need more space.
                                               
                                               
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 9:14 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] our question

                                                 Hi,
                                                   A famous icthyologist ( Dr. Herbert R. Axelrod ) took issue with the 1 inch per gallon rule, indicating something on the order that a 2 inch fish can be four or more times bigger than a one inch fish, and any number larger than one inch can have multiples that, if you consider the one-inch-rule as composed to accomodate soundness of mind in optimizing the organic work load of the filtration systems, throws the one-inch rule out the window. I've heard from a fish proprietor, that people tend to buy aquariums like they buy pictures to hang on the wall. The more color and movement they can shove into a system, the more pleased with the situation they are. If you go into a habit with an understanding that you're trying to approximate an eco-system, then you're less likely to be disappointed when the picture becomes too horrible to look at.
                                                                     Joe Pascavage




                                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 640 From: Cyndy Date: 1/31/2004
                                              Subject: Piping
                                              I had a tetra start piping yesterday. The day before he seemed to be
                                              gasping air (lips moving furiously.) The research I did didn't give
                                              me a variety on hints about what could be causing it, except for
                                              possibly gill parasites. One website suggested that I add salt to
                                              the tank at about a teaspoon a gallon to get rid of the gill
                                              parasites. But I was a little scared to do that, not knowing how my
                                              other fish would react (I have a Betta and 3 small skunk corys and
                                              one other tetra in there.) I did do a 50% water change and added a
                                              couple of teasoons of water to the 15 gallon tank. This morning the
                                              fish was dead. I am looking at him and I don't see gill
                                              parasites...maybe they are too small to see? What should I have done
                                              and what should I do if this effects another fish of mine?

                                              ~Cyndy
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 641 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 1/31/2004
                                              Subject: Re: our question
                                              The following is from "Dr. Axelrods Mini-Atlas of Freshwater Aquarium Fishes Mini Edition " (992 pages) And the disagreement with the-one-inch- rule was taken from the book that bears his name, but was written by a co-author, Dr. Cliff W. Burgess I completely forgot about Dr.Axelrod's thesis and if it relates to oxygen turnover. Found the stuff searching through my books;

                                              "An aquarium with bare rocks and gravelcan support a given amount of fish life by virtue of it's air-water interface exchange, as long as partial water changes are made every few days so as to keep toxic products diluted and gross mulm or uneaten food removed. A filter would increase this capacity, as would aeration. Plants make little difference, as we have seen, because they don't much affect oxygen supplies on average.
                                              In other booke, you will find inch-per-gallon rules, that are not very helpful because a one-inch fish weighs 1/8th of a 2 inch fish of the same overall shape, so that it clearly uses up more like 1/8th of the oxygen and puts out a corresponding amount of carbon-dioxide and other waste products. However, even this is not strictly correct, since smaller, often younger fishes are more active, are growing relatively faster, and actually fall somewhere in between length-of-fish rules, and weight-of-fish rules.
                                              The basis of calculations is therefore, as proposed by myself (CWE) 30 YEARS AGO (THIS BOOK WAS COPYRIGHTED 1987, around when I started keeping fish, by trying to rescue a single corydora aeneus, who was alone in a 1-gallon algaenated tank, about 5/6th's full, in a vacated apartment where we were working, who shortly after finding him a mate, took part in re-generation of Corydoras') the 6.2 cm (at that time the 2 1/2 inch) tropical fish, which is allowed 130 cm2 (20 square inches) of aquarium surface area. This is in line with general experience and is on the generous side , therefore allowing for growth and for mistakes inaquarium maintainance on the pard of its owner. Aeration\and general good practice (see later) can halve this requirement, but only in experienced hands. For coldwater fishes, including the general run of goldfish, multiply by 3 and allow 400 cm2 of surface area per fish. For fancy goldfish varieties such as lionheads, bubble-eyes and other handicapped types, allow 800cm2, per 6.25 cm of fish. A fish is measured from snout to the base of the tail, so that this calculation does NOT include tail length.


                                              Body length No. of fishes per Square cm
                                              in cm 1000 cm2 of surface per fish(approx.)
                                              ________________________________________________________________________________
                                              1 400 2.5
                                              2 110 9
                                              3 50 20
                                              4 25 40
                                              5 12 80
                                              6 8 125
                                              8 5 200
                                              10 2 500
                                              12 1 750
                                              15 1 1100

                                              The results of this rule for various lengths of fish have been shown. It does not matter if a fish is slim or full-bodied; slimmer fishes are usually more active and demand more oxygen. Smaller fishes are also given more oxygen-i.e., more tank surface in proportion to their weight.
                                              Readers will see what very large differences may occur from the results of the 1-inch per-gallon or similar rules. Many more smaller tropical fishes could be housed in, say, a 90 cm tank than this would allow, but fewer larger fishes. Most tropicals are small when purchased and can be crowded to a remarkable extent. At the same time, don't be misled by the gross crowding often seen in dealers tanks - the fishes would'nt do well indefinately in such conditions. The rule can be varied for air-breathing fishes such as Gouramis' for obvious reasons. Twice as many could be housed as far as tank capacity is concerned, but other considerations such as excreta and the nitrogen-cyclewould prevent permanent housing under such conditions without very frequent water-changes. When a tank of mixed sizes of fishes is to be set up, how do we use the rule? We must make a trial calculation along the following lines:
                                              In a 90 x 35cm tank, surface area 3150cm2, how would the following assortment do?
                                              6 neons, each 3cm long =6 x 20cm2 = 120 cm2
                                              12 mixed barbs, each 5cm long =12 x 80cm2 = 960 cm2
                                              4 anabatids, each 8cm long = 4 x 100cm2 = 400cm2
                                              2 corydoras, each 6cm long = 2 x 125cm2 = 250cm2
                                              4 angels, each 5cm long = 4 x 80cm2 = 320cm2
                                              __________________
                                              Total 2050 cm2

                                              ANSWER--even with an assortment of 28 rather large tropicals, there is planty room for more; with good aeration, more than twice as many in a well established tank in the hands of a good aquarist.
                                              Suppose these were coldwater fishes? Then we must multiply by 3, and would find that 6150 cm2 are really needed for such an assortment aqnd therefore that even with good aeraTION THEY WOULD SOON BE OVERCROWDED AND COULD NOT BE EXPECTED TO FLOURISH AND TO GROW IN SIZE.


                                              Joe Pascavage
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 642 From: Chris Date: 2/1/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Piping
                                              Hi Cyndy
                                              Have any other fish done the same thing? If not, you can probably
                                              rule out parasites. Have you done a good water change? Thats the best
                                              cure for heaps of problems as you'll know. I hope your other fish are
                                              ok :( Poor little guy!
                                              Good Luck
                                              Chris

                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Cyndy"
                                              <cynthiamckee@c...> wrote:
                                              > I had a tetra start piping yesterday. The day before he seemed to
                                              be
                                              > gasping air (lips moving furiously.) The research I did didn't
                                              give
                                              > me a variety on hints about what could be causing it, except for
                                              > possibly gill parasites. One website suggested that I add salt to
                                              > the tank at about a teaspoon a gallon to get rid of the gill
                                              > parasites. But I was a little scared to do that, not knowing how my
                                              > other fish would react (I have a Betta and 3 small skunk corys and
                                              > one other tetra in there.) I did do a 50% water change and added a
                                              > couple of teasoons of water to the 15 gallon tank. This morning
                                              the
                                              > fish was dead. I am looking at him and I don't see gill
                                              > parasites...maybe they are too small to see? What should I have
                                              done
                                              > and what should I do if this effects another fish of mine?
                                              >
                                              > ~Cyndy
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 643 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/1/2004
                                              Subject: Ornament
                                              I was wondering if anyone knew if there was a toilet bowl Ornament
                                              and where i could find it. My room's son asked where the fish go to
                                              the bathroom and we told him behind the rocks in the tank. i wanted
                                              to get a toilet bowl Ornament, just to be funny.


                                              Thanks

                                              Eric
                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 644 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/1/2004
                                              Subject: Re: Ornament
                                              look on ebay, that's probably your best bet. or do a google search...
                                              amalthea
                                              On Feb 1, 2004, at 4:15 PM, red_5sw@... wrote:

                                              > I was wondering if anyone knew if there was a toilet bowl Ornament
                                              > and where i could find it. My room's son asked where the fish go to
                                              > the bathroom and we told him behind the rocks in the tank. i wanted
                                              > to get a toilet bowl Ornament, just to be funny.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Thanks
                                              >
                                              >       Eric
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
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                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 645 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/2/2004
                                              Subject: Dwarf Albino Frogs?
                                              Attachments :
                                                 Hi there,
                                                 
                                                 I have an all black and white tank, Black gravel, white, black and one centered red plant and it is filled with Dalmation, Black and Platinum Mollies. I saw these Dwarf Albino Frogs at a pet store that we don't frequent due to the distance from out home, but thought they would go GREAT in my black and white tank.  
                                                 
                                                Has anyone had any experience on these little guys??  How big they get? what kind of water they like? what they eat? etc. They knew NOTHING at this store. do they multiply if I get more than one etc etc.
                                                 
                                                 The tank they would be going in is a 29 gallon.
                                                 
                                                Thanks so much,
                                                Kelly
                                                 
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 646 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/2/2004
                                                Subject: we've got babies!
                                                Okay, we didn't have any of the fish in the breeder box because we weren't
                                                sure if anyone was pregnant. I was sitting here a minute ago, posting to my
                                                live journal, and happened to glance over and saw a fry! I've managed to
                                                catch 7 and move them to the breeder box so they won't get eaten, and I see
                                                at least one more that keeps hiding behind the tubes that hold the air lines
                                                (net won't fit in that corner) I've also seen them swimming under a thin
                                                layer of gravel, so they are quick and already hiding well!

                                                I've got to run to the store after taking my daughter to school, to get more
                                                flake food and some toothpicks to feed the fry with. Just thought I'd share
                                                the news with you all! All of the fry are light colored, some have dark
                                                speckles. Will they keep that coloring or will they change as they grow
                                                bigger?

                                                I'm going to send a note with my daughter to school to see if the
                                                kindergarten class is interested in any of the babies... :)

                                                Erin
                                                Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
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                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 647 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/2/2004
                                                Subject: Re: we've got babies!
                                                 Hi Erin,
                                                 
                                                  Congrats!!  Isn't it exciting?? No matter how many times my moms have babies I am always just as excited.
                                                 
                                                You didn't mention what kind of fish had the babies.  As for them changing looks.. The only babies that I have had that have pretty much stayed the same looks wise are my red swortails. The rest change almost daily.  ( I breed swordtails, guppies and mollies)
                                                 
                                                Keep is posted and good luck catching the rest of them!!
                                                Kelly
                                                 
                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                 
                                                Date: 02/02/2004 11:12:47 AM
                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] we've got babies!
                                                 
                                                Okay, we didn't have any of the fish in the breeder box because we weren't
                                                sure if anyone was pregnant. I was sitting here a minute ago, posting to my
                                                live journal, and happened to glance over and saw a fry! I've managed to
                                                catch 7 and move them to the breeder box so they won't get eaten, and I see
                                                at least one more that keeps hiding behind the tubes that hold the air lines
                                                (net won't fit in that corner) I've also seen them swimming under a thin
                                                layer of gravel, so they  are quick and already hiding well!

                                                I've got to run to the store after taking my daughter to school, to get more
                                                flake food and some toothpicks to feed the fry with. Just thought I'd share
                                                the news with you all! All of the fry are light colored, some have dark
                                                speckles. Will they keep that coloring or will they change as they grow
                                                bigger?

                                                I'm going to send a note with my daughter to school to see if the
                                                kindergarten class is interested in any of the babies... :)

                                                Erin
                                                Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html



                                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                 
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 648 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/2/2004
                                                Subject: Re: we've got babies!
                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] we've got babies! That is so cool!  I'd love to have some babies.  Right now in the cycling tank we've got 4 long finned black skirted tetras.  3 have very dark stripes and 1 is bigger, but has lighter stripes, so I'm hoping we have at least one female.  Bought 3 marigold variatus platys yesterday.  One is almost all yellow and the other two are yellow, orange and red, so once again, hoping these color variations mean we have male and female.  Good luck catching all the little buggers!

                                                Mary

                                                From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:30:40 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                To: "Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium" <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] we've got babies!


                                                Okay, we didn't have any of the fish in the breeder box because we weren't
                                                sure if anyone was pregnant. I was sitting here a minute ago, posting to my
                                                live journal, and happened to glance over and saw a fry! I've managed to
                                                catch 7 and move them to the breeder box so they won't get eaten, and I see
                                                at least one more that keeps hiding behind the tubes that hold the air lines
                                                (net won't fit in that corner) I've also seen them swimming under a thin
                                                layer of gravel, so they  are quick and already hiding well!

                                                I've got to run to the store after taking my daughter to school, to get more
                                                flake food and some toothpicks to feed the fry with. Just thought I'd share
                                                the news with you all! All of the fry are light colored, some have dark
                                                speckles. Will they keep that coloring or will they change as they grow
                                                bigger?

                                                I'm going to send a note with my daughter to school to see if the
                                                kindergarten class is interested in any of the babies... :)

                                                Erin
                                                Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html




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                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 649 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 2/2/2004
                                                Subject: Re: Dwarf Albino Frogs?
                                                Im not that savvy on these guys, but we keep the Dwarf frogs ourselves
                                                in the shop. We have had no bother at all with them in terms of water
                                                quality - they seem to do ok in your average tank. Breeding, ive no
                                                idea but it might require a species tank. We feed ours on the frozen
                                                bloodworm, and they have bogwood in their tank to hide and rest and the
                                                tannins seem to keep them as happy as larry:)

                                                Aileen


                                                On 2 Feb 2004, at 12:09, ~~Kelly~~ wrote:

                                                >  Hi there,
                                                >  
                                                >  I have an all black and white tank, Black gravel, white, black and
                                                > one centered red plant and it is filled with Dalmation, Black and
                                                > Platinum Mollies. I saw these Dwarf Albino Frogs at a pet store that
                                                > we don't frequent due to the distance from out home, but thought they
                                                > would go GREAT in my black and white tank.  
                                                >  
                                                > Has anyone had any experience on these little guys??  How big they
                                                > get? what kind of water they like? what they eat? etc. They knew
                                                > NOTHING at this store. do they multiply if I get more than one etc
                                                > etc.
                                                >  
                                                >  The tank they would be going in is a 29 gallon.
                                                >  
                                                > Thanks so much,
                                                > Kelly
                                                >  
                                                >  
                                                >  
                                                >                
                                                >  
                                                >  
                                                > <image.tiff> OWNER<image.tiff>
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                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
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                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                >  
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                                                >
                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 650 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/2/2004
                                                Subject: Re: we've got babies!
                                                Attachments :
                                                  Kelly ... I'm guessing one of the Mollies had the babies. They were sneaky about it LOL. We had one light molly that had spent most of yesterday hovering near the heater, only occasionally venturing out of that area to eat. She is hanging out below the breeder box now, maybe she had the babies? They look a little smaller than the molly fry we saw at the pet store last time we went, so that is what I am guessing. They are different color patterns, and hubby has already said that he wants to keep a couple of the fry when they get bigger. (We're even thinking of getting another tank, and just keeping whatever ones that don't get adopted. *grin*)
                                                   
                                                  Current count of fry in the breeder box is 15, and there is at least ONE that is eluding us. Every time we think we've got them all separated from the bigger fish, we see one hanging out by a plant, or swimming under some gravel, or darting under the log. They're quick, and so far have proven to be really adept at hiding. Oddly, despite what I've read about having to protect fry from older fish, none of the others seem to be bothering the babies.
                                                   
                                                  My five year old daughter is thrilled, she took a note to her teacher this morning asking if they wanted a few of the babies for the classroom in a few weeks when they get big enough. 
                                                   
                                                   Erin
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                                                  Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                   
                                                  Date: 02/02/04 11:50:16
                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] we've got babies!
                                                   
                                                   
                                                   Hi Erin,
                                                   
                                                    Congrats!!  Isn't it exciting?? No matter how many times my moms have babies I am always just as excited.
                                                   
                                                  You didn't mention what kind of fish had the babies. 
                                                  ____________________________________________________
                                                    IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 651 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/2/2004
                                                  Subject: Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                  Okay, we bought the 3 Marigold Variatus Platys yesterday and put them into
                                                  the tank with the 4 tetras. I noticed that one of them was peeking out from
                                                  inside one of the holes in the rock and then couldn't find it at all. I fed
                                                  a little since the tetras and other 2 platys were pathetically begging at
                                                  the front of the aquarium. That did bring out the other from wherever it
                                                  was hiding, but it didn't eat. Food was gone by then and I'm afraid I'm
                                                  overfeeding as it is. It's just kind of hovering within one of the plants.
                                                  Just moving it's tail back and forth enough to stay in that exact spot. All
                                                  the rest are swimming all over the tank. Any thoughts? I'm going to go
                                                  test the water right now.

                                                  Mary

                                                  PS I did buy a couple of meds to have on hand but didn't put any in because
                                                  I want this tank to cycle and didn't want to put unnecessary chemicals in.
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 652 From: Chris Date: 2/2/2004
                                                  Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                  OK- Don't panic. Don't feed the fish any more than you have to for a
                                                  start- the little guys have to get used to your feeding routine. I
                                                  had the exact same thing happen with a zebra danio- he just didn't
                                                  want to be seen! I think you should give it a couple of days and wait
                                                  until they adjust to their new environment. If it is still acting
                                                  weird, then start checking out the water and stuff. It is good to
                                                  have meds on hand- but I personally don't use then unless I
                                                  absolutely have to. All in all- I think the little guy is just
                                                  feeling a bit sorry for itself. Keep your eye on him though.
                                                  Keep us informed
                                                  Chris

                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mary
                                                  Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@s...> wrote:
                                                  > Okay, we bought the 3 Marigold Variatus Platys yesterday and put
                                                  them into
                                                  > the tank with the 4 tetras. I noticed that one of them was peeking
                                                  out from
                                                  > inside one of the holes in the rock and then couldn't find it at
                                                  all. I fed
                                                  > a little since the tetras and other 2 platys were pathetically
                                                  begging at
                                                  > the front of the aquarium. That did bring out the other from
                                                  wherever it
                                                  > was hiding, but it didn't eat. Food was gone by then and I'm
                                                  afraid I'm
                                                  > overfeeding as it is. It's just kind of hovering within one of the
                                                  plants.
                                                  > Just moving it's tail back and forth enough to stay in that exact
                                                  spot. All
                                                  > the rest are swimming all over the tank. Any thoughts? I'm going
                                                  to go
                                                  > test the water right now.
                                                  >
                                                  > Mary
                                                  >
                                                  > PS I did buy a couple of meds to have on hand but didn't put any
                                                  in because
                                                  > I want this tank to cycle and didn't want to put unnecessary
                                                  chemicals in.
                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 653 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/3/2004
                                                  Subject: 20Gal Breeding Tank - Ur opinion(s) & comment(s) !
                                                  Hi,

                                                  I had/have a 20gal tank with gravel, plants and fishes
                                                  running for more than a month. I had my coy angles in
                                                  there and where they laid eggs and i had free swimming
                                                  frys in there. But the count went on diminishing due
                                                  to the frys getting lost between the plants and also
                                                  getting stuck in the gravel, which were more like
                                                  marble chips..I managed to save about 15 frys and have
                                                  them in a 5gal fry tank with sponge filter.

                                                  I moved my angels back to my 55gal community tank,
                                                  where i have my other angles as well.

                                                  My question is, I have removed all the plants, gravel
                                                  cleaned the 20gal tank and filled in with 50% tap
                                                  water ( treated for chlorine and added Tetra aquasafe
                                                  )and 50% from my community tank. This was done 3 days
                                                  back. But yesterday evening i saw some small worm like
                                                  creatures in it. very minute, thin like a silk thread,
                                                  around 1" in length.(Today morning i did a 25% water
                                                  change and added fresh water.)Apart from the filter
                                                  which stays on the top of the tank i have put in a
                                                  sponge filter from my 55gal tank. What are these
                                                  worms, can anybody please advise me.

                                                  I have not cleaned or changed the filter material, can
                                                  i put my coy angels back into this 20gal tank ??

                                                  What precautions should i take like water changes and
                                                  for how long ? I need to put my coy angles back in
                                                  there cause they are ready for their next spawn and my
                                                  Male angle has become very aggressive and is almost
                                                  ripping apart my other 2 angles fins...

                                                  Please advise most urgently...

                                                  1. What are these small while little worms, how do i
                                                  get rid of them if necessary.
                                                  2.Is it safe to put my coy angels back in the 20gal
                                                  tank.
                                                  3.What precautions should i take ??

                                                  Appreciate any help, suggestions and comments...SuNnY
                                                  !!



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                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 654 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/3/2004
                                                  Subject: Re: BROWN DUST/HUSK LIKE POWDER
                                                  hi Chris,

                                                  I cleaned the hose/pipes on sunday and there
                                                  definitely is big improvement in the dust..

                                                  This weekend am planning to clean the filter and next
                                                  week the other eheim.

                                                  So i think as u had mentioned it was from the non
                                                  cleaning of the filter pipes.

                                                  Thanks for ur help.......SuNnY !


                                                  --- Chris <kava_man_spr@...> wrote:
                                                  > Hey Sunny
                                                  >
                                                  > You can even just soak the pipes in VERY hot water
                                                  > for about 15 mins
                                                  > and then rinse through with cold water. If your
                                                  > tubes a really
                                                  > grubby, get the long cleaning brush.
                                                  > Good luck!
                                                  >
                                                  > Chris
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In
                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                  > sunil kamath
                                                  > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                  > > hey chris,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I sat to clean yesterday but then realised i dont
                                                  > have anything
                                                  > that long to clean the pipes How do u clean the
                                                  > pipes tubes that
                                                  > looong
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Pls advise....since its a weekend my grey cells
                                                  > are not working
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ....SuNnY !
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- Chris <kava_man_spr@y...> wrote:
                                                  > > > How did it go after you cleaned the pipes?
                                                  > > > Let me know :)
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Chris
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In
                                                  > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                  > > > sunil kamath
                                                  > > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                  > > > > hi Chris,
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > I think i know the culprit.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > You have rightly mentioned i think its from
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > pipe.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > I have this setup running since Mar.,2003
                                                  > almost a
                                                  > > > year now.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > And whenever i clean the filter spogne and
                                                  > restart
                                                  > > > the filter i
                                                  > > > see a cloud of debris comming..out of the
                                                  > tube...and
                                                  > > > it never struck
                                                  > > > to me that it might be from the pipes
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Thanks for your suggestion will do it today
                                                  > > > itself...thanks a
                                                  > > > lot....SuNnY !
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- Chris <kava_man_spr@y...> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > Hi Sunny
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > I once had a similar build up in a temperate
                                                  >
                                                  > > > tank
                                                  > > > > > set up with an
                                                  > > > > > external fluval filter. I discovered it was
                                                  > > > caused
                                                  > > > > > by a build up of
                                                  > > > > > debris in the pipes between the filter and
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > tank.
                                                  > > > > > Ever since then,
                                                  > > > > > I have cleaned the pipes once a month and
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > > > problem hasn't come
                                                  > > > > > back. How long have you had the set up? How
                                                  > long
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > > > have you had the
                                                  > > > > > problem?
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Hope its some help to you
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > C
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > --- In
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                  > > > > > sunil kamath
                                                  > > > > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > Hi,
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Theres some dust/husk like powder
                                                  > (brownish in
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > > > colour
                                                  > > > > > > ) on the leaves of my amazon as well as
                                                  > > > anubias
                                                  > > > > > > plants. They also get accumulated on the
                                                  > > > driftwood
                                                  > > > > > i
                                                  > > > > > > have in my tank.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Its a 55gal planted community tank with
                                                  > Eheim
                                                  > > > > > filter.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Can anybody suggest What this is and how
                                                  > can i
                                                  > > > get
                                                  > > > > > rid
                                                  > > > > > > of it ??
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > I feed my fishes tetra flakes, tetra
                                                  > plankton
                                                  > > > and
                                                  > > > > > > dried beef liver ( i guess ) made by my
                                                  > LFS,
                                                  > > > apart
                                                  > > > > > > from blood worms.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Any guidance will highly be
                                                  > > > appreciated...SuNnY !
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > __________________________________
                                                  > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                  > > > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site
                                                  > building
                                                  > > > tool.
                                                  > > > > > Try it!
                                                  > > > > > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > ---------------------------------
                                                  > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                  > > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building
                                                  > tool.
                                                  > > > Try it!
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ---------------------------------
                                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                  > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool.
                                                  > Try it!
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  __________________________________
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                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 655 From: Short Jonathan Date: 2/3/2004
                                                  Subject: (no subject)
                                                  Everynow and then I tend to sculpt and although most of it ends up in the
                                                  Bin some of it isn't bad (if I do say so myself lol)
                                                  It's just your average Clay, nothing special about it and I don't varnish
                                                  them or anything.
                                                  I wondered if it would be safe to place in the tank with the Fish.
                                                  I do already have a Bridge in there made out of clay which is fine, but
                                                  was'nt sure if it had been treated or anything.
                                                  Any info would be great.
                                                  CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR BABIES ERIN :o)


                                                  Jonny Short
                                                  Churchill
                                                  Avalon Court
                                                  Nottingham Retainers
                                                  3rd Floor
                                                  <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...




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                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 656 From: Sarah Date: 2/3/2004
                                                  Subject: Re: we've got babies!
                                                  Attachments :
                                                    Congrats on the babies Erin, Aint it just lovely when that happens  
                                                     
                                                    Regards
                                                     
                                                    Sarah & Tony
                                                     
                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                     
                                                    Date: 02/02/2004 21:22:08
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] we've got babies!
                                                     
                                                     
                                                    Kelly ... I'm guessing one of the Mollies had the babies. They were sneaky about it LOL. We had one light molly that had spent most of yesterday hovering near the heater, only occasionally venturing out of that area to eat. She is hanging out below the breeder box now, maybe she had the babies? They look a little smaller than the molly fry we saw at the pet store last time we went, so that is what I am guessing. They are different color patterns, and hubby has already said that he wants to keep a couple of the fry when they get bigger. (We're even thinking of getting another tank, and just keeping whatever ones that don't get adopted. *grin*)
                                                     
                                                    Current count of fry in the breeder box is 15, and there is at least ONE that is eluding us. Every time we think we've got them all separated from the bigger fish, we see one hanging out by a plant, or swimming under some gravel, or darting under the log. They're quick, and so far have proven to be really adept at hiding. Oddly, despite what I've read about having to protect fry from older fish, none of the others seem to be bothering the babies.
                                                     
                                                    My five year old daughter is thrilled, she took a note to her teacher this morning asking if they wanted a few of the babies for the classroom in a few weeks when they get big enough. 
                                                     
                                                     Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                     
                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                     
                                                    Date: 02/02/04 11:50:16
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] we've got babies!
                                                     
                                                     
                                                     Hi Erin,
                                                     
                                                      Congrats!!  Isn't it exciting?? No matter how many times my moms have babies I am always just as excited.
                                                     
                                                    You didn't mention what kind of fish had the babies. 
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 657 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/3/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Help ASAP with new fish? This morning it has moved.  Still hiding.  I fed them and it finally came out to eat what had fallen.  Definitely not moving like everyone else.  Will keep watching it.  Should I call the place to let them know.  Bought on Sunday.  Has a 7 day guarantee.

                                                    Mary

                                                    From: "Chris" <kava_man_spr@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 05:46:06 -0000
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Help ASAP with new fish?


                                                    OK- Don't panic. Don't feed the fish any more than you have to for a
                                                    start- the little guys have to get used to your feeding routine. I
                                                    had the exact same thing happen with a zebra danio- he just didn't
                                                    want to be seen! I think you should give it a couple of days and wait
                                                    until they adjust to their new environment. If it is still acting
                                                    weird, then start checking out the water and stuff. It is good to
                                                    have meds on hand- but I personally don't use then unless I
                                                    absolutely have to. All in all- I think the little guy is just
                                                    feeling a bit sorry for itself. Keep your eye on him though.
                                                    Keep us informed
                                                    Chris

                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mary
                                                    Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@s...> wrote:
                                                    > Okay, we bought the 3 Marigold Variatus Platys yesterday and put
                                                    them into
                                                    > the tank with the 4 tetras.  I noticed that one of them was peeking
                                                    out from
                                                    > inside one of the holes in the rock and then couldn't find it at
                                                    all.  I fed
                                                    > a little since the tetras and other 2 platys were pathetically
                                                    begging at
                                                    > the front of the aquarium.  That did bring out the other from
                                                    wherever it
                                                    > was hiding, but it didn't eat.  Food was gone by then and I'm
                                                    afraid I'm
                                                    > overfeeding as it is.  It's just kind of hovering within one of the
                                                    plants.
                                                    > Just moving it's tail back and forth enough to stay in that exact
                                                    spot.  All
                                                    > the rest are swimming all over the tank.  Any thoughts?  I'm going
                                                    to go
                                                    > test the water right now.
                                                    >
                                                    > Mary
                                                    >
                                                    > PS  I did buy a couple of meds to have on hand but didn't put any
                                                    in because
                                                    > I want this tank to cycle and didn't want to put unnecessary
                                                    chemicals in.





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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 658 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/3/2004
                                                    Subject: Re:
                                                    Thanks for the congrats!

                                                    About the clay ... as far as putting it into the tank goes, I think it
                                                    depends on whether the clay has been fired in a kiln, or just hardened in
                                                    the air. I *think* that if it just air-dried, it might get soft and start
                                                    degrading in the water, but I'm not sure. Also, you might want to think
                                                    about coating it with something before putting it into the tank. You know
                                                    how you can buy ornaments for the tank, and some are more than likely made
                                                    of clay, but they appear to be glazed and fired in a kiln. So, glazing might
                                                    be a good idea for that.

                                                    Hope you can get some good help on this one, I thought I'd offer my two
                                                    cents. (as little info as I can give you)

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
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                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                    com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/03/04 08:15:42
                                                    To: 'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'
                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]


                                                    It's just your average Clay, nothing special about it and I don't varnish
                                                    them or anything.
                                                    I wondered if it would be safe to place in the tank with the Fish.
                                                    **snip**
                                                    CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR BABIES ERIN :o)
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 659 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/3/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    *blinks* Platys are livebearers (like Mollies and guppies) ... the one platy
                                                    s behaviour sounds like the behaviour of my lightest colored Mollie, and we
                                                    think that is the mommy of all of our babies!

                                                    I've read that livebearers tend to get really shy about the time they are
                                                    due to have babies. They also don't eat. A sign that I should have picked up
                                                    on, but didn't until the babies were all over the place. LOL

                                                    Do you by chance have a breeder box or something similar? (What we ended up
                                                    getting is a plastic box that floats at the top of the tank, it has a grate
                                                    at the bottom for the fry to fall into so that they can't get eaten, and it
                                                    even has a piece that you can use if you have TWO pregnant fish. It cost us
                                                    about $5.) If so you might want to go ahead and put the one platy that keeps
                                                    hiding and isn't eating in there for a couple of days. If she doesn't drop
                                                    babies, then you didn't hurt anything by having her separated from the
                                                    others. If she DOES, then you won't have to spend an entire day trying to
                                                    catch babies like I did yesterday. *grin* Once she's done having babies, you
                                                    can either leave her in there for a day or two to recover, or you can net
                                                    her back into the tank with the others right away. Since my momma fish was
                                                    never separated to begin with, and seems to be acting fine now, I don't see
                                                    any harm in putting the momma back into the tank after she's done giving
                                                    birth.

                                                    Good luck!

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                    com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/02/04 22:57:23
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?

                                                    Okay, we bought the 3 Marigold Variatus Platys yesterday and put them into
                                                    the tank with the 4 tetras. I noticed that one of them was peeking out from
                                                    inside one of the holes in the rock and then couldn't find it at all. I fed
                                                    a little since the tetras and other 2 platys were pathetically begging at
                                                    the front of the aquarium. That did bring out the other from wherever it
                                                    was hiding, but it didn't eat. Food was gone by then and I'm afraid I'm
                                                    overfeeding as it is. It's just kind of hovering within one of the plants.
                                                    Just moving it's tail back and forth enough to stay in that exact spot. All
                                                    the rest are swimming all over the tank. Any thoughts? I'm going to go
                                                    test the water right now.

                                                    Mary

                                                    PS I did buy a couple of meds to have on hand but didn't put any in because
                                                    I want this tank to cycle and didn't want to put unnecessary chemicals in.



                                                    Yahoo! Groups Links

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                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 660 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/3/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish? Wouldn't it be fat?  Of the fish I got, one is almost all yellow whereas the other two are multi toned.  I expected that the multi toned ones were males?  If so, definitely not pregnant.  One of the multi toned ones is large compared to the other one that is hiding and the one that is mostly yellow.  They are relatively the same size.

                                                    From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 07:17:34 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                    To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?


                                                    *blinks* Platys are livebearers (like Mollies and guppies) ... the one platy
                                                    s behaviour sounds like the behaviour of my lightest colored Mollie, and we
                                                    think that is the mommy of all of our babies!

                                                    I've read that livebearers tend to get really shy about the time they are
                                                    due to have babies. They also don't eat. A sign that I should have picked up
                                                    on, but didn't until the babies were all over the place. LOL

                                                    Do you by chance have a breeder box or something similar? (What we ended up
                                                    getting is a plastic box that floats at the top of the tank, it has a grate
                                                    at the bottom for the fry to fall into so that they can't get eaten, and it
                                                    even has a piece that you can use if you have TWO pregnant fish. It cost us
                                                    about $5.) If so you might want to go ahead and put the one platy that keeps
                                                    hiding and isn't eating in there for a couple of days. If she doesn't drop
                                                    babies, then you didn't hurt anything by having her separated from the
                                                    others. If she DOES, then you won't have to spend an entire day trying to
                                                    catch babies like I did yesterday. *grin* Once she's done having babies, you
                                                    can either leave her in there for a day or two to recover, or you can net
                                                    her back into the tank with the others right away. Since my momma fish was
                                                    never separated to begin with, and seems to be acting fine now, I don't see
                                                    any harm in putting the momma back into the tank after she's done giving
                                                    birth.

                                                    Good luck!

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                    com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/02/04 22:57:23
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?

                                                    Okay, we bought the 3 Marigold Variatus Platys yesterday and put them into
                                                    the tank with the 4 tetras. I noticed that one of them was peeking out from
                                                    inside one of the holes in the rock and then couldn't find it at all. I fed
                                                    a little since the tetras and other 2 platys were pathetically begging at
                                                    the front of the aquarium. That did bring out the other from wherever it
                                                    was hiding, but it didn't eat. Food was gone by then and I'm afraid I'm
                                                    overfeeding as it is. It's just kind of hovering within one of the plants.
                                                    Just moving it's tail back and forth enough to stay in that exact spot. All
                                                    the rest are swimming all over the tank. Any thoughts? I'm going to go
                                                    test the water right now.

                                                    Mary

                                                    PS I did buy a couple of meds to have on hand but didn't put any in because
                                                    I want this tank to cycle and didn't want to put unnecessary chemicals in.



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                                                    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

                                                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                    FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 661 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 2/3/2004
                                                    Subject: the first meeting of the Northeast Philadelphia Aquarium Society, 2
                                                    Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                    the first meeting of the Northeast Philadelphia Aquarium Society

                                                    Tuesday February 3, 2004
                                                    8:00 pm - 9:30 pm
                                                    This event does not repeat.

                                                    Event Location: see my web site
                                                    Notes:
                                                    our very first meeting and member sign up, if you live in philly and would like to come send me an rsvp by 01/28/04

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                                                    Send a Yahoo! Greeting.
                                                    Birthday Reminders
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 662 From: Chris Date: 2/3/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    Erin- you are officially a legend! I did some research on it last
                                                    night and it sounds like your theory is right!
                                                    I think Mary is gonna be a grandmother!
                                                    YAY!
                                                    Chris

                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                    Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@c...> wrote:
                                                    > *blinks* Platys are livebearers (like Mollies and guppies) ... the
                                                    one platy
                                                    > s behaviour sounds like the behaviour of my lightest colored
                                                    Mollie, and we
                                                    > think that is the mommy of all of our babies!
                                                    >
                                                    > I've read that livebearers tend to get really shy about the time
                                                    they are
                                                    > due to have babies. They also don't eat. A sign that I should have
                                                    picked up
                                                    > on, but didn't until the babies were all over the place. LOL
                                                    >
                                                    > Do you by chance have a breeder box or something similar? (What we
                                                    ended up
                                                    > getting is a plastic box that floats at the top of the tank, it has
                                                    a grate
                                                    > at the bottom for the fry to fall into so that they can't get
                                                    eaten, and it
                                                    > even has a piece that you can use if you have TWO pregnant fish. It
                                                    cost us
                                                    > about $5.) If so you might want to go ahead and put the one platy
                                                    that keeps
                                                    > hiding and isn't eating in there for a couple of days. If she
                                                    doesn't drop
                                                    > babies, then you didn't hurt anything by having her separated from
                                                    the
                                                    > others. If she DOES, then you won't have to spend an entire day
                                                    trying to
                                                    > catch babies like I did yesterday. *grin* Once she's done having
                                                    babies, you
                                                    > can either leave her in there for a day or two to recover, or you
                                                    can net
                                                    > her back into the tank with the others right away. Since my momma
                                                    fish was
                                                    > never separated to begin with, and seems to be acting fine now, I
                                                    don't see
                                                    > any harm in putting the momma back into the tank after she's done
                                                    giving
                                                    > birth.
                                                    >
                                                    > Good luck!
                                                    >
                                                    > Erin
                                                    > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@a...
                                                    > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                    >
                                                    > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                                    http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                    > com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    > -------Original Message-------
                                                    >
                                                    > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: 02/02/04 22:57:23
                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    >
                                                    > Okay, we bought the 3 Marigold Variatus Platys yesterday and put
                                                    them into
                                                    > the tank with the 4 tetras. I noticed that one of them was peeking
                                                    out from
                                                    > inside one of the holes in the rock and then couldn't find it at
                                                    all. I fed
                                                    > a little since the tetras and other 2 platys were pathetically
                                                    begging at
                                                    > the front of the aquarium. That did bring out the other from
                                                    wherever it
                                                    > was hiding, but it didn't eat. Food was gone by then and I'm afraid
                                                    I'm
                                                    > overfeeding as it is. It's just kind of hovering within one of the
                                                    plants.
                                                    > Just moving it's tail back and forth enough to stay in that exact
                                                    spot. All
                                                    > the rest are swimming all over the tank. Any thoughts? I'm going to
                                                    go
                                                    > test the water right now.
                                                    >
                                                    > Mary
                                                    >
                                                    > PS I did buy a couple of meds to have on hand but didn't put any in
                                                    because
                                                    > I want this tank to cycle and didn't want to put unnecessary
                                                    chemicals in.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 663 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/3/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    Not necessarily, because I didn't realize any of my three Mollie females
                                                    were pregnant until there were babies swimming around. It takes practice to
                                                    spot a pregnant fish. (heh heh apparently I don't have that "eye" yet ...
                                                    even though my lightest colored fish appeared to be the mom, there was no
                                                    visible dark "gravid" spot on any of the females which I had been expecting
                                                    to see.)

                                                    Coloring is NOT an indication of gender. The ONLY accurate indication of
                                                    gender is the lower fins. (under the belly) Males have a "fin" that is
                                                    slender and can bend in any direction. They usually keep their lower fins
                                                    close to their bodies, while females will have their lower fins visible most
                                                    of the time. On female platys you will see two fins on their bellies, while
                                                    on the male it appears there is only one unless he is chasing a female
                                                    around and showing it off. :) The only reason I know this is because when we
                                                    bought the two other Mollies and the three platys, the kind lady at petsmart
                                                    showed us the difference.

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
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                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                    com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/03/04 15:06:08
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?

                                                    Wouldn't it be fat? Of the fish I got, one is almost all yellow whereas the
                                                    other two are multi toned. I expected that the multi toned ones were males?
                                                    If so, definitely not pregnant. One of the multi toned ones is large
                                                    compared to the other one that is hiding and the one that is mostly yellow.
                                                    They are relatively the same size.
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 664 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    ROFLMAO ... Chris, I'm no expert or legend. I think we all learn from trial
                                                    and error. Livebearers and their breeding habits are still really fresh in
                                                    my mind. As it is, I've got about 20 Mollies that I've got to figure out
                                                    what I'm going to do with as they get bigger, and last night I noticed that
                                                    one of the platys looks pregnant! I think I'll be getting another tank today
                                                    so that the breeder box will be empty for the platy...

                                                    Erin
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                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/04/04 01:53:41
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Help ASAP with new fish?

                                                    Erin- you are officially a legend! I did some research on it last
                                                    night and it sounds like your theory is right!
                                                    I think Mary is gonna be a grandmother!
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 665 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish? Getting more confused
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?  Getting more confused Okay, now I'm really confused.  The two really colorful ones do keep their lower fins close to the body, but they appear to have two, one on each side.  They also appear to have a small short solid stick looking something in that area of the fins.  The one that is mostly yellow, appears to have one fin, but keeps it fanned rather than tucking it up.  So what is what?  I'll try to get a closeup picture, but haven't been very successful so far.  The little one that is colorful didn't even eat anything just now.  Just swam a little and then hovered in the plants.  I watched closely.  Food would go right by and it wouldn't even try to get it.

                                                    Mary

                                                    From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 23:18:56 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                    To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?


                                                    Not necessarily, because I didn't realize any of my three Mollie females
                                                    were pregnant until there were babies swimming around. It takes practice to
                                                    spot a pregnant fish. (heh heh apparently I don't have that "eye" yet ...
                                                    even though my lightest colored fish appeared to be the mom, there was no
                                                    visible dark "gravid" spot on any of the females which I had been expecting
                                                    to see.)

                                                    Coloring is NOT an indication of gender. The ONLY accurate indication of
                                                    gender is the lower fins. (under the belly) Males have a "fin" that is
                                                    slender and can bend in any direction. They usually keep their lower fins
                                                    close to their bodies, while females will have their lower fins visible most
                                                    of the time. On female platys you will see two fins on their bellies, while
                                                    on the male it appears there is only one unless he is chasing a female
                                                    around and showing it off. :) The only reason I know this is because when we
                                                    bought the two other Mollies and the three platys, the kind lady at petsmart
                                                    showed us the difference.

                                                    Erin
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 666 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Help ASAP with new fish? Getting more confused
                                                    I'm guessing that the mostly yellow one is female. Hard to say by not seeing
                                                    them, but if the other two have something that looks like a stick, as you
                                                    describe it, they would be male.

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                    com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/04/04 09:14:47
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    Getting more confused

                                                    Okay, now I'm really confused. The two really colorful ones do keep their lower fins close to the body, but they appear to have two, one on each side. They also appear to have a small short solid stick looking something in that area of the fins. The one that is mostly yellow, appears to have one fin, but keeps it fanned rather than tucking it up. So what is what?
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 667 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    More new fish and now I'm losing my mind I think you are right.  Okay, I took my water to get tested and the guy said the tank has probably cycled.  So, even though I have a little male that isn't doing well, I got a few more.  Not from the fish place because they don't have a great variety of freshwater, but from PetCo.  I have the 3 yellow platys and 2 blue platys (1 is a large female with a very prominent gravid spot) in the bag, floating them.  

                                                    When I went to put the bag in the tank, I noticed something floating in it.  Looks like a hair?  Or a worm?  Brown, thin.  Not really moving, but now I'm freaked that I've bought a wormy fish and I'm getting ready to put in with my others.  What the heck am I doing!?  I love to watch them, but know nothing about them.

                                                    Do you think it's a worm?  Maybe an inch or so long.  Thin like a piece of hair.

                                                    Mary

                                                    From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:10:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                    To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish? Getting more confused


                                                    I'm guessing that the mostly yellow one is female. Hard to say by not seeing
                                                    them, but if the other two have something that looks like a stick, as you
                                                    describe it, they would be male.

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                    com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/04/04 09:14:47
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    Getting more confused

                                                    Okay, now I'm really confused. The two really colorful ones do keep their lower fins close to the body, but they appear to have two, one on each side. They also appear to have a small short solid stick looking something in that area of the fins. The one that is mostly yellow, appears to have one fin, but keeps it fanned rather than tucking it up. So what is what?


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                                                    • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 668 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More new fish and now I'm losing my mind Well, I had to get them out of the bag before the died from lack of oxygen, so I did.  The small, non pregnant blue platy appears to have hair coming out of him?  Only see it because it catches the light.  Worm?  Crud!  Is the colloidal silver they've been talking about for worms?  I just got the tank cycled, I guess.   My luck I'll have to treat the tank and redo the cycling all over again.

                                                    Thanks again.

                                                    Mary

                                                    From: "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:59:26 -0600
                                                    To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More new fish and now I'm losing my mind


                                                    I think you are right.  Okay, I took my water to get tested and the guy said the tank has probably cycled.  So, even though I have a little male that isn't doing well, I got a few more.  Not from the fish place because they don't have a great variety of freshwater, but from PetCo.  I have the 3 yellow platys and 2 blue platys (1 is a large female with a very prominent gravid spot) in the bag, floating them.  

                                                    When I went to put the bag in the tank, I noticed something floating in it.  Looks like a hair?  Or a worm?  Brown, thin.  Not really moving, but now I'm freaked that I've bought a wormy fish and I'm getting ready to put in with my others.  What the heck am I doing!?  I love to watch them, but know nothing about them.

                                                    Do you think it's a worm?  Maybe an inch or so long.  Thin like a piece of hair.

                                                    Mary

                                                    From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:10:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                    To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish? Getting more confused


                                                    I'm guessing that the mostly yellow one is female. Hard to say by not seeing
                                                    them, but if the other two have something that looks like a stick, as you
                                                    describe it, they would be male.

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                    com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/04/04 09:14:47
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help ASAP with new fish?
                                                    Getting more confused

                                                    Okay, now I'm really confused. The two really colorful ones do keep their lower fins close to the body, but they appear to have two, one on each side. They also appear to have a small short solid stick looking something in that area of the fins. The one that is mostly yellow, appears to have one fin, but keeps it fanned rather than tucking it up. So what is what?


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                                                    • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 669 From: snowdrift52003 Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mary
                                                    Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@s...> wrote:

                                                    > When I went to put the bag in the tank, I noticed something
                                                    floating in it.
                                                    > Looks like a hair? Or a worm? Brown, thin. Not really moving,

                                                    That's platy poop. I'm sure of it.

                                                    Sierra
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 670 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    you say its brown and thin, but if its white and thin
                                                    about 1" long and many in number then they might be
                                                    planaria worms. most likely it came from your sponge
                                                    filter. they're harmless and the smaller fishes will
                                                    eat them...DuMmS !

                                                    --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                    > I think you are right. Okay, I took my water to get
                                                    > tested and the guy said
                                                    > the tank has probably cycled. So, even though I
                                                    > have a little male that
                                                    > isn't doing well, I got a few more. Not from the
                                                    > fish place because they
                                                    > don't have a great variety of freshwater, but from
                                                    > PetCo. I have the 3
                                                    > yellow platys and 2 blue platys (1 is a large female
                                                    > with a very prominent
                                                    > gravid spot) in the bag, floating them.
                                                    >
                                                    > When I went to put the bag in the tank, I noticed
                                                    > something floating in it.
                                                    > Looks like a hair? Or a worm? Brown, thin. Not
                                                    > really moving, but now I'm
                                                    > freaked that I've bought a wormy fish and I'm
                                                    > getting ready to put in with
                                                    > my others. What the heck am I doing!? I love to
                                                    > watch them, but know
                                                    > nothing about them.
                                                    >
                                                    > Do you think it's a worm? Maybe an inch or so long.
                                                    > Thin like a piece of
                                                    > hair.
                                                    >
                                                    > Mary
                                                    >
                                                    > From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                    > Reply-To:
                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:10:57 -0500 (Eastern
                                                    > Standard Time)
                                                    > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help
                                                    > ASAP with new fish?
                                                    > Getting more confused
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > I'm guessing that the mostly yellow one is female.
                                                    > Hard to say by not seeing
                                                    > them, but if the other two have something that looks
                                                    > like a stick, as you
                                                    > describe it, they would be male.
                                                    >
                                                    > Erin
                                                    > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                    >
                                                    > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                                    > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site
                                                    > http://www.celticparents
                                                    > com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    > -------Original Message-------
                                                    >
                                                    > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: 02/04/04 09:14:47
                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help
                                                    > ASAP with new fish?
                                                    > Getting more confused
                                                    >
                                                    > Okay, now I'm really confused. The two really
                                                    > colorful ones do keep their
                                                    > lower fins close to the body, but they appear to
                                                    > have two, one on each side.
                                                    > They also appear to have a small short solid stick
                                                    > looking something in that
                                                    > area of the fins. The one that is mostly yellow,
                                                    > appears to have one fin,
                                                    > but keeps it fanned rather than tucking it up. So
                                                    > what is what?
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 671 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    Hi,
                                                    Long and/or long-pale fecal casts are indications of (probably among other things) bacterial infections. Been a while since I'd seen them, after reading about them, but I remember long-pale, relating to bacterial infections, and 'long' is stuck in my memory too, but I can't seem to recall why. I don't personally remember long-fecal-casts as indicating anything but anomaly.
                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 672 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    Hi,
                                                    Was there a sick fish in the bag with the poop/worm/hair? If it's a hair, you're not likely to pull it apart with tweezers. If a sick fish is involved with something that looks like a worm, it's not wize to think it's something harmless like planaria. A rotting/rotten worm, I don't know the properties, but it COULD have the same consistancy as feces, and be somewhat crumbly.
                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 673 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind Okay, I treated with Clout and when I starting looking at these D**B fish, 3 of them now look like there are worms coming out of them.  Clay color.  .5-1 inch.  Fishies are swimming around like they don't realize they've got something stuck to them.  Maybe this is the way they produce feces?  They swim around for like 30 minutes with it hanging off!  Sure does take them a long time to go potty!  LOL  I don't know if I should take out the tablets before they dissolve completely or just leave it.  Don't know if Clout does bacterial or not.  Maybe I'm just going overboard and I should just watch the fishies for a while?  Someone else was saying this is normal for platys.  I know I haven't seen the tetras doing it and hadn't seen the platys I bought Sunday doing it, but of course, today I saw one of them after the initial new fish.  

                                                    Maybe I need to go to bed.

                                                    Mary

                                                    From: j.pascavage@...
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 01:42:19 +0000
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind


                                                    Hi,
                                                     Long and/or long-pale fecal casts are indications of (probably among other things) bacterial infections. Been a while since I'd seen them, after reading about them, but I remember long-pale, relating to bacterial infections, and 'long' is stuck in my memory too, but I can't seem to recall why. I don't personally remember long-fecal-casts as indicating anything but anomaly.
                                                                        Joe Pascavage


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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 674 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    HI Mary,

                                                    if its clay or brownish black colour then its fish
                                                    poop. I had read somebody telling their platys eat
                                                    like pigs.. So dont worry have a good night sleep.

                                                    And if they poop too much then u better do water
                                                    changed regularly....SuNnY !

                                                    --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                    > Okay, I treated with Clout and when I starting
                                                    > looking at these D**B fish, 3
                                                    > of them now look like there are worms coming out of
                                                    > them. Clay color. .5-1
                                                    > inch. Fishies are swimming around like they don't
                                                    > realize they've got
                                                    > something stuck to them. Maybe this is the way they
                                                    > produce feces? They
                                                    > swim around for like 30 minutes with it hanging off!
                                                    > Sure does take them a
                                                    > long time to go potty! LOL I don't know if I
                                                    > should take out the tablets
                                                    > before they dissolve completely or just leave it.
                                                    > Don't know if Clout does
                                                    > bacterial or not. Maybe I'm just going overboard
                                                    > and I should just watch
                                                    > the fishies for a while? Someone else was saying
                                                    > this is normal for platys.
                                                    > I know I haven't seen the tetras doing it and hadn't
                                                    > seen the platys I
                                                    > bought Sunday doing it, but of course, today I saw
                                                    > one of them after the
                                                    > initial new fish.
                                                    >
                                                    > Maybe I need to go to bed.
                                                    >
                                                    > Mary
                                                    >
                                                    > From: j.pascavage@...
                                                    > Reply-To:
                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 01:42:19 +0000
                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
                                                    > More new fish and now I'm
                                                    > losing my mind
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi,
                                                    > Long and/or long-pale fecal casts are indications
                                                    > of (probably among other
                                                    > things) bacterial infections. Been a while since I'd
                                                    > seen them, after
                                                    > reading about them, but I remember long-pale,
                                                    > relating to bacterial
                                                    > infections, and 'long' is stuck in my memory too,
                                                    > but I can't seem to recall
                                                    > why. I don't personally remember long-fecal-casts as
                                                    > indicating anything but
                                                    > anomaly.
                                                    > Joe Pascavage
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 675 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More new fish and now I'm losing my mind Unfortunately, even though I was trying to keep it in the bag, I must have captured it with the fish when I was putting them in the tank.   A couple of them have looked like a thin hair, with areas that actually are thicker and a different color.  The rest I've seen is just clay color, like a thick hair.  Fish swim around with this coming out for long periods of time.

                                                    Mary

                                                    From: j.pascavage@...
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 02:27:05 +0000
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More new fish and now I'm losing my mind


                                                    Hi,
                                                     Was there a sick fish in the bag with the poop/worm/hair? If it's a hair, you're not likely to pull it apart with tweezers. If a sick fish is involved with something that looks like a worm, it's not wize to think it's something harmless like planaria. A rotting/rotten worm, I don't know the properties, but it COULD  have the same consistancy as feces, and be somewhat crumbly.
                                                                         Joe Pascavage






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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 676 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    your fish are indeed "going potty." some fish can swim with that
                                                    attached to them all day. it's rare to see tetras with it, but their
                                                    feces are smaller and thinner and break off more easily because of the
                                                    erratic movements of the fish. don't worry about this, it's fine.
                                                    amaltha
                                                    On Feb 4, 2004, at 10:14 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                    > Okay, I treated with Clout and when I starting looking at these D**B
                                                    > fish, 3 of them now look like there are worms coming out of them.
                                                    >  Clay color.  .5-1 inch.  Fishies are swimming around like they don't
                                                    > realize they've got something stuck to them.  Maybe this is the way
                                                    > they produce feces?  They swim around for like 30 minutes with it
                                                    > hanging off!  Sure does take them a long time to go potty!  LOL  I
                                                    > don't know if I should take out the tablets before they dissolve
                                                    > completely or just leave it.  Don't know if Clout does bacterial or
                                                    > not.  Maybe I'm just going overboard and I should just watch the
                                                    > fishies for a while?  Someone else was saying this is normal for
                                                    > platys.  I know I haven't seen the tetras doing it and hadn't seen the
                                                    > platys I bought Sunday doing it, but of course, today I saw one of
                                                    > them after the initial new fish.  
                                                    >
                                                    > Maybe I need to go to bed.
                                                    >
                                                    > Mary
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > From: j.pascavage@...
                                                    > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 01:42:19 +0000
                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and
                                                    > now I'm losing my mind
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi,
                                                    >  Long and/or long-pale fecal casts are indications of (probably among
                                                    > other things) bacterial infections. Been a while since I'd seen them,
                                                    > after reading about them, but I remember long-pale, relating to
                                                    > bacterial infections, and 'long' is stuck in my memory too, but I
                                                    > can't seem to recall why. I don't personally remember long-fecal-casts
                                                    > as indicating anything but anomaly.
                                                    >                     Joe Pascavage
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 677 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    H'lo,
                                                    I had Plattys', multiplying prolifically, (which is the reason I reluctantly stopped keeping them) and would'nt say the long-fecal-casts are normal. I had'nt noticed them unless the fish were sick. You should be sure the things you notice hanging from their vents are worms. Long poop(fecal-casts) are a symptom of bacterial/infection. I don't remember much about CLOUT, but I do remember it was oriented towards parasites, I'm not sure about bacteria, and that I could never get it to dissolve to my satisfaction. It could be the CLOUT is purging (driving undesireable elements from your fish, much like an enema, I suppose)your fish, and the long stuff is fish-poo, with culprits inside the cast. (UNLESS YOU SEE THE WORM-LIKE THING ACTUALLY MOVING LIKE A WORM)
                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 678 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind Good grief.  What an idiot I am.  I've seen the tetras and some fish at the store going, so the instant I saw the long stuff that wasn't falling off, I freaked.  Oh well, something to tell my grandchildren someday.  Grandma treated the sick fishies for poo poo.  HA HA

                                                    TTYL

                                                    From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:18:47 -0500
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind


                                                    your fish are indeed "going potty." some fish can swim with that  
                                                    attached to them all day. it's rare to see tetras with it, but their  
                                                    feces are smaller and thinner and break off more easily because of the  
                                                    erratic movements of the fish. don't worry about this, it's fine.
                                                    amaltha
                                                    On Feb 4, 2004, at 10:14 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                    >  Okay, I treated with Clout and when I starting looking at these D**B  
                                                    > fish, 3 of them now look like there are worms coming out of them.  
                                                    >  Clay color.  .5-1 inch.  Fishies are swimming around like they don't  
                                                    > realize they've got something stuck to them.  Maybe this is the way  
                                                    > they produce feces?  They swim around for like 30 minutes with it  
                                                    > hanging off!  Sure does take them a long time to go potty!  LOL  I  
                                                    > don't know if I should take out the tablets before they dissolve  
                                                    > completely or just leave it.  Don't know if Clout does bacterial or  
                                                    > not.  Maybe I'm just going overboard and I should just watch the  
                                                    > fishies for a while?  Someone else was saying this is normal for  
                                                    > platys.  I know I haven't seen the tetras doing it and hadn't seen the  
                                                    > platys I bought Sunday doing it, but of course, today I saw one of  
                                                    > them after the initial new fish.  
                                                    >
                                                    >  Maybe I need to go to bed.
                                                    >
                                                    >  Mary
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > From: j.pascavage@...
                                                    > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 01:42:19 +0000
                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and  
                                                    > now I'm losing my mind
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi,
                                                    >   Long and/or long-pale fecal casts are indications of (probably among  
                                                    > other things) bacterial infections. Been a while since I'd seen them,  
                                                    > after reading about them, but I remember long-pale, relating to  
                                                    > bacterial infections, and 'long' is stuck in my memory too, but I  
                                                    > can't seem to recall why. I don't personally remember long-fecal-casts  
                                                    > as indicating anything but anomaly.
                                                    >                      Joe Pascavage
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor   ADVERTISEMENT
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 679 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    if you REALLY wanna see some poo, get a goldfish or a pleco. that's a
                                                    whole lotta mess.
                                                    amalthea
                                                    On Feb 4, 2004, at 11:10 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                    > Good grief.  What an idiot I am.  I've seen the tetras and some fish
                                                    > at the store going, so the instant I saw the long stuff that wasn't
                                                    > falling off, I freaked.  Oh well, something to tell my grandchildren
                                                    > someday.  Grandma treated the sick fishies for poo poo.  HA HA
                                                    >
                                                    > TTYL
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                    > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:18:47 -0500
                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and
                                                    > now I'm losing my mind
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > your fish are indeed "going potty." some fish can swim with that  
                                                    > attached to them all day. it's rare to see tetras with it, but their  
                                                    > feces are smaller and thinner and break off more easily because of
                                                    > the  
                                                    > erratic movements of the fish. don't worry about this, it's fine.
                                                    > amaltha
                                                    > On Feb 4, 2004, at 10:14 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > >  Okay, I treated with Clout and when I starting looking at these
                                                    > D**B  
                                                    > > fish, 3 of them now look like there are worms coming out of them.  
                                                    > >  Clay color.  .5-1 inch.  Fishies are swimming around like they
                                                    > don't  
                                                    > > realize they've got something stuck to them.  Maybe this is the way
                                                    >  
                                                    > > they produce feces?  They swim around for like 30 minutes with it  
                                                    > > hanging off!  Sure does take them a long time to go potty!  LOL  I  
                                                    > > don't know if I should take out the tablets before they dissolve  
                                                    > > completely or just leave it.  Don't know if Clout does bacterial or
                                                    >  
                                                    > > not.  Maybe I'm just going overboard and I should just watch the  
                                                    > > fishies for a while?  Someone else was saying this is normal for  
                                                    > > platys.  I know I haven't seen the tetras doing it and hadn't seen
                                                    > the  
                                                    > > platys I bought Sunday doing it, but of course, today I saw one of  
                                                    > > them after the initial new fish.  
                                                    > >
                                                    > >  Maybe I need to go to bed.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >  Mary
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > From: j.pascavage@...
                                                    > > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 01:42:19 +0000
                                                    > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and
                                                    >  
                                                    > > now I'm losing my mind
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Hi,
                                                    > >   Long and/or long-pale fecal casts are indications of (probably
                                                    > among  
                                                    > > other things) bacterial infections. Been a while since I'd seen
                                                    > them,  
                                                    > > after reading about them, but I remember long-pale, relating to  
                                                    > > bacterial infections, and 'long' is stuck in my memory too, but I  
                                                    > > can't seem to recall why. I don't personally remember
                                                    > long-fecal-casts  
                                                    > > as indicating anything but anomaly.
                                                    > >                      Joe Pascavage
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor   ADVERTISEMENT
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                    for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                    religion....
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 680 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind I didn't put the Clout in until tonight.   I just thought it was the stress of moving to a new home that was maybe making the "worms" come out.  Do you think I should treat for bacteria also or should I not mess with the tank any more than this?  I have a medication for bacteria also that I had purchased to have on hand, just in case.  Didn't think I'd use it this quickly.  

                                                    Thanks again.  I honestly can't say that they are worms.  Long feces is definitely a possibility.  

                                                    Mary

                                                    From: j.pascavage@...
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 03:52:32 +0000
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind


                                                      H'lo,
                                                        I had Plattys', multiplying prolifically, (which is the reason I reluctantly stopped keeping them) and would'nt say the long-fecal-casts are normal. I had'nt noticed them unless the fish were sick. You should be sure the things you notice hanging from their vents are worms. Long poop(fecal-casts) are a symptom of bacterial/infection. I don't remember much about CLOUT, but I do remember it was oriented towards parasites, I'm not sure about bacteria, and that I could never get it to dissolve to my satisfaction. It could be the CLOUT is purging (driving undesireable elements from your fish, much like an enema, I suppose)your fish, and the long stuff is fish-poo, with culprits inside the cast. (UNLESS YOU SEE THE WORM-LIKE THING ACTUALLY MOVING LIKE A WORM)
                                                                           Joe Pascavage




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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 681 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    It'd be nice if you had a digital camera with a macro.
                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 682 From: dolph72.geo Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: To Mary and her Platies
                                                    Basically what you have described is nothing but poo. For some
                                                    reason quite a few livebearers have these same poo issues. Its
                                                    nothing too major to be conserned about unless it happens to be a
                                                    bright reddish color. And for plecos it tends to be even worse.
                                                    As long as they were relatively active in the store they should do
                                                    the same once they are acclimated to their new environment.

                                                    Randy
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 683 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    I would'nt use anything more than you've used, since your fish seem to be normal otherwise, especially since you have CLOUT in the tank. I had Goldfish and Plattys, and if I remember correctly, while the fecal-casts would be visible, they would break in such a way that the appearance of very long casts would be seen as abnormal. I just did a quick search for long-pale fecal casts, and long fecal casts in Google, and came up with long/pale as a symptom of dropsy, which can be viral, but is seen with scales being driven apart to a point where they take on the appearance of a pine-cone, with spaces between scales, rather than laying over one another. There was reference to domestic fish carrying a symptom seen in fecal appearance, which was mucoid, but did'nt relate to your experience. If you're anything like me when I first started, you're probably too worried. As it is I have'nt had much medical trouble with my Corys lately, and I'm really quite rusty in this subject matter, and I have'nt a DVM or Phd. in Icthyology.
                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                    There's a term called 'prophylactic' treatment, which is used to mean treatment for something that's possibly not necessary, when there's a possibility of beneficial effect. A just-in-case scenario. I could'nt advise that, since I don't have the expertise, and there's the overuse of treatments, reducing the effectivness by engineering a resistance in the target animal.
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 684 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More new fish and now I'm losing my mind I've got one, but having a terrible time getting pics.  Will try tomorrow, but I definitely think this is feces.  While I was trying to take a picture of one, the "worm" fell out of another and I saw it floating in two pieces.  Obviously not a worm.  Now, they are pooping alot and very long casts?  I'll try to get a picture.

                                                    Maybe I'll have better luck at feeding time tomorrow.

                                                    TTYL
                                                    Mary

                                                    From: j.pascavage@...
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 04:23:01 +0000
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More new fish and now I'm losing my mind


                                                      It'd be nice if you had a digital camera with a macro.
                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                               




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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 685 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/4/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    that's just how the poop looks sometimes. really, it's nothing to worry
                                                    about.
                                                    amalthea
                                                    On Feb 4, 2004, at 10:17 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                    > Unfortunately, even though I was trying to keep it in the bag, I must
                                                    > have captured it with the fish when I was putting them in the tank.
                                                    >   A couple of them have looked like a thin hair, with areas that
                                                    > actually are thicker and a different color.  The rest I've seen is
                                                    > just clay color, like a thick hair.  Fish swim around with this coming
                                                    > out for long periods of time.
                                                    >
                                                    > Mary
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > From: j.pascavage@...
                                                    > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 02:27:05 +0000
                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More new fish and now
                                                    > I'm losing my mind
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi,
                                                    >  Was there a sick fish in the bag with the poop/worm/hair? If it's a
                                                    > hair, you're not likely to pull it apart with tweezers. If a sick fish
                                                    > is involved with something that looks like a worm, it's not wize to
                                                    > think it's something harmless like planaria. A rotting/rotten worm, I
                                                    > don't know the properties, but it COULD  have the same consistancy as
                                                    > feces, and be somewhat crumbly.
                                                    >                      Joe Pascavage
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    > • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                    > • • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                    > subject=Unsubscribe>
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                                                    > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                    >  
                                                    > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >  
                                                    > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                    > Service.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                    for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                    religion....
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 686 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/5/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: More new fish and now I'm losing my mind
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More new fish and now I'm losing my mind Thanks.  Still watching this little one we bought on Sunday.  Didn't eat again this morning.  Just hovered there at the top and let all the food go by.  Everyone else was more than happy to eat.  I even noticed the one we got yesterday that might be pregnant go over and kind of nudge it, like she was trying to say, eat you idiot.  


                                                    TTYL
                                                    Mary

                                                    From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 22:57:16 -0500
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] More new fish and now I'm losing my mind


                                                    that's just how the poop looks sometimes. really, it's nothing to worry  
                                                    about.
                                                    amalthea
                                                    On Feb 4, 2004, at 10:17 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                    >  Unfortunately, even though I was trying to keep it in the bag, I must  
                                                    > have captured it with the fish when I was putting them in the tank.  
                                                    >   A couple of them have looked like a thin hair, with areas that  
                                                    > actually are thicker and a different color.  The rest I've seen is  
                                                    > just clay color, like a thick hair.  Fish swim around with this coming  
                                                    > out for long periods of time.
                                                    >
                                                    >  Mary
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 687 From: Jobin Hume Date: 2/5/2004
                                                    Subject: I am so glad I'm not the only one....and a few questions
                                                    Hi all:

                                                    I am new to this list and new to fish keeping.

                                                    A - I also started last week with 3 platys and thought
                                                    they had a parasite. It didn't occur to me that fish
                                                    poop would look like that. I am so relieved that
                                                    someone else made this mistake, cause I felt like an
                                                    idiot.

                                                    B - I have a couple questions about water quality. I
                                                    have a 29 gallon tank, and when I measure with the
                                                    test kit, everything is in the normal range, but for
                                                    the last few days it has been increasingly cloudy. I
                                                    presume this is the "bacteria bloom" I have read
                                                    about, but is it OK, or should I add something to
                                                    clear it up.

                                                    C - Fish behavior. They seem to float near the top
                                                    when i get up in the morning. is this just where they
                                                    sleep? Perhaps there isn't enough oxygen? Is this
                                                    OK?

                                                    Also, they hang out near the heater a lot. The temp
                                                    of the water is about 79 degrees. Is this warm
                                                    enough?

                                                    Thanks in advance for your advice - I have learned a
                                                    lot just from reading this list for the last week.

                                                    Have a great day!

                                                    Jobin in MN
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 688 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 2/5/2004
                                                    Subject: Japanese Betta information needed
                                                    Hi all,

                                                    Over the weekend I bought a crown-tailed Japanese betta. I've got
                                                    him in a 2-gallon tank with an artificial plant and an airstone. I
                                                    debated about getting him set up with a filter as well, but since I'm
                                                    new to bettas am unsure if a filter is necessary. I am planning his
                                                    first 20% water change tomorrow and will be doing those once per
                                                    week. I am keeping his tank at 76 degrees (at 80 when his light is
                                                    on as it heats the water a little).

                                                    He is very active, eating well, and has wonderful fin color. I am
                                                    noticing that today his stomach looks a little more rounded than
                                                    usual and he's paler around that area as well. Is this something I
                                                    should be concerned about? He does not appear to feel ill, though I
                                                    have noticed that he does not like to eat the "Betta Banquet" pellets
                                                    I bought for him, but prefers smaller food bits (and if I smash
                                                    the "Betta Banquet" pellets, he will eat them too).

                                                    Any information would be helpful. Thanks!
                                                    Jen
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 689 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 2/5/2004
                                                    Subject: Japanese Betta information needed
                                                    Hi all,

                                                    Over the weekend I bought a crown-tailed Japanese betta. I've got
                                                    him in a 2-gallon tank with an artificial plant and an airstone. I
                                                    debated about getting him set up with a filter as well, but since I'm
                                                    new to bettas am unsure if a filter is necessary. I am planning his
                                                    first 20% water change tomorrow and will be doing those once per
                                                    week. I am keeping his tank at 76 degrees (at 80 when his light is
                                                    on as it heats the water a little).

                                                    He is very active, eating well, and has wonderful fin color. I am
                                                    noticing that today his stomach looks a little more rounded than
                                                    usual and he's paler around that area as well. Is this something I
                                                    should be concerned about? He does not appear to feel ill, though I
                                                    have noticed that he does not like to eat the "Betta Banquet" pellets
                                                    I bought for him, but prefers smaller food bits (and if I smash
                                                    the "Betta Banquet" pellets, he will eat them too).

                                                    Any information would be helpful. Thanks!
                                                    Jen
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 690 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/5/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: I am so glad I'm not the only one....and a few questions
                                                    HI Jobin,

                                                    Welcome to the group and the hobby...

                                                    I am also still a newbe here learning daily by reading
                                                    here and there..

                                                    As regards Cloudy water : I have read in the past and
                                                    I think it's an ammonia spike, the white tinge is a
                                                    good way to tell and the fact that the tank is 4 days
                                                    old it is expected that this happens. Ignore the
                                                    cloudiness as this will go away on it's own as the
                                                    tank completes the first stage of cycling. You biggest

                                                    concern is the health of the fish in the tank, ammonia
                                                    can hurt them but the next stage of cycling is the
                                                    nitrite spike which is far more dangerous. Ammonia and
                                                    nitrite should be monitered when cycling new tanks
                                                    with fish in them and partial water changes should
                                                    performed to keep these levels below lethal amounts.
                                                    If you change about 10-15% of the water every other
                                                    day you should be able to keep these values down to
                                                    safe levels until cycling is complete.

                                                    Regarding hanging over the top : If the fishes are
                                                    gasping for air then i think its due to less Oxygen.
                                                    Even in my tank this used to happen. But now i keep a
                                                    airstone with bubbles comming out so the fishes are
                                                    happy.

                                                    Anything else pls feel free to ask here and anybody
                                                    will help u.

                                                    Temp : I keep it around 29'C.

                                                    .....SuNnY !


                                                    --- Jobin Hume <jh789@...> wrote:
                                                    > Hi all:
                                                    >
                                                    > I am new to this list and new to fish keeping.
                                                    >
                                                    > A - I also started last week with 3 platys and
                                                    > thought
                                                    > they had a parasite. It didn't occur to me that
                                                    > fish
                                                    > poop would look like that. I am so relieved that
                                                    > someone else made this mistake, cause I felt like an
                                                    > idiot.
                                                    >
                                                    > B - I have a couple questions about water quality.
                                                    > I
                                                    > have a 29 gallon tank, and when I measure with the
                                                    > test kit, everything is in the normal range, but for
                                                    > the last few days it has been increasingly cloudy.
                                                    > I
                                                    > presume this is the "bacteria bloom" I have read
                                                    > about, but is it OK, or should I add something to
                                                    > clear it up.
                                                    >
                                                    > C - Fish behavior. They seem to float near the top
                                                    > when i get up in the morning. is this just where
                                                    > they
                                                    > sleep? Perhaps there isn't enough oxygen? Is this
                                                    > OK?
                                                    >
                                                    > Also, they hang out near the heater a lot. The temp
                                                    > of the water is about 79 degrees. Is this warm
                                                    > enough?
                                                    >
                                                    > Thanks in advance for your advice - I have learned a
                                                    > lot just from reading this list for the last week.
                                                    >
                                                    > Have a great day!
                                                    >
                                                    > Jobin in MN
                                                    >
                                                    >


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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 691 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/5/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: I am so glad I'm not the only one....and a few questions
                                                    From what I remember, gasping at the surface can mean radical change in PH, ammonia, Nitrite, or even radical temperature changes, maybe even gill-disease.. Aquatronics, and Jungle Labs have diagnostic charts that list symptoms and treatments. If I don't find them first, you can try searching for the charts on the web. If I find mine, I could scan and send, but that would entail an attachment, and Yahoo won't accept those. I don't know if putting them in files or photos is some kind of infringement or not. Ther're possibly enough for starters, considering a future in the hobby could entail starting a library on all aspects of fish-keeping.
                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 692 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/5/2004
                                                    Subject: ok, now i have a question..
                                                    has anyone here ever done a full tank replacement? that is, you have a
                                                    tank running but get a newer larger one to replace it? not just adding
                                                    another tank.
                                                    how have you gone about transferring everything from one tank to
                                                    another? it seems a daunting task and i thought i'd ask you all for
                                                    some advice.
                                                    amalthea
                                                    http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                    for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                    religion....
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 693 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/5/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: ok, now i have a question..
                                                    hi amalthea,

                                                    What about the filter ?? will u be using the current
                                                    filter to your new tank or entirely new setup ?

                                                    When i moved from a 20gal to 55gal i did the following

                                                    First week :
                                                    Set up Tank with all its accessories minus plant.
                                                    Did 50% water changes daily for one week.
                                                    Second week :
                                                    Then put plants and did aquascaping with 30% water
                                                    changes every day for one week. With small amount of
                                                    tetra flakes.
                                                    Third week :
                                                    Then put 5 leopard danios to cycle the tank for one
                                                    week.
                                                    Fourth week :
                                                    Shifted my toughest fishes like congo tetra, golden
                                                    gouramis, silver tips.
                                                    Fifth week : added my corys, clown loach, rams.

                                                    W/o any fish loss.

                                                    Hope this helps.....SuNnY !!




                                                    --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                    > has anyone here ever done a full tank replacement?
                                                    > that is, you have a
                                                    > tank running but get a newer larger one to replace
                                                    > it? not just adding
                                                    > another tank.
                                                    > how have you gone about transferring everything from
                                                    > one tank to
                                                    > another? it seems a daunting task and i thought i'd
                                                    > ask you all for
                                                    > some advice.
                                                    > amalthea
                                                    > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                    > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be
                                                    > against your
                                                    > religion....
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    __________________________________
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                                                    Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 694 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/5/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: ok, now i have a question..
                                                    well, the main problem is that the new tank will be going where the old
                                                    tank is, so it's going to have to be a fast change, if you know what i
                                                    mean. i'll be using one of the old filters along with a new canister.
                                                    the old one has two biowheels and i'd be putting in all the old decor,
                                                    driftwood and live plants, so i'll have plenty of bacteria to start,
                                                    and i'd like to put most of the old water into the new tank as well.
                                                    i'm just trying to figure out the physical logistics. both tanks will
                                                    be exceedingly heavy and i worry that the whole thing may not be worth
                                                    it...
                                                    amalthea
                                                    On Feb 6, 2004, at 2:47 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

                                                    > hi amalthea,
                                                    >
                                                    > What about the filter ?? will u be using the current
                                                    > filter to your new tank or entirely new setup ?
                                                    >
                                                    > When i moved from a 20gal to 55gal i did the following
                                                    >
                                                    > First week :
                                                    > Set up Tank with all its accessories minus plant.
                                                    > Did 50% water changes daily for one week.
                                                    > Second week :
                                                    > Then put plants and did aquascaping with 30% water
                                                    > changes every day for one week. With small amount of
                                                    > tetra flakes.
                                                    > Third week :
                                                    > Then put 5 leopard danios to cycle the tank for one
                                                    > week.
                                                    > Fourth week :
                                                    > Shifted my toughest fishes like congo tetra, golden
                                                    > gouramis, silver tips.
                                                    > Fifth week : added my corys, clown loach, rams.
                                                    >
                                                    > W/o any fish loss.
                                                    >
                                                    > Hope this helps.....SuNnY !!
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                    > > has anyone here ever done a full tank replacement?
                                                    > > that is, you have a
                                                    > > tank running but get a newer larger one to replace
                                                    > > it? not just adding
                                                    > > another tank.
                                                    > > how have you gone about transferring everything from
                                                    > > one tank to
                                                    > > another? it seems a daunting task and i thought i'd
                                                    > > ask you all for
                                                    > > some advice.
                                                    > > amalthea
                                                    > > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                    > > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be
                                                    > > against your
                                                    > > religion....
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > __________________________________
                                                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                    > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                                                    > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    >
                                                    > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                    >  
                                                    > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >  
                                                    > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                    > Service.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                    for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                    religion....
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 695 From: dolph72.geo Date: 2/6/2004
                                                    Subject: To Jobin and his platies
                                                    The cloudiness of water can be cause by a few things. It could
                                                    be from bacteria in the water. It also can be from algae starting
                                                    to grow in your tank. If you have your tank in direct sunlight or
                                                    have fluorescent lighting on for extended periods of time algae may
                                                    be the most likely cause. Also if you have changed water in your
                                                    tank recently, it may cause your water to become cloudy from the
                                                    cleaning process itself. Depending on what causes the cloudiness it
                                                    should go away soon, however if you are concerned about it you could
                                                    add some tank clear tablets you can get from most pet stores.


                                                    Platies typically are top-water fish which means they spend
                                                    most of their time in the top third of the tank, which explains why
                                                    they sleep towards the top of the water. Depending if you have live
                                                    plants and/or a bubblestone you may want to get one or the other to
                                                    help oxygenate the water. Platties temperature range is normally 72
                                                    degrees to about 79 degrees, however they can live in warmer waters
                                                    up to 84 degrees.

                                                    Hopefully this helps you in some way.

                                                    Randy
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 696 From: dolph72.geo Date: 2/6/2004
                                                    Subject: To amalthea and her new tank
                                                    I myself have never done a full tank replacement, however
                                                    everyone should be prepared to do one in case of extreme emergencies.
                                                    My plan consists of draining enough water out of the tank to
                                                    temporarily hold the fish. My plan involves a smaller hold aquarium
                                                    with a heater so I do not have to rush through my cleaning or
                                                    equipment changing. If you only have the two tanks it certainly
                                                    limits your options and you might not be able keep all of the water
                                                    in the transfer. The most important thing to remember in the change
                                                    is you should never move an aquarium that has water in it.

                                                    Hopefully this helps you in some way.

                                                    Randy
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 697 From: Jobin Hume Date: 2/6/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: To Jobin and his platies
                                                    Thanks to all who answered my questions.

                                                    I talked to the people in the local fish store and
                                                    they recommended a partial water change which has made
                                                    a huge difference. I think I was also over feeding
                                                    the fish, because there was alot in the gravel.

                                                    They aren't gasping for air, they just float "near"
                                                    the top, so I think this poster is correct.

                                                    Either way, they are really active today after the
                                                    change in water and cut back on food. I will get the
                                                    hang of this soon!

                                                    Thanks all

                                                    Jobin
                                                    --- "dolph72.geo" <dolph72@...> wrote:
                                                    > The cloudiness of water can be cause by a few
                                                    > things. It could
                                                    > be from bacteria in the water. It also can be from
                                                    > algae starting
                                                    > to grow in your tank. If you have your tank in
                                                    > direct sunlight or
                                                    > have fluorescent lighting on for extended periods of
                                                    > time algae may
                                                    > be the most likely cause. Also if you have changed
                                                    > water in your
                                                    > tank recently, it may cause your water to become
                                                    > cloudy from the
                                                    > cleaning process itself. Depending on what causes
                                                    > the cloudiness it
                                                    > should go away soon, however if you are concerned
                                                    > about it you could
                                                    > add some tank clear tablets you can get from most
                                                    > pet stores.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Platies typically are top-water fish which
                                                    > means they spend
                                                    > most of their time in the top third of the tank,
                                                    > which explains why
                                                    > they sleep towards the top of the water. Depending
                                                    > if you have live
                                                    > plants and/or a bubblestone you may want to get one
                                                    > or the other to
                                                    > help oxygenate the water. Platties temperature
                                                    > range is normally 72
                                                    > degrees to about 79 degrees, however they can live
                                                    > in warmer waters
                                                    > up to 84 degrees.
                                                    >
                                                    > Hopefully this helps you in some way.
                                                    >
                                                    > Randy
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 698 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/6/2004
                                                    Subject: temperature spike!
                                                    We're having a really weird weather day. After yesterday being in low 60s
                                                    (f), today I woke up to 70 something degrees. My husband is sleeping off a
                                                    midnight shift, so our bedroom has been closed up all day. I came back to
                                                    the bedroom to feed the babies, and saw that the thermometer in the tank was
                                                    reading almost 90 degrees (f). The fish are all fine as far as I can see. I
                                                    ve unplugged the heater, turned off the hood light, and I have the hood
                                                    hanging off the tank slightly so the extra heat can escape.

                                                    Could the unexpected temperature change harm the fish? As soon as I noticed
                                                    it was high I made rapid attempts to rectify the situation ... I just don't
                                                    want to lose any of my fish. Especially the babies, as they are almost ready
                                                    to be taken out of the breeder box!

                                                    I've got 3 adult Mollies, 3 adult platys, one plecostamus, and somewhere
                                                    around 20 (give or take one or two) baby mollies.

                                                    Is there a way I can lower the temperature to a safer level, without
                                                    shocking the fish? I'd think ice cubes would be too drastic a temperature
                                                    change, as would cold water. Not to mention I'd have to treat the water
                                                    added in, and in small amounts that would be too hard to calculate the ph
                                                    decreaser and Start Right. Maybe do a partial water change? I'm seeing what
                                                    appears to be a little more algae than normal anyway. (the water is slightly
                                                    cloudy, and I just did a 2/3 water change a few days ago.)

                                                    I have a cat and two small children, so leaving the hood gapped open and
                                                    unattended is NOT an option.

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 699 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/6/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: temperature spike!
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] temperature spike! I don't really have an answer for you, but my question is how could it be 90 degrees unless that is what your heater was set on.  It could only be as warm as the home or the heater inside the aquarium, right?  Wonder if the thermometer is messed up.  Obviously, I could be wrong, but 70 degrees outside wouldn't spike it to 90.  I could understand if it was 90-100 outside, but 70?

                                                    JMHO
                                                    Mary

                                                    From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:27:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                    To: "Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium" <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] temperature spike!



                                                    We're having a really weird weather day. After yesterday being in low 60s
                                                    (f), today I woke up to 70 something degrees. My husband is sleeping off a
                                                    midnight shift, so our bedroom has been closed up all day. I came back to
                                                    the bedroom to feed the babies, and saw that the thermometer in the tank was
                                                    reading almost 90 degrees (f). The fish are all fine as far as I can see. I
                                                    ve unplugged the heater, turned off the hood light, and I have the hood
                                                    hanging off the tank slightly so the extra heat can escape.

                                                    Could the unexpected temperature change harm the fish? As soon as I noticed
                                                    it was high I made rapid attempts to rectify the situation ... I just don't
                                                    want to lose any of my fish. Especially the babies, as they are almost ready
                                                    to be taken out of the breeder box!

                                                    I've got 3 adult Mollies, 3 adult platys, one plecostamus, and somewhere
                                                    around 20 (give or take one or two) baby mollies.

                                                    Is there a way I can lower the temperature to a safer level, without
                                                    shocking the fish? I'd think ice cubes would be too drastic a temperature
                                                    change, as would cold water. Not to mention I'd have to treat the water
                                                    added in, and in small amounts that would be too hard to calculate the ph
                                                    decreaser and Start Right. Maybe do a partial water change? I'm seeing what
                                                    appears to be a little more algae than normal anyway. (the water is slightly
                                                    cloudy, and I just did a 2/3 water change a few days ago.)

                                                    I have a cat and two small children, so leaving the hood gapped open and
                                                    unattended is NOT an option.

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 700 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/6/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: temperature spike!
                                                    The heater doesn't have an internal thermostat, that's how. The house got up
                                                    to 80 degrees inside because we have crap for cross-ventilation. With the
                                                    light on, and the heater on its lowest setting (because we still needed the
                                                    tank heater to be turned on last night and I didn't realize I'd need to turn
                                                    it off this morning) it got pretty warm. Add that to the fact that the
                                                    bedroom where the tank is had to be closed up so my husband can sleep, and
                                                    yah it got pretty stuffy back here.

                                                    With the heater, we have to keep an eye on the thermometer because the
                                                    heater TRIES to keep things steady but without an internal thermostat there
                                                    s no real way it can say "oh hey, it's warmer than it was so let's chill for
                                                    a while".

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                    com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/06/04 15:53:53
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] temperature spike!

                                                    I don't really have an answer for you, but my question is how could it be 90 degrees unless that is what your heater was set on. It could only be as warm as the home or the heater inside the aquarium, right?
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 701 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/6/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: temperature spike!
                                                    Heater thermostats, (if they have temp.indications) are'nt always completely reliable. If your tank is sitting next to a stone or brick-wall, or something that will attain a higher temp than ambient air, your tank can be effected. I run an air-conditioned 24/7 during hot weather. Dense material, even in winter, can gain more degrees than the immediate atmosphere.
                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 702 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/6/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: temperature spike!
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] temperature spike! Gotcha!

                                                    From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:44:55 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                    To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] temperature spike!


                                                    The heater doesn't have an internal thermostat, that's how. The house got up
                                                    to 80 degrees inside because we have crap for cross-ventilation. With the
                                                    light on, and the heater on its lowest setting (because we still needed the
                                                    tank heater to be turned on last night and I didn't realize I'd need to turn
                                                    it off this morning) it got pretty warm. Add that to the fact that the
                                                    bedroom where the tank is had to be closed up so my husband can sleep, and
                                                    yah it got pretty stuffy back here.

                                                    With the heater, we have to keep an eye on the thermometer because the
                                                    heater TRIES to keep things steady but without an internal thermostat there
                                                    s no real way it can say "oh hey, it's warmer than it was so let's chill for
                                                    a while".

                                                    Erin
                                                    Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                    Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                    com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 02/06/04 15:53:53
                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] temperature spike!

                                                    I don't really have an answer for you, but my question is how could it be 90 degrees unless that is what your heater was set on. It could only be as warm as the home or the heater inside the aquarium, right?



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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 703 From: Derek Truman Date: 2/7/2004
                                                    Subject: What should I put in my new 10 gallon tank?
                                                    First off I wanted to say Hello since I am new to the group.I was
                                                    wandering what I should put in my new 10 gallon aquarium.I just set
                                                    it up yesterday, but I used my equipment,plants, and gravel from an
                                                    old tank I had.When do you think it should be done cycling?I also
                                                    wanted to know what type of fish I should put in it after it is done
                                                    cycling.I am looking for something I havnt had before, and it is
                                                    colorful.I also would like to have somthing interesting in the
                                                    tank.In the tank that I took the equipent and stuff out of to use in
                                                    this one I had a pond snail problem.I am thinking of putting a loach
                                                    in there to control that.How do weather loach.Does anyone know if
                                                    they like to eat snails?Well that is all my questions for now.This
                                                    look like a good yahoo aquarium group, and I hope to get more
                                                    involved with the group.

                                                    Thanks,
                                                    Derek Truman
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 704 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/8/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: temperature spike!
                                                    Hi Erin,

                                                    I am not sure how ur temp'r spiked up. But Here in
                                                    japan also during summer the temperature goes up. So
                                                    my lfs suggested me to Put some ice cubes in a clean
                                                    plastic bag and let it float in the tank. ONce the ice
                                                    melts u can remove the cover.

                                                    Also we get a small fan which can be hooked up to the
                                                    acq which will also help in reducing the temp'r spike.

                                                    Hope this helps.......SuNnY !!

                                                    --- Erin Vankouwenberg <celticmommy@...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > We're having a really weird weather day. After
                                                    > yesterday being in low 60s
                                                    > (f), today I woke up to 70 something degrees. My
                                                    > husband is sleeping off a
                                                    > midnight shift, so our bedroom has been closed up
                                                    > all day. I came back to
                                                    > the bedroom to feed the babies, and saw that the
                                                    > thermometer in the tank was
                                                    > reading almost 90 degrees (f). The fish are all fine
                                                    > as far as I can see. I
                                                    > ve unplugged the heater, turned off the hood light,
                                                    > and I have the hood
                                                    > hanging off the tank slightly so the extra heat can
                                                    > escape.
                                                    >
                                                    > Could the unexpected temperature change harm the
                                                    > fish? As soon as I noticed
                                                    > it was high I made rapid attempts to rectify the
                                                    > situation ... I just don't
                                                    > want to lose any of my fish. Especially the babies,
                                                    > as they are almost ready
                                                    > to be taken out of the breeder box!
                                                    >
                                                    > I've got 3 adult Mollies, 3 adult platys, one
                                                    > plecostamus, and somewhere
                                                    > around 20 (give or take one or two) baby mollies.
                                                    >
                                                    > Is there a way I can lower the temperature to a
                                                    > safer level, without
                                                    > shocking the fish? I'd think ice cubes would be too
                                                    > drastic a temperature
                                                    > change, as would cold water. Not to mention I'd have
                                                    > to treat the water
                                                    > added in, and in small amounts that would be too
                                                    > hard to calculate the ph
                                                    > decreaser and Start Right. Maybe do a partial water
                                                    > change? I'm seeing what
                                                    > appears to be a little more algae than normal
                                                    > anyway. (the water is slightly
                                                    > cloudy, and I just did a 2/3 water change a few days
                                                    > ago.)
                                                    >
                                                    > I have a cat and two small children, so leaving the
                                                    > hood gapped open and
                                                    > unattended is NOT an option.
                                                    >
                                                    > Erin
                                                    > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                    > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                    > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                    >
                                                    > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                    > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                                    > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                    > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site
                                                    > http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                    >


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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 705 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/8/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: What should I put in my new 10 gallon tank?
                                                    HI Truman - Welcome to the group !


                                                    --- Derek Truman <djtruman6786@...> wrote:
                                                    > First off I wanted to say Hello since I am new to
                                                    > the group.I was wandering what I should put in my
                                                    new 10 gallon aquarium.

                                                    >> This entirely depends on your taste. U visit a
                                                    couple of LFS and see what pleases u & ur family most.
                                                    Then check for their details on the net, their nature,
                                                    their requirements etc..

                                                    >I just set it up yesterday, but I used my equipment,
                                                    plants, and gravel from an old tank I had.

                                                    >> Do you mean all these were from a running tank ??

                                                    >When do you think it should be done cycling?I also
                                                    > wanted to know what type of fish I should put in it
                                                    > after it is done cycling.

                                                    Cycling : if u go thru the ARchive or just do a google
                                                    check u will get detailed information regarding
                                                    cycling.

                                                    >I am looking for something I havnt had before, and it
                                                    is colorful.

                                                    >> What kind of fishes did u have in the past. If u
                                                    want colourful then u can go in for mollies, platys,
                                                    betta, guppies.. again i would like to reiterate u pls
                                                    visit a couple of shops and see for urself if they
                                                    please u.

                                                    I also would like to have somthing interesting in the
                                                    tank. In the tank that I took the equipent and stuff
                                                    out of to use in this one I had a pond snail
                                                    problem.I am thinking of putting a loach in there to
                                                    control that.How do weather loach.Does anyone know if

                                                    they like to eat snails?

                                                    >> I have a couple of clown loaches and they did a vey
                                                    good job and got rid of all the snails in my 55gal
                                                    tank.

                                                    Well that is all my questions for now.This look like a
                                                    good yahoo aquarium group, and I hope to get more
                                                    involved with the group.

                                                    >> We all here try our best to share our knowledge and
                                                    exchange views ideas and experiences.

                                                    > Thanks,
                                                    > Derek Truman

                                                    Hope this helps !
                                                    >> ...SuNnY !!


                                                    __________________________________
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                                                    Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                                                    http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 706 From: Short Jonathan Date: 2/9/2004
                                                    Subject: Mollies
                                                    Ok
                                                    I now have three mollies (also added Baby black neons to my collection)
                                                    Word has it that these little beauties are a gem to breed and do so quite
                                                    easily.
                                                    I did ask about this once, not sure if anyone replied or not though.
                                                    Mollies are livebearers are'nt they?
                                                    Anyone know how long they are pregnant for?
                                                    Also, When my Loaches are doing the rounds on the Tank are they liable to
                                                    eat eggs from my Other fish?


                                                    Jonny Short
                                                    UKI Partnerships
                                                    Avalon Court
                                                    Nottingham Retainers
                                                    3rd Floor
                                                    <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...




                                                    ___________________________________________________________________________


                                                    This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for the
                                                    individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended
                                                    recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender. You
                                                    should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and should
                                                    not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other
                                                    person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
                                                    Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you.

                                                    Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
                                                    England.

                                                    Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                                    1DP.
                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 707 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/9/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Mollies
                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mollies Just from what I've read on these lists, I believe that the mollies are livebearers.  I have a platy that looks pregnant and when I asked at one lfs, they said pregnancy is about 4 weeks.  I don't know if it's the same for all live bearers or if mollies would be different.  I'm sure someone will answer that has more knowledge on the subject.

                                                    Mary

                                                    From: Short Jonathan <jonathan.short@...>
                                                    Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:05:07 -0000
                                                    To: "'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'"<FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mollies


                                                    Ok
                                                    I now have three mollies (also added Baby black neons to my collection)
                                                    Word has it that these little beauties are a gem to breed and do so quite
                                                    easily.
                                                    I did ask about this once, not sure if anyone replied or not though.
                                                    Mollies are livebearers are'nt they?
                                                    Anyone know how long they are pregnant for?
                                                    Also, When my Loaches are doing the rounds on the Tank are they liable to
                                                    eat eggs from my Other fish?


                                                    Jonny Short
                                                    UKI Partnerships
                                                    Avalon Court
                                                    Nottingham Retainers
                                                    3rd Floor
                                                    <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...




                                                    ___________________________________________________________________________


                                                    This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for the
                                                    individual or entity to which it is addressed.  If you are not the intended
                                                    recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender.  You
                                                    should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and should
                                                    not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other
                                                    person or entity.  The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
                                                    Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you.

                                                    Churchill Insurance Group plc.  Company Registration Number - 2280426.
                                                    England.

                                                    Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                                    1DP.





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                                                    • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 708 From: Sarah Date: 2/9/2004
                                                    Subject: Re: Mollies
                                                    Yes mollies are livebearers they are pregnant for about 1 month. And yes
                                                    most fish will eat eggs from other fish given half the chance

                                                    Regards

                                                    Sarah & Tony


                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: 09/02/2004 12:10:57
                                                    To: 'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'
                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mollies

                                                    Ok
                                                    I now have three mollies (also added Baby black neons to my collection)
                                                    Word has it that these little beauties are a gem to breed and do so quite
                                                    easily.
                                                    I did ask about this once, not sure if anyone replied or not though.
                                                    Mollies are livebearers are'nt they?
                                                    Anyone know how long they are pregnant for?
                                                    Also, When my Loaches are doing the rounds on the Tank are they liable to
                                                    eat eggs from my Other fish?


                                                    Jonny Short
                                                    UKI Partnerships
                                                    Avalon Court
                                                    Nottingham Retainers
                                                    3rd Floor
                                                    <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...




                                                    ___________________________________________________________________________


                                                    This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for the
                                                    individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended
                                                    recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender. You
                                                    should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and should
                                                    not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other
                                                    person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
                                                    Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you.

                                                    Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
                                                    England.

                                                    Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                                    1DP.





                                                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                    To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

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                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 709 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/9/2004
                                                    Subject: I'm starting to think I'm a "fish killer" ...
                                                    Attachments :
                                                       The last of my black Mollies is now dying. :( The male is now sitting at the bottom of the tank ... yesterday he spent the entire day at the top of the tank, sort of gasping. I tested the water with a test strip, and everything was in safe levels. I did a partial water change, and since he was acting similarly to the first black mollie that died of fungal infection, I put in a tablet and a half (for 15 gallon tank) of the fungus tabs.
                                                       
                                                      This is going to be the second black mollie I've lost this week, and it's sorta starting to freak me out. The first one it was obvious what happened, the second one didn't have any odd symptoms, just hung out at the top of the tank and then died after gasping out its last at the bottom.
                                                       
                                                      There's no sign of injury, no sign of fungus, no bloating, he was fine one day and yesterday he started acting sick.
                                                       
                                                      All of the other fish (the two females that we bought after the first black mollie died, the three platys, the pleco, and all of the baby mollies) are acting fine.
                                                       
                                                      Any ideas of what is going on? I'm going into town tomorrow to pick up my glasses prescription, so I'm going to take a water sample (from before I did the water change and dropped in fungus tabs yesterday) and the Mollie's corpse (because I doubt he'll make it to tomorrow) to the pet store to see if they can figure out what is going on. I won't be getting my $2 back for him because it's after they're warrantee period, but I would like to know if there is something I can do to prevent more fish from dying. If not for the fact that the first two mollies died BEFORE my problems with water temperature, I'd say it was stress from the water getting so much warmer than they are used to.
                                                       
                                                      Did I just get some black mollies that were already old, or sick, or what? This is weird! Help, please.
                                                       
                                                       Erin
                                                      Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                      MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                                      AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                       
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                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 710 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/9/2004
                                                      Subject: Re: I'm starting to think I'm a "fish killer" ...
                                                      Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] I'm starting to think I'm a "fish killer" ... I'm sorry Erin.  I'm really new to all this, so I can't give you any explanations.

                                                      We had a platy die last night.  We bought it last Sunday.  Hadn't eaten in days.  Just hiding in plants.  I called the store on Wed. but she said it was scared.  Scared to death I guess.  Walked by the tank about 8 last night  and it was being held to the end of the filter by the suction, poor thing.  Totally dead.  Ryan freaked out, starting bawling his eyes out.   

                                                      I emailed the store and their response back to me was that their pH is around 9.0 and that if mine is less, it could have been the stress that killed it.  I guess they don't worry about that since most of their fish are probably purchased there in that town, but they knew I drove from Houston.  Guess I won't be buying any more fish from there, anyway.

                                                      TTYL
                                                      Mary

                                                      From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                      Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:44:07 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                      To: "Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium" <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] I'm starting to think I'm a "fish killer" ...


                                                      The last of my black Mollies is now dying. :( The male is now sitting at the bottom of the tank ... yesterday he spent the entire day at the top of the tank, sort of gasping. I tested the water with a test strip, and everything was in safe levels. I did a partial water change, and since he was acting similarly to the first black mollie that died of fungal infection, I put in a tablet and a half (for 15 gallon tank) of the fungus tabs.

                                                      This is going to be the second black mollie I've lost this week, and it's sorta starting to freak me out. The first one it was obvious what happened, the second one didn't have any odd symptoms, just hung out at the top of the tank and then died after gasping out its last at the bottom.

                                                      There's no sign of injury, no sign of fungus, no bloating, he was fine one day and yesterday he started acting sick.

                                                      All of the other fish (the two females that we bought after the first black mollie died, the three platys, the pleco, and all of the baby mollies) are acting fine.

                                                      Any ideas of what is going on? I'm going into town tomorrow to pick up my glasses prescription, so I'm going to take a water sample (from before I did the water change and dropped in fungus tabs yesterday) and the Mollie's corpse (because I doubt he'll make it to tomorrow) to the pet store to see if they can figure out what is going on. I won't be getting my $2 back for him because it's after they're warrantee period, but I would like to know if there is something I can do to prevent more fish from dying. If not for the fact that the first two mollies died BEFORE my problems with water temperature, I'd say it was stress from the water getting so much warmer than they are used to.

                                                      Did I just get some black mollies that were already old, or sick, or what? This is weird! Help, please.

                                                      Erin
                                                      Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
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                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 711 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/9/2004
                                                      Subject: Re: I'm starting to think I'm a "fish killer" ...
                                                      in my experience, a ph of 9 is pretty high. the fish may have been
                                                      stressed when you got it..
                                                      amalthea
                                                      On Feb 9, 2004, at 3:21 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                      > I'm sorry Erin.  I'm really new to all this, so I can't give you any
                                                      > explanations.
                                                      >
                                                      > We had a platy die last night.  We bought it last Sunday.  Hadn't
                                                      > eaten in days.  Just hiding in plants.  I called the store on Wed. but
                                                      > she said it was scared.  Scared to death I guess.  Walked by the tank
                                                      > about 8 last night  and it was being held to the end of the filter by
                                                      > the suction, poor thing.  Totally dead.  Ryan freaked out, starting
                                                      > bawling his eyes out.   
                                                      >
                                                      > I emailed the store and their response back to me was that their pH
                                                      > is around 9.0 and that if mine is less, it could have been the stress
                                                      > that killed it.  I guess they don't worry about that since most of
                                                      > their fish are probably purchased there in that town, but they knew I
                                                      > drove from Houston.  Guess I won't be buying any more fish from there,
                                                      > anyway.
                                                      >
                                                      > TTYL
                                                      > Mary
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                      > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:44:07 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                      > To: "Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium"
                                                      > <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] I'm starting to think I'm a
                                                      > "fish killer" ...
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > The last of my black Mollies is now dying. :( The male is now sitting
                                                      > at the bottom of the tank ... yesterday he spent the entire day at the
                                                      > top of the tank, sort of gasping. I tested the water with a test
                                                      > strip, and everything was in safe levels. I did a partial water
                                                      > change, and since he was acting similarly to the first black mollie
                                                      > that died of fungal infection, I put in a tablet and a half (for 15
                                                      > gallon tank) of the fungus tabs.
                                                      >
                                                      > This is going to be the second black mollie I've lost this week, and
                                                      > it's sorta starting to freak me out. The first one it was obvious what
                                                      > happened, the second one didn't have any odd symptoms, just hung out
                                                      > at the top of the tank and then died after gasping out its last at the
                                                      > bottom.
                                                      >
                                                      > There's no sign of injury, no sign of fungus, no bloating, he was
                                                      > fine one day and yesterday he started acting sick.
                                                      >
                                                      > All of the other fish (the two females that we bought after the first
                                                      > black mollie died, the three platys, the pleco, and all of the baby
                                                      > mollies) are acting fine.
                                                      >
                                                      > Any ideas of what is going on? I'm going into town tomorrow to pick
                                                      > up my glasses prescription, so I'm going to take a water sample (from
                                                      > before I did the water change and dropped in fungus tabs yesterday)
                                                      > and the Mollie's corpse (because I doubt he'll make it to tomorrow) to
                                                      > the pet store to see if they can figure out what is going on. I won't
                                                      > be getting my $2 back for him because it's after they're warrantee
                                                      > period, but I would like to know if there is something I can do to
                                                      > prevent more fish from dying. If not for the fact that the first two
                                                      > mollies died BEFORE my problems with water temperature, I'd say it was
                                                      > stress from the water getting so much warmer than they are used to.
                                                      >
                                                      > Did I just get some black mollies that were already old, or sick, or
                                                      > what? This is weird! Help, please.
                                                      >
                                                      > Erin
                                                      > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                      > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                      > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                      >
                                                      > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                      > <http://www.celticparents.com/>
                                                      > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                                      > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                      > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site
                                                      > http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
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                                                      don't be afraid to scream...
                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 712 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/9/2004
                                                      Subject: Re: I'm starting to think I'm a"fish killer" ...
                                                      Attachments :
                                                        Sorry to hear about your platy. 9 does sound a bit high. I know that some fish prefer a higher pH, but don't know about that one.
                                                         
                                                        Now I'm noticing something about our dying male molly that I never saw before this afternoon. His eyes are bulging outward. So I looked it up, and there is a disease that causes their eyes to bulge that way. But there is nothing I can get to fix it. (The two treatments mentioned I have NEVER seen before.) The causes they mentioned were overcrowding (which to me would be odd, considering that we only had the three mollies, three platys and one plecostamus, and the breeder tank with the babies.) and poor water quality. But I tested the water and the results came back fine!
                                                         
                                                        The gold colored female spent the day chasing him all over the tank nipping at him,  and he apparently died on me while I was picking up my daughter from school. (I JUST got back.) So now the gold colored female is nibbling on him. (ewww.) Are Mollies scavengers as well???
                                                         
                                                        I'm off to pull the corpse out of the tank and put it in a baggie or something for my trip to town tomorrow.
                                                         
                                                         Erin
                                                        Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                        MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
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                                                        Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                         
                                                        Date: 02/09/04 15:19:42
                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] I'm starting to think I'm a"fish killer" ...
                                                         
                                                        I'm sorry Erin.  I'm really new to all this, so I can't give you any explanations.

                                                        We had a platy die last night.  We bought it last Sunday.  Hadn't eaten in days.  Just hiding in plants.  I called the store on Wed. but she said it was scared.  Scared to death I guess.  Walked by the tank about 8 last night  and it was being held to the end of the filter by the suction, poor thing.  Totally dead.  Ryan freaked out, starting bawling his eyes out.   

                                                        I emailed the store and their response back to me was that their pH is around 9.0 and that if mine is less, it could have been the stress that killed it.  I guess they don't worry about that since most of their fish are probably purchased there in that town, but they knew I drove from Houston.  Guess I won't be buying any more fish from there, anyway.

                                                        TTYL
                                                        Mary

                                                        From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@comcast.net>
                                                        Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:44:07 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                        To: "Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium" <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] I'm starting to think I'm a "fish killer" ...


                                                        The last of my black Mollies is now dying. :( The male is now sitting at the bottom of the tank ... yesterday he spent the entire day at the top of the tank, sort of gasping. I tested the water with a test strip, and everything was in safe levels. I did a partial water change, and since he was acting similarly to the first black mollie that died of fungal infection, I put in a tablet and a half (for 15 gallon tank) of the fungus tabs.

                                                        This is going to be the second black mollie I've lost this week, and it's sorta starting to freak me out. The first one it was obvious what happened, the second one didn't have any odd symptoms, just hung out at the top of the tank and then died after gasping out its last at the bottom.

                                                        There's no sign of injury, no sign of fungus, no bloating, he was fine one day and yesterday he started acting sick.

                                                        All of the other fish (the two females that we bought after the first black mollie died, the three platys, the pleco, and all of the baby mollies) are acting fine.

                                                        Any ideas of what is going on? I'm going into town tomorrow to pick up my glasses prescription, so I'm going to take a water sample (from before I did the water change and dropped in fungus tabs yesterday) and the Mollie's corpse (because I doubt he'll make it to tomorrow) to the pet store to see if they can figure out what is going on. I won't be getting my $2 back for him because it's after they're warrantee period, but I would like to know if there is something I can do to prevent more fish from dying. If not for the fact that the first two mollies died BEFORE my problems with water temperature, I'd say it was stress from the water getting so much warmer than they are used to.

                                                        Did I just get some black mollies that were already old, or sick, or what? This is weird! Help, please.

                                                        Erin
                                                        Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                        MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                                        AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

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                                                        ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 713 From: scoutboywithshortbusdog Date: 2/9/2004
                                                        Subject: new tank
                                                        Hi all I just joined the group and had some questions. I was given a
                                                        70 gallon tank setup that I just got going for freshwater fish. The
                                                        only thing in it right now are some neons, what other types of
                                                        schooling fish could i put in with them that are colorful and none
                                                        aggresive, I would like to have a tank with lots of different types
                                                        of fish. I was also wondering if crabs are ok or do they eat the
                                                        fish, and how are they for taking care of? Thanks for the help Jason
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 714 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/9/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: new tank
                                                        Hi Jason,

                                                        I have in my 55gal planted community tank neons along
                                                        with , rasboras, danios, angles, gouramis, cardinals,
                                                        black neons, platys, blue rams, corys, clown
                                                        loaches..congo tetra !

                                                        And all are doing good. The secret is lots of escape
                                                        routes and plants !!

                                                        ....SuNnY !

                                                        --- scoutboywithshortbusdog
                                                        <scoutboywithshortbusdog@...> wrote:
                                                        > Hi all I just joined the group and had some
                                                        > questions. I was given a
                                                        > 70 gallon tank setup that I just got going for
                                                        > freshwater fish. The
                                                        > only thing in it right now are some neons, what
                                                        > other types of
                                                        > schooling fish could i put in with them that are
                                                        > colorful and none
                                                        > aggresive, I would like to have a tank with lots of
                                                        > different types
                                                        > of fish. I was also wondering if crabs are ok or do
                                                        > they eat the
                                                        > fish, and how are they for taking care of? Thanks
                                                        > for the help Jason
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >


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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 715 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/9/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: I'm starting to think I'm a"fish killer" ...
                                                        Hi Erin,

                                                        Sorry to read about ur mollies. the disease u are
                                                        mentioning is Corneybacteriosis.

                                                        Symptoms: Bulging eyes
                                                        Treatment: There are a few commercially available
                                                        products which treat corneybacteriosis. Penicillin and
                                                        tetracycline are among them.

                                                        Information: Corneybacteria causes swelling in the
                                                        head which will push the eyes outward. It is caused by
                                                        overcrowding and water of poor quality, having an
                                                        excess of ammonia and / or nitrites.

                                                        I think daily water changes might also help you to
                                                        some extent.

                                                        ....SuNnY !!



                                                        --- Erin Vankouwenberg <celticmommy@...>
                                                        wrote:
                                                        > Sorry to hear about your platy. 9 does sound a bit
                                                        > high. I know that some
                                                        > fish prefer a higher pH, but don't know about that
                                                        > one.
                                                        >
                                                        > Now I'm noticing something about our dying male
                                                        > molly that I never saw
                                                        > before this afternoon. His eyes are bulging outward.
                                                        > So I looked it up, and
                                                        > there is a disease that causes their eyes to bulge
                                                        > that way. But there is
                                                        > nothing I can get to fix it. (The two treatments
                                                        > mentioned I have NEVER seen
                                                        > before.) The causes they mentioned were overcrowding
                                                        > (which to me would be
                                                        > odd, considering that we only had the three mollies,
                                                        > three platys and one
                                                        > plecostamus, and the breeder tank with the babies.)
                                                        > and poor water quality.
                                                        > But I tested the water and the results came back
                                                        > fine!
                                                        >
                                                        > The gold colored female spent the day chasing him
                                                        > all over the tank nipping
                                                        > at him, and he apparently died on me while I was
                                                        > picking up my daughter
                                                        > from school. (I JUST got back.) So now the gold
                                                        > colored female is nibbling
                                                        > on him. (ewww.) Are Mollies scavengers as well???
                                                        >
                                                        > I'm off to pull the corpse out of the tank and put
                                                        > it in a baggie or
                                                        > something for my trip to town tomorrow.
                                                        >
                                                        > Erin
                                                        > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                        > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                        > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                        >
                                                        > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                        > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                                        > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                        > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site
                                                        > http://www.celticparents
                                                        > com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                        >
                                                        > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Date: 02/09/04 15:19:42
                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] I'm
                                                        > starting to think I'm a
                                                        > fish killer" ...
                                                        >
                                                        > I'm sorry Erin. I'm really new to all this, so I
                                                        > can't give you any
                                                        > explanations.
                                                        >
                                                        > We had a platy die last night. We bought it last
                                                        > Sunday. Hadn't eaten in
                                                        > days. Just hiding in plants. I called the store on
                                                        > Wed. but she said it
                                                        > was scared. Scared to death I guess. Walked by the
                                                        > tank about 8 last night
                                                        > and it was being held to the end of the filter by
                                                        > the suction, poor thing.
                                                        > Totally dead. Ryan freaked out, starting bawling
                                                        > his eyes out.
                                                        >
                                                        > I emailed the store and their response back to me
                                                        > was that their pH is
                                                        > around 9.0 and that if mine is less, it could have
                                                        > been the stress that
                                                        > killed it. I guess they don't worry about that
                                                        > since most of their fish are
                                                        > probably purchased there in that town, but they knew
                                                        > I drove from Houston.
                                                        > Guess I won't be buying any more fish from there,
                                                        > anyway.
                                                        >
                                                        > TTYL
                                                        > Mary
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                        > Reply-To:
                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:44:07 -0500 (Eastern
                                                        > Standard Time)
                                                        > To: "Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium"
                                                        > <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] I'm
                                                        > starting to think I'm a "fish
                                                        > killer" ...
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > The last of my black Mollies is now dying. :( The
                                                        > male is now sitting at the
                                                        > bottom of the tank ... yesterday he spent the entire
                                                        > day at the top of the
                                                        > tank, sort of gasping. I tested the water with a
                                                        > test strip, and everything
                                                        > was in safe levels. I did a partial water change,
                                                        > and since he was acting
                                                        > similarly to the first black mollie that died of
                                                        > fungal infection, I put in
                                                        > a tablet and a half (for 15 gallon tank) of the
                                                        > fungus tabs.
                                                        >
                                                        > This is going to be the second black mollie I've
                                                        > lost this week, and it's
                                                        > sorta starting to freak me out. The first one it was
                                                        > obvious what happened,
                                                        > the second one didn't have any odd symptoms, just
                                                        > hung out at the top of the
                                                        > tank and then died after gasping out its last at the
                                                        > bottom.
                                                        >
                                                        > There's no sign of injury, no sign of fungus, no
                                                        > bloating, he was fine one
                                                        > day and yesterday he started acting sick.
                                                        >
                                                        > All of the other fish (the two females that we
                                                        > bought after the first black
                                                        > mollie died, the three platys, the pleco, and all of
                                                        > the baby mollies) are
                                                        > acting fine.
                                                        >
                                                        > Any ideas of what is going on? I'm going into town
                                                        > tomorrow to pick up my
                                                        > glasses prescription, so I'm going to take a water
                                                        > sample (from before I did
                                                        > the water change and dropped in fungus tabs
                                                        > yesterday) and the Mollie's
                                                        > corpse (because I doubt he'll make it to tomorrow)
                                                        > to the pet store to see
                                                        > if they can figure out what is going on. I won't be
                                                        > getting my $2 back for
                                                        > him because it's after they're warrantee period, but
                                                        > I would like to know if
                                                        > there is something I can do to prevent more fish
                                                        > from dying. If not for the
                                                        > fact that the first two mollies died BEFORE my
                                                        > problems with water
                                                        > temperature, I'd say it was stress from the water
                                                        > getting so much warmer
                                                        > than they are used to.
                                                        >
                                                        > Did I just get some black mollies that were already
                                                        > old, or sick, or what?
                                                        > This is weird! Help, please.
                                                        >
                                                        > Erin
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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 716 From: daniel_roachus Date: 2/10/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: new tank
                                                        --- In
                                                        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "scoutboywithshortbusd
                                                        og" <scoutboywithshortbusdog@m...> wrote:
                                                        > Hi all I just joined the group and had some questions. I was given
                                                        a
                                                        > 70 gallon tank setup that I just got going for freshwater fish. The
                                                        > only thing in it right now are some neons, what other types of
                                                        > schooling fish could i put in with them that are colorful and none
                                                        > aggresive, I would like to have a tank with lots of different types
                                                        > of fish. I was also wondering if crabs are ok or do they eat the
                                                        > fish, and how are they for taking care of? Thanks for the help
                                                        Jason


                                                        Sounds a nice size tank. Remember to stock it gradually, and wait for
                                                        the cycling to finish if it isn't already.

                                                        A few ideas:

                                                        1 Red tailed black shark - In such a large tank, these should be ok
                                                        with neons if there are enough hiding spaces. (don't keep more than
                                                        one because they are quite aggressive towards each other)

                                                        6 zebra loaches - Smaller than clowms amd look pretty cool!

                                                        a school of tiger barbs (but watch out for fin nipping)

                                                        A school of leopard/zebra danios (I hear the giant danios can be a
                                                        bit aggressive if not in a school)

                                                        more tetra schools.

                                                        Have a look at www.fishprofiles.com

                                                        A big school of cories for the bottom

                                                        Gouramis (snakeskin and pearl look very cool)

                                                        .....
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 717 From: Short Jonathan Date: 2/10/2004
                                                        Subject: Erin's Mollies
                                                        Sorry to hear that Erin, but I'm inclined to agree with Amalthea, I've
                                                        always thought a Ph of 9 to be in teh "Danger" level.
                                                        What is your own Ph like?
                                                        Also, do you have an airstone?
                                                        Is there any way that the pump is pushing through pollutants like hairspray
                                                        or deodorants which is causing the mollies to gasp for air.
                                                        If that is the case I've no idea why it isn't bothering your other fish.
                                                        Could it be plain old age?


                                                        Jonny Short
                                                        UKI Partnerships
                                                        Avalon Court
                                                        Nottingham Retainers
                                                        3rd Floor
                                                        <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...




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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 718 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/10/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: Erin's Mollies
                                                        MY ph wasn't at 9, someone else had mentioned that theirs was. I took the
                                                        water sample to petsmart today, turns out the ammonia level was high. I
                                                        guess it was the ammonia spike I was expecting a couple weeks back but never
                                                        got. So, it killed off all of my BLACK mollies. Now I've got two female
                                                        fancy mollies, and a bunch of fancy molly babies. I'm going to do another
                                                        partial water change today (despite having done one Sunday night) because I
                                                        m broke until Friday and cannot buy the ammonia filter thingies or ammonia
                                                        test strips.

                                                        If all my fish die before Friday, I guess that's just the price I'll have to
                                                        pay, I'll get new fish. *shrugs* I can't just have money appear out of
                                                        nowhere, so I'm outta luck til Friday. Apparently, Black Mollies are really
                                                        WEAK in comparison to the fancies. They are really susceptible to stress
                                                        from water temperature changes, fungus, and all kinds of things. They are
                                                        not as tough as they are reported at being.

                                                        Erin
                                                        Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
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                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                        From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Date: 02/10/04 09:14:31
                                                        To: 'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'
                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Erin's Mollies

                                                        Sorry to hear that Erin, but I'm inclined to agree with Amalthea, I've
                                                        always thought a Ph of 9 to be in teh "Danger" level.
                                                        What is your own Ph like?
                                                        Also, do you have an airstone?
                                                        Is there any way that the pump is pushing through pollutants like hairspray
                                                        or deodorants which is causing the mollies to gasp for air.
                                                        If that is the case I've no idea why it isn't bothering your other fish.
                                                        Could it be plain old age?
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 719 From: mvalderaz.geo Date: 2/10/2004
                                                        Subject: how many danios
                                                        I'm starting a 2 gallon explorer tank, how many zebra danios can I
                                                        safely keep in this tank?
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 720 From: Derek Truman Date: 2/10/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: new tank
                                                        I am not to sure about crabs, but ghost shrimp are very peaceful.They don't bother any type of fish.I think they look cool to.

                                                        scoutboywithshortbusdog <scoutboywithshortbusdog@...> wrote:
                                                        Hi all I just joined the group and had some questions. I was given a
                                                        70 gallon tank setup that I just got going for freshwater fish. The
                                                        only thing in it right now are some neons, what other types of
                                                        schooling fish could i put in with them that are colorful and none
                                                        aggresive, I would like to have a tank with lots of different types
                                                        of fish. I was also wondering if crabs are ok or do they eat the
                                                        fish, and how are they for taking care of?  Thanks for the help Jason




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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 721 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/10/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: new tank
                                                        if you have a tank that large and can plant it a bit so there's hiding
                                                        spaces, see if you can get to the store and pick out a docile blue
                                                        crayfish. they're very beautiful and look like little lobsters. some
                                                        *can* be aggressive, so watch the one you pick out for a while. if it's
                                                        in a tank with small or slow fish and it ignores them, you can be
                                                        relatively sure that it will be docile in your tank. i have had mine in
                                                        with both small and slow fish and he's pretty big (almost 5" long) and
                                                        he's more afraid of the fish then they are of him (he actually gets
                                                        picked on by the parrots a bit.)
                                                        he's a really beautiful animal though and very active. he crawls all
                                                        over the tank, and climbs (make sure you have a good cover!) so if
                                                        you're looking for an interesting addition to a large tank, i think
                                                        that might be a good solution.
                                                        i just got my 55 all set up, so perhaps later i'll try to take some
                                                        pictures and put them up on the site. (i apologize in advance for not
                                                        having a background yet, but i haven't found one i like....)
                                                        amalthea
                                                        On Feb 10, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Derek Truman wrote:

                                                        > I am not to sure about crabs, but ghost shrimp are very peaceful.They
                                                        > don't bother any type of fish.I think they look cool to.
                                                        >
                                                        > scoutboywithshortbusdog <scoutboywithshortbusdog@...> wrote:
                                                        > Hi all I just joined the group and had some questions. I was given a
                                                        > 70 gallon tank setup that I just got going for freshwater fish. The
                                                        > only thing in it right now are some neons, what other types of
                                                        > schooling fish could i put in with them that are colorful and none
                                                        > aggresive, I would like to have a tank with lots of different types
                                                        > of fish. I was also wondering if crabs are ok or do they eat the
                                                        > fish, and how are they for taking care of?  Thanks for the help Jason
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 722 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/10/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: new tank
                                                        hi amalthea,

                                                        So how did u move from ur smaller tank to the 55gal ?
                                                        How long did it take and yup we look forward to the
                                                        pix of the new tank...do advise once its been
                                                        loaded...SuNnY !

                                                        --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                        > if you have a tank that large and can plant it a bit
                                                        > so there's hiding
                                                        > spaces, see if you can get to the store and pick out
                                                        > a docile blue
                                                        > crayfish. they're very beautiful and look like
                                                        > little lobsters. some
                                                        > *can* be aggressive, so watch the one you pick out
                                                        > for a while. if it's
                                                        > in a tank with small or slow fish and it ignores
                                                        > them, you can be
                                                        > relatively sure that it will be docile in your tank.
                                                        > i have had mine in
                                                        > with both small and slow fish and he's pretty big
                                                        > (almost 5" long) and
                                                        > he's more afraid of the fish then they are of him
                                                        > (he actually gets
                                                        > picked on by the parrots a bit.)
                                                        > he's a really beautiful animal though and very
                                                        > active. he crawls all
                                                        > over the tank, and climbs (make sure you have a good
                                                        > cover!) so if
                                                        > you're looking for an interesting addition to a
                                                        > large tank, i think
                                                        > that might be a good solution.
                                                        > i just got my 55 all set up, so perhaps later i'll
                                                        > try to take some
                                                        > pictures and put them up on the site. (i apologize
                                                        > in advance for not
                                                        > having a background yet, but i haven't found one i
                                                        > like....)
                                                        > amalthea
                                                        > On Feb 10, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Derek Truman wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > > I am not to sure about crabs, but ghost shrimp are
                                                        > very peaceful.They
                                                        > > don't bother any type of fish.I think they look
                                                        > cool to.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > scoutboywithshortbusdog
                                                        > <scoutboywithshortbusdog@...> wrote:
                                                        > > Hi all I just joined the group and had some
                                                        > questions. I was given a
                                                        > > 70 gallon tank setup that I just got going for
                                                        > freshwater fish. The
                                                        > > only thing in it right now are some neons, what
                                                        > other types of
                                                        > > schooling fish could i put in with them that are
                                                        > colorful and none
                                                        > > aggresive, I would like to have a tank with lots
                                                        > of different types
                                                        > > of fish. I was also wondering if crabs are ok or
                                                        > do they eat the
                                                        > > fish, and how are they for taking care of?�
                                                        > Thanks for the help Jason
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
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                                                        > online
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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 723 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/10/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: new tank
                                                        well, the pictures are already up on the site in a folder called
                                                        "amalthea's tank" i ended up doing the move just as i thought, took
                                                        most of the water, put it in a 30 gallon bucket, then the plants, the
                                                        decor and then the fish, i hung the heater in there, and the filter as
                                                        well. then i slid the old tank out of it's place while it was still on
                                                        the stand, put the new stand in got some help and lifted the new tank
                                                        onto it. after that i put in the new gravel, some water, then the decor
                                                        and the plants. afterward i checked the temp, which was still good, so
                                                        i put the fish in, some new water, the rest of the old water and
                                                        started up the old filter. once that was running i hooked up the new
                                                        canister filter and everything was good to go. i just needed some help
                                                        after that taking the old tank away...
                                                        the whole thing took about 3 hours and i'm really happy with the new
                                                        tank... now i just need some new fish :)
                                                        amalthea
                                                        On Feb 11, 2004, at 1:14 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

                                                        > hi amalthea,
                                                        >
                                                        > So how did u move from ur smaller tank to the 55gal ?
                                                        > How long did it take and yup we look forward to the
                                                        > pix of the new tank...do advise once its been
                                                        > loaded...SuNnY !
                                                        >
                                                        > --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                        >> if you have a tank that large and can plant it a bit
                                                        >> so there's hiding
                                                        >> spaces, see if you can get to the store and pick out
                                                        >> a docile blue
                                                        >> crayfish. they're very beautiful and look like
                                                        >> little lobsters. some
                                                        >> *can* be aggressive, so watch the one you pick out
                                                        >> for a while. if it's
                                                        >> in a tank with small or slow fish and it ignores
                                                        >> them, you can be
                                                        >> relatively sure that it will be docile in your tank.
                                                        >> i have had mine in
                                                        >> with both small and slow fish and he's pretty big
                                                        >> (almost 5" long) and
                                                        >> he's more afraid of the fish then they are of him
                                                        >> (he actually gets
                                                        >> picked on by the parrots a bit.)
                                                        >> he's a really beautiful animal though and very
                                                        >> active. he crawls all
                                                        >> over the tank, and climbs (make sure you have a good
                                                        >> cover!) so if
                                                        >> you're looking for an interesting addition to a
                                                        >> large tank, i think
                                                        >> that might be a good solution.
                                                        >> i just got my 55 all set up, so perhaps later i'll
                                                        >> try to take some
                                                        >> pictures and put them up on the site. (i apologize
                                                        >> in advance for not
                                                        >> having a background yet, but i haven't found one i
                                                        >> like....)
                                                        >> amalthea
                                                        >> On Feb 10, 2004, at 4:08 PM, Derek Truman wrote:
                                                        >>
                                                        >>> I am not to sure about crabs, but ghost shrimp are
                                                        >> very peaceful.They
                                                        >>> don't bother any type of fish.I think they look
                                                        >> cool to.
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>> scoutboywithshortbusdog
                                                        >> <scoutboywithshortbusdog@...> wrote:
                                                        >>> Hi all I just joined the group and had some
                                                        >> questions. I was given a
                                                        >>> 70 gallon tank setup that I just got going for
                                                        >> freshwater fish. The
                                                        >>> only thing in it right now are some neons, what
                                                        >> other types of
                                                        >>> schooling fish could i put in with them that are
                                                        >> colorful and none
                                                        >>> aggresive, I would like to have a tank with lots
                                                        >> of different types
                                                        >>> of fish. I was also wondering if crabs are ok or
                                                        >> do they eat the
                                                        >>> fish, and how are they for taking care of? 
                                                        >> Thanks for the help Jason
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>>
                                                        >>> Do you Yahoo!?
                                                        >>> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
                                                        >> online
                                                        >>>
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                                                        >>> <l.gif>
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                                                        >>>
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                                                        >>
                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                        >>>  
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                                                        >> to:
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                                                        >>> Service.
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                                                        >> against your
                                                        >> religion....
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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 724 From: daniel_roachus Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: how many danios
                                                        --- In
                                                        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "mvalderaz.geo"
                                                        <bluetexas@l...> wrote:
                                                        > I'm starting a 2 gallon explorer tank, how many zebra danios can I
                                                        > safely keep in this tank?

                                                        None - I wouldn't keep them in much below a 15 galon tank, they need
                                                        their space, and they need to be in at least 3s..
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 725 From: Short Jonathan Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Marine?!
                                                        Just out of interest, does anybody here Keep or intend on keeping Marine
                                                        fish?
                                                        I've been reading up for a few months on the subject and think I may start
                                                        in about April time (when the bonus comes through) Just wondered if anybody
                                                        else keeps or wants to keep them


                                                        Jonny Short
                                                        UKI Partnerships
                                                        Avalon Court
                                                        Nottingham Retainers
                                                        3rd Floor
                                                        <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...




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                                                        This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for the
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                                                        Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
                                                        England.

                                                        Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                                        1DP.
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 726 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: how many danios
                                                        You couldn't keep more than one fish, really, in a 2 gallon explorer. It'd
                                                        be IDEAL for a betta, but nothing else would be very comfortable in it.

                                                        Erin
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                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                        From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Date: 02/11/04 07:41:09
                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: how many danios

                                                        --- In
                                                        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "mvalderaz.geo"
                                                        <bluetexas@l...> wrote:
                                                        > I'm starting a 2 gallon explorer tank, how many zebra danios can I
                                                        > safely keep in this tank?

                                                        None - I wouldn't keep them in much below a 15 galon tank, they need
                                                        their space, and they need to be in at least 3s..




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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 727 From: Jonathan Short Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: how many danios
                                                        My tank is 8 gallons and I safely keep a large number of fish
                                                        including 5 danios. They're little scamps though and forever play
                                                        withthe other fish, even if they don't wanna be played with lol


                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                        "mvalderaz.geo" <bluetexas@l...> wrote:
                                                        > I'm starting a 2 gallon explorer tank, how many zebra danios can I
                                                        > safely keep in this tank?
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 728 From: John Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: how many danios
                                                        Hi guys.
                                                         
                                                        I only just joined this group and I have a small question. When you are discussing Gallons are you referring to the US gallon or the UK gallon? I'm from the UK and I often find this confusing on the net.
                                                         
                                                        John
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:10 PM
                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: how many danios

                                                        My tank is 8 gallons and I safely keep a large number of fish
                                                        including 5 danios. They're little scamps though and forever play
                                                        withthe other fish, even if they don't wanna be played with lol


                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                        "mvalderaz.geo" <bluetexas@l...> wrote:
                                                        > I'm starting a 2 gallon explorer tank, how many zebra danios can I
                                                        > safely keep in this tank?

                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 729 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Cray fish
                                                        Blank
                                                         
                                                        I   was  wondering   how  aggressive  cray fish are?
                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 730 From: John Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: Cray fish
                                                        Blank
                                                        I can only speak from crayfish I have seen in the UK but I'me led to believe that they can be reasonably aggrressive. about a 4 on a scale of 1 to 10.
                                                         
                                                        I think that they mostly like long fins and small fish so perhaps keep them in a species tank or with larger robust fish.
                                                         
                                                        Hope that helps.
                                                         
                                                        John
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 1:52 PM
                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Cray fish

                                                         
                                                        I   was  wondering   how  aggressive  cray fish are?
                                                         

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 731 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: Cray fish
                                                        Thank  you
                                                         
                                                        I can only speak from crayfish I have seen in the UK but I'me led to believe that they can be reasonably aggrressive. about a 4 on a scale of 1 to 10.
                                                         
                                                        I think that they mostly like long fins and small fish so perhaps keep them in a species tank or with larger robust fish.
                                                         
                                                        Hope that helps.
                                                         
                                                        John

                                                         
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 732 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: New file uploaded to FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                        Hello,

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                                                        Description : Conversion Tool ~ simple and easy to use Program to calculate metric from US standard

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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 733 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: how many danios
                                                        actually, you could also keep a single paradise fish...
                                                        amalthea
                                                        On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:06 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                                        > You couldn't keep more than one fish, really, in a 2 gallon explorer.
                                                        > It'd
                                                        > be IDEAL for a betta, but nothing else would be very comfortable in
                                                        > it.
                                                        >
                                                        > Erin
                                                        > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                        > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                        > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                        >
                                                        > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                        > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                                        > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                        > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                        > com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                        >
                                                        > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Date: 02/11/04 07:41:09
                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: how many danios
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In
                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "mvalderaz.geo"
                                                        > <bluetexas@l...> wrote:
                                                        > > I'm starting a 2 gallon explorer tank, how many zebra danios can I
                                                        > > safely keep in this tank?
                                                        >
                                                        > None - I wouldn't keep them in much below a 15 galon tank, they need
                                                        > their space, and they need to be in at least 3s..
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
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                                                        >


                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
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                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 734 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: how many danios
                                                        i think in general, the person means the US gallon.
                                                        amalthea
                                                        On Feb 11, 2004, at 9:46 AM, John wrote:

                                                        > Hi guys.
                                                        >  
                                                        > I only just joined this group and I have a small question. When you
                                                        > are discussing Gallons are you referring to the US gallon or the UK
                                                        > gallon? I'm from the UK and I often find this confusing on the net.
                                                        >  
                                                        > John
                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                        > From: Jonathan Short
                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:10 PM
                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: how many danios
                                                        >
                                                        > My tank is 8 gallons and I safely keep a large number of fish
                                                        > including 5 danios. They're little scamps though and forever play
                                                        > withthe other fish, even if they don't wanna be played with lol
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                        > "mvalderaz.geo" <bluetexas@l...> wrote:
                                                        > > I'm starting a 2 gallon explorer tank, how many zebra danios can I
                                                        > > safely keep in this tank?
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                        >  
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                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                        for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                        religion....
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 735 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: Cray fish
                                                        i think each crayfish is different. if you want one, just make sure to
                                                        watch it in the store before you purchase it, and never buy one that's
                                                        been kept in those small containers away from other fish as you'll not
                                                        be able to tell how it will behave in your tank...
                                                        amalthea
                                                        On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:52 AM, Lady Tara Minerva wrote:

                                                        >  
                                                        > I   was  wondering   how  aggressive  cray fish are?
                                                        >  
                                                        >
                                                        >  
                                                        >
                                                        >  
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        >
                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                        >  
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                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                        >  
                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                        > Service.
                                                        >
                                                        >


                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                        don't be afraid to scream...
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 736 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: death
                                                        My first fish died, only took over a year before I came a fish killer. It was not my fault I purchased fake plants and the poor thing got tangled in it and died! I did take the plants out of my tank so none of my other fish would get hurt!
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 737 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                        Got 3 cory cats on Monday. One died yesterday. Checked the water. High
                                                        Nitrites. Just did a partial water change on Sunday. Guess this is the
                                                        spike. How much water should I change. 10,20, 30% 15% today and then
                                                        again tomorrow? Ammonia is trace amounts.

                                                        Thanks
                                                        Mary
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 738 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Another question
                                                        I use a Python to do the water changes. What I've been doing is putting the
                                                        water back in to the tank, with the same. I read that you should
                                                        dechlorinate the water before it even goes in the tank. How do you do that?

                                                        Thanks again.

                                                        Mary
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 739 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: how many danios
                                                        What are paradise fish? I've never heard of those. Are they similar to the
                                                        bettas in that they don't get along with others?

                                                        Erin
                                                        Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                        MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                        AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                        Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                        Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                        com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                        From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Date: 02/11/04 13:14:22
                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: how many danios

                                                        actually, you could also keep a single paradise fish...
                                                        amalthea
                                                        On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:06 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                                        > You couldn't keep more than one fish, really, in a 2 gallon explorer.
                                                        > It'd
                                                        > be IDEAL for a betta, but nothing else would be very comfortable in
                                                        > it.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 740 From: Sarah Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: how many danios
                                                         
                                                        I had a paradise once it was lovely i kept it in the communtity tank which also had a breeding pair of firemouths in
                                                         
                                                        Regards
                                                         
                                                        Sarah & Tony
                                                         
                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                         
                                                        Date: 11/02/2004 20:01:14
                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: how many danios
                                                         
                                                        What are paradise fish? I've never heard of those. Are they similar to the
                                                        bettas in that they don't get along with others?

                                                        Erin
                                                        Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                        MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                        AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                        Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                        ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                        Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                        com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                        From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Date: 02/11/04 13:14:22
                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: how many danios

                                                        actually, you could also keep a single paradise fish...
                                                        amalthea
                                                        On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:06 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                                        > You couldn't keep more than one fish, really, in a 2 gallon explorer.
                                                        > It'd
                                                        > be IDEAL for a betta, but nothing else would be very comfortable in
                                                        > it.
                                                        >
                                                        >

                                                         
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 741 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: how many danios
                                                        http://www.geocities.com/shtinkythefish/pfish
                                                        that's a page about them, though the colors look washed out in the
                                                        pictures there. they're really beautiful fish and keeping them is
                                                        easy...
                                                        amalthea
                                                        On Feb 11, 2004, at 2:46 PM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                                        > What are paradise fish? I've never heard of those. Are they similar to
                                                        > the
                                                        > bettas in that they don't get along with others?
                                                        >
                                                        > Erin
                                                        > Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                        > MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                        > AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                        >
                                                        > Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                        > ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~
                                                        > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                        > Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                        > com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                        >
                                                        > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Date: 02/11/04 13:14:22
                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: how many danios
                                                        >
                                                        > actually, you could also keep a single paradise fish...
                                                        > amalthea
                                                        > On Feb 11, 2004, at 8:06 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > > You couldn't keep more than one fish, really, in a 2 gallon
                                                        > explorer.
                                                        > > It'd
                                                        > > be IDEAL for a betta, but nothing else would be very comfortable in
                                                        > > it.
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                        >
                                                        > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                        > <image.tiff>
                                                        >
                                                        > <l.gif>
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                        >  
                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                        >  
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                                                        > Service.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                        for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                        religion....
                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 742 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/11/2004
                                                        Subject: Re: Another question
                                                        Attachments :
                                                          Mary, what I use to do my water changes is that I remove the water (and a lot of the gunk and debris that accumulates in the gravel) with a siphon tube. I don't have the packaging for it anymore, so I am not sure of the brand name, but it is designed to get debris out of gravel as well as remove a bit of the water. It's really easy to use.
                                                           
                                                          The siphon tube empties into a bucket I use SPECIFICALLY for the tank. This bucket is used for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE. I keep emptying water from the tank into the bucket, then emptying the bucket into the bathtub, until I've emptied how much I want. (My bucket is 2.5 gallons, and I usually do a 1/3 water change, so for me a partial water change is two buckets full... 5 gallons total.)
                                                           
                                                          THEN, I get a cup, which I use ONLY for the tank, and put my aquarium salt in it. (ONLY enough for the water that I'm about to put into the tank, as aquarium salt does NOT evaporate.) I also put in the Start Right solution for the new water that I'm about to put in, into the cup. (Start Right removes chlorine AND chloramine, and is a great all-purpose water treatment. Jungle Labs makes it.) It is important that you know how many gallons your bucket will hold, so that you can do the calculations for salt and water conditioner accurately. Then, BEFORE I pour the new water into the tank, I put the cup with the salt and Start Right in it into the tank, nested into the gravel to keep it upright. This way the fish can control their exposure to the salt, AND I'm more sure of the Start Right measurements.  Once the cup is in place, I slowly pour the buckets of new water in ... I usually pour the new water just about where the cup is, so that the current from the new water pouring in will spread the Start Right about a bit. It also keeps the water from displacing the gravel too much.
                                                           
                                                          I've been able to find almost all of my water treatment stuff at the local WalMart in their pet supply aisle. They carry a good bit of Jungle Labs products, and they've worked for us so far. Start Right removes chlorine and chloramine. If your local water requires it, they also make pH decreaser and increaser. Today I had to get ACE because I'm having an ammonia spike. (that's what killed off my last black mollie the other day, and this morning we lost the male platy. *sigh* We're hoping the ACE works. Otherwise we'll have to make the half hour drive into town again to get ammonia filter cartridges from PetSmart.)  The local WalMart also has the test strips. I've got the Ammonia Test Strips as well as the kind that tests for 5 different qualities. (Quick Dip)
                                                           
                                                          Hope this helps!
                                                           
                                                          Erin
                                                          Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                          MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                                          AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                           
                                                          Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                          ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                          Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                           
                                                          From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: 02/11/04 14:58:03
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another question
                                                           
                                                          I use a Python to do the water changes. What I've been doing is putting the
                                                          water back in to the tank, with the same. I read that you should
                                                          dechlorinate the water before it even goes in the tank. How do you do that?
                                                           
                                                          ____________________________________________________
                                                            IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 743 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another question
                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another question Thanks Erin.  I'm going to do  a partial water change as soon as my husband gets home.

                                                          TTYL
                                                          Mary

                                                          From: "Erin Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:17:18 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another question


                                                          Mary, what I use to do my water changes is that I remove the water (and a lot of the gunk and debris that accumulates in the gravel) with a siphon tube. I don't have the packaging for it anymore, so I am not sure of the brand name, but it is designed to get debris out of gravel as well as remove a bit of the water. It's really easy to use.

                                                          The siphon tube empties into a bucket I use SPECIFICALLY for the tank. This bucket is used for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE. I keep emptying water from the tank into the bucket, then emptying the bucket into the bathtub, until I've emptied how much I want. (My bucket is 2.5 gallons, and I usually do a 1/3 water change, so for me a partial water change is two buckets full... 5 gallons total.)

                                                          THEN, I get a cup, which I use ONLY for the tank, and put my aquarium salt in it. (ONLY enough for the water that I'm about to put into the tank, as aquarium salt does NOT evaporate.) I also put in the Start Right solution for the new water that I'm about to put in, into the cup. (Start Right removes chlorine AND chloramine, and is a great all-purpose water treatment. Jungle Labs makes it.) It is important that you know how many gallons your bucket will hold, so that you can do the calculations for salt and water conditioner accurately. Then, BEFORE I pour the new water into the tank, I put the cup with the salt and Start Right in it into the tank, nested into the gravel to keep it upright. This way the fish can control their exposure to the salt, AND I'm more sure of the Start Right measurements.  Once the cup is in place, I slowly pour the buckets of new water in ... I usually pour the new water just about where the cup is, so that the current from the new water pouring in will spread the Start Right about a bit. It also keeps the water from displacing the gravel too much.

                                                          I've been able to find almost all of my water treatment stuff at the local WalMart in their pet supply aisle. They carry a good bit of Jungle Labs products, and they've worked for us so far. Start Right removes chlorine and chloramine. If your local water requires it, they also make pH decreaser and increaser. Today I had to get ACE because I'm having an ammonia spike. (that's what killed off my last black mollie the other day, and this morning we lost the male platy. *sigh* We're hoping the ACE works. Otherwise we'll have to make the half hour drive into town again to get ammonia filter cartridges from PetSmart.)  The local WalMart also has the test strips. I've got the Ammonia Test Strips as well as the kind that tests for 5 different qualities. (Quick Dip)

                                                          Hope this helps!

                                                          Erin
                                                          Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                          MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                          AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                          Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                          ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                          Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                          -------Original Message-------

                                                          From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: 02/11/04 14:58:03
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another question

                                                          I use a Python to do the water changes. What I've been doing is putting the
                                                          water back in to the tank, with the same. I read that you should
                                                          dechlorinate the water before it even goes in the tank. How do you do that?

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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 744 From: derwag Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Filtration type and brand
                                                          I am new to the hobby and thinking of setting up a 55 gallon
                                                          community tank with some plants. I have received conflicting advice
                                                          regarding power filters vs canisters vs undergravel, etc.

                                                          Do canister filters really offer the same quality of biofiltration
                                                          as say a biowheel set up. Someone said I would need a gravel filter
                                                          plus biowheel. I am looking for easy maintenance/simplicity and not
                                                          alot of equipment within the tank, but I also want it to be well
                                                          filtered.

                                                          Does it make sense just to go up one size of filter. For instance,
                                                          a filter rated to 75 gallons instead of one to 55? Are there any
                                                          downsides to this?

                                                          Which brand filters have the best performance in terms of clearance
                                                          and reliability and cost over time? I have yet to find a Consumer
                                                          Reports like site that provides good comparative numbers/info on the
                                                          various power and canister filter brands, does one exist?

                                                          Thanks much for any info.
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 745 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Filtration type and brand
                                                          well, i just set up a 55 and i have an emperor 400 (with a double
                                                          biowheel) and a canister filter running. it's very esthetically neutral
                                                          and the water is crystal clear...
                                                          if you want live plants though, an undergravel filter is out because
                                                          it tends to suck nutrients away from the roots and they don't do well
                                                          with them.
                                                          amalthea
                                                          On Feb 11, 2004, at 5:13 PM, derwag wrote:

                                                          > I am new to the hobby and thinking of setting up a 55 gallon
                                                          > community tank with some plants.  I have received conflicting advice
                                                          > regarding power filters vs canisters vs undergravel, etc.
                                                          >
                                                          > Do canister filters really offer the same quality of biofiltration
                                                          > as say a biowheel set up.  Someone said I would need a gravel filter
                                                          > plus biowheel.  I am looking for easy maintenance/simplicity and not
                                                          > alot of equipment within the tank, but I also want it to be well
                                                          > filtered. 
                                                          >
                                                          > Does it make sense just to go up one size of filter.  For instance,
                                                          > a filter rated to 75 gallons instead of one to 55?  Are there any
                                                          > downsides to this?
                                                          >
                                                          > Which brand filters have the best performance in terms of clearance
                                                          > and reliability and cost over time?  I have yet to find a Consumer
                                                          > Reports like site that provides good comparative numbers/info on the
                                                          > various power and canister filter brands, does one exist?
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks much for any info.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 746 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Filtration type and brand
                                                          I'm not sure of the effectiveness of different types of filters in a LARGE
                                                          tank such as you have, but in my 15 US gallon tank I've got an undergravel
                                                          filter with an air pump and it works well.

                                                          Erin
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                                                          -------Original Message-------

                                                          From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: 02/11/04 17:23:21
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Filtration type and brand

                                                          I am new to the hobby and thinking of setting up a 55 gallon
                                                          community tank with some plants. I have received conflicting advice
                                                          regarding power filters vs canisters vs undergravel, etc.
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 747 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Filtration type and brand
                                                          Hi,
                                                          Years ago, I bought a trickle filter fot my 75 gal., to have large scale bio-filtration, since the under-gravel does'nt accomodate plants. I don't know what the current state of thinking is re: effectiveness, etc., but I have no complaints with mine.
                                                          It's a 20 gallon tank, under the aquarium, with a big-square-plastic-box, the bottom of which has a plastic grate to support a spiral-cylinder of polyester mat. A gravity-fed spray-bar is suspended on top of the box, and leading into the spray-bar apparatus is a flexible plastic hose which originates on the bottom of a hang-on, clear-plastic rig which translates water from the tank into siphon-tubes, then into the hose to the spray-bar. In the 20 gallon tank, at the other end , (20 gal. LONG) separated by a large, aquarium-safe sponge, is a power-head, submerged, with a clear-plastic hose connected to the output,the other end of which is the output of the power-head. The power-head pumps water from the 20-gal. into the aquarium, and once the water-level reaches over the spillway to the intake of the siphons, the water is taken through the siphons to a sponge-filtered containment which carries water to the spray-bar, which distributes water over the DLS (the polyester-fiber coil/cylinder) which is the medium for nitrogen-fixing bacteria, to neutralize ammonia and nitrites, etc. The water in the 20 gal. is drawn through the large foam separator (which is also a mechanical and biological filter, along with the DLS, and a sponge filter located in the hang-on thingy, between the intake, and outflow of the siphons) by the power-head, which starts the process again.
                                                          I also use two Marineland cannister filters, one in the tank cabinet, and another hanging on the rear of the tank. There's another Jungle air-driven sponge filter in a corner of the aquarium.
                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 748 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Another bites the dust
                                                          Well, we lost the 2nd cory cat just now. Bought 3 on Monday, one died
                                                          yesterday, now another one. Scales look strange to me. We'll see when I
                                                          take it to the store tomorrow. All the way across town. Figures. Anyway,
                                                          looks like that tank finally cycled since I have nitrites that are off the
                                                          chart. Don't have a test for Nitrates, so we'll see when they test
                                                          tomorrow. Went ahead and changed out step 1 for the filter and did a water
                                                          change. Probably more than we should have, but couldn't be helped. All the
                                                          fish food wound up getting dumped on the floor by my 2 year old so if things
                                                          keep going the way they are, we will not have an aquarium much longer. I'm
                                                          sure I'll wake up to a bunch of floating fish tomorrow or the next day.

                                                          TTYL
                                                          Mary
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 749 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust How the heck do you know how much to feed.  If the flakes didn't fall apart, I guess it would be easier.  Should I be feeding like an 1/8th of a tsp?  Or what.  Right now there are 4 long finned black skirted tetra, 3 yellow platys, 2 blue platys, 1 cory cat and 2 marigold variatus platys.

                                                          Thanks in advance.

                                                          Mary

                                                          From: "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:19:54 -0600
                                                          To: Fresh Water Aquarium <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust


                                                          Well, we lost the 2nd cory cat just now.  Bought 3 on Monday, one died
                                                          yesterday, now another one.  Scales look strange to me.  We'll see when I
                                                          take it to the store tomorrow.  All the way across town.  Figures.  Anyway,
                                                          looks like that tank finally cycled since I have nitrites that are off the
                                                          chart.  Don't have a test for Nitrates, so we'll see when they test
                                                          tomorrow.  Went ahead and changed out step 1 for the filter and did a water
                                                          change.  Probably more than we should have, but couldn't be helped.  All the
                                                          fish food wound up getting dumped on the floor by my 2 year old so if things
                                                          keep going the way they are, we will not have an aquarium much longer.  I'm
                                                          sure I'll wake up to a bunch of floating fish tomorrow or the next day.

                                                          TTYL
                                                          Mary

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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 750 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          Hi,
                                                          I've kept mostly Corys', and they don't like to eat with people gawking at them, so, at one point, I read about how much a fish should be fed by body-weight, and thought about getting an expensive (to me) microgram-scale, and portioning according to total weight. Never did that. I've read consistantly, that you should feed only as much as a fish will consume in three minutes. And until you get it right, siphon uneaten food.
                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 751 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          i would do a 30% water change..!!

                                                          --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                          > Got 3 cory cats on Monday. One died yesterday.
                                                          > Checked the water. High
                                                          > Nitrites. Just did a partial water change on
                                                          > Sunday. Guess this is the
                                                          > spike. How much water should I change. 10,20, 30%
                                                          > 15% today and then
                                                          > again tomorrow? Ammonia is trace amounts.
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 752 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another question
                                                          Well to dechlorinate some people store the water one
                                                          day earlier and then fill up the tank.

                                                          I get dechlorinator and ADD the suggested amount into
                                                          the tap water before pouring the water in my tank.

                                                          I also add Tetra Aquasafe during water changes, but
                                                          according to the water replaced only.

                                                          Hope this helps....SuNnY !!

                                                          --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                          > I use a Python to do the water changes. What I've
                                                          > been doing is putting the
                                                          > water back in to the tank, with the same. I read
                                                          > that you should
                                                          > dechlorinate the water before it even goes in the
                                                          > tank. How do you do that?
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks again.
                                                          >
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 753 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          For serious Nitrite or Ammonia spikes, I've done, under advisement, 50% daily 'till the water's safe. If the toxins are high after the water change, I'd do another water change right away. If your tank is new, the water the fish'd be getting would be about the same minus chlorine/ammonia/nitrite.
                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 754 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          Hi Mary,

                                                          Dont feel depressed or discouraged by this loss.

                                                          I would like to share one unpleasant incident of mine
                                                          with you.

                                                          When i started my hobby after a gap of about 8 years
                                                          here it was horrible.

                                                          I brought a small 5 gal tank which was running for 1
                                                          week. Then one fine day it was a sunday i went brought
                                                          fishes worth about 35 - 40$. After setting everything
                                                          up i felt the temp was a bit low so i went and brought
                                                          a heater FROM A HOME DEPOT ( thinking it was a
                                                          automatic one that is it keeps the tempr constant btwn
                                                          26 - 28'c ) put it in and went out for lunch.

                                                          When i returned i was in for a shock the water was
                                                          boiling hot and all my fishes were dead :( all the
                                                          money down the drain :(

                                                          Well but that didnt dampen my interest in this lovely
                                                          hobby. I cleaned the whole tank, dried it in sun the
                                                          gravel etc etc and started again.i just brought 5
                                                          silver tip tetras and kept them for about one month to
                                                          see everything was okay, then gradually started adding
                                                          other fishes. Well that is history now i have 3 tanks,
                                                          5gal, 20gal and 55gal.

                                                          .....SuNnY !!
                                                          --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                          > Well, we lost the 2nd cory cat just now. Bought 3
                                                          > on Monday, one died
                                                          > yesterday, now another one. Scales look strange to
                                                          > me. We'll see when I
                                                          > take it to the store tomorrow. All the way across
                                                          > town. Figures. Anyway,
                                                          > looks like that tank finally cycled since I have
                                                          > nitrites that are off the
                                                          > chart. Don't have a test for Nitrates, so we'll see
                                                          > when they test
                                                          > tomorrow. Went ahead and changed out step 1 for the
                                                          > filter and did a water
                                                          > change. Probably more than we should have, but
                                                          > couldn't be helped. All the
                                                          > fish food wound up getting dumped on the floor by my
                                                          > 2 year old so if things
                                                          > keep going the way they are, we will not have an
                                                          > aquarium much longer. I'm
                                                          > sure I'll wake up to a bunch of floating fish
                                                          > tomorrow or the next day.
                                                          >
                                                          > TTYL
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 755 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          Mary be stingy while u feed the fishes, since they can
                                                          survive w/o food for about 7 days.

                                                          Also if u keep them hungry they will keep ur tank also
                                                          clean..

                                                          Feed about 1 tspoon twice a day. If they take about 3
                                                          mts to polish it off then its perfect. If they finish
                                                          it in say 1 -2 mts then u can increase the qty
                                                          slightly.

                                                          ..Hope this helps....SuNnY !!

                                                          --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                          > How the heck do you know how much to feed. If the
                                                          > flakes didn't fall apart,
                                                          > I guess it would be easier. Should I be feeding
                                                          > like an 1/8th of a tsp? Or
                                                          > what. Right now there are 4 long finned black
                                                          > skirted tetra, 3 yellow
                                                          > platys, 2 blue platys, 1 cory cat and 2 marigold
                                                          > variatus platys.
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks in advance.
                                                          >
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >
                                                          > From: "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...>
                                                          > Reply-To:
                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:19:54 -0600
                                                          > To: Fresh Water Aquarium
                                                          > <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another
                                                          > bites the dust
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Well, we lost the 2nd cory cat just now. Bought 3
                                                          > on Monday, one died
                                                          > yesterday, now another one. Scales look strange to
                                                          > me. We'll see when I
                                                          > take it to the store tomorrow. All the way across
                                                          > town. Figures. Anyway,
                                                          > looks like that tank finally cycled since I have
                                                          > nitrites that are off the
                                                          > chart. Don't have a test for Nitrates, so we'll see
                                                          > when they test
                                                          > tomorrow. Went ahead and changed out step 1 for the
                                                          > filter and did a water
                                                          > change. Probably more than we should have, but
                                                          > couldn't be helped. All the
                                                          > fish food wound up getting dumped on the floor by my
                                                          > 2 year old so if things
                                                          > keep going the way they are, we will not have an
                                                          > aquarium much longer. I'm
                                                          > sure I'll wake up to a bunch of floating fish
                                                          > tomorrow or the next day.
                                                          >
                                                          > TTYL
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >
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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 756 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: death
                                                          accepting fish loss is part of fish keeping !!

                                                          --- jeniferthatsme@... wrote:
                                                          > My first fish died, only took over a year before I
                                                          > came a fish killer. It was
                                                          > not my fault I purchased fake plants and the poor
                                                          > thing got tangled in it and
                                                          > died! I did take the plants out of my tank so none
                                                          > of my other fish would get
                                                          > hurt!
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 757 From: Kari Vigneau Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          I had the same thing happen to me, i did a 20% water change everyday in addition to ammoblock for the ammonia and i put some aquarium salt in for the nitrite now both are fine.
                                                          Kari

                                                          j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                               For serious Nitrite or Ammonia spikes, I've done, under advisement, 50% daily 'till the water's safe. If the toxins are high after the water change, I'd do another water change right away. If your tank is new, the water the fish'd be getting would be about the same minus chlorine/ammonia/nitrite.
                                                                                          Joe Pascavage



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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 758 From: derwag Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Why both a canister and power filter?
                                                          Amalthea:

                                                          Thank you for the quick reply. Why did you decide to use both a
                                                          power filter and canister? Do you think the power filter alone would
                                                          have been enough?

                                                          Derwag
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 759 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Why both a canister and power filter?
                                                          it might keep the levels within a safe range, but it doesn't give the
                                                          water that crystal clear look, so that they look like they're swimming
                                                          in air, if you know what i mean. i also like the idea of having both
                                                          since it gives me the opportunity to really clean one or the other
                                                          without losing too much bacteria. with the emperor, even though it has
                                                          a double biowheel on it, if you were to change both pads and both
                                                          basket contents, you get a little spike. the cannister filter should
                                                          prevent that as mine has 5 pads as well as a sachet of charcoal...
                                                          amalthea
                                                          On Feb 11, 2004, at 6:21 PM, derwag wrote:

                                                          > Amalthea:
                                                          >
                                                          > Thank you for the quick reply.  Why did you decide to use both a
                                                          > power filter and canister?  Do you think the power filter alone would
                                                          > have been enough?
                                                          >
                                                          > Derwag
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 760 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust The thing is, I don't really see uneaten food.  Most of it gets eaten within a minute and that which does begin to sink, gets eaten midway down.  Then when I have seen it on the bottom, it gets eaten.  I was afraid the corys wouldn't get anything and yet I'm spiking nitrites because of overfeeding?  Don't quite understand it.

                                                          TTYL
                                                          Mary

                                                          From: j.pascavage@...
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:09:10 +0000
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust


                                                           Hi,
                                                             I've kept mostly Corys', and they don't like to eat with people gawking at them, so, at one point, I read about how much a fish should be fed by body-weight, and thought about getting an expensive (to me) microgram-scale, and portioning according to total weight. Never did that. I've read consistantly, that you should feed only as much as a fish will consume in three minutes. And until you get it right, siphon uneaten food.
                                                                                Joe Pascavage


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                                                          • To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 761 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish Did a 30-40% water change at 4:30pm.  It's 9:41 now.  Nitrites are still registering .5 or so.  Probably better than earlier, but still purple instead of blue.  Should I do another one or wait 24 hours?

                                                          Mary

                                                          From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:42:20 -0800 (PST)
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish


                                                          i would do a 30% water change..!!

                                                          --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                          > Got 3 cory cats on Monday.  One died yesterday.
                                                          > Checked the water.  High
                                                          > Nitrites.  Just did a partial water change on
                                                          > Sunday.  Guess this is the
                                                          > spike.  How much water should I change.  10,20, 30%
                                                          > 15% today and then
                                                          > again tomorrow?  Ammonia is trace amounts.
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 762 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          have you tried to buy some sinking pellets specifically for the corys?
                                                          that way you can feed less but still be sure that they're getting
                                                          food...
                                                          amalthea
                                                          On Feb 11, 2004, at 10:36 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                          > The thing is, I don't really see uneaten food.  Most of it gets eaten
                                                          > within a minute and that which does begin to sink, gets eaten midway
                                                          > down.  Then when I have seen it on the bottom, it gets eaten.  I was
                                                          > afraid the corys wouldn't get anything and yet I'm spiking nitrites
                                                          > because of overfeeding?  Don't quite understand it.
                                                          >
                                                          > TTYL
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > From: j.pascavage@...
                                                          > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:09:10 +0000
                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >  Hi,
                                                          >    I've kept mostly Corys', and they don't like to eat with people
                                                          > gawking at them, so, at one point, I read about how much a fish should
                                                          > be fed by body-weight, and thought about getting an expensive (to me)
                                                          > microgram-scale, and portioning according to total weight. Never did
                                                          > that. I've read consistantly, that you should feed only as much as a
                                                          > fish will consume in three minutes. And until you get it right, siphon
                                                          > uneaten food.
                                                          >                       Joe Pascavage
                                                          >
                                                          >
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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 763 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust I haven't done anything yet.  Only got the corys 2 days ago and they started dying off immediately.  Going to do another partial change now, since the nitrites are still spiked.

                                                          Mary

                                                          From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:40:33 -0500
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust


                                                          have you tried to buy some sinking pellets specifically for the corys?  
                                                          that way you can feed less but still be sure that they're getting  
                                                          food...
                                                          amalthea
                                                          On Feb 11, 2004, at 10:36 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                          >  The thing is, I don't really see uneaten food.  Most of it gets eaten  
                                                          > within a minute and that which does begin to sink, gets eaten midway  
                                                          > down.  Then when I have seen it on the bottom, it gets eaten.  I was  
                                                          > afraid the corys wouldn't get anything and yet I'm spiking nitrites  
                                                          > because of overfeeding?  Don't quite understand it.
                                                          >
                                                          >  TTYL
                                                          >  Mary
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > From: j.pascavage@...
                                                          > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:09:10 +0000
                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >   Hi,
                                                          >     I've kept mostly Corys', and they don't like to eat with people  
                                                          > gawking at them, so, at one point, I read about how much a fish should  
                                                          > be fed by body-weight, and thought about getting an expensive (to me)  
                                                          > microgram-scale, and portioning according to total weight. Never did  
                                                          > that. I've read consistantly, that you should feed only as much as a  
                                                          > fish will consume in three minutes. And until you get it right, siphon  
                                                          > uneaten food.
                                                          >                        Joe Pascavage
                                                          >
                                                          >
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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 764 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          I had'nt seen uneaten food either, 'till one day, I think it was because I had a reason to use a long-stainless-steel spade. (a tool for working with aquarium-plants, that was part of a set including scissors for pruning, and a clasp for moving small, or parts of large aquarium objects. They were all on long stainless rods, and the moveable tools were controlled by a linkeage that ran to the hand). I realized I was stirring-up uneaten food, that I had'nt seen.
                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 765 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          I have'nt been following this thread closely, but I've had lots of fish in my 75 gal. tank, maybe 60 or more at one time or another when the plattys were breeding, and have never used as much as a teaspoonful, but have watched them in their feeding frenzy, and added to what disappears during the recommended period. The Corys, however did'nt, and wont eat when there's movement outside the tank, and I never learned how much to feed them of the various kinds of pellets, granules and tabs that are available for bottom feeders.
                                                          Thought of setting up my PC camera, but have'nt tried it yet.
                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 766 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/11/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          I'd do another now. Is your tank new. I'm sorry if you'd mentioned that earlier?
                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 767 From: John Date: 2/12/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          Mary
                                                           
                                                          my 2 pence worth is as follows
                                                           
                                                          Doing 1 large water change is better for controlling poor water quality than lots of several water changes. In practice I would do a 50-75% water change. But make sure that the fresh water is de-chlorinated and of the same PH, DH and Temperature as the water already in the tank. Then continue to do this everyday until the levels start to sort themselves out. I wouldn't do more than 1 water change like that in any 24 hour period to stop the fish from being too stressed.
                                                           
                                                          I still don't quite understand why but if you have for example a nitrate reading of 50 and you do a 50% water change you would expect the new nitrate reading to be 25 but in practice it would probably be about 45!
                                                           
                                                          I think the biggest problem that you have is that corys are bottom feeders and Nitrates and Nitrites tend to sit at the bottom of the tank too. therefore if possible try and syphon your water from the bottom of the tank.
                                                           
                                                          If your ammonia is only showing trace amounts then I wouldn't bother with adding any ammonia removal, best to let the bacteria in your filter take care of it. you will probably find that the nitrite will settle down to 0-0.1 over the next week so your only real concern is the nitrates. Do you have any other fish in your tank? How large is your tank?
                                                           
                                                          In the uk there is now a filter media that you can buy that will allow you to fully stock a brand new tank on day 1! I haven't tried it yet and I can't remember the name of it but if anyone is interested then shout and I'll look it up.
                                                           
                                                          John
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:42 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish

                                                          Did a 30-40% water change at 4:30pm.  It's 9:41 now.  Nitrites are still registering .5 or so.  Probably better than earlier, but still purple instead of blue.  Should I do another one or wait 24 hours?

                                                          Mary

                                                          From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:42:20 -0800 (PST)
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish


                                                          i would do a 30% water change..!!

                                                          --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                          > Got 3 cory cats on Monday.  One died yesterday.
                                                          > Checked the water.  High
                                                          > Nitrites.  Just did a partial water change on
                                                          > Sunday.  Guess this is the
                                                          > spike.  How much water should I change.  10,20, 30%
                                                          > 15% today and then
                                                          > again tomorrow?  Ammonia is trace amounts.
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 768 From: John Date: 2/12/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                           Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust
                                                          Mary did you test your water before introducing the corys? I suspect that the levels where already quite high. Fish seem to be able to adjust to their enviroment reasonably well but they don't like sudden change. It could be that the water in the tanks that they came from was different from your home setup. I would suggest that you try to get your ammonia and nitrite to 0 and your nitrates to below 30 before introducing new stock.
                                                           
                                                          John
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:48 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust

                                                          I haven't done anything yet.  Only got the corys 2 days ago and they started dying off immediately.  Going to do another partial change now, since the nitrites are still spiked.

                                                          Mary

                                                          From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:40:33 -0500
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust


                                                          have you tried to buy some sinking pellets specifically for the corys?  
                                                          that way you can feed less but still be sure that they're getting  
                                                          food...
                                                          amalthea
                                                          On Feb 11, 2004, at 10:36 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                          >  The thing is, I don't really see uneaten food.  Most of it gets eaten  
                                                          > within a minute and that which does begin to sink, gets eaten midway  
                                                          > down.  Then when I have seen it on the bottom, it gets eaten.  I was  
                                                          > afraid the corys wouldn't get anything and yet I'm spiking nitrites  
                                                          > because of overfeeding?  Don't quite understand it.
                                                          >
                                                          >  TTYL
                                                          >  Mary
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > From: j.pascavage@...
                                                          > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:09:10 +0000
                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >   Hi,
                                                          >     I've kept mostly Corys', and they don't like to eat with people  
                                                          > gawking at them, so, at one point, I read about how much a fish should  
                                                          > be fed by body-weight, and thought about getting an expensive (to me)  
                                                          > microgram-scale, and portioning according to total weight. Never did  
                                                          > that. I've read consistantly, that you should feed only as much as a  
                                                          > fish will consume in three minutes. And until you get it right, siphon  
                                                          > uneaten food.
                                                          >                        Joe Pascavage
                                                          >
                                                          >
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                                                          >
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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 769 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/12/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish

                                                          It's a 29gal.  4 tetras, 7 platys and the corys.  Haven't looked this morning to see if the last cory has died.  Looked fine last night.

                                                          TTYL
                                                          Mary



                                                          If your ammonia is only showing trace amounts then I wouldn't bother with adding any ammonia removal, best to let the bacteria in your filter take care of it. you will probably find that the nitrite will settle down to 0-0.1 over the next week so your only real concern is the nitrates. Do you have any other fish in your tank? How large is your tank?

                                                          In the uk there is now a filter media that you can buy that will allow you to fully stock a brand new tank on day 1! I haven't tried it yet and I can't remember the name of it but if anyone is interested then shout and I'll look it up.

                                                          John
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: Mary Ramsower, RVT <mailto:tzuzoo@...>  
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:42 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish

                                                          Did a 30-40% water change at 4:30pm.  It's 9:41 now.  Nitrites are still registering .5 or so.  Probably better than earlier, but still purple instead of blue.  Should I do another one or wait 24 hours?

                                                          Mary

                                                          From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:42:20 -0800 (PST)
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish


                                                          i would do a 30% water change..!!

                                                          --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                          > Got 3 cory cats on Monday.  One died yesterday.
                                                          > Checked the water.  High
                                                          > Nitrites.  Just did a partial water change on
                                                          > Sunday.  Guess this is the
                                                          > spike.  How much water should I change.  10,20, 30%
                                                          > 15% today and then
                                                          > again tomorrow?  Ammonia is trace amounts.
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 770 From: John Date: 2/12/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish
                                                          Did you test the water before putting your corys in? If so what where the readings like?
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 2:01 PM
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish



                                                          It's a 29gal.  4 tetras, 7 platys and the corys.  Haven't looked this morning to see if the last cory has died.  Looked fine last night.

                                                          TTYL
                                                          Mary



                                                          If your ammonia is only showing trace amounts then I wouldn't bother with adding any ammonia removal, best to let the bacteria in your filter take care of it. you will probably find that the nitrite will settle down to 0-0.1 over the next week so your only real concern is the nitrates. Do you have any other fish in your tank? How large is your tank?

                                                          In the uk there is now a filter media that you can buy that will allow you to fully stock a brand new tank on day 1! I haven't tried it yet and I can't remember the name of it but if anyone is interested then shout and I'll look it up.

                                                          John
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: Mary Ramsower, RVT <mailto:tzuzoo@...>  
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:42 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish

                                                          Did a 30-40% water change at 4:30pm.  It's 9:41 now.  Nitrites are still registering .5 or so.  Probably better than earlier, but still purple instead of blue.  Should I do another one or wait 24 hours?

                                                          Mary

                                                          From: sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:42:20 -0800 (PST)
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]HELP ASAP - dying fish


                                                          i would do a 30% water change..!!

                                                          --- "Mary Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@...> wrote:
                                                          > Got 3 cory cats on Monday.  One died yesterday.
                                                          > Checked the water.  High
                                                          > Nitrites.  Just did a partial water change on
                                                          > Sunday.  Guess this is the
                                                          > spike.  How much water should I change.  10,20, 30%
                                                          > 15% today and then
                                                          > again tomorrow?  Ammonia is trace amounts.
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks
                                                          > Mary
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 771 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/12/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Another bites the dust
                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust The water was tested on Sunday and was negative for nitrites.  Didn't test again until yesterday and it was very high.  Corys were introduced on Monday.  Possible they were high on Monday.  No way of knowing.

                                                          Mary

                                                          From: "John" <john@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:08:59 -0000
                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust


                                                          ?
                                                          Mary did you test your water before introducing the corys? I suspect that the levels where already quite high. Fish seem to be able to adjust to their enviroment reasonably well but they don't like sudden change. It could be that the water in the tanks that they came from was different from your home setup. I would suggest that you try to get your ammonia and nitrite to 0 and your nitrates to below 30 before introducing new stock.

                                                          John
                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                          From: Mary Ramsower, RVT <mailto:tzuzoo@...>  
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:48 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust

                                                          I haven't done anything yet.  Only got the corys 2 days ago and they started dying off immediately.  Going to do another partial change now, since the nitrites are still spiked.

                                                          Mary

                                                          From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:40:33 -0500
                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust


                                                          have you tried to buy some sinking pellets specifically for the corys?  
                                                          that way you can feed less but still be sure that they're getting  
                                                          food...
                                                          amalthea
                                                          On Feb 11, 2004, at 10:36 PM, Mary Ramsower, RVT wrote:

                                                          >  The thing is, I don't really see uneaten food.  Most of it gets eaten  
                                                          > within a minute and that which does begin to sink, gets eaten midway  
                                                          > down.  Then when I have seen it on the bottom, it gets eaten.  I was  
                                                          > afraid the corys wouldn't get anything and yet I'm spiking nitrites  
                                                          > because of overfeeding?  Don't quite understand it.
                                                          >
                                                          >  TTYL
                                                          >  Mary
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > From: j.pascavage@...
                                                          > Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:09:10 +0000
                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Another bites the dust
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >   Hi,
                                                          >     I've kept mostly Corys', and they don't like to eat with people  
                                                          > gawking at them, so, at one point, I read about how much a fish should  
                                                          > be fed by body-weight, and thought about getting an expensive (to me)  
                                                          > microgram-scale, and portioning according to total weight. Never did  
                                                          > that. I've read consistantly, that you should feed only as much as a  
                                                          > fish will consume in three minutes. And until you get it right, siphon  
                                                          > uneaten food.
                                                          >                        Joe Pascavage
                                                          >
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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 772 From: Nimish Date: 2/12/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Filtration type and brand
                                                          Hi,
                                                          Well i am new to the group. will send my intro in a while.

                                                          Regarding filters, basically a Biowheel is the best in bio-filtration
                                                          for the main reason bieng that it provides ready oxygen to the
                                                          bacteria unlike the UGF or Fluidized Sand bed. but in real terms,
                                                          even a canister with biological media will be enough to maintain bio
                                                          activity for a large fish load.

                                                          a UGF is a very debated topic and its major function is biological
                                                          and secondary is mechanical which turns out to be a drawback
                                                          sometimes as it keeps storing in dirt. anothe drawback can come with
                                                          heavy root feeding plants that tend to choke the filter plates but
                                                          again it is debatable. if you have fine gravel or sand, then a UGF is
                                                          out of question, if you have a rich plant substrate, a UGF is again
                                                          out of question, if you have a basic plant setup with regular gravel,
                                                          a UGF would be a good idea, if you have heavy root feeders like valis
                                                          and large echinodorus etc, a UGF may not be recomended. i am myself a
                                                          fan of UGF but it is not feasable with every situation.

                                                          Canister filters are one of the best option as they can hold a large
                                                          verity of media and also can be cleaned without disturbing the tank.
                                                          in case of power filters, you dont really get so much freedom and
                                                          while taking it out to clean, some muck flows back in the tank. i
                                                          have also noticed that a canister lasts much longer then a power
                                                          filter between the cleaning period. also having a prefilter will make
                                                          a canister last much longer. i have had a record cleaning period of 8
                                                          months in a low stocked tank with a prefilter foam.

                                                          Having a filter larger then capacity allways helps if the filter
                                                          starts to get choked. even, having 2 filters helps a lot as it can
                                                          maintain either of the filters running if for any reason one dies
                                                          out. it also helps when you clean a filter and the cleaning reduces
                                                          the bacteria levels in the filter. many advantages in the longer run.
                                                          the only drawback in having too powerfull filtration is the water
                                                          flow. just make sure that it does not create a whirlpool and fish
                                                          like angels, goldfish, many cichlids, discus etc dont really like the
                                                          flow. i have a 1600 LPH canister filter running on a 90 gallon tank
                                                          plus a 900lph power filter. initially i had a lot of trouble
                                                          arranging the canister outflow to create minimum movement and now
                                                          things seem very well.

                                                          Regarding brand comparisons, it is a very difficult situation to list
                                                          it out as some find Fluval better then Eheim and some vice versa. too
                                                          many variables are responsible for this. considering the price
                                                          factor, a Sacem would probably win as it cost a fraction of the
                                                          Eheims and Fluval but has drawbacks like priming and hose connections
                                                          are pethetic and is a little difficult to assemble.

                                                          Hope that Helps
                                                          Nim



                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "derwag"
                                                          <derwag@y...> wrote:
                                                          > I am new to the hobby and thinking of setting up a 55 gallon
                                                          > community tank with some plants. I have received conflicting
                                                          advice
                                                          > regarding power filters vs canisters vs undergravel, etc.
                                                          >
                                                          > Do canister filters really offer the same quality of biofiltration
                                                          > as say a biowheel set up. Someone said I would need a gravel
                                                          filter
                                                          > plus biowheel. I am looking for easy maintenance/simplicity and
                                                          not
                                                          > alot of equipment within the tank, but I also want it to be well
                                                          > filtered.
                                                          >
                                                          > Does it make sense just to go up one size of filter. For instance,
                                                          > a filter rated to 75 gallons instead of one to 55? Are there any
                                                          > downsides to this?
                                                          >
                                                          > Which brand filters have the best performance in terms of clearance
                                                          > and reliability and cost over time? I have yet to find a Consumer
                                                          > Reports like site that provides good comparative numbers/info on
                                                          the
                                                          > various power and canister filter brands, does one exist?
                                                          >
                                                          > Thanks much for any info.
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 773 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/13/2004
                                                          Subject: Introduction

                                                          Hi Guys,

                                                           

                                                          I am new to this group but not new to the Hobby, My name is Nimish, 27 yr old and currently live in the UK but originally from India . I have had aquariums since I was 7 but had a decade of gap in the middle during the career development phase and have now retaken the hobby about a year and a half ago. Still in a lot of learning phase and tackling a couple of problems I get. I presently have 7 tanks in total of which 2 are 105 Us gallons (90 gallon UK ), 2 are 25 gallons, another 2 are 10 gallons and a small 5 gallon. Of all these only the 2 105 gallons and 1 25 gallon Juwel are display tanks and the others are others (quarantine, fry raising, breeding, temporary etc.)

                                                           

                                                          Way back in India I had 3 tanks, a 15 gallon, a 8 gallon and a 30 gallon (lasted only 2 days when I stupidly tried to move a half filled tank and the bottom cracked) other then this I had my 15 gallon for over 10 years with a lovely pair of goldfish that lived all along. It was a cold water tank but due to lack of knowledge it also had tropicals and various other. But now things are much clearer and so the mixing is carefully done.

                                                           

                                                          I have some older pics on http://www.nimmat.com:81/ of the 2 of my show tanks, the third larger one is still having some pending work as it is designed to be a centre table.

                                                           

                                                          Hope to share ideas and experiences with you guys.

                                                           

                                                          Nim

                                                           

                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 774 From: dtmergl Date: 2/13/2004
                                                          Subject: quick hello/intro
                                                          I joined this list not too long ago and wanted to say hello. I've
                                                          kept bettas for years but started my first community tank a few
                                                          months ago and I'm already addicted :) Right now I have:

                                                          29g Krib pair, dwarf gouramis, platys, peppered cories, queen
                                                          loaches, ghost shrimp

                                                          10g Glowlight, cardinal, and lemon tetras, zebra danios, julii
                                                          cories, ghost shrimp

                                                          6g Dwarf puffers and snails; this is also my first planted tank

                                                          2.5g Pair of very small cherry barbs

                                                          1.5g My 6 month old betta 'Jim'

                                                          Nice to talk to some other fish friends :)


                                                          Theresa
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 775 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/13/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: quick hello/intro
                                                          Hi Theresa,

                                                          Welcome to the group and look forward to sharing your
                                                          experiences and knowledge...SuNnY !

                                                          --- dtmergl <dtmergl@...> wrote:
                                                          > I joined this list not too long ago and wanted to
                                                          > say hello. I've
                                                          > kept bettas for years but started my first community
                                                          > tank a few
                                                          > months ago and I'm already addicted :) Right now I
                                                          > have:
                                                          >
                                                          > 29g Krib pair, dwarf gouramis, platys, peppered
                                                          > cories, queen
                                                          > loaches, ghost shrimp
                                                          >
                                                          > 10g Glowlight, cardinal, and lemon tetras, zebra
                                                          > danios, julii
                                                          > cories, ghost shrimp
                                                          >
                                                          > 6g Dwarf puffers and snails; this is also my first
                                                          > planted tank
                                                          >
                                                          > 2.5g Pair of very small cherry barbs
                                                          >
                                                          > 1.5g My 6 month old betta 'Jim'
                                                          >
                                                          > Nice to talk to some other fish friends :)
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Theresa
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 776 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/13/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Introduction
                                                          Hi Nim,

                                                          Welcome to the group. Even i am from India but
                                                          presently working in Osaka.

                                                          Your tank is very pretty. Can u advise what substrate
                                                          u use, any fertilizers, CO2 etc etc ??

                                                          ...SuNnY !


                                                          --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                          > Hi Guys,
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > I am new to this group but not new to the Hobby, My
                                                          > name is Nimish, 27 yr
                                                          > old and currently live in the UK but originally from
                                                          > India. I have had
                                                          > aquariums since I was 7 but had a decade of gap in
                                                          > the middle during the
                                                          > career development phase and have now retaken the
                                                          > hobby about a year and a
                                                          > half ago. Still in a lot of learning phase and
                                                          > tackling a couple of problems
                                                          > I get. I presently have 7 tanks in total of which 2
                                                          > are 105 Us gallons (90
                                                          > gallon UK), 2 are 25 gallons, another 2 are 10
                                                          > gallons and a small 5 gallon.
                                                          > Of all these only the 2 105 gallons and 1 25 gallon
                                                          > Juwel are display tanks
                                                          > and the others are others (quarantine, fry raising,
                                                          > breeding, temporary
                                                          > etc.)
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Way back in India I had 3 tanks, a 15 gallon, a 8
                                                          > gallon and a 30 gallon
                                                          > (lasted only 2 days when I stupidly tried to move a
                                                          > half filled tank and the
                                                          > bottom cracked) other then this I had my 15 gallon
                                                          > for over 10 years with a
                                                          > lovely pair of goldfish that lived all along. It was
                                                          > a cold water tank but
                                                          > due to lack of knowledge it also had tropicals and
                                                          > various other. But now
                                                          > things are much clearer and so the mixing is
                                                          > carefully done.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > I have some older pics on http://www.nimmat.com:81/
                                                          > of the 2 of my show
                                                          > tanks, the third larger one is still having some
                                                          > pending work as it is
                                                          > designed to be a centre table.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Hope to share ideas and experiences with you guys.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Nim
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >


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                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 777 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/13/2004
                                                          Subject: Fake plants?
                                                           
                                                          Hi there,
                                                           
                                                            I was just at a friends house who has 3 or 4 aquariums set up and she has it filled with silk plants that she bought at walmart in the craft section... They are not aquarium plants, just your average run of the mill fake plastic/silk plants.         It looks wonderful, but is this safe for the fish??  She just put them in a few days ago and so far has lost nothing and her water is still testing OK.    She Isn't concerned at all, but I think I would be.    Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this?   No doubt.. The tanks look gorgeous, but is it a smart move??
                                                           
                                                          Thanks so much !
                                                          Kelly
                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 778 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/13/2004
                                                          Subject: Re: Fake plants?
                                                          Attachments :
                                                            I'm not sure whether it is or is not safe ... I PERSONALLY wouldn't do it. I'd stick with plants that are specific for use with aquariums. Besides ... it's not like artificial aquarium plants are expensive! And some don't look half bad! 
                                                             
                                                             Erin
                                                            Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
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                                                            AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                             
                                                            Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                             
                                                            Date: 02/13/04 18:58:40
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Fake plants?
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            Hi there,
                                                             
                                                              I was just at a friends house who has 3 or 4 aquariums set up and she has it filled with silk plants that she bought at walmart in the craft section... They are not aquarium plants, just your average run of the mill fake plastic/silk plants.         It looks wonderful, but is this safe for the fish??  She just put them in a few days ago and so far has lost nothing and her water is still testing OK.    She Isn't concerned at all, but I think I would be.    Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this?   No doubt.. The tanks look gorgeous, but is it a smart move??
                                                             
                                                            Thanks so much !
                                                            Kelly
                                                            ____________________________________________________
                                                              IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 779 From: Sarah Date: 2/13/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Fake plants?
                                                            HI Kelly,
                                                             
                                                            I wouldn't have thought they would harm the fish, that would depend on how they were coloured and if the fact if they are left in water too long they might start to desolve.
                                                             
                                                            I am also the person that believes that a tank should be made up with more real plants then fake.
                                                             
                                                            We have only got 4 fake plants which we put into the tank because we could not get hold of nay Java moss when we had loads of babies in the main tank.
                                                             
                                                            Regards
                                                             
                                                            Sarah & Tony 
                                                             
                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                             
                                                            Date: 13/02/2004 23:58:47
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Fake plants?
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            Hi there,
                                                             
                                                              I was just at a friends house who has 3 or 4 aquariums set up and she has it filled with silk plants that she bought at walmart in the craft section... They are not aquarium plants, just your average run of the mill fake plastic/silk plants.         It looks wonderful, but is this safe for the fish??  She just put them in a few days ago and so far has lost nothing and her water is still testing OK.    She Isn't concerned at all, but I think I would be.    Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this?   No doubt.. The tanks look gorgeous, but is it a smart move??
                                                             
                                                            Thanks so much !
                                                            Kelly
                                                             
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 780 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/13/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Introduction

                                                            Hi Sunny,

                                                             

                                                            Thanks for the Welcome.

                                                            The pics shown there were with a substrate called “Aqua-grit”, it is supposed to be a porous volcanic rock based gravel but not without drawbacks. Difficult to make the plants stay in there but since I had used 4-5” of gravel, it was kind of ok. But I have now changed the system and am using a Soil substrate with a mixture of pasted Vermiculite, peat moss and sand topped with a 2-3” layer of sand. I also have a heating cable but that is a much debated issue. I don’t use any CO2 though I did try one system but did not see any major difference except fish gasping at the surface and I don’t have too high light so I scrapped it.

                                                             

                                                            I use a fertilizer called “Easylife Pro-fito” from www.easylife.nl . they are not easily available but are good enough. I did use a lot many like Leafzone and florreal etc and it basically does not make a major difference in a low light setup. They all contain more or less the same thing.

                                                             

                                                            I also use Peat filtered water to acidify and soften my tap water that is hard enough to make a spoon stand in it. PH 8.2, dGH 27 degrees. With peat I am able to get it down to PH 6.6 and dGH 18.  but it stains the water yellow which does not look that bad.

                                                             

                                                            I am yet to take some latest pics and will upload them ASAP. What is your setup like? And where in India are you from?

                                                             

                                                            Cheers,

                                                            Nim

                                                             


                                                            From: sunil kamath [mailto:sunnyvks@...]
                                                            Sent: 13 February 2004 17:17
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Introduction

                                                             

                                                            Hi Nim,

                                                            Welcome to the group. Even i am from India but
                                                            presently working in Osaka .

                                                            Your tank is very pretty. Can u advise what substrate
                                                            u use, any fertilizers, CO2 etc etc ??

                                                            ...SuNnY !


                                                            --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                            > Hi Guys,
                                                            >

                                                            >
                                                            > I am new to this group but not new to the Hobby, My
                                                            > name is Nimish, 27 yr
                                                            > old and currently live in the UK but originally from
                                                            > India . I have had
                                                            > aquariums since I was 7 but had a decade of gap in
                                                            > the middle during the
                                                            > career development phase and have now retaken the
                                                            > hobby about a year and a
                                                            > half ago. Still in a lot of learning phase and
                                                            > tackling a couple of problems
                                                            > I get. I presently have 7 tanks in total of which 2
                                                            > are 105 Us gallons (90
                                                            > gallon UK ), 2 are 25 gallons, another 2 are 10
                                                            > gallons and a small 5 gallon.
                                                            > Of all these only the 2 105 gallons and 1 25 gallon
                                                            > Juwel are display tanks
                                                            > and the others are others (quarantine, fry raising,
                                                            > breeding, temporary
                                                            > etc.)
                                                            >

                                                            >
                                                            > Way back in India I had 3 tanks, a 15 gallon, a 8
                                                            > gallon and a 30 gallon
                                                            > (lasted only 2 days when I stupidly tried to move a
                                                            > half filled tank and the
                                                            > bottom cracked) other then this I had my 15 gallon
                                                            > for over 10 years with a
                                                            > lovely pair of goldfish that lived all along. It was
                                                            > a cold water tank but
                                                            > due to lack of knowledge it also had tropicals and
                                                            > various other. But now
                                                            > things are much clearer and so the mixing is
                                                            > carefully done.
                                                            >

                                                            >
                                                            > I have some older pics on http://www.nimmat.com:81/
                                                            > of the 2 of my show
                                                            > tanks, the third larger one is still having some
                                                            > pending work as it is
                                                            > designed to be a centre table.
                                                            >

                                                            >
                                                            > Hope to share ideas and experiences with you guys.
                                                            >

                                                            >
                                                            > Nim
                                                            >

                                                            >
                                                            >


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                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 781 From: r0cks0ldier Date: 2/13/2004
                                                            Subject: Happy to announce......
                                                            I am happy to announce, I am the proud grandma of 3 (so far as I can
                                                            see anyway) baby platies! I have removed all the fish except the mom
                                                            and the algea eater from the main tank and have put them in a
                                                            temporary tank hoping it will give more of the little guys a chance
                                                            to live and grow.

                                                            My questions are: Can baby platies eat regular tropical fish food? If
                                                            not, what should I get them?

                                                            ~r0cks0ldier~
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 782 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/13/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Introduction
                                                            Hi Nim,

                                                            Wow that seems like a lot of work.

                                                            Mine is a simple 55gal planted acq. I have some photos
                                                            in the photo section.

                                                            I just have 3 tank, 5g, 20g and 55gal.

                                                            5Gal contains about 18 one month old angle frys.

                                                            20gal next batch of frys about 80plus frys with
                                                            parents. This is a bare bottom tank with the parents
                                                            and their frys.

                                                            55gal is a community tank having Angles, rasboras,
                                                            various tetras , gouramis, corys, clown loach, otos
                                                            and platys.

                                                            I am from Mysore, Karnataka !

                                                            Nice to have ur reply and look forward to your latest
                                                            photos...SuNnY !


                                                            --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                            > Hi Sunny,
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Thanks for the Welcome.
                                                            >
                                                            > The pics shown there were with a substrate called
                                                            > "Aqua-grit", it is
                                                            > supposed to be a porous volcanic rock based gravel
                                                            > but not without
                                                            > drawbacks. Difficult to make the plants stay in
                                                            > there but since I had used
                                                            > 4-5" of gravel, it was kind of ok. But I have now
                                                            > changed the system and am
                                                            > using a Soil substrate with a mixture of pasted
                                                            > Vermiculite, peat moss and
                                                            > sand topped with a 2-3" layer of sand. I also have a
                                                            > heating cable but that
                                                            > is a much debated issue. I don't use any CO2 though
                                                            > I did try one system but
                                                            > did not see any major difference except fish gasping
                                                            > at the surface and I
                                                            > don't have too high light so I scrapped it.
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > I use a fertilizer called "Easylife Pro-fito" from
                                                            > www.easylife.nl
                                                            > <http://www.easylife.nl/> . they are not easily
                                                            > available but are good
                                                            > enough. I did use a lot many like Leafzone and
                                                            > florreal etc and it basically
                                                            > does not make a major difference in a low light
                                                            > setup. They all contain more
                                                            > or less the same thing.
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > I also use Peat filtered water to acidify and soften
                                                            > my tap water that is
                                                            > hard enough to make a spoon stand in it. PH 8.2, dGH
                                                            > 27 degrees. With peat I
                                                            > am able to get it down to PH 6.6 and dGH 18. but it
                                                            > stains the water yellow
                                                            > which does not look that bad.
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > I am yet to take some latest pics and will upload
                                                            > them ASAP. What is your
                                                            > setup like? And where in India are you from?
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Cheers,
                                                            >
                                                            > Nim
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > _____
                                                            >
                                                            > From: sunil kamath [mailto:sunnyvks@...]
                                                            > Sent: 13 February 2004 17:17
                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                            > Introduction
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Hi Nim,
                                                            >
                                                            > Welcome to the group. Even i am from India but
                                                            > presently working in Osaka.
                                                            >
                                                            > Your tank is very pretty. Can u advise what
                                                            > substrate
                                                            > u use, any fertilizers, CO2 etc etc ??
                                                            >
                                                            > ...SuNnY !
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                            > > Hi Guys,
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I am new to this group but not new to the Hobby,
                                                            > My
                                                            > > name is Nimish, 27 yr
                                                            > > old and currently live in the UK but originally
                                                            > from
                                                            > > India. I have had
                                                            > > aquariums since I was 7 but had a decade of gap in
                                                            > > the middle during the
                                                            > > career development phase and have now retaken the
                                                            > > hobby about a year and a
                                                            > > half ago. Still in a lot of learning phase and
                                                            > > tackling a couple of problems
                                                            > > I get. I presently have 7 tanks in total of which
                                                            > 2
                                                            > > are 105 Us gallons (90
                                                            > > gallon UK), 2 are 25 gallons, another 2 are 10
                                                            > > gallons and a small 5 gallon.
                                                            > > Of all these only the 2 105 gallons and 1 25
                                                            > gallon
                                                            > > Juwel are display tanks
                                                            > > and the others are others (quarantine, fry
                                                            > raising,
                                                            > > breeding, temporary
                                                            > > etc.)
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Way back in India I had 3 tanks, a 15 gallon, a 8
                                                            > > gallon and a 30 gallon
                                                            > > (lasted only 2 days when I stupidly tried to move
                                                            > a
                                                            > > half filled tank and the
                                                            > > bottom cracked) other then this I had my 15 gallon
                                                            > > for over 10 years with a
                                                            > > lovely pair of goldfish that lived all along. It
                                                            > was
                                                            > > a cold water tank but
                                                            > > due to lack of knowledge it also had tropicals and
                                                            > > various other. But now
                                                            > > things are much clearer and so the mixing is
                                                            > > carefully done.
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I have some older pics on
                                                            > http://www.nimmat.com:81/
                                                            > > of the 2 of my show
                                                            > > tanks, the third larger one is still having some
                                                            > > pending work as it is
                                                            > > designed to be a centre table.
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Hope to share ideas and experiences with you guys.
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Nim
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > __________________________________
                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                            > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
                                                            > online.
                                                            > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > _____
                                                            >
                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                            >
                                                            > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                            >
                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                            >
                                                            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            >
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                                                            >
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                                                            > nsubscribe>
                                                            >
                                                            > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of
                                                            > Service.
                                                            >
                                                            >


                                                            __________________________________
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                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 783 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/13/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Happy to announce......
                                                            Congrats Grandma :P

                                                            I am not sure about feeding baby platys but i feed
                                                            baby brine shrimp to my baby angles and they love it.

                                                            So i think u can try the same for your platys as
                                                            well..

                                                            How big is ur tank which houses the babys and the mom,
                                                            no i was just wondering if its too big then they might
                                                            not be able to get the food u feed them..

                                                            Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                                            --- r0cks0ldier <genXrev@...> wrote:
                                                            > I am happy to announce, I am the proud grandma of 3
                                                            > (so far as I can
                                                            > see anyway) baby platies! I have removed all the
                                                            > fish except the mom
                                                            > and the algea eater from the main tank and have put
                                                            > them in a
                                                            > temporary tank hoping it will give more of the
                                                            > little guys a chance
                                                            > to live and grow.
                                                            >
                                                            > My questions are: Can baby platies eat regular
                                                            > tropical fish food? If
                                                            > not, what should I get them?
                                                            >
                                                            > ~r0cks0ldier~
                                                            >
                                                            >


                                                            __________________________________
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                                                            Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                                                            http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 784 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Happy to announce......

                                                            Many Congratulations! Yes, Platy fry can take in regular powdered fish food readily. But I would recommend you to either remove the fry from the tank or remove the mother as well as sooner or later she will eat the babies.

                                                             

                                                            It would be better to give the young a tank of atleast 8 gallons to grow as they do grow much faster in there then if kept in a 2-4 gallon tank. 8 gallon plastic tanks are very cheap and will be good enough.

                                                             

                                                            Also give them some floating plants to hide in. The female will again give babies in the next 20-25 days, so if you intend to save them, get a breeding trap and put the female in there on the 20th day from when the present babies were born.

                                                             

                                                            Nim

                                                             


                                                            From: r0cks0ldier [mailto:genXrev@...]
                                                            Sent: 14 February 2004 05:58
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Happy to announce......

                                                             

                                                            I am happy to announce, I am the proud grandma of 3 (so far as I can
                                                            see anyway) baby platies! I have removed all the fish except the mom
                                                            and the algea eater from the main tank and have put them in a
                                                            temporary tank hoping it will give more of the little guys a chance
                                                            to live and grow.

                                                            My questions are: Can baby platies eat regular tropical fish food? If
                                                            not, what should I get them?

                                                            ~r0cks0ldier~


                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 785 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Fake plants?

                                                            Kelly,

                                                            Plastic terrestrial plants may have colours/glue that could slowly dissolve and poison the fish slowly. It may not be apparently visible but effects may start showing up in the long run.

                                                            Best to have natural aquatic plants or at most plastic aquarium grade plants.

                                                            Nim

                                                             

                                                             


                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@...]
                                                            Sent: 13 February 2004 23:59
                                                            To: undisclosed-recipients@...
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Fake plants?

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Hi there,

                                                             

                                                              I was just at a friends house who has 3 or 4 aquariums set up and she has it filled with silk plants that she bought at walmart in the craft section... They are not aquarium plants, just your average run of the mill fake plastic/silk plants.         It looks wonderful, but is this safe for the fish??  She just put them in a few days ago and so far has lost nothing and her water is still testing OK.    She Isn't concerned at all, but I think I would be.    Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this?   No doubt.. The tanks look gorgeous, but is it a smart move??

                                                             

                                                            Thanks so much !

                                                            Kelly

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             



                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 786 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Happy to announce......
                                                            Congratulations! Baby platys can eat tropical flake food right away. But
                                                            what you need to do is put some of it into a plastic bag, and crush it up
                                                            really well. It needs to be a fine powder. Fish fry need to eat more often
                                                            than adults do, also. About two to three times a day. Here's a tip I found
                                                            when my mollies and platys had babies (at the same time, even!!) ... get a
                                                            toothpick, and dip the toothpick into the water to moisten it. Then dip the
                                                            moistened toothpick into the powdered food, and then dip that back into the
                                                            water where the babies are. That will be PLENTY of food for them.

                                                            I'm guessing that platys don't have as many fry as other livebearers. My
                                                            platy's only had two fry. (well, three, but one got eaten. OOPS!)

                                                            After about two or three weeks, the babies should be big enough to move to
                                                            the main tank. By that time, they should be big enough and fast enough to
                                                            avoid the other fish. Again, congrats!

                                                            Erin
                                                            Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                            MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                            AOL/AIM: WtchyMm

                                                            Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                            ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                            Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                            com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                            -------Original Message-------

                                                            From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Date: 02/14/04 00:58:36
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Happy to announce......

                                                            I am happy to announce, I am the proud grandma of 3 (so far as I can
                                                            see anyway) baby platies! I have removed all the fish except the mom
                                                            and the algea eater from the main tank and have put them in a
                                                            temporary tank hoping it will give more of the little guys a chance
                                                            to live and grow.

                                                            My questions are: Can baby platies eat regular tropical fish food? If
                                                            not, what should I get them?
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 787 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Happy to announce......

                                                            Erin,

                                                            Platys do have have fry in between 20-40 depending on the age of the female. But they are also faster then most other livebearers to eat up their own fry, hence very little survival rate.

                                                             

                                                            Nim

                                                             

                                                             


                                                            From: Erin Vankouwenberg [mailto:celticmommy@...]
                                                            Sent: 14 February 2004 13:12
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Happy to announce......

                                                             

                                                            Congratulations! Baby platys can eat tropical flake food right away. But
                                                            what you need to do is put some of it into a plastic bag, and crush it up
                                                            really well. It needs to be a fine powder. Fish fry need to eat more often
                                                            than adults do, also. About two to three times a day. Here's a tip I found
                                                            when my mollies and platys had babies (at the same time, even!!) ... get a
                                                            toothpick, and dip the toothpick into the water to moisten it. Then dip the
                                                            moistened toothpick into the powdered food, and then dip that back into the
                                                            water where the babies are. That will be PLENTY of food for them.

                                                            I'm guessing that platys don't have as many fry as other livebearers. My
                                                            platy's only had two fry. (well, three, but one got eaten. OOPS!)

                                                            After about two or three weeks, the babies should be big enough to move to
                                                            the main tank. By that time, they should be big enough and fast enough to
                                                            avoid the other fish. Again, congrats!

                                                            Erin
                                                            Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                            MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@...
                                                            AOL/ AIM : WtchyMm

                                                            Celtic Parents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                            ~Lair of the Anime Witches ~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                            Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents
                                                            com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                            -------Original Message-------

                                                            From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Date: 02/14/04 00:58:36
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Happy to announce......

                                                            I am happy to announce, I am the proud grandma of 3 (so far as I can
                                                            see anyway) baby platies! I have removed all the fish except the mom
                                                            and the algea eater from the main tank and have put them in a
                                                            temporary tank hoping it will give more of the little guys a chance
                                                            to live and grow.

                                                            My questions are: Can baby platies eat regular tropical fish food? If
                                                            not, what should I get them?


                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 788 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Happy to announce......
                                                            H'lo,
                                                            And my Plattys had loads of fry, and as for safety of fry, I had Java-Moss growing opposite outflows of a hang-on-filter, and an under-gravel-filter-tube, in the rear-left of a 20 or 30 gallon high tank. There were tank ambiences/ornaments called 'caves' that could be attached by suction-cups to the inside glass that were placed on the left-rear corners, onto which I hung the Java-Moss. The Moss seemed to really like the location and grew into a complex, lacy three-dimensional network that served as an excellent place for the fry to locate, and the lacy system of plant growth would not permit larger fish to use them as a food source. The fry seemed to instinctively stay in the Java Moss. If you don't do the aforementioned, there's something that resembles green-grass, the kind of stuff that you could find in Easter Baskets, that can be used in place of live Moss, and I believe it's sold in some fish-supply stores for that purpose. But if you have only two fry, you may not want to risk these measures.
                                                            Joe Pascavage
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 789 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Fake plants?
                                                            Personally I wouldn't buy any plants not specifically ok'd for aquariums but there are aquarium-safe silk plants available.
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            Theresa
                                                             
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                            Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:58 PM
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Fake plants?

                                                             
                                                             
                                                            Hi there,
                                                             
                                                              I was just at a friends house who has 3 or 4 aquariums set up and she has it filled with silk plants that she bought at walmart in the craft section... They are not aquarium plants, just your average run of the mill fake plastic/silk plants.         It looks wonderful, but is this safe for the fish??  She just put them in a few days ago and so far has lost nothing and her water is still testing OK.    She Isn't concerned at all, but I think I would be.    Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this?   No doubt.. The tanks look gorgeous, but is it a smart move??
                                                             
                                                            Thanks so much !
                                                            Kelly


                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 790 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Fake plants?
                                                             Thanks so much to all that replied to my questions.... As nice as her tank looks and as cheap as her plants were.... I think that I will stick to plants made just for aquariums...
                                                             
                                                            hugs,
                                                                Kelly
                                                             
                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                             
                                                            Date: 02/14/04 18:31:10
                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Fake plants?
                                                             
                                                            Personally I wouldn't buy any plants not specifically ok'd for aquariums but there are aquarium-safe silk plants available.
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            Theresa
                                                             
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                            Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:58 PM
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Fake plants?
                                                             
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            Hi there,
                                                             
                                                              I was just at a friends house who has 3 or 4 aquariums set up and she has it filled with silk plants that she bought at walmart in the craft section... They are not aquarium plants, just your average run of the mill fake plastic/silk plants.         It looks wonderful, but is this safe for the fish??  She just put them in a few days ago and so far has lost nothing and her water is still testing OK.    She Isn't concerned at all, but I think I would be.    Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this?   No doubt.. The tanks look gorgeous, but is it a smart move??
                                                             
                                                            Thanks so much !
                                                            Kelly

                                                             
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 791 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: missing eyes.........
                                                             
                                                            Hi there,
                                                             
                                                               I put 25 of my baby mollies in our somewhat empty 55 gallon community tank 2 days ago, to make room for more (smaller) babies in one of my baby tanks. (They are at least an inch long, and going to the pet store on Monday)... HOWEVER...... Since placing them in the community tank, 3 of them are missing one eye.  The only other things fish that are in this tank are 1 pearl gourami ( who I thought only pestered my Blue gourami), 1 blue gourami, 2 Head and tail lights ( not sure of their real name) 2 albino catfish, 1 silver dollar,  one black ghost knife  and a tri-colored shark......  I am guessing that it is the pearl gourami, as he seems to be the only "bully" in the tank, However I have not seen him go near the new fish, much less after them.  Do you think that he is my culprit or do I have another somewhat aggressive fish in there that I am not aware of?? 
                                                             
                                                            I was sure to move all plants, rocks etc around before moving the mollies so it was a new home to all of them and that has always worked for me.
                                                             
                                                            HELP...... I need some of these Mollies in one piece come Monday when the owner is expecting them.....
                                                             
                                                            Kelly
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 792 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: missing eyes.........

                                                            Kelly,

                                                            Personally, I would not assume gouramis to just peck on molly fry so lightly that they may lose only an eye. Things like ghost knife are capable of eating entire molly fry depending on size. I don’t know what Albino catfish but if it is not a plec then it could be a culprit. However I feel that it is the work of tetras rather then anything else. I have had neon tetras do similar stuff to almost similar sized rainbow fish fry and molly fry are even slower. Glowlights may be the ones. Can you specify a little more detail on the size of each? Including the fry you put in.

                                                            Also, are you sure they lost an eye, it could be fungus that has made the eye invisible as I have seen with kissing gourami sometime back (not in my tank but in someone elses)

                                                            Nim

                                                             


                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 00:04
                                                            To: undisclosed-recipients@...
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] missing eyes.........

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Hi there,

                                                             

                                                               I put 25 of my baby mollies in our somewhat empty 55 gallon community tank 2 days ago, to make room for more (smaller) babies in one of my baby tanks. (They are at least an inch long, and going to the pet store on Monday)... HOWEVER...... Since placing them in the community tank, 3 of them are missing one eye.  The only other things fish that are in this tank are 1 pearl gourami ( who I thought only pestered my Blue gourami), 1 blue gourami, 2 Head and tail lights ( not sure of their real name) 2 albino catfish, 1 silver dollar,  one black ghost knife  and a tri-colored shark......  I am guessing that it is the pearl gourami, as he seems to be the only "bully" in the tank, However I have not seen him go near the new fish, much less after them.  Do you think that he is my culprit or do I have another somewhat aggressive fish in there that I am not aware of?? 

                                                             

                                                            I was sure to move all plants, rocks etc around before moving the mollies so it was a new home to all of them and that has always worked for me.

                                                             

                                                            HELP...... I need some of these Mollies in one piece come Monday when the owner is expecting them.....

                                                             

                                                            Kelly

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 793 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
                                                             Hi Nim,
                                                             
                                                                The "babies" as I call them are all between 2"-3" long and are 4 months old and ready to go to the pet store to be sold. So not really babies, but to me they are..... LOL
                                                            pearl gourami is about 4" long,
                                                            blue gourami 3" long
                                                            Ghost knife is about 6" long
                                                            Albino catfish are just an inch long if that 
                                                             
                                                            Are the head and tail lights tetra's?  They are about 1-2" long and seem to just keep to each other and dash all over the tank NON stop. I have never known their real name.
                                                             
                                                            and ohhh YES... I am very sure that they are missing an eye!!  I have an a red striped tetra that is not even an inch long and he/she ended up with an eye gone about a month ago.
                                                             
                                                            Needless to say, I have an eye theif in the tank..... LOL
                                                             
                                                            Hugs,
                                                               Kelly 
                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                             
                                                            Date: 02/14/04 19:35:26
                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] missing eyes.........
                                                             

                                                            Kelly,

                                                            Personally, I would not assume gouramis to just peck on molly fry so lightly that they may lose only an eye. Things like ghost knife are capable of eating entire molly fry depending on size. I don’t know what Albino catfish but if it is not a plec then it could be a culprit. However I feel that it is the work of tetras rather then anything else. I have had neon tetras do similar stuff to almost similar sized rainbow fish fry and molly fry are even slower. Glowlights may be the ones. Can you specify a little more detail on the size of each? Including the fry you put in.

                                                            Also, are you sure they lost an eye, it could be fungus that has made the eye invisible as I have seen with kissing gourami sometime back (not in my tank but in someone elses)

                                                            Nim

                                                             


                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 00:04
                                                            To: undisclosed-recipients@...
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] missing eyes.........

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Hi there,

                                                             

                                                               I put 25 of my baby mollies in our somewhat empty 55 gallon community tank 2 days ago, to make room for more (smaller) babies in one of my baby tanks. (They are at least an inch long, and going to the pet store on Monday)... HOWEVER...... Since placing them in the community tank, 3 of them are missing one eye.  The only other things fish that are in this tank are 1 pearl gourami ( who I thought only pestered my Blue gourami), 1 blue gourami, 2 Head and tail lights ( not sure of their real name) 2 albino catfish, 1 silver dollar,  one black ghost knife  and a tri-colored shark......  I am guessing that it is the pearl gourami, as he seems to be the only "bully" in the tank, However I have not seen him go near the new fish, much less after them.  Do you think that he is my culprit or do I have another somewhat aggressive fish in there that I am not aware of?? 

                                                             

                                                            I was sure to move all plants, rocks etc around before moving the mollies so it was a new home to all of them and that has always worked for me.

                                                             

                                                            HELP...... I need some of these Mollies in one piece come Monday when the owner is expecting them.....

                                                             

                                                            Kelly

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 794 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/14/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
                                                            Hi,
                                                            If you're talking about albino 'CORYDORA' catfish, I'm under the impression, after having Corys' for about 15 years, that they would'nt be the source of missing eyes.
                                                            Joe Pascavage
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 795 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: missing eyes.........

                                                            Kelly,

                                                            Yes, the head & tail light are most probably tetra (Hemigrammus ocellifer) and are capable of such nasty tasks. The albino catfish I believe could be a Corydora or a albino bristle nose (ancistrus) and in either case they are the least harmful fish. Never kept ghost knife so I cant suggest if it can be a culprit or not, but gouramis if attack would cause more damage then just an eye but cannot be ruled out either. It seems that you have 2 males in gouramis. One of each pearl and blue and that’s the reason they have been pecking on each other. Gouramis are really not aggressive towards other fish unless when breeding. I would assume the tetras to be in the top list of the culprits.

                                                            Nim

                                                             


                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 01:35
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] missing eyes.........

                                                             

                                                             Hi Nim,

                                                             

                                                                The "babies" as I call them are all between 2"-3" long and are 4 months old and ready to go to the pet store to be sold. So not really babies, but to me they are..... LOL

                                                            pearl gourami is about 4" long,

                                                            blue gourami 3" long

                                                            Ghost knife is about 6" long

                                                            Albino catfish are just an inch long if that 

                                                             

                                                            Are the head and tail lights tetra's?  They are about 1-2" long and seem to just keep to each other and dash all over the tank NON stop. I have never known their real name.

                                                             

                                                            and ohhh YES... I am very sure that they are missing an eye!!  I have an a red striped tetra that is not even an inch long and he/she ended up with an eye gone about a month ago.

                                                             

                                                            Needless to say, I have an eye theif in the tank..... LOL

                                                             

                                                            Hugs,

                                                               Kelly 

                                                            -------Original Message-------

                                                             

                                                            Date: 02/14/04 19:35:26

                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] missing eyes.........

                                                             

                                                            Kelly,

                                                            Personally, I would not assume gouramis to just peck on molly fry so lightly that they may lose only an eye. Things like ghost knife are capable of eating entire molly fry depending on size. I don’t know what Albino catfish but if it is not a plec then it could be a culprit. However I feel that it is the work of tetras rather then anything else. I have had neon tetras do similar stuff to almost similar sized rainbow fish fry and molly fry are even slower. Glowlights may be the ones. Can you specify a little more detail on the size of each? Including the fry you put in.

                                                            Also, are you sure they lost an eye, it could be fungus that has made the eye invisible as I have seen with kissing gourami sometime back (not in my tank but in someone elses)

                                                            Nim

                                                             


                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 00:04
                                                            To: undisclosed-recipients@...
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] missing eyes.........

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Hi there,

                                                             

                                                               I put 25 of my baby mollies in our somewhat empty 55 gallon community tank 2 days ago, to make room for more (smaller) babies in one of my baby tanks. (They are at least an inch long, and going to the pet store on Monday)... HOWEVER...... Since placing them in the community tank, 3 of them are missing one eye.  The only other things fish that are in this tank are 1 pearl gourami ( who I thought only pestered my Blue gourami), 1 blue gourami, 2 Head and tail lights ( not sure of their real name) 2 albino catfish, 1 silver dollar,  one black ghost knife  and a tri-colored shark......  I am guessing that it is the pearl gourami, as he seems to be the only "bully" in the tank, However I have not seen him go near the new fish, much less after them.  Do you think that he is my culprit or do I have another somewhat aggressive fish in there that I am not aware of?? 

                                                             

                                                            I was sure to move all plants, rocks etc around before moving the mollies so it was a new home to all of them and that has always worked for me.

                                                             

                                                            HELP...... I need some of these Mollies in one piece come Monday when the owner is expecting them.....

                                                             

                                                            Kelly

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 796 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
                                                            My money is on the Black ghost Knife.... they become very aggressive
                                                            and hungry when slightly older... We only keep juvenile BGKN in with
                                                            small fish otherwise we lose them! :)

                                                            A


                                                            On 15 Feb 2004, at 00:03, ~~Kelly~~ wrote:

                                                            >  
                                                            > Hi there,
                                                            >  
                                                            >    I put 25 of my baby mollies in our somewhat empty 55 gallon
                                                            > community tank 2 days ago, to make room for more (smaller) babies in
                                                            > one of my baby tanks. (They are at least an inch long, and going to
                                                            > the pet store on Monday)... HOWEVER...... Since placing them in the
                                                            > community tank, 3 of them are missing one eye.  The only other things
                                                            > fish that are in this tank are 1 pearl gourami ( who I thought only
                                                            > pestered my Blue gourami), 1 blue gourami, 2 Head and tail lights (
                                                            > not sure of their real name) 2 albino catfish, 1 silver dollar,  one
                                                            > black ghost knife  and a tri-colored shark......  I am guessing that
                                                            > it is the pearl gourami, as he seems to be the only "bully" in the
                                                            > tank, However I have not seen him go near the new fish, much less
                                                            > after them.  Do you think that he is my culprit or do I have another
                                                            > somewhat aggressive fish in there that I am not aware of?? 
                                                            >  
                                                            > I was sure to move all plants, rocks etc around before moving the
                                                            > mollies so it was a new home to all of them and that has always worked
                                                            > for me.
                                                            >  
                                                            > HELP...... I need some of these Mollies in one piece come Monday when
                                                            > the owner is expecting them.....
                                                            >  
                                                            > Kelly
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                            >
                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                            >  
                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                            >  
                                                            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                            > Service.
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 797 From: Anatoli Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: tail paralized????
                                                            omg one of my male guppies is sick, his tail looks weird, its like
                                                            shrivelled up and lookes paralized, the rest of the body is healthy
                                                            and he works his otehr fins fine and eats willingly but his tail
                                                            looks like its paralized somewhat and its shrivelling up.... anyone
                                                            knows what that is?

                                                            i put him in a separate tank for now, but are the rest of my fish in
                                                            danger?

                                                            thanks for any help
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 798 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: tail paralized????
                                                            Are you sure it's shrivelling, and not apparently being eaten away by fungus or bacteria? Drastic temperature and PH-changes, along with ammonia and Nitrite increase can weaken the fish, destroy the slime-coat and open the animal to attack by microorganisms. Other things can cause problems with the tail-fin, but I thing the aforementioned are the most frequent.
                                                            Joe Pascavage
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 799 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Update on the tank
                                                            Well, my tank has been in nitrite spike crisis for a week now. Still not
                                                            going down. Today I put in more Stress Zyme, a Tbs. of aquarium salt/5
                                                            gal. to help break down the nitrites. When water was tested today, Ammonia
                                                            was high, also. The last cory is hanging on, but I can see where his gills
                                                            are burned from the nitrite. Now several platys are showing the same sign.
                                                            Hope that salt works fast. Anyone know how fast it will begin reducing the
                                                            nitrites?

                                                            The lfs recommended only feeding the fish every other day.

                                                            TTYL
                                                            Mary
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 800 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Fake plants?
                                                            --
                                                            Placing anything decorative in an aquarium containing fish, (or
                                                            anything that is intended to grow along natural-lines), that is not
                                                            intended for life-support or is not known to be harmless for life-
                                                            support, is biased towards the decorative, and not the creatures
                                                            intended (if that's the case) to healthfully live there.

                                                            - In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Dan & Theresa"
                                                            <dtmergl@c...> wrote:
                                                            > Personally I wouldn't buy any plants not specifically ok'd for
                                                            aquariums but there are aquarium-safe silk plants available.
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Theresa
                                                            >
                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                            > From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                            > To: undisclosed-recipients@m...
                                                            > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 6:58 PM
                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Fake plants?
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Hi there,
                                                            >
                                                            > I was just at a friends house who has 3 or 4 aquariums
                                                            set up and she has it filled with silk plants that she bought at
                                                            walmart in the craft section... They are not aquarium plants, just
                                                            your average run of the mill fake plastic/silk plants. It
                                                            looks wonderful, but is this safe for the fish?? She just put them
                                                            in a few days ago and so far has lost nothing and her water is still
                                                            testing OK. She Isn't concerned at all, but I think I would be.
                                                            Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this? No doubt..
                                                            The tanks look gorgeous, but is it a smart move??
                                                            >
                                                            > Thanks so much !
                                                            > Kelly
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 801 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Update on the tank

                                                            Mary,

                                                             

                                                            Burns are caused by Ammonia. Nitrite has internal effects. Do a 80% water change with stresscoat added and some salt. I would normally recommend stop feeding the fish for 3-4 days but since they will be already very weak, it would be a drastic step.

                                                             

                                                            Perform a 80% water change and try to keep the PH and temperature of the fresh water as similar as possible to tank water. Temperature is more critical, though fish can handle a PH swing better then a temperature swing and ammonia/nitrites. This is purely on my personal experience.

                                                             

                                                            Also, if you get ammonia peaks after 2 days, follow another 50% water change until things stabilize. And yes, reduce the feeding to every other day.

                                                             

                                                            Best of luck.

                                                            Nim

                                                            Ps: adding stress zyme or other live bacteria may not help as sometimes excess ammonia inhibits denitrifying bacteria and vice versa.

                                                             


                                                            From: Mary Ramsower, RVT [mailto:tzuzoo@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 19:35
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank

                                                             

                                                            Well, my tank has been in nitrite spike crisis for a week now.  Still not
                                                            going down.  Today I put in more Stress Zyme,  a Tbs. of aquarium salt/5
                                                            gal. to help break down the nitrites.  When water was tested today, Ammonia
                                                            was high, also.  The last cory is hanging on, but I can see where his gills
                                                            are burned from the nitrite.  Now several platys are showing the same sign.
                                                            Hope that salt works fast.  Anyone know how fast it will begin reducing the
                                                            nitrites?

                                                            The lfs recommended only feeding the fish every other day.

                                                            TTYL
                                                            Mary

                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 802 From: better_bettas Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Site Newly Renovated !
                                                            The site has been newly renovated and will be updated within the
                                                            next week with stock as we are awaiting 400-500 fish this Thursday,
                                                            Feb 18, 2004 ! Anyone interested in stock can email me for a list
                                                            of what's going to be available !

                                                            http://www.bluebettausa.com
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 803 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Update on the tank
                                                            Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank Thanks.  I'll do another water change today.  I already put in the salt.  Should I add more salt after I add the new water?

                                                            TTYL
                                                            Mary

                                                            From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                                                            Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:43:31 -0000
                                                            To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank


                                                            Mary,



                                                            Burns are caused by Ammonia. Nitrite has internal effects. Do a 80% water change with stresscoat added and some salt. I would normally recommend stop feeding the fish for 3-4 days but since they will be already very weak, it would be a drastic step.



                                                            Perform a 80% water change and try to keep the PH and temperature of the fresh water as similar as possible to tank water. Temperature is more critical, though fish can handle a PH swing better then a temperature swing and ammonia/nitrites. This is purely on my personal experience.



                                                            Also, if you get ammonia peaks after 2 days, follow another 50% water change until things stabilize. And yes, reduce the feeding to every other day.



                                                            Best of luck.

                                                            Nim

                                                            Ps: adding stress zyme or other live bacteria may not help as sometimes excess ammonia inhibits denitrifying bacteria and vice versa.




                                                            From: Mary Ramsower, RVT [mailto:tzuzoo@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 19:35
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank



                                                            Well, my tank has been in nitrite spike crisis for a week now. Still not
                                                            going down.  Today I put in more Stress Zyme,  a Tbs. of aquarium salt/5
                                                            gal. to help break down the nitrites.  When water was tested today, Ammonia
                                                            was high, also.  The last cory is hanging on, but I can see where his gills
                                                            are burned from the nitrite.  Now several platys are showing the same sign.
                                                            Hope that salt works fast.  Anyone know how fast it will begin reducing the
                                                            nitrites?

                                                            The lfs recommended only feeding the fish every other day.

                                                            TTYL
                                                            Mary




                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                            • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                            • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                            • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                            • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 804 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Update on the tank
                                                            Hi,
                                                            The water change and salt additive are for the fish's health, and keeping the sequential waters equalibriated is the proceedure for reducing shock, and introducing chemical stability. The replacement water should be the same salt concentration before it's added to the aquarium. I mix mine in plastic buckets that I keep for aquarium use.
                                                            Joe Pascavage
                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 805 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Update on the tank
                                                            Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank

                                                            Yes Mary,

                                                            When you change water, the salt also goes with it. If you added 1tsp salt per 5 gallon of water, then on doing a water change add another 1tsp per gallon of salt per the volume of water you changed. Eg. In a 20 gallon tank, you would add 4 tsp of salt, on changing 80% water(16 gallons) add 3tsp salt to the tank.

                                                            Also, if you can get hold of stuff like Algone or API Nitrazorb, this will help bring down ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels but don’t make it a routine to use these things. Use them only till things stabilize.

                                                            Nim

                                                             

                                                             


                                                            From: Mary Ramsower, RVT [mailto:tzuzoo@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 21:21
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank

                                                             

                                                            Thanks.  I'll do another water change today.  I already put in the salt.  Should I add more salt after I add the new water?

                                                            TTYL
                                                            Mary


                                                            From: " Nimish Mathur " <nimmat4@...>
                                                            Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:43:31 -0000
                                                            To: < FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com >
                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank

                                                             

                                                            Mary,



                                                            Burns are caused by Ammonia. Nitrite has internal effects. Do a 80% water change with stresscoat added and some salt. I would normally recommend stop feeding the fish for 3-4 days but since they will be already very weak, it would be a drastic step.



                                                            Perform a 80% water change and try to keep the PH and temperature of the fresh water as similar as possible to tank water. Temperature is more critical, though fish can handle a PH swing better then a temperature swing and ammonia/nitrites. This is purely on my personal experience.



                                                            Also, if you get ammonia peaks after 2 days, follow another 50% water change until things stabilize. And yes, reduce the feeding to every other day.



                                                            Best of luck.

                                                            Nim

                                                            Ps: adding stress zyme or other live bacteria may not help as sometimes excess ammonia inhibits denitrifying bacteria and vice versa.



                                                            From: Mary Ramsower, RVT [mailto:tzuzoo@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 19:35
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank



                                                            Well, my tank has been in nitrite spike crisis for a week now. Still not
                                                            going down.  Today I put in more Stress Zyme,  a Tbs. of aquarium salt/5
                                                            gal. to help break down the nitrites.  When water was tested today, Ammonia
                                                            was high, also.  The last cory is hanging on, but I can see where his gills
                                                            are burned from the nitrite.  Now several platys are showing the same sign.
                                                            Hope that salt works fast.  Anyone know how fast it will begin reducing the
                                                            nitrites?

                                                            The lfs recommended only feeding the fish every other day.

                                                            TTYL
                                                            Mary



                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                            • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                            • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                            •  
                                                            • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                            • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                            •  
                                                            • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

                                                             




                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 806 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Update on the tank

                                                            I agree. I use 210 Litre water Butts to store, age and chemically condition the water with all the additives and filter media etc. Many hardy fish do not respond well to sudden chemical water changes. Doing small changes is easy and does not need hard work, but any change more the 30% needs water to be pre-treated to maintain the PH and temperature. GH is not really an issue as to what I have seen, and salinity if not 100% changes also should be ok. But PH and Temperature are the most important things to maintain in equilibrium with the tank water.

                                                            Nim

                                                             

                                                             


                                                            From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 21:30
                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank

                                                             

                                                            Hi,
                                                               The water change and salt additive are for the fish's health, and keeping the sequential waters equalibriated is the proceedure for reducing shock, and introducing chemical stability. The replacement water should be the same salt concentration before it's added to the aquarium. I mix mine in plastic buckets that I keep for aquarium use.
                                                                                  Joe Pascavage


                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 807 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/15/2004
                                                            Subject: Re: Update on the tank
                                                            Attachments :
                                                               Mary, if you do add new salt, add ONLY ENOUGH FOR THE NEW WATER. Salt does not evaporate.
                                                               
                                                               Erin
                                                              Yahoo! messenger: vampifan22
                                                              MSN messenger(no email!): witchywmn42@aol.com
                                                              AOL/AIM: WtchyMm
                                                               
                                                              Tanin and CelticMommy's Warhammer Site http://www.celticparents.com/warhammer/index1.html
                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                               
                                                              Date: 02/15/04 16:18:54
                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank
                                                               
                                                              Thanks.  I'll do another water change today.  I already put in the salt.  Should I add more salt after I add the new water?

                                                              TTYL
                                                              Mary

                                                              From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@yahoo.co.uk>
                                                              Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:43:31 -0000
                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                              Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank


                                                              Mary,



                                                              Burns are caused by Ammonia. Nitrite has internal effects. Do a 80% water change with stresscoat added and some salt. I would normally recommend stop feeding the fish for 3-4 days but since they will be already very weak, it would be a drastic step.



                                                              Perform a 80% water change and try to keep the PH and temperature of the fresh water as similar as possible to tank water. Temperature is more critical, though fish can handle a PH swing better then a temperature swing and ammonia/nitrites. This is purely on my personal experience.



                                                              Also, if you get ammonia peaks after 2 days, follow another 50% water change until things stabilize. And yes, reduce the feeding to every other day.



                                                              Best of luck.

                                                              Nim

                                                              Ps: adding stress zyme or other live bacteria may not help as sometimes excess ammonia inhibits denitrifying bacteria and vice versa.




                                                              From: Mary Ramsower, RVT [mailto:tzuzoo@sbcglobal.net]
                                                              Sent: 15 February 2004 19:35
                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank



                                                              Well, my tank has been in nitrite spike crisis for a week now. Still not
                                                              going down.  Today I put in more Stress Zyme,  a Tbs. of aquarium salt/5
                                                              gal. to help break down the nitrites.  When water was tested today, Ammonia
                                                              was high, also.  The last cory is hanging on, but I can see where his gills
                                                              are burned from the nitrite.  Now several platys are showing the same sign.
                                                              Hope that salt works fast.  Anyone know how fast it will begin reducing the
                                                              nitrites?

                                                              The lfs recommended only feeding the fish every other day.

                                                              TTYL
                                                              Mary




                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                              • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                              • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                              • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                              • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                              • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



                                                               
                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 808 From: Ken Grolle Date: 2/15/2004
                                                              Subject: A question for plant people
                                                              I recently had to move my tank out of the house while we
                                                              were "tented" for termites. WHAT A DISASTER!!! We have a heavily
                                                              planted tank (see Photo section under "Mike's plants and fish")and
                                                              the exterminators thought it would be OK to take the fish out while
                                                              leaving the plants during treatment. I thought otherwise, thinking
                                                              that the poisons would likely kill the worms and bacteria in the
                                                              gravel and throw the whole tank out of balance. So, I spent 5 hours
                                                              moving EVERYTHING in buckets to another house for the weekend, set
                                                              it up there, and then back. No water was changed. I kept it all as
                                                              constant as I could. Nothing died except two Kili's that committed
                                                              suicide...those fish can aim their jumps. What I got was an
                                                              explosion of long hair algae. Never expected that...but even if I
                                                              did I guess I had no choice. I was surprized by this because it was
                                                              only a rearrangement of what was already in the tank. But it threw
                                                              the whole tank way off. Any ideas as to what happens under these
                                                              circumstances?
                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 809 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/15/2004
                                                              Subject: Re: A question for plant people
                                                              Hi,
                                                              My guess is that you moved the material located between the bits of gravel by sloshing, or whatever, or if you removed the gravel without cleaning it thoroughly, it redistributed what was stabilized over the years/months/or whatever, and released nitrates into the water.
                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 810 From: John Date: 2/16/2004
                                                              Subject: Re: missing eyes.........
                                                              I have to agree with that. I have kept corys for quite some time and they have never bullied / attacked or even looked at another fish!
                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                              Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:53 AM
                                                              Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] missing eyes.........

                                                              Hi,
                                                                If you're talking about albino 'CORYDORA' catfish, I'm under the impression, after having Corys' for about 15 years, that they would'nt be the source of missing eyes.
                                                                                         Joe Pascavage

                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 811 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/16/2004
                                                              Subject: Chichlids
                                                              Attachments :
                                                                 Hi there,   We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in the past can give me any pointers or suggestions.  I have done alot of reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on experience for information.
                                                                 
                                                                Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping them.
                                                                 
                                                                Thank you... Kelly
                                                                 
                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 812 From: John Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                Subject: Re: Chichlids
                                                                Attachments :
                                                                  HI Kelly
                                                                   
                                                                  What sort of Cichlids are you thinking of keeping? e.g. South American or African? As I'm sure you will have read it is important that you only keep cichlids from one group together. Also having decided on which group have you decided on any species? Bare in mind that Discus, Angel Fish, Rams, Oscars, etc. are all Cichlids.
                                                                   
                                                                  I have at the moment a 90 litre tank with a Red Tiger Oscar (5") an Angel Fish (4") and a pair of Dwarf Rams (1")
                                                                   
                                                                  They all seem to live together quite happily but the Oscar can get aggressive if not fed propally, oh and he can really eat!!!!
                                                                   
                                                                   
                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                  From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                  Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 1:14 PM
                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids

                                                                   Hi there,   We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in the past can give me any pointers or suggestions.  I have done alot of reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on experience for information.
                                                                   
                                                                  Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping them.
                                                                   
                                                                  Thank you... Kelly
                                                                   
                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 813 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                  Subject: Re: Chichlids
                                                                  Attachments :

                                                                    Hi Kelly,

                                                                    It all really depends on what kind of water you get in your tap. If you get hard alkaline water, then for a 29 gallon, tanganyikan cichlids would be a good choice. They preffer sandy bottom and lots of rocks and caves. Malawis would be ok, but your tank is too small to house them. But in a 100 gallon tank or above, Malawis can compete with any reef aquarium in looks.

                                                                    If you get soft water (acidic/alkaline/nutral) you can be lucky enough to house south American dwarf cichlids. Papilochromis, apsitogrammas etc. . if you have alkaline soft water, you may have to use Peat to acidify the water as the fish preffer soft acidic water. Peat content in the water will make them feel at home but will also slightly stain the water brown. These fish needs lots of rocks as well and will be happy with plants as well.

                                                                    If you get Moderatly soft (upto 15dGH) and PH nutral water, you can go for central American cichlids, but they get very large. Things like Severum, Chromides (asian cichlid) etc will remain smaller then most central American cichlids but a 29 gallon tank would really not be a home for these.

                                                                    Why I specifically stressed on your tap water is to create a minimum effort environment for you. Eg. In a region of hard alkaline water, you may need to invest in a RO unit to keep South American cichlids and discuss, where as for keeping African species you really need not do anything other then water conditioners.

                                                                    Similarly, in a soft acidic water area, you will have to chemically adjust the water to suit African Cichlids.

                                                                    Also keep in mind that cichlids are territorial and aggressive, so a 29 gallon tank will be small for many species but good enough for South American cichlids and many Tanganyikans.

                                                                    If you need more suggestions on fish, do let us know your water parameters and we can suggest lots of fish that can be kept.

                                                                    Nim

                                                                     


                                                                    From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@runbox.com]
                                                                    Sent: 16 February 2004 13:14
                                                                    To: undisclosed-recipients@ms-smtp-02.nyroc.rr.com
                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids

                                                                     

                                                                     Hi there,   We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in the past can give me any pointers or suggestions.  I have done alot of reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on experience for information.

                                                                     

                                                                    Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping them.

                                                                     

                                                                    Thank you... Kelly

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 814 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                    Subject: Re: Cichlids
                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                       Hi John.      
                                                                       
                                                                             I was planning on African Cichlids. No Discus, angels etc.   I have found these to be the brightest colored fish, and the closest to pretty as you can get without going salt water...  
                                                                       
                                                                      Kelly
                                                                       
                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                       
                                                                      Date: 02/16/04 08:23:31
                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids
                                                                       
                                                                      HI Kelly
                                                                       
                                                                      What sort of Cichlids are you thinking of keeping? e.g. South American or African? As I'm sure you will have read it is important that you only keep cichlids from one group together. Also having decided on which group have you decided on any species? Bare in mind that Discus, Angel Fish, Rams, Oscars, etc. are all Cichlids.
                                                                       
                                                                      I have at the moment a 90 litre tank with a Red Tiger Oscar (5") an Angel Fish (4") and a pair of Dwarf Rams (1")
                                                                       
                                                                      They all seem to live together quite happily but the Oscar can get aggressive if not fed propally, oh and he can really eat!!!!
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                      From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                      Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 1:14 PM
                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids

                                                                       Hi there,   We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in the past can give me any pointers or suggestions.  I have done alot of reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on experience for information.
                                                                       
                                                                      Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping them.
                                                                       
                                                                      Thank you... Kelly
                                                                       

                                                                       
                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 815 From: John Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                      Subject: Re: Cichlids
                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                        good choice!  I suggets you read the reply from Nimish regarding Water conditions. It is possible to make any type of water for any type of fish by using a combo of R/O water and the appropriate additives, however it is a lot easier to go with the type of water in your area. As Nimish says, if you can let us know what PH, GH, KH , etc. your water is perhaps some suggestions can be made.
                                                                         
                                                                        John
                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                        Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 3:07 PM
                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Cichlids

                                                                         Hi John.      
                                                                         
                                                                               I was planning on African Cichlids. No Discus, angels etc.   I have found these to be the brightest colored fish, and the closest to pretty as you can get without going salt water...  
                                                                         
                                                                        Kelly
                                                                         
                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                         
                                                                        Date: 02/16/04 08:23:31
                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids
                                                                         
                                                                        HI Kelly
                                                                         
                                                                        What sort of Cichlids are you thinking of keeping? e.g. South American or African? As I'm sure you will have read it is important that you only keep cichlids from one group together. Also having decided on which group have you decided on any species? Bare in mind that Discus, Angel Fish, Rams, Oscars, etc. are all Cichlids.
                                                                         
                                                                        I have at the moment a 90 litre tank with a Red Tiger Oscar (5") an Angel Fish (4") and a pair of Dwarf Rams (1")
                                                                         
                                                                        They all seem to live together quite happily but the Oscar can get aggressive if not fed propally, oh and he can really eat!!!!
                                                                         
                                                                         
                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                        From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                        Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 1:14 PM
                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids

                                                                         Hi there,   We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in the past can give me any pointers or suggestions.  I have done alot of reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on experience for information.
                                                                         
                                                                        Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping them.
                                                                         
                                                                        Thank you... Kelly
                                                                         

                                                                         
                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 816 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                        Subject: Re: Cichlids
                                                                        Attachments :

                                                                          Right, so I believe you were looking at Malawis/Mbunas. Tanganyikans are not really as colourfull as the Malawis but remain smaller. Unfortunatly, you cannot really mix the 2 types of cichlids as the Malawi cichlids are far more aggressive and boisterous then Tanganyikans. A 30 gallon tank I would think will be a little small for them and the idea about keeping Malawi cichlids is to Overcrowd them.

                                                                          Malawi cichlids also include a group called the Mbunas. You can find lot of information on this subject and are probably the most colourfull of all. They require hard alkaline water, top quality filtration and regular water changes. They have to be overcrowded so as to reduce effective aggression. Overcrowding will also mean that you need to keep up with water changes and have a powerfull filter.

                                                                          When choosing the fish, make a lit and quantity that you want to keep and don’t just go and start buying the fish. It is important to introduce the less aggressive fish first and then introduce the more aggressive ones gradually. This helps resolve territory issues between them and less of squabbles. Or, you can go about adding all of them in one go but it will be too much for the biological filter to handle. In short, do not add more aggressive species to the tank first or else it will take up a much larger territory then needed and will cause problems to the weaker species.

                                                                          Also, I would seriously recommend you to think about a bigger tank rather then a 29 gallon. A 45-50 gallon tank would be a minimum to keep this community well behaved and in sufficient quantity. Loads of rock work helps distribute territories as well.

                                                                          Nim

                                                                           


                                                                          From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@runbox.com]
                                                                          Sent: 16 February 2004 15:08
                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Cichlids

                                                                           

                                                                           Hi John.      

                                                                           

                                                                                 I was planning on African Cichlids. No Discus, angels etc.   I have found these to be the brightest colored fish, and the closest to pretty as you can get without going salt water...  

                                                                           

                                                                          Kelly

                                                                           

                                                                          -------Original Message-------

                                                                           

                                                                          Date: 02/16/04 08:23:31

                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids

                                                                           

                                                                          HI Kelly

                                                                           

                                                                          What sort of Cichlids are you thinking of keeping? e.g. South American or African? As I'm sure you will have read it is important that you only keep cichlids from one group together. Also having decided on which group have you decided on any species? Bare in mind that Discus, Angel Fish, Rams, Oscars, etc. are all Cichlids.

                                                                           

                                                                          I have at the moment a 90 litre tank with a Red Tiger Oscar (5") an Angel Fish (4") and a pair of Dwarf Rams (1")

                                                                           

                                                                          They all seem to live together quite happily but the Oscar can get aggressive if not fed propally, oh and he can really eat!!!!

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                                                          From: ~~Kelly~~

                                                                          Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 1:14 PM

                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids

                                                                           

                                                                           Hi there,   We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in the past can give me any pointers or suggestions.  I have done alot of reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on experience for information.

                                                                           

                                                                          Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping them.

                                                                           

                                                                          Thank you... Kelly

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 817 From: Sarah Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                          Subject: Re: Cichlids
                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                            My personal favourite has to be the firemouth, i had a pair and they bred like rabbits but they are beautiful. 
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                            Sarah & Tony
                                                                             
                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                             
                                                                            Date: 16/02/2004 16:52:49
                                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Cichlids
                                                                             

                                                                            Right, so I believe you were looking at Malawis/Mbunas. Tanganyikans are not really as colourfull as the Malawis but remain smaller. Unfortunatly, you cannot really mix the 2 types of cichlids as the Malawi cichlids are far more aggressive and boisterous then Tanganyikans. A 30 gallon tank I would think will be a little small for them and the idea about keeping Malawi cichlids is to Overcrowd them.

                                                                            Malawi cichlids also include a group called the Mbunas. You can find lot of information on this subject and are probably the most colourfull of all. They require hard alkaline water, top quality filtration and regular water changes. They have to be overcrowded so as to reduce effective aggression. Overcrowding will also mean that you need to keep up with water changes and have a powerfull filter.

                                                                            When choosing the fish, make a lit and quantity that you want to keep and don’t just go and start buying the fish. It is important to introduce the less aggressive fish first and then introduce the more aggressive ones gradually. This helps resolve territory issues between them and less of squabbles. Or, you can go about adding all of them in one go but it will be too much for the biological filter to handle. In short, do not add more aggressive species to the tank first or else it will take up a much larger territory then needed and will cause problems to the weaker species.

                                                                            Also, I would seriously recommend you to think about a bigger tank rather then a 29 gallon. A 45-50 gallon tank would be a minimum to keep this community well behaved and in sufficient quantity. Loads of rock work helps distribute territories as well.

                                                                            Nim

                                                                             


                                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@runbox.com]
                                                                            Sent: 16 February 2004 15:08
                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Cichlids

                                                                             

                                                                             Hi John.      

                                                                             

                                                                                   I was planning on African Cichlids. No Discus, angels etc.   I have found these to be the brightest colored fish, and the closest to pretty as you can get without going salt water...  

                                                                             

                                                                            Kelly

                                                                             

                                                                            -------Original Message-------

                                                                             

                                                                            Date: 02/16/04 08:23:31

                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids

                                                                             

                                                                            HI Kelly

                                                                             

                                                                            What sort of Cichlids are you thinking of keeping? e.g. South American or African? As I'm sure you will have read it is important that you only keep cichlids from one group together. Also having decided on which group have you decided on any species? Bare in mind that Discus, Angel Fish, Rams, Oscars, etc. are all Cichlids.

                                                                             

                                                                            I have at the moment a 90 litre tank with a Red Tiger Oscar (5") an Angel Fish (4") and a pair of Dwarf Rams (1")

                                                                             

                                                                            They all seem to live together quite happily but the Oscar can get aggressive if not fed propally, oh and he can really eat!!!!

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            ----- Original Message -----

                                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~

                                                                            Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 1:14 PM

                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids

                                                                             

                                                                             Hi there,   We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in the past can give me any pointers or suggestions.  I have done alot of reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on experience for information.

                                                                             

                                                                            Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping them.

                                                                             

                                                                            Thank you... Kelly

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             


                                                                             
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 818 From: Sarah Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: Update on the tank
                                                                             Mary you might want to try putting another filter in the tank, When we had a big spike we added another filter, now things have changed alot for the better. We dont agree with the salt issue.(sorry)
                                                                             
                                                                            Regards
                                                                             
                                                                            Sarah & Tony
                                                                             
                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                             
                                                                            Date: 15/02/2004 21:19:01
                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank
                                                                             
                                                                            Thanks.  I'll do another water change today.  I already put in the salt.  Should I add more salt after I add the new water?

                                                                            TTYL
                                                                            Mary

                                                                            From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                                                                            Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:43:31 -0000
                                                                            To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank


                                                                            Mary,



                                                                            Burns are caused by Ammonia. Nitrite has internal effects. Do a 80% water change with stresscoat added and some salt. I would normally recommend stop feeding the fish for 3-4 days but since they will be already very weak, it would be a drastic step.



                                                                            Perform a 80% water change and try to keep the PH and temperature of the fresh water as similar as possible to tank water. Temperature is more critical, though fish can handle a PH swing better then a temperature swing and ammonia/nitrites. This is purely on my personal experience.



                                                                            Also, if you get ammonia peaks after 2 days, follow another 50% water change until things stabilize. And yes, reduce the feeding to every other day.



                                                                            Best of luck.

                                                                            Nim

                                                                            Ps: adding stress zyme or other live bacteria may not help as sometimes excess ammonia inhibits denitrifying bacteria and vice versa.




                                                                            From: Mary Ramsower, RVT [mailto:tzuzoo@...]
                                                                            Sent: 15 February 2004 19:35
                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Update on the tank



                                                                            Well, my tank has been in nitrite spike crisis for a week now. Still not
                                                                            going down.  Today I put in more Stress Zyme,  a Tbs. of aquarium salt/5
                                                                            gal. to help break down the nitrites.  When water was tested today, Ammonia
                                                                            was high, also.  The last cory is hanging on, but I can see where his gills
                                                                            are burned from the nitrite.  Now several platys are showing the same sign.
                                                                            Hope that salt works fast.  Anyone know how fast it will begin reducing the
                                                                            nitrites?

                                                                            The lfs recommended only feeding the fish every other day.

                                                                            TTYL
                                                                            Mary




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                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 819 From: Dom Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: Cichlids
                                                                            I believe 29 gallon tank is too small for Malawi. Unless you keeping 2-5 pieces only. Aulonocara
                                                                            species like Blue Ali (it is in nice metalic blue color), Haps or Mbuna will grow to 6-8inch min. They
                                                                            will fright till die when there is not enough space for them. I had kept 35 pieces of Malawi cichlids in
                                                                            100 gallon tank. Average size is from 2-5inch. Most of the Malawi cichlids will fright with their same
                                                                            breed. PH level is around 7.2-8. Temporature is around 26-30 degree C.

                                                                            Beside the huge and fierce Malawi. You can try Tropheus. They are smaller size. Lovely and peaceful.
                                                                            Algae is their favourite food. Try to look for Tropheus sp Karago. Which is a bar of yellow line on the
                                                                            body. PH level is around 7.5-8. Temporature is same with others Malawi. But cant exceed 32 degree C.

                                                                            There are up to thousand types of Malawi Lake cichlids. Try to get Nanacara, Laetacara Curviceps or
                                                                            kribs. They are smaller size. Lower PH level and easy to keep. Temporature is around 24-28 degree C.
                                                                            Max size of nanacara is around 2.5inch. Krib is around 3inch and Laetacara is around 3inch also. They
                                                                            are no fierce as other malawi cichlids. But they will attack others when they are spawning or guarding
                                                                            their babies. Steatocranus Casuarius is another kind of lovely cichlid I love the most. Due to they are
                                                                            not a good swimmer, and only stay at the bottom of the tank/river. So, they survive in the strong water
                                                                            flow river to provide enough osygen. The hump on their head is big. That's why people called them as
                                                                            Lion Head or Block Head. Max size is 4-5inch only.

                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah" <sarah@f...> wrote:
                                                                            > My personal favourite has to be the firemouth, i had a pair and they bred
                                                                            > like rabbits but they are beautiful.
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Sarah & Tony
                                                                            >
                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                            >
                                                                            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > Date: 16/02/2004 16:52:49
                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Cichlids
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Right, so I believe you were looking at Malawis/Mbunas. Tanganyikans are not
                                                                            > really as colourfull as the Malawis but remain smaller. Unfortunatly, you
                                                                            > cannot really mix the 2 types of cichlids as the Malawi cichlids are far
                                                                            > more aggressive and boisterous then Tanganyikans. A 30 gallon tank I would
                                                                            > think will be a little small for them and the idea about keeping Malawi
                                                                            > cichlids is to Overcrowd them.
                                                                            > Malawi cichlids also include a group called the Mbunas. You can find lot of
                                                                            > information on this subject and are probably the most colourfull of all.
                                                                            > They require hard alkaline water, top quality filtration and regular water
                                                                            > changes. They have to be overcrowded so as to reduce effective aggression.
                                                                            > Overcrowding will also mean that you need to keep up with water changes and
                                                                            > have a powerfull filter.
                                                                            > When choosing the fish, make a lit and quantity that you want to keep and
                                                                            > don't just go and start buying the fish. It is important to introduce the
                                                                            > less aggressive fish first and then introduce the more aggressive ones
                                                                            > gradually. This helps resolve territory issues between them and less of
                                                                            > squabbles. Or, you can go about adding all of them in one go but it will be
                                                                            > too much for the biological filter to handle. In short, do not add more
                                                                            > aggressive species to the tank first or else it will take up a much larger
                                                                            > territory then needed and will cause problems to the weaker species.
                                                                            > Also, I would seriously recommend you to think about a bigger tank rather
                                                                            > then a 29 gallon. A 45-50 gallon tank would be a minimum to keep this
                                                                            > community well behaved and in sufficient quantity. Loads of rock work helps
                                                                            > distribute territories as well.
                                                                            > Nim
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@r...]
                                                                            > Sent: 16 February 2004 15:08
                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Cichlids
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Hi John.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > I was planning on African Cichlids. No Discus, angels etc. I have
                                                                            > found these to be the brightest colored fish, and the closest to pretty as
                                                                            > you can get without going salt water...
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Kelly
                                                                            >
                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                            >
                                                                            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > Date: 02/16/04 08:23:31
                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids
                                                                            >
                                                                            > HI Kelly
                                                                            >
                                                                            > What sort of Cichlids are you thinking of keeping? e.g. South American or
                                                                            > African? As I'm sure you will have read it is important that you only keep
                                                                            > cichlids from one group together. Also having decided on which group have
                                                                            > you decided on any species? Bare in mind that Discus, Angel Fish, Rams,
                                                                            > Oscars, etc. are all Cichlids.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > I have at the moment a 90 litre tank with a Red Tiger Oscar (5") an Angel
                                                                            > Fish (4") and a pair of Dwarf Rams (1")
                                                                            >
                                                                            > They all seem to live together quite happily but the Oscar can get
                                                                            > aggressive if not fed propally, oh and he can really eat!!!!
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            > From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                            > To: undisclosed-recipients@m...
                                                                            > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 1:14 PM
                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Hi there, We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for
                                                                            > chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in
                                                                            > the past can give me any pointers or suggestions. I have done alot of
                                                                            > reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think
                                                                            > you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on
                                                                            > experience for information.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send
                                                                            > it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire
                                                                            > tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping
                                                                            > them.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Thank you... Kelly
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                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 820 From: Dom Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: Chichlids
                                                                            Nimish,

                                                                            Reef aquarium in look is not the correct biotope for Malawi. I know the dead rock will maintain the
                                                                            PH level. But the river sand and rocks will be the correct biotope for Malawi. Normally, I place the
                                                                            dead rock or coral sand inside my filter box or canister. So that, the PH level will be there.

                                                                            Dead rock can be placed in the tank when keeping the Tangayika. But not the whole tank or the whole
                                                                            tank setup.

                                                                            Kelly,
                                                                            If you want coloful cichlids, you can try the cichlids from Lake of Victoria - Africa. They are much
                                                                            more colorful than Malawi. Small size. But a bit pricy. If you want to know more what is Victoria,
                                                                            Malawi, Tangayika, SA, CA and riverine cichlids. www.cichlids.com is the better place for you to
                                                                            browse through.

                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                            wrote:
                                                                            > Hi Kelly,
                                                                            >
                                                                            > It all really depends on what kind of water you get in your tap. If you get
                                                                            > hard alkaline water, then for a 29 gallon, tanganyikan cichlids would be a
                                                                            > good choice. They preffer sandy bottom and lots of rocks and caves. Malawis
                                                                            > would be ok, but your tank is too small to house them. But in a 100 gallon
                                                                            > tank or above, Malawis can compete with any reef aquarium in looks.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > If you get soft water (acidic/alkaline/nutral) you can be lucky enough to
                                                                            > house south American dwarf cichlids. Papilochromis, apsitogrammas etc. . if
                                                                            > you have alkaline soft water, you may have to use Peat to acidify the water
                                                                            > as the fish preffer soft acidic water. Peat content in the water will make
                                                                            > them feel at home but will also slightly stain the water brown. These fish
                                                                            > needs lots of rocks as well and will be happy with plants as well.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > If you get Moderatly soft (upto 15dGH) and PH nutral water, you can go for
                                                                            > central American cichlids, but they get very large. Things like Severum,
                                                                            > Chromides (asian cichlid) etc will remain smaller then most central American
                                                                            > cichlids but a 29 gallon tank would really not be a home for these.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Why I specifically stressed on your tap water is to create a minimum effort
                                                                            > environment for you. Eg. In a region of hard alkaline water, you may need to
                                                                            > invest in a RO unit to keep South American cichlids and discuss, where as
                                                                            > for keeping African species you really need not do anything other then water
                                                                            > conditioners.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Similarly, in a soft acidic water area, you will have to chemically adjust
                                                                            > the water to suit African Cichlids.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Also keep in mind that cichlids are territorial and aggressive, so a 29
                                                                            > gallon tank will be small for many species but good enough for South
                                                                            > American cichlids and many Tanganyikans.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > If you need more suggestions on fish, do let us know your water parameters
                                                                            > and we can suggest lots of fish that can be kept.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Nim
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > _____
                                                                            >
                                                                            > From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@r...]
                                                                            > Sent: 16 February 2004 13:14
                                                                            > To: undisclosed-recipients@m...
                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Hi there, We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for
                                                                            > chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in
                                                                            > the past can give me any pointers or suggestions. I have done alot of
                                                                            > reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think
                                                                            > you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on
                                                                            > experience for information.
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send
                                                                            > it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire
                                                                            > tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping
                                                                            > them.
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Thank you... Kelly
                                                                            >
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                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 821 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                            Subject: nitrite and ammonia levels
                                                                            i have a nitrite level of about 4 or 5 ppm and a ammonia level of
                                                                            about .50 ppm. the tank is a 5 1/2 gallon. it has been set up for
                                                                            about 5 weeks. i do a 20% water change every other day. i feed the
                                                                            fish on the day that i dont do the water change. i use ammonia and
                                                                            carbon chips in my filter. i have 2 guppies one sword tail and one
                                                                            albino cory. i was just wondering if any one can tell me if this is a
                                                                            problem.
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 822 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 2/16/2004
                                                                            Subject: Baby Guppies
                                                                            Blank
                                                                             
                                                                            How big  should i  let  my baby  guppies get  before  putting back  in with the other fish?
                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 823 From: Dom Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: Cichlids
                                                                            Sorry. Wrong info given. The PH level for Malawi cichlids is from 7.8-8.5.

                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Dom" <itssg@y...> wrote:
                                                                            > I believe 29 gallon tank is too small for Malawi. Unless you keeping 2-5 pieces only. Aulonocara
                                                                            > species like Blue Ali (it is in nice metalic blue color), Haps or Mbuna will grow to 6-8inch min.
                                                                            They
                                                                            > will fright till die when there is not enough space for them. I had kept 35 pieces of Malawi cichlids in
                                                                            > 100 gallon tank. Average size is from 2-5inch. Most of the Malawi cichlids will fright with their
                                                                            same
                                                                            > breed. PH level is around 7.2-8. Temporature is around 26-30 degree C.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Beside the huge and fierce Malawi. You can try Tropheus. They are smaller size. Lovely and
                                                                            peaceful.
                                                                            > Algae is their favourite food. Try to look for Tropheus sp Karago. Which is a bar of yellow line on
                                                                            the
                                                                            > body. PH level is around 7.5-8. Temporature is same with others Malawi. But cant exceed 32 degree
                                                                            C.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > There are up to thousand types of Malawi Lake cichlids. Try to get Nanacara, Laetacara Curviceps or
                                                                            > kribs. They are smaller size. Lower PH level and easy to keep. Temporature is around 24-28 degree
                                                                            C.
                                                                            > Max size of nanacara is around 2.5inch. Krib is around 3inch and Laetacara is around 3inch also.
                                                                            They
                                                                            > are no fierce as other malawi cichlids. But they will attack others when they are spawning or
                                                                            guarding
                                                                            > their babies. Steatocranus Casuarius is another kind of lovely cichlid I love the most. Due to they are
                                                                            > not a good swimmer, and only stay at the bottom of the tank/river. So, they survive in the strong
                                                                            water
                                                                            > flow river to provide enough osygen. The hump on their head is big. That's why people called them
                                                                            as
                                                                            > Lion Head or Block Head. Max size is 4-5inch only.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah" <sarah@f...> wrote:
                                                                            > > My personal favourite has to be the firemouth, i had a pair and they bred
                                                                            > > like rabbits but they are beautiful.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Sarah & Tony
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > > Date: 16/02/2004 16:52:49
                                                                            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Cichlids
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Right, so I believe you were looking at Malawis/Mbunas. Tanganyikans are not
                                                                            > > really as colourfull as the Malawis but remain smaller. Unfortunatly, you
                                                                            > > cannot really mix the 2 types of cichlids as the Malawi cichlids are far
                                                                            > > more aggressive and boisterous then Tanganyikans. A 30 gallon tank I would
                                                                            > > think will be a little small for them and the idea about keeping Malawi
                                                                            > > cichlids is to Overcrowd them.
                                                                            > > Malawi cichlids also include a group called the Mbunas. You can find lot of
                                                                            > > information on this subject and are probably the most colourfull of all.
                                                                            > > They require hard alkaline water, top quality filtration and regular water
                                                                            > > changes. They have to be overcrowded so as to reduce effective aggression.
                                                                            > > Overcrowding will also mean that you need to keep up with water changes and
                                                                            > > have a powerfull filter.
                                                                            > > When choosing the fish, make a lit and quantity that you want to keep and
                                                                            > > don't just go and start buying the fish. It is important to introduce the
                                                                            > > less aggressive fish first and then introduce the more aggressive ones
                                                                            > > gradually. This helps resolve territory issues between them and less of
                                                                            > > squabbles. Or, you can go about adding all of them in one go but it will be
                                                                            > > too much for the biological filter to handle. In short, do not add more
                                                                            > > aggressive species to the tank first or else it will take up a much larger
                                                                            > > territory then needed and will cause problems to the weaker species.
                                                                            > > Also, I would seriously recommend you to think about a bigger tank rather
                                                                            > > then a 29 gallon. A 45-50 gallon tank would be a minimum to keep this
                                                                            > > community well behaved and in sufficient quantity. Loads of rock work helps
                                                                            > > distribute territories as well.
                                                                            > > Nim
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@r...]
                                                                            > > Sent: 16 February 2004 15:08
                                                                            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Cichlids
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Hi John.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > I was planning on African Cichlids. No Discus, angels etc. I have
                                                                            > > found these to be the brightest colored fish, and the closest to pretty as
                                                                            > > you can get without going salt water...
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Kelly
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > > Date: 02/16/04 08:23:31
                                                                            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > HI Kelly
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > What sort of Cichlids are you thinking of keeping? e.g. South American or
                                                                            > > African? As I'm sure you will have read it is important that you only keep
                                                                            > > cichlids from one group together. Also having decided on which group have
                                                                            > > you decided on any species? Bare in mind that Discus, Angel Fish, Rams,
                                                                            > > Oscars, etc. are all Cichlids.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > I have at the moment a 90 litre tank with a Red Tiger Oscar (5") an Angel
                                                                            > > Fish (4") and a pair of Dwarf Rams (1")
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > They all seem to live together quite happily but the Oscar can get
                                                                            > > aggressive if not fed propally, oh and he can really eat!!!!
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            > > From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                            > > To: undisclosed-recipients@m...
                                                                            > > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 1:14 PM
                                                                            > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Hi there, We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for
                                                                            > > chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in
                                                                            > > the past can give me any pointers or suggestions. I have done alot of
                                                                            > > reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think
                                                                            > > you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on
                                                                            > > experience for information.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send
                                                                            > > it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire
                                                                            > > tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping
                                                                            > > them.
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > Thank you... Kelly
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > >
                                                                            > > OWNER
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                                                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Peaches_N_DreamzIMGroup/?yguid=152063370
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                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 824 From: Kari Vigneau Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels
                                                                            sounds like it is cycling to me. Just keep doing what your doing and let it run it's course. It actually took my tank almost 10 weeks to complete the cycle. For the nitrite i just stopped feeding the fish for 3 days and did water changes everyday. Just hang in there it will turn around
                                                                            Kari

                                                                            red_5sw@... wrote:
                                                                            i have a nitrite level of about 4 or 5 ppm and a ammonia level of
                                                                            about .50 ppm. the tank is a 5 1/2 gallon. it has been set up for
                                                                            about 5 weeks. i do a 20% water change every other day. i feed the
                                                                            fish on the day that i dont do the water change. i use ammonia and
                                                                            carbon chips in my filter. i have 2 guppies one sword tail and one
                                                                            albino cory. i was just wondering if any one can tell me if this is a
                                                                            problem.



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                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 825 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels

                                                                            The Ammonia level seems to be ok as I think it is reducing. In a acidic PH, having 0.05ppm ammonia is very much ok as it mostly exists as Ammonium ions. In a high alkaline PH this could be a little problem. 20% of water change every other day is a lot and can cause a lot of instability as well, perhaps that’s why the tank has taken too long to cycle completely. Nitrite levels however are high and shows that it is still cycling. Reduce your water change frequency and take readings every day or every other day. Also it seems that u re feeding the fish every other day as well? Any reason for that? It can be a temporary measure to help cycle but not advisable as most fish don’t really have a stomach and need food more frequently.

                                                                             

                                                                            Also, since you have very low ammonia reading, stop using Ammo chips. I don’t find it a good idea to start controlling ammonia and nitrite even before the cycle is completed. You may be starving the bacteria which inturn give instability.

                                                                             

                                                                            Nim

                                                                             

                                                                             


                                                                            From: red_5sw@... [mailto:red_5sw@...]
                                                                            Sent: 17 February 2004 04:15
                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite and ammonia levels

                                                                             

                                                                            i have a nitrite level of about 4 or 5 ppm and a ammonia level of
                                                                            about .50 ppm. the tank is a 5 1/2 gallon. it has been set up for
                                                                            about 5 weeks. i do a 20% water change every other day. i feed the
                                                                            fish on the day that i dont do the water change. i use ammonia and
                                                                            carbon chips in my filter. i have 2 guppies one sword tail and one
                                                                            albino cory. i was just wondering if any one can tell me if this is a
                                                                            problem.



                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 826 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: Chichlids
                                                                             WOW... you are all talking Waaaaaaay over my head..... lol      but that is ok.. I will either keep reading or stay away from cichlids... lol
                                                                             
                                                                            hugs,  Kelly
                                                                             
                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                             
                                                                            Date: 02/16/04 21:17:05
                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Chichlids
                                                                             
                                                                            Nimish,

                                                                            Reef aquarium in look is not the correct biotope for Malawi. I know the dead rock will maintain the
                                                                            PH level. But the river sand and rocks will be the correct biotope for Malawi. Normally, I place the
                                                                            dead rock or coral sand inside my filter box or canister. So that, the PH level will be there.

                                                                            Dead rock can be placed in the tank when keeping the Tangayika. But not the whole tank or the whole
                                                                            tank setup.

                                                                            Kelly,
                                                                            If you want coloful cichlids, you can try the cichlids from Lake of Victoria - Africa. They are much
                                                                            more colorful than Malawi. Small size. But a bit pricy. If you want to know more what is Victoria,
                                                                            Malawi, Tangayika, SA, CA and riverine cichlids. www.cichlids.com is the better place for you to
                                                                            browse through.

                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                            wrote:
                                                                            > Hi Kelly,
                                                                            >
                                                                            > It all really depends on what kind of water you get in your tap. If you get
                                                                            > hard alkaline water, then for a 29 gallon, tanganyikan cichlids would be a
                                                                            > good choice. They preffer sandy bottom and lots of rocks and caves. Malawis
                                                                            > would be ok, but your tank is too small to house them. But in a 100 gallon
                                                                            > tank or above, Malawis can compete with any reef aquarium in looks.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > If you get soft water (acidic/alkaline/nutral) you can be lucky enough to
                                                                            > house south American dwarf cichlids. Papilochromis, apsitogrammas etc. . if
                                                                            > you have alkaline soft water, you may have to use Peat to acidify the water
                                                                            > as the fish preffer soft acidic water. Peat content in the water will make
                                                                            > them feel at home but will also slightly stain the water brown. These fish
                                                                            > needs lots of rocks as well and will be happy with plants as well.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > If you get Moderatly soft (upto 15dGH) and PH nutral water, you can go for
                                                                            > central American cichlids, but they get very large. Things like Severum,
                                                                            > Chromides (asian cichlid) etc will remain smaller then most central American
                                                                            > cichlids but a 29 gallon tank would really not be a home for these.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Why I specifically stressed on your tap water is to create a minimum effort
                                                                            > environment for you. Eg. In a region of hard alkaline water, you may need to
                                                                            > invest in a RO unit to keep South American cichlids and discuss, where as
                                                                            > for keeping African species you really need not do anything other then water
                                                                            > conditioners.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Similarly, in a soft acidic water area, you will have to chemically adjust
                                                                            > the water to suit African Cichlids.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Also keep in mind that cichlids are territorial and aggressive, so a 29
                                                                            > gallon tank will be small for many species but good enough for South
                                                                            > American cichlids and many Tanganyikans.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > If you need more suggestions on fish, do let us know your water parameters
                                                                            > and we can suggest lots of fish that can be kept.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Nim
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            >   _____ 
                                                                            >
                                                                            > From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@r...]
                                                                            > Sent: 16 February 2004 13:14
                                                                            > To: undisclosed-recipients@m...
                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >  Hi there,   We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for
                                                                            > chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in
                                                                            > the past can give me any pointers or suggestions.  I have done alot of
                                                                            > reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think
                                                                            > you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on
                                                                            > experience for information.
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            > Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send
                                                                            > it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire
                                                                            > tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping
                                                                            > them.
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            > Thank you... Kelly
                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

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                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 827 From: John Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: Chichlids
                                                                            Dont be disheartened by all of the technical info. At the end of the day you could just buy a selection of fish , dump them in the tank and everything be fine. Some people in our hobby, and I include myself, spend too much time in making sure every tiny little detail is right and not enough time actually enjoying our fish! My mother in law had a 4 ft tank with a selection of community fish. When I went over there I did a water test and the ammonia was high, the nitrite scarey and the nitrate was well, off the scale! All this and she never had any problems! All the fish seemed ok and it had been that way for a long time. I know that is not what was being talked about but the point is the same.
                                                                             
                                                                            At the end of the day once you have all the equipment, the fish aren't that expensive. I would say get a half a dozen of the fish that you like and see how they get on. If they don't then try another approach.
                                                                             
                                                                            John
                                                                             
                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:56 PM
                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Chichlids

                                                                             WOW... you are all talking Waaaaaaay over my head..... lol      but that is ok.. I will either keep reading or stay away from cichlids... lol
                                                                             
                                                                            hugs,  Kelly
                                                                             
                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                             
                                                                            Date: 02/16/04 21:17:05
                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Chichlids
                                                                             
                                                                            Nimish,

                                                                            Reef aquarium in look is not the correct biotope for Malawi. I know the dead rock will maintain the
                                                                            PH level. But the river sand and rocks will be the correct biotope for Malawi. Normally, I place the
                                                                            dead rock or coral sand inside my filter box or canister. So that, the PH level will be there.

                                                                            Dead rock can be placed in the tank when keeping the Tangayika. But not the whole tank or the whole
                                                                            tank setup.

                                                                            Kelly,
                                                                            If you want coloful cichlids, you can try the cichlids from Lake of Victoria - Africa. They are much
                                                                            more colorful than Malawi. Small size. But a bit pricy. If you want to know more what is Victoria,
                                                                            Malawi, Tangayika, SA, CA and riverine cichlids. www.cichlids.com is the better place for you to
                                                                            browse through.

                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                            wrote:
                                                                            > Hi Kelly,
                                                                            >
                                                                            > It all really depends on what kind of water you get in your tap. If you get
                                                                            > hard alkaline water, then for a 29 gallon, tanganyikan cichlids would be a
                                                                            > good choice. They preffer sandy bottom and lots of rocks and caves. Malawis
                                                                            > would be ok, but your tank is too small to house them. But in a 100 gallon
                                                                            > tank or above, Malawis can compete with any reef aquarium in looks.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > If you get soft water (acidic/alkaline/nutral) you can be lucky enough to
                                                                            > house south American dwarf cichlids. Papilochromis, apsitogrammas etc. . if
                                                                            > you have alkaline soft water, you may have to use Peat to acidify the water
                                                                            > as the fish preffer soft acidic water. Peat content in the water will make
                                                                            > them feel at home but will also slightly stain the water brown. These fish
                                                                            > needs lots of rocks as well and will be happy with plants as well.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > If you get Moderatly soft (upto 15dGH) and PH nutral water, you can go for
                                                                            > central American cichlids, but they get very large. Things like Severum,
                                                                            > Chromides (asian cichlid) etc will remain smaller then most central American
                                                                            > cichlids but a 29 gallon tank would really not be a home for these.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Why I specifically stressed on your tap water is to create a minimum effort
                                                                            > environment for you. Eg. In a region of hard alkaline water, you may need to
                                                                            > invest in a RO unit to keep South American cichlids and discuss, where as
                                                                            > for keeping African species you really need not do anything other then water
                                                                            > conditioners.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Similarly, in a soft acidic water area, you will have to chemically adjust
                                                                            > the water to suit African Cichlids.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Also keep in mind that cichlids are territorial and aggressive, so a 29
                                                                            > gallon tank will be small for many species but good enough for South
                                                                            > American cichlids and many Tanganyikans.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > If you need more suggestions on fish, do let us know your water parameters
                                                                            > and we can suggest lots of fish that can be kept.
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Nim
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            >   _____ 
                                                                            >
                                                                            > From: ~~Kelly~~ [mailto:dreamz64@r...]
                                                                            > Sent: 16 February 2004 13:14
                                                                            > To: undisclosed-recipients@m...
                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chichlids
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >  Hi there,   We are considering getting a new 29 gallon tank just for
                                                                            > chichlids and I was wondering if anyone that has them or has kept them in
                                                                            > the past can give me any pointers or suggestions.  I have done alot of
                                                                            > reading about them, and have been admiring them for a long time, but I think
                                                                            > you can only read so much and then you need to turn to those with hands on
                                                                            > experience for information.
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            > Sooooooooo If anyone has chichlids or any suggestions could you please send
                                                                            > it my way... I think the fish are gorgeous and would love to have an entire
                                                                            > tank full of these beautiful fish, but not until I know more about keeping
                                                                            > them.
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            > Thank you... Kelly
                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

                                                                            >

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                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 828 From: tbittick Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: introduction
                                                                            Greetings fellow fish fans from the the great state of Michigan.

                                                                            My name is Tony and after an extended hiatus of about 20 years from the
                                                                            world of tropical fish keeping I am mid-stride in making my return.

                                                                            My first endeavor lasted quite a while and included a 10 gallon and 20
                                                                            gallon tank.

                                                                            For a host of reasons I'm sure you're all familiar with I loved it.

                                                                            I only stopped because one winter while I was away for a few weeks we
                                                                            experienced and ice storm and power outage that led to all my fish dying. I
                                                                            just never had the drive to rekindle the hobby. Sold all my gear for about
                                                                            $50 and moved on.

                                                                            I guess I started thinking about it all a couple of years ago when my oldest
                                                                            soon took an interest in having a golf fish. It was a disastrous experience.
                                                                            We/I killed two fish within days and I don't think the third one last very
                                                                            long either.

                                                                            I was devasted not to mention how he felt. After all, I'd been a learned
                                                                            fish hobbyist... able to discern and treat "ich" with single glance. How
                                                                            come I couldn't keep goldfish alive?

                                                                            The interest was rekindled a couple of months ago when my daughter found her
                                                                            older brothers now abandoned fish bowl and asked if SHE could have a fish...
                                                                            two golfish and one betta later we've had some success with paradise fish
                                                                            and yours truly has officially put his toe back in the water.

                                                                            I'm in the process of refurbishing (new paint job) an aquarium stand I
                                                                            acquired from another retired hobbyist and then purchased a 55 gal kit from
                                                                            a local pet store.

                                                                            Man have things changed. And I really appreciate John's recent post as a
                                                                            result.

                                                                            When I last did this underground filters were the rave and the reason you
                                                                            did fresh instead of salt water was so you didn't HAVE to measure water
                                                                            quality.

                                                                            Having poked around the Internet for a while my head was left spinning a
                                                                            little. I mean my two tanks were very successful. Bala sharks, ghost shrimp,
                                                                            eels and some live plants... I mean I had lots of fun fish and never
                                                                            measured ph once.

                                                                            Of course there was no Internet either so there you go.

                                                                            My goal, for a myriad of reasons, is to go real slow with this. I've had the
                                                                            tank since Saturday and I'd be surprised if it has any water in in before
                                                                            this coming weekend.

                                                                            I'm very interested in doing live plants and would actually like to get some
                                                                            of them up and running, alive and growing, before adding any fish. Although
                                                                            I've heard two opinions on this. One says it's a great idea, the other says
                                                                            that untile I put at least "some" fish in the tank, it's not going to cycle.

                                                                            So... I'm very much all ears. I'd love the hear what folks have to say,
                                                                            advice they have to offer and tips they can share. While I'm open to most
                                                                            knowledge, what I'd really like at this stage is suggestions on low light,
                                                                            relatively low maintenance plants that I can start with, and then thoughts
                                                                            or ideas on cycling the tank and adding my first fish.

                                                                            Very happy this list exists.

                                                                            Greetings again,

                                                                            Tony
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 829 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels
                                                                            Nim, do you think that every three days for a water change is good.
                                                                            also what type of media should i use. is what i am using good or
                                                                            should i use some thing else. thank you for all of your great advice.

                                                                            Eric
                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                            Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                            > The Ammonia level seems to be ok as I think it is reducing. In a
                                                                            acidic PH,
                                                                            > having 0.05ppm ammonia is very much ok as it mostly exists as
                                                                            Ammonium ions.
                                                                            > In a high alkaline PH this could be a little problem. 20% of water
                                                                            change
                                                                            > every other day is a lot and can cause a lot of instability as
                                                                            well, perhaps
                                                                            > that's why the tank has taken too long to cycle completely. Nitrite
                                                                            levels
                                                                            > however are high and shows that it is still cycling. Reduce your
                                                                            water
                                                                            > change frequency and take readings every day or every other day.
                                                                            Also it
                                                                            > seems that u re feeding the fish every other day as well? Any
                                                                            reason for
                                                                            > that? It can be a temporary measure to help cycle but not advisable
                                                                            as most
                                                                            > fish don't really have a stomach and need food more frequently.
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Also, since you have very low ammonia reading, stop using Ammo
                                                                            chips. I
                                                                            > don't find it a good idea to start controlling ammonia and nitrite
                                                                            even
                                                                            > before the cycle is completed. You may be starving the bacteria
                                                                            which inturn
                                                                            > give instability.
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            > Nim
                                                                            >
                                                                            >
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 830 From: Mejim6@aol.com Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: introduction
                                                                            My name is Tony and after an extended hiatus of about 20 years from the
                                                                            world of tropical fish keeping I am mid-stride in making my return.

                                                                            Hi Tony,
                                                                            I too am getting back into the hobby but only after a 7 year hiatus.  There have been a lot of changes just in that time.  I had a fish room with 40 tanks before and bred a lot of africans.  Now I have a 7 year old who is interested in fish so I am back in.  This time I won't have as many tanks because I simply don't have the room unless the kid sleeps on the couch! LOL




                                                                            I'm in the process of refurbishing (new paint job) an aquarium stand

                                                                            Me too!  One of our 55 gal. stands had gotten a bit of rust on the legs so today I have been refinishing it.  I am glad that we hung onto a few of our tanks, stands and equipment.

                                                                            Have fun!

                                                                            Melissa in Ohio
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 831 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels

                                                                            Eric,

                                                                             

                                                                            Water change every 3 days should be fine. Just watch the Nitrite levels and when they turn zero, reduce to weekly water changes. Normally for a 5-7 gallon tank moderately stocked, any media will suffice, however for heavily stocked tanks having a biomedia will help. This can be the Eheim ceramic media or Volcanic porous gravel. But you will need either an open filter or a canister for these. Having biomedia allows for more stability and reduced fluctuations in ammonia and nitrites. Rite now the priority would be to carryon using your media and do-not change it. Let the tank cycle and run for a couple of months and then you can think about changing the media. When changing media, float/submerge the new media in the tank for a couple of days. This will enable them with the required bacteria and help it mature faster.

                                                                             

                                                                            Do you have any live plants in the tank? This is an important aspect as live plants consume nitrates and fish waste helping in water quality. My 105 gallon heavily stocked and heavily planted tank can go for months without water change.

                                                                             

                                                                            If you don’t have plants, then using a reverse Under gravel filter (with a prefilter or flow from an existing filter) is one of the best/cheapest biological filter, but the concept is very debatable as some swear by it (like myself) and some don’t regard it of any use. I wont discuss this topic here but a new post is welcome for this discussion.

                                                                             

                                                                            HTH

                                                                            Nim

                                                                             

                                                                             


                                                                            From: red_5sw@... [mailto:red_5sw@...]
                                                                            Sent: 17 February 2004 22:06
                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: nitrite and ammonia levels

                                                                             

                                                                            Nim, do you think that every three days for a water change is good.
                                                                            also what type of media should i use. is what i am using good or
                                                                            should i use some thing else. thank you for all of your great advice.

                                                                            Eric
                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com , "Nimish
                                                                            Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                            > The Ammonia level seems to be ok as I think it is reducing. In a
                                                                            acidic PH,
                                                                            > having 0.05ppm ammonia is very much ok as it mostly exists as
                                                                            Ammonium ions.
                                                                            > In a high alkaline PH this could be a little problem. 20% of water
                                                                            change
                                                                            > every other day is a lot and can cause a lot of instability as
                                                                            well, perhaps
                                                                            > that's why the tank has taken too long to cycle completely. Nitrite
                                                                            levels
                                                                            > however are high and shows that it is still cycling. Reduce your
                                                                            water
                                                                            > change frequency and take readings every day or every other day.
                                                                            Also it
                                                                            > seems that u re feeding the fish every other day as well? Any
                                                                            reason for
                                                                            > that? It can be a temporary measure to help cycle but not advisable
                                                                            as most
                                                                            > fish don't really have a stomach and need food more frequently.
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            > Also, since you have very low ammonia reading, stop using Ammo
                                                                            chips. I
                                                                            > don't find it a good idea to start controlling ammonia and nitrite
                                                                            even
                                                                            > before the cycle is completed. You may be starving the bacteria
                                                                            which inturn
                                                                            > give instability.
                                                                            >

                                                                            >
                                                                            > Nim
                                                                            >





                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 832 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: nitrite and ammonia levels
                                                                            Nim,



                                                                            what about stress zyme or cycle, does it do any thing to help
                                                                            cycle the tank or is it just so they can make more money. also how
                                                                            well does Bio-Chem Stars work if at all. I will be ordring some
                                                                            plants soon. 12 low light plants from a company near my home.





                                                                            Thanks

                                                                            Eric
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 833 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                             Okay, you guys already knew that one of my platy's and one of my mollies earlier this month decided to be sneaky and both had fry when I was unprepared. So as a result I had to go fishing for the babies, and now I've got two platy fry and about 18 (or so) mollie fry in a separate small tank.
                                                                             
                                                                            Now I've just noticed that one of my platy females is pregnant (I think it was the same one because of her tail ... she has different looking tail than my other female platy) and one of my mollie females again appear to be pregnant. Their bellies are significantly larger than the other female of their kind. And I know they are still having fry from first pregnancy because all of my males have died.
                                                                             
                                                                            So ... should I go ahead and isolate both pregnant females in breeder box, since I can tell they are pregnant? It was a royal PAIN to go chasing after fry, trying to net them and move them so they wouldn't get eaten. I'd really like to avoid that if at all possible. I have no idea how long after they APPEAR to be pregnant that they will give birth. Is it safe to go ahead and run the risk of isolating them early? Or will less fry survive if the mothers are isolated before their due time than if the mothers eat them??
                                                                             
                                                                            The breeder box that I have has got a grate at the bottom for the fry to go into where the mothers can't eat them, and the box can be divided to hold two mothers.
                                                                             
                                                                            Erin
                                                                            my messenger ID's ...
                                                                            Yahoo! messenger : vampifan22
                                                                            MSN messenger (no email please!) : witchywmn42@...
                                                                            AIM : WtchyMm
                                                                            visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 834 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/17/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                            I don't know how much risk you're willing to take, but I had hordes of Plattys', and loads of Cory eggs (but few successful Cory hatches). My Platty fry, or maybe Platty fry in general naturally located in a Java-Moss arrangement, and stayed there. There is a floating-ring available, that is bought with a cone with lots of holes, that fits on the ring, if you want to locate something like blood-worms there for feeding. There's a little nub on one side of the ring, where a suction-cup placed there, will allow you to keep it stationary on the tank glass. With or without the cone, and suctoin-cup, the ring is usefull. The Java-Moss was located in the top area of the tank, held in place by the natural properties of the moss, and the locations on hang-on-caves (suction-cups actually, as the so-called decoraations were'nt hung), where one could loop the moss . Anyway, the fry would hover and dart around and through the inner parts of the moss, and for feeding, the ring was (it floats) placed in the center of the moss-arrangement. If the adult fish were well fed, there was apparently no reason to see the fry as food. As for the Corydoras', my feelings were that if I had hatches that's fine, if not, the eggs as food was ok. There are ways of ensuring sucess with Cory eggs, but I had'nt tried them
                                                                            Joe Pascavage
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 835 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                            Hi Erin,
                                                                             
                                                                                    Once Live bearers are pregnant, they will continue to have batch after batch of fry every 30 days or so for 4-6 months without being with a male.   
                                                                             
                                                                                    If you remember the date that your moms had the last batch of fry you can "guess" that they will have another batch roughly 28-30 later(Give or take a couple of days).
                                                                             
                                                                            What I usually do Is count the days and around day 23-25 I take the pregnant mom from the community tank and put her in one of my baby tanks, but in a breeding net. ( I also have those plastic contraptions, but to me they are way to small to keep a full grown fish in for 5 days or so)...   I let the mom have what I "THINK" is most of the fry in the net.. Once she is done or close to done having the fry she will start to taunt the fry and WILL eat them... At this time I move her to one of those plastic breeding/seperator boxes, give her some food and leave her there for just a couple more hours.. 1.  If she has more fry they are better protected.... 2.   My LFS told me that its a good way for the mom that just had babies to get herself together so to speak, before she goes back into the community tank.    If after 3 hours or so she has had no more fry, has eaten. looks fine etc I then put her right back into the community tank.
                                                                             
                                                                            You mentioned belly size and I found out a month ago that the belly size can sometimes fool you.   I got a green swordtail that from my LFS and she was huge... I thought for sure we were going to have babies in the bag on the 10minute drive home.    I got her home and put her right into the breeding net..... and NOTHING..... 2 1/2 weeks later she finally delivered over 60 fry. she never looked any bigger the day she had the fry than she did the day I brought her home and she still looked huge a few days after she had all of those babies.
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                            I hope this was of some help... and be sure to keep us posted!
                                                                            hugs,
                                                                             Kelly
                                                                             
                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                             
                                                                            Date: 02/17/04 21:41:02
                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                             
                                                                             Okay, you guys already knew that one of my platy's and one of my mollies earlier this month decided to be sneaky and both had fry when I was unprepared. So as a result I had to go fishing for the babies, and now I've got two platy fry and about 18 (or so) mollie fry in a separate small tank.
                                                                             
                                                                            Now I've just noticed that one of my platy females is pregnant (I think it was the same one because of her tail ... she has different looking tail than my other female platy) and one of my mollie females again appear to be pregnant. Their bellies are significantly larger than the other female of their kind. And I know they are still having fry from first pregnancy because all of my males have died.
                                                                             
                                                                            So ... should I go ahead and isolate both pregnant females in breeder box, since I can tell they are pregnant? It was a royal PAIN to go chasing after fry, trying to net them and move them so they wouldn't get eaten. I'd really like to avoid that if at all possible. I have no idea how long after they APPEAR to be pregnant that they will give birth. Is it safe to go ahead and run the risk of isolating them early? Or will less fry survive if the mothers are isolated before their due time than if the mothers eat them??
                                                                             
                                                                            The breeder box that I have has got a grate at the bottom for the fry to go into where the mothers can't eat them, and the box can be divided to hold two mothers.
                                                                             
                                                                            Erin
                                                                            my messenger ID's ...
                                                                            Yahoo! messenger : vampifan22
                                                                            MSN messenger (no email please!) : witchywmn42@...
                                                                            AIM : WtchyMm
                                                                            visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 836 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                             
                                                                             Okayyy ... um, I have a brown thumb and do not have the set up for live plants. We had some artificial plants, a good bit of gravel, and a log in the tank which I thought would be sufficient for the fry to hide in last time. The mollies made it through, but the platys got gobbled up.
                                                                            Erin
                                                                            my messenger ID's ...
                                                                            Yahoo! messenger : vampifan22
                                                                            MSN messenger (no email please!) : witchywmn42@...
                                                                            AIM : WtchyMm
                                                                            visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                             
                                                                            Date: 02/17/04 23:18:55
                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                             
                                                                            My Platty fry, or maybe Platty fry in general naturally located in a Java-Moss arrangement, and stayed there.
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 837 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                             
                                                                            Floating plants are simply & easy, great hiding for the fry. I've managed to keep mine alive and I definitely don't have a green thumb!
                                                                             
                                                                            Theresa
                                                                             
                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:32 AM
                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?

                                                                             
                                                                             Okayyy ... um, I have a brown thumb and do not have the set up for live plants. We had some artificial plants, a good bit of gravel, and a log in the tank which I thought would be sufficient for the fry to hide in last time. The mollies made it through, but the platys got gobbled up.
                                                                            Erin
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                             
                                                                            Date: 02/17/04 23:18:55
                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                             
                                                                            My Platty fry, or maybe Platty fry in general naturally located in a Java-Moss arrangement, and stayed there.

                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 838 From: John Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                            I'm waiting to see about my green thumb! I have just set up a 4ft tank for plants and community fish. I started off with a heater cable with some plant nutrient granules about 2" then coarse gravel again about 2". I've around 15-20 plants in there. I'm going to rig up a CO2 system to it when I can.
                                                                             
                                                                            I'm interested in hearing from anyone else who may have tried planted aquariums. I find that geting hold of plants is the hard bit. my LFS only seem to sell the same old boring plants. Anyone in the UK got any suggestions?
                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:32 PM
                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?

                                                                             
                                                                            Floating plants are simply & easy, great hiding for the fry. I've managed to keep mine alive and I definitely don't have a green thumb!
                                                                             
                                                                            Theresa
                                                                             
                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:32 AM
                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?

                                                                             
                                                                             Okayyy ... um, I have a brown thumb and do not have the set up for live plants. We had some artificial plants, a good bit of gravel, and a log in the tank which I thought would be sufficient for the fry to hide in last time. The mollies made it through, but the platys got gobbled up.
                                                                            Erin
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                             
                                                                            Date: 02/17/04 23:18:55
                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                             
                                                                            My Platty fry, or maybe Platty fry in general naturally located in a Java-Moss arrangement, and stayed there.


                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 839 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                            Subject: new tank
                                                                            I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                            and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                            patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                            before adding my first fish...

                                                                            I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                            try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.


                                                                            I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                            online somebody would be kind enough to suggest




                                                                            Tony
                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 840 From: amalthea x Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                            Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                              I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                              and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                              patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                              before adding my first fish...
                                                                                                                 
                                                                              I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                              try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.


                                                                              I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                              online somebody would be kind enough to suggest




                                                                              Tony





                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 841 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                              Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                              The LFS gave me some suggestions on a gravel mixture that includes some nutrients for the plants. I told him what I was looking to do and that was his suggestion... does that sound right?

                                                                              T



                                                                              At 04:50 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:
                                                                              i wouldn't add any plants to a perfectly clean and new tank as there's nothing for them to feed on, they'll do better if the water is set up a bit. there are a ton of places to find plants, it depends on exactly what you want, but aside from LFS' i've had some good luck on ebay. enter "live plants" there and a ton will come up...
                                                                              amalthea
                                                                              On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 04:38PM, Tony Bittick <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                              >
                                                                              ><<Original Attached>>


                                                                               
                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

                                                                              <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                   FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                                              <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                                                   http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                               
                                                                              I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                              and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                              patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                              before adding my first fish...
                                                                                                                 
                                                                              I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                              try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.


                                                                              I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                              online somebody would be kind enough to suggest




                                                                              Tony





                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 842 From: amalthea x Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                              Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                The LFS gave me some suggestions on a gravel mixture that includes some nutrients for the plants. I told him what I was looking to do and that was his suggestion... does that sound right?

                                                                                T



                                                                                At 04:50 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                i wouldn't add any plants to a perfectly clean and new tank as there's nothing for them to feed on, they'll do better if the water is set up a bit. there are a ton of places to find plants, it depends on exactly what you want, but aside from LFS' i've had some good luck on ebay. enter "live plants" there and a ton will come up...
                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 04:38PM, Tony Bittick <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                >
                                                                                ><<Original Attached>>


                                                                                 
                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

                                                                                <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                     FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                                                     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                 
                                                                                I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                                and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                                patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                                before adding my first fish...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                                try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.


                                                                                I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                                online somebody would be kind enough to suggest




                                                                                Tony





                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 843 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                                I think you're right about belly size fooling you ... because I went ahead and put both of the fish that I THOUGHT were pregnant into the breeder tank, and lo and behold today their bellies look normal again, and there was nothing in the bottom of the breeder but a bunch of fish poop. *blush* Sooo I guess they weren't ready to have fry, after all, but just really had to go!
                                                                                 
                                                                                I think they had fry about two weeks ago ... two weeks was the time period given on some website or other (not sure of link) about when the fry should be ready to be released into the main tank.  And this Friday is the date that I told my daughter's teacher that the babies SHOULD be ready for adoption. (as long as the class doesn't mind having teeny fish, I don't mind ... the teachers have kept classroom tanks before and there aren't any other fish going into the tank, except for I think a pleco, and I've never seen a pleco bother other fish.) So I guess I jumped the gun on this one, and will go ahead and release the two fish back into main tank. They're really unhappy in the breeder box. :(
                                                                                 
                                                                                I guess it won't hurt anything to just go netting after babies when they finally do have them. It's just a pain in the rear! 
                                                                                 
                                                                                Erin
                                                                                my messenger ID's ...
                                                                                Yahoo! messenger : vampifan22
                                                                                MSN messenger (no email please!) : witchywmn42@...
                                                                                AIM : WtchyMm
                                                                                visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                 
                                                                                Date: 02/18/04 07:23:38
                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                                 
                                                                                You mentioned belly size and I found out a month ago that the belly size can sometimes fool you.   I got a green swordtail that from my LFS and she was huge... I thought for sure we were going to have babies in the bag on the 10minute drive home.    I got her home and put her right into the breeding net..... and NOTHING..... 2 1/2 weeks later she finally delivered over 60 fry. she never looked any bigger the day she had the fry than she did the day I brought her home and she still looked huge a few days after she had all of those babies.
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 844 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: new tank

                                                                                The gravel mixture is good enough, but as with other gravel based fertilizers, will need time to mature and collect organic matter to be available for the plants. A handful of peatmoss above 1” of gravel, topped with 2” of gravel in a 55 gallon would be great and better then the gravel mix. If you are looking for a tank dedicated to plants, the scenario will be different and you need more then just gravel. I believe in using natural stuff rather then chemically created gravel additives. If its Laterite, it will need time to mature that can be as long as 6 months.

                                                                                 

                                                                                But yes, you can start with plants. They may suffer initially but will take the grip finally.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Nim

                                                                                 

                                                                                 


                                                                                From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                Sent: 18 February 2004 21:53
                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new tank

                                                                                 

                                                                                The LFS gave me some suggestions on a gravel mixture that includes some nutrients for the plants. I told him what I was looking to do and that was his suggestion... does that sound right?

                                                                                T



                                                                                At 04:50 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:

                                                                                i wouldn't add any plants to a perfectly clean and new tank as there's nothing for them to feed on, they'll do better if the water is set up a bit. there are a ton of places to find plants, it depends on exactly what you want, but aside from LFS' i've had some good luck on ebay. enter "live plants" there and a ton will come up...
                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 04:38PM, Tony Bittick <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                >
                                                                                ><<Original Attached>>


                                                                                 
                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

                                                                                <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                     FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                                                     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                 
                                                                                I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                                and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                                patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                                before adding my first fish...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                                try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.


                                                                                I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                                online somebody would be kind enough to suggest




                                                                                Tony




                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 845 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: new tank

                                                                                Tony,

                                                                                 

                                                                                Although a new tank is not good enough for plants directly, but what are you planning for the substrate? If you are using a rich plant based substrate, then you can add a little peat moss below the substrate to help provide organic matter in the gravel for plants to kickstart. Well, even if you are using normal gravel and you don’t plan to add fish for a couple of weeks, you can do this with normal gravel as well but not with sand. In sand it will rot away and cause more problem.

                                                                                 

                                                                                You can also use Fluorish tabs to kickstart the plants and is a very good idea as it is a concept of a fishless cycle. You can start adding very little fishfood on a daily basis in the tank for a week to help it cycle. Once the cycle has properly started, you can stop putting fishfood (1 couple of weeks) and when the nitrite levels start to go down, you can start adding fish as well in safe conditions. This will happen without putting fish at risk so is a good idea.

                                                                                 

                                                                                There are many more options that can be discussed depending on your substrate and lighting and plants planned.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Nim

                                                                                 

                                                                                 


                                                                                From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                Sent: 18 February 2004 21:38
                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new tank

                                                                                 

                                                                                I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                                and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                                patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                                before adding my first fish...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                                try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.


                                                                                I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                                online somebody would be kind enough to suggest




                                                                                Tony






                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 846 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                In some parts of Europe, fishless planted aquariums are prominent, and some of the best sources for plants I've seen on the net are European.
                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 847 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                                 I noticed that my mollies especially look pregnant after they eat.... even the males, especially the younger ones.... LOL
                                                                                 
                                                                                If you don't want to try to catch them from the main tank, I would do the counting thing and around 25-28 days take the mom to be and put her in the breeder.... within a couple of days she should have the babies.....   I personally prefer the breeding nets to the plastic boxes...... They are alot roomier and less stressful on the mom... I paid just 4$ for each of mine... I got 2 at walmart and 1 at the pet store.. They are about the same price I think as a single box breeder.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Good luck and keep us posted.
                                                                                Kelly
                                                                                 
                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                 
                                                                                Date: 02/18/04 17:11:39
                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                                 
                                                                                I think you're right about belly size fooling you ... because I went ahead and put both of the fish that I THOUGHT were pregnant into the breeder tank, and lo and behold today their bellies look normal again, and there was nothing in the bottom of the breeder but a bunch of fish poop. *blush* Sooo I guess they weren't ready to have fry, after all, but just really had to go!
                                                                                 
                                                                                I think they had fry about two weeks ago ... two weeks was the time period given on some website or other (not sure of link) about when the fry should be ready to be released into the main tank.  And this Friday is the date that I told my daughter's teacher that the babies SHOULD be ready for adoption. (as long as the class doesn't mind having teeny fish, I don't mind ... the teachers have kept classroom tanks before and there aren't any other fish going into the tank, except for I think a pleco, and I've never seen a pleco bother other fish.) So I guess I jumped the gun on this one, and will go ahead and release the two fish back into main tank. They're really unhappy in the breeder box. :(
                                                                                 
                                                                                I guess it won't hurt anything to just go netting after babies when they finally do have them. It's just a pain in the rear! 
                                                                                 
                                                                                Erin
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                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                 
                                                                                Date: 02/18/04 07:23:38
                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I isolate my pregnant females?
                                                                                 
                                                                                You mentioned belly size and I found out a month ago that the belly size can sometimes fool you.   I got a green swordtail that from my LFS and she was huge... I thought for sure we were going to have babies in the bag on the 10minute drive home.    I got her home and put her right into the breeding net..... and NOTHING..... 2 1/2 weeks later she finally delivered over 60 fry. she never looked any bigger the day she had the fry than she did the day I brought her home and she still looked huge a few days after she had all of those babies.
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 848 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                My first planted tank I cycled with plants. I have anacharis, hornwort, moneywort, and water wisteria...basic plants but they're doing well. I have a flourite substrate that I added a handful of gravel to from one of my established tanks.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Theresa
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 4:38 PM
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new tank

                                                                                I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                                and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                                patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                                before adding my first fish...
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                                try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.


                                                                                I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                                online somebody would be kind enough to suggest




                                                                                Tony





                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 849 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                 So the local fish store (Petsmart actually) recommended putting pieces of zucchini into the tank for the fish to eat. Seems that the fish like it. They said put a chunk of fresh zucchini in there, but they didn't say how much.
                                                                                 
                                                                                I've got a fresh zucchini that I just bought yesterday sitting in my crisper drawer of the refrigerator, and before I wash it and cut it up and put it into baggies to be frozen, I was wondering what size should I cut the zucchini up into? I've got two mollies, two platys and a pleco in my 15 gallon tank, and I've got about 20 fry (mollie and platy) in my smaller "baby tank". I'm thinking the fry are still too small to be able to eat the zucchini, so I wasn't going to even bother putting any into their tank.
                                                                                 
                                                                                So ... how big do I cut it, and how long can a piece of zucchini be left in the tank before it gets gross?
                                                                                 
                                                                                I bought the zucchini especially for the fish, because none of the HUMANS in my household can stand eating the stuff. :)
                                                                                 
                                                                                Erin
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                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 850 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                depending on how big the fish are (particularly the pleco) what you can
                                                                                do is cut a 1/4" thick round of the zucchini off. if it's a large one,
                                                                                cut that in half, if it's a little one then you can use that whole
                                                                                piece. stick a plant weight through it so it'll sink and you can leave
                                                                                it there about 2 days or so (though it may be all gone by then.) my
                                                                                large pleco is eating a piece of cucumber at the moment and yesterday
                                                                                had some carrot. they also like broccoli, and dark lettuce varieties...
                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                On Feb 18, 2004, at 8:31 PM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                                                                >  So the local fish store (Petsmart actually) recommended putting
                                                                                > pieces of zucchini into the tank for the fish to eat. Seems that the
                                                                                > fish like it. They said put a chunk of fresh zucchini in there, but
                                                                                > they didn't say how much.
                                                                                >  
                                                                                > I've got a fresh zucchini that I just bought yesterday sitting in my
                                                                                > crisper drawer of the refrigerator, and before I wash it and cut it up
                                                                                > and put it into baggies to be frozen, I was wondering what size should
                                                                                > I cut the zucchini up into? I've got two mollies, two platys and a
                                                                                > pleco in my 15 gallon tank, and I've got about 20 fry (mollie and
                                                                                > platy) in my smaller "baby tank". I'm thinking the fry are still too
                                                                                > small to be able to eat the zucchini, so I wasn't going to even bother
                                                                                > putting any into their tank.
                                                                                >  
                                                                                > So ... how big do I cut it, and how long can a piece of zucchini be
                                                                                > left in the tank before it gets gross?
                                                                                >  
                                                                                > I bought the zucchini especially for the fish, because none of the
                                                                                > HUMANS in my household can stand eating the stuff. :)
                                                                                >  
                                                                                > Erin
                                                                                > CelticParents
                                                                                > my messenger ID's ...
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                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 851 From: Mejim6@aol.com Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                In a message dated 2/18/04 9:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, celticmommy@... writes:


                                                                                So ... how big do I cut it, and how long can a piece of zucchini be left in the tank before it gets gross?


                                                                                I parboil my zucchini slices before I drop hem in the tank.  This makes it softer and it also makes it sink to the bottom where catfish will get it.  

                                                                                Melissa in Ohio
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 852 From: Jobin Hume Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Question re: powder blue gourami
                                                                                Hi all:

                                                                                I have a quick question - a couple of days ago I
                                                                                added a powder blue dwarf gourami to my 29 gallon
                                                                                tank. I already had 2 playts and 6 rasboras.

                                                                                The guy at the fish store recommended only getting one
                                                                                gourami because they would fight. The other fish in
                                                                                the tank are fine, but the gourami spends all day,
                                                                                every day swimming up and down against the side of the
                                                                                tank.

                                                                                Does he think he is going to get out? Is he
                                                                                interacting with his own reflection?

                                                                                Long story short - is it true there should only be one
                                                                                in the tank or do you all think I should get him a
                                                                                friend?

                                                                                Thanks!

                                                                                Jobin
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 853 From: samantha_e67 Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
                                                                                Hi everyone, I could really use some advice.

                                                                                We have a 10 gallon tank and bought 6 fish 4 months ago. 4 mollies
                                                                                and 2 chinese algae eaters. The mollies died during the first 10
                                                                                days, one gave birth and we got to watch the babies for a week
                                                                                before the last one died. Very interesting, although sad. The 2
                                                                                chinese algae eaters died this weekend while we were away. I had
                                                                                been told that it's ok to leave them for a few days without feeding
                                                                                them, was this the wrong info, or do you think they may have died
                                                                                due to other reasons? Here's the weird bit, one was intact, the
                                                                                other, well, I only found the head. Could it have been attacked?
                                                                                Or do you think it decomposed quickly?

                                                                                Anyway, here are the three more important questions I have...

                                                                                1. If the ammonia, nitrate and ph levels are ok, should I change
                                                                                all or part of the water? Now that there are no fish, what sort of
                                                                                cycling will it go through? I just don't know what to do here.

                                                                                2. If the levels are off, should I start with new water, or ammend
                                                                                before I get new fish?

                                                                                3. I am not getting any more mollies. What other fish are good for
                                                                                beginners, and attractive enough for young kids to be interested
                                                                                in? I've been hearing about Danios. I would like some schooling
                                                                                fish, and also some small bright coloured fish. Any ideas? I've
                                                                                read so many books and I think I've overloaded myself on
                                                                                information. I can't even find the ones the books suggest. Should
                                                                                I get bottom feeders? One site I went to today said not to bother,
                                                                                it's better to simply siphon each week, and get more interesting
                                                                                fish.

                                                                                I know this is a lot of questions. I'm not in any hurry, I just
                                                                                want to do it right. So if you can help with just one, or have some
                                                                                insight into the algae eater mystery, I would be VERY appreciative.

                                                                                At this point, I just want someone to say "do A, B and C" and hand
                                                                                over the fish lol. Maybe if it were easier it wouldn't be as much
                                                                                fun.

                                                                                Samantha
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 854 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                 
                                                                                My fish like cucumber (I attach it to a rock), broccoli (same), and shelled peas.
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                Theresa
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:31 PM
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] zucchini in tanks??

                                                                                 So the local fish store (Petsmart actually) recommended putting pieces of zucchini into the tank for the fish to eat. Seems that the fish like it. They said put a chunk of fresh zucchini in there, but they didn't say how much.
                                                                                 
                                                                                I've got a fresh zucchini that I just bought yesterday sitting in my crisper drawer of the refrigerator, and before I wash it and cut it up and put it into baggies to be frozen, I was wondering what size should I cut the zucchini up into? I've got two mollies, two platys and a pleco in my 15 gallon tank, and I've got about 20 fry (mollie and platy) in my smaller "baby tank". I'm thinking the fry are still too small to be able to eat the zucchini, so I wasn't going to even bother putting any into their tank.
                                                                                 
                                                                                So ... how big do I cut it, and how long can a piece of zucchini be left in the tank before it gets gross?
                                                                                 
                                                                                I bought the zucchini especially for the fish, because none of the HUMANS in my household can stand eating the stuff. :)
                                                                                 
                                                                                Erin
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 855 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Question re: powder blue gourami
                                                                                Me and my gouramis :)
                                                                                 
                                                                                At one point I had 3 in my 29g, all males: dwarf, powder blue, and a 3 spot. From day one I called the powder blue 'Grumpy'. He very often exhibited the behavior you mention, swimming up and down against the side of the tank. In the month or so I had him I never saw him eat (although I did see him poop lol). One day he started acting lethargic, not exactly sick, and that's when the other two gouramis started picking/nipping at him. Within hours he was dead.
                                                                                 
                                                                                The remaining 2 are fine in the tank, plenty of room, hiding places, and floating plants which they really like. The 3 spot is an eating machine, gobbles up flake and frozen bloodworms...he even get into the bottom feeding action with my queen loaches and peppered cories. My krib pair act as king and queen of the tank except when it comes to feeding time and the 3 spot lol
                                                                                 
                                                                                Occasionally when they cross paths (3 spot & dwarf) there's a bit of territorial arguing but nothing long lasting or serious.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Just because of my personal experience I wouldn't get another powder blue, or really any more gourami in general. I tend to like friendly fish, schoolers or those the enjoy being in pairs. Again because of my experience I don't think your gourami needs a friend but is just acting like a typical gourami. JMHO :)
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                Theresa
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Jobin Hume
                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 10:23 PM
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Question re: powder blue gourami

                                                                                Hi all:

                                                                                I have a quick question -  a couple of days ago I
                                                                                added a powder blue dwarf gourami to my 29 gallon
                                                                                tank.  I already had 2 playts and 6 rasboras.

                                                                                The guy at the fish store recommended only getting one
                                                                                gourami because they would fight.  The other fish in
                                                                                the tank are fine, but the gourami spends all day,
                                                                                every day swimming up and down against the side of the
                                                                                tank.

                                                                                Does he think he is going to get out?  Is he
                                                                                interacting with his own reflection?

                                                                                Long story short - is it true there should only be one
                                                                                in the tank or do you all think I should get him a
                                                                                friend?

                                                                                Thanks!

                                                                                Jobin
                                                                                 
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 856 From: dolph72.geo Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
                                                                                It may be a good idea if your fish have died to not reuse any of
                                                                                the water. Something in the water may have hurt the fish not related
                                                                                to the ammonia nitrates etc. It is possible that something bad
                                                                                killed one of them and when the other one ate him got sick from it as
                                                                                well. I am sure there are other possibilities as well. With that
                                                                                being said Chinese algae eaters are probably not a good idea for
                                                                                really any tank. They can be quite aggressive and dont clean too
                                                                                much algae. That might have been what happened to the mollies
                                                                                depending on how the tank situation was, as mollies tend to like
                                                                                saltier warmer tanks.

                                                                                With that being said I would recommend mollies again. They are
                                                                                the hardiest fish I have ever had and tend to produce many offspring
                                                                                that can survive in a community tank somehow. However if you are not
                                                                                interested in those the next best option may be platies or swordtails.
                                                                                They tend to have an array of brilliant colors and can survive some
                                                                                tough conditions. People usually recommend you purchase them in
                                                                                threes. If you decide on a bright schooling fish neon tetras are
                                                                                nice to have especially for a smaller tank. You could go for the
                                                                                smaller blue neons which a 10 gallon tank could hold 6-8 of, jumbo
                                                                                blue neons which you could probably do 4-6 of, black neons which you
                                                                                could do 4-6 of, or you could even do white cloud minnows that your
                                                                                tank could hold 6-8 of. If you would like to get a scavenger type
                                                                                you should probably get an otocinclus. They do not get too big and
                                                                                keep a tank nice and clean.


                                                                                Hopefully this helps you in some way.

                                                                                Randy
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 857 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: Question re: powder blue gourami
                                                                                Hi jobin,

                                                                                Do you have plants in your tank, and express ways to
                                                                                escape from the predators ??

                                                                                if yes then yes you can go in for another gourami, it
                                                                                should be fine...SuNnY !

                                                                                --- Jobin Hume <jh789@...> wrote:
                                                                                > Hi all:
                                                                                >
                                                                                > I have a quick question - a couple of days ago I
                                                                                > added a powder blue dwarf gourami to my 29 gallon
                                                                                > tank. I already had 2 playts and 6 rasboras.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > The guy at the fish store recommended only getting
                                                                                > one
                                                                                > gourami because they would fight. The other fish in
                                                                                > the tank are fine, but the gourami spends all day,
                                                                                > every day swimming up and down against the side of
                                                                                > the
                                                                                > tank.
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Does he think he is going to get out? Is he
                                                                                > interacting with his own reflection?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Long story short - is it true there should only be
                                                                                > one
                                                                                > in the tank or do you all think I should get him a
                                                                                > friend?
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Thanks!
                                                                                >
                                                                                > Jobin
                                                                                >


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                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 858 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/18/2004
                                                                                Subject: stress zyme or cycle?
                                                                                Does stress zyme or cycle work. or is it just so the companies can
                                                                                make more money. any help would be great.

                                                                                Eric
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 859 From: John Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                sorry to ask but what is zucchini ? I guess thats me being from the uk.
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                From: Mejim6@...
                                                                                Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 2:44 AM
                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] zucchini in tanks??

                                                                                In a message dated 2/18/04 9:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, celticmommy@... writes:


                                                                                So ... how big do I cut it, and how long can a piece of zucchini be left in the tank before it gets gross?


                                                                                I parboil my zucchini slices before I drop hem in the tank.  This makes it softer and it also makes it sink to the bottom where catfish will get it.  

                                                                                Melissa in Ohio

                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 860 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: freshwater clams need info
                                                                                does anyone have freshwater clams? or any info on them? ie. water?
                                                                                food? lighting? I finally found a pet store that has some but they
                                                                                really couldn't tell me much about them and haven't been able to find
                                                                                much on the net about them. thank you Sherrie
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 861 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: what kind of fish is that? on the main group page ?
                                                                                very nice looking fish!!! I love the colors :) also there has been a
                                                                                few fish on the main page that I haven't seen before, is there a
                                                                                place that says what they are or maybe the person who does the page
                                                                                could put the name of the fish some where under it thanks sherrie :)
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 862 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: what kind of fish is that? on the main group page ?

                                                                                Sherrie,

                                                                                Its most probably Apistogramma agassizi. A South American Dwarf Cichlid, many times having much more jubilant colours then in the picture.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Nim

                                                                                 

                                                                                 


                                                                                From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@...]
                                                                                Sent: 19 February 2004 10:19
                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] what kind of fish is that? on the main group page ?

                                                                                 

                                                                                very nice looking fish!!! I love the colors :) also there has been a
                                                                                few fish on the main page that I haven't seen before, is there a
                                                                                place that says what they are or maybe the person who does the page
                                                                                could put the name of the fish some where  under it thanks sherrie :)


                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 863 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: stress zyme or cycle?

                                                                                Eric,

                                                                                 

                                                                                It does work in some cases, however it is very debatable again as to how effective they are to help maturing a tank. The claims of storing millions of live bacteria in a bottle on the shelf at room temperature are hard to believe though, but they do have some enzymes that help the growth of beneficial bacteria. Personally, I have never had success with them and sticking to the traditional cycling method is the most reliable.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Nim

                                                                                 

                                                                                 


                                                                                From: red_5sw@... [mailto:red_5sw@...]
                                                                                Sent: 19 February 2004 05:50
                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] stress zyme or cycle?

                                                                                 

                                                                                Does stress zyme or cycle work. or is it just so the companies can
                                                                                make more money. any help would be great.

                                                                                Eric


                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 864 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??

                                                                                Erin,

                                                                                It would be a good idea to give omnivorous fish some vegetable diet as well in time to time to maintain their health. I normally use a boiled Lettuce leaf and they tear it apart like a piranha would to its prey. I however could not get them to peck at zucchini or cucumber so I resort to the lettuce leaf. Manu fish, especially African cichlids need vegetable diet regularly and so do many livebearers. But don’t make them habitual to it in long term as they might start relishing your live plants after that. I feed them lettuce once a week only. Though they get a different food everyday of the week.

                                                                                Nim

                                                                                 

                                                                                 


                                                                                From: Erin Vankouwenberg [mailto:celticmommy@...]
                                                                                Sent: 19 February 2004 01:31
                                                                                To: Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] zucchini in tanks??

                                                                                 

                                                                                 So the local fish store (Petsmart actually) recommended putting pieces of zucchini into the tank for the fish to eat. Seems that the fish like it. They said put a chunk of fresh zucchini in there, but they didn't say how much.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I've got a fresh zucchini that I just bought yesterday sitting in my crisper drawer of the refrigerator, and before I wash it and cut it up and put it into baggies to be frozen, I was wondering what size should I cut the zucchini up into? I've got two mollies, two platys and a pleco in my 15 gallon tank, and I've got about 20 fry (mollie and platy) in my smaller "baby tank". I'm thinking the fry are still too small to be able to eat the zucchini, so I wasn't going to even bother putting any into their tank.

                                                                                 

                                                                                So ... how big do I cut it, and how long can a piece of zucchini be left in the tank before it gets gross?

                                                                                 

                                                                                I bought the zucchini especially for the fish, because none of the HUMANS in my household can stand eating the stuff. :)

                                                                                 

                                                                                Erin

                                                                                CelticParents

                                                                                my messenger ID's ...

                                                                                Yahoo! messenger : vampifan22

                                                                                MSN messenger (no email please!) : witchywmn42@...

                                                                                AIM : WtchyMm

                                                                                visit my Yahoo! groups ...

                                                                                CelticParents Incredimail

                                                                                CelticParents Updates

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 865 From: daniel_roachus Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "John"
                                                                                <john@c...> wrote:
                                                                                > sorry to ask but what is zucchini ? I guess thats me being from the
                                                                                uk.

                                                                                we call it courgette!
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 866 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                Thank you!

                                                                                Erin
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                                                                                -------Original Message-------

                                                                                From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Date: 02/18/04 21:19:52
                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] zucchini in tanks??

                                                                                depending on how big the fish are (particularly the pleco) what you can
                                                                                do is cut a 1/4" thick round of the zucchini off. if it's a large one,
                                                                                cut that in half, if it's a little one then you can use that whole
                                                                                piece. stick a plant weight through it so it'll sink and you can leave
                                                                                it there about 2 days or so (though it may be all gone by then.) my
                                                                                large pleco is eating a piece of cucumber at the moment and yesterday
                                                                                had some carrot. they also like broccoli, and dark lettuce varieties...
                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 867 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: Question re: powder blue gourami
                                                                                All of my fish except for the pleco do that ... swimming up and down with
                                                                                their noses pressed to the side of the tank. I guessed they were interacting
                                                                                with their reflections. But then both my types of fish are schooling fish,
                                                                                and are below minimum recommended due to the males of both kinds dying and
                                                                                the fry not being big enough yet.

                                                                                I don't know anything about gourami's, but that was just my guess.

                                                                                Erin
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                                                                                -------Original Message-------

                                                                                From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Date: 02/18/04 22:23:13
                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Question re: powder blue gourami


                                                                                The other fish in
                                                                                the tank are fine, but the gourami spends all day,
                                                                                every day swimming up and down against the side of the
                                                                                tank.

                                                                                Does he think he is going to get out? Is he
                                                                                interacting with his own reflection?
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 868 From: John Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                Thanks! funny how different places call things completely different
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:27 PM
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: zucchini in tanks??

                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "John"
                                                                                <john@c...> wrote:
                                                                                > sorry to ask but what is zucchini ? I guess thats me being from the
                                                                                uk.

                                                                                we call it courgette!




                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 869 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                It's a green squash, similar in shape to a cucumber, but not as crispy; 
                                                                                 
                                                                                Erin
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                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                 
                                                                                Date: 02/19/04 03:58:28
                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                 
                                                                                sorry to ask but what is zucchini ? I guess thats me being from the uk.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 870 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
                                                                                Platies are colorful, fun to watch, and livebearers. Best to keep in a ratio of 1M/2F.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Zebra danios are hardy and fast. If they're not in a good-sized school they tend to be fin-nippers though.
                                                                                 
                                                                                There are lots of interesting tetras. I have lemons, black phantoms, glowlights, and cardinals. I've heard cardinals can sometimes be difficult to keep but I've never had any problems with mine. Neons are pretty too but prone to Neon Tetra disease.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Cories are fun bottom feeders and many are small. I have 4 peppered cories in my 29g and 3 leopard cories in my 10g. Regardless of having bottom feeders you will still need to vacuum.
                                                                                 
                                                                                A few days without feeding fish should be ok. I really hope you have better luck this time around.
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                Theresa
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                 
                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:08 PM
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Fish dead - starting over advice needed


                                                                                3.  I am not getting any more mollies.  What other fish are good for
                                                                                beginners, and attractive enough for young kids to be interested
                                                                                in?  I've been hearing about Danios.  I would like some schooling
                                                                                fish, and also some small bright coloured fish.  Any ideas?  I've
                                                                                read so many books and I think I've overloaded myself on
                                                                                information.  I can't even find the ones the books suggest.  Should
                                                                                I get bottom feeders?  One site I went to today said not to bother,
                                                                                it's better to simply siphon each week, and get more interesting
                                                                                fish.

                                                                                I know this is a lot of questions.  I'm not in any hurry, I just
                                                                                want to do it right.  So if you can help with just one, or have some
                                                                                insight into the algae eater mystery, I would be VERY appreciative.

                                                                                At this point, I just want someone to say "do A, B and C" and hand
                                                                                over the fish lol.  Maybe if it were easier it wouldn't be as much
                                                                                fun.

                                                                                Samantha
                                                                                 
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 871 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                Nim,
                                                                                I don't have any live plants, so I don't have to worry about that. I already give them a cube of tubifex worms once a week (which of course they don't finish so I end up netting it out of the tank a couple of hours later before it starts dissolving).
                                                                                 
                                                                                Erin
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                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                 
                                                                                Date: 02/19/04 05:53:35
                                                                                Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] zucchini in tanks??
                                                                                 

                                                                                 But don’t make them habitual to it in long term as they might start relishing your live plants after that. I feed them lettuce once a week only.   

                                                                                 
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 872 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
                                                                                 
                                                                                I'd like to clarify a little bit ... FANCY mollies are very hardy. The black ones are not, they are susceptible to all kinds of things. Of course I didn't find this out until AFTER all three of my black mollies died and we took one of the corpses in to petsmart to see if the lady there could help us figure out what was going on.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Black mollies, because they have been bred for centuries to GET that lovely black color, are very particular with their water conditions. If the slightest thing goes wrong, they are prone to dying off, and that can be discouraging. The fancy mollies are cheaper, hardier, and brighter colored. Right now I have a dark orange speckled one and a very light colored one with an orange fin. These two are very pretty in our tank, and even have been named. They're tough cookies. :)
                                                                                 
                                                                                Platys are also great ... we've only lost one platy in the time we've had them, and the ones that my husband picked out are quite lovely to look at. They are dark orange with black fins and tails.
                                                                                 
                                                                                We tend to add one more tablespoon of aquarium salt than the package recommends to our tank (that has mollies, platys and a pleco) and all of the fish are doing quite well in those conditions. We also keep our temperature at about 80 degrees Fahrenheit (thermometer has that at about 22 degrees Celsius unless I'm reading it wrong), as Mollies prefer warmer temps and this is what we've found keeps all the fish happiest. Mollies also enjoy eating algae! I didn't know that until the Mollies kept stealing the algae tablets that I dropped in for the plecostamus.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Erin
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                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                 
                                                                                Date: 02/19/04 00:06:09
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
                                                                                 
                                                                                 With that being said I would recommend mollies again.  They are
                                                                                the hardiest fish I have ever had and tend to produce many offspring
                                                                                that can survive in a community tank somehow.  However if you are not
                                                                                interested in those the next best option may be platies or swordtails.
                                                                                They tend to have an array of brilliant colors and can survive some
                                                                                tough conditions. 
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 873 From: samantha_e67 Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                Thanks all for the suggestions re my last question. I now have
                                                                                another.

                                                                                Can someone tell me if there is really any point in getting bottom
                                                                                feeders? All of the ones that I have seen are just plain ugly, and
                                                                                the only reason I got them was because so many people said I
                                                                                just "had" to, and that I wouldn't have to clean the tank so much.
                                                                                Is this true? I am beginning to think I'd need a heck of a lot to
                                                                                really make a difference. I would rather get a couple more pretty
                                                                                fish that I enjoy watching. I'm not afraid of a little scrubbing,
                                                                                and I think I would enjoy my fish more.

                                                                                Thoughts?

                                                                                Samantha
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 874 From: Ken Grolle Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                That's almost like saying the world would be better off without
                                                                                lawyers. -Ken
                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 875 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders

                                                                                Not Really Samantha,

                                                                                But having bottom feeders help in removing food that’s rotting away and wasted at the bottom where most fish cannot reach. There are many splendid bottom feeders. Clown Loaches are one of the most stunning of them, Khuli loaches, many loach species, a Lot of Synodontis Catfish, corydoras come in various shades and colours but I agree as some people do not like their face. There are also a lot of scavenging catfish species that remain small and do a good cleanup world. You can try www.planetcatfish.com to find good specimens of your choice or www.loaches.com for loaches of your choice.

                                                                                Nim

                                                                                 

                                                                                 


                                                                                From: samantha_e67 [mailto:samantha_e67@...]
                                                                                Sent: 19 February 2004 18:23
                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bottom Feeders

                                                                                 

                                                                                Thanks all for the suggestions re my last question.  I now have
                                                                                another.

                                                                                Can someone tell me if there is really any point in getting bottom
                                                                                feeders?  All of the ones that I have seen are just plain ugly, and
                                                                                the only reason I got them was because so many people said I
                                                                                just "had" to, and that I wouldn't have to clean the tank so much. 
                                                                                Is this true?  I am beginning to think I'd need a heck of a lot to
                                                                                really make a difference.  I would rather get a couple more pretty
                                                                                fish that I enjoy watching.  I'm not afraid of a little scrubbing,
                                                                                and I think I would enjoy my fish more. 

                                                                                Thoughts?

                                                                                Samantha



                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 876 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                 I honestly am now thinking that when our plecostamus gets too big for the tank, we won't need to get any other algae eater. Our tank doesn't sit in direct sunlight, so the algae growth isn't really bad. The water starts turning green about once a week, which is when we do our partial water changes anyway. I guess it depends on whether your tank sits in sunlight and whether you have live plants in it. I'm guessing that with live plants in the tank the algae growth is more pronounced.
                                                                                 
                                                                                Erin
                                                                                my messenger ID's ...
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                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                 
                                                                                Date: 02/19/04 13:25:05
                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bottom Feeders
                                                                                 

                                                                                Can someone tell me if there is really any point in getting bottom
                                                                                feeders?  All of the ones that I have seen are just plain ugly, and
                                                                                the only reason I got them was because so many people said I
                                                                                just "had" to, and that I wouldn't have to clean the tank so much. 
                                                                                Is this true?  
                                                                                >> snip <<
                                                                                 I would rather get a couple more pretty
                                                                                fish that I enjoy watching.  I'm not afraid of a little scrubbing,
                                                                                and I think I would enjoy my fish more. 

                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 877 From: amalthea x Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                  Thanks all for the suggestions re my last question.  I now have
                                                                                  another.

                                                                                  Can someone tell me if there is really any point in getting bottom
                                                                                  feeders?  All of the ones that I have seen are just plain ugly, and
                                                                                  the only reason I got them was because so many people said I
                                                                                  just "had" to, and that I wouldn't have to clean the tank so much. 
                                                                                  Is this true?  I am beginning to think I'd need a heck of a lot to
                                                                                  really make a difference.  I would rather get a couple more pretty
                                                                                  fish that I enjoy watching.  I'm not afraid of a little scrubbing,
                                                                                  and I think I would enjoy my fish more. 

                                                                                  Thoughts?

                                                                                  Samantha


                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 878 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                  Nim...

                                                                                  Thanks for this advice. I'm about ready to do this and wanted to double check that I understand your instructions.

                                                                                  As it turns out money is a factor and it just so happens that we have a bunch of peatmoss available. So instead of going to the LFS and spending another $20 on his gravel mixture, I was hoping I could just mix in some peatmoss.

                                                                                  So do I have this right?

                                                                                  If I lay down about an inch of the gravel I have, and then mix in a handful of peatmoss and then cover it with another 2 inches of gravel I'll have a set up suitable for live plants?

                                                                                  Have I got this right?

                                                                                  Tony

                                                                                  At 05:15 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                  The gravel mixture is good enough, but as with other gravel based fertilizers, will need time to mature and collect organic matter to be available for the plants. A handful of peatmoss above 1� of gravel, topped with 2� of gravel in a 55 gallon would be great and better then the gravel mix. If you are looking for a tank dedicated to plants, the scenario will be different and you need more then just gravel. I believe in using natural stuff rather then chemically created gravel additives. If its Laterite, it will need time to mature that can be as long as 6 months.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  But yes, you can start with plants. They may suffer initially but will take the grip finally.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Nim
                                                                                   
                                                                                   

                                                                                  From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 18 February 2004 21:53
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new tank
                                                                                   
                                                                                  The LFS gave me some suggestions on a gravel mixture that includes some nutrients for the plants. I told him what I was looking to do and that was his suggestion... does that sound right?

                                                                                  T



                                                                                  At 04:50 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:

                                                                                  i wouldn't add any plants to a perfectly clean and new tank as there's nothing for them to feed on, they'll do better if the water is set up a bit. there are a ton of places to find plants, it depends on exactly what you want, but aside from LFS' i've had some good luck on ebay. enter "live plants" there and a ton will come up...
                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                  On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 04:38PM, Tony Bittick <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                  >
                                                                                  ><<Original Attached>>


                                                                                   
                                                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

                                                                                  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                       FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                                                       http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                   
                                                                                  I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                                  and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                                  patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                                  before adding my first fish...
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                  I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                                  try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.


                                                                                  I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                                  online somebody would be kind enough to suggest




                                                                                  Tony




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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 879 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                  Hi Samantha,

                                                                                  You can go in for ALBINO CORY's They are also fun to
                                                                                  watch but better kept in a group of 3+...

                                                                                  Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                                                                  --- samantha_e67 <samantha_e67@...> wrote:
                                                                                  > Thanks all for the suggestions re my last question.
                                                                                  > I now have
                                                                                  > another.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Can someone tell me if there is really any point in
                                                                                  > getting bottom
                                                                                  > feeders? All of the ones that I have seen are just
                                                                                  > plain ugly, and
                                                                                  > the only reason I got them was because so many
                                                                                  > people said I
                                                                                  > just "had" to, and that I wouldn't have to clean the
                                                                                  > tank so much.
                                                                                  > Is this true? I am beginning to think I'd need a
                                                                                  > heck of a lot to
                                                                                  > really make a difference. I would rather get a
                                                                                  > couple more pretty
                                                                                  > fish that I enjoy watching. I'm not afraid of a
                                                                                  > little scrubbing,
                                                                                  > and I think I would enjoy my fish more.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Thoughts?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Samantha
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >


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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 880 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Fish dead - starting over advice needed
                                                                                  Hi samantha,

                                                                                  u can go in for Danios as they are lively, hardy and
                                                                                  fun when in groups 3 - 4+
                                                                                  or
                                                                                  Neons or Cardinals if you want good colours but again
                                                                                  in group of 5+
                                                                                  or
                                                                                  platys, swortails, guppies

                                                                                  Hope this helps....SuNnY !

                                                                                  --- samantha_e67 <samantha_e67@...> wrote:
                                                                                  > Hi everyone, I could really use some advice.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > We have a 10 gallon tank and bought 6 fish 4 months
                                                                                  > ago. 4 mollies
                                                                                  > and 2 chinese algae eaters. The mollies died during
                                                                                  > the first 10
                                                                                  > days, one gave birth and we got to watch the babies
                                                                                  > for a week
                                                                                  > before the last one died. Very interesting, although
                                                                                  > sad. The 2
                                                                                  > chinese algae eaters died this weekend while we were
                                                                                  > away. I had
                                                                                  > been told that it's ok to leave them for a few days
                                                                                  > without feeding
                                                                                  > them, was this the wrong info, or do you think they
                                                                                  > may have died
                                                                                  > due to other reasons? Here's the weird bit, one was
                                                                                  > intact, the
                                                                                  > other, well, I only found the head. Could it have
                                                                                  > been attacked?
                                                                                  > Or do you think it decomposed quickly?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Anyway, here are the three more important questions
                                                                                  > I have...
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > 1. If the ammonia, nitrate and ph levels are ok,
                                                                                  > should I change
                                                                                  > all or part of the water? Now that there are no
                                                                                  > fish, what sort of
                                                                                  > cycling will it go through? I just don't know what
                                                                                  > to do here.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > 2. If the levels are off, should I start with new
                                                                                  > water, or ammend
                                                                                  > before I get new fish?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > 3. I am not getting any more mollies. What other
                                                                                  > fish are good for
                                                                                  > beginners, and attractive enough for young kids to
                                                                                  > be interested
                                                                                  > in? I've been hearing about Danios. I would like
                                                                                  > some schooling
                                                                                  > fish, and also some small bright coloured fish. Any
                                                                                  > ideas? I've
                                                                                  > read so many books and I think I've overloaded
                                                                                  > myself on
                                                                                  > information. I can't even find the ones the books
                                                                                  > suggest. Should
                                                                                  > I get bottom feeders? One site I went to today said
                                                                                  > not to bother,
                                                                                  > it's better to simply siphon each week, and get more
                                                                                  > interesting
                                                                                  > fish.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I know this is a lot of questions. I'm not in any
                                                                                  > hurry, I just
                                                                                  > want to do it right. So if you can help with just
                                                                                  > one, or have some
                                                                                  > insight into the algae eater mystery, I would be
                                                                                  > VERY appreciative.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > At this point, I just want someone to say "do A, B
                                                                                  > and C" and hand
                                                                                  > over the fish lol. Maybe if it were easier it
                                                                                  > wouldn't be as much
                                                                                  > fun.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Samantha
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >


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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 881 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                   
                                                                                  There's a difference too between algae eaters and bottom feeders.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Theresa
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:13 PM
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bottom Feeders

                                                                                   I honestly am now thinking that when our plecostamus gets too big for the tank, we won't need to get any other algae eater. Our tank doesn't sit in direct sunlight, so the algae growth isn't really bad. The water starts turning green about once a week, which is when we do our partial water changes anyway. I guess it depends on whether your tank sits in sunlight and whether you have live plants in it. I'm guessing that with live plants in the tank the algae growth is more pronounced.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                   
                                                                                   
                                                                                   
                                                                                   

                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 882 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                  Algae should be less evident with plants, since ideally, plants use nutrients that algae need.
                                                                                  Joe Pascavage3
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 883 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/19/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                  i think because plecos lie on the bottom most of the time, people get
                                                                                  that confused.
                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                  On Feb 19, 2004, at 10:59 PM, Dan & Theresa wrote:

                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  > There's a difference too between algae eaters and bottom feeders.
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  > Theresa
                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  > From: Erin Vankouwenberg
                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 3:13 PM
                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bottom Feeders
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >  I honestly am now thinking that when our plecostamus gets too big for
                                                                                  > the tank, we won't need to get any other algae eater. Our tank
                                                                                  > doesn't sit in direct sunlight, so the algae growth isn't really bad.
                                                                                  > The water starts turning green about once a week, which is when we do
                                                                                  > our partial water changes anyway. I guess it depends on whether your
                                                                                  > tank sits in sunlight and whether you have live plants in it. I'm
                                                                                  > guessing that with live plants in the tank the algae growth is more
                                                                                  > pronounced.
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  > Erin
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                  > Service.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >


                                                                                  http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                  don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 884 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: new tank

                                                                                  Yepp Tony, no need to mix peat moss, just sprinkle the peatmoss on the 1” layer of gravel and top it up with another 1.5-2” layer of gravel. Peatmoss should start its organic decay within a few hours of submerged in water. It may bring down your water’s PH so be aware of it, but in a 55 gallon, a couple of handful of peatmos may not really have much effect. Depends on your water’s carbonate hardness but is not really an issue. Plants will be having ready organic matter inside the gravel to help them kickstart. To improve it further, you can also use flourish root tabs to help the plants take a fast and a good hold in the gravel. It should be safe enough for fish within 4 weeks.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Add a little fishfood to the tank once every week to help the fishless cycle. This food will decay away and help feed the beneficial bacteria. You can keep a check of ammonia and nitrites. As soon as you see that nitrites have started to come down, introduce a few fish to the tank.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                   

                                                                                   


                                                                                  From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 19 February 2004 23:44
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new tank

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Nim...

                                                                                  Thanks for this advice. I'm about ready to do this and wanted to double check that I understand your instructions.

                                                                                  As it turns out money is a factor and it just so happens that we have a bunch of peatmoss available. So instead of going to the LFS and spending another $20 on his gravel mixture, I was hoping I could just mix in some peatmoss.

                                                                                  So do I have this right?

                                                                                  If I lay down about an inch of the gravel I have, and then mix in a handful of peatmoss and then cover it with another 2 inches of gravel I'll have a set up suitable for live plants?

                                                                                  Have I got this right?

                                                                                  Tony

                                                                                  At 05:15 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:

                                                                                  The gravel mixture is good enough, but as with other gravel based fertilizers, will need time to mature and collect organic matter to be available for the plants. A handful of peatmoss above 1 of gravel, topped with 2 of gravel in a 55 gallon would be great and better then the gravel mix. If you are looking for a tank dedicated to plants, the scenario will be different and you need more then just gravel. I believe in using natural stuff rather then chemically created gravel additives. If its Laterite, it will need time to mature that can be as long as 6 months.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  But yes, you can start with plants. They may suffer initially but will take the grip finally.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Nim
                                                                                   
                                                                                   


                                                                                  From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 18 February 2004 21:53
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new tank
                                                                                   
                                                                                  The LFS gave me some suggestions on a gravel mixture that includes some nutrients for the plants. I told him what I was looking to do and that was his suggestion... does that sound right?

                                                                                  T



                                                                                  At 04:50 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:

                                                                                  i wouldn't add any plants to a perfectly clean and new tank as there's nothing for them to feed on, they'll do better if the water is set up a bit. there are a ton of places to find plants, it depends on exactly what you want, but aside from LFS' i've had some good luck on ebay. enter "live plants" there and a ton will come up...
                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                  On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 04:38PM, Tony Bittick <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                  >
                                                                                  ><<Original Attached>>


                                                                                   
                                                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

                                                                                  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                       FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                                                       http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                   
                                                                                  I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                                  and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                                  patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                                  before adding my first fish...
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                  I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                                  try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.


                                                                                  I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                                  online somebody would be kind enough to suggest




                                                                                  Tony




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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 885 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                  Awesome. Thanks for the advice...

                                                                                  Just to make sure...

                                                                                  Would adding a few hardy fish to the tank, say a couple of tiger barbs, be a
                                                                                  mistake regarding cycling?

                                                                                  Wouled the levels be too high?

                                                                                  Truth is between my own impatience and that of the six-year-old girl I have
                                                                                  helping me with this project I'm not sure I can wait four weeks <grin>!

                                                                                  Tony



                                                                                  Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                  > Yepp Tony, no need to mix peat moss, just sprinkle the peatmoss on the 1"
                                                                                  > layer of gravel and top it up with another 1.5-2" layer of gravel. Peatmoss
                                                                                  > should start its organic decay within a few hours of submerged in water. It
                                                                                  > may bring down your water's PH so be aware of it, but in a 55 gallon, a
                                                                                  > couple of handful of peatmos may not really have much effect. Depends on
                                                                                  > your water's carbonate hardness but is not really an issue. Plants will be
                                                                                  > having ready organic matter inside the gravel to help them kickstart. To
                                                                                  > improve it further, you can also use flourish root tabs to help the plants
                                                                                  > take a fast and a good hold in the gravel. It should be safe enough for fish
                                                                                  > within 4 weeks.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Add a little fishfood to the tank once every week to help the fishless
                                                                                  > cycle. This food will decay away and help feed the beneficial bacteria. You
                                                                                  > can keep a check of ammonia and nitrites. As soon as you see that nitrites
                                                                                  > have started to come down, introduce a few fish to the tank.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > _____
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  > Sent: 19 February 2004 23:44
                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new tank
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Nim...
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Thanks for this advice. I'm about ready to do this and wanted to double
                                                                                  > check that I understand your instructions.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > As it turns out money is a factor and it just so happens that we have a
                                                                                  > bunch of peatmoss available. So instead of going to the LFS and spending
                                                                                  > another $20 on his gravel mixture, I was hoping I could just mix in some
                                                                                  > peatmoss.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > So do I have this right?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > If I lay down about an inch of the gravel I have, and then mix in a handful
                                                                                  > of peatmoss and then cover it with another 2 inches of gravel I'll have a
                                                                                  > set up suitable for live plants?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Have I got this right?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Tony
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > At 05:15 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > The gravel mixture is good enough, but as with other gravel based
                                                                                  > fertilizers, will need time to mature and collect organic matter to be
                                                                                  > available for the plants. A handful of peatmoss above 1 of gravel, topped
                                                                                  > with 2 of gravel in a 55 gallon would be great and better then the gravel
                                                                                  > mix. If you are looking for a tank dedicated to plants, the scenario will be
                                                                                  > different and you need more then just gravel. I believe in using natural
                                                                                  > stuff rather then chemically created gravel additives. If its Laterite, it
                                                                                  > will need time to mature that can be as long as 6 months.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > But yes, you can start with plants. They may suffer initially but will take
                                                                                  > the grip finally.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > _____
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  > Sent: 18 February 2004 21:53
                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new tank
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > The LFS gave me some suggestions on a gravel mixture that includes some
                                                                                  > nutrients for the plants. I told him what I was looking to do and that was
                                                                                  > his suggestion... does that sound right?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > T
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > At 04:50 PM 2/18/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > i wouldn't add any plants to a perfectly clean and new tank as there's
                                                                                  > nothing for them to feed on, they'll do better if the water is set up a bit.
                                                                                  > there are a ton of places to find plants, it depends on exactly what you
                                                                                  > want, but aside from LFS' i've had some good luck on ebay. enter "live
                                                                                  > plants" there and a ton will come up...
                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                  > On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 04:38PM, Tony Bittick
                                                                                  > <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >>
                                                                                  >><<Original Attached>>
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I'm going to be filling my 55 gallon here in the next couple of days or so
                                                                                  > and would like to start out with plants before fish. In fact if I can be
                                                                                  > patient, I'd like to give my plants a week or two of life in the tank
                                                                                  > before adding my first fish...
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I'd like feedback on this process and suggestions of plants that I might
                                                                                  > try that are hardy and will survive with relatively low light.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I'd also be interested in new tank setup advice or if there's some resource
                                                                                  > online somebody would be kind enough to suggest
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Tony
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                  > ump/N3349.yahoo1/B1282054.22;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=300x250;code=18634;dcopt=r
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                                                                                  > ump/N3349.yahoo1/B1282054.22;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=300x250;code=18634;dcopt=r
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                                                                                  > _____
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                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
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                                                                                  > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                  > *
                                                                                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  > * FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 886 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: salt
                                                                                  I read on a Web site last night something about adding salt to freshwater
                                                                                  tanks. It said not to be afraid to add salt to freshwater or to keep
                                                                                  saltwater tanks at the higher end of salinity.

                                                                                  It mentioned how the sald would fight against some types of disease. Made
                                                                                  good sense to me.

                                                                                  What blew me away was the quantity. It suggested 1-2 tablespoons per
                                                                                  gallon... could that be right? I mean for my new 55 gallon tank that
                                                                                  suggests I should add up to 110 tablespoons of salt. Now THAT doesn't make
                                                                                  sense.

                                                                                  Tony
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 887 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: plant example
                                                                                  The top image on this page is what I'd love to have the floor of my aquarium
                                                                                  ultimately looking like.

                                                                                  I'm also very much into the idea of plants growing on rocks and such.

                                                                                  http://tinyurl.com/ypck2


                                                                                  Tony
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 888 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: plant example

                                                                                  Tony,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Everyone would like to have an aquarium like that, unfortunately it is not the easiest to setup and maintain. What you see is a carpet of Japanese Riccia Fluitans that is a floating plant and has been tied down to rocks or plastic mesh using nylon strings or a hairnet. You obviously cannot have fish that will dig into it. Besides this, it needs a lot of light. Ideally greater then 4W per gallon and a lot of CO2. Such high light means you will have to combat algae and nutrient control at an exceptional level, and lots of CO2 mean you cannot stock your tank more than 20% of the normal stocking density. For a carpet of Riccia, a rich substrate is not a criteria, but for other plants with such light and CO2, you will need a rich substrate or atleast Fluorite. Also keep in mind that the substrate will need time to mature, so in the long run you cannot have a high light setup.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  As far as Riccia grows, it can grow like crazy when floating but can be a pain when submerged. You will have to do very regular pruning as new shoots (thallus) will always grow upwards blocking the light to the lower part that will in short time rot away and release riccia from the grip of the net/thread. Myself having 7 aquariums and having all the plants and capabilities to try and make 1 of my tank look like that, I am still not ready as it needs a lot of weekly work. You cannot go wrong in Nutrient levels as if any disbalance is created, you will get algae rather then plants.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I am yet to try the Monosolenium tenerum from Tropica, have managed to get my hands on a small clump of it and will see how it behaves, but it surely will not look even close to Riccia Fluitans as its structure is much larger.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                   


                                                                                  From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 20 February 2004 14:48
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] plant example

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The top image on this page is what I'd love to have the floor of my aquarium
                                                                                  ultimately looking like.

                                                                                  I'm also very much into the idea of plants growing on rocks and such.

                                                                                  http://tinyurl.com/ypck2


                                                                                  Tony


                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 889 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: plant example
                                                                                  All right then... good to know. <smile> Time to set the goals a little
                                                                                  lower.

                                                                                  All kidding aside, that's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for and
                                                                                  kind of expecting.

                                                                                  Thank you.



                                                                                  Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                  > Tony,
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Everyone would like to have an aquarium like that, unfortunately it is not
                                                                                  > the easiest to setup and maintain. What you see is a carpet of Japanese
                                                                                  > Riccia Fluitans that is a floating plant and has been tied down to rocks or
                                                                                  > plastic mesh using nylon strings or a hairnet. You obviously cannot have
                                                                                  > fish that will dig into it. Besides this, it needs a lot of light. Ideally
                                                                                  > greater then 4W per gallon and a lot of CO2. Such high light means you will
                                                                                  > have to combat algae and nutrient control at an exceptional level, and lots
                                                                                  > of CO2 mean you cannot stock your tank more than 20% of the normal stocking
                                                                                  > density. For a carpet of Riccia, a rich substrate is not a criteria, but for
                                                                                  > other plants with such light and CO2, you will need a rich substrate or
                                                                                  > atleast Fluorite. Also keep in mind that the substrate will need time to
                                                                                  > mature, so in the long run you cannot have a high light setup.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > As far as Riccia grows, it can grow like crazy when floating but can be a
                                                                                  > pain when submerged. You will have to do very regular pruning as new shoots
                                                                                  > (thallus) will always grow upwards blocking the light to the lower part that
                                                                                  > will in short time rot away and release riccia from the grip of the
                                                                                  > net/thread. Myself having 7 aquariums and having all the plants and
                                                                                  > capabilities to try and make 1 of my tank look like that, I am still not
                                                                                  > ready as it needs a lot of weekly work. You cannot go wrong in Nutrient
                                                                                  > levels as if any disbalance is created, you will get algae rather then
                                                                                  > plants.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I am yet to try the Monosolenium tenerum from Tropica, have managed to get
                                                                                  > my hands on a small clump of it and will see how it behaves, but it surely
                                                                                  > will not look even close to Riccia Fluitans as its structure is much larger.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > _____
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  > Sent: 20 February 2004 14:48
                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] plant example
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > The top image on this page is what I'd love to have the floor of my aquarium
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > ultimately looking like.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > I'm also very much into the idea of plants growing on rocks and such.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > http://tinyurl.com/ypck2
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Tony
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > _____
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  > <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=U
                                                                                  > nsubscribe>
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                  > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 890 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: plant example - Correction

                                                                                  I Slight correction in this statement: In the long run, you will have to start with a low light setup, get the substrate to mature and then switch over to a High light setup.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Sorry guys for this mixup. Was thinking something else.

                                                                                  Also Tony, have you seen the book from Takashi Amano “Nature world aquarium I, II & III volumes”. I wish I had the time and skill to make my tanks look even distant closer to what has been shown in that book. Personally. The Book should be banned as it makes the general hobbyist feel so “Low”

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                   

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Also keep in mind that the substrate will need time to
                                                                                  > mature, so in the long run you cannot have a high light setup.

                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 891 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                  it's TEASPOONS per gallon, not tablespoons!
                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                  On Feb 20, 2004, at 9:29 AM, tbittick wrote:

                                                                                  > I read on a Web site last night something about adding salt to
                                                                                  > freshwater
                                                                                  > tanks. It said not to be afraid to add salt to freshwater or to keep
                                                                                  > saltwater tanks at the higher end of salinity.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > It mentioned how the sald would fight against some types of disease.
                                                                                  > Made
                                                                                  > good sense to me.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > What blew me away was the quantity. It suggested 1-2 tablespoons per
                                                                                  > gallon... could that be right? I mean for my new 55 gallon tank that
                                                                                  > suggests I should add up to 110 tablespoons of salt. Now THAT doesn't
                                                                                  > make
                                                                                  > sense.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Tony
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                  > Service.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                  web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 892 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                  That certainly makes more sense, but I'd swear it read tablespoons!!

                                                                                  T

                                                                                  amalthea23 writes:

                                                                                  > it's TEASPOONS per gallon, not tablespoons!
                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                  > On Feb 20, 2004, at 9:29 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >> I read on a Web site last night something about adding salt to
                                                                                  >> freshwater
                                                                                  >> tanks. It said not to be afraid to add salt to freshwater or to keep
                                                                                  >> saltwater tanks at the higher end of salinity.
                                                                                  >>
                                                                                  >> It mentioned how the sald would fight against some types of disease.
                                                                                  >> Made
                                                                                  >> good sense to me.
                                                                                  >>
                                                                                  >> What blew me away was the quantity. It suggested 1-2 tablespoons per
                                                                                  >> gallon... could that be right? I mean for my new 55 gallon tank that
                                                                                  >> suggests I should add up to 110 tablespoons of salt. Now THAT doesn't
                                                                                  >> make
                                                                                  >> sense.
                                                                                  >>
                                                                                  >> Tony
                                                                                  >>
                                                                                  >>
                                                                                  >>
                                                                                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >>
                                                                                  >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                  >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                  >>
                                                                                  >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  >>
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                                                                                  >> Service.
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                                                                                  >>
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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 893 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: salt

                                                                                  Tony, 1-2 table spoon of salt is generally used for Short period salt baths. If you treat your entire tank with such high quantity of salt, it would destroy most of the plants and may effect some fish, especially the scale less fish like corydoras and loaches. Even a short term saltbath is not recommended for these fish but they can easily tolerate a salinity of 1 teaspoon per gallon which is the standard long term treatment to fight disease like ick and fungus.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  A 1-2 table spoon per gallon can be however used with many fish long term like most livebearers and barbs and even African or central American cichlids. Not with most catfish, south American fish (dwarf cichlids, angels, discus, tetras etc.)

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                   

                                                                                   


                                                                                  From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 20 February 2004 14:29
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] salt

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I read on a Web site last night something about adding salt to freshwater
                                                                                  tanks. It said not to be afraid to add salt to freshwater or to keep
                                                                                  saltwater tanks at the higher end of salinity.

                                                                                  It mentioned how the sald would fight against some types of disease. Made
                                                                                  good sense to me.

                                                                                  What blew me away was the quantity. It suggested 1-2 tablespoons per
                                                                                  gallon... could that be right? I mean for my new 55 gallon tank that
                                                                                  suggests I should add up to 110 tablespoons of salt. Now THAT doesn't make
                                                                                  sense.

                                                                                  Tony


                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 894 From: tbittick Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: what about backgrounds?
                                                                                  I'm curious to learn what some of you are doing for aquarium backgrounds?
                                                                                  The local LFS has all kinds of matting... I've heard or read of painted
                                                                                  backgrounds. I'm wondering how many of you us them and or how many have
                                                                                  unique solutions to this issue.

                                                                                  Tony
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 895 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?

                                                                                  Tony,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  In one I have a thicket of Vallisaneria. It has formed a nice blend in the background. In another tank I have placed a well designed Rug behind the tank. 3rd one has a mirror (actually a plastic sheet with reflective film on it so it’s a dull mirror but looks very good except that I cannot photograph this tank. 1 has a simple planted background sheet available at any fish store and the remaining 4 have clear backs.. of all these, the vallisaneria and the clear backs look the best, then comes the mirror and the rug.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  There are other options, you can take a thin Acrylic sheet from a DIY stire (2mm thick), spread aquarium grade silicone on it, and stick any type of aquarium gravel or sand you want on it. Once you have put the sand/gravel on the wet silicone, use a polybag like a glove and press all the grains hard so they are properly embedded in the silicone. For the visible silicone, you can either sprinkle some sand on it or once it is dry, cut it off with a blade. It will give a good dynamic background.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  If you have further patience with it, you can tie xmas moss or java moss to this background and they will soon take grip and within time, spread over. This would look awesome. You can use this setup as an aquarium substrate as well, but these mosses tend to accumulate a lot of dirt and fish poo in them. So a small load of smaller fish is recommended.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                   


                                                                                  From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 20 February 2004 16:08
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] what about backgrounds?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I'm curious to learn what some of you are doing for aquarium backgrounds?
                                                                                  The local LFS has all kinds of matting... I've heard or read of painted
                                                                                  backgrounds. I'm wondering how many of you us them and or how many have
                                                                                  unique solutions to this issue.

                                                                                  Tony


                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 896 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Biozyme
                                                                                  Has any one ever used Biozyme and does it work.


                                                                                  Eric
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 897 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Biospira
                                                                                  i have been reading alot about biospira. every one says its great,
                                                                                  but i can't find it. i checked petco, dr fosters, big als and
                                                                                  petsmart. does any one know where to get this.




                                                                                  Eric
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 898 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: strangest readings on tanks need advice or thoughts
                                                                                  Okay frist I have a hex 5 small tank, right now I have one mystery
                                                                                  snail and little frog. its always been very high in it reading for
                                                                                  ammonia so its NOT strange for me to have the high reading which is
                                                                                  at 4.0 ppm. what IS strange is that the nitrite is at 0 . its always
                                                                                  been if the ammonia is reading high I have some kind of reading like
                                                                                  at least .25 or higher on the nitrites. So my plan is to do about a
                                                                                  50% water change on it. age on tank 7mos, history of fish I had 4
                                                                                  fish average of about 2.5 inch in size and then the frog and the
                                                                                  snail ( yes I know that was way to many fish in that little tank)
                                                                                  Any thoughts? no water change has taken place seens the fish were
                                                                                  moved out

                                                                                  okay now on to the larger tank 39 gallons. reading is nitrites
                                                                                  at .25ppm and 0 on the ammonia. Same thing, I'm confused. I would at
                                                                                  least thought if the nitrites were up I would have some kind of
                                                                                  ammonia reading. Maybe I just don't understand how it all works. age
                                                                                  of this tank 4mos, history of tank went from appox 44 inches of fish
                                                                                  down to appox 22 inches of fish about a week ago. no water changeing
                                                                                  or cleaning ( just a scrubbing of the sides for algae ) just adding
                                                                                  half gallon water about a week ago.

                                                                                  I sold my larger fish and moved the smaller fish, that were in the
                                                                                  small tank into the larger tank about a week ago. I'm I just been
                                                                                  strange myself or are these readings strange? I guess what I'm saying
                                                                                  is I have never seen readings being at 0 and the other reading high,
                                                                                  they either been right on or BOTH >( nitrite and ammonia ) reading at
                                                                                  least somthing. Is this strange to anyone else? any thoughs or I 'm
                                                                                  just being confused right now? thanks in advance :) Sherrie

                                                                                  P.S. When someone says do a water change to they mean just that or
                                                                                  vaccum the gravel also? (when I say water change I mean just
                                                                                  that "water change, take out water replace water no vaccuming the
                                                                                  gravel)
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 899 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
                                                                                  I have a bubble wall that runs the length of the tank on my 39, be on
                                                                                  that is the white wall. love the look, especially at night when
                                                                                  lights are on, the bubbles catches the light and they look like
                                                                                  little sparkles of bubbles. (like in a champagne glass "fizzy") they
                                                                                  make the bubble wands all lengths and you just add air to them. They
                                                                                  have sucker cups to attch to the back, I push my way low omost
                                                                                  touching the gravel and then its kind of hidden, you can make them a
                                                                                  harder fizz or if you play with the air flow, you can make the bubble
                                                                                  omost to curvey dance up the back. very cool :) Sherrie

                                                                                  > I'm curious to learn what some of you are doing for aquarium
                                                                                  backgrounds?
                                                                                  > The local LFS has all kinds of matting... I've heard or read of
                                                                                  painted
                                                                                  > backgrounds. I'm wondering how many of you us them and or how many
                                                                                  have
                                                                                  > unique solutions to this issue.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Tony
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 900 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                  I'm not sure about tiger barbs but I cycled my 29g with zebra danios and had no problems.
                                                                                   
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Theresa
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: tbittick
                                                                                  Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:23 AM
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new tank

                                                                                  Awesome. Thanks for the advice...

                                                                                  Just to make sure...

                                                                                  Would adding a few hardy fish to the tank, say a couple of tiger barbs, be a
                                                                                  mistake regarding cycling?

                                                                                  Wouled the levels be too high?

                                                                                  Truth is between my own impatience and that of the six-year-old girl I have
                                                                                  helping me with this project I'm not sure I can wait four weeks <grin>!

                                                                                  Tony
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 901 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                  I mentioned Tiger Barbs because A) I thought I remembered them being a hearty fish and B) I was pretty sure that was the fish I used the first time around at the suggestion of the seasoned expert who held my hand the first time around...


                                                                                  At 05:26 PM 2/20/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                  I'm not sure about tiger barbs but I cycled my 29g with zebra danios and had no problems.
                                                                                   
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Theresa
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: tbittick
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:23 AM
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new tank

                                                                                  Awesome. Thanks for the advice...

                                                                                  Just to make sure...

                                                                                  Would adding a few hardy fish to the tank, say a couple of tiger barbs, be a
                                                                                  mistake regarding cycling?

                                                                                  Wouled the levels be too high?

                                                                                  Truth is between my own impatience and that of the six-year-old girl I have
                                                                                  helping me with this project I'm not sure I can wait four weeks <grin>!

                                                                                  Tony



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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 902 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bottom Feeders I didn't like to Cories either, because they weren't colorful.  I bought 3 of them a few weeks ago and then, after 2 of them died, discovered that my nitrites were spiking.  I am complete in love with my little one that is left.  He is a hardy little thing that he hasn't already died like the others.  He's still swimming around and is curious as all get out.  I'd much rather have him than some more fish.

                                                                                  TTYL
                                                                                  Mary

                                                                                  From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                                                                                  Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:52:45 -0000
                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bottom Feeders


                                                                                  Not Really Samantha,

                                                                                  But having bottom feeders help in removing food that¹s rotting away and wasted at the bottom where most fish cannot reach. There are many splendid bottom feeders. Clown Loaches are one of the most stunning of them, Khuli loaches, many loach species, a Lot of Synodontis Catfish, corydoras come in various shades and colours but I agree as some people do not like their face. There are also a lot of scavenging catfish species that remain small and do a good cleanup world. You can try www.planetcatfish.com <http://www.planetcatfish.com/>  to find good specimens of your choice or www.loaches.com <http://www.loaches.com/> for loaches of your choice.

                                                                                  Nim






                                                                                  From: samantha_e67 [mailto:samantha_e67@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 19 February 2004 18:23
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bottom Feeders



                                                                                  Thanks all for the suggestions re my last question.  I now have
                                                                                  another.

                                                                                  Can someone tell me if there is really any point in getting bottom
                                                                                  feeders?  All of the ones that I have seen are just plain ugly, and
                                                                                  the only reason I got them was because so many people said I
                                                                                  just "had" to, and that I wouldn't have to clean the tank so much.  
                                                                                  Is this true?  I am beginning to think I'd need a heck of a lot to
                                                                                  really make a difference.  I would rather get a couple more pretty
                                                                                  fish that I enjoy watching.  I'm not afraid of a little scrubbing,
                                                                                  and I think I would enjoy my fish more.  

                                                                                  Thoughts?

                                                                                  Samantha






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                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 903 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                  Tony,
                                                                                  1-2 tablespoons per FIVE gallons (18.9 Liters) is what is usually recommended. I'm reading this off of my package of aquarium salt. For species that prefer more brackish water (like mollies for example) you'd be closer to the 2 tablespoons ... most freshwater fish would be happier with the 1 tablespoon per five gallons. 
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Also keep in mind that the salt does not evaporate, so when doing water changes you'd only put in enough salt to treat the NEW water.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  AND not everyone agrees on the issue of adding salt to freshwater tanks. I do it, because I keep mollies in my tank and I've found through trial and error that it helps keep them from dying off due to fungus.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                  my messenger ID's ...
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                                                                                  visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Date: 02/20/04 10:00:38
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] salt
                                                                                   
                                                                                  What blew me away was the quantity. It suggested 1-2 tablespoons per
                                                                                  gallon... could that be right? I mean for my new 55 gallon tank that
                                                                                  suggests I should add up to 110 tablespoons of salt. Now THAT doesn't make
                                                                                  sense.
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 904 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
                                                                                   Our tank doesn't have a background ... we just see the wall behind it, and the airline and the cord from the hood and the heater. *grin* Not very pretty, but we haven't found a background that we've liked enough to stick to the back of our tank.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                  my messenger ID's ...
                                                                                  Yahoo! messenger : vampifan22
                                                                                  MSN messenger (no email please!) : witchywmn42@...
                                                                                  AIM : WtchyMm
                                                                                  visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Date: 02/20/04 11:29:45
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] what about backgrounds?
                                                                                   
                                                                                  I'm curious to learn what some of you are doing for aquarium backgrounds?
                                                                                  The local LFS has all kinds of matting... I've heard or read of painted
                                                                                  backgrounds.
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 905 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/20/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
                                                                                  Someone told me that fish like a color, and I think it was green or blue. (...and I respected his sources). Anyway, after having one of those high resolution or so photos of aquatic plants attached to the back of my 75 gallon tank, I replaced it with a bluish-green, clear film. On the wall behind the tank, there's a mylar reflector.
                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 906 From: Lady Tara Minerva Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
                                                                                  For now in my 20 gallon i have a bubble wall and i love it.
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 907 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?

                                                                                  Joe, it was an article in the Practical Fish keeping magazine ( UK ) in which they had done various experiments on fish behavior and background colours. It turns out that a Red or Orange background induced aggression in the fish and Green and Bluish backgrounds made them peacefull. This was most evident on Malawi cichlids. I will try and find a soft copy of the article and post again.

                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                   

                                                                                   


                                                                                  From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 21 February 2004 05:02
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] what about backgrounds?

                                                                                   

                                                                                     Someone told me that fish like a color, and I think it was green or blue. (...and I respected his sources). Anyway, after having one of those high resolution or so photos of aquatic plants attached to the back of my 75 gallon tank, I replaced it with a bluish-green, clear film. On the wall behind the tank, there's a mylar reflector.
                                                                                                       Joe Pascavage


                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 908 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Pirahna in Thames
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 909 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: filter placement
                                                                                  Typically I've seen filters placed in a back corner of the tank but
                                                                                  recently I saw one placed on the side of the tank. I really liked this as I
                                                                                  felt it removed the filter from the main visual of the tank. It's the
                                                                                  reason I went to underground filters years ago.

                                                                                  Are there any reasons or schools of thought as to why NOT to do this?

                                                                                  T
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 910 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter placement
                                                                                  Hi,
                                                                                  I think it's because there generally are'nt tank-covers and light-fixtures available for that configuration. Maybe light-fixtures the width, or half the width of the aquarium relate at well, because they distribute light to the width. Also it seems more relavant to induce water-flow across the width, and not into little cycles of circulation dependant on the size of the filter/filters.
                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 911 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter placement
                                                                                  Joe, I believe you are right on the money. I started to realize this very
                                                                                  thing shortly after I e-mailed...

                                                                                  At 11:47 AM 2/21/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                  > Hi,
                                                                                  > I think it's because there generally are'nt tank-covers and
                                                                                  > light-fixtures available for that configuration. Maybe light-fixtures the
                                                                                  > width, or half the width of the aquarium relate at well, because they
                                                                                  > distribute light to the width. Also it seems more relavant to induce
                                                                                  > water-flow across the width, and not into little cycles of circulation
                                                                                  > dependant on the size of the filter/filters.
                                                                                  > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 912 From: Melinda Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: aqaurium center brace question
                                                                                  I have a question/concern and don't know who else to ask. I have a
                                                                                  100 gallon glass aquarium. The dimensions are 4' x 2' x 18" high,
                                                                                  and the glass is 1/4" thick. It has a center bracket and to hold the
                                                                                  glass top and I want to remove that bracket. I have made a large
                                                                                  wooden canopy that fits on the outside of the tank. Is removing the
                                                                                  center bracket going to cause a problem with the structure of the
                                                                                  tank? I have a 120 gallon that isn't as wide (12") and it doesn't
                                                                                  have a center bracket, but it is 1/2" thick glass.
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 913 From: Melinda Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: aquarium center bracket
                                                                                  I have a question/concern and don't know who else to ask. I have a
                                                                                  100 gallon glass aquarium. The dimensions are 4' x 2' x 18" high,
                                                                                  and the glass is 1/4" thick. It has a center bracket and to hold the
                                                                                  glass top and I want to remove that bracket. I have made a large
                                                                                  wooden canopy that fits on the outside of the tank. Is removing the
                                                                                  center bracket going to cause a problem with the structure of the
                                                                                  tank? I have a 120 gallon that isn't as wide (12") and it doesn't
                                                                                  have a center bracket, but it is 1/2" thick glass.
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 914 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
                                                                                  I wouldn't remove the bracket without consulting with the manufacturer. I've seen heavy, wooden aquarium-tops/light-fixture assemblys, for different sizes of tanks, but haven't noticed anything related to problems relating therein to bracket-removal. Also, if your tank is 4' left-to-right, and 2' front-to-back, and 18" top-to-bottom, I've never seen one like it. Was it custom made? If not, what's it called. Thought years ago about having a tank made that was wide, deep (front-to-back, and shallow 'cuz I'd become fond of Corys.
                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 915 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: heater placement
                                                                                  Please forgive me as I've always used underground filters before... I'm
                                                                                  using a submersible heater and wondering about placement.

                                                                                  We're talking about at 55 gallon tank. I keep thinking it makes more sense
                                                                                  to place the heater opposite of the filter so that the filter will draw the
                                                                                  warm water across the whole tank.

                                                                                  Any other thoughts on this?

                                                                                  Tony
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 916 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: heater placement
                                                                                  In most tanks, where the heater is placed makes little difference. Heavily
                                                                                  planted and decorated tanks, however, have many places where the heater
                                                                                  would create hot spots. That's probably not so bad. But I like to keep my
                                                                                  heaters as close to the filter intake as possible. This guarantees that it
                                                                                  is in moving water the represents the average temperature in the tank and
                                                                                  also assures that the heat output is spread (by the filter) maximally.

                                                                                  Mike
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:57 AM
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] heater placement


                                                                                  > Please forgive me as I've always used underground filters before... I'm
                                                                                  > using a submersible heater and wondering about placement.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > We're talking about at 55 gallon tank. I keep thinking it makes more sense
                                                                                  > to place the heater opposite of the filter so that the filter will draw
                                                                                  the
                                                                                  > warm water across the whole tank.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Any other thoughts on this?
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Tony
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 917 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: heater placement
                                                                                  H'lo Tony,
                                                                                  Everything I've seen on the subject relates to having the heated-water distributed, so placement near the filter-intake is the place to start. I've used UGF's also, but have used hang-on filters, etc. with them. No matter where you place the heater in relation to intake and outflow, you're not going to obtain an immediate absolute, even heat-distribution as far as I can figure. Can't say I've had any fish-health problems because I don't ACTUALLY KNOW how the heat mixes in relation to my filters though. Was just wondering if an infra-red optical-device could help satisfy curiousity as to the actual distribution of heat over time.
                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 918 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: heater placement
                                                                                  Thanks Joe, and Thanks Mike...

                                                                                  That fits in line pretty much with setups I've seen...




                                                                                  At 01:18 PM 2/21/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                  > H'lo Tony,
                                                                                  > Everything I've seen on the subject relates to having the
                                                                                  > heated-water distributed, so placement near the filter-intake is the
                                                                                  > place to start. I've used UGF's also, but have used hang-on filters, etc.
                                                                                  > with them. No matter where you place the heater in relation to intake and
                                                                                  > outflow, you're not going to obtain an immediate absolute, even
                                                                                  > heat-distribution as far as I can figure. Can't say I've had any
                                                                                  > fish-health problems because I don't ACTUALLY KNOW how the heat mixes in
                                                                                  > relation to my filters though. Was just wondering if an infra-red
                                                                                  > optical-device could help satisfy curiousity as to the actual
                                                                                  > distribution of heat over time.
                                                                                  > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 919 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket

                                                                                  I would not recommend removing the Braces at all. The braces prevent Bowing of the front and rear glass. Moreover if the hood will rest on the vertical glass, it will further increase the pressure to bow the tank. I agree that the bracing does not really add on to the look, but for a 8mm glass on a tank that size, it would be really testing the limits. I have a 40” long, 30” wide and 18” high tank of 12mm and with bracing just 1” below the top and it perfectly concealed by the top cover.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                   

                                                                                   


                                                                                  From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 21 February 2004 17:26
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] aquarium center bracket

                                                                                   

                                                                                      I wouldn't remove the bracket without consulting with  the manufacturer. I've seen heavy, wooden aquarium-tops/light-fixture assemblys, for different sizes of tanks, but haven't noticed anything related to problems relating therein to bracket-removal. Also, if your tank is 4' left-to-right, and 2' front-to-back, and 18" top-to-bottom, I've never seen one like it. Was it custom made? If not, what's it called. Thought years ago about having a tank made that was wide, deep (front-to-back, and shallow 'cuz I'd become fond of Corys.
                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage


                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 920 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
                                                                                  Hello,
                                                                                  I've never seen tanks the size you describe. Are they made to order?
                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 921 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
                                                                                  That's why I would'nt recommend removal. I thought a call or letter to the right person in manufacture would advise against removal, and help remove the possible sublimated perception of taint because we're not engineers, or the like.
                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 922 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket

                                                                                  Mine is a made to order tank. But Seabray makes marine tanks that are wider then higher. So a 4ft long, 2ft wide and 18” high could be a standard tank size for Seabray (UK).

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                   

                                                                                   


                                                                                  From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 21 February 2004 19:21
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] aquarium center bracket

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Hello,
                                                                                      I've never seen tanks the size you describe. Are they made to order?
                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage


                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 923 From: Melinda Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
                                                                                  It is a special order tank. I have aquatic turtles, and the wider
                                                                                  the tank is the better. The center bracket is in the way of a ramp
                                                                                  that will allow my turtles to crawl up into their basking area.
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 924 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
                                                                                     I suppose you've considered  altering the hood, and/or embellishing/including it as part of the design?
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  From: Melinda
                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 3:39 PM
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: aquarium center bracket

                                                                                  It is a special order tank. I have aquatic turtles, and the wider
                                                                                  the tank is the better. The center bracket is in the way of a ramp
                                                                                  that will allow my turtles to crawl up into their basking area.

                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 925 From: Tony Bittick Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: we're walking...
                                                                                  First and foremost I wanted to thank all the folks who have so graciously
                                                                                  answered my questions over the last several days. You've been a tremendous
                                                                                  help.

                                                                                  Tonight we set up the 55 gallon, put in the gravel/peatmoss, landscaping,
                                                                                  heater filter and WATER.

                                                                                  Have to tell you I was/am very excited. My wife even came immediately
                                                                                  upstairs to search my fish book to determine which fish SHE wants to add to
                                                                                  the tank.

                                                                                  So here's my question. How soon before I can add my first plants and I'd
                                                                                  love to have some "first plant" suggestions.

                                                                                  I know the temp has to come up, but wondered how long the tank might need
                                                                                  to cycle?

                                                                                  Tony
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 926 From: Tim Walker Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: we're walking...
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > So here's my question. How soon before I can add my first plants and
                                                                                  > I'd
                                                                                  > love to have some "first plant" suggestions.
                                                                                  >

                                                                                  As soon as the temperature is up and the chlorine is gone (either by
                                                                                  waiting a few days or adding various removers etc).
                                                                                  I would add fast growing plants for now, stem plants, valisneria, etc
                                                                                  depending on your lighting arrangements. You want the fast growers in
                                                                                  there to outcompete any algae and to start sucking the nitrates as soon
                                                                                  as possible.

                                                                                  > I know the temp has to come up, but wondered how long the tank might
                                                                                  > need
                                                                                  > to cycle?
                                                                                  >

                                                                                  The tank isn't cycled until you have sufficient cultures of ammonia and
                                                                                  nitrite eating bacterias.
                                                                                  So generally with a new tank you have a small source of ammonia, e.g. 1
                                                                                  or 2 hardy fish and watch the ammonia. It will spike up and then the
                                                                                  ammonia eating bacteria will kick in and the ammonia will drop off at
                                                                                  which point you will see a nitrite spike happen until the nitrite
                                                                                  eating bacteria kick in and the you'll see nitrates start to rise and
                                                                                  ammonia at zero and nitrites at almost zero if not zero. At this point
                                                                                  the tank is cycled. This can take anywhere between 1 and 6 weeks.
                                                                                  Nitrates are removed through plants and through water changes.

                                                                                  Don't go overboard at this point though, with every few fish you add
                                                                                  you'll trigger a mini ammonia nitrite cycle again so adding a few fish
                                                                                  often over a long period of time is the way to do it rather than all
                                                                                  the fish at once.

                                                                                  I'd also be adding in some slower growing plants, adding CO2 etc if you
                                                                                  were going for a planted tank look at the point where you start getting
                                                                                  nitrates visible in the tank.

                                                                                  Cheers,
                                                                                  Tim



                                                                                  > Tony
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  >  
                                                                                  > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                  > Service.
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  >
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 927 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: we're walking...
                                                                                  Hi,
                                                                                  .....and I have'nt had much luck with aquarium plants, but have had success with Hygrophilia Polysperma for years. It helps to understand the history of the plant in the aquarium. Mine took over a year to begin growing so prolifically I had to trom them at water surface every week. After about two years, they begin to slow-down, according to what I've read and my experience. But I have'nt gone the peat-moss route because at that time I had'nt the resources to know about it.had success with Java-Fern also. Java-Moss worked for me, but in a situation other than you described as your tank-set-up.
                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 928 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: Bottom Feeders
                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bottom Feeders
                                                                                  I thought the bottom feeders until I discovered cories and became a cory addict too lol I started with peppered cories, who are now in my 29g with leopard cories. I also have panda cories.
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Loaches are cool too...I have 2 queens who are very entertaining and with their stripes look like they're wearing pajamas.
                                                                                   
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Theresa
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 6:22 PM
                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bottom Feeders

                                                                                  I didn't like to Cories either, because they weren't colorful.  I bought 3 of them a few weeks ago and then, after 2 of them died, discovered that my nitrites were spiking.  I am complete in love with my little one that is left.  He is a hardy little thing that he hasn't already died like the others.  He's still swimming around and is curious as all get out.  I'd much rather have him than some more fish.

                                                                                  TTYL
                                                                                  Mary
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 929 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/21/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: strangest readings on tanks need advice or thoughts
                                                                                  To me they are 2 separate things. I do frequent water changes because I tend to overstock my tanks, but only vacuum once a week.
                                                                                   
                                                                                   
                                                                                  Theresa
                                                                                   
                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                  Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 5:00 PM
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] strangest readings on tanks need advice or thoughts


                                                                                  P.S. When someone says do a water change to they mean just that or
                                                                                  vaccum the gravel also? (when I say water change I mean just
                                                                                  that "water change, take out water replace water no vaccuming the
                                                                                  gravel)
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 930 From: Chris Date: 2/22/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Update and Question.
                                                                                  Hi all!

                                                                                  Just thought that I'd let you all know that my tank is going really
                                                                                  well- its been st up since the 18th of Jan and I have only had one
                                                                                  fish loss (which was accidental). I now have 3 angelfish- which are
                                                                                  looking fantastic -2 pearl gouramis, 2 red gouramis, 2 Schwartz's
                                                                                  Cories, a Black ghost knife fish and 2 chinese algea eaters. They are
                                                                                  all looking fantastic and healthy!

                                                                                  I have a plant question though. In my outside fish pond, I have a
                                                                                  fantastic bottom cover plant and I want to put a cutting in my tank.
                                                                                  Obvioulsy I would have to make sure that the cutting was totally
                                                                                  clean and safe to put in the tank. What measures do I have to take to
                                                                                  ensure that the cutting would be safe? Please let me know ASAP. Hope
                                                                                  everyone is well!

                                                                                  Thanks

                                                                                  Chris :D
                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 931 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/22/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: we're walking...

                                                                                  Tony, You can add the plants as soon as the temperature is up. Usually 24 -48 hrs. did you add any water conditioner to the tank? This is important to get rid of chlorines and chloramines and heavy metals in tap water.

                                                                                  To start with, go for past growers like Hygrophylla, cabomba, limnophylla, elodea etc. you can also start with heavy root feeders like Valisaneria and Amazon swords. Most people have little success with these in the initial tank setup as the substrate does not have enough for them, but peatmoss should make the difference. To be on a safe side, also add a Fluorish tab near the roots of these. Don’t forget to add plant fertilizer to it.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  To add fish, you need to let the tank cycle. Though for a 55 gallon keeping the temperature at 24 C, you can add a couple of goldfish within a week to help it cycle with plants. If you have lot of plants then the plants also compete for ammonia with the bacteria and with no fish load it may happen so that the bacteria may starve. So just in case this situation may arrive, add a couple of goldfish to the tank within a week. If you don’t like the idea of it then you can add 1ml of Terristial Miracle-gro or other terristial plant feeds twice a week for 2 weeks. Ideal contents of Miracle-gro are:

                                                                                  • 5.8% Ammoniacal Nitrogen

                                                                                  • 9.2% Urea Nitrogen

                                                                                  • 30% Available Phosphate

                                                                                  • 15% Soluble Potash

                                                                                  • 0.02% Boron

                                                                                  • 0.07% Copper

                                                                                  • 0.15% Iron

                                                                                  • 0.05% Manganese

                                                                                  • 0.005% Molybdenum

                                                                                  • 0.06% Zinc

                                                                                  Plants will consume all of this and help in cycle as it has a safe amount of ammonical nitrogen. But stop using it after 2 weeks as the tank will have started to cycle. Wait another 2 weeks and perform 30% water changes on both these weeks before adding the fish. You should in this case ad the fish only when nitrite has started to come down from the peak.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  The Miracle gro thing is an experiment that I had done sometime ago and it had my plants grow like mad in sunlight without algae. But if you want to stick to a safe side, add a couple of goldfish after a week and this will safely cycle the tank with plants as well.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                   


                                                                                  From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                  Sent: 22 February 2004 01:34
                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] we're walking...

                                                                                   

                                                                                  First and foremost I wanted to thank all the folks who have so graciously
                                                                                  answered my questions over the last several days. You've been a tremendous
                                                                                  help.

                                                                                  Tonight we set up the 55 gallon, put in the gravel/peatmoss, landscaping,
                                                                                  heater filter and WATER.

                                                                                  Have to tell you I was/am very excited. My wife even came immediately
                                                                                  upstairs to search my fish book to determine which fish SHE wants to add to
                                                                                  the tank.

                                                                                  So here's my question. How soon before I can add my first plants and I'd
                                                                                  love to have some "first plant" suggestions.

                                                                                  I know the temp has to come up, but wondered how long the tank might need
                                                                                  to cycle?

                                                                                  Tony




                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 932 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/22/2004
                                                                                  Subject: Re: strangest readings on tanks need advice or thoughts
                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                    When I do a water change, I vacuum the gravel as well. It gets that debris that gets under the gravel out of there.  
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                    my messenger ID's ...
                                                                                    Yahoo! messenger : vampifan22
                                                                                    MSN messenger (no email please!) : witchywmn42@aol.com
                                                                                    AIM : WtchyMm
                                                                                    visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                     
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 5:00 PM
                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] strangest readings on tanks need advice or thoughts


                                                                                    P.S. When someone says do a water change to they mean just that or
                                                                                    vaccum the gravel also?

                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 933 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/22/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Update and Question.
                                                                                    I am not very familiar with it but have read people
                                                                                    suggesting to bleach it for a while before introducing
                                                                                    into ur Acq.,

                                                                                    This applies for any plants u buy from the lfs to get
                                                                                    rid of snails and or any other unwanted guests..

                                                                                    Hope this helps....SuNnY !

                                                                                    --- Chris <kava_man_spr@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > Hi all!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Just thought that I'd let you all know that my tank
                                                                                    > is going really
                                                                                    > well- its been st up since the 18th of Jan and I
                                                                                    > have only had one
                                                                                    > fish loss (which was accidental). I now have 3
                                                                                    > angelfish- which are
                                                                                    > looking fantastic -2 pearl gouramis, 2 red gouramis,
                                                                                    > 2 Schwartz's
                                                                                    > Cories, a Black ghost knife fish and 2 chinese algea
                                                                                    > eaters. They are
                                                                                    > all looking fantastic and healthy!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I have a plant question though. In my outside fish
                                                                                    > pond, I have a
                                                                                    > fantastic bottom cover plant and I want to put a
                                                                                    > cutting in my tank.
                                                                                    > Obvioulsy I would have to make sure that the cutting
                                                                                    > was totally
                                                                                    > clean and safe to put in the tank. What measures do
                                                                                    > I have to take to
                                                                                    > ensure that the cutting would be safe? Please let me
                                                                                    > know ASAP. Hope
                                                                                    > everyone is well!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Thanks
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Chris :D
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >


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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 934 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/22/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Update and Question.
                                                                                    I believe using bleach to disinfect plants is just about one of the worst things imanigineable, and I shudder with dread at the thought. Those who have suggested it did so with a recipe, and thinking of doing so without one, using straight bleach, is a horror. It may be safe if you know the proportions of bleach to water, and the length of time to leave the plant in the solution. I've dissolved unwanted plant-cuttings (unintentionally when sterilizing plastic deco stuff) and a dead fish or so in 100% household bleach, so I know it's potent.
                                                                                    Besides this club, I've seen reference to disinfecting in bleach-solution on the web, but I have'nt looked far into it. I've used Potassium Permanganate solution a bit, but can't say it has the slightest effect in removing pond-snails and their eggs, or any bug that can be unsightly in numbers or parasitical. One of the best ways theoretically to secure safe plants is to buy from someone who says they're grown in a sterile/safe environment. The fish however, in my experience,seem to carry little thingys,andI've never perfectly identified bugs/worms that have shown up after introducing fish.
                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 935 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/22/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Update and Question.
                                                                                    you're supposed to rinse the plants in a 1:20 solution of bleach (which
                                                                                    is tremendously diluted) and then rinse under plain water for 10
                                                                                    minutes. that is a mild enough mix that neither the plants, nor the
                                                                                    tank they will end up inhabiting will be adversely affected.
                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                    On Feb 22, 2004, at 10:19 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                    >    I believe using bleach to disinfect plants is just about one of the
                                                                                    > worst things imanigineable, and I shudder with dread at the thought.
                                                                                    > Those who have suggested it did so with a recipe, and thinking of
                                                                                    > doing so without one, using straight bleach, is a horror.  It may be
                                                                                    > safe if you know the proportions of bleach to water, and the length of
                                                                                    > time to leave the plant in the solution. I've dissolved unwanted
                                                                                    > plant-cuttings (unintentionally when sterilizing plastic deco stuff)
                                                                                    > and a dead fish or so in 100% household bleach, so I know it's potent.
                                                                                    >    Besides this club, I've seen reference to disinfecting in
                                                                                    > bleach-solution on the web, but I have'nt looked far into it. I've
                                                                                    > used Potassium Permanganate solution  a bit, but can't say it has the
                                                                                    > slightest effect in removing pond-snails and their eggs, or any bug
                                                                                    > that can be unsightly in numbers or parasitical.  One of the best ways
                                                                                    > theoretically to secure safe plants is to buy from someone who says
                                                                                    > they're grown in a sterile/safe environment. The fish however, in my
                                                                                    > experience,seem to carry little thingys,andI've never perfectly
                                                                                    > identified bugs/worms that have shown up after introducing fish.
                                                                                    >                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                    >     
                                                                                    >                     
                                                                                    >  
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                    >  
                                                                                    > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    >  
                                                                                    > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                    > Service.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                    web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 936 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/22/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
                                                                                    I don't have any backgrounds! My 6g is heavily planted and a background isn't necessary. Two of my tanks are in between two rooms so they are set up to be seen from both sides. If I was to get a background I'd choose either the mirror-type or something simple like black.
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: tbittick
                                                                                    Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 11:08 AM
                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] what about backgrounds?

                                                                                    I'm curious to learn what some of you are doing for aquarium backgrounds?
                                                                                    The local LFS has all kinds of matting... I've heard or read of painted
                                                                                    backgrounds. I'm wondering how many of you us them and or how many have
                                                                                    unique solutions to this issue.

                                                                                    Tony
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 937 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 2/22/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: what about backgrounds?
                                                                                    Makes sense...the same is true for people, blue & green are better bedroom color choices since they are more relaxing.
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 4:16 AM
                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] what about backgrounds?

                                                                                    Joe, it was an article in the Practical Fish keeping magazine ( UK ) in which they had done various experiments on fish behavior and background colours. It turns out that a Red or Orange background induced aggression in the fish and Green and Bluish backgrounds made them peacefull. This was most evident on Malawi cichlids. I will try and find a soft copy of the article and post again.

                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 938 From: John Date: 2/23/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: aquarium center bracket
                                                                                    I would suggest leaving it aswell, unkess your new canopy is a permanent fixture on the tank . The reason for this is that the bracket is probably there to stop the longest sides from bowing out with the preasure of the water. It your new canopy is going to do the same job then I should have thought it safe to remove the bracket. just be aware when the tank is full of water!
                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 5:25 PM
                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] aquarium center bracket

                                                                                        I wouldn't remove the bracket without consulting with  the manufacturer. I've seen heavy, wooden aquarium-tops/light-fixture assemblys, for different sizes of tanks, but haven't noticed anything related to problems relating therein to bracket-removal. Also, if your tank is 4' left-to-right, and 2' front-to-back, and 18" top-to-bottom, I've never seen one like it. Was it custom made? If not, what's it called. Thought years ago about having a tank made that was wide, deep (front-to-back, and shallow 'cuz I'd become fond of Corys.
                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage

                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 939 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/23/2004
                                                                                    Subject: stress coat
                                                                                    has any one ever used this stuff. how well does it work and is it
                                                                                    worth it. any help would be great.



                                                                                    Eric
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 940 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/23/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: stress coat

                                                                                    Eric,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Stress Coat is one of  the best Water conditioners I have seen. But frankly speaking, there are many other water conditioners in the market that are cheaper and equally reliable then stresscoat. Tetra Aquasafe turns out to be more economical then Stresscoat, however it does not have aloevera as what stresscoat has, but aloevera was not available to the aquarists until a couple of years ago. Yes stuff like Vitamins and capability to neutralize heavy metals and chloramines would be a more usefull thing.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I need to buy water conditioners in 5litre cans so have to look a lot at economy as well. A 5litre aquasafe can lasts about 4 months, where as a 1 gallon can of Stresscoat lasts about 3 months and cost more then aquasafe. I have had better results by using a combination water conditioners. Poolshield from Waterlife UK cost half that of stresscoat and will last over a year. It also has aloevera but is a little slower in action. So I use other conditioner(Aquasafe, Easylife or Stresscoat) with conjunction with it in little quantities.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Nim


                                                                                    From: red_5sw@... [mailto:red_5sw@...]
                                                                                    Sent: 23 February 2004 17:03
                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] stress coat

                                                                                     

                                                                                    has any one ever used this stuff. how well does it work and is it
                                                                                    worth it. any help would be great.



                                                                                    Eric


                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 941 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/23/2004
                                                                                    Subject: freshwater stingray ? anyone have one or info on one ?
                                                                                    went to my lfs and they told me about a freshwater stingray. Sounds
                                                                                    fun BUT.... everything I have read on net sounds like it not a good
                                                                                    idea. I do know they can sting you, and you must go to the hostpital
                                                                                    right away. But I would like more info thanks sherrie
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 942 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/23/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: stress coat
                                                                                    Nim,
                                                                                    What do you think of Jungle-Labs 'Start-Right'?
                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 943 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/23/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: freshwater stingray ? anyone have one or info on one ?

                                                                                    Sherrie,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I have never kept them probably coz I cannot keep up with another aquarium with the water quality requirements needed by sting rays, but have a couple of friends who have and they claim that once it is settled and starts to recognize you, it will not sting. It will very easily adapt to hand feeding very soon. But yes, if you are handling the fish incorrectly, they can sting just like a dog may bite you in a reaction if you step on its tail.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    They need big tanks and so means a lot more stability and less need to move them around. Once you settle a fish like a sting ray. You will not need to move it in the next 2-3 years atleast. If you do plan to do it more frequently, they are not for you.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                     


                                                                                    From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@...]
                                                                                    Sent: 23 February 2004 20:46
                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] freshwater stingray ? anyone have one or info on one ?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    went to my lfs and they told me about a freshwater stingray. Sounds
                                                                                    fun BUT.... everything I have read on net sounds like it not a good
                                                                                    idea. I do know they can sting you, and you must go to the hostpital
                                                                                    right away. But I would like more info thanks sherrie



                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 944 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/23/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: stress coat

                                                                                    Never came across it Joe. Its probably not available in the UK . But I am an advocate of Easy-Life (www.easylife.nl). Their FFM probably does atleast 50% of what they claim and the Pro-Fito is one of the most effective liquid fertilizer I have come across. Both are however not easily available and I have a distant vendor who can get it for me, so I order in bulk.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                     


                                                                                    From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                    Sent: 23 February 2004 21:27
                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] stress coat

                                                                                     

                                                                                       Nim,
                                                                                       What do you think of Jungle-Labs 'Start-Right'?
                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage



                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 945 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 2/23/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: freshwater stingray ? anyone have one or info on one ?
                                                                                    In a message dated 2/23/2004 3:45:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, KPribble@... writes:

                                                                                    > went to my lfs and they told me about a freshwater stingray. Sounds
                                                                                    > fun BUT.... everything I have read on net sounds like it not a good
                                                                                    > idea. I do know they can sting you, and you must go to the
                                                                                    > hostpital
                                                                                    > right away. But I would like more info thanks sherrie

                                                                                    Check to see if they are legal in your area. I read somewhere that California does not allow them.

                                                                                    Mike
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 946 From: Nazzie Date: 2/24/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Hi everybody!
                                                                                    I'm new here and I just wanted to say hello. I'm not quite new at
                                                                                    taking care of fish, but I woud like to commune with people who
                                                                                    share the same interest in Aquarium habitats as I do. I own several
                                                                                    Goldfish including Orandas, Shubunkin, a Black Moore, Calico
                                                                                    Fantails, and common Goldfish. I also own a few tropicals like a
                                                                                    Pepper pattern Molly, two Lyre Tails, Danios, a male swordtail and
                                                                                    two platies. I do own at least six male Bettas as well.
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 947 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/24/2004
                                                                                    Subject: well...didn;t get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
                                                                                    Well I decided not to get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
                                                                                    Should be okay ? they say a 20 gallon tank is bigger enough.
                                                                                    I have a 40, the only thing I have to worry about is my snail
                                                                                    but thats about it. I named our blue lobster "butter" he is pretty
                                                                                    cool. Wish me luck :) * grin Sherrie
                                                                                    hope sometime I can post pics of it
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 948 From: Nazzie Date: 2/24/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Plecostamus
                                                                                    I recently purchased a Pleco from Wal-Mart. I noticed that it is
                                                                                    missing it's tail as if it either had been rotted away or nipped.
                                                                                    Considering the tank of fish it was in. I'm hazarding a guess that
                                                                                    it was nipped at. It seems to be growing back as I can see a clear
                                                                                    membrane of tailfon tissue starting to develop. I was just wondering
                                                                                    if anyone knew how long it took Plecos to regenerate theit tailfins
                                                                                    because he looks pretty funny with just a little stubble of a tail.
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 949 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/24/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: well...didn;t get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
                                                                                    i have one of those, you should be fine with him, just make sure that
                                                                                    he has a cave to hide in and make sure everyone else can escape from
                                                                                    him as well. he'll eventually shed (mine just did!) and he'll be
                                                                                    particularly defenseless at that time.
                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                    On Feb 25, 2004, at 1:44 AM, freedombell2002 wrote:

                                                                                    > Well I decided not to get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
                                                                                    > Should be okay ? they say a 20 gallon tank is bigger enough.
                                                                                    > I have a 40, the only thing I have to worry about is my snail
                                                                                    > but thats about it. I named our blue lobster "butter" he is pretty
                                                                                    > cool. Wish me luck :) * grin  Sherrie
                                                                                    > hope sometime I can post pics of it
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >


                                                                                    http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                    don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 950 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/24/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: well...didn;t get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
                                                                                    Hi sherrie,

                                                                                    I think blue cheese would have been better *wink*

                                                                                    I think amalthea also has a blue lobster...

                                                                                    Anyways wish you all the best of luck with it...SuNnY
                                                                                    !!

                                                                                    --- freedombell2002 <KPribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > Well I decided not to get the ray, but I did get a
                                                                                    > blue lobster
                                                                                    > Should be okay ? they say a 20 gallon tank is bigger
                                                                                    > enough.
                                                                                    > I have a 40, the only thing I have to worry about is
                                                                                    > my snail
                                                                                    > but thats about it. I named our blue lobster
                                                                                    > "butter" he is pretty
                                                                                    > cool. Wish me luck :) * grin Sherrie
                                                                                    > hope sometime I can post pics of it
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >


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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 951 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/24/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: well...didn;t get the ray, but I did get a blue lobster
                                                                                    yup, i just wrote about him in the last email..
                                                                                    :)
                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                    On Feb 25, 2004, at 2:28 AM, sunil kamath wrote:

                                                                                    > Hi sherrie,
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I think blue cheese would have been better *wink*
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I think amalthea also has a blue lobster...
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Anyways wish you all the best of luck with it...SuNnY
                                                                                    > !!
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > --- freedombell2002 <KPribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                    > > Well I decided not to get the ray, but I did get a
                                                                                    > > blue lobster
                                                                                    > > Should be okay ? they say a 20 gallon tank is bigger
                                                                                    > > enough.
                                                                                    > > I have a 40, the only thing I have to worry about is
                                                                                    > > my snail
                                                                                    > > but thats about it. I named our blue lobster
                                                                                    > > "butter" he is pretty
                                                                                    > > cool. Wish me luck :) * grin  Sherrie
                                                                                    > > hope sometime I can post pics of it
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    > >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > __________________________________
                                                                                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                    > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
                                                                                    > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
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                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                    >  
                                                                                    > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                    > Service.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >


                                                                                    http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                    don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 952 From: Basil Date: 2/25/2004
                                                                                    Subject: New fish in the tank
                                                                                    Hi all I am the new fish in the tank, I have kept fish for over 12
                                                                                    years and after a 3 year lay off and moving to the USA from the UK I
                                                                                    have started again, I got a second hand tank complete with fish which
                                                                                    I set up and is running Ok with no loss of fish through the move, and
                                                                                    I hope to set up another tank in the near future.
                                                                                    Happy Fish Keeping All.
                                                                                    Bas..
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 953 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/25/2004
                                                                                    Subject: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
                                                                                     Okay, yet another crisis for my mollies and platys... I've taken to frequent testing of the water quality after my LAST fiasco. I just did a partial water change on Sunday. Tonight I tested the water, and in BOTH tanks (the main 15 gallon, and the about 1 1/2 gallon "baby tank") have Nitrites testing in "danger".
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I read the labels on all of the water treatments we've got, and NONE of them say anything about treating Nitrites all by itself. I even tested the ammonia levels to see if that was the problem, and the ammonia levels are fine too.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I'm stumped. I've got a couple of questions.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    1) What could cause the Nitrites to get so high, just days after a partial water change?
                                                                                     
                                                                                    2) What can I do to fix it? On hand I've got Jungle Labs "Clear Water" (which we don't usually use, but it's there if we have a problem), ACE, Start Right, pH decreaser (which we don't use often either ... altho our local water is pretty hard, the mollies are fine with it), Ick Clear tabs and Fungus Clear tabs. I've also got a carton of aquarium salt.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Thanks in advance.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                    my messenger ID's ...
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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 954 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/25/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                    It's been a while since I (think) I had that problem, but it may be because different bacteria relate to different aspects of the nitrogen cycle. One for ammonia, another for nitrite, another for nitrate, etc., so your ammonia-level may be normal and the nitrites high. If your tank is relatively new, it's just part of reaching equilibrium . And as far as not having a chemical with specific directions to use to reduce nitrites, I've never heard of one. Using something chemical that eliminates ammonia, does'nt allow your nitrogen-fixing bacteria to change ammonia to nitrite, so if you stop using it, the tank should theoretically behave as if you're beginning a new tank setup. The only cure for nitrite buildup is diluting the water and doing nothing that exacerbates the normal tank equalibriation. (such as overfeeding and overstocking, and using too many chemicals that could kil;l or damage your nitrogen-fixing-bacteria).
                                                                                    If your tank is new, what's happening is normal.
                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 955 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/25/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
                                                                                    i just checked the bottle and amquel + (that's amquel plus) will lower
                                                                                    nitrites for you, but a water change is in order...
                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                    On Feb 25, 2004, at 10:48 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                    >    Hi,
                                                                                    >      It's been a while since I (think) I had that problem, but it may
                                                                                    > be because different bacteria relate to different aspects of the
                                                                                    > nitrogen cycle. One for ammonia, another for nitrite, another for
                                                                                    > nitrate, etc., so your ammonia-level may be normal and the nitrites
                                                                                    > high. If your tank is relatively new, it's just part of reaching
                                                                                    > equilibrium . And as far as not having a chemical with specific
                                                                                    > directions to use to reduce nitrites, I've never heard of one. Using
                                                                                    > something chemical that eliminates ammonia, does'nt allow your
                                                                                    > nitrogen-fixing bacteria to change ammonia to nitrite, so if you stop
                                                                                    > using it, the tank should theoretically behave as if you're beginning
                                                                                    > a new tank setup. The only cure for nitrite buildup is diluting the
                                                                                    > water and doing nothing that exacerbates the normal tank
                                                                                    > equalibriation. (such as overfeeding and overstocking, and using too
                                                                                    > many chemicals that could kil;l or damage your
                                                                                    > nitrogen-fixing-bacteria).
                                                                                    >    If your tank is new, what's happening is normal.
                                                                                    >                   Joe Pascavage
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                    >  
                                                                                    > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    >  
                                                                                    > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                    > Service.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                    web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 956 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 2/25/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Group is ranked in the Top 10!
                                                                                    Hello everybody,

                                                                                    Just a quick note to say thanks to everyone for making this such a
                                                                                    fun way to get know more about fishkeeping. A very special thanks to
                                                                                    our 2 Moderators, Amalthea & Kelly, who have kept the group spam free
                                                                                    and ontopic.


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                                                                                    10 FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                    Hello, This is the Yahoo! Message Board for the Freshwater Tropical
                                                                                    Fish Aquarium community. This is the place to share your experience
                                                                                    with others, ask and answer questions, post ... more
                                                                                    Members: 181 | Archives: Members only
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 957 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??

                                                                                    Hi Erin,

                                                                                    If you tank is new, then don’t worry. It is a part of the maturing process called “cycle”. To help control Nitrite levels, you can do a 50% water change with dechlorinated water and add 1teaspoon salt per 5 gallons of water as an anti stress treatment.

                                                                                    There are products that help absorb nitrites, eg: API Nitrazorb, Amquel etc. but I don’t recommend them as they can interfere with the cycle process, however I have heard a lot good things about Bio-spira from Marineland and I think would be worth a try if you can get it. This is live refrigerated bacteria that needs to be kept at zero degrees to survive and has been known the be the most effective cycling product.

                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                     


                                                                                    From: Erin Vankouwenberg [mailto:celticmommy@...]
                                                                                    Sent: 26 February 2004 00:43
                                                                                    To: Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium
                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??

                                                                                     

                                                                                     Okay, yet another crisis for my mollies and platys... I've taken to frequent testing of the water quality after my LAST fiasco. I just did a partial water change on Sunday. Tonight I tested the water, and in BOTH tanks (the main 15 gallon, and the about 1 1/2 gallon "baby tank") have Nitrites testing in "danger".

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I read the labels on all of the water treatments we've got, and NONE of them say anything about treating Nitrites all by itself. I even tested the ammonia levels to see if that was the problem, and the ammonia levels are fine too.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I'm stumped. I've got a couple of questions.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    1) What could cause the Nitrites to get so high, just days after a partial water change?

                                                                                     

                                                                                    2) What can I do to fix it? On hand I've got Jungle Labs "Clear Water" (which we don't usually use, but it's there if we have a problem), ACE, Start Right, pH decreaser (which we don't use often either ... altho our local water is pretty hard, the mollies are fine with it), Ick Clear tabs and Fungus Clear tabs. I've also got a carton of aquarium salt.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Thanks in advance.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Erin

                                                                                    CelticParents

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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 958 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
                                                                                    I've had the tank about two months. Since I JUST had an ammonia spike a week or so ago, I guess this IS part of the cycling. Bleh. Hope it doesn't kill any of the fish! We've been trying to take really good care of the mollie fry (and one remaining platy fry) ... my daughter's kindergarten class is excited about having a classroom tank. 
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I'll do a water change this evening and see if it helps. Thanks!
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                    my messenger ID's ...
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                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                     
                                                                                    Date: 02/26/04 03:16:35
                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??
                                                                                     

                                                                                    Hi Erin,

                                                                                    If you tank is new, then don’t worry. It is a part of the maturing process called “cycle”. To help control Nitrite levels, you can do a 50% water change with dechlorinated water and add 1teaspoon salt per 5 gallons of water as an anti stress treatment.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 959 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??

                                                                                    Erin, if you had an ammonia spike last week, then it is indeed in the last stage of the Cycle. Do a water change but the nitrite spike will remain for a few days before starting to come down. You can add Aquarium salt to the tank to help the fish and the fry overcome this spike. If you can still get your hands on Bio-spira, I would recommend you to try it. Don’t do any major drastic water changes as it will delay the cycle process.

                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                     


                                                                                    From: Erin Vankouwenberg [mailto:celticmommy@...]
                                                                                    Sent: 26 February 2004 12:44
                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I've had the tank about two months. Since I JUST had an ammonia spike a week or so ago, I guess this IS part of the cycling. Bleh. Hope it doesn't kill any of the fish! We've been trying to take really good care of the mollie fry (and one remaining platy fry) ... my daughter's kindergarten class is excited about having a classroom tank. 

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I'll do a water change this evening and see if it helps. Thanks!

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Erin

                                                                                    CelticParents

                                                                                    my messenger ID's ...

                                                                                    Yahoo! messenger : vampifan22

                                                                                    MSN messenger (no email please!) : witchywmn42@...

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                                                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Date: 02/26/04 03:16:35

                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "danger" in Nitrites, when all other levels are fine??

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Hi Erin,

                                                                                    If you tank is new, then don’t worry. It is a part of the maturing process called “cycle”. To help control Nitrite levels, you can do a 50% water change with dechlorinated water and add 1teaspoon salt per 5 gallons of water as an anti stress treatment.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 960 From: John Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: black patches
                                                                                    Hi
                                                                                     
                                                                                    I have recently set up my first planted aquarium. I started with a heater cable and then I added plain sand (about 2") then 2" of a good plant nutrient, then I topped it off with a coarse gravel. This was all done about 2-3 weeks ago. I have planted it and there are a few fish in there.
                                                                                     
                                                                                    The thing is I have noticed black patches appearing in the substrate. any ideas?
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 961 From: derwag Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Cichlids in "Marine" Tank
                                                                                    I was wondering if anyone has run across someone who has put
                                                                                    Cichlids in a fish only tank with coral, etc. This may sound
                                                                                    unnatural but here is why I'm asking:

                                                                                    1) Cichlids appear to be the most vibrant freshwater fish
                                                                                    2) It seems like they would show well with a marine background (blue
                                                                                    tank background with white corals,coral gravel, etc.
                                                                                    3) The higher ph would be appreciated by them
                                                                                    4) It's a way to get a "saltwater tank" without the hassle and
                                                                                    expensive fish.

                                                                                    Am I missing something as to why this isn't possible/suggested? If
                                                                                    you have seen a set up like this, how did it look?

                                                                                    Derwag
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 962 From: traceyhanson Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: help needed with Sacem filter
                                                                                    I am very new to setting up an aquarium, and have only just joined
                                                                                    your group in the hope of learning more about my fish. At the moment
                                                                                    I have a problem though - I have had a 3 foot tank for a few months
                                                                                    now and have just upgraded to a 4 foot tank. The new (seconhand)
                                                                                    tank came with a filter and heater, but I dont know how to set up the
                                                                                    filter! It is a Sacem marathon 1000 and is in a box with lots of
                                                                                    plastic tubing, elbow peices etc and I dont know where they all go.
                                                                                    The person I bought it off cant help me as it was her husbands hobby,
                                                                                    and he is no longer around, and my filter in my other tank is a 'hang
                                                                                    on the side type' and completely different to this canister type
                                                                                    filter. Can anyone tell me where on the internet I could find an
                                                                                    instruction manual for this filter, or maybe someone has the same
                                                                                    filter and could scan the instructions for me? I am going crazy
                                                                                    trying to work out how it all goes together and of course I want the
                                                                                    tank up and running as soon as possible. Thanks for your help and
                                                                                    advice.
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 963 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: help needed with Sacem filter
                                                                                    you could try the www.craigslist.org in your city (go to the main site
                                                                                    and find your city on the list.) there are places on there that will no
                                                                                    doubt have people who can help you with it.
                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                    On Feb 26, 2004, at 8:41 PM, traceyhanson wrote:

                                                                                    > I am very new to setting up an aquarium, and have only just joined
                                                                                    > your group in the hope of learning more about my fish.  At the moment
                                                                                    > I have a problem though - I have had a 3 foot tank for a few months
                                                                                    > now and have just upgraded to a 4 foot tank.  The new (seconhand)
                                                                                    > tank came with a filter and heater, but I dont know how to set up the
                                                                                    > filter!  It is a Sacem marathon 1000 and is in a box with lots of
                                                                                    > plastic tubing, elbow peices etc and I dont know where they all go. 
                                                                                    > The person I bought it off cant help me as it was her husbands hobby,
                                                                                    > and he is no longer around, and my filter in my other tank is a 'hang
                                                                                    > on the side type' and completely different to this canister type
                                                                                    > filter.  Can anyone tell me where on the internet I could find an
                                                                                    > instruction manual for this filter, or maybe someone has the same
                                                                                    > filter and could scan the instructions for me?  I am going crazy
                                                                                    > trying to work out how it all goes together and of course I want the
                                                                                    > tank up and running as soon as possible.  Thanks for your help and
                                                                                    > advice.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                    web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 964 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: help needed with Sacem filter
                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                    Do you hae a digital-camera? Photos'of the parts posted on-site or through e-mails could help decipher if there's any resemblance to other filters.
                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 965 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: help needed with Sacem filter
                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                    Do you hae a digital-camera? Photos'of the parts posted on-site or through e-mails could help decipher if there's any resemblance to other filters.
                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 966 From: Ryan Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: I'm new, anyone want to trade?
                                                                                    I am new to this wicked cool place and I was just wondering if
                                                                                    anyone wanted to trade any plants with me.

                                                                                    I have Java moss, riccia fluitans, broad-leaf floating watersprite
                                                                                    and some apongentus plants. I am looking for any cool plants like
                                                                                    Micro swords, x-mas moss, erect moss, hairgrass or java ferns. If
                                                                                    anyone likes my plants or takes pity on a poor college student email
                                                                                    me. Good luck to everyone in this great hobby.
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 967 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: I'm new, anyone want to trade?
                                                                                    hey, where are you located?
                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                    On Feb 26, 2004, at 9:26 PM, Ryan wrote:

                                                                                    > I am new to this wicked cool place and I was just wondering if
                                                                                    > anyone wanted to trade any plants with me.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I have Java moss, riccia fluitans, broad-leaf floating watersprite
                                                                                    > and some apongentus plants.  I am looking for any cool plants like
                                                                                    > Micro swords, x-mas moss, erect moss, hairgrass or java ferns. If
                                                                                    > anyone likes my plants or takes pity on a poor college student email
                                                                                    > me.  Good luck to everyone in this great hobby.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                    for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                    religion....
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 968 From: Miss Denise Date: 2/26/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: I'm new, anyone want to trade?
                                                                                    Array

                                                                                    honey, where are you located?

                                                                                    Miss Denise


                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                    From: "Ryan" <sirskankalot@...>
                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 06:40 PM
                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] I'm new, anyone want to trade?

                                                                                    I am new to this wicked cool place and I was just wondering if
                                                                                    anyone wanted to trade any plants with me.

                                                                                    I have Java moss, riccia fluitans, broad-leaf floating watersprite
                                                                                    and some apongentus plants.  I am looking for any cool plants like
                                                                                    Micro swords, x-mas moss, erect moss, hairgrass or java ferns. If
                                                                                    anyone likes my plants or takes pity on a poor college student email
                                                                                    me.  Good luck to everyone in this great hobby.











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                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 969 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/27/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: help needed with Sacem filter
                                                                                    Tracy, I have a Sacem Marathon 1500. very similar to your 1000. Sacem does
                                                                                    not provide connector taps with their filter so it is better you buy them
                                                                                    yourself from any DIT store. I suppose your hose measurements are (inflow
                                                                                    hose - 16 mm, Outflow Hose, 14 mm) very odd sizes but can't help it. All the
                                                                                    elbows you mention are only for the use on the inlets and outlet bends of
                                                                                    the tank as there is no standard U Tube provided I suppose.

                                                                                    You have to options for the Media chamber - Baskets or no baskets. If you
                                                                                    use the baskets(that are very flimsy and will collapse on an uneven surface)
                                                                                    you will have to discard the long green plate that came inside it. This
                                                                                    plate is only for use in case when you re not using the media baskets and
                                                                                    using the entire chamber to fill with media. The second option I consider is
                                                                                    better. If you want I can post a pic of my Sacem to make you understand
                                                                                    better.

                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                    >From: traceyhanson [mailto:traceyhanson@...]
                                                                                    >Sent: 27 February 2004 01:41
                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] help needed with Sacem filter
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >I am very new to setting up an aquarium, and have only just joined
                                                                                    >your group in the hope of learning more about my fish. At the moment
                                                                                    >I have a problem though - I have had a 3 foot tank for a few months
                                                                                    >now and have just upgraded to a 4 foot tank. The new (seconhand)
                                                                                    >tank came with a filter and heater, but I dont know how to set up the
                                                                                    >filter! It is a Sacem marathon 1000 and is in a box with lots of
                                                                                    >plastic tubing, elbow peices etc and I dont know where they all go.
                                                                                    >The person I bought it off cant help me as it was her husbands hobby,
                                                                                    >and he is no longer around, and my filter in my other tank is a 'hang
                                                                                    >on the side type' and completely different to this canister type
                                                                                    >filter. Can anyone tell me where on the internet I could find an
                                                                                    >instruction manual for this filter, or maybe someone has the same
                                                                                    >filter and could scan the instructions for me? I am going crazy
                                                                                    >trying to work out how it all goes together and of course I want the
                                                                                    >tank up and running as soon as possible. Thanks for your help and
                                                                                    >advice.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 970 From: Ryan Date: 2/27/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: I'm new, anyone want to trade?
                                                                                    I live in Maine.



                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan"
                                                                                    <sirskankalot@h...> wrote:
                                                                                    > I am new to this wicked cool place and I was just wondering if
                                                                                    > anyone wanted to trade any plants with me.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    > I have Java moss, riccia fluitans, broad-leaf floating watersprite
                                                                                    > and some apongentus plants. I am looking for any cool plants like
                                                                                    > Micro swords, x-mas moss, erect moss, hairgrass or java ferns. If
                                                                                    > anyone likes my plants or takes pity on a poor college student
                                                                                    email
                                                                                    > me. Good luck to everyone in this great hobby.
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 971 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 2/27/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Bio Wheel Filters
                                                                                    I was wondering if any of you could tell me your expreiances with
                                                                                    these filters. both good and bad is what i am looking for. i am
                                                                                    thinking about getting one, but i am not sure. i wanted to get user
                                                                                    feed back on these. also what brand is better. any help would be
                                                                                    great.


                                                                                    Eric
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 972 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/27/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Bio Wheel Filters
                                                                                    Eric,

                                                                                    A biowheel is primarily a Biological filter with no other purpose. It cannot
                                                                                    perform mechanical or chemical filtration. It would be most useful in case
                                                                                    of heavy fish load or a fluctuating fish load or a marine tank where no
                                                                                    ammonia or nitrite can be tolerated. It can also be used with sensitive
                                                                                    fish. It also has a couple of drawbacks like if not used with a proper
                                                                                    pre-filter, it can easily choke itself and its performance will drop
                                                                                    drastically.

                                                                                    I am not aware of any brands of Biowheel so cannot suggest in that
                                                                                    direction.

                                                                                    Nim


                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                    >From: red_5sw@... [mailto:red_5sw@...]
                                                                                    >Sent: 27 February 2004 19:36
                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bio Wheel Filters
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >I was wondering if any of you could tell me your expreiances with
                                                                                    >these filters. both good and bad is what i am looking for. i am
                                                                                    >thinking about getting one, but i am not sure. i wanted to get user
                                                                                    >feed back on these. also what brand is better. any help would be
                                                                                    >great.
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >Eric
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    >
                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 973 From: amalthea x Date: 2/27/2004
                                                                                    Subject: Re: Bio Wheel Filters
                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                      Eric,

                                                                                      A biowheel is primarily a Biological filter with no other purpose. It cannot
                                                                                      perform mechanical or chemical filtration. It would be most useful in case
                                                                                      of heavy fish load or a fluctuating fish load or a marine tank where no
                                                                                      ammonia or nitrite can be tolerated. It can also be used with sensitive
                                                                                      fish. It also has a couple of drawbacks like if not used with a proper
                                                                                      pre-filter, it can easily choke itself and its performance will drop
                                                                                      drastically.

                                                                                      I am not aware of any brands of Biowheel so cannot suggest in that
                                                                                      direction.

                                                                                      Nim


                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                      >From: red_5sw@... [mailto:red_5sw@...]
                                                                                      >Sent: 27 February 2004 19:36
                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bio Wheel Filters
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >I was wondering if any of you could tell me your expreiances with
                                                                                      >these filters. both good and bad is what i am looking for. i am
                                                                                      >thinking about getting one, but i am not sure. i wanted to get user
                                                                                      >feed back on these. also what brand is better. any help would be
                                                                                      >great.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Eric
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 974 From: Sarah Date: 2/28/2004
                                                                                      Subject: DYING ANGEL....HELP!!
                                                                                      Yesterday his Pectoral fins were like red with "blood"  and he was very quiet not swimming around much. We put in some anti bacterial treatment coz he was isolated. today he is worse he is  lying on his side and his fins are like splitting all there is is the little lines left no "skin" left on them, What can we do, that might help????
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Regards
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Sarah & Tony
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 975 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/28/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: DYING ANGEL....HELP!!

                                                                                      Sarah,

                                                                                      Id suggest slowly increase the temperature to 28C or 30C and give it a salt treatment of 2 teaspoons per gallon. If possible also treat with Melafix. Both these treatments should take care of most parasites or fungus. Raising the temperature will increase the metabolic rate of the parasites and medication will effect faster. But if the salt bath does not work, then its unlikely that anything else will at this stage.

                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                       


                                                                                      From: Sarah [mailto:sarah@...]
                                                                                      Sent: 28 February 2004 11:58
                                                                                      To: Fish group 1
                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] DYING ANGEL....HELP!!

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Yesterday his Pectoral fins were like red with "blood"  and he was very quiet not swimming around much. We put in some anti bacterial treatment coz he was isolated. today he is worse he is  lying on his side and his fins are like splitting all there is is the little lines left no "skin" left on them, What can we do, that might help????

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Regards

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Sarah & Tony

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 976 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 2/28/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: DYING ANGEL....HELP!!

                                                                                      Oh. Since you have quarantined the fish, you can also try treating it with Methylene Blue.

                                                                                       


                                                                                      From: Sarah [mailto:sarah@...]
                                                                                      Sent: 28 February 2004 11:58
                                                                                      To: Fish group 1
                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] DYING ANGEL....HELP!!

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Yesterday his Pectoral fins were like red with "blood"  and he was very quiet not swimming around much. We put in some anti bacterial treatment coz he was isolated. today he is worse he is  lying on his side and his fins are like splitting all there is is the little lines left no "skin" left on them, What can we do, that might help????

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Regards

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Sarah & Tony

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 977 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 2/28/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Mystery Shrimp ~ Can You Please Identify
                                                                                      Hi everyone,

                                                                                      I am curious as to what kind of shrimp I have in my 12 gallon/45
                                                                                      liter planted tank. I had bought 6 "Amano" Shrimp in December to help
                                                                                      keep the Java Moss clean. 2 had crawled out of the previous 2 tanks I
                                                                                      had them in before I realized that they had to be in a completely
                                                                                      sealed tank or their curiosity would kill them. I still have 3 of the
                                                                                      original doing just fine at about 3/4 (.75) of an inch / 1.9
                                                                                      centimeters in size. However, the fourth shrimp has gotten very large
                                                                                      and I no longer believe it to be the overpriced "amano" Shrimp. It is
                                                                                      about 2.5-3 inches / 6.5-7.5 centimeters in length, or 4 times the
                                                                                      size of the other 3 shrimp. Its claws are noticeably menacing looking
                                                                                      and it has a voracious appetite and an aggressive demeanor. I do not
                                                                                      want a carnivore in there eating my few remaining Male Hybrid
                                                                                      Miniature Mollies as I plan on trying to breed them with some Sail
                                                                                      fin Mollies soon. There is a picture of it on the Home page as well
                                                                                      as 15 more in the Photos section in the Left Column.
                                                                                      Photo Albums > Aaron's > Mystery Shrimp ~ Can You Please Identify

                                                                                      Thank you,

                                                                                      Aaron R. Martin, cmt ~ Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

                                                                                      got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

                                                                                      stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 978 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 2/28/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Baby brine shrimp ???
                                                                                      Hi to everyone,
                                                                                      I'm fairly new to having an aquarium. Recently I purchased a 10 gallon tank and I have a thriving community of neons, a molly, a platy, female betta, a bottom feeder, zebra danos and a mystery snail. So having accomplished this in a short amount of time I decided to raise some bbs (baby brine shrimp) to feed my fish and fry which should be arriving very soon. I was astonished at the prices that my local fish stores wanted for a start up kit of bbs (around $20.00). Not wanting to pay that amount I went to a local store for children and purchased a seamonkey starter kit for $6.95. I started the bbs off in a mason jar and all was going fine for the first week. This weekend I decided to move them into a 1 gallon tank I had laying around but I don't think there's enough water now. Does anyone know what the water to salt ratio is so that I can add more water without killing my newly hatched bbs? Any help would be much appreciated.This is   for  a good  friend of mine  and she  is   having trouble finding  help anywhere.
                                                                                      Crys

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 979 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 2/28/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Baby brine shrimp ???
                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                      Did a GOOGLE search using 'ratio of water to salt for brine shrimp', and among others, the site below;

                                                                                      http://members.aol.com/ScienzFair/brine.htm

                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 980 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 2/28/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: DYING ANGEL....HELP!!
                                                                                      The anti-bacterial treatment might have been too late. Were the red spots like streaks? Once they start lying on their side, I'm afraid you've only got a few hours left. (I've had four fish die so far, and they all lied on their sides when they weren't being nipped at.)
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Here is the info on the back of my Fungus Clear package (Jungle Labs makes this treatment) ...
                                                                                       
                                                                                      HEMORRHAGIC SEPTICEMIA Red streaks on fins or body with no sign of fin damage.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      TAIL, FIN, OR MOUTH ROT Flesh eaten away around mouth, tail or fin. Possible redness at base of area.
                                                                                       
                                                                                      If your angel hasn't died, you might try treating with Fungus Clear or a similar fungus treatment. Good luck! 
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                       
                                                                                      browse my sig tags for request and extras
                                                                                      (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                      check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                       
                                                                                      visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Date: 02/28/04 06:58:05
                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] DYING ANGEL....HELP!!
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Yesterday his Pectoral fins were like red with "blood"  and he was very quiet not swimming around much. We put in some anti bacterial treatment coz he was isolated. today he is worse he is  lying on his side and his fins are like splitting all there is is the little lines left no "skin" left on them, What can we do, that might help????
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Regards
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Sarah & Tony
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 981 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 2/28/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Baby brine shrimp ???
                                                                                      Thank you
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 982 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/28/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Got two new angelfish...... one is acting funny.... any help ?
                                                                                      I got two new angelfish today, one of them is leaning kind to the
                                                                                      side like he is lopsided.?. and he has a small twitch not bad but a
                                                                                      little shake from time to time. And Thoughs? Never had Angels before.
                                                                                      I have a 14 day warranty on it. Just don't want it to get anyone else
                                                                                      acting funny or sick :( And how do you sex angels? Thank you Sherrie
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 983 From: amalthea23 Date: 2/29/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Got two new angelfish...... one is acting funny.... any help ?
                                                                                      it sounds a little bit like it's got shimmy. i know discus get that,
                                                                                      but i'm not sure about angels. if it does have that, the most humane
                                                                                      thing would be to put it down, but other members of the group might be
                                                                                      able to identify the illness otherwise...
                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                      On Feb 29, 2004, at 2:09 AM, freedombell2002 wrote:

                                                                                      > I got two new angelfish today, one of them is leaning kind to the
                                                                                      > side like he is lopsided.?. and he has a small twitch not bad but a
                                                                                      > little shake from time to time. And Thoughs? Never had Angels before.
                                                                                      > I have a 14 day warranty on it. Just don't want it to get anyone else
                                                                                      > acting funny or sick :( And how do you sex angels? Thank you Sherrie
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
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                                                                                      don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 984 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/29/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Got two new angelfish...... one is acting funny.... any help ?
                                                                                      hi Sherrie,

                                                                                      Can you please describe your tank, how old is it, what
                                                                                      other inmates u have in there ??

                                                                                      This will help us to help u.

                                                                                      As regards sexing, i find the males have some sort of
                                                                                      a bump/hump on their forehead u can say.

                                                                                      For more details on angles fish u can check this forum
                                                                                      dedicated entirely to anglefish.

                                                                                      http://www.awforum.net/angelfish/post_info.asp

                                                                                      Hope this helps...SuNnY !


                                                                                      --- freedombell2002 <KPribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > I got two new angelfish today, one of them is
                                                                                      > leaning kind to the
                                                                                      > side like he is lopsided.?. and he has a small
                                                                                      > twitch not bad but a
                                                                                      > little shake from time to time. And Thoughs? Never
                                                                                      > had Angels before.
                                                                                      > I have a 14 day warranty on it. Just don't want it
                                                                                      > to get anyone else
                                                                                      > acting funny or sick :( And how do you sex angels?
                                                                                      > Thank you Sherrie
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 985 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/29/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Baby brine shrimp ???
                                                                                      Hi Crys,

                                                                                      Check this out..

                                                                                      http://www.petfish.net/brine.htm

                                                                                      http://webrbiz.com/angelfish/amh.html

                                                                                      hope this helps....SuNnY!

                                                                                      --- CRYS NOLAN <clnolan@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > Hi to everyone,
                                                                                      > I'm fairly new to having an aquarium. Recently I
                                                                                      > purchased a 10 gallon tank and I have a thriving
                                                                                      > community of neons, a molly, a platy, female betta,
                                                                                      > a bottom feeder, zebra danos and a mystery snail. So
                                                                                      > having accomplished this in a short amount of time I
                                                                                      > decided to raise some bbs (baby brine shrimp) to
                                                                                      > feed my fish and fry which should be arriving very
                                                                                      > soon. I was astonished at the prices that my local
                                                                                      > fish stores wanted for a start up kit of bbs (around
                                                                                      > $20.00). Not wanting to pay that amount I went to a
                                                                                      > local store for children and purchased a seamonkey
                                                                                      > starter kit for $6.95. I started the bbs off in a
                                                                                      > mason jar and all was going fine for the first week.
                                                                                      > This weekend I decided to move them into a 1 gallon
                                                                                      > tank I had laying around but I don't think there's
                                                                                      > enough water now. Does anyone know what the water to
                                                                                      > salt ratio is so that I can add more water without
                                                                                      > killing my newly hatched bbs? Any help would be much
                                                                                      > appreciated.This is for a good friend of mine
                                                                                      > and she is having trouble finding help anywhere.
                                                                                      > Crys
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > a..
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 986 From: freedombell2002 Date: 2/29/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Got two new angelfish...... one is acting funny.... any help ?
                                                                                      Thanks everyone for the help but...... I think I might have of just
                                                                                      jumped alittle fast. This morning they seem to be fine swimming out
                                                                                      in the tank and not twitching and NOT leaning. I might have been been
                                                                                      a nervous mommy. And they were adjusting to a new home. I will watch
                                                                                      and wait to see how they do :) Thanks sunny for the angle website.
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 987 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 2/29/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Baby brine shrimp ???
                                                                                      Thank you
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 988 From: schuyler sloane Date: 2/29/2004
                                                                                      Subject: need help asap
                                                                                      anybody out there this is a call to arms, help me.
                                                                                      i just did a check on my 10 gallon tank with my 4 blue gouramis and
                                                                                      my 2 angel fish, it is an established tank, p.h. 7.4
                                                                                      ammonia is 0 but my nitrites are off the charts, what should i do i
                                                                                      did a water change and will do one everyday to dilute it but whats up
                                                                                      with the ammonia being 0 i dont understand that i would have expected
                                                                                      that to be higher, please send me an e-mail; if you can help.
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 989 From: sunil kamath Date: 2/29/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: need help asap
                                                                                      Hi,

                                                                                      How are you fishes doing, are they okay or are they
                                                                                      showing any symptoms of stress or lethargy... if
                                                                                      everythings okay then there no need to panic..

                                                                                      What is the tempr of your tank ??

                                                                                      Sorry i cant be of much help but there are others who
                                                                                      might help u....SuNnY !!

                                                                                      --- schuyler sloane <mr_sky_531a@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > anybody out there this is a call to arms, help me.
                                                                                      > i just did a check on my 10 gallon tank with my 4
                                                                                      > blue gouramis and
                                                                                      > my 2 angel fish, it is an established tank, p.h. 7.4
                                                                                      > ammonia is 0 but my nitrites are off the charts,
                                                                                      > what should i do i
                                                                                      > did a water change and will do one everyday to
                                                                                      > dilute it but whats up
                                                                                      > with the ammonia being 0 i dont understand that i
                                                                                      > would have expected
                                                                                      > that to be higher, please send me an e-mail; if you
                                                                                      > can help.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 990 From: Walter Cain Date: 2/29/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: need help asap
                                                                                      You might need to clean you filter.  Sometimes they can cause a buld up nitrites.

                                                                                      sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...> wrote:
                                                                                      Hi,

                                                                                      How are you fishes doing, are they okay or are they
                                                                                      showing any symptoms of stress or lethargy... if
                                                                                      everythings okay then there no need to panic..

                                                                                      What is the tempr of your tank ??

                                                                                      Sorry i cant be of much help but there are others who
                                                                                      might help u....SuNnY !!

                                                                                      --- schuyler sloane <mr_sky_531a@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > anybody out there this is a call to arms, help me.
                                                                                      > i just did a check on my 10 gallon tank with my 4
                                                                                      > blue gouramis and
                                                                                      > my 2 angel fish, it is an established tank, p.h. 7.4
                                                                                      > ammonia is 0  but my nitrites are off the charts,
                                                                                      > what should i do i
                                                                                      > did a water change and will do one everyday to
                                                                                      > dilute it but whats up
                                                                                      > with the ammonia being 0 i dont understand that i
                                                                                      > would have expected
                                                                                      > that to be higher, please send me an e-mail; if you
                                                                                      > can help.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 991 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: need help asap
                                                                                      Sounds like the same thing I had happen to me a few days ago. My ammonia and all other readings were all in "safe" levels, but nitrates were in "danger" level. (Darn dipstick things, with their vague descriptions)
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Only thing I can think is what was recommended to me ... water changes and it should get better in a few days. My tank has been "established" for a couple of months now, and I had an ammonia spike last week. So I guess my cycling happened later than I expected. (btw despite the scary "danger" reading on my Nitrates, my fish are all fine, even the babies in their own little tank, and I'm going to do another test tomorrow to check up on it.)
                                                                                       
                                                                                      How long have you had your tank set up? Do the fish appear to be undergoing stress? Are they acting sick at all?
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                       
                                                                                      browse my sig tags for request and extras
                                                                                      (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                      check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                       
                                                                                      visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                       
                                                                                      Date: 02/29/04 23:05:20
                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] need help asap
                                                                                       
                                                                                      anybody out there this is a call to arms, help me.
                                                                                      i just did a check on my 10 gallon tank with my 4 blue gouramis and
                                                                                      my 2 angel fish, it is an established tank, p.h. 7.4
                                                                                      ammonia is 0  but my nitrites are off the charts, what should i do i
                                                                                      did a water change and will do one everyday to dilute it but whats up
                                                                                      with the ammonia being 0 i dont understand that i would have expected
                                                                                      that to be higher, please send me an e-mail; if you can help.

                                                                                       
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 992 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: need help asap
                                                                                      Zero ammonia and a Nitrite spike is a very common stage during a cycling
                                                                                      process. This is a stage when 1 part of the bacterial colony has developed
                                                                                      and the other part is still developing. Add some salt (1ist per 5 gallons)
                                                                                      after a water change and things should be ok. Let the cycle process complete
                                                                                      peacefully and if you want, you can do 10% daily water changes or 20%
                                                                                      alternate days. Just make sure that you add a water conditioner and relevant
                                                                                      amount pf salt to the water before adding it to the tank.

                                                                                      Rest, keep us updated and see the behaviors of the fish. If they seem
                                                                                      stressed, add a little more salt and do a major water change.

                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                      >From: schuyler sloane [mailto:mr_sky_531a@...]
                                                                                      >Sent: 01 March 2004 04:04
                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] need help asap
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >anybody out there this is a call to arms, help me.
                                                                                      >i just did a check on my 10 gallon tank with my 4 blue gouramis and
                                                                                      >my 2 angel fish, it is an established tank, p.h. 7.4
                                                                                      >ammonia is 0 but my nitrites are off the charts, what should i do i
                                                                                      >did a water change and will do one everyday to dilute it but whats up
                                                                                      >with the ammonia being 0 i dont understand that i would have expected
                                                                                      >that to be higher, please send me an e-mail; if you can help.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 993 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: need help asap

                                                                                      Walter, it is the most unrecomended scenario unless the filter is chocked. If the filter is not chocked and even little water is flowing through, let it run till the cycle is complete. A chocked filter will cause a Nitrate spike rather then Nitrite. It will also cause an ammonia spike rather then Nitrite.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                       


                                                                                      From: Walter Cain [mailto:wjcoldman@...]
                                                                                      Sent: 01 March 2004 05:29
                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] need help asap

                                                                                       

                                                                                      You might need to clean you filter.  Sometimes they can cause a buld up nitrites.

                                                                                      sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...> wrote:

                                                                                      Hi,

                                                                                      How are you fishes doing, are they okay or are they
                                                                                      showing any symptoms of stress or lethargy... if
                                                                                      everythings okay then there no need to panic..

                                                                                      What is the tempr of your tank ??

                                                                                      Sorry i cant be of much help but there are others who
                                                                                      might help u....SuNnY !!

                                                                                      --- schuyler sloane <mr_sky_531a@...> wrote:
                                                                                      > anybody out there this is a call to arms, help me.
                                                                                      > i just did a check on my 10 gallon tank with my 4
                                                                                      > blue gouramis and
                                                                                      > my 2 angel fish, it is an established tank, p.h. 7.4
                                                                                      > ammonia is 0  but my nitrites are off the charts,
                                                                                      > what should i do i
                                                                                      > did a water change and will do one everyday to
                                                                                      > dilute it but whats up
                                                                                      > with the ammonia being 0 i dont understand that i
                                                                                      > would have expected
                                                                                      > that to be higher, please send me an e-mail; if you
                                                                                      > can help.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


                                                                                      __________________________________
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                                                                                      Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
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                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 994 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Your not going to believe what we bought today..... A 150 gallon ta
                                                                                      yes I said that right 150 gallon tank!!! I'm sick about it!! Also
                                                                                      very excited. WE found this killer deal and just couldn't say no. Now
                                                                                      I have to find a place in my house to put it. WE pick the tank up in
                                                                                      about two weeks ( got to find someone with a truck) but ...... I
                                                                                      don't think we will get it up running for awhile were going to be buy
                                                                                      stuff for it for awhile and get it all going BEFORE adding anything
                                                                                      to it. Were thinking about brackish fish. Scats and Monos. Maybe a
                                                                                      Acher or two. could be fun :) scared, happy, excited and buyers
                                                                                      remorse all roll into one. What Have we gotten our self into!! okay
                                                                                      just dyeing to tell someone. will post pics for SURE!! When we get
                                                                                      all up and going. Sherrie
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 995 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Water Changes
                                                                                      You know, it wasn't until I started filling my new 55 gallon tank that I
                                                                                      realized I wasn't sure what I'm going to do about water changes...

                                                                                      All my previous tanks were smaller... 10 or 20 gallons. So keeping a half
                                                                                      dozen milk containers filled with water wasn't a big deal.

                                                                                      So I'm wondering how most of you handle this?

                                                                                      Tony
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 996 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: literature
                                                                                      I'm looking for book and or magazine recommendations. Looking to see what
                                                                                      other people are reading.

                                                                                      Tony
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 997 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      Tony,

                                                                                      I have a 210 Litre Water butt with an external canister filter plugged into
                                                                                      it(got the canister off ebay and it does not have to be top of the line) and
                                                                                      a 300W heater in there. I fill up the water butt on Sunday and let the
                                                                                      filter with peat and water softener pillow run in it for over the week.
                                                                                      Switch on the heater on Friday night and I then just have to divert the
                                                                                      output from my canister into the 2 90 gallon tanks and a 25 gallon. Takes a
                                                                                      few minuets but effortless. Just siphon the tank to a marked position and
                                                                                      refill with the water butt. It may take a couple of times to get the exact
                                                                                      measurements right if you have more then 1 tank, however for 1 tank, you can
                                                                                      do as much as 50% water change every weekend without any efforts.

                                                                                      I have had a record change of 25% water in my 90 gallon in 12 minutes when I
                                                                                      used an Aquaclear 402 pump to push water to the tank from the storage.

                                                                                      You can mix fertilizers, water conditioners or other additives to this water
                                                                                      on Monday itself to ensure proper mixing.

                                                                                      Nim


                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                      >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                      >Sent: 01 March 2004 13:00
                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Water Changes
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >You know, it wasn't until I started filling my new 55 gallon tank that I
                                                                                      >realized I wasn't sure what I'm going to do about water changes...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >All my previous tanks were smaller... 10 or 20 gallons. So keeping a half
                                                                                      >dozen milk containers filled with water wasn't a big deal.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >So I'm wondering how most of you handle this?
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Tony
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 998 From: Mejim6@aol.com Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      In a message dated 3/1/04 8:23:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, tbittick@... writes:


                                                                                      You know, it wasn't until I started filling my new 55 gallon tank that I
                                                                                      realized I wasn't sure what I'm going to do about water changes...

                                                                                      All my previous tanks were smaller... 10 or 20 gallons. So keeping a half
                                                                                      dozen milk containers filled with water wasn't a big deal.


                                                                                      For some water changes I keep a large plastic trash can filled with water.  I use a submersible heater so it is ready to go.  To pump it out to the aquarium I use a powerhead attached to clear vinyl tubing.  I only use this method for fish that I am concerned about being sensitive.  For my other tanks I use a No Spill Clean and Fill which is by far the easiest.

                                                                                      Melissa in Ohio
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 999 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      What is a No Spill Clean and Fill?


                                                                                      Mejim6@... writes:

                                                                                      > In a message dated 3/1/04 8:23:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                      > tbittick@... writes:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >> You know, it wasn't until I started filling my new 55 gallon tank that I
                                                                                      >> realized I wasn't sure what I'm going to do about water changes...
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> All my previous tanks were smaller... 10 or 20 gallons. So keeping a half
                                                                                      >> dozen milk containers filled with water wasn't a big deal.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > For some water changes I keep a large plastic trash can filled with water. I
                                                                                      > use a submersible heater so it is ready to go. To pump it out to the
                                                                                      > aquarium I use a powerhead attached to clear vinyl tubing. I only use this method
                                                                                      > for fish that I am concerned about being sensitive. For my other tanks I use a
                                                                                      > No Spill Clean and Fill which is by far the easiest.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Melissa in Ohio
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1000 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: heater back up
                                                                                      I live in Michigan and unfortunately my tank resides in my basement office
                                                                                      where it is usually cooler than other parts of the house. Between the
                                                                                      submersible heater I'm using and the space heater for the office (when
                                                                                      necessary)I'm not having any issues regarding temp.

                                                                                      However... at least a couple of times a year we will lose power for weather
                                                                                      related reasons. Although not usually for more than a couple of hours, it
                                                                                      has been a couple of days at a time before.

                                                                                      I'm wondering if anybody has any ideas for heat back ups... I don't know,
                                                                                      something battery operated or something?

                                                                                      It's actually how I lost my first two aquariums 20 years ago. I was out of
                                                                                      state and my parents didn't know what to do. They were without power for
                                                                                      about a week and my fish all died.

                                                                                      Thoughts?
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1001 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      Tony,

                                                                                      It's a Python product. You can just connect the system to your tap and it
                                                                                      will empty the tank water into your sink and refill it with tap water. I
                                                                                      however will not use this method ever again as the first time I tried it
                                                                                      (with water conditioner pouring in simultaneously to the tap water. I had
                                                                                      also pre treated the water with the conditioner and within 48 hrs lost all
                                                                                      my tanganyikans. Reasons are still not 100% sure but its only my view.
                                                                                      People have had good success with it.

                                                                                      Nim


                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                      >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                      >Sent: 01 March 2004 14:46
                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >What is a No Spill Clean and Fill?
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Mejim6@... writes:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >> In a message dated 3/1/04 8:23:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                      >> tbittick@... writes:
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >>> You know, it wasn't until I started filling my new 55 gallon tank that I
                                                                                      >>> realized I wasn't sure what I'm going to do about water changes...
                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                      >>> All my previous tanks were smaller... 10 or 20 gallons. So keeping a
                                                                                      >half
                                                                                      >>> dozen milk containers filled with water wasn't a big deal.
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> For some water changes I keep a large plastic trash can filled with
                                                                                      >water. I
                                                                                      >> use a submersible heater so it is ready to go. To pump it out to the
                                                                                      >> aquarium I use a powerhead attached to clear vinyl tubing. I only use
                                                                                      >this method
                                                                                      >> for fish that I am concerned about being sensitive. For my other tanks I
                                                                                      >use a
                                                                                      >> No Spill Clean and Fill which is by far the easiest.
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> Melissa in Ohio
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1002 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      do you mean about chlorine? i just use stress coat and i have a 2.5
                                                                                      gallon bucket that i use just for the water changes.
                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                      On Mar 1, 2004, at 7:59 AM, tbittick wrote:

                                                                                      > You know, it wasn't until I started filling my new 55 gallon tank that
                                                                                      > I
                                                                                      > realized I wasn't sure what I'm going to do about water changes...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > All my previous tanks were smaller... 10 or 20 gallons. So keeping a
                                                                                      > half
                                                                                      > dozen milk containers filled with water wasn't a big deal.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > So I'm wondering how most of you handle this?
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Tony
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                      >  
                                                                                      > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                      > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >  
                                                                                      > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                      > Service.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >


                                                                                      http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                      don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1003 From: tbittick Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      I was mostly talking about the volume of water. How and where people aer
                                                                                      moving it.

                                                                                      I mean 30% water change on a 55 gallon tank is something like 15-20 gallons.
                                                                                      That's a fairly significant about of water to be moving around. I've gotten
                                                                                      some good answers so far.

                                                                                      T




                                                                                      amalthea23 writes:

                                                                                      > do you mean about chlorine? i just use stress coat and i have a 2.5
                                                                                      > gallon bucket that i use just for the water changes.
                                                                                      > amalthea
                                                                                      > On Mar 1, 2004, at 7:59 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >> You know, it wasn't until I started filling my new 55 gallon tank that
                                                                                      >> I
                                                                                      >> realized I wasn't sure what I'm going to do about water changes...
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> All my previous tanks were smaller... 10 or 20 gallons. So keeping a
                                                                                      >> half
                                                                                      >> dozen milk containers filled with water wasn't a big deal.
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> So I'm wondering how most of you handle this?
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> Tony
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                      >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                      >> Service.
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >>
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                      > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1004 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      ah, i just do it by bucket to the bathroom, it doesn't really take that
                                                                                      long at all, maybe 20 minutes in all. if i had a longer hose, in the
                                                                                      summer, i'd just let the water out the window actually...
                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                      On Mar 1, 2004, at 10:52 AM, tbittick wrote:

                                                                                      > I was mostly talking about the volume of water. How and where people
                                                                                      > aer
                                                                                      > moving it.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > I mean 30% water change on a 55 gallon tank is something like 15-20
                                                                                      > gallons.
                                                                                      > That's a fairly significant about of water to be moving around. I've
                                                                                      > gotten
                                                                                      > some good answers so far.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      > T
                                                                                      >

                                                                                      http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                      don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1005 From: mcmikemc59 Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                      I get my salt from the pet supply center. It is made for fresh water
                                                                                      aquariums. The instructions with the salt are 1 tablespoon per five
                                                                                      gallons not one. Please do not use table salt,it will kill your fish.
                                                                                      Also after you have added the salt you need only add more when ever
                                                                                      you do a water change and then only for the amount you change out not
                                                                                      the amount in the tank.
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1006 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      I have a 75 gallon, and I figure with gravel and rocks, etc, 60 gallons. I have 5, 2 1/2 gallon, plastic buckets that I use for fresh water, and three 5 gallon buckets that I use for draining water. (got those from a grocer, and the jobsite, ie., drywall-compound-buckets). I often use the drained water to water my houseplants. I bought one of those flexible, liquid-crystal, 'stick-on-the-outside-of-the-aquarium' thermometers, removed the glue, and take the 'inside the tank' waters' temperature, and since I have a single-lever-kitchen-faucet, adjust the faucet-water to the temperature of the aquarium, while running water into the buckets. I add 1/4 tsp. aquarium-salt to the buckets before running water into them, and the dechlorinator/trace-element-additive after the water's drawn, then mix-it. There's a link to my little website you can access by clicking my yahoo nickname, where there are a few pictures of the tank as it was not too long ago.
                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1007 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water Changes
                                                                                      I have a 75 gallon, and I figure with gravel and rocks, etc, 60 gallons. I have 5, 2 1/2 gallon, plastic buckets that I use for fresh water, and three 5 gallon buckets that I use for draining water. (got those from a grocer, and the jobsite, ie., drywall-compound-buckets). I often use the drained water to water my houseplants. I bought one of those flexible, liquid-crystal, 'stick-on-the-outside-of-the-aquarium' thermometers, removed the glue, and take the 'inside the tank' waters' temperature, and since I have a single-lever-kitchen-faucet, adjust the faucet-water to the temperature of the aquarium, while running water into the buckets. I add 1/4 tsp. aquarium-salt to the buckets before running water into them, and the dechlorinator/trace-element-additive after the water's drawn, then mix-it. There's a link to my little website you can access by clicking my yahoo nickname, where there are a few pictures of the tank as it was not too long ago.
                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1008 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Re: literature
                                                                                      Tony, in the UK nothing comes better then the Practical Fish keeping
                                                                                      magazine (called the PFK) . other then this, its all the information on the
                                                                                      net.

                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                      >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                      >Sent: 01 March 2004 13:01
                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] literature
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >I'm looking for book and or magazine recommendations. Looking to see what
                                                                                      >other people are reading.
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Tony
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      >
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1009 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Gravel cleaning
                                                                                      I have just recently started having an aquarium again. Used have a
                                                                                      couple tanks years ago, and I am just wondering if anybody has seen
                                                                                      or knows where I might get an air activated gravel syphon. They are
                                                                                      smaller dia. than these self start syphons and you hooked an airline
                                                                                      to them to create the suction. They had a fine mesh net on the out
                                                                                      end of the syphon that caught all the garbage you sucked up and the
                                                                                      water went right back into the tank. I had one about 20 years ago and
                                                                                      it was great for in between water changes to clean the bottom up a
                                                                                      little or for when you accidently put in to much food. I have been
                                                                                      looking for one for about a year now and have been to every pet store
                                                                                      on my side of town. Everybody has these self start syphons but not
                                                                                      the little air operated one. I have the self start syphon and it is
                                                                                      great at water changing time but not for in between times.

                                                                                      Any way just thought I would ask. If you know where I might find
                                                                                      one please let me know.

                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1010 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: nitrite levels
                                                                                      My tank has been running now for two weeks, roughly. About one week with
                                                                                      plants.

                                                                                      The plants are doing great.

                                                                                      I'm getting ready to add fish. Today I checked the nitrite and ammonia
                                                                                      thinking I should do so BEFORE adding the fish.

                                                                                      The ammonia was fine the nitrites were off the chart.

                                                                                      I think I remember somebody saying this would happen if I started with
                                                                                      plants. I've added a little fish food to the tank to help create some waste.

                                                                                      Am I okay adding fish when the nitrites are so high?

                                                                                      Tony
                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1011 From: Sarah Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                      Subject: Gloden Danio Problems!!!!!!!!!
                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Hi Everyone,
                                                                                         
                                                                                        We have a golden danio that has basically in the last 24 hours gone from a beautiful healthy female to a well a horrid mess.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        This is what has happened.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Tank water is fine and so are the rest of the fish in it. She was acting eating and generally fine as well. Then about 4 hours after she only had one eye, but was still swimming around and eating now today she has only one eye and the other eye is bright red puffy and its seems the whole front of her body is swollen. We have attached 2 pics.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        We have put her in a nursing tank in the tank she was in because we have shut down the quarantine tank after the angel died, and we didn't want to stress her out to much by moving her anyway.
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Any ideas anyone??
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Sarah & Tony
                                                                                         
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1012 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Gravel cleaning
                                                                                        Mike,
                                                                                        What's wrong about the battery-powered gravel-cleaner? With the bag? I've an air-powered gravel-cleaner/vacuum, but thought it was'nt enough. My battery powered's much better, but I've never been completely successful keeping water away from the essentials, and after a while must buy another. There's something available for taking fuel by battery-powered siphon, but I've not had a flare of genius to adequately adapt them for aquarium use.
                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1013 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                        Subject: Re: Gloden Danio Problems!!!!!!!!!
                                                                                        This is by no means final, but it appears there's a clouding of the remaining eye, and besides the swelling, there's a lot of inflamation in the gill/s, nostrils, and eye area. Were there other fish in the tank?
                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1014 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                        Subject: MarineLand Kleen Sweep
                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                          Mike,
                                                                                             Here's a link to the Marineland air-powered gravel-thingy.
                                                                                                                             Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                 PS
                                                                                                                                                If you try a GOOGLE-search with the term........
                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                marineland kleen sweep
                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                    ...........................................you should come up with possibly more convenient sources.

                                                                                           http://www.amazonmoosey.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jpjmhpo0
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1015 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: unsubcribe
                                                                                           
                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                          Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 3:33 AM
                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: painted glass

                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Short Jonathan
                                                                                          <jonathan.short@c...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Oh my god that's absolutely awful.
                                                                                          > Is that just in the US I've never heard of that in the UK, I'm sure
                                                                                          there'd
                                                                                          > be an animal rights law against it.
                                                                                          > I can't beleive they actually do stuff like that.
                                                                                          > It's quite saddening isn't it? :o(
                                                                                          >

                                                                                          yep - mny LFS in london had them, They told me the color faded - I
                                                                                          didn't think a reputable shop would sell them..




                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1016 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Tony, No. Wait for a few more days and your cycle will be complete. You can
                                                                                          safely add fish them. Let the nitrite levels start to come down.

                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >Sent: 01 March 2004 22:49
                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >My tank has been running now for two weeks, roughly. About one week with
                                                                                          >plants.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >The plants are doing great.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I'm getting ready to add fish. Today I checked the nitrite and ammonia
                                                                                          >thinking I should do so BEFORE adding the fish.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >The ammonia was fine the nitrites were off the chart.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I think I remember somebody saying this would happen if I started with
                                                                                          >plants. I've added a little fish food to the tank to help create some
                                                                                          >waste.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Am I okay adding fish when the nitrites are so high?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Tony
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1017 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/1/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Gloden Danio Problems!!!!!!!!!

                                                                                          Ewww. Sorry to see her state Sarah L I had a kissing gourami in a similar state and could not survive. no medication also worked. Hope yours get sorted out.

                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: Sarah [mailto:sarah@...]
                                                                                          Sent: 01 March 2004 22:33
                                                                                          To: fish group 2
                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gloden Danio Problems!!!!!!!!!

                                                                                           

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Hi Everyone,

                                                                                           

                                                                                          We have a golden danio that has basically in the last 24 hours gone from a beautiful healthy female to a well a horrid mess.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          This is what has happened.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Tank water is fine and so are the rest of the fish in it. She was acting eating and generally fine as well. Then about 4 hours after she only had one eye, but was still swimming around and eating now today she has only one eye and the other eye is bright red puffy and its seems the whole front of her body is swollen. We have attached 2 pics.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          We have put her in a nursing tank in the tank she was in because we have shut down the quarantine tank after the angel died, and we didn't want to stress her out to much by moving her anyway.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Any ideas anyone??

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Regards

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Sarah & Tony

                                                                                           

                                                                                           

                                                                                           

                                                                                           



                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1018 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Gravel cleaning
                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                          j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                          > Mike,
                                                                                          > What's wrong about the battery-powered gravel-cleaner? With
                                                                                          the bag? I've an air-powered gravel-cleaner/vacuum, but thought it
                                                                                          was'nt enough. My battery powered's much better, but I've never been
                                                                                          completely successful keeping water away from the essentials, and
                                                                                          after a while must buy another. There's something available for
                                                                                          taking fuel by battery-powered siphon, but I've not had a flare of
                                                                                          genius to adequately adapt them for aquarium use.
                                                                                          > Joe Pascavage

                                                                                          That sounds like something that would work but I have never seen a
                                                                                          battery powered one either. All the stores around here have the self
                                                                                          start syphon and nothing else.
                                                                                          Thanks for the thought.

                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1019 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: MarineLand Kleen Sweep
                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph
                                                                                          Pascavage" <j.pascavage@c...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Mike,
                                                                                          > Here's a link to the Marineland air-powered gravel-thingy.
                                                                                          > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          PS
                                                                                          > If you try a
                                                                                          GOOGLE-search with the term........
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          marineland kleen sweep
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ..........
                                                                                          .................................you should come up with possibly
                                                                                          more convenient sources.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > http://www.amazonmoosey.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jpjmhpo0

                                                                                          Thanks, that is exactly whart I have been looking for. Do not
                                                                                          understand why it is not carried by the stores around here.

                                                                                          MIke
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1020 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: unsubcribe
                                                                                          Yeah, the new glofish made a big stink here, Petsmart and Petco refuse
                                                                                          to carry geneticly altered fish. But the don't mind selling the painted
                                                                                          glass fish. So let's see if I understand, they won't carry fish that
                                                                                          don't even know they're different, but sell, en mass, fish subjected to
                                                                                          cruelty. Also, from what I understand, there is a single factory in
                                                                                          Taiwan that produce the glass fish.

                                                                                          Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1021 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: unsubcribe
                                                                                          wow, what a ridiculous policy. that's insane. plus, in the end, the
                                                                                          glowfish will be good for the planet as the final goal is that they'll
                                                                                          glow in the presence of toxins and they're being used to help keep
                                                                                          natural waterways safe.
                                                                                          what a weird world.
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 2, 2004, at 11:24 AM, bucks_boogie@... wrote:

                                                                                          > Yeah, the new glofish made a big stink here, Petsmart and Petco refuse
                                                                                          > to carry geneticly altered fish.  But the don't mind selling the
                                                                                          > painted
                                                                                          > glass fish.  So let's see if I understand, they won't carry fish that
                                                                                          > don't even know they're different, but sell, en mass, fish subjected
                                                                                          > to
                                                                                          > cruelty.  Also, from what I understand, there is a single factory in
                                                                                          > Taiwan that produce the glass fish. 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          religion....
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1022 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: unsubcribe
                                                                                          They just picked a topic to make them look like responsible merchants.
                                                                                          Having managed both a Petsmart and a petco, I needed to get out of the
                                                                                          corporate environment. Some schmuck in San Diego drew the map of my
                                                                                          Petco and decided to put the iguana habitat 10 feet from the front door.
                                                                                          That's fine in San Diego, but not in Buffalo, NY. They just don't get
                                                                                          it.

                                                                                          Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1023 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: unsubcribe
                                                                                          yeah, they FINALLY changed that layout at mine here on long island. it
                                                                                          even works in small stores where the high pressure from the heat build
                                                                                          up keeps the cold out, but in a warehouse like petco, it's a disaster
                                                                                          waiting to happen.
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 2, 2004, at 11:49 AM, bucks_boogie@... wrote:

                                                                                          > They just picked a topic to make them look like responsible merchants.
                                                                                          > Having managed both a Petsmart and a petco, I needed to get out of the
                                                                                          > corporate environment.  Some schmuck in San Diego drew the map of my
                                                                                          > Petco and decided to put the iguana habitat 10 feet from the front
                                                                                          > door.
                                                                                          > That's fine in San Diego, but not in Buffalo, NY.  They just don't get
                                                                                          > it. 
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


                                                                                          http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                          don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1024 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Which one?
                                                                                          Which one should I get.  I'm not to worried about the difference in money, but would rather have a filter that is going to last forever, be the only one I need, and is the easiest to maintain.  I have an 80gal and hopefully soon another 45gal (if I can bribe my significant other a little more!)  Anyway the two that I'm looking at are both made by Eheim.  One is the 2215 model for $109.99 and the other is the Pro II 2026 for $164.99.  Does anyone have a preference, pros/cons, ups/downs on either one of these?  The best price I've found so far are at wally's aquarium (http://store.yahoo.com/wallysaquarium/filters.html)  Any thought would greatly be appreciated!
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Thank you,

                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1025 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          But will the levels come down without some form of ammonia or waste
                                                                                          material? I actually read somewhere on-line where in the absence of pure
                                                                                          ammonia somebody was suggesting adding urine...

                                                                                          Don't know what I think about that.

                                                                                          T

                                                                                          At 02:51 AM 3/2/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          >Tony, No. Wait for a few more days and your cycle will be complete. You can
                                                                                          >safely add fish thm. Let the nitrite levels start to come down.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Nim
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          > >From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          > >Sent: 01 March 2004 22:49
                                                                                          > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                          > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >My tank has been running now for two weeks, roughly. About one week with
                                                                                          > >plants.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >The plants are doing great.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >I'm getting ready to add fish. Today I checked the nitrite and ammonia
                                                                                          > >thinking I should do so BEFORE adding the fish.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >The ammonia was fine the nitrites were off the chart.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >I think I remember somebody saying this would happen if I started with
                                                                                          > >plants. I've added a little fish food to the tank to help create some
                                                                                          > >waste.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >Am I okay adding fish when the nitrites are so high?
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >Tony
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1026 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels
                                                                                          Yes they will.

                                                                                          The cycle goes

                                                                                          Ammonia->nitrite->nitrate

                                                                                          At the moment you’ve completed the first part of the cycle and you’re into the second. At the point when ammonia and nitrites are 0 and nitrates are being produced is when your tank is cycled.  You need to develop a whole new bacterial culture yet handle the last stage.

                                                                                          Nitrite levels off the charts will kill fish.

                                                                                          Tim



                                                                                          On 3/3/04 8:19 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                          But will the levels come down without some form of ammonia or waste
                                                                                          material? I actually read somewhere on-line where in the absence of pure
                                                                                          ammonia somebody was suggesting adding urine...

                                                                                          Don't know what I think about that.

                                                                                          T

                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1027 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Accept here's my confusion. It was nitrates I did the test for. And as there was never any ammonia in the tank (no fish) I have a problem believing the tank has cycled.

                                                                                          T

                                                                                          At 05:06 PM 3/2/2004, you wrote:

                                                                                          Yes they will.

                                                                                          The cycle goes

                                                                                          Ammonia->nitrite->nitrate

                                                                                          At the moment you�ve completed the first part of the cycle and you�re into the second. At the point when ammonia and nitrites are 0 and nitrates are being produced is when your tank is cycled.  You need to develop a whole new bacterial culture yet handle the last stage.

                                                                                          Nitrite levels off the charts will kill fish.

                                                                                          Tim



                                                                                          On 3/3/04 8:19 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                          But will the levels come down without some form of ammonia or waste
                                                                                          material? I actually read somewhere on-line where in the absence of pure
                                                                                          ammonia somebody was suggesting adding urine...

                                                                                          Don't know what I think about that.

                                                                                          T


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                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1028 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels On 3/3/04 9:07 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                          Accept here's my confusion. It was nitrates I did the test for. And as there was never any ammonia in the tank (no fish) I have a problem believing the tank has cycled.

                                                                                          T


                                                                                          --


                                                                                          Oh okay, well you’ve said nitrites all the way through (including the subject) but okay that’s actually meant to be nitrates then!.

                                                                                          There is always ammonia in your tank in small amounts anyway, chlorine removers leave ammonia, decaying plant material leaves ammonia etc. Also some locations have large amounts of ammonia and/or nitrates coming straight out of the tap!.. So maybe you should check your tap water as well to see what you were putting in the tank to begin with...

                                                                                          Did you test for ammonia and nitrites along the way or just nitrates?
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1029 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels

                                                                                          Nitrates? Now Nitrates are there in most tap water as it is. What was your Nitrate reading? Regarding cycling a tank without fish, the best way is to add little fishfood every 2-3 days with the filter running or just add the food to the filter directly. This will create enough Ammonia to start the cycle. Once ammonia comes, you will get Nitrites soon, and finally Nitrates will start to rise. Any decaying matter will generate ammonia, including broken leaves, dead plants, waste fishfood etc. adding Urine would be too much. A 125 gallon tank will not like a 5-6feet fish/man to cycle itself. Start slow, and the bacteria will gradually develop.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Also, check for nitrites in the tank. If there is no nitrite and no ammonia, you tank has either not cycled or has completed the cycle. Either case you can add fish. Add them slowly. Start with a couple of goldfish and monitor ammonia and nitrites. If they start to get off the charts, don’t add any more fish until nitrites start to come down. Once it starts to come down, you can add more fish gradually.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          Sent: 02 March 2004 22:08
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Accept here's my confusion. It was nitrates I did the test for. And as there was never any ammonia in the tank (no fish) I have a problem believing the tank has cycled.

                                                                                          T

                                                                                          At 05:06 PM 3/2/2004 , you wrote:


                                                                                          Yes they will.

                                                                                          The cycle goes

                                                                                          Ammonia->nitrite->nitrate

                                                                                          At the moment youve completed the first part of the cycle and youre into the second. At the point when ammonia and nitrites are 0 and nitrates are being produced is when your tank is cycled.  You need to develop a whole new bacterial culture yet handle the last stage.

                                                                                          Nitrite levels off the charts will kill fish.

                                                                                          Tim



                                                                                          On 3/3/04 8:19 AM , "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                          But will the levels come down without some form of ammonia or waste

                                                                                          material? I actually read somewhere on-line where in the absence of pure

                                                                                          ammonia somebody was suggesting adding urine...

                                                                                          Don't know what I think about that.

                                                                                          T


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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1030 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Which one?
                                                                                          Hi Edward,
                                                                                          I do not have either one but am planning on getting one soon. My
                                                                                          nieghbor who has been keeping fish for a long time tells me that I
                                                                                          should go with an Eheim. He says that they are the best. I am going
                                                                                          to trust him on this and go with an Eheim myself.

                                                                                          Mike


                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Sola"
                                                                                          <esola@k...> wrote:
                                                                                          > Which one should I get. I'm not to worried about the difference in
                                                                                          money, but would rather have a filter that is going to last forever,
                                                                                          be the only one I need, and is the easiest to maintain. I have an
                                                                                          80gal and hopefully soon another 45gal (if I can bribe my significant
                                                                                          other a little more!) Anyway the two that I'm looking at are both
                                                                                          made by Eheim. One is the 2215 model for $109.99 and the other is
                                                                                          the Pro II 2026 for $164.99. Does anyone have a preference,
                                                                                          pros/cons, ups/downs on either one of these? The best price I've
                                                                                          found so far are at wally's aquarium
                                                                                          (http://store.yahoo.com/wallysaquarium/filters.html) Any thought
                                                                                          would greatly be appreciated!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Thank you,
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Edward
                                                                                          > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1031 From: Michael Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: heater back up
                                                                                          I think you might want to tie getting a camping stove and heat water
                                                                                          with it and put the hot water in a few bottles then put them in your
                                                                                          tank this will really slow the rate that the water cools.
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1032 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: heater back up
                                                                                          i know this against everything you're taught, but i never monitor the
                                                                                          temp of the new water going into my tank. it's 55 gallons and i rarely
                                                                                          change more than 15 or 20 percent though even when i do a 30 percent
                                                                                          change, i've watched the thermometer after i put cool water in and the
                                                                                          temperature rarely dips more than one or two degrees. i think most
                                                                                          people would be ok just putting reasonably warm water in the tank...
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 2, 2004, at 6:22 PM, Michael wrote:

                                                                                          > I think you might want to tie getting a camping stove and heat water
                                                                                          > with it and put the hot water in a few bottles then put them in your
                                                                                          > tank this will really slow the rate that the water cools.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          religion....
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1033 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          I tested for Ammonia and Nitrates. The ammonia came out fine, zero... the nitrates were what came out off the charts.

                                                                                          I have not tested for nitrites nor do I have the resources to do this...

                                                                                          Tony




                                                                                          At 05:13 PM 3/2/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          On 3/3/04 9:07 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                          Accept here's my confusion. It was nitrates I did the test for. And as there was never any ammonia in the tank (no fish) I have a problem believing the tank has cycled.

                                                                                          T


                                                                                          --


                                                                                          Oh okay, well you�ve said nitrites all the way through (including the subject) but okay that�s actually meant to be nitrates then!.

                                                                                          There is always ammonia in your tank in small amounts anyway, chlorine removers leave ammonia, decaying plant material leaves ammonia etc. Also some locations have large amounts of ammonia and/or nitrates coming straight out of the tap!.. So maybe you should check your tap water as well to see what you were putting in the tank to begin with...

                                                                                          Did you test for ammonia and nitrites along the way or just nitrates?


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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1034 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Nim...

                                                                                          I have not tested for nitrites as I don't have the resources for that. The ammonia reading was nil and the NitRATE reading was literally off the chart. The color was a deeper color than anything on the chart.

                                                                                          Again, somebody, I don't remember who, said this would happen if I started with just plants. What I don't know is what to do about it now.

                                                                                          I've added some food, but will continue to do so.

                                                                                          T




                                                                                          At 06:17 PM 3/2/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          Nitrates? Now Nitrates are there in most tap water as it is. What was your Nitrate reading? Regarding cycling a tank without fish, the best way is to add little fishfood every 2-3 days with the filter running or just add the food to the filter directly. This will create enough Ammonia to start the cycle. Once ammonia comes, you will get Nitrites soon, and finally Nitrates will start to rise. Any decaying matter will generate ammonia, including broken leaves, dead plants, waste fishfood etc. adding Urine would be too much. A 125 gallon tank will not like a 5-6feet fish/man to cycle itself. Start slow, and the bacteria will gradually develop.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Also, check for nitrites in the tank. If there is no nitrite and no ammonia, you tank has either not cycled or has completed the cycle. Either case you can add fish. Add them slowly. Start with a couple of goldfish and monitor ammonia and nitrites. If they start to get off the charts, don�t add any more fish until nitrites start to come down. Once it starts to come down, you can add more fish gradually.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Nim
                                                                                           

                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          Sent: 02 March 2004 22:08
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Accept here's my confusion. It was nitrates I did the test for. And as there was never any ammonia in the tank (no fish) I have a problem believing the tank has cycled.

                                                                                          T

                                                                                          At 05:06 PM 3/2/2004, you wrote:


                                                                                          Yes they will.

                                                                                          The cycle goes

                                                                                          Ammonia->nitrite->nitrate

                                                                                          At the moment youve completed the first part of the cycle and youre into the second. At the point when ammonia and nitrites are 0 and nitrates are being produced is when your tank is cycled.  You need to develop a whole new bacterial culture yet handle the last stage.

                                                                                          Nitrite levels off the charts will kill fish.

                                                                                          Tim



                                                                                          On 3/3/04 8:19 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                          But will the levels come down without some form of ammonia or waste
                                                                                          material? I actually read somewhere on-line where in the absence of pure
                                                                                          ammonia somebody was suggesting adding urine...
                                                                                          Don't know what I think about that.
                                                                                          T

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                                                                                          ADVERTISEMENT
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1035 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          for nitrates the best thing to do is a water change and get live
                                                                                          plants. live plants use nitrates as fertilizer and they look fantastic.
                                                                                          they seem to calm my fish too, i guess they feel safer.
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 2, 2004, at 9:11 PM, Tony Bittick wrote:

                                                                                          > I tested for Ammonia and Nitrates. The ammonia came out fine, zero...
                                                                                          > the nitrates were what came out off the charts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I have not tested for nitrites nor do I have the resources to do
                                                                                          > this...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tony
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > At 05:13 PM 3/2/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > On 3/3/04 9:07 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Accept here's my confusion. It was nitrates I did the test for. And as
                                                                                          > there was never any ammonia in the tank (no fish) I have a problem
                                                                                          > believing the tank has cycled.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > T
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > --
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Oh okay, well you’ve said nitrites all the way through (including the
                                                                                          > subject) but okay that’s actually meant to be nitrates then!.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > There is always ammonia in your tank in small amounts anyway, chlorine
                                                                                          > removers leave ammonia, decaying plant material leaves ammonia etc.
                                                                                          > Also some locations have large amounts of ammonia and/or nitrates
                                                                                          > coming straight out of the tap!.. So maybe you should check your tap
                                                                                          > water as well to see what you were putting in the tank to begin
                                                                                          > with...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Did you test for ammonia and nitrites along the way or just nitrates?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                          > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                          > <image.tiff>Click Here
                                                                                          > <l.gif>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          > • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                          > •  
                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > •  
                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


                                                                                          http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                          don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1036 From: Michael Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: heater back up
                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                          <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                          > i know this against everything you're taught, but i never monitor
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > temp of the new water going into my tank. it's 55 gallons and i
                                                                                          rarely
                                                                                          > change more than 15 or 20 percent though even when i do a 30
                                                                                          percent
                                                                                          > change, i've watched the thermometer after i put cool water in and
                                                                                          the
                                                                                          > temperature rarely dips more than one or two degrees. i think most
                                                                                          > people would be ok just putting reasonably warm water in the
                                                                                          tank...
                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                          > On Mar 2, 2004, at 6:22 PM, Michael wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          The thing with adding warm water is that it would just cool off.
                                                                                          And you would have to keep adding more and more. With the bottle
                                                                                          you wouldn't have to. Just keep filling the bottle. That way you
                                                                                          don't have to keep adding and then taking out water from the tank.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          I think you might want to tie getting a camping stove and heat water
                                                                                          > > with it and put the hot water in a few bottles then put them in
                                                                                          your
                                                                                          > > tank this will really slow the rate that the water cools.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                          > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                          > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                          Terms of
                                                                                          > > Service.
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          > religion....
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1037 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Tony, a way that you can test for Nitrites is to try and find Jungle Labs Quick Dip 5-n-1 Test Strips. They are very easy to use, and although they do not give you precise measurements as some aquarium keepers mention, they will test (in both FRESH and SALTWATER aquariums) for the following water conditions :
                                                                                          1 - pH level
                                                                                          2 - total alkilinity
                                                                                          3 - hardness
                                                                                          4 - Nitrite
                                                                                          5 - Nitrate 
                                                                                           
                                                                                          This, combined with Jungle Labs Quick Dip Ammonia Test Strip, pretty much covers your basic water conditions. I use both these methods to test my aquarium water. These strips are readily available (I bought mine from the local WalMart, and I know that PetSmart carries them as well) and affordable.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          You dip the strip into the water, and following the time recommended on the package, you compare the color of the pads with the colors on the bottle. (however, this is a job that my husband can not do, as he is color blind! So I'm the one who is responsible for checking our water quality *grin*)
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                           
                                                                                          browse my sig tags for request and extras
                                                                                          (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                          check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                           
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                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Date: 03/02/04 21:11:33
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels
                                                                                           
                                                                                          I tested for Ammonia and Nitrates. The ammonia came out fine, zero... the nitrates were what came out off the charts.

                                                                                          I have not tested for nitrites nor do I have the resources to do this...
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1038 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/2/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: heater back up
                                                                                          I know my Corydoras' breed at slight temperature drops because it mimics spring thaws in their genetic history, which was their breeding period. Keeping temperature regulated here in Pennsylvania, even with an aquarium heater is impossible, but besides frequent breeding, I don't think those temperature drops have caused problems. As far as regulating tap water temperature while being drawn, I find it's an interesting way to focus, probably because of articles read about gradually increasing or decreasing temperature if necessary, and osmological sensitivities that are far to complex to my understanding. If in my inability to understand the physiology of fish evolution I can do something simple to keep my mind on a track, hence take less risk in causing health problems, and like it, I feel a little better about myself.
                                                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1039 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels

                                                                                          Tony,

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Nitrates can be brought down by only 3 methods: Plants, Water changes, Nitrate filters/resins. Plants are the best option and can consume more nitrates then the fish produce. Water change is the most widely used method as this dilutes nitrates. Nitrate filters are expensive but they work, resins are slow and sometimes not as effective as hoped for.

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Juwel has launched a Nitrate removal media that I am yet to try, but maybe you could.

                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          Sent: 03 March 2004 02:16
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels

                                                                                           

                                                                                          Nim...

                                                                                          I have not tested for nitrites as I don't have the resources for that. The ammonia reading was nil and the NitRATE reading was literally off the chart. The color was a deeper color than anything on the chart.

                                                                                          Again, somebody, I don't remember who, said this would happen if I started with just plants. What I don't know is what to do about it now.

                                                                                          I've added some food, but will continue to do so.

                                                                                          T




                                                                                          At 06:17 PM 3/2/2004 , you wrote:

                                                                                          Nitrates? Now Nitrates are there in most tap water as it is. What was your Nitrate reading? Regarding cycling a tank without fish, the best way is to add little fishfood every 2-3 days with the filter running or just add the food to the filter directly. This will create enough Ammonia to start the cycle. Once ammonia comes, you will get Nitrites soon, and finally Nitrates will start to rise. Any decaying matter will generate ammonia, including broken leaves, dead plants, waste fishfood etc. adding Urine would be too much. A 125 gallon tank will not like a 5-6feet fish/man to cycle itself. Start slow, and the bacteria will gradually develop.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Also, check for nitrites in the tank. If there is no nitrite and no ammonia, you tank has either not cycled or has completed the cycle. Either case you can add fish. Add them slowly. Start with a couple of goldfish and monitor ammonia and nitrites. If they start to get off the charts, dont add any more fish until nitrites start to come down. Once it starts to come down, you can add more fish gradually.
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Nim
                                                                                           


                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          Sent: 02 March 2004 22:08
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels
                                                                                           
                                                                                          Accept here's my confusion. It was nitrates I did the test for. And as there was never any ammonia in the tank (no fish) I have a problem believing the tank has cycled.

                                                                                          T

                                                                                          At 05:06 PM 3/2/2004, you wrote:


                                                                                          Yes they will.

                                                                                          The cycle goes

                                                                                          Ammonia->nitrite->nitrate

                                                                                          At the moment youve completed the first part of the cycle and youre into the second. At the point when ammonia and nitrites are 0 and nitrates are being produced is when your tank is cycled.  You need to develop a whole new bacterial culture yet handle the last stage.

                                                                                          Nitrite levels off the charts will kill fish.

                                                                                          Tim



                                                                                          On 3/3/04 8:19 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                          But will the levels come down without some form of ammonia or waste
                                                                                          material? I actually read somewhere on-line where in the absence of pure
                                                                                          ammonia somebody was suggesting adding urine...
                                                                                          Don't know what I think about that.
                                                                                          T

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                                                                                          ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                          Click HereClick Here
                                                                                          []


                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                           


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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1040 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Well then I'm REALLY confused.

                                                                                          I don't know why the nitrates in this water would be so high. I've got
                                                                                          several very nice and seemingly very healthy plants growing in this tank and
                                                                                          NO fish. The plants have been there for going on two weeks now and the
                                                                                          growth is obvious. The bannana plants have grown leaves, the other plants
                                                                                          have visibly grown...

                                                                                          Going to have to invovle the LFS I guess. I should note that I live near a
                                                                                          LFS that has been in our area for over 20 years and has a stellar rep.

                                                                                          Tony




                                                                                          Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                          > Tony,
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nitrates can be brought down by only 3 methods: Plants, Water changes,
                                                                                          > Nitrate filters/resins. Plants are the best option and can consume more
                                                                                          > nitrates then the fish produce. Water change is the most widely used method
                                                                                          > as this dilutes nitrates. Nitrate filters are expensive but they work,
                                                                                          > resins are slow and sometimes not as effective as hoped for.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Juwel has launched a Nitrate removal media that I am yet to try, but maybe
                                                                                          > you could.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nim
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          > Sent: 03 March 2004 02:16
                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nim...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I have not tested for nitrites as I don't have the resources for that. The
                                                                                          > ammonia reading was nil and the NitRATE reading was literally off the chart.
                                                                                          > The color was a deeper color than anything on the chart.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Again, somebody, I don't remember who, said this would happen if I started
                                                                                          > with just plants. What I don't know is what to do about it now.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I've added some food, but will continue to do so.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > T
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > At 06:17 PM 3/2/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nitrates? Now Nitrates are there in most tap water as it is. What was your
                                                                                          > Nitrate reading? Regarding cycling a tank without fish, the best way is to
                                                                                          > add little fishfood every 2-3 days with the filter running or just add the
                                                                                          > food to the filter directly. This will create enough Ammonia to start the
                                                                                          > cycle. Once ammonia comes, you will get Nitrites soon, and finally Nitrates
                                                                                          > will start to rise. Any decaying matter will generate ammonia, including
                                                                                          > broken leaves, dead plants, waste fishfood etc. adding Urine would be too
                                                                                          > much. A 125 gallon tank will not like a 5-6feet fish/man to cycle itself.
                                                                                          > Start slow, and the bacteria will gradually develop.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Also, check for nitrites in the tank. If there is no nitrite and no ammonia,
                                                                                          > you tank has either not cycled or has completed the cycle. Either case you
                                                                                          > can add fish. Add them slowly. Start with a couple of goldfish and monitor
                                                                                          > ammonia and nitrites. If they start to get off the charts, dont add any
                                                                                          > more fish until nitrites start to come down. Once it starts to come down,
                                                                                          > you can add more fish gradually.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nim
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          > Sent: 02 March 2004 22:08
                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Accept here's my confusion. It was nitrates I did the test for. And as there
                                                                                          > was never any ammonia in the tank (no fish) I have a problem believing the
                                                                                          > tank has cycled.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > T
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > At 05:06 PM 3/2/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yes they will.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The cycle goes
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Ammonia->nitrite->nitrate
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > At the moment youve completed the first part of the cycle and youre into the
                                                                                          > second. At the point when ammonia and nitrites are 0 and nitrates are being
                                                                                          > produced is when your tank is cycled. You need to develop a whole new
                                                                                          > bacterial culture yet handle the last stage.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nitrite levels off the charts will kill fish.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tim
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > On 3/3/04 8:19 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                          > But will the levels come down without some form of ammonia or waste
                                                                                          > material? I actually read somewhere on-line where in the absence of pure
                                                                                          > ammonia somebody was suggesting adding urine...
                                                                                          > Don't know what I think about that.
                                                                                          > T
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1041 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check these out.

                                                                                          Tony

                                                                                          Erin Vankouwenberg writes:

                                                                                          > Tony, a way that you can test for Nitrites is to try and find Jungle Labs
                                                                                          > Quick Dip 5-n-1 Test Strips. They are very easy to use, and although they do
                                                                                          > not give you precise measurements as some aquarium keepers mention, they
                                                                                          > will test (in both FRESH and SALTWATER aquariums) for the following water
                                                                                          > conditions :
                                                                                          > 1 - pH level
                                                                                          > 2 - total alkilinity
                                                                                          > 3 - hardness
                                                                                          > 4 - Nitrite
                                                                                          > 5 - Nitrate
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > This, combined with Jungle Labs Quick Dip Ammonia Test Strip, pretty much
                                                                                          > covers your basic water conditions. I use both these methods to test my
                                                                                          > aquarium water. These strips are readily available (I bought mine from the
                                                                                          > local WalMart, and I know that PetSmart carries them as well) and affordable
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > You dip the strip into the water, and following the time recommended on the
                                                                                          > package, you compare the color of the pads with the colors on the bottle.
                                                                                          > (however, this is a job that my husband can not do, as he is color blind! So
                                                                                          > I'm the one who is responsible for checking our water quality *grin*)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Erin
                                                                                          > CelticParents
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > browse my sig tags for request and extras
                                                                                          > (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                          > http://www.celticparents.com/sigtags.html
                                                                                          > check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
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                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Date: 03/02/04 21:11:33
                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] nitrite levels
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I tested for Ammonia and Nitrates. The ammonia came out fine, zero... the
                                                                                          > nitrates were what came out off the charts.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I have not tested for nitrites nor do I have the resources to do this...
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1042 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          don't forget that in many areas the tap water has very high levels of
                                                                                          nitrates!
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 3, 2004, at 7:00 AM, tbittick wrote:

                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I don't know why the nitrates in this water would be so high. I've got
                                                                                          > several very nice and seemingly very healthy plants growing in this
                                                                                          > tank and
                                                                                          > NO fish. The plants have been there for going on two weeks now and the
                                                                                          > growth is obvious. The bannana plants have grown leaves, the other
                                                                                          > plants
                                                                                          > have visibly grown...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Going to have to invovle the LFS I guess. I should note that I live
                                                                                          > near a
                                                                                          > LFS that has been in our area for over 20 years and has a stellar rep.
                                                                                          http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          religion....
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1043 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Okay. I've thought about that. But what does it mean for the fish and what
                                                                                          do I do about it.

                                                                                          I read online today that nitrates are relatively harmless, but I seem to be
                                                                                          hearing something else here.

                                                                                          Tony


                                                                                          amalthea23 writes:

                                                                                          > don't forget that in many areas the tap water has very high levels of
                                                                                          > nitrates!
                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                          > On Mar 3, 2004, at 7:00 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> I don't know why the nitrates in this water would be so high. I've got
                                                                                          >> several very nice and seemingly very healthy plants growing in this
                                                                                          >> tank and
                                                                                          >> NO fish. The plants have been there for going on two weeks now and the
                                                                                          >> growth is obvious. The bannana plants have grown leaves, the other
                                                                                          >> plants
                                                                                          >> have visibly grown...
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Going to have to invovle the LFS I guess. I should note that I live
                                                                                          >> near a
                                                                                          >> LFS that has been in our area for over 20 years and has a stellar rep.
                                                                                          > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          > religion....
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1044 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          i think the key to that is "relatively." out of the three major toxins
                                                                                          you have have in the water, nitrates are the most harmless, and if your
                                                                                          local tap water is high in nitrates (test it with a control sample to
                                                                                          find out) your only options are more plants, additives, or bottled
                                                                                          water. you said that you have plants, have you checked in the gravel
                                                                                          and up the stems for rotting leaves? any type of organic rotting
                                                                                          material, including dead plant matter, can cause spikes, so make sure
                                                                                          there are no old leaves floating around or that any of the plants
                                                                                          haven't rotted under the substrate...
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 3, 2004, at 11:28 AM, tbittick wrote:

                                                                                          > Okay. I've thought about that. But what does it mean for the fish and
                                                                                          > what
                                                                                          > do I do about it.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I read online today that nitrates are relatively harmless, but I seem
                                                                                          > to be
                                                                                          > hearing something else here.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tony
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > > don't forget that in many areas the tap water has very high levels
                                                                                          > of
                                                                                          > > nitrates!
                                                                                          > > amalthea
                                                                                          > > On Mar 3, 2004, at 7:00 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >>
                                                                                          > >>  I don't know why the nitrates in this water would be so high.
                                                                                          > I've got
                                                                                          > >>  several very nice and seemingly very healthy plants growing in
                                                                                          > this
                                                                                          > >> tank and
                                                                                          > >>  NO fish. The plants have been there for going on two weeks now
                                                                                          > and the
                                                                                          > >>  growth is obvious. The bannana plants have grown leaves, the other
                                                                                          > >> plants
                                                                                          > >>  have visibly grown...
                                                                                          > >>
                                                                                          > >>  Going to have to invovle the LFS I guess. I should note that I
                                                                                          > live
                                                                                          > >> near a
                                                                                          > >>  LFS that has been in our area for over 20 years and has a stellar
                                                                                          > rep.
                                                                                          > > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          > > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          > > religion....
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > 
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > > 
                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                          > >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >


                                                                                          http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                          don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1045 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Hhhhmmmm.... rotting plants eh... well... When I set up the tank er some
                                                                                          suggestions here I put down a light layer of peat moss underneath a 2" layer
                                                                                          of gravel.

                                                                                          Could THIS be causing the problem? LFS says it WOULD be dangerous for the
                                                                                          fish and suggested a 25% water change. Probably not a bad idea, plus a good
                                                                                          idea to prepare me before the fish come.

                                                                                          I'll check the tap water and see. I always leave my tap water sitting for
                                                                                          several days before adding it, so we'll see.


                                                                                          I guess I could test both the tap and the stuff that's been sittnig around.

                                                                                          T

                                                                                          amalthea23 writes:

                                                                                          > i think the key to that is "relatively." out of the three major toxins
                                                                                          > you have have in the water, nitrates are the most harmless, and if your
                                                                                          > local tap water is high in nitrates (test it with a control sample to
                                                                                          > find out) your only options are more plants, additives, or bottled
                                                                                          > water. you said that you have plants, have you checked in the gravel
                                                                                          > and up the stems for rotting leaves? any type of organic rotting
                                                                                          > material, including dead plant matter, can cause spikes, so make sure
                                                                                          > there are no old leaves floating around or that any of the plants
                                                                                          > haven't rotted under the substrate...
                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                          > On Mar 3, 2004, at 11:28 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >> Okay. I've thought about that. But what does it mean for the fish and
                                                                                          >> what
                                                                                          >> do I do about it.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> I read online today that nitrates are relatively harmless, but I seem
                                                                                          >> to be
                                                                                          >> hearing something else here.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Tony
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> > don't forget that in many areas the tap water has very high levels
                                                                                          >> of
                                                                                          >> > nitrates!
                                                                                          >> > amalthea
                                                                                          >> > On Mar 3, 2004, at 7:00 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >>
                                                                                          >> >> I don't know why the nitrates in this water would be so high.
                                                                                          >> I've got
                                                                                          >> >> several very nice and seemingly very healthy plants growing in
                                                                                          >> this
                                                                                          >> >> tank and
                                                                                          >> >> NO fish. The plants have been there for going on two weeks now
                                                                                          >> and the
                                                                                          >> >> growth is obvious. The bannana plants have grown leaves, the other
                                                                                          >> >> plants
                                                                                          >> >> have visibly grown...
                                                                                          >> >>
                                                                                          >> >> Going to have to invovle the LFS I guess. I should note that I
                                                                                          >> live
                                                                                          >> >> near a
                                                                                          >> >> LFS that has been in our area for over 20 years and has a stellar
                                                                                          >> rep.
                                                                                          >> > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          >> > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          >> > religion....
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          >> Service.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                          > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1046 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          yup, if that peat is all dead and rotting the nitrate spike might get
                                                                                          huge because there's first so much ammonia, then so many nitrites. i'd
                                                                                          get that out of there, if you need peat for water conditions, you can
                                                                                          easily add it to the filter later...
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 3, 2004, at 11:53 AM, tbittick wrote:

                                                                                          > Hhhhmmmm.... rotting plants eh... well... When I set up the tank er
                                                                                          > some
                                                                                          > suggestions here I put down a light layer of peat moss underneath a
                                                                                          > 2" layer
                                                                                          > of gravel.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Could THIS be causing the problem? LFS says it WOULD be dangerous for
                                                                                          > the
                                                                                          > fish and suggested a 25% water change. Probably not a bad idea, plus
                                                                                          > a good
                                                                                          > idea to prepare me before the fish come.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I'll check the tap water and see. I always leave my tap water sitting
                                                                                          > for
                                                                                          > several days before adding it, so we'll see.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I guess I could test both the tap and the stuff that's been sittnig
                                                                                          > around.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          religion....
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1047 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          <laughing>

                                                                                          Well... the only thing I know for sure is THAT'S not going to happen. I'd
                                                                                          read in a couple of different places about using peat below the substrate
                                                                                          and then it was suggested again here so I have some confidence in that
                                                                                          process.

                                                                                          I'm also thrilled with the result of my plants.

                                                                                          I think the trick is going to come down to water changes.

                                                                                          I'm going to get some equipment for that process tonight and get started
                                                                                          there. I'm also going to test the water I have standing as well.





                                                                                          amalthea23 writes:

                                                                                          > yup, if that peat is all dead and rotting the nitrate spike might get
                                                                                          > huge because there's first so much ammonia, then so many nitrites. i'd
                                                                                          > get that out of there, if you need peat for water conditions, you can
                                                                                          > easily add it to the filter later...
                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                          > On Mar 3, 2004, at 11:53 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >> Hhhhmmmm.... rotting plants eh... well... When I set up the tank er
                                                                                          >> some
                                                                                          >> suggestions here I put down a light layer of peat moss underneath a
                                                                                          >> 2" layer
                                                                                          >> of gravel.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Could THIS be causing the problem? LFS says it WOULD be dangerous for
                                                                                          >> the
                                                                                          >> fish and suggested a 25% water change. Probably not a bad idea, plus
                                                                                          >> a good
                                                                                          >> idea to prepare me before the fish come.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> I'll check the tap water and see. I always leave my tap water sitting
                                                                                          >> for
                                                                                          >> several days before adding it, so we'll see.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> I guess I could test both the tap and the stuff that's been sittnig
                                                                                          >> around.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          > religion....
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1048 From: tbittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: water changes
                                                                                          I've asked some questions in the past regarding how people do water changes.
                                                                                          I'm looking for some specifics now.

                                                                                          I think I'm going to try to focus on 10% weekly changes. That means I have
                                                                                          less water to keep on hand and to get rid of. I'll probably buy a small drum
                                                                                          or plastic containter of some sort to hold the water, or I may even just
                                                                                          stick with milk jugs.

                                                                                          I understand I'll need some type of tool to drain the water, preferably
                                                                                          something that will "vacuum" the gravel, right. The ones I've seen work as a
                                                                                          syphon, you suck on one end until the flow starts, right?

                                                                                          But what if I keep my water in a drum? How do I get it from in the drum
                                                                                          (below the tank) up and into the tank? I've heard something about pumps but
                                                                                          would appreciate some specific examples.

                                                                                          Tony
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1049 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: water changes
                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] water changes
                                                                                          work as a
                                                                                          syphon, you suck on one end until the flow starts, right?

                                                                                          But what if I keep my water in a drum? How do I get it from in the drum
                                                                                          (below the tank) up and into the tank? I've heard something about pumps but
                                                                                          would appreciate some specific examples.

                                                                                          Tony


                                                                                          You could use a submersible powerhead to get the water from the drum to the tank, you would want a pretty strong one though to lift the water up a metre or so.....


                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1050 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: once and for all
                                                                                          Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that are
                                                                                          off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...

                                                                                          So. Having said all that what does it mean...

                                                                                          It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The nitrites
                                                                                          are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in niTRATEs...

                                                                                          At what point can I add fish?

                                                                                          I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES, (which
                                                                                          it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.

                                                                                          So that much I know.

                                                                                          I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?

                                                                                          The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would bring the
                                                                                          NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete which
                                                                                          they said would take about a month.

                                                                                          Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it would be.

                                                                                          Advice?

                                                                                          Tony
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1051 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: water change
                                                                                          Turns out I don't need to do a water change quite yet, but I have some
                                                                                          success today.

                                                                                          I was able to get one of those vacuum hoses to clean out the tank and it
                                                                                          has a self starting syphon mechanism. I also bought two 18 gallon black
                                                                                          plastic tubs. One will hold water to go into the tank for water changes and
                                                                                          the other will hold the water that comes out of the tank.

                                                                                          I feel pretty confident about this part of it now.

                                                                                          Tony
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1052 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all
                                                                                          Yep you’re at the top of the cycle, if ammonia is 0 and nitrites are high. I personally would just wait as most bacterial additives seem to be a matter of luck than anything else.

                                                                                          Wait for your colony to build up and start processing nitrites (it will), don’t do a water change, don’t add fish. Just wait.
                                                                                          When nitrites are 0 and nitrates are up, you can do a water change to remove nitrates and also plant away as plants use nitrates as fertilizer. Then your tank is cycled.

                                                                                          I would definitely get yourself a nitrate test kit.

                                                                                          Also taking a whole extra month at this point it possible but unlikely, it’s probably only a week or so. (although some monthly waits to happen to some people)...

                                                                                          You could throw in some gravel from an established tank to kickstart the process as well.

                                                                                          I’d just test all 3 every few days until you get 0 ammonia , 0 nitrites , >0 nitrates.

                                                                                          Tim
                                                                                           
                                                                                          On 4/3/04 10:00 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                          Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that are
                                                                                          off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...

                                                                                          So. Having said all that what does it mean...

                                                                                          It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The nitrites
                                                                                          are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in niTRATEs...

                                                                                          At what point can I add fish?

                                                                                          I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES, (which
                                                                                          it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.

                                                                                          So that much I know.

                                                                                          I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?

                                                                                          The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would bring the
                                                                                          NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete which
                                                                                          they said would take about a month.

                                                                                          Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it would be.

                                                                                          Advice?

                                                                                          Tony

                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1053 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all I've been really fighting a high nitrite also.  Obviously, yours is cycling and not feeding too much to the fish.  I don't know about the live plants, but I've got my level down pretty good by adding some aquarium salt to it as well as some of the Stress Zyme which puts the bacteria in the water to break down the nitrites.

                                                                                          Good luck
                                                                                          Mary

                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick <tbittick@...>
                                                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:00:21 -0500
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all


                                                                                          Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that are
                                                                                          off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...

                                                                                          So. Having said all that what does it mean...

                                                                                          It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The nitrites
                                                                                          are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in niTRATEs...

                                                                                          At what point can I add fish?

                                                                                          I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES, (which
                                                                                          it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.

                                                                                          So that much I know.

                                                                                          I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?

                                                                                          The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would bring the
                                                                                          NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete which
                                                                                          they said would take about a month.

                                                                                          Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it would be.

                                                                                          Advice?

                                                                                          Tony





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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1054 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          Thanks Tim...

                                                                                          I've already got plants, a goodly population of them, and more on the way.

                                                                                          And as the test shows I've DEFINITELY got NITRITES...

                                                                                          And yes, I guess getting a nitrate test kit is going to be important.

                                                                                          I'll keep the group posted.

                                                                                          Tony




                                                                                          AT 06:15 PM 3/3/2004 Tim Walker offered the following words:

                                                                                          Yep you�re at the top of the cycle, if ammonia is 0 and nitrites are high. I personally would just wait as most bacterial additives seem to be a matter of luck than anything else.

                                                                                          Wait for your colony to build up and start processing nitrites (it will), don�t do a water change, don�t add fish. Just wait.
                                                                                          When nitrites are 0 and nitrates are up, you can do a water change to remove nitrates and also plant away as plants use nitrates as fertilizer. Then your tank is cycled.

                                                                                          I would definitely get yourself a nitrate test kit.

                                                                                          Also taking a whole extra month at this point it possible but unlikely, it�s probably only a week or so. (although some monthly waits to happen to some people)...

                                                                                          You could throw in some gravel from an established tank to kickstart the process as well.

                                                                                          I�d just test all 3 every few days until you get 0 ammonia , 0 nitrites , >0 nitrates.

                                                                                          Tim
                                                                                           
                                                                                          On 4/3/04 10:00 AM, "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...> wrote:

                                                                                          Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that are
                                                                                          off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...

                                                                                          So. Having said all that what does it mean...

                                                                                          It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The nitrites
                                                                                          are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in niTRATEs...

                                                                                          At what point can I add fish?

                                                                                          I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES, (which
                                                                                          it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.

                                                                                          So that much I know.

                                                                                          I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?

                                                                                          The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would bring the
                                                                                          NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete which
                                                                                          they said would take about a month.

                                                                                          Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it would be.

                                                                                          Advice?

                                                                                          Tony


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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1055 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          If you REALLY want to do the right thing, try to understand the advice you've already been given, and stifle your impulses for immediate gratification, 'cuz 'today is the first day of the rest of your life' (and your future fishes), 'the longest journey begins with a single step', something about Robert Burns a'la '...the giftie gie us tuh see ourselves as ithers see us', and 'no matter where you go, there you are!'
                                                                                          Jope Pascavage
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1056 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          When you mentioned feeding the tank without fish, did you mean plant
                                                                                          food? If you're adding fish food, that'll add to the nitrates as it's
                                                                                          broken down. Water changes should be done or tr adding AmQuel Plus. At
                                                                                          least it'll detoxify ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

                                                                                          Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1057 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Nitrates are harmless to fish that are used to it. Adding new fish to a
                                                                                          system laden with nitrates that have come from a system without it will
                                                                                          become stress and get sick.

                                                                                          Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1058 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          Mary... there AREN'T any fish... I've been waiting to add them. Looks Like I'll be waiting a little longer. <smile>

                                                                                          Tony


                                                                                          At 06:38 PM 3/3/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          I've been really fighting a high nitrite also.  Obviously, yours is cycling and not feeding too much to the fish.  I don't know about the live plants, but I've got my level down pretty good by adding some aquarium salt to it as well as some of the Stress Zyme which puts the bacteria in the water to break down the nitrites.

                                                                                          Good luck
                                                                                          Mary

                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick <tbittick@...>
                                                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:00:21 -0500
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all


                                                                                          Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that are
                                                                                          off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...

                                                                                          So. Having said all that what does it mean...

                                                                                          It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The nitrites
                                                                                          are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in niTRATEs...

                                                                                          At what point can I add fish?

                                                                                          I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES, (which
                                                                                          it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.

                                                                                          So that much I know.

                                                                                          I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?

                                                                                          The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would bring the
                                                                                          NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete which
                                                                                          they said would take about a month.

                                                                                          Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it would be.

                                                                                          Advice?

                                                                                          Tony





                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links




                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1059 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          Okay, Okay. I get it. <laughing> Actually it's not about the instant
                                                                                          gratification. If it was I'd have put fish in after the first 24 hours.
                                                                                          It's really all been about trying to get an understanding of what's going
                                                                                          on. I understand the cycling process, how it happens and why.

                                                                                          Two things I didn't know 1) As of my first post I was unsure as to whether
                                                                                          I had tested for and found Nitrates or Nitrites. As stated earlier this
                                                                                          evening I have confirmed that I have found Nitrites, lots of them
                                                                                          apparently. The second thing was having not put any fish in the tank I was
                                                                                          unsure as to how the tank could have accumulated any ammonia. I'm up for
                                                                                          input on this. So far I'm thinking it was either the fish food I put in the
                                                                                          tank (which I only did twice, and sparingly) or perhaps even the peat moss
                                                                                          which I used as part of the substrate.

                                                                                          Either way you slice it, I now understand that my Nitrite levels are really
                                                                                          high and that with time they should go down, at which point I add fish.

                                                                                          The good news is that as a result of all the confusion I DID test my tap
                                                                                          water for excess Nitrite and it came up good. I'll test it for Nitrates
                                                                                          when I get a test kit.

                                                                                          Tony




                                                                                          At 06:39 PM 3/3/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          >If you REALLY want to do the right thing, try to understand the advice
                                                                                          >you've already been given, and stifle your impulses for immediate
                                                                                          >gratification, 'cuz 'today is the first day of the rest of your life' (and
                                                                                          >your future fishes), 'the longest journey begins with a single step',
                                                                                          >something about Robert Burns a'la '...the giftie gie us tuh see ourselves
                                                                                          >as ithers see us', and 'no matter where you go, there you are!'
                                                                                          > Jope Pascavage
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1060 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all I knew that.  That's why I said obviously it wasn't from overfeeding.  There was nothing to feed.

                                                                                          Mary

                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick <tbittick@...>
                                                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:51:01 -0500
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all


                                                                                          Mary... there AREN'T any fish... I've been waiting to add them. Looks Like I'll be waiting a little longer. <smile>

                                                                                          Tony


                                                                                          At 06:38 PM 3/3/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          I've been really fighting a high nitrite also.  Obviously, yours is cycling and not feeding too much to the fish.  I don't know about the live plants, but I've got my level down pretty good by adding some aquarium salt to it as well as some of the Stress Zyme which puts the bacteria in the water to break down the nitrites.

                                                                                          Good luck
                                                                                          Mary

                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick <tbittick@...>
                                                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:00:21 -0500
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all


                                                                                          Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that are
                                                                                          off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...

                                                                                          So. Having said all that what does it mean...

                                                                                          It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The nitrites
                                                                                          are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in niTRATEs...

                                                                                          At what point can I add fish?

                                                                                          I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES, (which
                                                                                          it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.

                                                                                          So that much I know.

                                                                                          I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?

                                                                                          The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would bring the
                                                                                          NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete which
                                                                                          they said would take about a month.

                                                                                          Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it would be.

                                                                                          Advice?

                                                                                          Tony





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                                                                                          • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                          •  
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1061 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          I'm sorry Mary. I misread what you were saying. I hate e-mail some times!

                                                                                          T

                                                                                          At 07:56 PM 3/3/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          I knew that.  That's why I said obviously it wasn't from overfeeding.  There was nothing to feed.

                                                                                          Mary

                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick <tbittick@...>
                                                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:51:01 -0500
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all


                                                                                          Mary... there AREN'T any fish... I've been waiting to add them. Looks Like I'll be waiting a little longer. <smile>

                                                                                          Tony


                                                                                          At 06:38 PM 3/3/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                          I've been really fighting a high nitrite also.  Obviously, yours is cycling and not feeding too much to the fish.  I don't know about the live plants, but I've got my level down pretty good by adding some aquarium salt to it as well as some of the Stress Zyme which puts the bacteria in the water to break down the nitrites.

                                                                                          Good luck
                                                                                          Mary

                                                                                          From: Tony Bittick <tbittick@...>
                                                                                          Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:00:21 -0500
                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all


                                                                                          Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that are
                                                                                          off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...

                                                                                          So. Having said all that what does it mean...

                                                                                          It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The nitrites
                                                                                          are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in niTRATEs...

                                                                                          At what point can I add fish?

                                                                                          I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES, (which
                                                                                          it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.

                                                                                          So that much I know.

                                                                                          I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?

                                                                                          The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would bring the
                                                                                          NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete which
                                                                                          they said would take about a month.

                                                                                          Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it would be.

                                                                                          Advice?

                                                                                          Tony





                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .





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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1062 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          Get Bio Spira by Marineland. t's the only bacteria proven to cycle a
                                                                                          tank to 3/4 capacity in 2 weeks. It will make your nitrites plummet in
                                                                                          less than a week. Don't add any fish until they are COMPLETELY gone.
                                                                                          Nitrites are nearly as deadly as ammonia, especially if your pH is above
                                                                                          7.

                                                                                          Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1063 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          The technique of adding something that will decompose into ammonia, etc., into a tank that does not have fish, in this instance, is to give the bacteria, if present, something to munch-on, thence procreate and further multiply to a level that when fish are added, there will be a nitrogen-fixing buffer established, that is more equipped to handle fish waste.
                                                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1064 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          ah! well, then you're in the second stage of cycling and soon you'll
                                                                                          see those go down and you'll be almost there!
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 3, 2004, at 6:00 PM, Tony Bittick wrote:

                                                                                          > Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          > caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that
                                                                                          > are
                                                                                          > off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > So. Having said all that what does it mean...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The
                                                                                          > nitrites
                                                                                          > are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in
                                                                                          > niTRATEs...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > At what point can I add fish?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES,
                                                                                          > (which
                                                                                          > it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > So that much I know.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would
                                                                                          > bring the
                                                                                          > NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete
                                                                                          > which
                                                                                          > they said would take about a month.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it
                                                                                          > would be.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Advice?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Tony
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >  
                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                          web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1065 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          but be careful, because amquel products give false positive ammonia
                                                                                          readings!
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 3, 2004, at 7:01 PM, bucks_boogie@... wrote:

                                                                                          > When you mentioned feeding the tank without fish, did you mean plant
                                                                                          > food?  If you're adding fish food, that'll add to the nitrates as it's
                                                                                          > broken down.  Water changes should be done or tr adding AmQuel Plus. 
                                                                                          > At
                                                                                          > least it'll detoxify ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1066 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
                                                                                          I going to have to treat my tank for Ick. (not happy about it) But
                                                                                          will the treatment be okay for "butter" my new blue lobster, and will
                                                                                          he get it or can he get it?
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1067 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
                                                                                          it depends on what you get, the best treatment for delicate animals and
                                                                                          plants alike is "aquarisol" it's VERY mild, doesn't dye the water, and
                                                                                          crustaceans and snails can survive nicely with it in the water...
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 3, 2004, at 10:17 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:

                                                                                          > I going to have to treat my tank for Ick. (not happy about it) But
                                                                                          > will the treatment be okay for "butter" my new blue lobster, and will
                                                                                          > he get it or can he get it?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1068 From: Tim Walker Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
                                                                                          Invertibrates will get knocked over in 5 seconds by anything with copper in it... so make sure no products you are using contain that.. (fish aren’t effected).. as for specifics on other treatments, I don’t know.

                                                                                          I’m thinking that with an exoskeleton, blue lobsters should be fairly immune to ick...

                                                                                          Tim

                                                                                          On 4/3/04 2:17 PM, "freedombell2002" <KPribble@...> wrote:

                                                                                          I going to have to treat my tank for Ick. (not happy about it) But
                                                                                          will the treatment be okay for "butter" my new blue lobster, and will
                                                                                          he get it or can he get it?



                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1069 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Flora Boost
                                                                                          Hi,
                                                                                          Does anybody have experience using Flora Boost? It was on Clearance
                                                                                          at PetSmart for $2.00, so I figured for that price why not try it. It
                                                                                          is Aquarium Products brand for Ponds, but the word "Pond" just means
                                                                                          its 10 times as concentrated as the regular Aqaurium stuff, its 8oz
                                                                                          and treats 2,000 gallons. It has really low #'s, 0-0-1, and
                                                                                          says "Pond plant food specially formulated to supply plants with
                                                                                          essential micro nutrients." & "Flora Boost pond plant food has been
                                                                                          specially for the pond environment. Ponds often lack the micro
                                                                                          nutrients essential for plants to thrive. Flora Boost contains no
                                                                                          nItrates or phosphates, therfore will not promote algae. Flora boost
                                                                                          supplies essential micro nutrients Iron, potassium, Magnesium and
                                                                                          Zinc."
                                                                                          My concern is the numbers, 0-0-1, being so low. Does it really have
                                                                                          significant benifit that low?
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1070 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: Flora Boost
                                                                                          that's actually kinda high. in an aquarium plant fertilizer you want
                                                                                          only micro nutrients this keeps algae from getting out of control. you
                                                                                          should get something with only:
                                                                                          nitrogen, iron, manganesse, zinc, boron, copper, and molybdate in
                                                                                          chelated forms. something like nutrafin's plant grow is a perfect one
                                                                                          really and it's 0.15-0-0. it works amazingly well. my plants explode
                                                                                          with it, and have great color and i have absolutely no algae.
                                                                                          actually most of the nutrafin products i've used have worked really
                                                                                          well.
                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                          On Mar 4, 2004, at 1:15 AM, Aaron R. Martin, cmt wrote:

                                                                                          > Hi,
                                                                                          > Does anybody have experience using Flora Boost? It was on Clearance
                                                                                          > at PetSmart for $2.00, so I figured for that price why not try it. It
                                                                                          > is Aquarium Products brand for Ponds, but the word "Pond" just means
                                                                                          > its 10 times as concentrated as the regular Aqaurium stuff, its 8oz
                                                                                          > and treats 2,000 gallons. It has really low #'s, 0-0-1, and
                                                                                          > says "Pond plant food specially formulated to supply plants with
                                                                                          > essential micro nutrients." & "Flora Boost pond plant food has been
                                                                                          > specially for the pond environment. Ponds often lack the micro
                                                                                          > nutrients essential for plants to thrive. Flora Boost contains no
                                                                                          > nItrates or phosphates, therfore will not promote algae. Flora boost
                                                                                          > supplies essential micro nutrients Iron, potassium, Magnesium and
                                                                                          > Zinc."
                                                                                          > My concern is the numbers, 0-0-1, being so low. Does it really have
                                                                                          > significant benifit that low?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1071 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/3/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
                                                                                          Thanks everyone for your help, I took the lobster and the snail out
                                                                                          of the tank and put them in another smaller tank. Then I treated the
                                                                                          larger tank for ick. (also did a water change and turned the heater
                                                                                          up a bit) hopefully all goes well and butter can move back in to his
                                                                                          larger home soon :) Sherrie
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1072 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Nitrates are "Relativly Harmless" but they are not totally harmless. Many
                                                                                          sensitive fish don't like it.

                                                                                          The first thing you can do is, get both your tap water and tank water
                                                                                          professionally tested by the fishstore. It could be that you test kit has
                                                                                          died. In a tank with good plant growth and no fish, Nitrates really cannot
                                                                                          be off the charts, unless there is something rotting in the tank.

                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >Sent: 03 March 2004 16:29
                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Okay. I've thought about that. But what does it mean for the fish and what
                                                                                          >do I do about it.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I read online today that nitrates are relatively harmless, but I seem to be
                                                                                          >hearing something else here.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Tony
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >> don't forget that in many areas the tap water has very high levels of
                                                                                          >> nitrates!
                                                                                          >> amalthea
                                                                                          >> On Mar 3, 2004, at 7:00 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>> I don't know why the nitrates in this water would be so high. I've got
                                                                                          >>> several very nice and seemingly very healthy plants growing in this
                                                                                          >>> tank and
                                                                                          >>> NO fish. The plants have been there for going on two weeks now and the
                                                                                          >>> growth is obvious. The bannana plants have grown leaves, the other
                                                                                          >>> plants
                                                                                          >>> have visibly grown...
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>> Going to have to invovle the LFS I guess. I should note that I live
                                                                                          >>> near a
                                                                                          >>> LFS that has been in our area for over 20 years and has a stellar rep.
                                                                                          >> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          >> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          >> religion....
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
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                                                                                          >>
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1073 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Tony,

                                                                                          How much Peat moss did you use? It is not worth pulling down the tank to
                                                                                          remove that. Just stick on with water changes until it stabilizes. Peat moss
                                                                                          does not rott that much so as to create horrendous nitrate spikes, plus your
                                                                                          plants are also consuming it fast. Be paitent and do water changes,
                                                                                          hopefully your tank is also 100% cycled and you can do a 70% water change
                                                                                          and monitor Nitrates for the next 1 week and decide accordingly if you can
                                                                                          have fish or not. If in the week, nitrates start to increase fast,, then
                                                                                          wait, if they don't increase fast, go ahed and add some fish.

                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >Sent: 03 March 2004 17:32
                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          ><laughing>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Well... the only thing I know for sure is THAT'S not going to happen. I'd
                                                                                          >read in a couple of different places about using peat below the substrate
                                                                                          >and then it was suggested again here so I have some confidence in that
                                                                                          >process.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I'm also thrilled with the result of my plants.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I think the trick is going to come down to water changes.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I'm going to get some equipment for that process tonight and get started
                                                                                          >there. I'm also going to test the water I have standing as well.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >> yup, if that peat is all dead and rotting the nitrate spike might get
                                                                                          >> huge because there's first so much ammonia, then so many nitrites. i'd
                                                                                          >> get that out of there, if you need peat for water conditions, you can
                                                                                          >> easily add it to the filter later...
                                                                                          >> amalthea
                                                                                          >> On Mar 3, 2004, at 11:53 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>> Hhhhmmmm.... rotting plants eh... well... When I set up the tank er
                                                                                          >>> some
                                                                                          >>> suggestions here I put down a light layer of peat moss underneath a
                                                                                          >>> 2" layer
                                                                                          >>> of gravel.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>> Could THIS be causing the problem? LFS says it WOULD be dangerous for
                                                                                          >>> the
                                                                                          >>> fish and suggested a 25% water change. Probably not a bad idea, plus
                                                                                          >>> a good
                                                                                          >>> idea to prepare me before the fish come.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>> I'll check the tap water and see. I always leave my tap water sitting
                                                                                          >>> for
                                                                                          >>> several days before adding it, so we'll see.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>> I guess I could test both the tap and the stuff that's been sittnig
                                                                                          >>> around.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          >> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          >> religion....
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1074 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: water changes
                                                                                          I use an Aquaclear 402 pump. It will pump water from a tub below the tank to
                                                                                          the tank faster then you can think of.

                                                                                          Syphon is the best option to gravel vac, however there are some battery
                                                                                          powered ones as well. Yes, that's the way the SYphon works (suck on one end
                                                                                          until it starts flowing), but the new Gravel vacs don't need you to do that.
                                                                                          You just do a up and down movements in the tank and they have a no-return
                                                                                          valve kind of a system and start the siphon process themselves.

                                                                                          Nim



                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >Sent: 03 March 2004 17:44
                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] water changes
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I've asked some questions in the past regarding how people do water
                                                                                          >changes.
                                                                                          >I'm looking for some specifics now.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I think I'm going to try to focus on 10% weekly changes. That means I have
                                                                                          >less water to keep on hand and to get rid of. I'll probably buy a small
                                                                                          >drum
                                                                                          >or plastic containter of some sort to hold the water, or I may even just
                                                                                          >stick with milk jugs.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I understand I'll need some type of tool to drain the water, preferably
                                                                                          >something that will "vacuum" the gravel, right. The ones I've seen work as
                                                                                          >a
                                                                                          >syphon, you suck on one end until the flow starts, right?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >But what if I keep my water in a drum? How do I get it from in the drum
                                                                                          >(below the tank) up and into the tank? I've heard something about pumps but
                                                                                          >would appreciate some specific examples.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Tony
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1075 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          Tony,

                                                                                          Back to Nitrites again ;) . yes, it is at the last stage of the cycle. It
                                                                                          will take about a week to come down from there and only then it will be safe
                                                                                          to add fish. You can do a water change, but since you don't have any fish in
                                                                                          there, why bother. Let the natural processes finish and then carry on with
                                                                                          the stuff. A Nitrate test kit is helpful but not essential. If you nitrite
                                                                                          goes down, it obviously means that you have nitrates and the cycle is
                                                                                          complete. But get the nitrates checked before adding the fish incase they
                                                                                          are too high. You can do a water change easily before putting the fish.

                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >Sent: 03 March 2004 23:00
                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          >caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that are
                                                                                          >off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >So. Having said all that what does it mean...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The nitrites
                                                                                          >are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in
                                                                                          >niTRATEs...
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >At what point can I add fish?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES, (which
                                                                                          >it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >So that much I know.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would bring the
                                                                                          >NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete which
                                                                                          >they said would take about a month.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it would
                                                                                          >be.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Advice?
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Tony
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1076 From: tbittick Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: once and for all
                                                                                          Nim...

                                                                                          Thanks a ton. This is pretty much the path I'm on.

                                                                                          I'll probably have the LFS check my water before I buy fish.

                                                                                          Thanks a ton for the help and advice.

                                                                                          Tony





                                                                                          Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                          > Tony,
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Back to Nitrites again ;) . yes, it is at the last stage of the cycle. It
                                                                                          > will take about a week to come down from there and only then it will be safe
                                                                                          > to add fish. You can do a water change, but since you don't have any fish in
                                                                                          > there, why bother. Let the natural processes finish and then carry on with
                                                                                          > the stuff. A Nitrate test kit is helpful but not essential. If you nitrite
                                                                                          > goes down, it obviously means that you have nitrates and the cycle is
                                                                                          > complete. But get the nitrates checked before adding the fish incase they
                                                                                          > are too high. You can do a water change easily before putting the fish.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nim
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >>From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >>Sent: 03 March 2004 23:00
                                                                                          >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                          >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] once and for all
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Okay. First and foremost, my humble apologies for the confusion I've
                                                                                          >>caused. I've gotten a chance to get home and it is the NITRITES that are
                                                                                          >>off the charts. The test I ran was for NITRITE and not nitTRATE...
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>So. Having said all that what does it mean...
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>It should mean that my tank is at the top of the cycle, right? The nitrites
                                                                                          >>are created to get rid of the ammonia and eventually will result in
                                                                                          >>niTRATEs...
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>At what point can I add fish?
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I talked to the LFS and they said that if my test was for NITRITES, (which
                                                                                          >>it turns out it was) that by no means should I do a water change.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>So that much I know.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I don't happen to have a test for nitrates, do I HAVE to have one?
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>The LFS said I could purchase some bacteria from them which would bring the
                                                                                          >>NITRITE levels down, or that I could wait for the process to complete which
                                                                                          >>they said would take about a month.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Man... this is starting to get more complicated than I had hoped it would
                                                                                          >>be.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Advice?
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Tony
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
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                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1077 From: tbittick Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: water changes
                                                                                          I bought a syphon as you suggest below, last night. I'm pretty set and glad
                                                                                          to be confident about this part of the process, finally.

                                                                                          I found these big black 18 gallon tubs on sale at a local hardware store.
                                                                                          Their great. Just the volume I need and they have these really strong rope
                                                                                          handles. I can fill one in the laundry room and still be able to drag it to
                                                                                          my office. I've got a full one sitting there now. I bought a second one to
                                                                                          empty the old water into, which will also give me an idea of how much I need
                                                                                          to replace as the tubs are indentical.

                                                                                          This part had really been weighing on me so I'm glad to have a process down.


                                                                                          Tony


                                                                                          Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                          > I use an Aquaclear 402 pump. It will pump water from a tub below the tank to
                                                                                          > the tank faster then you can think of.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Syphon is the best option to gravel vac, however there are some battery
                                                                                          > powered ones as well. Yes, that's the way the SYphon works (suck on one end
                                                                                          > until it starts flowing), but the new Gravel vacs don't need you to do that.
                                                                                          > You just do a up and down movements in the tank and they have a no-return
                                                                                          > valve kind of a system and start the siphon process themselves.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nim
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >>Sent: 03 March 2004 17:44
                                                                                          >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] water changes
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I've asked some questions in the past regarding how people do water
                                                                                          >>changes.
                                                                                          >>I'm looking for some specifics now.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I think I'm going to try to focus on 10% weekly changes. That means I have
                                                                                          >>less water to keep on hand and to get rid of. I'll probably buy a small
                                                                                          >>drum
                                                                                          >>or plastic containter of some sort to hold the water, or I may even just
                                                                                          >>stick with milk jugs.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I understand I'll need some type of tool to drain the water, preferably
                                                                                          >>something that will "vacuum" the gravel, right. The ones I've seen work as
                                                                                          >>a
                                                                                          >>syphon, you suck on one end until the flow starts, right?
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>But what if I keep my water in a drum? How do I get it from in the drum
                                                                                          >>(below the tank) up and into the tank? I've heard something about pumps but
                                                                                          >>would appreciate some specific examples.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Tony
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1078 From: tbittick Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          I really didn't use that much peat. Per you suggestion it was two or three
                                                                                          handfuls. Not even enough to measure. I made sure there was some across the
                                                                                          entire tank, but not a measureable amount. I'm very happy with the results,
                                                                                          even if it means waiting a while for the natural cycle process.

                                                                                          Tony




                                                                                          Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                          > Tony,
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > How much Peat moss did you use? It is not worth pulling down the tank to
                                                                                          > remove that. Just stick on with water changes until it stabilizes. Peat moss
                                                                                          > does not rott that much so as to create horrendous nitrate spikes, plus your
                                                                                          > plants are also consuming it fast. Be paitent and do water changes,
                                                                                          > hopefully your tank is also 100% cycled and you can do a 70% water change
                                                                                          > and monitor Nitrates for the next 1 week and decide accordingly if you can
                                                                                          > have fish or not. If in the week, nitrates start to increase fast,, then
                                                                                          > wait, if they don't increase fast, go ahed and add some fish.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nim
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >>Sent: 03 March 2004 17:32
                                                                                          >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >><laughing>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Well... the only thing I know for sure is THAT'S not going to happen. I'd
                                                                                          >>read in a couple of different places about using peat below the substrate
                                                                                          >>and then it was suggested again here so I have some confidence in that
                                                                                          >>process.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I'm also thrilled with the result of my plants.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I think the trick is going to come down to water changes.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I'm going to get some equipment for that process tonight and get started
                                                                                          >>there. I'm also going to test the water I have standing as well.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>> yup, if that peat is all dead and rotting the nitrate spike might get
                                                                                          >>> huge because there's first so much ammonia, then so many nitrites. i'd
                                                                                          >>> get that out of there, if you need peat for water conditions, you can
                                                                                          >>> easily add it to the filter later...
                                                                                          >>> amalthea
                                                                                          >>> On Mar 3, 2004, at 11:53 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>> Hhhhmmmm.... rotting plants eh... well... When I set up the tank er
                                                                                          >>>> some
                                                                                          >>>> suggestions here I put down a light layer of peat moss underneath a
                                                                                          >>>> 2" layer
                                                                                          >>>> of gravel.
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>> Could THIS be causing the problem? LFS says it WOULD be dangerous for
                                                                                          >>>> the
                                                                                          >>>> fish and suggested a 25% water change. Probably not a bad idea, plus
                                                                                          >>>> a good
                                                                                          >>>> idea to prepare me before the fish come.
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>> I'll check the tap water and see. I always leave my tap water sitting
                                                                                          >>>> for
                                                                                          >>>> several days before adding it, so we'll see.
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>> I guess I could test both the tap and the stuff that's been sittnig
                                                                                          >>>> around.
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          >>> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          >>> religion....
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
                                                                                          > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                                                                          > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
                                                                                          > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                                                                          > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ctpplB/TM
                                                                                          > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1079 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: water changes
                                                                                          That's ok, but an 18 gallon tub will weigh around 80 kilograms when full. So
                                                                                          hope your back does not give away during the process. I have a nice hidden
                                                                                          place in a corner just besides my 2 tanks which easily conceals a 210 Litre
                                                                                          tub that I have. But yes, the hose work mess around the house for an hour or
                                                                                          so, but guess that's ok for me. But its good that you have a good process
                                                                                          figured out as this is what is more important. Rest is the easy manageable
                                                                                          stuff :)

                                                                                          Good luck with it.

                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >Sent: 04 March 2004 12:48
                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: water changes
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I bought a syphon as you suggest below, last night. I'm pretty set and glad
                                                                                          >to be confident about this part of the process, finally.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I found these big black 18 gallon tubs on sale at a local hardware store.
                                                                                          >Their great. Just the volume I need and they have these really strong rope
                                                                                          >handles. I can fill one in the laundry room and still be able to drag it to
                                                                                          >my office. I've got a full one sitting there now. I bought a second one to
                                                                                          >empty the old water into, which will also give me an idea of how much I
                                                                                          >need
                                                                                          >to replace as the tubs are indentical.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >This part had really been weighing on me so I'm glad to have a process
                                                                                          >down.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Tony
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >> I use an Aquaclear 402 pump. It will pump water from a tub below the tank
                                                                                          >to
                                                                                          >> the tank faster then you can think of.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Syphon is the best option to gravel vac, however there are some battery
                                                                                          >> powered ones as well. Yes, that's the way the SYphon works (suck on one
                                                                                          >end
                                                                                          >> until it starts flowing), but the new Gravel vacs don't need you to do
                                                                                          >that.
                                                                                          >> You just do a up and down movements in the tank and they have a no-return
                                                                                          >> valve kind of a system and start the siphon process themselves.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Nim
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >>>Sent: 03 March 2004 17:44
                                                                                          >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] water changes
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>I've asked some questions in the past regarding how people do water
                                                                                          >>>changes.
                                                                                          >>>I'm looking for some specifics now.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>I think I'm going to try to focus on 10% weekly changes. That means I
                                                                                          >have
                                                                                          >>>less water to keep on hand and to get rid of. I'll probably buy a small
                                                                                          >>>drum
                                                                                          >>>or plastic containter of some sort to hold the water, or I may even just
                                                                                          >>>stick with milk jugs.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>I understand I'll need some type of tool to drain the water, preferably
                                                                                          >>>something that will "vacuum" the gravel, right. The ones I've seen work
                                                                                          >as
                                                                                          >>>a
                                                                                          >>>syphon, you suck on one end until the flow starts, right?
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>But what if I keep my water in a drum? How do I get it from in the drum
                                                                                          >>>(below the tank) up and into the tank? I've heard something about pumps
                                                                                          >but
                                                                                          >>>would appreciate some specific examples.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>Tony
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1080 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          That would be fine then. The purpose of peat in the gravel is exactly what
                                                                                          it is doing. It starts rotting and provides the plant roots with the most
                                                                                          needed nutrients in a fresh tank. Plus it also helps the cycle process,
                                                                                          though it can reduce the PH a little bit, but 2 handfulls of peat in a 125
                                                                                          gallon will not really make that much difference. Glad that the plants have
                                                                                          taken off immidiatly in a new tank as its normally the other way round
                                                                                          without the use of Peat.

                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >Sent: 04 March 2004 12:49
                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >I really didn't use that much peat. Per you suggestion it was two or three
                                                                                          >handfuls. Not even enough to measure. I made sure there was some across the
                                                                                          >entire tank, but not a measureable amount. I'm very happy with the results,
                                                                                          >even if it means waiting a while for the natural cycle process.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Tony
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >> Tony,
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> How much Peat moss did you use? It is not worth pulling down the tank to
                                                                                          >> remove that. Just stick on with water changes until it stabilizes. Peat
                                                                                          >moss
                                                                                          >> does not rott that much so as to create horrendous nitrate spikes, plus
                                                                                          >your
                                                                                          >> plants are also consuming it fast. Be paitent and do water changes,
                                                                                          >> hopefully your tank is also 100% cycled and you can do a 70% water change
                                                                                          >> and monitor Nitrates for the next 1 week and decide accordingly if you
                                                                                          >can
                                                                                          >> have fish or not. If in the week, nitrates start to increase fast,, then
                                                                                          >> wait, if they don't increase fast, go ahed and add some fish.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Nim
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >>>Sent: 03 March 2004 17:32
                                                                                          >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>><laughing>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>Well... the only thing I know for sure is THAT'S not going to happen. I'd
                                                                                          >>>read in a couple of different places about using peat below the substrate
                                                                                          >>>and then it was suggested again here so I have some confidence in that
                                                                                          >>>process.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>I'm also thrilled with the result of my plants.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>I think the trick is going to come down to water changes.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>I'm going to get some equipment for that process tonight and get started
                                                                                          >>>there. I'm also going to test the water I have standing as well.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>> yup, if that peat is all dead and rotting the nitrate spike might get
                                                                                          >>>> huge because there's first so much ammonia, then so many nitrites. i'd
                                                                                          >>>> get that out of there, if you need peat for water conditions, you can
                                                                                          >>>> easily add it to the filter later...
                                                                                          >>>> amalthea
                                                                                          >>>> On Mar 3, 2004, at 11:53 AM, tbittick wrote:
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>> Hhhhmmmm.... rotting plants eh... well... When I set up the tank er
                                                                                          >>>>> some
                                                                                          >>>>> suggestions here I put down a light layer of peat moss underneath a
                                                                                          >>>>> 2" layer
                                                                                          >>>>> of gravel.
                                                                                          >>>>>
                                                                                          >>>>> Could THIS be causing the problem? LFS says it WOULD be dangerous for
                                                                                          >>>>> the
                                                                                          >>>>> fish and suggested a 25% water change. Probably not a bad idea, plus
                                                                                          >>>>> a good
                                                                                          >>>>> idea to prepare me before the fish come.
                                                                                          >>>>>
                                                                                          >>>>> I'll check the tap water and see. I always leave my tap water sitting
                                                                                          >>>>> for
                                                                                          >>>>> several days before adding it, so we'll see.
                                                                                          >>>>>
                                                                                          >>>>>
                                                                                          >>>>> I guess I could test both the tap and the stuff that's been sittnig
                                                                                          >>>>> around.
                                                                                          >>>>>
                                                                                          >>>>>
                                                                                          >>>> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                          >>>> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                          >>>> religion....
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1081 From: tbittick Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: water changes
                                                                                          I tested in out last night. It's heavy, but thanks to the rope handles it
                                                                                          slides nicely across the floor and is sitting full next to my tank as a type
                                                                                          this.

                                                                                          I'm looking into getting some type of cover for it now.

                                                                                          I had been thinking of keeping 5 or 10 gallon jugs on hand and then just
                                                                                          doing smaller but more frequent changes. I like he idea of the big container
                                                                                          because I like having the option of pre-treating or heating the water if
                                                                                          desired.

                                                                                          Thanks for the continued help.

                                                                                          Tony


                                                                                          Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                          > That's ok, but an 18 gallon tub will weigh around 80 kilograms when full. So
                                                                                          > hope your back does not give away during the process. I have a nice hidden
                                                                                          > place in a corner just besides my 2 tanks which easily conceals a 210 Litre
                                                                                          > tub that I have. But yes, the hose work mess around the house for an hour or
                                                                                          > so, but guess that's ok for me. But its good that you have a good process
                                                                                          > figured out as this is what is more important. Rest is the easy manageable
                                                                                          > stuff :)
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Good luck with it.
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Nim
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >>Sent: 04 March 2004 12:48
                                                                                          >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: water changes
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I bought a syphon as you suggest below, last night. I'm pretty set and glad
                                                                                          >>to be confident about this part of the process, finally.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>I found these big black 18 gallon tubs on sale at a local hardware store.
                                                                                          >>Their great. Just the volume I need and they have these really strong rope
                                                                                          >>handles. I can fill one in the laundry room and still be able to drag it to
                                                                                          >>my office. I've got a full one sitting there now. I bought a second one to
                                                                                          >>empty the old water into, which will also give me an idea of how much I
                                                                                          >>need
                                                                                          >>to replace as the tubs are indentical.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>This part had really been weighing on me so I'm glad to have a process
                                                                                          >>down.
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Tony
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>> I use an Aquaclear 402 pump. It will pump water from a tub below the tank
                                                                                          >>to
                                                                                          >>> the tank faster then you can think of.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>> Syphon is the best option to gravel vac, however there are some battery
                                                                                          >>> powered ones as well. Yes, that's the way the SYphon works (suck on one
                                                                                          >>end
                                                                                          >>> until it starts flowing), but the new Gravel vacs don't need you to do
                                                                                          >>that.
                                                                                          >>> You just do a up and down movements in the tank and they have a no-return
                                                                                          >>> valve kind of a system and start the siphon process themselves.
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>> Nim
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                          >>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                          >>>>Sent: 03 March 2004 17:44
                                                                                          >>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                          >>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] water changes
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>I've asked some questions in the past regarding how people do water
                                                                                          >>>>changes.
                                                                                          >>>>I'm looking for some specifics now.
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>I think I'm going to try to focus on 10% weekly changes. That means I
                                                                                          >>have
                                                                                          >>>>less water to keep on hand and to get rid of. I'll probably buy a small
                                                                                          >>>>drum
                                                                                          >>>>or plastic containter of some sort to hold the water, or I may even just
                                                                                          >>>>stick with milk jugs.
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>I understand I'll need some type of tool to drain the water, preferably
                                                                                          >>>>something that will "vacuum" the gravel, right. The ones I've seen work
                                                                                          >>as
                                                                                          >>>>a
                                                                                          >>>>syphon, you suck on one end until the flow starts, right?
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>But what if I keep my water in a drum? How do I get it from in the drum
                                                                                          >>>>(below the tank) up and into the tank? I've heard something about pumps
                                                                                          >>but
                                                                                          >>>>would appreciate some specific examples.
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>Tony
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >>
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          >
                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1082 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                          Subject: Re: nitrite levels
                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                            You just need a tester that doesn't use nessler reagent, like the test
                                                                                            strips mentioned before.

                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1083 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                            Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
                                                                                            aquarisol is a copper sulfate cure and it is dangerous for inverts.

                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1084 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                            Subject: Re: amalthea ? Have a guestion about my new blue lobster
                                                                                            He's an invertabrate and will be poisoned by ich medicines. Be sure to
                                                                                            remove him first.

                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1085 From: Victoria Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                            Subject: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
                                                                                            Hi everyone and I'm glad to have found somewhere that I can ask
                                                                                            questions! I currently have two fish tanks, one 5 gal primarly for
                                                                                            golfish that I have no problems with for the most part... although
                                                                                            there is some algae that seems to be a problem. I add an anti-algae
                                                                                            liquid to the water when I change it and have added a pleco and that
                                                                                            seems to be the end of that problem!

                                                                                            My other tank, is a 10 gal tropical community tank that has become a
                                                                                            passion of mine. (if only I didn't live on the third floor... I'd have
                                                                                            a MUCH bigger tank! LOL). How does one get pH under control? Since
                                                                                            I've moved and re-established this tank, it seems almost impossible.
                                                                                            The local fish store (which is my favorite btw, Absolutely Fish is
                                                                                            it's name), suggested that I do partial water changes using distilled
                                                                                            water over a period of a week or so and see how that goes. Well, it's
                                                                                            been a week and there still really isn't a change.

                                                                                            I started out with a pH of greater then 7.8 in the tank... thinking it
                                                                                            was my fault.... had an Eintstein moment, then decided to test my tap
                                                                                            water, and then realized it was my tap water that was the problem,
                                                                                            hence the distilled water. I tested the first batch of distilled
                                                                                            water pH and it was something like 6.2 ph.... I just tested another
                                                                                            batch of water and the pH is closer to 7.

                                                                                            Would I be better off buying the buffured water from the fish store
                                                                                            that is actually $0.14 cheaper a gal?

                                                                                            Suggestions always welcome!

                                                                                            Thanks,
                                                                                            Tori
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1086 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                            Subject: Growing plants in aquarium
                                                                                            I was readig where some of you have used the soil and such to put your
                                                                                            plants in for growing. Well I have two of them started from my water garden
                                                                                            and they are growing just grate And I do not have soil. Just gravel and my
                                                                                            fish po po. Infact I do not even have soil in my water garden. And my plants
                                                                                            are growing better than my mother in laws. Mine has reproduced so much in
                                                                                            the last three years that I will have no problems covering the top of my
                                                                                            pond this year. And my pond is 6 ft wide x 13 ft long and it is only 3 years
                                                                                            old. I do not use fertalizers due to the allgie controil, since it is in the
                                                                                            sum most of the day. Thus my hydroponic pond and aquarium. *smile*

                                                                                            Carol/Rainbow Rose
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1087 From: Nicholas Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                            Subject: Think Tank
                                                                                            Hi there all fellow aqua-nuts!

                                                                                            After a lengthy holiday (not by choice) from aquarium keeping I now
                                                                                            find myself in the envious position of having a virgin tank to play
                                                                                            with! Yup, that's the one… the big glass box is staring at me from
                                                                                            the livingroom wall with no inhabitants apart from the 3 dust bunnies
                                                                                            who are busily breeding in the corner. 300 litres worth of
                                                                                            unadalturated playtime. Bliss!
                                                                                            The Beast is about 150 x 45 x 45 cm // 45 x 10 x 10 inches and needs,
                                                                                            in addition to some water, a few inhabitants.

                                                                                            So, question is; what do I do now?

                                                                                            I intend to stick to a tropical setup as I don't have the time or
                                                                                            commitment to go for a `saltie' yet and that would also involve some
                                                                                            investments which I can't afford. My previous tanks have included
                                                                                            the `liquorice allsorts' tank (anything goes – as long as it doesn't
                                                                                            eat it's neighbour), the `mini mart' (170 tetra's… not that I
                                                                                            counted), the `swamp' (not intentionally, you understand… I played
                                                                                            around with some N2 tablets and all hell broke loose – not nice – my
                                                                                            oh my did it smell - words fail to describe the stench!!) and
                                                                                            the `big mama' (the BIG one that didn't get away).

                                                                                            I am currently living in Norway where everything costs a small
                                                                                            fortune but apart from therefore limited finances, I have a carte
                                                                                            blanche on the project. Does anyone have any suggestions (stupid
                                                                                            question, of course you do)?
                                                                                            I know there are more ideas on the ideal set-up than there are fish
                                                                                            in tanks, but I would still like to hear some of your suggestions to
                                                                                            whip my inspiration into a frenzy.

                                                                                            So, the gauntlet is down and it's up to y'all. Would appreciate ideas
                                                                                            on what has worked for you in the past, your favorite tank or perhaps
                                                                                            your ideal tank. Ideas, thoughts, tips and hints, plants, fish,
                                                                                            worms, snails, inlaws and the like - anything goes. Bring it on!

                                                                                            Jacta alea est!

                                                                                            Nic


                                                                                            `cansomeonehelpmefixmyspacebar??'
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1088 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
                                                                                            You can actually get stuff to treat the pH ... depending on what your local water's pH is like, you can get pH downer or pH increaser. Jungle Labs makes it. (I'm noticing that they have a LOT of great products!)
                                                                                             
                                                                                            It also depends on what kind of fish you keep. Our local water has a higher pH, but then that makes our Mollies perfectly happy! 
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                             
                                                                                            browse my sig tags for request and extras
                                                                                            (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                            check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                             
                                                                                            visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                             
                                                                                            instant message me!
                                                                                            AIM : wtchymm3
                                                                                            Yahoo! messenger : vampifan22
                                                                                            MSN messenger  (no email!) : witchywmn42@...
                                                                                             
                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Date: 03/04/04 13:19:38
                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
                                                                                             
                                                                                            Hi everyone and I'm glad to have found somewhere that I can ask
                                                                                            questions!  I currently have two fish tanks, one 5 gal primarly for
                                                                                            golfish that I have no problems with for the most part... although
                                                                                            there is some algae that seems to be a problem.  I add an anti-algae
                                                                                            liquid to the water when I change it and have added a pleco and that
                                                                                            seems to be the end of that problem! 

                                                                                            My other tank, is a 10 gal tropical community tank that has become a
                                                                                            passion of mine. (if only I didn't live on the third floor... I'd have
                                                                                            a MUCH bigger tank!  LOL).  How does one get pH under control?  Since
                                                                                            I've moved and re-established this tank, it seems almost impossible.
                                                                                            The local fish store (which is my favorite btw, Absolutely Fish is
                                                                                            it's name), suggested that I do partial water changes using distilled
                                                                                            water over a period of a week or so and see how that goes.  Well, it's
                                                                                            been a week and there still really isn't a change. 

                                                                                            I started out with a pH of greater then 7.8 in the tank... thinking it
                                                                                            was my fault.... had an Eintstein moment, then decided to test my tap
                                                                                            water, and then realized it was my tap water that was the problem,
                                                                                            hence the distilled water.  I tested the first batch of distilled
                                                                                            water pH and it was something like 6.2 ph.... I just tested another
                                                                                            batch of water and the pH is closer to 7.

                                                                                            Would I be better off buying the buffured water from the fish store
                                                                                            that is actually $0.14 cheaper a gal?

                                                                                            Suggestions always welcome!

                                                                                            Thanks,
                                                                                            Tori


                                                                                             
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1089 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Growing plants in aquarium
                                                                                            Carol,

                                                                                            It's a matter of plant species and amount of available Nutrients. Gravel is
                                                                                            also a good enough substrate for plants and soil etc. adds on a little edge
                                                                                            by providing the roots with readily available nutrients. I don't say that a
                                                                                            gravel cannot have them, but the gravel has to accumulate these nutrients
                                                                                            from fertilizers and fish poo, where as soil is already rich in them. A pond
                                                                                            environment is much richer then an aquarium in terms of light, rain,
                                                                                            atmosphere, volume of water, and water flowing from the garden. An aquarium
                                                                                            is too much of a concealed enviorment to benefit from these things, neverthe
                                                                                            less, an aged aquarium will perform as well as a newly setup soil based
                                                                                            aquarium. There are too many variables to properly establish a comparison.

                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                            >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                            >From: Carol Schnipke [mailto:rainbowrose@...]
                                                                                            >Sent: 04 March 2004 11:02
                                                                                            >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                            >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Growing plants in aquarium
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >I was readig where some of you have used the soil and such to put your
                                                                                            >plants in for growing. Well I have two of them started from my water garden
                                                                                            >and they are growing just grate And I do not have soil. Just gravel and my
                                                                                            >fish po po. Infact I do not even have soil in my water garden. And my
                                                                                            >plants
                                                                                            >are growing better than my mother in laws. Mine has reproduced so much in
                                                                                            >the last three years that I will have no problems covering the top of my
                                                                                            >pond this year. And my pond is 6 ft wide x 13 ft long and it is only 3
                                                                                            >years
                                                                                            >old. I do not use fertalizers due to the allgie controil, since it is in
                                                                                            >the
                                                                                            >sum most of the day. Thus my hydroponic pond and aquarium. *smile*
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >Carol/Rainbow Rose
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            >
                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1090 From: amalthea x Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                            Subject: Re: Growing plants in aquarium
                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                              Carol,

                                                                                              It's a matter of plant species and amount of available Nutrients. Gravel is
                                                                                              also a good enough substrate for plants and soil etc. adds on a little edge
                                                                                              by providing the roots with readily available nutrients. I don't say that a
                                                                                              gravel cannot have them, but the gravel has to accumulate these nutrients
                                                                                              from fertilizers and fish poo, where as soil is already rich in them. A pond
                                                                                              environment is much richer then an aquarium in terms of light, rain,
                                                                                              atmosphere, volume of water, and water flowing from the garden. An aquarium
                                                                                              is too much of a concealed enviorment to benefit from these things, neverthe
                                                                                              less, an aged aquarium will perform as well as a newly setup soil based
                                                                                              aquarium. There are too many variables to properly establish a comparison.

                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: Carol Schnipke [mailto:rainbowrose@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 04 March 2004 11:02
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Growing plants in aquarium
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I was readig where some of you have used the soil and such to put your
                                                                                              >plants in for growing. Well I have two of them started from my water garden
                                                                                              >and they are growing just grate And I do not have soil. Just gravel and my
                                                                                              >fish po po. Infact I do not even have soil in my water garden. And my
                                                                                              >plants
                                                                                              >are growing better than my mother in laws. Mine has reproduced so much in
                                                                                              >the last three years that I will have no problems covering the top of my
                                                                                              >pond this year. And my pond is 6 ft wide x 13 ft long and it is only 3
                                                                                              >years
                                                                                              >old. I do not use fertalizers due to the allgie controil, since it is in
                                                                                              >the
                                                                                              >sum most of the day. Thus my hydroponic pond and aquarium. *smile*
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Carol/Rainbow Rose
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >

                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1091 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
                                                                                              Tori,

                                                                                              Don't bother with additives. It all depends what fish you have. If you can
                                                                                              list them down then we can suggest better as to weather you need to adjust
                                                                                              the PH or not. In most cases a PH of 7.8 is good enough for a lot of
                                                                                              tropical community fish. Moreover, if your fish store properly quarantines
                                                                                              them and his water is same as yours (don't believe what they say, get the
                                                                                              water tested in front of you) then you don't really need to alter the PH as
                                                                                              the fish are already acclimatized to it. However if you keep things like,
                                                                                              sensitive tetras, discus (in a 10 gallon I doubt), or South American
                                                                                              cichlids, only then you may need to adjust the PH.

                                                                                              There are easier ways of adjusting the PH then buying water from store.
                                                                                              Distilled water is the least recommended as it cannot support life. So scrap
                                                                                              this idea and also no need to consider buying water for the tanks.

                                                                                              The API Ph down is the most reasonable and safe PH reducer I have come
                                                                                              across but you may need some experimentation with your water to determine
                                                                                              the proper amount to add while changing water. Other messy but safe and
                                                                                              natural method is Peat filtration. Peat effectively softens and acidifies
                                                                                              the water and creates a near perfect environment for soft water loving fish.
                                                                                              But it colures the water as yellow.

                                                                                              You can also use PH Buffers, but they are not safe for plants and they are
                                                                                              phosphate based, so could invite algae.

                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: Victoria [mailto:GoldenEydGoddess@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 04 March 2004 15:50
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi... New Member.... With
                                                                                              >questions as always ;-)
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Hi everyone and I'm glad to have found somewhere that I can ask
                                                                                              >questions! I currently have two fish tanks, one 5 gal primarly for
                                                                                              >golfish that I have no problems with for the most part... although
                                                                                              >there is some algae that seems to be a problem. I add an anti-algae
                                                                                              >liquid to the water when I change it and have added a pleco and that
                                                                                              >seems to be the end of that problem!
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >My other tank, is a 10 gal tropical community tank that has become a
                                                                                              >passion of mine. (if only I didn't live on the third floor... I'd have
                                                                                              >a MUCH bigger tank! LOL). How does one get pH under control? Since
                                                                                              >I've moved and re-established this tank, it seems almost impossible.
                                                                                              >The local fish store (which is my favorite btw, Absolutely Fish is
                                                                                              >it's name), suggested that I do partial water changes using distilled
                                                                                              >water over a period of a week or so and see how that goes. Well, it's
                                                                                              >been a week and there still really isn't a change.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I started out with a pH of greater then 7.8 in the tank... thinking it
                                                                                              >was my fault.... had an Eintstein moment, then decided to test my tap
                                                                                              >water, and then realized it was my tap water that was the problem,
                                                                                              >hence the distilled water. I tested the first batch of distilled
                                                                                              >water pH and it was something like 6.2 ph.... I just tested another
                                                                                              >batch of water and the pH is closer to 7.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Would I be better off buying the buffured water from the fish store
                                                                                              >that is actually $0.14 cheaper a gal?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Suggestions always welcome!
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Thanks,
                                                                                              >Tori
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1092 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Growing plants in aquarium
                                                                                              Well it is really funny about these two plants. Because last fall I found
                                                                                              some seeds in the water garden. So I brought them in and placed them in our
                                                                                              little aquarium. And Now they look so good that you cannot tell them from
                                                                                              the fake ones loll. I retransplanted them from our smaller tank of 20 gallon
                                                                                              to our 75 gallon. And they are doing just great.So come spring and summer I
                                                                                              am going to be bringing in other plants that will work nicely in the larger
                                                                                              tank.
                                                                                              Carol

                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                              From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:45 PM
                                                                                              Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Growing plants in aquarium


                                                                                              > Carol,
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > It's a matter of plant species and amount of available Nutrients. Gravel
                                                                                              is
                                                                                              > also a good enough substrate for plants and soil etc. adds on a little
                                                                                              edge
                                                                                              > by providing the roots with readily available nutrients. I don't say that
                                                                                              a
                                                                                              > gravel cannot have them, but the gravel has to accumulate these nutrients
                                                                                              > from fertilizers and fish poo, where as soil is already rich in them. A
                                                                                              pond
                                                                                              > environment is much richer then an aquarium in terms of light, rain,
                                                                                              > atmosphere, volume of water, and water flowing from the garden. An
                                                                                              aquarium
                                                                                              > is too much of a concealed enviorment to benefit from these things,
                                                                                              neverthe
                                                                                              > less, an aged aquarium will perform as well as a newly setup soil based
                                                                                              > aquarium. There are too many variables to properly establish a comparison.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Nim
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              > >From: Carol Schnipke [mailto:rainbowrose@...]
                                                                                              > >Sent: 04 March 2004 11:02
                                                                                              > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Growing plants in aquarium
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >I was readig where some of you have used the soil and such to put your
                                                                                              > >plants in for growing. Well I have two of them started from my water
                                                                                              garden
                                                                                              > >and they are growing just grate And I do not have soil. Just gravel and
                                                                                              my
                                                                                              > >fish po po. Infact I do not even have soil in my water garden. And my
                                                                                              > >plants
                                                                                              > >are growing better than my mother in laws. Mine has reproduced so much in
                                                                                              > >the last three years that I will have no problems covering the top of my
                                                                                              > >pond this year. And my pond is 6 ft wide x 13 ft long and it is only 3
                                                                                              > >years
                                                                                              > >old. I do not use fertalizers due to the allgie controil, since it is in
                                                                                              > >the
                                                                                              > >sum most of the day. Thus my hydroponic pond and aquarium. *smile*
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >Carol/Rainbow Rose
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1093 From: Victoria Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
                                                                                              Actually, the only real reason that I've decided to fight this battle
                                                                                              with the pH is that I'd like to get more into living plants in my
                                                                                              tanks.... and have so far had minimal success.

                                                                                              As far as what types of fish I have in the tank.....
                                                                                              there's a baby pleco, an angelfish, pair of gold dust platties, four
                                                                                              baby zebras, and and albino shark tipped fish.

                                                                                              As far as plants go, the only things I've ever had luck growing have
                                                                                              been swordtails... and those tend to thrive in my tanks. I've been
                                                                                              trying to "save" some grassy looking stuff that I bought a few weeks
                                                                                              back, but it looks as if I'm losing the battle.

                                                                                              I do have to say though that the fish do appear MUCH more active since
                                                                                              I've started adding distilled water to the tank and managing to get the
                                                                                              pH down slightly.... and others have commented on this as well... not
                                                                                              knowing that I have been on this "crusade" LOL.

                                                                                              Nimish Mathur wrote on 3/4/2004, 2:06 PM:

                                                                                              > Tori,
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Don't bother with additives. It all depends what fish you have. If you
                                                                                              > can
                                                                                              > list them down then we can suggest better as to weather you need to
                                                                                              > adjust


                                                                                              --
                                                                                              Fondly,
                                                                                              Tori
                                                                                              www.livejournal.com/users/goldeneydgoddes
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1094 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
                                                                                              Well Tori,

                                                                                              Regarding Live plants, a PH of 7.8 is good enough for them also. Check out
                                                                                              my site http://www.nimmat.com:81 , though the pics are old and that time I
                                                                                              had a PH of 8.2 in my tank. The main problem with plants is the limiting
                                                                                              nutrients(in water and the substrate). In a new tank, the substrate will not
                                                                                              have enough to help the plants grow. Distilled water will not help plants in
                                                                                              any way either. But yes, plants do better in a low PH then in alkaline, but
                                                                                              it really makes a difference in High light (4 watts per gallon)and CO2 setup
                                                                                              tanks. In a low light (<2 watts per gallon) setup, both are more or less the
                                                                                              same. Low PH will be able to hold more CO2 chemically then a alkaline PH
                                                                                              water, and CO2 is one of the most important nutrients.

                                                                                              Some questions: How old is your tank? What substrate do you have? What is
                                                                                              the GH and KH of your water? What is the GH and KH of your tap water? the
                                                                                              Swordtails you mention, are they the Amazon swords? Swordtails are fish
                                                                                              actually :P. how much light do you have on the tank and its durations, water
                                                                                              change schedule. And if you use any plant fertilizers? Which one?

                                                                                              Fish will be happier in a mature old tank rather then a new one. And except
                                                                                              angels, all fish you have would really preffer a PH of around 7.5 which
                                                                                              suits you. But angels as it is are very hardy and can acclimatize to even PH
                                                                                              8.2(I have had them for years in this water).

                                                                                              Regarding grassy plants, some in the market are bog plants. i.e not true
                                                                                              aquatic plants and will die within a month or 2 when kept submerged. Other
                                                                                              grassy plants like lillaeopsis etc. are high light demanding plants which
                                                                                              will succumb in a low light setup. Even I have problems getting them to go.
                                                                                              It is very difficult to get hold of grassy foreground pure aquatic plants
                                                                                              that will live in low light. So I guess this has been a problem with you.
                                                                                              Echinodorus quadricostatus (magadalensis) is a good foreground plants that
                                                                                              can form pastures. Echinodorus tennelus is another one but slow growing.

                                                                                              I would suggest you to try out plants like Limnophylla sessiflora/aquatica,
                                                                                              Hygrophylla species, cryptocorynes(they need a mature or a rich substrate),
                                                                                              vallisenarias etc.. these are all hardy plants and good for starters. Also
                                                                                              note that PH fluctuations will effect your plants faster then it will effect
                                                                                              the fish. So play a little less with it ;).

                                                                                              Do let us know the answers to the questions, it will give a wider view.

                                                                                              Nim


                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: Victoria [mailto:GoldenEydGoddess@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 04 March 2004 20:57
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi... New Member.... With
                                                                                              >questions as always ;-)
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Actually, the only real reason that I've decided to fight this battle
                                                                                              >with the pH is that I'd like to get more into living plants in my
                                                                                              >tanks.... and have so far had minimal success.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >As far as what types of fish I have in the tank.....
                                                                                              >there's a baby pleco, an angelfish, pair of gold dust platties, four
                                                                                              >baby zebras, and and albino shark tipped fish.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >As far as plants go, the only things I've ever had luck growing have
                                                                                              >been swordtails... and those tend to thrive in my tanks. I've been
                                                                                              >trying to "save" some grassy looking stuff that I bought a few weeks
                                                                                              >back, but it looks as if I'm losing the battle.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I do have to say though that the fish do appear MUCH more active since
                                                                                              >I've started adding distilled water to the tank and managing to get the
                                                                                              >pH down slightly.... and others have commented on this as well... not
                                                                                              >knowing that I have been on this "crusade" LOL.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Nimish Mathur wrote on 3/4/2004, 2:06 PM:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > > Tori,
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Don't bother with additives. It all depends what fish you have. If you
                                                                                              > > can
                                                                                              > > list them down then we can suggest better as to weather you need to
                                                                                              > > adjust
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >--
                                                                                              >Fondly,
                                                                                              >Tori
                                                                                              >www.livejournal.com/users/goldeneydgoddes
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1095 From: chris3_16@yahoo.com Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Sharks, rays, plecos, and inverts in the same tank?
                                                                                              I was wondering if it would be safe or recommended to put sharks,
                                                                                              stingrays, plecos and invertibrates in the same tank? Its a 75
                                                                                              gallon long and wide tank with lots of air, circulation, heat and
                                                                                              filters. Can anyone help please.
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1096 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: snail keeps have a question....
                                                                                              I have two varieties of snails a golden apple and a mystery snail.
                                                                                              seens my larger tank has ick, I've had to put them together, Has
                                                                                              anyone had any trouble with this? having two varieties of snails
                                                                                              together. I have been watching them and they are staying really close
                                                                                              together (well really mostly I see the mystery snail on top of the
                                                                                              apple snail) are they mating or are they fighting? OR is one going to
                                                                                              kill the other? I know this is silly but I really like my apple snail
                                                                                              and wouldn't want anything to happen to her. Thanks sherrie
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1097 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Sharks, rays, plecos, and inverts in the same tank?
                                                                                              Hi do you have a ray already? If not, have you done much reading
                                                                                              about them? The reason I'm asking is.... I recently contemplated on
                                                                                              getting one, but after reading many websites I found they need a very
                                                                                              large tank like a 100 or larger. Also I went to a LFS and they had a
                                                                                              freshwater ray and it was in at least a 100 gallon tank and it seem
                                                                                              to be too small for the poor ray. I know its very tempting but I
                                                                                              recently went thur a similar problem, I had a sliver arowana, its was
                                                                                              growning omost a inch a week! I got it when was only about 3 inches
                                                                                              long and when I sold it, it was at 11 inches. And only had it 2
                                                                                              months. It was very sad to me to have to sell it but I couldn't at
                                                                                              the time get a larger tank for it. I know very little about the
                                                                                              varieties of freshwater rays so maybe the one you have or the one
                                                                                              you thinking of getting is small. ( 0r a slow grower) Just thought I
                                                                                              would throw that out there "food for thought" :) sherrie P.S.
                                                                                              please let me know what kind of ray you are talking about so I may
                                                                                              learn more :) --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                              chris3_16@y... wrote:
                                                                                              > I was wondering if it would be safe or recommended to put sharks,
                                                                                              > stingrays, plecos and invertibrates in the same tank? Its a 75
                                                                                              > gallon long and wide tank with lots of air, circulation, heat and
                                                                                              > filters. Can anyone help please.
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1098 From: Victoria Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hi... New Member.... With questions as always ;-)
                                                                                              Nim,
                                                                                              This particular tank has been set up for a good solid year now..... I've moved several times in the past couple years and the tanks (and the plants and fish have all moved with me with varying degrees of success).  The one sword plant I was referring to has been with me close to TWO years now. 

                                                                                              I currently only have a 15w bulb for the tank so I'm guessing that this is way too low for what the tank needs as far as lighting?  How many hours per day does it need to be on?  As a side note, I do keep the tanks covered for a few hours during the afternoon when the sun is high in the living room, which has cut down tremendously on my algae growth... even though the tanks aren't in direct sun light.

                                                                                              As far as substrate goes, I don't have anything other then gravel.  My father got me interested in aquariums some 15 years ago and that was all he ever used... LOL. He briefly tried real plants but he easily frustrated and gave up much to easily in them.  He always used gravel so that's what's in my tank.  Is it possible to change what's in there now even though the tank is already established or does it matter at this point?

                                                                                              I will look into getting the buffered water from the fish store this weekend when the boyfriend is around and able to carry it up the three flights of stairs for me!  ;-)

                                                                                              I'm not sure what GH or KH mean, but I do know that I do have VERY hard water.  I do 15% water changes twice a week for the tanks.

                                                                                              I recently started using Kent Freshwater Plant liquid fertilizer... was what the fish store claims to use on their live plant show tank.  I actually think I've noticed a difference in my tank.

                                                                                              All right, I think I've answered all the questions!  LOL

                                                                                              Nimish Mathur wrote on 3/4/2004, 4:43 PM:

                                                                                              > But yes, plants do better in a low PH then in alkaline, butit
                                                                                              really makes a difference in High light (4 watts per gallon) and CO2 setup tanks. In a low light (<2 watts per gallon) setup, both are more or less the
                                                                                              > same. Low PH will be able to hold more CO2 chemically then a
                                                                                              alkaline PH water, and CO2 is one of the most important nutrients.

                                                                                              > Some questions: How old is your tank? What substrate do you have?
                                                                                              What is
                                                                                              > the GH and KH of your water? What is the GH and KH of your tap
                                                                                              water?

                                                                                              --
                                                                                              Fondly,
                                                                                              Tori
                                                                                              www.livejournal.com/users/goldeneydgoddes

                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1099 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: filter life
                                                                                              I've heard and or read that typically you should change your filter every
                                                                                              thirty days or so. With that in mind, I've had my tank up now for a little
                                                                                              over two weeks with no fish and only live plants. I checked the filters
                                                                                              today and they were both pretty dark. I know what a clean filter looks
                                                                                              like, I just don't know how a filter should look when it's ready for the trash.

                                                                                              I'd appreciate some input on this.

                                                                                              Tony
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1100 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: filter life, fwiw
                                                                                              I'm running a Whisper 30-60 if it makes a difference.

                                                                                              T
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1101 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: filter life
                                                                                              what kind of filter is it? is it a pad or floss? are there baskets?
                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                              On Mar 4, 2004, at 8:50 PM, Tony Bittick wrote:

                                                                                              > I've heard and or read that typically you should change your filter
                                                                                              > every
                                                                                              > thirty days or so. With that in mind, I've had my tank up now for a
                                                                                              > little
                                                                                              > over two weeks with no fish and only live plants. I checked the
                                                                                              > filters
                                                                                              > today and they were both pretty dark. I know what a clean filter looks
                                                                                              > like, I just don't know how a filter should look when it's ready for
                                                                                              > the trash.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > I'd appreciate some input on this.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Tony
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > ADVERTISEMENT
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                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                              >  
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                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >  
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                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                              religion....
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1102 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: filter life
                                                                                              Somewhere I've seen an expert state that a filter filters better as time passes. But it will absolutely clog, and it slows your water turnover as it accumulates dirt.It also begins to stink, and if unattended, could shut your system biological efficacy off.
                                                                                              Incidentally, has anyone looked into using polyseter-felt? There was a product 10 or so years ago calles 'White Shark" filter media, and it resembled polyester felt, had, besides the interwoven fiber-matrix, possibly very fine threads to help bind it together. The company went out of business, but their filter was so good, I've been using it over 10 years. It originally had micron level filterability, and since it was so very durable, I theorized they could'nt sell replacements, 'cuz once you used it, you did'nd need to replace it. Soak it in a bleach-solution when needed, and it's ready to go again, and it filters more than the polyester fluff that stretches and mats to uselessness. And occassionally rinsing a filter should'nt be too much trouble.Anyone who's had recourse to fabrics and textiles could mentate as to whether or not polyester felt could be useful as a better filter material.
                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                              > what kind of filter is it? is it a pad or floss? are there baskets?
                                                                                              > amalthea
                                                                                              > On Mar 4, 2004, at 8:50 PM, Tony Bittick wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > > I've heard and or read that typically you should change your filter
                                                                                              > > every
                                                                                              > > thirty days or so. With that in mind, I've had my tank up now for a
                                                                                              > > little
                                                                                              > > over two weeks with no fish and only live plants. I checked the
                                                                                              > > filters
                                                                                              > > today and they were both pretty dark. I know what a clean filter looks
                                                                                              > > like, I just don't know how a filter should look when it's ready for
                                                                                              > > the trash.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > I'd appreciate some input on this.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Tony
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > <l.gif>
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                              > > �
                                                                                              > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > > �
                                                                                              > > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                              > > Service.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                              > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                              > religion....
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1103 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/4/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: filter life
                                                                                              Hi Tony,

                                                                                              My filter system holds four cartridges, two filter pads with carbon
                                                                                              and two empty cartridges that you put what you want/need into. On the
                                                                                              pads I have two sets and I do not throw them out. What I do is about
                                                                                              every 30 days or so I remove the pads in the filter and replace them
                                                                                              with the second set. I them rinse the pads with hot water and the
                                                                                              spray nozzle in the kitchen sink and set them out to dry. In thirty
                                                                                              days I repeat the cycle. The other two empty cartridges I have carbon
                                                                                              in one and the amonia pellets in the other. Sorry I know they are not
                                                                                              called amonia pellets but at this time of night the name escapes me.
                                                                                              At any rate these I clean and refill as needed. I also run an under
                                                                                              gravel filter. This may not be the norm for most but it works for me
                                                                                              and my water quality is good, my plants are healthy and my fish,
                                                                                              crabs, and shrimp are all doing well.

                                                                                              Mike


                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Tony Bittick
                                                                                              <tbittick@p...> wrote:
                                                                                              > I've heard and or read that typically you should change your filter
                                                                                              every
                                                                                              > thirty days or so. With that in mind, I've had my tank up now for a
                                                                                              little
                                                                                              > over two weeks with no fish and only live plants. I checked the
                                                                                              filters
                                                                                              > today and they were both pretty dark. I know what a clean filter
                                                                                              looks
                                                                                              > like, I just don't know how a filter should look when it's ready
                                                                                              for the trash.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > I'd appreciate some input on this.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Tony
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1104 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/5/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: filter life
                                                                                              Tony,
                                                                                              Depends on the type of media. Most media (types of foams etc.) can easily
                                                                                              last over 6 months. I have some running for over a year. Filter floss lives
                                                                                              for 3-4 months depending on the bio load. But don't go about changing the
                                                                                              filter media every month. If you ever have to do it, do it in stages. First
                                                                                              layer first, then next month do the next layer and so on. You don't want to
                                                                                              lose the colonies of beneficial bacteria living in the filter.

                                                                                              The best judge of a filter life is the aquarist. Once you clean a clogged
                                                                                              media with tank/dechlorinated water, it can work as new. But if after
                                                                                              considerable cleaning, it starts to get clogged too soon or starts to effect
                                                                                              the flow of the pump. Start the changing process. Until then, don't bother.
                                                                                              I don't even clean my filter until it starts to choke. Don't go on looks. Go
                                                                                              on performance.

                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 05 March 2004 01:51
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] filter life
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I've heard and or read that typically you should change your filter every
                                                                                              >thirty days or so. With that in mind, I've had my tank up now for a little
                                                                                              >over two weeks with no fish and only live plants. I checked the filters
                                                                                              >today and they were both pretty dark. I know what a clean filter looks
                                                                                              >like, I just don't know how a filter should look when it's ready for the
                                                                                              >trash.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I'd appreciate some input on this.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Tony
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1105 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/5/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: filter life
                                                                                              they sell a really similar material in my LPS, but i can't recall what
                                                                                              it was called at the moment. next time i'm in there i'll have a look...
                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                              On Mar 5, 2004, at 12:49 AM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                              > Somewhere I've seen an expert state that a filter filters better as
                                                                                              > time passes. But it will absolutely clog, and it slows your water
                                                                                              > turnover as it accumulates dirt.It also begins to stink, and if
                                                                                              > unattended, could shut your system biological efficacy off.
                                                                                              > Incidentally, has anyone looked into using polyseter-felt? There
                                                                                              > was a product 10 or so years ago calles 'White Shark" filter media,
                                                                                              > and it resembled polyester felt, had, besides the interwoven
                                                                                              > fiber-matrix, possibly very fine threads to help bind it together. The
                                                                                              > company went out of business, but their filter was so good, I've been
                                                                                              > using it over 10 years. It originally had micron level filterability,
                                                                                              > and since it was so very durable, I theorized they could'nt sell
                                                                                              > replacements, 'cuz once you used it, you did'nd need to replace it.
                                                                                              > Soak it in a bleach-solution when needed, and it's ready to go again,
                                                                                              > and it filters more than the polyester fluff that stretches and mats
                                                                                              > to uselessness. And occassionally rinsing a filter should'nt be too
                                                                                              > much trouble.Anyone who's had recourse to fabrics and textiles could
                                                                                              > mentate as to whether or not polyester felt could be useful as a
                                                                                              > better filter material.
                                                                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                              >> what kind of filter is it? is it a pad or floss? are there baskets?
                                                                                              >> amalthea
                                                                                              >> On Mar 4, 2004, at 8:50 PM, Tony Bittick wrote:
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>> I've heard and or read that typically you should change your filter
                                                                                              >>> every
                                                                                              >>> thirty days or so. With that in mind, I've had my tank up now for a
                                                                                              >>> little
                                                                                              >>> over two weeks with no fish and only live plants. I checked the
                                                                                              >>> filters
                                                                                              >>> today and they were both pretty dark. I know what a clean filter
                                                                                              >>> looks
                                                                                              >>> like, I just don't know how a filter should look when it's ready for
                                                                                              >>> the trash.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> I'd appreciate some input on this.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Tony
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> <l.gif>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                              >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                              >>>  
                                                                                              >>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>  
                                                                                              >>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                              >>> Service.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >> http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                              >> for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                              >> religion....
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >


                                                                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1106 From: piaba Date: 3/5/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Sharks, rays, plecos, and inverts in a tank
                                                                                              i agree with sherrie. the problem with many people is
                                                                                              that they don't do enough research or thinking before
                                                                                              getting a pet. there are no small-sized freshwater
                                                                                              stingrays. all the species that occur mostly in the
                                                                                              amazon and southeast asia. the ones that are sold as
                                                                                              "teacup rays" are babies. due to their habits, they
                                                                                              need a very wide and long tank; in other words, they
                                                                                              don't care for volume of water or height of tank as
                                                                                              much as surface space. they all require more space
                                                                                              than most people can provide, not to mention a very
                                                                                              soft sand substrate. and they grow too big for most
                                                                                              of us.

                                                                                              we already have in the u.s. a huge problem with all
                                                                                              these unwanted pacus, red-tailed catfish, pythons,
                                                                                              boas, arowanas, even oscars (not to mention all the
                                                                                              dogs and cats that are put to sleep every year - over
                                                                                              10 million), because they grow too big for people to
                                                                                              keep them. they are cute when small, but when they
                                                                                              grow to adulthood, what? public zoos and aquaria are
                                                                                              innundated with requests from people to take their
                                                                                              unwanted pets, and they can't accept them in general.

                                                                                              there are very few sharks that live in freshwater,
                                                                                              mostly in the amazon. but i as with the rays, they
                                                                                              need a very large tank. have you seen any FW sharks
                                                                                              for sale?

                                                                                              again, it's important to do your research and think
                                                                                              about it before you buy a pet. sorry for getting on
                                                                                              the soapbox, but all these unwanted pets out there
                                                                                              being put to sleep really make me upset...


                                                                                              tsuh yang



                                                                                              > Hi do you have a ray already? If not, have you done
                                                                                              > much reading
                                                                                              > about them? The reason I'm asking is.... I recently
                                                                                              > contemplated on
                                                                                              > getting one, but after reading many websites I found
                                                                                              > they need a very
                                                                                              > large tank like a 100 or larger. Also I went to a
                                                                                              > LFS and they had a
                                                                                              > freshwater ray and it was in at least a 100 gallon
                                                                                              > tank and it seem
                                                                                              > to be too small for the poor ray. I know its very
                                                                                              > tempting but I
                                                                                              > recently went thur a similar problem, I had a sliver
                                                                                              > arowana, its was
                                                                                              > growning omost a inch a week! I got it when was only
                                                                                              > about 3 inches
                                                                                              > long and when I sold it, it was at 11 inches. And
                                                                                              > only had it 2
                                                                                              > months. It was very sad to me to have to sell it but
                                                                                              > I couldn't at
                                                                                              > the time get a larger tank for it. I know very
                                                                                              > little about the
                                                                                              > varieties of freshwater rays so maybe the one you
                                                                                              > have or the one
                                                                                              > you thinking of getting is small.

                                                                                              __________________________________
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                                                                                              Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1107 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/5/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail keeps have a question....freedombell2002
                                                                                              Mystery snails come in many colours, golden is just one of the
                                                                                              colours and black,purple,ivory,blue, brown and variations on these and
                                                                                              they will mate.In my tank i keep blues,blacks,golden, and they get along
                                                                                              just fine and mate sometimes to much,hehehehh.
                                                                                              Everything will be fine with them being in the same tank.
                                                                                              crys
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1108 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/6/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Sharks, rays, plecos, and inverts in the same tank?
                                                                                              I do not know a lot about keeping sharks or rays, but a 75 gal tank
                                                                                              seem to me to be to small. I have never seen a shark or ray that
                                                                                              stayed small and I would worry that they will out grow the tank. I
                                                                                              have seen this with other fish. People buy them when they are small
                                                                                              and the next thing you know they are so big they can't even turn
                                                                                              around in the tank and just have to hang there not really swimming.
                                                                                              (really bad for sharks) Do your research first, and do not take the
                                                                                              salesmans word at the fish store. They have been known to say
                                                                                              anything just to make a sale.

                                                                                              Mike


                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, chris3_16@y...
                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                              > I was wondering if it would be safe or recommended to put sharks,
                                                                                              > stingrays, plecos and invertibrates in the same tank? Its a 75
                                                                                              > gallon long and wide tank with lots of air, circulation, heat and
                                                                                              > filters. Can anyone help please.
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1109 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/6/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Think Tank
                                                                                              Nic, my question to you would be, what type of water comes out of your
                                                                                              tap? Hard and alkaline or soft and acidic?

                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1110 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/6/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Plants turning clear?
                                                                                              Hey all, about 5 days ago I bought a few sord plants (I think, they're leafy like) and one of the leafs is turning clear.  I can still see the veins and a vauge outline of the leaf, but it's seethroughable.  Not like something has been eating it, but it's just lost its color.  Any suggestions?  I'm getting ready to add a Co2 injector to it as soon as I finish my 3 liter pop bottles.  I have an 80gal if that helps.

                                                                                              Thank you!

                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1111 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/6/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants turning clear?
                                                                                              you might not have enough iron in the water. without that the plants
                                                                                              can turn clear and rot. try getting a plant fertilizer with chelated
                                                                                              iron in it and other micro nutrients. never get anything with macro
                                                                                              nutrients, as that can cause an algae bloom...
                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                              On Mar 6, 2004, at 2:18 PM, Edward Sola wrote:

                                                                                              > Hey all, about 5 days ago I bought a few sord plants (I think, they're
                                                                                              > leafy like) and one of the leafs is turning clear.  I can still see
                                                                                              > the veins and a vauge outline of the leaf, but it's seethroughable. 
                                                                                              > Not like something has been eating it, but it's just lost its color. 
                                                                                              > Any suggestions?  I'm getting ready to add a Co2 injector to it as
                                                                                              > soon as I finish my 3 liter pop bottles.  I have an 80gal if that
                                                                                              > helps.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Thank you!
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Edward
                                                                                              > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                              >  
                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >  
                                                                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                              religion....
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1112 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/6/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants turning clear?

                                                                                              Ed, if its just a 5 day old plant, then I suspect that it was probably grown emerged and its those emerged leaves that are giving away as a 5 day old plant if was well kept submerged can sustain a load of nutrients within itself. There could however also be a culprit like a plec who eats it only in the night. Mine does and so I know. Any mineral deficiency is unlikely as the plants is still trying to re-establish itself and does not yet have itself rooted in the substrate properly so it may be just a natural give way to newer growth. Wait and watch, check any new leaves that are coming to see if they also show similar effects or they are normal. But just to be in the safe side, add a flourish root tab near its root to help it grip faster and treat the water with fertilizer that does not contain nitrogen or phosphorous. CO2 may be of little help here for it at this stage.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                               

                                                                                               


                                                                                              From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                              Sent: 06 March 2004 19:19
                                                                                              To: Uniquaria; Freshwater Aquariums; Freshwater TropicalFish
                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Plants turning clear?

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Hey all, about 5 days ago I bought a few sord plants (I think, they're leafy like) and one of the leafs is turning clear.  I can still see the veins and a vauge outline of the leaf, but it's seethroughable.  Not like something has been eating it, but it's just lost its color.  Any suggestions?  I'm getting ready to add a Co2 injector to it as soon as I finish my 3 liter pop bottles.  I have an 80gal if that helps.


                                                                                              Thank you!

                                                                                              Edward

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1113 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/6/2004
                                                                                              Subject: well sad news Butter died :(
                                                                                              yea pretty upset about it. Even a couple of people I told had the
                                                                                              nerve to laugh at me. I understand it was nothing I could done for him
                                                                                              but in a someway I feel like it was my fault. I guess with fish and
                                                                                              as in Butter ( my blue lobster) I will have to get a thicker skin.
                                                                                              Its not like a cat or dog. That I could take to the vet or couldn't
                                                                                              jump in the tank and start giving it mouth to mouth. But he was a
                                                                                              funny little citter and I enjoyed watching him very much. So I just
                                                                                              thought I would tell my fellow fish lovers about my lost, the only
                                                                                              ones who can understand how I felt :( Silly for a women of 36 to cry
                                                                                              for hours or a dead lobster. Sherrie
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1114 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/6/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Plants turning clear?
                                                                                              I don't know what your problem is, but I've had Hygrophilia drop-
                                                                                              back from their bought size, and not quite die, but grow totally
                                                                                              unlike what one would expect from their original size, or pictures in
                                                                                              resource-books, and after a year or two, begin growing so profusely,
                                                                                              they had to be trimmed weekly.
                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                              PS
                                                                                              I'd used Tetra products. Forgot the names, but one was a tab,
                                                                                              used as directed, broken to pieces, and placed around the roots.
                                                                                              While I never used a peat-substrate, I tried Laterite, and noticed no
                                                                                              effect, but a Tetra product that looked like garden loam, I made into
                                                                                              marble-sized mudballs of, and baked them in the oven. (lost track of
                                                                                              the temperature) This served as a substrate.


                                                                                              - In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Sola"
                                                                                              <esola@k...> wrote:
                                                                                              > Hey all, about 5 days ago I bought a few sord plants (I think,
                                                                                              they're leafy like) and one of the leafs is turning clear. I can
                                                                                              still see the veins and a vauge outline of the leaf, but it's
                                                                                              seethroughable. Not like something has been eating it, but it's just
                                                                                              lost its color. Any suggestions? I'm getting ready to add a Co2
                                                                                              injector to it as soon as I finish my 3 liter pop bottles. I have an
                                                                                              80gal if that helps.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Thank you!
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Edward
                                                                                              > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1115 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/7/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: well sad news Butter died :(
                                                                                              Had an equipment prob while at work. Wife didn't notice right away and
                                                                                              lost all my lake tang cichlids among others. Left work as soon as she
                                                                                              saw the prob to scoop deads. We were devestated. I was so upset, when
                                                                                              I got back to work, there was a customer with attitude and I threw her
                                                                                              out after 20 seconds of her complaining. Never threw anyone out of a
                                                                                              petsore I've run before. Her fault, but I don't think I'd have done it
                                                                                              if the fish hadn't just died. Don't be afraid to grieve, we are but
                                                                                              human. RIP Butter.

                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1116 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/7/2004
                                                                                              Subject: sorry
                                                                                              Blank
                                                                                               
                                                                                              I am  so sorry i did not  know  i  was bouncing,  we had  lost our   power for a  few hours.
                                                                                               

                                                                                               

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1117 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/7/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
                                                                                              Does anyone here have info on sponge fliters? Use one? heard about?
                                                                                              Like? dislike?
                                                                                              thanks Sherrie
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1118 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/7/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
                                                                                              i use them when breeding, but that's about it. they're great for that
                                                                                              sort of thing, but in a large tank, i wouldn't use one alone....
                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                              On Mar 8, 2004, at 2:32 AM, freedombell2002 wrote:

                                                                                              > Does anyone here have info on sponge fliters? Use one? heard about?
                                                                                              > Like? dislike?
                                                                                              > thanks Sherrie
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                              >  
                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >  
                                                                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                              web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1119 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/7/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
                                                                                              I've been using Jungle sponge filters for over 10 years. Tetra used to make a hang-on filter that used sponges, and my trickle filter has a large sponge between the sump-pump and the trickle downflow. I know the principle is mechanical and biological, and it works.
                                                                                              Joe P.
                                                                                              > Does anyone here have info on sponge fliters? Use one? heard about?
                                                                                              > Like? dislike?
                                                                                              > thanks Sherrie
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1120 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
                                                                                              I use a Jungle sponge filter inside the 75 gallon tank, and a 20 gallon tank under the tank,in the cabinet, has the large sponge filter between the sump and the trickle downflow. The downflow from the spray-bar flows over a large mass of DLS polyster filter medium. On the sump side of the 20, there's a small filter to catch stuff that could escape the large sponge. I have two cannister filters for chemical and mechanical/biological filtration.
                                                                                              Joe P.
                                                                                              > i use them when breeding, but that's about it. they're great for that
                                                                                              > sort of thing, but in a large tank, i wouldn't use one alone....
                                                                                              > amalthea
                                                                                              > On Mar 8, 2004, at 2:32 AM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > > Does anyone here have info on sponge fliters? Use one? heard about?
                                                                                              > > Like? dislike?
                                                                                              > > thanks Sherrie
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                              > > �
                                                                                              > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              > > �
                                                                                              > > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                              > > Service.
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > >
                                                                                              > http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                              > web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1121 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
                                                                                               
                                                                                               The only tank that I have a sponge filter on is my fry tank.... and I love it.   The tank seems to stay alot cleaner ( could be a coincidence... but of my 5 tanks this one has never had any problems at all...... The flow is alot lighter and softer and my LFS owner said its better for a fry tank as they are not trying to swim as hard against a hard current, which will/can stunt their growth as the harder they swim, the more food they burn off and they grow at a slower rate.
                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                               
                                                                                              Date: 03/08/04 02:33:07
                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sponge fliters ? Use or have info
                                                                                               
                                                                                              Does anyone here have info on sponge fliters? Use one? heard about?
                                                                                              Like? dislike?
                                                                                              thanks Sherrie

                                                                                               
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1122 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite levels to
                                                                                              recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we can see)
                                                                                              snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.

                                                                                              The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he left a
                                                                                              trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)

                                                                                              Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?

                                                                                              Tony
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1123 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              Tony,

                                                                                              Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one of my
                                                                                              external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the garage, it
                                                                                              would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up the
                                                                                              canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I hate to
                                                                                              imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky high and
                                                                                              the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put them in
                                                                                              the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive chlorinated
                                                                                              water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich in snails.
                                                                                              The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are very
                                                                                              sensitive to some medication.

                                                                                              Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia situation?
                                                                                              If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down, then do a
                                                                                              70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy fish.
                                                                                              You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming bacteria
                                                                                              unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them alive.
                                                                                              Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also checked.
                                                                                              If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water change and
                                                                                              start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification bacteria
                                                                                              have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen to show
                                                                                              on scales.

                                                                                              Nim


                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite levels to
                                                                                              >recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we can
                                                                                              >see)
                                                                                              >snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he left a
                                                                                              >trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Tony
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1124 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              Thanks Nim...

                                                                                              I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with them.
                                                                                              They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and they're
                                                                                              still going strong.

                                                                                              Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really trust.

                                                                                              She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't remember the
                                                                                              name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She told me
                                                                                              that the product would probably result in false positive results in all
                                                                                              chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've done are
                                                                                              correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I forget).

                                                                                              In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them another
                                                                                              water sample.

                                                                                              I'll keep you guys posted.

                                                                                              And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails <smile>. I kind
                                                                                              of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.



                                                                                              Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                              > Tony,
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one of my
                                                                                              > external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              > temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the garage, it
                                                                                              > would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up the
                                                                                              > canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I hate to
                                                                                              > imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky high and
                                                                                              > the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put them in
                                                                                              > the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive chlorinated
                                                                                              > water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              > dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich in snails.
                                                                                              > The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are very
                                                                                              > sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia situation?
                                                                                              > If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down, then do a
                                                                                              > 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy fish.
                                                                                              > You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming bacteria
                                                                                              > unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them alive.
                                                                                              > Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also checked.
                                                                                              > If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water change and
                                                                                              > start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification bacteria
                                                                                              > have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen to show
                                                                                              > on scales.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Nim
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite levels to
                                                                                              >>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we can
                                                                                              >>see)
                                                                                              >>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he left a
                                                                                              >>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Tony
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1125 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: film on water
                                                                                              I have a white to clear film on the water in my filter. i was
                                                                                              wondering if any one knows what this is and if it is a bad or harmful
                                                                                              thing. any help would be great.




                                                                                              Eric
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1126 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              it depends on the fish. pest snails are really hardy creatures and can
                                                                                              take a lot of abuse...
                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                              On Mar 8, 2004, at 9:22 AM, tbittick wrote:

                                                                                              > I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite
                                                                                              > levels to
                                                                                              > recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we
                                                                                              > can see)
                                                                                              > snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he
                                                                                              > left a
                                                                                              > trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Tony
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                              web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1127 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45 what? Ppm or
                                                                                              mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check the
                                                                                              nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the Nitrates
                                                                                              can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation, your
                                                                                              nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water change and
                                                                                              you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I suspect they
                                                                                              must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much faster
                                                                                              then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.

                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Thanks Nim...
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with them.
                                                                                              >They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and they're
                                                                                              >still going strong.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really trust.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't remember
                                                                                              >the
                                                                                              >name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She told me
                                                                                              >that the product would probably result in false positive results in all
                                                                                              >chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've done are
                                                                                              >correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                              >forget).
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them another
                                                                                              >water sample.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails <smile>. I kind
                                                                                              >of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >> Tony,
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one of my
                                                                                              >> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              >> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the garage, it
                                                                                              >> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up the
                                                                                              >> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I hate to
                                                                                              >> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky high and
                                                                                              >> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put them
                                                                                              >in
                                                                                              >> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                              >chlorinated
                                                                                              >> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              >> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich in
                                                                                              >snails.
                                                                                              >> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are very
                                                                                              >> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                              >situation?
                                                                                              >> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down, then do a
                                                                                              >> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy fish.
                                                                                              >> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming bacteria
                                                                                              >> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them
                                                                                              >alive.
                                                                                              >> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also
                                                                                              >checked.
                                                                                              >> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water change and
                                                                                              >> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification bacteria
                                                                                              >> have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen to
                                                                                              >show
                                                                                              >> on scales.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Nim
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite levels
                                                                                              >to
                                                                                              >>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we can
                                                                                              >>>see)
                                                                                              >>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he left
                                                                                              >a
                                                                                              >>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1128 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              I've been advised AGAINST water changes with high nitrites. I've been told
                                                                                              that would be bad for the entire cycle.

                                                                                              I'm probably going to take a water sample in Wednesday or so and have it
                                                                                              tested for all three. We'll see what happens then.

                                                                                              Tony

                                                                                              Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                              > Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45 what? Ppm or
                                                                                              > mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check the
                                                                                              > nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the Nitrates
                                                                                              > can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation, your
                                                                                              > nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water change and
                                                                                              > you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I suspect they
                                                                                              > must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much faster
                                                                                              > then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Nim
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                              >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Thanks Nim...
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with them.
                                                                                              >>They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and they're
                                                                                              >>still going strong.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really trust.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't remember
                                                                                              >>the
                                                                                              >>name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She told me
                                                                                              >>that the product would probably result in false positive results in all
                                                                                              >>chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've done are
                                                                                              >>correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                              >>forget).
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them another
                                                                                              >>water sample.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails <smile>. I kind
                                                                                              >>of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>> Tony,
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one of my
                                                                                              >>> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              >>> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the garage, it
                                                                                              >>> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up the
                                                                                              >>> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I hate to
                                                                                              >>> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky high and
                                                                                              >>> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put them
                                                                                              >>in
                                                                                              >>> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                              >>chlorinated
                                                                                              >>> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              >>> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich in
                                                                                              >>snails.
                                                                                              >>> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are very
                                                                                              >>> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                              >>situation?
                                                                                              >>> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down, then do a
                                                                                              >>> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy fish.
                                                                                              >>> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming bacteria
                                                                                              >>> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them
                                                                                              >>alive.
                                                                                              >>> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also
                                                                                              >>checked.
                                                                                              >>> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water change and
                                                                                              >>> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification bacteria
                                                                                              >>> have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen to
                                                                                              >>show
                                                                                              >>> on scales.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite levels
                                                                                              >>to
                                                                                              >>>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we can
                                                                                              >>>>see)
                                                                                              >>>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he left
                                                                                              >>a
                                                                                              >>>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1129 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              One of the people who advised against a water change must have been myself
                                                                                              :P. but with 0.45 of something as nitrite reading, it does seem that the
                                                                                              cycle is almost complete. But get the water tested and if the Nitrite has
                                                                                              reached the bottom stage, then a water change would be safe. This I am
                                                                                              assuming that it is 0.45ppm if Nitrites.

                                                                                              Let us know the water test results. Hopefully (fingers crossed) the tank
                                                                                              should be ready for some fish now.

                                                                                              Nim


                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 08 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I've been advised AGAINST water changes with high nitrites. I've been told
                                                                                              >that would be bad for the entire cycle.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I'm probably going to take a water sample in Wednesday or so and have it
                                                                                              >tested for all three. We'll see what happens then.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Tony
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >> Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45 what? Ppm
                                                                                              >or
                                                                                              >> mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check the
                                                                                              >> nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the
                                                                                              >Nitrates
                                                                                              >> can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation, your
                                                                                              >> nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water change
                                                                                              >and
                                                                                              >> you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I suspect they
                                                                                              >> must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much faster
                                                                                              >> then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Nim
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                              >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Thanks Nim...
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with them.
                                                                                              >>>They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and they're
                                                                                              >>>still going strong.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really
                                                                                              >trust.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't remember
                                                                                              >>>the
                                                                                              >>>name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She told
                                                                                              >me
                                                                                              >>>that the product would probably result in false positive results in all
                                                                                              >>>chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've done are
                                                                                              >>>correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                              >>>forget).
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them another
                                                                                              >>>water sample.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails <smile>. I
                                                                                              >kind
                                                                                              >>>of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>> Tony,
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one of my
                                                                                              >>>> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              >>>> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the garage,
                                                                                              >it
                                                                                              >>>> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up the
                                                                                              >>>> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I hate to
                                                                                              >>>> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky high
                                                                                              >and
                                                                                              >>>> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put them
                                                                                              >>>in
                                                                                              >>>> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                              >>>chlorinated
                                                                                              >>>> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              >>>> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich in
                                                                                              >>>snails.
                                                                                              >>>> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are very
                                                                                              >>>> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                              >>>situation?
                                                                                              >>>> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down, then do
                                                                                              >a
                                                                                              >>>> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy
                                                                                              >fish.
                                                                                              >>>> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming
                                                                                              >bacteria
                                                                                              >>>> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them
                                                                                              >>>alive.
                                                                                              >>>> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also
                                                                                              >>>checked.
                                                                                              >>>> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water change
                                                                                              >and
                                                                                              >>>> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification
                                                                                              >bacteria
                                                                                              >>>> have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen to
                                                                                              >>>show
                                                                                              >>>> on scales.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite
                                                                                              >levels
                                                                                              >>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we can
                                                                                              >>>>>see)
                                                                                              >>>>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he
                                                                                              >left
                                                                                              >>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1130 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: freshwater crabs
                                                                                              Anybody have any experience with these? I've seen them in several different
                                                                                              stores and think they look really cool. Are they safe in community tanks? My
                                                                                              daughter and I have seen them a couple of times and one of them was eating a
                                                                                              dead fish. I wasn't clear as to whether it might have caught and killed this
                                                                                              fish or if it was scavenging.

                                                                                              Tony
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1131 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              Thanks Nim. You're help has been much appreciated. I'll also double check on
                                                                                              the bacteria product I was told to use...


                                                                                              Tony


                                                                                              Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                              > One of the people who advised against a water change must have been myself
                                                                                              > :P. but with 0.45 of something as nitrite reading, it does seem that the
                                                                                              > cycle is almost complete. But get the water tested and if the Nitrite has
                                                                                              > reached the bottom stage, then a water change would be safe. This I am
                                                                                              > assuming that it is 0.45ppm if Nitrites.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Let us know the water test results. Hopefully (fingers crossed) the tank
                                                                                              > should be ready for some fish now.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Nim
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                              >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>I've been advised AGAINST water changes with high nitrites. I've been told
                                                                                              >>that would be bad for the entire cycle.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>I'm probably going to take a water sample in Wednesday or so and have it
                                                                                              >>tested for all three. We'll see what happens then.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Tony
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>> Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45 what? Ppm
                                                                                              >>or
                                                                                              >>> mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check the
                                                                                              >>> nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the
                                                                                              >>Nitrates
                                                                                              >>> can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation, your
                                                                                              >>> nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water change
                                                                                              >>and
                                                                                              >>> you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I suspect they
                                                                                              >>> must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much faster
                                                                                              >>> then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                              >>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Thanks Nim...
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with them.
                                                                                              >>>>They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and they're
                                                                                              >>>>still going strong.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really
                                                                                              >>trust.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't remember
                                                                                              >>>>the
                                                                                              >>>>name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She told
                                                                                              >>me
                                                                                              >>>>that the product would probably result in false positive results in all
                                                                                              >>>>chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've done are
                                                                                              >>>>correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                              >>>>forget).
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them another
                                                                                              >>>>water sample.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails <smile>. I
                                                                                              >>kind
                                                                                              >>>>of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Tony,
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one of my
                                                                                              >>>>> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              >>>>> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the garage,
                                                                                              >>it
                                                                                              >>>>> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up the
                                                                                              >>>>> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I hate to
                                                                                              >>>>> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky high
                                                                                              >>and
                                                                                              >>>>> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put them
                                                                                              >>>>in
                                                                                              >>>>> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                              >>>>chlorinated
                                                                                              >>>>> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              >>>>> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich in
                                                                                              >>>>snails.
                                                                                              >>>>> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are very
                                                                                              >>>>> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                              >>>>situation?
                                                                                              >>>>> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down, then do
                                                                                              >>a
                                                                                              >>>>> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy
                                                                                              >>fish.
                                                                                              >>>>> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming
                                                                                              >>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them
                                                                                              >>>>alive.
                                                                                              >>>>> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also
                                                                                              >>>>checked.
                                                                                              >>>>> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water change
                                                                                              >>and
                                                                                              >>>>> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification
                                                                                              >>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>> have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen to
                                                                                              >>>>show
                                                                                              >>>>> on scales.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite
                                                                                              >>levels
                                                                                              >>>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we can
                                                                                              >>>>>>see)
                                                                                              >>>>>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he
                                                                                              >>left
                                                                                              >>>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1132 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                              Tony,

                                                                                              Long time ago in India, I had caught wild freshwater crabs from a stream.
                                                                                              Though they were not able to catch fast enough fish, but slow fish and even
                                                                                              things like plecs and corys were badly harmed by them. There are some crabs
                                                                                              that are safe for fish but id think twice(maybe thrice) before getting one
                                                                                              of those critters in a tank with any fish. If the crab was eating a dead
                                                                                              fish, I see no reason why it cannot catch and kill a live one. The ones I
                                                                                              had vere omnivorous and destroyed my goldfish tail as well as my plants. The
                                                                                              size of the goldfish did not deter it from clinging onto its flowing tail
                                                                                              and reducing it to shreds. It was atleast 5 times bigger in length.

                                                                                              But if you have things like barbs and tetras(not neons or cardinals), they
                                                                                              should be able take care of themselves against the crabs. Many amphibious
                                                                                              crabs are also sold as aquatic crabs in the market.

                                                                                              Not a crab keeper so maybe I could be wrong on this.

                                                                                              Nim


                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 08 March 2004 16:48
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] freshwater crabs
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Anybody have any experience with these? I've seen them in several different
                                                                                              >stores and think they look really cool. Are they safe in community tanks?
                                                                                              >My
                                                                                              >daughter and I have seen them a couple of times and one of them was eating
                                                                                              >a
                                                                                              >dead fish. I wasn't clear as to whether it might have caught and killed
                                                                                              >this
                                                                                              >fish or if it was scavenging.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Tony
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1133 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              Bacteria products are all very dicey. Anything just kept on the shelf and
                                                                                              not in a refrigerator is dead or it is not bacteria at all. These are mostly
                                                                                              enzymes that promote bacterial growth and/or help breakdown waste faster to
                                                                                              provide the bacteria with nutrients hence speeding up the cycle. At the
                                                                                              stage you are in, don't go for any product not refrigerated as it will not
                                                                                              help in any way. Confirm on the lable if it says bactozyme or "zyme" in it.
                                                                                              It is just an enzyme to help develop bacteria which you already have.

                                                                                              Nim


                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 08 March 2004 16:51
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Thanks Nim. You're help has been much appreciated. I'll also double check
                                                                                              >on
                                                                                              >the bacteria product I was told to use...
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Tony
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >> One of the people who advised against a water change must have been
                                                                                              >myself
                                                                                              >> :P. but with 0.45 of something as nitrite reading, it does seem that the
                                                                                              >> cycle is almost complete. But get the water tested and if the Nitrite has
                                                                                              >> reached the bottom stage, then a water change would be safe. This I am
                                                                                              >> assuming that it is 0.45ppm if Nitrites.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Let us know the water test results. Hopefully (fingers crossed) the tank
                                                                                              >> should be ready for some fish now.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Nim
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                              >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>I've been advised AGAINST water changes with high nitrites. I've been
                                                                                              >told
                                                                                              >>>that would be bad for the entire cycle.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>I'm probably going to take a water sample in Wednesday or so and have it
                                                                                              >>>tested for all three. We'll see what happens then.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>> Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45 what?
                                                                                              >Ppm
                                                                                              >>>or
                                                                                              >>>> mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check the
                                                                                              >>>> nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the
                                                                                              >>>Nitrates
                                                                                              >>>> can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation, your
                                                                                              >>>> nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water change
                                                                                              >>>and
                                                                                              >>>> you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I suspect
                                                                                              >they
                                                                                              >>>> must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much
                                                                                              >faster
                                                                                              >>>> then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                              >>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Thanks Nim...
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with
                                                                                              >them.
                                                                                              >>>>>They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and
                                                                                              >they're
                                                                                              >>>>>still going strong.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really
                                                                                              >>>trust.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't
                                                                                              >remember
                                                                                              >>>>>the
                                                                                              >>>>>name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She
                                                                                              >told
                                                                                              >>>me
                                                                                              >>>>>that the product would probably result in false positive results in all
                                                                                              >>>>>chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've done
                                                                                              >are
                                                                                              >>>>>correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                              >>>>>forget).
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them
                                                                                              >another
                                                                                              >>>>>water sample.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails <smile>. I
                                                                                              >>>kind
                                                                                              >>>>>of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>> Tony,
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one of
                                                                                              >my
                                                                                              >>>>>> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              >>>>>> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the garage,
                                                                                              >>>it
                                                                                              >>>>>> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up the
                                                                                              >>>>>> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I hate
                                                                                              >to
                                                                                              >>>>>> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky high
                                                                                              >>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put
                                                                                              >them
                                                                                              >>>>>in
                                                                                              >>>>>> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                              >>>>>chlorinated
                                                                                              >>>>>> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              >>>>>> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich in
                                                                                              >>>>>snails.
                                                                                              >>>>>> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are very
                                                                                              >>>>>> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                              >>>>>situation?
                                                                                              >>>>>> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down, then
                                                                                              >do
                                                                                              >>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy
                                                                                              >>>fish.
                                                                                              >>>>>> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming
                                                                                              >>>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>>> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them
                                                                                              >>>>>alive.
                                                                                              >>>>>> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also
                                                                                              >>>>>checked.
                                                                                              >>>>>> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water change
                                                                                              >>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification
                                                                                              >>>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>>> have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen
                                                                                              >to
                                                                                              >>>>>show
                                                                                              >>>>>> on scales.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite
                                                                                              >>>levels
                                                                                              >>>>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we
                                                                                              >can
                                                                                              >>>>>>>see)
                                                                                              >>>>>>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he
                                                                                              >>>left
                                                                                              >>>>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1134 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              I brought this very subject up with the LFS before purchasing. The woman
                                                                                              I've been working with said she was familiar with what I was talking about
                                                                                              but that she'd had excellent success with the product she was recommending.
                                                                                              She's been pretty much on target with everything she's said to date so until
                                                                                              something she says proves false I'm happy to follow her lead.

                                                                                              I will keep you posted on the name of the product and its success.

                                                                                              Tony

                                                                                              Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                              > Bacteria products are all very dicey. Anything just kept on the shelf and
                                                                                              > not in a refrigerator is dead or it is not bacteria at all. These are mostly
                                                                                              > enzymes that promote bacterial growth and/or help breakdown waste faster to
                                                                                              > provide the bacteria with nutrients hence speeding up the cycle. At the
                                                                                              > stage you are in, don't go for any product not refrigerated as it will not
                                                                                              > help in any way. Confirm on the lable if it says bactozyme or "zyme" in it.
                                                                                              > It is just an enzyme to help develop bacteria which you already have.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Nim
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:51
                                                                                              >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Thanks Nim. You're help has been much appreciated. I'll also double check
                                                                                              >>on
                                                                                              >>the bacteria product I was told to use...
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Tony
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>> One of the people who advised against a water change must have been
                                                                                              >>myself
                                                                                              >>> :P. but with 0.45 of something as nitrite reading, it does seem that the
                                                                                              >>> cycle is almost complete. But get the water tested and if the Nitrite has
                                                                                              >>> reached the bottom stage, then a water change would be safe. This I am
                                                                                              >>> assuming that it is 0.45ppm if Nitrites.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Let us know the water test results. Hopefully (fingers crossed) the tank
                                                                                              >>> should be ready for some fish now.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                              >>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>I've been advised AGAINST water changes with high nitrites. I've been
                                                                                              >>told
                                                                                              >>>>that would be bad for the entire cycle.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>I'm probably going to take a water sample in Wednesday or so and have it
                                                                                              >>>>tested for all three. We'll see what happens then.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45 what?
                                                                                              >>Ppm
                                                                                              >>>>or
                                                                                              >>>>> mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check the
                                                                                              >>>>> nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the
                                                                                              >>>>Nitrates
                                                                                              >>>>> can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation, your
                                                                                              >>>>> nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water change
                                                                                              >>>>and
                                                                                              >>>>> you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I suspect
                                                                                              >>they
                                                                                              >>>>> must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much
                                                                                              >>faster
                                                                                              >>>>> then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                              >>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Thanks Nim...
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with
                                                                                              >>them.
                                                                                              >>>>>>They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and
                                                                                              >>they're
                                                                                              >>>>>>still going strong.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really
                                                                                              >>>>trust.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't
                                                                                              >>remember
                                                                                              >>>>>>the
                                                                                              >>>>>>name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She
                                                                                              >>told
                                                                                              >>>>me
                                                                                              >>>>>>that the product would probably result in false positive results in all
                                                                                              >>>>>>chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've done
                                                                                              >>are
                                                                                              >>>>>>correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                              >>>>>>forget).
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them
                                                                                              >>another
                                                                                              >>>>>>water sample.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails <smile>. I
                                                                                              >>>>kind
                                                                                              >>>>>>of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>> Tony,
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one of
                                                                                              >>my
                                                                                              >>>>>>> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              >>>>>>> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the garage,
                                                                                              >>>>it
                                                                                              >>>>>>> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up the
                                                                                              >>>>>>> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I hate
                                                                                              >>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky high
                                                                                              >>>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>>> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put
                                                                                              >>them
                                                                                              >>>>>>in
                                                                                              >>>>>>> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                              >>>>>>chlorinated
                                                                                              >>>>>>> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              >>>>>>> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich in
                                                                                              >>>>>>snails.
                                                                                              >>>>>>> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are very
                                                                                              >>>>>>> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                              >>>>>>situation?
                                                                                              >>>>>>> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down, then
                                                                                              >>do
                                                                                              >>>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>>> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy
                                                                                              >>>>fish.
                                                                                              >>>>>>> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming
                                                                                              >>>>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>>>> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them
                                                                                              >>>>>>alive.
                                                                                              >>>>>>> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also
                                                                                              >>>>>>checked.
                                                                                              >>>>>>> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water change
                                                                                              >>>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>>> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification
                                                                                              >>>>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>>>> have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen
                                                                                              >>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>show
                                                                                              >>>>>>> on scales.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite
                                                                                              >>>>levels
                                                                                              >>>>>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we
                                                                                              >>can
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>see)
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he
                                                                                              >>>>left
                                                                                              >>>>>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
                                                                                              > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                                                                              > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
                                                                                              > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
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                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1135 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              Sure, keep us updated :)
                                                                                              It's a good thing to know if something like this works.

                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >Sent: 08 March 2004 17:19
                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I brought this very subject up with the LFS before purchasing. The woman
                                                                                              >I've been working with said she was familiar with what I was talking about
                                                                                              >but that she'd had excellent success with the product she was recommending.
                                                                                              >She's been pretty much on target with everything she's said to date so
                                                                                              >until
                                                                                              >something she says proves false I'm happy to follow her lead.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >I will keep you posted on the name of the product and its success.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Tony
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >> Bacteria products are all very dicey. Anything just kept on the shelf and
                                                                                              >> not in a refrigerator is dead or it is not bacteria at all. These are
                                                                                              >mostly
                                                                                              >> enzymes that promote bacterial growth and/or help breakdown waste faster
                                                                                              >to
                                                                                              >> provide the bacteria with nutrients hence speeding up the cycle. At the
                                                                                              >> stage you are in, don't go for any product not refrigerated as it will
                                                                                              >not
                                                                                              >> help in any way. Confirm on the lable if it says bactozyme or "zyme" in
                                                                                              >it.
                                                                                              >> It is just an enzyme to help develop bacteria which you already have.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Nim
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:51
                                                                                              >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Thanks Nim. You're help has been much appreciated. I'll also double check
                                                                                              >>>on
                                                                                              >>>the bacteria product I was told to use...
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>> One of the people who advised against a water change must have been
                                                                                              >>>myself
                                                                                              >>>> :P. but with 0.45 of something as nitrite reading, it does seem that
                                                                                              >the
                                                                                              >>>> cycle is almost complete. But get the water tested and if the Nitrite
                                                                                              >has
                                                                                              >>>> reached the bottom stage, then a water change would be safe. This I am
                                                                                              >>>> assuming that it is 0.45ppm if Nitrites.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>> Let us know the water test results. Hopefully (fingers crossed) the
                                                                                              >tank
                                                                                              >>>> should be ready for some fish now.
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                              >>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>I've been advised AGAINST water changes with high nitrites. I've been
                                                                                              >>>told
                                                                                              >>>>>that would be bad for the entire cycle.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>I'm probably going to take a water sample in Wednesday or so and have
                                                                                              >it
                                                                                              >>>>>tested for all three. We'll see what happens then.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>> Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45 what?
                                                                                              >>>Ppm
                                                                                              >>>>>or
                                                                                              >>>>>> mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check the
                                                                                              >>>>>> nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the
                                                                                              >>>>>Nitrates
                                                                                              >>>>>> can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation, your
                                                                                              >>>>>> nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water
                                                                                              >change
                                                                                              >>>>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>> you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I suspect
                                                                                              >>>they
                                                                                              >>>>>> must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much
                                                                                              >>>faster
                                                                                              >>>>>> then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                              >>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Thanks Nim...
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with
                                                                                              >>>them.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and
                                                                                              >>>they're
                                                                                              >>>>>>>still going strong.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really
                                                                                              >>>>>trust.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't
                                                                                              >>>remember
                                                                                              >>>>>>>the
                                                                                              >>>>>>>name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She
                                                                                              >>>told
                                                                                              >>>>>me
                                                                                              >>>>>>>that the product would probably result in false positive results in
                                                                                              >all
                                                                                              >>>>>>>chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've done
                                                                                              >>>are
                                                                                              >>>>>>>correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                              >>>>>>>forget).
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them
                                                                                              >>>another
                                                                                              >>>>>>>water sample.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails <smile>.
                                                                                              >I
                                                                                              >>>>>kind
                                                                                              >>>>>>>of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> Tony,
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one
                                                                                              >of
                                                                                              >>>my
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the
                                                                                              >garage,
                                                                                              >>>>>it
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up
                                                                                              >the
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I
                                                                                              >hate
                                                                                              >>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky
                                                                                              >high
                                                                                              >>>>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put
                                                                                              >>>them
                                                                                              >>>>>>>in
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                              >>>>>>>chlorinated
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich
                                                                                              >in
                                                                                              >>>>>>>snails.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are
                                                                                              >very
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                              >>>>>>>situation?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down,
                                                                                              >then
                                                                                              >>>do
                                                                                              >>>>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy
                                                                                              >>>>>fish.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming
                                                                                              >>>>>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them
                                                                                              >>>>>>>alive.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also
                                                                                              >>>>>>>checked.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water
                                                                                              >change
                                                                                              >>>>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification
                                                                                              >>>>>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen
                                                                                              >>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>>show
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> on scales.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite
                                                                                              >>>>>levels
                                                                                              >>>>>>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we
                                                                                              >>>can
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>see)
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he
                                                                                              >>>>>left
                                                                                              >>>>>>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1136 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                              Thanks Nim...

                                                                                              My daughter, after seeing the feasting crab, is pretty dead set against it
                                                                                              so it sure would be a hard sell... I'm kind of with you. I figured if the
                                                                                              thing was eating a fish, it might just have killed the fish.

                                                                                              Tony

                                                                                              Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                              > Tony,
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Long time ago in India, I had caught wild freshwater crabs from a stream.
                                                                                              > Though they were not able to catch fast enough fish, but slow fish and even
                                                                                              > things like plecs and corys were badly harmed by them. There are some crabs
                                                                                              > that are safe for fish but id think twice(maybe thrice) before getting one
                                                                                              > of those critters in a tank with any fish. If the crab was eating a dead
                                                                                              > fish, I see no reason why it cannot catch and kill a live one. The ones I
                                                                                              > had vere omnivorous and destroyed my goldfish tail as well as my plants. The
                                                                                              > size of the goldfish did not deter it from clinging onto its flowing tail
                                                                                              > and reducing it to shreds. It was atleast 5 times bigger in length.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > But if you have things like barbs and tetras(not neons or cardinals), they
                                                                                              > should be able take care of themselves against the crabs. Many amphibious
                                                                                              > crabs are also sold as aquatic crabs in the market.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Not a crab keeper so maybe I could be wrong on this.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Nim
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:48
                                                                                              >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] freshwater crabs
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Anybody have any experience with these? I've seen them in several different
                                                                                              >>stores and think they look really cool. Are they safe in community tanks?
                                                                                              >>My
                                                                                              >>daughter and I have seen them a couple of times and one of them was eating
                                                                                              >>a
                                                                                              >>dead fish. I wasn't clear as to whether it might have caught and killed
                                                                                              >>this
                                                                                              >>fish or if it was scavenging.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Tony
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
                                                                                              > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                                                                              > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
                                                                                              > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                                                                              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ctpplB/TM
                                                                                              > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1137 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              Hey Nim... aren't you up WAY past your bed time <grin>!

                                                                                              Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                              > Sure, keep us updated :)
                                                                                              > It's a good thing to know if something like this works.
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>Sent: 08 March 2004 17:19
                                                                                              >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>I brought this very subject up with the LFS before purchasing. The woman
                                                                                              >>I've been working with said she was familiar with what I was talking about
                                                                                              >>but that she'd had excellent success with the product she was recommending.
                                                                                              >>She's been pretty much on target with everything she's said to date so
                                                                                              >>until
                                                                                              >>something she says proves false I'm happy to follow her lead.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>I will keep you posted on the name of the product and its success.
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Tony
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>> Bacteria products are all very dicey. Anything just kept on the shelf and
                                                                                              >>> not in a refrigerator is dead or it is not bacteria at all. These are
                                                                                              >>mostly
                                                                                              >>> enzymes that promote bacterial growth and/or help breakdown waste faster
                                                                                              >>to
                                                                                              >>> provide the bacteria with nutrients hence speeding up the cycle. At the
                                                                                              >>> stage you are in, don't go for any product not refrigerated as it will
                                                                                              >>not
                                                                                              >>> help in any way. Confirm on the lable if it says bactozyme or "zyme" in
                                                                                              >>it.
                                                                                              >>> It is just an enzyme to help develop bacteria which you already have.
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:51
                                                                                              >>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Thanks Nim. You're help has been much appreciated. I'll also double check
                                                                                              >>>>on
                                                                                              >>>>the bacteria product I was told to use...
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> One of the people who advised against a water change must have been
                                                                                              >>>>myself
                                                                                              >>>>> :P. but with 0.45 of something as nitrite reading, it does seem that
                                                                                              >>the
                                                                                              >>>>> cycle is almost complete. But get the water tested and if the Nitrite
                                                                                              >>has
                                                                                              >>>>> reached the bottom stage, then a water change would be safe. This I am
                                                                                              >>>>> assuming that it is 0.45ppm if Nitrites.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Let us know the water test results. Hopefully (fingers crossed) the
                                                                                              >>tank
                                                                                              >>>>> should be ready for some fish now.
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                              >>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>I've been advised AGAINST water changes with high nitrites. I've been
                                                                                              >>>>told
                                                                                              >>>>>>that would be bad for the entire cycle.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>I'm probably going to take a water sample in Wednesday or so and have
                                                                                              >>it
                                                                                              >>>>>>tested for all three. We'll see what happens then.
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>> Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45 what?
                                                                                              >>>>Ppm
                                                                                              >>>>>>or
                                                                                              >>>>>>> mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check the
                                                                                              >>>>>>> nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the
                                                                                              >>>>>>Nitrates
                                                                                              >>>>>>> can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation, your
                                                                                              >>>>>>> nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water
                                                                                              >>change
                                                                                              >>>>>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>>> you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I suspect
                                                                                              >>>>they
                                                                                              >>>>>>> must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much
                                                                                              >>>>faster
                                                                                              >>>>>>> then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Thanks Nim...
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with
                                                                                              >>>>them.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and
                                                                                              >>>>they're
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>still going strong.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really
                                                                                              >>>>>>trust.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't
                                                                                              >>>>remember
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>the
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She
                                                                                              >>>>told
                                                                                              >>>>>>me
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>that the product would probably result in false positive results in
                                                                                              >>all
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've done
                                                                                              >>>>are
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>forget).
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them
                                                                                              >>>>another
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>water sample.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails <smile>.
                                                                                              >>I
                                                                                              >>>>>>kind
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> Tony,
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one
                                                                                              >>of
                                                                                              >>>>my
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the
                                                                                              >>garage,
                                                                                              >>>>>>it
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up
                                                                                              >>the
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I
                                                                                              >>hate
                                                                                              >>>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky
                                                                                              >>high
                                                                                              >>>>>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I put
                                                                                              >>>>them
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>in
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>chlorinated
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich
                                                                                              >>in
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>snails.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are
                                                                                              >>very
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>situation?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down,
                                                                                              >>then
                                                                                              >>>>do
                                                                                              >>>>>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some hardy
                                                                                              >>>>>>fish.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming
                                                                                              >>>>>>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep them
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>alive.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates also
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>checked.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water
                                                                                              >>change
                                                                                              >>>>>>and
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification
                                                                                              >>>>>>bacteria
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> have been established, but the peat just released too much nitrogen
                                                                                              >>>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>show
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> on scales.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> Nim
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite
                                                                                              >>>>>>levels
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>to
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that we
                                                                                              >>>>can
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>see)
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new plants.
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because he
                                                                                              >>>>>>left
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>a
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>Tony
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >>
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
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                                                                                              >
                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              >
                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1138 From: amalthea x Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                              Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                Thanks Nim...

                                                                                                My daughter, after seeing the feasting crab, is pretty dead set against it
                                                                                                so it sure would be a hard sell... I'm kind of with you. I figured if the
                                                                                                thing was eating a fish, it might just have killed the fish.

                                                                                                Tony

                                                                                                Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                                > Tony,
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Long time ago in India, I had caught wild freshwater crabs from a stream.
                                                                                                > Though they were not able to catch fast enough fish, but slow fish and even
                                                                                                > things like plecs and corys were badly harmed by them. There are some crabs
                                                                                                > that are safe for fish but id think twice(maybe thrice) before getting one
                                                                                                > of those critters in a tank with any fish. If the crab was eating a dead
                                                                                                > fish, I see no reason why it cannot catch and kill a live one. The ones I
                                                                                                > had vere omnivorous and destroyed my goldfish tail as well as my plants. The
                                                                                                > size of the goldfish did not deter it from clinging onto its flowing tail
                                                                                                > and reducing it to shreds. It was atleast 5 times bigger in length.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > But if you have things like barbs and tetras(not neons or cardinals), they
                                                                                                > should be able take care of themselves against the crabs. Many amphibious
                                                                                                > crabs are also sold as aquatic crabs in the market.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Not a crab keeper so maybe I could be wrong on this.
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                >>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:48
                                                                                                >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] freshwater crabs
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >>Anybody have any experience with these? I've seen them in several different
                                                                                                >>stores and think they look really cool. Are they safe in community tanks?
                                                                                                >>My
                                                                                                >>daughter and I have seen them a couple of times and one of them was eating
                                                                                                >>a
                                                                                                >>dead fish. I wasn't clear as to whether it might have caught and killed
                                                                                                >>this
                                                                                                >>fish or if it was scavenging.
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >>Tony
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >>

                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                                                                                                >

                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                >

                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1139 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                                You know the whole "place to go" thing was something I thought, but I didn't
                                                                                                see any for these crabs and I saw them at two or three different stores...
                                                                                                all of them like ten gallon tanks filled to the rim and no apparent access
                                                                                                up or out.

                                                                                                Different type of crab?

                                                                                                T


                                                                                                amalthea x writes:

                                                                                                > don't forget with those crabs you need a place for them to get up out of the water, but it has to be escape free, which can be a tough balance!
                                                                                                > it's likely the crab was just scavanging. my crayfish loves it when someone dies so he can eat them, he's not great at catching anyone and it's 6" long.
                                                                                                > amalthea
                                                                                                > On Monday, March 08, 2004, at 12:32PM, tbittick <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                >><<Original Attached>>
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
                                                                                                > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                                                                                > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
                                                                                                > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                                                                                > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ctpplB/TM
                                                                                                > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                >
                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1140 From: amalthea x Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                  You know the whole "place to go" thing was something I thought, but I didn't
                                                                                                  see any for these crabs and I saw them at two or three different stores...
                                                                                                  all of them like ten gallon tanks filled to the rim and no apparent access
                                                                                                  up or out.

                                                                                                  Different type of crab?

                                                                                                  T


                                                                                                  amalthea x writes:

                                                                                                  > don't forget with those crabs you need a place for them to get up out of the water, but it has to be escape free, which can be a tough balance!
                                                                                                  > it's likely the crab was just scavanging. my crayfish loves it when someone dies so he can eat them, he's not great at catching anyone and it's 6" long.
                                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                                  > On Monday, March 08, 2004, at 12:32PM, tbittick <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                  >><<Original Attached>>

                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
                                                                                                  > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                                                                                  > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
                                                                                                  > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
                                                                                                  > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/ctpplB/TM
                                                                                                  > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1141 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                                  Glad to hear you say that as it's kind of what I thought.

                                                                                                  T

                                                                                                  amalthea x writes:

                                                                                                  > it could be, or they could just be in less than optimal conditions. pet stores have a high turnover rate for novelty animals, so they don't necessarily give them the perfect living conditions. most if not all freshwater crabs however really enjoy a place to escape the water from time to time...
                                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                                  > On Monday, March 08, 2004, at 01:11PM, tbittick <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                  >><<Original Attached>>
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1142 From: amalthea x Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                  Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                    Glad to hear you say that as it's kind of what I thought.

                                                                                                    T

                                                                                                    amalthea x writes:

                                                                                                    > it could be, or they could just be in less than optimal conditions. pet stores have a high turnover rate for novelty animals, so they don't necessarily give them the perfect living conditions. most if not all freshwater crabs however really enjoy a place to escape the water from time to time...
                                                                                                    > amalthea
                                                                                                    > On Monday, March 08, 2004, at 01:11PM, tbittick <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >><<Original Attached>>

                                                                                                    >

                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >



                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1143 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    Lol Tony, I am in the UK now. So my last mails were still from the office.
                                                                                                    This one is not from home and its just 7pm

                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >Sent: 08 March 2004 17:48
                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Hey Nim... aren't you up WAY past your bed time <grin>!
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >> Sure, keep us updated :)
                                                                                                    >> It's a good thing to know if something like this works.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>Sent: 08 March 2004 17:19
                                                                                                    >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>I brought this very subject up with the LFS before purchasing. The woman
                                                                                                    >>>I've been working with said she was familiar with what I was talking
                                                                                                    >about
                                                                                                    >>>but that she'd had excellent success with the product she was
                                                                                                    >recommending.
                                                                                                    >>>She's been pretty much on target with everything she's said to date so
                                                                                                    >>>until
                                                                                                    >>>something she says proves false I'm happy to follow her lead.
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>I will keep you posted on the name of the product and its success.
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>> Bacteria products are all very dicey. Anything just kept on the shelf
                                                                                                    >and
                                                                                                    >>>> not in a refrigerator is dead or it is not bacteria at all. These are
                                                                                                    >>>mostly
                                                                                                    >>>> enzymes that promote bacterial growth and/or help breakdown waste
                                                                                                    >faster
                                                                                                    >>>to
                                                                                                    >>>> provide the bacteria with nutrients hence speeding up the cycle. At the
                                                                                                    >>>> stage you are in, don't go for any product not refrigerated as it will
                                                                                                    >>>not
                                                                                                    >>>> help in any way. Confirm on the lable if it says bactozyme or "zyme" in
                                                                                                    >>>it.
                                                                                                    >>>> It is just an enzyme to help develop bacteria which you already have.
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>> Nim
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:51
                                                                                                    >>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>Thanks Nim. You're help has been much appreciated. I'll also double
                                                                                                    >check
                                                                                                    >>>>>on
                                                                                                    >>>>>the bacteria product I was told to use...
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>> One of the people who advised against a water change must have been
                                                                                                    >>>>>myself
                                                                                                    >>>>>> :P. but with 0.45 of something as nitrite reading, it does seem that
                                                                                                    >>>the
                                                                                                    >>>>>> cycle is almost complete. But get the water tested and if the Nitrite
                                                                                                    >>>has
                                                                                                    >>>>>> reached the bottom stage, then a water change would be safe. This I
                                                                                                    >am
                                                                                                    >>>>>> assuming that it is 0.45ppm if Nitrites.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>> Let us know the water test results. Hopefully (fingers crossed) the
                                                                                                    >>>tank
                                                                                                    >>>>>> should be ready for some fish now.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>> Nim
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>I've been advised AGAINST water changes with high nitrites. I've been
                                                                                                    >>>>>told
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>that would be bad for the entire cycle.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>I'm probably going to take a water sample in Wednesday or so and have
                                                                                                    >>>it
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>tested for all three. We'll see what happens then.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45
                                                                                                    >what?
                                                                                                    >>>>>Ppm
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>or
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check
                                                                                                    >the
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>Nitrates
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation,
                                                                                                    >your
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water
                                                                                                    >>>change
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>and
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I
                                                                                                    >suspect
                                                                                                    >>>>>they
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much
                                                                                                    >>>>>faster
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> Nim
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>Thanks Nim...
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with
                                                                                                    >>>>>them.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and
                                                                                                    >>>>>they're
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>still going strong.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>trust.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't
                                                                                                    >>>>>remember
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>the
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She
                                                                                                    >>>>>told
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>me
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>that the product would probably result in false positive results in
                                                                                                    >>>all
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've
                                                                                                    >done
                                                                                                    >>>>>are
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>forget).
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them
                                                                                                    >>>>>another
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>water sample.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails
                                                                                                    ><smile>.
                                                                                                    >>>I
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>kind
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> Tony,
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one
                                                                                                    >>>of
                                                                                                    >>>>>my
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the
                                                                                                    >>>garage,
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>it
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up
                                                                                                    >>>the
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I
                                                                                                    >>>hate
                                                                                                    >>>>>to
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky
                                                                                                    >>>high
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>and
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I
                                                                                                    >put
                                                                                                    >>>>>them
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>in
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>chlorinated
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich
                                                                                                    >>>in
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>snails.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are
                                                                                                    >>>very
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>situation?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down,
                                                                                                    >>>then
                                                                                                    >>>>>do
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>a
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some
                                                                                                    >hardy
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>fish.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>bacteria
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep
                                                                                                    >them
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>alive.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates
                                                                                                    >also
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>checked.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water
                                                                                                    >>>change
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>and
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>bacteria
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> have been established, but the peat just released too much
                                                                                                    >nitrogen
                                                                                                    >>>>>to
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>show
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> on scales.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> Nim
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>levels
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>to
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that
                                                                                                    >we
                                                                                                    >>>>>can
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>see)
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new
                                                                                                    >plants.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because
                                                                                                    >he
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>left
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>a
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1144 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    I wondered... we've got locations in the UK so I thought I was on the right
                                                                                                    time schedule. It's just that most of your answers come early morning my
                                                                                                    time...

                                                                                                    Thanks...

                                                                                                    T


                                                                                                    Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                                    > Lol Tony, I am in the UK now. So my last mails were still from the office.
                                                                                                    > This one is not from home and its just 7pm
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>Sent: 08 March 2004 17:48
                                                                                                    >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>Hey Nim... aren't you up WAY past your bed time <grin>!
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>> Sure, keep us updated :)
                                                                                                    >>> It's a good thing to know if something like this works.
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 17:19
                                                                                                    >>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>I brought this very subject up with the LFS before purchasing. The woman
                                                                                                    >>>>I've been working with said she was familiar with what I was talking
                                                                                                    >>about
                                                                                                    >>>>but that she'd had excellent success with the product she was
                                                                                                    >>recommending.
                                                                                                    >>>>She's been pretty much on target with everything she's said to date so
                                                                                                    >>>>until
                                                                                                    >>>>something she says proves false I'm happy to follow her lead.
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>I will keep you posted on the name of the product and its success.
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>> Bacteria products are all very dicey. Anything just kept on the shelf
                                                                                                    >>and
                                                                                                    >>>>> not in a refrigerator is dead or it is not bacteria at all. These are
                                                                                                    >>>>mostly
                                                                                                    >>>>> enzymes that promote bacterial growth and/or help breakdown waste
                                                                                                    >>faster
                                                                                                    >>>>to
                                                                                                    >>>>> provide the bacteria with nutrients hence speeding up the cycle. At the
                                                                                                    >>>>> stage you are in, don't go for any product not refrigerated as it will
                                                                                                    >>>>not
                                                                                                    >>>>> help in any way. Confirm on the lable if it says bactozyme or "zyme" in
                                                                                                    >>>>it.
                                                                                                    >>>>> It is just an enzyme to help develop bacteria which you already have.
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>> Nim
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:51
                                                                                                    >>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>Thanks Nim. You're help has been much appreciated. I'll also double
                                                                                                    >>check
                                                                                                    >>>>>>on
                                                                                                    >>>>>>the bacteria product I was told to use...
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>> One of the people who advised against a water change must have been
                                                                                                    >>>>>>myself
                                                                                                    >>>>>>> :P. but with 0.45 of something as nitrite reading, it does seem that
                                                                                                    >>>>the
                                                                                                    >>>>>>> cycle is almost complete. But get the water tested and if the Nitrite
                                                                                                    >>>>has
                                                                                                    >>>>>>> reached the bottom stage, then a water change would be safe. This I
                                                                                                    >>am
                                                                                                    >>>>>>> assuming that it is 0.45ppm if Nitrites.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>> Let us know the water test results. Hopefully (fingers crossed) the
                                                                                                    >>>>tank
                                                                                                    >>>>>>> should be ready for some fish now.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>> Nim
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>I've been advised AGAINST water changes with high nitrites. I've been
                                                                                                    >>>>>>told
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>that would be bad for the entire cycle.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>I'm probably going to take a water sample in Wednesday or so and have
                                                                                                    >>>>it
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>tested for all three. We'll see what happens then.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> Tony, if the Nitrite has come down to a measurable amount (0.45
                                                                                                    >>what?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>Ppm
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>or
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> mg/l) then it is a very good sign. Also, it is important to check
                                                                                                    >>the
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> nitrates to see if they are not too high. Now the Nitrite and the
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>Nitrates
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> can be controlled by water changes. I suspect in this situation,
                                                                                                    >>your
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> nitrates now should be at the top of the chart. Do a large water
                                                                                                    >>>>change
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>and
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> you can start adding hardy fish. How are the plants doing? I
                                                                                                    >>suspect
                                                                                                    >>>>>>they
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> must have slowed down a little by now as they consume ammonia much
                                                                                                    >>>>>>faster
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> then they consume nitrates. It is a very normal sign.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> Nim
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:54
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>Thanks Nim...
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>I'm actually working very closely with the LFS. I'm very happy with
                                                                                                    >>>>>>them.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>They were around more than 20 years ago when I first started and
                                                                                                    >>>>>>they're
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>still going strong.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>Their people seem to be top notch and I've honed in on one I really
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>trust.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>She suggested a bacteria product called Bacter something (can't
                                                                                                    >>>>>>remember
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>the
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>name). The application was basically a teaspoon for three days. She
                                                                                                    >>>>>>told
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>me
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>that the product would probably result in false positive results in
                                                                                                    >>>>all
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>chemical tests. I think she was right. If the calculations I've
                                                                                                    >>done
                                                                                                    >>>>>>are
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>correct the Nitrite is down to about .045 (or is should it be .45 I
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>forget).
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>In any event, I'm going to give it a day or so and then take them
                                                                                                    >>>>>>another
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>water sample.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>I'll keep you guys posted.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>And thanks for the info on the cockroaches... I mean snails
                                                                                                    >><smile>.
                                                                                                    >>>>I
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>kind
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>of thought that's what I'd end up hearing.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> Tony,
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> Most snails can survive very harsh conditions. I had a few in one
                                                                                                    >>>>of
                                                                                                    >>>>>>my
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> external filters that survived an entire week in all the muck and
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> temperature reaching down to -5 (though the filter was in the
                                                                                                    >>>>garage,
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>it
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> would not have frozen for sure) and after a week when I opened up
                                                                                                    >>>>the
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> canister, I could see no dead snail. All were alive and well. I
                                                                                                    >>>>hate
                                                                                                    >>>>>>to
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> imagine the nitrate levels in the filter would have rocketed sky
                                                                                                    >>>>high
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>and
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> the water quality was poisonous for any fish but the snails. I
                                                                                                    >>put
                                                                                                    >>>>>>them
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>in
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> the fry tank after a rinse and they survived. They even survive
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>chlorinated
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> water. the water butt that I use for water change gets a dose of
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> dechlorinator after 2-3 days of being filled and it is still rich
                                                                                                    >>>>in
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>snails.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> The buggers don't die at all. Apple snails on the other hand are
                                                                                                    >>>>very
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> sensitive to some medication.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> Have the nitrites started to come down yet? What is the ammonia
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>situation?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> If there is no ammonia and nitrates are not really coming down,
                                                                                                    >>>>then
                                                                                                    >>>>>>do
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>a
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> 70% water change, add Biospira if possible and introduce some
                                                                                                    >>hardy
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>fish.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> You don't want to wait too long and starve the ammonia consuming
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>bacteria
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> unless the peat in the gravel is still leeching enough to keep
                                                                                                    >>them
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>alive.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> Did you get the water tested at a fish store? Get the Nitrates
                                                                                                    >>also
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>checked.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> If there are too much nitrates then you can do a 70-80% water
                                                                                                    >>>>change
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>and
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> start adding in fish as this will mean that the de nitrification
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>bacteria
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> have been established, but the peat just released too much
                                                                                                    >>nitrogen
                                                                                                    >>>>>>to
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>show
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> on scales.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> Nim
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: 08 March 2004 14:23
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snail in a coal mine?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>I still don't have any fish in my tank as I'm waiting for Nitrite
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>levels
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>to
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>recede, but I noticed last night that we have at least one (that
                                                                                                    >>we
                                                                                                    >>>>>>can
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>see)
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>snail in the tank. Likely hitched a ride on one of our new
                                                                                                    >>plants.
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>The little bugger is really small and I only noticed him because
                                                                                                    >>he
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>left
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>a
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>trail on the glass. (He BETTER clean that up!)
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway, I'm wondering, if he can survive could fish?
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>
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                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
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                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>>
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                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
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                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>>
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                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
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                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>>
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                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>>>>
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                                                                                                    >>>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                    >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>
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                                                                                                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
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                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1145 From: tbittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                                    These were all pretty small, about silver dollar size for the biggest, red,
                                                                                                    and for the most part same sized claws. Yes, I believe a couple of the
                                                                                                    places I saw them were Petco and surprisingly Meijers.

                                                                                                    Tony




                                                                                                    amalthea x writes:

                                                                                                    > what did the crabs look like? i'm a bit curious. and i have to say that in my local petland and petco, i've seen crabs completely submerged with no escape areas, however in the two mom and pop that i go to for quality animals instead of good prices on supplies, all of the crabs have escape areas. they actually keep them in those little plastic containers with tops on them and they seem really happy...
                                                                                                    > amalthea
                                                                                                    > On Monday, March 08, 2004, at 01:31PM, tbittick <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >><<Original Attached>>
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1146 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: film on water
                                                                                                     Is the film on the WATER, or on the parts of the filter?? If its on the parts of the filter, it COULD be hard water stains, depending on your local water conditions. (I had to go buy one of those algae remover sponges recently to take care of mine ... our local water is hard and leaves horrible crusty white stains all over everything.)
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    If it's hard water stains, it would show up in a water condition test, if the test will test for hardness. The strips I use do, so I'm already aware of what our stains are. (get them in the cat's water bowl, too.)
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    If it's on the water itself, and not the filter parts, then I'm not sure what it could be.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Date: 03/08/04 11:18:51
                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] film on water
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I have a white to clear film on the water in my filter. i was
                                                                                                    wondering if any one knows what this is and if it is a bad or harmful
                                                                                                    thing. any help would be great.
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1147 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                                    The Crab you mention could be a Red claw crab. Now, experiences on the net
                                                                                                    say it is safe enough for fish, but not my Fish store. Especially if you
                                                                                                    have slow and dumb fish that offer themselves as food.

                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/elgecko1989/crab.html
                                                                                                    http://www.centralpets.com/pages/critterpages/fish/freshwater_inverts/FWI467
                                                                                                    3.shtml

                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >Sent: 08 March 2004 18:40
                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >These were all pretty small, about silver dollar size for the biggest, red,
                                                                                                    >and for the most part same sized claws. Yes, I believe a couple of the
                                                                                                    >places I saw them were Petco and surprisingly Meijers.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Tony
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >amalthea x writes:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >> what did the crabs look like? i'm a bit curious. and i have to say that
                                                                                                    >in my local petland and petco, i've seen crabs completely submerged with no
                                                                                                    >escape areas, however in the two mom and pop that i go to for quality
                                                                                                    >animals instead of good prices on supplies, all of the crabs have escape
                                                                                                    >areas. they actually keep them in those little plastic containers with tops
                                                                                                    >on them and they seem really happy...
                                                                                                    >> amalthea
                                                                                                    >> On Monday, March 08, 2004, at 01:31PM, tbittick <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                    >wrote:
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>><<Original Attached>>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1148 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Mollies and guppies
                                                                                                    Blank
                                                                                                    Can   mollies and guppies mate together?
                                                                                                    crys
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1149 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mollies and guppies
                                                                                                    Blank
                                                                                                    Yes, but it does not happen very often.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Mike
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    From: CRYS NOLAN
                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:29 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mollies and guppies

                                                                                                    Can   mollies and guppies mate together?
                                                                                                    crys
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1150 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mollies and guppies
                                                                                                    Blank

                                                                                                    Considering the nature of guppies, they may try to do so but I doubt it will be successful.

                                                                                                     


                                                                                                    From: CRYS NOLAN [mailto:clnolan@...]
                                                                                                    Sent: 08 March 2004 20:29
                                                                                                    To: FreshWaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mollies and guppies

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Can   mollies and guppies mate together?

                                                                                                    crys

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                     


                                                                                                     

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1151 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mollies and guppies
                                                                                                    No. That'd be like a dog and a cat breeding together. Mollies can breed with different types of mollies, for example a black mollie can breed with a multi colored Fancy mollie, or the Lyretail. But Mollies and guppies together? Nope. 
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Date: 03/08/04 15:32:52
                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mollies and guppies
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Can   mollies and guppies mate together?
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1152 From: Walter Cain Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mollies and guppies
                                                                                                    According to the research I have read they can breed but it is very raw.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    walter

                                                                                                    Erin Vankouwenberg <celticmommy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    No. That'd be like a dog and a cat breeding together. Mollies can breed with different types of mollies, for example a black mollie can breed with a multi colored Fancy mollie, or the Lyretail. But Mollies and guppies together? Nope. 
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Date: 03/08/04 15:32:52
                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mollies and guppies
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Can   mollies and guppies mate together?


                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                    Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster.

                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1153 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: timers
                                                                                                    I'm like to get my hood lights set on an automatic timer. Problem is I
                                                                                                    don't want to buy two of them and I haven't been able to find a timer that
                                                                                                    will accept two plugs.

                                                                                                    In a copy of Tropical Fish Hobbyist I saw an advertisement for a surge
                                                                                                    protector that includes timers... anybody know what I'm talking about and
                                                                                                    or where I could get one?

                                                                                                    Tony
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1154 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: added bacteria
                                                                                                    The bacteria additive the LFS told me to add to my tank to help with the
                                                                                                    nitrite is called Bacter Vital. My readings are still high so she suggested
                                                                                                    I run the treatment for another three days... hoping it works.


                                                                                                    Tony
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1155 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: timers
                                                                                                    There are duplex and triplex plugs that plug into single plugs, and give you two or three more outlets.
                                                                                                    Joe P.
                                                                                                    > I'm like to get my hood lights set on an automatic timer. Problem is I
                                                                                                    > don't want to buy two of them and I haven't been able to find a timer that
                                                                                                    > will accept two plugs.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > In a copy of Tropical Fish Hobbyist I saw an advertisement for a surge
                                                                                                    > protector that includes timers... anybody know what I'm talking about and
                                                                                                    > or where I could get one?
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Tony
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1156 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: timers
                                                                                                    Do you mean these items exist with timers, or that you plug one of them
                                                                                                    into the timer. I guess that would make the most sense.

                                                                                                    I'd still like to see one of these power bars if anybody knows where to
                                                                                                    find them.

                                                                                                    Tony



                                                                                                    At 08:23 PM 3/8/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                    > There are duplex and triplex plugs that plug into single plugs, and
                                                                                                    > give you two or three more outlets.
                                                                                                    > Joe P.
                                                                                                    > > I'm like to get my hood lights set on an automatic timer. Problem is I
                                                                                                    > > don't want to buy two of them and I haven't been able to find a timer that
                                                                                                    > > will accept two plugs.
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > In a copy of Tropical Fish Hobbyist I saw an advertisement for a surge
                                                                                                    > > protector that includes timers... anybody know what I'm talking about and
                                                                                                    > > or where I could get one?
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > Tony
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1157 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: timers
                                                                                                    You plug them into any outlet.
                                                                                                    > Do you mean these items exist with timers, or that you plug one of them
                                                                                                    > into the timer. I guess that would make the most sense.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I'd still like to see one of these power bars if anybody knows where to
                                                                                                    > find them.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Tony
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > At 08:23 PM 3/8/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                    > > There are duplex and triplex plugs that plug into single plugs, and
                                                                                                    > > give you two or three more outlets.
                                                                                                    > > Joe P.
                                                                                                    > > > I'm like to get my hood lights set on an automatic timer. Problem is I
                                                                                                    > > > don't want to buy two of them and I haven't been able to find a timer that
                                                                                                    > > > will accept two plugs.
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > In a copy of Tropical Fish Hobbyist I saw an advertisement for a surge
                                                                                                    > > > protector that includes timers... anybody know what I'm talking about and
                                                                                                    > > > or where I could get one?
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > Tony
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1158 From: Cindy Hartman Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                    I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                    I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                    This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                    So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                    I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                    Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                    Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                    But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                    Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                    And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                    Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1159 From: klooster8 Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: New member seeks info
                                                                                                    Hi everyone in this group,hope you can help me out with some info
                                                                                                    regarding my fish. I have just recently relocated my 2 1/2ft
                                                                                                    tank,which houses 3 upside down fish,1 sailfin pleco(8cm)and have
                                                                                                    just added 1 female and 1 male convict.The guy in the aquarium shop
                                                                                                    told me that they would be fine together.The pleco now has 2 big
                                                                                                    tears in its dorsal fin.The male convict is guarding his female,also
                                                                                                    moving stones,and keeping sure the other fish don't come out of
                                                                                                    hiding.Is this behaviour continous for the convict,and should I
                                                                                                    remove the pleco.
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1160 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: ordering online
                                                                                                    Just wondering if anyone has ordered fish online, from whom, and what kind of experience you've had.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I've been having some bad luck with a couple lfs and the best store for a variety of fish is quite a drive from here. I've found what I'm looking for at Fish2U.com but I'm still a bit nervous about ordering fish online.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Thanks.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1161 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Online ordering
                                                                                                    Ordering fish online seems to be quite expensive for most fish,
                                                                                                    however if it is a rare fish it may be the only way to get them.
                                                                                                    When ordering online it is best to look for the ones with the best
                                                                                                    shipping prices and best policies. From the looks of the Fish2U
                                                                                                    website it seems to have a nice selection of fish but the shipping
                                                                                                    and return policies are rather vague. From what I see if your fish
                                                                                                    arrives alive and dies the next day you are out a lot of money. One
                                                                                                    of the better places I have seen is http://www.liveaquaria.com/ .
                                                                                                    The shipping is clearly stated up front and they have a 10 day
                                                                                                    guarantee on all aquarium life.

                                                                                                    Being in a relatively large city I can find almost any fish I
                                                                                                    could want here, however I would travel a few hours for some other
                                                                                                    types just to avoid any types of shipping costs. I am just cheap
                                                                                                    like that though :P


                                                                                                    Hopefully this helps you out in some way.

                                                                                                    Randy Clark
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1162 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                    I had a 75 gallon tank for goldfish, after starting with feeders in a 20 or 30 gallon tank. I could'nt believe how large feeder fish (for want of a better term, 'cuz they were each individual. Different. I misread a salt treatment while they were in the smaller tank, and all but two or three died of shock. When the remainder were in the 75 gallon tank, they grew to LARGE proportions, the exception was a white veiltail, who grew rounder than the long, regular comets. I had a penn plax undergravel filter, and a large Tetra hang-on that accomodated a sponge, and bag of activated carbon in a basket, through which the intake water flowed. On the other end of the back of the tank was a large Whisper, with two intake tubes and two outflows. They accomodated frames that could be covered with micron filter material, or bagS for activated carbon, etc. I always had trouble feeding EXACTLY the three minute rule (feed no more than a fish will consume in three minutes) , but never believed I went too far in the other directions. I fed twice a day. Once before going to work in the morning, and around 8:00 PM. At best I fed flakes or pellets in the morning, and chopped, freshly killed earthworms in the evening. I did'nt keep live plants in the tank because of the reputation the undergravel filters had for not accomodating plants, and the goldfish would scoop-up gravel frequently to eat what was caught in the gravel, be it uneaten food, or the organisms that grow on gravel, and the frequency of the latter activity would have meant daily replanting, I suppose. Eventually, I convinced myself that a 75 gallon tank was too small for fish of that size, and I either gave or sold them (two of them, since I would'nt populate a tank that size with more than the two) to a LFS.
                                                                                                    I never had the problems you describe, but it sounds like you have a grossly overpopulated tank, and/or you're grossly overfeeding, and/or your tank is too close to sunlight/getting too much light and you're not cleaning your tank/filters frequently. It's possible you're not changing water often enough. I feel I'm being presumptuous about this, abd It's hard to belive you've had success with Discus,of all things, and are now having trouble with goldfish. I'm fantasizing that your high maintainance period was followed by the opposite, and you're going to enter a period of re-adjustment.
                                                                                                    Joe P.
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1163 From: Walter Cain Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ordering online
                                                                                                    I have never bought any fish on line but I have had really good luck with corals and live rock.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Walter

                                                                                                    Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                    Just wondering if anyone has ordered fish online, from whom, and what kind of experience you've had.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    I've been having some bad luck with a couple lfs and the best store for a variety of fish is quite a drive from here. I've found what I'm looking for at Fish2U.com but I'm still a bit nervous about ordering fish online.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Thanks.
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                    Theresa


                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                    Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster.

                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1164 From: coronasudsdude Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: 110 Gal. w/5 - 5" Black & Silver Fat Belly Irredescent Sharks!
                                                                                                    Hello, I'm new to this FreshWater Tropical Fish Aquarium group & I
                                                                                                    just want this group to know that I'm in the process of raising (5)
                                                                                                    Black & Silver Fat Belly Irredescent Sharks (Tropical Fish) that are
                                                                                                    approx. 5" in length - and grow to be (3) ft. long (Predators of the
                                                                                                    Deep)!! Their life span (get this now) - 40 years!!! I've been into
                                                                                                    this hobby of tropical fish ever since I was a kid. I LOVE my
                                                                                                    SHARKS; Why go to the ocean when I can view them right in the
                                                                                                    comfort of my own home!
                                                                                                    I feed them Freeze dried JUMBO shrimp - once every other day to
                                                                                                    control their growth from having to invest into a larger tank any
                                                                                                    time soon as a 110 Gal. tank takes up a quite a bit of room & the
                                                                                                    weight of it alone too (oh' about a 1000 lbs. @ 8 lbs. per gal. of
                                                                                                    water)in just one area of my living room.
                                                                                                    I tell you what though,when company comes over it's truly the
                                                                                                    conversation peice!!
                                                                                                    If any member of this group would like to talk sharks (that actually
                                                                                                    look like the real McCoy), give me a holla @ the e-mail address
                                                                                                    posted above;
                                                                                                    Your Lougn' W/Da Joker Down Low via the Net; Gotta go pound down a
                                                                                                    bottle of Suds now, *Peace-to-all-FreshWater-Tropical-
                                                                                                    Fish-aquarium-Groupies*: Signing off the Information Super-Highway;
                                                                                                    Later. / A.K.A. - Corona Suds Dude - It's
                                                                                                    like Water w/a Fizz, When their Icy Cold... Now where's that bottle
                                                                                                    cap opener?? - oh Ya.
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1165 From: r_ohle Date: 3/8/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                    I have a question regarding the amount of time the lights are on in
                                                                                                    the aquarium. What is the standard , if you will, for the length of
                                                                                                    the photoperiod. I am hoping to grow my own aquatc plants and would
                                                                                                    appreciate any info. ~~Thank you~~
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1166 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: timers
                                                                                                    Tony,

                                                                                                    I have an extension cord plugged into a regular timer and all my aquariums
                                                                                                    lights are connected to it. The second extension cord runs the filters and
                                                                                                    heaters and it obviously does not have a timer.

                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >Sent: 09 March 2004 01:04
                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] timers
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >I'm like to get my hood lights set on an automatic timer. Problem is I
                                                                                                    >don't want to buy two of them and I haven't been able to find a timer that
                                                                                                    >will accept two plugs.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >In a copy of Tropical Fish Hobbyist I saw an advertisement for a surge
                                                                                                    >protector that includes timers... anybody know what I'm talking about and
                                                                                                    >or where I could get one?
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Tony
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1167 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: added bacteria
                                                                                                    See, the point is. In the next 3-5 days your Nitrites should start to come
                                                                                                    down on its own. What happens when you use the product is, that when they
                                                                                                    start to come down, you credit the product rather then the natural process
                                                                                                    and blindingly follow the product. I am not saying that the fish store lady
                                                                                                    is wrong, it could help, but why really bother when the natural process has
                                                                                                    started. I leave it to your judgment as to weather you will use it or not :P
                                                                                                    the result in both case is more or less going to be the same. What were
                                                                                                    your exact readings?

                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >Sent: 09 March 2004 01:06
                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] added bacteria
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >The bacteria additive the LFS told me to add to my tank to help with the
                                                                                                    >nitrite is called Bacter Vital. My readings are still high so she suggested
                                                                                                    >I run the treatment for another three days... hoping it works.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Tony
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1168 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                    10-14hrs per day. If you have a high light setup, then 10 - 11 hrs, if you
                                                                                                    have a low light setup then 10 - 14 hrs. if you start to get algae at 14 hr,
                                                                                                    start reducing the interval or drop back to 10 and gradually increase to see
                                                                                                    what effect it has on algae and plants. Rely on instincts.

                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >From: r_ohle [mailto:albino@...]
                                                                                                    >Sent: 09 March 2004 07:29
                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Hello,
                                                                                                    >I have a question regarding the amount of time the lights are on in
                                                                                                    >the aquarium. What is the standard , if you will, for the length of
                                                                                                    >the photoperiod. I am hoping to grow my own aquatc plants and would
                                                                                                    >appreciate any info. ~~Thank you~~
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1169 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 110 Gal. w/5 - 5" Black & Silver Fat Belly Irredescent Sharks!
                                                                                                    Oh well, irridiscent shark is actually a catfish and not a shark. Moreover,
                                                                                                    they preffer vegetable food to live food and as they grow older, they may
                                                                                                    cease to consume live food and switch to vegetable food (including boiled
                                                                                                    rice). So much for the predators of the deep. These fish can grow to 3ft in
                                                                                                    the wild, but in any aquarium less then 400 gallons, it would rarely exceed
                                                                                                    15". The largest I have seen in an aquarium is a 18" one kept in the London
                                                                                                    Public aquariums in a 1000 gallon community tank.

                                                                                                    The closest fish to a shark we have in freshwater is a Sting Ray and a
                                                                                                    Sturgeon. Rest of the fish are just labeled sharks whereas they are either
                                                                                                    barbs, carps, catfish.

                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >From: coronasudsdude [mailto:dajoker_24_7_365@...]
                                                                                                    >Sent: 09 March 2004 04:38
                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] 110 Gal. w/5 - 5" Black & Silver
                                                                                                    >Fat Belly Irredescent Sharks!
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Hello, I'm new to this FreshWater Tropical Fish Aquarium group & I
                                                                                                    >just want this group to know that I'm in the process of raising (5)
                                                                                                    >Black & Silver Fat Belly Irredescent Sharks (Tropical Fish) that are
                                                                                                    >approx. 5" in length - and grow to be (3) ft. long (Predators of the
                                                                                                    >Deep)!! Their life span (get this now) - 40 years!!! I've been into
                                                                                                    >this hobby of tropical fish ever since I was a kid. I LOVE my
                                                                                                    >SHARKS; Why go to the ocean when I can view them right in the
                                                                                                    >comfort of my own home!
                                                                                                    >I feed them Freeze dried JUMBO shrimp - once every other day to
                                                                                                    >control their growth from having to invest into a larger tank any
                                                                                                    >time soon as a 110 Gal. tank takes up a quite a bit of room & the
                                                                                                    >weight of it alone too (oh' about a 1000 lbs. @ 8 lbs. per gal. of
                                                                                                    >water)in just one area of my living room.
                                                                                                    >I tell you what though,when company comes over it's truly the
                                                                                                    >conversation peice!!
                                                                                                    >If any member of this group would like to talk sharks (that actually
                                                                                                    >look like the real McCoy), give me a holla @ the e-mail address
                                                                                                    >posted above;
                                                                                                    >Your Lougn' W/Da Joker Down Low via the Net; Gotta go pound down a
                                                                                                    >bottle of Suds now, *Peace-to-all-FreshWater-Tropical-
                                                                                                    >Fish-aquarium-Groupies*: Signing off the Information Super-Highway;
                                                                                                    >Later. / A.K.A. - Corona Suds Dude - It's
                                                                                                    >like Water w/a Fizz, When their Icy Cold... Now where's that bottle
                                                                                                    >cap opener?? - oh Ya.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1170 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                    Cindy,

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    The problem has been too much cleaning and probably too much feeding. Normally Tap water does have its own Nitrate levels which show up on the test kit, so if you have very little nitrates then its probably the tap water nitrates. No bacterial activity seems to have started in your tank which is a dangerous situation. Never used ammolock but some ammonia removers tend to give false reading for ammonia as well, which could also be the case.

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Do you use a water conditioner/dechlorinator during the water change? How much water have you been changing and with what frequency? I don’t recommend doing a water change until the cycle is complete or unless the nitrites are too high and are not coming down.

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    In this situation, you have 2 paths.: try using Bio-spira. These are live refrigerated bacteria that breakdown ammonia and nitrites. You will need 2 doses. One right now and the second when nitrites begin to show up.

                                                                                                    Second: if you know anyone who has an aquarium. Buy another set of filter media for your filter and gift it to him to keep in his tank for a day or 2 and replace your filter media with that media after 2 days. Be sure that the media when in transit from your friends tank to yours should not dry up and should not take more then 6 hrs. this will effectively bring in the bacteria you need. Don’t clean this filter until it starts to choke and even then, clean it in tank water.

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    In case your tank is already cycled, get the water tested by a reputed fish store and tell him that you use ammolock. They may be able to tell you if it has cycled or not.

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    As for green water, it usually is the result of excess light. Try switching off the light for a couple of days. If it does not improve, and your tank has not yet started its cycle(on confirmation from the fish store) do a 100% water change with dechlorinated water and/or water conditioner added to the water b4 you put it in the tank. And then start with either of the 2 steps I mentioned above. You can use both steps together also.

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Keep us updated on this.

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                     


                                                                                                    From: Cindy Hartman [mailto:cindy@...]
                                                                                                    Sent: 08 March 2004 23:12
                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                     

                                                                                                    I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                    I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                    This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                    So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                    I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                    Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                    Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                    But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                    Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                    And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                    Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.



                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1171 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: freshwater crabs
                                                                                                    Hi,

                                                                                                    They most likely were Red Claw Crabs and they do fine in a
                                                                                                    community tank even with the bottom swellers. They are kind of
                                                                                                    skittish. Mine turn and run when my algea eater swings his tail back
                                                                                                    and forth, and they are to slow to catch any of the other fish unless
                                                                                                    they are sick or dying. I have 6 and have an underwater habitat for
                                                                                                    them to escape to that provides a place for them to get out of the
                                                                                                    water. I have posted how to make this on the Tropical fish club group
                                                                                                    site. Sorry but I am not going to rewrite it here. At least not right
                                                                                                    now I am only on my second cup of coffee and not up to that yet.

                                                                                                    Mike

                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                    Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > The Crab you mention could be a Red claw crab. Now, experiences on
                                                                                                    the net
                                                                                                    > say it is safe enough for fish, but not my Fish store. Especially
                                                                                                    if you
                                                                                                    > have slow and dumb fish that offer themselves as food.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1172 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ordering online
                                                                                                    Hi Dan & Theresa,

                                                                                                    Personally I wouldn't order my fish from an online site. You have
                                                                                                    no idea what condition the fish will arrive in. I like to go to the
                                                                                                    store even if it is a drive and see what I am getting first hand
                                                                                                    before I put out any money. Thats just me though, I am probably just
                                                                                                    an old stick in the mud but somethings are better done in person I
                                                                                                    think.

                                                                                                    Mike




                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Dan &
                                                                                                    Theresa" <dtmergl@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                    > Just wondering if anyone has ordered fish online, from whom, and
                                                                                                    what kind of experience you've had.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > I've been having some bad luck with a couple lfs and the best store
                                                                                                    for a variety of fish is quite a drive from here. I've found what I'm
                                                                                                    looking for at Fish2U.com but I'm still a bit nervous about ordering
                                                                                                    fish online.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Thanks.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Theresa
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1173 From: tbittick Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: added bacteria
                                                                                                    Well damn.

                                                                                                    I have to admit I was more than a little dissappointed when the nitrite
                                                                                                    readings were still high.

                                                                                                    See, the product is supposed to cause false positives for ammonia and
                                                                                                    nitrites. So I did an ammonia check and it came out exactly as before,
                                                                                                    clear.

                                                                                                    It's not about immediate gratification. I mean if it were, I wouldn't have
                                                                                                    chosen the path I have, i.e. live plants first etc. I mean it's already been
                                                                                                    three weeks.

                                                                                                    I went to the product because people, here and at the LFS, started saying it
                                                                                                    could be another month. I figured if adding the extra bacteria helped cut
                                                                                                    that even in half it was well worth the expense.

                                                                                                    We'll see...

                                                                                                    Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                                    > See, the point is. In the next 3-5 days your Nitrites should start to come
                                                                                                    > down on its own. What happens when you use the product is, that when they
                                                                                                    > start to come down, you credit the product rather then the natural process
                                                                                                    > and blindingly follow the product. I am not saying that the fish store lady
                                                                                                    > is wrong, it could help, but why really bother when the natural process has
                                                                                                    > started. I leave it to your judgment as to weather you will use it or not :P
                                                                                                    > the result in both case is more or less going to be the same. What were
                                                                                                    > your exact readings?
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Nim
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>Sent: 09 March 2004 01:06
                                                                                                    >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] added bacteria
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>The bacteria additive the LFS told me to add to my tank to help with the
                                                                                                    >>nitrite is called Bacter Vital. My readings are still high so she suggested
                                                                                                    >>I run the treatment for another three days... hoping it works.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>Tony
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1174 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: added bacteria
                                                                                                    Tony,

                                                                                                    Nitrites come down much slower then ammonia in my experience. But it all
                                                                                                    boils down to weather or not their conversion to nitrates has started or
                                                                                                    not. If its not yet started, then it could take about a week for it to start
                                                                                                    coming down, if it has started then it will take about a week to bring it to
                                                                                                    zero. During a cycle process, it is normally the 3rd week in which nitrites
                                                                                                    spike and by the 4rth week, they start to come down and you are ready in
                                                                                                    4rth or the 5th week to add the fish in. I thought it had been more than 5
                                                                                                    weeks since you set it up, hence my confusion. Have your nitrates started
                                                                                                    increasing or not? This is the bottom line question. If they have, then
                                                                                                    probably another 5 more days and things should be under control. It
                                                                                                    certainly will not take a month from now unless something wrong is
                                                                                                    happening(something killing the bacteria) in which case, even adding the
                                                                                                    bacteria may not help. But another thing that is important is, that your
                                                                                                    ammonia reducing bacteria should not start starving due to the excessive
                                                                                                    delay as if this happens, everything may have to start from scratch again.
                                                                                                    This is normally a mistake when people let their tanks for a fish less cycle
                                                                                                    for over 2 months.

                                                                                                    As for now, If I were you, I need an answer as to weather Nitrates have
                                                                                                    started increasing or not. If they have, then sit back and relax, if they
                                                                                                    have not, go ahed and try the bacteria product. At this stage, ammonia or
                                                                                                    nitrite tests are not as important as regular nitrate tests.

                                                                                                    Best of luck with it and hope Nitrates have increased considerably.

                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >Sent: 09 March 2004 11:56
                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: added bacteria
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Well damn.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >I have to admit I was more than a little dissappointed when the nitrite
                                                                                                    >readings were still high.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >See, the product is supposed to cause false positives for ammonia and
                                                                                                    >nitrites. So I did an ammonia check and it came out exactly as before,
                                                                                                    >clear.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >It's not about immediate gratification. I mean if it were, I wouldn't have
                                                                                                    >chosen the path I have, i.e. live plants first etc. I mean it's already
                                                                                                    >been
                                                                                                    >three weeks.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >I went to the product because people, here and at the LFS, started saying
                                                                                                    >it
                                                                                                    >could be another month. I figured if adding the extra bacteria helped cut
                                                                                                    >that even in half it was well worth the expense.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >We'll see...
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >> See, the point is. In the next 3-5 days your Nitrites should start to
                                                                                                    >come
                                                                                                    >> down on its own. What happens when you use the product is, that when they
                                                                                                    >> start to come down, you credit the product rather then the natural
                                                                                                    >process
                                                                                                    >> and blindingly follow the product. I am not saying that the fish store
                                                                                                    >lady
                                                                                                    >> is wrong, it could help, but why really bother when the natural process
                                                                                                    >has
                                                                                                    >> started. I leave it to your judgment as to weather you will use it or not
                                                                                                    >:P
                                                                                                    >> the result in both case is more or less going to be the same. What were
                                                                                                    >> your exact readings?
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> Nim
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>Sent: 09 March 2004 01:06
                                                                                                    >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] added bacteria
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>The bacteria additive the LFS told me to add to my tank to help with the
                                                                                                    >>>nitrite is called Bacter Vital. My readings are still high so she
                                                                                                    >suggested
                                                                                                    >>>I run the treatment for another three days... hoping it works.
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1175 From: tbittick Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: added bacteria
                                                                                                    Nim...

                                                                                                    As it happens Nitrates are the one thing I have NOT tested for yet.
                                                                                                    Obviously I should.

                                                                                                    I'll probably give that a try, or take a water sample into the LFS, and let
                                                                                                    you know what we find.

                                                                                                    Tony

                                                                                                    Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                                    > Tony,
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Nitrites come down much slower then ammonia in my experience. But it all
                                                                                                    > boils down to weather or not their conversion to nitrates has started or
                                                                                                    > not. If its not yet started, then it could take about a week for it to start
                                                                                                    > coming down, if it has started then it will take about a week to bring it to
                                                                                                    > zero. During a cycle process, it is normally the 3rd week in which nitrites
                                                                                                    > spike and by the 4rth week, they start to come down and you are ready in
                                                                                                    > 4rth or the 5th week to add the fish in. I thought it had been more than 5
                                                                                                    > weeks since you set it up, hence my confusion. Have your nitrates started
                                                                                                    > increasing or not? This is the bottom line question. If they have, then
                                                                                                    > probably another 5 more days and things should be under control. It
                                                                                                    > certainly will not take a month from now unless something wrong is
                                                                                                    > happening(something killing the bacteria) in which case, even adding the
                                                                                                    > bacteria may not help. But another thing that is important is, that your
                                                                                                    > ammonia reducing bacteria should not start starving due to the excessive
                                                                                                    > delay as if this happens, everything may have to start from scratch again.
                                                                                                    > This is normally a mistake when people let their tanks for a fish less cycle
                                                                                                    > for over 2 months.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > As for now, If I were you, I need an answer as to weather Nitrates have
                                                                                                    > started increasing or not. If they have, then sit back and relax, if they
                                                                                                    > have not, go ahed and try the bacteria product. At this stage, ammonia or
                                                                                                    > nitrite tests are not as important as regular nitrate tests.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Best of luck with it and hope Nitrates have increased considerably.
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    > Nim
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>Sent: 09 March 2004 11:56
                                                                                                    >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: added bacteria
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>Well damn.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>I have to admit I was more than a little dissappointed when the nitrite
                                                                                                    >>readings were still high.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>See, the product is supposed to cause false positives for ammonia and
                                                                                                    >>nitrites. So I did an ammonia check and it came out exactly as before,
                                                                                                    >>clear.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>It's not about immediate gratification. I mean if it were, I wouldn't have
                                                                                                    >>chosen the path I have, i.e. live plants first etc. I mean it's already
                                                                                                    >>been
                                                                                                    >>three weeks.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>I went to the product because people, here and at the LFS, started saying
                                                                                                    >>it
                                                                                                    >>could be another month. I figured if adding the extra bacteria helped cut
                                                                                                    >>that even in half it was well worth the expense.
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>We'll see...
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>> See, the point is. In the next 3-5 days your Nitrites should start to
                                                                                                    >>come
                                                                                                    >>> down on its own. What happens when you use the product is, that when they
                                                                                                    >>> start to come down, you credit the product rather then the natural
                                                                                                    >>process
                                                                                                    >>> and blindingly follow the product. I am not saying that the fish store
                                                                                                    >>lady
                                                                                                    >>> is wrong, it could help, but why really bother when the natural process
                                                                                                    >>has
                                                                                                    >>> started. I leave it to your judgment as to weather you will use it or not
                                                                                                    >>:P
                                                                                                    >>> the result in both case is more or less going to be the same. What were
                                                                                                    >>> your exact readings?
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>> Nim
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                    >>>>From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                    >>>>Sent: 09 March 2004 01:06
                                                                                                    >>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                    >>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] added bacteria
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>The bacteria additive the LFS told me to add to my tank to help with the
                                                                                                    >>>>nitrite is called Bacter Vital. My readings are still high so she
                                                                                                    >>suggested
                                                                                                    >>>>I run the treatment for another three days... hoping it works.
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>Tony
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                    > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
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                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1176 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                      How big were the feeders and 'fancy' fish that you stocked?  The 'so-called' 'rule-of-thumb', ie, 'an-inch-per-gallon' does'nt hold true if you consider a two inch fish can be four or more times larger than a one inch fish, if length is the faulty determinant for gauging waste products relative to your biological filter volume. Plants could'nt possibly utilize the waste products generated by an overstocked tank, and what you describe is more that an expected algal-bloom when establishing bacterial-colonies in a newly set-up tank. Using de-ammoniators in an overstocked tank eliminates the ammonia that bacteria need to consume in order to multiply into an ammonia buffer. If there's no ammonia, because of the ammonia-neutralizer, there is'nt ammonia available to be broken down into nitrites. While I'm not an expert, while your nitrates are low, there seems to be something  in fish-waste that feeds algae that has caused an appalling growth of algae. If you continue adding chemical-neutralizer, your ammonia willnever be there to feed the nitro-bacteria. Adding anti-algal drugs/chemicals to your situation will probably kill your plants and damage, if you have one, your biological filter, and fish, if you use enough to eliminate the volume you're describing. I don't thing your filtration is adequate to your needs. A cannister-filter with micron filtration would be part of a rational approach for filtering, and checking and cleaning the filter frequently, at least as long as you have your current problem, would be routine. Diluting your current excess with frequent water changes would be advisable, and from what I've read in this list recently, someone with more experience than me could give you a %'age, but I'd start with 50% daily 'till I noticed a drastic improvement. I don't think you have adequate biological filtration, a trickle-filter, either a hang-on or an under the cabinet type would be advisable, in my meager estimation.  Or if you have the determination, tear the tank down and install an under gravel filter. I've used Whisper for years, but would never rely on them solely for biological filtration. You have more goldfish than I had in a 75 gallon tank, that's why I think you're overstocked. Nitro-bacteria are aerobic, that's why I think you need more bio-filtration, and a static gravel-bed does'nt allow for oxygen relating to every part of the gravel-bed. ASn UndreGravelFilter would mitigate that, and a trickle hang-on ,or under the cabinet rig, would greatly increase the volume for aerobic nitro-bacteria to fix upon.  The fish you mentioned can become VERY LARGE/BIG/GIGANTIC++++++++ quickly, and  while you have what I consider a small tank for such a community, I think you should consider something much larger if you wish to have something that does'nt resemble a sardine-can soon, or consider removing some of the creatures.
                                                                                                                                              Joe P.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:11 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                    I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                    I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                    This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                    So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                    I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                    Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                    Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                    But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                    Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                    And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                    Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.

                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1177 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                        Cindy,
                                                                                                     
                                                                                                      This is my third post on this subject, and things that have been bothering me, I've been doing a little searching about. Found a site that indicates nutrients in the water can cause algal problems.
                                                                                                       When you said "....laterite mixed with gravel", did you mean you literally mixed it, or deposited the laterite beneath the gravel, and then deposited the gravel over.on-top-of it? I have'nt used laterite foryears, but remember when I did, there was a pink tinge to the water, but the problem subsided. I used the little laterite-mud-balls. The prob occured when I disturbed the gravel. I've never been perfectly into plant substrates, but if I have enough time left, I may try.
                                                                                                                                                 Joe P.
                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:11 PM
                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                    I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                    I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                    This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                    So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                    I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                    Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                    Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                    But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                    Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                    And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                    Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.

                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1178 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                    Subject: Algone.com - Aquarium Substrate and Aquarium Gravel
                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                      Cindy,
                                                                                                         There's an insert regarding substrates for the planted tank, and, in case you mixed the laterite with the gravel literally, describes how to locate nutrients relative to gravel-placement.
                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                       http://www.algone.com/substrate_pf.htm
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1179 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: added bacteria
                                                                                                      Yep. Do a test every 2-3 days and see if they are increasing if they are
                                                                                                      already high (higher then 25ppm) then also check your tap water for
                                                                                                      Nitrates. If these is a considerable difference between the 2, then you re
                                                                                                      in a very good direction.

                                                                                                      Nim


                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 09 March 2004 12:45
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: added bacteria
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Nim...
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >As it happens Nitrates are the one thing I have NOT tested for yet.
                                                                                                      >Obviously I should.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >I'll probably give that a try, or take a water sample into the LFS, and let
                                                                                                      >you know what we find.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Tony
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >> Tony,
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Nitrites come down much slower then ammonia in my experience. But it all
                                                                                                      >> boils down to weather or not their conversion to nitrates has started or
                                                                                                      >> not. If its not yet started, then it could take about a week for it to
                                                                                                      >start
                                                                                                      >> coming down, if it has started then it will take about a week to bring it
                                                                                                      >to
                                                                                                      >> zero. During a cycle process, it is normally the 3rd week in which
                                                                                                      >nitrites
                                                                                                      >> spike and by the 4rth week, they start to come down and you are ready in
                                                                                                      >> 4rth or the 5th week to add the fish in. I thought it had been more than
                                                                                                      >5
                                                                                                      >> weeks since you set it up, hence my confusion. Have your nitrates started
                                                                                                      >> increasing or not? This is the bottom line question. If they have, then
                                                                                                      >> probably another 5 more days and things should be under control. It
                                                                                                      >> certainly will not take a month from now unless something wrong is
                                                                                                      >> happening(something killing the bacteria) in which case, even adding the
                                                                                                      >> bacteria may not help. But another thing that is important is, that your
                                                                                                      >> ammonia reducing bacteria should not start starving due to the excessive
                                                                                                      >> delay as if this happens, everything may have to start from scratch
                                                                                                      >again.
                                                                                                      >> This is normally a mistake when people let their tanks for a fish less
                                                                                                      >cycle
                                                                                                      >> for over 2 months.
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> As for now, If I were you, I need an answer as to weather Nitrates have
                                                                                                      >> started increasing or not. If they have, then sit back and relax, if they
                                                                                                      >> have not, go ahed and try the bacteria product. At this stage, ammonia or
                                                                                                      >> nitrite tests are not as important as regular nitrate tests.
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Best of luck with it and hope Nitrates have increased considerably.
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Nim
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                      >>>Sent: 09 March 2004 11:56
                                                                                                      >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: added bacteria
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>Well damn.
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>I have to admit I was more than a little dissappointed when the nitrite
                                                                                                      >>>readings were still high.
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>See, the product is supposed to cause false positives for ammonia and
                                                                                                      >>>nitrites. So I did an ammonia check and it came out exactly as before,
                                                                                                      >>>clear.
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>It's not about immediate gratification. I mean if it were, I wouldn't
                                                                                                      >have
                                                                                                      >>>chosen the path I have, i.e. live plants first etc. I mean it's already
                                                                                                      >>>been
                                                                                                      >>>three weeks.
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>I went to the product because people, here and at the LFS, started saying
                                                                                                      >>>it
                                                                                                      >>>could be another month. I figured if adding the extra bacteria helped cut
                                                                                                      >>>that even in half it was well worth the expense.
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>We'll see...
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>> See, the point is. In the next 3-5 days your Nitrites should start to
                                                                                                      >>>come
                                                                                                      >>>> down on its own. What happens when you use the product is, that when
                                                                                                      >they
                                                                                                      >>>> start to come down, you credit the product rather then the natural
                                                                                                      >>>process
                                                                                                      >>>> and blindingly follow the product. I am not saying that the fish store
                                                                                                      >>>lady
                                                                                                      >>>> is wrong, it could help, but why really bother when the natural process
                                                                                                      >>>has
                                                                                                      >>>> started. I leave it to your judgment as to weather you will use it or
                                                                                                      >not
                                                                                                      >>>:P
                                                                                                      >>>> the result in both case is more or less going to be the same. What
                                                                                                      >were
                                                                                                      >>>> your exact readings?
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>> Nim
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >>>>>From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                      >>>>>Sent: 09 March 2004 01:06
                                                                                                      >>>>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >>>>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] added bacteria
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>The bacteria additive the LFS told me to add to my tank to help with
                                                                                                      >the
                                                                                                      >>>>>nitrite is called Bacter Vital. My readings are still high so she
                                                                                                      >>>suggested
                                                                                                      >>>>>I run the treatment for another three days... hoping it works.
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>Tony
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>>
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1180 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                      I'm sure your comments about high ammonia have been addressed. However,
                                                                                                      haven't checked the rest of the msgs, so here goes. The more Ammo Lock
                                                                                                      you add, the higher false readings you're going to get from your tester.
                                                                                                      Liquid testers use a nessler reagent and Ammo Lock and Amquel each give
                                                                                                      false readings then. You might want to buy Dri Tabs testers by Aquarium
                                                                                                      Pharm. Drop the duration of you lights to 9 hours or so. Also, don't
                                                                                                      use things like AlgaeFix, they contain carcinogens. Try using barley
                                                                                                      straw pellets and bury them in your substrate. Don't gravel vac near
                                                                                                      that area for a couple of months. They will slowly decay and release
                                                                                                      tannic and humeric acids in the water which interfere with algaes
                                                                                                      ability to form. You find this stuff with the pond products. I first
                                                                                                      used this in my pond, but used it in my 46 bow during an outbreak of
                                                                                                      hair algae. Worked great. It's not a cure all, but it should help
                                                                                                      some. I would also look into the lights that came with the tank, quite
                                                                                                      often the spectrum is appealing to the eye, but is the wrong spectrum
                                                                                                      for plants. The less than perfect spectrum is great for growing algae,
                                                                                                      though. BTW, PetSmart's usually have back up Dri Tabs to test with in
                                                                                                      addition to the liquid testers. Just have to ask the staff to find
                                                                                                      them.

                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1181 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New member seeks info
                                                                                                      I would remove the pleco if it were my tank. Also, everyone needs to
                                                                                                      stop trusting the word of "SalesPeople" so much, IMO. I hear this all
                                                                                                      the time, "The other petshop said it'd be fine..." I have a competitor
                                                                                                      near my store that shovels the manure all day to get sales. Even runs
                                                                                                      an add in the paper each week that bettas are great with the betta
                                                                                                      vases, doesn't need filtration and tap water is fine-i.e. no
                                                                                                      conditioners, just for an example. It's up to the hobbiest to do their
                                                                                                      research before buying new fish, saving many animals from pain and
                                                                                                      suffering. Don't mean to preach, I just hear so much of this bad advice
                                                                                                      coming from so many stores, it's a bit frustrating.

                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1182 From: John Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      HI
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      I'm still getting to grips with my first planted aquarium and this is a sibject that I have thought about a lot. I also grow plants hydroponicaly, basically because I dont have a garden. Drawing on my experince from both this and fishkeeping I actually think the lights should be on for around 18 hours! I appreciate that this could cause an algea breakout but surely if the plants are absorbing all of the nutrients then there will be little chance of algea appearing in the first place. Combine that with a few algea loving fish would you get much if any algea ? I know that plants certainly grow better when given 18 plus hours of light a day, in fact in hydroponics the only time you have the light on for less than 18 hours is when you are trying to make the plants fruit.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Any other comments appreciated, as I say this is my first planted tank so I may be completely wrong.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      John
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:12 AM
                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod

                                                                                                      10-14hrs per day. If you have a high light setup, then 10 - 11 hrs, if you
                                                                                                      have a low light setup then 10 - 14 hrs. if you start to get algae at 14 hr,
                                                                                                      start reducing the interval or drop back to 10 and gradually increase to see
                                                                                                      what effect it has on algae and plants. Rely on instincts.

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: r_ohle [mailto:albino@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 09 March 2004 07:29
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Hello,
                                                                                                      >I have a question regarding the amount of time the lights are on in
                                                                                                      >the aquarium. What is the standard , if you will, for the length of
                                                                                                      >the photoperiod. I am hoping to grow my own aquatc plants and would
                                                                                                      >appreciate any info. ~~Thank you~~
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1183 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                      I agree totally on the use of chemicals in the water. things that claim to remove ammonia and things will in 90% cases disrupt your cycle. It is possible that this is one of the reasons why your cycle has not taken place. Regarding the over stocking issue, I will not comment on it as I am a culprit myself. My planted 105 gallon has fish of 130” and none are smaller then 2”. So it is indeed extremely stocked, another 25 gallon has about 40 fish of 1.5” average each. Needless to say what state it is in. but excessive plant growth and regular maintenance keeps things in good control. The 3rd ironic 105 gallon tank has 2 goldfish(4-5” head to tail tip black moors). Beat that.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Green water algae is basically diatoms. Their main source of nutrient is light. Minor water changes will not deter them in any way and the only thing in my experience has been effective against them are: UV Filters (too expensive and not for regular use), 1ml Hydrogen Peroxide per gallon (can and will destroy some plants), 2-3 day period of darkness. The first 2 methods kill the diatoms and the 3rd starves them. A 100% water change will also remove them but lands a risk of disrupting the cycle also.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      So if your cycle has not started, you can do a 100% water change and give some respite to the fish temporarily and start to establishing the cycle once again. If your fishstore agrees to keep the fish with them till your cycle ends, it is most advised. Else use a mature filter to help the cycle. I have had my tanks cycled by using filter media from a mature tank in just 5 days. If your tank is fully cycled and ammonia readings were false, switch off the lights for 2 days and cover the tank with a sheet so that no light goes in there. 2-3 days and the diatoms will perish. If nothing works, then use 1ml of 3.5% hydrogen peroxide per gallon of water to treat your tank and do a 50% water change to reduce the H2O2 concentration after 2 hrs. but your have to be carefull as it will damage delicate plants.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                       


                                                                                                      From: Joseph Pascavage [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                      Sent: 09 March 2004 13:19
                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                        How big were the feeders and 'fancy' fish that you stocked?  The 'so-called' 'rule-of-thumb', ie, 'an-inch-per-gallon' does'nt hold true if you consider a two inch fish can be four or more times larger than a one inch fish, if length is the faulty determinant for gauging waste products relative to your biological filter volume. Plants could'nt possibly utilize the waste products generated by an overstocked tank, and what you describe is more that an expected algal-bloom when establishing bacterial-colonies in a newly set-up tank. Using de-ammoniators in an overstocked tank eliminates the ammonia that bacteria need to consume in order to multiply into an ammonia buffer. If there's no ammonia, because of the ammonia-neutralizer, there is'nt ammonia available to be broken down into nitrites. While I'm not an expert, while your nitrates are low, there seems to be something  in fish-waste that feeds algae that has caused an appalling growth of algae. If you continue adding chemical-neutralizer, your ammonia willnever be there to feed the nitro-bacteria. Adding anti-algal drugs/chemicals to your situation will probably kill your plants and damage, if you have one, your biological filter, and fish, if you use enough to eliminate the volume you're describing. I don't thing your filtration is adequate to your needs. A cannister-filter with micron filtration would be part of a rational approach for filtering, and checking and cleaning the filter frequently, at least as long as you have your current problem, would be routine. Diluting your current excess with frequent water changes would be advisable, and from what I've read in this list recently, someone with more experience than me could give you a %'age, but I'd start with 50% daily 'till I noticed a drastic improvement. I don't think you have adequate biological filtration, a trickle-filter, either a hang-on or an under the cabinet type would be advisable, in my meager estimation.  Or if you have the determination, tear the tank down and install an under gravel filter. I've used Whisper for years, but would never rely on them solely for biological filtration. You have more goldfish than I had in a 75 gallon tank, that's why I think you're overstocked. Nitro-bacteria are aerobic, that's why I think you need more bio-filtration, and a static gravel-bed does'nt allow for oxygen relating to every part of the gravel-bed. ASn UndreGravelFilter would mitigate that, and a trickle hang-on ,or under the cabinet rig, would greatly increase the volume for aerobic nitro-bacteria to fix upon.  The fish you mentioned can become VERY LARGE/BIG/GIGANTIC++++++++ quickly, and  while you have what I consider a small tank for such a community, I think you should consider something much larger if you wish to have something that does'nt resemble a sardine-can soon, or consider removing some of the creatures.

                                                                                                                                                Joe P.

                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:11 PM

                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                      I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                      This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                      So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                      I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                      Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                      Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                      But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                      Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                      And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                      Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.




                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1184 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                      Cindy,
                                                                                                         Try a GOOGLE-search with terms like;
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                 laterite and algae
                                                                                                                 nutrients and algae
                                                                                                                 ammonia and algae
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      .........and don't necessarily fall for something that claims to safely remove algae.  Some of the most interesting articles about algae are only available in PDF (Portable Document Format), with Adobe Reader. Adobe Reader is available free, and the newest version {6.0.1 (that's version 6, with updates)}does'nt work on my system  I had a copy of version 6 on a CDR (without the version 6 updates), so I installed it, and it's now working. The most interesting article relates to the presence of ammonia in a real/natural environment and the related growth of algae, which leads me to believe ammonia alone is a possible cause of algae in water.
                                                                                                                      Joe P.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:11 PM
                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                      I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                      I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                      This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                      So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                      I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                      Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                      Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                      But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                      Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                      And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                      Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.

                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1185 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod

                                                                                                      John,

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Interestingly, I never investigated in that directions as extra light always does invite algae, worse that many of the nutrients like phosphates etc are things that plants can never eradicate from the tank are the ones that trigger algae. Again, it would be interesting to experiment myself when my CO2 system is working again that how things behave. Fish obviously will not like it but that does not mean that plants also don’t. there is some truth about it as the process of photosynthesis builds up gradually and not just like an on-off switch. So if we have 12hrs of light, the effective period for which we are having photosynthesis is 10 hrs and 10hrs of rest. in a 18hr period, the photosynthesis period would be 16hrs and 4 hrs of rest. Not a biologist, but I think the rest period also needs to be there and has to be a considerable amount as compared to the working period. I also could be wrong on this. Lets see some other replies on this subject J.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      On another view, this would work very well if you have no other limiting nutrients: CO2, Nitrogen, Trace elements etc. in a non CO2 tank, 18hr period can be a disaster as after a certain time, the plants would be limited by the amount of CO2 dissolved in the water and the excess nutrients will then help algae. If you are providing regular CO2, and there are enough of other nutrients available, the plants will keep kicking. This will also mean that since excess of nutrients are being made available for an extended period of time, there is no reason why algae should not kick in. main nutrient source of algae is Light, nitrates and phosphates. If any one of these depletes to a level to starve algae, it will most defiantly starve plants and cause a much more adverse effect on creating an imbalance of nutrients. It would be a very rare case that it is successful.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                       


                                                                                                      From: John [mailto:john@...]
                                                                                                      Sent: 09 March 2004 15:25
                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      HI

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      I'm still getting to grips with my first planted aquarium and this is a sibject that I have thought about a lot. I also grow plants hydroponicaly, basically because I dont have a garden. Drawing on my experince from both this and fishkeeping I actually think the lights should be on for around 18 hours! I appreciate that this could cause an algea breakout but surely if the plants are absorbing all of the nutrients then there will be little chance of algea appearing in the first place. Combine that with a few algea loving fish would you get much if any algea ? I know that plants certainly grow better when given 18 plus hours of light a day, in fact in hydroponics the only time you have the light on for less than 18 hours is when you are trying to make the plants fruit.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Any other comments appreciated, as I say this is my first planted tank so I may be completely wrong.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      John

                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:12 AM

                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      10-14hrs per day. If you have a high light setup, then 10 - 11 hrs, if you
                                                                                                      have a low light setup then 10 - 14 hrs. if you start to get algae at 14 hr,
                                                                                                      start reducing the interval or drop back to 10 and gradually increase to see
                                                                                                      what effect it has on algae and plants. Rely on instincts.

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: r_ohle [mailto:albino@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 09 March 2004 07:29
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Hello,
                                                                                                      >I have a question regarding the amount of time the lights are on in
                                                                                                      >the aquarium. What is the standard , if you will, for the length of
                                                                                                      >the photoperiod. I am hoping to grow my own aquatc plants and would
                                                                                                      >appreciate any info. ~~Thank you~~
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1186 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                      Ok. A Million $ question, has Cindy’s tank completed the cycle or it has not even started the cycle? I think the priority here is the cycle part. Algae can be dealt with later on. Is she getting incorrect ammonia readings? Or are they correct? Since there is so much algae and little nitrates, I suppose it has not even started the cycle.. so why not start afresh again. This time with a better method and not using ammonia remover and a smaller fish load?

                                                                                                       


                                                                                                      From: Joseph Pascavage [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                      Sent: 09 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Cindy,

                                                                                                         Try a GOOGLE-search with terms like;

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                 laterite and algae

                                                                                                                 nutrients and algae

                                                                                                                 ammonia and algae

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      .........and don't necessarily fall for something that claims to safely remove algae.  Some of the most interesting articles about algae are only available in PDF (Portable Document Format), with Adobe Reader. Adobe Reader is available free, and the newest version {6.0.1 (that's version 6, with updates)}does'nt work on my system  I had a copy of version 6 on a CDR (without the version 6 updates), so I installed it, and it's now working. The most interesting article relates to the presence of ammonia in a real/natural environment and the related growth of algae, which leads me to believe ammonia alone is a possible cause of algae in water.

                                                                                                                      Joe P.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:11 PM

                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                      I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                      This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                      So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                      I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                      Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                      Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                      But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                      Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                      And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                      Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.



                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1187 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      My tank almost always had Hygrophilia, and it grew most in winter, here in Pennsylvania, USA. I had my lights attached to dimmers that I sometimes used, to accomodate the need to not shock the fish by sudden light changes. I never notced or catalogued a difference in growth patterns except the plants seemed to grow more in winter.
                                                                                                      Joe P.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1188 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                      Oh and Ammonia alone cannot trigger algae :P it also needs light. But yes, Ammonia is more easily utilizable for both plants and algae then nitrates. Interesting to see how Cindy respnds. She has got too many posts to read for the day.

                                                                                                       


                                                                                                      From: Joseph Pascavage [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                      Sent: 09 March 2004 16:34
                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Cindy,

                                                                                                         Try a GOOGLE-search with terms like;

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                 laterite and algae

                                                                                                                 nutrients and algae

                                                                                                                 ammonia and algae

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      .........and don't necessarily fall for something that claims to safely remove algae.  Some of the most interesting articles about algae are only available in PDF (Portable Document Format), with Adobe Reader. Adobe Reader is available free, and the newest version {6.0.1 (that's version 6, with updates)}does'nt work on my system  I had a copy of version 6 on a CDR (without the version 6 updates), so I installed it, and it's now working. The most interesting article relates to the presence of ammonia in a real/natural environment and the related growth of algae, which leads me to believe ammonia alone is a possible cause of algae in water.

                                                                                                                      Joe P.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:11 PM

                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                      I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                      This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                      So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                      I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                      Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                      Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                      But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                      Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                      And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                      Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.



                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1189 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                      Don't know the size of her fish, but the number is large for starters, and since she's implied she's using ammo-neutralizer, there's the liklihood her viable bio-filtration has'nt even begun. As for nitrates, if as has been pointed out by other posters, a source could be local water. The ammo-neutralizer if added according to directions could allow ammonia, since her fish population is excessive. If there's a marginallly small population of nitro-fixing bacteria available, the ammonia could be off-scale, a little nitrite and nitrate could be formed, and the ammonia and LIGHT (as you pointed out) could be enhancing her algal problem.
                                                                                                      Joe P.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1190 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                      I remember using detergents that state they contain ionic and anionic surficants. If you spray it on a dirty wall, it removes dirt directly proportional to it's track/meander down the wall. Also household bleach, in personal experience looses it's potency proportional to the amount of material it's expected to bleach or kill (the latter for bacterial destruction), to a point where it even looses its' smell. The ammo-neutralizer can only neutralize ideally what its' intended to. If the fish load is greater, or much greater that the directions call for, trying to neutralize for a 45 gallon tank, using 45 gallon directions, when the fish-load is proportional to 100, 200 gallons or more for an initial bacteria colony, would cause problems.
                                                                                                      Joe P.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1191 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                      I used AMQUEL years ago, maybe 10, and the stuff had for years sat in my fish-supply-cabinet, 'till I disposed of it. Besides the memory that the FSP told me AMQUEL itself gives a false ammo reading, and maybe the directions also indicated such, having a chemical-solution to eliminate ammonia that indicates ammonia is present, but 'NOT REALLY', was'nt helping me learn what's going on in the tank. Is there reliable research about the quantity of nitrogen-fixing bacteria available in the atmosphere to seed an aquarium, without resorting to the usual methods?
                                                                                                      Joe P.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1192 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Different fish
                                                                                                      Today as I was wandering from pet store to pet store, I saw a
                                                                                                      type of fish I have never seen before. It was a white Mickey Mouse
                                                                                                      platy. I have seen the bluish variety and this was certainly not any
                                                                                                      shade of that. The main question that I have is if anyone else has
                                                                                                      seen these at various pet stores around the world. If they are
                                                                                                      somewhat uncommon I may be more apt to purchase them quicker than if
                                                                                                      I can find them some other time later on. Any sightings would be
                                                                                                      appreciated.

                                                                                                      Randy Clark
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1193 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                        Nim,
                                                                                                           Do you think Cindy's Whisper 300 is adequate to her needs?
                                                                                                                           Joe.P.
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:26 AM
                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                      I agree totally on the use of chemicals in the water. things that claim to remove ammonia and things will in 90% cases disrupt your cycle. It is possible that this is one of the reasons why your cycle has not taken place. Regarding the over stocking issue, I will not comment on it as I am a culprit myself. My planted 105 gallon has fish of 130” and none are smaller then 2”. So it is indeed extremely stocked, another 25 gallon has about 40 fish of 1.5” average each. Needless to say what state it is in. but excessive plant growth and regular maintenance keeps things in good control. The 3rd ironic 105 gallon tank has 2 goldfish(4-5” head to tail tip black moors). Beat that.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Green water algae is basically diatoms. Their main source of nutrient is light. Minor water changes will not deter them in any way and the only thing in my experience has been effective against them are: UV Filters (too expensive and not for regular use), 1ml Hydrogen Peroxide per gallon (can and will destroy some plants), 2-3 day period of darkness. The first 2 methods kill the diatoms and the 3rd starves them. A 100% water change will also remove them but lands a risk of disrupting the cycle also.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      So if your cycle has not started, you can do a 100% water change and give some respite to the fish temporarily and start to establishing the cycle once again. If your fishstore agrees to keep the fish with them till your cycle ends, it is most advised. Else use a mature filter to help the cycle. I have had my tanks cycled by using filter media from a mature tank in just 5 days. If your tank is fully cycled and ammonia readings were false, switch off the lights for 2 days and cover the tank with a sheet so that no light goes in there. 2-3 days and the diatoms will perish. If nothing works, then use 1ml of 3.5% hydrogen peroxide per gallon of water to treat your tank and do a 50% water change to reduce the H2O2 concentration after 2 hrs. but your have to be carefull as it will damage delicate plants.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                       


                                                                                                      From: Joseph Pascavage [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                      Sent: 09 March 2004 13:19
                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                        How big were the feeders and 'fancy' fish that you stocked?  The 'so-called' 'rule-of-thumb', ie, 'an-inch-per-gallon' does'nt hold true if you consider a two inch fish can be four or more times larger than a one inch fish, if length is the faulty determinant for gauging waste products relative to your biological filter volume. Plants could'nt possibly utilize the waste products generated by an overstocked tank, and what you describe is more that an expected algal-bloom when establishing bacterial-colonies in a newly set-up tank. Using de-ammoniators in an overstocked tank eliminates the ammonia that bacteria need to consume in order to multiply into an ammonia buffer. If there's no ammonia, because of the ammonia-neutralizer, there is'nt ammonia available to be broken down into nitrites. While I'm not an expert, while your nitrates are low, there seems to be something  in fish-waste that feeds algae that has caused an appalling growth of algae. If you continue adding chemical-neutralizer, your ammonia willnever be there to feed the nitro-bacteria. Adding anti-algal drugs/chemicals to your situation will probably kill your plants and damage, if you have one, your biological filter, and fish, if you use enough to eliminate the volume you're describing. I don't thing your filtration is adequate to your needs. A cannister-filter with micron filtration would be part of a rational approach for filtering, and checking and cleaning the filter frequently, at least as long as you have your current problem, would be routine. Diluting your current excess with frequent water changes would be advisable, and from what I've read in this list recently, someone with more experience than me could give you a %'age, but I'd start with 50% daily 'till I noticed a drastic improvement. I don't think you have adequate biological filtration, a trickle-filter, either a hang-on or an under the cabinet type would be advisable, in my meager estimation.  Or if you have the determination, tear the tank down and install an under gravel filter. I've used Whisper for years, but would never rely on them solely for biological filtration. You have more goldfish than I had in a 75 gallon tank, that's why I think you're overstocked. Nitro-bacteria are aerobic, that's why I think you need more bio-filtration, and a static gravel-bed does'nt allow for oxygen relating to every part of the gravel-bed. ASn UndreGravelFilter would mitigate that, and a trickle hang-on ,or under the cabinet rig, would greatly increase the volume for aerobic nitro-bacteria to fix upon.  The fish you mentioned can become VERY LARGE/BIG/GIGANTIC++++++++ quickly, and  while you have what I consider a small tank for such a community, I think you should consider something much larger if you wish to have something that does'nt resemble a sardine-can soon, or consider removing some of the creatures.

                                                                                                                                                Joe P.

                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:11 PM

                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                      I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                      This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                      So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                      I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                      Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                      Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                      But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                      Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                      And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                      Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.




                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1194 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "PosterTank" of what not to do......
                                                                                                        H'lo Bucks_Boogie,
                                                                                                       .................but I feel no-ones addressed, adequately, Cindy's filtration? I could never have considered keeping so many fish, and Goldfish at that, with a Whisper 300 as the only filter. If y'all think she needs more/better filtration, I believe lots of re-enforcement is necessary.
                                                                                                                       Jo P.
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:44 AM
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "PosterTank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                      I'm sure your comments about high ammonia have been addressed.  However,
                                                                                                      haven't checked the rest of the msgs, so here goes.  The more Ammo Lock
                                                                                                      you add, the higher false readings you're going to get from your tester.
                                                                                                      Liquid testers use a nessler reagent and Ammo Lock and Amquel each give
                                                                                                      false readings then.  You might want to buy Dri Tabs testers by Aquarium
                                                                                                      Pharm.  Drop the duration of you lights to 9 hours or so.  Also, don't
                                                                                                      use things like AlgaeFix, they contain carcinogens.  Try using barley
                                                                                                      straw pellets and bury them in your substrate.  Don't gravel vac near
                                                                                                      that area for a couple of months.  They will slowly decay and release
                                                                                                      tannic and humeric acids in the water which interfere with algaes
                                                                                                      ability to form.  You find this stuff with the pond products.  I first
                                                                                                      used this in my pond, but used it in my 46 bow during an outbreak of
                                                                                                      hair algae.  Worked great.  It's not a cure all, but it should help
                                                                                                      some.  I would also look into the lights that came with the tank, quite
                                                                                                      often the spectrum is appealing to the eye, but is the wrong spectrum
                                                                                                      for plants.  The less than perfect spectrum is great for growing algae,
                                                                                                      though.  BTW, PetSmart's usually have back up Dri Tabs to test with in
                                                                                                      addition to the liquid testers.  Just have to ask the staff to find
                                                                                                      them.

                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!



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                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1195 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: snails
                                                                                                      Blank
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Can you put ramshorn  snails in  with mystery snails?
                                                                                                      crys
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1196 From: mike mather Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: ordering online
                                                                                                      Theresa, I ordered a couple of Dwarf Neon Rainbows about six months ago from Fish2U. The fish were in great shape when I received them and they are doing beautiful today. The company is located in Florida and I live in California, which cost me 20 to 25 dollars in shipping. I can't say I would do it again unless I saw a fish I couldn't live without. I do live in a small town and am limited on choices at the
                                                                                                      lfs. I think the fish may be in better health with less chance of disease because of direct shipment(less changing of hands), but you have to weight the costs.       Good Luck!!       Mike
                                                                                                      Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      Just wondering if anyone has ordered fish online, from whom, and what kind of experience you've had.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      I've been having some bad luck with a couple lfs and the best store for a variety of fish is quite a drive from here. I've found what I'm looking for at Fish2U.com but I'm still a bit nervous about ordering fish online.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Thanks.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Theresa


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                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1197 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Photos from 1996 of now gone 75 Goldfish tank, and current tank a
                                                                                                      Got to thinking about Cindys' Goldfish tank, and her Plecostomii,
                                                                                                      and remembered I had photos tucked around somewhere. They're really
                                                                                                      quite bad photos (Poloroid), and I'm not yet adept at digital
                                                                                                      photography, but the goldfish, 75 gallon, had an undergravel filter,
                                                                                                      and a Hagen and Whisper, and both of them were quite large. The
                                                                                                      plants in the tropical 75 were Hygro, and they quite flourished 'till
                                                                                                      the tank aged and/or the plants reached the end of their cycle. Then
                                                                                                      I started again with young HYGRO. Joe P.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1198 From: r_ohle Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      Thanks Nim - I'd say I have a high light set up. Would you beleive 4
                                                                                                      6500K





                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                      Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > 10-14hrs per day. If you have a high light setup, then 10 - 11
                                                                                                      hrs, if you
                                                                                                      > have a low light setup then 10 - 14 hrs. if you start to get algae
                                                                                                      at 14 hr,
                                                                                                      > start reducing the interval or drop back to 10 and gradually
                                                                                                      increase to see
                                                                                                      > what effect it has on algae and plants. Rely on instincts.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Nim
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      > >From: r_ohle [mailto:albino@p...]
                                                                                                      > >Sent: 09 March 2004 07:29
                                                                                                      > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >Hello,
                                                                                                      > >I have a question regarding the amount of time the lights are on
                                                                                                      in
                                                                                                      > >the aquarium. What is the standard , if you will, for the length
                                                                                                      of
                                                                                                      > >the photoperiod. I am hoping to grow my own aquatc plants and
                                                                                                      would
                                                                                                      > >appreciate any info. ~~Thank you~~
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1199 From: r_ohle Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      Hi John,
                                                                                                      You are waty ahead of my current knowledge. Can you give a quick
                                                                                                      lesson on a CO2 system
                                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                                      red-eye



                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                      Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > John,
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Interestingly, I never investigated in that directions as extra
                                                                                                      light always
                                                                                                      > does invite algae, worse that many of the nutrients like
                                                                                                      phosphates etc are
                                                                                                      > things that plants can never eradicate from the tank are the ones
                                                                                                      that
                                                                                                      > trigger algae. Again, it would be interesting to experiment myself
                                                                                                      when my
                                                                                                      > CO2 system is working again that how things behave. Fish obviously
                                                                                                      will not
                                                                                                      > like it but that does not mean that plants also don't. there is
                                                                                                      some truth
                                                                                                      > about it as the process of photosynthesis builds up gradually and
                                                                                                      not just
                                                                                                      > like an on-off switch. So if we have 12hrs of light, the effective
                                                                                                      period
                                                                                                      > for which we are having photosynthesis is 10 hrs and 10hrs of
                                                                                                      rest. in a
                                                                                                      > 18hr period, the photosynthesis period would be 16hrs and 4 hrs of
                                                                                                      rest. Not
                                                                                                      > a biologist, but I think the rest period also needs to be there
                                                                                                      and has to
                                                                                                      > be a considerable amount as compared to the working period. I also
                                                                                                      could be
                                                                                                      > wrong on this. Lets see some other replies on this subject :-).
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > On another view, this would work very well if you have no other
                                                                                                      limiting
                                                                                                      > nutrients: CO2, Nitrogen, Trace elements etc. in a non CO2 tank,
                                                                                                      18hr period
                                                                                                      > can be a disaster as after a certain time, the plants would be
                                                                                                      limited by
                                                                                                      > the amount of CO2 dissolved in the water and the excess nutrients
                                                                                                      will then
                                                                                                      > help algae. If you are providing regular CO2, and there are enough
                                                                                                      of other
                                                                                                      > nutrients available, the plants will keep kicking. This will also
                                                                                                      mean that
                                                                                                      > since excess of nutrients are being made available for an extended
                                                                                                      period of
                                                                                                      > time, there is no reason why algae should not kick in. main
                                                                                                      nutrient source
                                                                                                      > of algae is Light, nitrates and phosphates. If any one of these
                                                                                                      depletes to
                                                                                                      > a level to starve algae, it will most defiantly starve plants and
                                                                                                      cause a
                                                                                                      > much more adverse effect on creating an imbalance of nutrients. It
                                                                                                      would be
                                                                                                      > a very rare case that it is successful.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Nim
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > _____
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > From: John [mailto:john@c...]
                                                                                                      > Sent: 09 March 2004 15:25
                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > HI
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > I'm still getting to grips with my first planted aquarium and this
                                                                                                      is a
                                                                                                      > sibject that I have thought about a lot. I also grow plants
                                                                                                      hydroponicaly,
                                                                                                      > basically because I dont have a garden. Drawing on my experince
                                                                                                      from both
                                                                                                      > this and fishkeeping I actually think the lights should be on for
                                                                                                      around 18
                                                                                                      > hours! I appreciate that this could cause an algea breakout but
                                                                                                      surely if
                                                                                                      > the plants are absorbing all of the nutrients then there will be
                                                                                                      little
                                                                                                      > chance of algea appearing in the first place. Combine that with a
                                                                                                      few algea
                                                                                                      > loving fish would you get much if any algea ? I know that plants
                                                                                                      certainly
                                                                                                      > grow better when given 18 plus hours of light a day, in fact in
                                                                                                      hydroponics
                                                                                                      > the only time you have the light on for less than 18 hours is when
                                                                                                      you are
                                                                                                      > trying to make the plants fruit.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Any other comments appreciated, as I say this is my first planted
                                                                                                      tank so I
                                                                                                      > may be completely wrong.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > John
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > From: Nimish Mathur <mailto:nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:12 AM
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > 10-14hrs per day. If you have a high light setup, then 10 - 11
                                                                                                      hrs, if you
                                                                                                      > have a low light setup then 10 - 14 hrs. if you start to get algae
                                                                                                      at 14 hr,
                                                                                                      > start reducing the interval or drop back to 10 and gradually
                                                                                                      increase to see
                                                                                                      > what effect it has on algae and plants. Rely on instincts.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Nim
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      > >From: r_ohle [mailto:albino@p...]
                                                                                                      > >Sent: 09 March 2004 07:29
                                                                                                      > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >Hello,
                                                                                                      > >I have a question regarding the amount of time the lights are on
                                                                                                      in
                                                                                                      > >the aquarium. What is the standard , if you will, for the length
                                                                                                      of
                                                                                                      > >the photoperiod. I am hoping to grow my own aquatc plants and
                                                                                                      would
                                                                                                      > >appreciate any info. ~~Thank you~~
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > _____
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                      subject=U
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                                                                                                      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1200 From: r_ohle Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      Oh ..no... you can shock the fish with a light fixture? Can fixtures
                                                                                                      be put on dimmers easily?
                                                                                                      Regards,
                                                                                                      red-eye





                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                      j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                      > My tank almost always had Hygrophilia, and it grew most in
                                                                                                      winter, here in Pennsylvania, USA. I had my lights attached to
                                                                                                      dimmers that I sometimes used, to accomodate the need to not shock
                                                                                                      the fish by sudden light changes. I never notced or catalogued a
                                                                                                      difference in growth patterns except the plants seemed to grow more
                                                                                                      in winter.
                                                                                                      > Joe P.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1201 From: r_ohle Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: test kits
                                                                                                      Hello,
                                                                                                      Question regarding test kits.... what do you tell a newbie?
                                                                                                      Regards,
                                                                                                      red-eye
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1202 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: lighting photoperiod
                                                                                                      Flourescents need expensive ballast, incandescents don't. Incandescents can be dimmed with fixtures from Radio Shack or X10. The more exotic kinds of lighting, I don't know about, but whoever sells them should have that information. A book written by a Phd. (Icthyologist) recommended dimmers because sudden light changes can stress fish. That sounded sensible, so I adapted it.
                                                                                                      Joe P.
                                                                                                      > Oh ..no... you can shock the fish with a light fixture? Can fixtures
                                                                                                      > be put on dimmers easily?
                                                                                                      > Regards,
                                                                                                      > red-eye
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                      > j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                      > > My tank almost always had Hygrophilia, and it grew most in
                                                                                                      > winter, here in Pennsylvania, USA. I had my lights attached to
                                                                                                      > dimmers that I sometimes used, to accomodate the need to not shock
                                                                                                      > the fish by sudden light changes. I never notced or catalogued a
                                                                                                      > difference in growth patterns except the plants seemed to grow more
                                                                                                      > in winter.
                                                                                                      > > Joe P.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1203 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: post 1197-addendum
                                                                                                      H'LO,
                                                                                                      ......er, I forgot to post that I added rather bad photos
                                                                                                      relating to my last post in the thread relating to Cindy's problem.
                                                                                                      They're bad Poloroids from 1996 or before, but they DO show two
                                                                                                      goldfish in a 75 gallon tank, with an UGF and two large (Hagen and
                                                                                                      Whisper) hang-on filters which are not visible. The album title
                                                                                                      starts with;
                                                                                                      Old Poloroids.....

                                                                                                      Joe P.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1204 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/9/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                      Joe, I really don’t know what is a Whisper 300 filter so cannot comment on that. We don’t get Whisper filters in the UK .

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                       


                                                                                                      From: Joseph Pascavage [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                      Sent: 09 March 2004 23:17
                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                        Nim,

                                                                                                           Do you think Cindy's Whisper 300 is adequate to her needs?

                                                                                                                           Joe.P.

                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:26 AM

                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      I agree totally on the use of chemicals in the water. things that claim to remove ammonia and things will in 90% cases disrupt your cycle. It is possible that this is one of the reasons why your cycle has not taken place. Regarding the over stocking issue, I will not comment on it as I am a culprit myself. My planted 105 gallon has fish of 130” and none are smaller then 2”. So it is indeed extremely stocked, another 25 gallon has about 40 fish of 1.5” average each. Needless to say what state it is in. but excessive plant growth and regular maintenance keeps things in good control. The 3rd ironic 105 gallon tank has 2 goldfish(4-5” head to tail tip black moors). Beat that.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Green water algae is basically diatoms. Their main source of nutrient is light. Minor water changes will not deter them in any way and the only thing in my experience has been effective against them are: UV Filters (too expensive and not for regular use), 1ml Hydrogen Peroxide per gallon (can and will destroy some plants), 2-3 day period of darkness. The first 2 methods kill the diatoms and the 3rd starves them. A 100% water change will also remove them but lands a risk of disrupting the cycle also.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      So if your cycle has not started, you can do a 100% water change and give some respite to the fish temporarily and start to establishing the cycle once again. If your fishstore agrees to keep the fish with them till your cycle ends, it is most advised. Else use a mature filter to help the cycle. I have had my tanks cycled by using filter media from a mature tank in just 5 days. If your tank is fully cycled and ammonia readings were false, switch off the lights for 2 days and cover the tank with a sheet so that no light goes in there. 2-3 days and the diatoms will perish. If nothing works, then use 1ml of 3.5% hydrogen peroxide per gallon of water to treat your tank and do a 50% water change to reduce the H2O2 concentration after 2 hrs. but your have to be carefull as it will damage delicate plants.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                       


                                                                                                      From: Joseph Pascavage [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                      Sent: 09 March 2004 13:19
                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                        How big were the feeders and 'fancy' fish that you stocked?  The 'so-called' 'rule-of-thumb', ie, 'an-inch-per-gallon' does'nt hold true if you consider a two inch fish can be four or more times larger than a one inch fish, if length is the faulty determinant for gauging waste products relative to your biological filter volume. Plants could'nt possibly utilize the waste products generated by an overstocked tank, and what you describe is more that an expected algal-bloom when establishing bacterial-colonies in a newly set-up tank. Using de-ammoniators in an overstocked tank eliminates the ammonia that bacteria need to consume in order to multiply into an ammonia buffer. If there's no ammonia, because of the ammonia-neutralizer, there is'nt ammonia available to be broken down into nitrites. While I'm not an expert, while your nitrates are low, there seems to be something  in fish-waste that feeds algae that has caused an appalling growth of algae. If you continue adding chemical-neutralizer, your ammonia willnever be there to feed the nitro-bacteria. Adding anti-algal drugs/chemicals to your situation will probably kill your plants and damage, if you have one, your biological filter, and fish, if you use enough to eliminate the volume you're describing. I don't thing your filtration is adequate to your needs. A cannister-filter with micron filtration would be part of a rational approach for filtering, and checking and cleaning the filter frequently, at least as long as you have your current problem, would be routine. Diluting your current excess with frequent water changes would be advisable, and from what I've read in this list recently, someone with more experience than me could give you a %'age, but I'd start with 50% daily 'till I noticed a drastic improvement. I don't think you have adequate biological filtration, a trickle-filter, either a hang-on or an under the cabinet type would be advisable, in my meager estimation.  Or if you have the determination, tear the tank down and install an under gravel filter. I've used Whisper for years, but would never rely on them solely for biological filtration. You have more goldfish than I had in a 75 gallon tank, that's why I think you're overstocked. Nitro-bacteria are aerobic, that's why I think you need more bio-filtration, and a static gravel-bed does'nt allow for oxygen relating to every part of the gravel-bed. ASn UndreGravelFilter would mitigate that, and a trickle hang-on ,or under the cabinet rig, would greatly increase the volume for aerobic nitro-bacteria to fix upon.  The fish you mentioned can become VERY LARGE/BIG/GIGANTIC++++++++ quickly, and  while you have what I consider a small tank for such a community, I think you should consider something much larger if you wish to have something that does'nt resemble a sardine-can soon, or consider removing some of the creatures.

                                                                                                                                                Joe P.

                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:11 PM

                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] "Poster Tank" of what not to do......

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      I have learned a lot from various online fish lists - thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge!!!  I apologize in advance if you see this post a couple of times - each list has so much to offer !!

                                                                                                      I am getting back into fish. Years ago, I had a 55 gallon tank that I maintained with Discus - absolutely loved it, the tank was pretty and the fish did great.  I have been without a tank for over 10 years, but have decided to get back into fish.

                                                                                                      This time, I didn't want a tank quite as large, and wanted to go with fish that weren't as labor intensive as the Discus.  I have a 46 gallon tank with fancy goldfish - all have names and it is great fun to watch the different personalities ;-)

                                                                                                      So, why am I writing? Because, it seems as though I have made every mistake in the book this time - and have all of the related problems to go with it. It was so easy last time, not sure why I am having so much trouble this go around.

                                                                                                      I set up the tank at the first of the year.  Gravel with laterite mixed in, outside Whisper 300 power filter, underwater heater.  Tank at 72 degrees.  Put in a few feeder gold fish and when they did well, started to add the fancy goldfish.  Still have one of the original feeders, have 10 fancy goldfish and 1 plecostomus.  Early on, we lost 2 feeders and 2 catfish, but all current fish are lively and look good. Have a twin tube fluorescent light and live plants. Use a liquid fertilitzer after water changes. I have the light on a timer, on for 12 hours in 2 shifts.  On from 6-7:30 in the am, when I feed the fish, and on again from 2 pm - 11: pm.

                                                                                                      Problems:  Ammonia has been high (test kits turns dark green) for over 5 weeks.  I test every other day, and add Ammo Lock.  The ammonia is not coming down.  The Nitrites are zero, and the nitrates are low.  Yes, I have this correct.  I would seem that my tank has not cycled, with the ammonia being so high, but there are nitrates (the end product) and no nitrites, the middle product.

                                                                                                      Another problem: Cloudy water.  We had a problem with cloudy water for a while, that we figured out was overfeeding the fish.  They are always hungry, and both my husband and I were enjoying feeding them. We fixed that by me being the only feeder and I only feed once per day.  I feed some flakes, floating pellets and sinking pellets - variety, but small amounts of each.  As I learned on the list, if I am gone for the weekend, I don't worry about them getting fed - and they have been fine so far.

                                                                                                      But..the biggest problem right now, besides the long standing ammonia elevation, is that the water is a thick green.  Unless the fish are practically touching the front glass, you can't see a thing. It is almost a fluorescent green.  So, we have algae - but I thought the live plants would help with that.  And, the light is on only long enough for the plants. I don't want the algae, but I'd like to keep the plants alive too.  Although, with the water so cloudy, I'm not sure how the plants are doing right now.  I am hesitant to add any type of algae remover - as I would think that all of the chemicals that I have been adding can't be good in the long run.

                                                                                                      Mistakes I made - constant water changes, and vacuuming the gravel when the ammonia was high.  I guess I wasn't letting the good bacteria stay in the tank. I was cleaning the filter out too much also?  The power filter has a sponge and carbon in it.  I have left them alone for the last couple of weeks.  Adding fish too quickly - I added 2-3 fish each week, not letting the bacteria ever catch up.  I'm thinking that this attributed to the ammonia being high for so long.

                                                                                                      And, I am sure there are more.  Any help to get this tank back on track would be appreciated.

                                                                                                      Cindy and the assorted goldfish: Sunny, Spot, Speck, Silver, Scarlet, Sparky, Spook, Nugget, Pumpkin and Sebra.



                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1205 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Whisper 300
                                                                                                      Cindy,
                                                                                                      Before going to work this morning, I searched GOOGLE for
                                                                                                      the 'Whisper 300', and all I could find was an entry in the third
                                                                                                      search-page that the 'Whisper 300 is for aquariums up to 15 gallons.
                                                                                                      Minimally 1/3or less of what you need. Joe
                                                                                                      Pascavage
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1206 From: tbittick Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: plant update
                                                                                                      Well... while I still have not been able to add any fish to my tank (taking
                                                                                                      a water sample to the LFS tonight) I can happily report that my plants are
                                                                                                      doing wonderfully.

                                                                                                      I have two banana plants which didn't look so hot when I got them home from
                                                                                                      the LFS... they're both sprouting new shoots and leaves. I've read that you
                                                                                                      can plant the shoots in the substrate and they'll grow new banana plants.
                                                                                                      Thinking about trying this.

                                                                                                      I also have several anachris that are sprouting new shoots and or just
                                                                                                      growing from the tops of the old one.

                                                                                                      So at least this part has worked out pretty well.

                                                                                                      Tony
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1207 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: ordering online
                                                                                                      Thanks for the info!
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      I'm between Fish2U and LiveAquaria.com. The fish I'm looking for I can't find around here at any of the lfs. There are a few fish I want for each tank...some are sold out right now so I'm holding off so I can just place one order.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Theresa
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:51 PM
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ordering online

                                                                                                      Theresa, I ordered a couple of Dwarf Neon Rainbows about six months ago from Fish2U. The fish were in great shape when I received them and they are doing beautiful today. The company is located in Florida and I live in California, which cost me 20 to 25 dollars in shipping. I can't say I would do it again unless I saw a fish I couldn't live without. I do live in a small town and am limited on choices at the
                                                                                                      lfs. I think the fish may be in better health with less chance of disease because of direct shipment(less changing of hands), but you have to weight the costs.       Good Luck!!       Mike

                                                                                                      Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                      Just wondering if anyone has ordered fish online, from whom, and what kind of experience you've had.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      I've been having some bad luck with a couple lfs and the best store for a variety of fish is quite a drive from here. I've found what I'm looking for at Fish2U.com but I'm still a bit nervous about ordering fish online.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Thanks.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Theresa
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1208 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Different fish
                                                                                                      Not sure if this is similar to what you're looking for...it's called
                                                                                                      'crescent' but looks more Mickey Mouse to me
                                                                                                      http://www.fish2u.com/fish2u/whitcresplat.html

                                                                                                      This site also lists a 'snow white mickey mouse', it's the last link on the
                                                                                                      page http://www.aquariumstuffers.com/products/list.cfm?CategoryID=28


                                                                                                      Personally I like the silver wag they offer...I have 9 different platies
                                                                                                      right now.


                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      From: "dolph72.geo" <dolph72@...>
                                                                                                      To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:12 PM
                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Different fish


                                                                                                      > Today as I was wandering from pet store to pet store, I saw a
                                                                                                      > type of fish I have never seen before. It was a white Mickey Mouse
                                                                                                      > platy. I have seen the bluish variety and this was certainly not any
                                                                                                      > shade of that. The main question that I have is if anyone else has
                                                                                                      > seen these at various pet stores around the world. If they are
                                                                                                      > somewhat uncommon I may be more apt to purchase them quicker than if
                                                                                                      > I can find them some other time later on. Any sightings would be
                                                                                                      > appreciated.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Randy Clark
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1209 From: Carol Schnipke Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Different fish
                                                                                                      Speaking of platys, Has anyone ever seen platys that are rainbow colored.
                                                                                                      green, orange and red?
                                                                                                      Carol

                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1210 From: hotflash Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: new to the list with question
                                                                                                      Hi, I put away my 55 gal long about 9 years ago. (sob, weep) It has been
                                                                                                      stored in the attic-a very well vented attic but an attic just the same. I
                                                                                                      have noticed that most new tanks of that size are 50 gal. Do you all think
                                                                                                      the seals still have there integrity? I am going to test it in the kitchen
                                                                                                      but what do you think the risks are over time.. Thanks Donna
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1211 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: new to the list with question
                                                                                                      It is possible/likely that the sealant has dry rotted over time. This
                                                                                                      will not be that hard to remedy though. If you go to your LFS they
                                                                                                      should have an aquarium safe sealant to repair your tank with.Please
                                                                                                      do not use any old sealant from your local hardware store it will be
                                                                                                      toxic to your fish even after it has set up.
                                                                                                      Testing it first is a good idea but I would do it out side. and
                                                                                                      leave the water in it for a few days. Just because it doesn't leak
                                                                                                      right off the bat does not mean that the sealant is not weak and may
                                                                                                      spring a leak a little later on.

                                                                                                      Hope this helps
                                                                                                      Mike

                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, hotflash
                                                                                                      <hotflash@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > Hi, I put away my 55 gal long about 9 years ago. (sob, weep) It has
                                                                                                      been
                                                                                                      > stored in the attic-a very well vented attic but an attic just the
                                                                                                      same. I
                                                                                                      > have noticed that most new tanks of that size are 50 gal. Do you
                                                                                                      all think
                                                                                                      > the seals still have there integrity? I am going to test it in the
                                                                                                      kitchen
                                                                                                      > but what do you think the risks are over time.. Thanks Donna
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1212 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: firebelly toads
                                                                                                      Blank
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Does   anyone know anything  about  firebelly toads?
                                                                                                      crys
                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1213 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Uploaded some pics

                                                                                                      Guys, I have uploaded some pics in the photo section. Had a few more, but I think the limit has reached (moderators)

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Check them out. And please, don’t be jealous of my Boesmani rainbows :P I am proud of them and they re awesome

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1214 From: ricboese911 Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: diy co2
                                                                                                      Hello all I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could help me
                                                                                                      out? I ran across a diy CO2 device that was made with pcv pipe the
                                                                                                      other day on the internet and it had pics and such and now I can't
                                                                                                      find it. Would anyone maybe know where it is or has similar plans for
                                                                                                      a diy co2 system. We currently have the pop bottles going and also a
                                                                                                      canister type of co2. Thank you, Ric
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1215 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: sunday, sunday
                                                                                                      Took my water sample to the LFS today... long story short he said to stop
                                                                                                      using the Bacter Vital and that by Sunday we should be able to do fish.
                                                                                                      ACTUALLY what he said is that it's likely we could do fish now, but that
                                                                                                      we'd be better off doing them on Sunday.

                                                                                                      We've waited this long, I'm willing to wait a little longer.

                                                                                                      As for the water the Nitrites looked they had been reduced and there was a
                                                                                                      fair amount of nitrates.

                                                                                                      I took this to be good news.

                                                                                                      He told me to bring in another water sample on Sunday and that he'd test it
                                                                                                      for me then. I've got a feeling he's going to clear us for fish then which
                                                                                                      is to say he'll replace anything that dies.

                                                                                                      I'm looking at Serpae Tetras right now.

                                                                                                      Tony
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1216 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/10/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: sunday, sunday
                                                                                                      Great news Tony :) good luck

                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 11 March 2004 02:12
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] sunday, sunday
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Took my water sample to the LFS today... long story short he said to stop
                                                                                                      >using the Bacter Vital and that by Sunday we should be able to do fish.
                                                                                                      >ACTUALLY what he said is that it's likely we could do fish now, but that
                                                                                                      >we'd be better off doing them on Sunday.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >We've waited this long, I'm willing to wait a little longer.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >As for the water the Nitrites looked they had been reduced and there was a
                                                                                                      >fair amount of nitrates.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >I took this to be good news.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >He told me to bring in another water sample on Sunday and that he'd test it
                                                                                                      >for me then. I've got a feeling he's going to clear us for fish then which
                                                                                                      >is to say he'll replace anything that dies.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >I'm looking at Serpae Tetras right now.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Tony
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1217 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Uploaded some pics
                                                                                                      Hi Nim,

                                                                                                      Thank you for sharing those beautiful photos with us. I will be sure
                                                                                                      to include them into the rotation of other photos on the main page.

                                                                                                      According to the stats at the bottm of the Photos section,
                                                                                                      Using 15.50 of 30 MB (51%), there is plenty more space available. A
                                                                                                      way to help leave enogh room for everybody is to Please DELETE FULL
                                                                                                      SIZE by clicking on the Full Size option above the picture -
                                                                                                      View: Screen Size | Full Size - Then click - Delete full size only -
                                                                                                      this will not erase your picture, just reduce amount of space being
                                                                                                      used. You will see a warning - Warning: This operation will
                                                                                                      permanently delete only the high resolution version of the photo you
                                                                                                      have selected. It will not delete the sharing/viewing version. By
                                                                                                      deleting the high resolution version, you will be limiting the
                                                                                                      quality of prints you can order from this photo. Are you sure you
                                                                                                      want to delete? - then click - Confirm Delete.

                                                                                                      Thanks for the pictures,

                                                                                                      Aaron

                                                                                                      p.s. ~ you can also upload more to the other group I own:

                                                                                                      FishTankPics
                                                                                                      The place to share Aquarium pictures!
                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/


                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                      Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > Guys, I have uploaded some pics in the photo section. Had a few
                                                                                                      more, but I
                                                                                                      > think the limit has reached (moderators)
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Check them out. And please, don't be jealous of my Boesmani
                                                                                                      rainbows :P I am
                                                                                                      > proud of them and they re awesome
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Nim
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1218 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: diy co2
                                                                                                      Hi Ric,

                                                                                                      Welcome to the group.
                                                                                                      I have some pictures and files re: DIY CO2 that you can locate in
                                                                                                      the Left Column, Photos > Photo Albums > Aquariums > Equipment > DIY
                                                                                                      CO2 System for Planted Aquariums
                                                                                                      and Files > DIY CO2 Reactor for Planted Aquarium.txt

                                                                                                      Hope that helps,

                                                                                                      Aaron


                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "ricboese911"
                                                                                                      <ric911@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > Hello all I am new to this list and wondered if anyone could help
                                                                                                      me
                                                                                                      > out? I ran across a diy CO2 device that was made with pcv pipe the
                                                                                                      > other day on the internet and it had pics and such and now I can't
                                                                                                      > find it. Would anyone maybe know where it is or has similar plans
                                                                                                      for
                                                                                                      > a diy co2 system. We currently have the pop bottles going and also
                                                                                                      a
                                                                                                      > canister type of co2. Thank you, Ric
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1219 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Uploaded some pics
                                                                                                      Hi Aaron,

                                                                                                      I am awaiting to borrow someones better digital camera to get clearer
                                                                                                      pictures. Will replace these ones then.

                                                                                                      The message I got was not of the space. It was of a max 100 pictures per
                                                                                                      album is allowed. Try and upload a new pic in there and see if you also get
                                                                                                      the message or is it only me?

                                                                                                      Surprisingly, most of the pics I put there are between 15k - 40k in size,
                                                                                                      except for the 2 pics of the main tank that are 80-100k. this is full
                                                                                                      resolution pics. I will get rid of the full resolution versions of the big
                                                                                                      ones.

                                                                                                      Still struggling to take good pics of my rainbows :(

                                                                                                      Nim


                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt [mailto:anonymous122899@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 11 March 2004 10:19
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Uploaded some pics
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Hi Nim,
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Thank you for sharing those beautiful photos with us. I will be sure
                                                                                                      >to include them into the rotation of other photos on the main page.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >According to the stats at the bottm of the Photos section,
                                                                                                      >Using 15.50 of 30 MB (51%), there is plenty more space available. A
                                                                                                      >way to help leave enogh room for everybody is to Please DELETE FULL
                                                                                                      >SIZE by clicking on the Full Size option above the picture -
                                                                                                      > View: Screen Size | Full Size - Then click - Delete full size only -
                                                                                                      > this will not erase your picture, just reduce amount of space being
                                                                                                      >used. You will see a warning - Warning: This operation will
                                                                                                      >permanently delete only the high resolution version of the photo you
                                                                                                      >have selected. It will not delete the sharing/viewing version. By
                                                                                                      >deleting the high resolution version, you will be limiting the
                                                                                                      >quality of prints you can order from this photo. Are you sure you
                                                                                                      >want to delete? - then click - Confirm Delete.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Thanks for the pictures,
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Aaron
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >p.s. ~ you can also upload more to the other group I own:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >FishTankPics
                                                                                                      >The place to share Aquarium pictures!
                                                                                                      >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                      >Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >> Guys, I have uploaded some pics in the photo section. Had a few
                                                                                                      >more, but I
                                                                                                      >> think the limit has reached (moderators)
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Check them out. And please, don't be jealous of my Boesmani
                                                                                                      >rainbows :P I am
                                                                                                      >> proud of them and they re awesome
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Nim
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1220 From: Nicholas Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Think Tank
                                                                                                      Thanks! No idea to tell you the truth. Have only just moved in and
                                                                                                      will need to do the needy to test the water first. My guess however
                                                                                                      would be a PH of about 6.5-7.0 and soft.
                                                                                                      If this proves to be the case, any suggestions?
                                                                                                      What do you have in your tank(s)? Simply looking for some inspiration!

                                                                                                      T(h)anks again.

                                                                                                      Nic


                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                      bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                      > Nic, my question to you would be, what type of water comes out of
                                                                                                      your
                                                                                                      > tap? Hard and alkaline or soft and acidic?
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1221 From: Nicholas Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Freshwater crabs
                                                                                                      Hi Tony.
                                                                                                      Can only speak from my own limited experience. I found the last
                                                                                                      pair of crabs I had loved to hide under various rocks and pots
                                                                                                      but had a fettish for weeding. They managed to trim my Anubias
                                                                                                      and Saggitarias down from healty plants to shreds in a few hours.

                                                                                                      They worked well with neons as the little critters were far too
                                                                                                      small (and wary) to get into any trouble. Anything with flowing
                                                                                                      fins however were toast! Did you see the film 'Edward Scissorhands'?
                                                                                                      Same story. Or like taking my Betta to the barbers... "just the
                                                                                                      usual short back and sides, please" Snip, snip-snip-snip-snip.

                                                                                                      Was not impressed, as you can imagine.


                                                                                                      Good luck!

                                                                                                      Nic

                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "tbittick"
                                                                                                      <tbittick@p...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > Anybody have any experience with these? I've seen them in several
                                                                                                      different
                                                                                                      > stores and think they look really cool. Are they safe in community
                                                                                                      tanks? My
                                                                                                      > daughter and I have seen them a couple of times and one of them was
                                                                                                      eating a
                                                                                                      > dead fish. I wasn't clear as to whether it might have caught and
                                                                                                      killed this
                                                                                                      > fish or if it was scavenging.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Tony
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1222 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Think Tank
                                                                                                      You would be very lucky if you get soft acidic water. it turns out to be
                                                                                                      much easier to make this water hard alkaline then softening a hard water.

                                                                                                      My tap water (call it rock) is PH 8.2, GH 25 degrees, KH 12 degrees. Rift
                                                                                                      lake cichlids would feel at home here in England :)

                                                                                                      Nim


                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: Nicholas [mailto:nic123@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 11 March 2004 11:55
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Think Tank
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Thanks! No idea to tell you the truth. Have only just moved in and
                                                                                                      >will need to do the needy to test the water first. My guess however
                                                                                                      >would be a PH of about 6.5-7.0 and soft.
                                                                                                      >If this proves to be the case, any suggestions?
                                                                                                      >What do you have in your tank(s)? Simply looking for some inspiration!
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >T(h)anks again.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Nic
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                      >bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                      >> Nic, my question to you would be, what type of water comes out of
                                                                                                      >your
                                                                                                      >> tap? Hard and alkaline or soft and acidic?
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1223 From: John Clothier Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Think Tank
                                                                                                      I have exactly the same problem except my water is 8.9 ph! I'm actually considering buying RO water and mixing it with tap water just to try and balnce things a bit
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:06 PM
                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Think Tank

                                                                                                      You would be very lucky if you get soft acidic water. it turns out to be
                                                                                                      much easier to make this water hard alkaline then softening a hard water.

                                                                                                      My tap water (call it rock) is PH 8.2, GH 25 degrees, KH 12 degrees. Rift
                                                                                                      lake cichlids would feel at home here in England :)

                                                                                                      Nim


                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: Nicholas [mailto:nic123@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 11 March 2004 11:55
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Think Tank
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Thanks! No idea to tell you the truth. Have only just moved in and
                                                                                                      >will need to do the needy to test the water first. My guess however
                                                                                                      >would be a PH of about 6.5-7.0 and soft.
                                                                                                      >If this proves to be the case, any suggestions?
                                                                                                      >What do you have in your tank(s)? Simply looking for some inspiration!
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >T(h)anks again.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Nic
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                      >bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                      >> Nic, my question to you would be, what type of water comes out of
                                                                                                      >your
                                                                                                      >> tap?  Hard and alkaline or soft and acidic?
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1224 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Several points, please don't be offended.
                                                                                                      First, I've never heard of a Whisper 300 in my 36 years of fishkeeping.
                                                                                                      More often than not, people are referring to a Whisper 3 or an Aqua
                                                                                                      Clear 300, neither of which is enough for the tank in question.
                                                                                                      Personally, I don't care for Whispers. I've found them to be loud and
                                                                                                      cantankerous. You know, do some maintenance and you've got to mess with
                                                                                                      the impeller to get it going again, on and on... The Aqua Clear does a
                                                                                                      better job polishing the water when using the 2 sponge method then 2
                                                                                                      mess bags will any day. My problem with those is, I hate the way the
                                                                                                      sponge baskets push up after awhile. But it is a better filter. BTW,
                                                                                                      got a sneak peak at the Hydor brand of equipment coming out. GET THE
                                                                                                      HEATERS!!! Won't break when water gets too low, uses heatpads, like
                                                                                                      reptile tanks in shatterproof glass, very nice and the have filters that
                                                                                                      accept them right into then, but unlike the Tetra Tec, won't make the
                                                                                                      impeller rattle. Also have canister or sump tube inline heaters using
                                                                                                      the same technology. I bought one for my Fluval at a trade show, hasn't
                                                                                                      come in yet, though. Speaking of Fluvals, watch your motorhead o-rings,
                                                                                                      mine leaked, damaged the floor and had to move my 46 to the bedroom and
                                                                                                      that damaged corner of floor will only hold a twenty now. Not ripping
                                                                                                      up the floor, don't really mind the 46 where it is.
                                                                                                      Now, here's my complaint. I use WebTv as my internet provider. When
                                                                                                      people reply to posts and don't limit the parts of the original message
                                                                                                      to what's being discussed, or piggy back three of four messages on it, I
                                                                                                      get a message at the bottom of my screen that states, "This page is too
                                                                                                      big to be shown completely" and I end up only being able the read 1 or 2
                                                                                                      messages in an entire update. This is very disappointing, as I want to
                                                                                                      see what everybody has to say. Thank you if you can help. Maybe
                                                                                                      someone can tell me how to get the messages as single posts again? Is
                                                                                                      this even possible? Well anyhow,good luck to all. Bucks Boogie, aka
                                                                                                      Rob.

                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1225 From: tbittick Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: elephantnose
                                                                                                      Anybody have any of these?

                                                                                                      I've read some very interesting things about them online. When I was active
                                                                                                      some 20 years ago it was the only fish I had interest in that I never got a
                                                                                                      chance to see.

                                                                                                      Now the LFS has one and it's got me wondering. I've read a couple of
                                                                                                      different people who talk about being able to feed them by hand, which I
                                                                                                      think is way cool.

                                                                                                      I know they're jumpers and all access must be closed.

                                                                                                      I know they need hiding places and at least start out primarily nocturnal.

                                                                                                      I've seen one site that says they're better in multiples and one site that
                                                                                                      says you should only own one at a time. The LFS says either one or four.

                                                                                                      Input?
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1226 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: elephantnose
                                                                                                      Tony,

                                                                                                      Never kept them, but have been seeing them for the past 15 years or so. They
                                                                                                      are delicate fish that rely on electrical impulses more to move around then
                                                                                                      sight, something like a Bat. They need a soft substrate and optimum water
                                                                                                      quality.. probably higher quality then discus. Since they prefer dark tanks,
                                                                                                      having them in high light planted tanks is a bad idea.

                                                                                                      Don't know about their aggression, but as with most aggressive fish, keep
                                                                                                      them either alone, or in trios or more. This is to reduce the effective
                                                                                                      aggression. You cannot keep it with any aggressive fish either but having
                                                                                                      too many of them in a tank may cause them to behave unnaturally coz of the
                                                                                                      electrical sonar like system.

                                                                                                      These are specialist fish, and if you keep them, your tank has to be
                                                                                                      organized and maintained as per their requirement rather then community or
                                                                                                      planted.

                                                                                                      They don't like Nitrates at all so you must keep up with water changes. They
                                                                                                      are carnivore and feed mainly live foods from the gravel. If you have fish
                                                                                                      that wont let the food reach the gravel, chose something else.

                                                                                                      As for hand feeding, once your fish get to know you well, they will hand
                                                                                                      feed weather it is a elephant nose or a sting ray or an arowana or general
                                                                                                      tropical fish. My fish do feed from hand. Namely: Gold and pearl gourami,
                                                                                                      red tailed shark, Siamese algae eater, golden striped panchax(killi), gold
                                                                                                      barbs, sword tails, platies, guppy, rainbows, keyhole cichlid, betta and I
                                                                                                      am sure I missed a couple. The ones that don't feed from my hand are: zebra
                                                                                                      danios, krib, bolivian rams, pangasius catfish, corydoras, loaches,
                                                                                                      synodontis cats, plecs, that's about it.

                                                                                                      Some are so brave that they even feed from hand of strangers. Things like
                                                                                                      gouramis, gold barb and betta feed from any ones hand, rainbows, and other I
                                                                                                      listed feed only from mine.. not even from my wife's(she tried only once but
                                                                                                      is scared of the pangasius as it was labeled "Shark" in the fish store :P )

                                                                                                      Nim


                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 11 March 2004 17:31
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] elephantnose
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Anybody have any of these?
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >I've read some very interesting things about them online. When I was active
                                                                                                      >some 20 years ago it was the only fish I had interest in that I never got a
                                                                                                      >chance to see.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Now the LFS has one and it's got me wondering. I've read a couple of
                                                                                                      >different people who talk about being able to feed them by hand, which I
                                                                                                      >think is way cool.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >I know they're jumpers and all access must be closed.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >I know they need hiding places and at least start out primarily nocturnal.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >I've seen one site that says they're better in multiples and one site that
                                                                                                      >says you should only own one at a time. The LFS says either one or four.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Input?
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1227 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: ATTN ROB!
                                                                                                       I had to go switch my yahoo! group settings back to individual email. I'm not sure HOW my settings ended up at digest, but I was kinda irritated because it made me have to sit and read all day's worth of messages all at once, when honestly it's more convenient and easier for ME to read the messages as they come in and I can meander my way back to the computer.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      What you'll need to do is go to the group page at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/ and make sure you are signed in to yahoo. Then, click the "Edit My Membership" link that will be off to your right. You should see a heading that says "Message Delivery" and below that is Individual Mail, Daily Digest, etc. You'll want to make sure that Individual Mail is selected.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      I'm not familiar with WebTV as far as how to use it, as I'm a PC user, but I do understand that some things can be more complicated if people don't understand that WebTV users are accessing as well. (one of the main reasons I switched my personal website off of a frames set up was so that WebTV users could access as well! *smile*) I hope this helps! I'm going to CC this to your personal addy so that you'll be able to see it even if Daily Digest sticks it way at the bottom.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Date: 03/11/04 11:43:03
                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Several points, please don't be offended.
                                                                                                       <<snip>>
                                                                                                      Now, here's my complaint.  I use WebTv as my internet provider.  When
                                                                                                      people reply to posts and don't limit the parts of the original message
                                                                                                      to what's being discussed, or piggy back three of four messages on it, I
                                                                                                      get a message at the bottom of my screen that states, "This page is too
                                                                                                      big to be shown completely" and I end up only being able the read 1 or 2
                                                                                                      messages in an entire update.  This is very disappointing, as I want to
                                                                                                      see what everybody has to say.  Thank you if you can help.  Maybe
                                                                                                      someone can tell me how to get the messages as single posts again?  Is
                                                                                                      this even possible? 
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1228 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: More Boesmani Pics

                                                                                                      Phew. That’s 2 hrs of hard work in trying to get some better pics with my cam. The guy who was supposed to lend me one din turn up. Hence, still not that good quality, but flash has in many pics reduced the strength of colors in the fish.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Have a look and free to give awayJ . with such splendid fish, I wonder what is the need for dyed fish or GM fish at all?

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                      http://www.nimmat.com:81/boesmani/

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      ps: thanks Aaron for putting the pic on the home page J

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1229 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: elephantnose
                                                                                                      The only thing I do know, and you are right. They DO jump, The first
                                                                                                      time I kept fish (15 years ago). I woke up one morning to find my
                                                                                                      elephantnose on the ground dead. I have thought about getting
                                                                                                      another. Also just went though ick in my 40 and on the back of ick
                                                                                                      treatment it said, not to use on elephantnoses. Thats all I know but
                                                                                                      they are interesting little critters. Good luck Sherrie
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1230 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Several points, please don't be offended.
                                                                                                      In a message dated 3/11/2004 11:42:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, bucks_boogie@... writes:

                                                                                                      > But it is a better filter. BTW,
                                                                                                      > got a sneak peak at the Hydor brand of equipment coming
                                                                                                      > out. GET THE
                                                                                                      > HEATERS!!!

                                                                                                      IS their a retail outlet in the U.S. that sells this brand of filter? A couple months ago I was looking in a UK aquarium magazine and saw a small article on a new Hydor filter that was like a power head with a rotating sponge wheel. The outlet went through the sponge and the sponge wheel slowly rotates so part of it is always out of the water.
                                                                                                      Anyway, I thought it was as interesting idea and wanted to see how well it worked.

                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1231 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Different fish
                                                                                                      That is certainly what I had seen. It is also good to see that
                                                                                                      the prices listed online are comparible to what I have seen at the
                                                                                                      local fish stores. I guess I am just used to seeing everything all
                                                                                                      mixed together containing a little bit of everything, and being
                                                                                                      rather unspectacular. Thanks for the help!

                                                                                                      Randy Clark
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1232 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: DIY Co2 Reactor
                                                                                                      Hey all!  How is everyone doin today?!!  Well, I've taken out my UGF and installed my Eheim 2026 filter!  I also installed two 3 liter co2 injectors for my 80gal.  My question is this:  Currently I have the Co2 running into the tank via a hose and a fine bubbler.  However I'm getting about one bubble every 3 seconds or so.  Just ONE.  Any thoughts.  As of 10pm CST it's been running for about 2 - 21/2 hours.  A total of 6 liters should had been more than sufficient I thought.  I think I'm going to go get some tank sealant and secure the threads of the bulkhead fittings I'm using to see if that helps any.  Any other suggestions would be great. Oh my mixture in each bottle is 1/2 tsp and 3 cups sugar.  What would a better reactor be to use?  I want something that will be somewhat concealable.  I don't like to gaudy up my tank.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Thank you everyone!
                                                                                                      Edward
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1233 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/11/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Eheim 2026
                                                                                                      For all of you who use this product or close to it, how do you empty the hoses for maintance purposes?  When I turn it off the water just stands in the tubes so if I were to remove them, I'd get a nice wet floor filled with fish poop.  I don't want that particuarly, lol.  Also how much surface "breakage" do you all do?  Mine moves like a soft wave, no splashing, just smooth and calm.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Thank you all!

                                                                                                      Edward
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1234 From: Nimish Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eheim 2026
                                                                                                      You dont need to empty the hoses. every eheim comes with a twin tap
                                                                                                      for hoses. just turn every knob to off and seperate the taps. no
                                                                                                      water will flow out of the tank and none will flow from the filter
                                                                                                      except for a couple of drops.

                                                                                                      take the filter to the garden/garage or where ever you want to empty
                                                                                                      it. open the tap for the top (outlet) and then open the inlet tap
                                                                                                      keeping the hose level below the canister level and it will syphon
                                                                                                      out the filter water. the filter can then safely be opened.

                                                                                                      Nim
                                                                                                      ps: i dont use a eheim 2026, i use a 2215 model.

                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Sola"
                                                                                                      <esola@k...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > For all of you who use this product or close to it, how do you
                                                                                                      empty the hoses for maintance purposes? When I turn it off the water
                                                                                                      just stands in the tubes so if I were to remove them, I'd get a nice
                                                                                                      wet floor filled with fish poop. I don't want that particuarly,
                                                                                                      lol. Also how much surface "breakage" do you all do? Mine moves
                                                                                                      like a soft wave, no splashing, just smooth and calm.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Thank you all!
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Edward
                                                                                                      > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1235 From: Cyndy Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Aquabid?
                                                                                                      What has everyone's experience been with Aquabid? I want to oder a
                                                                                                      Betta off of there and the majority of sellers are overseas...like
                                                                                                      Taiwan. How cruel would it be to subject a fish to that much
                                                                                                      shipping and would he even be okay?

                                                                                                      ~Cyndy
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1236 From: Cyndy Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Aquabid?
                                                                                                      What has everyone's experience been with Aquabid? I want to oder a
                                                                                                      Betta off of there and the majority of sellers are overseas...like
                                                                                                      Taiwan. How cruel would it be to subject a fish to that much
                                                                                                      shipping and would he even be okay?

                                                                                                      ~Cyndy
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1237 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eheim 2026
                                                                                                      Twin tap? I didn't find anything like that in my instructions Nim. I have
                                                                                                      an in and an out flow tube and if I close off the only knob I have (the flow
                                                                                                      rate lever) then that only shuts off flow to and from the canister. The
                                                                                                      water that is still in the hoses has no where to go except my floor.

                                                                                                      Edward
                                                                                                      http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      From: "Nimish" <nimmat4@...>
                                                                                                      To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:18 AM
                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Eheim 2026


                                                                                                      > You dont need to empty the hoses. every eheim comes with a twin tap
                                                                                                      > for hoses. just turn every knob to off and seperate the taps. no
                                                                                                      > water will flow out of the tank and none will flow from the filter
                                                                                                      > except for a couple of drops.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > take the filter to the garden/garage or where ever you want to empty
                                                                                                      > it. open the tap for the top (outlet) and then open the inlet tap
                                                                                                      > keeping the hose level below the canister level and it will syphon
                                                                                                      > out the filter water. the filter can then safely be opened.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Nim
                                                                                                      > ps: i dont use a eheim 2026, i use a 2215 model.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Sola"
                                                                                                      > <esola@k...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > > For all of you who use this product or close to it, how do you
                                                                                                      > empty the hoses for maintance purposes? When I turn it off the water
                                                                                                      > just stands in the tubes so if I were to remove them, I'd get a nice
                                                                                                      > wet floor filled with fish poop. I don't want that particuarly,
                                                                                                      > lol. Also how much surface "breakage" do you all do? Mine moves
                                                                                                      > like a soft wave, no splashing, just smooth and calm.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Thank you all!
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Edward
                                                                                                      > > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1238 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Eheim 2026
                                                                                                      Edward,

                                                                                                      The same Flow control vaulve is what I called a tap. Every hose should be
                                                                                                      having a pair of these vaulves. If they don't, then you can get them from a
                                                                                                      fish store that keeps eheim spare.
                                                                                                      http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Filter_Spares_and
                                                                                                      _Cartridges_21.html

                                                                                                      scroll down and see the Eheim double tap conector. If the link is not
                                                                                                      complete, copy paste the remaining in the browser window

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 12 March 2004 15:43
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Eheim 2026
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Twin tap? I didn't find anything like that in my instructions Nim. I have
                                                                                                      >an in and an out flow tube and if I close off the only knob I have (the
                                                                                                      >flow
                                                                                                      >rate lever) then that only shuts off flow to and from the canister. The
                                                                                                      >water that is still in the hoses has no where to go except my floor.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Edward
                                                                                                      >http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                      >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                      >From: "Nimish" <nimmat4@...>
                                                                                                      >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                      >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:18 AM
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Eheim 2026
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >> You dont need to empty the hoses. every eheim comes with a twin tap
                                                                                                      >> for hoses. just turn every knob to off and seperate the taps. no
                                                                                                      >> water will flow out of the tank and none will flow from the filter
                                                                                                      >> except for a couple of drops.
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> take the filter to the garden/garage or where ever you want to empty
                                                                                                      >> it. open the tap for the top (outlet) and then open the inlet tap
                                                                                                      >> keeping the hose level below the canister level and it will syphon
                                                                                                      >> out the filter water. the filter can then safely be opened.
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Nim
                                                                                                      >> ps: i dont use a eheim 2026, i use a 2215 model.
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Sola"
                                                                                                      >> <esola@k...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >> > For all of you who use this product or close to it, how do you
                                                                                                      >> empty the hoses for maintance purposes? When I turn it off the water
                                                                                                      >> just stands in the tubes so if I were to remove them, I'd get a nice
                                                                                                      >> wet floor filled with fish poop. I don't want that particuarly,
                                                                                                      >> lol. Also how much surface "breakage" do you all do? Mine moves
                                                                                                      >> like a soft wave, no splashing, just smooth and calm.
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> > Thank you all!
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> > Edward
                                                                                                      >> > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1239 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 144
                                                                                                      if you live on long island, soft acidic water is what you get straight
                                                                                                      out of the tap. it's likely that if you live anywhere else with an
                                                                                                      aquifer like ours, you would get the same type...
                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                      On Mar 12, 2004, at 9:35 AM,
                                                                                                      FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > You would be very lucky if you get soft acidic water. it turns out
                                                                                                      > to be
                                                                                                      > much easier to make this water hard alkaline then softening a hard
                                                                                                      > water.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > My tap water (call it rock) is PH 8.2, GH 25 degrees, KH 12 degrees.
                                                                                                      > Rift
                                                                                                      > lake cichlids would feel at home here in England :)
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Nim


                                                                                                      http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                      don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1240 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 144
                                                                                                      don't worry too much, mine also got switched for no reason. it's very
                                                                                                      odd...
                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                      On Mar 12, 2004, at 9:35 AM,
                                                                                                      FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                                                                                                      > I had to go switch my yahoo! group settings back to individual email.
                                                                                                      > I'm
                                                                                                      > not sure HOW my settings ended up at digest, but I was kinda irritated
                                                                                                      > because it made me have to sit and read all day's worth of messages
                                                                                                      > all at
                                                                                                      > once, when honestly it's more convenient and easier for ME to read the
                                                                                                      > messages as they come in and I can meander my way back to the computer.
                                                                                                      http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                      for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                      religion....
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1241 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Several points, please don't be offended.
                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@a... wrote:
                                                                                                      > In a message dated 3/11/2004 11:42:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, bucks_boogie@w... writes:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > > But it is a better filter. BTW,
                                                                                                      Don't buy the models sold by PetsMart. They just use metal coils like regular heaters. You need to contact you Mom and Pop stores and ask them to ask their vendors. This company used to design all the Whisper impellers and motors. but have struck out on their own after Tetra started sending all their stuff to China to make it. Their new equipment is much better than anything they designed for Tetra. The stuff they had at the show was very nice, including the wheels. They claim, and it looks possible, that the wheels will have constant contact with moving water after being filtered, keeping it clean. It looks like it can be added to many types of filter, too. The stuff is pricey, but looks worth it. I got the heater at 40% off dealer price. Just $28. This thing retails at about $80-$90. Plus, I get to take out another ugly heater from the tank. Very pleased with that. BTW, what does "wrap message text" actually mean?
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1242 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Several points, please don't be offended.
                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@a... wrote:
                                                                                                      > In a message dated 3/11/2004 11:42:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, bucks_boogie@w... writes:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > > But it is a better filter. BTW,
                                                                                                      Don't buy the models sold by PetsMart. They just use metal coils like regular heaters. You need to contact you Mom and Pop stores and ask them to ask their vendors. This company used to design all the Whisper impellers and motors. but have struck out on their own after Tetra started sending all their stuff to China to make it. Their new equipment is much better than anything they designed for Tetra. The stuff they had at the show was very nice, including the wheels. They claim, and it looks possible, that the wheels will have constant contact with moving water after being filtered, keeping it clean. It looks like it can be added to many types of filter, too. The stuff is pricey, but looks worth it. I got the heater at 40% off dealer price. Just $28. This thing retails at about $80-$90. Plus, I get to take out another ugly heater from the tank. Very pleased with that. BTW, what does "wrap message text" actually mean?
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1243 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Several points, please don't be offended.
                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@a... wrote:
                                                                                                      > In a message dated 3/11/2004 11:42:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, bucks_boogie@w... writes:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > > But it is a better filter. BTW,
                                                                                                      Don't buy the models sold by PetsMart. They just use metal coils like regular heaters. You need to contact you Mom and Pop stores and ask them to ask their vendors. This company used to design all the Whisper impellers and motors. but have struck out on their own after Tetra started sending all their stuff to China to make it. Their new equipment is much better than anything they designed for Tetra. The stuff they had at the show was very nice, including the wheels. They claim, and it looks possible, that the wheels will have constant contact with moving water after being filtered, keeping it clean. It looks like it can be added to many types of filter, too. The stuff is pricey, but looks worth it. I got the heater at 40% off dealer price. Just $28. This thing retails at about $80-$90. Plus, I get to take out another ugly heater from the tank. Very pleased with that. BTW, what does "wrap message text" actually mean?
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1244 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Buffalo, NY area. New Tanganykans
                                                                                                      Anyone in my area interested in Lake Tang cichlids needs to call my store on St. Patty's day to see what my availability is. It's Honey Hill Pet Center, Eastern Hills Mall, 716/632-6570. My vendor tells me he's bringing in a whole mess of Tangs and I'll have my availabilty by Wednesday afternoon.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1245 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: New critters!
                                                                                                      Brought home a new Monkey shrimp, a few turbo snails and a FANTASTIC coral beauty last night. Had to rip all the live rock out of the tank to get the coral beauty out, though. Pain in the keaster. Also house sitting a guinea pig for a customer until Thursday. Nice little guy.
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1246 From: Rob Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Join my new aquarium group!
                                                                                                      Hello all you Aquarium lovers out there! I just made a great new
                                                                                                      group devoted to aquariums and the opeople who love them. Talk about
                                                                                                      your Fresh, Salt, and Brackish water tanks!!! In this group you can
                                                                                                      talk about everything that has to do with aquariums from growing
                                                                                                      corals, to growing sea monkeys, or raising bettas for profit, or
                                                                                                      anything else related to aquariums.

                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fresh_and_Saltwater_Aquariums/join

                                                                                                      Click to subscribe to Fresh_and_Saltwater_Aquariums



                                                                                                      Please join my new group! ivite all your friends and family too!

                                                                                                      Rob
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1247 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      Anyone here have Killifish, I can only find very little about them.

                                                                                                      Killifish like small tanks to live in? breeding or not breeding?
                                                                                                      Can more then one variety be put together? ( If can, alist or place
                                                                                                      to find compatible)
                                                                                                      what about compatible with other fish ?(not killifish)
                                                                                                      What kind of environment do Killifish need? ie substrate? temp? water
                                                                                                      condition?
                                                                                                      And anything elses that can help me
                                                                                                      Thanks so much for your time
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1248 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      They are very variable, which killi fish are you talking about? Specify the
                                                                                                      latin names and you can get plenty of information. I keep aplocheilus
                                                                                                      lineatus. Very hardy, but I think is a panchax rather then killi.

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 12 March 2004 22:12
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Anyone here have Killifish, I can only find very little about them.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Killifish like small tanks to live in? breeding or not breeding?
                                                                                                      >Can more then one variety be put together? ( If can, alist or place
                                                                                                      >to find compatible)
                                                                                                      >what about compatible with other fish ?(not killifish)
                                                                                                      >What kind of environment do Killifish need? ie substrate? temp? water
                                                                                                      >condition?
                                                                                                      >And anything elses that can help me
                                                                                                      >Thanks so much for your time
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1249 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/12/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      Yes there is alot of different varietys. But was hoping for more info
                                                                                                      on environment, tank size, compatibility, before making a decision on
                                                                                                      type. But I do love the fundulopanchax species and also the
                                                                                                      callopanchax species but would take anything with nice colors or the
                                                                                                      longer fins. --- In
                                                                                                      FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                      <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > They are very variable, which killi fish are you talking about?
                                                                                                      Specify the
                                                                                                      > latin names and you can get plenty of information. I keep
                                                                                                      aplocheilus
                                                                                                      > lineatus. Very hardy, but I think is a panchax rather then killi.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Nim
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      > > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >Anyone here have Killifish, I can only find very little about them.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >Killifish like small tanks to live in? breeding or not breeding?
                                                                                                      > >Can more then one variety be put together? ( If can, alist or place
                                                                                                      > >to find compatible)
                                                                                                      > >what about compatible with other fish ?(not killifish)
                                                                                                      > >What kind of environment do Killifish need? ie substrate? temp?
                                                                                                      water
                                                                                                      > >condition?
                                                                                                      > >And anything elses that can help me
                                                                                                      > >Thanks so much for your time
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1250 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      http://tropical-fish.net/killifish.htm

                                                                                                      Have a look at this text. This will give you a general basic idea on these.

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@...]
                                                                                                      >Sent: 13 March 2004 00:55
                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yes there is alot of different varietys. But was hoping for more info
                                                                                                      >on environment, tank size, compatibility, before making a decision on
                                                                                                      >type. But I do love the fundulopanchax species and also the
                                                                                                      >callopanchax species but would take anything with nice colors or the
                                                                                                      >longer fins. --- In
                                                                                                      >FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                      ><nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >> They are very variable, which killi fish are you talking about?
                                                                                                      >Specify the
                                                                                                      >> latin names and you can get plenty of information. I keep
                                                                                                      >aplocheilus
                                                                                                      >> lineatus. Very hardy, but I think is a panchax rather then killi.
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> Nim
                                                                                                      >>
                                                                                                      >> >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                      >> > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> >Anyone here have Killifish, I can only find very little about them.
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> >Killifish like small tanks to live in? breeding or not breeding?
                                                                                                      >> >Can more then one variety be put together? ( If can, alist or place
                                                                                                      >> >to find compatible)
                                                                                                      >> >what about compatible with other fish ?(not killifish)
                                                                                                      >> >What kind of environment do Killifish need? ie substrate? temp?
                                                                                                      >water
                                                                                                      >> >condition?
                                                                                                      >> >And anything elses that can help me
                                                                                                      >> >Thanks so much for your time
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >> >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1251 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      You should join the American Killiefish Association. I think that's
                                                                                                      what it's called.

                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1252 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Killifish? help please
                                                                                                      My main fish provider is a long tme member, I'll be talking to him
                                                                                                      Tue-Wed. I'll find out what it is exactly then. You can buy from
                                                                                                      members and go to the shows.

                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1253 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Hi there,
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                          I have an all fancy tail guppy tank that has been soooooo perfect for months and now all of the sudden  I am loosing fish.   3 have died just this week alone, and I have 2 more that are treading water and act like they are gasping ( but not at the top of the tank).    I have been doing regular checks and the only thing that is the slightest bit off is the alkalinity. ( according to the test strips it is high/low reading 40) There is no trace of amonia in the tank and everything else that the test strips check for are perfect.   So far I have lost 3 females, and have 1 female and a male that are starting to act like the other 3 did the day before I found them dead.
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                       Does anyone have any suggestions for me, before I lose any more??  
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                       Kelly
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1254 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                      Hi Kelly,m

                                                                                                      Sorry to hear about your guppies. You might try a partial water
                                                                                                      change, and check the Nitrites. Also try raising the temp of your
                                                                                                      water a few degrees to a max of 82 degrees.
                                                                                                      You may also want to try this site out. They lots of useful info on a
                                                                                                      variety of fish, and fish ailments and a good basic cure for most
                                                                                                      problems.
                                                                                                      http://www.aquariumfish.net/index.html

                                                                                                      Hope this helps

                                                                                                      Mike

                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                      <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Hi there,
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > I have an all fancy tail guppy tank that has been soooooo
                                                                                                      perfect for
                                                                                                      > months and now all of the sudden I am loosing fish. 3 have died
                                                                                                      just this
                                                                                                      > week alone, and I have 2 more that are treading water and act like
                                                                                                      they are
                                                                                                      > gasping ( but not at the top of the tank). I have been doing
                                                                                                      regular
                                                                                                      > checks and the only thing that is the slightest bit off is the
                                                                                                      alkalinity. (
                                                                                                      > according to the test strips it is high/low reading 40) There is no
                                                                                                      trace of
                                                                                                      > amonia in the tank and everything else that the test strips check
                                                                                                      for are
                                                                                                      > perfect. So far I have lost 3 females, and have 1 female and a
                                                                                                      male that
                                                                                                      > are starting to act like the other 3 did the day before I found
                                                                                                      them dead.
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, before I lose any
                                                                                                      more??
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                      > Kelly
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1255 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                      H'lo,
                                                                                                      It's been a while since I had to consider such things, but does Calciferous material have anything to do with raising PH? Could it be calcium containing material slowly leeched into the water, raising the PH above the fishs' requirements?
                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                      > Hi Kelly,m
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Sorry to hear about your guppies. You might try a partial water
                                                                                                      > change, and check the Nitrites. Also try raising the temp of your
                                                                                                      > water a few degrees to a max of 82 degrees.
                                                                                                      > You may also want to try this site out. They lots of useful info on a
                                                                                                      > variety of fish, and fish ailments and a good basic cure for most
                                                                                                      > problems.
                                                                                                      > http://www.aquariumfish.net/index.html
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Hope this helps
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Mike
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                      > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Hi there,
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > I have an all fancy tail guppy tank that has been soooooo
                                                                                                      > perfect for
                                                                                                      > > months and now all of the sudden I am loosing fish. 3 have died
                                                                                                      > just this
                                                                                                      > > week alone, and I have 2 more that are treading water and act like
                                                                                                      > they are
                                                                                                      > > gasping ( but not at the top of the tank). I have been doing
                                                                                                      > regular
                                                                                                      > > checks and the only thing that is the slightest bit off is the
                                                                                                      > alkalinity. (
                                                                                                      > > according to the test strips it is high/low reading 40) There is no
                                                                                                      > trace of
                                                                                                      > > amonia in the tank and everything else that the test strips check
                                                                                                      > for are
                                                                                                      > > perfect. So far I have lost 3 females, and have 1 female and a
                                                                                                      > male that
                                                                                                      > > are starting to act like the other 3 did the day before I found
                                                                                                      > them dead.
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, before I lose any
                                                                                                      > more??
                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                      > > Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                      > > Kelly
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1256 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                      Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                      FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:

                                                                                                      Do your fish hand feed? Hand feed is,
                                                                                                      like when you hold the food in your
                                                                                                      fingers and the fish all come up and
                                                                                                      grab it from your hand, or ou place the
                                                                                                      food on your hand/fingers and the fish
                                                                                                      knows you and comes up and takes the
                                                                                                      food.

                                                                                                      o Yes, Most of them
                                                                                                      o Yes, but 50/50
                                                                                                      o Yes, but very selected
                                                                                                      o Only 1 or 2
                                                                                                      o None
                                                                                                      o Would love them to
                                                                                                      o It does not matter
                                                                                                      o Too Scary


                                                                                                      To vote, please visit the following web page:

                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/surveys?id=1321141

                                                                                                      Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                      not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                      web site listed above.

                                                                                                      Thanks!
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1257 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Poll

                                                                                                      All,

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Just out of curiosity, I have created a poll in the polls section of the group. Please feel free to vote J

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Cheers,

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1258 From: Maelin Gong Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: New here
                                                                                                      Hi all,

                                                                                                      My name is Maelin, and I live in the SF bay area with
                                                                                                      my cats, froggies, and hubby. I currently have only
                                                                                                      African Dwarf frogs with fishy tankmates and two empty
                                                                                                      froggy habitats (1 land/water, 1 arboreal) after
                                                                                                      several deaths in the past 2 years. :(

                                                                                                      Anyway, now that it's been a couple of years, I'm
                                                                                                      thinking about putting native frogs or toads in the
                                                                                                      amphibious tank. Still not ready to have tree frogs
                                                                                                      yet, though.

                                                                                                      BTW, is there a rules file I can read before posting?
                                                                                                      I want to ask about getting frogs, but don't want to
                                                                                                      get in trouble.

                                                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                                                      Maelin



                                                                                                      =====
                                                                                                      Don't love others IN SPITE OF who they are; love them BECAUSE OF who they are.

                                                                                                      My photo albums:
                                                                                                      http://community.webshots.com/user/xouie

                                                                                                      __________________________________
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                                                                                                      Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
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                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1259 From: Maelin Gong Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: One more
                                                                                                      Whoops! I forgot to mention my new turtle, Wax. He
                                                                                                      cruised to the front of the tank and gave me a
                                                                                                      reproachful look for forgetting him.

                                                                                                      -- Maelin

                                                                                                      =====
                                                                                                      Don't love others IN SPITE OF who they are; love them BECAUSE OF who they are.

                                                                                                      My photo albums:
                                                                                                      http://community.webshots.com/user/xouie

                                                                                                      __________________________________
                                                                                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                      Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
                                                                                                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1260 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: One more
                                                                                                      O that is one of cutest names for a turtle !!! Nice to meet ya
                                                                                                      Maelin,I'm Sherrie I have a hex 5 tank with a african frog and a 40
                                                                                                      gallon tank with about 10 fish and Just brought home today my New 150
                                                                                                      gallon tank. Not to sure what I'm going to put in yet. *grin

                                                                                                      "happy tank watching" Sherrie
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1261 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Our new baby is home!!!
                                                                                                      LOL okay its not a baby, but our new 150 gallon tank is home!!! LOL
                                                                                                      Not to sure what to put in yet, might be awhile before its all set up
                                                                                                      and going. Still thinking about brackish fish, now that I'm sadden by
                                                                                                      my Killi findings, can't have a whole tank of those :( But still
                                                                                                      might want to try a pair. Got lots more reading to do. And thanks to
                                                                                                      everyone who helped me with info, The website was wonderful info
                                                                                                      Nim. "thanks" Sherrie
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1262 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                      Do you use salt? It's hugely important, 1 teaspoon per gallon of either
                                                                                                      aquarium salt or kosher and canning salt. Bought my last box of canning
                                                                                                      salt for $1.29 for 4 lbs and I use it i my kitchen. Your gupps will
                                                                                                      thrive and you can cook with it, too. There's not a body of water on
                                                                                                      the planet that doesn't have salt. Just read a box at your lps and
                                                                                                      you'll get all the info you need. I'll get deaper when I have more
                                                                                                      time.................Rob.

                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1263 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/13/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Playing Taps
                                                                                                      Hey all, how is everyone.  I unfortunally came home from work tonight to find two of my buddies gone.  One of my bala sharks and my fav, my pictus catfish.  I don't know what happened.  These fish have survived a tremendous amount of everything so it surprised me (and sadended me) to find them floating.  About a week ago I'm sure some of you may remember I had a TEREBLE time with my ammonia levels and nitrite levels being off the charts and then some.  They all came through that ordeal with flying colors.  Not one lost.  The majority of them even surpassed a huge mistake I made by listening to some advise that my LFS gave me about a month and a half ago by adding what I believe was to much of a mixture of ammo lock and another chemical.  Within 10 minutes of adding these two together (as advised by the LFS personell) all but my bala sharks were dead.  Then miraculously they all but 2 came back to life.  It was really kinda weird.  Anyway now I have lost my first bala shark and my pictus.  The only thing that is different is the fact that I took out the UGF and added my Eheim canister and added a DIY Co2 system.  I did shake the bottle today and got a huge surge of bubbles.  Could I have put to much Co2 in the tank at one time?  I heard that too much can harm and kill your plants and fish.  I don't have a Co2 tester yet, I'm ordering a master test kit that has everything in it soon.  My plants are a fabulous lush green color though for only having the system 3 days!  But I don't want to loose anymore of my buddies for that.  The other fish seem to be alright, a few of them are acting a little strange in the way they are swimming.  Kinda eraticaly if you will.  Not graceful, but a few of the bala sharks are swimming like mad men.  I'll have to see what happens in the morning.  I was thinking about buying a 150 gal tank to compliment the 80, but I don't want to do anything now till this tank is better.  All suggestions are despartely needed. 
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Thank you everyone!

                                                                                                      Edward
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1264 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Playing Taps

                                                                                                      Edward,

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Perhaps they were subjected to another cycle when you switched off the UGF and got in a new canister. Yes, too much CO2 could also be a reason, but a tester would be too late now as CO2 in water is volatile. It may be possible that in the night it got too much CO2 and by morning it came down to safe levels. It would be best to switch off CO2 at night/

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Can you confirm if you don’t have any ammonia/nitrite spikes yet again. Did you change the gravel when you removed the UGF? Did you vacuum the gravel?

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                       


                                                                                                      From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                      Sent: 14 March 2004 07:46
                                                                                                      To: Uniquaria; Freshwateraquariums; Freshwater TropicalFish
                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Playing Taps

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Hey all, how is everyone.  I unfortunally came home from work tonight to find two of my buddies gone.  One of my bala sharks and my fav, my pictus catfish.  I don't know what happened.  These fish have survived a tremendous amount of everything so it surprised me (and sadended me) to find them floating.  About a week ago I'm sure some of you may remember I had a TEREBLE time with my ammonia levels and nitrite levels being off the charts and then some.  They all came through that ordeal with flying colors.  Not one lost.  The majority of them even surpassed a huge mistake I made by listening to some advise that my LFS gave me about a month and a half ago by adding what I believe was to much of a mixture of ammo lock and another chemical.  Within 10 minutes of adding these two together (as advised by the LFS personell) all but my bala sharks were dead.  Then miraculously they all but 2 came back to life.  It was really kinda weird.  Anyway now I have lost my first bala shark and my pictus.  The only thing that is different is the fact that I took out the UGF and added my Eheim canister and added a DIY Co2 system.  I did shake the bottle today and got a huge surge of bubbles.  Could I have put to much Co2 in the tank at one time?  I heard that too much can harm and kill your plants and fish.  I don't have a Co2 tester yet, I'm ordering a master test kit that has everything in it soon.  My plants are a fabulous lush green color though for only having the system 3 days!  But I don't want to loose anymore of my buddies for that.  The other fish seem to be alright, a few of them are acting a little strange in the way they are swimming.  Kinda eraticaly if you will.  Not graceful, but a few of the bala sharks are swimming like mad men.  I'll have to see what happens in the morning.  I was thinking about buying a 150 gal tank to compliment the 80, but I don't want to do anything now till this tank is better.  All suggestions are despartely needed. 

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Thank you everyone!

                                                                                                      Edward

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1265 From: mwilliams115 Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: clam question
                                                                                                      Hi Everyone,

                                                                                                      I'm new to this list. I've been lurking and learning for a couple of
                                                                                                      weeks now, but this is the first time I've posted. I have a question
                                                                                                      for you all. I have a ten gallon tank that's been going for about 12
                                                                                                      years. I have five fish (mostly tetras) a snail, and a clam in it.
                                                                                                      I often get green algae growing on the sides. I clean it up whatever
                                                                                                      the snail doesn't eat. Here's my question: Algae is now growing on
                                                                                                      my little clam. Will that hurt him?

                                                                                                      Mary
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1266 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                       Hi Rob,   Thanks for replying... and yup, I use aquarium salt faithfully.....     I have not lost anymore and the 2 that were acting funny seem OK now.. I will keep a close eye on them still and continue to check all my water levels..
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      hugs,   Kelly
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Date: 03/14/04 01:18:28
                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] HELP Please!!
                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Do you use salt?  It's hugely important, 1 teaspoon per gallon of either
                                                                                                      aquarium salt or kosher and canning salt.  Bought my last box of canning
                                                                                                      salt for $1.29 for 4 lbs and I use it i my kitchen.  Your gupps will
                                                                                                      thrive and you can cook with it, too.  There's not a body of water on
                                                                                                      the planet that doesn't have salt.  Just read a box at your lps and
                                                                                                      you'll get all the info you need.  I'll get deaper when I have more
                                                                                                      time.................Rob.

                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!

                                                                                                       
                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1267 From: CRYS NOLAN Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                      Subject: Bouncing email
                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                        Blank
                                                                                                        HI all:
                                                                                                        For some  reason my  email has been  bouncing,its strange  because i leave  my computer  on always i  am  sorry.
                                                                                                        Chris
                                                                                                        __________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                        Chris N
                                                                                                        ICQ#: 250825152
                                                                                                        Current ICQ status:  
                                                                                                        +  More ways to contact me
                                                                                                               Get ICQ!
                                                                                                        __________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1268 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Playing Taps
                                                                                                        Nim,
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Thank you for the quick reply.  I did confirm the ammonia/nitrites were at acceptable levels.  Tested it with 2 different test kits.  I didn't change the gravel but I did do a gravel vaccuming after the UGF came out to get the majority of the gunk out.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Thank you again Nim!
                                                                                                        Edward
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 4:04 AM
                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Playing Taps

                                                                                                        Edward,

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Perhaps they were subjected to another cycle when you switched off the UGF and got in a new canister. Yes, too much CO2 could also be a reason, but a tester would be too late now as CO2 in water is volatile. It may be possible that in the night it got too much CO2 and by morning it came down to safe levels. It would be best to switch off CO2 at night/

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Can you confirm if you don’t have any ammonia/nitrite spikes yet again. Did you change the gravel when you removed the UGF? Did you vacuum the gravel?

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                         


                                                                                                        From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: 14 March 2004 07:46
                                                                                                        To: Uniquaria; Freshwateraquariums; Freshwater TropicalFish
                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Playing Taps

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Hey all, how is everyone.  I unfortunally came home from work tonight to find two of my buddies gone.  One of my bala sharks and my fav, my pictus catfish.  I don't know what happened.  These fish have survived a tremendous amount of everything so it surprised me (and sadended me) to find them floating.  About a week ago I'm sure some of you may remember I had a TEREBLE time with my ammonia levels and nitrite levels being off the charts and then some.  They all came through that ordeal with flying colors.  Not one lost.  The majority of them even surpassed a huge mistake I made by listening to some advise that my LFS gave me about a month and a half ago by adding what I believe was to much of a mixture of ammo lock and another chemical.  Within 10 minutes of adding these two together (as advised by the LFS personell) all but my bala sharks were dead.  Then miraculously they all but 2 came back to life.  It was really kinda weird.  Anyway now I have lost my first bala shark and my pictus.  The only thing that is different is the fact that I took out the UGF and added my Eheim canister and added a DIY Co2 system.  I did shake the bottle today and got a huge surge of bubbles.  Could I have put to much Co2 in the tank at one time?  I heard that too much can harm and kill your plants and fish.  I don't have a Co2 tester yet, I'm ordering a master test kit that has everything in it soon.  My plants are a fabulous lush green color though for only having the system 3 days!  But I don't want to loose anymore of my buddies for that.  The other fish seem to be alright, a few of them are acting a little strange in the way they are swimming.  Kinda eraticaly if you will.  Not graceful, but a few of the bala sharks are swimming like mad men.  I'll have to see what happens in the morning.  I was thinking about buying a 150 gal tank to compliment the 80, but I don't want to do anything now till this tank is better.  All suggestions are despartely needed. 

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Thank you everyone!

                                                                                                        Edward

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1269 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: first fish, nervous dad
                                                                                                        Well... woke up this morning to find my water levels finally dead on. Both
                                                                                                        nitrites and ammonia at zero. Loaded up the Clampets and headed to our new
                                                                                                        favorite fish store.

                                                                                                        For a variety of reasons we settled on three small black phantom tetras as
                                                                                                        our first fish and three ghost shrimp.

                                                                                                        The shrimp disappeared into the foliage in minutes. Still haven't seen them.

                                                                                                        I placed all the animals in the tank (55 gallon) at the opposite end of the
                                                                                                        heater and the filter.

                                                                                                        Pretty much right away the tetras ended up over by the heater and filter. I
                                                                                                        was a little worried (they're really small) about them getting sucked into
                                                                                                        the filter, so I turned it off for a few seconds. Nothing about their
                                                                                                        swimming pattern changed so I turned it back on.

                                                                                                        Eventually they made their way back to the other side of the tank.

                                                                                                        I'm curious regarding the filter. It's a Whisper 30-60 and per the
                                                                                                        instructions the water flow has been on at full flow since I first started
                                                                                                        it. There is a definite current on that side of the tank as most of the
                                                                                                        plants on that side sway back and forth. The plants on the opposite end do not.

                                                                                                        Is there something I'm supposed to do with the filter now that there are
                                                                                                        fish in it, like turn down the flow control or something, or should it be fine?

                                                                                                        I've realized that the tetras could be over by the heater for warmth, but
                                                                                                        the other side of the tank registers at 78 or so, so that would kind of
                                                                                                        surprise me over all.

                                                                                                        Tony
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1270 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: first fish, nervous dad
                                                                                                        Congratulations on cycling your tank Tony,

                                                                                                        I think the tetras will be fine with the filter. They can handle themselves
                                                                                                        very well against flow. You can reduce the flow however, if things don't
                                                                                                        seem right. I don't know about the Whisper filter but someone sure might. I
                                                                                                        would not recommend turning off the filter for more than 2 hrs as this will
                                                                                                        start effecting bacterial population.

                                                                                                        What more are you planning to have in the tank?

                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        >From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                        >Sent: 14 March 2004 20:50
                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                        >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] first fish, nervous dad
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Well... woke up this morning to find my water levels finally dead on. Both
                                                                                                        >nitrites and ammonia at zero. Loaded up the Clampets and headed to our new
                                                                                                        >favorite fish store.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >For a variety of reasons we settled on three small black phantom tetras as
                                                                                                        >our first fish and three ghost shrimp.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >The shrimp disappeared into the foliage in minutes. Still haven't seen
                                                                                                        >them.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >I placed all the animals in the tank (55 gallon) at the opposite end of the
                                                                                                        >heater and the filter.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Pretty much right away the tetras ended up over by the heater and filter. I
                                                                                                        >was a little worried (they're really small) about them getting sucked into
                                                                                                        >the filter, so I turned it off for a few seconds. Nothing about their
                                                                                                        >swimming pattern changed so I turned it back on.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Eventually they made their way back to the other side of the tank.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >I'm curious regarding the filter. It's a Whisper 30-60 and per the
                                                                                                        >instructions the water flow has been on at full flow since I first started
                                                                                                        >it. There is a definite current on that side of the tank as most of the
                                                                                                        >plants on that side sway back and forth. The plants on the opposite end do
                                                                                                        >not.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Is there something I'm supposed to do with the filter now that there are
                                                                                                        >fish in it, like turn down the flow control or something, or should it be
                                                                                                        >fine?
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >I've realized that the tetras could be over by the heater for warmth, but
                                                                                                        >the other side of the tank registers at 78 or so, so that would kind of
                                                                                                        >surprise me over all.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Tony
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1271 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                        After putting my first fish in the tank I noticed today that along the back
                                                                                                        wall and on the intake tube for the filter there are these brownish spots
                                                                                                        or stains. I'm more than willing to bet it's brown algae was it wipes off
                                                                                                        from the inside using a magnetic cleaner.

                                                                                                        Which new pal is going to be best to eat that stuff?


                                                                                                        Tony
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1272 From: klooster8 Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: convicts and eggs
                                                                                                        What do convicts do with their eggs? Our female laid heaps inside a
                                                                                                        terracotta pot.Everytime she moved they would fall, so she would pick
                                                                                                        the egg up and place it back on the pot. Now we can see no eggs in
                                                                                                        the pot.Do they bury them?Has she eaten them?Has she moved them to
                                                                                                        another hiding place.Both male and female have been busy picking up
                                                                                                        stones and spitting them out,Is this a moving thing?
                                                                                                        Cheers George
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1273 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: convicts and eggs
                                                                                                        if they haven't hatched, there's a good chance she's eaten them.
                                                                                                        sometimes until they get the "hang" of breeding, they'll eat them.
                                                                                                        though the picking up and dropping stones thing is a nest building
                                                                                                        habit. so it is possible they've hidden them more deeply in the
                                                                                                        substrate. my established pair of bubblegums (a cross between convicts
                                                                                                        and blood parrots) does that a lot...
                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                        On Mar 14, 2004, at 6:56 PM, klooster8 wrote:

                                                                                                        > What do convicts do with their eggs? Our female laid heaps inside a
                                                                                                        > terracotta pot.Everytime she moved they would fall, so she would pick
                                                                                                        > the egg up and place it back on the pot. Now we can see no eggs in
                                                                                                        > the pot.Do they bury them?Has she eaten them?Has she moved them to
                                                                                                        > another hiding place.Both male and female have been busy picking up
                                                                                                        > stones and spitting them out,Is this a moving thing?
                                                                                                        > Cheers George
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                        don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1274 From: Ken Grolle Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Strange Fish Disease
                                                                                                        I've been into the tropical fish hobby for 40 years, and have never
                                                                                                        seen an affliction like the one my cardinal tetras are getting. The
                                                                                                        affected ones dart around violently, spiraling like a football.
                                                                                                        They slam into rocks, walls and ground like they are posessed by
                                                                                                        demons. They then usually die. So far, it's only one at a time. One
                                                                                                        poor guy must have hit a rock, ruptured his eye, it healed-up and
                                                                                                        now he's seemingly OK. The eye is gone. I've lost about 10 of the
                                                                                                        30 cardinals I have. Doesn't affect the other species in the tank.
                                                                                                        It appears to me that the fish behave like humans would behave if
                                                                                                        our hands were tied behind our backs and live scorpions were placed
                                                                                                        in our ears. The tank is heavily planted and I have tons of snails,
                                                                                                        worms, Paramecium-like species and all other assorted junk we get
                                                                                                        (and alas deserve) when we have used live food for so long. Anybody
                                                                                                        out there have any ideas?
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1275 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Newbie - black slime algae
                                                                                                        Hello, just joined this group and I hope to learn a lot.

                                                                                                        I've had aquarium fish for a little over 15 years now. Up until
                                                                                                        last year I had a 55 gallon brackish water tank stocked with
                                                                                                        Monodactylus (4), some East African Cichlids (mbuna)(4), a Corydoras
                                                                                                        (catfish) and some Coolie loaches. All of those fish were pretty
                                                                                                        old, I assume (not really sure how long aquarium fish usually
                                                                                                        surive), I had had them all for at least 6 years before I started
                                                                                                        losing any. We moved to a new home a little over a year ago and by
                                                                                                        that time I was down to one Mondactylus and the Corydoras. So I
                                                                                                        picked up a smaller tank (25 gallons) to make the move easier. Any
                                                                                                        how, last summer I lost the last Monodactylus and switched the 25
                                                                                                        gallon tank over to fresh water rather than brackish. I still have
                                                                                                        the Corydoras and last Fall I also added 6 danio's and a Betta.
                                                                                                        That's all that's in the tank as far as fish go. I also keep some
                                                                                                        fresh water plants - not many because the tank is small - I have 3
                                                                                                        corkscrew and some water grass. All of the fish seem very healthy
                                                                                                        and have good appetites.

                                                                                                        What I keep having a problem with is there is this black slimy algae
                                                                                                        that keeps growing on the inside of the glass. I've had some
                                                                                                        experience with green algae and even red algae - but this black
                                                                                                        stuff I have no idea about! Every two weeks I do a quarter water
                                                                                                        change, I try not to over-feed and I limit the light to daylight
                                                                                                        hours. I've even tried changing 3/4's of the water but this stuff
                                                                                                        comes back really fast. I was having a problem originally with
                                                                                                        green algae, not the kind that sticks to everything in the aquarium
                                                                                                        but just the water turning green. This house has many more windows
                                                                                                        than my old apartment did so I thought it was probably too much
                                                                                                        sunlight and started limiting the hours I had the aquarium light
                                                                                                        on. That seemed to help the green algae problem but now there is
                                                                                                        this black sludge on the insides of the glass that keeps appearing.

                                                                                                        So far the fish seem fine, but I just can't see this black stuff as
                                                                                                        being a good thing. Any help is appreciated! (Sorry this is so
                                                                                                        long!)
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1276 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: 2nd Round of Taps
                                                                                                        Ok this is getting ridiculous.  I once again came home to another tradgedy.  One more of my bala sharks have passed.  I came home to find him at the top of my tank with both eyes missing.  His skin was a redish color too.  My other bala sharks are looking a little grim as well, so are both my pangus catfish.  I'm afraid I'm going to loose both my pangus's because they are both just lying at the bottom of the tank barely moving.  They are usually busilly trying to get out of the tank and swimming around like mad men (or women).  I'm thinking ick might be the problem becuase I do see a few spots on both my pangus and bala sharks.  My tiger barbs are looking alright so are my two gaurmies.  I don't know what to do.  I placed my bala shark in a baggie and put him in the freezer, I'm going to have my LFS take a look at him and see what they think.  I'll have them do a water test as well.  My tests show everything is in the norm.  I can only imagine that it could be stressed induced when I changed filters and took out the UGF the other day.  We'll see what happens in the next few days.  I might just transfer my gaurmies and tiger barbs to my 20gal for now.  Couldn't hurt, right?  Treat the other fish for possible ick?  The 4 bala sharks are clumped together at the top of the tank constantly opening and closing thier mouths like they have a lack of oxygen.  I also took out my DIY Co2 for the time being as well.  I'll retest my Ph to make sure it's alright and adjust as needed.  Thank you for any help anyone can pass along to me.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Edward
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1277 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Pregnant Gourmi?
                                                                                                        How does one tell if an opaline gourmi is pregnant or not?  I have two of them, one is fat around the head/stomach area the other is kinda chasing him/her around and not as fat.  Are there any characteristics I can look for to tell them apart.  If one is pregnant what should I do to ensure a good "crop" of fry?  Will they eat their own offspring?  Do I have to worry about tiger barbs and bala sharks?  Thank you all as this could possibly be my first dealings with being a new parent!
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Edward
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1278 From: mike mather Date: 3/14/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie - black slime algae
                                                                                                        You may try adding an American Flag Fish. I got one to put in my son's 10 gallon tank, which had a huge algae problem, especial Hair algae. For the first week he did absolutely nothing for the algae,and then one day I came home from work to find almost all the Hair algae completely gone from the plants and substrate. The Flag Fish does not seem to eat any of the food I feed the other fish including spirulina, brine shrimp flakes and frozen blood worms. This fish is truly an ALGAE EATER!              
                                                                                                                                                                                       Good Luck!     Mike
                                                                                                        summertyme1113 <peggy1155@...> wrote:
                                                                                                        Hello, just joined this group and I hope to learn a lot.

                                                                                                        I've had aquarium fish for a little over 15 years now.  Up until
                                                                                                        last year I had a 55 gallon brackish water tank stocked with
                                                                                                        Monodactylus (4), some East African Cichlids (mbuna)(4), a Corydoras
                                                                                                        (catfish) and some Coolie loaches.  All of those fish were pretty
                                                                                                        old, I assume (not really sure how long aquarium fish usually
                                                                                                        surive), I had had them all for at least 6 years before I started
                                                                                                        losing any.  We moved to a new home a little over a year ago and by
                                                                                                        that time I was down to one Mondactylus and the Corydoras.  So I
                                                                                                        picked up a smaller tank (25 gallons) to make the move easier.  Any
                                                                                                        how, last summer I lost the last Monodactylus and switched the 25
                                                                                                        gallon tank over to fresh water rather than brackish.  I still have
                                                                                                        the Corydoras and last Fall I also added 6 danio's and a Betta. 
                                                                                                        That's all that's in the tank as far as fish go.  I also keep some
                                                                                                        fresh water plants - not many because the tank is small - I have 3
                                                                                                        corkscrew and some water grass.  All of the fish seem very healthy
                                                                                                        and have good appetites.

                                                                                                        What I keep having a problem with is there is this black slimy algae
                                                                                                        that keeps growing on the inside of the glass.  I've had some
                                                                                                        experience with green algae and even red algae - but this black
                                                                                                        stuff I have no idea about!  Every two weeks I do a quarter water
                                                                                                        change, I try not to over-feed and I limit the light to daylight
                                                                                                        hours.  I've even tried changing 3/4's of the water but this stuff
                                                                                                        comes back really fast.  I was having a problem originally with
                                                                                                        green algae, not the kind that sticks to everything in the aquarium
                                                                                                        but just the water turning green.  This house has many more windows
                                                                                                        than my old apartment did so I thought it was probably too much
                                                                                                        sunlight and started limiting the hours I had the aquarium light
                                                                                                        on.  That seemed to help the green algae problem but now there is
                                                                                                        this black sludge on the insides of the glass that keeps appearing.

                                                                                                        So far the fish seem fine, but I just can't see this black stuff as
                                                                                                        being a good thing.  Any help is appreciated!  (Sorry this is so
                                                                                                        long!)



                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                        Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam

                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1279 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pregnant Gourmi?

                                                                                                        Gouramis don’t get pregnant. They lay eggs externally in a bubble nest built by the male. It is essential that you have some floating plants at the surface and no surface water movement. The male will guard the eggs and the fry for about a week, after which he should be removed.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Male gouramis have longer fins (pointed dorsal fin and pointed anal fin) then the females. Female is more fuller then the male and all fins have rounded ends.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        With fish like tiger barbs and bala sharks, it is very unlikely that the male will get a chance to build a bubble nest.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                         


                                                                                                        From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: 15 March 2004 06:17
                                                                                                        To: Uniquaria; Freshwateraquariums; Freshwater TropicalFish
                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pregnant Gourmi?

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        How does one tell if an opaline gourmi is pregnant or not?  I have two of them, one is fat around the head/stomach area the other is kinda chasing him/her around and not as fat.  Are there any characteristics I can look for to tell them apart.  If one is pregnant what should I do to ensure a good "crop" of fry?  Will they eat their own offspring?  Do I have to worry about tiger barbs and bala sharks?  Thank you all as this could possibly be my first dealings with being a new parent!

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Edward

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1280 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re:
                                                                                                        For this type of algae, I Vote Ancistrus (Bristle nose plec). I have seen
                                                                                                        these buggers keep my fry tank walls crystal clear. They are hardy and don't
                                                                                                        get too big either and plus, mostly work at night, though visible during the
                                                                                                        day. There are albino verities of these as well that look extremely cute for
                                                                                                        plecs.

                                                                                                        Nim


                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        >From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                        >Sent: 14 March 2004 23:55
                                                                                                        >To: tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >After putting my first fish in the tank I noticed today that along the back
                                                                                                        >wall and on the intake tube for the filter there are these brownish spots
                                                                                                        >or stains. I'm more than willing to bet it's brown algae was it wipes off
                                                                                                        >from the inside using a magnetic cleaner.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Which new pal is going to be best to eat that stuff?
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Tony
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1281 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 2nd Round of Taps
                                                                                                        Edward : check out this link. It has descriptions of a lot of common fish diseases. Maybe you can look here and find out what is happening to your fish, and treat it.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1282 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 2nd Round of Taps
                                                                                                        Thank you, it's seeming like velvet now instead of ich.  I'm rushing out now to the lfs.  Another bala shark is showing the same symptoms as the other 2 did prior to passing.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Edward
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 7:21 AM
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] 2nd Round of Taps

                                                                                                        Edward : check out this link. It has descriptions of a lot of common fish diseases. Maybe you can look here and find out what is happening to your fish, and treat it.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1283 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Playing Taps
                                                                                                        I'm sure this has been said, but here goes anyhow. Edward, what do you
                                                                                                        mean by acceptable? No matter what your testers might say, a zero
                                                                                                        reading is the only acceptable reading. One more question, is it
                                                                                                        possible for the CO2 reaction chamber liquid to get in the tubing? Like
                                                                                                        if it got tipped? Happened to a friend, little droplets of homemade
                                                                                                        hooch were working their way up the tube into the tank. Just a thought.

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1284 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Playing Taps
                                                                                                        The bottles didn't get tipped however when I removed the tubing and bottles
                                                                                                        I did notice a few wet areas in the line. I'm not for sure if they reached
                                                                                                        the water, I can only speculate and assume so. Acceptable meaning "0" on
                                                                                                        all my levels. If I did get a little co2 mixture in my tank why would this
                                                                                                        be harmful? I couldn't had been a whole lot, there wasn't that much in the
                                                                                                        line that I saw. Thank you for your help!

                                                                                                        Edward
                                                                                                        http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        From: <bucks_boogie@...>
                                                                                                        To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:29 AM
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Playing Taps


                                                                                                        > I'm sure this has been said, but here goes anyhow. Edward, what do you
                                                                                                        > mean by acceptable? No matter what your testers might say, a zero
                                                                                                        > reading is the only acceptable reading. One more question, is it
                                                                                                        > possible for the CO2 reaction chamber liquid to get in the tubing? Like
                                                                                                        > if it got tipped? Happened to a friend, little droplets of homemade
                                                                                                        > hooch were working their way up the tube into the tank. Just a thought.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1285 From: Lynda Traylor Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                        Hi!
                                                                                                        I am new to your group and am fairly new to aquariums. I have a 29 gallon
                                                                                                        tank with sailfin mollies and swordtails. My daughter thinks she is doing
                                                                                                        me a favor and brings me a black ghost and I don't feel that I am
                                                                                                        experienced enough to handle this fish. It is a beautiful fish but I can't
                                                                                                        find much information about them. Has anyone had any experience with these
                                                                                                        fish that could offer me some advice. I would hate for something to happen
                                                                                                        to him because of my ignorance.

                                                                                                        Thanks
                                                                                                        Lynda

                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        From: Mike McGough [SMTP:mamcgo@...]
                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 1:59 PM
                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: HELP Please!!

                                                                                                        << File: ATT00055.html >>
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1286 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: first fish, nervous dad
                                                                                                        Don't worry about the location of the fish, they'll be fine. Please
                                                                                                        make your future fish purchases more phantoms for the time being. I
                                                                                                        know they advise at PetsMart that a schooling fish group needs to be 3,
                                                                                                        however, that in not enough. A school of 10-20 would be great for the
                                                                                                        fish and is quite impressive. You probably knew that, but I thought I'd
                                                                                                        mention it for the sake of the fish. Oh, and CONGRATULATIONS TO THE NEW
                                                                                                        FATHER!

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1287 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                        You are right Lynda. Black ghost knife are most certainly delicate than
                                                                                                        Mollies and sword tails. Moreover, they are nocturnal and grow to about 24"
                                                                                                        (more than half the size of your tank).

                                                                                                        It would be better to go for something else in the beginning that does not
                                                                                                        grow that big and is not sensitive as this.

                                                                                                        You may be on different water requirements for the black ghost knife as
                                                                                                        well.

                                                                                                        Nim
                                                                                                        Ps: Welcome to the Group and the Hobby :)

                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        >From: Lynda Traylor [mailto:ltraylor@...]
                                                                                                        >Sent: 15 March 2004 15:45
                                                                                                        >To: 'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'
                                                                                                        >Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Hi!
                                                                                                        >I am new to your group and am fairly new to aquariums. I have a 29 gallon
                                                                                                        >tank with sailfin mollies and swordtails. My daughter thinks she is doing
                                                                                                        >me a favor and brings me a black ghost and I don't feel that I am
                                                                                                        >experienced enough to handle this fish. It is a beautiful fish but I can't
                                                                                                        >find much information about them. Has anyone had any experience with these
                                                                                                        >fish that could offer me some advice. I would hate for something to happen
                                                                                                        >to him because of my ignorance.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Thanks
                                                                                                        >Lynda
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        >From: Mike McGough [SMTP:mamcgo@...]
                                                                                                        >Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 1:59 PM
                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > << File: ATT00055.html >>
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1288 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                        Hi Lynda,

                                                                                                        Don't know much about Black ghost. Check this site out they seem
                                                                                                        to have a bit on them. Mostley comments from those that own Black
                                                                                                        Ghost.
                                                                                                        http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/gaptero.html

                                                                                                        Hope they help.
                                                                                                        Mike




                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Lynda Traylor
                                                                                                        <ltraylor@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > Hi!
                                                                                                        > I am new to your group and am fairly new to aquariums. I have a 29
                                                                                                        gallon
                                                                                                        > tank with sailfin mollies and swordtails. My daughter thinks she
                                                                                                        is doing
                                                                                                        > me a favor and brings me a black ghost and I don't feel that I am
                                                                                                        > experienced enough to handle this fish. It is a beautiful fish but
                                                                                                        I can't
                                                                                                        > find much information about them. Has anyone had any experience
                                                                                                        with these
                                                                                                        > fish that could offer me some advice. I would hate for something
                                                                                                        to happen
                                                                                                        > to him because of my ignorance.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                                                        > Lynda
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        > From: Mike McGough [SMTP:mamcgo@s...]
                                                                                                        > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 1:59 PM
                                                                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: HELP Please!!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > << File: ATT00055.html >>
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1289 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie - black slime algae
                                                                                                        Check the phosphate levels of your tapwater first. Check the phosphorus
                                                                                                        level of your food, it'l be on the label of any reputable brand. If
                                                                                                        either of these are high, it'll lend itself to algae. If this is a
                                                                                                        diatom issue, adding silicate removing resins to your filter might help.

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1290 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Playing Taps
                                                                                                        if your reation is a suger/yeast reator, ethenol could get in your tank.
                                                                                                        As you could imagine, alcohol is very damaging to fish, burning gills
                                                                                                        among other things.

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1291 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie - black slime algae
                                                                                                        Thanks to everyone for their suggestions! I have to be honest and
                                                                                                        say I've been pretty lazy with checking the water conditions in this
                                                                                                        tank. I used to check it regularly with the 55 gallon and for some
                                                                                                        reason having a smaller tank and less sensitive fish - I've just
                                                                                                        been lazy. I'll be checking it right after I get done with this
                                                                                                        post. I should have been thinking about the phosphates and didn't,
                                                                                                        thank you so much for the reminder.

                                                                                                        Right now I'm just feeding the TetraMin granules, 1.4% phosphorus -
                                                                                                        and really, with only 6 danios and the betta and catfish it's only a
                                                                                                        small pinch. With the monodactylus & mbuna I used to feed a lot of
                                                                                                        live food - blood worms/brine shrimp/mosquito larvae. For some
                                                                                                        reason this algae is not growing on any of the live plants, just the
                                                                                                        glass and rocks and it can be peeled off in sheets.

                                                                                                        Decided to do the testing while still posting - the test kit I'm
                                                                                                        using is by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals - not the dry tabs but the
                                                                                                        liquid chemicals. (It's one of their master kits.) It only tests
                                                                                                        the ph, nitrates, chlorine, ammonia and water hardness. It doesn't
                                                                                                        have a separate phosphate test. Everything has come up pretty good
                                                                                                        ( ph=7.2; nitrate=0; clorine=0; ammonia=0; hardness=moderate) but I
                                                                                                        did just clean out the black algae and did the 1/4 water change last
                                                                                                        night (I do add a little Stress Coat with the water change - don't
                                                                                                        know if I really should?). I'll test again at the end of the week
                                                                                                        and see if anything has changed. I should have tested before the
                                                                                                        water change but as I said, I've been lazy with it. I never even
                                                                                                        thought of the water here being different than the water where I
                                                                                                        used to live and I really should have. I've been mainly going by
                                                                                                        the health of the fish.

                                                                                                        I'm going to look into the American Flag fish that was also
                                                                                                        suggested - I'm not familiar with them but I've been out of the loop
                                                                                                        for buying fish for quite a while, especially with the fresh water
                                                                                                        tropicals.

                                                                                                        Thank you all again for your help!

                                                                                                        Peggy


                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                        bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                        > Check the phosphate levels of your tapwater first. Check the
                                                                                                        phosphorus
                                                                                                        > level of your food, it'l be on the label of any reputable brand.
                                                                                                        If
                                                                                                        > either of these are high, it'll lend itself to algae. If this is a
                                                                                                        > diatom issue, adding silicate removing resins to your filter might
                                                                                                        help.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1292 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Oh well... Cory is dying
                                                                                                        I thought the last of the 3 corys we had bought would live since it survived
                                                                                                        that terrible nitrite spike that seemed to last forever. Well, the water is
                                                                                                        testing great now, but the cory is barely moving. When I noticed it, the
                                                                                                        platys all seemed to be picking on it, shoving it around with their noses.
                                                                                                        Don't know if they were trying to help by getting it moving again or if this
                                                                                                        is the cause of the problem. His eyes seem to be glazed over. Not shiny
                                                                                                        black like they were. I've put the little net you use for babies in the
                                                                                                        tank so at least he's separated. I put some food in for him, but there is
                                                                                                        no interest, it seems.

                                                                                                        I really had become attached to him. He's a tough guy because the other 2
                                                                                                        corys were dead within 4 days and that was weeks ago.

                                                                                                        Just thought I'd check in with you.

                                                                                                        Mary
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1293 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Guppy Problems
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Hi there..... I have lost 4 guppies in the past week and each of them are displaying the same pattern, and a new one to me.     Roughly 1-2 days before my guppies have died, they have developed a faded line / stripe / area that runs from the dorsal fin down under the belly near the under fins.... It is not ick or anything ON the fish,,,,,, and is only on ONE side of the fish as far as I can tell.  It is almost like its lost its color in one area.... right from the top down around one side to its belly.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Has anyone seen this before or do you have ANY idea what this is, or what is causing it? ALL water tests are normal, I checked here many times and took a sample to my LFS yesterday and they had NO idea at all.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have another one that developed the same faded line over night last night, but she is still acting fine so far.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Thanks so much in advance for your input!
                                                                                                        hugs,  Kelly 
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1294 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Playing Taps
                                                                                                        Ok, but this is the same solution everyone else on the net is using and
                                                                                                        havn't heard any problems from that. I came home from bowling just now to
                                                                                                        find ANOTHER bala shark gone. That's 4 sharks in 3 days. I'm down to 2
                                                                                                        sharks now. I went and bought some ick-rid, lets hope that it works
                                                                                                        (fingers crossed)

                                                                                                        Edward
                                                                                                        http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        From: <bucks_boogie@...>
                                                                                                        To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:43 AM
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Playing Taps


                                                                                                        > if your reation is a suger/yeast reator, ethenol could get in your tank.
                                                                                                        > As you could imagine, alcohol is very damaging to fish, burning gills
                                                                                                        > among other things.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1295 From: Marie Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: New member
                                                                                                        Hi all, my name is Marie and I just joined your group. I have a 55
                                                                                                        gal with 5 Clown Loaches, 5 other Botia, but I can not find a
                                                                                                        picture to know their exact name. There are also 2 large Silver
                                                                                                        Dollars, 1 Upside down catfish, 2 White spotted Doradid, one I have
                                                                                                        had for 7 years. All the other fish I have had for about 5 years.
                                                                                                        One problem I am having is this brown stuff on the glass. It wipes
                                                                                                        off easy but look horrid!
                                                                                                        I have also order plants from plant depot in Florida, and received
                                                                                                        them today. They look real good, but I think I made a big mistake
                                                                                                        by ordering 1 pound of duckweed!! I am know trying to remove it off
                                                                                                        the top of the water..
                                                                                                        I look forward to learning more about plants. I do not plan on
                                                                                                        adding any other fish to my tank at this time. I love the plants.
                                                                                                        Any suggestions on plants keeping are welcomed.

                                                                                                        Thanks Marie
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1296 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                                        Hi,
                                                                                                        Many/most plants will not grow under a covering of duckweed. Did the brown covering coincide with the growth of duckweed? I don't know much about plants, but I've had duckweed. and you could get a pound from one plant in short order, under good conditions. The duckweed effects the quality of light in your tank, and it could orient light conducive to its growth.
                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                        > Hi all, my name is Marie and I just joined your group. I have a 55
                                                                                                        > gal with 5 Clown Loaches, 5 other Botia, but I can not find a
                                                                                                        > picture to know their exact name. There are also 2 large Silver
                                                                                                        > Dollars, 1 Upside down catfish, 2 White spotted Doradid, one I have
                                                                                                        > had for 7 years. All the other fish I have had for about 5 years.
                                                                                                        > One problem I am having is this brown stuff on the glass. It wipes
                                                                                                        > off easy but look horrid!
                                                                                                        > I have also order plants from plant depot in Florida, and received
                                                                                                        > them today. They look real good, but I think I made a big mistake
                                                                                                        > by ordering 1 pound of duckweed!! I am know trying to remove it off
                                                                                                        > the top of the water..
                                                                                                        > I look forward to learning more about plants. I do not plan on
                                                                                                        > adding any other fish to my tank at this time. I love the plants.
                                                                                                        > Any suggestions on plants keeping are welcomed.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Thanks Marie
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1297 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                                        Marie,
                                                                                                        How old is your tank? New tanks normally have problems setting plants.
                                                                                                        The brown dust algae is primarily caused by excess of nitrates and excess of
                                                                                                        light. Bristle nose plecs are one of the best in consuming this algae
                                                                                                        though. But you probably need to do more frequent water changes and set a
                                                                                                        proper lighting schedule.
                                                                                                        Duckweed is as the name says a Weed, I have been struggling myself when some
                                                                                                        came stuck to riccia that u had ordered. I have redone my 90 gallon tank
                                                                                                        twice since then, but have not been able to eradicate it 100%. Every month I
                                                                                                        have to take a net and filter out the top as much as I can but it still
                                                                                                        returns. This is the only way to do it. Or trim all your plants to 3 inches
                                                                                                        below surface and then do a net cleanup of the surface for a week everyday.
                                                                                                        This may help. I cannot trim my plants down to that level hence I am
                                                                                                        stranded.
                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                        >From: Marie [mailto:rmhibl@...]
                                                                                                        >Sent: 15 March 2004 21:20
                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                        >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New member
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Hi all, my name is Marie and I just joined your group. I have a 55
                                                                                                        >gal with 5 Clown Loaches, 5 other Botia, but I can not find a
                                                                                                        >picture to know their exact name. There are also 2 large Silver
                                                                                                        >Dollars, 1 Upside down catfish, 2 White spotted Doradid, one I have
                                                                                                        >had for 7 years. All the other fish I have had for about 5 years.
                                                                                                        >One problem I am having is this brown stuff on the glass. It wipes
                                                                                                        >off easy but look horrid!
                                                                                                        >I have also order plants from plant depot in Florida, and received
                                                                                                        >them today. They look real good, but I think I made a big mistake
                                                                                                        >by ordering 1 pound of duckweed!! I am know trying to remove it off
                                                                                                        >the top of the water..
                                                                                                        >I look forward to learning more about plants. I do not plan on
                                                                                                        >adding any other fish to my tank at this time. I love the plants.
                                                                                                        >Any suggestions on plants keeping are welcomed.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Thanks Marie
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1298 From: Kenneth Hall Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: cleaning tank
                                                                                                        Somebody gave me a tank they had sitting around in their garage. What would be the best way for me to clean the tank before I start to set it up? I don't want to use anything that would harm the fish.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                        Ken
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1299 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: cleaning tank
                                                                                                        Hi Ken,

                                                                                                        You can go to your local fish store and pay hi dollar for aquarium
                                                                                                        safe glass cleaner, OR you can use warm water and a mild dish
                                                                                                        detergent like Dawn. just be sure to rinse thoughly with cold water.
                                                                                                        Another tip I would do if I were you is to fill the tank with
                                                                                                        water. preferably outside some where that will not be harmed if the
                                                                                                        tank leaks. Leave it set a couple days to ensure that the seals are
                                                                                                        not going to spring a leak. Cheaper to lose a tank of water outside
                                                                                                        than to lose it in your living room not to mention the loss of fish.
                                                                                                        Hope this helps

                                                                                                        Mike


                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Hall"
                                                                                                        <kennhall@d...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > Somebody gave me a tank they had sitting around in their garage.
                                                                                                        What would be the best way for me to clean the tank before I start to
                                                                                                        set it up? I don't want to use anything that would harm the fish.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Thanks,
                                                                                                        > Ken
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1300 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: cleaning tank
                                                                                                        I found that when I rinse my plastic-dishware with cold water a longer time is required to rinse, and different types of plastic take different times to rinse, to degrees that I become exasperated with the process. Igloo beverage containers are some of the worst. The hotter the water the less time it takes to rinse. I'm not recommending hot water, because of the problems with tanks that are'nt specified for hot-water cleaning. I'm trying to get at the similarity of plastic to silicone-sealant, and without amplifying possibly neurotic potential in perceiving what kind of hell could reside in/on silicone-gel-sealant, for helpless little fishes, etc., I would feel moresecure in buying a product like Jungle Aquarium Cleaner, (which I've bought) because they alledge their product is safe for cleaning the interior of the aquarium. I've used salt-water at times, and vinegar, but have never used dishwashing liquid. I've used diluted bleach to clean the tank, and THOROUGHLY RINSED WITH A HOSE WITH AFFIXED PRESSURE-NOZZLE, to get at the places between the plastic frame and glass/sealant. Bringing the temperature of the water up to the temperature of 90 degrees or so helps volatilize whatever properties exist in the cleaning agent. I remember there are high temperatures associated with treating ICK, and the one I remember is around 90 degrees.
                                                                                                        (There are some plastice that I could run under hot water (tolerable) for five minutes, and still see an inordinat number of bubbles in the container when I shut the faucet, so I should be hoping you're not going to clean a plastic aquarium with dish detergent, and cold water)
                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                        > Hi Ken,
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > You can go to your local fish store and pay hi dollar for aquarium
                                                                                                        > safe glass cleaner, OR you can use warm water and a mild dish
                                                                                                        > detergent like Dawn. just be sure to rinse thoughly with cold water.
                                                                                                        > Another tip I would do if I were you is to fill the tank with
                                                                                                        > water. preferably outside some where that will not be harmed if the
                                                                                                        > tank leaks. Leave it set a couple days to ensure that the seals are
                                                                                                        > not going to spring a leak. Cheaper to lose a tank of water outside
                                                                                                        > than to lose it in your living room not to mention the loss of fish.
                                                                                                        > Hope this helps
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Mike
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Hall"
                                                                                                        > <kennhall@d...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > > Somebody gave me a tank they had sitting around in their garage.
                                                                                                        > What would be the best way for me to clean the tank before I start to
                                                                                                        > set it up? I don't want to use anything that would harm the fish.
                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                        > > Thanks,
                                                                                                        > > Ken
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1301 From: Jeanne Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: New here/questions
                                                                                                        HI Im new here and rather new to this fish keeping thing. Alittle
                                                                                                        about us!(my fish that is)
                                                                                                        we have a ten gallon tank with a pleco,a chinese alge eater, blood
                                                                                                        fin tetra,gold barb,zebra danio. I have a 2.5 gallon with a
                                                                                                        pristella in it only because one of the tank mates was fin nipping!
                                                                                                        And he/she has lost some fin!
                                                                                                        So now we are looking for the bully! So if you have any ideas of who
                                                                                                        would be the bully I would be interested in hearing about it.
                                                                                                        I an their only feeder and I feed them twice a day!
                                                                                                        Or if you could lend me any information about keeping a community
                                                                                                        tank that would be great!

                                                                                                        we also have two male bettas in seperate tanks of course dont want
                                                                                                        to scare anyone.
                                                                                                        Thanks! My name is Jeanne
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1302 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: cleaning tank
                                                                                                        Ken, I acquired my current 15 gallon tank in much the same way. A friend gave me their old tank, and sad to say, it was in HORRIBLE condition when I got it. It had lime deposits and really old algae stains and all kinds of gunk in it. Even old fish parts. *shudder* I would HOPE that the tank you were given was in MUCH better condition than mine was. What I had to do for mine (and would not wish this activity on ANYONE, it took several days!) was to put on latex gloves. The tank was THAT BAD. Then I had to wash the tank out with dish detergent and water. I did this outside, and I did this three or four times. I scrubbed with a sponge that has the scrubbing surface safe for non-stick pans. I rinsed the tank out twice, then I got the CLR in there. (Calcium-Lime-Rust remover, easily available, but boy this stuff STINKS so if you have to use it, use it in a very well ventilated area.)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Then the fun part, once the scrubbing was done ... rinsing the tank. Repeatedly. I think I ended up rinsing the darn thing at least  10 times with cold water, using the outside spigot. (I think I already mentioned that I did this all outside. The tank was so nasty it stunk, and I was not bringing a tank that smelled of dead fish into my house.) Once I was done rinsing I had a pretty good sized puddle underneath my outside spigot.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Then I made sure I washed all of the attachments that I was keeping. (ended up getting a whole new filter, the one that was with the tank was missing something) I rinsed the gravel seven or eight times with clear water, sifting through it with my fingers to get all the fish parts out of there.  (yes, I said fish parts. I don't know HOW the tank got into the condition it was in, and frankly I don't WANT TO.)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Then I set up the tank, and filled it with water, set the filters going, ran it for a week. Then I changed the water (I think I did about a 80% water change that first time) to make SURE that the tank had been rinsed very well. All of this before EVER putting fish in it. I ran the filter again for another week before I got my first fish. (three black mollies, which I later discovered were not the ideal fish to start a tank with)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        This all depends on how bad the tank is when you get it. If it's just a little dusty from not being used, you should be fine with dish soap and a sponge, and rinsing it several times completely.  And more than likely I made TONS of mistakes, as this was my first tank. So I wouldn't necessarily recommend what I did, either, but then what I did didn't seem to have any effect on the fish.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Date: 03/15/04 18:41:11
                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cleaning tank
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Somebody gave me a tank they had sitting around in their garage. What would be the best way for me to clean the tank before I start to set it up? I don't want to use anything that would harm the fish.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                        Ken
                                                                                                         

                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1303 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: cleaning tank
                                                                                                        Hi,
                                                                                                        Aside from fish-store proprietors that have a deserved or undeserved reputation generally for being more or less interested in selling fish and equipment, there is'nt an authority I've read that would recommend using soap in an aquarium. Some businesses did'nt necessarily get into a business for profit alone, and caring for fish may have been their prime motive, and that could have bben backed up by college degrees in chemistry, icthyology, and I don't know how many other degrees. They're not middlemen, who may be more or less motivated by prifit, but people who've developed products they know, and know are safe, to the best of their ability, for aquarium inhabitants. You could clean your tank with just about anything, but since some of the products designed for aquarium cleaning are inexpensive, unless you're near or in poverty level, (sometimes because you've spread your ample resources too thinly, or you don't think the tank deserves that extra buck or two, or ten) it's best to rely on products you can believe, or understand are safe. Soap not for aquarium use is'nt designed to degrade to harmlesness, or not bind to lime/calcium deposits that are invisible (or almost so to a person with adequate perceptions). I would'nt miss a chance to rely on an authority on aquarium cleaning if I could. I have no financial interest in 'Jungle Labs', but I know they have a product for washing aquarium gravel, and aquarium interiors (empty), and they have an 800 number. That may turn you off because of the proprietary ( hence perceived as mercenary) element, but I'd try their stuff, or someones' stuff that was designed for aquarium use for peace of mind.
                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1304 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
                                                                                                         LMAO Is there any way to get livebearing fish to STOP having babies??
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have ONLY female adults ... two female Fancy Mollies and two female black and orange Platys ... and even though there are somewhere around 16 mollie fry swimming around the main tank now, and one platy fry, someone went and had MORE babies! I just spotted two or three more mollies hiding amongst the plants.  (the lack of males is not my fault, they just happened to be the fish that died off from the last stages of the tank cycling itself.)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        The tank is overstocked enough as it is, is there any way I can get them to QUIT having babies?? Sheesh! I know that livebearers are capable of holding off on their young, just having them in batches even without a male present. It was hard enough catching the fry the FIRST time and trying to isolate them. So now I have the NEW fry to try and catch and isolate, without catching the adult fish or the slightly older fry. Not to mention that my daughter's teachers dropped the ball as far as getting a tank set up for the classroom. (I was SUPPOSED to be giving them three or four of the fry from the last group but they never got their tank set up, so I'm not able to get rid of ANY of my fry.) I guess I could just leave the new fry to fend for themselves, and not go out of my way to save them, since I honestly don't have the room for them. I've already got about twice the amount of fish I'm comfortable with in my 15 gallon tank. (and here I thought when I first got this tank that it was pretty big!)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        So apart from starting a whole new tank, which is really not economically feasible at this point, is there any thing I can do to curb their reproduction?
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have already asked at the local fish stores to see if any of them would like my fry, and got turned down by all of the stores. I'm not exactly sure how well Mollies would hold up in an outdoor pond, or else I'd give them to my mother. Granted, we live in a really warm area of the US, and spring starts this Saturday. Warm weather is already here, I broke out my tank tops and shorts. But I don't think water temperature is anywhere near what Mollies like. And none of my friends have tanks. So I'm apparently STUCK with way too many fish for my tank, and I seem to remember reading somewhere that the more populated a tank is, the more babies they'll have.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        *grin* Anyone in the Savannah, GA area that wants some mollies?
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1305 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: cleaning calcium/lime deposits
                                                                                                        Hi,
                                                                                                        Here's a link, just because I like their products. Not because of
                                                                                                        financial interests.

                                                                                                        http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.phtml?item=NL106

                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1306 From: mike mather Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                                        Marie, just some info you may or may not know. You will need good light to grow plants well, 2 watts per gallon as a minimum will keep things growing pretty well. The other thing that really helps, is CO2. I have a 30gal tall tank with two compact florescent 65watt bulbs and DIY CO2 using the water, yeast and sugar in a soda bottle. All of my plants have just exploded with growth and I have to prune them about once a week! My algae problems are minimal because of the lush plant growth, which sucks nutrients from the algae. I have a Siamese and  Gold algae eater's, plus about six Nerite Snails. The snails are just unbelievably efficient at eating algae off the glass and the plant leaves as well. The Nerite will not reproduce in the tank, as they are saltwater and the eggs will not hatch in freshwater. Just my contribution for you. Best of luck with you tank!           
                                                                                                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                        Marie <rmhibl@...> wrote:                                                    Mike
                                                                                                        Hi all, my name is Marie and I just joined your group.  I have a 55
                                                                                                        gal with 5 Clown Loaches, 5 other Botia, but I can not find a
                                                                                                        picture to know their exact name.  There are also 2 large Silver
                                                                                                        Dollars, 1 Upside down catfish, 2 White spotted Doradid, one I have
                                                                                                        had for 7 years. All the other fish I have had for about 5 years. 
                                                                                                        One problem I am having is this brown stuff on the glass. It wipes
                                                                                                        off easy but look horrid! 
                                                                                                        I have also order plants from plant depot in Florida, and received
                                                                                                        them today.  They look real good, but I think I made a big mistake
                                                                                                        by ordering 1 pound of duckweed!!  I am know trying to remove it off
                                                                                                        the top of the water..
                                                                                                        I look forward to learning more about plants.  I do not plan on
                                                                                                        adding any other fish to my tank at this time.  I love the plants.
                                                                                                        Any suggestions on plants keeping are welcomed.

                                                                                                        Thanks Marie



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                                                                                                        Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam

                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1307 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        lol I have no idea, I was actually wondering about fish birth control today :)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have 9 platies, 3M/6F, most of which were purchsed in Dec. Until 2 weeks ago I had only seen 1 fry and was so upset I wasn't about to save it. I didn't buy platies with the intention of breeding...I knew they were livebearers but figured I would save 1 and after that let nature take its course.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Sooooo 2 weeks ago I see a fry and wow, I net it. Very proud and happy. A week later I'm celebrating the fact that I've managed to keep the little guy/girl alive when I find 3 more. Net them then over the next few days net more & more. As of today I think there are close to 24...so much for letting nature take its course lmao
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I haven't called any lfs to see if they'll take them. I have a friend who will take maybe 4 or 5. And I have a very pregnant guppy who's fry I'd like to catch at least a few of...she's a pretty gold/purple/blue mix, although I know being guppies that may be no indication of what her fry will look like!
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have 4 male Endler's in a different tank and am in contact with a breeder who can get me some females. I've heard they breed as easily as guppies and not being able to find them locally I'm hoping lfs will take them, if even just for store credit.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Sorry I couldn't be more help since I'm kind of in the same situation :)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Theresa
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:35 PM
                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] any way to get livebearers to STOP??

                                                                                                         LMAO Is there any way to get livebearing fish to STOP having babies??
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have ONLY female adults ... two female Fancy Mollies and two female black and orange Platys ... and even though there are somewhere around 16 mollie fry swimming around the main tank now, and one platy fry, someone went and had MORE babies! I just spotted two or three more mollies hiding amongst the plants.  (the lack of males is not my fault, they just happened to be the fish that died off from the last stages of the tank cycling itself.)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        The tank is overstocked enough as it is, is there any way I can get them to QUIT having babies?? Sheesh! I know that livebearers are capable of holding off on their young, just having them in batches even without a male present. It was hard enough catching the fry the FIRST time and trying to isolate them. So now I have the NEW fry to try and catch and isolate, without catching the adult fish or the slightly older fry. Not to mention that my daughter's teachers dropped the ball as far as getting a tank set up for the classroom. (I was SUPPOSED to be giving them three or four of the fry from the last group but they never got their tank set up, so I'm not able to get rid of ANY of my fry.) I guess I could just leave the new fry to fend for themselves, and not go out of my way to save them, since I honestly don't have the room for them. I've already got about twice the amount of fish I'm comfortable with in my 15 gallon tank. (and here I thought when I first got this tank that it was pretty big!)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        So apart from starting a whole new tank, which is really not economically feasible at this point, is there any thing I can do to curb their reproduction?
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have already asked at the local fish stores to see if any of them would like my fry, and got turned down by all of the stores. I'm not exactly sure how well Mollies would hold up in an outdoor pond, or else I'd give them to my mother. Granted, we live in a really warm area of the US, and spring starts this Saturday. Warm weather is already here, I broke out my tank tops and shorts. But I don't think water temperature is anywhere near what Mollies like. And none of my friends have tanks. So I'm apparently STUCK with way too many fish for my tank, and I seem to remember reading somewhere that the more populated a tank is, the more babies they'll have.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        *grin* Anyone in the Savannah, GA area that wants some mollies?
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1308 From: Marie Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                                        Thank you Mike,  I have heard of this co2 thing but do not know any thing about it.
                                                                                                        Will it kill my fish?  How do you make it?  Also is there a special light I should have...
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Hugs Marie
                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Date: 03/15/04 21:52:41
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New member
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Marie, just some info you may or may not know. You will need good light to grow plants well, 2 watts per gallon as a minimum will keep things growing pretty well. The other thing that really helps, is CO2. I have a 30gal tall tank with two compact florescent 65watt bulbs and DIY CO2 using the water, yeast and sugar in a soda bottle. All of my plants have just exploded with growth and I have to prune them about once a week! My algae problems are minimal because of the lush plant growth, which sucks nutrients from the algae. I have a Siamese and  Gold algae eater's, plus about six Nerite Snails. The snails are just unbelievably efficient at eating algae off the glass and the plant leaves as well. The Nerite will not reproduce in the tank, as they are saltwater and the eggs will not hatch in freshwater. Just my contribution for you. Best of luck with you tank!            
                                                                                                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1309 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/15/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
                                                                                                        'Until 2 weeks ago I had only seen 1 fry and was so upset I wasn't about to save it.'
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Sorry, that should've said 'I wasn't able to save it.'
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Theresa
                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:02 PM
                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:any way to get livebearers to STOP??

                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        lol I have no idea, I was actually wondering about fish birth control today :)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have 9 platies, 3M/6F, most of which were purchsed in Dec. Until 2 weeks ago I had only seen 1 fry and was so upset I wasn't about to save it. I didn't buy platies with the intention of breeding...I knew they were livebearers but figured I would save 1 and after that let nature take its course.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Sooooo 2 weeks ago I see a fry and wow, I net it. Very proud and happy. A week later I'm celebrating the fact that I've managed to keep the little guy/girl alive when I find 3 more. Net them then over the next few days net more & more. As of today I think there are close to 24...so much for letting nature take its course lmao
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I haven't called any lfs to see if they'll take them. I have a friend who will take maybe 4 or 5. And I have a very pregnant guppy who's fry I'd like to catch at least a few of...she's a pretty gold/purple/blue mix, although I know being guppies that may be no indication of what her fry will look like!
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I have 4 male Endler's in a different tank and am in contact with a breeder who can get me some females. I've heard they breed as easily as guppies and not being able to find them locally I'm hoping lfs will take them, if even just for store credit.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Sorry I couldn't be more help since I'm kind of in the same situation :)
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Theresa
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1310 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie - black slime algae
                                                                                                        Hey, I'm no stranger to getting lazy, so you have a friend here! Just
                                                                                                        be careful what you add to the mbunas, you know they can be brats :-)

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1312 From: Letha S Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Daily Digest
                                                                                                        My settings for this group keeps getting changed to Daily Digest.  I am not making the change and would really prefer individual emails.  Is someone from the group making the change?  I checked the email address I was using and it says I have not been bouncing.  I changed it to a larger one just incase this is why it has been changed to daily digest.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        I find daily digest cluttered and I seldom bother to read through it.  I find in much faster to read and sort through the individual emails.  Please do not change it.
                                                                                                         
                                                                                                        Thanks
                                                                                                        Letha
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1313 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh well... Cory is dying
                                                                                                        The breeder nets are hugely stressfull. I wouldn't use them, just do a
                                                                                                        water change, add your salt and every other day, do more water changes
                                                                                                        for a while, adding the salt removed. Clean water can do miracles!!!

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1314 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oh well... Cory is dying
                                                                                                        BYW, saved many fish doing this, that's the reason for the suggestion.

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1315 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Guppy Problems
                                                                                                        Sounds like nitrate poisoning. Do some water changes and keep your temp
                                                                                                        at 80*. 25% over 3 weeks should help. Does it look like saddleback?

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1316 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Daily Digest
                                                                                                        My apologies to all who's mail preferences were changed to Daily
                                                                                                        Digest from Individual emails. If you have selected No Email or
                                                                                                        Special Notice, you were not affected. The changes were made in
                                                                                                        attempt to reduce the overwhelming number of members who were
                                                                                                        bouncing. The bouncing was partly due to the Very Large Mail Volume
                                                                                                        this group generates, 324 messages in 1/2 a months time, almost as
                                                                                                        many as last months total volume. It is great to see the group
                                                                                                        growing and becoming so active. We are currently #7 out of over 200+
                                                                                                        Yahoo Aquarium groups. Thanks again to the Moderators Amalthea &
                                                                                                        Kelly for helping to keep the group On Topic and Spam free. Aaron

                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Letha S"
                                                                                                        <lethas@u...> wrote:
                                                                                                        > My settings for this group keeps getting changed to Daily Digest.
                                                                                                        I am not making the change and would really prefer individual
                                                                                                        emails. Is someone from the group making the change? I checked the
                                                                                                        email address I was using and it says I have not been bouncing. I
                                                                                                        changed it to a larger one just incase this is why it has been
                                                                                                        changed to daily digest.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > I find daily digest cluttered and I seldom bother to read through
                                                                                                        it. I find in much faster to read and sort through the individual
                                                                                                        emails. Please do not change it.
                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                        > Thanks
                                                                                                        > Letha
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1317 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                                        First off, it sounds lke diatoms. If you can find some silicate
                                                                                                        remover, add that to yor filter. Second, I'll add you to my plant group
                                                                                                        for help.

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1318 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New member
                                                                                                        Nim, a great product by ToM, Oscar products is a surface skimmer. I
                                                                                                        sell it for about $15 US. It removes anything from the water surface.
                                                                                                        I could get you one if you can't find it in the UK. It'll get rid of
                                                                                                        anything that lives on the surface, as well as the scum that builds up
                                                                                                        due to normal biologiacal processes.

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1319 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
                                                                                                        In the words of Bob Barker, "Have your pet spayed or neutered.". Good
                                                                                                        luck with a fish, wish I was getting that much :-) You could always
                                                                                                        stuff an erasure in their hoochie or a q-tip. I mean, NO. Mother
                                                                                                        Nature has her plan....

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1320 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: cleaning calcium/lime deposits
                                                                                                        I had a complaint to Jungle and all I got was a smary bastard reply in
                                                                                                        ignorant fashion. Just my experience, but screw Jungle, they felt
                                                                                                        screw me. I used to sell thousands of dollars worth of their products
                                                                                                        each year, now nothing. They don't give a crap, idiots. I discussed
                                                                                                        this with their reps at a Bradley-Cauldwell trade show 3 weeks ago, and
                                                                                                        they could care less. What kind of business choice is that? Just one
                                                                                                        person's voice...

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1321 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Daily Digest
                                                                                                        Same thing happend to me, thought it was something I did, now I just
                                                                                                        think Yahoo did cause it's EVIL. Not funny, but easy enough to fix.

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1322 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Daily Digest
                                                                                                        So the Yahoo is not EVIL? I will not accept this information!
                                                                                                        Yahoo=EVIL This equation works for me...

                                                                                                        Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1323 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers toSTOP??
                                                                                                        Without the presence of males, it should be about 6-10 months when they will
                                                                                                        stop. Be sure not to have a male fry survive or add a male.
                                                                                                        Nim
                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1324 From: Short Jonathan Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                        Subject: Snails!!! Grrrrrrr
                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                          Does anyone have any tips for Snails?
                                                                                                          I've got some treatment which stuns them, but when I can't find them they
                                                                                                          get back up and carry on making a mockery of my plants! Damn little
                                                                                                          pillocks.
                                                                                                          Is there anything out there (fish wise) which would make a meal of these
                                                                                                          pesty little blighters?


                                                                                                          Jonny Short
                                                                                                          Avalon Court
                                                                                                          Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                          3rd Floor
                                                                                                          <mailto:Jonathan.short@churchill.com> Jonathan.short@churchill.com




                                                                                                          ___________________________________________________________________________


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                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1325 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Guppy Problems
                                                                                                           I am not sure what saddleback looks like ( or are you referring to just the normal saddleback term?)  If that is what you are referring to.. then YES.... it looks like my fish have a saddle on their backs.. however it is an area where the color has faded from the fish......
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          I guess I am 1/2 way on the road to recovery then, as this has been going on for over a week and I have been doing daily water changes     : )     My Nitrates tested normal and have all along.... the only thing that has been the least bit off has been the Alkalinity which has been ready 40..... ( I use the test strips for everything but amonia, and for that I use the glass vial and drops!)
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Hopefully I am on the right path and wont loose any more... The one that had just developed the new "patch" had her babies yesterday and seems to be doing fine....... an then I had another one have her babies overnight..... Needless to say I have fry on top of my fry right now, and 2 other females that are ready to pop at any time..... 
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          This is the first time that I have let my guppies have the fry in the tank ( running out of room in my baby tanks.... LOL) and I am amazed at how fast these little guys are and how good they are at hiding....  I thought for sure that they would be eaten as soon as the were born!!
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Thanks so much for the reply.... have a great day!   Kelly
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Date: 03/16/04 03:28:54
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Guppy Problems
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Sounds like nitrate poisoning.  Do some water changes and keep your temp
                                                                                                          at 80*. 25% over 3 weeks should help.  Does it look like saddleback?

                                                                                                          Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!

                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1326 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Snails!!! Grrrrrrr
                                                                                                          Hi Jonny,
                                                                                                          Clown Loach's will eat the snails and soon you should find yourself
                                                                                                          snail free. I used to crush the little pains in the butts but could
                                                                                                          never keep up with them. My lfs suggested Clown Loach's so I bought
                                                                                                          two. I now have no snails. Another way is the Red Claw Crab which
                                                                                                          also like to eat the snails. I now have six in my tank. Did not buy
                                                                                                          them because of snails myself as the Loach's had allready taken care
                                                                                                          of that problem. I just like them. Some do not like the crab approach
                                                                                                          and you may be one of these. Do your research on them first to make
                                                                                                          sure you want them in your tank if you decide to go that way.
                                                                                                          Hope this helps!

                                                                                                          Mike


                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Short Jonathan
                                                                                                          <jonathan.short@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > Does anyone have any tips for Snails?
                                                                                                          > I've got some treatment which stuns them, but when I can't find
                                                                                                          them they
                                                                                                          > get back up and carry on making a mockery of my plants! Damn little
                                                                                                          > pillocks.
                                                                                                          > Is there anything out there (fish wise) which would make a meal of
                                                                                                          these
                                                                                                          > pesty little blighters?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Jonny Short
                                                                                                          > Avalon Court
                                                                                                          > Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                          > 3rd Floor
                                                                                                          > <mailto:Jonathan.short@c...> Jonathan.short@c...
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          ______________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended
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                                                                                                          > individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the
                                                                                                          intended
                                                                                                          > recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the
                                                                                                          sender. You
                                                                                                          > should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems
                                                                                                          and should
                                                                                                          > not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to
                                                                                                          any other
                                                                                                          > person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily
                                                                                                          those of
                                                                                                          > Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries.
                                                                                                          Thank you.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number -
                                                                                                          2280426.
                                                                                                          > England.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley,
                                                                                                          Kent BR1
                                                                                                          > 1DP.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1327 From: tbittick Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 148
                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:

                                                                                                          > Message: 3
                                                                                                          > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:29:36 -0500 (EST)
                                                                                                          > From: bucks_boogie@...
                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: Playing Taps
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I'm sure this has been said, but here goes anyhow. Edward, what do you
                                                                                                          > mean by acceptable? No matter what your testers might say, a zero
                                                                                                          > reading is the only acceptable reading. One more question, is it
                                                                                                          > possible for the CO2 reaction chamber liquid to get in the tubing? Like
                                                                                                          > if it got tipped? Happened to a friend, little droplets of homemade
                                                                                                          > hooch were working their way up the tube into the tank. Just a thought.
                                                                                                          >



                                                                                                          You know, honestly, I hadn't considered that but it does sound like a great
                                                                                                          idea. I really want to add some very small clown loaches, but I think you're
                                                                                                          right. Fortunately enough I'm fifteen minutes from a GREAT LFS called Moby
                                                                                                          Dick's that's been there for more than 20 years. It's great because I don't
                                                                                                          have to go to places like PetSmart.

                                                                                                          I would have gotten more of the phantoms to start but as they were the first
                                                                                                          fish going into the tank I thought, and was advise in several different
                                                                                                          places, to start with just three. But another three would look awesome and
                                                                                                          yes, the three little guys I have now barely leave eachothers side.

                                                                                                          Thanks.

                                                                                                          T
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1328 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Guppy Problems
                                                                                                          Have you tried some Mela Fix? I add it to the tanks at work for 4 days
                                                                                                          after new arrivals and 5 days at home. It's not a cure all, but it does
                                                                                                          help. Oh, and the new Pima Fix has been helpful, too.

                                                                                                          Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1329 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: All bala sharks go to heaven
                                                                                                          Well ALL SEVEN of my bala sharks have entered the big blue sea.  My last two left me today so I'm left with 7 tiger barbs 2 opaline gourmi's 2 pangus catfish and a bottom feeder in my 80 gal.  I think I'm going to transfer my gourmi's to my 20 gal to see if they are a matting pair.  I don't know I might try chiclids next.  Maybe Oscars again.  Thank you all for everyone's help.  I have truely learned alot and really appreciated it!
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Take care,

                                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1330 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Snails!!! Grrrrrrr
                                                                                                          my bubblegum cichlids eat them non stop if they're around, i would
                                                                                                          think convicts might do the same, as well as blood parrots and other
                                                                                                          similar fish...
                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                          On Mar 16, 2004, at 5:08 AM, Short Jonathan wrote:

                                                                                                          > Does anyone have any tips for Snails?
                                                                                                          > I've got some treatment which stuns them, but when I can't find them
                                                                                                          > they
                                                                                                          > get back up and carry on making a mockery of my plants! Damn little
                                                                                                          > pillocks.
                                                                                                          > Is there anything out there (fish wise) which would make a meal of
                                                                                                          > these
                                                                                                          > pesty little blighters?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Jonny Short
                                                                                                          > Avalon Court
                                                                                                          > Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                          > 3rd Floor
                                                                                                          > <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > _______________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                          > This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only
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                                                                                                          > intended
                                                                                                          > recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender. 
                                                                                                          > You
                                                                                                          > should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and
                                                                                                          > should
                                                                                                          > not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any
                                                                                                          > other
                                                                                                          > person or entity.  The views expressed here are not necessarily those
                                                                                                          > of
                                                                                                          > Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries.
                                                                                                          > Thank you.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Churchill Insurance Group plc.  Company Registration Number - 2280426.
                                                                                                          > England.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent
                                                                                                          > BR1
                                                                                                          > 1DP.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                          http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                          don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1331 From: Julie Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 148
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          julie
                                                                                                          Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                          I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          From: tbittick
                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:20 AM
                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Digest Number 148

                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:

                                                                                                          > Message: 3
                                                                                                          >    Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:29:36 -0500 (EST)
                                                                                                          >    From: bucks_boogie@...
                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: Playing Taps
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I'm sure this has been said, but here goes anyhow.  Edward, what do you
                                                                                                          > mean by acceptable?  No matter what your testers might say, a zero
                                                                                                          > reading is the only acceptable reading.   One more question, is it
                                                                                                          > possible for the CO2 reaction chamber liquid to get in the tubing?  Like
                                                                                                          > if it got tipped?  Happened to a friend, little droplets of homemade
                                                                                                          > hooch were working their way up the tube into the tank.  Just a thought.
                                                                                                          >



                                                                                                          You know, honestly, I hadn't considered that but it does sound like a great
                                                                                                          idea. I really want to add some very small clown loaches, but I think you're
                                                                                                          right. Fortunately enough I'm fifteen minutes from a GREAT LFS called Moby
                                                                                                          Dick's that's been there for more than 20 years. It's great because I don't
                                                                                                          have to go to places like PetSmart.

                                                                                                          I would have gotten more of the phantoms to start but as they were the first
                                                                                                          fish going into the tank I thought, and was advise in several different
                                                                                                          places, to start with just three. But another three would look awesome and
                                                                                                          yes, the three little guys I have now barely leave eachothers side.

                                                                                                          Thanks.

                                                                                                          T


                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1332 From: Julie Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: newbie and apology
                                                                                                              Sorry for the previous post.  Fingers faster than the brain lately. 
                                                                                                              My name is Julie and my DH and I just started an aquarium earlier this month.  We currently have a 29 gallon with 6 platys and 2 bettas, one male, one female.  Yes, I know I will have to take either the male or the female out, but right now they are getting along really well and I just don't have the smaller tank set up yet.  I have been keeping an eye on their behavior and everything seems pretty copacetic now so I am shooting to take one or the other out later this week. 
                                                                                                              I have been reading the archives and learning alot.  I will probably continue to lurk and learn.  There seems to be a lot of good info passing through this list.
                                                                                                              I do have one question.  If I take out the male betta, will I be able to put smaller angelfish in the tank with the female?  Or don't the angelfish do well in a community tank.  I would like to get a new shape/color of fish in there, and I like the looks of the angel fish.  I have heard they can get territorial as they age.  Thanks!
                                                                                                          julie
                                                                                                          Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                          I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1333 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: plant question
                                                                                                          I have a couple of banana plants that when I first brought them home were
                                                                                                          in kind of sad shape. Each one had maybe one leaf. I was really happy when
                                                                                                          the both started growing new leaves although now I've discovered a
                                                                                                          disturbing trend.

                                                                                                          FWIW the two plants are on opposite ends of a 55 gallon tank.

                                                                                                          At first one plant had leave that started turning grey, almost, but not
                                                                                                          quite see through. That leaf is clearly dead although there appear to be
                                                                                                          two or three other green leaves still on it.

                                                                                                          On the second plant, the one new leaf grew, kind of blossomed and then did
                                                                                                          the same thing. That same plant has another leaf that has developed the
                                                                                                          same cololartion.

                                                                                                          All my other plants, and the banana plants for that fact, seem to be doing
                                                                                                          fine.

                                                                                                          I have noticed one thing that I haven't given much concern. The anachris
                                                                                                          leaves seem to have something on them that appear to be a light dusting of
                                                                                                          something. I don't know how else to describe it.

                                                                                                          Any thoughts?


                                                                                                          Tony
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1334 From: Kenneth Hall Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cleaning tank
                                                                                                          Erin, Thank you for the tank cleaning advice. This tank is also a 15 gallon tank and it's my first. It just has some dust and dirt in it but not much. The coincidence continues because black mollies are the first fish I planned to purchase. When you say that black mollies are not the ideal fish to start a tank with do you mean they are usually hard for beginners to keep or they should not be the first fish to go into a tank but added later? I have read that they need uniodized salt in the tank or they will get diseases easily. What kind of filters did you use for your tank?
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Ken
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 8:51 PM
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cleaning tank

                                                                                                          Ken, I acquired my current 15 gallon tank in much the same way. A friend gave me their old tank, and sad to say, it was in HORRIBLE condition when I got it. It had lime deposits and really old algae stains and all kinds of gunk in it. Even old fish parts. *shudder* I would HOPE that the tank you were given was in MUCH better condition than mine was. What I had to do for mine (and would not wish this activity on ANYONE, it took several days!) was to put on latex gloves. The tank was THAT BAD. Then I had to wash the tank out with dish detergent and water. I did this outside, and I did this three or four times. I scrubbed with a sponge that has the scrubbing surface safe for non-stick pans. I rinsed the tank out twice, then I got the CLR in there. (Calcium-Lime-Rust remover, easily available, but boy this stuff STINKS so if you have to use it, use it in a very well ventilated area.)
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Then the fun part, once the scrubbing was done ... rinsing the tank. Repeatedly. I think I ended up rinsing the darn thing at least  10 times with cold water, using the outside spigot. (I think I already mentioned that I did this all outside. The tank was so nasty it stunk, and I was not bringing a tank that smelled of dead fish into my house.) Once I was done rinsing I had a pretty good sized puddle underneath my outside spigot.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Then I made sure I washed all of the attachments that I was keeping. (ended up getting a whole new filter, the one that was with the tank was missing something) I rinsed the gravel seven or eight times with clear water, sifting through it with my fingers to get all the fish parts out of there.  (yes, I said fish parts. I don't know HOW the tank got into the condition it was in, and frankly I don't WANT TO.)
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Then I set up the tank, and filled it with water, set the filters going, ran it for a week. Then I changed the water (I think I did about a 80% water change that first time) to make SURE that the tank had been rinsed very well. All of this before EVER putting fish in it. I ran the filter again for another week before I got my first fish. (three black mollies, which I later discovered were not the ideal fish to start a tank with)
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          This all depends on how bad the tank is when you get it. If it's just a little dusty from not being used, you should be fine with dish soap and a sponge, and rinsing it several times completely.  And more than likely I made TONS of mistakes, as this was my first tank. So I wouldn't necessarily recommend what I did, either, but then what I did didn't seem to have any effect on the fish.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Date: 03/15/04 18:41:11
                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cleaning tank
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Somebody gave me a tank they had sitting around in their garage. What would be the best way for me to clean the tank before I start to set it up? I don't want to use anything that would harm the fish.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                          Ken
                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1335 From: Kenneth Hall Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cleaning calcium/lime deposits
                                                                                                          Hi Joe, Thank you for posting the junglelabs link.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Ken
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:43 PM
                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cleaning calcium/lime deposits

                                                                                                          Hi,
                                                                                                             Here's a link, just because I like their products. Not because of
                                                                                                          financial interests.

                                                                                                                 http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.phtml?item=NL106

                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1336 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cleaning calcium/lime deposits
                                                                                                          H'lo Ken'
                                                                                                          I did a quick search on GOOGLE, using the terms;

                                                                                                          Black mollies diseases difficulty

                                                                                                          ...........and one of the first sites had this info, which gave some
                                                                                                          relatively explicit information about starter fish. One of the elements
                                                                                                          mentioned regarding Black Mollies is, they like/require a goodly amount of
                                                                                                          space, and, if I remember correctly, a specific amount of salt, that may not
                                                                                                          have been mentioned in the info.
                                                                                                          http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/fish-popular.html

                                                                                                          Joe P.
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1337 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cleaning tank
                                                                                                          Well, I didn't know this when I purchased my black mollies, but they do require aquarium salt to prevent bacterial infections and fungal infections. The two females I had both died from what I guess was white spot? They had white areas around their mouths, and just sort of went all at once. The male died when our ammonia levels spiked from cycling.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          However! Fancy mollies are really tough little buggers. They're about the same price as black mollies, depending on the fish supplier. (some places have the "Fancy Mollies" as cheaper because I guess they are more common than the blacks.) They come in various color patterns. Right now I have one that is so light gold it is almost white, and has a yellow top fin. I also have another female that is orange-gold and light gold speckled. Then there is the 20 or so babies that are various colors, some have black areas and some are so lightly colored they still appear transparent.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Now, if you start your tank off from the beginning with salt in it, you might not have the problems I had with fungus and bacteria. The general consensus on aquarium salt is 1 tablespoon per five gallons of water. I give mine about a tablespoon and a half per five gallons, because mollies apparently prefer brackish water (or at least that is what I read) and package directions on aquarium salt generally refer to average tropical fish.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          I can give you loads of website links with information about black mollies. I'm not saying black mollies aren't wonderful fish, they really are, but for your beginner aquarist (like me) they are a little bit nit-picky about their water conditions. They are however great indicators of bacteria and fungus, because they catch it first! As with any species, there are pros and cons.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          I use an undergravel filter system ... since my 15 gallon is more tall than wide, it's about the same length and width dimensions as a 10 gallon. My undergravel filter has air lines and airstones on both sides, at the rear of the tank. However, ammonia cartridges won't fit in my filter system, so I have to keep a close eye on my ammonia levels and just keep up with frequent water changes. You might be better off with another filtration system that would be easier to use ammonia chip thingies with. I'm sure one of the more experienced members could give you more details on that.
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                          Date: 03/16/04 19:03:32
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cleaning tank
                                                                                                           
                                                                                                           The coincidence continues because black mollies are the first fish I planned to purchase. When you say that black mollies are not the ideal fish to start a tank with do you mean they are usually hard for beginners to keep or they should not be the first fish to go into a tank but added later?
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1338 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: more new fish?
                                                                                                          I've got a question. As background, my 55 gallon tank completed a fishless,
                                                                                                          live plant cycle, officially on Sunday. That afternoon we added three very
                                                                                                          small black phantom Tetras and three ghost shrimp. Last night I added three
                                                                                                          Otto algae eaters.

                                                                                                          Today I've gotten suggestions from a couple of places that the Tetras would
                                                                                                          be happier with a larger number of them and somebody else told me they have
                                                                                                          12 of these algae eaters in their 55 gallon tank.

                                                                                                          Since I'm NOT cycling the tank. Since it's already been through the cycle,
                                                                                                          do I still need to wait two to three weeks before adding more fish?

                                                                                                          The big reason I ask is that these phantoms are young, they must be based
                                                                                                          on the size. There are more of the fish they came in with at the store and
                                                                                                          if I'm going to add some, I'd really like to do it from the same group, and
                                                                                                          of the same size.

                                                                                                          The livestock turn over and our LFS is pretty heavy. They have a great rep
                                                                                                          and do a lot of business.

                                                                                                          Advice?

                                                                                                          Tony
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1339 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: more new fish?
                                                                                                          Cycling a new tank is dependent upon having nitrogen-fixing bacteria in the tank. I don't know of a test for nitrogen-fixing bacteria, so I can't tell you how you can find them. If you mean by cycling, that you tested your ammonia and nitrites after whatever your cycling-period was, and found it stable, it does'nt mean there are enough bacteria in the tank to handle the new fish-load.
                                                                                                          There are probably not enough bacteria in the tank to handle your new fish, so you should begin taking regular ammonia and nitrite readings, and change water as appropriate, 'till the tank stabilizes. Even then, it's not too good an idea to add a few dozen fish 'till you have enough nitro bacteria. Even then, it would be better for all concerned to add fewer fish over time. I don't know the sizes of the fdish you wrote about, but I know some are permanently small, and some can grow larger. A dozen lerge fish is'nt a good idea now. You could try sitting on your hands 'till the next ammo/nitrite reading.
                                                                                                          Joe P.



                                                                                                          > I've got a question. As background, my 55 gallon tank completed a fishless,
                                                                                                          > live plant cycle, officially on Sunday. That afternoon we added three very
                                                                                                          > small black phantom Tetras and three ghost shrimp. Last night I added three
                                                                                                          > Otto algae eaters.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Today I've gotten suggestions from a couple of places that the Tetras would
                                                                                                          > be happier with a larger number of them and somebody else told me they have
                                                                                                          > 12 of these algae eaters in their 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Since I'm NOT cycling the tank. Since it's already been through the cycle,
                                                                                                          > do I still need to wait two to three weeks before adding more fish?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The big reason I ask is that these phantoms are young, they must be based
                                                                                                          > on the size. There are more of the fish they came in with at the store and
                                                                                                          > if I'm going to add some, I'd really like to do it from the same group, and
                                                                                                          > of the same size.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The livestock turn over and our LFS is pretty heavy. They have a great rep
                                                                                                          > and do a lot of business.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Advice?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Tony
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1340 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: more new fish?
                                                                                                          Thanks Joe... mostly I'm mostly just talking about adding three more black
                                                                                                          phantom tetras, but don't want to rush things. I will continue checking the
                                                                                                          water. Thanks for the advice.

                                                                                                          Tony

                                                                                                          AT 08:54 PM 3/16/2004 j.pascavage@... offered the following words:
                                                                                                          > Cycling a new tank is dependent upon having nitrogen-fixing bacteria
                                                                                                          > in the tank. I don't know of a test for nitrogen-fixing bacteria, so I
                                                                                                          > can't tell you how you can find them. If you mean by cycling, that you
                                                                                                          > tested your ammonia and nitrites after whatever your cycling-period was,
                                                                                                          > and found it stable, it does'nt mean there are enough bacteria in the
                                                                                                          > tank to handle the new fish-load.
                                                                                                          > There are probably not enough bacteria in the tank to handle your new
                                                                                                          > fish, so you should begin taking regular ammonia and nitrite readings,
                                                                                                          > and change water as appropriate, 'till the tank stabilizes. Even then,
                                                                                                          > it's not too good an idea to add a few dozen fish 'till you have enough
                                                                                                          > nitro bacteria. Even then, it would be better for all concerned to add
                                                                                                          > fewer fish over time. I don't know the sizes of the fdish you wrote
                                                                                                          > about, but I know some are permanently small, and some can grow larger. A
                                                                                                          > dozen lerge fish is'nt a good idea now. You could try sitting on your
                                                                                                          > hands 'till the next ammo/nitrite reading.
                                                                                                          > Joe P.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > > I've got a question. As background, my 55 gallon tank completed a
                                                                                                          > fishless,
                                                                                                          > > live plant cycle, officially on Sunday. That afternoon we added three very
                                                                                                          > > small black phantom Tetras and three ghost shrimp. Last night I added
                                                                                                          > three
                                                                                                          > > Otto algae eaters.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Today I've gotten suggestions from a couple of places that the Tetras
                                                                                                          > would
                                                                                                          > > be happier with a larger number of them and somebody else told me they
                                                                                                          > have
                                                                                                          > > 12 of these algae eaters in their 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Since I'm NOT cycling the tank. Since it's already been through the cycle,
                                                                                                          > > do I still need to wait two to three weeks before adding more fish?
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > The big reason I ask is that these phantoms are young, they must be based
                                                                                                          > > on the size. There are more of the fish they came in with at the store and
                                                                                                          > > if I'm going to add some, I'd really like to do it from the same group,
                                                                                                          > and
                                                                                                          > > of the same size.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > The livestock turn over and our LFS is pretty heavy. They have a great rep
                                                                                                          > > and do a lot of business.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Advice?
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Tony
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1341 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: more new fish?
                                                                                                          Tony,
                                                                                                          My apologies. I thought you mentioned 'chinese algae eaters in your post. The ottos' don't grow that big.
                                                                                                          Joe P.
                                                                                                          > I've got a question. As background, my 55 gallon tank completed a fishless,
                                                                                                          > live plant cycle, officially on Sunday. That afternoon we added three very
                                                                                                          > small black phantom Tetras and three ghost shrimp. Last night I added three
                                                                                                          > Otto algae eaters.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Today I've gotten suggestions from a couple of places that the Tetras would
                                                                                                          > be happier with a larger number of them and somebody else told me they have
                                                                                                          > 12 of these algae eaters in their 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Since I'm NOT cycling the tank. Since it's already been through the cycle,
                                                                                                          > do I still need to wait two to three weeks before adding more fish?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The big reason I ask is that these phantoms are young, they must be based
                                                                                                          > on the size. There are more of the fish they came in with at the store and
                                                                                                          > if I'm going to add some, I'd really like to do it from the same group, and
                                                                                                          > of the same size.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The livestock turn over and our LFS is pretty heavy. They have a great rep
                                                                                                          > and do a lot of business.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Advice?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Tony
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1342 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: more new fish?
                                                                                                          No problem, but you're right. I've got six fish and together they're
                                                                                                          probably less than six inches all told.

                                                                                                          I waited a month for the cycle process, so it's not really about instant
                                                                                                          gratification. I just notice that my three Tetras are schooling and have
                                                                                                          been told that they'd be happier in a larger school. I was just thinking
                                                                                                          that if that's true -- and this might be silly of me -- that it might be
                                                                                                          cool to keep them with some fish they've already been with, perhaps were
                                                                                                          even born with, than a whole different batch in three weeks from now.

                                                                                                          I've got a lot of strong plants in this tank and am pretty comfortable with
                                                                                                          the levels. I just took them again and the nitrites and ammonia are both zero.


                                                                                                          Tony

                                                                                                          AT 08:59 PM 3/16/2004 j.pascavage@... offered the following words:
                                                                                                          > Tony,
                                                                                                          > My apologies. I thought you mentioned 'chinese algae eaters in your
                                                                                                          > post. The ottos' don't grow that big.
                                                                                                          > Joe P.
                                                                                                          > > I've got a question. As background, my 55 gallon tank completed a
                                                                                                          > fishless,
                                                                                                          > > live plant cycle, officially on Sunday. That afternoon we added three very
                                                                                                          > > small black phantom Tetras and three ghost shrimp. Last night I added
                                                                                                          > three
                                                                                                          > > Otto algae eaters.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Today I've gotten suggestions from a couple of places that the Tetras
                                                                                                          > would
                                                                                                          > > be happier with a larger number of them and somebody else told me they
                                                                                                          > have
                                                                                                          > > 12 of these algae eaters in their 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Since I'm NOT cycling the tank. Since it's already been through the cycle,
                                                                                                          > > do I still need to wait two to three weeks before adding more fish?
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > The big reason I ask is that these phantoms are young, they must be based
                                                                                                          > > on the size. There are more of the fish they came in with at the store and
                                                                                                          > > if I'm going to add some, I'd really like to do it from the same group,
                                                                                                          > and
                                                                                                          > > of the same size.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > The livestock turn over and our LFS is pretty heavy. They have a great rep
                                                                                                          > > and do a lot of business.
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Advice?
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Tony
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1343 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: more new fish?
                                                                                                          Black phantoms will be happier in a larger group but it is ok to wait to add
                                                                                                          more. Good choice, I think they're very nice looking fish :) Ghost shrimp
                                                                                                          are good cleaners and don't add much to the bio-load.

                                                                                                          Do you have enough algae for the otos? Those little guys are really
                                                                                                          dependent upon it. One good idea is to get some tank safe rocks or pieces of
                                                                                                          wood, put them in a bowl with water, and leave it near a window where it'll
                                                                                                          get sunshine...kind of like growing some oto treats :) The actual number of
                                                                                                          otos you have is a personal decision.


                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          From: "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                          To: "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium"
                                                                                                          <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                                                                          <tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:31 PM
                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] more new fish?


                                                                                                          > I've got a question. As background, my 55 gallon tank completed a
                                                                                                          fishless,
                                                                                                          > live plant cycle, officially on Sunday. That afternoon we added three very
                                                                                                          > small black phantom Tetras and three ghost shrimp. Last night I added
                                                                                                          three
                                                                                                          > Otto algae eaters.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Today I've gotten suggestions from a couple of places that the Tetras
                                                                                                          would
                                                                                                          > be happier with a larger number of them and somebody else told me they
                                                                                                          have
                                                                                                          > 12 of these algae eaters in their 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Since I'm NOT cycling the tank. Since it's already been through the cycle,
                                                                                                          > do I still need to wait two to three weeks before adding more fish?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The big reason I ask is that these phantoms are young, they must be based
                                                                                                          > on the size. There are more of the fish they came in with at the store and
                                                                                                          > if I'm going to add some, I'd really like to do it from the same group,
                                                                                                          and
                                                                                                          > of the same size.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The livestock turn over and our LFS is pretty heavy. They have a great rep
                                                                                                          > and do a lot of business.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Advice?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Tony
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1344 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: more new fish?
                                                                                                          My question is: how do you buy only three ghost shrimp. My LFS sells
                                                                                                          them at 25 for a dollar as feeders. I do not have anything big
                                                                                                          enough except maybe my crabs that can eat them. I just like them and
                                                                                                          they seem to thrive and reproduce well. I understand that they will
                                                                                                          also eat algea.

                                                                                                          Mike

                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Tony Bittick
                                                                                                          <tbittick@p...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > I've got a question. As background, my 55 gallon tank completed a
                                                                                                          fishless,
                                                                                                          > live plant cycle, officially on Sunday. That afternoon we added
                                                                                                          three very
                                                                                                          > small black phantom Tetras and three ghost shrimp. Last night I
                                                                                                          added three
                                                                                                          > Otto algae eaters.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Today I've gotten suggestions from a couple of places that the
                                                                                                          Tetras would
                                                                                                          > be happier with a larger number of them and somebody else told me
                                                                                                          they have
                                                                                                          > 12 of these algae eaters in their 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Since I'm NOT cycling the tank. Since it's already been through
                                                                                                          the cycle,
                                                                                                          > do I still need to wait two to three weeks before adding more fish?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The big reason I ask is that these phantoms are young, they must
                                                                                                          be based
                                                                                                          > on the size. There are more of the fish they came in with at the
                                                                                                          store and
                                                                                                          > if I'm going to add some, I'd really like to do it from the same
                                                                                                          group, and
                                                                                                          > of the same size.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > The livestock turn over and our LFS is pretty heavy. They have a
                                                                                                          great rep
                                                                                                          > and do a lot of business.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Advice?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Tony
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1345 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Another issue
                                                                                                          Remember the other day I wrote that my last Cory was dying? Well, it did.
                                                                                                          I told the lfs guy about the platy nipping at the cory and he said that's
                                                                                                          normal for fish to do that when another is dying.

                                                                                                          So anyway, we got 3 new corys today. I noticed a little while ago that the
                                                                                                          2 corys I can see, were being bullied by that same platy. Moved some stuff
                                                                                                          around and found the 3rd one. He looks pretty bad. Looks like his fins
                                                                                                          have been nipped some and he won't really move around much.

                                                                                                          I took the platy out of the tank and put it in with the betta. I have
                                                                                                          isolated the cory in the same tank, but using the net for babies like I did
                                                                                                          the other day.

                                                                                                          Anyone ever heard of a platy suddenly being aggressive?

                                                                                                          Thanks for any info.

                                                                                                          Mary
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1346 From: Mike McGough Date: 3/16/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Another issue
                                                                                                          Hi Mary,
                                                                                                          That a new on me but then i didn't know that Mollies could be
                                                                                                          aggressive. Since then I have learned that there are some bullies in
                                                                                                          most species if even rare. My problem had been an agressive male
                                                                                                          Molly killing all the Females I put in with him. Ended up taking him
                                                                                                          back to the LFS. They said it happens sometimes even in the most
                                                                                                          peaceful fish. Sounds like it has happened to you also.

                                                                                                          Mike


                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mary
                                                                                                          Ramsower, RVT" <tzuzoo@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > Remember the other day I wrote that my last Cory was dying? Well,
                                                                                                          it did.
                                                                                                          > I told the lfs guy about the platy nipping at the cory and he said
                                                                                                          that's
                                                                                                          > normal for fish to do that when another is dying.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > So anyway, we got 3 new corys today. I noticed a little while ago
                                                                                                          that the
                                                                                                          > 2 corys I can see, were being bullied by that same platy. Moved
                                                                                                          some stuff
                                                                                                          > around and found the 3rd one. He looks pretty bad. Looks like
                                                                                                          his fins
                                                                                                          > have been nipped some and he won't really move around much.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > I took the platy out of the tank and put it in with the betta. I
                                                                                                          have
                                                                                                          > isolated the cory in the same tank, but using the net for babies
                                                                                                          like I did
                                                                                                          > the other day.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Anyone ever heard of a platy suddenly being aggressive?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Thanks for any info.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Mary
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1347 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/17/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Another issue
                                                                                                          Mary

                                                                                                          I agree with Mike. Sometimes fish no matter what kind they are, they
                                                                                                          can be aggressive. I have a blue gourami named "KILLER" and he lives
                                                                                                          in 5 gallon tank omost by himself. (two snails and a little frog) He
                                                                                                          has killed about 5 other fish so far. I have tried him in two
                                                                                                          differernt tanks, but he only goes after fish his own shape. I have
                                                                                                          no idea why he acts like this. I didn't think gourami were aggressive
                                                                                                          fish. well good luck with your "killer" I know mine might have to
                                                                                                          find a new home if he doesn't shape up.

                                                                                                          Sherrie
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1348 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/17/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: newbie and apology

                                                                                                          Julie,

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          I think the female betta can do fine with a male in a 29 gallon tank. Best to have 2 females and 1 male combination however. I have kept 3 females to 1 male in a 25 gallon tank with lot of hiding places without any problems.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Angels should be fine, but yes, sometimes they do get overly aggressive when they age. They may also like the flowing fins of the male betta as dinner, so keep an eye on the angels when you get them.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           


                                                                                                          From: Julie [mailto:jaramey@...]
                                                                                                          Sent: 16 March 2004 18:48
                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] newbie and apology

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                              Sorry for the previous post.  Fingers faster than the brain lately. 

                                                                                                              My name is Julie and my DH and I just started an aquarium earlier this month.  We currently have a 29 gallon with 6 platys and 2 bettas, one male, one female.  Yes, I know I will have to take either the male or the female out, but right now they are getting along really well and I just don't have the smaller tank set up yet.  I have been keeping an eye on their behavior and everything seems pretty copacetic now so I am shooting to take one or the other out later this week. 

                                                                                                              I have been reading the archives and learning alot.  I will probably continue to lurk and learn.  There seems to be a lot of good info passing through this list.

                                                                                                              I do have one question.  If I take out the male betta, will I be able to put smaller angelfish in the tank with the female?  Or don't the angelfish do well in a community tank.  I would like to get a new shape/color of fish in there, and I like the looks of the angel fish.  I have heard they can get territorial as they age.  Thanks!

                                                                                                          julie
                                                                                                          Cheyenne , Wyoming
                                                                                                          I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.



                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1349 From: tbittick Date: 3/17/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: more new fish?
                                                                                                          I got the otos because my tank had started to develop some brown algae marks
                                                                                                          on the back of the thank. There should be plenty of food for them, but I
                                                                                                          plan on adding to their diet with algae wafers, zuchinni and such...

                                                                                                          Dan & Theresa writes:

                                                                                                          > Black phantoms will be happier in a larger group but it is ok to wait to add
                                                                                                          > more. Good choice, I think they're very nice looking fish :) Ghost shrimp
                                                                                                          > are good cleaners and don't add much to the bio-load.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Do you have enough algae for the otos? Those little guys are really
                                                                                                          > dependent upon it. One good idea is to get some tank safe rocks or pieces of
                                                                                                          > wood, put them in a bowl with water, and leave it near a window where it'll
                                                                                                          > get sunshine...kind of like growing some oto treats :) The actual number of
                                                                                                          > otos you have is a personal decision.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Theresa
                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          > From: "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                          > To: "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium"
                                                                                                          > <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>;
                                                                                                          > <tropicalfishclub@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                          > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:31 PM
                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] more new fish?
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >> I've got a question. As background, my 55 gallon tank completed a
                                                                                                          > fishless,
                                                                                                          >> live plant cycle, officially on Sunday. That afternoon we added three very
                                                                                                          >> small black phantom Tetras and three ghost shrimp. Last night I added
                                                                                                          > three
                                                                                                          >> Otto algae eaters.
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> Today I've gotten suggestions from a couple of places that the Tetras
                                                                                                          > would
                                                                                                          >> be happier with a larger number of them and somebody else told me they
                                                                                                          > have
                                                                                                          >> 12 of these algae eaters in their 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> Since I'm NOT cycling the tank. Since it's already been through the cycle,
                                                                                                          >> do I still need to wait two to three weeks before adding more fish?
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> The big reason I ask is that these phantoms are young, they must be based
                                                                                                          >> on the size. There are more of the fish they came in with at the store and
                                                                                                          >> if I'm going to add some, I'd really like to do it from the same group,
                                                                                                          > and
                                                                                                          >> of the same size.
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> The livestock turn over and our LFS is pretty heavy. They have a great rep
                                                                                                          >> and do a lot of business.
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> Advice?
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> Tony
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
                                                                                                          > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
                                                                                                          > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada.
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                                                                                                          > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1350 From: tbittick Date: 3/17/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: more new fish?
                                                                                                          Mine sells them as feeders, but also sells them 3 for a buck.


                                                                                                          Mike McGough writes:

                                                                                                          > My question is: how do you buy only three ghost shrimp. My LFS sells
                                                                                                          > them at 25 for a dollar as feeders. I do not have anything big
                                                                                                          > enough except maybe my crabs that can eat them. I just like them and
                                                                                                          > they seem to thrive and reproduce well. I understand that they will
                                                                                                          > also eat algea.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Tony Bittick
                                                                                                          > <tbittick@p...> wrote:
                                                                                                          >> I've got a question. As background, my 55 gallon tank completed a
                                                                                                          > fishless,
                                                                                                          >> live plant cycle, officially on Sunday. That afternoon we added
                                                                                                          > three very
                                                                                                          >> small black phantom Tetras and three ghost shrimp. Last night I
                                                                                                          > added three
                                                                                                          >> Otto algae eaters.
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> Today I've gotten suggestions from a couple of places that the
                                                                                                          > Tetras would
                                                                                                          >> be happier with a larger number of them and somebody else told me
                                                                                                          > they have
                                                                                                          >> 12 of these algae eaters in their 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> Since I'm NOT cycling the tank. Since it's already been through
                                                                                                          > the cycle,
                                                                                                          >> do I still need to wait two to three weeks before adding more fish?
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> The big reason I ask is that these phantoms are young, they must
                                                                                                          > be based
                                                                                                          >> on the size. There are more of the fish they came in with at the
                                                                                                          > store and
                                                                                                          >> if I'm going to add some, I'd really like to do it from the same
                                                                                                          > group, and
                                                                                                          >> of the same size.
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> The livestock turn over and our LFS is pretty heavy. They have a
                                                                                                          > great rep
                                                                                                          >> and do a lot of business.
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> Advice?
                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                          >> Tony
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1351 From: John Clothier Date: 3/17/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Help with First Planted Tank
                                                                                                          I need some advice on my planted tank. I started by laying a heater cable and then put down 3cm's of sand mixed with plant nutrient granules. I then put down a 3cm layer of coarse gravel. This was fine until about 2 weeks after doing it I noticed all my sand going black and when I stirred it up a whole load of Hydrogen Sulphide escaped. So, I stripped it down and started againa and guess what, 1 week later and the same thing is happening!! Any ideas?
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1352 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/17/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: more new fish?
                                                                                                          PetSmart here sells them for .29/ea, another lfs 10/$1.00

                                                                                                          My kribs, blue gourami, and loaches will eat ghost shrimp...surprisingly my
                                                                                                          dwarf puffers do not.


                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          From: "Mike McGough" <mamcgo@...>
                                                                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:21 PM
                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: more new fish?


                                                                                                          > My question is: how do you buy only three ghost shrimp. My LFS sells
                                                                                                          > them at 25 for a dollar as feeders. I do not have anything big
                                                                                                          > enough except maybe my crabs that can eat them. I just like them and
                                                                                                          > they seem to thrive and reproduce well. I understand that they will
                                                                                                          > also eat algea.
                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1353 From: Julie Date: 3/17/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: newbie and apology
                                                                                                          Nim
                                                                                                              Thank you very much for the reply.  I will keep the male betta in there for the time being and look for another female.  I will hold off on the angels for a while.  I would really hate to have my betta's fins shredded, he is such a beautiful shade of blue.
                                                                                                          julie
                                                                                                          Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                          I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                          Julie,

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          I think the female betta can do fine with a male in a 29 gallon tank. Best to have 2 females and 1 male combination however. I have kept 3 females to 1 male in a 25 gallon tank with lot of hiding places without any problems.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Angels should be fine, but yes, sometimes they do get overly aggressive when they age. They may also like the flowing fins of the male betta as dinner, so keep an eye on the angels when you get them.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1354 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/17/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: what a difference a day makes
                                                                                                          I wanted to thank the folks here who offered advice on adding additional
                                                                                                          black phantoms to my tank. The first three in my newly cycled tank were
                                                                                                          doing good, but tonight, when I added three more, it was VERY cool. Not
                                                                                                          only did they school, but the new fish were doing the things it took the
                                                                                                          first fish a couple of days getting comfortable with.

                                                                                                          The biggest of them (and they're all very small) seemed to be trying to
                                                                                                          establish dominance by chasing some of the new comers around.

                                                                                                          It was pretty cool either way.

                                                                                                          Thinking about adding just three more, but probably going to wait a little
                                                                                                          while. I'll check the water numbers in a day or so and see.

                                                                                                          Tony
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1355 From: klooster8 Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Black Ghost Question PLEASE RESPOND
                                                                                                          OK my black ghost is 10" long, the last couple of days he/she has
                                                                                                          been pretty slow and life less. Normally on the go most of the
                                                                                                          time.The only new addition to the tank is a heater.As I live in
                                                                                                          Australia there is no need for one during summer.(have to cool water
                                                                                                          down some times) All 5 tanks at the moment 6.39pm, the temps are 28
                                                                                                          degrees. I have had this fish for 2 years now ,with no heater. But
                                                                                                          decided to buy heaters for 2 of my tanks.The 4ft community tank has
                                                                                                          always had one but never really see it on.Could this be the problem
                                                                                                          or is it something else.Other fish in the ghost's tank are,sailfin
                                                                                                          pleco, 5 black widows and 3 long golden sucker fish or algae eaters.
                                                                                                          He is either lying close to the bottom in his tube or straight up and
                                                                                                          down like its sniffing the top of the water.4 days after the heater
                                                                                                          went in, bailed out nearly half of the water and did a gravel syphen.
                                                                                                          Whats up with this fish, please help.
                                                                                                          Cheers George :)
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1356 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help with First Planted Tank
                                                                                                          Hi John,

                                                                                                          I am new to planted tanks as well, I have 3 going and 1 more getting
                                                                                                          started. I have not yet used the heating cables, so I do not know for
                                                                                                          sure, but I have no reason to believe they are causing the problem.
                                                                                                          The likely reason you are seeing this is becuase you have sand as the
                                                                                                          first layer. Most of the Planted SOIL Substrate Reciepies I've read
                                                                                                          use sand on TOP. The sand on bottom is not getting any circulation
                                                                                                          and (forgetting the technical term at 3am)you get what you got.

                                                                                                          Are there any commerially available Planted Substrate Materials there?

                                                                                                          3cm does not sound like enough depth. The common recomendations I've
                                                                                                          seen say a Minimum of 3 Inches up to 5 inches for Improved Root
                                                                                                          Development.

                                                                                                          What kind of plants are you trying / interested in growing? What
                                                                                                          size / volume is your tank? What kind of lighting system are you
                                                                                                          using? What sort of fish do you plan on keeping?

                                                                                                          check out the files and links sections at the Left on Main Page, if
                                                                                                          you find any more good info, please add it to the growing collection,
                                                                                                          Thanks.

                                                                                                          Hope that helps,
                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                          Planted Aquarium Info
                                                                                                          Resources, Clubs, Forums, Databases, Groups, Information,
                                                                                                          Associations, etc...

                                                                                                          Files > Planted Tank Info
                                                                                                          ROOTED PLANT SOIL SUBSTRATE

                                                                                                          Sean Murphy's recipe for a planted tanks soil substrate? He's an
                                                                                                          aquatic biologist,and grows the most outrageous crypts and Madagascar
                                                                                                          lace! See I promise that he's a really nice guy, and generous with
                                                                                                          his recipe, time and overgrowth - he's given me a bucket (literally)
                                                                                                          of plants! He has given me permission to send you his recipe. You
                                                                                                          can see his tanks, using this substrate, posted on the PLANTED TANK
                                                                                                          FORUM at:
                                                                                                          http://www.planted tank.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3777

                                                                                                          BTW - the fish in these tanks had the most intense coloring I've eve
                                                                                                          seen in freshwater fish - it was really evident that they are all at
                                                                                                          the peak of health!

                                                                                                          ROOTED PLANT SUBSTRATE (SOIL SUBSTRATE)

                                                                                                          Use in a tank with rooted and stem plants; it's a waste of time for
                                                                                                          java fern, java moss, and Anubias. This substrate has the nutrient
                                                                                                          dense bottom layer of soil (about 2/3 total depth), a very thin
                                                                                                          middle layer of enhancements (negligible depth), and a top layer of
                                                                                                          pebble or gravel (about 1/3 total depth) for mechanical and cosmetic
                                                                                                          purposes.

                                                                                                          SUPPLIES:

                                                                                                          From Your Local Hardware Chain or Garden Supply (Home Depot?):

                                                                                                          Bagged Top Soil, the cheapest available - NO HUMUS [for a 2 - 3
                                                                                                          inch bottom layer depth in tank (about 1 lb / gal)]

                                                                                                          Potassium Sulphate (potassium source) - smallest bag available

                                                                                                          From LFS (Local Fish Shop):

                                                                                                          Dolomite(calcium source) - smallest bag available

                                                                                                          Cosmetic Substrate [for a 1 – 2 inch top layer depth in tank
                                                                                                          –
                                                                                                          (1 / 2 to 2 / 3 lbs per gallon)]

                                                                                                          From Local Craft or Ceramic Supply Store (Michaels?)

                                                                                                          Red Potters Clay (recommend "Malone Red Clay" from the
                                                                                                          Standard
                                                                                                          Clay Company, or other as available locally) 1 lb / 30 gal

                                                                                                          EQUIPMENT: Rubber Gloves, Bucket, Spatula

                                                                                                          INSTRUCTIONS:

                                                                                                          Bottom Layer:

                                                                                                          Scatter the dolomite and the potassium sulfate on the tank bottom
                                                                                                          first then put down the top soil. Fill with soil to about 2/3 the
                                                                                                          total desired substrate height.

                                                                                                          Middle Layer:

                                                                                                          Using plastic gloves, make slurry with clay & water till
                                                                                                          consistency of icing. Mix in large bucket. Very gooey!

                                                                                                          Using cup or small bowl to pour onto soil layer and spread slurry
                                                                                                          onto the soil layer like icing using a spatula for good
                                                                                                          distribution. VERY MESSY JOB!

                                                                                                          Top Layer:

                                                                                                          Place rooted plants on the middle layer, and cover with the
                                                                                                          cosmetic substrate to a depth consistent with the plant crown ant to
                                                                                                          your taste.





                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "John
                                                                                                          Clothier" <john@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > I need some advice on my planted tank. I started by laying a heater
                                                                                                          cable and then put down 3cm's of sand mixed with plant nutrient
                                                                                                          granules. I then put down a 3cm layer of coarse gravel. This was fine
                                                                                                          until about 2 weeks after doing it I noticed all my sand going black
                                                                                                          and when I stirred it up a whole load of Hydrogen Sulphide escaped.
                                                                                                          So, I stripped it down and started againa and guess what, 1 week
                                                                                                          later and the same thing is happening!! Any ideas?
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1357 From: John Clothier Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help with First Planted Tank
                                                                                                          Thanks everyone for the info. I think I'll go away and read some more and then try again
                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:54 AM
                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Help with First Planted Tank

                                                                                                          Hi John,

                                                                                                          I am new to planted tanks as well, I have 3 going and 1 more getting
                                                                                                          started. I have not yet used the heating cables, so I do not know for
                                                                                                          sure, but I have no reason to believe they are causing the problem.
                                                                                                          The likely reason you are seeing this is becuase you have sand as the
                                                                                                          first layer. Most of the Planted SOIL Substrate Reciepies I've read
                                                                                                          use sand on TOP. The sand on bottom is not getting any circulation
                                                                                                          and (forgetting the technical term at 3am)you get what you got.

                                                                                                          Are there any commerially available Planted Substrate Materials there?

                                                                                                          3cm does not sound like enough depth. The common recomendations I've
                                                                                                          seen say a Minimum of 3 Inches up to 5 inches for Improved Root
                                                                                                          Development.

                                                                                                          What kind of plants are you trying / interested in growing? What
                                                                                                          size / volume is your tank? What kind of lighting system are you
                                                                                                          using? What sort of fish do you plan on keeping?

                                                                                                          check out the files and links sections at the Left on Main Page, if
                                                                                                          you find any more good info, please add it to the growing collection,
                                                                                                          Thanks.

                                                                                                          Hope that helps,
                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                          Planted Aquarium Info
                                                                                                          Resources, Clubs, Forums, Databases, Groups, Information,
                                                                                                          Associations, etc...

                                                                                                          Files > Planted Tank Info
                                                                                                          ROOTED PLANT SOIL SUBSTRATE

                                                                                                          Sean Murphy's recipe for a planted tanks soil substrate?  He's an
                                                                                                          aquatic biologist,and grows the most outrageous crypts and Madagascar
                                                                                                          lace!  See  I promise that he's a really nice guy, and generous with
                                                                                                          his recipe, time and overgrowth - he's given me a bucket (literally)
                                                                                                          of plants!   He has given me permission to send you his recipe.  You
                                                                                                          can see his tanks, using this substrate,  posted on the PLANTED TANK
                                                                                                          FORUM at:
                                                                                                          http://www.planted tank.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3777

                                                                                                          BTW - the fish in these tanks had the most intense coloring I've eve
                                                                                                          seen in freshwater fish - it was really evident that they are all at
                                                                                                          the peak of health!

                                                                                                          ROOTED PLANT SUBSTRATE (SOIL SUBSTRATE)

                                                                                                          Use in a tank with rooted and stem plants; it's a waste of time for
                                                                                                          java fern, java moss, and Anubias. This substrate has the nutrient
                                                                                                          dense bottom layer of soil (about 2/3 total depth), a very thin
                                                                                                          middle layer of enhancements (negligible depth), and a top layer of
                                                                                                          pebble or gravel (about 1/3 total depth) for mechanical and cosmetic
                                                                                                          purposes.

                                                                                                          SUPPLIES:

                                                                                                          From Your Local Hardware Chain or Garden Supply (Home Depot?):

                                                                                                              Bagged Top Soil, the cheapest available - NO HUMUS [for a 2 - 3
                                                                                                          inch bottom layer depth in tank (about 1 lb / gal)]

                                                                                                              Potassium Sulphate (potassium source)  - smallest bag available

                                                                                                          From LFS (Local Fish Shop):

                                                                                                              Dolomite(calcium source) - smallest bag available

                                                                                                              Cosmetic Substrate [for a 1 – 2 inch top layer depth in tank
                                                                                                          –
                                                                                                          (1 / 2 to 2 / 3 lbs per gallon)]

                                                                                                          From Local Craft or Ceramic Supply Store (Michaels?)

                                                                                                              Red Potters Clay (recommend "Malone Red Clay" from the
                                                                                                          Standard
                                                                                                          Clay Company, or other as available locally) 1 lb / 30 gal

                                                                                                          EQUIPMENT:  Rubber Gloves, Bucket, Spatula

                                                                                                          INSTRUCTIONS:

                                                                                                          Bottom Layer:

                                                                                                              Scatter the dolomite and the potassium sulfate on the tank bottom
                                                                                                          first then put down the top soil. Fill with soil to about 2/3 the
                                                                                                          total desired substrate height.

                                                                                                          Middle Layer:

                                                                                                              Using plastic gloves, make slurry with clay & water till
                                                                                                          consistency of icing. Mix in large bucket. Very gooey!

                                                                                                              Using cup or small bowl to pour onto soil layer and spread slurry
                                                                                                          onto the soil layer like icing using a spatula for good
                                                                                                          distribution.  VERY MESSY JOB!

                                                                                                          Top Layer:

                                                                                                              Place rooted plants on the middle layer, and cover with the
                                                                                                          cosmetic substrate to a depth consistent with the plant crown ant to
                                                                                                          your taste.





                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "John
                                                                                                          Clothier" <john@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                          > I need some advice on my planted tank. I started by laying a heater
                                                                                                          cable and then put down 3cm's of sand mixed with plant nutrient
                                                                                                          granules. I then put down a 3cm layer of coarse gravel. This was fine
                                                                                                          until about 2 weeks after doing it I noticed all my sand going black
                                                                                                          and when I stirred it up a whole load of Hydrogen Sulphide escaped.
                                                                                                          So, I stripped it down and started againa and guess what, 1 week
                                                                                                          later and the same thing is happening!! Any ideas?


                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1358 From: tbittick Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Black Phantoms
                                                                                                          Well... I feel like I'm actually getting somewhere. I've got a tank, water,
                                                                                                          healthy plants and fish.

                                                                                                          As some background. I've got a 55 gallon tank that went through a month long
                                                                                                          cycle using some peat moss in the substrate for the plants and a couple of
                                                                                                          pinches of fish food for good measure.

                                                                                                          The nitrite and ammonia levels have been zero for going on five days now.

                                                                                                          Sunday we added our first three fish, black phantom tetras.

                                                                                                          As some of you may know I was a little worried (overly) because the fish
                                                                                                          didn't do much and seemed to kind of hover around the heater/filter. By the
                                                                                                          next day though they were cruising all over the place.

                                                                                                          Last night we added six more (with approval from the LFS who is VERY strict
                                                                                                          on water levels etc.)

                                                                                                          What a joy. It was a totally different experience. We added the new six
                                                                                                          three at a time over a course of about two hours. Their intro to the tank
                                                                                                          was completely different than the first three. They seemed to hook up with
                                                                                                          the old timers right away and started getting aquainted, or perhaps
                                                                                                          re-aquainted as they all came from the same batch.

                                                                                                          When we added the second batch of three the reacted slightly differen with a
                                                                                                          couple of them being more reserved.

                                                                                                          After they had a chance to acclimate we fed them some bring shrimp. Watching
                                                                                                          our new little friends go shrimp hunting was a ton of fun.

                                                                                                          I did notice one display that really grabbed me. I wish I could have watched
                                                                                                          it longer but there were kids up past their bed time and I was the only
                                                                                                          parent home.

                                                                                                          Two of the tetras started doing this, well, dance. A follow the leader if
                                                                                                          you will. My guess is there was some sort of competition or "fight" going on
                                                                                                          to establish the leader. I guess it could have been a mating thing but given
                                                                                                          the cirucmstances I highly doubt it.

                                                                                                          There were two phantoms involved, one slightly smaller than the other. For a
                                                                                                          while they played this sequence of follow the leader. Basically the smaller
                                                                                                          fish was chasing the bigger fish and mimicing its movements. Whenever they
                                                                                                          would stop it would confront the bigger fish with it's dorsal fin stretched
                                                                                                          as big as it could get it. Then they'd race off again with some intermittent
                                                                                                          bumping and when they stopped the fin thing would happen again. As I left it
                                                                                                          appeared as though the larger fish had started displaying his colors as
                                                                                                          well.

                                                                                                          When I returned to the tank about 30 minutes later all but a few of the
                                                                                                          brines were gone and the phantoms were spread out over the tank looking
                                                                                                          pretty sedate.

                                                                                                          I'd love to have feedback on this little interaction between these two fish.

                                                                                                          It was a really neat experience.

                                                                                                          Tony
                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1359 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 148
                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                            I'm sorry Julie, I don't know what you are referring to. The attached
                                                                                                            messages are about a co2 reactor and water conditions, is it these
                                                                                                            issues that you're commenting on?

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1360 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: newbie and apology
                                                                                                            Now that I've read the next post, disregard my last...

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1361 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: plant question
                                                                                                            Any chance of seeing a picture? What kind of nutrients do you add?

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1362 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: cleaning tank
                                                                                                            Iodine in salt is not the problem, the anti-caking agent in table salt
                                                                                                            is. It's a mild blood thinner and adding it to a new tank when fish
                                                                                                            will be stressed is a bad idea. Aquarium salt for freshwater fish,
                                                                                                            canning or kosher salt are your best options. Recently bought a 4 lbs
                                                                                                            box of canning for $1.39 at a local grocery store.

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1363 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: more new fish?
                                                                                                            Rule of thumb, always have your water tested before adding new fish.
                                                                                                            Remember that the bacteria count has to rise with each new fish
                                                                                                            addition, and that can take time. However, Tony, you only added a small
                                                                                                            amount of bioload, so I don't imagine adding more small fish would
                                                                                                            affect your tank. Just always be prudent when introducing more fish.
                                                                                                            Just a little advice from someone whose made many mistakes in 36 years.

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1364 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Another issue
                                                                                                            Gourami's are labyrinth fish and share many of the betta's qualities,
                                                                                                            including aggression, although not normally life threatening. It seams
                                                                                                            the larger they get, like pink kissers, the more aggressive. It's been
                                                                                                            my experience that only the dwarfs stay pretty mellow, with of course,
                                                                                                            exceptions.....

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1365 From: Rob Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: hi there !
                                                                                                            hi there !

                                                                                                            Just joined the group and wanted to say "hello". My name is Rob, and
                                                                                                            I live in San Diego. I recently got back in to the hobby after a
                                                                                                            hiatus of sevral years and am pleased to say that I have a thriving
                                                                                                            60 gallon freshwater setup with a well balanced community of semi-
                                                                                                            aggressive species (tiger barbs, dwarf cichlids, gouramis, catfish,
                                                                                                            etc...)

                                                                                                            I will gladly offer my advice and experience in any matters that I
                                                                                                            can help with, but this first post is indeed a question.

                                                                                                            I have been looking for some additional driftwoodpieces for my tank.
                                                                                                            I currently have two nice pieces, but I am looking for something
                                                                                                            thin and branchy. My LFS only seem to carry thicker, squatter
                                                                                                            pieces.

                                                                                                            I know that using pieces intended for reptile set-ups is generally
                                                                                                            taboo, but are there any exceptions to this rule or ways around it?
                                                                                                            I also don't feel like taking my chance with localy obtained wood
                                                                                                            but if anyone can offer a safe suggestion I would be very interested
                                                                                                            to hear it.

                                                                                                            I have also seen some pics recently of people with dried bamboo in
                                                                                                            their tank and I really like the look of it. Is this safe ?

                                                                                                            Thanks in advance for any help !

                                                                                                            ::: rob
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1366 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Black Ghost Question PLEASE RESPOND
                                                                                                            Did you take temperatures before and during the introduction of the heater?
                                                                                                            Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                            > OK my black ghost is 10" long, the last couple of days he/she has
                                                                                                            > been pretty slow and life less. Normally on the go most of the
                                                                                                            > time.The only new addition to the tank is a heater.As I live in
                                                                                                            > Australia there is no need for one during summer.(have to cool water
                                                                                                            > down some times) All 5 tanks at the moment 6.39pm, the temps are 28
                                                                                                            > degrees. I have had this fish for 2 years now ,with no heater. But
                                                                                                            > decided to buy heaters for 2 of my tanks.The 4ft community tank has
                                                                                                            > always had one but never really see it on.Could this be the problem
                                                                                                            > or is it something else.Other fish in the ghost's tank are,sailfin
                                                                                                            > pleco, 5 black widows and 3 long golden sucker fish or algae eaters.
                                                                                                            > He is either lying close to the bottom in his tube or straight up and
                                                                                                            > down like its sniffing the top of the water.4 days after the heater
                                                                                                            > went in, bailed out nearly half of the water and did a gravel syphen.
                                                                                                            > Whats up with this fish, please help.
                                                                                                            > Cheers George :)
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1367 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hi there !
                                                                                                            Hey Rob. I've got no experience using the bamboo, however, the use of
                                                                                                            reptile wood is absolutely safe. Reptiles can be very chemical
                                                                                                            sensitive and as such, all these products are chemical free. Grapewood
                                                                                                            is what your are probably refering to. Also look into manzanita wood,
                                                                                                            either sandblasted or not. They are normally used for birds and once
                                                                                                            again, have to be chemical free. A nice sized branch turned upsidedown
                                                                                                            gives a quality root effect.

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1368 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hi there !
                                                                                                            Try this link to see one of the manzanitas
                                                                                                            HTTP://www.birdsupplies.com/INDEX.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=28

                                                                                                            I hope this is it.

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1369 From: klooster8 Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Black Ghost
                                                                                                            Does any body know anything on these fish or not.If so please respond
                                                                                                            to black ghost PLEASE HELP.Before it is to late would be appreciated.
                                                                                                            Cheers George
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1370 From: mtm6583 Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Hello
                                                                                                            Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and have already posted a couple
                                                                                                            of messages a few days ago. I realized I should have introduced
                                                                                                            myself first...duh. My name is Mike and I live in the California High
                                                                                                            Desert. I have a 30g tall tank with an UGF, which I've had for ten
                                                                                                            years. About a year ago I inroduced plants to my tank(I know this is
                                                                                                            not supposed to work well with the UGF)and they have done great. I've
                                                                                                            added a 130W CF and pop bottle CO2 in the last three months and the
                                                                                                            plants have just exploded! I think I've had good luck with the plants
                                                                                                            because of my old,well established substrate. As far as fish go,I
                                                                                                            have Barbs: tiger,rosy and cherry. Rainbows: Boesmani and Dwarf neon.
                                                                                                            Algae Eaters: Siamese and Golden. Kribb's: Pelvicachromis Pulcher(the
                                                                                                            only scientific name I've memorized)and Nerite snails. I think this
                                                                                                            group is just wonderful and have learned alot from you all. I'm glad
                                                                                                            to be aboard! thanks, Mike
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1371 From: Rob Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hi there !
                                                                                                            hey thanks! this is exactly what I have been looking for. I'll have
                                                                                                            to pick some of this up and see how it looks in the tank. I imagine
                                                                                                            I should follow the usual soaking methods ?



                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                            bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                            > Try this link to see one of the manzanitas
                                                                                                            > HTTP://www.birdsupplies.com/INDEX.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=28
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > I hope this is it.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1372 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Black Ghost Question PLEASE RESPOND
                                                                                                            well if you think the heater is the problem why not take it out. I am not sure what the problem with the fish is, ghost knives are known to lie around part of the time.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                They are also sensitive to electromagentism, maybe the heater is leaking small amounts of electricty into the tank or maybe he thinks its the biggest knife fish he has ever seen because of the magnetic field the heater creates even if there is no leackage. .  Maybe he will come out once he feels safe.
                                                                                                             
                                                                                                            Andreas
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1373 From: nikasmomma2001 Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            We are thinking about getting an aquarium to be a source of
                                                                                                            stimulation for our special needs child. I'm looking for advice. We
                                                                                                            don't know a lot about this topic. The guy at Pet Smart said gold
                                                                                                            fish would be the best way to go, because they tend to live longest.
                                                                                                            Is that correct? Are there other types of fish that are good for the
                                                                                                            novice aquarium owner? What kind of aquarium, filter, etc. should we
                                                                                                            get? Any advice you could give would be appreciated.
                                                                                                            Thanks!---Nicole
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1374 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            if i were you, i'd skip the goldfish. you can really only have a few in
                                                                                                            anything but a huge tank, and while they do live a long time, they're
                                                                                                            not as entertaining or eye catching as something like a tank full of
                                                                                                            tetras or plattys might be.
                                                                                                            plattys are very hardy and colorful and since they're live bearers,
                                                                                                            children get a chance to watch the baby fish and always seem to like
                                                                                                            that.
                                                                                                            i'd go for a simple 20 gallon set up (very small tanks need more care,
                                                                                                            and a 20 isn't all that large, it's a good starting size.) an internal
                                                                                                            heater, and a filter with a biowheel will require very little
                                                                                                            maintenance and will keep the fish and your child very happy :)
                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                            On Mar 18, 2004, at 10:17 PM, nikasmomma2001 wrote:

                                                                                                            > We are thinking about getting an aquarium to be a source of
                                                                                                            > stimulation for our special needs child.  I'm looking for advice.  We
                                                                                                            > don't know a lot about this topic.  The guy at Pet Smart said gold
                                                                                                            > fish would be the best way to go, because they tend to live longest.
                                                                                                            > Is that correct?  Are there other types of fish that are good for the
                                                                                                            > novice aquarium owner?  What kind of aquarium, filter, etc. should we
                                                                                                            > get?  Any advice you could give would be appreciated.
                                                                                                            > Thanks!---Nicole
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                            > Service.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                            for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                            religion....
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1375 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/18/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: DIY Killer?
                                                                                                            Ok, since noone commented on my loss of 7 bala sharks I now have lost another fish.  It's my Sydontis Europtis (don't know the other name for it).  I took out my Co2 bottles for a few days after I lost my last bala shark.  I also transfered my tiger barbs and gourmi's to separate tanks.  I left my europtis and 2 pangus catfish in my main tank.  Today, after I tested for ammonia, nitrite and ph (all were perfect) I added my Co2 back in and left for a few hours.  I just came back home to find him gone as well.  Could it be the DIY Co2?  I'm using 2-3 liter pop bottles with 1 cup sugar and 1tsp Fleischmann's "Active Dry" Yeast.  There are alot of very small bubbles on the airline.  My setup is an airline running into my tank and the bubbles are held down with a DIY Co2 Bell.  I have a similar setup for Co2 in my bedroom using a 2 liter bottle that houses my gourmi's at the time and they are doing just fine for now.  What can it be?  I really need some desparate help here.  I think if my catfish leave me, I'm shutting down and maybe giving up.  I've lost to many fish way to fast and I can't seem to get any help or any precise answer as to what is going on.  If anyone need pictures of what I'm talking about, let m know and I'll snap a few and sent them out.  Need HELP please.

                                                                                                            Edward
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1376 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: DIY Killer?

                                                                                                            Edward,

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Sorry could not be of much help in your case as I have no clue. But if it could be any chemical in the water or the DIY yeast mixture, you should filter your water thru activated carbon ASAP. Let the carbon remain for a couple of weeks and this will in the first couple of days remove most of this gunk.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            But it probably seems like some long term poisoning. Beyond that, I am clueless.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                             


                                                                                                            From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                            Sent: 19 March 2004 03:44
                                                                                                            To: Freshwater TropicalFish
                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] DIY Killer?

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Ok, since noone commented on my loss of 7 bala sharks I now have lost another fish.  It's my Sydontis Europtis (don't know the other name for it).  I took out my Co2 bottles for a few days after I lost my last bala shark.  I also transfered my tiger barbs and gourmi's to separate tanks.  I left my europtis and 2 pangus catfish in my main tank.  Today, after I tested for ammonia, nitrite and ph (all were perfect) I added my Co2 back in and left for a few hours.  I just came back home to find him gone as well.  Could it be the DIY Co2?  I'm using 2-3 liter pop bottles with 1 cup sugar and 1tsp Fleischmann's "Active Dry" Yeast.  There are alot of very small bubbles on the airline.  My setup is an airline running into my tank and the bubbles are held down with a DIY Co2 Bell.  I have a similar setup for Co2 in my bedroom using a 2 liter bottle that houses my gourmi's at the time and they are doing just fine for now.  What can it be?  I really need some desparate help here.  I think if my catfish leave me, I'm shutting down and maybe giving up.  I've lost to many fish way to fast and I can't seem to get any help or any precise answer as to what is going on.  If anyone need pictures of what I'm talking about, let m know and I'll snap a few and sent them out.  Need HELP please.

                                                                                                            Edward



                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1377 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            Nicole,

                                                                                                            The guy at Petsmart did mean what he said. Goldfish are the hardiest of all
                                                                                                            fish I have seen and will help you cycle the tank initially atleast. I know
                                                                                                            that children with special needs tend to get excited when they see fish
                                                                                                            babies, when you re feeding the fish, and strangely enough, with
                                                                                                            Oddballs????(don't ask me why).My sister is a challenged child and she
                                                                                                            seemed to have gotten a very good relationship with a Clown Knife fish I
                                                                                                            had, so did her friends.

                                                                                                            Apart from this, you will need a bigger tank to avoid too much maintainance.
                                                                                                            A larger tank is much more stable and can do with little maintenance. It
                                                                                                            would be good to have live plants as they also tend to help.

                                                                                                            Start with a couple of goldfish for a month or 2(telling the children that
                                                                                                            they have to go back). And after 2 months, return the goldfish and get other
                                                                                                            colorful fish and ones that remain more active instead. In Livebearers I
                                                                                                            suggest Mollies and Swordtails. Most peacefull and most prolific of the lot.
                                                                                                            Guppies with long tails tend to get nipped, and platies can sometimes show
                                                                                                            exceptional aggression. If you do get livebearers then don't get any fish
                                                                                                            that may eat their fry. You can keep most surface dwellers with livebearers,
                                                                                                            small tetras (neon, cardinals), bottom dwellers (corydoras, plecs) etc.

                                                                                                            The group here can advise you of everything what you need to do. You just
                                                                                                            have to make a decision as to what size of tank you want and what fish you
                                                                                                            want to keep.

                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                            >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                            >From: nikasmomma2001 [mailto:nikasmomma2001@...]
                                                                                                            >Sent: 19 March 2004 03:17
                                                                                                            >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >We are thinking about getting an aquarium to be a source of
                                                                                                            >stimulation for our special needs child. I'm looking for advice. We
                                                                                                            >don't know a lot about this topic. The guy at Pet Smart said gold
                                                                                                            >fish would be the best way to go, because they tend to live longest.
                                                                                                            >Is that correct? Are there other types of fish that are good for the
                                                                                                            >novice aquarium owner? What kind of aquarium, filter, etc. should we
                                                                                                            >get? Any advice you could give would be appreciated.
                                                                                                            >Thanks!---Nicole
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1378 From: stryker lighting Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: new to the group
                                                                                                            hello everyone i am also new to the group, i am currently in iraq, due to the infantry(army)
                                                                                                            i am into :discus, killies, angelfish, cilchilds, fancey tail guppies and getting into saltwater fish. i am interested in trading or buying any of the fish above except saltwater (in the  learning stage). i am still learing everyday about these fish i have named tho. when i return if anyone is interested in trading or selling let me know but for now i will take any know how of the fish listed and anyother info you have to share thank you
                                                                                                            Jeff

                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                            Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam

                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1379 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: DIY Killer?
                                                                                                            Hi Edward,

                                                                                                            Sorry to hear about your loss. I have never used Co2, but assume
                                                                                                            there is a point where there could be too much. Is it possible to
                                                                                                            have to much Co2 and not enough O2 (Oxygen)? I have planted tanks
                                                                                                            without Co2 added. Does the Co2 affect pH? I mean can it cause it to
                                                                                                            change rapidly before stabilizing back to normal?
                                                                                                            I have not yet read your original post, so I apologize if you already
                                                                                                            answered these questions. How old & what size were the bala sharks?
                                                                                                            I'm still new to all this myself and was interseted in trying the Co2
                                                                                                            for my 5 planted tanks, but not if kills fish.
                                                                                                            Have you posted this question to other groups? I hope you are able to
                                                                                                            discover the cause and stay in the hobby, it is supposed to be
                                                                                                            relaxing & therapeutic, just not when they die for unknown reasons.
                                                                                                            I'm sure somebody out there has had similar experiences, there are
                                                                                                            many professional aquarists and long time hobbists in this group and
                                                                                                            in the other top 3 groups as well.

                                                                                                            http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria
                                                                                                            http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub
                                                                                                            http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/freshwateraquariums

                                                                                                            Please try the resources in the links section too.



                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Sola"
                                                                                                            <esola@k...> wrote:
                                                                                                            > Ok, since noone commented on my loss of 7 bala sharks I now have
                                                                                                            lost another fish. It's my Sydontis Europtis (don't know the other
                                                                                                            name for it). I took out my Co2 bottles for a few days after I lost
                                                                                                            my last bala shark. I also transfered my tiger barbs and gourmi's to
                                                                                                            separate tanks. I left my europtis and 2 pangus catfish in my main
                                                                                                            tank. Today, after I tested for ammonia, nitrite and ph (all were
                                                                                                            perfect) I added my Co2 back in and left for a few hours. I just
                                                                                                            came back home to find him gone as well. Could it be the DIY Co2?
                                                                                                            I'm using 2-3 liter pop bottles with 1 cup sugar and 1tsp
                                                                                                            Fleischmann's "Active Dry" Yeast. There are alot of very small
                                                                                                            bubbles on the airline. My setup is an airline running into my tank
                                                                                                            and the bubbles are held down with a DIY Co2 Bell. I have a similar
                                                                                                            setup for Co2 in my bedroom using a 2 liter bottle that houses my
                                                                                                            gourmi's at the time and they are doing just fine for now. What can
                                                                                                            it be? I really need some desparate help here. I think if my
                                                                                                            catfish leave me, I'm shutting down and maybe giving up. I've lost
                                                                                                            to many fish way to fast and I can't seem to get any help or any
                                                                                                            precise answer as to what is going on. If anyone need pictures of
                                                                                                            what I'm talking about, let m know and I'll snap a few and sent them
                                                                                                            out. Need HELP please.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Edward
                                                                                                            > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1380 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: DIY Killer?
                                                                                                            Possil .... keyoard acting up... film o surface? co2 overwhelming
                                                                                                            fish,o2 can' get in. try surface skimmer licenced to hagen, hooks up to
                                                                                                            most filters doesn't use electricity. atteries dieing on ths keyboard,
                                                                                                            write more later

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1381 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Black Ghost
                                                                                                            The symptoms you quote also sound like the stress associated with
                                                                                                            harrassment. What type of algae eaters did you say you had? If t
                                                                                                            heyare,,,,, more keyboard troubles. golden ae's? they harrass
                                                                                                            sedintary fish just like chinese ae's do (same species, slective
                                                                                                            breeding and all that).

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1382 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hi there !
                                                                                                            I'll try adding a piece to one of the tanks at the store today and see
                                                                                                            what happens. because they are safe for birds, a quick sanitation
                                                                                                            should be all they need. (Now this keyboard is acting fine, go figure.)
                                                                                                            They are a heavier wood, I would think they'd sink after a brief
                                                                                                            soaking. Also, look into the sandblasted ones. I've never encountered
                                                                                                            the branchy stuff sanded, but maybe they're out there. Those look more
                                                                                                            root like when wet, I use the perches for many of the birds and put up
                                                                                                            with a lot of abuse, poop, claws and beaks.

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1383 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            Don't get all your advise from a PetsMart type store. Many of the staff
                                                                                                            at most are great, but they sometimes have, um, less than trained
                                                                                                            personnel. I worked at one for 7 years and after they started hiring
                                                                                                            new people without any kind of training, like when I first started
                                                                                                            there, then setting them loose on the unsuspecting customers, I knew it
                                                                                                            was time to leave. Anyhow, buy a good book, with a recent copyright.
                                                                                                            One book I've always felt comfortable with suggesting is "The Complete
                                                                                                            Idiots Guide to Freshwater Aquariums". Don't confuse this with
                                                                                                            "Aquariums for Dummies". The latter is more technical and is geared
                                                                                                            towards fresh and marine. If you know someone with an aquarium, it'll
                                                                                                            be helpful if you can borrow some of their dirty filter material to help
                                                                                                            colonize your biological filtration bed. Remember, a clean tank is a
                                                                                                            bad tank. As suggested, goldfish might not be your best choice. I have
                                                                                                            a friend with a 20 gallon and 40 or so neon and cardinal tetras, quite
                                                                                                            impressive. He cycled the tank with 6 zebra danios for 2 months,
                                                                                                            actually the tank was cycled in about a week. He had the same filter
                                                                                                            that I was using on one of my tanks, a Penguin 1125 and we just swapped
                                                                                                            bio-wheels and filter pads. My tank was lightly stocked and very mature
                                                                                                            at that point. Then he took the danios back to the store, and started
                                                                                                            adding the tetras, 6 at a time, 3 weeks apart. He also added a clown
                                                                                                            pleco and 6, maybe 8 otocinclus. My point being, all those tetras look
                                                                                                            a heck of a lot more impressive than 2 or 3 goldfish and they'll never
                                                                                                            outgrow his tank.

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1384 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            Ummmm, 2 corrections. PetsMart USED to train the staff, that's how you
                                                                                                            got raises! Also, it was a Penguin 125, not 1125. I point this out for
                                                                                                            the newbies who might go looking for a 1125 :-)

                                                                                                            Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1385 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            I agree. I also used to work for them a while back and I found great fun in
                                                                                                            taking all those little test for every department. Not only did it boost my
                                                                                                            customer service skills, but allowed me know learn more about a particular
                                                                                                            type of animal more indepth. I guess I'm very luck that my PM store has a
                                                                                                            very reputable associate (Heather) who has taken many classes on the biology
                                                                                                            of fish.

                                                                                                            Edward
                                                                                                            http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                            From: <bucks_boogie@...>
                                                                                                            To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:10 AM
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Advice for a novice?


                                                                                                            > Ummmm, 2 corrections. PetsMart USED to train the staff, that's how you
                                                                                                            > got raises! Also, it was a Penguin 125, not 1125. I point this out for
                                                                                                            > the newbies who might go looking for a 1125 :-)
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1386 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: DIY Killer?
                                                                                                            it is possible to have too much co2. the more co2 you have, the fewer
                                                                                                            fish you can have in the tank. co2 is great for plants, but not good
                                                                                                            for fish. unless your main focus is the plants, you really can get away
                                                                                                            without it. having a well stocked tank provides enough for the majority
                                                                                                            of freshwater plants.
                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                            On Mar 19, 2004, at 6:59 AM, Aaron R. Martin, cmt wrote:

                                                                                                            > Hi Edward,
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Sorry to hear about your loss. I have never used Co2, but assume
                                                                                                            > there is a point where there could be too much. Is it possible to
                                                                                                            > have to much Co2 and not enough O2 (Oxygen)? I have planted tanks
                                                                                                            > without Co2 added. Does the Co2 affect pH? I mean can it cause it to
                                                                                                            > change rapidly before stabilizing back to normal?
                                                                                                            > I have not yet read your original post, so I apologize if you already
                                                                                                            > answered these questions. How old & what size were the bala sharks?
                                                                                                            > I'm still new to all this myself and was interseted in trying the Co2
                                                                                                            > for my 5 planted tanks, but not if kills fish.
                                                                                                            > Have you posted this question to other groups? I hope you are able to
                                                                                                            > discover the cause and stay in the hobby, it is supposed to be
                                                                                                            > relaxing & therapeutic, just not when they die for unknown reasons.
                                                                                                            > I'm sure somebody out there has had similar experiences, there are
                                                                                                            > many professional aquarists and long time hobbists in this group and
                                                                                                            > in the other top 3 groups as well.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria
                                                                                                            > http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub
                                                                                                            > http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/freshwateraquariums
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Please try the resources in the links section too.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Sola"
                                                                                                            > <esola@k...> wrote:
                                                                                                            > > Ok, since noone commented on my loss of 7 bala sharks I now have
                                                                                                            > lost another fish.  It's my Sydontis Europtis (don't know the other
                                                                                                            > name for it).  I took out my Co2 bottles for a few days after I lost
                                                                                                            > my last bala shark.  I also transfered my tiger barbs and gourmi's to
                                                                                                            > separate tanks.  I left my europtis and 2 pangus catfish in my main
                                                                                                            > tank.  Today, after I tested for ammonia, nitrite and ph (all were
                                                                                                            > perfect) I added my Co2 back in and left for a few hours.  I just
                                                                                                            > came back home to find him gone as well.  Could it be the DIY Co2? 
                                                                                                            > I'm using 2-3 liter pop bottles with 1 cup sugar and 1tsp
                                                                                                            > Fleischmann's "Active Dry" Yeast.  There are alot of very small
                                                                                                            > bubbles on the airline.  My setup is an airline running into my tank
                                                                                                            > and the bubbles are held down with a DIY Co2 Bell.  I have a similar
                                                                                                            > setup for Co2 in my bedroom using a 2 liter bottle that houses my
                                                                                                            > gourmi's at the time and they are doing just fine for now.  What can
                                                                                                            > it be?  I really need some desparate help here.  I think if my
                                                                                                            > catfish leave me, I'm shutting down and maybe giving up.  I've lost
                                                                                                            > to many fish way to fast and I can't seem to get any help or any
                                                                                                            > precise answer as to what is going on.  If anyone need pictures of
                                                                                                            > what I'm talking about, let m know and I'll snap a few and sent them
                                                                                                            > out.  Need HELP please.
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > Edward
                                                                                                            > > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                            > Service.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >


                                                                                                            http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                            don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1387 From: magnolia_busse Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: New Member
                                                                                                            I just wanted to say hi real fast. I'm 19, living most of the time
                                                                                                            in socal.. Freshwater has just become a pretty recent hobby for me,
                                                                                                            I had grown up with saltwater all my life, but I thought I needed a
                                                                                                            change while out on my own. I have a far more experienced friend
                                                                                                            helping me here locally. I currently just have a few gourami's,
                                                                                                            catfish, and a beta who keeps me company while working.

                                                                                                            So, I'll be seeing you around, and I'll try not to bombard you guys
                                                                                                            with stupid questions ;)

                                                                                                            -magnolia
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1388 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            I have nine platies, 3M/6F, and have never found them to be agresssive at
                                                                                                            all. They are very hard, have great fun personalities, are not picky eaters,
                                                                                                            and have gotten along with all their tankmates. Platies, guppies, and
                                                                                                            swordtails will all eat their own fry. The best way I've found to avoid
                                                                                                            that-other than a breeding trap-is to have lots of floating plants and be
                                                                                                            quick with the net :)


                                                                                                            Theresa


                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                            From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                                                                                                            To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 3:49 AM
                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Advice for a novice?


                                                                                                            > and platies can sometimes show
                                                                                                            > exceptional aggression. If you do get livebearers then don't get any fish
                                                                                                            > that may eat their fry. You can keep most surface dwellers with
                                                                                                            livebearers,
                                                                                                            > small tetras (neon, cardinals), bottom dwellers (corydoras, plecs) etc.
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1389 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            The PetSmart in this area, (Harrisburg, PA), is large, but as for variety in fish supplies, the Mom and Pop stores that went out of business after PetSmart came in (don't know if it was a cause and effect coincidence) had a greater variety of fish/health/supplies. Seems to me their approach is a market phenomenon. If people don't buy anything but aquariums, gravel and some filters and fish, that's all they'll sell. If you want something for a sick fish, if you can order it, the fish'l be dead by the time it arrives. But if people have nothing but healthy fish, there's nothing to buy. If fish die, you buy more fish. But it could be, every time I went in there, they were out of stock. I would'nt buy plants there, if I could help it, 'cause they carried pond-snails that caused too many problems. ('tho it was'nt the snails fault)
                                                                                                            Joe P.

                                                                                                            > I agree. I also used to work for them a while back and I found great fun in
                                                                                                            > taking all those little test for every department. Not only did it boost my
                                                                                                            > customer service skills, but allowed me know learn more about a particular
                                                                                                            > type of animal more indepth. I guess I'm very luck that my PM store has a
                                                                                                            > very reputable associate (Heather) who has taken many classes on the biology
                                                                                                            > of fish.
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Edward
                                                                                                            > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                            > From: <bucks_boogie@...>
                                                                                                            > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                            > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:10 AM
                                                                                                            > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > > Ummmm, 2 corrections. PetsMart USED to train the staff, that's how you
                                                                                                            > > got raises! Also, it was a Penguin 125, not 1125. I point this out for
                                                                                                            > > the newbies who might go looking for a 1125 :-)
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1390 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                            Subject: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                              Hey all, well after a dissappointing week with my loss of fish I noticed something on my plants today.  I have a sprout comming from a sword plant and it's creating micro bubbles from the shoot itself.  What is this?  I have a picture of it that kinda describes it a little better.  Let me know ya'll!

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1391 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1392 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              It was attached, I guess the moderator removed it. It'll be on my site in a
                                                                                                              few minutes. Thank you.

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:12 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?


                                                                                                              > Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1393 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              Ok, they're up and runnin!

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: "Edward Sola" <esola@...>
                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:53 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?


                                                                                                              > It was attached, I guess the moderator removed it. It'll be on my site in
                                                                                                              a
                                                                                                              > few minutes. Thank you.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Edward
                                                                                                              > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:12 PM
                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > > Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                              > > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1394 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              They do not seem to be Oxygen bubbles. Could be gasses released due to
                                                                                                              anaerobic conditions inside the gravel or yeast effect.


                                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              >From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                              >Sent: 20 March 2004 01:54
                                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >It was attached, I guess the moderator removed it. It'll be on my site in
                                                                                                              >a
                                                                                                              >few minutes. Thank you.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >Edward
                                                                                                              >http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              >From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                              >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:12 PM
                                                                                                              >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >> Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                              >> Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1395 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              it looks like your plant is sending out runners. that's really cool!.
                                                                                                              you can either clip them and plant them somewhere else, or just bury
                                                                                                              the horizontal piece and each tuft will become another plant...
                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                              On Mar 19, 2004, at 8:04 PM, Edward Sola wrote:

                                                                                                              > Hey all, well after a dissappointing week with my loss of fish I
                                                                                                              > noticed something on my plants today.  I have a sprout comming from a
                                                                                                              > sword plant and it's creating micro bubbles from the shoot itself. 
                                                                                                              > What is this?  I have a picture of it that kinda describes it a little
                                                                                                              > better.  Let me know ya'll!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Edward
                                                                                                              > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
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                                                                                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1396 From: Lesley Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              I had a picture attached to the email I received.
                                                                                                              Lesley in NV
                                                                                                               


                                                                                                              j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                 Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                                                            Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                              Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                              Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam

                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1397 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              Well so far it doesn't seem to be effecting my gourmi's that are in that
                                                                                                              particular tank. I did notice in my 80gal that one of my catfish's eyes are
                                                                                                              all cloudy. Is this gas and what can be done to treat it?

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:22 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?


                                                                                                              > They do not seem to be Oxygen bubbles. Could be gasses released due to
                                                                                                              > anaerobic conditions inside the gravel or yeast effect.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              > >From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                              > >Sent: 20 March 2004 01:54
                                                                                                              > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >It was attached, I guess the moderator removed it. It'll be on my site
                                                                                                              in
                                                                                                              > >a
                                                                                                              > >few minutes. Thank you.
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >Edward
                                                                                                              > >http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > >From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                              > >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:12 PM
                                                                                                              > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >> Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                              > >> Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > >>
                                                                                                              > >>
                                                                                                              > >>
                                                                                                              > >>
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                                                                                                              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1398 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              Edward,
                                                                                                              My only experience with bubbles on plants and in an aquarium were when I set up a new tank, and when I used a product called 'Oxygenator', that used a concentrated hydrogen-peroxide. The peroxide was placed in a plastic bottle, with a screw-on top, in the center of which was a pin-point hole. The bottle was inverted and placed into an unglazed baked-clay cup, which had a hollow, close-walled construction. The bottle was held in place by an 'applied at the factory' silicone-gel, that fit snugly around the cap. Opposite the bottle-cap was a hole in the ceramic, through which oxygen was released, into the ceramic, then into the water. The oxygen release occured in the bottle through the action of a special ceramic catalyst, which was placed in the bottle before introducing into the cup and aquarium. The extra oxygen was supposed to cause oxygen bubbles for the purpose of keeping the aquarium clean.
                                                                                                              Since I believe it was you who indicated you were introducing CO2 into the aquarium for plant health, that's the only source I can think of regarding the bubbles. I'm wondering if a new plant-shoot can be the target of the waters natural chemistry as a focus of greater gas attraction? Considering the appearance of the photos you just added, what seem to be bubbles also seems to me to be pond-snail eggs.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > Ok, they're up and runnin!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Edward
                                                                                                              > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > From: "Edward Sola" <esola@...>
                                                                                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:53 PM
                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > > It was attached, I guess the moderator removed it. It'll be on my site in
                                                                                                              > a
                                                                                                              > > few minutes. Thank you.
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Edward
                                                                                                              > > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > > From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                              > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:12 PM
                                                                                                              > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > > Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                              > > > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
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                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
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                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1399 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              My guess from what I've recently read
                                                                                                              online during a couple GOOGLE searches, is;
                                                                                                              The GOURAMIS' survived because they're anabatids.
                                                                                                              The other fish died because they suffocated due to excess carbon-
                                                                                                              dioxide, and the fish with the cloudy eyes is suffering from stress
                                                                                                              due to oxygen-deprivation/carbon-dioxide excess. The cloudy eyes due
                                                                                                              too stress, generating physical weakness etc., allowing the organisms
                                                                                                              to develope that're clouding the fish's eye/s.
                                                                                                              Carbon-dioxide and oxygen in water is a very complex topic, and I
                                                                                                              accidented upon this government site associated with the topic in
                                                                                                              general, in fish.

                                                                                                              http://www.lsc.usgs.gov/fhb/workshops/26/a53.htm

                                                                                                              Just a thought. If you don't know what could cause
                                                                                                              cloudy eyes, I suggest finding several good books on fish keeping,
                                                                                                              and learn to use search terms on the net. GOOGLE can be a wealth of
                                                                                                              sources. Someone/s on the list can suggest current books on fish
                                                                                                              keeping, mine are over ten years old.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage




                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Sola"
                                                                                                              <esola@k...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > Well so far it doesn't seem to be effecting my gourmi's that are in
                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                              > particular tank. I did notice in my 80gal that one of my catfish's
                                                                                                              eyes are
                                                                                                              > all cloudy. Is this gas and what can be done to treat it?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Edward
                                                                                                              > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:22 PM
                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on
                                                                                                              plants?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > > They do not seem to be Oxygen bubbles. Could be gasses released
                                                                                                              due to
                                                                                                              > > anaerobic conditions inside the gravel or yeast effect.
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              > > >From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@k...]
                                                                                                              > > >Sent: 20 March 2004 01:54
                                                                                                              > > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on
                                                                                                              plants?
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >It was attached, I guess the moderator removed it. It'll be on
                                                                                                              my site
                                                                                                              > in
                                                                                                              > > >a
                                                                                                              > > >few minutes. Thank you.
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >Edward
                                                                                                              > > >http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > > >From: <j.pascavage@c...>
                                                                                                              > > >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > > >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:12 PM
                                                                                                              > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on
                                                                                                              plants?
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >> Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                              > > >> Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
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                                                                                                              > > >>
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                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
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                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1400 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              Ijust did a quick sear\ on GOOGLE, using the term/s

                                                                                                              carbon-dioxide and fish health

                                                                                                              .....I've related mostly to Corydoras' and Plattys, and am not aquainted
                                                                                                              with other fish, but......
                                                                                                              Are Gouramis' Anabatids? If they are it may be the reason they're doing
                                                                                                              well, since they can breath atmospheric air. The other fish, in what seems
                                                                                                              to be a very lightly planted tank, may not have had the benefit of enough
                                                                                                              oxygen from plants, and an excess carbon-dioxide from your CO2 generator,
                                                                                                              and suffocated.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                              PS
                                                                                                              Looks like your tank is filtered by an under-gravel-filter, so
                                                                                                              the likelihood of anaerobic activity is less likely.
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: "Edward Sola" <esola@...>
                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:46 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?


                                                                                                              > Well so far it doesn't seem to be effecting my gourmi's that are in that
                                                                                                              > particular tank. I did notice in my 80gal that one of my catfish's eyes
                                                                                                              are
                                                                                                              > all cloudy. Is this gas and what can be done to treat it?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Edward
                                                                                                              > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...>
                                                                                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:22 PM
                                                                                                              > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > > They do not seem to be Oxygen bubbles. Could be gasses released due to
                                                                                                              > > anaerobic conditions inside the gravel or yeast effect.
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              > > >From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                              > > >Sent: 20 March 2004 01:54
                                                                                                              > > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >It was attached, I guess the moderator removed it. It'll be on my site
                                                                                                              > in
                                                                                                              > > >a
                                                                                                              > > >few minutes. Thank you.
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >Edward
                                                                                                              > > >http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > > >From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                              > > >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > > >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:12 PM
                                                                                                              > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >> Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                              > > >> Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >>
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
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                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1401 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/19/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Black Ghost
                                                                                                              I myself do not know much about these fish other than they are
                                                                                                              low vision fish so they need lots of places to hide. I do have links
                                                                                                              to two sites that may be quite helpful however. The first is from
                                                                                                              people experiences with them and the second is from a fish expert.

                                                                                                              http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/gaptero.html

                                                                                                              http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?
                                                                                                              siteid=21&pCatId=857

                                                                                                              Hopefully this helps you in some way

                                                                                                              Randy Clark
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1402 From: klooster8 Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Death to Black Ghost
                                                                                                              Thank you for your responses,but alas the black ghost passed away
                                                                                                              this morning, feeling pretty pissed off.,was such a fine speciman.As
                                                                                                              for the algae eaters in the tank,the ghost lived with these for
                                                                                                              nearly the 2 years,kinda growen up together.I really don't know what
                                                                                                              the cause of death was, just happened really sudden.
                                                                                                              But thanks anyway. Cheers George :(
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1403 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              Thank you so much Joseph, I really appreciate your help. I think you hit it
                                                                                                              right on the button about the O2 deprivation. I've noticed on a few
                                                                                                              occasions both catfish swimming towards the surface and taking a quick "dip"
                                                                                                              out of the water. So I think I'll go get me an O2 test today to verify
                                                                                                              this.

                                                                                                              Thank you again!

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: "Joseph Pascavage" <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:21 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: micro bubbles on plants?


                                                                                                              > My guess from what I've recently read
                                                                                                              > online during a couple GOOGLE searches, is;
                                                                                                              > The GOURAMIS' survived because they're anabatids.
                                                                                                              > The other fish died because they suffocated due to excess carbon-
                                                                                                              > dioxide, and the fish with the cloudy eyes is suffering from stress
                                                                                                              > due to oxygen-deprivation/carbon-dioxide excess. The cloudy eyes due
                                                                                                              > too stress, generating physical weakness etc., allowing the organisms
                                                                                                              > to develope that're clouding the fish's eye/s.
                                                                                                              > Carbon-dioxide and oxygen in water is a very complex topic, and I
                                                                                                              > accidented upon this government site associated with the topic in
                                                                                                              > general, in fish.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > http://www.lsc.usgs.gov/fhb/workshops/26/a53.htm
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Just a thought. If you don't know what could cause
                                                                                                              > cloudy eyes, I suggest finding several good books on fish keeping,
                                                                                                              > and learn to use search terms on the net. GOOGLE can be a wealth of
                                                                                                              > sources. Someone/s on the list can suggest current books on fish
                                                                                                              > keeping, mine are over ten years old.
                                                                                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Sola"
                                                                                                              > <esola@k...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > > Well so far it doesn't seem to be effecting my gourmi's that are in
                                                                                                              > that
                                                                                                              > > particular tank. I did notice in my 80gal that one of my catfish's
                                                                                                              > eyes are
                                                                                                              > > all cloudy. Is this gas and what can be done to treat it?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Edward
                                                                                                              > > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > > From: "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                              > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:22 PM
                                                                                                              > > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on
                                                                                                              > plants?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > > They do not seem to be Oxygen bubbles. Could be gasses released
                                                                                                              > due to
                                                                                                              > > > anaerobic conditions inside the gravel or yeast effect.
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              > > > >From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@k...]
                                                                                                              > > > >Sent: 20 March 2004 01:54
                                                                                                              > > > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on
                                                                                                              > plants?
                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >It was attached, I guess the moderator removed it. It'll be on
                                                                                                              > my site
                                                                                                              > > in
                                                                                                              > > > >a
                                                                                                              > > > >few minutes. Thank you.
                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >Edward
                                                                                                              > > > >http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              > > > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > > > >From: <j.pascavage@c...>
                                                                                                              > > > >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              > > > >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:12 PM
                                                                                                              > > > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on
                                                                                                              > plants?
                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >> Where's the picture? It doesn't seem to be on your site.
                                                                                                              > > > >> Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > > > >>
                                                                                                              > > > >>
                                                                                                              > > > >>
                                                                                                              > > > >>
                                                                                                              > > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > > > >>
                                                                                                              > > > >>
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                                                                                                              > > > >>
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                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                              > > > >
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                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1404 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > PS
                                                                                                              > Looks like your tank is filtered by an under-gravel-filter, so
                                                                                                              > the likelihood of anaerobic activity is less likely.


                                                                                                              Well actually it's not. What is anaerobic activity anyway? Good/Bad?
                                                                                                              More/Less?

                                                                                                              Thank you,

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1405 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: fuzzy brown algae?
                                                                                                               Eww ... there are fuzzy brown wisps of something that I guess are algae, and it's growing in the tubes for my undergravel filter system. I have one of those algae scrubber sponges, but it won't fit inside the tubes.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Should I leave the fuzzy wispy brown stuff alone, and see if it works its way through the filter cartridges? Or should I clear it out before it clogs the tubes? I noticed some that was too big to fit through the filter vents the other day, and took the cartridges out so the stuff wouldn't clog it. The stuff floated right out of the tube once the filter cartridges were moved. Then it was floating around the tank for a couple hours until I guess the pleco and the mollies ate it, because it was gone by the next morning.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              It's pretty gross looking, but if it's not going to harm the fish or the functioning of the filters, then I guess I could leave it. Just thought I'd ask for y'all's opinions.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1406 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              Anaerobic bacteria metabolize without oxygen. The nitrogen fixing bacteria that are most often spoken of in reference to eliminating fish waste are aer(oxygen)obic/aerobic, using oxygen. What I know about anaerobic bacteria is, that, they live in areas of the tank that are'nt getting oxygen, and sometimes/always produce hydrogen-sulfide. (which smells like rotten eggs. I don't know enopugh about especially, anaerobic bacteria, so I hope someone on the list can clarify. I know there may be a benefit with some level of anaerobic action, but I don't know what it is.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                              PS
                                                                                                              I saw Undergravel Filter Tubes in the pics in your site, so I'm wondering what they're doing there. Sonds like this is your first tank?

                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > PS
                                                                                                              > > Looks like your tank is filtered by an under-gravel-filter, so
                                                                                                              > > the likelihood of anaerobic activity is less likely.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Well actually it's not. What is anaerobic activity anyway? Good/Bad?
                                                                                                              > More/Less?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Thank you,
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Edward
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1407 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              Ohh, those were older pictures of when my tank was first setup about 3months
                                                                                                              ago. I have since removed them and added an Eheim canister filter. This is
                                                                                                              actually the second time I've set this tank up. The first time was about 2
                                                                                                              years ago when I had Oscars in it. It sat in my sisters garage for about 7
                                                                                                              months empty while I was moving. Had a hell of a time getting all the
                                                                                                              crustations off. Now I'm just having one problem after another in it. I
                                                                                                              actually have 3 tanks. An 80gal and 2-20gal. The 80 is only housing my
                                                                                                              catfish right now. The recent pictures of the bubbles were in my 2-20gal.
                                                                                                              One tank has 4 starter goldfish and 5 Tiger barbs (which were a transfer
                                                                                                              from the 80) and the other tank houses my 2 gourmi's which were also a
                                                                                                              transfer. I'm off to the LFS now to get some more tests and answers.
                                                                                                              You've been a great help. Thank you!

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 12:08 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?


                                                                                                              > Anaerobic bacteria metabolize without oxygen. The nitrogen fixing
                                                                                                              bacteria that are most often spoken of in reference to eliminating fish
                                                                                                              waste are aer(oxygen)obic/aerobic, using oxygen. What I know about anaerobic
                                                                                                              bacteria is, that, they live in areas of the tank that are'nt getting
                                                                                                              oxygen, and sometimes/always produce hydrogen-sulfide. (which smells like
                                                                                                              rotten eggs. I don't know enopugh about especially, anaerobic bacteria, so I
                                                                                                              hope someone on the list can clarify. I know there may be a benefit with
                                                                                                              some level of anaerobic action, but I don't know what it is.
                                                                                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > PS
                                                                                                              > I saw Undergravel Filter Tubes in the pics in
                                                                                                              your site, so I'm wondering what they're doing there. Sonds like this is
                                                                                                              your first tank?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                              > > > PS
                                                                                                              > > > Looks like your tank is filtered by an
                                                                                                              under-gravel-filter, so
                                                                                                              > > > the likelihood of anaerobic activity is less likely.
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Well actually it's not. What is anaerobic activity anyway? Good/Bad?
                                                                                                              > > More/Less?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Thank you,
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Edward
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1408 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              Here's a link to a description of good and not so good bacteria/levels in
                                                                                                              an aquarium
                                                                                                              http://www.geocities.com/josh_shilling/bacteria.html

                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: "Edward Sola" <esola@...>
                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 12:35 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] micro bubbles on plants?


                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > PS
                                                                                                              > > Looks like your tank is filtered by an under-gravel-filter,
                                                                                                              so
                                                                                                              > > the likelihood of anaerobic activity is less likely.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Well actually it's not. What is anaerobic activity anyway? Good/Bad?
                                                                                                              > More/Less?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Thank you,
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Edward
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1409 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Test results are in
                                                                                                              Ok, I did a complete testing of all my tanks plus a control test.  Here's what I've come up with.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Control:
                                                                                                              Ph - 8.0
                                                                                                              Nitrite - 0
                                                                                                              Ammonia - .5 - 1.0
                                                                                                              KH - 3*
                                                                                                              Co2 - .9ppm
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              80 Gal Main Tank
                                                                                                              Fish: 2 pangus catfish one of which is suffering from gas (eyes cloudy and pulging)
                                                                                                              Co2 setup: 1 - 3 liter DYI diffusing in a hommade Co2 bell (picture on website)
                                                                                                              Ph - 7.2
                                                                                                              Nitrite - .5
                                                                                                              Ammonia - 0
                                                                                                              KH - 5*
                                                                                                              Co2 - 9.3ppm
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              20 Gal Bedroom Tank #1
                                                                                                              Fish:  4 starter goldfish one one of which it looks like it is "peeling" its skin off
                                                                                                                       5 Tiger barbs that were a transfer from my 80gal
                                                                                                              Co2 setup: None
                                                                                                              Ph - 7.2
                                                                                                              Nitrite - 1.0
                                                                                                              Ammonia - 2.0 (due to excess fish?)
                                                                                                              KH - 4*
                                                                                                              Co2 - 7.5ppm
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              20 Gal Bedrrom Tank #2
                                                                                                              Fish: 2 Peal Gourmi's (one male, one female?)
                                                                                                              Co2 setup: 1 - 2 liter DYI diffusing in a hommade Co2 bell (picture on website)
                                                                                                              Ph - 6.8
                                                                                                              Nitrate - 1.0
                                                                                                              Ammonia - .5 - 1.0
                                                                                                              KH - 4*
                                                                                                              Co2 - 18.7ppm (accetpable levels for both fish and plants I believe?!!)
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Anyways here's what I got.  I'm going to purchase an O2 test to make sure my levels there are ok as well.  Any other test I should get.  I did have a nitrate test, however it ran out so I'll be picking that up as well.  Off to spend some money!  Might come back with that 150 gal I've been eyeing for a while too.  LOL, my gf would flip I think! :)
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Thank you all so much for everything!  You're all the BEST!

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1410 From: Jonathan Short Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: dropsy
                                                                                                              Does anyone know how to spot the difference between a pregnant
                                                                                                              livebearer and dropsy?
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1411 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: dropsy
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              You'll want to look at the scales. If the scales are sticking out, making the fish look sort of like a pine cone, then it's dropsy. Pregnant live bearers don't have that "pine cone" look.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              However, I'm having a heck of a time spotting my livebearers as being pregnant until they've released a bunch of babies in my tank! I always catch them too late, apparently.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              (please only 3 requests per day!)
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              check my Fotki album for sig tag deliveries
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              visit my Yahoo! groups ...
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Date: 03/20/04 17:27:30
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] dropsy
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Does anyone know how to spot the difference between a pregnant
                                                                                                              livebearer and dropsy?
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1412 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: dropsy
                                                                                                              One thing I remember about fish-dropsy, is that every picture I've seen indicates the entire body swollen to a point where the scales are spread apart, so that the fish scales resemble more a pine cone, than a swollen fish, with the scales snugly overlapping one another.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > Does anyone know how to spot the difference between a pregnant
                                                                                                              > livebearer and dropsy?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1413 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Fuzzy fuzzy
                                                                                                              Brown algae will not really effect the water flow of a
                                                                                                              undergravel filter too much. It would take a massive clump to get
                                                                                                              caught in a tube for it to really affect water flow too much I
                                                                                                              believe. With an external power filter however it can really cause
                                                                                                              big problems when it gets stuck in the intake. If you really really
                                                                                                              want to clean it use the hottest water possible running through the
                                                                                                              tubes and it will eventually wash away. Either way I am sure your
                                                                                                              fish do not mind too much either way.


                                                                                                              Randy Clark
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1414 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/20/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Fuzzy fuzzy
                                                                                                              There are flexible wire brushes, of different sizes, meant specifically to clean tubes of different sizes. I've never seen brown (what most describe as algae have been described in a fish-book as 'brown radiolaria, and are allegedly diatoms, and whether theoretically or not, contain calcium that can absorb toxins) algae, that accumulated to the degree you described.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > Brown algae will not really effect the water flow of a
                                                                                                              > undergravel filter too much. It would take a massive clump to get
                                                                                                              > caught in a tube for it to really affect water flow too much I
                                                                                                              > believe. With an external power filter however it can really cause
                                                                                                              > big problems when it gets stuck in the intake. If you really really
                                                                                                              > want to clean it use the hottest water possible running through the
                                                                                                              > tubes and it will eventually wash away. Either way I am sure your
                                                                                                              > fish do not mind too much either way.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Randy Clark
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1415 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                              Hey Edward, what parts do you hail from? I know PetsMart has almost 600
                                                                                                              stores, but my curiosity must be satiated.

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1416 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: micro bubbles on plants?
                                                                                                              JMO, Edward, but it sounds like you're trying too hard. Slow down and
                                                                                                              try not to do too much too quickly. You can't make a tank stabilize, it
                                                                                                              has to happen on it's own. When doing a DIY CO2 reactor, use a 3 liter
                                                                                                              bottle with 2 liter instructions. that gives you some leeway. I've
                                                                                                              noticed that the ppl who bring me the most test water are the ones who
                                                                                                              are trying to force tanks to do something, whether it be stocking too
                                                                                                              quickly or too many plants all at once, ect. It's too late for the fish
                                                                                                              who've died, so just relax a little. No one else is at risk, right?
                                                                                                              Just give your tank a couple of weeks, it'll stabilize. Then slowly
                                                                                                              repopulate it. Well, good luck.

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1417 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Test results are in
                                                                                                              My bad, you've got a 3 liter. Can you tell I don't have a lot of time
                                                                                                              to check messages?

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1418 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                              I worked in the one in Olathe, Kansas. Currently I visit the one in
                                                                                                              Merriam, Kansas a little closer to home now!

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: <bucks_boogie@...>
                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 6:18 AM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Advice for a novice?


                                                                                                              > Hey Edward, what parts do you hail from? I know PetsMart has almost 600
                                                                                                              > stores, but my curiosity must be satiated.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1419 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Test results are in
                                                                                                              :) I hear ya there! Life is a constant high speed car. You go in circles
                                                                                                              at 180mph to end up and the same place you started! LOL

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: <bucks_boogie@...>
                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:21 AM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Test results are in


                                                                                                              > My bad, you've got a 3 liter. Can you tell I don't have a lot of time
                                                                                                              > to check messages?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1420 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Proper O2 Levels
                                                                                                              Hey gang, have a quick question.  What are normal levels of 02 in a particular tank.  I can't seem to find an adequate answer on google.com.  I have an 80 and 2 - 20's.  Thank you all!

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1421 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: opinion question..
                                                                                                              hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time
                                                                                                              explaining to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large (8"+)
                                                                                                              common pleco in a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they tend to
                                                                                                              keep them in super overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me insane.
                                                                                                              this is partially due to the fact that "they've always done that" but
                                                                                                              then they wonder why the fish don't ever move and look miserable. can
                                                                                                              anyone let me know how to convince someone who's "always" done
                                                                                                              something one way to change these methods? i'm also having a hard time
                                                                                                              explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and also a filter because
                                                                                                              "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he died." i find i run into
                                                                                                              this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any suggestions as to how
                                                                                                              one might educate people on these types of things?

                                                                                                              amalthea

                                                                                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1422 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Opinion granted
                                                                                                              I would be more concerned with a pleco being in a small tank
                                                                                                              rather than an unheated tank. Common plecos are quite hardy and not
                                                                                                              as sensitive as the uncommon ones, so I do not think temperature
                                                                                                              change is too huge for them. As far as telling a pet store different
                                                                                                              you really cant. Until they lose many fish at once for a long period
                                                                                                              of time you will not be able to have them change anything. As long
                                                                                                              as a common pleco is common it cant be done.

                                                                                                              Bettas do prefer warm water and filtration of course. Every
                                                                                                              book written about bettas tells betta owners to place them in larger
                                                                                                              tanks because that is the way to get the most color from the fish.
                                                                                                              Of course the chain stores do not care as long as long as they sell
                                                                                                              quickly and die quickly so they can sell more. Its a shame but until
                                                                                                              there is a governmental pet agency that grants licenses to sell pets
                                                                                                              there is no way to change what goes on at these places.

                                                                                                              The best and only way to get people to understand it to
                                                                                                              recommend people go somewhere other than these places to get the fish
                                                                                                              somewhere else. If enough people complain and do not purchase
                                                                                                              eventually they may change things a little.


                                                                                                              Randy Clark
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1423 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Opinion granted
                                                                                                              thanks for the advice. this isn't a store though, it's a private res.
                                                                                                              i'm very concerned about the size also, i just had to spend 8 hours
                                                                                                              breaking up a WAY too overloaded koi tank into 3 tanks because a sick
                                                                                                              koi was put in (and when i say sick, i mean a hole that rotted so deep
                                                                                                              into its head you could almost see through it) and everyone caught fin
                                                                                                              and tail rot.
                                                                                                              i'm grumpy about mistreated fish today lol...
                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                              On Mar 22, 2004, at 12:30 AM, dolph72.geo wrote:

                                                                                                              >      I would be more concerned with a pleco being in a small tank
                                                                                                              > rather than an unheated tank.  Common plecos are quite hardy and not
                                                                                                              > as sensitive as the uncommon ones, so I do not think temperature
                                                                                                              > change is too huge for them.  As far as telling a pet store different
                                                                                                              > you really cant.  Until they lose many fish at once for a long period
                                                                                                              > of time you will not be able to have them change anything.  As long
                                                                                                              > as a common pleco is common it cant be done.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >      Bettas do prefer warm water and filtration of course.  Every
                                                                                                              > book written about bettas tells betta owners to place them in larger
                                                                                                              > tanks because that is the way to get the most color from the fish. 
                                                                                                              > Of course the chain stores do not care as long as long as they sell
                                                                                                              > quickly and die quickly so they can sell more.  Its a shame but until
                                                                                                              > there is a governmental pet agency that grants licenses to sell pets
                                                                                                              > there is no way to change what goes on at these places.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >      The best and only way to get people to understand it to
                                                                                                              > recommend people go somewhere other than these places to get the fish
                                                                                                              > somewhere else.  If enough people complain and do not purchase
                                                                                                              > eventually they may change things a little.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Randy Clark
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1424 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Opinion granted
                                                                                                              Well theres nothing like sick expensive fish to get most people
                                                                                                              to snap to attention. A koi pond is always a good way to go but in
                                                                                                              your part of the world its not feasible half of the year. Hopefully
                                                                                                              they have the really expensive fancy koi and not the feeder koi I
                                                                                                              have seen at some pet places to scare some sense into them. Other
                                                                                                              than that its a hopeless situation.

                                                                                                              Randy Clark
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1425 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Opinion granted
                                                                                                              that's the worst part! it's probably about 800$ in fish that are
                                                                                                              infected now. they have HUGE expensive koi. i just don't get it.
                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                              On Mar 22, 2004, at 1:23 AM, dolph72.geo wrote:

                                                                                                              >      Well theres nothing like sick expensive fish to get most people
                                                                                                              > to snap to attention.  A koi pond is always a good way to go but in
                                                                                                              > your part of the world its not feasible half of the year.  Hopefully
                                                                                                              > they have the really expensive fancy koi and not the feeder koi I
                                                                                                              > have seen at some pet places to scare some sense into them.  Other
                                                                                                              > than that its a hopeless situation.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Randy Clark
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1426 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Proper O2 Levels
                                                                                                              H'lo,
                                                                                                              I don't know a thing about CO2 in the ways y'all've been talking about. what with bottles, tubes, sugar, yeast and bubbles. etc. But are a certain number of plants required to take advantage of the required amount of CO2? Do fewer plants leave more CO2 in the tank than a heavily planted tank? I've just managed to eventually grow Hygro and Java Fern and Moss, with Tetra substrate formed into baked mudballs.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1427 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Opinion granted
                                                                                                              What do you think the logistics would be of finding what every pet-buyer wants?
                                                                                                              Bettas' for violence?
                                                                                                              Bettas' for being imprisoned in little closets?
                                                                                                              Bettas' for buying larger tanks so they can have more color?
                                                                                                              Pit Bulls?
                                                                                                              Bettas' are pretty much in the same state most zoo animals were in before it was found that by expanding and approximating their environment, they left their neuroses/psychoses behind, and became social. Now I think the word "enrichment" is being overused.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > I would be more concerned with a pleco being in a small tank
                                                                                                              > rather than an unheated tank. Common plecos are quite hardy and not
                                                                                                              > as sensitive as the uncommon ones, so I do not think temperature
                                                                                                              > change is too huge for them. As far as telling a pet store different
                                                                                                              > you really cant. Until they lose many fish at once for a long period
                                                                                                              > of time you will not be able to have them change anything. As long
                                                                                                              > as a common pleco is common it cant be done.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Bettas do prefer warm water and filtration of course. Every
                                                                                                              > book written about bettas tells betta owners to place them in larger
                                                                                                              > tanks because that is the way to get the most color from the fish.
                                                                                                              > Of course the chain stores do not care as long as long as they sell
                                                                                                              > quickly and die quickly so they can sell more. Its a shame but until
                                                                                                              > there is a governmental pet agency that grants licenses to sell pets
                                                                                                              > there is no way to change what goes on at these places.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > The best and only way to get people to understand it to
                                                                                                              > recommend people go somewhere other than these places to get the fish
                                                                                                              > somewhere else. If enough people complain and do not purchase
                                                                                                              > eventually they may change things a little.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Randy Clark
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1428 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/21/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Proper O2 Levels
                                                                                                              Came accross this link, and it mentions a Dupla Oxygen test-kit.
                                                                                                                                     Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:39 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Proper O2 Levels

                                                                                                              Hey gang, have a quick question.  What are normal levels of 02 in a particular tank.  I can't seem to find an adequate answer on google.com.  I have an 80 and 2 - 20's.  Thank you all!

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1429 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Proper O2 Levels
                                                                                                              This page has pertinent info on Oxy-levels. (I mis-typed it last send.
                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:39 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Proper O2 Levels

                                                                                                              Hey gang, have a quick question.  What are normal levels of 02 in a particular tank.  I can't seem to find an adequate answer on google.com.  I have an 80 and 2 - 20's.  Thank you all!

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1430 From: tbittick Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              I don't know if this will do it, but it reminds me of a story I use in
                                                                                                              business situations a lot.

                                                                                                              Some scientist took a group of five apes and put them in a zoo cage. Inside
                                                                                                              the cage they hung a bunch of bananas from the ceiling and then put a step
                                                                                                              ladder under the bananas.

                                                                                                              As soon as the first ape climbed the ladder to get to the bananas they
                                                                                                              unleashed a fire hose on all the apes.

                                                                                                              The apes waited and eventuall a second ape went for the ladder and again the
                                                                                                              firehose came out. By the time the third ape started for the ladder the
                                                                                                              other four went after him and stopped him from getting to the ladder, thus
                                                                                                              stopping the appearance of the firehose.

                                                                                                              The scientist removed one of the original apes and replaced it with a new
                                                                                                              one. Of course the first thing it tried to do was get to the bananas, but
                                                                                                              the old timers stopped it.

                                                                                                              They replaced all of the apes in this manner until none of the originals was
                                                                                                              left. The bananas stayed as did the ladder but none of the apes would
                                                                                                              approach it... even though they never really knew why. It's just the way
                                                                                                              things were done when they got there...

                                                                                                              T



                                                                                                              amalthea23 writes:

                                                                                                              > hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time explaining
                                                                                                              > to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large (8"+) common pleco in
                                                                                                              > a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they tend to keep them in super
                                                                                                              > overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me insane. this is partially due to
                                                                                                              > the fact that "they've always done that" but then they wonder why the fish
                                                                                                              > don't ever move and look miserable. can anyone let me know how to convince
                                                                                                              > someone who's "always" done something one way to change these methods? i'm
                                                                                                              > also having a hard time explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and
                                                                                                              > also a filter because "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he
                                                                                                              > died." i find i run into this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any
                                                                                                              > suggestions as to how one might educate people on these types of things?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > amalthea
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                              > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1431 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              You can't pre-empt television, 'cause if Presidential incumbants can't have time in tv 'cause a football-game will bring in the viewers. Tou could'nt pre-empt newspaper-headlines. If you carried a placard on the street you'd be called a nut. If you tried directly you'd probably be ignored. You can't spam the internet. You can't send people to University to study Icthyology and ethics. Gotta get to work!
                                                                                                              Bye,
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > I don't know if this will do it, but it reminds me of a story I use in
                                                                                                              > business situations a lot.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Some scientist took a group of five apes and put them in a zoo cage. Inside
                                                                                                              > the cage they hung a bunch of bananas from the ceiling and then put a step
                                                                                                              > ladder under the bananas.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > As soon as the first ape climbed the ladder to get to the bananas they
                                                                                                              > unleashed a fire hose on all the apes.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > The apes waited and eventuall a second ape went for the ladder and again the
                                                                                                              > firehose came out. By the time the third ape started for the ladder the
                                                                                                              > other four went after him and stopped him from getting to the ladder, thus
                                                                                                              > stopping the appearance of the firehose.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > The scientist removed one of the original apes and replaced it with a new
                                                                                                              > one. Of course the first thing it tried to do was get to the bananas, but
                                                                                                              > the old timers stopped it.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > They replaced all of the apes in this manner until none of the originals was
                                                                                                              > left. The bananas stayed as did the ladder but none of the apes would
                                                                                                              > approach it... even though they never really knew why. It's just the way
                                                                                                              > things were done when they got there...
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > T
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > > hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time explaining
                                                                                                              > > to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large (8"+) common pleco in
                                                                                                              > > a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they tend to keep them in super
                                                                                                              > > overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me insane. this is partially due to
                                                                                                              > > the fact that "they've always done that" but then they wonder why the fish
                                                                                                              > > don't ever move and look miserable. can anyone let me know how to convince
                                                                                                              > > someone who's "always" done something one way to change these methods? i'm
                                                                                                              > > also having a hard time explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and
                                                                                                              > > also a filter because "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he
                                                                                                              > > died." i find i run into this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any
                                                                                                              > > suggestions as to how one might educate people on these types of things?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > amalthea
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                              > > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1432 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              I hate to think of the fish suffering, but it sounds like if they won't listen to you just telling them, the only way they'll learn is by the fish dying. Maybe give them some books to look through that tell them how WRONG their set up is?
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              It sounds HORRIBLE! I've got a small pleco in my tank, and I've already arranged for him to get a pond home when he gets too big for the tank.  Right now I've got him in my tropical tank with my mollies and platys, so when I give him to my mom and stepdad I'm going to suggest they keep their pond's temp at about the same temp I've got my tank at.  
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Date: 03/21/04 23:10:11
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opinion question..
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time
                                                                                                              explaining to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large (8"+)
                                                                                                              common pleco in a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they tend to
                                                                                                              keep them in super overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me insane.
                                                                                                              this is partially due to the fact that "they've always done that" but
                                                                                                              then they wonder why the fish don't ever move and look miserable. can
                                                                                                              anyone let me know how to convince someone who's "always" done
                                                                                                              something one way to change these methods? i'm also having a hard time
                                                                                                              explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and also a filter because
                                                                                                              "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he died." i find i run into
                                                                                                              this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any suggestions as to how
                                                                                                              one might educate people on these types of things?
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1433 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: "salty" smell??
                                                                                                              So I start my syphon for my weekly partial water change, making sure I get in the gravel well so I can get out that weird "cottony" brown stuff, when I notice an odor. My freshwater tank smells like the ocean.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Now I've been following package directions with aquarium salt, only putting in 1 1/2 tbsp per five gallons of NEW water. And this is the first time I've noticed a "salty" odor. Now is it possible that the odor is normal when using aquarium salt? Or maybe could it be associated with whatever that brown stuff is? (note to self ... pick up a "baby bottle brush" today to clean out UGF tubes)
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I'm going to continue with my water change as normal, and test my water conditions as normal, just thought I'd try and get your opinions on possibilities for the smell. It's not a murky "marshy" smell ... it's more of what you smell when you go to the beach, if that makes any sense. It's  a clean "salty" smell, at least.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               And the fish seem fine ... no signs of stress, I think one of my platys might be getting ready to have more babies because she's been spending a lot of time hiding in the log decoration. And the fish are having a BLAST eating those brown cottony bits that are getting stirred up and were just a little too heavy for the vacuum to pick up. (they were stuck on bits of gravel.) I don't usually see them go this "mad" over something to eat unless I'm dropping a half an algae tab in for the pleco. So whatever the brown stuff and odor cause is, it doesn't APPEAR to be hurting my fish.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1434 From: dawnmvo Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Hello I am new
                                                                                                              Hello

                                                                                                              I have a 10 gallon tank and 2 2.5 gallon tanks. I have been given a
                                                                                                              40 gallon tank. After closer inspection it has a chip missing from
                                                                                                              it, right along the joint about half way up. I hauled it out of the
                                                                                                              shed today and filled it up. No Leaks! but I am nervous about
                                                                                                              using it. Can you repair somehting like this? I wonder if it will
                                                                                                              end up leaking or burst from their being a weak spot.

                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                              Dawn
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1435 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Seeing this subject I'm getting a little concerned. I just bought a
                                                                                                              baby "rubber mouth pleco" (that's what they called it!), I have him
                                                                                                              in my 29 gallon tank - is the little guy gonna grow too big for that
                                                                                                              tank?

                                                                                                              Our house has so many windows there is really nowhere I can put the
                                                                                                              tank where it won't get direct sunlight at some point during the day
                                                                                                              and so I've been having quite a bit of algae growing. I thought a
                                                                                                              pleco could help, I also have live plants in the tank. Not a lot of
                                                                                                              fish, 6 danio's, 1 male betta, 1 cory cat. So I thought adding the
                                                                                                              pleco would be okay, but after reading some of the posts now I'm
                                                                                                              thinking, uh oh..... I never heard of a rubber-mouthed pleco
                                                                                                              before, mainly I've only heard of the zebra pleco's. Anyoneknow how
                                                                                                              big this guy might grow?

                                                                                                              Thanks for any help!

                                                                                                              Peggy




                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                                                                              Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > I hate to think of the fish suffering, but it sounds like if they
                                                                                                              won't
                                                                                                              > listen to you just telling them, the only way they'll learn is by
                                                                                                              the fish
                                                                                                              > dying. Maybe give them some books to look through that tell them
                                                                                                              how WRONG
                                                                                                              > their set up is?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > It sounds HORRIBLE! I've got a small pleco in my tank, and I've
                                                                                                              already
                                                                                                              > arranged for him to get a pond home when he gets too big for the
                                                                                                              tank.
                                                                                                              > Right now I've got him in my tropical tank with my mollies and
                                                                                                              platys, so
                                                                                                              > when I give him to my mom and stepdad I'm going to suggest they
                                                                                                              keep their
                                                                                                              > pond's temp at about the same temp I've got my tank at.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Erin
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > Date: 03/21/04 23:10:11
                                                                                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opinion question..
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time
                                                                                                              > explaining to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large
                                                                                                              (8"+)
                                                                                                              > common pleco in a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they tend
                                                                                                              to
                                                                                                              > keep them in super overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me
                                                                                                              insane.
                                                                                                              > this is partially due to the fact that "they've always done that"
                                                                                                              but
                                                                                                              > then they wonder why the fish don't ever move and look miserable.
                                                                                                              can
                                                                                                              > anyone let me know how to convince someone who's "always" done
                                                                                                              > something one way to change these methods? i'm also having a hard
                                                                                                              time
                                                                                                              > explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and also a filter
                                                                                                              because
                                                                                                              > "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he died." i find i run
                                                                                                              into
                                                                                                              > this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any suggestions as to
                                                                                                              how
                                                                                                              > one might educate people on these types of things?
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1436 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              OK, just answered my own question, I think. After a little Internet
                                                                                                              research - yes, he will get too big for this tank. Looks like I'm
                                                                                                              going to be getting another 55 gallon tank sometime in the near
                                                                                                              future!! I also get the feeling, after checking a few sites, that
                                                                                                              those nice plants I have in there....aren't gonna be around for
                                                                                                              long! Ha ha! That's what I get for not doing my research! The pet
                                                                                                              shop got me hook, line & sinker!!! He's only a little baby now,
                                                                                                              very small....and the girl who fished him out for me said, "You only
                                                                                                              want one?" like I should buy five or six, boy, am I glad I didn't
                                                                                                              go for that one! I knew that pleco's eat a lot so I thought with a
                                                                                                              29 gallon tank and the amount of algae it gets, one pleco should be
                                                                                                              enough. If I had realized he could grow to more than a foot long, I
                                                                                                              would have said one is too many!

                                                                                                              Ah, it'll give me an excuse to go back to a bigger tank again!

                                                                                                              Peggy

                                                                                                              --- In
                                                                                                              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "summertyme1113"
                                                                                                              <peggy1155@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > Seeing this subject I'm getting a little concerned. I just bought
                                                                                                              a
                                                                                                              > baby "rubber mouth pleco" (that's what they called it!), I have
                                                                                                              him
                                                                                                              > in my 29 gallon tank - is the little guy gonna grow too big for
                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                              > tank?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Our house has so many windows there is really nowhere I can put
                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                              > tank where it won't get direct sunlight at some point during the
                                                                                                              day
                                                                                                              > and so I've been having quite a bit of algae growing. I thought a
                                                                                                              > pleco could help, I also have live plants in the tank. Not a lot
                                                                                                              of
                                                                                                              > fish, 6 danio's, 1 male betta, 1 cory cat. So I thought adding the
                                                                                                              > pleco would be okay, but after reading some of the posts now I'm
                                                                                                              > thinking, uh oh..... I never heard of a rubber-mouthed pleco
                                                                                                              > before, mainly I've only heard of the zebra pleco's. Anyoneknow
                                                                                                              how
                                                                                                              > big this guy might grow?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Peggy
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                                                                              > Vankouwenberg" <celticmommy@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > > I hate to think of the fish suffering, but it sounds like if
                                                                                                              they
                                                                                                              > won't
                                                                                                              > > listen to you just telling them, the only way they'll learn is
                                                                                                              by
                                                                                                              > the fish
                                                                                                              > > dying. Maybe give them some books to look through that tell them
                                                                                                              > how WRONG
                                                                                                              > > their set up is?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > It sounds HORRIBLE! I've got a small pleco in my tank, and I've
                                                                                                              > already
                                                                                                              > > arranged for him to get a pond home when he gets too big for the
                                                                                                              > tank.
                                                                                                              > > Right now I've got him in my tropical tank with my mollies and
                                                                                                              > platys, so
                                                                                                              > > when I give him to my mom and stepdad I'm going to suggest they
                                                                                                              > keep their
                                                                                                              > > pond's temp at about the same temp I've got my tank at.
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Erin
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > > Date: 03/21/04 23:10:11
                                                                                                              > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opinion question..
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time
                                                                                                              > > explaining to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large
                                                                                                              > (8"+)
                                                                                                              > > common pleco in a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they
                                                                                                              tend
                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                              > > keep them in super overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me
                                                                                                              > insane.
                                                                                                              > > this is partially due to the fact that "they've always done
                                                                                                              that"
                                                                                                              > but
                                                                                                              > > then they wonder why the fish don't ever move and look
                                                                                                              miserable.
                                                                                                              > can
                                                                                                              > > anyone let me know how to convince someone who's "always" done
                                                                                                              > > something one way to change these methods? i'm also having a
                                                                                                              hard
                                                                                                              > time
                                                                                                              > > explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and also a filter
                                                                                                              > because
                                                                                                              > > "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he died." i find i
                                                                                                              run
                                                                                                              > into
                                                                                                              > > this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any suggestions as to
                                                                                                              > how
                                                                                                              > > one might educate people on these types of things?
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1437 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              You could try searching the net (GOOGLE, etc.) using terms like;
                                                                                                              humane treatment of fish
                                                                                                              " " " large fish
                                                                                                              Are betta bowls humane
                                                                                                              Do aquarium fish need space?
                                                                                                              Big fish in small tanks
                                                                                                              Evolution of zoos
                                                                                                              Do animals like space?
                                                                                                              Do animals need space?
                                                                                                              Are betta bowls cruel?

                                                                                                              ...................and save yourself some money T5he Doctor of Icthyology in a book I have mentioned larger spaces for Bettas', not for color-enhancement, but for health (mental).
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1438 From: summertyme1113 Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              I hate how people try to keep betta's in some tiny tank, too. I
                                                                                                              have one in my 29 gallon tank now and he is such a show off!! He
                                                                                                              loves to be watched and does all kinds of cool things to get
                                                                                                              attention. I have an aquarium ornament that is like two old pottery
                                                                                                              jugs and bubbles comes and he makes a big show of going in one and
                                                                                                              coming out the other, all fins spread as he makes his great exit. I
                                                                                                              had a brackish tank for years so I couldn't have a Betta but prior
                                                                                                              to having the brackish tank I had a freshwater tank. I had a Betta
                                                                                                              in there that was a great show-off too. They love having the space
                                                                                                              to swim around in. You really don't get to see any of their real
                                                                                                              character keeping them in a tiny fishbowl. If the males weren't so
                                                                                                              nasty with each other I would love to have a tank full of them!

                                                                                                              Peggy


                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                              <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time
                                                                                                              > explaining to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large
                                                                                                              (8"+)
                                                                                                              > common pleco in a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they tend
                                                                                                              to
                                                                                                              > keep them in super overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me
                                                                                                              insane.
                                                                                                              > this is partially due to the fact that "they've always done that"
                                                                                                              but
                                                                                                              > then they wonder why the fish don't ever move and look miserable.
                                                                                                              can
                                                                                                              > anyone let me know how to convince someone who's "always" done
                                                                                                              > something one way to change these methods? i'm also having a hard
                                                                                                              time
                                                                                                              > explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and also a filter
                                                                                                              because
                                                                                                              > "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he died." i find i run
                                                                                                              into
                                                                                                              > this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any suggestions as to
                                                                                                              how
                                                                                                              > one might educate people on these types of things?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > amalthea
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                              > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1439 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              Unfortunately, there are many stores of this type. The local store that I
                                                                                                              have is very much of the same intelligence level and still seem to think
                                                                                                              that they know everything. Their fish are mostly diseased and overly
                                                                                                              stressed. They also have a certificate of merit for the best aquarium shop
                                                                                                              in the area??? When I tried to find out as to how they got it, it turns out
                                                                                                              that they are the only shop in the area that does freshwater.. hence, a
                                                                                                              Monopoly. I was surprised when the guy told me that one of the 1.5" red
                                                                                                              rainbow he had in a tank was a female. And the confidence level in saying
                                                                                                              that was so high that for a minute, even I thought that it could be a female
                                                                                                              but you cannot sex them at that age and size in any way.

                                                                                                              They specialize in planted tanks and did not know that Wisteria was a
                                                                                                              hygrophylla species.

                                                                                                              Nim


                                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                              >Sent: 22 March 2004 11:56
                                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >I don't know if this will do it, but it reminds me of a story I use in
                                                                                                              >business situations a lot.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >Some scientist took a group of five apes and put them in a zoo cage. Inside
                                                                                                              >the cage they hung a bunch of bananas from the ceiling and then put a step
                                                                                                              >ladder under the bananas.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >As soon as the first ape climbed the ladder to get to the bananas they
                                                                                                              >unleashed a fire hose on all the apes.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >The apes waited and eventuall a second ape went for the ladder and again
                                                                                                              >the
                                                                                                              >firehose came out. By the time the third ape started for the ladder the
                                                                                                              >other four went after him and stopped him from getting to the ladder, thus
                                                                                                              >stopping the appearance of the firehose.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >The scientist removed one of the original apes and replaced it with a new
                                                                                                              >one. Of course the first thing it tried to do was get to the bananas, but
                                                                                                              >the old timers stopped it.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >They replaced all of the apes in this manner until none of the originals
                                                                                                              >was
                                                                                                              >left. The bananas stayed as did the ladder but none of the apes would
                                                                                                              >approach it... even though they never really knew why. It's just the way
                                                                                                              >things were done when they got there...
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >T
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >> hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time explaining
                                                                                                              >> to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large (8"+) common pleco in
                                                                                                              >> a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they tend to keep them in super
                                                                                                              >> overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me insane. this is partially due
                                                                                                              >to
                                                                                                              >> the fact that "they've always done that" but then they wonder why the
                                                                                                              >fish
                                                                                                              >> don't ever move and look miserable. can anyone let me know how to
                                                                                                              >convince
                                                                                                              >> someone who's "always" done something one way to change these methods?
                                                                                                              >i'm
                                                                                                              >> also having a hard time explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and
                                                                                                              >> also a filter because "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he
                                                                                                              >> died." i find i run into this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any
                                                                                                              >> suggestions as to how one might educate people on these types of things?
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >> amalthea
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                              >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1440 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              what i'm trying to do now is just slowly educate them, but the hardest
                                                                                                              thing is getting them past "but we've always done it this way with no
                                                                                                              problems."
                                                                                                              one of their fish is horribly sick, and disfigured and i said that
                                                                                                              perhaps the kindest thing would be to put it to sleep and she became
                                                                                                              horrified, although she was fine with putting him in a tiny cramped
                                                                                                              tank so he would "just die naturally." i don't know about anyone else
                                                                                                              on this list, but i think that unless you can accept the responsibility
                                                                                                              of not only keeping an animal humanely, but also deciding that
                                                                                                              sometimes the only humane thing to do is to put it down, you shouldn't
                                                                                                              keep animals.
                                                                                                              i'm so frustrated!
                                                                                                              but at least when i got home i say that all of my own fish were happy
                                                                                                              and healthy and my single mom (her partner died last week from a
                                                                                                              parasite) is doing a great job caring for her babies and they're huge!
                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                              On Mar 22, 2004, at 6:12 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                              >    You could try searching the net (GOOGLE, etc.) using terms like;
                                                                                                              >         humane treatment of fish
                                                                                                              >            "       "     "  large fish
                                                                                                              >         Are betta bowls humane
                                                                                                              >         Do aquarium fish need space?
                                                                                                              >         Big fish in small tanks
                                                                                                              >         Evolution of zoos
                                                                                                              >         Do animals like space?
                                                                                                              >         Do animals need space?
                                                                                                              >         Are betta bowls cruel?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >          ...................and save yourself some money T5he Doctor
                                                                                                              > of Icthyology in a book I have mentioned larger spaces for Bettas',
                                                                                                              > not for color-enhancement, but for health (mental).
                                                                                                              >                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > ADVERTISEMENT
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                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >  
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                                                                                                              > Service.
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1441 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/22/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              hey peggy, what other fish do you have your betta in with? i have a
                                                                                                              community tank, and i have two female bettas in it, and they do just
                                                                                                              fine. i'd like to put a male in, but i'm concerned about whether or not
                                                                                                              he'll be able to escape other fish. my parrot fish are territorial, but
                                                                                                              not chasers. that is, they'll charge at a fish and nip at it until it
                                                                                                              leaves their claimed space, but they won't endlessly follow it about,
                                                                                                              attacking it. my platty's don't seem to have trouble, or the pleco, the
                                                                                                              loaches or even my larger tetras. do you think the flowing fins of a
                                                                                                              male tetra would inhibit his movement enough to endanger him?
                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                              On Mar 22, 2004, at 6:14 PM, summertyme1113 wrote:

                                                                                                              > I hate how people try to keep betta's in some tiny tank, too.  I
                                                                                                              > have one in my 29 gallon tank now and he is such a show off!!  He
                                                                                                              > loves to be watched and does all kinds of cool things to get
                                                                                                              > attention.  I have an aquarium ornament that is like two old pottery
                                                                                                              > jugs and bubbles comes and he makes a big show of going in one and
                                                                                                              > coming out the other, all fins spread as he makes his great exit.  I
                                                                                                              > had a brackish tank for years so I couldn't have a Betta but prior
                                                                                                              > to having the brackish tank I had a freshwater tank.  I had a Betta
                                                                                                              > in there that was a great show-off too.  They love having the space
                                                                                                              > to swim around in.  You really don't get to see any of their real
                                                                                                              > character keeping them in a tiny fishbowl.  If the males weren't so
                                                                                                              > nasty with each other I would love to have a tank full of them!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Peggy
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                              > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > > hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time
                                                                                                              > > explaining to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large
                                                                                                              > (8"+)
                                                                                                              > > common pleco in a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they tend
                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                              > > keep them in super overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me
                                                                                                              > insane.
                                                                                                              > > this is partially due to the fact that "they've always done that"
                                                                                                              > but
                                                                                                              > > then they wonder why the fish don't ever move and look miserable.
                                                                                                              > can
                                                                                                              > > anyone let me know how to convince someone who's "always" done
                                                                                                              > > something one way to change these methods? i'm also having a hard
                                                                                                              > time
                                                                                                              > > explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and also a filter
                                                                                                              > because
                                                                                                              > > "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he died." i find i run
                                                                                                              > into
                                                                                                              > > this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any suggestions as to
                                                                                                              > how
                                                                                                              > > one might educate people on these types of things?
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > amalthea
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                              > > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                              > <yhoo0104_b_300250a.gif>
                                                                                                              > <l.gif>
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                              web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1442 From: John Clothier Date: 3/23/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Hello I am new
                                                                                                              Hi Dawn
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              it's difficult to comment without seeing the chip, but if it's not leeking I would apply some aquarium seelant to the area and leave it in your garden for a couple of weeks filled, just to make sure.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              John
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: dawnmvo
                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:40 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hello I am new

                                                                                                              Hello

                                                                                                              I have a 10 gallon tank and 2 2.5 gallon tanks.  I have been given a
                                                                                                              40 gallon tank.  After closer inspection it has a chip missing from
                                                                                                              it, right along the joint about half way up.  I hauled it out of the
                                                                                                              shed today and filled it up.  No Leaks!  but I am nervous about
                                                                                                              using it.  Can you repair somehting like this?  I wonder if it will
                                                                                                              end up leaking or burst from their being a weak spot.

                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                              Dawn




                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1443 From: John Clothier Date: 3/23/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              Nim, Which shop is this? It would nice to avoid it in the future!
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:40 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opinion question..

                                                                                                              Unfortunately, there are many stores of this type. The local store that I
                                                                                                              have is very much of the same intelligence level and still seem to think
                                                                                                              that they know everything. Their fish are mostly diseased and overly
                                                                                                              stressed. They also have a certificate of merit for the best aquarium shop
                                                                                                              in the area??? When I tried to find out as to how they got it, it turns out
                                                                                                              that they are the only shop in the area that does freshwater.. hence, a
                                                                                                              Monopoly. I was surprised when the guy told me that one of the 1.5" red
                                                                                                              rainbow he had in a tank was a female. And the confidence level in saying
                                                                                                              that was so high that for a minute, even I thought that it could be a female
                                                                                                              but you cannot sex them at that age and size in any way.

                                                                                                              They specialize in planted tanks and did not know that Wisteria was a
                                                                                                              hygrophylla species.

                                                                                                              Nim


                                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                              >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                              >Sent: 22 March 2004 11:56
                                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >I don't know if this will do it, but it reminds me of a story I use in
                                                                                                              >business situations a lot.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >Some scientist took a group of five apes and put them in a zoo cage. Inside
                                                                                                              >the cage they hung a bunch of bananas from the ceiling and then put a step
                                                                                                              >ladder under the bananas.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >As soon as the first ape climbed the ladder to get to the bananas they
                                                                                                              >unleashed a fire hose on all the apes.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >The apes waited and eventuall a second ape went for the ladder and again
                                                                                                              >the
                                                                                                              >firehose came out. By the time the third ape started for the ladder the
                                                                                                              >other four went after him and stopped him from getting to the ladder, thus
                                                                                                              >stopping the appearance of the firehose.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >The scientist removed one of the original apes and replaced it with a new
                                                                                                              >one. Of course the first thing it tried to do was get to the bananas, but
                                                                                                              >the old timers stopped it.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >They replaced all of the apes in this manner until none of the originals
                                                                                                              >was
                                                                                                              >left. The bananas stayed as did the ladder but none of the apes would
                                                                                                              >approach it... even though they never really knew why. It's just the way
                                                                                                              >things were done when they got there...
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >T
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >> hey all, i have a question. i'm having a really difficult time explaining
                                                                                                              >> to my friend that you really shouldn't keep a large (8"+) common pleco in
                                                                                                              >> a) a small tank and b) an unheated tank. they tend to keep them in super
                                                                                                              >> overstocked koi tanks and it's driving me insane. this is partially due
                                                                                                              >to
                                                                                                              >> the fact that "they've always done that" but then they wonder why the
                                                                                                              >fish
                                                                                                              >> don't ever move and look miserable. can anyone let me know how to
                                                                                                              >convince
                                                                                                              >> someone who's "always" done something one way to change these methods?
                                                                                                              >i'm
                                                                                                              >> also having a hard time explaining that bettas do prefer warm water and
                                                                                                              >> also a filter because "we kept it in a bowl for four years before he
                                                                                                              >> died." i find i run into this sort of thing a lot, does anyone have any
                                                                                                              >> suggestions as to how one might educate people on these types of things?
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >> amalthea
                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                              >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                              >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1444 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/23/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Help... I have 2 of the most gorgeous angel fish in my 29 gallon community tank, but all of the sudden they seem to be getting picked on by a few of my babies! ( By babies I mean the 10-12 swordtails ( both green and red velvet) that are the runts and have not grown big enough to sell back to the petstore yet. ( a couple of these "baby Bullies" are just 1/2" long)
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ALL of these fish have been in the tank for over 3 weeks together and now they decide to start with their fin nipping!     I have a couple of choices!!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              1. I have a 10 gallon tank that has 8 painted tetra's and a female betta.... I could move my angels in with them... however I am not sure how territorial the tetra's are and they have been in this tanks for at least 6 months.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              2. I could put the 8 tetra's in my 29 gallon community tank and move the angels into the 10 gallon.     I do plan to get more angels over the next few weeks. Or at least I was planning on it.. but I hate to see them getting picked at... They are so peaceful and graceful...
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Does anyone have any other suggestions??
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              My 29 gallon also has the following fish:
                                                                                                              1 albino shark
                                                                                                              1 red tailed shark
                                                                                                              2 julii cories
                                                                                                              2 hatchet fish
                                                                                                              2 balloon belly mollies
                                                                                                              3 mickey mouse platies
                                                                                                              school of 8 small zebra danio's
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I would love to go out and buy another 10 gallon tank, but we already have 4 and I have no idea where to put another tank right now... Plus I am trying to save money to spend on the pond and yard once spring really gets here.....HOWEVER... If getting another tank is the best option I will consider it....
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              What makes good tank makes for angels??
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              HELP and thank you!
                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1445 From: reesee_ii Date: 3/23/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Mudskippers
                                                                                                              Hello. Does anyone know where I can purchase mudskippers in Southern
                                                                                                              California? And/or can you please recommend websites or breeders?

                                                                                                              Thank you.
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1446 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 3/23/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: cherry barbs
                                                                                                              My two favorite fish are cherry barbs and zebra danios. I actually new nothing about the breeds when i purchased them, i was just excited about getting fish i purchased 7 cherry barbs and 3 zebras (i know have 12 zebras) one of the larger lighter cherry's died. i have 4 orange ones and two of the IM guessing females?? the 4 males stay in one corner of my tank, and each time another fish comes into it they chase it away. should i have so little females to males? one male never leaves the corner, i had to buy tablets to feed him, i felt he was not getting any food. when other male barbs go near him his fins go so high up!! so should i get more females? thanks
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1447 From: Peggy Date: 3/23/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              It sure sounds like your 29 gallon tank is a little over crowded.  I don't know if I would have had that many fish in my 55 gallon tank when that was up and running.  I would imagine some of the fish are getting quite territorial in such close confines. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Angel Fish are not that small.  I think the rule of thumb is something like an inch of fish per gallon or something like that?  Your Angel Fish are maybe 4 inches each? The 10-12 swordtails are 1/2 inch, your sharks are probably a few inches each, add the cories, hatchet fish, mollies, platies and danio's...that does seem a bit over crowded.   If you move the angel fish to a 10 gallon I wouldn't put anything else in with them but maybe a small algae eater or catfish.  It seems to me that usually less (fish) is better.  10 gallon tanks are pretty small for bigger fish. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              In my 29 gallon I have 6 danio's, a male Betta, a cory catfish and a baby pleco (who I will need to get a bigger tank for as he grows.)  I might possibly add some more danio's or maybe a small school of neon's or some other small schooling fish but I would hesitate to add more than that.  Many fish really need to have their "own" space, when it's too crowded and they have to share space with others they can get a bit nippy.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              There are many experts on this list that may be able to offer you some better suggestions.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Hope this helps,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Peggy
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:32 AM
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Everyone is picking on my angels!

                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Help... I have 2 of the most gorgeous angel fish in my 29 gallon community tank, but all of the sudden they seem to be getting picked on by a few of my babies! ( By babies I mean the 10-12 swordtails ( both green and red velvet) that are the runts and have not grown big enough to sell back to the petstore yet. ( a couple of these "baby Bullies" are just 1/2" long)
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ALL of these fish have been in the tank for over 3 weeks together and now they decide to start with their fin nipping!     I have a couple of choices!!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              1. I have a 10 gallon tank that has 8 painted tetra's and a female betta.... I could move my angels in with them... however I am not sure how territorial the tetra's are and they have been in this tanks for at least 6 months.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              2. I could put the 8 tetra's in my 29 gallon community tank and move the angels into the 10 gallon.     I do plan to get more angels over the next few weeks. Or at least I was planning on it.. but I hate to see them getting picked at... They are so peaceful and graceful...
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Does anyone have any other suggestions??
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              My 29 gallon also has the following fish:
                                                                                                              1 albino shark
                                                                                                              1 red tailed shark
                                                                                                              2 julii cories
                                                                                                              2 hatchet fish
                                                                                                              2 balloon belly mollies
                                                                                                              3 mickey mouse platies
                                                                                                              school of 8 small zebra danio's
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I would love to go out and buy another 10 gallon tank, but we already have 4 and I have no idea where to put another tank right now... Plus I am trying to save money to spend on the pond and yard once spring really gets here.....HOWEVER... If getting another tank is the best option I will consider it....
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              What makes good tank makes for angels??
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              HELP and thank you!
                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                               

                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1448 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/23/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Gourmi's?
                                                                                                              Hey all, I've had two gourmi's in a 20 gal tank for about 3 weeks now because I thought maybe one was going to give birth soon.  Well she (?) still hasn't however she's just hanging out at the bottom of the tank while the male (?) swims around towards the top were've I noticed there are a crap load of bubbles around the edges of the tank.  The power filter kinda blows some of them to the middle surface area, but the majority of the bubbles are concentrated in the corners of the tank.  Someone told me that the male gourmi would make a bubble nest but I would had thought it would be mixed in with the plants, much in the same way frogs do. Is this just oxygen bubbles from my tank and plants or is it something to do with my gourmi's and a possible birth?  I don't want to disturb the bubbles so I havn't cleaned the gravel yet.  All my levels are A+++ perfect so I'm not to worried yet.  However I just want to know because I'm getting ready to maybe put my 5 Tiger Barbs in there from a transfer of another tank.  I obviously don't want to if I'm going to have little gourmi's soon!  Any suggestions?  I did try to take a picture of the "female" but it didn't come out very good.  They never seem to sit still for photo shoots!  LOL!  Thanks everyone!

                                                                                                              Take care,

                                                                                                              Edward
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1449 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/23/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cherry barbs
                                                                                                              The very bright red cherry barbs are the males. I've read they can be somewhat timid...in a small tank or large tank without many plants they do better in pairs. Larger groups are ok with more vegetation.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I think they're very pretty but I've had bad luck with them. The first pair I got at PetSmart. They were tiny, showed ick the following day, and both died the day after. I bought another pair and the male mysteriously died after a couple days. One more pair (from another lfs)...I found the male with pop-eye one night last week and by the morning he was dead. The female is doing well, she's in a tetra/panda cory tank so I think I'll leave her alone for a while.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Theresa
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 1:13 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cherry barbs

                                                                                                              My two favorite fish are cherry barbs and zebra danios. I actually new nothing about the breeds when i purchased them, i was just excited about getting fish i purchased 7 cherry barbs and 3 zebras (i know have 12 zebras) one of the larger lighter cherry's died. i have 4 orange ones and two of the IM guessing females?? the 4 males stay in one corner of my tank, and each time another fish comes into it they chase it away. should i have so little females to males? one male never leaves the corner, i had to buy tablets to feed him, i felt he was not getting any food. when other male barbs go near him his fins go so high up!! so should i get more females? thanks
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1450 From: ricboese911 Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: needing help
                                                                                                              We have lost 3 fish in the last couple of weeks. We test the water
                                                                                                              weekly and do weekly water changes. We have no obvious markings on
                                                                                                              the fish that have died but they start swimming with thier head to
                                                                                                              the bottom of the tank and act like they lose balance. Any Ideas what
                                                                                                              is wrong with them? Could it be a parasite and if so what can be done
                                                                                                              about it? Thanks Ric
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1451 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: How can I tell when mama fish is ready?
                                                                                                              I have a slew of pregnant fish - 2 mollies and numerous platties.
                                                                                                              Because of the sheer number, I can't separate them all in a breeder
                                                                                                              and wait it out- but I could do so with individual fish if I could
                                                                                                              tell when they were coming due... are there any signs I should be
                                                                                                              looking for?

                                                                                                              I have put in lots of plants to try and protect the fry if they come
                                                                                                              unexpectedly...
                                                                                                              thanks so much.
                                                                                                              t
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1452 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > My 29 gallon also has the following fish:
                                                                                                              > 1 albino shark
                                                                                                              > 1 red tailed shark
                                                                                                              > 2 julii cories
                                                                                                              > 2 hatchet fish
                                                                                                              > 2 balloon belly mollies
                                                                                                              > 3 mickey mouse platies
                                                                                                              > school of 8 small zebra danio's


                                                                                                              that doesn't sound like too many fish to me - although I am surprised
                                                                                                              you've been able to keep a shark with just about anything peaceful..

                                                                                                              I had no problems with my angels until I got 2 black skirt tetras-
                                                                                                              they've done a number on their fins. mollies, platies and danios were
                                                                                                              with mine and never touched them. (also had a female betta that left
                                                                                                              them alone) Is it possible that your growing fish aren't getting
                                                                                                              enough protein? Just like a human baby, they may eat through the
                                                                                                              day.. If you don't already have them, I'd put in a bunch of live
                                                                                                              plants - maybe your fish will pick at them instead of the angels. Or
                                                                                                              maybe stick a tubifex cube in the tank and they can snack on that at
                                                                                                              will. Good luck
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1453 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: newbie and apology
                                                                                                              why would you have to separate the bettas if they are getting along
                                                                                                              fine? I thought they were considered one of the best egg-layers to
                                                                                                              breed?
                                                                                                              As far as the angels, I have 2 angels with my female betta and never
                                                                                                              had any problems until I added 2 black skirts.. they've done quite a
                                                                                                              bit of damage. As long as the other fish are peaceful, I would say
                                                                                                              you probably have a good shot of keeping the angels in a community
                                                                                                              tank - just avoid over-crowding because they do get territorial/


                                                                                                              -
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1454 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
                                                                                                              why not run an add in the newspaper? If you want to give them away,
                                                                                                              lots of papers won't charge you for adds if your not charging. Or
                                                                                                              post signs at grocery store, laundromat, local college, rec center,
                                                                                                              etc. You can give them away or sell them by showing your price vs the
                                                                                                              stores. Not likely to make a fortune, but selling them off can help
                                                                                                              make your aquarium a little more self-sufficient
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1455 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                               Thank you so much for the suggestions.    I didn't hear from anyone in the group so I ended up calling the owner of the LFS that I deal with and he advised me to put the angels in with the painted tetra's.... Sooooo  I did and all is peaceful for everyone now....
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              The angels are VERY small still.. just 1/2" high at the most....
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              As far as the babies go.. I have no idea what their problem is.... They aren't even big enough yet for me to sex them, but they are fiesty...
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Both sharks.... ( the albino and red tailed) are 2 of the most peaceful fish in any of my tanks.. They are bottom feeders and actually hang around with the cories on the bottom.  They are really enjoyable to watch.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I do have live plants in all of my tanks. The tank with babies gets fed twice a day and all of my other tanks get fed every other day on the advice of my LFS owner.... I have NEVER <knock on wood> lost any fish, had serious ammonia spikes, or had a problem with mixing fish prior to this.  Our local FS owner is great... He actually keeps cards on all of his regular customers, including tank size, water checks, fish added, any lost fish or problems etc. He is so helpful with our tanks and fish and certainly hope he stays around for a while.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              As far as over stocking goes... Many people think the tanks are over stocked, but I go by what the FS Owner says and how my water and fish react.    He has not steered me wrong yet, but of course it seems like when I need him, its his day off and his help is not nearly as helpful as he is.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Thanks so much for your time and advice
                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Date: 03/24/04 16:45:32
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > My 29 gallon also has the following fish:
                                                                                                              > 1 albino shark
                                                                                                              > 1 red tailed shark
                                                                                                              > 2 julii cories
                                                                                                              > 2 hatchet fish
                                                                                                              > 2 balloon belly mollies
                                                                                                              > 3 mickey mouse platies
                                                                                                              > school of 8 small zebra danio's


                                                                                                              that doesn't sound like too many fish to me - although I am surprised
                                                                                                              you've been able to keep a shark with just about anything peaceful..

                                                                                                              I had no problems with my angels until I got 2 black skirt tetras-
                                                                                                              they've done a number on their fins.  mollies, platies and danios were
                                                                                                              with mine and never touched them. (also had a female betta that left
                                                                                                              them alone)  Is it possible that your growing fish aren't getting
                                                                                                              enough protein?  Just like a human baby, they may eat through the
                                                                                                              day.. If you don't already have them, I'd put in a bunch of live
                                                                                                              plants - maybe your fish will pick at them instead of the angels.  Or
                                                                                                              maybe stick a tubifex cube in the tank and they can snack on that at
                                                                                                              will.   Good luck


                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1456 From: Sarah Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                              I Agree about the sharks. I have always keep one in my tank usually the redtailed but i fancied a change so when for the red finned this time around. He lives happily with all the fish including BABY mollies and guppies.....lol 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Regards
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Date: 24/03/2004 21:56:40
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               Thank you so much for the suggestions.    I didn't hear from anyone in the group so I ended up calling the owner of the LFS that I deal with and he advised me to put the angels in with the painted tetra's.... Sooooo  I did and all is peaceful for everyone now....
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              The angels are VERY small still.. just 1/2" high at the most....
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              As far as the babies go.. I have no idea what their problem is.... They aren't even big enough yet for me to sex them, but they are fiesty...
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Both sharks.... ( the albino and red tailed) are 2 of the most peaceful fish in any of my tanks.. They are bottom feeders and actually hang around with the cories on the bottom.  They are really enjoyable to watch.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I do have live plants in all of my tanks. The tank with babies gets fed twice a day and all of my other tanks get fed every other day on the advice of my LFS owner.... I have NEVER <knock on wood> lost any fish, had serious ammonia spikes, or had a problem with mixing fish prior to this.  Our local FS owner is great... He actually keeps cards on all of his regular customers, including tank size, water checks, fish added, any lost fish or problems etc. He is so helpful with our tanks and fish and certainly hope he stays around for a while.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              As far as over stocking goes... Many people think the tanks are over stocked, but I go by what the FS Owner says and how my water and fish react.    He has not steered me wrong yet, but of course it seems like when I need him, its his day off and his help is not nearly as helpful as he is.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Thanks so much for your time and advice
                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Date: 03/24/04 16:45:32
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > My 29 gallon also has the following fish:
                                                                                                              > 1 albino shark
                                                                                                              > 1 red tailed shark
                                                                                                              > 2 julii cories
                                                                                                              > 2 hatchet fish
                                                                                                              > 2 balloon belly mollies
                                                                                                              > 3 mickey mouse platies
                                                                                                              > school of 8 small zebra danio's


                                                                                                              that doesn't sound like too many fish to me - although I am surprised
                                                                                                              you've been able to keep a shark with just about anything peaceful..

                                                                                                              I had no problems with my angels until I got 2 black skirt tetras-
                                                                                                              they've done a number on their fins.  mollies, platies and danios were
                                                                                                              with mine and never touched them. (also had a female betta that left
                                                                                                              them alone)  Is it possible that your growing fish aren't getting
                                                                                                              enough protein?  Just like a human baby, they may eat through the
                                                                                                              day.. If you don't already have them, I'd put in a bunch of live
                                                                                                              plants - maybe your fish will pick at them instead of the angels.  Or
                                                                                                              maybe stick a tubifex cube in the tank and they can snack on that at
                                                                                                              will.   Good luck


                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1457 From: dolph72.geo Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
                                                                                                              Another way is to post to some of the groups letting people know
                                                                                                              your general location. I am sure quite a few people who use these
                                                                                                              groups would like some extra variety in their tanks. I know I would
                                                                                                              give some babies away to fellow fishgroupers.

                                                                                                              Randy Clark
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1458 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                              Thank you for the advice.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Date: 03/23/04 19:08:35
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Everyone is picking on my angels!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              It sure sounds like your 29 gallon tank is a little over crowded.  I don't know if I would have had that many fish in my 55 gallon tank when that was up and running.  I would imagine some of the fish are getting quite territorial in such close confines. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Angel Fish are not that small.  I think the rule of thumb is something like an inch of fish per gallon or something like that?  Your Angel Fish are maybe 4 inches each? The 10-12 swordtails are 1/2 inch, your sharks are probably a few inches each, add the cories, hatchet fish, mollies, platies and danio's...that does seem a bit over crowded.   If you move the angel fish to a 10 gallon I wouldn't put anything else in with them but maybe a small algae eater or catfish.  It seems to me that usually less (fish) is better.  10 gallon tanks are pretty small for bigger fish. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              In my 29 gallon I have 6 danio's, a male Betta, a cory catfish and a baby pleco (who I will need to get a bigger tank for as he grows.)  I might possibly add some more danio's or maybe a small school of neon's or some other small schooling fish but I would hesitate to add more than that.  Many fish really need to have their "own" space, when it's too crowded and they have to share space with others they can get a bit nippy.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              There are many experts on this list that may be able to offer you some better suggestions.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Hope this helps,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Peggy
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:32 AM
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Everyone is picking on my angels!

                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Help... I have 2 of the most gorgeous angel fish in my 29 gallon community tank, but all of the sudden they seem to be getting picked on by a few of my babies! ( By babies I mean the 10-12 swordtails ( both green and red velvet) that are the runts and have not grown big enough to sell back to the petstore yet. ( a couple of these "baby Bullies" are just 1/2" long)
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ALL of these fish have been in the tank for over 3 weeks together and now they decide to start with their fin nipping!     I have a couple of choices!!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              1. I have a 10 gallon tank that has 8 painted tetra's and a female betta.... I could move my angels in with them... however I am not sure how territorial the tetra's are and they have been in this tanks for at least 6 months.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              2. I could put the 8 tetra's in my 29 gallon community tank and move the angels into the 10 gallon.     I do plan to get more angels over the next few weeks. Or at least I was planning on it.. but I hate to see them getting picked at... They are so peaceful and graceful...
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Does anyone have any other suggestions??
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              My 29 gallon also has the following fish:
                                                                                                              1 albino shark
                                                                                                              1 red tailed shark
                                                                                                              2 julii cories
                                                                                                              2 hatchet fish
                                                                                                              2 balloon belly mollies
                                                                                                              3 mickey mouse platies
                                                                                                              school of 8 small zebra danio's
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I would love to go out and buy another 10 gallon tank, but we already have 4 and I have no idea where to put another tank right now... Plus I am trying to save money to spend on the pond and yard once spring really gets here.....HOWEVER... If getting another tank is the best option I will consider it....
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              What makes good tank makes for angels??
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              HELP and thank you!
                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                               

                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1459 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              As long as you have males and females together your live bearers will just keep on having more babies and more babies and more babies.... LOL       I have a guppy that has at least 20 babies every 2 weeks... <so much for the once a month theory> LOL
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              You might want to contact the local elementary schools..... Some classrooms love to take in baby fish and watch them grow!
                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1460 From: budnkota Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Advice for a novice?
                                                                                                              SKIP THE GOLDFISH! Go with a betta. A little more expensive, but
                                                                                                              beautiful and pretty resiliant. Very easy to care for.

                                                                                                              You can get lots beautiful fish for very cheap. And if you watch the
                                                                                                              classified ads, often FREE. Also, if you go with some platties and/or
                                                                                                              mollies, your child can also have the thrill of seeing baby fish as
                                                                                                              they are easy breeders

                                                                                                              I work with a special needs man, and recently gave him my old aquarium
                                                                                                              and bought him some fish... I got him some danios (3 for a $1), some
                                                                                                              red coral platties (99 cents) and a male betta that he selected.
                                                                                                              I set it up next to his bed so he could watch them as he goes to sleep
                                                                                                              at night - but ran into an unexpected problem the day I bought him the
                                                                                                              betta - he wouldn't leave the room! He lay there for 3 hours watching
                                                                                                              it, and tracing his finger along the tank. First thing he does after
                                                                                                              I pick him up from day programming is ask if he can feed his fishies.
                                                                                                              I have not seen a single serious behavior from him since he's had
                                                                                                              the fish - they are an enormous relaxation tool. It was the single
                                                                                                              smartest thing I have ever done for him. Hopefully it will be good
                                                                                                              for your child too.
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1461 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              I'm sorry, is it a rubber lip? I've seen no rubber mouths for sale. is
                                                                                                              he short, wide mouthed, and wide headed as well and a very short, almost
                                                                                                              square tail?

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1462 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Snail problem

                                                                                                              Hi,
                                                                                                              I am new to the group and need some advise.
                                                                                                              I have a small electric blue crayfish in a 10 gallon tank.  I have had her for going on three years now.  I a made the mistake of putting a live plant in the tank that, in retrospect, had snail eggs on it.  Now I have an explosion of small snails.
                                                                                                              She is eating quite a few of them but they are reproducing faster than she can keep up.  My local fish store suggested loaches to be put in the tank.  They suggested one specific kind that would probably be able to avoid being eaten but have not been able to find any in my area.  Yoyo loaches (Sp?)
                                                                                                              My question is....
                                                                                                              What other options are there?  Does anyone have any suggestions??
                                                                                                              I am planning on adding another tank and plan on shuffling everyone/everything around to accomodate and don't want to spread the snails to the other tanks.
                                                                                                              I have had my three tanks set up for over three years now and this has been my first snail problem.
                                                                                                              Considering myself lucky. 

                                                                                                              Michelle in PDX
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1463 From: Peggy Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Well, it said rubber-mouth on the tank but you know how pet shops have a tendency to make up their own names sometimes?  I think that be what may have happened.  He looks sort of whitish-browish, right now he's very small, only about an inch long, maybe a little bit more.  He sticks to the side of the tank and on ornamental stuff inside the tank with his mouth.  He doesn't seem very out-going at this point, but I've only had him about 3 days, and I really don't know very much about pleco's.  From what I found on the Internet it seems like he could possibly grow to be 12 inches long or longer?? 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Any help is appreciated!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Peggy 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:20 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Pleco question...

                                                                                                              I'm sorry, is it a rubber lip?  I've seen no rubber mouths for sale.  is
                                                                                                              he short, wide mouthed, and wide headed as well and a very short, almost
                                                                                                              square tail?

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!


                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1464 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Snail problem
                                                                                                              Hi and welcome,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Different loaches will help get rid of the snails. This is a good site with loach info http://www.loaches.com/species_index.html
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Most of them like to be in the company of their own kind. Yoyos will grow to ~4" Zebras (botia striata) to around 3" Chain or dwarf loach (Botia sidthimunki) is smaller but I'm not sure about their reputation with snails. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I breed snails for my puffers. One thing you can also try to putting a few pieces of lettuce in the tank. The snails love it and soon there will be a bunch on each piece. It would be a slow and not permanent method of removal.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Theresa
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:53 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Snail problem


                                                                                                              Hi,
                                                                                                              I am new to the group and need some advise.
                                                                                                              I have a small electric blue crayfish in a 10 gallon tank.  I have had her for going on three years now.  I a made the mistake of putting a live plant in the tank that, in retrospect, had snail eggs on it.  Now I have an explosion of small snails.
                                                                                                              She is eating quite a few of them but they are reproducing faster than she can keep up.  My local fish store suggested loaches to be put in the tank.  They suggested one specific kind that would probably be able to avoid being eaten but have not been able to find any in my area.  Yoyo loaches (Sp?)
                                                                                                              My question is....
                                                                                                              What other options are there?  Does anyone have any suggestions??
                                                                                                              I am planning on adding another tank and plan on shuffling everyone/everything around to accomodate and don't want to spread the snails to the other tanks.
                                                                                                              I have had my three tanks set up for over three years now and this has been my first snail problem.
                                                                                                              Considering myself lucky. 

                                                                                                              Michelle in PDX
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1465 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Probably already answered but rubber lips only get 3-4 inches.

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1466 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Snail problem
                                                                                                              clown loaches will eat the snails, as will bubblegum parrots and many
                                                                                                              other omniverous fish. don't worry about the fish being eaten, unless
                                                                                                              they're sick and/or small and slow. i have a 6" blue crayfish and he
                                                                                                              has to hide from my fish which aren't even all that aggressive. i have
                                                                                                              a small school of brilliant raspboras that he hasn't even noticed, as
                                                                                                              well as a whole lot of fry, and he leaves them alone. just make sure
                                                                                                              the crayfish has an algae wafer to itself and it'll be ok...
                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                              On Mar 24, 2004, at 4:53 PM, Michelle in PDX wrote:

                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Hi,
                                                                                                              > I am new to the group and need some advise.
                                                                                                              > I have a small electric blue crayfish in a 10 gallon tank.  I have had
                                                                                                              > her for going on three years now.  I a made the mistake of putting a
                                                                                                              > live plant in the tank that, in retrospect, had snail eggs on it.  Now
                                                                                                              > I have an explosion of small snails.
                                                                                                              > She is eating quite a few of them but they are reproducing faster than
                                                                                                              > she can keep up.  My local fish store suggested loaches to be put in
                                                                                                              > the tank.  They suggested one specific kind that would probably be
                                                                                                              > able to avoid being eaten but have not been able to find any in my
                                                                                                              > area.  Yoyo loaches (Sp?)
                                                                                                              > My question is....
                                                                                                              > What other options are there?  Does anyone have any suggestions??
                                                                                                              > I am planning on adding another tank and plan on shuffling
                                                                                                              > everyone/everything around to accomodate and don't want to spread the
                                                                                                              > snails to the other tanks.
                                                                                                              > I have had my three tanks set up for over three years now and this has
                                                                                                              > been my first snail problem.
                                                                                                              > Considering myself lucky. 
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Michelle in PDX
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >


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                                                                                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1467 From: rockypeeps2001 Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Black Ghost Knifefish 911!!
                                                                                                              My BlackGhost Kinvefish has suffered major injuries. This afternoon
                                                                                                              I found my lobster with the ghost in his claws. I quickly seperated
                                                                                                              them and took the lobster to the LFS. II notived the white tail has
                                                                                                              been chewed and damaged. He isnt swimming very much, laying on his
                                                                                                              side. He looks bad. He hasnt eaten eithier. I dont know what to do.
                                                                                                              I am thinking of getting him some Mela-Fix and going from there any
                                                                                                              one else have any ideas?

                                                                                                              thanks Pat
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1468 From: dave Date: 3/24/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knifefish 911!!
                                                                                                              --- In
                                                                                                              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "rockypeeps2001"
                                                                                                              <rockypeeps2001@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > My BlackGhost Kinvefish has suffered major injuries. This afternoon
                                                                                                              > I found my lobster with the ghost in his claws. I quickly seperated
                                                                                                              > them and took the lobster to the LFS. II notived the white tail has
                                                                                                              > been chewed and damaged. He isnt swimming very much, laying on his
                                                                                                              > side. He looks bad. He hasnt eaten eithier. I dont know what to do.
                                                                                                              > I am thinking of getting him some Mela-Fix and going from there any
                                                                                                              > one else have any ideas?
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > thanks Pat

                                                                                                              Your lobster/ crayfish is NOT a community species and should be in
                                                                                                              it own tank with only feeder fish
                                                                                                              mela fix and clean water are your best bet just watch for any signs
                                                                                                              of infection -Dave
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1469 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knifefish 911!!
                                                                                                              not necessarily, it completely depends on the temperment of the
                                                                                                              animal... as i've said, i have a 6" crayfish who's completely docile,
                                                                                                              if anything intimidated by fish as small as danios.
                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                              On Mar 25, 2004, at 2:27 AM, dave wrote:

                                                                                                              > Your lobster/ crayfish is NOT a community species and should be in
                                                                                                              > it own tank with only feeder fish
                                                                                                              > mela fix and clean water are your best bet just watch for any signs
                                                                                                              > of infection -Dave
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                              web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1470 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP?
                                                                                                              Thanks, Kelly. Believe it or not, when the first group of fry was born, the very first thing I did was talk to my daughter's teachers, explaining that it would be a few weeks before the babies were ready to go, so that gave them just enough time to get a tank and get it started. (My daughter is in kindergarten.) The teachers said they'd love to have some of the fish for a classroom tank ... and then never got the tank. So THEY dropped the ball. *rolls eyes* And school lets out at the end of May here, so I won't be giving away any of the babies.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              There is one of the new group that has survived by hanging out in one of the plants or under the heater (with my sole baby platy) ... and the other day one of the mollies had even more babies, but none of that group survived. I saw a LOT of them stillborn on the bottom of the tank, and they were quickly disposed of by the oldest group of fry. (you haven't seen anything until you've seen one baby mollie trying hard to eat another ... all you could see was the head hanging out of its mouth.)
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              With my current fry count somewhere around 15 (they're still a bit small and fast for me to get an accurate count), I think I should be able to keep them in the tank if I keep REALLY close eye on water quality etc. It's got more fish than I would *like* to keep in the tank, but I've got nowhere else to send them. I don't know anyone else who keeps tropical freshwater aquariums, or keeps aquariums at all for that matter. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              The fry are still a bit small for me to be able to sex them, so I'll have to wait until they are bigger and then try and figure out what to do with the males. I have a smaller (about 1 1/2 gallons) tank that I used for a fry tank when this first group was born, and that I plan to use for "hospital" tank if (heavens forbid) one of the fish gets sick. So I might move the males to there once I can distinguish which are male. But I've seen no ill effects so far of having all of the fish in the 15 gallon, and I don't have a heater that will work properly in the small tank. It's really TOO small for the heater to be able to regulate at all without me sitting right on top of it and checking temp every five minutes. So I don't want to HAVE to transfer any fish to the small tank. It's just too hard to keep going constantly. Financial situation doesn't allow me to get another tank set up, so that's out.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Date: 03/24/04 19:56:58
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP??
                                                                                                                
                                                                                                              You might want to contact the local elementary schools..... Some classrooms love to take in baby fish and watch them grow!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1471 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: How can I tell when mama fish is ready?
                                                                                                              LOL I wish I could tell you. I keep mollies and platies, and I can't seem to catch any of them before they give birth. I always catch them several hours AFTER the fact. Whoops. Guess it isn't as easy as I'd read. Here are some links, maybe they will help you more than they helped me. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Date: 03/24/04 16:37:36
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] How can I tell when mama fish is ready?
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I have a slew of pregnant fish - 2 mollies and numerous platties.
                                                                                                              Because of the sheer number, I can't separate them all in a breeder
                                                                                                              and wait it out- but I could do so with individual fish if I could
                                                                                                              tell when they were coming due...  are there any signs I should be
                                                                                                              looking for?

                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1472 From: Julie Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: newbie and apology
                                                                                                                  Because the one of the ladies at the fish store said that they couldn't be kept together.  She said that they might get along now, but they would fight.  Nothing so far and it has been nearly a month.  I know that could be jumping the gun a little, but right now, if it aint broke, I aint fixin it.
                                                                                                                  The angels are going to have to wait now.  DH took kids to fish store this past weekend at let them pick out (with a lot of help) what fish to put in there.  So now there are 3 white mollies (don't know if that is the actual name of them) and 2 dalmation lyretail mollies.  Everyone seems happy, but if I add any more, it will only be a couple of clown loaches.  Somewhere along the line we picked up snails.  I pulled 4 out a couple of days ago and haven't seen any since, but I know they almost have to be there. : )
                                                                                                              julie
                                                                                                              Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                              I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: budnkota
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              why would you have to separate the bettas if they are getting along
                                                                                                              fine?  I thought they were considered one of the best egg-layers to
                                                                                                              breed? 
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1473 From: Julie Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: newbie and apology
                                                                                                              I realilzed after I wrote this, that I misspoke.  It isn't clown loaches for snails, but now I have forgotten what I wanted to get.  Must be the pregnancy hormones making me stupid.  I will have to research again to find out what I was going to get...... Like I need more excuses to surf the net and go to the LFS.  : )
                                                                                                              julie
                                                                                                              Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                              I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: Julie

                                                                                                              mollies.  Everyone seems happy, but if I add any more, it will only be a couple of clown loaches.  Somewhere along the line we picked up snails.  I pulled 4 out a couple of days ago and haven't seen any since, but I know they almost have to be there. : )
                                                                                                              julie
                                                                                                              Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                              I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1474 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opinion question..
                                                                                                              I only carry enough bettas to last a week in my store. If they aren't
                                                                                                              sold in that week, the remaining fish are put in the main system where
                                                                                                              they are housed with community fish until they're sold. I do this for 2
                                                                                                              reasons, it illustrates to customers that the bowls are to survive in
                                                                                                              until sale, not live in, and that as a hobbiest, I feel it's cruel to
                                                                                                              keep them in small containers for any length of significant time. I
                                                                                                              occasionally have customers storm out because I wouldn't sell them a
                                                                                                              betta for their bowl, too damn bad, but they usually make the right
                                                                                                              decision and buy a small starter kit, heater and all or add them to
                                                                                                              they're community tank. Of couse shock is expressed cause "all the
                                                                                                              other stores say it's impossible to keep with other fish" and then I
                                                                                                              just point to the betta swimming in the tank next to the betta display
                                                                                                              along with guppies, tetras and others swimming quite nicely.

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1475 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              When I have more time, I'll try to find some photos of the rubberlip.
                                                                                                              Got to get ready for work now though.

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1476 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP?
                                                                                                              since many of us have excess fry, perhaps we would host a list on the
                                                                                                              site with our locations and the type of fry we have for trading?
                                                                                                              might be a good solution for some of us....
                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                              On Mar 25, 2004, at 7:43 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                                                                                              > Thanks, Kelly. Believe it or not, when the first group of fry was
                                                                                                              > born, the very first thing I did was talk to my daughter's teachers,
                                                                                                              > explaining that it would be a few weeks before the babies were ready
                                                                                                              > to go, so that gave them just enough time to get a tank and get it
                                                                                                              > started. (My daughter is in kindergarten.) The teachers said they'd
                                                                                                              > love to have some of the fish for a classroom tank ... and then never
                                                                                                              > got the tank. So THEY dropped the ball. *rolls eyes* And school lets
                                                                                                              > out at the end of May here, so I won't be giving away any of the
                                                                                                              > babies.
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > There is one of the new group that has survived by hanging out in one
                                                                                                              > of the plants or under the heater (with my sole baby platy) ...
                                                                                                              > and the other day one of the mollies had even more babies, but none of
                                                                                                              > that group survived. I saw a LOT of them stillborn on the bottom of
                                                                                                              > the tank, and they were quickly disposed of by the oldest group of
                                                                                                              > fry. (you haven't seen anything until you've seen one baby mollie
                                                                                                              > trying hard to eat another ... all you could see was the head hanging
                                                                                                              > out of its mouth.)
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > With my current fry count somewhere around 15 (they're still a bit
                                                                                                              > small and fast for me to get an accurate count), I think I should be
                                                                                                              > able to keep them in the tank if I keep REALLY close eye on water
                                                                                                              > quality etc. It's got more fish than I would *like* to keep in the
                                                                                                              > tank, but I've got nowhere else to send them. I don't know anyone else
                                                                                                              > who keeps tropical freshwater aquariums, or keeps aquariums at all for
                                                                                                              > that matter. 
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > The fry are still a bit small for me to be able to sex them, so I'll
                                                                                                              > have to wait until they are bigger and then try and figure out what to
                                                                                                              > do with the males. I have a smaller (about 1 1/2 gallons) tank that I
                                                                                                              > used for a fry tank when this first group was born, and that I plan to
                                                                                                              > use for "hospital" tank if (heavens forbid) one of the fish gets sick.
                                                                                                              > So I might move the males to there once I can distinguish which are
                                                                                                              > male. But I've seen no ill effects so far of having all of the fish in
                                                                                                              > the 15 gallon, and I don't have a heater that will work properly in
                                                                                                              > the small tank. It's really TOO small for the heater to be able to
                                                                                                              > regulate at all without me sitting right on top of it and checking
                                                                                                              > temp every five minutes. So I don't want to HAVE to transfer any fish
                                                                                                              > to the small tank. It's just too hard to keep going constantly.
                                                                                                              > Financial situation doesn't allow me to get another tank set up, so
                                                                                                              > that's out.
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > Erin
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > Date: 03/24/04 19:56:58
                                                                                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: any way to get
                                                                                                              > livebearers to STOP??
                                                                                                              >   
                                                                                                              > You might want to contact the local elementary schools..... Some
                                                                                                              > classrooms love to take in baby fish and watch them grow!
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                              > <yhoo0104_b_300250a.gif>
                                                                                                              > <l.gif>
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                              religion....
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1477 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Free Starter Kits for Teachers! ( was - Re: any way to get livebear
                                                                                                              Free Starter Kits for Teachers! HBH gives educators free equipment to
                                                                                                              teach the children science with the wonderful hobby of fishkeeping.
                                                                                                              My mom is a school teacher and recently signed up on the website and
                                                                                                              recieved a large "Betta Bowl", water conditioner, decorations, food,
                                                                                                              instruction manual & a check for $3.00 to purchase the fish.

                                                                                                              just goto the link and scroll down to Teachers Aids

                                                                                                              http://www.hbhnet.com

                                                                                                              "HBH's new teacher packets are designed to introduce children to
                                                                                                              basic fish keeping practices and teach children about aquatic
                                                                                                              ecosystems. Curriculum is broken up into different levels for the
                                                                                                              beginner and advanced. Our teacher kits are designed to be as easy to
                                                                                                              set up as filling a jar with water. Each kit will center on a bowl
                                                                                                              type environment. This year HBH has decided to focus on the Betta.
                                                                                                              Our curriculum covers concepts both surrounding the fish and his
                                                                                                              environment. They are designed for children between first and sixth
                                                                                                              grade. This kit includes: An HBH Betta Lagoon complete with food,
                                                                                                              Bowl Prep bowl conditioner, plant, gravel, scrubbing pad, an HBH
                                                                                                              Betta Splendens T-shirt, curriculum packet, and a certificate of
                                                                                                              value for a Betta. This is all provided at no cost to you. Sometimes
                                                                                                              we run out of kits. If that becomes the case you will be put on a
                                                                                                              waiting list and mailed your kit when it becomes available."




                                                                                                              > On Mar 25, 2004, at 7:43 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > > Thanks, Kelly. Believe it or not, when the first group of fry was
                                                                                                              > > born, the very first thing I did was talk to my daughter's
                                                                                                              teachers,
                                                                                                              > > explaining that it would be a few weeks before the babies were
                                                                                                              ready
                                                                                                              > > to go, so that gave them just enough time to get a tank and get
                                                                                                              it
                                                                                                              > > started. (My daughter is in kindergarten.) The teachers said
                                                                                                              they'd
                                                                                                              > > love to have some of the fish for a classroom tank ... and then
                                                                                                              never
                                                                                                              > > got the tank. So THEY dropped the ball. *rolls eyes* And
                                                                                                              school
                                                                                                              lets
                                                                                                              > > out at the end of May here, so I won't be giving away any of
                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                              > > babies.
                                                                                                              > >  
                                                                                                              > > There is one of the new group that has survived by hanging out
                                                                                                              in
                                                                                                              one
                                                                                                              > > of the plants or under the heater (with my sole baby platy) ...
                                                                                                              > > and the other day one of the mollies had even more babies,
                                                                                                              but
                                                                                                              none of
                                                                                                              > > that group survived. I saw a LOT of them stillborn on the bottom
                                                                                                              of
                                                                                                              > > the tank, and they were quickly disposed of by the oldest group
                                                                                                              of
                                                                                                              > > fry. (you haven't seen anything until you've seen one baby mollie
                                                                                                              > > trying hard to eat another ... all you could see was the head
                                                                                                              hanging
                                                                                                              > > out of its mouth.)
                                                                                                              > >  
                                                                                                              > > With my current fry count somewhere around 15 (they're still a
                                                                                                              bit
                                                                                                              > > small and fast for me to get an accurate count), I think I
                                                                                                              should
                                                                                                              be
                                                                                                              > > able to keep them in the tank if I keep REALLY close eye on water
                                                                                                              > > quality etc. It's got more fish than I would *like* to keep in
                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                              > > tank, but I've got nowhere else to send them. I don't know anyone
                                                                                                              else
                                                                                                              > > who keeps tropical freshwater aquariums, or keeps aquariums at
                                                                                                              all for
                                                                                                              > > that matter. 
                                                                                                              > >  
                                                                                                              > > The fry are still a bit small for me to be able to sex them, so
                                                                                                              I'll
                                                                                                              > > have to wait until they are bigger and then try and figure out
                                                                                                              what to
                                                                                                              > > do with the males. I have a smaller (about 1 1/2 gallons) tank
                                                                                                              that I
                                                                                                              > > used for a fry tank when this first group was born, and that I
                                                                                                              plan to
                                                                                                              > > use for "hospital" tank if (heavens forbid) one of the fish gets
                                                                                                              sick.
                                                                                                              > > So I might move the males to there once I can distinguish which
                                                                                                              are
                                                                                                              > > male. But I've seen no ill effects so far of having all of the
                                                                                                              fish in
                                                                                                              > > the 15 gallon, and I don't have a heater that will work properly
                                                                                                              in
                                                                                                              > > the small tank. It's really TOO small for the heater to be able
                                                                                                              to
                                                                                                              > > regulate at all without me sitting right on top of it and
                                                                                                              checking
                                                                                                              > > temp every five minutes. So I don't want to HAVE to transfer any
                                                                                                              fish
                                                                                                              > > to the small tank. It's just too hard to keep going
                                                                                                              constantly.
                                                                                                              > > Financial situation doesn't allow me to get another tank set up,
                                                                                                              so
                                                                                                              > > that's out.
                                                                                                              > >  
                                                                                                              > > Erin
                                                                                                              > >  
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1478 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Free Starter Kits for Teachers! ( was - Re: any way to get livebear
                                                                                                              Thank you so much for this link I 'm a homeschooler of my 12 year old
                                                                                                              son and I think he will just love getting this beta bowl and taking
                                                                                                              care of his OWN fish ---
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1479 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: any way to get livebearers to STOP?
                                                                                                              Hi all,

                                                                                                              "perhaps we would host a list on the site with our locations and the
                                                                                                              type of fry we have for trading"

                                                                                                              Thanks for the idea, here is my info to add to the list,

                                                                                                              I have lots of Mollies - Silver, Black, White, Marbled & Dalmation
                                                                                                              (some are Minature - only 1/2 inch in size at 7 months old);
                                                                                                              Swordtails - Marigold, Red, Neon? (Silver w/ red & green stripes);
                                                                                                              Platies - Sunset Fire, Red, Mickey Mouse, and some rare Mickey Mouse
                                                                                                              Sunset Fire Swordtails.
                                                                                                              I usually sell the extras to the LFS for $2.00 each in Store Credit,
                                                                                                              but I'm getting overcrowded and they are not big enough to sell
                                                                                                              yet. I have a limited variety of plants, lots of extra Hornwort,
                                                                                                              Duckweed, Java Moss, Lotus Lillys & Java Fern.
                                                                                                              I am in Livermore CA, on the Eastern edge of the San Francisco Bay
                                                                                                              Area. I'm not interested in shipping the fish, but am willing to
                                                                                                              travel within an hours drive, I travel to Berkeley & Oakland
                                                                                                              regularly. Anybody in the area that would like to trade plants or
                                                                                                              fish, please feel free to email me - MassageTherapist@...

                                                                                                              Thanks again for all your help in making this the 5th largest Yahoo
                                                                                                              Aquarium group.


                                                                                                              Aaron R. Martin, cmt ~ Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

                                                                                                              got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

                                                                                                              stop by and see ~ membership is free!


                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                              <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > since many of us have excess fry, perhaps we would host a list on
                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                              > site with our locations and the type of fry we have for trading?
                                                                                                              > might be a good solution for some of us....
                                                                                                              > amalthea
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1480 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: needing help
                                                                                                              Hi Ric,

                                                                                                              Sounds like Swim Bladder Disease, just a guess.

                                                                                                              What kind of fish? How old? What are you feeding them?

                                                                                                              Aaron

                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "ricboese911"
                                                                                                              <ric911@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                              > We have lost 3 fish in the last couple of weeks. We test the water
                                                                                                              > weekly and do weekly water changes. We have no obvious markings on
                                                                                                              > the fish that have died but they start swimming with thier head to
                                                                                                              > the bottom of the tank and act like they lose balance. Any Ideas
                                                                                                              what
                                                                                                              > is wrong with them? Could it be a parasite and if so what can be
                                                                                                              done
                                                                                                              > about it? Thanks Ric
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1481 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/25/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: platy fry available
                                                                                                              Hello.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I have ~20 platy fry born March 11. I'm unsure of the parents but my current platy stock consists of the following:
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              red tux
                                                                                                              blue dawn
                                                                                                              red wag
                                                                                                              sunset
                                                                                                              gold twinbar
                                                                                                              sunbust wag
                                                                                                              calico
                                                                                                              pineapple
                                                                                                              red top blue mickey mouse
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I'm willing to trade for live plants or to negotiate a price. Not willing to ship but I live in Germantown MD.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I plan to start breeding Endler's in the next few weeks. I already have 4 very good looking males.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Theresa
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1482 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/26/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: mollie fry
                                                                                                              I'd like to add my name to the list of those members who have fry available.
                                                                                                              *smile*

                                                                                                              I have "Fancy Mollies" ... which means they just aren't the black or
                                                                                                              lyretail mollies. They have various color patterns ranging from silvery to
                                                                                                              orange and black. Some have speckles of all colors, which I find to be quite
                                                                                                              striking. They are about a month and a half old, so still pretty small, but
                                                                                                              I've got them in my main tank with the adults and they are holding their own


                                                                                                              I wasn't planning on shipping them, as I'm unsure of what sort of
                                                                                                              regulations and procedures that would involve without causing harm to the
                                                                                                              fish. I live in the Savannah, GA area. I was planning on keeping one or two
                                                                                                              of the babies, and wanted to just give away the others to anyone in the area
                                                                                                              who was interested. *smile* I have I think 15-18 fry available. (It's HARD
                                                                                                              to count those little buggers, I suspect I'll have to net them and move them
                                                                                                              away from the others as I count them.)

                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1483 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/26/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Free Starter Kits for Teachers! ( was - Re: any way to get live
                                                                                                              All Petco's have the ability to donate 1 15 gallon setup to a local
                                                                                                              school. It's just that the Managers are rarely privy to this info, or
                                                                                                              just don't care to find out. You could contact Petco Charities and
                                                                                                              instruct them to let your local store know you'd like one.

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1484 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/26/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: mollie fry
                                                                                                              thought this might be of interest to anyone on the group with extra
                                                                                                              fry...
                                                                                                              http://fins.actwin.com/nanf/month.9703/msg00058.html
                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                              On Mar 26, 2004, at 9:00 AM, Erin Vankouwenberg wrote:

                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > I'd like to add my name to the list of those members who have fry
                                                                                                              > available.
                                                                                                              > *smile*
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > I have "Fancy Mollies" ... which means they just aren't the black or
                                                                                                              > lyretail mollies. They have various color patterns ranging from
                                                                                                              > silvery to
                                                                                                              > orange and black. Some have speckles of all colors, which I find to
                                                                                                              > be quite
                                                                                                              > striking. They are about a month and a half old, so still pretty
                                                                                                              > small, but
                                                                                                              > I've got them in my main tank with the adults and they are holding
                                                                                                              > their own
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > I wasn't planning on shipping them, as I'm unsure of what sort of
                                                                                                              > regulations and procedures that would involve without causing harm to
                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                              > fish. I live in the Savannah, GA area. I was planning on keeping one
                                                                                                              > or two
                                                                                                              > of the babies, and wanted to just give away the others to anyone in
                                                                                                              > the area
                                                                                                              > who was interested. *smile* I have I think 15-18 fry available. (It's
                                                                                                              > HARD
                                                                                                              > to count those little buggers, I suspect I'll have to net them and
                                                                                                              > move them
                                                                                                              > away from the others as I count them.)
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Erin
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                              > Service.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                              web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1485 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 3/26/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: sailfin molly
                                                                                                              I went out and purchased a pair of sailfin mollies. The male died on the way home, I was able to return him for my money back. the female had babies over night. She had 5.  should I separate her from them? They are all in a large 29 gallon tank alone for now until I add new fish.
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1486 From: Peggy Date: 3/26/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              That's a relief!!  If he stays that small I won't have to get a larger tank until I can afford it!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Thank you!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Peggy
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:18 PM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pleco question...

                                                                                                              Probably already answered but rubber lips only get 3-4 inches.

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!

                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1487 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/26/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Fry Available
                                                                                                              Rite, this is a good idea.
                                                                                                              I am in too :)

                                                                                                              I have about
                                                                                                              40 Dwarf Neon rainbow fry (1"+)
                                                                                                              40 Hi Fin Red Sword tail (1"+)
                                                                                                              Expecting some Pearl Gourami and Angel fry soon.

                                                                                                              But I am in England, Farnborough, Hampshire area. So if anyone in the UK is
                                                                                                              interested in them. Do contact me.

                                                                                                              Nim
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1488 From: Erin Vankouwenberg Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: sailfin molly
                                                                                                              Although a lot of people swear the mollies do not eat their own young, it
                                                                                                              might be in your best interests to separate the fry. Also, count on there
                                                                                                              being more than 5. If there are only five, that means that some have more
                                                                                                              than likely already been eaten, because average size of mollie offspring is
                                                                                                              about 10-20 fry. If you have one of those "breeder boxes", you can keep your
                                                                                                              fry in there, so they are still in the main tank but they are protected from
                                                                                                              the other fish, and you can keep a good eye on them. Or, if you have a lot
                                                                                                              of plants in your tank, you can just leave the babies where they are and let
                                                                                                              them fend for themselves, let nature take its course. The ones that are
                                                                                                              smart enough to stay hidden in the plants and things will be the ones who
                                                                                                              make it. I can't stand to see my babies get eaten, so I couldn't do that.
                                                                                                              LOL

                                                                                                              Here are some links on breeding mollies that I've got bookmarked, I've sent
                                                                                                              them through before so if you've already seen the sites, please disregard.

                                                                                                              http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalfish/breedingmollies.msnw
                                                                                                              http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/raising_baby_fish.htm#top2

                                                                                                              Also ... I found a place to take my excess mollie fry! Went to a small local
                                                                                                              pet store that I had somehow missed before, the woman has been running it
                                                                                                              for twenty some odd years and said she'd gladly take the babies off of my
                                                                                                              hands. No store credit or anything, but that is fine by me because I was
                                                                                                              just going to give them away anyway. So tomorrow I will probably be picking
                                                                                                              four of the babies that I like their coloring, and bagging the rest and
                                                                                                              taking them to her. (The babies are still too small for me to tell gender,
                                                                                                              but it's okay because the woman at the shop said I could bring her fry any
                                                                                                              time.)

                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                              From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              Date: 03/26/04 12:43:15
                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] sailfin molly

                                                                                                              I went out and purchased a pair of sailfin mollies. The male died on the way home, I was able to return him for my money back. the female had babies over night. She had 5. should I separate her from them? They are all in a large 29 gallon tank alone for now until I add new fish.
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1489 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              I did find a reference at the store about a "rubber" pleco, I'll see if
                                                                                                              I can find the scientific name today, that gave an adult size of 6
                                                                                                              inches. I've never actually seen this species for sale, but if it's
                                                                                                              that one, it'll still be a keeper.

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1490 From: Peggy Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Thank you so much for any and all info.  I'll be keeping him/her either way, I'm sure.  Since I only have a 29 gallon tank I was afraid if he grew to over 12 inches he would need a bigger tank in the future.  6 inches should still be okay - I don't have many fish in the tank - 6 danios, old catfish and one male Betta - also live plants. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Any idea on how long catfish live?  I've had the same catfish for over 8 years and he's still doing great.  Just a regular cory catfish.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Thank you again,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Peggy
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:18 AM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pleco question...

                                                                                                              I did find a reference at the store about a "rubber" pleco, I'll see if
                                                                                                              I can find the scientific name today, that gave an adult size of 6
                                                                                                              inches.  I've never actually seen this species for sale, but if it's
                                                                                                              that one, it'll still be a keeper.

                                                                                                              Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!


                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1491 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Don't you feel that soulful Corydora, lying there, on the gravel, looking at you occasionally with those interested (pleading?) eyes, is a little sad at having to be alone?
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1492 From: *~* Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: first post and my first flat worm problem
                                                                                                              Hello, hello!

                                                                                                              This is my first post to FTFA and am I having an anxiety attack LOL

                                                                                                              I woke up this a.m. to flat worms on the sides of my tank. eeeww...anyone else ever get these little guys? and what reason do you
                                                                                                              think they appeared for? I called my LFS and they suggested formalyn and said they were non threatening to the fish. And today is
                                                                                                              day 7, cleaning day! How did these little creeps show up in only 1 week!? It wouldn't be so bad, but, I had to leave for work almost
                                                                                                              immediately after seeing them in the tank. I hit it with a small dose of Melafix since I had no idea what they were at the time. No
                                                                                                              harm, I suppose...but I guess it probably wont fix it either.

                                                                                                              Anyway, I have a 20gal with 1 male betta, 2 male fancy gups, 2 fm gups, a handful of guppy and molly fry. (this is the wormy tank).
                                                                                                              My 38 gal has 2 blue gourami, 2 larger blue/orange (cant think of the name) gourami (1 of 4 gourami is male, 3 are fm), 1 gold apple
                                                                                                              snail, 1 common plec, 2 jewel ciclids, 2 molly (1 m, 1 fm) - this tank is happy! My 75 gal is down right now...1 have a very preg fm
                                                                                                              gup in a 5 gal by herself for now...she just finished a short fin fungus treatment with good results. In kind of a transition period too. I
                                                                                                              want to put something...I dont know what yet into my 20...hmmm

                                                                                                              Well, back to work til 5:30 (sigh) thanks for any help and hope all your tanks are happy ones :)

                                                                                                              ciao ~
                                                                                                              J
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1493 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Poll results for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                              The following FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium poll is now closed. Here are the
                                                                                                              final results:


                                                                                                              POLL QUESTION: Do your fish hand feed? Hand feed is,
                                                                                                              like when you hold the food in your
                                                                                                              fingers and the fish all come up and
                                                                                                              grab it from your hand, or you place
                                                                                                              the food on your hand/fingers and the
                                                                                                              fish knows you and comes up and takes
                                                                                                              the food.

                                                                                                              CHOICES AND RESULTS
                                                                                                              - Yes, Most of them, 1 votes, 10.00%
                                                                                                              - Yes, but 50/50, 0 votes, 0.00%
                                                                                                              - Yes, but very selected, 2 votes, 20.00%
                                                                                                              - Only 1 or 2, 1 votes, 10.00%
                                                                                                              - None, 3 votes, 30.00%
                                                                                                              - Would love them to, 3 votes, 30.00%
                                                                                                              - It does not matter, 0 votes, 0.00%
                                                                                                              - Too Scary, 0 votes, 0.00%



                                                                                                              For more information about this group, please visit
                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

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                                                                                                              http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1494 From: wolfhunterco Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: NEW FRESHWATER TROPICAL AQUARIUM WEB SITE
                                                                                                              Hello

                                                                                                              I just found this Tropical Aquarium Fish web site. I thought you
                                                                                                              might be interested.

                                                                                                              http://www.tropical-aquarium-fish.com
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1495 From: Peggy Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Interesting question, Joe, I always thought that Cory's were loners? 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I've often thought of getting another Corydora but didn't want the one I have to ever feel territorial.  He's been with me a long time - at least 8 years, maybe longer.  I'd almost say that he was one of my first fish when I started with a little ten gallon tank about 12 years ago, I just can't remember what fish I got in the beginning specifically.  Can they live to be 12 years old?  There were some neons, swordtails, mollies - then I went to a bigger tank and it was Gourami's, red tailed sharks, angel fish, along those lines.  When I switched from freshwater to brackish and a 55 gallon tank, he never missed a beat but adapted beautifully.  Now that I'm down to a 29 gallon and back to freshwater he's as perky as ever. His *house* has always been a skelton head (hey, I was younger than!) that I've put into every tank I've ever had, just because I know he likes to sleep in there.  This baby rubber-lipped pleco (if there is such a thing) seems to like him a lot and is hanging out on the outside of the skeleton head and even follows the Cory around. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              So, Joe, do Cory's like to hang out with other Cory's or are they loners?
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Thanks for the help!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Peggy 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:33 AM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pleco question...

                                                                                                              Don't you feel that soulful Corydora, lying there, on the gravel, looking at you occasionally with those interested (pleading?) eyes, is a little sad at having to be alone?
                                                                                                                                 Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1496 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Peggy,
                                                                                                              What started me with fish was a or 1/2 gallon aquarium, with green water, 1/3 full and one lonely-looking, apparently healthy Corydora Aeneus. He/she was in an empty apartment that was part of a building being converted into law-offices. One of the first things I did was get a larger tank, and a companion. I think it was 4-gallons, and as for the companion, I did'nt know the gender, but the stuff I found sticking to the aquarium walls that I thought were snail-eggs, I found much, much later to be the result of a successfully mated pair of Corys. I now have a 75 gallon tank, with a school of Corys' and an Otosynchlus and a couple Chinese algae eaters.
                                                                                                              An excerpt from the 'Baensch Aquarium Atlas', states:
                                                                                                              "These catfish always swim in schools, most often with several dozen of their species. Often they can be found in company of other species, depending on the depth of the water, and the time of the year. Generally three to six species may be found together, all searching for food in a closely-defined territory. The author was able to entice them with tablets and they came from some distance devouring the tablets from directly beneath the net. Once during our expedition, several thousand Corydora Garbeei were caught in our net. Such catches are rewarding, especially for local exporters, since to catch a dozen rare catfish is normally a long and laborious process.

                                                                                                              The following paragraph directly preceeded the above excerpt.

                                                                                                              While nearly 140 species are known to icthyologists, only thirty are commercially available, and just ten are captive bred. Virtually every river in South America has its own species or sub-species of Corydoras. On a recent trip to Transamazonica, the author crossed more than 50 streams and rivers and caught many fish. Often two or three species were caught together, and on occasion, more. When observed by artificial light, the Catfishes were found just a few inches above the bottom, in calm, shallow waters. They were easily captured by casting a net over them. By day, they could be seen swimming in the strongest current, in the very center of the stream. When fleeing capture they were as nimble as other, apparently more agile fishes. They always fled upstream, but quickly returned, sometimes in a few minutes, often in only seconds.
                                                                                                              They like being with one another. If you click on my yahoo nickname, there's a link to a site where I have some rather poor pictures of my aquarium, and if you look close, there will be at least one group of Cory Aeneus'.
                                                                                                              If there are exceptions to their schooling, it could be sickness, or a need to be alone or something. Maybe crowding. But they almost 100% exclusively school
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1497 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/27/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Peggy,
                                                                                                              I forgot to mention in my last email, that Cory' have been known to live 18 years. So you could possibly help your Cory with a companion. As far as sexing/gendering, the male tapers from the nose to the pectoral fins, and the female is wider, tapered from the nose, behind the pectoral fins, as seen from the top. They'll breed if you decrease the water temperature to resemble the drop in temperature that occurs in their native waters, when spring-thaws in the mountains bring cool water to the low/lower lands.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1498 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Joe... I'd like to know more about the book you mention below.
                                                                                                              A search on Baensch Aquarium Atlas brings up different things. One if  a listing at Amazon that reads
                                                                                                              Baensch Aquarium Atlas: Photo Index 1-5 and then listing that include several different volumes.

                                                                                                              Does one want to own ALL volumes, one specific volume...?




                                                                                                              At 01:36 AM 3/28/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                              Peggy,
                                                                                                                What started me with fish was a  or 1/2 gallon aquarium, with green water, 1/3 full and one lonely-looking, apparently healthy Corydora Aeneus. He/she was in an empty apartment that was part of a building being converted into law-offices. One of the first things I did was get a larger tank, and a companion. I think it was 4-gallons, and as for the companion, I did'nt know the gender, but the stuff I found sticking to the aquarium walls that I thought were snail-eggs, I found much, much later to be the result of a successfully mated pair of Corys. I now have a 75 gallon tank, with a school of Corys' and an Otosynchlus and a couple Chinese algae eaters.
                                                                                                                 An excerpt from the 'Baensch Aquarium Atlas', states:
                                                                                                                       "These catfish always swim in schools, most often with several dozen of their species. Often they can be found in company of other species, depending on the depth of the water, and the time of the year. Generally three to six species may be found together, all searching for food in a closely-defined territory. The author was able to entice them with tablets and they came from some distance devouring the tablets from directly beneath the net. Once during our expedition, several thousand Corydora Garbeei were caught in our net. Such catches are rewarding, especially for local exporters, since to catch a dozen rare catfish is normally a long and laborious process.

                                                                                                                 The following paragraph directly preceeded the above excerpt.

                                                                                                                 While nearly 140 species are known to icthyologists, only thirty are commercially available, and just ten are captive bred. Virtually every river in South America has its own species or sub-species of Corydoras. On a recent trip to Transamazonica, the author crossed more than 50 streams and rivers and caught many fish. Often two or three species were caught together, and on occasion, more. When observed by artificial light, the Catfishes were found just a few inches above the bottom, in calm, shallow waters. They were easily captured by casting a net over them. By day, they could be seen swimming in the strongest current, in the very center of the stream. When fleeing capture they were as nimble as other, apparently more agile fishes. They always fled upstream, but quickly returned, sometimes in a few minutes, often in only seconds.
                                                                                                                  They like being with one another. If you click on my yahoo nickname, there's a link to a site where I have some rather poor pictures of my aquarium, and if you look close, there will be at least one group of Cory Aeneus'.
                                                                                                                  If there are exceptions to their schooling, it could be sickness, or a need to be alone or something. Maybe crowding. But they almost 100% exclusively school
                                                                                                                                       Joe Pascavage




                                                                                                               
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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1499 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Help? Rust?
                                                                                                              Hi all. I haven't really been around because my Dad has been in the
                                                                                                              hospital for weeks, but I noticed this morning that I have something that
                                                                                                              looks like rust in the tank. Some of the glass and some on the fake plants.
                                                                                                              Is this a type of algae? Good? Bad? I don't have any algae eaters because
                                                                                                              I haven't had any. Lost another platy this morning. All the rest look
                                                                                                              fine.

                                                                                                              Thanks for info and if you could please send it to me direct instead of
                                                                                                              through the list, that would be great. I had to change my status to digest
                                                                                                              because of Dad and it takes days sometimes before I get a digest.

                                                                                                              Thanks again.

                                                                                                              Mary
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1500 From: Peggy Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
                                                                                                              Joe, all I can say is WOW!!!  And I wish I had known you when I first started with fish!  Plus, I am feeling guilty now for not having researched the Corydora's in all of these years.  My poor Cory has been alone all of this time and me totally oblivious to the fact that they like to school.  It's weird but with all of the other fish I've always tried to learn what I could but never about catfish.  I think I originally got him because when I started I had one of those little pamphlet books ("My First Aquarium" or something like that.) and it just said for the bottom of the tank to get a catfish.  So I just got whatever catfish was at the LFS and never gave it another thought. Fortunately I still have a lot of room in this tank so getting a few more Cory's will not be a problem.  In fact, I'm a little excited about it because I'm curious to see how my Cory reacts.  He/she has been out a lot more since adding the pleco (how about pleco's?  Do they also school?  They still have some from the same group at the LFS that I could get.)  The corydora I have is Corydoras loxozonus  from the pictures I found at PlanetCatfish http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/callicht/corydora/779_f.php(took a bit of searching to find one that matches my Cory.)  Now, if I can't find a cordoras loxozonus would other corydora species work??  I bought this guy a long time ago and I've really never looked at catfish since so I'm not sure what's common and/or easy to find now. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Thank you so much for your help, Joe, at lastmy Corydoras will have some friends, thanks to you!!!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Peggy
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:36 AM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pleco question...

                                                                                                              Peggy,
                                                                                                                What started me with fish was a  or 1/2 gallon aquarium, with green water, 1/3 full and one lonely-looking, apparently healthy Corydora Aeneus. He/she was in an empty apartment that was part of a building being converted into law-offices. One of the first things I did was get a larger tank, and a companion. I think it was 4-gallons, and as for the companion, I did'nt know the gender, but the stuff I found sticking to the aquarium walls that I thought were snail-eggs, I found much, much later to be the result of a successfully mated pair of Corys. I now have a 75 gallon tank, with a school of Corys' and an Otosynchlus and a couple Chinese algae eaters.
                                                                                                                 An excerpt from the 'Baensch Aquarium Atlas', states:
                                                                                                                       "These catfish always swim in schools, most often with several dozen of their species. Often they can be found in company of other species, depending on the depth of the water, and the time of the year. Generally three to six species may be found together, all searching for food in a closely-defined territory. The author was able to entice them with tablets and they came from some distance devouring the tablets from directly beneath the net. Once during our expedition, several thousand Corydora Garbeei were caught in our net. Such catches are rewarding, especially for local exporters, since to catch a dozen rare catfish is normally a long and laborious process.

                                                                                                                 The following paragraph directly preceeded the above excerpt.

                                                                                                                 While nearly 140 species are known to icthyologists, only thirty are commercially available, and just ten are captive bred. Virtually every river in South America has its own species or sub-species of Corydoras. On a recent trip to Transamazonica, the author crossed more than 50 streams and rivers and caught many fish. Often two or three species were caught together, and on occasion, more. When observed by artificial light, the Catfishes were found just a few inches above the bottom, in calm, shallow waters. They were easily captured by casting a net over them. By day, they could be seen swimming in the strongest current, in the very center of the stream. When fleeing capture they were as nimble as other, apparently more agile fishes. They always fled upstream, but quickly returned, sometimes in a few minutes, often in only seconds.
                                                                                                                  They like being with one another. If you click on my yahoo nickname, there's a link to a site where I have some rather poor pictures of my aquarium, and if you look close, there will be at least one group of Cory Aeneus'.
                                                                                                                  If there are exceptions to their schooling, it could be sickness, or a need to be alone or something. Maybe crowding. But they almost 100% exclusively school
                                                                                                                                       Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1501 From: Julie Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Help? Rust?
                                                                                                              Mary, sorry to hear about your dad,  I hope he is feeling better.  That said, whoever answers Mary, could you post it to the list also?  Along with posting to Mary directly?  I am pretty new to aquariums, and I enjoy getting all the info I can, whether or not something pertains to my situation right at that moment.
                                                                                                              julie
                                                                                                              Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                              I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Hi all.  I haven't really been around because my Dad has been in the
                                                                                                              hospital for weeks, but I noticed this morning that I have something that
                                                                                                              looks like rust in the tank.  Some of the glass and some on the fake plants.
                                                                                                              Is this a type of algae?  Good?  Bad?  I don't have any algae eaters because
                                                                                                              I haven't had any.  Lost another platy this morning.  All the rest look
                                                                                                              fine.

                                                                                                              Thanks for info and if you could please send it to me direct instead of
                                                                                                              through the list, that would be great.  I had to change my status to digest
                                                                                                              because of Dad and it takes days sometimes before I get a digest.

                                                                                                              Thanks again.

                                                                                                              Mary
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1502 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Cory questions
                                                                                                              Hi,
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I'd never heard of that cory so I checked out the pictures, very nice! It reminds me of a panda/3 lined combo.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              I have 3 types of cories. At one point I had pepperd and 3 lined together in one tank, 3 of each. While they technically didn't school, they hung out together, ate together, swam together. No problems. Maybe if you can't find that particular one a lfs might order it for you, or check something like Aquabid or another online fish store.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              One thing I've found with cories is the more the merrier :) Even going from a group of 4 to 6 makes a big difference.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Have fun, I think they're great fish.
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Theresa
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                              From: Peggy
                                                                                                              Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:54 AM
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]Cory questions(was Pleco question...)

                                                                                                              Joe, all I can say is WOW!!!  And I wish I had known you when I first started with fish!  Plus, I am feeling guilty now for not having researched the Corydora's in all of these years.  My poor Cory has been alone all of this time and me totally oblivious to the fact that they like to school.  It's weird but with all of the other fish I've always tried to learn what I could but never about catfish.  I think I originally got him because when I started I had one of those little pamphlet books ("My First Aquarium" or something like that.) and it just said for the bottom of the tank to get a catfish.  So I just got whatever catfish was at the LFS and never gave it another thought. Fortunately I still have a lot of room in this tank so getting a few more Cory's will not be a problem.  In fact, I'm a little excited about it because I'm curious to see how my Cory reacts.  He/she has been out a lot more since adding the pleco (how about pleco's?  Do they also school?  They still have some from the same group at the LFS that I could get.)  The corydora I have is Corydoras loxozonus  from the pictures I found at PlanetCatfish http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/callicht/corydora/779_f.php(took a bit of searching to find one that matches my Cory.)  Now, if I can't find a cordoras loxozonus would other corydora species work??  I bought this guy a long time ago and I've really never looked at catfish since so I'm not sure what's common and/or easy to find now. 
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Thank you so much for your help, Joe, at lastmy Corydoras will have some friends, thanks to you!!!
                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              Peggy
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1503 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Tony,
                                                                                                              The edition of the Baensch-ATLAS i HAVE IS DATED 1987, AND THE AUTHOR/S OTHER THAN bAENSCH ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE BOOK IN THE LINK YOU SENT. (PLEASE PARDON MY 'CAPS-LOCK BOO-BOO-, i'M too tired o backspace and re-ype)in the dust-cover is a sentence or two that refers to tropical and cold-water aquarium fish. In he link you sent, the reviews use the term "BOOK", in spite of the fact the description refers to an element of "1-5". There may be one book involved. Since I knew there are often sequential, updated publications of the same author/authors, after answering Peggys' questions about Cory needs, by going to my infrequently used Baensch-Atlas, I checked GOOGLE, and came up with Amazon.com references that were more elaborate than he link in your email. There are indeed a number of books in the Baensch line, and I have'nt researched yet to narrow the focus to see if the edition I have is still published. If the key words "cold water" and "tropical' are indications that my edition and the edition you found with the "key" word "book" in the review description , relate to a similarity, and an updated publication of the same book, I don't know that. We'll have to look into it. There's another book called;
                                                                                                              Dr.Axelrod's Mini-ATLAS OF freshwater aquarium FISHES mini-edition that's a mini 992 pages. Strangely enough the Baensch-Atlas also has 992 pages. These books are dis-similar/similar, and relate to the same subject matter. If I had to do it again, I'd buy both.

                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1504 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Thanks Joe...

                                                                                                              If you've got one, or end up with one, I'd really like to get a suggestion
                                                                                                              on one kind of all purpose book, if such a thing exists. Almost all my
                                                                                                              hobbies over the year include some reading and study. Unfortunately I don't
                                                                                                              have the budget to buy a bunch of books (as I would usually do) but would
                                                                                                              still like to use a resource.

                                                                                                              Tony


                                                                                                              AT 02:26 PM 3/28/2004 j.pascavage@... offered the following words:
                                                                                                              > Tony,
                                                                                                              > The edition of the Baensch-ATLAS i HAVE IS DATED 1987, AND THE
                                                                                                              > AUTHOR/S OTHER THAN bAENSCH ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE BOOK IN THE LINK YOU
                                                                                                              > SENT. (PLEASE PARDON MY 'CAPS-LOCK BOO-BOO-, i'M too tired o backspace
                                                                                                              > and re-ype)in the dust-cover is a sentence or two that refers to tropical
                                                                                                              > and cold-water aquarium fish. In he link you sent, the reviews use the
                                                                                                              > term "BOOK", in spite of the fact the description refers to an element
                                                                                                              > of "1-5". There may be one book involved. Since I knew there are often
                                                                                                              > sequential, updated publications of the same author/authors, after
                                                                                                              > answering Peggys' questions about Cory needs, by going to my infrequently
                                                                                                              > used Baensch-Atlas, I checked GOOGLE, and came up with Amazon.com
                                                                                                              > references that were more elaborate than he link in your email. There are
                                                                                                              > indeed a number of books in the Baensch line, and I have'nt researched
                                                                                                              > yet to narrow the focus to see if the edition I have is still published.
                                                                                                              > If the key words "cold water" and "tropical' are indications that my
                                                                                                              > edition and the edition you found with the "key" word "book" in the
                                                                                                              > review description , relate to a similarity, and an updated publication
                                                                                                              > of the same book, I don't know that. We'll have to look into it. There's
                                                                                                              > another book called;
                                                                                                              > Dr.Axelrod's Mini-ATLAS OF freshwater aquarium FISHES mini-edition
                                                                                                              > that's a mini 992 pages. Strangely enough the Baensch-Atlas also has 992
                                                                                                              > pages. These books are dis-similar/similar, and relate to the same
                                                                                                              > subject matter. If I had to do it again, I'd buy both.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1505 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
                                                                                                              Peggy,
                                                                                                              I'm not an expert. What I've experienced about Corys' when two or more of that species are in he same tank together, is that they tend to group within their genus, and mingle at times, especially at feeding time. I think Paleatus and Aeneus would group together more than the black and white spotted/striped fish. I remember about four black and white, striped/spotted (I can't remember which type, two different types, resting in different parts of the tank from the predominant numbers of Aeneus'. But they would mingle at times,esp. at feeding. There was never a fuss about territoriality among any of them at any time. In fact, I had three female Bettas', one of which was older, and afflicted with lymphocystis, who became territorial in her old-age/affliction, and when she regularly harrassed the two other females who passed by her little spot, the Corys' broke up the confrontation rather quietly. When the scientists label the species 'peaceful', their behaviour really exemplified that description in my experience.The nasty theatrical reference to 'bottom-dwellers' in cops and robbers dramas, referring to criminals as 'bottom'dwellers' is mis-anthropic. Somebody should scold them, and point out that they don't have wings, among other things.
                                                                                                              As for PLECOSTOMUSES', I had an experience with one that a co-worker brought to me 'cause it outgrew his tank, and while I had a 75 gallon at the time, I thought he was too big for my tank and called PetSmart to see if they would take him. They said 'no', it's not policy, but one of their staff could accomodate him in their pond over summer, and keep him indoors during cold weather. I know some of them can grow quite-large, and I've never seen anything but solitary Plecos' in Fish-Stores. If there are smaller ones that school, I don't know that. If I have time today, I'll try looking for that information.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavagew
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1506 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
                                                                                                              Peggy,
                                                                                                              Just a thought. But one of the reasons Cory/Catfish are not generally on anyones priority list could be that they're not colorfull enough to get the attention they deserve, (unless they're big-enough to eat) and the language of attention does'nt emanate from a source that educates a customers desire for a catfish 'cuz they "keep -the-tank-clean". In other words, they're supposed to eat fish waste, and all the so called ugly stuff the topographical market has additives for. (like some algae, which is normal, and desireable,because it's nutrient, but would be killed by additives, along with your plants and possibly your biological filter). I was at a PetSmart lately, and an overwrought young woman wanted something (a fish/fishes) to keep her tank clean. The service person did'nt indicate that keeping the tank clean is'nt the fishs' responsibility, and I felt compelled to say the fish won't do it. One of my books indicates it's appalling that those kindly little Corys' are expected to eat fish-waste. The market is still driven by common attitudes.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1507 From: Jonathan Short Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: would they mix?
                                                                                                              Ok I've finally upgraded to a bigger tank. It's not exactly massive
                                                                                                              by comparison of some of the memebers tank, but never the less....
                                                                                                              It's a 21 gallon 80x40x30. It's really nice, I love it.
                                                                                                              But the question is....
                                                                                                              What should I keep in it??
                                                                                                              I've already decided to keep cichlids and maybe parrot fish, but I
                                                                                                              am still a newbie in the hobby and could do with a hand.
                                                                                                              I have some Black moors in a coldwater tank, but the tank is small
                                                                                                              and I'd lvoe to give them a bigger home. So I wondered,
                                                                                                              Could Black Moors be kept with Cichilids, but more to the point,
                                                                                                              would they be ok in a higher temperature environment???
                                                                                                              Am I being thick? Just say if I am.....
                                                                                                              Also, is there anything in particular that you should'nt keep with
                                                                                                              cichlids at all?
                                                                                                              ie, You don't put two male siamese fighters together.
                                                                                                              Does anyone have any good or bad experiences with cichlids?
                                                                                                              Please get back to me on this, I'm currently cycling the tank and
                                                                                                              I'll be buying in about 5 more days
                                                                                                              Thanks a lot :)
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1508 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Tony,
                                                                                                              I checked the "Dr. Axelrods" (use the full title, or most of it) title in GOOGLE, and got reference at Amazon to it. It's also a good compact reference. Like I said, if I was starting again with what I have now, I'd buy both of them. And if I could afford only one, I'd choose either.
                                                                                                              Joe P.
                                                                                                              > Thanks Joe...
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > If you've got one, or end up with one, I'd really like to get a suggestion
                                                                                                              > on one kind of all purpose book, if such a thing exists. Almost all my
                                                                                                              > hobbies over the year include some reading and study. Unfortunately I don't
                                                                                                              > have the budget to buy a bunch of books (as I would usually do) but would
                                                                                                              > still like to use a resource.
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Tony
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > AT 02:26 PM 3/28/2004 j.pascavage@... offered the following words:
                                                                                                              > > Tony,
                                                                                                              > > The edition of the Baensch-ATLAS i HAVE IS DATED 1987, AND THE
                                                                                                              > > AUTHOR/S OTHER THAN bAENSCH ARE NOT THE SAME AS THE BOOK IN THE LINK YOU
                                                                                                              > > SENT. (PLEASE PARDON MY 'CAPS-LOCK BOO-BOO-, i'M too tired o backspace
                                                                                                              > > and re-ype)in the dust-cover is a sentence or two that refers to tropical
                                                                                                              > > and cold-water aquarium fish. In he link you sent, the reviews use the
                                                                                                              > > term "BOOK", in spite of the fact the description refers to an element
                                                                                                              > > of "1-5". There may be one book involved. Since I knew there are often

                                                                                                              > > sequential, updated publications of the same author/authors, after
                                                                                                              > > answering Peggys' questions about Cory needs, by going to my infrequently
                                                                                                              > > used Baensch-Atlas, I checked GOOGLE, and came up with Amazon.com
                                                                                                              > > references that were more elaborate than he link in your email. There are
                                                                                                              > > indeed a number of books in the Baensch line, and I have'nt researched
                                                                                                              > > yet to narrow the focus to see if the edition I have is still published.
                                                                                                              > > If the key words "cold water" and "tropical' are indications that my
                                                                                                              > > edition and the edition you found with the "key" word "book" in the
                                                                                                              > > review description , relate to a similarity, and an updated publication
                                                                                                              > > of the same book, I don't know that. We'll have to look into it. There's
                                                                                                              > > another book called;
                                                                                                              > > Dr.Axelrod's Mini-ATLAS OF freshwater aquarium FISHES mini-edition
                                                                                                              > > that's a mini 992 pages. Strangely enough the Baensch-Atlas also has 992
                                                                                                              > > pages. These books are dis-similar/similar, and relate to the same

                                                                                                              > > subject matter. If I had to do it again, I'd buy both.
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1509 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: would they mix?
                                                                                                              Aside from the fish temperaments, the numbers describing the size and volume of your new tank don't add up?
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              PS
                                                                                                              I'm not an authority on fish, but my 75-gallon tank is approximately 48" x 18" x 20", and yours if is 80" x 40" x #30", it should be considerably bigger than 21-gallons volume. Considering stocking such numbers would be a quandry for an advisor.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > Ok I've finally upgraded to a bigger tank. It's not exactly massive
                                                                                                              > by comparison of some of the memebers tank, but never the less....
                                                                                                              > It's a 21 gallon 80x40x30. It's really nice, I love it.
                                                                                                              > But the question is....
                                                                                                              > What should I keep in it??
                                                                                                              > I've already decided to keep cichlids and maybe parrot fish, but I
                                                                                                              > am still a newbie in the hobby and could do with a hand.
                                                                                                              > I have some Black moors in a coldwater tank, but the tank is small
                                                                                                              > and I'd lvoe to give them a bigger home. So I wondered,
                                                                                                              > Could Black Moors be kept with Cichilids, but more to the point,
                                                                                                              > would they be ok in a higher temperature environment???
                                                                                                              > Am I being thick? Just say if I am.....
                                                                                                              > Also, is there anything in particular that you should'nt keep with
                                                                                                              > cichlids at all?
                                                                                                              > ie, You don't put two male siamese fighters together.
                                                                                                              > Does anyone have any good or bad experiences with cichlids?
                                                                                                              > Please get back to me on this, I'm currently cycling the tank and
                                                                                                              > I'll be buying in about 5 more days
                                                                                                              > Thanks a lot :)
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1510 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: would they mix?
                                                                                                              I think coldwater fish should be kept in a coldwater environment. When I had goldfish in a 70 gallon tank, and tropicals in a 70 or 75, I fussed about temperature, but could'nt do anything about the goldfish short of buying a water-chiller, which costs about as much as a higher BTU air-conditioner, and I told myself I could'nt afford that. To keep the summer temperatures down, I kept a 25,000 BTU air-conditioner running day and night, but all things considered, both tanks ended-up with about the 78-degree tropical temp. The air-conditioner was there to keep the room from getting too hot, and for stability the average temperature somehow was best adjusted by having heaters in both tanks, and tropical temps ruled, 'cuz I would'nt/could'nt buy a water chiller for the cold-water goldfish. If you can afford it, get a bigger tank for the Black-Moors, and buy a water-chiller. That could set you back between 500 and 1,000 dollars, and that's why I did'nt do it.
                                                                                                              But if I could, I'd buy anything needed.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > Ok I've finally upgraded to a bigger tank. It's not exactly massive
                                                                                                              > by comparison of some of the memebers tank, but never the less....
                                                                                                              > It's a 21 gallon 80x40x30. It's really nice, I love it.
                                                                                                              > But the question is....
                                                                                                              > What should I keep in it??
                                                                                                              > I've already decided to keep cichlids and maybe parrot fish, but I
                                                                                                              > am still a newbie in the hobby and could do with a hand.
                                                                                                              > I have some Black moors in a coldwater tank, but the tank is small
                                                                                                              > and I'd lvoe to give them a bigger home. So I wondered,
                                                                                                              > Could Black Moors be kept with Cichilids, but more to the point,
                                                                                                              > would they be ok in a higher temperature environment???
                                                                                                              > Am I being thick? Just say if I am.....
                                                                                                              > Also, is there anything in particular that you should'nt keep with
                                                                                                              > cichlids at all?
                                                                                                              > ie, You don't put two male siamese fighters together.
                                                                                                              > Does anyone have any good or bad experiences with cichlids?
                                                                                                              > Please get back to me on this, I'm currently cycling the tank and
                                                                                                              > I'll be buying in about 5 more days
                                                                                                              > Thanks a lot :)
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1511 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: would they mix?
                                                                                                              I think coldwater fish should be kept in a coldwater environment. When I had goldfish in a 70 gallon tank, and tropicals in a 70 or 75, I fussed about temperature, but could'nt do anything about the goldfish short of buying a water-chiller, which costs about as much as a higher BTU air-conditioner, and I told myself I could'nt afford that. To keep the summer temperatures down, I kept a 25,000 BTU air-conditioner running day and night, but all things considered, both tanks ended-up with about the 78-degree tropical temp. The air-conditioner was there to keep the room from getting too hot, and for stability the average temperature somehow was best adjusted by having heaters in both tanks, and tropical temps ruled, 'cuz I would'nt/could'nt buy a water chiller for the cold-water goldfish. If you can afford it, get a bigger tank for the Black-Moors, and buy a water-chiller. That could set you back between 500 and 1,000 dollars, and that's why I did'nt do it.
                                                                                                              But if I could, I'd buy anything needed.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > Ok I've finally upgraded to a bigger tank. It's not exactly massive
                                                                                                              > by comparison of some of the memebers tank, but never the less....
                                                                                                              > It's a 21 gallon 80x40x30. It's really nice, I love it.
                                                                                                              > But the question is....
                                                                                                              > What should I keep in it??
                                                                                                              > I've already decided to keep cichlids and maybe parrot fish, but I
                                                                                                              > am still a newbie in the hobby and could do with a hand.
                                                                                                              > I have some Black moors in a coldwater tank, but the tank is small
                                                                                                              > and I'd lvoe to give them a bigger home. So I wondered,
                                                                                                              > Could Black Moors be kept with Cichilids, but more to the point,
                                                                                                              > would they be ok in a higher temperature environment???
                                                                                                              > Am I being thick? Just say if I am.....
                                                                                                              > Also, is there anything in particular that you should'nt keep with
                                                                                                              > cichlids at all?
                                                                                                              > ie, You don't put two male siamese fighters together.
                                                                                                              > Does anyone have any good or bad experiences with cichlids?
                                                                                                              > Please get back to me on this, I'm currently cycling the tank and
                                                                                                              > I'll be buying in about 5 more days
                                                                                                              > Thanks a lot :)
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1512 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: would they mix?
                                                                                                              I think coldwater fish should be kept in a coldwater environment. When I had goldfish in a 70 gallon tank, and tropicals in a 70 or 75, I fussed about temperature, but could'nt do anything about the goldfish short of buying a water-chiller, which costs about as much as a higher BTU air-conditioner, and I told myself I could'nt afford that. To keep the summer temperatures down, I kept a 25,000 BTU air-conditioner running day and night, but all things considered, both tanks ended-up with about the 78-degree tropical temp. The air-conditioner was there to keep the room from getting too hot, and for stability the average temperature somehow was best adjusted by having heaters in both tanks, and tropical temps ruled, 'cuz I would'nt/could'nt buy a water chiller for the cold-water goldfish. If you can afford it, get a bigger tank for the Black-Moors, and buy a water-chiller. That could set you back between 500 and 1,000 dollars, and that's why I did'nt do it.
                                                                                                              But if I could, I'd buy anything needed.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              > Ok I've finally upgraded to a bigger tank. It's not exactly massive
                                                                                                              > by comparison of some of the memebers tank, but never the less....
                                                                                                              > It's a 21 gallon 80x40x30. It's really nice, I love it.
                                                                                                              > But the question is....
                                                                                                              > What should I keep in it??
                                                                                                              > I've already decided to keep cichlids and maybe parrot fish, but I
                                                                                                              > am still a newbie in the hobby and could do with a hand.
                                                                                                              > I have some Black moors in a coldwater tank, but the tank is small
                                                                                                              > and I'd lvoe to give them a bigger home. So I wondered,
                                                                                                              > Could Black Moors be kept with Cichilids, but more to the point,
                                                                                                              > would they be ok in a higher temperature environment???
                                                                                                              > Am I being thick? Just say if I am.....
                                                                                                              > Also, is there anything in particular that you should'nt keep with
                                                                                                              > cichlids at all?
                                                                                                              > ie, You don't put two male siamese fighters together.
                                                                                                              > Does anyone have any good or bad experiences with cichlids?
                                                                                                              > Please get back to me on this, I'm currently cycling the tank and
                                                                                                              > I'll be buying in about 5 more days
                                                                                                              > Thanks a lot :)
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1513 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: duplicate emails
                                                                                                              H'lo, and....
                                                                                                              I apologize for the duplicate string in my last send. My
                                                                                                              browser froze at "send", I got an error message, and discovered too
                                                                                                              many posts due to the error.
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1514 From: Randy H Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Hello


                                                                                                              The Baensch Aquarium Atlas is a 3 volume set. I own all 3. These books are excellent and I highly recommend them.
                                                                                                              You can purchase them online at this address

                                                                                                              http://www.tropical-aquarium-fish.com/html/books.htm

                                                                                                              Wolfhunterco




                                                                                                              --- On Sun 03/28, Tony Bittick < tbittick@... > wrote:

                                                                                                              From: Tony Bittick [mailto: tbittick@...]
                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 07:57:04 -0500
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pleco question...

                                                                                                              Joe... I'd like to know more about the book you mention below.
                                                                                                              A search on Baensch Aquarium Atlas brings up different things. One if a listing at Amazon that reads
                                                                                                              Baensch Aquarium Atlas: Photo Index 1-5 and then listing that include several different volumes.

                                                                                                              Does one want to own ALL volumes, one specific volume...?




                                                                                                              At 01:36 AM 3/28/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                              Peggy,
                                                                                                              What started me with fish was a or 1/2 gallon aquarium, with green water, 1/3 full and one lonely-looking, apparently healthy Corydora Aeneus. He/she was in an empty apartment that was part of a building being converted into law-offices. One of the first things I did was get a larger tank, and a companion. I think it was 4-gallons, and as for the companion, I did'nt know the gender, but the stuff I found sticking to the aquarium walls that I thought were snail-eggs, I found much, much later to be the result of a successfully mated pair of Corys. I now have a 75 gallon tank, with a school of Corys' and an Otosynchlus and a couple Chinese algae eaters.
                                                                                                              An excerpt from the 'Baensch Aquarium Atlas', states:
                                                                                                              "These catfish always swim in schools, most often with several dozen of their species. Often they can be found in company of other species, depending on the depth of the water, and the time of the year. Generally three to six species may be found together, all searching for food in a closely-defined territory. The author was able to entice them with tablets and they came from some distance devouring the tablets from directly beneath the net. Once during our expedition, several thousand Corydora Garbeei were caught in our net. Such catches are rewarding, especially for local exporters, since to catch a dozen rare catfish is normally a long and laborious process.

                                                                                                              The following paragraph directly preceeded the above excerpt.

                                                                                                              While nearly 140 species are known to icthyologists, only thirty are commercially available, and just ten are captive bred. Virtually every river in South America has its own species or sub-species of Corydoras. On a recent trip to Transamazonica, the author crossed more than 50 streams and rivers and caught many fish. Often two or three species were caught together, and on occasion, more. When observed by artificial light, the Catfishes were found just a few inches above the bottom, in calm, shallow waters. They were easily captured by casting a net over them. By day, they could be seen swimming in the strongest current, in the very center of the stream. When fleeing capture they were as nimble as other, apparently more agile fishes. They always fled upstream, but quickly returned, sometimes in a few minutes, often in only seconds.
                                                                                                              They like being with one another. If you click on my yahoo nickname, there's a link to a site where I have some rather poor pictures of my aquarium, and if you look close, there will be at least one group of Cory Aeneus'.
                                                                                                              If there are exceptions to their schooling, it could be sickness, or a need to be alone or something. Maybe crowding. But they almost 100% exclusively school
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage





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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1516 From: Tony Bittick Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Thank you. That's very helpful.

                                                                                                              Tony


                                                                                                              AT 10:49 AM 3/28/2004 Randy H offered the following words:
                                                                                                              Hello


                                                                                                              The Baensch Aquarium Atlas is a 3 volume set. I own all 3. These books are excellent and I highly recommend them.
                                                                                                              You can purchase them online at this address

                                                                                                              http://www.tropical-aquarium-fish.com/html/books.htm

                                                                                                              Wolfhunterco




                                                                                                              --- On Sun 03/28, Tony Bittick < tbittick@... > wrote:

                                                                                                              From: Tony Bittick [mailto: tbittick@...]
                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                              Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 07:57:04 -0500
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pleco question...

                                                                                                              Joe... I'd like to know more about the book you mention below.
                                                                                                              A search on Baensch Aquarium Atlas brings up different things. One if a listing at Amazon that reads
                                                                                                              Baensch Aquarium Atlas: Photo Index 1-5 and then listing that include several different volumes.

                                                                                                              Does one want to own ALL volumes, one specific volume...?




                                                                                                              At 01:36 AM 3/28/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                              Peggy,
                                                                                                              What started me with fish was a or 1/2 gallon aquarium, with green water, 1/3 full and one lonely-looking, apparently healthy Corydora Aeneus. He/she was in an empty apartment that was part of a building being converted into law-offices. One of the first things I did was get a larger tank, and a companion. I think it was 4-gallons, and as for the companion, I did'nt know the gender, but the stuff I found sticking to the aquarium walls that I thought were snail-eggs, I found much, much later to be the result of a successfully mated pair of Corys. I now have a 75 gallon tank, with a school of Corys' and an Otosynchlus and a couple Chinese algae eaters.
                                                                                                              An excerpt from the 'Baensch Aquarium Atlas', states:
                                                                                                              "These catfish always swim in schools, most often with several dozen of their species. Often they can be found in company of other species, depending on the depth of the water, and the time of the year. Generally three to six species may be found together, all searching for food in a closely-defined territory. The author was able to entice them with tablets and they came from some distance devouring the tablets from directly beneath the net. Once during our expedition, several thousand Corydora Garbeei were caught in our net. Such catches are rewarding, especially for local exporters, since to catch a dozen rare catfish is normally a long and laborious process.

                                                                                                              The following paragraph directly preceeded the above excerpt.

                                                                                                              While nearly 140 species are known to icthyologists, only thirty are commercially available, and just ten are captive bred. Virtually every river in South America has its own species or sub-species of Corydoras. On a recent trip to Transamazonica, the author crossed more than 50 streams and rivers and caught many fish. Often two or three species were caught together, and on occasion, more. When observed by artificial light, the Catfishes were found just a few inches above the bottom, in calm, shallow waters. They were easily captured by casting a net over them. By day, they could be seen swimming in the strongest current, in the very center of the stream. When fleeing capture they were as nimble as other, apparently more agile fishes. They always fled upstream, but quickly returned, sometimes in a few minutes, often in only seconds.
                                                                                                              They like being with one another. If you click on my yahoo nickname, there's a link to a site where I have some rather poor pictures of my aquarium, and if you look close, there will be at least one group of Cory Aeneus'.
                                                                                                              If there are exceptions to their schooling, it could be sickness, or a need to be alone or something. Maybe crowding. But they almost 100% exclusively school
                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage





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                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1517 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                H'lo all, and Tony,
                                                                                                                The link to the BAENSCH Atlas takes you to volume I. That's the volume I have, 'tho it's an older edition. For some reason, the entries at Amazon.com have very diverse entries for the Book/s/Series.
                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1518 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: books
                                                                                                                I have Dr Axelrod's 'Aquarium Fishes of the World'. Paid $35 for it at
                                                                                                                Border's locally. Definitely worth it.


                                                                                                                Theresa


                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                                To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:58 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pleco question...


                                                                                                                > Tony,
                                                                                                                > I checked the "Dr. Axelrods" (use the full title, or most of it)
                                                                                                                title in GOOGLE, and got reference at Amazon to it. It's also a good compact
                                                                                                                reference. Like I said, if I was starting again with what I have now, I'd
                                                                                                                buy both of them. And if I could afford only one, I'd choose either.
                                                                                                                > Joe P.
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1519 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: bottom feeders
                                                                                                                When I first got into fishkeeping I had this general idea in mind of
                                                                                                                bottomfeeders, kind of lumped them all together and wasn't particularly
                                                                                                                interested in keeping any.

                                                                                                                Another group I'm in has quite a few cory-addicts and when I was looking for
                                                                                                                fish to occupy the bottom of my tank talked me into buying some. Now I have
                                                                                                                3 types of cories and 2 types of loaches, and think they're all great fish.
                                                                                                                My group of six 3 lined cories are very entertaining to watch, the loaches
                                                                                                                have interesting personalities...it's definitely a shame people go into
                                                                                                                purchasing them with just a tank-cleaner notion in mind.


                                                                                                                Theresa

                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                                To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:07 PM
                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]Cory questions(was Pleco
                                                                                                                question...)


                                                                                                                > Peggy,
                                                                                                                > Just a thought. But one of the reasons Cory/Catfish are not generally
                                                                                                                on anyones priority list could be that they're not colorfull enough to get
                                                                                                                the attention they deserve, (unless they're big-enough to eat) and the
                                                                                                                language of attention does'nt emanate from a source that educates a
                                                                                                                customers desire for a catfish 'cuz they "keep -the-tank-clean". In other
                                                                                                                words, they're supposed to eat fish waste, and all the so called ugly stuff
                                                                                                                the topographical market has additives for. (like some algae, which is
                                                                                                                normal, and desireable,because it's nutrient, but would be killed by
                                                                                                                additives, along with your plants and possibly your biological filter). I
                                                                                                                was at a PetSmart lately, and an overwrought young woman wanted something (a
                                                                                                                fish/fishes) to keep her tank clean. The service person did'nt indicate that
                                                                                                                keeping the tank clean is'nt the fishs' responsibility, and I felt compelled
                                                                                                                to say the fish won't do it. One of my books indicates it's appalling that
                                                                                                                those kindly little Corys' are expected to eat fish-waste. The market is
                                                                                                                still driven by common attitudes.
                                                                                                                > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1520 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                Subject: Chaetostoma cf. thomsoni, A Chance Spawning
                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                  Peggy,
                                                                                                                     Had a little time, & found this. Still no info re: schooling, etc.
                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                                   http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworld/reproduction/chaetostoma_cf_thomsoni.htm
                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1521 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                  Subject: Species Summary
                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                    Peggy,
                                                                                                                       Found this in spare time, but nothing on grouping/solitary behaviour so far, xcept breeding.
                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                                     http://www.fishbase.org/summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?id=50068
                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1522 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                    Subject: What are these?
                                                                                                                    Hey all, I've posted a few new pics on my website I'd like a few of you to take a look at.  I somewhat remember another member talk about this, but didn't see a solution to it.  I have those teeny tiny "worms" all over my tank.  About 2000 of them, give or take a few hundred, LOL.  Anyway my setup is this.  I havn't had my canister filter on for a day or so because I'm doing a little remodification to it.  Also the only fish in there at the time I saw them was my pangus catfish.  I have since added 4 tiger barbs to it from another tank that I was going to transfer anyway, but thought that they could possibly eat them if nothing else.  My Ph is at 7.6, Nitrite and Ammonia at 0 and Nitrate at 20ppm.  Any wonder on how the little bugger got in there?  Will a pleco help, if so what kind, how many.  This is an 80 gal tank so I'm about ready to restock it with i think needle fish, havn't decided.  They look awesome and I should be able to get about 5 or so.  Any tips or ideas is greatly appreciated!  Thank you!

                                                                                                                    Edward
                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1523 From: Mary Ramsower, RVT Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Help? Rust?
                                                                                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Help?  Rust? Hi Julie.  Saw that you had responded to the list about this message and just wanted to let you know, if I receive a response, I'll make sure I forward it on.  Haven't heard from anyone yet though.

                                                                                                                    Thanks.  Dad is getting another blood transfusion tomorrow, but he is sounding better, so I guess that's something.

                                                                                                                    Mary
                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1524 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: NEW FRESHWATER TROPICAL AQUARIUM WEB SITE
                                                                                                                    In a message dated 3/27/2004 8:59:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, wolfhunterco@... writes:
                                                                                                                    Hello

                                                                                                                    I just found this Tropical Aquarium Fish web site. I thought you
                                                                                                                    might be interested.

                                                                                                                    http://www.tropical-aquarium-fish.com
                                                                                                                    Wow!
                                                                                                                    Only $429.oo for a thirty gallon filter!
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                    Mike
                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1525 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: What are these?
                                                                                                                    As far as worms, I've had them, and if I remember correctly, the last post you said they were flatworms. It may take a doctorate to correctly inentify them, if you're wrong. I've had them, and they can be brought in by fish, plants, snails, food, substrate. Can't say how I got rid of them, 'tho not overfeeding, and keeping the tank clean helps. Have'nt seen them in the tank for a long time, and in the past I've tried the chemicals recommended for them. That may mitigate, if not eliminate the prob. Seems the worst culprit so far has been pond-snails. I kept some in a one gallon aerated tank to see what happens, and soon the tank was crawling with worms. There's a write-up in one of my books about the life-cycle of pond-snails/parasites/worms, and mentioned is the alleged fact that buying plants that have been grown hydroponically, and not in pond-farms can ensure a worm free tank. An argument against that theory stated something like there's a scientific glitch in that argument.
                                                                                                                    If you're sure they're flat-worms, you could try a GOGLE search. They usually have something about almost anything.
                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1526 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: What are these?
                                                                                                                    They don't look like the pictures of flatworms I remember from grade or high-school biology., and they don't look so tiny. If they're parasitical, it could be a reason for recent fish deaths if you had any. I've seen worms in my tank, and one of them was seen on a female Betta, one end of the worm braced on the fish and I guess the anterior pushing to pry a way under the scale. They can be deadly in people and cats and dogs, but the teeny fish can be overcome that much more quickly because of size. I would'nt expect the fish to handle their elimination, unless the worms are non-parasitical and edible.
                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1527 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 3/28/2004
                                                                                                                    Subject: Algone.com - Worms in the Aquarium
                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                         This is ONE link on worms in the etc. The first link I found considered ALL worms in the aquarium as flatworms, so I did'nt send it. That article did have some good advice about how to clean the tank o help eliminate worms though. The state of knowledge on the subject worms/parasites in aquariums can lead you into errant conclusions. Not every first page of a search has the right information.
                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                                       http://www.algone.com/worms.htm
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1528 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algone.com - Worms in the Aquarium

                                                                                                                      Joe, I have never had Flatworms so I also cannot identify them even a littlebit. But if they are parasitic type and none of the medication works, a sure shot solution (not the easiest and best for your fish) is a dose of Levasimol (Levacide hydrochloride) its an injection used by vets to treat larger cattle but dosing the tank with 1ml per gallon of a 7.5% solution will kill any worms in there. I had used this treatment for camellanus worms when everything failed. But a 100% water change is needed after 24 hrs of treatment along with vigorous gravel vac to remove the eggs and dead worms. The treatment worked like a wonder and camellanus was gone within a week. If they re-appear, a repeat treatment after a couple of months may be required. But these were for internal worms, not sure what type are these and maybe something less stressful could help.

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      Levacide is very stressfull to the fish as well. On some recommendation I tried a group of 6 tiger barbs with a double dose for 30 mins and within 2 mins of subjecting to a double dose they were swimming upside down with a total loss of orientation. I immediately moved them to cleaner water and took over 12 hrs to recover back to their natural orientation. These were tiger barbs so survived, something else may not.

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      If you want to use this medication, use it as the last stage as you may have to go thru a mini cycle again and also be very careful with the dosage and the post dosage cleaup. And for biggeners, please do not even think about trying this just coz it is available. After struggling with Waterlife (UK based products and medication manufacturer) they did test it and did some work and finally came up with an answer that with a 100% success rate and a 90% change of getting things done incorrectly and when done incorrectly a 90% mortality rate, they could not possibally market this treatment even for a disease as determined as camalanus.

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                      From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                                      Sent: 29 March 2004 08:32
                                                                                                                      To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algone.com - Worms in the Aquarium

                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                      Hi,

                                                                                                                         This is ONE link on worms in the etc. The first link I found considered ALL worms in the aquarium as flatworms, so I did'nt send it. That article did have some good advice about how to clean the tank o help eliminate worms though. The state of knowledge on the subject worms/parasites in aquariums can lead you into errant conclusions. Not every first page of a search has the right information.

                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                       http://www.algone.com/worms.htm

                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1529 From: Jonathan Short Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: would they mix?
                                                                                                                      Sorry to confuse, I gave my measurements in CM not INCHES lol
                                                                                                                      Typical brit hey?
                                                                                                                      But thanks for that

                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                      j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                      > I think coldwater fish should be kept in a coldwater
                                                                                                                      environment. When I had goldfish in a 70 gallon tank, and tropicals
                                                                                                                      in a 70 or 75, I fussed about temperature, but could'nt do anything
                                                                                                                      about the goldfish short of buying a water-chiller, which costs
                                                                                                                      about as much as a higher BTU air-conditioner, and I told myself I
                                                                                                                      could'nt afford that. To keep the summer temperatures down, I kept a
                                                                                                                      25,000 BTU air-conditioner running day and night, but all things
                                                                                                                      considered, both tanks ended-up with about the 78-degree tropical
                                                                                                                      temp. The air-conditioner was there to keep the room from getting
                                                                                                                      too hot, and for stability the average temperature somehow was best
                                                                                                                      adjusted by having heaters in both tanks, and tropical temps
                                                                                                                      ruled, 'cuz I would'nt/could'nt buy a water chiller for the cold-
                                                                                                                      water goldfish. If you can afford it, get a bigger tank for the
                                                                                                                      Black-Moors, and buy a water-chiller. That could set you back
                                                                                                                      between 500 and 1,000 dollars, and that's why I did'nt do it.
                                                                                                                      > But if I could, I'd buy anything needed.
                                                                                                                      > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                      > > Ok I've finally upgraded to a bigger tank. It's not exactly
                                                                                                                      massive
                                                                                                                      > > by comparison of some of the memebers tank, but never the
                                                                                                                      less....
                                                                                                                      > > It's a 21 gallon 80x40x30. It's really nice, I love it.
                                                                                                                      > > But the question is....
                                                                                                                      > > What should I keep in it??
                                                                                                                      > > I've already decided to keep cichlids and maybe parrot fish, but
                                                                                                                      I
                                                                                                                      > > am still a newbie in the hobby and could do with a hand.
                                                                                                                      > > I have some Black moors in a coldwater tank, but the tank is
                                                                                                                      small
                                                                                                                      > > and I'd lvoe to give them a bigger home. So I wondered,
                                                                                                                      > > Could Black Moors be kept with Cichilids, but more to the point,
                                                                                                                      > > would they be ok in a higher temperature environment???
                                                                                                                      > > Am I being thick? Just say if I am.....
                                                                                                                      > > Also, is there anything in particular that you should'nt keep
                                                                                                                      with
                                                                                                                      > > cichlids at all?
                                                                                                                      > > ie, You don't put two male siamese fighters together.
                                                                                                                      > > Does anyone have any good or bad experiences with cichlids?
                                                                                                                      > > Please get back to me on this, I'm currently cycling the tank
                                                                                                                      and
                                                                                                                      > > I'll be buying in about 5 more days
                                                                                                                      > > Thanks a lot :)
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1530 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algone.com - Worms in the Aquarium
                                                                                                                      Thanks Joe, that really helped.  It seems that mine our roundworms and my fish should hopefully have a banquet on them for the next few days.  I think I'm going to pick up a few plecos anyway to help speed along the process.  Thank you again!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Edward
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:32 AM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algone.com - Worms in the Aquarium

                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                         This is ONE link on worms in the etc. The first link I found considered ALL worms in the aquarium as flatworms, so I did'nt send it. That article did have some good advice about how to clean the tank o help eliminate worms though. The state of knowledge on the subject worms/parasites in aquariums can lead you into errant conclusions. Not every first page of a search has the right information.
                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                                       http://www.algone.com/worms.htm
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1531 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                                      I've also got an old timer cory, blind in 1 eye but still kicking after
                                                                                                                      9 or 10 years...

                                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1532 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                                      Don't feel bad about the skull, Peggy. I am a huge Blue Oyster Cult fan
                                                                                                                      and I will always keep my big plastic Godzilla (homage to the '77 tune)
                                                                                                                      in what ever my largest tank is at the time. Everything else in the
                                                                                                                      tank is natual or at least natural looing and Godzilla smack in the
                                                                                                                      middle, looking as if he's about to storm out, looking to crush
                                                                                                                      Tokyo.........GO GO GODZILLA! :-))

                                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1533 From: vivaclint Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Silver Arowana for Sale
                                                                                                                      Silver Arowana for Sale. Beautiful patterns of orangy-red appears on
                                                                                                                      its whole body. Size: 2 feet(24 inches). Kept in a 5x2x2 feet
                                                                                                                      aquarium. Price: RM 580(negotiable). Location: in Kuala Lumpur(ttdi).
                                                                                                                      Phone no. 013-2097991/03-77288570 -Clint.

                                                                                                                      A giant gouramy(indonesian) is also for sale for RM 100(neg.), size:
                                                                                                                      approx. 20 inches. pls do not buy this gouramy to eat it(I love my
                                                                                                                      fishes).
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1534 From: freedombell2002 Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: What are these? asking about needle fish
                                                                                                                      hello

                                                                                                                      Needle fish? what kind of needle fish are you talking about?

                                                                                                                      First thing that popped in my head was a needlenose gar. Is this what
                                                                                                                      you are talking about? Sherrie

                                                                                                                      P.S. I owned one very aggressive only ate live feeders (but was very
                                                                                                                      cool to watch eat) the frist week he ate 4 scissor tails and 4 tetas
                                                                                                                      :(
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1535 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Cory questions
                                                                                                                      Thanks Theresa!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      This weekend I will be going on a Corydoras search!  When I first started keeping aquariums and was looking for a catfish, these Corydoras loxozonus were the only ones around - now that was 12 years ago, now I haven't seen them anywhere.  I moved to a new area a year ago and the only real LFS in this area are actually pet stores, like PetSmart, Petco, Pet Value so I'm going to be going farther afield to look for some healthy Corys.  Where I used to live there were a number of good LFS, one in particular could get me live blood worms and other live foods plus would special order me fish.  (I really miss that LFS!)  When I first started getting into African Cichlids they didn't even have names for them, the tanks all had in general names like "African Cichlid, Lake Malawi" etc.  Now I see them everywhere, even at PetSmart and they all have names!  The whole world of aquarium fish has changed on me and what I thought was rare is now common and what I thought was common is now rare!  Sheesh!  LOL!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      There have been a few times over the years when I was going to give up keeping fish but as long as I have this Corydoras I will always have fish.  When I've gotten down to where I have no fish left (3 times in 12 years), it always seems like a shame to keep a tank running and only have the Cory in there all by himself.  So then I go and buy more fish.  Explains why I only have the danio's and Betta in there.  I had no idea what sort of fish I wanted to try since I've been out of the loop for so long, the African Cichlids lived a long time and so did all of the Monodacylus.  I feel like I'm entering a whole new world again.  (It's fun!)
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Peggy
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:25 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Cory questions

                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I'd never heard of that cory so I checked out the pictures, very nice! It reminds me of a panda/3 lined combo.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I have 3 types of cories. At one point I had pepperd and 3 lined together in one tank, 3 of each. While they technically didn't school, they hung out together, ate together, swam together. No problems. Maybe if you can't find that particular one a lfs might order it for you, or check something like Aquabid or another online fish store.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      One thing I've found with cories is the more the merrier :) Even going from a group of 4 to 6 makes a big difference.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Have fun, I think they're great fish.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Theresa
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: Peggy
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:54 AM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]Cory questions(was Pleco question...)

                                                                                                                      Joe, all I can say is WOW!!!  And I wish I had known you when I first started with fish!  Plus, I am feeling guilty now for not having researched the Corydora's in all of these years.  My poor Cory has been alone all of this time and me totally oblivious to the fact that they like to school.  It's weird but with all of the other fish I've always tried to learn what I could but never about catfish.  I think I originally got him because when I started I had one of those little pamphlet books ("My First Aquarium" or something like that.) and it just said for the bottom of the tank to get a catfish.  So I just got whatever catfish was at the LFS and never gave it another thought. Fortunately I still have a lot of room in this tank so getting a few more Cory's will not be a problem.  In fact, I'm a little excited about it because I'm curious to see how my Cory reacts.  He/she has been out a lot more since adding the pleco (how about pleco's?  Do they also school?  They still have some from the same group at the LFS that I could get.)  The corydora I have is Corydoras loxozonus  from the pictures I found at PlanetCatfish http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/callicht/corydora/779_f.php(took a bit of searching to find one that matches my Cory.)  Now, if I can't find a cordoras loxozonus would other corydora species work??  I bought this guy a long time ago and I've really never looked at catfish since so I'm not sure what's common and/or easy to find now. 
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Thank you so much for your help, Joe, at lastmy Corydoras will have some friends, thanks to you!!!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Peggy
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1536 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
                                                                                                                      Joe, thank you again for the great info.  I'm going to be going Corydoras hunting this weekend.  (If not sooner, I'm really getting excited about getting some friends for my loyal little Cory.)  If I can find a decent LFS that isn't too far away I'm hoping I'll be able to find the same species or at least some that are very close. 
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      What you say about the misconception of "bottom dwellers" is so true.  As I was telling you, when I first started it was just like "Get a catfish for the bottom of the tank and he'll take care of fish waste and uneaten food."  My cory has always gotten good food, plus algae tablets (not to mention various plants he has sampled over the years!) but still, I never gave him much thought except that I have a lot of respect for his longevity.  Like everyone, over the years I've had my share of aqaurium problems.  I've lost some nice fish but Corydoras has come through everything.  Diseases, malfunctions all sorts of things, he keeps hanging in there.  Never seems the worse for wear, either.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I appreciate you looking for the Pleco info.  I didn't find anything on the Net about them schooling, I may just get one or two more,  just in case.  They told me at the store where I got him that he should only grow to about 5 inches and I think the algae in my tank is more than one little pleco can deal with. 
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Thank you again!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Peggy  
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:49 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]Cory questions(was Pleco question...)

                                                                                                                         Peggy,
                                                                                                                           I'm not an expert. What I've experienced about Corys' when two or more of that species are in he same tank together, is that they tend to group within their genus, and mingle at times, especially at feeding time. I think Paleatus and Aeneus would group together more than the black and white spotted/striped fish. I remember about four black and white, striped/spotted (I can't remember which type, two different types, resting in different parts of the tank from the predominant numbers of Aeneus'. But they would mingle at times,esp. at feeding. There was never a fuss about territoriality among any of them at any time. In fact, I had three female Bettas', one of which was older, and afflicted with lymphocystis, who became territorial in her old-age/affliction, and when she regularly harrassed the two other females who passed by her little spot, the Corys' broke up the confrontation rather quietly. When the scientists label the species 'peaceful', their behaviour really exemplified that description in my experience.The nasty theatrical reference to 'bottom-dwellers' in cops and robbers dramas, referring to criminals as 'bottom'dwellers' is mis-anthropic. Somebody should scold them, and point out that they don't have wings, among other things.
                                                                                                                         As for PLECOSTOMUSES', I had an experience with one that a co-worker brought to me 'cause it outgrew his tank, and while I had a 75 gallon at the time, I thought he was too big for my tank and called PetSmart to see if they would take him. They said 'no', it's not policy, but one of their staff could accomodate him in their pond over summer, and keep him indoors during cold weather. I know some of them can grow quite-large, and I've never seen anything but solitary Plecos' in Fish-Stores. If there are smaller ones that school, I don't know that. If I have time today, I'll try looking for that information.
                                                                                                                                           Joe Pascavagew

                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1537 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: bottom feeders
                                                                                                                      This is all so true, Theresa.  That was my attitude about the Corydoras - I never gave them much thought.  I did have Khuli loaches when I had my brackish water tank and they were neat.  I enjoyed watching them a lot, they were pretty amusing.  Once I add a few more Corys they should be fun to watch as well.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Peggy
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:17 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: bottom feeders

                                                                                                                      When I first got into fishkeeping I had this general idea in mind of
                                                                                                                      bottomfeeders, kind of lumped them all together and wasn't particularly
                                                                                                                      interested in keeping any.

                                                                                                                      Another group I'm in has quite a few cory-addicts and when I was looking for
                                                                                                                      fish to occupy the bottom of my tank talked me into buying some. Now I have
                                                                                                                      3 types of cories and 2 types of loaches, and think they're all great fish.
                                                                                                                      My group of six 3 lined cories are very entertaining to watch, the loaches
                                                                                                                      have interesting personalities...it's definitely a shame people go into
                                                                                                                      purchasing them with just a tank-cleaner notion in mind.


                                                                                                                      Theresa

                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                                      To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:07 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]Cory questions(was Pleco
                                                                                                                      question...)


                                                                                                                      >   Peggy,
                                                                                                                      >     Just a thought. But one of the reasons Cory/Catfish are not generally
                                                                                                                      on anyones priority list could be that they're not colorfull enough to get
                                                                                                                      the attention they deserve, (unless they're big-enough to eat) and the
                                                                                                                      language of attention does'nt emanate from a source that educates a
                                                                                                                      customers desire for a catfish 'cuz they "keep -the-tank-clean". In other
                                                                                                                      words, they're supposed to eat fish waste, and all the so called ugly stuff
                                                                                                                      the topographical market has additives for. (like some algae, which is
                                                                                                                      normal, and desireable,because it's nutrient, but would be killed by
                                                                                                                      additives, along with your plants and possibly your biological filter). I
                                                                                                                      was at a PetSmart lately, and an overwrought young woman wanted something (a
                                                                                                                      fish/fishes) to keep her tank clean. The service person did'nt indicate that
                                                                                                                      keeping the tank clean is'nt the fishs' responsibility, and I felt compelled
                                                                                                                      to say the fish won't do it. One of my books indicates it's appalling that
                                                                                                                      those kindly little Corys' are expected to eat fish-waste. The market is
                                                                                                                      still driven by common attitudes.
                                                                                                                      >                             Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                      >                         Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >



                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1538 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: What are these?
                                                                                                                      Edward,
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Ewwwwwwww!!!!!!  I've never had worms like that stuck to my tank!  You're taking it pretty well, I would have been flipping out if I went to look at my fish and found worms on the inside glass!   Ewwwwwww!!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Peggy
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:38 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What are these?

                                                                                                                      Hey all, I've posted a few new pics on my website I'd like a few of you to take a look at.  I somewhat remember another member talk about this, but didn't see a solution to it.  I have those teeny tiny "worms" all over my tank.  About 2000 of them, give or take a few hundred, LOL.  Anyway my setup is this.  I havn't had my canister filter on for a day or so because I'm doing a little remodification to it.  Also the only fish in there at the time I saw them was my pangus catfish.  I have since added 4 tiger barbs to it from another tank that I was going to transfer anyway, but thought that they could possibly eat them if nothing else.  My Ph is at 7.6, Nitrite and Ammonia at 0 and Nitrate at 20ppm.  Any wonder on how the little bugger got in there?  Will a pleco help, if so what kind, how many.  This is an 80 gal tank so I'm about ready to restock it with i think needle fish, havn't decided.  They look awesome and I should be able to get about 5 or so.  Any tips or ideas is greatly appreciated!  Thank you!

                                                                                                                      Edward
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1539 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: What are these?
                                                                                                                      Hey Peggy, well the good news is that I woke up this morning to find that the majority of them have been taken care of by my Tiger Barbs.  I added 2 sm. plecos today to speed up the process and get all the gunk that might have been left behind.  I'm just going to let nature take care of itself and not feed the barbs for a few days.  That should get them to eat 99.9% of these buggers and I'll let the pleco's take care of the rest.  To me it's a lot better than adding chemicals to the tank.  I think there is already a skull and cross bones on my tank from earlier "flipping outs!"  LOL
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Take care,

                                                                                                                      Edward
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: Peggy
                                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:24 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What are these?

                                                                                                                      Edward,
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Ewwwwwwww!!!!!!  I've never had worms like that stuck to my tank!  You're taking it pretty well, I would have been flipping out if I went to look at my fish and found worms on the inside glass!   Ewwwwwww!!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Peggy
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:38 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What are these?

                                                                                                                      Hey all, I've posted a few new pics on my website I'd like a few of you to take a look at.  I somewhat remember another member talk about this, but didn't see a solution to it.  I have those teeny tiny "worms" all over my tank.  About 2000 of them, give or take a few hundred, LOL.  Anyway my setup is this.  I havn't had my canister filter on for a day or so because I'm doing a little remodification to it.  Also the only fish in there at the time I saw them was my pangus catfish.  I have since added 4 tiger barbs to it from another tank that I was going to transfer anyway, but thought that they could possibly eat them if nothing else.  My Ph is at 7.6, Nitrite and Ammonia at 0 and Nitrate at 20ppm.  Any wonder on how the little bugger got in there?  Will a pleco help, if so what kind, how many.  This is an 80 gal tank so I'm about ready to restock it with i think needle fish, havn't decided.  They look awesome and I should be able to get about 5 or so.  Any tips or ideas is greatly appreciated!  Thank you!

                                                                                                                      Edward

                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1540 From: Peggy Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                                      Thanks for the chuckle about the Blue Oyster Cult gorilla!  (I always liked BOC too!  Still do.)  I bought the skull for my original 10 gallon tank because I thought it was cool and plus it glowed (faintly) in the dark when the lights were out.  My corydoras made it his home right away and so I've always moved it into every tank I've had so that he wouldn't lose his home.  Over the years I've gone for a much more natural look to my aquariums, I try to match the enviroment to the fish as much as I can.  But than there's this skull!!   Ha ha!  But it keeps Cory happy.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Peggy
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:33 AM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pleco question...

                                                                                                                      Don't feel bad about the skull, Peggy.  I am a huge Blue Oyster Cult fan
                                                                                                                      and I will always keep my big plastic Godzilla (homage to the '77 tune)
                                                                                                                      in what ever my largest tank is at the time.  Everything else in the
                                                                                                                      tank is natual or at least natural looing and Godzilla smack in the
                                                                                                                      middle, looking as if he's about to storm out, looking to crush
                                                                                                                      Tokyo.........GO GO GODZILLA!  :-))

                                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!

                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1541 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: What are these? asking about needle fish
                                                                                                                      Hey Sherrie,  there not gar at all.  I don't think.  They have them at PetsMart and another LFS.  Very slender, all silver with a very long mouth.  I'd say the mouth is at least 1/3 of the total length of the fish, which can grow to 10+"!  They only eat live feeders and I know that's a load on the waste, but I have a fairly large filter and am only going to feed a few times a week.  Probably start raising my own feeders to save a few pennies.  I'll try to get some more info on them and pass it along!

                                                                                                                      Take care,
                                                                                                                      Edward
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:42 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: What are these? asking about needle fish

                                                                                                                      hello

                                                                                                                      Needle fish? what kind of needle fish are you talking about?

                                                                                                                      First thing that popped in my head was a needlenose gar. Is this what
                                                                                                                      you are talking about?  Sherrie

                                                                                                                      P.S. I owned one very aggressive only ate live feeders (but was very
                                                                                                                      cool to watch eat) the frist week he ate 4 scissor tails and 4 tetas
                                                                                                                      :(


                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1542 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: bottom feeders/kuhlis
                                                                                                                      Ok here's a nice-wife story about kuhlis :) A while ago I started researching loaches for my 29g. Even though many people don't have huge tanks and/or a lot of availabe tank space I could only find clowns at the lfs here.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Doing some searing online I found an awesome fs about an hour's drive for us. My very patient-with-his-wife's-fish-addiction husband took me and I found some queens (botia dario). Great fish but unfortunately a couple weeks later one died of unknown causes. Husband offers to drive me to the great fs again...while looking for another queen my husband finds the kuhli tank and is absolutely fascinated.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I have to tell you since he knows, I really really really dislike worms, snakes, etc. And here this tank full of these wormy-snake-like fish <shiver> During my reasearch for a potential loach I did read about kuhlis and they were a possibility, just that worm-snake issue lol
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      So long story short, the nice wife says 'alright, you like them a lot and it's nice when you show an interest in my hobby so we'll get them'. And I have to admit they are cool fish. A bit shy the first couple days; I attributed that to being in a new tank and that they're relatively nocturnal.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I work nights and it's been fun having some entertaining fish company while I get ready for work. And they're also out more often during the day now as well.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Theresa
                                                                                                                      ~~~
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: Peggy
                                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:18 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: bottom feeders

                                                                                                                      This is all so true, Theresa.  That was my attitude about the Corydoras - I never gave them much thought.  I did have Khuli loaches when I had my brackish water tank and they were neat.  I enjoyed watching them a lot, they were pretty amusing.  Once I add a few more Corys they should be fun to watch as well.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Peggy
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:17 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: bottom feeders

                                                                                                                      When I first got into fishkeeping I had this general idea in mind of
                                                                                                                      bottomfeeders, kind of lumped them all together and wasn't particularly
                                                                                                                      interested in keeping any.

                                                                                                                      Another group I'm in has quite a few cory-addicts and when I was looking for
                                                                                                                      fish to occupy the bottom of my tank talked me into buying some. Now I have
                                                                                                                      3 types of cories and 2 types of loaches, and think they're all great fish.
                                                                                                                      My group of six 3 lined cories are very entertaining to watch, the loaches
                                                                                                                      have interesting personalities...it's definitely a shame people go into
                                                                                                                      purchasing them with just a tank-cleaner notion in mind.


                                                                                                                      Theresa
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1543 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: bottom feeders/kuhlis
                                                                                                                      i've had kuhli's for years and i just love them. they're some of the
                                                                                                                      cutest fish i've ever seen, especially if you can get your hands on a
                                                                                                                      social one...
                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                      On Mar 29, 2004, at 10:01 PM, Dan & Theresa wrote:

                                                                                                                      > Ok here's a nice-wife story about kuhlis :) A while ago I started
                                                                                                                      > researching loaches for my 29g. Even though many people don't have
                                                                                                                      > huge tanks and/or a lot of availabe tank space I could only find
                                                                                                                      > clowns at the lfs here.
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      > Doing some searing online I found an awesome fs about an hour's drive
                                                                                                                      > for us. My very patient-with-his-wife's-fish-addiction husband took me
                                                                                                                      > and I found some queens (botia dario). Great fish but unfortunately a
                                                                                                                      > couple weeks later one died of unknown causes. Husband offers to drive
                                                                                                                      > me to the great fs again...while looking for another queen my husband
                                                                                                                      > finds the kuhli tank and is absolutely fascinated.
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      > I have to tell you since he knows, I really really really dislike
                                                                                                                      > worms, snakes, etc. And here this tank full of these wormy-snake-like
                                                                                                                      > fish <shiver> During my reasearch for a potential loach I did read
                                                                                                                      > about kuhlis and they were a possibility, just that worm-snake issue
                                                                                                                      > lol
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      > So long story short, the nice wife says 'alright, you like them a lot
                                                                                                                      > and it's nice when you show an interest in my hobby so we'll get
                                                                                                                      > them'. And I have to admit they are cool fish. A bit shy the first
                                                                                                                      > couple days; I attributed that to being in a new tank and that they're
                                                                                                                      > relatively nocturnal.
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      > I work nights and it's been fun having some entertaining fish company
                                                                                                                      > while I get ready for work. And they're also out more often during the
                                                                                                                      > day now as well.
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      > Theresa
                                                                                                                      > ~~~
                                                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      > From: Peggy
                                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                      > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:18 PM
                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: bottom feeders
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > This is all so true, Theresa.  That was my attitude about the
                                                                                                                      > Corydoras - I never gave them much thought.  I did have Khuli loaches
                                                                                                                      > when I had my brackish water tank and they were neat.  I enjoyed
                                                                                                                      > watching them a lot, they were pretty amusing.  Once I add a few more
                                                                                                                      > Corys they should be fun to watch as well.
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      > Peggy
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      > From: Dan & Theresa
                                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                      > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:17 PM
                                                                                                                      > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: bottom feeders
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > When I first got into fishkeeping I had this general idea in mind of
                                                                                                                      > bottomfeeders, kind of lumped them all together and wasn't particularly
                                                                                                                      > interested in keeping any.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Another group I'm in has quite a few cory-addicts and when I was
                                                                                                                      > looking for
                                                                                                                      > fish to occupy the bottom of my tank talked me into buying some. Now I
                                                                                                                      > have
                                                                                                                      > 3 types of cories and 2 types of loaches, and think they're all great
                                                                                                                      > fish.
                                                                                                                      > My group of six 3 lined cories are very entertaining to watch, the
                                                                                                                      > loaches
                                                                                                                      > have interesting personalities...it's definitely a shame people go into
                                                                                                                      > purchasing them with just a tank-cleaner notion in mind.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Theresa
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                                                      >  
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                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1544 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/29/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: bottom feeders/kuhlis
                                                                                                                      The bottom feeders I've had experience have the greatest personalities. It's
                                                                                                                      3am here and my silly kuhlis are playing together in the bubble wall :)


                                                                                                                      Theresa
                                                                                                                      ~~~

                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                      To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:12 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: bottom feeders/kuhlis


                                                                                                                      i've had kuhli's for years and i just love them. they're some of the
                                                                                                                      cutest fish i've ever seen, especially if you can get your hands on a
                                                                                                                      social one...
                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1545 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
                                                                                                                      It's not been my experience that any plecos school. When the smaller
                                                                                                                      species cohabitate, everyone gets along fine. It has been my experience
                                                                                                                      though, that large commons, rhinos, gibbiceps and chocolates will
                                                                                                                      occasionally do battle. I also have several species of cories housed
                                                                                                                      together who pretty much do school together whenever harassed by other
                                                                                                                      fish, but will still keep a loose bond when every thing is mellow.

                                                                                                                      Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1546 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Cory questions(was Pleco question...)
                                                                                                                      There are several species of Tanginykan shell dwelling cichlids that do
                                                                                                                      actually eat fish poop. Many are very docile and can be added to some
                                                                                                                      medium to large tanks. Asking a cory or pleco to eat fecal matter is
                                                                                                                      just ridiculous though, but I hear it almost every day at the store.
                                                                                                                      Good point Joe. Makes you want to grab those employees by their green
                                                                                                                      shirts and give 'em a good shake, doesn't it? When I hear
                                                                                                                      misinformation, I won't hesitate to correct another stores employee.
                                                                                                                      Rather the person be well informed than not, ya know?

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1547 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: would they mix?
                                                                                                                      Jonathan, since your message was dated Sun, and it's Tue morning, your
                                                                                                                      message has probably been answered. But here goes anyway, absolutely
                                                                                                                      NOT. Goldfish will be killed by most common cichlids, most are, in
                                                                                                                      fact, Lake Malawi(Africa) or south American cichlids that are for sale
                                                                                                                      at reasonable prices. If the cichlids in question are under $10 US,
                                                                                                                      that is. Also, almost all cichlids are very sensitive to nitrates and
                                                                                                                      as you probably know, goldfish create lots of waste, thus lots of
                                                                                                                      nitrates. Besides, as the cichlids grow, if starting from juvies, they
                                                                                                                      will pummel the slower moving goldfish out of their territories. Just a
                                                                                                                      bad idea. Goldfish are the result of many hundreds of years of humanity
                                                                                                                      selectively breeding them and they share little in common with their
                                                                                                                      original species. Depending on the cichlids, most should be kept in
                                                                                                                      primarily cichlid only tanks. There are many that will do fine in
                                                                                                                      community tanks large enough, plus many dwarf species, kribs, rams,
                                                                                                                      appistos, julies, neolamps, angels (definately not a dwarf) and more,
                                                                                                                      but none of these should be kept with goldfish either.

                                                                                                                      I don't have the info here, but what does your tank translate to in
                                                                                                                      inches? Just curious cause it sounds familiar.

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1548 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Opinion on cleaning aquarium
                                                                                                                      Absolutely right Ron. I'm so busy, I don't have the time I used to,
                                                                                                                      however, my fish seem much happier without me screwing around in their
                                                                                                                      tanks so much. I do maintenance on my filters only as needed, depends
                                                                                                                      on the filter and only do 25 % water changes every other week, except my
                                                                                                                      maine tank which uses a BioScenic filter and that gets changes ever 6
                                                                                                                      weeks or so. Not checking any calendars on that one, just when my test
                                                                                                                      shows any nitrates.

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1549 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: HELP........ Please!!
                                                                                                                      HELP...   Our Black Ghost Knife is doing a very odd thing and I have not been able to find any information regarding it.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Sunday morning when I got up, it appeared as though he was loosing his color.... His entire body was a washed out looking shade of grey/white.   By Sunday afternoon his color was back to normal and had stayed that way until this morning... I just fed the tank and when he came out, once again his color is faded....  
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      All water checks are 100% via our test kits as well as our LFS, as I took a sample in yesterday to double check after what had happened on Sunday.   The Owner of our LFS had never heard of that and had no advice for us, which is unusual as he is usually right on the money with everything.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      We have had him for over 6 months and have done nothing different and haven't even added any new fish to that tank in 3 months!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If anyone has any idea's, thoughts, opinions, websites etc.... I would really appreciate your help!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Kelly
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1550 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Help? Rust?
                                                                                                                      Hey, Mary my thoughts are with your dad. That rust is just algae or
                                                                                                                      diatoms. I suggest you add a pouch of Phos Sorb by Aquarium Pharm. to
                                                                                                                      your filter. It removes phosphorus and silicates. Algae need
                                                                                                                      phosphates and diatoms need silicates, thus the benefit of Phos Sorb. I
                                                                                                                      sell it for around $6, but I'm not sure what other places sell it for.

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1551 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: first post and my first flat worm problem
                                                                                                                      Formalyn should work just fine, hear that Edward? :-)

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1552 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: What are these?
                                                                                                                      Ahhh, glad the natural approach worked for you Edward. The only tank I
                                                                                                                      ever had those worms was a 15 gallon, so tigers were out of the
                                                                                                                      question. Formalyn got rid of them though. It did seem to knock back
                                                                                                                      my biofiltration, though. Or maybe it was from the worms and pond
                                                                                                                      snails dieing, who knows, thank God their gone, though.

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1553 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Pleco question...
                                                                                                                      So Peggy, what you saying is your cory is trailer trash 'cause he lives
                                                                                                                      in a mobile home?

                                                                                                                      Now, don't all you folks that live in mobile homes come looking to kill
                                                                                                                      me, just joking :-)=)

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1554 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: HELP........ Please!!
                                                                                                                      What other fish do you keep with the ghost? They might be harrassing
                                                                                                                      it. Also, taake a close look to see if it's excess sime coat. If so,
                                                                                                                      it might be bacterial or parasitic. Any other recen changes to the
                                                                                                                      tank, new guys, large water change?

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1555 From: Rhianna (Annie) Garlough Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Canister filter recommendations?
                                                                                                                      I'm looking to replace my now dead Fluval 404 (ran for over 2 years
                                                                                                                      without a prob) with a new canister filter. I currently have a 75
                                                                                                                      gallon planted setup w/o CO2 supplementation and a small fish load.

                                                                                                                      I'm debating whether or not to stick with the Fluval brand mainly
                                                                                                                      because I have a custom return system to keep the water flow back to
                                                                                                                      the tank without disturbing the plants. If I change brands, I'm
                                                                                                                      going to have to do some rebuilding...

                                                                                                                      If anyone has any suggestions about what direction I should go,
                                                                                                                      please let me know!!!

                                                                                                                      Thanks!!!

                                                                                                                      Annie
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1556 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: HELP........ Please!!
                                                                                                                       The Ghost is in one of our community tanks with
                                                                                                                      a school of 8 zebra danio's
                                                                                                                      3 gourami's
                                                                                                                      8 painted tetra's
                                                                                                                      4 cory's
                                                                                                                      a good sized silver dollar
                                                                                                                      an albino shark
                                                                                                                      a pair of red velvet swordtails
                                                                                                                      3 platy's
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      All of the fish have been in the tank together from between 3-6 months.  Other than weekly water changes nothing new has been added or done to the tank in 3 months.... we have lost no fish etc etc.    I just checked him again and his color is once again coming back.... It is still faded a bit, but not like it was!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I hope this information helps you to help me!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Kelly
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Date: 03/30/04 10:59:41
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] HELP........ Please!!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      What other fish do you keep with the ghost?  They might be harrassing
                                                                                                                      it.  Also, taake a close look to see if it's excess sime coat.  If so,
                                                                                                                      it might be bacterial or parasitic.   Any other recen changes to the
                                                                                                                      tank, new guys, large water change?

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"

                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1557 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: HELP........ Please!!
                                                                                                                      I have tried to keep black ghost knives many time over the years with no success.  I always figured it was becaiuse I kept my water too hard for Co2 reasons.  Very often the fish would look very grey before they died.  Someone once told it was because the hard water made it hard for them to maintain the slime coat on their skin and this caused them to die.  How hard is your water? and does this maybe coincide with water changes?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                          Andreas
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      In a message dated 3/30/2004 8:42:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, dreamz64@... writes:
                                                                                                                      HELP...   Our Black Ghost Knife is doing a very odd thing and I have not been able to find any information regarding it.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Sunday morning when I got up, it appeared as though he was loosing his color.... His entire body was a washed out looking shade of grey/white.   By Sunday afternoon his color was back to normal and had stayed that way until this morning... I just fed the tank and when he came out, once again his color is faded....  
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      All water checks are 100% via our test kits as well as our LFS, as I took a sample in yesterday to double check after what had happened on Sunday.   The Owner of our LFS had never heard of that and had no advice for us, which is unusual as he is usually right on the money with everything.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      We have had him for over 6 months and have done nothing different and haven't even added any new fish to that tank in 3 months!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If anyone has any idea's, thoughts, opinions, websites etc.... I would really appreciate your help!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Kelly



                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1558 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: HELP........ Please!!
                                                                                                                       Hi Andreas....... The only way that I have to check my water for hardness is with the 5 in 1 dipsticks.... It is not registering in the hard zone on the stick.  I do a 25% water change/including gravel cleaning once a week.... feed them every other day, and they get dried blood worms twice a week as a treat!   This is the same routine that I have followed with all 5 of my tanks for a long time, and <KNOCK ON WOOD>   I have been very lucky.... My only big losses I have actually had are from jumpers ( a red tailed shark, a few swordtails and a couple of platties.  and that has been over the past 6 months)
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Kelly
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Date: 03/30/04 12:32:04
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] HELP........ Please!!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      I have tried to keep black ghost knives many time over the years with no success.  I always figured it was becaiuse I kept my water too hard for Co2 reasons.  Very often the fish would look very grey before they died.  Someone once told it was because the hard water made it hard for them to maintain the slime coat on their skin and this caused them to die.  How hard is your water? and does this maybe coincide with water changes?
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                          Andreas
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      In a message dated 3/30/2004 8:42:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, dreamz64@... writes:
                                                                                                                      HELP...   Our Black Ghost Knife is doing a very odd thing and I have not been able to find any information regarding it.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Sunday morning when I got up, it appeared as though he was loosing his color.... His entire body was a washed out looking shade of grey/white.   By Sunday afternoon his color was back to normal and had stayed that way until this morning... I just fed the tank and when he came out, once again his color is faded....  
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      All water checks are 100% via our test kits as well as our LFS, as I took a sample in yesterday to double check after what had happened on Sunday.   The Owner of our LFS had never heard of that and had no advice for us, which is unusual as he is usually right on the money with everything.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      We have had him for over 6 months and have done nothing different and haven't even added any new fish to that tank in 3 months!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      If anyone has any idea's, thoughts, opinions, websites etc.... I would really appreciate your help!
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Kelly

                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1559 From: klooster8 Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: convict ate her fry
                                                                                                                      Hi everybody, I havn't posted in a while but just wanted to say that
                                                                                                                      the convicts won, and now have a 2 1/2 foot tank to themselves.Anyway
                                                                                                                      the female laid about 100 eggs just over a week later they hatched.
                                                                                                                      They were all swarming around in groups, mum and dad would herd them
                                                                                                                      up and move to a different spot, now 5 days later there is about 2
                                                                                                                      dozen left.Have witnessed mum pigging out on her babies.Why is she
                                                                                                                      doing this?Is it because she doesn't know what she is doing?Would I
                                                                                                                      be correct in saying that once you take small fry's out that they lay
                                                                                                                      again?If so what size or age should you remove them from the tank?Dad
                                                                                                                      seems to be just swimming around and being protective, put my hand in
                                                                                                                      the other day to remove the filter to clean it, he come up and nipped
                                                                                                                      me on the hand.Ouch nip for a fish.Hope you can help.
                                                                                                                      Cheers George
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1560 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/30/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: convict ate her fry
                                                                                                                      that's the way it is with convicts. they're great parents for about 2
                                                                                                                      weeks, if that, and then they munch them up. the best bet is to take
                                                                                                                      them out after about 10 days. you can just suction them up with a
                                                                                                                      siphon tube and they'll be just fine...
                                                                                                                      and don't worry, once all the babies are gone you'll have new ones in a
                                                                                                                      matter of weeks.
                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                      On Mar 30, 2004, at 6:40 PM, klooster8 wrote:

                                                                                                                      > Hi everybody, I havn't posted in a while but just wanted to say that
                                                                                                                      > the convicts won, and now have a 2 1/2 foot tank to themselves.Anyway
                                                                                                                      > the female laid about 100 eggs just over a week later they hatched.
                                                                                                                      > They were all swarming around in groups, mum and dad would herd them
                                                                                                                      > up and move to a different spot, now 5 days later there is about 2
                                                                                                                      > dozen left.Have witnessed mum pigging out on her babies.Why is she
                                                                                                                      > doing this?Is it because she doesn't know what she is doing?Would I
                                                                                                                      > be correct in saying that once you take small fry's out that they lay
                                                                                                                      > again?If so what size or age should you remove them from the tank?Dad
                                                                                                                      > seems to be just swimming around and being protective, put my hand in
                                                                                                                      > the other day to remove the filter to clean it, he come up and nipped
                                                                                                                      > me on the hand.Ouch nip for a fish.Hope you can help.
                                                                                                                      > Cheers George
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                      > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                      > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                      > Service.
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                      for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                      religion....
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1561 From: Rob Date: 3/31/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: hello everyone
                                                                                                                      hey everyone I just joined your group. Im always looking to up my
                                                                                                                      aquarium knowledge! I have a 55 gallon sw tank with a maroon clown,
                                                                                                                      snowflake morey, toadfish, yellow tang, and a rock beauty, as well as
                                                                                                                      a few inverts like a condy anemone, sea cucumber, 2 purple sea
                                                                                                                      urchins, a chocolate chip star and a serpent star. I also have a 20
                                                                                                                      gallon freshwater tank with two 6" red belly piranhas, and a 5" gold
                                                                                                                      nugget pleco. And lastly I have a 10 gallon freshwater tank with
                                                                                                                      feeder gold fish, three redtail sternella plecos L114, one albino
                                                                                                                      pleco, two black plecos with white spots and three flagfish. I also
                                                                                                                      have my own group if anyone would like to join its called
                                                                                                                      fresh_and_Saltwater_aquariums.

                                                                                                                      Rob

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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1562 From: Rob Date: 3/31/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: convict ate her fry
                                                                                                                      I agree get those babies out asap!
                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                      <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                      > that's the way it is with convicts. they're great parents for about
                                                                                                                      2
                                                                                                                      > weeks, if that, and then they munch them up. the best bet is to
                                                                                                                      take
                                                                                                                      > them out after about 10 days. you can just suction them up with a
                                                                                                                      > siphon tube and they'll be just fine...
                                                                                                                      > and don't worry, once all the babies are gone you'll have new ones
                                                                                                                      in a
                                                                                                                      > matter of weeks.
                                                                                                                      > amalthea
                                                                                                                      > On Mar 30, 2004, at 6:40 PM, klooster8 wrote:
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > > Hi everybody, I havn't posted in a while but just wanted to say
                                                                                                                      that
                                                                                                                      > > the convicts won, and now have a 2 1/2 foot tank to
                                                                                                                      themselves.Anyway
                                                                                                                      > > the female laid about 100 eggs just over a week later they
                                                                                                                      hatched.
                                                                                                                      > > They were all swarming around in groups, mum and dad would herd
                                                                                                                      them
                                                                                                                      > > up and move to a different spot, now 5 days later there is about
                                                                                                                      2
                                                                                                                      > > dozen left.Have witnessed mum pigging out on her babies.Why is
                                                                                                                      she
                                                                                                                      > > doing this?Is it because she doesn't know what she is doing?
                                                                                                                      Would I
                                                                                                                      > > be correct in saying that once you take small fry's out that
                                                                                                                      they lay
                                                                                                                      > > again?If so what size or age should you remove them from the
                                                                                                                      tank?Dad
                                                                                                                      > > seems to be just swimming around and being protective, put my
                                                                                                                      hand in
                                                                                                                      > > the other day to remove the filter to clean it, he come up and
                                                                                                                      nipped
                                                                                                                      > > me on the hand.Ouch nip for a fish.Hope you can help.
                                                                                                                      > > Cheers George
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                      > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                      > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                      > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                      Terms of
                                                                                                                      > > Service.
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                      > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                      > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                      > religion....
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1563 From: amalthea23 Date: 3/31/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: convict ate her fry
                                                                                                                      well, not TOO quickly, they're really fragile and can die if you do
                                                                                                                      that, but a week is usually a safe bet!
                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                      On Mar 31, 2004, at 10:44 AM, Rob wrote:

                                                                                                                      > I agree get those babies out asap!
                                                                                                                      > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                      for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                      religion....
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1564 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 3/31/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: hello everyone
                                                                                                                      Welcome aboard from one Rob to another. BTW, nice to see another Robert
                                                                                                                      know it's not Bobert! :-) Don't you have any problems with you eel
                                                                                                                      going after you clown, among others? Will stop by your grooup, always
                                                                                                                      room for more emails!

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1565 From: Erin Date: 3/31/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: gotta go no mail
                                                                                                                      Okay, hubby managed to fix my desktop id on the computer, it's been
                                                                                                                      broken since January. So now I've got to send myself all of my
                                                                                                                      messages and IM letters and stuff so that I can receive them on MY
                                                                                                                      desktop. LOL I'll never get caught up if I don't go no mail in my
                                                                                                                      groups at least until I get the mail out of the inbox and folders in
                                                                                                                      hubby's desktop.

                                                                                                                      So I'm going no mail for right now, I *should* be back on receiving
                                                                                                                      mail tomorrow. Wish me luck!

                                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1566 From: Peggy Date: 3/31/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Good online sources for live fish?
                                                                                                                      I'm not very confident about finding the corydoras I'm looking for in my
                                                                                                                      living area, are there any online sources for live tropical fish that people
                                                                                                                      here have used and/or would recommend?

                                                                                                                      Thanks for any help!

                                                                                                                      Peggy


                                                                                                                      ---
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                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1567 From: Edward Sola Date: 3/31/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: What are these?
                                                                                                                      Exactly!  Now if I can just get my filter up and running, lol.  Always something.
                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                      Edward
                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:27 AM
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What are these?

                                                                                                                      Ahhh, glad the natural approach worked for you Edward.  The only tank I
                                                                                                                      ever had those worms was a 15 gallon, so tigers were out of the
                                                                                                                      question.  Formalyn got rid of them though.  It did seem to knock back
                                                                                                                      my biofiltration, though.  Or maybe it was from the worms and pond
                                                                                                                      snails dieing, who knows, thank God their gone, though.  

                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"

                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1568 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 3/31/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: online sources for live fish?
                                                                                                                      Hello.

                                                                                                                      I've ordered fish twice from http://www.liveaquaria.com/ without problems.
                                                                                                                      I bought my german rams, sparkling gouramis, freshwater clams, and purple
                                                                                                                      emperor tetras from them. Minimum order is $30 though and $24.99 for FedEx
                                                                                                                      next day air.

                                                                                                                      I heard good things and recommendations for
                                                                                                                      http://www.aquariumfish.net/index.html Their shipping costs are approx the
                                                                                                                      same, but no minimum order required.

                                                                                                                      http://www.fish2u.com/fish2u/index.html is another I've read recommendations
                                                                                                                      for. They ship UPS which costs a bit more.

                                                                                                                      You could also check http://www.aquabid.com

                                                                                                                      I've also ordered directly from a breeder online.


                                                                                                                      Theresa


                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                      From: "Peggy" <peggy1155@...>
                                                                                                                      To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:25 PM
                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Good online sources for live fish?


                                                                                                                      > I'm not very confident about finding the corydoras I'm looking for in my
                                                                                                                      > living area, are there any online sources for live tropical fish that
                                                                                                                      people
                                                                                                                      > here have used and/or would recommend?
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                      > Peggy
                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1569 From: Short Jonathan Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                      Subject: Exploding Fish!
                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                        Beleive it or not.....
                                                                                                                        I got home last night to find one of my leopard Danios had left us for the
                                                                                                                        spectral plain.
                                                                                                                        I was more alarmed to find out how he'd died.
                                                                                                                        His stomach had exploded, heaven knows where his innards went. I found his
                                                                                                                        corpse caught on a fake plant.
                                                                                                                        I have had a problem with Dropsy just lately but it's gradually on it's way
                                                                                                                        out thanks to medication.
                                                                                                                        The night before when I did my daily inspection all of my Danio's were fine.
                                                                                                                        None of them had bloated stomachs at all.
                                                                                                                        I considered the idea that one of the fish might have got aggressive, but I
                                                                                                                        don't have any fish like that.
                                                                                                                        I have Blue neons, black neons, two suckermouth loaches, 1 black molly, 3
                                                                                                                        Leopard danios (was four) and four Harlequins. All of which have lived in
                                                                                                                        perfect harmony for the past year or so.
                                                                                                                        Any ideas?
                                                                                                                        The only place I saw stomach's exploding was in the Aliens film and to be
                                                                                                                        honest I don't fancy Ripley running riot round my tank.
                                                                                                                        Any ideas?


                                                                                                                        Jonny Short
                                                                                                                        Avalon Court
                                                                                                                        Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                                        3rd Floor
                                                                                                                        <mailto:Jonathan.short@churchill.com> Jonathan.short@churchill.com




                                                                                                                        ___________________________________________________________________________


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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1570 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Exploding Fish!
                                                                                                                        Jonny,

                                                                                                                        It could be 2 things. The fish dies, and the others considered it as food.
                                                                                                                        In that case you should have also seen the fins missing?? Were they? Another
                                                                                                                        possibility that can be and has happened with me in case of zebra danios and
                                                                                                                        guppy is that the eggs accumulate in the stomach, sometimes in such high
                                                                                                                        amounts so as to make the fish explode. Has happened before so it can happen
                                                                                                                        again. Was your leopard danio a female? Was it a little plumper then the
                                                                                                                        others? Both possibilities are there. I doubt it was dropsy as dropsy does
                                                                                                                        act slowly and it probably does not explode the stomach.

                                                                                                                        Nim


                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        >From: Short Jonathan [mailto:jonathan.short@...]
                                                                                                                        >Sent: 01 April 2004 12:31
                                                                                                                        >To: 'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'
                                                                                                                        >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Exploding Fish!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >Beleive it or not.....
                                                                                                                        >I got home last night to find one of my leopard Danios had left us for the
                                                                                                                        >spectral plain.
                                                                                                                        >I was more alarmed to find out how he'd died.
                                                                                                                        >His stomach had exploded, heaven knows where his innards went. I found his
                                                                                                                        >corpse caught on a fake plant.
                                                                                                                        >I have had a problem with Dropsy just lately but it's gradually on it's way
                                                                                                                        >out thanks to medication.
                                                                                                                        >The night before when I did my daily inspection all of my Danio's were
                                                                                                                        >fine.
                                                                                                                        >None of them had bloated stomachs at all.
                                                                                                                        >I considered the idea that one of the fish might have got aggressive, but I
                                                                                                                        >don't have any fish like that.
                                                                                                                        >I have Blue neons, black neons, two suckermouth loaches, 1 black molly, 3
                                                                                                                        >Leopard danios (was four) and four Harlequins. All of which have lived in
                                                                                                                        >perfect harmony for the past year or so.
                                                                                                                        >Any ideas?
                                                                                                                        >The only place I saw stomach's exploding was in the Aliens film and to be
                                                                                                                        >honest I don't fancy Ripley running riot round my tank.
                                                                                                                        >Any ideas?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >Jonny Short
                                                                                                                        >Avalon Court
                                                                                                                        >Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                                        >3rd Floor
                                                                                                                        > <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >___________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                        >This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for
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                                                                                                                        >should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and
                                                                                                                        >should
                                                                                                                        >not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any other
                                                                                                                        >person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
                                                                                                                        >Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
                                                                                                                        >England.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                                                                                                        >1DP.
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1571 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Exploding Fish!
                                                                                                                        H'lo,
                                                                                                                        Does the exploding stomach have anything to do with egg-binding? I read about the subject somewhere, and the cause was stated to be poor nutrition.
                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > Jonny,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > It could be 2 things. The fish dies, and the others considered it as food.
                                                                                                                        > In that case you should have also seen the fins missing?? Were they? Another
                                                                                                                        > possibility that can be and has happened with me in case of zebra danios and
                                                                                                                        > guppy is that the eggs accumulate in the stomach, sometimes in such high
                                                                                                                        > amounts so as to make the fish explode. Has happened before so it can happen
                                                                                                                        > again. Was your leopard danio a female? Was it a little plumper then the
                                                                                                                        > others? Both possibilities are there. I doubt it was dropsy as dropsy does
                                                                                                                        > act slowly and it probably does not explode the stomach.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nim
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        > >From: Short Jonathan [mailto:jonathan.short@...]
                                                                                                                        > >Sent: 01 April 2004 12:31
                                                                                                                        > >To: 'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'
                                                                                                                        > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Exploding Fish!
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >Beleive it or not.....
                                                                                                                        > >I got home last night to find one of my leopard Danios had left us for the
                                                                                                                        > >spectral plain.
                                                                                                                        > >I was more alarmed to find out how he'd died.

                                                                                                                        > >His stomach had exploded, heaven knows where his innards went. I found his
                                                                                                                        > >corpse caught on a fake plant.
                                                                                                                        > >I have had a problem with Dropsy just lately but it's gradually on it's way
                                                                                                                        > >out thanks to medication.
                                                                                                                        > >The night before when I did my daily inspection all of my Danio's were
                                                                                                                        > >fine.
                                                                                                                        > >None of them had bloated stomachs at all.
                                                                                                                        > >I considered the idea that one of the fish might have got aggressive, but I
                                                                                                                        > >don't have any fish like that.
                                                                                                                        > >I have Blue neons, black neons, two suckermouth loaches, 1 black molly, 3
                                                                                                                        > >Leopard danios (was four) and four Harlequins. All of which have lived in
                                                                                                                        > >perfect harmony for the past year or so.
                                                                                                                        > >Any ideas?
                                                                                                                        > >The only place I saw stomach's exploding was in the Aliens film and to be
                                                                                                                        > >honest I don't fancy Ripley running riot round my tank.
                                                                                                                        > >Any ideas?
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >Jonny Short
                                                                                                                        > >Avalon Court
                                                                                                                        > >Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                                        > >3rd Floor
                                                                                                                        > > <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >

                                                                                                                        > >___________________________________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                        > >This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for
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                                                                                                                        > >person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
                                                                                                                        > >Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank you.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
                                                                                                                        > >England.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                                                                                                        > >1DP.
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1572 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Exploding Fish!
                                                                                                                        Well Joe,

                                                                                                                        I also cannot recall where I had read this. But it was a long time ago. It
                                                                                                                        so happens that the females develop eggs on a regular basis. If the eggs are
                                                                                                                        not released during a spawn/a spawn does not take place, these eggs are
                                                                                                                        absorbed back and excreted by some manner. In rare cases it may happen that
                                                                                                                        the eggs are not able to be absorbed and sit in the belly rotting. This
                                                                                                                        rotting itself can cause such things, or if the fish starts to develop more
                                                                                                                        eggs as a cycle again, it would defiantly explode. Similar case happened
                                                                                                                        with a female guppy of mine. The fry were ready to burst out but for some
                                                                                                                        reason, the female was unable to release them or the eggs. Eventually when
                                                                                                                        the time of fry release came (I had been calculating the dates) I saw her
                                                                                                                        next morning with her belly ripped apart and dead eggs bulging out of it.
                                                                                                                        She was still alive and it was a horrible sight. I had to euthanize her that
                                                                                                                        very minute.

                                                                                                                        I had a breeding group of zebra danios (back in 1992)that regularly laid
                                                                                                                        eggs. Once fine day, the spawining rituals occurred but the female did not
                                                                                                                        lay any eggs. She still remained plump. A couple of weeks passed and one
                                                                                                                        morning her belly went off. Since it was a species tank, I could see the
                                                                                                                        dead rotted unfertilized eggs at the bottom and the glass. Obvious to as
                                                                                                                        what had happened. If it were a community, the eggs would have been eaten.
                                                                                                                        It was then when I had read about this thing. I will see if I can get
                                                                                                                        something on this on google.

                                                                                                                        Nim


                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        >From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                                        >Sent: 01 April 2004 13:13
                                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Exploding Fish!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > H'lo,
                                                                                                                        > Does the exploding stomach have anything to do with egg-binding? I
                                                                                                                        >read about the subject somewhere, and the cause was stated to be poor
                                                                                                                        >nutrition.
                                                                                                                        > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        >> Jonny,
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> It could be 2 things. The fish dies, and the others considered it as
                                                                                                                        >food.
                                                                                                                        >> In that case you should have also seen the fins missing?? Were they?
                                                                                                                        >Another
                                                                                                                        >> possibility that can be and has happened with me in case of zebra danios
                                                                                                                        >and
                                                                                                                        >> guppy is that the eggs accumulate in the stomach, sometimes in such high
                                                                                                                        >> amounts so as to make the fish explode. Has happened before so it can
                                                                                                                        >happen
                                                                                                                        >> again. Was your leopard danio a female? Was it a little plumper then the
                                                                                                                        >> others? Both possibilities are there. I doubt it was dropsy as dropsy
                                                                                                                        >does
                                                                                                                        >> act slowly and it probably does not explode the stomach.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Nim
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        >> >From: Short Jonathan [mailto:jonathan.short@...]
                                                                                                                        >> >Sent: 01 April 2004 12:31
                                                                                                                        >> >To: 'FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com'
                                                                                                                        >> >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Exploding Fish!
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >Beleive it or not.....
                                                                                                                        >> >I got home last night to find one of my leopard Danios had left us for
                                                                                                                        >the
                                                                                                                        >> >spectral plain.
                                                                                                                        >> >I was more alarmed to find out how he'd died.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >> >His stomach had exploded, heaven knows where his innards went. I found
                                                                                                                        >his
                                                                                                                        >> >corpse caught on a fake plant.
                                                                                                                        >> >I have had a problem with Dropsy just lately but it's gradually on it's
                                                                                                                        >way
                                                                                                                        >> >out thanks to medication.
                                                                                                                        >> >The night before when I did my daily inspection all of my Danio's were
                                                                                                                        >> >fine.
                                                                                                                        >> >None of them had bloated stomachs at all.
                                                                                                                        >> >I considered the idea that one of the fish might have got aggressive,
                                                                                                                        >but I
                                                                                                                        >> >don't have any fish like that.
                                                                                                                        >> >I have Blue neons, black neons, two suckermouth loaches, 1 black molly,
                                                                                                                        >3
                                                                                                                        >> >Leopard danios (was four) and four Harlequins. All of which have lived
                                                                                                                        >in
                                                                                                                        >> >perfect harmony for the past year or so.
                                                                                                                        >> >Any ideas?
                                                                                                                        >> >The only place I saw stomach's exploding was in the Aliens film and to
                                                                                                                        >be
                                                                                                                        >> >honest I don't fancy Ripley running riot round my tank.
                                                                                                                        >> >Any ideas?
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >Jonny Short
                                                                                                                        >> >Avalon Court
                                                                                                                        >> >Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                                        >> >3rd Floor
                                                                                                                        >> > <mailto:Jonathan.short@...> Jonathan.short@...
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>__________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                        >_
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >This email and any attached to it are confidential and intended only for
                                                                                                                        >> >the
                                                                                                                        >> >individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the
                                                                                                                        >intended
                                                                                                                        >> >recipient, please let us know by telephoning or emailing the sender.
                                                                                                                        >You
                                                                                                                        >> >should also delete the email and any attachment from your systems and
                                                                                                                        >> >should
                                                                                                                        >> >not copy the email or any attachment or disclose their content to any
                                                                                                                        >other
                                                                                                                        >> >person or entity. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of
                                                                                                                        >> >Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or subsidiaries. Thank
                                                                                                                        >you.
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration Number - 2280426.
                                                                                                                        >> >England.
                                                                                                                        >> >
                                                                                                                        >> >Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                                                                                                        >> >1DP.
                                                                                                                        >> >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1573 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Exploding Fish!
                                                                                                                        I highly doubt it exploded. Be wild to see though...
                                                                                                                        Chances are that the other fish got to it after it died and ate the
                                                                                                                        softest part.

                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1574 From: Rob Francois jr Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hello everyone
                                                                                                                        Hey rob, my eel is so placid he never goes after any of the fish, he will eat cleaner shrimp though ;-( . the most aggresive fish in the tank is probably my yellow tang! he hates newcomers. but he has also befriended my rock beauty and they never leave each others side, its weird!
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Rob

                                                                                                                        bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                        Welcome aboard from one Rob to another.  BTW, nice to see another Robert
                                                                                                                        know it's not Bobert!  :-)  Don't you have any problems with you eel
                                                                                                                        going after you clown, among others?  Will stop by your grooup, always
                                                                                                                        room for more emails!

                                                                                                                        "Damaged and I like it, it made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today

                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1575 From: Peggy Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: online sources for live fish?
                                                                                                                        Thank you very much!  I'll look into all of these.  Looking through our yellow pages I'm not finding too much in ther way of decent LFS. :>(
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:06 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: online sources for live fish?

                                                                                                                        Hello.

                                                                                                                        I've ordered fish twice from http://www.liveaquaria.com/  without problems.
                                                                                                                        I bought my german rams, sparkling gouramis, freshwater clams, and purple
                                                                                                                        emperor tetras from them. Minimum order is $30 though and $24.99 for FedEx
                                                                                                                        next day air.

                                                                                                                        I heard good things and recommendations for
                                                                                                                        http://www.aquariumfish.net/index.html Their shipping costs are approx the
                                                                                                                        same, but no minimum order required.

                                                                                                                        http://www.fish2u.com/fish2u/index.html is another I've read recommendations
                                                                                                                        for. They ship UPS which costs a bit more.

                                                                                                                        You could also check http://www.aquabid.com

                                                                                                                        I've also ordered directly from a breeder online.


                                                                                                                        Theresa


                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        From: "Peggy" <peggy1155@...>
                                                                                                                        To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:25 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Good online sources for live fish?


                                                                                                                        > I'm not very confident about finding the corydoras I'm looking for in my
                                                                                                                        > living area, are there any online sources for live tropical fish that
                                                                                                                        people
                                                                                                                        > here have used and/or would recommend?
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks for any help!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Peggy


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1576 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Angels Spawning

                                                                                                                        Hi All,

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        My angels have yet spawned again. This is probably the 5th time and now they are aggressively protecting them. They already battered my large female sword tail and a couple of wanamensis rainbows badly. I cannot remove the fish, nor can I remove the parents and I don’t want to remove the eggs as this would be my last option. I want them to care for the eggs and the fry the natural way. Waited many times for it.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        What do you recommend would be their survival rate in a community tank? Fish like Rainbows, gold barbs, orange chromides, bolivian rams, SAE , appolocheilus linnetus, Red tailed sharks (the only fish Angels cannot defend the eggs from). DO I remove the eggs? Coz if I remove them, they may not care for the eggs again.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Help.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Thanks,

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1577 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Angels Spawning
                                                                                                                        have you considered getting a tank divider? that way you don't have to
                                                                                                                        remove anyone, but the more docile fish are protected. i have one in my
                                                                                                                        juvenile tank and it works really well...
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 1, 2004, at 2:24 PM, Nimish Mathur wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Hi All,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > My angels have yet spawned again. This is probably the 5th time and
                                                                                                                        > now they are aggressively protecting them. They already battered my
                                                                                                                        > large female sword tail and a couple of wanamensis rainbows badly. I
                                                                                                                        > cannot remove the fish, nor can I remove the parents and I don’t want
                                                                                                                        > to remove the eggs as this would be my last option. I want them to
                                                                                                                        > care for the eggs and the fry the natural way. Waited many times for
                                                                                                                        > it.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > What do you recommend would be their survival rate in a community
                                                                                                                        > tank? Fish like Rainbows, gold barbs, orange chromides, bolivian rams,
                                                                                                                        > SAE, appolocheilus linnetus, Red tailed sharks (the only fish Angels
                                                                                                                        > cannot defend the eggs from). DO I remove the eggs? Coz if I remove
                                                                                                                        > them, they may not care for the eggs again.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Help.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thanks,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Nim
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                        web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1578 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Angels Spawning
                                                                                                                        Thanks Amalthea,
                                                                                                                        The tank is very heavily planted. There is no way I can put a tank
                                                                                                                        separator. Do you think If I move the parents and the eggs to a different
                                                                                                                        tank, they will care for them? I suspect they will eat the eggs then. I can
                                                                                                                        do some considerable work to move all of them to my existing fry tanks as
                                                                                                                        the rainbow fry are big enough to go in other tanks.
                                                                                                                        I need to decide in the next 1 hr before the lights go off on timer. I never
                                                                                                                        see the eggs next morning till now.
                                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                                        Nim


                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        >From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                                        >Sent: 01 April 2004 20:27
                                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Angels Spawning
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >have you considered getting a tank divider? that way you don't have to
                                                                                                                        >remove anyone, but the more docile fish are protected. i have one in my
                                                                                                                        >juvenile tank and it works really well...
                                                                                                                        >amalthea
                                                                                                                        >On Apr 1, 2004, at 2:24 PM, Nimish Mathur wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >> Hi All,
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> My angels have yet spawned again. This is probably the 5th time and
                                                                                                                        >> now they are aggressively protecting them. They already battered my
                                                                                                                        >> large female sword tail and a couple of wanamensis rainbows badly. I
                                                                                                                        >> cannot remove the fish, nor can I remove the parents and I don't want
                                                                                                                        >> to remove the eggs as this would be my last option. I want them to
                                                                                                                        >> care for the eggs and the fry the natural way. Waited many times for
                                                                                                                        >> it.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> What do you recommend would be their survival rate in a community
                                                                                                                        >> tank? Fish like Rainbows, gold barbs, orange chromides, bolivian rams,
                                                                                                                        >> SAE, appolocheilus linnetus, Red tailed sharks (the only fish Angels
                                                                                                                        >> cannot defend the eggs from). DO I remove the eggs? Coz if I remove
                                                                                                                        >> them, they may not care for the eggs again.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Help.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Thanks,
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Nim
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> . To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                        >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                        >> Service.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                        >web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1579 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Angels Spawning
                                                                                                                        yeah, they probably will eat them from the stress. i think you might do
                                                                                                                        better to just accept the loss and move the angels to another tank and
                                                                                                                        wait for them to go at it again...
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 1, 2004, at 2:33 PM, Nimish Mathur wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Thanks Amalthea,
                                                                                                                        > The tank is very heavily planted. There is no way I can put a tank
                                                                                                                        > separator. Do you think If I move the parents and the eggs to a
                                                                                                                        > different
                                                                                                                        > tank, they will care for them? I suspect they will eat the eggs then.
                                                                                                                        > I can
                                                                                                                        > do some considerable work to move all of them to my existing fry
                                                                                                                        > tanks as
                                                                                                                        > the rainbow fry are big enough to go in other tanks.
                                                                                                                        > I need to decide in the next 1 hr before the lights go off on timer.
                                                                                                                        > I never
                                                                                                                        > see the eggs next morning till now.
                                                                                                                        > Thanks,
                                                                                                                        > Nim
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        > >From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                                        > >Sent: 01 April 2004 20:27
                                                                                                                        > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Angels Spawning
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >have you considered getting a tank divider? that way you don't have
                                                                                                                        > to
                                                                                                                        > >remove anyone, but the more docile fish are protected. i have one in
                                                                                                                        > my
                                                                                                                        > >juvenile tank and it works really well...
                                                                                                                        > >amalthea
                                                                                                                        > >On Apr 1, 2004, at 2:24 PM, Nimish Mathur wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >> Hi All,
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >> My angels have yet spawned again. This is probably the 5th time and
                                                                                                                        > >> now they are aggressively protecting them. They already battered my
                                                                                                                        > >> large female sword tail and a couple of wanamensis rainbows badly.
                                                                                                                        > I
                                                                                                                        > >> cannot remove the fish, nor can I remove the parents and I don't
                                                                                                                        > want
                                                                                                                        > >> to remove the eggs as this would be my last option. I want them to
                                                                                                                        > >> care for the eggs and the fry the natural way. Waited many times
                                                                                                                        > for
                                                                                                                        > >> it.
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >> What do you recommend would be their survival rate in a community
                                                                                                                        > >> tank? Fish like Rainbows, gold barbs, orange chromides, bolivian
                                                                                                                        > rams,
                                                                                                                        > >> SAE, appolocheilus linnetus, Red tailed sharks (the only fish
                                                                                                                        > Angels
                                                                                                                        > >> cannot defend the eggs from). DO I remove the eggs? Coz if I remove
                                                                                                                        > >> them, they may not care for the eggs again.
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >> Help.
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >> Thanks,
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >> Nim
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>       .       To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>       .       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                        > >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>       .       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                        > Terms of
                                                                                                                        > >> Service.
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                        > >http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                        > >web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                        web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1581 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/1/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Juice Food
                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Juice Food After reading this post, I was curious and started searching on google for a description of what it’s for.
                                                                                                                        Seems to be a trick to bring out the latent colouring that a female fish carries genetically so that it resembles a male..
                                                                                                                        I’ve found the below at http://www.guppylog.com/story/2004/1/12/8211/57999.

                                                                                                                        Personally I think it sounds terrible :-) But each to their own.

                                                                                                                        Tim


                                                                                                                        ---





                                                                                                                        What is the conventional wisdom about treating a female guppy with testosterone?"

                                                                                                                         Harro Hieronimus, author of the Barron's book on Livebearers responded that the chances were that after the test the colors would fade, "...but she got a gonopodium and was a fade giant, nearly (a) male guppy."

                                                                                                                         If Harro was against the idea, Bill Allen, editor of the ALA publication Livebearers, was a little more encouraging and noted, "If done carefully, the female will show color temporarily and will not be sterilized. For more details, dosages, etc., refer to the ALA's
                                                                                                                         "Livebearers; Special Publication #4; Guppies", pp 46 to 54.

                                                                                                                         Another interesting topic discussed is using estrogen to ENHANCE fertility - the example cited is in albino strains which tend not to be prolific. Only available through the ALA, and a real bargain at $4 ($3.50 for 2 or more)."

                                                                                                                         I (should have but) didn't realize that there was a guppy issue in the ALA special publication series. They have seven special issues which collect many articles on a general topic published over the years in Livebearers.

                                                                                                                         Angelee was also wondering about her tap water and estrogen. Bill's comment about enhancing fertility with estrogen is interesting. Maybe "it is the water" as parents have kidded over the years!

                                                                                                                         When we were house hunting with an eye on finally getting out of grad school and settling down to start a family, we noticed a delightful, reasonably priced housing development near woodlands and forest preserves. Then I noticed a locally infamous chemical plant over the tree tops. They had made an agricultural fertilizer which had an estrogen like component. Male employees of that plant began to have all sorts of problems and charged mastectomies to the company.

                                                                                                                         The plant folded. We bought a lesser house miles to the west (and up wind.)

                                                                                                                         After Angelee's initial post I had jotted a preliminary NOTEPAD response to the Methyl testosterone question:

                                                                                                                         Many serious breeders wouldn't treat a female, but would have pretty detailed records of who has produced what in that strain (a studbook of sorts or a breeding registry). Even then one can't be 100% sure what will be produced.

                                                                                                                         According to the Gospel of Shubel ;)  (p. 134) a couple of his blue deltatail lines still throw occasional purples or greens along with the blues. He even suggests that breeding that male back to one of his sisters with the appropriate cast to her tail can produce some pretty decent green or purple fish. So he too is playing the (pretty favorable) odds with his blues. (Evidentally not singing them anyway.)

                                                                                                                         So hormone treating female guppies is not necessarilly the same as choking the golden goose. But I wouldn't really want to make her my chief breeder again.

                                                                                                                         ... (I was really hoping that someone who had done that would respond to Guppylog.) If the speculations/suggestions below are wrong - in the experience of someone on this list or an acquaintance you have closely questioned - please correct me....

                                                                                                                         It is curious how much the guppy books don't address this issue. Taboo?

                                                                                                                         If a person had several females which looked like "peas in a pod", they could take a female which they were not likely to breed (let's assume they have a dozen females in a generation of that line). Would they breed and save the fry of more a couple of batches of one or two or maybe three females? So test number 8. :)

                                                                                                                         In this case it might make sense because that is not the fish you are likely to breed so who cares?

                                                                                                                         However many of us have guppies from shops or recent purchases at fish club events. We are unsure of what our fish will produce. If a specifically colored female has mated with males of radically different colors, her colors may not give a very accurate picture of what her fry will look like anyway. Look at gupppies' description of black x yellow guppies and what they will produce - if the lines are pure.

                                                                                                                         If you have one female guppy you really like and she has only been with a certain male, you may be able to guess from them what many of their offspring will be like. Dorsal and tail fins and maybe even some body color may suffice.

                                                                                                                         If you are still dying to determine what colors she carries, why don't you let her drop a good batch first so if she is damaged by the process later on, some fry remain?

                                                                                                                         I too would really like to know what some fish will produce. Sometimes a scientific curiosity may demand that. (A scientific curiosity might also demand dissection in some cases of illness.)

                                                                                                                         The treatment isn't necessarily in her best interests. :)
                                                                                                                        All the best!  uncle scott



                                                                                                                        On 2/4/04 7:52 AM, "al244840" <al2448@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        METHYL TESTOSTERONE

                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1582 From: Sarah Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Sexing Apple Snails
                                                                                                                        Hi Everyone!!!.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Anyone know how to sex apple snails?. We have 3 in our tank and last night we noticed about 100 babies on the side of the tank some in the water and some out of the water. most of them have already hatched and are in a nursing tank so stop the fish eating them.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Their really cute....lol
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Kind Regards
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1583 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sexing Apple Snails
                                                                                                                        If they are like the majority of other snails then they aren’t sexable. Snails are usually hermaphrodite. 2 snails will fire a dart at each other to pregnate the other snail, and in some cases a single snail is sufficient to become pregnant to itself and lay eggs....

                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                        Tim



                                                                                                                        On 2/4/04 10:42 PM, "Sarah" <sarah@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        Hi Everyone!!!.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Anyone know how to sex apple snails?. We have 3 in our tank and last night we noticed about 100 babies on the side of the tank some in the water and some out of the water. most of them have already hatched and are in a nursing tank so stop the fish eating them.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Their really cute....lol
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Kind Regards
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Sarah & Tony

                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
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                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1584 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sexing Apple Snails

                                                                                                                        Apple snails are not hermaphrodite. They exist as Males and Females, but I don’t think you can sex them visibly. Only if you take them out of the shell can you notice the difference, but that probably means, killing it. Do a search on google for “male apple snail2 or “female apple snail”

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                        Sent: 02 April 2004 14:46
                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sexing Apple Snails

                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                        If they are like the majority of other snails then they aren’t sexable. Snails are usually hermaphrodite. 2 snails will fire a dart at each other to pregnate the other snail, and in some cases a single snail is sufficient to become pregnant to itself and lay eggs....

                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                        Tim



                                                                                                                        On 2/4/04 10:42 PM , "Sarah" <sarah@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                        Hi Everyone!!!.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Anyone know how to sex apple snails?. We have 3 in our tank and last night we noticed about 100 babies on the side of the tank some in the water and some out of the water. most of them have already hatched and are in a nursing tank so stop the fish eating them.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Their really cute....lol
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Kind Regards
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Sarah & Tony

                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                         
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                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                                                         



                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1585 From: red_5sw@yahoo.com Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: should i use a undergravel filter
                                                                                                                        i will be buying a 20L tank. i will have live plants in it and i will
                                                                                                                        have be using a fluvil 204 canister. should i use a undergravel
                                                                                                                        filter or not. any help would be great.



                                                                                                                        Eric
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1586 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hello everyone
                                                                                                                        Wow, a mellow eel, that great. I've only kept them in my store and
                                                                                                                        yhey've eaten their fare share of other fish, but it might be that the
                                                                                                                        tanks are pretty small.

                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1587 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
                                                                                                                        http://applesnail.net/
                                                                                                                        that's a great site with lots of apple snail info!
                                                                                                                        congrats!
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 2, 2004, at 7:42 AM, Sarah wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Hi Everyone!!!.
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > Anyone know how to sex apple snails?. We have 3 in our tank and last
                                                                                                                        > night we noticed about 100 babies on the side of the tank some in the
                                                                                                                        > water and some out of the water. most of them have already hatched and
                                                                                                                        > are in a nursing tank so stop the fish eating them.
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > Their really cute....lol
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > Kind Regards
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                        religion....
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1588 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
                                                                                                                        If you're using a canister filter, there's no point in using an
                                                                                                                        undergravel as well. Plus, you're better off with the canister filter
                                                                                                                        instead of the undergravel with plants, anyway.

                                                                                                                        - Trevor

                                                                                                                        red_5sw@... wrote:

                                                                                                                        > i will be buying a 20L tank. i will have live plants in it and i will
                                                                                                                        > have be using a fluvil 204 canister. should i use a undergravel
                                                                                                                        > filter or not. any help would be great.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1589 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
                                                                                                                        they're sexable, info is on the site i posted
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 2, 2004, at 8:46 AM, Tim Walker wrote:

                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > If they are like the majority of other snails then they aren’t
                                                                                                                        > sexable. Snails are usually hermaphrodite. 2 snails will fire a dart
                                                                                                                        > at each other to pregnate the other snail, and in some cases a single
                                                                                                                        > snail is sufficient to become pregnant to itself and lay eggs....
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Cheers,
                                                                                                                        > Tim
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > On 2/4/04 10:42 PM, "Sarah" <sarah@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hi Everyone!!!.
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > Anyone know how to sex apple snails?. We have 3 in our tank and last
                                                                                                                        > night we noticed about 100 babies on the side of the tank some in the
                                                                                                                        > water and some out of the water. most of them have already hatched and
                                                                                                                        > are in a nursing tank so stop the fish eating them.
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > Their really cute....lol
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > Kind Regards
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1590 From: dozer0011 Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sexing Apple Snails
                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
                                                                                                                        <sarah@f...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > Hi Everyone!!!.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Anyone know how to sex apple snails?. We have 3 in our tank and
                                                                                                                        last night
                                                                                                                        > we noticed about 100 babies on the side of the tank some in the
                                                                                                                        water and
                                                                                                                        > some out of the water. most of them have already hatched and are
                                                                                                                        in a
                                                                                                                        > nursing tank so stop the fish eating them.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Their really cute....lol
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Kind Regards
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sarah & Tony


                                                                                                                        A relative easy (?) way to determine the sex of an apple snail is
                                                                                                                        by taking the snail out of the water, keep it on it's back and wait
                                                                                                                        until the animal comes out of its shell. At that moment you have to
                                                                                                                        take a look at the upper part of the right mantle cavity. Close to
                                                                                                                        the edge of the shell, you can see the penis sheath starting (take a
                                                                                                                        look at the anatomy to get an idea where to look for).
                                                                                                                        Some experience might be needed for this, but once you have seen the
                                                                                                                        difference between the male and the female snail you'll find it less
                                                                                                                        difficult to determine the sex of an apple in the future.
                                                                                                                        Another option is to wait until the snail copulate. When they're
                                                                                                                        mating, the male snail creeps on the shell of the female and puts
                                                                                                                        his penis in her. At that point you know that the one on top is the
                                                                                                                        male and the other is the female.
                                                                                                                        The third way to differentiate the sexes is based on the fact that
                                                                                                                        male snail have a rounder shell opening (aperture). In the case you
                                                                                                                        are the lucky owner of several apple snails, you can compare the
                                                                                                                        aperture height/width to determine the sexes of your snails.
                                                                                                                        There also is a fourth way: killing the animal and having a look at
                                                                                                                        the inside. But I guess you prefer to keep your snails alive.

                                                                                                                        Taken from http://applesnail.net/
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1591 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
                                                                                                                        Maybe I'm dense, and not understanding quite what you mean, but why would you use a canister filter AND an undergravel filter?? Besides which, from what I've read you can not use undergravel filter if you're using live plants ... the plastic plate isn't strong enough to support the substrate you need for the plants to survive.
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        Date: 04/02/04 10:26:56
                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should i use a undergravel filter
                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                        i will be buying a 20L tank. i will have live plants in it and i will
                                                                                                                        have be using a fluvil 204 canister. should i use a undergravel
                                                                                                                        filter or not.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1592 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
                                                                                                                        many people use two different filters, there's really nothing wrong
                                                                                                                        with doing it, and also, you don't HAVE to have special substrate for
                                                                                                                        many plants. i have plain gravel and a relatively densely planted tank.
                                                                                                                        it's not so much the strength of the plates as the fact that the plants
                                                                                                                        don't like the nutrients sucked away from around their roots and the
                                                                                                                        roots tend to choke the plates...
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 2, 2004, at 1:15 PM, Erin VanKouwenberg wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Maybe I'm dense, and not understanding quite what you mean, but why
                                                                                                                        > would you use a canister filter AND an undergravel filter?? Besides
                                                                                                                        > which, from what I've read you can not use undergravel filter if
                                                                                                                        > you're using live plants ... the plastic plate isn't strong enough to
                                                                                                                        > support the substrate you need for the plants to survive.
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > Erin
                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Date: 04/02/04 10:26:56
                                                                                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should i use a undergravel
                                                                                                                        > filter
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > i will be buying a 20L tank. i will have live plants in it and i will
                                                                                                                        > have be using a fluvil 204 canister. should i use a undergravel
                                                                                                                        > filter or not.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >  
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                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1593 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
                                                                                                                        This is one person that hates undergravel filters, so the Fluval will be
                                                                                                                        just fine Eric. As much as I love my Fluvals, remember to change the
                                                                                                                        motor housing ring once a year, they flatten at the corners and can then
                                                                                                                        leak. It did happen to me.

                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1595 From: Julie Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
                                                                                                                        What is the policy for spam on the list?  This is the second time this message has come through, with the same exact same wording. julie
                                                                                                                        Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                        I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:11 PM
                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE

                                                                                                                        Hello

                                                                                                                        I was surfing around today and found an new web site called Tropical
                                                                                                                        Aquarium Fish. It looks like a good site for new aquarists.

                                                                                                                        Here's a link
                                                                                                                        http://www.tropical-aquarium-fish.com

                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1596 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/2/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
                                                                                                                        there's a zero tolerance policy for spam on the site, this one just
                                                                                                                        slipped through, apologies...
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 2, 2004, at 11:10 PM, Julie wrote:

                                                                                                                        > What is the policy for spam on the list?  This is the second time this
                                                                                                                        > message has come through, with the same exact same wording. julie
                                                                                                                        > Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                        > I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        > From: wolfhunterco
                                                                                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:11 PM
                                                                                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Hello
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I was surfing around today and found an new web site called Tropical
                                                                                                                        > Aquarium Fish. It looks like a good site for new aquarists.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Here's a link
                                                                                                                        > http://www.tropical-aquarium-fish.com
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >  
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                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1597 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: SPAM (was ~ Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE)
                                                                                                                        Hi All,

                                                                                                                        Please note ~

                                                                                                                        We encourage any and all usefull information to be shared in this
                                                                                                                        group. Links to sites that are on Topic are very much welcome. There
                                                                                                                        is a large collection of bookmarks that may be of intrest to us all
                                                                                                                        in the LINKS Section on the Left Side of the Home Page, which can be
                                                                                                                        found at the following address -
                                                                                                                        ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/links )
                                                                                                                        The Bookmarks are kept as organized as possible and checked regularly
                                                                                                                        for content. Please feel free to add any links you find.
                                                                                                                        There is a special Folder intended to showcase all of our own
                                                                                                                        personal Websites; ( Members Links ~ post links to your aquarium
                                                                                                                        related web sites, groups, forums, clubs, etc... ), which contains a
                                                                                                                        folder at the top for otherwise Off-Topic Links ( Off Topic ~
                                                                                                                        please place all your non-fish related links here ). This is the only
                                                                                                                        area where non-fish sites are welcomed within reason, i.e. NO PORN.

                                                                                                                        As Amalthea stated in the attached message, "there's a zero tolerance
                                                                                                                        policy for spam on the site". Unfortunately the former member whom
                                                                                                                        posted the message repeatedly, was not able to abide by this policy
                                                                                                                        and was banned. The first message sent a few weeks ago seemed
                                                                                                                        innocent, however the repeated posting with the subject line in all
                                                                                                                        caps was considered offensive enough that a member brought it to our
                                                                                                                        attention. We continue to Moderate New Members as an attempt to
                                                                                                                        prevent this from happening. If you are new and do not see your
                                                                                                                        messages being posted right away, please be patient as we do our best
                                                                                                                        to screen all posts for appropriate content. Thank you in advance for
                                                                                                                        your co-operation and understanding.

                                                                                                                        I am happy to see this group is now the 5th Largest Yahoo Aquarium
                                                                                                                        Group. FTFA continues to be the fastest growing and most active group
                                                                                                                        around. It has been an awesome experience to learn so much about the
                                                                                                                        world of fishkeeping from all of you. Thank you all very much for
                                                                                                                        being a part of such a great experience.

                                                                                                                        Aaron R. Martin, cmt


                                                                                                                        got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

                                                                                                                        stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                        <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > there's a zero tolerance policy for spam on the site, this one just
                                                                                                                        > slipped through, apologies...
                                                                                                                        > amalthea



                                                                                                                        > On Apr 2, 2004, at 11:10 PM, Julie wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > > What is the policy for spam on the list? This is the second
                                                                                                                        time
                                                                                                                        this
                                                                                                                        > > message has come through, with the same exact same wording. julie
                                                                                                                        > > Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                        > > I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.



                                                                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                        > > From: wolfhunterco
                                                                                                                        > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:11 PM
                                                                                                                        > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Hello
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I was surfing around today and found an new web site called
                                                                                                                        Tropical
                                                                                                                        > > Aquarium Fish. It looks like a good site for new aquarists.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Here's a link
                                                                                                                        > > http://www.tropical-aquarium-fish.com


                                                                                                                        Are you sure you want to send this message?
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1598 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: I'm a new fish Grandma "hehe" need alittle help
                                                                                                                        I'm pretty excited I just woke up to see that my neon swordtail is
                                                                                                                        having her babies (right now) I tried to do a search with in the
                                                                                                                        group to find my info but couldn't so I need to know

                                                                                                                        1. how long will it take for her to have them all?

                                                                                                                        2. When do I start feeding the babies ? and what ? ( I can go to the
                                                                                                                        lfs or what ever I need to do)

                                                                                                                        3. any other help ( you can think of )

                                                                                                                        I would like to only keep a few so I hope I can keep them alive
                                                                                                                        thanks for any help

                                                                                                                        Sherrie
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1599 From: daniel_roachus Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Julie"
                                                                                                                        <jaramey@b...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > What is the policy for spam on the list? This is the second time
                                                                                                                        this message has come through, with the same exact same wording. julie
                                                                                                                        > Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                        > I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.

                                                                                                                        well - the link is about fish, even if the advice is a bit dodgy!

                                                                                                                        eg:
                                                                                                                        "I recommend using under gravel filters (UGF) to do the job"

                                                                                                                        and

                                                                                                                        "There are numerous brands of mechanical filters on the market. They
                                                                                                                        all work pretty good... some better than others. Myself I prefer the
                                                                                                                        MarineLand brand because of their Bio Wheel. "

                                                                                                                        isn't a bio wheel a biological filter??
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1600 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: NEW AQUARIUM WEB SITE
                                                                                                                        the biowheel itself is biological, but they are all attached to a
                                                                                                                        mechanical filter and most have chemical filtration incorporated as
                                                                                                                        well....
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 3, 2004, at 2:33 PM, daniel_roachus wrote:

                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Julie"
                                                                                                                        > <jaramey@b...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > > What is the policy for spam on the list?  This is the second time
                                                                                                                        > this message has come through, with the same exact same wording. julie
                                                                                                                        > > Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                        > > I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > well - the link is about fish, even if the advice is a bit dodgy!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > eg:
                                                                                                                        > "I recommend using under gravel filters (UGF) to do the job"
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > "There are numerous brands of mechanical filters on the market. They
                                                                                                                        > all work pretty good... some better than others. Myself I prefer the
                                                                                                                        > MarineLand brand because of their Bio Wheel. "
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > isn't a bio wheel a biological filter??
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1601 From: *~* Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: #$%^&*
                                                                                                                        dang it darn it foooooo!

                                                                                                                        In my 38gal where I keep 1 plec, 4 gourami, 1 apple snail, 2
                                                                                                                        mollies, I spot treated one of the gourami for what looked like it
                                                                                                                        might be a spot of ick on it's caudal fin...now the fin looks
                                                                                                                        shredded!

                                                                                                                        If anyone has experience in this area, I'd appreciate feedback. On
                                                                                                                        the good side, the "ick" looks like it it fading. I've turned the
                                                                                                                        heat up a tiny bit, but now her fin is a bit frayed. Did I fudge up?
                                                                                                                        I netted her out of the tank and spot treated it with diluted ick
                                                                                                                        cure. Now I'm totally freakin out because I dont want to risk the
                                                                                                                        rest of the tank, but, at this time I don't have a tank available to
                                                                                                                        make it a hospital tank. <sigh>

                                                                                                                        It's water change day so I am hoping this will help some more.

                                                                                                                        ciao for now ~
                                                                                                                        J
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1602 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: #$%^&*
                                                                                                                        How did you hear about 'SPOT-TREATMENT'? Never heard of it. The Ick-Spore, if I remember correctly is something resident in the tank, and if the fish you treated did;nt recently bring it in , if it IS, in fact, ick, it's still in the tank and the whole tank should probably be treated. What little I remember about 'ick' treatment chemistry is that it/they're very toxic chemicals, and I can't imagine anything I've read diluting the stuff to treat like e merchurochrome swab. As a matter of fact, just from reasoning the properties of the ick paasite, a manufacturer or retailer recommending spot treatment seems contraindicated.
                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > dang it darn it foooooo!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > In my 38gal where I keep 1 plec, 4 gourami, 1 apple snail, 2
                                                                                                                        > mollies, I spot treated one of the gourami for what looked like it
                                                                                                                        > might be a spot of ick on it's caudal fin...now the fin looks
                                                                                                                        > shredded!
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > If anyone has experience in this area, I'd appreciate feedback. On
                                                                                                                        > the good side, the "ick" looks like it it fading. I've turned the
                                                                                                                        > heat up a tiny bit, but now her fin is a bit frayed. Did I fudge up?
                                                                                                                        > I netted her out of the tank and spot treated it with diluted ick
                                                                                                                        > cure. Now I'm totally freakin out because I dont want to risk the
                                                                                                                        > rest of the tank, but, at this time I don't have a tank available to
                                                                                                                        > make it a hospital tank. <sigh>
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > It's water change day so I am hoping this will help some more.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ciao for now ~
                                                                                                                        > J
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1603 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: #$%^&*
                                                                                                                        i have a fish that's had a spot that looks like ick for about 2 months
                                                                                                                        now. at first i got worried and treated everyone with aquarisol,
                                                                                                                        although no one else had any spots and this fish only had one spot.
                                                                                                                        it's 2 months later now and no other fish has ick and that one fish
                                                                                                                        still has one tiny little white dot on it's pectoral fin. the fish is
                                                                                                                        happy, healthy and breeding, so i've given up trying to get rid of the
                                                                                                                        spot since it seems to be annoying me a lot more than it's annoying the
                                                                                                                        fish. perhaps your fish has something similar? this wouldn't explain
                                                                                                                        the shredding, but that could be unrelated, i.e. another fish tearing
                                                                                                                        into it. it's very hard to say. if i were you, i'd put that fish in a
                                                                                                                        hospital tank and treat everyone for ick, (aquarisol is great because
                                                                                                                        it's mild, doesn't dye the water, and is safe for snails and scaleless
                                                                                                                        fish like pictus cats) just to be on the safe side...
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 3, 2004, at 5:56 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                        >    How did you hear about 'SPOT-TREATMENT'? Never heard of it. The
                                                                                                                        > Ick-Spore, if I remember correctly is something resident in the tank,
                                                                                                                        > and if the fish you treated did;nt recently bring it in , if it IS, in
                                                                                                                        > fact,  ick, it's still in the tank and the whole tank should probably
                                                                                                                        > be treated. What little I remember about 'ick' treatment chemistry is
                                                                                                                        > that it/they're very toxic chemicals, and I can't imagine anything
                                                                                                                        > I've read diluting the stuff to treat like e merchurochrome swab. As a
                                                                                                                        > matter of fact, just from reasoning the properties of the ick paasite,
                                                                                                                        > a manufacturer or retailer recommending spot treatment seems
                                                                                                                        > contraindicated.
                                                                                                                        >                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > > dang it darn it foooooo!
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > In my 38gal where I keep 1 plec, 4 gourami, 1 apple snail, 2
                                                                                                                        > > mollies, I spot treated one of the gourami for what looked like it
                                                                                                                        > > might be a spot of ick on it's caudal fin...now the fin looks
                                                                                                                        > > shredded!
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > If anyone has experience in this area, I'd appreciate feedback. On
                                                                                                                        > > the good side, the "ick" looks like it it fading. I've turned the
                                                                                                                        > > heat up a tiny bit, but now her fin is a bit frayed. Did I fudge up?
                                                                                                                        > > I netted her out of the tank and spot treated it with diluted ick
                                                                                                                        > > cure. Now I'm totally freakin out because I dont want to risk the
                                                                                                                        > > rest of the tank, but, at this time I don't have a tank available to
                                                                                                                        > > make it a hospital tank. <sigh>
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > It's water change day so I am hoping this will help some more.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > ciao for now ~
                                                                                                                        > > J
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > 
                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1604 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: #$%^&*
                                                                                                                        My LFS has almost all his fish infected with ick. If your fish are healthy
                                                                                                                        and stress free, they can very easily combat ick infection. I have never had
                                                                                                                        a ick problem despite the fish coming from the fish store is infected with
                                                                                                                        ick. I used to have a quarantine tank, but the surplus fry have consumed it.
                                                                                                                        Within a week, the newly introduced with that was infected with ick will
                                                                                                                        also become disease free and ick does not spread to other fish.

                                                                                                                        If ick spreads, I see the water quality and stress to be the only reason.
                                                                                                                        Some researches also said that ick spores are present in almost any water
                                                                                                                        (even tap water) except RO and UV Filtered water, so a breakout of ick is
                                                                                                                        only when the fish's immune system is not able to protect it.

                                                                                                                        Stressing on this theory, my tank setups seemed to have proved it. However,
                                                                                                                        adding salt at 1-2 tsp per gallon of water and raising the temperature to
                                                                                                                        30c normally eradicates ick. Maybe not from the tank, but from the fish.
                                                                                                                        Once the fish are healthy again, the ick parasite will not be able to
                                                                                                                        penetrate the immune system.

                                                                                                                        Nim


                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                        >From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                                        >Sent: 03 April 2004 23:56
                                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] #$%^&*
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > How did you hear about 'SPOT-TREATMENT'? Never heard of it. The Ick-
                                                                                                                        >Spore, if I remember correctly is something resident in the tank, and if
                                                                                                                        >the fish you treated did;nt recently bring it in , if it IS, in fact, ick,
                                                                                                                        >it's still in the tank and the whole tank should probably be treated. What
                                                                                                                        >little I remember about 'ick' treatment chemistry is that it/they're very
                                                                                                                        >toxic chemicals, and I can't imagine anything I've read diluting the stuff
                                                                                                                        >to treat like e merchurochrome swab. As a matter of fact, just from
                                                                                                                        >reasoning the properties of the ick paasite, a manufacturer or retailer
                                                                                                                        >recommending spot treatment seems contraindicated.
                                                                                                                        > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        >> dang it darn it foooooo!
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> In my 38gal where I keep 1 plec, 4 gourami, 1 apple snail, 2
                                                                                                                        >> mollies, I spot treated one of the gourami for what looked like it
                                                                                                                        >> might be a spot of ick on it's caudal fin...now the fin looks
                                                                                                                        >> shredded!
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> If anyone has experience in this area, I'd appreciate feedback. On
                                                                                                                        >> the good side, the "ick" looks like it it fading. I've turned the
                                                                                                                        >> heat up a tiny bit, but now her fin is a bit frayed. Did I fudge up?
                                                                                                                        >> I netted her out of the tank and spot treated it with diluted ick
                                                                                                                        >> cure. Now I'm totally freakin out because I dont want to risk the
                                                                                                                        >> rest of the tank, but, at this time I don't have a tank available to
                                                                                                                        >> make it a hospital tank. <sigh>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> It's water change day so I am hoping this will help some more.
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >> ciao for now ~
                                                                                                                        >> J
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                        >>
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                                                                                                                        >>
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                                                                                                                        >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1605 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: #$%^&*
                                                                                                                        If the shredding occured after the topical ick treatment, the cuasticity of the treatment could have caused it, and possibly killed the fish. I'm interested in knowing how the knowledge of topical treatment came to be?
                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > i have a fish that's had a spot that looks like ick for about 2 months
                                                                                                                        > now. at first i got worried and treated everyone with aquarisol,
                                                                                                                        > although no one else had any spots and this fish only had one spot.
                                                                                                                        > it's 2 months later now and no other fish has ick and that one fish
                                                                                                                        > still has one tiny little white dot on it's pectoral fin. the fish is
                                                                                                                        > happy, healthy and breeding, so i've given up trying to get rid of the
                                                                                                                        > spot since it seems to be annoying me a lot more than it's annoying the
                                                                                                                        > fish. perhaps your fish has something similar? this wouldn't explain
                                                                                                                        > the shredding, but that could be unrelated, i.e. another fish tearing
                                                                                                                        > into it. it's very hard to say. if i were you, i'd put that fish in a
                                                                                                                        > hospital tank and treat everyone for ick, (aquarisol is great because
                                                                                                                        > it's mild, doesn't dye the water, and is safe for snails and scaleless
                                                                                                                        > fish like pictus cats) just to be on the safe side...
                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                        > On Apr 3, 2004, at 5:56 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                        >

                                                                                                                        > > �� How did you hear about 'SPOT-TREATMENT'? Never heard of it. The
                                                                                                                        > > Ick-Spore, if I remember correctly is something resident in the tank,
                                                                                                                        > > and if the fish you treated did;nt recently bring it in , if it IS, in
                                                                                                                        > > fact,� ick, it's still in the tank and the whole tank should probably
                                                                                                                        > > be treated. What little I remember about 'ick' treatment chemistry is
                                                                                                                        > > that it/they're very toxic chemicals, and I can't imagine anything
                                                                                                                        > > I've read diluting the stuff to treat like e merchurochrome swab. As a
                                                                                                                        > > matter of fact, just from reasoning the properties of the ick paasite,
                                                                                                                        > > a manufacturer or retailer recommending spot treatment seems
                                                                                                                        > > contraindicated.
                                                                                                                        > > ���������������� Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > > > dang it darn it foooooo!
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > > In my 38gal where I keep 1 plec, 4 gourami, 1 apple snail, 2
                                                                                                                        > > > mollies, I spot treated one of the gourami for what looked like it
                                                                                                                        > > > might be a spot of ick on it's caudal fin...now the fin looks
                                                                                                                        > > > shredded!
                                                                                                                        > > >

                                                                                                                        > > > If anyone has experience in this area, I'd appreciate feedback. On
                                                                                                                        > > > the good side, the "ick" looks like it it fading. I've turned the
                                                                                                                        > > > heat up a tiny bit, but now her fin is a bit frayed. Did I fudge up?
                                                                                                                        > > > I netted her out of the tank and spot treated it with diluted ick
                                                                                                                        > > > cure. Now I'm totally freakin out because I dont want to risk the
                                                                                                                        > > > rest of the tank, but, at this time I don't have a tank available to
                                                                                                                        > > > make it a hospital tank. <sigh>
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > > It's water change day so I am hoping this will help some more.
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > > ciao for now ~
                                                                                                                        > > > J
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >�
                                                                                                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >
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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1606 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/3/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: #$%^&*
                                                                                                                        I remember one of the chemicals used in ick treatment is 'formaldehyde', and it's poisonous in concentration. Never having heard of spot-treating 'ick', because 'ick' is an environmental disease, not a topically treated disease, (like spraying for/against mosquitos, not treating the bug that's stinging you, or fleas, not the killing of the bug that's biting you. You must treat the environment to rid the environment of the ick-spores. I've had fish that had what looked like an ick-spot, and treated consequently, and the spot stayed, along with spotless other fishes. I thought it could have been a pustule, but thought also that it would have grown, and it did'nt. Nothing spread. There were worms in the tank periodically, but none of the other fish had the symptom. What with the cost of vetrinary visits, and the fact that some/most are'nt qualified to treat small fish, that ended that part of fish health concerns for me. If you could find a lab (university, etc) that's interested in diagnosing such things, (without needing to kill the fish for a sample), you'd be fortunate. A macro'd photo could help.
                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                                        > i have a fish that's had a spot that looks like ick for about 2 months
                                                                                                                        > now. at first i got worried and treated everyone with aquarisol,
                                                                                                                        > although no one else had any spots and this fish only had one spot.
                                                                                                                        > it's 2 months later now and no other fish has ick and that one fish
                                                                                                                        > still has one tiny little white dot on it's pectoral fin. the fish is
                                                                                                                        > happy, healthy and breeding, so i've given up trying to get rid of the
                                                                                                                        > spot since it seems to be annoying me a lot more than it's annoying the
                                                                                                                        > fish. perhaps your fish has something similar? this wouldn't explain
                                                                                                                        > the shredding, but that could be unrelated, i.e. another fish tearing
                                                                                                                        > into it. it's very hard to say. if i were you, i'd put that fish in a
                                                                                                                        > hospital tank and treat everyone for ick, (aquarisol is great because
                                                                                                                        > it's mild, doesn't dye the water, and is safe for snails and scaleless
                                                                                                                        > fish like pictus cats) just to be on the safe side...
                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                        > On Apr 3, 2004, at 5:56 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                        >

                                                                                                                        > > �� How did you hear about 'SPOT-TREATMENT'? Never heard of it. The
                                                                                                                        > > Ick-Spore, if I remember correctly is something resident in the tank,
                                                                                                                        > > and if the fish you treated did;nt recently bring it in , if it IS, in
                                                                                                                        > > fact,� ick, it's still in the tank and the whole tank should probably
                                                                                                                        > > be treated. What little I remember about 'ick' treatment chemistry is
                                                                                                                        > > that it/they're very toxic chemicals, and I can't imagine anything
                                                                                                                        > > I've read diluting the stuff to treat like e merchurochrome swab. As a
                                                                                                                        > > matter of fact, just from reasoning the properties of the ick paasite,
                                                                                                                        > > a manufacturer or retailer recommending spot treatment seems
                                                                                                                        > > contraindicated.
                                                                                                                        > > ���������������� Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > > > dang it darn it foooooo!
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > > In my 38gal where I keep 1 plec, 4 gourami, 1 apple snail, 2
                                                                                                                        > > > mollies, I spot treated one of the gourami for what looked like it
                                                                                                                        > > > might be a spot of ick on it's caudal fin...now the fin looks
                                                                                                                        > > > shredded!
                                                                                                                        > > >

                                                                                                                        > > > If anyone has experience in this area, I'd appreciate feedback. On
                                                                                                                        > > > the good side, the "ick" looks like it it fading. I've turned the
                                                                                                                        > > > heat up a tiny bit, but now her fin is a bit frayed. Did I fudge up?
                                                                                                                        > > > I netted her out of the tank and spot treated it with diluted ick
                                                                                                                        > > > cure. Now I'm totally freakin out because I dont want to risk the
                                                                                                                        > > > rest of the tank, but, at this time I don't have a tank available to
                                                                                                                        > > > make it a hospital tank. <sigh>
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > > It's water change day so I am hoping this will help some more.
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > > ciao for now ~
                                                                                                                        > > > J
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >�
                                                                                                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >����� FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                        > > >�
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                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                                                        > > �

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                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1607 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Newbie
                                                                                                                        Hi, everyone.

                                                                                                                        I just joined today. I'm going to be setting up my 55-gallon
                                                                                                                        aquarium in a few weeks. It will be freshwater tropical, and I
                                                                                                                        thought I'd get some info before I make a few tragic mistakes and
                                                                                                                        blow my money by killing everything.

                                                                                                                        I've been to a web site called www.pets-warehouse.com and they seem
                                                                                                                        to have everything I will need, including the plants. I already know
                                                                                                                        that plants need carbon dioxide (as well as light) in order for
                                                                                                                        photosynthesis to occur. I also know that the fish will need oxygen,
                                                                                                                        but give off the carbon dioxide. Sorry if this sounds preschool
                                                                                                                        level, I just want to be as detailed as possible so that everyone
                                                                                                                        will know what my level of knowledge is. What I need to know, first
                                                                                                                        off, is how much to I need to oxygenate the water? I do want it
                                                                                                                        fairly well populated with plants such as lance spearhead, anubias
                                                                                                                        gracilis, cryptocoryne longicauda, light green and red cabombas, and
                                                                                                                        lyreleaf watercress.

                                                                                                                        I've almost definitely decided on a fluidized bed filter, and I will
                                                                                                                        be getting a tank heater... I live in upstate NY, and want to make
                                                                                                                        sure my fish don't get cooled off if I have to open the door for any
                                                                                                                        length of time in the winter.

                                                                                                                        What I'm going to start off with is the plants. I thought of getting
                                                                                                                        some soft sand for the bottom of the tank, but then I wondered if it
                                                                                                                        would clog the filter. The web site I mentioned above recommends
                                                                                                                        that filter and has some pretty good things to say about it, though.
                                                                                                                        I want to make the habitat as realistic as possible for the fish,
                                                                                                                        though.

                                                                                                                        Here are some of the fish I've decided on:

                                                                                                                        2 Algae eaters
                                                                                                                        2 Marble Sailfin Mollies
                                                                                                                        2 Green Cobra Guppies
                                                                                                                        6 Zebra Danios
                                                                                                                        6 Blue Dalmation Platys

                                                                                                                        My mom used to keep fish similar to these when I was growing up, but
                                                                                                                        she never had the live plants in any of her aquariums. We had lots
                                                                                                                        of swordtails, snails and other easy to keep fish. For the mollies
                                                                                                                        and guppies, I think I'm going to get two of the same sex so that I
                                                                                                                        don't wind up with thousands and thousands of fish that I have no way
                                                                                                                        of taking care of. Of course, except for the algae eaters, the
                                                                                                                        numbers of each type of fish are just speculation, though I did read
                                                                                                                        that danios like to group in larger shoals.

                                                                                                                        Also, I know little about water conditioners. We have hard water up
                                                                                                                        here, so I need to know about the best way to go about conditioning
                                                                                                                        the water. I've seen some products, such as Hagen Aqua Plus, it's
                                                                                                                        supposed to get all of the chlorines and chloramines out of the
                                                                                                                        water, plus help the fish maintain their mucous coating. And I've
                                                                                                                        also looked at aquarium salts, but I'm not at all sure about how much
                                                                                                                        salt to add to a 55-gallon aquarium. Heck, I don't even remember my
                                                                                                                        mother ever adding salt to hers.

                                                                                                                        I'm going to read some previous posts and maybe find out answers to
                                                                                                                        questions I didn't even know I had at this point. I do know I want
                                                                                                                        the plants to be thriving for a while before I ever add any fish, and
                                                                                                                        I know to quarantine the fish before adding them to the tank. As for
                                                                                                                        the fish themselves, I'm going to visit pet stores in the area and
                                                                                                                        look at them, educate myself on their care, and then get the
                                                                                                                        healthiest specimens. Realistically, I don't see a significant
                                                                                                                        number of fish in the tank before this fall. And although I'm
                                                                                                                        interested in the fish I listed above (mainly because I know they are
                                                                                                                        easy to raise), except for the algae eaters, which I will add first,
                                                                                                                        I'm not sure which I will end up with. I do know that most fish have
                                                                                                                        a lifespan of more than a couple of months if treated right, and I
                                                                                                                        certainly want to make sure the tank is understocked rather than
                                                                                                                        packed.

                                                                                                                        Basically, I'm just wanting to keep my fish and plants healthy and
                                                                                                                        alive. Speaking of the plants, do they need a fertilizer, or will
                                                                                                                        the fish fertilize the plants enough by themselves? Also, regarding
                                                                                                                        ammonia, how much is too much, and does it help the plants, or should
                                                                                                                        I keep the level down constantly?

                                                                                                                        Well, I've probably worn everyone out with questions, so I'll sign
                                                                                                                        off for now.

                                                                                                                        Have a blessed day.
                                                                                                                        Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        Lorelei
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1608 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        Lorelai ...
                                                                                                                        Your number for platys is great, but your mollies are going to be depressed
                                                                                                                        and not at their best... mollies are schooling fish. You need at LEAST three
                                                                                                                        preferably more. Think more like the number of platys you had in mind. I've
                                                                                                                        got an all female tank (except for three of my mollie fry, which I have
                                                                                                                        finally been able to determine are male ... and they are headed to a local
                                                                                                                        pet store in a few days) and they do fine. I have one platy fry that I was
                                                                                                                        afraid would get eaten, so I kept him isolated when the rest of the fry
                                                                                                                        moved to the big tank. He stopped eating and didn't swim much ... as soon as
                                                                                                                        I moved him to the main tank to be with the other fish, he improved
                                                                                                                        drastically, and is now sort of acting as a body guard for two newer fry
                                                                                                                        that are significantly younger and smaller than the other fish. (He's closer
                                                                                                                        to their size, so the three of them hang out together constantly, even
                                                                                                                        though the other two are mollies, not platys.) Schooling fish are really
                                                                                                                        social and don't do well in isolation.

                                                                                                                        I don't know if guppies are schooling fish or not, someone who is better
                                                                                                                        versed on guppies would have to fill you in on that info. I've learned a lot
                                                                                                                        being in this group, hope you can as well. :)

                                                                                                                        Happy fish keeping!
                                                                                                                        Erin


                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                        From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Date: 04/04/04 14:55:17
                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Newbie

                                                                                                                        I'm going to be setting up my 55-gallon
                                                                                                                        aquarium in a few weeks. It will be freshwater tropical, and I
                                                                                                                        thought I'd get some info before I make a few tragic mistakes and
                                                                                                                        blow my money by killing everything.

                                                                                                                        Here are some of the fish I've decided on:

                                                                                                                        2 Algae eaters
                                                                                                                        2 Marble Sailfin Mollies
                                                                                                                        2 Green Cobra Guppies
                                                                                                                        6 Zebra Danios
                                                                                                                        6 Blue Dalmation Platys
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1609 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        Dear Erin,

                                                                                                                        Thank you very much for the information. I'm thinking along the
                                                                                                                        lines of an all female tank, as well. I don't mind having a male and
                                                                                                                        female if I ever get a "hard to breed" species, because the chances
                                                                                                                        of them producing too many for a tank would be slim to none,
                                                                                                                        probably. At this point, I'm not sure exactly what species I will
                                                                                                                        end up with, though I've seen some pictures of the blue dalmation
                                                                                                                        platys, and I definitely want some of those. We have a nice Wal Mart
                                                                                                                        up here, and I've looked at some of their fish from time to time, and
                                                                                                                        all of the tanks have been clean, and the fish have appeared healthy,
                                                                                                                        so I may be making some of my selections from them.

                                                                                                                        The plants are first on my mind at the moment, since they will be the
                                                                                                                        first occupants of the tank. How much should I oxygenate the tank
                                                                                                                        when I have the fish and plants together? I want enough CO2 for the
                                                                                                                        plants, but I don't want to suffocate my fish. Since I have a 55-
                                                                                                                        gallon aquarium, I'm thinking of getting two 12" airstones and having
                                                                                                                        a line of bubbles across the back of the tank. Would that be
                                                                                                                        sufficient? I love plants, so I definitely want my landscape to
                                                                                                                        thrive. What kind of bulbs would you recommend? I am going to have
                                                                                                                        the tank pretty near my living room windows, and they will get quite
                                                                                                                        a bit of natural light. I know in our office all kinds of plants are
                                                                                                                        thriving under plain flourescent lights... is it that way with
                                                                                                                        aquarium plants as well, or would I need one of the pricier bulbs?
                                                                                                                        On the pets-warehouse web site, they have a coralife actinic
                                                                                                                        flourexcent 48" bulb (if anyone wants to see it, the SKU number is
                                                                                                                        9631600832... you can look up specific products on this web site).
                                                                                                                        It's only 14.04, so that isn't too bad.

                                                                                                                        I've also seen all kinds of hoods. Some hold one flourescent, some
                                                                                                                        two flourescents, and some of them hold one flourescent and two
                                                                                                                        incandescent. Which kind is best, and does anyone have a favorite
                                                                                                                        they can recommend? I don't mind spending a couple dollars more as
                                                                                                                        long as the quality is very good. The health of my aquarium is a
                                                                                                                        priority, since I will obviously spend less on "maintenance" products
                                                                                                                        than I would if I needed a steady stream of medications.

                                                                                                                        God bless you.
                                                                                                                        Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        Lorelei

                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                                                                                        VanKouwenberg" <celticmommy@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Lorelai ...
                                                                                                                        > Your number for platys is great, but your mollies are going to be
                                                                                                                        depressed and not at their best... mollies are schooling fish. You
                                                                                                                        need at LEAST three preferably more. Think more like the number of
                                                                                                                        platys you had in mind.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1610 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        I have a book that states; '..airstones bring in negligible amounts of oxygen into the water." What oxygenates water in the same principle as airstones (air pressure forcing air onto and into the waters' ) generally, in an aquarium, is the circulation brought about by filtration, that causes water-motion allowing the constant interface between atmospheric-pressure and the tank water. What I've read relatively consistantly is that your filtration/pumps should produce a 5 or 6 fold turnover of tank-water-volume-per-hour.
                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > Dear Erin,
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Thank you very much for the information. I'm thinking along the
                                                                                                                        > lines of an all female tank, as well. I don't mind having a male and
                                                                                                                        > female if I ever get a "hard to breed" species, because the chances
                                                                                                                        > of them producing too many for a tank would be slim to none,
                                                                                                                        > probably. At this point, I'm not sure exactly what species I will
                                                                                                                        > end up with, though I've seen some pictures of the blue dalmation
                                                                                                                        > platys, and I definitely want some of those. We have a nice Wal Mart
                                                                                                                        > up here, and I've looked at some of their fish from time to time, and
                                                                                                                        > all of the tanks have been clean, and the fish have appeared healthy,
                                                                                                                        > so I may be making some of my selections from them.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > The plants are first on my mind at the moment, since they will be the
                                                                                                                        > first occupants of the tank. How much should I oxygenate the tank
                                                                                                                        > when I have the fish and plants together? I want enough CO2 for the
                                                                                                                        > plants, but I don't want to suffocate my fish. Since I have a 55-

                                                                                                                        > gallon aquarium, I'm thinking of getting two 12" airstones and having
                                                                                                                        > a line of bubbles across the back of the tank. Would that be
                                                                                                                        > sufficient? I love plants, so I definitely want my landscape to
                                                                                                                        > thrive. What kind of bulbs would you recommend? I am going to have
                                                                                                                        > the tank pretty near my living room windows, and they will get quite
                                                                                                                        > a bit of natural light. I know in our office all kinds of plants are
                                                                                                                        > thriving under plain flourescent lights... is it that way with
                                                                                                                        > aquarium plants as well, or would I need one of the pricier bulbs?
                                                                                                                        > On the pets-warehouse web site, they have a coralife actinic
                                                                                                                        > flourexcent 48" bulb (if anyone wants to see it, the SKU number is
                                                                                                                        > 9631600832... you can look up specific products on this web site).
                                                                                                                        > It's only 14.04, so that isn't too bad.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I've also seen all kinds of hoods. Some hold one flourescent, some
                                                                                                                        > two flourescents, and some of them hold one flourescent and two
                                                                                                                        > incandescent. Which kind is best, and does anyone have a favorite

                                                                                                                        > they can recommend? I don't mind spending a couple dollars more as
                                                                                                                        > long as the quality is very good. The health of my aquarium is a
                                                                                                                        > priority, since I will obviously spend less on "maintenance" products
                                                                                                                        > than I would if I needed a steady stream of medications.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > God bless you.
                                                                                                                        > Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        > Lorelei
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                                                                                        > VanKouwenberg" <celticmommy@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Lorelai ...
                                                                                                                        > > Your number for platys is great, but your mollies are going to be
                                                                                                                        > depressed and not at their best... mollies are schooling fish. You
                                                                                                                        > need at LEAST three preferably more. Think more like the number of
                                                                                                                        > platys you had in mind.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1611 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        I want to make sure I'm understanding what you said correctly... what
                                                                                                                        I really need to pay attention to is a good filter that will
                                                                                                                        circulate the water (produce the turnover you mentioned), and the
                                                                                                                        water will be oxygenated enough? Do I need air stones at all, then?
                                                                                                                        I do plan to have quite a few plants in the aquarium, and I know they
                                                                                                                        will produce oxygen.

                                                                                                                        One reason I was wondering about the air stones is because I got to
                                                                                                                        thinking that in the wild, fish do not have air stones bubbling every
                                                                                                                        few feet, but streams and ponds that have a lot of plants and a lot
                                                                                                                        of water circulation seem to do just fine.

                                                                                                                        I really like all the patient answers I'm getting from this group.
                                                                                                                        I've joined groups in the past where more experienced members talk
                                                                                                                        down to those who don't know as much, but I haven't experienced that
                                                                                                                        here, and it really makes me glad that I joined.

                                                                                                                        God bless you.

                                                                                                                        Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        Lorelei

                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                        j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                        > I have a book that states; '..airstones bring in negligible
                                                                                                                        amounts of oxygen into the water." What oxygenates water in the same
                                                                                                                        principle as airstones (air pressure forcing air onto and into the
                                                                                                                        waters' ) generally, in an aquarium, is the circulation brought about
                                                                                                                        by filtration, that causes water-motion allowing the constant
                                                                                                                        interface between atmospheric-pressure and the tank water. What I've
                                                                                                                        read relatively consistantly is that your filtration/pumps should
                                                                                                                        produce a 5 or 6 fold turnover of tank-water-volume-per-hour.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1612 From: Ryan Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Bacteria Infection?
                                                                                                                        In the past two weeks I have lost 2/3 of my adult guppies. Many
                                                                                                                        babies have died as well. The fish have clamped fins, some have a
                                                                                                                        string of feces. I don't know if this helps but my pond snails have
                                                                                                                        all turned opaque and many have died. Many are not eating and have
                                                                                                                        lost some color. I was wondering if anyone out there could help me
                                                                                                                        with a diagnosis (bacteria hopefully not TB) and a possible cure.
                                                                                                                        My water parameters are all good.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1613 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        air stones don't actually work by pumping air into the water, the way
                                                                                                                        they work is that they disrupt the surface and allow for oxygen
                                                                                                                        exchange. they are also an attractive addition to aquariums. people who
                                                                                                                        use any kind of wet/dry filter, such as a biowheel, generally don't
                                                                                                                        need to use an air stone as well. if you want to heavily stock a tank,
                                                                                                                        then an air stone can be a helpful addition and it's always a good idea
                                                                                                                        to keep one on hand because certain water treatments and medications
                                                                                                                        can drastically reduce water's oxygen content and an air stone can help
                                                                                                                        to dissipate these chemicals...
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 4, 2004, at 11:18 PM, loreleicosner wrote:

                                                                                                                        > I want to make sure I'm understanding what you said correctly... what
                                                                                                                        > I really need to pay attention to is a good filter that will
                                                                                                                        > circulate the water (produce the turnover you mentioned), and the
                                                                                                                        > water will be oxygenated enough?  Do I need air stones at all, then? 
                                                                                                                        > I do plan to have quite a few plants in the aquarium, and I know they
                                                                                                                        > will produce oxygen.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > One reason I was wondering about the air stones is because I got to
                                                                                                                        > thinking that in the wild, fish do not have air stones bubbling every
                                                                                                                        > few feet, but streams and ponds that have a lot of plants and a lot
                                                                                                                        > of water circulation seem to do just fine.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I really like all the patient answers I'm getting from this group. 
                                                                                                                        > I've joined groups in the past where more experienced members talk
                                                                                                                        > down to those who don't know as much, but I haven't experienced that
                                                                                                                        > here, and it really makes me glad that I joined.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > God bless you.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        > Lorelei
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                        > j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                        > >    I have a book that states; '..airstones bring in negligible
                                                                                                                        > amounts of oxygen into the water." What oxygenates water in the same
                                                                                                                        > principle as airstones (air pressure forcing air onto and into the
                                                                                                                        > waters' ) generally, in an aquarium, is the circulation brought about
                                                                                                                        > by filtration, that causes water-motion allowing the constant
                                                                                                                        > interface between atmospheric-pressure and the tank water. What I've
                                                                                                                        > read relatively consistantly is that your filtration/pumps should
                                                                                                                        > produce a 5 or 6 fold turnover of tank-water-volume-per-hour.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                        > <yhoo0404_a_300250A.gif>
                                                                                                                        > <l.gif>
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                        for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                        religion....
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1614 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        Thank you for the clarification. I may actually go ahead and get the
                                                                                                                        airstones, then. Is a bio-wheel filter better than a fluidized bed
                                                                                                                        filter? I never was old enough to really take care of my mom's tanks
                                                                                                                        way back when, so I don't actually know much at all about the
                                                                                                                        different kinds of filters, and the pros and cons. I know some of
                                                                                                                        the under-gravel filters can get clogged easily, from what I've
                                                                                                                        read. I do want to make sure I get the best kind of filter for the
                                                                                                                        fish.

                                                                                                                        God bless you.
                                                                                                                        Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        Lorelei

                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                        <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > air stones don't actually work by pumping air into the water, the
                                                                                                                        way
                                                                                                                        > they work is that they disrupt the surface and allow for oxygen
                                                                                                                        > exchange. they are also an attractive addition to aquariums. people
                                                                                                                        who
                                                                                                                        > use any kind of wet/dry filter, such as a biowheel, generally don't
                                                                                                                        > need to use an air stone as well. if you want to heavily stock a
                                                                                                                        tank,
                                                                                                                        > then an air stone can be a helpful addition and it's always a good
                                                                                                                        idea
                                                                                                                        > to keep one on hand because certain water treatments and
                                                                                                                        medications
                                                                                                                        > can drastically reduce water's oxygen content and an air stone can
                                                                                                                        help
                                                                                                                        > to dissipate these chemicals...
                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1615 From: r_ohle Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
                                                                                                                        I am going to guess that it your snails

                                                                                                                        regards,
                                                                                                                        red-eye




                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan"
                                                                                                                        <sirskankalot@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > In the past two weeks I have lost 2/3 of my adult guppies. Many
                                                                                                                        > babies have died as well. The fish have clamped fins, some have a
                                                                                                                        > string of feces. I don't know if this helps but my pond snails have
                                                                                                                        > all turned opaque and many have died. Many are not eating and have
                                                                                                                        > lost some color. I was wondering if anyone out there could help me
                                                                                                                        > with a diagnosis (bacteria hopefully not TB) and a possible cure.
                                                                                                                        > My water parameters are all good.
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1616 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        personally, i run a biowheel and a canister, but that's really
                                                                                                                        overkill. i just like to have the option to load up my tank, even
                                                                                                                        though i don't. biowheels are really a great and low maintenance filter
                                                                                                                        that are perfect for beginners...
                                                                                                                        i have a moderately planted tank (i really ought to post some new
                                                                                                                        pictures because it's looking nice and dense and green in there now)
                                                                                                                        and i don't inject co2 or even have a special substrate, so you CAN
                                                                                                                        have plants with little effort, you just have to be choosy and willing
                                                                                                                        to experiment with them :)
                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                        On Apr 4, 2004, at 11:53 PM, loreleicosner wrote:

                                                                                                                        > Thank you for the clarification.  I may actually go ahead and get the
                                                                                                                        > airstones, then.  Is a bio-wheel filter better than a fluidized bed
                                                                                                                        > filter?  I never was old enough to really take care of my mom's tanks
                                                                                                                        > way back when, so I don't actually know much at all about the
                                                                                                                        > different kinds of filters, and the pros and cons.  I know some of
                                                                                                                        > the under-gravel filters can get clogged easily, from what I've
                                                                                                                        > read.  I do want to make sure I get the best kind of filter for the
                                                                                                                        > fish.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > God bless you.
                                                                                                                        > Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        > Lorelei
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                        > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                        > > air stones don't actually work by pumping air into the water, the
                                                                                                                        > way
                                                                                                                        > > they work is that they disrupt the surface and allow for oxygen
                                                                                                                        > > exchange. they are also an attractive addition to aquariums. people
                                                                                                                        > who
                                                                                                                        > > use any kind of wet/dry filter, such as a biowheel, generally don't
                                                                                                                        > > need to use an air stone as well. if you want to heavily stock a
                                                                                                                        > tank,
                                                                                                                        > > then an air stone can be a helpful addition and it's always a good
                                                                                                                        > idea
                                                                                                                        > > to keep one on hand because certain water treatments and
                                                                                                                        > medications
                                                                                                                        > > can drastically reduce water's oxygen content and an air stone can
                                                                                                                        > help
                                                                                                                        > > to dissipate these chemicals...
                                                                                                                        > > amalthea
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                        for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                        religion....
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1617 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        I've not learned anything other than what I'd written about 5 to 6 tank-water volumes per-hour, and since there are more experienced members of this group, perhaps they will confirm or modify the factors of insuring oxygen/air turnover in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > I want to make sure I'm understanding what you said correctly... what
                                                                                                                        > I really need to pay attention to is a good filter that will
                                                                                                                        > circulate the water (produce the turnover you mentioned), and the
                                                                                                                        > water will be oxygenated enough? Do I need air stones at all, then?
                                                                                                                        > I do plan to have quite a few plants in the aquarium, and I know they
                                                                                                                        > will produce oxygen.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > One reason I was wondering about the air stones is because I got to
                                                                                                                        > thinking that in the wild, fish do not have air stones bubbling every
                                                                                                                        > few feet, but streams and ponds that have a lot of plants and a lot
                                                                                                                        > of water circulation seem to do just fine.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I really like all the patient answers I'm getting from this group.
                                                                                                                        > I've joined groups in the past where more experienced members talk
                                                                                                                        > down to those who don't know as much, but I haven't experienced that
                                                                                                                        > here, and it really makes me glad that I joined.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > God bless you.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        > Lorelei
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                        > j.pascavage@c... wrote:

                                                                                                                        > > I have a book that states; '..airstones bring in negligible
                                                                                                                        > amounts of oxygen into the water." What oxygenates water in the same
                                                                                                                        > principle as airstones (air pressure forcing air onto and into the
                                                                                                                        > waters' ) generally, in an aquarium, is the circulation brought about
                                                                                                                        > by filtration, that causes water-motion allowing the constant
                                                                                                                        > interface between atmospheric-pressure and the tank water. What I've
                                                                                                                        > read relatively consistantly is that your filtration/pumps should
                                                                                                                        > produce a 5 or 6 fold turnover of tank-water-volume-per-hour.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1618 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        PS
                                                                                                                        (SHOULD HAVE INCLUDED THIS IN MY LAST EMAIL. )
                                                                                                                        The filters I've bought have indicated the number of gallons-per-hour.
                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > I want to make sure I'm understanding what you said correctly... what
                                                                                                                        > I really need to pay attention to is a good filter that will
                                                                                                                        > circulate the water (produce the turnover you mentioned), and the
                                                                                                                        > water will be oxygenated enough? Do I need air stones at all, then?
                                                                                                                        > I do plan to have quite a few plants in the aquarium, and I know they
                                                                                                                        > will produce oxygen.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > One reason I was wondering about the air stones is because I got to
                                                                                                                        > thinking that in the wild, fish do not have air stones bubbling every
                                                                                                                        > few feet, but streams and ponds that have a lot of plants and a lot
                                                                                                                        > of water circulation seem to do just fine.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > I really like all the patient answers I'm getting from this group.
                                                                                                                        > I've joined groups in the past where more experienced members talk
                                                                                                                        > down to those who don't know as much, but I haven't experienced that
                                                                                                                        > here, and it really makes me glad that I joined.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > God bless you.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        > Lorelei
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                        > j.pascavage@c... wrote:

                                                                                                                        > > I have a book that states; '..airstones bring in negligible
                                                                                                                        > amounts of oxygen into the water." What oxygenates water in the same
                                                                                                                        > principle as airstones (air pressure forcing air onto and into the
                                                                                                                        > waters' ) generally, in an aquarium, is the circulation brought about
                                                                                                                        > by filtration, that causes water-motion allowing the constant
                                                                                                                        > interface between atmospheric-pressure and the tank water. What I've
                                                                                                                        > read relatively consistantly is that your filtration/pumps should
                                                                                                                        > produce a 5 or 6 fold turnover of tank-water-volume-per-hour.
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1619 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/4/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                        I believe if you had the surface area of your aquarium, and the surface-area of the bubbles that are injected by pump into the depth of the water, at any given moment, you would have the atmospheric-gas at slightly greater than atmospheric presure, (because of the compression engendered by the pump), and the consequent pressure because of the weight of the water at depth, interfacing, and that would introduce atmospheric-gas into the aquarium water. The surface-area of the bubbles at any given moment could be compared to the surface area of the tank, and equations could be made to compare the differences between different pumps/filters in terms of introduced oxygen.
                                                                                                                        I did'nt realize that the eruption of bubbles at the surface caused a water movement/circulation that allowed an interface between the water and atmosphere. But I would'nt neglect to include the bubbles-under-pressure as an element in providing atmospheric-gas into the water, as I hope to remember your inclusion of circulation caused by erupting bubbles as an air/water exchange.
                                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                        > air stones don't actually work by pumping air into the water, the way
                                                                                                                        > they work is that they disrupt the surface and allow for oxygen
                                                                                                                        > exchange. they are also an attractive addition to aquariums. people who
                                                                                                                        > use any kind of wet/dry filter, such as a biowheel, generally don't
                                                                                                                        > need to use an air stone as well. if you want to heavily stock a tank,
                                                                                                                        > then an air stone can be a helpful addition and it's always a good idea
                                                                                                                        > to keep one on hand because certain water treatments and medications
                                                                                                                        > can drastically reduce water's oxygen content and an air stone can help
                                                                                                                        > to dissipate these chemicals...
                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                        > On Apr 4, 2004, at 11:18 PM, loreleicosner wrote:
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > > I want to make sure I'm understanding what you said correctly... what
                                                                                                                        > > I really need to pay attention to is a good filter that will
                                                                                                                        > > circulate the water (produce the turnover you mentioned), and the
                                                                                                                        > > water will be oxygenated enough?� Do I need air stones at all, then?�

                                                                                                                        > > I do plan to have quite a few plants in the aquarium, and I know they
                                                                                                                        > > will produce oxygen.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > One reason I was wondering about the air stones is because I got to
                                                                                                                        > > thinking that in the wild, fish do not have air stones bubbling every
                                                                                                                        > > few feet, but streams and ponds that have a lot of plants and a lot
                                                                                                                        > > of water circulation seem to do just fine.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > I really like all the patient answers I'm getting from this group.�
                                                                                                                        > > I've joined groups in the past where more experienced members talk
                                                                                                                        > > down to those who don't know as much, but I haven't experienced that
                                                                                                                        > > here, and it really makes me glad that I joined.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > God bless you.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Sincerely,
                                                                                                                        > > Lorelei
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                        > > j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                        > > >��� I have a book that states; '..airstones bring in negligible
                                                                                                                        > > amounts of oxygen into the water." What oxygenates water in the same
                                                                                                                        > > principle as airstones (air pressure forcing air onto and into the

                                                                                                                        > > waters' ) generally, in an aquarium, is the circulation brought about
                                                                                                                        > > by filtration, that causes water-motion allowing the constant
                                                                                                                        > > interface between atmospheric-pressure and the tank water. What I've
                                                                                                                        > > read relatively consistantly is that your filtration/pumps should
                                                                                                                        > > produce a 5 or 6 fold turnover of tank-water-volume-per-hour.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                        > > <yhoo0404_a_300250A.gif>
                                                                                                                        > > <l.gif>
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                        > > �
                                                                                                                        > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                        > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                        > > �
                                                                                                                        > > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                        > > Service.
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                        > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                        > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                        > religion....
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1620 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                        Subject: Google Search water volume turnover in aquaria
                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                          Lorelei,
                                                                                                                             This could help refine your quest for oxygenation/filtration.
                                                                                                                                                                      Joe P.

                                                                                                                           http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=water+volume+turnover+in+aquaria&spell=1
                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1621 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                          Subject: Aquarium filtration/air-exchange
                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                            Lorelei,
                                                                                                                                Another source re: info on water/air exchange interests.
                                                                                                                                                       Joe P.

                                                                                                                             http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/aquariumfiltration.shtml
                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1622 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                            Subject: FilterBasics
                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                              Lorelei,
                                                                                                                                 This goes over water-volume turnover a bit.
                                                                                                                                                              Joe P.

                                                                                                                               http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/filterbasics4.shtml
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1623 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                              Subject: Thank you, thank you, thank you :)
                                                                                                                              You are all so helpful. I may actually plant fewer plants than I
                                                                                                                              originally planned... all my experience with plants and I forgot that
                                                                                                                              they will grow and I'll have to take care of the 'babies', lol. My
                                                                                                                              fish would be crowded out.

                                                                                                                              I'm at work now, but I'll check out the links this afternoon. I'm
                                                                                                                              thinking now that I'll get a bio-wheel filter and combine that with
                                                                                                                              the airstones.

                                                                                                                              God bless you.
                                                                                                                              Sincerely,
                                                                                                                              Lorelei
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1624 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
                                                                                                                              Here is the information I found looking at the back of my package of "Fungus Clear". (although I must admit, there wasn't a whole lot of information provided to help us help you) ... first thing I thought of when you said "clamped fins" was fungus. I don't think the string of feces has anything to do with your fish loss ... fish, like any other animal, defecate. It's just part of nature.
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              CLAMPED FINS Fins held close to body, especially in livebearing fish.
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              You can drop in a tablet of "Fungus Clear" per ten U.S. gallons of water and that should help if that is what it is. BUT before you do that, take the carbon out of the filter.
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              I've had no problems with Fungus Clear, it's worked on my past problems with my black mollies getting fungus. After I started adding aquarium salt to my tank, I've had no further problems with fungus. So you might want to give that a shot as well. I use 1 tablespoon + 1 teaspoon for each 5 U.S. gallons water ... the package directions say 1 tablespoon, but I use a little more because my fish are mollies, not guppies. You're probably best just following package directions if you go this route.
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              I don't know anything about snails, though, so you might want to go to www.junglelabs.com before dropping Fungus Clear in to clear up any questions.
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              Good luck!

                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                              Date: 04/04/04 23:31:48
                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Bacteria Infection?
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              In the past two weeks I have lost 2/3 of my adult guppies. Many
                                                                                                                              babies have died as well. The fish have clamped fins, some have a
                                                                                                                              string of feces. I don't know if this helps but my pond snails have
                                                                                                                              all turned opaque and many have died. Many are not eating and have
                                                                                                                              lost some color. I was wondering if anyone out there could help me
                                                                                                                              with a diagnosis (bacteria hopefully not TB) and a possible cure.
                                                                                                                              My water parameters are all good.
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1625 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
                                                                                                                              I've read that long (not normally long) fecal-casts can be a sign of bacterial/viral infection, and as for pond-snails, with the exception of a few people on the list have never heard anything good about pond-snails in the aquarium, They tend to be prolific, carry parasites, and devour aquarium plants. You used the word 'MY' referring to YOUR pond snails, so I suppose you feel about them as you would any other tank creature. They're meant to be in their natural environment, and some discerning aquarium-plant growers promote the fact that their plants are not grown in pond-plant-farms, partially or wholly because pond snails can wreak havoc in an aquarium. If you clean your tank appropriately, and as you wrote, your chemical-tank-parameters are OK, then I don't know what to say, unless you have a temperature problem, or a newly introduced cause? When I let my tank get too high PH-wise, it tends to destroy my pond-snail population. I read about high-PH and pond snails, and when I noticed my pond-snail pop. disappeared, I assumed, after checking my PH, that was the reason.
                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                              > In the past two weeks I have lost 2/3 of my adult guppies. Many
                                                                                                                              > babies have died as well. The fish have clamped fins, some have a
                                                                                                                              > string of feces. I don't know if this helps but my pond snails have
                                                                                                                              > all turned opaque and many have died. Many are not eating and have
                                                                                                                              > lost some color. I was wondering if anyone out there could help me
                                                                                                                              > with a diagnosis (bacteria hopefully not TB) and a possible cure.
                                                                                                                              > My water parameters are all good.
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1626 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
                                                                                                                              Long fecal casts can be a sign of infection, and distinguishing between normal appearing casts and the abnormal requires something of a connection to other factors. If the whole population has other symptoms, as well as an unprecedented evidence of long fecl-casts, there could be a connection. If youi,ve had a personal problem with bowel movement, you could also sympathise with a fish having the same problem, be it because of diet, infection or something else.
                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1627 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                              Subject: Bacterial infection? Dying Guppies, pale pond-snails
                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                H'lo,
                                                                                                                                   Here's a link to Edmund Scientific, regarding sufficient magnification to regard little creatures possibly going about their business on the other side of the aquarium glass, mostly at or just below gravel-level.
                                                                                                                                   What I'd buy, if I did'nt already have an assortment of salvaged binocular/telescope lenses;
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 Machinists lens @ $24.95,  7x10 & 20x Hastings Triplet @ $38.95,  4x6x10 Folding @ $4.95 and Adjustable 8x @ $5.95.
                                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                                                 http://scientificsonline.com/search.asp?t=ss&ss=magnifiers&x=5&y=17
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1628 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Bacteria Infection?
                                                                                                                                Just for the experience, if you have a good magnifying-glass, or magnifying-lenses salvaged from a telescope or binoculars, focus it to the inside of your tank-glass, around the level of the gravel, and below, and above particularly (particularly, all the aforementioned), and anywhere else for that matter, and look to see if you can see worms or insect-like critters. I found that regular hand-held 2/3/4 inch etc. magnifying glasses are'nt enough to really get a good look at those fellas. Edmund Scientific has magnifiers, that fold/pivot into one another to adapt to higher mag/close-up needs. With my eyesight, and maybe everyone else's, you must get really one-eyed-squinting close for a good view.
                                                                                                                                I'll look at Edmunds' site, and try to send a link.
                                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                > In the past two weeks I have lost 2/3 of my adult guppies. Many
                                                                                                                                > babies have died as well. The fish have clamped fins, some have a
                                                                                                                                > string of feces. I don't know if this helps but my pond snails have
                                                                                                                                > all turned opaque and many have died. Many are not eating and have
                                                                                                                                > lost some color. I was wondering if anyone out there could help me
                                                                                                                                > with a diagnosis (bacteria hopefully not TB) and a possible cure.
                                                                                                                                > My water parameters are all good.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >

                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1629 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Aquarium filtration/air-exchange
                                                                                                                                Dear Joe,

                                                                                                                                Thank you so much for this link, especially. I'm reading about
                                                                                                                                plants as filters, which I already had some idea of... they do sell
                                                                                                                                fish manure as garden fertilizer, after all, lol. I think I'll use a
                                                                                                                                really large bio-wheel, perhaps one made for a 200 gallon tank, and a
                                                                                                                                mechanical medium of some kind, and experiment from there. But I
                                                                                                                                want the plants thriving for a while before I add more than a couple
                                                                                                                                of algae eaters so that my little 'eco-system' is pretty stable. The
                                                                                                                                more I think about it, I think I may have as few as half a dozen
                                                                                                                                fish, unless of course, they are like mollies or danios... fish that
                                                                                                                                like larger communities. After all, the more space each fish has,
                                                                                                                                the better. Most of what I'm writing is speculation, of course.
                                                                                                                                I've already changed my mind as to what I want to do a couple of
                                                                                                                                times, and I only joined the list a couple of days ago, lol. But I'm
                                                                                                                                learning. As long as the health of the tank stays a priority, I know
                                                                                                                                I'm headed in the right direction, though.

                                                                                                                                God bless you.
                                                                                                                                Sincerely,
                                                                                                                                Lorelei

                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                <j.pascavage@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > Lorelei,
                                                                                                                                > Another source re: info on water/air exchange interests.
                                                                                                                                > Joe P.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/aquariumfiltration.shtml
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1630 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                                Where about in Upstate New York? Anywhere near Buffalo? If so, come to
                                                                                                                                the Honey Hill Pet Center at the Eastern Hills Mall in Wiliamsville.
                                                                                                                                I've got tons of experience and might be able to help you save some
                                                                                                                                money and fish. You can call at 716/632-6570 and ask for Rob. If not,
                                                                                                                                cool. Everyone here likes to help out, good luck!

                                                                                                                                "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1631 From: loreleicosner Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                                I'm in Rochester, which is near Buffalo, but unfortunately, I don't
                                                                                                                                drive, so unless I want to ride Greyhound (and they don't take kindly
                                                                                                                                to pets of *any* kind), I might as well be across the country.

                                                                                                                                I've found some nice prices at www.pets-warehouse.com. Does your
                                                                                                                                shop have an online store? If so, I could purchase that way. Do you
                                                                                                                                know of any good stores in Rochester that you could recommend? I
                                                                                                                                think PetsMart and Petco are a little pricey compared to the pets
                                                                                                                                warehouse site.

                                                                                                                                God bless you.
                                                                                                                                Sincerely,
                                                                                                                                Lorelei

                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                > Where about in Upstate New York? Anywhere near Buffalo? If so,
                                                                                                                                come to
                                                                                                                                > the Honey Hill Pet Center at the Eastern Hills Mall in Wiliamsville.
                                                                                                                                > I've got tons of experience and might be able to help you save some
                                                                                                                                > money and fish. You can call at 716/632-6570 and ask for Rob. If
                                                                                                                                not,
                                                                                                                                > cool. Everyone here likes to help out, good luck!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1632 From: *~* Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: my spot treating was #$%^&*
                                                                                                                                I have heard from other fish owners about "spot treating" a fish for someth=
                                                                                                                                ing none of the other guys in the tank had - I can't say what
                                                                                                                                the issue at the time was....though I am almost positive it wasn't an ick t=
                                                                                                                                hing. I do realize that ick is a parasite and it does fall off into
                                                                                                                                the gravel, etc, however, I chose the treatment I did from a point of view =
                                                                                                                                of putting the least amount of chemical inside my tank as a
                                                                                                                                whole.

                                                                                                                                Saturday was cleaning day. I changed 50% of the water...about 40% was done =
                                                                                                                                previous Wed, and 40% previous Saturday. So far so
                                                                                                                                good. The Gourami with what I am now thinking may not have been ick, is doi=
                                                                                                                                ng great. His fin is more useful to him and coming back
                                                                                                                                to normal. I also turned up the heat a few degrees which all the fish seem =
                                                                                                                                to love. Especially the mollies...I think I may have little ones
                                                                                                                                soon LOL

                                                                                                                                In any case, I have learned something here. I won't do this chemical on a f=
                                                                                                                                ish again...diluted or not. I may just throw the bottle and
                                                                                                                                whats left in it in the garbage and bypass this "medicine" altogether in th=
                                                                                                                                e future. A little heat and some marine salt seems to do the
                                                                                                                                trick here.

                                                                                                                                Time to start closing up shop at work...be well all!

                                                                                                                                J


                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c... wro=
                                                                                                                                te:
                                                                                                                                > I remember one of the chemicals used in ick treatment is 'formaldehyde'=
                                                                                                                                , and it's poisonous in concentration. Never having heard of
                                                                                                                                spot-treating 'ick', because 'ick' is an environmental disease, not a topic=
                                                                                                                                ally treated disease, (like spraying for/against mosquitos, not
                                                                                                                                treating the bug that's stinging you, or fleas, not the killing of the bug =
                                                                                                                                that's biting you. You must treat the environment to rid the
                                                                                                                                environment of the ick-spores. I've had fish that had what looked like an i=
                                                                                                                                ck-spot, and treated consequently, and the spot stayed,
                                                                                                                                along with spotless other fishes. I thought it could have been a pustule, b=
                                                                                                                                ut thought also that it would have grown, and it did'nt.
                                                                                                                                Nothing spread. There were worms in the tank periodically, but none of the =
                                                                                                                                other fish had the symptom. What with the cost of vetrinary
                                                                                                                                visits, and the fact that some/most are'nt qualified to treat small fish, t=
                                                                                                                                hat ended that part of fish health concerns for me. If you could
                                                                                                                                find a lab (university, etc) that's interested in diagnosing such things, (=
                                                                                                                                without needing to kill the fish for a sample), you'd be fortunate.
                                                                                                                                A macro'd photo could help.
                                                                                                                                > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > i have a fish that's had a spot that looks like ick for about 2 months =

                                                                                                                                > > now. at first i got worried and treated everyone with aquarisol,
                                                                                                                                > > although no one else had any spots and this fish only had one spot.
                                                                                                                                > > it's 2 months later now and no other fish has ick and that one fish
                                                                                                                                > > still has one tiny little white dot on it's pectoral fin. the fish is
                                                                                                                                > > happy, healthy and breeding, so i've given up trying to get rid of the =

                                                                                                                                > > spot since it seems to be annoying me a lot more than it's annoying the=

                                                                                                                                > > fish. perhaps your fish has something similar? this wouldn't explain
                                                                                                                                > > the shredding, but that could be unrelated, i.e. another fish tearing
                                                                                                                                > > into it. it's very hard to say. if i were you, i'd put that fish in a
                                                                                                                                > > hospital tank and treat everyone for ick, (aquarisol is great because
                                                                                                                                > > it's mild, doesn't dye the water, and is safe for snails and scaleless =

                                                                                                                                > > fish like pictus cats) just to be on the safe side...
                                                                                                                                > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                > > On Apr 3, 2004, at 5:56 PM, j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > >    How did you hear about 'SPOT-TREATMENT'? Never heard of it. The
                                                                                                                                > > > Ick-Spore, if I remember correctly is something resident in the tank,=

                                                                                                                                > > > and if the fish you treated did;nt recently bring it in , if it IS, i=
                                                                                                                                n
                                                                                                                                > > > fact,  ick, it's still in the tank and the whole tank should probably=

                                                                                                                                > > > be treated. What little I remember about 'ick' treatment chemistry is=

                                                                                                                                > > > that it/they're very toxic chemicals, and I can't imagine anything
                                                                                                                                > > > I've read diluting the stuff to treat like e merchurochrome swab. As =
                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                > > > matter of fact, just from reasoning the properties of the ick paasite=
                                                                                                                                ,
                                                                                                                                > > > a manufacturer or retailer recommending spot treatment seems
                                                                                                                                > > > contraindicated.
                                                                                                                                > > >                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                > > > > dang it darn it foooooo!
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > In my 38gal where I keep 1 plec, 4 gourami, 1 apple snail, 2
                                                                                                                                > > > > mollies, I spot treated one of the gourami for what looked like it=

                                                                                                                                > > > > might be a spot of ick on it's caudal fin...now the fin looks
                                                                                                                                > > > > shredded!
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > > > If anyone has experience in this area, I'd appreciate feedback. On=

                                                                                                                                > > > > the good side, the "ick" looks like it it fading. I've turned the
                                                                                                                                > > > > heat up a tiny bit, but now her fin is a bit frayed. Did I fudge u=
                                                                                                                                p?
                                                                                                                                > > > > I netted her out of the tank and spot treated it with diluted ick
                                                                                                                                > > > > cure. Now I'm totally freakin out because I dont want to risk the
                                                                                                                                > > > > rest of the tank, but, at this time I don't have a tank available =
                                                                                                                                to
                                                                                                                                > > > > make it a hospital tank. <sigh>
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > It's water change day so I am hoping this will help some more.
                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > > ciao for now ~
                                                                                                                                > > > > J
                                                                                                                                > > > >
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                                                                                                                                > > > > 
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1633 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/5/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                Hi Guys.

                                                                                                                                I recently had an ick problem that cleared up with salt and heat quite
                                                                                                                                nicely. However I'm having another issues with one of my 5
                                                                                                                                head-and-tail-light tetras.

                                                                                                                                On the first day I had him (about 9 days ago) after being in the bag for
                                                                                                                                about an hour he started swimming erratically. I thought it might have been
                                                                                                                                shock and had him into the tank and more comfortable as soon as I could
                                                                                                                                (considering temperature and ph acclimatisation etc).

                                                                                                                                The swimming issues went away. As of yesterday the same fish is again having
                                                                                                                                swimming issues. Swimming is erratic and he seems to be going around and
                                                                                                                                around in anticlockwise circles (looking down his back to the front)
                                                                                                                                laterally.

                                                                                                                                I wonder if it's a swim bladder issue and I'm planning on segregating him
                                                                                                                                and feeding some peas to try and clear things up.

                                                                                                                                However I did take a quite 20 second video clip of his swimming behaviour
                                                                                                                                and I've stuck it up on a website. If anyone would like to have a look and
                                                                                                                                let me know what it looks like to them, I'd very much appreciate it.

                                                                                                                                Poor little guy must be very dizzy.
                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.MOV

                                                                                                                                It's 700k or so.

                                                                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                                                                Tim
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1634 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sick Fish Quick update. The fish isn’t rapidly spinning anymore, but it’s pretty obvious he’s still having issues.
                                                                                                                                I’ve put some peas in tonight and all the fish have stuffed it into themselves. (and I mean stuffed, seeing a little tetra eating 1/2 a pea and watching it bulge through her throat  is pretty impressive)  All the fish, that is, except for my spinner.

                                                                                                                                I think he’ll have to be separated, but I don’t think I have anything to separate him in to at this stage. I’ll have to see what I can do, but the tank is so small that I’d be surprised if any of the little breeders or anything fit... perhaps I should move him to a jar or something for feeding?

                                                                                                                                I also think there may be some tiny ick forming – which I was hoping was gone. I’ve ordered some quinine which should show up tomorrow if I’m lucky (along with lots of other things).

                                                                                                                                I’m getting some brown diatom type algae on leaves, rubs off easily. I’m also getting some 1/2 cm green hair algae growth on leaves towards the top of the tank.  It didn’t waste it’s time growing!

                                                                                                                                Ammonia still tests zero.

                                                                                                                                I’ve had this tank for 10 days and not once have I seen any sign of ammonia.

                                                                                                                                I’ve just tested nitrites as well, and that’s completely clear.

                                                                                                                                I’m guessing the plants are sucking up the nutrients too quickly I may need to put some more fish in. I was thinking some small live bearers (not guppies but something a bit more unusual and smallerish) and some kind of algae eating fish, Oto or SAE if I can find some, also maybe some small corys – if I can find the right species :-) I wouldn’t mind something that would eat the fish food that makes it’s way to the bottom.

                                                                                                                                I’m just about to put some riccia grids in, as per http://www.nature-aquarium.com/riccia.htm and probably some small co2 injection so I’m expecting to have even more plants sucking those N-compounds up.

                                                                                                                                hmmn, much to think about.
                                                                                                                                Cheers,
                                                                                                                                Tim



                                                                                                                                On 6/4/04 4:02 PM, "Tim Walker" <twalker@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                Hi Guys.

                                                                                                                                I recently had an ick problem that cleared up with salt and heat quite
                                                                                                                                nicely. However I'm having another issues with one of my 5
                                                                                                                                head-and-tail-light tetras.

                                                                                                                                On the first day I had him (about 9 days ago) after being in the bag for
                                                                                                                                about an hour he started swimming erratically. I thought it might have been
                                                                                                                                shock and had him into the tank and more comfortable as soon as I could
                                                                                                                                (considering temperature and ph acclimatisation etc).

                                                                                                                                The swimming issues went away. As of yesterday the same fish is again having
                                                                                                                                swimming issues. Swimming is erratic and he seems to be going around and
                                                                                                                                around in anticlockwise circles (looking down his back to the front)
                                                                                                                                laterally.

                                                                                                                                I wonder if it's a swim bladder issue and I'm planning on segregating him
                                                                                                                                and feeding some peas to try and clear things up.

                                                                                                                                However I did take a quite 20 second video clip of his swimming behaviour
                                                                                                                                and I've stuck it up on a website. If anyone would like to have a look and
                                                                                                                                let me know what it looks like to them, I'd very much appreciate it.

                                                                                                                                Poor little guy must be very dizzy.
                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.MOV

                                                                                                                                It's 700k or so.

                                                                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                                                                Tim


                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1635 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sick Fish

                                                                                                                                Tim,

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Put the fish in a floating breeding trap. I am sure it will fit in a small tank. It may start eating something there.

                                                                                                                                No ammonia, no nitrite? And Algae? Not a very good situation. Though plants are consuming ammonia at a good rate, but the tank has to cycle. As I said, you can start with a little over feeding to help it. Overstocking at this stage could lead to some issues.. esp algae blooms.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                With regards to Nature aquarium website, Jason was the person who I had been trying to send me Riccia, but I could not find a proper payment method to send him the money.. my fault. Keep in mind that growing Riccia submerged the way it is shown in the website is not an easy task. Riccia will tend to float and the denser it gets, the difficult it becomes to hold it down. But that is only if it grows fast enough to become dense. It will need a lot.. and I mean a lot of light to grow that way and a lot of CO2.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                As for algae, SAE are very good in eating hair algae and brush algae types. So are Amano shrimps(but I have something against them). Ancistrus species are brilliant in containing dust and brown dust algae. But if these algae are not available, they may have a go on your plants.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: 06 April 2004 11:20
                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sick Fish

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Quick update. The fish isn’t rapidly spinning anymore, but it’s pretty obvious he’s still having issues.
                                                                                                                                I’ve put some peas in tonight and all the fish have stuffed it into themselves. (and I mean stuffed, seeing a little tetra eating 1/2 a pea and watching it bulge through her throat  is pretty impressive)  All the fish, that is, except for my spinner.

                                                                                                                                I think he’ll have to be separated, but I don’t think I have anything to separate him in to at this stage. I’ll have to see what I can do, but the tank is so small that I’d be surprised if any of the little breeders or anything fit... perhaps I should move him to a jar or something for feeding?

                                                                                                                                I also think there may be some tiny ick forming – which I was hoping was gone. I’ve ordered some quinine which should show up tomorrow if I’m lucky (along with lots of other things).

                                                                                                                                I’m getting some brown diatom type algae on leaves, rubs off easily. I’m also getting some 1/2 cm green hair algae growth on leaves towards the top of the tank.  It didn’t waste it’s time growing!

                                                                                                                                Ammonia still tests zero.

                                                                                                                                I’ve had this tank for 10 days and not once have I seen any sign of ammonia.

                                                                                                                                I’ve just tested nitrites as well, and that’s completely clear.

                                                                                                                                I’m guessing the plants are sucking up the nutrients too quickly I may need to put some more fish in. I was thinking some small live bearers (not guppies but something a bit more unusual and smallerish) and some kind of algae eating fish, Oto or SAE if I can find some, also maybe some small corys – if I can find the right species :-) I wouldn’t mind something that would eat the fish food that makes it’s way to the bottom.

                                                                                                                                I’m just about to put some riccia grids in, as per http://www.nature-aquarium.com/riccia.htm and probably some small co2 injection so I’m expecting to have even more plants sucking those N-compounds up.

                                                                                                                                hmmn, much to think about.
                                                                                                                                Cheers,
                                                                                                                                Tim



                                                                                                                                On 6/4/04 4:02 PM , "Tim Walker" <twalker@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                Hi Guys.

                                                                                                                                I recently had an ick problem that cleared up with salt and heat quite
                                                                                                                                nicely. However I'm having another issues with one of my 5
                                                                                                                                head-and-tail-light tetras.

                                                                                                                                On the first day I had him (about 9 days ago) after being in the bag for
                                                                                                                                about an hour he started swimming erratically. I thought it might have been
                                                                                                                                shock and had him into the tank and more comfortable as soon as I could
                                                                                                                                (considering temperature and ph acclimatisation etc).

                                                                                                                                The swimming issues went away. As of yesterday the same fish is again having
                                                                                                                                swimming issues. Swimming is erratic and he seems to be going around and
                                                                                                                                around in anticlockwise circles (looking down his back to the front)
                                                                                                                                laterally.

                                                                                                                                I wonder if it's a swim bladder issue and I'm planning on segregating him
                                                                                                                                and feeding some peas to try and clear things up.

                                                                                                                                However I did take a quite 20 second video clip of his swimming behaviour
                                                                                                                                and I've stuck it up on a website. If anyone would like to have a look and
                                                                                                                                let me know what it looks like to them, I'd very much appreciate it.

                                                                                                                                Poor little guy must be very dizzy.
                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.MOV

                                                                                                                                It's 700k or so.

                                                                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                                                                Tim

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1636 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sick Fish On 6/4/04 8:39 PM, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                Tim,
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Put the fish in a floating breeding trap. I am sure it will fit in a small tank. It may start eating something there.

                                                                                                                                Ok

                                                                                                                                No ammonia, no nitrite? And Algae? Not a very good situation. Though plants are consuming ammonia at a good rate, but the tank has to cycle. As I said, you can start with a little over feeding to help it. Overstocking at this stage could lead to some issues.. esp algae blooms.

                                                                                                                                Okay, so no new fish then – but more over feeding. I am over feeding at the moment, but geez it’s hard :-)

                                                                                                                                With regards to Nature aquarium website, Jason was the person who I had been trying to send me Riccia, but I could not find a proper payment method to send him the money.. my fault. Keep in mind that growing Riccia submerged the way it is shown in the website is not an easy task. Riccia will tend to float and the denser it gets, the difficult it becomes to hold it down. But that is only if it grows fast enough to become dense. It will need a lot.. and I mean a lot of light to grow that way and a lot of CO2.

                                                                                                                                Yep I don’t expect quite his results. It’s just a bit of an experiment with the riccia – cost me all of $5 US. So I’ll see how it goes. I have 2 watts per gallon at the moment T5’s on a 240volt system. From the colour I’d imagine they are possibly 5500k or so – definitely a yellow look to the tank. I’ve ordered a CO2 tester and I’m going to play with injecting some DIY co2. Reduce the PH down to 7 with any luck.

                                                                                                                                As for algae, SAE are very good in eating hair algae and brush algae types. So are Amano shrimps(but I have something against them). Ancistrus species are brilliant in containing dust and brown dust algae. But if these algae are not available, they may have a go on your plants.


                                                                                                                                I’m not sure I can get Amano Shrimps in Australia.  Any of the LFS’s I’ve spoken to seem to have no idea what I’m talking about. I actually would put some in for some invertebrate life – but I can’t seem to get any. I suspect the brown algae is just new tank type stuff and will clear up – hopefully. I’ve seen it happen before. The green algae is growing on the same leaf so I don’t really think it’s a light issue or anything.  So I’ll see if I can’t get my hands on an SAE.

                                                                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                                                                Tim
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1637 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sick Fish

                                                                                                                                Put the fish in a floating breeding trap. I am sure it will fit in a small tank. It may start eating something there.

                                                                                                                                Ok


                                                                                                                                No ammonia, no nitrite? And Algae? Not a very good situation. Though plants are consuming ammonia at a good rate, but the tank has to cycle. As I said, you can start with a little over feeding to help it. Overstocking at this stage could lead to some issues.. esp algae blooms.

                                                                                                                                Okay, so no new fish then – but more over feeding. I am over feeding at the moment, but geez it’s hard :-)

                                                                                                                                There is also a possibility that your tank has already cycled. This would have happened if you had used a filter media from another running tank. Did anything like this happen? If you are over feeding and getting algae, then there could be 2 things: there is some nutrient deficiency in the tank, or there are surplus other nutrients. Just do a little work on this to see what could be the problem. Also, did you do a Nitrate test? If your Nitrates in the tank are sufficiently higher then tap water, your tank has most probably cycled.


                                                                                                                                With regards to Nature aquarium website, Jason was the person who I had been trying to send me Riccia, but I could not find a proper payment method to send him the money.. my fault. Keep in mind that growing Riccia submerged the way it is shown in the website is not an easy task. Riccia will tend to float and the denser it gets, the difficult it becomes to hold it down. But that is only if it grows fast enough to become dense. It will need a lot.. and I mean a lot of light to grow that way and a lot of CO2.

                                                                                                                                Yep I don’t expect quite his results. It’s just a bit of an experiment with the riccia – cost me all of $5 US. So I’ll see how it goes. I have 2 watts per gallon at the moment T5’s on a 240volt system. From the colour I’d imagine they are possibly 5500k or so – definitely a yellow look to the tank. I’ve ordered a CO2 tester and I’m going to play with injecting some DIY co2. Reduce the PH down to 7 with any luck.

                                                                                                                                With a high PH, the amount of CO2 addition to the tank should be high. Little CO2 may not have the effect you want to and moreover, you don’t really want to add CO2 till your tank is not cycled.  I don’t remember the size of your tank, but I gather it is a small tank.  A small tank is much more succeptable to changes then a large one, hence with CO2, you cannot over stock and CO2 has to run all the time, else you will have too much PH fluctuations between day and night.


                                                                                                                                As for algae, SAE are very good in eating hair algae and brush algae types. So are Amano shrimps(but I have something against them). Ancistrus species are brilliant in containing dust and brown dust algae. But if these algae are not available, they may have a go on your plants.

                                                                                                                                I’m not sure I can get Amano Shrimps in Australia .  Any of the LFS’s I’ve spoken to seem to have no idea what I’m talking about. I actually would put some in for some invertebrate life – but I can’t seem to get any. I suspect the brown algae is just new tank type stuff and will clear up – hopefully. I’ve seen it happen before. The green algae is growing on the same leaf so I don’t really think it’s a light issue or anything.  So I’ll see if I can’t get my hands on an SAE .
                                                                                                                                Try telling them Cardinia shrimp or something similar. Amano shrimp is actually Cardinia japonica but is not an essential element in the tank. I have had bad experience with it so I wont have them even for free.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1638 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were feeding
                                                                                                                                their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some for my
                                                                                                                                fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this morning I
                                                                                                                                woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ? Sherrie
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1639 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                Yepp. Especially the bottom dwellers love it. Plecs, loaches, red tailed
                                                                                                                                shark etc. even guppies and other live bearers.


                                                                                                                                >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@...]
                                                                                                                                >Sent: 06 April 2004 21:27
                                                                                                                                >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were feeding
                                                                                                                                >their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some for my
                                                                                                                                >fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this morning I
                                                                                                                                >woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                >anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                >often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ? Sherrie
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1640 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                H'lo,
                                                                                                                                When I saw something like; ".......He was in the bag for an hour", I thought 'oxygen-deprivation = nerve/brain-damage."
                                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                > Hi Guys.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I recently had an ick problem that cleared up with salt and heat quite
                                                                                                                                > nicely. However I'm having another issues with one of my 5
                                                                                                                                > head-and-tail-light tetras.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > On the first day I had him (about 9 days ago) after being in the bag for
                                                                                                                                > about an hour he started swimming erratically. I thought it might have been
                                                                                                                                > shock and had him into the tank and more comfortable as soon as I could
                                                                                                                                > (considering temperature and ph acclimatisation etc).
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > The swimming issues went away. As of yesterday the same fish is again having
                                                                                                                                > swimming issues. Swimming is erratic and he seems to be going around and
                                                                                                                                > around in anticlockwise circles (looking down his back to the front)
                                                                                                                                > laterally.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I wonder if it's a swim bladder issue and I'm planning on segregating him
                                                                                                                                > and feeding some peas to try and clear things up.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > However I did take a quite 20 second video clip of his swimming behaviour
                                                                                                                                > and I've stuck it up on a website. If anyone would like to have a look and

                                                                                                                                > let me know what it looks like to them, I'd very much appreciate it.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Poor little guy must be very dizzy.
                                                                                                                                > http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.MOV
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > It's 700k or so.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Thanks
                                                                                                                                > Tim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1641 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                i don't know about brain damage from being in a bag for an hour since
                                                                                                                                you can ship fish overnight and they're fine after longer than 24 hours
                                                                                                                                in a bag...
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:30 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                >    H'lo,
                                                                                                                                >      When I saw something like;   ".......He was in the bag for an
                                                                                                                                > hour", I thought 'oxygen-deprivation = nerve/brain-damage."
                                                                                                                                >                                 Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                > > Hi Guys.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > I recently had an ick problem that cleared up with salt and heat
                                                                                                                                > quite
                                                                                                                                > > nicely. However I'm having another issues with one of my 5
                                                                                                                                > > head-and-tail-light tetras.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > On the first day I had him (about 9 days ago) after being in the
                                                                                                                                > bag for
                                                                                                                                > > about an hour he started swimming erratically. I thought it might
                                                                                                                                > have been
                                                                                                                                > > shock and had him into the tank and more comfortable as soon as I
                                                                                                                                > could
                                                                                                                                > > (considering temperature and ph acclimatisation etc).
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > The swimming issues went away. As of yesterday the same fish is
                                                                                                                                > again having
                                                                                                                                > > swimming issues. Swimming is erratic and he seems to be going
                                                                                                                                > around and
                                                                                                                                > > around in anticlockwise circles (looking down his back to the front)
                                                                                                                                > > laterally.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > I wonder if it's a swim bladder issue and I'm planning on
                                                                                                                                > segregating him
                                                                                                                                > > and feeding some peas to try and clear things up.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > However I did take a quite 20 second video clip of his swimming
                                                                                                                                > behaviour
                                                                                                                                > > and I've stuck it up on a website. If anyone would like to have a
                                                                                                                                > look and
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > let me know what it looks like to them, I'd very much appreciate it.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Poor little guy must be very dizzy.
                                                                                                                                > > http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.MOV
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > It's 700k or so.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Thanks
                                                                                                                                > > Tim
                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1642 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/6/2004 4:26:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KPribble@... writes:

                                                                                                                                > es
                                                                                                                                > anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                > often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?
                                                                                                                                > Sherrie


                                                                                                                                I feed my plecos zucchini. They ravage it, I think they prefer it to the cucumber.

                                                                                                                                Mike
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1643 From: Sarah Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                Yep ours have cucumber, potatoe, garden peas, We usually only feed them this once a week ish.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Kind Regards
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Date: 06/04/2004 21:29:42
                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were feeding
                                                                                                                                their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some for my
                                                                                                                                fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this morning I
                                                                                                                                woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?   Sherrie
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1644 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                I feed mine zucchini once a week. Every Thursday, I put a slice of zucchini
                                                                                                                                in the veggie clip. What we did was buy a zucchini, clean it and slice it,
                                                                                                                                and then put it in a freezer bag and freeze it. (the people in my family can
                                                                                                                                t stand zucchini) Not only does the pleco love it, but the mollies and
                                                                                                                                platys love it too. It's usually completely eaten by Friday morning. I've
                                                                                                                                never heard of cucumbers, but then I haven't been in this hobby for very
                                                                                                                                long, just a few months.

                                                                                                                                Erin

                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                In a message dated 4/6/2004 4:26:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                KPribble@... writes:

                                                                                                                                > es
                                                                                                                                > anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                > often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?
                                                                                                                                > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1645 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                I really don't know anything about it, but I've always been anxious about getting the creature out of the bag ASAP, after opening, and the water/temp exchange. Aquatronics makes products that claim to add oxygen to needful fishs' environments. One is 'Intensive-Care', the other, Oxygenex'. I would'nt be surprised if proprietors used an additive to shipped-fish containers.
                                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                > i don't know about brain damage from being in a bag for an hour since
                                                                                                                                > you can ship fish overnight and they're fine after longer than 24 hours
                                                                                                                                > in a bag...
                                                                                                                                > amalthea
                                                                                                                                > On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:30 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > �� H'lo,
                                                                                                                                > > ���� When I saw something like;�� ".......He was in the bag for an
                                                                                                                                > > hour", I thought 'oxygen-deprivation = nerve/brain-damage."
                                                                                                                                > > ������������������������������� Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                > > > Hi Guys.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > I recently had an ick problem that cleared up with salt and heat
                                                                                                                                > > quite
                                                                                                                                > > > nicely. However I'm having another issues with one of my 5
                                                                                                                                > > > head-and-tail-light tetras.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > On the first day I had him (about 9 days ago) after being in the
                                                                                                                                > > bag for
                                                                                                                                > > > about an hour he started swimming erratically. I thought it might
                                                                                                                                > > have been
                                                                                                                                > > > shock and had him into the tank and more comfortable as soon as I
                                                                                                                                > > could
                                                                                                                                > > > (considering temperature and ph acclimatisation etc).
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > The swimming issues went away. As of yesterday the same fish is

                                                                                                                                > > again having
                                                                                                                                > > > swimming issues. Swimming is erratic and he seems to be going
                                                                                                                                > > around and
                                                                                                                                > > > around in anticlockwise circles (looking down his back to the front)
                                                                                                                                > > > laterally.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > I wonder if it's a swim bladder issue and I'm planning on
                                                                                                                                > > segregating him
                                                                                                                                > > > and feeding some peas to try and clear things up.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > However I did take a quite 20 second video clip of his swimming
                                                                                                                                > > behaviour
                                                                                                                                > > > and I've stuck it up on a website. If anyone would like to have a
                                                                                                                                > > look and
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > > let me know what it looks like to them, I'd very much appreciate it.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Poor little guy must be very dizzy.
                                                                                                                                > > > http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.MOV
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > It's 700k or so.
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > > Thanks
                                                                                                                                > > > Tim
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                > > >�
                                                                                                                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                > > �

                                                                                                                                > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1646 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                i feed zuchinni, broccoli, and kale, and only occasionally cucumbers
                                                                                                                                (there's not a whole lot of nutrients in them) and i give it to them a
                                                                                                                                couple of times a week. my fish and snails LOVE them, especially my
                                                                                                                                plecos...
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:26 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:

                                                                                                                                > I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were feeding
                                                                                                                                > their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some for my
                                                                                                                                > fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this morning I
                                                                                                                                > woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                > anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                > often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?   Sherrie
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1647 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                i've shipped fish and the bests thing to do with fish and bags is to
                                                                                                                                put as little water as possible in the bag. just enough to cover the
                                                                                                                                fish is fine, the rest should be air. if you pack the fish that way,
                                                                                                                                they're just fine and there's more than enough air in the package for
                                                                                                                                it to survive at least 24 hours. there are other factors involved, but
                                                                                                                                so far as oxygen goes, that's it.
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                On Apr 6, 2004, at 9:02 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                > I really don't know anything about it, but I've always been
                                                                                                                                > anxious about getting the creature out of the bag ASAP, after opening,
                                                                                                                                > and the water/temp exchange. Aquatronics makes products that claim to
                                                                                                                                > add oxygen to needful fishs' environments. One is 'Intensive-Care',
                                                                                                                                > the other, Oxygenex'. I would'nt be surprised if proprietors used an
                                                                                                                                > additive to shipped-fish containers.
                                                                                                                                > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                >> i don't know about brain damage from being in a bag for an hour since
                                                                                                                                >> you can ship fish overnight and they're fine after longer than 24
                                                                                                                                >> hours
                                                                                                                                >> in a bag...
                                                                                                                                >> amalthea
                                                                                                                                >> On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:30 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>>    H'lo,
                                                                                                                                >>>      When I saw something like;   ".......He was in the bag for an
                                                                                                                                >>> hour", I thought 'oxygen-deprivation = nerve/brain-damage."
                                                                                                                                >>>                                 Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                >>>> Hi Guys.
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> I recently had an ick problem that cleared up with salt and heat
                                                                                                                                >>> quite
                                                                                                                                >>>> nicely. However I'm having another issues with one of my 5
                                                                                                                                >>>> head-and-tail-light tetras.
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> On the first day I had him (about 9 days ago) after being in the
                                                                                                                                >>> bag for
                                                                                                                                >>>> about an hour he started swimming erratically. I thought it might
                                                                                                                                >>> have been
                                                                                                                                >>>> shock and had him into the tank and more comfortable as soon as I
                                                                                                                                >>> could
                                                                                                                                >>>> (considering temperature and ph acclimatisation etc).
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> The swimming issues went away. As of yesterday the same fish is
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >>> again having
                                                                                                                                >>>> swimming issues. Swimming is erratic and he seems to be going
                                                                                                                                >>> around and
                                                                                                                                >>>> around in anticlockwise circles (looking down his back to the front)
                                                                                                                                >>>> laterally.
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> I wonder if it's a swim bladder issue and I'm planning on
                                                                                                                                >>> segregating him
                                                                                                                                >>>> and feeding some peas to try and clear things up.
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> However I did take a quite 20 second video clip of his swimming
                                                                                                                                >>> behaviour
                                                                                                                                >>>> and I've stuck it up on a website. If anyone would like to have a
                                                                                                                                >>> look and
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> let me know what it looks like to them, I'd very much appreciate it.
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> Poor little guy must be very dizzy.
                                                                                                                                >>>> http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.MOV
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> It's 700k or so.
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> Thanks
                                                                                                                                >>>> Tim
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>  
                                                                                                                                >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>  
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >>>  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                                >>>  
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                                                                                                                                >>> Service.
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                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1648 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                You say you have tested for nitrites - have you tested for nitrates
                                                                                                                                too? That tends to be the baddie!
                                                                                                                                Every so often at the shop we get these "spinners" - mostly tetras, the
                                                                                                                                odd cory and once an angel... they can get really stressed so isolation
                                                                                                                                is a good thing. Ive no idea what causes it, I am guessing its either a
                                                                                                                                bang the fish has received during travel or im wondering if it might be
                                                                                                                                a bad genetic thing.... ive got no real suggestions I am afraid, other
                                                                                                                                than try keep it as stress free as poss.

                                                                                                                                Aileen


                                                                                                                                On 6 Apr 2004, at 11:19, Tim Walker wrote:

                                                                                                                                > Quick update. The fish isn’t rapidly spinning anymore, but it’s pretty
                                                                                                                                > obvious he’s still having issues.
                                                                                                                                > I’ve put some peas in tonight and all the fish have stuffed it into
                                                                                                                                > themselves. (and I mean stuffed, seeing a little tetra eating 1/2 a
                                                                                                                                > pea and watching it bulge through her throat  is pretty impressive)
                                                                                                                                >  All the fish, that is, except for my spinner.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I think he’ll have to be separated, but I don’t think I have anything
                                                                                                                                > to separate him in to at this stage. I’ll have to see what I can do,
                                                                                                                                > but the tank is so small that I’d be surprised if any of the little
                                                                                                                                > breeders or anything fit... perhaps I should move him to a jar or
                                                                                                                                > something for feeding?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I also think there may be some tiny ick forming – which I was hoping
                                                                                                                                > was gone. I’ve ordered some quinine which should show up tomorrow if
                                                                                                                                > I’m lucky (along with lots of other things).
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I’m getting some brown diatom type algae on leaves, rubs off easily.
                                                                                                                                > I’m also getting some 1/2 cm green hair algae growth on leaves towards
                                                                                                                                > the top of the tank.  It didn’t waste it’s time growing!
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Ammonia still tests zero.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I’ve had this tank for 10 days and not once have I seen any sign of
                                                                                                                                > ammonia.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I’ve just tested nitrites as well, and that’s completely clear.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I’m guessing the plants are sucking up the nutrients too quickly I
                                                                                                                                > may need to put some more fish in. I was thinking some small live
                                                                                                                                > bearers (not guppies but something a bit more unusual and smallerish)
                                                                                                                                > and some kind of algae eating fish, Oto or SAE if I can find some,
                                                                                                                                > also maybe some small corys – if I can find the right species :-) I
                                                                                                                                > wouldn’t mind something that would eat the fish food that makes it’s
                                                                                                                                > way to the bottom.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I’m just about to put some riccia grids in, as per
                                                                                                                                > http://www.nature-aquarium.com/riccia.htm and probably some small co2
                                                                                                                                > injection so I’m expecting to have even more plants sucking those
                                                                                                                                > N-compounds up.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > hmmn, much to think about.
                                                                                                                                > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                > Tim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > On 6/4/04 4:02 PM, "Tim Walker" <twalker@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Hi Guys.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I recently had an ick problem that cleared up with salt and heat quite
                                                                                                                                > nicely. However I'm having another issues with one of my 5
                                                                                                                                > head-and-tail-light tetras.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > On the first day I had him (about 9 days ago) after being in the bag
                                                                                                                                > for
                                                                                                                                > about an hour he started swimming erratically. I thought it might
                                                                                                                                > have been
                                                                                                                                > shock and had him into the tank and more comfortable as soon as I
                                                                                                                                > could
                                                                                                                                > (considering temperature and ph acclimatisation etc).
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > The swimming issues went away. As of yesterday the same fish is again
                                                                                                                                > having
                                                                                                                                > swimming issues. Swimming is erratic and he seems to be going around
                                                                                                                                > and
                                                                                                                                > around in anticlockwise circles (looking down his back to the front)
                                                                                                                                > laterally.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > I wonder if it's a swim bladder issue and I'm planning on segregating
                                                                                                                                > him
                                                                                                                                > and feeding some peas to try and clear things up.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > However I did take a quite 20 second video clip of his swimming
                                                                                                                                > behaviour
                                                                                                                                > and I've stuck it up on a website. If anyone would like to have a
                                                                                                                                > look and
                                                                                                                                > let me know what it looks like to them, I'd very much appreciate it.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Poor little guy must be very dizzy.
                                                                                                                                > http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.MOV
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > It's 700k or so.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Thanks
                                                                                                                                > Tim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                > Service.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1649 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                Yep I should mention that I opened the bag when I got home about 15 mins later, and floated the bag in the tank for over an hour before adding 1/2 cups of tank water in over another hour to equalise :-)

                                                                                                                                But he was in the bag itself for well 3 hours I guess.

                                                                                                                                Tim

                                                                                                                                On 7/4/04 6:30 AM, "j.pascavage@..." <j.pascavage@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  H'lo,
                                                                                                                                     When I saw something like;   ".......He was in the bag for an hour", I thought 'oxygen-deprivation = nerve/brain-damage."
                                                                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1650 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                then that wouldn't do it, especially because you poured more water in,
                                                                                                                                thus adding oxygen. it sounds like either an injury, stress, or a
                                                                                                                                genetic defect..
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                On Apr 6, 2004, at 8:08 PM, Tim Walker wrote:

                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Yep I should mention that I opened the bag when I got home about 15
                                                                                                                                > mins later, and floated the bag in the tank for over an hour before
                                                                                                                                > adding 1/2 cups of tank water in over another hour to equalise :-)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > But he was in the bag itself for well 3 hours I guess.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Tim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > On 7/4/04 6:30 AM, "j.pascavage@..."
                                                                                                                                > <j.pascavage@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >   H'lo,
                                                                                                                                >      When I saw something like;   ".......He was in the bag for an
                                                                                                                                > hour", I thought 'oxygen-deprivation = nerve/brain-damage."
                                                                                                                                >                                 Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >  
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                                                                                                                                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >  
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1651 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                H'lo,
                                                                                                                                Searching GOOGLE using the words;

                                                                                                                                shipping fish in plastic bags

                                                                                                                                also eased my mind on the subject of worry about suffocation
                                                                                                                                Joe P.


                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 12:01 AM
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sick Fish


                                                                                                                                then that wouldn't do it, especially because you poured more water in,
                                                                                                                                thus adding oxygen. it sounds like either an injury, stress, or a
                                                                                                                                genetic defect..
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                On Apr 6, 2004, at 8:08 PM, Tim Walker wrote:

                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Yep I should mention that I opened the bag when I got home about 15
                                                                                                                                > mins later, and floated the bag in the tank for over an hour before
                                                                                                                                > adding 1/2 cups of tank water in over another hour to equalise :-)
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > But he was in the bag itself for well 3 hours I guess.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Tim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > On 7/4/04 6:30 AM, "j.pascavage@..."
                                                                                                                                > <j.pascavage@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > H'lo,
                                                                                                                                > When I saw something like; ".......He was in the bag for an
                                                                                                                                > hour", I thought 'oxygen-deprivation = nerve/brain-damage."
                                                                                                                                > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1652 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/6/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                i posted this earlier, but perhaps many didn't see it?
                                                                                                                                http://fins.actwin.com/nanf/month.9703/msg00058.html
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                On Apr 7, 2004, at 12:43 AM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                > H'lo,
                                                                                                                                > Searching GOOGLE using the words;
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > shipping fish in plastic bags
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > also eased my mind on the subject of worry about suffocation
                                                                                                                                > Joe P.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 12:01 AM
                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sick Fish
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > then that wouldn't do it, especially because you poured more water in,
                                                                                                                                > thus adding oxygen. it sounds like either an injury, stress, or a
                                                                                                                                > genetic defect..
                                                                                                                                > amalthea
                                                                                                                                > On Apr 6, 2004, at 8:08 PM, Tim Walker wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> Yep I should mention that I opened the bag when I got home about 15
                                                                                                                                >> mins later, and floated the bag in the tank for over an hour before
                                                                                                                                >> adding 1/2 cups of tank water in over another hour to equalise :-)
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> But he was in the bag itself for well 3 hours I guess.
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> Tim
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> On 7/4/04 6:30 AM, "j.pascavage@..."
                                                                                                                                >> <j.pascavage@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> H'lo,
                                                                                                                                >> When I saw something like; ".......He was in the bag for an
                                                                                                                                >> hour", I thought 'oxygen-deprivation = nerve/brain-damage."
                                                                                                                                >> Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                >> Service.
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                > http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                > web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1653 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                Hi Sherrie,

                                                                                                                                I havent fed any vegetables except for frozen peas to
                                                                                                                                my fishes. But i have read other memebers feeding,

                                                                                                                                lettuce,
                                                                                                                                zuchini,
                                                                                                                                cucumber

                                                                                                                                to their fishes.

                                                                                                                                But make sure that u cean the uneaten portion
                                                                                                                                immediately o/w they might spoil the water
                                                                                                                                conditions...

                                                                                                                                Hope this helps...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                --- freedombell2002 <KPribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                > I went in to a local pet smart that other day and
                                                                                                                                > they were feeding
                                                                                                                                > their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I
                                                                                                                                > bought some for my
                                                                                                                                > fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it.
                                                                                                                                > But this morning I
                                                                                                                                > woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the
                                                                                                                                > whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                > anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or
                                                                                                                                > anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                > often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?
                                                                                                                                > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >


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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1654 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                Sunil, You forgot to add Boiled Rice to it. Once a week I feed them with
                                                                                                                                lettuce, and once a month I feed them cucumber/boiled rice etc. this is
                                                                                                                                apart from the variety I feed them over a weel. Once a week: blood
                                                                                                                                worms/brine shrimp, cichlid pallets, catfish pallets, tetra prima slow
                                                                                                                                sinking pallets, tetra ruby (colour flakes), Tetra min pro (Nutrition
                                                                                                                                flakes), king british (tropical flakes), FD Tubifex etc. strange, my fish
                                                                                                                                get more variety then myself :P

                                                                                                                                Nim


                                                                                                                                >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                >From: sunil kamath [mailto:sunnyvks@...]
                                                                                                                                >Sent: 07 April 2004 08:25
                                                                                                                                >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >I havent fed any vegetables except for frozen peas to
                                                                                                                                >my fishes. But i have read other memebers feeding,
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >lettuce,
                                                                                                                                >zuchini,
                                                                                                                                >cucumber
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >to their fishes.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >But make sure that u cean the uneaten portion
                                                                                                                                >immediately o/w they might spoil the water
                                                                                                                                >conditions...
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >Hope this helps...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                >--- freedombell2002 <KPribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >> I went in to a local pet smart that other day and
                                                                                                                                >> they were feeding
                                                                                                                                >> their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I
                                                                                                                                >> bought some for my
                                                                                                                                >> fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it.
                                                                                                                                >> But this morning I
                                                                                                                                >> woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the
                                                                                                                                >> whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                >> anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or
                                                                                                                                >> anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                >> often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?
                                                                                                                                >> Sherrie
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1655 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Quinine Hydrochloride dosage information?
                                                                                                                                I have a product called "Vertaid"
                                                                                                                                A Quinine Hydrochloride and Malachite Green Solution.

                                                                                                                                "For treatment refer to appropriate reference material"

                                                                                                                                Anyone have any ideas?

                                                                                                                                --

                                                                                                                                I've separated my spinner into a guppy breeder tank (about 15cm's long,
                                                                                                                                floats - pretty small)

                                                                                                                                I put the head and tail light tetra in the trap and he lay on the bottom for
                                                                                                                                a few minute on his side, then he got up and started swimming a bit but not
                                                                                                                                much. Still spins a bit.

                                                                                                                                I've dropped some 1/2 peas in but he's not interested (the other fish are
                                                                                                                                interested, but can't get to them..)

                                                                                                                                I'll leave them in there though.

                                                                                                                                At least in the guppy tank with somewhere to rest he's not spinning as much.

                                                                                                                                --

                                                                                                                                Riccia arrived, 2 very small batches, I've left it floating in the guppy
                                                                                                                                tank too actually and it's definitely bubbling from the tips which I didn't
                                                                                                                                think it would do unless co2 was being added. I guess floating that close to
                                                                                                                                the lights keeps it happy. I thought I'd grow it up as a bunch until I had
                                                                                                                                enough to grass the tank.

                                                                                                                                --

                                                                                                                                Cheers,
                                                                                                                                Tim
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1656 From: tbittick Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                Broccoli?

                                                                                                                                Do you have to do anything special to it first? Do you have to blanch it or
                                                                                                                                anything or just put it in raw?



                                                                                                                                amalthea23 writes:

                                                                                                                                > i feed zuchinni, broccoli, and kale, and only occasionally cucumbers
                                                                                                                                > (there's not a whole lot of nutrients in them) and i give it to them a
                                                                                                                                > couple of times a week. my fish and snails LOVE them, especially my
                                                                                                                                > plecos...
                                                                                                                                > amalthea
                                                                                                                                > On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:26 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >> I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were feeding
                                                                                                                                >> their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some for my
                                                                                                                                >> fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this morning I
                                                                                                                                >> woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                >> anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                >> often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ? Sherrie
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                                                                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                >> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                                                                                                                >> Service.
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1657 From: Sarah Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                They also like boiled egg yolk 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Date: 07/04/2004 09:21:14
                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Sunil, You forgot to add Boiled Rice to it. Once a week I feed them with
                                                                                                                                lettuce, and once a month I feed them cucumber/boiled rice etc. this is
                                                                                                                                apart from the variety I feed them over a weel. Once a week: blood
                                                                                                                                worms/brine shrimp, cichlid pallets, catfish pallets, tetra prima slow
                                                                                                                                sinking pallets, tetra ruby (colour flakes), Tetra min pro (Nutrition
                                                                                                                                flakes), king british (tropical flakes), FD Tubifex etc. strange, my fish
                                                                                                                                get more variety then myself :P
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Nim
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                >From: sunil kamath [mailto:sunnyvks@...]
                                                                                                                                >Sent: 07 April 2004 08:25
                                                                                                                                >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >I havent fed any vegetables except for frozen peas to
                                                                                                                                >my fishes. But i have read other memebers feeding,
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >lettuce,
                                                                                                                                >zuchini,
                                                                                                                                >cucumber
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >to their fishes.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >But make sure that u cean the uneaten portion
                                                                                                                                >immediately o/w they might spoil the water
                                                                                                                                >conditions...
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >Hope this helps...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                >--- freedombell2002 <KPribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >> I went in to a local pet smart that other day and
                                                                                                                                >> they were feeding
                                                                                                                                >> their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I
                                                                                                                                >> bought some for my
                                                                                                                                >> fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it.
                                                                                                                                >> But this morning I
                                                                                                                                >> woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the
                                                                                                                                >> whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                >> anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or
                                                                                                                                >> anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                >> often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?
                                                                                                                                >>  Sherrie
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1658 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloride dosage information?
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloride dosage information? Also I’ve taken a photo of the fish in question, just to show you guys the swim bladder that’s visible through the skin. None of the other fish’s swim bladder look like that – it looks like a balloon ready to pop.

                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0001.jpg

                                                                                                                                Tim
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1659 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                I do Blanch all vegetables I feed them. Never tried broccoli though, but I
                                                                                                                                guess they will like it.

                                                                                                                                Vegetable matter occasionally is good for all fish, though it may sometimes
                                                                                                                                come as a drawback if fish start to get similar taste in aquatic plants. My
                                                                                                                                small 25 gallon tank has a maddening growth of limnophylla and other 90
                                                                                                                                gallon has almost none. Just coz the fish have developed a taste for them
                                                                                                                                after I first fed them peas.

                                                                                                                                Nim


                                                                                                                                >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                                                >Sent: 07 April 2004 12:17
                                                                                                                                >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >Broccoli?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >Do you have to do anything special to it first? Do you have to blanch it or
                                                                                                                                >anything or just put it in raw?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >> i feed zuchinni, broccoli, and kale, and only occasionally cucumbers
                                                                                                                                >> (there's not a whole lot of nutrients in them) and i give it to them a
                                                                                                                                >> couple of times a week. my fish and snails LOVE them, especially my
                                                                                                                                >> plecos...
                                                                                                                                >> amalthea
                                                                                                                                >> On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:26 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>> I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were feeding
                                                                                                                                >>> their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some for my
                                                                                                                                >>> fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this morning I
                                                                                                                                >>> woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                >>> anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                >>> often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ? Sherrie
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>> ADVERTISEMENT
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                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>> . To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>> . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>> . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                >>> Service.
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1660 From: tbittick Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                I tried placing a piece of lettuce in my tank a week or so ago. Two thoughts
                                                                                                                                at the time, one to attract/get rid of snails and the other wasto see if the
                                                                                                                                fish would eat it. Struck out on both counts.

                                                                                                                                So if I put a piece of broccoli/cucumber/zuchini in the tank, how long can I
                                                                                                                                safely keep it there?

                                                                                                                                Tony



                                                                                                                                Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                                                                > I do Blanch all vegetables I feed them. Never tried broccoli though, but I
                                                                                                                                > guess they will like it.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Vegetable matter occasionally is good for all fish, though it may sometimes
                                                                                                                                > come as a drawback if fish start to get similar taste in aquatic plants. My
                                                                                                                                > small 25 gallon tank has a maddening growth of limnophylla and other 90
                                                                                                                                > gallon has almost none. Just coz the fish have developed a taste for them
                                                                                                                                > after I first fed them peas.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                                                >>Sent: 07 April 2004 12:17
                                                                                                                                >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>Broccoli?
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>Do you have to do anything special to it first? Do you have to blanch it or
                                                                                                                                >>anything or just put it in raw?
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>> i feed zuchinni, broccoli, and kale, and only occasionally cucumbers
                                                                                                                                >>> (there's not a whole lot of nutrients in them) and i give it to them a
                                                                                                                                >>> couple of times a week. my fish and snails LOVE them, especially my
                                                                                                                                >>> plecos...
                                                                                                                                >>> amalthea
                                                                                                                                >>> On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:26 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were feeding
                                                                                                                                >>>> their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some for my
                                                                                                                                >>>> fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this morning I
                                                                                                                                >>>> woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                >>>> anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                >>>> often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ? Sherrie
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                                                                >>>> . To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >>>>
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                                                                                                                                >>>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                >>>> Service.
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1661 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloride dosage information?

                                                                                                                                Hi Tim,

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                The link does not work.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: 07 April 2004 12:22
                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Also I’ve taken a photo of the fish in question, just to show you guys the swim bladder that’s visible through the skin. None of the other fish’s swim bladder look like that – it looks like a balloon ready to pop.

                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0001.jpg

                                                                                                                                Tim

                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1662 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation? Hey Nim,

                                                                                                                                sorry the last 3 letters are meant to be capital JPG.
                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0001.JPG

                                                                                                                                Cheers,
                                                                                                                                Tim




                                                                                                                                Hi Tim,
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                The link does not work.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Nim
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: 07 April 2004 12:22
                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?

                                                                                                                                Also I’ve taken a photo of the fish in question, just to show you guys the swim bladder that’s visible through the skin. None of the other fish’s swim bladder look like that – it looks like a balloon ready to pop.

                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0001.jpg

                                                                                                                                Tim


                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1663 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?
                                                                                                                                Just as a followup, Dr Alexrod’s mini atlas (mini – it’s 1000 pages) says quinine hydrochloride 1 part per 30,000. So I added 1 ml to my 30 litre tank  of the quinine HCl and malachite green solution and the tank is now a lovely shade of ahh blue. If anyone thinks more  I could add more, if less then I’ll do a water change. In the meantime I’ll see how the fish are behaving in the morning and then we’ll see if this damn ick clears up.

                                                                                                                                Cheers
                                                                                                                                Tim



                                                                                                                                On 7/4/04 10:07 PM, "Tim Walker" <twalker@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                Hey Nim,

                                                                                                                                sorry the last 3 letters are meant to be capital JPG.
                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0001.JPG

                                                                                                                                Cheers,
                                                                                                                                Tim




                                                                                                                                Hi Tim,
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                The link does not work.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Nim
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: 07 April 2004 12:22
                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?

                                                                                                                                Also I’ve taken a photo of the fish in question, just to show you guys the swim bladder that’s visible through the skin. None of the other fish’s swim bladder look like that – it looks like a balloon ready to pop.

                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0001.jpg

                                                                                                                                Tim


                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1664 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloridedosageinformation?
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?

                                                                                                                                It does not look good. Is the fish still alive? I see that it has not taken the peas. Difficult to get a fish to eat in such circumstances. It could also be in internal infection but I am hopeless on diseases. If the salt treatmen, Melafix and medications did not work and it shows no improvement, then perhaps its best to euthanize it. With no improvement and its not feeding, there are 1 in a thousand chances for it to recover. Its condition will degrade.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                I know, it’s the last thing anyone wants to hear, but try what ever you can.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: 07 April 2004 13:08
                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloridedosageinformation?

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Hey Nim,

                                                                                                                                sorry the last 3 letters are meant to be capital JPG.
                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0001.JPG

                                                                                                                                Cheers,
                                                                                                                                Tim



                                                                                                                                Hi Tim,
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                The link does not work.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Nim
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                Sent: 07 April 2004 12:22
                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloride dosageinformation?

                                                                                                                                Also I’ve taken a photo of the fish in question, just to show you guys the swim bladder that’s visible through the skin. None of the other fish’s swim bladder look like that – it looks like a balloon ready to pop.

                                                                                                                                http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0001.jpg

                                                                                                                                Tim


                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1665 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                Tony,

                                                                                                                                It may take sometime for the fish to realize that it is food. Especially
                                                                                                                                things like tetras don't really tend to consider vegetable food as food. Its
                                                                                                                                only when they see others having a go at it, then they think about trying
                                                                                                                                it. What all do you have in your tank by now? Clown loaches should have
                                                                                                                                immediately reacted to lettuce though.

                                                                                                                                Nim


                                                                                                                                >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                >From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                                                >Sent: 07 April 2004 12:37
                                                                                                                                >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >I tried placing a piece of lettuce in my tank a week or so ago. Two
                                                                                                                                >thoughts
                                                                                                                                >at the time, one to attract/get rid of snails and the other wasto see if
                                                                                                                                >the
                                                                                                                                >fish would eat it. Struck out on both counts.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >So if I put a piece of broccoli/cucumber/zuchini in the tank, how long can
                                                                                                                                >I
                                                                                                                                >safely keep it there?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >Tony
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >> I do Blanch all vegetables I feed them. Never tried broccoli though, but
                                                                                                                                >I
                                                                                                                                >> guess they will like it.
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> Vegetable matter occasionally is good for all fish, though it may
                                                                                                                                >sometimes
                                                                                                                                >> come as a drawback if fish start to get similar taste in aquatic plants.
                                                                                                                                >My
                                                                                                                                >> small 25 gallon tank has a maddening growth of limnophylla and other 90
                                                                                                                                >> gallon has almost none. Just coz the fish have developed a taste for them
                                                                                                                                >> after I first fed them peas.
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >> Nim
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                >>>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                >>>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                                                >>>Sent: 07 April 2004 12:17
                                                                                                                                >>>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >>>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>Broccoli?
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>Do you have to do anything special to it first? Do you have to blanch it
                                                                                                                                >or
                                                                                                                                >>>anything or just put it in raw?
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                                                                >>>
                                                                                                                                >>>> i feed zuchinni, broccoli, and kale, and only occasionally cucumbers
                                                                                                                                >>>> (there's not a whole lot of nutrients in them) and i give it to them a
                                                                                                                                >>>> couple of times a week. my fish and snails LOVE them, especially my
                                                                                                                                >>>> plecos...
                                                                                                                                >>>> amalthea
                                                                                                                                >>>> On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:26 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                >>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>> I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were feeding
                                                                                                                                >>>>> their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some for my
                                                                                                                                >>>>> fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this morning I
                                                                                                                                >>>>> woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing. Does
                                                                                                                                >>>>> anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And how
                                                                                                                                >>>>> often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ? Sherrie
                                                                                                                                >>>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                >>>>>
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                                                                                                                                >>>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >>>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>> . To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >>>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>> . To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                >>>>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >>>>>
                                                                                                                                >>>>> . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                >>>>> Service.
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1666 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                i put it in raw, but you can also parboil it so that it doesn't float...
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                On Apr 7, 2004, at 7:17 AM, tbittick wrote:

                                                                                                                                > Broccoli?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Do you have to do anything special to it first? Do you have to blanch
                                                                                                                                > it or
                                                                                                                                > anything or just put it in raw?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > i feed zuchinni, broccoli, and kale, and only occasionally cucumbers
                                                                                                                                > > (there's not a whole lot of nutrients in them) and i give it to
                                                                                                                                > them a
                                                                                                                                > > couple of times a week. my fish and snails LOVE them, especially my
                                                                                                                                > > plecos...
                                                                                                                                > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                > > On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:26 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >> I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were feeding
                                                                                                                                > >>  their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some
                                                                                                                                > for my
                                                                                                                                > >>  fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this
                                                                                                                                > morning I
                                                                                                                                > >>  woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing.
                                                                                                                                > Does
                                                                                                                                > >>  anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And
                                                                                                                                > how
                                                                                                                                > >>  often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?   Sherrie
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >> ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                > >> <300x250_uofp_stripes.gif>
                                                                                                                                > >> <l.gif>
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>       •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                > >> 
                                                                                                                                > >>       •       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                > >> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > >> 
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                                                                                                                                > Terms of
                                                                                                                                > >> Service.
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > > http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                > > web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > 
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                > ---------------------~-->
                                                                                                                                > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or
                                                                                                                                > Lexmark
                                                                                                                                > > Printer at MyInks.com.  Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
                                                                                                                                > Canada.
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                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                >  
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                                                                                                                                web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1667 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                i keep mine there 3 days max, though that's with something solid like
                                                                                                                                zuchinni. lettuce is so thin, if it isn't eaten in a day, i'd take it
                                                                                                                                out to avoid adding ammonia to the tank. and never add stuff like
                                                                                                                                iceburg, the nutritional value to the fish is negligible when compared
                                                                                                                                with the fact that you have a rotting vegetable in the water...
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                On Apr 7, 2004, at 7:37 AM, tbittick wrote:

                                                                                                                                > I tried placing a piece of lettuce in my tank a week or so ago. Two
                                                                                                                                > thoughts
                                                                                                                                > at the time, one to attract/get rid of snails and the other wasto see
                                                                                                                                > if the
                                                                                                                                > fish would eat it. Struck out on both counts.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > So if I put a piece of broccoli/cucumber/zuchini in the tank, how
                                                                                                                                > long can I
                                                                                                                                > safely keep it there?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Tony
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Nimish Mathur writes:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > > I do Blanch all vegetables I feed them. Never tried broccoli
                                                                                                                                > though, but I
                                                                                                                                > > guess they will like it.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Vegetable matter occasionally is good for all fish, though it may
                                                                                                                                > sometimes
                                                                                                                                > > come as a drawback if fish start to get similar taste in aquatic
                                                                                                                                > plants. My
                                                                                                                                > > small 25 gallon tank has a maddening growth of limnophylla and
                                                                                                                                > other 90
                                                                                                                                > > gallon has almost none. Just coz the fish have developed a taste
                                                                                                                                > for them
                                                                                                                                > > after I first fed them peas.
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > > Nim
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                > >>-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                > >>From: tbittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                                                > >>Sent: 07 April 2004 12:17
                                                                                                                                > >>To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                > >>Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>Broccoli?
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>Do you have to do anything special to it first? Do you have to
                                                                                                                                > blanch it or
                                                                                                                                > >>anything or just put it in raw?
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>amalthea23 writes:
                                                                                                                                > >>
                                                                                                                                > >>> i feed zuchinni, broccoli, and kale, and only occasionally
                                                                                                                                > cucumbers
                                                                                                                                > >>> (there's not a whole lot of nutrients in them) and i give it to
                                                                                                                                > them a
                                                                                                                                > >>> couple of times a week. my fish and snails LOVE them, especially
                                                                                                                                > my
                                                                                                                                > >>> plecos...
                                                                                                                                > >>> amalthea
                                                                                                                                > >>> On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:26 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                > >>>
                                                                                                                                > >>>> I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were
                                                                                                                                > feeding
                                                                                                                                > >>>>  their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some
                                                                                                                                > for my
                                                                                                                                > >>>>  fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this
                                                                                                                                > morning I
                                                                                                                                > >>>>  woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing.
                                                                                                                                > Does
                                                                                                                                > >>>>  anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else?
                                                                                                                                > And how
                                                                                                                                > >>>>  often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?   Sherrie
                                                                                                                                > >>>>
                                                                                                                                > >>>>
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                                                                                                                                > >>
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                                                                                                                                > >>
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1668 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloridedosageinformation?
                                                                                                                                Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Quinine Hydrochloridedosageinformation?
                                                                                                                                The fish is still alive, if I accidentally bump his little tank then he darts around before settling down upside down again. He did have a brief stab at the peas after about 10 mins he would have only swallowed a mouth full or two, I’m leaving them in there in case he does again and I’ll swap them over in the morning for some fresh ones I’m hoping even that little bit will be enough to start things moving.. I’ve just added the malachite green + quinine HCl, that’s the first chemicals. I added salt at 1 tsp per gallon about 5 days ago. I’ll let him go a bit longer and if no improvement I guess I will have to consider euthanising him. Not happy about that, though, who ever is?

                                                                                                                                Tim


                                                                                                                                On 7/4/04 10:26 PM, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                It does not look good. Is the fish still alive? I see that it has not taken the peas. Difficult to get a fish to eat in such circumstances. It could also be in internal infection but I am hopeless on diseases. If the salt treatmen, Melafix and medications did not work and it shows no improvement, then perhaps its best to euthanize it. With no improvement and its not feeding, there are 1 in a thousand chances for it to recover. Its condition will degrade.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                I know, it’s the last thing anyone wants to hear, but try what ever you can.
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                Nim
                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1669 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Quinine Hydrochloridedosageinformation?
                                                                                                                                i'm going to have to agree and say it might be best to put it down. all
                                                                                                                                you have to do is put him in a plastic bag and leave him in the freezer
                                                                                                                                for a few minutes. it is the job of every responsible pet owner to be
                                                                                                                                able to have the kindness and wisdom to keep their animals in the least
                                                                                                                                amount of pain possible, and sometimes that means stopping it all
                                                                                                                                together.
                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                On Apr 7, 2004, at 8:42 AM, Tim Walker wrote:

                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > The fish is still alive, if I accidentally bump his little tank then
                                                                                                                                > he darts around before settling down upside down again. He did have a
                                                                                                                                > brief stab at the peas after about 10 mins he would have only
                                                                                                                                > swallowed a mouth full or two, I’m leaving them in there in case he
                                                                                                                                > does again and I’ll swap them over in the morning for some fresh ones
                                                                                                                                > I’m hoping even that little bit will be enough to start things
                                                                                                                                > moving.. I’ve just added the malachite green + quinine HCl, that’s the
                                                                                                                                > first chemicals. I added salt at 1 tsp per gallon about 5 days ago.
                                                                                                                                > I’ll let him go a bit longer and if no improvement I guess I will have
                                                                                                                                > to consider euthanising him. Not happy about that, though, who ever
                                                                                                                                > is?
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Tim
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > On 7/4/04 10:26 PM, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > It does not look good. Is the fish still alive? I see that it has not
                                                                                                                                > taken the peas. Difficult to get a fish to eat in such circumstances.
                                                                                                                                > It could also be in internal infection but I am hopeless on diseases.
                                                                                                                                > If the salt treatmen, Melafix and medications did not work and it
                                                                                                                                > shows no improvement, then perhaps its best to euthanize it. With no
                                                                                                                                > improvement and its not feeding, there are 1 in a thousand chances for
                                                                                                                                > it to recover. Its condition will degrade.
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                > I know, it’s the last thing anyone wants to hear, but try what ever
                                                                                                                                > you can.
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                > Nim
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                >  
                                                                                                                                > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                > Service.
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                religion....
                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1670 From: Rob Francois jr Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                well Ive never fed my fish cucumber but i would figure that plecos would really love it. cucumbers have lots of vitamins in them so it would be good too!


                                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1671 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                  Sorry for the original msg for those on digest, but with WebTv, I can't
                                                                                                                                  cut/paste. Look into the Hydor brand of filtration. Not the Petsmart
                                                                                                                                  versions, though, they still use metal coil heaters, the new ones don't.
                                                                                                                                  The can incorporate filter, heater and bio wheel SPONGE into one. As
                                                                                                                                  much as I've loved my Marineland products, these new ones are great.
                                                                                                                                  They can't stop (Hydor sponges) like a biowheel. I've been super
                                                                                                                                  impressed with they're heaters, can't break out of water or heat beyond
                                                                                                                                  130*. You can see the advantage. I'll try to find a link, or I will
                                                                                                                                  have to wait until I pick up some stuff from the store tomorrow, later
                                                                                                                                  Rob.

                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1672 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Newbie
                                                                                                                                  Try http://www.hydor.com/index.en.htm

                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1673 From: tbittick35 Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                  I have just taken a floret of broccoli and broken it into two. One
                                                                                                                                  part I wedged into a hole in a rock central to the tank and the other
                                                                                                                                  I wedged into the substrate nearer where the clown loaches and pictus
                                                                                                                                  cats stay.

                                                                                                                                  Noboy's biting yet, but I'll leave it in until tomorrow and see.

                                                                                                                                  Sure will make me happy if somebody starts eating it.

                                                                                                                                  T




                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                  <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > i feed zuchinni, broccoli, and kale, and only occasionally
                                                                                                                                  cucumbers
                                                                                                                                  > (there's not a whole lot of nutrients in them) and i give it to
                                                                                                                                  them a
                                                                                                                                  > couple of times a week. my fish and snails LOVE them, especially my
                                                                                                                                  > plecos...
                                                                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                                                                  > On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:26 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were
                                                                                                                                  feeding
                                                                                                                                  > > their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some
                                                                                                                                  for my
                                                                                                                                  > > fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this
                                                                                                                                  morning I
                                                                                                                                  > > woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing.
                                                                                                                                  Does
                                                                                                                                  > > anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And
                                                                                                                                  how
                                                                                                                                  > > often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?   Sherrie
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                  > > <300x250_uofp_stripes.gif>
                                                                                                                                  > > <l.gif>
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                  > >  
                                                                                                                                  > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                  > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  > >  
                                                                                                                                  > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                  Terms of
                                                                                                                                  > > Service.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                  > web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1674 From: Fred Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Snail problem
                                                                                                                                  I never understand people not loveing the snails but to each his own
                                                                                                                                  just float a big lettes leaf and hand remove. Cut back on feeding
                                                                                                                                  the fish as much as you can as well. Good luck
                                                                                                                                  freddie v--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                  amalthea23 <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > clown loaches will eat the snails, as will bubblegum parrots and
                                                                                                                                  many
                                                                                                                                  > other omniverous fish. don't worry about the fish being eaten,
                                                                                                                                  unless
                                                                                                                                  > they're sick and/or small and slow. i have a 6" blue crayfish and
                                                                                                                                  he
                                                                                                                                  > has to hide from my fish which aren't even all that aggressive. i
                                                                                                                                  have
                                                                                                                                  > a small school of brilliant raspboras that he hasn't even noticed,
                                                                                                                                  as
                                                                                                                                  > well as a whole lot of fry, and he leaves them alone. just make
                                                                                                                                  sure
                                                                                                                                  > the crayfish has an algae wafer to itself and it'll be ok...
                                                                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                                                                  > On Mar 24, 2004, at 4:53 PM, Michelle in PDX wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Hi,
                                                                                                                                  > > I am new to the group and need some advise.
                                                                                                                                  > > I have a small electric blue crayfish in a 10 gallon tank.  I
                                                                                                                                  have had
                                                                                                                                  > > her for going on three years now.  I a made the mistake of
                                                                                                                                  putting a
                                                                                                                                  > > live plant in the tank that, in retrospect, had snail eggs on
                                                                                                                                  it.  Now
                                                                                                                                  > > I have an explosion of small snails.
                                                                                                                                  > > She is eating quite a few of them but they are reproducing
                                                                                                                                  faster than
                                                                                                                                  > > she can keep up.  My local fish store suggested loaches to be
                                                                                                                                  put in
                                                                                                                                  > > the tank.  They suggested one specific kind that would probably
                                                                                                                                  be
                                                                                                                                  > > able to avoid being eaten but have not been able to find any in
                                                                                                                                  my
                                                                                                                                  > > area.  Yoyo loaches (Sp?)
                                                                                                                                  > > My question is....
                                                                                                                                  > > What other options are there?  Does anyone have any suggestions??
                                                                                                                                  > > I am planning on adding another tank and plan on shuffling
                                                                                                                                  > > everyone/everything around to accomodate and don't want to
                                                                                                                                  spread the
                                                                                                                                  > > snails to the other tanks.
                                                                                                                                  > > I have had my three tanks set up for over three years now and
                                                                                                                                  this has
                                                                                                                                  > > been my first snail problem.
                                                                                                                                  > > Considering myself lucky. 
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Michelle in PDX
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                  > >  
                                                                                                                                  > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                  > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  > >  
                                                                                                                                  > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                  Terms of
                                                                                                                                  > > Service.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                  > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1675 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/7/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Snail problem
                                                                                                                                  it's not that people don't love some snails, but "pest snails" not only
                                                                                                                                  become unsightly when they breed unchecked, but, and this is more
                                                                                                                                  important, they often carry disease and parasites and can wipe out a
                                                                                                                                  full tank of fish...
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  On Apr 8, 2004, at 2:16 AM, Fred wrote:

                                                                                                                                  > I never understand people not loveing the snails but to each his own
                                                                                                                                  > just float a big lettes leaf and hand remove. Cut back on feeding
                                                                                                                                  > the fish as much as you can as well. Good luck
                                                                                                                                  > freddie v--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                  > amalthea23 <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > > clown loaches will eat the snails, as will bubblegum parrots and
                                                                                                                                  > many
                                                                                                                                  > > other omniverous fish. don't worry about the fish being eaten,
                                                                                                                                  > unless
                                                                                                                                  > > they're sick and/or small and slow. i have a 6" blue crayfish and
                                                                                                                                  > he
                                                                                                                                  > > has to hide from my fish which aren't even all that aggressive. i
                                                                                                                                  > have
                                                                                                                                  > > a small school of brilliant raspboras that he hasn't even noticed,
                                                                                                                                  > as
                                                                                                                                  > > well as a whole lot of fry, and he leaves them alone. just make
                                                                                                                                  > sure
                                                                                                                                  > > the crayfish has an algae wafer to itself and it'll be ok...
                                                                                                                                  > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                  > > On Mar 24, 2004, at 4:53 PM, Michelle in PDX wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > Hi,
                                                                                                                                  > > > I am new to the group and need some advise.
                                                                                                                                  > > > I have a small electric blue crayfish in a 10 gallon tank.  I
                                                                                                                                  > have had
                                                                                                                                  > > > her for going on three years now.  I a made the mistake of
                                                                                                                                  > putting a
                                                                                                                                  > > > live plant in the tank that, in retrospect, had snail eggs on
                                                                                                                                  > it.  Now
                                                                                                                                  > > > I have an explosion of small snails.
                                                                                                                                  > > > She is eating quite a few of them but they are reproducing
                                                                                                                                  > faster than
                                                                                                                                  > > > she can keep up.  My local fish store suggested loaches to be
                                                                                                                                  > put in
                                                                                                                                  > > > the tank.  They suggested one specific kind that would probably
                                                                                                                                  > be
                                                                                                                                  > > > able to avoid being eaten but have not been able to find any in
                                                                                                                                  > my
                                                                                                                                  > > > area.  Yoyo loaches (Sp?)
                                                                                                                                  > > > My question is....
                                                                                                                                  > > > What other options are there?  Does anyone have any suggestions??
                                                                                                                                  > > > I am planning on adding another tank and plan on shuffling
                                                                                                                                  > > > everyone/everything around to accomodate and don't want to
                                                                                                                                  > spread the
                                                                                                                                  > > > snails to the other tanks.
                                                                                                                                  > > > I have had my three tanks set up for over three years now and
                                                                                                                                  > this has
                                                                                                                                  > > > been my first snail problem.
                                                                                                                                  > > > Considering myself lucky. 
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > Michelle in PDX
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >       •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                  > > >  
                                                                                                                                  > > >       •       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                  > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  > > >  
                                                                                                                                  > > >       •       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                  > Terms of
                                                                                                                                  > > > Service.
                                                                                                                                  > > >
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1676 From: dolph72.geo Date: 4/8/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Swim bladder?
                                                                                                                                  Have we determined what is wrong? (I may have missed something
                                                                                                                                  in the many posts) If it is swim bladder disease, I found a book that
                                                                                                                                  has a pretty good treatment method. Isolation is the first step of
                                                                                                                                  course and then adding the salt. If there is nothing wrong with your
                                                                                                                                  water the next step is to not feed the fish for a couple of days while
                                                                                                                                  the bruised and/or constipated area corrects itself. If the fish does
                                                                                                                                  make a recovery it reccomends a change of diet. I had a Mickey mouse
                                                                                                                                  platy with this problem once and not feeding helped him quite a bit.
                                                                                                                                  And of course if it is not swim bladder I am just lost :P


                                                                                                                                  Randy Clark
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1677 From: Fred Date: 4/8/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Crayfish wanted but where do I find them??
                                                                                                                                  want to breed native craydads as hobbie but can not find any for
                                                                                                                                  sale . I live in on the sunshinecoast Gibsons B.C. Can anyone help?
                                                                                                                                  Thank you
                                                                                                                                  freddie v
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1678 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/8/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                  it can sometimes take over a day for vegetables like broccoli to be
                                                                                                                                  eaten, so don't worry if they don't seem to be attacking it.
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  On Apr 7, 2004, at 6:15 PM, tbittick35 wrote:

                                                                                                                                  > I have just taken a floret of broccoli and broken it into two. One
                                                                                                                                  > part I wedged into a hole in a rock central to the tank and the other
                                                                                                                                  > I wedged into the substrate nearer where the clown loaches and pictus
                                                                                                                                  > cats stay.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Noboy's biting yet, but I'll leave it in until tomorrow and see.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Sure will make me happy if somebody starts eating it.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > T
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                  > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > > i feed zuchinni, broccoli, and kale, and only occasionally
                                                                                                                                  > cucumbers
                                                                                                                                  > > (there's not a whole lot of nutrients in them) and i give it to
                                                                                                                                  > them a
                                                                                                                                  > > couple of times a week. my fish and snails LOVE them, especially my
                                                                                                                                  > > plecos...
                                                                                                                                  > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                  > > On Apr 6, 2004, at 4:26 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > I went in to a local pet smart that other day and they were
                                                                                                                                  > feeding
                                                                                                                                  > > >  their fish cucumbers rubbered band to a rock. So I bought some
                                                                                                                                  > for my
                                                                                                                                  > > >  fish at 1st only a few of the fish nibbled at it. But this
                                                                                                                                  > morning I
                                                                                                                                  > > >  woke up to see that they had almost omost ate the whole thing.
                                                                                                                                  > Does
                                                                                                                                  > > >  anyone else here feed their fish cucumbers or anything else? And
                                                                                                                                  > how
                                                                                                                                  > > >  often do you feed it to them? once a week or what ?   Sherrie
                                                                                                                                  > > >
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1679 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/8/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  What kind of fish are in the tank?


                                                                                                                                  Theresa

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "tbittick35" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 6:15 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber? for fish


                                                                                                                                  I have just taken a floret of broccoli and broken it into two. One
                                                                                                                                  part I wedged into a hole in a rock central to the tank and the other
                                                                                                                                  I wedged into the substrate nearer where the clown loaches and pictus
                                                                                                                                  cats stay.

                                                                                                                                  Noboy's biting yet, but I'll leave it in until tomorrow and see.

                                                                                                                                  Sure will make me happy if somebody starts eating it.

                                                                                                                                  T
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1680 From: tbittick Date: 4/8/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  5 oto algae eaters
                                                                                                                                  2 Clown loaches
                                                                                                                                  2 pictus cats
                                                                                                                                  8 black phantom tetras




                                                                                                                                  Dan & Theresa writes:

                                                                                                                                  > What kind of fish are in the tank?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Theresa
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > From: "tbittick35" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 6:15 PM
                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I have just taken a floret of broccoli and broken it into two. One
                                                                                                                                  > part I wedged into a hole in a rock central to the tank and the other
                                                                                                                                  > I wedged into the substrate nearer where the clown loaches and pictus
                                                                                                                                  > cats stay.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Noboy's biting yet, but I'll leave it in until tomorrow and see.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Sure will make me happy if somebody starts eating it.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > T
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1681 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/8/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  I have otos, am just trying zucchini with them for the first time today. Not
                                                                                                                                  sure about the tetras or cats but I'd think the loaches would be right in
                                                                                                                                  there....keep us posted.


                                                                                                                                  Theresa



                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "tbittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish


                                                                                                                                  > 5 oto algae eaters
                                                                                                                                  > 2 Clown loaches
                                                                                                                                  > 2 pictus cats
                                                                                                                                  > 8 black phantom tetras
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1682 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  Otos still haven't touched the zucchini that I can see. I normally only
                                                                                                                                  leave veggies in for the day but since otos can be noctural eaters I'll
                                                                                                                                  leave it overnight.


                                                                                                                                  Theresa

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:05 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish


                                                                                                                                  > I have otos, am just trying zucchini with them for the first time today.
                                                                                                                                  Not
                                                                                                                                  > sure about the tetras or cats but I'd think the loaches would be right in
                                                                                                                                  > there....keep us posted.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Theresa
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > From: "tbittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > 5 oto algae eaters
                                                                                                                                  > > 2 Clown loaches
                                                                                                                                  > > 2 pictus cats
                                                                                                                                  > > 8 black phantom tetras
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1683 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Crayfish wanted but where do I find them??
                                                                                                                                  Freddie,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  You can try www.aquabid.com
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  I have seen some on there
                                                                                                                                  Rick
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1684 From: Tony Bittick Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  I put two pieces of broccoli in... the one I stuck in the substrate closest
                                                                                                                                  to the pictus and the loaches looks like somebody gave it a haircut. the
                                                                                                                                  piece stuck in the rock in the other side of the tank has gone untouched.

                                                                                                                                  Tony


                                                                                                                                  AT 04:21 PM 4/8/2004 Dan & Theresa offered the following words:
                                                                                                                                  >Otos still haven't touched the zucchini that I can see. I normally only
                                                                                                                                  >leave veggies in for the day but since otos can be noctural eaters I'll
                                                                                                                                  >leave it overnight.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >Theresa
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  >From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                  >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  >Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:05 AM
                                                                                                                                  >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > I have otos, am just trying zucchini with them for the first time today.
                                                                                                                                  >Not
                                                                                                                                  > > sure about the tetras or cats but I'd think the loaches would be right in
                                                                                                                                  > > there....keep us posted.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Theresa
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > > From: "tbittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > 5 oto algae eaters
                                                                                                                                  > > > 2 Clown loaches
                                                                                                                                  > > > 2 pictus cats
                                                                                                                                  > > > 8 black phantom tetras
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1685 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: veggies for fish
                                                                                                                                  I couldn't tell what happened with my otos & the zucchini. By this morning
                                                                                                                                  it turned to mush and was a mess trying to remove from the tank. I'm not
                                                                                                                                  going to leave veggies in the tank overnight anymore.

                                                                                                                                  Trying zucchini in my 29g for the first time today. My 3 spot gourami,
                                                                                                                                  loaches & platies are normally pigs with veggies but so far not much
                                                                                                                                  interest in zucchini.

                                                                                                                                  So far peas have been the biggest hit with all of them and tomatoes with the
                                                                                                                                  loaches.


                                                                                                                                  Theresa

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:53 AM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:cucumber for fish


                                                                                                                                  > I put two pieces of broccoli in... the one I stuck in the substrate
                                                                                                                                  closest
                                                                                                                                  > to the pictus and the loaches looks like somebody gave it a haircut. the
                                                                                                                                  > piece stuck in the rock in the other side of the tank has gone untouched.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Tony
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1686 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  that's about all that happens with broccoli. the little flowers are
                                                                                                                                  eaten off, the stem if a bit too tough for most fish to consume, so you
                                                                                                                                  can remove that unless you have crabs or crayfish. those will pick at
                                                                                                                                  the stem.
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  On Apr 9, 2004, at 8:53 AM, Tony Bittick wrote:

                                                                                                                                  > I put two pieces of broccoli in... the one I stuck in the substrate
                                                                                                                                  > closest
                                                                                                                                  > to the pictus and the loaches looks like somebody gave it a haircut.
                                                                                                                                  > the
                                                                                                                                  > piece stuck in the rock in the other side of the tank has gone
                                                                                                                                  > untouched.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Tony
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > AT 04:21 PM 4/8/2004 Dan & Theresa offered the following words:
                                                                                                                                  > >Otos still haven't touched the zucchini that I can see. I normally
                                                                                                                                  > only
                                                                                                                                  > >leave veggies in for the day but since otos can be noctural eaters
                                                                                                                                  > I'll
                                                                                                                                  > >leave it overnight.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >Theresa
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > >From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                  > >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > >Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:05 AM
                                                                                                                                  > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > I have otos, am just trying zucchini with them for the first time
                                                                                                                                  > today.
                                                                                                                                  > >Not
                                                                                                                                  > > > sure about the tetras or cats but I'd think the loaches would be
                                                                                                                                  > right in
                                                                                                                                  > > > there....keep us posted.
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > Theresa
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > > > From: "tbittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  > > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  > > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > > 5 oto algae eaters
                                                                                                                                  > > > > 2 Clown loaches
                                                                                                                                  > > > > 2 pictus cats
                                                                                                                                  > > > > 8 black phantom tetras
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                  > Service.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                  http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                  don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1687 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: veggies for fish
                                                                                                                                  if the zucchini has been "sucessfully" eaten, you should have the dark
                                                                                                                                  green of the rind left over and thats about it.
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  On Apr 9, 2004, at 9:04 AM, Dan & Theresa wrote:

                                                                                                                                  > I couldn't tell what happened with my otos & the zucchini. By this
                                                                                                                                  > morning
                                                                                                                                  > it turned to mush and was a mess trying to remove from the tank. I'm
                                                                                                                                  > not
                                                                                                                                  > going to leave veggies in the tank overnight anymore.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Trying zucchini in my 29g for the first time today. My 3 spot gourami,
                                                                                                                                  > loaches & platies are normally pigs with veggies but so far not much
                                                                                                                                  > interest in zucchini.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > So far peas have been the biggest hit with all of them and tomatoes
                                                                                                                                  > with the
                                                                                                                                  > loaches.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Theresa
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > From: "Tony Bittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:53 AM
                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > I put two pieces of broccoli in... the one I stuck in the substrate
                                                                                                                                  > closest
                                                                                                                                  > > to the pictus and the loaches looks like somebody gave it a
                                                                                                                                  > haircut. the
                                                                                                                                  > > piece stuck in the rock in the other side of the tank has gone
                                                                                                                                  > untouched.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Tony
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1688 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: no slime coat??
                                                                                                                                  I was feeding my fish, and noticed that one of the mollie fry has a dull
                                                                                                                                  appearance, and her eyes look sort of cloudy. Now I was thinking it was
                                                                                                                                  fungus because the clouded eyes sounds like one of the descriptions on the
                                                                                                                                  back of the fungus tab package. But not having any shine to the scales? It
                                                                                                                                  looks to me like there is no slime coat on her, but I don't understand what
                                                                                                                                  could be causing it. It doesn't look like any of the other fish are
                                                                                                                                  pestering her. I have a plecostamus in the tank, but he never bothers any of
                                                                                                                                  the fish, he just minds his own business and sucks on the sides of the tank
                                                                                                                                  and the aquarium decorations and stuff.

                                                                                                                                  I was thinking I'd drop in fungus clear tablets tonight because of the
                                                                                                                                  cloudy eyes ... would that help the slime coat? Or is there another way of
                                                                                                                                  helping that at all? Or will I have to euthanize her? She doesn't seem to be
                                                                                                                                  in any distress at all, she is swimming normally and eating and nobody is
                                                                                                                                  pestering her. It's just that she has a dull appearance and her eyes are
                                                                                                                                  clouded.

                                                                                                                                  Any ideas? She's a few months old.

                                                                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1689 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: no slime coat??
                                                                                                                                  it sounds like she has a fungus. some fungus coats the entire body
                                                                                                                                  causing it to look dull. do you add salt to the water? one tablespoon
                                                                                                                                  per 5 gallons is standard for mollies and many mollies will develop
                                                                                                                                  fungus without it. if possible, isolate her, treat her with a fungicide
                                                                                                                                  and/or add salt to BOTH tanks, and that should clear it up!
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  (incidentally, i finally got around to adding pictures of my planted
                                                                                                                                  tank to the main page...)

                                                                                                                                  On Apr 9, 2004, at 12:41 PM, Erin VanKouwenberg wrote:

                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I was feeding my fish, and noticed that one of the mollie fry has a
                                                                                                                                  > dull
                                                                                                                                  > appearance, and her eyes look sort of cloudy. Now I was thinking it
                                                                                                                                  > was
                                                                                                                                  > fungus because the clouded eyes sounds like one of the descriptions
                                                                                                                                  > on the
                                                                                                                                  > back of the fungus tab package. But not having any shine to the
                                                                                                                                  > scales? It
                                                                                                                                  > looks to me like there is no slime coat on her, but I don't
                                                                                                                                  > understand what
                                                                                                                                  > could be causing it. It doesn't look like any of the other fish are
                                                                                                                                  > pestering her. I have a plecostamus in the tank, but he never bothers
                                                                                                                                  > any of
                                                                                                                                  > the fish, he just minds his own business and sucks on the sides of
                                                                                                                                  > the tank
                                                                                                                                  > and the aquarium decorations and stuff.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I was thinking I'd drop in fungus clear tablets tonight because of the
                                                                                                                                  > cloudy eyes ... would that help the slime coat? Or is there another
                                                                                                                                  > way of
                                                                                                                                  > helping that at all? Or will I have to euthanize her? She doesn't
                                                                                                                                  > seem to be
                                                                                                                                  > in any distress at all, she is swimming normally and eating and
                                                                                                                                  > nobody is
                                                                                                                                  > pestering her. It's just that she has a dull appearance and her eyes
                                                                                                                                  > are
                                                                                                                                  > clouded.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Any ideas? She's a few months old.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Erin
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  >  
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                                                                                                                                  > Service.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                  for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                  religion....
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1690 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: veggies for fish
                                                                                                                                  My fish even eat the dark green rind. But then, my tank has a lot more fish
                                                                                                                                  in it right now then I'd like. I haven't got the gas money at the moment to
                                                                                                                                  drive a half hour to donate them to the pet shop that I finally found who
                                                                                                                                  would take them.

                                                                                                                                  My zucchini also stays in probably a day longer than most other people,
                                                                                                                                  because I put it in the tank frozen. It would get nasty in the refrigerator,
                                                                                                                                  and with freezing it I can keep a stock of zucchini much longer. So it takes
                                                                                                                                  a few hours to almost a day for the fish to even start nibbling at it ...
                                                                                                                                  whether because it's frozen and they just don't realize it's food, or
                                                                                                                                  because it's too hard at first.

                                                                                                                                  Erin


                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                  From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Date: 04/09/04 12:27:17
                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] veggies for fish

                                                                                                                                  if the zucchini has been "sucessfully" eaten, you should have the dark
                                                                                                                                  green of the rind left over and thats about it.
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1691 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: no slime coat??
                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the quick reply. I add salt to the tank ... I follow the standard
                                                                                                                                  1 tablespoon per five US gallons rule ... heaping tablespoons that is. At
                                                                                                                                  the moment I can't isolate her, because the filter in my small tank needs to
                                                                                                                                  be replaced ... once I get THAT tank clean, I might put her in there. My
                                                                                                                                  only problem is that every time I've isolated my mollies or platys from the
                                                                                                                                  others, the one fish that is isolated suffers. They don't swim normally, and
                                                                                                                                  they refuse to eat until they are back with the others.

                                                                                                                                  I have no idea if any of the other fish are affected, so I'm just treating
                                                                                                                                  the whole tank for fungus. I'll keep you posted.

                                                                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                  From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Date: 04/09/04 13:29:26
                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] no slime coat??

                                                                                                                                  it sounds like she has a fungus. some fungus coats the entire body
                                                                                                                                  causing it to look dull. do you add salt to the water? one tablespoon
                                                                                                                                  per 5 gallons is standard for mollies and many mollies will develop
                                                                                                                                  fungus without it. if possible, isolate her, treat her with a fungicide
                                                                                                                                  and/or add salt to BOTH tanks, and that should clear it up!
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1692 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  Any Vegetables that Corydoras' like?
                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  > that's about all that happens with broccoli. the little flowers are
                                                                                                                                  > eaten off, the stem if a bit too tough for most fish to consume, so you
                                                                                                                                  > can remove that unless you have crabs or crayfish. those will pick at
                                                                                                                                  > the stem.
                                                                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                                                                  > On Apr 9, 2004, at 8:53 AM, Tony Bittick wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > I put two pieces of broccoli in... the one I stuck in the substrate
                                                                                                                                  > > closest
                                                                                                                                  > > to the pictus and the loaches looks like somebody gave it a haircut.
                                                                                                                                  > > the
                                                                                                                                  > > piece stuck in the rock in the other side of the tank has gone
                                                                                                                                  > > untouched.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Tony
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > AT 04:21 PM 4/8/2004 Dan & Theresa offered the following words:
                                                                                                                                  > > >Otos still haven't touched the zucchini that I can see. I normally
                                                                                                                                  > > only
                                                                                                                                  > > >leave veggies in for the day but since otos can be noctural eaters
                                                                                                                                  > > I'll
                                                                                                                                  > > >leave it overnight.
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >Theresa
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > > >From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                  > > >To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > > >Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:05 AM

                                                                                                                                  > > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > > I have otos, am just trying zucchini with them for the first time
                                                                                                                                  > > today.
                                                                                                                                  > > >Not
                                                                                                                                  > > > > sure about the tetras or cats but I'd think the loaches would be
                                                                                                                                  > > right in
                                                                                                                                  > > > > there....keep us posted.
                                                                                                                                  > > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > > Theresa
                                                                                                                                  > > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > > > > From: "tbittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  > > > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  > > > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  > > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > > > 5 oto algae eaters
                                                                                                                                  > > > > > 2 Clown loaches
                                                                                                                                  > > > > > 2 pictus cats
                                                                                                                                  > > > > > 8 black phantom tetras
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                  > > �

                                                                                                                                  > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                  > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  > > �
                                                                                                                                  > > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                  > > Service.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                  > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1693 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  i'd just give them a few to try out and see what yours go for...
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  On Apr 9, 2004, at 4:41 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                  > Any Vegetables that Corydoras' like?
                                                                                                                                  > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  >> that's about all that happens with broccoli. the little flowers are
                                                                                                                                  >> eaten off, the stem if a bit too tough for most fish to consume, so
                                                                                                                                  >> you
                                                                                                                                  >> can remove that unless you have crabs or crayfish. those will pick at
                                                                                                                                  >> the stem.
                                                                                                                                  >> amalthea
                                                                                                                                  >> On Apr 9, 2004, at 8:53 AM, Tony Bittick wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >>> I put two pieces of broccoli in... the one I stuck in the substrate
                                                                                                                                  >>> closest
                                                                                                                                  >>> to the pictus and the loaches looks like somebody gave it a haircut.
                                                                                                                                  >>> the
                                                                                                                                  >>> piece stuck in the rock in the other side of the tank has gone
                                                                                                                                  >>> untouched.
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>> Tony
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>> AT 04:21 PM 4/8/2004 Dan & Theresa offered the following words:
                                                                                                                                  >>>> Otos still haven't touched the zucchini that I can see. I normally
                                                                                                                                  >>> only
                                                                                                                                  >>>> leave veggies in for the day but since otos can be noctural eaters
                                                                                                                                  >>> I'll
                                                                                                                                  >>>> leave it overnight.
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>> Theresa
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  >>>> From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                  >>>> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:05 AM
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >>>> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>> I have otos, am just trying zucchini with them for the first time
                                                                                                                                  >>> today.
                                                                                                                                  >>>> Not
                                                                                                                                  >>>>> sure about the tetras or cats but I'd think the loaches would be
                                                                                                                                  >>> right in
                                                                                                                                  >>>>> there....keep us posted.
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>> Theresa
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  >>>>> From: "tbittick" <tbittick@...>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  >>>>> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber for fish
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>> 5 oto algae eaters
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>> 2 Clown loaches
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>> 2 pictus cats
                                                                                                                                  >>>>>> 8 black phantom tetras
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                  >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                  >>>  
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                  >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  >>>  
                                                                                                                                  >>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                  >>> Service.
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                  >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                  http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                  don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1694 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/9/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Swim bladder?
                                                                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Swim bladder? Hi,

                                                                                                                                  Sorry I missed this post until just then..

                                                                                                                                  In the end I think it’s possibly NOT swim bladder. But still I’m not sure.
                                                                                                                                  The fish wasn’t stuck at the top or the bottom. He was reasonably buoyant anywhere in the tank, the problem was that he was constantly getting turned upside down unless he struggled to maintain an upright position. He’d get worn out after a while and spend ages lying on his back at the bottom of the tank and then he’d get up and try again. The general result was that he’d swim spinning around and around in circles laterally, like a corkscrew.

                                                                                                                                  He didn’t eat for the first 2 days, I then separated him and fed him green peas every day since. Only the first day did he actually have a nibble at the peas, since then he hasn’t eaten. I’ve dosed the tank with malachite green and quinine (also was having a small problem with ick which seems to have come with the fish when I bought them) and that didn’t seem to make the difference.

                                                                                                                                  Today is the fifth day that he’s either been spinning or lying on his back. I resolved last night to euthanise him today if he wasn’t looking better this morning. I came out and he’s spent the hour since I got our of bed lying on his back. So I’ve just packaged him up in a small amount of water and placed him in the freezer. I’ll take him out later today.

                                                                                                                                  I’m a bit sad to loose the little guy at this point – after trying to get him going for almost a week. But it’s to the point where it was cruel to keep him going any more :-( Ahh well.

                                                                                                                                  Sometimes that’s fish keeping.

                                                                                                                                  Cya,
                                                                                                                                  Tim







                                                                                                                                  On 8/4/04 1:48 PM, "dolph72.geo" <rdolph72@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                      Have we determined what is wrong?  (I may have missed something
                                                                                                                                  in the many posts)  If it is swim bladder disease, I found a book that
                                                                                                                                  has a pretty good treatment method.  Isolation is the first step of
                                                                                                                                  course and then adding the salt.  If there is nothing wrong with your
                                                                                                                                  water the next step is to not feed the fish for a couple of days while
                                                                                                                                  the bruised and/or constipated area corrects itself.  If the fish does
                                                                                                                                  make a recovery it reccomends a change of diet.  I had a Mickey mouse
                                                                                                                                  platy with this problem once and not feeding helped him quite a bit.
                                                                                                                                  And of course if it is not swim bladder I am just lost :P


                                                                                                                                  Randy Clark
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1695 From: Nancy A. Hanne Date: 4/10/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: newbie--ick
                                                                                                                                  I'm a newbie. I purchased a 12-gal. tank and have had guppies, neons
                                                                                                                                  and a couple grubbers in it. Total of 12 fish. About 1 1/2 weeks
                                                                                                                                  ago we noticed ick. I started treatment with the fizzing pellets,
                                                                                                                                  but the disease progressed and killed all my fish. Now I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                  what to do. Should I remove all the water, buy new rock and start
                                                                                                                                  all over? Or should I continue the daily treatment for awhile and
                                                                                                                                  slowly add new fish in a couple weeks?

                                                                                                                                  My water temp is 72. I'm considering switching to the bubble-eye
                                                                                                                                  goldfish-just 2 or 3 instead. Would they like this temp? Are they
                                                                                                                                  hardier? More resistant to ick?

                                                                                                                                  Sorry for all the questions, but I'd appreciate your help!

                                                                                                                                  Thanks!
                                                                                                                                  Latheringloon
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1696 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/10/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: newbie--ick
                                                                                                                                  it sounds like you overstocked the tank a bit and then didn't raise the
                                                                                                                                  water temp when you did the ick treatment. do you use a heater or is 72
                                                                                                                                  the water's stable temp? what kind of filtration are you using?
                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                  On Apr 10, 2004, at 1:03 PM, Nancy A. Hanne wrote:

                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I'm a newbie. I purchased a 12-gal. tank and have had guppies, neons
                                                                                                                                  > and a couple grubbers in it. Total of 12 fish. About 1 1/2 weeks
                                                                                                                                  > ago we noticed ick. I started treatment with the fizzing pellets,
                                                                                                                                  > but the disease progressed and killed all my fish. Now I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                  > what to do. Should I remove all the water, buy new rock and start
                                                                                                                                  > all over? Or should I continue the daily treatment for awhile and
                                                                                                                                  > slowly add new fish in a couple weeks?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > My water temp is 72. I'm considering switching to the bubble-eye
                                                                                                                                  > goldfish-just 2 or 3 instead. Would they like this temp? Are they
                                                                                                                                  > hardier? More resistant to ick?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Sorry for all the questions, but I'd appreciate your help!
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                  > Latheringloon
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                  > <300x250_uofp_stripes.gif>
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                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                  >  
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                                                                                                                                  http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                  don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1697 From: freddie v Date: 4/10/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Crayfish wanted but where do I find them??
                                                                                                                                  Again none will send to Canada. But I will keep trying
                                                                                                                                  that you
                                                                                                                                  --- rca2745@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > Freddie,
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > You can try www.aquabid.com
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I have seen some on there
                                                                                                                                  > Rick
                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                  =====
                                                                                                                                  enjoy the day http://facelink.com/fred19

                                                                                                                                  __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1698 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Tank Still Hasn't Cycled, added new fish
                                                                                                                                  I have not seen any, repeat, ANY, sign of ammonia in my tank for the last 2
                                                                                                                                  weeks. No Nitrates or Nitrites either. I suspect that the large amount of
                                                                                                                                  plants I placed in the tank is absorbing all the NH4 before the bacteria
                                                                                                                                  ever get their hands on it.

                                                                                                                                  I'm also getting brown and green hair algae growth.. no apparent
                                                                                                                                  accumulation of fish waste/excess food (despite feeding extra to try and
                                                                                                                                  kick start the cycling).

                                                                                                                                  I've started fertilising the plants using "daily gro" - trace elements,
                                                                                                                                  iron, etc. 1 drop every second day. I'm also considering a small CO2 setup
                                                                                                                                  for the hell of It, reduce the PH a tad and it can't hurt if I keep an eye
                                                                                                                                  on it (bought a CO2 testing kit).

                                                                                                                                  I've left my riccia floating around the top of the tank until it increases
                                                                                                                                  in size a bit.. ultimately I want to "grass" the tank. It seems to be
                                                                                                                                  happily pearling in the bright light at the top of the tank.

                                                                                                                                  So in a bid to get my NH4 up a little bit, I've added some extra fish to the
                                                                                                                                  tank. All small at the moment.

                                                                                                                                  4 Bronze Cats - Corydoras aeneus - 2cm (1inch) in size, should stay small
                                                                                                                                  enough in that tank for 6-12 months until I roll out the 4 ft. According
                                                                                                                                  to Alexrod's mini atlas max 7 cm.

                                                                                                                                  3 True Siamese Algae Eaters. Jagged border along black band, and the black
                                                                                                                                  band extends out across the tail fin also only have 1 pair of barbels. They
                                                                                                                                  were labelled "Flying Fox Siamese" - I took my internet enabled phone with
                                                                                                                                  me to search for exact pictures of the SAE's before I took them from the
                                                                                                                                  shop, they're no more than 5cm at this stage, and have settled in straight
                                                                                                                                  away happily cleaning plant leaves. Very cute.

                                                                                                                                  Finally I added 1 showy fish - a Betta. Bright blue, I just feel sorry for
                                                                                                                                  the buggers sitting around in a 5cm x 10cm cell... and I always wanted one
                                                                                                                                  when I was a kid. There's no other finny fish in there to nip.

                                                                                                                                  I sat down at the tank before and couldn't see any of the fish I bought.
                                                                                                                                  Well that was money well spent I though :-) They were all wondering around
                                                                                                                                  the back of the tank..

                                                                                                                                  I'm going to do daily (or perhaps twice daily) NH4 checks to ensure the
                                                                                                                                  sudden load doesn't get out of hand, however I suspect the plants will suck
                                                                                                                                  most of it. (Java Fern, Giant Val, Wisteria, Blue Stricta, Riccia, and
                                                                                                                                  another Hygrophila species I haven't identified yet)

                                                                                                                                  I know I was jumping in with a lot of fish, but considering my severe lack
                                                                                                                                  of success with ammonia and guaranteed daily+ checks of the water quality I
                                                                                                                                  doubt it will be a problem.

                                                                                                                                  Cheers,
                                                                                                                                  Tim
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1699 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Tank Still Hasn't Cycled, added new fish
                                                                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Tank Still Hasn't Cycled, added new fish A quick follow up. I went out for about 5 hours, came home and fully 1/2 the plants in the tank have had all the brown algae cleared off them. There’s also pellets of SAE poop sitting on some of the larger leaves. I’m so impressed that I’m scared I’m going to have to start an algae culture tank just to keep em fed! I think I’ll have to find myself some algae wafers before very long :-)

                                                                                                                                  mind you I’m all grins. That’s exactly what I was hoping they’d do.

                                                                                                                                  Cheers!
                                                                                                                                  Tim



                                                                                                                                  On 11/4/04 11:08 PM, "Tim Walker" <twalker@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                  I have not seen any, repeat, ANY, sign of ammonia in my tank for the last 2
                                                                                                                                  weeks. No Nitrates or Nitrites either. I suspect that the large amount of
                                                                                                                                  plants I placed in the tank is absorbing all the NH4 before the bacteria
                                                                                                                                  ever get their hands on it.

                                                                                                                                  I'm also getting brown and green hair algae growth.. no apparent
                                                                                                                                  accumulation of fish waste/excess food (despite feeding extra to try and
                                                                                                                                  kick start the cycling).

                                                                                                                                  I've started fertilising the plants using "daily gro"  - trace elements,
                                                                                                                                  iron, etc. 1 drop every second day. I'm also considering a small CO2 setup
                                                                                                                                  for the hell of It, reduce the PH a tad and it can't hurt if I keep an eye
                                                                                                                                  on it (bought a CO2 testing kit).

                                                                                                                                  I've left my riccia floating around the top of the tank until it increases
                                                                                                                                  in size a bit.. ultimately I want to "grass" the tank. It seems to be
                                                                                                                                  happily pearling in the bright light at the top of the tank.

                                                                                                                                  So in a bid to get my NH4 up a little bit, I've added some extra fish to the
                                                                                                                                  tank. All small at the moment.

                                                                                                                                  4 Bronze Cats - Corydoras aeneus - 2cm (1inch) in size, should stay small
                                                                                                                                  enough in that tank for 6-12 months until I roll out the 4 ft. According
                                                                                                                                  to Alexrod's mini atlas max 7 cm.

                                                                                                                                  3 True Siamese Algae Eaters. Jagged border along black band, and the black
                                                                                                                                  band extends out across the tail fin also only have 1 pair of barbels. They
                                                                                                                                  were labelled "Flying Fox Siamese" - I took my internet enabled phone with
                                                                                                                                  me to search for exact pictures of the SAE's before I took them from the
                                                                                                                                  shop, they're no more than 5cm at this stage, and have settled in straight
                                                                                                                                  away happily cleaning plant leaves. Very cute.

                                                                                                                                  Finally I added 1 showy fish - a Betta. Bright blue, I just feel sorry for
                                                                                                                                  the buggers sitting around in a 5cm x 10cm cell... and I always wanted one
                                                                                                                                  when I was a kid. There's no other finny fish in there to nip.

                                                                                                                                  I sat down at the tank before  and couldn't see any of the fish I bought.
                                                                                                                                  Well that was money well spent I though :-) They were all wondering around
                                                                                                                                  the back of the tank..

                                                                                                                                  I'm going to do daily (or perhaps twice daily) NH4 checks to ensure the
                                                                                                                                  sudden load doesn't get out of hand, however I suspect the plants will suck
                                                                                                                                  most of it. (Java Fern, Giant Val, Wisteria, Blue Stricta, Riccia,  and
                                                                                                                                  another Hygrophila species I haven't identified yet)

                                                                                                                                  I know I was jumping in with a lot of fish, but considering my severe lack
                                                                                                                                  of success with ammonia and guaranteed daily+ checks of the water quality I
                                                                                                                                  doubt it will be a problem.

                                                                                                                                  Cheers,
                                                                                                                                  Tim

                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1700 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Crayfish wanted but where do I find them??
                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 4/10/2004 11:42:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, smtwnman@... writes:
                                                                                                                                  ain none will send to Canada. But I will keep trying
                                                                                                                                  that you
                                                                                                                                  I am not sure where in Canada you are located, but maybe you can go collect some wild ones?
                                                                                                                                  Try this link.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Or this site dedicated to Canadian crayfish pets.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Mike
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1701 From: Lesley Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: algae eater
                                                                                                                                  Hi, I have recently set up a 10 gallon tank. It currently has 6
                                                                                                                                  zebra danio's in it, and I would like to add an algae eater. I added
                                                                                                                                  aquarium salt and I have heard that many algae eaters can not
                                                                                                                                  tolerate the salt, any ideas?
                                                                                                                                  Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                  Lesley in NV
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1702 From: windynyc1 Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                  Hello! I have just joined this group in an attempt to find an answer
                                                                                                                                  to the problem we are having with our son's fish tank. This is my
                                                                                                                                  first real foray into keeping fish and I am finding out exactly how
                                                                                                                                  much is involved!

                                                                                                                                  So first some background - we have had a 10g tank that came with
                                                                                                                                  filter and heater since February. We have fake plants and seashells
                                                                                                                                  and some gravel. The tank is inhabited by two neons, two tetras and
                                                                                                                                  one catfish. We purchased the catfish in an attempt to control the
                                                                                                                                  green algae that was growing on all surfaces. He did a great job, but
                                                                                                                                  after the last 1/4 water change, we started getting some kind of algae
                                                                                                                                  I guess, that doesn't adhere to anything but turns the water
                                                                                                                                  greenish-brown. We tried algae-cide and did a complete water change
                                                                                                                                  when that didn't seem to be enough. The problem seemed gone for a day
                                                                                                                                  or two, but is now back and getting worse. The fish don't seem to
                                                                                                                                  mind, but then, it's so cloudy that it is hard to see the fish! Does
                                                                                                                                  anyone know what is causing this and how to control it? Oh, since it
                                                                                                                                  seems to be a point made in other postings - we keep the tank light on
                                                                                                                                  only during daylight hours and have tried to keep it off more often,
                                                                                                                                  but that hasn't made any difference.

                                                                                                                                  Thanks in advance for any help!
                                                                                                                                  Windy
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1703 From: H Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                  is the tank in any sunlight, if so move it.


                                                                                                                                  H

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  From: "windynyc1" <windynyc1@...>
                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 9:35 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae problem (newbie)


                                                                                                                                  > Hello! I have just joined this group in an attempt to find an answer
                                                                                                                                  > to the problem we are having with our son's fish tank. This is my
                                                                                                                                  > first real foray into keeping fish and I am finding out exactly how
                                                                                                                                  > much is involved!
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > So first some background - we have had a 10g tank that came with
                                                                                                                                  > filter and heater since February. We have fake plants and seashells
                                                                                                                                  > and some gravel. The tank is inhabited by two neons, two tetras and
                                                                                                                                  > one catfish. We purchased the catfish in an attempt to control the
                                                                                                                                  > green algae that was growing on all surfaces. He did a great job, but
                                                                                                                                  > after the last 1/4 water change, we started getting some kind of algae
                                                                                                                                  > I guess, that doesn't adhere to anything but turns the water
                                                                                                                                  > greenish-brown. We tried algae-cide and did a complete water change
                                                                                                                                  > when that didn't seem to be enough. The problem seemed gone for a day
                                                                                                                                  > or two, but is now back and getting worse. The fish don't seem to
                                                                                                                                  > mind, but then, it's so cloudy that it is hard to see the fish! Does
                                                                                                                                  > anyone know what is causing this and how to control it? Oh, since it
                                                                                                                                  > seems to be a point made in other postings - we keep the tank light on
                                                                                                                                  > only during daylight hours and have tried to keep it off more often,
                                                                                                                                  > but that hasn't made any difference.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks in advance for any help!
                                                                                                                                  > Windy
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1704 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Algae Problems
                                                                                                                                  Hi,
                                                                                                                                    Regarding the problem with brown/dusty stuff (which, according to resources, is not algae, but a plankton/radiolaria), 'tho it's been a long time since I experienced the problem, and had that kind of input on the subject, I believe it's a temporary problem with newly set-up tanks, if proper conditions exist.
                                                                                                                                                                 Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1705 From: windynyc1 Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                  The room actually gets very little sunlight - it has only one high
                                                                                                                                  window that is usually covered by a blind.

                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "H"
                                                                                                                                  <mark@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > is the tank in any sunlight, if so move it.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > H
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > From: "windynyc1" <windynyc1@y...>
                                                                                                                                  > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 9:35 PM
                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > > Hello! I have just joined this group in an attempt to find an
                                                                                                                                  answer
                                                                                                                                  > > to the problem we are having with our son's fish tank. This is my
                                                                                                                                  > > first real foray into keeping fish and I am finding out exactly
                                                                                                                                  how
                                                                                                                                  > > much is involved!
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > So first some background - we have had a 10g tank that came with
                                                                                                                                  > > filter and heater since February. We have fake plants and
                                                                                                                                  seashells
                                                                                                                                  > > and some gravel. The tank is inhabited by two neons, two tetras
                                                                                                                                  and
                                                                                                                                  > > one catfish. We purchased the catfish in an attempt to control
                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                  > > green algae that was growing on all surfaces. He did a great
                                                                                                                                  job, but
                                                                                                                                  > > after the last 1/4 water change, we started getting some kind of
                                                                                                                                  algae
                                                                                                                                  > > I guess, that doesn't adhere to anything but turns the water
                                                                                                                                  > > greenish-brown. We tried algae-cide and did a complete water
                                                                                                                                  change
                                                                                                                                  > > when that didn't seem to be enough. The problem seemed gone for a
                                                                                                                                  day
                                                                                                                                  > > or two, but is now back and getting worse. The fish don't seem to
                                                                                                                                  > > mind, but then, it's so cloudy that it is hard to see the fish!
                                                                                                                                  Does
                                                                                                                                  > > anyone know what is causing this and how to control it? Oh,
                                                                                                                                  since it
                                                                                                                                  > > seems to be a point made in other postings - we keep the tank
                                                                                                                                  light on
                                                                                                                                  > > only during daylight hours and have tried to keep it off more
                                                                                                                                  often,
                                                                                                                                  > > but that hasn't made any difference.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Thanks in advance for any help!
                                                                                                                                  > > Windy
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1706 From: windynyc1 Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algae Problems
                                                                                                                                  Joe,

                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the info! So, in your opinion, if we keep up with the
                                                                                                                                  regular water changes and checking the nitrates, nitrites and pH, it
                                                                                                                                  should resolve over time?

                                                                                                                                  Windy

                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                  <j.pascavage@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > Hi,
                                                                                                                                  > Regarding the problem with brown/dusty stuff (which, according to
                                                                                                                                  resources, is not algae, but a plankton/radiolaria), 'tho it's been a
                                                                                                                                  long time since I experienced the problem, and had that kind of input
                                                                                                                                  on the subject, I believe it's a temporary problem with newly set-up
                                                                                                                                  tanks, if proper conditions exist.
                                                                                                                                  > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1707 From: Tony Bittick Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                  I can speak from my own personal experience that active algae can mean
                                                                                                                                  higher than normal nitrates...



                                                                                                                                  At 08:12 PM 4/11/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >The room actually gets very little sunlight - it has only one high
                                                                                                                                  >window that is usually covered by a blind.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "H"
                                                                                                                                  ><mark@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > > is the tank in any sunlight, if so move it.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > H
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > > From: "windynyc1" <windynyc1@y...>
                                                                                                                                  > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                  > > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 9:35 PM
                                                                                                                                  > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > Hello! I have just joined this group in an attempt to find an
                                                                                                                                  >answer
                                                                                                                                  > > > to the problem we are having with our son's fish tank. This is my
                                                                                                                                  > > > first real foray into keeping fish and I am finding out exactly
                                                                                                                                  >how
                                                                                                                                  > > > much is involved!
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > So first some background - we have had a 10g tank that came with
                                                                                                                                  > > > filter and heater since February. We have fake plants and
                                                                                                                                  >seashells
                                                                                                                                  > > > and some gravel. The tank is inhabited by two neons, two tetras
                                                                                                                                  >and
                                                                                                                                  > > > one catfish. We purchased the catfish in an attempt to control
                                                                                                                                  >the
                                                                                                                                  > > > green algae that was growing on all surfaces. He did a great
                                                                                                                                  >job, but
                                                                                                                                  > > > after the last 1/4 water change, we started getting some kind of
                                                                                                                                  >algae
                                                                                                                                  > > > I guess, that doesn't adhere to anything but turns the water
                                                                                                                                  > > > greenish-brown. We tried algae-cide and did a complete water
                                                                                                                                  >change
                                                                                                                                  > > > when that didn't seem to be enough. The problem seemed gone for a
                                                                                                                                  >day
                                                                                                                                  > > > or two, but is now back and getting worse. The fish don't seem to
                                                                                                                                  > > > mind, but then, it's so cloudy that it is hard to see the fish!
                                                                                                                                  >Does
                                                                                                                                  > > > anyone know what is causing this and how to control it? Oh,
                                                                                                                                  >since it
                                                                                                                                  > > > seems to be a point made in other postings - we keep the tank
                                                                                                                                  >light on
                                                                                                                                  > > > only during daylight hours and have tried to keep it off more
                                                                                                                                  >often,
                                                                                                                                  > > > but that hasn't made any difference.
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > Thanks in advance for any help!
                                                                                                                                  > > > Windy
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1708 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algal Problems
                                                                                                                                      Windy,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                    I definetly remember reading that, and experienced the reality of it in my tank. The material mentioned that not direct light, but oblique light seems to enhance the environment, and it was mentioned that an area around the aquarium-glass at gravel-levelseems to be a constant location. If I remember it's on one of my book resources, I'll transcribe, or render specifics. Hope someone else on the list can add to this.
                                                                                                                                      Joe P.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1709 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: anyone in new england want.......
                                                                                                                                  Anyone in New England (in mass) want two young Siamese algae eaters????
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1710 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: anyone in new england want.......
                                                                                                                                  hi!,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  I am interested in the Siamese ALgae Eaters.  WHere in MA???  I am in South Eastern MA.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Rick
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1711 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: anyone in new england want.......
                                                                                                                                  I AM in Beverly.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1712 From: rca2745@aol.com Date: 4/11/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: anyone in new england want.......
                                                                                                                                  Hmmm, A bit of a hike from here. Would you consider shipping them(me paying for that of course)?
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  RIck
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1713 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/12/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Fish Fruit?
                                                                                                                                  Hi All,

                                                                                                                                  Has anybody fed Fruit to their Fish?

                                                                                                                                  Can the Fish have Fruit? I was thinking Apples or Watermelon, maybe
                                                                                                                                  grapes and bannanas?

                                                                                                                                  I've been giving the Fish Vegtables ever since the topic started
                                                                                                                                  awhile ago. Currently there are 8 juvinile Swordtails inside a
                                                                                                                                  Zuchinni half that they continue to hallow out, apparently not all
                                                                                                                                  fish like the rind. They all enjoy the tips of the broccoli flowerets.
                                                                                                                                  The fish seem to have no intrest in the Soy beans yet, but the peas
                                                                                                                                  and spinach are nibbled at w/ curiosity. I haven't got any cucumber
                                                                                                                                  or kale to try yet. Will they eat any other vegtables? Carrots,
                                                                                                                                  Cauliflower, etc...

                                                                                                                                  Are there any Vegtables that are BAD for Fish?

                                                                                                                                  I have a Bumble Bee Goby, Bettas, Guppies, Mollies, Platies,
                                                                                                                                  Swordtails, Plecos, SAE's, Oto's, Clown Loaches, several different
                                                                                                                                  kinds of little snails (Malaysian Trumpet, Ramshorn, etc...), Shrimp
                                                                                                                                  (Amano, Grass & Large unknown) and lots of fry in Planted Tanks.

                                                                                                                                  What other 'human' foods can fish have? Maybe Breads?

                                                                                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                                                                                  Aaron
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1714 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/12/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: fish to donate [was~Re: veggies for fish]
                                                                                                                                  Hi Erin,

                                                                                                                                  re: "...my tank has a lot more fish in it right now then I'd like...to
                                                                                                                                  drive a half hour to donate them to the pet shop that I finally found
                                                                                                                                  who would take them."

                                                                                                                                  What kind of fish do you have? Is there anybody else on this List
                                                                                                                                  from the Savannah, GA area that could adopt your extra fish? The LFS
                                                                                                                                  here gives me store credit for my extras, maybe they would consider
                                                                                                                                  it if you asked.

                                                                                                                                  Just some thoughts,
                                                                                                                                  Aaron

                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                                                                                                  VanKouwenberg" <celticmommy@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > My fish even eat the dark green rind. But then, my tank has a lot
                                                                                                                                  more fish
                                                                                                                                  > in it right now then I'd like. I haven't got the gas money at the
                                                                                                                                  moment to
                                                                                                                                  > drive a half hour to donate them to the pet shop that I finally
                                                                                                                                  found who
                                                                                                                                  > would take them.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1715 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/12/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                  Nim,

                                                                                                                                  do the vegs have to be blanced? Is raw bad?

                                                                                                                                  are there any aquatic plants that are good for fish to eat?

                                                                                                                                  re: "...growth of limnophylla..."

                                                                                                                                  what is limnophylla?

                                                                                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                                                                                  Aaron

                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                  Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > I do Blanch all vegetables I feed them. Never tried broccoli
                                                                                                                                  though, but I
                                                                                                                                  > guess they will like it.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Vegetable matter occasionally is good for all fish, though it may
                                                                                                                                  sometimes
                                                                                                                                  > come as a drawback if fish start to get similar taste in aquatic
                                                                                                                                  plants. My
                                                                                                                                  > small 25 gallon tank has a maddening growth of limnophylla and
                                                                                                                                  other 90
                                                                                                                                  > gallon has almost none. Just coz the fish have developed a taste
                                                                                                                                  for them
                                                                                                                                  > after I first fed them peas.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1716 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/12/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                  Aaron,

                                                                                                                                  I don't blanch cucumber. I Blanch only Lettuce as unblanched lettuce will
                                                                                                                                  not sink and it is a little tougher for the fish to eat. Blanching only
                                                                                                                                  makes it softer and helps it sink. I don't think unblanched stuff would be
                                                                                                                                  unsafe in anyway.

                                                                                                                                  Almost all aquatic plants can become fish food if they start to get a taste
                                                                                                                                  of it. Why I mentioned Limnophylla as coz some of my fish have developed its
                                                                                                                                  taste. People have reported things like Riccia, Hornwort, duckweed, cabomba
                                                                                                                                  etc are the ones that are most commonly eaten. Bus what I saw was that they
                                                                                                                                  can shred any plants to pieces including Anubias and echinodorus. My Keyhole
                                                                                                                                  cichlid got a taste of my beautiful echinodorus rose. Sword tail fry got the
                                                                                                                                  taste of anubias nana and I had to remove the plant from the fry tank.

                                                                                                                                  Aquatic plants may not have the full nutritional value as standard fish
                                                                                                                                  food, but it does provide a natural staple and lot of roughage I believe.
                                                                                                                                  As we all know that vegetable food is easier to digest then non-veg (what
                                                                                                                                  doctors say) I believe it helps clear the digestive system of the fish and
                                                                                                                                  help in many problems like Swim bladder, Stringy poops etc.

                                                                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                                                                  >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                  >From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt [mailto:massagetherapist@...]
                                                                                                                                  >Sent: 12 April 2004 11:21
                                                                                                                                  >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >Nim,
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >do the vegs have to be blanced? Is raw bad?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >are there any aquatic plants that are good for fish to eat?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >re: "...growth of limnophylla..."
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >what is limnophylla?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >Thanks,
                                                                                                                                  > Aaron
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                  >Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                  >> I do Blanch all vegetables I feed them. Never tried broccoli
                                                                                                                                  >though, but I
                                                                                                                                  >> guess they will like it.
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >> Vegetable matter occasionally is good for all fish, though it may
                                                                                                                                  >sometimes
                                                                                                                                  >> come as a drawback if fish start to get similar taste in aquatic
                                                                                                                                  >plants. My
                                                                                                                                  >> small 25 gallon tank has a maddening growth of limnophylla and
                                                                                                                                  >other 90
                                                                                                                                  >> gallon has almost none. Just coz the fish have developed a taste
                                                                                                                                  >for them
                                                                                                                                  >> after I first fed them peas.
                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                  >> Nim
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1717 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/12/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: fish to donate
                                                                                                                                  The fry are "fancy mollies" ... which just means they aren't black mollies.
                                                                                                                                  They have various color patterns ranging from silverish to gold and some
                                                                                                                                  areas that have black speckles. I think they are pretty.

                                                                                                                                  The larger stores don't want the fish at all, and the smaller store that I
                                                                                                                                  finally found just was willing to take them off our hands. She apparently
                                                                                                                                  has people bring in fry all the time so that they don't get eaten. Honestly,
                                                                                                                                  I don't NEED store credit. We've got our tank set up the way we like it, and
                                                                                                                                  the supplies that would need to be replenished, she doesn't carry.

                                                                                                                                  I don't think that anyone else in the group is in the area, because when the
                                                                                                                                  fry were first born I asked if anyone here was in the Savannah area that
                                                                                                                                  would like some mollie fry.

                                                                                                                                  I just keep close tabs on my water quality until I can take the fish to the
                                                                                                                                  store.

                                                                                                                                  Erin

                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                  What kind of fish do you have? Is there anybody else on this List
                                                                                                                                  from the Savannah, GA area that could adopt your extra fish? The LFS
                                                                                                                                  here gives me store credit for my extras, maybe they would consider
                                                                                                                                  it if you asked.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1718 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/12/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Is this a ture statement? My small tank (5 hex) eclipes. I can never
                                                                                                                                  get it to cycle ( I guess ) The ammonia levels are always high or in
                                                                                                                                  the middle range. I was wondering if I added a real plant if this
                                                                                                                                  would help.
                                                                                                                                  I have a blue Gourami, 1 snail, and small frog. Setup tank july 2003
                                                                                                                                  Started testing not until Nov of 2003 tried many things like adding
                                                                                                                                  ammonia lock and also tried daily water change for awhile (about
                                                                                                                                  aweek and half) didn't help... well helped alittle but not for long.
                                                                                                                                  I did get the ammonia down to 0.25(MG/) but only lasted about 4 days.
                                                                                                                                  I also even (about two months ago, may even 3 months ago) drain all
                                                                                                                                  water and took 5 gallons from cycled 40 gallon tank and filled it
                                                                                                                                  with that. The ammonia levels went up about a week later. I have no
                                                                                                                                  idea why it won't cycle or why I can't get the ammonia level to
                                                                                                                                  balance. I know the smaller the tank the hard it is. thanks for any
                                                                                                                                  help, O yes my change out water is perpared just like the large tank
                                                                                                                                  before adding to or clean days. I have no troubles with the 40.

                                                                                                                                  Sherrie
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1719 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/12/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                  What kind of filter/s are you using, and how often/much do you feed? Do you use a different ammonia test kit for the 5 hex?
                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  > Is this a ture statement? My small tank (5 hex) eclipes. I can never
                                                                                                                                  > get it to cycle ( I guess ) The ammonia levels are always high or in
                                                                                                                                  > the middle range. I was wondering if I added a real plant if this
                                                                                                                                  > would help.
                                                                                                                                  > I have a blue Gourami, 1 snail, and small frog. Setup tank july 2003
                                                                                                                                  > Started testing not until Nov of 2003 tried many things like adding
                                                                                                                                  > ammonia lock and also tried daily water change for awhile (about
                                                                                                                                  > aweek and half) didn't help... well helped alittle but not for long.
                                                                                                                                  > I did get the ammonia down to 0.25(MG/) but only lasted about 4 days.
                                                                                                                                  > I also even (about two months ago, may even 3 months ago) drain all
                                                                                                                                  > water and took 5 gallons from cycled 40 gallon tank and filled it
                                                                                                                                  > with that. The ammonia levels went up about a week later. I have no
                                                                                                                                  > idea why it won't cycle or why I can't get the ammonia level to
                                                                                                                                  > balance. I know the smaller the tank the hard it is. thanks for any
                                                                                                                                  > help, O yes my change out water is perpared just like the large tank

                                                                                                                                  > before adding to or clean days. I have no troubles with the 40.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1720 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/12/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Also what kind of ammonia levels are coming out of your tap water? Is you tab water treated with chloramine? (this will raise ammonia levels when you use chlorine removers). You large tank might have the bacteria space to accommodate the additional ammonia, but the small may not. Are you getting any Nitrite and Nitrate readings at all?

                                                                                                                                  Cheers,
                                                                                                                                  Tim




                                                                                                                                  On 13/4/04 12:27 PM, "j.pascavage@..." <j.pascavage@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                     Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                  What kind of filter/s are you using, and how often/much do you feed? Do you use a different ammonia test kit for the 5 hex?
                                                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  > Is this a ture statement? My small tank (5 hex) eclipes. I can never
                                                                                                                                  > get it to cycle ( I guess ) The ammonia levels are always high or in
                                                                                                                                  > the middle range. I was wondering if I added a real plant if this
                                                                                                                                  > would help.
                                                                                                                                  > I have a blue Gourami, 1 snail, and small frog. Setup tank july 2003
                                                                                                                                  > Started testing  not until Nov of 2003 tried many things like adding
                                                                                                                                  > ammonia lock and also tried daily water change for awhile (about
                                                                                                                                  > aweek and half) didn't help... well helped alittle but not for long.
                                                                                                                                  > I did get the ammonia down to 0.25(MG/) but only lasted about 4 days.
                                                                                                                                  > I also even (about two months ago, may even 3 months ago)  drain all
                                                                                                                                  > water and took 5 gallons from cycled 40 gallon tank and filled it
                                                                                                                                  > with that. The ammonia levels went up about a week later. I have no
                                                                                                                                  > idea why it won't cycle or why I can't get the ammonia level to
                                                                                                                                  > balance. I know the smaller the tank the hard it is. thanks for any
                                                                                                                                  > help, O yes my change out water is perpared just like the large tank

                                                                                                                                  > before adding to or clean days. I have no troubles with the 40.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  >



                                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1721 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/12/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ? Oh and in answer to your question, yes, plants will absorb and use ammonia and a heavily planted tank can show no ammonia even with a huge bio load. As long as the plants in the tank are growing... if they are just surviving they will do nothing. But heavy lighting and possibly co2 injection on a large bunch of stem plants (wisteria, other hygrophila, etc) that are fast growers can be used to use up excess waste products in the aquarium.

                                                                                                                                  Tim


                                                                                                                                  On 13/4/04 12:27 PM, "j.pascavage@..." <j.pascavage@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                     Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                  What kind of filter/s are you using, and how often/much do you feed? Do you use a different ammonia test kit for the 5 hex?
                                                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  > Is this a ture statement? My small tank (5 hex) eclipes. I can never
                                                                                                                                  > get it to cycle ( I guess ) The ammonia levels are always high or in
                                                                                                                                  > the middle range. I was wondering if I added a real plant if this
                                                                                                                                  > would help.
                                                                                                                                  > I have a blue Gourami, 1 snail, and small frog. Setup tank july 2003
                                                                                                                                  > Started testing  not until Nov of 2003 tried many things like adding
                                                                                                                                  > ammonia lock and also tried daily water change for awhile (about
                                                                                                                                  > aweek and half) didn't help... well helped alittle but not for long.
                                                                                                                                  > I did get the ammonia down to 0.25(MG/) but only lasted about 4 days.
                                                                                                                                  > I also even (about two months ago, may even 3 months ago)  drain all
                                                                                                                                  > water and took 5 gallons from cycled 40 gallon tank and filled it
                                                                                                                                  > with that. The ammonia levels went up about a week later. I have no
                                                                                                                                  > idea why it won't cycle or why I can't get the ammonia level to
                                                                                                                                  > balance. I know the smaller the tank the hard it is. thanks for any
                                                                                                                                  > help, O yes my change out water is perpared just like the large tank

                                                                                                                                  > before adding to or clean days. I have no troubles with the 40.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                  >



                                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1722 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/13/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Question on General Hardness
                                                                                                                                  I just measured the General Hardness of my aquarium for the first time (I
                                                                                                                                  thought I ordered the kH test but the general hardness is what showed up)
                                                                                                                                  and calculated a result of 60ppm.

                                                                                                                                  Is this a reasonable result?

                                                                                                                                  I have Corydorus aeneus, SAE's, Betta, Head & Tail Light Tetras.
                                                                                                                                  Plant wise I have Val's, Wisteria, Blue Strica, Riccia, and another
                                                                                                                                  hygrophila species.

                                                                                                                                  pH is 7.3 and I'm just starting DIY co2.

                                                                                                                                  Thanks
                                                                                                                                  Tim

                                                                                                                                  (sorry for the xpost for those in both lists, but I get good answers from
                                                                                                                                  both! :-)
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1723 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/13/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Joe

                                                                                                                                  The Eclipes has a bio wheel for a filter, I feed about 4 times a week
                                                                                                                                  3 of thoses days I feed flakes and the other day blood worms or
                                                                                                                                  brine shimp. And I use the same ammonia test kit for both of my tanks
                                                                                                                                  the hex 5 and 40.
                                                                                                                                  > What kind of filter/s are you using, and how often/much do you
                                                                                                                                  feed? Do you use a different ammonia test kit for the 5 hex?
                                                                                                                                  > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1724 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/13/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Tim

                                                                                                                                  There is no level of ammonia that comes out of the tap water. Also
                                                                                                                                  for the Nitrite its been around 0.25 ro 0.50 (MG/L) It has been as
                                                                                                                                  high as 2.0 (MG/L) but that was awhile back. I don't have a test kit
                                                                                                                                  for the Nitrate. What type of Lighting will I need for a live plant.

                                                                                                                                  > Also what kind of ammonia levels are coming out of your tap water?
                                                                                                                                  Is you
                                                                                                                                  > tab water treated with chloramine? (this will raise ammonia levels
                                                                                                                                  when you
                                                                                                                                  > use chlorine removers).

                                                                                                                                  Are you getting
                                                                                                                                  > any Nitrite and Nitrate readings at all?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                  > Tim
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1725 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/13/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  How big are your animals?
                                                                                                                                  > Joe
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > The Eclipes has a bio wheel for a filter, I feed about 4 times a week
                                                                                                                                  > 3 of thoses days I feed flakes and the other day blood worms or
                                                                                                                                  > brine shimp. And I use the same ammonia test kit for both of my tanks
                                                                                                                                  > the hex 5 and 40.
                                                                                                                                  > > What kind of filter/s are you using, and how often/much do you
                                                                                                                                  > feed? Do you use a different ammonia test kit for the 5 hex?
                                                                                                                                  > > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1726 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/13/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                  I'm a bit rusty on what little I know, and that's why my attempt to understand/diagnose is separated. You use the same ammo-test-kit for both your tanks. You feed 4 times a week. You have a bio-wheel.
                                                                                                                                  From that, it seems your bio-wheel could be inoperable, or your feeding too much. Could also be your little companions are large?
                                                                                                                                  Why don't you feed daily?
                                                                                                                                  Joe
                                                                                                                                  > Joe
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > The Eclipes has a bio wheel for a filter, I feed about 4 times a week
                                                                                                                                  > 3 of thoses days I feed flakes and the other day blood worms or
                                                                                                                                  > brine shimp. And I use the same ammonia test kit for both of my tanks
                                                                                                                                  > the hex 5 and 40.
                                                                                                                                  > > What kind of filter/s are you using, and how often/much do you
                                                                                                                                  > feed? Do you use a different ammonia test kit for the 5 hex?
                                                                                                                                  > > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1727 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/13/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Joe

                                                                                                                                  The blue Gourami is about 3 inches and small frog is alittle bit
                                                                                                                                  bigger then your thumb nail and snail is if you put your pointer
                                                                                                                                  finger and thumb into a circle around or little smaller I'm a lady
                                                                                                                                  with small hands. I really didn't think that would be too many
                                                                                                                                  critters. Its a hex 5 eclipes tank and they "say" that being a eclipe
                                                                                                                                  with the bio wheel you can have around 7 inches of fishies. (who
                                                                                                                                  knows) but with the frog, snail and gourami that still only 5 1/2
                                                                                                                                  inches. I bought the tank for my beta and added the snail for the
                                                                                                                                  algae, and frog cause he was cute. Then when my beta died, my brother
                                                                                                                                  gave me the blue Gourami named "killer" because he was so mean and
                                                                                                                                  killed his other fish. I added him to my larger tank but he also
                                                                                                                                  killed another Gourami of mine. So thats why he is in there alone.
                                                                                                                                  (can't play well with others) Anyways Nobody has died in that because
                                                                                                                                  of the ammonia levels (well I think) unless thats why the beta died?
                                                                                                                                  Its always been a problem with ammonia and I guess I just want to see
                                                                                                                                  that big zero on the ammonia to know that I'm doing well. Also I
                                                                                                                                  would like that tank to turn into a hospital tank or nursery tank,
                                                                                                                                  Like right now I have week old swordneons in my large tank that I
                                                                                                                                  would like to put in there when they get older and take "killer" out
                                                                                                                                  and give back to my brother. But with the ammonia being the way it is
                                                                                                                                  I just can't. I thought of even replacing the bio wheel and clean the
                                                                                                                                  tank all the way down and start over with so it can cycle. But right
                                                                                                                                  now I'm not sure. Thanks for your help it just might one of things
                                                                                                                                  and being the tank is so small it might just never cycle right. Oh
                                                                                                                                  yes I only feed 4 days aweek becuase of the ammonia levels and also I
                                                                                                                                  have read (here on the board its good to let your fish clean out)
                                                                                                                                  Thanks again Sherrie
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1728 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/13/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: do you think real plants help ammonia troubles ?
                                                                                                                                  Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                  Considering you plan to return the Gourami,that should be conducive to lowering the ammo and nitrite level. If you've used chemicals regularly for the period since 2003, your potential for cycling a biological filter is lowered. Ammolock does'nt allow your ammonia to reach bacteria, and no ammonia means no nitrite, so if the ammolock dissipates in concentration because of water changes, etc., and is neutralized by binding with ammonia, you may be STARTING a bio-cycle after each time you use the stuff. If you used other chemicals, depending on which and how much, you could have killed your beneficial bacteria. I've had 4 and 5 gallon tanks, but have always used undergravel filters, with a small hng-on and can't say I've had a consistant problem with ammonia or nitrite. Also, if you overfeed in your 4X a week standard, I'm sure you have heard that can cause an ammo/nitrite problem. Over use of chemicals is one of the worst things for fish, plants and biological filter organisms. Do you properly rinse your bio-wheel?
                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                  > Joe
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > The blue Gourami is about 3 inches and small frog is alittle bit
                                                                                                                                  > bigger then your thumb nail and snail is if you put your pointer
                                                                                                                                  > finger and thumb into a circle around or little smaller I'm a lady
                                                                                                                                  > with small hands. I really didn't think that would be too many
                                                                                                                                  > critters. Its a hex 5 eclipes tank and they "say" that being a eclipe
                                                                                                                                  > with the bio wheel you can have around 7 inches of fishies. (who
                                                                                                                                  > knows) but with the frog, snail and gourami that still only 5 1/2
                                                                                                                                  > inches. I bought the tank for my beta and added the snail for the
                                                                                                                                  > algae, and frog cause he was cute. Then when my beta died, my brother
                                                                                                                                  > gave me the blue Gourami named "killer" because he was so mean and
                                                                                                                                  > killed his other fish. I added him to my larger tank but he also
                                                                                                                                  > killed another Gourami of mine. So thats why he is in there alone.
                                                                                                                                  > (can't play well with others) Anyways Nobody has died in that because
                                                                                                                                  > of the ammonia levels (well I think) unless thats why the beta died?

                                                                                                                                  > Its always been a problem with ammonia and I guess I just want to see
                                                                                                                                  > that big zero on the ammonia to know that I'm doing well. Also I
                                                                                                                                  > would like that tank to turn into a hospital tank or nursery tank,
                                                                                                                                  > Like right now I have week old swordneons in my large tank that I
                                                                                                                                  > would like to put in there when they get older and take "killer" out
                                                                                                                                  > and give back to my brother. But with the ammonia being the way it is
                                                                                                                                  > I just can't. I thought of even replacing the bio wheel and clean the
                                                                                                                                  > tank all the way down and start over with so it can cycle. But right
                                                                                                                                  > now I'm not sure. Thanks for your help it just might one of things
                                                                                                                                  > and being the tank is so small it might just never cycle right. Oh
                                                                                                                                  > yes I only feed 4 days aweek becuase of the ammonia levels and also I
                                                                                                                                  > have read (here on the board its good to let your fish clean out)
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks again Sherrie
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1729 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/13/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: help
                                                                                                                                  HI!

                                                                                                                                  I am a newbie, and I am planning to set up a 10 gallon aquarium.
                                                                                                                                  I am planning a well-planted aquarium with community fishes.
                                                                                                                                  I am planning to have barbs in it.
                                                                                                                                  Do you have any suggestions what kind of barbs should I keep?
                                                                                                                                  How many barbs can I keep in a 10 gallon aquarium?

                                                                                                                                  Thanks.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1730 From: fcatacutan Date: 4/14/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Cleaning dirty ornaments ...
                                                                                                                                  Although I still performed weekly partial water changes and made sure
                                                                                                                                  that the water conditions were still ideal for my platys, I was not
                                                                                                                                  paying too much attention to the ornaments within my tank,
                                                                                                                                  specifically the artificial coral that they love to swim
                                                                                                                                  around/through.

                                                                                                                                  Now, I have a rock that is stained with droppings/dirt. Rinsing it
                                                                                                                                  off does not seem to remove the stains. Scrubbing the rock does not
                                                                                                                                  help either. Is there a way to remove the dirt? Or, should I just
                                                                                                                                  concede that fact that the rock is going to remain stained? Any
                                                                                                                                  suggestions/tricks would be greatly appreciated.
                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1731 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/14/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                                  Hi benedick - Welcome to the group !

                                                                                                                                  Will u be keeping only barbs or plan to add on other
                                                                                                                                  fishes as well. If u go by the 1"of fish per gallon
                                                                                                                                  rule then if its only barbs u plan u can keep about 10
                                                                                                                                  - 12fishes IMO.

                                                                                                                                  Provided you dedicate more time towards water changes.

                                                                                                                                  But please make sure you add 4 fishes only at a time
                                                                                                                                  that is to say first 4 then after about 6 - 10 days 2
                                                                                                                                  more and after about 20 days 4 more......

                                                                                                                                  But before u add any fishes make sure your tank is
                                                                                                                                  properly cycled and all the water parameters are
                                                                                                                                  perferct and under control !!

                                                                                                                                  I would suggest u go in for tetras cause you can fit
                                                                                                                                  in more than 12 - 15 tetras in a 10gal planted tank
                                                                                                                                  and look good with drift wood and lots of plants. They
                                                                                                                                  like to be in groups of minimum 6.

                                                                                                                                  I have

                                                                                                                                  cardinal tetras
                                                                                                                                  black neon tetras
                                                                                                                                  neons
                                                                                                                                  serpae tetras
                                                                                                                                  emperor tetras.. these are small and look cool in
                                                                                                                                  school ..

                                                                                                                                  Hope this helps.....SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                  --- "Benedick Mark N. Chan" <bmchan@...>
                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > HI!
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I am a newbie, and I am planning to set up a 10
                                                                                                                                  > gallon aquarium.
                                                                                                                                  > I am planning a well-planted aquarium with community
                                                                                                                                  > fishes.
                                                                                                                                  > I am planning to have barbs in it.
                                                                                                                                  > Do you have any suggestions what kind of barbs
                                                                                                                                  > should I keep?
                                                                                                                                  > How many barbs can I keep in a 10 gallon aquarium?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >





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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1732 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/14/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                                  Thanks Sunny!!
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Actually, I am still clueless on what type of fish to keep. But I'll keep tetras into consideration. ^_^
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  I went to the petshop yesterday and I am impressed with hatchetfishes.Is it fine if I include, say, 10 tetras + 2 hatchetfishes and a bottom dweller?
                                                                                                                                  Do hatchetfishes school?
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  And... by the way... our neighboring petshop only offers these aquatic plants.
                                                                                                                                  1. Water wisperia
                                                                                                                                  2. indian fern
                                                                                                                                  3. dwarf bacopa
                                                                                                                                  4. red ludwiga
                                                                                                                                  5. amazon sword
                                                                                                                                  6. elephant ear
                                                                                                                                  7. marble queen
                                                                                                                                  8. green wave
                                                                                                                                  9. red wave
                                                                                                                                  10. dwarf lotus
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  do you have any suggestion which plants should I buy?
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  Thanks.
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:25 PM
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] help

                                                                                                                                  Hi benedick - Welcome to the group !

                                                                                                                                  Will u be keeping only barbs or plan to add on other
                                                                                                                                  fishes as well. If u go by the 1"of fish per gallon
                                                                                                                                  rule then if its only barbs u plan u can keep about 10
                                                                                                                                  - 12fishes IMO.

                                                                                                                                  Provided you dedicate more time towards water changes.

                                                                                                                                  But please make sure you add 4 fishes only at a time
                                                                                                                                  that is to say first 4 then after about 6 - 10 days 2
                                                                                                                                  more and after about 20 days 4 more......

                                                                                                                                  But before u add any fishes make sure your tank is
                                                                                                                                  properly cycled and all the water parameters are
                                                                                                                                  perferct and under control !!

                                                                                                                                  I would suggest u go in for tetras cause you can fit
                                                                                                                                  in more than 12 - 15 tetras in a 10gal planted tank
                                                                                                                                  and look good with drift wood and lots of plants. They
                                                                                                                                  like to be in groups of minimum 6.

                                                                                                                                  I have

                                                                                                                                  cardinal tetras
                                                                                                                                  black neon tetras
                                                                                                                                  neons
                                                                                                                                  serpae tetras
                                                                                                                                  emperor tetras.. these are small and look cool in
                                                                                                                                  school ..

                                                                                                                                  Hope this helps.....SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                  --- "Benedick Mark N. Chan" <bmchan@...>
                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > HI!
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I am a newbie, and I am planning to set up a 10
                                                                                                                                  > gallon aquarium.
                                                                                                                                  > I am planning a well-planted aquarium with community
                                                                                                                                  > fishes.
                                                                                                                                  > I am planning to have barbs in it.
                                                                                                                                  > Do you have any suggestions what kind of barbs
                                                                                                                                  > should I keep?
                                                                                                                                  > How many barbs can I keep in a 10 gallon aquarium?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >



                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                  __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1733 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/14/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: help

                                                                                                                                  Mark,

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Water Wisteria, & Red Ludwigia are very fast growers in the right conditions. I have not had success with Indian fern but in good conditions for it, it is also very fast.

                                                                                                                                  Bacopa has the ability to grow emerged and flower, hence will be a good addition, but make sure it has enough room to grow.

                                                                                                                                  Swords are very hardy and do good in almost any condition, but given a good substrate, they can take over an entire tank… which is in a way good and bad both. But it’s a very good starter plant.

                                                                                                                                  I don’t know about the others, but they seem more like bog plants rather then true aquatic except for the Lotus. Lotus may take some time to establish.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  What you need is a combination of looks and fast grower plants with a proper arrangement. In a 10 gallon, if you have 4-5 amazon swords, 4 Wisteria, 4 Ludwigia and all 3 growing good, you will be very comfortable with stocking levels.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Cherry barbs are a good option for a small tank, so are tiger barbs and Gold barbs, but all of these prefer to be in a group. Especially Tigers, if you have only 1 or 2 tigers, that can be a disaster.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Tetras are also good, but some will depend on what type of water you get. You cannot keep cardinals in hard alkaline water. (Period). Hatchets too prefer soft acidic water, but some hatches can do. Neons along the years have been adapted to accept moderately hard and moderately alkaline water, but they are much happier in soft acidic. Other then these, the Phantoms, Serpae, Black widow etc. will go with any water.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  So, first get your water tested to see what you can accommodate the best and then go around thinking as to what fish you want. This is important as you want to get the fish that suits your water rather then creating the water that suits your fish.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Other then the barbs and tetras, you are also open to Livebearers, Rasboras, Rainbow fish, Danios etc. if water permits, even south American cichlids, Killi fish, Pencils, etc. let us know your water’s GH, KH, PH and Nitrates, we will be able to suggest a good colourfull combination to go with your plants.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  I have sometimes kept almost 30 fish in a 10 gallon planted tank with regular water changes.. but that was when I was a new comer to the hobby. Now, I would not exceed 20 despite excessive plants.

                                                                                                                                  http://www.nimmat.com:81/latest/ are some pics of my planted tanks.. camera is not very good but will give you an idea as to how overstocked my tanks are.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  As for bottom dwellers, I vote Corydoras rather then loaches for a 10 gallon as some loaches do have a tendency to go nasty. I am currently experiencing this with Hora’s loach.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                  From: Benedick Mark N. Chan [mailto:bmchan@...]
                                                                                                                                  Sent: 14 April 2004 09:56
                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] help

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Thanks Sunny!!

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Actually, I am still clueless on what type of fish to keep. But I'll keep tetras into consideration. ^_^

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  I went to the petshop yesterday and I am impressed with hatchetfishes.Is it fine if I include, say, 10 tetras + 2 hatchetfishes and a bottom dweller?

                                                                                                                                  Do hatchetfishes school?

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  And... by the way... our neighboring petshop only offers these aquatic plants.

                                                                                                                                  1. Water wisperia

                                                                                                                                  2. indian fern

                                                                                                                                  3. dwarf bacopa

                                                                                                                                  4. red ludwiga

                                                                                                                                  5. amazon sword

                                                                                                                                  6. elephant ear

                                                                                                                                  7. marble queen

                                                                                                                                  8. green wave

                                                                                                                                  9. red wave

                                                                                                                                  10. dwarf lotus

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  do you have any suggestion which plants should I buy?

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Thanks.

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                  From: sunil kamath

                                                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:25 PM

                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] help

                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                  Hi benedick - Welcome to the group !

                                                                                                                                  Will u be keeping only barbs or plan to add on other
                                                                                                                                  fishes as well. If u go by the 1"of fish per gallon
                                                                                                                                  rule then if its only barbs u plan u can keep about 10
                                                                                                                                  - 12fishes IMO .

                                                                                                                                  Provided you dedicate more time towards water changes.

                                                                                                                                  But please make sure you add 4 fishes only at a time
                                                                                                                                  that is to say first 4 then after about 6 - 10 days 2
                                                                                                                                  more and after about 20 days 4 more......

                                                                                                                                  But before u add any fishes make sure your tank is
                                                                                                                                  properly cycled and all the water parameters are
                                                                                                                                  perferct and under control !!

                                                                                                                                  I would suggest u go in for tetras cause you can fit
                                                                                                                                  in more than 12 - 15 tetras in a 10gal planted tank
                                                                                                                                  and look good with drift wood and lots of plants. They
                                                                                                                                  like to be in groups of minimum 6.

                                                                                                                                  I have

                                                                                                                                  cardinal tetras
                                                                                                                                  black neon tetras
                                                                                                                                  neons
                                                                                                                                  serpae tetras
                                                                                                                                  emperor tetras.. these are small and look cool in
                                                                                                                                  school ..

                                                                                                                                  Hope this helps.....SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                  --- "Benedick Mark N. Chan" <bmchan@...>
                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > HI!
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I am a newbie, and I am planning to set up a 10
                                                                                                                                  > gallon aquarium.
                                                                                                                                  > I am planning a well-planted aquarium with community
                                                                                                                                  > fishes.
                                                                                                                                  > I am planning to have barbs in it.
                                                                                                                                  > Do you have any suggestions what kind of barbs
                                                                                                                                  > should I keep?
                                                                                                                                  > How many barbs can I keep in a 10 gallon aquarium?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >



                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                  __________________________________
                                                                                                                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1734 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/14/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                                  HI,

                                                                                                                                  I am also relatively new to fish keeping. Hence
                                                                                                                                  furnishing the below details from what i had rcvd..

                                                                                                                                  Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                  That's perhaps one of the best ways to start up a
                                                                                                                                  tank. Besides the
                                                                                                                                  plants that have alredy been mentioned, using some
                                                                                                                                  fast growing
                                                                                                                                  plants will also avoid many of the cycling spikes as
                                                                                                                                  they will
                                                                                                                                  consume most of the ammonia. Plants such as Hygrophila
                                                                                                                                  siamensis,
                                                                                                                                  watersprite, sunset hygro, hornwart and frogbit
                                                                                                                                  (floating plant) are
                                                                                                                                  just a few examples. Other plants you can consider are
                                                                                                                                  many
                                                                                                                                  aponogetons such as the Ozelot Sword or similar, many
                                                                                                                                  crypts also do
                                                                                                                                  well in low light, tiger lotus, dwarf saggittaria as a
                                                                                                                                  grass-like
                                                                                                                                  ground cover for example. There are many out there,
                                                                                                                                  most times
                                                                                                                                  however you need to find them online or trade with
                                                                                                                                  another hobbist as
                                                                                                                                  fish stores rarely carry a good selection, at times
                                                                                                                                  they even sell
                                                                                                                                  bog plants for aquatic plants which will die within a
                                                                                                                                  month or so.

                                                                                                                                  Ideally such a tank will grow these plants well with
                                                                                                                                  two 32W
                                                                                                                                  fluorescent bulbs, or two 40W fluorescents. Your
                                                                                                                                  choice may be
                                                                                                                                  slimmer if you have less than this. Java ferns, moss
                                                                                                                                  and anybias will
                                                                                                                                  grow even with a single tube.

                                                                                                                                  You can look at www.tropica.com for a list of plants
                                                                                                                                  that are good in
                                                                                                                                  low lighting, they allow to search based on amount of
                                                                                                                                  light (click
                                                                                                                                  advanced search). You can also see the plants I have
                                                                                                                                  offered in the
                                                                                                                                  past for the low light raffle:
                                                                                                                                  www.gpodio.com/aqua/raffle

                                                                                                                                  Hope that helps
                                                                                                                                  Giancarlo Podio



                                                                                                                                  --- "Benedick Mark N. Chan" <bmchan@...>
                                                                                                                                  wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks Sunny!!
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Actually, I am still clueless on what type of fish
                                                                                                                                  > to keep. But I'll keep tetras into consideration.
                                                                                                                                  > ^_^
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I went to the petshop yesterday and I am impressed
                                                                                                                                  > with hatchetfishes.Is it fine if I include, say, 10
                                                                                                                                  > tetras + 2 hatchetfishes and a bottom dweller?
                                                                                                                                  > Do hatchetfishes school?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > And... by the way... our neighboring petshop only
                                                                                                                                  > offers these aquatic plants.
                                                                                                                                  > 1. Water wisperia
                                                                                                                                  > 2. indian fern
                                                                                                                                  > 3. dwarf bacopa
                                                                                                                                  > 4. red ludwiga
                                                                                                                                  > 5. amazon sword
                                                                                                                                  > 6. elephant ear
                                                                                                                                  > 7. marble queen
                                                                                                                                  > 8. green wave
                                                                                                                                  > 9. red wave
                                                                                                                                  > 10. dwarf lotus
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > do you have any suggestion which plants should I
                                                                                                                                  > buy?
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                  > From: sunil kamath
                                                                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:25 PM
                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] help
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Hi benedick - Welcome to the group !
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Will u be keeping only barbs or plan to add on
                                                                                                                                  > other
                                                                                                                                  > fishes as well. If u go by the 1"of fish per
                                                                                                                                  > gallon
                                                                                                                                  > rule then if its only barbs u plan u can keep
                                                                                                                                  > about 10
                                                                                                                                  > - 12fishes IMO.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Provided you dedicate more time towards water
                                                                                                                                  > changes.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > But please make sure you add 4 fishes only at a
                                                                                                                                  > time
                                                                                                                                  > that is to say first 4 then after about 6 - 10
                                                                                                                                  > days 2
                                                                                                                                  > more and after about 20 days 4 more......
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > But before u add any fishes make sure your tank is
                                                                                                                                  > properly cycled and all the water parameters are
                                                                                                                                  > perferct and under control !!
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I would suggest u go in for tetras cause you can
                                                                                                                                  > fit
                                                                                                                                  > in more than 12 - 15 tetras in a 10gal planted
                                                                                                                                  > tank
                                                                                                                                  > and look good with drift wood and lots of plants.
                                                                                                                                  > They
                                                                                                                                  > like to be in groups of minimum 6.
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > I have
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > cardinal tetras
                                                                                                                                  > black neon tetras
                                                                                                                                  > neons
                                                                                                                                  > serpae tetras
                                                                                                                                  > emperor tetras.. these are small and look cool in
                                                                                                                                  > school ..
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > Hope this helps.....SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                  > --- "Benedick Mark N. Chan"
                                                                                                                                  > <bmchan@...>
                                                                                                                                  > wrote:
                                                                                                                                  > > HI!
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > I am a newbie, and I am planning to set up a 10
                                                                                                                                  > > gallon aquarium.
                                                                                                                                  > > I am planning a well-planted aquarium with
                                                                                                                                  > community
                                                                                                                                  > > fishes.
                                                                                                                                  > > I am planning to have barbs in it.
                                                                                                                                  > > Do you have any suggestions what kind of barbs
                                                                                                                                  > > should I keep?
                                                                                                                                  > > How many barbs can I keep in a 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                  > aquarium?
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                  > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                  > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                  > email to:
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                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1735 From: Short Jonathan Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                  Subject: launching oscars
                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                    You may find this hard to beleive but it's the truth!
                                                                                                                                    Last night I opened the lid of aquarium and both my tiger oscars (the tank
                                                                                                                                    is still in it's early days) came to the top waiting for some nosh, as usual
                                                                                                                                    they were quite excitable.
                                                                                                                                    I looked in the water nad to my surprise, one of them launched out of the
                                                                                                                                    tank, literally shot out of the water, it did'nt flip out if you get me.
                                                                                                                                    Hoesntly, jumped, like it had even thought about it before hand.
                                                                                                                                    Thankfully enough he's fine now. And swimming like nothing ever happened.

                                                                                                                                    Are oscars jumpers? Should I be careful in future? I honestly could'nt
                                                                                                                                    beleive it.
                                                                                                                                    I think they're rabid!
                                                                                                                                    Would'nt surprise me!
                                                                                                                                    Any ideas anyone?


                                                                                                                                    Jonny Short
                                                                                                                                    Avalon Court
                                                                                                                                    Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                                                    3rd Floor
                                                                                                                                    <mailto:Jonathan.short@churchill.com> Jonathan.short@churchill.com




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                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1736 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: launching oscars
                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 4/15/2004 2:00:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jonathan.short@... writes:
                                                                                                                                    Are oscars jumpers? Should I be careful in future? I honestly could'nt
                                                                                                                                    beleive it.
                                                                                                                                    I think they're rabid!
                                                                                                                                    Would'nt surprise me!
                                                                                                                                    Any ideas anyone?


                                                                                                                                    Jonny Short
                                                                                                                                    When I had a pair, my larger one launched about 4 inches above the water and grabbed my index finger when I wasn't looking.  Surprised the hell right out of me.
                                                                                                                                    And yes, they can jump, sounds like they were being there usual greedy selves and want to be fed.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Mike
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1737 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: launching oscars
                                                                                                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] launching oscars I had a rather large oscar in the past that took a disliking to my (now) wife, Emma. The fish used to flare/flair at Emma every time she walked past the tank. One day she was looking over the tank and Winnie (the oscar) launched out of the tank and latched onto Emma’s nose before going over her shoulder and hitting the ground.

                                                                                                                                    I saw the whole thing, and was terribly worried of course! I jumped up and put Winnie back in the tank and she was okay fortunately :-)

                                                                                                                                    Emma was okay once she stopped screaming :-)

                                                                                                                                    In Summary, Oscars JUMP!
                                                                                                                                    Cheers,
                                                                                                                                    Tim




                                                                                                                                    On 15/4/04 7:06 PM, "Deenerz@..." <Deenerz@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 4/15/2004 2:00:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jonathan.short@... writes:
                                                                                                                                    Are oscars jumpers? Should I be careful in future? I honestly could'nt
                                                                                                                                    beleive it.
                                                                                                                                    I think they're rabid!
                                                                                                                                    Would'nt surprise me!
                                                                                                                                    Any ideas anyone?


                                                                                                                                    Jonny Short
                                                                                                                                    When I had a pair, my larger one launched about 4 inches above the water and grabbed my index finger when I wasn't looking.  Surprised the hell right out of me.
                                                                                                                                    And yes, they can jump, sounds like they were being there usual greedy selves and want to be fed.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Mike


                                                                                                                                    Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1738 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                    Fish all seem to be okay. One tetra has some red around it's stomach and the
                                                                                                                                    points where the fins join the body, I'm not sure if it's anything yet. I've
                                                                                                                                    added some melafix, because I was intending to anyway and I figure it wont
                                                                                                                                    hurt...

                                                                                                                                    Plant growth seems to be doing very well. All the plants are pearling to
                                                                                                                                    some extent, not rapidly but they all have O2 bubbles under their leaves...

                                                                                                                                    Fish seem bright and happy. Betta recognises me, and follows me around the
                                                                                                                                    tank wherever I go, not afraid of anything that thing!.

                                                                                                                                    SAE's having so far done a good job, I noticed some green algae showing up
                                                                                                                                    on some of the higher leaves, I'll see what happens....

                                                                                                                                    My CO2 test kit showed 60ppm CO2 - I'm starting to doubt it's accuracy...

                                                                                                                                    Temp = 26
                                                                                                                                    pH = 6.6
                                                                                                                                    NH4 = 0
                                                                                                                                    NO2 = slightly pink, but less than 1ppm.
                                                                                                                                    NO3 was less than 5ppm
                                                                                                                                    Fe = 0.5 (although I added a fert just after the test)
                                                                                                                                    KH = 80ppm. = 4.46 deg dH

                                                                                                                                    I have not yet done a water change. (4 weeks) According to the pH/KH chart,
                                                                                                                                    I should have about 30ppm CO2 at the moment, I kinda find it hard to
                                                                                                                                    believe???? Seeing as there is just a small stream of CO2 bubbles bubbling
                                                                                                                                    through an airstone..

                                                                                                                                    I'm still debating another 1/8 tsp of Sodium Bicarbonate not sure, I'll test
                                                                                                                                    in the morning and see if it's still 80...

                                                                                                                                    I'm planning on rearranging the tank a bit this w/e, probably best to put
                                                                                                                                    the fish in a bucket with the heater?

                                                                                                                                    Thanks for any advice.
                                                                                                                                    Tim
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1739 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                    Great Tim.

                                                                                                                                    According to calculations, PH 6.6 and KH 80ppm, it calculates CO2 to 35ppm.
                                                                                                                                    Which is high and maybe not comfortable for fish. The CO2 test kit is
                                                                                                                                    probably giving wrong reading. The test calculations are also not all that
                                                                                                                                    accurate though as I think it calculates the potential amount of CO2 that
                                                                                                                                    should be present. With Bicarbonate addition, I think things will vary from
                                                                                                                                    standard.

                                                                                                                                    How are you diffusing CO2? Just by an Airstone? I would not have thought
                                                                                                                                    that an airstone will be able to diffuse so much CO2 in the tank. With a
                                                                                                                                    powerhead and a diffuser, along with pressurized CO2, I still have low CO2
                                                                                                                                    amounts. KH calculates at 2 and PH 6.6 - CO2 = 15

                                                                                                                                    Have a look at the Windows calculator
                                                                                                                                    http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm

                                                                                                                                    Nim


                                                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                    >From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                    >Sent: 15 April 2004 10:56
                                                                                                                                    >To: aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com;
                                                                                                                                    >FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >Fish all seem to be okay. One tetra has some red around it's stomach and
                                                                                                                                    >the
                                                                                                                                    >points where the fins join the body, I'm not sure if it's anything yet.
                                                                                                                                    >I've
                                                                                                                                    >added some melafix, because I was intending to anyway and I figure it wont
                                                                                                                                    >hurt...
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >Plant growth seems to be doing very well. All the plants are pearling to
                                                                                                                                    >some extent, not rapidly but they all have O2 bubbles under their leaves...
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >Fish seem bright and happy. Betta recognises me, and follows me around the
                                                                                                                                    >tank wherever I go, not afraid of anything that thing!.
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >SAE's having so far done a good job, I noticed some green algae showing up
                                                                                                                                    >on some of the higher leaves, I'll see what happens....
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >My CO2 test kit showed 60ppm CO2 - I'm starting to doubt it's accuracy...
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >Temp = 26
                                                                                                                                    >pH = 6.6
                                                                                                                                    >NH4 = 0
                                                                                                                                    >NO2 = slightly pink, but less than 1ppm.
                                                                                                                                    >NO3 was less than 5ppm
                                                                                                                                    >Fe = 0.5 (although I added a fert just after the test)
                                                                                                                                    >KH = 80ppm. = 4.46 deg dH
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >I have not yet done a water change. (4 weeks) According to the pH/KH chart,
                                                                                                                                    >I should have about 30ppm CO2 at the moment, I kinda find it hard to
                                                                                                                                    >believe???? Seeing as there is just a small stream of CO2 bubbles bubbling
                                                                                                                                    >through an airstone..
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >I'm still debating another 1/8 tsp of Sodium Bicarbonate not sure, I'll
                                                                                                                                    >test
                                                                                                                                    >in the morning and see if it's still 80...
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >I'm planning on rearranging the tank a bit this w/e, probably best to put
                                                                                                                                    >the fish in a bucket with the heater?
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >Thanks for any advice.
                                                                                                                                    >Tim
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1740 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] General Tank Update: On 15/4/04 8:21 PM, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                    Great Tim.

                                                                                                                                    According to calculations, PH 6.6 and KH 80ppm, it calculates CO2 to 35ppm.
                                                                                                                                    Which is high and maybe not comfortable for fish. The CO2 test kit is
                                                                                                                                    probably giving wrong reading.

                                                                                                                                    Yep, it was giving high readings even without CO2 addition so I think I’ll  put that kit down to crap.

                                                                                                                                    The test calculations are also not all that
                                                                                                                                    accurate though as I think it calculates the potential amount of CO2 that
                                                                                                                                    should be present. With Bicarbonate addition, I think things will vary from
                                                                                                                                    standard.

                                                                                                                                    As in 60ppm is the saturation point of my CO2 with the current chemical makeup of my water?

                                                                                                                                    How are you diffusing CO2? Just by an Airstone? I would not have thought
                                                                                                                                    that an airstone will be able to diffuse so much CO2 in the tank. With a
                                                                                                                                    powerhead and a diffuser, along with pressurized CO2, I still have low CO2
                                                                                                                                    amounts. KH calculates at 2 and PH 6.6 - CO2 = 15


                                                                                                                                    Yes just by an airstone, and I wouldn’t have thought so either :-( I guess it is a very small tank (8gal, bout 35 litres) so it wouldn’t take much CO2 to increase the ppm significantly I suppose. There also isn’t any surface agitation to speak of.. But yes I was surprised, and considering I was going to add the CO2 into the powerhead, I think I’ll hold off on that idea for a bit until the water has stabilised a little bit and I can get some more reasonable results.

                                                                                                                                    I’m not sure what I should do yet. I would have hoped that I would get more pearling than I have with that amount of CO2, but maybe the plants need more time??? Or more light... They have 2x8 watt T5’s.. dunno.

                                                                                                                                    Have a look at the Windows calculator
                                                                                                                                    http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm

                                                                                                                                    Lol, I’m on a Mac, but I have virtual PC so I’ll give it a spin :-)


                                                                                                                                    I’m also very concerned about a tetra which has developed red streaks along it’s gills, find joins and stomach lining.. I’m concerned about septacemia, although I’m not sure why this fish would have it (the water conditions appear to be good) so I might try some antibiotics, but I’m concerned about infecting other fish :-( :-( and at the same time that I could just be being paranoid. I’ll try to grab a photo later and stick it up somewhere...

                                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                                    Tim


                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1741 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] General Tank Update:



                                                                                                                                    I’m also very concerned about a tetra which has developed red streaks along it’s gills, find joins and stomach lining.. I’m concerned about septacemia, although I’m not sure why this fish would have it (the water conditions appear to be good) so I might try some antibiotics, but I’m concerned about infecting other fish :-( :-( and at the same time that I could just be being paranoid. I’ll try to grab a photo later and stick it up somewhere...

                                                                                                                                    --

                                                                                                                                    Just following-up. I read that this is usually from an internal infection which can spend a long time making the fish look swollen before showing up as blood streaks. This fish has been swollen since I purchased it. I figured there was either distinct male/female differences in head/tail light tetras or the fish was gravid when I purchased it. I’m now thinking that’s it’s probably a bacterial infection.

                                                                                                                                    (I’m starting to NOT be happy with the LFS I purchased these fish from – but maybe it’s just a bad batch).

                                                                                                                                    I’ll have to treat the tank I guess with some antibiotics and also some antibiotic food... I don’t have another tank to separate the fish into :-(.

                                                                                                                                    I’ll have to find out what I can do....

                                                                                                                                    Any experience with this anyone?

                                                                                                                                    Thanks
                                                                                                                                    Tim


                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1742 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] General Tank Update:

                                                                                                                                    Well Tim. Firstly, it is not 60ppm CO2. The test kit is wrong in every aspect. As per calculations, it is 35ppm.

                                                                                                                                    Basically, CO2 calculation relies on the amount of Carbonates and Bi-carbonates at a certain PH. It is a very direct relationship. Addition of Bi-carbonates can result in false readings as there are a lot of unavailable Carbonate ions in the water that do not contribute to the CO2. How PH is related to CO2 is by a simple fact, Carbonates react with Acids (H+ Ions) to form Carbonic Acid (H2CO3) this Carbonic Acid is very unstable and readily dissipates into CO2 and H2O. this CO2 is the one that the plants utilize. Addition of CO2 promotes the formation of Carbonic acid hence reducing the PH. Once this carbonic acid has started formation, it will also start dissipating as H2O and CO2, hence the entire process. Bi-carbonates inhibit the H+ ions thus formation of CO2, but are present as carbonates, so giving false reading.

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Secondly, 2 8W fluorescent (T5 in this case is not a true T5. it is just a thinner T8 type fluorescent with no T5 like enhancements.. this is what I read about 8W T5s)

                                                                                                                                    Your tank is fairly new, and has cycled only with the plants. Very simple to imagine, that plants are actually consuming all the Ammonia produced by the fish. Given an opportunity, they will consume more. Hence your limiting nutrient could be Nitrogen instead of Light or CO2 or trace elements. This is evident by the fact that your Nitrates are at 5ppm. This is low for the plants. I assume, a similar situation could be there for phosphates as well, and are limiting the plants to grow as fast as they can. In this situation, algae can be triggered as you already mentioned that there are traces of algae. I think it would be better to start adding Nitrates in the form of Potassium Nitrate or something to the tank to bring up the balance. I am not as technical enough in this aspect as Giancarlo, so he may be able to suggest something better. But it seems definite that plants are having some or the other of Macro nutrient deficiency (CO2, Nitrogen, Phosphates)

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                    From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                    Sent: 15 April 2004 11:33
                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] General Tank Update:

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    On 1 5/4/04 8:21 PM , " Nimish Mathur " <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                    Great Tim.

                                                                                                                                    According to calculations, PH 6.6 and KH 80ppm, it calculates CO2 to 35ppm.
                                                                                                                                    Which is high and maybe not comfortable for fish. The CO2 test kit is
                                                                                                                                    probably giving wrong reading.

                                                                                                                                    Yep, it was giving high readings even without CO2 addition so I think I’ll  put that kit down to crap.


                                                                                                                                    The test calculations are also not all that
                                                                                                                                    accurate though as I think it calculates the potential amount of CO2 that
                                                                                                                                    should be present. With Bicarbonate addition, I think things will vary from
                                                                                                                                    standard.

                                                                                                                                    As in 60ppm is the saturation point of my CO2 with the current chemical makeup of my water?


                                                                                                                                    How are you diffusing CO2? Just by an Airstone? I would not have thought
                                                                                                                                    that an airstone will be able to diffuse so much CO2 in the tank. With a
                                                                                                                                    powerhead and a diffuser, along with pressurized CO2, I still have low CO2
                                                                                                                                    amounts. KH calculates at 2 and PH 6.6 - CO2 = 15

                                                                                                                                    Yes just by an airstone, and I wouldn’t have thought so either :-( I guess it is a very small tank (8gal, bout 35 litres) so it wouldn’t take much CO2 to increase the ppm significantly I suppose. There also isn’t any surface agitation to speak of.. But yes I was surprised, and considering I was going to add the CO2 into the powerhead, I think I’ll hold off on that idea for a bit until the water has stabilised a little bit and I can get some more reasonable results.

                                                                                                                                    I’m not sure what I should do yet. I would have hoped that I would get more pearling than I have with that amount of CO2, but maybe the plants need more time??? Or more light... They have 2x8 watt T5’s.. dunno.


                                                                                                                                    Have a look at the Windows calculator
                                                                                                                                    http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm

                                                                                                                                    Lol, I’m on a Mac, but I have virtual PC so I’ll give it a spin :-)


                                                                                                                                    I’m also very concerned about a tetra which has developed red streaks along it’s gills, find joins and stomach lining.. I’m concerned about septacemia, although I’m not sure why this fish would have it (the water conditions appear to be good) so I might try some antibiotics, but I’m concerned about infecting other fish :-( :-( and at the same time that I could just be being paranoid. I’ll try to grab a photo later and stick it up somewhere...

                                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                                    Tim



                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1743 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: any guesses at a mystery fry?
                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    In the photos there are two platy fry, they are about a month old. Ten days ago I found another fry and don't know what it is. It definitely isn't a platy, unless it's deformed. It's swimming and eating well, and growing quickly. Other fish in the tank are german rams, queen loaches, kuhlis, and peppered cories.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Here's the link:
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1744 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?
                                                                                                                                    I got "The file you are looking for is inaccessible." What does the new fry
                                                                                                                                    look like? You say it looks deformed?? How?

                                                                                                                                    Erin

                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                    From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                    Date: 04/15/04 10:29:45
                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com; aquaria-freshwater
                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] any guesses at a mystery fry?

                                                                                                                                    Hello,

                                                                                                                                    In the photos there are two platy fry, they are about a month old. Ten days
                                                                                                                                    ago I found another fry and don't know what it is. It definitely isn't a
                                                                                                                                    platy, unless it's deformed.

                                                                                                                                    Here's the link:

                                                                                                                                    http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/11bd&
                                                                                                                                    src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo
                                                                                                                                    com/ph/dtmergl/my_photos
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1745 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     HELP... I can't get to the pictures...... any suggestions???
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Kelly
                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Date: 04/15/04 10:30:07
                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] any guesses at a mystery fry?
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    In the photos there are two platy fry, they are about a month old. Ten days ago I found another fry and don't know what it is. It definitely isn't a platy, unless it's deformed. It's swimming and eating well, and growing quickly. Other fish in the tank are german rams, queen loaches, kuhlis, and peppered cories.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Here's the link:
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1746 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?
                                                                                                                                    Sorry, I accidentally had it set as 'private'.

                                                                                                                                    It's not necessarily defmored, just definitely isn't a platy.


                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                    From: "Erin VanKouwenberg" <celticmommy@...>
                                                                                                                                    To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 10:40 AM
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] any guesses at a mystery fry?


                                                                                                                                    > I got "The file you are looking for is inaccessible." What does the new
                                                                                                                                    fry
                                                                                                                                    > look like? You say it looks deformed?? How?
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Erin
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1747 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: launching oscars
                                                                                                                                    My Oscar Stewart used to jump. We would hold food over the tank and he would jump up for it, I thought it was so cute!! i had him all through out middle school, high school and college. But he died not too long ago after college! I do miss him and enjoyed my time with him, but now I have smaller fish (sailfin mollies, Cory cats, zebra danios and cherry barbs) I would love to get another Oscar!
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1748 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?

                                                                                                                                    It does not look deformed. Its just gray instead of pink. Moreover, they don’t look like Platy fry. Look more like guppy fry. Platy fry are much shorter in body length and are vertically fuller.

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Do you have any of the platies that are not red? Blue/black/gray etc. or any other livebearers in there with them?

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                    From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                    Sent: 15 April 2004 15:30
                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com ; aquaria-freshwater
                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] any guesses at a mystery fry?

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Hello,

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    In the photos there are two platy fry, they are about a month old. Ten days ago I found another fry and don't know what it is. It definitely isn't a platy, unless it's deformed. It's swimming and eating well, and growing quickly. Other fish in the tank are german rams, queen loaches, kuhlis, and peppered cories.

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Any ideas?

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Here's the link:

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Theresa

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1749 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: any guesses at a mystery fry?
                                                                                                                                    The only livebearers in the tank are platies. I do have other colors of platies...calico, blue dawn, blue Mickey Mouse. All the orange-yellow colored fry have similar body shape. This fry not only is different in color but is long and narrow.
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                    Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 11:26 AM
                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] any guesses at a mystery fry?

                                                                                                                                    It does not look deformed. Its just gray instead of pink. Moreover, they don’t look like Platy fry. Look more like guppy fry. Platy fry are much shorter in body length and are vertically fuller.

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Do you have any of the platies that are not red? Blue/black/gray etc. or any other livebearers in there with them?

                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1750 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Moldy Eel
                                                                                                                                    (hi all, this is a repost that did not go through yesterday)

                                                                                                                                    Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:10:48 -0000
                                                                                                                                    From: "mrstr8tx210" <mrstr8tx210@...>
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Moldy Eel
                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com


                                                                                                                                    i recently moved my eel to a 100 gallon tank.i did this because a an
                                                                                                                                    african cichlid seemed to be nibbling on him,now he's been alone for
                                                                                                                                    about 2 days i've noticed translucent(mold)behind the head along the
                                                                                                                                    body ont the tip of the tail is this the normal healing process can
                                                                                                                                    someone please HELP!!!!
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1751 From: captaininsane357 Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Moldy Eel
                                                                                                                                    I think that is a pretty bad sign...
                                                                                                                                    You might want to put some aquarium salt and fungicide in there.

                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
                                                                                                                                    Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    > (hi all, this is a repost that did not go through yesterday)
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:10:48 -0000
                                                                                                                                    > From: "mrstr8tx210" <mrstr8tx210@y...>
                                                                                                                                    > Subject: Moldy Eel
                                                                                                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > i recently moved my eel to a 100 gallon tank.i did this because a
                                                                                                                                    an
                                                                                                                                    > african cichlid seemed to be nibbling on him,now he's been alone
                                                                                                                                    for
                                                                                                                                    > about 2 days i've noticed translucent(mold)behind the head along
                                                                                                                                    the
                                                                                                                                    > body ont the tip of the tail is this the normal healing process can
                                                                                                                                    > someone please HELP!!!!
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1752 From: captaininsane357 Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: launching oscars
                                                                                                                                    Oscars rule. That is funny.
                                                                                                                                    You dont hear stories like that about other kinds of fish.

                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Tim Walker
                                                                                                                                    <twalker@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                    > I had a rather large oscar in the past that took a disliking to my
                                                                                                                                    (now)
                                                                                                                                    > wife, Emma. The fish used to flare/flair at Emma every time she
                                                                                                                                    walked past
                                                                                                                                    > the tank. One day she was looking over the tank and Winnie (the
                                                                                                                                    oscar)
                                                                                                                                    > launched out of the tank and latched onto Emma¹s nose before going
                                                                                                                                    over her
                                                                                                                                    > shoulder and hitting the ground.
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > I saw the whole thing, and was terribly worried of course! I jumped
                                                                                                                                    up and
                                                                                                                                    > put Winnie back in the tank and she was okay fortunately :-)
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Emma was okay once she stopped screaming :-)
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > In Summary, Oscars JUMP!
                                                                                                                                    > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                    > Tim
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1753 From: captaininsane357 Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                    Tim,

                                                                                                                                    Unless I was replacing the gravel or cleaning the whole tank
                                                                                                                                    I wouldnt put the fish in the bucket for rearranging stuff.
                                                                                                                                    Just seems to me that cowering in the corner of the tank for a
                                                                                                                                    bit while you move stuff or put in plants would be less stressful
                                                                                                                                    than getting netted and put in the bucket, then back.

                                                                                                                                    I have done lots of tank rearranging over the years with fish
                                                                                                                                    in the tank without problems. Some of them, like the oscars,
                                                                                                                                    even get used to it, and try to get in the way sometimes.

                                                                                                                                    Scott

                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > I'm planning on rearranging the tank a bit this w/e, probably best
                                                                                                                                    to put
                                                                                                                                    > the fish in a bucket with the heater?
                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                    > Thanks for any advice.
                                                                                                                                    > Tim
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1754 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Moldy Eel
                                                                                                                                    No thats not normal, he is probably developing a fungal infection, you can treat it with various things.  I would send a pic so we can see
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                        Andreas
                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 1755 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                      I haven't checked messages in a while, so this is probaly addressed.
                                                                                                                                      Here goes anyway, GET THOSE SEASHELLS OUT! They will release carbonates
                                                                                                                                      into the water, hardening your water and raising the pH. Tetras rarely
                                                                                                                                      like very hard water and that's exactly what you'll get. Didn't mean to
                                                                                                                                      shout, it's just that important.

                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1756 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                      Oh yeah, about the algae. You'l find this occurs more often in new
                                                                                                                                      tanks because ammonia is the right chemical to feed it. Be patient, add
                                                                                                                                      some hardy plants and continue your water changes. I'll bet you have
                                                                                                                                      incandecent lights, try a light like a compact that screws in for a
                                                                                                                                      better spectrum. Most algicides are carcinogenic, try burying some
                                                                                                                                      barley straw pellets in the gravel, it'll release substances into the
                                                                                                                                      water that nterferes with algaes abiliy to form. You can usually find
                                                                                                                                      this in pond departments.

                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1757 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: cucumber? for fish
                                                                                                                                      Hey Aaron, stay away from breads, they use alot of oil in the making of
                                                                                                                                      it. Not all the yeast will be dead either.

                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1758 From: Julie Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Swim Bladder Disorder?
                                                                                                                                      I have two mollies, not sure of what kind.  DH bought them about a month ago and didn't pay attention to what kind they are.  They look like sailfins, and are white.  Well, yesterday, I noticed that one was "curved", not swimming correctly and hanging out either by the heater or by the powerhead.  Seems to be breathing heavily.  I think it has swim bladder disorder, but I don't know why, or how to help it.  Or for that matter, whether anything can be done.  The ammonia is 0,  the nitrites are 0, the nitrates are somewhere between 12.5 and 25. (thats as accurate as I can get with the tests I have) the temp is 79-80 and the ph is somehwhere between 7.2 and 7.6 (again, as accurate as I can get with the tests) which is what it is coming out of the tap.  DH has salt in the water, right around 1tsp per gal. and we do weekly water changes (about 25-30% of the 29 gal tank).  The tank is about 4 or 6 weeks old or so and has cycled Besides the 2 mollies in question, there is also 2 lyretails, 6 platys and 2 bettas (1male, 1 female) and a ghost shrimp.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks.
                                                                                                                                      julie
                                                                                                                                      Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                                      I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1759 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                      Hey Tim, I didn't catch a list of your fish but do you have any chinese
                                                                                                                                      algae eaters? If so, they are the culprit. If not, may be a pleco, they
                                                                                                                                      sometimes rasp on other fish but that's rare. Watch your fish at night
                                                                                                                                      and see if anyone's being a jerk in the dark, the most common cause of
                                                                                                                                      septicemia.

                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1760 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                      Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                      Thanks I’ll resort to cowering fish then :-)
                                                                                                                                      And try not to bury anyone!!
                                                                                                                                      Tim


                                                                                                                                      On 16/4/04 2:57 AM, "captaininsane357" <captaininsane357@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                      Tim,

                                                                                                                                        Unless I was replacing the gravel or cleaning the whole tank
                                                                                                                                      I wouldnt put the fish in the bucket for rearranging stuff.
                                                                                                                                      Just seems to me that cowering in the corner of the tank for a
                                                                                                                                      bit while you move stuff or put in plants would be less stressful
                                                                                                                                      than getting netted and put in the bucket, then back.

                                                                                                                                        I have done lots of tank rearranging over the years with fish
                                                                                                                                      in the tank without problems.   Some of them, like the oscars,
                                                                                                                                      even get used to it, and try to get in the way sometimes.

                                                                                                                                      Scott

                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > I'm planning on rearranging the tank a bit this w/e, probably best
                                                                                                                                      to put
                                                                                                                                      > the fish in a bucket with the heater?
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Thanks for any advice.
                                                                                                                                      > Tim




                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1761 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                      Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                      I have

                                                                                                                                      1 Betta, (fullgrown)
                                                                                                                                      4 Head and Tail Light Tetras (I had 5, but I euthanised one after he became a spinner straight from the LFS
                                                                                                                                          and didn’t recover despite treatment for a week) - (fullgrown)
                                                                                                                                      4 Corydoras aeneus (very small)
                                                                                                                                      3 True SAE’s. (also very small)

                                                                                                                                      They are definitely true SAE’s, 1 pair barbels, jagged border beween black and silver, black line continues through tail, only a single black line etc.

                                                                                                                                      I’ll have to sit up with a torth and see then :-) I have the lights turn off at eleven, maybe they can turn off early tonight...

                                                                                                                                      Tim



                                                                                                                                      On 16/4/04 6:07 AM, "bucks_boogie@..." <bucks_boogie@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                      Hey Tim, I didn't catch a list of your fish but do you have any chinese
                                                                                                                                      algae eaters?  If so, they are the culprit. If not, may be a pleco, they
                                                                                                                                      sometimes rasp on other fish but that's rare.  Watch your fish at night
                                                                                                                                      and see if anyone's being a jerk in the dark, the most common cause of
                                                                                                                                      septicemia.

                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1762 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: General Tank Update:
                                                                                                                                      You don't see it often, but the SAE's sometimes take a liking to the
                                                                                                                                      slime coat on other fish. When that happens, the flesh can become
                                                                                                                                      damaged. See if there's a brat in the group and seperate it if you have
                                                                                                                                      to, GOOD LUCK!

                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1763 From: Deborah Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: On Line Supplier needed
                                                                                                                                      I need to buy a new light for my 29 gal tank. Where do most of ya'll
                                                                                                                                      buy your online supplies? Thanks
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1764 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
                                                                                                                                      I bought my retro fit kits from AH Supply ~ http://www.ahsupply.com

                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah"
                                                                                                                                      <dmonroe-howard@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                      > I need to buy a new light for my 29 gal tank. Where do most of
                                                                                                                                      ya'll
                                                                                                                                      > buy your online supplies? Thanks
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1765 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
                                                                                                                                      i usually google for the best deals on equipment, though
                                                                                                                                      www.drsfostersmith.com tends to have amazing deals on supplies for any
                                                                                                                                      animal you might have. i'm also in the market for a new light, but
                                                                                                                                      after doing some research it turns out that in my case, petland
                                                                                                                                      discounts has the best deal on the 48" double tube flourescent i'm
                                                                                                                                      looking for...
                                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                                      On Apr 15, 2004, at 7:52 PM, Deborah wrote:

                                                                                                                                      > I need to buy a new light for my 29 gal tank.  Where do most of ya'll
                                                                                                                                      > buy your online supplies?  Thanks
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                      > <yhoo0404_a_300250A.gif>
                                                                                                                                      > <l.gif>
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                      > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                      > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                      > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                      > Service.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >


                                                                                                                                      http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                      don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1766 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
                                                                                                                                      http://www.bigalsonline.com/splash.html



                                                                                                                                      > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah"
                                                                                                                                      > <dmonroe-howard@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                      > > I need to buy a new light for my 29 gal tank. Where do most of
                                                                                                                                      > ya'll
                                                                                                                                      > > buy your online supplies? Thanks
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1767 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: launching oscars
                                                                                                                                      i used to have tiger oscars as well and yes i used to
                                                                                                                                      feed them raw chicken pcs and hey would jump and grab
                                                                                                                                      it from my hand..

                                                                                                                                      I have read in some other forums as well and many have
                                                                                                                                      jumped out to death. So its better to cover the top
                                                                                                                                      properly ....SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                      --- Short Jonathan <jonathan.short@...>
                                                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                                                      > You may find this hard to beleive but it's the
                                                                                                                                      > truth!
                                                                                                                                      > Last night I opened the lid of aquarium and both my
                                                                                                                                      > tiger oscars (the tank
                                                                                                                                      > is still in it's early days) came to the top waiting
                                                                                                                                      > for some nosh, as usual
                                                                                                                                      > they were quite excitable.
                                                                                                                                      > I looked in the water nad to my surprise, one of
                                                                                                                                      > them launched out of the
                                                                                                                                      > tank, literally shot out of the water, it did'nt
                                                                                                                                      > flip out if you get me.
                                                                                                                                      > Hoesntly, jumped, like it had even thought about it
                                                                                                                                      > before hand.
                                                                                                                                      > Thankfully enough he's fine now. And swimming like
                                                                                                                                      > nothing ever happened.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Are oscars jumpers? Should I be careful in future? I
                                                                                                                                      > honestly could'nt
                                                                                                                                      > beleive it.
                                                                                                                                      > I think they're rabid!
                                                                                                                                      > Would'nt surprise me!
                                                                                                                                      > Any ideas anyone?
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Jonny Short
                                                                                                                                      > Avalon Court
                                                                                                                                      > Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                                                      > 3rd Floor
                                                                                                                                      > <mailto:Jonathan.short@...>
                                                                                                                                      > Jonathan.short@...
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      ___________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > This email and any attached to it are confidential
                                                                                                                                      > and intended only for the
                                                                                                                                      > individual or entity to which it is addressed. If
                                                                                                                                      > you are not the intended
                                                                                                                                      > recipient, please let us know by telephoning or
                                                                                                                                      > emailing the sender. You
                                                                                                                                      > should also delete the email and any attachment from
                                                                                                                                      > your systems and should
                                                                                                                                      > not copy the email or any attachment or disclose
                                                                                                                                      > their content to any other
                                                                                                                                      > person or entity. The views expressed here are not
                                                                                                                                      > necessarily those of
                                                                                                                                      > Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or
                                                                                                                                      > subsidiaries. Thank you.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Churchill Insurance Group plc. Company Registration
                                                                                                                                      > Number - 2280426.
                                                                                                                                      > England.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland
                                                                                                                                      > Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                                                                                                                      > 1DP.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                                      > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=Blank Bkgrd.gif






                                                                                                                                      __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1768 From: fcatacutan Date: 4/15/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Question regarding driftwood
                                                                                                                                      Hi,

                                                                                                                                      I bought a piece of African driftwood, and I read somewhere that it
                                                                                                                                      needed to soaked in water for a period of time before being placed in
                                                                                                                                      a tank. I soaked it for about a week before placing it in my tank
                                                                                                                                      and in less than an hour the water was discolored. Fearing that it
                                                                                                                                      would harm my fish, I quickly took it out and soaked it again. Maybe
                                                                                                                                      this is why the driftwood needs to be pre-soaked?

                                                                                                                                      Anyway, it's been over a month and the driftwood continues to
                                                                                                                                      discolor the water in my tank every time I try to re-introduce it
                                                                                                                                      into the tank.

                                                                                                                                      Does anyone know if driftwood generally discolors the water? Is
                                                                                                                                      there something that I can do to correct this?

                                                                                                                                      Fermin
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1769 From: John Clothier Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: launching oscars
                                                                                                                                      On the subject of Oscars,  Has anyone tried adding 1 or even 2 small (around 1.5") Oscars to a tank which already contains 1 larger (about 6") Oscar?
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      I thought that my Oscar could use a partner (I would like to breed them if poss) but not being sure of the existing ones sex I thought it worth adding a couple of new ones to give myself a better chance of gatting a pair. I'm just not sure of the size difference. At the moment the larger oscar is constantly chasing the 2 smaller ones into a corner. Will this stop as they grow bigger? or do you really have to add them all at the same time at the same size?
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Thanks
                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 4:56 AM
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] launching oscars

                                                                                                                                      i used to have tiger oscars as well and yes i used to
                                                                                                                                      feed them raw chicken pcs and hey would jump and grab
                                                                                                                                      it from my hand..

                                                                                                                                      I have read in some other forums as well and many have
                                                                                                                                      jumped out to death. So its better to cover the top
                                                                                                                                      properly ....SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                      --- Short Jonathan <jonathan.short@...>
                                                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                                                      > You may find this hard to beleive but it's the
                                                                                                                                      > truth!
                                                                                                                                      > Last night I opened the lid of aquarium and both my
                                                                                                                                      > tiger oscars (the tank
                                                                                                                                      > is still in it's early days) came to the top waiting
                                                                                                                                      > for some nosh, as usual
                                                                                                                                      > they were quite excitable.
                                                                                                                                      > I looked in the water nad to my surprise, one of
                                                                                                                                      > them launched out of the
                                                                                                                                      > tank, literally shot out of the water, it did'nt
                                                                                                                                      > flip out if you get me.
                                                                                                                                      > Hoesntly, jumped, like it had even thought about it
                                                                                                                                      > before hand.
                                                                                                                                      > Thankfully enough he's fine now. And swimming like
                                                                                                                                      > nothing ever happened.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Are oscars jumpers? Should I be careful in future? I
                                                                                                                                      > honestly could'nt
                                                                                                                                      > beleive it.
                                                                                                                                      > I think they're rabid!
                                                                                                                                      > Would'nt surprise me!
                                                                                                                                      > Any ideas anyone?

                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Jonny Short
                                                                                                                                      > Avalon Court
                                                                                                                                      > Nottingham Retainers
                                                                                                                                      > 3rd Floor
                                                                                                                                      >  <mailto:Jonathan.short@...>
                                                                                                                                      > Jonathan.short@...
                                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      ___________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > This email and any attached to it are confidential
                                                                                                                                      > and intended only for the
                                                                                                                                      > individual or entity to which it is addressed.  If
                                                                                                                                      > you are not the intended
                                                                                                                                      > recipient, please let us know by telephoning or
                                                                                                                                      > emailing the sender.  You
                                                                                                                                      > should also delete the email and any attachment from
                                                                                                                                      > your systems and should
                                                                                                                                      > not copy the email or any attachment or disclose
                                                                                                                                      > their content to any other
                                                                                                                                      > person or entity.  The views expressed here are not
                                                                                                                                      > necessarily those of
                                                                                                                                      > Churchill Insurance Group plc or its affiliates or
                                                                                                                                      > subsidiaries. Thank you.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Churchill Insurance Group plc.  Company Registration
                                                                                                                                      > Number - 2280426.
                                                                                                                                      > England.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Registered Office: Churchill Court, Westmoreland
                                                                                                                                      > Road, Bromley, Kent BR1
                                                                                                                                      > 1DP.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                                      > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=Blank Bkgrd.gif




                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                      __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
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                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1770 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: launching oscars
                                                                                                                                      Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] launching oscars
                                                                                                                                      I’d be more concerned about the 6” taking a bite or two out of the 1.5” oscars. 1.5” is very small. You can purchase them (at my local LFS anyway) at about 3 or 4 inches... which would probably be a bit more compatible.

                                                                                                                                      If you fish actually survive then the odds of them eventually getting on together would be good.

                                                                                                                                      Tim


                                                                                                                                      On 16/4/04 5:39 PM, "John Clothier" <john@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                      On the subject of Oscars,  Has anyone tried adding 1 or even 2 small (around 1.5") Oscars to a tank which already contains 1 larger (about 6") Oscar?

                                                                                                                                      I thought that my Oscar could use a partner (I would like to breed them if poss) but not being sure of the existing ones sex I thought it worth adding a couple of new ones to give myself a better chance of gatting a pair. I'm just not sure of the size difference. At the moment the larger oscar is constantly chasing the 2 smaller ones into a corner. Will this stop as they grow bigger? or do you really have to add them all at the same time at the same size?

                                                                                                                                      Thanks

                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1771 From: John Clothier Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: launching oscars
                                                                                                                                      Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] launching oscars
                                                                                                                                      To be honest I don't think he will actually bite them (I hope!).  he has had plenty of opportunity to do so but he stops short. Almost like he's being a bully, all talk and no action. he boxes them into a corner and then turns around and swims off.
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      It's interesting come feeding time because the little ones don't care how much bigger the other is, they have as good a go as the larger one at getting the bloodworms!
                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                      From: Tim Walker
                                                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 9:00 AM
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] launching oscars


                                                                                                                                      I’d be more concerned about the 6” taking a bite or two out of the 1.5” oscars. 1.5” is very small. You can purchase them (at my local LFS anyway) at about 3 or 4 inches... which would probably be a bit more compatible.

                                                                                                                                      If you fish actually survive then the odds of them eventually getting on together would be good.

                                                                                                                                      Tim


                                                                                                                                      On 16/4/04 5:39 PM, "John Clothier" <john@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                      On the subject of Oscars,  Has anyone tried adding 1 or even 2 small (around 1.5") Oscars to a tank which already contains 1 larger (about 6") Oscar?

                                                                                                                                      I thought that my Oscar could use a partner (I would like to breed them if poss) but not being sure of the existing ones sex I thought it worth adding a couple of new ones to give myself a better chance of gatting a pair. I'm just not sure of the size difference. At the moment the larger oscar is constantly chasing the 2 smaller ones into a corner. Will this stop as they grow bigger? or do you really have to add them all at the same time at the same size?

                                                                                                                                      Thanks


                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1772 From: Tony Bittick Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                      Seashells will harden water? Really?

                                                                                                                                      What about oyster shells?

                                                                                                                                      I was on the coast in Texas while my tank was setting up. I brought home a couple of clam shells, a really cool oyster shell configuration and a barnacle.

                                                                                                                                      I also included two small clam shells still intact... meaning the two ends are still connected although the shell is open.

                                                                                                                                      Any more information on  this and or opinions regarding the validity?

                                                                                                                                      Tony



                                                                                                                                      At 03:14 PM 4/15/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                      I haven't checked messages in a while, so this is probaly addressed.
                                                                                                                                      Here goes anyway, GET THOSE SEASHELLS OUT!  They will release carbonates
                                                                                                                                      into the water, hardening your water and raising the pH.  Tetras rarely
                                                                                                                                      like very hard water and that's exactly what you'll get.  Didn't mean to
                                                                                                                                      shout, it's just that important.

                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



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                                                                                                                                      Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:35:39 -0000
                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae problem (newbie)
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                                                                                                                                      Hello!  I have just joined this group in an attempt to find an answer
                                                                                                                                      to the problem we are having with our son's fish tank.  This is my
                                                                                                                                      first real foray into keeping fish and I am finding out exactly how
                                                                                                                                      much is involved!  

                                                                                                                                      So first some background - we have had a 10g tank that came with
                                                                                                                                      filter and heater since February.  We have fake plants and seashells
                                                                                                                                      and some gravel.  The tank is inhabited by two neons, two tetras and
                                                                                                                                      one catfish.  We purchased the catfish in an attempt to control the
                                                                                                                                      green algae that was growing on all surfaces.  He did a great job, but
                                                                                                                                      after the last 1/4 water change, we started getting some kind of algae
                                                                                                                                      I guess, that doesn't adhere to anything but turns the water
                                                                                                                                      greenish-brown.  We tried algae-cide and did a complete water change
                                                                                                                                      when that didn't seem to be enough. The problem seemed gone for a day
                                                                                                                                      or two, but is now back and getting worse.  The fish don't seem to
                                                                                                                                      mind, but then, it's so cloudy that it is hard to see the fish!  Does
                                                                                                                                      anyone know what is causing this and how to control it?  Oh, since it
                                                                                                                                      seems to be a point made in other postings - we keep the tank light on
                                                                                                                                      only during daylight hours and have tried to keep it off more often,
                                                                                                                                      but that hasn't made any difference.

                                                                                                                                      Thanks in advance for any help!
                                                                                                                                      Windy


                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1773 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)

                                                                                                                                      Yes they will. They will not make much difference in Alkaline water, but in Acidic water, they will slowly increase the GH and KH. This goes for all shells that are made up of Calcium Carbonate (Snails, Clams, Oysters, Corals etc.)

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      Having these things with a PH of 8 will not really change water chemistry even noticeably, but in Acidic water, the shells will gradually start loosing out on themselves getting thinner and thinner while increasing the GH and KH of the water. They dissolve better in acid.

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                      From: Tony Bittick [mailto:tbittick@...]
                                                                                                                                      Sent: 16 April 2004 13:24
                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae problem (newbie)

                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                      Seashells will harden water? Really?

                                                                                                                                      What about oyster shells?

                                                                                                                                      I was on the coast in Texas while my tank was setting up. I brought home a couple of clam shells, a really cool oyster shell configuration and a barnacle.

                                                                                                                                      I also included two small clam shells still intact... meaning the two ends are still connected although the shell is open.

                                                                                                                                      Any more information on  this and or opinions regarding the validity?

                                                                                                                                      Tony



                                                                                                                                      At 03:14 PM 4/15/2004 , you wrote:

                                                                                                                                      I haven't checked messages in a while, so this is probaly addressed.
                                                                                                                                      Here goes anyway, GET THOSE SEASHELLS OUT!  They will release carbonates
                                                                                                                                      into the water, hardening your water and raising the pH.  Tetras rarely
                                                                                                                                      like very hard water and that's exactly what you'll get.  D idn 't mean to
                                                                                                                                      shout, it's just that important.

                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



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                                                                                                                                      Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:35:39 -0000
                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae problem (newbie)
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                                                                                                                                      Hello!  I have just joined this group in an attempt to find an answer
                                                                                                                                      to the problem we are having with our son's fish tank.  This is my
                                                                                                                                      first real foray into keeping fish and I am finding out exactly how
                                                                                                                                      much is involved!  

                                                                                                                                      So first some background - we have had a 10g tank that came with
                                                                                                                                      filter and heater since February.  We have fake plants and seashells
                                                                                                                                      and some gravel.  The tank is inhabited by two neons, two tetras and
                                                                                                                                      one catfish.  We purchased the catfish in an attempt to control the
                                                                                                                                      green algae that was growing on all surfaces.  He did a great job, but
                                                                                                                                      after the last 1/4 water change, we started getting some kind of algae
                                                                                                                                      I guess, that doesn't adhere to anything but turns the water
                                                                                                                                      greenish-brown.  We tried algae-cide and did a complete water change
                                                                                                                                      when that d idn 't seem to be enough. The problem seemed gone for a day
                                                                                                                                      or two, but is now back and getting worse.  The fish don't seem to
                                                                                                                                      mind, but then, it's so cloudy that it is hard to see the fish!  Does
                                                                                                                                      anyone know what is causing this and how to control it?  Oh, since it
                                                                                                                                      seems to be a point made in other postings - we keep the tank light on
                                                                                                                                      only during daylight hours and have tried to keep it off more often,
                                                                                                                                      but that hasn't made any difference.

                                                                                                                                      Thanks in advance for any help!
                                                                                                                                      Windy


                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1774 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                      Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae problem (newbie) I read recently that this can have fatal consequences for an auto compressed-CO2 system which doses based on pH value. The carbonic acid from the CO2 dissolves the shells increasing the kH and making the pH go up which in turn causes more CO2 into the system ad infinitum. Eventually the CO2 added gets so high that the fish can no longer respire and so the are asphyxiated.

                                                                                                                                      Tim

                                                                                                                                      On 16/4/04 10:34 PM, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                      Yes they will. They will not make much difference in Alkaline water, but in Acidic water, they will slowly increase the GH and KH. This goes for all shells that are made up of Calcium Carbonate (Snails, Clams, Oysters, Corals etc.)
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Having these things with a PH of 8 will not really change water chemistry even noticeably, but in Acidic water, the shells will gradually start loosing out on themselves getting thinner and thinner while increasing the GH and KH of the water. They dissolve better in acid.
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                      Nim
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       



                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1775 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                      all shells will do it, as well as coral. i keep eggshells in my filter
                                                                                                                                      and a piece of coral in the tank because i live on long island and we
                                                                                                                                      have extremely soft water that doesn't allow for snails to survive...
                                                                                                                                      it's not a bad thing to have them in there if you have naturally soft
                                                                                                                                      water, but b careful if your water is already hard because these things
                                                                                                                                      can push it over the edge...
                                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                                      On Apr 16, 2004, at 8:24 AM, Tony Bittick wrote:

                                                                                                                                      > Seashells will harden water? Really?
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > What about oyster shells?
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > I was on the coast in Texas while my tank was setting up. I brought
                                                                                                                                      > home a couple of clam shells, a really cool oyster shell configuration
                                                                                                                                      > and a barnacle.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > I also included two small clam shells still intact... meaning the two
                                                                                                                                      > ends are still connected although the shell is open.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Any more information on  this and or opinions regarding the validity?
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Tony
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > At 03:14 PM 4/15/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > I haven't checked messages in a while, so this is probaly addressed.
                                                                                                                                      > Here goes anyway, GET THOSE SEASHELLS OUT!  They will release
                                                                                                                                      > carbonates
                                                                                                                                      > into the water, hardening your water and raising the pH.  Tetras
                                                                                                                                      > rarely
                                                                                                                                      > like very hard water and that's exactly what you'll get.  Didn't mean
                                                                                                                                      > to
                                                                                                                                      > shout, it's just that important.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                      > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae problem (newbie)
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                                                                                                                                      > Hello!  I have just joined this group in an attempt to find an answer
                                                                                                                                      > to the problem we are having with our son's fish tank.  This is my
                                                                                                                                      > first real foray into keeping fish and I am finding out exactly how
                                                                                                                                      > much is involved!  
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > So first some background - we have had a 10g tank that came with
                                                                                                                                      > filter and heater since February.  We have fake plants and seashells
                                                                                                                                      > and some gravel.  The tank is inhabited by two neons, two tetras and
                                                                                                                                      > one catfish.  We purchased the catfish in an attempt to control the
                                                                                                                                      > green algae that was growing on all surfaces.  He did a great job, but
                                                                                                                                      > after the last 1/4 water change, we started getting some kind of algae
                                                                                                                                      > I guess, that doesn't adhere to anything but turns the water
                                                                                                                                      > greenish-brown.  We tried algae-cide and did a complete water change
                                                                                                                                      > when that didn't seem to be enough. The problem seemed gone for a day
                                                                                                                                      > or two, but is now back and getting worse.  The fish don't seem to
                                                                                                                                      > mind, but then, it's so cloudy that it is hard to see the fish!  Does
                                                                                                                                      > anyone know what is causing this and how to control it?  Oh, since it
                                                                                                                                      > seems to be a point made in other postings - we keep the tank light on
                                                                                                                                      > only during daylight hours and have tried to keep it off more often,
                                                                                                                                      > but that hasn't made any difference.
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > Thanks in advance for any help!
                                                                                                                                      > Windy
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1776 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 183
                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 4/16/04 9:34:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                      I bought a piece of African driftwood, and I read somewhere that it
                                                                                                                                      needed to soaked in water for a period of time before being placed in
                                                                                                                                      a tank.  I soaked it for about a week before placing it in my tank
                                                                                                                                      and in less than an hour the water was discolored.  Fearing that it
                                                                                                                                      would harm my fish, I quickly took it out and soaked it again.  Maybe
                                                                                                                                      this is why the driftwood needs to be pre-soaked?


                                                                                                                                      I don't know that African driftwood would be any different than DE driftwood, but whenever I find any on the beach, I first submerge it in hot water and let it soak for a day or so.  Then I soak it in a 10 to 1 mix of bleach.  This seems to kill any critters and clean it up so it's OK for a tank.  I also remove any soft material.
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1777 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
                                                                                                                                      Yes! Big Als is great this where my hubby will be getting all the our
                                                                                                                                      stuff for our new 150gallon "Come on tax return"

                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Dan &
                                                                                                                                      Theresa" <dtmergl@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                      > http://www.bigalsonline.com/splash.html
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                      > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah"
                                                                                                                                      > > <dmonroe-howard@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                      > > > I need to buy a new light for my 29 gal tank. Where do most of
                                                                                                                                      > > ya'll
                                                                                                                                      > > > buy your online supplies? Thanks
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1778 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 183
                                                                                                                                      Wood is not a very simple subject. There are Government standards for allowable particle amounts allowed in the atmosphere in workplaces, to the tune that research has found different woods have different toxic levels, and some, especially southern-hemisphere woods, are very poisonous. Surprisingly, something as common as pine has'nt been studied as of a recent report. From what I've learned, when buying for fish habitations, one must be very careful/sure that the wood is appropriate and appropriately treated, so that nothing toxic/harmful leaches into the aquarium water. As for a 1/10 solution of household bleach-to-water, I would'nt think of it because as far as I know it's a much, much, much larger concentration of chlorine/compound (sodium hypochlorite?) than occurs when sanctifying the local water-supply.
                                                                                                                                      I know I read somewhere that there's a safe way to determine if a wood is safe for fish, but at his time, I don't know where it is. Seems there are a number of articulate, scientifically-aware members of this group, and I hope they fill you in, before I find something appropriate.
                                                                                                                                      Caution,
                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1779 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: Driftwood darkening Aquarium water.
                                                                                                                                         H'lo,
                                                                                                                                           Found a short reference in one of my books;
                                                                                                                                                         ' Dr. Axelrods' Mini-Atlas'
                                                                                                                                                    ".................it must be dead and have all sap leached from it, or trouble can occur."
                                                                                                                                                                                   Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 1780 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                      Subject: driftwood in aquariums (darkening water)
                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                        Here's a link relating to driftwood and zink (zinc is a metal, and one of my resources 'sez "never put metal into an aquarium).
                                                                                                                                           There's usually a non-corroding metal screw moved through a hole in slate to attach the slate to the wood as a weigh-down. Hence the word zinc is'nt off topic. But zinc can dissolve as can stainless steel, and there are plastic screws available. I've read coincidentally that zinc  (of galvanized deck-screws fame) is a catalyst for releasing the arsenic from the chemical compound used to treat wood (pressure-treated-wood) for resistance to insects, etc.
                                                                                                                                            I don't remember if it was this article, but I just read that inappropriate driftwood can change PH, and that a lengthy regime of dissolving the chemistry from unknown wood (assuming it is appropriately dead) can improve your chances of keeping your little charges healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                     Joe P.

                                                                                                                                         http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.9802/msg00209.html
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1781 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 183
                                                                                                                                        i've actually heard that you should NEVER put any wood you find on the
                                                                                                                                        beach in your tank because of various contaminates. the best aquarium
                                                                                                                                        wood is found in freshwater in malaysia, it sinks and has no
                                                                                                                                        contaminates or compounds to leech. it also doesn't stain the water...
                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                        On Apr 16, 2004, at 3:04 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                        >    Wood is not a very simple subject. There are Government standards
                                                                                                                                        > for allowable particle amounts allowed in the atmosphere in
                                                                                                                                        > workplaces, to the tune that research has found different woods have
                                                                                                                                        > different toxic levels, and some, especially southern-hemisphere
                                                                                                                                        > woods, are very poisonous. Surprisingly, something as common as pine
                                                                                                                                        > has'nt been studied as of a recent report. From what I've learned,
                                                                                                                                        > when buying for fish habitations, one must be very careful/sure that
                                                                                                                                        > the wood is appropriate and appropriately treated, so that nothing
                                                                                                                                        > toxic/harmful leaches into the aquarium water. As for a 1/10 solution
                                                                                                                                        > of household bleach-to-water, I would'nt think of it because as far as
                                                                                                                                        > I know it's a much, much, much larger concentration of
                                                                                                                                        > chlorine/compound (sodium hypochlorite?) than occurs when sanctifying
                                                                                                                                        > the local water-supply.
                                                                                                                                        >    I know I read somewhere that there's a safe way to determine if a
                                                                                                                                        > wood is safe for fish, but at his time, I don't know where it is.
                                                                                                                                        > Seems there are a number of articulate, scientifically-aware members
                                                                                                                                        > of this group, and I hope they fill you in, before I find something
                                                                                                                                        > appropriate.
                                                                                                                                        >                          Caution,
                                                                                                                                        >                     Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        >  
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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1782 From: mike mather Date: 4/16/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
                                                                                                                                        http://www.hellolights.com/index.html  Deborah, I bought a complete light fixture for my 30gal from these folks and the delivery and service were exceptional. I am growing lots of plants and they have whatever your looking for. Good Luck, Mike

                                                                                                                                        Deborah <dmonroe-howard@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        I need to buy a new light for my 29 gal tank.  Where do most of ya'll
                                                                                                                                        buy your online supplies?  Thanks




                                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1783 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/17/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 184
                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/17/04 8:59:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                        As for a 1/10 solution
                                                                                                                                        > of household bleach-to-water, I would'nt think of it because as far as
                                                                                                                                        > I know it's a much, much, much larger concentration of
                                                                                                                                        > chlorine/compound (sodium hypochlorite?) than occurs when sanctifying
                                                                                                                                        > the local water-supply.


                                                                                                                                        As far as I know, chlorine (one of the halogens) is highly volitile.  Therefore, a 10% solution used to soak a piece of driftwood would "evaporate" if the driftwood is allowed to dry before putting it in your tank.  As with most things, what works for one might not work for another - all I was stating was what worked for me.  If you are using city/town water, it probably already contains some chlorine or chlorine compound(s).  I have always used well water where I didn't have a chance of a chlorine saturation.
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1784 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/17/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae problem (newbie)
                                                                                                                                        Long Island, BIRTHPLACE OF THE AMAZING BLUE OYSTER CULT! Hey all,
                                                                                                                                        thanks for making my point about the shells, especially those BLUE
                                                                                                                                        OYSTER SHELLS :-) !!!!!!

                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1785 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/17/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: On Line Supplier needed
                                                                                                                                        Shipping charges generally bite at Big Als though.

                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1786 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/17/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: chlorine (in sodium hypochlorite/household bleach)
                                                                                                                                        What was bothering me about the bleach ( not having understood much chemistry) (sodium hypochlorite) was that crystals can be found around the screw-cap and bottle-neck of household bleach, so that if any amount, especially a large amount is soaked, and allowed to dry, the bleach in the driftwood is'nt losing chlorine to the atmosphere, since it's not chlorine. The inert ingredients are vaporizing, and leaving sodium-hypochlorite (crystals) behind. When those crystals are re-dissolved in the aquarium it's a problem. (You could try an experiment. Place a quarter-inch, or about 8mm household bleach into a clear glatt and wait for it to evaporate naturally. See what's left, and sniff to detect chlorine, or have it analysed.
                                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1787 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/17/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: breeding question
                                                                                                                                        hello all, i am having a weird behavior issue in my tank and i thought
                                                                                                                                        i might ask about for opinions on the matter.
                                                                                                                                        as some of you know, i breed bubble gum parrots. these are a cross
                                                                                                                                        between a pink convict and a blood parrot (itself a cross between a
                                                                                                                                        gold severum and a red devil.) i have several breeding pairs of these
                                                                                                                                        in my 55 gallon tank, along with some other tank mates. we have no
                                                                                                                                        fighting or other unruly behavior in there, although any fish that gets
                                                                                                                                        ill or old is quickly snatched up by my 6" blue crayfish. i'm fine with
                                                                                                                                        this as it seems to keep my tank relatively disease free.
                                                                                                                                        my issue is this, my favorite fish in the tank is a large male and he
                                                                                                                                        has successfully bred perhaps 10 times in this tank. usually with the
                                                                                                                                        same female. they keep a nest inside a "broken pipe" ornament and all
                                                                                                                                        was going well. the other night, while fish watching i noticed two
                                                                                                                                        other fish inside the pipe and my large male was outside of it. now,
                                                                                                                                        when a breeding pair has claimed a nest, no other fish (save my common
                                                                                                                                        pleco, who, it would seem, has been declared "no threat" by all of my
                                                                                                                                        fish, even though he is quite large) are allowed in or near the nest. i
                                                                                                                                        was upset by this as i assumed he had been pushed out as the tanks
                                                                                                                                        "alpha male" and would now enter the older "single male" post-breeding
                                                                                                                                        phase of his life. however, i've noticed something odd and that is that
                                                                                                                                        he is allowed inside the pipe and moreover, he is watching over the two
                                                                                                                                        fish inside the pipe, seemingly with their cooperation. is it possible
                                                                                                                                        that my male is forming a harem and is keeping two females in the pipe?
                                                                                                                                        he is chasing away all other fish, as usual, except these two, which
                                                                                                                                        are inside the pipe and have now built the biggest nest i've ever seen.
                                                                                                                                        it is difficult to sex these fish outside of behavior patterns, and
                                                                                                                                        while the males are usually more pale and larger, i have had a couple
                                                                                                                                        of huge white females, so one never knows until the babies hatch.
                                                                                                                                        can anyone tell me if a harem situation is possible? what's going on
                                                                                                                                        here?!
                                                                                                                                        i'm curiously waiting to see if fry will be the result of all of this
                                                                                                                                        nest building. if they are, i'm going to have more than i can handle i
                                                                                                                                        think....
                                                                                                                                        amalthea
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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1788 From: ackieuk2000 Date: 4/17/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: hi all
                                                                                                                                        hi all i'm ack , ive been keeping fish for a while and have 4
                                                                                                                                        tanks , 1 4 foot , 2 2.5 foot and a 4 gallon hospital tank .

                                                                                                                                        i have around 200 fish the majority being livebearers , i have 4
                                                                                                                                        clown loaches , 2 gold marble bristlenose catfish , 2 sp 9
                                                                                                                                        bristlenose catfish , 2 rams , 8 glowlight and 5 neon tetras ,
                                                                                                                                        around 15 molly's of diff types , 5 platy's and lots of guppy's lol .

                                                                                                                                        ack
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1789 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/17/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: SAE behaviour
                                                                                                                                        Hi Guys,

                                                                                                                                        Yesterday I added presoaked driftwood, rearranged the tank, added lots of
                                                                                                                                        new plants (hairgrass, hornwort, 2 crypts), did a 50% water change.

                                                                                                                                        I also added 10 Neon Tetras which when I got them home I realised had some
                                                                                                                                        reasonably severe tailrot and/or fungal infections - unfortunately I don't
                                                                                                                                        have a quarantine tank yet..

                                                                                                                                        So I treated with Melafix, Furon-2 and Quinine Hydrochloride/malachite
                                                                                                                                        green, in the hope of knocking out any parasites and bacterial infections
                                                                                                                                        and giving the fish a fighting start to recovery.

                                                                                                                                        Last night I noticed SAE behaviour that I hadn't seen before. 1 SAE is just
                                                                                                                                        going up and down up and down (constantly) the front of the tank.
                                                                                                                                        Occasionally he is joined by another SAE, but generally the other 2 are
                                                                                                                                        behaving normally. By the way, the front of the tank has some water current
                                                                                                                                        down it.

                                                                                                                                        My first thought was oxygen deprivation (SAE's being fast moving river
                                                                                                                                        fish), so I pulled the CO2 over night and placed it back in this morning but
                                                                                                                                        the they are still doing it this morning... (all 3 just started doing it
                                                                                                                                        then)

                                                                                                                                        Any other ideas? I don't know whether to let it go, or whether to be
                                                                                                                                        worried.

                                                                                                                                        All the other fish in the tank are behaving normally.

                                                                                                                                        Tim
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1790 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/17/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: SAE behaviour
                                                                                                                                        I don't know what's wrong with the SAE, but I'd guess, since fish of the same species are histologicaaly different, he could have been effected bu the chemicals .
                                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                                                        > Hi Guys,
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yesterday I added presoaked driftwood, rearranged the tank, added lots of
                                                                                                                                        > new plants (hairgrass, hornwort, 2 crypts), did a 50% water change.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I also added 10 Neon Tetras which when I got them home I realised had some
                                                                                                                                        > reasonably severe tailrot and/or fungal infections - unfortunately I don't
                                                                                                                                        > have a quarantine tank yet..
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > So I treated with Melafix, Furon-2 and Quinine Hydrochloride/malachite
                                                                                                                                        > green, in the hope of knocking out any parasites and bacterial infections
                                                                                                                                        > and giving the fish a fighting start to recovery.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Last night I noticed SAE behaviour that I hadn't seen before. 1 SAE is just
                                                                                                                                        > going up and down up and down (constantly) the front of the tank.
                                                                                                                                        > Occasionally he is joined by another SAE, but generally the other 2 are
                                                                                                                                        > behaving normally. By the way, the front of the tank has some water current
                                                                                                                                        > down it.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > My first thought was oxygen deprivation (SAE's being fast moving river
                                                                                                                                        > fish), so I pulled the CO2 over night and placed it back in this morning but

                                                                                                                                        > the they are still doing it this morning... (all 3 just started doing it
                                                                                                                                        > then)
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Any other ideas? I don't know whether to let it go, or whether to be
                                                                                                                                        > worried.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > All the other fish in the tank are behaving normally.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Tim
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1791 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/17/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: SAE behaviour
                                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] SAE behaviour That was my guess (hope) too,  a temporary behaviour change in response to the chemicals added to the tank.




                                                                                                                                        On 18/4/04 12:30 PM, "j.pascavage@..." <j.pascavage@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                          I don't know what's wrong with the SAE, but I'd guess, since fish of the same species are histologicaaly different, he could have been effected bu the chemicals .
                                                                                                                                                               Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                        > Hi Guys,
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yesterday I added presoaked driftwood, rearranged the tank, added lots of
                                                                                                                                        > new plants (hairgrass, hornwort, 2 crypts), did a 50% water change.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I also added 10 Neon Tetras which when I got them home I realised had some
                                                                                                                                        > reasonably severe tailrot and/or fungal infections - unfortunately I don't
                                                                                                                                        > have a quarantine tank yet..
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > So I treated with Melafix, Furon-2 and Quinine Hydrochloride/malachite
                                                                                                                                        > green, in the hope of knocking out any parasites and bacterial infections
                                                                                                                                        > and giving the fish a fighting start to recovery.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Last night I noticed SAE behaviour that I hadn't seen before. 1 SAE is just
                                                                                                                                        > going up and down up and down (constantly) the front of the tank.
                                                                                                                                        > Occasionally he is joined by another SAE, but generally the other 2 are
                                                                                                                                        > behaving normally. By the way, the front of the tank has some water current
                                                                                                                                        > down it.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > My first thought was oxygen deprivation (SAE's being fast moving river
                                                                                                                                        > fish), so I pulled the CO2 over night and placed it back in this morning but

                                                                                                                                        > the they are still doing it this morning... (all 3 just started doing it
                                                                                                                                        > then)
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Any other ideas? I don't know whether to let it go, or whether to be
                                                                                                                                        > worried.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > All the other fish in the tank are behaving normally.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Tim
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1792 From: Matt Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                        Hello!

                                                                                                                                        Me and my partner (how's the good English?) have got a tropical fish aquarium.  We just recently purchased some new fish including three new Angel fish.  Unfortunately, one died a couple of weeks after we got it - I found it stuck to the filter suction pipe ala Finding Nemo!  :-(  There was nothing wrong with it before hand and it was a little one so I thought it was just an awful accident.  But yesterday we discovered that our white angel has got some kind of white, almost cotton-woolly stuff on it, especially one large clump of it on her/his side fin.  I am very worried.  Does anyone know what this might be and how we can deal with it?  I would be very upset if it died as my mum bought this fish for me.

                                                                                                                                        Nice to be in this group!

                                                                                                                                        Chat to you all very soon I hope!

                                                                                                                                        Matty.










                                                                                                                                        "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                        Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1793 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: my 1st live plant
                                                                                                                                        I bought my 1st live plant yesterday. Anubias barter v. "nana" slow
                                                                                                                                        growing, hardy, low light. I bought it in a pot and have left it in
                                                                                                                                        it's pot. I also bought some planttabbs was told to place the tablet
                                                                                                                                        near the plant, and use every 10 days. I'am very new to live plants
                                                                                                                                        for aquuariums. I'm kind of doing this just as a experiment. "kind of
                                                                                                                                        see if I "can" sort of thing" Its in my 5 hex tank, with not that
                                                                                                                                        good of lighting. The tank is placed near a window, I plan on opening
                                                                                                                                        the shade on the window for abit during the day to let the light in.
                                                                                                                                        But other the that I have no other plans at this time. I'm looking
                                                                                                                                        forward to leaning more about live plants. Only time will tell. And I
                                                                                                                                        will watch for changes in my new plant and any died matter. "wish me
                                                                                                                                        luck!! Sherrie
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1794 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Looking for a "good" Saltwater Aquarium group
                                                                                                                                        We also bought a Saltwater aquarium yesterday, was going to to
                                                                                                                                        leave this up to my hubby to handle I have no idea about saltwater
                                                                                                                                        fish or how to take care of such a tank. BUT "lol" I love to learn
                                                                                                                                        and get very curious so what the heck right? I think there is more
                                                                                                                                        room in my head (if I shake it real hard) Thanks Sherrie
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1795 From: red-eye Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: tiger barbs
                                                                                                                                        Is there any truth to the following? Tiger barbs will only do well, in a community tank, & not nip at other fish, when kept in schools of 3 or more.
                                                                                                                                        The 60 tank is heavily planted.
                                                                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                                                                        red-eye

                                                                                                                                        <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                        <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                        Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                        The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                        If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                        http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                        <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                        For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                        http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                        ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
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                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                        Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                        Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                        ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1796 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: tiger barbs

                                                                                                                                        Statement is Absolutly “False”. Anything less then 5-6 tiger barbs is a disaster. I have tried 3-4 and failed. They would go about nipping anything in their sight. You have to be carefull while stocking them. Though they are good community fish but have a aggressive temperament.

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                                        From: red-eye [mailto:r_ohle@...]
                                                                                                                                        Sent: 18 April 2004 19:29
                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] tiger barbs

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        Is there any truth to the following? Tiger barbs will only do well, in a community tank, & not nip at other fish, when kept in schools of 3 or more.

                                                                                                                                        The 60 tank is heavily planted.

                                                                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                                                                        red-eye

                                                                                                                                        <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                        <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                        Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                        The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                        If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                        http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                        <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                        For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                        http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                        ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                        Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                        Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                        ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1797 From: red-eye Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Cleaning dirty ornaments ...
                                                                                                                                        bleach & rinse..rinse..rinse



                                                                                                                                        At 12:17 AM 4/14/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                        Although I still performed weekly partial water changes and made sure
                                                                                                                                        that the water conditions were still ideal for my platys, I was not
                                                                                                                                        paying too much attention to the ornaments within my tank,
                                                                                                                                        specifically the artificial coral that they love to swim
                                                                                                                                        around/through.

                                                                                                                                        Now, I have a rock that is stained with droppings/dirt.  Rinsing it
                                                                                                                                        off does not seem to remove the stains.  Scrubbing the rock does not
                                                                                                                                        help either.  Is there a way to remove the dirt?  Or, should I just
                                                                                                                                        concede that fact that the rock is going to remain stained?  Any
                                                                                                                                        suggestions/tricks would be greatly appreciated.




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                                                                                                                                        Regards
                                                                                                                                        red-eye

                                                                                                                                        <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                        <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                        Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                        The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                        If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                        http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                        <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                        For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                        http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                        ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                        Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                        Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                        ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1798 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Cleaning dirty ornaments ...
                                                                                                                                        I must confess that I use bleach to clean some of my gravel. (some of the topmost that occasionally sprouts black-hair-algae.) I'm sure rinsing is'nt going to eliminate the sodium-hypochlorite (bleach) from my gravel, though I do rinse it 'till the smell and water-color seem appropriate, I soak it then in water with de-chlorinator, then rinse again, very thoroughly, and then boil it for an hour or more. As for discoloration on rocks, you could try pouring peroxide, or soaking it in peroxide to see if it works the stain. Then I'd still recommend rinsing and boiling. I don't know the physics of rocks, insofar as 'how far the bleach will seep into pores or whatever, so I have'nt tried using bleach on rocks.
                                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1799 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Cleaning dirty ornaments ...
                                                                                                                                        JUNGLE-LABS makes products to clean aquarium stuff. Just follow directions.
                                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1800 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: snails
                                                                                                                                        Hello,
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I have a question:
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Are snails pest to the aquarium (or fish ponds)?
                                                                                                                                        Do they eat the leaves of the plants?
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Thanks.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        -Ben-
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1801 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Looking for a "good" Saltwater Aquarium group
                                                                                                                                        I have had great success and great falure, just let us know how it's
                                                                                                                                        goinig, we'll try to advise as needed cause we care about the fish, Rob
                                                                                                                                        and Joyce.

                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1802 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                        it depends on what you view as a pest, and it depends on what type of
                                                                                                                                        snails you're talking about...
                                                                                                                                        i have apple snails that don't touch my plants at all and they're
                                                                                                                                        certainly not pests...
                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                        On Apr 19, 2004, at 1:54 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:

                                                                                                                                        > Hello,
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > I have a question:
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > Are snails pest to the aquarium (or fish ponds)?
                                                                                                                                        > Do they eat the leaves of the plants?
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > -Ben-
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1803 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                        thanks.

                                                                                                                                        I do not know what kind of snails they are. It just appeared in our fish
                                                                                                                                        pond, and they are always on plant leaves. Some of them are just floating on
                                                                                                                                        the water.
                                                                                                                                        The snails are color black, they are small (like fat dog fleas), and their
                                                                                                                                        shells are oblong-shaped.

                                                                                                                                        -Ben

                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                        To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:06 PM
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails


                                                                                                                                        > it depends on what you view as a pest, and it depends on what type of
                                                                                                                                        > snails you're talking about...
                                                                                                                                        > i have apple snails that don't touch my plants at all and they're
                                                                                                                                        > certainly not pests...
                                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                                        > On Apr 19, 2004, at 1:54 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > I have a question:
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > Are snails pest to the aquarium (or fish ponds)?
                                                                                                                                        > > Do they eat the leaves of the plants?
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > -Ben-
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        > > Service.
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1804 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: tiger barbs
                                                                                                                                        Try schools of ten or more. In nature, there is nothing less than 10-20
                                                                                                                                        or more fish, many times in the hundreds. In PetsMartland, schools are
                                                                                                                                        3 or more, bullcrap in nature, but it's PetsMart, screw nature........,
                                                                                                                                        let's buy fish as assorted cichlids and so forth, the hobbiest will
                                                                                                                                        figure it out.....

                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1805 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/18/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                        ah, well, those are indeed what most consider to be "pest" snails. they
                                                                                                                                        are less so in an outdoor pond and will mostly subsist on algae and
                                                                                                                                        rotting food. they won't destroy your plants in an outdoor pond and i
                                                                                                                                        would think that they best way to get rid of them in that situation is
                                                                                                                                        to introduce either a few crayfish or a turtle to the water.
                                                                                                                                        even a large slider won't eat your koi (but they LOVE snails) and the
                                                                                                                                        same with crayfish...
                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                        On Apr 19, 2004, at 2:09 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:

                                                                                                                                        > thanks.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I do not know what kind of snails they are. It just appeared in our
                                                                                                                                        > fish
                                                                                                                                        > pond, and they are always on plant leaves. Some of them are just
                                                                                                                                        > floating on
                                                                                                                                        > the water.
                                                                                                                                        > The snails are color black, they are small (like fat dog fleas), and
                                                                                                                                        > their
                                                                                                                                        > shells are oblong-shaped.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > -Ben
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                        > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:06 PM
                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >> it depends on what you view as a pest, and it depends on what type of
                                                                                                                                        >> snails you're talking about...
                                                                                                                                        >> i have apple snails that don't touch my plants at all and they're
                                                                                                                                        >> certainly not pests...
                                                                                                                                        >> amalthea
                                                                                                                                        >> On Apr 19, 2004, at 1:54 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>> Hello,
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> I have a question:
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> Are snails pest to the aquarium (or fish ponds)?
                                                                                                                                        >>> Do they eat the leaves of the plants?
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> Thanks.
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> -Ben-
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        >>> Service.
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1806 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                        ohh... i see..
                                                                                                                                        thanks for the info!
                                                                                                                                        I guess adding a turtle would be cute . ^_^

                                                                                                                                        But, will corydoras and loaches eat these snails?

                                                                                                                                        Thanks.

                                                                                                                                        -Ben

                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                        To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:47 PM
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails


                                                                                                                                        > ah, well, those are indeed what most consider to be "pest" snails. they
                                                                                                                                        > are less so in an outdoor pond and will mostly subsist on algae and
                                                                                                                                        > rotting food. they won't destroy your plants in an outdoor pond and i
                                                                                                                                        > would think that they best way to get rid of them in that situation is
                                                                                                                                        > to introduce either a few crayfish or a turtle to the water.
                                                                                                                                        > even a large slider won't eat your koi (but they LOVE snails) and the
                                                                                                                                        > same with crayfish...
                                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                                        > On Apr 19, 2004, at 2:09 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > > thanks.
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > I do not know what kind of snails they are. It just appeared in our
                                                                                                                                        > > fish
                                                                                                                                        > > pond, and they are always on plant leaves. Some of them are just
                                                                                                                                        > > floating on
                                                                                                                                        > > the water.
                                                                                                                                        > > The snails are color black, they are small (like fat dog fleas), and
                                                                                                                                        > > their
                                                                                                                                        > > shells are oblong-shaped.
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > -Ben
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        > > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                        > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:06 PM
                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >> it depends on what you view as a pest, and it depends on what type of
                                                                                                                                        > >> snails you're talking about...
                                                                                                                                        > >> i have apple snails that don't touch my plants at all and they're
                                                                                                                                        > >> certainly not pests...
                                                                                                                                        > >> amalthea
                                                                                                                                        > >> On Apr 19, 2004, at 1:54 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Hello,
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> I have a question:
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Are snails pest to the aquarium (or fish ponds)?
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Do they eat the leaves of the plants?
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Thanks.
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> -Ben-
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        > >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Service.
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        > >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1807 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                        yes, they would, but in an outdoor pond, it would depend on the climate
                                                                                                                                        you live in, they can't winter over and koy and corys/loaches don't
                                                                                                                                        like the same water temp!
                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                        On Apr 19, 2004, at 3:10 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:

                                                                                                                                        > ohh... i see..
                                                                                                                                        > thanks for the info!
                                                                                                                                        > I guess adding a turtle would be cute . ^_^
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > But, will corydoras and loaches eat these snails?
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > -Ben
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                        > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:47 PM
                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >> ah, well, those are indeed what most consider to be "pest" snails.
                                                                                                                                        >> they
                                                                                                                                        >> are less so in an outdoor pond and will mostly subsist on algae and
                                                                                                                                        >> rotting food. they won't destroy your plants in an outdoor pond and i
                                                                                                                                        >> would think that they best way to get rid of them in that situation is
                                                                                                                                        >> to introduce either a few crayfish or a turtle to the water.
                                                                                                                                        >> even a large slider won't eat your koi (but they LOVE snails) and the
                                                                                                                                        >> same with crayfish...
                                                                                                                                        >> amalthea
                                                                                                                                        >> On Apr 19, 2004, at 2:09 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>> thanks.
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> I do not know what kind of snails they are. It just appeared in our
                                                                                                                                        >>> fish
                                                                                                                                        >>> pond, and they are always on plant leaves. Some of them are just
                                                                                                                                        >>> floating on
                                                                                                                                        >>> the water.
                                                                                                                                        >>> The snails are color black, they are small (like fat dog fleas), and
                                                                                                                                        >>> their
                                                                                                                                        >>> shells are oblong-shaped.
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> -Ben
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        >>> From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                        >>> To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                        >>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:06 PM
                                                                                                                                        >>> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>> it depends on what you view as a pest, and it depends on what type
                                                                                                                                        >>>> of
                                                                                                                                        >>>> snails you're talking about...
                                                                                                                                        >>>> i have apple snails that don't touch my plants at all and they're
                                                                                                                                        >>>> certainly not pests...
                                                                                                                                        >>>> amalthea
                                                                                                                                        >>>> On Apr 19, 2004, at 1:54 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> Hello,
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> I have a question:
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> Are snails pest to the aquarium (or fish ponds)?
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> Do they eat the leaves of the plants?
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> Thanks.
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> -Ben-
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        >>>>> Service.
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        >>>> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                        web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1808 From: Matt Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: white stuff
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hello!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I'm new to the group and desperate for help!!!!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Me and my partner (how's the good English?) have got a tropical fish aquarium.  We just recently purchased some new fish including three new Angel fish.  Unfortunately, one died a couple of weeks after we got it - I found it stuck to the filter suction pipe ala Finding Nemo!  :-(  There was nothing wrong with it before hand and it was a little one so I thought it was just an awful accident.  But yesterday we discovered that our white angel has got some kind of white, almost cotton-woolly stuff on it, especially one large clump of it on her/his side fin.  I am very worried. 
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        This morning I found the fish dead.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Does anyone know what this might be and how we can deal with it? The other fish seem fine.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Nice to be in this group!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Chat to you all very soon I hope!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Matt.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                        Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1809 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        Just thought I'd throw out a photo of my 8 gallon tank that I spent way too
                                                                                                                                        much time arranging on the w/e.

                                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                                        Tim
                                                                                                                                        http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.JPG
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1810 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        Hi Tim,

                                                                                                                                        Thats a pretty beautiful tank setup u have in there.
                                                                                                                                        Thanks for sharing the photos..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                        --- Tim Walker <twalker@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > Just thought I'd throw out a photo of my 8 gallon
                                                                                                                                        > tank that I spent way too
                                                                                                                                        > much time arranging on the w/e.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                        > Tim
                                                                                                                                        > http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.JPG
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >





                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1811 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        Tim,
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         It looks great...... Do you by any chance have a picture of the outside of your 8 gallon?
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I have been looking for a decorative 5-6 gallon, but I dont really like a Squarebob Spongepants, Nemo or Barbie exterior on my tank.... LOL.... It seems like all I can find under a 10 gallon is made for kids or CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP... and I don't mean the price! 
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Date: 04/19/04 05:14:53
                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Just thought I'd throw out a photo of my 8 gallon tank that I spent way too
                                                                                                                                        much time arranging on the w/e.

                                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                                        Tim
                                                                                                                                        http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.JPG

                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1812 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        LOL, sure. I just took one for you. I had to use the flash so the fish are washed out but you can see the tank :-)
                                                                                                                                        http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0033.JPG

                                                                                                                                        I picked it up for $140 AUSSIE which is what US$80 ? At my local LFS.

                                                                                                                                        Cheers
                                                                                                                                        Tim


                                                                                                                                        On 19/4/04 9:32 PM, "~~Kelly~~" <dreamz64@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                        Tim,
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         It looks great...... Do you by any chance have a picture of the outside of your 8 gallon?
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I have been looking for a decorative 5-6 gallon, but I dont really like a Squarebob Spongepants, Nemo or Barbie exterior on my tank.... LOL.... It seems like all I can find under a 10 gallon is made for kids or CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP... and I don't mean the price!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                        From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Date: 04/19/04 05:14:53
                                                                                                                                        To: aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Cc: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Just thought I'd throw out a photo of my 8 gallon tank that I spent way too
                                                                                                                                        much time arranging on the w/e.

                                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                                        Tim
                                                                                                                                        http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.JPG



                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1813 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: white stuff
                                                                                                                                         Hi Matt...... I wish I had an answer for you, but I have absolutely NO luck with Angels.... I have tried MANY times and always lose them.  Here is a link that may help you! http://fins.actwin.com/disease/chart1.php     
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Date: 04/19/04 04:59:54
                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] white stuff
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hello!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I'm new to the group and desperate for help!!!!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Me and my partner (how's the good English?) have got a tropical fish aquarium.  We just recently purchased some new fish including three new Angel fish.  Unfortunately, one died a couple of weeks after we got it - I found it stuck to the filter suction pipe ala Finding Nemo!  :-(  There was nothing wrong with it before hand and it was a little one so I thought it was just an awful accident.  But yesterday we discovered that our white angel has got some kind of white, almost cotton-woolly stuff on it, especially one large clump of it on her/his side fin.  I am very worried. 
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        This morning I found the fish dead.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Does anyone know what this might be and how we can deal with it? The other fish seem fine.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Nice to be in this group!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Chat to you all very soon I hope!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Matt.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                        Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1814 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                         WOW...... No Barbie or SquareBob, or Blues Clues!  I KNEW they made them.... Now to just find one around here.....
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Thanks sooooo much for taking the time to take the picture and reply...... It looks great!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Date: 04/19/04 07:49:32
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        LOL, sure. I just took one for you. I had to use the flash so the fish are washed out but you can see the tank :-)
                                                                                                                                        http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0033.JPG

                                                                                                                                        I picked it up for $140 AUSSIE which is what US$80 ? At my local LFS.

                                                                                                                                        Cheers
                                                                                                                                        Tim


                                                                                                                                        On 19/4/04 9:32 PM, "~~Kelly~~" <dreamz64@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                        Tim,
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         It looks great...... Do you by any chance have a picture of the outside of your 8 gallon?
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I have been looking for a decorative 5-6 gallon, but I dont really like a Squarebob Spongepants, Nemo or Barbie exterior on my tank.... LOL.... It seems like all I can find under a 10 gallon is made for kids or CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP... and I don't mean the price!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                        From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Date: 04/19/04 05:14:53
                                                                                                                                        To: aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Cc: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Just thought I'd throw out a photo of my 8 gallon tank that I spent way too
                                                                                                                                        much time arranging on the w/e.

                                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                                        Tim
                                                                                                                                        http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.JPG



                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1815 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Have you looked at the Eclipse or Mini-Bow systems?
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Theresa
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:32 AM
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo

                                                                                                                                        Tim,
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         It looks great...... Do you by any chance have a picture of the outside of your 8 gallon?
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I have been looking for a decorative 5-6 gallon, but I dont really like a Squarebob Spongepants, Nemo or Barbie exterior on my tank.... LOL.... It seems like all I can find under a 10 gallon is made for kids or CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP... and I don't mean the price! 
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1816 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        If the stocks in your area are that limited, I’d consider mail (‘net) order as well :-)
                                                                                                                                        Tim


                                                                                                                                        On 19/4/04 10:45 PM, "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Have you looked at the Eclipse or Mini-Bow systems?

                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Theresa

                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        From:  ~~Kelly~~ <mailto:dreamz64@...>   
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com  
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:32 AM
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re:  [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                          Tim,
                                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                          It looks great...... Do you by any chance have a picture of  the outside of your 8 gallon?
                                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                         I have been looking for a decorative 5-6 gallon, but I dont  really like a Squarebob Spongepants, Nemo or Barbie exterior on my  tank.... LOL.... It seems like all I can find under a 10 gallon is  made for kids or CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP... and I don't mean the  price!
                                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                         Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1817 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 186
                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/19/04 9:39:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                        Then I'd still recommend rinsing and boiling. I don't know the physics of rocks, insofar as 'how far the bleach will seep into pores or whatever, so I have'nt tried using bleach on rocks.


                                                                                                                                        Here's the ole bleach controversy again.  It just so happens that I saw Heloise (who knows everything) on TV this morning.  She recommended a solution of 1 tablespoon of bleach to a cup of water to "clean" seashells before putting them in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1818 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 186
                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/19/04 9:39:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                        i have apple snails that don't touch my plants at all and they're
                                                                                                                                        certainly not pests...
                                                                                                                                        amalthea


                                                                                                                                        I would say you are very lucky.  My apple snails live primarily on a diet of lettuce.  I'm afraid if I put live plants in my aquarium, they just might mistake them for lettuce.
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1819 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        look up small eclipse set ups. there are small ones that are 6 gal. all
                                                                                                                                        over the us...
                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                        On Apr 19, 2004, at 8:04 AM, ~~Kelly~~ wrote:

                                                                                                                                        >  WOW...... No Barbie or SquareBob, or Blues Clues!  I KNEW they made
                                                                                                                                        > them.... Now to just find one around here.....
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > Thanks sooooo much for taking the time to take the picture and
                                                                                                                                        > reply...... It looks great!
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > Date: 04/19/04 07:49:32
                                                                                                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > LOL, sure. I just took one for you. I had to use the flash so the fish
                                                                                                                                        > are washed out but you can see the tank :-)
                                                                                                                                        > http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0033.JPG
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I picked it up for $140 AUSSIE which is what US$80 ? At my local LFS.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Cheers
                                                                                                                                        > Tim
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > On 19/4/04 9:32 PM, "~~Kelly~~" <dreamz64@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Tim,
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        >  It looks great...... Do you by any chance have a picture of the
                                                                                                                                        > outside of your 8 gallon?
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > I have been looking for a decorative 5-6 gallon, but I dont really
                                                                                                                                        > like a Squarebob Spongepants, Nemo or Barbie exterior on my tank....
                                                                                                                                        > LOL.... It seems like all I can find under a 10 gallon is made for
                                                                                                                                        > kids or CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP... and I don't mean the price!
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > Date: 04/19/04 05:14:53
                                                                                                                                        > To: aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > Cc: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > Just thought I'd throw out a photo of my 8 gallon tank that I spent
                                                                                                                                        > way to! o
                                                                                                                                        > much time arranging on the w/e.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Cheers,
                                                                                                                                        > Tim
                                                                                                                                        > http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.JPG
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                        for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                        religion....
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1820 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 186
                                                                                                                                        make sure they have access to algae wafers and some fish food and
                                                                                                                                        they'll leave your plants alone :)
                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                        On Apr 19, 2004, at 11:01 AM, DB1RDMAN@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 4/19/04 9:39:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > i have apple snails that don't touch my plants at all and they're
                                                                                                                                        > certainly not pests...
                                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I would say you are very lucky.  My apple snails live primarily on a
                                                                                                                                        > diet of lettuce.  I'm afraid if I put live plants in my aquarium, they
                                                                                                                                        > just might mistake them for lettuce.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                        for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                        religion....
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1821 From: renee31477 Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                        Hi Im new here and had questions along the same lines...I just set up
                                                                                                                                        my first aquarium (5G warm water-for a betta) and I put live plants
                                                                                                                                        in and noticed on the 3rd or 4th day of cycling that I had a little
                                                                                                                                        stow away....it is the same oblong shaped snail..and yesterday found
                                                                                                                                        another small one.

                                                                                                                                        what is the name of these snails?
                                                                                                                                        How big do they get?
                                                                                                                                        if I can keep one and just get rid of the any others that pop up( I
                                                                                                                                        have a box turtle that would probably eat them)...would he still be a
                                                                                                                                        pest in a 5 g tank?


                                                                                                                                        thanks

                                                                                                                                        Renee in MI


                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                        <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > ah, well, those are indeed what most consider to be "pest" snails.
                                                                                                                                        they
                                                                                                                                        > are less so in an outdoor pond and will mostly subsist on algae and
                                                                                                                                        > rotting food. they won't destroy your plants in an outdoor pond and
                                                                                                                                        i
                                                                                                                                        > would think that they best way to get rid of them in that situation
                                                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                                                        > to introduce either a few crayfish or a turtle to the water.
                                                                                                                                        > even a large slider won't eat your koi (but they LOVE snails) and
                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                        > same with crayfish...
                                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                                        > On Apr 19, 2004, at 2:09 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > > thanks.
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > I do not know what kind of snails they are. It just appeared in
                                                                                                                                        our
                                                                                                                                        > > fish
                                                                                                                                        > > pond, and they are always on plant leaves. Some of them are just
                                                                                                                                        > > floating on
                                                                                                                                        > > the water.
                                                                                                                                        > > The snails are color black, they are small (like fat dog fleas),
                                                                                                                                        and
                                                                                                                                        > > their
                                                                                                                                        > > shells are oblong-shaped.
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > -Ben
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        > > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@m...>
                                                                                                                                        > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                        > > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:06 PM
                                                                                                                                        > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >> it depends on what you view as a pest, and it depends on what
                                                                                                                                        type of
                                                                                                                                        > >> snails you're talking about...
                                                                                                                                        > >> i have apple snails that don't touch my plants at all and they're
                                                                                                                                        > >> certainly not pests...
                                                                                                                                        > >> amalthea
                                                                                                                                        > >> On Apr 19, 2004, at 1:54 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Hello,
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> I have a question:
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Are snails pest to the aquarium (or fish ponds)?
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Do they eat the leaves of the plants?
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Thanks.
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> -Ben-
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        > >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        > >>> Service.
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        > >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >>
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1822 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                        if you don't mind them, they're not pests. i tend to keep a couple in
                                                                                                                                        with my bettas to eat any food that the bettas miss, and if you scrape
                                                                                                                                        off excess eggs (little deposits of "jelly" with dots inside) they
                                                                                                                                        won't get out out of control...
                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                        On Apr 19, 2004, at 11:29 AM, renee31477 wrote:

                                                                                                                                        > Hi Im new here and had questions along the same lines...I just set up
                                                                                                                                        > my first aquarium (5G warm water-for a betta) and I put live plants
                                                                                                                                        > in and noticed on the 3rd or 4th day of cycling that I had a little
                                                                                                                                        > stow away....it is the same oblong shaped snail..and yesterday found
                                                                                                                                        > another small one.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > what is the name of these snails?
                                                                                                                                        > How big do they get?
                                                                                                                                        > if I can keep one and just get rid of the any others that pop up( I
                                                                                                                                        > have a box turtle that would probably eat them)...would he still be a
                                                                                                                                        > pest in a 5 g tank?
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Renee in MI
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                        > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > > ah, well, those are indeed what most consider to be "pest" snails.
                                                                                                                                        > they
                                                                                                                                        > > are less so in an outdoor pond and will mostly subsist on algae and
                                                                                                                                        > > rotting food. they won't destroy your plants in an outdoor pond and
                                                                                                                                        > i
                                                                                                                                        > > would think that they best way to get rid of them in that situation
                                                                                                                                        > is
                                                                                                                                        > > to introduce either a few crayfish or a turtle to the water.
                                                                                                                                        > > even a large slider won't eat your koi (but they LOVE snails) and
                                                                                                                                        > the
                                                                                                                                        > > same with crayfish...
                                                                                                                                        > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                        > > On Apr 19, 2004, at 2:09 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > > thanks.
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > > I do not know what kind of snails they are. It just appeared in
                                                                                                                                        > our
                                                                                                                                        > > > fish
                                                                                                                                        > > > pond, and they are always on plant leaves. Some of them are just
                                                                                                                                        > > > floating on
                                                                                                                                        > > > the water.
                                                                                                                                        > > > The snails are color black, they are small (like fat dog fleas),
                                                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                                                        > > > their
                                                                                                                                        > > > shells are oblong-shaped.
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > > -Ben
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        > > > From: "amalthea23" <amalthea23@m...>
                                                                                                                                        > > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                        > > > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:06 PM
                                                                                                                                        > > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >> it depends on what you view as a pest, and it depends on what
                                                                                                                                        > type of
                                                                                                                                        > > >> snails you're talking about...
                                                                                                                                        > > >> i have apple snails that don't touch my plants at all and they're
                                                                                                                                        > > >> certainly not pests...
                                                                                                                                        > > >> amalthea
                                                                                                                                        > > >> On Apr 19, 2004, at 1:54 AM, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> Hello,
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> I have a question:
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> Are snails pest to the aquarium (or fish ponds)?
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> Do they eat the leaves of the plants?
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> Thanks.
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> -Ben-
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        > > >>> Service.
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >> http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        > > >> don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >>
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                        > > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        > > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1823 From: keithblackketter Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: new and have a question
                                                                                                                                        i live in tomball, texas and have a decent tank going with
                                                                                                                                        livebearers, i recently received 30 baby gold sailfin mollies, so
                                                                                                                                        have them in other tank till i can give away or sell, now onto my
                                                                                                                                        questions, first, what is an easy and quick way to get some algae
                                                                                                                                        growing for my mollies, and second, someone told me that if you press
                                                                                                                                        some of the plastic grass that you get for easter baskets, press it
                                                                                                                                        into your filter, it makes and excellant medium. Is this true? I have
                                                                                                                                        a whisper power filter, and seems like i am changing it every week, i
                                                                                                                                        dont want to damage the good bacteria, but i want something that will
                                                                                                                                        help it last a little longer, thank you
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1824 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new and have a question
                                                                                                                                        an easy way to grow algae is to leave a tank near a window and make
                                                                                                                                        sure the surface is stagnant.
                                                                                                                                        as for easter grass, i would NOT put that in my tank. there is a filter
                                                                                                                                        medium (who's name escapes me at the moment, little help, anyone?) that
                                                                                                                                        looks like easter grass, that does last a long time and is relatively
                                                                                                                                        cheap, but i wouldn't recommend putting anything in your tank not
                                                                                                                                        specifically made for aquarium use. on top of this, easter grass when
                                                                                                                                        wet tends to get a bit slimy and i don't think that would be a good
                                                                                                                                        idea to have in the water...
                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                        On Apr 19, 2004, at 2:34 PM, keithblackketter wrote:

                                                                                                                                        > i live in tomball, texas and have a decent tank going with
                                                                                                                                        > livebearers, i recently received 30 baby gold sailfin mollies, so
                                                                                                                                        > have them in other tank till i can give away or sell, now onto my
                                                                                                                                        > questions, first, what is an easy and quick way to get some algae
                                                                                                                                        > growing for my mollies, and second, someone told me that if you press
                                                                                                                                        > some of the plastic grass that you get for easter baskets, press it
                                                                                                                                        > into your filter, it makes and excellant medium. Is this true? I have
                                                                                                                                        > a whisper power filter, and seems like i am changing it every week, i
                                                                                                                                        > dont want to damage the good bacteria, but i want something that will
                                                                                                                                        > help it last a little longer, thank you
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        >  
                                                                                                                                        > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                        > Service.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >


                                                                                                                                        http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                        don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1825 From: dindrane13 Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                        Do snails need real plants to be happy, or can someone with rocks and bogwood only
                                                                                                                                        house them successfully with just algae wafers, I'd guess?


                                                                                                                                        ~Erin Shoemate
                                                                                                                                        http://www.needcoffee.com

                                                                                                                                        http://pets.care2.com/
                                                                                                                                        http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1826 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 186
                                                                                                                                        er, H'lo,
                                                                                                                                        I would'nt believe everything I read or hear, and that includes Heloise. I sincerely believe there's more chlorine in the amount she recommends than is in the a chlorinated water supply of the same volume. And if you add de-chlorinator to water that you soak it (the seashell) in BEFORE adding it to the aquarium, you may not have allowed enough tome to allow the dechlorinator to dechlorinate. If it's not controversial to dechlorinate, either through chemical dechlorinator, or through evaporation, then it's not controversial to dechlorinate after soaking a seashell in bleach and water. My problem with bleach is;
                                                                                                                                        it's not chlorine, it's sodium hypochlorite, and I don't know how that behaves. I know I dropped one of my unfortunately dead fish into household bleach, and after a time, the body all but disappeared.
                                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1827 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new and have a question
                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 4/19/2004 2:34:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, keithblackketter@... writes:

                                                                                                                                        > , it makes and excellant medium. Is this true? I have
                                                                                                                                        > a whisper power filter, and seems like i am changing it every week, i
                                                                                                                                        > dont want to damage the good bacteria, but i want something
                                                                                                                                        > that will
                                                                                                                                        > help it last a little longer, thank you

                                                                                                                                        You can buy an aqua clear replacement sponge and cut it to fit. I buy the 500 replacement sponge and use it in a lot of different filters. I use them in my penguin biowheels, my whisper filters, My eclipse six tanks, I also use them for additional sponge filters for the aquaclear. Just wring them out in old tank water before you dump it and put it back in and the bacteria should still be in the sponge.

                                                                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1828 From: Matt Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: white stuff
                                                                                                                                        Thanks Kelly!  It means a lot for you to reply.  The Angel Fish has since died.  I'm going to keep a close eye on all the others and get some anti-fungul stuff to treat the tank.  Thanks for the link - according to it we seem to be doing everything properly.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                        Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:01 PM
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] white stuff

                                                                                                                                         Hi Matt...... I wish I had an answer for you, but I have absolutely NO luck with Angels.... I have tried MANY times and always lose them.  Here is a link that may help you! http://fins.actwin.com/disease/chart1.php     
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Date: 04/19/04 04:59:54
                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] white stuff
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hello!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I'm new to the group and desperate for help!!!!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Me and my partner (how's the good English?) have got a tropical fish aquarium.  We just recently purchased some new fish including three new Angel fish.  Unfortunately, one died a couple of weeks after we got it - I found it stuck to the filter suction pipe ala Finding Nemo!  :-(  There was nothing wrong with it before hand and it was a little one so I thought it was just an awful accident.  But yesterday we discovered that our white angel has got some kind of white, almost cotton-woolly stuff on it, especially one large clump of it on her/his side fin.  I am very worried. 
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        This morning I found the fish dead.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Does anyone know what this might be and how we can deal with it? The other fish seem fine.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Nice to be in this group!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Chat to you all very soon I hope!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Matt.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                        Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1829 From: summertyme1113 Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                        All of a sudden yesterday I noticed my male Betta is not doing well.
                                                                                                                                        He's been laying on the bottom of the tank. When I put in food he
                                                                                                                                        will eat but otherwise just lays there. He's no better today and I
                                                                                                                                        put my hand in and tickled his belly (I know that sounds weird) and
                                                                                                                                        he did swim around a little bit. His fins look very ragged and much
                                                                                                                                        shorter. He was fine, swimming around and being his usual
                                                                                                                                        gregarious self on Saturday and his fins looked fine. This is a 29
                                                                                                                                        gallon tank with 6 danio's 4 corydoras and 2 small pleco's.
                                                                                                                                        Moderately planted with live plants - wisteria, corkscrew & amazon
                                                                                                                                        swords. Is there a chance he got into a fight with the pleco's or
                                                                                                                                        something??? Everyone else in the tank is perfectly fine, there's
                                                                                                                                        no white spots or anything unusual on any of the fish or even on the
                                                                                                                                        Betta. Though his fins look shredded they are not "thin" if you
                                                                                                                                        know what I mean? All of the water tests are coming up fine for
                                                                                                                                        ammonia ("0") nitrates, nitrites. hardness (7.2) and chlorine. I
                                                                                                                                        don't have another tank that I can put him in right now. I haven't
                                                                                                                                        seen any other fish picking on him but who knows what goes on when
                                                                                                                                        the lights go out?! When I do put in food he is pretty active at
                                                                                                                                        going after the food but he waits until it hits the gravel before
                                                                                                                                        going for it - i.e. doesn't swim after it. I would hate to lose
                                                                                                                                        this guy!

                                                                                                                                        Any help is appreciated!!

                                                                                                                                        Peggy
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1830 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: my 1st live plant
                                                                                                                                        Hi Sherrie - Welcome to the group !

                                                                                                                                        Anubias is a nice plant which u can either plant in
                                                                                                                                        the gravel or tie to rocks, wood etc and it will grow.

                                                                                                                                        If u are placing the tabs then u will have to remove
                                                                                                                                        the plant from the pot and place the tab about 2" away
                                                                                                                                        from the plant.

                                                                                                                                        If u want to learn more about plants then visit this
                                                                                                                                        site.

                                                                                                                                        http://www.plantgeek.net//forum/

                                                                                                                                        All the best...SuNnY !


                                                                                                                                        --- freedombell2002 <KPribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > I bought my 1st live plant yesterday. Anubias barter
                                                                                                                                        > v. "nana" slow
                                                                                                                                        > growing, hardy, low light. I bought it in a pot and
                                                                                                                                        > have left it in
                                                                                                                                        > it's pot. I also bought some planttabbs was told to
                                                                                                                                        > place the tablet
                                                                                                                                        > near the plant, and use every 10 days. I'am very
                                                                                                                                        > new to live plants
                                                                                                                                        > for aquuariums. I'm kind of doing this just as a
                                                                                                                                        > experiment. "kind of
                                                                                                                                        > see if I "can" sort of thing" Its in my 5 hex tank,
                                                                                                                                        > with not that
                                                                                                                                        > good of lighting. The tank is placed near a window,
                                                                                                                                        > I plan on opening
                                                                                                                                        > the shade on the window for abit during the day to
                                                                                                                                        > let the light in.
                                                                                                                                        > But other the that I have no other plans at this
                                                                                                                                        > time. I'm looking
                                                                                                                                        > forward to leaning more about live plants. Only time
                                                                                                                                        > will tell. And I
                                                                                                                                        > will watch for changes in my new plant and any died
                                                                                                                                        > matter. "wish me
                                                                                                                                        > luck!! Sherrie
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >





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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1831 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: tiger barbs
                                                                                                                                        Yes thats what i have read but have had no experience
                                                                                                                                        keeping them...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                        --- red-eye <r_ohle@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Is there any truth to the following? Tiger barbs
                                                                                                                                        > will only do well, in a
                                                                                                                                        > community tank, & not nip at other fish, when kept
                                                                                                                                        > in schools of 3 or more.
                                                                                                                                        > The 60 tank is heavily planted.
                                                                                                                                        > Regards
                                                                                                                                        > red-eye
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        > The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                        > <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Make sure you check out these URLs
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                        > If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        <http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml>http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                        > <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        > Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                        > For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        <http://www.sulcata-station.org>http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                        > ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        > The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                        > Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                        > Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                        > ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                        >





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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1832 From: Tony Bittick Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: think I have Ich.
                                                                                                                                        Pretty sure I've got it.

                                                                                                                                        One of my clowns definitely has white spots on his tail and a couple on his
                                                                                                                                        head. One of my small Tigers seems to have it too.

                                                                                                                                        It's 9:30 p.m. here and there isn't much I can do... I won't get home from
                                                                                                                                        work tomorrow until late and will be gone at 6:00.

                                                                                                                                        The tank has...

                                                                                                                                        six small Tiger Barbs
                                                                                                                                        Eight Phantom Tetras
                                                                                                                                        One bristle nose cat
                                                                                                                                        Three rainbow sharks
                                                                                                                                        Two pictus cats
                                                                                                                                        Two otos...

                                                                                                                                        Is there ANYTHING I can do? Or anything I can have my wife do while I'm
                                                                                                                                        gone tomorrow?

                                                                                                                                        I've heard such mixed things when it comes to ICH and the loaches and the cats.

                                                                                                                                        Can I start with some salt?

                                                                                                                                        The thing that confuses me is the water temp has been around 80 degrees
                                                                                                                                        pretty regularly. In fact, I've been trying to bring it down.

                                                                                                                                        I added some plants yesterday I bought at Meijers and am wondering if
                                                                                                                                        that's how it got in the tank.

                                                                                                                                        Don't really know if that's as important as what I do now.

                                                                                                                                        Help would be appreciated.

                                                                                                                                        Tony

                                                                                                                                        FWIW, right this minute everybody seems healthy happy and is eating.
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1833 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: sand
                                                                                                                                        Hello,
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I'm just wondering if it is OK to put beach sand (white one) inside our fish pond.
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Thanks.
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1834 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: sand
                                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] sand
                                                                                                                                        I would expect with beach sand you will end up with hardness problems very very quickly.
                                                                                                                                        Try river sand of children’s play sand.

                                                                                                                                        Tim


                                                                                                                                        On 20/4/04 11:44 AM, "Benedick Mark N. Chan" <bmchan@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                        Hello,

                                                                                                                                        I'm just wondering if it is OK to put beach sand (white one) inside our fish pond.

                                                                                                                                        Thanks.

                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1835 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/19/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: white stuff
                                                                                                                                        Hi Matt,

                                                                                                                                        Sorry about your fish, but here is one more link to
                                                                                                                                        the disease section..

                                                                                                                                        http://www.bluebin.com/disease.html

                                                                                                                                        Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                        --- Matt <mrwb@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > Thanks Kelly! It means a lot for you to reply. The
                                                                                                                                        > Angel Fish has since died. I'm going to keep a
                                                                                                                                        > close eye on all the others and get some anti-fungul
                                                                                                                                        > stuff to treat the tank. Thanks for the link -
                                                                                                                                        > according to it we seem to be doing everything
                                                                                                                                        > properly.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will
                                                                                                                                        > ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                        > Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                        > From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                                                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:01 PM
                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                        > white stuff
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Hi Matt...... I wish I had an answer for
                                                                                                                                        > you, but I have absolutely NO luck with Angels.... I
                                                                                                                                        > have tried MANY times and always lose them. Here is
                                                                                                                                        > a link that may help you!
                                                                                                                                        > http://fins.actwin.com/disease/chart1.php
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > From:
                                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > Date: 04/19/04 04:59:54
                                                                                                                                        > To:
                                                                                                                                        > FreshWaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                        > white stuff
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Hello!
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I'm new to the group and desperate for
                                                                                                                                        > help!!!!
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Me and my partner (how's the good English?)
                                                                                                                                        > have got a tropical fish aquarium. We just recently
                                                                                                                                        > purchased some new fish including three new Angel
                                                                                                                                        > fish. Unfortunately, one died a couple of weeks
                                                                                                                                        > after we got it - I found it stuck to the filter
                                                                                                                                        > suction pipe ala Finding Nemo! :-( There was
                                                                                                                                        > nothing wrong with it before hand and it was a
                                                                                                                                        > little one so I thought it was just an awful
                                                                                                                                        > accident. But yesterday we discovered that our
                                                                                                                                        > white angel has got some kind of white, almost
                                                                                                                                        > cotton-woolly stuff on it, especially one large
                                                                                                                                        > clump of it on her/his side fin. I am very worried.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > This morning I found the fish dead.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Does anyone know what this might be and how
                                                                                                                                        > we can deal with it? The other fish seem fine.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Nice to be in this group!
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Chat to you all very soon I hope!
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Matt.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger
                                                                                                                                        > we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                        > Please check out my new website
                                                                                                                                        > www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                        > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                                                                                                                                        > email to:
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >





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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1836 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: think I have Ich.
                                                                                                                                        Hi Tony,

                                                                                                                                        Check this out..

                                                                                                                                        http://freshaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fishdoc.co.uk%2Fdisease%2Fclinicalsigns.htm

                                                                                                                                        Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                        --- Tony Bittick <tbittick@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                        > Pretty sure I've got it.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > One of my clowns definitely has white spots on his
                                                                                                                                        > tail and a couple on his
                                                                                                                                        > head. One of my small Tigers seems to have it too.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > It's 9:30 p.m. here and there isn't much I can do...
                                                                                                                                        > I won't get home from
                                                                                                                                        > work tomorrow until late and will be gone at 6:00.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > The tank has...
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > six small Tiger Barbs
                                                                                                                                        > Eight Phantom Tetras
                                                                                                                                        > One bristle nose cat
                                                                                                                                        > Three rainbow sharks
                                                                                                                                        > Two pictus cats
                                                                                                                                        > Two otos...
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Is there ANYTHING I can do? Or anything I can have
                                                                                                                                        > my wife do while I'm
                                                                                                                                        > gone tomorrow?
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I've heard such mixed things when it comes to ICH
                                                                                                                                        > and the loaches and the cats.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Can I start with some salt?
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > The thing that confuses me is the water temp has
                                                                                                                                        > been around 80 degrees
                                                                                                                                        > pretty regularly. In fact, I've been trying to bring
                                                                                                                                        > it down.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > I added some plants yesterday I bought at Meijers
                                                                                                                                        > and am wondering if
                                                                                                                                        > that's how it got in the tank.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Don't really know if that's as important as what I
                                                                                                                                        > do now.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Help would be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > Tony
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        > FWIW, right this minute everybody seems healthy
                                                                                                                                        > happy and is eating.
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                        >





                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1837 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        Very nicely done 8 gallon, Tim. What do you use for lights?

                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1838 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo

                                                                                                                                        Wonderful,

                                                                                                                                        That is indeed a very good looking tank, but I am crippled at the thought to small tanks L I could never get enough in my 90 and 105 gallons, I wonder how can I keep a 6 gallon.. my wife also loved it ;)

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                                        From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                        Sent: 19 April 2004 12:49
                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo

                                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                                        LOL, sure. I just took one for you. I had to use the flash so the fish are washed out but you can see the tank :-)
                                                                                                                                        http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0033.JPG

                                                                                                                                        I picked it up for $140 AUSSIE which is what US$80 ? At my local LFS.

                                                                                                                                        Cheers
                                                                                                                                        Tim


                                                                                                                                        On 1 9/4/04 9:32 PM , "~~Kelly~~" <dreamz64@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                        Tim,
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         It looks great...... Do you by any chance have a picture of the outside of your 8 gallon?
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        I have been looking for a decorative 5-6 gallon, but I dont really like a Squarebob Spongepants, Nemo or Barbie exterior on my tank.... LOL.... It seems like all I can find under a 10 gallon is made for kids or CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP... and I don't mean the price!
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                        From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Date: 04/19/04 05:14:53
                                                                                                                                        To: aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Cc: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                        Just thought I'd throw out a photo of my 8 gallon tank that I spent way too
                                                                                                                                        much time arranging on the w/e.

                                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                                        Tim
                                                                                                                                        http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.JPG


                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1839 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                        Kelly, the Eclipse systems are great little tanks with a good filter in
                                                                                                                                        the hood. You can find the Explorer version on Star Trek Enterprise.
                                                                                                                                        Dr Flox uses them to house his critters and it's good to know Marineland
                                                                                                                                        will be around in 3 hundred years for parts :-) .

                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 1840 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: white stuff
                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                          Do you use salt? What temp do you keep your tank, pH, ammo, nitrite,
                                                                                                                                          nitrate levels? How do you introduce new fish and what stock level do
                                                                                                                                          you keep? How often do you do maintenence? Did you clean things up
                                                                                                                                          right before adding them?

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1841 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                          2 things, danios have been known to harrass other fish, do you ever put
                                                                                                                                          a mirror near the tank so he thinks he's got competition? An hour a day
                                                                                                                                          should be enough to spark him into showoff mode.

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1842 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: think I have Ich.
                                                                                                                                          Plants didn't cause any illness most likely. You mentioned trying to
                                                                                                                                          bring the temp down, that's the most likely cause. Temp changes are a
                                                                                                                                          drag for fish. If you have it at 80, leave it there. That's perfect.
                                                                                                                                          I'd add salt, though. I always use it in my tanks. If the illness
                                                                                                                                          progresses after a decent water change, then consider raising the temp
                                                                                                                                          to 84* Ich can't form the cyst that we recognize as the white dots at
                                                                                                                                          that temp. The cyst will protect the parasite from meds. But my usual
                                                                                                                                          advice is to get the temp stable before medicating. Is your tank
                                                                                                                                          "aquascaped" or do you just have a few plants? If you do end up having
                                                                                                                                          to medicate and can remove the plants without destroying the overall
                                                                                                                                          appearance of the tank, I'd recommend Coppersafe. Inexpensive but
                                                                                                                                          effective, especially at 84*. I haven't been impressed with Rid Ich or
                                                                                                                                          any of the other dye based medications. Many kill your biological
                                                                                                                                          filter beds, compounding the problems.

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1843 From: keithblackketter Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: another question
                                                                                                                                          as you may have read on my last post i have numerous mollie fry in a
                                                                                                                                          tank till they get bigger, i do water changes every morning at least
                                                                                                                                          50% this is good right as i only have a heater and air stone in
                                                                                                                                          tyhere right now till i get a sponge filter. i also feed them
                                                                                                                                          crushed , finely crushed, flake food 3 to 4 times a day, does all
                                                                                                                                          this seem good?? i also add some salt to the tank.
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1844 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: another question
                                                                                                                                          What sort of tank do you have them in that doesn't have a filter? Even those
                                                                                                                                          itty bitty plastic "pet carriers" with the handles on the lids can be set up
                                                                                                                                          with a filter. Manufacturers got wise and made tiny disposable filters that
                                                                                                                                          fit in them just so. That's what I use for my emergency tank, got the whole
                                                                                                                                          set up at Walmart. I keep the tank empty when not in use, so the water doesn
                                                                                                                                          t stagnate and I'm not using up the filter unnecessarily, and just put in a
                                                                                                                                          fresh filter whenever I have to use it ... filter lasts a couple of weeks.
                                                                                                                                          Even better, the set up is really inexpensive, especially if you are able to
                                                                                                                                          transfer a small amount of the gravel from your established tank into the
                                                                                                                                          other one.

                                                                                                                                          That is what I used for my mollie's "fry tank" until they got big enough to
                                                                                                                                          transfer to the main tank. If they are about the length of your fingernail,
                                                                                                                                          they should be fast enough and smart enough to avoid any of the bigger fish
                                                                                                                                          eating them. Crushed flake food is peachy for them. One of the more
                                                                                                                                          experienced members will have to let you know if your daily water changes
                                                                                                                                          are sufficient until you get a filter set up. How big is the tank you are
                                                                                                                                          using? How much salt are you adding per gallon of water?

                                                                                                                                          For determining sex, you should be able to tell when they are about a month
                                                                                                                                          old, they should be big enough that you'll see the gonipodum. (did I spell
                                                                                                                                          that right??) At least mine were at that stage.

                                                                                                                                          Erin VanKouwenberg
                                                                                                                                          Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zig zag?


                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                          From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/20/04 12:08:20
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] another question

                                                                                                                                          as you may have read on my last post i have numerous mollie fry in a
                                                                                                                                          tank till they get bigger, i do water changes every morning at least
                                                                                                                                          50% this is good right as i only have a heater and air stone in
                                                                                                                                          tyhere right now till i get a sponge filter. i also feed them
                                                                                                                                          crushed , finely crushed, flake food 3 to 4 times a day, does all
                                                                                                                                          this seem good?? i also add some salt to the tank.
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1845 From: Matt Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: white stuff
                                                                                                                                          No salt.  Temp is 23-24 degrees celsius.  PH is normal and tested regularly.  How do I test nitrate levels again?
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                          Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 11:59 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] white stuff

                                                                                                                                          Do you use salt?  What temp do you keep your tank, pH, ammo, nitrite,
                                                                                                                                          nitrate levels?  How do you introduce new fish and what stock level do
                                                                                                                                          you keep?  How often do you do maintenence?  Did you clean things up
                                                                                                                                          right before adding them?

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1846 From: keithblackketter Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: another question
                                                                                                                                          the type of tank i have right now is a 2 gal upright, i do have a
                                                                                                                                          filter in it now, and i add about 1/2 teaspoon of aquarium salt with
                                                                                                                                          every water change, i have been feeding them the finely crushed food
                                                                                                                                          and they seem to do well on it, right now best measurement is 1.5 cm
                                                                                                                                          in length and that is after about 3-4 days, the temp stays at 80.




                                                                                                                                          In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                                                                                                          VanKouwenberg" <celticmommy@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > What sort of tank do you have them in that doesn't have a filter?
                                                                                                                                          Even those
                                                                                                                                          > itty bitty plastic "pet carriers" with the handles on the lids can
                                                                                                                                          be set up
                                                                                                                                          > with a filter. Manufacturers got wise and made tiny disposable
                                                                                                                                          filters that
                                                                                                                                          > fit in them just so. That's what I use for my emergency tank, got
                                                                                                                                          the whole
                                                                                                                                          > set up at Walmart. I keep the tank empty when not in use, so the
                                                                                                                                          water doesn
                                                                                                                                          > t stagnate and I'm not using up the filter unnecessarily, and just
                                                                                                                                          put in a
                                                                                                                                          > fresh filter whenever I have to use it ... filter lasts a couple of
                                                                                                                                          weeks.
                                                                                                                                          > Even better, the set up is really inexpensive, especially if you
                                                                                                                                          are able to
                                                                                                                                          > transfer a small amount of the gravel from your established tank
                                                                                                                                          into the
                                                                                                                                          > other one.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > That is what I used for my mollie's "fry tank" until they got big
                                                                                                                                          enough to
                                                                                                                                          > transfer to the main tank. If they are about the length of your
                                                                                                                                          fingernail,
                                                                                                                                          > they should be fast enough and smart enough to avoid any of the
                                                                                                                                          bigger fish
                                                                                                                                          > eating them. Crushed flake food is peachy for them. One of the more
                                                                                                                                          > experienced members will have to let you know if your daily water
                                                                                                                                          changes
                                                                                                                                          > are sufficient until you get a filter set up. How big is the tank
                                                                                                                                          you are
                                                                                                                                          > using? How much salt are you adding per gallon of water?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > For determining sex, you should be able to tell when they are about
                                                                                                                                          a month
                                                                                                                                          > old, they should be big enough that you'll see the gonipodum. (did
                                                                                                                                          I spell
                                                                                                                                          > that right??) At least mine were at that stage.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Erin VanKouwenberg
                                                                                                                                          > Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zig
                                                                                                                                          zag?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Date: 04/20/04 12:08:20
                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] another question
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > as you may have read on my last post i have numerous mollie fry in
                                                                                                                                          a
                                                                                                                                          > tank till they get bigger, i do water changes every morning at
                                                                                                                                          least
                                                                                                                                          > 50% this is good right as i only have a heater and air stone in
                                                                                                                                          > tyhere right now till i get a sponge filter. i also feed them
                                                                                                                                          > crushed , finely crushed, flake food 3 to 4 times a day, does all
                                                                                                                                          > this seem good?? i also add some salt to the tank.
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1847 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                          2 x 8watt 12” T5’s. Actually came with the tank.

                                                                                                                                          I’m trying not to get in there and “play” with things... it’s soooo tempting, but I really should just sit back and let it settle in for a little while.

                                                                                                                                          I changed the CO2 last night, replenished the yeast mix and (after removing the airstone) ran the line straight into the intake of the filter (back left).
                                                                                                                                          This is not the venturi intake though, I didn’t want to suck the yeast into the tank, it’s just bubbling under the intake...

                                                                                                                                          When a bubble is released the sound of a CO2 bubble hitting the rotor is pretty interesting :-) It filled the tank with a sea of tiny CO2 bubbles, so I would expect that to be a little more effective than the airstone, we shall see...  (monitoring pH etc).

                                                                                                                                          Thanks for all the nice comments.
                                                                                                                                          Tim




                                                                                                                                          On 20/4/04 11:28 PM, "bucks_boogie@..." <bucks_boogie@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                          Very nicely done 8 gallon, Tim.  What do you use for lights?

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1848 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                          Thanks :-)
                                                                                                                                          Just remember this is my play-thing until I move out and set the 75g back up :-) not quite a 105 but not an 8 either :-)
                                                                                                                                          Tim

                                                                                                                                          On 20/4/04 11:35 PM, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                          Wonderful,
                                                                                                                                          That is indeed a very good looking tank, but I am crippled at the thought to small tanks
                                                                                                                                          L I could never get enough in my 90 and 105 gallons, I wonder how can I keep a 6 gallon.. my wife also loved it ;)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Nim
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 19 April 2004 12:49
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo


                                                                                                                                          LOL, sure. I just took one for you. I had to use the flash so the fish are washed out but you can see the tank :-)
                                                                                                                                          http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0033.JPG

                                                                                                                                          I picked it up for $140 AUSSIE which is what US$80 ? At my local LFS.

                                                                                                                                          Cheers
                                                                                                                                          Tim


                                                                                                                                          On 19/4/04 9:32 PM, "~~Kelly~~" <dreamz64@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          Tim,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           It looks great...... Do you by any chance have a picture of the outside of your 8 gallon?
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I have been looking for a decorative 5-6 gallon, but I dont really like a Squarebob Spongepants, Nemo or Barbie exterior on my tank.... LOL.... It seems like all I can find under a 10 gallon is made for kids or CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP... and I don't mean the price!
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                          From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/19/04 05:14:53
                                                                                                                                          To: aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Cc: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi Guys - Here's a photo
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Just thought I'd throw out a photo of my 8 gallon tank that I spent way too
                                                                                                                                          much time arranging on the w/e.

                                                                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                                                                          Tim
                                                                                                                                          http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0016.JPG


                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1849 From: jamie kathan Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: I think I have ich
                                                                                                                                          > Inexpensive but
                                                                                                                                          > effective, especially at 84*. I haven't been
                                                                                                                                          > impressed with Rid Ich or
                                                                                                                                          > any of the other dye based medications. Many kill
                                                                                                                                          > your biological
                                                                                                                                          > filter beds, compounding the problems.
                                                                                                                                          >


                                                                                                                                          I haven't been impressed with Rid Ich, either. 84 is
                                                                                                                                          my tanks' magic # too. If my guys aren't feeling well,
                                                                                                                                          esp with something I suspect as ich..temp goes to 84
                                                                                                                                          over a few hours and add marine salt 1 tbsp per 10
                                                                                                                                          gallons. But that's just my recipe that I think is
                                                                                                                                          fairly close to standard.

                                                                                                                                          You may want to watch for icky stuff getting in with
                                                                                                                                          plants...not plants being the sole cause of an
                                                                                                                                          illness. Snails are the biggests prob with plants but
                                                                                                                                          easy to remedy. Certain stores I wont buy plants from
                                                                                                                                          because all the tanks filter thru each other and half
                                                                                                                                          the fish have fin rot or ich. ICK!

                                                                                                                                          Welp, there's my 3 cents <ching, ching, ching>

                                                                                                                                          ciao!
                                                                                                                                          Jamie





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                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1850 From: red-eye Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                          Sorry no answer..just a question. Can you mix a male betta in a community tank?



                                                                                                                                          At 03:54 PM 4/19/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                          All of a sudden yesterday I noticed my male Betta is not doing well.
                                                                                                                                          He's been laying on the bottom of the tank.  When I put in food he
                                                                                                                                          will eat but otherwise just lays there.  He's no better today and I
                                                                                                                                          put my hand in and tickled his belly (I know that sounds weird) and
                                                                                                                                          he did swim around a little bit.  His fins look very ragged and much
                                                                                                                                          shorter.  He was fine, swimming around and being his usual
                                                                                                                                          gregarious self on Saturday and his fins looked fine.  This is a 29
                                                                                                                                          gallon tank with 6 danio's 4 corydoras and 2 small pleco's.
                                                                                                                                          Moderately planted with live plants - wisteria, corkscrew & amazon
                                                                                                                                          swords. Is there a chance he got into a fight with the pleco's or
                                                                                                                                          something???  Everyone else in the tank is perfectly fine, there's
                                                                                                                                          no white spots or anything unusual on any of the fish or even on the
                                                                                                                                          Betta.  Though his fins look shredded they are not "thin" if you
                                                                                                                                          know what I mean?  All of the water tests are coming up fine for
                                                                                                                                          ammonia ("0") nitrates, nitrites. hardness (7.2) and chlorine.  I
                                                                                                                                          don't have another tank that I can put him in right now.  I haven't
                                                                                                                                          seen any other fish picking on him but who knows what goes on when
                                                                                                                                          the lights go out?!  When I do put in food he is pretty active at
                                                                                                                                          going after the food but he waits until it hits the gravel before
                                                                                                                                          going for it - i.e. doesn't swim after it.  I would hate to lose
                                                                                                                                          this guy!

                                                                                                                                          Any help is appreciated!!

                                                                                                                                          Peggy



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                                                                                                                                          Regards
                                                                                                                                          red-eye

                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                          Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                          The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                          If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                          http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                          For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                          http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                          ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
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                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                          Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                          Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                          ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1851 From: red-eye Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Question regarding driftwood
                                                                                                                                          probably tanic acid...same as in regular lipton tea. It won't hurt the inhabitants just the on lookers wanting a clear tank



                                                                                                                                          At 11:50 PM 4/15/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                          Hi,

                                                                                                                                          I bought a piece of African driftwood, and I read somewhere that it
                                                                                                                                          needed to soaked in water for a period of time before being placed in
                                                                                                                                          a tank.  I soaked it for about a week before placing it in my tank
                                                                                                                                          and in less than an hour the water was discolored.  Fearing that it
                                                                                                                                          would harm my fish, I quickly took it out and soaked it again.  Maybe
                                                                                                                                          this is why the driftwood needs to be pre-soaked?

                                                                                                                                          Anyway, it's been over a month and the driftwood continues to
                                                                                                                                          discolor the water in my tank every time I try to re-introduce it
                                                                                                                                          into the tank.

                                                                                                                                          Does anyone know if driftwood generally discolors the water?  Is
                                                                                                                                          there something that I can do to correct this?

                                                                                                                                          Fermin



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                                                                                                                                          Regards
                                                                                                                                          red-eye

                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                          Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                          The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                          If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                          http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                          For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                          http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                          ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
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                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                          Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                          Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                          ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1852 From: red-eye Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: tiger barbs
                                                                                                                                          Thanks for the tips on the tiger barbs. I now have 7 in a 60 gal with other fish and all seem to be doing OK...after the first few days together
                                                                                                                                          Thanks again for the reply
                                                                                                                                          Regards
                                                                                                                                          red-eye

                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                          Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                          The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                          If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                          http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                          For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                          http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                          ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                          Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                          Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                          ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1853 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                          Yes, absolutely. Sometimes they don’t get on with guppy’s and other display type fish but generally they get on with everything fine.
                                                                                                                                          Mine is in with neon’s, beacons, cory’s, SAE’s etc.

                                                                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                                                                          Tim


                                                                                                                                          On 21/4/04 4:21 PM, "red-eye" <r_ohle@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                          Sorry no answer..just a question. Can you mix a male betta in a community tank?



                                                                                                                                          At 03:54 PM 4/19/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                          All of a sudden yesterday I noticed my male Betta is not doing well.
                                                                                                                                          He's been laying on the bottom of the tank.  When I put in food he
                                                                                                                                          will eat but otherwise just lays there.  He's no better today and I
                                                                                                                                          put my hand in and tickled his belly (I know that sounds weird) and
                                                                                                                                          he did swim around a little bit.  His fins look very ragged and much
                                                                                                                                          shorter.  He was fine, swimming around and being his usual
                                                                                                                                          gregarious self on Saturday and his fins looked fine.  This is a 29
                                                                                                                                          gallon tank with 6 danio's 4 corydoras and 2 small pleco's.
                                                                                                                                          Moderately planted with live plants - wisteria, corkscrew & amazon
                                                                                                                                          swords. Is there a chance he got into a fight with the pleco's or
                                                                                                                                          something???  Everyone else in the tank is perfectly fine, there's
                                                                                                                                          no white spots or anything unusual on any of the fish or even on the
                                                                                                                                          Betta.  Though his fins look shredded they are not "thin" if you
                                                                                                                                          know what I mean?  All of the water tests are coming up fine for
                                                                                                                                          ammonia ("0") nitrates, nitrites. hardness (7.2) and chlorine.  I
                                                                                                                                          don't have another tank that I can put him in right now.  I haven't
                                                                                                                                          seen any other fish picking on him but who knows what goes on when
                                                                                                                                          the lights go out?!  When I do put in food he is pretty active at
                                                                                                                                          going after the food but he waits until it hits the gravel before
                                                                                                                                          going for it - i.e. doesn't swim after it.  I would hate to lose
                                                                                                                                          this guy!

                                                                                                                                          Any help is appreciated!!

                                                                                                                                          Peggy


                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1854 From: Chris Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                          It could be that he has been picked on by the other fish in the tank.
                                                                                                                                          I have found that if you put a betta in with other fish, the other
                                                                                                                                          fish tend to bite at the bettas tail. It is best to keep the male
                                                                                                                                          betta seprate from other fish, including female bettas!


                                                                                                                                          --- In
                                                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "summertyme1113"
                                                                                                                                          <peggy1155@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > All of a sudden yesterday I noticed my male Betta is not doing
                                                                                                                                          well.
                                                                                                                                          > He's been laying on the bottom of the tank. When I put in food he
                                                                                                                                          > will eat but otherwise just lays there. He's no better today and I
                                                                                                                                          > put my hand in and tickled his belly (I know that sounds weird) and
                                                                                                                                          > he did swim around a little bit. His fins look very ragged and
                                                                                                                                          much
                                                                                                                                          > shorter. He was fine, swimming around and being his usual
                                                                                                                                          > gregarious self on Saturday and his fins looked fine. This is a 29
                                                                                                                                          > gallon tank with 6 danio's 4 corydoras and 2 small pleco's.
                                                                                                                                          > Moderately planted with live plants - wisteria, corkscrew & amazon
                                                                                                                                          > swords. Is there a chance he got into a fight with the pleco's or
                                                                                                                                          > something??? Everyone else in the tank is perfectly fine, there's
                                                                                                                                          > no white spots or anything unusual on any of the fish or even on
                                                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                                                          > Betta. Though his fins look shredded they are not "thin" if you
                                                                                                                                          > know what I mean? All of the water tests are coming up fine for
                                                                                                                                          > ammonia ("0") nitrates, nitrites. hardness (7.2) and chlorine. I
                                                                                                                                          > don't have another tank that I can put him in right now. I haven't
                                                                                                                                          > seen any other fish picking on him but who knows what goes on when
                                                                                                                                          > the lights go out?! When I do put in food he is pretty active at
                                                                                                                                          > going after the food but he waits until it hits the gravel before
                                                                                                                                          > going for it - i.e. doesn't swim after it. I would hate to lose
                                                                                                                                          > this guy!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Any help is appreciated!!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Peggy
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1855 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                          As an aside, my Betta behaviour is REALLY interesting to watch. It’s almost cat/ferret like in approach. He’ll go down, lie on the bottom, watch something for 30 seconds and then take a snap at it. (food pellet).. He LOVES running through plants and grass in the tank, to the point that I was looking last night for parasites just in case... He’s not scratching though, just kinda seems to be playing like a kitten in an obstacle course.

                                                                                                                                          The interesting thing is that he’ll fan out and lean up again a rock... sort of swim, stop at edge of rock, fan out, spread the tails completely over the rock like a plastic bag or something... kinda looks like a spy hunched up looking around a corner.. it’s pretty amusing...

                                                                                                                                          Don’t know if this is all normal or not, I’ve never had a Betta before but it’s still fun to watch.

                                                                                                                                          Tim


                                                                                                                                          On 22/4/04 7:51 AM, "Chris" <cjreporter98@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                          It could be that he has been picked on by the other fish in the tank.
                                                                                                                                          I have found that if you put a betta in with other fish, the other
                                                                                                                                          fish tend to bite at the bettas tail. It is best to keep the male
                                                                                                                                          betta seprate from other fish, including female bettas!


                                                                                                                                          --- In
                                                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "summertyme1113"
                                                                                                                                          <peggy1155@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > All of a sudden yesterday I noticed my male Betta is not doing
                                                                                                                                          well.
                                                                                                                                          > He's been laying on the bottom of the tank.  When I put in food he
                                                                                                                                          > will eat but otherwise just lays there.  He's no better today and I
                                                                                                                                          > put my hand in and tickled his belly (I know that sounds weird) and
                                                                                                                                          > he did swim around a little bit.  His fins look very ragged and
                                                                                                                                          much
                                                                                                                                          > shorter.  He was fine, swimming around and being his usual
                                                                                                                                          > gregarious self on Saturday and his fins looked fine.  This is a 29
                                                                                                                                          > gallon tank with 6 danio's 4 corydoras and 2 small pleco's.
                                                                                                                                          > Moderately planted with live plants - wisteria, corkscrew & amazon
                                                                                                                                          > swords. Is there a chance he got into a fight with the pleco's or
                                                                                                                                          > something???  Everyone else in the tank is perfectly fine, there's
                                                                                                                                          > no white spots or anything unusual on any of the fish or even on
                                                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                                                          > Betta.  Though his fins look shredded they are not "thin" if you
                                                                                                                                          > know what I mean?  All of the water tests are coming up fine for
                                                                                                                                          > ammonia ("0") nitrates, nitrites. hardness (7.2) and chlorine.  I
                                                                                                                                          > don't have another tank that I can put him in right now.  I haven't
                                                                                                                                          > seen any other fish picking on him but who knows what goes on when
                                                                                                                                          > the lights go out?!  When I do put in food he is pretty active at
                                                                                                                                          > going after the food but he waits until it hits the gravel before
                                                                                                                                          > going for it - i.e. doesn't swim after it.  I would hate to lose
                                                                                                                                          > this guy!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Any help is appreciated!!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Peggy
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1856 From: Nancy A. Hanne Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: charcole filter?
                                                                                                                                          I'm wondering why a charcole filter has to be removed when adding
                                                                                                                                          medications/chemicals to the water? The package directions also
                                                                                                                                          never say for how long to keep it removed.
                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1857 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: charcole filter?
                                                                                                                                          because charcoal functions by filtering out chemicals and particulates
                                                                                                                                          in the water, including your medications. you should keep it out of the
                                                                                                                                          tank for 3 days after the last medication treatment and then it's safe
                                                                                                                                          to replace it.
                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                          On Apr 21, 2004, at 6:47 PM, Nancy A. Hanne wrote:

                                                                                                                                          > I'm wondering why a charcole filter has to be removed when adding
                                                                                                                                          > medications/chemicals to the water?  The package directions also
                                                                                                                                          > never say for how long to keep it removed. 
                                                                                                                                          > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >


                                                                                                                                          http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                          don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1858 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: charcole filter?
                                                                                                                                          Activated carbon/charcoal removes impurities from the water. Medications would be removed from the water as long as the charcoal/carbon is filtering water. The carbon/charcoal should be removed from the filtration as long as the medications are prescribed to be in the water
                                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                          > I'm wondering why a charcole filter has to be removed when adding
                                                                                                                                          > medications/chemicals to the water? The package directions also
                                                                                                                                          > never say for how long to keep it removed.
                                                                                                                                          > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1859 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: charcole filter?
                                                                                                                                          What medication are you talking about using? The charcoal will reduce the
                                                                                                                                          effectiveness of a lot of medications. How long you keep the charcoal out
                                                                                                                                          really depends on how sick your fish are. When I called the 800 number on
                                                                                                                                          the back of the fungus medication and asked the people there, they said that
                                                                                                                                          you could keep the charcoal out of the filter until the fish are better.
                                                                                                                                          They also said that you could add a second dose after 4 days, after doing a
                                                                                                                                          25% water change. So I'd assume that means your fish should be fine with no
                                                                                                                                          charcoal in the filter for 8 days.

                                                                                                                                          Erin VanKouwenberg
                                                                                                                                          Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zig zag?


                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                          From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/21/04 18:48:36
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] charcole filter?

                                                                                                                                          I'm wondering why a charcole filter has to be removed when adding
                                                                                                                                          medications/chemicals to the water? The package directions also
                                                                                                                                          never say for how long to keep it removed.
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1860 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: does real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                          about a week ago I asked about real plants helping with lowering
                                                                                                                                          Ammonia well...... I think I may have answer that with a yes. As some
                                                                                                                                          of you know I added my first plant on saturday. This hex 5 had
                                                                                                                                          always had a problem with ammonia today I tested and it was only a
                                                                                                                                          trace less then 0.25(MG/) I can't be sure, I don't know why? but I
                                                                                                                                          can say it strange that only 4 days after putting the new live plant
                                                                                                                                          in my tank. The ammonia is so low. I did no water change or cleaning
                                                                                                                                          or added anything. And on firday when I tested it was 2.0 (mg/) So
                                                                                                                                          I'm happy and the little plant is doing well. And all is good :)
                                                                                                                                          Sherrie
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1861 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                          It starts, first one plant... then just one more, and before you know it you have a plant tank that you just keep fish in to provide nutrients ;-)

                                                                                                                                          Tim


                                                                                                                                          On 22/4/04 10:33 AM, "freedombell2002" <KPribble@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                          about a week ago I asked about real plants helping with lowering
                                                                                                                                          Ammonia well...... I think I may have answer that with a yes. As some
                                                                                                                                          of you  know I added my first plant on saturday. This hex 5 had
                                                                                                                                          always had a problem with ammonia today I tested and it was only a
                                                                                                                                          trace less then 0.25(MG/) I can't be sure, I don't know why? but I
                                                                                                                                          can say it strange that only 4 days after putting the new live plant
                                                                                                                                          in my tank. The ammonia is so low. I did no water change or cleaning
                                                                                                                                          or added anything. And on firday when I tested it was 2.0 (mg/) So
                                                                                                                                          I'm happy and the little plant is doing well. And all is good :)
                                                                                                                                          Sherrie


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                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1862 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond. They seem happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Regards,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Ben
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1863 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: molly...........
                                                                                                                                          i recently purchased a few molly fish. one had babies but all the babies got eating. i saw her yesterday, but did not see her today.. it clicked in my head, so i found her dead body, but it all had mold growing on it? why? so quick???? could it be something in my air or the tank?? thanks
                                                                                                                                          Jenifer
                                                                                                                                          Ps the water has been really cloudy the last week, despite 9p per cent water changes and filter changes
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1864 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/21/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: molly...........
                                                                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] molly...........
                                                                                                                                          Is it possible that your molly had a preexisting fungal or bacterial infection that you didn’t notice before because of the cloudy water?
                                                                                                                                          What colour is the cloud?
                                                                                                                                          What kind of light does the tank receive?
                                                                                                                                          Are there any other fish in the tank?

                                                                                                                                          If you were trying to clear out cloudy water that quickly then you could have done a 50% -> 75% quite happily.
                                                                                                                                          I don’t suppose you have an ammonia, nitrite or nitrate test kit? What are the results?

                                                                                                                                          Tim

                                                                                                                                          On 22/4/04 3:16 PM, "jeniferthatsme@..." <jeniferthatsme@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                          i recently purchased a few molly fish. one had babies but all the babies got eating. i saw her yesterday, but did not see her today.. it clicked in my head, so i found her dead body, but it all had mold growing on it? why? so quick???? could it be something in my air or the tank?? thanks
                                                                                                                                          Jenifer
                                                                                                                                          Ps the water has been really cloudy the last week, despite 9p per cent water changes and filter changes


                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1865 From: Matt Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: should I or shouldn't I?
                                                                                                                                          Okay guys,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I'm hearing all the talk of real plants and I was wondering, given that I want more plants in my tank and more variety than the pathetic plastic ones offer, should we go for the real thing?????
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Pro's and con's please people.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Matt.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                          Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1866 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: should I or shouldn't I?

                                                                                                                                          Pros:

                                                                                                                                          Can combat Algae

                                                                                                                                          Helps maintain water quality

                                                                                                                                          Can help keep nitrate levels down if not zero

                                                                                                                                          Creates a more stable environment

                                                                                                                                          Provides a dynamic look. Every plant has something new every week

                                                                                                                                          Gives a better sense of security to fish

                                                                                                                                          Can provide food to a lot many fish almost 24/7.. obviously not at the expense of destroying them. Things like silver dollars etc are havoc to plants

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Cons:

                                                                                                                                          Dead and torn leaves can create more waste then a fish only tank. So needs more maintenance in terms of pruning and removing dead leaves.

                                                                                                                                          Cant think of anything else..

                                                                                                                                          In high light and CO2 injection planted tanks, you will be limited to the fish stocking level as the water’s gaseous contents cannot support a full stock.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Matt [mailto:mrwb@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 22 April 2004 10:09
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshWaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] should I or shouldn't I?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Okay guys,

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          I'm hearing all the talk of real plants and I was wondering, given that I want more plants in my tank and more variety than the pathetic plastic ones offer, should we go for the real thing?????

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Pro's and con's please people.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Matt.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                          Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1867 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: molly...........
                                                                                                                                          Jenifer, it probably wasn't mold at all. Was it white? It was more likely to
                                                                                                                                          be fungus, mollies are really bad about getting fungus infections.

                                                                                                                                          Was your mollie black?? They're weaker than the other ones ... my first fish
                                                                                                                                          for my tank were all black mollies, and they ALL (3 of them) died from
                                                                                                                                          fungal infections within the first month. (Then again, my tank didn't start
                                                                                                                                          with ammonia spike and nitrate spike until then, either ... so that didn't
                                                                                                                                          help matters any.

                                                                                                                                          9 percent water change is probably not enough to get all the crud out either
                                                                                                                                          but others may disagree with me. What I usually do is change out about 25
                                                                                                                                          percent of my water every week. How often are you changing your filter?
                                                                                                                                          Filter shouldn't need to be changed every week ... unless the particular
                                                                                                                                          filter you used says so on the package, but I've never seen one recommend
                                                                                                                                          changing that often.

                                                                                                                                          Sorry to hear your fish died ... and that all her babies got eaten.

                                                                                                                                          Erin VanKouwenberg
                                                                                                                                          Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zig zag?


                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                          From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/22/04 01:17:03
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] molly...........

                                                                                                                                          i recently purchased a few molly fish. one had babies but all the babies got
                                                                                                                                          eating. i saw her yesterday, but did not see her today.. it clicked in my
                                                                                                                                          head, so i found her dead body, but it all had mold growing on it? why? so
                                                                                                                                          quick???? could it be something in my air or the tank?? thanks
                                                                                                                                          Jenifer
                                                                                                                                          Ps the water has been really cloudy the last week, despite 9p per cent water changes and filter changes
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1868 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                          i keep my male betta in with a dojo loach, skunk loaches, fancy guppies,
                                                                                                                                          african butterflies, a dozen or so newts, 4 firebelly toads and four
                                                                                                                                          tree frogs in a semi-aquatic tank. I used to keep him in my 46
                                                                                                                                          community until I started converting it into a Lake Tanganyika
                                                                                                                                          cichlid/community tank. The Lake Tangs are a little rowdy for him.

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1869 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: charcole filter?
                                                                                                                                          There are a lot of people out there that feel that carbon is not needed.
                                                                                                                                          If you are on top of your water changes using dechlorinated water, your
                                                                                                                                          water won't discolor from decayed food and waste. When I was sick and
                                                                                                                                          couldn't work for 13 months, I didn't use any carbon and had no
                                                                                                                                          problems. I use a little now as a preventive measure but I don't feel
                                                                                                                                          bad if I skip it.

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1870 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: should I or shouldn't I?
                                                                                                                                          i've got a ton of real plants, with a plain gravel substrate and the
                                                                                                                                          only "con" i can see is that when you have to vacuum the gravel, or
                                                                                                                                          chase a fish around with the net, it can get a bit tricky, but other
                                                                                                                                          than that it's a great thing to have...
                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                          On Apr 22, 2004, at 5:09 AM, Matt wrote:

                                                                                                                                          > Okay guys,
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > I'm hearing all the talk of real plants and I was wondering, given
                                                                                                                                          > that I want more plants in my tank and more variety than the pathetic
                                                                                                                                          > plastic ones offer, should we go for the real thing?????
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > Pro's and con's please people.
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > Matt.
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is
                                                                                                                                          > ourself."
                                                                                                                                          > Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >


                                                                                                                                          http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                          don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1871 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: charcole filter?
                                                                                                                                          you need to remove the charcoal because it absorbs the meds/chemicals, once you are done medicating you can put it back
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Andreas
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1872 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: BEN
                                                                                                                                           Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                            We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small ones (2-3") in a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the coloring of them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY BREED LIKE CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                          Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond. They seem happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Regards,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Ben
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1873 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                          Shubunkins??? are they in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                          pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                          vegas and hope it will be great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                          high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit.
                                                                                                                                          But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie

                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                          <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small ones
                                                                                                                                          (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                          > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                          coloring of
                                                                                                                                          > them..... They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                          BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                          > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                          > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does real plants
                                                                                                                                          helpammonia
                                                                                                                                          > woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Hello,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond. They
                                                                                                                                          seem
                                                                                                                                          > happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Regards,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Ben
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1874 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: should I or shouldn't I?
                                                                                                                                          It helped my ammonia troubles so far ( that was a pro!) will keep ya
                                                                                                                                          posted on that one :)

                                                                                                                                          Sherrie

                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                          > > Pro's and con's please people.
                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                          > > Matt.
                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                          > > "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is
                                                                                                                                          > > ourself."
                                                                                                                                          > > Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                          > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                          > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                          Terms of
                                                                                                                                          > > Service.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                          > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1875 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                           Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           Shubunkins are actually a fancy goldfish... but they come in some really unique color patterns and tend to have longer, more free flowing fins and tails...... I am in Upstate NY, so we only get to really enjoy the pond from Mid May, Until September.... But it is still worth it.   The pond we have now is just 12'X15', but next summer we are putting a 20'X25" in behind the gazebo and connecting the 2 with a  stream! If you want to see pictures of the pond and some of the fish.... Use this link..
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Hugs,   Kelly
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/22/04 17:53:53
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Shubunkins??? are they  in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                          pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                          vegas and hope it will be great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                          high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit. 
                                                                                                                                          But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie

                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                          <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          >  Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >   We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small ones
                                                                                                                                          (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                          > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                          coloring of
                                                                                                                                          > them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                          BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                          > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                          > Hugs, Kelly

                                                                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does real plants
                                                                                                                                          helpammonia
                                                                                                                                          > woes? answer YES

                                                                                                                                          > Hello,

                                                                                                                                          > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond. They
                                                                                                                                          seem
                                                                                                                                          > happy swimming around. ^_^

                                                                                                                                          > Regards,

                                                                                                                                          > Ben
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1876 From: Peggy Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help! :(
                                                                                                                                          The sad news is my poor Betta was dead the next morning. I don't know what
                                                                                                                                          happened. He'd been in with the same fish for over 5 months, the only
                                                                                                                                          additions were 3 young corydoras and the young pleco. I've always kept a
                                                                                                                                          male Betta in with tropical fish (except when I had the brackish tank) and
                                                                                                                                          never had any problems. This is the first time I've ever lost one this way.
                                                                                                                                          He was very outgoing and lots of fun to watch - a real clown, I will miss
                                                                                                                                          him. :(

                                                                                                                                          Peggy



                                                                                                                                          Message: 1
                                                                                                                                          Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:51:17 -0000
                                                                                                                                          From: "Chris" <cjreporter98@...>
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!

                                                                                                                                          It could be that he has been picked on by the other fish in the tank.
                                                                                                                                          I have found that if you put a betta in with other fish, the other
                                                                                                                                          fish tend to bite at the bettas tail. It is best to keep the male
                                                                                                                                          betta seprate from other fish, including female bettas!


                                                                                                                                          --- In
                                                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "summertyme1113"
                                                                                                                                          <peggy1155@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > All of a sudden yesterday I noticed my male Betta is not doing
                                                                                                                                          well.
                                                                                                                                          > He's been laying on the bottom of the tank. When I put in food he
                                                                                                                                          > will eat but otherwise just lays there. He's no better today and I
                                                                                                                                          > put my hand in and tickled his belly (I know that sounds weird) and
                                                                                                                                          > he did swim around a little bit. His fins look very ragged and
                                                                                                                                          much
                                                                                                                                          > shorter. He was fine, swimming around and being his usual
                                                                                                                                          > gregarious self on Saturday and his fins looked fine. This is a 29
                                                                                                                                          > gallon tank with 6 danio's 4 corydoras and 2 small pleco's.
                                                                                                                                          > Moderately planted with live plants - wisteria, corkscrew & amazon
                                                                                                                                          > swords. Is there a chance he got into a fight with the pleco's or
                                                                                                                                          > something??? Everyone else in the tank is perfectly fine, there's
                                                                                                                                          > no white spots or anything unusual on any of the fish or even on
                                                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                                                          > Betta. Though his fins look shredded they are not "thin" if you
                                                                                                                                          > know what I mean? All of the water tests are coming up fine for
                                                                                                                                          > ammonia ("0") nitrates, nitrites. hardness (7.2) and chlorine. I
                                                                                                                                          > don't have another tank that I can put him in right now. I haven't
                                                                                                                                          > seen any other fish picking on him but who knows what goes on when
                                                                                                                                          > the lights go out?! When I do put in food he is pretty active at
                                                                                                                                          > going after the food but he waits until it hits the gravel before
                                                                                                                                          > going for it - i.e. doesn't swim after it. I would hate to lose
                                                                                                                                          > this guy!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Any help is appreciated!!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Peggy







                                                                                                                                          ---
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                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1877 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem
                                                                                                                                          I'm so sorry for your loss. I've always gotten terribly attached to my
                                                                                                                                          bettas and have a bad time when they die :(


                                                                                                                                          Theresa



                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Peggy" <peggy1155@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 6:58 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Betta problem, need help! :(


                                                                                                                                          > The sad news is my poor Betta was dead the next morning. I don't know
                                                                                                                                          what
                                                                                                                                          > happened. He'd been in with the same fish for over 5 months, the only
                                                                                                                                          > additions were 3 young corydoras and the young pleco. I've always kept a
                                                                                                                                          > male Betta in with tropical fish (except when I had the brackish tank) and
                                                                                                                                          > never had any problems. This is the first time I've ever lost one this
                                                                                                                                          way.
                                                                                                                                          > He was very outgoing and lots of fun to watch - a real clown, I will miss
                                                                                                                                          > him. :(
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Peggy
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1878 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                          Hello Kelly

                                                                                                                                          How pretty is that ! Your fish are so colorful. THANK YOU for
                                                                                                                                          sharing makes me even more excited. A couple of questions.... You say
                                                                                                                                          your pond is 12'x 15' how deep? and about how many gallons is that?
                                                                                                                                          also how many fish do you have? And what do you with the fish the
                                                                                                                                          rest of the time? and the turtle lives in that pond also? and what do
                                                                                                                                          you do with it? okay sorry that was more then a couple Q's "LOL" I
                                                                                                                                          have more but I will wait and get a hold of you later ( if thats
                                                                                                                                          okay? ) with more about the pond it self, ie like filters and air (
                                                                                                                                          if you need that ) and plants LOL oh jezz could go on forever but I
                                                                                                                                          will wait.

                                                                                                                                          Sherrie



                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                          <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Shubunkins are actually a fancy goldfish... but they come in some
                                                                                                                                          really
                                                                                                                                          > unique color patterns and tend to have longer, more free flowing
                                                                                                                                          fins and
                                                                                                                                          > tails...... I am in Upstate NY, so we only get to really enjoy the
                                                                                                                                          pond from
                                                                                                                                          > Mid May, Until September.... But it is still worth it. The pond
                                                                                                                                          we have
                                                                                                                                          > now is just 12'X15', but next summer we are putting a 20'X25" in
                                                                                                                                          behind the
                                                                                                                                          > gazebo and connecting the 2 with a stream! If you want to see
                                                                                                                                          pictures of
                                                                                                                                          > the pond and some of the fish.... Use this link..
                                                                                                                                          > http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Hugs, Kelly

                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Date: 04/22/04 17:53:53
                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Shubunkins??? are they in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                          > pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                          > vegas and hope it will be great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                          > high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit.
                                                                                                                                          > But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                          > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > > Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small
                                                                                                                                          ones
                                                                                                                                          > (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                          > > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                          > coloring of
                                                                                                                                          > > them..... They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                          > BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                          > > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                          > > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond.
                                                                                                                                          They
                                                                                                                                          > seem
                                                                                                                                          > > happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Ben
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1879 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                          Thanks kelly!
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Do shubunkins eat small oblong-shaped snails? I'm just wondering why the snails in our pond suddenly disappeared after I introduced the shubunkins, and they are the only big fish in the pond.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          >>> THEY BREED LIKE CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING......
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Geez... no wonder they are so playful with each other. =) LOL
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 4:14 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] BEN

                                                                                                                                           Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                            We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small ones (2-3") in a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the coloring of them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY BREED LIKE CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                          Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond. They seem happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Regards,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Ben
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1880 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: pictures
                                                                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I finally got a nice digital camera for Easter...I've been playing around with it and put together an album of my fish pics. If you'd like to take a look http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/1632
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1881 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                          i'm expanding our pond this summer too. it's only about 4x4 now, but
                                                                                                                                          i'm making it about 8x10 with a possible river attachment to a second
                                                                                                                                          basin. i'm excited, we have mostly comets, 2 shubunkins and a large koi
                                                                                                                                          (we're going to add more with the larger pond) and it's so much fun to
                                                                                                                                          watch them all summer! i just got a deal on a 20x25 liner for 66
                                                                                                                                          shipped and insured! i'm so excited!
                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                          On Apr 22, 2004, at 8:34 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:

                                                                                                                                          > Hello Kelly
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > How pretty is that ! Your fish are so colorful. THANK YOU  for
                                                                                                                                          > sharing makes me even more excited. A couple of questions.... You say
                                                                                                                                          > your pond is 12'x 15' how deep? and about how many gallons is that?
                                                                                                                                          > also how many fish do you have? And what do you with the fish the
                                                                                                                                          > rest of the time? and the turtle lives in that pond also? and what do
                                                                                                                                          > you do with it? okay sorry that was more then a couple Q's "LOL" I
                                                                                                                                          > have more but I will wait and get a hold of you later ( if thats
                                                                                                                                          > okay? ) with more about the pond it self, ie like filters and air (
                                                                                                                                          > if you need that ) and plants LOL oh jezz could go on forever but I
                                                                                                                                          > will wait.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                          > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > >  Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >  Shubunkins are actually a fancy goldfish... but they come in some
                                                                                                                                          > really
                                                                                                                                          > > unique color patterns and tend to have longer, more free flowing
                                                                                                                                          > fins and
                                                                                                                                          > > tails...... I am in Upstate NY, so we only get to really enjoy the
                                                                                                                                          > pond from
                                                                                                                                          > > Mid May, Until September.... But it is still worth it.   The pond
                                                                                                                                          > we have
                                                                                                                                          > > now is just 12'X15', but next summer we are putting a 20'X25" in
                                                                                                                                          > behind the
                                                                                                                                          > > gazebo and connecting the 2 with a  stream! If you want to see
                                                                                                                                          > pictures of
                                                                                                                                          > > the pond and some of the fish.... Use this link..
                                                                                                                                          > > http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Hugs,   Kelly
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > > Date: 04/22/04 17:53:53
                                                                                                                                          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                          > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > Shubunkins??? are they  in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                          > > pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                          > > vegas and hope it will be great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                          > > high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit. 
                                                                                                                                          > > But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                          > > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > > >  Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                          > > >   We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small
                                                                                                                                          > ones
                                                                                                                                          > > (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                          > > > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                          > > coloring of
                                                                                                                                          > > > them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                          > > BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                          > > > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                          > > > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                          > > > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                          > > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                          > > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > > > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                          > > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                          > > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond.
                                                                                                                                          > They
                                                                                                                                          > > seem
                                                                                                                                          > > > happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                          > > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                          > > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > > Ben
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1882 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help! :(
                                                                                                                                          sorry to hear about your betta loss. I lost my female
                                                                                                                                          angel from breeding pair....i miss her very much..:(


                                                                                                                                          --- Peggy <peggy1155@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > The sad news is my poor Betta was dead the next
                                                                                                                                          > morning. I don't know what
                                                                                                                                          > happened. He'd been in with the same fish for over
                                                                                                                                          > 5 months, the only
                                                                                                                                          > additions were 3 young corydoras and the young
                                                                                                                                          > pleco. I've always kept a
                                                                                                                                          > male Betta in with tropical fish (except when I had
                                                                                                                                          > the brackish tank) and
                                                                                                                                          > never had any problems. This is the first time I've
                                                                                                                                          > ever lost one this way.
                                                                                                                                          > He was very outgoing and lots of fun to watch - a
                                                                                                                                          > real clown, I will miss
                                                                                                                                          > him. :(
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Peggy
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Message: 1
                                                                                                                                          > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:51:17 -0000
                                                                                                                                          > From: "Chris" <cjreporter98@...>
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: Betta problem, need help!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > It could be that he has been picked on by the other
                                                                                                                                          > fish in the tank.
                                                                                                                                          > I have found that if you put a betta in with other
                                                                                                                                          > fish, the other
                                                                                                                                          > fish tend to bite at the bettas tail. It is best to
                                                                                                                                          > keep the male
                                                                                                                                          > betta seprate from other fish, including female
                                                                                                                                          > bettas!
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > --- In
                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                          > "summertyme1113"
                                                                                                                                          > <peggy1155@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > > All of a sudden yesterday I noticed my male Betta
                                                                                                                                          > is not doing
                                                                                                                                          > well.
                                                                                                                                          > > He's been laying on the bottom of the tank. When
                                                                                                                                          > I put in food he
                                                                                                                                          > > will eat but otherwise just lays there. He's no
                                                                                                                                          > better today and I
                                                                                                                                          > > put my hand in and tickled his belly (I know that
                                                                                                                                          > sounds weird) and
                                                                                                                                          > > he did swim around a little bit. His fins look
                                                                                                                                          > very ragged and
                                                                                                                                          > much
                                                                                                                                          > > shorter. He was fine, swimming around and being
                                                                                                                                          > his usual
                                                                                                                                          > > gregarious self on Saturday and his fins looked
                                                                                                                                          > fine. This is a 29
                                                                                                                                          > > gallon tank with 6 danio's 4 corydoras and 2 small
                                                                                                                                          > pleco's.
                                                                                                                                          > > Moderately planted with live plants - wisteria,
                                                                                                                                          > corkscrew & amazon
                                                                                                                                          > > swords. Is there a chance he got into a fight with
                                                                                                                                          > the pleco's or
                                                                                                                                          > > something??? Everyone else in the tank is
                                                                                                                                          > perfectly fine, there's
                                                                                                                                          > > no white spots or anything unusual on any of the
                                                                                                                                          > fish or even on
                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                          > > Betta. Though his fins look shredded they are not
                                                                                                                                          > "thin" if you
                                                                                                                                          > > know what I mean? All of the water tests are
                                                                                                                                          > coming up fine for
                                                                                                                                          > > ammonia ("0") nitrates, nitrites. hardness (7.2)
                                                                                                                                          > and chlorine. I
                                                                                                                                          > > don't have another tank that I can put him in
                                                                                                                                          > right now. I haven't
                                                                                                                                          > > seen any other fish picking on him but who knows
                                                                                                                                          > what goes on when
                                                                                                                                          > > the lights go out?! When I do put in food he is
                                                                                                                                          > pretty active at
                                                                                                                                          > > going after the food but he waits until it hits
                                                                                                                                          > the gravel before
                                                                                                                                          > > going for it - i.e. doesn't swim after it. I
                                                                                                                                          > would hate to lose
                                                                                                                                          > > this guy!
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Any help is appreciated!!
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Peggy
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > ---
                                                                                                                                          > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                                                                                                                                          > Checked by AVG anti-virus system
                                                                                                                                          > (http://www.grisoft.com).
                                                                                                                                          > Version: 6.0.662 / Virus Database: 425 - Release
                                                                                                                                          > Date: 4/20/2004
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >





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                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1883 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pictures
                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/22/2004 8:53:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dtmergl@... writes:

                                                                                                                                          > Hello,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I finally got a nice digital camera for Easter...I've been playing around with it and put together an album of my fish pics. If you'd like to take a look
                                                                                                                                          > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/1632
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Theresa

                                                                                                                                          Theresa,
                                                                                                                                          Great photos!

                                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1884 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pictures

                                                                                                                                          Great pictures J. Can you help me a bit. I am also looking to buy a descent digital camera now. The one I have is like 3 yr old now and out of technology. Which one is yours?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 23 April 2004 01:54
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com ; aquaria-freshwater
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          I finally got a nice digital camera for Easter...I've been playing around with it and put together an album of my fish pics. If you'd like to take a look http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/1632

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Theresa

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1885 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 4/22/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pictures
                                                                                                                                          Hello Nimish,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          You can check out http://www.dpreviews.com for camera reviews. I bought mine (powershot a70) last november, and I am quite contented with it.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Good luck!
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          -Ben
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:40 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                          Great pictures J. Can you help me a bit. I am also looking to buy a descent digital camera now. The one I have is like 3 yr old now and out of technology. Which one is yours?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 23 April 2004 01:54
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com ; aquaria-freshwater
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          I finally got a nice digital camera for Easter...I've been playing around with it and put together an album of my fish pics. If you'd like to take a look http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/1632

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Theresa

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1886 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pictures

                                                                                                                                          Ben,

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          This website goes to a Designer website. Could not find anything about cameras in there?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thanks,

                                                                                                                                          Nimish

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Benedick Mark N. Chan [mailto:bmchan@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 23 April 2004 07:46
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Hello Nimish,

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          You can check out http://www.dpreviews.com for camera reviews. I bought mine (powershot a70) last november, and I am quite contented with it.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Good luck!

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          -Ben

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:40 PM

                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Great pictures J. Can you help me a bit. I am also looking to buy a descent digital camera now. The one I have is like 3 yr old now and out of technology. Which one is yours?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 23 April 2004 01:54
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com; aquaria-freshwater
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          I finally got a nice digital camera for Easter...I've been playing around with it and put together an album of my fish pics. If you'd like to take a look http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/1632

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Theresa

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1887 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pictures

                                                                                                                                          Lol. Got the site.. http://www.dpreview.com/ without the “s”.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thanks

                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Benedick Mark N. Chan [mailto:bmchan@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 23 April 2004 07:46
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Hello Nimish,

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          You can check out http://www.dpreviews.com for camera reviews. I bought mine (powershot a70) last november, and I am quite contented with it.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Good luck!

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          -Ben

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:40 PM

                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Great pictures J. Can you help me a bit. I am also looking to buy a descent digital camera now. The one I have is like 3 yr old now and out of technology. Which one is yours?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 23 April 2004 01:54
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com; aquaria-freshwater
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          I finally got a nice digital camera for Easter...I've been playing around with it and put together an album of my fish pics. If you'd like to take a look http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/1632

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Theresa

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1888 From: tbittick Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pictures
                                                                                                                                          Nim...

                                                                                                                                          This part of what I do for a living. Finally a chance to help you!

                                                                                                                                          Contact me off list, let me know what you think your price range is and I'm
                                                                                                                                          sure I can help.

                                                                                                                                          Tony



                                                                                                                                          Nimish Mathur writes:

                                                                                                                                          > Great pictures :-). Can you help me a bit. I am also looking to buy a
                                                                                                                                          > descent digital camera now. The one I have is like 3 yr old now and out of
                                                                                                                                          > technology. Which one is yours?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                          > Nim
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                          > Sent: 23 April 2004 01:54
                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com; aquaria-freshwater
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Hello,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I finally got a nice digital camera for Easter...I've been playing around
                                                                                                                                          > with it and put together an album of my fish pics. If you'd like to take a
                                                                                                                                          > look <http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/1632>
                                                                                                                                          > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/1632
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Theresa
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > _____
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=U
                                                                                                                                          > nsubscribe>
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                                                                                                                          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> of Service.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1889 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                           Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                  Lets see here... The pond is about 18" deep near the falls and goes down to 3 1/2' at the deep end.    There are a couple of shallow shelves that we left in for the plants and they are about 2 ft deep.  The best that we can estimate how much water because of the way it goes from 18" to 3 1/2ft is between 1800 and 2000 gallons.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                               We have around 30 good sized fish that we know about.... Of course babies appear out of no where here and there... Usually comets.  Something to do with the comets each the Koi babies, which is why we never have found any baby Koi. 
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                              We actually have 3 turtles.... all painted that are in the pond.... Only one hung around for the winter, the others must have gotten out and went elsewhere for the winter.  We found all 3 of them in a stream near our house and brought them home.. They LOVE the pellets and come to the feeding spot just like the fish when the see us.  I doubt they will find their way back to us, but I am sure that we will find more.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                              So far we have left the fish in the pond all winter... but this past winter was a tough one here in Upstate NY and we lost ALOT of them as we had temps that were 20 below for almost 2 weeks straight, so this year we are building a holding tank in our basement ( just a 4'X4" square made of landscape timbers, with a heavy duty liner and and air pump.... We will bring most of them in this year...  Our local Pond Store Owner lost OVER 50 thousand dollars in fish ( mostly Koi) this winter in his pond.... Its the first time EVER that he has lost more than one or 2 fish.      Most of the fish will eat out of my hand by mid summer, but by having them in a "pond" in the basement all winter, they wont have to be retrained each year...
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I hope this helped you some!
                                                                                                                                          Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/22/04 20:35:30
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Hello Kelly

                                                                                                                                          How pretty is that ! Your fish are so colorful. THANK YOU  for
                                                                                                                                          sharing makes me even more excited. A couple of questions.... You say
                                                                                                                                          your pond is 12'x 15' how deep? and about how many gallons is that?
                                                                                                                                          also how many fish do you have? And what do you with the fish the
                                                                                                                                          rest of the time? and the turtle lives in that pond also? and what do
                                                                                                                                          you do with it? okay sorry that was more then a couple Q's "LOL" I
                                                                                                                                          have more but I will wait and get a hold of you later ( if thats
                                                                                                                                          okay? ) with more about the pond it self, ie like filters and air (
                                                                                                                                          if you need that ) and plants LOL oh jezz could go on forever but I
                                                                                                                                          will wait.

                                                                                                                                          Sherrie



                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                          <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          >  Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >  Shubunkins are actually a fancy goldfish... but they come in some
                                                                                                                                          really
                                                                                                                                          > unique color patterns and tend to have longer, more free flowing
                                                                                                                                          fins and
                                                                                                                                          > tails...... I am in Upstate NY, so we only get to really enjoy the
                                                                                                                                          pond from
                                                                                                                                          > Mid May, Until September.... But it is still worth it.   The pond
                                                                                                                                          we have
                                                                                                                                          > now is just 12'X15', but next summer we are putting a 20'X25" in
                                                                                                                                          behind the
                                                                                                                                          > gazebo and connecting the 2 with a  stream! If you want to see
                                                                                                                                          pictures of
                                                                                                                                          > the pond and some of the fish.... Use this link..
                                                                                                                                          > http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Hugs,   Kelly


                                                                                                                                          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Date: 04/22/04 17:53:53
                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN

                                                                                                                                          > Shubunkins??? are they  in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                          > pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                          > vegas and hope it will be great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                          > high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit. 
                                                                                                                                          > But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                          > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > >  Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >   We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small
                                                                                                                                          ones
                                                                                                                                          > (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                          > > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                          > coloring of
                                                                                                                                          > > them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                          > BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                          > > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                          > > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                          > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                          > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                          > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond.
                                                                                                                                          They
                                                                                                                                          > seem
                                                                                                                                          > > happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                          > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                          > > 
                                                                                                                                          > > Ben



                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1890 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pictures
                                                                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Is this the correct link? It took me to to a preview page of interior designers and architects.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:45 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                          Hello Nimish,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          You can check out http://www.dpreviews.com for camera reviews. I bought mine (powershot a70) last november, and I am quite contented with it.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Good luck!
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          -Ben
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1891 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                           I honestly dont know anything about snails in ponds as our winters are so cold they would never make it and we would never be able to find them.  I have this thing about putting anything in the pond that we know will die... I wouldnt think that they would be able to eat a snail as they are just goldfish
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          .. I do however get 2-3 algae eaters and put them in....... and then in September we take them out and the LFS pays us BIG BUCKS for them as they are usually about a foot long by summers end......
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          We also let our LFS Owner put a couple dozen Black Moors in the pond, and then he comes and gets them out at summers end and they are about 5" long.... He then sells them for 20 or 25$ and WOW do they ever sell well.... He also gives us all the food we need for the summer, so its a nice trade off.....
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/22/04 20:47:16
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] BEN
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Thanks kelly!
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Do shubunkins eat small oblong-shaped snails? I'm just wondering why the snails in our pond suddenly disappeared after I introduced the shubunkins, and they are the only big fish in the pond.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          >>> THEY BREED LIKE CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING......
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Geez... no wonder they are so playful with each other. =) LOL
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 4:14 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] BEN

                                                                                                                                           Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                            We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small ones (2-3") in a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the coloring of them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY BREED LIKE CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                          Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond. They seem happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Regards,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Ben
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1892 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pictures
                                                                                                                                          Hello Nim,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          My husband the software engineer, computer geek, etc did the research and purchased the camera. I can tell you the basics though:
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Fuji FinePix S3000 digital camera
                                                                                                                                          6x optical zoom, 3.2x digital zoom
                                                                                                                                          electronic viewfinder
                                                                                                                                          movie
                                                                                                                                          1.8" LCD monitor
                                                                                                                                          xD-Picture Card
                                                                                                                                          Fujinon Lens F2.8-F3, equivalent to 38 - 228mm on a 35mm camera
                                                                                                                                          autofocus normal: 2.6ft to infinity, macro: approx 0.3 to 2.6ft
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Don't know if that helps any...I just know it's a really nice camera :)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:40 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                          Great pictures J. Can you help me a bit. I am also looking to buy a descent digital camera now. The one I have is like 3 yr old now and out of technology. Which one is yours?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1893 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pictures

                                                                                                                                          Thanks for that Theresa, So I have 3 cameras to chose from now. Fuji S3000, Canon A70 and Canon EOS (beyond budget)..

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thanks for this, I will do some researches and saving before I go for them. There is something common between your husband and myself.. we both are software engineers and in a way geeks ;)

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 23 April 2004 14:41
                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Hello Nim,

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          My husband the software engineer, computer geek, etc did the research and purchased the camera. I can tell you the basics though:

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Fuji FinePix S3000 digital camera

                                                                                                                                          6x optical zoom, 3.2x digital zoom

                                                                                                                                          electronic viewfinder

                                                                                                                                          movie

                                                                                                                                          1.8" LCD monitor

                                                                                                                                          xD-Picture Card

                                                                                                                                          Fujinon Lens F2.8-F3, equivalent to 38 - 228mm on a 35mm camera

                                                                                                                                          autofocus normal: 2.6ft to infinity, macro: approx 0.3 to 2.6ft

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Don't know if that helps any...I just know it's a really nice camera :)

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Theresa

                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:40 AM

                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Great pictures J. Can you help me a bit. I am also looking to buy a descent digital camera now. The one I have is like 3 yr old now and out of technology. Which one is yours?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1894 From: Peggy Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 191
                                                                                                                                          .
                                                                                                                                          Thanks Theresa, I was so upset when I found he had died. I've always found
                                                                                                                                          Bettas to have so much personality and I love them. People may think I'm
                                                                                                                                          crazy but I had a little burial ceremony for him in the backyard. :(

                                                                                                                                          Peggy




                                                                                                                                          Message: 10
                                                                                                                                          Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:12:35 -0400
                                                                                                                                          From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Betta problem

                                                                                                                                          I'm so sorry for your loss. I've always gotten terribly attached to my
                                                                                                                                          bettas and have a bad time when they die :(


                                                                                                                                          Theresa



                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Peggy" <peggy1155@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 6:58 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Betta problem, need help! :(


                                                                                                                                          > The sad news is my poor Betta was dead the next morning. I don't know
                                                                                                                                          what
                                                                                                                                          > happened. He'd been in with the same fish for over 5 months, the only
                                                                                                                                          > additions were 3 young corydoras and the young pleco. I've always kept a
                                                                                                                                          > male Betta in with tropical fish (except when I had the brackish tank) and
                                                                                                                                          > never had any problems. This is the first time I've ever lost one this
                                                                                                                                          way.
                                                                                                                                          > He was very outgoing and lots of fun to watch - a real clown, I will miss
                                                                                                                                          > him. :(
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Peggy







                                                                                                                                          ---
                                                                                                                                          Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                                                                                                                                          Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1895 From: Gary Loheide Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Fish Ponds
                                                                                                                                          Hi Sherrie and All,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I, too, live in Las Vegas and just started a fish pond.  It is a 90 gallon plastic one that I bought from K-mart.  I am just learning, but I have several lily bulbs, 3 Koi, 2 shubunkins, and 2 black moors....all very small.  Please keep any advice coming as I am sure I can use all the help I can get.  I have learned so much from this group already so please accept my thanks and appreciation.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Gary
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1896 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 191
                                                                                                                                          i did that when my betta, beverly died, don't think you're crazy,
                                                                                                                                          peggy...
                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                          On Apr 23, 2004, at 2:55 PM, Peggy wrote:

                                                                                                                                          > .
                                                                                                                                          > Thanks Theresa, I was so upset when I found he had died.  I've always
                                                                                                                                          > found
                                                                                                                                          > Bettas to have so much personality and I love them.  People may think
                                                                                                                                          > I'm
                                                                                                                                          > crazy but I had a little burial ceremony for him in the backyard.  :(
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Peggy
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Message: 10
                                                                                                                                          >    Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:12:35 -0400
                                                                                                                                          >    From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: Betta problem
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I'm so sorry for your loss. I've always gotten terribly attached to my
                                                                                                                                          > bettas and have a bad time when they die :(
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Theresa
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          > From: "Peggy" <peggy1155@...>
                                                                                                                                          > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 6:58 PM
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Betta problem, need
                                                                                                                                          > help! :(
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > > The sad news is my poor Betta was dead the next morning.  I don't
                                                                                                                                          > know
                                                                                                                                          > what
                                                                                                                                          > > happened.  He'd been in with the same fish for over 5 months, the
                                                                                                                                          > only
                                                                                                                                          > > additions were 3 young corydoras and the young pleco.  I've always
                                                                                                                                          > kept a
                                                                                                                                          > > male Betta in with tropical fish (except when I had the brackish
                                                                                                                                          > tank) and
                                                                                                                                          > > never had any problems.  This is the first time I've ever lost one
                                                                                                                                          > this
                                                                                                                                          > way.
                                                                                                                                          > > He was very outgoing and lots of fun to watch - a real clown, I
                                                                                                                                          > will miss
                                                                                                                                          > > him.  :(
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Peggy
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >


                                                                                                                                          http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                          don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1897 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 191
                                                                                                                                          Hello again,

                                                                                                                                          I don't think it's crazy at all, I've done the same thing myself.



                                                                                                                                          Theresa


                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Peggy" <peggy1155@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:55 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 191


                                                                                                                                          > .
                                                                                                                                          > Thanks Theresa, I was so upset when I found he had died. I've always
                                                                                                                                          found
                                                                                                                                          > Bettas to have so much personality and I love them. People may think I'm
                                                                                                                                          > crazy but I had a little burial ceremony for him in the backyard. :(
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Peggy
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1898 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                          here's a formula for volume: L x W x average Depth, divided by 231=
                                                                                                                                          volume. Wow, never noticed this keyboard doesn't have a division sign,
                                                                                                                                          oh well....... Find out the average depth and you know how much it
                                                                                                                                          holds, that easy.

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1899 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 191
                                                                                                                                          I had a situation here several weeks ago, cats knocked the plug for the
                                                                                                                                          airpump loose. Lost many fish, especially the lake Tanganyikans due to
                                                                                                                                          pH plummet. Now that the weather has broken here in Buffalo, I'll
                                                                                                                                          remove them from the freezer for a proper burial, so don't feel too bad,
                                                                                                                                          we love our fish also.

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1900 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Peggy I 'm very sorry for your lost
                                                                                                                                          Peggy,

                                                                                                                                          No matter how small or how big...... We love them all

                                                                                                                                          my thoughts are with you, hugs Sherrie
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1901 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Fish Ponds
                                                                                                                                          Hello Gary, my fellow Vegan


                                                                                                                                          Yes haven't started my pond yet but will be soon!! Has anyone said
                                                                                                                                          anything about our heat and the pond? ie how will it do and such?


                                                                                                                                          Sherrie
                                                                                                                                          Kpribble@...

                                                                                                                                          p.s. was just at petco tonight saw my first Shubunkins in person "LOL
                                                                                                                                          very cool looking fishie, love all the colors.



                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Loheide"
                                                                                                                                          <loheide@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > Hi Sherrie and All,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I, too, live in Las Vegas and just started a fish pond. It is a 90
                                                                                                                                          gallon plastic one that I bought from K-mart. I am just learning,
                                                                                                                                          but I have several lily bulbs, 3 Koi, 2 shubunkins, and 2 black
                                                                                                                                          moors....all very small. Please keep any advice coming as I am sure
                                                                                                                                          I can use all the help I can get. I have learned so much from this
                                                                                                                                          group already so please accept my thanks and appreciation.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Gary
                                                                                                                                          > loheide@c...
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1902 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: What does this mean (plants)
                                                                                                                                          Hey gang, I'm sorry I've been away for a while.  BIG project at work, I'm head deep in aligators with.  Anyway, I came home this morning (after working 16 hours) and found this on my plants in my tanks.  I was curious what to do with it?  Any help is greatly appreciated.  The only way I can explain it is through the picture I took of it, the link is below.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Thank you all!

                                                                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1903 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                          Tim

                                                                                                                                          you were so right!! I bought another plant "LOL" tonight. And last
                                                                                                                                          week I got new lights for it. I keep this up and hubby just might
                                                                                                                                          make me get a job to pay for all this "LOL" Sherrie


                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Tim Walker
                                                                                                                                          <twalker@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > It starts, first one plant... then just one more, and before you
                                                                                                                                          know it you
                                                                                                                                          > have a plant tank that you just keep fish in to provide nutrients ;-
                                                                                                                                          )
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Tim
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1904 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 4/23/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                          Edward? What is the problem in that picture? The devil (As commented by Joe), the patters on the back glass? Or a new plant visible?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          The patters on the rear glass look like water or moisture has come between the background sticker and the glass.. very common.

                                                                                                                                          The new plant seems to be a runner of amazon sword. You can start pushing the runners into the gravel and they will turn into wonderfull plants.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 24 April 2004 06:02
                                                                                                                                          To: Freshwater TropicalFish; Freshwateraquariums; Uniquaria
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Hey gang, I'm sorry I've been away for a while.  BIG project at work, I'm head deep in aligators with.  Anyway, I came home this morning (after working 16 hours) and found this on my plants in my tanks.  I was curious what to do with it?  Any help is greatly appreciated.  The only way I can explain it is through the picture I took of it, the link is below.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thank you all!

                                                                                                                                          Edward

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1905 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
                                                                                                                                          I guess I should have replied here, but since I was at your site....
                                                                                                                                          You're a proud new daddy! Wait until the bud grows 3 inch roots, slice
                                                                                                                                          it off below the bud, plant it with a root nutrient tab and watch it
                                                                                                                                          grow!!!!

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1906 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: do real plants help ammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                          Maybe what we need here is a rehab link for all the plant junkies :-)
                                                                                                                                          To keep unwanted snails at bay, buy some potassium permanganate for a
                                                                                                                                          quick soak or at least give new plants a 10-15 minute strong brine bath.

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1907 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
                                                                                                                                          Yeah the runners Nim.  How/where do you cut them properly at? 
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Thank you!
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          p.s.  Sorry I should had been more specific.
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 1:21 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                          Edward? What is the problem in that picture? The devil (As commented by Joe), the patters on the back glass? Or a new plant visible?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          The patters on the rear glass look like water or moisture has come between the background sticker and the glass.. very common.

                                                                                                                                          The new plant seems to be a runner of amazon sword. You can start pushing the runners into the gravel and they will turn into wonderfull plants.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                          From: Edward Sola [mailto:esola@...]
                                                                                                                                          Sent: 24 April 2004 06:02
                                                                                                                                          To: Freshwater TropicalFish; Freshwateraquariums; Uniquaria
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Hey gang, I'm sorry I've been away for a while.  BIG project at work, I'm head deep in aligators with.  Anyway, I came home this morning (after working 16 hours) and found this on my plants in my tanks.  I was curious what to do with it?  Any help is greatly appreciated.  The only way I can explain it is through the picture I took of it, the link is below.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Thank you all!

                                                                                                                                          Edward

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1908 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
                                                                                                                                          Thank you very much!

                                                                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 6:11 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                          I guess I should have replied here, but since I was at your site....
                                                                                                                                          You're a proud new daddy!  Wait until the bud grows 3 inch roots, slice
                                                                                                                                          it off below the bud, plant it with a root nutrient tab and watch it
                                                                                                                                          grow!!!!

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1909 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 193
                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 4/24/04 9:22:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                          here's a formula for volume:  L x W x average Depth, divided by 231=
                                                                                                                                          volume.  Wow, never noticed this keyboard doesn't have a division sign,
                                                                                                                                          oh well.......  Find out the average depth and you know how much it
                                                                                                                                          holds, that easy.   



                                                                                                                                          One addition:  L X W X H (or average depth) IN INCHES divided by 231 = gallons.
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1910 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          I am very new to pet fish...
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I have a small tank 11 x 6 x 7 inch that already have about 5 small fish, I have a Air Pump too...
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I need to know the following:
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          1) Should I keep the air pump on all the time?
                                                                                                                                          2) How often I need the change the water?
                                                                                                                                          3) Is there any way to make home make feeds for the fish?
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1911 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
                                                                                                                                          Devil or gargoyle? Either way I like it! :)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 2:21 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                          Edward? What is the problem in that picture? The devil (As commented by Joe), the patters on the back glass? Or a new plant visible?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          The patters on the rear glass look like water or moisture has come between the background sticker and the glass.. very common.

                                                                                                                                          The new plant seems to be a runner of amazon sword. You can start pushing the runners into the gravel and they will turn into wonderfull plants.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1912 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          By those dimensions it seems you have a 2g tank? What sort of fish are in there? I think you may run into problems with that many fish and no filter. I keep single bettas in 2g tanks and do water changes once a week.  And a heater? Not too many that can be kept without one.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Can you give us some more info?
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: akaize@...
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 2:27 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Newbee

                                                                                                                                          I am very new to pet fish...
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I have a small tank 11 x 6 x 7 inch that already have about 5 small fish, I have a Air Pump too...
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          I need to know the following:
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          1) Should I keep the air pump on all the time?
                                                                                                                                          2) How often I need the change the water?
                                                                                                                                          3) Is there any way to make home make feeds for the fish?
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1913 From: captaininsane357 Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          Welcome to the group !

                                                                                                                                          I would keep the pump on all the time, and change about 50% of
                                                                                                                                          the water once a week with that setup.

                                                                                                                                          You should look at getting a small filter of some type to run off
                                                                                                                                          the pump.

                                                                                                                                          Info on what kind of fish they are would help.

                                                                                                                                          I hope they arent oscars or pacu's....


                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Dan &
                                                                                                                                          Theresa" <dtmergl@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > Hello,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > By those dimensions it seems you have a 2g tank? What sort of fish
                                                                                                                                          are in there? I think you may run into problems with that many fish
                                                                                                                                          and no filter. I keep single bettas in 2g tanks and do water changes
                                                                                                                                          once a week. And a heater? Not too many that can be kept without
                                                                                                                                          one.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Can you give us some more info?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Theresa
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          > From: akaize@z...
                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshWaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 2:27 PM
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Newbee
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I am very new to pet fish...
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I have a small tank 11 x 6 x 7 inch that already have about 5
                                                                                                                                          small fish, I have a Air Pump too...
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I need to know the following:
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > 1) Should I keep the air pump on all the time?
                                                                                                                                          > 2) How often I need the change the water?
                                                                                                                                          > 3) Is there any way to make home make feeds for the fish?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1914 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          Hi,

                                                                                                                                          Welcome.

                                                                                                                                          What kind of fish do you have?
                                                                                                                                          Also I would recommend a Mini-BioWheel type power filter and/or small
                                                                                                                                          sponge/foam filter that can be operated w/ your air pump and a very
                                                                                                                                          small Heater of 25 - 50 watts. Also an UnderGravel Filter (UGF) can
                                                                                                                                          be operated w/ the airpump, but at best it only encourages the
                                                                                                                                          biological filtration. A power filter can do the 3 types together:
                                                                                                                                          Mechanical, Biological & Chemical.

                                                                                                                                          "...> 1) Should I keep the air pump on all the time?..."

                                                                                                                                          Yes, especially such a small tank. Keep a fine mist of tiny bubbles
                                                                                                                                          going to create disruption of the surface tension to allow gas
                                                                                                                                          exchanges, primarily CO2 & O2.

                                                                                                                                          "...> 2) How often I need the change the water?..."

                                                                                                                                          If possible, Daily up to 25% by volume or about 2inches from the top
                                                                                                                                          of water line. The more often the better in small environments. At a
                                                                                                                                          minimum Weekly water changes of no more than 50% volume.

                                                                                                                                          "...> 3) Is there any way to make home make feeds for the fish?"

                                                                                                                                          There had been some discussion in recent weeks regarding different
                                                                                                                                          foods for fish that are readily available at home.
                                                                                                                                          Some of the more popular Vegtables & Fruits mentioned included:
                                                                                                                                          Tomatoes
                                                                                                                                          Zucchini
                                                                                                                                          Broccoli
                                                                                                                                          Kale
                                                                                                                                          Spinach
                                                                                                                                          Lettuces
                                                                                                                                          Potatoe
                                                                                                                                          Peas
                                                                                                                                          Cucumber
                                                                                                                                          Bannana
                                                                                                                                          Strawberry

                                                                                                                                          Also mentioned were Cooked Rice and Boiled Egg Yolk.

                                                                                                                                          Some Live Aquatic Plants that may be eaten included:
                                                                                                                                          echinodorus rose
                                                                                                                                          anubias nana
                                                                                                                                          Riccia
                                                                                                                                          Hornwort
                                                                                                                                          duckweed
                                                                                                                                          cabomba
                                                                                                                                          Limnophylla

                                                                                                                                          There are lots of Live Foods that you can Culture at home. Check out
                                                                                                                                          the info in the Links Section on the groups Home Page. Here is a link
                                                                                                                                          to a Mailing List on the Topic, http://fins.actwin.com/live-foods/


                                                                                                                                          Hope that Helps,
                                                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, <akaize@z...>
                                                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > I am very new to pet fish...
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I have a small tank 11 x 6 x 7 inch that already have about 5 small
                                                                                                                                          fish, I have a Air Pump too...
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I need to know the following:
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > 1) Should I keep the air pump on all the time?
                                                                                                                                          > 2) How often I need the change the water?
                                                                                                                                          > 3) Is there any way to make home make feeds for the fish?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1915 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: What does this mean (plants)
                                                                                                                                          It's my gargoyle friends!  They try to keep my tank free and clear of parasites and such.

                                                                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 3:22 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                          Devil or gargoyle? Either way I like it! :)
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 2:21 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                          Edward? What is the problem in that picture? The devil (As commented by Joe), the patters on the back glass? Or a new plant visible?

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          The patters on the rear glass look like water or moisture has come between the background sticker and the glass.. very common.

                                                                                                                                          The new plant seems to be a runner of amazon sword. You can start pushing the runners into the gravel and they will turn into wonderfull plants.

                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1916 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: gargoyles
                                                                                                                                          I knew they weren't devils! Really like them a lot....do you have more pic of the tank on your site?
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:59 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                          It's my gargoyle friends!  They try to keep my tank free and clear of parasites and such.

                                                                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1917 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: gargoyles
                                                                                                                                          Theresa,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                              Thank you!  All the pics that I have are on the main site listed below.  I just added a few more tiger barbs to my 80gal today, I'll try to snap a few pics tonight for everyone.  I also have 2 - 20gal tanks with some beautiful gourmi's!  I'll get those pics as well if I can tonight.  Thank you again.

                                                                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:00 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: gargoyles

                                                                                                                                          I knew they weren't devils! Really like them a lot....do you have more pic of the tank on your site?
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:59 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: What does this mean (plants)

                                                                                                                                          It's my gargoyle friends!  They try to keep my tank free and clear of parasites and such.

                                                                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1918 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 193
                                                                                                                                          Ah, thanks, my clerical error. I somtimes forget it's the World Wide
                                                                                                                                          Web, not the American Wide Web...

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1919 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          Small World by Penn Plax (I think?) makes a filter that hooks up to an
                                                                                                                                          air pump, some bio, chem and mech filtration is better than nothing.
                                                                                                                                          The filter alone runs about 5 bucks, since you already have the pump and
                                                                                                                                          tubing.

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1920 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          Don't mean to butt in Aaron, but I do appreciate corrections to my own
                                                                                                                                          incomplete posts. Just a reminder about home made food, make sure you
                                                                                                                                          siphon out any uneaten food after 10 minutes or so. It'll rot quickly,
                                                                                                                                          as will any food and that'll contribute to the ammonia load of the
                                                                                                                                          little tank, actually any size tank.

                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1921 From: Ahamed Kaize ses@zmsn.com Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          Thank you for your details info.

                                                                                                                                          I don't have a filter, but I am will buy it today. I may go for a box or
                                                                                                                                          power filter.

                                                                                                                                          I have in the tank :
                                                                                                                                          2 x Swordtails [1.5" long]
                                                                                                                                          2 x Zebra Danio
                                                                                                                                          1 x I don't know the name, but same size as Zebra Danio

                                                                                                                                          Today I found that the water in my tank has changed to smoky color, what it
                                                                                                                                          can be?


                                                                                                                                          Regards,


                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 3:40 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbee


                                                                                                                                          Hi,

                                                                                                                                          Welcome.

                                                                                                                                          What kind of fish do you have?
                                                                                                                                          Also I would recommend a Mini-BioWheel type power filter and/or small
                                                                                                                                          sponge/foam filter that can be operated w/ your air pump and a very
                                                                                                                                          small Heater of 25 - 50 watts. Also an UnderGravel Filter (UGF) can
                                                                                                                                          be operated w/ the airpump, but at best it only encourages the
                                                                                                                                          biological filtration. A power filter can do the 3 types together:
                                                                                                                                          Mechanical, Biological & Chemical.

                                                                                                                                          "...> 1) Should I keep the air pump on all the time?..."

                                                                                                                                          Yes, especially such a small tank. Keep a fine mist of tiny bubbles
                                                                                                                                          going to create disruption of the surface tension to allow gas
                                                                                                                                          exchanges, primarily CO2 & O2.

                                                                                                                                          "...> 2) How often I need the change the water?..."

                                                                                                                                          If possible, Daily up to 25% by volume or about 2inches from the top
                                                                                                                                          of water line. The more often the better in small environments. At a
                                                                                                                                          minimum Weekly water changes of no more than 50% volume.

                                                                                                                                          "...> 3) Is there any way to make home make feeds for the fish?"

                                                                                                                                          There had been some discussion in recent weeks regarding different
                                                                                                                                          foods for fish that are readily available at home.
                                                                                                                                          Some of the more popular Vegtables & Fruits mentioned included:
                                                                                                                                          Tomatoes
                                                                                                                                          Zucchini
                                                                                                                                          Broccoli
                                                                                                                                          Kale
                                                                                                                                          Spinach
                                                                                                                                          Lettuces
                                                                                                                                          Potatoe
                                                                                                                                          Peas
                                                                                                                                          Cucumber
                                                                                                                                          Bannana
                                                                                                                                          Strawberry

                                                                                                                                          Also mentioned were Cooked Rice and Boiled Egg Yolk.

                                                                                                                                          Some Live Aquatic Plants that may be eaten included:
                                                                                                                                          echinodorus rose
                                                                                                                                          anubias nana
                                                                                                                                          Riccia
                                                                                                                                          Hornwort
                                                                                                                                          duckweed
                                                                                                                                          cabomba
                                                                                                                                          Limnophylla

                                                                                                                                          There are lots of Live Foods that you can Culture at home. Check out
                                                                                                                                          the info in the Links Section on the groups Home Page. Here is a link
                                                                                                                                          to a Mailing List on the Topic, http://fins.actwin.com/live-foods/


                                                                                                                                          Hope that Helps,
                                                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, <akaize@z...>
                                                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > I am very new to pet fish...
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I have a small tank 11 x 6 x 7 inch that already have about 5 small
                                                                                                                                          fish, I have a Air Pump too...
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I need to know the following:
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > 1) Should I keep the air pump on all the time?
                                                                                                                                          > 2) How often I need the change the water?
                                                                                                                                          > 3) Is there any way to make home make feeds for the fish?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Thanks





                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1922 From: Ahamed Kaize ses@zmsn.com Date: 4/24/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Making a fish tank
                                                                                                                                          I have decided to go to the nearest glass shop to request him to make a tank
                                                                                                                                          for me. Any suggestion, or what should I consider while assembling such
                                                                                                                                          tanks?



                                                                                                                                          My initial idea is for the following size, any suggestions?

                                                                                                                                          Width = 30"

                                                                                                                                          Length = 12"

                                                                                                                                          Height = 18"

                                                                                                                                          VOLUME = 28 Gallons



                                                                                                                                          If you ask me the question, how many and what fish, I am not yet prepared
                                                                                                                                          for that details, but I will make sure to follow the rule 1" per Gallons.



                                                                                                                                          Thank you,
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1923 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/25/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          Is this tank going to be a temporary home for these fish? I see a couple
                                                                                                                                          problems with your stock:

                                                                                                                                          -Swordtails will grow to at least 4". Definitely not enough room for them.

                                                                                                                                          -Zebra danios are smaller but really like to good sized swimming area. They
                                                                                                                                          also do better and are happier in schools.

                                                                                                                                          -Even if you've had these fish for a while and size doesn't seem to be an
                                                                                                                                          issue, it really is. Living in such a small space will just stunt their
                                                                                                                                          growth.

                                                                                                                                          A 2g tank isn't a good home for many fish at all. A single betta would be
                                                                                                                                          fine, in which case a filter isn't really necessary. It could also be used
                                                                                                                                          as a fry tank if you have M/F swordtails and are able to save fry before
                                                                                                                                          they're eaten.

                                                                                                                                          I tend to overstock my tanks somewhat but I have good filtration, aeration,
                                                                                                                                          and do very frequent water changes. I just feel badly about overstocking to
                                                                                                                                          the point where there potentially isn't enough room for the fish to swim
                                                                                                                                          happily and their growth will be effected.


                                                                                                                                          Theresa


                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Ahamed Kaize ses@..." <akaize@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 2:15 AM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbee


                                                                                                                                          > Thank you for your details info.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I don't have a filter, but I am will buy it today. I may go for a box or
                                                                                                                                          > power filter.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I have in the tank :
                                                                                                                                          > 2 x Swordtails [1.5" long]
                                                                                                                                          > 2 x Zebra Danio
                                                                                                                                          > 1 x I don't know the name, but same size as Zebra Danio
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Today I found that the water in my tank has changed to smoky color, what
                                                                                                                                          it
                                                                                                                                          > can be?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Regards,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1924 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/25/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          Yes, lately I realized the this is going to be my temporary tank, I am
                                                                                                                                          planing to build a tank in 4 days.

                                                                                                                                          The other fish is guppies.

                                                                                                                                          Today I can see the my Swordtails are always very lazy and landed on the
                                                                                                                                          gravels. Is it normal?

                                                                                                                                          Tks


                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 6:44 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbee


                                                                                                                                          > Is this tank going to be a temporary home for these fish? I see a couple
                                                                                                                                          > problems with your stock:
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > -Swordtails will grow to at least 4". Definitely not enough room for them.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > -Zebra danios are smaller but really like to good sized swimming area.
                                                                                                                                          They
                                                                                                                                          > also do better and are happier in schools.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > -Even if you've had these fish for a while and size doesn't seem to be an
                                                                                                                                          > issue, it really is. Living in such a small space will just stunt their
                                                                                                                                          > growth.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > A 2g tank isn't a good home for many fish at all. A single betta would be
                                                                                                                                          > fine, in which case a filter isn't really necessary. It could also be used
                                                                                                                                          > as a fry tank if you have M/F swordtails and are able to save fry before
                                                                                                                                          > they're eaten.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I tend to overstock my tanks somewhat but I have good filtration,
                                                                                                                                          aeration,
                                                                                                                                          > and do very frequent water changes. I just feel badly about overstocking
                                                                                                                                          to
                                                                                                                                          > the point where there potentially isn't enough room for the fish to swim
                                                                                                                                          > happily and their growth will be effected.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Theresa
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          > From: "Ahamed Kaize ses@..." <akaize@...>
                                                                                                                                          > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 2:15 AM
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > > Thank you for your details info.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > I don't have a filter, but I am will buy it today. I may go for a box or
                                                                                                                                          > > power filter.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > I have in the tank :
                                                                                                                                          > > 2 x Swordtails [1.5" long]
                                                                                                                                          > > 2 x Zebra Danio
                                                                                                                                          > > 1 x I don't know the name, but same size as Zebra Danio
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Today I found that the water in my tank has changed to smoky color, what
                                                                                                                                          > it
                                                                                                                                          > > can be?
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1925 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/25/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          > Today I can see the my Swordtails are always very lazy and landed on the
                                                                                                                                          > gravels. Is it normal?


                                                                                                                                          I'd be concerned about water quality since the tank has no filtration.



                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1926 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/25/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          I changed the water completely today.


                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 7:31 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbee


                                                                                                                                          > > Today I can see the my Swordtails are always very lazy and landed on the
                                                                                                                                          > > gravels. Is it normal?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I'd be concerned about water quality since the tank has no filtration.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Theresa
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1927 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 4/25/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          It would be unkind to refer to your swordtails as 'lazy', since it carries a 'moral'/'sinful' connotation. If they're sick, it would be appropriate to refer to their inactivity with a kinder word.
                                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                          > Yes, lately I realized the this is going to be my temporary tank, I am
                                                                                                                                          > planing to build a tank in 4 days.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > The other fish is guppies.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Today I can see the my Swordtails are always very lazy and landed on the
                                                                                                                                          > gravels. Is it normal?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Tks
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          > From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@...>
                                                                                                                                          > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 6:44 PM
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > > Is this tank going to be a temporary home for these fish? I see a couple
                                                                                                                                          > > problems with your stock:
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > -Swordtails will grow to at least 4". Definitely not enough room for them.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > -Zebra danios are smaller but really like to good sized swimming area.
                                                                                                                                          > They
                                                                                                                                          > > also do better and are happier in schools.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > -Even if you've had these fish for a while and size doesn't seem to be an
                                                                                                                                          > > issue, it really is. Living in such a small space will just stunt their
                                                                                                                                          > > growth.
                                                                                                                                          > >

                                                                                                                                          > > A 2g tank isn't a good home for many fish at all. A single betta would be
                                                                                                                                          > > fine, in which case a filter isn't really necessary. It could also be used
                                                                                                                                          > > as a fry tank if you have M/F swordtails and are able to save fry before
                                                                                                                                          > > they're eaten.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > I tend to overstock my tanks somewhat but I have good filtration,
                                                                                                                                          > aeration,
                                                                                                                                          > > and do very frequent water changes. I just feel badly about overstocking
                                                                                                                                          > to
                                                                                                                                          > > the point where there potentially isn't enough room for the fish to swim
                                                                                                                                          > > happily and their growth will be effected.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Theresa
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          > > From: "Ahamed Kaize ses@..." <akaize@...>
                                                                                                                                          > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 2:15 AM
                                                                                                                                          > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > > Thank you for your details info.
                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                          > > > I don't have a filter, but I am will buy it today. I may go for a box or
                                                                                                                                          > > > power filter.
                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                          > > > I have in the tank :
                                                                                                                                          > > > 2 x Swordtails [1.5" long]

                                                                                                                                          > > > 2 x Zebra Danio
                                                                                                                                          > > > 1 x I don't know the name, but same size as Zebra Danio
                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                          > > > Today I found that the water in my tank has changed to smoky color, what
                                                                                                                                          > > it
                                                                                                                                          > > > can be?
                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                          > > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1928 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/25/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: gargoyles
                                                                                                                                          it says albums empty ??

                                                                                                                                          ..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                          --- Edward Sola <esola@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > Theresa,
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Thank you! All the pics that I have are on the
                                                                                                                                          > main site listed below. I just added a few more
                                                                                                                                          > tiger barbs to my 80gal today, I'll try to snap a
                                                                                                                                          > few pics tonight for everyone. I also have 2 -
                                                                                                                                          > 20gal tanks with some beautiful gourmi's! I'll get
                                                                                                                                          > those pics as well if I can tonight. Thank you
                                                                                                                                          > again.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Edward
                                                                                                                                          > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          > From: Dan & Theresa
                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:00 PM
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
                                                                                                                                          > gargoyles
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > I knew they weren't devils! Really like them a
                                                                                                                                          > lot....do you have more pic of the tank on your
                                                                                                                                          > site?
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Theresa
                                                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          > From: Edward Sola
                                                                                                                                          > To:
                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:59 PM
                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                          > Re: What does this mean (plants)
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > It's my gargoyle friends! They try to keep my
                                                                                                                                          > tank free and clear of parasites and such.
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > Edward
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
                                                                                                                                          > email to:
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
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                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1929 From: Edward Sola Date: 4/25/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: gargoyles
                                                                                                                                          Hey Sunny, Sorry I'm reloading a new set of pics I took these past few
                                                                                                                                          days. However Fotki is being VERY slow getting my pics. I'm on a 350k
                                                                                                                                          broadband link and my files are only 2.5mb. It's taking about 3 minutes per
                                                                                                                                          pic to upload. So it might be till tomorrow till the new pics are loaded.
                                                                                                                                          Please check back in a few, or I'll let everyone know when they are all
                                                                                                                                          loaded in. Thank you for looking though! :)

                                                                                                                                          Edward
                                                                                                                                          http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          From: "sunil kamath" <sunnyvks@...>
                                                                                                                                          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 10:21 PM
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: gargoyles


                                                                                                                                          > it says albums empty ??
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > ..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                          > --- Edward Sola <esola@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                          > > Theresa,
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Thank you! All the pics that I have are on the
                                                                                                                                          > > main site listed below. I just added a few more
                                                                                                                                          > > tiger barbs to my 80gal today, I'll try to snap a
                                                                                                                                          > > few pics tonight for everyone. I also have 2 -
                                                                                                                                          > > 20gal tanks with some beautiful gourmi's! I'll get
                                                                                                                                          > > those pics as well if I can tonight. Thank you
                                                                                                                                          > > again.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Edward
                                                                                                                                          > > http://public.fotki.com/jayhkr/
                                                                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          > > From: Dan & Theresa
                                                                                                                                          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:00 PM
                                                                                                                                          > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
                                                                                                                                          > > gargoyles
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > I knew they weren't devils! Really like them a
                                                                                                                                          > > lot....do you have more pic of the tank on your
                                                                                                                                          > > site?
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Theresa
                                                                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                          > > From: Edward Sola
                                                                                                                                          > > To:
                                                                                                                                          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                          > > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 8:59 PM
                                                                                                                                          > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                          > > Re: What does this mean (plants)
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > It's my gargoyle friends! They try to keep my
                                                                                                                                          > > tank free and clear of parasites and such.
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > > Edward
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                          ----
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                                                                                                                                          > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                          > >
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                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                          > >
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                                                                                                                                          > > email to:
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                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1930 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 4/26/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: possible lfs interview
                                                                                                                                          Hello,
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Thought I'd run this by everyone here....there's a nice lfs hiring, flexible hours, pay comparable to what I'm making now, store discount. They want someone who is in the hobby, ok that's no problem. Said they'd ask some questions regarding fishkeeping during the interview...any idea what kind of questions? Generally how much knowledge does a lfs require for new employees?

                                                                                                                                          Thanks for any help, I'm at a dead end with my current job and this looks like a good opportunity.
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                          Theresa


                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 1931 From: DeSmilie Date: 4/26/2004
                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: do real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                            where would one purchase potassium permanganate?  how much salt to water ratio would be considered a "strong brine bath"?   and finally...can i use regular "sea salt" from the grocery or would i need to purchase a specific salt from a fish/pet supply?
                                                                                                                                            thanks in advance...so many questions so little time lol
                                                                                                                                            DeSmilie
                                                                                                                                            Peeing In The Snow
                                                                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Date: 04/24/04 15:55:32
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: do real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Maybe what we need here is a rehab link for all the plant junkies :-)
                                                                                                                                            To keep unwanted snails at bay, buy some potassium permanganate for a
                                                                                                                                            quick soak or at least give new plants a 10-15 minute strong brine bath.

                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"

                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                              IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1932 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/26/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: possible lfs interview
                                                                                                                                            Hi Theresa,

                                                                                                                                            I am not sure what they might ask, but feel like they
                                                                                                                                            might ask u to net a fish w/o stressing it much, and
                                                                                                                                            what fishes go with which fishes....

                                                                                                                                            Whats the normal Ph, about cycling a tank, co2,
                                                                                                                                            fertilizers, plants..etc !!

                                                                                                                                            I am sure somebody who is working or has worked might
                                                                                                                                            be able to help u more with this.

                                                                                                                                            Anyway wish u all the best.....and do let us know the
                                                                                                                                            outcome....SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                            --- Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > Hello,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thought I'd run this by everyone here....there's a
                                                                                                                                            > nice lfs hiring, flexible hours, pay comparable to
                                                                                                                                            > what I'm making now, store discount. They want
                                                                                                                                            > someone who is in the hobby, ok that's no problem.
                                                                                                                                            > Said they'd ask some questions regarding fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                            > during the interview...any idea what kind of
                                                                                                                                            > questions? Generally how much knowledge does a lfs
                                                                                                                                            > require for new employees?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks for any help, I'm at a dead end with my
                                                                                                                                            > current job and this looks like a good opportunity.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Theresa
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >





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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1933 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/26/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: possible lfs interview
                                                                                                                                            Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] possible lfs interview I’d (personally) ask a bit on nutrition, e.g. which foods how often, how much etc. Also I’d definitely ask about symptoms and treatments for various common illnesses such as ick, velvet, rot and fungus.

                                                                                                                                            Salt Water as well or just fresh?

                                                                                                                                            Tim




                                                                                                                                            On 27/4/04 11:45 AM, "sunil kamath" <sunnyvks@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            Hi Theresa,

                                                                                                                                            I am not sure what they might ask, but feel like they
                                                                                                                                            might ask u to net a fish w/o stressing it much, and
                                                                                                                                            what fishes go with which fishes....

                                                                                                                                            Whats the normal Ph, about cycling a tank, co2,
                                                                                                                                            fertilizers, plants..etc !!

                                                                                                                                            I am sure somebody who is working or has worked might
                                                                                                                                            be able to help u more with this.

                                                                                                                                            Anyway wish u all the best.....and do let us know the
                                                                                                                                            outcome....SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                            --- Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > Hello,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thought I'd run this by everyone here....there's a
                                                                                                                                            > nice lfs hiring, flexible hours, pay comparable to
                                                                                                                                            > what I'm making now, store discount. They want
                                                                                                                                            > someone who is in the hobby, ok that's no problem.
                                                                                                                                            > Said they'd ask some questions regarding fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                            > during the interview...any idea what kind of
                                                                                                                                            > questions? Generally how much knowledge does a lfs
                                                                                                                                            > require for new employees?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks for any help, I'm at a dead end with my
                                                                                                                                            > current job and this looks like a good opportunity.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Theresa
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1934 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Attention DESMILIE
                                                                                                                                             I don't know the answers to your other questions, but my suggestion is to NOT use anything that is not specifically marked for aquarium use. Aquarium salt is readily available, I get mine from the local WalMart. Fish/pet supply stores have it as well. It's affordable, and it takes me a few months to use one small 16 ounce package of aquarium salt. (I have a 15 US gallon tank.) Others have mentioned that canning salt will work, but I haven't tried it.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Erin VanKouwenberg
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Date: 04/26/04 20:51:52
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: do real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            and finally...can i use regular "sea salt" from the grocery or would i need to purchase a specific salt from a fish/pet supply?
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1935 From: desmilie Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Attention DESMILIE
                                                                                                                                            thanks for the reply erin:) that is what i was thinking...if it
                                                                                                                                            isn't made for an aquarium, should i use it? i use sea salt in other
                                                                                                                                            areas of my life for a more natural influence and was told i could
                                                                                                                                            use it in the aquarium but wasn't sure if i should trust that
                                                                                                                                            advice. i will pick up some salt from the fish store when i go by
                                                                                                                                            this afternoon.
                                                                                                                                            now, can anyone tell me how much to use to soak plants before adding
                                                                                                                                            them to an aquarium? i just set up a 55 gallon tank and i want to
                                                                                                                                            plant it before i add any fish but don't want to add
                                                                                                                                            any "hitchhikers". my other tank is infested with snails and i don't
                                                                                                                                            want a repeat performance. :/
                                                                                                                                            any help would be much appreciated.
                                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                                            DeSmilie





                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                                                                                                            VanKouwenberg" <witchywmn42@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > I don't know the answers to your other questions, but my
                                                                                                                                            suggestion is to
                                                                                                                                            > NOT use anything that is not specifically marked for aquarium use.
                                                                                                                                            Aquarium
                                                                                                                                            > salt is readily available, I get mine from the local WalMart.
                                                                                                                                            Fish/pet
                                                                                                                                            > supply stores have it as well. It's affordable, and it takes me a
                                                                                                                                            few months
                                                                                                                                            > to use one small 16 ounce package of aquarium salt. (I have a 15 US
                                                                                                                                            gallon
                                                                                                                                            > tank.) Others have mentioned that canning salt will work, but I
                                                                                                                                            haven't
                                                                                                                                            > tried it.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Erin VanKouwenberg
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1936 From: Tim Walker Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Attention DESMILIE
                                                                                                                                            Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Attention DESMILIE Just to throw a spanner I the works :-) In that situation I’ve be more than comfortable using pure salt. Make sure it’s not table salt or some other kind with anti-caking agents and things in it. I use rock salt, it’s pure NaCl and about as salt as you can get.

                                                                                                                                            Tim



                                                                                                                                            On 27/4/04 10:58 PM, "desmilie" <desmilie@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                            thanks for the reply erin:)  that is what i was thinking...if it
                                                                                                                                            isn't made for an aquarium, should i use it?  i use sea salt in other
                                                                                                                                            areas of my life for a more natural influence and was told i could
                                                                                                                                            use it in the aquarium but wasn't sure if i should trust that
                                                                                                                                            advice.  i will pick up some salt from the fish store when i go by
                                                                                                                                            this afternoon.  
                                                                                                                                            now, can anyone tell me how much to use to soak plants before adding
                                                                                                                                            them to an aquarium?  i just set up a 55 gallon tank and i want to
                                                                                                                                            plant it before i add any fish but don't want to add
                                                                                                                                            any "hitchhikers".  my other tank is infested with snails and i don't
                                                                                                                                            want a repeat performance.  :/
                                                                                                                                            any help would be much appreciated.
                                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                                            DeSmilie





                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                                                                                                            VanKouwenberg" <witchywmn42@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >  I don't know the answers to your other questions, but my
                                                                                                                                            suggestion is to
                                                                                                                                            > NOT use anything that is not specifically marked for aquarium use.
                                                                                                                                            Aquarium
                                                                                                                                            > salt is readily available, I get mine from the local WalMart.
                                                                                                                                            Fish/pet
                                                                                                                                            > supply stores have it as well. It's affordable, and it takes me a
                                                                                                                                            few months
                                                                                                                                            > to use one small 16 ounce package of aquarium salt. (I have a 15 US
                                                                                                                                            gallon
                                                                                                                                            > tank.) Others have mentioned that canning salt will work, but I
                                                                                                                                            haven't
                                                                                                                                            > tried it.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Erin VanKouwenberg
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1937 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
                                                                                                                                            Hello all

                                                                                                                                            Anyone with live plants out there I need your help. What would the
                                                                                                                                            best algae eater be for a live planted tank. thank you Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1938 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
                                                                                                                                            is it a big tank? plecos rock for those, if it's small, have you
                                                                                                                                            considered snails?
                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                            On Apr 27, 2004, at 6:57 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > Hello all
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Anyone with live plants out there I need your help. What would the
                                                                                                                                            > best algae eater be for a live planted tank.  thank you Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >  
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1939 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
                                                                                                                                            Otos as they do their job properly, stay small and
                                                                                                                                            very peaceful fish. Pls keep in groups of minimum
                                                                                                                                            minimum 3 at the least and 4 would be best depending
                                                                                                                                            on the size of the tank.

                                                                                                                                            PLS AVOID CHINESE ALGAE EATERS...

                                                                                                                                            Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                            --- freedombell2002 <KPribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > Hello all
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Anyone with live plants out there I need your help.
                                                                                                                                            > What would the
                                                                                                                                            > best algae eater be for a live planted tank. thank
                                                                                                                                            > you Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >





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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1940 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
                                                                                                                                            Hi Sherrie,

                                                                                                                                            What size is your tank? That is the most important factor in deciding
                                                                                                                                            what types of Algae Eating Aqautic Life will be best. Also, what kind
                                                                                                                                            of fish & plants do you currently have and/or are planning on keeping?

                                                                                                                                            Shrimp make a great addition and will easily fit into any size tank
                                                                                                                                            and give nice variety. The "Amano" Shrimp (Caridinia japonica) are my
                                                                                                                                            personal favorites. It is common to start a Planted Tank with as many
                                                                                                                                            as 1 per gallon. They stay small and are busy workers. They do best
                                                                                                                                            with some driftwood or bogwod in the tank and are excellent at
                                                                                                                                            cleaning small plants like Java Moss. There are many other types of
                                                                                                                                            Shrimp to choose from as well. From the Colorful Red Cherry to the
                                                                                                                                            plain grass shrimp, they come in different sizes and some will only
                                                                                                                                            eat certain types of Algae.

                                                                                                                                            a qoute from a recent post to the SiliconValleyAquariumSociety yahoo
                                                                                                                                            group "...1 shrimp/ gal is recommended for planted tanks. Amano
                                                                                                                                            starts his new Nature Aquria at this level or higher to knock down
                                                                                                                                            the algae at first when setting up a new tank. They will die off over
                                                                                                                                            8 months to 2 years depending on how much they eat and if they have a
                                                                                                                                            bit of driftwood or bog wood to restock the cellulose in their gut
                                                                                                                                            flora."

                                                                                                                                            More links about these guys:
                                                                                                                                            http://www.azgardens.com/shrimpfactory.php
                                                                                                                                            http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/shrimp.html
                                                                                                                                            http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Shrimp/
                                                                                                                                            http://users.skynet.be/caridina-japonica/


                                                                                                                                            Snails also make a great addition to any planted tank and fit easily
                                                                                                                                            into the smallest environment. Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS) and
                                                                                                                                            Nerite Snaile are among the more popular Algae eating snails that
                                                                                                                                            won't eat your plants. The added benifit of MTS is that they burrow
                                                                                                                                            into the substrate and keep it areated like a team of tiny
                                                                                                                                            rototillers.

                                                                                                                                            There are Siamese Algae Eaters (SAEs) that are great for a medium to
                                                                                                                                            Large tank. These are schooling fish that grow fast so only
                                                                                                                                            recommended in a Larger Tank in a group of 6 at a minimum. 1 per 10
                                                                                                                                            gallons is a good start. Make sure you get the real SAEs as there are
                                                                                                                                            more readily available False SAEs (Flying Fox) out there. Please do
                                                                                                                                            AVOID the Chinese Alge Eater (CAE) as they tend to get aggressive and
                                                                                                                                            lazy when they get bigger, CAE have reputation for eating slime coat
                                                                                                                                            off other fish for a quick snack.

                                                                                                                                            Otocinclus come in many different species but typically al stay very
                                                                                                                                            small. They are schooling fish and need to be kept in groups like the
                                                                                                                                            SAEs. 1 per 5 gallons is a good start.

                                                                                                                                            Plecostomous are popular Algae Eaters, available in many exotic
                                                                                                                                            colors and patterns and some can sell for several hundred. They can
                                                                                                                                            get up to 18 inches in size rather quickly, so not recommended for
                                                                                                                                            anything under 55 gallons. Plecos tend to be Nocturnal.
                                                                                                                                            There are the Clown Plecos that only get abot 3 inches in size and
                                                                                                                                            are hard workers. Also some Dwarh Plecos are available but can be
                                                                                                                                            pricey as they are less common. I have a Dwarf Bushynose Pleco that
                                                                                                                                            seems to be always busy.

                                                                                                                                            Mollies are common fish that are good for eating algae, but its not
                                                                                                                                            their main diet. They come in a wide variety of colors and sizes.

                                                                                                                                            Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                            Aaron


                                                                                                                                            --- In
                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                            <KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > Hello all
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Anyone with live plants out there I need your help. What would the
                                                                                                                                            > best algae eater be for a live planted tank. thank you Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1941 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: fungus
                                                                                                                                            does anyone know how long fish can harbor fungus before showing it? i
                                                                                                                                            bought 4 glowfish about a month ago and they've been fine but now 2 of
                                                                                                                                            them have a little tiny spot of fungus on their top lips. no one else
                                                                                                                                            in the tank seems infected and i'm treating them, but i'm left
                                                                                                                                            wondering where the heck this came from...
                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                            http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                            for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                            religion....
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1942 From: robertjean2 Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Broken Heater
                                                                                                                                            My heater (VISI-THERM 100W) has been broken inside the tank. I
                                                                                                                                            haven't noticed it immediately. A reddish liquid is likely to have
                                                                                                                                            made its way inside the tank. So far, the fish seem to do fine. Does
                                                                                                                                            someone know if this model contains any toxic substance such as
                                                                                                                                            mercury?

                                                                                                                                            Thanks,
                                                                                                                                            Robert
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1943 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Attention DESMILIE
                                                                                                                                            Aquarium salt is no different than canning or kosher salt, it's all salt
                                                                                                                                            made millions of years ago as oceans dried up, Save the damn money or
                                                                                                                                            buy the salt at the store and donate the rest of the money to a charity,
                                                                                                                                            but don't waste it on some corporate gurus' luxury palace.

                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1944 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/27/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: fungus
                                                                                                                                            It's not fungus,it's a bacterial infection as a result of poor water
                                                                                                                                            quality, usually brought on by either tank maint before fish addition
                                                                                                                                            or too many fish to handle the load of beneficial bacteria.. Do a
                                                                                                                                            water change, then test your water.

                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1945 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                            Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:

                                                                                                                                            What aspescts of the hobby intrest you
                                                                                                                                            the most?
                                                                                                                                            Is there a particular type of
                                                                                                                                            Aquatic Life that you like best?

                                                                                                                                            Please let us know your Favorite
                                                                                                                                            topics, if it is not in the list -
                                                                                                                                            please post it to the group so we can
                                                                                                                                            get a better understanding of the
                                                                                                                                            General Intrests of the Members.
                                                                                                                                            Thank you.

                                                                                                                                            o Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            o Freshwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            o Planted Tanks
                                                                                                                                            o Nature Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            o Brackish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            o Saltwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            o Reef Tanks
                                                                                                                                            o Ponds
                                                                                                                                            o Water Gardens
                                                                                                                                            o Goldfish & Koi
                                                                                                                                            o Tropical Fish
                                                                                                                                            o Shrimp
                                                                                                                                            o Eels
                                                                                                                                            o Crabs
                                                                                                                                            o Frogs
                                                                                                                                            o Snails
                                                                                                                                            o Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters
                                                                                                                                            o Amphibians
                                                                                                                                            o Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            o Turtles
                                                                                                                                            o Breeding
                                                                                                                                            o Aquascaping
                                                                                                                                            o Photography
                                                                                                                                            o Live Foods
                                                                                                                                            o other ~ please post


                                                                                                                                            To vote, please visit the following web page:

                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/surveys?id=1405371

                                                                                                                                            Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                                                            not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                                                            web site listed above.

                                                                                                                                            Thanks!
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1946 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: do real plants helpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                            Some pet store can get the potassium, most can't though. Just have to
                                                                                                                                            ask around. A strong brine is 3 tablespoons per quart. Table salt is
                                                                                                                                            fine. It's gonna get rinsed off, so the anti-caking agent won't be put
                                                                                                                                            in your tank. But if you feel better about sea salt, that's fine too,
                                                                                                                                            just more expensive.

                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1947 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Sea Shells
                                                                                                                                            How can I use the sea shells in my fresh water fish tank?
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1948 From: Chris Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sea Shells
                                                                                                                                            YOU CAN'T! I have always heard that because of the salt content in
                                                                                                                                            the shells, it is unhealthy for them to be in with freshwater fish.

                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, <akaize@z...>
                                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > How can I use the sea shells in my fresh water fish tank?
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1949 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sea Shells
                                                                                                                                            you actually can. it's not the salt, freshwater fish actually prefer
                                                                                                                                            some salt in the tank. however it does leech into the water and can
                                                                                                                                            harden it. if you live somewhere like long island, you actually need to
                                                                                                                                            add either shells or coral or calcium to the water if you want to keep
                                                                                                                                            snails and other invertibrates because our water is too soft and acidic
                                                                                                                                            for them, so really, it depends where you got them (to make sure
                                                                                                                                            there's no chemicals/bacteria on them), how hard your water is, and
                                                                                                                                            what type of fish you have...
                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                            On Apr 28, 2004, at 2:06 PM, Chris wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > YOU CAN'T! I have always heard that because of the salt content in
                                                                                                                                            > the shells, it is unhealthy for them to be in with freshwater fish.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, <akaize@z...>
                                                                                                                                            > wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > How can I use the sea shells in my fresh water fish tank?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                            > Service.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                            for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                            religion....
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1950 From: Ang P Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sea Shells
                                                                                                                                            Hiya,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Im new here, but I thought id throw in my 2 cents!!  I use shells in all of my tanks,
                                                                                                                                            not just for decoration but for the several species I have that love to hide.  My loaches will
                                                                                                                                            ram themselves into them 3 at a time, and my raphael stays in a large shell most the day!  I do not find that it changes my ph or my hardness, as I use them in my discus/ community tanks as well!
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Ang

                                                                                                                                            akaize@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                            How can I use the sea shells in my fresh water fish tank?


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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1951 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 5/1/2004, 6:30 pm
                                                                                                                                            Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                            Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting

                                                                                                                                            Saturday May 1, 2004
                                                                                                                                            6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
                                                                                                                                            This event repeats on the first Saturday of every month.

                                                                                                                                            Event Location: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave., San Jose CA, USA
                                                                                                                                            Street: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave.
                                                                                                                                            City, State, Zip: San Jose, CA

                                                                                                                                            Notes:
                                                                                                                                            Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meetings are held the first Saturday of every month in San Jose. See http://www.svas.info for more information

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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1952 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sea Shells
                                                                                                                                            You cannot use shells unless you have fish that need high pH. It s a
                                                                                                                                            long and dreadful death process if you try to acclimate improper pH
                                                                                                                                            types to extremes. There are exceptions, but why take the chance unless
                                                                                                                                            animal cruelty is the goal. Sorry to be sensitive, but in Western NY,
                                                                                                                                            we just had to listen to the story of a town worker that thoght the best
                                                                                                                                            way to handle a wounded dear was to drive over it with an industrial
                                                                                                                                            back hoe type lifter, and not over the head, but the body.
                                                                                                                                            Ass.......... and the curses can't be enough.

                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1953 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sea Shells
                                                                                                                                            Chris, it's not the salt at all. It's the calcium carbonate that the is
                                                                                                                                            the problem. It leaches too much mineral content into the water, thus
                                                                                                                                            hardening it and then it increases the pH. Too many minerals, too much
                                                                                                                                            Ph increase. I had a customer years ago, when I was new to the
                                                                                                                                            industry, who had an increasing pH problem. Never dealt with this
                                                                                                                                            problem myself before. After months of testing, and dying, turned out
                                                                                                                                            he had a couple of shells that came from the Gulf. After he removed
                                                                                                                                            them, all started to go well.

                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1954 From: rully Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: bubblebee & cherry red shirmp
                                                                                                                                            haloo, i'm a newbee in this forum..:):)
                                                                                                                                            please help me.... how to breed bubblebee shirmp and cherry red shirmp...
                                                                                                                                            i try to search breeding article with google and yahoo, but i can't find
                                                                                                                                            that... :(

                                                                                                                                            maybe someone able to help me share about bubblebee and cherry breeding
                                                                                                                                            article... :):):):):):)
                                                                                                                                            thank's :):)


                                                                                                                                            Rully Lukita
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1955 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sea Shells
                                                                                                                                            that's just not the case. the shells do not raise the ph all that high,
                                                                                                                                            though again, it depends on your water. i keep eggshells in my filter
                                                                                                                                            and a hunk of coral in the tank just to keep my snails alive...
                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                            On Apr 29, 2004, at 12:21 AM, bucks_boogie@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > You cannot use shells unless you have fish that need high pH. It s a
                                                                                                                                            > long and dreadful death process if you try to acclimate improper pH
                                                                                                                                            > types to extremes. There are exceptions, but why take the chance
                                                                                                                                            > unless
                                                                                                                                            > animal cruelty is the goal.  Sorry to be sensitive, but in Western NY,
                                                                                                                                            > we just had to listen to the story of a town worker that thoght the
                                                                                                                                            > best
                                                                                                                                            > way to handle a wounded dear was to drive over it with an industrial
                                                                                                                                            > back hoe type lifter, and not over the head, but the body.
                                                                                                                                            > Ass.......... and the curses can't be enough.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                            > Service.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                            web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1956 From: Ang P Date: 4/28/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: bubblebee & cherry red shirmp
                                                                                                                                            Try searching for bumblebee shrimp... 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            and red shrimp....
                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                            rully <rully@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            haloo, i'm a newbee in this forum..:):)
                                                                                                                                            please help me.... how to breed bubblebee shirmp and cherry red shirmp...
                                                                                                                                            i try to search breeding article with google and yahoo, but i can't find
                                                                                                                                            that... :(

                                                                                                                                            maybe someone able to help me share about bubblebee and cherry breeding
                                                                                                                                            article... :):):):):):)
                                                                                                                                            thank's :):)


                                                                                                                                            Rully Lukita





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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1957 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                            hello

                                                                                                                                            In the poll, I'm the other I hope thats okay? My "other" is
                                                                                                                                            behavior. Seems all my fish have a their own personalites, from the
                                                                                                                                            tank bully to the mother fish. I like watching them interact with
                                                                                                                                            other. The fish seem to know who they can bosses around and who they
                                                                                                                                            can't. Who is just a swiming buddy, Also who they can tease. I think
                                                                                                                                            its so funny to watch my black fin cat fish, swim really fast thur
                                                                                                                                            the schooling fish. Make them all scatter. I know it sounds fun but
                                                                                                                                            I think he gets kick out of it also.

                                                                                                                                            Sherrie


                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > What aspescts of the hobby intrest you
                                                                                                                                            > the most?
                                                                                                                                            > Is there a particular type of
                                                                                                                                            > Aquatic Life that you like best?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Please let us know your Favorite
                                                                                                                                            > topics, if it is not in the list -
                                                                                                                                            > please post it to the group so we can
                                                                                                                                            > get a better understanding of the
                                                                                                                                            > General Intrests of the Members.
                                                                                                                                            > Thank you.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > o Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            > o Freshwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > o Planted Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > o Nature Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > o Brackish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > o Saltwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > o Reef Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > o Ponds
                                                                                                                                            > o Water Gardens
                                                                                                                                            > o Goldfish & Koi
                                                                                                                                            > o Tropical Fish
                                                                                                                                            > o Shrimp
                                                                                                                                            > o Eels
                                                                                                                                            > o Crabs
                                                                                                                                            > o Frogs
                                                                                                                                            > o Snails
                                                                                                                                            > o Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters
                                                                                                                                            > o Amphibians
                                                                                                                                            > o Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            > o Turtles
                                                                                                                                            > o Breeding
                                                                                                                                            > o Aquascaping
                                                                                                                                            > o Photography
                                                                                                                                            > o Live Foods
                                                                                                                                            > o other ~ please post
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/surveys?
                                                                                                                                            id=1405371
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                                                            > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                                                            > web site listed above.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1958 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                            Hi Sherrie,

                                                                                                                                            Thats very interesting, I too like to observe them and take mental
                                                                                                                                            notes of their behaviors. Some of the fish even have names based on
                                                                                                                                            their personalitys.

                                                                                                                                            --- In
                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                            <KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > hello
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > In the poll, I'm the other I hope thats okay? My "other" is
                                                                                                                                            > behavior. Seems all my fish have a their own personalites, from the
                                                                                                                                            > tank bully to the mother fish. I like watching them interact with
                                                                                                                                            > other. The fish seem to know who they can bosses around and who
                                                                                                                                            they
                                                                                                                                            > can't. Who is just a swiming buddy, Also who they can tease. I
                                                                                                                                            think
                                                                                                                                            > its so funny to watch my black fin cat fish, swim really fast thur
                                                                                                                                            > the schooling fish. Make them all scatter. I know it sounds fun
                                                                                                                                            but
                                                                                                                                            > I think he gets kick out of it also.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > What aspescts of the hobby intrest you
                                                                                                                                            > > the most?
                                                                                                                                            > > Is there a particular type of
                                                                                                                                            > > Aquatic Life that you like best?
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Please let us know your Favorite
                                                                                                                                            > > topics, if it is not in the list -
                                                                                                                                            > > please post it to the group so we can
                                                                                                                                            > > get a better understanding of the
                                                                                                                                            > > General Intrests of the Members.
                                                                                                                                            > > Thank you.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > o Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            > > o Freshwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > > o Planted Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > > o Nature Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > > o Brackish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > > o Saltwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > > o Reef Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > > o Ponds
                                                                                                                                            > > o Water Gardens
                                                                                                                                            > > o Goldfish & Koi
                                                                                                                                            > > o Tropical Fish
                                                                                                                                            > > o Shrimp
                                                                                                                                            > > o Eels
                                                                                                                                            > > o Crabs
                                                                                                                                            > > o Frogs
                                                                                                                                            > > o Snails
                                                                                                                                            > > o Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters
                                                                                                                                            > > o Amphibians
                                                                                                                                            > > o Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            > > o Turtles
                                                                                                                                            > > o Breeding
                                                                                                                                            > > o Aquascaping
                                                                                                                                            > > o Photography
                                                                                                                                            > > o Live Foods
                                                                                                                                            > > o other ~ please post
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/surveys?
                                                                                                                                            > id=1405371
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                                                            > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                            Groups
                                                                                                                                            > > web site listed above.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1959 From: Ang P Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                            Hiya Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I didnt pick other, but I too love my fishes behaviour.. They all have different personalities!
                                                                                                                                            I especially love my clown loaches, I have 7 of them.. and they swim in a school and lay around on top of each other.  I also have several shells in the tank, and the loaches like to jam themselves (3at a time) into them!   Fish are definately wonderful creatures!
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Angela

                                                                                                                                            freedombell2002 <KPribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            hello

                                                                                                                                            In the poll,  I'm the other I hope thats okay? My "other" is
                                                                                                                                            behavior. Seems all my fish have a their own personalites, from the
                                                                                                                                            tank bully to the mother fish. I like watching them interact with
                                                                                                                                            other. The fish seem to know who they can bosses around and who they
                                                                                                                                            can't. Who is just a swiming buddy, Also who they can tease. I think
                                                                                                                                            its so funny to watch my black fin cat fish, swim really fast thur
                                                                                                                                            the schooling fish. Make them all scatter.  I know it sounds fun but
                                                                                                                                            I think he gets kick out of it also.

                                                                                                                                            Sherrie


                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > What aspescts of the hobby intrest you
                                                                                                                                            > the most?
                                                                                                                                            >  Is there a particular type of
                                                                                                                                            > Aquatic Life that you like best?

                                                                                                                                            > Please let us know your Favorite
                                                                                                                                            > topics, if it is not in the list -
                                                                                                                                            > please post it to the group so we can
                                                                                                                                            > get a better understanding of the
                                                                                                                                            > General Intrests of the Members.
                                                                                                                                            > Thank you.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >   o Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            >   o Freshwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            >   o Planted Tanks
                                                                                                                                            >   o Nature Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            >   o Brackish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            >   o Saltwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            >   o Reef Tanks
                                                                                                                                            >   o Ponds
                                                                                                                                            >   o Water Gardens
                                                                                                                                            >   o Goldfish & Koi
                                                                                                                                            >   o Tropical Fish 
                                                                                                                                            >   o Shrimp
                                                                                                                                            >   o Eels
                                                                                                                                            >   o Crabs
                                                                                                                                            >   o Frogs
                                                                                                                                            >   o Snails
                                                                                                                                            >   o Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters
                                                                                                                                            >   o Amphibians
                                                                                                                                            >   o Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            >   o Turtles
                                                                                                                                            >   o Breeding
                                                                                                                                            >   o Aquascaping
                                                                                                                                            >   o Photography
                                                                                                                                            >   o Live Foods
                                                                                                                                            >   o other ~ please post 
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/surveys?
                                                                                                                                            id=1405371 
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                                                            > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                                                            > web site listed above.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks!


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                                                                                                                                            Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs

                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1960 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: bubblebee & cherry red shirmp
                                                                                                                                            Hello Rully,

                                                                                                                                            Welcome to the group. Here are some links to resources for more
                                                                                                                                            information on Shrimp.

                                                                                                                                            http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Shrimp/
                                                                                                                                            http://www.fishpondinfo.com/shrimp2.htm
                                                                                                                                            http://www.azgardens.com/shrimpfactory.php
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterShrimp/
                                                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/bcraved/index.html
                                                                                                                                            http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/shrimp.html
                                                                                                                                            http://www.fishpondinfo.com/shrimp.htm
                                                                                                                                            http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm

                                                                                                                                            hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                            Aaron

                                                                                                                                            p.s. - if you find any other good sites, please add bookmarks to them
                                                                                                                                            in the links section, thanks

                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "rully"
                                                                                                                                            <rully@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > haloo, i'm a newbee in this forum..:):)
                                                                                                                                            > please help me.... how to breed bubblebee shirmp and cherry red
                                                                                                                                            shirmp...
                                                                                                                                            > i try to search breeding article with google and yahoo, but i can't
                                                                                                                                            find
                                                                                                                                            > that... :(
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > maybe someone able to help me share about bubblebee and cherry
                                                                                                                                            breeding
                                                                                                                                            > article... :):):):):):)
                                                                                                                                            > thank's :):)
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Rully Lukita
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1961 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
                                                                                                                                            just found another site with more info and links about Algae Eating
                                                                                                                                            Fish - http://www.fishpondinfo.com/sae.htm

                                                                                                                                            --- In
                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                            <KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > Hello all
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Anyone with live plants out there I need your help. What would the
                                                                                                                                            > best algae eater be for a live planted tank. thank you Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1962 From: amalthea23 Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                            i think it's important to keep track of your individual fish's
                                                                                                                                            behavior, often the first sign of illness or distress is behavior
                                                                                                                                            change!
                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                            On Apr 29, 2004, at 4:20 PM, Aaron R. Martin, cmt wrote:

                                                                                                                                            > Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Thats very interesting, I too like to observe them and take mental
                                                                                                                                            > notes of their behaviors. Some of the fish even have names based on
                                                                                                                                            > their personalitys.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                            > <KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > hello
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >  In the poll,  I'm the other I hope thats okay? My "other" is
                                                                                                                                            > > behavior. Seems all my fish have a their own personalites, from the
                                                                                                                                            > > tank bully to the mother fish. I like watching them interact with
                                                                                                                                            > > other. The fish seem to know who they can bosses around and who
                                                                                                                                            > they
                                                                                                                                            > > can't. Who is just a swiming buddy, Also who they can tease. I
                                                                                                                                            > think
                                                                                                                                            > > its so funny to watch my black fin cat fish, swim really fast thur
                                                                                                                                            > > the schooling fish. Make them all scatter.  I know it sounds fun
                                                                                                                                            > but
                                                                                                                                            > > I think he gets kick out of it also.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                            > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > What aspescts of the hobby intrest you
                                                                                                                                            > > > the most?
                                                                                                                                            > > >  Is there a particular type of
                                                                                                                                            > > > Aquatic Life that you like best?
                                                                                                                                            > > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > > Please let us know your Favorite
                                                                                                                                            > > > topics, if it is not in the list -
                                                                                                                                            > > > please post it to the group so we can
                                                                                                                                            > > > get a better understanding of the
                                                                                                                                            > > > General Intrests of the Members.
                                                                                                                                            > > > Thank you.
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Freshwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Planted Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Nature Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Brackish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Saltwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Reef Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Ponds
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Water Gardens
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Goldfish & Koi
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Tropical Fish 
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Shrimp
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Eels
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Crabs
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Frogs
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Snails
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Amphibians
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Turtles
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Breeding
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Aquascaping
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Photography
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o Live Foods
                                                                                                                                            > > >   o other ~ please post 
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/surveys?
                                                                                                                                            > > id=1405371 
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                                                            > > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                            > Groups
                                                                                                                                            > > > web site listed above.
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                            > Service.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                            web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1963 From: Chris Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                            I Keep Bettas. I have several betta tanks.

                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                            <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > i think it's important to keep track of your individual fish's
                                                                                                                                            > behavior, often the first sign of illness or distress is behavior
                                                                                                                                            > change!
                                                                                                                                            > amalthea
                                                                                                                                            > On Apr 29, 2004, at 4:20 PM, Aaron R. Martin, cmt wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Thats very interesting, I too like to observe them and take
                                                                                                                                            mental
                                                                                                                                            > > notes of their behaviors. Some of the fish even have names based
                                                                                                                                            on
                                                                                                                                            > > their personalitys.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > --- In
                                                                                                                                            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                            > > <KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > > hello
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >  In the poll,  I'm the other I hope thats okay? My "other" is
                                                                                                                                            > > > behavior. Seems all my fish have a their own personalites,
                                                                                                                                            from the
                                                                                                                                            > > > tank bully to the mother fish. I like watching them interact
                                                                                                                                            with
                                                                                                                                            > > > other. The fish seem to know who they can bosses around and who
                                                                                                                                            > > they
                                                                                                                                            > > > can't. Who is just a swiming buddy, Also who they can tease. I
                                                                                                                                            > > think
                                                                                                                                            > > > its so funny to watch my black fin cat fish, swim really fast
                                                                                                                                            thur
                                                                                                                                            > > > the schooling fish. Make them all scatter.  I know it sounds
                                                                                                                                            fun
                                                                                                                                            > > but
                                                                                                                                            > > > I think he gets kick out of it also.
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                            > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > > Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                            > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:
                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > > What aspescts of the hobby intrest you
                                                                                                                                            > > > > the most?
                                                                                                                                            > > > >  Is there a particular type of
                                                                                                                                            > > > > Aquatic Life that you like best?
                                                                                                                                            > > > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > > > Please let us know your Favorite
                                                                                                                                            > > > > topics, if it is not in the list -
                                                                                                                                            > > > > please post it to the group so we can
                                                                                                                                            > > > > get a better understanding of the
                                                                                                                                            > > > > General Intrests of the Members.
                                                                                                                                            > > > > Thank you.
                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Freshwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Planted Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Nature Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Brackish Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Saltwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Reef Tanks
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Ponds
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Water Gardens
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Goldfish & Koi
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Tropical Fish 
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Shrimp
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Eels
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Crabs
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Frogs
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Snails
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Amphibians
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Live Plants
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Turtles
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Breeding
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Aquascaping
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Photography
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o Live Foods
                                                                                                                                            > > > >   o other ~ please post 
                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/surveys?
                                                                                                                                            > > > id=1405371 
                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                                                            > > > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                            > > Groups
                                                                                                                                            > > > > web site listed above.
                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                            > >  
                                                                                                                                            > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > >  
                                                                                                                                            > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                            Terms of
                                                                                                                                            > > Service.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                            > web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1964 From: rully Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: bubblebee & cherry red shrimp
                                                                                                                                            ok thanks....... :):)

                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                            From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt [mailto:massagetherapist@...]
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 4:00 AM
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: bubblebee & cherry red
                                                                                                                                            shirmp


                                                                                                                                            Hello Rully,

                                                                                                                                            Welcome to the group. Here are some links to resources for more
                                                                                                                                            information on Shrimp.

                                                                                                                                            http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Shrimp/
                                                                                                                                            http://www.fishpondinfo.com/shrimp2.htm
                                                                                                                                            http://www.azgardens.com/shrimpfactory.php
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterShrimp/
                                                                                                                                            http://www.geocities.com/bcraved/index.html
                                                                                                                                            http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/shrimp.html
                                                                                                                                            http://www.fishpondinfo.com/shrimp.htm
                                                                                                                                            http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm

                                                                                                                                            hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                            Aaron

                                                                                                                                            p.s. - if you find any other good sites, please add bookmarks to them
                                                                                                                                            in the links section, thanks

                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "rully"
                                                                                                                                            <rully@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > haloo, i'm a newbee in this forum..:):)
                                                                                                                                            > please help me.... how to breed bubblebee shrimp and cherry red
                                                                                                                                            shrimp...
                                                                                                                                            > i try to search breeding article with google and yahoo, but i can't
                                                                                                                                            find
                                                                                                                                            > that... :(
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > maybe someone able to help me share about bubblebee and cherry
                                                                                                                                            breeding
                                                                                                                                            > article... :):):):):):)
                                                                                                                                            > thank's :):)
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Rully Lukita





                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1965 From: sunil kamath Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sea Shells
                                                                                                                                            maybe it has been boiled or has been in normal water
                                                                                                                                            for quite a long time then they might be okay.

                                                                                                                                            I have a friend who has kept some sea shells in his
                                                                                                                                            tank and they have been wearing off now !!

                                                                                                                                            Hope this helps....SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                            --- Ang P <angjo72@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > Hiya,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Im new here, but I thought id throw in my 2 cents!!
                                                                                                                                            > I use shells in all of my tanks,
                                                                                                                                            > not just for decoration but for the several species
                                                                                                                                            > I have that love to hide. My loaches will
                                                                                                                                            > ram themselves into them 3 at a time, and my raphael
                                                                                                                                            > stays in a large shell most the day! I do not find
                                                                                                                                            > that it changes my ph or my hardness, as I use them
                                                                                                                                            > in my discus/ community tanks as well!
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Ang
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > akaize@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > How can I use the sea shells in my fresh water fish
                                                                                                                                            > tank?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > ---------------------------------
                                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                            > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs





                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1966 From: freedombell2002 Date: 4/29/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
                                                                                                                                            Thanks Aaron for the link, and your thoughts.

                                                                                                                                            Sherrie

                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
                                                                                                                                            Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > just found another site with more info and links about Algae Eating
                                                                                                                                            > Fish - http://www.fishpondinfo.com/sae.htm
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                            > <KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > Hello all
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Anyone with live plants out there I need your help. What would
                                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                                            > > best algae eater be for a live planted tank. thank you Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1967 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 4/30/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Sea Shells
                                                                                                                                            Well Amalthea, we'll just have to just disagree here. I've done
                                                                                                                                            thousands of water tests for other people, in ten years of retail pet
                                                                                                                                            store work, and I have found shells as the most commonly caused pH
                                                                                                                                            increase. I'll leave it at that, gotta get to work and do even more
                                                                                                                                            water testing, :-)

                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1968 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/30/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Fish Egg
                                                                                                                                            I can see that my Swordtail is always cleaning the gravels by eating the
                                                                                                                                            remaining, does it mean that it also eats the fish eggs?
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1969 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 4/30/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: dried wooden logs in tank
                                                                                                                                            Can I use dried wooden logs as decoration in my sweet water tropical fish
                                                                                                                                            tank?
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1970 From: Matt Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: drift wood and rocks
                                                                                                                                            Hi all!
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Just added some more artificial plants to the tank.  The fish like the more secretive areas to play in.  Want to add some drift wood and maybe some larger rocks.  What should and shouldn't I do?
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Thanks,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Matt.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                            Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1971 From: red-eye Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                            What is LFS? please




                                                                                                                                            At 06:36 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                             I honestly dont know anything about snails in ponds as our winters are so cold they would never make it and we would never be able to find them.  I have this thing about putting anything in the pond that we know will die... I wouldnt think that they would be able to eat a snail as they are just goldfish
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            .. I do however get 2-3 algae eaters and put them in....... and then in September we take them out and the LFS pays us BIG BUCKS for them as they are usually about a foot long by summers end......
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            We also let our LFS Owner put a couple dozen Black Moors in the pond, and then he comes and gets them out at summers end and they are about 5" long.... He then sells them for 20 or 25$ and WOW do they ever sell well.... He also gives us all the food we need for the summer, so its a nice trade off.....
                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                            red-eye

                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                            Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                            The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                            If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                            http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                            For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                            http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                            ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                            Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                            Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                            ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1972 From: red-eye Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: pictures
                                                                                                                                            Just for giggles I checked out the site.The maker of my camera was not listed. I use a digital daily for my work. I take a minimun of 40-50 pics a day. I also use it for 30 second video with sound. Best part is that it is smaller than a pack of smokes. Casio _EXlim would be my suggestion.






                                                                                                                                             At 01:47 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                            Lol. Got the site.. http://www.dpreview.com/ without the �s�.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                                            Nim
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            From: Benedick Mark N. Chan [mailto:bmchan@...]
                                                                                                                                            Sent: 23 April 2004 07:46
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Hello Nimish,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            You can check out http://www.dpreviews.com for camera reviews. I bought mine (powershot a70) last november, and I am quite contented with it.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Good luck!
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -Ben
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                            From: Nimish Mathur
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:40 PM
                                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Great pictures J. Can you help me a bit. I am also looking to buy a descent digital camera now. The one I have is like 3 yr old now and out of technology. Which one is yours?
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Thanks,
                                                                                                                                            Nim
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                            Sent: 23 April 2004 01:54
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com; aquaria-freshwater
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pictures
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Hello,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I finally got a nice digital camera for Easter...I've been playing around with it and put together an album of my fish pics. If you'd like to take a look http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/album?.dir=/1632
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Theresa
                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                            red-eye

                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                            Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                            The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                            If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                            http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                            For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                            http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                            ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                            Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                            Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                            ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1973 From: red-eye Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                            Kelly & all if you would like to keep turtles may I suggest that they be adopted rather than taken from the wild where they belong :-)
                                                                                                                                            Contact turtlehomes.org & tell em red-eye sent ya. This org is non profit and has placed thousands needing good homes
                                                                                                                                            best of luck




                                                                                                                                            At 06:32 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                             Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                    Lets see here... The pond is about 18" deep near the falls and goes down to 3 1/2' at the deep end.    There are a couple of shallow shelves that we left in for the plants and they are about 2 ft deep.  The best that we can estimate how much water because of the way it goes from 18" to 3 1/2ft is between 1800 and 2000 gallons.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                 We have around 30 good sized fish that we know about.... Of course babies appear out of no where here and there... Usually comets.  Something to do with the comets each the Koi babies, which is why we never have found any baby Koi. 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                We actually have 3 turtles.... all painted that are in the pond.... Only one hung around for the winter, the others must have gotten out and went elsewhere for the winter.  We found all 3 of them in a stream near our house and brought them home.. They LOVE the pellets and come to the feeding spot just like the fish when the see us.  I doubt they will find their way back to us, but I am sure that we will find more.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                So far we have left the fish in the pond all winter... but this past winter was a tough one here in Upstate NY and we lost ALOT of them as we had temps that were 20 below for almost 2 weeks straight, so this year we are building a holding tank in our basement ( just a 4'X4" square made of landscape timbers, with a heavy duty liner and and air pump.... We will bring most of them in this year...  Our local Pond Store Owner lost OVER 50 thousand dollars in fish ( mostly Koi) this winter in his pond.... Its the first time EVER that he has lost more than one or 2 fish.      Most of the fish will eat out of my hand by mid summer, but by having them in a "pond" in the basement all winter, they wont have to be retrained each year...
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I hope this helped you some!
                                                                                                                                            Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Date: 04/22/04 20:35:30
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Hello Kelly

                                                                                                                                            How pretty is that ! Your fish are so colorful. THANK YOU  for
                                                                                                                                            sharing makes me even more excited. A couple of questions.... You say
                                                                                                                                            your pond is 12'x 15' how deep? and about how many gallons is that?
                                                                                                                                            also how many fish do you have? And what do you with the fish the
                                                                                                                                            rest of the time? and the turtle lives in that pond also? and what do
                                                                                                                                            you do with it? okay sorry that was more then a couple Q's "LOL" I
                                                                                                                                            have more but I will wait and get a hold of you later ( if thats
                                                                                                                                            okay? ) with more about the pond it self, ie like filters and air (
                                                                                                                                            if you need that ) and plants LOL oh jezz could go on forever but I
                                                                                                                                            will wait.

                                                                                                                                            Sherrie



                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >  Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >  Shubunkins are actually a fancy goldfish... but they come in some
                                                                                                                                            really
                                                                                                                                            > unique color patterns and tend to have longer, more free flowing
                                                                                                                                            fins and
                                                                                                                                            > tails...... I am in Upstate NY, so we only get to really enjoy the
                                                                                                                                            pond from
                                                                                                                                            > Mid May, Until September.... But it is still worth it.   The pond
                                                                                                                                            we have
                                                                                                                                            > now is just 12'X15', but next summer we are putting a 20'X25" in
                                                                                                                                            behind the
                                                                                                                                            > gazebo and connecting the 2 with a  stream! If you want to see
                                                                                                                                            pictures of
                                                                                                                                            > the pond and some of the fish.... Use this link..
                                                                                                                                            > http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Hugs,   Kelly


                                                                                                                                            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Date: 04/22/04 17:53:53
                                                                                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN

                                                                                                                                            > Shubunkins??? are they  in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                            > pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                            > vegas and hope it will b! e great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                            > high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit. 
                                                                                                                                            > But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > >  Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >   We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small
                                                                                                                                            ones
                                                                                                                                            > (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                            > > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                            > coloring of
                                                                                                                                            > > them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                            > BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                            > > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                            > > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond.
                                                                                                                                            They
                                                                                                                                            > seem
                                                                                                                                            > > happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Ben



                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                            red-eye

                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                            Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                            The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                            If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                            http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                            For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                            http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                            ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                            Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                            Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                            ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1974 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             Hi Red Eye... I checked out the site.... but I just wanted to clarify that the turtles we have in the pond, come from a small creak that is less than 100 yrds from our pond. They often wander to the pond on their own, and quite often we find them in the road and don't want them to get run over... The pond is also set up so they can get in and out and come and go .... which they do... We do not want a turtle that has to be brought inside in the winter (upstate NY, USA here)  so rough, hard and long winters... LOL
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Thanks so much for the link...... and I dont want you to think that we are totally up-rooting these little fellows from their home and making them miserable... We have one that would actually come out and over to us for pellets, when we would go out to feed the fish.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Kelly
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Date: 05/01/04 15:13:25
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Kelly & all if you would like to keep turtles may I suggest that they be adopted rather than taken from the wild where they belong :-)
                                                                                                                                            Contact turtlehomes.org & tell em red-eye sent ya. This org is non profit and has placed thousands needing good homes
                                                                                                                                            best of luck




                                                                                                                                            At 06:32 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                             Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                    Lets see here... The pond is about 18" deep near the falls and goes down to 3 1/2' at the deep end.    There are a couple of shallow shelves that we left in for the plants and they are about 2 ft deep.  The best that we can estimate how much water because of the way it goes from 18" to 3 1/2ft is between 1800 and 2000 gallons.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                 We have around 30 good sized fish that we know about.... Of course babies appear out of no where here and there... Usually comets.  Something to do with the comets each the Koi babies, which is why we never have found any baby Koi. 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                We actually have 3 turtles.... all painted that are in the pond.... Only one hung around for the winter, the others must have gotten out and went elsewhere for the winter.  We found all 3 of them in a stream near our house and brought them home.. They LOVE the pellets and come to the feeding spot just like the fish when the see us.  I doubt they will find their way back to us, but I am sure that we will find more.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                So far we have left the fish in the pond all winter... but this past winter was a tough one here in Upstate NY and we lost ALOT of them as we had temps that were 20 below for almost 2 weeks straight, so this year we are building a holding tank in our basement ( just a 4'X4" square made of landscape timbers, with a heavy duty liner and and air pump.... We will bring most of them in this year...  Our local Pond Store Owner lost OVER 50 thousand dollars in fish ( mostly Koi) this winter in his pond.... Its the first time EVER that he has lost more than one or 2 fish.      Most of the fish will eat out of my hand by mid summer, but by having them in a "pond" in the basement all winter, they wont have to be retrained each year...
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I hope this helped you some!
                                                                                                                                            Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Date: 04/22/04 20:35:30
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Hello Kelly

                                                                                                                                            How pretty is that ! Your fish are so colorful. THANK YOU  for
                                                                                                                                            sharing makes me even more excited. A couple of questions.... You say
                                                                                                                                            your pond is 12'x 15' how deep? and about how many gallons is that?
                                                                                                                                            also how many fish do you have? And what do you with the fish the
                                                                                                                                            rest of the time? and the turtle lives in that pond also? and what do
                                                                                                                                            you do with it? okay sorry that was more then a couple Q's "LOL" I
                                                                                                                                            have more but I will wait and get a hold of you later ( if thats
                                                                                                                                            okay? ) with more about the pond it self, ie like filters and air (
                                                                                                                                            if you need that ) and plants LOL oh jezz could go on forever but I
                                                                                                                                            will wait.

                                                                                                                                            Sherrie



                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >  Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >  Shubunkins are actually a fancy goldfish... but they come in some
                                                                                                                                            really
                                                                                                                                            > unique color patterns and tend to have longer, more free flowing
                                                                                                                                            fins and
                                                                                                                                            > tails...... I am in Upstate NY, so we only get to really enjoy the
                                                                                                                                            pond from
                                                                                                                                            > Mid May, Until September.... But it is still worth it.   The pond
                                                                                                                                            we have
                                                                                                                                            > now is just 12'X15', but next summer we are putting a 20'X25" in
                                                                                                                                            behind the
                                                                                                                                            > gazebo and connecting the 2 with a  stream! If you want to see
                                                                                                                                            pictures of
                                                                                                                                            > the pond and some of the fish.... Use this link..
                                                                                                                                            > http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Hugs,   Kelly


                                                                                                                                            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Date: 04/22/04 17:53:53
                                                                                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN

                                                                                                                                            > Shubunkins??? are they  in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                            > pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                            > vegas and hope it will b! e great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                            > high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit. 
                                                                                                                                            > But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > >  Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >   We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small
                                                                                                                                            ones
                                                                                                                                            > (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                            > > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                            > coloring of
                                                                                                                                            > > them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                            > BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                            > > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                            > > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond.
                                                                                                                                            They
                                                                                                                                            > seem
                                                                                                                                            > > happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Ben



                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1975 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: LFS (was - Re: BEN)
                                                                                                                                            LFS = Local Fish Store

                                                                                                                                            btw, there is a LFS folder in the Links section to list your
                                                                                                                                            favorites.

                                                                                                                                            L F S
                                                                                                                                            Local Fish Stores ~ post links, phone #'s, address and info of your
                                                                                                                                            favorite lfs ~ Sorted into folders by Country, State/Provinince,
                                                                                                                                            Region, County, City, etc...

                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/links/lfs
                                                                                                                                            _001071355968/


                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, red-eye
                                                                                                                                            <r_ohle@p...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > What is LFS? please
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > At 06:36 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > I honestly dont know anything about snails in ponds as our
                                                                                                                                            winters are
                                                                                                                                            > > so cold they would never make it and we would never be able to
                                                                                                                                            find
                                                                                                                                            > > them. I have this thing about putting anything in the pond that
                                                                                                                                            we know
                                                                                                                                            > > will die... I wouldnt think that they would be able to eat a
                                                                                                                                            snail as
                                                                                                                                            > > they are just goldfish
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >.. I do however get 2-3 algae eaters and put them in....... and
                                                                                                                                            then in
                                                                                                                                            > >September we take them out and the LFS pays us BIG BUCKS for them
                                                                                                                                            as they
                                                                                                                                            > >are usually about a foot long by summers end......
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >We also let our LFS Owner put a couple dozen Black Moors in the
                                                                                                                                            pond, and
                                                                                                                                            > >then he comes and gets them out at summers end and they are about
                                                                                                                                            5"
                                                                                                                                            > >long.... He then sells them for 20 or 25$ and WOW do they ever
                                                                                                                                            sell
                                                                                                                                            > >well.... He also gives us all the food we need for the summer, so
                                                                                                                                            its a
                                                                                                                                            > >nice trade off.....
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Regards
                                                                                                                                            > red-eye
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            > The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S
                                                                                                                                            ulcata
                                                                                                                                            > <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Make sure you check out these URLs
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                            > If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            <http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml>http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test
                                                                                                                                            .shtml
                                                                                                                                            > <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            > Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                            > For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                            > <http://www.sulcata-station.org>http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                            > ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            > The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps>http://groups.yahoo.com/
                                                                                                                                            group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                            > Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                            > Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                            > ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1976 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                            hey, red eye, thanks for that info! that's a great idea. we're known
                                                                                                                                            locally as the "home for wayward turtles" as all abandoned or abused
                                                                                                                                            turtles seem to end up with us, but it's great to spread the word on
                                                                                                                                            places like that!
                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                            On May 1, 2004, at 3:32 PM, ~~Kelly~~ wrote:

                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >  Hi Red Eye... I checked out the site.... but I just wanted to clarify
                                                                                                                                            > that the turtles we have in the pond, come from a small creak that is
                                                                                                                                            > less than 100 yrds from our pond. They often wander to the pond on
                                                                                                                                            > their own, and quite often we find them in the road and don't want
                                                                                                                                            > them to get run over... The pond is also set up so they can get in and
                                                                                                                                            > out and come and go .... which they do... We do not want a turtle that
                                                                                                                                            > has to be brought inside in the winter (upstate NY, USA here)  so
                                                                                                                                            > rough, hard and long winters... LOL
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > Thanks so much for the link...... and I dont want you to think that we
                                                                                                                                            > are totally up-rooting these little fellows from their home and making
                                                                                                                                            > them miserable... We have one that would actually come out and over to
                                                                                                                                            > us for pellets, when we would go out to feed the fish.
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > Kelly
                                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Date: 05/01/04 15:13:25
                                                                                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > Kelly & all if you would like to keep turtles may I suggest that they
                                                                                                                                            > be adopted rather than taken from the wild where they belong :-)
                                                                                                                                            > Contact turtlehomes.org & tell em red-eye sent ya. This org is non
                                                                                                                                            > profit and has placed thousands needing good homes
                                                                                                                                            > best of luck
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > At 06:32 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >  Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >         Lets see here... The pond is about 18" deep near the falls and
                                                                                                                                            > goes down to 3 1/2' at the deep end.    There are a couple of shallow
                                                                                                                                            > shelves that we left in for the plants and they are about 2 ft deep. 
                                                                                                                                            > The best that we can estimate how much water because of the way it
                                                                                                                                            > goes from 18" to 3 1/2ft is between 1800 and 2000 gallons.
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >      We have around 30 good sized fish that we know about.... Of
                                                                                                                                            > course babies appear out of no where here and there... Usually
                                                                                                                                            > comets.  Something to do with the comets each the Koi babies, which is
                                                                                                                                            > why we never have found any baby Koi. 
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >     We actually have 3 turtles.... all painted that are in the
                                                                                                                                            > pond.... Only one hung around for the winter, the others must have
                                                                                                                                            > gotten out and went elsewhere for the winter.  We found all 3 of them
                                                                                                                                            > in a stream near our hou! se and brought them home.. They LOVE the
                                                                                                                                            > pellets and come to the feeding spot just like the fish when the see
                                                                                                                                            > us.  I doubt they will find their way back to us, but I am sure that
                                                                                                                                            > we will find more.
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >     So far we have left the fish in the pond all winter... but this
                                                                                                                                            > past winter was a tough one here in Upstate NY and we lost ALOT of
                                                                                                                                            > them as we had temps that were 20 below for almost 2 weeks straight,
                                                                                                                                            > so this year we are building a holding tank in our basement ( just a
                                                                                                                                            > 4'X4" square made of landscape timbers, with a heavy duty liner and
                                                                                                                                            > and air pump.... We will bring most of them in this year...  Our local
                                                                                                                                            > Pond Store Owner lost OVER 50 thousand dollars in fish ( mostly Koi)
                                                                                                                                            > this winter in his pond.... Its the first time EVER that he has lost
                                                                                                                                            > more than one or 2 fish.      Most of the fish will eat out of my hand
                                                                                                                                            > by mid summer, but by having them in a "pond" in the basement all
                                                                                                                                            > winter, they wont have to be retrained each ye! ar...
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > I hope this helped you some!
                                                                                                                                            > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Date: 04/22/04 20:35:30
                                                                                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > Hello Kelly
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > How pretty is that ! Your fish are so colorful. THANK YOU  for
                                                                                                                                            > sharing makes me even more excited. A couple of questions.... You say
                                                                                                                                            > your pond is 12'x 15' how deep? and about how many gallons is that?
                                                                                                                                            > also how many fish do you have? And what do you with the fish the
                                                                                                                                            > rest of the time? and the turtle lives in that pond also? and what do
                                                                                                                                            > you do with it? okay sorry that was more then a couple Q's "LOL" I
                                                                                                                                            > have more but I will wait and get a hold of you later ( if thats
                                                                                                                                            > okay? ) with more about the pond it! self, ie like filters and air (
                                                                                                                                            > if you need that ) and plants LOL oh jezz could go on forever but I
                                                                                                                                            > will wait.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > >  Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >  Shubunkins are actually a fancy goldfish... but they come in some
                                                                                                                                            > really
                                                                                                                                            > > unique color patterns and tend to have longer, more free flowing
                                                                                                                                            > fins and
                                                                                                                                            > > tails...... I am in Upstate NY, so we only get to really enjoy the
                                                                                                                                            > pond from
                                                                                                                                            > > Mid May, Until September.... But it is still worth it.   The pond
                                                                                                                                            > we have
                                                                                                                                            > > now is just 12'X15', but next summer we are putting a 20'X25" in
                                                                                                                                            > behind the
                                                                                                                                            > > gazebo and connecting the 2 with a  stream! If you want to see
                                                                                                                                            > pictures of
                                                                                                                                            > > the pond and some of the fish.... Use this link..
                                                                                                                                            > > http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                            > >! ;
                                                                                                                                            > > Hugs,   Kelly
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > & gt; From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > > Date: 04/22/04 17:53:53
                                                                                                                                            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Shubunkins??? are they  in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                            > > pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                            > > vegas and hope it will b! e great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                            > > high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit. 
                                                                                                                                            > > But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            > > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > > >  Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > >   We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small
                                                                                                                                            > ones
                                                                                                                                            > > (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                            > > > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                            > > coloring of
                                                                                                                                            > > ! > them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                            > > BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                            > > > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                            > > > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                            > > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                            > > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > > > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                            > > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                            > > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond.
                                                                                                                                            > They
                                                                                                                                            > > seem
                                                                                                                                            > > > happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                            > > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                            > > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > > Ben
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            > • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                            > •  
                                                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                            > • FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > •  
                                                                                                                                            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                            > Service.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                            > Service.
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1977 From: red-eye Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                            Way cool Kelly. You are lucky. I have been keeping turtles for almost 15 years. I have never seen one in the wild.Regards,
                                                                                                                                            red-eye





                                                                                                                                            At 12:32 PM 5/1/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             Hi Red Eye... I checked out the site.... but I just wanted to clarify that the turtles we have in the pond, come from a small creak that is less than 100 yrds from our pond. They often wander to the pond on their own, and quite often we find them in the road and don't want them to get run over... The pond is also set up so they can get in and out and come and go .... which they do... We do not want a turtle that has to be brought inside in the winter (upstate NY, USA here)  so rough, hard and long winters... LOL
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Thanks so much for the link...... and I dont want you to think that we are totally up-rooting these little fellows from their home and making them miserable... We have one that would actually come out and over to us for pellets, when we would go out to feed the fish.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Kelly
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Date: 05/01/04 15:13:25
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Kelly & all if you would like to keep turtles may I suggest that they be adopted rather than taken from the wild where they belong :-)
                                                                                                                                            Contact turtlehomes.org & tell em red-eye sent ya. This org is non profit and has placed thousands needing good homes
                                                                                                                                            best of luck




                                                                                                                                            At 06:32 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                             Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                    Lets see here... The pond is about 18" deep near the falls and goes down to 3 1/2' at the deep end.    There are a couple of shallow shelves that we left in for the plants and they are about 2 ft deep.  The best that we can estimate how much water because of the way it goes from 18" to 3 1/2ft is between 1800 and 2000 gallons.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                 We have around 30 good sized fish that we know about.... Of course babies appear out of no where here and there... Usually comets.  Something to do with the comets each the Koi babies, which is why we never have found any baby Koi. 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                We actually have 3 turtles.... all painted that are in the pond.... Only one hung around for the winter, the others must have gotten out and went elsewhere for the winter.  We found all 3 of them in a stream near our house and brought them home.. They LOVE the pellets and come to the feeding spot just like the fish when the see us.  I doubt they will find their way back to us, but I am sure that we will find more.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                So far we have left the fish in the pond all winter... but this past winter was a tough one here in Upstate NY and we lost ALOT of them as we had temps that were 20 below for almost 2 weeks straight, so this year we are building a holding tank in our basement ( just a 4'X4" square made of landscape timbers, with a heavy duty liner and and air pump.... We will bring most of them in this year...  Our local Pond Store Owner lost OVER 50 thousand dollars in fish ( mostly Koi) this winter in his pond.... Its the first time EVER that he has lost more than one or 2 fish.      Most of the fish will eat out of my hand by mid summer, but by having them in a "pond" in the basement all winter, they wont have to be retrained each year...
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I hope this helped you some!Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Date: 04/22/04 20:35:30
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Hello Kelly

                                                                                                                                            How pretty is that ! Your fish are so colorful. THANK YOU  for
                                                                                                                                            sharing makes me even more excited. A couple of questions.... You say
                                                                                                                                            your pond is 12'x 15' how deep? and about how many gallons is that?
                                                                                                                                            also how many fish do you have? And what do you with the fish the
                                                                                                                                            rest of the time? and the turtle lives in that pond also? and what do
                                                                                                                                            you do with it? okay sorry that was more then a couple Q's "LOL" I
                                                                                                                                            have more but I will wait and get a hold of you later ( if thats
                                                                                                                                            okay? ) with more about the pond it self, ie like filters and air (
                                                                                                                                            if you need that ) and plants LOL oh jezz could go on forever but I
                                                                                                                                            will wait.

                                                                                                                                            Sherrie



                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >  Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >  Shubunkins are actually a fancy goldfish... but they come in some
                                                                                                                                            really
                                                                                                                                            > unique color patterns and tend to have longer, more free flowing
                                                                                                                                            fins and
                                                                                                                                            > tails...... I am in Upstate NY, so we only get to really enjoy the
                                                                                                                                            pond from
                                                                                                                                            > Mid May, Until September.... But it is still worth it.   The pond
                                                                                                                                            we have
                                                                                                                                            > now is just 12'X15', but next summer we are putting a 20'X25" in
                                                                                                                                            behind the
                                                                                                                                            > gazebo and connecting the 2 with a  stream! If you want to see
                                                                                                                                            pictures of
                                                                                                                                            > the pond and some of the fish.... Use this link..
                                                                                                                                            > http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Hugs,   Kelly

                                                                                                                                            >&nbs!
                                                                                                                                            p;
                                                                                                                                            &

                                                                                                                                            gt; From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Date: 04/22/04 17:53:53
                                                                                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN

                                                                                                                                            > Shubunkins??? are they  in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                            > pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                            > vegas and hope it will b! e great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                            > high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit. 
                                                                                                                                            > But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > >  Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >   We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small
                                                                                                                                            ones
                                                                                                                                            > (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                            > > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                            > coloring of
                                                                                                                                            > > them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                            > BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                            > > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                            > > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond.
                                                                                                                                            They
                                                                                                                                            > seem
                                                                                                                                            > > happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Ben



                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links  


                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                            red-eye

                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                            Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                            The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                            If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                            http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                            For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                            http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                            ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                            Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                            Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                            ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1978 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             These are just painted turtles.... Nothing fancy.... I guess they would compare to the common garden snake....... LOL
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Date: 05/01/04 16:18:39
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Way cool Kelly. You are lucky. I have been keeping turtles for almost 15 years. I have never seen one in the wild.Regards,
                                                                                                                                            red-eye





                                                                                                                                            At 12:32 PM 5/1/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             Hi Red Eye... I checked out the site.... but I just wanted to clarify that the turtles we have in the pond, come from a small creak that is less than 100 yrds from our pond. They often wander to the pond on their own, and quite often we find them in the road and don't want them to get run over... The pond is also set up so they can get in and out and come and go .... which they do... We do not want a turtle that has to be brought inside in the winter (upstate NY, USA here)  so rough, hard and long winters... LOL
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Thanks so much for the link...... and I dont want you to think that we are totally up-rooting these little fellows from their home and making them miserable... We have one that would actually come out and over to us for pellets, when we would go out to feed the fish.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Kelly
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Date: 05/01/04 15:13:25
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Kelly & all if you would like to keep turtles may I suggest that they be adopted rather than taken from the wild where they belong :-)
                                                                                                                                            Contact turtlehomes.org & tell em red-eye sent ya. This org is non profit and has placed thousands needing good homes
                                                                                                                                            best of luck




                                                                                                                                            At 06:32 AM 4/23/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                             Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                    Lets see here... The pond is about 18" deep near the falls and goes down to 3 1/2' at the deep end.    There are a couple of shallow shelves that we left in for the plants and they are about 2 ft deep.  The best that we can estimate how much water because of the way it goes from 18" to 3 1/2ft is between 1800 and 2000 gallons.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                 We have around 30 good sized fish that we know about.... Of course babies appear out of no where here and there... Usually comets.  Something to do with the comets each the Koi babies, which is why we never have found any baby Koi. 
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                We actually have 3 turtles.... all painted that are in the pond.... Only one hung around for the winter, the others must have gotten out and went elsewhere for the winter.  We found all 3 of them in a stream near our house and brought them home.. They LOVE the pellets and come to the feeding spot just like the fish when the see us.  I doubt they will find their way back to us, but I am sure that we will find more.
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                So far we have left the fish in the pond all winter... but this past winter was a tough one here in Upstate NY and we lost ALOT of them as we had temps that were 20 below for almost 2 weeks straight, so this year we are building a holding tank in our basement ( just a 4'X4" square made of landscape timbers, with a heavy duty liner and and air pump.... We will bring most of them in this year...  Our local Pond Store Owner lost OVER 50 thousand dollars in fish ( mostly Koi) this winter in his pond.... Its the first time EVER that he has lost more than one or 2 fish.      Most of the fish will eat out of my hand by mid summer, but by having them in a "pond" in the basement all winter, they wont have to be retrained each year...
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            I hope this helped you some!Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Date: 04/22/04 20:35:30
                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Hello Kelly

                                                                                                                                            How pretty is that ! Your fish are so colorful. THANK YOU  for
                                                                                                                                            sharing makes me even more excited. A couple of questions.... You say
                                                                                                                                            your pond is 12'x 15' how deep? and about how many gallons is that?
                                                                                                                                            also how many fish do you have? And what do you with the fish the
                                                                                                                                            rest of the time? and the turtle lives in that pond also? and what do
                                                                                                                                            you do with it? okay sorry that was more then a couple Q's "LOL" I
                                                                                                                                            have more but I will wait and get a hold of you later ( if thats
                                                                                                                                            okay? ) with more about the pond it self, ie like filters and air (
                                                                                                                                            if you need that ) and plants LOL oh jezz could go on forever but I
                                                                                                                                            will wait.

                                                                                                                                            Sherrie



                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >  Hi Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >  Shubunkins are actually a fancy goldfish... but they come in some
                                                                                                                                            really
                                                                                                                                            > unique color patterns and tend to have longer, more free flowing
                                                                                                                                            fins and
                                                                                                                                            > tails...... I am in Upstate NY, so we only get to really enjoy the
                                                                                                                                            pond from
                                                                                                                                            > Mid May, Until September.... But it is still worth it.   The pond
                                                                                                                                            we have
                                                                                                                                            > now is just 12'X15', but next summer we are putting a 20'X25" in
                                                                                                                                            behind the
                                                                                                                                            > gazebo and connecting the 2 with a  stream! If you want to see
                                                                                                                                            pictures of
                                                                                                                                            > the pond and some of the fish.... Use this link..
                                                                                                                                            > http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > Hugs,   Kelly

                                                                                                                                            >&nbs!
                                                                                                                                            p;
                                                                                                                                            &

                                                                                                                                            gt; From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Date: 04/22/04 17:53:53
                                                                                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: BEN

                                                                                                                                            > Shubunkins??? are they  in the family of kio? I will be starting a
                                                                                                                                            > pond in the late summer here. pretty excited about. I live in las
                                                                                                                                            > vegas and hope it will b! e great all year around. summers can get as
                                                                                                                                            > high as 115 fahrenheit and winters as low as lower 30 fahrenheit. 
                                                                                                                                            > But as I get closer to doing it I will want to learn more. Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                            > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                            > >  Hi Ben,
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >   We have Shubunkins in our pond also and I also have 4 small
                                                                                                                                            ones
                                                                                                                                            > (2-3") in
                                                                                                                                            > > a tank inside that I bought over the winter because I liked the
                                                                                                                                            > coloring of
                                                                                                                                            > > them.....  They do real well in our pond, but heads up..... THEY
                                                                                                                                            > BREED LIKE
                                                                                                                                            > > CRAZY AND WILL TRY AND BREED WITH ANYTHING...... LOL
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Good luck and keep me posted......
                                                                                                                                            > > Hugs, Kelly
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > > Date: 04/21/04 22:33:16
                                                                                                                                            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Bought 2 shubunkins yesterday. I placed them in the fish pond.
                                                                                                                                            They
                                                                                                                                            > seem
                                                                                                                                            > > happy swimming around. ^_^
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                            > > 
                                                                                                                                            > > Ben



                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links  


                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1979 From: Michelle Cota Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
                                                                                                                                            I would say the otocinclus


                                                                                                                                            >From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                            >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Need algae eater for a live
                                                                                                                                            >planted tank.......
                                                                                                                                            >Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:07:30 -0400
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >is it a big tank? plecos rock for those, if it's small, have you
                                                                                                                                            >considered snails?
                                                                                                                                            >amalthea
                                                                                                                                            >On Apr 27, 2004, at 6:57 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            > > Hello all
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Anyone with live plants out there I need your help. What would the
                                                                                                                                            > > best algae eater be for a live planted tank.� thank you Sherrie
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > > � To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                            > > �
                                                                                                                                            > > � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            > > �
                                                                                                                                            > > � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                            > > Service.
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                            >http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                            >web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1980 From: Michelle Cota Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Broken Heater
                                                                                                                                            The reddish liquid that is coming out is more than likely rust. Submersible
                                                                                                                                            heaters are made out of coiled metal and glass


                                                                                                                                            >From: "robertjean2" <robertjean2@...>
                                                                                                                                            >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                            >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Broken Heater
                                                                                                                                            >Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:10:15 -0000
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >My heater (VISI-THERM 100W) has been broken inside the tank. I
                                                                                                                                            >haven't noticed it immediately. A reddish liquid is likely to have
                                                                                                                                            >made its way inside the tank. So far, the fish seem to do fine. Does
                                                                                                                                            >someone know if this model contains any toxic substance such as
                                                                                                                                            >mercury?
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >Thanks,
                                                                                                                                            >Robert
                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                            >

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                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1981 From: acct9622 Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
                                                                                                                                            I've had an albino African Claw frog for about 6 months. Until about
                                                                                                                                            a month ago he/she seemed very healthy. Feeding time was a frenzy,
                                                                                                                                            loved to eat shrimp pellets. About a month ago he stopped eating
                                                                                                                                            except for a little flake food and always floated at the top of the
                                                                                                                                            tank. I took him to the pet store to be checked and they thought my
                                                                                                                                            ciclids were probably intimidating him. He shows no sign of disease,
                                                                                                                                            not bloated. I moved the ciclids to another tank but he has
                                                                                                                                            continued to deteriorate. He looks skinny now and won't eat
                                                                                                                                            anything. I have even tried hand feeding him worms. He never opens
                                                                                                                                            his mouth. Today he started to float on his back and looks like he's
                                                                                                                                            almost dead, although he moves when I pick him up. He used to stuff
                                                                                                                                            everything he could find into his mouth. Is it possible he swallowed
                                                                                                                                            a rock that is blocking his digestive system? If anyone has any
                                                                                                                                            suggestions please send me an email soon. I doubt if he will last
                                                                                                                                            much longer if I don't get him to eat.
                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 1982 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/1/2004
                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: do real plantshelpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                              thanks...i'll try soaking in salt but think i'm just about resigned to having the snails inhabiting my tanks...lol  after i get the 55 gallon tank cycled i will look into getting some clown loaches to keep them under control.
                                                                                                                                              DeSmilie
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Peeing In The Snow
                                                                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Date: 05/01/04 20:23:08
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: do real plantshelpammonia woes? answer YES
                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              Some pet store can get the potassium, most can't though.  Just have to
                                                                                                                                              ask around.  A strong brine is 3 tablespoons per quart.  Table salt is
                                                                                                                                              fine.  It's gonna get rinsed off, so the anti-caking agent won't be put
                                                                                                                                              in your tank.  But if you feel better about sea salt, that's fine too,
                                                                                                                                              just more expensive.

                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"

                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                              ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1983 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: drift wood and rocks
                                                                                                                                              Hi Matt,

                                                                                                                                              Driftwood is readily available at the LFS here. They have 2 kinds,
                                                                                                                                              the Plain brown & the 2tone African Driftwood. I shop around looking
                                                                                                                                              for really different pieces. My fish like to hide in cave like pieces
                                                                                                                                              and swim thru pieces with arches and holes. There are different kinds
                                                                                                                                              of rocks at the LFS here, from natural to plastic. The nice thing
                                                                                                                                              about plastic is it can made into any shape & color. I have 2 pieces
                                                                                                                                              that look like real driftwood underwater and have caves, tunnels and
                                                                                                                                              holes for fish to play in. There is the real popular all natural pink
                                                                                                                                              & white (sandstone?) rocks that are usally carved into some kind of
                                                                                                                                              arch shape. Lava rock is popular also, it can be carved to have holes
                                                                                                                                              and tunnels for fish to swim in. It may also be a benifcial gathering
                                                                                                                                              point for bacteria because lava rock is very pourous. I try to avoid
                                                                                                                                              anything with sharp or rough edges so the fish can't get injured as
                                                                                                                                              easily.
                                                                                                                                              I wouldn't put anything in the tank that I collected myself unless it
                                                                                                                                              was sterilized somehow.
                                                                                                                                              Have fun and be creative. I change the decorations around every month
                                                                                                                                              to try different looks.
                                                                                                                                              Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                              Aaron

                                                                                                                                              ps - I couldn't find the website "www.peaceinlife.com" was not found.

                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Matt"
                                                                                                                                              <mrwb@d...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                              > Hi all!
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Just added some more artificial plants to the tank. The fish like
                                                                                                                                              the more secretive areas to play in. Want to add some drift wood and
                                                                                                                                              maybe some larger rocks. What should and shouldn't I do?
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > Matt.
                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                              > "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is
                                                                                                                                              ourself."
                                                                                                                                              > Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1984 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: dried wooden logs in tank
                                                                                                                                              Is this Driwtwood or bogwood from a LFS?

                                                                                                                                              If it is just wood from around the yard it will float and may have
                                                                                                                                              unwanted things on it.

                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, <akaize@z...>
                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                              > Can I use dried wooden logs as decoration in my sweet water
                                                                                                                                              tropical fish
                                                                                                                                              > tank?
                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1985 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Fish Egg
                                                                                                                                              What kinds of fish do you have that are laying eggs?

                                                                                                                                              Fish will eat eggs, even their own if hungry enough. If you want to
                                                                                                                                              give the eggs a chance to mature, it is best to seperate them from
                                                                                                                                              the fish.

                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, <akaize@z...>
                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                              > I can see that my Swordtail is always cleaning the gravels by
                                                                                                                                              eating the
                                                                                                                                              > remaining, does it mean that it also eats the fish eggs?
                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1986 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
                                                                                                                                              Thats sad to hear. I have not kept any frogs yet, but the Dwarf kind
                                                                                                                                              are on my shopping list. How long do the Albino African Clawed Frogs
                                                                                                                                              live in captivity?

                                                                                                                                              There is a bookmark to a website in the Links Section in the folder:
                                                                                                                                              Amphibians
                                                                                                                                              Frogs, Turtles, Newts, Tadpoles & Mudskippers

                                                                                                                                              All About African Clawed Frogs.
                                                                                                                                              30+ pages of info on African Clawed frogs, Xenopus laevis with
                                                                                                                                              disease pictures and treatment info. Plus free mailing list.

                                                                                                                                              http://clawedfrogs.tripod.com

                                                                                                                                              Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                              Aaron

                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "acct9622"
                                                                                                                                              <atreolo@w...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                              > I've had an albino African Claw frog for about 6 months. Until
                                                                                                                                              about
                                                                                                                                              > a month ago he/she seemed very healthy. Feeding time was a frenzy,
                                                                                                                                              > loved to eat shrimp pellets. About a month ago he stopped eating
                                                                                                                                              > except for a little flake food and always floated at the top of the
                                                                                                                                              > tank. I took him to the pet store to be checked and they thought
                                                                                                                                              my
                                                                                                                                              > ciclids were probably intimidating him. He shows no sign of
                                                                                                                                              disease,
                                                                                                                                              > not bloated. I moved the ciclids to another tank but he has
                                                                                                                                              > continued to deteriorate. He looks skinny now and won't eat
                                                                                                                                              > anything. I have even tried hand feeding him worms. He never
                                                                                                                                              opens
                                                                                                                                              > his mouth. Today he started to float on his back and looks like
                                                                                                                                              he's
                                                                                                                                              > almost dead, although he moves when I pick him up. He used to
                                                                                                                                              stuff
                                                                                                                                              > everything he could find into his mouth. Is it possible he
                                                                                                                                              swallowed
                                                                                                                                              > a rock that is blocking his digestive system? If anyone has any
                                                                                                                                              > suggestions please send me an email soon. I doubt if he will last
                                                                                                                                              > much longer if I don't get him to eat.
                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1987 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
                                                                                                                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
                                                                                                                                              Can I just ask, how exactly do you keep frogs in your aquarium??

                                                                                                                                              I’ve never seen them for sale here...  aren’t they amphibious, e.g. breathe air, prefer to get out of the tank, that kind of thing??

                                                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                                                              Tim
                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 1988 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                              Subject: Posted Pond Pics
                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 Hi Everyone..... Tis the season so I just uploaded pictures of our pond in the photo section ( in album named Kelly).     We have been spending alot of time out there over the past week or so and have made alot of changes..... Once I get my Water Iris's split ( hopefully this week) and back in the pond I will start taking pictures of how it looks this year.....
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                PS.... In a couple of the pictures you can see a DEAD Juniper Pom -Pom tree... It has since been replaced with a nice new green one..... LOL
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Hugs and If anyone else has any pictures of their ponds I would LOVE to see them..
                                                                                                                                                Kelly
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 ....Dreamz35
                                                                                                                                                 ... Luvable464   
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Take a look at my beautiful kids, gardens and pond
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1989 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Need algae eater for a live planted tank.......
                                                                                                                                                A lot depends on the size of the tank. I just got a bristlenose pleco for my
                                                                                                                                                29g and she's done a spectacular job with the algae. I have 2 otos that do
                                                                                                                                                just as well in my 6g. Otos can be a bit more sensitive though.


                                                                                                                                                Theresa


                                                                                                                                                > >On Apr 27, 2004, at 6:57 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Hello all
                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                > > > Anyone with live plants out there I need your help. What would the
                                                                                                                                                > > > best algae eater be for a live planted tank. thank you Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1990 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                A suggestion:

                                                                                                                                                Is it really necessary to include all of a previous post, including the Yahoo header, when replying to it.  Why not just cut/paste the significant part(s) of the original and add your comment(s) ?????????????  I just scrolled thru a few posts with one sentence replies and the original/forwarded post was about 18" long.
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1991 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Fish Egg
                                                                                                                                                that actually depends on the kind of fish though, if they're cichlids,
                                                                                                                                                it's best to leave the eggs with the parents, who will fiercely protect
                                                                                                                                                them. once they hatch, you should leave the fry with the parents for
                                                                                                                                                about 2 weeks before removing them!
                                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                                On May 2, 2004, at 6:28 AM, Aaron R. Martin, cmt wrote:

                                                                                                                                                > What kinds of fish do you have that are laying eggs?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Fish will eat eggs, even their own if hungry enough. If you want to
                                                                                                                                                > give the eggs a chance to mature, it is best to seperate them from
                                                                                                                                                > the fish.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, <akaize@z...>
                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                > > I can see that my Swordtail is always cleaning the gravels by
                                                                                                                                                > eating the
                                                                                                                                                > > remaining, does it mean that it also eats the fish eggs?
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                >  
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                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                                for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                religion....
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1992 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                some people do forget to do that, but that's a good reminder!
                                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                                On May 2, 2004, at 12:35 PM, DB1RDMAN@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                > A suggestion:
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                > Is it really necessary to include all of a previous post, including
                                                                                                                                                > the Yahoo header, when replying to it.  Why not just cut/paste the
                                                                                                                                                > significant part(s) of the original and add your comment(s)
                                                                                                                                                > ?????????????  I just scrolled thru a few posts with one sentence
                                                                                                                                                > replies and the original/forwarded post was about 18" long.
                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                                for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                religion....
                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 1993 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                Subject: Plants and Brine Bath
                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                   Hi all,
                                                                                                                                                  I got some plants on Thursday and gave them a brine bath before adding them to the aquarium.  After I put them in the water I had to deal with a minor emergency (4 y/o and 10 month old had a mishap) and I didn't get back to the plants for almost an hour.  Everything looks fine but the swords...they are really limp and look like they are starting to wilt.  Did I kill them or is there a chance they will recover? :(
                                                                                                                                                  Thanks for any help
                                                                                                                                                  DeSmilie
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Peeing In The Snow
                                                                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                                  ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                    IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1994 From: Matt Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: drift wood and rocks
                                                                                                                                                  Thanks Aaron.  That helps a lot!  :-)
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Matt.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is ourself."
                                                                                                                                                  Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com
                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: drift wood and rocks

                                                                                                                                                  Hi Matt,

                                                                                                                                                  Driftwood is readily available at the LFS here. They have 2 kinds,
                                                                                                                                                  the Plain brown & the 2tone African Driftwood. I shop around looking
                                                                                                                                                  for really different pieces. My fish like to hide in cave like pieces
                                                                                                                                                  and swim thru pieces with arches and holes. There are different kinds
                                                                                                                                                  of rocks at the LFS here, from natural to plastic. The nice thing
                                                                                                                                                  about plastic is it can made into any shape & color. I have 2 pieces
                                                                                                                                                  that look like real driftwood underwater and have caves, tunnels and
                                                                                                                                                  holes for fish to play in. There is the real popular all natural pink
                                                                                                                                                  & white (sandstone?) rocks that are usally carved into some kind of
                                                                                                                                                  arch shape. Lava rock is popular also, it can be carved to have holes
                                                                                                                                                  and tunnels for fish to swim in. It may also be a benifcial gathering
                                                                                                                                                  point for bacteria because lava rock is very pourous. I try to avoid
                                                                                                                                                  anything with sharp or rough edges so the fish can't get injured as
                                                                                                                                                  easily.
                                                                                                                                                  I wouldn't put anything in the tank that I collected myself unless it
                                                                                                                                                  was sterilized somehow.
                                                                                                                                                  Have fun and be creative. I change the decorations around every month
                                                                                                                                                  to try different looks.
                                                                                                                                                  Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                  Aaron

                                                                                                                                                  ps - I couldn't find the website "www.peaceinlife.com" was not found.

                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Matt"
                                                                                                                                                  <mrwb@d...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Hi all!
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Just added some more artificial plants to the tank.  The fish like
                                                                                                                                                  the more secretive areas to play in.  Want to add some drift wood and
                                                                                                                                                  maybe some larger rocks.  What should and shouldn't I do?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Matt.

                                                                                                                                                  > "Sometimes, in life, the greatest stranger we will ever meet is
                                                                                                                                                  ourself."
                                                                                                                                                  > Please check out my new website www.peaceinlife.com


                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1995 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                   I think that one is all in personal preference....... I prefer to leave the message, as its easier for me to reply, and I also prefer to have the original message included as I read the replies so I am 100% sure of what is being discussed.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  I also feel that it saves alot of repeat questions being asked for those that miss the original and entire post.......
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  But that is just my personal preference and reasons!
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Kelly
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/02/04 12:39:27
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  A suggestion:

                                                                                                                                                  Is it really necessary to include all of a previous post, including the Yahoo header, when replying to it.  Why not just cut/paste the significant part(s) of the original and add your comment(s) ?????????????  I just scrolled thru a few posts with one sentence replies and the original/forwarded post was about 18" long.

                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Made by Daniel Ada
                                                                                                                                                  "Smiley Girl"
                                                                                                                                                  font is Disney Simple
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1996 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                  I agree...sometimes I miss or never receive original posts. It's nice to have some of the original info, but there definitely is a lot of 'stuff' towards the bottom that could be deleted.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Theresa
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                  From: ~~Kelly~~
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 5:39 PM
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 201

                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   I think that one is all in personal preference....... I prefer to leave the message, as its easier for me to reply, and I also prefer to have the original message included as I read the replies so I am 100% sure of what is being discussed.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  I also feel that it saves alot of repeat questions being asked for those that miss the original and entire post.......
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  But that is just my personal preference and reasons!
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Kelly
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1997 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: unedited email messages
                                                                                                                                                  H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                  A discussion on another YahooGroup covered this subject with the major reason for requesting pertinant (if you've remembered ALL the content on recent threads, this my addition) messages was that Yahoo limits web-space, and that those, to some, interminable emails with threads trailing behind the post take up too much webspace. One guy wrote that, since he saves all messages from the Group, they take up too much space, if they're not reduced. If your email client has the option to include the original message, it would be polite to uncheck the option, and if necessary, correct the 'subject-line'. It should'nt matter as to what's easier, but what's best in the rightest sense for the whole operation.
                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1998 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                  Kelly, I think his point was it IS possible to clip out stuff, like the
                                                                                                                                                  yahoo ads and any information that you are NOT replying to in that message.
                                                                                                                                                  Saves on bandwidth too.



                                                                                                                                                  Erin VanKouwenberg

                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------



                                                                                                                                                  From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/02/04 17:40:22

                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 201





                                                                                                                                                  I think that one is all in personal preference....... I prefer to leave the message, as its easier for me to reply, and I also prefer to have the original message included as I read the replies so I am 100% sure of what is being discussed.
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 1999 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                  H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                  If you want/need to conserve bandwidth and help someone who's saving all desired emails on their computer, what I've experimented with, not being a whiz at anything, is highlighting the address in the group email, while I have a 'new-mail' opened in Outlook-Express, and drag and drop it to the 'to' window in the new-mail. I felt the concerns of group moderators who have very large email transpirations, and must worry about web-space, among other things. If your memory is'nt up to par, (as mine is'nt) then referring to the original email is possible, but since I have'nt tried comparing to the original email in another window, or scrolling back and forth to it on the same page, I can't say which is an advantage, selfish/stubborn/lazy/unmotivated or otherwise. If everything is entered in the 'subject-line' in replies, and all emails are appropriately edited at the source, it would make for a very neat resource-base.
                                                                                                                                                  In another non-fish (ship-models) Yahoo Group, one client suggested the moderator/s edit 'each and every' email as if the moderators had nothing else to do but give-up sleep after their day-job. There's more going on in the real world than some people think.
                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Kelly, I think his point was it IS possible to clip out stuff, like the
                                                                                                                                                  > yahoo ads and any information that you are NOT replying to in that message.
                                                                                                                                                  > Saves on bandwidth too.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Erin VanKouwenberg
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Date: 05/02/04 17:40:22
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I think that one is all in personal preference....... I prefer to leave the
                                                                                                                                                  > message, as its easier for me to reply, and I also prefer to have the original
                                                                                                                                                  > message included as I read the replies so I am 100% sure of what is being
                                                                                                                                                  > discussed.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2000 From: hspellmen Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Mollies
                                                                                                                                                  Three questions, are mollies considered agressive? or just pigs. I
                                                                                                                                                  have 4 in a 55gal tank. They seem to be out eating the other 12
                                                                                                                                                  fish combined.

                                                                                                                                                  Two is, the little snails that look like pregnant fleas, good or
                                                                                                                                                  bad? if I chose to get rid of them, are turtles the best route?
                                                                                                                                                  Right now, they seem to be eating the plants.

                                                                                                                                                  Is there a ratio or recomendation as to how many cat fish to have in
                                                                                                                                                  a tank? what about algea eaters?

                                                                                                                                                  Phil
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2001 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Mollies
                                                                                                                                                  are the snails invading an indoor aquarium? turtles, while being really
                                                                                                                                                  cool, but a TREMENDOUS bio load on a tank, so unless they're in a pond,
                                                                                                                                                  the best route is loaches, or chichlids or even a crayfish....
                                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                                  On May 2, 2004, at 10:12 PM, hspellmen wrote:

                                                                                                                                                  > Three questions, are mollies considered agressive? or just pigs.  I
                                                                                                                                                  > have 4 in a 55gal tank.  They seem to be out eating the other 12
                                                                                                                                                  > fish combined.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Two is, the little snails that look like pregnant fleas, good or
                                                                                                                                                  > bad?  if I chose to get rid of them, are turtles the best route? 
                                                                                                                                                  > Right now, they seem to be eating the plants.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Is there a ratio or recomendation as to how many cat fish to have in
                                                                                                                                                  > a tank?  what about algea eaters? 
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Phil
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                  > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                                  > Service.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                                  for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                  religion....
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2002 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Mollies
                                                                                                                                                  Hi Phil,

                                                                                                                                                  My mollies , while always glad to eat, have never been "aggressive".
                                                                                                                                                  What kind are the other 12 fish? They may just be more timid in
                                                                                                                                                  nature.
                                                                                                                                                  If your a Clown Loach, Snails are Very Good, to eat that is. If you
                                                                                                                                                  are keeping Live Plants, they tend to have "stow aways" like snails
                                                                                                                                                  when purchased at the LFS. There has been recent discussion as how to
                                                                                                                                                  treat the new plants prior to putting them in the tank to avoid
                                                                                                                                                  snails and other 'pests'. The common way is to soak them in a brine
                                                                                                                                                  solution. Turtles are not the best route, different kinds of loaches
                                                                                                                                                  are a popular choice.
                                                                                                                                                  Are you getting the catfish for cleaning the substrate? I had 2
                                                                                                                                                  pairs of Corys. Some Cats can get really large, so just follow the
                                                                                                                                                  standard Fish Load Guidelines keeping in mind the potential final
                                                                                                                                                  sizes.
                                                                                                                                                  For Algae Eaters, here is some info from a previous post on that
                                                                                                                                                  topic:

                                                                                                                                                  Question: What would the best algae eater be for a live planted tank?

                                                                                                                                                  What size is your tank? That is the most important factor in deciding
                                                                                                                                                  what types of Algae Eating Aqautic Life will be best. Also, what kind
                                                                                                                                                  of fish & plants do you currently have and/or are planning on keeping?

                                                                                                                                                  Shrimp make a great addition and will easily fit into any size tank
                                                                                                                                                  and give nice variety. The "Amano" Shrimp (Caridinia japonica) are my
                                                                                                                                                  personal favorites. It is common to start a Planted Tank with as many
                                                                                                                                                  as 1 per gallon. They stay small and are busy workers. They do best
                                                                                                                                                  with some driftwood or bogwod in the tank and are excellent at
                                                                                                                                                  cleaning small plants like Java Moss. There are many other types of
                                                                                                                                                  Shrimp to choose from as well. From the Colorful Red Cherry to the
                                                                                                                                                  plain grass shrimp, they come in different sizes and some will only
                                                                                                                                                  eat certain types of Algae.

                                                                                                                                                  A qoute from a recent post to the SiliconValleyAquariumSociety yahoo
                                                                                                                                                  group "...1 shrimp/ gal is recommended for planted tanks. Amano
                                                                                                                                                  starts his new Nature Aquria at this level or higher to knock down
                                                                                                                                                  the algae at first when setting up a new tank. They will die off over
                                                                                                                                                  8 months to 2 years depending on how much they eat and if they have a
                                                                                                                                                  bit of driftwood or bog wood to restock the cellulose in their gut
                                                                                                                                                  flora."

                                                                                                                                                  More links about these guys:
                                                                                                                                                  http://www.azgardens.com/shrimpfactory.php
                                                                                                                                                  http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/shrimp.html
                                                                                                                                                  http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Shrimp/
                                                                                                                                                  http://users.skynet.be/caridina-japonica/


                                                                                                                                                  Snails also make a great addition to any planted tank and fit easily
                                                                                                                                                  into the smallest environment. Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS) and
                                                                                                                                                  Nerite Snaile are among the more popular Algae eating snails that
                                                                                                                                                  won't eat your plants. The added benifit of MTS is that they burrow
                                                                                                                                                  into the substrate and keep it areated like a team of tiny
                                                                                                                                                  rototillers.

                                                                                                                                                  There are Siamese Algae Eaters (SAEs) that are great. These are
                                                                                                                                                  schooling fish that grow fast so only recommended in a Larger Tank in
                                                                                                                                                  a group of 6 at a minimum. 1 per 10 gallons is a good start. Make
                                                                                                                                                  sure you get the real SAEs as there are more readily available False
                                                                                                                                                  SAEs (Flying Fox) out there. Please do
                                                                                                                                                  AVOID the Chinese Alge Eater (CAE) as they tend to get aggressive and
                                                                                                                                                  lazy when they get bigger, CAE have reputation for eating slime coat
                                                                                                                                                  off other fish for a quick snack.

                                                                                                                                                  a link to more info: http://www.fishpondinfo.com/sae.htm

                                                                                                                                                  Otocinclus come in many different species but typically al stay very
                                                                                                                                                  small. They are schooling fish and need to be kept in groups like the
                                                                                                                                                  SAEs. 1 per 5 gallons is a good start.

                                                                                                                                                  Plecostomous are popular Algae Eaters, available in many exotic
                                                                                                                                                  colors and patterns and some can sell for several hundred. They can
                                                                                                                                                  get up to 18 inches in size rather quickly, so not recommended for
                                                                                                                                                  anything under 55 gallons. Plecos tend to be Nocturnal.
                                                                                                                                                  There are the Clown Plecos that only get abot 3 inches in size and
                                                                                                                                                  are hard workers. Also some Dwarf Plecos are available but can be
                                                                                                                                                  pricey as they are less common. I have a Dwarf Bushynose Pleco that
                                                                                                                                                  seems to be always busy.

                                                                                                                                                  Mollies are common fish that are good for eating algae, but its not
                                                                                                                                                  their main diet. They come in a wide variety of colors and sizes.

                                                                                                                                                  Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                  Aaron




                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "hspellmen"
                                                                                                                                                  <pscherz@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Three questions, are mollies considered agressive? or just pigs. I
                                                                                                                                                  > have 4 in a 55gal tank. They seem to be out eating the other 12
                                                                                                                                                  > fish combined.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Two is, the little snails that look like pregnant fleas, good or
                                                                                                                                                  > bad? if I chose to get rid of them, are turtles the best route?
                                                                                                                                                  > Right now, they seem to be eating the plants.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Is there a ratio or recomendation as to how many cat fish to have
                                                                                                                                                  in
                                                                                                                                                  > a tank? what about algea eaters?
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Phil
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2003 From: Jonathan Short Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Mass Exodus!!
                                                                                                                                                  Yesterday all my fish and my crab were fine. I bought a bendy air
                                                                                                                                                  stone, popped it in, this morning there's a dead Danio, a Dead blue
                                                                                                                                                  Neon, a Mollie and my crab!
                                                                                                                                                  ARRGHH What could've happened? I've checked my equipment and
                                                                                                                                                  everything is running fine. I'm gonna buy another test kit today but
                                                                                                                                                  does anyone have any ideas at all???
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2004 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Mass Exodus!!
                                                                                                                                                  H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                  ..........have'nt been following the thread 'bout the problem below, but since I'm hurriedly focusing for work this morn 'thot I'd mention this. Years ago I put a stethoscope diaphragm to a tank with an airstone or more and I thought the sound/noise/din could be unbearable to fish. Was wondering if the noise of an airstone and pump could cause enough stress to debilitate and kill fish.
                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                  > Yesterday all my fish and my crab were fine. I bought a bendy air
                                                                                                                                                  > stone, popped it in, this morning there's a dead Danio, a Dead blue
                                                                                                                                                  > Neon, a Mollie and my crab!
                                                                                                                                                  > ARRGHH What could've happened? I've checked my equipment and
                                                                                                                                                  > everything is running fine. I'm gonna buy another test kit today but
                                                                                                                                                  > does anyone have any ideas at all???
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2005 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: question about live plants and nitrates
                                                                                                                                                  I'm continually having nitrate problems in my 15 US gallon tank. Just when I
                                                                                                                                                  get them under control, they go way up again. I'm doing weekly water changes
                                                                                                                                                  taking out 5 gallons and putting in five new gallons with aquarium salt and
                                                                                                                                                  start right and a little pH downer (my local tap water is high pH) ...



                                                                                                                                                  Now I've read on various freshwater aquarium resource sites that nitrates
                                                                                                                                                  are fertilizers. Would some live plants help control the nitrates? Every
                                                                                                                                                  thing else is optimum, I do water quality tests every week right before I do
                                                                                                                                                  my water change.



                                                                                                                                                  Also ... if I was to decide to get live plants (I'm thinking of getting some
                                                                                                                                                  plant bulbs from aquarium section at walmart, it's closer than driving a
                                                                                                                                                  half hour to petsmart to get established plants that might have stowaways) .
                                                                                                                                                  can I do live plants with an undergravel filter setup? The plates for the
                                                                                                                                                  filter are in two pieces because of the tank size. Essentially, it's the
                                                                                                                                                  length and width of a 10 gallon tank, but is taller.



                                                                                                                                                  I'm actually not nearly as overstocked anymore, finally took the excess
                                                                                                                                                  molly fry to a LFS. Now I've just got five that I'm giving to my mother
                                                                                                                                                  after her new tank cycles, in addition to my 12 mollies and platies, and one
                                                                                                                                                  plecostamus. (LOL I convinced her to start a tank.)



                                                                                                                                                  Any ideas on live plants in a tank with undergravel filter set up would be
                                                                                                                                                  great. I don't want to have to get a new filter completely.





                                                                                                                                                  Erin VanKouwenberg

                                                                                                                                                  Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zig zag?
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2006 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                   Hi Erin and all........  I understand the concern of some regarding email size etc, but I am in a total of 9 groups..... I own 4 (not fish related) and as far as what yahoo groups allow and bandwidth, this group isn't even in the running for being a problem....
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  If you check the files size on the emails that come through this group they average 4-15KB's... My other groups average size piece of mail is 300KB's...but MANY much larger such as 800-900KB's. Yahoo groups are all set to send emails that are 1000KB's and under.  Anything larger than 1000KB's will go back to sender.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  I checked the groups home page and it does state that "-> -> -> LARGE MAIL VOLUME ~ DAILY DIGEST RECOMMENDED <- <- <- "    I think it is safe to say that I average 20-25 emails per day in this group compared to OVER 100 in other groups and never have a problem at all....
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  If I missing the point... please let me know, but from what I know about both Yahoo Groups and emails, bandwidth doesn't even factor in for this group because of the low volume of mail as well as the very small sizes of the emails.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Did that makes sense?? Its early here...... LOL
                                                                                                                                                  Kelly
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/02/04 21:44:53
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                  Kelly, I think his point was it IS possible to clip out stuff, like the
                                                                                                                                                  yahoo ads and any information that you are NOT replying to in that message.
                                                                                                                                                  Saves on bandwidth too.



                                                                                                                                                  Erin VanKouwenberg

                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------



                                                                                                                                                  From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/02/04 17:40:22

                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 201





                                                                                                                                                  I think that one is all in personal preference....... I prefer to leave the message, as its easier for me to reply, and I also prefer to have the original message included as I read the replies so I am 100% sure of what is being discussed.

                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2007 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: question about live plants and nitrates
                                                                                                                                                  Hi Erin,

                                                                                                                                                  Live Plants will drop NitrAtes to Zero. UGF & Live Plants are bad
                                                                                                                                                  idea because of the roots. The roots will tangle up under the UGF and
                                                                                                                                                  make it less efficient as well as very difficult to move the plants.
                                                                                                                                                  You can get Live Plants that do not have a root sytem that needs to
                                                                                                                                                  planted in the substrate. Java Ferns, Java Moss and other Mosses can
                                                                                                                                                  be attached to driftwood or rocks. Hornwort is fast growing floating
                                                                                                                                                  plant and will out compete Algae for the extra Macro Nutrients. I've
                                                                                                                                                  had bulbs from WalMart, problem is there is no way to tell ahead of
                                                                                                                                                  time what kind of plant you will end up with IF the bulbs do grow
                                                                                                                                                  out. I prefer to know ahead of time what kind of plant it is and what
                                                                                                                                                  it will look like before I plant it. It is worth the effort of
                                                                                                                                                  cleaning the plants to rid of any pests. Different types of plants
                                                                                                                                                  require different types of setups. Starting out with a Low Light Tank
                                                                                                                                                  is the best way to go as its less expensive and is very low
                                                                                                                                                  maintenance. You could easily fit a 13watt Compact Flourescent Retro-
                                                                                                                                                  Fit kit into most hoods. I have an Eclipse System 12 w/ stock hood, I
                                                                                                                                                  replaced the 5300K 13w CF with a 6500K that is a better spectrum for
                                                                                                                                                  plants. Its really close to 1 watt per gallon, which is the minimum
                                                                                                                                                  recomendation, and everthing is growing great.

                                                                                                                                                  Some other plants that may do well in Low Light are:
                                                                                                                                                  ------- LOW LIGHT ------

                                                                                                                                                  Ludwigia mullertii
                                                                                                                                                  Ludwigia repens
                                                                                                                                                  Nymphaea Lotus zenkeri (Red Tiger Lotus)
                                                                                                                                                  Hygrophila siamensis (Giant Hygro)
                                                                                                                                                  Hygrophila difformis (Wisteria)
                                                                                                                                                  Hygrophila polysperma (Sunset Hygro)
                                                                                                                                                  Lobelia cardinalis "small form" (one adult plant plus baby
                                                                                                                                                  plants)
                                                                                                                                                  Ceratopteris thalictroides (Watersprite)
                                                                                                                                                  Java Fern (young plants attached to a small piece of driftwood)
                                                                                                                                                  Nymphoides aquatica (Banana Plant)
                                                                                                                                                  Hornwart
                                                                                                                                                  Lemna minor
                                                                                                                                                  Sagittaria subulata (Dwarf Sag)

                                                                                                                                                  Do you have any other Filter in the tank besides the UGF which only
                                                                                                                                                  helps w/ the biological filtration. If not that would explain the
                                                                                                                                                  high NitrAte levels. Mechanical and Chemical are 2 of the important
                                                                                                                                                  types of Filtration.

                                                                                                                                                  Hope that Helps,
                                                                                                                                                  Aaron

                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Erin
                                                                                                                                                  VanKouwenberg" <witchywmn42@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > I'm continually having nitrate problems in my 15 US gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                  Just when I
                                                                                                                                                  > get them under control, they go way up again. I'm doing weekly
                                                                                                                                                  water changes
                                                                                                                                                  > taking out 5 gallons and putting in five new gallons with aquarium
                                                                                                                                                  salt and
                                                                                                                                                  > start right and a little pH downer (my local tap water is high
                                                                                                                                                  pH) ...
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Now I've read on various freshwater aquarium resource sites that
                                                                                                                                                  nitrates
                                                                                                                                                  > are fertilizers. Would some live plants help control the nitrates?
                                                                                                                                                  Every
                                                                                                                                                  > thing else is optimum, I do water quality tests every week right
                                                                                                                                                  before I do
                                                                                                                                                  > my water change.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Also ... if I was to decide to get live plants (I'm thinking of
                                                                                                                                                  getting some
                                                                                                                                                  > plant bulbs from aquarium section at walmart, it's closer than
                                                                                                                                                  driving a
                                                                                                                                                  > half hour to petsmart to get established plants that might have
                                                                                                                                                  stowaways) .
                                                                                                                                                  > can I do live plants with an undergravel filter setup? The plates
                                                                                                                                                  for the
                                                                                                                                                  > filter are in two pieces because of the tank size. Essentially,
                                                                                                                                                  it's the
                                                                                                                                                  > length and width of a 10 gallon tank, but is taller.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > I'm actually not nearly as overstocked anymore, finally took the
                                                                                                                                                  excess
                                                                                                                                                  > molly fry to a LFS. Now I've just got five that I'm giving to my
                                                                                                                                                  mother
                                                                                                                                                  > after her new tank cycles, in addition to my 12 mollies and
                                                                                                                                                  platies, and one
                                                                                                                                                  > plecostamus. (LOL I convinced her to start a tank.)
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Any ideas on live plants in a tank with undergravel filter set up
                                                                                                                                                  would be
                                                                                                                                                  > great. I don't want to have to get a new filter completely.
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Erin VanKouwenberg
                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                  > Ever wonder what the speed of lightning would be if it didn't zig
                                                                                                                                                  zag?
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2008 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: question about live plants and nitrates
                                                                                                                                                  No, just have the UGF with the carbon filter cartridges. Wasn't aware when
                                                                                                                                                  getting the filter to set up the tank that I'd need more than one filter
                                                                                                                                                  type.



                                                                                                                                                  I'll look into java fern and some driftwood.



                                                                                                                                                  Erin



                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------



                                                                                                                                                  From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/03/04 12:27:05

                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: question about live plants and
                                                                                                                                                  nitrates



                                                                                                                                                  Hi Erin,



                                                                                                                                                  Live Plants will drop NitrAtes to Zero. UGF & Live Plants are bad idea
                                                                                                                                                  because of the roots. The roots will tangle up under the UGF and make it
                                                                                                                                                  less efficient as well as very difficult to move the plants. You can get
                                                                                                                                                  Live Plants that do not have a root sytem that needs to planted in the
                                                                                                                                                  substrate. Java Ferns, Java Moss and other Mosses can

                                                                                                                                                  be attached to driftwood or rocks.

                                                                                                                                                  *** snip ***

                                                                                                                                                  Do you have any other Filter in the tank besides the UGF which only helps w/
                                                                                                                                                  the biological filtration. If not that would explain the high NitrAte levels
                                                                                                                                                  Mechanical and Chemical are 2 of the important types of Filtration.
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2009 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 202
                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 5/3/04 7:40:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                  I agree...sometimes I miss or never receive original posts. It's nice to have some of the original info, but there definitely is a lot of 'stuff' towards the bottom that could be deleted.



                                                                                                                                                  Theresa


                                                                                                                                                  Exactly - the key word here is SOME.  Just enough so future readers know what the original main idea was.
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2010 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 202
                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 5/3/04 7:40:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                  I think that one is all in personal preference....... I prefer to leave the
                                                                                                                                                  message, as its easier for me to reply, and I also prefer to have the
                                                                                                                                                  original message included as I read the replies so I am 100% sure of what is
                                                                                                                                                  being discussed.


                                                                                                                                                  There is no REAL harm in leaving the original message.  But it would be easier to just forward the pertinent part(s) of the original and not the ENTIRE original plus several replies.  And, what purpose is served by forwarding the Yahoo header along with the reply ????????????? I guess everyone knows what a Yahoo header looks like.
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2011 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: question about live plants and nitrates
                                                                                                                                                  Mechanical may be the most important type of filtration with alot of
                                                                                                                                                  fish in a small tank. A well Planted tank will help absorb alot of
                                                                                                                                                  fish waste as plant food. Plus, a true planted tank does not need to
                                                                                                                                                  be vacummed the way a tank w/ an UGF does.

                                                                                                                                                  --- "Erin wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > No, just have the UGF with the carbon filter cartridges. Wasn't
                                                                                                                                                  aware when
                                                                                                                                                  > getting the filter to set up the tank that I'd need more than one
                                                                                                                                                  filter
                                                                                                                                                  > type.

                                                                                                                                                  > *** snip *** & double *** snip ****** snip ***
                                                                                                                                                  --- Aaron wrote:
                                                                                                                                                  > Do you have any other Filter in the tank besides the UGF which only
                                                                                                                                                  helps w/
                                                                                                                                                  > the biological filtration. If not that would explain the high
                                                                                                                                                  NitrAte levels
                                                                                                                                                  > Mechanical and Chemical are 2 of the important types of Filtration.
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2012 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
                                                                                                                                                  Since most swords are terrestrial anyhow, they usually lose the original
                                                                                                                                                  leaves. Give it a while and see what happens. Good luck.

                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2013 From: red-eye Date: 5/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                  Makes it hard for folks on Digest. If you want to check it out yourself just change your mail options. You can change them back right away



                                                                                                                                                  At 05:32 AM 5/3/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                   Hi Erin and all........  I understand the concern of some regarding email size etc, but I am in a total of 9 groups..... I own 4 (not fish related) and as far as what yahoo groups allow and bandwidth, this group isn't even in the running for being a problem....
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  If you check the files size on the emails that come through this group they average 4-15KB's... My other groups average size piece of mail is 300KB's...but MANY much larger such as 800-900KB's. Yahoo groups are all set to send emails that are 1000KB's and under.  Anything larger than 1000KB's will go back to sender.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  I checked the groups home page and it does state that "-> -> -> LARGE MAIL VOLUME ~ DAILY DIGEST RECOMMENDED <- <- <- "    I think it is safe to say that I average 20-25 emails per day in this group compared to OVER 100 in other groups and never have a problem at all....
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  If I missing the point... please let me know, but from what I know about both Yahoo Groups and emails, bandwidth doesn't even factor in for this group because of the low volume of mail as well as the very small sizes of the emails.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Did that makes sense?? Its early here...... LOL
                                                                                                                                                  Kelly
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/02/04 21:44:53
                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 201
                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                  Kelly, I think his point was it IS possible to clip out stuff, like the
                                                                                                                                                  yahoo ads and any information that you are NOT replying to in that message.
                                                                                                                                                  Saves on bandwidth too.



                                                                                                                                                  Erin VanKouwenberg

                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------



                                                                                                                                                  From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/02/04 17:40:22

                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 201





                                                                                                                                                  I think that one is all in personal preference....... I prefer to leave the message, as its easier for me to reply, and I also prefer to have the original message included as I read the replies so I am 100% sure of what is being discussed.

                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                                  ADVERTISEMENT
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                                                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                                                                                  Regards
                                                                                                                                                  red-eye

                                                                                                                                                  <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                  The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                                  <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                                  Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                  The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                  If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                  http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                  <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                  Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                  For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                  http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                  ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                  The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                                  Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                                  Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                                  ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2014 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 203
                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 5/4/04 8:50:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                  If I missing the point... please let me know, but from what I know about
                                                                                                                                                  both Yahoo Groups and emails, bandwidth doesn't even factor in for this
                                                                                                                                                  group because of the low volume of mail as well as the very small sizes of
                                                                                                                                                  the emails.

                                                                                                                                                  Did that makes sense?? Its early here...... LOL
                                                                                                                                                  Kelly


                                                                                                                                                  I believe you did miss the point - the point is not about bandwidth, etc., it is about having to scroll thru a bunch of extraneous information that is forwarded with someone's reply.  It should not be necessary to forward/repeat ALL of a previous post, including the Yahoo header, etc., in order to reply.  
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2015 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 203
                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 5/4/04 8:50:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                  Kelly, I think his point was it IS possible to clip out stuff, like the
                                                                                                                                                  yahoo ads and any information that you are NOT replying to in that message.
                                                                                                                                                  Saves on bandwidth too.



                                                                                                                                                  Erin VanKouwenberg



                                                                                                                                                  Egggggzackly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                  DB1RDMAN
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2016 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: how to post
                                                                                                                                                  hey guys, i think we all get the point. keep the replies on target and
                                                                                                                                                  only include what you need from the previous post to be clearly
                                                                                                                                                  understood by the group. now lets get back to fish talk!
                                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                                  On May 4, 2004, at 10:34 AM, DB1RDMAN@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                  http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                                  don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2017 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 5/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
                                                                                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat
                                                                                                                                                  They are pretty common at the LFS in my area.
                                                                                                                                                  I have three dwarf frogs and an Albino clawed frog.  They are completely aquatic but do go to the top for air.  They stay down about twenty minutes at a time.  I have seen the dwarf frogs resting on live plants that float at the top of the tank a few times but for the most part they stay underwater and appear to be happy.  I have had two of the dwarf frogs for over two years now.
                                                                                                                                                  Michelle in PDX



                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                  From: Tim Walker
                                                                                                                                                  Sent: May 2, 2004 4:35 AM
                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Albino African Claw Frog Won't Eat

                                                                                                                                                  Can I just ask, how exactly do you keep frogs in your aquarium??

                                                                                                                                                  I’ve never seen them for sale here...  aren’t they amphibious, e.g. breathe air, prefer to get out of the tank, that kind of thing??

                                                                                                                                                  Thanks
                                                                                                                                                  Tim
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2018 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 203
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Hi there,
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                   I COMPLETELY understand all points made. I have no time for the copy and paste game, delete half of the message game for the few that are on daily digest or to reply to all of the fan/hate mail that this subject has generated.......
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Never in my life have I seen so many people complaining that something takes to long, yet they find time to write me one email after another... often short novels and sending them to my PRIVATE address....
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Please find time get back to the subject of fish??
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  and PLEASE... NO MORE emails especially the threatening ones to my private email addy.  Enjoy the group.
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Kelly
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/04/04 10:35:46
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Digest Number 203
                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 5/4/04 8:50:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                  Kelly, I think his point was it IS possible to clip out stuff, like the
                                                                                                                                                  yahoo ads and any information that you are NOT replying to in that message.
                                                                                                                                                  Saves on bandwidth too.



                                                                                                                                                  Erin VanKouwenberg



                                                                                                                                                  Egggggzackly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                  DB1RDMAN

                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2019 From: akaize@zmsn.com Date: 5/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                    Here is my new tank 60 x 40 x 45 cm = 28 gl

                                                                                                                                                    Today I transferred the fish, water and gravels from the old small tank...




                                                                                                                                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                    > > From: "Dan & Theresa" <dtmergl@comcast.net>
                                                                                                                                                    > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                    > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 6:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                    > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Is this tank going to be a temporary home for these fish? I see a
                                                                                                                                                    couple
                                                                                                                                                    > > > problems with your stock:
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > -Swordtails will grow to at least 4". Definitely not enough room for
                                                                                                                                                    them.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > -Zebra danios are smaller but really like to good sized swimming area.
                                                                                                                                                    > > They
                                                                                                                                                    > > > also do better and are happier in schools.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > -Even if you've had these fish for a while and size doesn't seem to be
                                                                                                                                                    an
                                                                                                                                                    > > > issue, it really is. Living in such a small space will just stunt
                                                                                                                                                    their
                                                                                                                                                    > > > growth.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > A 2g tank isn't a good home for many fish at all. A single betta would
                                                                                                                                                    be
                                                                                                                                                    > > > fine, in which case a filter isn't really necessary. It could also be
                                                                                                                                                    used
                                                                                                                                                    > > > as a fry tank if you have M/F swordtails and are able to save fry
                                                                                                                                                    before
                                                                                                                                                    > > > they're eaten.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > I tend to overstock my tanks somewhat but I have good filtration,
                                                                                                                                                    > > aeration,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > and do very frequent water changes. I just feel badly about
                                                                                                                                                    overstocking
                                                                                                                                                    > > to
                                                                                                                                                    > > > the point where there potentially isn't enough room for the fish to
                                                                                                                                                    swim
                                                                                                                                                    > > > happily and their growth will be effected.
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                    > > > From: "Ahamed Kaize ses@zmsn.com" <akaize@zmsn.com>
                                                                                                                                                    > > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 2:15 AM
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbee
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Thank you for your details info.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I don't have a filter, but I am will buy it today. I may go for a
                                                                                                                                                    box or
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > power filter.
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I have in the tank :
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > 2 x Swordtails [1.5" long]
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > 2 x Zebra Danio
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > 1 x I don't know the name, but same size as Zebra Danio
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Today I found that the water in my tank has changed to smoky color,
                                                                                                                                                    what
                                                                                                                                                    > > > it
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > can be?
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2020 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: sad news
                                                                                                                                                    my favorite fish just died today. he wasn't acting sick at all, and in
                                                                                                                                                    fact, he'd been displaying tons of mating behavior for the past week or
                                                                                                                                                    so. he went in his favorite cave though, and i have a little batch of
                                                                                                                                                    his last fry that are growing nicely, so that's good news...
                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                    http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                                    for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                    religion....
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2021 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: sad news
                                                                                                                                                    Hi Amalthea,

                                                                                                                                                    That is Sad. I too lost a beautiful Fish today as well. He was the
                                                                                                                                                    Largest Lyre Tail Molly I've ever seen. Sparkling White with Silver
                                                                                                                                                    Highlights and a huge Sailfin. He didn't even get to mate as the
                                                                                                                                                    females are only about a month old and I was waiting a couple more
                                                                                                                                                    weeks to let him have some fun. All the other guys in the Bachelor
                                                                                                                                                    tank are ok, he just woke up dead this morning. Bummer :*(

                                                                                                                                                    Aaron

                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                    <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > my favorite fish just died today. he wasn't acting sick at all, and
                                                                                                                                                    in
                                                                                                                                                    > fact, he'd been displaying tons of mating behavior for the past
                                                                                                                                                    week or
                                                                                                                                                    > so. he went in his favorite cave though, and i have a little batch
                                                                                                                                                    of
                                                                                                                                                    > his last fry that are growing nicely, so that's good news...
                                                                                                                                                    > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                    > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                                    > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                    > religion....
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2022 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: sad news
                                                                                                                                                    aw, that sucks, aaron. bad day for the fishies all around....
                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                    On May 5, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Aaron R. Martin, cmt wrote:

                                                                                                                                                    > Hi Amalthea,
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > That is Sad. I too lost a beautiful Fish today as well. He was the
                                                                                                                                                    > Largest Lyre Tail Molly I've ever seen. Sparkling White with Silver
                                                                                                                                                    > Highlights and a huge Sailfin. He didn't even get to mate as the
                                                                                                                                                    > females are only about a month old and I was waiting a couple more
                                                                                                                                                    > weeks to let him have some fun. All the other guys in the Bachelor
                                                                                                                                                    > tank are ok, he just woke up dead this morning. Bummer  :*(
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                    > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                    > > my favorite fish just died today. he wasn't acting sick at all, and
                                                                                                                                                    > in
                                                                                                                                                    > > fact, he'd been displaying tons of mating behavior for the past
                                                                                                                                                    > week or
                                                                                                                                                    > > so. he went in his favorite cave though, and i have a little batch
                                                                                                                                                    > of
                                                                                                                                                    > > his last fry that are growing nicely, so that's good news...
                                                                                                                                                    > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                    > > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                                    > > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                    > > religion....
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                                                                                    for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                    religion....
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2023 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                                    Hi All,

                                                                                                                                                    Just a quick Reminder to please take a minute and Vote on your
                                                                                                                                                    Favorite Topics in the Poll. You can Select as many items as you like
                                                                                                                                                    and you can change your vote until the poll closes.

                                                                                                                                                    Thanks to those who have already responded. So far we have 166 votes.

                                                                                                                                                    Aaron


                                                                                                                                                    > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > What aspescts of the hobby intrest you
                                                                                                                                                    > the most?
                                                                                                                                                    > Is there a particular type of
                                                                                                                                                    > Aquatic Life that you like best?
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Please let us know your Favorite
                                                                                                                                                    > topics, if it is not in the list -
                                                                                                                                                    > please post it to the group so we can
                                                                                                                                                    > get a better understanding of the
                                                                                                                                                    > General Intrests of the Members.
                                                                                                                                                    > Thank you.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > o Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants
                                                                                                                                                    > o Freshwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                    > o Planted Tanks
                                                                                                                                                    > o Nature Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                    > o Brackish Tanks
                                                                                                                                                    > o Saltwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                    > o Reef Tanks
                                                                                                                                                    > o Ponds
                                                                                                                                                    > o Water Gardens
                                                                                                                                                    > o Goldfish & Koi
                                                                                                                                                    > o Tropical Fish
                                                                                                                                                    > o Shrimp
                                                                                                                                                    > o Eels
                                                                                                                                                    > o Crabs
                                                                                                                                                    > o Frogs
                                                                                                                                                    > o Snails
                                                                                                                                                    > o Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters
                                                                                                                                                    > o Amphibians
                                                                                                                                                    > o Live Plants
                                                                                                                                                    > o Turtles
                                                                                                                                                    > o Breeding
                                                                                                                                                    > o Aquascaping
                                                                                                                                                    > o Photography
                                                                                                                                                    > o Live Foods
                                                                                                                                                    > o other ~ please post
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > To vote, please visit the following web page:
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/surveys?
                                                                                                                                                    id=1405371
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
                                                                                                                                                    > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
                                                                                                                                                    > web site listed above.
                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2024 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                      The swords seem to be limping along okay but  I lost a few of them.  I  lost all the Hornwart and Anacharis (sp) Will have to just wait and see what happens I guess.  Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                      DeSmilie
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Peeing In The Snow
                                                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Date: 05/05/04 23:49:32
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Plants and Brine Bath
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Since most swords are terrestrial anyhow, they usually lose the original
                                                                                                                                                      leaves.  Give it a while and see what happens.  Good luck.

                                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"


                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                        IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2025 From: tbeatty Date: 5/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: should i use a undergravel filter
                                                                                                                                                      I used to have an undergraval and live plants...



                                                                                                                                                      =====





                                                                                                                                                      __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2026 From: arch1574 Date: 5/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Fishless Cycling
                                                                                                                                                      My daughter Erin talked me into trying an aquarium again and
                                                                                                                                                      recommended this site for info. I decided to try fishless cycling
                                                                                                                                                      and up until yesterday thought I was not going to be able to take
                                                                                                                                                      Erin's mollies off her hands, because my pH (which started out maxed
                                                                                                                                                      out above 8.4) was hovering at 7.8 for several days. Today my
                                                                                                                                                      ammonia levels dropped back down to 1.0 (had been 8.0+) and my pH
                                                                                                                                                      did a nose dive to 6.8. Suggestions for stabilizing it, or should I
                                                                                                                                                      wait until after the cycling is completed?
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2027 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
                                                                                                                                                      It sounds like the pH might be stable and the initial cycle almost
                                                                                                                                                      complete.

                                                                                                                                                      here are some links to sites w/ detailed info on Fishless Cycling:
                                                                                                                                                      http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycling.html
                                                                                                                                                      http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html
                                                                                                                                                      http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html

                                                                                                                                                      a bit about pH:
                                                                                                                                                      pH Level
                                                                                                                                                      The measure of the acidity or alkalinity of the water is called it's
                                                                                                                                                      pH. You will need to check the water's pH level when you first set up
                                                                                                                                                      your tank. With a testing kit, or take a small sample of water to the
                                                                                                                                                      LFS.
                                                                                                                                                      Most freshwater fish require a pH level in the neutral range, between
                                                                                                                                                      6.5 and 7.5 -- the range in most tap water. Depending upon which
                                                                                                                                                      kind of fish you have, the aquarium must replicate this neutrality or
                                                                                                                                                      alkalinity.
                                                                                                                                                      Once you know the water is within the accepted range, you should test
                                                                                                                                                      every two weeks to make sure the pH level is not fluctuating.
                                                                                                                                                      Whatever the necessary level, it is important that the pH remain
                                                                                                                                                      constant. The pH level can be affected by several factors including
                                                                                                                                                      overstocking your tank or overfeeding your fish.
                                                                                                                                                      If you need to adjust the pH of your water, buy a kit that includes
                                                                                                                                                      chemicals to increase the pH (make it more alkaline) by adding sodium
                                                                                                                                                      bicarbonate, or decrease it (make it more acidic) by adding
                                                                                                                                                      phosphoric acid. You will rarely need to adjust the pH, but there are
                                                                                                                                                      times it becomes necessary, such as if you are trying to encourage
                                                                                                                                                      breeding in a species of fish and want to create optimum conditions
                                                                                                                                                      that include a specific pH level.

                                                                                                                                                      Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                      Aaron

                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "arch1574"
                                                                                                                                                      <arch1574@b...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > My daughter Erin talked me into trying an aquarium again and
                                                                                                                                                      > recommended this site for info. I decided to try fishless cycling
                                                                                                                                                      > and up until yesterday thought I was not going to be able to take
                                                                                                                                                      > Erin's mollies off her hands, because my pH (which started out
                                                                                                                                                      maxed
                                                                                                                                                      > out above 8.4) was hovering at 7.8 for several days. Today my
                                                                                                                                                      > ammonia levels dropped back down to 1.0 (had been 8.0+) and my pH
                                                                                                                                                      > did a nose dive to 6.8.
                                                                                                                                                      Suggestions for stabilizing it, or should I
                                                                                                                                                      > wait until after the cycling is completed?
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2028 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
                                                                                                                                                      Man, nothing quite as messy as dead hornwart. I learned firsthand after
                                                                                                                                                      adding some Coppersafe. Took days to get it all out.

                                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2029 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: stock suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                      Hello,
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      I might be getting a used 29g hex, it's a good price and tank space is at a premium here so a hex would work for me. I realize being tall rather than long I have less space to work with than a rectangular tank.

                                                                                                                                                      My others are pretty much community tanks, my husband would like to do have something  'different' so I'd like to get ideas in order to convince him. His preference would be some sort of larger cichlid(s) but I don't know if that would work or not.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Any cichlid ideas?
                                                                                                                                                      Maybe a RTBS?
                                                                                                                                                      Any other ideas?
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      I appreciate any help and suggestions :)
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                      Theresa
                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2030 From: Cheryl Pappas Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Oscar Problems
                                                                                                                                                      Hello,

                                                                                                                                                      I recently put two oscars in a 30 gallon tank and I was wondering if
                                                                                                                                                      anyone has had problems with oscars because one is being aggressive
                                                                                                                                                      towards the other to the point that some of the submissive oscar's
                                                                                                                                                      scale are coming off and he is injured.

                                                                                                                                                      any suggestions?? i have a wall temporarily separating them but I
                                                                                                                                                      don't want to have to keep that in the tank forever.


                                                                                                                                                      thanks!

                                                                                                                                                      cher
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2031 From: frbstrd@aol.com Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
                                                                                                                                                      Well first off how big are they and secondly your going to need at least fifty gallons of water per fish and oscar as with most cichlids are territorial -Dave
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2032 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: best schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                          Hello all  I am looking for some schooling fish for my aquarium,  I want them to be small and cruise around in a group dooing all the traditional schooling behavior.  Initially I was going to do this with Cardinal Tetras, but they don't actually school all that well.
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                          I was thinking of rummy nose tetras or penguin tetras.  Any other suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                          Andreas
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2033 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: best schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                      you can also go in for neon tetras, harlequin
                                                                                                                                                      rasboras, rummy nose tetras are also good.

                                                                                                                                                      ..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                      --- Andreas1Group@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > Hello all I am looking for some schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                      > for my aquarium, I want
                                                                                                                                                      > them to be small and cruise around in a group dooing
                                                                                                                                                      > all the traditional
                                                                                                                                                      > schooling behavior. Initially I was going to do
                                                                                                                                                      > this with Cardinal Tetras, but
                                                                                                                                                      > they don't actually school all that well.
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > I was thinking of rummy nose tetras or penguin
                                                                                                                                                      > tetras. Any other
                                                                                                                                                      > suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                      > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                      >





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                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2034 From: Cheryl Pappas Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
                                                                                                                                                      they are about 4 inches right now. i am planning on getting a
                                                                                                                                                      bigger tank. any suggestions?


                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, frbstrd@a...
                                                                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                                                                      > Well first off how big are they and secondly your going to need at
                                                                                                                                                      least
                                                                                                                                                      > fifty gallons of water per fish and oscar as with most cichlids
                                                                                                                                                      are territorial
                                                                                                                                                      > -Dave
                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2035 From: amalthea x Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: best schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                            Hello all  I am looking for some schooling fish for my aquarium,  I want them to be small and cruise around in a group dooing all the traditional schooling behavior.  Initially I was going to do this with Cardinal Tetras, but they don't actually school all that well.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                            I was thinking of rummy nose tetras or penguin tetras.  Any other suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                            Andreas

                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2036 From: Michelle Cota Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: best schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                        if you like small fish, you should try Harlequin Rasboras. They are a cute
                                                                                                                                                        little fish, only get about 2", and stay tightly in schools (provided you
                                                                                                                                                        have at least ten). They only stray at night (like every schooling
                                                                                                                                                        fish)...but they regain their school after the lights are turned on. They
                                                                                                                                                        are also hardy little buggers!! The only thing is, the larger the aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                        the more I would get. I had twenty in a 55 gal, and these guys were my
                                                                                                                                                        mom's favorite because they never strayed far from each other. Also, serpae
                                                                                                                                                        (red minor) tetras stay in a tight school, but get larger than harlequins.


                                                                                                                                                        >From: Andreas1Group@...
                                                                                                                                                        >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                        >UniQuaria-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                        >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] best schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                        >Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 20:58:13 EDT
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Hello all I am looking for some schooling fish for my aquarium, I
                                                                                                                                                        >want
                                                                                                                                                        >them to be small and cruise around in a group dooing all the traditional
                                                                                                                                                        >schooling behavior. Initially I was going to do this with Cardinal Tetras,
                                                                                                                                                        >but
                                                                                                                                                        >they don't actually school all that well.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > I was thinking of rummy nose tetras or penguin tetras. Any other
                                                                                                                                                        >suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Andreas

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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2037 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: best schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                        Hello,
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        I've kept various tetras and personally don't think they're a good schooling fish in terms of what people want to watch. Generally fish school as a safety precaution-safety in numbers-and I think if they're happy in a home tank that doesn't happen.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        The only fish I've kept that swim around together, play, etc-what people think of as 'schooling'-are danios and cories.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Theresa
                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                            Hello all  I am looking for some schooling fish for my aquarium,  I want them to be small and cruise around in a group dooing all the traditional schooling behavior.  Initially I was going to do this with Cardinal Tetras, but they don't actually school all that well.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                            I was thinking of rummy nose tetras or penguin tetras.  Any other suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2038 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 207
                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/8/04 8:52:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: best schooling fish

                                                                                                                                                        i have some zebra danios and brillaint raspboras, and they look really fantastic in schools. they also add some flash to the tank...


                                                                                                                                                        I would also recommend Zebras.  They are really easy to breed if you don't have snails or other eggggg eaters in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2039 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: stock suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                        I don't think a large cichlid tank would work eith the limited surface
                                                                                                                                                        area. You'd need a very large bubblewand and the water movemeny might
                                                                                                                                                        be too much in a tall, narrow tank.

                                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2040 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
                                                                                                                                                        You won't be keeping the oscars in that tank for long, much less the
                                                                                                                                                        divider :-)

                                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2041 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: best schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                        black and red phantoms are 2 great schoolers, as are lemons and
                                                                                                                                                        pristellas.

                                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2042 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/7/2004 9:36:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, pappas8@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                        they are about 4 inches right now.  i am planning on getting a
                                                                                                                                                        bigger tank.  any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Don't get a hexagon tank, get a standard rectangular tank, it gives them more swimming area. 
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2043 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 5/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: best schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                        schooling fish..
                                                                                                                                                        I personally have had groups of neon tetras {approx. 3/4 of an inch long} that school together.. or swim together.. groups of about 15 to 30..
                                                                                                                                                        they will swim back & forth together..
                                                                                                                                                        now the 15 to 30 were in a much smaller tank..20 gallon..
                                                                                                                                                        the 30 to 45  were in a much larger tank ..75 gallon one.
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        I have found that fancy guppies will too.
                                                                                                                                                        {from personal experience} w/guppies..
                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                        zebra danios {smaller ones} will some but not like the neon tetras..
                                                                                                                                                        now this just from personal experience ,..
                                                                                                                                                        don't have any books or anything like that out..
                                                                                                                                                        &{ I am no specialist just an avid aquarium & pond keeper for some 20 years}
                                                                                                                                                        Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2044 From: Linda Miller Date: 5/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: hello
                                                                                                                                                        I am a recent member.. I have a small aquarium
                                                                                                                                                        & a small goldfish pond ..
                                                                                                                                                        want to learn about keeping the pond in good condition..
                                                                                                                                                        Linda M. /Scarlett
                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2045 From: jamie kathan Date: 5/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Oscar Problems Digest Number 207
                                                                                                                                                        That's the way I lost my first 2 Oscars. I placed them
                                                                                                                                                        both as "babies"...they were each about 2 inches a
                                                                                                                                                        piece, and they torn each other apart. Space issues...

                                                                                                                                                        I now know better!

                                                                                                                                                        They definitly require space to claim for their own. A
                                                                                                                                                        rock set up, or some type of "hang out" space at each
                                                                                                                                                        end of the tank might be a good trick to try also.
                                                                                                                                                        That way they can claim a rock for their own and they
                                                                                                                                                        will be less apt to want to fight eachother.

                                                                                                                                                        Good luck!
                                                                                                                                                        Muse

                                                                                                                                                        > Message: 2
                                                                                                                                                        > Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 00:12:17 -0000
                                                                                                                                                        > From: "Cheryl Pappas" <pappas8@...>
                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Oscar Problems
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > I recently put two oscars in a 30 gallon tank and I
                                                                                                                                                        > was wondering if
                                                                                                                                                        > anyone has had problems with oscars because one is
                                                                                                                                                        > being aggressive
                                                                                                                                                        > towards the other to the point that some of the
                                                                                                                                                        > submissive oscar's
                                                                                                                                                        > scale are coming off and he is injured.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        > any suggestions?? i have a wall temporarily
                                                                                                                                                        > separating them but I
                                                                                                                                                        > don't want to have to keep that in the tank forever.
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                        >





                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2046 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                          Very, very ugly...I was standing on a 3 foot stool hanging over the 55 gallon tank with a fish net in each hand trying to catch it all.  Had DH rolling on the floor laughing at me.lol  If the Gourami's didn't love the Hornwart so much I wouldn't bother to replace it but they really, really like it...so i guess of to the lfs again....
                                                                                                                                                          DeSmilie
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Peeing In The Snow
                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Date: 05/08/04 15:11:04
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Plants and Brine Bath
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Man, nothing quite as messy as dead hornwart.  I learned firsthand after
                                                                                                                                                          adding some Coppersafe.  Took days to get it all out.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"


                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                            IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2047 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Plants and Brine Bath
                                                                                                                                                          Well I was the DH and there wasn't much laughing as I was scooping,
                                                                                                                                                          cursing, scooping, cursing.... ARRRGGGGHHHH GOOD TIMES, HAHAHAHA. Got
                                                                                                                                                          some new plants over the last couple of days, some java ferns, red
                                                                                                                                                          melons frazeri(?, probably not right, I'll look again Tuesday) and a
                                                                                                                                                          stunning rangeri sword for the Princess on Mothers Day. Anyone else
                                                                                                                                                          here on Aquaria Plant Digest? I was trying to find the recipe for
                                                                                                                                                          homebrew plant food and the board's hard to navigate with WebTv.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2048 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: I mean Aquatic Plants.....
                                                                                                                                                          Hey, I am DAMAGED ya know.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2049 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 5/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: how many fish..........29g
                                                                                                                                                          I have a few fish tanks set up. In my 29 gallon I have 4 sailfin mollies (three females, one male), three glass fish (the fish they used to call "paintfish"), 6 cherry barbs and 2 albino Cory cats. I have 9 zebra danios and 2 algae eaters i would like to put in the tank, but is that over crowding? thanks
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2050 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 5/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: cleaning tank with snails
                                                                                                                                                          I desperately need to "vacuum" the gravel in my tank, but I have hundreds of baby snails I do not want to get rid of, how do I vacuum around them? should i just suck them up and take them out of the bucket afterwards? thanks
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2051 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cleaning tank with snails
                                                                                                                                                          H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                          For one thing, if you use a motorized vacuum, you will probably osterize some/most of them. Another thing. I've never heard of anyone who wants a hundred or more baby snails in their aquarium? They usually carry problems such as parasites in my experience, if they're pond-snails, and if you have plants, they can ruin them. If you have a hundred now, I wonder how long you've had them. With a hundred, I imagine you'll have quite a problem in the near future.
                                                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2052 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
                                                                                                                                                          The bow front tanks give you even more surface area. Just happens to be
                                                                                                                                                          my favorite tanks, too. I've easily got 70 inches of fish in a 46
                                                                                                                                                          gallon. But that includes a few plecos that are getting out of
                                                                                                                                                          control;-) As a matter of fact, I'd love to find a local person who
                                                                                                                                                          could house my 8 inch chocolate plec and maybe one of my 7 inch
                                                                                                                                                          gibbiceps. Remember, Buffalo area and only to someone with a 75 or
                                                                                                                                                          larger That's the only reason they are still in there.
                                                                                                                                                          Lot's-o-water-changes :-(
                                                                                                                                                          P.S. This was my first attempt to use the new feature that all you
                                                                                                                                                          computer users think nothing of, cut and copy. Just became avaiable to
                                                                                                                                                          WebTv, as far as I know.

                                                                                                                                                          Reply From: 
                                                                                                                                                          Bucks_Boogie@....
                                                                                                                                                          (Rob Dotzler)

                                                                                                                                                          pappas8@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                          they are about 4 inches right now.  i am planning on getting a
                                                                                                                                                          bigger tank.  any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Don't get a hexagon tank, get a
                                                                                                                                                          rectangular tank, it gives them more swimming area. 
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Mike

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2053 From: red-eye Date: 5/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cleaning tank with snails
                                                                                                                                                          Try dumping in a few leaves of lettuce. The snails will be attracted to it & then yiu can remove the lettuce with snails in tow



                                                                                                                                                          At 08:23 PM 5/9/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          I desperately need to "vacuum" the gravel in my tank, but I have hundreds of baby snails I do not want to get rid of, how do I vacuum around them? should i just suck them up and take them out of the bucket afterwards? thanks


                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                                                                                          Regards
                                                                                                                                                          red-eye

                                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                          The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                                          Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                          The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                          If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                          http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                          Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                          For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                          ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                          The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                                          Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                                          Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                                          ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2054 From: Cheryl Pappas Date: 5/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Oscar Problems
                                                                                                                                                          thanks everyone for the info.

                                                                                                                                                          take care!

                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                          bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > The bow front tanks give you even more surface area. Just happens
                                                                                                                                                          to be
                                                                                                                                                          > my favorite tanks, too. I've easily got 70 inches of fish in a 46
                                                                                                                                                          > gallon. But that includes a few plecos that are getting out of
                                                                                                                                                          > control;-) As a matter of fact, I'd love to find a local person
                                                                                                                                                          who
                                                                                                                                                          > could house my 8 inch chocolate plec and maybe one of my 7 inch
                                                                                                                                                          > gibbiceps. Remember, Buffalo area and only to someone with a 75 or
                                                                                                                                                          > larger That's the only reason they are still in there.
                                                                                                                                                          > Lot's-o-water-changes :-(
                                                                                                                                                          > P.S. This was my first attempt to use the new feature that all you
                                                                                                                                                          > computer users think nothing of, cut and copy. Just became
                                                                                                                                                          avaiable to
                                                                                                                                                          > WebTv, as far as I know.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Reply From: 
                                                                                                                                                          > Bucks_Boogie@w...
                                                                                                                                                          > (Rob Dotzler)
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > pappas8@y... writes:
                                                                                                                                                          > they are about 4 inches right now.  i am planning on getting a
                                                                                                                                                          > bigger tank.  any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                          > Don't get a hexagon tank, get a
                                                                                                                                                          > rectangular tank, it gives them more swimming area. 
                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2055 From: jeniferthatsme@aol.com Date: 5/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: cleaning tank with snails
                                                                                                                                                          It all started last year when I purchased several plants from a petstore. I do not mind the little things, and I know the hundred I have now will turn into hundreds more within time! I was thinking of getting gourimis(spelling) to take care of the snail problem!
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2056 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Live plant growth
                                                                                                                                                          Hi all

                                                                                                                                                          About a month ago I started keeping live plants. They are doing so
                                                                                                                                                          great! If the plant grows out of the water (too tall) should I clip
                                                                                                                                                          it below the water line? thanks Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2057 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Live plant growth
                                                                                                                                                          Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Live plant growth That is something that is completely up to you. Emersed leaves on many plants are completely different to submerse ones, so you might like to experiment and see what you like...

                                                                                                                                                          Tim


                                                                                                                                                          On 11/5/04 5:01 AM, "freedombell2002" <KPribble@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          Hi all

                                                                                                                                                          About a month ago I started keeping live plants. They are doing so
                                                                                                                                                          great! If the plant grows out of the water (too tall) should I clip
                                                                                                                                                          it below the water line? thanks Sherrie


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                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2058 From: mike mather Date: 5/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: best schooling fish
                                                                                                                                                          I really like Rummy Nose. They seem to really stick together well, and I have also read somewhere that they are " True Schoolers".    Mike

                                                                                                                                                          Andreas1Group@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                              Hello all  I am looking for some schooling fish for my aquarium,  I want them to be small and cruise around in a group dooing all the traditional schooling behavior.  Initially I was going to do this with Cardinal Tetras, but they don't actually school all that well.
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              I was thinking of rummy nose tetras or penguin tetras.  Any other suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              Andreas


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                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2059 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Live plant growth
                                                                                                                                                          Sherrie,

                                                                                                                                                          Which plant is it? There are some plants that when grown emerged can flower.
                                                                                                                                                          I myself have a couple of ludwigia that have broken the water surface. I am
                                                                                                                                                          keeping an eye as to how they will proceed.

                                                                                                                                                          Nim


                                                                                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@...]
                                                                                                                                                          >Sent: 10 May 2004 20:02
                                                                                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Live plant growth
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >Hi all
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >About a month ago I started keeping live plants. They are doing so
                                                                                                                                                          >great! If the plant grows out of the water (too tall) should I clip
                                                                                                                                                          >it below the water line? thanks Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2060 From: keithblackketter Date: 5/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: ick question
                                                                                                                                                          My wife moved a piece of her tank into mine and i now have ick, i am
                                                                                                                                                          treating it, but i have a gold mollie that will be giving birth very
                                                                                                                                                          soon, i have a heavily planted aquarium, if the other fish eat some
                                                                                                                                                          of the young from the infected mother, will this continue the ick
                                                                                                                                                          cycle??

                                                                                                                                                          thank you
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2061 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Live plant growth
                                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                                          When I bought it, the tag on it said "creeping charlie" But I think?
                                                                                                                                                          its also called Bacopa. Yes it does have "like" flower buds even
                                                                                                                                                          under the water line on it. Its doing so well, a matter of fact all
                                                                                                                                                          my plants are growing crazy :) Sherrie



                                                                                                                                                          > Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Which plant is it? There are some plants that when grown emerged
                                                                                                                                                          can flower.
                                                                                                                                                          > I myself have a couple of ludwigia that have broken the water
                                                                                                                                                          surface. I am
                                                                                                                                                          > keeping an eye as to how they will proceed.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Nim
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          > >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@l...]
                                                                                                                                                          > >Sent: 10 May 2004 20:02

                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > >Hi all
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > >About a month ago I started keeping live plants. They are doing so
                                                                                                                                                          > >great! If the plant grows out of the water (too tall) should I clip
                                                                                                                                                          > >it below the water line? thanks Sherrie

                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2062 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Live plant growth
                                                                                                                                                          That's great Sherrie, Bacopa does flower very well, but AFAIK, it cannot
                                                                                                                                                          flower submerged. It can only flower when it is grown emerged.. however, I
                                                                                                                                                          may be wrong in this.. :) I have never had success with bacopa though.

                                                                                                                                                          Nim


                                                                                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@...]
                                                                                                                                                          >Sent: 11 May 2004 15:53
                                                                                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Live plant growth
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >Nim
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >When I bought it, the tag on it said "creeping charlie" But I think?
                                                                                                                                                          >its also called Bacopa. Yes it does have "like" flower buds even
                                                                                                                                                          >under the water line on it. Its doing so well, a matter of fact all
                                                                                                                                                          >my plants are growing crazy :) Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >> Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                          >> Which plant is it? There are some plants that when grown emerged
                                                                                                                                                          >can flower.
                                                                                                                                                          >> I myself have a couple of ludwigia that have broken the water
                                                                                                                                                          >surface. I am
                                                                                                                                                          >> keeping an eye as to how they will proceed.
                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                          >> Nim
                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                          >> >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          >> >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@l...]
                                                                                                                                                          >> >Sent: 10 May 2004 20:02
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                          >> >Hi all
                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                          >> >About a month ago I started keeping live plants. They are doing so
                                                                                                                                                          >> >great! If the plant grows out of the water (too tall) should I clip
                                                                                                                                                          >> >it below the water line? thanks Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2063 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: beginner plants?
                                                                                                                                                          So I finally switched my 15 gallon aquarium from an undergravel filter to a
                                                                                                                                                          Top Fin Power Filter that hangs over the side of the tank. I'm looking into
                                                                                                                                                          growing some live plants in the tank, to help with my continued nitrate
                                                                                                                                                          problem. Any recommendations for plants that are easy to start and take care
                                                                                                                                                          of? Is it easy to get plants growing in a tank that is already established?
                                                                                                                                                          What sort of lighting do live plants need?



                                                                                                                                                          My tank has platys, fancy mollies, and one plecostamus. They all like to
                                                                                                                                                          nibble on algae and zucchini, so I'm aware the plants will more than likely
                                                                                                                                                          be nibbled on. I don't have problems with this, actually.



                                                                                                                                                          The tank has about 2 1/2 inches of gravel lining the bottom, and the filter
                                                                                                                                                          puts out a pretty decent current. I also use aquarium salt in my tank ... 1
                                                                                                                                                          tablespoon per 5 US gallons of water. Tank temperature at the moment is at
                                                                                                                                                          80 degrees F. Tank is proportioned differently than the standard 15 gallon .
                                                                                                                                                          20 inches length x 10 1/4 inches width x 18 1/2 inches height. So I've
                                                                                                                                                          got a little more height-room for plants to grow.



                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for any pointers!



                                                                                                                                                          Erin

                                                                                                                                                          Minds are like parachutes -- they only function when open.
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2064 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Fish for sale? (repost)
                                                                                                                                                          below is the Original message that did not go thru:

                                                                                                                                                          Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:37:04 -0000
                                                                                                                                                          From: "secretlaw" <secretlaw@...>
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Fish for sale?
                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                          Whoever got some peacocks for sale, please reply.

                                                                                                                                                          &

                                                                                                                                                          Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 01:41:31 -0000
                                                                                                                                                          From: "secretlaw" <secretlaw@...>
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: hi
                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com


                                                                                                                                                          i need to buy some peacocks, please let me know if u have some to
                                                                                                                                                          sell.
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2065 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Malayan Penguin Shrimp?
                                                                                                                                                          Any info on these? Getting some anyway, but I'd like to have some
                                                                                                                                                          knowledge o their care first. Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2066 From: gbmfuzzlove Date: 5/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                          Hey Guys,
                                                                                                                                                          I am pretty new to aquarium as a hobby and I have a problem with my
                                                                                                                                                          tank.
                                                                                                                                                          I have Gold Fish Orandas and Lionheads, eight med size, not very big
                                                                                                                                                          at all in a 55 gallon. I have to filters on the back, and
                                                                                                                                                          underground filter , and a submerged filter.

                                                                                                                                                          My water will not stay clear, it gets a cloudy green tint. If I
                                                                                                                                                          change all the water, clean the gravel, it stays clear for about 2
                                                                                                                                                          weeks then starts to get cloudy again.

                                                                                                                                                          What in the hell am I doing wrong. someone said I did not have any
                                                                                                                                                          filteration, that is why I have as many as I do. I have been told to
                                                                                                                                                          move it away from any windows, remove my underground filter, that it
                                                                                                                                                          was the goldfish themselves that cause the problem. I do not know
                                                                                                                                                          who to believe or what else to do to correct this problem.

                                                                                                                                                          Can anyone help me.

                                                                                                                                                          Wade
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2067 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: beginner plants?
                                                                                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                                                                                          I've had luck with amazon swords, anacharis, hornwort, moneywort, java fern,
                                                                                                                                                          java moss, red ludwiga, and wisteria.

                                                                                                                                                          My Eclipse 6 has always been planted, it has a flourite substrate. My 29g
                                                                                                                                                          originally had fake plants, then after a few months I decided to switch. I
                                                                                                                                                          added some flourite to the existing gravel and haven't had any problems. I
                                                                                                                                                          use the basic lighting that came with each tank, and I feed the plants
                                                                                                                                                          Flourish once a week.


                                                                                                                                                          Theresa



                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                          From: "Erin VanKouwenberg" <witchywmn42@...>


                                                                                                                                                          > Any recommendations for plants that are easy to start and take care
                                                                                                                                                          > of? Is it easy to get plants growing in a tank that is already
                                                                                                                                                          established?
                                                                                                                                                          > What sort of lighting do live plants need?
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2068 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: beginner plants?
                                                                                                                                                          Hi Erin,

                                                                                                                                                          you should be ok w/ 2 - 13w (=26w total) or 1 - 36 watt compact
                                                                                                                                                          flourescent @ 6500-6700K.

                                                                                                                                                          here is a list of some plants that are easy to start with in low
                                                                                                                                                          light:

                                                                                                                                                          Hornwart
                                                                                                                                                          Ludwigia mullertii
                                                                                                                                                          Ludwigia repens
                                                                                                                                                          Nymphaea Lotus zenkeri (Red Tiger Lotus)
                                                                                                                                                          Hygrophila siamensis (Giant Hygro)
                                                                                                                                                          Hygrophila difformis (Wisteria)
                                                                                                                                                          Hygrophila polysperma (Sunset Hygro)
                                                                                                                                                          Lobelia cardinalis "small form" (one adult plant plus baby
                                                                                                                                                          plants)
                                                                                                                                                          Ceratopteris thalictroides (Watersprite)
                                                                                                                                                          Java Fern (young plants attached to a small piece of driftwood)
                                                                                                                                                          Nymphoides aquatica (Banana Plant)
                                                                                                                                                          Lemna minor
                                                                                                                                                          Sagittaria subulata (Dwarf Sag)

                                                                                                                                                          see the files section,
                                                                                                                                                          Proper lighting is essential for setting up a good aquarium.doc

                                                                                                                                                          there is a more detalied article about lighting in the files section,
                                                                                                                                                          Let There Be Light!.wps
                                                                                                                                                          Aquarium Lighting Explained

                                                                                                                                                          Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                          Aaron

                                                                                                                                                          --- "Erin wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > So I finally switched my 15 gallon aquarium from an undergravel
                                                                                                                                                          filter to a
                                                                                                                                                          > Top Fin Power Filter that hangs over the side of the tank. I'm
                                                                                                                                                          looking into
                                                                                                                                                          > growing some live plants in the tank, to help with my continued
                                                                                                                                                          nitrate
                                                                                                                                                          > problem. Any recommendations for plants that are easy to start and
                                                                                                                                                          take care
                                                                                                                                                          > of? Is it easy to get plants growing in a tank that is already
                                                                                                                                                          established?
                                                                                                                                                          > What sort of lighting do live plants need?
                                                                                                                                                          > Tank is ... 18 1/2 inches height.
                                                                                                                                                          > So I've got a little more height-room for plants to grow.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks for any pointers!
                                                                                                                                                          > Erin
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2069 From: Erin VanKouwenberg Date: 5/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                          How often are you doing partial water changes? If you are removing ALL of
                                                                                                                                                          the water every two weeks, perhaps your tank is not cycling. Is your tank
                                                                                                                                                          near a window? It's possible that the green tint to the water is algae
                                                                                                                                                          growth. How long are you leaving your aquarium light on?



                                                                                                                                                          I don't know anything about goldfish, except that I have heard they put out
                                                                                                                                                          a lot more ammonia than other fish do.



                                                                                                                                                          Erin

                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------



                                                                                                                                                          From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                          Date: 05/12/04 01:07:27

                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Need Help with Goldfish problems



                                                                                                                                                          *snip*

                                                                                                                                                          My water will not stay clear, it gets a cloudy green tint. If I

                                                                                                                                                          change all the water, clean the gravel, it stays clear for about 2

                                                                                                                                                          weeks then starts to get cloudy again.

                                                                                                                                                          *snip*

                                                                                                                                                          What in the hell am I doing wrong. someone said I did not have any

                                                                                                                                                          filteration, that is why I have as many as I do. I have been told to

                                                                                                                                                          move it away from any windows, remove my underground filter, that it

                                                                                                                                                          was the goldfish themselves that cause the problem. I do not know

                                                                                                                                                          who to believe or what else to do to correct this problem.
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2070 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                          You don't need to be near a window to create cloudiness. Just cleaning the
                                                                                                                                                          entire tank every 2 weeks is enough for it. Rather, you should resort to 20%
                                                                                                                                                          water change every 2 weeks instead of cleaning the gravel. Let it be cloudy
                                                                                                                                                          for a few days. Cloudiness does not do any harm, it instead ensures that a
                                                                                                                                                          correct population of bacteria are developed in the tank to mature it.

                                                                                                                                                          However, your tank lost its cycle last time you cleaned the gravel but
                                                                                                                                                          hopefully, if you had used well water (without chlorine) to clean the tank,
                                                                                                                                                          you may be lucky enough to recycle the tank much faster..

                                                                                                                                                          Nim


                                                                                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                          >From: Erin VanKouwenberg [mailto:witchywmn42@...]
                                                                                                                                                          >Sent: 12 May 2004 13:16
                                                                                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Need Help with Goldfish
                                                                                                                                                          >problems
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >How often are you doing partial water changes? If you are removing ALL of
                                                                                                                                                          >the water every two weeks, perhaps your tank is not cycling. Is your tank
                                                                                                                                                          >near a window? It's possible that the green tint to the water is algae
                                                                                                                                                          >growth. How long are you leaving your aquarium light on?
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >I don't know anything about goldfish, except that I have heard they put out
                                                                                                                                                          >a lot more ammonia than other fish do.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >Erin
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >-------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >Date: 05/12/04 01:07:27
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >*snip*
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >My water will not stay clear, it gets a cloudy green tint. If I
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >change all the water, clean the gravel, it stays clear for about 2
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >weeks then starts to get cloudy again.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > *snip*
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >What in the hell am I doing wrong. someone said I did not have any
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >filteration, that is why I have as many as I do. I have been told to
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >move it away from any windows, remove my underground filter, that it
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >was the goldfish themselves that cause the problem. I do not know
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >who to believe or what else to do to correct this problem.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2071 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                          Hello Wade

                                                                                                                                                          What are your plans, with the tank in the furture? Are going to be
                                                                                                                                                          staying with the goldfish?

                                                                                                                                                          Sherrie

                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "gbmfuzzlove"
                                                                                                                                                          <ablkmascguy@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > Hey Guys,
                                                                                                                                                          > I am pretty new to aquarium as a hobby and I have a problem with my
                                                                                                                                                          > tank.
                                                                                                                                                          > I have Gold Fish Orandas and Lionheads, eight med size, not very
                                                                                                                                                          big
                                                                                                                                                          > at all in a 55 gallon. I have to filters on the back, and
                                                                                                                                                          > underground filter , and a submerged filter.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > My water will not stay clear, it gets a cloudy green tint. If I
                                                                                                                                                          > change all the water, clean the gravel, it stays clear for about 2
                                                                                                                                                          > weeks then starts to get cloudy again.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > What in the hell am I doing wrong. someone said I did not have any
                                                                                                                                                          > filteration, that is why I have as many as I do. I have been told
                                                                                                                                                          to
                                                                                                                                                          > move it away from any windows, remove my underground filter, that
                                                                                                                                                          it
                                                                                                                                                          > was the goldfish themselves that cause the problem. I do not know
                                                                                                                                                          > who to believe or what else to do to correct this problem.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Can anyone help me.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Wade
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2072 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                           Hi Wade,
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                 I had 4 fish in my pond last year that had to come out for winter... 2 black moor's, and 2 oranda's.  They were about 4-5" long each.... I brought them inside and put them in an extra 29 gallon tank that we had and could not for the life of me keep that tank clean.....
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                I think we drove the poor fish store owner crazy begging him to help us..... and it just turned out that gold fish of ANY kind are just dirty fish.. they seem to poop ALOT.. I did water changes every other day for almost a month and finally sold them back to the fish store as it was to frustrating having a skanky looking tank all the time....
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              So if there is an answer out there, I would be real interested also as to the secret of keeping larger goldfish breeds inside.
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Kelly
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Date: 05/12/04 01:06:55
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Hey Guys,
                                                                                                                                                          I am pretty new to aquarium as a hobby and I have a problem with my
                                                                                                                                                          tank.
                                                                                                                                                          I have Gold Fish Orandas and Lionheads, eight med size, not very big
                                                                                                                                                          at all in a 55 gallon. I have to filters on the back, and
                                                                                                                                                          underground filter , and a submerged filter.

                                                                                                                                                          My water will not stay clear, it gets a cloudy green tint. If I
                                                                                                                                                          change all the water, clean the gravel, it stays clear for about 2
                                                                                                                                                          weeks then starts to get cloudy again.

                                                                                                                                                          What in the hell am I doing wrong. someone said I did not have any
                                                                                                                                                          filteration, that is why I have as many as I do. I have been told to
                                                                                                                                                          move it away from any windows, remove my underground filter, that it
                                                                                                                                                          was the goldfish themselves that cause the problem. I do not know
                                                                                                                                                          who to believe or what else to do to correct this problem.

                                                                                                                                                          Can anyone help me.

                                                                                                                                                          Wade



                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2073 From: daniel_roachus Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: poor cory
                                                                                                                                                          Hi,

                                                                                                                                                          Sorry for the multiple post here but one of my triliniatus cories has
                                                                                                                                                          taken a turn for the worst..

                                                                                                                                                          He is in a 25 gallon tank - about a year old, which I added 3 well
                                                                                                                                                          quarantined platys to last night, taking the load to around 1.5
                                                                                                                                                          inches / gal, all had seemed healthy before the introductions. Other
                                                                                                                                                          fish are zebra danios, glowlights, 3 other cories and an sae

                                                                                                                                                          This morning all the other fishes were eating ok and showing no ill
                                                                                                                                                          signs.

                                                                                                                                                          The affected cory is swimming ok for about 40% of the time, but will
                                                                                                                                                          then start "floating" either vertically or tipping backwards , he
                                                                                                                                                          looks as if he's died - but will then "recover", he is not
                                                                                                                                                          doing "death spirals", Another sign I noticed was that his gills look
                                                                                                                                                          very gold, (others look mainly silver).

                                                                                                                                                          I put him in the quarentine tank - and added some anti bacteria stuff
                                                                                                                                                          (king british) to see if that helped

                                                                                                                                                          tonight I will do a water test on the main tank to see if anythings
                                                                                                                                                          badly wrong

                                                                                                                                                          about 20 minutes after putting him in the quarentine tank - he was
                                                                                                                                                          lying on his back on the bottom motionless - I thought he'd died, so
                                                                                                                                                          got the net in there - and he jumped off again - looking fine!

                                                                                                                                                          could it be swim bladder problems?
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2074 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                          I agree with Nim about everything he said, except the water changes.
                                                                                                                                                          It's 20% a week b/c of the increased biomass of goldfish.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2075 From: david thomas Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: how to make artificial aquarium plants
                                                                                                                                                          I seek info on how to make my own artificial aquarium plants. Can you
                                                                                                                                                          help?....D.

                                                                                                                                                          _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                          Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
                                                                                                                                                          Premium!
                                                                                                                                                          http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2076 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: does anyone recognize this fish?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                          Its for sale, it looks cool but I have no idea what it is or wants.
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Andreas
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2077 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                          It is as it says a “Knife Fish”.  Unusual to see and albino, they are more commonly found in black.  They are a shy nocturnal fish that you will rarely see.  There is a trick though.  If you put a piece on clear tubing in your tank they will go in it.  They seek out caves for shelter and do not seem to mind the clear ones.  They will go in and stay there hovering all day.  But at least you can see them.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                          Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                          elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                          AOL/AIM = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          MSN = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo = ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                          Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                          N.E.T.T. (North East Traveling Team):
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N_E_T_T
                                                                                                                                                          Puppy & Purr’s Rescue
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/puppyspurrsrescue.html
                                                                                                                                                          East Coast Pet Rescue:
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EastCoast_Pet_Rescue


                                                                                                                                                          From: Andreas1Group@... [mailto:Andreas1Group@...]
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                          To: UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com; FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                          Its for sale, it looks cool but I have no idea what it is or wants.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Andreas



                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2078 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 5/13/2004 4:30:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, elyse@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                          It is as it says a “Knife Fish”.  Unusual to see and albino, they are more commonly found in black.  They are a shy nocturnal fish that you will rarely see.  There is a trick though.  If you put a piece on clear tubing in your tank they will go in it.  They seek out caves for shelter and do not seem to mind the clear ones.  They will go in and stay there hovering all day.  But at least you can see them.
                                                                                                                                                          Yes I am aware its a knife fish :)  but there are many kinds of knife fish,   calling it a knife fish is almost like calling it a tetra :)  I need more detail if I am to consider bidding on it .
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2079 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: can anyone get South american leaf fish?
                                                                                                                                                          specifically
                                                                                                                                                          Monocirrhus polyacanthus
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              I am looking for some, found 3 on Aqua bid but was out bid :( 
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              does anyone out there breed these?
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2080 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                          Hehe okay …  you should have been more specific.  You never know at what level to answer these questions …  I will try to find out some more about this specific creature for you.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                          Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                          elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                          AOL/AIM = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          MSN = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo = ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                          Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                          N.E.T.T. (North East Traveling Team):
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N_E_T_T
                                                                                                                                                          Puppy & Purr’s Rescue
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/puppyspurrsrescue.html
                                                                                                                                                          East Coast Pet Rescue:
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EastCoast_Pet_Rescue


                                                                                                                                                          From: Andreas1Group@... [mailto:Andreas1Group@...]
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 5/13/2004 4:30:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, elyse@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                          It is as it says a “Knife Fish”.  Unusual to see and albino, they are more commonly found in black.  They are a shy nocturnal fish that you will rarely see.  There is a trick though.  If you put a piece on clear tubing in your tank they will go in it.  They seek out caves for shelter and do not seem to mind the clear ones.  They will go in and stay there hovering all day.  But at least you can see them.

                                                                                                                                                          Yes I am aware its a knife fish :)  but there are many kinds of knife fish,   calling it a knife fish is almost like calling it a tetra :)  I need more detail if I am to consider bidding on it .

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                              Andreas



                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2081 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: can anyone get South american leaf fish?

                                                                                                                                                          No sorry.  Saw some in my LFS recently.  Kewl looking little suckers!

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                          Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                          elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                          AOL/AIM = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          MSN = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo = ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                          Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                          N.E.T.T. (North East Traveling Team):
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N_E_T_T
                                                                                                                                                          Puppy & Purr’s Rescue
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/puppyspurrsrescue.html
                                                                                                                                                          East Coast Pet Rescue:
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EastCoast_Pet_Rescue


                                                                                                                                                          From: Andreas1Group@... [mailto:Andreas1Group@...]
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                          To: UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com; FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] can anyone get South american leaf fish?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          specifically

                                                                                                                                                          Monocirrhus polyacanthus

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                              I am looking for some, found 3 on Aqua bid but was out bid :( 

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                              does anyone out there breed these?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                              Andreas



                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2082 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                          OK …  I did a bit of checking and your statement that saying “Knife fish” is like saying tetra is not really accurate.  I can find only 4 varieties of knife fish.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Black Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                          Clown Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                          Ablino Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                          Royal Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Other than color differences, they are very much the same in shape, size and requirements.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Also, the auction did not state size, unless I missed that.  And I have already found several vendors who carry all sizes of Albino’s for less that the auction is asking.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Ahh, the internet, such a wonderful resource.

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                          Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                          elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                          AOL/AIM = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          MSN = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo = ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                          Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                          N.E.T.T. (North East Traveling Team):
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N_E_T_T
                                                                                                                                                          Puppy & Purr’s Rescue
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/puppyspurrsrescue.html
                                                                                                                                                          East Coast Pet Rescue:
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EastCoast_Pet_Rescue


                                                                                                                                                          From: Andreas1Group@... [mailto:Andreas1Group@...]
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 5/13/2004 4:30:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, elyse@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                          It is as it says a “Knife Fish”.  Unusual to see and albino, they are more commonly found in black.  They are a shy nocturnal fish that you will rarely see.  There is a trick though.  If you put a piece on clear tubing in your tank they will go in it.  They seek out caves for shelter and do not seem to mind the clear ones.  They will go in and stay there hovering all day.  But at least you can see them.

                                                                                                                                                          Yes I am aware its a knife fish :)  but there are many kinds of knife fish,   calling it a knife fish is almost like calling it a tetra :)  I need more detail if I am to consider bidding on it .

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                              Andreas



                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2083 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: South american leaf fish?
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                          specifically
                                                                                                                                                          Monocirrhus polyacanthus
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              I am looking for some, found 3 on Aqua bid but was out bid :( 
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              does anyone out there breed these?
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2084 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                          I think it was a figure of speech. There are atleast over 100 species of knife fish.. probably many more. The one in the picture looks like to be of the familily Rhamphichthidae. Beyond that it is difficult to suggest as this family itself has over 15 species. Best to ask the seller.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          The 4 knife fish you mention are the more common ones available. The black knife I think is the black ghost knife, clown knife and royal knife are same genus I think. Albino is not a species but a strain. Any fish could be albino it is a  genetic disorder I think.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          You forgot the vast genera of African knives etc as well that are more common then the ones mentioned. Ofcourse the number of tetra species is far more then knives, maybe, its like saying: its an Albino carp, or an Albino Danio, or Albino Rasbora, Albino loach… etc.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                                          From: Elyse [mailto:elyse@...]
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: 13 May 2004 22:13
                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          OK …  I did a bit of checking and your statement that saying “Knife fish” is like saying tetra is not really accurate.  I can find only 4 varieties of knife fish.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Black Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                          Clown Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                          Ablino Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                          Royal Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Other than color differences, they are very much the same in shape, size and requirements.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Also, the auction did not state size, unless I missed that.  And I have already found several vendors who carry all sizes of Albino’s for less that the auction is asking.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Ahh, the internet, such a wonderful resource.

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                          Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                          elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                          AOL/AIM = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          MSN = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo = ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                          Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                          N.E.T.T. (North East Traveling Team):
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N_E_T_T
                                                                                                                                                          Puppy & Purr’s Rescue
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/puppyspurrsrescue.html
                                                                                                                                                          East Coast Pet Rescue:
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EastCoast_Pet_Rescue


                                                                                                                                                          From: Andreas1Group@... [mailto:Andreas1Group@...]
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 5/13/2004 4:30:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, elyse@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                          It is as it says a “Knife Fish”.  Unusual to see and albino, they are more commonly found in black.  They are a shy nocturnal fish that you will rarely see.  There is a trick though.  If you put a piece on clear tubing in your tank they will go in it.  They seek out caves for shelter and do not seem to mind the clear ones.  They will go in and stay there hovering all day.  But at least you can see them.

                                                                                                                                                          Yes I am aware its a knife fish :)  but there are many kinds of knife fish,   calling it a knife fish is almost like calling it a tetra :)  I need more detail if I am to consider bidding on it .

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                              Andreas

                                                                                                                                                           



                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2085 From: magnolia_busse Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Moonlight Gourami's hating each other.
                                                                                                                                                          I have had 2 moonlights, both female (I think) for a few months now.
                                                                                                                                                          Just recently, the larger of the two has become very aggressive
                                                                                                                                                          towards the smaller one. They used to play and chase each other, but
                                                                                                                                                          now the smaller moonlight hides under plants and rarely comes out
                                                                                                                                                          unless pushed out by the larger moonlight.
                                                                                                                                                          The smaller one doesn't seem to be weak, or sick, just.. tormented
                                                                                                                                                          and scared. Should I separate them? Why are they doing this now
                                                                                                                                                          after months of getting along?
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2086 From: Elyse Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                          Gotcha!  Well thanks for the education.  I can tell u know more about this type of fish than I.  When I need to know more I do internet research.  Perhaps that is the way you should go.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Wish I could have been more help.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                          Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                          elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                          AOL/AIM = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          MSN = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo = ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                          Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                          N.E.T.T. (North East Traveling Team):
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N_E_T_T
                                                                                                                                                          Puppy & Purr’s Rescue
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/puppyspurrsrescue.html
                                                                                                                                                          East Coast Pet Rescue:
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EastCoast_Pet_Rescue


                                                                                                                                                          From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          I think it was a figure of speech. There are atleast over 100 species of knife fish.. probably many more. The one in the picture looks like to be of the familily Rhamphichthidae. Beyond that it is difficult to suggest as this family itself has over 15 species. Best to ask the seller.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          The 4 knife fish you mention are the more common ones available. The black knife I think is the black ghost knife, clown knife and royal knife are same genus I think. Albino is not a species but a strain. Any fish could be albino it is a  genetic disorder I think.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          You forgot the vast genera of African knives etc as well that are more common then the ones mentioned. Ofcourse the number of tetra species is far more then knives, maybe, its like saying: its an Albino carp, or an Albino Danio, or Albino Rasbora, Albino loach… etc.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                                          From: Elyse [mailto: elyse@... ]
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: 13 May 2004 22:13
                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          OK …  I did a bit of checking and your statement that saying “Knife fish” is like saying tetra is not really accurate.  I can find only 4 varieties of knife fish.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Black Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                          Clown Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                          Ablino Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                          Royal Knife Fish

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Other than color differences, they are very much the same in shape, size and requirements.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Also, the auction did not state size, unless I missed that.  And I have already found several vendors who carry all sizes of Albino’s for less that the auction is asking.

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          Ahh, the internet, such a wonderful resource.

                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                          Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                          elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                          AOL/AIM = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          MSN = ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo = ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                          Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                          N.E.T.T. (North East Traveling Team):
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N_E_T_T
                                                                                                                                                          Puppy & Purr’s Rescue
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/puppyspurrsrescue.html
                                                                                                                                                          East Coast Pet Rescue:
                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EastCoast_Pet_Rescue


                                                                                                                                                          From: Andreas1Group@... [mailto:Andreas1Group@...]
                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] does anyone recognize this fish?

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 5/13/2004 4:30:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, elyse@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                          It is as it says a “Knife Fish”.  Unusual to see and albino, they are more commonly found in black.  They are a shy nocturnal fish that you will rarely see.  There is a trick though.  If you put a piece on clear tubing in your tank they will go in it.  They seek out caves for shelter and do not seem to mind the clear ones.  They will go in and stay there hovering all day.  But at least you can see them.

                                                                                                                                                          Yes I am aware its a knife fish :)  but there are many kinds of knife fish,   calling it a knife fish is almost like calling it a tetra :)  I need more detail if I am to consider bidding on it .

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                              Andreas

                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                           



                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2087 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Moonlight Gourami's hating each other.
                                                                                                                                                          had the difference in size increased? that could be it, the big one
                                                                                                                                                          just realized that he can really bully the other successfully. how
                                                                                                                                                          large is the tank?
                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          On May 13, 2004, at 6:51 PM, magnolia_busse wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > I have had 2 moonlights, both female (I think) for a few months now.
                                                                                                                                                          > Just recently, the larger of the two has become very aggressive
                                                                                                                                                          > towards the smaller one. They used to play and chase each other, but
                                                                                                                                                          > now the smaller moonlight hides under plants and rarely comes out
                                                                                                                                                          > unless pushed out by the larger moonlight.
                                                                                                                                                          > The smaller one doesn't seem to be weak, or sick, just.. tormented
                                                                                                                                                          > and scared. Should I separate them? Why are they doing this now
                                                                                                                                                          > after months of getting along?
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > ADVERTISEMENT
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                                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                          > Service.
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                                                                                                                                                          http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                          Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                          Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2088 From: Audrey Archer Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 206
                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for the advice; well, the good news is the cycle is almost complete - my Nitrite levels are dropping back down into measurable levels. I believe this is due to adding a heater and a bubbler, to increase the temp for the bacteria and increase the oxygen they need. Also, since my pH levels were lower, I was able to use a more accurate test, and my pH is now stable at 7.0.

                                                                                                                                                          Now I have another question... I put in a background, which I *tried* to trim to fit (got a bit too small in spots), but it did not come with any instructions, and my daughter Erin said "you put it on the *inside*?!" in a way that made me wonder if I did what I was supposed to do. Well, it sure didn't have any way to keep it on the outside... and except for a few spots, it is mostly held in place by the gravel on the bottom, the filter and heater on the top. But it does tend to come loose from the back a bit. Does anyone know how it was supposed to be put in/on the aquarium? Couldn't have been supposed to be glued, cause otherwise the "reversible" aspect of it would be pretty useless.

                                                                                                                                                          Audrey
                                                                                                                                                          > Message: 3
                                                                                                                                                          > Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 01:12:54 -0000
                                                                                                                                                          > From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...>
                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > It sounds like the pH might be stable and the initial cycle almost
                                                                                                                                                          > complete.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > here are some links to sites w/ detailed info on Fishless Cycling:
                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycling.html
                                                                                                                                                          > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html
                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > a bit about pH:
                                                                                                                                                          > pH Level
                                                                                                                                                          > The measure of the acidity or alkalinity of the water is called it's
                                                                                                                                                          > pH. You will need to check the water's pH level when you first set up
                                                                                                                                                          > your tank. With a testing kit, or take a small sample of water to the
                                                                                                                                                          > LFS.
                                                                                                                                                          > Most freshwater fish require a pH level in the neutral range, between
                                                                                                                                                          > 6.5 and 7.5 -- the range in most tap water. Depending upon which
                                                                                                                                                          > kind of fish you have, the aquarium must replicate this neutrality or
                                                                                                                                                          > alkalinity.
                                                                                                                                                          > Once you know the water is within the accepted range, you should test
                                                                                                                                                          > every two weeks to make sure the pH level is not fluctuating.
                                                                                                                                                          > Whatever the necessary level, it is important that the pH remain
                                                                                                                                                          > constant. The pH level can be affected by several factors including
                                                                                                                                                          > overstocking your tank or overfeeding your fish.
                                                                                                                                                          > If you need to adjust the pH of your water, buy a kit that includes
                                                                                                                                                          > chemicals to increase the pH (make it more alkaline) by adding sodium
                                                                                                                                                          > bicarbonate, or decrease it (make it more acidic) by adding
                                                                                                                                                          > phosphoric acid. You will rarely need to adjust the pH, but there are
                                                                                                                                                          > times it becomes necessary, such as if you are trying to encourage
                                                                                                                                                          > breeding in a species of fish and want to create optimum conditions
                                                                                                                                                          > that include a specific pH level.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                          > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "arch1574"
                                                                                                                                                          > <arch1574@b...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > > My daughter Erin talked me into trying an aquarium again and
                                                                                                                                                          > > recommended this site for info. I decided to try fishless cycling
                                                                                                                                                          > > and up until yesterday thought I was not going to be able to take
                                                                                                                                                          > > Erin's mollies off her hands, because my pH (which started out
                                                                                                                                                          > maxed
                                                                                                                                                          > > out above 8.4) was hovering at 7.8 for several days. Today my
                                                                                                                                                          > > ammonia levels dropped back down to 1.0 (had been 8.0+) and my pH
                                                                                                                                                          > > did a nose dive to 6.8.
                                                                                                                                                          > Suggestions for stabilizing it, or should I
                                                                                                                                                          > > wait until after the cycling is completed?
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2089 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 206
                                                                                                                                                          no no! take it out you put it on the back and tape it on!!!!
                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          On May 13, 2004, at 8:01 PM, Audrey Archer wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks for the advice; well, the good news is the cycle is almost
                                                                                                                                                          > complete - my Nitrite levels are dropping back down into measurable
                                                                                                                                                          > levels. I believe this is due to adding a heater and a bubbler, to
                                                                                                                                                          > increase the temp for the bacteria and increase the oxygen they need.
                                                                                                                                                          > Also, since my pH levels were lower, I was able to use a more accurate
                                                                                                                                                          > test, and my pH is now stable at 7.0.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Now I have another question... I put in a background, which I *tried*
                                                                                                                                                          > to trim to fit (got a bit too small in spots), but it did not come
                                                                                                                                                          > with any instructions, and my daughter Erin said "you put it on the
                                                                                                                                                          > *inside*?!" in a way that made me wonder if I did what I was supposed
                                                                                                                                                          > to do. Well, it sure didn't have any way to keep it on the outside...
                                                                                                                                                          > and except for a few spots, it is mostly held in place by the gravel
                                                                                                                                                          > on the bottom, the filter and heater on the top. But it does tend to
                                                                                                                                                          > come loose from the back a bit. Does anyone know how it was supposed
                                                                                                                                                          > to be put in/on the aquarium? Couldn't have been supposed to be glued,
                                                                                                                                                          > cause otherwise the "reversible" aspect of it would be pretty useless.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Audrey
                                                                                                                                                          > > Message: 3
                                                                                                                                                          > >    Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 01:12:54 -0000
                                                                                                                                                          > >    From: "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...>
                                                                                                                                                          > > Subject: Re: Fishless Cycling
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > It sounds like the pH might be stable and the initial cycle almost
                                                                                                                                                          > > complete.
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > here are some links to sites w/ detailed info on Fishless Cycling:
                                                                                                                                                          > > http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycling.html
                                                                                                                                                          > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html
                                                                                                                                                          > > http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > a bit about pH:
                                                                                                                                                          > > pH Level
                                                                                                                                                          > > The measure of the acidity or alkalinity of the water is called it's
                                                                                                                                                          > > pH. You will need to check the water's pH level when you first set
                                                                                                                                                          > up
                                                                                                                                                          > > your tank. With a testing kit, or take a small sample of water to
                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                          > > LFS.
                                                                                                                                                          > > Most freshwater fish require a pH level in the neutral range,
                                                                                                                                                          > between
                                                                                                                                                          > > 6.5 and 7.5 -- the range in most tap water.  Depending upon which
                                                                                                                                                          > > kind of fish you have, the aquarium must replicate this neutrality
                                                                                                                                                          > or
                                                                                                                                                          > > alkalinity.
                                                                                                                                                          > > Once you know the water is within the accepted range, you should
                                                                                                                                                          > test
                                                                                                                                                          > > every two weeks to make sure the pH level is not fluctuating.
                                                                                                                                                          > > Whatever the necessary level, it is important that the pH remain
                                                                                                                                                          > > constant. The pH level can be affected by several factors including
                                                                                                                                                          > > overstocking your tank or overfeeding your fish.
                                                                                                                                                          > > If you need to adjust the pH of your water, buy a kit that includes
                                                                                                                                                          > > chemicals to increase the pH (make it more alkaline) by adding
                                                                                                                                                          > sodium
                                                                                                                                                          > > bicarbonate, or decrease it (make it more acidic) by adding
                                                                                                                                                          > > phosphoric acid. You will rarely need to adjust the pH, but there
                                                                                                                                                          > are
                                                                                                                                                          > > times it becomes necessary, such as if you are trying to encourage
                                                                                                                                                          > > breeding in a species of fish and want to create optimum conditions
                                                                                                                                                          > > that include a specific pH level.
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                          > > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "arch1574"
                                                                                                                                                          > > <arch1574@b...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > > > My daughter Erin talked me into trying an aquarium again and
                                                                                                                                                          > > > recommended this site for info. I decided to try fishless cycling
                                                                                                                                                          > > > and up until yesterday thought I was not going to be able to take
                                                                                                                                                          > > > Erin's mollies off her hands, because my pH (which started out
                                                                                                                                                          > > maxed
                                                                                                                                                          > > > out above 8.4) was hovering at 7.8 for several days. Today my
                                                                                                                                                          > > > ammonia levels dropped back down to 1.0 (had been 8.0+) and my pH
                                                                                                                                                          > > > did a nose dive to 6.8.
                                                                                                                                                          > > Suggestions for stabilizing it, or should I
                                                                                                                                                          > > > wait until after the cycling is completed?
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                                          > Service.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          bored? fear not! hit up
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                                                                          you know you want to....
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2090 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: backgrounds
                                                                                                                                                          my apologies to all about that post length, i'm sick today and forgot
                                                                                                                                                          to cut the end off!
                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          On May 13, 2004, at 8:09 PM, amalthea23 wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > no no! take it out you put it on the back and tape it on!!!!
                                                                                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          > On May 13, 2004, at 8:01 PM, Audrey Archer wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                          Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                          Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2091 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 206
                                                                                                                                                          I only said it goes on the inside cuz that is what hubby said. LOL the aquarium is "my thing" here, and the only way HE could figure to use a background is with tape. Those backgrounds *are* vague, no kind of instructions at all.

                                                                                                                                                          We don't use one, personally.

                                                                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2092 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 206
                                                                                                                                                          yup, that's how you're supposed to do it, just tape it on, that way
                                                                                                                                                          they're reversible and easy to take off in case the back needs cleaning
                                                                                                                                                          or anything...
                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          On May 13, 2004, at 8:12 PM, witchywmn42@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > I only said it goes on the inside cuz that is what hubby said. LOL the
                                                                                                                                                          > aquarium is "my thing" here, and the only way HE could figure to use a
                                                                                                                                                          > background is with tape. Those backgrounds *are* vague, no kind of
                                                                                                                                                          > instructions at all.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > We don't use one, personally.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Erin
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                                          for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                          religion....
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2093 From: magnolia_busse Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Moonlight Gourami's hating each other.
                                                                                                                                                          Yes, the one did get larger. They are in a 50 gal, now.. started in
                                                                                                                                                          a 20. ..so I'd think they could be happy far appart from each other
                                                                                                                                                          now.. but no..

                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                          <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > had the difference in size increased? that could be it, the big
                                                                                                                                                          one
                                                                                                                                                          > just realized that he can really bully the other successfully. how
                                                                                                                                                          > large is the tank?
                                                                                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          > On May 13, 2004, at 6:51 PM, magnolia_busse wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > > I have had 2 moonlights, both female (I think) for a few months
                                                                                                                                                          now.
                                                                                                                                                          > > Just recently, the larger of the two has become very aggressive
                                                                                                                                                          > > towards the smaller one. They used to play and chase each
                                                                                                                                                          other, but
                                                                                                                                                          > > now the smaller moonlight hides under plants and rarely comes
                                                                                                                                                          out
                                                                                                                                                          > > unless pushed out by the larger moonlight.
                                                                                                                                                          > > The smaller one doesn't seem to be weak, or sick, just..
                                                                                                                                                          tormented
                                                                                                                                                          > > and scared. Should I separate them? Why are they doing this now
                                                                                                                                                          > > after months of getting along?
                                                                                                                                                          > >
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                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                          > Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2094 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Moonlight Gourami's hating each other.
                                                                                                                                                          gouramis can be very very aggressive fish, sometimes, no matter how
                                                                                                                                                          much space they have, they're just plain mean. i'd separate the small
                                                                                                                                                          one from the larger, eventually the stress will become too much...
                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          On May 13, 2004, at 9:09 PM, magnolia_busse wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > Yes, the one did get larger. They are in a 50 gal, now.. started in
                                                                                                                                                          > a 20. ..so I'd think they could be happy far appart from each other
                                                                                                                                                          > now.. but no..
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                          Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                          Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2095 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for trying :)
                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                          Andreas
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2096 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Placement of backround
                                                                                                                                                          H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                          ..............and your daughter was right. It was a little cumbersome, but I Scotch-Taped my backround to the outside rear of the tank. There should be SOME room to drop the thing behind the tank. You could apply tape to both sides at the top, and be careless enough to suspend one end roughly enough to hold it in place 'till you accurately position the other end. This is OK if you have enough room, tight as that may be, to eventually reach any area (at the ends) with tape to hold it in place. Another thing. You could use the hang-on filters to hold it in place 'till you can appropriately secure it.
                                                                                                                                                          Joe Pascavage



                                                                                                                                                          > >
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                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2097 From: Cyndy Date: 5/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Question...
                                                                                                                                                          I'm pretty new to fish...only had them for around 6 months. I have a
                                                                                                                                                          15 gallon tank with a biowheel. I do 30% to 50% water changes at
                                                                                                                                                          least weekly but usually bi-weekly. I find it just keeps the water
                                                                                                                                                          quality under control better. I have a betta, 3 skunk cories, and 4
                                                                                                                                                          tetras in there. I added a tiny frog on impulse last week. I feed
                                                                                                                                                          mostly flakes but occasionally I will feed frozen for a treat.

                                                                                                                                                          A couple of weeks ago I noticed a few white spots on my betta. Two.
                                                                                                                                                          They kind of looked like white pimples. I watched them and although
                                                                                                                                                          they didn't do away, they didn't appear to be spreading. I don't
                                                                                                                                                          think they are Ich...but I might be wrong. This morning he probably
                                                                                                                                                          has 5 or 6...one on his fin. One tetra has been kind of swimming a
                                                                                                                                                          little funny the last week....I have been watching him and although
                                                                                                                                                          he is swimming at an angle, everything else seems to be okay. He
                                                                                                                                                          hangs with the pack and is eating okay.

                                                                                                                                                          I am considering taking out the biowheel and medicating the tank.
                                                                                                                                                          What do you all think? Do you think I introduced a paracite with the
                                                                                                                                                          frozen food? I really want to catch this early. Could it be a
                                                                                                                                                          fungus? The spots don't look fuzzy.

                                                                                                                                                          ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2098 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                          it's unlikely that you had a parasite in with frozen food, most are
                                                                                                                                                          treated to prevent the transmission of such things. i would introduce 3
                                                                                                                                                          tablespoons of salt to start with. what's the temperature in the tank?
                                                                                                                                                          also, when medicating, you do not need to remove the biowheel. by doing
                                                                                                                                                          that, you will kill any ad all bacteria on the wheel and render it
                                                                                                                                                          useless. you only need to remove the charcoal part of the filter during
                                                                                                                                                          medication...
                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          On May 14, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Cyndy wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > I'm pretty new to fish...only had them for around 6 months.  I have a
                                                                                                                                                          > 15 gallon tank with a biowheel.  I do 30% to 50% water changes at
                                                                                                                                                          > least weekly but usually bi-weekly.  I find it just keeps the water
                                                                                                                                                          > quality under control better.  I have a betta, 3 skunk cories, and 4
                                                                                                                                                          > tetras in there.  I added a tiny frog on impulse last week.  I feed
                                                                                                                                                          > mostly flakes but occasionally I will feed frozen for a treat.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > A couple of weeks ago I noticed a few white spots on my betta. Two. 
                                                                                                                                                          > They kind of looked like white pimples.  I watched them and although
                                                                                                                                                          > they didn't do away, they didn't appear to be spreading.  I don't
                                                                                                                                                          > think they are Ich...but I might be wrong.  This morning he probably
                                                                                                                                                          > has 5 or 6...one on his fin.  One tetra has been kind of swimming a
                                                                                                                                                          > little funny the last week....I have been watching him and although
                                                                                                                                                          > he is swimming at an angle, everything else seems to be okay.  He
                                                                                                                                                          > hangs with the pack and is eating okay. 
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > I am considering taking out the biowheel and medicating the tank. 
                                                                                                                                                          > What do you all think?  Do you think I introduced a paracite with the
                                                                                                                                                          > frozen food?  I really want to catch this early.  Could it be a
                                                                                                                                                          > fungus?  The spots don't look fuzzy.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                          >  
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                                                                                                                                                          >  
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                                                                                                                                                          > Service.
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                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2099 From: Cyndy Date: 5/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                          I have read that cories are extremely irritated by salt. I don't
                                                                                                                                                          want to make my skunk corries ill. Has anyone added salt to their
                                                                                                                                                          tanks with cories? I thought that if I added...oh say Maroxy, to my
                                                                                                                                                          tank that it would kill all the good bacteria on my biowheel. Is
                                                                                                                                                          that not right? So...if I take out the biowheel it will kill it,
                                                                                                                                                          too? I keep my temp slightly below 80...around 78.

                                                                                                                                                          `Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                          <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > it's unlikely that you had a parasite in with frozen food, most are
                                                                                                                                                          > treated to prevent the transmission of such things. i would
                                                                                                                                                          introduce 3
                                                                                                                                                          > tablespoons of salt to start with. what's the temperature in the
                                                                                                                                                          tank?
                                                                                                                                                          > also, when medicating, you do not need to remove the biowheel. by
                                                                                                                                                          doing
                                                                                                                                                          > that, you will kill any ad all bacteria on the wheel and render it
                                                                                                                                                          > useless. you only need to remove the charcoal part of the filter
                                                                                                                                                          during
                                                                                                                                                          > medication...
                                                                                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          > On May 14, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Cyndy wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > > I'm pretty new to fish...only had them for around 6 months.  I
                                                                                                                                                          have a
                                                                                                                                                          > > 15 gallon tank with a biowheel.  I do 30% to 50% water changes at
                                                                                                                                                          > > least weekly but usually bi-weekly.  I find it just keeps the
                                                                                                                                                          water
                                                                                                                                                          > > quality under control better.  I have a betta, 3 skunk cories,
                                                                                                                                                          and 4
                                                                                                                                                          > > tetras in there.  I added a tiny frog on impulse last week.  I
                                                                                                                                                          feed
                                                                                                                                                          > > mostly flakes but occasionally I will feed frozen for a treat.
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > A couple of weeks ago I noticed a few white spots on my betta.
                                                                                                                                                          Two. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > They kind of looked like white pimples.  I watched them and
                                                                                                                                                          although
                                                                                                                                                          > > they didn't do away, they didn't appear to be spreading.  I don't
                                                                                                                                                          > > think they are Ich...but I might be wrong.  This morning he
                                                                                                                                                          probably
                                                                                                                                                          > > has 5 or 6...one on his fin.  One tetra has been kind of
                                                                                                                                                          swimming a
                                                                                                                                                          > > little funny the last week....I have been watching him and
                                                                                                                                                          although
                                                                                                                                                          > > he is swimming at an angle, everything else seems to be okay.  He
                                                                                                                                                          > > hangs with the pack and is eating okay. 
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > I am considering taking out the biowheel and medicating the
                                                                                                                                                          tank. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > What do you all think?  Do you think I introduced a paracite
                                                                                                                                                          with the
                                                                                                                                                          > > frozen food?  I really want to catch this early.  Could it be a
                                                                                                                                                          > > fungus?  The spots don't look fuzzy.
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                                                                                          > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                                          > > <lrec_companion_043004.gif>
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                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                                          > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > >  
                                                                                                                                                          > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                          Terms of
                                                                                                                                                          > > Service.
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > bored? fear not! hit up
                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                                                                          > you know you want to....
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2100 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                          most places will tell you that adding 1tbsp of salt is such a low
                                                                                                                                                          concentration that it will not harm any freshwater fish.
                                                                                                                                                          yes, taking the biowheel out will kill the bacteria, it needs to be
                                                                                                                                                          constantly rotating through wet and air to survive. and as for
                                                                                                                                                          medications, i'd try something very gentile like amquel. you can even
                                                                                                                                                          use that product with scaleless fishes (like pictus cats) and on snails
                                                                                                                                                          with no negative results, but it's quite an affective medication
                                                                                                                                                          against ick, velvet, and parasites. you still need to remove the carbon
                                                                                                                                                          though! once this is done, raise your tank temp 2 degrees and you
                                                                                                                                                          should be good to go!
                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          On May 14, 2004, at 1:03 PM, Cyndy wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > I have read that cories are extremely irritated by salt.  I don't
                                                                                                                                                          > want to make my skunk corries ill.  Has anyone added salt to their
                                                                                                                                                          > tanks with cories?  I thought that if I added...oh say Maroxy, to my
                                                                                                                                                          > tank that it would kill all the good bacteria on my biowheel.  Is
                                                                                                                                                          > that not right?  So...if I take out the biowheel it will kill it,
                                                                                                                                                          > too?  I keep my temp slightly below 80...around 78.
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > `Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                          > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > > it's unlikely that you had a parasite in with frozen food, most are
                                                                                                                                                          > > treated to prevent the transmission of such things. i would
                                                                                                                                                          > introduce 3
                                                                                                                                                          > > tablespoons of salt to start with. what's the temperature in the
                                                                                                                                                          > tank?
                                                                                                                                                          > > also, when medicating, you do not need to remove the biowheel. by
                                                                                                                                                          > doing
                                                                                                                                                          > > that, you will kill any ad all bacteria on the wheel and render it
                                                                                                                                                          > > useless. you only need to remove the charcoal part of the filter
                                                                                                                                                          > during
                                                                                                                                                          > > medication...
                                                                                                                                                          > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          > > On May 14, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Cyndy wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > I'm pretty new to fish...only had them for around 6 months.  I
                                                                                                                                                          > have a
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  15 gallon tank with a biowheel.  I do 30% to 50% water changes at
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  least weekly but usually bi-weekly.  I find it just keeps the
                                                                                                                                                          > water
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  quality under control better.  I have a betta, 3 skunk cories,
                                                                                                                                                          > and 4
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  tetras in there.  I added a tiny frog on impulse last week.  I
                                                                                                                                                          > feed
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  mostly flakes but occasionally I will feed frozen for a treat.
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  A couple of weeks ago I noticed a few white spots on my betta.
                                                                                                                                                          > Two. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  They kind of looked like white pimples.  I watched them and
                                                                                                                                                          > although
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  they didn't do away, they didn't appear to be spreading.  I don't
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  think they are Ich...but I might be wrong.  This morning he
                                                                                                                                                          > probably
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  has 5 or 6...one on his fin.  One tetra has been kind of
                                                                                                                                                          > swimming a
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  little funny the last week....I have been watching him and
                                                                                                                                                          > although
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  he is swimming at an angle, everything else seems to be okay.  He
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  hangs with the pack and is eating okay. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  I am considering taking out the biowheel and medicating the
                                                                                                                                                          > tank. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  What do you all think?  Do you think I introduced a paracite
                                                                                                                                                          > with the
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  frozen food?  I really want to catch this early.  Could it be a
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  fungus?  The spots don't look fuzzy.
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                                          > > > <lrec_companion_043004.gif>
                                                                                                                                                          > > > <l.gif>
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >       •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  
                                                                                                                                                          > > >       •       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                          > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  
                                                                                                                                                          > > >       •       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                                                                                                                                          > Terms of
                                                                                                                                                          > > > Service.
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                                                                                                                                                          > > bored? fear not! hit up
                                                                                                                                                          > > http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                                                                          > > you know you want to....
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                                                                                                                                                          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                          don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2101 From: Cyndy Date: 5/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                          Thanks! I'll stop by the PS on the way home and pick up some
                                                                                                                                                          aquarium salt. I'm out of carbon filters (on last one) and was going
                                                                                                                                                          to pick some up anyway. How do you get the amquel out of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                          Do you know how long I should let it run?

                                                                                                                                                          ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                          <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > most places will tell you that adding 1tbsp of salt is such a low
                                                                                                                                                          > concentration that it will not harm any freshwater fish.
                                                                                                                                                          > yes, taking the biowheel out will kill the bacteria, it needs to be
                                                                                                                                                          > constantly rotating through wet and air to survive. and as for
                                                                                                                                                          > medications, i'd try something very gentile like amquel. you can
                                                                                                                                                          even
                                                                                                                                                          > use that product with scaleless fishes (like pictus cats) and on
                                                                                                                                                          snails
                                                                                                                                                          > with no negative results, but it's quite an affective medication
                                                                                                                                                          > against ick, velvet, and parasites. you still need to remove the
                                                                                                                                                          carbon
                                                                                                                                                          > though! once this is done, raise your tank temp 2 degrees and you
                                                                                                                                                          > should be good to go!
                                                                                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          > On May 14, 2004, at 1:03 PM, Cyndy wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > > I have read that cories are extremely irritated by salt.  I don't
                                                                                                                                                          > > want to make my skunk corries ill.  Has anyone added salt to
                                                                                                                                                          their
                                                                                                                                                          > > tanks with cories?  I thought that if I added...oh say Maroxy,
                                                                                                                                                          to my
                                                                                                                                                          > > tank that it would kill all the good bacteria on my biowheel.  Is
                                                                                                                                                          > > that not right?  So...if I take out the biowheel it will kill it,
                                                                                                                                                          > > too?  I keep my temp slightly below 80...around 78.
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > `Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                          > > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > > > it's unlikely that you had a parasite in with frozen food,
                                                                                                                                                          most are
                                                                                                                                                          > > > treated to prevent the transmission of such things. i would
                                                                                                                                                          > > introduce 3
                                                                                                                                                          > > > tablespoons of salt to start with. what's the temperature in
                                                                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                                                                          > > tank?
                                                                                                                                                          > > > also, when medicating, you do not need to remove the biowheel.
                                                                                                                                                          by
                                                                                                                                                          > > doing
                                                                                                                                                          > > > that, you will kill any ad all bacteria on the wheel and
                                                                                                                                                          render it
                                                                                                                                                          > > > useless. you only need to remove the charcoal part of the
                                                                                                                                                          filter
                                                                                                                                                          > > during
                                                                                                                                                          > > > medication...
                                                                                                                                                          > > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          > > > On May 14, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Cyndy wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > > I'm pretty new to fish...only had them for around 6 months. 
                                                                                                                                                          I
                                                                                                                                                          > > have a
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  15 gallon tank with a biowheel.  I do 30% to 50% water
                                                                                                                                                          changes at
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  least weekly but usually bi-weekly.  I find it just keeps
                                                                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                                                                          > > water
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  quality under control better.  I have a betta, 3 skunk
                                                                                                                                                          cories,
                                                                                                                                                          > > and 4
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  tetras in there.  I added a tiny frog on impulse last
                                                                                                                                                          week.  I
                                                                                                                                                          > > feed
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  mostly flakes but occasionally I will feed frozen for a
                                                                                                                                                          treat.
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  A couple of weeks ago I noticed a few white spots on my
                                                                                                                                                          betta.
                                                                                                                                                          > > Two. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  They kind of looked like white pimples.  I watched them and
                                                                                                                                                          > > although
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  they didn't do away, they didn't appear to be spreading.  I
                                                                                                                                                          don't
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  think they are Ich...but I might be wrong.  This morning he
                                                                                                                                                          > > probably
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  has 5 or 6...one on his fin.  One tetra has been kind of
                                                                                                                                                          > > swimming a
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  little funny the last week....I have been watching him and
                                                                                                                                                          > > although
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  he is swimming at an angle, everything else seems to be
                                                                                                                                                          okay.  He
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  hangs with the pack and is eating okay. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  I am considering taking out the biowheel and medicating the
                                                                                                                                                          > > tank. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  What do you all think?  Do you think I introduced a paracite
                                                                                                                                                          > > with the
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  frozen food?  I really want to catch this early.  Could it
                                                                                                                                                          be a
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  fungus?  The spots don't look fuzzy.
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >  ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2102 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: aquarisol! not amquel...
                                                                                                                                                          argh, pardon my lunacy! i'm glad i caught you before you left, not
                                                                                                                                                          amquel, aquarisol. (i'm home with pneumonia and i'm a little bleh). i
                                                                                                                                                          believe the dosage is once a week, for two weeks without carbon.
                                                                                                                                                          aquarisol is colorless and relatively odorless as well, so after the
                                                                                                                                                          treatments are done, all you have to do is a small water change and
                                                                                                                                                          replace the carbon filter and everything is ok. it can also be used as
                                                                                                                                                          a once weekly (leaving in the carbon) preventative treatment....

                                                                                                                                                          On May 14, 2004, at 1:44 PM, Cyndy wrote:

                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks!  I'll stop by the PS on the way home and pick up some
                                                                                                                                                          > aquarium salt.  I'm out of carbon filters (on last one) and was going
                                                                                                                                                          > to pick some up anyway.  How do you get the amquel out of the tank. 
                                                                                                                                                          > Do you know how long I should let it run?
                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                          > ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                          > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > > most places will tell you that adding 1tbsp of salt is such a low
                                                                                                                                                          > > concentration that it will not harm any freshwater fish.
                                                                                                                                                          > > yes, taking the biowheel out will kill the bacteria, it needs to be
                                                                                                                                                          > > constantly rotating through wet and air to survive. and as for
                                                                                                                                                          > > medications, i'd try something very gentile like amquel. you can
                                                                                                                                                          > even
                                                                                                                                                          > > use that product with scaleless fishes (like pictus cats) and on
                                                                                                                                                          > snails
                                                                                                                                                          > > with no negative results, but it's quite an affective medication
                                                                                                                                                          > > against ick, velvet, and parasites. you still need to remove the
                                                                                                                                                          > carbon
                                                                                                                                                          > > though! once this is done, raise your tank temp 2 degrees and you
                                                                                                                                                          > > should be good to go!
                                                                                                                                                          > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          > > On May 14, 2004, at 1:03 PM, Cyndy wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > > I have read that cories are extremely irritated by salt.  I don't
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  want to make my skunk corries ill.  Has anyone added salt to
                                                                                                                                                          > their
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  tanks with cories?  I thought that if I added...oh say Maroxy,
                                                                                                                                                          > to my
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  tank that it would kill all the good bacteria on my biowheel.  Is
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  that not right?  So...if I take out the biowheel it will kill it,
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  too?  I keep my temp slightly below 80...around 78.
                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  `Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > it's unlikely that you had a parasite in with frozen food,
                                                                                                                                                          > most are
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > treated to prevent the transmission of such things. i would
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  introduce 3
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > tablespoons of salt to start with. what's the temperature in
                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  tank?
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > also, when medicating, you do not need to remove the biowheel.
                                                                                                                                                          > by
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  doing
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > that, you will kill any ad all bacteria on the wheel and
                                                                                                                                                          > render it
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > useless. you only need to remove the charcoal part of the
                                                                                                                                                          > filter
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  during
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > medication...
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > On May 14, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Cyndy wrote:
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > > I'm pretty new to fish...only had them for around 6 months. 
                                                                                                                                                          > I
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  have a
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  15 gallon tank with a biowheel.  I do 30% to 50% water
                                                                                                                                                          > changes at
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  least weekly but usually bi-weekly.  I find it just keeps
                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  water
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  quality under control better.  I have a betta, 3 skunk
                                                                                                                                                          > cories,
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  and 4
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  tetras in there.  I added a tiny frog on impulse last
                                                                                                                                                          > week.  I
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  feed
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  mostly flakes but occasionally I will feed frozen for a
                                                                                                                                                          > treat.
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  A couple of weeks ago I noticed a few white spots on my
                                                                                                                                                          > betta.
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  Two. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  They kind of looked like white pimples.  I watched them and
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  although
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  they didn't do away, they didn't appear to be spreading.  I
                                                                                                                                                          > don't
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  think they are Ich...but I might be wrong.  This morning he
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  probably
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  has 5 or 6...one on his fin.  One tetra has been kind of
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  swimming a
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  little funny the last week....I have been watching him and
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  although
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  he is swimming at an angle, everything else seems to be
                                                                                                                                                          > okay.  He
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  hangs with the pack and is eating okay. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  I am considering taking out the biowheel and medicating the
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  tank. 
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  What do you all think?  Do you think I introduced a paracite
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  with the
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  frozen food?  I really want to catch this early.  Could it
                                                                                                                                                          > be a
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  fungus?  The spots don't look fuzzy.
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >  ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >
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                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > >       •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                          > > >  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                                                                                          > > >  
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                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2104 From: secretlaw Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Need African Cichlids
                                                                                                                                                          Does anybody have some cichlids fry for sale in Calgary area?
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2105 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: does anyone recognize this fish?
                                                                                                                                                          Did I miss a post? Where is the link? Can someone send it to me?
                                                                                                                                                          Thanks. Is this about the albino ghost? I just saw one on one of my
                                                                                                                                                          availabilities, but since I don't normally carry knifes, I didn't give a
                                                                                                                                                          second thought to it. I know it was cheaper than 300 bucks, though.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2106 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Placement of backround
                                                                                                                                                          I like to mount a piece of cardboard behind the background, whether it
                                                                                                                                                          be plastic or painted on. It helps insulate the tank so the heaters
                                                                                                                                                          don't have to be on as much.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2107 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                          Another med that works great if you only have broad leaved plants is
                                                                                                                                                          Coppersafe from Mardel. It will not color your water and lasts for a
                                                                                                                                                          month. But the temp should be at 84* so the parasites can't form the
                                                                                                                                                          cyst u describe. As for fungi, they are always a secondary infection
                                                                                                                                                          and in 36 years of fish cohabitating, I think I've only encountered it 3
                                                                                                                                                          or 4 times. If you try Coppersafe or any other parasite cure, remove
                                                                                                                                                          any snails or shrimp.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2108 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                          Oh, and Coppersafe will not harm bacteria. And, yes I keep all my fish,
                                                                                                                                                          including cories in tanks with salt. Salt has doubled and tripled the
                                                                                                                                                          lifes of my fish. It has never caused a premature death. Remember,
                                                                                                                                                          there's not a body of water on the planet that doesn't have naturally
                                                                                                                                                          occuring salt, unless it's man made. As rain runs through the soil, it
                                                                                                                                                          picks up these salts.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2109 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                          Amquel doesn't need to be removed, it just detoxifies ammonia, if it's
                                                                                                                                                          Aquel Plus, it also detoxifes nitrites and nitrates. And don't bother
                                                                                                                                                          buying aquarium salt, kosher and canning salts are the same thing, pure
                                                                                                                                                          salt. Just a hec of alot cheaper.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2110 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: aquarisol! not amquel...
                                                                                                                                                          Aquarisol and Coppersafe are both copper sulfate, 3% solutions.

                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2111 From: red-eye Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: can anyone get South american leaf fish?
                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                            very cool fish. Any idea if they do well?




                                                                                                                                                            At 01:52 PM 5/13/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            specifically
                                                                                                                                                            Monocirrhus polyacanthus
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                I am looking for some, found 3 on Aqua bid but was out bid :( 
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                does anyone out there breed these?
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                Andreas

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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2112 From: red-eye Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                            better filtration & live plants works for me
                                                                                                                                                            red-eye


                                                                                                                                                            At 05:05 AM 5/12/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                             Hi Wade,
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                   I had 4 fish in my pond last year that had to come out for winter... 2 black moor's, and 2 oranda's.  They were about 4-5" long each.... I brought them inside and put them in an extra 29 gallon tank that we had and could not for the life of me keep that tank clean.....
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                  I think we drove the poor fish store owner crazy begging him to help us..... and it just turned out that gold fish of ANY kind are just dirty fish.. they seem to poop ALOT.. I did water changes every other day for almost a month and finally sold them back to the fish store as it was to frustrating having a skanky looking tank all the time....
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                So if there is an answer out there, I would be real interested also as to the secret of keeping larger goldfish breeds inside.
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Kelly
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Date: 05/12/04 01:06:55
                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            Hey Guys,
                                                                                                                                                            I am pretty new to aquarium as a hobby and I have a problem with my
                                                                                                                                                            tank.
                                                                                                                                                            I have Gold Fish Orandas and Lionheads, eight med size, not very big
                                                                                                                                                            at all in a 55 gallon. I have to filters on the back, and
                                                                                                                                                            underground filter , and a submerged filter.

                                                                                                                                                            My water will not stay clear, it gets a cloudy green tint. If I
                                                                                                                                                            change all the water, clean the gravel, it stays clear for about 2
                                                                                                                                                            weeks then starts to get cloudy again.

                                                                                                                                                            What in the hell am I doing wrong. someone said I did not have any
                                                                                                                                                            filteration, that is why I have as many as I do. I have been told to
                                                                                                                                                            move it away from any windows, remove my underground filter, that it
                                                                                                                                                            was the goldfish themselves that cause the problem. I do not know
                                                                                                                                                            who to believe or what else to do to correct this problem.

                                                                                                                                                            Can anyone help me.

                                                                                                                                                            Wade



                                                                                                                                                             

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                                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                                            red-eye

                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
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                                                                                                                                                            Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                            The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                            If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                            http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                            Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                            For accurate, useful care information
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2113 From: red-eye Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hello

                                                                                                                                                            At 09:17 AM 5/8/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            I am a recent member.. I have a small aquarium
                                                                                                                                                            & a small goldfish pond ..
                                                                                                                                                            want to learn about keeping  the pond in good condition..
                                                                                                                                                              Linda M. /Scarlett



                                                                                                                                                            What do you want to know about ponds. I have been a ponder for decades.

                                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                                            red-eye

                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                            The "sulcata" list serve:
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                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                                            Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                            The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                            If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                            http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                            Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                            For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                            ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                            The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                                            Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                                            Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
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                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2114 From: red-eye Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mollies
                                                                                                                                                            I have been keeping turtles for decades & you can in fact keep them indoors. BUT you must have a lot of filtration.....and space for them





                                                                                                                                                            At 07:55 PM 5/2/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                            are the snails invading an indoor aquarium? turtles, while being really
                                                                                                                                                            cool, but a TREMENDOUS bio load on a tank, so unless they're in a pond,
                                                                                                                                                            the best route is loaches, or chichlids or even a crayfish....
                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                            On May 2, 2004, at 10:12 PM, hspellmen wrote:

                                                                                                                                                            > Three questions, are mollies considered agressive? or just pigs.  I
                                                                                                                                                            >  have 4 in a 55gal tank.  They seem to be out eating the other 12
                                                                                                                                                            >  fish combined.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >  Two is, the little snails that look like pregnant fleas, good or
                                                                                                                                                            >  bad?  if I chose to get rid of them, are turtles the best route?
                                                                                                                                                            >  Right now, they seem to be eating the plants.
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >  Is there a ratio or recomendation as to how many cat fish to have in
                                                                                                                                                            >  a tank?  what about algea eaters?
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >  Phil
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >        •        To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                            for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                            religion....



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                                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                                            red-eye

                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                            The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                                            Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                            The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                            If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                            http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                            Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                            For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                            ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                            The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                                            Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                                            Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                                            ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2115 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mollies
                                                                                                                                                            i keep turtles indoors as well, i have 4 very large aquatic ones
                                                                                                                                                            actually, and while keeping them happy isn't that hard, keeping them in
                                                                                                                                                            such a way that any tropical fish would be happy with them is not
                                                                                                                                                            easy...
                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                            On May 15, 2004, at 12:15 PM, red-eye wrote:

                                                                                                                                                            > I have been keeping turtles for decades & you can in fact keep them
                                                                                                                                                            > indoors. BUT you must have a lot of filtration.....and space for them
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                            http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                                            web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2116 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: hello
                                                                                                                                                            I am a recent member.. I have a small aquarium
                                                                                                                                                            & a small goldfish pond ..
                                                                                                                                                            want to learn about keeping  the pond in good condition..
                                                                                                                                                              Linda M. /Scarlett


                                                                                                                                                            What do you want to know about ponds. I have been a ponder for decades.
                                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                                            red-eye
                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            anything & everything..
                                                                                                                                                            you want to share..
                                                                                                                                                            thanks.. Linda
                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2117 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Need Help with Goldfish problems
                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                              H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                              I don't know what the solution to your problem is, but I had a 75-gallon-tank, and eventually ended up with a couple goldfish, after having two goldfish, and 3 or 4 koi. (the latter were sold/given to the LFS 'cuz I felt either there were too many fish, and/or the Koi were (or one of them was too aggressive to the Goldfish). I had a full-bottom undergravel-filter, with powerheads attached to four uptake tubes. Also A large Whisper and large Hagen hang-on on the right and left rear. I may have had a polyester-mat placed over the UGF, underneath 4-5 inches of gravel. (the mat was a product sold for that purpose, and seemed to help break-down bio-mass ). I used a mechanical/battery-operated vacuum weekly, and pressed slightly into the gravel, covering the entire bottom). I always changed 50% of the water in my tanks weekly, which was recommended and advised against by opposing forces in the fish-trade, and the fish seemed to actually like it. I think I finally had two veiltail Goldfish, and became concerned or obsessed with the fact that even a 75 gallon aquarium was too small for fish that were getting that large, so I sold/gave them to the LFS. The size, filter-system and maintainance proceedures mentioned above worked to keep the tank water clear. Goldfish are'nt dirty, they're just large eventually, and that's just a property of fish-keeping like raking leaves, or weeding in a yard or garden.
                                                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2118 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: can anyone get South american leaf fish?
                                                                                                                                                              Well I actually mnagaed to obtain some locally and have them un a 90 gallon tank right now, they like low ph so I have it down to 6.6 or so they would probably like it lower but the apollo sharks and spotted pike characins they arein with probably would not.  They seem to be settling in ok. I just got them yesterday.  At 1st they where all behind the overflow box hiding,  for a while I thought I was going crazy as I had just put 6 fish in the tank and could not see one of them.  They like to hide and pretend they are leaves, so if you are looking for action these fish won't give it :)  now 24 hours later they are starting to find hiding spots under leaves and such.  I think I am going to feed some guppies today. the only real problem I have is that the tank is too hot. But I am working to fix that.
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2119 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                              so how much salt do you add? for fresh water tropical community tanks?
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2120 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: good fish for small child's aquarium??
                                                                                                                                                              I have a daughter who is almost 6 years old. She's been helping me feed the fish in our 15 gallon aquarium. Today, we *thought* we were going to give my mother several of our mollie fry ... and then my daughter went ballistic that I was going to give away "her babies". Oops. So my mother, in a moment of divine inspiration, said she'd buy Amber her very own aquarium for her bedroom. (Yay, mom!) Now, if I'm looking at the right item in this catalogue they were looking at, the aquarium she was going to get is the 2 gallon Eclipse Explorer. I'm aware it's going to be harder to get a tank that size cycled before we can add fish, and I also know we're going to be VERY limited in what we can put in it.  We'll probably be getting it in about a week ... mom said she's going to go ahead and order it, so it will most likely be here in time for Amber's kindergarten graduation next week.

                                                                                                                                                              - We already have an established 15 gallon tank ... would it be a good idea to fill the new small tank with water from the established 15 gallon to help with cycling? Mom suggested filling my hospital tank with water from the 15 gallon, because of something she'd found online.

                                                                                                                                                              - What are good fish for a tank of the small size? (2 gallons) We have mollies, that Amber has already gotten attached to, but I'm not sure they would do well in an Explorer because putting three in would be testing the limits. She likes the catfish for some reason, but are catfish schooling fish?

                                                                                                                                                              Any suggestions you can offer on keeping the tiny desktop aquariums, and something that a little girl would enjoy looking at and feeding, would be great. We're aware that I'm most likely going to be the one doing the hard stuff, like cleaning the tank, getting the tank cycled before adding any fish, etc. Thanks for reading my rambling! I have a hard time putting stuff into words sometimes. *grin*

                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2121 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
                                                                                                                                                              Hello,
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Eclipse tanks are nice, good choice.
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              I gave my oldest son a 2.5g Mini-Bow for his 11th birthday a couple months ago. With tanks that size you're very limited on what fish can be kept. I've kept bettas off & on for years (I have 7 right now) and he's always liked them so that's what we went with for his tank. I gave him advice on what to look for in fish shopping and he made the choice.
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Bettas are colorful, have interesting personalities, and can be interactive. I've never kept mine in heated tanks but that will depend on where you live (as with most kits, the small tanks don't come with heaters). If you do want a heater, Wal-Mart sells a 'junior' for tanks 5g and under; it can be iffy though, apparently it's preset to shut off at 80° but that doesn't always happen.
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              So she could get a betta, some pretty gravel, a silk plant or two, maybe a small decoration or hidey-place for the betta. Some people also keep ghost shrimp with bettas, depends on the individual fish if he'll eat it or not. A snail would also be a good tank-mate.
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              In a lot of areas females are more readily available now...they have as pretty coloring as the males, just not the long finnage.
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              By the way, any of my tanks under 10g (6, 5.5, 5, some 2s and 1s) I don't bother cycling.
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Theresa
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 4:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] good fish for small child's aquarium??

                                                                                                                                                              I have a daughter who is almost 6 years old. She's been helping me feed the fish in our 15 gallon aquarium. Today, we *thought* we were going to give my mother several of our mollie fry ... and then my daughter went ballistic that I was going to give away "her babies". Oops. So my mother, in a moment of divine inspiration, said she'd buy Amber her very own aquarium for her bedroom. (Yay, mom!) Now, if I'm looking at the right item in this catalogue they were looking at, the aquarium she was going to get is the 2 gallon Eclipse Explorer. I'm aware it's going to be harder to get a tank that size cycled before we can add fish, and I also know we're going to be VERY limited in what we can put in it.  We'll probably be getting it in about a week ... mom said she's going to go ahead and order it, so it will most likely be here in time for Amber's kindergarten graduation next week.

                                                                                                                                                              - We already have an established 15 gallon tank ... would it be a good idea to fill the new small tank with water from the established 15 gallon to help with cycling? Mom suggested filling my hospital tank with water from the 15 gallon, because of something she'd found online.

                                                                                                                                                              - What are good fish for a tank of the small size? (2 gallons) We have mollies, that Amber has already gotten attached to, but I'm not sure they would do well in an Explorer because putting three in would be testing the limits. She likes the catfish for some reason, but are catfish schooling fish?

                                                                                                                                                              Any suggestions you can offer on keeping the tiny desktop aquariums, and something that a little girl would enjoy looking at and feeding, would be great. We're aware that I'm most likely going to be the one doing the hard stuff, like cleaning the tank, getting the tank cycled before adding any fish, etc. Thanks for reading my rambling! I have a hard time putting stuff into words sometimes. *grin*

                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2122 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: hello/LINDA
                                                                                                                                                               Hi Linda,
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                  We have a 12'X15' established pond with fish and plants... Rather than me ramble... How about you shoot out the questions and I will send the answers.. 
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              I have pictures posted in the photo section if you want to take a peek.... Or this link will bring you to a site with alot of pictures of the pond http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              ( of course some things have changed as I have been a busy beaver this spring..... lol)
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Hugs,
                                                                                                                                                               Kelly
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              anything & everything..
                                                                                                                                                              you want to share..
                                                                                                                                                              thanks.. Linda

                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2123 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                As far as catfish schooling, if they're Corydoras, mine have ALWAYS schooled. I read it's they're nature. If you have three of the same species, they're likely to mostly be together. If two or three are different subspecies, in nature they've been found together when feeding. At other times, paired or alone in my home experience, but they've always been non-aggressive.
                                                                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2124 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: child's small aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                Okay ... so the catfish, I'll need to look again at the ones that caught her eye before giving her that as an option. She's not quite six, so seeing ALL of the fish at the store is a bit overwhelming for choices, so when it comes down to it we'll have to preselect a few good choices and let her pick from them.

                                                                                                                                                                Interestingly enough, I had been debating getting a betta and a male platy to put in the 15 gallon once I clear out some of the mollies.

                                                                                                                                                                She may not be happy about it, but I can't give her mollies because even 3, at the minimum schooling size, isn't really a nice size group. And the tank being that size, she'd be able to get ONE mollie, and nothing else.  So I guess I need to look more into fish that do well all by themselves.

                                                                                                                                                                Now ... about plants...  Are artificial really the best bet for a tank that size? It would definitely make it easier to care for the tank, by my guess, but I was concerned about nitrates and such. If I'M having problems with nitrates in a 15 gallon tank, I'm afraid of what will happen in a 2.

                                                                                                                                                                Theresa, you mentioned that in the small tanks you don't bother with cycling. So what did you do, just set up the tank a day or so before you put fish in? Just curious, since I waited until so late in the game for doing research, and lost several fish when just starting, I'd like to avoid that happening to my daughter.

                                                                                                                                                                Erin
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2125 From: Audrey Archer Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Background
                                                                                                                                                                I'm glad to get another response to this question - all the previous ones had been cut off the last digest. (Thanks to those others who responded, as well.) I guess the next time I do a water change, I will relocate the background... Hopefully I won't carry too much of my biological filtration with it, since I didn't have any special media. My filter combines the mechanical with the carbon in one unit, so I have now started a separate hospital tank just in case I need to doctor a fish in future.
                                                                                                                                                                New problem: I was advised to add baking soda to my water to increase the buffering - my new Gourami and Oto both need much more than the mere 40 ppm that was left after I ran my fishless cycle (18 days start to finish, y'all). Problem is that it also raised the pH too high for them! (Now back over 7.6 again; starting levels for my water were over 8.4 with 120 ppm of buffering)So now what to do, add peat moss? Will it also cut back my buffering as it acidifies the water?
                                                                                                                                                                Thanks! Audrey
                                                                                                                                                                Message: 10
                                                                                                                                                                Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 11:36:28 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                From: bucks_boogie@...
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Placement of backround

                                                                                                                                                                I like to mount a piece of cardboard behind the background, whether it
                                                                                                                                                                be plastic or painted on. It helps insulate the tank so the heaters
                                                                                                                                                                don't have to be on as much.

                                                                                                                                                                "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2126 From: red-eye Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: hello/LINDA
                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                  I am with Kelly :-)
                                                                                                                                                                  What size pond are you talking about 300 gallons or 3,0000 gallon & what do you want to keep in it?
                                                                                                                                                                  red-eye




                                                                                                                                                                  At 01:46 PM 5/15/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                   Hi Linda,
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                      We have a 12'X15' established pond with fish and plants... Rather than me ramble... How about you shoot out the questions and I will send the answers.. 
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  I have pictures posted in the photo section if you want to take a peek.... Or this link will bring you to a site with alot of pictures of the pond http://public.fotki.com/KellyandWayne/
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  ( of course some things have changed as I have been a busy beaver this spring..... lol)
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  Hugs,
                                                                                                                                                                   Kelly
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  anything & everything..
                                                                                                                                                                  you want to share..
                                                                                                                                                                  thanks.. Linda

                                                                                                                                                                   

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                                                                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2127 From: Audrey Archer Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Digest Number 215
                                                                                                                                                                  I found a site online (LiveAquaria.com) that has lots of recommendations about fishies and the relative size of tank they are happiest with... much more info than is provided in their print catalogue. They recommend 30 gallon tanks for Cory cats. (The smallest size they recommend for anything is 10 gallons, though.) The Oto's are very tiny, and would probably be happy in the 2 - 2.5 gallon size, which might work along with another fish such as a Betta as well. Most other "cats" are territorial and would be unhappy in a small tank. "Mom" (Audrey)

                                                                                                                                                                  - What are good fish for a tank of the small size? (2 gallons) We have
                                                                                                                                                                  mollies, that Amber has already gotten attached to, but I'm not sure they would do
                                                                                                                                                                  well in an Explorer because putting three in would be testing the limits. She
                                                                                                                                                                  likes the catfish for some reason, but are catfish schooling fish?
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2128 From: hspellmen Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: why?
                                                                                                                                                                  have a 55 gal freshwater aquarium, water tests fine, or rather
                                                                                                                                                                  appears. Trouble is the water looks like it is turning yellow.
                                                                                                                                                                  fish are healthy.

                                                                                                                                                                  Any thoughts?

                                                                                                                                                                  Phil
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2129 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                  I guesstimate about a teaspoon per gallon. A cup equals 48 teaspoons,
                                                                                                                                                                  thus 1/4 cup=12 tspn, a quarter of a 46 gallon tank, so a little less
                                                                                                                                                                  than a quarter cup (for example) I'm not gonna stand there and measure
                                                                                                                                                                  exactly what I remove from the tank or measure spoonfuls of salt. As
                                                                                                                                                                  long as the salt you use is granulated, like Jungles aquariu salt or
                                                                                                                                                                  cheaper yet, canning salt. Aquarium Phams salt is rocky and harder to
                                                                                                                                                                  measure small quantities.

                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2130 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: why?
                                                                                                                                                                  Do you have any bogwood in the tank? I realized this in my large 90 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                  table tank that even after 10 months of remaining submerged, the woods were
                                                                                                                                                                  discoloring the water. All tests were perfect but the water was yellow. Now
                                                                                                                                                                  that the woods are gone, there is absolutely no discoloration even after 1
                                                                                                                                                                  month of last water change. To justify the last statement: it's a 90 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                  semiplanted tank with only 2 5" goldfish in there and a 1200lph filter.

                                                                                                                                                                  Another thing that could discolor water is the use of Peat as a filter media
                                                                                                                                                                  or in the substrate. Or use of colored sand/gravel.. I have seen some
                                                                                                                                                                  colored sand that does leech color to the water being sold in a reputable
                                                                                                                                                                  aquarium store. The guys there recommend washing it with hot water before
                                                                                                                                                                  use and do say that it will lose a bit of color after this but will not
                                                                                                                                                                  discolor the water.


                                                                                                                                                                  Nim


                                                                                                                                                                  >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                  >From: hspellmen [mailto:pscherz@...]
                                                                                                                                                                  >Sent: 16 May 2004 20:26
                                                                                                                                                                  >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] why?
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >have a 55 gal freshwater aquarium, water tests fine, or rather
                                                                                                                                                                  >appears. Trouble is the water looks like it is turning yellow.
                                                                                                                                                                  >fish are healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >Any thoughts?
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >Phil
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2131 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
                                                                                                                                                                  Don't worry about the water from the large tank. It'll have elevated
                                                                                                                                                                  nitrates most likely and not enough bacteria in it to make any
                                                                                                                                                                  difference. JMO. But the media in the filtration is your lifesaver.
                                                                                                                                                                  When you set up the tank, add dechlorinated water, 1.5 teaspoons of salt
                                                                                                                                                                  after adding gravel and ornaments (displacing at least 1/2 a gallon of
                                                                                                                                                                  water). Then add a couple of cool water fish, white cloud minnows would
                                                                                                                                                                  be my choice, 3 or 4 of them to start. Place the filter catridge from
                                                                                                                                                                  your larger tank right on top of the little blue cartridge, before the
                                                                                                                                                                  biowheel. As long as the old cartridge has contact with the water,
                                                                                                                                                                  it'll colonize the new tank quickly. But make sure you don't clean the
                                                                                                                                                                  old cartridge for at least a week before transfer, leave it nice and
                                                                                                                                                                  dirty. The light from the room will difuse nicely by the little plastic
                                                                                                                                                                  cover. Live plants aren't an option for this tank unless the hood is
                                                                                                                                                                  retrofitted with a light, maybe a compact 8 watter. I don't think you
                                                                                                                                                                  can do it though. Side note, Dr. Flox of Star Trek Enterprise has those
                                                                                                                                                                  little tank all over sick bay, nice to know Marineland is going to be
                                                                                                                                                                  around in 200 years :-)

                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2132 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: child's small aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                  With the bio wheel, the tank can't help but cycle. That little wheel
                                                                                                                                                                  will have a huge surface area for beneficial bacteria to colonize on it.

                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2133 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: why?
                                                                                                                                                                  H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                                  A quick look at a chart I have handy (recently got it tin the mail from Jungle),

                                                                                                                                                                  YELLOW WATER
                                                                                                                                                                  Water has yellow tint due to wastes, microscopic plant and animal life, overfeeding and decaying food and plants.

                                                                                                                                                                  Possible you introduced something that is or acts as a dye.

                                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                  > have a 55 gal freshwater aquarium, water tests fine, or rather
                                                                                                                                                                  > appears. Trouble is the water looks like it is turning yellow.
                                                                                                                                                                  > fish are healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > Any thoughts?
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > Phil
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2134 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Background
                                                                                                                                                                  My advice, after years of screwing around with it, stop adjusting your
                                                                                                                                                                  pH. Just do your water changes, and unless you have very unusual tap
                                                                                                                                                                  water, it should buffer itself just fine. More fish die from the stress
                                                                                                                                                                  of constantly adjusting pH than would ever die from softer water. As
                                                                                                                                                                  the pH adjusters sell off at my store, I don't reorder any. Matter of
                                                                                                                                                                  fact, I won't sell them, my staff does when I'm not there. This is JMO,
                                                                                                                                                                  but a tank will tend to settle itself out. BTW, otocinclus usually
                                                                                                                                                                  prefer softer water, but as is the case with most fish, they will adapt
                                                                                                                                                                  to just about any pH as long as it's stable.

                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2135 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
                                                                                                                                                                  H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                                  Can't you suspend a light (like one of those hanging from a chain, roughly umbrella-or-so-shaped reflectors, in various sizes) over the small aquarium, far enough to avoid over-heating, and close enough to supply light to the plants?
                                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                  > Don't worry about the water from the large tank. It'll have elevated
                                                                                                                                                                  > nitrates most likely and not enough bacteria in it to make any
                                                                                                                                                                  > difference. JMO. But the media in the filtration is your lifesaver.
                                                                                                                                                                  > When you set up the tank, add dechlorinated water, 1.5 teaspoons of salt
                                                                                                                                                                  > after adding gravel and ornaments (displacing at least 1/2 a gallon of
                                                                                                                                                                  > water). Then add a couple of cool water fish, white cloud minnows would
                                                                                                                                                                  > be my choice, 3 or 4 of them to start. Place the filter catridge from
                                                                                                                                                                  > your larger tank right on top of the little blue cartridge, before the
                                                                                                                                                                  > biowheel. As long as the old cartridge has contact with the water,
                                                                                                                                                                  > it'll colonize the new tank quickly. But make sure you don't clean the
                                                                                                                                                                  > old cartridge for at least a week before transfer, leave it nice and
                                                                                                                                                                  > dirty. The light from the room will difuse nicely by the little plastic
                                                                                                                                                                  > cover. Live plants aren't an option for this tank unless the hood is
                                                                                                                                                                  > retrofitted with a light, maybe a compact 8 watter. I don't think you
                                                                                                                                                                  > can do it though. Side note, Dr. Flox of Star Trek Enterprise has those
                                                                                                                                                                  > little tank all over sick bay, nice to know Marineland is going to be
                                                                                                                                                                  > around in 200 years :-)
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2136 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Yellow water
                                                                                                                                                                  Do you have driftwood or use peat granules? Are you over feeding with
                                                                                                                                                                  colored flakes? Are you skipping water changes? Do you have live
                                                                                                                                                                  plants and maybe some leaves are decaying? Give us a few more details
                                                                                                                                                                  and we can help you better.

                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2137 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: good fish for small child's aquarium??
                                                                                                                                                                  That's a fine idea, Joe. You'd have to remove the cover, though. That
                                                                                                                                                                  should be fine if your fish aren't jumpers. Even a desk lamp should
                                                                                                                                                                  work, too. Just get one of those compact fluorescents by CoralLife that
                                                                                                                                                                  screws into a standard fixture, nice spectrum and we sell them for about
                                                                                                                                                                  10-12 bucks. Can't remember the exact price, but they are overpriced at
                                                                                                                                                                  the chain stores, Petco had them for $20. But they also charge $40 for
                                                                                                                                                                  the Little Lagoon 2.5 gallon tanks by All Glass. We ony charge $35. i
                                                                                                                                                                  suggest getting on the phone and comp shop. Wow, sorry about the
                                                                                                                                                                  tangent... I'm off today and still can't stop trying to save people
                                                                                                                                                                  money.

                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2138 From: Argisht Tamasyan Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: New group devoted to marine and fresh
                                                                                                                                                                  My new group please join, just starting a saltwater and freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                  combined group
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2139 From: hspellmen Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Yellow water
                                                                                                                                                                  There is no driftwood of peat granules. I am feeding with a colored
                                                                                                                                                                  food, could be overfeeding. Fish seem to be eating everthing, but I
                                                                                                                                                                  don't always pay attention to how much they eat.

                                                                                                                                                                  So, if it is overfeeding, how do I clear it up? Water change,
                                                                                                                                                                  vacuuming? drugs?

                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                  Phil

                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                  bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                  > Do you have driftwood or use peat granules? Are you over feeding
                                                                                                                                                                  with
                                                                                                                                                                  > colored flakes? Are you skipping water changes? Do you have live
                                                                                                                                                                  > plants and maybe some leaves are decaying? Give us a few more
                                                                                                                                                                  details
                                                                                                                                                                  > and we can help you better.
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2140 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Yellow water
                                                                                                                                                                  Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                  Relating to what 'bucks boogie'wrote, you missed 'frequency of water changes'.
                                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                  > There is no driftwood of peat granules. I am feeding with a colored
                                                                                                                                                                  > food, could be overfeeding. Fish seem to be eating everthing, but I
                                                                                                                                                                  > don't always pay attention to how much they eat.
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > So, if it is overfeeding, how do I clear it up? Water change,
                                                                                                                                                                  > vacuuming? drugs?
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > Phil
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                  > bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                  > > Do you have driftwood or use peat granules? Are you over feeding
                                                                                                                                                                  > with
                                                                                                                                                                  > > colored flakes? Are you skipping water changes? Do you have live
                                                                                                                                                                  > > plants and maybe some leaves are decaying? Give us a few more
                                                                                                                                                                  > details
                                                                                                                                                                  > > and we can help you better.
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > > "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2141 From: Sarah Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                  We are going to still stick with the fact that you don't need salt in a freshwater tank. we have 2 community tanks and never use salt. 
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 15/05/2004 20:35:08
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  so how much salt do you add? for fresh water tropical community tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2142 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                  some never do, but with fish that are prone to fungus and the like
                                                                                                                                                                  (black mollies, etc) one tablespoon per 5 gallons can really help....
                                                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                  On May 17, 2004, at 4:06 AM, Sarah wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                  > We are going to still stick with the fact that you don't need salt in
                                                                                                                                                                  > a freshwater tank. we have 2 community tanks and never use salt. 
                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                  > Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                  > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  > Date: 15/05/2004 20:35:08
                                                                                                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                  > so how much salt do you add? for fresh water tropical community tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                  > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                  > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                                                  > Service.
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                  Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                  Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2143 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                  I always add 1 tsp per gallon of salt as a disease preventative and for the osmotic benefit to the fish. Even in my community tank with tetras, corys, SAEs, etc I always add salt.

                                                                                                                                                                  Tim



                                                                                                                                                                  On 17/5/04 6:06 PM, "Sarah" <sarah@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                  We are going to still stick with the fact that you don't need salt in a freshwater tank. we have 2 community tanks and never use salt.
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                   <mailto:sales@...>
                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                  From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 15/05/2004 20:35:08
                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  so how much salt do you add? for fresh water tropical community tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                  Andreas



                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2144 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Question... Salt

                                                                                                                                                                  Its like paracetamol. Some one has a severe headache, if they don’t take a medicine, it will still get ok in a few hours, but the medicine helps get it ok faster and with less pain. If something can help, then why not use it? If one has a headache, would it be better to rely on medicines or just spend a few hours in a room that has fresh natural air with some camphor fumes to rid of the headache? Salt is like a contaminant in fresh water. it may or may not exist in many water bodies, but low concentrations really do no harm to freshwater fish unless they are allergic to it. But it can do a lot of benefits.

                                                                                                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                                  From: Sarah [mailto:sarah@...]
                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: 17 May 2004 09:07
                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  We are going to still stick with the fact that you don't need salt in a freshwater tank. we have 2 community tanks and never use salt. 

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  Sarah & Tony

                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 15/05/2004 20:35:08

                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  so how much salt do you add? for fresh water tropical community tanks?

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2145 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Can anyone help be identify this invert?
                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.apex.net.au/~twalker/DSCF0002.JPG

                                                                                                                                                                  Looks like a barnacle e.g. no curly shell.. but it is mobile with a tiny
                                                                                                                                                                  snail like scraping mouth that it is eating the algae from the glass with.

                                                                                                                                                                  As for the cory, well he just happened into the photo as I took it. I
                                                                                                                                                                  thought it was such a cool shot of him that I left it in :-)

                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks everyong
                                                                                                                                                                  Tim
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2146 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Yellow water
                                                                                                                                                                  NO DRUGS! Not trying to be a Nancy Reagan, but chemicals should be used
                                                                                                                                                                  only in extreme circumstances, ie dieing fish. Increase water changes,
                                                                                                                                                                  that should clear it up.

                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2147 From: Elyse Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Yellow water

                                                                                                                                                                  AGREED!!  Drugs an chemicals should be a last resort!

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                  Elyse & Ripley

                                                                                                                                                                  elyse@...

                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.elyserachel.com

                                                                                                                                                                  AIM: ElyseRachel

                                                                                                                                                                  MSN: ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                                  Yahoo: ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                                  Little Angel’s Rescue:

                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.littleangelsrescue.org/

                                                                                                                                                                  Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):

                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org

                                                                                                                                                                  The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:

                                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/

                                                                                                                                                                  The Tropical Fish Connection:

                                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/

                                                                                                                                                                  PetFinder:

                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.petfinder.com


                                                                                                                                                                  From: bucks_boogie@... [mailto:bucks_boogie@...]
                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Yellow water

                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                  NO DRUGS!  Not trying to be a Nancy Reagan, but chemicals should be used
                                                                                                                                                                  only in extreme circumstances, ie dieing fish.  Increase water changes,
                                                                                                                                                                  that should clear it up.

                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2148 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: baby and babies swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                  Hello all

                                                                                                                                                                  Has anyone here had swordtail fry before? When do the males get their
                                                                                                                                                                  swordtails? I have a 6 week old batch and mamma swordtail just
                                                                                                                                                                  another batch this weekend. I have swordtails coming out of my ears.
                                                                                                                                                                  LOL
                                                                                                                                                                  Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2149 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                  Sherrie,

                                                                                                                                                                  They will start getting the swords at the age of 8-12 weeks depending on the
                                                                                                                                                                  growth rate. A fully developed sword may take as long as 12-15 weeks.

                                                                                                                                                                  Nim


                                                                                                                                                                  >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                  >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@...]
                                                                                                                                                                  >Sent: 17 May 2004 21:14
                                                                                                                                                                  >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] baby and babies swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >Has anyone here had swordtail fry before? When do the males get their
                                                                                                                                                                  >swordtails? I have a 6 week old batch and mamma swordtail just
                                                                                                                                                                  >another batch this weekend. I have swordtails coming out of my ears.
                                                                                                                                                                  >LOL
                                                                                                                                                                  >Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2150 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you for info, The funny things is with the 1st batch I thought
                                                                                                                                                                  I would get about 15 to 20 babies, she had 30! Then when they were
                                                                                                                                                                  about 4 weeks old I put them my 10 gallon with an african frog and he
                                                                                                                                                                  ate about 10.( I felt so bad ) So frog went into 40gallon but wasn't
                                                                                                                                                                  doing very good in there. Seemed to be having a hard time getting to
                                                                                                                                                                  top for breath. So I put him back in with babies but he hasn't ate
                                                                                                                                                                  anymore,(that I know) Then like I said mamma swordtail had around 25
                                                                                                                                                                  more just this weekend. They are in a floating net in main tank. I
                                                                                                                                                                  have no idea what I'm going to do with all of them. LOL And she still
                                                                                                                                                                  looks like she had more inside her.
                                                                                                                                                                  my mom said she would take a few ........ yeah what about the other
                                                                                                                                                                  30 or so ! LOL
                                                                                                                                                                  also didn't think the 1st batch had grown that much till I saw the
                                                                                                                                                                  new ones saturday.

                                                                                                                                                                  Sherrie

                                                                                                                                                                  , "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                  > Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > They will start getting the swords at the age of 8-12 weeks
                                                                                                                                                                  depending on the
                                                                                                                                                                  > growth rate. A fully developed sword may take as long as 12-15
                                                                                                                                                                  weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                  > Nim

                                                                                                                                                                  > >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@l...]
                                                                                                                                                                  > >Sent: 17 May 2004 21:14
                                                                                                                                                                  > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                  > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] baby and babies
                                                                                                                                                                  swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >Has anyone here had swordtail fry before? When do the males get
                                                                                                                                                                  their
                                                                                                                                                                  > >swordtails? I have a 6 week old batch and mamma swordtail just
                                                                                                                                                                  > >another batch this weekend. I have swordtails coming out of my
                                                                                                                                                                  ears.
                                                                                                                                                                  > >LOL
                                                                                                                                                                  > >Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2151 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re : kid's aquariums and filtration switching
                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 5/17/2004 8:54:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:

                                                                                                                                                                  That's a fine idea, Joe.  You'd have to remove the cover, though.  That
                                                                                                                                                                  should be fine if your fish aren't jumpers.  Even a desk lamp should
                                                                                                                                                                  work, too.


                                                                                                                                                                  One problem with that ... I have two cats and a 4 year old boy. *grin* The youngest of the cats is still convinced that if he bats at the sides of the 'hospital tank' long enough, and from enough angles, he WILL catch whatever fish are in there. So, tank minus cover, at least in THIS house, bad idea.

                                                                                                                                                                  Kiddo should be happy with artificial plants ... she's all girly, so the brighter and more annoying to mom and dad's eyes, the happier she'll be. I've been doing more and more research on getting this 2.5 gallon tank (thanks for clarification, mom) situated ... I think what I'll end up doing, since I've JUST switched filtration methods and probably don't have enough biological stuff in the filter to help, is scoop a handful of gravel from established aquarium into the new one. Now, should the gravel from established aquarium go above or below the new gravel, or just mixed in? Knowing the little princess, she'll want some gravel that is fluorescent colored, and the gravel in the established tank is black with some fluorescent bits.

                                                                                                                                                                  As to the fish ... we've decided to get her a Betta. She loves the way they look, from all the sources I've looked at a Betta will thrive in a 2.5 gallon tank with no tank mates, where most other small fish are schooling so wouldn't be happy alone. Maybe a snail for algae control. Kinda bummed that my new more fficient filter is now too much current for a Betta ... so no Betta for MY tank.

                                                                                                                                                                  Regarding switching of filtration methods ... apparently so much junk had built up while we were using the undergravel filter, that when we switched to the TopFin Power Filter, it used up the filter cartridge after ONE WEEK. Not the month that the packaging had stated. Icky gross stuff, too. Now I'm glad we switched. Note to self ... don't shop for new aquarium stuff at WalMart, they don't know enough about the hobby to give you any decent advice. Even chain petstores do better. LOL

                                                                                                                                                                  Okay ... I've seen the canisters of activated carbon and ammonia chips ... is there any way that I could reuse the bag part of the filter media for the TopFin, after washing it or something, and pour new carbon and ammonia chips in? The refill pack came with four of the bag things, four packets of carbon, and one plastic thingie that clips it all together. (love my technical jargon here.) Those of you that DO wash your filter bags ... how much of a pain is it to do? Is it relatively easy, or am I better off spending the time that would be spent washing filter bags on something more constructive, like washing dishes? *grin* How much carbon/ammonia chips do you put in the bag when doing filter cartridge changes?

                                                                                                                                                                  I'm done badgering y'all with questions, at least for tonight.

                                                                                                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2152 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Re : kid's aquariums and filtration switching
                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                    I could'nt afford a chiller, and use overhead-lamps to light my tank. Have a 16' x 16' studio apt., with a 25,000 BTU A/C, and a 75-gallon tank. To avoid overheating 'cuz of the lamps, I have a series of 2 small, desk/clamp-on fans, one attached to a shelf next to the A/C, which moves air to another clamp-on attached to a post on my do-it-yourself-waterbed-frame, which is next to my aquarium. I still have zeolite and ammo-chips stuck in recesses of the apt. that I haven't used in over 10 years or so. Don't use it anymore. I've read stuff on the internet that I remember as a discussion among, what seemed to me, the stratospheric environs of fish-keeping, and the amount of activated-carbon mentioned was so much less than what's been recommended to me, that I think I'm still in a state of shock on the subject. As for the cats, seem you've solved your problem, but if you wanted, you could probably come up with something that would allow air-circulation, (if you wanted to keep the tank cool while using an overhead light), and also not allow the cat to disturb the tank and fish, and keep the fish safely away from the result of so-called suicidal impulses to see what's outside the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2153 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Re : kid's aquariums and filtration switching
                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                      As for the gravel seeding, the bacteria are aerobic (using oxygen), and depending upon the depth of gravel, and your circulation, the deeper the seeding, the further away from oxygen and ammonia/nitrite/etc.
                                                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                      PS
                                                                                                                                                                      In spite of my years with fish, I can't tell you what to do for anaerobic (does'nt need oxygen to metabolize) seeding. But I bought something called a NITREX-BOX that allegedly will harbor anaerobics to help with nitrate excess.
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2154 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Yellow water
                                                                                                                                                                      Don't be afraid of drugs, just don't use them :-)

                                                                                                                                                                      "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2155 From: Sarah Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      I know everyone has there own opinion just saying that we have mollies and babies, guppies, 2 sorts of tetras, neons, danios. shark, clowns. In the other tank there is just molly and guppy babies abut we have never had the need for use of salt. the only time salt comes into contact with the fish is when they do fall ill (which is very rare) they will have a salt bath, which to that we agree it makes them better faster then any product on the market to make them better. 
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Date: 17/05/2004 10:06:45
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Its like paracetamol. Some one has a severe headache, if they don’t take a medicine, it will still get ok in a few hours, but the medicine helps get it ok faster and with less pain. If something can help, then why not use it? If one has a headache, would it be better to rely on medicines or just spend a few hours in a room that has fresh natural air with some camphor fumes to rid of the headache? Salt is like a contaminant in fresh water. it may or may not exist in many water bodies, but low concentrations really do no harm to freshwater fish unless they are allergic to it. But it can do a lot of benefits.

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      From: Sarah [mailto:sarah@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 17 May 2004 09:07
                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      We are going to still stick with the fact that you don't need salt in a freshwater tank. we have 2 community tanks and never use salt. 

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Sarah & Tony

                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Date: 15/05/2004 20:35:08

                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      so how much salt do you add? for fresh water tropical community tanks?

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2156 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt

                                                                                                                                                                      Right.. I agree with this. I was under the impression that they never came under contact with salt even when fallen ill.

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      From: Sarah [mailto:sarah@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 18 May 2004 09:51
                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Question... Salt

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2157 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      salt for the fish is like a person taking a multi vitamin. you can
                                                                                                                                                                      totally get by without it, and you might not ever show ill effects,
                                                                                                                                                                      it's just better for you to have it :)
                                                                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                      On May 18, 2004, at 4:50 AM, Sarah wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      > I know everyone has there own opinion just saying that we have mollies
                                                                                                                                                                      > and babies, guppies, 2 sorts of tetras, neons, danios. shark, clowns.
                                                                                                                                                                      > In the other tank there is just molly and guppy babies abut we have
                                                                                                                                                                      > never had the need for use of salt. the only time salt comes into
                                                                                                                                                                      > contact with the fish is when they do fall ill (which is very rare)
                                                                                                                                                                      > they will have a salt bath, which to that we agree it makes them
                                                                                                                                                                      > better faster then any product on the market to make them better. 
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Date: 17/05/2004 10:06:45
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Its like paracetamol. Some one has a severe headache, if they don’t
                                                                                                                                                                      > take a medicine, it will still get ok in a few hours, but the medicine
                                                                                                                                                                      > helps get it ok faster and with less pain. If something can help, then
                                                                                                                                                                      > why not use it? If one has a headache, would it be better to rely on
                                                                                                                                                                      > medicines or just spend a few hours in a room that has fresh natural
                                                                                                                                                                      > air with some camphor fumes to rid of the headache? Salt is like a
                                                                                                                                                                      > contaminant in fresh water. it may or may not exist in many water
                                                                                                                                                                      > bodies, but low concentrations really do no harm to freshwater fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > unless they are allergic to it. But it can do a lot of benefits.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: Sarah [mailto:sarah@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: 17 May 2004 09:07
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > We are going to still stick with the fact that you don't need salt in
                                                                                                                                                                      > a freshwater tank. we have 2 community tanks and never use salt. 
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Date: 15/05/2004 20:35:08
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > so how much salt do you add? for fresh water tropical community tanks?
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                                                                                                      don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2158 From: Elyse Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt

                                                                                                                                                                      Well said!

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                      Elyse & Ripley

                                                                                                                                                                      elyse@...

                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.elyserachel.com

                                                                                                                                                                      AIM: ElyseRachel

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                                                                                                                                                                      Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):

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                                                                                                                                                                      The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:

                                                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/

                                                                                                                                                                      The Tropical Fish Connection:

                                                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/

                                                                                                                                                                      PetFinder:

                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.petfinder.com


                                                                                                                                                                      From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Question... Salt

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      salt for the fish is like a person taking a multi vitamin. you can totally get by without it, and you might not ever show ill effects, it's just better for you to have it :)
                                                                                                                                                                      amalthea

                                                                                                                                                                      On May 18, 2004, at 4:50 AM, Sarah wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      I know everyone has there own opinion just saying that we have mollies and babies, guppies, 2 sorts of tetras, neons, danios. shark, clowns. In the other tank there is just molly and guppy babies abut we have never had the need for use of salt. the only time salt comes into contact with the fish is when they do fall ill (which is very rare) they will have a salt bath, which to that we agree it makes them better faster then any product on the market to make them better. 
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com


                                                                                                                                                                      Date: 17/05/2004 10:06:45


                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com


                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Question... Salt


                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Its like paracetamol. Some one has a severe headache, if they don’t take a medicine, it will still get ok in a few hours, but the medicine helps get it ok faster and with less pain. If something can help, then why not use it? If one has a headache, would it be better to rely on medicines or just spend a few hours in a room that has fresh natural air with some camphor fumes to rid of the headache? Salt is like a contaminant in fresh water. it may or may not exist in many water bodies, but low concentrations really do no harm to freshwater fish unless they are allergic to it. But it can do a lot of benefits.

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      From: Sarah [mailto:sarah@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 17 May 2004 09:07
                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      We are going to still stick with the fact that you don't need salt in a freshwater tank. we have 2 community tanks and never use salt. 

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Sarah & Tony

                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com



                                                                                                                                                                      Date: 15/05/2004 20:35:08



                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com



                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...



                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      so how much salt do you add? for fresh water tropical community tanks?

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                       




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                                                                                                                                                                      don't be afraid to scream...

                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2159 From: David Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      Salt replaces the electrolytes in the water. This helps the gills
                                                                                                                                                                      function. The recommended doses are on the carton that the salt
                                                                                                                                                                      comes in. I just sprinkle a very little bit in every once in a while.



                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                      <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > salt for the fish is like a person taking a multi vitamin. you can
                                                                                                                                                                      > totally get by without it, and you might not ever show ill effects,
                                                                                                                                                                      > it's just better for you to have it :)
                                                                                                                                                                      > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                      > On May 18, 2004, at 4:50 AM, Sarah wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > I know everyone has there own opinion just saying that we have
                                                                                                                                                                      mollies
                                                                                                                                                                      > > and babies, guppies, 2 sorts of tetras, neons, danios. shark,
                                                                                                                                                                      clowns.
                                                                                                                                                                      > > In the other tank there is just molly and guppy babies abut we
                                                                                                                                                                      have
                                                                                                                                                                      > > never had the need for use of salt. the only time salt comes into
                                                                                                                                                                      > > contact with the fish is when they do fall ill (which is very
                                                                                                                                                                      rare)
                                                                                                                                                                      > > they will have a salt bath, which to that we agree it makes them
                                                                                                                                                                      > > better faster then any product on the market to make them better. 
                                                                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Date: 17/05/2004 10:06:45
                                                                                                                                                                      > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Its like paracetamol. Some one has a severe headache, if they
                                                                                                                                                                      don't
                                                                                                                                                                      > > take a medicine, it will still get ok in a few hours, but the
                                                                                                                                                                      medicine
                                                                                                                                                                      > > helps get it ok faster and with less pain. If something can help,
                                                                                                                                                                      then
                                                                                                                                                                      > > why not use it? If one has a headache, would it be better to rely
                                                                                                                                                                      on
                                                                                                                                                                      > > medicines or just spend a few hours in a room that has fresh
                                                                                                                                                                      natural
                                                                                                                                                                      > > air with some camphor fumes to rid of the headache? Salt is like
                                                                                                                                                                      a
                                                                                                                                                                      > > contaminant in fresh water. it may or may not exist in many water
                                                                                                                                                                      > > bodies, but low concentrations really do no harm to freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                      fish
                                                                                                                                                                      > > unless they are allergic to it. But it can do a lot of benefits.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > From: Sarah [mailto:sarah@f...]
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Sent: 17 May 2004 09:07
                                                                                                                                                                      > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >  
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > We are going to still stick with the fact that you don't need
                                                                                                                                                                      salt in
                                                                                                                                                                      > > a freshwater tank. we have 2 community tanks and never use salt. 
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >  
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                                                                                                                                                                      > > -------Original Message-------
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                                                                                                                                                                      > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Date: 15/05/2004 20:35:08
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                                                                                                                                                                      > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question...
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
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                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > so how much salt do you add? for fresh water tropical community
                                                                                                                                                                      tanks?
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2160 From: Snerticus Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      Hi, I'm new, just got invited. Although I've had fish for approx 20
                                                                                                                                                                      years on and off (both fresh and salt)I haven't been active in any
                                                                                                                                                                      fish keeping for a few years. My latest endeavor was breeding
                                                                                                                                                                      Bettas a few years ago, which I miss terribly, but neither have the
                                                                                                                                                                      time to spend on the hobby anymore and have moved with no room to
                                                                                                                                                                      keep up with it. I still have one female Betta from my first
                                                                                                                                                                      breeding and she is healthy and about five years old.

                                                                                                                                                                      I noticed this thread about salt. No, you absolutely do not need
                                                                                                                                                                      salt in an aquarium. However, salt is present in nearly any body of
                                                                                                                                                                      water in some form or another, whether it be the plain "table salt"
                                                                                                                                                                      (or NaCl - sodium chloride) everyone refers to here or salts
                                                                                                                                                                      composed of other elements. I have found throughout the years that
                                                                                                                                                                      salt inhibits formation of a lot of bad elements in a fish tank or
                                                                                                                                                                      bowl. I use a pinch of aquarium salt everytime I change my Betta's
                                                                                                                                                                      water. I noticed dropsy was rampant in bowls without the salt while
                                                                                                                                                                      breeding and maintaining my Bettas. There is naturally salt found
                                                                                                                                                                      in a fish's body, as in ours and all animals. The concentration is
                                                                                                                                                                      0.9%. That is why fluids for man and animals in human and
                                                                                                                                                                      veterinary hospitals use this solution, among others, to hydrate and
                                                                                                                                                                      supplement.

                                                                                                                                                                      That being said, the salt in the water, in the proper portions,
                                                                                                                                                                      (ideally 0.9%)will help the kidneys work less keeping the osmotic
                                                                                                                                                                      balance in check.

                                                                                                                                                                      If you have problems understanding the above, don't worry :)! All
                                                                                                                                                                      you need to know is that a fish's tissues naturally have salt in
                                                                                                                                                                      them and if the water does too in nearly the same amounts, it's
                                                                                                                                                                      better for the fish's health.

                                                                                                                                                                      If you haven't used salt in the past and everything is fine, then
                                                                                                                                                                      the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it" will probably be best
                                                                                                                                                                      followed. However, if you start running into water quality problems
                                                                                                                                                                      or chronic disease, I would just add salt according to the box of
                                                                                                                                                                      aquarium salt. You can always adjust it later. Also, a few fish are
                                                                                                                                                                      sensitive when too much salt is present (as I believe corydoras
                                                                                                                                                                      catfish), so I would always start a little below the recommended
                                                                                                                                                                      dosage on the box, just to be safe.

                                                                                                                                                                      Sorry about the rambling, but I thought maybe someone could use this
                                                                                                                                                                      info. :)

                                                                                                                                                                      Good luck!

                                                                                                                                                                      Snert
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2161 From: Cyndy Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Question..
                                                                                                                                                                      I added the salt and aquisol and took out my carbon filter. I have
                                                                                                                                                                      noticed the 2 white spots on my Betta have faded...but they are still
                                                                                                                                                                      there. What is this? This isn't how Ich acts, is it? Could it be
                                                                                                                                                                      an injury to some scales? My one tetra is still swimming tipped...it
                                                                                                                                                                      appears to be the only thing wrong with him. He eats okay, stay with
                                                                                                                                                                      the group and is there every morning when I get up. I wonder if that
                                                                                                                                                                      is an injury and if he can get better.

                                                                                                                                                                      ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2162 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question..
                                                                                                                                                                      give him another cycle of treatment and keep an eye on it, he could
                                                                                                                                                                      have irritation. also, monitor his behavior closely, that's always
                                                                                                                                                                      important!
                                                                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                      On May 18, 2004, at 3:36 PM, Cyndy wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      > I added the salt and aquisol and took out my carbon filter.  I have
                                                                                                                                                                      > noticed the 2 white spots on my Betta have faded...but they are still
                                                                                                                                                                      > there.  What is this?  This isn't how Ich acts, is it?  Could it be
                                                                                                                                                                      > an injury to some scales?  My one tetra is still swimming tipped...it
                                                                                                                                                                      > appears to be the only thing wrong with him.  He eats okay, stay with
                                                                                                                                                                      > the group and is there every morning when I get up.  I wonder if that
                                                                                                                                                                      > is an injury and if he can get better.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > ~Cyndy
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2163 From: Todd Fields Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      --- Snerticus <Snerticus@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      > Also, a few fish are
                                                                                                                                                                      > sensitive when too much salt is present (as I
                                                                                                                                                                      > believe corydoras
                                                                                                                                                                      > catfish), so I would always start a little below the
                                                                                                                                                                      > recommended
                                                                                                                                                                      > dosage on the box, just to be safe.

                                                                                                                                                                      Do you know if a Kulii Loach would fall into the
                                                                                                                                                                      category of sensitive to salt? Also, what about a
                                                                                                                                                                      African Dwarf Frog? Thanks, this was great info.




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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2164 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      i have always had kuhli loaches with salt and they seem super happy to
                                                                                                                                                                      me :)
                                                                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                      On May 18, 2004, at 3:34 PM, Todd Fields wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- Snerticus <Snerticus@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Also, a few fish are
                                                                                                                                                                      > > sensitive when too much salt is present (as I
                                                                                                                                                                      > > believe corydoras
                                                                                                                                                                      > > catfish), so I would always start a little below the
                                                                                                                                                                      > > recommended
                                                                                                                                                                      > > dosage on the box, just to be safe.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Do you know if a Kulii Loach would fall into the
                                                                                                                                                                      > category of sensitive to salt?  Also, what about a
                                                                                                                                                                      > African Dwarf Frog?  Thanks, this was great info.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >      
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                                                                                                                                                                      don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2165 From: Todd Fields Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > i have always had kuhli loaches with salt and they
                                                                                                                                                                      > seem super happy to
                                                                                                                                                                      > me :)


                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks. Anyone know how the African Dwarf Frog reacts
                                                                                                                                                                      with salt? Also, forgot to ask, what about things
                                                                                                                                                                      like snails or ghost shrimp?




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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2166 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      i also keep snails and crayfish with salt :)
                                                                                                                                                                      (my fish gobble up ghost shrimp before i could possibly gauge their
                                                                                                                                                                      reaction to salt)
                                                                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                      On May 18, 2004, at 3:54 PM, Todd Fields wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > i have always had kuhli loaches with salt and they
                                                                                                                                                                      > > seem super happy to
                                                                                                                                                                      > > me :)
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Thanks.  Anyone know how the African Dwarf Frog reacts
                                                                                                                                                                      > with salt?  Also, forgot to ask, what about things
                                                                                                                                                                      > like snails or ghost shrimp?
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2167 From: secretlaw Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Chchlids for sale?
                                                                                                                                                                      Hi
                                                                                                                                                                      I am looking for some peacocks cichlids for sale, prefer fry.
                                                                                                                                                                      thanks
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2168 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Question... Salt I don’t know if it’s a fishy myth or not but I believe FW snails don’t particularly love the salt. It wont kill them unless it’s extremely stong and has the benefit of slowing down their reproduction – which with most snails is a Good Thing.

                                                                                                                                                                      Tim


                                                                                                                                                                      On 19/5/04 5:54 AM, "Todd Fields" <jtfields91@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                      --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > i have always had kuhli loaches with salt and they
                                                                                                                                                                      > seem super happy to
                                                                                                                                                                      > me :)


                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks.  Anyone know how the African Dwarf Frog reacts
                                                                                                                                                                      with salt?  Also, forgot to ask, what about things
                                                                                                                                                                      like snails or ghost shrimp?


                                                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                                                                  
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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2169 From: Julie Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      Can't speak for the frogs or snails, but our ghost shrimp seem to suffer no ill effects from the salt we add.  We go by the pkg suggestion.
                                                                                                                                                                      julie
                                                                                                                                                                      Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                                                                      I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.


                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks.  Anyone know how the African Dwarf Frog reacts
                                                                                                                                                                      with salt?  Also, forgot to ask, what about things
                                                                                                                                                                      like snails or ghost shrimp?


                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2170 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                      Hi Snert,

                                                                                                                                                                      No Shared information is a waste, it helps everybody
                                                                                                                                                                      in one way or the other and so keep it comming and
                                                                                                                                                                      sharing ur valuable experience....SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                      --- Snerticus <Snerticus@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      > Hi, I'm new, just got invited. Although I've had
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish for approx 20
                                                                                                                                                                      > years on and off (both fresh and salt)I haven't been
                                                                                                                                                                      > active in any
                                                                                                                                                                      > fish keeping for a few years. My latest endeavor
                                                                                                                                                                      > was breeding
                                                                                                                                                                      > Bettas a few years ago, which I miss terribly, but
                                                                                                                                                                      > neither have the
                                                                                                                                                                      > time to spend on the hobby anymore and have moved
                                                                                                                                                                      > with no room to
                                                                                                                                                                      > keep up with it. I still have one female Betta from
                                                                                                                                                                      > my first
                                                                                                                                                                      > breeding and she is healthy and about five years
                                                                                                                                                                      > old.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > I noticed this thread about salt. No, you
                                                                                                                                                                      > absolutely do not need
                                                                                                                                                                      > salt in an aquarium. However, salt is present in
                                                                                                                                                                      > nearly any body of
                                                                                                                                                                      > water in some form or another, whether it be the
                                                                                                                                                                      > plain "table salt"
                                                                                                                                                                      > (or NaCl - sodium chloride) everyone refers to here
                                                                                                                                                                      > or salts
                                                                                                                                                                      > composed of other elements. I have found throughout
                                                                                                                                                                      > the years that
                                                                                                                                                                      > salt inhibits formation of a lot of bad elements in
                                                                                                                                                                      > a fish tank or
                                                                                                                                                                      > bowl. I use a pinch of aquarium salt everytime I
                                                                                                                                                                      > change my Betta's
                                                                                                                                                                      > water. I noticed dropsy was rampant in bowls
                                                                                                                                                                      > without the salt while
                                                                                                                                                                      > breeding and maintaining my Bettas. There is
                                                                                                                                                                      > naturally salt found
                                                                                                                                                                      > in a fish's body, as in ours and all animals. The
                                                                                                                                                                      > concentration is
                                                                                                                                                                      > 0.9%. That is why fluids for man and animals in
                                                                                                                                                                      > human and
                                                                                                                                                                      > veterinary hospitals use this solution, among
                                                                                                                                                                      > others, to hydrate and
                                                                                                                                                                      > supplement.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > That being said, the salt in the water, in the
                                                                                                                                                                      > proper portions,
                                                                                                                                                                      > (ideally 0.9%)will help the kidneys work less
                                                                                                                                                                      > keeping the osmotic
                                                                                                                                                                      > balance in check.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > If you have problems understanding the above, don't
                                                                                                                                                                      > worry :)! All
                                                                                                                                                                      > you need to know is that a fish's tissues naturally
                                                                                                                                                                      > have salt in
                                                                                                                                                                      > them and if the water does too in nearly the same
                                                                                                                                                                      > amounts, it's
                                                                                                                                                                      > better for the fish's health.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > If you haven't used salt in the past and everything
                                                                                                                                                                      > is fine, then
                                                                                                                                                                      > the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it" will
                                                                                                                                                                      > probably be best
                                                                                                                                                                      > followed. However, if you start running into water
                                                                                                                                                                      > quality problems
                                                                                                                                                                      > or chronic disease, I would just add salt according
                                                                                                                                                                      > to the box of
                                                                                                                                                                      > aquarium salt. You can always adjust it later.
                                                                                                                                                                      > Also, a few fish are
                                                                                                                                                                      > sensitive when too much salt is present (as I
                                                                                                                                                                      > believe corydoras
                                                                                                                                                                      > catfish), so I would always start a little below the
                                                                                                                                                                      > recommended
                                                                                                                                                                      > dosage on the box, just to be safe.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Sorry about the rambling, but I thought maybe
                                                                                                                                                                      > someone could use this
                                                                                                                                                                      > info. :)
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Good luck!
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Snert
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      >





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                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2171 From: Benedick Mark N. Chan Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: hong kong pleco
                                                                                                                                                                      Hello everyone!
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      I've just went to our LFS and I am amazed by the appearance of a Hong Kong pleco (sort of like a tiny manta ray). Does anyone have one of them? If so, is it a hardy fish?
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      A website abt hong kong pleco:
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      -Ben-
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2172 From: Dorothy Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: question about salt
                                                                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                      I received an invitation to join this club and I would like to
                                                                                                                                                                      introduce myself. My name is Dorothy and I am still learning about
                                                                                                                                                                      aquariums and fish keeping.I have 2 30 gallon tanks. I probably won't
                                                                                                                                                                      have much to contribute but, I will be learning from all of you.
                                                                                                                                                                      Hopefully someday I will be experienced enough to help some members.I
                                                                                                                                                                      wondered if salt would help to cure my jack dempsey female.I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                      jack dempseys,1 convict,2 algae eaters, and 14 baby jack dempseys.My
                                                                                                                                                                      male and female had the babies, took turns taking care of them, and
                                                                                                                                                                      got along fine. I have no idea why, but, the male beat up the female.
                                                                                                                                                                      When I discovered it, she was a dull gray color,had torn fins, and
                                                                                                                                                                      looked half-dead. I don't have a spare tank, so I temporarily put her
                                                                                                                                                                      in a breeder's net. Today my husband cut plexi glass for me to use as
                                                                                                                                                                      a divider. She looks much better now. Her beautiful colors have come
                                                                                                                                                                      back. She is eating. I put the convict in with her, since the male
                                                                                                                                                                      jack dempsey would never let him go anywhere but the top of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                      They are doing fine together, The male and the babies are on the
                                                                                                                                                                      other side of the tank. Any suggestions on what I can do to help her
                                                                                                                                                                      fins? I am afraid she might get a fungus or some kind of disease from
                                                                                                                                                                      the bites on her side. I did add a tablespoon of salt. Hoping this
                                                                                                                                                                      might help. Thanks for any suggestions I might get.
                                                                                                                                                                      Dorothy
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2173 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: hong kong pleco

                                                                                                                                                                      Ben,

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      It is actually a Hillstream loach and not a pleco. Some people call it the stone sucker also. It is a hardy fish but prefers cold water aquaria.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                      From: Benedick Mark N. Chan [mailto:bmchan@...]
                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 19 May 2004 04:48
                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] hong kong pleco

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Hello everyone!

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      I've just went to our LFS and I am amazed by the appearance of a Hong Kong pleco (sort of like a tiny manta ray). Does anyone have one of them? If so, is it a hardy fish?

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      A website abt hong kong pleco:

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                      -Ben-



                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2174 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switching
                                                                                                                                                                      Kiddo should be happy with artificial plants ... she's all girly, so the brighter and more annoying to mom and dad's eyes, the happier she'll be. I've been doing more and more research on getting this 2.5 gallon tank (thanks for clarification, mom) situated ... I think what I'll end up doing, since I've JUST switched filtration methods and probably don't have enough biological stuff in the filter to help, is scoop a handful of gravel from established aquarium into the new one. Now, should the gravel from established aquarium go above or below the new gravel, or just mixed in? Knowing the little princess, she'll want some gravel that is fluorescent colored, and the gravel in the established tank is black with some fluorescent bits.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      My ex recently received a used 10g tank and over the upcoming long weekend I'll be helping my girls set up the tank. Their choices in artificial plants and gravel color should be interesting as well. My oldest son chose natural colored gravel for his tank and green silk plants; I just got a smile out of his additions of a plastic shark, American flag, and 'no fishing' sign :)

                                                                                                                                                                      As to the fish ... we've decided to get her a Betta. She loves the way they look, from all the sources I've looked at a Betta will thrive in a 2.5 gallon tank with no tank mates, where most other small fish are schooling so wouldn't be happy alone. Maybe a snail for algae control. Kinda bummed that my new more fficient filter is now too much current for a Betta ... so no Betta for MY tank.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      A betta will love that size tank!

                                                                                                                                                                      Okay ... I've seen the canisters of activated carbon and ammonia chips ... is there any way that I could reuse the bag part of the filter media for the TopFin, after washing it or something, and pour new carbon and ammonia chips in? The refill pack came with four of the bag things, four packets of carbon, and one plastic thingie that clips it all together. (love my technical jargon here.) Those of you that DO wash your filter bags ... how much of a pain is it to do? Is it relatively easy, or am I better off spending the time that would be spent washing filter bags on something more constructive, like washing dishes? *grin* How much carbon/ammonia chips do you put in the bag when doing filter cartridge changes?
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      IMHO I don't think those packets of carbon are enough and always add more (I use a carbon/zeolite mix). I don't go overboard on washing the bag, just a really good rinse. And no hot water.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2175 From: Cyndy Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Question #2
                                                                                                                                                                      Has anyone dealt with swim bladder problems? I think the spots on my
                                                                                                                                                                      Betta or okay now (thank you all) but my neon tetra is almost
                                                                                                                                                                      swimming vertically now. I feel very sad for him. Can I fix this?
                                                                                                                                                                      No one else is having any issues.

                                                                                                                                                                      ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2176 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question #2
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Question #2
                                                                                                                                                                      Have you tried feeding peas yet?? Defrost some frozen, squeeze out the inner pea, and then put small bits in your aquarium for the fish to eat. If it’s truly a swim bladder problem then this can help.

                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                      Tim

                                                                                                                                                                      On 20/5/04 6:47 AM, "Cyndy" <cynthiamckee@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                      Has anyone dealt with swim bladder problems?  I think the spots on my
                                                                                                                                                                      Betta or okay now (thank you all) but my neon tetra is almost
                                                                                                                                                                      swimming vertically now.  I feel very sad for him.  Can I fix this?  
                                                                                                                                                                      No one else is having any issues.

                                                                                                                                                                      ~Cyndy



                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Groups Links


                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2177 From: Matt Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                                                      My third angel died yesterday.  Theya re such beautiful fish.  Why do they die?  Does anyone else have this problem?  If not, how long have you had your Angels?  He was perfectly well only the very night before - he was even coming up to the top to feed as he had been doing for weeks now as he'd grown more used to me.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Very disappointed.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      Matt.
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                      "Without Love We All Perish."
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2178 From: Cyndy Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Question #2
                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks! I'll give it a try when I get home.

                                                                                                                                                                      ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Tim Walker
                                                                                                                                                                      <twalker@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Have you tried feeding peas yet?? Defrost some frozen, squeeze out
                                                                                                                                                                      the inner
                                                                                                                                                                      > pea, and then put small bits in your aquarium for the fish to eat.
                                                                                                                                                                      If it¹s
                                                                                                                                                                      > truly a swim bladder problem then this can help.
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > Cheers
                                                                                                                                                                      > Tim
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > On 20/5/04 6:47 AM, "Cyndy" <cynthiamckee@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Has anyone dealt with swim bladder problems? I think the spots
                                                                                                                                                                      on my
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Betta or okay now (thank you all) but my neon tetra is almost
                                                                                                                                                                      > > swimming vertically now. I feel very sad for him. Can I fix
                                                                                                                                                                      this?
                                                                                                                                                                      > > No one else is having any issues.
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                      > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                      > > *
                                                                                                                                                                      > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                      > > * FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                      > > <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-
                                                                                                                                                                      unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns
                                                                                                                                                                      > > ubscribe>
                                                                                                                                                                      > > *
                                                                                                                                                                      > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                                                      Service
                                                                                                                                                                      > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2179 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 218
                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 5/19/2004 12:27:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:

                                                                                                                                                                      IMHO I don't think those packets of carbon are enough and always add more (I use a carbon/zeolite mix). I don't go overboard on washing the bag, just a really good rinse. And no hot water.


                                                                                                                                                                      Does this work for the spongey - flossy bags, as well as the fine mesh? I've been perusing this "Doctors Foster & Smith" catalogue for the past few days, to the point my husband keeps saying "Would you quit drooling over the fish catalogue already?" ... and they have several types of filter media bags. They have fine mesh ones, that it appears you would use in addition to whatever media your brand of filter requires, and they have the spongey flossy ones also.

                                                                                                                                                                      I figured maybe I'd be able to save some cash in the long run by reusing the bags and just buying the carbon ... but wasn't sure how much use those bags can handle, or how much carbon/ammonia chips whatever for tank size should be used.

                                                                                                                                                                      I'm learning loads from being part of the group, thanks to everyone for answering my many questions!

                                                                                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2180 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Angefishl/es dying
                                                                                                                                                                      H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                                      I don't know anything about Angelfish, short of being given a few from
                                                                                                                                                                      an LFS proprietor in trade for Corydoras a few years ago. I lost them
                                                                                                                                                                      shortly, but the other fish I'd kept over the years: Coradora Aeneus mostly,
                                                                                                                                                                      Ottosynschlus', and Plattys', I had I imagine, enough success with that
                                                                                                                                                                      they bred. Some so profusely (the Plattys), that I gave up keeping them. I'd
                                                                                                                                                                      be running something the size of the 'National-Aquarium" by now, with
                                                                                                                                                                      nothing but Plattys'. . A short period with black and yellow Mollies', (I
                                                                                                                                                                      only had a pair in a 20 gallon tank), the male of which ran the Female
                                                                                                                                                                      absolutely ragged with attention, to the tune of keeping her continuously
                                                                                                                                                                      pregnant. He wore himself out too with all that attention, and both
                                                                                                                                                                      eventually died. I stopped trying Mollies', thinking there was more too
                                                                                                                                                                      attending to them than I felt I could accomodate. I did'nt try Angelfish
                                                                                                                                                                      again either, since amidst success with Corys and Plattys', I felt Angels
                                                                                                                                                                      also needed much more attention than I was willing to give.
                                                                                                                                                                      Here's a link with a reference to, among other things, water conditions;

                                                                                                                                                                      http://websvirginia.com/angels/sick/index.htm

                                                                                                                                                                      What I've read since seeing your posts about
                                                                                                                                                                      dying Angelfish, confirms my feeling, that to keep them successfully, you
                                                                                                                                                                      must pay special attention to Angelfish.
                                                                                                                                                                      If you want to browse through copious materials about Angelfish, try
                                                                                                                                                                      Angelfish in Google, along with relevant words like;
                                                                                                                                                                      care, breeding, health, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2181 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: wounded mollie!
                                                                                                                                                                      I'm noticing that I'm going through a LOT of melafix lately ... first my babies who've lost all of their slime coat and started getting sores (and are now quarantined to be medicated) ... and now one of my adult mollies has a wound on her mouth. Yesterday I caught her in the act of stealing an algae tablet LITERALLY right from under the nose of my plecostamus. So I could guess that the plecostamus got her back if she stuck her mouth up to his mouth again. I don't see any other way she could have gotten it.

                                                                                                                                                                      So should I put her with the babies, who I have not figured out if what they've got is contagious or not? Or should I leave her in main tank and just remove carbon from the filter, and put yet more Melafix in the tank?

                                                                                                                                                                      Since I'm on daily digest, I'll check at groups page for replies. I've got to go pare down some of my yahoo groups anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2182 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: replacement filter bags
                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                        H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                                        I've used 'UNDYED' white, nylon stockings for years, to hold activated carbon. The label must indicate 100%-nylon. (no organic such as cotton, etc.) I cut them to size and knot the end. You can make a number of bags, depending on size needed.
                                                                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2183 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question #2
                                                                                                                                                                        hi Cyndy,

                                                                                                                                                                        There are three main things according to the posts and
                                                                                                                                                                        articles I've read that can lead to swimbladder
                                                                                                                                                                        disease.

                                                                                                                                                                        Constipation due to overfeeding
                                                                                                                                                                        Bad water quality
                                                                                                                                                                        Bacteria

                                                                                                                                                                        After your water change you should not feed your fish
                                                                                                                                                                        any food for two days. On the third day feed your fish
                                                                                                                                                                        a fresh pea. Frozen peas thawed, popped out of the
                                                                                                                                                                        skin, and cut into bite size pieces. And then do
                                                                                                                                                                        another water change so that any uneaten peas do not
                                                                                                                                                                        contaminate your water....
                                                                                                                                                                        If you do partials, or have a tank, do a significant
                                                                                                                                                                        change when you suspect swimbladder disease and then
                                                                                                                                                                        follow this treatment.
                                                                                                                                                                        If you don't use aquarium salt this is a good addition
                                                                                                                                                                        to most tanks. The recommended dose is one teaspoon
                                                                                                                                                                        per gallon, or one tablespoon per five gallons. If you
                                                                                                                                                                        have never added salt and you are unsure; you may want
                                                                                                                                                                        to first acclimate him at only 1/2 tsp per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                        If this seems to be a frequent problem you may
                                                                                                                                                                        consider feeding less. Your water quality could
                                                                                                                                                                        indicate more frequent water changes, or in my case I
                                                                                                                                                                        break up the food for this one particular betta. It
                                                                                                                                                                        seems easier for him to digest. All my fish seem to
                                                                                                                                                                        love the peas and it may be of great benifit to feed a
                                                                                                                                                                        pea once a week.

                                                                                                                                                                        If you suspect that there is bacteria causing the
                                                                                                                                                                        symptoms of swimbladder perhaps antibotics may be
                                                                                                                                                                        needed.

                                                                                                                                                                        Hope this helps and keep us posted...SuNnY !



                                                                                                                                                                        --- Cyndy <cynthiamckee@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > Has anyone dealt with swim bladder problems? I
                                                                                                                                                                        > think the spots on my
                                                                                                                                                                        > Betta or okay now (thank you all) but my neon tetra
                                                                                                                                                                        > is almost
                                                                                                                                                                        > swimming vertically now. I feel very sad for him.
                                                                                                                                                                        > Can I fix this?
                                                                                                                                                                        > No one else is having any issues.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >





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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2184 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Matt,

                                                                                                                                                                        Sorry about ur loss, yup angels are a very beautiful
                                                                                                                                                                        fish. They need very good water quality but once they
                                                                                                                                                                        get accustumed to your local water then they thrive
                                                                                                                                                                        there very well.

                                                                                                                                                                        Can you please advise what were the symptoms. I have
                                                                                                                                                                        been keeping and breeding angles for the past couple
                                                                                                                                                                        of years and have been quite successful at it.

                                                                                                                                                                        If you give me some details about your tank, water
                                                                                                                                                                        conditions, tank mates and wather changes, temp etc
                                                                                                                                                                        then may be i could help y ou with what knowledge i
                                                                                                                                                                        have.... though there are many more well informed and
                                                                                                                                                                        expert guys here..

                                                                                                                                                                        ...SuNnY !



                                                                                                                                                                        --- Matt <mrwb@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > My third angel died yesterday. Theya re such
                                                                                                                                                                        > beautiful fish. Why do they die? Does anyone else
                                                                                                                                                                        > have this problem? If not, how long have you had
                                                                                                                                                                        > your Angels? He was perfectly well only the very
                                                                                                                                                                        > night before - he was even coming up to the top to
                                                                                                                                                                        > feed as he had been doing for weeks now as he'd
                                                                                                                                                                        > grown more used to me.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Very disappointed.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Matt.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > "Without Love We All Perish."





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                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Domains � Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2185 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: filters
                                                                                                                                                                        Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        I use the spongey-floss-type bags, if by that you mean the type that come with the replacement filters :) I add the replacement packet of carbon and just under the recommended 1/2 cup/10g.
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Foster & Smith is a nice catalog. You can also get one from http://www.bigalsonline.com/splash.html 
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                        Does this work for the spongey - flossy bags, as well as the fine mesh? I've been perusing this "Doctors Foster & Smith" catalogue for the past few days, to the point my husband keeps saying "Would you quit drooling over the fish catalogue already?" ... and they have several types of filter media bags. They have fine mesh ones, that it appears you would use in addition to whatever media your brand of filter requires, and they have the spongey flossy ones also.

                                                                                                                                                                        I figured maybe I'd be able to save some cash in the long run by reusing the bags and just buying the carbon ... but wasn't sure how much use those bags can handle, or how much carbon/ammonia chips whatever for tank size should be used.

                                                                                                                                                                        I'm learning loads from being part of the group, thanks to everyone for answering my many questions!

                                                                                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2186 From: Cyndy Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question #2
                                                                                                                                                                        He seems a little better today. He is starting to right himself. I
                                                                                                                                                                        read on a website that too instensive water changes might cause
                                                                                                                                                                        this. Think that is true? I do about a 40% water change every
                                                                                                                                                                        week...sometimes even twice a week. I wonder if I am adversely
                                                                                                                                                                        effecting my fish by doing this. About 3 months ago, I had my Betta
                                                                                                                                                                        die and a couple of corycats die and I'm feeling like it's because I
                                                                                                                                                                        didn't watch the water quality close enough.

                                                                                                                                                                        ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                                                                                                                                                        <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > hi Cyndy,
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > There are three main things according to the posts and
                                                                                                                                                                        > articles I've read that can lead to swimbladder
                                                                                                                                                                        > disease.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Constipation due to overfeeding
                                                                                                                                                                        > Bad water quality
                                                                                                                                                                        > Bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > After your water change you should not feed your fish
                                                                                                                                                                        > any food for two days. On the third day feed your fish
                                                                                                                                                                        > a fresh pea. Frozen peas thawed, popped out of the
                                                                                                                                                                        > skin, and cut into bite size pieces. And then do
                                                                                                                                                                        > another water change so that any uneaten peas do not
                                                                                                                                                                        > contaminate your water....
                                                                                                                                                                        > If you do partials, or have a tank, do a significant
                                                                                                                                                                        > change when you suspect swimbladder disease and then
                                                                                                                                                                        > follow this treatment.
                                                                                                                                                                        > If you don't use aquarium salt this is a good addition
                                                                                                                                                                        > to most tanks. The recommended dose is one teaspoon
                                                                                                                                                                        > per gallon, or one tablespoon per five gallons. If you
                                                                                                                                                                        > have never added salt and you are unsure; you may want
                                                                                                                                                                        > to first acclimate him at only 1/2 tsp per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                        > If this seems to be a frequent problem you may
                                                                                                                                                                        > consider feeding less. Your water quality could
                                                                                                                                                                        > indicate more frequent water changes, or in my case I
                                                                                                                                                                        > break up the food for this one particular betta. It
                                                                                                                                                                        > seems easier for him to digest. All my fish seem to
                                                                                                                                                                        > love the peas and it may be of great benifit to feed a
                                                                                                                                                                        > pea once a week.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > If you suspect that there is bacteria causing the
                                                                                                                                                                        > symptoms of swimbladder perhaps antibotics may be
                                                                                                                                                                        > needed.
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > Hope this helps and keep us posted...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > --- Cyndy <cynthiamckee@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Has anyone dealt with swim bladder problems? I
                                                                                                                                                                        > > think the spots on my
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Betta or okay now (thank you all) but my neon tetra
                                                                                                                                                                        > > is almost
                                                                                                                                                                        > > swimming vertically now. I feel very sad for him.
                                                                                                                                                                        > > Can I fix this?
                                                                                                                                                                        > > No one else is having any issues.
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > > ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                        > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year
                                                                                                                                                                        > http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2187 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                        Well said Snert. I use the same arguments all the time when explaining
                                                                                                                                                                        to customers the need for salt. And welcome to the board, Rob.

                                                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2188 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question..
                                                                                                                                                                        What temp do you keep it? The cysts will continue to protect the
                                                                                                                                                                        parasite unless brought up to 84* at which point it can't maintain and
                                                                                                                                                                        or form.

                                                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2189 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                        We are currently having this discussion on my Clawed Frog board. A
                                                                                                                                                                        rounded tbsp of salt (Aquarium, kosher, canning and only occasionally
                                                                                                                                                                        table) per 5 gallons isn't even able to register a reading on a
                                                                                                                                                                        hydrometer. Marine tanks on the other hand give a reading of 1.023 with
                                                                                                                                                                        the addition of 2.5 cups. Big difference, but vital to long term
                                                                                                                                                                        health. Using salt has doubled the lifespan of my fish and in some
                                                                                                                                                                        cases tripled it. And as Snert has pointed out, bloat no longer becomes
                                                                                                                                                                        a problem, especially in older fish, because they drink, preventing
                                                                                                                                                                        constipation.

                                                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2190 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Question... Salt
                                                                                                                                                                        So, as I forgot to state, salt at these levels are not harmful to any
                                                                                                                                                                        fish.

                                                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2191 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hong kong pleco
                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                          they are very 50/50 - a lot of them die within the first six
                                                                                                                                                                          months(apparently) we also have a high death rate in the shop... im
                                                                                                                                                                          still trying to find out why.
                                                                                                                                                                          You also have to have a *very* secure tank lid as they squeeze out of
                                                                                                                                                                          the smallest of spaces... they are not in it for the species;)

                                                                                                                                                                          Aileen


                                                                                                                                                                          On 19 May 2004, at 04:47, Benedick Mark N. Chan wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                          > Hello everyone!
                                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                                          > I've just went to our LFS and I am amazed by the appearance of a Hong
                                                                                                                                                                          > Kong pleco (sort of like a tiny manta ray). Does anyone have one of
                                                                                                                                                                          > them? If so, is it a hardy fish?
                                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                                          > A website abt hong kong pleco:
                                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.petresources.net/fish/cyprinid/bea_kwe.html
                                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                                          > -Ben-
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                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2192 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: question about salt
                                                                                                                                                                          30 gallons for Dempsy's is a little small. I don't think there going to
                                                                                                                                                                          be happy as a pair unless they have room to get away from each other
                                                                                                                                                                          once in a while.

                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2193 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switching
                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                            just a quickie: Bettas are surprisingly hardy in filtered water - it
                                                                                                                                                                            can take a couple of tdays for them to build up their strength, but I
                                                                                                                                                                            have found that all of mine - males esp, actually enjoy swimming
                                                                                                                                                                            against the current in the strongest parts - even when there are still
                                                                                                                                                                            areas for them to swim in, so it could be possible to keep one
                                                                                                                                                                            yourself:)

                                                                                                                                                                            Aileen


                                                                                                                                                                            On 19 May 2004, at 07:50, Dan & Theresa wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                            > Kiddo should be happy with artificial plants ... she's all girly, so
                                                                                                                                                                            > the brighter and more annoying to mom and dad's eyes, the happier
                                                                                                                                                                            > she'll be. I've been doing more and more research on getting this 2.5
                                                                                                                                                                            > gallon tank (thanks for clarification, mom) situated ... I think what
                                                                                                                                                                            > I'll end up doing, since I've JUST switched filtration methods and
                                                                                                                                                                            > probably don't have enough biological stuff in the filter to help, is
                                                                                                                                                                            > scoop a handful of gravel from established aquarium into the new one.
                                                                                                                                                                            > Now, should the gravel from established aquarium go above or below the
                                                                                                                                                                            > new gravel, or just mixed in? Knowing the little princess, she'll want
                                                                                                                                                                            > some gravel that is fluorescent colored, and the gravel in the
                                                                                                                                                                            > established tank is black with some fluorescent bits.
                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                            > My ex recently received a used 10g tank and over the upcoming long
                                                                                                                                                                            > weekend I'll be helping my girls set up the tank. Their choices in
                                                                                                                                                                            > artificial plants and gravel color should be interesting as well. My
                                                                                                                                                                            > oldest son chose natural colored gravel for his tank and green silk
                                                                                                                                                                            > plants; I just got a smile out of his additions of a plastic shark,
                                                                                                                                                                            > American flag, and 'no fishing' sign :)
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > As to the fish ... we've decided to get her a Betta. She loves the way
                                                                                                                                                                            > they look, from all the sources I've looked at a Betta will thrive in
                                                                                                                                                                            > a 2.5 gallon tank with no tank mates, where most other small fish are
                                                                                                                                                                            > schooling so wouldn't be happy alone. Maybe a snail for algae control.
                                                                                                                                                                            > Kinda bummed that my new more fficient filter is now too much current
                                                                                                                                                                            > for a Betta ... so no Betta for MY tank.
                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                            > A betta will love that size tank!
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Okay ... I've seen the canisters of activated carbon and ammonia chips
                                                                                                                                                                            > ... is there any way that I could reuse the bag part of the filter
                                                                                                                                                                            > media for the TopFin, after washing it or something, and pour new
                                                                                                                                                                            > carbon and ammonia chips in? The refill pack came with four of the bag
                                                                                                                                                                            > things, four packets of carbon, and one plastic thingie that clips it
                                                                                                                                                                            > all together. (love my technical jargon here.) Those of you that DO
                                                                                                                                                                            > wash your filter bags ... how much of a pain is it to do? Is it
                                                                                                                                                                            > relatively easy, or am I better off spending the time that would be
                                                                                                                                                                            > spent washing filter bags on something more constructive, like washing
                                                                                                                                                                            > dishes? *grin* How much carbon/ammonia chips do you put in the bag
                                                                                                                                                                            > when doing filter cartridge changes?
                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                            > IMHO I don't think those packets of carbon are enough and always add
                                                                                                                                                                            > more (I use a carbon/zeolite mix). I don't go overboard on washing the
                                                                                                                                                                            > bag, just a really good rinse. And no hot water.
                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                            > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2194 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switching
                                                                                                                                                                            I would never use the ammonia chips. They will interfere with normal
                                                                                                                                                                            biological filtration and if they get used up, filled with ammo, then
                                                                                                                                                                            you won't have enough bacteria to handle the sudden ammo spike. About
                                                                                                                                                                            the gravel, good idea, and leave it right on top. Also move some
                                                                                                                                                                            ornaments and plants for a while, explain to the princess it's short
                                                                                                                                                                            term, she'll get to have more bright stuff later.

                                                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2195 From: Cyndy Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Question..
                                                                                                                                                                            Me? My only worry about too high of a temp is that don't the smaller
                                                                                                                                                                            fishes...tetra...have a very hard time at that temp?

                                                                                                                                                                            ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                            bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            > What temp do you keep it? The cysts will continue to protect the
                                                                                                                                                                            > parasite unless brought up to 84* at which point it can't maintain
                                                                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                                                                            > or form.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2196 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: wounded mollie!
                                                                                                                                                                            Any chinese or golden algae eaters in with the mollies?

                                                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2197 From: Julie Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switching
                                                                                                                                                                            I have to second this.  I have a betta that almost surfs the current, over and over intentionally.  He is in a 29 gallon, and has lots of other places to swim, soI can only assume he is playing.
                                                                                                                                                                            julie
                                                                                                                                                                            Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                                                                            I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                            just a quickie: Bettas are surprisingly hardy in filtered water - it can take a couple of tdays for them to build up their strength, but I have found that all of mine - males esp, actually enjoy swimming against the current in the strongest parts - even when there are still areas for them to swim in, so it could be possible to keep one yourself:)

                                                                                                                                                                            Aileen

                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2198 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: wounded mollie!
                                                                                                                                                                            Just a common plecostamus. (at least, that's what the tank at the LFS was labeled) He's about 4 inches long, nose to tip of tail, and normally he's really docile. Other than the pleco (who suffers loads of abuse by the now wounded mollie female) there's just mollies (mostly fry) and red wag platies. (only three of the platies ... two adults and one fry)

                                                                                                                                                                            The mollie who now has the sore is the "nipper" of the bunch ... she is always chasing all the other fish away from food at feeding time. I just never saw her actually steal the algae tablet out from under the pleco's nose until the other day, and then the very next morning spotted the sore on her mouth. I've scanned the tank all over for sharp edges, or anything that she could have rubbed up against and gotten scraped, with no luck.

                                                                                                                                                                            Since I'm still not sure whether or not whatever the three isolated mollie fry have is contagious, I just removed the carbon from the filter and put melafix in the main tank. I would rather have those three fish die than the entire tank full.

                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2199 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: kid's aquariums and filtration switc...
                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/20/2004 2:40:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, bucks_boogie@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                            Also move some
                                                                                                                                                                            ornaments and plants for a while, explain to the princess it's short
                                                                                                                                                                            term, she'll get to have more bright stuff later.


                                                                                                                                                                            Oh good, I'll give HER that cheesy "Sushi MMM!" sign that she picked out for my tank. LOL And since I'm planning on getting live plants, I can give her my artificial ones, until the tank gets cycled and I can let her pick out a new one.

                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for the input!

                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2200 From: Cyndy Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Question..
                                                                                                                                                                            Dang. Red Bob died today. I took him out and he doesn't have a mark
                                                                                                                                                                            on him. I tested the water. No ammonia. Temp is fine. No
                                                                                                                                                                            Nitrates. Red Bob was the second Betta to die. He was preceeded by
                                                                                                                                                                            Bob (just Bob who was Blue.) Red Bob was fine till this morning when
                                                                                                                                                                            he wouldn't eat. What is happening to my Bettas?

                                                                                                                                                                            ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Cyndy"
                                                                                                                                                                            <cynthiamckee@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            > Me? My only worry about too high of a temp is that don't the
                                                                                                                                                                            smaller
                                                                                                                                                                            > fishes...tetra...have a very hard time at that temp?
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                            > bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            > > What temp do you keep it? The cysts will continue to protect the
                                                                                                                                                                            > > parasite unless brought up to 84* at which point it can't
                                                                                                                                                                            maintain
                                                                                                                                                                            > and
                                                                                                                                                                            > > or form.
                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2201 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                            has anyone here ever had, or heard of a fish that was a particularly
                                                                                                                                                                            deep sleeper? i have a blood parrot, and if she is left in the dark (it
                                                                                                                                                                            has to be COMPLETELY dark for this to happen) for over 4 hours, she
                                                                                                                                                                            seems to fall into an extremely deep sleep. so deep that when i turn
                                                                                                                                                                            the light on i find her nose down wedged in plants. i always think
                                                                                                                                                                            she's dead, but in a few moments, she always "wakes up" and within ten
                                                                                                                                                                            minutes, she's fine, though the first few minutes she acts "groggy."
                                                                                                                                                                            are there such things as deep sleeping fish?
                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                                                            web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2202 From: captaininsane357 Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Oscars & bugs......
                                                                                                                                                                            Hi all.

                                                                                                                                                                            Been wondering if there are any types of insects that should
                                                                                                                                                                            NOT be fed to my oscars...

                                                                                                                                                                            Now that spring is here, and I keep my windows open for fresh
                                                                                                                                                                            air a lot, various critters like to fly into the house at night.

                                                                                                                                                                            They seem to enjoy munching on various types of moths and really
                                                                                                                                                                            like junebugs. Dropped a Ladybug in the tank today and one
                                                                                                                                                                            crunched it right up also. (Japanese beetle actually)

                                                                                                                                                                            I will of course not be tossing any live wasps or bees into the
                                                                                                                                                                            tank, but was wondering if there are any other insects that
                                                                                                                                                                            should be avoided.

                                                                                                                                                                            If anybody has any info on this, let me know.

                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                            Scott
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2203 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/20/2004 9:02:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, amalthea23@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                            > has anyone here ever had, or heard of a fish that was a particularly
                                                                                                                                                                            > deep sleeper? i have a blood parrot, and if she is left in the dark (it
                                                                                                                                                                            > has to be COMPLETELY dark for this to happen) for over 4 hours, she
                                                                                                                                                                            > seems to fall into an extremely deep sleep. so deep that when i turn
                                                                                                                                                                            > the light on i find her nose down wedged in plants. i always think
                                                                                                                                                                            > she's dead, but in a few moments, she always "wakes up" and within ten
                                                                                                                                                                            > minutes, she's fine, though the first few minutes she acts
                                                                                                                                                                            > "groggy."
                                                                                                                                                                            > are there such things as deep sleeping fish?
                                                                                                                                                                            > amalthea


                                                                                                                                                                            My Bolivian Rams. Turn the lights and give them a long dark period and it takes them quite a while to wake back up. They seem a bit defenseless when this happens but so far no losses.
                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2204 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                            Amalthea,

                                                                                                                                                                            Yes I have a angelfish that lays down on it side and just floats with
                                                                                                                                                                            the current. I came home one night late and my hubby had already turn
                                                                                                                                                                            out the lights in the tank for the night. I decided to "just" check
                                                                                                                                                                            on the fish before going up to bed. I nearly frecked out when I saw
                                                                                                                                                                            my angel floating on its side just omost twirling in the current.But
                                                                                                                                                                            I could see that it was breathing. I grabed my net and kind nudge it
                                                                                                                                                                            and it still was lying there! I screamed upstair to hubby That the
                                                                                                                                                                            one of angels was dying. I felt awful. When to bed, woke up thinking
                                                                                                                                                                            I would find a dead angel, Nope it was fine. Swimming around all
                                                                                                                                                                            spanky like nothing was wrong. I had no idea what was wrong with it.
                                                                                                                                                                            Then a friend of mine has a angel and it does the same thing. I have
                                                                                                                                                                            seen it happen a few more times. Told the people who was watching my
                                                                                                                                                                            fish last week, while I was gone. Do NOT throw out my angel if they
                                                                                                                                                                            see it floating like this, its NOT dead but a sleep. "LOL We joke
                                                                                                                                                                            all the time it better have mold on it before burying it. Sherrie


                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                            <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            > has anyone here ever had, or heard of a fish that was a
                                                                                                                                                                            particularly
                                                                                                                                                                            > deep sleeper? i have a blood parrot, and if she is left in the dark
                                                                                                                                                                            (it
                                                                                                                                                                            > has to be COMPLETELY dark for this to happen) for over 4 hours, she
                                                                                                                                                                            > seems to fall into an extremely deep sleep. so deep that when i
                                                                                                                                                                            turn
                                                                                                                                                                            > the light on i find her nose down wedged in plants. i always think
                                                                                                                                                                            > she's dead, but in a few moments, she always "wakes up" and within
                                                                                                                                                                            ten
                                                                                                                                                                            > minutes, she's fine, though the first few minutes she
                                                                                                                                                                            acts "groggy."
                                                                                                                                                                            > are there such things as deep sleeping fish?
                                                                                                                                                                            > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                            > http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                                                            > web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2205 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                            wow, ok, after hearing both of these stories i feel a lot better. i'm
                                                                                                                                                                            looking at her over there now and she's eating and being her usual
                                                                                                                                                                            inquisitive self, but it's so disturbing when she's asleep like that!
                                                                                                                                                                            she's been gaining weight lately (she's getting that adult parrot belly
                                                                                                                                                                            now) and it looked so swollen when she was upside down, it just
                                                                                                                                                                            completely freaked me out!
                                                                                                                                                                            thanks everyone!
                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                            On May 20, 2004, at 9:28 PM, freedombell2002 wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                            > Amalthea,
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Yes I have a angelfish that lays down on it side and just floats with
                                                                                                                                                                            > the current. I came home one night late and my hubby had already turn
                                                                                                                                                                            > out the lights in the tank for the night. I decided to "just" check
                                                                                                                                                                            > on the fish before going up to bed. I nearly frecked out when I saw
                                                                                                                                                                            > my angel floating on its side just omost twirling in the current.But
                                                                                                                                                                            > I could see that it was breathing. I grabed my net and kind nudge it
                                                                                                                                                                            > and it still was lying there! I screamed upstair to hubby That the
                                                                                                                                                                            > one of angels was dying. I felt awful. When to bed, woke up thinking
                                                                                                                                                                            > I would find a dead angel, Nope it was fine. Swimming around all
                                                                                                                                                                            > spanky like nothing was wrong. I had no idea what was wrong with it.
                                                                                                                                                                            > Then a friend of mine has a angel and it does the same thing. I have
                                                                                                                                                                            > seen it happen a few more times. Told the people who was watching my
                                                                                                                                                                            > fish last week, while I was gone.  Do NOT throw out my angel if they
                                                                                                                                                                            > see it floating like this, its NOT dead but a sleep. "LOL  We joke
                                                                                                                                                                            > all the time it better have mold on it before burying it.  Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                            > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            > > has anyone here ever had, or heard of a fish that was a
                                                                                                                                                                            > particularly
                                                                                                                                                                            > > deep sleeper? i have a blood parrot, and if she is left in the dark
                                                                                                                                                                            > (it
                                                                                                                                                                            > > has to be COMPLETELY dark for this to happen) for over 4 hours, she
                                                                                                                                                                            > > seems to fall into an extremely deep sleep. so deep that when i
                                                                                                                                                                            > turn
                                                                                                                                                                            > > the light on i find her nose down wedged in plants. i always think
                                                                                                                                                                            > > she's dead, but in a few moments, she always "wakes up" and within
                                                                                                                                                                            > ten
                                                                                                                                                                            > > minutes, she's fine, though the first few minutes she
                                                                                                                                                                            > acts "groggy."
                                                                                                                                                                            > > are there such things as deep sleeping fish?
                                                                                                                                                                            > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                            > > http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                                                            > > web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                                                            > <lrec_companion_043004.gif>
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                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                                                            > Service.
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                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2206 From: tropicalfishman Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                                                            Hello and Welcome to all the New Members!

                                                                                                                                                                            To get to know you all better, there is a poll for you to let us know
                                                                                                                                                                            what your intrests are. You can vote more than once to include all
                                                                                                                                                                            the topics you are interested in.

                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for joining and enjoy your visit here, we are glad to have you.


                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > What aspescts of the hobby intrest you
                                                                                                                                                                            > the most?
                                                                                                                                                                            > Is there a particular type of
                                                                                                                                                                            > Aquatic Life that you like best?
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Please let us know your Favorite
                                                                                                                                                                            > topics, if it is not in the list -
                                                                                                                                                                            > please post it to the group so we can
                                                                                                                                                                            > get a better understanding of the
                                                                                                                                                                            > General Intrests of the Members.
                                                                                                                                                                            > Thank you.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Freshwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Planted Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Nature Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Brackish Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Saltwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Reef Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Ponds
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Water Gardens
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Goldfish & Koi
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Tropical Fish
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Eels
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Crabs
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Frogs
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Snails
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Amphibians
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Live Plants
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Turtles
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Breeding
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Aquascaping
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Photography
                                                                                                                                                                            > o Live Foods
                                                                                                                                                                            > o other ~ please post
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                            id=1405371
                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2207 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                            I personally imagine that wild fish would like to sleep more too, they are just afraid of beeing eaten.  Fish seem to figure out they are safe at some point.
                                                                                                                                                                                Just my theory
                                                                                                                                                                                Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/20/2004 9:36:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, KPribble@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                            Amalthea,

                                                                                                                                                                            Yes I have a angelfish that lays down on it side and just floats with
                                                                                                                                                                            the current. I came home one night late and my hubby had already turn
                                                                                                                                                                            out the lights in the tank for the night. I decided to "just" check
                                                                                                                                                                            on the fish before going up to bed. I nearly frecked out when I saw
                                                                                                                                                                            my angel floating on its side just omost twirling in the current.But
                                                                                                                                                                            I could see that it was breathing. I grabed my net and kind nudge it
                                                                                                                                                                            and it still was lying there! I screamed upstair to hubby That the
                                                                                                                                                                            one of angels was dying. I felt awful. When to bed, woke up thinking
                                                                                                                                                                            I would find a dead angel, Nope it was fine. Swimming around all
                                                                                                                                                                            spanky like nothing was wrong. I had no idea what was wrong with it.
                                                                                                                                                                            Then a friend of mine has a angel and it does the same thing. I have
                                                                                                                                                                            seen it happen a few more times. Told the people who was watching my
                                                                                                                                                                            fish last week, while I was gone.  Do NOT throw out my angel if they
                                                                                                                                                                            see it floating like this, its NOT dead but a sleep. "LOL  We joke
                                                                                                                                                                            all the time it better have mold on it before burying it.  Sherrie


                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                            <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            > has anyone here ever had, or heard of a fish that was a
                                                                                                                                                                            particularly
                                                                                                                                                                            > deep sleeper? i have a blood parrot, and if she is left in the dark
                                                                                                                                                                            (it
                                                                                                                                                                            > has to be COMPLETELY dark for this to happen) for over 4 hours, she
                                                                                                                                                                            > seems to fall into an extremely deep sleep. so deep that when i
                                                                                                                                                                            turn
                                                                                                                                                                            > the light on i find her nose down wedged in plants. i always think
                                                                                                                                                                            > she's dead, but in a few moments, she always "wakes up" and within
                                                                                                                                                                            ten
                                                                                                                                                                            > minutes, she's fine, though the first few minutes she
                                                                                                                                                                            acts "groggy."
                                                                                                                                                                            > are there such things as deep sleeping fish?
                                                                                                                                                                            > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                            > http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                                                            > web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...



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                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2208 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                            My clown loaches do this always, with the lights ON or
                                                                                                                                                                            OFF. It doesnt matter.

                                                                                                                                                                            They sleep side ways, on their back etc etc and
                                                                                                                                                                            anybody who sees it for the first time think its
                                                                                                                                                                            dead...SuNnY !




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                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2209 From: Nywarren Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                            Nim,

                                                                                                                                                                            When you say fully developed in 12-15 weeks, are you saying fully
                                                                                                                                                                            grown? If so this is with feeding them what and how many times a
                                                                                                                                                                            day? Also for 30-50 fry what would you recommend in terms of when
                                                                                                                                                                            they should be moved to larger tanks? With a batch of say 30 fry,
                                                                                                                                                                            how many typically reach adulthood?

                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                            --- In
                                                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                                                            <KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Thank you for info, The funny things is with the 1st batch I
                                                                                                                                                                            thought
                                                                                                                                                                            > I would get about 15 to 20 babies, she had 30! Then when they were
                                                                                                                                                                            > about 4 weeks old I put them my 10 gallon with an african frog and
                                                                                                                                                                            he
                                                                                                                                                                            > ate about 10.( I felt so bad ) So frog went into 40gallon but
                                                                                                                                                                            wasn't
                                                                                                                                                                            > doing very good in there. Seemed to be having a hard time getting
                                                                                                                                                                            to
                                                                                                                                                                            > top for breath. So I put him back in with babies but he hasn't ate
                                                                                                                                                                            > anymore,(that I know) Then like I said mamma swordtail had around
                                                                                                                                                                            25
                                                                                                                                                                            > more just this weekend. They are in a floating net in main tank. I
                                                                                                                                                                            > have no idea what I'm going to do with all of them. LOL And she
                                                                                                                                                                            still
                                                                                                                                                                            > looks like she had more inside her.
                                                                                                                                                                            > my mom said she would take a few ........ yeah what about the
                                                                                                                                                                            other
                                                                                                                                                                            > 30 or so ! LOL
                                                                                                                                                                            > also didn't think the 1st batch had grown that much till I saw
                                                                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                                                                            > new ones saturday.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > , "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            > > Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > They will start getting the swords at the age of 8-12 weeks
                                                                                                                                                                            > depending on the
                                                                                                                                                                            > > growth rate. A fully developed sword may take as long as 12-15
                                                                                                                                                                            > weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@l...]
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >Sent: 17 May 2004 21:14
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] baby and babies
                                                                                                                                                                            > swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >Has anyone here had swordtail fry before? When do the males get
                                                                                                                                                                            > their
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >swordtails? I have a 6 week old batch and mamma swordtail just
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >another batch this weekend. I have swordtails coming out of my
                                                                                                                                                                            > ears.
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >LOL
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2210 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                            I was amused recently at my local LFS to see 3 large clown loaches asleep
                                                                                                                                                                            on their sides beside each other jammed into a pot. It's easy to see why
                                                                                                                                                                            their behaviour is so likened to dogs..

                                                                                                                                                                            As for cats? I'd say my Betta is most like a cat. Constantly "crawling"
                                                                                                                                                                            through tiny space and lying at funny angles before pouncing on things. It's
                                                                                                                                                                            great to watch :-)

                                                                                                                                                                            Tim


                                                                                                                                                                            On 21/5/04 1:04 PM, "sunil kamath" <sunnyvks@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                            > My clown loaches do this always, with the lights ON or
                                                                                                                                                                            > OFF. It doesnt matter.
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > They sleep side ways, on their back etc etc and
                                                                                                                                                                            > anybody who sees it for the first time think its
                                                                                                                                                                            > dead...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Domains ? Claim yours for only $14.70/year
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                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2211 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                            Well, 12-15 weeks is when the males have developed their sword and the
                                                                                                                                                                            gonopodium. They still may not be full size, could be the size of platies
                                                                                                                                                                            etc. but will keep growing.

                                                                                                                                                                            When they are still less the 1cm long, I feed them tetra babymin 3 times a
                                                                                                                                                                            day. Little generous quantity as there were a few bristle nose catfish with
                                                                                                                                                                            them too.

                                                                                                                                                                            If you use a breeding trap to secure the fry, then out of 30, 25 can rech
                                                                                                                                                                            adult hood. Depends on water quality and the tanks they have been kept in.
                                                                                                                                                                            my fry taks have floating hornwort, ludwigia repens etc. and no substrate.

                                                                                                                                                                            Nim


                                                                                                                                                                            >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                            >From: Nywarren [mailto:Nywarren99@...]
                                                                                                                                                                            >Sent: 21 May 2004 03:46
                                                                                                                                                                            >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                            >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: baby and babies swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >Nim,
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >When you say fully developed in 12-15 weeks, are you saying fully
                                                                                                                                                                            >grown? If so this is with feeding them what and how many times a
                                                                                                                                                                            >day? Also for 30-50 fry what would you recommend in terms of when
                                                                                                                                                                            >they should be moved to larger tanks? With a batch of say 30 fry,
                                                                                                                                                                            >how many typically reach adulthood?
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >--- In
                                                                                                                                                                            >FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                                                            ><KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            >> Nim
                                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                                            >> Thank you for info, The funny things is with the 1st batch I
                                                                                                                                                                            >thought
                                                                                                                                                                            >> I would get about 15 to 20 babies, she had 30! Then when they were
                                                                                                                                                                            >> about 4 weeks old I put them my 10 gallon with an african frog and
                                                                                                                                                                            >he
                                                                                                                                                                            >> ate about 10.( I felt so bad ) So frog went into 40gallon but
                                                                                                                                                                            >wasn't
                                                                                                                                                                            >> doing very good in there. Seemed to be having a hard time getting
                                                                                                                                                                            >to
                                                                                                                                                                            >> top for breath. So I put him back in with babies but he hasn't ate
                                                                                                                                                                            >> anymore,(that I know) Then like I said mamma swordtail had around
                                                                                                                                                                            >25
                                                                                                                                                                            >> more just this weekend. They are in a floating net in main tank. I
                                                                                                                                                                            >> have no idea what I'm going to do with all of them. LOL And she
                                                                                                                                                                            >still
                                                                                                                                                                            >> looks like she had more inside her.
                                                                                                                                                                            >> my mom said she would take a few ........ yeah what about the
                                                                                                                                                                            >other
                                                                                                                                                                            >> 30 or so ! LOL
                                                                                                                                                                            >> also didn't think the 1st batch had grown that much till I saw
                                                                                                                                                                            >the
                                                                                                                                                                            >> new ones saturday.
                                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                                            >> Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                                            >> , "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > They will start getting the swords at the age of 8-12 weeks
                                                                                                                                                                            >> depending on the
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > growth rate. A fully developed sword may take as long as 12-15
                                                                                                                                                                            >> weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                            >> >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@l...]
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >Sent: 17 May 2004 21:14
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] baby and babies
                                                                                                                                                                            >> swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >Has anyone here had swordtail fry before? When do the males get
                                                                                                                                                                            >> their
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >swordtails? I have a 6 week old batch and mamma swordtail just
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >another batch this weekend. I have swordtails coming out of my
                                                                                                                                                                            >> ears.
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >LOL
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >> > >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2212 From: angjo72 Date: 5/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                            Hiya,
                                                                                                                                                                            I thought my 3 swordtail babies were all females until they were 4
                                                                                                                                                                            months old and 2 started growing their swords!!! If you have alot
                                                                                                                                                                            of fry and would like to find them new homes, try www.aquabid.com I
                                                                                                                                                                            have had great luck with them! My mollies and guppies keep me
                                                                                                                                                                            supplied in babies!!!

                                                                                                                                                                            Ang




                                                                                                                                                                            --- In
                                                                                                                                                                            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                                                            <KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                            > Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                            > Has anyone here had swordtail fry before? When do the males get
                                                                                                                                                                            their
                                                                                                                                                                            > swordtails? I have a 6 week old batch and mamma swordtail just
                                                                                                                                                                            > another batch this weekend. I have swordtails coming out of my
                                                                                                                                                                            ears.
                                                                                                                                                                            > LOL
                                                                                                                                                                            > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2213 From: Audrey Archer Date: 5/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                            Does anyone keep Gouramis? I have just started stocking my tank, and so far have one male Dwarf Powder Blue Gourami (and one teensy Otocinclus), and he has taken to whacking the thermometer against the side of the tank with his nose when I am in the room. I had read that they were supposed to be easily startled by loud noises, but he doesn't seem to mind at all! I figure he started off just curious and then decided he liked the attention it got him ("Hey, look at me!") I am hoping that when his three new female friends arrive he will stop that, because I am concerned he will shatter the thermometer glass, or the tank itself.
                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2214 From: DeSmilie Date: 5/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Another Gourami Question
                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                              Hi all
                                                                                                                                                                              I have gotten my 55 gallon tank cycled and over the last few weeks have moved everyone over from the small tank and added 4 clown loaches.  Now I have 2 dwarf gourami, 7 neons, 2 pleco's and the 4 clown loaches.  My problem is the 2 dwarf gourami's are *still* fighting.  I have been given conflicting advise about what to do about them.  I can get one or two more gourami's and it will spread out the fighting so no one of them are getting the brunt of the bullying *or* I can split the 2 I already have up *or* I could just leave things as they are now and let them duke it out.  I don't want to get rid of either one of them because I've gotten really attached. :( I'm not sure about getting more because I don't want to cause an even bigger problem.  And I noticed yesterday that "Ben" seems to be getting a bit skinny so I don't like the "let them duke it out" idea.  What do you all suggest? 
                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                              DeSmilie
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                               
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                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2215 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: baby swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                              When I first saw my swordtail was prego. I did some surfing. I found
                                                                                                                                                                              they can have 30 to 45 babies. About every 33 days. The female also
                                                                                                                                                                              holds the males sperm for about 4 batches of babies. The site also
                                                                                                                                                                              said that about 4 babies out 10 would make it to adulthood. ( i have
                                                                                                                                                                              no idea if this info is true) Well with my mama had (around, kind of
                                                                                                                                                                              hard to count the little buggers) 30 babies the first time. I thought
                                                                                                                                                                              I would get around 12 to live, around 4 weeks later they were ALL
                                                                                                                                                                              still alive. I had keep them in a breeding box in my main tank. Never
                                                                                                                                                                              lost one. UNTILL.... I moved them to my ten gallon that was very
                                                                                                                                                                              heavy live planted cycled tank. With a afican frog and 3 ottos, well
                                                                                                                                                                              the frog ate about 10 babies in about 10 mins :( tried moving frog
                                                                                                                                                                              but he ended back in 10 gal with babies. The 1st batch is around 6
                                                                                                                                                                              weeks going on 7 weeks old, I still have as of today 18ish, And just
                                                                                                                                                                              this last weekend she had 25ish more. 2nd batch are still in my
                                                                                                                                                                              breeder box in main tank. I won't move them till their 4 to 5 weeks
                                                                                                                                                                              old. This last batch she is did have one baby still born. But 1st
                                                                                                                                                                              batch, like I said all were a live at 4 weeks. Makes me wonder if the
                                                                                                                                                                              frog hadn't ate them if I still would have all of them alive. Mama
                                                                                                                                                                              swordtail still looks prego, so who know how many more she will have.
                                                                                                                                                                              O yea by the way there is no male in the tank with her. He disapeared
                                                                                                                                                                              while I was gone for the weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                              I did and do feed my babies 2 to 3 times a day, the first week I feed
                                                                                                                                                                              them 1st bites ( finely ground food, feels like powder) around the
                                                                                                                                                                              2nd week I gave them "daphnia" baby brine shimp. And so on, till I
                                                                                                                                                                              got to ground up flakes. Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2216 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 5/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                              Gouramis? I have 4 handsome, Gouramis, and never ran into them
                                                                                                                                                                              raming stuff and things. I think it was because they where bought in
                                                                                                                                                                              groups. But, the raming thing, might be form seeing there
                                                                                                                                                                              reflection. I know time after time, some of are males do that.
                                                                                                                                                                              Lot's of luck, anything eles email me.
                                                                                                                                                                              Danielle
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2217 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 5/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Another Gourami Question
                                                                                                                                                                              I have four Gourami's and they do that all the time. They like to
                                                                                                                                                                              chase each other around the tank. Mine do nipe once in a wail. But
                                                                                                                                                                              you shouldn't have to seperate them.
                                                                                                                                                                              Setokaibarules2002
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2218 From: Nywarren Date: 5/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: baby and babies swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                              For 25 swordtail fry what schedule would you use in terms of moving
                                                                                                                                                                              them to larger tanks. If they start in a ten gallon when would you
                                                                                                                                                                              move them to a 20, . . .

                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nywarren"
                                                                                                                                                                              <Nywarren99@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > Nim,
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > When you say fully developed in 12-15 weeks, are you saying fully
                                                                                                                                                                              > grown? If so this is with feeding them what and how many times a
                                                                                                                                                                              > day? Also for 30-50 fry what would you recommend in terms of when
                                                                                                                                                                              > they should be moved to larger tanks? With a batch of say 30 fry,
                                                                                                                                                                              > how many typically reach adulthood?
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                                                              > <KPribble@l...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Thank you for info, The funny things is with the 1st batch I
                                                                                                                                                                              > thought
                                                                                                                                                                              > > I would get about 15 to 20 babies, she had 30! Then when they
                                                                                                                                                                              were
                                                                                                                                                                              > > about 4 weeks old I put them my 10 gallon with an african frog
                                                                                                                                                                              and
                                                                                                                                                                              > he
                                                                                                                                                                              > > ate about 10.( I felt so bad ) So frog went into 40gallon but
                                                                                                                                                                              > wasn't
                                                                                                                                                                              > > doing very good in there. Seemed to be having a hard time getting
                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                              > > top for breath. So I put him back in with babies but he hasn't
                                                                                                                                                                              ate
                                                                                                                                                                              > > anymore,(that I know) Then like I said mamma swordtail had around
                                                                                                                                                                              > 25
                                                                                                                                                                              > > more just this weekend. They are in a floating net in main tank.
                                                                                                                                                                              I
                                                                                                                                                                              > > have no idea what I'm going to do with all of them. LOL And she
                                                                                                                                                                              > still
                                                                                                                                                                              > > looks like she had more inside her.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > my mom said she would take a few ........ yeah what about the
                                                                                                                                                                              > other
                                                                                                                                                                              > > 30 or so ! LOL
                                                                                                                                                                              > > also didn't think the 1st batch had grown that much till I saw
                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > new ones saturday.
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > , "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Sherrie,
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > They will start getting the swords at the age of 8-12 weeks
                                                                                                                                                                              > > depending on the
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > growth rate. A fully developed sword may take as long as 12-15
                                                                                                                                                                              > > weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >From: freedombell2002 [mailto:KPribble@l...]
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >Sent: 17 May 2004 21:14
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] baby and babies
                                                                                                                                                                              > > swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >Has anyone here had swordtail fry before? When do the males
                                                                                                                                                                              get
                                                                                                                                                                              > > their
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >swordtails? I have a 6 week old batch and mamma swordtail just
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >another batch this weekend. I have swordtails coming out of my
                                                                                                                                                                              > > ears.
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >LOL
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2219 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Question..
                                                                                                                                                                              Small, large it doesn't give a rats behind. But the temp does. It
                                                                                                                                                                              matters what temp you keep it at.
                                                                                                                                                                              If you keep it at 84* while you medicate you'll succeed......,it's that
                                                                                                                                                                              simpple. I love my fish...............Havin' a few beers and so what,
                                                                                                                                                                              might give some attitude............... Had some crappy customers
                                                                                                                                                                              tonight, you know, betta's can live in a vase, so I apologize etc.
                                                                                                                                                                              I'll explain further tomorrow, give a crap or don't, they are your pets,
                                                                                                                                                                              I can't make you love them, but I can help you make them, so you can
                                                                                                                                                                              love them,.........

                                                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2220 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                              That is very common for parrot's, weird fish, weird habbits!

                                                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2221 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                              can parrot fish live with gold fish? i saw a picture with them together.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: bucks_boogie@... [mailto:bucks_boogie@...]
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] deep sleeper?

                                                                                                                                                                              That is very common for parrot's, weird fish, weird habbits!

                                                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"


                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2222 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                              in theory, they can, however gold fish and parrots need very different
                                                                                                                                                                              temperatures. gold fish need cool water and parrots are most definitely
                                                                                                                                                                              tropical, so while you CAN do it, it's not advisable since at least one
                                                                                                                                                                              (if not both) of this fish will be unhappy.
                                                                                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                              On May 22, 2004, at 6:04 AM, Rei - Raymond Tremor wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              > can parrot fish live with gold fish? i saw a picture with them
                                                                                                                                                                              > together.
                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                              > E-mail: LoveMoAko@...
                                                                                                                                                                              > My home page: http://www.geocities.com/reitremor
                                                                                                                                                                              > My betta fish page:
                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-bettas.html
                                                                                                                                                                              > My other fish page:
                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-fishes.html
                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                              > I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN
                                                                                                                                                                              > THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                              > IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND
                                                                                                                                                                              > LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR
                                                                                                                                                                              > SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                              > I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              > From: bucks_boogie@... [mailto:bucks_boogie@...]
                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > That is very common for parrot's, weird fish, weird habbits!
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2223 From: witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: still no slime coat
                                                                                                                                                                              Those three mollie fry are still lacking a slime coat. I've tried anti-fungus tablets, Melafix, and a 30 minute salt bath. I've also tried putting both Start Right AND Stress Coat in the tank water. Nothing so far has worked. I'm at my wits end here. I don't know if it's safe for them to be in with the other fish, because I don't want to lose an entire tank's worth of fish to some unknown ailment. Right now they are in the plastic breeder box in the tank ... since putting them in the hospital tank for various treatments has done nothing but make my bedroom smell "fishy". (hospital tank is one of those "critter carriers" with the plastic mesh top)

                                                                                                                                                                              I saw one vague reference to this sort of ailment ... but all it said was "medications available" ... didn't say what kind! If none of the medications and treatments I've got access to will work, should I euthanize the fish?

                                                                                                                                                                              Here's the rundown ... all three "infected" fish are dull in appearance, one of the males has a small lesion near the top fin. One male has cloudy eyes. Behaviour is normal, the males are even trying to impregnate the female. (just what I need ... MORE fish with an unknown ailment) The two males show signs of tattered tail fins. NO response to anti-fungal tablets or Melafix. I tried a salt bath this morning, not sure how long I'll have to wait to see any signs of improvement. Treatments were all given in a 1.5 gallon hospital tank with a diffuser hooked to an airline, no substrate, and no filter. (I did daily 1 gallon water changes before adding that day's dose of medication, water  quality stayed at "0" mark on 5-in-1 test strip.) Hospital tank temperature was regulated at between 80 and 85 degrees F. (using only a clip on desk lamp over the tank and switching it off whenever temperature got higher than the top yellow bar on the suction cup glass thermometer)

                                                                                                                                                                              Any advice? I've searched and searched websites for any mention of this sort of ailment, and only found ONE vague reference to something called "slime coat disease".  Now that I think I know what it's called, I *still* don't know how to fix it. Or even if I can.

                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for any help you can offer, I'm running out of ideas here, and even hubby is suggesting it'd be kinder to put them out of their misery.

                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2224 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: swimming funny
                                                                                                                                                                              my black female molly is  swimming side ways, in circles and upside down. should i take her out of the take? any help would be appreciated! thanks
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2225 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                              oic. thanks for the info. i was just wondering cause i was told that parrot fish were aggressive too and the gold fish are not.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 3:19 AM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] deep sleeper?

                                                                                                                                                                              in theory, they can, however gold fish and parrots need very different temperatures. gold fish need cool water and parrots are most definitely tropical, so while you CAN do it, it's not advisable since at least one (if not both) of this fish will be unhappy.
                                                                                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                              On May 22, 2004, at 6:04 AM, Rei - Raymond Tremor wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                              can parrot fish live with gold fish? i saw a picture with them together.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                              Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                              E-mail: LoveMoAko@...
                                                                                                                                                                              My home page: http://www.geocities.com/reitremor
                                                                                                                                                                              My betta fish page: http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-bettas.html
                                                                                                                                                                              My other fish page: http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-fishes.html
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                              I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                              From: bucks_boogie@... [mailto:bucks_boogie@...]
                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] deep sleeper?

                                                                                                                                                                              That is very common for parrot's, weird fish, weird habbits!

                                                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"





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                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                                                              don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2226 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: swimming funny
                                                                                                                                                                              ive heard when they do that they are either preggo and ready to have babies or they are having a swim bladder infection.. not sure thought.. just what i have heard.. my fish do that some tiems but not for long periods of time.. how long have they been swimming like that... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2227 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: swimming funny
                                                                                                                                                                              she has been like this for about a month, but it seems to come and go..it does look like she's getting worse though. shes really skinny so i dont think she is pregnant. i purchased about 10 sail fin mollies at the same time and i am down to 4, they are in a community tank with about 20 other  fish and in a year the mollies are my only fish to die. my tank is cycled, the pH, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia are all fine!!
                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2228 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: swimming funny
                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                I don't know anything about mollies, but did a little research on Google, and found that:
                                                                                                                                                                                "...they are really brackish-water fish, and will not do well in a freshwater tank. They prefer temperatures around 80-82 degrees, and would do better in an aquarium of 30 gallons or more", "Though they are not schooling fish, they would do better with a larger number of their own kind".
                                                                                                                                                                                Did'nt follow this thread, and hope this is'nt a repeat, and it's agreeable to current advisors.
                                                                                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                PS
                                                                                                                                                                                THE GOOGLE SEARCH USED THE TERM/S

                                                                                                                                                                                NEEDS OF SAILFIN MOLLIES
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2229 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                                Parrots are warm water fish, goldies are not. Also, the parrots will
                                                                                                                                                                                hound the goldies and the stress will become too much for them. I,
                                                                                                                                                                                personally, would never mix goldfish with anything but dojo loaches.

                                                                                                                                                                                "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2230 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                                Ahh, Amalthea, you're quick on the draw..... :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2231 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: still no slime coat
                                                                                                                                                                                Hey Erin, sorry you're having so much trouble. Am I correct that you
                                                                                                                                                                                don't use salt in your regular tank or am I confusing you with someone
                                                                                                                                                                                else? I never had any long term success with mollies until I started
                                                                                                                                                                                using salt. They began thriving afterwards. But right now, if they are
                                                                                                                                                                                really sick, I'd put them down humanely, cup of water in the freezer.

                                                                                                                                                                                "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2232 From: Erin Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: still no slime coat
                                                                                                                                                                                No, I use salt in the tank ... 1 tbsp per 5 gallons water. (I should
                                                                                                                                                                                probably use more, various sites say that Mollies prefer more salt
                                                                                                                                                                                than most freshwater aquariums, but I have YET to find even ONE that
                                                                                                                                                                                says HOW MUCH MORE SALT TO ADD.

                                                                                                                                                                                That's why this weird ailment surprised me, I hadn't had any troubles
                                                                                                                                                                                since starting to add salt, then this showed up. I've already
                                                                                                                                                                                euthanized one out of the original 4 affected, because it got to
                                                                                                                                                                                where it wasn't eating, just hung out a lot on the bottom of the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                and was obviously slipping. I just wasn't sure if I needed to go
                                                                                                                                                                                ahead and do that with the other 3, or if there was some way of
                                                                                                                                                                                treating them that I was just missing. *sigh* Thanks for the input.

                                                                                                                                                                                Erin

                                                                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                Am I correct that you
                                                                                                                                                                                > don't use salt in your regular tank or am I confusing you with
                                                                                                                                                                                someone
                                                                                                                                                                                > else? **snip ** But right now, if they are
                                                                                                                                                                                > really sick, I'd put them down humanely, cup of water in the
                                                                                                                                                                                freezer.
                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2233 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: SailfinMolly Sickness
                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                  Did a GoogleSearch about Mollies, and came up with info that contradicts
                                                                                                                                                                                  what is considered a myth about Mollies, and uses resources to validate the
                                                                                                                                                                                  criticism of the myth posit. One thing that was mentioned in the link was
                                                                                                                                                                                  that Mollies need harder water. Seems valuable to read the article. Another
                                                                                                                                                                                  item I came accross in another link is that, even though they recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                  salt, harder water is necessary. An element of fishkeeping/consumers
                                                                                                                                                                                  attitudes on the subject of Mollies that has been repeated by fishbuyers in
                                                                                                                                                                                  general is asking advise about how to change creation and evolution in order
                                                                                                                                                                                  to keep two or more incompatable species together, in terms of changing
                                                                                                                                                                                  radically different water constituents to accomodate all species, but really
                                                                                                                                                                                  wanting a drug or other advisement to forestall the inevitable without
                                                                                                                                                                                  really wanting/needing to admit it.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, if I learned anything about Mollies, (which I don't keep),
                                                                                                                                                                                  they seems to REALLY need harder water, among other things, if not
                                                                                                                                                                                  necessarily salt.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2234 From: red-eye Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: SailfinMolly Sickness
                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe - Your message is carrying a virus




                                                                                                                                                                                  At 09:37 AM 5/23/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                     Did a GoogleSearch about Mollies, and came up with info that contradicts
                                                                                                                                                                                  what is considered a myth about Mollies, and uses resources to validate the
                                                                                                                                                                                  criticism of the myth posit. One thing that was mentioned in the link was
                                                                                                                                                                                  that Mollies need harder water. Seems valuable to read the article. Another
                                                                                                                                                                                  item I came accross in another link is that, even though they recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                  salt, harder water is necessary. An element of fishkeeping/consumers
                                                                                                                                                                                  attitudes on the subject of Mollies that has been repeated by fishbuyers in
                                                                                                                                                                                  general is asking advise about how to change creation and evolution in order
                                                                                                                                                                                  to keep two or more incompatable species together, in terms of changing
                                                                                                                                                                                  radically different water constituents to accomodate all species, but really
                                                                                                                                                                                  wanting a drug or other advisement to forestall the inevitable without
                                                                                                                                                                                  really wanting/needing to admit it.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, if I learned anything about Mollies, (which I don't keep),
                                                                                                                                                                                  they seems to REALLY need harder water, among other things, if not
                                                                                                                                                                                  necessarily salt.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                                                                                                                                                  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

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                                                                                                                                                                                  Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                  red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                                  <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                  The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                                                                  <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                                                                  Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                                                  The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                                                  If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                                                  http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                                                  <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                  Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                                                  For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                                                  ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                  The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                                                                  Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                                                                  Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                                                                  ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2235 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Fw: SailfinMolly Sickness
                                                                                                                                                                                  Red and Crew,
                                                                                                                                                                                  About the 'virus', I can't find an indication of it here, in my
                                                                                                                                                                                  'anti-virus-prog', and Outlook Express' accepted it. I don't know if Yahoo
                                                                                                                                                                                  accepts attachments, but I'd been getting attachments from the 'freshwater'
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group, so I assumed they were accepting them under certain conditions. I
                                                                                                                                                                                  know Outlook Express has an element in 'OPTIONS' that allows you to exclude
                                                                                                                                                                                  attachments that "COULD" be dangerous, but I unchecked it, because I
                                                                                                                                                                                  generally don't allow anything suspicious into "OE" from my ISPs.
                                                                                                                                                                                  The link I sent as an attachment did'nt open in the Group-Site, but
                                                                                                                                                                                  opened safely from Outlook Express.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Anyway, the URL that could help ERIN with her Molly problems is:


                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Fishes_Catalogue/molly_fish.htm

                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage



                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                  From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshWaterTropicalFishAquarium@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 12:37 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: SailfinMolly Sickness


                                                                                                                                                                                  > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Did a GoogleSearch about Mollies, and came up with info that
                                                                                                                                                                                  contradicts
                                                                                                                                                                                  > what is considered a myth about Mollies, and uses resources to validate
                                                                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                                                                  > criticism of the myth posit. One thing that was mentioned in the link was
                                                                                                                                                                                  > that Mollies need harder water. Seems valuable to read the article.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Another
                                                                                                                                                                                  > item I came accross in another link is that, even though they recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                  > salt, harder water is necessary. An element of fishkeeping/consumers
                                                                                                                                                                                  > attitudes on the subject of Mollies that has been repeated by fishbuyers
                                                                                                                                                                                  in
                                                                                                                                                                                  > general is asking advise about how to change creation and evolution in
                                                                                                                                                                                  order
                                                                                                                                                                                  > to keep two or more incompatable species together, in terms of changing
                                                                                                                                                                                  > radically different water constituents to accomodate all species, but
                                                                                                                                                                                  really
                                                                                                                                                                                  > wanting a drug or other advisement to forestall the inevitable without
                                                                                                                                                                                  > really wanting/needing to admit it.
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Well, if I learned anything about Mollies, (which I don't keep),
                                                                                                                                                                                  > they seems to REALLY need harder water, among other things, if not
                                                                                                                                                                                  > necessarily salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2236 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Fw: SailfinMolly Sickness
                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe,
                                                                                                                                                                                  It was not a virus. Many e-mail clients have security to block potentially
                                                                                                                                                                                  dangerous attachments. These include all executable attachments: .exe, .com,
                                                                                                                                                                                  .pif & .url. there are work arounds for this but it is better to let the
                                                                                                                                                                                  options be there.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Best to send attachments as a zip file and for urls just pate the link as a
                                                                                                                                                                                  text.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                  >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                  >From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Sent: 23 May 2004 18:24
                                                                                                                                                                                  >To: FreshWaterTropicalFishAquarium@...
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Fw: SailfinMolly Sickness
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Red and Crew,
                                                                                                                                                                                  > About the 'virus', I can't find an indication of it here, in my
                                                                                                                                                                                  >'anti-virus-prog', and Outlook Express' accepted it. I don't know if Yahoo
                                                                                                                                                                                  >accepts attachments, but I'd been getting attachments from the 'freshwater'
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Group, so I assumed they were accepting them under certain conditions. I
                                                                                                                                                                                  >know Outlook Express has an element in 'OPTIONS' that allows you to
                                                                                                                                                                                  >exclude
                                                                                                                                                                                  >attachments that "COULD" be dangerous, but I unchecked it, because I
                                                                                                                                                                                  >generally don't allow anything suspicious into "OE" from my ISPs.
                                                                                                                                                                                  > The link I sent as an attachment did'nt open in the Group-Site, but
                                                                                                                                                                                  >opened safely from Outlook Express.
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Anyway, the URL that could help ERIN with her Molly problems is:
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Fishes_Catalogue/molly_fish.ht
                                                                                                                                                                                  >m
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                  >From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                  >To: <FreshWaterTropicalFishAquarium@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 12:37 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Subject: SailfinMolly Sickness
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> Did a GoogleSearch about Mollies, and came up with info that
                                                                                                                                                                                  >contradicts
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> what is considered a myth about Mollies, and uses resources to validate
                                                                                                                                                                                  >the
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> criticism of the myth posit. One thing that was mentioned in the link was
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> that Mollies need harder water. Seems valuable to read the article.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Another
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> item I came accross in another link is that, even though they recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> salt, harder water is necessary. An element of fishkeeping/consumers
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> attitudes on the subject of Mollies that has been repeated by fishbuyers
                                                                                                                                                                                  >in
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> general is asking advise about how to change creation and evolution in
                                                                                                                                                                                  >order
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> to keep two or more incompatable species together, in terms of changing
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> radically different water constituents to accomodate all species, but
                                                                                                                                                                                  >really
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> wanting a drug or other advisement to forestall the inevitable without
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> really wanting/needing to admit it.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> Well, if I learned anything about Mollies, (which I don't keep),
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> they seems to REALLY need harder water, among other things, if not
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> necessarily salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                                                                  >> Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2237 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                                  I had a blue botia that used to sleep with its front half wedged
                                                                                                                                                                                  vertically in the gravel. Used to worry me constantly, but after a year
                                                                                                                                                                                  or so.... still does it;)


                                                                                                                                                                                  A.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2238 From: Michelle Cota Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: still no slime coat
                                                                                                                                                                                  you milght want to try actual SALT water salt (synthetic). Since the
                                                                                                                                                                                  "aquarium salt" generally is manufactured, it lacks the right balance of
                                                                                                                                                                                  mineral content. And adding it you want to add about 1/8 of a cup per
                                                                                                                                                                                  GALLON, pre-mixing it, this should bring your salt level to 1.006-1.008 ppm.
                                                                                                                                                                                  If you are unsure, use a hydrometer. Mollies actually derive from the
                                                                                                                                                                                  estuaries and river deltas of the southern states (where freswater meets
                                                                                                                                                                                  saltwater, aka brackish), so they are used to a high mineral content. They
                                                                                                                                                                                  also do MUCH better if you add a liquid calcium to the water, like Kent
                                                                                                                                                                                  Marine Liquid Calcium. Add this almost every day...about 3-4 times a week.
                                                                                                                                                                                  Mollies generally feed off of corraline algae that has a high calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                  content, and being vegetarians (those big lips are used for algae rasping),
                                                                                                                                                                                  you should ALWAYS give them algae in their diet. Sheeted seaweeds, like
                                                                                                                                                                                  Julian Sprungs Algae Flake Blend (it has green, purple, and red corraline
                                                                                                                                                                                  and kelp algae), also spirulina, and blanched collard greens, and red and
                                                                                                                                                                                  green leaf lettuce. Try these tactics before you destroy them, I work
                                                                                                                                                                                  retail and tried this tactic, and the mollies have never looked better!!
                                                                                                                                                                                  Good Luck, and don't let a little speed bump make you destroy your love of
                                                                                                                                                                                  fish!!!!


                                                                                                                                                                                  >From: "Erin" <Witchywmn42@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Reply-To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                  >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: still no slime coat
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 15:16:19 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >No, I use salt in the tank ... 1 tbsp per 5 gallons water. (I should
                                                                                                                                                                                  >probably use more, various sites say that Mollies prefer more salt
                                                                                                                                                                                  >than most freshwater aquariums, but I have YET to find even ONE that
                                                                                                                                                                                  >says HOW MUCH MORE SALT TO ADD.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >That's why this weird ailment surprised me, I hadn't had any troubles
                                                                                                                                                                                  >since starting to add salt, then this showed up. I've already
                                                                                                                                                                                  >euthanized one out of the original 4 affected, because it got to
                                                                                                                                                                                  >where it wasn't eating, just hung out a lot on the bottom of the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                  >and was obviously slipping. I just wasn't sure if I needed to go
                                                                                                                                                                                  >ahead and do that with the other 3, or if there was some way of
                                                                                                                                                                                  >treating them that I was just missing. *sigh* Thanks for the input.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                  >bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Am I correct that you
                                                                                                                                                                                  > > don't use salt in your regular tank or am I confusing you with
                                                                                                                                                                                  >someone
                                                                                                                                                                                  > > else? **snip ** But right now, if they are
                                                                                                                                                                                  > > really sick, I'd put them down humanely, cup of water in the
                                                                                                                                                                                  >freezer.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                                                  _________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                  Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee�
                                                                                                                                                                                  Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2239 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                                  actually, most parrots, kept in singles, are very docile fish, and
                                                                                                                                                                                  goldfish can sometimes be extremely aggressive and will eat anything
                                                                                                                                                                                  that can fit in their mouths...
                                                                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                  On May 22, 2004, at 1:24 PM, Rei - Raymond Tremor wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                  > oic. thanks for the info. i was just wondering cause i was told that
                                                                                                                                                                                  > parrot fish were aggressive too and the gold fish are not.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                  > E-mail: LoveMoAko@...
                                                                                                                                                                                  > My home page: http://www.geocities.com/reitremor
                                                                                                                                                                                  > My betta fish page:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-bettas.html
                                                                                                                                                                                  > My other fish page:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-fishes.html
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN
                                                                                                                                                                                  > THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND
                                                                                                                                                                                  > LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR
                                                                                                                                                                                  > SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                  > From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 3:19 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > in theory, they can, however gold fish and parrots need very different
                                                                                                                                                                                  > temperatures. gold fish need cool water and parrots are most
                                                                                                                                                                                  > definitely tropical, so while you CAN do it, it's not advisable since
                                                                                                                                                                                  > at least one (if not both) of this fish will be unhappy.
                                                                                                                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                  > On May 22, 2004, at 6:04 AM, Rei - Raymond Tremor wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > can parrot fish live with gold fish? i saw a picture with them
                                                                                                                                                                                  > together.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                  > E-mail: LoveMoAko@...
                                                                                                                                                                                  > My home page: http://www.geocities.com/reitremor
                                                                                                                                                                                  > My betta fish page:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-bettas.html
                                                                                                                                                                                  > My other fish page:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-fishes.html
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN
                                                                                                                                                                                  > THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND
                                                                                                                                                                                  > LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR
                                                                                                                                                                                  > SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                  > From: bucks_boogie@... [mailto:bucks_boogie@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 9:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > That is very common for parrot's, weird fish, weird habbits!
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > <lrec_companion_043004.gif>
                                                                                                                                                                                  > <l.gif>
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                                                                  > don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                                                                                                                                                                                  > ADVERTISEMENT
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                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                  >  
                                                                                                                                                                                  > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                                                                                                                                                  > Service.
                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                  >


                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.puppetterrors.com
                                                                                                                                                                                  don't be afraid to scream...
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2240 From: canadian_craftsman Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: T8 Bulbs
                                                                                                                                                                                  Good day:

                                                                                                                                                                                  Does anyone know if you can run T8 bulbs on a T12 ballast and are
                                                                                                                                                                                  there any consequences?

                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                  Michael
                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2241 From: pfleiderer Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: T8 Bulbs
                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                     The bulb will burn out very quickly.
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     Charles
                                                                                                                                                                                    All mail scanned by Norton Antivirus 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: 05/23/04 21:09:05
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] T8 Bulbs
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    Good day:
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    Does anyone know if you can run T8 bulbs on a T12 ballast and are
                                                                                                                                                                                    there any consequences?
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    Michael
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
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                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2242 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: still no slime coat
                                                                                                                                                                                    My mollies are always feeding off of algae ... they keep stealing the nightly algae tablet from the plecostamus. I also give them a tubifex worm cube once a week, and a slice of zucchini once a week as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                    As to actual salt water, I'm praying you don't mean I should drive to the local beach, and snag some of THAT filthy water. (I live in Georgia, and our local beach water is in DEPLORABLE condition, I would not subject my fish to that nasty polluted junk.)

                                                                                                                                                                                    All the other fish are fine, it's just those few that were odd, and there has been little to no resources online or anywhere else that has been helpful to me. Just the one "medications available" reference I found on ONE site out of twenty or so online fish disease diagnostic pages. And even that one didn't bother to say WHAT medication. Very unhelpful. :(

                                                                                                                                                                                    I still love my fishes ... and am kinda bummed that your email came a bit too late for those three. Even a salt bath in 1.5 gallons of water with 2 ounces of salt did not help them in the slightest. Nor did a two week long course of Melafix. I wasn't sure if those four fish affected were somehow genetically flawed in some way, or if they caught something that somehow didn't affect the other fish, or what. Sounds like when school lets out this week and I start taking my little one to the library regularly for her summer reading, I'll be scouring the shelves for fishy info. I had tried asking in this group for a couple of weeks for any advice and apparently nobody knew anything to help. So I thought I was doing the conscientous thing by euthanizing them.

                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2243 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                    I also have a pair of golden gouramis and the male (
                                                                                                                                                                                    IMO )used to do that quite often. But now after i
                                                                                                                                                                                    moved the thermometer very close to the corner hes
                                                                                                                                                                                    stopped banging it...SuNnY !





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                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2244 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: T8 Bulbs
                                                                                                                                                                                    Not being an electrician, I won't answer. All I've herd is that t-8's
                                                                                                                                                                                    save you money on electric bills. However, try joining AquaticPlants
                                                                                                                                                                                    Digest(I'll try finding the exact address tomorrow or Tuesday). There
                                                                                                                                                                                    are wizards there who know mad stuff about lighting, being plant maniacs
                                                                                                                                                                                    and all......

                                                                                                                                                                                    "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2245 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                                    how does a blue botia looks like?
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                    Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Aileen Pettigrew [mailto:saberath44@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 9:42 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] deep sleeper?

                                                                                                                                                                                    I had a blue botia that used to sleep with its front half wedged
                                                                                                                                                                                    vertically in the gravel. Used to worry me constantly, but after a year
                                                                                                                                                                                    or so.... still does it;)


                                                                                                                                                                                    A.


                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2246 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: still no slime coat
                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                      Erin,
                                                                                                                                                                                      This is incidental to seawater. A grocer I knew, who before he sold the store was a stockbroker, then after the store, went to California to try another business. While he was still grocering/owning/managing, he invested in a health-related concern (that he said was the, or one of the growth industries, etc.) that manufactured a product derived from seawater. Seawater has enough minerals dissolved in it to enable business to duplicate, or extract the minerals, etc. in it.
                                                                                                                                                                                      If someone suggested seawater, I believe the advice was relative to seawater content, not the crap you refer to. There was a report on something like PBS or similar, (i RARELY LISTEN TO ANYTHING ELSE ON RADIO) that related a story about a Greek scientist doing experiments with trace-elements, and the results he obtained were as intrinsic as results industry/science were acheiving with genetic manipulation, hybridization, etc. There are trace elements in seawater, and the minerals therein relate to a Mollies need for harder water. The link in the post to the Freshwater Group expounds the relationship of the species various families and their different geographic locations, and their differing water environments. One common factor that held through that thread, even if saltwater was considered or not considered absolutely necessary, was a need for a degree of hard water.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Hope you get this after weeks of inadequate assistance.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                      PS
                                                                                                                                                                                      I bought a product from the ex-grocer/broker/etc., derived from seawater, that was supposed to aid me to stop smoking. It changed my metabolism to a point where I believed the electrolytes enabled consciousness to DECIDE to resist the urge to smoke. But, it changed my sense of taste to a point where food tasted too different, so I stopped taking it. Water hardness, whatever it contains, changes the metabolism quite radically, so it's important to consider when the fish your caring for needs it.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2247 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: T8 Bulbs
                                                                                                                                                                                      If its an electronic ballast, they will be fine, if it is magnetic ballast,
                                                                                                                                                                                      this will shorten the life of the T8s but in the long run T8 are more energy
                                                                                                                                                                                      efficient then T12s. so even practically you can run T8 on a T12 ballast. I
                                                                                                                                                                                      do that myself for a tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                      >From: canadian_craftsman [mailto:michael@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Sent: 24 May 2004 02:24
                                                                                                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] T8 Bulbs
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Good day:
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Does anyone know if you can run T8 bulbs on a T12 ballast and are
                                                                                                                                                                                      >there any consequences?
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Michael
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                                                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2248 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                      Hey, that used to happen to me too. Every 15-20 min the gold gourami used to
                                                                                                                                                                                      bang the thermometer.

                                                                                                                                                                                      >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                      >From: sunil kamath [mailto:sunnyvks@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Sent: 24 May 2004 04:10
                                                                                                                                                                                      >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >I also have a pair of golden gouramis and the male (
                                                                                                                                                                                      >IMO )used to do that quite often. But now after i
                                                                                                                                                                                      >moved the thermometer very close to the corner hes
                                                                                                                                                                                      >stopped banging it...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >__________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2249 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: deep sleeper?

                                                                                                                                                                                      It is basically botia modesta or called the Red finned loach in the books.

                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/botia_modesta.html

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Rei - Raymond Tremor [mailto:r.tremor@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 24 May 2004 05:24
                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] deep sleeper?
                                                                                                                                                                                      Importance: High

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      how does a blue botia looks like?

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                      Rei - Raymond Tremor

                                                                                                                                                                                      E-mail: LoveMoAko@...

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.

                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Aileen Pettigrew [mailto:saberath44@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 9:42 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] deep sleeper?

                                                                                                                                                                                      I had a blue botia that used to sleep with its front half wedged
                                                                                                                                                                                      vertically in the gravel. Used to worry me constantly, but after a year
                                                                                                                                                                                      or so.... still does it;)


                                                                                                                                                                                      A.




                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2250 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 5/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                      So as of today I am down to just two..... I am not having luck with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                      I got a little confused I will admit.. they are saltwater fish???
                                                                                                                                                                                      I put a lot of salt in the fish tankevery Wednesday, just aquarium salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Should I put the last two in a tank by themselves and add more salt?
                                                                                                                                                                                      Or I can just part with the two, not a problem, Im just scared my other fish will start eventually dying and I have had great luck with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                      I am down to my "gold" male with red eyes and a silver female, pretty fish..the one reason I started with mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                      I think Ill stick with barbs =) and my danios, and once this batch dies I will probably start buying larger fish. Everyone says its a waste to have such big tanks with tiny fish in them, but I dont mind. I like community tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2251 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                      no! mollys are NOT saltwater fish, they just do a lot better with salt
                                                                                                                                                                                      in the water, like all freshwater fish. you can't just put "a lot" of
                                                                                                                                                                                      salt in the water! it has to be carefully measured and you have to
                                                                                                                                                                                      realize that salt doesn't evaporate so you only replace the salt from
                                                                                                                                                                                      the water that you actually remove through siphoning. for mollys, 1
                                                                                                                                                                                      tablespoon per every 4 gallons should be fine, though any fish in your
                                                                                                                                                                                      freshwater aquarium will do better with 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                      the salt eases the strain on your fish's kidneys and helps them with
                                                                                                                                                                                      electrolyte balance, it's important to keep them healthy and
                                                                                                                                                                                      unstrained. there isn't a natural body of freshwater on the planet
                                                                                                                                                                                      without some salt in it! bear that in mind and remember, your fish will
                                                                                                                                                                                      be happiest when it's natural environment is duplicated as much as
                                                                                                                                                                                      possible!
                                                                                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                      On May 24, 2004, at 1:40 PM, simonsmommy0117@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                      > So as of today I am down to just two..... I am not having luck with
                                                                                                                                                                                      > them.
                                                                                                                                                                                      > I got a little confused I will admit.. they are saltwater fish???
                                                                                                                                                                                      > I put a lot of salt in the fish tankevery Wednesday, just aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                      > salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Should I put the last two in a tank by themselves and add more salt?
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Or I can just part with the two, not a problem, Im just scared my
                                                                                                                                                                                      > other fish will start eventually dying and I have had great luck with
                                                                                                                                                                                      > them.
                                                                                                                                                                                      > I am down to my "gold" male with red eyes and a silver female, pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                      > fish..the one reason I started with mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                      > I think Ill stick with barbs =) and my danios, and once this batch
                                                                                                                                                                                      > dies I will probably start buying larger fish. Everyone says its a
                                                                                                                                                                                      > waste to have such big tanks with tiny fish in them, but I dont mind.
                                                                                                                                                                                      > I like community tanks
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                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2252 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                      It looks to me as if your frantic, on the verge of hysteria and not reading emails from the group, or my emails are'nt getting through. I sent a link that explains that Mollies do not need brackish (in that instance-salt) water, BUT THEY NEED A CERTAIN DEGREE OF WATER-HARDNESS. As far as salt in the aquarium, I've put satl in my Corydora tank for over ten years, contrary to what some people say about Corys and salt. Some, or all experts believe salt in the right amount is beneficial to the fish. My Corys have been breeding for years with a little salt, to the tune I did'nt need to buy fish. You've never mentioned whether or not you've considered looking into increasing water-hardness for your Mollies. Sounds like you're dumping salt indescriminately.
                                                                                                                                                                                         And as far as so-called too-small fish in a so-called big aquarium, I've had two Goldfish in a 75 gallon, and thought that tank was too small, so I gave the fish to the LFS, expecting they might end up in a pond. I personaaally could'nt bear keeping a large fish in an aquarium, unless I could afford something the size of an Olympic swimming pool. Don't let your aquaintances or whatever sway you into thinking your fish are too small for that inanimate object/aquarium.  I've seen fish in home tanks that had to bend sideways to turn around.  Tell them to go home and live in a closet! Or not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 1:40 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE

                                                                                                                                                                                      So as of today I am down to just two..... I am not having luck with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                      I got a little confused I will admit.. they are saltwater fish???
                                                                                                                                                                                      I put a lot of salt in the fish tankevery Wednesday, just aquarium salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Should I put the last two in a tank by themselves and add more salt?
                                                                                                                                                                                      Or I can just part with the two, not a problem, Im just scared my other fish will start eventually dying and I have had great luck with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                      I am down to my "gold" male with red eyes and a silver female, pretty fish..the one reason I started with mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                      I think Ill stick with barbs =) and my danios, and once this batch dies I will probably start buying larger fish. Everyone says its a waste to have such big tanks with tiny fish in them, but I dont mind. I like community tanks

                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2253 From: Snerticus Date: 5/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't know if Mollies would be better with or without salt. What
                                                                                                                                                                                      I do know is the hardness of natural saltwater is much higher than
                                                                                                                                                                                      freshwater, so IF the mollies were brackish to salt-water
                                                                                                                                                                                      compatible, it would stand to reason that they would need harder
                                                                                                                                                                                      water as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                      As far as mollies and the "myth" of salt water, I know mollies can
                                                                                                                                                                                      thrive in salt water as I've seen a tank full of different colored
                                                                                                                                                                                      mollies in the salt water section of a pet store many years ago that
                                                                                                                                                                                      looked well-acclimated. I thought that was interesting so when I
                                                                                                                                                                                      started up a saltwater tank that year, I put a mollie in just to get
                                                                                                                                                                                      the cycle going. The mollie lived for a long time in that saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                      tank, and was healthy during that time - more than a year (because I
                                                                                                                                                                                      didn't have the heart to put larger fish in the tank that would eat
                                                                                                                                                                                      it). I'm not sure why the mollie died eventually, as it's been a
                                                                                                                                                                                      long time since I've done it, but what stands out for me in this
                                                                                                                                                                                      situation is that mollies can live in salt water without a problem,
                                                                                                                                                                                      as long as you acclimate them adequately (ie. slowly) enough before
                                                                                                                                                                                      introducing them to it. Obviously, I bought my molly from a
                                                                                                                                                                                      freshwater tank and acclimated it myself just to see if it was
                                                                                                                                                                                      possible. It most certainly is.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Now, the fact that mollies can live in pure salwater is NOT a myth
                                                                                                                                                                                      because I know this for a fact having experienced it myself. Since
                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not a biologist and haven't been in the hobby for a few years,
                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not sure which molly species are better suited for salt or
                                                                                                                                                                                      brackish water systems, but the addition of the sythetic salt to
                                                                                                                                                                                      aquariums naturally raises the hardness of the water, and seemed to
                                                                                                                                                                                      me in the past to benefit my mollies even in my freshwater tanks (I
                                                                                                                                                                                      think it was the typical short-finned black molly that I put in my
                                                                                                                                                                                      saltwater tank - if I recall correctly). I haven't done exhaustive
                                                                                                                                                                                      studies on this so don't quote me on whether it's the salt or the
                                                                                                                                                                                      hardness. But obviously, neither one will hurt mollies.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Unless evolution has changed in the last ten to fifteen years. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                      Snert



                                                                                                                                                                                      -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                      <j.pascavage@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                      > It looks to me as if your frantic, on the verge of hysteria and
                                                                                                                                                                                      not reading emails from the group, or my emails are'nt getting
                                                                                                                                                                                      through. I sent a link that explains that Mollies do not need
                                                                                                                                                                                      brackish (in that instance-salt) water, BUT THEY NEED A CERTAIN
                                                                                                                                                                                      DEGREE OF WATER-HARDNESS. As far as salt in the aquarium, I've put
                                                                                                                                                                                      satl in my Corydora tank for over ten years, contrary to what some
                                                                                                                                                                                      people say about Corys and salt. Some, or all experts believe salt
                                                                                                                                                                                      in the right amount is beneficial to the fish. My Corys have been
                                                                                                                                                                                      breeding for years with a little salt, to the tune I did'nt need to
                                                                                                                                                                                      buy fish. You've never mentioned whether or not you've considered
                                                                                                                                                                                      looking into increasing water-hardness for your Mollies. Sounds like
                                                                                                                                                                                      you're dumping salt indescriminately.
                                                                                                                                                                                      > And as far as so-called too-small fish in a so-called big
                                                                                                                                                                                      aquarium, I've had two Goldfish in a 75 gallon, and thought that
                                                                                                                                                                                      tank was too small, so I gave the fish to the LFS, expecting they
                                                                                                                                                                                      might end up in a pond. I personaaally could'nt bear keeping a large
                                                                                                                                                                                      fish in an aquarium, unless I could afford something the size of an
                                                                                                                                                                                      Olympic swimming pool. Don't let your aquaintances or whatever sway
                                                                                                                                                                                      you into thinking your fish are too small for that inanimate
                                                                                                                                                                                      object/aquarium. I've seen fish in home tanks that had to bend
                                                                                                                                                                                      sideways to turn around. Tell them to go home and live in a closet!
                                                                                                                                                                                      Or not.
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2254 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                      If I was going to try Mollies, I'd definately consider water-hardness. As far as the little salt to brackish, I don't know of anyone who sells fish that also knows which part of the world that particular Molly came from. I don't know how long a Molly should live, but on the subject of other fish, some say the male Betta lives around 1 or two years in a home tank. When I first started keeping fish, I read a story about a male Betta that was kept alive in a University lab for fifteen years, and the only element the report used to qualify the allegation was "....chased the fish around the tank for exercise." I'm sure there was more to the study (from a reputable source), but that's the way it was printed. I would think a University would have the utmost consideration for the fishs' well being.
                                                                                                                                                                                      I've used a little over 1/4 tsp. per gallon in a 75 gallon tank for Corydora s'for over ten years, and have had very few deaths, the population increased through egg-laying, and if I could have identified each and every fish, I would'nt be surprised if at least one of them was at least ten years old. And some people insist Corydoras don't tolerate salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                                      > I don't know if Mollies would be better with or without salt. What
                                                                                                                                                                                      > I do know is the hardness of natural saltwater is much higher than
                                                                                                                                                                                      > freshwater, so IF the mollies were brackish to salt-water
                                                                                                                                                                                      > compatible, it would stand to reason that they would need harder
                                                                                                                                                                                      > water as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      > As far as mollies and the "myth" of salt water, I know mollies can
                                                                                                                                                                                      > thrive in salt water as I've seen a tank full of different colored
                                                                                                                                                                                      > mollies in the salt water section of a pet store many years ago that
                                                                                                                                                                                      > looked well-acclimated. I thought that was interesting so when I
                                                                                                                                                                                      > started up a saltwater tank that year, I put a mollie in just to get
                                                                                                                                                                                      > the cycle going. The mollie lived for a long time in that saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                      > tank, and was healthy during that time - more than a year (because I
                                                                                                                                                                                      > didn't have the heart to put larger fish in the tank that would eat
                                                                                                                                                                                      > it). I'm not sure why the mollie died eventually, as it's been a
                                                                                                                                                                                      > long time since I've done it, but what stands out for me in this
                                                                                                                                                                                      > situation is that mollies can live in salt water without a problem,
                                                                                                                                                                                      > as long as you acclimate them adequately (ie. slowly) enough before
                                                                                                                                                                                      > introducing them to it. Obviously, I bought my molly from a
                                                                                                                                                                                      > freshwater tank and acclimated it myself just to see if it was
                                                                                                                                                                                      > possible. It most certainly is.
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Now, the fact that mollies can live in pure salwater is NOT a myth
                                                                                                                                                                                      > because I know this for a fact having experienced it myself. Since
                                                                                                                                                                                      > I'm not a biologist and haven't been in the hobby for a few years,
                                                                                                                                                                                      > I'm not sure which molly species are better suited for salt or
                                                                                                                                                                                      > brackish water systems, but the addition of the sythetic salt to
                                                                                                                                                                                      > aquariums naturally raises the hardness of the water, and seemed to
                                                                                                                                                                                      > me in the past to benefit my mollies even in my freshwater tanks (I
                                                                                                                                                                                      > think it was the typical short-finned black molly that I put in my
                                                                                                                                                                                      > saltwater tank - if I recall correctly). I haven't done exhaustive
                                                                                                                                                                                      > studies on this so don't quote me on whether it's the salt or the
                                                                                                                                                                                      > hardness. But obviously, neither one will hurt mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Unless evolution has changed in the last ten to fifteen years. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Snert
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      > -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                      > <j.pascavage@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                      > > It looks to me as if your frantic, on the verge of hysteria and
                                                                                                                                                                                      > not reading emails from the group, or my emails are'nt getting
                                                                                                                                                                                      > through. I sent a link that explains that Mollies do not need
                                                                                                                                                                                      > brackish (in that instance-salt) water, BUT THEY NEED A CERTAIN
                                                                                                                                                                                      > DEGREE OF WATER-HARDNESS. As far as salt in the aquarium, I've put
                                                                                                                                                                                      > satl in my Corydora tank for over ten years, contrary to what some
                                                                                                                                                                                      > people say about Corys and salt. Some, or all experts believe salt
                                                                                                                                                                                      > in the right amount is beneficial to the fish. My Corys have been
                                                                                                                                                                                      > breeding for years with a little salt, to the tune I did'nt need to
                                                                                                                                                                                      > buy fish. You've never mentioned whether or not you've considered
                                                                                                                                                                                      > looking into increasing water-hardness for your Mollies. Sounds like
                                                                                                                                                                                      > you're dumping salt indescriminately.
                                                                                                                                                                                      > > And as far as so-called too-small fish in a so-called big
                                                                                                                                                                                      > aquarium, I've had two Goldfish in a 75 gallon, and thought that
                                                                                                                                                                                      > tank was too small, so I gave the fish to the LFS, expecting they
                                                                                                                                                                                      > might end up in a pond. I personaaally could'nt bear keeping a large
                                                                                                                                                                                      > fish in an aquarium, unless I could afford something the size of an
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Olympic swimming pool. Don't let your aquaintances or whatever sway
                                                                                                                                                                                      > you into thinking your fish are too small for that inanimate
                                                                                                                                                                                      > object/aquarium. I've seen fish in home tanks that had to bend
                                                                                                                                                                                      > sideways to turn around. Tell them to go home and live in a closet!
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Or not.
                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2255 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: still no slime coat
                                                                                                                                                                                      Our water is moderately hard, and has a slightly high pH. When we first got our water tested at LFS when first setting up the tank, the lady said that our water was a little bit hard, but that putting a little bit of pH downer would help. I usually don't bother with it, since the mollies and platies seem to like it just fine the way it is.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2256 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: still no slime coat
                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                        Everything I've read recently about Mollies intends to point in the direction that they definately need harder water. I may feel a little screwed-up by the problems in the Molly-thread, but whoever has dying Mollies has'nt on one occasion or another stated raising the hardness to a specific degree to have loooooong-lived Mollies. I had Mollies ONCE. black and yellow. I did'nt concern myself with hardness, maybe among other reasons because I had Corys in the tank, They seemed happy, except they , or I should say, the male innocently hounded the female incessantly. They had fry, but 'till they started falling apart, they seemed OK. I believe too-soft water and not allowing either to rest by not separating them, stressed them to death, but if I tried keeping them again, I'd learn about the specific degree of hardness they need, and make sure the others in the tank were compatable with that hardness. As for the LFS, I don't think/know he's right, but I had Corys and Plattys together, and they seemed to get along with something around PH7 , our water here is soft, my Corys may have lasted ten years or so, and bred whenever the water temp cooled a bit. The Plattys bred so much I stopped keeping them.
                                                                                                                                                                                        A quick look into the Baensch Atlas brings up any where from 11 to 30 degrees hardness for Mollies. And that's other than adding a little salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2257 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                        They aren't true "saltwater" fish, more brackish. But they are fine
                                                                                                                                                                                        under normal freshwater conditions. Most in the hobby are bred that
                                                                                                                                                                                        way. By lots of salt, what do you mean? Are you only replacing what's
                                                                                                                                                                                        removed during a water change? This is importantant. Had a customer
                                                                                                                                                                                        who'd misunderstood my livestock person and add whole tanks worth each
                                                                                                                                                                                        time.

                                                                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2258 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 5/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 225
                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 5/25/04 9:53:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                        I don't know if Mollies would be better with or without salt.  What
                                                                                                                                                                                        I do know is the hardness of natural saltwater is much higher than
                                                                                                                                                                                        freshwater, so IF the mollies were brackish to salt-water
                                                                                                                                                                                        compatible, it would stand to reason that they would need harder
                                                                                                                                                                                        water as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                        As far as mollies and the "myth" of salt water, I know mollies can
                                                                                                                                                                                        thrive in salt water as I've seen a tank full of different colored
                                                                                                                                                                                        mollies in the salt water section of a pet store many years ago that
                                                                                                                                                                                        looked well-acclimated.  I thought that was interesting so when I
                                                                                                                                                                                        started up a saltwater tank that year, I put a mollie in just to get
                                                                                                                                                                                        the cycle going.  The mollie lived for a long time in that saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                        tank, and was healthy during that time - more than a year (because I
                                                                                                                                                                                        didn't have the heart to put larger fish in the tank that would eat
                                                                                                                                                                                        it). I'm not sure why the mollie died eventually, as it's been a
                                                                                                                                                                                        long time since I've done it, but what stands out for me in this
                                                                                                                                                                                        situation is that mollies can live in salt water without a problem,
                                                                                                                                                                                        as long as you acclimate them adequately (ie. slowly) enough before
                                                                                                                                                                                        introducing them to it.  Obviously, I bought my molly from a
                                                                                                                                                                                        freshwater tank and acclimated it myself just to see if it was
                                                                                                                                                                                        possible.  It most certainly is.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Now, the fact that mollies can live in pure salwater is NOT a myth
                                                                                                                                                                                        because I know this for a fact having experienced it myself.  Since
                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm not a biologist and haven't been in the hobby for a few years,
                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm not sure which molly species are better suited for salt or
                                                                                                                                                                                        brackish water systems, but the addition of the sythetic salt to
                                                                                                                                                                                        aquariums naturally raises the hardness of the water, and seemed to
                                                                                                                                                                                        me in the past to benefit my mollies even in my freshwater tanks (I
                                                                                                                                                                                        think it was the typical short-finned black molly that I put in my
                                                                                                                                                                                        saltwater tank - if I recall correctly).  I haven't done exhaustive
                                                                                                                                                                                        studies on this so don't quote me on whether it's the salt or the
                                                                                                                                                                                        hardness. But obviously, neither one will hurt mollies.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Unless evolution has changed in the last ten to fifteen years. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                        Snert


                                                                                                                                                                                        If I remember correctly from my fish-keeping days of years ago, Mollies, at that time, were caught off the shore of NC.  They are primarily brackish water fish, similar to the "mosquito fish" in the tributaries in DE.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2259 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                        I actually started using salt after talking to an old timer who used to
                                                                                                                                                                                        catch mollies for sale from the Gulf of Mexico. Back then, rock salt
                                                                                                                                                                                        for ice melting was all the rage. Nice dirty tanks :-) but they'd clear
                                                                                                                                                                                        up in a couple of days.

                                                                                                                                                                                        "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2260 From: Smit, Johan (JD) Date: 5/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: FLUORITE
                                                                                                                                                                                        Message
                                                                                                                                                                                        ARE THERE ANYONE FROM SOUTH AFRICA ON THIS GROUP THAT KNOW WHERE I CAN BUY
                                                                                                                                                                                        FLOURITE.I KNOW IT IS MINED IN SOUTH AFRICA BUT CAN'T FIND ANY.

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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2261 From: Peggy Date: 5/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Corydoras - Joe (wasSAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE)
                                                                                                                                                                                        I just wanted to jump in and say my lone Corydora did quite well when I had
                                                                                                                                                                                        my brackish tank going. I'm always surprised when I hear they aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                        supposed to do well with salt. Fortunately for him because stupid me didn't
                                                                                                                                                                                        really know any better.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Also wanted to throw in this update on my poor lone Corydora, I can't thank
                                                                                                                                                                                        you enough for telling me they are schooling fish and that the poor guy was
                                                                                                                                                                                        probably lonely. I went out that weekend and found 3 young'uns and it has
                                                                                                                                                                                        made a world of difference. I always thought he was doing okay but he did
                                                                                                                                                                                        stay in his house a lot. Not anymore, he's never in there now (in fact one
                                                                                                                                                                                        of the pleco's took it over.) He is out all of the time now and preforms
                                                                                                                                                                                        all kinds of cute antics (showing off for the kids, I think.) They follow
                                                                                                                                                                                        him everywhere, especially one in particular never leaves his side.

                                                                                                                                                                                        If it weren't for you, Joe, that little guy would have continued to live a
                                                                                                                                                                                        very lonely life. I can't tell you how grateful I am that you gave me so
                                                                                                                                                                                        much information on how to give this little guy a better life. Thank you!

                                                                                                                                                                                        Peggy




                                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 3
                                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:02:33 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        From: <j.pascavage@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE

                                                                                                                                                                                        It looks to me as if your frantic, on the verge of hysteria and not reading
                                                                                                                                                                                        emails from the group, or my emails are'nt getting through. I sent a link
                                                                                                                                                                                        that explains that Mollies do not need brackish (in that instance-salt)
                                                                                                                                                                                        water, BUT THEY NEED A CERTAIN DEGREE OF WATER-HARDNESS. As far as salt in
                                                                                                                                                                                        the aquarium, I've put satl in my Corydora tank for over ten years, contrary
                                                                                                                                                                                        to what some people say about Corys and salt. Some, or all experts believe
                                                                                                                                                                                        salt in the right amount is beneficial to the fish. My Corys have been
                                                                                                                                                                                        breeding for years with a little salt, to the tune I did'nt need to buy
                                                                                                                                                                                        fish. You've never mentioned whether or not you've considered looking into
                                                                                                                                                                                        increasing water-hardness for your Mollies. Sounds like you're dumping salt
                                                                                                                                                                                        indescriminately.
                                                                                                                                                                                        And as far as so-called too-small fish in a so-called big aquarium, I've
                                                                                                                                                                                        had two Goldfish in a 75 gallon, and thought that tank was too small, so I
                                                                                                                                                                                        gave the fish to the LFS, expecting they might end up in a pond. I
                                                                                                                                                                                        personaaally could'nt bear keeping a large fish in an aquarium, unless I
                                                                                                                                                                                        could afford something the size of an Olympic swimming pool. Don't let your
                                                                                                                                                                                        aquaintances or whatever sway you into thinking your fish are too small for
                                                                                                                                                                                        that inanimate object/aquarium. I've seen fish in home tanks that had to
                                                                                                                                                                                        bend sideways to turn around. Tell them to go home and live in a closet! Or
                                                                                                                                                                                        not.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage




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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2262 From: Peggy Date: 5/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                        Don't add salt when you are just replacing water that has evaporated from
                                                                                                                                                                                        the tank or "topping off" the tank, only when you are doing your partial
                                                                                                                                                                                        water changes. Mollies don't need a lot of salt, just the normal amount
                                                                                                                                                                                        that others have told you, I believe it is 1 teaspoon for every 5 gallons.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Hope your fishes come out of this okay.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Peggy




                                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 1
                                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:40:06 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                        From: simonsmommy0117@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE

                                                                                                                                                                                        So as of today I am down to just two..... I am not having luck with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I got a little confused I will admit.. they are saltwater fish???
                                                                                                                                                                                        I put a lot of salt in the fish tankevery Wednesday, just aquarium salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Should I put the last two in a tank by themselves and add more salt?
                                                                                                                                                                                        Or I can just part with the two, not a problem, Im just scared my other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        will start eventually dying and I have had great luck with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I am down to my "gold" male with red eyes and a silver female, pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                        fish..the one reason I started with mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I think Ill stick with barbs =) and my danios, and once this batch dies I
                                                                                                                                                                                        will probably start buying larger fish. Everyone says its a waste to have
                                                                                                                                                                                        such
                                                                                                                                                                                        big tanks with tiny fish in them, but I dont mind. I like community tanks





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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2263 From: Tim Walker Date: 5/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE Can I just add that that should be 1 TABLESPOON per 5 gallons.

                                                                                                                                                                                        In my case I add 1 tsp per gallon. E.g. 2 tsp to an 8 litre bucket.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Tim

                                                                                                                                                                                        On 26/5/04 9:24 AM, "Peggy" <peggy1155@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        Don't add salt when you are just replacing water that has evaporated from
                                                                                                                                                                                        the tank or "topping off" the tank, only when you are doing your partial
                                                                                                                                                                                        water changes.  Mollies don't need a lot of salt, just the normal amount
                                                                                                                                                                                        that others have told you, I believe it is 1 teaspoon for every 5 gallons.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Hope your fishes come out of this okay.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Peggy


                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2264 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                        it's one tablespoon per 5 gallons :)
                                                                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                        On May 25, 2004, at 7:24 PM, Peggy wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > Don't add salt when you are just replacing water that has evaporated
                                                                                                                                                                                        > from
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the tank or "topping off" the tank, only when you are doing your
                                                                                                                                                                                        > partial
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water changes.  Mollies don't need a lot of salt, just the normal
                                                                                                                                                                                        > amount
                                                                                                                                                                                        > that others have told you, I believe it is 1 teaspoon for every 5
                                                                                                                                                                                        > gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Hope your fishes come out of this okay.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Peggy
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Message: 1
                                                                                                                                                                                        >    Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:40:06 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                        >    From: simonsmommy0117@...
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > So as of today I am down to just two..... I am not having luck with
                                                                                                                                                                                        > them.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I got a little confused I will admit.. they are saltwater fish???
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I put a lot of salt in the fish tankevery Wednesday, just aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                        > salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Should I put the last two in a tank by themselves and add more salt?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Or I can just part with the two, not a problem, Im just scared my
                                                                                                                                                                                        > other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        > will start eventually dying and I have had great luck with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am down to my "gold" male with red eyes and a silver female, pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                        > fish..the one reason I started with mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I think Ill stick with barbs =) and my danios, and once this batch
                                                                                                                                                                                        > dies I
                                                                                                                                                                                        > will probably start buying larger fish. Everyone says its a waste to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > have
                                                                                                                                                                                        > such
                                                                                                                                                                                        > big tanks with tiny fish in them, but I dont mind. I like community
                                                                                                                                                                                        > tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2265 From: Ang P Date: 5/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                        Hiya,

                                                                                                                                                                                        I keep and breed mollies, without salt. I reserve
                                                                                                                                                                                        salt for when or if my fish get any illnesses, my
                                                                                                                                                                                        mollies, swords and other fish thrive and are huge. I
                                                                                                                                                                                        have researched this area extensively and came up with
                                                                                                                                                                                        this. Mollies come from all kinds of water, salt,
                                                                                                                                                                                        fresh, brackish. That Mollies seem to be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                        adjust to any amount of salt or lack of, that it is
                                                                                                                                                                                        the water changes that matter and the quality of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        water. Water hardness as well comes into play. But,
                                                                                                                                                                                        what I went with was my instinct and what works best
                                                                                                                                                                                        for MY fish. You can not let yourself get flustered
                                                                                                                                                                                        by what others say or do, you have to find out what is
                                                                                                                                                                                        best for your individual fish!!
                                                                                                                                                                                        There is a reason why you will get a different answer
                                                                                                                                                                                        when you ask people about their preferences, because
                                                                                                                                                                                        different things work for different people!! But,
                                                                                                                                                                                        thats just my 2 cents!!

                                                                                                                                                                                        Take care!!

                                                                                                                                                                                        Angela




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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2266 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Sensing Doom
                                                                                                                                                                                        Good morning. I just joined the club because I sense that we are
                                                                                                                                                                                        heading for trouble with our two starter tanks. They are planted
                                                                                                                                                                                        tanks with an substrate of peat moss and a type of clay...I got it at
                                                                                                                                                                                        petsmart...under aquarium gravel...there's a bit of sand mixed in.
                                                                                                                                                                                        It is using a charcoal filter from the starter kit. Everything
                                                                                                                                                                                        seemed to be doing okay until we got an infestation of snails which
                                                                                                                                                                                        ate all the plants and their population exploded like crazy. My kids
                                                                                                                                                                                        were keeping the aquarium lights on all the time, which I have
                                                                                                                                                                                        learned is not a good thing to do, and our tanks suddenly, over one
                                                                                                                                                                                        week, began stinking to high heaven, and there was a tremendous die
                                                                                                                                                                                        off.

                                                                                                                                                                                        We completely emptied the worst of the tanks, after moving all the
                                                                                                                                                                                        surviving fish into the other tank, and scrubbed it out, and put in a
                                                                                                                                                                                        new substrate (the old smelled so bad my dh just emptied it into the
                                                                                                                                                                                        compost pile). We bought new plants, used a snail killer, and filled
                                                                                                                                                                                        the tank with fresh water, with about a half a gallon of the old
                                                                                                                                                                                        water mixed in. We put in a new filter, and so far there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                        smell, but the water is still white and cloudy. We went ahead and
                                                                                                                                                                                        put the surviving fish from both tanks into this tank (again, just to
                                                                                                                                                                                        get the smell out of the house) and there has been no die off since.
                                                                                                                                                                                        We are planning to take our time with the second tank...plant it, let
                                                                                                                                                                                        it sit empty except for water and plants for a bit, and then add fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        slowly back to it once it clears out.

                                                                                                                                                                                        The thing is, we didn't expect our kids to be so reliable at taking
                                                                                                                                                                                        care of the tanks, so we didn't really learn much about the
                                                                                                                                                                                        aquariums. But they really seem to love their aqariums, and I think
                                                                                                                                                                                        will remain responsible for them. So we need to learn, so we don't
                                                                                                                                                                                        repeat the mistakes we already made.

                                                                                                                                                                                        So are we doing anything glaringly wrong so far? Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                        My kids like a mixed tank...each of them has their own betta
                                                                                                                                                                                        (usually, though during the move a cat got one of them), and they
                                                                                                                                                                                        like guppies and other brightly colored fish. We tried platys, but
                                                                                                                                                                                        they breed so fast we don't know what to do with them. Same with
                                                                                                                                                                                        guppies, but folks are always willing to take them off our hands,
                                                                                                                                                                                        since they are so pretty and varied. We tried neon tetras, but
                                                                                                                                                                                        couldn't keep them alive for more than three days at a time.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2267 From: Peggy Date: 5/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 226
                                                                                                                                                                                        Oops! Got my spoons mixed up! Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                        Peggy



                                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 8
                                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:50:44 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: SAILFIN MOLLY UPDATE

                                                                                                                                                                                        it's one tablespoon per 5 gallons :)
                                                                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                        On May 25, 2004, at 7:24 PM, Peggy wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                        > Don't add salt when you are just replacing water that has evaporated
                                                                                                                                                                                        > from
                                                                                                                                                                                        > the tank or "topping off" the tank, only when you are doing your
                                                                                                                                                                                        > partial
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water changes. Mollies don't need a lot of salt, just the normal
                                                                                                                                                                                        > amount
                                                                                                                                                                                        > that others have told you, I believe it is 1 teaspoon for every 5
                                                                                                                                                                                        > gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Hope your fishes come out of this okay.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Peggy




                                                                                                                                                                                        ---
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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2268 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                        Greetings!
                                                                                                                                                                                        I just joined because I am needing help with our tank. I have a 15
                                                                                                                                                                                        gallon tank with 5 tetras, 2 female guppies, 2 guppy babies (about 3
                                                                                                                                                                                        weeks old) and a golden snail. Yesterday I removed 2 Dwarf African
                                                                                                                                                                                        frogs because I suspect they were eating guppy babies. We have had
                                                                                                                                                                                        this set up since December.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I can see the fish have ICH. I put some drops in the water from the
                                                                                                                                                                                        store. It said not to use a carbon filter while treating the water
                                                                                                                                                                                        for 10 or 12 days. Does that mean I leave the filter off?
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have 2 bubblers in there- I originally had only one but the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        were hanging out near the top so I suspected one wasn't enough.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I am having a hard time with dying fish. Recently lost 2 male
                                                                                                                                                                                        guppies- maybe from ICH? I only recently realized this was going on.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I don't think the guppy fry that disappeared died; no bodies.
                                                                                                                                                                                        Besides that, the frogs kept getting into their net enclosure.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Incidently, yesterday we had 10 new guppy fry born and I put them in
                                                                                                                                                                                        a separate tank for now. I hope to allow them to grow up a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                        before returning them to the big tank. I used the water from the big
                                                                                                                                                                                        tank for the fry, after it had been treated with ICH meds.

                                                                                                                                                                                        I could use advice and instruction here!
                                                                                                                                                                                        MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2269 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Sensing Doom
                                                                                                                                                                                        Have you tested the water quality in either of the tanks? There are test kits (available at petsmart ... that's where I get the majority of my fish related stuff too) that you can use to check the "big five" ... pH, hardness, nitrate, nitrite, and alkalinity. They also make test kits to test your ammonia. Both types of test kits are VERY necessary for the continued well being of your tanks, in my opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                        How many gallons are each of the "starter kits"? How many fish are in each, other than the betta in each? I'm not sure WHY neon tetras would die off so quickly, unless something is either terribly wrong with THEIR neon tetra stock, or something is terribly wrong with the water conditions.

                                                                                                                                                                                        How long were the tanks set up before you initially put in the fish? Where did the snails come from that destroyed your plants? What was the "clay" substrate labeled as when you bought it?

                                                                                                                                                                                        Livebeares DO make great fish to start with, but yes, if they're happy they breed like crazy. My big breeders are my mollies. (I have a livebearer community tank ... mollies and red wag platies)

                                                                                                                                                                                        With more information, perhaps someone can help you find out what happened.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2270 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                        HI,

                                                                                                                                                                                        welcome to the club.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Removing the carbon means just see what kind of filter
                                                                                                                                                                                        u are using and in the filter media if you carbon then
                                                                                                                                                                                        just remove that bag.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Keep the filter on awalys.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you have a heater in there if yes what is the temp
                                                                                                                                                                                        u have kept the tank at ??

                                                                                                                                                                                        You can increase the temp to 28 - 30'c or 80 - 82'F.

                                                                                                                                                                                        There are several medications and preventatives
                                                                                                                                                                                        available including Super Ich by Aquatronics and
                                                                                                                                                                                        Maracyn and Maracyn-Two by Mardel Laboratories.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Information: This is the most widespread and common
                                                                                                                                                                                        freshwater fish disease. The small pustules are
                                                                                                                                                                                        actually sacks of tiny protazoans. In a few days, the
                                                                                                                                                                                        sacks break open and the parasites fall into the
                                                                                                                                                                                        aquarium gravel where they multiply in great numbers.
                                                                                                                                                                                        When mature, the new protazoans attack the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        fish. It is this lifecycle that makes Ich so
                                                                                                                                                                                        contagious. The protazoans will weaken the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        progressively by destroying the protective coating.

                                                                                                                                                                                        The protazoans may only be destroyed after they have
                                                                                                                                                                                        left the sacks. When embedded in the aquarium gravel,
                                                                                                                                                                                        they are susceptible to medication. Therefore,
                                                                                                                                                                                        increasing the temperature of the water during
                                                                                                                                                                                        treatment can speed up the life cycle, causing the
                                                                                                                                                                                        pustules to break open quicker. After exposed, the
                                                                                                                                                                                        protazoans are killed before they can multiply.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Hope this helps...SuNnY !



                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Theresa Dostaler <mrsd@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Greetings!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I just joined because I am needing help with our
                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank. I have a 15
                                                                                                                                                                                        > gallon tank with 5 tetras, 2 female guppies, 2 guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                        > babies (about 3
                                                                                                                                                                                        > weeks old) and a golden snail. Yesterday I removed 2
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Dwarf African
                                                                                                                                                                                        > frogs because I suspect they were eating guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                        > babies. We have had
                                                                                                                                                                                        > this set up since December.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I can see the fish have ICH. I put some drops in the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water from the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > store. It said not to use a carbon filter while
                                                                                                                                                                                        > treating the water
                                                                                                                                                                                        > for 10 or 12 days. Does that mean I leave the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > filter off?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have 2 bubblers in there- I originally had only
                                                                                                                                                                                        > one but the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        > were hanging out near the top so I suspected one
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wasn't enough.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am having a hard time with dying fish. Recently
                                                                                                                                                                                        > lost 2 male
                                                                                                                                                                                        > guppies- maybe from ICH? I only recently realized
                                                                                                                                                                                        > this was going on.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I don't think the guppy fry that disappeared died;
                                                                                                                                                                                        > no bodies.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Besides that, the frogs kept getting into their net
                                                                                                                                                                                        > enclosure.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Incidently, yesterday we had 10 new guppy fry born
                                                                                                                                                                                        > and I put them in
                                                                                                                                                                                        > a separate tank for now. I hope to allow them to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > grow up a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                        > before returning them to the big tank. I used the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water from the big
                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank for the fry, after it had been treated with ICH
                                                                                                                                                                                        > meds.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I could use advice and instruction here!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >





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                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2271 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a question about filters. which one is better, a filter with bio wheel or the one that just have the foam for the nitrifying bacteria to live? How does a 3 cycle filter work? Is that better? I have a Tetratec PF150 filter and I out 2 of them in the 20 gal aquarium where my 4 gold fish are housed and but the water smells in a few days. I was wondering if a 3 cycle filter with bio wheel is better.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                        Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                        From: sunil kamath [mailto:sunnyvks@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:49 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Newbie; fish with ich

                                                                                                                                                                                        HI,

                                                                                                                                                                                        welcome to the club.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Removing the carbon means just see what kind of filter
                                                                                                                                                                                        u are using and in the filter media if you carbon then
                                                                                                                                                                                        just remove that bag.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Keep the filter on awalys.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you have a heater in there if yes what is the temp
                                                                                                                                                                                        u have kept the tank at ??

                                                                                                                                                                                        You can increase the temp to 28 - 30'c or 80 - 82'F.

                                                                                                                                                                                        There are several medications and preventatives
                                                                                                                                                                                        available including Super Ich by Aquatronics and
                                                                                                                                                                                        Maracyn and Maracyn-Two by Mardel Laboratories.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Information: This is the most widespread and common
                                                                                                                                                                                        freshwater fish disease. The small pustules are
                                                                                                                                                                                        actually sacks of tiny protazoans. In a few days, the
                                                                                                                                                                                        sacks break open and the parasites fall into the
                                                                                                                                                                                        aquarium gravel where they multiply in great numbers.
                                                                                                                                                                                        When mature, the new protazoans attack the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                                                        fish. It is this lifecycle that makes Ich so
                                                                                                                                                                                        contagious. The protazoans will weaken the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        progressively by destroying the protective coating.

                                                                                                                                                                                        The protazoans may only be destroyed after they have
                                                                                                                                                                                        left the sacks. When embedded in the aquarium gravel,
                                                                                                                                                                                        they are susceptible to medication. Therefore,
                                                                                                                                                                                        increasing the temperature of the water during
                                                                                                                                                                                        treatment can speed up the life cycle, causing the
                                                                                                                                                                                        pustules to break open quicker. After exposed, the
                                                                                                                                                                                        protazoans are killed before they can multiply.

                                                                                                                                                                                        Hope this helps...SuNnY !



                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Theresa Dostaler <mrsd@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Greetings!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I just joined because I am needing help with our
                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank. I have a 15
                                                                                                                                                                                        > gallon tank with 5 tetras, 2 female guppies, 2 guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                        > babies (about 3
                                                                                                                                                                                        > weeks old) and a golden snail. Yesterday I removed 2
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Dwarf African
                                                                                                                                                                                        > frogs because I suspect they were eating guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                        > babies. We have had
                                                                                                                                                                                        > this set up since December.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I can see the fish have ICH. I put some drops in the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water from the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > store. It said not to use a carbon filter while
                                                                                                                                                                                        > treating the water
                                                                                                                                                                                        > for 10 or 12 days.  Does that mean I leave the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > filter off?
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have 2 bubblers in there- I originally had only
                                                                                                                                                                                        > one but the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                        > were hanging out near the top so I suspected one
                                                                                                                                                                                        > wasn't enough.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I am having a hard time with dying fish. Recently
                                                                                                                                                                                        > lost 2 male
                                                                                                                                                                                        > guppies- maybe from ICH? I only recently realized
                                                                                                                                                                                        > this was going on.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I don't think the guppy fry that disappeared died;
                                                                                                                                                                                        > no bodies.
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Besides that, the frogs kept getting into their net
                                                                                                                                                                                        > enclosure.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > Incidently, yesterday we had 10 new guppy fry born
                                                                                                                                                                                        > and I put them in
                                                                                                                                                                                        > a separate tank for now. I hope to allow them to
                                                                                                                                                                                        > grow up a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                        > before returning them to the big tank. I used the
                                                                                                                                                                                        > water from the big
                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank for the fry, after it had been treated with ICH
                                                                                                                                                                                        > meds.
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        > I could use advice and instruction here!
                                                                                                                                                                                        > MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                        >



                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                        __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                        Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
                                                                                                                                                                                        http://messenger.yahoo.com/

                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2272 From: anuar Date: 5/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Goldie Dying everyday ....
                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi everybody,
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          Anybody want to solve my probs...please help me...
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          I have bought 7 goldies which in size of 2" and the 1 bigger one (size of 3"). they are in oranda and ryukin.. I put them in 3 feet aquarium tank.  The problem now i have notice that three of my goldies died in 3 days... I ttried to figure out why this incident happend.. Is there any cure for my goldies for not dying everyday... I put anti-clorin into the tank and the 3 live plants.. I only swithed the light only at night ..the pump/filter and bubbler are on throught the day and night..
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          thanks..
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          Anuar
                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                            IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2273 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                          THanks; I didn't realize there were other kinds of filters. I will
                                                                                                                                                                                          look into it.
                                                                                                                                                                                          I have the heater set to 79-80 but will increase it.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Unfortunately one of the young guppies died now. We had more born
                                                                                                                                                                                          yesterday so I have about 20 in a separate tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                          It is too bad there is no qick fix to thins problem! Is there a way
                                                                                                                                                                                          to prevent it in the future?
                                                                                                                                                                                          :>) MrsD

                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                                                                                                                                                                          <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                          > HI,
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > welcome to the club.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Removing the carbon means just see what kind of filter
                                                                                                                                                                                          > u are using and in the filter media if you carbon then
                                                                                                                                                                                          > just remove that bag.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Keep the filter on awalys.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Do you have a heater in there if yes what is the temp
                                                                                                                                                                                          > u have kept the tank at ??
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > You can increase the temp to 28 - 30'c or 80 - 82'F.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > There are several medications and preventatives
                                                                                                                                                                                          > available including Super Ich by Aquatronics and
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Maracyn and Maracyn-Two by Mardel Laboratories.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Information: This is the most widespread and common
                                                                                                                                                                                          > freshwater fish disease. The small pustules are
                                                                                                                                                                                          > actually sacks of tiny protazoans. In a few days, the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > sacks break open and the parasites fall into the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > aquarium gravel where they multiply in great numbers.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > When mature, the new protazoans attack the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish. It is this lifecycle that makes Ich so
                                                                                                                                                                                          > contagious. The protazoans will weaken the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                          > progressively by destroying the protective coating.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > The protazoans may only be destroyed after they have
                                                                                                                                                                                          > left the sacks. When embedded in the aquarium gravel,
                                                                                                                                                                                          > they are susceptible to medication. Therefore,
                                                                                                                                                                                          > increasing the temperature of the water during
                                                                                                                                                                                          > treatment can speed up the life cycle, causing the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > pustules to break open quicker. After exposed, the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > protazoans are killed before they can multiply.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Hope this helps...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- Theresa Dostaler <mrsd@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Greetings!
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I just joined because I am needing help with our
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > tank. I have a 15
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > gallon tank with 5 tetras, 2 female guppies, 2 guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > babies (about 3
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > weeks old) and a golden snail. Yesterday I removed 2
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Dwarf African
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > frogs because I suspect they were eating guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > babies. We have had
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > this set up since December.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I can see the fish have ICH. I put some drops in the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > water from the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > store. It said not to use a carbon filter while
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > treating the water
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > for 10 or 12 days. Does that mean I leave the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > filter off?
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I have 2 bubblers in there- I originally had only
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > one but the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > were hanging out near the top so I suspected one
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > wasn't enough.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I am having a hard time with dying fish. Recently
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > lost 2 male
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > guppies- maybe from ICH? I only recently realized
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > this was going on.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I don't think the guppy fry that disappeared died;
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > no bodies.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Besides that, the frogs kept getting into their net
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > enclosure.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Incidently, yesterday we had 10 new guppy fry born
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > and I put them in
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > a separate tank for now. I hope to allow them to
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > grow up a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > before returning them to the big tank. I used the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > water from the big
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > tank for the fry, after it had been treated with ICH
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > meds.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I could use advice and instruction here!
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://messenger.yahoo.com/
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2274 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: mating behavior, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                          I was hoping someone could point me to a site that explains mating
                                                                                                                                                                                          behavior, etc.- specificly of guppies. I am wondering about
                                                                                                                                                                                          aggressive male behavior toward females, and female behavior before
                                                                                                                                                                                          the fry are born. I would like to be able to understand better
                                                                                                                                                                                          what's going on in there!
                                                                                                                                                                                          :>) MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2275 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: mating behavior, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                          http://caspar.bgsu.edu/~courses/Ethology/Labs/Guppy1/

                                                                                                                                                                                          Perhaps this could help.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Guppies are too volatile to figure out when the female is about to release
                                                                                                                                                                                          the fry. Normally, the female will become less active and preffer a quiter
                                                                                                                                                                                          corner in the tank just hours before releasing them. But these have been
                                                                                                                                                                                          proved wrong by many females I had kept.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                          Ps: if you have female guppies and a male, you most defiantly will have fry.

                                                                                                                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                          >From: Theresa Dostaler [mailto:mrsd@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                          >Sent: 27 May 2004 14:43
                                                                                                                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] mating behavior, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >I was hoping someone could point me to a site that explains mating
                                                                                                                                                                                          >behavior, etc.- specificly of guppies. I am wondering about
                                                                                                                                                                                          >aggressive male behavior toward females, and female behavior before
                                                                                                                                                                                          >the fry are born. I would like to be able to understand better
                                                                                                                                                                                          >what's going on in there!
                                                                                                                                                                                          >:>) MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2276 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                          To prevent disease occurrence in the future, the only thing is to be on top
                                                                                                                                                                                          of water quality. If the water quality is good then the fish will not be
                                                                                                                                                                                          stressed and their immune system will be able to prevent these things.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Some tips on maintaining good water quality:
                                                                                                                                                                                          Regular Water change
                                                                                                                                                                                          Good filter (ideally 2)
                                                                                                                                                                                          Presence of Aquatic plants
                                                                                                                                                                                          No overstocking
                                                                                                                                                                                          No over feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                          Maintaining a steady temperature
                                                                                                                                                                                          Regularly removing dead plant matter, excess food, fish poo and any dead or
                                                                                                                                                                                          decaying matter.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Checking and keeping Nitrates under control (all methods above except
                                                                                                                                                                                          temperature result to this)

                                                                                                                                                                                          Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                          >From: Theresa Dostaler [mailto:mrsd@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                          >Sent: 27 May 2004 14:41
                                                                                                                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >THanks; I didn't realize there were other kinds of filters. I will
                                                                                                                                                                                          >look into it.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >I have the heater set to 79-80 but will increase it.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >Unfortunately one of the young guppies died now. We had more born
                                                                                                                                                                                          >yesterday so I have about 20 in a separate tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >It is too bad there is no qick fix to thins problem! Is there a way
                                                                                                                                                                                          >to prevent it in the future?
                                                                                                                                                                                          >:>) MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                                                                                                                                                                          ><sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> HI,
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> welcome to the club.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Removing the carbon means just see what kind of filter
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> u are using and in the filter media if you carbon then
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> just remove that bag.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Keep the filter on awalys.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Do you have a heater in there if yes what is the temp
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> u have kept the tank at ??
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> You can increase the temp to 28 - 30'c or 80 - 82'F.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> There are several medications and preventatives
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> available including Super Ich by Aquatronics and
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Maracyn and Maracyn-Two by Mardel Laboratories.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Information: This is the most widespread and common
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> freshwater fish disease. The small pustules are
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> actually sacks of tiny protazoans. In a few days, the
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> sacks break open and the parasites fall into the
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> aquarium gravel where they multiply in great numbers.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> When mature, the new protazoans attack the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> fish. It is this lifecycle that makes Ich so
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> contagious. The protazoans will weaken the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> progressively by destroying the protective coating.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> The protazoans may only be destroyed after they have
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> left the sacks. When embedded in the aquarium gravel,
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> they are susceptible to medication. Therefore,
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> increasing the temperature of the water during
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> treatment can speed up the life cycle, causing the
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> pustules to break open quicker. After exposed, the
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> protazoans are killed before they can multiply.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Hope this helps...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> --- Theresa Dostaler <mrsd@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > Greetings!
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > I just joined because I am needing help with our
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > tank. I have a 15
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > gallon tank with 5 tetras, 2 female guppies, 2 guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > babies (about 3
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > weeks old) and a golden snail. Yesterday I removed 2
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > Dwarf African
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > frogs because I suspect they were eating guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > babies. We have had
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > this set up since December.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > I can see the fish have ICH. I put some drops in the
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > water from the
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > store. It said not to use a carbon filter while
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > treating the water
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > for 10 or 12 days. Does that mean I leave the
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > filter off?
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > I have 2 bubblers in there- I originally had only
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > one but the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > were hanging out near the top so I suspected one
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > wasn't enough.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > I am having a hard time with dying fish. Recently
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > lost 2 male
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > guppies- maybe from ICH? I only recently realized
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > this was going on.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > I don't think the guppy fry that disappeared died;
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > no bodies.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > Besides that, the frogs kept getting into their net
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > enclosure.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > Incidently, yesterday we had 10 new guppy fry born
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > and I put them in
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > a separate tank for now. I hope to allow them to
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > grow up a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > before returning them to the big tank. I used the
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > water from the big
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > tank for the fry, after it had been treated with ICH
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > meds.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > I could use advice and instruction here!
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> > MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >> http://messenger.yahoo.com/
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                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2277 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                          MrsD (sounds funny, like I'm talking inapproprietly to my Mom), I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                          a fan of Rid Ich or any of the dye remedies. I don't like anything
                                                                                                                                                                                          that'll kill off biological filtration, which will just compound your
                                                                                                                                                                                          problems. I would use Coppersafe of Aquarisol. Neither one of the
                                                                                                                                                                                          medicines would require you to remove the carbon, which is just another
                                                                                                                                                                                          place to grow good bacteria. Also, if you slowly increase your temp to
                                                                                                                                                                                          84* for a week, that'll speed up the parasites cycle and they can't form
                                                                                                                                                                                          that cyst that you identify as ich. While out of the cyst the meds work
                                                                                                                                                                                          very well. Inside, they are protected.

                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2278 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: mating behavior, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Always out number males with females. Having 2 or 3 or even more
                                                                                                                                                                                          females for every male will drop the stress on the females. Remember,
                                                                                                                                                                                          you have a closed environment, the females can't get away so you have to
                                                                                                                                                                                          diffuse the aggression.

                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2279 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Goldie Dying everyday ....
                                                                                                                                                                                          Are you turning your filter off at night? If so, please STOP! All
                                                                                                                                                                                          filtration must be running all the time or mst of the beneficial
                                                                                                                                                                                          bacteria die off, it's most likely ammonia that is killing your fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                          By your message, I assume you're using an undergravel filter, if this is
                                                                                                                                                                                          so, I suggest you add a hang on back power filter of some type. Penguin
                                                                                                                                                                                          330, Aqua Clear 300 or something along these types. What are your water
                                                                                                                                                                                          parameters, ammonia, nitrite, pH etc... Also, what is your maintenance
                                                                                                                                                                                          schedule? As for now, do a 50 % water change, then get back to us with
                                                                                                                                                                                          the info requested above.

                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2280 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                          How big are your goldies? The TetraTec should be adequit unless your
                                                                                                                                                                                          fish are too ig for the 20 gallon. Maybe overfeeding?

                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2281 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Sensing Doom
                                                                                                                                                                                          As with many small tetras, neons are very sensitive to the dangerous
                                                                                                                                                                                          conditions of a new tank. I don't allow any to leave my store unless
                                                                                                                                                                                          they are going to a mature tank of at least six months old, preferring
                                                                                                                                                                                          even a year or more. Another mistake is how they are introduced. You
                                                                                                                                                                                          know, float the bag, you want to see your new fish so you leave the
                                                                                                                                                                                          light on, wait 20 minutes and let them loose. The error there is this,
                                                                                                                                                                                          leaving the light on will super heat the air, thus the water in the bag.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Then, after warming them up nicely, the temp plummets upon release.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Another problem is pH shock. The pH in the bag will drop during
                                                                                                                                                                                          transport. Ammonia does this. My suggestion is this. Float the bag
                                                                                                                                                                                          after you turn off the light, wait ten minutes and cut the knot off the
                                                                                                                                                                                          top of the bag. Add a cup of water, wait ten minutes and repeat. Do
                                                                                                                                                                                          this until the bag is full. Then take the bag to the sink or a pail by
                                                                                                                                                                                          the tank and dump the fish into a net, then release them i the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                          This will acclimate your new fish to your tank conditions. You never
                                                                                                                                                                                          want any petstores water, that's why you net them. I treat my tanks at
                                                                                                                                                                                          work like they are my home tanks, but I never add any water from those
                                                                                                                                                                                          to my tanks, I get new fish in every week, I don't want to introduce
                                                                                                                                                                                          disease. Also, never buy fish that have just come in. Find out what
                                                                                                                                                                                          day your lfs get's they're fish and buy your new fish the day before
                                                                                                                                                                                          they get more. This lowers the overall stress, too many transports too
                                                                                                                                                                                          quickly can be devastating. Was this off topic? I'm not sure, but it
                                                                                                                                                                                          sounds like the folks in question are newbies and this info might be
                                                                                                                                                                                          helpful. Also, what's the water temp? 80* would be preferred. Some
                                                                                                                                                                                          starter tanks don't come with heaters, so if you don't have them, get
                                                                                                                                                                                          them.

                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2282 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                          sorry about your guppy loss.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Prevention is always better than cure, so in future

                                                                                                                                                                                          (1) whenever you buy any fishes make sure to spend
                                                                                                                                                                                          some time inspecting all the fishes in from the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                          you buy from. Even if any fish is infected dont buy
                                                                                                                                                                                          from that tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                          (2) Dont allow the LFS guy to stress the fish by
                                                                                                                                                                                          chasing too much since it gets stressed out, then
                                                                                                                                                                                          water changes etc etc..it will affect the fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                          (3) Always float the fish bag for atleast 30 - 40 mts
                                                                                                                                                                                          in the water/tank u plan to release it and slowly add
                                                                                                                                                                                          little little water into the fish bag before releasing
                                                                                                                                                                                          it into the tank. This will get it to aclmatise to the
                                                                                                                                                                                          tempr and water conditions gradually.

                                                                                                                                                                                          (4) Always Quarantine the new fishes before releasing
                                                                                                                                                                                          it into your community tank for atleast minimum 1 week
                                                                                                                                                                                          better 15 days or more.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Also a good LFS usually keeps his sick fishs in a
                                                                                                                                                                                          seperate tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Do regular water changes 25 - 30% every week, 1/2 the
                                                                                                                                                                                          gravel every week and you will have a healthy setup.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Giving the fishes clean water itself will keep away
                                                                                                                                                                                          lots of problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Sorry to have bored you but hope this helps....SuNnY !


                                                                                                                                                                                          --- Theresa Dostaler <mrsd@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                          > THanks; I didn't realize there were other kinds of
                                                                                                                                                                                          > filters. I will
                                                                                                                                                                                          > look into it.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have the heater set to 79-80 but will increase it.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Unfortunately one of the young guppies died now. We
                                                                                                                                                                                          > had more born
                                                                                                                                                                                          > yesterday so I have about 20 in a separate tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > It is too bad there is no qick fix to thins problem!
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Is there a way
                                                                                                                                                                                          > to prevent it in the future?
                                                                                                                                                                                          > :>) MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                          > sunil kamath
                                                                                                                                                                                          > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > HI,
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > welcome to the club.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Removing the carbon means just see what kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                          > filter
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > u are using and in the filter media if you carbon
                                                                                                                                                                                          > then
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > just remove that bag.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Keep the filter on awalys.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Do you have a heater in there if yes what is the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > temp
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > u have kept the tank at ??
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > You can increase the temp to 28 - 30'c or 80 -
                                                                                                                                                                                          > 82'F.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > There are several medications and preventatives
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > available including Super Ich by Aquatronics and
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Maracyn and Maracyn-Two by Mardel Laboratories.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Information: This is the most widespread and
                                                                                                                                                                                          > common
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > freshwater fish disease. The small pustules are
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > actually sacks of tiny protazoans. In a few days,
                                                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > sacks break open and the parasites fall into the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > aquarium gravel where they multiply in great
                                                                                                                                                                                          > numbers.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > When mature, the new protazoans attack the rest of
                                                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > fish. It is this lifecycle that makes Ich so
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > contagious. The protazoans will weaken the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > progressively by destroying the protective
                                                                                                                                                                                          > coating.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > The protazoans may only be destroyed after they
                                                                                                                                                                                          > have
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > left the sacks. When embedded in the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                          > gravel,
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > they are susceptible to medication. Therefore,
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > increasing the temperature of the water during
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > treatment can speed up the life cycle, causing the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > pustules to break open quicker. After exposed, the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > protazoans are killed before they can multiply.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Hope this helps...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > --- Theresa Dostaler <mrsd@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Greetings!
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I just joined because I am needing help with our
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > tank. I have a 15
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > gallon tank with 5 tetras, 2 female guppies, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                          > guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > babies (about 3
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > weeks old) and a golden snail. Yesterday I
                                                                                                                                                                                          > removed 2
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Dwarf African
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > frogs because I suspect they were eating guppy
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > babies. We have had
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > this set up since December.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I can see the fish have ICH. I put some drops in
                                                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > water from the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > store. It said not to use a carbon filter while
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > treating the water
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > for 10 or 12 days. Does that mean I leave the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > filter off?
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I have 2 bubblers in there- I originally had
                                                                                                                                                                                          > only
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > one but the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > were hanging out near the top so I suspected one
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > wasn't enough.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I am having a hard time with dying fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Recently
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > lost 2 male
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > guppies- maybe from ICH? I only recently
                                                                                                                                                                                          > realized
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > this was going on.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I don't think the guppy fry that disappeared
                                                                                                                                                                                          > died;
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > no bodies.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Besides that, the frogs kept getting into their
                                                                                                                                                                                          > net
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > enclosure.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Incidently, yesterday we had 10 new guppy fry
                                                                                                                                                                                          > born
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > and I put them in
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > a separate tank for now. I hope to allow them to
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > grow up a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > before returning them to the big tank. I used
                                                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > water from the big
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > tank for the fry, after it had been treated with
                                                                                                                                                                                          > ICH
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > meds.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I could use advice and instruction here!
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
                                                                                                                                                                                          > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/
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                                                                                                                                                                                          >





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                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2283 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Newbie; fish with ich
                                                                                                                                                                                          2 that are about 2inches (body not including tail, about 3 1/2 inches with the tail). 2 that are about 1 inch (body only not including tail, about 2 inches with tail). I also have 4 albino corydora catfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                          Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                          From: bucks_boogie@... [mailto:bucks_boogie@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 5:31 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Newbie; fish with ich

                                                                                                                                                                                          How big are your goldies?  The TetraTec should be adequit unless your
                                                                                                                                                                                          fish are too ig for the 20 gallon.  Maybe overfeeding?

                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"


                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2284 From: setya_one Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi all,

                                                                                                                                                                                          I'd like to introduce myself. I am a new member here. My name is
                                                                                                                                                                                          Irwan S Utomo and I come from Indonesia, source of many ornamental
                                                                                                                                                                                          fishes. Hope i will get many friends and knowledge about fish here.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2285 From: sunil kamath Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi Irwan,

                                                                                                                                                                                          Welcome to the group.....SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                          --- setya_one <irwan.s.utomo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Hi all,
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          > I'd like to introduce myself. I am a new member
                                                                                                                                                                                          > here. My name is
                                                                                                                                                                                          > Irwan S Utomo and I come from Indonesia, source of
                                                                                                                                                                                          > many ornamental
                                                                                                                                                                                          > fishes. Hope i will get many friends and knowledge
                                                                                                                                                                                          > about fish here.
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                          >





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                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2286 From: anuar Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi Irwan S Utomo... nice knowing you from Indonesia... What type of fish you have and see the pics of fish...
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            babai.. 
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: 05/28/04 17:20:07
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi all,

                                                                                                                                                                                            I'd like to introduce myself. I am a new member here. My name is
                                                                                                                                                                                            Irwan S Utomo and I come from Indonesia, source of many ornamental
                                                                                                                                                                                            fishes. Hope i will get many friends and knowledge about fish here.



                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                              IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2287 From: irwan.s.utomo@id.pwc.com Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                            I have koi, gourami, and goldfish (ranchu). i have two ponds, one for koi
                                                                                                                                                                                            and one for gourami. I keep my goldfish in aquarium. Are u from malaysia?

                                                                                                                                                                                            Best Regards,

                                                                                                                                                                                            Irwan Setyawan Utomo



                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi Irwan S Utomo... nice knowing you from Indonesia... What type of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                            you have and see the pics of fish...

                                                                                                                                                                                            babai..

                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi all,

                                                                                                                                                                                            I'd like to introduce myself. I am a new member here. My name is
                                                                                                                                                                                            Irwan S Utomo and I come from Indonesia, source of many ornamental
                                                                                                                                                                                            fishes. Hope i will get many friends and knowledge about fish here.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2288 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Learning lots
                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you all for the info. I can see several things I have done
                                                                                                                                                                                            wrong but I hope to correct this. I am still a bit upset over this
                                                                                                                                                                                            ICK problem. I have lost another one today- one of the tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Perhaps because I had turned off the filter. I have it running right
                                                                                                                                                                                            now, and I am about to go put the carbon filter back in it and start
                                                                                                                                                                                            with different meds- the ones recommended.
                                                                                                                                                                                            I was interested in the comments about buying just-in fish (I did
                                                                                                                                                                                            that once and they were dead before morning) and not using the store
                                                                                                                                                                                            water. I am also realizing more and more that the owner of this new
                                                                                                                                                                                            store I have been buying at is not any more knowledgeable than I-
                                                                                                                                                                                            and perhaps less so. I had been depending on her for information,
                                                                                                                                                                                            and look where it got me!

                                                                                                                                                                                            I am trying to visualize a tank with no dying fish and no problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                            I was about to give up before I found this group but I will keep at
                                                                                                                                                                                            it and keep asking questions. I have about 24 fry right now so maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                            life will be better for them!

                                                                                                                                                                                            :>) MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2289 From: Theresa Dostaler Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: guppy fry
                                                                                                                                                                                            I have about 24 guppy fry right now. I removed them from the big
                                                                                                                                                                                            tank to preserve their lives. I got the frogs out of that tank (I am
                                                                                                                                                                                            sure they were eating the fry) and I was considering putting one of
                                                                                                                                                                                            those net enclosures in there to keep the fry (since I don't have to
                                                                                                                                                                                            worry about frogs jumping into it any more) however... the tank has
                                                                                                                                                                                            ICH.
                                                                                                                                                                                            THe little tank they are now in has the same water from the big tank
                                                                                                                                                                                            and there is no heater in it, just a bubbler.
                                                                                                                                                                                            WHich is worse... being in an unheated, unfiltered, little tank or
                                                                                                                                                                                            being in a big tank with dying fish and ICH? I could use some advice
                                                                                                                                                                                            here!
                                                                                                                                                                                            MrsD
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2290 From: freedombell2002 Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi Irwan

                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm Sherrie From Las Vegas Nevada USA. I have 4 tanks, one 5 hex
                                                                                                                                                                                            tank, a 10 gallon and a 40 gallon all freshwater and I also have a 30
                                                                                                                                                                                            gallon reef tank. "just wanted to say hello and welcome"


                                                                                                                                                                                            Sherrie


                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "setya_one"
                                                                                                                                                                                            <irwan.s.utomo@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hi all,
                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                            > I'd like to introduce myself. I am a new member here. My name is
                                                                                                                                                                                            > Irwan S Utomo and I come from Indonesia, source of many ornamental
                                                                                                                                                                                            > fishes. Hope i will get many friends and knowledge about fish here.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2291 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: ideas for feeding plecostamus?
                                                                                                                                                                                            I have one plecostamus in my livebearer tank mixed in with the mollies and platies. Recently I observed one of my larger adult female mollies literally stealing the algae tablet out from under the mouth of the plecostamus. Up until then, I was under the assumption that the pleco was actually able to eat these tablets, but continued observation has shown me that the MOLLIES are stealing them and eating them all up.

                                                                                                                                                                                            So ... how do I make sure that the pleco gets all he needs? Do I need to drop in more than just one nightly algae wafer? Do I need to supplement the diet of all fish in the tank? Right now I'm soaking some driftwood to get it ready to put in the tank ... then will look into some tougher leaved plants. Until then, I'm wondering if I need to increase the algae tablets to make sure that everyone gets what they need.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Current population of 15 gallon tank :
                                                                                                                                                                                            - 3 female red wag platies (two adult, one young)
                                                                                                                                                                                            - 11 mollies (2 adult females, 4 fry males, 5 fry females -- was planning on taking 2 or 3 of the male fry to LFS in a couple of days when we go to get our daughter her Betta)
                                                                                                                                                                                            - 1 common plecostamus

                                                                                                                                                                                            Current feeding schedule :
                                                                                                                                                                                            - every morning .... sprinkle of tetra color tropical flakes
                                                                                                                                                                                            - every evening ... sprinkle of tetra color tropical flakes, drop in one algae tablet just before turning off light
                                                                                                                                                                                            - Tuesday afternoon ... one cube tubifex worms (freeze dried)
                                                                                                                                                                                            - Thursday afternoon ... one slice zucchini (bought fresh, washed, sliced, then frozen)

                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you for any ideas to ease the food competition. I feel horrible for the poor plecostamus, I just feel like he's not getting the nutrition he needs.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2292 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Volcanit Substrate

                                                                                                                                                                                            Any one ever used Volcanit from AB Aquamedic? It is black and red substrate for planted tanks..PH neutral but not like Flourite.

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2293 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Volcanit Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                            What does Flourite do? Any place I can read more info about it?
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                            Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:52 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                            Cc: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com; aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Volcanit Substrate

                                                                                                                                                                                            Any one ever used Volcanit from AB Aquamedic? It is black and red substrate for planted tanks..PH neutral but not like Flourite.

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2294 From: emijer emijer Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                            hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                            I am new here as well. my children and I just aquired
                                                                                                                                                                                            some new fish. 1 shark (jaws), 1 lobster or crayfish
                                                                                                                                                                                            (larry), 1 crab (mr. crabs), 1 bumble bee (bea), 1
                                                                                                                                                                                            yellow fish (spongebob), and 2 others that I do not
                                                                                                                                                                                            know what type they are but they are all aggressive
                                                                                                                                                                                            and able to be in the same tank. they are named sandy
                                                                                                                                                                                            & ralph. So far they are all doing great! we have
                                                                                                                                                                                            them housed in a 20 gallong long tank. I am hoping to
                                                                                                                                                                                            get a lot of info and meet some new friends in this
                                                                                                                                                                                            group.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Heidi from Connecticut





                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                            Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://messenger.yahoo.com/
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2295 From: captaininsane357 Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: ideas for feeding plecostamus?
                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                            Witchywmn42@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                            > I have one plecostamus in my livebearer tank mixed in with the
                                                                                                                                                                                            mollies and
                                                                                                                                                                                            > platies. Recently I observed one of my larger adult female mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                            literally
                                                                                                                                                                                            > stealing the algae tablet out from under the mouth of the
                                                                                                                                                                                            plecostamus. Up until
                                                                                                                                                                                            > then, I was under the assumption that the pleco was actually able
                                                                                                                                                                                            to eat these
                                                                                                                                                                                            > tablets, but continued observation has shown me that the MOLLIES
                                                                                                                                                                                            are stealing
                                                                                                                                                                                            > them and eating them all up.
                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                            > So ... how do I make sure that the pleco gets all he needs?

                                                                                                                                                                                            You might try just waiting a bit longer after you turn the lights
                                                                                                                                                                                            off before dropping in the algae disk.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Might give the mollies more time to get to sleep, and the pleco
                                                                                                                                                                                            will be out foraging in the dark anyway.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2296 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi Heidi,
                                                                                                                                                                                            Welcome to the group, I am learning a lot of good information in this club and I am sure you will too.
                                                                                                                                                                                            duchess562000

                                                                                                                                                                                            emijer emijer <emijer@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                            hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                            I am new here as well.  my children and I just aquired
                                                                                                                                                                                            some new fish.  1 shark (jaws), 1 lobster or crayfish
                                                                                                                                                                                            (larry), 1 crab (mr. crabs), 1 bumble bee (bea), 1
                                                                                                                                                                                            yellow fish (spongebob), and 2 others that I do not
                                                                                                                                                                                            know what type they are but they are all aggressive
                                                                                                                                                                                            and able to be in the same tank. they are named sandy
                                                                                                                                                                                            & ralph.  So far they are all doing great!  we have
                                                                                                                                                                                            them housed in a 20 gallong long tank.  I am hoping to
                                                                                                                                                                                            get a lot of info and meet some new friends in this
                                                                                                                                                                                            group.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Heidi from Connecticut



                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                            Friends.  Fun.  Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
                                                                                                                                                                                            http://messenger.yahoo.com/



                                                                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                            Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger

                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2297 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 5/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi Irwan,
                                                                                                                                                                                            Welcome to the club! I am sure you will enjoy it very much!
                                                                                                                                                                                            duchess562000

                                                                                                                                                                                            setya_one <irwan.s.utomo@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi all,

                                                                                                                                                                                            I'd like to introduce myself. I am a new member here. My name is
                                                                                                                                                                                            Irwan S Utomo and I come from Indonesia, source of many ornamental
                                                                                                                                                                                            fishes. Hope i will get many friends and knowledge about fish here.




                                                                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                            Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger

                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2298 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Volcanit Substrate

                                                                                                                                                                                            Rei,

                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Flourite.html

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            Flourite is a gravel designed for the planted aquarium. There are many others of this type: eco-complete, onyx sand, volcanit, flora base, etc. these are regular gravels with a porous structure and some quantity of trace elements already present to provide plants with a ready source of nutrients.

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            If you search on google for fluorite+aquarium, you will get millions of links.. even probably for eco-complete which is a new gravel. However there is not much information on the net available for Volcanit which is black in color and better looking them fluorite or eco-complete.

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Rei - Raymond Tremor [mailto:r.tremor@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: 29 May 2004 03:27
                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Volcanit Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                            Importance: High

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            What does Flourite do? Any place I can read more info about it?

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                            Rei - Raymond Tremor

                                                                                                                                                                                            E-mail: LoveMoAko@...

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:52 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                            Cc: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com ; aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Volcanit Substrate

                                                                                                                                                                                            Any one ever used Volcanit from AB Aquamedic? It is black and red substrate for planted tanks..PH neutral but not like Flourite.

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                             




                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2299 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Okay
                                                                                                                                                                                            We have one of those 'hang off the side of the tank' filters with the
                                                                                                                                                                                            plastic insert in a white spongy filter and some carbon to sprinkle
                                                                                                                                                                                            inside it. Do I understand ya'll to say that we should not actually
                                                                                                                                                                                            change this out, but just squeeze it out? Or should I change the
                                                                                                                                                                                            white spongy thing, but reuse the carbon for the bacteria? I tried
                                                                                                                                                                                            washing out the filters once when we were too broke to buy new ones,
                                                                                                                                                                                            but it didn't seem to work well, maybe because I used tap water?

                                                                                                                                                                                            I was also wondering if I could use some of the old filter carbon in
                                                                                                                                                                                            the next tank when we set it back up to jumpstart the bacterial
                                                                                                                                                                                            action? just kind of replace half the carbon in the old filter?

                                                                                                                                                                                            We'll give the neon tetras another try...80 degrees, don't do the
                                                                                                                                                                                            floaty at the top of the tank with the light on, net the fish instead
                                                                                                                                                                                            of adding water...how about ph...what ph is best for the little
                                                                                                                                                                                            buggers, and can they share the same tanke with guppies, platy's
                                                                                                                                                                                            etc...? Do they lay eggs? And how does one get them to lay, not
                                                                                                                                                                                            that I'm thinking of breeding them, I'm just curious.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2300 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Okay
                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 5/29/2004 9:02:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                            We have one of those 'hang off the side of the tank' filters with the
                                                                                                                                                                                            plastic insert in a white spongy filter and some carbon to sprinkle
                                                                                                                                                                                            inside it.  Do I understand ya'll to say that we should not actually
                                                                                                                                                                                            change this out, but just squeeze it out?  Or should I change the
                                                                                                                                                                                            white spongy thing, but reuse the carbon for the bacteria?  I tried
                                                                                                                                                                                            washing out the filters once when we were too broke to buy new ones,
                                                                                                                                                                                            but it didn't seem to work well, maybe because I used tap water?


                                                                                                                                                                                            I have the same type of filter. I tried rinsing out the filter insert ONCE ... and after having to fish stray bits of carbon out of my bathroom sink, I decided it was less hassle to just replace the dang things. Carbon loses its effectiveness as it ages ... so I'd probably NOT reuse the carbon itself. The filter mechanism, as you may have started to notice with your changes, does get some buildup inside it. You should occasionally clean that out with filter brushes (although, to be frank, I bought baby bottle brushes for cheaper, and they work just the same) but I think the black part that goes inside the filter bag may accumulate the bacteria. Also the gravel and any decorations you have in your tank will.

                                                                                                                                                                                            There *are* things you can buy that are specifically designed to collect beneficial bacteria. It is completely up to you whether you think you need them, or not. From what I understand by reading up on these products, you just drop them into your filter setup, so the water flows through them. I personally don't have any in my tank, but it is your choice whether or not you think it will help your fish. Medications WILL affect the bacteria that develop in these things.

                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2301 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: advice needed
                                                                                                                                                                                            lordy i know i have said in the past that i have had such good luck with my fish and all but i thought i had killed them all last night.. i was redoing the tank.. putting live plants in.. and cleanign it out... anyway so when i do i take about 10 gallons out... which has worked in the past.. and this time i had forgot to turn off my power strip with the heater attached and well the damn heater blew up and exploded all over .. mostl in my hands... burned myself really good... and at 10 i am searching stores for a new heater.. cause of course i have like no water in the tank the fish are stressed and i am like bawling.... but good news i got the filter which was way too expensive... i filled the tank have the plants in there not where i like them but they are in.. and all the fish are still alive so i guess the next few days well tell... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2302 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                            ok so i posted about my drama with me adding live plants to my tank this week.. well i still cant find one of my cory catfishes... i dont think it was poissible that i sucked it up when i vacumned... i think she was too big and i dont think the sucktion could even suck up a neon tetra... anyhow it cant be in my filter.. there is no way... so where is it... i am very concerned.. any ideas anyone... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2303 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't know what to say, but I found one of my Corys, apparently mummified, (could have been the air-cinditioning which keeps the summer air dry, which I also used to keep the temperature down in the aquarium in hot weather) during cleaning a few years ago. Must have jumped-tank when I forgot to cover the tank. You don't have a cat or anything?
                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2304 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                              i actually do have a cat but she is old and could care less about the tank.. which is also covered so she coudnt have gotten inside.. i was thinking mabye it jumped out but then i dont see how cuase i would have seen it when i was vacumning how sad in your finding.. so the decomposting woudlnt smell then is that cuase they are small... thanks for your help.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                              don't know what to say, but I found one of my Corys, apparently mummified, (could have been the air-cinditioning which keeps the summer air dry, which I also used to keep the temperature down in the aquarium in hot weather) during cleaning a few years ago. Must have jumped-tank when I forgot to cover the tank. You don't have a cat or anything?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2305 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                The Cory did'nt decompose, at least not visibly. The appearance was that of a fish as done by a taxidermist (but they remove the internal parts to some or a great extent), . But light and solid. The only explanation I have is the air-conditioning (cold air drops) and the de-humidifying aspect of it (dessication is not buffered by high humidity). Also the size of the fish. ( Not a lot of material to dry).
                                                                                                                                                                                                Also, my aquarium stand, along with housekeeping practices, concealed the fish 'till thorough (or nearly thorough) cleaning discovered somewhere beside or beneath the stand. One side was almost directly against the wall (I did'nt often clean there), and the bottom had a shelf installed, to accomodate a sump. Beneath the shelf is impossible to thoroughly clean.
                                                                                                                                                                                                There's also the possibility your senior cat found her instincts. The Cory has, however, fins that act as barbs that cause a predator to realize there are two extended fins with spikes that prevent swallowing. I don't know if it's possible to avoid that problem by swallowing the fish frontwards first, causing the possible collapse of the defense.
                                                                                                                                                                                                A fish can flop about a while after escape, and the Cory has the capacity to travel over ground for short periods. The reason the Cory broaches the surface frequently is to gulp air to store for use in oxygenation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2306 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                                very intresting joe thanks for that... i had no idea... im giogn to look around for him lol i have been thinking like all kinds of things like did i cut him in half yikes when like vacumning or did he get sucked up and thrown out. which mymom who was holding and watching the bucket said no he didnt.... my cat just cant get in there cause of the top on the tank also she can bearly get on my bed let alone twice the distance on top of the tank.. i have one albino catfish left i am giogn tolook at him more closely to see those fins.. that is so cool... there is definately more waste and left over plants left in my tank now so i need to think about getting a replacement.. any ideas.. i want to do something different i think i have a algea eater already.. but i cant do something to big as i am at full capacity and i need to get a few neon tetras cuase i have a lone one that i feel bad for... your help has been awsome thanks so much for your time joe.. .shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                The Cory did'nt decompose, at least not visibly. The appearance was that of a fish as done by a taxidermist (but they remove the internal parts to some or a great extent), . But light and solid. The only explanation I have is the air-conditioning (cold air drops) and the de-humidifying aspect of it (dessication is not buffered by high humidity). Also the size of the fish. ( Not a lot of material to dry).
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Also, my aquarium stand, along with housekeeping practices, concealed the fish 'till thorough (or nearly thorough) cleaning discovered somewhere beside or beneath the stand. One side was almost directly against the wall (I did'nt often clean there), and the bottom had a shelf installed, to accomodate a sump. Beneath the shelf is impossible to thoroughly clean.
                                                                                                                                                                                                   There's also the possibility your senior cat found her instincts. The Cory has, however, fins that act as barbs that cause a predator to realize there are two extended fins with spikes that prevent swallowing. I don't know if it's possible to avoid that problem by swallowing the fish frontwards first, causing the possible collapse of the defense.
                                                                                                                                                                                                   A fish can flop about a while after escape, and the Cory has the capacity to travel over ground for short periods. The reason the Cory broaches the surface frequently is to gulp air to store for use in oxygenation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2307 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 5/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Volcanit Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                nim, thanks a lot for the info.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:39 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Volcanit Substrate

                                                                                                                                                                                                Rei,

                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Flourite.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                Flourite is a gravel designed for the planted aquarium. There are many others of this type: eco-complete, onyx sand, volcanit, flora base, etc. these are regular gravels with a porous structure and some quantity of trace elements already present to provide plants with a ready source of nutrients.

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                If you search on google for fluorite+aquarium, you will get millions of links.. even probably for eco-complete which is a new gravel. However there is not much information on the net available for Volcanit which is black in color and better looking them fluorite or eco-complete.

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Rei - Raymond Tremor [mailto:r.tremor@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 29 May 2004 03:27
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Volcanit Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                Importance: High

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                What does Flourite do? Any place I can read more info about it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                                Rei - Raymond Tremor

                                                                                                                                                                                                E-mail: LoveMoAko@...

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Nimish Mathur [mailto:nimmat4@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:52 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Cc: freshwateraquariums@yahoogroups.com ; aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Volcanit Substrate

                                                                                                                                                                                                Any one ever used Volcanit from AB Aquamedic? It is black and red substrate for planted tanks..PH neutral but not like Flourite.

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                 





                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2308 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: FW: Brackish Water Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                I've been reading the list for a couple of weeks now, but generally do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                have the time to respond to any of the posts. In fact, I am almost all
                                                                                                                                                                                                caught up on my e-mail from the past week, and feel like I do have some time
                                                                                                                                                                                                right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                This is more or less in response to the thread about mollies and adding salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                to their water. When one purchases mollies in the store these days, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                so far removed from their origins that any addition of salt is generally
                                                                                                                                                                                                unnecessary. However, also keep in mind that, despite the folklore, mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                are not a beginner fish. In order to do well with mollies, you cannot
                                                                                                                                                                                                neglect their diet, probably more important than whether salt is added to
                                                                                                                                                                                                the tank water or not. Mollies require a diet high in vegetable matter,
                                                                                                                                                                                                particularly algae. If you can provide them with such a diet, they will do
                                                                                                                                                                                                well. This means that the tank should be allowed to grow some algae for
                                                                                                                                                                                                their benefit. The idea of a super clean tank with crystal clear water is
                                                                                                                                                                                                really against the grain for what many fish need.

                                                                                                                                                                                                If you feel you must recreate a natural environment of some sort for
                                                                                                                                                                                                mollies, take an inventory of your tank. Not all fish will do well with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                addition of salt to the water. Also, there are not many plants that will do
                                                                                                                                                                                                well in such an environment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I'd suggest that you buy a bag of salt meant for creating a marine
                                                                                                                                                                                                environment. Yes, it is more expensive than the table salt, the kosher salt,
                                                                                                                                                                                                and other salts mentioned in the mollie thread. However, it also contains
                                                                                                                                                                                                trace elements that the other salts do not. Also buy yourself a hygrometer
                                                                                                                                                                                                and learn how to use it. Generally, you will want a measurement somewhere
                                                                                                                                                                                                between 1.005 and 1.010.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Once you are ready to start, add a small amount of salt to a container of
                                                                                                                                                                                                water and mix it thoroughly, then add it to your aquarium. You probably
                                                                                                                                                                                                would want to start with something like a tablespoon of salt mix for a 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                gallon tank. Proceed to slowly increase the salinity each week until you
                                                                                                                                                                                                reach a level that you and your fish seem to be comfortable with, probably
                                                                                                                                                                                                somewhere between 1.005 and 1.008 for the mollies. Once you have reached the
                                                                                                                                                                                                desired level, the real trick comes in. Vary the level of salinity by
                                                                                                                                                                                                0.001-0.003 through your normal water changes and adding no salt to a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                more than you need to maintain a steady level of salinity. This will benefit
                                                                                                                                                                                                the fish as the level of salinity is not maintained in a natural
                                                                                                                                                                                                environment. As mentioned above with the care of your tank, be a bit messy
                                                                                                                                                                                                about it, Nature certainly is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                As with salinity levels, and the cleanliness of your tank, the temperature
                                                                                                                                                                                                should also be varied somewhat. Increase or decrease the setting of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                heater thermostat when you happen to think of it. It only has to be a degree
                                                                                                                                                                                                or two, but it should be sufficient to keep things interesting for your
                                                                                                                                                                                                fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Above all, read, read, read about your fish. Join lists such as this one
                                                                                                                                                                                                (and there are many others). Find yourself a local club or society--they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                out there, and you can talk with people who have similar interests to yours,
                                                                                                                                                                                                and, more importantly, you can see how they do it themselves. (Follow the
                                                                                                                                                                                                first link in my tag to find a partial listing of aquariums clubs and
                                                                                                                                                                                                societies.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2309 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Dwarf Gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                                Last week there was some discussion on the dwarf gouramis on this list. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                have kept them extensively in the great distant past, and I would suspect
                                                                                                                                                                                                that nothing has really changed other than the number of color varieties
                                                                                                                                                                                                that have come to dominate the scene to the point that one can not find the
                                                                                                                                                                                                naturally colored dwarf gourami as well as a couple of the scientific names
                                                                                                                                                                                                of the group we can refer to as dwarf gouramis.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Gouramis as a whole are not nice fish. They show aggression to conspecifics
                                                                                                                                                                                                as well as others. Dwarf gouramis are no different. However, dwarf gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                                are often listed in the literature as being timid fish, and that often
                                                                                                                                                                                                follows through to the advice you receive from others. My experience has
                                                                                                                                                                                                mostly been the opposite. Dwarf gouramis will often dominate the tank they
                                                                                                                                                                                                are in, if kept in a community setting. You just need to provide the proper
                                                                                                                                                                                                conditions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I've always kept the dwarfs in a well planted tank, either a species tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                in which a hierarchy will soon develop, or in a community type setting. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                would suspect that any tank that provided the fish with the opportunity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                retreat to cover when they feel threatened would induce the behavior common
                                                                                                                                                                                                to gouramis as a whole. Once the tank has been set up and the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                introduced, you may not see the fish much for several days as they become
                                                                                                                                                                                                used to their new surroundings and establish territories within the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Once this has been accomplished, the fish will often be out in the open,
                                                                                                                                                                                                doing the things that are done naturally--bullying, bluffing, courting,
                                                                                                                                                                                                protecting their turf, begging for food, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                If one is intent on breeding the fish, a slow aeration and/or filter flow is
                                                                                                                                                                                                recommended. The male, when ready, will build the bubblenest and incorporate
                                                                                                                                                                                                bits and pieces of the plants in it to help hold it together. He will then
                                                                                                                                                                                                court the females until one acquiesces to his advances. They will go through
                                                                                                                                                                                                the courtship, and eggs will be placed in the nest. At this point I would
                                                                                                                                                                                                often remove the rest of the fish from the tank, or place a barrier between
                                                                                                                                                                                                the male and the nest to avoid raids on the nest from the other inhabitants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Post hatching would engender the capture of the fry and placement in a tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                with shallow water and a very tight lid to provide the requisite humidity
                                                                                                                                                                                                above the water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                For those of you interested in the dwarfs, keep an eye out for the naturally
                                                                                                                                                                                                colored _Colisa lalia_. I think that when properly maintained, you'll agree
                                                                                                                                                                                                with me that they are the most beautiful of any of the varieties that have
                                                                                                                                                                                                been developed from them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2310 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: opinions welcome
                                                                                                                                                                                                What are ya'lls experience with mail order places for fish and plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                online? I don't do ebay, but I've found some places that offer
                                                                                                                                                                                                different fish and such, and others for plants online. Petsmart
                                                                                                                                                                                                never fills me with confidence, there always being dead fish, frogs,
                                                                                                                                                                                                shrimp and stuff floating around in their tanks, and only one person
                                                                                                                                                                                                who can answer my questions (only on duty on the day the fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                                delivered and plopped right into tanks). And the only other place I
                                                                                                                                                                                                knew about here in Belleville closed a week after I discovered it
                                                                                                                                                                                                (figures).

                                                                                                                                                                                                At first I was thinking it would be too stressful to order online,
                                                                                                                                                                                                but then I thought, if it is direct from a breeder, it would be less
                                                                                                                                                                                                stressful than being packed up, sent to petsmart, plopped in a tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                with dead and dying fish, and then being constantly chased around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                tank by the net for a week or so before I bought it and transported
                                                                                                                                                                                                it home again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                What are your thoughts? Any recommendations for sources?
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2311 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: opinions welcome
                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/30/2004 2:10:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                What are your thoughts?  Any recommendations for sources?
                                                                                                                                                                                                aquabid.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2312 From: anuar Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, I am originally from Malaysia.  been to my country before???
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Msg me if you free yahoo Msger - myrocky71@yahoo.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Chiow..
                                                                                                                                                                                                  take care 
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 05/28/04 19:20:13
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have koi, gourami, and goldfish (ranchu). i have two ponds, one for koi
                                                                                                                                                                                                  and one for gourami. I keep my goldfish in aquarium. Are u from malaysia?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Best Regards,

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Irwan Setyawan Utomo


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi Irwan S Utomo... nice knowing you from Indonesia... What type of fish  
                                                                                                                                                                                                  you have and see the pics of fish...                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                  babai..                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi all,                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'd like to introduce myself. I am a new member here. My name is          
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Irwan S Utomo and I come from Indonesia, source of many ornamental        
                                                                                                                                                                                                  fishes. Hope i will get many friends and knowledge about fish here.          


                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                    IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2313 From: Steve Szabo Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: opinions welcome
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Cynthia,

                                                                                                                                                                                                  You say you are from Belleville, but not which Belleville. Illinois? New
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Jersey? Arkansas? Kansas? Michigan? Pennsylvania? Wisconsin? West Virginia?
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Alabama? Indiana?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  There could be a good store near you in a close by town or city, or even
                                                                                                                                                                                                  better a club or society near you. The club or society could put you in
                                                                                                                                                                                                  contact with a number of good local people who raise fish. Many have monthly
                                                                                                                                                                                                  auctions, in which fish are available along with hardware for your tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  These people can also lead you to good places to shop.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  I haven't done mail order in many years, but I do know a good place that I
                                                                                                                                                                                                  used to use was Daleco for hardware--pumps, filters, valves, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  For fish, most of them come from others in the hobby, or contacts I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                  made over the years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  To locate a club in your area, you might try
                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.petsforum.com/was/clubso.html, though it is far from complete.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  For some mail order places, try
                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.petsforum.com/was/mail_order.html, but it is buyer beware, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                  you might want to check back after you have selected a few possibilities.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  With this being a long holiday weekend, communications are likely to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                  sparse, and when people come back and start catching up on e-mail, your
                                                                                                                                                                                                  original request may be overlooked. As noted in a couple of earlier posts I
                                                                                                                                                                                                  made today, I have been reading this list, but have been too busy otherwise
                                                                                                                                                                                                  to find time to make replies to specific messages. Others may feel that way
                                                                                                                                                                                                  as they get back into the swing after the weekend. Personally, I look
                                                                                                                                                                                                  forward to long holiday weekends, even if I stay at home, as my weekly
                                                                                                                                                                                                  e-mail load lessens considerably.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: cynthia brennemann [mailto:brennewoman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:10 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opinions welcome


                                                                                                                                                                                                  What are ya'lls experience with mail order places for fish and plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                  online? I don't do ebay, but I've found some places that offer
                                                                                                                                                                                                  different fish and such, and others for plants online. Petsmart
                                                                                                                                                                                                  never fills me with confidence, there always being dead fish, frogs,
                                                                                                                                                                                                  shrimp and stuff floating around in their tanks, and only one person
                                                                                                                                                                                                  who can answer my questions (only on duty on the day the fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                                  delivered and plopped right into tanks). And the only other place I
                                                                                                                                                                                                  knew about here in Belleville closed a week after I discovered it
                                                                                                                                                                                                  (figures).

                                                                                                                                                                                                  At first I was thinking it would be too stressful to order online,
                                                                                                                                                                                                  but then I thought, if it is direct from a breeder, it would be less
                                                                                                                                                                                                  stressful than being packed up, sent to petsmart, plopped in a tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                  with dead and dying fish, and then being constantly chased around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                  tank by the net for a week or so before I bought it and transported
                                                                                                                                                                                                  it home again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  What are your thoughts? Any recommendations for sources?





                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2314 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hey, anyone from Malaysia, take your darn snails back!!!!!!!! Ha, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                  are taking over at my store, they're almost as bad as the macaw that
                                                                                                                                                                                                  beckones all day.... :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2315 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: guppy fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                  MrsD, this has most likely been addressed, but, anyway, put them in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                  tank, they will NOT survive in a net breeder. The stress from light and
                                                                                                                                                                                                  a lack of hiding places will kill them. It's as simple as stress. No
                                                                                                                                                                                                  hiding places, death in a day or two. As long as you use ammo chips in
                                                                                                                                                                                                  an uncycled tank, the ammonia will be removed and they will live long
                                                                                                                                                                                                  enough for transfer. You can use this opportunity to cycle another
                                                                                                                                                                                                  filter on your main tank for just this situation. Keep an Aqua Clear
                                                                                                                                                                                                  mini or a Penguin mini running and when you have to switch it,cut a hole
                                                                                                                                                                                                  in a Aqua Clear mini sponge and put it over the intake so you don't suck
                                                                                                                                                                                                  up any babies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2316 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: guppy fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                  you know, you can put a ball of java moss in a breeder net and the fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                  are really happy. i've done it myself and it works really well :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                  On May 31, 2004, at 12:35 AM, bucks_boogie@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                  > MrsD, this has most likely been addressed, but, anyway, put them in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tank, they will NOT survive in a net breeder.  The stress from light
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > a lack of hiding places will kill them.   It's as simple as stress. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > No
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > hiding places, death in a day or two.  As long as you use ammo chips
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > in
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > an uncycled tank, the ammonia will be removed and they will live long
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > enough for transfer.  You can use this opportunity to cycle another
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > filter on your main tank for just this situation.  Keep an Aqua Clear
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > mini or a Penguin mini running and when you have to switch it,cut a
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > hole
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > in a Aqua Clear mini sponge and put it over the intake so you don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > suck
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > up any babies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                  > "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"
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                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2317 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                                  The new heater you NEED TO BUY is by Hydor. Make sure it doesn't have
                                                                                                                                                                                                  metal coils, like PetsMart sells. They are expensive, but, they never
                                                                                                                                                                                                  get beyond 130*, so the glass can't break from heat, or burn you. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                  use shatterproof glass and gets the temp where you want it. Better
                                                                                                                                                                                                  yet, if you have a canister, they make one for the tubing and the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                  going back into the tank is just right, creating even temps. I use one
                                                                                                                                                                                                  in our 46 gallon and it's fantastic. It's kind of like a reptile pad
                                                                                                                                                                                                  heater contained in shatterproof glass.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2318 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                                  thanks in my new 55 gallon ill do that... unfortanitaly i bought the petsmart coil thingy.. but oh well i will jsut have to be careful i will get this kind in my new tank... and today i also got a panda catfish.. has anyone seen them.. omg.. they are so adorable.. he isnt any bigger than the top of a pencil eraser... shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                  The new heater you NEED TO BUY  is by Hydor.  Make sure it doesn't have
                                                                                                                                                                                                  metal coils, like PetsMart sells.  They are expensive, but, they never
                                                                                                                                                                                                  get beyond 130*, so the glass can't break from heat, or burn you.  They
                                                                                                                                                                                                  use shatterproof glass and gets the temp where you want it.   Better
                                                                                                                                                                                                  yet, if you have a canister, they make one for the tubing and the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                  going back into the tank is just right, creating even temps.  I use one
                                                                                                                                                                                                  in our 46 gallon and it's fantastic.  It's kind of like a reptile pad
                                                                                                                                                                                                  heater contained in shatterproof glass.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2319 From: anuar Date: 5/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hellooooo !!!! I am from Malaysia.. anything particular you want to seek ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    message me yeah 
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: 05/31/04 12:42:33
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hey, anyone from Malaysia, take your darn snails back!!!!!!!!  Ha, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                    are taking over at my store, they're almost as bad as the macaw that
                                                                                                                                                                                                    beckones all day.... :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                    "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"


                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                      IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2320 From: red-eye Date: 5/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just jumping in - I have used ebojager's for many years. Its my heater of choice :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                                    because it stands up to the abuse of adult turtles






                                                                                                                                                                                                    At 09:55 PM 5/30/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    The new heater you NEED TO BUY  is by Hydor.  Make sure it doesn't have
                                                                                                                                                                                                    metal coils, like PetsMart sells.  They are expensive, but, they never
                                                                                                                                                                                                    get beyond 130*, so the glass can't break from heat, or burn you.  They
                                                                                                                                                                                                    use shatterproof glass and gets the temp where you want it.   Better
                                                                                                                                                                                                    yet, if you have a canister, they make one for the tubing and the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                    going back into the tank is just right, creating even temps.  I use one
                                                                                                                                                                                                    in our 46 gallon and it's fantastic.  It's kind of like a reptile pad
                                                                                                                                                                                                    heater contained in shatterproof glass.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                    red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                                                    <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                                                                                    <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                                                                    The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                                                                    <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                                                                    For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2321 From: gorhka Date: 5/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Just purchased a 100gal tank that leaks....
                                                                                                                                                                                                    It is a Ocean View 100 gallon (60x19x20).

                                                                                                                                                                                                    When filled, water collects on the above/outside of the front trim. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    left it filled overnight, and no water left this area. I think I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stop this by just adding some aquarium safe silicone to the front
                                                                                                                                                                                                    seal. If this stops the leak, would you put this tank in your house,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    or does this indicate a tank that is going to fail sometime in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    near future?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just purchased this tank used, how good of a tank is it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2322 From: emijer Date: 5/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi I have new fish, I posted a couple of days ago. 1 crayfish, 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                    crab, 1 shark and 3 others. well this afternoon my bumble bee fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                    was missing. I looked in the filter and it appears that it was
                                                                                                                                                                                                    eaten as there was remants in the filter. what would have caused
                                                                                                                                                                                                    this? They all appeared healthy. They are all considered aggrssive
                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish, Do I need to feed thm more? I was feeding them 1 pinch 2 x
                                                                                                                                                                                                    day. the other fish are all about 1 inch long and the cray and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    shark about 2 inches. my guess would be that the cray got him. any
                                                                                                                                                                                                    suggestions? Heidi
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2323 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 5/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 5/31/2004 7:55:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, emijer@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    They are all considered aggrssive
                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish,


                                                                                                                                                                                                    Therein lies the reason I don't keep ANY aggressive species in my tank. My only guess (and I am NOT an expert ... I've only been doing this a few months, but I'm a voracious reader) is that because you have several aggressive fish, they've been staking out their territories in the tank, and your poor bumblebee got too close to someone else's turf.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Unless you've been rearranging your tank decorations recently, and it might have gotten caught under something when you put it back??

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Anyone else have any input on this one? *shrugs*

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2324 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 5/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have had crayfish eat fish before and I tend to ov
                                                                                                                                                                                                    erfeed... just add a more agro fish and he^ll stop m
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ine did after he had his ass whiped a few times...
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <html><body>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi I have new fish, I posted a couple of days ago.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      1 crayfish, 1 <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > crab, 1 shark and 3 others.  well this aftern
                                                                                                                                                                                                    oon my bumble bee fish <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > was missing.  I looked in the filter and it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ppears that it was <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > eaten as there was remants in the filter.  wh
                                                                                                                                                                                                    at would have caused <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > this?  They all appeared healthy.  They
                                                                                                                                                                                                    are all considered aggrssive <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish, Do I need to feed thm more?  I was feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                    ing them 1 pinch 2 x <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > day.  the other fish are all about 1 inch lon
                                                                                                                                                                                                    g and the cray and <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > shark about 2 inches.  my guess would be that
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the cray got him.  any <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > suggestions?   Heidi  <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > </tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Justin MacIver
                                                                                                                                                                                                    "No Guts, No Glory"
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2325 From: amalthea23 Date: 5/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                    there is the possibility that the fish died naturally and was THEN torn
                                                                                                                                                                                                    up by the others. this can happen with aggressive and non aggressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish alike...
                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                    On May 31, 2004, at 11:30 PM, Witchywmn42@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    > In a message dated 5/31/2004 7:55:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > emijer@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > They are all considered aggrssive
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Therein lies the reason I don't keep ANY aggressive species in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank. My only guess (and I am NOT an expert ... I've only been doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > this a few months, but I'm a voracious reader) is that because you
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have several aggressive fish, they've been staking out their
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > territories in the tank, and your poor bumblebee got too close to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > someone else's turf.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Unless you've been rearranging your tank decorations recently, and it
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > might have gotten caught under something when you put it back??
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Anyone else have any input on this one? *shrugs*
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2326 From: iloveguppies Date: 5/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a 10 gallon freshwater tank, it's cycling at the moment so
                                                                                                                                                                                                    it has 2 leopard danios in it. A little boy caught me 2 crawdads for
                                                                                                                                                                                                    my tank, but others have said my tank is to small and he will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                    the fish I plan on adding later. I am gonna make them there own tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    set up, but need to know weather I should use gravel or sand? Also
                                                                                                                                                                                                    do they need a place to come up out of the water. Thanks in advance
                                                                                                                                                                                                    MELANIE (PS. DO YOU GUYS AGREE THAT THEY WOULD EAT MY FISH IF I PUT
                                                                                                                                                                                                    THEM IN THE TANK.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2327 From: daniel_roachus Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "iloveguppies"
                                                                                                                                                                                                    <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have a 10 gallon freshwater tank, it's cycling at the moment so
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it has 2 leopard danios in it. A little boy caught me 2 crawdads
                                                                                                                                                                                                    for
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > my tank, but others have said my tank is to small and he will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the fish I plan on adding later. I am gonna make them there own
                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > set up, but need to know weather I should use gravel or sand? Also
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > do they need a place to come up out of the water. Thanks in advance
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > MELANIE (PS. DO YOU GUYS AGREE THAT THEY WOULD EAT MY FISH IF I PUT
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > THEM IN THE TANK.


                                                                                                                                                                                                    well - I've just looked at

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.somaradio.ca/~minimalism/crawdad.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                    and one paragraph says:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Also of note is the crawdads claws. Used for crushing snails and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    small fish (which are the spoondogs main diet),"

                                                                                                                                                                                                    so I guess they would


                                                                                                                                                                                                    And then goes on to say:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    " they are capable of shearing a persons finger clean off. "

                                                                                                                                                                                                    YOWEEEEEEEEEEE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2328 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Digest Number 232
                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/1/04 11:04:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                                    (PS. DO YOU GUYS AGREE THAT THEY WOULD EAT MY FISH IF I PUT
                                                                                                                                                                                                    THEM IN THE TANK.




                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have found that if Crawdads/Crayfish will not only eat any fish that get too close, if in a small area, they will also eat each other.  I once started out with six I caught - ended up with one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2329 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: How long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do bettas live? We have a four year old male who keeps making
                                                                                                                                                                                                    bubbles in the corner of our tank...should we get him a female? My
                                                                                                                                                                                                    youngest daughter has been wanting to try breeding bettas. In
                                                                                                                                                                                                    understand it is rather challenging, but I thought it might be worth
                                                                                                                                                                                                    a try, anyway?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2330 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                    it depends on the hiding spaces. it also depends on the crayfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                    themselves. there are mellow crayfish and aggressive ones. i had a 6"
                                                                                                                                                                                                    one for a very long time that was very shy and never attacked anything
                                                                                                                                                                                                    but sick fish...
                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 1, 2004, at 7:46 AM, daniel_roachus wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "iloveguppies"
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >   I have a 10 gallon freshwater tank, it's cycling at the moment so
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > it has 2 leopard danios in it. A little boy caught me 2 crawdads
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > for
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > my tank, but others have said my tank is to small and he will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the fish I plan on adding later. I am gonna make them there own
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > set up, but need to know weather I should use gravel or sand? Also
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > do they need a place to come up out of the water. Thanks in advance
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > MELANIE (PS. DO YOU GUYS AGREE THAT THEY WOULD EAT MY FISH IF I PUT
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > THEM IN THE TANK.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > well - I've just looked at
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.somaradio.ca/~minimalism/crawdad.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and one paragraph says:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > "Also of note is the crawdads claws. Used for crushing snails and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > small fish (which are the spoondogs main diet),"
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > so I guess they would
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > And then goes on to say:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > " they are capable of shearing a persons finger clean off. "
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > YOWEEEEEEEEEEE!
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2331 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: How long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Others here are more qualified to advise as to whether or not you should breed your Betta, but I'm curious about your maintainance regime? The few males I've had died within a year, I guess. Your aquarium size, other tank-mates, feeding-schedule, types of food, how often, kinds of filters, currents, placement of filters, planted or not, decorations, gravel, water-change schedule and amount? If I missed anything or am being too presumptuous, please advise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage



                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Do bettas live? We have a four year old male who keeps making
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > bubbles in the corner of our tank...should we get him a female? My
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > youngest daughter has been wanting to try breeding bettas. In
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > understand it is rather challenging, but I thought it might be worth
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a try, anyway?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2332 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: How long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    i've bred bettas before, it's not TOO hard, but you really have to stay
                                                                                                                                                                                                    on top of things to make sure that neither the male nor the female gets
                                                                                                                                                                                                    injured in the process. nothing terrible will happen to a male who's
                                                                                                                                                                                                    making a bubble nest who DOESN'T get to breed, but even the most smooth
                                                                                                                                                                                                    of breeding transactions usually ends up with one of the fish getting a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    chunk torn out of a fin.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 1, 2004, at 12:35 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >   Others here are more qualified to advise as to whether or not you
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > should breed your Betta, but I'm curious about your maintainance
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > regime? The few males I've had died within a year, I guess. Your
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium size, other tank-mates, feeding-schedule, types of food, how
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > often, kinds of filters, currents, placement of filters, planted or
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not, decorations, gravel, water-change schedule and amount?  If I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > missed anything or am being too presumptuous, please advise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Do bettas live?  We have a four year old male who keeps making
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > bubbles in the corner of our tank...should we get him a female?  My
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > youngest daughter has been wanting to try breeding bettas.  In
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > understand it is rather challenging, but I thought it might be worth
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > a try, anyway?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ADVERTISEMENT
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Service.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2333 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: How long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    No problem. I'm thinking it is probably dumb luck. We have a 29
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gallon starter tank for both of the kids. This betta is in a tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    with platys, guppies, glass cats, corys, SAE's, Cherry barbs, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    gold tetras. The tank has a driftwood peice for the fish to hide in
                                                                                                                                                                                                    and is planted with haigrass, mondo grass, java fern, ludwigia (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    red kind), a musa, some frill, and ribbon grass. We had a tank blow
                                                                                                                                                                                                    out recently, due to a horrible snail infestation, which killed my
                                                                                                                                                                                                    plants, then led to nitrate buildup and die off, but it seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                    back on an even keel now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    We use a laterite/vermiculite/peatmoss base under gravel, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank has a floursecent light tube in the hood, but gets additional
                                                                                                                                                                                                    light from a nearby low window facing soutwest. Temps usually are
                                                                                                                                                                                                    round about 82 degrees. We feed the bottom feeders an algae pellet
                                                                                                                                                                                                    whenever needed, use flake color enhancing food for the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish, and get betta bits for the betta. When we feed them in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    morning, we tap on the glass (shave and a haircut) and the fish all
                                                                                                                                                                                                    rise and assume their feeding positions. The betta always lurks in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    corner near the heater (immersion type) and we sprinkle a bit of food
                                                                                                                                                                                                    right over him. The other fish seem to enjoy playing with their
                                                                                                                                                                                                    food. He also gets an occasionl whitefly or fungus gnat that gets
                                                                                                                                                                                                    into the water from the houseplants that surround the tank, and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    think he eats some of the guppy and platy fry, too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    We have a tetra min filter that hangs off the side of the tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    has the white spongy filter with a plastic insert and carbon pellets
                                                                                                                                                                                                    inside that. Hmmm, decorations...a couple of old seashells, some
                                                                                                                                                                                                    pretty rocks my daughter collected, and we never changed the water,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    just added more when it would evaporate down (I know...bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                    idea...just found that out). The only current comes from the filter,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    flows from the left hand side of the tank to the front, then swirls
                                                                                                                                                                                                    around a bit, leaving some still points and some constant swirly
                                                                                                                                                                                                    places.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    This betta tends to lurk in the still places where the ribbon grass
                                                                                                                                                                                                    and heater make a sort of still cove. There is a driftwood cave
                                                                                                                                                                                                    under there, and he makes bubbles right in that corner. The only
                                                                                                                                                                                                    time he comes out is to play nose-push with the cory catfish, or to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    swim slow laps around the aquarium. Does that help? My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                    daughters betta, which ran afoul of one of our cats (furred not
                                                                                                                                                                                                    finned) was about two years old, but not as big, and not prone to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    making bubbles. Same treatment, but the fish were guppies, platies,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    glass cats, and zebra dainos instead of cherry barbs.


                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Others here are more qualified to advise as to whether or not you
                                                                                                                                                                                                    should breed your Betta, but I'm curious about your maintainance
                                                                                                                                                                                                    regime? The few males I've had died within a year, I guess. Your
                                                                                                                                                                                                    aquarium size, other tank-mates, feeding-schedule, types of food, how
                                                                                                                                                                                                    often, kinds of filters, currents, placement of filters, planted or
                                                                                                                                                                                                    not, decorations, gravel, water-change schedule and amount? If I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    missed anything or am being too presumptuous, please advise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2334 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: How long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    .........and Thanks. Great help. As far as tapping on the tank, and your parenthetical reference to 'shave and a haircut', I assume you expected admonishing advisories about fishes sensitivities, the likelihood of trauma. stress, loss of slimecoat and the host of consequences.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I read something lately about aquarium maintainance that could have included your fish-keeping practices. Something about keeping a tank too-clean, to the extent the water is un-natural, I guess. Can't remember the source, but maybe I'll have a remission. Seems the stuff you use for plant accomodation could resemble the Bettas' natural environment, if not in available oxygen, then in organic composition, since their natural waters contain lots of bio-mass.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Have your other fish been as long-lived, and did your planting regime exist for the duration of your current fishes lifetimes?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                                                    > No problem. I'm thinking it is probably dumb luck. We have a 29
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gallon starter tank for both of the kids. This betta is in a tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with platys, guppies, glass cats, corys, SAE's, Cherry barbs, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gold tetras. The tank has a driftwood peice for the fish to hide in
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and is planted with haigrass, mondo grass, java fern, ludwigia (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > red kind), a musa, some frill, and ribbon grass. We had a tank blow
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > out recently, due to a horrible snail infestation, which killed my
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants, then led to nitrate buildup and die off, but it seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > back on an even keel now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > We use a laterite/vermiculite/peatmoss base under gravel, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank has a floursecent light tube in the hood, but gets additional
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > light from a nearby low window facing soutwest. Temps usually are
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > round about 82 degrees. We feed the bottom feeders an algae pellet
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > whenever needed, use flake color enhancing food for the rest of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish, and get betta bits for the betta. When we feed them in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > morning, we tap on the glass (shave and a haircut) and the fish all
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > rise and assume their feeding positions. The betta always lurks in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > corner near the heater (immersion type) and we sprinkle a bit of food
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > right over him. The other fish seem to enjoy playing with their
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > food. He also gets an occasionl whitefly or fungus gnat that gets
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > into the water from the houseplants that surround the tank, and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > think he eats some of the guppy and platy fry, too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > We have a tetra min filter that hangs off the side of the tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > has the white spongy filter with a plastic insert and carbon pellets
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > inside that. Hmmm, decorations...a couple of old seashells, some
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pretty rocks my daughter collected, and we never changed the water,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > just added more when it would evaporate down (I know...bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > idea...just found that out). The only current comes from the filter,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > flows from the left hand side of the tank to the front, then swirls
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > around a bit, leaving some still points and some constant swirly
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > places.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > This betta tends to lurk in the still places where the ribbon grass
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and heater make a sort of still cove. There is a driftwood cave
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > under there, and he makes bubbles right in that corner. The only
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > time he comes out is to play nose-push with the cory catfish, or to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > swim slow laps around the aquarium. Does that help? My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > daughters betta, which ran afoul of one of our cats (furred not
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > finned) was about two years old, but not as big, and not prone to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > making bubbles. Same treatment, but the fish were guppies, platies,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > glass cats, and zebra dainos instead of cherry barbs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Others here are more qualified to advise as to whether or not you
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > should breed your Betta, but I'm curious about your maintainance
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > regime? The few males I've had died within a year, I guess. Your
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium size, other tank-mates, feeding-schedule, types of food, how
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > often, kinds of filters, currents, placement of filters, planted or
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not, decorations, gravel, water-change schedule and amount? If I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > missed anything or am being too presumptuous, please advise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2335 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Dwarf Gouramis and mail order fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks, Steve. I am a newbie but I researched online before buying any fish. I am keeping my Dwarf Gouramis in what I guess is close to a "species" tank - I only have a ten gallon (plus just completed a fishless cycle on a 2.5 g to use for hospice, which resulted in some teasing by my husband about whether I was going to provide EMS service as well), and along with one male D.G. have 3 females, and an otocinclus only about 1" long which the Gourami's completely ignore (my male was "powder blue" I thought, but have noticed more red coloration in the stripes and fins since introducing the females). The oto's were in the same tank with the male d.g.'s at petsmart, so I figured they were used to each other and would get along fine. I don't notice any shyness with my male, only with the females; they hide in the back behind the plants, and if they are out to feed they scatter when I approach. The male is curious and not at all shy, in fact I almost got him to eat from my hand when I gave him a treat of bloodworm gel; and the agressive behavior is primarily with the thermometer, which is glass floating type attached with suction cup. (He knocked it loose once, so I am glad it floated!) He also is a "skirt chaser" - also he chases the two smaller females away from the food until he and his favorite female have had their fill, so I feed in two small pinches spaced a few minutes apart now. I have planted half of the tank, six aponogetons from WalMart bulbs (every one came up, and most were blooming before my tank was cycled) and this weekend added some Cabomba. I also added some Malaysian driftwood. Finally starting to get a little algae on my plants and glass, so have stopped algae wafers which I was feeding them at night. Want to add a couple more plants they are said to like. I have observed what I interpreted as breeding behavior with the male and the more mature female - male curled around the female after a brief "dance" together. But no bubble nest. Assumed they were unhappy with plant choice at the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I resorted to fish2U in Florida for my female DG's - I am in southeast Georgia so this was close enough for one day of travel in a truck - one LFS caters to reef aquaria, one to ponds, and the other is petSmart (with dead critters floating in the tanks) so I only buy limited stuff there. My equipment is a mix of WalMart, petSmart, and Drs Foster & Smith.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> Message: 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 07:48:24 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > From: "Steve Szabo" <stevesz@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: Dwarf Gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Last week there was some discussion on the dwarf gouramis on this list. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have kept them extensively in the great distant past, and I would suspect
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that nothing has really changed other than the number of color varieties
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that have come to dominate the scene to the point that one can not find the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > naturally colored dwarf gourami as well as a couple of the scientific names
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of the group we can refer to as dwarf gouramis.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Gouramis as a whole are not nice fish. They show aggression to conspecifics
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > as well as others. Dwarf gouramis are no different. However, dwarf gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are often listed in the literature as being timid fish, and that often
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > follows through to the advice you receive from others. My experience has
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > mostly been the opposite. Dwarf gouramis will often dominate the tank they
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are in, if kept in a community setting. You just need to provide the proper
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > conditions.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I've always kept the dwarfs in a well planted tank, either a species tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in which a hierarchy will soon develop, or in a community type setting. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > would suspect that any tank that provided the fish with the opportunity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > retreat to cover when they feel threatened would induce the behavior common
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to gouramis as a whole. Once the tank has been set up and the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > introduced, you may not see the fish much for several days as they become
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > used to their new surroundings and establish territories within the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Once this has been accomplished, the fish will often be out in the open,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > doing the things that are done naturally--bullying, bluffing, courting,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > protecting their turf, begging for food, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If one is intent on breeding the fish, a slow aeration and/or filter flow is
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > recommended. The male, when ready, will build the bubblenest and incorporate
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > bits and pieces of the plants in it to help hold it together. He will then
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > court the females until one acquiesces to his advances. They will go through
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the courtship, and eggs will be placed in the nest. At this point I would
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > often remove the rest of the fish from the tank, or place a barrier between
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the male and the nest to avoid raids on the nest from the other inhabitants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Post hatching would engender the capture of the fry and placement in a tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with shallow water and a very tight lid to provide the requisite humidity
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > above the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > For those of you interested in the dwarfs, keep an eye out for the naturally
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > colored _Colisa lalia_. I think that when properly maintained, you'll agree
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with me that they are the most beautiful of any of the varieties that have
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > been developed from them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2336 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: How long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've always planted a tank before introducing any fish at all. Then
                                                                                                                                                                                                    I let it sit for a week or so before adding fish. I don't have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    bubbler for the tank, the plants seem to provide enough oxygen.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Except for the mass die off, and the neon tetras we attempted to
                                                                                                                                                                                                    purchase which all died within days (by the by, the individual who
                                                                                                                                                                                                    responded to me...thanks for the tips on introducing neons), our fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                    seem to be long-lived. We stocked the tanks four years ago for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    current tank, and three years ago for the other one, and have not had
                                                                                                                                                                                                    to add any fish until the three year old tank had that horrible die
                                                                                                                                                                                                    off.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I did expect scolding for not cleaning the tank and tapping on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    glass...but the fish don't seem to be stressed by it, and get eager.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    We only tap for feeding, though, and lightly. The water, though we
                                                                                                                                                                                                    didn't clean it, was never murky, just not crystal pool clean. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                    was plenty clean enough to enjoy the fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > .........and Thanks. Great help. As far as tapping on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank, and your parenthetical reference to 'shave and a haircut', I
                                                                                                                                                                                                    assume you expected admonishing advisories about fishes
                                                                                                                                                                                                    sensitivities, the likelihood of trauma. stress, loss of slimecoat
                                                                                                                                                                                                    and the host of consequences.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I read something lately about aquarium maintainance that could
                                                                                                                                                                                                    have included your fish-keeping practices. Something about keeping a
                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank too-clean, to the extent the water is un-natural, I guess. Can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                    remember the source, but maybe I'll have a remission. Seems the
                                                                                                                                                                                                    stuff you use for plant accomodation could resemble the Bettas'
                                                                                                                                                                                                    natural environment, if not in available oxygen, then in organic
                                                                                                                                                                                                    composition, since their natural waters contain lots of bio-mass.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Have your other fish been as long-lived, and did your planting
                                                                                                                                                                                                    regime exist for the duration of your current fishes lifetimes?
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2337 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: CRAWDADS After reading that website you would have to wonder why people bother :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Seems to be the freshwater stream equivalent of an armadillo :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Tim

                                                                                                                                                                                                    On 1/6/04 9:46 PM, "daniel_roachus" <daniel_roach@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "iloveguppies"
                                                                                                                                                                                                    <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                    >   I have a 10 gallon freshwater tank, it's cycling at the moment so
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it has 2 leopard danios in it. A little boy caught me 2 crawdads
                                                                                                                                                                                                    for
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > my tank, but others have said my tank is to small and he will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the fish I plan on adding later. I am gonna make them there own
                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > set up, but need to know weather I should use gravel or sand? Also
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > do they need a place to come up out of the water. Thanks in advance
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > MELANIE (PS. DO YOU GUYS AGREE THAT THEY WOULD EAT MY FISH IF I PUT
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > THEM IN THE TANK.


                                                                                                                                                                                                    well - I've just looked at

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.somaradio.ca/~minimalism/crawdad.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                    and one paragraph says:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Also of note is the crawdads claws. Used for crushing snails and
                                                                                                                                                                                                    small fish (which are the spoondogs main diet),"

                                                                                                                                                                                                    so I guess they would


                                                                                                                                                                                                    And then goes on to say:
                                                                                                                                                                                                    " they are capable of shearing a persons finger clean off. "

                                                                                                                                                                                                    YOWEEEEEEEEEEE!



                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2338 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was more inclined to think something like :.................freshwater equivalent of a jackalope". A 6 foot, 80 pound Crawdad seems a little farfetched, 'tho I'd like to keep an open mind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2339 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Actually I thought the whole website was a little farfetched :-) In Australia we have freshwater yabbies, I don’t know how similar they are to these guys but they are a freshwater crayfish that tend to live in dams.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      You catch them by tying a piece of meat to the end of a 3 metre piece of string. Tie the other end of the string to a stick and stick it in the bank. Run about 6 out and then sit there and watch. When you see the string go tight you know a yabbie has grabbed the other end of the string. You slowly pull the string in until you can see the yabbie in about a foot of water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then, before the yabbie sees you or the open air, yank the string and throw him up onto the bank. Then catch him from behind (so he doesn’t grab a finger) before he can crawl back into the dam.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Once you’ve got a yabbie or 10 they are great on a BBQ or in a fishtank :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Tim


                                                                                                                                                                                                      On 2/6/04 9:16 AM, "j.pascavage@..." <j.pascavage@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was more inclined to think something like :.................freshwater equivalent of a jackalope".  A 6 foot, 80 pound Crawdad seems a little farfetched, 'tho I'd like to keep an open mind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Joe Pascavage



                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2340 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                        My only recollection of crawdads was before the age of nine, in the early 1950's, in the coal-region of eastern Pennsylvania. The most we did was notice them, pick them up with our fingers, and notice that in spite of their small size, had a quite noticeable pinch. The thought of eating them never entered our minds. The brook where we played had little spillways, and the only dams there were probably yhe ones we made. They somehow had accomodations under rocks, and maybe, if my memory is'nt deceiving me, places under the bank, like some of Steve Irwins' crocodiles.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2341 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: CRAWDADS Lol, by dam I mean an Aussie farming term for a big hole dug out in the ground in a place likely to collect water in the middle of farmland for the purpose of supplying water to livestock. Usually a muddy hole of water anywhere from 3 to 100 metres across.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yabbie tends to live in mud holes dug in the bottom of the mud..

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Here a google images for Australian yabbie

                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://images.google.com/images?q=Australian%20yabbie&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi


                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tim



                                                                                                                                                                                                        On 2/6/04 10:28 AM, "j.pascavage@..." <j.pascavage@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                          My only recollection of crawdads was before the age of nine, in the early 1950's, in the coal-region of eastern Pennsylvania. The most we did was notice them, pick them up with our fingers, and notice that in spite of their small size, had a quite noticeable pinch. The thought of eating them never entered our minds.  The brook where we played had little spillways, and the only dams there were probably yhe ones we made. They somehow had accomodations under rocks, and maybe, if my memory is'nt deceiving me, places under the bank, like some of Steve Irwins' crocodiles.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Joe Pascavage




                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2342 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Dwarf Gouramis and mail order fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Just a quick note about the otos you have. They do need algae to survive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        While you can easily provide other vegetable matter, they really seem to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        need some algae in their diets for a long life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Since the males and females are from different sources, and quite possibly
                                                                                                                                                                                                        introduced at different times, give the females a bit, and they too will
                                                                                                                                                                                                        come out for you and your viewing pleasure.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        When the male is ready to breed, he will build the bubblenest and then try
                                                                                                                                                                                                        to entice a female over to it. This will even happen in a bare tank. When
                                                                                                                                                                                                        you see the bubblenest, you know the male is ready.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: Audrey Archer [mailto:arch1574@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 3:40 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Dwarf Gouramis and mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                        order fish


                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks, Steve. I am a newbie but I researched online before buying any fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am keeping my Dwarf Gouramis in what I guess is close to a "species"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank - I only have a ten gallon (plus just completed a fishless cycle on a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        2.5 g to use for hospice, which resulted in some teasing by my husband about
                                                                                                                                                                                                        whether I was going to provide EMS service as well), and along with one male
                                                                                                                                                                                                        D.G. have 3 females, and an otocinclus only about 1" long which the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Gourami's completely ignore (my male was "powder blue" I thought, but have
                                                                                                                                                                                                        noticed more red coloration in the stripes and fins since introducing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        females). The oto's were in the same tank with the male d.g.'s at petsmart,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        so I figured they were used to each other and would get along fine. I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                        notice any shyness with my male, only with the females; they hide in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        back behind the plants, and if they are out to feed they scatter when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        approach. The male is curious and not at all shy, in fact I almost got him
                                                                                                                                                                                                        to eat from my hand when !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I gave him a treat of bloodworm gel; and the agressive behavior is primarily
                                                                                                                                                                                                        with the thermometer, which is glass floating type attached with suction
                                                                                                                                                                                                        cup. (He knocked it loose once, so I am glad it floated!) He also is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        "skirt chaser" - also he chases the two smaller females away from the food
                                                                                                                                                                                                        until he and his favorite female have had their fill, so I feed in two small
                                                                                                                                                                                                        pinches spaced a few minutes apart now. I have planted half of the tank, six
                                                                                                                                                                                                        aponogetons from WalMart bulbs (every one came up, and most were blooming
                                                                                                                                                                                                        before my tank was cycled) and this weekend added some Cabomba. I also added
                                                                                                                                                                                                        some Malaysian driftwood. Finally starting to get a little algae on my
                                                                                                                                                                                                        plants and glass, so have stopped algae wafers which I was feeding them at
                                                                                                                                                                                                        night. Want to add a couple more plants they are said to like. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                        observed what I interpreted as breeding behavior with the male and the more
                                                                                                                                                                                                        mature female - male curled around the female after a brief "dance"
                                                                                                                                                                                                        together. But no bubble nest. !
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Assumed they were unhappy with plant choice at the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I resorted to fish2U in Florida for my female DG's - I am in southeast
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Georgia so this was close enough for one day of travel in a truck - one LFS
                                                                                                                                                                                                        caters to reef aquaria, one to ponds, and the other is petSmart (with dead
                                                                                                                                                                                                        critters floating in the tanks) so I only buy limited stuff there. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                        equipment is a mix of WalMart, petSmart, and Drs Foster & Smith.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Message: 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 07:48:24 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: "Steve Szabo" <stevesz@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: Dwarf Gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Last week there was some discussion on the dwarf gouramis on this list. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > have kept them extensively in the great distant past, and I would suspect
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that nothing has really changed other than the number of color varieties
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that have come to dominate the scene to the point that one can not find
                                                                                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > naturally colored dwarf gourami as well as a couple of the scientific
                                                                                                                                                                                                        names
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > of the group we can refer to as dwarf gouramis.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Gouramis as a whole are not nice fish. They show aggression to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        conspecifics
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > as well as others. Dwarf gouramis are no different. However, dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                        gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > are often listed in the literature as being timid fish, and that often
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > follows through to the advice you receive from others. My experience has
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > mostly been the opposite. Dwarf gouramis will often dominate the tank they
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > are in, if kept in a community setting. You just need to provide the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        proper
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > conditions.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I've always kept the dwarfs in a well planted tank, either a species tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in which a hierarchy will soon develop, or in a community type setting. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > would suspect that any tank that provided the fish with the opportunity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > retreat to cover when they feel threatened would induce the behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                                        common
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > to gouramis as a whole. Once the tank has been set up and the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > introduced, you may not see the fish much for several days as they become
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > used to their new surroundings and establish territories within the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Once this has been accomplished, the fish will often be out in the open,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > doing the things that are done naturally--bullying, bluffing, courting,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > protecting their turf, begging for food, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > If one is intent on breeding the fish, a slow aeration and/or filter flow
                                                                                                                                                                                                        is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > recommended. The male, when ready, will build the bubblenest and
                                                                                                                                                                                                        incorporate
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bits and pieces of the plants in it to help hold it together. He will then
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > court the females until one acquiesces to his advances. They will go
                                                                                                                                                                                                        through
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the courtship, and eggs will be placed in the nest. At this point I would
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > often remove the rest of the fish from the tank, or place a barrier
                                                                                                                                                                                                        between
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the male and the nest to avoid raids on the nest from the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                        inhabitants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Post hatching would engender the capture of the fry and placement in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with shallow water and a very tight lid to provide the requisite humidity
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > above the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > For those of you interested in the dwarfs, keep an eye out for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        naturally
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > colored _Colisa lalia_. I think that when properly maintained, you'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                        agree
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with me that they are the most beautiful of any of the varieties that have
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > been developed from them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                        >





                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2343 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: DECO ROCKS PICTURES
                                                                                                                                                                                                        THE PICTURES ARE IN A FOLDER CALLED MELANIE'S PICS
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2344 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: DECO ROCKS
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hello everyone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        today while at a dollor store I bought some pretty rocks ( the
                                                                                                                                                                                                        ones that are rounded on top and flat on the botton, they brand is
                                                                                                                                                                                                        accent gems, I was gonna use them to anchor my plants but after I
                                                                                                                                                                                                        bought them, I wasn't sure if I should use them in a fish tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                        walmart sells some in the fish area but they are ugly. Do you think
                                                                                                                                                                                                        these would be ok for my fish tank? I'm gonna add a picture of them
                                                                                                                                                                                                        if you would like to see what I'm talking about. thanks MELANIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2345 From: Jolena Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: DECO ROCKS
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hello everyone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                             today while at a dollor store I bought some pretty rocks ( the
                                                                                                                                                                                                          ones that are rounded on top and flat on the botton, they brand is
                                                                                                                                                                                                          accent gems, I was gonna use them to anchor my plants but after I
                                                                                                                                                                                                          bought them, I wasn't sure if I should use them in a fish tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          walmart sells some in the fish area but they are ugly. Do you think
                                                                                                                                                                                                          these would be ok for my fish tank? I'm gonna add a picture of them
                                                                                                                                                                                                          if you would like to see what I'm talking about. thanks MELANIE



                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2346 From: red-eye Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                          aka crayfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have a colony in both by pond and an 80 gallon turtle tank. I hate to dmit it but...I have learned quite a bit by observation. Did yiou know they will cull there own based on hiding spots? Did you know they are good diggers? The one thing I have not figured out is why the do a mass exit from the pond & then most but not all return. I suspect it has to do with the moon. I never thought of researching them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          red-eye




                                                                                                                                                                                                          At 05:28 PM 6/1/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                             My only recollection of crawdads was before the age of nine, in the early 1950's, in the coal-region of eastern Pennsylvania. The most we did was notice them, pick them up with our fingers, and notice that in spite of their small size, had a quite noticeable pinch. The thought of eating them never entered our minds.  The brook where we played had little spillways, and the only dams there were probably yhe ones we made. They somehow had accomodations under rocks, and maybe, if my memory is'nt deceiving me, places under the bank, like some of Steve Irwins' crocodiles.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Joe Pascavage






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                                                                                                                                                                                                          From:    Tim Walker <twalker@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                          To:    "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com" <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject:    Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Date:    Tue, 1 Jun 2004 23:41:54 +0000
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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Actually I thought the whole website was a little farfetched :-) In Australia we have freshwater yabbies, I don�t know how similar they are to these guys but they are a freshwater crayfish that tend to live in dams.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          You catch them by tying a piece of meat to the end of a 3 metre piece of string. Tie the other end of the string to a stick and stick it in the bank. Run about 6 out and then sit there and watch. When you see the string go tight you know a yabbie has grabbed the other end of the string. You slowly pull the string in until you can see the yabbie in about a foot of water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Then, before the yabbie sees you or the open air, yank the string and throw him up onto the bank. Then catch him from behind (so he doesn�t grab a finger) before he can crawl back into the dam.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Once you�ve got a yabbie or 10 they are great on a BBQ or in a fishtank :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Tim


                                                                                                                                                                                                          On 2/6/04 9:16 AM, "j.pascavage@..." <j.pascavage@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I was more inclined to think something like :.................freshwater equivalent of a jackalope".  A 6 foot, 80 pound Crawdad seems a little farfetched, 'tho I'd like to keep an open mind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Joe Pascavage




                                                                                                                                                                                                          Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                          red-eye

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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2347 From: red-eye Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: CRAWDADS
                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 phunny - try typing in crayfish ;->
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          red-eye




                                                                                                                                                                                                          At 05:35 PM 6/1/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Lol, by dam I mean an Aussie farming term for a big hole dug out in the ground in a place likely to collect water in the middle of farmland for the purpose of supplying water to livestock. Usually a muddy hole of water anywhere from 3 to 100 metres across.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yabbie tends to live in mud holes dug in the bottom of the mud..

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Here a google images for Australian yabbie

                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://images.google.com/images?q=Australian%20yabbie&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi


                                                                                                                                                                                                          Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Tim



                                                                                                                                                                                                          On 2/6/04 10:28 AM, "j.pascavage@..." <j.pascavage@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                            My only recollection of crawdads was before the age of nine, in the early 1950's, in the coal-region of eastern Pennsylvania. The most we did was notice them, pick them up with our fingers, and notice that in spite of their small size, had a quite noticeable pinch. The thought of eating them never entered our minds.  The brook where we played had little spillways, and the only dams there were probably yhe ones we made. They somehow had accomodations under rocks, and maybe, if my memory is'nt deceiving me, places under the bank, like some of Steve Irwins' crocodiles.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Joe Pascavage





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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2348 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: DECO ROCKS
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for the info, I'll do that. =:O)


                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Hi! Jolena, lurker and learner here. I use those in my tank. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                          just washed them really good with plain water and let them dry in
                                                                                                                                                                                                          the sunlight. No problems. Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2349 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: How long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                          It depends on how you got your betta. Some says 3 years tops, cause I am in a betta group. I had a successful breed and it is a hard work cleaning containers of the frys after they start to fight. If your aquarium has stones, the betta won't be able to get the eggs after the eggs fall from the female after the embrace cause sometimes the male gets shocked (like he gets still and stiff like he is dead). Also when the eggs are in the bubble nest, the male will protect it and anything that comes near it will be bitten by betta. You have to read on it before you do bread bettas. You can't keep a female and male together unless they are ready to mate and provide hiding places for the female. You will have either betta with bites and torn fins specially if they aren't compatible. I had 3 failed attempt on breeding until i had a successful one. 1st was there was stones and the male couldn't find most. Next was i took out the male to early. 3rd, the male bit the female so badly i had to take her out. 4th was the successful one. The frys live until a year with me and then mom gave them away. The only betta i have now is a twin short tail, female, and a plakat (short tail fighter).
                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                          I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                          IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                          I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: cynthia brennemann [mailto:brennewoman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 5:57 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] How long?

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Do bettas live?  We have a four year old male who keeps making
                                                                                                                                                                                                          bubbles in the corner of our tank...should we get him a female?  My
                                                                                                                                                                                                          youngest daughter has been wanting to try breeding bettas.  In
                                                                                                                                                                                                          understand it is rather challenging, but I thought it might be worth
                                                                                                                                                                                                          a try, anyway?


                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2350 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opinions welcome/ordering online
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've ordered fish online, once from a breeder and a few times from
                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.liveaquaria.com/ (part of Drs Foster & Smith). With those fish I
                                                                                                                                                                                                          did a long acclimation but never had any problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          The only drawback I've seen to ordering online is the cost of shipping.


                                                                                                                                                                                                          Theresa



                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                          > What are ya'lls experience with mail order places for fish and plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > online? I don't do ebay, but I've found some places that offer
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > different fish and such, and others for plants online. Petsmart
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > never fills me with confidence, there always being dead fish, frogs,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp and stuff floating around in their tanks, and only one person
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > who can answer my questions (only on duty on the day the fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > delivered and plopped right into tanks). And the only other place I
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > knew about here in Belleville closed a week after I discovered it
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (figures).
                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > At first I was thinking it would be too stressful to order online,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > but then I thought, if it is direct from a breeder, it would be less
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > stressful than being packed up, sent to petsmart, plopped in a tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with dead and dying fish, and then being constantly chased around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tank by the net for a week or so before I bought it and transported
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it home again.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > What are your thoughts? Any recommendations for sources?
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2351 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                                          If it's a cory, it's a schooler. I don't recall any other panda cat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2352 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: serious help needed
                                                                                                                                                                                                          This Hydor company makes a filter that has the heater built into it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Using it in the turtle tank and it seems to distribute the warmth
                                                                                                                                                                                                          evenly. Much like the heater hooked up to my canister at home.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2353 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bumblebee's are bottome dwellers, and the crayfish will hunt for
                                                                                                                                                                                                          anything that lives on the bottm. I personally won't keep crayfish in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                          communty.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2354 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                          i've kept them with kuhli loaches, slow plecos, etc. just gauge the
                                                                                                                                                                                                          personality, i don't think there's any way to say "all crayfish are..."
                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jun 2, 2004, at 9:19 AM, bucks_boogie@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Bumblebee's are bottome dwellers, and the crayfish will hunt for
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > anything that lives on the bottm.  I personally won't keep crayfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > communty.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > "I'm damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"
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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2355 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 233
                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 6/2/04 9:10:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                                          The one thing I have not figured out is why the do a mass exit
                                                                                                                                                                                                          from the pond & then most but not all return. I suspect it has to do with
                                                                                                                                                                                                          the moon. I never thought of researching them.


                                                                                                                                                                                                          One idea:  Crayfish/crawdads have an exoskeleton they must shed in order to grow.  Could be they get eaten when they are in the "soft shell" stage.  I know soft shell crabs here in DE (also with an exoskeleton) can take 24 hours or more for their shell to harden when they shed their old one.  In the soft shell stage, they are volunerable to anything big enough to get them in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2356 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 232
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have found that if Crawdads/Crayfish will not only eat any fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                          that get
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > too close, if in a small area, they will also eat each other. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                          once started
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > out with six I caught - ended up with one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          WOW you must of had a crazy one, we had them as kids and they would
                                                                                                                                                                                                          fight to where they would lose a claw but not a life. Although in
                                                                                                                                                                                                          our big 55 gallon tank we only had one by itself.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2357 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 233
                                                                                                                                                                                                          this is true. i was terribly worried for my 6" one when he shed,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          they're so vulnerable in that phase...
                                                                                                                                                                                                          you have to make sure they have a cave or other secure place to hide in
                                                                                                                                                                                                          during that time. and you should also leave the shell in for a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                          after they shed as they'll nibble on it to help build up the new shell.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jun 2, 2004, at 1:38 PM, DB1RDMAN@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                          > In a message dated 6/2/04 9:10:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The one thing I have not figured out is why the do a mass exit
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > from the pond & then most but not all return. I suspect it has to do
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the moon. I never thought of researching them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > One idea:  Crayfish/crawdads have an exoskeleton they must shed in
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > order to grow.  Could be they get eaten when they are in the "soft
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shell" stage.  I know soft shell crabs here in DE (also with an
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > exoskeleton) can take 24 hours or more for their shell to harden when
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > they shed their old one.  In the soft shell stage, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > volunerable to anything big enough to get them in its mouth.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2358 From: red-eye Date: 6/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Digest Number 232
                                                                                                                                                                                                          They will cull themselves based on hiding places - which they do not share
                                                                                                                                                                                                          red-eye


                                                                                                                                                                                                          At 09:48 AM 6/2/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have found that if Crawdads/Crayfish will not only eat any fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                          that get
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > too close, if in a small area, they will also eat each other.  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                          once started
                                                                                                                                                                                                          > out with six I caught - ended up with one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          WOW you must of had a crazy one, we had them as kids and they would
                                                                                                                                                                                                          fight to where they would lose a claw but not a life. Although in
                                                                                                                                                                                                          our big 55 gallon tank we only had one by itself.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                          red-eye

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                                                                                                                                                                                                          The "sulcata" list serve:
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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                                                                          The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                                                                          <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                                                                          For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                          ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                          The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                                                                                          ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2359 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 6/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 6/5/2004, 6:30 pm
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Saturday June 5, 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
                                                                                                                                                                                                          This event repeats on the first Saturday of every month.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Event Location: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave., San Jose CA, USA
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Street: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          City, State, Zip: San Jose, CA

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Notes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meetings are held the first Saturday of every month in San Jose. See http://www.svas.info for more information

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                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2360 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                          But why take the chance? I can't spend an entire day watching one tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                          to prevent someone from being eaten. Even one fish lost to predation
                                                                                                                                                                                                          would be too many. With all the cheap tanks available, why not give
                                                                                                                                                                                                          them their own?

                                                                                                                                                                                                          "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2361 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                            But why take the chance? I can't spend an entire day watching one tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                            to prevent someone from being eaten. Even one fish lost to predation
                                                                                                                                                                                                            would be too many. With all the cheap tanks available, why not give
                                                                                                                                                                                                            them their own?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2362 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                            With all the cheap tanks available, why not give
                                                                                                                                                                                                            > them their own?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Cheap tanks? Where are you finding cheap tanks? Every time we've
                                                                                                                                                                                                            tried to get a cheap tank it has leaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2363 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Cheap tanks?  Where are you finding cheap tanks? Every time we've
                                                                                                                                                                                                            tried to get a cheap tank it has leaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                                             boy you are right there on that one.. the last one I bought..{wish I had bought one three times as big}
                                                                                                                                                                                                            was nearly 75.00 & it was only a ten gallon one.. what with buyingthe heater.. which I didn't really need..
                                                                                                                                                                                                            & food & the plants.. not counting the cost of the fish ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                            was over a $100.00 ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                            & that was the cheapest one walmart had ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2364 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                            2.5 & 5 gallon Little Lagoons are just right for crayfish. They're $35
                                                                                                                                                                                                            & $45 at my store, although I know PetsMart and Petco have them a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                            higher. As far as used tanks, a tube of silicone is 5 bucks or less and
                                                                                                                                                                                                            elbow grease is free.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2365 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Now keep in mind folks, I'm only refering to housing crayfish. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                            wouldn't want them eating any of my fish, such as my neolamprolongus
                                                                                                                                                                                                            brevis, which retail at $10 a piece, and you must buy several to get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                            breeding population, for example. I'm just making a suggestion to
                                                                                                                                                                                                            housing the little pinchers, they don't need heaters, so the Little
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Lagoons just need some gravel and a cave.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2366 From: red-eye Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                              go plastic - from a guy who used to swear by glass



                                                                                                                                                                                                              At 07:48 AM 6/3/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cheap tanks?  Where are you finding cheap tanks? Every time we've
                                                                                                                                                                                                              tried to get a cheap tank it has leaked.


                                                                                                                                                                                                               boy you are right there on that one.. the last one I bought..{wish I had bought one three times as big}
                                                                                                                                                                                                              was nearly 75.00 & it was only a ten gallon one.. what with buyingthe heater.. which I didn't really need..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              & food & the plants.. not counting the cost of the fish ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              was over a $100.00 ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              & that was the cheapest one walmart had ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                               

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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2367 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              go plastic - from a guy who used to swear by glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                              no.. I don't think so..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't like plastic fish tanks..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              would rather pay for glass ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks tho..  Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2368 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              i'm going to agree on that, cleaning glass is just so much easier and
                                                                                                                                                                                                              less worrisome...
                                                                                                                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                              On Jun 3, 2004, at 12:39 PM, LL314158@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              > go plastic - from a guy who used to swear by glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > no.. I don't think so..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I don't like plastic fish tanks..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > would rather pay for glass ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > thanks tho..  Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2369 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Okay...let's hear it. Why go plastic? I've only seen a few plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                              tanks, and they were cloudy (the plastic) and not very enjoyable for
                                                                                                                                                                                                              viewing fish, but then they were kinda old and cheap. Have they
                                                                                                                                                                                                              managed to produce really good plastic tanks now? Got some websites
                                                                                                                                                                                                              for good plastic tanks? Sell me...

                                                                                                                                                                                                              > go plastic - from a guy who used to swear by glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2370 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Acrylic is plastic, said or proven to be clearer than glass, much lighter than glass, and stronger than glass. Some of the plastic tanks (small) I've seen, don't appear to be acrylic. I don't know the smallest acryllic size, but they can be VERY large.


                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Okay...let's hear it. Why go plastic? I've only seen a few plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tanks, and they were cloudy (the plastic) and not very enjoyable for
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > viewing fish, but then they were kinda old and cheap. Have they
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > managed to produce really good plastic tanks now? Got some websites
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > for good plastic tanks? Sell me...
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > go plastic - from a guy who used to swear by glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2371 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sounds good...where would you find acrylic tanks? The few I've found
                                                                                                                                                                                                              online were the size of a Bacta Tank (star wars reference there...)
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2372 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/3/2004 6:23:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              The few I've found
                                                                                                                                                                                                              online were the size of a Bacta Tank


                                                                                                                                                                                                              *grins* Those are some BIG tanks! My 15 gallon is glass, my daughters 2 gallon explorer is acrylic. Walmart and PetSmart carry the Explorer tanks. Not sure how big/small a tank you're looking for. I do find the glass is easier to clean, but only because I'm probably looking at the wrong stuff for cleaning the small acrylic one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin (who got the star wars reference)
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2373 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm not a star wars fan, but in GOOGLE, with the words acrylic aquariums, in the first two or three pages/ads, there was at least one 10 gallon. (and some going up to close to 1,000)
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sounds good...where would you find acrylic tanks? The few I've found
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > online were the size of a Bacta Tank (star wars reference there...)
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2374 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/3/2004 6:22:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sounds good...where would you find acrylic tanks? The few I've found
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > online were the size of a Bacta Tank (star wars reference
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > there...)


                                                                                                                                                                                                              Where do you live?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have gotten some locally off ebay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2375 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/3/2004 5:18:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Okay...let's hear it. Why go plastic? I've only seen a few plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tanks, and they were cloudy (the plastic) and not very enjoyable for
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > viewing fish, but then they were kinda old and cheap. Have they
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > managed to produce really good plastic tanks now? Got some
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > websites
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > for good plastic tanks? Sell me...


                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well they don't leak as often as glass tanks. They also do not shatter like I occasionally hear glass ones doing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, they can get scracthed, but you can usually sand down and polish the scratches. Also they are much easier to drill than glass tanks which can shatter or crack and require special drill bits to drill. Acrylic tanks are much easier to drill for over flows or trickle type filters. I have used my dremel recently to widen holes, cut larger filter openings or new airline holes in the top of my acrylic tanks. I just patched a used 55 gallon that had a drain hole in the bottom(overflow standpipe).
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Many of the acrylic manufacturers sell tanks with two curved corners on front, so you don't have a seal where two panes of glass butt up against each other. I do understand that Jebo makes a curved glass tank but they want a lot of money for their products.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.acrylicaquariums.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                              TruVu tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.aquatic-store.com/en-us/dept_97.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                              And the worlds most expensive acrylic tanks... http://www.tenecor.com/

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just my 2 cents.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2376 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Many of the acrylic manufacturers sell tanks with two curved corners on front, so you don't have a seal where two panes of glass butt up against each other.  I do understand that Jebo makes a curved glass tank but they want a lot of money for their products.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              My Jebo tank is flat across the back; the sides and front is one piece of glass with curved corners at the front left and right. There’s a very slight vertical bow through the front piece of glass as well. I’ve an 8 gallon, it came with an inbuilt trickle filter (decent enough to do the job on a heavily planted or medium loaded tank – I’m heavily planted and heavily loaded), also it came with 16 watts of light, which is 2 watts per gallon. Sufficient enough for my plants to grow...

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don’t get enough light for pearling though... Only when the sun shines on the tank (I’m injecting CO2). And one of these days I’m going to look into somehow getting more bulbs into the hood....

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2377 From: audralee Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just wanted to give my input as to where to get cheap tanks. Fish club auctions, local newspaper, flea markets and garage sales. I have also gotten some really good buys at some pet shops that will sell used tanks. I got 6 40 gal breeder tanks with glass covers for $120.00. Now, those are great tanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Does anybody have experience with cardinal tetras?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:12 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone

                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/3/2004 6:22:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sounds good...where would you find acrylic tanks?  The few I've found
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > online were the size of a Bacta Tank (star wars reference
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > there...)


                                                                                                                                                                                                              Where do you live?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have gotten some locally off ebay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2378 From: Zivko Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: help
                                                                                                                                                                                                              hi, i am having a problem. I have a 75 gallon tank with 6 orandas. one of the oranads is being chased and nibbled on by two of the smaller ones, the others aren't bothering it. i noticed this happening just today, they will chase him all over and nibble at his stomach and they won't stop. what could be happening? what should i do?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              i fed them just a few moments ago and they have stopped for now it seems so that they can eat but i fear that they will resume their harassment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Zivko
                                                                                                                                                                                                              "... I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2379 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              WHERE do you live, here in kansas walmart has 10 gallons with
                                                                                                                                                                                                              filters lids and some other things for 29.99 although I bought my 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon at a garage sale for $5 bucks. and it had a heater although i
                                                                                                                                                                                                              had to buy a filter. and luckly it doesn't leak. and i agree by the
                                                                                                                                                                                                              time you buy rocks, decorations, bottles of crap, testing supplies
                                                                                                                                                                                                              and none the less fish it's expensive. more than i had first
                                                                                                                                                                                                              thought.


                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Cheap tanks? Where are you finding cheap tanks? Every time we've
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tried to get a cheap tank it has leaked.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > boy you are right there on that one.. the last one I bought..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              {wish I had
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > bought one three times as big}
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > was nearly 75.00 & it was only a ten gallon one.. what with
                                                                                                                                                                                                              buyingthe
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > heater.. which I didn't really need..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > & food & the plants.. not counting the cost of the fish ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > was over a $100.00 ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > & that was the cheapest one walmart had ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2380 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              yeah i have decided to put my crawdads in a 10 gallon tank. they
                                                                                                                                                                                                              sell just the actual tank no lids or anything for $10.00 and from my
                                                                                                                                                                                                              snakes i have a screen and plastic lid to keep the cats out. (to
                                                                                                                                                                                                              save my fish)



                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Now keep in mind folks, I'm only refering to housing crayfish. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > wouldn't want them eating any of my fish, such as my
                                                                                                                                                                                                              neolamprolongus
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > brevis, which retail at $10 a piece, and you must buy several to
                                                                                                                                                                                                              get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > breeding population, for example. I'm just making a suggestion to
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > housing the little pinchers, they don't need heaters, so the Little
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Lagoons just need some gravel and a cave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2381 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              walmart has small one gallons with air bubbles for $9.99 someone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              gave it to my daughter with 2 goldfish for her birthday. I know they
                                                                                                                                                                                                              will need a larger tank soon. but for now it's working. plastic but
                                                                                                                                                                                                              nice and easy to keep clean.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Not sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > how big/small a tank you're looking for. I do find the glass is
                                                                                                                                                                                                              easier to
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > clean, but only because I'm probably looking at the wrong stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                              for cleaning the
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > small acrylic one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Erin (who got the star wars reference)
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2382 From: Jeff Schultz Date: 6/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi All,

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just my two cents but, I am in the last day of a two
                                                                                                                                                                                                              week trial of my tank holding water. My fiance
                                                                                                                                                                                                              wouldn't let me bring it in before that. I used 1/4"
                                                                                                                                                                                                              plexi on the bottom, back, and two sides, and 1/4"
                                                                                                                                                                                                              plate glass in front and I hope I am going to have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                              beautiful tank. Check out www.garf.com and
                                                                                                                                                                                                              www.krib.com. I think those are the right addresses
                                                                                                                                                                                                              but, I'm not 100% sure, they are in my favorites
                                                                                                                                                                                                              folder.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Good Luck All,
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Jeff Schultz


                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > In a message dated 6/3/2004 5:18:23 PM Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Okay...let's hear it. Why go plastic? I've only
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > seen a few plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > tanks, and they were cloudy (the plastic) and not
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > very enjoyable for
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > viewing fish, but then they were kinda old and
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > cheap. Have they
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > managed to produce really good plastic tanks now?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Got some
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > websites
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > for good plastic tanks? Sell me...
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well they don't leak as often as glass tanks. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > also do not shatter like I occasionally hear glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ones doing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yes, they can get scracthed, but you can usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > sand down and polish the scratches. Also they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > much easier to drill than glass tanks which can
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > shatter or crack and require special drill bits to
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > drill. Acrylic tanks are much easier to drill for
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > over flows or trickle type filters. I have used my
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > dremel recently to widen holes, cut larger filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > openings or new airline holes in the top of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > acrylic tanks. I just patched a used 55 gallon that
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > had a drain hole in the bottom(overflow standpipe).
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Many of the acrylic manufacturers sell tanks with
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > two curved corners on front, so you don't have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > seal where two panes of glass butt up against each
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > other. I do understand that Jebo makes a curved
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > glass tank but they want a lot of money for their
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.acrylicaquariums.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > TruVu tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.aquatic-store.com/en-us/dept_97.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > And the worlds most expensive acrylic tanks...
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.tenecor.com/
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Just my 2 cents.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2383 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: help

                                                                                                                                                                                                              The one being chased is the female and the ones chasing are the males. This is a very common behaviour during spawning or goldfish. Just to confirm, can you see any rashes or spots that look like ICH on the gill covers of the males? Keep a lookout if you happen to see any eggs stuck to plants or ornaments or if you happen to see the female release the eggs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Zivko [mailto:zivko@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 03 June 2004 22:03
                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] help

                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                              hi, i am having a problem. I have a 75 gallon tank with 6 orandas. one of the oranads is being chased and nibbled on by two of the smaller ones, the others aren't bothering it. i noticed this happening just today, they will chase him all over and nibble at his stomach and they won't stop. what could be happening? what should i do?

                                                                                                                                                                                                              i fed them just a few moments ago and they have stopped for now it seems so that they can eat but i fear that they will resume their harassment.


                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Zivko
                                                                                                                                                                                                              "... I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."



                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2384 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BABIES, CAN SOME ONE GIVE ME A
                                                                                                                                                                                                              My livebearer tank has 9 gold dust mollies, 6 platies, and 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                              guppies, all my females are ready to have babies, anytime now. Can
                                                                                                                                                                                                              some one give me advice on how to keep them alive!

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Danielle
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2385 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Any algae scrubber manufactuer also makes an acrylic safe scrubber, Penn
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Plax comes to mind.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2386 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: help
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Love is probably in the water. Not to say this isn't normal goldfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                              aggression, but the way you describe it, it sounds like an attempt to
                                                                                                                                                                                                              mate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2387 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BAB...
                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/4/2004 9:28:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, setokaibarules2002@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              all my females are ready to have babies, anytime now. Can
                                                                                                                                                                                                              some one give me advice on how to keep them alive!


                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've had ZERO luck in putting pregnant females in breeder boxes or tanks ... and zero luck in spotting when they are ready to have babies. Every time I *think* one is due to have babies, it turns out she just really had to go to the bathroom. *grins*

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think your best bet would be to just provide plenty of hiding places for the fry. Plenty of plants, and those glass stones you can find in craft section or in small bags in pet aisle or pet stores. (They allow the fry to hide between the stones, and bigger fish can't fit into the spaces.) Also, my mollie and platy fry when they were first born were small enough that they hid under the gravel! Just barely under the edge, near the glass of the aquarium. As long as they have plenty of places to hide, they should have no problem avoiding being eaten by the bigger fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              As far as feeding, sites about breeding livebearers say to crush up some flake food and feed them that a little bit at a time. My first group of fry, I spent two days netting all of the fry out of the main tank and transferring them into a "baby tank". When the fry were in the baby tank, I was able to feed them crushed flake food several times a day. Since that first group of about twenty fry, three groups of mollie fry were born without my noticing, of which only one from each group was witty enough to avoid being eaten. (by the first group of fry, no less! They were worse about eating the new arrivals than the adults were.)  I didn't bother netting those out, because there was only the one survivor each time. I just saw that they were quick about finding safe places to hide. :) At that point I was tremendously overstocked as well, which also had something to do with my not putting forth a tremendous effort to catch the new fry. Those three managed to sneak out at feeding time and eat the tiny bits of flake that had drifted close to where they were hiding, so even though I didn't prepare special food, they did fine and are now getting big.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Good luck!

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2388 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Good luck to you Jeff. Hope to see some pics when it's all set up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2389 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BABIES, CAN SOME ONE GIVE
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Lot's of floating plants, anacharis comes to mind and lots of bushy
                                                                                                                                                                                                              plants, live or fake or both, in the bottom. Without setting up a
                                                                                                                                                                                                              seperate tank for the moms, that's your only chance. By no means will
                                                                                                                                                                                                              they all suvive, but the strong should have a good chance then.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2390 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BAB...
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin's right, those breeder nets are lowsy. Don't even try it. It puts
                                                                                                                                                                                                              the babies right against the lights, even with plants in it, no relief.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              And the other fish poke all day trying to eat them till the stress kills
                                                                                                                                                                                                              'um all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              "I'm damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2391 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: spam: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              www.garf.org

                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <html><body>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi All,<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Just my two cents but, I am in the last day of a t
                                                                                                                                                                                                              wo<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > week trial of my tank holding water. My fiance<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > wouldn't let me bring it in before that. I used 1/
                                                                                                                                                                                                              4"<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > plexi on the bottom, back, and two sides, and 1/4&
                                                                                                                                                                                                              quot;<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > plate glass in front and I hope I am going to have
                                                                                                                                                                                                              a<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > beautiful tank. Check out www.garf.com and<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > www.krib.com. I think those are the right addresse
                                                                                                                                                                                                              s<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but, I'm not 100% sure, they are in my favorites<B
                                                                                                                                                                                                              R>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > folder.<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Good Luck All,<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Jeff Schultz<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Deenerz@... wrote:<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > In a message dated 6/3/2004 5:18:23 PM Easter
                                                                                                                                                                                                              n<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes
                                                                                                                                                                                                              :<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Okay...let's hear it.  Why go plast
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ic?  I've only<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > seen a few plastic <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > tanks, and they were cloudy (the plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ) and not<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > very enjoyable for <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > viewing fish, but then they were kinda o
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ld and<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > cheap.  Have they <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > managed to produce really good plastic t
                                                                                                                                                                                                              anks now? <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Got some <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > websites <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > for good plastic tanks?  Sell me...
                                                                                                                                                                                                              <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Well they don't leak as often as glass tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                They<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > also do not shatter like I occasionally hear
                                                                                                                                                                                                              glass<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ones doing.<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yes, they can get scracthed, but you can usua
                                                                                                                                                                                                              lly<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > sand down and polish the scratches.  Als
                                                                                                                                                                                                              o they are<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > much easier to drill than glass tanks which c
                                                                                                                                                                                                              an<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > shatter or crack and require special drill bi
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ts to<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > drill.  Acrylic tanks are much easier to
                                                                                                                                                                                                              drill for<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > over flows or trickle type filters.  I h
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ave used my<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > dremel recently to widen holes, cut larger fi
                                                                                                                                                                                                              lter<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > openings or new airline holes in the top of m
                                                                                                                                                                                                              y<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > acrylic tanks.  I just patched a used 55
                                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon that<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > had a drain hole in the bottom(overflow stand
                                                                                                                                                                                                              pipe). <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Many of the acrylic manufacturers sell tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                              with<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > two curved corners on front, so you don't hav
                                                                                                                                                                                                              e a<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > seal where two panes of glass butt up against
                                                                                                                                                                                                              each<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > other.  I do understand that Jebo makes
                                                                                                                                                                                                              a curved<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > glass tank but they want a lot of money for t
                                                                                                                                                                                                              heir<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > products.<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <a href="http://www.acrylicaquariums.com">htt
                                                                                                                                                                                                              p://www.acrylicaquariums.com</a><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > TruVu tanks<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <a href="http://www.aquatic-store.com/en-us/d
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ept_97.html">http://www.aquatic-store.com/en-us/dept
                                                                                                                                                                                                              _97.html</a>   <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > And the worlds most expensive acrylic tanks..
                                                                                                                                                                                                              . <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <a href="http://www.tenecor.com/">http://www.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              tenecor.com/</a><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Just my 2 cents.<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Mike<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >       <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >          &
                                                                                                                                                                                                              nbsp;  <BR>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                              nger.yahoo.com/</a> <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > </tt>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Justin MacIver
                                                                                                                                                                                                              "No Guts, No Glory"
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2392 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BABIES, CAN SOME ONE GIVE
                                                                                                                                                                                                              The first time our single female platy gave birth, we frantically
                                                                                                                                                                                                              scooped up the babies and separated them from the adults to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                                              alive. We missed a few, and they grew up just fine anyway. We just
                                                                                                                                                                                                              crumbled the food fine when we fed it to them. They hid in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                              plants and didn't seem to need anything special. Now we don't do
                                                                                                                                                                                                              anything at all, except comment on yet another bunch of babies. We
                                                                                                                                                                                                              keep having to give away guppies and platies because they just keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                              having them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              > My livebearer tank has 9 gold dust mollies, 6 platies, and 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > guppies, all my females are ready to have babies, anytime now. Can
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > some one give me advice on how to keep them alive!
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Danielle
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2393 From: red-eye Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              There is something about continuous rounded corners that IMHO provide a different way of viewing a tank.




                                                                                                                                                                                                              At 02:18 PM 6/3/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Okay...let's hear it.  Why go plastic?  I've only seen a few plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                              tanks, and they were cloudy (the plastic) and not very enjoyable for
                                                                                                                                                                                                              viewing fish, but then they were kinda old and cheap.  Have they
                                                                                                                                                                                                              managed to produce really good plastic tanks now?  Got some websites
                                                                                                                                                                                                              for good plastic tanks?  Sell me...

                                                                                                                                                                                                              > go plastic - from a guy who used to swear by glass




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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2394 From: emijer emijer Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a couple of questions first I am reading alot
                                                                                                                                                                                                              about spawning and frye. How can you tell males from
                                                                                                                                                                                                              females? Second I have a glass tube heater that I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                              not regulate it either gets 81 or 66 degrees. when it
                                                                                                                                                                                                              gets to the temp about 75 that I want I turn the dial
                                                                                                                                                                                                              until the glowing light goes out. This is what it
                                                                                                                                                                                                              says on the package but when I do that the tank gets
                                                                                                                                                                                                              cold. I have read about ones that have the actual
                                                                                                                                                                                                              numbers (degrees) on them that is not what I have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Any suggestions? Heidi

                                                                                                                                                                                                              =====







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                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2395 From: Jolena Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just bought a new pump for my aquariums. I have a 10 gallon and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                              20 gallon. The pump has two spigots (?) for the air to come out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                              but it is too strong for my 10 gallon tank and the fry in it are
                                                                                                                                                                                                              struggling. I can hook my old pump back up to the 10 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                              but what do I do with the open port of the pump. There is not an
                                                                                                                                                                                                              instruction booklet. (isn't that dumb? LOL) Thanks! Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2396 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm confused. Your new pump is too strong, but your old pump has an open port? How did you know your old pump was OK for your fry if you did'nt know what to do with it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I just bought a new pump for my aquariums. I have a 10 gallon and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 20 gallon. The pump has two spigots (?) for the air to come out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but it is too strong for my 10 gallon tank and the fry in it are
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > struggling. I can hook my old pump back up to the 10 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but what do I do with the open port of the pump. There is not an
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > instruction booklet. (isn't that dumb? LOL) Thanks! Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2397 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Acrylic vs glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nope...did a long search for acrylic tanks and could't find any that
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I would call cheap. Some teeny ones for under $50, but even a SIX
                                                                                                                                                                                                              GALLON setup was running $80! Jeesh! On the other hand, I did find
                                                                                                                                                                                                              more reasonable ones than I did when I searched plastic tanks, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                              the larger ones, 55 gallon and up, seemed reasonably priced...but
                                                                                                                                                                                                              still way out of my range.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2398 From: Jolena Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              No.  We had our old pump hooked up to both tanks via a gang valve.  But, it hardly pumped at all.  We bought a new air pump that has 2 oulets coming out for air tubes to hook to.  But, it is too strong for the fry tank.  I just don't know what to do with the open outlet on the new air pump.  Do I leave it open?  Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 5:22 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pump help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm confused. Your new pump is too strong, but your old pump has an open port? How did you know your old pump was OK for your fry if you did'nt know what to do with it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I just bought a new pump for my aquariums.  I have a 10 gallon and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 20 gallon.  The pump has two spigots (?) for the air to come out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but it is too strong for my 10 gallon tank and the fry in it are
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > struggling.  I can hook my old pump back up to the 10 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but what do I do with the open port of the pump.  There is not an
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > instruction booklet.  (isn't that dumb? LOL)  Thanks!  Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2399 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I'm confused. Your new pump is too strong, but your old pump has an open port?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > How did you know your old pump was OK for your fry if you did'nt know what to do
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > with it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > If what you mean by 'the open port is the second port on your new pump, they're meantto split the outflow of air either into two separate streams for the same tank, or to two tanks. There are also couplers that can be used to join tubing from both ports, so when you have two (short or long) tubes attached to the ports, each available end is attached to the coupler, then there's a 'port' available on the coupler to direct the air. There are also 'gang-valves' you can attach to the outflows to direct the air from the pump to the 'gang valves', that may have two or many more 'ports' to distribute the air to as many applications as you think you need. How are you using your pump?

                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I just bought a new pump for my aquariums. I have a 10 gallon and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 20 gallon. The pump has two spigots (?) for the air to come out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > but it is too strong for my 10 gallon tank and the fry in it are
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > struggling. I can hook my old pump back up to the 10 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > but what do I do with the open port of the pump. There is not an
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > instruction booklet. (isn't that dumb? LOL) Thanks! Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2400 From: Jolena Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              We are just using it for the bubble stones.  The mollies and platys like it.  I just want to make sure that it is safe to leave the 2nd port open on the new air pump.  Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 5:36 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pump help.




                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I'm confused. Your new pump is too strong, but your old pump has an open port?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > How did you know your old pump was OK for your fry if you did'nt know what to do
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > with it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >                                 Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >    If what you mean by 'the open port is the second port on your new pump, they're meantto split the outflow of air either into two separate streams for the same tank, or to two tanks. There are also couplers that can be used to join tubing from both ports, so when you have two (short or long) tubes attached to the ports, each available end is attached to the coupler, then there's a 'port' available on the coupler to direct the air. There are also 'gang-valves' you can attach to the outflows to direct the air from the pump to the 'gang valves', that may have two or many more 'ports' to distribute the air to as many applications as you think you need. How are you using your pump?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I just bought a new pump for my aquariums.  I have a 10 gallon and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 20 gallon.  The pump has two spigots (?) for the air to come out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > but it is too strong for my 10 gallon tank and the fry in it are
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > struggling.  I can hook my old pump back up to the 10 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > but what do I do with the open port of the pump.  There is not an
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > instruction booklet.  (isn't that dumb? LOL)  Thanks!  Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2401 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you leave the unused port open, no air will flow to the desired location, if you have what I'm thinking. You could direct the open port to the fry-tank using the gang-valve, but regulate the gang-valve so only the amount of air you want goes to the fry tank. Where does the air leave the tubing? Air-stone, Under-gravel-filter, decoration?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2402 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Theoretically, if you leave one port open, all the air will follow the line of least resistance, and you'll be pumping air into your room. Unless there are two separate motor/diaphragms inside your pump, in which case you should be able to turn one off. Is/are there variable controls/knob?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2403 From: Aaron Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Do Fish get 'Sunburned'?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi All,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I recently got new lights for the planted tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It is a 55 gallon with lots of Marigold, Red & Silver Swordtails;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mickey Mouse, Red, Orange and light colored Platies; and Silver,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  White, Black, Marbled & Dalmation Mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have 4 - 55Watt (220w total) Compact Flourescents on timer for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  total of 12 hours a day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The fish are getting darker on top like closely clustered freckels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  or starting to get sunburned.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've added some Duckweed and Hornwort to float on the surface to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  reduce the light coming thru.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I changed the timers so the front 2 lights (6700K) are on from 10AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to 6PM (8hours) and the back lights (5300K) are on from 3PM to 10PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (7hours), that way its only 110watts most of the day with a 3 hour
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  overlap of full power.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Part of the reason for limiting the light is I do not have any CO2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  added and at 4watts per gallon I've heard it is better to run CO2,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  but I want to be sure that much light is not affecting the fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2404 From: Jolena Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  No knobs.  We have it on now and it is working fine on the side hooked to my bubble stone in the 20 gal tank.  The open port is blowing out air.  Hmmm...  What to do, what to do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 5:49 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pump help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Theoretically, if you leave one port open, all the air will follow the line of least resistance, and you'll be pumping air into your room.  Unless there are two separate motor/diaphragms inside your pump, in which case you should be able to turn one off.  Is/are there variable controls/knob?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage





                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2405 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Acrylic vs glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 6/4/2004 6:23:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nope...did a long search for acrylic tanks and could't find any that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I would call cheap. Some teeny ones for under $50, but even a SIX
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > GALLON setup was running $80! Jeesh! On the other hand, I did find
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > more reasonable ones than I did when I searched plastic tanks, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the larger ones, 55 gallon and up, seemed reasonably
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > priced...but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > still way out of my range.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just curious, when you are searching for tanks are you typing "plastic" or "Acrylic" or "Plexiglass".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You will find more if you type acrylic.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Here are a few on ebay, they are 6 gallon eclipses, not sure what size tank you are looking for. Do you have a size you are looking for?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4306178207&rd=1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4305903148&rd=1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4305760653&rd=1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20755&item=4305557943&rd=1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I typed acrylic into ebay and got about 85 hits, not all are tanks, some are accesories, but they are some deals here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://search.ebay.com/acrylic_Fish_W0QQbsZSearchQQcatrefZC6QQfromZR2QQgotopageZQQlopgZQQsacategoryZ20754QQsapricehiZQQsapriceloZQQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZbsQQsosortorderZ2QQsosortpropertyZ2QQsotrZ2

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2406 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Why don't you attach a line to your gang from the empty port, and run a line from the gang to the fry-tank, and adjust the gang 'till there is'nt too much air to the little-guys?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2407 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/4/2004 4:53:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, emijer@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a couple of questions first I am reading alot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    about spawning and frye.  How can you tell males from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    females?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That depends on the type of fish. Livebearers (for example, Mollies, Guppies, Platies, and Swordtails) are really easy to tell. The males have an appendage called the Gonipodium (spelling??) where the females have regular anal fins.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Egg laying species are different, and I'm absolutely clueless on that matter.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2408 From: wil Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    im new here. ive been having a problem with cloudy and discolored
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    water. after having some trouble ive finally made out with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    community of two fancy goldfish, a standard pleco, and some sort
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of yellow snail that is growing rapidly. i have a 29 gallon with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    underground filters and a penguin outside filter. it seems like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    every two or three weeks i have to do a partial water change in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    order to keep the water from clouding. im starting to think i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    shouldnt have bought those colored rocks, but its too late now. is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it because goldfish are dirty? ive cut down feeding to every other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    day. help!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2409 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: guess what i just got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hey everyone, guess what i just got? i went to a garage sale that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    only had 30 minutes left and they had a whole box that said fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stuff $5.00 but as i got there they where trying to talk some lady
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    into taking it, so the lady said she'd take it, so quickly i told
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that lady that i would by it from her and she said oh no you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have it i didn't really want to buy it. so when i took that and two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    other things i had found the lady said i could have all the stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that they where closing and didn't want to take it back in anyways.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    so hell free stuff can't bet that, so about the tank it's big like a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    20 or 30 gallon (not sure, it's tall i'll measure it,) i put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    pictures in my folder (melanie) if you would like to see. it doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have a lid but had a net two other tanks a bowl and 2 gallon plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank, a neat deco fish tank rock with 2 holes in it and a plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    plant on it, plus plastic trees, fish food, algae rid stuff a ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    test kit, filter, heater, a freshwater tank book, air tube thingy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with a long stick thing to make the back of the tank have bubbles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    all up it. and i probably forgot some. pretty cool i was so excited
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    now to see tommorow if it holds water. well sorry it was long i was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    excited and wanted to tell everyone. MELANIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2410 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/4/2004 10:44:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, lionel_richie666@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it seems like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    every two or three weeks i have to do a partial water change in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    order to keep the water from clouding.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Um, I was under the impression that it was a GOOD idea to do partial water changes every couple of weeks. I personally do one once a week, but I've got my limit of fish!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just out of curiosity, were you expecting to not have to do partial water changes EVER? Or just less often than every couple of weeks or so?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2411 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: guess what i just got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/4/2004 11:03:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, CK147@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    air tube thingy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with a long stick thing to make the back of the tank have bubbles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    all up it.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That's a "bubble wand" ... I've got one in my 15 gallon tank. My mollies love swimming through the bubbles. Congrats on the find, and let us know how the tank holds up for the water holding! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2412 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Looks like you have a new tank setup and your biological-filter needs time to accumulate nitrogen-fixing bacteria to handle your waste. In any event you SHOULD be changing water every week or two about 20 to 50 %. I'd done 50% weekly for around ten years. As for feeding less, if someone decided to feed YOU every other day because you went to privvy too often......? I started with other than Corydoras when I saw and felt sympathy for feeder-goldfish in an LFS, brought them home to a 20 or 30 gallon tank, and before long those little critters, or one of them was close to a foot long. They grew to the point where I convinced myself they'd be better off if the LFS sold them to someone with a pond. The last two I gave away or sold were in a 75 gallon tank. But even if your goldfish are too big for your tank (and they will be if you keep them) if they're not too big and you're not over feeding, your water should eventually clear, as long as you change water properly.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > im new here. ive been having a problem with cloudy and discolored
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > water. after having some trouble ive finally made out with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > community of two fancy goldfish, a standard pleco, and some sort
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of yellow snail that is growing rapidly. i have a 29 gallon with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > underground filters and a penguin outside filter. it seems like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > every two or three weeks i have to do a partial water change in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > order to keep the water from clouding. im starting to think i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > shouldnt have bought those colored rocks, but its too late now. is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it because goldfish are dirty? ive cut down feeding to every other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > day. help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2413 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Forgot about the colored rocks. If you don't know if it's the rocks or the goldfish, there's no reason to cut-back on NORMAL feeding. If the cloudiness is the color of the rocks, get rid of the rocks. Still sounds as if your tank is relatively new and needs time to cycle to maximum efficiency. And you SHOULD be doing regular partial water changes. The routine you'd have with feeding children would be the same with goldfish/fish. You don't feed less if you don't want to change diapers. If the fish are sick, that's another story.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > im new here. ive been having a problem with cloudy and discolored
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > water. after having some trouble ive finally made out with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > community of two fancy goldfish, a standard pleco, and some sort
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of yellow snail that is growing rapidly. i have a 29 gallon with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > underground filters and a penguin outside filter. it seems like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > every two or three weeks i have to do a partial water change in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > order to keep the water from clouding. im starting to think i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > shouldnt have bought those colored rocks, but its too late now. is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it because goldfish are dirty? ive cut down feeding to every other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > day. help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2414 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: guess what i just got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sorry i'm a little new to this, yes the bubble wand, i just set up a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    10 gallon 9 days ago, it's cycling with danios they have a air tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with a stone on the end and the big female loves to swim through
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it. i found the 10 gallon for $5.00 at a garage sale as well. )
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i'll keep you updated on how well it holds water tommorow. =:o)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    MELANIE

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > That's a "bubble wand" ... I've got one in my 15 gallon tank. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mollies love
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > swimming through the bubbles. Congrats on the find, and let us
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    know how the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank holds up for the water holding! :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2415 From: red-eye Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: HELP MY LIVEBEAR'S ARE ABOUT TO HAVE BABIES, CAN SOME ONE GIVE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Make sure you have lots of floating plants for them to hide in and eat :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I like hornwart for babies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    red-eye



                                                                                                                                                                                                                    At 06:24 AM 6/4/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My livebearer tank has 9 gold dust mollies, 6 platies, and 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    guppies, all my females are ready to have babies, anytime now. Can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    some one give me advice on how to keep them alive!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Danielle




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2416 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have egg layers, the males are bigger than the females.Hope this helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Dorothy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/4/2004 4:53:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, emijer@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a couple of questions first I am reading alot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    about spawning and frye.  How can you tell males from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    females?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That depends on the type of fish. Livebearers (for example, Mollies, Guppies, Platies, and Swordtails) are really easy to tell. The males have an appendage called the Gonipodium (spelling??) where the females have regular anal fins.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Egg laying species are different, and I'm absolutely clueless on that matter.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2417 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new fish one gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Heidi, straight up, buy a real heater. You might have an old school
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    heater, tricky and a pain in the rectum, I don't work for Hydor, just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    carry them at my store. I've never been more impressed with a heater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    before. As long as the heater isn't one of the models with the metal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    coil (as carried by PetsMart), buy one. Can't overheat, can't shatter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and can only get to 90* max. That's okay, makes 'um safe.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2418 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Buy a freaking gang valve. They're not expensive and they regulate the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    flow. DO IT NOW. It's cheap and it is doable right away.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2419 From: Smit, Johan (JD) Date: 6/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    TRY USING ONE PORT AND SEE IF THE PUMP IS PUMPING WITH ONE PORT OPEN,IF
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    IT IS NOT PUMPING(SINGLE DIAPRAM)JUST PLUG THE OPEN PORT WITH SOMETHING.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Jolena [mailto:jalfred1@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 12:02 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pump help.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just bought a new pump for my aquariums. I have a 10 gallon and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    20 gallon. The pump has two spigots (?) for the air to come out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    but it is too strong for my 10 gallon tank and the fry in it are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    struggling. I can hook my old pump back up to the 10 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    but what do I do with the open port of the pump. There is not an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    instruction booklet. (isn't that dumb? LOL) Thanks! Jolena






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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2420 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have had my tank for over ten years now its a 29g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tall with 1inch of fish per g of water, all african
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ciclids with 2 plec. with the proper filtration you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    dont need water changes but every 3-6months... I hav
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    e a ugf custom with 2 powerheads, I have a custom bu
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ilt canister build from plans similer to those on ab
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    out.com^s website for marine fish and I have an auto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    matic filler for the tank... I recently built an aut
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    omatic feeder with food for 2 weeks so I can go on v
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    acation. I test my water every 3-5 days. All my ph a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nd ammonia readings are perfect. My ph changes +- .4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    not enough to worry about and my canister dos the r
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    est people ask me all the time how my tank stays so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    clean and when I tell them they think I am lying...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My setup overfilters alot but I like never seeng clo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    udy/dirty tank water. My chiclids breed like rabbitt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    s so if anyone is having problems breeding trytem ou
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    t 1st now I use the fry and adolecants as live food,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    although some live...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <html><body>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >    Looks like you have a new tank setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and your biological-filter needs time to accumulate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nitrogen-fixing bacteria to handle your waste. In an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    y event you SHOULD be changing water every week or t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wo about 20 to 50 %. I'd done 50% weekly for around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ten years. As for feeding less, if someone decided t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    o feed YOU every other day because you went to privv
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    y too often......? I started with other than Corydor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    as when I saw and felt sympathy for feeder-goldfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in an LFS, brought them home to a 20 or 30 gallon ta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nk, and before long those little critters, or one of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    them was close to a foot long. They grew to the poi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nt where I convinced myself they'd be better off if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the LFS sold them to someone with a pond.  The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    last two I gave away or sold were in a 75 gallon tan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    k. But even if your goldfish are too big for your ta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nk (and they will be if you keep them) if they're no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    t too big and you're not over feeding, your water sh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ould eventually clear, as long as you change water p
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    roperly. <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >         &n
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bsp;        
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Joe Pascavage<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > hello<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > im new here.  ive been having a problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with cloudy and discolored <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > water.  after having some trouble ive fi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nally made out with a <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > community of two fancy goldfish,  a stan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    dard pleco,  and some sort <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > of yellow snail that is growing rapidly. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ; i have a 29 gallon with <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > underground filters and a penguin outside fil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ter.  it seems like <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > every two or three weeks i have to do a parti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    al water change in <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > order to keep the water from clouding. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    im starting to think i <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > shouldnt have bought those colored rocks,&nbs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    p; but its too late now.  is <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > it because goldfish are dirty?  ive cut
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    down feeding to every other <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > day. help!<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > wil<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >  <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >  <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Justin MacIver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "No Guts, No Glory"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2421 From: canadian_craftsman Date: 6/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Coralife Compact Flourescent Fixture
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Good Day:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I broke down and purchased the Coralife 4x65Watt CF fixture. There
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    are two switches and plugins. However, the two fans only turn on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with the first switch/set of lights. So if you want to time both you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    always have to the one with the fans on first and last. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    normal?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Also, does anyone have advice on setting up a discus tank?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Michael

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Victoria, BC, Canada
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2422 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    While your proceedures seem to have produced a healthful environment for your fishes, your automatic-filler produces an equivalent water change, which makes the once every six-months water change less than the absolute truth. A plus or minus 4 degree PH change in your proceedure does'nt include the degree of change, as to whether it's radically quick or gradual. Not being an expert, I remember some species can't tolerate, or do well over the PH range you describe, whether it's sudden or gradual. While the bulk of recommendations advise 20% water-change every two weeks, there are other expert advisories that claim 10 to 50% every one or two weeks, along with vacuuming waste from the bottom of the tank, and since Nitrate buildup in my tanks seems to have been the problem with occurance of algal/radiolaria deposits on my plants and surfaces, I decided to do a 50% water change with my 2 75-gallon tanks. One ultimately housed two Veiltail Goldfish, and that tank had a full bottom coverage under-gravel filter with 4 power-heads. I had a Whisper Model 3 (held two bio-bags with two out flows, and a Hagen Aqua Clear 300.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The other tank held at times maybe a hundred or more Plattys and Corydoras'. Twenty to 30 Corys, the remainder made up of Plattys in various stages of developement due to breeding. The Plattys and Corys bred, so buying fish was'nt a problem, finding homes was a problem since I had no transportation. Had a few Otosynchluses' that bred.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just gave my remaining fish (Corys, Otto, Chinese Algae Eaters to an LFS, as my tank was old, needed replacement rather than a tear-down and re-cleaning, and I think my health is'nt what it should be. Sold my Goldfish tank a few years ago to an LFS feeling the fish would be happier in a pond.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm wondering if your fish need a degree of water quality that is'nt handled by automatic topping, since iI believe I've read that Cichlids need PH IN THE ALKALINE range, and that is'nt brought about by autofilling, and water changes every 3 to 6 months. It may be that they're tolerant of PH changes as you describe without adding PH additives. I'm also wondering if you have an authoritative source for your proceedure, since I've read recently that the most often recommendations for water changes may not be the best way to handle water quality. Whenever I changed water, it seemed the fish exhibited behaviour after the change as if experiencing a breath of fresh air. I can't say my water change regime has done harm to my fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    PS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Have you ever noticed an improvement after a major (excluding your automatic filling) that relates to diminished growth of undesireable algal/other deposits?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have had my tank for over ten years now its a 29g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tall with 1inch of fish per g of water, all african
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ciclids with 2 plec. with the proper filtration you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > dont need water changes but every 3-6months... I hav
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > e a ugf custom with 2 powerheads, I have a custom bu
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ilt canister build from plans similer to those on ab
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > out.com^s website for marine fish and I have an auto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > matic filler for the tank... I recently built an aut
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > omatic feeder with food for 2 weeks so I can go on v
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > acation. I test my water every 3-5 days. All my ph a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nd ammonia readings are perfect. My ph changes +- .4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not enough to worry about and my canister dos the r
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > est people ask me all the time how my tank stays so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > clean and when I tell them they think I am lying...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > My setup overfilters alot but I like never seeng clo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > udy/dirty tank water. My chiclids breed like rabbitt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > s so if anyone is having problems breeding trytem ou
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > t 1st now I use the fry and adolecants as live food,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > although some live...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <html><body>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >    Looks like you have a new tank setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and your biological-filter needs time to accumulate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nitrogen-fixing bacteria to handle your waste. In an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > y event you SHOULD be changing water every week or t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > wo about 20 to 50 %. I'd done 50% weekly for around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ten years. As for feeding less, if someone decided t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > o feed YOU every other day because you went to privv
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > y too often......? I started with other than Corydor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > as when I saw and felt sympathy for feeder-goldfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in an LFS, brought them home to a 20 or 30 gallon ta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nk, and before long those little critters, or one of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them was close to a foot long. They grew to the poi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nt where I convinced myself they'd be better off if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the LFS sold them to someone with a pond.  The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > last two I gave away or sold were in a 75 gallon tan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > k. But even if your goldfish are too big for your ta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nk (and they will be if you keep them) if they're no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > t too big and you're not over feeding, your water sh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ould eventually clear, as long as you change water p
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > roperly. <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >         &n
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > bsp;        
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >     Joe Pascavage<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > hello<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > im new here.  ive been having a problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with cloudy and discolored <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > water.  after having some trouble ive fi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nally made out with a <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > community of two fancy goldfish,  a stan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > dard pleco,  and some sort <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > of yellow snail that is growing rapidly. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ; i have a 29 gallon with <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > underground filters and a penguin outside fil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ter.  it seems like <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > every two or three weeks i have to do a parti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > al water change in <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > order to keep the water from clouding. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > im starting to think i <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > shouldnt have bought those colored rocks,&nbs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > p; but its too late now.  is <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > it because goldfish are dirty?  ive cut
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > down feeding to every other <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > day. help!<BR>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Justin MacIver
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    h
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2423 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My ph stays at roughly 8.2 +- .4 maxing out at 8.6 a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nd minimum 7.8 the chiclids I have need 7.5-8.5 for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    best results my nitate and nitites are very low and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my ammonia lv is below the scale on my test kit. I a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ctually read about this combo filtration on about.co
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    m and garf.org it has 2 biofiltration and 1 chemical
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    /mechanical which is enough to filter 500g if it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    all running at optimium, I run them on timers to mat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ch my feeding schedual to prevent filtering out the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    food... My ugf w/powerheads run all the time... I wa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    s told by a professional aqua builder that if I were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to build the filters for him in custom sizes he wou
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ld buil e some aquariums, I have already built 1 gar
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    f style tank and I love it... my canister filter has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a mesh screen that filters solids at I believe 10 m
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    icrons level has bioballs for bio filter and a charc
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    oal chem flter at the base I have it set to run abou
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    t 1 hour afer feeding untill about 4 hrs before the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    next feeding and they know when its off that food is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    commingsoon. I am about to build another garf tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    for marn fish and a new filter... My autowater fill
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    er doesnt add much water maybe 2-4 gallons a month n
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    o whee near what alot recommend, but as I said my fi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sh dot seem harmed by this and all my toxins in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tankare VERY low, so I dont see why I would need it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <html><body>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >       Hi,<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >         While y
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    our proceedures seem to have produced a healthful en
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    vironment for your fishes, your automatic-filler pro
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    duces an equivalent water change, which makes the on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ce every six-months water change less than the absol
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ute truth.  A plus or minus 4 degree PH change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in your proceedure does'nt include the degree of cha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nge, as to whether it's radically quick or gradual.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Not being an expert, I remember some species can't t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    olerate, or do well over the PH range you describe,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    whether it's sudden or gradual. While the bulk of re
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    commendations advise 20% water-change every two week
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    s, there are other expert advisories that claim 10 t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    o 50% every one or two weeks, along with vacuuming w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    aste from the bottom of the tank, and since Nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    buildup in my tanks seems to have been the problem w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ith occurance of algal/radiolaria deposits on my pla
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nts and surfaces, I decided to do a 50% water change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with my 2 75-gallon tanks. One ultimately housed tw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    o Veiltail Goldfish, and that tank had a full bottom
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    coverage under-gravel filter with 4 power-heads. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    had a Whisper Model 3 (held two bio-bags with two ou
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    t flows, and a Hagen Aqua Clear 300. <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >     The other tank held at times ma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ybe a hundred or more Plattys and Corydoras'. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Twenty to 30 Corys, the remainder made up of Plattys
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in various stages of developement due to breeding.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The Plattys and Corys bred, so buying fish was'nt a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    problem, finding homes was a problem since I had no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    transportation. Had a few Otosynchluses' that bred.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >    I just gave my remaining fish (Corys,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Otto, Chinese Algae Eaters to an LFS, as my tank wa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    s old, needed replacement rather than a tear-down an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    d re-cleaning, and I think my health is'nt what it s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hould be. Sold my Goldfish tank a few years ago to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    n LFS feeling the fish would be happier in a pond. <
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >    I'm wondering if your fish need a deg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ree of water quality that is'nt handled by automatic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    topping, since iI believe I've read that Cichlids n
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    eed PH IN THE ALKALINE range, and that is'nt brought
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    about by autofilling, and water changes every 3 to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    6 months. It may be that they're tolerant of PH chan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ges as you describe without adding PH additives. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    also wondering if you have an authoritative source
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    for your proceedure, since I've read recently that t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    he most often recommendations for water changes may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    not be the best way to handle water quality. Wheneve
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    r I changed water, it seemed the fish exhibited beha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    viour after the change as if experiencing a breath o
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    f fresh air. I can't say my water change regime has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    done harm to my fish.<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >         &n
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bsp;        
                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Joe Pascavage<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >         &n
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bsp;        
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            &nbs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    p;        &n
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bsp;        
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            &nbs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    p;  PS<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >        Have you ever
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    noticed an improvement after a major (excluding you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    r automatic filling) that relates to diminished grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    th of undesireable algal/other deposits?<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I have had my tank for over ten years now its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a 29g <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > tall with 1inch of fish per g of water, all a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    frican <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > ciclids with 2 plec. with the proper filtrati
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    on you <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > dont need water changes but every 3-6months..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    . I hav<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > e a ugf custom with 2 powerheads, I have a cu
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stom bu<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > ilt canister build from plans similer to thos
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    e on ab<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > out.com^s website for marine fish and I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    an auto<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > matic filler for the tank... I recently built
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    an aut<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > omatic feeder with food for 2 weeks so I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    go on v<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > acation. I test my water every 3-5 days. All
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my ph a<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > nd ammonia readings are perfect. My ph change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    s +- .4<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >  not enough to worry about and my canist
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    er dos the r<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > est people ask me all the time how my tank st
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ays so <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > clean and when I tell them they think I am ly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ing... <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > My setup overfilters alot but I like never se
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    eng clo<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > udy/dirty tank water. My chiclids breed like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    rabbitt<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > s so if anyone is having problems breeding tr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ytem ou<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > t 1st now I use the fry and adolecants as liv
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    e food,<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >  although some live...<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > <html><body><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > <tt><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &nbsp;&nbsp; Looks like you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a new tank setup <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > and your biological-filter needs time to accu
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mulate <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > nitrogen-fixing bacteria to handle your waste
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    . In an<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > y event you SHOULD be changing water every we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ek or t<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > wo about 20 to 50 %. I'd done 50% weekly for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    around <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > ten years. As for feeding less, if someone de
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cided t<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > o feed YOU every other day because you went t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    o privv<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > y too often......? I started with other than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Corydor<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > as when I saw and felt sympathy for feeder-go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ldfish <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > in an LFS, brought them home to a 20 or 30 ga
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    llon ta<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > nk, and before long those little critters, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    one of<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >  them was close to a foot long. They gre
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    w to the poi<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > nt where I convinced myself they'd be better
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    off if <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the LFS sold them to someone with a pond.&
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ;nbsp; The <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > last two I gave away or sold were in a 75 gal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lon tan<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > k. But even if your goldfish are too big for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    your ta<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > nk (and they will be if you keep them) if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    y're no<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > t too big and you're not over feeding, your w
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ater sh<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > ould eventually clear, as long as you change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    water p<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > roperly. <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amp;nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Joe Pascavage&
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lt;BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; hello<BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; im new here.&nbsp; ive been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    having a problem <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > with cloudy and discolored <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; water.&nbsp; after having s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ome trouble ive fi<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > nally made out with a <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; community of two fancy goldfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ,&nbsp; a stan<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > dard pleco,&nbsp; and some sort <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ;<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; of yellow snail that is growing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    rapidly.&nbsp<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > ; i have a 29 gallon with <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; underground filters and a pengu
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in outside fil<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > ter.&nbsp; it seems like <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; every two or three weeks i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to do a parti<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > al water change in <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; order to keep the water from cl
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ouding.&nbsp; <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > im starting to think i <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; shouldnt have bought those colo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    red rocks,&nbs<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > p; but its too late now.&nbsp; is <BR&
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gt;<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; it because goldfish are dirty?&
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amp;nbsp; ive cut <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > down feeding to every other <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; day. help!<BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; wil<BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; <BR><BR>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; Yahoo! Groups Links<BR><B
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    R>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > &gt; <BR><BR>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Justin MacIver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "No Guts, No Glory"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2424 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: 20 GALLON TANK LID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    well the tank is about a 20 gallon high tank, i used a gallon water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    jug and it took me filling it about 20 times to empty the tank back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    out. I let it sit filled for about 5 hours and there was no leaking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    yippy. =:O) so a question for anyone, is do you know where i can find
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a cheap lid online or does anyone here have one left over from a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    broken tank they are willing to sell cheap? I will get the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    measurements when i get home, I will pay the shipping or i can pick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it up if you live in kansas close to me. email me if you have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    info, thanks melanie ck147@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2425 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can make your own its real easy and plans are ev
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    erywhere i use alot of about.coms plans under marine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish in hobbys

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <html><body>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello, <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >   well the tank is about a 20 gallon high tan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    k, i used a gallon water <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > jug and it took me filling it about 20 times to em
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    pty the tank back <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > out. I let it sit filled for about 5 hours and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    re was no leaking <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > yippy. =:O) so a question for anyone, is do you kn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ow where i can find <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a cheap lid online or does anyone here have one le
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ft over from a <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > broken tank they are willing to sell cheap? I will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    get the <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > measurements when i get home, I will pay the shipp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ing or i can pick <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it up if you live in kansas close to me. email me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    if you have any <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > info, thanks melanie ck147@...<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > </tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <br><br>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Get newest messages in RSS(Really Simple Syndicati
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    on) XML><BR>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Justin MacIver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "No Guts, No Glory"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2426 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    www.saltaquarium.about.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think this is the link..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <html><body>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello, <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >   well the tank is about a 20 gallon high tan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    k, i used a gallon water <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > jug and it took me filling it about 20 times to em
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    pty the tank back <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > out. I let it sit filled for about 5 hours and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    re was no leaking <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > yippy. =:O) so a question for anyone, is do you kn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ow where i can find <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a cheap lid online or does anyone here have one le
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ft over from a <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > broken tank they are willing to sell cheap? I will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    get the <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > measurements when i get home, I will pay the shipp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ing or i can pick <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it up if you live in kansas close to me. email me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    if you have any <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > info, thanks melanie ck147@...<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > </tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <br><br>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Get newest messages in RSS(Really Simple Syndicati
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    on) XML><BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Just add the following URL to your RSS reader or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    web log.<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    .groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquari
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    um/rss</a> <BR>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lFishAquarium/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freshw
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Justin MacIver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "No Guts, No Glory"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2427 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What I did eventually was cut four pieces of 1/4 inch glass to dimensions to fit my 75 gallon tank. I cut the glass so that there were two pieces on each side, front to back, with enough space left to allow inflow and outflow for my cannister filters and trickle filter siphon tubes. Since there were two openings at the rear of my tank to allow the filter in/outtakes, I cut strips of lexan to fit the spaces and allow the presence of my tubes. Maybe someone you know has scraps of either and maybe they can do the cutting if you can't. When the glass is cut, you should use a fine grind stone to remove the sharp edges from the glass.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you know anyone in the trades, or a grocery store, 5 gallon Drywall-compound buckets, or the equivalent pickle or whatever buckets, cleaned, and arrayed opposite a siphon from your aquarium, for draining water (these buckets would be used ONLY FOR DRAINING WATER, NOT ADDING WATER TO THE TANK) , are a LOT more convenient than your current setup. If you have plants, aquarium water is good for your plants. As far as filling, I bought 5, 2 1/2 gallon plastic buckets from Rite Aid, the kind with printed graduations inside, magic-markered the graduations, so I could see how much water when needed, and use those to fill the tank during water-changes. You could cl;ean them before first use with isopropyl alcohol or white vinegar, and don't use them for anything else but your aquarium. NEVER put chemicals(except stuff like salt or dechlorinator, etc) or soap in those buckets!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    jOE pASCAVAGE


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > well the tank is about a 20 gallon high tank, i used a gallon water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > jug and it took me filling it about 20 times to empty the tank back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > out. I let it sit filled for about 5 hours and there was no leaking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > yippy. =:O) so a question for anyone, is do you know where i can find
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a cheap lid online or does anyone here have one left over from a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > broken tank they are willing to sell cheap? I will get the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > measurements when i get home, I will pay the shipping or i can pick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it up if you live in kansas close to me. email me if you have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > info, thanks melanie ck147@...
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2428 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: guess what i just got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can find out the gallons by multiplying the height by the length by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the width. Then divide that by 231. H x W x L divided by 231, really,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it's that easy. Bow fronts and odd shapes are a little harder, wouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    even know how, but I know there's a formula that works by square inches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of surface x height x length, something like that, just don't remember
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2429 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/5/2004 11:14:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, CK147@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    so a question for anyone, is do you know where i can find
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a cheap lid online or does anyone here have one left over from a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    broken tank they are willing to sell cheap?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What sort of aquarium lid are you looking for? Do you want one that has lights as part of the hood? Or did you want just a hinged lid to cover the top, and use external light source?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Measurements are important when comparing prices ... different sized hoods and tops are priced differently. Below are some sample prices I know of.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you just want a hinged lid, www.DrsFosterSmith.com has a Perfecto Glass Canopy for a 30" for $13.99. (I'm looking at paper catalogue that came with my daughter's Eclipse Explorer, so not sure of exact link for that item.) All it is is hinged glass, with plastic at the back that can be cut to fit around your equipment. You would need a lamp or something outside the tank for a light source. Item # is KC-114916.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you want a full hood, with light included, they have a 24" for $31.99. Item # is KC-114396. It comes with a fluorescent light bulb. My tank is 15 gallon, but has the length and width measurements of a 10 gallon (it's tall) so I bought one cheap at walmart that is just like the one in this catalogue labeled "All-Glass Economy Full Hood" ... it's 20" and they have it here for $14.49. Item # for this one is KC-930208.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    All prices I've mentioned are in US dollars.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope this helps some!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2430 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Pump help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jolena,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If I understand your situation properly, you have an air pump with two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    outlets, and no pump internal way to regulate the outlets. You are also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    using the pump to supply just an airstone or two into one tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To maximize the air flow from the pump, and to keep the pump running at its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    best efficiency, You'll need some air tubing and some valves. You'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    purchase the air tubing as a length sufficient to cover the lengths you will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    need for this project. It does not hurt to overbuy, as you can store the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    excess for later use as your needs grow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You will need two short lengths of tubing to attach to each of the air
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    outlets on the pump. These will then be attached to the flow through
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    connections on a three-way valve. From the three-way valve, which should be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    set for its maximum flow (i.e. open all the way), place a length to a gang
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    valve with enough outlets for your airstones, with the requisite loop to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    prevent water from flowing back to the pump in case of a pump failure. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you only have two outlets, you may wish to just use a couple pf three-way
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    valves for this. Open the valves to the maximum.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Finally, you need a two-way valve. This is the valve that you will use to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    adjust the flow rate through the system and serve as a blow off for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    excess air. Depending on the amount of air coming through the blow off, you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    may wish to muffle it some by stuffing a pipe cleaner, or something similar
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    into the valve opening.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    your airstones, or bubble wands, will become clogged over time and not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    deliver the same amount of air to the tank. There are ways to clean them,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    but they are cheap enough to just replace when this happens.. You may also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wish to adjust to e air flow from time to time to let different amounts of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    air into the tank to give some variation to your wet charges.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Jolena [mailto:jalfred1@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 6:40 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pump help.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    We are just using it for the bubble stones. The mollies and platys like it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just want to make sure that it is safe to leave the 2nd port open on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    new air pump. Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: j.pascavage@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: j.pascavage@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Cc: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 5:36 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pump help.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'm confused. Your new pump is too strong, but your old pump has an open
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    port?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > How did you know your old pump was OK for your fry if you did'nt know what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If what you mean by 'the open port is the second port on your new pump,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they're meantto split the outflow of air either into two separate streams
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    for the same tank, or to two tanks. There are also couplers that can be used
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to join tubing from both ports, so when you have two (short or long) tubes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    attached to the ports, each available end is attached to the coupler, then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    there's a 'port' available on the coupler to direct the air. There are also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    'gang-valves' you can attach to the outflows to direct the air from the pump
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to the 'gang valves', that may have two or many more 'ports' to distribute
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the air to as many applications as you think you need. How are you using
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    your pump?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I just bought a new pump for my aquariums. I have a 10 gallon and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > 20 gallon. The pump has two spigots (?) for the air to come out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > but it is too strong for my 10 gallon tank and the fry in it are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > struggling. I can hook my old pump back up to the 10 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > but what do I do with the open port of the pump. There is not an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > instruction booklet. (isn't that dumb? LOL) Thanks! Jolena
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2431 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I looked but didn't seem to see any lids. walmart has one for 32
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bucks, but that's a little pricey..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > www.saltaquarium.about.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I think this is the link..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2432 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wow, that's too much work for me i'm lazy and have no building
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    talent of anykind, but thanks, if all else fails i;ll do that....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    =:O)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > What I did eventually was cut four pieces of 1/4 inch glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to dimensions to fit my 75 gallon tank. I cut the glass so that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    there were two pieces on each side, front to back, with enough space
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    left to allow inflow and outflow for my cannister filters and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    trickle filter siphon tubes. Since there were two openings at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    rear of my tank to allow the filter in/outtakes, I cut strips of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lexan to fit the spaces and allow the presence of my tubes. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    someone you know has scraps of either and maybe they can do the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cutting if you can't. When the glass is cut, you should use a fine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    grind stone to remove the sharp edges from the glass.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If you know anyone in the trades, or a grocery store, 5 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Drywall-compound buckets, or the equivalent pickle or whatever
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    buckets, cleaned, and arrayed opposite a siphon from your aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    for draining water (these buckets would be used ONLY FOR DRAINING
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    WATER, NOT ADDING WATER TO THE TANK) , are a LOT more convenient
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    than your current setup. If you have plants, aquarium water is good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    for your plants. As far as filling, I bought 5, 2 1/2 gallon plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    buckets from Rite Aid, the kind with printed graduations inside,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    magic-markered the graduations, so I could see how much water when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    needed, and use those to fill the tank during water-changes. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    could cl;ean them before first use with isopropyl alcohol or white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    vinegar, and don't use them for anything else but your aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    NEVER put chemicals(except stuff like salt or dechlorinator, etc) or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    soap in those buckets!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > jOE pASCAVAGE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2433 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: guess what i just got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    all this for just $5.- ???

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thats a steal....SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- iloveguppies <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hey everyone, guess what i just got? i went to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > garage sale that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > only had 30 minutes left and they had a whole box
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that said fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > stuff $5.00 but as i got there they where trying to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > talk some lady
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > into taking it, so the lady said she'd take it, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > quickly i told
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that lady that i would by it from her and she said
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > oh no you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have it i didn't really want to buy it. so when i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > took that and two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > other things i had found the lady said i could have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > all the stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that they where closing and didn't want to take it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > back in anyways.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > so hell free stuff can't bet that, so about the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it's big like a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 20 or 30 gallon (not sure, it's tall i'll measure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it,) i put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pictures in my folder (melanie) if you would like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > see. it doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have a lid but had a net two other tanks a bowl and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 2 gallon plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank, a neat deco fish tank rock with 2 holes in it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and a plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plant on it, plus plastic trees, fish food, algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > rid stuff a ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > test kit, filter, heater, a freshwater tank book,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > air tube thingy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with a long stick thing to make the back of the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have bubbles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > all up it. and i probably forgot some. pretty cool i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > was so excited
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > now to see tommorow if it holds water. well sorry it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > was long i was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > excited and wanted to tell everyone. MELANIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2434 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: guess what i just got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    NO NOT EVEN $5.00 THE LADY SAID I COULD HAVE IT ALL FREE. =:o) ISN'T
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    THAT GREAT, YOU HARDLY FIND PEOPLE THAT NICE ANYMORE.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > all this for just $5.- ???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Thats a steal....SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- iloveguppies <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > hey everyone, guess what i just got? i went to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > garage sale that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > only had 30 minutes left and they had a whole box
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > that said fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > stuff $5.00 but as i got there they where trying to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > talk some lady
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > into taking it, so the lady said she'd take it, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > quickly i told
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > that lady that i would by it from her and she said
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > oh no you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > have it i didn't really want to buy it. so when i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > took that and two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > other things i had found the lady said i could have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > all the stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > that they where closing and didn't want to take it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > back in anyways.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > so hell free stuff can't bet that, so about the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > it's big like a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > 20 or 30 gallon (not sure, it's tall i'll measure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > it,) i put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > pictures in my folder (melanie) if you would like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > see. it doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > have a lid but had a net two other tanks a bowl and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > 2 gallon plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > tank, a neat deco fish tank rock with 2 holes in it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > and a plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > plant on it, plus plastic trees, fish food, algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > rid stuff a ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > test kit, filter, heater, a freshwater tank book,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > air tube thingy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > with a long stick thing to make the back of the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > have bubbles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > all up it. and i probably forgot some. pretty cool i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > was so excited
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > now to see tommorow if it holds water. well sorry it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > was long i was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > excited and wanted to tell everyone. MELANIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2435 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: guess what i just got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wow Thats too Generous of that person..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    BTW howz the tank doing i mean did u fill it up with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    water and checked the conditions...??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- iloveguppies <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > NO NOT EVEN $5.00 THE LADY SAID I COULD HAVE IT ALL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > FREE. =:o) ISN'T
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > THAT GREAT, YOU HARDLY FIND PEOPLE THAT NICE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ANYMORE.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > all this for just $5.- ???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Thats a steal....SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- iloveguppies <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > hey everyone, guess what i just got? i went to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > garage sale that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > only had 30 minutes left and they had a whole
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > box
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > that said fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > stuff $5.00 but as i got there they where trying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > talk some lady
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > into taking it, so the lady said she'd take it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > quickly i told
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > that lady that i would by it from her and she
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > said
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > oh no you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > have it i didn't really want to buy it. so when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > took that and two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > other things i had found the lady said i could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > all the stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > that they where closing and didn't want to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > back in anyways.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > so hell free stuff can't bet that, so about the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > it's big like a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > 20 or 30 gallon (not sure, it's tall i'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > measure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > it,) i put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > pictures in my folder (melanie) if you would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > see. it doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > have a lid but had a net two other tanks a bowl
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > 2 gallon plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > tank, a neat deco fish tank rock with 2 holes in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > and a plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > plant on it, plus plastic trees, fish food,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > rid stuff a ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > test kit, filter, heater, a freshwater tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > book,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > air tube thingy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > with a long stick thing to make the back of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > have bubbles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > all up it. and i probably forgot some. pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > cool i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > was so excited
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > now to see tommorow if it holds water. well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sorry it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > was long i was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > excited and wanted to tell everyone. MELANIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2436 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: guess what i just got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    yup, I filled it and left it outside for a few or more hours and no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    leaks so at the moment untill i can find a lid cheap so i can set it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    up, (cats would have to much fun with out a lid)it's housing my lone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fire bellied newt. it's covered by photo albums. hehehe


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > wow Thats too Generous of that person..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > BTW howz the tank doing i mean did u fill it up with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > water and checked the conditions...??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2437 From: pearce.p@worldnet.att.net Date: 6/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 20 GALLON TANK LID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they have plans for lids...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <html><body>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <tt>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I looked but didn't seem to see any lids. walmart
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    has one for 32 <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > bucks, but that's a little pricey..<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > www.saltaquarium.about.com<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I think this is the link..<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > </tt>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Justin MacIver
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "No Guts, No Glory"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2438 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: New arrivals
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hello, we had some feeder guppies that where in with my newt, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    today the female had babies, only 2 so either they got eaten or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that's all she had because she was so tiny she never looked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    pregnant. the babies are so cute eyeballs with tails. will they be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ok in a one gallon tank, should i add a air pump to it. i didn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    expect them so i just grabbed a tank i had.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2439 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: New What to do?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Briefly, This started with my DD classroom project needing homes for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the summer and for good. We adopted two goldfish...I picked up a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank kit at the store..while my DH talked to a friend.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Goldfish doing well and home for two weeks now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Problem, We had a 55 gallon tank with a nice stand delivered and set
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    up by a friend who has 6+ larger ones for many years. Met his one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    who is 10 years old and HUGE now. Gold fish are just going to stay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in the kit tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    He "trained" us a little, and I read about fish for my DD tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This tank was set up 7 days ago with damp rocks/bacteria that he had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    at his house. He said we only needed to wait 2 days. He made this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sound so easy but I am getting stressed reading all the do's and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    donts but...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Anyway, proper planning didnt happen...DH and my 3 girls came home
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wiht several fish this evening (without my permission to do so yet).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am feeling a bit in the dark, didnt plan and read before he brings
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a bunch home...but my "mothering" is keeping me up until almost 3am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    worried about one of the fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    He is hanging around the filter and near the heater, some times
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (well half of the time) upright...moving fast at times but heading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    into corners and hanging out there. He doesnt seem to be breathing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fast or about to die yet (had a few "festival" ones die on me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    growing up)...he is just not acting like the other two of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    same...he seems lost. Occasionally he will swim at the level as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    other two but prefers to be up in the flow of the filter water and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    such.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    They are some kind of shark, slim silver with black tips. Three of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    those, and the one is acting funny.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Also in there is one that sticks to the wall of the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    6 little ones that swim in schools.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    They have been in there for 6 hours now and all are acting well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    except for the other one...not sure he is sick or just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    scared/stressed.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any input on this little guy would be wonderful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I really dont need to know how wrong we are so far...figured that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    out already...just need to know what to do better from here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    DH has the 14 day return policy mentality, I simply dont want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    kill this little guy. Stumped with how the others seem to be doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    well though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks! Sorry for such a goofy typo post but I have been up all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    night trying to find out more about his behavior without much luck.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2440 From: Tri mac Date: 6/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Hey great group -come visit mine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2441 From: Patrick Date: 6/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: New What to do?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think this might be my first post here.  I see a lot of people I know of from other groups, so hi to ya'll.  Ok, this is what you need to know.  That "shark, slim silver with black tips" sounds like a bala shark, so take those back to the store asap.  They need a tank over 100 gallons and a school.  You also need to come back with the names of the other fish.  Six little ones that swim in schools could be young balas, or neon tetras.  If I was guessing, I would say the smaller ones are some type of tetra, just because the chance are good that they are tetras.  And the one that sticks to the side could be a pleco, CAE, ore otto (and some others).  The one that sticks to the side is probably a pleco.  And the goldfish should be in a bigger (about 29 or 30 gallons) tank at some point.  An outside pond that is deep enough not to freeze to the bottom might be a permanent home for them if you can make one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The rule for starting a tank is 1/2 inch of adult fish per gallon, which means you should research to find out the adult length of the fish you will buy first.  There are many places online that have fish profiles, which will give you a description of water pH and hardness and their adult size.  Pay no attention to pH and hardness, but you will need to get test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate if you want to check the progress of the cycle (see link below), which should be shortened by the addition of rocks with bacteria from another tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Don't worry.  It isn't as complicated as I have made it sound.  Really all you need to do now is return the bala sharks, keep up weekly 25% water changes and wait.  The goldfish will be fine for a while.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Good luck!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2442 From: Seti Date: 6/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New What to do?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hello and welcome to the group! I'm quite new to fishkeeping myself,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      have had my first tank for only a few weeks, so I'll offer you some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tips from the newbie's pespective. First off, don't panic, I know how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      overwhealming it can be, but you'll be surprised how with some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      research and practice you'll start "getting it" more and more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Learning about the nitrogen cycle is important, once you get the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      concept you'll be much more successful in keeping your fish healthy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and happy. By all means, get the water test kits; ammonia and nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      are the most important, both these substances are toxic to fish and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ideally you want both of these to be 0. It's also helpful to know the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hardness of your water (GH) and Ph. Petsmart carries a "master test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      kit" for under $20 which includes all four of these tests.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      A good beginner site that helped me a lot:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://faq.thekrib.com/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Go to "Your first aquarium" section and pretty much read through all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of it...I know, it's a lot of reading, but this way you won't be so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      much in the dark about what your doing, and believe me once you know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      more it cuts down on the stress - for you AND the fish! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It would be helpful if you could find a good fish store that would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      actually help you in selecting your fish; however, I usually like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      do my research beforehand and show up at the store having a pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      good idea about what I'm looking for. At the very least, find out the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      names of the fish you're getting and look up some facts about them -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      adult size, compatibility (some fish are aggressive, and will attack
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      other fish) and special requirements (many species do much better in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      schools than alone or in pairs, etc).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Some good "fish profile" sites to look at:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.fishindex.com/library/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Right now, I would find out exactly what kind of fish you have, and go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      from there. Also, read up on the cycle, and start testing your water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Good "hardy" fish to start with are zebra danios; certain other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      species can be much more sensitive to water conditions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~~Seti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "hazyhumid2"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Briefly, This started with my DD classroom project needing homes for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the summer and for good. We adopted two goldfish...I picked up a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > tank kit at the store..while my DH talked to a friend.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Goldfish doing well and home for two weeks now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Problem, We had a 55 gallon tank with a nice stand delivered and set
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > up by a friend who has 6+ larger ones for many years. Met his one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > who is 10 years old and HUGE now. Gold fish are just going to stay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in the kit tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2443 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New What to do?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you, After I posted last night I went back in there to witness
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the other two saying hey guy come with us...they are all three
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      together now...acting very healthy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      All I got last night from DH was "we talked to the guys there and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      they said this is right, this and that" every time I would ask
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      things like are the compatable etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I will do my own research today, I know thier names are on a paper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      somewhere..and see how big.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now my question with thier expectant size...how many years does that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      take? I figured as they grew they would get bigger tanks....then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      again they wont grow unless its big enough? This tank is 55 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and seems huge to these fish right now to start growing. The gold
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish have thier own tank and are going to stay there...but I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      told I needed one gallon per goldfish when we planned for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      them...well i quickly realized 2 gallons is not enought for these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      guys...so i will be garage Sales for a larger tank for them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks! I bet people like me drive you all nuts huh! LOL At least we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      are trying right? sigh.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ok, I will read more...today.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I think this might be my first post here. I see a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      people I know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > of from other groups, so hi to ya'll. Ok, this is what you need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to know.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > That "shark, slim silver with black tips" sounds like a bala
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      shark, so take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > those back to the store asap. They need a tank over 100 gallons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > school. You also need to come back with the names of the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish. Six
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > little ones that swim in schools could be young balas, or neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tetras. If I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > was guessing, I would say the smaller ones are some type of tetra,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > because the chance are good that they are tetras. And the one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that sticks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > to the side could be a pleco, CAE, ore otto (and some others).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The one that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sticks to the side is probably a pleco. And the goldfish should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      be in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > bigger (about 29 or 30 gallons) tank at some point. An outside
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pond that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > deep enough not to freeze to the bottom might be a permanent home
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      for them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > if you can make one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The rule for starting a tank is 1/2 inch of adult fish per
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      gallon, which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > means you should research to find out the adult length of the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > buy first. There are many places online that have fish profiles,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      which will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > give you a description of water pH and hardness and their adult
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      size. Pay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > no attention to pH and hardness, but you will need to get test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      kits for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate if you want to check the progress of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > (see link below), which should be shortened by the addition of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      rocks with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > bacteria from another tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Don't worry. It isn't as complicated as I have made it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sound. Really
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > all you need to do now is return the bala sharks, keep up weekly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      25% water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > changes and wait. The goldfish will be fine for a while.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Good luck!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2444 From: Patrick Date: 6/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New What to do?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've heard that bala sharks can outgrow a 55 gallon in 2 or 3 years, but by that time they are too hard to capture to move.  Plecos might grow 10 inches in 1 year, but mine hasn't grown 5 inches in 2 years.  It varies by fish and the conditions they are kept in.  It is like people.  People who have poor diets will not grow as well as those with good diets.  1 gallon for a goldfish?  Where did you hear that?  :)  There are lots of bad myths about goldfish.  And there is no such thing as a goldfish bowl, they are just bowls that some misled people put goldfish in.  And fish do not grow to fit in the tank they are kept in.  :)  You are all learning that you can't always trust what you are told by people who make money according to what they tell you.  It will be ok, though.  The majority of fish stores are not like that.  Get your family to research with you.   I always know what I am getting before I get it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Good luck.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2445 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New What to do?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It is NEVER TRUE that a fish will grow to the size of a tank. What is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        true is that they will reach a certain size, then over pollute the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and start releasing hormones that slow their growth. This pollution and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the hormones create enormous stress on the fish, they get sick and die.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Because they are dead, they don't grow anymore. It's that simple.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2446 From: jim Date: 6/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: fluval 404 canister filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        our church group was given a 55 gal aquarium with a fluval 404
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        canister filter system ,, unfortunately , it did not come with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        instruction booklet ,, anybody have 1 to spare ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        also ,, activated carbon ,,, i know it " deactivates" over time ,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        can it be " reactivated" ? and , just how is it done ,, ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2447 From: jim Date: 6/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: message activities of this group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        recently having joined this group and a few others ,, i have noticed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that a lot of folks evidently do the same ,, seems that some ,,mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        everything to everybody, and subsequently ,, i dont have time to feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        my 6 tanks of fish because i am busy reading a zillion e-mails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        totally unrelated to any subjects i may find of interest, but i do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        have some questions for the others ,,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1,,a fluval 404 canister filter & 55 gal tank was given to our
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        church ,, is this enough filter for marine tank ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2,,everywhere i seem to look ,, folks are poo-pooing use of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        undergravel filters ,, are they passe?,, they used to work so well!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3,,activated carbon ,, i know it deactivates with time ,, can it be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        reactivated ?? how ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        4,, any tips on setting up 55 gal marine tank (church)from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        scratch ,,, conensus is folks want " the NEMO fish " any success
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stories / spawning requirements ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        5,, any info , whatsoever regarding "khuli loaches"(home)spawning,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wild environment,water quality issues. etc ,, anything at all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2448 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: fluval 404 canister filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lol. Activated carbon once deactivated can be re-activated in a furnace in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the absence of oxygen. I think it was 1200 degrees C temperature in a vacuum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        chamber... not sure but you can get lots of information from the net.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Certainly not a home project. Besides, if you keep live plants, activated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        carbon will be of little use and more damage :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >From: jim [mailto:alls2@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Sent: 09 June 2004 18:53
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] fluval 404 canister filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >our church group was given a 55 gal aquarium with a fluval 404
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >canister filter system ,, unfortunately , it did not come with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >instruction booklet ,, anybody have 1 to spare ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >also ,, activated carbon ,,, i know it " deactivates" over time ,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >can it be " reactivated" ? and , just how is it done ,, ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2449 From: Seti Date: 6/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: message activities of this group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Seems like your group e-mail settings are set for "individual
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        e-mails"; a better way to do it is either set it to "daily digest",
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        then you get an e-mail once a day containing all the messages for that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        day - or "special notices"/"no e-mail", then you can just access the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        posts through the group's home page. You can make these adjustments by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        going to "edit my membership" link at the top right corner of each
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        group's home page.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sorry, can't help you with the marine questions, perhaps you can join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        a marine aquarium group?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ~~Seti

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "jim"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <alls2@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > recently having joined this group and a few others ,, i have noticed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that a lot of folks evidently do the same ,, seems that some ,,mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > everything to everybody, and subsequently ,, i dont have time to feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > my 6 tanks of fish because i am busy reading a zillion e-mails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > totally unrelated to any subjects i may find of interest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2450 From: Seti Date: 6/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: fluval 404 canister filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nim, can you explain more on the carbon and plants. I have a Penguin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        BioWheel filter, and it has carbon in the cartridges; being that I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        just planted the tank, should I take out the cartridges? Will carbon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        harm the plants?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ~~Seti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <nimmat4@y...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Besides, if you keep live plants, activated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > carbon will be of little use and more damage :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2451 From: Patrick Date: 6/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: message activities of this group -> ugf's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Under gravel filters were great 30 years ago.  Today, they are either loved or hated, depending on who you talk to.  Even if you use them, it is a good idea to use a power or cannister filter.  I don't know anything about marine tanks, it would be a good idea to join a saltwater aquarium group.  I do know that marine tanks aren't something to jump into just to "find Nemo". :-)  I would like to have a saltwater tank, but it is just way too expensive for me. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2452 From: freedombell2002 Date: 6/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: back on message 1477 subject Free Starter Kits for Teachers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          hello all

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The messages was a link, for teachers to sign up for a free beta kit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Here is the link http://www.hbhnet.com I signed up back in late may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and kind of just placed in the back of my head. I'm a homeschooler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and thought I would get it a try. Well it came today!! I was a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          surprized to say the least. I got a glass beta bowl, food, water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          contioner, alittle plant and some plastic bobbles. Also a areally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cool t-shirt with a great graphic of a beta on the back. And get this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a check for 3$ to go towards a beta. The link is still there if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          know anyone who is a teacher or homeschool and would like to give
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          this a try. My son is happy and I quess will be shopping for a beta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          soon :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2453 From: freedombell2002 Date: 6/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: back on message 1477 subject Free Starter Kits for Teachers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sorry it was in march when I signed up not may :) march 25th

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hello all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The messages was a link, for teachers to sign up for a free beta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          kit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Here is the link http://www.hbhnet.com I signed up back in late may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and kind of just placed in the back of my head. I'm a homeschooler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and thought I would get it a try. Well it came today!! I was a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > surprized to say the least. I got a glass beta bowl, food, water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > contioner, alittle plant and some plastic bobbles. Also a areally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > cool t-shirt with a great graphic of a beta on the back. And get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > a check for 3$ to go towards a beta. The link is still there if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > know anyone who is a teacher or homeschool and would like to give
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > this a try. My son is happy and I quess will be shopping for a beta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > soon :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2454 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Remodelling fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Our cory catfish have lately taken to gleefully uprooting any and all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          plants we put in, and digging around in the gravel and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          underlayers...is this an indication that we need more tank fru-fru?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The plants are continually bobbing around the surface (and these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          aren't all small plants, either!) or kind of floating around shedding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          underlayer material...vermiculite is floating around on top of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water, and the cories have definately let me know they don't like my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          taste in land sculpting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2456 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: maximizing water quality through water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well I finally found a source for some South American Leaf fish, Monocirrhus polyacanthus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The only problem is that I can't add them to the tank gradually because I am getting a special order from my LFS.   So now I have decided in order to maximize the survivability of these fish ( I had 50% death rate on the last batch)  I need to maximize the water quality for a while until they stress down and settle in.  The tank is quite heavily planted so I have that covered. It also has a wet-dry filter which is good for biological filtration.  I am not so worried about mechanical filtration because I am supplying R/O water anyway, but I have an eheim canister filter on there.  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So my plan was to basically do daily water changes on the fish tank in order to make alleviate amonia or other spikes and keep doing this for some time until  the fish have recovered from transport stress etc. and will be more able to resist toxicity should it arise.   Then I will slowly reduce the size of these water changes. I will also keep feeding to a minimum for a while in order to keep waster to a minimum also.  The tank in question is a 90 gallon tank and it currently houses 2 leaf fish, 3 smallish spotted pike charicins, a ghost knife and 2 clown loaches.  I am thinking I can probably handle up to 10 additional leaf fish as they tend to be 2 inches or less.  Maybe I am shooting to high though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The real question is "What is the maximum daily water change I should do that would not exesively deplete my bacteria supply yet mimize toxicity from the new fish...  I am also considering adding some fast growing plants to reduce toxicity.  I read here that some floating plants are good for this...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So I am looking for a daily water change %tage AND suggestion on toxicity sponge floating plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanx in advance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2457 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: aqurium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Is this a test? But, but, but...I didn't study!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Along this line, though...what's with aquarium salts for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tanks...are you supposed to add a bit of salt to a freshwater tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Or only when you have stressed or breeding fish of a certain type.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > identify a fresh water aqurium from a salt and brackish water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          aqurium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > david clarke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2458 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: aqurium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the difference between the three is just the amount of salt in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          we've had a lot of back and forth on the salt issue, but it's pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          much personal preference. some people (such as myself) feel 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tablespoon per 5 gallons benefits their fish, and some prefer no salt,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          less, or slightly more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jun 11, 2004, at 7:45 PM, cynthia brennemann wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Is this a test?  But, but, but...I didn't study!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Along this line, though...what's with aquarium salts for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tanks...are you supposed to add a bit of salt to a freshwater tank? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Or only when you have stressed or breeding fish of a certain type.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >  identify a fresh water aqurium from a salt and brackish water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > aqurium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > bye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > david clarke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bored? fear not! hit up
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you know you want to....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2459 From: Patrick, the AmericanFishGuy Date: 6/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: aqurium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Freshwater = almost no salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Brackish = salt, halfway to full marine salt levels, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          just regular aquarium-grade salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Salt = full marine level of salt, not ust regular salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          because the tank must have certain levels of minerals
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          not normally present in regular salt (NaCl)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Nemo can't survive in Freshwater or Brackish water, but can in Marine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water. A tetra can't survive in Brackish or Marine water. A
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          swordtail can survive in Fresh and slight Brackish water. A molly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          can survive in Freshwater, Brackish water, and Marine water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, david clarke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <dvdclarke@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > identify a fresh water aqurium from a salt and brackish water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          aqurium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > david clarke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > davidclarke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2465 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 6/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: fish food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tetra makes some good quality fish food for your fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Dorothy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          dvdclarke <dvdclarke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          hi what type of food is best for fishes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          david clarke




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2466 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: message activities of this group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Jim,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The delete key is your friend. Any message you do not have an interest in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          reading, delete. Very easy, very simple, and, as opposed to the digest idea,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you do not get one or two very long e-mails each day with everything in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Quick answers:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. No. Filtration will depend upon they type of marine tank you set up and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          is much more critical for a marine tank than a freshwater tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. Depends. As in the answer above, it depend on the type of tank you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          creating. In some instances, they will be a god send, in others, you will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have the devil to pay. In still others it is neither here nor there. In a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          display tank, without live plants, and without fish that rummage through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          substrate, they may be the way to go.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3. Yes, but it is not really worth it. By they time you clean it and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          reactivate it, it would have been cheaper to get fresh. Also, it is less
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          effective when reactivated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4. No help here. I've stayed away from the marine end of the hobby for two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          reasons. One, cost--which can be overcome if I was motivated enough. Two,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          time--which is really the reason. I simply do not have the time to make a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          good go with a marine tank. Despite the articles you may see written about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          how easy it is to care for a marine tank now-a-days, it still takes more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          time to care for a marine tank than a freshwater tank. Having said that, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          is my understanding that clown fish are relatively easy to care for and will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          do well if their requirements are met. While I don't think you would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          successful in breeding them, most available clown fish are commercially bred
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          5. Khuli loaches are easy to care for, and relatively undemanding fish. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          will have a tendency to disappear from the tank. They are still there, just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          masters at hiding. They have bred in home aquaria, most reports are rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          non-specific as to the requirements as most seem to be happy discoveries
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          after the fact, sometimes well after the fact. I also recall seeing some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          reports about the use of hormones to get them to breed as well. This would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          be beyond the scope of the average hobbyist.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: jim [mailto:alls2@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 2:20 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] message activities of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          group


                                                                                                                                                                                                                          recently having joined this group and a few others ,, i have noticed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that a lot of folks evidently do the same ,, seems that some ,,mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          everything to everybody, and subsequently ,, i dont have time to feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my 6 tanks of fish because i am busy reading a zillion e-mails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          totally unrelated to any subjects i may find of interest, but i do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have some questions for the others ,,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1,,a fluval 404 canister filter & 55 gal tank was given to our
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          church ,, is this enough filter for marine tank ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2,,everywhere i seem to look ,, folks are poo-pooing use of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          undergravel filters ,, are they passe?,, they used to work so well!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3,,activated carbon ,, i know it deactivates with time ,, can it be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          reactivated ?? how ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4,, any tips on setting up 55 gal marine tank (church)from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          scratch ,,, conensus is folks want " the NEMO fish " any success
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stories / spawning requirements ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          5,, any info , whatsoever regarding "khuli loaches"(home)spawning,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          wild environment,water quality issues. etc ,, anything at all





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2467 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: message activities of this group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 6/9/2004 2:59:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, alls2@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3,,activated carbon ,, i know it deactivates with time ,, can it be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          reactivated ??  how ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4,, any tips on setting up 55 gal marine tank (church)from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          scratch ,,, conensus is folks want " the NEMO fish " any success
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stories / spawning requirements ??


                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The carbon can not be "reactivated" ... you just have to take out the old carbon and put new in. If you are using those jugs of carbon you just refill your filter media ... but most filter setups that I know of do sell cartridges that have all you need in them. It's a matter of personal choice whether you choose to use those or to buy the bits separately and wash/reuse the bags.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The "Nemo fish" is an Ocellaris Clownfish (according to my ever-handy and very dog-eared fishy catalogue). They are expensive! This catalogue has them for $11.99 (US dollars) EACH ... says they get to a max size of 4 inches, and recommended tank size is 50 gallons. I don't have a marine tank, but from what I'm hearing, marine tanks are hard to keep up. There are lots of water conditions in a marine tank that you don't have to worry about in a freshwater tank. Good luck in your search for more information, and I'm sorry I couldn't be more help!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Small question ... just how many fish-related email groups are you in? I'm only in this one, and it sends out less messages than any other email groups I'm in. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2468 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: activated carbon and live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 6/9/2004 3:53:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, nimmat4@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Besides, if you keep live plants, activated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          carbon will be of little use and more damage :)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I stand corrected on re-activating carbon ... *grin*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I just started adding live plants to my tank ... I've got five bulbs of Aponogeton (the label said "hybrid" ... they look like Crispus to me but I'm not an expert on plants!) that are starting to grow. Every now and then the fish nibble one of the leaves off, but the plants don't seem to be suffering too awful much. *grin* What's this about activated carbon being harmful to the plants??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2469 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: aqurium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 6/11/2004 4:42:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, dvdclarke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          identify a fresh water aqurium from a salt and brackish water aqurium


                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm assuming this was a question? A fresh water aquarium has either none or very little salt in it. (some people put 1 tablespoon aquarium salt per gallon of water in their freshwater aquariums ... some do not.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Marine (or salt water) has high salt content. The idea is to have the aquarium water be as close to ocean water as possible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Brackish has a little more than a freshwater, and less than marine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2470 From: freedombell2002 Date: 6/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: OT \ been a freshwater lover now I have a reef
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          hello all

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          about 8 weeks ago my hubby wanted to get a new tank, we already have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a 40, a 10 and a 5 all freshwater well............
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          he made it a reef I wanted nothing to do with it I love fresh and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          will also love fresh. But I have to tell this reef tank has been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          pretty exciting. I found a Saltwater group and this what I said to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          them ...... Well its been just about 8+ weeks now that w set up our
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          30 gallon reef tank. We doing great so I thought I would take a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          pic to show you mostly,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the Live Rock. There is about 25 lbs of Live Rock, 10?lbs of live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sand, 1/2 dozen snails, 1/2 dozen of crabs, 2 blue chromis fish and 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sandsifter goby. We added a nice pice of rock with star polpys about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4 weeks ago (so far so good) I think they are multiplying, I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          seen some new ones down on the side that weren't there before. About
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 week ago we added a condylactus anemone. Not sure how I ( we) feel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          about the anemone it moves around to much and sucks in and look
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          funny. Not sure were keeping it. The hitchhikers are, 1 serpent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          starfish (growing) a urchin (looks purple) pretty small but growing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Was told to keep a eye on it because not friendly with the reef.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A inch long Nudibranch (sea slug) and just saw a tiny, tiny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nudibranch a couple nights ago, same shape, same colors. O yes I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          furgot a pepperment shimp. He has already molted twice so I hope that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a good sign that he doing good. Of corse all this stuff was add over
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the corse of 8+ weeks. Many Many things on my Live Rock still need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          to id.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Also the common caulerpa was attched to the polpy rock, the caulerpa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          is wild growning so fast, it gets a grooming every week. When we got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          it had about 6 leaves on it 3 days later it have 13 leaves and has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          continued like this. My hubby is not fond of it, but I like it and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          told him I will keeping clipping it so it does get out of control.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Just did a major Clipping right after these pics. Has lots of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          runners.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Going to be adding a snail and crab package very soon. really needs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          it bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have post some pics under Sherrie's also with a few pics of my 40
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          gal freshwater

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          wish those fish would hold still LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2471 From: Patrick Date: 6/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: aquarium cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just a 25% water change every week and wash filters out in the removed water monthly (don't replace them unless you have to). 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: 06/12/04 00:09:59
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] aquarium cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hi when is the best time to clean out an aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            david clarke




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2472 From: Patrick Date: 6/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  No difference between aquarium salt and kosher, pickling, and rock salt...except the rediculusly high price of aquarium salt compared to the other three choices.  Table salt is iodized, which may or may not be deadly to fish, depending on who is asked.  I think Sea Salt is another option, but is more expensive that pickling salt.  I only use Morton Pickling Salt in my tanks (freshwater). 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Marine salt is different because it is made for marine tanks.  I know nothing else about it, so maybe someone else can describe it for you.  A brackish water tank is not just water with salt added.  It has to be a mixture of certain minerals similar to a full marine aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              how aquarium grade salt differs from table ,rock,marine salts and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              which is best for a salt and brackish water aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              david clarke
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2473 From: Peggy Date: 6/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: aqurium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              brackishwater is water which contains more sea salts than freshwater but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              less than the open sea.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message: 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: david clarke <dvdclarke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: aqurium



                                                                                                                                                                                                                              identify a fresh water aqurium from a salt and brackish water aqurium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bye

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              david clarke









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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2474 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: salt in freshwater tanks (was Re: aqurium)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/11/2004 8:15:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what's with aquarium salts for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tanks...are you supposed to add a bit of salt to a freshwater tank? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Or only when you have stressed or breeding fish of a certain type.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Many sources recommend adding 1 tablespoon aquarium salt per gallon to a freshwater tank ... it's supposed to improve their gill function and kidney function. In mollies, which are very prone to fungal infections, it helps prevent that. (A tank of mollies can very easily be decimated by fungus! I've been there, done that.) However, mollies need a little more salt than the recommended 1 tbsp. per US gallon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Some people do not agree with the use of aquarium salt in a freshwater tank. Many freshwater aquarists can get along perfectly fine without adding any salt ... many (such as myself) lose less fish and have a healthier aquarium environment due to the use of aquarium salt.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It all depends on the hobbiest's personal preference, and on the types of fish that you keep. In my 15 gallon mollie/platy tank, I add salt. In my daughter's 2 gallon beta tank, there is no salt added.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Salt baths are a recommended treatment for many fish diseases, but that is different than just always keeping salt in the tank. The salt bath measurements I finally found is 2 ounces of salt per 1.5 US gallons, for ONLY 30 minutes. (the original source was 10 grams per 1/4 gallon, I had to do a lot of math work and ask my mother to break out her scale to figure out measurements I could use.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2475 From: Jonathan Short Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: what are they???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello again all.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I know this probably isn't the best place to ask bt if anyone has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              any contacts they cold direct me to that would be great.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I keep cold, tropical and marine fish. In my MARINE tank there's all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              these weird little white things crawling on my glass and rock!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What could they be? Are they harmful to the fish? I know a fair bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              on marine but never read anything like this, any help please?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              anyone?....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2476 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: aquarium lighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/12/2004 1:09:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdclarke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what type of lighting is the best for a fresh,brackish and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water aquariums


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Depends on whether you have live plants in your tank or not, and if you do have live plants, different types of plants require different lighting levels. I've just got a standard hood lamp on mine, because my live plants require low to moderate lighting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2477 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: fish food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/12/2004 1:09:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdclarke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hi what type of food is best for fishes


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Different fish have different nutritional needs. Also if you are breeding them they need different nutrients. I'm feeling like this is a pop quiz now. *grin*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2478 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: aquarium cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/12/2004 1:13:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdclarke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hi when is the best time to clean out an aquarium


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Probably depends on the type of fish, and how many you have in there. I've got 8 fish in my 15 gallon, three of which are fry, (I just got rid of almost ALL of my mollie fry) and I do once a week partial water changes. Every two to three weeks, depending on how the glass looks, I use an "algae scrubber" to clean off the front and two sides. I leave the back glass alone, because my fish are all omnivores and like to eat the algae. I changed my filter cartridges once a week when I had all of the fish in there, because I had to ... but I'll see how long my cartridge lasts now that I've got a lot less fish in there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Obviously, if you test your water quality and your ammonia levels are fine, you might not find it necessary to change the water that often. Up until a few days ago, I was a bit overstocked, so I got used to changing the water and filter cartridges once a week.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The important thing is keeping an eye on your water quality ... checking your nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, etc. If something starts getting bad, you should change some of the water out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2479 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: aeators
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/12/2004 1:16:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, dvdclarke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what does the aerator do and which is the best one for any aquarium


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It puts air into the tank with bubbles. This causes a slight current as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Which is the best one depends on what size of aquarium you have, what types of fish you have or plan on having. (Some fish don't like a lot of current, some like a lot more) Some are quieter than others, but if you don't mind a faint hum or buzzing noise (depending on what you have the pump sitting on) than the one that is marked for your size aquarium, whichever you can afford easiest, will be just fine. I got mine from Walmart, and it works fine for me. It has two outlets. One outlet is connected with an airline to a "bubble wand" for my 15 gallon (tall) tank ... and the other is connected with an airline and a valve to a silly bubbling treasure chest for my daughter's 2 gallon betta tank. (The valve regulates the air flow, so that the poor betta doesn't get knocked around by great big bubbles. He doesn't really need the bubbles, since he has a labyrinth organ and can breathe at the surface, but my daughter is only 5 and it's HER tank.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2480 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/12/2004 10:09:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, americanfishguy@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              No difference between aquarium salt and kosher, pickling, and rock salt...except the rediculusly high price of aquarium salt compared to the other three choices


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Don't know where you are getting your aquarium salt, but where I get mine, it's not all that expensive. I only get a 16 ounce carton of it, and that lasts me several months. It only costs a couple of bucks. I just prefer not to take the chance with substituting non-aquarium stuff in my aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2481 From: Patrick Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Compare price to quantity.   1 pound of aquarium salt for $1.50, 4 pounds of pickling salt for $1.00, now that is what I call a ridiculously high price. :-)  I don't think we should buy it because it encourages them to keep selling NaCl and making people think it is a medicine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2482 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: salt in freshwater tanks (was Re: aqurium)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                actually, it's usually one tablespoon per 5 gallons as the regular
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                additive level, one that is safe for ALL fish...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                On Jun 13, 2004, at 10:55 AM, Witchywmn42@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > In a message dated 6/11/2004 8:15:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > brennewoman@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > what's with aquarium salts for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tanks...are you supposed to add a bit of salt to a freshwater tank? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Or only when you have stressed or breeding fish of a certain type.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Many sources recommend adding 1 tablespoon aquarium salt per gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to a freshwater tank ... it's supposed to improve their gill function
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and kidney function. In mollies, which are very prone to fungal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > infections, it helps prevent that. (A tank of mollies can very easily
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > be decimated by fungus! I've been there, done that.) However, mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > need a little more salt than the recommended 1 tbsp. per US gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Some people do not agree with the use of aquarium salt in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > freshwater tank. Many freshwater aquarists can get along perfectly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fine without adding any salt ... many (such as myself) lose less fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and have a healthier aquarium environment due to the use of aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > It all depends on the hobbiest's personal preference, and on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > types of fish that you keep. In my 15 gallon mollie/platy tank, I add
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > salt. In my daughter's 2 gallon beta tank, there is no salt added.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Salt baths are a recommended treatment for many fish diseases, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > that is different than just always keeping salt in the tank. The salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > bath measurements I finally found is 2 ounces of salt per 1.5 US
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gallons, for ONLY 30 minutes. (the original source was 10 grams per
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 1/4 gallon, I had to do a lot of math work and ask my mother to break
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > out her scale to figure out measurements I could use.)
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2483 From: Grissom's Fan Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: New to the group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi everyone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I just joined and would like to introduce myself. I just recently was given 2 ten gallon tanks and a 55 gallon tank. I am going to go with a saltwater tank and I was just wondering how to set it up and what fish I should start with. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thank you,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Cherry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Spock...the very first computer geek!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2484 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New to the group

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Welcome to the group Cherry, Sorry I cannot help you with the saltwater tank in any way as it is not my cup of tea J

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nice fints though J

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Grissom's Fan [mailto:csicherry@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 13 June 2004 18:31
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New to the group

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I just joined and would like to introduce myself. I just recently was given 2 ten gallon tanks and a 55 gallon tank. I am going to go with a saltwater tank and I was just wondering how to set it up and what fish I should start with. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thank you,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Cherry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Spock...the very first computer geek!



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2485 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Two new tanks to setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My wife just won an 18 gallon tank at an auction, it is the 18 tall glass with the 10 gallon footprint.  She wants to set it up for plants.  Since she is starting from scratch what should we use for substrate? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I am going to start a 55 gallon planted tank real soon and I need to know as well how to go about setting up the substrate. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Is peat moss something we may need?  I think it would go in first before other layers.  Is the common peat moss found in gardening supply stores appropriate?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't think it will cost too much to start the 18 gallon tank, but it would be nice if I did not go broke setting up the substrate in the 55 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2486 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: ? on my platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Some of my platies the past few days, have been staying on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bottem of my tank. Does anyone know why and what is causing it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2487 From: Patrick Date: 6/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ? on my platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Have you tested ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates?  Temperature above 74°? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Some of my platies the past few days, have been staying on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bottem of my tank. Does anyone know why and what is causing it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2488 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 6/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Two new tanks to setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hello!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm assuming you won't be spending big bucks yet on setting up these planted tanks. Before the substrate, your first and most important purchase should be a good aquarium light, something that will provide around 2.5-3 watts per gallon (4watts, if you'll be growing difficult plants later when you've already gained experience and confidence in your aquarist skills). The light should be evenly distributed over the surface of the. If you're a DIY person, building a hood which can accomodate compact fluorescents would be acceptable. These bulbs give a more even distribution of light at a lower cost than fluoresent tubes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As for the substrate, it depends on what plants you intend to grow. For most purposes, sand is adequate and fine gravel barely ok. I myself use old garden soil. I wash it several times to remove any organic material, particles too fine to easily settle, and any unwanted chemicals soaked into it. The resulting soil should be almost silty, sinking quickly after any disturbance and not leaving much of a dust cloud in the water. You can also bake the soil in the oven or enclosed in a clear plastic bag and fully exposed to the sun afterwards, if you prefer, to kill any unwanted organisms.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Many swear by laterite, a tropical clay rich in iron. Clay, however is very fine soil and once disturbed, tends to create a lingering cloud that soon blankets everything in the tank. You might want to add it later on as clay balls pushed down aroun the rots of the heavy nutrient feeders rather than as a layer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've followed recommendations before on using just an inch-thick layer of soil covered with 2-3 inches of sand or fine gravel (2mm diameter tops). However, when this layered substrate gets disturbed (by you or the fish), chances are they'll get mixed up. Given enough time, the soil ought to sink to the bottom, with the gravel "floating" on top of it. If your soil is not too fine and sinks and clears from the water quickly, you can omit the gravel layer and use 2-3 inches of pure soil. I've discovered that aquarium plants grow best in it. Be warned though that any transplanting or removal of established plants, especially large plants, results in a mess. If you'll be keeping small algae grazers like otocinclus or shrimps, it would be a help in clearing the soil off the plants should you do need to uproot anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you don't or doubt you have the desirable kind of soil (don't use new garden soil! It has a large amount of organic material) you can buy any of the planted aquarium substrates being sold. Decayed peat is useful, as it sinks readily, is the aquarium version of garden mulch, and acidifies water but peat moss is not suitable, especially fresh peat moss.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  By the way, your choice of substrate will also affect what kind of filtration system you can install. A soil substrate eliminates an undergravel filter from among your choices but would be OK with either sand or gravel, as long as the pump is not too strong. An aerator is not good for a planted tank: it drives out dissolved CO2 necessary for photosynthesis. You can opt for a canister-type, hang-on dam-type or overhead box filter. I discourage the use of internal filters as they take up space that should be for your plants and require camouflage to hide them from view.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Best of  luck and have a good time setting up your tank. :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Rod
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My wife just won an 18 gallon tank at an auction, it is the 18 tall glass with the 10 gallon footprint.  She wants to set it up for plants.  Since she is starting from scratch what should we use for substrate? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am going to start a 55 gallon planted tank real soon and I need to know as well how to go about setting up the substrate. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is peat moss something we may need?  I think it would go in first before other layers.  Is the common peat moss found in gardening supply stores appropriate?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't think it will cost too much to start the 18 gallon tank, but it would be nice if I did not go broke setting up the substrate in the 55 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mike


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2489 From: Jonathan Short Date: 6/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: salt in freshwater tanks (was Re: aqurium)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It's one table spoon per dip.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You're supposed to dip fish (if medical problems arise) in saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for a few minutes, then put them back, as for just giving them good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  health I was in theunderstanding not to do it at all unless there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  were medical problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > actually, it's usually one tablespoon per 5 gallons as the regular
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > additive level, one that is safe for ALL fish...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > On Jun 13, 2004, at 10:55 AM, Witchywmn42@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > In a message dated 6/11/2004 8:15:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > brennewoman@h... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > what's with aquarium salts for freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > tanks...are you supposed to add a bit of salt to a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tank? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Or only when you have stressed or breeding fish of a certain
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  type.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Many sources recommend adding 1 tablespoon aquarium salt per
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > to a freshwater tank ... it's supposed to improve their gill
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  function
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > and kidney function. In mollies, which are very prone to fungal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > infections, it helps prevent that. (A tank of mollies can very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  easily
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > be decimated by fungus! I've been there, done that.) However,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > need a little more salt than the recommended 1 tbsp. per US
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Some people do not agree with the use of aquarium salt in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > freshwater tank. Many freshwater aquarists can get along
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  perfectly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > fine without adding any salt ... many (such as myself) lose less
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > and have a healthier aquarium environment due to the use of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > It all depends on the hobbiest's personal preference, and on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > types of fish that you keep. In my 15 gallon mollie/platy tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I add
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > salt. In my daughter's 2 gallon beta tank, there is no salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  added.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Salt baths are a recommended treatment for many fish diseases,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > that is different than just always keeping salt in the tank. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > bath measurements I finally found is 2 ounces of salt per 1.5 US
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > gallons, for ONLY 30 minutes. (the original source was 10 grams
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  per
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > 1/4 gallon, I had to do a lot of math work and ask my mother to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  break
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > out her scale to figure out measurements I could use.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2490 From: Patrick Date: 6/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: salt baths -> bad idea?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have never heard of dipping a fish in saltwater for any disease other than ich.  I would say it shouldn't be done.  The thing with ich is that is is caused when the fish is stressed.  Dipping it in salt will only stress it more.  I tried this treatment, killing 10/20 fish that had ich.  Saltwater dips are good for cleaning plants of snails.  Salt is not a medicine, so it can't do any good for treating a disease at high levels.  It does do good when there is a disease to put 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons to help the fish breath, etc.  I wouldn't put more than 1 teaspoon per gallon in a freshwater tank, though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am very interested in where this information about salt bathes for diseases came from, since my experience is 1:1 kill ratio on the fish put through the method (and this was with the 1 tbs/gal).  I know I read it on the Internet somewhere, but I have learned that anybody can have a web page.(including myself, I have to update it every time I learn some new theory or gain more experience that proves previous information to be wrong)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2491 From: Patrick Date: 6/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: aeators -> air stones
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Unless you have an air-powered filter, or want them as decorations, you don't need them at all.  They reall are only good for those two purposes. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2492 From: jim Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: e-mail expression
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      as a new member in this group , i'm reading back in histoical
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      messages and keep seeing " im damaged and i like it , it made me who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I am " in numerous postings , what the hell is that supposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mean , i've seen it in other groups/ postings too ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2493 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Iodine is not the problem with table salt, the anti-caking agent is.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's a blood thinner and with the gills loaded with blood vessels, you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      can see why that's not so great. I've had this discussion for many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      years with other managers, co-workers and fellow hobbiests. I did get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      some vindication several years ago when Tropical Fish Hobbiest magazine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      carried an article which mirrored my own opinion. Might have been in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      '99, I think. Maybe someone still has a copy from then?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2494 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: what are they???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This probably has already been addressed, but I'm throwing this out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      there anyhow. These worms are most likely a type of paramesium. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      probably are not parasitic, however, they will colonize across the glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and in your substrate. A strong copper or dye based ich medication,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      USED REPEATEDLY, would kill them. But at what cost? When I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fighting them, I lost many fish and eventually broke the tank down,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bleaching everything. One other thing, be careful of cross
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      contamination with the other tanks, using a good net wash. They can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      colonize in fresh water as I found out the hard way. Had to break that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank down too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2495 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What I find so humorous is the Aquarium Pharm box states it's from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      evapoated sea water. Doesn't nearly all salt come from prehistoric
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      dried ocean beds?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2496 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New to the group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Welcome aboard Cherry. I would recommend going to a site called
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About.com. I really don't get an mail from the saltwater newsletter,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      it's all pretty redundant for me now, but is very useful for a newbie.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      They have an article called Saltwater 101 and it covers just about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      everything you need to know to get started. You'll most likely find it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      before I do, but I'll look anyway. It's just that it would take a very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      long time to discuss all the basics here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2497 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Two new tanks to setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Deenerz, I'll send you a digest of a plant board I'm on. Look through
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the archives for substrate advice, it's pretty intense how serious some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of those folks are. I'm pretty sure peat moss is a bad idea, can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      remember why, besides the mess. Might be a pH issue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2498 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: ? on my platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Have you added any hyper fish that are surface dwellers? Any danios,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      stuff like that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2499 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Two new tanks to setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Good post Rod. I changed a tank over to Eco-Complete by Carib Sea.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's only been in there a few weeks, so it's too early for me to give it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a vote of confidence yet. I'll post when I see any new results.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2500 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: salt in freshwater tanks (was Re: aqurium)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Welcome to the discussion Johnny, missed a lot of posts I think. Might
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      want to go back a few weeks and see what everyone has to say about salt.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2501 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 6/15/2004 7:25:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bucks_boogie@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What I find so humorous is the Aquarium Pharm box states it's from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      evapoated sea water.  Doesn't nearly all salt come from prehistoric
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      dried ocean beds?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      nope,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I live near salt flats of San Francisco bay, they let water in to a large flat pond.  Wait for it to evaporate and then harvest the salt.  This is where one of the brine shrimps we used to get in the hobby were discovered. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2502 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: salt baths -> bad idea?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, I don't know how long you've been in the hobby, but us old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      timers, we were raised with out copper sulfate, methaline blue, victoria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      green, et al, much less antibiotics. All we had back in the day was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      salt for dips. Used properly, it changes the osmotic pressure in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish, causing the body to "flush" itself. Not fool proof, but somewhat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      effective. The last ten years or so, the advice calls for too long in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the salt water, IMHO. 3 minutes, tops.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2503 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: e-mail expression
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's just my signature Jim. Kind of a life model, don't cha know. BYW,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      welcome aboard.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2504 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Morton salt company runs gigantic salt mines in my area. These salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mines are as large as the coal mines in PA. I know that evaporated sea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      salt is common, but so is mined salt, which is, once again, is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      evaporated sea salt. My point being $1.79 a pound for aquarium salt is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      asinine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2505 From: maybe ill tell you when i know you Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: aqurium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a brackish water tank is less than 20% salt water. a saltwater tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      will have a specifix gravity of 1.020-1.026 generally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2506 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: e-mail expression
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      lol, that's called a "sig" (signature) most of us have them in one form
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      or another...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      On Jun 15, 2004, at 6:55 AM, jim wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > as a new member in this group , i'm reading back in histoical
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > messages and keep seeing  " im damaged and i like it , it made me who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I am " in numerous postings  , what the hell is that supposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > mean , i've seen it in other groups/ postings too  ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2507 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: from Brazil,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2508 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Pedragismo - A arte das pedras nos aquários
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2509 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: INTERZOO 2004 pics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      See the Interzoo 2004 Pics in Brazilian group,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      TKS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2510 From: Patrick Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: salt baths -> bad idea?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for your explanation.  I guess that is why the fish died.  I left them in for the 30 minutes.   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2511 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: e-mail expression
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that is part of her signature. the e-mail automatically puts it every time you make an e-mail or respond to one. just like mine. the bottom of this e-mail have my signature in it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I WILL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: jim [mailto:alls2@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 12:55 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] e-mail expression

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        as a new member in this group , i'm reading back in histoical
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        messages and keep seeing  " im damaged and i like it , it made me who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am " in numerous postings  , what the hell is that supposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mean , i've seen it in other groups/ postings too  ?



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2512 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Tanks doing well....so far....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well both tanks are up and running, with the surviving fish thriving,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and the new additions seeminly happy as clams (which are still on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        order...LOL). WE got rid of the Platies...gave them a good home with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        a teachers assistant, who gives their offspring out to kids in her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        class. Still have the guppies, but hopefully we can keep up with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        them...everyone is happy to take extra guppies. Each tank now has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        three ghost shrimp, with cherry fire shrimp on order.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The youngest has three cory catfish, three aquatic frogs (really cute
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        little varmints), five neon tetras (thanks to all you guys who told
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        me how to keep them alive), four guppies, three livebearers, and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        beta that looked like an advanced case of leprousy in the store, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        is really quite lovely in the tank. She got one of those java lace
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ferns, a musa banana plant, a bronze wentzii, and some hairgrass as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        well as some red stuff that I have no idea what it is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The eldest has five golden tetras, two albino cory catfish, and at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        least a dozen guppies, along with Methuselah, her four year old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        beta. She has dwarf mondo and regular mondo grass, a musa, java
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fern, a dwarf sword, a larger sword and some anacharis frill.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hopefully the plants will spread, and I can take clumps off them and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        transfer them to the other tanks for a more assorted tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Besides the cherry fire shrimp, the girls still want the glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        catfish, otoclinus catfish, and freshwater clams...not sure about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        those. They also want some algae balls...the algae that grows into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        spheres...they look neat, I must admit. The youngest child also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wants a female betta, so I am scrounging to see if I can find a free
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        aquarium. This is getting to be an expensive hobby! They both want
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        a dwarf puffer fish...and I've heard the figure eight dwarf isn't as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        nippy as the others...but I'm a little unsure about that. At least
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it should take care of the guppy overpopulation...no?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The cories, all of them, including the newbies...are still letting me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        know my interior design is lacking in style. They seem to delight in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        pushing stuff around. The new betta and the cories are fighting for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        squatting rights on the back corner of the fish tank, but other than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that, everything seems to be going well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2513 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: e-mail expression
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And, by God, I'm Damaged, and I like it, it made me what I am!!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Life throws injury at us, like 1981, when a cement truck hit my car and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          broke 11 bones, crushing my pelvis, but I survived, or the 2 bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          marriages, or the 50+ jobs, the last 4 in the pet industry, but it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          what's made me what I am. I am getting 4 new lamprolongus occelatus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          on Thursday, though. Great little shell dwellers from lake Tanganyika!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2514 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: e-mail expression
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And it's "What made me what I am"!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2515 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: e-mail expression
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sorry Ray, but, uh hem, I'm a dude, lol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2516 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Breve Estudo sobre o Aguapé
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2517 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Ninphoides aquatica / bananinha d'água.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2518 From: Shannon Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hello! My name is Shannon. I have a 50 gallon freshwater aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and in it I keep: 2 plecos(about 8"), 3 raspboras, 5 neons, 2 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          skirt tetras, 1 danio, 3 mollies, & 2 swordtails. The tank is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          moderately decorated and I am looking into adding live plants and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          few more fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2519 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: e-mail expression
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hey Dude !!, Don't know what you're sorry for but its good to hear from you. Have been reading your posts and your replies are right on the money. I guess you mean LOL on my becoming a new member of this group -- Thanks. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2520 From: paul helms Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amazon sword plants are a great addition. they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          one of the plant types that consume nitrates from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank. they reproduce in a neat way too. they not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          only split to form more plants, but can grow runners
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          with 5 or more new plants on them, or can flower and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          reproduce through pollen exchange.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- Shannon <sk_sunshine@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Hello! My name is Shannon. I have a 50 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > freshwater aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and in it I keep: 2 plecos(about 8"), 3 raspboras, 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > neons, 2 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > skirt tetras, 1 danio, 3 mollies, & 2 swordtails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The tank is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > moderately decorated and I am looking into adding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > live plants and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > few more fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2521 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Okay, since the new tanks are cycling through the new tank stage...I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have been taking water in to have it analyzed for proper levels and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          such. Yesterday I took it in and it was way too alkaline and high
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nitrate and ammonia levels...but believe it or not petsmart and every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          other place I tried only had PH UP stuff, and absolutely nothing for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nitrates...So, since we were dealing with stressed fish, and since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the advisor told me to get those levels down before things started
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          dying on me, I dropped back and punted. What do I cut ammonia with?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Vinegar...so...I put a couple of capfuls of vinegar in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Today I went back to have it checked again, and the levels are fine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Just thought you'd be interested.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2522 From: Patrick Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What?  I am just confused about what you were trying to say.  First of all, there are a lot of stores that tell you things are high or low to sell something.  Nitrates are lowered through water changes, ammonia is lowered through the nitrogen cycle (and temporarily through water changes), vinegar is good for lowering pH (I think).  I don't really understand everything you are saying, so will hold back telling you to find a real fish store, but when they start telling you that nitrates and ammonia are too high, I don't know.  Maybe you mean nitrites? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The only way to really know if levels are high, low, or ok is to buy your own test kits.  Some stores use test strips, but they aren't accurate because they are so easy to contaminate.  Liquid tests are more accurate (although not perfect).  If they used the strips, that may tell you why the readings changed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Why were the fish stressed?  High levels?  I bet the levels are all the same now as before, so the fish will only be more stressed after a longer time in them.  25% water change every other day.  Why use chemicals when just a simple water change will fix the problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just wondering. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Okay, since the new tanks are cycling through the new tank stage...I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            have been taking water in to have it analyzed for proper levels and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            such.  Yesterday I took it in and it was way too alkaline and high
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            nitrate and ammonia levels...but believe it or not petsmart and every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            other place I tried only had PH UP stuff, and absolutely nothing for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            nitrates...So, since we were dealing with stressed fish, and since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the advisor told me to get those levels down before things started
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            dying on me, I dropped back and punted.  What do I cut ammonia with? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Vinegar...so...I put a couple of capfuls of vinegar in the tank. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Today I went back to have it checked again, and the levels are fine. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just thought you'd be interested.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2523 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hello everyone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            today i was going to buy some really nice looking plants but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            they have like black moss looking stuff on them, my question is: is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that stuff bad and will it aid my tank in growing alge. also i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            some endlers coming in tommorow or friday i'll post pictures when i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            get them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2524 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It is a new tank going through a new tank syndrome, at least that's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            what I've been told. The vinegar seemed to work to lower the ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            inexpensively (tap water around here is right around 8-9 on the ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            scale, so water changed don't help), but also seemed to help out with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the rest of the stuff.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I would GLADLY find another fish store, if I could find one that was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            open. There is one other fish store I know of in the area (not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            willing to spend 40 dollars in gas to go to St. Louis for fish), but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it is closed every time I go there. Daytime, night time, weekdays,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            weekends...I never find it open. I have already expressed my dismay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            over the knowledge or lack thereof at Petsmart. I think there is one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            person who knows anything at all, and she is rude and overworked and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            never available.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2525 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Cynthia, While you're waiting for the tank to cycle naturally, use zeolite chips (such as Ammo-Chips; brand name) in your filter. This will remove any ammonia build up and is also rechargeable in non-iodized salt. I would think the vinegar may have dropped the pH somewhat. If you're looking for pH down and can't find it, you can use sodium biphosphate (a disolveable powder), but depending on the buffering capacity of your water, its possible it may bounce up again which would only stress the fish out more. You're better off using a MILD acid solution such as muriatic or hydrochloric acid which is found in a good hardware store, but drop the pH slowly to avoid fish stress. Also, by nitrates (the end product in the cycle), you probably mean nitrites which are much more harmful. Learn to test for yourself (with liquid kits); its not hard to do. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2526 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Without actually seeing these new live plants, its difficult to say, but if that "moss" growing on those plants is actually very dark green, its a type of algae. It will certainly "aid" your tank in growing algae as it will spread if this is what you want, but most algae's are to be avoided except in certain specialty tanks such as with Rift Lake Cichlids which like to graze on it. Then too, you do not want this algae growing on your plants as it is blocking out needed light for the plant, which will cause the plant's demise. If this is a type of algae, which it sounds like, it can usually be rubbed off the plant with your fingers, and with proper lighting control should not spread to become a nuisance. A little on your rocks is not always objectionable as it will help absorb ammonia, but watch your plants. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2527 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Or find yourself some true SAE’s that relish the stuff. They cleaned my tank up so quickly in 24 hours that I had to go and buy algae tabs to feed the buggers :-) Algae is not a problem with SAE’s around...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Tim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On 17/6/04 1:02 PM, "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Without actually seeing these new live plants, its difficult to say, but if that "moss" growing on those plants is actually very dark green, its a type of algae. It will certainly "aid" your tank in growing algae as it will spread if this is what you want, but most algae's are to be avoided except in certain specialty tanks such as with Rift Lake Cichlids which like to graze on it. Then too, you do not want this algae growing on your plants as it is blocking out needed light for the plant, which will cause the plant's demise. If this is a type of algae, which it sounds like, it can usually be rubbed off the plant with your fingers, and with proper lighting control should not spread to become a nuisance. A little on your rocks is not always objectionable as it will help absorb ammonia, but watch your plants. Ray

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2528 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cynthia,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As far as I know, Muriatic and Hydrochloric acids are not MILD. Sold in hardware stores, they're strong enough to dissolve mortar from brickwork, and if you have a dead fish you don't want to bury, you can watch it disappear in a solution of Muriatic acid. ( I think Muriatic is a dilute solution of Hydrochloric, which I remember from reading a label on a Muriatic-acid bottle. We used it to clean mortar smudges from masonry) You could pickle a fish in Vinegar, but I don't think you'd dissolve it. If you learn to safely handle the forms of hardware-store Hydrochloric-acid, one of the things you'd learn is you must mix it properly, wear acid-resistant gloves and eye protection, not to mention a respirator rated for hydrochloric-acid vapours, since it CAN and DOES cause VERY serious burns.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Using zeolite and ammo-chips adsorbs the ammonia your nitro related bacteria are supposed to consume, so theoretically and practically speaking, once the ammonia has dissappeared, and you remove the zeolite/ammochips/amquel/or whatever, you're right back where you started. I think it's best to start with a reasonable amount of fish, test for ammonia/PH/NITRITE, and keep your indesireable chemistries at bay by adjusting PH and water changes. In EXTREME conditions, the physical ammonia adsorbers would help, but it's not the way it is in nature in the long-run of learning about how to keep your water optimized.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2529 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: pond plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hey, does anyone in the group know of a creeping pond perennial that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              will grow both in the water and on rocks? i'm looking for something to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cover up rough edges on a koi pond. the plant should be hardy enough
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              for NY weather...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2530 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sorry to have to ask, what's a sae? like sucker fish or snails or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              something, my tank is still cycling 21st day today i don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              add to many things. I know this is bad but tommorow i some endlers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              coming in and i'm gonna take out my 4 danios and put them in a 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon tank i just set up and put the endlers in the 10 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they are little so i figure with frequent water changes, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fact that the 10 will be about the same size as all 4 danios it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              won't be much different. and hopefully they'll do ok. i also have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              large live plant and several little ones (like 15) i have pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              under melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Or find yourself some true SAE¹s that relish the stuff. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cleaned my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > up so quickly in 24 hours that I had to go and buy algae tabs to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              feed the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > buggers :-) Algae is not a problem with SAE¹s around...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2531 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cynthia, It is intended to dilute the muriatic acid first, before using it (thus rendering it mild) and even then, use the dilution sparingly. you would never want to use it straight out of the bottle! It should be understood, just by the NAME, that any of these acids are to be used with care, that goes without saying. Also, as I said in my first sentence, the zeolite is to be used to absorb the ammonia while you are waiting for the natural cycle to take effect; and then, why would you want to remove it except to recharge it. If you did remove it after the nitrifying bacteria get established , nothing drastic should happen as that is the purpose of having the tank cycle with these microbes; to "eat" the ammonia. Although not necessary, the reason why you might want to keep the zeolite going in your filter is to act as a backup in case you medicate your fish someday without thinking ahead with a substance that may kill off the benificial bacteria, and that can happen. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2532 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              well i don't have any pictures since i left them at the store (just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              incase it would cover my tank in alge. it could be dark green it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              kinda fuzzy waving in the water. yeah i definatley don't want alge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but wanted some live plants for my new 20 gallon. i think they cost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to much to buy them and try and rub it off, because if it doesn't i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              don't want to put it in my tank than what do i do with it. =:O)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks for the help


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Without actually seeing these new live plants, its difficult to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              say, but if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that "moss" growing on those plants is actually very dark green,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              its a type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > algae. It will certainly "aid" your tank in growing algae as it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              will spread if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > this is what you want, but most algae's are to be avoided except
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              in certain
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > specialty tanks such as with Rift Lake Cichlids which like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              graze on it. Then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > too, you do not want this algae growing on your plants as it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              blocking out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > needed light for the plant, which will cause the plant's demise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If this is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > type of algae, which it sounds like, it can usually be rubbed off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the plant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > with your fingers, and with proper lighting control should not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              spread to become
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > a nuisance. A little on your rocks is not always objectionable as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it will help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > absorb ammonia, but watch your plants. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2533 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pond plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As for hardy creeping pond perennials, there are a number of plants you can use for this purpose. None of course, will root right onto rockwork, but some will "creep" over the rocks and others will "fall" onto the rocks. Try Water Forget-Me-Not, Marsh Marigold, BogBean, Creeping Jenny, Water Cress, Monkey Flower, Water Spearmint or Variagated Water Celery. All are bog (or marginal) plants which grow in small containers of soil at 3" to 6" below the surface of the water near the perimeter of the pond, and will spread out over the rocks in one fashion or another. Any water garden shop should know these names, but I'll give you their Latin names if you think you really need them. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2534 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pond plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              great! thanks for the list! i got some water celery and parrot's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              feather already, so i'm starting with those, but i'll look in local
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              shops for the others you mentioned..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              On Jun 17, 2004, at 1:41 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > As for hardy creeping pond perennials, there are a number of plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > you can use for this purpose. None of course, will root right onto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > rockwork, but some will "creep" over the rocks and others will "fall"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > onto the rocks. Try Water Forget-Me-Not, Marsh Marigold, BogBean,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Creeping Jenny, Water Cress, Monkey Flower, Water Spearmint or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Variagated Water Celery. All are bog (or marginal) plants which grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > in small containers of soil at 3" to 6" below the surface of the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > near the perimeter of the pond, and will spread out over the rocks in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > one fashion or another. Any water garden shop should know these names,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but I'll give you their Latin names if you think you really need them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2535 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Many types of catfish and true algae eaters will take care of your blanket algae problem on plants. do not buy the common "algae eater" as it does not live up to its name. Try any of the smaller Loricariidae, with sucker mouths, such as Ansistrus cirrhosus, Farlowella acus, Loricaria lanceolata, L. microlepidogaster L. parva, Otocinclus affinis, O. flexilis, O. maculicauda, O. maculipinnis, O. nigricauda, O. vittatus, Plecostomus rachowi, Stoneiella leopardus or Xenocara dolichoptera, none of which grow more than 5 1/2", some just 2". Don't let the names scare you; any good aquarium shop should know these fish. Watch that you don't get another type of Plecostomus; some can get quite large, like 16" or so. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2536 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Live plants An SAE is a Siamese Algae Eater, they look like a flying fox (which doesn’t eat algae!) but there are a few distinct differences you can use to tell them apart.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/sae.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.fishpondinfo.com/sae.htm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are about 5 species that look similar, but only 1 is a ‘true’ SAE.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Tim



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              On 17/6/04 2:18 PM, "iloveguppies" <CK147@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sorry to have to ask, what's a sae? like sucker fish or snails or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              something, my tank is still cycling 21st day today i don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              add to many things. I know this is bad but tommorow i some endlers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              coming in and i'm gonna take out my 4 danios and put them in a 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon tank i just set up and put the endlers in the 10 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they are little so i figure with frequent water changes, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fact that the 10 will be about the same size as all 4 danios it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              won't be much different. and hopefully they'll do ok. i also have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              large live plant and several little ones (like 15) i have pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              under melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Or find yourself some true SAE’s that relish the stuff. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cleaned my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > up so quickly in 24 hours that I had to go and buy algae tabs to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              feed the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > buggers :-) Algae is not a problem with SAE’s around...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tim




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2537 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Congrats on the Endler's, I currently have 40-50 of them (I breed them).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Very difficult fish to photograph though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              One of the few good pics I've taken of them:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/detail?.dir=/1632&.dnm=d467.jpg


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              also i have some endlers coming in tommorow or friday i'll post pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              when i get them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2538 From: freedombell2002 Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Theresa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I was looking thur you photos, I think its the 7th pic the beta named
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tempo? Its he really as green as he looks in pic? Also Randy the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              crowntail is very pretty also. Thanks for sharing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Dan &
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Theresa" <dtmergl@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Congrats on the Endler's, I currently have 40-50 of them (I breed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              them).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Very difficult fish to photograph though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > One of the few good pics I've taken of them:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/detail?.dir=/1632&.dnm=d467.j
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@H...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > also i have some endlers coming in tommorow or friday i'll post
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > when i get them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2539 From: Patrick Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just misread your message.  I know what you mean about having a lack of fish stores.  I have one within 30 minutes (about 30 miles away).  They have good fish, but their supplies look pretty old.  I have to get supplies at my lwm (local w-mart) or through the mail.  I live in Tennessee, hours away from cities. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I wonder if the vinegar really did have an effect on the levels, and how it did it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2540 From: Patrick Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If zeolite removes ammonia completely, the cycle will not be started.  If it allows the cycle to complete, it must not remove much ammonia, so is worthless.  Water changes remove the ammonia while leaving enough to start the cycle, and they also remove nitrite and nitrate when those steps in the cycle start.  I don't know if I would want to take a chance using stronger acids to lower pH, even if it was above 8 (most fish will survive in a pH of 8, which isn't really that far from neutral).  And you should always think way ahead before using any type of medicine strong enough to kill off the good bacteria in the tank.  Overuse of antibiotics in aquariums is as bad as overuse in humans, it can lead to super bacteria that can't be killed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Cynthia, It is intended to dilute the muriatic acid first, before using it (thus rendering it mild) and even then, use the dilution sparingly. you would never want to use it straight out of the bottle! It should be understood, just by the NAME, that any of these acids are to be used with care, that goes without saying. Also, as I said in my first sentence, the zeolite is to be used to absorb the ammonia while you are waiting for the natural cycle to take effect; and then, why would you want to remove it except to recharge it. If you did remove it after the nitrifying bacteria get established , nothing drastic should happen as that is the purpose of having the tank cycle with these microbes; to "eat" the ammonia. Although not necessary, the reason why you might want to keep the zeolite going in your filter is to act as a backup in case you medicate your fish someday without thinking ahead with a substance that may kill off the benificial bacteria, and that can happen. Ray
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2541 From: Patrick Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Would a short dip in mild bleach water or peroxide, and then in salt water not remove any algae on the plant? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2542 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But I've been told, and correct me if the info is wrong, that you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    not supposed to do water changed during this cycle...you have to wait
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    until the cycle finishes and stabilizes before doing any water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    changes and filter changes...so that eliminates the water change to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    help with the nitrites...And water changes would not help with the ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    at all, since our water is so alkaline anyway. The vinegar (small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amounts) seemed to fix the ph just fine. I don't like messing about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with sulphuric, muriatic, or hydrochloric acid, though I have done so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    before...I think I'll stick with milder forms. Petsmart is supposed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to get a new shipment of fishy stuff this weekend so I can get some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ph down...but things seem to be doing find (they had some test strips
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in a box there and I brought them home) right now. The nitrites are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    on the high edge of acceptable, but seem to be holding there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The filters we use are the activated carbon filters...top fin, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    beleive. When we change the filters, we take the old carbon from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    old filter and put it inside the new filter with the new carbon, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that the bacteria transfers. We haven't used anything else except
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    plants to absorb the nitrites...I just thought it was curious that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the nitrites were so spiked before I put in the vinegar and at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    perfectly acceptable levels afterwards. Then again, given the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    relative inexperience of the folks working at the fish department, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    could have been a faulty reading? I dunno

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In general, I don't like mucking about with chemicals at all, much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    prefer the organic fixes. I was wondering if using a little gypsum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in the base would help? Chunky gypsum tends to lightly acidify the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    water (and soil)...so maybe that would help, in combination with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    chunky peat I've got in the substrate? Any of you run a tank without
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    chemicals?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2543 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: pond plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Creeping buttercup (buttered popcorn is the name I purchased mine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    under) will grow on top of the water and in the ground, too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Warning, it is nearly invasive...depending on your description of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    invasive...it spreads like wildfire, but doesn't choke out other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    perennials, though some spindly annuals might get smothered. It is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    also toxic, though that doesn't seem to bother the koi at work.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Raccons and such tend to avoid it, though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hey, does anyone in the group know of a creeping pond perennial
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > will grow both in the water and on rocks? i'm looking for something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > cover up rough edges on a koi pond. the plant should be hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    enough
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > for NY weather...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2544 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Bleach kills landborn plants even in a mild solution...so I can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    imagine it not killing the water plants. Peroxide won't kill plants,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and is even good for adding to water from time to time, but I can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    see it killing the algae. What I did with my Java fern(? not sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it was labelled right, but oh well) was to simply rub the black stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    off for a while, keep the light levels low (ish), and pull the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    afflicted leaves off the plant as new ones sprouted up. The algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    eaters took care of the rest. I don't have any of the (visible)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    algae, now, thanks to the efforts of the shrimp and algae eaters.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Would a short dip in mild bleach water or peroxide, and then in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    salt water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not remove any algae on the plant?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2545 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: pond plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/17/2004 12:31:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    also toxic, though that doesn't seem to bother the koi at work. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Raccons and such tend to avoid it, though.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe it's effective at keeping the raccoons and such from eating the koi? If the koi don't bother it, but the raccoons avoid it ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just a thought.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2546 From: Julie Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    We did this because a mild bleach solution was suggested to kill snail eggs.  Completely defoliated 95% of the plants and left  us with "sticks".  Only a couple still had leaves on them. I went ahead and trimmed them and put them in and they are now starting to show some new growth (After 2 months)   Will never do this again. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    julie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Patrick

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Would a short dip in mild bleach water or peroxide, and then in salt water not remove any algae on the plant? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2547 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Freshwater shells
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2548 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    well the endlers arrived today luckily they all made it alive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they are so much smaller than i had thought they would be, so does
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    anyone know of how to keep them from being sucked into the filter of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a 10 gallon tank. for now i have them in a 1 1/2 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    air bubbles. i set up a 20 gallon and there's fish put in today to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    start it cycling. i hope to have many endlers and than put them in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the 20 gallon as they grow. =:O) i tried to take pictures of the one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that has coloring already but like you said it's hard. your picture
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    looks nice.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Congrats on the Endler's, I currently have 40-50 of them (I breed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    them).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Very difficult fish to photograph though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > One of the few good pics I've taken of them:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/detail?.dir=/1632&.dnm=d467.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    jpg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2549 From: Julie Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think I actually have some of these. :) Cool. We were given a buch of by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    someone who was tearing down 2 90 gallon tanks he was using for feeders for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the fish in his 100+ gallon tank. He said they were guppies, but judging by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the pics I have seen now, I think this is what they are. They are certainly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    psychedelic looking. How hardy are they?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    julie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > well the endlers arrived today luckily they all made it alive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > they are so much smaller than i had thought they would be,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ) i tried to take pictures of the one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that has coloring already but like you said it's hard. your picture
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > looks nice.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Congrats on the Endler's, I currently have 40-50 of them (I breed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Very difficult fish to photograph though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > One of the few good pics I've taken of them:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/detail?.dir=/1632&.dnm=d467.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > jpg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2550 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Endler's (Live plants)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    what are the difference between endlers and gamboozia? from the photos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they are identical.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 17, 2004, at 2:26 PM, Julie wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I think I actually have some of these. :)  Cool. We were given a buch
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > someone who was tearing down 2 90 gallon tanks he was using for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > feeders for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the fish in his 100+ gallon tank.  He said they were guppies, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > judging by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the pics I have seen now, I think this is what they are.  They are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > certainly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > psychedelic looking.  How hardy are they?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > julie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I am not a complete idiot.  Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >    well the endlers arrived today luckily they all made it alive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > they are so much smaller than i had thought they would be,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ) i tried to take pictures of the one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > that has coloring already but like you said it's hard. your picture
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > looks nice.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Congrats on the Endler's, I currently have 40-50 of them (I breed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > them).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Very difficult fish to photograph though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > One of the few good pics I've taken of them:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/detail?.dir=/1632&.dnm=d467.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > jpg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2551 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gambusia are plain brown colored, both male and females. Male Endler's are very brightly colored. Here's the link again to my pic showing 2 females and a male http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/detail?.dir=/1632&.dnm=d467.jpg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: amalthea23

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    what are the difference between endlers and gamboozia? from the photos, they are identical.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2552 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A clean piece of nylon (hose) or netting rubber-banded over the intake
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    helps. You might want to adjust the flow on your filter if you have that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    option, Endler's don't like a lot of current. They also like temps in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    77-79° range.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they are so much smaller than i had thought they would be, so does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    know of how to keep them from being sucked into the filter of a 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank. for now i have them in a 1 1/2 gallon tank with air bubbles. i set up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a 20 gallon and there's fish put in today to start it cycling. i hope to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have many endlers and than put them in the 20 gallon as they grow. =:O) i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tried to take pictures of the one that has coloring already but like you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    said it's hard. your picture looks nice.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2553 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i have caught live gamboozia from a local pond with the exact same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    coloring though. are endlers native to the norteastern united states?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    perhaps there has been interbreeding?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 17, 2004, at 2:50 PM, Dan & Theresa wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Gambusia are plain brown colored, both male and females. Male Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are very brightly colored. Here's the link again to my pic showing 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > females and a male
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtmergl/detail?.dir=/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 1632&.dnm=d467.jpg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > From: amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > what are the difference between endlers and gamboozia? from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > photos, they are identical.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > amalthea
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2554 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Endler's have only been confirmed in one location in the world and appear to be extinct in the wild. I've only heard of interbreeding with guppies, which results in sterile offspring.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Endler's articles:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: amalthea23

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i have caught live gamboozia from a local pond with the exact same coloring though. are endlers native to the norteastern united states? perhaps there has been interbreeding?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2555 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hmm, perhaps we have extremely colorful gamboozia then. the males from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my pond are often extremely brightly colored.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 17, 2004, at 4:25 PM, Dan & Theresa wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Endler's have only been confirmed in one location in the world
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and appear to be extinct in the wild. I've only heard of interbreeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with guppies, which results in sterile offspring.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Endler's articles:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://members.cox.net/newcomb1/endlers.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://endlerslivebearer.com/ver1.0/articles/ericsmith/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > eric_endlers.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.aquaworldaquarium.com/Endler's_Livebearer.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/endlerslivebearer/page3.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.petfish.net/endlers.htm
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > From: amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > i have caught live gamboozia from a local pond with the exact same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > coloring though. are endlers native to the norteastern united states?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2556 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Salt is not a medicine, so it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > can't do any good for treating a disease at high levels. It does do good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > when there is a disease to put 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons to help the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > breath, etc. I wouldn't put more than 1 teaspoon per gallon in a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank, though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree, freshwater aquarium salt is not a medicine; so I don't know about diseases, but I do know that a soak in warm salt water helps my own minor injuries heal, so it stands to reason it would be helpful for this for fishies as well. Salt is also one of the many minerals that all animals need in their diets, and many sites I have visited recommend it be added to the tank to improve gill function and help the fish avoid digestive problems. But only add back in what percentage you have taken out with the water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Anticdote: I noticed one of my female dwarf Gouramis looking very sickly the day before yesterday. She was very sluggish in her movement, mostly just sitting on the bottom or in one spot, and she would not eat, and her eyes had darkened, and her breathing had slowed to about one breath for five the others were taking. I added 10 mL of Melafix, in case the male had hurt her in one of his overzealous embraces, and also added the 1 tsp of salt I had forgotten to add with my last 1.5 gal water change, and the next morning she was improved noticeably. Today she is as active as all of the others. (All the others in the tank were more active as well, by the way.)I was very concerned about her - she really looked as if she was about to die, and I woke up that night from a nightmare that I found her floating on the top. (Over a nameless fish I have had for only 28 days now.) This amount of salt I am adding is just a smidgen under the 1 T per 5 gal recommended level. And it hasn't hurt my aquarium plants one bit - I have 6 Aponogeton crispus, 1 each Cabomba and Water Sprite, some Java Moss on a piece of driftwood, and some Riccia floating on top. Nor has it hurt the garden plants I have been pouring my old water on, outside.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On another topic - using an airstone at night when my light is off hasn't hurt my plants either; although they are all new (I only started my tank in May) I have already had to trim back the Cabomba because it was too tall, and I am constantly having to remove excess leaves and flowers from my Aponogetons. My substrate? Ordinary cheap WalMart aquarium gravel. My KH and pH levels are stable... aren't those how you determine your CO2 levels?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am using the airstone because my dwarf Gouramis seem to enjoy it, and I use the same little airpump to run the "disposable" filter in my 2.5 gallon fry tank (which, by the way, I intend to continue to use indefinitely - I simply gently pryed off the plastic screen, emptied then refilled it with fresh carbon, rinsed and replaced the sponge media, and put the screen back on).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a lot of Scot blood in me... as you see from the "disposable filter" story above, I will save every dollar I can! So maybe when my pound of aquarium salt runs out, I will use my Kosher salt. But don't use table salt - it has iodine added.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Audrey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2557 From: andrew davis Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Live plants, disinfecting alternatives
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Bleach and salt will kill most things if it is strong enough. As algae is a plant, just like the plant you are trying to 'clean up' you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    are just as likely to kill the plant as the algae

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Where bleach is effective is killing nasties such as fungus or small insects, a soak in a bucket with one or two spoons of bleach is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    likely to 'clean up' a lot of pests without much harm to the plant. I've seen stray forgotten water lilies live for weeks in a spoon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    or two of bleach in a bucket of water...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Bleach is unlikely to do anything for snail eggs, as the egg is sealed, it would take a second bleach dip to stand some chance of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    getting the snails after they have hatched...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Good old copper sulphate at 2 to 4 ppm is an effective (and very cheap) algae killer, most plants can cope with a soak in that

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards, andy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Julie" <jaramey@b...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > We did this because a mild bleach solution was suggested to kill snail eggs. Completely defoliated 95% of the plants and left us with "sticks". Only a couple still had leaves on them. I went ahead and trimmed them and put them in and they are now starting to show some new growth (After 2 months) Will never do this again.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > julie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Cheyenne, Wyoming

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > From: Patrick

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Would a short dip in mild bleach water or peroxide, and then in salt water not remove any algae on the plant?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2558 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Companions for Large Frontosa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A friend of mine is giving up his aquarium hobby and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm relatively a beginner. My experience is caring
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    for Bettas and an overstocked small desktop aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Anyway, he is selling me his setup for very cheap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Essentially it conists of a 150 gallon tank and all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the necessary components. I'm also getting the two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    remaining fish that he has left. One is a very large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Frontosa and the other is a very large algae eater (I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    forget what kind.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I originally was going to sell the fish. I figured I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    could probably restock the tank and then some for what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I could get for the Frontosa. I've since decided to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    keep the fish and add other Cichlids. However, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cannot afford to purchase fish anywhere near the size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of the Frontosa. If I stock the tank with smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    more affordable fish (that may grow to be larger fish)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    will the Frontosa eat them. I'm mainly considering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    other Chiclids. When I say small, I'm referring to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the under $10 variety.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Also, how old do Forntosas live to be? I believe this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    one is five or six years old and around eight inches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    long.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for any advice and help. Hopefully I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    over my head here.



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2559 From: paul helms Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Companions for Large Frontosa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the frontosa will more than likely kill any small fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that you add to the tank unless you add them during
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the move, then it may be too busy reaquanting itself
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with teh tank--- Todd Fields <jtfields91@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > A friend of mine is giving up his aquarium hobby and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'm relatively a beginner. My experience is caring
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > for Bettas and an overstocked small desktop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Anyway, he is selling me his setup for very cheap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Essentially it conists of a 150 gallon tank and all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the necessary components. I'm also getting the two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > remaining fish that he has left. One is a very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Frontosa and the other is a very large algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > forget what kind.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I originally was going to sell the fish. I figured
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > could probably restock the tank and then some for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I could get for the Frontosa. I've since decided to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > keep the fish and add other Cichlids. However, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > cannot afford to purchase fish anywhere near the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of the Frontosa. If I stock the tank with smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > more affordable fish (that may grow to be larger
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > will the Frontosa eat them. I'm mainly considering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > other Chiclids. When I say small, I'm referring to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the under $10 variety.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Also, how old do Forntosas live to be? I believe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > one is five or six years old and around eight inches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > long.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks for any advice and help. Hopefully I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > over my head here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2560 From: paul helms Date: 6/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    salt is deadly to all freshwater parasites and most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fresh water bacteria. when submerging a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish into a salt water dip for 30 seconds to three
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    minutes, the parasites will literally fall off of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish and be dead--- Audrey Archer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <arch1574@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Salt is not a medicine, so it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > can't do any good for treating a disease at high
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > levels. It does do good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > when there is a disease to put 1 tablespoon per 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gallons to help the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > breath, etc. I wouldn't put more than 1 teaspoon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > per gallon in a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > tank, though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I agree, freshwater aquarium salt is not a medicine;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > so I don't know about diseases, but I do know that a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > soak in warm salt water helps my own minor injuries
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > heal, so it stands to reason it would be helpful for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > this for fishies as well. Salt is also one of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > many minerals that all animals need in their diets,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and many sites I have visited recommend it be added
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to the tank to improve gill function and help the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish avoid digestive problems. But only add back in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > what percentage you have taken out with the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Anticdote: I noticed one of my female dwarf Gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > looking very sickly the day before yesterday. She
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > was very sluggish in her movement, mostly just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sitting on the bottom or in one spot, and she would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not eat, and her eyes had darkened, and her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > breathing had slowed to about one breath for five
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the others were taking. I added 10 mL of Melafix, in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > case the male had hurt her in one of his overzealous
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > embraces, and also added the 1 tsp of salt I had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > forgotten to add with my last 1.5 gal water change,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and the next morning she was improved noticeably.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Today she is as active as all of the others. (All
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the others in the tank were more active as well, by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the way.)I was very concerned about her - she really
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > looked as if she was about to die, and I woke up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that night from a nightmare that I found her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > floating on the top. (Over a nameless fish I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > had for only 28 days now.) This amount of salt I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > adding is just a smidgen under the 1 T per 5 gal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > recommended level. And it hasn't hurt my aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants one bit - I have 6 Aponogeton crispus, 1 each
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Cabomba and Water Sprite, some Java Moss on a piece
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of driftwood, and some Riccia floating on top. Nor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > has it hurt the garden plants I have been pouring my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > old water on, outside.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > On another topic - using an airstone at night when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > my light is off hasn't hurt my plants either;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > although they are all new (I only started my tank in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > May) I have already had to trim back the Cabomba
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > because it was too tall, and I am constantly having
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to remove excess leaves and flowers from my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Aponogetons. My substrate? Ordinary cheap WalMart
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium gravel. My KH and pH levels are stable...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aren't those how you determine your CO2 levels?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I am using the airstone because my dwarf Gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > seem to enjoy it, and I use the same little airpump
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to run the "disposable" filter in my 2.5 gallon fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank (which, by the way, I intend to continue to use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > indefinitely - I simply gently pryed off the plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > screen, emptied then refilled it with fresh carbon,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > rinsed and replaced the sponge media, and put the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > screen back on).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have a lot of Scot blood in me... as you see from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the "disposable filter" story above, I will save
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > every dollar I can! So maybe when my pound of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium salt runs out, I will use my Kosher salt.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > But don't use table salt - it has iodine added.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Audrey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2561 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/17/2004 7:15:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, arch1574@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I use the same little airpump to run the "disposable" filter in my 2.5 gallon fry tank (which, by the way, I intend to continue to use indefinitely - I simply gently pryed off the plastic screen, emptied then refilled it with fresh carbon, rinsed and replaced the sponge media, and put the screen back on).


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You'll have to show me how you managed that one. I looked and looked at those disposable filters when I had my fry tank occupied, and could not for the life of me figure out how to take them apart without breaking them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I did figure out how to use the filter cartridges I bought for the old undergravel filter system right before the switch though. I just pry the little plastic bars off one at a time until I've got a big enough hole that I can pour the carbon out of, and add it in with the carbon in the packet for my TopFin filter system. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2562 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: betta pics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks, he is definitely that green and funny thing is he was an impulse buy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    at PetSmart. Randy is my only crowntail. There's a really nice lfs about an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hour from where I live, it's the first store I've seen CTs at around here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My husband actually picked him out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Currently I have 3 female bettas and 4 males. I've been keeping bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    almost continually for over 20 years.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "freedombell2002" <Kpribble@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I was looking thur you photos, I think its the 7th pic the beta named
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tempo? Its he really as green as he looks in pic? Also Randy the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > crowntail is very pretty also. Thanks for sharing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2563 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: e-mail expression
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Oh crap, I'm damaged.... I'm not sorry :-) I mean "I'm not sorry I took
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the money" (PeeWee in the Cheech and Chong movie) Sorry t takes me so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    long to reply to the mail, but so far in my estimation, adulthood is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    vastly overrated. I should be able to play on the web and screw the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    job!!!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2564 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Okay, jmo, but stop listening to PestMart (note the spelling) and stop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    screwing with the pH. Your water is probably the same as the store AND
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    THEY DO NOT CHANGE THEIR pH! So why the hell would you change yours? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    worked at one for 7 years, most of the time as Livestock Manager and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    never changed the pH nor was instructed to.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2565 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Okay, you probably need to check your waters pH after it's been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    dechlored for a week and allowed to sit. I've had tanks from Buffalo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and Rochester, NY to Tulsa, OK to Ft. Polk, LA and have never had water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that tests as high as 9. Maybe your tester is old? Water out of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tap will always test high unless allowed to rest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2566 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry Ray, but I second what Joe has to say about the acids, and, just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    as importantly, the zeolite. When I have more time, I'll voice my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    concerns, but they will just mirror J.P.'s.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2567 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    pH Down is the most expensive battery acid in the world, sulfuric acid.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do I want this in my tanks, much less my house? NO! JMO, but it's a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    crap product.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2568 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How, exactly, does the natual cycle take place in the absence of ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that is removed by zeolite. If the food for the bacteria isn't there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    how can it multiply? Much better off adding Amquel Plus, at least it'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    detoxify the ammonia and the nitrites until a complete cycle takes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    place, but what do I know after 36 years of fish happiness :-). Don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mean to bust any orbs, but I've heard so much lately because of a local
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish store trying to sell lots of zeolite cause he can't get Amquel Plus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    yet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2569 From: Patrick Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not only is pH down and pH up not worth buying, you can find much better things to do the same job in your kitchen.  I also have problems with aquarium salt, aquarium light bulbs, and "goldfish" bowls.  I don't know how these companies stay in business...oh wait...it is because people buy their stuff. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pH Down is the most expensive battery acid in the world, sulfuric acid.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Do I want this in my tanks, much less my house?  NO!  JMO, but it's a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      crap product.  

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2570 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Audrey, iodine is not a problem. The anti caking agent used in table
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      salt is the issue. With all the blood vessels in the gills any blood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      thinners are dangerous and the calcium castinate used in most tablesalts
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (I've had a few tonight, might have misspelled it) are blood thinners.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Iodine is actually beneficial. It's usuall added to micronutient
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      additives for freswater and marine tanks. There used to be a discussion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      about iodine and the thyroid, but it was proven to be bull-poopy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Oop's, I'll watch my mouth..... If anyoe has an old TFH from 99 or 00,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      there is an article that'll back my opinion, I no longer have it though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Gave my Mom a ton of old mags when she started a pond, but you know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mom's, when they're done, they throw everything out (what the hell did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you do whith my comic books?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2571 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      RIGHT ON PATRICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Greed does funny thing to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      people! Hey, I have the new aquarium salt at work, $13 a pound and it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      comes with a great "painting of a little girl with an umbrella on it" at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      no extra cost, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. If a penny was still made out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      copper, I'd use it for parasite control.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2572 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: New endlers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have 12 new endlers, still babies only one in color a male of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      course, they seem to be doing well although there is one that hangs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      out at the top of the tank and chases away anyone who gets close to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      her/him. should i do a water change maybe or does is she still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      trying to ajust to the trip in the dark box in the mail to my bright
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank. i also have live plants in there of which they seem to peck at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      all the time and no other fish. well i love them so far and hope to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      have them for many years to come. tommorow i'll try and take a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      picture of them to post.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2573 From: tony Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Protomelas Ornatus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi Everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm looking for some Protomelas Ornatus "Pombo Rocks". If anyone has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      any or knows where I can find some, please let me know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Tony...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2574 From: paul helms Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      be very careful when using amquel +. while the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      original amquel was non toxic to fish, the new stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      is pretty potent. do not double dose, as it is likely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to shcok the fish rather quickly. double dosing water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      prior to tank introduction is fine, but not straight
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in. in the trivalley area, a single dose is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      enough. on Feb 1st our water was changed to include
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      nitrate of about 35ppm straight from the tap, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      amquel + is only capabl;e of diminishing 15 ppm per
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      dose. if you start with clean treated water, you will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      still get amonia from deceased bacteria in the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      which will be sufficient to start the c-ycle. i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      also had great luck with stress zyme--
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > How, exactly, does the natual cycle take place in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the absence of ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > that is removed by zeolite. If the food for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > bacteria isn't there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > how can it multiply? Much better off adding Amquel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Plus, at least it'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > detoxify the ammonia and the nitrites until a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > complete cycle takes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > place, but what do I know after 36 years of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > happiness :-). Don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > mean to bust any orbs, but I've heard so much lately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > because of a local
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > fish store trying to sell lots of zeolite cause he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > can't get Amquel Plus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > yet.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2575 From: paul helms Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      orange peel works great--- bucks_boogie@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > pH Down is the most expensive battery acid in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > world, sulfuric acid.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Do I want this in my tanks, much less my house? NO!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > JMO, but it's a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > crap product.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2576 From: paul helms Date: 6/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i don't know what state you are in, but tap water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      comes out at 9 or higher in the bay area of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      california, and will stay there unless it is put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the tank. some rocks will lower the ph in the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      as will some of the bacteria, but just letting it sit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      on the counter it will test the same---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Okay, you probably need to check your waters pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > after it's been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > dechlored for a week and allowed to sit. I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > tanks from Buffalo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > and Rochester, NY to Tulsa, OK to Ft. Polk, LA and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have never had water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > that tests as high as 9. Maybe your tester is old?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Water out of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > tap will always test high unless allowed to rest.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2577 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Salt in Freshwater Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 6/19/2004 12:07:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, bucks_boogie@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Gave my Mom a ton of old mags when she started a pond, but you know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mom's, when they're done, they throw everything out


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      LOL Not mine. She's a packrat. Guess that's where I get it, huh mom? *grin*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2578 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: live plants help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've had some Aponogeton in my 15 gallon tank (and one bulb is in my daughter's betta tank) for about a month now ... the package said they "should grow 6" to 8" in 15 days". Mine are about 4" inches max. They are planted in gravel, staggered throughout the aquarium. I buried the bulbs in the gravel, because the package said they'd grow faster that way. I'm giving them 12 hours of light per day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      How can I help their growth? Should I invest in aquarium plant food tablets or aquarium plant fertilizers? Or are those a waste of money? Do I need to switch the kind of bulbs I put in the aquarium hood? Is 7 bulbs too much for a 15 gallon tank with four mollies (two of which are still tiny) and three platies?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I know these plants get a lot bigger ... for some reason my mother's plants of the same type are growing HUGE. (but then, Mom has always had a green thumb, when mine is more brown. *grin*)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      When I've been vacuuming the gravel, I avoid the area directly around the plants so that I don't damage the roots, and was thinking that the plants would feed on the waste there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My fish are nibbling the leaves a little, which I was expecting. But since I removed the plecostamus, there hasn't been any major leaf damage done. (Plecostamus is now living in mom's outdoor pond with some White Cloud Minnows.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So ... any help on keeping live plants would be great! Would also appreciate recommendations for other plants ... something with tough leaves preferably, and easy to care for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2579 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Axelrod Arrested!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is from another list and was posted Thursday. There was no attribution
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of the article, but further posts indicate that it may have come from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Newark Star Ledger or that it was an AP story.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ---------------------------------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Fugitive millionaire Herbert Axelrod, wanted on tax fraud charges in New
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Jersey, was arrested at a German airport after a flight from Switzerland,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      federal prosecutors said Wednesday.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The U.S. Attorney's Office in New Jersey said it notified German authorities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      it would seek to have Axelrod extradited.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The 76-year-old pet products tycoon surfaced in Cuba soon after being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      indicted April 13 on charges that he used Swiss bank accounts to hide income
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      from the Internal Revenue Service.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Axelrod gained national attention in 2003 for selling millions of dollars
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      worth of musical instruments at a discount to the New Jersey Symphony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Orchestra. The Golden Age Collection included 30 violins, violas and cellos
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      made by famed craftsmen Antonio Stradivari, Giuseppe Guarneri del Gesu and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      others during the 17th and 18th centuries.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Axelrod was arrested at Tegel Airport in Berlin at 7:05 p.m. local time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Tuesday after flying from Zurich, the U.S. Attorney's office said in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      statement. The statement said the office would have no further comment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Michael Himmel, a lawyer who has represented Axelrod said Wednesday that he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      had not yet spoken to Axelrod and declined to comment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      U.S. District Judge Garrett E. Brown Jr. issued an arrest warrant April 21
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      after Axelrod failed to appear at his arraignment in Trenton.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Guadagno told the judge that day that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Axelrod was aware of the charges but had recently traveled to Cuba.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Guadagno said Axelrod's yacht was docked in Cuba and the former Deal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      resident was staying at the Marina Hemingway, a four-star resort in Havana.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The United States has no extradition treaty with Cuba.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Until 1997, Axelrod owned TFH Publications Inc. of Neptune City, which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      specializes in books on animals and pets, and whose products include the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Nylabone line of dog toys.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The two counts in the indictment, conspiracy and aiding in filing a false
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tax return, accused Axelrod of illegal actions relating to a former TFH vice
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      president.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Between 1990 and 1996, the executive, who was not named in the indictment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      received more than $700,000 in bonus payments, but the IRS was not advised.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The payments were deposited by Axelrod into Swiss bank accounts set up by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the same banker who had helped him set up his own Swiss accounts, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      indictment said.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Axelrod fired the vice president in 1996. The next year, Axelrod paid the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      former employee $950,000 in severance, with more than $775,000 going into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the foreign accounts of the former vice president, the indictment said.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Axelrod directed the executive not to disclose the existence of the Swiss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      accounts and told him that federal authorities could not obtain records of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the accounts, according to the indictment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The bonus and severance payments were funded largely by diverting checks due
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to TFH to the Swiss accounts, the indictment said.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If convicted, Axelrod faced up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      although the actual jail time would be far less under federal sentencing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      guidelines.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2580 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: More on Axelrod
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Smithsonian Benefactor Arrested In Germany
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      By Jacqueline Trescott
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Washington Post Staff Writer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Friday, June 18, 2004; Page C01

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The inquiry into a gift of Stradivarius instruments to the Smithsonian
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Institution took a dramatic turn this week when the donor, Herbert Axelrod,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      was arrested in Germany.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The multimillionaire philanthropist had fled the United States in April for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cuba and was arrested Tuesday night in Berlin after taking a flight from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Zurich. Axelrod, 76, is charged with defrauding the Internal Revenue Service
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in a business matter, but that inquiry opened up questions about whether he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      had deliberately exaggerated the value of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      instruments he gave the Smithsonian and the New Jersey Symphony Orchestra to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      get a substantial tax break. Orchestra officials say the FBI is reviewing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that transaction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Beginning in 1986, Axelrod, a New Jersey businessman who made millions in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pet products and pet care books, lent the National Museum of American
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      History four Stradivarius stringed instruments: a 1687 violin, a 1709
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      violin, a 1695 viola and a 1688 cello. The instruments, which collectively
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      were known as the Axelrod Quartet, were formally given to the museum in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      December 1997. At the time the collection was said to be valued at about $55
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      million, making the donation one of the largest in the Smithsonian's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      history.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Questions about the value of the gifts, and the tax breaks for the gifts,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      are not part of the federal case, said Michael Drewniak, a spokesman for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      U.S. attorney in Newark, N.J. "The charge has not changed," said Drewniak.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), chairman of the Senate Finance Committee,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      asked the Smithsonian for a history of its association with Axelrod and has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      called a hearing for next Tuesday to look into "overvalued deductions."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Smithsonian officials say it is not their policy or the procedure of any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      museum to do independent appraisals of gifts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "The Smithsonian does not provide donors with appraisals or fair market
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      valuations of items donated to its collection," Smithsonian Secretary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Lawrence M. Small said in a letter to Grassley. "The collections of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Smithsonian are selected for their scientific, artistic, and historical
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      significance, not their monetary value."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In documents about the Axelrod gift sent to Grassley, museum officials
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      attached several different values to the gift. In 1986, the instruments were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      given an insurance value of $5 million by Smithsonian officials. The next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      year a value of $20 million was assigned to the quartet. Not two months
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      later, it was listed as $30 million.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      When Axelrod formally donated the instruments in December 1997, a memo from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the Smithsonian general counsel's office noted a different value.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "[Axelrod's] attorneys yesterday informed me that the actual valuation for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tax purposes is $55 million," according to the memo.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Grassley said the papers did not clarify the Smithsonian's role in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      assessment of the instruments. "The letter raises more questions than it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      answers," he said. "Specific to the Axelrod donation, I want to understand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      why the Smithsonian refers to values of these instruments that are all over
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the map."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Speaking of those numbers, Small said in his letter, "These values are for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      insurance purposes only and are not based on the object's 'fair market
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      value,' the amount at issue when the donation is the subject of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      an income tax donation."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The internal memos given to the Senate, said spokeswoman Linda St. Thomas,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "are not official Smithsonian statements on the value of these objects. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      only time we put an official number is when we put it on an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      insurance policy."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      When an artifact is displayed outside Washington, it is insured and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      museum follows the owner's estimate. "The Smithsonian also has no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      involvement in the process of valuing an item so that its donor may take a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tax deduction," said Small in his letter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Axelrod has supported the Smithsonian for many years, giving $2.8 million in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cash to the American History Museum, as well as the National Museum of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Natural History, and donating 17 instruments. Part of his cash donation
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      supported performances using the rare musical items. Michael Himmel,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Axelrod's defense attorney, said yesterday he had not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      spoken to his client since his arrest and it could take months for the U.S.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      attorney's extradition request to be resolved. Himmel said questions about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the donations are misguided.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "During the period of time when the government was investigating his conduct
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      [in the tax matters], they also subpoenaed documents related to his violin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      collection. Had the government believed back then that they had a case that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      they could prove concerning the value of the violins," it would have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      included in the indictment. "They knew I had experts lined up who would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      weigh in on the true value of the instruments," Himmel said.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      C 2004 The Washington Post Company

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2581 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: Re: Whatever works

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > comes out at 9 or higher in the bay area of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > california, and will stay there unless it is put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the tank. some rocks will lower the ph in the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > as will some of the bacteria, but just letting it sit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > on the counter it will test the same---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Okay, you probably need to check your waters pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > after it's been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > dechlored for a week and allowed to sit. I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > tanks from Buffalo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > and Rochester, NY to Tulsa, OK to Ft. Polk, LA and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > have never had water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > that tests as high as 9. Maybe your tester is old?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Water out of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > tap will always test high unless allowed to rest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have wellwater (not City tapwater, no chlorine or other chemicals, this is natural water coming straight out of the ground) and my pH is somewhere between 8.5 and 9 also - I have had my wellwater (run through a faucet purifier) in my 2.5 gallon hospice tank for over 30 days, but my readings were over the pH 8.4 max for two weeks, on the test strips I use (which I have gone through 2 diferent brands and 3 different packages). So "letting it sit" is not the solution. And a pH of 8.4+ is nowhere near neutral! It is my understanding from articles written by chemists that it is an exponential relationship - pH 7.0 has ten times the acid of pH 8.0. That is why any changes you make are supposed to be 0.2 max.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I had gradually reduced my pH from 8.5+ to 7.8 during my fishless cycling, and ended up with getting driftwood for my 10 gal tank, which was recommended for Gouramis, and then my pH fell gradually and then remained stable at 7.2 for a while, but the brown stain is now gone from my water, and guess what? After my 15% water change this morning, using my lovely 8.5+ well water, my pH was increased from 7.2 to 7.8 again, and KH had increased from 80 to 120. It is fine to say "don't mess with the pH" if your levels are stable, but I can promise you my fish became much more active and happy after I was able to lower my pH. So I am at a loss. Also, no matter how many water changes I do (I did some extra ones when we had some 100 degree days, to reduce the water temp in my tank), I can never get my nitrate readings below 40 ppm. My Gouramis are fine with that level, which is on the high end of acceptable, but my Otocinclus is probably not a happy camper...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Also, thanks for the info about the anti-caking agent being the problem with table salt - I had heard iodine was the problem, but picked that clarification up from one of your prior posts; but I get the digest version so I had already sent my comment. And after rechecking my calculations I also realized that my salt levels are actually about 1/2 the "recommended", but I believe I had read somewhere that this was the appropriate level for a planted tank; 1 T per 10 gallons instead of 1 T per 5 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2582 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Axelrod Arrested!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The Axlerod scenario has been going on for quite a while. There's another group associated with Aquarium-plants that turned me on to the story awhile back. Seems they have a record of the story as it was unfolding. I'll check my Yahoo Groups and see get the Groupaddress. You'd need to join to read, 'tho a Google-search could turn up whatever the Yahoo-site has.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Joe Pascavage


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > This is from another list and was posted Thursday. There was no attribution
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > of the article, but further posts indicate that it may have come from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Newark Star Ledger or that it was an AP story.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ---------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Fugitive millionaire Herbert Axelrod, wanted on tax fraud charges in New
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Jersey, was arrested at a German airport after a flight from Switzerland,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > federal prosecutors said Wednesday.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The U.S. Attorney's Office in New Jersey said it notified German authorities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > it would seek to have Axelrod extradited.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The 76-year-old pet products tycoon surfaced in Cuba soon after being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > indicted April 13 on charges that he used Swiss bank accounts to hide income
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > from the Internal Revenue Service.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Axelrod gained national attention in 2003 for selling millions of dollars
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > worth of musical instruments at a discount to the New Jersey Symphony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Orchestra. The Golden Age Collection included 30 violins, violas and cellos
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > made by famed craftsmen Antonio Stradivari, Giuseppe Guarneri del Gesu and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > others during the 17th and 18th centuries.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Axelrod was arrested at Tegel Airport in Berlin at 7:05 p.m. local time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Tuesday after flying from Zurich, the U.S. Attorney's office said in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > statement. The statement said the office would have no further comment.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Michael Himmel, a lawyer who has represented Axelrod said Wednesday that he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > had not yet spoken to Axelrod and declined to comment.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > U.S. District Judge Garrett E. Brown Jr. issued an arrest warrant April 21
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > after Axelrod failed to appear at his arraignment in Trenton.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael Guadagno told the judge that day that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Axelrod was aware of the charges but had recently traveled to Cuba.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Guadagno said Axelrod's yacht was docked in Cuba and the former Deal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > resident was staying at the Marina Hemingway, a four-star resort in Havana.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The United States has no extradition treaty with Cuba.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Until 1997, Axelrod owned TFH Publications Inc. of Neptune City, which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > specializes in books on animals and pets, and whose products include the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Nylabone line of dog toys.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The two counts in the indictment, conspiracy and aiding in filing a false
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > tax return, accused Axelrod of illegal actions relating to a former TFH vice
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > president.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Between 1990 and 1996, the executive, who was not named in the indictment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > received more than $700,000 in bonus payments, but the IRS was not advised.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The payments were deposited by Axelrod into Swiss bank accounts set up by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the same banker who had helped him set up his own Swiss accounts, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > indictment said.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Axelrod fired the vice president in 1996. The next year, Axelrod paid the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > former employee $950,000 in severance, with more than $775,000 going into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the foreign accounts of the former vice president, the indictment said.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Axelrod directed the executive not to disclose the existence of the Swiss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > accounts and told him that federal authorities could not obtain records of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the accounts, according to the indictment.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The bonus and severance payments were funded largely by diverting checks due
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > to TFH to the Swiss accounts, the indictment said.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If convicted, Axelrod faced up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > although the actual jail time would be far less under federal sentencing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > guidelines.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2583 From: Patrick Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I wouldn't put more than 1 tbs per 10 gallons in a planted tank.  And you should lower the pH of water before it goes in the tank, not count on it lowering once it is in.  The best way to do that is to get a large container (like 50-100 gallons) and keep something in it that will lower it that is more natural than pH down (orange peel was suggested earlier, but there are many other things to put in).  When you need water, dip it out of that.  That way you will have a stable source of low-pH water.  When you dip some out, pour more water in.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            40ppm of nitrates is fine.  I really wish I had more nitrates, can I have half of yours? :)  I checked mine yesterday and they were 0ppm, which is terrible.  I guess my lowered feeding levels or test kit has gone terribly bad.  I personally hope it is the test kit, because I don't want 0 nitrates.  Then again, I don't want to have to pay another $5 for a test kit, either.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have wellwater (not City tapwater, no chlorine or other chemicals, this is natural water coming straight out of the ground) and my pH is somewhere between 8.5 and 9 also - I have had my wellwater (run through a faucet purifier) in my 2.5 gallon hospice tank for over 30 days, but my readings were over the pH 8.4 max for two weeks, on the test strips I use (which I have gone through 2 diferent brands and 3 different packages). So "letting it sit" is not the solution. And a pH of 8.4+ is nowhere near neutral! It is my understanding from articles written by chemists that it is an exponential relationship - pH 7.0 has ten times the acid of pH 8.0. That is why any changes you make are supposed to be 0.2 max.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I had gradually reduced my pH from 8.5+ to 7.8 during my fishless cycling, and ended up with getting driftwood for my 10 gal tank, which was recommended for Gouramis, and then my pH fell gradually and then remained stable at 7.2 for a while, but the brown stain is now gone from my water, and guess what? After my 15% water change this morning, using my lovely 8.5+ well water, my pH was increased from 7.2 to 7.8 again, and KH had increased from 80 to 120. It is fine to say "don't mess with the pH" if your levels are stable, but I can promise you my fish became much more active and happy after I was able to lower my pH. So I am at a loss. Also, no matter how many water changes I do (I did some extra ones when we had some 100 degree days, to reduce the water temp in my tank), I can never get my nitrate readings below 40 ppm. My Gouramis are fine with that level, which is on the high end of acceptable, but my Otocinclus is probably not a happy camper...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also, thanks for the info about the anti-caking agent being the problem with table salt - I had heard iodine was the problem, but picked that clarification up from one of your prior posts; but I get the digest version so I had already sent my comment. And after rechecking my calculations I also realized that my salt levels are actually about 1/2 the "recommended", but I believe I had read somewhere that this was the appropriate level for a planted tank; 1 T per 10 gallons instead of 1 T per 5 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2584 From: Patrick Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Axelrod
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               He is a hero to many, but may be just a common criminal.  People who do things like he is accused of are what makes people hate big business.  I am not rich (I plan to be a history teacher, but not coach), but I respect people who work hard to make a fortune.  But working hard and cheating hard are not the same thing.  That said, it should be noted that Mr. Axelrod is not guilty of this crime.  He accused of a crime in America.  That means he is innocent until proven guilty in an American court.  I personally don't know why what he is accused of is illegal, but then I am a history major and not a business major. :)  When the trial is over, we will know if he is guilty or not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2585 From: Patrick Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: live plants help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hardy aponogetons, the greatest plant ever. :)  I have a bunch of them that haveing gotten to over 3-4 inches in the last several months.  They have a dormant period when they slow their growth.  Most people take them out during that period, but that didn't help me much.  I think the problem is that these bulbs come to us late in their life.  When I first got mine, they filled my 10 gallon tank.  They grew like crazy!  Now they barely grow at all, despite the higher light levels, and my other plants are filling the tank around them.  I haven't tried fertilizer yet.  If you decide to, I suggest flourish, because that is what everyone suggests.  You can use Jobe's plant sticks like you put in flower pots, but you have to be careful with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've had some Aponogeton in my 15 gallon tank (and one bulb is in my daughter's betta tank) for about a month now ... the package said they "should grow 6" to 8" in 15 days". Mine are about 4" inches max. They are planted in gravel, staggered throughout the aquarium. I buried the bulbs in the gravel, because the package said they'd grow faster that way. I'm giving them 12 hours of light per day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            How can I help their growth? Should I invest in aquarium plant food tablets or aquarium plant fertilizers? Or are those a waste of money? Do I need to switch the kind of bulbs I put in the aquarium hood? Is 7 bulbs too much for a 15 gallon tank with four mollies (two of which are still tiny) and three platies?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know these plants get a lot bigger ... for some reason my mother's plants of the same type are growing HUGE. (but then, Mom has always had a green thumb, when mine is more brown. *grin*)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            When I've been vacuuming the gravel, I avoid the area directly around the plants so that I don't damage the roots, and was thinking that the plants would feed on the waste there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My fish are nibbling the leaves a little, which I was expecting. But since I removed the plecostamus, there hasn't been any major leaf damage done. (Plecostamus is now living in mom's outdoor pond with some White Cloud Minnows.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So ... any help on keeping live plants would be great! Would also appreciate recommendations for other plants ... something with tough leaves preferably, and easy to care for.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2586 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hybrids between guppys and endlers are definately fertile. You can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            also cross guppys with gambusia and they are fertile. I am assuming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you can cross gambusia with endlers, but i have personally never done
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            this cross. gambusia are native to north america. endlers are from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            northern tip of south america, and guppies are native to central
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            america and northern part of s. america. it is possible your pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            has some kind of livebearer hybrid. There is a form of gambusia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            where the males can be black or dark black spotted. Gambusia can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tolerate the coldest water of these 3 species. So unless you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            from the south or this pond has some heated water, these livebearers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            would not survive winter, or are hybrid gambusia's of some sort.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jason

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *****************************************************************
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2587 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Axelrod
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Among other things he is accused of hiding income to avoid income taxes. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you wish to read the indictment, it can be found at:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nj/publicaffairs/NJ_Press/files/pdffiles/axel0413_
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            d.pdf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (If the above line wraps, you will need to copy and paste it into your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            browser's address bar.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The valuation of the instruments that he donated to the Smithsonian in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Washington, as well as those sold to the NJ Symphony have also been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            questioned, but I don't know if this will lead to any further charges as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            valuation of such things is more or less an opinion rather than something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that is hard and fast.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            His business practices have been questionable ever since I can remember, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have been around a long time. The company to which he sold the TFH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Publications and other businesses to are hoping to meet him in court over
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            some fraud charges they would like to pursue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            While many people will acknowledge his contributions to the hobby in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bringing new people to it, many think he may have done a lot of harm as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            well. There are many verifiable errors in his writings, and many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            misidentifications in his fish books, and those published by TFH.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you would like to follow-up, I do have several articles that have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            printed in NJ newspapers that I can forward you off list to give you a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            better grasp of what is going on. As another reply to the original message
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            notes, there has been a lot of discussion about this on other lists covering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aspects of the hobby.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Patrick [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 1:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Axelrod


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            He is a hero to many, but may be just a common criminal. People who do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            things like he is accused of are what makes people hate big business. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            not rich (I plan to be a history teacher, but not coach), but I respect
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            people who work hard to make a fortune. But working hard and cheating hard
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are not the same thing. That said, it should be noted that Mr. Axelrod is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            not guilty of this crime. He accused of a crime in America. That means he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is innocent until proven guilty in an American court. I personally don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            know why what he is accused of is illegal, but then I am a history major and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            not a business major. :) When the trial is over, we will know if he is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            guilty or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami. I do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2588 From: red-eye Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: live plants help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I purchased 4 bulbs in a plastic bag. Within one week they grew foliage to the top of the water in a 60 gal.




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              At 10:39 AM 6/19/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hardy aponogetons, the greatest plant ever. :)  I have a bunch of them that haveing gotten to over 3-4 inches in the last several months.  They have a dormant period when they slow their growth.  Most people take them out during that period, but that didn't help me much.  I think the problem is that these bulbs come to us late in their life.  When I first got mine, they filled my 10 gallon tank.  They grew like crazy!  Now they barely grow at all, despite the higher light levels, and my other plants are filling the tank around them.  I haven't tried fertilizer yet.  If you decide to, I suggest flourish, because that is what everyone suggests.  You can use Jobe's plant sticks like you put in flower pots, but you have to be careful with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http //groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've had some Aponogeton in my 15 gallon tank (and one bulb is in my daughter's betta tank) for about a month now ... the package said they "should grow 6" to 8" in 15 days". Mine are about 4" inches max. They are planted in gravel, staggered throughout the aquarium. I buried the bulbs in the gravel, because the package said they'd grow faster that way. I'm giving them 12 hours of light per day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How can I help their growth? Should I invest in aquarium plant food tablets or aquarium plant fertilizers? Or are those a waste of money? Do I need to switch the kind of bulbs I put in the aquarium hood? Is 7 bulbs too much for a 15 gallon tank with four mollies (two of which are still tiny) and three platies?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I know these plants get a lot bigger ... for some reason my mother's plants of the same type are growing HUGE. (but then, Mom has always had a green thumb, when mine is more brown. *grin*)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              When I've been vacuuming the gravel, I avoid the area directly around the plants so that I don't damage the roots, and was thinking that the plants would feed on the waste there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My fish are nibbling the leaves a little, which I was expecting. But since I removed the plecostamus, there hasn't been any major leaf damage done. (Plecostamus is now living in mom's outdoor pond with some White Cloud Minnows.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So ... any help on keeping live plants would be great! Would also appreciate recommendations for other plants ... something with tough leaves preferably, and easy to care for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2589 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey Paul, that's a great idea, and I'm sure it'd add Vitamin C too, one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              of the most important nutients for fish. Excellent!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2590 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've never found any rocks or bacteria that will lower the pH, but if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              you know of them that will, let me know. That'd be great because it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              would have to do it gradually and that's the prefered way, nice and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              slow, unlike the chemicals.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2591 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Wow, thanks for the heads up on the Amquel Plus. I was used to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              non-toxic nature of Amquel, but the new Plus lends itself to be just as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              safe. Good to know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2592 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: aponogetons

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bulbous or African aponogetons can be difficult to keep. Sure they'll grow ok at first: that's because they're feeding on their food reserves rather than from the substrate. They send out roots to anchor themselves but the necessary nutrition may not obtained or present. Fertilization without checking first what's wrong with your aponogeton may only result in a nitrogen and phosphate spike and algae growth.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              African aponogetons come from the island of Madagascar, separated from their Asian and Indian cousins by the movement of the continents and have evolved into a distinct subgroup. Their environment are seasonal cool rivers and streams surrounded by coral cliffs, growing on fine silty beds. Hence, fine coral sand substrate or hard and alkaline water and filtered light, around 3 watts per gallon may be best for them. Ulvaceus is the hardiest of the African aponogetons and has been used to produce more durable hybrids of the less hardier species. Other hobbyists may have had success with them using different parameters but I am writing what I have observed myself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've read a post somewhere that cryptocorynes can be beneficial to aponogetons as their roots somehow improve the substrate for the aponogetons but I haven't verified this yet. I've also read posts that African aponogetons often require tanks solely set-up for them. But this may also be hard to ascertain as there are certainly tanks wherein African aponogetons look very much alive and well with other plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I myself prefer the rhizomatous or Asian aponogetons as they do not have a resting period and are much more suited to my set-up but cannot deny that African aponogetons are a sight to behold.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I salute your mom's green thumb for being able to make them thrive. :-)


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2593 From: red-eye Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: fluval 404 canister filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There really isn't much to getting a cannister going - why not go to your local shop & take a look at it is set up - *assuming you have been to the fluval site first  :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes you can reactivate charcoal. Bake it for 20 minutes at 350 degrees.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              damaged but healing & I like that.....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bwahahahahahahaha hahahaha ha


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              source_ http://www.startribune.com/stories/389/4822618.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Activated charcoal (available at drugstores and aquarium stores) will soak up persistent odors. Spread 3 ounces of the fine powdered charcoal on a sheet of aluminum foil or shallow pan and place in the microwave and close the door. After six to eight hours, put the pan in a conventional oven and heat at 350 degrees for 20 minutes. (This will reactivate the charcoal so it can be re-used.) Place the charcoal back in the oven and repeat this process until the odor disappears





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              At 10:52 AM 6/9/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              our church group was given a 55 gal aquarium with a fluval 404
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              canister filter system ,, unfortunately , it did not come with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              instruction booklet ,, anybody have 1 to spare ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              also ,, activated carbon ,,, i know it " deactivates" over time ,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              can it be " reactivated" ?      and , just how is it done ,, ?





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2594 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Since you have well water, there's already is salt in it, nature does
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what it does. Nice liquid rock, though. :-) I suggest trying a water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              softening pillow. It'll lower the mineral content and naturally lower
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              your pH wihout harsh chemical. I think Aquarium Pharm has them at a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              reasonable price and it's rechargable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2595 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: aponogetons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/20/2004 2:23:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, la_rmarquezjr@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bulbous or African aponogetons can be difficult to keep.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The package was labeled "Hybrid Aponogetion Bulbs". *shrugs* I've tried turning off the air flow into the tanks ... never thought the bubble wand would interfere with plant growth. So I'm trying that first, to see how they do, and if their growth doesn't improve a little bit (since they seem to have plateau'd) I might try some aquarium fertilizer or plant food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2596 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              crushed lava rock will lower your ph for you. you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              find crushed lava (medium gravel size fairly cheap at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              a good flower green house. especially those that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              specialize in orchids. i found this out the hard way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i used it as a substrate and kept ending up with a ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              of 4. the lava substrate was the cause, so if you were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to either mix it in or get some larger pieces as decor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it should work. i don't think the man made stuff you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              will find in aquarium shops will do it. look for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              natural--- bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've never found any rocks or bacteria that will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > lower the pH, but if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > you know of them that will, let me know. That'd be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > great because it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > would have to do it gradually and that's the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > prefered way, nice and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > slow, unlike the chemicals.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2597 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: live plants help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i liek the hardy apo too, but i have found the dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              lillies to be really nice too. they come in the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              type of package, grow a little taller and a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              quicker, and flower at the top of the tank. they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              available at walmart--- Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hardy aponogetons, the greatest plant ever. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have a bunch of them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that haveing gotten to over 3-4 inches in the last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > several months. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > have a dormant period when they slow their growth.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Most people take them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > out during that period, but that didn't help me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > much. I think the problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > is that these bulbs come to us late in their life.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > When I first got mine,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > they filled my 10 gallon tank. They grew like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > crazy! Now they barely grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > at all, despite the higher light levels, and my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > other plants are filling the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank around them. I haven't tried fertilizer yet.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > If you decide to, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > suggest flourish, because that is what everyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > suggests. You can use Jobe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > s plant sticks like you put in flower pots, but you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > have to be careful with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 2 neons and 3 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > raised guppy, 2 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > gourami. I do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've had some Aponogeton in my 15 gallon tank (and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > one bulb is in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > daughter's betta tank) for about a month now ... the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > package said they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > should grow 6" to 8" in 15 days". Mine are about 4"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > inches max. They are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > planted in gravel, staggered throughout the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > aquarium. I buried the bulbs in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the gravel, because the package said they'd grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > faster that way. I'm giving
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > them 12 hours of light per day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > How can I help their growth? Should I invest in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > aquarium plant food tablets
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > or aquarium plant fertilizers? Or are those a waste
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > of money? Do I need to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > switch the kind of bulbs I put in the aquarium hood?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Is 7 bulbs too much for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > a 15 gallon tank with four mollies (two of which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > still tiny) and three
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > platies?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I know these plants get a lot bigger ... for some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > reason my mother's plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > of the same type are growing HUGE. (but then, Mom
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > has always had a green
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > thumb, when mine is more brown. *grin*)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > When I've been vacuuming the gravel, I avoid the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > area directly around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > plants so that I don't damage the roots, and was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > thinking that the plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > would feed on the waste there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > My fish are nibbling the leaves a little, which I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > was expecting. But since I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > removed the plecostamus, there hasn't been any major
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > leaf damage done.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > (Plecostamus is now living in mom's outdoor pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > with some White Cloud
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Minnows.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > So ... any help on keeping live plants would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > great! Would also appreciate recommendations for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > other plants ... something with tough leaves
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > preferably, and easy to care for.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2598 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i see that some people think that 40 ppm of nitrate is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              a good thing out of the tap. i know that 40 ppm is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              toxic, but when you are adding that water to a tank as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              a top off, nitrates are probably already going to be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bit high, so adding that high of a concentration can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              be a bad thing. this can especially be bad if you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              trying to lower nitrates and are replacing nitrates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              with nitrates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Audrey Archer <arch1574@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Subject: Re: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > comes out at 9 or higher in the bay area of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > california, and will stay there unless it is put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the tank. some rocks will lower the ph in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > as will some of the bacteria, but just letting it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > sit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > on the counter it will test the same---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Okay, you probably need to check your waters pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > after it's been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > dechlored for a week and allowed to sit. I've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > tanks from Buffalo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > and Rochester, NY to Tulsa, OK to Ft. Polk, LA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > have never had water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that tests as high as 9. Maybe your tester is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > old?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Water out of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > tap will always test high unless allowed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > rest.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have wellwater (not City tapwater, no chlorine or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > other chemicals, this is natural water coming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > straight out of the ground) and my pH is somewhere
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > between 8.5 and 9 also - I have had my wellwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > (run through a faucet purifier) in my 2.5 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > hospice tank for over 30 days, but my readings were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > over the pH 8.4 max for two weeks, on the test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > strips I use (which I have gone through 2 diferent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > brands and 3 different packages). So "letting it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > sit" is not the solution. And a pH of 8.4+ is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > nowhere near neutral! It is my understanding from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > articles written by chemists that it is an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > exponential relationship - pH 7.0 has ten times the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > acid of pH 8.0. That is why any changes you make are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > supposed to be 0.2 max.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I had gradually reduced my pH from 8.5+ to 7.8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > during my fishless cycling, and ended up with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > getting driftwood for my 10 gal tank, which was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > recommended for Gouramis, and then my pH fell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > gradually and then remained stable at 7.2 for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > while, but the brown stain is now gone from my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > water, and guess what? After my 15% water change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > this morning, using my lovely 8.5+ well water, my pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > was increased from 7.2 to 7.8 again, and KH had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > increased from 80 to 120. It is fine to say "don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > mess with the pH" if your levels are stable, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > can promise you my fish became much more active and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > happy after I was able to lower my pH. So I am at a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > loss. Also, no matter how many water changes I do (I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > did some extra ones when we had some 100 degree
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > days, to reduce the water temp in my tank), I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > never get my nitrate readings below 40 ppm. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Gouramis are fine with that level, which is on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > high end of acceptable, but my Otocinclus is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > probably not a happy camper...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Also, thanks for the info about the anti-caking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > agent being the problem with table salt - I had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > heard iodine was the problem, but picked that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > clarification up from one of your prior posts; but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > get the digest version so I had already sent my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > comment. And after rechecking my calculations I also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > realized that my salt levels are actually about 1/2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the "recommended", but I believe I had read
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > somewhere that this was the appropriate level for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > planted tank; 1 T per 10 gallons instead of 1 T per
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 5 gallons.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2599 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: live plants help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i have found that just placing the bulbs in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and letting them grow roots before planting has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              resulted in plants growing twice as fast. if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bulbs do not stay down on their own, and float for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              more than a few days, they are not likely to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              viable. most of the time these bulbs will rot. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              have planted more than 50 of these in various tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              taht i have set up for myself and clients---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've had some Aponogeton in my 15 gallon tank (and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > one bulb is in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > daughter's betta tank) for about a month now ... the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > package said they "should grow 6"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to 8" in 15 days". Mine are about 4" inches max.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > They are planted in gravel,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > staggered throughout the aquarium. I buried the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > bulbs in the gravel, because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the package said they'd grow faster that way. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > giving them 12 hours of light
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > per day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > How can I help their growth? Should I invest in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > aquarium plant food tablets
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > or aquarium plant fertilizers? Or are those a waste
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > of money? Do I need to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > switch the kind of bulbs I put in the aquarium hood?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Is 7 bulbs too much for a 15
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > gallon tank with four mollies (two of which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > still tiny) and three platies?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I know these plants get a lot bigger ... for some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > reason my mother's plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > of the same type are growing HUGE. (but then, Mom
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > has always had a green thumb,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > when mine is more brown. *grin*)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > When I've been vacuuming the gravel, I avoid the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > area directly around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > plants so that I don't damage the roots, and was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > thinking that the plants would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > feed on the waste there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > My fish are nibbling the leaves a little, which I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > was expecting. But since I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > removed the plecostamus, there hasn't been any major
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > leaf damage done.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > (Plecostamus is now living in mom's outdoor pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > with some White Cloud Minnows.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > So ... any help on keeping live plants would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > great! Would also appreciate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > recommendations for other plants ... something with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tough leaves preferably,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and easy to care for.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > my LiveJournal
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2600 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              While softening pillows (such as Aquarium Pharmaceutical's) do an excellent job for their price, they do not decrease the total disolved minerals of the aquarium water. They are Ion-Exchange Resins which give up sodium ions (from the common salt or sodium chloride with which they are recharged) in exchange for calcium and magnesium ions, which they absorb. As they do absorb calcium and magnesium. they will make the water softer, as these are the minerals that makes the water hard. Keep in mind they are putting back an equal amount of sodium salt, even though it may be a comparative trace amount of this mineral, and not nearly enough to harm plant growth. It can however, be enough to interfere with the proper development of Discus eggs, since any mineral salts will add to the electrical conductivity of the water, and Discus eggs will not develop properly much above 90 Microsemons. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2601 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You describe the water softening pillows quite well, but fail to give
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cost effective options Ray. While I'm not a big fan of peat or even the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pillows, they are much cheaper than RO or DI water. Other than these,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what other options are there for reducing the mineral content of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water. Are there any chemicals that could be added to a reservoir of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              standing water that would cause the minerals to precipitate out? Man,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm so glad I don't have water that hard ;-).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2602 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Is diluted Phosphoric acid (pH Down) and better than diluted Muriatic acid? While chemically reducing the pH is noteably not the best method to lower the pH, diluted Muriatic acid, unlike diluted Phosphoric acid (pH Down) will keep the pH at whatever you bring it down to and prevent the pH from "bouncing" back up again, which can really harm the fish. Again, it is used sparingly and of course with care when first diluting from the original bottle, and you don't use that much that its going to disolve your fish! The pH should always be brought down gradually, as most of us realize, and preventing it from bouncing is quite important. There are other chemical-less methods to bring down the pH of course, such as using Peat Moss in the filter. This will turn the water a tea color, but charcoal will remove that. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2603 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              BB, As I mentioned, water softener pillows do an excellent job for their price (especially for their price, as they are relatively inexpensive). Except for my Discus, I use them myself in some of my tanks. The only other alternatives that come to mind are R/O (Reverse Osmosis) units and store-bought Diluted water, both of which are expensive, possibly with the Diluted water eventually costing more than an R/O unit in the long run if you are doing a lot of water changing. I was pointing out that, unfortunately so, the water softener pillows will not really decrease the total amount of minerals, but then the minerals you do wind up with are a lot better (water will be softer with little or no calcium or magnesium). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2604 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Before rushing headlong into recommending Muriatic/Hydrochloric acid an a PH adjuster, and even cautioning to use with care, are there directions for diluting that don't require a degree in biochemistry or possibly fruitless research to do so? I remember when dispensing my meagre store of experience to new fish-keepers, that, while thinking I've been thorough, recollect shortcomings quite soon after the "send" button is clicked.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2605 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: live plants help &swordtails/mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 6/20/2004 11:31:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                but i have found the dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                lillies to be really nice too.  they come in the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                type of package, grow a little taller and a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                quicker, and flower at the top of the tank.  they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                available at walmart-


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I saw the dwarf lilies when we bought the Aponogetons. Are they pretty easy to care for, require the same amount of light etc? Would nibbly omnivorous fish (like my mollies and platies) cause a whole lot of damage to them? The aponogetons are holding their own against the nibbling, now that the pleco is out of the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                We're looking into getting a swordtail (to see if it will cross-breed with the red wag platies, which they are supposed to be able to do), and I'm trying to decide if I want to try another Black Molly male (now that the aquarium is well established and salted) or if I want to try maybe a Lyretail. Maybe one of each, since I've got four females. (Well two adult females, and the two youngest of the fry that I *think* are female ... they're still really small so I can't be sure.) Any recommendations? Currently we've got a 15 gallon tall tank with two adult female red wag platies, one red wag platie female fry, two adult "fancy mollies" and two of their fry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2606 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: MOLLIES
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 5/25/04 9:53:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If I was going to try Mollies, I'd definately consider water-hardness.  As far as the little salt to brackish, I don't know of anyone who sells fish that also knows which part of the world that particular Molly came from.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For info on Mollies, check this site.  I thought I had read in TFH years ago the Mollies were caught off the coast of NC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                MOLLIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2607 From: Patrick Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: live plants help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       They have another type of plant bulb that has just recently shown up that replaced the former "dwarf lillies" that show a reddish plant.  I have identified them as red tiger lotus.  I bought 2 packs, and got 3 plants between them.  I figure that is still not much more than just buying the plants if you can find them.  Rarely does a floater sprout.  It took one of them over a month.  I just kept the bulbs in a cup of water until something happened.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i liek the hardy apo too, but i have found the dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  lillies to be really nice too.  they come in the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  type of package, grow a little taller and a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  quicker, and flower at the top of the tank.  they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  available at walmart
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2608 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe, Point well taken; it may not be the best idea to deviate too much from the norm of aquarium maintenance when instructing beginner hobbyists. I guess I was just trying to get across ways to drop the pH without having it bounce, as I know pH Down can do, and that stress is not the best thing for the fish. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2609 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: live plants help &swordtails/mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  yes, the lillies are easy to care for, the leaves grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  on long stems and almost hit the top, so the fish seem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to like to hide in them, more than eat them. i raise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  guppies and mollies in these tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > In a message dated 6/20/2004 11:31:56 AM Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > but i have found the dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > lillies to be really nice too. they come in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > type of package, grow a little taller and a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > quicker, and flower at the top of the tank. they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > available at walmart-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I saw the dwarf lilies when we bought the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Aponogetons. Are they pretty easy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to care for, require the same amount of light etc?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Would nibbly omnivorous fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > (like my mollies and platies) cause a whole lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > damage to them? The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > aponogetons are holding their own against the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > nibbling, now that the pleco is out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > We're looking into getting a swordtail (to see if it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > will cross-breed with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the red wag platies, which they are supposed to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > able to do), and I'm trying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to decide if I want to try another Black Molly male
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > (now that the aquarium is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > well established and salted) or if I want to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > maybe a Lyretail. Maybe one of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > each, since I've got four females. (Well two adult
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > females, and the two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > youngest of the fry that I *think* are female ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > they're still really small so I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > can't be sure.) Any recommendations? Currently we've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > got a 15 gallon tall tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > with two adult female red wag platies, one red wag
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > platie female fry, two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > adult "fancy mollies" and two of their fry.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > my LiveJournal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2610 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to bb as well...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  peat added to your back filter will soften water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  safely, but it has a down side in that it will turn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  your water a tea color. carbon can be used to remove
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the peat color after the water has been softened. as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for ro units, they are really cheap on e bay. you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  get a 6 stage ro/di unit for $100, and it will produce
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  120 gallons per day. i just bought one for my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  personal tank use. di water is great for salt water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tanks, and the ro is not too bad for the fresh---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > BB, As I mentioned, water softener pillows do an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > excellent job for their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > price (especially for their price, as they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > relatively inexpensive). Except for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > my Discus, I use them myself in some of my tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > The only other alternatives
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > that come to mind are R/O (Reverse Osmosis) units
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > and store-bought Diluted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > water, both of which are expensive, possibly with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the Diluted water eventually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > costing more than an R/O unit in the long run if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > are doing a lot of water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > changing. I was pointing out that, unfortunately so,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the water softener pillows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > will not really decrease the total amount of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > minerals, but then the minerals
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > you do wind up with are a lot better (water will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > softer with little or no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > calcium or magnesium). Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2611 From: paul helms Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  if you want the minerals out that bad, boil the atwre
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  with a steam catch (plastic bag) leading the steam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  water to a place to cool as di water. the minerals
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  will be left behind. you can also do this in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  backyard with a small bucket inside a large one with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tarp cover the two in a fashion that the water will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  evaporate and precipitate down the tarp into the outer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bucket, leaving a mineral rich water in the smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  internal bucket and a mineral neutral water in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  larger. the sun is a great tool---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > You describe the water softening pillows quite well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > but fail to give
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > cost effective options Ray. While I'm not a big fan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > of peat or even the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pillows, they are much cheaper than RO or DI water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Other than these,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > what other options are there for reducing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > mineral content of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > water. Are there any chemicals that could be added
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to a reservoir of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > standing water that would cause the minerals to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > precipitate out? Man,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I'm so glad I don't have water that hard ;-).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2612 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 6/20/2004 9:28:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for ro units, they are really cheap on e bay.  you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  get a 6 stage ro/di unit for $100,


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  THAT is really cheap??? AAGH. If I had a much larger tank, I could see the investment of having an RO unit. I just can't justify spending that much on my 15 gallon tank. :(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2613 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just to pop in my two cents here. You need to be very careful when you mess
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  with pH. The best advice is to keep fish that will do well in the pH you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have available.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  When you lower pH, you are fighting against the natural buffering capacity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of the water. Once that buffer is broken, you can find yourself in serious
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  trouble real fast. Once the buffer has been broken, the pH of your water can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  drop faster than a rock to a level that is undesirable on the other side of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the pH scale.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It is, however, less of a problem when you are trying to raise pH. But,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  again, it can be tricky to maintain the desired level of pH once you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  reached it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The pH scale is a logarithmic scale, as someone noted earlier in this thread
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (or a similar one). Moving the pH from 7.0 to 6.9 is a significant drop.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Also noted was that fish can be adversely affected with more than a 0.1 or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  0.2 drop, or rise, in pH over the course of a short period of time. You need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to give your fish time to adjust.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  CO2 will affect your pH. This is why, should you add a supplemental source
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of CO2 for plants in your tank, one must watch the pH as use that as an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  indicator of how much CO2 can safely be added. Also, when enough light is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  not present, plants will give off CO2 as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  pH also has an effect on ammonia toxicity to your fish. Without looking it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  up, I can never remember which way it goes, but it is something that one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  needs to be aware so that the fish are not endangered when playing with pH.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There is a very good book that you may be able to find used (it is now out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of print), called _Fish and Invertebrate Culture, Second Edition_ by Stephen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Spotte. You'll need to have had at least high school chemistry to understand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  it, but it will tell you more about water chemistry than you ever thought
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  existed. I just checked and there are three copies listed on E-bay priced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  from $2-18.50. There are other places on the Internet you can look as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: sevenspringss@... [mailto:sevenspringss@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:39 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Whatever works


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is diluted Phosphoric acid (pH Down) and better than diluted Muriatic acid?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  While chemically reducing the pH is noteably not the best method to lower
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the pH, diluted Muriatic acid, unlike diluted Phosphoric acid (pH Down) will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  keep the pH at whatever you bring it down to and prevent the pH from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "bouncing" back up again, which can really harm the fish. Again, it is used
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  sparingly and of course with care when first diluting from the original
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bottle, and you don't use that much that its going to disolve your fish! The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  pH should always be brought down gradually, as most of us realize, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  preventing it from bouncing is quite important. There are other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  chemical-less methods to bring down the pH of course, such as using Peat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Moss in the filter. This will turn the water a tea color, but charcoal will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  remove that. Ray


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2614 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This whole discussion gets me thinking about WHY the water out in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  SanFransisco Bay area would be that hard. Where does the water come
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  from that it has so much mineral content. The only people in my area to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have such water conditions are those with well water. Just curious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2615 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: MOLLIES
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mollies are also from the Gulf of Mexico as far south as Ecuador and as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  far north as the Carolina's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2616 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Since I no longer carry pH Down at my store, maybe they've changed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  active ingredients, but I thought they used sulfuric acid. It seems to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  me that if you use phosphoric acid, you'd be raising the phosphrous
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  level in the tank and that'd contribute to increased algae.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2617 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 6/21/2004 8:21:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bucks_boogie@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This whole discussion gets me thinking about WHY the water out in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  SanFransisco Bay area would be that hard.  Where does the water come
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  from that it has so much mineral content.  The only people in my area to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have such water conditions are those with well water.  Just curious.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Some comes from Hetch Hetchy reservoir next to Yosemite.  A very large portion of it comes from the Delta, runoff from rivers and streams, rain runoff and snowmelt. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I live in the Bay Area I have moved twice in two years and am on my third different water district.  All three using chloramines, and the Ph is very close among the three.  Two of them taste horrible and one was like bottled water.  My fish seem fine with the Ph but then I have mostly African Cichlids.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2618 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Materia sobre Ampularias, por Eduardo e Yuri.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Excelente matéria,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Abraços,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2619 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: DISCUS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I just returned from the lfs - Petsmart.  Asked, out of curiosity, about Discus.  Was told they don't carry them because they can't get their city water to fit the Discus' requirements.  They have to order fish that have less stringent requirements.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I bought a book on Discus, but in the meantime, can anyone give me a primer, in 25 words or less, on Discus' requirements ?????????????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  QQQQQQQQQQ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2620 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: DISCUS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  General Requirements: Temperature -- maintanence - 82F, breeding - 86F. Hardness -- maintanance - domestic - not too fussy WITHIN REASON (up to 8 DH or so), wild - prefers softer (up to 5 DH); breeding - domestic or wild - 2 DH (or not more than 3 DH) or preferably not much more than 90 microsemons of conductivity. pH -- maintanence - domestic - will tolerate slightly alkaline (up to pH 7.4) water, wild - prefers acid water (pH 6.0 - 6.6); breeding - domestic - best results in acid water, wild - demands acid water. Food -- live or frozen bloodworms, shrimp, glass larvae, mosquito larvae, daphnia, discus flake, paste food w/shrimp, crab, fish, etc. Tank space -- min. 30 gal., preferable at least 50 (or more) gal. per grown pair. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2621 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Whatever works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  BB: I thought that's what you meant in last post on this subject concerning pH Down; that it contained sulfuric acid. I wasn't completely sure myself what pH Down contained until I grabbed a bottle and read it just to make sure. I am reading it again as I type this and it does say "Contains phosphoric acid." right on the back label. As long as its an acid its going to lower the pH, but I would think the same thing -- that it would contribute to algae growth as its one of the three main plant foods, nitrogen (in the form of nitrates), potash and phosphate. By the way, phosphoric acid is one of the ingredients in Cola, and I'm reading that from the back of a soda can that I'm drinking right now. I guess that's why they say it will take the paint off a car!! Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2622 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have a 10 gallon tank and would like to get some fish. I would like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to get as many betta fish as I can in there if I can put more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  one. What other types of fish can I put in with a betta and how many.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I would like to have Guppies and Mollies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2623 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Apparantly several female bettas can share a tank peacefully, given
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  lots of little hidey holes...but only one male betta. There are some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  quite pretty female bettas, expect to pay about thirty dollars each,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  or you can get the regular species females for about four dollars
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  each, but they aren't as pretty. Guppies and mollies I would not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  recommend after a recent experience of our own. Both breed like mad,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  overpopulating the tank before you can blink twice...so unless you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have a place to put the extras, and there WILL be extras, try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  something that isn't so fecund
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2624 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- jess_babs_07 <jess_babs_07@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I have a 10 gallon tank and would like to get some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > fish. I would like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to get as many betta fish as I can in there if I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > put more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > one. What other types of fish can I put in with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > betta and how many.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I would like to have Guppies and Mollies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You cannot have more than one male Betta in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You can have multiple females. Bettas do not do well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  with Guppies because the Guppy's tail can fool the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Betta into thinking it is another Betta which can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  result in an attack.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2625 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  you can have one male with several females though...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On Jun 21, 2004, at 6:30 PM, Todd Fields wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- jess_babs_07 <jess_babs_07@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I have a 10 gallon tank and would like to get some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > fish. I would like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > to get as many betta fish as I can in there if I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > put more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > one. What other types of fish can I put in with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > betta and how many.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I would like to have Guppies and Mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > You cannot have more than one male Betta in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > You can have multiple females.  Bettas do not do well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > with Guppies because the Guppy's tail can fool the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Betta into thinking it is another Betta which can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > result in an attack.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >            
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2626 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Almathea,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Your emails' are arriving at Comcast as attachments, and I can't open them in Comcast ( my ISP ). They'll open in Outlook Express, but I don't want anything there that I have'nt cleared in Comcast. So I don't know what your plea refers to?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2627 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i didn't send you anything at all. no plea and no attachments.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 21, 2004, at 8:47 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Almathea,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >    Your emails' are arriving at Comcast as attachments, and I can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > open them in Comcast ( my ISP ). They'll open in Outlook Express, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I don't want anything there that I have'nt cleared in Comcast. So I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > don't know what your plea refers to?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >                            Joe Pascavage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > From: amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Date: June 21, 2004 8:00:30 PM EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > you can have one male with several females though...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > On Jun 21, 2004, at 6:30 PM, Todd Fields wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> --- jess_babs_07 <jess_babs_07@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> > I have a 10 gallon tank and would like to get some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> > fish. I would like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> > to get as many betta fish as I can in there if I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> > put more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> > one. What other types of fish can I put in with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> > betta and how many.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> > I would like to have Guppies and Mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> You cannot have more than one male Betta in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> You can have multiple females.  Bettas do not do well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> with Guppies because the Guppy's tail can fool the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> Betta into thinking it is another Betta which can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> result in an attack.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >>      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >>            
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2628 From: paul helms Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the betta is likely to fight with anything that has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    long fins, so guppies are not a great idea. as far as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    putting a male with several females....NOT A GOOD IDEA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    IN A 10 GALLON TANK. unless you are an experienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    breeder. you can put as many females as you want, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i would not recomend a male and any number of females
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in that small of a tank--- Todd Fields
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <jtfields91@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- jess_babs_07 <jess_babs_07@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I have a 10 gallon tank and would like to get some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > fish. I would like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > to get as many betta fish as I can in there if I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > put more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > one. What other types of fish can I put in with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > betta and how many.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I would like to have Guppies and Mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > You cannot have more than one male Betta in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > You can have multiple females. Bettas do not do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with Guppies because the Guppy's tail can fool the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Betta into thinking it is another Betta which can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > result in an attack.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2629 From: paul helms Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: DISCUS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    82-85 degree soft water with a ph of 5-6. well planted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank. low current, no aggressive fish.---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    DB1RDMAN@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I just returned from the lfs - Petsmart. Asked, out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of curiosity, about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Discus. Was told they don't carry them because they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > can't get their city water to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fit the Discus' requirements. They have to order
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish that have less
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > stringent requirements.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I bought a book on Discus, but in the meantime, can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > anyone give me a primer,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in 25 words or less, on Discus' requirements
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ?????????????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > QQQQQQQQQQ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2630 From: paul helms Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ph is not that big of a concern as long as it is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    way off. it is only really a concern when acclimating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (as long as it is not off by more than 2 or so)---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > In a message dated 6/21/2004 8:21:44 AM Pacific
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > bucks_boogie@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > This whole discussion gets me thinking about WHY
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the water out in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > SanFransisco Bay area would be that hard. Where
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > does the water come
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > from that it has so much mineral content. The only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > people in my area to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have such water conditions are those with well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > water. Just curious.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Some comes from Hetch Hetchy reservoir next to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yosemite. A very large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > portion of it comes from the Delta, runoff from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > rivers and streams, rain runoff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and snowmelt.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I live in the Bay Area I have moved twice in two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > years and am on my third
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > different water district. All three using
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > chloramines, and the Ph is very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > close among the three. Two of them taste horrible
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and one was like bottled
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > water. My fish seem fine with the Ph but then I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have mostly African Cichlids.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2631 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Almathea,  (OR ALMATHEA23),
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The 'subject-line' in the email message directed to the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquariumGroup was not directed to ME, (Joe Pascavage), it was directed at the group. I replied because emails ostensibly coming from you were arriving as attachments (which I almost never allow into Outlook Express, and the last one had "PLEASE ANSWER ASAP",  so I did, but I did not open the attachment. You may be using something that travels as an attachment ( like stationary, or pre-format something-or-other). In any event, I thought it could be you were wondering why no-one was responding to your emails (which may not have been happening, because other ISP's don't  codify your email the way COMCAST does), and were sending a test message.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    JP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 8:55 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Please answer ASAP

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i didn't send you anything at all. no plea and no attachments.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 21, 2004, at 8:47 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Almathea,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Your emails' are arriving at Comcast as attachments, and I can't open them in Comcast ( my ISP ). They'll open in Outlook Express, but I don't want anything there that I have'nt cleared in Comcast. So I don't know what your plea refers to?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Joe Pascavage






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea23 <amalthea23@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: June 21, 2004 8:00:30 PM EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Please answer ASAP


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you can have one male with several females though...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 21, 2004, at 6:30 PM, Todd Fields wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- jess_babs_07 <jess_babs_07@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have a 10 gallon tank and would like to get some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish. I would like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to get as many betta fish as I can in there if I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > put more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > one. What other types of fish can I put in with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > betta and how many.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I would like to have Guppies and Mollies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You cannot have more than one male Betta in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can have multiple females.  Bettas do not do well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with Guppies because the Guppy's tail can fool the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Betta into thinking it is another Betta which can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    result in an attack.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2632 From: Patrick Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I had a male and 3 females.  They never had problems in my 29 gallon, but I never tried a male and 3 females in a 10 gallon.  I would think the best tetras would be cardinal or glolight-shaped.  The black skirt-shaped seem to be accused of fin nipping.  I have never seen this in the cardinal-shaped ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2633 From: keith94112 Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi all! I'm Keith. I got an aquarium and set it up over the weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Over 20 years ago, before I left NY, we had a 30 gallon aquarium. So
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I kind of remember the standard aquarium stuff. I'm starting out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      with a 12 gallon aquarium again. Have a few, probably stupid,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      questions, but hope someone can help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I remember all of my old neon tetras and black mollies. Will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      probably start there again. I noticed at the pet store that there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      were betas in the tanks with some of the other species. I hadn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      seen that before. A beta would be nice, but don't they have special
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      diets? Do they survive on regular tropical fish food and is it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      good idea to put them a tank with other fish? (I remember the black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mollies as being particular productive and don't want to be supplying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a beta with live bait...)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Here's the worst question... How many fish can reasonably live in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      12 gallon tank? Promise I won't start out with a school of 100 neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tetras, but would 5 neons, a bottom cat, 2 mollies and something the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      size of a beta be too much?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Any recommendations for pet shops in the San Francisco area?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If I do get a beta, should I introduce it to the tank first, or after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the other fish. I don't plan to populate the tank until sometime
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      next week.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Wondering if I should stay away from the betas? The flow in a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      12 gallon tank seems more intense than I remember the 30 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      being. Betas don't strike me as being constant upstream swimmers...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Any tips would be appreciated. Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2634 From: Patrick Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            A betta would be fine with mollies and neons.  They don't like a lot of movement, maybe you could adjust the filter to not be so fast?  If not, go with a female betta, since they aren't moved by current as much.  A betta would also be good to get through the cycle, and neons should not be used during the cycle because they are not as hardy as they used to be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What is a bottom cat?  Plecos shouldn't be in a 12 gallon (I don't even think the smaller 6" plecos should be, but there are some that stay at 3", but they are rare).  Cories like groups.  Ottos don't count on the bioload because they do more good than bad, so you could get a couple of those if you ever need them.  5 neons and 2 mollies would be fine.  Don't worry about the betta eating molly fry, the adult mollies will probably get them first.  Make sure you add the fish slowly over several months.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi all! I'm Keith. I got an aquarium and set it up over the weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Over 20 years ago, before I left NY, we had a 30 gallon aquarium. So
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I kind of remember the standard aquarium stuff.  I'm starting out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        with a 12 gallon aquarium again.  Have a few, probably stupid,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        questions, but hope someone can help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I remember all of my old neon tetras and black mollies.  Will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        probably start there again.  I noticed at the pet store that there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        were betas in the tanks with some of the other species.  I hadn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        seen that before.  A beta would be nice, but don't they have special
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        diets?  Do they survive on regular tropical fish food and is it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        good idea to put them a tank with other fish?  (I remember the black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mollies as being particular productive and don't want to be supplying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        a beta with live bait...)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Here's the worst question... How many fish can reasonably live in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        12 gallon tank?  Promise I won't start out with a school of 100 neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tetras, but would 5 neons, a bottom cat, 2 mollies and something the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        size of a beta be too much?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Any recommendations for pet shops in the San Francisco area?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If I do get a beta, should I introduce it to the tank first, or after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the other fish.  I don't plan to populate the tank until sometime
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        next week. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Wondering if I should stay away from the betas?  The flow in a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        12 gallon tank seems more intense than I remember the 30 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        being. Betas don't strike me as being constant upstream swimmers...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Any tips would be appreciated.  Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2635 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > long fins, so guppies are not a great idea. as far
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > putting a male with several females....NOT A GOOD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > IDEA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > IN A 10 GALLON TANK. unless you are an experienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > breeder. you can put as many females as you want,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is correct and I was not advocating such. One
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        male Betta is fine. Several female Bettas are fine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But do not mix especially in a tank that small. Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        if you were trying to breed the Bettas you would want
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        to separate the male and female in the tank until they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "got to know each other."



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2636 From: paul helms Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hey keith,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i work at a pet store in the east bay (livermore)and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        have been a hobbiest locally for 15 years or so. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        beta will do just fine in the tank with the filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that you have. contrary to popular belief, they do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        love to swim. if the current is too storng, they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        find areas they like, but i have had no problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        running tanks with fluval 404's and powerheads with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        betas, they do like to be active, they just don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        require it. i have them schooling with gourami in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        many of my customers tanks. as for stocking, you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        could start with the beta early on, but i would wait
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        4-6 weeks before beginning to really stock it. after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the nitrogen cycle has been established you want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        add slowly to let the biological aspects of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        filtration grow with the demand upon it. the general
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        rule of thumb is 1 inch of fish per gallon, but the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        better your filtration and the more peaceful the fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the more you can cheat that number. stress zyme has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        been really effective in aiding the filtration while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stocking for me. it is live nitrifying bacteria. one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        last thing, make sure that you have a good clean up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        crew. cori cats do very well. they like groups of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        three but do fine just about any way you do it. you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        can always trade in a common pleco if it gets too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        large, and they are cheap. if you want to come out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        this far i would be happy to help you along.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        paul --- keith94112 <keith@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Hi all! I'm Keith. I got an aquarium and set it up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > over the weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Over 20 years ago, before I left NY, we had a 30
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > gallon aquarium. So
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I kind of remember the standard aquarium stuff. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > starting out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > with a 12 gallon aquarium again. Have a few,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > probably stupid,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > questions, but hope someone can help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I remember all of my old neon tetras and black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > mollies. Will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > probably start there again. I noticed at the pet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > store that there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > were betas in the tanks with some of the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > species. I hadn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > seen that before. A beta would be nice, but don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they have special
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > diets? Do they survive on regular tropical fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > food and is it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > good idea to put them a tank with other fish? (I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > remember the black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > mollies as being particular productive and don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > want to be supplying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > a beta with live bait...)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Here's the worst question... How many fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reasonably live in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 12 gallon tank? Promise I won't start out with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > school of 100 neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tetras, but would 5 neons, a bottom cat, 2 mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and something the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > size of a beta be too much?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Any recommendations for pet shops in the San
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Francisco area?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > If I do get a beta, should I introduce it to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank first, or after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the other fish. I don't plan to populate the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > until sometime
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > next week.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Wondering if I should stay away from the betas? The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > flow in a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 12 gallon tank seems more intense than I remember
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the 30 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > being. Betas don't strike me as being constant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > upstream swimmers...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Any tips would be appreciated. Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2637 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- keith94112 <keith@...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > probably start there again. I noticed at the pet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > store that there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > were betas in the tanks with some of the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > species. I hadn't

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Bettas are usually fine with other fish except fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        with tails that it might mistake for other Bettas.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Actually, because the Betta stands out so much with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        its flowing tail and because it is a relatively slow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        swimmer it is often picked on by other fish. Be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        careful that you don't mix it with any "tail nippers".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > seen that before. A beta would be nice, but don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they have special
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > diets? Do they survive on regular tropical fish

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        They love forzen or freezedried blood worms. There
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        are also Betta pellets and flakes I had success with.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You might want to check out BettaTalk.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Here's the worst question... How many fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reasonably live in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 12 gallon tank? Promise I won't start out with a

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Doesn't sound like too much to me but I'll defer to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the experts here. I have five neons, an otocinclus, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        kulii loach, an African Dwarf Frog, a snail and ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        shrimp in a three gallon aquarium without problems so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I can't imagine you would with that mix in a twelve.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > If I do get a beta, should I introduce it to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank first, or after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the other fish. I don't plan to populate the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > until sometime
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > next week.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I would be surprised if the order mattered. By the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        way, you don't want to introduce all of those fish at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        once. You need to cycle the tank with one or two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish. The Betta is a good candidate because it is so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hardy (I used my frog to cycle my small tank.) Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        after its cycled I think you need to slowly introduce
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the remaining fish. Again I defer to the experts on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the list.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Wondering if I should stay away from the betas? The

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Unless it is an unusually high flow I bet the Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        will be fine.



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2638 From: Aaron Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: LFS in SF (was-> new to the group - with boring newbie question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <keith@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ...Any recommendations for pet shops in the San Francisco area?...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Any tips would be appreciated. Keith

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Keith,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        There is a folder in the Links section on the Group Home Page,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/links

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that is set up just for "recommendations for pet shops", it is called

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        L F S
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Local Fish Stores ~ post links, phone #'s, address and info of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        favorite lfs ~ Sorted into folders by Country, State/Provinince,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Region, County, City, etc...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        follow the links to the folder:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        U S A
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        United States of America

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        then click on the folder:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        California

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and finally the folder titled:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Greater San Francisco Bay Area
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        including: Oakland, San Jose, Livermore, Brentwood, Fremont, etc...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        there you will see that I live in the East Bay and have visited many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stores here, but I have not yet been to any in the City.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you find stores you like, please add them to the list.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2639 From: Aaron Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Kieth,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Please do not tell anybody about this, I would not normally admit to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it, but just between you and me - I have something like over 50 fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        , 3 shrimp and dozens of snails in my 12 gallon right now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Its not as bad as it first sounds & I do not recommend trying it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It is an Eclipse System 12 with built in filtration and Bio-Wheel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It is moderately planted w/ a wide variety of plants (which is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        amazing in itself since it only has a 13watt compact flourescent or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        about 1w/g). I use an undergravel filter (UGF) from a smaller 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        gallon tank and a self rotating power head (ZooMed PS-20 @ 160 gph).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        On hot days I run an Air Pump w/ air stone down into the base by the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        up take tube and it creates really tiny bubbles. The substrate is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Flora Base by Red Sea and specially designed to be used for live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        plants w/ an UGF.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I change about 2 gallons daily as I am setting up a 55 and a 40gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        to move the fish into.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Here is my Aquatic Life inventory from MS Excel:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Description COUNT Fry born

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Betta 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Goby - Bumble Bee 1 10 21-Jun
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Guppie - 2 Female / 1 Male 3 3 12-Jun
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Loach - Clown 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Molly - Black ~ Male 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Molly - Marble 1 2 6-Jun
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Molly - Silver ~ 1 F / 1 M 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Molly, Lyretail - White ~ 1 F / 1 M 2 2 5-Jun
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Otocinculus 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Platy - Red ~ Mickey Mouse 1 5-Apr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Platy - Red ~ Male 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Platy - Sunset Fire ~ male 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Pleco, Clown 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Shrimp, Amano 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Swordtail - Marigold 21 1-May
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Swordtail - Green (Silver) 1 F/ 1 M 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Swordtail - Red ~ M 1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        TOTALs adults 25 fry 39 GrandTtl 64

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        as you may be able to decipher, most are really young fry and do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        take up much space, yet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        its funny you mention - "a school of 100 neon tetras", thats exactly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        my plan for the 55 when it cycles, or maybe just 100 Cardinals, or 50
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        of each.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Water Quality is EVERTHING.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Keep it highly maintained and you can test the limits of "How many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish can reasonably live in a 12 gallon tank"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Aaron

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "keith94112"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <keith@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ...Here's the worst question... How many fish can reasonably live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 12 gallon tank? Promise I won't start out with a school of 100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tetras, but would 5 neons, a bottom cat, 2 mollies and something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > size of a beta be too much?...Any tips would be appreciated. Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2640 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >A beta would be nice, but don't they have special
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > diets? Do they survive on regular tropical fish food and is it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > good idea to put them a tank with other fish? (I remember the black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > mollies as being particular productive and don't want to be supplying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > a beta with live bait...)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I've been keeping bettas off & on for over 20 years, all of mine have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fed a mixed diet of betta bites, tropical flake, and freeze-dried
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        bloodworms.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have never had luck keeping a male betta in a community tank. I tried with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        a number of males but always ended up with problems between them and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        other fish. But it has worked for many people, it's just the individual
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        temperament of the fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Here's the worst question... How many fish can reasonably live in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 12 gallon tank? Promise I won't start out with a school of 100 neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tetras, but would 5 neons, a bottom cat, 2 mollies and something the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > size of a beta be too much?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I tend to overstock, your list doesn't sound too bad. Being a new tank I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wouldn't add everything at once...test the water often and do frequent water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        changes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Wondering if I should stay away from the betas? The flow in a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 12 gallon tank seems more intense than I remember the 30 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > being. Betas don't strike me as being constant upstream swimmers...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Again I think it depends on the individual betta, but in general you will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        read that bettas don't like much current. Makes it difficult for them to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        swim with those long fins.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2641 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You could keep a few females OR a single male. More than one male or a mix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        of males & females means trouble in a tank that size.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As far as other fish I've not had luck with male bettas in community tanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        so all I'd recommend would be a small school of cories. Bettas will more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        than likely nip at anything like the tails of guppies.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have a 10 gallon tank and would like to get some fish. I would like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > to get as many betta fish as I can in there if I can put more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > one. What other types of fish can I put in with a betta and how many.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I would like to have Guppies and Mollies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2642 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I guess it depends what you mean by 'pretty females'. Two of my females are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        as highly colored as males, one is a cambodian delta/roundtail mix, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        other a doubletail. They were purchased at a lfs for less than $5 each. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        also have a juvenile doubletail that I bought at a fish auction for $2.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Keeping females together, especially in a small tank, can be tricky. A lot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        depends on whether they were kept in community tanks previously or in cups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In general, one female will establish herself as the dominant fish. It's not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        always peaceful and they can be quite agressive, like the males.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Apparantly several female bettas can share a tank peacefully, given
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > lots of little hidey holes...but only one male betta. There are some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > quite pretty female bettas, expect to pay about thirty dollars each,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > or you can get the regular species females for about four dollars
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > each, but they aren't as pretty. Guppies and mollies I would not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > recommend after a recent experience of our own. Both breed like mad,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > overpopulating the tank before you can blink twice...so unless you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > have a place to put the extras, and there WILL be extras, try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > something that isn't so fecund
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2643 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Jessica, It appears that you are not aware of the natural pugnacious attitude male Bettas have towards one another; this is why they are also called Siamese Fighting Fish. For this reason, you cannot put more than one male Betta in your tank. You may put as many (within reason - without overcrowding) female Bettas in your tank as you want. If you have female Bettas, do not put a male Betta in the same tank. He will eventually be in condition to spawn (and will make a bubble nest indicating this), and if there are no females ready to spawn with him, he will chase them and tear up their fins. If one female does spawn with him, he will again chase all the females very shortly after spawning, tearing them up, in guarding his nest. Mollies, Swordtails medium Tetras and Barbs (not Tiger Barbs - they'll tear his fins up) would be good tankmates. Do not put in any slow moving fish like small angelfish. I seen Bettas swim up to them and take their eyes out. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2644 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 6/21/2004 6:47:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Guppies and mollies I would not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        recommend after a recent experience of our own.  Both breed like mad,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        overpopulating the tank before you can blink twice...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Or, just don't get any males. You'll more than likely still have at least a few babies born because most mollie females are already pregnant when you buy them, but elementary schools are great places to go to give away the babies once they are big enough. (They're great for teaching kids!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I lucked out, there is a local store here that has been in business 25 years or so, and I take all my babies there. I've had my last fry born about two months ago I think, and I don't currently have any males in my tank. (Although I'm looking to get some males.) If you go the petstore route, don't even bother asking at large chain stores like PetSmart. They won't take the babies. But if there are smaller, locally owned and operated stores in your area, chances are that at least one of them might be willing to take the babies off your hands. Some store owners offer store credit for bringing in fish fry, but the one I take mine too doesn't. I just get the peace of mind knowing that my tank isn't overpopulated and the fish won't eat each other.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I actually prefer my mollies to any other type of fish. They're what I started with, and I wouldn't change anything now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2645 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: high pH and salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To clarify, you no doubt mean .2 (point 2) of course, rather than 2, with pH changes. (Just so some beginners don't get the wrong idea.) SS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2646 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Keith, Since as you say, you just set the tank up over this past weekend, I would not be ready to put fish in it as early as next week, but would wait at least three more weeks for the tank to "cycle". If you're really in a hurry (and you shouldn't be) you could introduce no more than a couple of hardy fish, but keep in mind, the higher the fish load -- the higher the ammonia will spike at this time, and no matter what kind of fish you put in there now, Betta included, a higher ammonia accumulation can burn their gill membranes. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2647 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 6/22/2004 12:16:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, americanfishguy@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Don't worry about the betta eating molly fry, the adult mollies will probably get them first. 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I disagree. The only fish I had that ate my mollie fry were the PLATIES, and the older mollie fry that were born the month previous. The adult mollies never touched the newborn fry. Besides, providing plenty of hiding places (dense plants, and maybe some of those glass baubles you can find in the aquarium decor section) will prevent the majority of the fry from being eaten.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2648 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 6/21/2004 11:46:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, keith@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Do they survive on regular tropical fish food and is it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        good idea to put them a tank with other fish?  (I remember the black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mollies as being particular productive and don't want to be supplying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        a beta with live bait...)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Here's the worst question... How many fish can reasonably live in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        12 gallon tank?  ** snip ** but would 5 neons, a bottom cat, 2 mollies and something the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        size of a beta be too much?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Bettas are carnivores. My daughter's betta eats four "betta bites" pellets, twice a day, supplemented by Freeze-Dried Bloodworms twice a week instead of the betta bites. However, a betta should get along no problem with livebearers ... and if you provide enough hiding places (lots of plants), the fry should be able to keep from being eaten.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mollies are schooling fish, and two mollies is really not enough for them to be happy. Four is a better minimum number. If you go with black mollies (again), remember that because they've been bred so long to get that stunning coloring, they're rather susceptible to fungus and bacterial maladies. (I learned that the hard way.) I no longer have that problem with my mollies, since I started adding 1 tablespoon aquarium salt per 5 gallons water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        An oto might be a good idea, if you are looking for something for algae control. I personally think it's unfair to expect a fish to survive merely by eating the waste of the other fish ... would *you* like to take your meals out of your toilet? Probably not. A better investment would be an oto (who are smaller than plecostamus) and a good gravel vacuum. If you go for an oto for algae control instead of a pleco, you have more room available in the tank for your fish ... so maybe increase the mollies you finally end up with to four. (In fact, I recently gave my plecostamus to my mother for her pond, because he got too big for my 15 gallon tank ... and now I'm looking into getting an oto.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Since you've had a tank before, remember to gradually increase the population of your tank. For example, start with the neons ... give them a couple of weeks to get comfortable and for the tank to adjust to the biological load. Then add the oto, maybe. Wait a week or so, then the mollies. Etc etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you want black mollies, your best bet is to let the tank completely cycle before you add even one fish ... mollies are very particular about their water. I lost all of my original black mollies because I mistakenly got them as my FIRST fish, thinking they'd survive the cycling process. Oops. Now I've got four "Fancy Mollies", which are hardier than the blacks, and striking in their own unique way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Good luck and let us know what you decide to go with!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2649 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Since as you say, you just set the tank up over this past weekend, I would not be ready to put fish in it as early as next week, but would wait at least three more weeks for the tank to 'cycle'." - Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The cycle will not start at all until there is a source of ammonia.  You could, in theory, wait for twenty years with no nitrogen buildup in the tank.  Bettas do fine with cycling tanks.  I personally don't like the idea of fishless cycles because they rely too much on the human and not enough on natural events.  Also, in 3 more weeks, if it were fishless cycling, it might be in the middle of a huge nitrite spike!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2650 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- Witchywmn42@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Or, just don't get any males. You'll more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > likely still have at least a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > few babies born because most mollie females are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > already pregnant when you buy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > them, but elementary schools are great places to go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > to give away the babies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > once they are big enough. (They're great for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > teaching kids!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm sure the parents of these kids really appreciate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          it when their kid comes home with a new pet to care
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          for too. :)



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2651 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Keith, Since as you say, you just set the tank up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > over this past weekend, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > would not be ready to put fish in it as early as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > next week, but would wait at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > least three more weeks for the tank to "cycle". If

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well he has to have something in there to cycle the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank doesn't he? One or two fish.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2652 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          what does everyone mean by a cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2653 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cylce means nitrogen cycle. it is the process in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          which you give the tank time to establish its own
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          beneficial bacteria that pushes ammonia through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          notirogen cycle so that the fish do not die. amonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and its components are deadly to fish when in high
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          concentrations. ammonia comes from excess food, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          excrement and urine, as well as anything that dies in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the tank. it is also present in tap and well water in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          several forms. the bacteria converts amonia to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nitrite. another bacteria converts nitirte to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nitrate. yet another bacteria converts the nitrate to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nitrogen gas which will exit your aquarium as gas.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          any of these stages in high doses are toxic. try to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          keep amonia and nitrite as close to 0 as possible, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nitrate below 70ppm. it takes 3 1/2 to 4 weeks for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the bacteria to really take off and grow rapidly. at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          this tiome there will be a high amount of amonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          present. when you detect this "spike" of amonia,at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3/12 to 4 weeks, your cycle is nearing completion and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          will take another 1 to 2 weeks to be ready to begin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          slowly stocking your tank. if you truely let your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank cycle and do not over feed, there is a lot loss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          work involved to keep the tank healthy. there is no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          point in testing the water before 3 weeks, and always
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          make sure to wait at least for to ensure that you did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          not test previous to the spike. --- jess_babs_07
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <jess_babs_07@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > what does everyone mean by a cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2654 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that is definatelty one school of thought. i am not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          saying that you are right or wrong, but i have set up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          more than 50 tanks for friends and customers using the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "fishless" cycle. it has had far greater success than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          using fish. the tanks seem to stay healthier as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          biolgic filter has had more time to set tiself up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          without trying to keep up with fish that it is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ready for.--- Patrick <americanfishguy@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > "Since as you say, you just set the tank up over
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > this past weekend, I would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > not be ready to put fish in it as early as next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > week, but would wait at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > least three more weeks for the tank to 'cycle'." -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The cycle will not start at all until there is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > source of ammonia. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > could, in theory, wait for twenty years with no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > nitrogen buildup in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Bettas do fine with cycling tanks. I personally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > don't like the idea of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fishless cycles because they rely too much on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > human and not enough on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > natural events. Also, in 3 more weeks, if it were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fishless cycling, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > might be in the middle of a huge nitrite spike!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > inexperienced fish keepers!




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2655 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bettas are not carnivores specifically. they do have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a solid jaw structure and actually chew their foods,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but they do not eat other fish for the sake of eating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          other fish. in fact i have never seen a betta eating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a dead fish. they live in extremely murky water and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          are not used to seeing other fish. that is why they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          are territorial. they eat standard flake food just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fine. my clients have kept them alive in tanks with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          other fish, eating nothing but tetra min flake for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          over 6 years. --- Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > In a message dated 6/21/2004 11:46:30 PM Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > keith@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Do they survive on regular tropical fish food and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > is it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > good idea to put them a tank with other fish? (I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > remember the black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > mollies as being particular productive and don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > want to be supplying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > a beta with live bait...)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Here's the worst question... How many fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > reasonably live in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > 12 gallon tank? ** snip ** but would 5 neons, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bottom cat, 2 mollies and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > something the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > size of a beta be too much?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Bettas are carnivores. My daughter's betta eats four
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > "betta bites" pellets,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > twice a day, supplemented by Freeze-Dried Bloodworms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > twice a week instead of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the betta bites. However, a betta should get along
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > no problem with livebearers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > .... and if you provide enough hiding places (lots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of plants), the fry should be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > able to keep from being eaten.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Mollies are schooling fish, and two mollies is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > really not enough for them to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > be happy. Four is a better minimum number. If you go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with black mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (again), remember that because they've been bred so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > long to get that stunning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > coloring, they're rather susceptible to fungus and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bacterial maladies. (I learned
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > that the hard way.) I no longer have that problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with my mollies, since I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > started adding 1 tablespoon aquarium salt per 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gallons water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > An oto might be a good idea, if you are looking for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > something for algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > control. I personally think it's unfair to expect a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish to survive merely by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > eating the waste of the other fish ... would *you*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > like to take your meals out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > your toilet? Probably not. A better investment would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > be an oto (who are smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > than plecostamus) and a good gravel vacuum. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > go for an oto for algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > control instead of a pleco, you have more room
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > available in the tank for your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish ... so maybe increase the mollies you finally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > end up with to four. (In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fact, I recently gave my plecostamus to my mother
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > for her pond, because he got too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > big for my 15 gallon tank ... and now I'm looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > into getting an oto.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Since you've had a tank before, remember to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gradually increase the population
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of your tank. For example, start with the neons ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > give them a couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > weeks to get comfortable and for the tank to adjust
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > to the biological load. Then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > add the oto, maybe. Wait a week or so, then the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > mollies. Etc etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > If you want black mollies, your best bet is to let
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the tank completely cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > before you add even one fish ... mollies are very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > particular about their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > water. I lost all of my original black mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > because I mistakenly got them as my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > FIRST fish, thinking they'd survive the cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > process. Oops. Now I've got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > four "Fancy Mollies", which are hardier than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > blacks, and striking in their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > own unique way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Good luck and let us know what you decide to go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > my LiveJournal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2656 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bettas breathe atmospheric oxygen, not through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          gills. this is why they have such a greater chance of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          living through a cycle. the ammonia does not affect
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          thei breathing, but can still poison them through
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          their bodies uptake of water.---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Keith, Since as you say, you just set the tank up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > over this past weekend, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > would not be ready to put fish in it as early as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > next week, but would wait at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > least three more weeks for the tank to "cycle". If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > you're really in a hurry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (and you shouldn't be) you could introduce no more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > than a couple of hardy fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > but keep in mind, the higher the fish load -- the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > higher the ammonia will spike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > at this time, and no matter what kind of fish you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > put in there now, Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > included, a higher ammonia accumulation can burn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > their gill membranes. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2657 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          actually no, i did not mean .2. i am not talking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          about a sudden change of ph. i am talking about the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ph being as low as 5 or as high as 9. is not a big
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          deal to the fish as long as it is not rapidly changed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a difference of 2 on the ph scale should not be enough
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          to hram the fish on the acidd or base side. of course
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          it is best to keep them in their pefered zones, but ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i s not really the aspect to worry about. wory about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ammoonia, nitrite and nitrate first.---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Keith, Since as you say, you just set the tank up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > over this past weekend, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > would not be ready to put fish in it as early as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > next week, but would wait at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > least three more weeks for the tank to "cycle". If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > you're really in a hurry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (and you shouldn't be) you could introduce no more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > than a couple of hardy fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > but keep in mind, the higher the fish load -- the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > higher the ammonia will spike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > at this time, and no matter what kind of fish you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > put in there now, Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > included, a higher ammonia accumulation can burn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > their gill membranes. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2658 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Todd, You're right on the money; he has to have a couple of fish in there to help cycle the tank. That is why I suggested this in my very next sentence. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2659 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Paul, It appears that you are an advocate of "fish-less" cycles. I don't quite understand why you included part of my reply, except possibly to let Patrick see that you aren't the only one who thinks this way. I did mention to Keith that I think he should wait at least another three weeks before introducing fish. As Keith does seem a little "itchy" to get fish in there by his remark of "I don't plan to populate the tank until next week", I did mention he might add a couple of hardy fish; they should also be inexpensive as they may succumb to ammonia poisoning (Keith -- please do not rush things). Many beginning aquarists give in to this temptation. It is generally recommended not to add any fish until after the tank cycles. While it is known that this cycle will take from 4 to 6 weeks, the cycle can be completed in 4 weeks. Much has to do with the temperature (raise the temperature for a faster cycle). If you already have an established aquarium, transfer some of that filter medium to the new tank's filter if possible. Otherwise, add some protein (food) to start the cycle. There are products on the market (bacteria???), to help jump start this cycle, most of which are worthless. There is one company (Enviro-Reps) whose liquid product does work. As far as spiking: the ammonia will spike first in the cycle at a little over 7 days. During the next 3 days,  it will drop down to about 2/3 of the high level and remain there for another 4 days after which time it will start tapering off. The nitrite level will spike at around 2 1/2 weeks into the cycle and start tapering from there. This is pretty much the picture of the cycle, in general. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2660 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Would like to add to/clarify this last statement; he needs SOMETHING in there to help start the cycle. It could be fish (cheap fish) which may or may not survive, or it could be fish food or some other type of protein which will start breaking down in the presence of aerobic bacteria (Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacters). A "culture" taken from an established filter would also be a help. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2661 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: AquaSafe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you should wait for the cycle to finish then what is the point of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          TetraAqua's AquaSafe.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2662 From: Jolena Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- Witchywmn42@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Or, just don't get any males. You'll more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > likely still have at least a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > few babies born because most mollie females are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > already pregnant when you buy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > them, but elementary schools are great places to go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to give away the babies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > once they are big enough. (They're great for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > teaching kids!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm sure the parents of these kids really appreciate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it when their kid comes home with a new pet to care
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for too.  :)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2663 From: Seti Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: AquaSafe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            AquaSafe has nothing to do with biological filtration, it is something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you add to the water to remove chlorine and chloramine; you should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            treat tap water with it every time you do water changes, before adding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it to the tank. "Cycling" refers to establishing a colony of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            beneficial bacteria which would convert toxic ammonia into (still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            toxic) nitrites and then the less toxic nitrates. You need to have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            this biological filtration for the aquarium to "function". Check this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            site, it explains water chemistry and cycling in fairly simple terms:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://faq.thekrib.com/begin.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~~Seti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "jess_babs_07"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <jess_babs_07@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > If you should wait for the cycle to finish then what is the point of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > TetraAqua's AquaSafe.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2664 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            go aaron go!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aaron has got the exact right idea. he is experienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and knows that the better your filtration is, the more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it can be stocked. he has the perfect combination
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            with the biowheel and the undergravel filter. he is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            doubled up on biologic and mechanical filtration. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            plants are also another biologic filtration, so i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            guess he is really tripled up. he has good current,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            excellent aeration, and excellent filtration--- Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <massagetherapist@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hi Kieth,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Please do not tell anybody about this, I would not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > normally admit to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > it, but just between you and me - I have something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > like over 50 fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > , 3 shrimp and dozens of snails in my 12 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > right now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Its not as bad as it first sounds & I do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > recommend trying it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > It is an Eclipse System 12 with built in filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and Bio-Wheel.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > It is moderately planted w/ a wide variety of plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > (which is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > amazing in itself since it only has a 13watt compact
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > flourescent or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > about 1w/g). I use an undergravel filter (UGF) from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a smaller 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gallon tank and a self rotating power head (ZooMed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > PS-20 @ 160 gph).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > On hot days I run an Air Pump w/ air stone down into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the base by the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > up take tube and it creates really tiny bubbles. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > substrate is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Flora Base by Red Sea and specially designed to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > used for live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > plants w/ an UGF.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I change about 2 gallons daily as I am setting up a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 55 and a 40gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to move the fish into.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Here is my Aquatic Life inventory from MS Excel:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Description COUNT Fry born
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Betta 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Goby - Bumble Bee 1 10 21-Jun
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Guppie - 2 Female / 1 Male 3 3 12-Jun
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Loach - Clown 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Molly - Black ~ Male 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Molly - Marble 1 2 6-Jun
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Molly - Silver ~ 1 F / 1 M 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Molly, Lyretail - White ~ 1 F / 1 M 2 2 5-Jun
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Otocinculus 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Platy - Red ~ Mickey Mouse 1 5-Apr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Platy - Red ~ Male 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Platy - Sunset Fire ~ male 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Pleco, Clown 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Shrimp, Amano 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Swordtail - Marigold 21 1-May
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Swordtail - Green (Silver) 1 F/ 1 M 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Swordtail - Red ~ M 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > TOTALs adults 25 fry 39 GrandTtl 64
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > as you may be able to decipher, most are really
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > young fry and do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > take up much space, yet.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > its funny you mention - "a school of 100 neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tetras", thats exactly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > my plan for the 55 when it cycles, or maybe just 100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Cardinals, or 50
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > of each.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Water Quality is EVERTHING.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Keep it highly maintained and you can test the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > limits of "How many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > fish can reasonably live in a 12 gallon tank"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > "keith94112"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > <keith@i...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > ...Here's the worst question... How many fish can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > reasonably live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > 12 gallon tank? Promise I won't start out with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > school of 100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > tetras, but would 5 neons, a bottom cat, 2 mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > size of a beta be too much?...Any tips would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > appreciated. Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2665 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Anyone who is confused about the cycle, read this!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The Nitrogen Cycle

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              in New Aquariums

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The most important thing that a new aquarium owner needs to know is the nitrogen cycle.  This is a part of the setting up of the aquarium that many, including myself, did not know until it was too late.  When you buy a new aquarium and put your first fish into the tank, it will start a process called the nitrogen cycle.  This is known as “cycling the aquarium”.  This process will take up to 6 weeks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The Nitrogen Cycle starts the moment you put any organic material into your tank.  This can be water plants, fish, fish food, or pure ammonia.  For most new aquarists (fish keepers), it starts with fish.  Fish produce ammonia as a waste product.  Uneaten food that falls to the bottom or is taken up by the filter will also break down to form ammonia.  The ammonia can build up and kill the fish.  This is why everyone should have an ammonia test kit when they start a tank or add fish.  The good news is that there are bacteria that "eat" ammonia and turn it into a chemical called nitrite.  Nitrite is also deadly, and also builds up in your tank.  You should also have a nitrite test kit.  Once again, there are bacteria that "eat" nitrite and turn it into nitrate.  Nitrate is another chemical that can build up and kill fish, but that rarely happens because it takes huge amounts of nitrates to kill a fish.  They are usually kept low by weekly water changes, but a nitrate test kit is a good idea to check levels between water changes.  Unlike ammonia and nitrites, which can kill fish at low levels, nitrates are safe until they rise above 100ppm (parts per million).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you have fish in your tank during the cycle, it will not hurt to do 25% water changes every 3 to 5 days.  Don't touch the gravel or the filter during the cycle.  Most of the bacteria you will need grow in the gravel and filter.  It is very important not to use a gravel vacuum until the bacteria have fully developed in your gravel.  You should also avoid changing your filter’s cartridges during this time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There are various chemicals that claim to instantly cycle an aquarium, or to allow you to do water changes only twice each year.  There is no substitute for proper aquarium maintenance.  Water changes should be done every week and should remove 25-30% of the water.  The safest way to cycle an aquarium is not with a bottle claiming to instantly cycle the aquarium, but to do a “fishless cycle”.  This method of cycling an aquarium will take less than a month, but requires patience.  During this time, the tank will sit as if it is stocked with fish, but would not have the fish.  Heaters, filters, and lights should all be operated as if it has been stocked with fish.  Each day, a small amount of fish food or pure cleaning ammonia will be added to the tank.  Fish food is probably the best way to do this because it will always be safe for fish once the fish are in the tank.  During this time, you do not need to do water changes because there will be no fish to be harmed by rising ammonia and nitrite levels.  Once the fishless cycle is complete, ammonia and nitrite levels will be 0 and nitrates will start to rise.  At this time, you can begin to stock your fish and discontinue adding ammonia or fish food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Fish stocking should always be done slowly.  Even if there has been a fishless cycle, and the tank has fully developed bacteria, the aquarium will still require time to grow more bacteria to remove extra levels of ammonia produced by the fish.  When you first start stocking the aquarium, you should never put more than 25% of the total amount of fish to start with.  The total amount of fish that you should have in your tank is normally 1 inch of fish per gallon of water.  A ten-gallon aquarium could have ten, one-inch fish or five, two-inch fish.  The length of the fish is how long the fish will grow to, not how long the fish is when you buy it.  Fish do not grow to the size of the aquarium.  A pleco can grow to be well over a foot in a ten-gallon tank, if it survives long enough.  Bala Sharks grow to around 12 inches, but should be kept in tanks of over 100 gallons because they need the room to swim.  Also, you should start the cycle with the smallest fish that you will be keeping in your tank.  Do not start with goldfish (which do not belong in most aquariums less than 20 gallons and do not belong with tropical fish) unless you are going to be keeping a goldfish-only tank. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Even with this information, you still need to do as much research as you can before you buy your first fish.  You need to look at what your fish store has, and then research the fish that you find interesting.  That little two-inch fish may grow to be nearly two feet.  Two fish of the same species, such as two bettas or two gouramis, may attack and kill each other.  You should always know as much about a fish as you can before you buy it to prevent yourself from being surprised.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2666 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/21/2004 11:54:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, bucks_boogie@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Since I no longer carry pH Down at my store, maybe they've changed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              active ingredients, but I thought they used sulfuric acid.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm trying to figure out where y'all are seeing these acids on these packages. I've got a bottle of pH Decreaser on my desk, and it doesn't have any ingredients listed on the package. It says "lowers pH safely" and "Safe for freshwater aquarium fish and plants". I've only used it once when first setting up the tank. My particular fish prefer slightly hard water, like I've got from my city water, so I don't bother with the pH.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2667 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have that it is made of sodium hydroxide. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2668 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                he does not have to, infact the tank would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                healthier without. the bacteria from the tap water is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                sufficeint to start it--- sevenspringss@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Todd, You're right on the money; he has to have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > couple of fish in there to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > help cycle the tank. That is why I suggested this in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > my very next sentence. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2669 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: AquaSafe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to make money--- jess_babs_07 <jess_babs_07@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > If you should wait for the cycle to finish then what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > is the point of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > TetraAqua's AquaSafe.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2670 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: more cycle stuff (new to group...)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Bacteria is useless if there is nothing to feed it.  The tank would still need something to feed ammonia to the bacteria, either fish waste or food just thrown in.  Or bottled ammonia, live plants, mulm from an established tank, etc. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 06/22/04 17:44:50
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  he does not have to, infact the tank would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  healthier without.  the bacteria from the tap water is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  sufficeint to start it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2671 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: AquaSafe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Aquasafe is similar to stress coat, some like it, some don't, but it removes chlorine either way.  The label is a little misleading about everything it does, but it does that well.  I used it for a while, until I changed to stress coat.  Chlorout is cheaper.  Maybe you mean the other stuff they make that comes in a similar bottle that claims to make water changed unneccesarry for months.  I don't know if it works or not, but I doubt it's claims.  Nothing replaces a good, weekly, 25+% water changes for keeping water pH, etc. stable.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If you should wait for the cycle to finish then what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is the point of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > TetraAqua's AquaSafe.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2672 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ok, I just got my fish tank Monday and I set it up with the filter,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    air pump, and heater. Now I am trying to find some way to speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the cycle my tank has to go through. And what fish I can start to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in and when. I have a 10 gallon tank (srry if I repeat) and would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    like to have a variety of freshwater fish.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2673 From: Cathey Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: WHAT is invading my tank?! PLEASE HELP!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I posted photos in the photo section under "Cathey's Pics"... these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    things are all over my 50 gallon tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    All I keep in it are african clawed frogs and apple snails, and I've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    talked with people who breed both, and they said this is neither.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    PLEASE tell me what these little things ARE!!!!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2674 From: Cathey Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Would someone please look in Photos under "Cathey's Pics" and tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    me what you think those little things ARE?!?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There are TONS of them all over my 50 gallon tank... all I keep in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the tank is African clawed frogs and 5 apple snails. I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    breeders of both say it was eggs of neither.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Pleaseeee advise on this! I don't have a CLUE what this might be!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (Or how to get rid of them!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thank you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2675 From: Aaron Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi Cathey,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I apologize for the delay in your messages getting posted. You are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    now unmoderated so your messages should post immeditely from now on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I can not tell from the photos what I am looking at.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've never had the African clawed frogs, yet, but is it possibly a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    laevae stage of the eggs? Just Guessing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have had a female Apple snail. She laid lots of eggs in clusters,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    but she never mated so the eggs did not hatch.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Are these things moving or stationary?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How big are they?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Are they hard like a shell or soft like gel?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you have Live Plants in the tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When was the first time you noticed these?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Are there more & more of them daily?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Have you made any changes to the decorations recently?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Are you feeding Live food to the tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If the objects themselves are not relocating, is there something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    inside moving around?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I would like to recommend taking some out and showing to the LFS to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    see what they think.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope that helps, really curious-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Aaron




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Cathey"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <catheylove@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Would someone please look in Photos under "Cathey's Pics" and tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > me what you think those little things ARE?!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > There are TONS of them all over my 50 gallon tank... all I keep in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the tank is African clawed frogs and 5 apple snails. I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > breeders of both say it was eggs of neither.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Pleaseeee advise on this! I don't have a CLUE what this might be!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (Or how to get rid of them!)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Thank you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2676 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    While reading i see you guys say to use otto's. are these the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    little sucker fish? I found two pictures and they kinda look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the ones they sell here. Do they actually eat the poop that falls to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the bottom? and would they get along ok with cory cats. also i made
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the mistake of buying a plant called a green hedge (that was in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish tank) than after i brought it home i looked it up and it turns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    out it is a plant that only likes it's roots in the water (for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    terrariums)and will die in about a month of tank life. and here i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thought it would be perfect for the baby fry. there's a picture in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    melanie's pics. MELANIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2677 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      They look like the eggs of a common snail to me.  I think they are the ones called ramshorn snails. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Date: 06/22/04 20:35:08
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Would someone please look in Photos under "Cathey's Pics" and tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      me what you think those little things ARE?!?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are TONS of them all over my 50 gallon tank... all I keep in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the tank is African clawed frogs and 5 apple snails.  I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      breeders of both say it was eggs of neither.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Pleaseeee advise on this!  I don't have a CLUE what this might be!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (Or how to get rid of them!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2678 From: Patrick Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ottos are good fish.  The fish you see are probably cae's (Chinese algae eaters), but they could be ottos.  Make sure you don't just buy fish marked algae eater.  I have 2 ottos, 2 albino cories, and 3 juli cories.  They get along fine.  I never have algae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Do they actually eat the poop that falls to the bottom?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I sure hope not, that would just be disgusting.  I think they eat the food that falls to the bottom, and algae that grows on stuff.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Date: 06/22/04 21:36:21
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           While reading i see you guys say to use otto's. are these the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        little sucker fish? I found two pictures and they kinda look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the ones they sell here. Do they actually eat the poop that falls to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the bottom? and would they get along ok with cory cats. also i made
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the mistake of buying a plant called a green hedge (that was in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish tank) than after i brought it home i looked it up and it turns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        out it is a plant that only likes it's roots in the water (for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        terrariums)and will die in about a month of tank life. and here i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        thought it would be perfect for the baby fry. there's a picture in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        melanie's pics. MELANIE



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2679 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        They look like baby snails....!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Did u add any plant recently, they most probably have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        come with the plant(s). You can add a couple of clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        loachs and they will be more than happy to clear the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        snail poplulation for you..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        HTH..SuNnY !


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- Aaron <massagetherapist@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Hi Cathey,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I apologize for the delay in your messages getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > posted. You are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > now unmoderated so your messages should post
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > immeditely from now on.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I can not tell from the photos what I am looking at.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I've never had the African clawed frogs, yet, but is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > it possibly a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > laevae stage of the eggs? Just Guessing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have had a female Apple snail. She laid lots of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > eggs in clusters,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > but she never mated so the eggs did not hatch.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Are these things moving or stationary?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > How big are they?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Are they hard like a shell or soft like gel?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Do you have Live Plants in the tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > When was the first time you noticed these?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Are there more & more of them daily?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Have you made any changes to the decorations
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > recently?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Are you feeding Live food to the tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > If the objects themselves are not relocating, is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > there something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > inside moving around?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I would like to recommend taking some out and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > showing to the LFS to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > see what they think.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Hope that helps, really curious-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > "Cathey"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > <catheylove@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Would someone please look in Photos under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > "Cathey's Pics" and tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > me what you think those little things ARE?!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > There are TONS of them all over my 50 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank... all I keep in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the tank is African clawed frogs and 5 apple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > snails. I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > breeders of both say it was eggs of neither.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Pleaseeee advise on this! I don't have a CLUE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > what this might be!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > (Or how to get rid of them!)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Thank you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2680 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        well someone mentioned eating your dinner out of the toilet, so i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wasn't sure. thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > "Do they actually eat the poop that falls to the bottom?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I sure hope not, that would just be disgusting. I think they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        eat the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > food that falls to the bottom, and algae that grows on stuff.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2681 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've had three kinds of 'algae-eaters', the Chinese and OTTOS' got along with everybody in the tank ( though I've read recently the Chinese can be temperamental) . A larger AE, resembling the OTTOS' (much larger, maybe it was a Siamese algae-eater, if there is such a thing), became aggressive/territorial with the Corys', so I sold/gave him/her to the LFS.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2682 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Cathy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It would help to know if you added anything to your tank lately, and how long you've had your snails and frogs?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've never had a frog but have had unwanted pond-snails, and their eggs were not similar to your alien creatures ( but there's a remote similarity to pond-snail-eggs, which are roundish, and some frog-eggs). If there was a biological/aquatic website where you could send your pictures........? I know 'ABOUT.COM' has diverse interests, and experts associated with their site. Cornell U. is famous for it's bio interest, but finding your way through to someone could be daunting. Finding a way into Colleges and Universities for info by email.........?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A local agricultural extension associated with PENN State U. responded to my question about identifying a plant I'd sent a picture of. Your frog and snails are'nt local, so I think unless someone local at an Ag. extention has knowledge about foreign species, you may need to find something else. I guess your water-quality is OK? Accomodating the creatures in your tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Joe P


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Would someone please look in Photos under "Cathey's Pics" and tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > me what you think those little things ARE?!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > There are TONS of them all over my 50 gallon tank... all I keep in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the tank is African clawed frogs and 5 apple snails. I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > breeders of both say it was eggs of neither.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Pleaseeee advise on this! I don't have a CLUE what this might be!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (Or how to get rid of them!)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thank you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2683 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4-6 weeks would be the smart way to go before stocking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the tank. some peoepl seem to believe that a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          refridgerated bacteria calkled bio spira greatly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          speeds up the process. i don't believe in it myself,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but customers say that have had good luck---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          jess_babs_07 <jess_babs_07@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Ok, I just got my fish tank Monday and I set it up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with the filter,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > air pump, and heater. Now I am trying to find some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > way to speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the cycle my tank has to go through. And what fish I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > can start to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > in and when. I have a 10 gallon tank (srry if I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > repeat) and would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > like to have a variety of freshwater fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2684 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          One of THE most horribly uninformed expressions from people starting to keep fish is ;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "They eat poop and keep the tank clean." No fish is going to do that. It's up to the person keeping fish to concern themselves with how to keep the fish healthy. Ottos' and Corys' are two of the most peaceful fish I've had experience with, and have never had trouble with both in the same tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As far as algae being dirt, it's not, at least some of it is food. I've had Ottos', and while they've never perfectly cleared the 75 gallon tank I had of safely edible algae, they had he algae to eat, and if the front of the tank got a little green, I scraped it off.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Joe P


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > While reading i see you guys say to use otto's. are these the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > little sucker fish? I found two pictures and they kinda look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the ones they sell here. Do they actually eat the poop that falls to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the bottom? and would they get along ok with cory cats. also i made
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the mistake of buying a plant called a green hedge (that was in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish tank) than after i brought it home i looked it up and it turns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > out it is a plant that only likes it's roots in the water (for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > terrariums)and will die in about a month of tank life. and here i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > thought it would be perfect for the baby fry. there's a picture in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > melanie's pics. MELANIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2685 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: more cycle stuff (new to group...)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you can believe what you want..... the amonia spike is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          what makes the bacteria take off, once it is coming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          down it will need some food, which is why you start
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          adding fish then.--- Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Bacteria is useless if there is nothing to feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it. The tank would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > still need something to feed ammonia to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bacteria, either fish waste or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > food just thrown in. Or bottled ammonia, live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > plants, mulm from an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > established tank, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 2 neons and 3 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > raised guppy, 2 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gourami. I do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Date: 06/22/04 17:44:50
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the group - with boring
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > he does not have to, infact the tank would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > healthier without. the bacteria from the tap water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > sufficeint to start it




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2686 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: marisa_eggs_moving
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Baby snails moving inside eggs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          JoeP

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             marisa_eggs_moving
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2687 From: Cathey Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            How big do clown loaches get??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And I don't really have anywhere to put them once they've "done the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            job", as my frogs would rip them up if they stayed too long. :(


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2688 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: ramshorneggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cathy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 This is a picture of RAMSHORN snail hatchlings.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe Pascavage

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               ramshorneggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2689 From: Cathey Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: oh CRAP--they're hatching and they're EVERYWHERE!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it is DEFINITELY baby snails of some sort... and they're INVADING.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hundreds... everywhere... tiny eggs, tiny babies... all over the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Could one clown loach eat them?? If I only got one, he might could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              go in the goldfish tank once his job was finished.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Am I going to have to strip the entire tank down?!?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              This is unbelievable... I haven't introduced ANY new plants in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Months, just 4 new apple snails--but everyone says these aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              apple snail babies, they're ramshorn (which I DO have, but in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              completely different tank)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ohhhhhhhhhhh dear... little stressed here. Don't know how to strip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              down a 50 gallon long tank :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2690 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Cathy,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They grow to 12" long... One can do the job for you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but 2 is a company and its fun & Recommended to have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              two of them MINIMUM !!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Pls find below the link for more details..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/botia_macracanthus.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Cathey <catheylove@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > How big do clown loaches get??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > And I don't really have anywhere to put them once
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > they've "done the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > job", as my frogs would rip them up if they stayed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > too long. :(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2691 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: oh CRAP--they're hatching and they're EVERYWHERE!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Could it be your Apple-snails came from a tank with Ramshorn?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You could remove most of them manually. When my PH dropped, it caused conditions not amenable to pond-snail developement, and they disappeared. You would'nt want to do that if your other creatures would suffer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Your Ramshorns may not degenerate the same way my pond-snails did with an acid PH. I'ts a horrible thought, but you don't want a tank seething to decay with too many snails.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > it is DEFINITELY baby snails of some sort... and they're INVADING.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hundreds... everywhere... tiny eggs, tiny babies... all over the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Could one clown loach eat them?? If I only got one, he might could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > go in the goldfish tank once his job was finished.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Am I going to have to strip the entire tank down?!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > This is unbelievable... I haven't introduced ANY new plants in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Months, just 4 new apple snails--but everyone says these aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > apple snail babies, they're ramshorn (which I DO have, but in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > completely different tank)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ohhhhhhhhhhh dear... little stressed here. Don't know how to strip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > down a 50 gallon long tank :(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2692 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: oh CRAP--they're hatching and they're EVERYWHERE!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              clown loaches do much better in groups in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              experience. i have only had success with them in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              group of 3. some friends have had luck with a pair,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but groups are better, they will be more visible
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              andmore active that way--- j.pascavage@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Could it be your Apple-snails came from a tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > with Ramshorn?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > You could remove most of them manually. When my PH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > dropped, it caused conditions not amenable to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > pond-snail developement, and they disappeared. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > would'nt want to do that if your other creatures
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > would suffer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Your Ramshorns may not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > degenerate the same way my pond-snails did with an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > acid PH. I'ts a horrible thought, but you don't want
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > a tank seething to decay with too many snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > it is DEFINITELY baby snails of some sort... and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > they're INVADING.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Hundreds... everywhere... tiny eggs, tiny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > babies... all over the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Could one clown loach eat them?? If I only got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > one, he might could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > go in the goldfish tank once his job was finished.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Am I going to have to strip the entire tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > down?!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > This is unbelievable... I haven't introduced ANY
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > new plants in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Months, just 4 new apple snails--but everyone says
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > these aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > apple snail babies, they're ramshorn (which I DO
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > have, but in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > completely different tank)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Ohhhhhhhhhhh dear... little stressed here. Don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > know how to strip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > down a 50 gallon long tank :(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2693 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              doing the job can take a long time. you may want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              get something to keep the frogs in. ramshorns are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              rapid breeders. they generally will lay eggs in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              back filters, power head and uplift tubes, causing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              massive infestations that reoccur. if they make it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              under the undergravel filter, which they usually do,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it is gonna take a while. in addition they breed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              asexually, meaning that they don't need a partner, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              if you miss one, they will return--- Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <catheylove@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > How big do clown loaches get??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > And I don't really have anywhere to put them once
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > they've "done the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > job", as my frogs would rip them up if they stayed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > too long. :(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2694 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the best way to get rid of the "poop" at the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank is-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. do not over feed. only feed enough that the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              consume it entirely in 2-3 minutes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. use an undergravel filter with a stronger air pump
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              than you think you would need, or power heads. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              recomend the 301's in anything larger than 30 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they have a flow rate somewhere between 100 and 175
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              gallons per hour, meaning that they are pulling that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              much water through the substrate and feeding the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bacteria below it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              3. every 2-3 months do a lite gravel vac of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              surface of your substrate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              with proper filtration you should not have to do much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to the tank. top it off after evaporation, and do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              small water change of 5-10%. larger water changes are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              only needed when there is a problem. if you a re a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              believer that water changes need to be more frequent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              or that water quality is unstable because of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              inadequate filtration then it is better to do 5-10%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              per week instead of 25% at a time. over cleaning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (killing your bio filter) and over feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (polluting)are the main causes of fish loss.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              remember, fish are bigs and will eat when fed. if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they are not breeding they only need to eat 1 time per
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              day, as much as will be eaten in 2 minutes. just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              because they eat it does not mean that they need it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              excessive "poop' is the result as is amonia.---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > One of THE most horribly uninformed expressions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > from people starting to keep fish is ;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > "They eat poop and keep the tank clean." No
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish is going to do that. It's up to the person
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > keeping fish to concern themselves with how to keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the fish healthy. Ottos' and Corys' are two of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > most peaceful fish I've had experience with, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > have never had trouble with both in the same tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > As far as algae being dirt, it's not, at least
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > some of it is food. I've had Ottos', and while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > they've never perfectly cleared the 75 gallon tank I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > had of safely edible algae, they had he algae to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > eat, and if the front of the tank got a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > green, I scraped it off.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > While reading i see you guys say to use otto's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > are these the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > little sucker fish? I found two pictures and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > kinda look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the ones they sell here. Do they actually eat the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > poop that falls to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the bottom? and would they get along ok with cory
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > cats. also i made
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the mistake of buying a plant called a green hedge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > (that was in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish tank) than after i brought it home i looked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > it up and it turns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > out it is a plant that only likes it's roots in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the water (for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > terrariums)and will die in about a month of tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > life. and here i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > thought it would be perfect for the baby fry.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > there's a picture in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > melanie's pics. MELANIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2695 From: paul helms Date: 6/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cathey-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i currently have a rams horn snail outbreak in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank, but my egg sacks look totally different. they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              are not as uniform, and more gloppy looking. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ramshorns seem to prefer to lay eggs in porous rocks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              or in warm areas with high flow, such as in filter by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the motors. i don't think they are rams horns, but i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              am not certain that they are not either. try to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              connect with aaron he seems to have a good handle on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              snail species,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Cathy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > It would help to know if you added anything to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > your tank lately, and how long you've had your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > snails and frogs?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've never had a frog but have had unwanted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > pond-snails, and their eggs were not similar to your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > alien creatures ( but there's a remote similarity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > pond-snail-eggs, which are roundish, and some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > frog-eggs). If there was a biological/aquatic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > website where you could send your pictures........?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I know 'ABOUT.COM' has diverse interests, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > experts associated with their site. Cornell U. is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > famous for it's bio interest, but finding your way
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > through to someone could be daunting. Finding a way
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > into Colleges and Universities for info by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > email.........?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > A local agricultural extension associated with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > PENN State U. responded to my question about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > identifying a plant I'd sent a picture of. Your frog
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and snails are'nt local, so I think unless someone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > local at an Ag. extention has knowledge about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > foreign species, you may need to find something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > else. I guess your water-quality is OK? Accomodating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the creatures in your tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Would someone please look in Photos under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > "Cathey's Pics" and tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > me what you think those little things ARE?!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > There are TONS of them all over my 50 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank... all I keep in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the tank is African clawed frogs and 5 apple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > snails. I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > breeders of both say it was eggs of neither.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Pleaseeee advise on this! I don't have a CLUE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > what this might be!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > (Or how to get rid of them!)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Thank you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2696 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Otos are small, do a great job with algae, and like the company of their own
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              kind. They don't eat poop, and yes they get along fine with cories.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > While reading i see you guys say to use otto's. are these the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > little sucker fish? I found two pictures and they kinda look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the ones they sell here. Do they actually eat the poop that falls to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the bottom? and would they get along ok with cory cats.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2697 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are other types of loaches that eat snails and don't grow as large.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "sunil kamath" <sunnyvks@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > They grow to 12" long... One can do the job for you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but 2 is a company and its fun & Recommended to have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > two of them MINIMUM !!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Cathey <catheylove@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > How big do clown loaches get??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2698 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              NO- fish are not needed to cycle the tank. there is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              enough bacteria on the surface of everything,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              including your hands, to start the tank off. there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              are also product like stress zyme which you can add
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1st, 7th, and 14th day. it is nothing but live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bacteria. non harmful in any does, helpful in any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              dose--- Todd Fields <jtfields91@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Keith, Since as you say, you just set the tank up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > over this past weekend, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > would not be ready to put fish in it as early as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > next week, but would wait at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > least three more weeks for the tank to "cycle". If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well he has to have something in there to cycle the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank doesn't he? One or two fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2699 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Not eggs they are baby snails! to get rid of them get a couple of clown loaches, they will be gone in no time

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cathey <catheylove@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Would someone please look in Photos under "Cathey's Pics" and tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              me what you think those little things ARE?!?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are TONS of them all over my 50 gallon tank... all I keep in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank is African clawed frogs and 5 apple snails.  I've had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              breeders of both say it was eggs of neither.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Pleaseeee advise on this!  I don't have a CLUE what this might be!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (Or how to get rid of them!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Cathey




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stop by and see ~ membership is free!




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2700 From: keith94112 Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Wow! Thank you all for responding. Even after owning a larger
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              aquarium years ago, I never knew about the cycle. I thought I could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              add fish after a few days of stabilizing. I have the Eclipse biowheel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              system also. Put two large plants in there, too. I think I'll feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the tank with the free fish food that came with and wait a couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              weeks before adding fish now. Thanks for all the tips. I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              think I'll be adding a beta either. I clearly need to plan on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              starting out simple. Will let you know how it goes. Keith

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sevenspringss@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Would like to add to/clarify this last statement; he needs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              SOMETHING in there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to help start the cycle. It could be fish (cheap fish) which may or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              may not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > survive, or it could be fish food or some other type of protein
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              which will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > start breaking down in the presence of aerobic bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (Nitrosomonas and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrobacters). A "culture" taken from an established filter would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              also be a help. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2701 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Jessica,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Welcome to the hobby. I hope you find it as enjoyable and relaxing as I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              have.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There really is not a way to speed up the "cycling" process. However, in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              opinion, once a new aquarium has been set up, simply let it run for at least
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              48 to 72 hours before adding any fish. After 48 to 72 hours start slowly by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              adding one or maybe two fish to your aquarium. Guppies or Swordtails make
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              excellent beginner fish. Wait at least an additional 48 to 72 hours before
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              adding any more fish. Be sure to test your pH and ammonia levels weekly. And
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              don't forget to do water changes (I personally do approximately 40% water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              changes every other week).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hope this helps.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Gary

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Questions


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ok, I just got my fish tank Monday and I set it up with the filter,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > air pump, and heater. Now I am trying to find some way to speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the cycle my tank has to go through. And what fish I can start to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > in and when. I have a 10 gallon tank (srry if I repeat) and would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > like to have a variety of freshwater fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2702 From: bryants4god Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am a lurker but I raise snails and those are not ramshorns eggs. I can post the picture on a list I am on but only with your permission.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Cathey [mailto:catheylove@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 11:12 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How big do clown loaches get??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And I don't really have anywhere to put them once they've "done the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              job", as my frogs would rip them up if they stayed too long. :(


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Cathey


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2703 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/21/2004 6:22:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, jess_babs_07@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a 10 gallon tank and would like to get some fish. I would like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to get as many betta fish as I can in there if I can put more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              one. What other types of fish can I put in with a betta and how many.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I would like to have Guppies and Mollies.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ONLY PUT ONE MALE BETTA IN!! They are territorial, and WILL fight if you put more than one in a tank. However, with just ONE male betta (which 9 times out of ten, the bettas you see in a fish store will be males) they are very peaceful fish and will get along with a lot. A printout my mother gave me when I started thinking of putting a betta in my 15 gallon with my mollies and platies says :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Ideal tank mates include Tetras, Danios, Angelfish, Livebearers, Rasboras, Loaches, Plecos and Catfish"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Since guppies, mollies, and platies are all livebearer fish, your idea of having guppies and mollies in your ten gallon tank with the betta is sound.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              However, remember only ONE betta. Otherwise you'll have a bloody mess. Mollies are schooling fish, and are best in groups of at least four. Not sure about guppies, I don't know anything about them, but several other members of the group do keep them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Your space is quite limited with a ten gallon tank. If you get one betta, and say one male mollie and four female mollies (if you're lucky, the person at the fish-store SHOULD know how to tell the difference ... if they dont know the difference, ask for someone else to help you or go to another store) you should be able to get five or six guppies. I'm not sure how big guppies get, so again, you'll have to ask someone who keeps guppies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bettas also like low light and a densely planted tank. Ten gallon is minimum recommended size here, so on that note you are good. (However, my daughter has a betta all by himself in a 2 gallon explorer tank, and he is happy.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You'll want to look for fish that require about the same conditions as bettas. A betta (again, according to my handy printout) requires :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water temperature : 75-86 degrees F
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pH : 6.0 - 8.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              dH (water hardness) : 0 - 25
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              temperament : peaceful

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2704 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/22/04 4:57:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: DISCUS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              General Requirements: Temperature -- maintanence - 82F, breeding - 86F.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hardness -- maintanance - domestic - not too fussy WITHIN REASON (up to 8 .........................

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks - that's a big help.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2705 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Please answer ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/22/2004 9:57:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, jtfields91@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              elementary schools are great places to go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >to give away the babies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >once they are big enough.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm sure the parents of these kids really appreciate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it when their kid comes home with a new pet to care
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              for too.  :)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My point when suggesting elementary schools was to ask the TEACHERS if they'd like the fish for a classroom tank... not pull aside KIDS and just hand them baggies of fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm a parent of two children myself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2706 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/22/2004 1:33:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bettas are not carnivores specifically.  they do have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              a solid jaw structure and actually chew their foods,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but they do not eat other fish for the sake of eating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              other fish.  in


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Carnivore, by definition, is "meat eater"... and in the case of bettas, their natural food is insects and insect larvae. That qualifies them as carnivores.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Did I say anything about them eating the other fish? Nope. I mentioned that bettas should get along just fine with other fish. :) You want to look for a store that doesn't sell their bettas in those tiny cups, though, so that you have better chances of getting a betta that has been socialized and gotten used to being in a tank with other fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ever look close at the ingredients of Tetra Min flakes? As I look at my Tetra Color package, the first ingredient listed is "fish meal" ... ooh yummy, ground up fish. That's meat. Shrimp meal and fish oil are also listed in the ingredients. So I'm not surprised that bettas are able to "make do" by eating tropical flake food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2707 From: Patrick Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: more cycle stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                you can believe what you want..... the amonia spike is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                what makes the bacteria take off, once it is coming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                down it will need some food, which is why you start
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                adding fish then.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What about the deadly nitrite spike that is responsible for killing so many fish?  Do you not believe in this?   I believe it because it is in all the published works I have read.  In fact, there was a good description of this in the last Aquarium Fish issue.  You say bacteria takes off when there is an ammonia spike.  I know bacteria can live before the ammonia spike, but I just don't think a tank of water can produce enough ammonia to spike without something else added to it.  What, other than new gravel, filter, tank and water, is in there to make the ammonia needed to spike?  Does your local water supply have ammonia in it?  Even if it does, once the bacteria eat all of it, they will end their growth.  I have no problem with fishless cycling.  I even describe it in my explanation of the nitrogen cycle and suggest it to new aquarists.  But unless the tank is fed with something from the beginning, I just can't see it getting up and cycling itself.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2708 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Betta food and Cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                can just adding betta fish food help with the cycle?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2709 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                if i put 2 alge eaters and a catfish in my ten gallon tank will i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have to clean the tank often since they eat the alge and leftover
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2710 From: Patrick Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Betta food and Cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes.  But flake food dissolves and rots faster, making the ammonia rise better.  It is also cheaper than betta food.  You will need to add a pinch every day.  You will also need ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits to watch the levels.  Keep feeding during this time.  First ammonia will rise and spike.  Then nitrite will spike.  That should take 1 month - 6 weeks.  When nitrite spikes, nitrates will begin to rise.  When there are 0 ammonia and nitrites, and more than 0 nitrates, it will be safe to add fish.  Keep the feeding going until you add the fish so the bacteria will stay in large numbers.  But even then you should add slowly because there may be another ammonia or nitrite spike because of the added fish load. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  can just adding betta fish food help with the cycle?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2711 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 6/23/2004 10:14:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, jess_babs_07@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  if i put 2 alge eaters and a catfish in my ten gallon tank will i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have to clean the tank often


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You can't rely on "cleaner fish" to clean the tank for you. Yes, they eat algae and leftover food that sinks to the bottom. Part of the responsibility of keeping an aquarium is maintaining it. That means regular water changes and cleaning.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Cleaning the tank is not HARD or time consuming. All it requires is an algae scrubber (which you probably won't even need to use often if you have algae eating fish) that is designed for the material your tank is made of, a bucket, and a gravel vacuum. It takes no more time than changing a cat's litter box, or checking your back yard for dog poop if you have dogs. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Regular aquarium maintenance makes your tank look nice, and helps keep your fish healthy. I personally don't advise any "shortcuts" that claim to make it so you have to clean your tank less frequently. If you use only disposable dishes, for example, you won't have to wash your dishes as often ... but you still have to wash the dishes you use for cooking, and you still have to take out the garbage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My tank maintenance :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  - Every day : feed fish, look at how the water is flowing out of the filter to make sure the filter cartridge doesn't need to be changed, skim any nibbled off bits of plants from the top of the water

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  - Once a week : remove about 1/3 of the water using the gravel vacuum, and replace with fresh water that has been treated with Stress Coat and has aquarium salt added (because I use aquarium salt in my tank ... some people don't use salt.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  - Once every two weeks : when doing water change, vacuum the gravel to remove any debris that has collected there

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  - As needed : use algae scrubber to scrub front and sides of tank, especially at water line (I have hard water) and scrub filter intake tube with a baby bottle brush ... if needed, wipe down inside of reservoir in filter to get any large sheets of algae that have grown there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This doesn't include changing the filter cartridges, checking the bulbs in the aquarium hood, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  When I clean out my tank once a week (I'm in the habit of doing it that often ... for a while I was overstocked, and just haven't changed my habits), it takes about half an hour ... and thats including having to walk all the way into the kitchen to fill the 1 gallon pitcher that I use for water changes.  Since I also have cats, I can tell you from experience that this takes no more time than completely changing my cats' litter box.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2712 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Cleaning the tank is not HARD or time consuming. All it requires is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  an algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > scrubber (which you probably won't even need to use often if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > eating fish) that is designed for the material your tank is made
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of, a bucket,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > and a gravel vacuum. It takes no more time than changing a cat's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  litter box, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > checking your back yard for dog poop if you have dogs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And if you are a gardener, or just have a few houseplants, it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  great stuff for watering said plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2713 From: dave Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  One thing not mentioned so far is to establish a base line by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  checking your tap water for ammonia and nitrate. This should be done
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  monthly at least this allows you to note any changes in your source
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  water because the paramiters can change monthly.and because you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  nitrAtes does not mean the tank is cycled unless the nitrAte count is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  higher than your source and ammonia and nitrIte are zero
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As for the amount of nitrAte while less is best nitrAte for most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  freshwater fish is not hazradous at low levels <90ppm The US gov't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  allows up to 45ppm of nitrAte in tap water-Dave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2714 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm not the expert these guys are (most of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  experience is with Bettas) but since I recently added
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  an Oto (assuming you mean an Otocinclus) I figured I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  relay my experience.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have a small three gallon (Eclipse Three) that had a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bit of an algae problem after my wife used it as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  night light in my child's bedroom for a week (long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  story.) The sides of the tank weren't too bad but the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ornaments and plastic plants inside were covered with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  algae.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Anyway, I added one of these little guys and within
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  two weeks he has almost cleaned the entire tank. He
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  eats algae vigorously 24/7. He (or she I suppose) is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  also a very amusing fish as well often quickly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  swimming all over the place. He essentially seems to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ignore every other living thing in the tank (5 Neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Tetras, 1 Kuhlii Loach, 1 African Dwarf Frog, 1 Apple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Snail, and some Ghost Shrimp). He's been a great
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  addition. I'm sure it would take several to clean a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  larger tank of course.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  He doesn't "eat poop" however. In fact I've rarely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  seen him touch much other than algae. I had talked to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  some people who told me that some "algae" eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (particularly Plecos) might get accustomed to eating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish food and quit eating algae altogether. The Oto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  though seems relentless in his quest to eat algae (I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hoping I don't run out.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My Kuhlii Loach tends to sometimes eat the "junk" at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the bottom (although that wasn't my intention for him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and I do put food in for him.) I put some Ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Shrimp in to kind of eat some of the scraps and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  do an okay job with that altough in a larger tank it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  would probably take an army of them and if you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish of any size they would probably make a meal out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > While reading i see you guys say to use otto's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > are these the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > little sucker fish? I found two pictures and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > kinda look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > the ones they sell here. Do they actually eat the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > poop that falls to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > the bottom? and would they get along ok with cory
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > cats.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2715 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick, Are you refering to BB's post on pH Down or Erin's post on pH Decreaser (different product?) when you mention sodium hydroxide? Reason I ask is that the back label of a bottle of pH down I have reads "Contains phosphoric acid". This bottle is about 9 months old, perhaps they changed the formula. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2716 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I had a snail problem in my ten gallon blue gallon crayfish tank.  There were hundreds of them.   So many that they were restricting the water flow from the filter.  I put in two yo yo loaches and they had the problem contained within just a few days.  I tried clowns first but they required the water temp to be higher than the crayfish required.  They are pretty pushy fish.  They have actually run the blue crayfish out of her home and taken over her cave so unless the albino frogs are really agressive they would probably do fine.  Eveything I have learned from this group indicates that loaches do better in small groups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have an albino clawed frog in another tank and he is pushy but leaves the fish and dwarf frogs alone for the most part.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Michelle in PDX
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Dan & Theresa wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There are other types of loaches that eat snails and don't grow as large.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: "sunil kamath" <sunnyvks@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > They grow to 12" long... One can do the job for you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > but 2 is a company and its fun & Recommended to have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > two of them MINIMUM !!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- Cathey <catheylove@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > How big do clown loaches get??


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2717 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: S A L T
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There seems to be much controversy concerning salt (sodium chloride)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  in the aquarium. I am not an advocate of regular use of salt in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  aquarium water,but it does have its uses. Most hobbyists who use it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  use it as a permanant bath of a trace amount of 1 tsp to 10 gallons,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  or 1 tsp. per 5 gallons at the most. This solution will never hurt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  anything and can help prevent certain diseases from getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  established in the case of an inadvertant chill (heater failure).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Salt can be of most benefit in a short-term temporary bath (of up to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  7 - 10 days) in stronger solutions built up over several days at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  rate of one (no more than two) tsps. per gallon per day. Most fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  will tolerate 4 tsps. per gal.; many fish will tolerate 6 tsps. per
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  gal. and guppies and mollies can tolerate 8 tsps. per gallon. Salt at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  a solution of 0.3% (2.4 tsps. per gallon) inhibits the uptake of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nitrites by fish and limits damage done by the nitrites done to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  red blood cells, once in the bloodstream. Salt at 0.3% also inhibits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the uptake of Ammonia by fish, and so gill and other tissue damage by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ammonia is minimized. Also, Salt at lower concentrations stimulates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the production of bodily mucus which helps protect the gill membranes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  from the effects of high ammonia and fish's skin under attack by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  parasites and ciliates (Ich). Some fish, however, while tolerant to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  trace solutions, are sensitive to too much salt. These include; Wild
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Discus, Ottocinclus cats, Raphael cats, Rams (Dwarf Cichlid), Brokis
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  cats, Neons and Cardinals. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2718 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Betta food and Cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  jessica- i know most of the people on here are telling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  you that you need to add something.i have set up more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  than 50 tanks for friends/family/customers, you do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  need to add anything once the tank is filled. there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  is sufficient ammonia put into the tank by the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bacteria reproducing, dying off, and regrowing. if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  you want to use some live bacteria to start the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  it is great, but once it is started just let it run 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  weeks with the lights off and all of the filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  running the bacteria will also consume any brown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  algae that tries to grow.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- jess_babs_07 <jess_babs_07@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > can just adding betta fish food help with the cycle?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2719 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: more cycle stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  it does just fine patrick, i have done this a lot, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  my customers tanks are very healthy when started this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  way. most are ready to begin stocking in 5 weeks---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > you can believe what you want..... the amonia spike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > what makes the bacteria take off, once it is coming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > down it will need some food, which is why you start
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > adding fish then.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > What about the deadly nitrite spike that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > responsible for killing so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > many fish? Do you not believe in this? I believe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > it because it is in all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the published works I have read. In fact, there was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > a good description of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > this in the last Aquarium Fish issue. You say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > bacteria takes off when there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > is an ammonia spike. I know bacteria can live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > before the ammonia spike, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I just don't think a tank of water can produce
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > enough ammonia to spike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > without something else added to it. What, other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > than new gravel, filter,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tank and water, is in there to make the ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > needed to spike? Does your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > local water supply have ammonia in it? Even if it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > does, once the bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > eat all of it, they will end their growth. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > no problem with fishless
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > cycling. I even describe it in my explanation of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the nitrogen cycle and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > suggest it to new aquarists. But unless the tank is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > fed with something from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the beginning, I just can't see it getting up and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > cycling itself.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > inexperienced fish keepers!




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2720 From: Cathey Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Terri Bryant!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "I am a lurker but I raise snails and those are not ramshorns eggs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I can post the picture on a list I am on but only with your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  permission."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes, PLEASE post the pictures!!! I really want to know what species
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  these little guys are!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks so much,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2721 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they do better than make do, they thrive. bettas also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  enjoy plant life in their diet. so that would make
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  them omnivores. they love to nibble the roots of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  plant, an the leaves of anacharis. telling new people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  that they are carnvores will make them think that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  are like a t rex and crave meat.---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > In a message dated 6/22/2004 1:33:15 PM Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > bettas are not carnivores specifically. they do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > a solid jaw structure and actually chew their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > foods,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > but they do not eat other fish for the sake of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > eating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > other fish. in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Carnivore, by definition, is "meat eater"... and in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the case of bettas, their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > natural food is insects and insect larvae. That
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > qualifies them as carnivores.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Did I say anything about them eating the other fish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nope. I mentioned that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > bettas should get along just fine with other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > :) You want to look for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > store that doesn't sell their bettas in those tiny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > cups, though, so that you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > have better chances of getting a betta that has been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > socialized and gotten used
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to being in a tank with other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Ever look close at the ingredients of Tetra Min
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > flakes? As I look at my Tetra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Color package, the first ingredient listed is "fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > meal" ... ooh yummy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ground up fish. That's meat. Shrimp meal and fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > oil are also listed in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ingredients. So I'm not surprised that bettas are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > able to "make do" by eating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tropical flake food.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > my LiveJournal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2722 From: Cathey Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "I have an albino clawed frog in another tank and he is pushy but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  leaves the fish and dwarf frogs alone for the most part."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is your clawed frog still little? If so, that's why he doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bully the others... I belong to quite a few ACF groups, and I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  yet to hear of an adult ACF who didn't tear apart and eat the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish/dwarf frogs in the tank--so if yours is full grown, please let
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  me know so I can spread the news of the miracle! LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That is very bizarre--how long have they lived together??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2723 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: S A L T
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- Ray Wetzel <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > There seems to be much controversy concerning salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > (sodium chloride)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > in the aquarium. I am not an advocate of regular use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > of salt in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > aquarium water,but it does have its uses. Most

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You mention several great things about salt and no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  real disadvantages. So I guess my question is why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  don't you use it?



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2724 From: Patrick Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It is pH Down that I got with a bottle of pH tester From Doc Wellfish a little over a year ago.  It says it is Sodium Hydroxide. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2725 From: Cathey Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Loaches are a No-Go--any other suggestions??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I can't use the clown loaches (and I'm assuming any other loaches,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    if they're all similar in this aspect) because of the barbs they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have on their face--this could be harmful to my clawed frogs, who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tend to nip at the faces of other creatures.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any other suggestions on how to get rid of the snails, other than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    removing by hand? (Which I am, indeed, trying to do... just making
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    little headway)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Cathey, the Froggy Mommy who is angry with her froggy kids for not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    eating the baby snails like everyone SAID they would!!!! haha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2726 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Loaches are a No-Go--any other suggestions??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i find my bubblegum parrots are EXTREMELY adept at destroying snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    populations. on top of that, they're docile and hardy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 23, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Cathey wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I can't use the clown loaches (and I'm assuming any other loaches,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > if they're all similar in this aspect) because of the barbs they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have on their face--this could be harmful to my clawed frogs, who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tend to nip at the faces of other creatures.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Any other suggestions on how to get rid of the snails, other than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > removing by hand? (Which I am, indeed, trying to do... just making
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > little headway)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ~Cathey, the Froggy Mommy who is angry with her froggy kids for not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > eating the baby snails like everyone SAID they would!!!! haha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bored? fear not! hit up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you know you want to....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2727 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > they do better than make do, they thrive. bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > enjoy plant life in their diet. so that would make
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them omnivores. they love to nibble the roots of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plant, an the leaves of anacharis. telling new

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Are you sure about this? You are very knowledgeable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    so I'm sure you know what you are talking about but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've never seen a Betta touch a plant or it's roots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and have only heard of them doing it if starved. (Of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    course the people who sell the Betta in a vase setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    try to make it sound like they are vegetarians.)




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2728 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: New to the Group - With Boring Newbie Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Bettas are in fact carnivorous: while not a fish eater, their main
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    diet in their wild habitats of Burma and Cambodia are mosquito
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    larvae. They are not plant eaters (Herbivores) nor are they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Omnivores. They do appreciate a good protein diet, and while a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    flake food may sustain them, foods such as frozen bloodworms, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    should be included in their diet for best growth and condition. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2729 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: pH (was Re: Whatever works)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings. I would like to share my experience with pH Down from Doc Wellfish. I found out the hard way that this product apparently does not keep well over time. I used a bottle that I had kept for a little over a year and it had become ineffective at lowering the pH.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 12:04 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:pH (was Re: Whatever works)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It is pH Down that I got with a bottle of pH tester From Doc Wellfish a little over a year ago.  It says it is Sodium Hydroxide. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2730 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New to the Group - With Boring Newbie Questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes Bettas do indeed breath atmosphic air (through their labyrinth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      organs). But that doesn't mean that their gills can't be burnt (and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      damaged) from high ammonia concentrations. Ammonia will burn the gill
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      membranes of any fish!. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2731 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 257
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ray, I did a fishless cycle in my 10 gallon , with clear household ammonia from my local grocery store (Keith, if you go this route do not use sudsing ammonia or scented ammonia). I planted aponogeton bulbs (from Walmart) first, which may have speeded up the cycle a bit as they feed off ammonia. It cost me a whopping $1.37 for the ammonia, and I still have almost a whole 1/2 gal container left to mop my floors with. I added 1 cap full per day until Nitrites were at 5 ppm, then at 1/2 cap full per day through the day before I added my fish. I was able to add 2 fish on day 18 and added 3 more the next week; both ammonia and nitrite levels were zero and my single 50% water change at the end of the cycle got the nitrates down to 40 ppm. I had no patience for waiting for fish food to break down - I tried that at first, and after a week the wafers were still intact. - Audrey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message: 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 15:02:21 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: sevenspringss@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Paul, It appears that you are an advocate of "fish-less" cycles. I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      quite understand why you included part of my reply, except possibly to let Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      see that you aren't the only one who thinks this way. I did mention to Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that I think he should wait at least another three weeks before introducing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish. As Keith does seem a little "itchy" to get fish in there by his remark of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "I don't plan to populate the tank until next week", I did mention he might
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      add a couple of hardy fish; they should also be inexpensive as they may succumb
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to ammonia poisoning (Keith -- please do not rush things). Many beginning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      aquarists give in to this temptation. It is generally recommended not to add any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish until after the tank cycles. While it is known that this cycle will take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      from 4 to 6 weeks, the cycle can be completed in 4 weeks. Much has to do with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the temperature (raise the temperature for a faster cycle). If you already have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      an established aquarium, transfer some of that filter medium to the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank's filter if possible. Otherwise, add some protein (food) to start the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are products on the market (bacteria???), to help jump start this cycle,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      most of which are worthless. There is one company (Enviro-Reps) whose liquid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      product does work. As far as spiking: the ammonia will spike first in the cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      at a little over 7 days. During the next 3 days, it will drop down to about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2/3 of the high level and remain there for another 4 days after which time it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      will start tapering off. The nitrite level will spike at around 2 1/2 weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      into the cycle and start tapering from there. This is pretty much the picture of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the cycle, in general. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2732 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i agree, all of the research i've done indicates that the reason the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bettas eat the roots of anacharis is because generally people don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      feed them in those planters and they are starving.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      On Jun 23, 2004, at 12:19 PM, Todd Fields wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > they do better than make do, they thrive.  bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > enjoy plant life in their diet.  so that would make
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > them omnivores.  they love to nibble the roots of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > plant, an the leaves of anacharis.  telling new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Are you sure about this?  You are very knowledgeable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > so I'm sure you know what you are talking about but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I've never seen a Betta touch a plant or it's roots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > and have only heard of them doing it if starved.  (Of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > course the people who sell the Betta in a vase setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > try to make it sound like they are vegetarians.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >      
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bored? fear not! hit up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you know you want to....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2733 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: How-to (DIY) Freshwater-banana´s farm with pics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Visit this link and see the farm of  Freshwater-banana´s with pics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sory, my poor english this is not a comercial (fake) its realy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2734 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: carnivores and bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 6/23/2004 12:01:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      telling new people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that they are carnvores will make them think that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      are like a t rex and crave meat.---


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Only if they are children who do not know how to look in a dictionary and see the definition of the word "carnivore".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      carnivore - 1. any of an order of fanged, flesh-eating mammals, including the dog, bear, cat, and seal. 2. any animal that consumes other animals. 3. a plant that ingests small animals, esp. insects.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      betta - any of a genus (Betta) of brightly colored gouramies of SE Asia, esp. an aquarium species.  (B. splendens)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In addition, every site I've read about Bettas has said that they eat insects, and also that those stupid "Betta and plant in a vase" things are a big rip off because the betta will NOT nibble on the plant. LiveAquaria.com on THEIR page about Bettas says "A carnivore, the Betta will eat all types of live food as well as freeze-dried flakes and frozen foods."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It ALSO states that Bettas will live quite happily in a tank with other fish. It says that they prefer a densely planted tank. My daughter's betta has a live plant (aponogeton) in there with it, and it never nibbles the leaves. It likes to swim amongst the leaves, and hide in there, but it does not eat them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Oh, but I'm no expert, I just research endlessly. I can always learn more, but I don't see any proof other than your word that bettas are omnivores; every other source I've seen has listed them as carnivores.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Being a carnivore is NOT the same thing as being aggressive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2735 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New to the Group - With Boring Newbie Questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You're quite right about a change of 2 on the pH scale (from pH 8.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to pH 6.0 for instance) not affecting the fish as long as its done
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      gradually -- over many days. But, while there are freshwater fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      which naturally live in a high pH of 9.0 (Lake Tanganyican Cichlids)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and a low pH of 5.0 (Discus, Featherfin Tetras), I would not say its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      safe for ordinary aquarium fish to be subjected to extremes as high
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      as pH 9.0 or as low as pH 5.0. Ordinary aquarium fish may well come
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      down with a condition called "Acidosis" which can be fatal if left in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      such a low pH range. Fortunately, the condition is reverseable if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pH is gradually raised. If ordinary aquarium fish are subjected to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pH of over pH 8.5, there is a risk they will develop "Alkalosis"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (noticed by a radical increase in sliminess & loss of appetite). This
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      condition is hard to reverse once it occurs and can result in death.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Note: I am not talking about a sudden pH "crash"; Ordinary aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish will not survive long at these extremes. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2736 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re; new to the group - with boring newbie questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Please refer to my post #2660 in which I suggest several more postive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      alternate methods of starting the ammonia cycle, such as adding some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      type of protein or fish foods added to break down, adding bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and causing an ammonia build-up. Most tap water now contains
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      chloramines or at least chlorine and there is very little bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      contained in it. Without adding any organic material, what are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bacteria going to feed on? I believe that just using tap water and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      letting it sit without adding anything else might take a year and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      day for it to establish a cycle if it does at all. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2737 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Jessica, I recommend that you read the many messages in this forum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that have been posted over the last few days on these very topics. As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you are apparently aware of needing to cycle the tank, its best to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      wait until the tank is cycled before adding any fish. Cycling will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      take from 4 to 6 weeks, and can be speeded up somewhat by turning up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      your heater and raising the temperature (mid 80's or so). You can add
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a couple of inexpensive fish (which should be considered expendable)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      or throw in some fish food to really get the cycle going. Make tests
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (ammonia and nitrite) near four weeks. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2738 From: Seti Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Otto's and cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Here's a website on the Otos:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.otocinclus.com/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      They're peaceful fish who like company of their own kind. I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      think they're bottom feeders as much as they're algae eaters. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      recommended to get them only if you have enough algae for them to eat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Corys are the bottom-feeding fish, but they eat scraps of food that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      falls to the bottom, not poop.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~~Seti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "iloveguppies"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > While reading i see you guys say to use otto's. are these the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > little sucker fish? I found two pictures and they kinda look like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the ones they sell here. Do they actually eat the poop that falls to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the bottom? and would they get along ok with cory cats. also i made
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the mistake of buying a plant called a green hedge (that was in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > fish tank) than after i brought it home i looked it up and it turns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > out it is a plant that only likes it's roots in the water (for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > terrariums)and will die in about a month of tank life. and here i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > thought it would be perfect for the baby fry. there's a picture in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > melanie's pics. MELANIE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2739 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: What is invading my tank?? PLEASE HELP! - Clown Loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cathy, Although Clown Loaches do get to 12", they are not fast
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      growers. It will take them years to get to that size, In the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      meantime, enjoy them; you can always trade them back to the the local
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish store. Several things to remember, besides their needing to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in a group of two or three, is (1) do not ever use a dye medication
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      with them if you should get Ich in the tank (it will kill them), (2)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      they have a habit of laying on their sides looking "dead"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      occasionally, so don't let that spook you. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2740 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Newbie stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Well, sounds like thing are fired up in here today, AWESOME. I love it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      when people express their belief's with a passion. My two cents at this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      point are, go to a reputable Mom and Pop store, look at the filters they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      have running in their tanks. If any of them are the same as your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      filter, offer to buy a new cartridge so you can have the old one. This
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      will super jump start your biological "cycle". If you are unsuccessful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in your quest for the same used cartridge, see if they use a floss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      prefilter anywhere and ask if you can have a chunk. If they say no,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      stop shopping at their store, any quality store will share their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bacteria with you. Oh, and let them know why you won't shop there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      anymore. The final bit of info to jump start a tank is Bio Spira by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Marineland. It's hard to find, due to it's short shelf life and it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      need for refrigeration, but it will cycle a tank to 3/4 capacity in two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      weeks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2741 From: Seti Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you have access to stuff from an established tank (filter cartridge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      or gravel, for example), that would help to "jump-start" the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Other than that, you just have to let nature take its course. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      choose to cycle with fish, you can add a couple of "hardy" fish (like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      zebra danios), they will produce ammonia needed to start and maintain
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the growth of bacteria. If you go with the "fishless cycle", you could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      add some fish food to your tank daily, in this case the decomposing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      food will be the source of ammonia. Test your water regularly, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      after your ammonia, and then nitrites go to 0 then you know your tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      is cycled.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~~Seti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "jess_babs_07"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <jess_babs_07@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Ok, I just got my fish tank Monday and I set it up with the filter,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > air pump, and heater. Now I am trying to find some way to speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the cycle my tank has to go through. And what fish I can start to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in and when. I have a 10 gallon tank (srry if I repeat) and would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > like to have a variety of freshwater fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2742 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: S A L T
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Todd, You ask a very good and sensible question. For the most part, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      don't use salt. Why? -- I maintain my tanks (and give them nearly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      100% water change gradually over the period of a week) and see to it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that I have no ammonia build-up to worry about, where salt would come
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in handy. There is an occasional tank that might start to increase in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ammonia content, and yes, I do add salt on those occasions, after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      making an additional water change. With almost 85 tanks its sometimes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      difficult to keep on top of things all the times. I test for ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      once a week (twice a week in more populated tanks). I don't remember
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      having Ich (luckily) in over 40 years so haven't had to add it for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that. I do use it for domestic (not wild) Discus. Immediately after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the eggs hatch, I add 2 tsps. of salt (1 tsp/day) per gallon with my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Pigeon Blood Discus which promotes the slime coating on the parents'
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sides which the fry need to feed on. There are several strains of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Discus (including Pigeon Blood) which are said to be impossible to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      raise (because they don't normally produce enough body slime). As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      such many Discus breeders use one Pigeon Blood parent and one Cobalt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Blue or Turquoise parent. Most other Discus strains of course do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      have that problem. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2743 From: bryants4god Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Terri Bryant!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I post them, hopefully will have an answer today.  If so I will post it here because I am sure everyone wants to know what they are.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Cathey [mailto:catheylove@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 10:57 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Terri Bryant!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "I am a lurker but I raise snails and those are not ramshorns eggs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I can post the picture on a list I am on but only with your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      permission."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes, PLEASE post the pictures!!!  I really want to know what species
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      these little guys are!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks so much,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~Cathey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2744 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 258
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Any medication used to kill snails will poison your frogs. Their flesh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      is semi-permiable and will absorb the poison that'd kill the snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You might want to break the tank down but leave your filtration alone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      or you'll be cycling again. Also not good for the frogs. Send me an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      e-mail at Bucks_Boogie@... and I will send you a link to join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      about frogs, it's called ClawedFrogCorner, but I can' think of the whole
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      name, so I'll just send a digest to your email. It was started by one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of my store customers, who's a heck of a knowledgable frog guy. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      suggest a digest, though, 25-50 messages a day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2745 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: pH (Was: Whatever Works)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, since my pH Down bottle is only 9 months old, it looks like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      they changed the contents. Then again, I don't know how long my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bottle was on the shelf in my local store. It may be older than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      yours! Anyway, looks like the ingredients have been changed. Maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      someone has a newer bottle and can tell us what's now in it. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2746 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest #257
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Audrey, Good tip. I have read that, but have never tried it. Can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      argue with success! Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2747 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      here my pictures of my nano planted aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2748 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Help me please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but would love so real human help besides reading articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      reading and pictures, I think its from the water levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      not acting well. All this work was done last night and little today.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2749 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I fed my Corys food for bottom feeders, and for a long period of time, chopped earthworms at supper. I never considered feeding them, or believed I was feeding them by expecting them to eat whatever was left after Plattys ate, etc. It's sort of like expecting us to eat what birds drop, bottom dwellers to eat leftovers.You must be sure your fish are fed the best you can supply, no matter where they swim.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2750 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Help me please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        load that tank up with live bacteria and stress coat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        sounds like a bacterial infection, and removing that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        much water is just going to shock those fish. never
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        do more than 25% at a time unless you are changing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        water frequently and not allowing it to build up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        nitrates and ammonia. frequent large changes are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fine, but trying to fix a tank by wiping out its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        biology is the wrong thing to do. you can try pima
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fix or melafix as well. they work well--- hazyhumid2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <my-destiny@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > but would love so real human help besides reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > not acting well. All this work was done last night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2751 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Re; new to the group - with boring newbie questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i can tell you from 12 years of experience that it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        does work, and works well. i maintain 40 tanks at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        work, all of which were started that way, and all i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        have to do is to top off the water and change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        cartridges once a month. in addition i run a 120
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        gallon reef, a 7 gallon salt water, a 55 gallon fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and a 20 gallon fresh at home. all were started fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        less and foodless. only thing used was stress zyme on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the 1st 7th and 14th days.--- Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please refer to my post #2660 in which I suggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > several more postive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > alternate methods of starting the ammonia cycle,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > such as adding some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > type of protein or fish foods added to break down,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > adding bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and causing an ammonia build-up. Most tap water now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > contains
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > chloramines or at least chlorine and there is very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > little bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > contained in it. Without adding any organic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > material, what are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bacteria going to feed on? I believe that just using
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tap water and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > letting it sit without adding anything else might
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > take a year and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > day for it to establish a cycle if it does at all.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2752 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New to the Group - With Boring Newbie Questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i agree with you for the most part ray,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        not quite on what ph you consider safe, i would say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that the 5-9 range is not a big deal for most fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        but principles and results, i whole heartedly agree.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i found out about the acidosis problem from using too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        much lava. i used crushed lave as a substrate. tap
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        water in the sf bay area comes out at about 9. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank ph ended up being at about 3. the lava was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        reducing it that far. shocking i know, but i tested
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it several times to check it. it ran stable for about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        4 months on each trial, but ended up at 3-4 in the end
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        every time.--- Ray Wetzel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <sevenspringss@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > You're quite right about a change of 2 on the pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > scale (from pH 8.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > to pH 6.0 for instance) not affecting the fish as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > long as its done
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > gradually -- over many days. But, while there are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > freshwater fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > which naturally live in a high pH of 9.0 (Lake
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Tanganyican Cichlids)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and a low pH of 5.0 (Discus, Featherfin Tetras), I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > would not say its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > safe for ordinary aquarium fish to be subjected to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > extremes as high
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > as pH 9.0 or as low as pH 5.0. Ordinary aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fish may well come
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > down with a condition called "Acidosis" which can be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fatal if left in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > such a low pH range. Fortunately, the condition is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reverseable if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > pH is gradually raised. If ordinary aquarium fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > are subjected to a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > pH of over pH 8.5, there is a risk they will develop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > "Alkalosis"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (noticed by a radical increase in sliminess & loss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > of appetite). This
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > condition is hard to reverse once it occurs and can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > result in death.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Note: I am not talking about a sudden pH "crash";
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ordinary aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fish will not survive long at these extremes. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2753 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: carnivores and bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        erin,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        did i say anything about eating apogea leaves....hmm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        lets see...NO, i said they nibble on roots of plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and i have encountered dozens that eat the leaves of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        anacharis.....read a little closer sweet heart. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        never said anything about a beta in a vase either. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        did not say that they survive on plants. i said they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        liek to nibble on them!--- Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 6/23/2004 12:01:38 PM Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Standard Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > telling new people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that they are carnvores will make them think that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > are like a t rex and crave meat.---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Only if they are children who do not know how to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > look in a dictionary and see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the definition of the word "carnivore".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > carnivore - 1. any of an order of fanged,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > flesh-eating mammals, including the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > dog, bear, cat, and seal. 2. any animal that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > consumes other animals. 3. a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > plant that ingests small animals, esp. insects.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > betta - any of a genus (Betta) of brightly colored
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > gouramies of SE Asia, esp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > an aquarium species. (B. splendens)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > In addition, every site I've read about Bettas has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > said that they eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > insects, and also that those stupid "Betta and plant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in a vase" things are a big rip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > off because the betta will NOT nibble on the plant.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > LiveAquaria.com on THEIR
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > page about Bettas says "A carnivore, the Betta will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > eat all types of live food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > as well as freeze-dried flakes and frozen foods."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > It ALSO states that Bettas will live quite happily
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in a tank with other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > It says that they prefer a densely planted tank. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > daughter's betta has a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > live plant (aponogeton) in there with it, and it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > never nibbles the leaves. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > likes to swim amongst the leaves, and hide in there,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > but it does not eat them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Oh, but I'm no expert, I just research endlessly. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > can always learn more,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > but I don't see any proof other than your word that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bettas are omnivores; every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > other source I've seen has listed them as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > carnivores.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Being a carnivore is NOT the same thing as being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > aggressive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > my LiveJournal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2754 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the whole vase thing is a hoax. the only reason that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        those eben sold well is because bettas can easily
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        survive for 2 weeks without food. the poeple would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        lose their fish shortly there after and think they did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        something wrong. i was talking about one type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        plant that i have watched 100's of bettas chew on.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        these bettas were all fed daily. none were starving.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the vases that were sold many places usually had some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        variety of lilly on top. i am talking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        anacharis. i do not mean to say that they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        vegetarians. i was juts making a point that someone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        new to the hobby may take the carnivore description
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the wrong way. many people rely on advice and are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        going to run to a dictionary to look up everything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > i agree, all of the research i've done indicates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that the reason the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bettas eat the roots of anacharis is because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > generally people don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > feed them in those planters and they are starving.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > On Jun 23, 2004, at 12:19 PM, Todd Fields wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > they do better than make do, they thrive.�
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > enjoy plant life in their diet.� so that would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > make
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > them omnivores.� they love to nibble the roots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > plant, an the leaves of anacharis.� telling new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Are you sure about this?� You are very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > knowledgeable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > so I'm sure you know what you are talking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I've never seen a Betta touch a plant or it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > roots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > and have only heard of them doing it if starved.�
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (Of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > course the people who sell the Betta in a vase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > try to make it sound like they are vegetarians.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > �����
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ����� �����
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2755 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Loaches are a No-Go--any other suggestions??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        good to know....didn't know they ate snails.---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > i find my bubblegum parrots are EXTREMELY adept at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > destroying snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > populations. on top of that, they're docile and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > hardy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > On Jun 23, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Cathey wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I can't use the clown loaches (and I'm assuming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > any other loaches,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > if they're all similar in this aspect) because of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the barbs they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > have on their face--this could be harmful to my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > clawed frogs, who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > tend to nip at the faces of other creatures.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Any other suggestions on how to get rid of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > snails, other than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > removing by hand? (Which I am, indeed, trying to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > do... just making
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > little headway)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Thanks...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ~Cathey, the Froggy Mommy who is angry with her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > froggy kids for not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > eating the baby snails like everyone SAID they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > would!!!! haha
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2756 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cathey wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Is your clawed frog still little?  If so, that's why he doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >bully the others... I belong to quite a few ACF groups, and I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >yet to hear of an adult ACF who didn't tear apart and eat the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >fish/dwarf frogs in the tank--so if yours is full grown, please let
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >me know so I can spread the news of the miracle! LOL 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >That is very bizarre--how long have they lived together??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From what I have read he is probably between 9 months and one year.  He is about 3 inches from nose to top of thigh and has been in the tank for about 6 months now.  I hand feed him frozen brine or bloodworms every day and have done so since I added him to the tank. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        He is in a planted tank with three dwarf goraumis, two black ghost knife, three platys, three dwarf frogs, and a clown pleco.  Other than stampeding over everyone else when the light is turned on and shoving them out of the way to get the food he doesn’t intentionally mess with any of them.  Two of the dwarf frogs are small enough to make an easy snack.  I was kind of wary when I put him in and kept watching as he grew for some damage or something to disappear but nothing yet.  Though, I have to admit he stares out at you when you are in the room basically begging for food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From the sound of it I have been really lucky!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Michelle in PDX

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2757 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Loaches are a No-Go--any other suggestions??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        in an earlier post you said you had more than one tank, why not remove your frogs to another tank while the loaches do there work, the sizes that clown loaches will attain are being greatly exaggerated, they may reach these sizes in the wild, I have 10 in various tanks, the two oldest, about four years are about 5 inches and live in a 125 imperial gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         unclenorm.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i find my bubblegum parrots are EXTREMELY adept at destroying snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        populations. on top of that, they're docile and hardy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        On Jun 23, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Cathey wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I can't use the clown loaches (and I'm assuming any other loaches,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > if they're all similar in this aspect) because of the barbs they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > have on their face--this could be harmful to my clawed frogs, who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tend to nip at the faces of other creatures.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Any other suggestions on how to get rid of the snails, other than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > removing by hand? (Which I am, indeed, trying to do... just making
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > little headway)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ~Cathey, the Froggy Mommy who is angry with her froggy kids for not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > eating the baby snails like everyone SAID they would!!!! haha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2758 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Help me please/test kit!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well guess what...I took a water sample in to the supply store to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tested and to get help on what I did...everything was PERFECT except
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the pH level was LOW LOW LOW.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You all can give me some insight on this because, I kept adding ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        reducer because my test kit was giving me max(maybe more but that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        all it would test go up to) 7.4 and after treatments it went shortly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        down to 7.2, then back up an hour or two later, that is why I did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the desperate water change, and would repeat above.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So, to me it apears this is a faulty test kit (wardley senior deluxe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ph test kit, not expired), caused me to drop thier ph down to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        dangerous levels. Looks like thier levels were perfect to start with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        (I am not sure but the rest is great now), then I went and tried to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        kill them unknowingly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I did purchase a new test strip kit, which read the same levels as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the store read the sample I brought in...once I got home to double
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        check. This bad wardley kit is showing me 7.4 again. HMMMM>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Anyway, to calm you some :) I am new at judging how much water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        change and I think we did more 30-35%, I know it wasnt a whole half
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        counting above the gravel line... and the fish seemed very happy for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        an hour or two after it until I started testing and seeing the ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        still to high and continued my attempts to lower it last night and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        today, after the water change.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Now, should I assume the white spots are ich? or its from the faulty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        test expirence? I do believe I saw very few white spots before this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fiasco but right now they are nearly covered, so maybe they had it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        before and I added more stress on them by dropping the ph. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        treat for ich also along with raising the ph or wait and see?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As far as a consumer of this product, is this common? bad test kits?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Should I return/complain? Still to worried about the fish right now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        but I see anger kicking in later.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also would your opinion/advice below be the same now after what I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote above?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > load that tank up with live bacteria and stress coat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > sounds like a bacterial infection, and removing that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > much water is just going to shock those fish. never
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > do more than 25% at a time unless you are changing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > water frequently and not allowing it to build up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > nitrates and ammonia. frequent large changes are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fine, but trying to fix a tank by wiping out its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > biology is the wrong thing to do. you can try pima
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fix or melafix as well. they work well--- hazyhumid2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > <my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > but would love so real human help besides reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > not acting well. All this work was done last night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2759 From: Cathey Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That's fantastic!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Is it alright if I share your last post with my frog group??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2760 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Help me please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What are you using to test your pH? Of course it all depends on what type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish you are keeping but 7.0 in generally the best pH level. The white spots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        you describe sound like ick to me. I would treat for ick asap.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hope this helps.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Gary

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- hazyhumid2<my-destiny@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > but would love so real human help besides reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > not acting well. All this work was done last night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2761 From: red-eye Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: live plants help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have tried the dwarft lily as well and they grow slower  & lower, sending an average of 1 leaf per week to the surface. I planted 6a few in one area of the tank - L@@ks good



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          At 12:32 PM 6/20/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               They have another type of plant bulb that has just recently shown up that replaced the former "dwarf lillies" that show a reddish plant.  I have identified them as red tiger lotus.  I bought 2 packs, and got 3 plants between them.  I figure that is still not much more than just buying the plants if you can find them.  Rarely does a floater sprout.  It took one of them over a month.  I just kept the bulbs in a cup of water until something happened.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http //groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i liek the hardy apo too, but i have found the dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lillies to be really nice too.  they come in the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          type of package, grow a little taller and a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          quicker, and flower at the top of the tank.  they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          available at walmart

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2762 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help me please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi, Thanks. I just posted an update a short while ago...you might be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          reading it now. The kit I WAS using is Wardley, it had the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bottle with the two drops thingy in it. I just purchased mardel test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          trips which are testing accurate to what they store tested my water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          at...which wardley was/is giving incorrect readings.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the store suggested these tablets for ick, but suggested thier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          problem is probably caused by me dropping the ph so low, I dont have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the maker next to me but they are fizz tablets 1 per 10 gallon to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          use, it says less if they are weak or smaller. Does anyone suggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          me not using these? I am now learning to be leary of products.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I havent done anything yet but I did buy it, someone give me the go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ahead to drop these in?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Calhoun"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <calhoung@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > What are you using to test your pH? Of course it all depends on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          what type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish you are keeping but 7.0 in generally the best pH level. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          white spots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > you describe sound like ick to me. I would treat for ick asap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Hope this helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- hazyhumid2<my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > but would love so real human help besides reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > not acting well. All this work was done last night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2763 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: carnivores and bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 6/23/2004 5:43:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          did i say anything about eating apogea leaves....hmm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lets see...NO, i said they nibble on roots of plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and i have encountered dozens that eat the leaves of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          anacharis...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I didn't say that you said they ate aponogeton leaves. I simply stated what MY experience was with the betta that we have. I also stated that I'm no expert.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2764 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help me please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Either I have'nt been following your problem, or the information you've emailed is'nt enough to make a diagnosis/recommendation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I believe you mentioned loss of scales, and apprehension about the possibility it may not be ick. Low PH could cause loss of scales, and the white spots must be identified before you consider a treatment. The spots you were doubtful about could be bacteria or fungus breakouts, because of loss of slime-coat. With the loss of scales, bacteria and fungus have a ripe habitat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Is there a fuzzy appearance to the white areas? Are they spreading/growing together?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The only fizz products I know of are made by Jungle-Labs, 'tho I don't know if that's what you have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Can you post pictures?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          PS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Don't rush into treating for ick until you're sure about your problem.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Hi, Thanks. I just posted an update a short while ago...you might be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > reading it now. The kit I WAS using is Wardley, it had the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bottle with the two drops thingy in it. I just purchased mardel test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > trips which are testing accurate to what they store tested my water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > at...which wardley was/is giving incorrect readings.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the store suggested these tablets for ick, but suggested thier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > problem is probably caused by me dropping the ph so low, I dont have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the maker next to me but they are fizz tablets 1 per 10 gallon to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > use, it says less if they are weak or smaller. Does anyone suggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > me not using these? I am now learning to be leary of products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I havent done anything yet but I did buy it, someone give me the go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ahead to drop these in?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Calhoun"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > <calhoung@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > What are you using to test your pH? Of course it all depends on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > what type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > fish you are keeping but 7.0 in generally the best pH level. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > white spots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > you describe sound like ick to me. I would treat for ick asap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Hope this helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > --- hazyhumid2<my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > but would love so real human help besides reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > not acting well. All this work was done last night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2765 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help me please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Been thinking about your problem, and 'tho acidic water ciould have caused your fish problem, you did'nt mention testing for ammonia or NITRITE. Both of those could have caused the problems with fish appearance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Joe P


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Hi, Thanks. I just posted an update a short while ago...you might be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > reading it now. The kit I WAS using is Wardley, it had the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bottle with the two drops thingy in it. I just purchased mardel test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > trips which are testing accurate to what they store tested my water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > at...which wardley was/is giving incorrect readings.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the store suggested these tablets for ick, but suggested thier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > problem is probably caused by me dropping the ph so low, I dont have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the maker next to me but they are fizz tablets 1 per 10 gallon to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > use, it says less if they are weak or smaller. Does anyone suggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > me not using these? I am now learning to be leary of products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I havent done anything yet but I did buy it, someone give me the go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ahead to drop these in?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Calhoun"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > <calhoung@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > What are you using to test your pH? Of course it all depends on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > what type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > fish you are keeping but 7.0 in generally the best pH level. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > white spots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > you describe sound like ick to me. I would treat for ick asap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Hope this helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > --- hazyhumid2<my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > but would love so real human help besides reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > not acting well. All this work was done last night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2766 From: keith Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks all for the TREMENDOUS assistance arising from my original newbie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          questions. This is one of the most active Groups I've ever been a member of.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I really appreciate all of the advice and am putting it to good use.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I did want to step in here to share my experience with a betta in a vase.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          One of the reasons I asked about having a betta in my new tank is that I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          still miss Mr. Fish. Received him as a gift and he lived in a vase with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          plant on top about 3 years on my desk at work. He ate betta pellets and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water was only changed when the bottom of the vase got funky - just used
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          room temp distilled water and a 100% water change. Sometimes it looked like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          he was nibbling at the roots, but they weren't really being eaten. He was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          good guy with a great personality and I was feeling sorry for all the guys
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          in a little cup of water on the shelves when I bought my new tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 2:49 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new to the group - with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          boring newbie qu...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the whole vase thing is a hoax. the only reason that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          those eben sold well is because bettas can easily
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          survive for 2 weeks without food. the poeple would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lose their fish shortly there after and think they did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          something wrong. i was talking about one type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          plant that i have watched 100's of bettas chew on.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          these bettas were all fed daily. none were starving.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the vases that were sold many places usually had some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          variety of lilly on top. i am talking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          anacharis. i do not mean to say that they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          vegetarians. i was juts making a point that someone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          new to the hobby may take the carnivore description
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the wrong way. many people rely on advice and are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          going to run to a dictionary to look up everything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i agree, all of the research i've done indicates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > that the reason the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bettas eat the roots of anacharis is because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > generally people don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > feed them in those planters and they are starving.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > On Jun 23, 2004, at 12:19 PM, Todd Fields wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > they do better than make do, they thrive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bettas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > enjoy plant life in their diet. so that would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > make
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > them omnivores. they love to nibble the roots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > plant, an the leaves of anacharis. telling new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Are you sure about this? You are very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > knowledgeable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > so I'm sure you know what you are talking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I've never seen a Betta touch a plant or it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > roots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > and have only heard of them doing it if starved.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (Of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > course the people who sell the Betta in a vase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > try to make it sound like they are vegetarians.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2767 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new to the group - with boring newbie qu...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- keith <keith@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I did want to step in here to share my experience
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with a betta in a vase.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There is nothing wrong with keeping a Betta in a vase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          with a plant. As long as the vase is large, the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          is changed regularly, the roots of the plant are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          trimmed to prevent them from crowding the Betta or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          preventing him from getting air, and he is properly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fed. The problem with the whole Betta in a vase thing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          was the way it was sold. I remember being told at a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          reputable local fish store the same crap you'd expect
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          to hear at Wal-Mart: the Betta eats the plants so no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          need to feed and the plant cleans the water so no need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          for water changes. This was about four years ago and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the same lady still works at that store. They no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          longer sell the Betta/vase setups (the fad seems to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have subsided a little) but I still think about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          confronting her about every now and then.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2768 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help me please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Either I have'nt been following your problem, or the information
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you've emailed is'nt enough to make a diagnosis/recommendation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Probably my lack of info...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I believe you mentioned loss of scales, and apprehension about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the possibility it may not be ick. Low PH could cause loss of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          scales, and the white spots must be identified before you consider a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          treatment. The spots you were doubtful about could be bacteria or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fungus breakouts, because of loss of slime-coat. With the loss of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          scales, bacteria and fungus have a ripe habitat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have only seen ick in photos posted online, it apears to be that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          like sugar/salt sprinkled on them, not as much as I saw in pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          though. While reading about ick and making sure that is what it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          was...I cam across a website that said high levels of ph creates an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          effect that looks like ick and is often misdiagnosed as ick. So I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          used that warley kit...I am not seeing the spots around the scale
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          loss.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Is there a fuzzy appearance to the white areas? Are they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          spreading/growing together?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No,...sprinkles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am curious about ick, after treatment how soon would you see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          improvement?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The only fizz products I know of are made by Jungle-Labs, 'tho
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I don't know if that's what you have.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yes it is Jungle Labs

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Can you post pictures?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Of the fish? I can try, never attempted taking pics of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > PS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Don't rush into treating for ick until you're sure about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          your problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Okay.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Here is the second message

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Been thinking about your problem, and 'tho acidic water ciould have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          caused your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fish problem, you did'nt mention testing for ammonia or NITRITE.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Both of those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          could have caused the problems with fish appearance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Those levels were checked today after getting the right testing kit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and were in normal range. So, honestly I dont know what they were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          two days ago, only had a ph kit, that could have caused it...if they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          can change that fast but they are ok now today.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If I havent clearly given it away, this is new to us. Sold a large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank from a friend who was like an expert (had tons and very old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ones), we were trained, given a tank with gravel that had bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and such in it, told to wait 2 days and go get fish. He made it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sound so simple, even purchase use supplies (no testing kits), said
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          do this and that it every thing would be fine..NOT, I have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stressed for weeks reading and learning after the fact:)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I "thought" we were going good since we hadnt lost one fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          past weeks since the tank was set up...so I assumed we were doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          things right..but I made the mistake of not buying the right testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          kit. Among learning there is sooo much more to it then what we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          were "trained".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for your help, I appreciate this list also..although
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sometimes a bit harsh to hurt the ego (cant I do anything right? :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but it is very helpful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Hi, Thanks. I just posted an update a short while ago...you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          might be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > reading it now. The kit I WAS using is Wardley, it had the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > bottle with the two drops thingy in it. I just purchased mardel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > trips which are testing accurate to what they store tested my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > at...which wardley was/is giving incorrect readings.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > the store suggested these tablets for ick, but suggested thier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > problem is probably caused by me dropping the ph so low, I dont
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > the maker next to me but they are fizz tablets 1 per 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > use, it says less if they are weak or smaller. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          suggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > me not using these? I am now learning to be leary of products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I havent done anything yet but I did buy it, someone give me the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ahead to drop these in?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Calhoun"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > <calhoung@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > What are you using to test your pH? Of course it all depends
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > what type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > fish you are keeping but 7.0 in generally the best pH level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > white spots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > you describe sound like ick to me. I would treat for ick asap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Hope this helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > --- hazyhumid2<my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > but would love so real human help besides reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > not acting well. All this work was done last night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2769 From: Sharla Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Is this Ich/Ick?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I just took pic’s to help you help me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2770 From: Sharla Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Another photo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hopefully you can see with these two…thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2771 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Another photo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hI,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But where, under which folder have you saved the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              photos ??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Sharla <my-destiny@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hopefully you can see with these two.thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=fishphoto6.23.04
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              012.jpg





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2772 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Help me please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just stopped keeping fishes, but had tanks for 10 or 15 years or so, and have never had a problem with Ick, so I have about as much ability as you in identifying it. The Jungle product should give you an indication of what the time-frame would be. They have a website, and an 800 number you could take advantage of. I've called in the past and even talked with a biologist. I don't know about their corporate setup, but their founder purportedly began buying sick, unwanted fishes, and developing material to bring them back to health. I've used their products, and have found them to be very useful.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've noticed a tendency in my writing and temperament that needs a lot of attention to ameliorate irritability. If I've written anything to discourage you in your seemingly obvious attempts to improve your situation, I'm sorry. Sounds like you've been hit with the equivalent of a freight-train.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Either I have'nt been following your problem, or the information
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > you've emailed is'nt enough to make a diagnosis/recommendation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Probably my lack of info...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I believe you mentioned loss of scales, and apprehension about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the possibility it may not be ick. Low PH could cause loss of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > scales, and the white spots must be identified before you consider a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > treatment. The spots you were doubtful about could be bacteria or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fungus breakouts, because of loss of slime-coat. With the loss of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > scales, bacteria and fungus have a ripe habitat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have only seen ick in photos posted online, it apears to be that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > like sugar/salt sprinkled on them, not as much as I saw in pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > though. While reading about ick and making sure that is what it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > was...I cam across a website that said high levels of ph creates an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > effect that looks like ick and is often misdiagnosed as ick. So I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > used that warley kit...I am not seeing the spots around the scale
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > loss.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Is there a fuzzy appearance to the white areas? Are they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > spreading/growing together?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > No,...sprinkles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I am curious about ick, after treatment how soon would you see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > improvement?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > The only fizz products I know of are made by Jungle-Labs, 'tho
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I don't know if that's what you have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yes it is Jungle Labs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Can you post pictures?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Of the fish? I can try, never attempted taking pics of them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > PS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Don't rush into treating for ick until you're sure about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > your problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Okay.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Here is the second message
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Been thinking about your problem, and 'tho acidic water ciould have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > caused your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish problem, you did'nt mention testing for ammonia or NITRITE.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Both of those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > could have caused the problems with fish appearance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Those levels were checked today after getting the right testing kit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and were in normal range. So, honestly I dont know what they were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > two days ago, only had a ph kit, that could have caused it...if they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > can change that fast but they are ok now today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > If I havent clearly given it away, this is new to us. Sold a large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank from a friend who was like an expert (had tons and very old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ones), we were trained, given a tank with gravel that had bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and such in it, told to wait 2 days and go get fish. He made it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > sound so simple, even purchase use supplies (no testing kits), said
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > do this and that it every thing would be fine..NOT, I have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > stressed for weeks reading and learning after the fact:)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I "thought" we were going good since we hadnt lost one fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > past weeks since the tank was set up...so I assumed we were doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > things right..but I made the mistake of not buying the right testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > kit. Among learning there is sooo much more to it then what we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > were "trained".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks for your help, I appreciate this list also..although
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > sometimes a bit harsh to hurt the ego (cant I do anything right? :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but it is very helpful.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Hi, Thanks. I just posted an update a short while ago...you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > might be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > reading it now. The kit I WAS using is Wardley, it had the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > bottle with the two drops thingy in it. I just purchased mardel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > trips which are testing accurate to what they store tested my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > at...which wardley was/is giving incorrect readings.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the store suggested these tablets for ick, but suggested thier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > problem is probably caused by me dropping the ph so low, I dont
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the maker next to me but they are fizz tablets 1 per 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > use, it says less if they are weak or smaller. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > suggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > me not using these? I am now learning to be leary of products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > I havent done anything yet but I did buy it, someone give me the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > ahead to drop these in?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Calhoun"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > <calhoung@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > What are you using to test your pH? Of course it all depends
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > what type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > fish you are keeping but 7.0 in generally the best pH level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > white spots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > you describe sound like ick to me. I would treat for ick asap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Hope this helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > --- hazyhumid2<my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > but would love so real human help besides reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > not acting well. All this work was done last night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2773 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Is this Ich/Ick?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sharla,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 I'd recommend posting those pictures on the Group website, and wait for more info. From what little I know, it could be protozooan, Icthyio parasites, or gold-dust, and I've been hoping some of the OTHER, MUCH MORE EXPERIENCED PEOPLE IN THE LIST WOULD JUMP IN, and those pictures would be a great asset.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   I'm sorry I can't be more help now, but something has allowed that stuff to take hold, and I can't be sure about what to do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 It's 1:49 AM here, and I've got to think about not stumbling around tommorow at work acting like a zombie.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Sharla
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 1:20 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Is this Ich/Ick?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just took pic’s to help you help me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2774 From: paul helms Date: 6/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Help me please/test kit!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              you should absolutely return it if it is before the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              expiration date! and complain....tell them you lost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish and are pissed! lol--- hazyhumid2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <my-destiny@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well guess what...I took a water sample in to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > supply store to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tested and to get help on what I did...everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > was PERFECT except
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the pH level was LOW LOW LOW.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > You all can give me some insight on this because, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > kept adding ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > reducer because my test kit was giving me max(maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > more but that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > all it would test go up to) 7.4 and after treatments
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > it went shortly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > down to 7.2, then back up an hour or two later, that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > is why I did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the desperate water change, and would repeat above.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > So, to me it apears this is a faulty test kit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > (wardley senior deluxe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ph test kit, not expired), caused me to drop thier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ph down to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > dangerous levels. Looks like thier levels were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > perfect to start with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > (I am not sure but the rest is great now), then I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > went and tried to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > kill them unknowingly.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I did purchase a new test strip kit, which read the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > same levels as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the store read the sample I brought in...once I got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > home to double
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > check. This bad wardley kit is showing me 7.4 again.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > HMMMM>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Anyway, to calm you some :) I am new at judging how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > much water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > change and I think we did more 30-35%, I know it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > wasnt a whole half
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > counting above the gravel line... and the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > seemed very happy for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > an hour or two after it until I started testing and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > seeing the ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > still to high and continued my attempts to lower it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > last night and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > today, after the water change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Now, should I assume the white spots are ich? or its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > from the faulty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > test expirence? I do believe I saw very few white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > spots before this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fiasco but right now they are nearly covered, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > maybe they had it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > before and I added more stress on them by dropping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the ph. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > treat for ich also along with raising the ph or wait
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and see?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > As far as a consumer of this product, is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > common? bad test kits?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Should I return/complain? Still to worried about the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish right now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but I see anger kicking in later.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Also would your opinion/advice below be the same now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > after what I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote above?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > load that tank up with live bacteria and stress
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > coat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > sounds like a bacterial infection, and removing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > much water is just going to shock those fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > never
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > do more than 25% at a time unless you are changing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water frequently and not allowing it to build up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > nitrates and ammonia. frequent large changes are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fine, but trying to fix a tank by wiping out its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > biology is the wrong thing to do. you can try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > pima
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fix or melafix as well. they work well---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > hazyhumid2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > but would love so real human help besides
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > started seeing white spots and assumed it was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > looking worse, more like scales are peeling,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > not acting well. All this work was done last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2775 From: bryants4god Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Terri Bryant!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Did you get my email that I need a larger picture?  I have someone who may know what it is but needs a closer look to rule out several other possibilities first.  Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Cathey [mailto:catheylove@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 10:57 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Terri Bryant!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "I am a lurker but I raise snails and those are not ramshorns eggs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I can post the picture on a list I am on but only with your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              permission."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, PLEASE post the pictures!!!  I really want to know what species
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              these little guys are!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks so much,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Cathey



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2776 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Several subjects
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              First, to Ray, VERY rarely will you find the average hobbiest doing 100%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water changes over the course of a week. To even suggest that is in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              opinion, at best is unlikey to occur. It may be a great idea, but as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              far as my life, I work, have kids, parents and in-laws to care for as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              well as other pets. If I had just 3 or 4 tanks, that might be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              plausable, but even then, I'd doubt it would happen. Whether or not you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              choose to add salt is how you like to do it. But what has salt content
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and ammonia have to do with one another as you posed it in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              statement? If I may mirror anothers comment, you state the benefits,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              not the short comings. I've had fish for 37 years now, (don't like the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              getting old portion of this) and started using rock salt about 25 years
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ago (didn't know about kosher or canning salts then and didn't have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              aquarium salt at all). At 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, it replicates the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              natural salt levels of most freshwater bodies of water at .1%. Anyhow,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              about betta's and plant matter, if you kept a dog in a closet long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              enough, might it not try to eat the wallpaper in desperation? This
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ignorant (as in South Park, "That's Ignorant", sorry, couldn't help it)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mentalty sprag from the jackasses that started selling betta vases and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              obviously, the less you feed it the appropriet foods, the cleaner the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water stayed. Thus the dirty, rotten scoundrels suggesting they could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              feed off the roots. What a bunch of @#%$#@$%#$%@#%@$#. Makes me nuts
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              every time I hear about that crap. When a badly informed customer comes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              in, I always ask them "Would you feed your dog paper towels? Would you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              feed you child napkins? Would you feed your grandparents cardboard?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sometimes they get my point. Oh, well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2777 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Is this Ich/Ick?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sharla,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It very well could be. It could also be odonium. Does it look like salt sprinkled on the fish or just scales that are glowing. Are the fish feeding well and how is their behaviour in general?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Since these are bala sharks, you could give them a salt bath of 10 mins in a 5 gal container with 5 tsp of salt (preferred aquarium grade salt, but even table salt should work). Or, you can try raising the temperature of the tank to 31 degrees C for 2-3 days and keeping the lights off for this period. I read an article on the PFK magazine about this process. Seems to be more effecting then just raising the temperature. The only time I had ick was in a rainbow already infected from the fish store. The salt treatment did the trick and ick was off by next day morning.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Sharla [mailto:my-destiny@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 24 June 2004 06:20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Is this Ich/Ick?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just took pic’s to help you help me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stop by and see ~ membership is free!




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2778 From: Smit, Johan (JD) Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Is this Ich/Ick?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It looks to me like scale damage,but I can be wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Sharla [mailto:my-destiny@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:20 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Is this Ich/Ick?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just took pic’s to help you help me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stop by and see ~ membership is free!




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2779 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That is fine with me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What is the name of the frog group?  I would like to join.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              M

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Jun 23, 2004 6:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That's fantastic!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Is it alright if I share your last post with my frog group??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Cathey



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2780 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey everybody,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I finally got a fish for my aquarium. I got a male betta. I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              gonna get more but they weren't saleing till 1 this afternoon and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              am limited to money and access to a car. So I will probably wait to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              get a few more fish till next week or so. I don't have a name for my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              betta yet but he is a real beauty. Of course everyone knows they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              don't really have a variety of betta's at Walmart so I was limited to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what I wanted. In a few weeks I think I will get a 1-2 female
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              betta's. I am so glad I finally got a fish to watch instead of just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              watching water..lol.. I hope he does survive the cycle and lives for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              many years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Jessica

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              P.S.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I finally got a testing kit. It shows that most of Nitrate adn the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrite were Okay and Safe. The Aldalinity was more of a bluish color
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              if I am reading it right which there is no blue color on the chart.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And the pH is either Ideal or Too High, the colors for those two are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              too close its too hard to tell which is which. But I believe it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              too high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2781 From: Cathey Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The two I most frequent are "FroggyFriends" and "ClawedFrogCorner"--
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              FF is more of a casual group, frog owners discussing very basic ACF
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              care/issues, whereas CFC actually has experts who frequent the board
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and will try to assess more serious health issues. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They're both really enjoyable groups, and it's Wonderful to see and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hear about other ACF's--these guys are too funny!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2782 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Several subjects -- FIRST SUBJECT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bucks, I'm a big advocate of water changes. Yes it probably is rare
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that a hobbyist might change 100% of their water weekly, but I know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              of many who do. It is not a big job, nor a time consuming job if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              are set up for it. I have about 85 tanks, or about 2500 gallons in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hatchery and I change about 30% of all the tanks every other day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              which takes me about an hour! I've installed a semi-automatic (I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to throw the switch) permanent siphon overflow set-up of PVC in each
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank which leads to a drain. This devise is like two PVC "U"'s, one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              inverted onto the other over the lip of the tank, which permanently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              holds a siphon, but drains only as the fresh water is added to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank and is "pushed" out the overflow. In this way, I get around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              having to drill all the tanks. I have about 700 gallons of fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water storage space, which I use each time to pump fresh water into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              all the tanks with an overhead PVC feed system, using a 950 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              per hour water pump. The rest is automatic; the tanks are being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              changed as I clean the filters and check out ther fish, looking for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              newly laid spawns to be set up, etc. I do not use my tap water any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              longer, but use my well water instead, so the only cost is running
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the pump which is minimal, but the cold (50 degree) well water takes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              two days to heat up naturally to room temperature; I heat the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hatchery with a house gas space heater to a constant temperature. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2783 From: hartsojb Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Angel Fish Setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, I have absolutely no experience with freshwater Angel Fish, But
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am setting up a new 55 gal tank and was looking at angels as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              main inhabitants. What I was wondering is what other fish would go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              well with angels. Also want it to be a planted tank but not sure of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what plant types or density of them angels will tolerate (current
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              experience with plants is give them to the turtles to devour, so not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              much experience in actually growing them). Any help is appreciated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My current tanks that i have are cichlid/turtle tank, a tetra tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and my good ole bumble bee cat's tank 10 yr old fish that can't get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              along with anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2784 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: New to group and fish problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am new to the group and am just getting my 40 gallon tank set up.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It has been set up now for a month and all tests come back good. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              am starting to add some fish (not too many too soon though). I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              started wShouith 4 Platys and now have 6 Platys, 6 Bloodfin Tetras,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and I just purchased 2 Dwarf Neon Rainbow's and 2 Leopard Cory's. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              problems that 2 of my original Mickey Mouse Platy's have their tail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fins nipped at and one of them is almost gone. The offender is the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              other male Platy. What should I do about these two with the bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fins? Can they be fixed/saved or should I get them out of the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              because they are now susceptible to disease?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2785 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Several subjects -- SECOND SUBJECT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bucks: You write "What has salt content and ammonia have to do with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              one another?" Salt at .3% solution will negate the harmful effects of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ammonia and nitrites. Pleased refer to my previous message (#2717) on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              this subject. A salt solution of .3% will minimize any potential gill
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              damage by inhibiting the intake of ammonia by the fish. Also, a salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              solution of .3% limits the damage done by nitrites to the red blood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cells. Another benefit is that an increased salt solution helps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              prevent certain diseases like Ich from getting established, as it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              acts as a stimulus to the production of additional protective body
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mucus. And, with this advantage, I use salt to stimulate the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              production of needed body slime when breeding two Pigeon Blood Discus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              together which are noted for not producing enough slime to have their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fry feed off of which, except for the salt-induced body slime, would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              normally result in the fry starving out. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2786 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Help me please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for your help. I honestly wasnt taking about your directly :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              promise. I was here a few weeks ago to, and read other posts...its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hard to explain...harsh and helpful at the same time...but I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              still here right? Its not that bad, expertise is worth it. Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I just stopped keeping fishes, but had tanks for 10 or 15 years
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              or so, and have never had a problem with Ick, so I have about as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              much ability as you in identifying it. The Jungle product should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              give you an indication of what the time-frame would be. They have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              website, and an 800 number you could take advantage of. I've called
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              in the past and even talked with a biologist. I don't know about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              their corporate setup, but their founder purportedly began buying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sick, unwanted fishes, and developing material to bring them back to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              health. I've used their products, and have found them to be very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              useful.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've noticed a tendency in my writing and temperament that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              needs a lot of attention to ameliorate irritability. If I've written
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              anything to discourage you in your seemingly obvious attempts to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              improve your situation, I'm sorry. Sounds like you've been hit with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the equivalent of a freight-train.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Either I have'nt been following your problem, or the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              information
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > you've emailed is'nt enough to make a diagnosis/recommendation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Probably my lack of info...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > I believe you mentioned loss of scales, and apprehension
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > the possibility it may not be ick. Low PH could cause loss of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > scales, and the white spots must be identified before you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              consider a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > treatment. The spots you were doubtful about could be bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fungus breakouts, because of loss of slime-coat. With the loss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > scales, bacteria and fungus have a ripe habitat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I have only seen ick in photos posted online, it apears to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > like sugar/salt sprinkled on them, not as much as I saw in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pictures
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > though. While reading about ick and making sure that is what it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > was...I cam across a website that said high levels of ph creates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > effect that looks like ick and is often misdiagnosed as ick. So
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > used that warley kit...I am not seeing the spots around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              scale
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > loss.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Is there a fuzzy appearance to the white areas? Are they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > spreading/growing together?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > No,...sprinkles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I am curious about ick, after treatment how soon would you see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > improvement?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > The only fizz products I know of are made by Jungle-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Labs, 'tho
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I don't know if that's what you have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yes it is Jungle Labs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Can you post pictures?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Of the fish? I can try, never attempted taking pics of them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > PS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > Don't rush into treating for ick until you're sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > your problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Okay.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Here is the second message
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Been thinking about your problem, and 'tho acidic water ciould
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > caused your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fish problem, you did'nt mention testing for ammonia or NITRITE.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Both of those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > could have caused the problems with fish appearance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Those levels were checked today after getting the right testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              kit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and were in normal range. So, honestly I dont know what they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > two days ago, only had a ph kit, that could have caused it...if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > can change that fast but they are ok now today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > If I havent clearly given it away, this is new to us. Sold a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > tank from a friend who was like an expert (had tons and very old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ones), we were trained, given a tank with gravel that had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > and such in it, told to wait 2 days and go get fish. He made it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > sound so simple, even purchase use supplies (no testing kits),
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              said
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > do this and that it every thing would be fine..NOT, I have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > stressed for weeks reading and learning after the fact:)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I "thought" we were going good since we hadnt lost one fish in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > past weeks since the tank was set up...so I assumed we were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > things right..but I made the mistake of not buying the right
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > kit. Among learning there is sooo much more to it then what we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > were "trained".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Thanks for your help, I appreciate this list also..although
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > sometimes a bit harsh to hurt the ego (cant I do anything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              right? :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > but it is very helpful.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Hi, Thanks. I just posted an update a short while ago...you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > might be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > reading it now. The kit I WAS using is Wardley, it had the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > bottle with the two drops thingy in it. I just purchased
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mardel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > trips which are testing accurate to what they store tested
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > at...which wardley was/is giving incorrect readings.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > the store suggested these tablets for ick, but suggested
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              thier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > problem is probably caused by me dropping the ph so low, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              dont
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > the maker next to me but they are fizz tablets 1 per 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > use, it says less if they are weak or smaller. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > suggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > me not using these? I am now learning to be leary of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              products.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > I havent done anything yet but I did buy it, someone give me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > ahead to drop these in?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Calhoun"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > <calhoung@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > What are you using to test your pH? Of course it all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              depends
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > what type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > fish you are keeping but 7.0 in generally the best pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > white spots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > you describe sound like ick to me. I would treat for ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              asap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Hope this helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > --- hazyhumid2<my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > PH level is up, I cant seem to get it down. I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > searching on line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > but would love so real human help besides reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > articles. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > started seeing white spots and assumed it was ick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > but with further
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > reading and pictures, I think its from the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > levels. We did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > 50% water change (55 gallon tank, have that tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > that vacuums out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > the rocks. I have used the Ph reducer testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > hourly, and adding it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > hourly. It doesnt seem to be working, and the white
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > spots are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > looking worse, more like scales are peeling, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > eating well but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > not acting well. All this work was done last night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > and little today.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > > > > What can I do RIGH NOW? Should I vacuum/water again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2787 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re; Several subjects -- THIRD SUBJECT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bucks: I noticed that you commented that I state the benefits of salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and not the shortcomings. Yes, I feel that salt has many benefits,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              such as I pointed out. I can't think of any shortcomings, with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              exception that it may be overused (like anything else), by possibly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              using too strong a solution, or with using it with salt-intolerant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              species. What does your having fish for 37 years have to do with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              anything? I've had fish for 55 years (I'm 65) and have been breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish for 51 of those years, or since I was 14, and feel I can still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              learn as no one knows it all. I don't think any of us like getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              old; I agree with you there! I also noted you saying that "at one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tablespoon per 5 gallons, it (salt solution) replicates the natural
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              salt levels of most freshwater bodies of water at .1%". If most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              freshwater bodies of water have this much salt, then why would you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              want to add more, if the reservoirs and wells where your tap water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              comes from already has this much salt??? While salt has its benefits,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I feel that its not necessary to add salt to normally well maintained
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              aquariums. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2789 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Several subjects -- FOURTH SUBJECT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bucks: Couldn't help but notice your on-the-money comments about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bettas and Plants. I agree with you 100%, but do not understand why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              you addressed those comments to me. If you'll note in my Post # 2728,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I wrote that Bettas are carnivorous and in addition to any flake
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              food, should be given a good protein diet such as frozen bloodworms,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              etc., for their best growth and condition. Reason being, this is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              their similar diet in the wild; their main diet is mosquito larvae in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              their native waterways of Burma and Cambodia. Ray "Getting Older and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Not Especially Liking It -- My Fish Made Me What I Am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2790 From: Cathey Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Michelle in PDX--clawed frog*Warning*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You may not want to join CFC now... I posted your experience,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              thinking it was interesting that you've had no deaths, but of course
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              someone in my group had to get up on her high horse and have a hissy-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fit about your mixing the species.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              She said some really rude things, and I'm thinking about leaving the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              board now, myself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              People should be on these boards to help each other and offer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              advise, not chastise one another.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Cathey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2791 From: Chris Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Bug Bombs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I set off a bug fogger yesterday, away from the tank. The tank was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              covered with plastic bags and alot of duckt tape. Is this the proper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              way to secure your fish/ tank for a bug bombing? Any other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              suggestions will be appreciated. By the way the fish survived!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2792 From: thewheelmanswoman Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Angel Fish Setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "hartsojb"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <jhartsoe@e...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Angelfish are my favorites. You have to remember that they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cichlids and they have the typical cichlid aggressivness when they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pair off and start breeding. I always start with 6 or more small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              angels about nickel size bodies. They are not expensive at that size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and do very well in groups. Enjoy them when they are this small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              because they grow very fast. Within 6-9 months, they will pair off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and defend the territory of their choice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I keep my angels with 4 bushynose plecos, a dozen or so cories, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the a dozen or more of the larger tetras, like columbian blue or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              diamond tetra, but not barbs or black skirt tetras which tend to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              nippy and chase the angels. Stay away from the small tetras like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              neons because they will be fish food before too long.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My tank has only a half inch or so of gravel just to cover the glass,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              some driftwood and plenty of java fern and java moss. This is a low
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              maintenance tank, everyone gets along and I change about 25% of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water with dechlorinated tap water and vacuum 1/2 the gravel every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              week. The ph is about 8 and the water is hard (I live in S FL). I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              have a sponge filter with a powerhead for biological filtration and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              an aquaclear 500 filter. My tank is a 40 gal. breeder with a 24"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              light strip. I get no diseases or deaths.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hope this helps.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Jo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well, I have absolutely no experience with freshwater Angel Fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I am setting up a new 55 gal tank and was looking at angels as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > main inhabitants. What I was wondering is what other fish would go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > well with angels. Also want it to be a planted tank but not sure of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > what plant types or density of them angels will tolerate (current
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > experience with plants is give them to the turtles to devour, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > much experience in actually growing them). Any help is appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > My current tanks that i have are cichlid/turtle tank, a tetra tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and my good ole bumble bee cat's tank 10 yr old fish that can't get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > along with anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2793 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Bug Bombs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I did that a few times, and the fish seemingly suffered no ill effects. Basically, I followed directions for the fish, and duct-taped the bathroom door, keyhole too, in which, during hot months, I have continual exhaust fans running.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I set off a bug fogger yesterday, away from the tank. The tank was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > covered with plastic bags and alot of duckt tape. Is this the proper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > way to secure your fish/ tank for a bug bombing? Any other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > suggestions will be appreciated. By the way the fish survived!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2794 From: paul helms Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New to group and fish problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              melafix repairs damaged fins really quickly. it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              all natural and won't hurt anybody
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              paul--- muskie4817 <muskie4817@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I am new to the group and am just getting my 40
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > gallon tank set up.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > It has been set up now for a month and all tests
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > come back good. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > am starting to add some fish (not too many too soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > though). I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > started wShouith 4 Platys and now have 6 Platys, 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Bloodfin Tetras,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and I just purchased 2 Dwarf Neon Rainbow's and 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Leopard Cory's. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > problems that 2 of my original Mickey Mouse Platy's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > have their tail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fins nipped at and one of them is almost gone. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > offender is the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > other male Platy. What should I do about these two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > with the bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fins? Can they be fixed/saved or should I get them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > out of the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > because they are now susceptible to disease?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2795 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: extremely fat rainbow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hello everyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  One of my rainbow fish is looking exteremely fat and stressed out  his/her scales seem like they are standing up on end.  I used to think it was a preacox rainbow, but his/her fin ends are no loner looking bue/red like praecox, more like yellow orange.   The fish is breathing hard and swimming near the surface.   My only conclusion is that maybe she has eggs in her. At this point he/she is at least 3 times as wide as she was before.  Is  there anything I can do? Is this some disease I don't know about?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  any help is appreciated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2796 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Bug Bombs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't know what was running through my mind, but in my reply to the fellow who fogged around fish, I covered my tanks with plastic, etc., and when I mentioned I taped my bathroom-door, all around + keyhole, I forgot to mention I placed the cats there while I was at work. And in case you did'nt read my faulty email, I have exhaust or exhaust/inflow ventilation in the bath through warm weather. )
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I did that a few times, and the fish seemingly suffered no ill effects.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Basically, I followed directions for the fish, and duct-taped the bathroom door,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > keyhole too, in which, during hot months, I have continual exhaust fans running.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I set off a bug fogger yesterday, away from the tank. The tank was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > covered with plastic bags and alot of duckt tape. Is this the proper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > way to secure your fish/ tank for a bug bombing? Any other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > suggestions will be appreciated. By the way the fish survived!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2797 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Angel Fish Setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As regards to Angels tank 55Gal is a good choice as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              each adult angel will need 10gal for itself. The other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              companions in my Angles tank are clown loaches, corys,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bleeding heart tetras, neons & Cardinals ( Neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              should be big enough otherwise they will end up as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              dinner for the angles ). I have Gouramis in there but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              have read both plus and minus of having it. But in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              own experience the gouramis have never bothered my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              angles with their quick darting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Plants Angels love broad leaf amazon plants, Anubias
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              barteri or nana i am not sure, the ones with the big
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              broad leaf, coffefolia or something.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Most important is the water quality. So twice a week
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water changes of 15 - 20% will keep the fishes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              healthy, happy and for long....!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hope this helps....SuNnY !


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- hartsojb <jhartsoe@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well, I have absolutely no experience with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > freshwater Angel Fish, But
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I am setting up a new 55 gal tank and was looking at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > angels as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > main inhabitants. What I was wondering is what other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish would go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > well with angels. Also want it to be a planted tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but not sure of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > what plant types or density of them angels will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tolerate (current
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > experience with plants is give them to the turtles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to devour, so not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > much experience in actually growing them). Any help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > is appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > My current tanks that i have are cichlid/turtle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank, a tetra tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and my good ole bumble bee cat's tank 10 yr old fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that can't get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > along with anything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2798 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Several subjects -- FIRST SUBJECT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/24/2004 12:14:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sevenspringss@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Bucks, I'm a big advocate of water changes. Yes it probably is rare
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that a hobbyist might change 100% of their water weekly, but I know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > of many who do. It is not a big job, nor a time consuming job if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > are set up for it. I have about 85 tanks, or about 2500 gallons in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > hatchery and I change about 30% of all the tanks every other day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > which takes me about an hour! I've installed a semi-automatic (I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to throw the switch) permanent siphon overflow set-up of PVC in each
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank which leads to a drain. This devise is like two PVC "U"'s, one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > inverted onto the other over the lip of the tank, which permanently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > holds a siphon, but drains only as the fresh water is added to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank and is "pushed" out the overflow. In this way, I get around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > having to drill all the tanks. I have about 700 gallons of fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > water storage space, which I use each time to pump fresh water into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > all the tanks with an overhead PVC feed system, using a 950 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > per hour water pump. The rest is automatic; the tanks are being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > changed as I clean the filters and check out ther fish, looking for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > newly laid spawns to be set up, etc. I do not use my tap water any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > longer, but use my well water instead, so the only cost is running
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the pump which is minimal, but the cold (50 degree) well water takes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > two days to heat up naturally to room temperature; I heat the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > hatchery with a house gas space heater to a constant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > temperature. Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you have any pictures of your4 setup?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2799 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Clamped fins
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i have two cheap 20 cent feeder guppies the day i brought them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              home for my newt to have some company they have had that clamped
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fin, they eat and have babies just fine but they look so sad and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pale. i've tried to look it up in searches but find nothing about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what causes it and only a few things that i can't find in our small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              town to cure it. any help thanks endlers are also still going
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              strong beautiful fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2800 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Andreas,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It would be very helpful if you post a photo of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              O/w We can Just Assume/Guess and give our help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If what i think is true then i am afraid ur fish has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              dropsy. The main cause for this is poor quality water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              or some other organisms.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The physical symptoms are

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              " Bloated appearence with scales that stick out like a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pine cone. Best viewed from above. Dropsy is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              really a specific pathologic entity, it is to describe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              a general condition of fluid accumulation in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              internal body cavity, which has many causes. Dropsy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              usually signals internal infection and multiple organ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              failure. It can be compared to ascites in humans in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              end stage kidney failure.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The behavioral signs are "Lethargy, lack of appetite,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              grave constitutional signs "

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The remedy Unfortunately, dropsy is *usually*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              incurable and fatal; however, in rare cases,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              spontaneous recovery may occur. A strong antibiotic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              such as kanamycin sulfate can be tried, but because it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              is an internal infection, usually it does little good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hope this is not what ur fish is suffering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              from...SuNnY !



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Andreas1Group@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hello everyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > One of my rainbow fish is looking exteremely fat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and stressed out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > his/her scales seem like they are standing up on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > end. I used to think it was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > preacox rainbow, but his/her fin ends are no loner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > looking bue/red like praecox,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > more like yellow orange. The fish is breathing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > hard and swimming near the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > surface. My only conclusion is that maybe she has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > eggs in her. At this point
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > he/she is at least 3 times as wide as she was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > before. Is there anything I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > do? Is this some disease I don't know about?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > any help is appreciated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2801 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Pics posted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am going to post a picture of my free 20 gallon now that it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              set up with my 4 danios to cycle it. I'm buying a lid for it so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              don't worry it's not staying with that top. also my daughter added
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that plant that's not grounded.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2802 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Digest Number 263
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey Ray, don't misunderstand me, I was just squeezing another point in,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              now that I am receiving the messages as a digest. You know, we don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              differ too much on views. It's just that in our area, the water is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              treated so much towards cleansing, very little salt is left behind. One
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              of my employees who has a real job (those of you in the profession will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              get this) works for the Buffalo Water Authority and he informs me that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              almost no salt remains, but huge amounts of chloramines are being used.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There was a scare 2 maybe 3 years ago in St Cathrines, Ontario with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              e-coli, and in typical Western New York fashion, we threw more money,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ie, chloramines at it. Whenever you pour a glass of water here it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              smells like you're going swimming at the town park. I actually suggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to most customers they buy a pond salt tester by Aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Pharmecuticals. Why they only sell it as a pond tester is way the heck
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              beyond me. Anyhow, not trying to start a feud, just expressing what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              has worked for me over the years. I just remember learning about salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              from an old timer who used to catch mollies to sell at the north-eastern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              states and found quite by accident that the addition of salt kept one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              group of my first fish, serpae tetras specifically, from dieing in 1.5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to 2 years to helping them live 4 and five years. Just happened that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they were cohabitating with my mollys then, who always died at 6-9
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              months back then, before I started using salt. Also by the way, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              stated my years of experience to express that I had not, in fact, fell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              off the turnip truck, so to speak. When I got my start, Mom used to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              make me "CLEAN" my tank every month, with the corisponding loss of life
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and many seahorse's death, for some reason they didn't seam to thrive in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my freshwater tanks. Go figure? Well, I guess my point is I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              trying to be an elder statesmen, just sharing my experience and trying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to save others the pratfalls that I hadn't avoided. We okay, Ray? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sure hope so. I read and learn from as many as I can, but like most, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              believe what has been right by me and try as many new things as I can.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As in my earlier messages, and not directed to anyone, just an add on,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              looks like my shrimps have attacked my starfish, thought he was dead. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pulled his poor stumpy body out, but he was still moving. I'll try to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              find him someplace pieceful so he can regenrate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2803 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: I may be starting another fish only store soon...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Is there any way you can show us a picture if you water change method,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ray. It sounds terrific. How do you remove the chlorine/chloramines,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              automatic doser? When I was a PetsMart, their 1/4 million dollar setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              only dosed sodium theosulfate. What else should be used, Amquel Plus?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2804 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas, Praecox rainbows do not really bloat up when laden with eggs. So
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they are not eggs defiantly. Change of colour is a sign of stress but also,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              female rainbows can have yellowish sheen on the fins instead of red.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i have experienced a similar thing with praecox rainbows when I kept them in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hard alkaline water. a couple of them miraculously recovered when I moved
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              them to soft acidic water and they remained fine. If you can try to move
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              them to soft acidic water, perhaps you can save the rest as well. in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              experience, they never do well in alkaline water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              IMHO this is the reason for bloat then other diseases if they were kept in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              incorrect water conditions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >From: sunil kamath [mailto:sunnyvks@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Sent: 25 June 2004 03:15
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] extremely fat rainbow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Hi Andreas,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >It would be very helpful if you post a photo of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >O/w We can Just Assume/Guess and give our help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >If what i think is true then i am afraid ur fish has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >dropsy. The main cause for this is poor quality water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >or some other organisms.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >The physical symptoms are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >" Bloated appearence with scales that stick out like a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >pine cone. Best viewed from above. Dropsy is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >really a specific pathologic entity, it is to describe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >a general condition of fluid accumulation in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >internal body cavity, which has many causes. Dropsy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >usually signals internal infection and multiple organ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >failure. It can be compared to ascites in humans in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >end stage kidney failure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >The behavioral signs are "Lethargy, lack of appetite,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >grave constitutional signs "
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >The remedy Unfortunately, dropsy is *usually*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >incurable and fatal; however, in rare cases,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >spontaneous recovery may occur. A strong antibiotic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >such as kanamycin sulfate can be tried, but because it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >is an internal infection, usually it does little good.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Hope this is not what ur fish is suffering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >from...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >--- Andreas1Group@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Hello everyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> One of my rainbow fish is looking exteremely fat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> and stressed out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> his/her scales seem like they are standing up on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> end. I used to think it was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> preacox rainbow, but his/her fin ends are no loner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> looking bue/red like praecox,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> more like yellow orange. The fish is breathing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> hard and swimming near the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> surface. My only conclusion is that maybe she has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> eggs in her. At this point
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> he/she is at least 3 times as wide as she was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> before. Is there anything I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> do? Is this some disease I don't know about?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> any help is appreciated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >> Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >__________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2805 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it seems to have been dropsy, the scales where sticking out, and the fish was dead this morning.  All the other fish seem fine however, is this contageous?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2806 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New to group and fish problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/24/2004 8:32:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              melafix repairs damaged fins really quickly.  it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              all natural and won't hurt anybody


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've had success with melafix for treating damaged fins, also. Be sure to read and follow all package instructions. As with most medications, remove the activated carbon (if possible) from your filter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2807 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/24/2004 9:30:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Andreas1Group@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              One of my rainbow fish is looking exteremely fat and stressed out  his/her scales seem like they are standing up on end.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If the scales appear to be standing up on end, it is NOT a case of the fish having eggs in it. By your description, and by what I've read about "dropsy", this may be what your fish has. The back of one of the medications I keep on hand describes dropsy as "Fish bloated with scales standing out resembling a pine cone." Does that sound like an accurate representation of what your fish is suffering from?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Luckily, I haven't experienced dropsy in my fish firsthand, but that is what it sounds like to me. Perhaps one of the other members may be able to offer a more qualified opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are several aquarium treatments available to treat dropsy. The one I keep on hand is Jungle Labs' "Fungus Clear" tablets.  If you cannot find that treatment, perhaps the people at your local fish store can offer some advice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you have another tank that you can put the affected fish into for treatment? I use one of those 1.5 gallon "pet carrier" boxes for my hospital tank. Disposable filters are available for it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2808 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Clamped fins
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/24/2004 10:04:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CK147@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i have two cheap 20 cent feeder guppies the day i brought them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              home for my newt to have some company they have had that clamped
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fin, they eat and have babies just fine but they look so sad and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pale


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've seen clamped fins described as an illness, but I've noticed my platies have that look for short periods of time, usually right before they start "pooping".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't know anything about guppies, but I thought they were schooling fish?? Maybe someone could correct me if I'm wrong?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2809 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Several subjects -- FIRST SUBJECT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Mike, Good to hear from you. I've noticed your posts and your info is always choice. Will try to get some pics up soon; I'm not the best photograher in the world! But first, I need to get a new printer. This one here seems to have bitten the dust for reasons I don't understand. Anyway, got to go shopping for one. Cheers, Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2810 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Several subjects: FIRST SUBJECT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi again Mike, Just realized what I typed in my last post, but only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              after I sent it. I meant to say my scanner is shot (not my printer).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Will have to pick one up soon. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2811 From: Ray Wetzel Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Digest Number 263
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Buck's; Real good hearing from you. No problem Pal, I know where
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              you're coming from. Looks like your tapwater situation leaves a lot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to be desired, but then, you have to work with what you got! With
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              your water having very little salts in it just reminded me of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              something I left out as one of salt's uses -- to use it with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              distilled water, which sounds like yours is almost that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Incidentally, your right about those Aquarium Pharmaceutical (Pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Care) salt level kits. They should be promoted more for aquarium use.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              By the way, I do recommend adding pond salt to Koi ponds as I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it helps ward off diseases such as fungus before it gets a foothold.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I just retired from a water garden supplier specialty firm that was,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              up until recently, billed as the largest outlet of its kind in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              country, before they changed hands. In addition to the place I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              at, they had another retail outlet in Ohio (don't want to mention
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              names). I think I understand that you have a fish store in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Buffalo area (?). Getting back to salt, yeh, Mollies do like it and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              don't usually do too well without it. I've gathered that you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              more than a "few" years dealing with fish, from various posts I've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              read, and respect what you have to say. I have mentioned that you're
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              usually right on the money. No, Seahorses don't usually do too well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              in freshwater, no matter how clean the tank is. Years ago, that's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what people believed in; I started with goldfish when I was a kid and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              had to clean out their tank entirely, with all fresh water about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              every month also. Don't know how they survived some times. Hope that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Starfish isn't too far gone that he can't regenerate himself. Glad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              you posted, it makes me get to know you better -- everything's cool.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Good FISHing! Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2812 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: I may be starting another fish only ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bucks; Sorry, am not able to put up pics at the moment. As I just posted for Mike (he asked the same question), I have to get a new scanner. The one I got does not want to cooperate, and looks like it needs replacing. Hope to be operating again soon. As far as my water goes, as I said I don't use my tap water anymore, but use my well water (have a private well) which doesn't have any chemicals (chloramines) in it. So, I don't have to add anything to it, just let it get up to fish room temperature. I understand though, that Amquel Plus can be dangerous if you accidentally use too much. Don't know for sure, I haven't used it. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2813 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: fish diarrhea???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I was just sitting down, thinking I'd check some email, and happened to glance at my aquarium (which is next to my computer desk) and noticed something I hadn't seen before.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Granted, I've only been keeping my fish for a few months now, and I don't sit and watch them for as long as I'd like, so it might be something that is normal that I just never noticed before.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Is it possible for fish to get diarrhea? I saw one of my female adult mollies swimming around, and some fluidish looking poop came out. She's acting normally, but every few seconds more of the fluid stuff comes out. If not for the fact that the substance isn't completly fluid, but has some solid mass to it, I'd think it was just normal, maybe fish urine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The only diet changes for the fish is that there are now live aponogetons that they've been nibbling on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Is this something to worry about? Or is it just normal, and something I never noticed before? If it's not normal, should it be treated, and how?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2814 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Clamped fins
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'VE NEVER KNOWN THEM TO BE SCHOOLING FISH I HAD THEM ABOUT 6 OR SO
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              YEARS AGO AND THE ONLY THING THAT IS GOOD FOR THEM IS TO HAVE THE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              FEMALES OUT NUMBER THE MALES. BECAUSE WITH TO MANY MALES AND A FEW
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              FEMALES THEY TRY TO OVER MATE THE SAME FEMALES STRESSING THEM OUT.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ALSO I STARTED OUT WITH 6 BUT GAVE A FEW TO MY MOTHERS BOYFRIENDS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              KIDS. I THINK THE PET STORE WE GOT THEM AT ISN'T THE CLEANEST AND
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              THEY MAY HAVE SOME INFECTION FROM THERE. AND THEY ALWAYS LOOK LIKE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              THAT. ALL THOUGH THEY SAY THAT THEY JUST LAY ON THE BOTTOM WHEN THEY
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              HAVE CLAMPED FIN WHICH MINE DON'T DO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I've seen clamped fins described as an illness, but I've noticed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > have that look for short periods of time, usually right before
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they start
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > "pooping".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I don't know anything about guppies, but I thought they were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              schooling fish??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Maybe someone could correct me if I'm wrong?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2815 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Sorry had a brain fart about the caps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sorry for the caps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2816 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey everybody,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I finally got a fish for my aquarium yesterday. I got a male betta.I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              named him Athrun and he is a real beauty. Of course everyone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they don't really have a variety of betta's at Walmart so I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              limited to what I wanted. In a few weeks I think I will get a 1-2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              female betta's from PetSmart. I am so glad I finally got a fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              watch instead of just watching water..lol.. I hope he does survive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the cycle and lives for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              many years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Jessica

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              P.S.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I finally got a testing kit. It shows that most of Nitrate adn the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrite were Okay and Safe. The Aldalinity was more of a bluish color
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              if I am reading it right which there is no blue color on the chart.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And the pH is either Ideal or Too High, the colors for those two are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              too close its too hard to tell which is which. But I believe it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              too high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2817 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: please help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tomorrow i am going get a few more fish. how many should i introduce
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              at a time. and does anyone know anything about ghost shrimp. I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i will get a few. please if anyone knows anything about ghost shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              please reply.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2818 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: extremely fat rainbow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              yes, dropsy can be contageous, particularly if any of the other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pick at the dead one. or if it bursts and the bacteria gets into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water. i'd use some melafix for a couple of days to be on the safe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              side.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              On Jun 25, 2004, at 9:43 AM, Andreas1Group@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > it seems to have been dropsy, the scales where sticking out, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish was dead this morning.  All the other fish seem fine however, is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > this contageous?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >             stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >  
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Service.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2819 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Great product,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If anyone remembers I had some major problems with algae, then cyano bacteria then water that turned green every two days . I went from 50% to 90% WC's trying anything to shock this tank back into shape. I was on my final solution, sterilize evrything, new biowheels, new eveything that couldn't be sterilized. While my wife was at the LFS the owner sold here yet another "Can clear up your tank crud" (of which I have two other brands that didn't do anything).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I wqas thinking, give it a day, then sterilize. Guess what, it freaking worked. The next day you could sort of see the back of the tank. I dropped in another dose , when back to the computer and a hour latter it was clear as a bell. I then pulled the filter elelments, in the typical broiwn crud was green crud. I read the bottle , said it clumps suspended material like soils, algae and other crap. Sure did.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So now once a week I go thru and brush the tiny bit of algae off any leaves, front , side glass. disturb the substrate to get any waste up in the water column and I add a bit of this stuff and all the crud gets picked up in the filter so I can blast it out in the yard with the hose (as I do with all the filter elements once a week) and another intresting side effect. The plants are growing great.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The product:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kent Freshwater Pro.Clear product # PROCF8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What it does is bind up the algae, crud and dirt into larger peices which get trapped in the filter .. simple. So now I am back to my favorite TV program, "Tank TV".....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2820 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: please help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ghost shrimp don't add much to the bio-load. The general rule is 1 shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              per gallon, although you really could go higher than that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They eat leftovers off the bottom of the tank; they will occasionally go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the surface for food as well or hang out on your plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You said you had a betta in the tank, your ghost shrimp may or may not get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              eaten by him. All 4 of the males I currently have definitely eat ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              shrimp.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You also said you just got the tank earlier this week. I assume you're using
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the betta to cycle, personally I wouldn't add any more fish for a while.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Theresa



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tomorrow i am going get a few more fish. how many should i introduce
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > at a time. and does anyone know anything about ghost shrimp. I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > i will get a few. please if anyone knows anything about ghost shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2821 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Clamped fins
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The only cause I can remember for clamped fins is poor water quality. There are probably other causes, but have you thoroughly checked your water condition?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2822 From: John Pavao Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Great product,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi, I'm new here...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                A similar product that I've been using for ages and has always worked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                great is called "Accurel F". Widely available. One caution: Don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                get impatient and overdose it and if you're going to clean the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                media, do it before dosing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Take care,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                John Pavao

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > If anyone remembers I had some major problems with algae, then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cyano bacteria then water that turned green every two days . I went
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                from 50% to 90% WC's trying anything to shock this tank back into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                shape. I was on my final solution, sterilize evrything, new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                biowheels, new eveything that couldn't be sterilized. While my wife
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                was at the LFS the owner sold here yet another "Can clear up your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tank crud" (of which I have two other brands that didn't do anything).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                <snip>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2823 From: Patrick Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Be careful with the females, they could have trouble with the male.  I think bettas do ok during the cycle, but it would be best to only have the male for now, or get a bunch of plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I like the Doc Wellfish test kits.  Some colors are close together, but they numbers that are close are usually close enough together it doesn't matter.  Besides, you don't need to change your pH anyway if it is so close you can't read the difference.  Does the kit not give real numbers for pH?  If these tests don't have numbers and only say good or bad (or similar descriptions), they are not really that useful because they don't really tell anything but whatever the company wants to tell you to sell something to fix a problem that doesn't exist. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 06/25/04 15:38:35
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hey everybody,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I finally got a fish for my aquarium yesterday. I got a male betta.I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  named him Athrun and he is a real beauty. Of course everyone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they don't really have a variety of betta's at Walmart so I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  limited to what I wanted. In a few weeks I think I will get a 1-2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  female betta's from PetSmart. I am so glad I finally got a fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  watch instead of just watching water..lol.. I hope he does survive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the cycle and lives for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  many years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Jessica

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  P.S.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I finally got a testing kit. It shows that most of Nitrate adn the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  nitrite were Okay and Safe. The Aldalinity was more of a bluish color
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  if I am reading it right which there is no blue color on the chart.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And the pH is either Ideal or Too High, the colors for those two are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  too close its too hard to tell which is which. But I believe it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  too high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2824 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the kit has little sticks that u stick in the water and then the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  colors change and u have to look on the instructions to know what it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  stands for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Jessica


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Be careful with the females, they could have trouble with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  male. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > think bettas do ok during the cycle, but it would be best to only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > male for now, or get a bunch of plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I like the Doc Wellfish test kits. Some colors are close
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  together, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > they numbers that are close are usually close enough together it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > matter. Besides, you don't need to change your pH anyway if it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  so close
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > you can't read the difference. Does the kit not give real numbers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for pH?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > If these tests don't have numbers and only say good or bad (or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  similar
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > descriptions), they are not really that useful because they don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  really
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tell anything but whatever the company wants to tell you to sell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to fix a problem that doesn't exist. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami. I do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Date: 06/25/04 15:38:35
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Hey everybody,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I finally got a fish for my aquarium yesterday. I got a male
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  betta.I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > named him Athrun and he is a real beauty. Of course everyone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > they don't really have a variety of betta's at Walmart so I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > limited to what I wanted. In a few weeks I think I will get a 1-2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > female betta's from PetSmart. I am so glad I finally got a fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > watch instead of just watching water..lol.. I hope he does survive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the cycle and lives for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > many years.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > P.S.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I finally got a testing kit. It shows that most of Nitrate adn the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > nitrite were Okay and Safe. The Aldalinity was more of a bluish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  color
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > if I am reading it right which there is no blue color on the chart.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > And the pH is either Ideal or Too High, the colors for those two are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > too close its too hard to tell which is which. But I believe it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > too high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2825 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Water problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have noticed that my water yesterday started getting cloudy. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  didn't think too much about it but today it is even worse. You can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  still see in and it is still clear but very cloudy (if that makes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  sense). My tank has been up for a month and I have done one water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  change 2 weeks ago. Should I do another one and change the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  filters? I am using a Marineland Emperor 400 for a 40 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Are we feeding the fish too much? Any help would be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2827 From: gorhka Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Tank Startup Questions (2)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Setup:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  100 Gallon Tank (60x19x20.5)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2 Magnum 350 Filters w/ Marineland Diamond Blend 1 w/bio wheel.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  No plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1) I am starting the tank with Zebra Danios, how many fish should I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  start with?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2) Is there any problem using both filters to start with? The reason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I ask is that with the Diamond Blend removing ammonia, would that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  effect the cycling of the tank in a negative way?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2828 From: Patrick Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Oh, those kind.  They are pretty inaccurate.  Doc Wellfish and several other brands make liquid kits that come with test tubes.  They will give a number that will be useful.  I suggest you invest in those if you can get them. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the kit has little sticks that u stick in the water and then the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    colors change and u have to look on the instructions to know what it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stands for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2829 From: Patrick Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Tank Startup Questions (2)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't think I would ever use anything that locked up or removed or anything else to ammonia. :)  I know they say they don't hurt the cycle, and probably don't, but a well-cycled tank shouldn't need that in it, and an un-cycled tank needs to be well-cycled.  Use both filters from the beginning without ammonia removers.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Setup:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      100 Gallon Tank (60x19x20.5)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2 Magnum 350 Filters w/ Marineland Diamond Blend 1 w/bio wheel.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      No plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1) I am starting the tank with Zebra Danios, how many fish should I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      start with?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2) Is there any problem using both filters to start with?  The reason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I ask is that with the Diamond Blend removing ammonia, would that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      effect the cycling of the tank in a negative way?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2830 From: Patrick Date: 6/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Water problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Probably a bacteria bloom.  It will go away in a week or two.  Don't change filters or vacuum gravel during that time.  25% water changes weekly like usual should do.  It is normal for most tanks. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have noticed that my water yesterday started getting cloudy.  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        didn't think too much about it but today it is even worse.  You can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        still see in and it is still clear but very cloudy (if that makes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        sense).  My tank has been up for a month and I have done one water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        change 2 weeks ago.  Should I do another one and change the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        filters?  I am using a Marineland Emperor 400 for a 40 gallon tank. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Are we feeding the fish too much?  Any help would be appreciated. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2831 From: floridaguy40s Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Expand your tropical fish hobby or go right into commercial product
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        For immediate sale;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        We have 30- 10 gallon tanks, 5- 20 gallon tanks, all are drilled with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        commercial bulkhead fittings, and overflow/stem pipes. 3- 55 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tanks, undrilled. Perfect for all imaginable tropical fish set ups
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        from hobbyist, stores and commercial production. All in excellent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        condition. We will include all pvc plumbing, etc, and even all wood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        racks if requested.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This wont last. $800. cash or best immediate offer. Pick up in Daytona
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Beach, Florida area. Or will arrange shipping/delivery at cost for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        serious buyers.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2832 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Great product,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks, will put that one in the weapons store . mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: John Pavao
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:55 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Great product,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi, I'm new here...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        A similar product that I've been using for ages and has always worked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        great is called "Accurel F".  Widely available.  One caution:  Don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        get impatient and overdose it and if you're going to clean the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        media, do it before dosing. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Take care,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        John Pavao

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > If anyone remembers I had some major problems with algae, then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        cyano bacteria then water that turned green every two days . I went
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        from 50% to 90% WC's trying anything to shock this tank back into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        shape. I was on my final solution, sterilize evrything, new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        biowheels, new eveything that couldn't be sterilized. While my wife
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        was at the LFS the owner sold here yet another "Can clear up your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank crud" (of which I have two other brands that didn't do anything).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <snip>




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2833 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Water problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stop changing the water. at 4 week sthe tank has not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        cycled yet, and you are pulling out your bacteria. it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        is more likely a lack of bacteria than a bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        bloom. leave the tank alone, or add some live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        bacteria to it (liquid form) and it should clear up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        pretty quickly.--- muskie4817 <muskie4817@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have noticed that my water yesterday started
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > getting cloudy. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > didn't think too much about it but today it is even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > worse. You can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > still see in and it is still clear but very cloudy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (if that makes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > sense). My tank has been up for a month and I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > done one water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > change 2 weeks ago. Should I do another one and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > change the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > filters? I am using a Marineland Emperor 400 for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > 40 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Are we feeding the fish too much? Any help would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2834 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: please help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ghost shrimp are excellent cleaners and quite fun if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        you can get them to breed. it turns into a game to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        see if you can find them. it is easier to see them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        when they are full, but fun to try if they are not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        everything that i ahve heard is that they have a 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        months life span, but i have a 2 year old one...go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        figure--- jess_babs_07 <jess_babs_07@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tomorrow i am going get a few more fish. how many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > should i introduce
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > at a time. and does anyone know anything about ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > shrimp. I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > i will get a few. please if anyone knows anything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > about ghost shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2835 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: fish diarrhea???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        you sure she is not giving birth to a small number of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        babies?--- Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I was just sitting down, thinking I'd check some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > email, and happened to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > glance at my aquarium (which is next to my computer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > desk) and noticed something I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > hadn't seen before.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Granted, I've only been keeping my fish for a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > months now, and I don't sit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and watch them for as long as I'd like, so it might
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > be something that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > normal that I just never noticed before.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Is it possible for fish to get diarrhea? I saw one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > of my female adult mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > swimming around, and some fluidish looking poop came
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > out. She's acting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > normally, but every few seconds more of the fluid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > stuff comes out. If not for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fact that the substance isn't completly fluid, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > has some solid mass to it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I'd think it was just normal, maybe fish urine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The only diet changes for the fish is that there are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > now live aponogetons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that they've been nibbling on.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Is this something to worry about? Or is it just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > normal, and something I never
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > noticed before? If it's not normal, should it be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > treated, and how?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > my LiveJournal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2836 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: I may be starting another fish only ...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        amquel + reacts in about 30 seconds. it neutralizes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        all forms of amonia, including about 15 ppm of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        nitrate. i have been using it since about 6 months
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        before its public release, and it does have some down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        sides. if it is used too frequently it will shoot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        your buffering capacity to hell, and if used directly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        into the tank in more than the recomended dose, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        can shock the fish easily, but it does work well for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        treating tap water to topp off the tank. for larger
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        changes i would recomended finding a cleaner water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        source or using either ro (with a revitalizer)or some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        sort of purified water that does not have food grade
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        minerals iin it.--- sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Bucks; Sorry, am not able to put up pics at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > moment. As I just posted for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Mike (he asked the same question), I have to get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > new scanner. The one I got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > does not want to cooperate, and looks like it needs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > replacing. Hope to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > operating again soon. As far as my water goes, as I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > said I don't use my tap water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > anymore, but use my well water (have a private well)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > which doesn't have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > chemicals (chloramines) in it. So, I don't have to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > add anything to it, just let
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > it get up to fish room temperature. I understand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > though, that Amquel Plus can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > be dangerous if you accidentally use too much. Don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > know for sure, I haven't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > used it. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2837 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New to group and fish problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the same company that makes melafix also ,makes pima
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fix, which works on everything that melafix doesn't.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        between the two, you can cure a lot.---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > In a message dated 6/24/2004 8:32:48 PM Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wtfmorlok@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > melafix repairs damaged fins really quickly. it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > all natural and won't hurt anybody
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I've had success with melafix for treating damaged
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fins, also. Be sure to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > read and follow all package instructions. As with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > most medications, remove the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > activated carbon (if possible) from your filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > my LiveJournal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2838 From: Aaron Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Is there any risk of disease or parasites when buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        shrimp?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        They look so overcrowded at the stores, doesn't seem healthy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Should they be quarantined prior to adding to the main tank? If so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        how long?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a 30 gallon I need to cycle, will the ghost shrimp (say 30 of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        them) be enough (w/ their food and all) to cycle the tank?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Are they much different than the expense "Amono" Shrimp (Japonica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cardina?) Will they eat the algae?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I like the idea of having something other than just fish in the tanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Will Clown Loaches eat them?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Aaron



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Ghost shrimp don't add much to the bio-load. The general rule is 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > per gallon, although you really could go higher than that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > They eat leftovers off the bottom of the tank; they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        occasionally go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the surface for food as well or hang out on your plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > You said you had a betta in the tank, your ghost shrimp may or may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        not get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > eaten by him. All 4 of the males I currently have definitely eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > shrimp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and does anyone know anything about ghost shrimp. I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > i will get a few. please if anyone knows anything about ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2839 From: Aaron Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: New poll for FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hello and Welcome to all the New Members!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To get to know you all better, there is a poll for you to let us know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        what your intrests are. You can vote more than once to include all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the topics you are interested in.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for joining and enjoy your visit here, we are glad to have you.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > What aspescts of the hobby intrest you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the most?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Is there a particular type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Aquatic Life that you like best?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Please let us know your Favorite
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > topics, if it is not in the list -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > please post it to the group so we can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > get a better understanding of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > General Intrests of the Members.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Thank you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Fish ONLY Aquariums / NO Live Plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Freshwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Planted Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Nature Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Brackish Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Saltwater Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Reef Tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Ponds
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Water Gardens
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Goldfish & Koi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Tropical Fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Eels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Crabs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Frogs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Crawdads/Crayfish & Lobsters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Amphibians
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Live Plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Turtles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Aquascaping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Photography
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o Live Foods
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > o other ~ please post
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2840 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Gotta switch back from digest!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I very foolishly changed my setting to digest, now there are too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        many things to reply to, I'm all screwed up!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I just had a situation with a customer at my store (just outside of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Buffalo, :-) Williamsville actually) where he started to get some algae,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        so he did a 90% water change. To his dismay, after 2 days, massive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        amounts of algae. It turns out that he has well water and with so many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        farms in the area, his phosphates were trough the roof. The fertilizer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        from the spring spread found their way into his well. I filled a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        buckets at the store for him and he bought some Phos Sorb and we hope
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that straightens him out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As far a fish having the runs, it does sound plausible. Maybe he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        worries too much and has developed spastic colitis or irritable bowel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        syndrome? Okay, just kidding. Was it a female? Like I said, digest is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        a mistake and I've forgotten your complete post. If so, I've seen some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "juices" after a female has given birth in my swords before. Might the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        babies have escaped your notice? Okay, gonna post this, then change my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        settings back. See ya all later, Bucks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2841 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: iloveguppies, Stop yelling at me!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        HEHEHEHE. Anyhow, clamped fins are most definitely a sign of stress.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Get a water change done right away and then bring in a water sample to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        be tested. As far as those Mardel test strips, they are pretty accurate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        but are difficult to read sometimes. Just another reason to have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        someone else double check your readings. I wouldn't worry too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        about your pH, though. It's more dangerous to adjust your pH than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        allowing the fish to acclimate to your conditions IMO. Back when I used
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        to adjust mine, I'd lose more fish to pH swing than I ever did, or do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        now, than to fish living in not quite perfect pH from their natural
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        waters. And as I write, I'm watching my coral banded shrimp attack my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        brittle starfish, gotta go.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2842 From: dave Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        WHen buying ghost shrimp note the price is usually on the live foods
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        lis.Theres a reason for this most are sold as food, this is because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        most fish eat them. If you want ghost shrimp its best to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        seperate from fish and ad a few to your fish tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        setting up the ghostie tank involves an air pump and air driven
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        filtercycling a tank with them prolly not a good the best idea but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        won't say no -Dave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2843 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pima Fix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        One note about this new addition from Aquarium Pharm, I normally have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        isolation tank for my saltwater fish, but my daughter needed it, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        after buying a coral beauty, I decided to add some Mela Fix, the next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        day at work, I bought some Pima Fix and thought I'd add it as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        precaution. Within seconds of adding it to the tank, my fish started to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        go belly up, at half strength mind you, and before I could get even a 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        gallon batch made for a water change, all the fish were dead. It says
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        save for fresh and salt, but I won't be using it in any marine tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        again. I've used it in fresh with no problems, only in the store,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        though. I found the sudden death to be too strong a coincidence, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stuff scares me now. I add both at work for 3 days after I get my fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        in and my fish loss has dropped dramatically. The manufacturers tell me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        they'll have an antiparasitic soon as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2844 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: please help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you have any snail infestationn, don't use the snail killer with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ghost shrimp in the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        please if anyone knows anything about ghost shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2845 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It seems to help if you have lots of little spots for them to hide
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        in. I put some little flat rocks and shells with a nice hole on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        bottom of the tank and scooped out the substrate to make hidey holes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        just big enough for the ghost shrimp, and they use them..especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the ones with a plant right next to it for extra cover. After the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish are fed and at night they come out and are active. I thought
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        for a while that they had died, but it turns out that they had just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        shed their skin and looked like dead ghost shrimp on the floor...all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        three are still busily scuttling around

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <Theres a reason for this most are sold as food, this is because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > most fish eat them. If you want ghost shrimp its best to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > seperate from fish and ad a few to your fish tanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > setting up the ghostie tank involves an air pump and air driven
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > filtercycling a tank with them prolly not a good the best idea but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > won't say no -Dave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2846 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: please help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You have snails, CLOWN LOACHES!!! they love em. You start finding empty shells all over the aquarium. Also, Since they are in the catfish family (no, right now it's coffee time, If you want the real Latin family name of this group I'll dig it up for you when I break out the books later) anyways, they don't bother fish much unless a fish harasses them but since they really have no teeth they can't hurt much..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But Snailicide is BAD, BAD, BAD!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Anytime you involve these chemicals it's going to kill more than just snails. Sensitive fish such as tetras or scaleless fish like loaches usually don't fare well with these chemicals .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I actually find that snails are fun, I would squash them and hand feed them to the killies, Got one so used to hand feeding that he would let me pet his side after feeding, funny thing was he would turn so I could pet the other side .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Pavlov's fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 4:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: please help

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you have any snail infestationn, don't use the snail killer with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ghost shrimp in the tank. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        please if anyone knows anything about ghost shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Jessica



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2847 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: hard water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        anyone know how to get the hard water stains off a plastic tank, i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        bought a 3 gallon one for 0.50 cents at a garage sale, but it has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hard water stains on it, (its for my goldfish, since there only in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        one and a half gallon now.) thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2848 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As long as it's not etched into the plastic , try vinegar. If that doesn't work try a mild acid in a non conspicuous spot . Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 9:23 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] hard water stains on plastic

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        anyone know how to get the hard water stains off a plastic tank, i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        bought a 3 gallon one for 0.50 cents at a garage sale, but it has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hard water stains on it, (its for my goldfish, since there only in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        one and a half gallon now.)  thanks



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2849 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for the info, i'll try it. =:o) and there just 2 little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        feeder goldfish (28 cent ones) for those of you thinking they need a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        larger tank. i will move them to a larger tank as they grow.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > As long as it's not etched into the plastic , try vinegar. If that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        doesn't work try a mild acid in a non conspicuous spot . Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2850 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Clamped fins
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No i haven't checked the water, but the fancy guppy was ok, in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        same tank, but i took the feeders out once they started showing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        clamped fin. i will do some water changes for them though.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The only cause I can remember for clamped fins is poor water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        quality. There are probably other causes, but have you thoroughly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        checked your water condition?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2851 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pima Fix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        not a good idea to ever mix medicatiuons, even if they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        are natural. i have used both in sal water at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        different times and had no problem whatsoever in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        135g reef --- bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > One note about this new addition from Aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Pharm, I normally have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > isolation tank for my saltwater fish, but my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > daughter needed it, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > after buying a coral beauty, I decided to add some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Mela Fix, the next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > day at work, I bought some Pima Fix and thought I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > add it as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > precaution. Within seconds of adding it to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank, my fish started to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > go belly up, at half strength mind you, and before I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > could get even a 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > gallon batch made for a water change, all the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > were dead. It says
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > save for fresh and salt, but I won't be using it in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > any marine tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > again. I've used it in fresh with no problems, only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in the store,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > though. I found the sudden death to be too strong a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > coincidence, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > stuff scares me now. I add both at work for 3 days
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > after I get my fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > in and my fish loss has dropped dramatically. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > manufacturers tell me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they'll have an antiparasitic soon as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2852 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        aaron,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the ghost shrimp are really hardy, and i don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        generally acclimate them when adding them myself. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        generally just dump them in a net and set them in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank, or ytou could acclimate in the bag outside the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank. usually the water is pretty nasty, so i would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        not put it in your tank. they do not really eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        algae, but are wonderful at cleaning up the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the tank, including detritous. they also go nuts for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        brien shrimp as well as flake foods, and any sinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        pellets. there are fresh water algae shrimp too. we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        have had them at aquapet from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        paul--- Aaron <massagetherapist@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > shrimp?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > They look so overcrowded at the stores, doesn't seem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Should they be quarantined prior to adding to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > main tank? If so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > how long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have a 30 gallon I need to cycle, will the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > shrimp (say 30 of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > them) be enough (w/ their food and all) to cycle the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Are they much different than the expense "Amono"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Shrimp (Japonica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Cardina?) Will they eat the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I like the idea of having something other than just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > fish in the tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Will Clown Loaches eat them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Ghost shrimp don't add much to the bio-load. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > general rule is 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > per gallon, although you really could go higher
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > than that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > They eat leftovers off the bottom of the tank;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > occasionally go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the surface for food as well or hang out on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > You said you had a betta in the tank, your ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > shrimp may or may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > not get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > eaten by him. All 4 of the males I currently have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > definitely eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > shrimp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and does anyone know anything about ghost shrimp. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > i will get a few. please if anyone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > anything about ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2853 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        try soaking the whole tank in your bath tub with warm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        water. they usually rub right off with a wash cloth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        after a 1/2 hour soak--- Mark & Peta Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <mbethke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > As long as it's not etched into the plastic , try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > vinegar. If that doesn't work try a mild acid in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > non conspicuous spot . Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: iloveguppies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 9:23 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] hard
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > anyone know how to get the hard water stains off a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > plastic tank, i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bought a 3 gallon one for 0.50 cents at a garage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > sale, but it has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > hard water stains on it, (its for my goldfish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > since there only in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > one and a half gallon now.) thanks
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2854 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Platy problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a mickey mouse moon that is just hovering at the surface in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        corner. She doesn't seem to have any problems with her. She has no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        signs of disease and her fins are all good. What could the problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        be?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2855 From: Patrick Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Pima Fix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yeah, I heard that the bottles say you can use Pima and Mela Fix together, but you really can't safely because they interact badly.  I agree that it was probably the two interacting that caused the deaths.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           not a good idea to ever mix medicatiuons, even if they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          are natural.  i have used both in sal water at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          different times and had no problem whatsoever in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          135g reef
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2856 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Just an idea here, keep a bottle of water (not avion go for thew dasanti) next to the tank, when using live foods or shrimp it doesn't hurt to dump em into a net , over the sink and dump some bottled water over them, this way you get most of the crud that might get in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Shell answerr man
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 12:05 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          aaron,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the ghost shrimp are really hardy, and i don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          generally acclimate them when adding them myself.  i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          generally just dump them in a net and set them in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank, or ytou could acclimate in the bag outside the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank. usually the water is pretty nasty, so i would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          not put it in your tank.  they do not really eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          algae, but are wonderful at cleaning up the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the tank, including detritous.  they also go nuts for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          brien shrimp as well as flake foods, and any sinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          pellets.  there are fresh water algae shrimp too.  we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have had them at aquapet from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          paul--- Aaron <massagetherapist@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > They look so overcrowded at the stores, doesn't seem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Should they be quarantined prior to adding to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > main tank? If so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > how long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have a 30 gallon I need to cycle, will the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp (say 30 of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > them) be enough (w/ their food and all) to cycle the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Are they much different than the expense "Amono"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Shrimp (Japonica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Cardina?) Will they eat the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I like the idea of having something other than just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish in the tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Will Clown Loaches eat them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Ghost shrimp don't add much to the bio-load. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > general rule is 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > per gallon, although you really could go higher
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > than that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > They eat leftovers off the bottom of the tank;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > occasionally go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > the surface for food as well or hang out on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > You said you had a betta in the tank, your ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp may or may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > not get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > eaten by him. All 4 of the males I currently have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > definitely eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > shrimp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >  and does anyone know anything about ghost shrimp. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > i will get a few. please if anyone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > anything about ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2857 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          what's aquapet?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > algae, but are wonderful at cleaning up the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the tank, including detritous. they also go nuts for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > brien shrimp as well as flake foods, and any sinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > pellets. there are fresh water algae shrimp too. we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > have had them at aquapet from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > paul--- Aaron <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > shrimp?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > They look so overcrowded at the stores, doesn't seem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Should they be quarantined prior to adding to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > main tank? If so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > how long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I have a 30 gallon I need to cycle, will the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > shrimp (say 30 of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > them) be enough (w/ their food and all) to cycle the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Are they much different than the expense "Amono"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Shrimp (Japonica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Cardina?) Will they eat the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I like the idea of having something other than just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > fish in the tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Will Clown Loaches eat them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Ghost shrimp don't add much to the bio-load. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > general rule is 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > per gallon, although you really could go higher
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > than that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > They eat leftovers off the bottom of the tank;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > occasionally go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > the surface for food as well or hang out on your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > You said you had a betta in the tank, your ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > shrimp may or may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > not get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > eaten by him. All 4 of the males I currently have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > definitely eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > shrimp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > and does anyone know anything about ghost shrimp. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > i will get a few. please if anyone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > anything about ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2858 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that's cheaper i'll try that first. thanks


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > try soaking the whole tank in your bath tub with warm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > water. they usually rub right off with a wash cloth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > after a 1/2 hour soak--- Mark & Peta Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2859 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          it is the store which i work at in livermore, ca.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          aaron is familiar with it

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- iloveguppies <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > what's aquapet?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > algae, but are wonderful at cleaning up the bottom
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > the tank, including detritous. they also go nuts
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > brien shrimp as well as flake foods, and any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > sinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > pellets. there are fresh water algae shrimp too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > have had them at aquapet from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > paul--- Aaron <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > shrimp?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > They look so overcrowded at the stores, doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > seem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Should they be quarantined prior to adding to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > main tank? If so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > how long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I have a 30 gallon I need to cycle, will the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > shrimp (say 30 of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > them) be enough (w/ their food and all) to cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Are they much different than the expense "Amono"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Shrimp (Japonica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Cardina?) Will they eat the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I like the idea of having something other than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > fish in the tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Will Clown Loaches eat them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > Ghost shrimp don't add much to the bio-load.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > general rule is 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > per gallon, although you really could go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > higher
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > than that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > They eat leftovers off the bottom of the tank;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > occasionally go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > the surface for food as well or hang out on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > You said you had a betta in the tank, your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > shrimp may or may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > not get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > eaten by him. All 4 of the males I currently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > definitely eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > shrimp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > and does anyone know anything about ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > i will get a few. please if anyone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > anything about ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > > > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2860 From: paul helms Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Platy problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          could be straessed by other fish

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- muskie4817 <muskie4817@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have a mickey mouse moon that is just hovering at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the surface in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > corner. She doesn't seem to have any problems with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > her. She has no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > signs of disease and her fins are all good. What
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > could the problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > be?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2861 From: Steve Szabo Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Try a vinegar solution, or straight vinegar, then rinse well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: iloveguppies [mailto:CK147@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 4:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] hard water stains on plastic


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          anyone know how to get the hard water stains off a plastic tank, i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bought a 3 gallon one for 0.50 cents at a garage sale, but it has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          hard water stains on it, (its for my goldfish, since there only in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          one and a half gallon now.) thanks





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stop by and see ~ membership is free!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2862 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm at a loss here, how did my name end up on the bottom of that reply??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Also what would remove hard water scale in the tap water unless it has a Ph of 3.0 ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thank you , MARK
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 3:48 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: hard water stains on plastic

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that's cheaper i'll try that first. thanks


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > try soaking the whole tank in your bath tub with warm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > water.  they usually rub right off with a wash cloth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > after a 1/2 hour soak--- Mark & Peta Bethke




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2863 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not sure about using them to cycle a tank, I suppose it would be ok although
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you'd probably need a large number.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IME they don't eat algae, pretty much just leftovers from the bottom or the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I don't quarantine them; I also don't add lfs water to my tanks.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: "Aaron" <massagetherapist@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > They look so overcrowded at the stores, doesn't seem healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Should they be quarantined prior to adding to the main tank? If so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > how long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have a 30 gallon I need to cycle, will the ghost shrimp (say 30 of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > them) be enough (w/ their food and all) to cycle the tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Are they much different than the expense "Amono" Shrimp (Japonica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Cardina?) Will they eat the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I like the idea of having something other than just fish in the tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Will Clown Loaches eat them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2864 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 6/26/2004 8:04:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CK147@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          what's aquapet?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A small aquarium shop in Livermore California.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2865 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when buying the ghost shrimp <
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Let's take a methodical approuch and in all respect and just so ALL know, there is a chance of getting disease and or parasites from basically anything. Are there ways to lessen the risk, of course. Let's seriously examine just a few.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1) quarantine everything,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2) CAREFULLY examine everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3) Never trust or consider something without suspicion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4) when in doubt seek help,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ok , how realistic is this, not too much. IMHO no one could follow these protocols 100% . I know people who don't always quarantine their fish (yes, there are others out there too, not just a few) and if you quarantine can you identify all illnesses ? What do nematodes look like? If you see "Tiny Dark Threads" protruding from the fishes vent what are they? Can you distinguish what is normal behavior in all species you are buying or collecting. is that swirling the fish is portraying brain disease or is it normal?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There are so many tiny details that the fun of fishkeeping becomes a lesson in microbiology, disease assessment, control and treatment, you might as well ditch everything, buy a glass bowl and a feeder goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          BUT NO, Just do what you can, do as much as you WANT, try some "Common sense" approaches. Like a quick flush with bottled water will remove 80-90% of surface contaminates and give you some peace of mind which is priceless.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Observation is one of your best aids , simply looking the fish or plant over carefully, looking for simple things like small dots, tiny obtrusions like hydras which are like a sea anemone in fresh water. Plus using the same LFS puts good cards in your favor so to say. You are getting specimens that he/she gets mostly from the same source which in turn means you get mostly the same "Ph" adjusted fish. And if the fish you got from them before were healthy it shows they use good control protocols.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Same with plants, many diseases enter the tank thru the plants, now don't use this as a reason to stop using live plants as they are a "Cornerstone" to a healthy aquarium. They help to filter out nutrients that could lead to algae blooms, they give fish a fresh supply of vegetable matter to eat (most fish eat some vegetable matter, might not be the main part of their diet but they still eat a bit from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Lastly , live plants do have a calming effect on the fish in the tank as it simulates their natural environment and gives them refuge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And live plants can take a quick dunk in a 5% solution of bleach , use a five gl bucket filled with tap water, add 5% bleach ( I believe , if my math is right that's a quart [32 ounces] per 5 gallons)   {5 gl = 640 ounces divided by 5% = 32}
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ok so you have this solution, dip the plants all the way in for five seconds , this will kill all surface bacteria, fungus and viruses plus any snail eggs, snails and other unwanted guests. This tips is courtesy of "Live_plants_listserve" on yahoogroups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So now you have a way to keep most of the "bad " things out of your aquarium but also there is the water you add, things that can come in on the breeze (you never know) and even a net that got used for a dead fish and was not sterilized. So it's never going to be a sterile situation, best you could hope for is to do your best with the tools and knowledge you have or can get from the combined knowledge of this lists members..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And try not to worry about ph as much, stay with what your tap Ph is , trying to constantly adjust the ph to what a book tells you to do will just cause headaches and hair pulling. And one last thing to remember , it's stupid and funny but "Fish can't read " so what works in a book might not work for you ... And do keep a log, if something goes wrong you might be able to figure out when or what triggered the problem .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark J. Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2866 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ghost shrimp need a tank that is already cycled. They cannot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tolerate any ammonia, even 1ppm can kill them. Any carnivorous fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that can fit them in their mouth will eat them. There are plenty of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fish you can keep with them though - most small minnows, small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tetras, and livebearers to name a few. since they are a crustacean
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they dont need to be acclimated to temperature before you add them to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a tank. you could drop them in an 80 degree tank from 40 degree
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water and they would be fine. I would do like other people have said
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and dump them into a net and put just the shrimp in without any of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the water in. Be careful when you do this though becase they can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          jump out of the net very easily and often do when tranferring them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          when you buy them, make sure you get the clearest ones and not ones
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that are milky white or yellowish color, those are about to die.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Many times the big females will have green masses of eggs attached to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          her swimmerettes, these are good to get because as they hatch almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          any fish will eat these little guys, adds variety to the fishes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          diets. it is difficult to raise them from eggs and you would almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          definately need a fishless tank to raise them from eggs (or massively
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          overplanted tank). I am not aware of any parasites or diseases they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          carry that would affect fish, but I am no disease expert. they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          very different than amono shrimp, like many others have said , ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          are worthless for eating algae but amono will eat certain types of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          algae.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Jason

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          *******************************************************************

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > They look so overcrowded at the stores, doesn't seem healthy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Should they be quarantined prior to adding to the main tank? If so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > how long?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have a 30 gallon I need to cycle, will the ghost shrimp (say 30
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > them) be enough (w/ their food and all) to cycle the tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Are they much different than the expense "Amono" Shrimp (Japonica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Cardina?) Will they eat the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I like the idea of having something other than just fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Will Clown Loaches eat them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Ghost shrimp don't add much to the bio-load. The general rule is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > per gallon, although you really could go higher than that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > They eat leftovers off the bottom of the tank; they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > occasionally go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > the surface for food as well or hang out on your plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > You said you had a betta in the tank, your ghost shrimp may or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > not get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > eaten by him. All 4 of the males I currently have definitely eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > shrimp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and does anyone know anything about ghost shrimp. I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > i will get a few. please if anyone knows anything about ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shrimp,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > please reply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2867 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Fishkeeping 101MAJOR NOTE!!!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Dang , I knew I forgot something.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PLEASE MAKE THIS NOTE IN YOUR LOG<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          AFTER THE 5 SECOND DIP IN THE 5% BEALCH SOLUTION FOR PLANTS DON'T FORGET TO FLUSH THEM COMPLETELY WITH FRESH WATER UNIT YOU CANNOT SMELL THE BLEACH. A TINY BIT IS "OK" BUT NOT A STRONG SMELL...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PLEASE MAKE THIS NOTE IN YOUR LOG<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          SORRY FOR THE OVERSIGHT. mark Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 6:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when buying the ghost shrimp <
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Let's take a methodical approuch and in all respect and just so ALL know, there is a chance of getting disease and or parasites from basically anything. Are there ways to lessen the risk, of course. Let's seriously examine just a few.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1) quarantine everything,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2) CAREFULLY examine everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3) Never trust or consider something without suspicion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4) when in doubt seek help,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ok , how realistic is this, not too much. IMHO no one could follow these protocols 100% . I know people who don't always quarantine their fish (yes, there are others out there too, not just a few) and if you quarantine can you identify all illnesses ? What do nematodes look like? If you see "Tiny Dark Threads" protruding from the fishes vent what are they? Can you distinguish what is normal behavior in all species you are buying or collecting. is that swirling the fish is portraying brain disease or is it normal?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There are so many tiny details that the fun of fishkeeping becomes a lesson in microbiology, disease assessment, control and treatment, you might as well ditch everything, buy a glass bowl and a feeder goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          BUT NO, Just do what you can, do as much as you WANT, try some "Common sense" approaches. Like a quick flush with bottled water will remove 80-90% of surface contaminates and give you some peace of mind which is priceless.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Observation is one of your best aids , simply looking the fish or plant over carefully, looking for simple things like small dots, tiny obtrusions like hydras which are like a sea anemone in fresh water. Plus using the same LFS puts good cards in your favor so to say. You are getting specimens that he/she gets mostly from the same source which in turn means you get mostly the same "Ph" adjusted fish. And if the fish you got from them before were healthy it shows they use good control protocols.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Same with plants, many diseases enter the tank thru the plants, now don't use this as a reason to stop using live plants as they are a "Cornerstone" to a healthy aquarium. They help to filter out nutrients that could lead to algae blooms, they give fish a fresh supply of vegetable matter to eat (most fish eat some vegetable matter, might not be the main part of their diet but they still eat a bit from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Lastly , live plants do have a calming effect on the fish in the tank as it simulates their natural environment and gives them refuge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And live plants can take a quick dunk in a 5% solution of bleach , use a five gl bucket filled with tap water, add 5% bleach ( I believe , if my math is right that's a quart [32 ounces] per 5 gallons)   {5 gl = 640 ounces divided by 5% = 32}
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ok so you have this solution, dip the plants all the way in for five seconds , this will kill all surface bacteria, fungus and viruses plus any snail eggs, snails and other unwanted guests. This tips is courtesy of "Live_plants_listserve" on yahoogroups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So now you have a way to keep most of the "bad " things out of your aquarium but also there is the water you add, things that can come in on the breeze (you never know) and even a net that got used for a dead fish and was not sterilized. So it's never going to be a sterile situation, best you could hope for is to do your best with the tools and knowledge you have or can get from the combined knowledge of this lists members..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And try not to worry about ph as much, stay with what your tap Ph is , trying to constantly adjust the ph to what a book tells you to do will just cause headaches and hair pulling. And one last thing to remember , it's stupid and funny but "Fish can't read " so what works in a book might not work for you ... And do keep a log, if something goes wrong you might be able to figure out when or what triggered the problem .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark J. Bethke


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2868 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well when all seems to be going great failure is right around the corner. I'm not immune, This morning when I went out to log pond temps, ph and other reading I found that disaster had struck.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          An opossum struck last night and destroyed the pond, all plants torn out, the whole pond is muddy dark water and the plants are pulled apart.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I can see some of the fry but both parents are missing, the mother is a LFS concolor, but the father is a wild paradise replacement is impossible . I feel like getting out the rifle and shooting this SOB tonight but I can't, this is his domain not mine, he's a wild animal trying to survive in a city. of course he's going to gravitate to our yard as it's an island of green in a city of asphalt. I know it makes no sense but how cxan I blame a wild animal for my oversight. I thought he was killed last year as I saw a body of one then in the street which had been hit by a car. So I just have to sit up , have the hose ready and sit still, when he / she comes up blast em with the hose, do this for a fe nights he/she will go away or I could just put a bowl of cat food ouit with a bucket of water. it will be able to eat and drink and won't have to expose it's self..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I really shoul;d be pissed off but only at myself,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2869 From: iloveguppies Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ok i was thinking maybe it was like an online place. I lived in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          california for 17 years and had a friend who lived in livermore. =:o)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it is the store which i work at in livermore, ca.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > aaron is familiar with it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2870 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: how to clean my watr storage tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a 100 gallon plastic tank in which I accumulate R/O water.  Its pretty new,  but I am starting to notice a moldy... fungus sort of smell from the water in it.  I was thinking of dis-infecting it.  How should I do that?  whats the best method?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2871 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Platy problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not sure what the problem was but woke up this morning and she was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          floating. All the other fish seem to be fine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > could be straessed by other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- muskie4817 <muskie4817@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I have a mickey mouse moon that is just hovering at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > the surface in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > corner. She doesn't seem to have any problems with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > her. She has no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > signs of disease and her fins are all good. What
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > could the problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > be?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2872 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 6/27/2004 12:43:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I thought he was killed last year as I saw a body of one then in the street which had been hit by a car. So I just have to sit up , have the hose ready and sit still, when he / she comes up blast em with the hose, do this for a fe nights he/she will go away or I could just put a bowl of cat food ouit with a bucket of water. it will be able to eat and drink and won't have to expose it's self..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I really shoul;d be pissed off but only at myself,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark don't blame yourself, Even if you if it was killed last year there are probably ten for everyone that you see.  Not to mention racoons and housecats.  I like the blasting them with a hose idea.  Maybe a motion sensitive light, they don't like bright lights.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2873 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks Mike, I like people who don't instantly goto "Kill the wildlife" after all, they are basically harmless with the exception of rabies which is a disease and not a naturally occurring ailment in wildlife contrary to popular belief ... most people hear the word "Bat" and freak, they are such good beneficial critters, thinking about building a battery or whatever they call them...mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:02 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 6/27/2004 12:43:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I thought he was killed last year as I saw a body of one then in the street which had been hit by a car. So I just have to sit up , have the hose ready and sit still, when he / she comes up blast em with the hose, do this for a fe nights he/she will go away or I could just put a bowl of cat food ouit with a bucket of water. it will be able to eat and drink and won't have to expose it's self..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I really shoul;d be pissed off but only at myself,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark don't blame yourself, Even if you if it was killed last year there are probably ten for everyone that you see.  Not to mention racoons and housecats.  I like the blasting them with a hose idea.  Maybe a motion sensitive light, they don't like bright lights.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mike


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2874 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Can you cover the whole pond just under water level with a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          strong metal mesh? Concrete reinforcement wire is great for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          this...jsut under the surface, it doesn't show, the fish can get to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          safety, and the wildlife can't pull it up if you have it weighted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          well with rock and secured.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And it might me a coonie, rather than an opossum? They tend to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          more destructive than the opossums.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Well when all seems to be going great failure is right around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          corner. I'm not immune, This morning when I went out to log pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          temps, ph and other reading I found that disaster had struck.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2875 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          drs foster smith has a lot of motion triggered deterrents that keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          animals away from ponds. perhaps you could check them out?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jun 27, 2004, at 8:02 PM, Deenerz@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > In a message dated 6/27/2004 12:43:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > mbethke@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I thought he was killed last year as I saw a body of one then in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > street which had been hit by a car. So I just have to sit up , have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the hose ready and sit still, when he / she comes up blast em with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hose, do this for a fe nights he/she will go away or I could just put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > a bowl of cat food ouit with a bucket of water. it will be able to eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and drink and won't have to expose it's self..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I really shoul;d be pissed off but only at myself,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Mark don't blame yourself, Even if you if it was killed last year
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > there are probably ten for everyone that you see.  Not to mention
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > racoons and housecats.  I like the blasting them with a hose idea. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Maybe a motion sensitive light, they don't like bright lights.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >         
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2876 From: ben olds Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hey Mark, your problem with critters in your pond sounds a lot like my problems gardening in the wood of Michigan. Rabbits deer coons woodchucks. Catch my drift. I found a device at a local garden center that hooks up to my garden hose that has an electric eye and sprinkler head. The critters get in range and the sprinkler head goes off for 20 seconds and then after another 30 sec resets its self. My dog won't even go near the garden anymore.  Haven't lost a plant sence I started using it. Ben


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Have a great day!  Ben... 


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2877 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i actually just purchased and installed a bat house! once we got the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          pond all set in, the yard became a little buggy, now i'm just waiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          for the bats to move in, i can't wait!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jun 26, 2004, at 8:25 PM, Mark & Peta Bethke wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks Mike, I like people who don't instantly goto "Kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > wildlife" after all, they are basically harmless with the exception of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > rabies which is a disease and not a naturally occurring ailment in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > wildlife contrary to popular belief ... most people hear the word
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > "Bat" and freak, they are such good beneficial critters, thinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > about building a battery or whatever they call them...mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > From: Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:02 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > In a message dated 6/27/2004 12:43:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > mbethke@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I thought he was killed last year as I saw a body of one then in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > street which had been hit by a car. So I just have to sit up , have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the hose ready and sit still, when he / she comes up blast em with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hose, do this for a fe nights he/she will go away or I could just put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > a bowl of cat food ouit with a bucket of water. it will be able to eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and drink and won't have to expose it's self..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I really shoul;d be pissed off but only at myself,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Mark don't blame yourself, Even if you if it was killed last year
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > there are probably ten for everyone that you see.  Not to mention
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > racoons and housecats.  I like the blasting them with a hose idea. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Maybe a motion sensitive light, they don't like bright lights.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2878 From: paul helms Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you may want to put some netting on the pond, i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          heard that many species of bat grab fish from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          surface at night. just a thought



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i actually just purchased and installed a bat house!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > once we got the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > pond all set in, the yard became a little buggy, now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i'm just waiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > for the bats to move in, i can't wait!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > On Jun 26, 2004, at 8:25 PM, Mark & Peta Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Thanks Mike, I like people who don't instantly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > goto "Kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > wildlife" after all, they are basically harmless
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with the exception of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > rabies which is a disease and not a naturally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > occurring ailment in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > wildlife contrary to popular belief ... most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > people hear the word
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > "Bat" and freak, they are such good beneficial
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > critters, thinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > about building a battery or whatever they call
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > them...mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > From: Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:02 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > In a message dated 6/27/2004 12:43:40 PM Pacific
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > mbethke@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I thought he was killed last year as I saw a body
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of one then in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > street which had been hit by a car. So I just have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > to sit up , have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > the hose ready and sit still, when he / she comes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > up blast em with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > hose, do this for a fe nights he/she will go away
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > or I could just put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > a bowl of cat food ouit with a bucket of water. it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > will be able to eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > and drink and won't have to expose it's self..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I really shoul;d be pissed off but only at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > myself,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > �
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Mark don't blame yourself, Even if you if it was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > killed last year
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > there are probably ten for everyone that you see.�
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Not to mention
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > racoons and housecats.� I like the blasting them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with a hose idea.�
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Maybe a motion sensitive light, they don't like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bright lights.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > �
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ��������
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > �������� got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > group for you!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2879 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i don't think we get bats in our area large enough to grab any, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          thanks :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jun 27, 2004, at 9:27 PM, paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > you may want to put some netting on the pond, i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > heard that many species of bat grab fish from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > surface at night. just a thought
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> i actually just purchased and installed a bat house!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> once we got the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> pond all set in, the yard became a little buggy, now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> i'm just waiting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> for the bats to move in, i can't wait!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> On Jun 26, 2004, at 8:25 PM, Mark & Peta Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> Thanks Mike, I like people who don't instantly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> goto "Kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> wildlife" after all, they are basically harmless
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> with the exception of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> rabies which is a disease and not a naturally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> occurring ailment in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> wildlife contrary to popular belief ... most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> people hear the word
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> "Bat" and freak, they are such good beneficial
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> critters, thinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> about building a battery or whatever they call
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> them...mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> From: Deenerz@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:02 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> In a message dated 6/27/2004 12:43:40 PM Pacific
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> mbethke@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> I thought he was killed last year as I saw a body
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> of one then in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> street which had been hit by a car. So I just have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> to sit up , have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> the hose ready and sit still, when he / she comes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> up blast em with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> hose, do this for a fe nights he/she will go away
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> or I could just put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> a bowl of cat food ouit with a bucket of water. it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> will be able to eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> and drink and won't have to expose it's self..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> I really shoul;d be pissed off but only at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> myself,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>>  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> Mark don't blame yourself, Even if you if it was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> killed last year
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> there are probably ten for everyone that you see. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> Not to mention
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> racoons and housecats.  I like the blasting them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> with a hose idea. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> Maybe a motion sensitive light, they don't like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> bright lights.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>>  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>> Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >>>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2880 From: Todd Fields Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Ghost Shrimp?s (was - Re: please help)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > aaron,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the ghost shrimp are really hardy, and i don't

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It's funny you say this. I have hell keeping them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          alive for more than a month.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2881 From: Patrick Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Ghost Shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have heard and never confirmed that they need iodine in their water.  This is not iodized salt, but regular bottled iodine from the pharmacy.  Like I said, I've never confirmed that.  I would think that they would do better with more calcium in their tank, like crushed coral, shell, or egg shells.  Those things can change the hardness of the water, but I think they like hard water.  That might mean they don't do well in soft water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I hope someone can correct my statements if I am wrong.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2882 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Ghost Shrimp?s
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Me too, even in tanks where the other fish weren't eating them. I gave up,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            will only occasionally buy them as a live snack for my fish.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: "Todd Fields" <jtfields91@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > It's funny you say this. I have hell keeping them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > alive for more than a month.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > the ghost shrimp are really hardy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2883 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: how to clean my watr storage tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 6/27/2004 3:08:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Andreas1Group@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a 100 gallon plastic tank in which I accumulate R/O water.  Its pretty new,  but I am starting to notice a moldy... fungus sort of smell from the water in it.  I was thinking of dis-infecting it.  How should I do that?  whats the best method?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bleach and water?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2884 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 6/27/2004 5:27:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            .. most people hear the word "Bat" and freak, they are such good beneficial critters, thinking about building a battery or whatever they call them...mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Oh cool,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Go for it, as stated in another email they are great at keeping the bugs down.  Now that West Nile has made it to the West coast it can probably be gotten anywhere, maybe the bats can keep the mosquitos in check near your home.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2885 From: Aaron Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you, thank you very much, thank you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that was awesome advice

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I will be copy and pasting and placing into the files section if ok
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            w/ you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            shrimp <
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Let's take a methodical approuch and in all respect and just so ALL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            know, there is a chance of getting disease and or parasites from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            basically anything. Are there ways to lessen the risk, of course.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Let's seriously examine just a few.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 1) quarantine everything,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2) CAREFULLY examine everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 3) Never trust or consider something without suspicion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 4) when in doubt seek help,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Ok , how realistic is this, not too much. IMHO no one could follow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            these protocols 100% . I know people who don't always quarantine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            their fish (yes, there are others out there too, not just a few) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if you quarantine can you identify all illnesses ? What do nematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            look like? If you see "Tiny Dark Threads" protruding from the fishes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            vent what are they? Can you distinguish what is normal behavior in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            all species you are buying or collecting. is that swirling the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is portraying brain disease or is it normal?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > There are so many tiny details that the fun of fishkeeping becomes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a lesson in microbiology, disease assessment, control and treatment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you might as well ditch everything, buy a glass bowl and a feeder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > BUT NO, Just do what you can, do as much as you WANT, try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            some "Common sense" approaches. Like a quick flush with bottled water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            will remove 80-90% of surface contaminates and give you some peace of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mind which is priceless.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Observation is one of your best aids , simply looking the fish or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            plant over carefully, looking for simple things like small dots, tiny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            obtrusions like hydras which are like a sea anemone in fresh water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Plus using the same LFS puts good cards in your favor so to say. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are getting specimens that he/she gets mostly from the same source
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            which in turn means you get mostly the same "Ph" adjusted fish. And
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if the fish you got from them before were healthy it shows they use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            good control protocols.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Same with plants, many diseases enter the tank thru the plants, now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            don't use this as a reason to stop using live plants as they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a "Cornerstone" to a healthy aquarium. They help to filter out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            nutrients that could lead to algae blooms, they give fish a fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            supply of vegetable matter to eat (most fish eat some vegetable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            matter, might not be the main part of their diet but they still eat a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bit from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Lastly , live plants do have a calming effect on the fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank as it simulates their natural environment and gives them refuge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And live plants can take a quick dunk in a 5% solution of bleach ,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            use a five gl bucket filled with tap water, add 5% bleach ( I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            believe , if my math is right that's a quart [32 ounces] per 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gallons) {5 gl = 640 ounces divided by 5% = 32}
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ok so you have this solution, dip the plants all the way in for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            five seconds , this will kill all surface bacteria, fungus and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            viruses plus any snail eggs, snails and other unwanted guests. This
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tips is courtesy of "Live_plants_listserve" on yahoogroups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > So now you have a way to keep most of the "bad " things out of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aquarium but also there is the water you add, things that can come in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            on the breeze (you never know) and even a net that got used for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            dead fish and was not sterilized. So it's never going to be a sterile
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            situation, best you could hope for is to do your best with the tools
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and knowledge you have or can get from the combined knowledge of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lists members..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And try not to worry about ph as much, stay with what your tap Ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is , trying to constantly adjust the ph to what a book tells you to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            do will just cause headaches and hair pulling. And one last thing to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            remember , it's stupid and funny but "Fish can't read " so what works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in a book might not work for you ... And do keep a log, if something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goes wrong you might be able to figure out when or what triggered the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            problem .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Mark J. Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2886 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: fish diarrhea???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 6/26/2004 4:27:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wtfmorlok@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you sure she is not giving birth to a small number of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            babies?---


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It was midmorning the other day, she isn't doing whatever it was anymore, and no, there aren't any babies swimming around the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Being a mom, myself, *grin*, one of my other thoughts was "preparations for birth". But no babies, and it passed, whatever it was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *shrugs*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2887 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Gotta switch back from digest!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 6/26/2004 7:31:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bucks_boogie@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Was it a female?  Like I said, digest is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a mistake and I've forgotten your complete post.  If so, I've seen some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "juices" after a female has given birth in my swords before.   Might the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            babies have escaped your notice?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If she was in fact giving birth, then either none of the babies were alive at birth, or they were eaten by the platies and older fry, or they've found really GREAT hiding places and I just haven't seen them yet. (the last IS possible ... I've got a piece of driftwood in there that has a gap underneath it, small enough for fry and the three youngest fish to swim under, but nowhere near big enough for the adults to fit underneath.) I haven't seen any babies in the tank. The last birthing there was only one survivor, and the same goes for the one the month before that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2888 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hey your absolutely welcome , no intellectual license in place .. Just hope it helps to keep some people from tearing their hair out in frustration. Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 10:57 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you, thank you very much, thank you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that was awesome advice

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I will be copy and pasting and placing into the files section if ok
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            w/ you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            shrimp <
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Let's take a methodical approuch and in all respect and just so ALL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            know, there is a chance of getting disease and or parasites from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            basically anything. Are there ways to lessen the risk, of course.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Let's seriously examine just a few.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 1) quarantine everything,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2) CAREFULLY examine everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 3) Never trust or consider something without suspicion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 4) when in doubt seek help,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Ok , how realistic is this, not too much. IMHO no one could follow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            these protocols 100% . I know people who don't always quarantine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            their fish (yes, there are others out there too, not just a few) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if you quarantine can you identify all illnesses ? What do nematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            look like? If you see "Tiny Dark Threads" protruding from the fishes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            vent what are they? Can you distinguish what is normal behavior in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            all species you are buying or collecting. is that swirling the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is portraying brain disease or is it normal?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > There are so many tiny details that the fun of fishkeeping becomes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a lesson in microbiology, disease assessment, control and treatment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you might as well ditch everything, buy a glass bowl and a feeder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > BUT NO, Just do what you can, do as much as you WANT, try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            some "Common sense" approaches. Like a quick flush with bottled water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            will remove 80-90% of surface contaminates and give you some peace of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mind which is priceless.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Observation is one of your best aids , simply looking the fish or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            plant over carefully, looking for simple things like small dots, tiny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            obtrusions like hydras which are like a sea anemone in fresh water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Plus using the same LFS puts good cards in your favor so to say. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are getting specimens that he/she gets mostly from the same source
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            which in turn means you get mostly the same "Ph" adjusted fish. And
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if the fish you got from them before were healthy it shows they use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            good control protocols.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Same with plants, many diseases enter the tank thru the plants, now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            don't use this as a reason to stop using live plants as they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a "Cornerstone" to a healthy aquarium. They help to filter out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            nutrients that could lead to algae blooms, they give fish a fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            supply of vegetable matter to eat (most fish eat some vegetable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            matter, might not be the main part of their diet but they still eat a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bit from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Lastly , live plants do have a calming effect on the fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank as it simulates their natural environment and gives them refuge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And live plants can take a quick dunk in a 5% solution of bleach ,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            use a five gl bucket filled with tap water, add 5% bleach ( I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            believe , if my math is right that's a quart [32 ounces] per 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gallons)   {5 gl = 640 ounces divided by 5% = 32}
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ok so you have this solution, dip the plants all the way in for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            five seconds , this will kill all surface bacteria, fungus and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            viruses plus any snail eggs, snails and other unwanted guests. This
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tips is courtesy of "Live_plants_listserve" on yahoogroups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > So now you have a way to keep most of the "bad " things out of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aquarium but also there is the water you add, things that can come in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            on the breeze (you never know) and even a net that got used for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            dead fish and was not sterilized. So it's never going to be a sterile
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            situation, best you could hope for is to do your best with the tools
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and knowledge you have or can get from the combined knowledge of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lists members..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And try not to worry about ph as much, stay with what your tap Ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is , trying to constantly adjust the ph to what a book tells you to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            do will just cause headaches and hair pulling. And one last thing to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            remember , it's stupid and funny but "Fish can't read " so what works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in a book might not work for you ... And do keep a log, if something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goes wrong you might be able to figure out when or what triggered the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            problem .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Mark J. Bethke



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2889 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Java mos in home see the pictures...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Beauty, Java-moos in nature-home:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If ou ar not registered just use this link to register its free and easy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            sory my poor english  :-/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            from Brazil,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2890 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yea,, they are rather peaceful critters, too bad they have such a terrible publicist.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for fish eating bats, only in Asia and the Amazon drainage basin. not in North or Central America's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The metal lath as mention by one or more of our good memebers is a great idea. Will do...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for now I just did a quick replant and placement in the pond and not much else so the pond can cycle back, it's doing better . many more fry survived than first thought. Thank You God <]:~)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyways,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            A Huge THANK YOU to the List for all the support and kind woirds and help with my disaster.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:57 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 6/27/2004 5:27:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            .. most people hear the word "Bat" and freak, they are such good beneficial critters, thinking about building a battery or whatever they call them...mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Oh cool,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Go for it, as stated in another email they are great at keeping the bugs down.  Now that West Nile has made it to the West coast it can probably be gotten anywhere, maybe the bats can keep the mosquitos in check near your home.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2891 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you Cynthia,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well I know it's not Coons, we just don't get them this deep in the city.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            We live in Los Angeles, coons might get into the outskirts say a few miles in but we are about 20 miles from a natural area..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yea, good idea, just so you know that is known as "4 inch lath" . will work good. Seems that the opossum didn't come back last night. Strange?? So maybe it wasn't a opossum anyways, could it have been a cat that being overly curious fell in and went into full scramble tearing out everything trying to get out?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ever see a cat that fell into water? they do loose all composure and dignity..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            but thanks, looks like the ponds settling out, God willing we'll gett thru...mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Can you cover the whole pond just under water level with a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            strong metal mesh?  Concrete reinforcement wire is great for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            this...jsut under the surface, it doesn't show, the fish can get to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            safety, and the wildlife can't pull it up if you have it weighted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            well with rock and secured.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And it might me a coonie, rather than an opossum?  They tend to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            more destructive than the opossums.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Well when all seems to be going great failure is right around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            corner. I'm not immune, This morning when I went out to log pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            temps, ph and other reading I found that disaster had struck.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2892 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: how to clean my watr storage tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings Andreas,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            First, what caused this?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I would drain it , then clean it with a mild bleach 10% solution. then flush very wel with clean water. Let dry. Also clean the tubes the fed it. See if you could find where the fungus came from?? Maybe moving it from a dark place to a sunny place could keep the fungus and molds in check.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] how to clean my watr storage tank

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 6/27/2004 3:08:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Andreas1Group@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a 100 gallon plastic tank in which I accumulate R/O water.  Its pretty new,  but I am starting to notice a moldy... fungus sort of smell from the water in it.  I was thinking of dis-infecting it.  How should I do that?  whats the best method?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bleach and water?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2893 From: red-eye Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nice post.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I tried to access "Live_plants_listserve" on yahoogroups & came up blank - Can you share the URL ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            red-eye





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            At 02:57 AM 6/28/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you, thank you very much, thank you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that was awesome advice

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I will be copy and pasting and placing into the files section if ok
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            w/ you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            shrimp <
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Let's take a methodical approuch and in all respect and just so ALL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            know, there is a chance of getting disease and or parasites from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            basically anything. Are there ways to lessen the risk, of course.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Let's seriously examine just a few.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 1) quarantine everything,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2) CAREFULLY examine everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 3) Never trust or consider something without suspicion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 4) when in doubt seek help,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Ok , how realistic is this, not too much. IMHO no one could follow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            these protocols 100% . I know people who don't always quarantine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            their fish (yes, there are others out there too, not just a few) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if you quarantine can you identify all illnesses ? What do nematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            look like? If you see "Tiny Dark Threads" protruding from the fishes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            vent what are they? Can you distinguish what is normal behavior in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            all species you are buying or collecting. is that swirling the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is portraying brain disease or is it normal?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > There are so many tiny details that the fun of fishkeeping becomes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a lesson in microbiology, disease assessment, control and treatment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you might as well ditch everything, buy a glass bowl and a feeder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > BUT NO, Just do what you can, do as much as you WANT, try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            some "Common sense" approaches. Like a quick flush with bottled water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            will remove 80-90% of surface contaminates and give you some peace of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mind which is priceless.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Observation is one of your best aids , simply looking the fish or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            plant over carefully, looking for simple things like small dots, tiny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            obtrusions like hydras which are like a sea anemone in fresh water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Plus using the same LFS puts good cards in your favor so to say. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are getting specimens that he/she gets mostly from the same source
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            which in turn means you get mostly the same "Ph" adjusted fish. And
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if the fish you got from them before were healthy it shows they use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            good control protocols.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Same with plants, many diseases enter the tank thru the plants, now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            don't use this as a reason to stop using live plants as they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a "Cornerstone" to a healthy aquarium. They help to filter out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            nutrients that could lead to algae blooms, they give fish a fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            supply of vegetable matter to eat (most fish eat some vegetable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            matter, might not be the main part of their diet but they still eat a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bit from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Lastly , live plants do have a calming effect on the fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank as it simulates their natural environment and gives them refuge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And live plants can take a quick dunk in a 5% solution of bleach ,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            use a five gl bucket filled with tap water, add 5% bleach ( I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            believe , if my math is right that's a quart [32 ounces] per 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gallons)   {5 gl = 640 ounces divided by 5% = 32}
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ok so you have this solution, dip the plants all the way in for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            five seconds , this will kill all surface bacteria, fungus and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            viruses plus any snail eggs, snails and other unwanted guests. This
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tips is courtesy of "Live_plants_listserve" on yahoogroups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > So now you have a way to keep most of the "bad " things out of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aquarium but also there is the water you add, things that can come in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            on the breeze (you never know) and even a net that got used for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            dead fish and was not sterilized. So it's never going to be a sterile
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            situation, best you could hope for is to do your best with the tools
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and knowledge you have or can get from the combined knowledge of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lists members..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And try not to worry about ph as much, stay with what your tap Ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is , trying to constantly adjust the ph to what a book tells you to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            do will just cause headaches and hair pulling. And one last thing to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            remember , it's stupid and funny but "Fish can't read " so what works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in a book might not work for you ... And do keep a log, if something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goes wrong you might be able to figure out when or what triggered the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            problem .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Mark J. Bethke



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Make sure you check out these URLs

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2894 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Let me see what I can find, I know they are there,,,, BBASAP, mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 4:54 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nice post.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I tried to access "Live_plants_listserve" on yahoogroups & came up blank - Can you share the URL ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            red-eye





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            At 02:57 AM 6/28/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you, thank you very much, thank you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that was awesome advice

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I will be copy and pasting and placing into the files section if ok
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            w/ you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Is there any risk of disease or parasites when buying the ghost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            shrimp <
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Let's take a methodical approuch and in all respect and just so ALL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            know, there is a chance of getting disease and or parasites from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            basically anything. Are there ways to lessen the risk, of course.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Let's seriously examine just a few.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 1) quarantine everything,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2) CAREFULLY examine everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 3) Never trust or consider something without suspicion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 4) when in doubt seek help,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Ok , how realistic is this, not too much. IMHO no one could follow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            these protocols 100% . I know people who don't always quarantine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            their fish (yes, there are others out there too, not just a few) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if you quarantine can you identify all illnesses ? What do nematodes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            look like? If you see "Tiny Dark Threads" protruding from the fishes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            vent what are they? Can you distinguish what is normal behavior in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            all species you are buying or collecting. is that swirling the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is portraying brain disease or is it normal?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > There are so many tiny details that the fun of fishkeeping becomes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a lesson in microbiology, disease assessment, control and treatment,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you might as well ditch everything, buy a glass bowl and a feeder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > BUT NO, Just do what you can, do as much as you WANT, try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            some "Common sense" approaches. Like a quick flush with bottled water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            will remove 80-90% of surface contaminates and give you some peace of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mind which is priceless.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Observation is one of your best aids , simply looking the fish or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            plant over carefully, looking for simple things like small dots, tiny
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            obtrusions like hydras which are like a sea anemone in fresh water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Plus using the same LFS puts good cards in your favor so to say. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are getting specimens that he/she gets mostly from the same source
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            which in turn means you get mostly the same "Ph" adjusted fish. And
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if the fish you got from them before were healthy it shows they use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            good control protocols.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Same with plants, many diseases enter the tank thru the plants, now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            don't use this as a reason to stop using live plants as they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a "Cornerstone" to a healthy aquarium. They help to filter out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            nutrients that could lead to algae blooms, they give fish a fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            supply of vegetable matter to eat (most fish eat some vegetable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            matter, might not be the main part of their diet but they still eat a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bit from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Lastly , live plants do have a calming effect on the fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank as it simulates their natural environment and gives them refuge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And live plants can take a quick dunk in a 5% solution of bleach ,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            use a five gl bucket filled with tap water, add 5% bleach ( I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            believe , if my math is right that's a quart [32 ounces] per 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gallons)   {5 gl = 640 ounces divided by 5% = 32}
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ok so you have this solution, dip the plants all the way in for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            five seconds , this will kill all surface bacteria, fungus and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            viruses plus any snail eggs, snails and other unwanted guests. This
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tips is courtesy of "Live_plants_listserve" on yahoogroups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > So now you have a way to keep most of the "bad " things out of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aquarium but also there is the water you add, things that can come in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            on the breeze (you never know) and even a net that got used for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            dead fish and was not sterilized. So it's never going to be a sterile
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            situation, best you could hope for is to do your best with the tools
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and knowledge you have or can get from the combined knowledge of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lists members..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And try not to worry about ph as much, stay with what your tap Ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is , trying to constantly adjust the ph to what a book tells you to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            do will just cause headaches and hair pulling. And one last thing to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            remember , it's stupid and funny but "Fish can't read " so what works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in a book might not work for you ... And do keep a log, if something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goes wrong you might be able to figure out when or what triggered the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            problem .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Mark J. Bethke



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         http //groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The "sulcata" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sulcata
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Make sure you check out these URLs

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The Sulcata Reality Check
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you are thinking about being a keeper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The "vets_for_herps" list serve:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vets_for_herps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Don't forget to recommend you favorite Herp vet!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Need a Vet " Recommend a Vet " Worldwide
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2895 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: how to clean my watr storage tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for the advice, I have been soaking it in a blach solution all day and will give it a big rinse.  Seems like cool wet places are just a good place for fungus, its' in the air all the time just needs to find a place to be. Maybe I will but a small UV sterilizer on it to keep it sterile.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings Andreas,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            First, what caused this?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I would drain it , then clean it with a mild bleach 10% solution. then flush very wel with clean water. Let dry. Also clean the tubes the fed it. See if you could find where the fungus came from?? Maybe moving it from a dark place to a sunny place could keep the fungus and molds in check.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] how to clean my watr storage tank

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 6/27/2004 3:08:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Andreas1Group@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a 100 gallon plastic tank in which I accumulate R/O water.  Its pretty new,  but I am starting to notice a moldy... fungus sort of smell from the water in it.  I was thinking of dis-infecting it.  How should I do that?  whats the best method?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bleach and water?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stop by and see ~ membership is free!





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        stop by and see ~ membership is free!





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2896 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I thought ANY metal in the confinement of aquariums can catalyse into the water becoming poisonous, so I imagine the same holds true for ponds? After soaking tableware in a water/bleach solution, I would'nt even place stainless-steel in a tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2897 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i'd think some metals are ok, particularly in ponds, since many of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pumps i use have SOME metal components (screws and the like) and are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              made to be submerged for years.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              On Jun 28, 2004, at 5:08 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >         I thought ANY metal in the confinement of aquariums can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > catalyse into the water becoming poisonous, so I imagine the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > holds true for ponds? After soaking tableware in a water/bleach
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > solution, I would'nt even place stainless-steel in a tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >                          Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: "Mark & Peta Bethke" <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Date: June 28, 2004 10:50:22 AM EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thank you Cynthia,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well I know it's not Coons, we just don't get them this deep in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > city.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > We live in Los Angeles, coons might get into the outskirts say a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > miles in but we are about 20 miles from a natural area..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Yea, good idea, just so you know that is known as "4 inch lath" . will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > work good. Seems that the opossum didn't come back last night.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Strange?? So maybe it wasn't a opossum anyways, could it have been a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > cat that being overly curious fell in and went into full scramble
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tearing out everything trying to get out?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ever see a cat that fell into water? they do loose all composure and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > dignity..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but thanks, looks like the ponds settling out, God willing we'll gett
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > thru...mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: cynthia brennemann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Can you cover the whole pond just under water level with a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > strong metal mesh?  Concrete reinforcement wire is great for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > this...jsut under the surface, it doesn't show, the fish can get to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > safety, and the wildlife can't pull it up if you have it weighted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > well with rock and secured.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > And it might me a coonie, rather than an opossum?  They tend to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > more destructive than the opossums.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Well when all seems to be going great failure is right around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > corner. I'm not immune, This morning when I went out to log pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > temps, ph and other reading I found that disaster had struck.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >             stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >             stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2898 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/28/2004 2:21:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, j.pascavage@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I thought ANY metal in the confinement of aquariums can catalyse into the water becoming poisonous, so I imagine the same holds true for ponds? After soaking tableware in a water/bleach solution, I would'nt even place stainless-steel in a tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ya, another idea might be to just throwing some plastic mesh over it at night.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2899 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              This essage is a couple of days old, so I hope it's been addressed, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my vote is for vinegar, plain white. Cheap and it dissolves mineral
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              deposits. Just rinse well when done.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2900 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pima Fix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I normally wouldn't mix medications, however; the label states "Pimafix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              has been specially formulated to work synergistically with Melafix for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              more effective treatment against fishdisease and to promote rapid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              healing.". I'd say that's a pretty good reason for giving it a try.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, the results weren't that encouraging, what are you going to do,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they are dead, but the tank has been slowly repopulated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2901 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Platy problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What other fish populate the tank with the platy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2902 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey, anyone do anything to a bat and I hunt you down! They are less
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              likely to give you rabies than your dog. And they don't eat pond fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2903 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What about all the metal that has come in contact with the water before you receive it? Both naturally accruing and manmade, you have ZERO control over this . Every year your municipality sends a report of your water supply assessment. Usually a massive lie but none the less a report. But you have the usual suspects, zinc, copper, lead, iron, chromium , mercury oh and not to mention a whole list of stuff that will scare ya to death.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So how do you plan to keep out the metals? just plan to keep them in check... Nothing else to do but rig up some huge RO unit..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 10:48 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 6/28/2004 2:21:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, j.pascavage@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I thought ANY metal in the confinement of aquariums can catalyse into the water becoming poisonous, so I imagine the same holds true for ponds? After soaking tableware in a water/bleach solution, I would'nt even place stainless-steel in a tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ya, another idea might be to just throwing some plastic mesh over it at night.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mike


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2904 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My pond is an old horse trough, galvinised steel. I can hear the lecture coming now. Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 10:26 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i'd think some metals are ok, particularly in ponds, since many of the pumps i use have SOME metal components (screws and the like) and are made to be submerged for years.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              On Jun 28, 2004, at 5:08 PM, j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I thought ANY metal in the confinement of aquariums can catalyse into the water becoming poisonous, so I imagine the same holds true for ponds? After soaking tableware in a water/bleach solution, I would'nt even place stainless-steel in a tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Joe P






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Mark & Peta Bethke" <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: June 28, 2004 10:50:22 AM EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you Cynthia,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well I know it's not Coons, we just don't get them this deep in the city.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              We live in Los Angeles, coons might get into the outskirts say a few miles in but we are about 20 miles from a natural area..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yea, good idea, just so you know that is known as "4 inch lath" . will work good. Seems that the opossum didn't come back last night. Strange?? So maybe it wasn't a opossum anyways, could it have been a cat that being overly curious fell in and went into full scramble tearing out everything trying to get out?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ever see a cat that fell into water? they do loose all composure and dignity..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but thanks, looks like the ponds settling out, God willing we'll gett thru...mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: cynthia brennemann
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Can you cover the whole pond just under water level with a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              strong metal mesh?  Concrete reinforcement wire is great for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              this...jsut under the surface, it doesn't show, the fish can get to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              safety, and the wildlife can't pull it up if you have it weighted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              well with rock and secured.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And it might me a coonie, rather than an opossum?  They tend to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              more destructive than the opossums.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well when all seems to be going great failure is right around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              corner. I'm not immune, This morning when I went out to log pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              temps, ph and other reading I found that disaster had struck.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stop by and see ~ membership is free!





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bored? fear not! hit up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2905 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              HERE HERE, I got your back on this one... I dig bats, like I said ,,, they have a bad pubicist.....mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:23 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey, anyone do anything to a bat and I hunt you down!  They are less
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              likely to give you rabies than your dog.  And they don't eat pond fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2906 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That’s definitely a Nano. :-) a glosso in there looks big :-)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              On 24/6/04 5:57 AM, "Paulo Gatti" <apmgjr@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              here my pictures of my nano planted aquarium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=15

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              GATTI


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2907 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Here's my nano reef cam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Not how small the sea grass is ???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Tim Walker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 1:28 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That’s definitely a Nano. :-) a glosso in there looks big :-)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              On 24/6/04 5:57 AM, "Paulo Gatti" <apmgjr@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              here my pictures of my nano planted aquarium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=15

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              GATTI




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2908 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm not pretending to be an expert in water content, just remembering what I've heard and read when trying to set-up aquarium/s after my first try at it, trying to learn how to save a solitary Corydora left in a 1/2 gallon plastic rig, with about two inches green water in it. That was about ten years ago. I remember the little lead bands, used to hold the first plants I bought, and how safe they looked when they started to disappear into nothingness and white powdery stuff ( at that time the plants were pruned excess in a small holding tank ). From what I'd read in other situations, the stuff was lead precipitate. I know aquaintances who bought so-called rubber-roofing material, and two of them did, and do pond installation, stuff that smelled like hell in hot weather. Thought what it'd be like to eat fish that tasted like that. Called the local ag. extention and pond-liner people, the latter said it's no longer available through them because it's treated with biocides intended to retard algae/mold/mildew and such. There are more expensive pond-liners, that are ostensibly safe, but that seems to be too much for some people to consider. Mention it as safer and it's like a black-ball is coalescing around you, along with a deadening silence. Guess it's a bit of an good-old-boy attitude relating to what sticks together. I don't know anything about zinc/galvinized fish containments, but recently, just before the demise of CCA treated wood, zinc,was mentioned along with acid/acid-rain as a catalyst for releasing arsine gas from the wood. It's odorless, and the amount released was thought to be relativly inconsequential, but if you had a load of burned ( and it's not supposed to be burned) CCA treated wood in a galvinized bucket where acid rain is prevalent, you could have trouble. The difference between a small, man-made pond and the watercourses and the natural water-table is significant, I'm just concered that the amount of metal, heavy or otherwise in released and held captive in a small container is'nt the same as what's being released into earths' water-system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So I 'sez to him, I 'sez;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just because your cousin has fish in a pond and it's small like yours, does'nt mean you don't need a pump to filter and turn-over your water. Your cousins pond is in a spring-fed stream, where ther's natural filtration, and water-flow. But that same black-ball and deathly silence ensued. But the fish are still alive in that smelly, pseudo-rubber roofing pond-liner, but there's a pump inducing water/air turnover.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2911 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As far as soil-mineral content, nitrate and phosphate farming does'nt replace the properties that existed in the soil , through which water flowed, when American Indians fished waters. I don't know if anyone's done studies of mineral content of soil before, during and after introduction of 'modern' ag. practices, or even what the current state of soil and water are, except in relation to whatever I hear on PBS, or read on the net. I know people are told by local officials not to eat fish here and there because of, among others, metal contaminants.) Tangentially, a Greek scientist has done experiments with 'trace-elements' and plants, and produced results that were compared to American type practices (hybridization, genetic manipulation, etc) in terms of degrees of change. I'm ignorant of the 'sterile-child' syndrome, but I can't help but think that if there WERE trace-elements constituting 'fish-health' before phosphate/nitrate farming, that could have beeen complexes more positively fulfilling to fish health than nitrate/phosphate excesses and blue-green algae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I was'nt referring to you when I blew-it expressing my frustration with 'associates' who choose cheap, smelly pond-liners in the grinding unfolding of their professional proficiency towards their goal. I don't know if you've smelled that stuff, but it reminded it of ABBOT Laboratories, just outside of North Chicago, in the early sixties, when I was at Great Lakes for boot-camp. I don't know how those people could have lived there. Maybe they had no political clout, and it did seem a poor area, but the stench was horrid. Some might resent a couple Biblical phrases, but two that seem to relate are, from Revalation;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "The time has come to destroy those who are destroying the Earth" and from somewhere in the Old-Testament, ( and I don't have perfect recall, or have the verse memorized as to chapter and verse in the next, which may cast doubt on my credibility );
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ""............the world will be pristine."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In terms of health and corruption, I don't think pollution is the cure for sterility.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Can you tell me you've never been irritated by someone's stubborn insistance on the wrong course of action ? Seems to me if there were trace-elements flowing into streams containing fish, it would be better than industrial/economic profit through nitrate/phosphate production, and the unnatural amounts of other stuff, including metals being 'sanitarily deposited between us and the water table.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2912 From: muskie4817 Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Platy problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have 6 bloodfin tetras, 2 dwarf neon rainbows, 2 cory cats and 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  other platy's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > What other fish populate the tank with the platy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2914 From: red-eye Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: hard water stains on plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  l100% lemon juice also cuts through the deposits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  red-eye




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  At 03:25 PM 6/28/2004, you wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This essage is a couple of days old, so I hope it's been addressed, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  my vote is for vinegar, plain white.  Cheap and it dissolves mineral
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  deposits.  Just rinse well when done.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "Damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The "sulcata" list serve:
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Make sure you check out these URLs

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://turtlehomes.org/usa/test.shtml
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sulcata Station
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  For accurate, useful care information
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.sulcata-station.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ><~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>x<?>x<~~~>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2915 From: Tim Walker Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Lol, I actually went there expecting to see – a webcam of a nano aquarium :-) doh.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Tim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On 28/6/04 10:47 AM, "Mark & Peta Bethke" <mbethke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Here's my nano reef cam

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.mbayaq.org/efc/efc_hp/hp_kelp_cam.asp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Not how small the sea grass is ???

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mark

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From:  Tim  Walker <mailto:twalker@...>  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 1:28 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re:  [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That’s definitely a Nano. :-) a glosso in there  looks big :-)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On 24/6/04 5:57 AM, "Paulo Gatti" <apmgjr@...>  wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  here my pictures  of my nano planted aquarium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=15

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  sds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  GATTI




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2916 From: castexisp Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Platy problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "muskie4817"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <muskie4817@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I have 6 bloodfin tetras, 2 dwarf neon rainbows, 2 cory cats and 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > other platy's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > bucks_boogie@w... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > What other fish populate the tank with the platy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is one of the other plattys bossing it around?. Could it be oxygen?.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  How long have you had it was it healthy when you got it?. Is it a girl
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and could it be pregnant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2917 From: Richard Emmanuel M. Carasig Date: 6/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: new pix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hi! i've added pics of my 80 gal tank in the photos section.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2920 From: Aaron Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Java mos in home see the pictures...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  is there an english version?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Paulo Gatti"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <apmgjr@b...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Beauty, Java-moos in nature-home:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=206
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > If ou ar not registered just use this link to register its free
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and easy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/profile.php?mode=register
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > sory my poor english :-/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > from Brazil,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2921 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Java mos in home see the pictures...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yah and it would be better if someone can post the link to the pic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  specifically as I am not of the opinion to join a list just to see a pic :).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I already have too many lists on my hand and am having difficult coping up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >From: Aaron [mailto:massagetherapist@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Sent: 29 June 2004 11:39
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Java mos in home see the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >pictures...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >is there an english version?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Paulo Gatti"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ><apmgjr@b...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> Beauty, Java-moos in nature-home:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=206
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> If ou ar not registered just use this link to register its free
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >and easy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/profile.php?mode=register
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> sory my poor english :-/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> from Brazil,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2922 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My boyfriend and I will be getting 2 pacu, and we where wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  there is anyone eles out there that had them and can give us some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  addvice?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  thanks danielle and dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2923 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 6/28/2004 10:38:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  When I was in school most kids ate PB&J sandwiches at least twice a week, now there are separated areas in the cafeteria for PEANUT PRODUCTS!!!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  **snip**


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  genetics are shot because of inbreeding at fish farms and lack of good control.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That is for the kids that are ALLERGIC to peanuts ... the same reason why candy bar wrappers note on the label whether the candy was produced on equipment that handled peanuts. Some food allergies can be very devastating. Separating peanuts in school lunchrooms isn't done because peanuts are unhealthy, but because some kids are horribly allergic to them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I *do* agree that overbreeding of some types of fish has caused weaknesses in the fish. Look at the black mollies and their sensitivity to fungus ... because for centuries they've been bred to get that pretty black color, without introducing enough new blood into the strain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2924 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well I think the point about peanut products being seperated is that with each passing generation kids are becoming more and more prone to these type allergies and various diseases. Meaning higher percentage of kids are affected making it necessary to have a seperate section. Though the reasons can be attributed to environmental changes and pollution levels over time as well. Now as far as fish are concerned I definately beleive it can be a bad thing to try and make conditions absolutely sterile and perfect as it will weaken offspring except in the case of plants and animals that just absolutely require and have for a long time. Example being saltwater anemones without near perfect conditions most likely they will die in a persons care long before lifespan is reached. I have kept various cichlids and a bumble cat with turtles for a long time. Currently the bumblebee cat is nearing 10 years old and my convict cichlid is over 5 years old both of these fish have spent atleast 3-4 years of their lives with turtles, crayfish. I have also kept jack dempseys, a pacu, and other larger hardy species of fish with turtles time to time. and anyone who has kept turtles know their water conditions are generally anything but perfect
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Witchywmn42@... [mailto:Witchywmn42@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:33 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 6/28/2004 10:38:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  When I was in school most kids ate PB&J sandwiches at least twice a week, now there are separated areas in the cafeteria for PEANUT PRODUCTS!!!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  **snip**


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  genetics are shot because of inbreeding at fish farms and lack of good control.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That is for the kids that are ALLERGIC to peanuts ... the same reason why candy bar wrappers note on the label whether the candy was produced on equipment that handled peanuts. Some food allergies can be very devastating. Separating peanuts in school lunchrooms isn't done because peanuts are unhealthy, but because some kids are horribly allergic to them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I *do* agree that overbreeding of some types of fish has caused weaknesses in the fish. Look at the black mollies and their sensitivity to fungus ... because for centuries they've been bred to get that pretty black color, without introducing enough new blood into the strain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2925 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It's a harmless joke but also a good link if you noticed. It's the Monterey Bay Aquarium, that's the three story tall keep life tank... Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Tim Walker
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:46 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Lol, I actually went there expecting to see – a webcam of a nano aquarium :-) doh.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Tim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On 28/6/04 10:47 AM, "Mark & Peta Bethke" <mbethke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Here's my nano reef cam

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.mbayaq.org/efc/efc_hp/hp_kelp_cam.asp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Not how small the sea grass is ???

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mark

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From:  Tim  Walker <mailto:twalker@...>  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 1:28 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re:  [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That’s definitely a Nano. :-) a glosso in there  looks big :-)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On 24/6/04 5:57 AM, "Paulo Gatti" <apmgjr@...>  wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  here my pictures  of my nano planted aquarium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=15

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  sds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  GATTI




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              stop by and see ~ membership is free!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2927 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  don't pu tthem in with anything else unless you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  willing to lose the other fish, or unless they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  juveniles and you are adding other juvenile fish to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  raised with them. pacu's easily grow to 21 inches and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tend to clear out tanks when added to a running tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they are cousin to the pirahhna and like to eat other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- Danielle L Baldwin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <setokaibarules2002@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > My boyfriend and I will be getting 2 pacu, and we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > where wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > there is anyone eles out there that had them and can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > give us some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > addvice?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > thanks danielle and dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2928 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: how to clean my watr storage tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  you need to eep standing water aerated. just put an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  air pump or a powerhead injecting air into it---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > In a message dated 6/27/2004 3:08:30 PM Pacific
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Andreas1Group@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I have a 100 gallon plastic tank in which I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > accumulate R/O water. Its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pretty new, but I am starting to notice a moldy...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > fungus sort of smell from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the water in it. I was thinking of dis-infecting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > it. How should I do that?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > whats the best method?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Bleach and water?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2929 From: Aaron Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Group Membership reaches 500!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4 FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2930 From: Patrick Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How big is the tank?  I think Pacu need huge tanks, like over 200 gallons because they grow so big.  I might be wrong about 200.  I suggest a smaller tetra, like black skirts.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My boyfriend and I will be getting 2 pacu, and we where wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    there is anyone eles out there that had them and can give us some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    addvice?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thanks danielle and dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2931 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Perfect example , Jonathan, thanks for the input, mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:55 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well I think the point about peanut products being seperated is that with each passing generation kids are becoming more and more prone to these type allergies and various diseases. Meaning higher percentage of kids are affected making it necessary to have a seperate section. Though the reasons can be attributed to environmental changes and pollution levels over time as well. Now as far as fish are concerned I definately beleive it can be a bad thing to try and make conditions absolutely sterile and perfect as it will weaken offspring except in the case of plants and animals that just absolutely require and have for a long time. Example being saltwater anemones without near perfect conditions most likely they will die in a persons care long before lifespan is reached. I have kept various cichlids and a bumble cat with turtles for a long time. Currently the bumblebee cat is nearing 10 years old and my convict cichlid is over 5 years old both of these fish have spent atleast 3-4 years of their lives with turtles, crayfish. I have also kept jack dempseys, a pacu, and other larger hardy species of fish with turtles time to time. and anyone who has kept turtles know their water conditions are generally anything but perfect
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Witchywmn42@... [mailto:Witchywmn42@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:33 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/28/2004 10:38:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When I was in school most kids ate PB&J sandwiches at least twice a week, now there are separated areas in the cafeteria for PEANUT PRODUCTS!!!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    **snip**


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    genetics are shot because of inbreeding at fish farms and lack of good control.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That is for the kids that are ALLERGIC to peanuts ... the same reason why candy bar wrappers note on the label whether the candy was produced on equipment that handled peanuts. Some food allergies can be very devastating. Separating peanuts in school lunchrooms isn't done because peanuts are unhealthy, but because some kids are horribly allergic to them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I *do* agree that overbreeding of some types of fish has caused weaknesses in the fish. Look at the black mollies and their sensitivity to fungus ... because for centuries they've been bred to get that pretty black color, without introducing enough new blood into the strain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2932 From: fishtankbabe Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Looking for suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi all, I'm new to this group so let me introduce myself. My name is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Candy (fishtanbabe), and I've been keeping fish since I was seven. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    currently have a 12 gallon freshwater and a 2.5 gallon with bettas.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm starting a new 29 gallon, and I would like some suggestions on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stocking it. I already have some silver hatchets which I'm going to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    put in there, I would like a group of about 8 of those. I also want a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    group of about 5 cory cats, but I would like a species that stays
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    very small, like around 1.5 to 2 inches. I'm thinking maybe a school
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of cardinal tetras, and a few blue rams. I'm not sure how this will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    work out though. Does anyone have any advice on this setup? I'm open
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to suggestions on fish, I love all kinds of tetras so the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    possibilities are endless. FYI, this will be a soft water Amazon type
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank, with fake plants, real driftwood, and Tahitian moon sand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    substrate. The filter is an Aquaclear 200.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2933 From: Jason Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with 8 zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail (the female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding net/cage thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or something like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    inches!) My first question is why do my fish rip up my plants? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    usually feed them once a day, but have recently moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    feedings a day but it didn't stop them from ruining the plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Every morning there's a new leaf floating on top, and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    torn up. I tried putting some lettuce in the tank for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    on, but it didn't help. The aquarium, plants, and algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it all up. My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the surface at night? As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    soon as I turn the light on they stop. Is this normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    at night? Is that where they like to hang out while sleeping? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    guess this may be normal, because they all go to the surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    as I turn the light out, and return to normal swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it's back on. I'm not sure, I've only been taking care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a couple of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and error. I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lose any more.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thanks for your help, and for reading this huge post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2934 From: castexisp Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "fishtankbabe"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <fishtankbabe@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi all, I'm new to this group so let me introduce myself. My name is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Candy (fishtanbabe), and I've been keeping fish since I was seven. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > currently have a 12 gallon freshwater and a 2.5 gallon with bettas.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'm starting a new 29 gallon, and I would like some suggestions on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > stocking it. I already have some silver hatchets which I'm going to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > put in there, I would like a group of about 8 of those. I also want a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > group of about 5 cory cats, but I would like a species that stays
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > very small, like around 1.5 to 2 inches. I'm thinking maybe a school
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of cardinal tetras, and a few blue rams. I'm not sure how this will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > work out though. Does anyone have any advice on this setup? I'm open
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to suggestions on fish, I love all kinds of tetras so the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > possibilities are endless. FYI, this will be a soft water Amazon type
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank, with fake plants, real driftwood, and Tahitian moon sand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > substrate. The filter is an Aquaclear 200.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    One of my customers has a school of cardinals and a school of golden
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tetras. Those two colours look incredible together.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2935 From: Jason Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm new to aquariums, but I love the Zebra Danios in my community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank. I call them my "Hell's Angels". They are always zipping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    around my tank, chasing each other, and if you tap the glass or turn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the light out they school up really quick and that's a sight. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    guppies sometimes get caught in the middle of a Danio run and it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hilarious. You can almost see a couple of old ladies being run over
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    by a pack of skateboarding kids. These things stay pretty small I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    think, about two inches. There is something to the slower, maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    better looking fish but these danios are the highlight of my tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hours of entertainment, they never stop moving. Anyways, I'm new,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and that's just my opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2936 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    all of the male cori cats stay that size, but the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    females do get larger--- castexisp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <castexisp@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > "fishtankbabe"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <fishtankbabe@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hi all, I'm new to this group so let me introduce
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > myself. My name is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Candy (fishtanbabe), and I've been keeping fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > since I was seven. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > currently have a 12 gallon freshwater and a 2.5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gallon with bettas.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I'm starting a new 29 gallon, and I would like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > some suggestions on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > stocking it. I already have some silver hatchets
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > which I'm going to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > put in there, I would like a group of about 8 of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > those. I also want a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > group of about 5 cory cats, but I would like a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > species that stays
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > very small, like around 1.5 to 2 inches. I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > thinking maybe a school
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > of cardinal tetras, and a few blue rams. I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sure how this will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > work out though. Does anyone have any advice on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > this setup? I'm open
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > to suggestions on fish, I love all kinds of tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > so the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > possibilities are endless. FYI, this will be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > soft water Amazon type
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > tank, with fake plants, real driftwood, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Tahitian moon sand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > substrate. The filter is an Aquaclear 200.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > One of my customers has a school of cardinals and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > school of golden
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tetras. Those two colours look incredible together.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2937 From: sunil kamath Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi Jason,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Its best to have a airpump running in the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As regards to plant i cannot be of any help. But are u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sure its the fishes that are ruining the plants and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    not any shortage/lack of micro and macro nutrients for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the plants ??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope this helps..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Jason <thewahlrus@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > inches!) My first question is why do my fish rip up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > my plants? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > usually feed them once a day, but have recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Every morning there's a new leaf floating on top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > torn up. I tried putting some lettuce in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on, but it didn't help. The aquarium, plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > up. My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > surface at night? As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > soon as I turn the light on they stop. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > at night? Is that where they like to hang out while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sleeping? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > guess this may be normal, because they all go to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > as I turn the light out, and return to normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it's back on. I'm not sure, I've only been taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > thanks for your help, and for reading this huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2938 From: Jason Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, here's the thing. The air pump and filter run during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    night so there should be no shortage of oxygen. And as for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    plants, they're not shriveled and dying, they are torn up. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    leaves that are not ripped off are healthy and green. I personally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    think it's my single male swordtail expressing his sexual
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    frustration. Maybe a "give me some females" cry for help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I appreciate your insight. Any point of view or idea other than my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    own is a good one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thanks, Jason


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi Jason,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Its best to have a airpump running in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > As regards to plant i cannot be of any help. But are u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sure its the fishes that are ruining the plants and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not any shortage/lack of micro and macro nutrients for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the plants ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hope this helps..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- Jason <thewahlrus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > inches!) My first question is why do my fish rip up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > my plants? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > usually feed them once a day, but have recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Every morning there's a new leaf floating on top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > torn up. I tried putting some lettuce in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > on, but it didn't help. The aquarium, plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > up. My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > surface at night? As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > soon as I turn the light on they stop. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > at night? Is that where they like to hang out while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > sleeping? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > guess this may be normal, because they all go to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > as I turn the light out, and return to normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > it's back on. I'm not sure, I've only been taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > thanks for your help, and for reading this huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2939 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    jason, a 10 inch pleco in a 36 inch tank is too big.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it is more than likely that the pleco is banging up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the plants. at his size he can't fully turn around in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the tank without hitting something. guppies do nibble
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    at damaged plants occasionally. with the gasping, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    is more than likely due to low oxygen leveles at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    night. when you turn off the lights, the plants stop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    photosynthesizing, which means that they begin to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    consume instead of produce oxygen. make sure that you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have a good back filter that breaks the surface of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    water when returning water to the tank. if you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    using a canister filter, no oxygen is being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    reintroduced to the tank. it has to break the surface
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and cause air bubbles when returning. you could also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    use an air pump as sunil has suggested.




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi Jason,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Its best to have a airpump running in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > As regards to plant i cannot be of any help. But are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sure its the fishes that are ruining the plants and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not any shortage/lack of micro and macro nutrients
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the plants ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hope this helps..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- Jason <thewahlrus@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > inches!) My first question is why do my fish rip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > my plants? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > usually feed them once a day, but have recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Every morning there's a new leaf floating on top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > torn up. I tried putting some lettuce in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > on, but it didn't help. The aquarium, plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > up. My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > surface at night? As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > soon as I turn the light on they stop. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > at night? Is that where they like to hang out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > sleeping? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > guess this may be normal, because they all go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > as I turn the light out, and return to normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > it's back on. I'm not sure, I've only been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > thanks for your help, and for reading this huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2940 From: paul helms Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the plants consume oxygen at night, and if there area
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lot of them you need a really strong pump. for a 40
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gallon you should be using a dual outlet one, like an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    elite 802 or something equivalent.




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Jason <thewahlrus@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Well, here's the thing. The air pump and filter run
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > night so there should be no shortage of oxygen. And
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > as for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants, they're not shriveled and dying, they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > torn up. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > leaves that are not ripped off are healthy and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > green. I personally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > think it's my single male swordtail expressing his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sexual
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > frustration. Maybe a "give me some females" cry for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I appreciate your insight. Any point of view or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > idea other than my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > own is a good one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > thanks, Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sunil kamath
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hi Jason,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Its best to have a airpump running in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > As regards to plant i cannot be of any help. But
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > sure its the fishes that are ruining the plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > not any shortage/lack of micro and macro nutrients
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the plants ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hope this helps..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- Jason <thewahlrus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > inches!) My first question is why do my fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > rip up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > my plants? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > usually feed them once a day, but have recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Every morning there's a new leaf floating on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > torn up. I tried putting some lettuce in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > on, but it didn't help. The aquarium, plants,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > up. My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > surface at night? As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > soon as I turn the light on they stop. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > at night? Is that where they like to hang out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > sleeping? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > guess this may be normal, because they all go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > as I turn the light out, and return to normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > it's back on. I'm not sure, I've only been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > thanks for your help, and for reading this huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > providers!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2941 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my pleco is constantly pulling up plantings. i have him in a 48" tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and he's only 6" but he's a klutz. seems to be the pleco way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jun 30, 2004, at 2:06 AM, paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > jason, a 10 inch pleco in a 36 inch tank is too big.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it is more than likely that the pleco is banging up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the plants.  at his size he can't fully turn around in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the tank without hitting something.  guppies do nibble
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > at damaged plants occasionally.   with the gasping, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is more than likely due to low oxygen leveles at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > night.  when you turn off the lights, the plants stop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > photosynthesizing, which means that they begin to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > consume instead of produce oxygen.  make sure that you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have a good back filter that breaks the surface of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > water when returning water to the tank.  if you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > using a canister filter, no oxygen is being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > reintroduced to the tank.  it has to break the surface
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and cause air bubbles when returning.  you could also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > use an air pump as  sunil has suggested.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hi Jason,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Its best to have a airpump running in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > As regards to plant i cannot be of any help. But are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > sure its the fishes that are ruining the plants and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > not any shortage/lack of micro and macro nutrients
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the plants ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hope this helps..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- Jason <thewahlrus@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > inches!)  My first question is why do my fish rip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > my plants?  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > usually feed them once a day, but have recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the plants. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Every morning there's a new leaf floating on top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > torn up.  I tried putting some lettuce in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > on, but it didn't help.  The aquarium, plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > up.  My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > surface at night?  As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > soon as I turn the light on they stop.  Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > at night?  Is that where they like to hang out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > sleeping?  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > guess this may be normal, because they all go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > as I turn the light out, and return to normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > it's back on.  I'm not sure,  I've only been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > thanks for your help, and for reading this huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2942 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 6/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I bought 2 pacus a few months ago. they were about 3 inches long, in a month they were about 6 or 7 inches long. They grew so fast and so big I had to trade them at my lfs. They were really neat fish, but, way too big for me.Petco said they would grow to 4 inches when full grown. lol I learned my lesson the hard way. It always pays to get all info you can on the fish before you buy them.They did try to kill the other fish in the tank, too. Hope this helps you decide whether to get them. They were the main attraction at the lfs. I hope someone with a huge tank bought them.Type in pacu fish under search and you will get more info if you need it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Dorothy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How big is the tank?  I think Pacu need huge tanks, like over 200 gallons because they grow so big.  I might be wrong about 200.  I suggest a smaller tetra, like black skirts.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My boyfriend and I will be getting 2 pacu, and we where wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    there is anyone eles out there that had them and can give us some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    addvice?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thanks danielle and dan


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2943 From: dave Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Danielle L
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Baldwin" <setokaibarules2002@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > My boyfriend and I will be getting 2 pacu, and we where wondering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > there is anyone eles out there that had them and can give us some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > addvice?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > thanks danielle and dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    best advice is not to get them they can and do reach lenghts over 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    feet. so unless you have an 8 foot x 3 foot tank forget about them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2944 From: Jason Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I figured it was the gigantic pleco, He seems way too big for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank, but they're not mine. I just got a 60 ish gallon tank from a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    neighbor that I'm going to move everything in. It's an Eclipse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    setup (filter and whatnot), which I hear are very good. Hopefully
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it will have enough room for the big guy to move around and not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    destroy everything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't know about canister filters and the like, but in the back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    corners there are two airstones which run nonstop, and these two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    waterfall type things from the filter that go all night.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any tips on setting the new tank up/ and transfering the fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it? I don't want to let it sit for a month to get ready. Can I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    transfer some of the water from my old tank and my plants to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    jumpstart the 'cycle'?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    jason



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > my pleco is constantly pulling up plantings. i have him in a 48"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and he's only 6" but he's a klutz. seems to be the pleco way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > On Jun 30, 2004, at 2:06 AM, paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > jason, a 10 inch pleco in a 36 inch tank is too big.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > it is more than likely that the pleco is banging up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the plants.  at his size he can't fully turn around in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the tank without hitting something.  guppies do nibble
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > at damaged plants occasionally.   with the gasping, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > is more than likely due to low oxygen leveles at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > night.  when you turn off the lights, the plants stop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > photosynthesizing, which means that they begin to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > consume instead of produce oxygen.  make sure that you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > have a good back filter that breaks the surface of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > water when returning water to the tank.  if you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > using a canister filter, no oxygen is being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > reintroduced to the tank.  it has to break the surface
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > and cause air bubbles when returning.  you could also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > use an air pump as  sunil has suggested.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- sunil kamath <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Hi Jason,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Its best to have a airpump running in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > As regards to plant i cannot be of any help. But are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > sure its the fishes that are ruining the plants and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > not any shortage/lack of micro and macro nutrients
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the plants ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Hope this helps..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- Jason <thewahlrus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > inches!)  My first question is why do my fish rip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > my plants?  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > usually feed them once a day, but have recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > the plants. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Every morning there's a new leaf floating on top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > torn up.  I tried putting some lettuce in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > on, but it didn't help.  The aquarium, plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > up.  My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > surface at night?  As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > soon as I turn the light on they stop.  Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > at night?  Is that where they like to hang out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > sleeping?  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > guess this may be normal, because they all go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > as I turn the light out, and return to normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > it's back on.  I'm not sure,  I've only been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > thanks for your help, and for reading this huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2945 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    transfer all of the water....including the brown stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (bacteria) and i would recomend using an undergravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    filter in addition to the eclipse. the under gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    is a larger biologic filter, which can save you if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    over clean the tank. the optimum way to do it would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    be to use the filters that you have until the bio
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wheel and undergravel get stabalized, but that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    really feesable with the top. if the back filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    happen to have bio wheels, it is best to transfer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    those into the eclipse--- Jason <thewahlrus@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I figured it was the gigantic pleco, He seems way
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > too big for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank, but they're not mine. I just got a 60 ish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gallon tank from a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > neighbor that I'm going to move everything in. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > an Eclipse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > setup (filter and whatnot), which I hear are very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > good. Hopefully
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it will have enough room for the big guy to move
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > around and not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > destroy everything.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I don't know about canister filters and the like,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > but in the back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > corners there are two airstones which run nonstop,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and these two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > waterfall type things from the filter that go all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > night.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Any tips on setting the new tank up/ and transfering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it? I don't want to let it sit for a month to get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ready. Can I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > transfer some of the water from my old tank and my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > jumpstart the 'cycle'?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > my pleco is constantly pulling up plantings. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have him in a 48"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > and he's only 6" but he's a klutz. seems to be the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pleco way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > On Jun 30, 2004, at 2:06 AM, paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > jason, a 10 inch pleco in a 36 inch tank is too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > big.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > it is more than likely that the pleco is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > banging up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the plants.� at his size he can't fully turn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > around in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the tank without hitting something.� guppies do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nibble
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > at damaged plants occasionally.�� with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gasping, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > is more than likely due to low oxygen leveles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > night.� when you turn off the lights, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants stop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > photosynthesizing, which means that they begin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > consume instead of produce oxygen.� make sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > have a good back filter that breaks the surface
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > water when returning water to the tank.� if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > using a canister filter, no oxygen is being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > reintroduced to the tank.� it has to break the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > surface
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > and cause air bubbles when returning.� you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > could also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > use an air pump as� sunil has suggested.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- sunil kamath <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Hi Jason,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Its best to have a airpump running in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > As regards to plant i cannot be of any help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > But are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > sure its the fishes that are ruining the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > not any shortage/lack of micro and macro
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nutrients
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > the plants ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Hope this helps..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > --- Jason <thewahlrus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > swordtail (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > inches!)� My first question is why do my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish rip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > my plants?� I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > usually feed them once a day, but have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > the plants.�
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Every morning there's a new leaf floating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > torn up.� I tried putting some lettuce in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > on, but it didn't help.� The aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > belong to my brother and I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > mess it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > up.� My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > surface at night?� As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > soon as I turn the light on they stop.� Is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > at night?� Is that where they like to hang
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > sleeping?� I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > guess this may be normal, because they all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > as I turn the light out, and return to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > it's back on.� I'm not sure,� I've only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > thanks for your help, and for reading this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > ����� �����
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2946 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they at least double in size every year, more likely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that they will triple if fed well--- dave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <frbstrd@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > "Danielle L
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Baldwin" <setokaibarules2002@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > My boyfriend and I will be getting 2 pacu, and we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > where wondering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > there is anyone eles out there that had them and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > can give us some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > addvice?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > thanks danielle and dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > best advice is not to get them they can and do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > reach lenghts over 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > feet. so unless you have an 8 foot x 3 foot tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > forget about them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2947 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jason,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Perhaps I misunderstood you here but you do let your air pump and filter run
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    24/7? Right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In my opinion, some, occasional, surface gasping my not be a cause for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    concern. However, a routine community event would be a concern to me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Perhaps a larger filter would help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And for Pete's sake man, give your swordtail some companionship, lol ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gary


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "Jason" <thewahlrus@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 1:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Two Questions...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Well, here's the thing. The air pump and filter run during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > night so there should be no shortage of oxygen. And as for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants, they're not shriveled and dying, they are torn up. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > leaves that are not ripped off are healthy and green. I personally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > think it's my single male swordtail expressing his sexual
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > frustration. Maybe a "give me some females" cry for help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I appreciate your insight. Any point of view or idea other than my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > own is a good one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > thanks, Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hi Jason,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Its best to have a airpump running in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > As regards to plant i cannot be of any help. But are u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > sure its the fishes that are ruining the plants and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > not any shortage/lack of micro and macro nutrients for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the plants ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hope this helps..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- Jason <thewahlrus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > inches!) My first question is why do my fish rip up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > my plants? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > usually feed them once a day, but have recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Every morning there's a new leaf floating on top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > torn up. I tried putting some lettuce in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > on, but it didn't help. The aquarium, plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > up. My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > surface at night? As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > soon as I turn the light on they stop. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > at night? Is that where they like to hang out while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > sleeping? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > guess this may be normal, because they all go to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > as I turn the light out, and return to normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > it's back on. I'm not sure, I've only been taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > thanks for your help, and for reading this huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2948 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Greetings,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have seen "lfs" here in this group a couple of times. I have no idea what that means. Can you bring me up to speed on that? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 2:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I bought 2 pacus a few months ago. they were about 3 inches long, in a month they were about 6 or 7 inches long. They grew so fast and so big I had to trade them at my lfs. They were really neat fish, but, way too big for me.Petco said they would grow to 4 inches when full grown. lol I learned my lesson the hard way. It always pays to get all info you can on the fish before you buy them.They did try to kill the other fish in the tank, too. Hope this helps you decide whether to get them. They were the main attraction at the lfs. I hope someone with a huge tank bought them.Type in pacu fish under search and you will get more info if you need it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Dorothy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How big is the tank?  I think Pacu need huge tanks, like over 200 gallons because they grow so big.  I might be wrong about 200.  I suggest a smaller tetra, like black skirts.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My boyfriend and I will be getting 2 pacu, and we where wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    there is anyone eles out there that had them and can give us some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    addvice?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thanks danielle and dan


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2949 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lfs=local fish store
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fs=fish store
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cps=chain pet store
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    etc, etc :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have seen "lfs" here in this group a couple of times. I have no idea what that means. Can you bring me up to speed on that? Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2950 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The original question was regarding cories that stay 1.5-2".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    All male cories do not stay that size. Aeneus, barbatus, haraldshultzi, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    trilineatus, for example, are all 2.5"+


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > all of the male cori cats stay that size, but the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > females do get larger
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2951 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 6/30/2004 1:41:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sunnyvks@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My first question is why do my fish rip up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >my plants?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Chances are that at least one of your fish is either omnivorous or vegetarian. So, naturally, when they see the fresh green leaves, they'll eat them nine times out of ten.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Plecos are DEFINITELY plant eaters. Before my pleco got too big for my 15 gallon tank and was moved to a pond, I supplemented his algae grazing with an algae tablet every night. In my tank, the platies are the guilty parties for tearing up my plants. It's all part of nature's course, and since only a couple of my plants have holes in the leaves and an occasionally leaf torn off, I don't bother myself over it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The only way I know of to stop it, is to not put in live plants at all. *shrug*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Also, about the fish gasping at the surface ... I noticed that when I briefly tried turning off my air pump (in an attempt to help the growth of my plants), my fish did a lot of gasping at the surface. So, I turned the air pump back on, and just resigned myself to having stumpy plants. They apparently don't put off enough oxygen for my fish to do without the air pump.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2952 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi, Jason.  It is hard to keep a pleco with plants.  I don't think they eat them very much, but they just can't move around in a small tank (for a pleco, 40 gallons is small) without moving something.  Air pumps don't really add O2, they just increase water movement which can lead to more O2 in the water.  I don't think you have an O2 problem because they only do it at night.  The key to this is that they stop when the light comes on.  The light makes the difference in fish, but there is no way the light could be connected to O2 levels that quickly.  My fish do the same thing.  They are just sleeping.  You need a bigger tank, like 70 gallons or more, for that pleco.  That will give him room to turn around. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 2953 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That new tank will be very good for the pleco.  To help the cycle, it would be best to move the gravel, plants, and filters to the bigger tank.  If you could add half of the gravel it would be good, or if you could just switch filters it would be good.  Using a ugf in a 60 gallon tank would not be that good of an idea.  30 years ago ugf's were great, but today they are pretty useless in larger tanks.  Especially with plants.  Plant roots can be ruined in the filter plate, and they will surely clog it to the point that it does nothing.  Plus they are hard to clean.  And I will say this again, air pumps don't add O2 any more than a good filter.  That is a myth that I can't believe people still believe. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 2954 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Don't panda cories stay that small? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The original question was regarding cories that stay 1.5-2".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2955 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Red Eye, I'm gonna send you a digest for the plant board I'm on. Can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          just send an invite with the WebTv thing so you'll have to navigate your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          way back from the digest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2956 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Pandas do, as well as habrosus (dainty cories), julii (true julii are difficult to find though), schwartzi, similis, and I'm sure more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: Patrick 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Don't panda cories stay that small? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The original question was regarding cories that stay 1.5-2".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2957 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Other good, small bottom feeders are otos, they do a great job with algae. Botia sidthimunki are small loaches that are being found more often in lfs lately...a bonus is that they're snail eaters.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Both of those fish like company of their own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: Patrick 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Don't panda cories stay that small? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The original question was regarding cories that stay 1.5-2".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2958 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Joe, I put 2-3 large nails which were cleaned well, in the substrate of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my planted tanks. The rust process releases iron to the roots of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          plants and does it a hell of alot cheaper than additives. As far as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          stainless, the impellers for filters have a stainless bar holding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          everything together. The weights for plants are lead, but I think we've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          had this discussion before :-) I'm not sure which metals are a problem,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I know some are. I've read that about metals many years ago, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          don't think I've run across any info for a while.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2959 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 6/29/2004 5:20:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, setokaibarules2002@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          My boyfriend and I will be getting 2 pacu, and we where wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          there is anyone eles out there that had them and can give us some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          addvice?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          thanks danielle and dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Get a really really big tank!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          They get huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2960 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hey Mark, should we start a bat appreciation message board? Anyone know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          where I can buy a Flying Fox Fruit bat, BTW?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2961 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          We are going to put them in a 100 gallon long reptial tank. I hope
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that'll be big enough, if not I know where I can get bigger. I thank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          everyone for the info, now I know what I'm getting into.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thank you all, Danielle and Dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2962 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Platy problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Do you know the sexes of the platies, might you have more boys than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          girls and the sexual harressment is to overwhelming?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2963 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Get a BIG freakin' tank!!!!! You'll need at least 500 gallons to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          properly house 2 pacus, no exageration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2964 From: bryants4god Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Those reptile tanks are not meant to hold water.  You might want to check into that further before you do it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: Danielle L Baldwin [mailto:setokaibarules2002@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:40 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: ????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          We are going to put them in a 100 gallon long reptial tank. I hope
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that'll be big enough, if not I know where I can get bigger. I thank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          everyone for the info, now I know what I'm getting into.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thank you all, Danielle and Dan



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 2965 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            With live plants, only use an airpump at night. The plants release co2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            at night rather than take it up. If the fish load is fairly high,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that's too much co2 and the fish will have trouble breathing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2966 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Oh, yeah. A 10 inch pleco and live plants aren't a good combination, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            have a large chcolate and a large gibbicep pleco beating the crap out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of my plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2967 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sounds like a nice group, I'd suggest julii cories, they stay about 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            inches.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2968 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Oh, now I understand. :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:46 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: ????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lfs=local fish store
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fs=fish store
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cps=chain pet store
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            etc, etc :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2969 From: amalthea23 Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            well, i have a moderately planted 55 gallon with a large pleco and i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            don't have problems with him digging plants up or knocking into stuff.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i think it depends on what you plant and how it's planted.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On Jun 30, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Patrick wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >     Hi, Jason.  It is hard to keep a pleco with plants.  I don't think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > they eat them very much, but they just can't move around in a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank (for a pleco, 40 gallons is small) without moving something.  Air
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > pumps don't really add O2, they just increase water movement which can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > lead to more O2 in the water.  I don't think you have an O2 problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > because they only do it at night.  The key to this is that they stop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > when the light comes on.  The light makes the difference in fish, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > there is no way the light could be connected to O2 levels that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > quickly.  My fish do the same thing.  They are just sleeping.  You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > need a bigger tank, like 70 gallons or more, for that pleco.  That
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > will give him room to turn around. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2970 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yea, it's the swordtail, Them , mollies and platys are all tail/fin nippers, abusers, plant shedders and all around mean fish. Now you would thank they would be because all the aquarium books say they are "Peaceful" , yea right. They are mean. So beware . They also eat baby fish , even their own.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Two Questions...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, here's the thing.  The air pump and filter run during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            night so there should be no shortage of oxygen.  And as for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            plants,  they're not shriveled and dying, they are torn up.  The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            leaves that are not ripped off are healthy and green.  I personally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            think it's my single male swordtail expressing his sexual
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            frustration.  Maybe a "give me some females" cry for help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I appreciate your insight.  Any point of view or idea other than my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            own is a good one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            thanks, Jason


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hi Jason,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Its best to have a airpump running in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > As regards to plant i cannot be of any help. But are u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > sure its the fishes that are ruining the plants and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > not any shortage/lack of micro and macro nutrients for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the plants ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hope this helps..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- Jason <thewahlrus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > inches!)  My first question is why do my fish rip up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > my plants?  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > usually feed them once a day, but have recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > the plants. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Every morning there's a new leaf floating on top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > torn up.  I tried putting some lettuce in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > on, but it didn't help.  The aquarium, plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > up.  My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > surface at night?  As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > soon as I turn the light on they stop.  Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > at night?  Is that where they like to hang out while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > sleeping?  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > guess this may be normal, because they all go to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > as I turn the light out, and return to normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > it's back on.  I'm not sure,  I've only been taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > thanks for your help, and for reading this huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2971 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings, those two waterfall things are propably biowheels filters, they work the bes of all filters IMHO. you should be able to see two "Wheels " on each filter, don't replace them when they get dirty, they are working when they look dirty. they get nitrifying bacteria on them which help to rid the water of ammonia. So it sounds li8ke you have a good set-up. congrats,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Two Questions...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I figured it was the gigantic pleco,  He seems way too big for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank, but they're not mine.  I just got a 60 ish gallon tank from a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            neighbor that I'm going to move everything in.  It's an Eclipse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            setup (filter and whatnot), which I hear are very good.  Hopefully
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it will have enough room for the big guy to move around and not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            destroy everything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't know about canister filters and the like, but in the back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            corners there are two airstones which run nonstop, and these two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            waterfall type things from the filter that go all night.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Any tips on setting the new tank up/ and transfering the fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it?  I don't want to let it sit for a month to get ready.  Can I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            transfer some of the water from my old tank and my plants to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            jumpstart the 'cycle'?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            jason



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > my pleco is constantly pulling up plantings. i have him in a 48"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and he's only 6" but he's a klutz. seems to be the pleco way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > On Jun 30, 2004, at 2:06 AM, paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > jason, a 10 inch pleco in a 36 inch tank is too big.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  it is more than likely that the pleco is banging up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  the plants.  at his size he can't fully turn around in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  the tank without hitting something.  guppies do nibble
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  at damaged plants occasionally.   with the gasping, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  is more than likely due to low oxygen leveles at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  night.  when you turn off the lights, the plants stop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  photosynthesizing, which means that they begin to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  consume instead of produce oxygen.  make sure that you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  have a good back filter that breaks the surface of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  water when returning water to the tank.  if you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  using a canister filter, no oxygen is being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  reintroduced to the tank.  it has to break the surface
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  and cause air bubbles when returning.  you could also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  use an air pump as  sunil has suggested.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  --- sunil kamath <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > Hi Jason,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > Gasping might be due to lack of oxygen in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > Its best to have a airpump running in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > As regards to plant i cannot be of any help. But are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > sure its the fishes that are ruining the plants and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > not any shortage/lack of micro and macro nutrients
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > the plants ??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > Hope this helps..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > --- Jason <thewahlrus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > I have a nice little community tank, 40 gal with 8
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > zebra danios, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > fancy guppy, and a male red velvet swordtail (the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > female died after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > giving birth, I have two fry in a breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > net/cage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > thing) and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > gigantic algea eater guy (plecostmus or something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > like that, he's 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > inches!)  My first question is why do my fish rip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > my plants?  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > usually feed them once a day, but have recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > moved to two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > feedings a day but it didn't stop them from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > ruining
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > the plants. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > Every morning there's a new leaf floating on top,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > and a new stalk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > torn up.  I tried putting some lettuce in the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > for them to gnaw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > on, but it didn't help.  The aquarium, plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > belong to my brother and I don't want to mess it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > up.  My other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > question is why do my fish seem to gasp at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > surface at night?  As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > soon as I turn the light on they stop.  Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > normal fish behavoir
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > at night?  Is that where they like to hang out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > sleeping?  I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > guess this may be normal, because they all go to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > surface as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > as I turn the light out, and return to normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > swimming as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > it's back on.  I'm not sure,  I've only been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > taking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > care of this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > aquariumfor a month, and have already lost a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > (rainbowfish and rasboras) due to tiral and error.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > lose any more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > thanks for your help, and for reading this huge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > post!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > > Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >  >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2972 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Smart, excellant idea, good ole American Know how at work... Why waste when you can create   <]:~)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:18 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Joe, I put 2-3 large nails which were cleaned well, in the substrate of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my planted tanks.  The rust process releases iron to the roots of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            plants and does it a hell of alot cheaper than additives.  As far as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            stainless, the impellers for filters have a stainless bar holding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            everything together.  The weights for plants are lead, but I think we've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            had this discussion before :-)  I'm not sure which metals are a problem,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know some are.  I've read that about metals many years ago, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            don't think I've run across any info for a while. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2973 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wow, You know, I think I know a place,, Will look around, there are two types in the trade, the lesser which is the 14-18inch wing span Egyptian fly fox and the greater which is the Australian which is a 30-38 inch wing span. The lesser is a "Nipper" and the greater is a destroyer by the fact that it's so large it's like flying a B-52 around your living room.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But they are out there. I have to goto the shadowy world of exotic pets which some critters are in a "Grey" area of regs. CITIES is a word they don't want to hear. I have used them before to get a certain fish that was confused by non-educated fish and game which had the species confused with one that was very similar and was on the CITIES list... So you see it's a "PIST, WHAT YA NEED KID?" kind of world..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            DISCLAIMER: ALL OF THE ABOVE WORDED MESSAGE IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:39 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hey Mark, should we start a bat appreciation message board?  Anyone know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            where I can buy a Flying Fox Fruit bat, BTW?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2974 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Digest Number 271
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I don't know about canister filters and the like, but in the back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > corners there are two airstones which run nonstop, and these two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > waterfall type things from the filter that go all night.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I hope that you are running your filter 24/7 and your airstones at night, and not the other way around?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 2975 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That is true.  I have a pleco in my planted tank, and I had to try several ways of planting the plants before I could get them where they weren't moved every night.  I still have some plant movement, but not as bad as it was.  It isn't digging that is the problem, it is just the pleco moving from one side of the tank to the other.  I don't know what I will do if it ever decides to grow any larger than it is now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              well, i have a moderately planted 55 gallon with a large pleco and i don't have problems with him digging plants up or knocking into stuff.  i think it depends on what you plant and how it's planted.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2976 From: Sarah Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Everyone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              We have 4 clowns one of which is "clowning around" but when i go up to the tank it aint moving, its alive but his/her gills are going really fast there are 2 that are quite fat the one laying down and other one.Water quailty is perfect and no other fish look ill.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Any ideas anyone????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2977 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what are your exact water readings on ammonia,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrite, nitrate and ph?---





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sarah <sarah@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi Everyone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > We have 4 clowns one of which is "clowning around"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but when i go up to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank it aint moving, its alive but his/her gills are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > going really fast there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > are 2 that are quite fat the one laying down and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > other one.Water quailty is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > perfect and no other fish look ill.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Any ideas anyone????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2978 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the eveneing o2 defieciency is more likely than you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              may think. the plants start to draw oxygen out of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water when the sun goes down. they are no longer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              creating oxygen, and are consuming it to burn energy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > well, i have a moderately planted 55 gallon with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > large pleco and i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > don't have problems with him digging plants up or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > knocking into stuff.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > i think it depends on what you plant and how it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > planted.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > On Jun 30, 2004, at 10:33 AM, Patrick wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ��� Hi, Jason.� It is hard to keep a pleco with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > plants.��I don't think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > they�eat them very much, but they just can't move
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > around in a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > tank (for a pleco, 40 gallons is small) without
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > moving something.� Air
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > pumps don't really add O2, they just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > increase�water movement which can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lead to more�O2 in the water.� I don't think you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > have an O2 problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > because they only do it at night.��The key to this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > is that they�stop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > when the light comes on.� The light makes the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > difference in fish, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > there is no way the light could be connected to O2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > levels that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > quickly.� My fish do the same thing.� They are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > just sleeping.� You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > need a�bigger tank, like�70 gallons or more, for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that pleco.� That
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > will give him room to turn around.�
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > �
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > �
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > About my tank:��29 gallon tank.� I have 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > mollies, 1 home raised
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories,�1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > pleco, and�1�paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > gourami.� I do not recommend this setup for new or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > inexperienced fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > <image.tiff>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2979 From: paul helms Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              plants weights are supposed to be lead free pewter now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ,......in ca anyway--- bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe, I put 2-3 large nails which were cleaned well,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > in the substrate of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > my planted tanks. The rust process releases iron to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the roots of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > plants and does it a hell of alot cheaper than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > additives. As far as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > stainless, the impellers for filters have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > stainless bar holding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > everything together. The weights for plants are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > lead, but I think we've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > had this discussion before :-) I'm not sure which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > metals are a problem,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I know some are. I've read that about metals many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > years ago, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > don't think I've run across any info for a while.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2980 From: Sarah Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              PH between 6.5 and 7.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrate between 0 and 10mg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrite 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ammonia 0 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: 06/30/04 23:27:17
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what are your exact water readings on ammonia,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrite, nitrate and ph?---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sarah <sarah@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi Everyone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > We have 4 clowns one of which is "clowning around"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > but when i go up to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tank it aint moving, its alive but his/her gills are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > going really fast there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > are 2 that are quite fat the one laying down and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > other one.Water quailty is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > perfect and no other fish look ill.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Any ideas anyone????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 2981 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, those numbers are good water conditions, so maybe it is just lazy.  Has it been eating well? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Everyone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                We have 4 clowns one of which is "clowning around" but when i go up to the tank it aint moving, its alive but his/her gills are going really fast there are 2 that are quite fat the one laying down and other one.Water quailty is perfect and no other fish look ill.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Any ideas anyone????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2982 From: Jeff Schultz Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Buck,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I would appreciate it if you would send it to me also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I am in the information gathering part of adding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                plants to my tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                P.S. I am glad too see you back

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Jeff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Red Eye, I'm gonna send you a digest for the plant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > board I'm on. Can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > just send an invite with the WebTv thing so you'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have to navigate your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > way back from the digest.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2983 From: Sarah Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                not at the last feed tonight but otherwise yes 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Date: 06/30/04 23:40:11
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, those numbers are good water conditions, so maybe it is just lazy.  Has it been eating well? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Everyone,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                We have 4 clowns one of which is "clowning around" but when i go up to the tank it aint moving, its alive but his/her gills are going really fast there are 2 that are quite fat the one laying down and other one.Water quailty is perfect and no other fish look ill.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Any ideas anyone????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2984 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Bucks B.,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         I realize the impeller shafts must have been stainless, from having cleaned them in the labarynth of intercourses with tubes, valves decorations/habitat amenities, during periodic quasi-tear-downs, and it did'nt surprise me, but attenuated a sense that the recommendations in the Baensch Aquarium Atlas, and Dr. Axelrods Atlas at that time (about ten or fifteen years ago) could be taken with some understanding of what's possible with metal in a fish-tank. I remember buying a decoration/ambience-thingy-to make-the-goldfish-feel-at-home-and-what's-now-called-"enrichment"-so-they-don't-go-crazy-an-unnatural-environment-due-to-sensory-deprivation........anyway, it was driftwood, with a rectangle of slate attached at the bottom with a stainless-steel screw. Eventually the darn screw started corroding, and I still wonder about the amount of metal involved in that instance, and other instances. It was no trouble keeping metal out of the tank, so it was no big-deal, and I'm afraid I'll never understand enough bio-chemistry to know what happens in those tanks to the n'th degree. Another thing that bothered me about metal in aquaria is adding trace metals for fish-health, along with adding chelators to remove metals for fish-health and having activated carbon removing what it's supposed to remove.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Joe, I put 2-3 large nails which were cleaned well, in the substrate of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > my planted tanks. The rust process releases iron to the roots of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > plants and does it a hell of alot cheaper than additives. As far as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > stainless, the impellers for filters have a stainless bar holding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > everything together. The weights for plants are lead, but I think we've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > had this discussion before :-) I'm not sure which metals are a problem,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I know some are. I've read that about metals many years ago, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > don't think I've run across any info for a while.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2985 From: Audrey Archer Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi, everyone. My planted Dwarf Gourami tank had been going along "swimmingly" ha ha, but one of my females decided overnight Monday (I found her ailing Tuesday morning) that she just is going to either prop herself up on the heater or plants, with her mouth just below the surface, pushing up occasionally for a gulp of air, or else lay on her side on the bottom (she will swim away if nudged, reluctantly). All of my water levels are fine, as are all of the other fish. There are no sores on her, or spots, or critters attached to her, nor is she bloated. She looks normal, other than the pupils in her eyes being very small compared to her fellows... but then, she is pretty much staring into the light. Is it possible that one of my plants is poisonous and she ate some of it? I have Aponogetons (6), and one each Java Moss, Green Cabomba, Riccia, and Water Sprite. I have moved her to my hospice tank and am dosing it with Melafix; is there anything else I can do for her?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                When I moved her there, I also discovered she has company - several snails, very tiny ones, pale brown in color, which apparently arrived as eggs in the Crystalwort (Riccia fluitans) that I have been keeping there. The plants came from a place in Florida, "Aquatic Plant Depot"; they were in a sealed plastic bag without any water in it when they arrived. I had put a small amount of the Crystalwort in my 10 gallon tank, too, but haven't seen any snails in there... of course, my male dwarf gourami had relocated what I put in there to build his nest, piece by piece, but I didn't want my entire surface covered with it, since I have plants growing in there, so most of it got tossed into the 2.5 gallon hospice tank, where it has produced these surprise additions to my livestock. I have no clue what kind they are... I can only guess they are either a freshwater snail that is native to Florida, one of the kind with gills (since they are crawling within the plants or on the bottom, not interested in climbing to the top), or else came from wherever this company got the Riccia fluitans. My lone Otocinclus can't keep up with the algae in my ten gallon tank, and the Dwarf Gouramis prefer the wafers (they don't feed off the back or sides of the tank). I was considering getting more otos, before finding these. My hospice tank is as clear as a bell, so... should I move the snails to the 10 gallon to help with this algae task, or would they eat the plants instead of the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2986 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 6/30/2004 1:18:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                it's the swordtail, Them , mollies and platys are all tail/fin nippers, abusers, plant shedders and all around mean fish.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Blanket statement ... unfair assumption. Yes, there is always the possibility that one fish will have an aggressive personality, even though in general the fish breed is "peaceful". For example, ONE of my mollies is the tank bully. She chases around the other mollies, and the platies. That doesn't mean that mollies in general are mean fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My mollies leave my aponogetons alone, and the platies will tear bites out of the leaves with glee, and the youngest platy even will rip up pieces of root, if they are exposed. I don't have any fish that are "fin nippers", and my entire tank is populated by mollies and platies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes, it's a possibility that his swordtail is uprooting or eating the plant. It's also a possibility that the plecostamus might have gotten too big for the space it is in. That doesn't mean that swordtails or plecostamus are menaces that shouldn't be in an aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 2987 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I wouldn't call livebearers the most peaceful fish in the world, but the ones I have had have always been a 2, with 1 being a rock and 10 being a rainbow shark.  And I know of few fish that don't eat their own fry.  But the males are closer to 3 or 4 on that scale. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yea, it's the swordtail, Them , mollies and platys are all tail/fin nippers, abusers, plant shedders and all around mean fish. Now you would thank they would be because all the aquarium books say they are "Peaceful" , yea right. They are mean. So beware . They also eat baby fish , even their own.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mbethke@socal.rr.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2988 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Buying plants from sellers on the net that will not relate their plants do or do not harbor pond-snails or their eggs can land you in the kind of trouble you have now. My only experiences with pond-snails are that, if you buy from an LFS your chances of having pond snails are around 100%. Last week or so, I read on the net that they harbor flatworms. I'd read in fish-keeping books that they are carriers of parasites. I'd kept pond-snails alone in a small, one-gallon tank, (after buying plants, and then plucking them from my tank)  fed them, just to see what would happen, since the aforementioned (little worms) began appearing in my tanks, and I wanted to see if there was a relationship. There was a relationship. Besides being prolific little snails, multitudes of tiny, white-worms appeared, and crawled over the tank surface. I don't think they (those snails and worms) need only uneaten food, but the snails will eat uneaten food, and plants, and the worms will eat uneaten food, and I believe the worms and snails can survive on the nitro bacteria that keep your water free of ammonia and nitrites, etc. ( 'tho the latter is an assumption, since uneaten food does not grow on tank glass, and that's where you can find them, among other places..........and I know pre-visible algae can be a source of food)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     I would'nt BEGIN to THINK of using those little guys as a solution to my algae problem. Since seeing into your aquarium is part of why we buy them, and seeing your garden is why we plant, scraping algae from the front of the tank, and allowing algae for algae eaters on the sides and back is analgous to weeding a garden, and not expecting ground-hogs to do it. I believe I read recently on a fishkeeping group thread that someone's had success with (what sounded like)  the little creatures I'm describing, but in my experience, and the testamony of others, including experts, they have no place in an aquarium. Acidic PH can eventually cause their dissappearance, but that's not necessarily good for your fish, or other charges. Snail-cides can ruin your plants or bio-filter. I feel sympathy for those little guys (God Bless Them), but they unfortunately don't seem to fit into aquaria.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     There sites on the net that claim to have plants that are grown in ways that do not allow pond-snails into their system. One is in Holland, I believe. If you want plants devoid of pond-snails, you'll need to look around.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And if your plants are edible, they will eat them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Hi, everyone. My planted Dwarf Gourami tank had been going along "swimmingly" ha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ha, but one of my females decided overnight Monday (I found her ailing Tuesday
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > morning) that she just is going to either prop herself up on the heater or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > plants, with her mouth just below the surface, pushing up occasionally for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > gulp of air, or else lay on her side on the bottom (she will swim away if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > nudged, reluctantly). All of my water levels are fine, as are all of the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > fish. There are no sores on her, or spots, or critters attached to her, nor is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > she bloated. She looks normal, other than the pupils in her eyes being very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > small compared to her fellows... but then, she is pretty much staring into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > light. Is it possible that one of my plants is poisonous and she ate some of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I have Aponogetons (6), and one each Java Moss, Green Cabomba, Riccia, and Water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Sprite. I have moved her to my hospice tank and am dosing it with Melafix; is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > there anything else I can do for her?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > When I moved her there, I also discovered she has company - several snails, very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tiny ones, pale brown in color, which apparently arrived as eggs in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Crystalwort (Riccia fluitans) that I have been keeping there. The plants came
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > from a place in Florida, "Aquatic Plant Depot"; they were in a sealed plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > bag without any water in it when they arrived. I had put a small amount of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Crystalwort in my 10 gallon tank, too, but haven't seen any snails in there...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > of course, my male dwarf gourami had relocated what I put in there to build his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > nest, piece by piece, but I didn't want my entire surface covered with it, since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I have plants growing in there, so most of it got tossed into the 2.5 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > hospice tank, where it has produced these surprise additions to my livestock. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > have no clue what kind they are... I can only guess they are either a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > snail that is native to Florida, one of the kind with gills (since they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > crawling within the plants or on the bottom, not interested in climbing to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > top), or else came from wherever this company got the Riccia fluitans. My lone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Otocinclus can't keep up with the algae in my ten gallon tank, and the Dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Gouramis prefer the wafers (they don't feed off the back or sides of the tank).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I was considering getting more otos, before finding these. My hospice tank is as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > clear as a bell, so... should I move the snails to the 10 gallon to help with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > this algae task, or would they eat the plants instead of the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2989 From: Jeff Schultz Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am in the information gathering stage of adding live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  plants to my tank. I have three green terrors in a 55
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  gallon tank ( 1 breeding pair ). I understand cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  are usaually not very nice to plants but i wanna give
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  it a try anyway. Do you have any suggestions on plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  that might work or safe internet sights to purchase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  them. I see a lot of plants on e-bay and aqua bid. Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  help or info would be appreciated from you or others.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Jeff


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Buying plants from sellers on the net that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > will not relate their plants do or do not harbor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pond-snails or their eggs can land you in the kind
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > of trouble you have now. My only experiences with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pond-snails are that, if you buy from an LFS your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > chances of having pond snails are around 100%. Last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > week or so, I read on the net that they harbor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > flatworms. I'd read in fish-keeping books that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > are carriers of parasites. I'd kept pond-snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > alone in a small, one-gallon tank, (after buying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > plants, and then plucking them from my tank) fed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > them, just to see what would happen, since the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > aforementioned (little worms) began appearing in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tanks, and I wanted to see if there was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > relationship. There was a relationship. Besides
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > being prolific little snails, multitudes of tiny,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > white-worms appeared, and crawled over the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > surface. I don't think they (those snails and worms)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > need only uneaten food, but the snails will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > uneaten food, and plants, and the worms will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > uneaten food, and I believe the worms and snails can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > survive on the nitro bacteria that keep your water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > free of ammonia and nitrites, etc. ( 'tho the latter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > is an assumption, since uneaten food does not grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > on tank glass, and that's where you can find them,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > among other places..........and I know pre-visible
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > algae can be a source of food)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I would'nt BEGIN to THINK of using those little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > guys as a solution to my algae problem. Since seeing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > into your aquarium is part of why we buy them, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > seeing your garden is why we plant, scraping algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > from the front of the tank, and allowing algae for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > algae eaters on the sides and back is analgous to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > weeding a garden, and not expecting ground-hogs to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > do it. I believe I read recently on a fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > group thread that someone's had success with (what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > sounded like) the little creatures I'm describing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > but in my experience, and the testamony of others,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > including experts, they have no place in an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > aquarium. Acidic PH can eventually cause their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > dissappearance, but that's not necessarily good for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > your fish, or other charges. Snail-cides can ruin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > your plants or bio-filter. I feel sympathy for those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > little guys (God Bless Them), but they unfortunately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > don't seem to fit into aquaria.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > There sites on the net that claim to have plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > that are grown in ways that do not allow pond-snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > into their system. One is in Holland, I believe. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > you want plants devoid of pond-snails, you'll need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to look around.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > And if your plants are edible, they will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Hi, everyone. My planted Dwarf Gourami tank had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > been going along "swimmingly" ha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > ha, but one of my females decided overnight Monday
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > (I found her ailing Tuesday
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > morning) that she just is going to either prop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > herself up on the heater or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > plants, with her mouth just below the surface,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pushing up occasionally for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > gulp of air, or else lay on her side on the bottom
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > (she will swim away if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > nudged, reluctantly). All of my water levels are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > fine, as are all of the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > fish. There are no sores on her, or spots, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > critters attached to her, nor is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > she bloated. She looks normal, other than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pupils in her eyes being very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > small compared to her fellows... but then, she is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pretty much staring into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > light. Is it possible that one of my plants is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > poisonous and she ate some of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I have Aponogetons (6), and one each Java Moss,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Green Cabomba, Riccia, and Water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Sprite. I have moved her to my hospice tank and am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > dosing it with Melafix; is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > there anything else I can do for her?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > When I moved her there, I also discovered she has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > company - several snails, very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > tiny ones, pale brown in color, which apparently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > arrived as eggs in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Crystalwort (Riccia fluitans) that I have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > keeping there. The plants came
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > from a place in Florida, "Aquatic Plant Depot";
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > they were in a sealed plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > bag without any water in it when they arrived. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > had put a small amount of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Crystalwort in my 10 gallon tank, too, but haven't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > seen any snails in there...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > of course, my male dwarf gourami had relocated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > what I put in there to build his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > nest, piece by piece, but I didn't want my entire
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > surface covered with it, since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I have plants growing in there, so most of it got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tossed into the 2.5 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > hospice tank, where it has produced these surprise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > additions to my livestock. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > have no clue what kind they are... I can only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > guess they are either a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > snail that is native to Florida, one of the kind
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > with gills (since they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > crawling within the plants or on the bottom, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > interested in climbing to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > top), or else came from wherever this company got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the Riccia fluitans. My lone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Otocinclus can't keep up with the algae in my ten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > gallon tank, and the Dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Gouramis prefer the wafers (they don't feed off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the back or sides of the tank).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I was considering getting more otos, before
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > finding these. My hospice tank is as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > clear as a bell, so... should I move the snails to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the 10 gallon to help with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > this algae task, or would they eat the plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > instead of the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2990 From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogrou Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting, 7/3/2004, 6:30 pm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Reminder Reminder from the Calendar of FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Silicon Valley Aquarium Society ~ Meeting

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Saturday July 3, 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This event repeats on the first Saturday of every month.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Event Location: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave., San Jose CA, USA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Street: MEETING LOCATION: Round Table Pizza, 4302 Moorpark Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  City, State, Zip: San Jose, CA

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Notes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Silicon Valley Aquarium Society meetings are held the first Saturday of every month in San Jose. See http://www.svas.info for more information

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2991 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  my algea eater is about 8 inc hes and i have a 20 gallon.. and he tears up my plants too .. he is just so full of energy that he pushes them over and all around sometime si get up and have plants floating for that reason lol.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2992 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i was warned by tthe girl at petmart whom was giving me her experience not what the ppl behind the desk tell her to say that is why i like her.. but she said to keep the snails out as they jsut get overwhelming.. now i am sure everyone has their own preferance.. at first i thought i wanted snails but then i was like no way... i dont want that slimy stuff in my tank lol.. anhow the point of my post would be that i have bought plants from a few stores... as i alwasy make sure they look great and there are no signs of snails.. now what is funny is that the last time i bought plants was a few months ago and a few days ago in my tank i see two very tiny spots on my glass which was odd cause i cant even get algae to grow there and low and behold it was two darn snails now who knows where they came from but i toook them out and got rid of them and havent seen any since.. so i am wondering is there a way to control the snails and not have hundreds of them if you do in fact get them or want them or are you jsut doomed... bear in mind i am talking about having them in a community tank that has fish that wont eat them... thanks shannon

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Buying plants from sellers on the net that will not relate their plants do or do not harbor pond-snails or their eggs can land you in the kind of trouble you have now. My only experiences with pond-snails are that, if you buy from an LFS your chances of having pond snails are around 100%. Last week or so, I read on the net that they harbor flatworms. I'd read in fish-keeping books that they are carriers of parasites. I'd kept pond-snails alone in a small, one-gallon tank, (after buying plants, and then plucking them from my tank)  fed them, just to see what would happen, since the aforementioned (little worms) began appearing in my tanks, and I wanted to see if there was a relationship. There was a relationship. Besides being prolific little snails, multitudes of tiny, white-worms appeared, and crawled over the tank surface. I don't think they (those snails and worms) need only uneaten food, but the snails will eat uneaten food, and plants, and the worms will eat uneaten food, and I believe the worms and snails can survive on the nitro bacteria that keep your water free of ammonia and nitrites, etc. ( 'tho the latter is an assumption, since uneaten food does not grow on tank glass, and that's where you can find them, among other places..........and I know pre-visible algae can be a source of food)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     I would'nt BEGIN to THINK of using those little guys as a solution to my algae problem. Since seeing into your aquarium is part of why we buy them, and seeing your garden is why we plant, scraping algae from the front of the tank, and allowing algae for algae eaters on the sides and back is analgous to weeding a garden, and not expecting ground-hogs to do it. I believe I read recently on a fishkeeping group thread that someone's had success with (what sounded like)  the little creatures I'm describing, but in my experience, and the testamony of others, including experts, they have no place in an aquarium. Acidic PH can eventually cause their dissappearance, but that's not necessarily good for your fish, or other charges. Snail-cides can ruin your plants or bio-filter. I feel sympathy for those little guys (God Bless Them), but they unfortunately don't seem to fit into aquaria.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     There sites on the net that claim to have plants that are grown in ways that do not allow pond-snails into their system. One is in Holland, I believe. If you want plants devoid of pond-snails, you'll need to look around.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And if your plants are edible, they will eat them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2993 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       My only experience with aquarium snails is with pond-snails. Those snails were referred to as 'pond-snails', but I don't know what they really are. Descriptions on the net describe them as 'football'shaped, but the kind I found in my tanks certainly did'nt look like footballs, but were apparently black-spirals, wound more like a spring than two springs drawn out a little and placed wide-side together. They were usually around less than and no more then 1/4 inch long front to back as they were multiplying. There are people on this list that have snails that apparently are delights in an aquarium, so I would'nt take a negative attitude about all snails in a fish habitat, since not all snails behave the way the alleged pond-snails do. As far as mention in this thread concerning using pond-snails as food for fish, they carry worms/parasites, and the sick female Gourami mentioned at the beginning of this thread could have succumbed to the parasites, since I recently read Gouramis' like to eat snails.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i was warned by tthe girl at petmart whom was giving me her experience not what the ppl behind the desk tell her to say that is why i like her.. but she said to keep the snails out as they jsut get overwhelming.. now i am sure everyone has their own preferance.. at first i thought i wanted snails but then i was like no way... i dont want that slimy stuff in my tank lol.. anhow the point of my post would be that i have bought plants from a few stores... as i alwasy make sure they look great and there are no signs of snails.. now what is funny is that the last time i bought plants was a few months ago and a few days ago in my tank i see two very tiny spots on my glass which was odd cause i cant even get algae to grow there and low and behold it was two darn snails now who knows where they came from but i toook them out and got rid of them and havent seen any since.. so i am wondering is there a way to control the snails and not have hundreds of them if you do in fact get them or want them or are you jsut doomed... bear in mind i am talking about having them in a community tank that has fish that wont eat them... thanks shannon

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Buying plants from sellers on the net that will not relate their plants do or do not harbor pond-snails or their eggs can land you in the kind of trouble you have now. My only experiences with pond-snails are that, if you buy from an LFS your chances of having pond snails are around 100%. Last week or so, I read on the net that they harbor flatworms. I'd read in fish-keeping books that they are carriers of parasites. I'd kept pond-snails alone in a small, one-gallon tank, (after buying plants, and then plucking them from my tank) fed them, just to see what would happen, since the aforementioned (little worms) began appearing in my tanks, and I wanted to see if there was a relationship. There was a relationship. Besides being prolific little snails, multitudes of tiny, white-worms appeared, and crawled over the tank surface. I don't think they (those snails and worms) need only uneaten food, but the snails will eat uneaten food, and plants, and the worms will eat uneaten food, and I believe the worms and snails can survive on the nitro bacteria that keep your water free of ammonia and nitrites, etc. ( 'tho the latter is an assumption, since uneaten food does not grow on tank glass, and that's where you can find them, among other places..........and I know pre-visible algae can be a source of food)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I would'nt BEGIN to THINK of using those little guys as a solution to my algae problem. Since seeing into your aquarium is part of why we buy them, and seeing your garden is why we plant, scraping algae from the front of the tank, and allowing algae for algae eaters on the sides and back is analgous to weeding a garden, and not expecting ground-hogs to do it. I believe I read recently on a fishkeeping group thread that someone's had success with (what sounded like) the little creatures I'm describing, but in my experience, and the testamony of others, including experts, they have no place in an aquarium. Acidic PH can eventually cause their dissappearance, but that's not necessarily good for your fish, or other charges. Snail-cides can ruin your plants or bio-filter. I feel sympathy for those little guys (God Bless Them), but they unfortunately don't seem to fit into aquaria.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There sites on the net that claim to have plants that are grown in ways that do not allow pond-snails into their system. One is in Holland, I believe. If you want plants devoid of pond-snails, you'll need to look around.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And if your plants are edible, they will eat them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe P







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2994 From: bryants4god Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The kind you are describing are ramshorn snails (planorbis).  They are good snails to have around.  Pest snails are not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       My only experience with aquarium snails is with pond-snails. Those snails were referred to as 'pond-snails', but I don't know what they really are. Descriptions on the net describe them as 'football'shaped, but the kind I found in my tanks certainly did'nt look like footballs, but were apparently black-spirals, wound more like a spring than two springs drawn out a little and placed wide-side together. They were usually around less than and no more then 1/4 inch long front to back as they were multiplying. There are people on this list that have snails that apparently are delights in an aquarium, so I would'nt take a negative attitude about all snails in a fish habitat, since not all snails behave the way the alleged pond-snails do. As far as mention in this thread concerning using pond-snails as food for fish, they carry worms/parasites, and the sick female Gourami mentioned at the beginning of this thread could have succumbed to the parasites, since I recently read Gouramis' like to eat snails.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 2995 From: Patrick Date: 6/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It is funny to see someone say that ramshorn sails are good.  Most of the literature says they are terrible plant eaters.  It is good to know there is someone else that knows the truth about them.  The ones I have never eat good leaves, but do great work on those that die off.  They aren't the greatest algae eaters in the world, but that is what the ottos are for.  And what the individual lacks the group makes up for in numbers. :) When I get too many, I throw in a piece of squash for the pleco and ottos.  What is left over comes out with a few dozen snails on it and they are removed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The kind you are describing are ramshorn snails (planorbis).  They are good snails to have around.  Pest snails are not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Terri Bryant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2996 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you must have never had a real outbreak in your tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    when they get into large numbers they eat anything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    green, not just the dying leaves. i have even seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    them latch onto fish before. they can populate the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank in the hundreds. you can go from 1 to 100 in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    just a few weeks

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > It is funny to see someone say that ramshorn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sails are good. Most of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the literature says they are terrible plant eaters.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > It is good to know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > there is someone else that knows the truth about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them. The ones I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > never eat good leaves, but do great work on those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that die off. They aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the greatest algae eaters in the world, but that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > what the ottos are for.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > And what the individual lacks the group makes up for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in numbers. :) When I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > get too many, I throw in a piece of squash for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pleco and ottos. What is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > left over comes out with a few dozen snails on it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and they are removed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 2 neons and 3 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > raised guppy, 3 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > betta, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > inexperienced fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > The kind you are describing are ramshorn snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (planorbis). They are good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > snails to have around. Pest snails are not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Terri Bryant




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2997 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    shannon, the only way that i have seenanyone get rid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of them completely without using clown loaches is to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    start a whole new tank with new filters, and transfer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the fish. they will lay eggs in your filters as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    as the uplift tubes, and on anything smooth, porous,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    or warm. it seems that a few people on here like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    them, but i have a feeling that they have never woken
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    up to 100-200 of them all over their plants. you may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    not notice them at first, and then all of a sudden
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they are everywhere. the chemicals to kill them don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    work. they have become such a nuissance in california
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that they are now illegal to sell. they have gotten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    into some of the creek systems and are destroying the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    creek vegetation. i know this because i was given
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    notice by the state that i could no longer sell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ramshorn snails. to those who think they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    great.....are you nuts?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > i was warned by tthe girl at petmart whom was giving
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > me her experience not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > what the ppl behind the desk tell her to say that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > why i like her.. but she
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > said to keep the snails out as they jsut get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > overwhelming.. now i am sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > everyone has their own preferance.. at first i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > thought i wanted snails but then i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > was like no way... i dont want that slimy stuff in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > my tank lol.. anhow the point
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of my post would be that i have bought plants from a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > few stores... as i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > alwasy make sure they look great and there are no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > signs of snails.. now what is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > funny is that the last time i bought plants was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > few months ago and a few days
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ago in my tank i see two very tiny spots on my glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > which was odd cause i cant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > even get algae to grow there and low and behold it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > was two darn snails now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > who knows where they came from but i toook them out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and got rid of them and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > havent seen any since.. so i am wondering is there a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > way to control the snails and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not have hundreds of them if you do in fact get them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > or want them or are you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > jsut doomed... bear in mind i am talking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > having them in a community tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that has fish that wont eat them... thanks shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Buying plants from sellers on the net that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > will not relate their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants do or do not harbor pond-snails or their eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > can land you in the kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > trouble you have now. My only experiences with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pond-snails are that, if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > buy from an LFS your chances of having pond snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are around 100%. Last week or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > so, I read on the net that they harbor flatworms.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'd read in fish-keeping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > books that they are carriers of parasites. I'd kept
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pond-snails alone in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > small, one-gallon tank, (after buying plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > then plucking them from my tank)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fed them, just to see what would happen, since the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aforementioned (little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > worms) began appearing in my tanks, and I wanted to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > see if there was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > relationship. There was a relationship. Besides
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > being prolific little snails, multitudes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of tiny, white-worms appeared, and crawled over the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank surface. I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > think they (those snails and worms) need only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > uneaten food, but the snails will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > eat uneaten food, and plants, and the worms will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > uneaten food, and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > believe the worms and snails can survive on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > nitro bacteria that keep your water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > free of ammonia and nitrites, etc. ( 'tho the latter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is an assumption, since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > uneaten food does not grow on tank glass, and that's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > where you can find them,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > among other places..........and I know pre-visible
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > algae can be a source of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > food)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I would'nt BEGIN to THINK of using those little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > guys as a solution to my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > algae problem. Since seeing into your aquarium is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > part of why we buy them, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > seeing your garden is why we plant, scraping algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > from the front of the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and allowing algae for algae eaters on the sides and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > back is analgous to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > weeding a garden, and not expecting ground-hogs to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > do it. I believe I read
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > recently on a fishkeeping group thread that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > someone's had success with (what sounded
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > like) the little creatures I'm describing, but in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > my experience, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > testamony of others, including experts, they have no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > place in an aquarium. Acidic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > PH can eventually cause their dissappearance, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that's not necessarily good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > for your fish, or other charges. Snail-cides can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ruin your plants or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > bio-filter. I feel sympathy for those little guys
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (God Bless Them), but they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > unfortunately don't seem to fit into aquaria.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > There sites on the net that claim to have plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that are grown in ways
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that do not allow pond-snails into their system. One
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is in Holland, I believe.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If you want plants devoid of pond-snails, you'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > need to look around.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > And if your plants are edible, they will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2998 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    best thing to do is to run the plants ina hospital
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank for 3 weeks to make sure no snails hatch



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Buying plants from sellers on the net that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > will not relate their plants do or do not harbor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pond-snails or their eggs can land you in the kind
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of trouble you have now. My only experiences with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pond-snails are that, if you buy from an LFS your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > chances of having pond snails are around 100%. Last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > week or so, I read on the net that they harbor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > flatworms. I'd read in fish-keeping books that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are carriers of parasites. I'd kept pond-snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > alone in a small, one-gallon tank, (after buying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > plants, and then plucking them from my tank) fed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them, just to see what would happen, since the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aforementioned (little worms) began appearing in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tanks, and I wanted to see if there was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > relationship. There was a relationship. Besides
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > being prolific little snails, multitudes of tiny,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > white-worms appeared, and crawled over the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > surface. I don't think they (those snails and worms)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > need only uneaten food, but the snails will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > uneaten food, and plants, and the worms will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > uneaten food, and I believe the worms and snails can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > survive on the nitro bacteria that keep your water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > free of ammonia and nitrites, etc. ( 'tho the latter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is an assumption, since uneaten food does not grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on tank glass, and that's where you can find them,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > among other places..........and I know pre-visible
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > algae can be a source of food)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I would'nt BEGIN to THINK of using those little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > guys as a solution to my algae problem. Since seeing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > into your aquarium is part of why we buy them, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > seeing your garden is why we plant, scraping algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > from the front of the tank, and allowing algae for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > algae eaters on the sides and back is analgous to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > weeding a garden, and not expecting ground-hogs to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > do it. I believe I read recently on a fishkeeping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > group thread that someone's had success with (what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sounded like) the little creatures I'm describing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > but in my experience, and the testamony of others,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > including experts, they have no place in an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium. Acidic PH can eventually cause their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > dissappearance, but that's not necessarily good for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > your fish, or other charges. Snail-cides can ruin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > your plants or bio-filter. I feel sympathy for those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > little guys (God Bless Them), but they unfortunately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > don't seem to fit into aquaria.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > There sites on the net that claim to have plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that are grown in ways that do not allow pond-snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > into their system. One is in Holland, I believe. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > you want plants devoid of pond-snails, you'll need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to look around.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > And if your plants are edible, they will eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hi, everyone. My planted Dwarf Gourami tank had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > been going along "swimmingly" ha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > ha, but one of my females decided overnight Monday
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (I found her ailing Tuesday
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > morning) that she just is going to either prop
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > herself up on the heater or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > plants, with her mouth just below the surface,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pushing up occasionally for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > gulp of air, or else lay on her side on the bottom
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (she will swim away if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > nudged, reluctantly). All of my water levels are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fine, as are all of the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > fish. There are no sores on her, or spots, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > critters attached to her, nor is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > she bloated. She looks normal, other than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pupils in her eyes being very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > small compared to her fellows... but then, she is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pretty much staring into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > light. Is it possible that one of my plants is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > poisonous and she ate some of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I have Aponogetons (6), and one each Java Moss,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Green Cabomba, Riccia, and Water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Sprite. I have moved her to my hospice tank and am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > dosing it with Melafix; is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > there anything else I can do for her?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > When I moved her there, I also discovered she has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > company - several snails, very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > tiny ones, pale brown in color, which apparently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > arrived as eggs in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Crystalwort (Riccia fluitans) that I have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > keeping there. The plants came
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > from a place in Florida, "Aquatic Plant Depot";
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > they were in a sealed plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > bag without any water in it when they arrived. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > had put a small amount of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Crystalwort in my 10 gallon tank, too, but haven't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > seen any snails in there...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > of course, my male dwarf gourami had relocated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > what I put in there to build his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > nest, piece by piece, but I didn't want my entire
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > surface covered with it, since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I have plants growing in there, so most of it got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tossed into the 2.5 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > hospice tank, where it has produced these surprise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > additions to my livestock. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > have no clue what kind they are... I can only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > guess they are either a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > snail that is native to Florida, one of the kind
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with gills (since they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > crawling within the plants or on the bottom, not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > interested in climbing to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > top), or else came from wherever this company got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the Riccia fluitans. My lone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Otocinclus can't keep up with the algae in my ten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gallon tank, and the Dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Gouramis prefer the wafers (they don't feed off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the back or sides of the tank).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I was considering getting more otos, before
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > finding these. My hospice tank is as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > clear as a bell, so... should I move the snails to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the 10 gallon to help with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > this algae task, or would they eat the plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > instead of the algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 2999 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree with you Patrick. 70 gallons or more for a normal pleco. There
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    are some that stay small, bushynose, clown, among others. Commons,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gibbices and many others grow in excess of 18 inches. I love them so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    much, though, gotta have them. But my largest tank right now is a 46 so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I can only keep them for about 2 years then back to the store they go.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3000 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm sorry, I misspoke, they absorb O2 at night, not release CO2.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3001 From: renee31477 Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So, you can manually remove the snails, but what about the little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      worms? I started seeing the little tiny worms swimming around when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cleaned my tank last night....I have had this tank (5 gallon with 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      plants and a betta) since mid March...I have seen a few small pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      snails,, but they havent mulitplied like everyone says they would...i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      guess Im paying for not removing them right away.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Any ideas on how to rid my tank of this "parasite?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Renee

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Buying plants from sellers on the net that will not relate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      their plants do or do not harbor pond-snails or their eggs can land
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you in the kind of trouble you have now. My only experiences with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pond-snails are that, if you buy from an LFS your chances of having
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pond snails are around 100%. Last week or so, I read on the net that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      they harbor flatworms. I'd read in fish-keeping books that they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      carriers of parasites. I'd kept pond-snails alone in a small, one-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      gallon tank, (after buying plants, and then plucking them from my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank) fed them, just to see what would happen, since the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      aforementioned (little worms) began appearing in my tanks, and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      wanted to see if there was a relationship. There was a relationship.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Besides being prolific little snails, multitudes of tiny, white-worms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      appeared, and crawled over the tank surface. I don't think they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (those snails and worms) need only uneaten food, but the snails will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      eat uneaten food, and plants, and the worms will eat uneaten food,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and I believe the worms and snails can survive on the nitro bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that keep your water free of ammonia and nitrites, etc. ( 'tho the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      latter is an assumption, since uneaten food does not grow on tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      glass, and that's where you can find them, among other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      places..........and I know pre-visible algae can be a source of food)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I would'nt BEGIN to THINK of using those little guys as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      solution to my algae problem. Since seeing into your aquarium is part
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of why we buy them, and seeing your garden is why we plant, scraping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      algae from the front of the tank, and allowing algae for algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      on the sides and back is analgous to weeding a garden, and not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      expecting ground-hogs to do it. I believe I read recently on a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fishkeeping group thread that someone's had success with (what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sounded like) the little creatures I'm describing, but in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      experience, and the testamony of others, including experts, they have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      no place in an aquarium. Acidic PH can eventually cause their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      dissappearance, but that's not necessarily good for your fish, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      other charges. Snail-cides can ruin your plants or bio-filter. I feel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sympathy for those little guys (God Bless Them), but they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      unfortunately don't seem to fit into aquaria.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > There sites on the net that claim to have plants that are grown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in ways that do not allow pond-snails into their system. One is in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Holland, I believe. If you want plants devoid of pond-snails, you'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      need to look around.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > And if your plants are edible, they will eat them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Hi, everyone. My planted Dwarf Gourami tank had been going
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      along "swimmingly" ha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > ha, but one of my females decided overnight Monday (I found her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ailing Tuesday
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > morning) that she just is going to either prop herself up on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      heater or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > plants, with her mouth just below the surface, pushing up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      occasionally for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > gulp of air, or else lay on her side on the bottom (she will swim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      away if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > nudged, reluctantly). All of my water levels are fine, as are all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > fish. There are no sores on her, or spots, or critters attached
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to her, nor is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > she bloated. She looks normal, other than the pupils in her eyes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      being very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > small compared to her fellows... but then, she is pretty much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      staring into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > light. Is it possible that one of my plants is poisonous and she
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ate some of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > I have Aponogetons (6), and one each Java Moss, Green Cabomba,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Riccia, and Water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Sprite. I have moved her to my hospice tank and am dosing it with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Melafix; is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > there anything else I can do for her?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > When I moved her there, I also discovered she has company -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      several snails, very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > tiny ones, pale brown in color, which apparently arrived as eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Crystalwort (Riccia fluitans) that I have been keeping there. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      plants came
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > from a place in Florida, "Aquatic Plant Depot"; they were in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sealed plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > bag without any water in it when they arrived. I had put a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      amount of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Crystalwort in my 10 gallon tank, too, but haven't seen any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      snails in there...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > of course, my male dwarf gourami had relocated what I put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      there to build his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > nest, piece by piece, but I didn't want my entire surface covered
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      with it, since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > I have plants growing in there, so most of it got tossed into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2.5 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > hospice tank, where it has produced these surprise additions to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      my livestock. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > have no clue what kind they are... I can only guess they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      either a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > snail that is native to Florida, one of the kind with gills
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (since they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > crawling within the plants or on the bottom, not interested in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      climbing to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > top), or else came from wherever this company got the Riccia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fluitans. My lone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Otocinclus can't keep up with the algae in my ten gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and the Dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Gouramis prefer the wafers (they don't feed off the back or sides
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of the tank).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > I was considering getting more otos, before finding these. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hospice tank is as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > clear as a bell, so... should I move the snails to the 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to help with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > this algae task, or would they eat the plants instead of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3002 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Psst, I need a flying fox..... Willing to rehabilitate one that can be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      returned to the wild.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hey, just wishful thinking. I see photos and programs about the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      rehabers with bats hanging all over them and find myself quite jealous.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I do have a rehab license but most people will kill a bat before they'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bring it to me. Go figure, people will get help for everything but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bats, mice or rats. Mice and rats are disease carriers, but 1 sick bat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      will destroy a whole colony because they are so social, the constant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cleaning of each other will spread disease almost over day (not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      night:-). If 1 bat has rabies, the disease will destroy the colony in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      less than a week. That's why a family pet is more likely to give you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      rabies, being in the yard during the day, when racoons, opossums,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      squirrels or other animals carrying disease will make contact. Oops,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sorry for the OT rambling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3003 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You say one is fat? Do you use salt? Might they have internal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      parasites? What does the fecal matter look like? Could you tell us
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      what your water test read at, not just "they are perfect" because they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      might not be. Often tests are done at a petstore and they say that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've been guillty of that, but I always try to catch myself. You should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      be given a reading for each test. How big are they and what size tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Might be they are feeling crowded and are releasing hormones to slow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      their growth, but these hormones are very harmful. How often do you do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      water changes?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3004 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's good to know Paul. I don't carry them at my store anymore, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the catalogs still refer to them as lead weights. Might this just be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      lingering "name" because that's how they've always been sold?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3005 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: disease or parasites, Fishkeeping 101
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      No problem Jeff. I've added your address and will forward you a digest.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      As for being back, I take it you're a member of Tropical Fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Connection, too. I've left that board, at least for now. My little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      feud was a distraction that didn't deserve to be carried out on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      board. So out of respect for the moderators and most of the members,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've opted out for now. Just be wary of information quoted from books
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      printed before the industrial revolution :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3006 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yeah, Joe, I don't think I'll have my Bioengineering degree done until I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      finish Microbiology degree and I don't think I can get that until I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      finish my Biochemistry thesus..................But having fish sure is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      FUN!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3007 From: bryants4god Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Are the worms short and thread like? Completely white or red on the end? They could be planaria or tubiflex which are harmless (IMHO). I may have missed the post but if you could give a more detailed description.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: renee31477 [mailto:renee31477@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:38 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So, you can manually remove the snails, but what about the little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      worms? I started seeing the little tiny worms swimming around when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cleaned my tank last night....I have had this tank (5 gallon with 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      plants and a betta) since mid March...I have seen a few small pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      snails,, but they havent mulitplied like everyone says they would...i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      guess Im paying for not removing them right away.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Any ideas on how to rid my tank of this "parasite?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Renee


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3008 From: bryants4god Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: intro
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Forest Floor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I guess I had better introduce myself, especially after being called crazy already lol.. I like ramshorns.  Anyway I raise pomacea bridgesii snails.  I have 10 tanks, one has fish. I also have 4 turtles.  I have been lurking for a while, lots a good info passes along this list.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3009 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        When I finally, wew, get through my messages and find the plants group,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        go to the archives, there was a lot of diiscussion about cichlids and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        plants. If you repost this question, some folks there will get a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        snarky. So you just might as well go to archives first.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3010 From: renee31477 Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        short, threadlike, completely white...they swim like caterpillers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        walk...only they do it vertically , if that makes sense...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "bryants4god"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <bryants4god@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Are the worms short and thread like? Completely white or red on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        end?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > They could be planaria or tubiflex which are harmless (IMHO). I may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > missed the post but if you could give a more detailed description.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Terri Bryant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Over The Rainbow Snails.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Over The Rainbow Snails - Aquabid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Over The Rainbow Snails - Ebay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > From: renee31477 [mailto:renee31477@y...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:38 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Snails and sick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > So, you can manually remove the snails, but what about the little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > worms? I started seeing the little tiny worms swimming around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > cleaned my tank last night....I have had this tank (5 gallon with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > plants and a betta) since mid March...I have seen a few small pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > snails,, but they havent mulitplied like everyone says they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        would...i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > guess Im paying for not removing them right away.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Any ideas on how to rid my tank of this "parasite?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Renee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3011 From: Patrick Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I suspect that the particular species we have in Tennessee and maybe other areas (or it might not have anything to do with location at all) are not the same species that cause so much trouble.  I checked pictures of ramshorn snails last night and noticed that there is more than one species with that name.  I have somewhere in the 100-200 range of them in my 29 gallon, but I can easily keep them under control.  I have a paradise gourami in there that probably eats some of the smaller ones.  Sometimes I crush their shells and let the cories eat on them (which is most likely safe because I doubt they can carry parasites that are harmful to fish).  Then again, one day I might wake up and not be able to see the fish through the layer of snails on the glass. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          shannon, the only way that i have seenanyone get rid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          of them completely without using clown loaches is to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          start a whole new tank with new filters, and transfer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the fish.  they will lay eggs in your filters as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          as the uplift tubes, and on anything smooth, porous,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          or warm.  it seems that a few people on here like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          them, but i have a feeling that they have never woken
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          up to 100-200 of them all over their plants.  you may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          not notice them at first, and then all of a sudden
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they are everywhere.  the chemicals to kill them don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          work.  they have become such a nuissance in california
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that they are now illegal to sell.  they have gotten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          into some of the creek systems and are destroying the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          creek vegetation.  i know this because i was given
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          notice by the state that i could no longer sell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ramshorn snails.  to those who think they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          great.....are you nuts?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3012 From: bryants4god Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Those are planaria, completely harmless, they usually appear in good established tanks when there has been some overfeeding going on. Depending on the fish in your tank, skipping one day of feeding and a light vacuuming of the gravel should get rid of them.  In a way they are a complement, they will not appear in poor water conditions.   If you can't skip feeding, cut them back in quantity of food and vacuum.  I have gotten them a couple of times and followed these directions which I got from www.applesnails.net and they have always been gone in 24 hours.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: renee31477 [mailto:renee31477@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          short, threadlike, completely white...they swim like caterpillers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          walk...only they do it vertically , if that makes sense...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "bryants4god"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <bryants4god@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Are the worms short and thread like? Completely white or red on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          end?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > They could be planaria or tubiflex which are harmless (IMHO). I may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > missed the post but if you could give a more detailed description.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3013 From: renee31477 Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          THanks Terry! I did jsut vacuum, but I will cut back on feeding too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          BTW, I just bid on your blue mystery snail!! he is sooo cute!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Renee in MI

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "bryants4god"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <bryants4god@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Those are planaria, completely harmless, they usually appear in good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > established tanks when there has been some overfeeding going on.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Depending
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > on the fish in your tank, skipping one day of feeding and a light
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          vacuuming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of the gravel should get rid of them. In a way they are a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          complement, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > will not appear in poor water conditions. If you can't skip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          feeding, cut
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > them back in quantity of food and vacuum. I have gotten them a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > times and followed these directions which I got from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          www.applesnails.net and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > they have always been gone in 24 hours.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Terri Bryant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Over The Rainbow Snails.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Over The Rainbow Snails - Aquabid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Over The Rainbow Snails - Ebay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > From: renee31477 [mailto:renee31477@y...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Snails and sick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > short, threadlike, completely white...they swim like caterpillers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > walk...only they do it vertically , if that makes sense...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "bryants4god"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > <bryants4god@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Are the worms short and thread like? Completely white or red on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > end?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > They could be planaria or tubiflex which are harmless (IMHO). I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > missed the post but if you could give a more detailed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          description.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3014 From: bryants4god Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There is a common ramshorn (planorbis) and there is an apple snail ramshorn which has a trap door and are commonly called giant ramshorn snails, they are really Marisa cornuarietis These are the kind that will eat almost anything they come across including live plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The common ramshorn doesn't have a trap door and as a general rule doesn't prefer live plants when other food sources are available.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you don't want to look for the trap door you can also tell by their eggs, common ramshorns lay flat patches of eggs the other kinds lays theirs in globby masses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: Patrick [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I suspect that the particular species we have in Tennessee and maybe other areas (or it might not have anything to do with location at all) are not the same species that cause so much trouble.  I checked pictures of ramshorn snails last night and noticed that there is more than one species with that name.  I have somewhere in the 100-200 range of them in my 29 gallon, but I can easily keep them under control.  I have a paradise gourami in there that probably eats some of the smaller ones.  Sometimes I crush their shells and let the cories eat on them (which is most likely safe because I doubt they can carry parasites that are harmful to fish).  Then again, one day I might wake up and not be able to see the fish through the layer of snails on the glass. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i was given
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          notice by the state that i could no longer sell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ramshorn snails.  to those who think they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          great.....are you nuts?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3015 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          those usually come from too much muck in the substrate. feed a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          less, vacuum a little more, and if you can find them, get a couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          raspboras. they LOVE to eat them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jul 1, 2004, at 10:37 AM, renee31477 wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > So, you can manually remove the snails, but what about the little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > worms? I started seeing the little tiny worms swimming around when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > cleaned my tank last night....I have had this tank (5 gallon with 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > plants and a betta) since mid March...I have seen a few small pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > snails,, but they havent mulitplied like everyone says they would...i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > guess Im paying for not removing them right away.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Any ideas on how to rid my tank of this "parasite?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Renee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >          Buying plants from sellers on the net that will not relate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > their plants do or do not harbor pond-snails or their eggs can land
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > you in the kind of trouble you have now. My only experiences with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > pond-snails are that, if you buy from an LFS your chances of having
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > pond snails are around 100%. Last week or so, I read on the net that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > they harbor flatworms. I'd read in fish-keeping books that they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > carriers of parasites. I'd kept pond-snails alone in a small, one-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gallon tank, (after buying plants, and then plucking them from my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tank)  fed them, just to see what would happen, since the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > aforementioned (little worms) began appearing in my tanks, and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > wanted to see if there was a relationship. There was a relationship.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Besides being prolific little snails, multitudes of tiny, white-worms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > appeared, and crawled over the tank surface. I don't think they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (those snails and worms) need only uneaten food, but the snails will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > eat uneaten food, and plants, and the worms will eat uneaten food,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and I believe the worms and snails can survive on the nitro bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > that keep your water free of ammonia and nitrites, etc. ( 'tho the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > latter is an assumption, since uneaten food does not grow on tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > glass, and that's where you can find them, among other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > places..........and I know pre-visible algae can be a source of food)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >    I would'nt BEGIN to THINK of using those little guys as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > solution to my algae problem. Since seeing into your aquarium is part
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of why we buy them, and seeing your garden is why we plant, scraping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > algae from the front of the tank, and allowing algae for algae eaters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > on the sides and back is analgous to weeding a garden, and not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > expecting ground-hogs to do it. I believe I read recently on a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fishkeeping group thread that someone's had success with (what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > sounded like)  the little creatures I'm describing, but in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > experience, and the testamony of others, including experts, they have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > no place in an aquarium. Acidic PH can eventually cause their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > dissappearance, but that's not necessarily good for your fish, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > other charges. Snail-cides can ruin your plants or bio-filter. I feel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > sympathy for those little guys (God Bless Them), but they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > unfortunately don't seem to fit into aquaria.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >    There sites on the net that claim to have plants that are grown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > in ways that do not allow pond-snails into their system. One is in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Holland, I believe. If you want plants devoid of pond-snails, you'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > need to look around.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >     And if your plants are edible, they will eat them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >                    Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Hi, everyone. My planted Dwarf Gourami tank had been going
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > along "swimmingly" ha
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > ha, but one of my females decided overnight Monday (I found her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ailing Tuesday
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > morning) that she just is going to either prop herself up on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > heater or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > plants, with her mouth just below the surface, pushing up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > occasionally for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > gulp of air, or else lay on her side on the bottom (she will swim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > away if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > nudged, reluctantly). All of my water levels are fine, as are all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > fish. There are no sores on her, or spots, or critters attached
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > to her, nor is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > she bloated. She looks normal, other than the pupils in her eyes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > being very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > small compared to her fellows... but then, she is pretty much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > staring into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > light. Is it possible that one of my plants is poisonous and she
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ate some of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I have Aponogetons (6), and one each Java Moss, Green Cabomba,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Riccia, and Water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Sprite. I have moved her to my hospice tank and am dosing it with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Melafix; is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > there anything else I can do for her?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > When I moved her there, I also discovered she has company -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > several snails, very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > tiny ones, pale brown in color, which apparently arrived as eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Crystalwort (Riccia fluitans) that I have been keeping there. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > plants came
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > from a place in Florida, "Aquatic Plant Depot"; they were in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > sealed plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > bag without any water in it when they arrived. I had put a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > amount of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Crystalwort in my 10 gallon tank, too, but haven't seen any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > snails in there...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > of course, my male dwarf gourami had relocated what I put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > there to build his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > nest, piece by piece, but I didn't want my entire surface covered
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with it, since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I have plants growing in there, so most of it got tossed into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 2.5 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > hospice tank, where it has produced these surprise additions to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > my livestock. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > have no clue what kind they are... I can only guess they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > either a freshwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > snail that is native to Florida, one of the kind with gills
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (since they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > crawling within the plants or on the bottom, not interested in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > climbing to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > top), or else came from wherever this company got the Riccia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fluitans. My lone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Otocinclus can't keep up with the algae in my ten gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and the Dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Gouramis prefer the wafers (they don't feed off the back or sides
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of the tank).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I was considering getting more otos, before finding these. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hospice tank is as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > clear as a bell, so... should I move the snails to the 10 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > to help with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > this algae task, or would they eat the plants instead of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bored? fear not! hit up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you know you want to....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3016 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Excellent point once again,,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Actually killing of any wildlife is illegal.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In one of my animal science classes my egotistical lecturer started in about "Vermin" . I posed a question, "You are a chicken rancher, once or twice a week a red tailed hawk takes a chicken, can you shot or poison the bird of prey?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Of course he said yes... I readied for the full broadsides on him. It's illegal to kill wildlife that is not showing signs of rabies even if it is effecting your business. It started a debate which didn't end for the rest of the lecture...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wildlife is protected, but people will kill a bat without any worry for the actions they take, but after killing several bats they wonder why there are so many mosquitoes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 3:53 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] opossum death card

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Psst, I need a flying fox.....  Willing to rehabilitate one that can be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          returned to the wild. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hey, just wishful thinking.  I see photos and programs about the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          rehabers with bats hanging all over them and find myself quite jealous.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I do have a rehab license but most people will kill a bat before they'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bring it to me.  Go figure, people will get help for everything but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bats, mice or rats.  Mice and rats are disease carriers, but 1 sick bat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          will destroy a whole colony because they are so social, the constant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cleaning of each other will spread disease almost over day (not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          night:-).  If 1 bat has rabies, the disease will destroy the colony in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          less than a week.  That's why a family pet is more likely to give you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          rabies, being in the yard during the day, when racoons, opossums,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          squirrels or other animals carrying disease will make contact.  Oops,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sorry for the OT rambling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "Damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3017 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Time for the loaches,, they really are eccellant snail controllers. As for transferable parasites, nematodes would be the only worry and if they had them they would already be in the tanks water column.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for crushing them to feed the fish, I say yes, they love fresh food, surprised the paradise isn't right there for the feast...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just don't use snailacides, they will do more damage then anything a snail can do..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            maqrk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 4:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I suspect that the particular species we have in Tennessee and maybe other areas (or it might not have anything to do with location at all) are not the same species that cause so much trouble.  I checked pictures of ramshorn snails last night and noticed that there is more than one species with that name.  I have somewhere in the 100-200 range of them in my 29 gallon, but I can easily keep them under control.  I have a paradise gourami in there that probably eats some of the smaller ones.  Sometimes I crush their shells and let the cories eat on them (which is most likely safe because I doubt they can carry parasites that are harmful to fish).  Then again, one day I might wake up and not be able to see the fish through the layer of snails on the glass. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            shannon, the only way that i have seenanyone get rid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of them completely without using clown loaches is to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            start a whole new tank with new filters, and transfer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the fish.  they will lay eggs in your filters as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            as the uplift tubes, and on anything smooth, porous,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            or warm.  it seems that a few people on here like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            them, but i have a feeling that they have never woken
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            up to 100-200 of them all over their plants.  you may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            not notice them at first, and then all of a sudden
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            they are everywhere.  the chemicals to kill them don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            work.  they have become such a nuissance in california
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that they are now illegal to sell.  they have gotten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            into some of the creek systems and are destroying the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            creek vegetation.  i know this because i was given
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            notice by the state that i could no longer sell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ramshorn snails.  to those who think they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            great.....are you nuts?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3018 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Algae eaters don't do what their name says , buty will harrass and attack fish. They are not worth keeping as they don;t ever touch algae unless there is nother else to ea . mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 3:26 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Two Questions...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my algea eater is about 8 inc hes and i have a 20 gallon.. and he tears up my plants too .. he is just so full of energy that he pushes them over and all around sometime si get up and have plants floating for that reason lol.. shannon

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3019 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Digest Number 274
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Message: 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 01:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >best thing to do is to run the plants ina hospital
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >tank for 3 weeks to make sure no snails hatch

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This is what I had done - I left the Riccia fluitans in my 2.5 gallon hospice tank, which was unoccupied and unsuitable for fish at the time (pH about 9, hardness about 300; other levels okay). I was adding ammonia to it (8 drops every two days) to keep the bacteria fed, was doing water changes every 2 weeks, had changed out the carbon and rinsed the sponge in the "disposable" filter, and had added distilled vinegar and a piece of lava rock (from the garden around my pond) to it to try to reduce the pH and hardness a bit, and pH was still pretty high. No snail eggs have hatched in my other tank, I have only found them in the hospice tank, and it just happened to be when I moved the sick fish into it. They are not ramshorn or apple snails, they are some type with the coil on the back end as opposed to the side. The coil has the opening on the left side if you are looking at it from the back (coils counter clockwise from inside to outside) so I figured they are some sort from the family Physidae. But maybe I was supposed to be looking at it from the front, who knows? They are not black snails like the ones I have seen in my pond, they are a pretty golden brown color, and the shells are very transparent in appearance. The flesh of the snails is off-white. And there are some that are larger than others, but they are all very tiny, the largest less than 3 mm.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Also, when my female dwarf Gourami got sick (Monday night-Tuesday), she was in the 10 gallon planted tank, not the hospice tank, so it wasn't from eating the snails or their parasites. The water levels in that tank, where my other fish remain healthy: ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate btwn 20 and 40, pH 7.2, GH 120, KH 180, calc CO2 about 18. Only algae I have is very fine dots of green on the glass and my plants (I clean the front when I do my water changes) and some brown algae on the aponogeton leaves that my male dwarf Gourami used to construct his nest, some brown along the spout of the filter, and one small spot of brown on one side of the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            She never ate anything while she was in the hospice tank, she just propped herself up on the heater or within the Riccia; I had dosed her Tuesday and Wednesday mornings with Melafix; she was dead this morning, by the way, on the bottom.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3020 From: muskie4817 Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: How to tell if a fish is pregnant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            How do you tell if a Platy is pregnant and how long should it take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to have babies if she is?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3021 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               H'lo,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've never been sure about identifying the worms that appeared after the introduction of little-black-snails. One behaviour I observbed on a (my) female-Betta was;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ...............the worm had attached evidently its posterior end on the surface of the fish, and appeared to be insistantly trying to pry its way under a scale. That worm resembled the other worms in the tank, the description of worms in this thread, and if that's a behaviour of planaria, I'd be edified. I think, since so many small worms resemble one another, and a Gourami on this thread died after the introduction of snails-brought-in-with-plants, which coincided with the appearance of worms, there's a possibility the worms are'nt planaria. An autopsy on the Gourami could find the cause of death, or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Those are planaria, completely harmless, they usually appear in good established tanks when there has been some overfeeding going on. Depending on the fish in your tank, skipping one day of feeding and a light vacuuming of the gravel should get rid of them. In a way they are a complement, they will not appear in poor water conditions. If you can't skip feeding, cut them back in quantity of food and vacuum. I have gotten them a couple of times and followed these directions which I got from www.applesnails.net and they have always been gone in 24 hours.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: renee31477 [mailto:renee31477@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            short, threadlike, completely white...they swim like caterpillers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            walk...only they do it vertically , if that makes sense...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "bryants4god"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Are the worms short and thread like? Completely white or red on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            end?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > They could be planaria or tubiflex which are harmless (IMHO). I may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > missed the post but if you could give a more detailed description.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3022 From: Sarah Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            He/she has actually eating tonight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Water is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            PH between 6.5 and 7.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nitrate between 0 and 10mg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nitrite 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ammonia 0 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And we do the water testing myself. No i don't use salt (apart for salt baths on very sick fish which has been only twice so far) 2 of the 4 are very fat but it aint dropsy. The tank is 100 litre and they are between 2 1/2 and 3 inches. I do water changes once every 3 weeks, We have 2 filters running in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: 07/01/04 16:00:43
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            You say one is fat?  Do you use salt?  Might they have internal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            parasites?  What does the fecal matter look like?  Could you tell us
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            what your water test read at, not just "they are perfect" because they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            might not be.  Often tests are done at a petstore and they say that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've been guillty of that, but I always try to catch myself.  You should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            be given a reading for each test.  How big are they and what size tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Might be they are feeling crowded and are releasing hormones to slow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            their growth, but these hormones are very harmful.  How often do you do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            water changes?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3023 From: Patrick Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Snailacides, that would kill the snails! :)  I really don't mind the snails.  They are great for cleaning up the bottom of my fry box.  Crushing them once a week seems to keep them down enough for me.  I also have an apple snail, just one, and it had to be moved because over night it pretty much decimated my plants!  If I did have more, there are plenty of apple snail recipes on the web. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3024 From: Sarah Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: How to tell if a fish is pregnant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It is easier to tell with for example guppies as you can see the gravid spot apearing. You can't see this in a platy, but if it is a light coloured platy you will a dark spot at the back of the abdomen. But chances are if you have males and females together the females will be pregnant.  Depending on water they are usually pregnant for around 28 - 31 days.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: 07/01/04 21:24:19
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] How to tell if a fish is pregnant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How do you tell if a Platy is pregnant and how long should it take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to have babies if she is?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3025 From: Richard Emmanuel M. Carasig Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: riccia flutans
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi! i'm from the philippines and i'm wondering if there's someone in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              this group from the philippines too who could tell me where i could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              get riccia and glosso...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3026 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: How to tell if a fish is pregnant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/1/2004 4:25:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, muskie4817@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How do you tell if a Platy is pregnant and how long should it take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to have babies if she is?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Platies will breed about once a month or so. I found these pictures of a pregnant platy. Their bellies get REALLY big, and if they are lightly colored you might be able to see a dark "gravid spot" on their abdomen. This is what I've read at least. I'm still getting the hang of telling when my livebearers are pregnant, and when they're just constipated. LOL I usually catch the babies after they've been born, which is the only thing I use the "breeder box" for ... holding the babies and keeping them from being harassed by the bigger fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://uk.f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/andrew_mitchell13/album?.dir=/93e3 is the link to the pics.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://fish.orbust.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40443 shows pictures of various female livebearers, and pregnant livebearers. (mollies, swordtails, and platys)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3027 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey everybody, I just wanted to say that today i am now the proud
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              owner of 11 ghost shrimp. I went to the store and they had alot, so i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bought 10 but instead i got 11. i have 4 of them that have eggs in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              them. hopefully more are females and they will i guess i could say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              lay eggs. so now i currently have 14 ghost shrimp in all. now i don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              have to look to hard when i look in my tank to see atleast some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              shrimp.lol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3028 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Clown Loach HELP!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sarah & Tony, Would just like to ad that besides their clown-like coloration, these loaches are know to "clown" around in their behavior. Its quite natural for them to lye around, sometimes on their sides or on their backs on the bottom of the tank, looking for all intents and purposes DEAD; so please be aware of this. If, however, the breathing rate is elevated as you say, compared to the other loaches, it may be due to some internal parasite, ruling out that the tank isn't crowded or the temperature is above normal for them; which may cause partial oxygen starvation. The fact that its eating is a good sign; but is the coloration faded? If so, you may want to feed them a medicated food for a while, if you still feel there's something wrong with your loach, preferably freshly home-made, using such medications as Kanamycin, among other things. This is done by making a paste with your flake food and adding the medication, then rolling it out very thin again to dry, and breaking into flake again. Such medicated foods are available at your lfs, but may be too old to be effective. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3029 From: questnjurny Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Introduction and a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Afternoon everyone!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am new to the group and am looking forward to learning more about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              keeping aquariums. I had a few tanks years ago when I was young and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              lost interest and packed them all away. Well I decided it was time to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              unpack everything and get the two big aquariums (33 gal and 27 gal) up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and going again. In the 33 I have one Oscar, about 6 inches, and in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the 27 I have 11 comets for now until the tank is cycled. Eventually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I hope to get a nice community tank going in there. The comets will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              be off to a new home at my cousin's house, they would go in the pond,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but apparently breeding conditions are perfect in there and there is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              no more room! I also have a 600gallon pond with 21 small fish; 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              comets, 11 goldfish and 5 koi and many babies. The comets are in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              their second year, so I am guessing they are the ones breeding, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the goldfish and koi we just got this year. As well there are a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              furry creatures here, 3 Australian shepherds, one Vizsla and 5 cats.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My main interest lies with the dogs and I show and do agility with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              two youngest Aussies. Me and the fishies and furballs are in BC, Canada.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My question is about my Oscar. I have had him for about three weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              now, and when I got him the aquarium was through its cycles, thanks to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the goldfish who are now in the pond. But within about 5 days my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrite levels came up to 0.25 ppm. They are now at 0.5ppm (since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              yesterday) and I am getting a little worried. I do weekly water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              changes, about 25-30% of the water, should I be doing more until this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              gets through the cycle? He is starting to settle into his tank more,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and has stopped ripping up the plants, but I do think his appetite may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              be slightly decreased, either that or I am giving him too much food.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              He gets krill and bloodworms, at the fish stores suggestion, but I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              also trying him on beef heart as he seems to be turning his nose up at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the krill. He would be happy if I just gave him bloodworms all the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              time, but I was told this is more of a treat food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone have any ideas on what I can do differently to get those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              nitrites down? Oh as well, when I got him, they wanted me to add
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Cycle" to his water with each water change, which is supposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              lower ammonia and nitrite levels. should I keep doing this, or stop?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks so much!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              questnjurny@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3030 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks for that i was wondering.. but now i am scared if i saw 2 of them and only 2 about a month ago will i see more i dont see any now... but does that matter... i am worried.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3031 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: patrick snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              so did you have the snails by accident or on purpose.. do you not mind them or do you not know a way to keep them ou tof your tank....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              suspect that the particular species we have in Tennessee and maybe other areas (or it might not have anything to do with location at all) are not the same species that cause so much trouble.  I checked pictures of ramshorn snails last night and noticed that there is more than one species with that name.  I have somewhere in the 100-200 range of them in my 29 gallon, but I can easily keep them under control.  I have a paradise gourami in there that probably eats some of the smaller ones.  Sometimes I crush their shells and let the cories eat on them (which is most likely safe because I doubt they can carry parasites that are harmful to fish).  Then again, one day I might wake up and not be able to see the fish through the layer of snails on the glass. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3032 From: Patrick Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: patrick snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    They came with plants.  I picked some off of the plants just to look at them, then cleaned the plants with salt water.  No ramshorn snails entered my main tank at that time, but I did have trumpet snails.  I kept some of those ramshorn snails and put them in my little 1 gallon tank just to see them.  I thought very long and hard before sending in about half a dozen into my 29 gallon.  Since then I have decided that it was a good idea.  I do like them.  I have previously stated that they don't cause harm in my tank, but do help out a little.  And I do keep them under control by removing them and crushing them for the corries to eat.  If I ever had a huge outbreak, I know how to remove them and would have them back to lower numbers quickly, in theory.  I hope I never have to test that theory. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                so did you have the snails by accident or on purpose.. do you not mind them or do you not know a way to keep them ou tof your tank....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3033 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Congrats Miss Jessica,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                May I add some experience with these critters...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The females do get eggs , under their tail a good cluster of greenish orbs about 0.8 - 1 mm in size . Because of their size they get pulled up into the filter so if you can try and put the egg carrying females in a low flow area or tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If they do hatch out you'll have many, many young'ns. Good luck, hope you have a good turn out,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:48 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ghost shrimp

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hey everybody, I just wanted to say that today i am now the proud
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                owner of 11 ghost shrimp. I went to the store and they had alot, so i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bought 10 but instead i got 11. i have 4 of them that have eggs in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                them. hopefully more are females and they will i guess i could say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                lay eggs. so now i currently have 14 ghost shrimp in all. now i don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have to look to hard when i look in my tank to see atleast some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                shrimp.lol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                jessica





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3034 From: captaininsane357 Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ghost shrimp - Part II
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I also just snagged a bunch of ghost shrimps, and I got them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                for free ! Was down in some pond areas right off the Illinois
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                river here near Peoria looking to net some tiny sunfish and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                baby catfish and whatever I could snag, and lo and behold, I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                finding these 1/2 to 1 inch long clear shrimps !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Also snagged 2 small longnosed gars ! (2-3 inches long)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Think they are longnosed gars anyways. Very cool. Guess this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                river is making something of a comeback.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Check the 'native' folder at this link for some pics of them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.gmadhosting.com/fishpics/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Pics of my other fish are there also.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Scott

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Congrats Miss Jessica,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > May I add some experience with these critters...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > The females do get eggs , under their tail a good cluster of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                greenish orbs about 0.8 - 1 mm in size . Because of their size they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                get pulled up into the filter so if you can try and put the egg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                carrying females in a low flow area or tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > If they do hatch out you'll have many, many young'ns. Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                hope you have a good turn out,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > mbethke@s...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: jess_babs_07
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:48 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hey everybody, I just wanted to say that today i am now the proud
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > owner of 11 ghost shrimp. I went to the store and they had alot,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                so i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > bought 10 but instead i got 11. i have 4 of them that have eggs in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > them. hopefully more are females and they will i guess i could say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > lay eggs. so now i currently have 14 ghost shrimp in all. now i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have to look to hard when i look in my tank to see atleast some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > shrimp.lol.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3035 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the way it is descrtibed, it sounds like hook worm---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > H'lo,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I've never been sure about identifying the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > worms that appeared after the introduction of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > little-black-snails. One behaviour I observbed on a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > (my) female-Betta was;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ...............the worm had attached evidently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > its posterior end on the surface of the fish, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > appeared to be insistantly trying to pry its way
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > under a scale. That worm resembled the other worms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > in the tank, the description of worms in this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > thread, and if that's a behaviour of planaria, I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > be edified. I think, since so many small worms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > resemble one another, and a Gourami on this thread
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > died after the introduction of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > snails-brought-in-with-plants, which coincided with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the appearance of worms, there's a possibility the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > worms are'nt planaria. An autopsy on the Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > could find the cause of death, or not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Those are planaria, completely harmless, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > usually appear in good established tanks when there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > has been some overfeeding going on. Depending on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish in your tank, skipping one day of feeding and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > light vacuuming of the gravel should get rid of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > them. In a way they are a complement, they will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > appear in poor water conditions. If you can't skip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > feeding, cut them back in quantity of food and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > vacuum. I have gotten them a couple of times and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > followed these directions which I got from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > www.applesnails.net and they have always been gone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > in 24 hours.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Terri Bryant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Over The Rainbow Snails.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Over The Rainbow Snails - Aquabid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Over The Rainbow Snails - Ebay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: renee31477 [mailto:renee31477@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > short, threadlike, completely white...they swim like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > caterpillers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > walk...only they do it vertically , if that makes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > sense...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "bryants4god"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Are the worms short and thread like? Completely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > white or red on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > end?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > They could be planaria or tubiflex which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > harmless (IMHO). I may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > missed the post but if you could give a more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > detailed description.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3036 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Introduction and a question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                you should not be changing water until after the cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                has been completed, and then large changes only if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are going to do them consistantly and more often then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                every month. other wise you can stick with small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                frequent changes--- questnjurny <questnjurny@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Afternoon everyone!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I am new to the group and am looking forward to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > learning more about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > keeping aquariums. I had a few tanks years ago when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I was young and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > lost interest and packed them all away. Well I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > decided it was time to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > unpack everything and get the two big aquariums (33
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gal and 27 gal) up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and going again. In the 33 I have one Oscar, about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 6 inches, and in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the 27 I have 11 comets for now until the tank is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > cycled. Eventually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I hope to get a nice community tank going in there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > The comets will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > be off to a new home at my cousin's house, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > would go in the pond,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > but apparently breeding conditions are perfect in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > there and there is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > no more room! I also have a 600gallon pond with 21
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > small fish; 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > comets, 11 goldfish and 5 koi and many babies. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > comets are in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > their second year, so I am guessing they are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ones breeding, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the goldfish and koi we just got this year. As well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > there are a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > furry creatures here, 3 Australian shepherds, one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Vizsla and 5 cats.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > My main interest lies with the dogs and I show and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > do agility with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > two youngest Aussies. Me and the fishies and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > furballs are in BC, Canada.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > My question is about my Oscar. I have had him for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > about three weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > now, and when I got him the aquarium was through its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > cycles, thanks to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the goldfish who are now in the pond. But within
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > about 5 days my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > nitrite levels came up to 0.25 ppm. They are now at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 0.5ppm (since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > yesterday) and I am getting a little worried. I do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > weekly water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > changes, about 25-30% of the water, should I be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > doing more until this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gets through the cycle? He is starting to settle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > into his tank more,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and has stopped ripping up the plants, but I do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > think his appetite may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > be slightly decreased, either that or I am giving
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > him too much food.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > He gets krill and bloodworms, at the fish stores
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > suggestion, but I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > also trying him on beef heart as he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > turning his nose up at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the krill. He would be happy if I just gave him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > bloodworms all the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > time, but I was told this is more of a treat food.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Anyone have any ideas on what I can do differently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to get those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > nitrites down? Oh as well, when I got him, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > wanted me to add
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "Cycle" to his water with each water change, which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > is supposed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > lower ammonia and nitrite levels. should I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > doing this, or stop?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks so much!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > questnjurny@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3037 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                my ramshorns do not have trap doors, and they love to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                eat all plants except for banana plant inmy tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                p.s. there is plenty of food available--- bryants4god
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                <bryants4god@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > There is a common ramshorn (planorbis) and there is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > an apple snail ramshorn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > which has a trap door and are commonly called giant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ramshorn snails, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > are really Marisa cornuarietis These are the kind
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > that will eat almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > anything they come across including live plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > The common ramshorn doesn't have a trap door and as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > a general rule doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > prefer live plants when other food sources are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > available.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > If you don't want to look for the trap door you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > also tell by their eggs,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > common ramshorns lay flat patches of eggs the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > kinds lays theirs in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > globby masses.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Terri Bryant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Over The Rainbow Snails.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Over The Rainbow Snails - Aquabid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Over The Rainbow Snails - Ebay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: Patrick [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I suspect that the particular species we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have in Tennessee and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > maybe other areas (or it might not have anything to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > do with location at all)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > are not the same species that cause so much trouble.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I checked pictures of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ramshorn snails last night and noticed that there is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > more than one species
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > with that name. I have somewhere in the 100-200
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > range of them in my 29
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gallon, but I can easily keep them under control. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have a paradise gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > in there that probably eats some of the smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ones. Sometimes I crush
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > their shells and let the cories eat on them (which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > is most likely safe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > because I doubt they can carry parasites that are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > harmful to fish). Then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > again, one day I might wake up and not be able to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > see the fish through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > layer of snails on the glass. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > i was given
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > notice by the state that i could no longer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > sell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ramshorn snails. to those who think they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > great.....are you nuts?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3038 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bucks...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are you in the chicago area?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > When I finally, wew, get through my messages and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > find the plants group,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > go to the archives, there was a lot of diiscussion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > about cichlids and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > plants. If you repost this question, some folks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > there will get a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > snarky. So you just might as well go to archives
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > first.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3039 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: opossum death card
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i believe that is correct. i know in ca, they have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                even started phasing out lead fishing weights, and are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                changing them all to brass

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > That's good to know Paul. I don't carry them at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > store anymore, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the catalogs still refer to them as lead weights.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Might this just be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > lingering "name" because that's how they've always
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > been sold?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3040 From: paul helms Date: 7/1/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i disagree with you unless you are talking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                chinese algae eaters. once algae eaters have become
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                accustomed to being fed sinking pellets, or gorw large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                they do stop eating algae, but the small ones are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                excellent at cleaning up the tank of algae



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Algae eaters don't do what their name says , buty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > will harrass and attack fish. They are not worth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > keeping as they don;t ever touch algae unless there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > is nother else to ea . mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: agentscullyeyore@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 3:26 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > my algea eater is about 8 inc hes and i have a 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gallon.. and he tears up my plants too .. he is just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > so full of energy that he pushes them over and all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > around sometime si get up and have plants floating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > for that reason lol.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3041 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 6/30/2004 9:41:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, setokaibarules2002@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                We are going to put them in a 100 gallon long reptial tank. I hope
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that'll be big enough, if not I know where I can get bigger. I thank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                everyone for the info, now I know what I'm getting into.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thank you all, Danielle and Dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Get a titanium heater.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I had one pacu and he broke two glass heaters before I bought a titanium one.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3042 From: Matt Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Molly on the floor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi guys and gals!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a molly just sitting on the bottom of the tank doing nothing but it seems to be gulping though it's mouth isn't open much.  It was fine this morning.  Everythign else seems ok.  The othetr fish are active and eating well.  Any ideas???????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Matt.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Without Love We All Perish."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3043 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Danielle, On that reptilian tank, I would recommend that you use a test fish first, before introducing any fish that you value. The results, as to whether the test fish lives or not, should be obvious within several hours, but give it a day to make sure. It is not recommended to use a tank for fish that was once used for reptiles or mammals. Apparently, their urine penetrates the silicone sealant of the tank in the dry situation (no water) that its used in. Then, when filling and using the tank for fish, that urine continually leaches back out, killing the fish. no amount of washing before using it for fish seems to render the tank harmless in most cases, so test first just to make sure. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3044 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ghost shrimp - Part II
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I looked at your natives pictures, very cool. I mostly keep natives
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                with one tropical tank. I believe the fish you are calling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                pumpkinseeds are orangespotted sunfish, they dont normally get much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bigger than about 3 inches. Pumpkinseeds have a red bar on the back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of their "ear tabs" much like redear sunfish do. Your mystery fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                is some kind of darter, possibly a rainbow or orangethroat. There is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a couple of groups that deal with keeping native fish NANFA and NFC.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                NFC has a great yahoo group you should join (if you havent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                already).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                NFC = Native Fish Conservancy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                NANFA = North American Native Fish Association

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Dattilo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "captaininsane357"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                <captaininsane357@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I also just snagged a bunch of ghost shrimps, and I got them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > for free ! Was down in some pond areas right off the Illinois
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > river here near Peoria looking to net some tiny sunfish and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > baby catfish and whatever I could snag, and lo and behold, I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > finding these 1/2 to 1 inch long clear shrimps !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Also snagged 2 small longnosed gars ! (2-3 inches long)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Think they are longnosed gars anyways. Very cool. Guess this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > river is making something of a comeback.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Check the 'native' folder at this link for some pics of them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://www.gmadhosting.com/fishpics/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Pics of my other fish are there also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Scott
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Congrats Miss Jessica,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > May I add some experience with these critters...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > The females do get eggs , under their tail a good cluster of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > greenish orbs about 0.8 - 1 mm in size . Because of their size they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > get pulled up into the filter so if you can try and put the egg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > carrying females in a low flow area or tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > If they do hatch out you'll have many, many young'ns. Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > hope you have a good turn out,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > 8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > 91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > mbethke@s...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > From: jess_babs_07
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:48 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Hey everybody, I just wanted to say that today i am now the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                proud
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > owner of 11 ghost shrimp. I went to the store and they had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                alot,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > so i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > bought 10 but instead i got 11. i have 4 of them that have eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > them. hopefully more are females and they will i guess i could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > lay eggs. so now i currently have 14 ghost shrimp in all. now i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > have to look to hard when i look in my tank to see atleast some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > shrimp.lol.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3045 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Molly on the floor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 7/2/2004 4:53:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mrwb@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a molly just sitting on the bottom of the tank doing nothing but it seems to be gulping though it's mouth isn't open much.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sounds like it's dying, but I'm not sure why from your description. Any other visible symptoms?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3046 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you like having those ramshorns in your tank and would like them to stay off your plants you might want to try floating a piece of lettuce for them. I have 4 varieties of plant in my tank and they don't bother them, they do like the lettuce I put in though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                my ramshorns do not have trap doors, and they love to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                eat all plants except for banana plant inmy tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                p.s. there is plenty of food available--- bryants4god
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3047 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This has been my experience with those type of snails (ramshorns and pest snails both)  If you have seen 2 you will find tons more eventually.  I am having an out break of pest snails right now in one of my 40 gal tanks.  I was only seeing 1 or 2 at a time and those I was crushing and leaving in for my apple snails to eat.  It seems like overnight I came in to find hundreds :-(   I have been crushing them, I also removed all decorations and wipe the eggs off.  If you just look into my tank right now you wont see any but when I start to vacuum I see tons of them.  I don't think they are harming my tank, but they do annoy me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                One harmless way of catching them is to place a piece of cucumber under a small inverted plate, I use unglazed terra cotta flower pot bottoms, in the morning lift the plate and there should be snails on the cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks for that i was wondering.. but now i am scared if i saw 2 of them and only 2 about a month ago will i see more i dont see any now... but does that matter... i am worried.. shannon 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3048 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Two Questions...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I agree with Erin. My 29g is stocked with platies, german rams, an angel, and loaches. The only tail/fin nipping going on in the tank is between the rams, which is a harmless territorial thing since I ended up with 4 males. Plant shredders? Not my platies, the loaches are 100% guilty of that. Mean? I don't agree with that either. I've had my platies the longest, they cycled my tank. They've lived with the above fish as well as kribs, guppies, cories, dwarf and blue gourami, bettas. My platies hang out together, play in the bubble wall together...they're the most excited fish I have at feeding time and will accept being hand fed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sometimes I think generalization comments like these come from people having a bad experience with 1 or 2 fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Blanket statement ... unfair assumption.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 6/30/2004 1:18:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                it's the swordtail, Them , mollies and platys are all tail/fin nippers, abusers, plant shedders and all around mean fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3049 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: How to tell if a fish is pregnant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for sharing these links, very interesting pics.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Theresa 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://uk.f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/andrew_mitchell13/album?.dir=/93e3 is the link to the pics.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://fish.orbust.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40443 shows pictures of various female livebearers, and pregnant livebearers. (mollies, swordtails, and platys)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3050 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Water Changes During the First Cycle (WAS: Introduction and a q
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > you should not be changing water until after the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > has been completed, and then large changes only if

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hmm... When I was starting my Eclipse aquarium I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                found this article at the Marineland website that says
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                you should do frequent changes during the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Because of it I ended up doing small changes every two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to three days during my first cycle. I will say that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                this guy uses a lot more fish to cycle with than I've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                seen others recommend though (five fish per ten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gallons) Also I guess it wouldn't apply either if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                doing a fishless cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.marineland.com/articles/1firstthirty.asp

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3051 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I wanted a snail in my son's little Eclipse Three
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (he's one year old and gets a kick out of watching the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                snail scoot along.) However, I did not want a snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                problem so I simply added only one snail. It's a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ramshorn (or at least it looks like one.) It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tiny, about an eighth of an inch in diameter, when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                got it (a LFS just gave it to me) and now its probably
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                close to a 1/2 inch in diameter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I would like to add a couple of more snails but don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                want a snail problem. I would like to add an Apple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Snail and maybe one with a conical shaped shell (I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have no idea of the common names for conicals). My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                questions are:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1) Can these speicies interbreed? The whole reason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of getting just one of each is to keep them from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                breeding.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2) Could they breed without a mate?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3) Would the Apple Snail likely eat the other snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've read somewhere that Apple Snails eat Ramshorns.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                4) Any other potential pitfalls that I might not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thinking of?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3052 From: paul helms Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                they can breed independently, so it does not really
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                matter,i have never seen them eat each other, but they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                may eat the eggs of another species


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- Todd Fields <jtfields91@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I wanted a snail in my son's little Eclipse Three
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > (he's one year old and gets a kick out of watching
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > snail scoot along.) However, I did not want a snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > problem so I simply added only one snail. It's a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ramshorn (or at least it looks like one.) It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tiny, about an eighth of an inch in diameter, when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > got it (a LFS just gave it to me) and now its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > probably
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > close to a 1/2 inch in diameter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I would like to add a couple of more snails but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > want a snail problem. I would like to add an Apple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Snail and maybe one with a conical shaped shell (I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have no idea of the common names for conicals). My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > questions are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 1) Can these speicies interbreed? The whole reason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > of getting just one of each is to keep them from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > breeding.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 2) Could they breed without a mate?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 3) Would the Apple Snail likely eat the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I've read somewhere that Apple Snails eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ramshorns.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 4) Any other potential pitfalls that I might not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > thinking of?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3053 From: paul helms Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Water Changes During the First Cycle (WAS: Introduction and a q
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                correct, i am talking mainly about a fishless cycle,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                because using to many fish to cycle will siply pollute
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and the changes may be necessary


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- Todd Fields <jtfields91@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > you should not be changing water until after the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > has been completed, and then large changes only if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hmm... When I was starting my Eclipse aquarium I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > found this article at the Marineland website that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > says
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > you should do frequent changes during the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Because of it I ended up doing small changes every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to three days during my first cycle. I will say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > this guy uses a lot more fish to cycle with than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > seen others recommend though (five fish per ten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gallons) Also I guess it wouldn't apply either if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > doing a fishless cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://www.marineland.com/articles/1firstthirty.asp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3054 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > they can breed independently, so it does not really

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What does this mean? That they do not need a male and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                female to reproduce? I'm pretty sure that is not the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                case with Apple Snails, at least according to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Applesnails.net, it states there that a male and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                female are required to reproduce. I wasn't sure about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the Ramshorns or conicals though, although my lone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ramshorn has never reproduced.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3055 From: Patrick Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I kept one ramshorn by itself once and it died alone.  I don't think they can divide themselves.  I also think I heard of a giant ramshorn that gets bigger than a half inch.  The ones I have only get to about 1/4 to 1/5 inch diameter.  I have 1 apple snail that has never divided itself, and I don't think they can.  The conical snails sound like trumpet snails.  I have never heard anything bad about them.  They stir up gravel and clean filter pads, but I've never had a problem with mine.  I am not sure if they can divide themselves or not.  If you do get too many apple snails, there are plenty of recipes for them. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wanted a snail in my son's little Eclipse Three
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (he's one year old and gets a kick out of watching the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  snail scoot along.)  However, I did not want a snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  problem so I simply added only one snail.  It's a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ramshorn (or at least it looks like one.)  It was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tiny, about an eighth of an inch in diameter, when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  got it (a LFS just gave it to me) and now its probably
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  close to a 1/2 inch in diameter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I would like to add a couple of more snails but don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  want a snail problem.  I would like to add an Apple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Snail and maybe one with a conical shaped shell (I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have no idea of the common names for conicals).  My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  questions are:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1)  Can these speicies interbreed?  The whole reason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of getting just one of each is to keep them from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  breeding.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2)  Could they breed without a mate?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3)  Would the Apple Snail likely eat the other snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've read somewhere that Apple Snails eat Ramshorns.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4)  Any other potential pitfalls that I might not be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  thinking of?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3056 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That's not entirely accurate.  There is no specific male or female with planorbis ramshorns but the must have 2 to reproduce.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 12:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they can breed independently, so it does not really
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  matter,i have never seen them eat each other, but they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  may eat the eggs of another species



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3057 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They can not interbreed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If the apple snail is over 1" long at time of purchase and is a female she can still lay eggs if she has been bred at the pet store.  They can store sperm up to 6 months.  To avoid this buy a baby.  Do not try to have 2 buy purchasing the same sex, one will change eventually so they can breed.  I do not know if this is true of trumpet snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have apples and rams in the same tanks and they do not bother each other. If you crush and kill a rams or pest snail and leave it in the tank the apple will eat it.  The largest planorbis ram I have is the size of a nickel.  The apple rams get much larger.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Todd Fields [mailto:jtfields91@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 12:10 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wanted a snail in my son's little Eclipse Three
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (he's one year old and gets a kick out of watching the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  snail scoot along.)  However, I did not want a snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  problem so I simply added only one snail.  It's a


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3058 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Scott
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hey, Scott, I was raised in Peoria. Went to Richwoods HS a couple of years. I once took an accidental dip into the Illinois River (1972 or 1973 - as a young teenager, some of my friends talked me into going out in a small boat they found, of course with no safety equipment, and it had a hole in it). I don't swim and was lucky to make it back to shore, which I did by refusing to listen to them when they said to jump, and hanging onto the capsized boat and kicking back to shore. But I smelled like that nasty river for longer than I wanted to! I am glad it is harboring something besides dead fish these days.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Audrey (Brown) Archer

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message: 11
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 04:58:20 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: "captaininsane357" <captaininsane357@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: ghost shrimp - Part II

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I also just snagged a bunch of ghost shrimps, and I got them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for free ! Was down in some pond areas right off the Illinois
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  river here near Peoria looking to net some tiny sunfish and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  baby catfish and whatever I could snag, and lo and behold, I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  finding these 1/2 to 1 inch long clear shrimps !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Also snagged 2 small longnosed gars ! (2-3 inches long)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Think they are longnosed gars anyways. Very cool. Guess this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  river is making something of a comeback.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Check the 'native' folder at this link for some pics of them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.gmadhosting.com/fishpics/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Pics of my other fish are there also.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Scott
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3059 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Apple snails and trumpet snails are totally different species and creatures, apple snails (sorry , aint get'n the big book out for these mollusks) are HERBIVORES, trumpet snails are omnivores but given the opportunity they prefer meat and do a fine job of eating waste and concentrating it for the plants to absorb, you know , come to think of it , I have NEVER seen a trumpet snail eat a plant...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They can not interbreed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If the apple snail is over 1" long at time of purchase and is a female she can still lay eggs if she has been bred at the pet store.  They can store sperm up to 6 months.  To avoid this buy a baby.  Do not try to have 2 buy purchasing the same sex, one will change eventually so they can breed.  I do not know if this is true of trumpet snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have apples and rams in the same tanks and they do not bother each other. If you crush and kill a rams or pest snail and leave it in the tank the apple will eat it.  The largest planorbis ram I have is the size of a nickel.  The apple rams get much larger.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Todd Fields [mailto:jtfields91@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 12:10 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wanted a snail in my son's little Eclipse Three
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (he's one year old and gets a kick out of watching the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  snail scoot along.)  However, I did not want a snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  problem so I simply added only one snail.  It's a


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3060 From: Donna Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Introduction
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi. My boyfriend and I bought a 260 gallon tank and set it up in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mobile home. Yikes!!!! I thought it would be too heavy. It's been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  up and running for two years now. Thank goodness it hasn't caved in.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We have African Cichlids in it. We bought all sorts of different
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ones and now have babies that are mixed breds

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We had to tear down the tank once and so we bought a 70 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to transfer the fish in. Now we have an Asian Redtail Cat and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  African Redtail cat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm kind of new to this so I'm anxious to learn lots.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Donna
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3061 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Introduction
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Donna,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Greetings. Wow! I'd love to see a picture of this set up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Gary

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: "Donna" <donnamen222@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 3:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Introduction


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Hi. My boyfriend and I bought a 260 gallon tank and set it up in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > mobile home. Yikes!!!! I thought it would be too heavy. It's been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > up and running for two years now. Thank goodness it hasn't caved in.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > We have African Cichlids in it. We bought all sorts of different
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ones and now have babies that are mixed breds
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > We had to tear down the tank once and so we bought a 70 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to transfer the fish in. Now we have an Asian Redtail Cat and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > African Redtail cat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I'm kind of new to this so I'm anxious to learn lots.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Donna
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3062 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: they are stalking me was....snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And my worries continue as of this am i woke up to a bigger snail.... so this makes it 3 i think they're stalking me... i have 3 cory catfish but i dont think they would eat tthem i also have a grourami someone i thought said they eat them... amybe that is why i am not seeing so many.. who knows... i put them in the sink maybe i should be crushing them and feeding them to the cory's any thoughts... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3063 From: Tri mac Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Great Group!!! Come visit mine!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Aquariumnevada/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cichlidnevada/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I posted a pic in photot section in Nick's folder. My 240 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3064 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: they are stalking me was....snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           If you're in doubt about the nature of the snails, remember someone in the snail-thread lost a Gourami after finding snails and worms with new plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And my worries continue as of this am i woke up to a bigger snail.... so this makes it 3 i think they're stalking me... i have 3 cory catfish but i dont think they would eat tthem i also have a grourami someone i thought said they eat them... amybe that is why i am not seeing so many.. who knows... i put them in the sink maybe i should be crushing them and feeding them to the cory's any thoughts... shannon





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3065 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: homepage photo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What are thos little plants sticking up through the sand at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bottom of the bowl? I love them!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3066 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  thanks this isnt looking good for me... i am so mad thoguht cuase i was so careful... i have never seen any when i vacumn i did that just a week ago but maybe they are just starting.. i am so anal rentative i will get every last one out of there yea right i guess they arent harmful right... hrm shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This has been my experience with those type of snails (ramshorns and pest snails both)  If you have seen 2 you will find tons more eventually.  I am having an out break of pest snails right now in one of my 40 gal tanks.  I was only seeing 1 or 2 at a time and those I was crushing and leaving in for my apple snails to eat.  It seems like overnight I came in to find hundreds :-(   I have been crushing them, I also removed all decorations and wipe the eggs off.  If you just look into my tank right now you wont see any but when I start to vacuum I see tons of them.  I don't think they are harming my tank, but they do annoy me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  One harmless way of catching them is to place a piece of cucumber under a small inverted plate, I use unglazed terra cotta flower pot bottoms, in the morning lift the plate and there should be snails on the cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3067 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: homepage photo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Looked like sea grass, turle grass??? you did say it was a salt nano didn't you??mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:58 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] homepage photo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What are thos little plants sticking up through the sand at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bottom of the bowl?  I love them!



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3068 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If your fish live in a PH below 7, there's a chance the snails will eventually die-off. I don't know how low the PH should be, but Since I eventually neglected to do aquarium maintainance at times when I had nuisance snails, I discovered my PH dropped below 7, and my Corys did'nt seem to be suffering. The snails disappeared in acidic PH and I'd read the snails can't form their shells in some degree of acid range, but I don't know what it is. I was using a Nessler reagent, and the color in the test vial was yellow, maybe someone on the list can tell you what that is. My health has'nt been up to par, and that's the reason I've given myself for doing less than weekly water changes, and I just gave away my last 75 gallon tank and fish. Not overfeeding can diminish the presence of worms, be they benign or parasitic, unless they depend on fish or whatever for survival.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     I kept a couple tanks for plant prunings, and Java moss and fern that outgrew the main tank, in case I needed them, and a couple of those snails ended-up in one of those tanks. Turned out those little tanks went alkaline, and though I never fed those snails, for a couple years or so, they could be seen munching away, mostly on the inner tank surface. They never proliferated in that tank for some reason, and I never saw the worms that I associated with them, in that tank. They were the only two snails that survived the acidification of my 75 gallon tank. After a couple years, and a water change, I decided to see what would happen if I fed the snails brine-shrimp-pellets. The snail that survived a previous water change, ate some of the pellets and went into a state as if he/she was undergoing an unpleasant physical change, with what seemed to be copious fecal-casts, and the snail stopped ruminating, but did'nt appear to be dead. At this point I don't know if the snail is alive or not, but besides the lack of motion, there seems to be no decomposition.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  thanks this isnt looking good for me... i am so mad thoguht cuase i was so careful... i have never seen any when i vacumn i did that just a week ago but maybe they are just starting.. i am so anal rentative i will get every last one out of there yea right i guess they arent harmful right... hrm shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This has been my experience with those type of snails (ramshorns and pest snails both) If you have seen 2 you will find tons more eventually. I am having an out break of pest snails right now in one of my 40 gal tanks. I was only seeing 1 or 2 at a time and those I was crushing and leaving in for my apple snails to eat. It seems like overnight I came in to find hundreds :-( I have been crushing them, I also removed all decorations and wipe the eggs off. If you just look into my tank right now you wont see any but when I start to vacuum I see tons of them. I don't think they are harming my tank, but they do annoy me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  One harmless way of catching them is to place a piece of cucumber under a small inverted plate, I use unglazed terra cotta flower pot bottoms, in the morning lift the plate and there should be snails on the cucumber.






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3069 From: Angela Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hiya,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  whenever I find a pond snail in my aquarium, I send in my 8 4 inch
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  clown loaches.. They take care of them!! So, I just dont worry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  about them in the tanks!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LOL

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ang



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > thanks this isnt looking good for me... i am so mad thoguht cuase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i was so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > careful... i have never seen any when i vacumn i did that just a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  week ago but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > maybe they are just starting.. i am so anal rentative i will get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  every last one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > out of there yea right i guess they arent harmful right... hrm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > This has been my experience with those type of snails (ramshorns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and pest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > snails both) If you have seen 2 you will find tons more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  eventually. I am having
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > an out break of pest snails right now in one of my 40 gal tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I was only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > seeing 1 or 2 at a time and those I was crushing and leaving in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for my apple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > snails to eat. It seems like overnight I came in to find
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hundreds :-( I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > been crushing them, I also removed all decorations and wipe the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  eggs off. If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > you just look into my tank right now you wont see any but when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  start to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > vacuum I see tons of them. I don't think they are harming my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tank, but they do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > annoy me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > One harmless way of catching them is to place a piece of cucumber
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  under a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > small inverted plate, I use unglazed terra cotta flower pot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bottoms, in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > morning lift the plate and there should be snails on the cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3070 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Anyone know about catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i have 10 fresh water catfish. they are under a inch big, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  came from a creek, we thought they where tadpoles till we put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  clear water. they seem to love fish food and are so cute i am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  posting a picture under melanie's pics. any info anyone can share
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  would be appreciated thanks. Melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3071 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yea, aren't they great, I don't know why people are so freaked out about clown loaches, they are pretty harmless. I've only seen them get aggressive once and that was because a male paradise was harassing it , the whole gang (4) jumped him and chased him for about 5 minutes, he stayed at the top in a corner for about an hour gasping, didn't bother the clowns again. See bullies don't always win...Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Angela
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:04 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hiya,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  whenever I find a pond snail in my aquarium, I send in my 8 4 inch
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  clown loaches.. They take care of them!!  So, I just dont worry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  about them in the tanks!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  LOL

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ang



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > thanks this isnt looking good for me... i am so mad thoguht cuase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i was so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > careful... i have never seen any when i vacumn i did that just a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  week ago but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > maybe they are just starting.. i am so anal rentative i will get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  every last one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > out of there yea right i guess they arent harmful right... hrm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > This has been my experience with those type of snails (ramshorns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and pest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > snails both)  If you have seen 2 you will find tons more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  eventually.  I am having
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > an out break of pest snails right now in one of my 40 gal tanks. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I was only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > seeing 1 or 2 at a time and those I was crushing and leaving in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for my apple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > snails to eat.  It seems like overnight I came in to find
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hundreds :-(   I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > been crushing them, I also removed all decorations and wipe the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  eggs off.  If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > you just look into my tank right now you wont see any but when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  start to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > vacuum I see tons of them.  I don't think they are harming my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tank, but they do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > annoy me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > One harmless way of catching them is to place a piece of cucumber
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  under a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > small inverted plate, I use unglazed terra cotta flower pot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bottoms, in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > morning lift the plate and there should be snails on the cucumber.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3072 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sorry for asking but why don't you drop in the team of clown loaches like we've been yaking about, swear they will knock off the snails faster then you think. They really like their "S-Car-Go"   .. MJB
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:59 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  thanks this isnt looking good for me... i am so mad thoguht cuase i was so careful... i have never seen any when i vacumn i did that just a week ago but maybe they are just starting.. i am so anal rentative i will get every last one out of there yea right i guess they arent harmful right... hrm shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This has been my experience with those type of snails (ramshorns and pest snails both)  If you have seen 2 you will find tons more eventually.  I am having an out break of pest snails right now in one of my 40 gal tanks.  I was only seeing 1 or 2 at a time and those I was crushing and leaving in for my apple snails to eat.  It seems like overnight I came in to find hundreds :-(   I have been crushing them, I also removed all decorations and wipe the eggs off.  If you just look into my tank right now you wont see any but when I start to vacuum I see tons of them.  I don't think they are harming my tank, but they do annoy me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  One harmless way of catching them is to place a piece of cucumber under a small inverted plate, I use unglazed terra cotta flower pot bottoms, in the morning lift the plate and there should be snails on the cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3073 From: bryants4god Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Snails need a PH of 8 to 8.2 for the best shell development.  Pest snails are hard to get rid of by poor water conditions but common ramshorn are easily killed by water conditions.  If fact some people keep them in their tanks because they show sign of distress quickly.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  MJP --  As for the clown loaches, the problem hasn't been bad enough (yet) for me to purchase and care for fish that I don't want.  But I will keep that advice in mind if it comes to that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 8:27 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If your fish live in a PH below 7, there's a chance the snails will eventually die-off. I don't know how low the PH should be, but Since I eventually neglected to do aquarium maintainance at times when I had nuisance snails, I discovered my PH dropped below 7, and my Corys did'nt seem to be suffering. The snails disappeared in acidic PH and I'd read the snails can't form their shells in some degree of acid range, but I don't know what it is. I was using a Nessler reagent, and the color in the test vial was yellow, maybe someone on the list can tell you what that is. My health has'nt been up to par, and that's the reason I've given myself for doing less than weekly water changes, and I just gave away my last 75 gallon tank and fish. Not overfeeding can diminish the presence of worms, be they benign or parasitic, unless they depend on fish or whatever for survival.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     I kept a couple tanks for plant prunings, and Java moss and fern that outgrew the main tank, in case I needed them, and a couple of those snails ended-up in one of those tanks. Turned out those little tanks went alkaline, and though I never fed those snails, for a couple years or so, they could be seen munching away, mostly on the inner tank surface. They never proliferated in that tank for some reason, and I never saw the worms that I associated with them, in that tank. They were the only two snails that survived the acidification of my 75 gallon tank. After a couple years, and a water change, I decided to see what would happen if I fed the snails brine-shrimp-pellets. The snail that survived a previous water change, ate some of the pellets and went into a state as if he/she was undergoing an unpleasant physical change, with what seemed to be copious fecal-casts, and the snail stopped ruminating, but did'nt appear to be dead. At this point I don't know if the snail is alive or not, but besides the lack of motion, there seems to be no decomposition.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3074 From: Patrick Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I think the pH of 6.6 may be the reason for my lack of a snail invasion.  And I thought it was my removal plan.  I sure hope the pH never goes up!  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3075 From: Tina Date: 7/2/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: New Member Hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi, My name is Tina. I am a new aquarist. So, I'm sure glad I found this site. I have 2 goldfish atthe moment. There names are Nemo and Dasher. Dasher is my newestGoldie. I had to put another one to sleep the other day. His name wasOscar,and he is greatly missed. I didn't know how much until I sawNemo just moping at the bottom of the tank. Not swimming or eating.So that's how Dasher came to be. Dasher because when I picked him/herout,that's all he was doing was dashing back and forth. Well needlessto say He and Nemo have bonded nicely. I will visit often. I hope Idon't become to much of a pest with alot of questions. Later-Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3076 From: Aaron Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: New Member Hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    HI Tina,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Welcome to the Group and thanks for joining.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Don't worry about becoming a "pest", we love to answer all questions.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In fact I even like asking them myself. "How big is your tank?" - is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my favorite, so here goes - How big is your tank? Do you have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    pictures? (my 2nd fav). How long have you been keeping fish? etc..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I could go on, I just enjoy all the details and getting to know more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    about others who share this hobbie (or passion).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When you get a chance, please take a minute to respond to the Survey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in Poll Seection.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/polls

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You can vote for all your favorite topics.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Aaron

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Tina"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <sgtbarnes86@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi, My name is Tina. I am a new aquarist. So, I'm sure glad I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    found this site. I have 2 goldfish at the moment. There names are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nemo and Dasher. Dasher is my newest Goldie. I had to put another one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to sleep the other day. His name was Oscar,and he is greatly missed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I didn't know how much until I saw Nemo just moping at the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the tank. Not swimming or eating. So that's how Dasher came to be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Dasher because when I picked him/herout, that's all he was doing was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    dashing back and forth. Well needless to say He and Nemo have bonded
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nicely. I will visit often. I hope I don't become to much of a pest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with alot of questions. Later-Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3077 From: Aaron Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: the 2004 AGA International Aquascaping Contest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To all interested in Photography and/or Planted Aquariums

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is information about the Aquatic Gardeners Associations Annual
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Contest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you're new to the contest, here's how it works: Take up to five
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    photographs of your aquascaped freshwater aquarium. Our categories
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    are "Aquatic Garden", "Biotope Aquascape", and "Paludarium". Register
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and enter online (you can upload your photos directly), or print out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and mail the old-fashioned entry form. There is a $5 fee per entry,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and each person can submit up to three entries. Further details can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    be found in the guidelines section. But the best way to get an idea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of how the contest works is to browse our previous years' entries.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The contest closes September 15th, and winners will be announced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    simultaneously on this site and live at the AGA Convention in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Washington DC the weekend of November 12th.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004.cgi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3078 From: Aaron Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Red, White & Blue Fish Tank Pics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi All,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Here in the USA we are getting ready to Celebrate our Nations
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Independance Day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In Honor of the 4th of July, I am looking for Patriotic Pictures of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Aquatic Life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There is currently a picture of a Red & White Fish w/ a Blue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    background on the home page.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If anybody has pictures that are all American Colors, please share
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    them with us.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Have a great weekend!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3079 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: attn mjb snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    well unfortantaly i dont have clown loaches... not sure if they would work in my aquarium... i have tetras and a gourami alage eater and catfish... and frogs.. do you think they would work.. well i guess even if they did i would have to wait till someone passed on as i am pretty full up lol shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry for asking but why don't you drop in the team of clown loaches like we've been yaking about, swear they will knock off the snails faster then you think. They really like their "S-Car-Go"   .. MJB
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:59 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thanks this isnt looking good for me... i am so mad thoguht cuase i was so careful... i have never seen any when i vacumn i did that just a week ago but maybe they are just starting.. i am so anal rentative i will get every last one out of there yea right i guess they arent harmful right... hrm shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This has been my experience with those type of snails (ramshorns and pest snails both)  If you have seen 2 you will find tons more eventually.  I am having an out break of pest snails right now in one of my 40 gal tanks.  I was only seeing 1 or 2 at a time and those I was crushing and leaving in for my apple snails to eat.  It seems like overnight I came in to find hundreds :-(   I have been crushing them, I also removed all decorations and wipe the eggs off.  If you just look into my tank right now you wont see any but when I start to vacuum I see tons of them.  I don't think they are harming my tank, but they do annoy me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    One harmless way of catching them is to place a piece of cucumber under a small inverted plate, I use unglazed terra cotta flower pot bottoms, in the morning lift the plate and there should be snails on the cucumber.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3080 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    so since we have been talking about ph and all for snails.. i was wondering does anyone have a suggestion for a testing kit that has everythign i would need all in one place and one that is easy for a first timer like myself... i have been using my local pet store to run my test but now i feel like i can take on that responsibility... suggestions welcome... thanks shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3081 From: Aaron Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: homepage photo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    might be glosso?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    here is the website:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    here my pictures of my nano planted aquarium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=15

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GATTI


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    from posts:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 2747 of 3080
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "Paulo Gatti" <apmgjr@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:57 pm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Pics of my NANO planted aquariuim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    here my pictures of my nano planted aquarium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=15

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GATTI


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Tim Walker <mailto:twalker@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 1:28 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Pics of my NANO
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    planted aquariuim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That's definitely a Nano. :-) a glosso in there looks big :-)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On 24/6/04 5:57 AM, "Paulo Gatti" <apmgjr@...> wrote:



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    here my pictures of my nano planted aquarium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=15

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GATTI


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Message 2889 of 3079
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "Paulo Gatti" <apmgjr@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:58 am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Java mos in home see the pictures...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Beauty, Java-moos in nature-home:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=206

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If ou ar not registered just use this link to register its free and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    easy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/profile.php?mode=register

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sory my poor english :-/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    from Brazil,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GATTI


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    brennemann" <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > What are thos little plants sticking up through the sand at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > bottom of the bowl? I love them!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3082 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I use Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Test Kit, which includes tests for low & high range pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and carbonate hardness.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    so since we have been talking about ph and all for snails.. i was wondering does anyone have a suggestion for a testing kit that has everythign i would need all in one place and one that is easy for a first timer like myself... i have been using my local pet store to run my test but now i feel like i can take on that responsibility... suggestions welcome... thanks shannon 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3083 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: they are stalking me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ok, how big is the tank you're talking about? What fish do you have...types, numbers, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've never heard of cories eating snails. Gouramis occasionally will but that's not a given.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Really your best bet are some loaches. There have been many recommendations for clowns but the fact is they like to be in groups and get quite large. There are other loaches that will eat snails though, even the little botia sidthimunki.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you have the space in your tank, I'd look at your lfs, see what loaches are available, then do a bit of research to see if they're snail-eaters. A good site for loach info is http://www.loaches.com/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And my worries continue as of this am i woke up to a bigger snail.... so this makes it 3 i think they're stalking me... i have 3 cory catfish but i dont think they would eat tthem i also have a grourami someone i thought said they eat them... amybe that is why i am not seeing so many.. who knows... i put them in the sink maybe i should be crushing them and feeding them to the cory's any thoughts... shannon 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3084 From: captaininsane357 Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: ghost shrimp - Part II
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks Dattilo,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Did a bit more research, and you are correct, those are orangespotted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sunfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Renamed the files on my pic site.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    highwaychilde@y... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I looked at your natives pictures, very cool. I mostly keep natives
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with one tropical tank. I believe the fish you are calling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pumpkinseeds are orangespotted sunfish, they dont normally get much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > bigger than about 3 inches. Pumpkinseeds have a red bar on the back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of their "ear tabs" much like redear sunfish do. Your mystery fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is some kind of darter, possibly a rainbow or orangethroat. There is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a couple of groups that deal with keeping native fish NANFA and NFC.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > NFC has a great yahoo group you should join (if you havent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > already).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > NFC = Native Fish Conservancy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > NANFA = North American Native Fish Association
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Dattilo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3085 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Okay, You've about sold me...how do those loaches do in a tank full
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of little guys, like tetras and guppies?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3086 From: bryants4god Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I get those 5 in 1 test strips from foster and smith, you get 100 strips for $25.  I was paying $11 for 25 strips locally.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Are there any better prices out there?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:15 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] testing kits

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    so since we have been talking about ph and all for snails.. i was wondering does anyone have a suggestion for a testing kit that has everythign i would need all in one place and one that is easy for a first timer like myself... i have been using my local pet store to run my test but now i feel like i can take on that responsibility... suggestions welcome... thanks shannon 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3087 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No Paul, outside of Buffalo. But Blue Oyster Cult plays the Navy Pier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    almost every summer and we were gonna go this year, of couse, no show
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    this year. They're last show there was caught on DVD, though. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    called "A Long Day's Night" If they play next year, we'll be there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe we could meet you for some fish shopping while there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3088 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Clowns grow very slowly but eventually will outgrow a small tank if you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it. I would suggest you to go for smaller species of loaches to control
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    snails rather then clowns. They can otherwise easily live with smaller fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    like tetras and guppies but not a fully grown clown. Things like botis
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sidhmunki (might have the spelling wrong) remain very small and can control
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    snail population. Other then these the yoyo loach and botis stratia can grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    upto 4" but are awesome against snails. Clowns can easily get upto 10".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >From: cynthia brennemann [mailto:brennewoman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Sent: 03 July 2004 15:16
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snails and clown loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Okay, You've about sold me...how do those loaches do in a tank full
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >of little guys, like tetras and guppies?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3089 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Greetings, Don't take this to heart BUT you would be erroneous to generalize snails as needing high level Ph to create their shells. Snails are found in all but a very few habitats worldwide. From abyssal plains of the ocean to tannic acid laden waters of the Amazonian drainage basin. To compare a snail in the everglades such as the applesnail with lives in the water at about 6.8-7.5Ph and have relativly thin shells to the tree snails (Liguus) which have zero contact with the water and live only on limbo gumbo trees and eat only the lichen which is about nuetral in Ph but have very strong shells.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A helmut shell (Cassidae) which is giant doesn't take it's calcium from the water as with most marine mollusca but from it's food (mostly sea urchins), you could stand on the shell it's that strong. Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:59 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Snails need a PH of 8 to 8.2 for the best shell development.  Pest snails are hard to get rid of by poor water conditions but common ramshorn are easily killed by water conditions.  If fact some people keep them in their tanks because they show sign of distress quickly.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    MJP --  As for the clown loaches, the problem hasn't been bad enough (yet) for me to purchase and care for fish that I don't want.  But I will keep that advice in mind if it comes to that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: j.pascavage@... [mailto:j.pascavage@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 8:27 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If your fish live in a PH below 7, there's a chance the snails will eventually die-off. I don't know how low the PH should be, but Since I eventually neglected to do aquarium maintainance at times when I had nuisance snails, I discovered my PH dropped below 7, and my Corys did'nt seem to be suffering. The snails disappeared in acidic PH and I'd read the snails can't form their shells in some degree of acid range, but I don't know what it is. I was using a Nessler reagent, and the color in the test vial was yellow, maybe someone on the list can tell you what that is. My health has'nt been up to par, and that's the reason I've given myself for doing less than weekly water changes, and I just gave away my last 75 gallon tank and fish. Not overfeeding can diminish the presence of worms, be they benign or parasitic, unless they depend on fish or whatever for survival.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       I kept a couple tanks for plant prunings, and Java moss and fern that outgrew the main tank, in case I needed them, and a couple of those snails ended-up in one of those tanks. Turned out those little tanks went alkaline, and though I never fed those snails, for a couple years or so, they could be seen munching away, mostly on the inner tank surface. They never proliferated in that tank for some reason, and I never saw the worms that I associated with them, in that tank. They were the only two snails that survived the acidification of my 75 gallon tank. After a couple years, and a water change, I decided to see what would happen if I fed the snails brine-shrimp-pellets. The snail that survived a previous water change, ate some of the pellets and went into a state as if he/she was undergoing an unpleasant physical change, with what seemed to be copious fecal-casts, and the snail stopped ruminating, but did'nt appear to be dead. At this point I don't know if the snail is alive or not, but besides the lack of motion, there seems to be no decomposition.




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3090 From: Patrick Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I agree with Aquarium Pharm. master kit.  I use the liquid kits because I like their accuracy and relative cheapness.  If you want real accuracy, there is a product but I forgot what it is called.  If you want less accuracy, go with the little sticks like fish stores used.  I prefer the middle. :)  The best thing about Aquarium Pharm. is that they have exact numbers of each color, not just too high, low, acceptable, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      so since we have been talking about ph and all for snails.. i was wondering does anyone have a suggestion for a testing kit that has everythign i would need all in one place and one that is easy for a first timer like myself... i have been using my local pet store to run my test but now i feel like i can take on that responsibility... suggestions welcome... thanks shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3091 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New Member Hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hobby? Passion? Don't you mean addiction, Aaron? :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3092 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: attn mjb snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Red tail botia's are a good option that don't get as big as clowns, IMO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3093 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mardel test strips. Nitrite, nitrate, alkalinity, pH and hardness.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Aquarium Pharm make a cheap liquid ammonia tester since the Mardel test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      strips are devoid of this. It's pretty accurate, some people do have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      trouble reading the results, but it seems it's usually guys. Might be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the color blindness associated with the male of the species. But what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      do I know, I'm a guy after all....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3094 From: bryants4god Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I apologize, I was referring only to apple snails since that is what I breed.  You are right, I should make sure and be very clear.  No offense taken. Sometimes I live in my own little snail world lol.....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:14 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings, Don't take this to heart BUT you would be erroneous to generalize snails as needing high level Ph to create their shells. Snails are found in all but a very few habitats worldwide. From abyssal plains of the ocean to tannic acid laden waters of the Amazonian drainage basin. To compare a snail in the everglades such as the applesnail with lives in the water at about 6.8-7.5Ph and have relativly thin shells to the tree snails (Liguus) which have zero contact with the water and live only on limbo gumbo trees and eat only the lichen which is about nuetral in Ph but have very strong shells.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      A helmut shell (Cassidae) which is giant doesn't take it's calcium from the water as with most marine mollusca but from it's food (mostly sea urchins), you could stand on the shell it's that strong. Mark

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3095 From: bryants4god Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have tried those liquid vial testers, I have 2 or 3 kinds (ph, ammonia etc.) For the life of me I can't tell what color the vial matches on the card, it drives me nuts so I have to use those strips.  Any tips on matching the vial to the card? I have tried bright light and going outside.  My husband can't tell any better than I can and I am not color blind as far as I know.....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Patrick [mailto:americanfishguy@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 10:19 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] testing kits

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I agree with Aquarium Pharm. master kit.  I use the liquid kits because I like their accuracy and relative cheapness.  If you want real accuracy, there is a product but I forgot what it is called.  If you want less accuracy, go with the little sticks like fish stores used.  I prefer the middle. :)  The best thing about Aquarium Pharm. is that they have exact numbers of each color, not just too high, low, acceptable, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3096 From: joegum Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Goldfish & snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Would goldfish be effective in controlling snails? -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3097 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Goldfish & snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have 2 feeder goldfish who are now about 2 inches long very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pretty, but not snail eaters. I have some trumpet snails that had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      like 10 babies i've noticed so far and they will pick them up but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      they always spit them back out. well this is just my experience with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      them. i'll try and take some pictures of my goldfish and when i get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a good one i'll post it. melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Would goldfish be effective in controlling snails? -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3098 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Anyone know about catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      They are probably some type of bullhead. Is their bottom whiskers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      white or brown? Are their tails forked or not? What state did they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      come from? Catfish are hard to kill. they will probably outgrow the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank pretty quickly unless they are some sort of madtom which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      small native catfish that usually dont get bigger than 4 inches.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      alot of species will grow at different rates and the bigger ones will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      end up eating the smaller ones in a small tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Dattilo


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "iloveguppies"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > i have 10 fresh water catfish. they are under a inch big, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > came from a creek, we thought they where tadpoles till we put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > clear water. they seem to love fish food and are so cute i am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > posting a picture under melanie's pics. any info anyone can share
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > would be appreciated thanks. Melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3099 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Terri, "Reading" the test results from the liquid test kits for some people sometimes requires getting a knack for it. Many hobbyists, after getting a knack for reading the results, know in an instant what the result is at just a glance, or at least after several seconds as sometimes (with an in between shade) the result will be closer to one color sample than the other. I find that most liquid kits are much more accurate than the test strips. There are a few liquid kits that I detest, however. In general, the strips lose whatever accuracy they may have with age. As the liquid test results are of course translucent and they are being compared to an opaque sample chart, it can sometimes be difficult for the beginner. You might try holding the liquid test vial up against a white background (sheet of paper, etc.); I still do this sometimes when in doubt, if I feel I need to, which usually is with water very near but not quite neutral. You should get a better idea of what that color really is. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3100 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: they are stalking me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i have a 20 gallon with 3 bleeding heart heart tetras, 3 rasaboro tetras 1 gourami, 4 cory catfish, 1 algea eater, 3 frogs.. 5 neon tetras, 2 hatchet fishthe tank is planted and very heavily i think that is why i dont have a issue with crowding... so with those can i add the loaches... that you speak of... thanks for your help shannon and ps will the loaches eat them all gone forever...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ok, how big is the tank you're talking about? What fish do you have...types, numbers, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've never heard of cories eating snails. Gouramis occasionally will but that's not a given.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Really your best bet are some loaches. There have been many recommendations for clowns but the fact is they like to be in groups and get quite large. There are other loaches that will eat snails though, even the little botia sidthimunki.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you have the space in your tank, I'd look at your lfs, see what loaches are available, then do a bit of research to see if they're snail-eaters. A good site for loach info is http://www.loaches.com/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3101 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: theresa: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      t hanks souands like a good one. how much should it cost.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I use Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master Test Kit, which includes tests for low & high range pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and carbonate hardness.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3102 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that looks so awsome to me.. i jsut might buy that one... thanks so much you have so much good knowledge im glad your here.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      get those 5 in 1 test strips from foster and smith, you get 100 strips for $25.  I was paying $11 for 25 strips locally.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Are there any better prices out there?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Terri Bryant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3103 From: Tina Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: New Member Hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,"Aaron"<massagetherapist@m...> wrote: > HI Tina,> > Welcome to the Groupand thanks for joining.> > Don't worry about becoming a "pest", welove to answer allquestions.> In fact I even like asking them myself."How big is your tank?" - is > my favorite, so here goes - How big isyour tank? Do you have any > pictures? (my 2nd fav). How long haveyou been keeping fish? etc..> I could go on, I just enjoy all thedetails and getting to knowmore > about others who share this hobbie(or passion).> > When you get a chance, please take a minute torespond to theSurvey > in Poll Seection. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/polls> > Youcan vote for all your favorite topics.> > Aaron > > Aaron, I startedout with a goldfish bowl about 6months ago. This is embarrassing toadmit.But, I purchaced the fishorgionally to amuse my cats. I wastold the swimming around wouldkeep them occupied. WRONG! They lostinterest and I gained theinterest Now I'm hooked. In a few weeks thatturned into a 5 gallontank. Then I got another goldfish and foundthat it was too small forboth of them. So, now I have a 29 gallontank with 2 goldfish. I'minterested in adding other fish,but am notsure what if anything willget along with my Goldies? I'm open forsuggestions. I'm sorry to sayI don't have photos. How would you postthem? Well that's thewhole story of the start of my aquarist days.--Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3104 From: bob_burnett_180 Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: I am relatively new to this and need some help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have a couple of questions. First - I have a 10 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      two mollies and two black tetras and a plecostomus. The pleco won't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      do his job, though. He finds a place he likes and stays there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Right now he is inside one of the decorations and hasn't moved for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      about 3 weeks. Algae is building up all over the tank. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      put another pleco in there with him?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Second - I have a 5 gallon tank that used to have 6 goldfish in it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ick killed 5 of them. The one that survived, a black moor, doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      seem to have been affected at all. My girlfriend wants to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      guppies in that tank now. Should I leave the black moor in there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      with the guppies, or get another tank? Does the black moor need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      another goldfish to hang out with?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for any help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3105 From: muskie4817 Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I just got home from work and looked at my tank and noticed what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      looks like foamy bubbles on the top of my water and along side the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      glass in one part of my tank. Any ideas as to what is causing this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and how to get rid of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3106 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need some help

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      A Pleco in a 10 gallon tank is like your mother forcing you to live in the same clothes and sleep in the same bed you had when you were a toddler. Are you sure he is'nt stuck in the decoration? He could have grown in there like a ball in a socket.  I kept a Pleco for someone who needed to improve his lot, since he/she outgrew the tank, and the guy did'nt do much but look wise or wary or resigned or something, and attach h'self to the glass occasionally when not resting on the bottom amidst the flurries of Corydoras. I had a Corydora die trapped in a snap-together assemblage thet was supposed to resemble eroded shale. A Pleco is'nt supposed to keep the tank free of algae, as far as I know, and if there's so much algae the tank needs tidying, it is'nt the Plecos' fault. If your new to the hobby, and you stay plugged into responsible channels of information, you're going to see or hear that you have too many fish for your conditions.If you're keeping Goldfish or Plecos',  you should consider devoting your resources to aquiring the largest tank you can afford, and it's best to do so no matter the size of fish you're keeping. It's all relative. Most fish grew in environs that are almost unimagineably larger than we can imaging, and accomodating a creature so they're relatively, if not absolutely comfortable would be the decent thing to do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I have a couple of questions. First - I have a 10 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > two mollies and two black tetras and a plecostomus. The pleco won't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > do his job, though. He finds a place he likes and stays there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Right now he is inside one of the decorations and hasn't moved for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > about 3 weeks. Algae is building up all over the tank. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > put another pleco in there with him?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Second - I have a 5 gallon tank that used to have 6 goldfish in it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Ick killed 5 of them. The one that survived, a black moor, doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > seem to have been affected at all. My girlfriend wants to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > guppies in that tank now. Should I leave the black moor in there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > with the guppies, or get another tank? Does the black moor need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > another goldfish to hang out with?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Thanks for any help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3107 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need som...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 7/3/2004 3:12:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bob_burnett_180@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      First - I have a 10 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      two mollies and two black tetras and a plecostomus.  The pleco won't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      do his job, though.  He finds a place he likes and stays there. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Right now he is inside one of the decorations and hasn't moved for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      about 3 weeks.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Are you sure he's still alive?? Plecos are nocturnal, so during the day they WILL stay hidden for the most part, but you should see him move around at least every now and then. If you look at his front end and sort of tilt your head, you should be able to see his mouth moving.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Try looking in the aquarium when the aquarium light is off, and room lights are on. You might be able to see him move around the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      How often do you clean your tank? Where is the tank situated (is it close to a window, etc)?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Even with a pleco, a good (and cheap) investment would be an algae scrubber sponge. They don't cost more than a couple of bucks, they're low tech *grin*, and they work. Mollies also will eat some algae off of the glass, but not enough that you can keep mollies in a tank without something else that eats algae. (which I'm finding out now the hard way)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Also, how big is the plecostamus? They aren't usually recommended for smaller tanks (like the 10 gallon) because they quickly outgrow it. My mother has a 10 gallon tank, and has an otocinclus (sp??) catfish in there and is thinking of getting another couple. Otos are a lot smaller than plecostamus, and better suited for smaller tanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think the general consensus on goldfish is not to put them in a tank with any other sort of fish. Something about different digestion, or something? So if you want more fish to keep your black moor goldfish company, maybe another black moor. I don't know how big they get, so I'm not sure how many goldfish you can keep in the 5 gallon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3108 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 7/3/2004 4:06:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, muskie4817@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      noticed what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      looks like foamy bubbles on the top of my water and along side the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      glass in one part of my tank.  Any ideas as to what is causing this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and how to get rid of it?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What kind of fish are in the tank? Are you treating it with any medications? I know melafix can make the water foamy sometimes. But I think localized bubbles like you are describing sounds more like a male fish's bubble nest ... do you have a male gourami or male betta? Those are two types of fish that I know of that build bubble nests.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3109 From: Patrick Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need some help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It is true that plecos are not herbivores, they are in fact omnivores.  They MUST be fed algae chips, squash, shrimp pellets, and wood.  Without those foods, they will die quite quickly.  Plecos don't leave their caves during the day unless they feel really comfortable doing it.  They are nocturnal, and should be fed at night with the foods I mentioned.  Only one of those types of food per night, though.  Plecos, depending on species, may reach 2 feet.  They need large tanks (like over 70 gallons).  Note that my 6" pleco is in a 29 gallon.  My only choice at this point is kill him or let him stay.  Nobody will take him.  If I could find a place to take him, I would.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Goldfish MUST be put in tanks 20 gallons for 1 fish and 10 gallons more for each additional goldfish.  Anything else is much too small.  They grow to well over a foot and live over 20-30 years.  They should never be kept with anything other than goldfish.  This is mainly because they need cooler waters (tropical fish must be kept at a temp above 75°, goldfish prefer 70 or lower) and goldfish may eat guppies or other small fish as they grow.  Black moors stay under a foot, but it would still be a good idea to get it into a 20 gallon tank because they are so messy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Joe is right, invest in a large tank if you can.  I know what it is like to not be able to.  I saved for a year to get my 29 gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I hope this helps. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have a couple of questions.  First - I have a 10 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        two mollies and two black tetras and a plecostomus.  The pleco won't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        do his job, though.  He finds a place he likes and stays there. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Right now he is inside one of the decorations and hasn't moved for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        about 3 weeks.  Algae is building up all over the tank.  Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        put another pleco in there with him?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Second - I have a 5 gallon tank that used to have 6 goldfish in it. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Ick killed 5 of them.  The one that survived, a black moor, doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        seem to have been affected at all.  My girlfriend wants to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        guppies in that tank now.  Should I leave the black moor in there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        with the guppies, or get another tank?  Does the black moor need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        another goldfish to hang out with?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks for any help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3110 From: Patrick Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you have an airstone or is the filter making bubbles?  That is normal and nothing to worry about. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3111 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Anyone know about catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The bottom wiskers are white, and the tails are just like a rounded
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          style. they are from Kansas. I have them in a little carry cage for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          now but i have a 10 gallon to put them in soon. i think i will keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          them out of my tank i have little fish. there are some smaller ones
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and only two that are maybe an inch. I have a picture of them under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          melanie's pics if you would like to see. if you think you know what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they are let me know. also they where in a little creek so i assume
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they can stand cold water and warm at times since it gets in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          100's in kansas or should they be kept at a certain temp? and is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          flake food and if i can find it some type of live worms ok food or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          should they be eating something else? they love the fish food they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          swim upside down to eat it sometimes it's neat to watch. thanks for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          your help. melanie


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > They are probably some type of bullhead. Is their bottom whiskers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > white or brown? Are their tails forked or not? What state did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > come from? Catfish are hard to kill. they will probably outgrow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tank pretty quickly unless they are some sort of madtom which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > small native catfish that usually dont get bigger than 4 inches.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > alot of species will grow at different rates and the bigger ones
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > end up eating the smaller ones in a small tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Dattilo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "iloveguppies"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > i have 10 fresh water catfish. they are under a inch big, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > came from a creek, we thought they where tadpoles till we put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > clear water. they seem to love fish food and are so cute i am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > posting a picture under melanie's pics. any info anyone can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          share
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > would be appreciated thanks. Melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3112 From: Angela Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have my clown loaches in a 55 gal with my discus and angels! I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bought them because they are beautiful, so, I wouldnt suggest buying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a fish you DID NOT want, but is there really any fish that us fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lovers do NOT want? LOL.. Anyways, I sell shells for breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          shell dwellers, and I put some 4 inch turbos in my 55 gal tank, my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          clown loaches used to huddle in them, now only 1 can fit in them at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a time!! Great fish, they dont bother any of my fish and I keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          some juvenile livebearers in the tank. (they will however jump an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          apple snail that is 2 inches wide and have a buffet on it! LOL)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have heard puffer fish will also eat snails, but I myself have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          never kept any of those!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you dont want to buy more fish to eat the snails and/or do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          want to use chemicals(which I do not favor), I would suggest you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          follow the other suggestion, put a piece of cucumber or squash in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          there.. and wait for the snails to start eating it, and net them and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the veggie out! I use this method, as well. All in all, I dont see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a big problem with the pond snails.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ang
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3113 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need some help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i disagree with the statement about plecos having to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          be fed alternative foods. i have never had to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          suplememnt my plecos, they have always done great with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          algae and left over flake that hits the bottom. never
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lost one yet, but have had to exchange for smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ones.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > It is true that plecos are not herbivores, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > are in fact omnivores.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > They MUST be fed algae chips, squash, shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > pellets, and wood. Without
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > those foods, they will die quite quickly. Plecos
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > don't leave their caves
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > during the day unless they feel really comfortable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > doing it. They are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > nocturnal, and should be fed at night with the foods
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I mentioned. Only one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of those types of food per night, though. Plecos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > depending on species, may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > reach 2 feet. They need large tanks (like over 70
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gallons). Note that my 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > pleco is in a 29 gallon. My only choice at this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > point is kill him or let
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > him stay. Nobody will take him. If I could find a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > place to take him, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > would.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Goldfish MUST be put in tanks 20 gallons for 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish and 10 gallons more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > for each additional goldfish. Anything else is much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > too small. They grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > to well over a foot and live over 20-30 years. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > should never be kept
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with anything other than goldfish. This is mainly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > because they need cooler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > waters (tropical fish must be kept at a temp above
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 75�, goldfish prefer 70
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > or lower) and goldfish may eat guppies or other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > small fish as they grow.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Black moors stay under a foot, but it would still be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > a good idea to get it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > into a 20 gallon tank because they are so messy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Joe is right, invest in a large tank if you can.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I know what it is like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > to not be able to. I saved for a year to get my 29
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I hope this helps. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 2 neons and 3 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > raised guppy, 3 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > betta, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > inexperienced fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have a couple of questions. First - I have a 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > two mollies and two black tetras and a plecostomus.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The pleco won't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > do his job, though. He finds a place he likes and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > stays there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Right now he is inside one of the decorations and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hasn't moved for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > about 3 weeks. Algae is building up all over the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tank. Should I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > put another pleco in there with him?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Second - I have a 5 gallon tank that used to have 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > goldfish in it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Ick killed 5 of them. The one that survived, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > black moor, doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > seem to have been affected at all. My girlfriend
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > wants to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > guppies in that tank now. Should I leave the black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > moor in there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with the guppies, or get another tank? Does the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > black moor need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > another goldfish to hang out with?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks for any help.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3114 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          hey bucks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i was asking if you were near chicago because i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          not heard many people say "snarky" before. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          girlfriend and her parents say it occasionally, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they are originally from a small town outside of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          chicago. lol. but if you are ever in the bay area of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          california i would love to show you some of the lfs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          around here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > No Paul, outside of Buffalo. But Blue Oyster Cult
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > plays the Navy Pier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > almost every summer and we were gonna go this year,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of couse, no show
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > this year. They're last show there was caught on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > DVD, though. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > called "A Long Day's Night" If they play next year,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > we'll be there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Maybe we could meet you for some fish shopping while
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3115 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          has anyone else ever had a problem keeping clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          loaches with cori cats?



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3116 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i was referring to ramshorns. the ones we have in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          california do the same thing, they may sit for a year
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          in an aquarium and not breed, then all of a sudden
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          something changes in the tank or you transfer them and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you can find egg sacks everywhere.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- Todd Fields <jtfields91@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > they can breed independently, so it does not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > really
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > What does this mean? That they do not need a male
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > female to reproduce? I'm pretty sure that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > case with Apple Snails, at least according to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Applesnails.net, it states there that a male and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > female are required to reproduce. I wasn't sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the Ramshorns or conicals though, although my lone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Ramshorn has never reproduced.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3117 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Yet More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          never seen a trumpet attack a plant eaither, but they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          keep substarte super clean




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Apple snails and trumpet snails are totally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > different species and creatures, apple snails (sorry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > , aint get'n the big book out for these mollusks)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > are HERBIVORES, trumpet snails are omnivores but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > given the opportunity they prefer meat and do a fine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > job of eating waste and concentrating it for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > plants to absorb, you know , come to think of it , I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > have NEVER seen a trumpet snail eat a plant...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > From: bryants4god
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > They can not interbreed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > If the apple snail is over 1" long at time of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > purchase and is a female she can still lay eggs if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > she has been bred at the pet store. They can store
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > sperm up to 6 months. To avoid this buy a baby. Do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > not try to have 2 buy purchasing the same sex, one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > will change eventually so they can breed. I do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > know if this is true of trumpet snails.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have apples and rams in the same tanks and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > do not bother each other. If you crush and kill a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > rams or pest snail and leave it in the tank the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > apple will eat it. The largest planorbis ram I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > is the size of a nickel. The apple rams get much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > larger.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Terri Bryant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Over The Rainbow Snails.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Over The Rainbow Snails - Aquabid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Over The Rainbow Snails - Ebay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > From: Todd Fields [mailto:jtfields91@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 12:10 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > To:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > More Snail Questions (Mixing Snail Species)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I wanted a snail in my son's little Eclipse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Three
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (he's one year old and gets a kick out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > watching the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > snail scoot along.) However, I did not want a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > problem so I simply added only one snail. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3118 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not clowns but I've kept cories with queen, sids, and kuhlis with no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          problems.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > has anyone else ever had a problem keeping clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > loaches with cori cats?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3119 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have corys with clowns. No problems yet but my clowns are 4" only. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cannot say if they can do well with a 10-15" clown.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >Sent: 03 July 2004 23:16
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >Not clowns but I've kept cories with queen, sids, and kuhlis with no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> has anyone else ever had a problem keeping clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >> loaches with cori cats?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3120 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: SNAILS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          H'lo,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             In case someone remembers the snail of two I mentioned a couple or so emails back, I remembered the first so-called pest-snail died 'cause I placed a 'Pothos" leaf (a relative of Philodendron ) in the tank to root, or 'till I had time to see if it would root in a glass, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I found the snail was attracted to the leaf, but stopped his perennial foraging somewhat, and I later found him dead at the bottom of the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3121 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i have 6 cori's in my tank and for some resaon i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          not been able to keep clowns alive more than a week



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- Nimish Mathur <nimmat4@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have corys with clowns. No problems yet but my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > clowns are 4" only. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > cannot say if they can do well with a 10-15" clown.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >Sent: 03 July 2004 23:16
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:coris
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >Not clowns but I've kept cories with queen, sids,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and kuhlis with no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >> has anyone else ever had a problem keeping clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >> loaches with cori cats?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3122 From: audralee Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have 3  4" clown loaches in a 30 long with 6 cories, 4 gouramies and a 5" angelicus cat and 4 pseudotropheus demasoni.  They've been in the same tank for 8 months with no problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 6:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] coris and clowns

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          has anyone else ever had a problem keeping clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          loaches with cori cats?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3123 From: bryants4god Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: testing kits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I will keep trying to read them.  They are cheaper and more accurate than strips that's why I bought the tube tests.  I am glad to hear I am not the only one with problems determining the colors though! 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: sevenspringss@... [mailto:sevenspringss@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 12:44 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] testing kits

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Terri, "Reading" the test results from the liquid test kits for some people sometimes requires getting a knack for it. Many hobbyists, after getting a knack for reading the results, know in an instant what the result is at just a glance, or at least after several seconds as sometimes (with an in between shade) the result will be closer to one color sample than the other. I find that most liquid kits are much more accurate than the test strips. There are a few liquid kits that I detest, however. In general, the strips lose whatever accuracy they may have with age. As the liquid test results are of course translucent and they are being compared to an opaque sample chart, it can sometimes be difficult for the beginner. You might try holding the liquid test vial up against a white background (sheet of paper, etc.); I still do this sometimes when in doubt, if I feel I need to, which usually is with water very near but not quite neutral. You should get a better idea of what that color really is. Ray 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3124 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: coris and clowns

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     H'lo,......and I'm not saying I know what happened to your loaches if it was'nt congenital, not sufficient quarantine or poor water conditions, but maybe you know Corydoras' have leading-edges for their fins(pectoral? the Bigger ones on the side) that are spikes for defense, and if your Loaches were big enough to fit the Corys into their mouths (those honest-to-GOD-endearing-little, peacful Corys) they could have survived damage for a while.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i have 6 cori's in my tank and for some resaon i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > not been able to keep clowns alive more than a week
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- Nimish Mathur wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I have corys with clowns. No problems yet but my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > clowns are 4" only. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > cannot say if they can do well with a 10-15" clown.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >From: Dan & Theresa [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >Sent: 03 July 2004 23:16
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:coris
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >Not clowns but I've kept cories with queen, sids,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > and kuhlis with no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >From: "paul helms"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >> has anyone else ever had a problem keeping clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >> loaches with cori cats?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3125 From: captaininsane357 Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have never had any luck keeping the clown loaches in any of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my tanks, whether cories where there or not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Got 7 tanks with a wide variety of fish, and they are the only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ones who just dont seem to make it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          At this point, I am almost sure it is just due to how hard the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water is here.... Dont want to be adding chemicals to my tanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          so I am just doing without the loaches....


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > has anyone else ever had a problem keeping clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > loaches with cori cats?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3126 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water conditions are in good shape, it is a planted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          breading tank for guppies, with cori's as a clean up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          crew. filtrationand aeration are good, and i lose
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nothing but the clown loaches. i also have 2 kuhli
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          loaches, but they have not always been there when i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          lost clowns. i have tried them from different stores
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          with different suppliers, but just noluck, and no one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          can find a reason why...... i have never tried a clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          large enough to get anywhere near fitting my cori's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          into its mouth. 1/2 of the cori's were actually born
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          in my tank as well.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > H'lo,......and I'm not saying I know what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > happened to your loaches if it was'nt congenital,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > not sufficient quarantine or poor water conditions,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > but maybe you know Corydoras' have leading-edges for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > their fins(pectoral? the Bigger ones on the side)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > that are spikes for defense, and if your Loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > were big enough to fit the Corys into their mouths
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (those honest-to-GOD-endearing-little, peacful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Corys) they could have survived damage for a while.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > i have 6 cori's in my tank and for some resaon i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > not been able to keep clowns alive more than a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > week
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > --- Nimish Mathur wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > I have corys with clowns. No problems yet but my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > clowns are 4" only. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > cannot say if they can do well with a 10-15"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > clown.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >From: Dan & Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > [mailto:dtmergl@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >Sent: 03 July 2004 23:16
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >To:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Re:coris
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >Not clowns but I've kept cories with queen,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > sids,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > and kuhlis with no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >From: "paul helms"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >> has anyone else ever had a problem keeping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >> loaches with cori cats?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3127 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: new fishies!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I just got two new fishies the other day.... a black Balloon Molly (female) and a white (albino??) Mickey Mouse Platy (female).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Both fish are getting along well in their new home. I've got to get some oto's tomorrow, to replace the pleco that I gave to mom.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So! Current tank residents :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 adult "Fancy Mollies" (f)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 young "Fancy Mollies" - about 2 months old (f)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 Black Balloon Molly (f) - unsure of age, it's lots smaller than the adults, but bigger than the young
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 adult Red Wag Platies (f)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 young Red Wag Platy (f) - couple months old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 young Mickey Mouse Platy (f) - must be same age as Red Wag fry, they are about same size

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Can Mickey Mouse Platies be albino? My new Mickey Mouse is so white, she's almost transparent, and her mouth and gill area is pinkish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3128 From: utacutie Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a fishless cycle, and if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3129 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: ghost shrimp - Part II
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Orangespotted sunfish (_leprosies Lepomis_) will grow to nearly 6" TL (tip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          of the snout to the tip of the caudal (tail)).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: highwaychilde@... [mailto:highwaychilde@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 9:43 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: ghost shrimp - Part II


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I looked at your natives pictures, very cool. I mostly keep natives
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          with one tropical tank. I believe the fish you are calling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          pumpkinseeds are orangespotted sunfish, they dont normally get much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bigger than about 3 inches. Pumpkinseeds have a red bar on the back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          of their "ear tabs" much like redear sunfish do. Your mystery fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          is some kind of darter, possibly a rainbow or orangethroat. There is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a couple of groups that deal with keeping native fish NANFA and NFC.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          NFC has a great yahoo group you should join (if you havent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          already).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          NFC = Native Fish Conservancy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          NANFA = North American Native Fish Association

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Dattilo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "captaininsane357"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <captaininsane357@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I also just snagged a bunch of ghost shrimps, and I got them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > for free ! Was down in some pond areas right off the Illinois
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > river here near Peoria looking to net some tiny sunfish and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > baby catfish and whatever I could snag, and lo and behold, I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > finding these 1/2 to 1 inch long clear shrimps !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Also snagged 2 small longnosed gars ! (2-3 inches long)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Think they are longnosed gars anyways. Very cool. Guess this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > river is making something of a comeback.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Check the 'native' folder at this link for some pics of them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.gmadhosting.com/fishpics/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Pics of my other fish are there also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Scott
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Congrats Miss Jessica,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > May I add some experience with these critters...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > The females do get eggs , under their tail a good cluster of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > greenish orbs about 0.8 - 1 mm in size . Because of their size they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > get pulled up into the filter so if you can try and put the egg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > carrying females in a low flow area or tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > If they do hatch out you'll have many, many young'ns. Good luck,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hope you have a good turn out,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > 8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > 91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > mbethke@s...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > From: jess_babs_07
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:48 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Hey everybody, I just wanted to say that today i am now the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          proud
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > owner of 11 ghost shrimp. I went to the store and they had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          alot,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > so i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > bought 10 but instead i got 11. i have 4 of them that have eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > them. hopefully more are females and they will i guess i could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > lay eggs. so now i currently have 14 ghost shrimp in all. now i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > have to look to hard when i look in my tank to see atleast some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > shrimp.lol.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ----------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Service.






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3130 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ah, well, I had better stick to my original solution...I squish them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          against the side of the glass. The tetras and guppies and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          beta...heck all the fish seem to LOVE it when I do that. It has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          gotten to where I can put my hand in the tank, and they swarm around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my hand, bumping against me and following my fingers to the snails to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          get the first bite of squishcargo Bleh.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3131 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, if you do not have any anabantids in the tank that may be building a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bubble nest, the foam could be the result of a high organic load in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank. Failing the bubble nest test would mean it is time for a water change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you have not been doing water changes once a week, and you probably have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          not to generate a high organic load, just do a 10% change as soon as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          possible, then do another in a couple of days, followed by a third a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          days later. Clean your filter with the first one, and again with subsequent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water changes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you are using activated carbon in your tank--remove it. It may have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          passed its useful life and is spewing stuff back into the water column.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Reserve its use to removing medications from the water column when treating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fish in a hospital tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Also take a look at the load in your tank. You do not say what size it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          nor list the populations of the tank. You may need to do a bit of weeding to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          get the load in your tank down a bit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Once you have established a regular weekly water change schedule, 10% should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          be enough each week, though I kind of like to do 20% water changes to keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ahead of the evil compounds that will build up over time in a tank, with an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          occasional 50% or larger change.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: muskie4817 [mailto:muskie4817@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foamy bubbles?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I just got home from work and looked at my tank and noticed what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          looks like foamy bubbles on the top of my water and along side the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          glass in one part of my tank. Any ideas as to what is causing this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and how to get rid of it?






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3132 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          definately cycle your tank first without fish... i think they say 3 to 5 days but after 2 my water tested great.. but then i used totally filtered water to begin with... you totoally should cyle first.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3133 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Starting Right With Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've been reading this list for a while now, interjecting when I can and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          thread is still fresh. What follows is the first in a number of messages I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          am planning to write over the next few months, as I have time, and when the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          motivation strikes me. This first message contains information I would tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          someone who is considering getting into the hobby, but has not taken the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          first steps yet. It will serve as a review for most people on this list, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          may help some reconsider how they are going about getting started as an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          aquarist.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          First, a little bit about myself. I was fortunate--or unlucky--enough to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          born into a family of fishkeepers. My paternal grandmother had an aquarium,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my father kept aquariums, and I guess I carry the gene as well. So, one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          might say that I've been keeping fish all my life. However, that would be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          slight misrepresentation as I really did not get a start in actually keeping
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my own fish until I was about 10 years old, some forty plus years ago. Since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          then I have kept all kinds of freshwater and brackish fish, including
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          building and maintaining several ponds. I'd be lying if I told you, or left
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you with the impression, that I have done this continuously. I haven't. In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fact, I am in a down period right now due to my work schedule, which simply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          does not leave me the time to keep fish properly. I am, however, looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          forward to starting again sometime in the near future. I am, however, still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          involved in some ways with the hobby. I am a subscriber to several lists,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          occasionally participate in local club activities, do occasionally speak
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          locally, and still do judge the occasional show. I also go to several
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          workshops a year.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Now, on to the meat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The first thing you should do is read about keeping fish and become familiar
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          with the requirements of the hobby. Lists, such as this one, may be a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          place to supplement your reading, and utilizing them to make sure you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          understand the various topics that your reading has covered is the best use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          of this medium as you are just starting out. Let's face it, the nitrogen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cycle looks real simple on paper, but in practice, it is nearly an entirely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          different creature, and you MUST have a good basic understanding of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cycle to do well in keeping fish. Some books I recommend that you read are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the setting up your aquarium types in the TFH Publishing KW series--they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          inexpensive ($6-8) and are somewhat accurate. Barrons Publishing has a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          couple of fairly decent inexpensive books whose titles start with "A
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Practical Guide to". A very good book is the Baensch _Aquarium Atlas, Volume
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1_. There are more in the series and I believe they total 6 volumes now (not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          all translated yet from the German). Pick up a couple of the magazines to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          give yourself an idea of what you may be in for. "Aquarium Fish Magazine"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (AFM), "Freshwater and Marine Aquarium" (FAMA), and "Tropical Fish Hobbyist"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (TFH) are the ones to look for. I'd rate AFM as probably the best all around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          magazine, FAMA is more for those who are a bit more advanced in the hobby,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and TFH is a bit hard to really classify, though I've not seen an issue for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a while, and they may have changed, especially under the new ownership.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Don't forget to check around a bit on the Internet as well. One site that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          has good information is The Krib. It can be found at http://www.thekrib.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There are also a good number of good sites to go to for information, but you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          should check the opinions of those on the lists before you decide who to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          trust and who not to as there is a lot of junk out there as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Don't forget to check around to see if there is a local club in your area.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You might want to attend a meeting or two to help you out. <Self
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          promotion>Follow the first link in my tag below for a partial listing of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          available clubs and societies and links to other stuff as well.</Self
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          promotion>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Once you have decided to take the plunge, start planning for it. Look around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          your dwelling to decide on a location for the aquarium. Keep in mind that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the large the tank you can get, the better off you are. More water means
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          more time to correct your mistakes (within limits) and means that you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          more likely to be successful from the start. The 10 gallon starter kits that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they sell in the stores are really not a good starter kit. The tanks are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          simply too small, and the equipment that comes with it is normally far from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          first rate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ask on any lists you might have joined, as well as the local club, about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the equipment that is trusted. Also find yourself a local fish store (LFS)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          to help you out. Unlike the chains, these guys, for the most part, know what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they are doing and will be glad to help you out. Once you have established a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          relationship, buy from the guy--just don't pump him for information and run
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          to the local PetsDumb for the lower prices. Knowledge costs money and that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          is reflected in the LFS pricing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The first step would be to buy some test kits to test your water. get a pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          test kit, an ammonia test kit, and a nitrate and nitrite test kit. Many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          manufacturers sell a group of test kits as a package, with a reduced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          pricing. Look for a test kit that has the powdered reagents and are labeled
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          with an expiration date. I have found the Kordon test kits to be the easiest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          to use and read. Make sure the ammonia test kit uses salicylate reagents and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          not Nessler reagents. This will be explained later.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Now that you have the test kits, test your water. Test the water straight
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          from the tap, after you have let it run a bit, and then test a sample of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water after you have let it sit for about 24 hours. Depending on your water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          supply, some reading may change in this period of time. This second reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          is closer to what you will experience in the aquarium once you have it set
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          up. Those of you who are on a municipal water system can call the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          supplier and request a report that lists the readings that they get when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they test the water. Their readings may not agree with yours due to several
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          factors, but they should be fairly close. Also inquire if they treat the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water with just chlorine or if they use a combination of chemicals commonly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          referred to as chloramines. This later is important, as it will determine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          what water conditioning agents you may need to purchase to treat your water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Now, based on your readings, you can start to determine which fish you may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          want to keep. You now know the pH of your water. try to chose fish that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          normally live in waters that have a pH close to yours. Most fish will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          survive in nearly any pH you chose to give it, but, in order for them to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          thrive, they need a pH close to their natural home. Yes, you can tinker with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          your water chemistry, however, no mater how hard people try to push this on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you to keep fish that are not compatible with your pH, it seldom works for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the best. There are simply too many other things that combine to make the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water right for certain groups of fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Next time we will cover getting the tank and setting it up. Feel free to ask
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          any questions based on this information at any time, but realize that it may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          take some time for me to get back to you, because I may not see your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          question for several days.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3134 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: (no subject)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cycling your tank DOES NTO TAKE ONLY 3-5 DAYS!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the notrogen cycle takes 4-6 weeks to completely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cycle. do not stock your tank until after you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          observed your spikes at 3-4 weeks. if you use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fishless or not it is up to your personal belief on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          which is better, but unless you want to throw money
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          away, don't stock with fish that you intend to keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          until after the cycle.





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3135 From: paul helms Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          if you want to do a fishless cycle, all you need to do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          is to add a little stress zyme on the 1st 7th and 14th
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          days. lights out and filters running. it is that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          simple.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- utacutie <utacutie@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fishless cycle, and if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3136 From: Angela Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hiya again,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I keep 8 - 4 inch clown loaches with 4 cories in my discus tank! My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ph is 6.5 and my hardness is 107. I think that the hardness has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          something to do with clown loaches, because when they were in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          other tank in harder water, they didnt do as well. The loaches and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cories swim around in a 55 gal, they do not even notice each other!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thats my 2 cents worth!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ang


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > has anyone else ever had a problem keeping clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > loaches with cori cats?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3137 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: plecs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          My BN plecs share the bottom with either cories and/or loaches, depending on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the tank. I break up algae discs for my bottom feeders and I know my plecs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          will eat those. They also have quite a fondness for broccoli.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Theresa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i disagree with the statement about plecos having to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > be fed alternative foods. i have never had to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > suplememnt my plecos, they have always done great with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > algae and left over flake that hits the bottom. never
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > lost one yet, but have had to exchange for smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3138 From: Patrick Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I vote for fishless, with bio spira if you can find it.  That would do it in a day or two.  But I hear bio spira is impossible to find.  Don't buy it out of date or unrefridgerated.  The other choice that I person I know has tested is called Fritz Zyme.  You might find it somewhere online for sale if it isn't sold near you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Good luck!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a fishless cycle, and if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3139 From: dave Date: 7/3/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a fishless cycle, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The only product that i have used that worked was bio spira the rest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is junk that includes cycle and any non refridgerated cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            product. All that said if you can get hold of good established filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            material you can instant cycle a tank I do it all the time -Dave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3140 From: utacutie Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know I need to cycle first before adding all of the fish, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            was wondering if I should do the fishless cycle where you add an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            artificial source of ammonia but don't add fish or the one where you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            put a few fish in and let it cycle that way. Which is better??


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > definately cycle your tank first without fish... i think they say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3 to 5 days
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > but after 2 my water tested great.. but then i used totally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            filtered water to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > begin with... you totoally should cyle first.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3141 From: jlwright72601 Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Plant disease problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi All, I'm new to the group and would like to ask a question. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            have a plant that has large leaves that has holes in the leaves and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is forming black edges on the leaves. It also has hairy looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            black things that seem to be growing from the edges of the leaves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It is getting gross looking and I need to find out what is causing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it. This is a 46 gallon tank and only about a month old. A couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            other plants have some brown areas forming also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3142 From: big_animal_luver Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Aquatic Turtles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi All,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am in immediate need of help, advice, whatever you can give!! My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            female turtle has laid eggs and I'm not sure if I am incubating them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            properly. Please respond asap...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3143 From: Peter T Davies Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Hello form a complete beginner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hello everyone

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm a complete newbie to the hobby. I'm just about to buy a Juwel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Trigon 190L tank (about 40 gallons?), as the dimensions and layout
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (doors, windows, etc.) of our lounge mean we need a corner tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've done some research about setting up your first tank. However, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            would still value some advice about what fish to get, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            _especially_ in what order to introduce them to the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Obviously I'm looking for fish suitable for a beginner, but my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            daughter is very keen that I include some neon tetra. If you could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            include (6-8?) of those in your suggestions I'd be very grateful,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            especially as the books say that some of the larger fish - and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            would like a few bigger fish - prey on this species. Would flying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            foxes be likely to eat the tetra?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm a Brit, living in the NW of England, by the way. Thanks in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            anticipation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Peter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3144 From: bryants4god Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Aquatic Turtles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am a member of this turtle forum, you might be able to find info there tonight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: big_animal_luver [mailto:big_animal_luver@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 11:32 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Aquatic Turtles

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi All,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am in immediate need of help, advice, whatever you can give!!  My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            female turtle has laid eggs and I'm not sure if I am incubating them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            properly. Please respond asap...




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3145 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            try to mix up your levels, usually anything with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mouth large enough to swallow your smallest fish will.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            there are obviously exceptions but it is a good rule
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of thumb. i would suggest dwarf gourami and hatchet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish for the top and mid layers, neons and cardinals
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for the mid range, and cori cats/ loaches for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bottom layer. if you stay with a little more peaceful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish you can always add in african frogs (fully
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aquatic, they only need a slight gap at the top to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            catch their breath) as well. for the bottom feeders,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i am partial to kuhli loaches and cori cats myself.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            pictus cats are really nice looking too, but there is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a chance that they may eat neons when they get larger.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the gourami can be a bit tempermental, but are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            usually bad.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- Peter T Davies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <ptd99uk@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hello everyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I'm a complete newbie to the hobby. I'm just about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to buy a Juwel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Trigon 190L tank (about 40 gallons?), as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > dimensions and layout
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > (doors, windows, etc.) of our lounge mean we need a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > corner tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I've done some research about setting up your first
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank. However, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > would still value some advice about what fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > get, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > _especially_ in what order to introduce them to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Obviously I'm looking for fish suitable for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > beginner, but my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > daughter is very keen that I include some neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tetra. If you could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > include (6-8?) of those in your suggestions I'd be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > very grateful,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > especially as the books say that some of the larger
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > fish - and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > would like a few bigger fish - prey on this species.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Would flying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > foxes be likely to eat the tetra?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I'm a Brit, living in the NW of England, by the way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > anticipation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Peter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3146 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Plant disease problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the stringy black part ismore than likely alagae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            there are a few fish that eat the string algae, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            others can give you the name. it is a natural filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for your tank but can block light from your plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            some fish do like to nibble at leaves also.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- jlwright72601 <jlwright@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hi All, I'm new to the group and would like to ask a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > question. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > have a plant that has large leaves that has holes in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the leaves and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is forming black edges on the leaves. It also has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > hairy looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > black things that seem to be growing from the edges
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > of the leaves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > It is getting gross looking and I need to find out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > what is causing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > it. This is a 46 gallon tank and only about a month
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > old. A couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > other plants have some brown areas forming also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Jim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3147 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it is really up to you, i personally have had much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            better end results (6 months down the line) with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fishless cycle. as i said before, i only use stress
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            zyme.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- utacutie <utacutie@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I know I need to cycle first before adding all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the fish, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > was wondering if I should do the fishless cycle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > where you add an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > artificial source of ammonia but don't add fish or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the one where you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > put a few fish in and let it cycle that way. Which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is better??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > definately cycle your tank first without fish... i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > think they say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 3 to 5 days
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > but after 2 my water tested great.. but then i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > used totally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > filtered water to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > begin with... you totoally should cyle first..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3148 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Um Cultivo bem sucedido de Bananinha - Sequência (1) (bananas FAR
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In AquaBahia Bananas farm (a lot of pics) Part 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (Um cultivo bem sucedido de Ninphoides aquatica) realizada por Eduardo e Yuri.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3149 From: joegum Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Goldfish and snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks. It sounds like the gf's were trying to eat the snails but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            couldn't get throught the shells. I wonder oif they might have better
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            luck with the softer shelled pond snails. -joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3150 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i have 5 neons in my tank and the only one that bothers them is the dominant one lol.. but they have always recouped if they have nippped at their tails or what not... i also have 3 bleeding heart tetras which are cool cuase they really have a heart on the side of them.. i woudl suggest hatchet fish of some sort.. cuase they are cool in that they jump sometimes which is cool and they stay right on top so they balance out your tank... which i really like... i would add a few cat fishes like corys an albino, spotted and panda one i have.. the panada is so cute.. jsut like a bear... also a algea eater... my tank has never had a dirty day not sure why but i am not complaining... those are they basics i woudl start with.. i have a 20 gallon with that and more i would definately introde a group like that frist and then when you do more make sure there are atleast 2 of a same breed and atleast 4 all together kinda makes it so they wont pick on just one new one... also make sure from where you are getting the fish that their water or plants if you buy any are snail free.. as the previous thread we have been talking about snail infestations which are not fun in most opinions.... hope that helps.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hello everyone

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm a complete newbie to the hobby. I'm just about to buy a Juwel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Trigon 190L tank (about 40 gallons?), as the dimensions and layout
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (doors, windows, etc.) of our lounge mean we need a corner tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've done some research about setting up your first tank. However, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            would still value some advice about what fish to get, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            _especially_ in what order to introduce them to the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Obviously I'm looking for fish suitable for a beginner, but my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            daughter is very keen that I include some neon tetra. If you could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            include (6-8?) of those in your suggestions I'd be very grateful,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            especially as the books say that some of the larger fish - and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            would like a few bigger fish - prey on this species. Would flying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            foxes be likely to eat the tetra?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm a Brit, living in the NW of England, by the way. Thanks in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            anticipation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Peter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3151 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: forgot to add Hello form a complete beginner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a grourami works nice with those and adds some color and beauty too... i have a dwarf blue one... but i know there are lots of kinds . shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hello everyone

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm a complete newbie to the hobby. I'm just about to buy a Juwel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Trigon 190L tank (about 40 gallons?), as the dimensions and layout
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (doors, windows, etc.) of our lounge mean we need a corner tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've done some research about setting up your first tank. However, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            would still value some advice about what fish to get, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            _especially_ in what order to introduce them to the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Obviously I'm looking for fish suitable for a beginner, but my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            daughter is very keen that I include some neon tetra. If you could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            include (6-8?) of those in your suggestions I'd be very grateful,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            especially as the books say that some of the larger fish - and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            would like a few bigger fish - prey on this species. Would flying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            foxes be likely to eat the tetra?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm a Brit, living in the NW of England, by the way. Thanks in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            anticipation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Peter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3152 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            yep i totally agree.. we have the same likes... i have 3 aquatic frogs and besides my panada catfish they are my fav.. they are so active and cute..... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to mix up your levels, usually anything with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mouth large enough to swallow your smallest fish will.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            there are obviously exceptions but it is a good rule
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of thumb.  i would suggest dwarf gourami and hatchet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish for the top and mid layers, neons and cardinals
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for the mid range, and cori cats/ loaches for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bottom layer.  if you stay with a little more peaceful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish you can always add in african frogs (fully
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aquatic, they only need a slight gap at the top to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            catch their breath) as well.  for the bottom feeders,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i am partial to kuhli loaches and cori cats myself.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            pictus cats are really nice looking too, but there is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a chance that they may eat neons when they get larger.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the gourami can be a bit tempermental, but are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            usually bad.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3153 From: muskie4817 Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have a 40 gallon tank with 5 platy's, 6 bloodfin tetras, 2 dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            neon rainbowfish and 2 cory cats. I just did a 25% water change a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            week ago. I have not put any medication in the water. My filter is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a Marineland Emperor 400 and when I changed the water last week, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            changed the filter but not the media. I had placed their carbon,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ammonia mix in the media cartridge. I will try to change it to see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if that helps. My tank has only been set up for 5 weeks.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <stevesz@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Well, if you do not have any anabantids in the tank that may be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            building a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bubble nest, the foam could be the result of a high organic load
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank. Failing the bubble nest test would mean it is time for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            water change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > If you have not been doing water changes once a week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            probably have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > not to generate a high organic load, just do a 10% change as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > possible, then do another in a couple of days, followed by a third
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > days later. Clean your filter with the first one, and again with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            subsequent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water changes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > If you are using activated carbon in your tank--remove it. It may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > passed its useful life and is spewing stuff back into the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            column.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Reserve its use to removing medications from the water column when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            treating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > fish in a hospital tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Also take a look at the load in your tank. You do not say what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            size it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > nor list the populations of the tank. You may need to do a bit of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            weeding to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > get the load in your tank down a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Once you have established a regular weekly water change schedule,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            10% should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > be enough each week, though I kind of like to do 20% water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ahead of the evil compounds that will build up over time in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank, with an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > occasional 50% or larger change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > From: muskie4817 [mailto:muskie4817@y...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I just got home from work and looked at my tank and noticed what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > looks like foamy bubbles on the top of my water and along side the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > glass in one part of my tank. Any ideas as to what is causing this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and how to get rid of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3154 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you are doing too much to soon to that tank. at 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            weeks, it is too early to be stocking fish, so slow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            down on the cleanings and stocking to letthe tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            catch up to itself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- muskie4817 <muskie4817@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I have a 40 gallon tank with 5 platy's, 6 bloodfin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tetras, 2 dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > neon rainbowfish and 2 cory cats. I just did a 25%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water change a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > week ago. I have not put any medication in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water. My filter is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a Marineland Emperor 400 and when I changed the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water last week, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > changed the filter but not the media. I had placed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > their carbon,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ammonia mix in the media cartridge. I will try to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > change it to see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > if that helps. My tank has only been set up for 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > <stevesz@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Well, if you do not have any anabantids in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank that may be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > building a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > bubble nest, the foam could be the result of a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > high organic load
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > tank. Failing the bubble nest test would mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is time for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > If you have not been doing water changes once a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > probably have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > not to generate a high organic load, just do a 10%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > change as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > possible, then do another in a couple of days,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > followed by a third
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > days later. Clean your filter with the first one,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and again with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > subsequent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > water changes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > If you are using activated carbon in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank--remove it. It may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > passed its useful life and is spewing stuff back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > into the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > column.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Reserve its use to removing medications from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water column when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > treating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > fish in a hospital tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Also take a look at the load in your tank. You do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > not say what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > size it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > nor list the populations of the tank. You may need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to do a bit of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > weeding to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > get the load in your tank down a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Once you have established a regular weekly water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > change schedule,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 10% should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > be enough each week, though I kind of like to do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 20% water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > ahead of the evil compounds that will build up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > over time in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank, with an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > occasional 50% or larger change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > From: muskie4817 [mailto:muskie4817@y...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foamy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > I just got home from work and looked at my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and noticed what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > looks like foamy bubbles on the top of my water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and along side the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > glass in one part of my tank. Any ideas as to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > what is causing this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > and how to get rid of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3155 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            they absolutely would. i was a ble to gorow a 1/2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            inch feeder to a 3 12 inch comet in a matter of a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            month feeding them 20-30 ramshorn snails a day. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goldfish won't pull them off of the glass, but they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tend to eat anything falling or on the bottom


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- joegum <joegum@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks. It sounds like the gf's were trying to eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the snails but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > couldn't get throught the shells. I wonder oif
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > they might have better
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > luck with the softer shelled pond snails. -joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3156 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Goldfish and snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mine would spit even the little babies back out if they picked them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            up in the rocks. but those where trumpets not ramshorns


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > they absolutely would. i was a ble to gorow a 1/2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > inch feeder to a 3 12 inch comet in a matter of a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > month feeding them 20-30 ramshorn snails a day. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > goldfish won't pull them off of the glass, but they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tend to eat anything falling or on the bottom
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- joegum <joegum@v...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Thanks. It sounds like the gf's were trying to eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > the snails but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > couldn't get throught the shells. I wonder oif
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > they might have better
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > luck with the softer shelled pond snails. -joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3157 From: Elyse Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Expand your tropical fish hobby or go right into commercial pro
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hey there. Wondering if u sold this already?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.elyserachel.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ripley's page: http://www.dogster.com/dog_page.php?j=t&i=36163

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            AIM: ElyseRachel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            MSN: ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yahoo: ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The Tropical Fish Connection:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            PetFinder:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.petfinder.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: floridaguy40s [mailto:floridaguy32118@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 1:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Expand your tropical fish hobby or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            go right into commercial production...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            For immediate sale;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            We have 30- 10 gallon tanks, 5- 20 gallon tanks, all are drilled with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            commercial bulkhead fittings, and overflow/stem pipes. 3- 55 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tanks, undrilled. Perfect for all imaginable tropical fish set ups
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            from hobbyist, stores and commercial production. All in excellent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            condition. We will include all pvc plumbing, etc, and even all wood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            racks if requested.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This wont last. $800. cash or best immediate offer. Pick up in Daytona
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Beach, Florida area. Or will arrange shipping/delivery at cost for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            serious buyers.






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/join

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            stop by and see ~ membership is free!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3158 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have 2 clowns in my 30, with 3 barbs, 2 angels, 2 black fins.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I enjoy my clowns. And thier name be fitting, they are witty,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            clownish. And always goffin around. But... When I got them (4 months
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ago) they were both around a 1 1/2 inchs. One of them is growing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            great and his color is bright, he is around 3 inchs. And the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            has only grown about 1/2 a inch, color isn't as bright (still very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            active ) just doesn't seem to be thriving like the other.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This also happen wtih the barbs. I got 4 and 3 only thrived, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            about 4 months after I got them one died. But the other 3 are doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            great. If I can keep them alive. Same water conditions and same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            feeding conditions. It makes me think it must be that the 4th ( the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            unthriving fish) has somthing going on inside of it. I just don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Maybe this is natures way of saying only the strong will survive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3159 From: utacutie Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Where could I get the established filter material at? Also do they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            sell any of these products at stores? We have a Petsmart, Petland
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and a few other places around here.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "dave"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <frbstrd@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a fishless cycle,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > The only product that i have used that worked was bio spira the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            rest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is junk that includes cycle and any non refridgerated cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > product. All that said if you can get hold of good established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > material you can instant cycle a tank I do it all the time -Dave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3160 From: utacutie Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I found out that Fritz Zyme's main office is in Mesquite, TX, about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            30 min from here. Do you think it's worth it to make the trip and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            get it or not?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "dave"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <frbstrd@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a fishless cycle,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > The only product that i have used that worked was bio spira the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            rest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is junk that includes cycle and any non refridgerated cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > product. All that said if you can get hold of good established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > material you can instant cycle a tank I do it all the time -Dave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3161 From: utacutie Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Is this it? http://www.fritzpet.com/nitrifying_bacteria_main.html


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I vote for fishless, with bio spira if you can find it. That
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            would do it in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a day or two. But I hear bio spira is impossible to find. Don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            buy it out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > of date or unrefridgerated. The other choice that I person I know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tested is called Fritz Zyme. You might find it somewhere online
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for sale if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > it isn't sold near you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Good luck!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a fishless cycle, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3162 From: muskie4817 Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I was only going by what I have been reading and the tests I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            done. At 3 weeks, all my tests came back good so I got more fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My filter guide said to change the water after the first 2 weeks and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            then every month after that. I am so confused because other people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            say to change your water 10% every week and others have said to not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            change it yet.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > you are doing too much to soon to that tank. at 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > weeks, it is too early to be stocking fish, so slow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > down on the cleanings and stocking to letthe tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > catch up to itself.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- muskie4817 <muskie4817@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > I have a 40 gallon tank with 5 platy's, 6 bloodfin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > tetras, 2 dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > neon rainbowfish and 2 cory cats. I just did a 25%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > water change a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > week ago. I have not put any medication in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > water. My filter is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > a Marineland Emperor 400 and when I changed the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > water last week, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > changed the filter but not the media. I had placed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > their carbon,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > ammonia mix in the media cartridge. I will try to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > change it to see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > if that helps. My tank has only been set up for 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > <stevesz@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > Well, if you do not have any anabantids in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > tank that may be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > building a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > bubble nest, the foam could be the result of a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > high organic load
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > tank. Failing the bubble nest test would mean it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > is time for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > water change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > If you have not been doing water changes once a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > probably have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > not to generate a high organic load, just do a 10%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > change as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > possible, then do another in a couple of days,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > followed by a third
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > days later. Clean your filter with the first one,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > and again with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > subsequent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > water changes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > If you are using activated carbon in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > tank--remove it. It may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > passed its useful life and is spewing stuff back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > into the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > column.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > Reserve its use to removing medications from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > water column when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > treating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > fish in a hospital tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > Also take a look at the load in your tank. You do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > not say what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > size it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > nor list the populations of the tank. You may need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > to do a bit of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > weeding to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > get the load in your tank down a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > Once you have established a regular weekly water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > change schedule,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > 10% should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > be enough each week, though I kind of like to do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > 20% water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > to keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > ahead of the evil compounds that will build up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > over time in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > tank, with an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > occasional 50% or larger change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > From: muskie4817 [mailto:muskie4817@y...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foamy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > I just got home from work and looked at my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > and noticed what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > looks like foamy bubbles on the top of my water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > and along side the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > glass in one part of my tank. Any ideas as to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > what is causing this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > and how to get rid of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3163 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have two neon tetras which are not acting funny, but are rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            suddenly...pale...they look like someone dipped them in a vat of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bleach...the colors are still there, but washed out. It isn't ick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            as far as I can tell, no patches, or distended scales, they aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            acting sick at all, they're just pale. Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3164 From: Sarah Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Our 4 clowns do fine with everything they are about 2 1/2 - 3 in and in the tank with them are guppy babies that are about 4mm long and thye don't bother them 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: 07/03/04 15:16:25
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snails and clown loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Okay, You've about sold me...how do those loaches do in a tank full
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of little guys, like tetras and guppies?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3165 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lights on?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I have two neon tetras which are not acting funny,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > but are rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > suddenly...pale...they look like someone dipped them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > in a vat of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bleach...the colors are still there, but washed out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > It isn't ick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > as far as I can tell, no patches, or distended
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > scales, they aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > acting sick at all, they're just pale. Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3166 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            every time tyou change water before the tank is fully
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cycled, you are removing the bacteria that you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            trying to grow.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- muskie4817 <muskie4817@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I was only going by what I have been reading and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tests I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > done. At 3 weeks, all my tests came back good so I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > got more fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > My filter guide said to change the water after the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > first 2 weeks and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > then every month after that. I am so confused
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > because other people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > say to change your water 10% every week and others
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > have said to not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > change it yet.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > you are doing too much to soon to that tank. at 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > weeks, it is too early to be stocking fish, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > slow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > down on the cleanings and stocking to letthe tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > catch up to itself.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > --- muskie4817 <muskie4817@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > I have a 40 gallon tank with 5 platy's, 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bloodfin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > tetras, 2 dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > neon rainbowfish and 2 cory cats. I just did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 25%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > water change a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > week ago. I have not put any medication in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > water. My filter is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > a Marineland Emperor 400 and when I changed the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > water last week, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > changed the filter but not the media. I had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > placed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > their carbon,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > ammonia mix in the media cartridge. I will try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > change it to see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > if that helps. My tank has only been set up for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > <stevesz@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > Well, if you do not have any anabantids in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > tank that may be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > building a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > bubble nest, the foam could be the result of a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > high organic load
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > tank. Failing the bubble nest test would mean
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > is time for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > water change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > If you have not been doing water changes once
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > probably have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > not to generate a high organic load, just do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 10%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > change as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > possible, then do another in a couple of days,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > followed by a third
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > days later. Clean your filter with the first
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > one,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > and again with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > subsequent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > water changes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > If you are using activated carbon in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > tank--remove it. It may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > passed its useful life and is spewing stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > into the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > column.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > Reserve its use to removing medications from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > water column when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > treating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > fish in a hospital tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > Also take a look at the load in your tank. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > not say what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > size it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > nor list the populations of the tank. You may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > to do a bit of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > weeding to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > get the load in your tank down a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > Once you have established a regular weekly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > change schedule,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > 10% should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > be enough each week, though I kind of like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > 20% water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > to keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > ahead of the evil compounds that will build up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > over time in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > tank, with an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > occasional 50% or larger change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > From: muskie4817 [mailto:muskie4817@y...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > To:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Foamy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > I just got home from work and looked at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > and noticed what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > looks like foamy bubbles on the top of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > and along side the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > glass in one part of my tank. Any ideas as to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > what is causing this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > and how to get rid of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > providers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3167 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if you could find stress zyme closer i would use that,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            other wise get what you can where you can.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- utacutie <utacutie@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I found out that Fritz Zyme's main office is in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Mesquite, TX, about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 30 min from here. Do you think it's worth it to make
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the trip and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > get it or not?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > "dave"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > <frbstrd@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > fishless cycle,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > The only product that i have used that worked was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bio spira the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > rest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > is junk that includes cycle and any non
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > refridgerated cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > product. All that said if you can get hold of good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > material you can instant cycle a tank I do it all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the time -Dave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3168 From: wil Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: about water testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ive posted here once and you were all very helpful, thank you. this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            may disgust some people, but ive never tested my water. i bought a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            kit today because i want to switch my one tank from goldfish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cichlids. i understand that cichlids require a higher ph level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            here is the result of my test:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            no+ 200
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            no- 1.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gh 300
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            kh 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ph 6.2

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mind you i was due for a partial water change which i immediately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            executed upon the test, so im gonna test it again later. i also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bought an 8.2 ph treatment to prepare for the cichlids. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            questions are:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1.should i add the ph treatment while the goldfish are still in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2.are cichlids hyper sensitive to any of the other chemical levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            or primarily ph?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            thank you very much for helping an amatuer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wil

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            p.s. any opinions on those ecplipse set ups? i was thinking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            getting one for kicks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3169 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: about water testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Greetings,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            You may find this link of use:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/cichlids1/l/blthumbcich.htm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This site provides general information about several species of cichlids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hope this helps.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gary

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: "wil" <lionel_richie666@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 6:20 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] about water testing


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ive posted here once and you were all very helpful, thank you. this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > may disgust some people, but ive never tested my water. i bought a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kit today because i want to switch my one tank from goldfish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cichlids. i understand that cichlids require a higher ph level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > here is the result of my test:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no+ 200
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no- 1.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gh 300
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kh 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ph 6.2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > mind you i was due for a partial water change which i immediately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > executed upon the test, so im gonna test it again later. i also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bought an 8.2 ph treatment to prepare for the cichlids. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > questions are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 1.should i add the ph treatment while the goldfish are still in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2.are cichlids hyper sensitive to any of the other chemical levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > or primarily ph?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > thank you very much for helping an amatuer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > p.s. any opinions on those ecplipse set ups? i was thinking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > getting one for kicks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3170 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: about water testing

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     I don't know how you plan on changing fish-tanks, or even if you're planning on moving your goldfish to another tank, but if goldfish require a PH level other that the 8.2 you're planning for your Cichlids, there's no sense subjecting them to an unecessary PH change if they're being moved to another tank. If you plan to keep the Goldfish with the Cichlids, subjecting them to a sudden PH change of 2 degrees could kill or injure them. Making a PH change to accomodate the Cichlids, while the Goldfish are in the aquarium should be done over a number of days, and if you're chomping at the bit  and hell bent on a consumer wanna-scale to get the Cichs' in there, you're gonna make the GF's sick or dead.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               People in this list who know about buffering would be much better prepared to inform you as to what's necessary for PH stablization.  Someone once told me that PH changes should be done at the rate of .1 ( 1/10th ) degree per day if memory serves me correctly. My memory may be wrong, but a sudden PH change is not something to do in any situation, except in some imaginable emergency, something which you're not facing. Another thing is that the chemicals you use should be diluted as much as possible, and added to the tank in sich a way that the distribution is absolutely adequately mixed to the point that the fish are not disturbed by the change.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ive posted here once and you were all very helpful, thank you. this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > may disgust some people, but ive never tested my water. i bought a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kit today because i want to switch my one tank from goldfish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cichlids. i understand that cichlids require a higher ph level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > here is the result of my test:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no+ 200
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no- 1.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gh 300
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kh 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ph 6.2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > mind you i was due for a partial water change which i immediately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > executed upon the test, so im gonna test it again later. i also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bought an 8.2 ph treatment to prepare for the cichlids. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > questions are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 1.should i add the ph treatment while the goldfish are still in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2.are cichlids hyper sensitive to any of the other chemical levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > or primarily ph?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > thank you very much for helping an amatuer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > p.s. any opinions on those ecplipse set ups? i was thinking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > getting one for kicks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3171 From: Elyse Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sounds like u may have a high ammonia level.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.elyserachel.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ripley's page: http://www.dogster.com/dog_page.php?j=t&i=36163

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            AIM: ElyseRachel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            MSN: ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yahoo: ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The Tropical Fish Connection:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            PetFinder:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.petfinder.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:17 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] washed out neons

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lights on?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I have two neon tetras which are not acting funny,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > but are rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > suddenly...pale...they look like someone dipped them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > in a vat of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bleach...the colors are still there, but washed out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > It isn't ick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > as far as I can tell, no patches, or distended
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > scales, they aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > acting sick at all, they're just pale. Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3172 From: Angela Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: about water testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hiya,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have a 12 gal eclipse, I like it, although the filter is a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            slow!! I keep my mollies in it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ang



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "wil"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <lionel_richie666@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ive posted here once and you were all very helpful, thank you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > may disgust some people, but ive never tested my water. i bought
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kit today because i want to switch my one tank from goldfish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cichlids. i understand that cichlids require a higher ph level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > here is the result of my test:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no+ 200
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no- 1.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gh 300
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kh 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ph 6.2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > mind you i was due for a partial water change which i immediately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > executed upon the test, so im gonna test it again later. i also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bought an 8.2 ph treatment to prepare for the cichlids. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > questions are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 1.should i add the ph treatment while the goldfish are still in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2.are cichlids hyper sensitive to any of the other chemical levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > or primarily ph?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > thank you very much for helping an amatuer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > p.s. any opinions on those ecplipse set ups? i was thinking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > getting one for kicks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3173 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: about water testing

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Something I forgot in my last post was that the only PH relating to Goldfish I could find was 7.7 in Dr Axelrods' Atlas, and temperature was 19 C.  (When I had Goldfish in a 70 Gallon tank (2), I kept the PH at around 7, and did'nt believe I could afford 3 to $700 for a water-chiller to keep them cool, which was probably one of the reasons I sold or gave them away to an LFS, and sold my tank and stand/paraphernalia to another dealer.)  I'm also wondering if those two species are compatable, since both could grow large-enough to cause territorial probs, if territoriality is'nt alreadt a large part of the Cichlids temperament. . From what I've heard Goldfish are much less aggressive than Cichlids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ive posted here once and you were all very helpful, thank you. this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > may disgust some people, but ive never tested my water. i bought a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kit today because i want to switch my one tank from goldfish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cichlids. i understand that cichlids require a higher ph level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > here is the result of my test:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no+ 200
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no- 1.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gh 300
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kh 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ph 6.2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > mind you i was due for a partial water change which i immediately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > executed upon the test, so im gonna test it again later. i also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bought an 8.2 ph treatment to prepare for the cichlids. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > questions are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 1.should i add the ph treatment while the goldfish are still in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2.are cichlids hyper sensitive to any of the other chemical levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > or primarily ph?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > thank you very much for helping an amatuer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > p.s. any opinions on those ecplipse set ups? i was thinking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > getting one for kicks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3174 From: questnjurny Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyone have any opinions on filters? We are looking for a new hang on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the back type, and are looking at the wet/dry filters. Are they any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            good, or should i go with the basic design (such as the aqua clear?).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am looking at getting a 55-75 gal tank for an oscar, so would need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a filter to accomodate that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3175 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Anyone know about catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi Melaine,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            They look cute from the photo u have posted..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- iloveguppies <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > i have 10 fresh water catfish. they are under a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > inch big, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > came from a creek, we thought they where tadpoles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > till we put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > clear water. they seem to love fish food and are so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cute i am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > posting a picture under melanie's pics. any info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > anyone can share
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > would be appreciated thanks. Melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3176 From: wil Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: about water testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            joe p

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i wasnt planning on mixing the goldfish and cichlids. i have a pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in which to put the gold fish in. i do have a pleco i was planning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            on keeping in there though. thanks for your replies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wil






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Something I forgot in my last post was that the only PH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            relating to Goldfish I could find was 7.7 in Dr Axelrods' Atlas, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            temperature was 19 C. (When I had Goldfish in a 70 Gallon tank (2),
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I kept the PH at around 7, and did'nt believe I could afford 3 to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            $700 for a water-chiller to keep them cool, which was probably one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of the reasons I sold or gave them away to an LFS, and sold my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and stand/paraphernalia to another dealer.) I'm also wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            those two species are compatable, since both could grow large-enough
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to cause territorial probs, if territoriality is'nt alreadt a large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            part of the Cichlids temperament. . From what I've heard Goldfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are much less aggressive than Cichlids.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > ive posted here once and you were all very helpful, thank you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > may disgust some people, but ive never tested my water. i bought
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > kit today because i want to switch my one tank from goldfish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > cichlids. i understand that cichlids require a higher ph level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > here is the result of my test:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > no+ 200
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > no- 1.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > gh 300
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > kh 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > ph 6.2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > mind you i was due for a partial water change which i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            immediately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > executed upon the test, so im gonna test it again later. i also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > bought an 8.2 ph treatment to prepare for the cichlids. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > questions are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > 1.should i add the ph treatment while the goldfish are still in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > 2.are cichlids hyper sensitive to any of the other chemical
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > or primarily ph?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > thank you very much for helping an amatuer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3177 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Filters

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               I had a 20 gallon tank as a sump-reservoir for a 75 gallon tank, because I'd learned UGF's were'nt good to plants. The pre-filter, which hung on the back of the tank was a hazard to fish, since fry and adults could curiosly find themselves pulled through the siphons that directed water to a hollow-cylindrical-sponge that acted as a small colonization spot for bacteria, and a guard against fish being pulled into the hole and tube to the spray-bar that distributed water to the DLS/Polyester-coil, that was the major structure for bacterial colonization.  Back to the beginning of this letter, the pre-filter I had just happened to be small enough to allow one of those immersible, covered by a nylon-net, two pieces of rectangular plastic-with four plastic sticks that fit into four holes in each rectangle thingys/fry-protectorates, to fit over it. That little mesh-cage would keep fry and fish out of the pre-filter spillway, and could be drawn-up to about the level of the top of the  75-gallon tank. The two-little stainless-steel tabs that were for hanging the cage over the tank-side, I removed,  and looped rubber-bands (usually green) through the holes left by the rivets, and wound the other end of the bands over the plastic adjustment screws on the pre-filter to hold the basket to the maximum possible height. I don't think this rig was bad, and not being current to state of the art conversation on the subject of filters, and being a soul that thought UGF's were a good thing ( I had a 70 gallon tank with an full-bottom UGF and eventually 2 goldfish next to my trickle tank) I don't know what should be as far as filtration is concerned. Not having statistics or science about UGF's, Trickle, Bio-Wheel, etc., I feel UGF's  and Trickle filters, the size I had, offer more filter area than the bio-wheels etc., but all I have is an apparently uneducated perception .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Anyone have any opinions on filters? We are looking for a new hang on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the back type, and are looking at the wet/dry filters. Are they any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > good, or should i go with the basic design (such as the aqua clear?).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I am looking at getting a 55-75 gal tank for an oscar, so would need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a filter to accomodate that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3178 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Anyone know about catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            thank you i agree they are cute. and they are so much fun to watch
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            them eat they are little piggy's as the grow i will post some more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            pictures. today i moved them into a 10 gallon tank with a dark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            purple tube that they seem to like to swim in and few hide under.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            =:O)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hi Melaine,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > They look cute from the photo u have posted..SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- iloveguppies <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > i have 10 fresh water catfish. they are under a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > inch big, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > came from a creek, we thought they where tadpoles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > till we put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > clear water. they seem to love fish food and are so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > cute i am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > posting a picture under melanie's pics. any info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > anyone can share
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > would be appreciated thanks. Melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3179 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It might be the bubble nest formed by a Male Betta or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami in ur tank if any !!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- muskie4817 <muskie4817@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I just got home from work and looked at my tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > noticed what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > looks like foamy bubbles on the top of my water and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > along side the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > glass in one part of my tank. Any ideas as to what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is causing this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and how to get rid of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3180 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: coris and clowns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            No, i Have clown loaches and cories in my 55 gal tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            They were tank mates in my 20gal and now moved them to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my 55gal and they have been together for more than 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            years now...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > has anyone else ever had a problem keeping clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > loaches with cori cats?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3181 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i use an emperor with biowheel and i really like it. though i also use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a cannister filter (somewhat unnecessarily) as a secondary. i'm a big
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fan of overfiltration.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On Jul 4, 2004, at 10:05 PM, questnjurny wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Anyone have any opinions on filters?  We are looking for a new hang on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the back type, and are looking at the wet/dry filters.  Are they any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > good, or should i go with the basic design (such as the aqua clear?).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I am looking at getting a 55-75 gal tank for an oscar, so would need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a filter to accomodate that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3182 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/4/2004 7:08:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, questnjurny@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyone have any opinions on filters?  We are looking for a new hang on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the back type, and are looking at the wet/dry filters.  Are they any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            good, or should i go with the basic design (such as the aqua clear?).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am looking at getting a 55-75 gal tank for an oscar, so would need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a filter to accomodate that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes, I have opinions on them : )
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I like the aqua clears.  I run a 500 on a 55 and it is doing great.  I also have 150's, 200's and a 300.  I am happy with all of them.  The sponges are great and make it cheap to operate, also being able to add bags of ammocarb  or filter floss is great.  It is also good to run just the sponge especially if you are medicating the tank and don't want the carbon removing all the medication.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I do run a whisper filter on one tank, and it works ok.  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I run an emporer 400 and it works good too, but I am having problems with clogged water holes for the bio wheels.  I have had several penguin biowheel filters and they are ok as well, I do get problems with slow turning or not turning wheels and the filter carts seem to clog really quick.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If I were starting over I would get an Aqua Clear. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3183 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: I am relatively new to this and need some help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you were miserible,would you do your job? Do some research and find
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            out what's wrong. You'll find out what's bothering your fish. Most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            likely, overcrouding, but do your reading, it'll teach you much. Start
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            by buying the mags, that'll help. No freebies in this life..... Tell
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            us about your tank, like size, ammonia level, nitrites, nitrates, ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and anything else you can find out. Thanks, we're always ready to help,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            but we can't go on whisps, much like a doctor can't tell if your legs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            broke through your jeans...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3184 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            HI Peter,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Welcome to the group.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wow 40gal Corner tank is a nice choice for a beginner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Selection of fishes entirely depends on ones choice,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            so it would be better to take your daughter to several
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LFS ( Local Fish Stores ) and make a note of what she
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            likes, and check the details on the WEB.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Neon Tetras are a peaceful fish and very pretty to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            watch them. Dont go in for Convicts, angels ( if u are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            keeping neons, which are usually very small ). You can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            keep many colourful fishes like mollies, platys,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            swordtails, guppies etc etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            U can also put some cories for bottom dwellers as they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are also very peaceful fishes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The list is endless......!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As regards to introducing the fishes, first the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            needs to go thru the cycling process during which u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            can add some hardy fishes like danios (My choice ),
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            platys ( i have read on the net )..then once all the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            water parameters have spiked up and come down then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gradually add 2 fishes each then 4 fishes etc etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There are many articles on cycling a tank with or w/o
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fishes which u can find on the web.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But if u still need any clarifications then please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            feel free to post it and i am sure the many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            experienced people over here will be more than glad to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            help u out..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hope this helps..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- Peter T Davies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <ptd99uk@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hello everyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I'm a complete newbie to the hobby. I'm just about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to buy a Juwel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Trigon 190L tank (about 40 gallons?), as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > dimensions and layout
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > (doors, windows, etc.) of our lounge mean we need a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > corner tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I've done some research about setting up your first
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank. However, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > would still value some advice about what fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > get, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > _especially_ in what order to introduce them to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Obviously I'm looking for fish suitable for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > beginner, but my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > daughter is very keen that I include some neon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tetra. If you could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > include (6-8?) of those in your suggestions I'd be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > very grateful,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > especially as the books say that some of the larger
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > fish - and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > would like a few bigger fish - prey on this species.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Would flying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > foxes be likely to eat the tetra?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I'm a Brit, living in the NW of England, by the way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > anticipation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Peter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3185 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: about water testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wil, You do not indicate what type of Cichlids you are planning to get, although with you're planning to have a pH of 8.2, I would have to guess you are getting African Rift Lake Cichlids(?). West African and South American Cichlids like acid water in general, and Central American Cichlids like alkaline water, but not quite that high. You said that previously, you've never tested your water. How long have you had your tank set up? I presume your tap water is much closer to neutral than your pH 6.2 tank water, and is probably somewhat alkaline. Instead of starting with old, acid water, you should start with mostly (or all) fresh tap water, even if it means cycling the tank again, after transferring the goldfish. For one thing, it will be easier to raise the pH. and your new Cichlids will thank you for it. As for the goldfish, be careful about transferring them from the tank of pH 6.2 to your pond conditions. Any drastic change should be done gradually; first, by making 20% water changes every day for a while until the pH comes up, unless your pond is that acid too. Keep in mind that Goldfish prefer slightly alkaline water though. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3186 From: paul helms Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i would recomend the aquaclear if you really want a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            back filter, and i would also recomend checking out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the fluval canister filters, they are very versitile
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- Deenerz@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > In a message dated 7/4/2004 7:08:35 PM Pacific
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > questnjurny@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Anyone have any opinions on filters? We are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > looking for a new hang on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the back type, and are looking at the wet/dry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > filters. Are they any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > good, or should i go with the basic design (such as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the aqua clear?).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I am looking at getting a 55-75 gal tank for an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > oscar, so would need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a filter to accomodate that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Yes, I have opinions on them : )
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I like the aqua clears. I run a 500 on a 55 and it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is doing great. I also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > have 150's, 200's and a 300. I am happy with all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > them. The sponges are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > great and make it cheap to operate, also being able
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to add bags of ammocarb
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > or filter floss is great. It is also good to run
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > just the sponge especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > if you are medicating the tank and don't want the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > carbon removing all the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > medication.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I do run a whisper filter on one tank, and it works
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ok.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I run an emporer 400 and it works good too, but I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > having problems with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > clogged water holes for the bio wheels. I have had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > several penguin biowheel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > filters and they are ok as well, I do get problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > with slow turning or not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > turning wheels and the filter carts seem to clog
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > really quick.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > If I were starting over I would get an Aqua Clear.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3187 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/4/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Muskie, Without actually seeing these foamy bubbles, its hard to say what they're from, but it could just be residual organics in your tap water. Fresh carbon in your filter should take care of it. While you had low test readings after three weeks, does not mean that your tank is completely cycled. That process takes on average at least 4 to 6 weeks, and then, the ammonia will spike first (and start to decline), with the nitrites spiking 7 to 9 days later. You may have tested in between spikes or before the first (ammonia) spike. The 10% (or more) weeekly water changing is only to be started after the tank has cycled. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3188 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: about water testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you either need to buffe rthe hell out of that tank or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            recycle it. with no buffering capacity your ph will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            not stabalize where you want it, and you are not going
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to have much luck in lowering your nitrates either.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            all of the chemicals that lower it will also destroy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            any buffering capacity that you restore. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            suggestion would be to do a 90% water change and let
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the tank respike. if your biological filters are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            still alive, they will cycle the tank much quicker.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            be sure not to lose the bottom 10% of the tank as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            there is a lot of biology under the gravel. with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            regards to the eclipse, they are good. if you add an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            undergravel filter to it, they are unbeatable. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            undergravel filter is more efficient in than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            biowheel, as it gives you a much larger bio bed, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it helps to keep the substrate cleaner by pulling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            waste down to the bacteria, but the biowheel puts it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            over the top by doing the same function to the top
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            half of the tank.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- wil <lionel_richie666@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ive posted here once and you were all very helpful,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > thank you. this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > may disgust some people, but ive never tested my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water. i bought a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kit today because i want to switch my one tank from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > goldfish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cichlids. i understand that cichlids require a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > higher ph level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > here is the result of my test:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no+ 200
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > no- 1.0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gh 300
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > kh 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ph 6.2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > mind you i was due for a partial water change which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > i immediately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > executed upon the test, so im gonna test it again
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > later. i also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bought an 8.2 ph treatment to prepare for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cichlids. my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > questions are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 1.should i add the ph treatment while the goldfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > are still in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 2.are cichlids hyper sensitive to any of the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > chemical levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > or primarily ph?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > thank you very much for helping an amatuer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > p.s. any opinions on those ecplipse set ups? i was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > thinking about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > getting one for kicks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3189 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My daughter turns her lights on at night about five o'clock and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            turns them off in the morning usually around eight. Is that too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            light for them?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > lights on?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3190 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hmmm, well the tank is nearly six weeks old, now...should I wait it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            out or do a water change?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Sounds like u may have a high ammonia level.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3191 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/5/2004 10:49:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My daughter turns her lights on at night about five o'clock and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            turns them off in the morning usually around eight.  Is that too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            light for them?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Um ... usually you want to have the lights on during DAYLIGHT hours. So she'd have to switch completely.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Fishies need sleep too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3192 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sounds like 24 hours per day, the lights/sun is stressing. Does your daughter work an odd shift?  Circadian rythym disturbed can cause lots of stress problems. I worked night-shift and never  (recovered?) adjusted. Saw a ducumentary where "experts" were deigning to "give" us workers some kind of benefit to mitigate the horrors of working odd shifts. I had plants that behaved in this, the northern hemisphere, as if they were growing in the point of genetic-evolution (southern hemisphere.) It would be interesting to know why the lights are turned on around evening and left on all night.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > My daughter turns her lights on at night about five o'clock and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > turns them off in the morning usually around eight. Is that too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > light for them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > lights on?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3193 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Just remembered I tried keeping Cardinal and Neons years ago and remembered Neon disease (Plistophora), and did a GOOGLE search using that term and came up wqith the following link;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.erdingtonaquatics.com/neons.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            .....................and it turns out that Neons DO NOT LIKE BRIGHT LIGHT, and the aquarium should be adjusted as per the above link.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > My daughter turns her lights on at night about five o'clock and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > turns them off in the morning usually around eight. Is that too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > light for them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > lights on?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3194 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Cynthia: Do you only have two neons total, or are only two of your school of neons washed out? Neons are after all a schooling fish, and I have read in some sources that some types of bright colored schooling fish tend to lose their pretty coloring if not kept in adequate groups. Also, is it possible that your lighting is getting old and you just need to replace some bulbs?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            - Audrey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 20:51:12 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: washed out neons

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have two neon tetras which are not acting funny, but are rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            suddenly...pale...they look like someone dipped them in a vat of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bleach...the colors are still there, but washed out. It isn't ick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            as far as I can tell, no patches, or distended scales, they aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            acting sick at all, they're just pale. Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3195 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Chemicals in Algae lab
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Dear colleagues,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sodium nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sodium Othophosphate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sodium molybdate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ferric chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            EDTA lab grade
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Silicate gel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            D-Biotin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Cynocobalamine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thaimine Hydrochloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Copper sulphate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mannese chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cobaltus chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            zinc sulphate


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Are few chemicals used in lab for algae culture
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Could you please tell how the presence or absence or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            percentage /ratio of certain chemical affects the culture of algae?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And even certain " very-costly "items like D-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Biotin ,cynocobalamine :role
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in the algae culture .


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ManyThanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3196 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            just a question but why are they lights in the tank on during the night and not during the day.. i hope you dont have any night time dwellers like a pleco or he is going to be all confused lol... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My daughter turns her lights on at night about five o'clock and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            turns them off in the morning usually around eight.  Is that too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            light for them?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > lights on? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3197 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that darn link is broken... darnit.. i was realy looking forward to reading about it.. i have 5 neons and well i guess my tank isnt that bright i was actually thinking i need a new bulb... mine seem to be all fine.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3198 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            at one point i only had one neon cuase the 2 others had died.. mine was ok for months.. i just recently added 4 and then all hate one of them for some reason... and ate her tail but she survived and is ok now... i guess pecking order literally lol.. but  i do like seeing more in there they are pretty.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Cynthia: Do you only have two neons total, or are only two of your school of neons washed out? Neons are after all a schooling fish, and I have read in some sources that some types of bright colored schooling fish tend to lose their pretty coloring if not kept in adequate groups. Also, is it possible that your lighting is getting old and you just need to replace some bulbs?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            - Audrey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3199 From: jess_babs_07 Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: please help ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hey,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am thinking of starting another tank for just ghost shrimp. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank is 2.5 gallons I think. I put some rocks and some breeding grass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            at the bottom of my tank. I was thinking if I should put something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            else in it to get some ghost shrimp to breed so i can put some info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in my group about ghost shrimp. Should I put some type of air filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            r wat. And how many should i put in the tank. I would like to use it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            as a breeding tank and a study tank to learn more about the behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of ghost shrimp again so i can put the info in my yahoo group. if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            anyone can help please let me know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jessica
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3200 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: please help ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'd say you should at least have an airstone. They can tolerate temps down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to the mid-60s. Here's some basic info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/misc_critters/shrimp_ghost.htm#top2


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Theresa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I am thinking of starting another tank for just ghost shrimp. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank is 2.5 gallons I think. I put some rocks and some breeding grass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > at the bottom of my tank. I was thinking if I should put something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > else in it to get some ghost shrimp to breed so i can put some info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > in my group about ghost shrimp. Should I put some type of air filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > r wat. And how many should i put in the tank. I would like to use it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > as a breeding tank and a study tank to learn more about the behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > of ghost shrimp again so i can put the info in my yahoo group. if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > anyone can help please let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3201 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Shannon!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ..................Which link is broken? If it's the one pointing to light requirements for Neons, it won't open here in COMCAST, I must load it to Outlook Express to enact it. If you don't want to, or can't do that, you'll have to type or drag it to your ADDRESS window in IE. I checked it and it works.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that darn link is broken... darnit.. i was realy looking forward to reading about it.. i have 5 neons and well i guess my tank isnt that bright i was actually thinking i need a new bulb... mine seem to be all fine.. shannon





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3202 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I figured it might be a lingo thing. Don't usually use that word, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it seemed very appropriate to my point. Not quite smarmy, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            condescending none the less. Like being put out to reply, ya know? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            don't see a trip to the west anytime soon. But life's kind of funny, ya
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            never know....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3203 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Hello form a complete beginner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As a matter of personal opinion, I never introduce neons to a tank that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            isn't at least 6 months mature. Many people have, with success. But I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            have known MANY hobbyists who have had nothing but problems, as in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            continuing fatalities. I'd suggest getting the tank very well cycled
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            before adding them. Most in the trade are still being wild caught and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are already stressed, then to put them in a less than perfect tank will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            almost surely cause their demise. JMHO.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3204 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yeah, get more neons. Until you do, they'll be stressed out and just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            waiting for an unseen attacker, real or imagined.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3205 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: about water testing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wil, please do a lot more research on cichlids before you switch. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            can't get into detail, I going camping in a few minutes, but please know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            there are very sensitive to screwed up water, later, see you all next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            week.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3206 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the lights should be on no more than 14 hours a day,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and should be normal daylight issues, te excessive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            light of normal day time and lights on all night can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            stress them out and cause discoloration.





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3207 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Doesn't make much difference in her room, actually, and she likes the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            nightlight effect. She has a VERY dark, small room, and there is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            streetlight that shines directly into it at night, so she prefers to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            leave it on overnight, instead of during the day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Um ... usually you want to have the lights on during DAYLIGHT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hours. So she'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > have to switch completely.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            /
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3208 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            She has five neons, only two of which are washed out looking. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lighting could be getting old, but that should make it dimmer,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            shouldn't it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Cynthia: Do you only have two neons total, or are only two of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            school of neons washed out? Neons are after all a schooling fish, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have read in some sources that some types of bright colored
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            schooling fish tend to lose their pretty coloring if not kept in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            adequate groups. Also, is it possible that your lighting is getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            old and you just need to replace some bulbs?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > - Audrey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3209 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The lights are on at night instead of during the day because my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            daughter likes to watch it as she goes to sleep. Her room is small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and quite dark, so she doesn't spend much time in it during the day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            at all, and that is their night cycle. During the night hours, her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            room gets a bright streetlight shining into it, so it is actually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lighter at night than in the daytime...weird. But go fig, it's 50's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            architecture...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > just a question but why are they lights in the tank on during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            night and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > not during the day.. i hope you dont have any night time dwellers
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            like a pleco
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > or he is going to be all confused lol... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > My daughter turns her lights on at night about five o'clock and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > turns them off in the morning usually around eight. Is that too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > light for them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > lights on?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3210 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i turn my lights off at about 4am and back on at 2pm and my fish all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            seem really happy, including my big pleco. they don't know what time it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is, they just care that they get some dark.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On Jul 5, 2004, at 1:07 PM, agentscullyeyore@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > just a question but why are they lights in the tank on during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > night and not during the day.. i hope you dont have any night time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > dwellers like a pleco or he is going to be all confused lol... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > My daughter turns her lights on at night about five o'clock and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > turns them off in the morning usually around eight.  Is that too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > light for them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > lights on? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            religion....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3211 From: Barbara Linden Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Education needed...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm a professional petsitter and know most animals WELL, but am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            pretty much clueless about fish, and am trying to learn. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            have the book "Keeping Murphy Out Of Your Aquarium"? If so, please
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            give a review...and, if GOOD, where can I find it? Also, is the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            product FritzZyme 7 really as good as I'm reading??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks muchly for your expertise and time!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Barb
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3212 From: utacutie Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hey all, got some bioballs and put a few in the filter and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            floating in the tank. Also put a few in the 10g to help it speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a little. I'm going to put a handful of gravel from an established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank in tomorrow so hopefully that will help also. One other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            question, I may have asked before..When the filter gets clogged on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my tank do I have to totally replace it? Wont that start the whole
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cycle over? Also, do I ever take these bioballs out, and if so, how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            do I go about that? Thanks!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3213 From: Salmarcus@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Haiir Algea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What would be the best way to get rid of pesky hair algea without completely tearing down the tank and setting it up again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Any help would be greatly appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Scott
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3214 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Haiir Algea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i had some on my amazon sword plant. it was all hairy and waving in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            water and then, as quickly as it came, it went away. i got a couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            extra plattys in that time. perhaps they eat it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On Jul 5, 2004, at 6:04 PM, Salmarcus@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > What would be the best way to get rid of pesky hair algea without
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > completely tearing down the tank and setting it up again?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Scott
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            religion....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3215 From: Salmarcus@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Haiir Algea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            somebody had recomended that I turn off the lights annd cover the tank for a week or so. The clown loaches probably would not mind but I don't think the swordtails in the tank would like it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Scott
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3216 From: Sarah Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Our lights go on when we get up and get turned off when we go bed....lol 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: 07/05/04 22:16:19
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i turn my lights off at about 4am and back on at 2pm and my fish all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            seem really happy, including my big pleco. they don't know what time it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is, they just care that they get some dark.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On Jul 5, 2004, at 1:07 PM, agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > just a question but why are they lights in the tank on during the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > night and not during the day.. i hope you dont have any night time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > dwellers like a pleco or he is going to be all confused lol... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > My daughter turns her lights on at night about five o'clock and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >  turns them off in the morning usually around eight.  Is that too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >  light for them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > lights on? 
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3217 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the gravel will do nothing for you, but the brown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            water under the gravel will. you are not trying to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            grow the bacteria in your filter pad, but rather under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the plate of the undergravel filter or on the wheel of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the biowheel


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- utacutie <utacutie@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hey all, got some bioballs and put a few in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > filter and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > floating in the tank. Also put a few in the 10g to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > help it speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a little. I'm going to put a handful of gravel from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > an established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank in tomorrow so hopefully that will help also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > One other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > question, I may have asked before..When the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gets clogged on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > my tank do I have to totally replace it? Wont that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > start the whole
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cycle over? Also, do I ever take these bioballs out,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and if so, how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > do I go about that? Thanks!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3218 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Question

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Is there a resource elaborating bacteria will not colonize gravel over an undergravel-filter. And if they colonize bio-balls, why not gravel?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the gravel will do nothing for you, but the brown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water under the gravel will. you are not trying to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > grow the bacteria in your filter pad, but rather under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the plate of the undergravel filter or on the wheel of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the biowheel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- utacutie wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Hey all, got some bioballs and put a few in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > filter and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > floating in the tank. Also put a few in the 10g to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > help it speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > a little. I'm going to put a handful of gravel from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > an established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > tank in tomorrow so hopefully that will help also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > One other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > question, I may have asked before..When the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > gets clogged on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > my tank do I have to totally replace it? Wont that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > start the whole
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > cycle over? Also, do I ever take these bioballs out,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > and if so, how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > do I go about that? Thanks!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3219 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mine too, lol..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On Jul 5, 2004, at 6:49 PM, Sarah wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Our lights go on when we get up and get turned off when we go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > bed....lol 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Date: 07/05/04 22:16:19
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > i turn my lights off at about 4am and back on at 2pm and my fish all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > seem really happy, including my big pleco. they don't know what time it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is, they just care that they get some dark.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > On Jul 5, 2004, at 1:07 PM, agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bored? fear not! hit up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.puppetterrorsshop.com/phpBB2/index.php
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you know you want to....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3220 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            How dark is it in the room during the day? I'd be concerned about the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            actually having a 'night' and getting rest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Theresa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: "cynthia brennemann" <brennewoman@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > The lights are on at night instead of during the day because my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > daughter likes to watch it as she goes to sleep. Her room is small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and quite dark, so she doesn't spend much time in it during the day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > at all, and that is their night cycle. During the night hours, her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > room gets a bright streetlight shining into it, so it is actually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > lighter at night than in the daytime...weird. But go fig, it's 50's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > architecture...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3221 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            me again lol shannon i bet if we take a pole most do.. hum good idea lol shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3222 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            joe-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            most gravel sold for the aquarium industry is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            natural, meaning that it is not staright up gravel.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it may be natural in color, but it is usually coated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            with an epoxy that make sthe surface smooth, resulting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in a poor environment to grow bacteria, but a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lasting color of your choosing. i personally use all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            natural gravel, such as rmc lonestar pebble beach sand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for fresh water. it is small sized gravel (not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            actually sand). the bacteria need a porous surface to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            colonize the. biobeads have a cracked rough edge to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            them, bio balls are plastic balls with plenty of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            grooves for the bacteria to survive in, other such as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the fluval biomax are a porous ceramic material. this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is also the reason that one should not bake their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gravel to kill parasites as i have heard offered as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            advice in the past. when the epoxies are melted they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            can release toxins into the aquarium.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Paul


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Is there a resource elaborating bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > will not colonize gravel over an undergravel-filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And if they colonize bio-balls, why not gravel?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > the gravel will do nothing for you, but the brown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > water under the gravel will. you are not trying to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > grow the bacteria in your filter pad, but rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > the plate of the undergravel filter or on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > wheel of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > the biowheel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > --- utacutie wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > Hey all, got some bioballs and put a few in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > filter and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > floating in the tank. Also put a few in the 10g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > help it speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > a little. I'm going to put a handful of gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > an established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > tank in tomorrow so hopefully that will help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > One other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > question, I may have asked before..When the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > gets clogged on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > my tank do I have to totally replace it? Wont
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > start the whole
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > cycle over? Also, do I ever take these bioballs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > out,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > and if so, how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > do I go about that? Thanks!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3223 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The problem with that is lights out at 2pm means the fish aren't really getting dark time until what, 7 or 8pm? Personally I don't it's adequate dark/rest time, kind of like us shift workers :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: amalthea23

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i turn my lights off at about 4am and back on at 2pm and my fish all seem really happy, including my big pleco. they don't know what time it is, they just care that they get some dark.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3224 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Question

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Paul,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Thanks, that's something I did'nt know. Wonder if there's a label requirement for gravel, or should be? One of the recommendations for Corydoras was something that would'nt cause them to wear away their barbels, so I chose something that really appeared natural, and did'nt have the abrasive qualities that I believed quartz/aggregate (which was/is the predominant gravel around here) has.  I'm almost sure it was epoxy then, 'tho I don't think that info was on the bag. I've stopped keeping fish in the last month, but if the opportunity comes to start again,  your info will be very useful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > joe-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > most gravel sold for the aquarium industry is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > natural, meaning that it is not staright up gravel.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > it may be natural in color, but it is usually coated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > with an epoxy that make sthe surface smooth, resulting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > in a poor environment to grow bacteria, but a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > lasting color of your choosing. i personally use all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > natural gravel, such as rmc lonestar pebble beach sand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > for fresh water. it is small sized gravel (not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > actually sand). the bacteria need a porous surface to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > colonize the. biobeads have a cracked rough edge to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > them, bio balls are plastic balls with plenty of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > grooves for the bacteria to survive in, other such as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the fluval biomax are a porous ceramic material. this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is also the reason that one should not bake their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gravel to kill parasites as i have heard offered as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > advice in the past. when the epoxies are melted they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > can release toxins into the aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > --- j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Is there a resource elaborating bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > will not colonize gravel over an undergravel-filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > And if they colonize bio-balls, why not gravel?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > the gravel will do nothing for you, but the brown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > water under the gravel will. you are not trying to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > grow the bacteria in your filter pad, but rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > the plate of the undergravel filter or on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > wheel of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > the biowheel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > --- utacutie wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > Hey all, got some bioballs and put a few in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > filter and a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > floating in the tank. Also put a few in the 10g
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > help it speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > a little. I'm going to put a handful of gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > an established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > tank in tomorrow so hopefully that will help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > One other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > question, I may have asked before..When the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > gets clogged on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > my tank do I have to totally replace it? Wont
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > start the whole
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > cycle over? Also, do I ever take these bioballs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > out,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > and if so, how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > > do I go about that? Thanks!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3225 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            oh, it's pitch black in the room when the lights are out. i have thick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            velvet curtains on the windows. it's dark enough for my parrrot to fall
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            into that coma level of sleep. i'm not a shift worker, that's just my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            natural rhythm :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            On Jul 5, 2004, at 8:28 PM, Dan & Theresa wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > The problem with that is lights out at 2pm means the fish aren't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > really getting dark time until what, 7 or 8pm? Personally I don't it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > adequate dark/rest time, kind of like us shift workers :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > From: amalthea23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > i turn my lights off at about 4am and back on at 2pm and my fish all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > seem really happy, including my big pleco. they don't know what time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > it is, they just care that they get some dark.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > amalthea
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3226 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Chemicals in water for Algal growth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Dear colleagues,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hello,I am new to this group,i wonder if some one could guide me in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            basic of any algae growth in any water( sea ,brackish and Fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            water)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sodium nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sodium Othophosphate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sodium molybdate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ferric chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            EDTA lab grade
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Silicate gel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            D-Biotin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Cynocobalamine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thaimine Hydrochloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Copper sulphate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mannese chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cobaltus chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            zinc sulphate


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Are few chemicals ( Also silica ,vitamins, trace elements etc )
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            used in lab for algae culture
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Could you please tell how the presence or absence or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            percentage /ratio of certain chemical affects the culture of algae?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And even certain " very-costly "items like D-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Biotin ,cynocobalamine :role
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in the algae culture .


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ManyThanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3227 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: ? On Pacu
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi everyone, I have two black pacu, there 1 year old, and are in a 55
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gallon high. We are having problems with them chasing eachother to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the top and bumping the hood lightly. Is that normal for them? And
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            what is the best filteration for them. The one we have now does okay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            but can do better.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thank you Danielle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3228 From: joegum Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The municipal water supply here is VERY alkaline. I've been using a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            product called "pH Down." The recommended dosage is 2 drops per gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of water. I'm finding that I need to use approximately 15 or so drops
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            per gallon to get the pH down to 7.0.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm also finding that the aquarium water keeps creeping up toward
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the alkaline side by the time I do my water change. I would have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            thought that the pH would tend to go down with the accumulation of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            waste, decaying plant leaves, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Three questions:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Could the use of "Ammo Chips" in the power filter cause the pH to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            keep rising?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Could the occasional use of 'biospheres" plant nutrient cause the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            pH to rise significantly? I've been using well below the recommended
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            dose and frequency.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Would it make sense to keep a bucket of water with a peat filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            going in it until I do my regular water changes? Or, would it be better
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            perhaps to keep a peat only small corner filter in the tank itself?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This is a 55-gallon tank inhabited by one betta, three white clouds, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            small (but rapidly growing) plecostomus, one ghost shrimp and perhaps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            twenty or so pond snails, ramshorn snails and cone snails. There are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            various live plants and some driftwood as well as supposedly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "aquarium-safe" decorations and gravel. In the past, I used a peat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            filter to treat water for various cichlids, but I'm unsure if it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            appropriate to "peat-treat" aquarium water for other fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks, -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3229 From: joegum Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            One additional bit of info....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I tend to keep a diatom filter going with both the powder and carbon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Could this cause the pH to rise? Thanks- -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3230 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: ? On Pacu
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            best filtration would be amuch larger tank with lots
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of filtration. they grow to 21 inches in tanks


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- Danielle L Baldwin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <setokaibarules2002@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hi everyone, I have two black pacu, there 1 year
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > old, and are in a 55
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gallon high. We are having problems with them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > chasing eachother to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the top and bumping the hood lightly. Is that normal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > for them? And
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > what is the best filteration for them. The one we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > have now does okay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > but can do better.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thank you Danielle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3231 From: paul helms Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Chemicals in water for Algal growth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            algae is dependant upon to factors.....the amount of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            light and the amount of phosphate in the water. those
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are the two growth components.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- shailendra Indulkar <indulkarshailu@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Dear colleagues,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hello,I am new to this group,i wonder if some one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > could guide me in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > basic of any algae growth in any water( sea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ,brackish and Fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Sodium nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Sodium Othophosphate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Sodium molybdate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Ferric chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > EDTA lab grade
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Silicate gel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > D-Biotin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Cynocobalamine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thaimine Hydrochloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Copper sulphate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Mannese chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cobaltus chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > zinc sulphate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Are few chemicals ( Also silica ,vitamins, trace
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > elements etc )
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > used in lab for algae culture
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Could you please tell how the presence or absence or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > percentage /ratio of certain chemical affects the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > culture of algae?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And even certain " very-costly "items like D-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Biotin ,cynocobalamine :role
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > in the algae culture .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ManyThanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3232 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/5/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: please help ASAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hello.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've been keeping and breeding ghost shrimp for over a year now. At first I thought they were algae-eaters but I later discovered they were scavengers and detritus feeders. They just seem like algae-grazers but actually pick trapped dirt and microorganism growing on the algae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            No need for an airstone as long as there are plenty of plants and the water's not more than 12 inches deep. They can also survive between 23-32 degrees Celsius. No need for a particular pH or hardness either but they do better in soft and acidic water. In the wild, they live in puddles and small streams choked with dead leaves and twigs. They are easy to breed. They often assume coloration similar to their surroundings: they have more red with red sand, more black on black sand, more green if there's plenty of plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sometimes, they have a wide cream stripe on ther backs, sometimes they are peppered with black spots. Females are more colorful and dark-hued when carrying eggs. Sometimes the shrimp are nearly colorless.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I breed ghost shrimp to keep my tank bottom clean and as a supplementary live food for my discus, kribs and badis. A disappointment they are though at algae-control. If you're keeping them with predatory fishes, provide them with plenty of hiding spaces and floating plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Rod


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'd say you should at least have an airstone. They can tolerate temps down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to the mid-60s. Here's some basic info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/misc_critters/shrimp_ghost.htm#top2


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Theresa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: "jess_babs_07" <jess_babs_07@...>

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I am thinking of starting another tank for just ghost shrimp. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tank is 2.5 gallons I think. I put some rocks and some breeding grass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > at the bottom of my tank. I was thinking if I should put something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > else in it to get some ghost shrimp to breed so i can put some info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > in my group about ghost shrimp. Should I put some type of air filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > r wat. And how many should i put in the tank. I would like to use it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > as a breeding tank and a study tank to learn more about the behavior
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > of ghost shrimp again so i can put the info in my yahoo group. if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > anyone can help please let me know.




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3233 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Joe,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The PH is a very flimsy thing to work with. I myself use API PH down to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bring my tap water PH down to 6.6 from 8.2. What I have noticed is, when you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            add PH down to the replacement water, it brings the PH down to the required
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            level almost instantly but on keeping it for 1-2 hours the PH swings back on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the high end. This is due to the buffering capability of hard water that we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            get in our taps. You will probably need to redoes the water with PH down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            again but less this time to get accurate results.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This is also the case happening in your tank. The Tank water has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            considerable KH and hence prevents the PH from going down even on adding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            acidic water. Very painfull in the long term as mathematically: 25% water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            change of a tank at pH 7.8 with water with PH 6 should bring the tank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            PH down a bit to 7.2 or 7.4?? but what you will test after 2 ours of water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            change is that it has had no effect at all. Still sitting at 7.8.. Buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            capacity of the water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Long term solution to this is to either once treat the entire tank with PH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            down slowly to decrease the PH over a span of 2-3 days until you reach the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            desired result. And then carry on with water changes keeping water for 2 hrs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            before adding in the tank and test again. Once you get the hang of it, you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wont need to test the water every now and then.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ps: It is not a good idea to use chemicals in an aquarium but sometimes it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is the only option available. So if you can keep fish at your tap water PH,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            nothing could be better.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >From: joegum [mailto:joegum@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Sent: 06 July 2004 03:48
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > The municipal water supply here is VERY alkaline. I've been using a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >product called "pH Down." The recommended dosage is 2 drops per gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >of water. I'm finding that I need to use approximately 15 or so drops
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >per gallon to get the pH down to 7.0.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I'm also finding that the aquarium water keeps creeping up toward
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >the alkaline side by the time I do my water change. I would have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >thought that the pH would tend to go down with the accumulation of fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >waste, decaying plant leaves, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Three questions:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Could the use of "Ammo Chips" in the power filter cause the pH to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >keep rising?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Could the occasional use of 'biospheres" plant nutrient cause the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >pH to rise significantly? I've been using well below the recommended
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >dose and frequency.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Would it make sense to keep a bucket of water with a peat filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >going in it until I do my regular water changes? Or, would it be better
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >perhaps to keep a peat only small corner filter in the tank itself?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >This is a 55-gallon tank inhabited by one betta, three white clouds, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >small (but rapidly growing) plecostomus, one ghost shrimp and perhaps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >twenty or so pond snails, ramshorn snails and cone snails. There are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >various live plants and some driftwood as well as supposedly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >"aquarium-safe" decorations and gravel. In the past, I used a peat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >filter to treat water for various cichlids, but I'm unsure if it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >appropriate to "peat-treat" aquarium water for other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks, -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3234 From: Aaron Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: fish shows - details from another group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I came across this post from another group...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Best regards
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a. Guppy Associates of Milwaukee November 29-31, 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (FIRST SHOW IN THE 2005 SHOW YEAR)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            b. Chesapeke Guppy Association April 2-3, 2005

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            c. East Coast Guppy Association May 14-15, 2005

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            d. Michigan Guppy Breeders June 4-5, 2005

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            e. New England Fancy Guppy Association June 25-26
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            June, 2005

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            f. Pan Pacific Guppy Association July 16-17 July, 2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (IFGA Mid-Year Meeting)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            g. Guppy Associates International of Chicago August
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            6-7, 2005

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            h. Rocky Mountain Guppy Associates August 27-28, 2005

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i. Deep South Fancy Guppy Associates November 4-6,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2005
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (IFGA Annual Meeting)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3235 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               The link in the page to the disease page is not available.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I'LL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...AND THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANTED TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: 07/05/04 06:39:22
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: washed out neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Just remembered I tried keeping Cardinal and Neons years ago and remembered Neon disease (Plistophora), and did a GOOGLE search using that term and came up wqith the following link;

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.erdingtonaquatics.com/neons.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              .....................and it turns out that Neons DO NOT LIKE BRIGHT LIGHT, and the aquarium should be adjusted as per the above link.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > My daughter turns her lights on at night about five o'clock and then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > turns them off in the morning usually around eight. Is that too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > light for them?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > this may sound odd, but how long do you leave your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > lights on?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Graphics taken from the web.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3236 From: joegum Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you! This does make sense. I hadn't thought about waiting 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hours and retesting before i9introducing the water. I still wonder,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              though, if a peat filter might not help matters. As I recall, it not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              only acidifies the water, but, it also tends to somewhat soften it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              This might help reduce the buffering capacity of the water you referred
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to. i'm not sure if the various tannins and other substances it would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              release would be OK for the majority of fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Btw, I'm saving your reply on my H.D.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Joe G.









                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nimish Mathur wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > The PH is a very flimsy thing to work with. I myself use API PH down to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > bring my tap water PH down to 6.6 from 8.2. What I have noticed is,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > when you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > add PH down to the replacement water, it brings the PH down to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > required
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > level almost instantly but on keeping it for 1-2 hours the PH swings
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > back on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the high end. This is due to the buffering capability of hard water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > get in our taps. You will probably need to redoes the water with PH down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > again but less this time to get accurate results.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > This is also the case happening in your tank. The Tank water has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > considerable KH and hence prevents the PH from going down even on adding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > acidic water. Very painfull in the long term as mathematically: 25% water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > change of a tank at pH 7.8 with water with PH 6 should bring the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > PH down a bit to 7.2 or 7.4?? but what you will test after 2 ours of water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > change is that it has had no effect at all. Still sitting at 7.8..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Buffering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > capacity of the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Long term solution to this is to either once treat the entire tank with PH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > down slowly to decrease the PH over a span of 2-3 days until you reach the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > desired result. And then carry on with water changes keeping water for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 2 hrs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > before adding in the tank and test again. Once you get the hang of it, you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > wont need to test the water every now and then.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Ps: It is not a good idea to use chemicals in an aquarium but sometimes it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > is the only option available. So if you can keep fish at your tap
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > water PH,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > nothing could be better.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3237 From: joegum Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Is there some way to inexpensively keep the tank temp down in a room
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that isn't air-conditioned?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Some of the thing I've been doing are:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Shimming the fluorescent light fixtures to allow air to circulate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              under them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Shimming the lids to allow air to circulate under them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Removing the lid from my large waterfall-type external power filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to increase evaporation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Floating BLUE ICE packs in the tank. This only lowers the temp in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my 55-gal by about 2 degrees.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Keeping a large fan blowing across the whole setup to increase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              evaporation and air flow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Adding an air-stone to increase evaporation, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Even with all this, on extremely hot days the temp can rise to 84 degrees.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks, -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3238 From: frbstrd@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Home made chiller is all thats left i can think of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3239 From: joegum Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have 2 RIO Powerheads connected to my undergravel setup. Could these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              be a significant source of heat?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3240 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: ?'S ON CATFISH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              just incase some people who may have been out for the 3 day weekend
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i'm reposting this question.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i have 10 fresh water catfish. they are under a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              inch big, with white bottom wiskers and a rounded tail. they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              came from a creek in kansas, we thought they where tadpoles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              till we put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              clearer water. they seem to love fish food. but should i be feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              them other types of food like earthworms or something. we can't get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              live bloodworms where i live. they and are so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cute. i have posted a picture under melanie's pics. any info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              anyone can share about care feeding water temps anything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              would be appreciated thanks. Melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3241 From: paul helms Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they do put out heat, as they are water cooled
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              magnetic impellers, but heat problems generally come
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              form the lighting being too strong on a small tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              how big is the tank?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- joegum <joegum@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have 2 RIO Powerheads connected to my undergravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > setup. Could these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > be a significant source of heat?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3242 From: paul helms Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              evaporating the tank will not lower the temp, it will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              diminish the size of the body of water and allow it to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hold the temp better. ice = bad idea, it shocks the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish. raising the lights of the top is a great idea,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and i suggest blowing a fan directly at the front
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              glass of the tank, i have done that several years in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              row on my 125 reef and it lowers the temp 3-4 degrees
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              by cooling the glass itself.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- joegum <joegum@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Is there some way to inexpensively keep the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > temp down in a room
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that isn't air-conditioned?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Some of the thing I've been doing are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Shimming the fluorescent light fixtures to allow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > air to circulate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > under them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Shimming the lids to allow air to circulate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > under them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Removing the lid from my large waterfall-type
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > external power filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to increase evaporation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Floating BLUE ICE packs in the tank. This only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > lowers the temp in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > my 55-gal by about 2 degrees.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Keeping a large fan blowing across the whole
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > setup to increase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > evaporation and air flow.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Adding an air-stone to increase evaporation,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Even with all this, on extremely hot days the temp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > can rise to 84 degrees.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks, -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3243 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   JoE,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't believe there is. I had/have (I stopped keeping fish) air-conditioning, and the only place for my aquarium was next to thick-brick walls (which absorbed heat like a sponge, and stored it) , and even then the window-mount A/C ( 24,000 BTU) did'nt furnish enough coolong to keep the tank cool (it was 16 feet accross the room). unless I had a clip-on fan running close to the A/C exhaust, and another attached to my home-made bed-post (which was a couple feet from the aquarium) directing cool air to the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  After I started worrying about keeping tropicals cool in the hot Pennsylvania summer heat. a guy  from somewhere in Africa, who naturalized and opened an Upholstery biz in the area,  told me it's hotter and/or more humid here in Pa. than where he came from.  But before that an LFS proprietor  (I think) told me that a small refrigerator (maybe you can get one cheap, or get a used one, or check refurbished appliance dealears in your area if you have one), with plastic aquarium tubing, coiled inside the fridge, powered by a 'power-head', or whatever's safe, can keep your temp down. If it's effective, you could have to apply a thermostat to maintain even cooling. It could also be several or more hundred dollars cheaper.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Is there some way to inexpensively keep the tank temp down in a room
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that isn't air-conditioned?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Some of the thing I've been doing are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Shimming the fluorescent light fixtures to allow air to circulate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > under them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Shimming the lids to allow air to circulate under them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Removing the lid from my large waterfall-type external power filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to increase evaporation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Floating BLUE ICE packs in the tank. This only lowers the temp in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > my 55-gal by about 2 degrees.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Keeping a large fan blowing across the whole setup to increase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > evaporation and air flow.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Adding an air-stone to increase evaporation, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Even with all this, on extremely hot days the temp can rise to 84 degrees.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks, -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3244 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Joe,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       I think your ambient temperature is the major problem. What is the ambient temperature? Is the tank close to a dense wall or two? If that's the case you could apply styrofoam insulation panels on the wall/walls, and color it to match thine decor. If your tank temp is about the same as the room temp, the power-heads probably don't effect a problem. If you sacrafice one of those liquid-crystal, color relating temp thermometers, and remove the glue with lighter-fluid, you could take temps of the walls. (hold it temporarily with scotch/cello tape)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have 2 RIO Powerheads connected to my undergravel setup. Could these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > be a significant source of heat?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3245 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Joe,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           If your room has a hot side and a cool side with windows on both sides, you can draw cool-air from the hot side (morning), and reverse the process when the sun radiates to the other side of the room.  It's important to EXHAUST the air, that is, place the fan in the hot-side window, while the cool-side window is open, so that you're drawing air from the cool-side, exhausting warm/hot air. I f you try to push the air through the hot-side from the cool-side, you have a compression/mioxing that is less efficient than drawing the air through the room.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Is there some way to inexpensively keep the tank temp down in a room
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that isn't air-conditioned?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Some of the thing I've been doing are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Shimming the fluorescent light fixtures to allow air to circulate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > under them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Shimming the lids to allow air to circulate under them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Removing the lid from my large waterfall-type external power filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to increase evaporation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Floating BLUE ICE packs in the tank. This only lowers the temp in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > my 55-gal by about 2 degrees.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Keeping a large fan blowing across the whole setup to increase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > evaporation and air flow.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Adding an air-stone to increase evaporation, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Even with all this, on extremely hot days the temp can rise to 84 degrees.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks, -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3246 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Joe,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Something I've noticed about those blue-ice-packs is they can leak. On one occasion, I sealed a pack with silicone jell after noticing a leak. You should use aquarium-safe sealant. (the kind that's acetic-acid-based, with labeling indicating aquarium-safe).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              \                    Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Is there some way to inexpensively keep the tank temp down in a room
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that isn't air-conditioned?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Some of the thing I've been doing are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Shimming the fluorescent light fixtures to allow air to circulate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > under them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Shimming the lids to allow air to circulate under them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Removing the lid from my large waterfall-type external power filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to increase evaporation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Floating BLUE ICE packs in the tank. This only lowers the temp in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > my 55-gal by about 2 degrees.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Keeping a large fan blowing across the whole setup to increase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > evaporation and air flow.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Adding an air-stone to increase evaporation, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Even with all this, on extremely hot days the temp can rise to 84 degrees.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks, -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3247 From: utacutie Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: evaporation?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What do you do when the water in the tank evaporates? I have just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              been adding water that was treated for chlorine, heavy metal, etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3248 From: frbstrd@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: evaporation?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              just what you've been doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3249 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: evaporation?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/6/2004 4:51:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, utacutie@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What do you do when the water in the tank evaporates?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You top off the tank with water that has been treated the same way that you treat water for water changes. I find it handy to keep a supply of water (about 1 gallon or so) mixed up. If keeping water for a period of time, you'll need to make sure the water doesn't stagnate. Putting in an air stone or diffuser that is hooked to an airpump should do the trick, and keep it from growing mold or mildew.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As long as the water is about the same as your aquarium temp, you should be able to just pour it in the aquarium as needed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3250 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe G., I doubt if your powerheads would add significantly to your heat problem. If you have a Fluval. Eheim or other such canister filters, place it in a 5 gallon plastic bucket and fill the bucket with ice. The rapid circulation should pass a lot of warm tank water past the cooled down filter and should be quite effective in transferring some of that heat to the contents of the bucket: just like chilling champaign! Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3251 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My smaller tanks give me the most problems with the summer heat. I make sure all my heaters are turned down so there's no chance whatsoever of them coming on. Once in a while we'll get a couple of cooler days but I don't readjust the heater. Hoods are left open, lights on for a minimum amount of time which really isn't a big deal...during the day our house is light, at night it's dark. I've used Cubies, which are small reusable ice cubes. After a while I've had a couple leak, and even though they say 'safe, non-toxic' I put them in a strong bag before floating them in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              We have central air but I tend to be kind of cheap about things like that and don't turn it on until it's unbearable lol Even when the temps here were in the mid-high 90°s my warmest tank was 80°.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3252 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe G. Watch when you have the cooled-down canister in operation that it doesn't bring down the temperature too much. You may have to adjust the quantity of ice in the bucket so that it doesn't pick up too much of the heat. Got to keep an eye on it -- 78F to 80F is fine, as you don't want the temp to fluctuate too much from your 84F in case it pops back up overnight due to lack of cooling; you don't want to shock the fish by having the temperature jump up and down, but try to keep it as steady as you can. By far, the greatest source of additional heat is from the lights. Try keeping their being lit to a minumum on those hot days. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3253 From: Patrick Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How anyone could live without a central air conditioning system is a mystery. :)  It saves so many problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3254 From: Patrick Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ?'S ON CATFISH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I would take them back to where you found them, as long as they haven't been in contact with any of your used tank equipment.  If they have been in contact with filters, water, nets, etc. that have been used for your non-native fish, you need to kill them and bury them to prevent introduction of disease into American waters.  It may be illegal to take them, depending on your state laws and the species.  If it is legal, and you have a pond, put them in the pond.  By pond, I mean a dirt pond, not plastic lined.  I also hope you have a fishing license or were legally fishing.  Native species are closely protected and even innocently taking them could be a crime in your state.  Since they are catfish, it is probably legal as long as you have a fishing license and keep it at all times because there might not be a size or number limit on them.  At this point it is most important to keep disease away from a local water source.  You might also try a native species forum or group to get more information.  I might be wrong about all of this legal stuff.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  just incase some people who may have been out for the 3 day weekend
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i'm reposting this question.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     i have 10 fresh water catfish. they are under a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  inch big, with white bottom wiskers and a rounded tail. they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  came from a creek in kansas, we thought they where tadpoles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  till we put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  clearer water. they seem to love fish food. but should i be feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  them other types of food like earthworms or something. we can't get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  live bloodworms where i live. they and are so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  cute. i have posted a picture under melanie's pics. any info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  anyone can share about care feeding water temps anything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  would be appreciated thanks. Melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3255 From: Sarah Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Some of us aint got the  money for that ;) 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sarah & Tony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 07/06/04 22:42:18
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      How anyone could live without a central air conditioning system is a mystery. :)  It saves so many problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3256 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Joe G. Just another thought. Many hobbyists have put their noisy air pumps (blowers) in their garage to keep the noise isolated, only to find that in the winter, the cold air being supplied cools down their tanks too much. In your case, you might want to try pulling your air from an old/used refrigerater or small freezer, on hot days, if you can find one of these units cheap. This will work, but again you'll have to keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't over-cool. These cooling methods will take some monitoring until you get only the moderate cooling effect that you want; high 70's to 80, no lower!. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3257 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We live in the DC area where it gets quite hot & humid. We do have central air but I only run it when it gets unbearable. I'd rather spend my money on other things :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      How anyone could live without a central air conditioning system is a mystery. :)  It saves so many problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3258 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: ?'S ON CATFISH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They where caught under a bridge in a tiny town, where you allowed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to drink and drive, not have your kids in seatbelts and all that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  stuff, also people in that town said they collected them as kids. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  just caught them with a net and they are in a 10 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  out a filter in it. they are so little you couldn't catch them with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  a fishing pole, and no i don't have a fishing license. I'm not gonna
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  kill them i'll just keep them they seem to be fine so far.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I would take them back to where you found them, as long as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they haven't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > been in contact with any of your used tank equipment. If they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have been in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > contact with filters, water, nets, etc. that have been used for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > non-native fish, you need to kill them and bury them to prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  introduction
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > of disease into American waters. It may be illegal to take them,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  depending
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > on your state laws and the species. If it is legal, and you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  a pond,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > put them in the pond. By pond, I mean a dirt pond, not plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  lined. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > also hope you have a fishing license or were legally fishing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Native
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > species are closely protected and even innocently taking them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  could be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > crime in your state. Since they are catfish, it is probably legal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  as long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > as you have a fishing license and keep it at all times because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  there might
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > not be a size or number limit on them. At this point it is most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  important
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to keep disease away from a local water source. You might also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  try a native
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > species forum or group to get more information. I might be wrong
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  about all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > of this legal stuff.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > just incase some people who may have been out for the 3 day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  weekend
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > i'm reposting this question.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > i have 10 fresh water catfish. they are under a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > inch big, with white bottom wiskers and a rounded tail. they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > came from a creek in kansas, we thought they where tadpoles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > till we put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > clearer water. they seem to love fish food. but should i be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > them other types of food like earthworms or something. we can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > live bloodworms where i live. they and are so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > cute. i have posted a picture under melanie's pics. any info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > anyone can share about care feeding water temps anything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > would be appreciated thanks. Melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3259 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No one is selling Bio-sipra anymore and I have no idea why so don't grill me on it. Seems something went wrong and they are sitting on it. Might be something with our own "Homeland security" and bio-crap ,, who knows... But all four outlets here in the valley stops selling. All you can get is cycle, maybe it's because it's live bacteria...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 5:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Which is better?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I vote for fishless, with bio spira if you can find it.  That would do it in a day or two.  But I hear bio spira is impossible to find.  Don't buy it out of date or unrefridgerated.  The other choice that I person I know has tested is called Fritz Zyme.  You might find it somewhere online for sale if it isn't sold near you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Good luck!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 3 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a fishless cycle, and if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3260 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I thought it was "Soft White Underbelly?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:03 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Snails and sick Dwarf Gourami

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No Paul, outside of Buffalo.  But Blue Oyster Cult plays the Navy Pier
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    almost every summer and we were gonna go this year, of couse, no show
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    this year.  They're last show there was caught on DVD, though.  It's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    called "A Long Day's Night"  If they play next year, we'll be there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe we could meet you for some fish shopping while there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Damaged and I like it.  It made me what I am!"



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3261 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Oh don't appologise , I was just stretching my mollusca legs.... Snails are cool, people just think they are vermin since they don't understand that all creatures need to have something to control their growth (except humans) ore they take over.. Didn't know you grow apple snails??? Ever get any albinos? Even partials ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Curious, what is your set-up and you must collect in the "EG"? love to hear the stories, we used to camp out on the hammocks off the "29", never found one ghost orchid...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:04 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I apologize, I was referring only to apple snails since that is what I breed.  You are right, I should make sure and be very clear.  No offense taken. Sometimes I live in my own little snail world lol.....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:14 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Greetings, Don't take this to heart BUT you would be erroneous to generalize snails as needing high level Ph to create their shells. Snails are found in all but a very few habitats worldwide. From abyssal plains of the ocean to tannic acid laden waters of the Amazonian drainage basin. To compare a snail in the everglades such as the applesnail with lives in the water at about 6.8-7.5Ph and have relativly thin shells to the tree snails (Liguus) which have zero contact with the water and live only on limbo gumbo trees and eat only the lichen which is about nuetral in Ph but have very strong shells.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A helmut shell (Cassidae) which is giant doesn't take it's calcium from the water as with most marine mollusca but from it's food (mostly sea urchins), you could stand on the shell it's that strong. Mark

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3262 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Some retirees' from low income levels, with severe respiratory problems can't afford an A/C or a fish tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    We live in the DC area where it gets quite hot & humid. We do have central air but I only run it when it gets unbearable. I'd rather spend my money on other things :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Patrick

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How anyone could live without a central air conditioning system is a mystery. :) It saves so many problems.






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3263 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Isn't the main ingredient aloe Vera? never figured how they connected that with fish slime coat other than both are slimy (so is snail slim) but they don't have to prove anything as once they state "Not for human consumption"  they basically can toss anything in a bottle or box and make any claim . Case in point is a "Herbal Fix" that comes in a blue bottle. It has Mallucca in it, that crap will make you break out in hives worse then poison ivy and will even cause death as some people get antiphalatic shock . But it's marketed as safe and natural. If it makes me break out like that think what happens to a fishes delicate gills...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Buyer beware. MJB
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: utacutie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:25 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Which is better?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I found out that Fritz Zyme's main office is in Mesquite, TX, about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    30 min from here. Do you think it's worth it to make the trip and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    get it or not?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "dave"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <frbstrd@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >  I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a fishless cycle,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > The only product that i have used that worked was bio spira the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    rest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is junk that includes cycle and any non refridgerated  cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > product. All that said if you can get hold of good established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > material you can instant cycle a tank I do it all the time -Dave




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3264 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Only from a friends with an established tank, many times when the filter element breaks down we put it in the back part of the filter then when a friend starts a new tank we donate it to the cause.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: utacutie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:07 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Which is better?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Where could I get the established filter material at? Also do they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sell any of these products at stores? We have a Petsmart, Petland
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and a few other places around here.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "dave"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <frbstrd@a...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >  I just got a new 29gallon tank. I also have a 10g that is still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > cycling with fish in it. Is it better to do a fishless cycle,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > so, how would I go about that? Thanks for your help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > The only product that i have used that worked was bio spira the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    rest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is junk that includes cycle and any non refridgerated  cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > product. All that said if you can get hold of good established
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > material you can instant cycle a tank I do it all the time -Dave




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3265 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: snails and clown loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Fine, they don't get in trouble until trouble looks for them, smart litttle guys. MJB
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 2:16 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: snails and clown loaches

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Okay, You've about sold me...how do those loaches do in a tank full
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of little guys, like tetras and guppies?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3266 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 12/31/2002 8:27:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Mark & Peta Bethke" <mbethke@...> writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >No one is selling Bio-sipra anymore and I have no idea why so don't grill me on it. Seems something went wrong and they are sitting on it. Might be something with our own "Homeland security" and bio-crap ,, who knows... But all four outlets here in the valley stops selling. All you can get is cycle, maybe it's because it's live bacteria...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I heard the plant that manufacturers it had a fire.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Has anyone checked their website, or parent company web site?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3267 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Yeah!! Swordtail fry are FINALLY getting their swords
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1st batch of swordtails turned 14 weeks old saturday. Its been a long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    14 1/2 weeks of waiting, for the males to get their swords. Only a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    few so far that I can see, hoping for aleast 6 males out of the 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fry. Need to find out at what age they start breeding. Don't want too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    many fry and unwanted fish. Sadly might have to turn some into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    feeders.Unless I can find homes for them. My single mom swordtail is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    on her 3 batch of fry should be due sometime later this month.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3268 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I found this ...... at this website

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://fishstoretn.com/bio_spira.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Currently Marineland has placed a HOLD on shipments of Freshwater Bio-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Spira in order to build sufficient levels to meet the unexpected
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    demands for this product. Therefore, we have suspended shipments of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    FW Bio-spira and can no longer accept orders for it until shipments
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    resume. Shipments are expected to resume by late summer. We apologize
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    for any inconveniences.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Mark & Peta Bethke" <mbethke@s...> writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No one is selling Bio-sipra anymore and I have no idea why so don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    grill me on it. Seems something went wrong and they are sitting on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it. Might be something with our own "Homeland security" and bio-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    crap ,, who knows... But all four outlets here in the valley stops
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    selling. All you can get is cycle, maybe it's because it's live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bacteria...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I heard the plant that manufacturers it had a fire.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Has anyone checked their website, or parent company web site?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3269 From: Patrick Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           I went to the Marineland website and it didn't say anything about when it would be available, but it had a full page about how great the stuff is.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I heard the plant that manufacturers it had a fire.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Has anyone checked their website, or parent company web site?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3270 From: bryants4god Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What does collect in the EG mean?  I have never seen a true albino apple snail.  Some people refer to the chestnut snail or yellow striped as albino, but a truly white with no pigment -- never even seen a picture of one.  I have 6 snail tanks with a total of 130 gallons right now but I am expanding.  I specialize in the harder to find colors, jade, purple, chestnut etc.  I have a lot of pictures on my web site if you want to take a look www.rainbowsnails.com  every snail pictured there belongs to me. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 7:39 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Oh don't appologise , I was just stretching my mollusca legs.... Snails are cool, people just think they are vermin since they don't understand that all creatures need to have something to control their growth (except humans) ore they take over.. Didn't know you grow apple snails??? Ever get any albinos? Even partials ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Curious, what is your set-up and you must collect in the "EG"? love to hear the stories, we used to camp out on the hammocks off the "29", never found one ghost orchid...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3271 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: High temps
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hey, Joe Gum, when my temps first started to go up to 84 in my ten gallon (even *with* central air - I live in Georgia, where AC is a necessity, not a luxury) I worried too. Turning off my lights during the day wasn't an option, or all of my plants would suffer; I get very little light in my aquarium from the room (plus I have driftwood in there, which gives the water an amber tint and seems to act like "sunglasses").
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So I tried partial water changes every couple of days, and opening up the feeder door, and once also tried an ice pack, but instead of putting it into my tank (I don't put anything non-fish-related into my tank if I can help it), I strapped it to the back of my hang-on filter. It actually helped a little, and I figured that it posed no risk for the fish, but didn't last long - it was melted after a short time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But I decided I was being ridiculous; it seems to me that in a tropical environment, these kinds of water temperatures would be normal... So right now my morning temps are varied, 76-78-80, and my evening temps are 80-82-84, with AC running all day at 76, and just from having the two 10W fluorescent bulbs lit and the filter going. Taking the glass top out from between the hood and the tank did seem to help keep the temps down to 82 or less. But with a gradual 4 degree change over the course of an entire day, my fish seemed happy enough. And from what I understand, the airstone helps the O2 from being depleted with the increased water temp, but doesn't lower the temp.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Are you keeping cool-water fish, like White Cloud Mountain Minnows, goldfish, or some other kind of species native to some colder climate? Actually, here in southeast Georgia where daytime temps are above 80 nine months out of the year, and our current daily temps are in the mid-nineties (approaching 100, today, although it did get down to 77 outside last night; it is now 8 PM and the temp outside is still 92!) I had a goldfish in my pond, outside in the sun, and the goldfish hung around on the bottom of the pond a lot, but still lived for several years on nothing but mosquito larvae and whatever else happened into the pond, before an owl or opossum or armadillo or raccoon apparently got him. I have five Golden White Cloud Mountain Minnows in there, now (and maybe my daughter Erin's pleco, but we can't see him with the algae and plants and all) and they seem happy as can be. They are always darting about in their little school. So I wouldn't worry too much about the temps; as long as it isn't a sudden change, they adapt.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Audrey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      PS I lost another female Dwarf Gourami today while I was at work; she was possibly old. She was definitely fat... she started out fat, and has just gotten fatter since I got her six weeks ago. She was also the dominant female and had picked on the smaller ones, at first, she and the male hogging all the food. Anyway, she had been sluggish for three days, and she had acted this way once before, and after one dose of Melafix seemed fine, but this time the Melafix doses didn't help. She had propped herself up on some plants this morning, and i was going to fish her out but she darted away, so I left her alone. Found her on the bottom dead this evening. I guess she got too fat for her own good and died of heart failure... or had that bloat thing. (Or ate something she shouldn't have. Maybe she had terminal gas from the zucchini, or got constipated from too many bloodworms. Or was full of eggs and too stubborn to spawn.) So now I am down to the male Dwarf Gourami, the youngest female, and one otocinclus. And of course the male, who has had his nest built for ages, and even relocated it, is now worrying the one remaining female all day long. Sigh...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message: 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:03:12 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: joegum <joegum@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is there some way to inexpensively keep the tank temp down in a room
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that isn't air-conditioned?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Some of the thing I've been doing are:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Shimming the fluorescent light fixtures to allow air to circulate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      under them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Shimming the lids to allow air to circulate under them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Removing the lid from my large waterfall-type external power filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to increase evaporation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Floating BLUE ICE packs in the tank. This only lowers the temp in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      my 55-gal by about 2 degrees.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Keeping a large fan blowing across the whole setup to increase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      evaporation and air flow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Adding an air-stone to increase evaporation, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Even with all this, on extremely hot days the temp can rise to 84 degrees.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks, -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3272 From: emijer Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi, I just got a new tank (someone was throwing it out). I believe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      it is 45-50 gallons if some one could help it would be great. It is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      36 inches long, 12 inches wide and 24 inches high. I bought a tetra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tec 300 filter with the heater option today and when got it home it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      does not go any where near the bottom of the tank. can I purchase a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      longer spout for the tank? or is there a better one that I should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      get? I have not set up this tank with fish yet.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now I have another tank with 5 cichilds and 1 lobster. We are going
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      away for a good 2 weeks and have no family nearby so I bought a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      battery operated fish feeder ($15.00) and have been trying it out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and so far I am not happy with it. Does anyone have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      suggestions? do the food blocks work or should I invest in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      $50.00-$60.00 digital one?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thank you all in advance,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Heidi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3273 From: bryants4god Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This will tell you the size you have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: emijer [mailto:emijer@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:45 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new tank

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi,  I just got a new tank (someone was throwing it out).  I believe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      it is 45-50 gallons if some one could help it would be great.  It is 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3274 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: snails Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am so flipping impressed.. i was like so grossed out by the thought of snails and just by looking at your cite make me want one of yours.. they are so cool looking... thanks for sharing.. i think we should all look at your cite cuase those are awsome pics.. thanks for sharing.. shannon who is debating finding out more about these pretty snails..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3275 From: Joseph Pascavage Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Snail and Fish Parasite
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        H'lo All,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I posted two scans from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Baensch Aquarium Atlas' describing the route of a parasite that can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        accompany a snail brought from outdoors.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        There's more on the subject, but it's been years since I've read
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        this book, and one of the elements I remember is an argument of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        theory as to whether or not there is a safe way to grow plants for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        aquariums that does not allow parasites in with plants. ( seems maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        most plants we buy are grown in outdoor pond-farms).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3276 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Yahoo! Groups FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium Files
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          H'lo AGAIN!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I forgot to post the title of the file;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Snail and Parasite
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Here's the link to the page, but you'll have to sign in to the group to view it, if you're interested.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/files/Snails%20and%20Parasite/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3277 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Which is better?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No, but that too would explain their absence. I just figured that it was an issue with live bacteria as the "Office of Homeland IN-Security" was just freaked out that we would launch an attack with this stuff. what could go wrong ??? We get cleaner drinking water, heaven forbid.... I know here in L.A. you can dip a rusty fender in our water and bring it out striped of all paint, well not al paint , you might have to scrub a bit....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 11:05 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Which is better?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 12/31/2002 8:27:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Mark & Peta Bethke" <mbethke@...> writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >No one is selling Bio-sipra anymore and I have no idea why so don't grill me on it. Seems something went wrong and they are sitting on it. Might be something with our own "Homeland security" and bio-crap ,, who knows... But all four outlets here in the valley stops selling. All you can get is cycle, maybe it's because it's live bacteria...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >  ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I heard the plant that manufacturers it had a fire.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Has anyone checked their website, or parent company web site?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mike



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3278 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh, us nature freaks use that for our call sign , Everglades=EG. Since we are not supposed to go out there and touch anything, unless we want to fish, then we can use dynamite.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Albino Snails aren't true white. Like most albinos the colors of the shell is just minus the pigment from the shell , enviromental conditions contribute to the color of some albinos, case in point is Strombus Alatus (Florida Fighting conch, not puigilus), off goodland you can find areas where there are numerous albino popluations, they are white but the comuella is yellow as the tanic acids from the mangroves cause a darkening of calcium where the mantle makes contact.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The molluscs of that area have been know for their albinistic forms to an extent that there is one even called citrina,, Oliva Sayana (Lined olive shell) Subspecies citrina, it's rare but does happen enough that it was published. My wife found two in one day much to another shellers arger as he had been going there for years and had not found one yet,,,, My wife has all the luck...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Let me take a look at your site, anyone who likes snails is super cool in my book (as if you were waiting to hear that), I've studied them for years , mostly marine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyways, you keep raising them , you'll have an albino, them you can name your price,,, say $200 to start, and that's for the empty shell in perfect condition, alive might be in the four figures...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark J. Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 11:52 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What does collect in the EG mean?  I have never seen a true albino apple snail.  Some people refer to the chestnut snail or yellow striped as albino, but a truly white with no pigment -- never even seen a picture of one.  I have 6 snail tanks with a total of 130 gallons right now but I am expanding.  I specialize in the harder to find colors, jade, purple, chestnut etc.  I have a lot of pictures on my web site if you want to take a look www.rainbowsnails.com  every snail pictured there belongs to me. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 7:39 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh don't appologise , I was just stretching my mollusca legs.... Snails are cool, people just think they are vermin since they don't understand that all creatures need to have something to control their growth (except humans) ore they take over.. Didn't know you grow apple snails??? Ever get any albinos? Even partials ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Curious, what is your set-up and you must collect in the "EG"? love to hear the stories, we used to camp out on the hammocks off the "29", never found one ghost orchid...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3279 From: joegum Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          WOW!!!! SO MANY GREAT RESPONSES!!! I"M OVERWHELMED!!! THANK YOU!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          For those who wanted more info...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This is a 55-gallon tank. It houses one betta, three white clouds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          one small but rapidly growing plecostomus, one ghost shrimp and about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          twenty or so (I guess) snails including ramshorn, pond and cone. There
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          are several types of live plants as well as artificial. I use a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          combination undergravel filter with powerheads, one large external
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          waterfall-type power filter, diatom filter with diatom powder and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          carbon, one airstone with its own air pump. I think I'm going to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          adding a second smaller external waterfall-type power filter with only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          AMAZON RIVER PEAT PELLETS to see if this will influence my ever climbing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          pH. I too live in Pennsylvania (near Pittsburgh). My place is an old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          grocery store that I've converted into my home. It's now almost a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          loft-type apt thing. The building is one story with a foundation and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          block walls. The aquarium is lo0carted near the center of the largest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          room (29' x 25').

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've also had another thought. Ray pointed out that many hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          keep air pumps in the garage and that it cools the tanks down too much.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I wonder..... My basement is an almost constant 58 degrees year
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          round. If I placed a diaphragm air pump in the basement, ran a line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (with check valve) up to an air stone in the tank, if this would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          enough to lower the temp.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3280 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have twin marineland 330's , work great along with a 40 GPH power head. I flush the filter elements once a week or when they get brown, I never touch the biowheels. The filter elements made by penguin are better, they are stamped series 133 on the top of the plastic, they have a larger filter area, but the penguin filter is not as good as the marnieland, just the filter element. MJB
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 2:05 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Filters

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyone have any opinions on filters?  We are looking for a new hang on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the back type, and are looking at the wet/dry filters.  Are they any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          good, or should i go with the basic design (such as the aqua clear?).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am looking at getting a 55-75 gal tank for an oscar, so would need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a filter to accomodate that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Carly



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3281 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          UGF are old school , retain garbage in the substrate and are basically a PITA.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:10 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Filters

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             I had a 20 gallon tank as a sump-reservoir for a 75 gallon tank, because I'd learned UGF's were'nt good to plants. The pre-filter, which hung on the back of the tank was a hazard to fish, since fry and adults could curiosly find themselves pulled through the siphons that directed water to a hollow-cylindrical-sponge that acted as a small colonization spot for bacteria, and a guard against fish being pulled into the hole and tube to the spray-bar that distributed water to the DLS/Polyester-coil, that was the major structure for bacterial colonization.  Back to the beginning of this letter, the pre-filter I had just happened to be small enough to allow one of those immersible, covered by a nylon-net, two pieces of rectangular plastic-with four plastic sticks that fit into four holes in each rectangle thingys/fry-protectorates, to fit over it. That little mesh-cage would keep fry and fish out of the pre-filter spillway, and could be drawn-up to about the le! vel of the top of the  75-gallon tank. The two-little stainless-steel tabs that were for hanging the cage over the tank-side, I removed,  and looped rubber-bands (usually green) through the holes left by the rivets, and wound the other end of the bands over the plastic adjustment screws on the pre-filter to hold the basket to the maximum possible height. I don't think this rig was bad, and not being current to state of the art conversation on the subject of filters, and being a soul that thought UGF's were a good thing ( I had a 70 gallon tank with an full-bottom UGF and eventually 2 goldfish next to my trickle tank) I don't know what should be as far as filtration is concerned. Not having statistics or science about UGF's, Trickle, Bio-Wheel, etc., I feel UGF's  and Trickle filters, the size I had, offer more filter area than the bio-wheels etc., but all I have is an apparently uneducated perception .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Anyone have any opinions on filters? We are looking for a new hang on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the back type, and are looking at the wet/dry filters. Are they any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > good, or should i go with the basic design (such as the aqua clear?).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I am looking at getting a 55-75 gal tank for an oscar, so would need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > a filter to accomodate that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3282 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm a tenant in  duplex, and have access to the basement, and the basement is a mold/mildew hell as far as I can tell. If you're drawing air from a very damp (among other things) basement like this one, I'd think about supersaturating the tank with spores.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > WOW!!!! SO MANY GREAT RESPONSES!!! I"M OVERWHELMED!!! THANK YOU!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > For those who wanted more info...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > This is a 55-gallon tank. It houses one betta, three white clouds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > one small but rapidly growing plecostomus, one ghost shrimp and about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > twenty or so (I guess) snails including ramshorn, pond and cone. There
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > are several types of live plants as well as artificial. I use a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > combination undergravel filter with powerheads, one large external
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > waterfall-type power filter, diatom filter with diatom powder and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > carbon, one airstone with its own air pump. I think I'm going to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > adding a second smaller external waterfall-type power filter with only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > AMAZON RIVER PEAT PELLETS to see if this will influence my ever climbing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > pH. I too live in Pennsylvania (near Pittsburgh). My place is an old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > grocery store that I've converted into my home. It's now almost a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > loft-type apt thing. The building is one story with a foundation and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > block walls. The aquarium is lo0carted near the center of the largest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > room (29' x 25').
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I've also had another thought. Ray pointed out that many hobbyists
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > keep air pumps in the garage and that it cools the tanks down too much.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I wonder..... My basement is an almost constant 58 degrees year
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > round. If I placed a diaphragm air pump in the basement, ran a line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (with check valve) up to an air stone in the tank, if this would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > enough to lower the temp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3283 From: bryants4god Date: 7/6/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I would love to breed a true albino.  Thanks everyone for the comments on my site, I really love snails and I enjoy my snail business. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am in south Texas so I don't think we have EG, lol..  We have creeks and beaches but I don't think that counts.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 12:02 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh, us nature freaks use that for our call sign , Everglades=EG. Since we are not supposed to go out there and touch anything, unless we want to fish, then we can use dynamite.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Albino Snails aren't true white. Like most albinos the colors of the shell is just minus the pigment from the shell , enviromental conditions contribute to the color of some albinos, case in point is Strombus Alatus (Florida Fighting conch, not puigilus), off goodland you can find areas where there are numerous albino popluations, they are white but the comuella is yellow as the tanic acids from the mangroves cause a darkening of calcium where the mantle makes contact.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The molluscs of that area have been know for their albinistic forms to an extent that there is one even called citrina,, Oliva Sayana (Lined olive shell) Subspecies citrina, it's rare but does happen enough that it was published. My wife found two in one day much to another shellers arger as he had been going there for years and had not found one yet,,,, My wife has all the luck...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Let me take a look at your site, anyone who likes snails is super cool in my book (as if you were waiting to hear that), I've studied them for years , mostly marine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyways, you keep raising them , you'll have an albino, them you can name your price,,, say $200 to start, and that's for the empty shell in perfect condition, alive might be in the four figures...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark J. Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3284 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the tube is not supposed to reach the bottom of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank. it should be in the middle. if you want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          keep the bottom clean, invest 25 bucks in an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          undergravel filter and a good airpump.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- emijer <emijer@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Hi, I just got a new tank (someone was throwing it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > out). I believe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it is 45-50 gallons if some one could help it would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > be great. It is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 36 inches long, 12 inches wide and 24 inches high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I bought a tetra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tec 300 filter with the heater option today and when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > got it home it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > does not go any where near the bottom of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > can I purchase a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > longer spout for the tank? or is there a better one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > that I should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > get? I have not set up this tank with fish yet.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Now I have another tank with 5 cichilds and 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > lobster. We are going
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > away for a good 2 weeks and have no family nearby
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > so I bought a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > battery operated fish feeder ($15.00) and have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > trying it out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and so far I am not happy with it. Does anyone have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > suggestions? do the food blocks work or should I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > invest in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > $50.00-$60.00 digital one?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Thank you all in advance,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Heidi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3285 From: Tom Reagin Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: BioSpira
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I hope I not spreading false rumors, but I understand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that Marineland had manufacturing difficulties and was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          unable to produce. I also understood that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          expected to resolve the difficulties and reintroduce
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          sales of the product. I hope so as I found it an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          effective product meeting its advertising claims.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Some what unique in this field of endeavor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If someone would correct any misinformation, I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          appreciate it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          TomR

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          =====
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          104 Church Street
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Decatur, GA 30030

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Voice (404)378-3694
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Fax (404)373-0741



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3286 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: evaporation?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There is one catch to simply replacing evaporated water which I discovered, it relayed to CO2 and KH.  I have a C02 injected plant tank and I keep the hardness as high as I can to maximize CO2 injection.  that means aroun KH 8-9 at PH 7.    I use fans and evaporative cooling to keep my tanks cool. As a result they tend to evaporate more than average.   I have to add 5 gallons every 3-4 days.  SO what happenend was that despite the fact I was add R/O water ( KH 1)  I was still increasing the hardness of the tank water because the evaporated water has 0 hardness.  So over a few weeks I managed to get my KH to 11 and as a result some fish died apparently from lack of oxygen due to exessively high CO2.       Basically keep in mind that by simply replacing evaporated water without removing any you are accumulating the dissolved material in the tank.  This could be  a wide variety of chemicals depending on your local water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Andreas 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 7/6/2004 5:19:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, Witchywmn42@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 7/6/2004 4:51:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, utacutie@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What do you do when the water in the tank evaporates?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You top off the tank with water that has been treated the same way that you treat water for water changes. I find it handy to keep a supply of water (about 1 gallon or so) mixed up. If keeping water for a period of time, you'll need to make sure the water doesn't stagnate. Putting in an air stone or diffuser that is hooked to an airpump should do the trick, and keep it from growing mold or mildew.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3287 From: falln_seraph Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hello, all!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have an aquarium of African Cichlids...they are still small, only a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          couple of inches long each (there are currently 7 of them). The tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          is 29 gallons. I have an undergravel filter, a cartridge filter and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a biowheel cartridge filter, so filtration is plentiful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          How often do you think I should I do water changes? Some places on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the web recommend bi-weekly, others weekly, and others every two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          weeks with lots of filtration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'd appreciate any thoughts...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3288 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hello Joe G, Neither your Diatom filter, ammo chips, nor biosphere plant food is making your water bounce back up into the alkaline range after you dose it with pH Down. As Nim pointed out, this is due solely to the buffering capacity of your alkaline water  (and the minerals in it) and will start coming up again in short time. ThIs of course is not good for the fish. You may indeed use peat moss in your filter to bring down the pH as well as soften it and it will be perfectly harmless to most all tank inhabitants you've listed: the only one I'm not sure of is the ghost shrimp which may (or may not) require alkaline water. Perhaps someone else can fill you in on that. The tannins from the peat will not harm the fish; it is the tannic acid which lowers the pH. The tea-color discoloration can be remove with fresh carbon in your filter. You'll have to be careful when making water changes and will probably have to pre-treat your new water with peat or the tank may bounce back up again. You might be better off having the fish acclimate to your alkaline water instead, or pick up an R/O unit to cut your tap water with this unit's soft water, which will decrease the tap water's buffering capacity. Added amounts of pH down will eventually work, but is hard on the fish, and stronger acids (in solution) such as muriatic acid will work, as has been recently discussed, but you have to be careful  handling it and you're back to the same problem when you do a water change. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3289 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Falln, It is recommended you do partial water changes at least weekly for best maintenance; 10% - 20% (or more). If you can do water changes twice a week, so much the better. I do not recommend the use of an undergravel filter for use with African cichlids as by the very nature in which they operate -- they break down normally harmful waste and uneaten food via aerobic bacteria (which is much better than having these products broken down via anaerobic bacteria, agreed), but this process slowly turns the water acid and you will constantly be trying to maintain an alkaline balance by water changes, which may be like trying to fight a losing battle. First of all, with African (Rift Lake) Cichlids, I hope you are using a substrate of either dolomite or crushed coral to help promote a hard, alkaline environment as Malawi Cichlids like a pH of around 8.2, and Tanganyikan Cichlids around pH 9.0. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3290 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hi, I just got two 1 year old pacu and I would like to know why every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          time I turn the light on for a wail to watch them they ram the light,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          can anyone tell me?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Plus I have an oscar and I was giving him feeder guppys. They seem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          not to be filling him now, should I go up to a feeder fish that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bigger?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3291 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Greetings to all,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Le me start by mentioning that we discussed this topic just about a month ago.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The fish we buy have been raised with Ph levels around 7.4 as the fish farms are in Florida (mostly) and the water there is filtered thru calcium carbonate (naturally accruing) plus the fish are then kept at your local fish store which is using water from your own source so they are better off staying with the Ph you have . Trying to force the Ph lower is a test of wills of which you'll lose and so will the fish as practically nothing is more harmful then bouncing the Ph up and down.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Toss the book out the window, follow common sense practices, use the ph you have in your water source.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The following are some ground rules passed on to me buy a older fishkeeper many, many years back and still hold true.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1) Figure out the required amount of filtration you need for the tank you want and double it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2) Use live plants, they serve many purposes , filtration, nutrient balance and a ready food source and almost all fish eat vegetable matter from time to time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3) Don't wage war against the Ph in your own water system, you'll only get frustrated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4) Fish can't read , thusly don't apply everything you read past your own observation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          5) keep a log (journal), fish problems, water changes, temperatures, feeding changes, disease problems,algae blooms/problems, you'd be surprised how much you can learn for your own notes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          6) Keep fish you are confident with, don't try and start with Discus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          7) everyone's got an opinion, they are like pennies, we all have them and would give them out quickly (just like this opinion).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          8)complex problems require a simple solution.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hope this helps, I'll probably eat lead for this but it's all true.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 6:05 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH questions

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hello Joe G, Neither your Diatom filter, ammo chips, nor biosphere plant food is making your water bounce back up into the alkaline range after you dose it with pH Down. As Nim pointed out, this is due solely to the buffering capacity of your alkaline water  (and the minerals in it) and will start coming up again in short time. ThIs of course is not good for the fish. You may indeed use peat moss in your filter to bring down the pH as well as soften it and it will be perfectly harmless to most all tank inhabitants you've listed: the only one I'm not sure of is the ghost shrimp which may (or may not) require alkaline water. Perhaps someone else can fill you in on that. The tannins from the peat will not harm the fish; it is the tannic acid which lowers the pH. The tea-color discoloration can be remove with fresh carbon in your filter. You'll have to be careful when making water changes and will probably have to pre-treat! your new water with peat or the tank may bounce back up again. You might be better off having the fish acclimate to your alkaline water instead, or pick up an R/O unit to cut your tap water with this unit's soft water, which will decrease the tap water's buffering capacity. Added amounts of pH down will eventually work, but is hard on the fish, and stronger acids (in solution) such as muriatic acid will work, as has been recently discussed, but you have to be careful  handling it and you're back to the same problem when you do a water change. Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3292 From: falln_seraph Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          thank you for all your comments!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          well, pH is not a problem...my tap water is very, very basic...so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          much so that I had to use a product to knock it down to the mid-8's,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          so that seems to do well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I had no clue that the undergravel filter would be a problem...how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          much of an issue is it? I hate to take apart the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (especially since it's been running less than a week) but I want the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          very best environment possible for my fish...they seem very active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and healthy at the moment, as I did my homework, but I know that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          there's lots of little things that only experienced people know, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          any insight is welcome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Should I just shut off the undergravel (and leave the bio wheel and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the cartridge running) or is it that much of an issue?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3293 From: Patrick Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Since the tank is only a week old, move almost all the water to buckets with the fish.  Take out any plants and decorations, pull out the plates, and spread the gravel back where it was.  Replace the decorations and half the old water and half new, treated water.  Let it settle for a few minutes and then replace the fish.  Make sure the gravel stays moist and the bio-wheel and any filter cartridges wet.  You will need a good power filter or canister filter to go with the tank if you decide to do this.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't think pH will be a problem with a ugf.  pH does tend to go down in tanks as they age.  The problems with ugf's is A. no rooted plants because they clog the plates; B. cichlids dig the gravel off of them; and C. you have to go to a lot of trouble to suck the junk under the plates through the lift tubes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            thank you for all your comments!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            well, pH is not a problem...my tap water is very, very basic...so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            much so that I had to use a product to knock it down to the mid-8's,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            so that seems to do well. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I had no clue that the undergravel filter would be a problem...how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            much of an issue is it?  I hate to take apart the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (especially since it's been running less than a week) but I want the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            very best environment possible for my fish...they seem very active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and healthy at the moment, as I did my homework, but I know that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            there's lots of little things that only experienced people know, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            any insight is welcome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Should I just shut off the undergravel (and leave the bio wheel and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the cartridge running) or is it that much of an issue?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3294 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: High temps (and loss of dwarf gouramis)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/6/2004 8:27:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, arch1574@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            PS I lost another female Dwarf Gourami today while I was at work; she was possibly old.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            :( Sorry to hear that, mom. You're not having much luck with your female Gouramis, are you? Are those the ones you ordered online, or had you gotten those from one of the local stores?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Chatham Pets and Aquariums sometimes has some of the dwarf gouramis in. Her stock varies whenever I go in there, but last time I was in (last week, when I was looking for balloon mollies and another platy) she had some healthy looking dwarf gouramis. Of all the local (non-chain) pet stores, I think I like her store the best ... she refuses to keep her bettas in those horrible plastic cups. Instead, she has one betta per tank, housed with community fish. They certainly look a lot better at her store than they do at the big chain store ... their fins are prettier. She also flat out told me that tetras are NOT good for our tank, because we have hard water. The people at Exotic Underworlds are very informative too... that's where I ended up buying my two newest fish. They keep their stock in mixed breed tanks, with fish that do well together housed together, and if you ask them for fish that do well with your current fish, they have some great ideas. (And they have their pond stuff in the store right next door, with an opening between the two stores.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I was wondering if you were going to offer how you keep your tank temps from getting too high, your house is always a lot warmer than mine is. *grin* I'm a wimp, I have to have my thermostat set at 72 or 73 during the day, and push it close to 80 for night-time. You also use those fluorescent bulbs, and I thought they put off more heat than the incandescents did.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3295 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/7/2004 2:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, setokaibarules2002@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I just got two 1 year old pacu and I would like to know why every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            time I turn the light on for a wail to watch them they ram the light,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            can anyone tell me?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            How close is your light to the water that the fish are able to ram the light??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Or am I completely clueless, and are those REALLY BIG FISH? Just curious, as I can't wrap my mind around the concept of the fish ramming the light.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3296 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            they most likely think you are abouyt to feed them and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are just going toward your hand, but that light should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            be on for 10-14 hours and off the rest of the night,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > In a message dated 7/7/2004 2:57:03 PM Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > setokaibarules2002@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > I just got two 1 year old pacu and I would like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > know why every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > time I turn the light on for a wail to watch them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > they ram the light,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > > can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > How close is your light to the water that the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > are able to ram the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > light??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Or am I completely clueless, and are those REALLY
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > BIG FISH? Just curious, as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I can't wrap my mind around the concept of the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ramming the light.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > my LiveJournal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3297 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the "junk" under the uplift tubes does not need to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            removed, in fact the less you bother it the better for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the tank. i have seen tanks over 10 years old where
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the undergravel has never been cleaned out, and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are the healthiest you will ever find.





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3298 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            under gravel filters are excellent, i have no problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            with my breeding tank. i have no back filtration on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it, just an undergravel filter and 25 or so live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            plants. i run a nice strong airpump on it, and my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            plants do extremely well, as do the fish. i have bred
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            live bearers as well as angels and coris.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- falln_seraph <falln_seraph@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > thank you for all your comments!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > well, pH is not a problem...my tap water is very,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > very basic...so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > much so that I had to use a product to knock it down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > to the mid-8's,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > so that seems to do well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I had no clue that the undergravel filter would be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > problem...how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > much of an issue is it? I hate to take apart the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > (especially since it's been running less than a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > week) but I want the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > very best environment possible for my fish...they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > seem very active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > and healthy at the moment, as I did my homework, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I know that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > there's lots of little things that only experienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > people know, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > any insight is welcome.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Should I just shut off the undergravel (and leave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the bio wheel and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the cartridge running) or is it that much of an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > issue?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3299 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i agree that you may not want to use the ug filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            with cichlids, but not with the reason. the ug filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            will not effect your ph, but the cichlids will uncover
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it conststantly.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Falln, It is recommended you do partial water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > changes at least weekly for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > best maintenance; 10% - 20% (or more). If you can do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > water changes twice a week,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > so much the better. I do not recommend the use of an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > undergravel filter for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > use with African cichlids as by the very nature in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > which they operate -- they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > break down normally harmful waste and uneaten food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > via aerobic bacteria (which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is much better than having these products broken
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > down via anaerobic bacteria,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > agreed), but this process slowly turns the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > acid and you will constantly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > be trying to maintain an alkaline balance by water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > changes, which may be like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > trying to fight a losing battle. First of all, with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > African (Rift Lake)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Cichlids, I hope you are using a substrate of either
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > dolomite or crushed coral to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > help promote a hard, alkaline environment as Malawi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Cichlids like a pH of around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > 8.2, and Tanganyikan Cichlids around pH 9.0. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3300 From: paul helms Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i have responded to a couple of the replies sent to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            you, the ug filter will be fine if you make sure to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            put in a lot of large rock pieces fot the fish to hide
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in. i used to run an african tank with 18 africans
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and 3 figure 8's, it did great for 2 years until i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            sold them off. i used a ug filter, an aqua clear 300,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and a fluval 304 that i had laying around.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- falln_seraph <falln_seraph@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Hello, all!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I have an aquarium of African Cichlids...they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > still small, only a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > couple of inches long each (there are currently 7 of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > them). The tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > is 29 gallons. I have an undergravel filter, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > cartridge filter and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > a biowheel cartridge filter, so filtration is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > plentiful.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > How often do you think I should I do water changes?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Some places on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > the web recommend bi-weekly, others weekly, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > others every two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > weeks with lots of filtration.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > I'd appreciate any thoughts...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3301 From: traceyhanson Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: clown loach question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am fairly new to keeping fish, but so far (thanks to reading your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            forum lots and getting heaps of advice) apart from one very bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            experience with Ich I seem to be keeping my fish alive and happy!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I do have one question though - I have a community tank which amongst
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            other fish contains 2 clown loaches (my favourite fish!) and a red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tailed shark. The red tailed shark is quite big but seems fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            content with the other fish - harrasses new fish for a while then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ignores them again, but has never really taken much notice of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            loaches. Recently however one of the clown loaches (always the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            one) has started swimming right beside the shark - ie up against its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            side and follows it all over the tank for long periods of time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            While it is up against its side it seems to try and take nips at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            sharks head/eyes. It doesnt do this to any of the other fish. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            doesnt seem to be sick (there are no spots, or anything unusual in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            its apperance). Is this normal and I just let it continue, or do I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            try and stop it - if so how????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for the help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Tracey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3302 From: joegum Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            / hadn't thought about contamination from the basement. Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -joe g./
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3303 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/7/2004 2:43:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Danielle L Baldwin" <setokaibarules2002@...> writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Hi, I just got two 1 year old pacu and I would like to know why every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >time I turn the light on for a wail to watch them they ram the light,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Plus I have an oscar and I was giving him feeder guppys. They seem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >not to be filling him now, should I go up to a feeder fish that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >bigger?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            When I had a pacu it would spook VERY easily and would run into everything. Broke two heaters before I went to stainless steel.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think that the light just comes on too suddenly for them and they react by speeding away. Perhaps letting them wake up a bit slowly before having a bright light on them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Are they in a dark room when you turn the light on?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As far as the oscar, you may want to convert it over to pelleted food. Less chance of catching something from the feeder fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3304 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: got some pics of my aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I took a couple of digital photos of my aquarium a few minutes ago, and got them added to my website's photos page. If you're interested, here is the link ... http://www.celticparents.com/photos.html ... the page should take a minute to load, max, on a dial up connection.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The pics of the aquarium are at the very bottom. I tried (very unsuccessfully) to get some pics of my daughter's betta too, but since the 2 gallon tank isn't lit, I couldn't get any decent shots of him. For that matter, the pics of my aquarium turned out well except that the fish themselves are colored blurs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (My digital camera doesn't have a zoom lens, and doesn't like movement ... or the color white. Very finicky piece of equipment, but I can't complain too much since it was free.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3305 From: joegum Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The pH is so high it's not measurable where it's at. Even after adding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            10 drops of acidifier, it's still not on the chart. My tap water tastes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            like mineral water. I think I will use a peat filter. I;ll use it for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            longer and longer periods every day until I see what effect it's having.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In fact, the label on the AMAZON RIVER PEAT PELLETS describes the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            product as "All Fish Safe." I'll monitor the pH closely. What I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            probably wind up doing is making very small daily or every-other-day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            water changes rather than large weekly ones. Thank you everyone for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            your help. -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3306 From: Patrick Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: clown loach question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I say let it go.  RTS are such mean fish it balances out the entire tank to have a clown loach defend itself. :)  A serious suggestion: If the shark is being hurt, you might need to find it a new home.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am fairly new to keeping fish, but so far (thanks to reading your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              forum lots and getting heaps of advice) apart from one very bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              experience with Ich I seem to be keeping my fish alive and happy!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I do have one question though - I have a community tank which amongst
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              other fish contains 2 clown loaches (my favourite fish!) and a red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tailed shark.  The red tailed shark is quite big but seems fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              content with the other fish - harrasses new fish for a while then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ignores them again, but has never really taken much notice of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              loaches.  Recently however one of the clown loaches (always the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              one) has started swimming right beside the shark - ie up against its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              side and follows it all over the tank for long periods of time. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              While it is up against its side it seems to try and take nips at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sharks head/eyes.  It doesnt do this to any of the other fish.  It
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              doesnt seem to be sick (there are no spots, or anything unusual in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              its apperance).  Is this normal and I just let it continue, or do I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              try and stop it - if so how????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for the help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Tracey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3307 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: High temps (and loss of dwarf gouramis)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Dwarf Gouramis are another failure in the genetics war. Once strong species is now very weak. I have yet to find many that will last more than a few months, And no it's not my set-up as I have some more delicate , rare species that do fine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The worst is he powder blue.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              MJB
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 9:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: High temps (and loss of dwarf gouramis)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/6/2004 8:27:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, arch1574@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              PS I lost another female Dwarf Gourami today while I was at work; she was possibly old.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              :( Sorry to hear that, mom. You're not having much luck with your female Gouramis, are you? Are those the ones you ordered online, or had you gotten those from one of the local stores?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Chatham Pets and Aquariums sometimes has some of the dwarf gouramis in. Her stock varies whenever I go in there, but last time I was in (last week, when I was looking for balloon mollies and another platy) she had some healthy looking dwarf gouramis. Of all the local (non-chain) pet stores, I think I like her store the best ... she refuses to keep her bettas in those horrible plastic cups. Instead, she has one betta per tank, housed with community fish. They certainly look a lot better at her store than they do at the big chain store ... their fins are prettier. She also flat out told me that tetras are NOT good for our tank, because we have hard water. The people at Exotic Underworlds are very informative too... that's where I ended up buying my two newest fish. They keep their stock in mixed breed tanks, with fish that do well together housed together, and if you ask them for fish that do well with your current fish, they have some great ideas. (And they have their pond st! uff in the store right next door, with an opening between the two stores.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I was wondering if you were going to offer how you keep your tank temps from getting too high, your house is always a lot warmer than mine is. *grin* I'm a wimp, I have to have my thermostat set at 72 or 73 during the day, and push it close to 80 for night-time. You also use those fluorescent bulbs, and I thought they put off more heat than the incandescents did.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3308 From: secretlaw Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: clown loach question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think this is normal for clown loaches. In fact, they like to swim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              together and the red tailed shark looks similar to the clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              loaches. I have 9 clown loaches myself and they always stay together
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and once awhile, they swim side by side to other fish. As long as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the other fish don't get hurt, I would leave it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I say let it go. RTS are such mean fish it balances out the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              entire tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to have a clown loach defend itself. :) A serious suggestion: If
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the shark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > is being hurt, you might need to find it a new home.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I am fairly new to keeping fish, but so far (thanks to reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > forum lots and getting heaps of advice) apart from one very bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > experience with Ich I seem to be keeping my fish alive and happy!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I do have one question though - I have a community tank which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              amongst
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > other fish contains 2 clown loaches (my favourite fish!) and a red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > tailed shark. The red tailed shark is quite big but seems fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > content with the other fish - harrasses new fish for a while then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ignores them again, but has never really taken much notice of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > loaches. Recently however one of the clown loaches (always the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > one) has started swimming right beside the shark - ie up against
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > side and follows it all over the tank for long periods of time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > While it is up against its side it seems to try and take nips at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > sharks head/eyes. It doesnt do this to any of the other fish. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > doesnt seem to be sick (there are no spots, or anything unusual in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > its apperance). Is this normal and I just let it continue, or do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > try and stop it - if so how????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks for the help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tracey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3309 From: Patrick Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "i have seen tanks over 10 years old where the undergravel has never been cleaned out, and they are the healthiest you will ever find."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't doubt the existence of such a tank, but if it was healthy, it must have been heavily planted.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "i have no back filtration on it, just an undergravel filter and 25 or so live plants.  i run a nice strong airpump on it, and my plants do extremely well, as do the fish."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The filter is probably doing very little work in the tank if those are rooted plants.  I have had plants in my 1 gallon that filled the plate with roots enough that there was little chance of water flow through the gravel.  The plants are doing all of the bio and chemical filtration.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "the ug filter will be fine if you make sure to put in a lot of large rock pieces fot the fish to hide in."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Big problem with large rocks on a ugf: they block large sections of the gravel and prevent flow.  That would basically mean you have a fancy air stone. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "the ug filter will not effect your ph, but the cichlids will uncover it conststantly."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree 100% with that.  There are many bad things about ugf's that I agree with, but that is not one of them.  And I am no opponent of them.  I really do like ugf's for tanks 10 gallons and under, I just wanted to share my experiences with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3310 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark, Glad to see there's some consensus in our posts. While I did explain how the pH could be lowered, I went on to say it would be best to acclimate/keep the fish in alkaline water. I really don't see the reasoning in trying to acclimate fish to acid water when all of the fish first mentioned will do just as well in alkaline water and it saves a lot of stress on the fish that would be subjected to possible stress if the pH bounces, even if is just during water changing. Joe G.; please note, its always best to buy fish that will accept your water conditions (and yours should) rather than try to keep changing your water to try to accomidate fish that require different water. Its different if you want to work with (spawn) a certain species that requires certain conditions, but even then, your better off trying to spawn a species more suited to your present (tap water) conditions. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3311 From: Danielle L Baldwin Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The Pacu are huge fish, well not to big. The size of thank we got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                them in makes them look smaller then what the lady had them in. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                light on the tank does come on little too fast, wondered if I put a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                dark see threw cloth under the light would it help? Seems the light
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                is what spooks them. They love my 2 year old, they watch each other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                all day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My oscar I'll convert him to cichlid pellets. I can't believe how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fast he is growing. He's getting pretty big, guess he's not mommies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                little babie anymore.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks for the advice guys, you all are the best.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Danielle and Dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3312 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Danielle, Sounds like your Pacus prefer the light off and want to turn it out to get a little more privacy! Seriously, I don't have a clue to this rather strange behavior, although many animals are attracted to light. Try a dimmer switch and turn the lights on gradually. As for the Oscar, you could probably go to feeder goldfish, but I would recommend weaning your Oscar over to high protein Cichlid Pellets, uncooked scraps (cut small) of any table fish you are eating, frozen fish foods, freeze-dried fish foods and the like. Sooner or later, you may unknowingly get a batch of feeder fish that are diseased and stand a chance of killing your Oscar with something you may not be able to cure in time. Not to mention the cost factor of larger (and more) feeder fish as the Oscar grows. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3313 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Falln, You could just shut the undergravel filter off, instead of ripping apart the tank set-up. Normally, you wouldn't see any pH changes due to the UG filter until after about six months of use. You could try using the UG filter, keeping an eye on the pH in the upcoming months. With a light fish load such as yours, there may not be too much of a problem. I just want to alert you to what can happen and what results in the use of an UG filter. Best of luck with the set-up. Let us know how it goes. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3314 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So true Ray,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you want to raise fish that require acidic water you'll have major problems as once they are out of your control (and in the fish store) they will surcome to the high Ph. Like Ray say'z , keep with what will work in your area. Simple solution to a complex problem...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So Ray, what do you keep???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                PS glad we are in the same camp on this one, level headed...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 2:33 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH questions

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark, Glad to see there's some consensus in our posts. While I did explain how the pH could be lowered, I went on to say it would be best to acclimate/keep the fish in alkaline water. I really don't see the reasoning in trying to acclimate fish to acid water when all of the fish first mentioned will do just as well in alkaline water and it saves a lot of stress on the fish that would be subjected to possible stress if the pH bounces, even if is just during water changing. Joe G.; please note, its always best to buy fish that will accept your water conditions (and yours should) rather than try to keep changing your water to try to accomidate fish that require different water. Its different if you want to work with (spawn) a certain species that requires certain conditions, but even then, your better off trying to spawn a species more suited to your present (tap water) conditions. Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3315 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Not big? Compared to what a Blue whale? They are huge. There is one at the local fish store that is about 25 lbs. Well if you are fishing for great whitre sharks you cpould use it for bait but really Pacu belong in oine place, the Amazon Drainage basin, not an aquarium. I have seen so many in these tanks that are 200 gl and it's still not enough room. they look like they are in solitary confinment. Also they are omnivores in the grandest sense of the word, they will eat anyhting, in fact their favorite food is fruit, yes fruit. They may look like red bellies but they aint. mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 2:37 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The Pacu are huge fish, well not to big. The size of thank we got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                them in makes them look smaller then what the lady had them in. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                light on the tank does come on little too fast, wondered if I put a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                dark see threw cloth under the light would it help? Seems the light
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                is what spooks them. They love my 2 year old, they watch each other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                all day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My oscar I'll convert him to cichlid pellets. I can't believe how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fast he is growing. He's getting pretty big, guess he's not mommies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                little babie anymore.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks for the advice guys, you all are the best.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Danielle and Dan



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3316 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           X-10 and Radio Shack have dimmers that can be applied easily to wall-switches and electrical outlets. I bought from both. They are (I believe) inexpensive. You can also buy remotes, that are also relatively inexpensive, that will dim and brighten wall-switch relationships, outlet-modules and lamp modules.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   One of the first things that hit me in the two,  800+ page books I bought when starting fish-keeping was that fish don't like sudden changes, including sudden light changes, hence the remotes and dimmers. There's also an element at X-10 called a 'Firecracker', that plugs into a serial-port. (I think---even though I've used it, I never got the hang of port nomenclatures/identity. )  If that port is occupied, you can remove the device from the plug and plug-in the 'Firecracker', which has the same receptability as the plug it's in, and re-insert the first plug you removed.. Anyway, with the software associated with the 'Firecracker', you get a display on your monitor identical to one of their remotes, and you can control a large host of lights/appliances from your computer.(The software is free, and downloaded from their site) (Does'nt work with flourescents though.)  They're always having some kind of special, so if you're interested, try their site, or Radio Shack, and compare prices.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ( I have no financial interest in either of the above. I just like their stuff.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > The Pacu are huge fish, well not to big. The size of thank we got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > them in makes them look smaller then what the lady had them in. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > light on the tank does come on little too fast, wondered if I put a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > dark see threw cloth under the light would it help? Seems the light
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > is what spooks them. They love my 2 year old, they watch each other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > all day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > My oscar I'll convert him to cichlid pellets. I can't believe how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fast he is growing. He's getting pretty big, guess he's not mommies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > little babie anymore.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > thanks for the advice guys, you all are the best.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Danielle and Dan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3317 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: ? for the person in wichita kansas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i'm not sure if it was this group or not but there was a person
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                who said they lived in wichita, if anyone lives there i'm gonna be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                there this weekend. (my birthday) =:O) and I wanted to find a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish store anyone with info on times and where they are can you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                please tell me. thank you melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3318 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark, I keep mostly South and Central American Cichlids, with a good variety of Angels. Also keep a number of Killifish. What do you have, Mark? Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3319 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: clown loach question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Tracy,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Even my clown loach used to do the same to my Red Tail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Shark but not always occassionaly and mostly during
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                feeding time...and for a while after feeding.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I did some rearrangements in the tank and introduced a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                few hiding spots with rocks and cave like formation
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                after which he got busy deciding which would be his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                hangout and so started ignoring the RTS.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ..Hope this helps...SuNnY !



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- traceyhanson <traceyhanson@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I am fairly new to keeping fish, but so far (thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to reading your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > forum lots and getting heaps of advice) apart from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > one very bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > experience with Ich I seem to be keeping my fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > alive and happy!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I do have one question though - I have a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tank which amongst
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > other fish contains 2 clown loaches (my favourite
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish!) and a red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tailed shark. The red tailed shark is quite big but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > seems fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > content with the other fish - harrasses new fish for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > a while then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ignores them again, but has never really taken much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > notice of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > loaches. Recently however one of the clown loaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > (always the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > one) has started swimming right beside the shark -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ie up against its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > side and follows it all over the tank for long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > periods of time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > While it is up against its side it seems to try and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > take nips at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > sharks head/eyes. It doesnt do this to any of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > other fish. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > doesnt seem to be sick (there are no spots, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > anything unusual in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > its apperance). Is this normal and I just let it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > continue, or do I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > try and stop it - if so how????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks for the help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Tracey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                =====




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3320 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: ???????? Can anyone tell me?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I used to feed dried tubifex worms, dried chunks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ( of beef liver / heart not sure) which my lfs did it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                at home. Twice i a week i also used to feed my oscars
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                small chunks of chicken meat.. they used to love them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                very much and grew too very fast....in fact they would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                grab it from my heart.. they very pretty majestic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fishes...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sadly my mom didnt appreciate their looks and so i had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to trade them to more colourful & pretty fishes ( my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                moms version ) like the angles, platys,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gouramis....etc.etc.. :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But they were real beauties....SuNnY !


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Danielle, Sounds like your Pacus prefer the light
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > off and want to turn it out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to get a little more privacy! Seriously, I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have a clue to this rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > strange behavior, although many animals are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > attracted to light. Try a dimmer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > switch and turn the lights on gradually. As for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Oscar, you could probably go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to feeder goldfish, but I would recommend weaning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > your Oscar over to high
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > protein Cichlid Pellets, uncooked scraps (cut small)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > of any table fish you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > eating, frozen fish foods, freeze-dried fish foods
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and the like. Sooner or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > later, you may unknowingly get a batch of feeder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish that are diseased and stand a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > chance of killing your Oscar with something you may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > not be able to cure in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > time. Not to mention the cost factor of larger (and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > more) feeder fish as the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Oscar grows. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                =====




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3321 From: joegum Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've asked at about 6 pet stores located within about 20 miles of me at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                what pH they keep their freshwater tanks. All replied 7.0. If my pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                is off the scale, possibly 8.0, 9.0, 10.0 or higher (who knows?), and ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                being (if I remember correctly) a logarithmic scale, I'm very concerned
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                with killing any new fish that I add to my tank by shocking them with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                such a huge pH change. Or, am I mistaken that a change of 1 or 2 or 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                full points in about half an hour or so isn't that big a deal? -jg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3322 From: Patrick Date: 7/7/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Going from 7 to 8 would probably kill many fish, and 7 to 9 or 10 would probably kill anything.  I think this is surely a case where you need to invest in an RO unit or be prepared to buy bottled water (52 cents/gallon at your lwm (local w-mart)).  I don't even know if a pH of 10 is safe to drink, but I see that that was an example you used.  You can buy high-range pH test kits from Aquarium Pharm. (doc wellfish).  I also doubt the lfs keeps their water at 7 unless they are using peat, an RO system, or bottled water, or they have a different water source than you have.  You never know, they may collect rain water (which you can do if you don't live in Detroit or have smog issues).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've asked at about 6 pet stores located within about 20 miles of me at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  what  pH they keep their freshwater tanks.  All replied 7.0.   If my pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  is off the scale, possibly 8.0, 9.0, 10.0 or higher (who knows?), and ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  being (if I remember correctly) a logarithmic scale, I'm very concerned
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  with killing any new fish that I add to my tank by shocking them with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  such a huge pH change.   Or, am I mistaken that a change of 1 or 2 or 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  full points in about half an hour or so isn't that big a deal?  -jg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3323 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: clown loach question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Or, I would suggest to get another clown loach. Lonely clowns do tend to go after some fish for their slime coat etc. I also had a similar problem with 2 5” RTS and 2 4” clowns. As soon as I got the 3rd companion, everything seemed fine and the clowns are busy clowning among themselves.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Patrick [mailto:americanfishguy@hotmail.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: 08 July 2004 01:59
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] clown loach question

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I say let it go.  RTS are such mean fish it balances out the entire tank to have a clown loach defend itself. :)  A serious suggestion: If the shark is being hurt, you might need to find it a new home.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nitrogen Cycle:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am fairly new to keeping fish, but so far (thanks to reading your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    forum lots and getting heaps of advice) apart from one very bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    experience with Ich I seem to be keeping my fish alive and happy!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I do have one question though - I have a community tank which amongst
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    other fish contains 2 clown loaches (my favourite fish!) and a red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tailed shark.  The red tailed shark is quite big but seems fairly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    content with the other fish - harrasses new fish for a while then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ignores them again, but has never really taken much notice of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    loaches.  Recently however one of the clown loaches (always the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    one) has started swimming right beside the shark - ie up against its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    side and follows it all over the tank for long periods of time. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    While it is up against its side it seems to try and take nips at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sharks head/eyes.  It doesnt do this to any of the other fish.  It
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    doesnt seem to be sick (there are no spots, or anything unusual in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    its apperance).  Is this normal and I just let it continue, or do I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    try and stop it - if so how????

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for the help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Tracey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3324 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick, I have myself had UG Filters for over 2-3 years continuous without any gravel vac for the entire period long time ago. The tank was sparsely planted with some swords, vallias and a couple of hygros. Frankly, that was the healthiest tank I ever had and was only 10 gallons. I had not known about fish disease until the day I decided to disrupt this system and remove the UG for a power filter. This was an air driven UG along with a small power filter. Air driven UG is not strong enough to choke the gravel over long periods of time but still does offer enormous biological filtration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Patrick [mailto:americanfishguy@hotmail.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 08 July 2004 02:26
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Water changes

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "i have seen tanks over 10 years old where the undergravel has never been cleaned out, and they are the healthiest you will ever find."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I don't doubt the existence of such a tank, but if it was healthy, it must have been heavily planted.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "i have no back filtration on it, just an undergravel filter and 25 or so live plants.  i run a nice strong airpump on it, and my plants do extremely well, as do the fish."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The filter is probably doing very little work in the tank if those are rooted plants.  I have had plants in my 1 gallon that filled the plate with roots enough that there was little chance of water flow through the gravel.  The plants are doing all of the bio and chemical filtration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "the ug filter will be fine if you make sure to put in a lot of large rock pieces fot the fish to hide in."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Big problem with large rocks on a ugf: they block large sections of the gravel and prevent flow.  That would basically mean you have a fancy air stone. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "the ug filter will not effect your ph, but the cichlids will uncover it conststantly."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I agree 100% with that.  There are many bad things about ugf's that I agree with, but that is not one of them.  And I am no opponent of them.  I really do like ugf's for tanks 10 gallons and under, I just wanted to share my experiences with them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Nitrogen Cycle:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3326 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mark & Peta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Bethke" <mbethke@s...> wrote:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Toss the book out the window, follow common sense practices,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thats the mosty sensible thing I've heard on a fish group!! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The following are some ground rules passed on to me buy a older
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fishkeeper many, many years back and still hold true.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 3) Don't wage war against the Ph in your own water system, you'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      only get frustrated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I've been told many times that a stable ph is the most important
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      thing, and that few fish need specific ph's

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 8)complex problems require a simple solution.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sounds good - i'd like to add

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      9) Stock the aquarium slowly, paying attention to new additions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      requirements (the web is great fir research here), keep good sized
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      schools where needed, keep it practical - you shouldn't have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      problems with overstocking.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      10) Small fish have a tendancy to be eaten by big fish

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      11) Use the internet to research fish needs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3327 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_roachus"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <daniel_roach@h...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 11) Use the internet to research fish needs


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      missed one:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      12) Quarentine tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3328 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Joe G., You're right about the pH values being on a logarythmic scale, and yes a change of .3 (point 3) in half an hour is not good for the fish. Lesser changes will be adapted to much easier, but still, an hour minumum is best. Most lfs take at least an hour when they "drip" the fish into their tanks, and then that's minumum only because they don't have more time. I doubt, however, that all stores in your area have 7.0 pH; I think they're feeding you a line just to appease you. A pH of 9 or 10 is really high unless you have well water as your tap water (do you?). some wells will produce pH's of 9, I've seen this. But are you sure your readings are accurate? What are you using to test your water -- test strips, drops, or . . ? Is it possible your test results are inaccurate? Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3329 From: traceyhanson Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: clown loach question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sounds like a good idea - any excuse to go and buy another loach! I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tried re-arranging the tank as well as suggested and it seemed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      keep everyone busy looking for new hangouts except this particular
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      loach. His favourite hangout is to lie on his side right at the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      front of the tank almost against the glass in full view of everyone.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      They have 2 hollow logs to hide in as well as a rock cave and he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      would rather be out in the open...I think maybe he is just a show-off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and likes all the attention. Thanks for all the advice - if he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      continues to do it after I get him another friend I will just ignore
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      it and consider it payback to the shark for being such a bully to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Tracey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Or, I would suggest to get another clown loach. Lonely clowns do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tend to go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > after some fish for their slime coat etc. I also had a similar
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      problem with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 2 5" RTS and 2 4" clowns. As soon as I got the 3rd companion,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > seemed fine and the clowns are busy clowning among themselves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3330 From: questnjurny Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi everyone,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I am really enjoying reading the list, and am learning all kinds of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      things! The big one being that if you read about snails for too long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      they will appear mysteriously in the tank. Nothing was added or put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in the tank, and voila two little snails...the kind that multiply and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      take over, so the goldies had a good breakfast.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anyways, I just picked up my 90gal which came complete with fish and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      kept the severum that came with it in the 90gal along with the pleco,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and moved Marlin the Oscar in with them. Marlin is a whole new fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      he is constantly up and swimming around and he and the sev are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      unseparable! I can now see why people say get a bigger tank and get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      your oscar a friend. As well two kribs, two angels and an unknown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cichlid came with the tank and I moved them into the 33gal. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hoping to figure out what kind of cichlid the unknown is (it is shaped
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      like a ram cichlid, and has the line through his eye, but no dot and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      his fins are shaped more like a severums fins) and get him/her a mate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      because he isn't looking very happy. As well I would like to add a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pair of firemouths and something that hangs out more mid level in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank because right now everyone but the angels are lower level. Would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a school of tetras work in here? Any suggestions would be welcome.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The tanks here sit at about a pH of 7.2.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3331 From: joegum Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There really aren't any "local" stores. Municipalities here can be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      supplied by the Allegheny River, the aquifer or "underground Allegheny,"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      various springs etc. The nearest fish store is approx. 8 miles. -Joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3332 From: Patrick Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I call anything within 20 miles local. :) 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Date: 07/08/04 18:52:47
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        There really aren't any "local" stores.  Municipalities here can be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        supplied by the Allegheny River, the aquifer or "underground Allegheny,"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        various springs etc.  The nearest fish store is approx. 8 miles.  -Joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3333 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: was clown loach question, now YoYo loach?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 7/8/2004 3:11:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Nimish Mathur" <nimmat4@...> writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Or, I would suggest to get another clown loach. Lonely clowns do tend to go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >after some fish for their slime coat etc. I also had a similar problem with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >2 5" RTS and 2 4" clowns. As soon as I got the 3rd companion, everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >seemed fine and the clowns are busy clowning among themselves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Does the same hold true for YoYo loaches?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        When I went to the LFS they only had two in stock. I got them and they seem to be doing well in my 55 gal tank. It is my soon to be planted tank, they have been rooting around a little bit in the gravel, and as near as I can tell they have been leaving my Endler's fry alone, but should I get a them a few more friends to make a 5 pack? Or are they ok as a pair?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3334 From: joegum Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi Ray!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I've tried various test solutions. Tonight, I tested my tank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        with both WARDLEY'S "Mid Range pH Indicator" and "pH Solution Indicator"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        by AQUARIUM PHARMACEUTICALS. Both results are at the extreme alkaline
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        range.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm afraid I really don't understand the objections to trying a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        small peat filter. Whatever change (if any) that would occur would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        very gradual. They recommend "at least one cup per 20 gallons of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        water." This is a 55-gallon tank and I'm only going to start with one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        cup for the entire system and then monitor for changes over the next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        week. Then, tweak up if necessary. I'm not interested in going to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        very acid side, just closer to neutral. Maybe I'll get this down to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        point where I'll be doing small water changes with unaltered tap water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        to keep the pH up a little.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks, -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3335 From: joegum Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I understand Patrick. I suppose that my point was that there are no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish stores that use our own municipal water supply. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3336 From: joegum Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Since I can't put the air pump in the basement, I've decided to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        putting it on the floor. It's bound to be several degrees cooler down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        there. -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3337 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo loach?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hey do you sell your endlers? i have 12 but would like to add some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        different patterns. if you sell them email me ck147@... with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        prices and stuff. thanks melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Does the same hold true for YoYo loaches?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > When I went to the LFS they only had two in stock. I got them and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        they seem to be doing well in my 55 gal tank. It is my soon to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        planted tank, they have been rooting around a little bit in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        gravel, and as near as I can tell they have been leaving my Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fry alone, but should I get a them a few more friends to make a 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        pack? Or are they ok as a pair?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3338 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I assume you've decided your basement is unsuitable for drawing cool air upstairs?  Since much of the information directed to help your problem is new to me, innovative if you will, bits of adaptive potential could be useful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           I guess you've heard of HEPA filters, and that they were allegedly developed during the developement of the atomic bomb to filter minute radioactive particles.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Respirator-filters (the mask-kind) would be the cheapest, unless you can find raw, pre-adapted filter material. Rigging a HEPA respirator filter to an air-pump could filter undesireable spores from your basement. Just make sure they are "True HEPA Filters".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Since I can't put the air pump in the basement, I've decided to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > putting it on the floor. It's bound to be several degrees cooler down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > there. -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3339 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Joe,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Just thought one of those styrofoam or plastic, styrofoam-insulated picnic-containers, large would be better,  with coiled vinyl tubing (not airline tubing, but that might work, but it would take a lot) inside, packed with ice/cubes/etc., as a sump, with water drawn from your aquarium could work. Place a power-head in the container with the tubing and ice, attach tubing to the outlet of the power headand channel the water into the aquarium. You'd need an overflow box just slightly below the aquarium water-line, with an outlet to bring the overflow into the picnic container. It's somewhat an engineering problem, and could take a lot of adjustment, so you don't dry run your sump, or cause an aquarium overflow. (That's basically the kind of rig I bought about 10 years ago for a tropical tank of 75 gallons, but my sump area was a 20 gallon tank. . It's called a trickle filter.   OR, you could do the same thing with ice and tubing, and circulate AIR through the ice-packed tubing, in which case you'd have to buy a coiled-drum of air-line tubing. In this case your blue ice-packs and water (but it could take a lot of blue ice-packs) could be as effective (but maybe not) as ice or ice and water. Since these are ideas, I don't know how effective they'd be.At best you could need to use your heater to balance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Since I can't put the air pump in the basement, I've decided to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > putting it on the floor. It's bound to be several degrees cooler down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > there. -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3340 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        not sure if they bleeding hearts tetras would worik with the oscar but if they do than they would be great. .i love my 3 shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3341 From: Jeff Schultz Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        JOE P.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        THANK YOU very much for your opinion and your awesome
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ideas my fish and I have benefited from them again.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks Again,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Jeff




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- j.pascavage@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Joe,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Just thought one of those styrofoam or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > plastic, styrofoam-insulated picnic-containers,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > large would be better, with coiled vinyl tubing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (not airline tubing, but that might work, but it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > would take a lot) inside, packed with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ice/cubes/etc., as a sump, with water drawn from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your aquarium could work. Place a power-head in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > container with the tubing and ice, attach tubing to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the outlet of the power headand channel the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > into the aquarium. You'd need an overflow box just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > slightly below the aquarium water-line, with an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > outlet to bring the overflow into the picnic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > container. It's somewhat an engineering problem, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > could take a lot of adjustment, so you don't dry run
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > your sump, or cause an aquarium overflow. (That's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > basically the kind of rig I bought about 10 years
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ago for a tropical tank of 75 gallons, but my sump
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > area was a 20 gallon tank. . It's called a trickle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > filter. OR, you could do the same thing with ice
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and tubing, and circulate AIR through the ice-packed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tubing, in which case you'd have to buy a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > coiled-drum of air-line tubing. In this case your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > blue ice-packs and water (but it could take a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > blue ice-packs) could be as effective (but maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > not) as ice or ice and water. Since these are ideas,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I don't know how effective they'd be.At best you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > could need to use your heater to balance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Since I can't put the air pump in the basement,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I've decided to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > putting it on the floor. It's bound to be several
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > degrees cooler down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > there. -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3342 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo l...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In a message dated 7/8/2004 9:12:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, CK147@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hey do you sell your endlers? i have 12 but would like to add some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        different patterns. if you sell them email me ck147@... with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        prices and stuff. thanks melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I hope to some day, right now I am just getting a little colony going.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3343 From: Patrick Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Who objected to using peat to lower pH?  I thought that was one of the safe ways to soften water and reduce pH.  Am I wrong? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3344 From: Patrick Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            They would work great.  I am sure the oscars would be very happy to eat the tetras. :) 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: 07/08/04 23:39:25
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            not sure if they bleeding hearts tetras would worik with the oscar but if they do than they would be great. .i love my 3 shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3345 From: questnjurny Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am sure he would...however that wasn't the tank I was asking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            about...:) The oscar has his fins full chasing the severum around.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The tank I was wondering about is a 33gal with two angels, two kribs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and an unknown small cichlid. I would also like to add two firemouths
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and possibly a school of tetras...but am not sure how that would all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            work with the other cichlids in the tank. I haven't had angelfish in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            years and I know they can be picky as to their tank mates.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > They would work great. I am sure the oscars would be very happy to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            eat the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > tetras. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3346 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo loach?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            A pair is ok but 3+ is better; I'd definitely add more if you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            space. They're great bottom feeders but the main reason for the larger group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is you'll see much more activity from them. Loaches have terrific
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            personalities and while they're technically not schoolers they like company
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of their own kind.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: <Deenerz@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Does the same hold true for YoYo loaches?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > When I went to the LFS they only had two in stock. I got them and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            seem to be doing well in my 55 gal tank. It is my soon to be planted tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            they have been rooting around a little bit in the gravel, and as near as I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            can tell they have been leaving my Endler's fry alone, but should I get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            them a few more friends to make a 5 pack? Or are they ok as a pair?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3347 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: was YoYos, now Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            How has your experience with breeding Endler's been, when did you start, what size tank, etc?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I started a dedicated 10g for them early in March. The tank has a black background, black gravel over flourite, driftwood, and is planted.I first had males only from a lfs as well as a few from PetSmart. Then I placed an order with a breeder online, I received 3M, 2F and at least 7 fry. I really enjoy seeing the males mature as they start to get their colors. It's a busy tank now, I have no idea how many are in there. I have noticed I'm getting more F fry than M so I'm doing some reasearch on the effects of pH and temps on sex of fry.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I hope to some day, right now I am just getting a little colony going.   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3348 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi Joe G., I never objected to using peat, in fact I urged you to use it (if really needed), although I did recommend you try fish that will live okay in your present water conditions. However, if your pH is really that high, then I don't see why you can't use the peat to lower the pH down to 7.6 - 7.8.; slowly.  Others may have objected as it first appeared that you may have wanted to go down to pH 6.6 or something and possibly shock the fish. Next time you buy fish from your surrounding area fish stores, take a pH reading of that water. It will give you an idea of where you should have your pH without shocking new arrivals, and I doubt if all those store's pH's are neutral. It would seem that some of them would have similar water. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3349 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/8/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Joe G., For colder air, pick up a styrofoam fish box from one of your fish stores, punch some holes in it, put your air pump in it, pack it with ice and close the lid. Just be careful that the pump is positioned so that it can't pick up melted ice water. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3350 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: PLease Help Sick angelfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi all I have a pair of marble anglefish, I have had them for about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            6months Last night when feeding I noticed that one of them had, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            guess you could say "lesions" (so hard to explain) It has 3 small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            holes, and I do mean holes you can see right thur them they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            right above the ventral fin. And when I said lesions it seem to have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a raised spot on one side of his body. A bit white but more just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            raised. Its acting fine and eating fine. His fins have a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of "tatterness" but not clamped. I would be very sad to lose my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            angel but even more if is it going to spend thur tank. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            know what this could be? ( I know it's hard to tell without seeing)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Is there anything I could treat the fish and the tank so "whatever"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it is, it won't spread. Or secondary infection from these lesions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            and holes. If its sores on the fish wouldn't this be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bacterial infection? trying to work this out in my head. Thanks for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            anyones help

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3351 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo l...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/8/2004 11:07:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dtmergl@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            A pair is ok but 3+ is better; I'd definitely add more if you have the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            space. They're great bottom feeders but the main reason for the larger group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is you'll see much more activity from them. Loaches have terrific
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            personalities and while they're technically not schoolers they like company
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            of their own kind.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi Theresa,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ya, I think I have the room, it is a 55 gallon so I guess this weekend I will get a 1 - 3 more if they have them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks  : )
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3352 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: was YoYos, now Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/8/2004 11:15:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dtmergl@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            How has your experience with breeding Endler's been, when did you start, what size tank, etc?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I started a dedicated 10g for them early in March. The tank has a black background, black gravel over flourite, driftwood, and is planted.I first had males only from a lfs as well as a few from PetSmart. Then I placed an order with a breeder online, I received 3M, 2F and at least 7 fry. I really enjoy seeing the males mature as they start to get their colors. It's a busy tank now, I have no idea how many are in there. I have noticed I'm getting more F fry than M so I'm doing some reasearch on the effects of pH and temps on sex of fry.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My experience is pretty limited and recent.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I bid on and won two bags at a local auction a few weeks ago.  One bag of males and one mixed males and females.  They lived in a bucket in my spare room with an air stone and water changes for a week and a half, then I set up my 55 gallon and added them to it.  The females immediately dropped at least a dozen babies.  They may have arrived pregnant for all I know.  Two of the females appear heavy again so I am hoping for more babies.  I am new to planted tanks and am starting slow.  A lot of water sprite, and some of the bulbs from Walmart, two anubias from an auction, and some hygrophila (sp) and one driftwood stump.  I am feeding pulverized flake that I grind up between my fingers and they are eating it.  I have fed the tank a couple frozen brine cubes but did not have time to observe if they were able to eat any of it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Please share with us how your experiments go with pH and fry gender.  I need more females and it would be nice to make that happen with a pH adjustment.  And yes they are busy little fish, even in a big empty 55 gal.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3353 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo loach?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike, yoyo should be fine. Though they are much less aggressive then the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            clowns and remain smaller but it still is down to individuals who prefer to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            come out during the day and those who do not. A pair of yoyo should be fine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            but the more you have, more secure they will feel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Some loaches like the Horas loach are terrible in aggression. My experience
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            with them has been that they are certainly not community fish.. but yoyos
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are very peaceful characters :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >From: Deenerz@... [mailto:Deenerz@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Sent: 09 July 2004 02:56
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] was clown loach question, now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >YoYo loach?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >In a message dated 7/8/2004 3:11:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Mathur" <nimmat4@...> writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>Or, I would suggest to get another clown loach. Lonely clowns do tend to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>after some fish for their slime coat etc. I also had a similar problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>2 5" RTS and 2 4" clowns. As soon as I got the 3rd companion, everything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>seemed fine and the clowns are busy clowning among themselves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Does the same hold true for YoYo loaches?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >When I went to the LFS they only had two in stock. I got them and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >seem to be doing well in my 55 gal tank. It is my soon to be planted tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >they have been rooting around a little bit in the gravel, and as near as I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >can tell they have been leaving my Endler's fry alone, but should I get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >them a few more friends to make a 5 pack? Or are they ok as a pair?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3354 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Indeed. lol

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Patrick [mailto:americanfishguy@hotmail.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 09 July 2004 06:28
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mid level fish...what might work?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They would work great.  I am sure the oscars would be very happy to eat the tetras. :) 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nitrogen Cycle:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: 07/08/04 23:39:25

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mid level fish...what might work?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              not sure if they bleeding hearts tetras would worik with the oscar but if they do than they would be great. .i love my 3 shannon

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3355 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Probably it was me. It is the safest method but if you get the quantities wrong, it could do much more then it is supposed to.. needs some trial and error but certainly safer then adding chemicals. Also, it taints the water colour and I presume also adds a bit of nitrates.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Or maybe it was someone else coz I am not that adamant on not using peat as I have been using it myself J

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Patrick [mailto:americanfishguy@hotmail.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 09 July 2004 06:27
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: pH questions - peat filter

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Who objected to using peat to lower pH?  I thought that was one of the safe ways to soften water and reduce pH.  Am I wrong? 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nitrogen Cycle:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3356 From: paul helms Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                well patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                if you would like to come to california and see a 240
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gallon fresh water aquarium with no plants and an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                undergravel filter that has been left alone for ten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                years...i would love to show it to you. it currently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                houses a 13 year old buttekoferi, a large dempsey, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                large managuneses (sp), two pairs of 5 inch breeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                convicts, a 2 foot long pleco, and a good sized
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                florida soft shell turtle. the only other filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                is two aquaclear 500 backfilters, which are being used
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                as bio filters only. the pads have not been changed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                in years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                as for your other comments, i trim my roots every 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                months to keep my plants bushier. trimming them to 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                inches or so will make them spread out a bit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                large pieces of bowl rock can be arranged so that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                there is little blockage of the ug filter. stacking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and bridging works wonders.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i run undergravel filters in everything form 2 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to 400 gallon, and as i have said before, i have set
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                up more than 50 tanks (both fresh and marine,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                community and agressive)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                paul




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "i have seen tanks over 10 years old where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > undergravel has never been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > cleaned out, and they are the healthiest you will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ever find."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I don't doubt the existence of such a tank, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > if it was healthy, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > must have been heavily planted.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "i have no back filtration on it, just an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > undergravel filter and 25 or so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > live plants. i run a nice strong airpump on it, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > my plants do extremely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > well, as do the fish."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > The filter is probably doing very little work in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the tank if those are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > rooted plants. I have had plants in my 1 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > that filled the plate with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > roots enough that there was little chance of water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > flow through the gravel.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > The plants are doing all of the bio and chemical
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > filtration.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "the ug filter will be fine if you make sure to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > in a lot of large rock
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > pieces fot the fish to hide in."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Big problem with large rocks on a ugf: they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > block large sections of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gravel and prevent flow. That would basically mean
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > you have a fancy air
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > stone. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "the ug filter will not effect your ph, but the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > cichlids will uncover it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > conststantly."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I agree 100% with that. There are many bad
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > things about ugf's that I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > agree with, but that is not one of them. And I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > no opponent of them. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > really do like ugf's for tanks 10 gallons and under,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I just wanted to share
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > my experiences with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and 1 paradise gourami. I do not recommend this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3357 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: was clown loach question, now YoYo l...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ok just thought i'd ask, since no one in kansas seems to sell them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                =:o)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I hope to some day, right now I am just getting a little colony
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                going.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3358 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: new tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Do you realize that the intake tube on the tetratec 300 is one tube
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                inside another and it extends down when you pull it down? Just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thought you might have missed that. It wouldnt reach the bottom of a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                24 inch tank but should go down about 3/4 of the way which is where
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                you would want it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "emijer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                <emijer@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hi, I just got a new tank (someone was throwing it out). I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                believe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > it is 45-50 gallons if some one could help it would be great. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 36 inches long, 12 inches wide and 24 inches high. I bought a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tetra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tec 300 filter with the heater option today and when got it home it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > does not go any where near the bottom of the tank. can I purchase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > longer spout for the tank? or is there a better one that I should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > get? I have not set up this tank with fish yet.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Now I have another tank with 5 cichilds and 1 lobster. We are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                going
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > away for a good 2 weeks and have no family nearby so I bought a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > battery operated fish feeder ($15.00) and have been trying it out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and so far I am not happy with it. Does anyone have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > suggestions? do the food blocks work or should I invest in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > $50.00-$60.00 digital one?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thank you all in advance,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Heidi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3359 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Also running the air thru a brand new transmission cooler, not used, aftermarket type you can get dirt cheap at the local auto parts store. If the ambient air temp in the basement is that much cooler you should achieve a decent tempeture drop.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: joegum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 4:13 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Since I can't put the air pump in the basement, I've decided to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                putting it on the floor.  It's bound to be several degrees cooler down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                there.   -joe g.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3360 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: was YoYo, now Endler's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I hope to have some ready for sale by fall.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Theresa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ok just thought i'd ask, since no one in kansas seems to sell them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3361 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Soft Plastic will have little if any heat transfer ability.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Simple and fast, buy an Avanti fridge which is about $60, them cheap little ones you see in the motels) pop two holes thru the side away from the refrigerant lines (look at the back, you can see where the supply / return lines are plumbed) , place either a new heater core from a car or aftermarket tranny cooler inside the fridge , run you water by powerhead into the fridge and thru the heater core or cooler, this will drop the liquids temps by 30 degrees easily. and you can put it right next to the tank, plus there's room for your beer. Just use spray on foam to seal around the holes you ran the tubes thru, also use think walled plastic tubing to and from the tank, also use a simple filter medium around the inlet line to keep the fish from making a trip into the powerhead which is best kept in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Energy consumption of these tiny fridges are not enough to mention. no messy ice blocks, no running to the basement to check the system, just sit back and let it cool your tank... Heck if you put big enough coolers in the fridge you could drop the tanks temp low enough to keep Trout, now they are pretty.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                hey I don't mean to pee on the parade but the leader of the NSA sums it up as this "Complex problems require simple solutions, very complex problems require very simple answers!!" kid you not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But when all the crowds go home, and your left to build this thing simplicity wins over complexity.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So maybe you need to ask yourself one tiny question, is this tank really going to get that hot?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 5:05 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Joe,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Just thought one of those styrofoam or plastic, styrofoam-insulated picnic-containers, large would be better,  with coiled vinyl tubing (not airline tubing, but that might work, but it would take a lot) inside, packed with ice/cubes/etc., as a sump, with water drawn from your aquarium could work. Place a power-head in the container with the tubing and ice, attach tubing to the outlet of the power headand channel the water into the aquarium. You'd need an overflow box just slightly below the aquarium water-line, with an outlet to bring the overflow into the picnic container. It's somewhat an engineering problem, and could take a lot of adjustment, so you don't dry run your sump, or cause an aquarium overflow. (That's basically the kind of rig I bought about 10 years ago for a tropical tank of 75 gallons, but my sump area was a 20 gallon tank. . It's called a trickle filter.   OR, y! ou could do the same thing with ice and tubing, and circulate AIR through the ice-packed tubing, in which case you'd have to buy a coiled-drum of air-line tubing. In this case your blue ice-packs and water (but it could take a lot of blue ice-packs) could be as effective (but maybe not) as ice or ice and water. Since these are ideas, I don't know how effective they'd be.At best you could need to use your heater to balance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Since I can't put the air pump in the basement, I've decided to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > putting it on the floor. It's bound to be several degrees cooler down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > there. -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3362 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you close it up tight how is the fresh air going to reach the air pump???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 7:42 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe G., For colder air, pick up a styrofoam fish box from one of your fish stores, punch some holes in it, put your air pump in it, pack it with ice and close the lid. Just be careful that the pump is positioned so that it can't pick up melted ice water. Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3363 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Good "1" Patrick, same thing I was thinking <]:~)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:28 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mid level fish...what might work?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They would work great.  I am sure the oscars would be very happy to eat the tetras. :) 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 07/08/04 23:39:25
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  not sure if they bleeding hearts tetras would worik with the oscar but if they do than they would be great. .i love my 3 shannon


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3364 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Wow, did I read this right, over "8" on the Ph??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Man your shower must need to be bathed in acid weekly, it must look like stalgmite city in there...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Never heard of municipal water being so high,,, Where in tarnasion is this place, I want to steer clear..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 7:38 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH questions

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi Joe G., I never objected to using peat, in fact I urged you to use it (if really needed), although I did recommend you try fish that will live okay in your present water conditions. However, if your pH is really that high, then I don't see why you can't use the peat to lower the pH down to 7.6 - 7.8.; slowly.  Others may have objected as it first appeared that you may have wanted to go down to pH 6.6 or something and possibly shock the fish. Next time you buy fish from your surrounding area fish stores, take a pH reading of that water. It will give you an idea of where you should have your pH without shocking new arrivals, and I doubt if all those store's pH's are neutral. It would seem that some of them would have similar water. Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3365 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: ?'S ON CATFISH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They are more than likely Yellow Bullhead Catfish. There is no size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  limit or number limit in Kansas on any of the bullhead species. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  can legaly keep these in an aquarium there. You do need a license to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  take them though unless you are under 16 or over 64 years old or took
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  them on free fishing weekend which was june 5-6. They will outgrow a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  10 gallon tank though and as they get bigger will eat any other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they can fit into their mouths (including each other if some are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bigger). If they are yellow bullheads they can grow to a max size of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  about 15 inches though unlikely in an aquarium. They will eat about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  anything edible and should be given a varied diet like any other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish. I looked this (legal)stuff up at the kansas dnr fishing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  regulation site. They will grow pretty fast, I currently have 2 of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  them. It is possible that you have a more desireable species such as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  a stonecat or one of the madtom species, which have a small max size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and are better suited for aquariums but more than likely you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  yellow bullheads. Look up these species on the internet to better ID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  these fish. Dont let the name "Yellow" confuse you, they sometimes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have a yellow belly but usually when small are white bellied.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Dattilo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "iloveguppies"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > They where caught under a bridge in a tiny town, where you allowed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to drink and drive, not have your kids in seatbelts and all that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > stuff, also people in that town said they collected them as kids. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > just caught them with a net and they are in a 10 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > out a filter in it. they are so little you couldn't catch them with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > a fishing pole, and no i don't have a fishing license. I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  gonna
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > kill them i'll just keep them they seem to be fine so far.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I would take them back to where you found them, as long as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > they haven't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > been in contact with any of your used tank equipment. If they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > have been in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > contact with filters, water, nets, etc. that have been used for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > non-native fish, you need to kill them and bury them to prevent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > introduction
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > of disease into American waters. It may be illegal to take them,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > depending
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > on your state laws and the species. If it is legal, and you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > a pond,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > put them in the pond. By pond, I mean a dirt pond, not plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > lined. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > also hope you have a fishing license or were legally fishing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Native
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > species are closely protected and even innocently taking them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > could be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > crime in your state. Since they are catfish, it is probably
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  legal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > as long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > as you have a fishing license and keep it at all times because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > there might
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > not be a size or number limit on them. At this point it is most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > important
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > to keep disease away from a local water source. You might also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > try a native
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > species forum or group to get more information. I might be wrong
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > about all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > of this legal stuff.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  guppy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 2 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > just incase some people who may have been out for the 3 day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > weekend
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > i'm reposting this question.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > i have 10 fresh water catfish. they are under a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > inch big, with white bottom wiskers and a rounded tail. they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > came from a creek in kansas, we thought they where tadpoles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > till we put in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > clearer water. they seem to love fish food. but should i be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > them other types of food like earthworms or something. we can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > live bloodworms where i live. they and are so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > cute. i have posted a picture under melanie's pics. any info
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > anyone can share about care feeding water temps anything
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > would be appreciated thanks. Melanie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3366 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mark, Please re-read my post -- I said to punch some holes in the styrofoam box (so fresh air can get into the box and at the pump) , then close the lid (to keep it cool inside, with the ice).  This should drop the pumped air a lot more than just putting the pump on the floor where the air is a couple of degrees cooler as Joe G. was going to do. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3367 From: questnjurny Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Actually if you read my post, you will find that the tetras would not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  be going in with the oscar....he is in a 90gal with a severum and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  pleco. They would be going in a 33gal with 2 kribs, 2 angels and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  small unknown cichlid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Good "1" Patrick, same thing I was thinking <]:~)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3368 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Naw, that's the preferred way, best results, natural tannins.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just don't like to give someone directions down the street to disaster like stomping Ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to suit their needs when we know it will rebound and stress the fish... I still can't see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a municipality having such high Ph, doesn't makes sense. I wonder if their test solution
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    is off??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    We lived in Florida, all the water is filtered down thru the limestone (pure calcium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    carbonate) from the top of the state to the bottom, that's allot of hardness and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tannic acid breaks down the limestone adding more alkaloids yet our tap was the same as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the san fernando valley where we live now and the water comes from granite, yet both are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    7.2,,,7.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So to be over 8 is practically impossible unless someone is purposfully adding pure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    carbonates to the municipality and they would be counter-productive as the pipes would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    clog up very fast with deposits narrowing the supply.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Please retest, if you still find these levels contact your water board as they would want
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mbethke@socal.rr.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:27 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: pH questions - peat filter

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Who objected to using peat to lower pH?  I thought that was one of the safe ways to soften water and reduce pH.  Am I wrong? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3369 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I didn't really see your post, I was responding to a post by Shannon.  I will run over to the group website to see your post since the email version has been deleted. :(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Actually if you read my post, you will find that the tetras would not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      be going in with the oscar....he is in a 90gal with a severum and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pleco.  They would be going in a 33gal with 2 kribs, 2 angels and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      small unknown cichlid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3370 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            With the fish you listed, I don't know if you could fit more fish into the 33 gallon.  Bleeding harts might nip at the angels.  I suggest leaving the tank like it is for now until you id the unknown cichlid.  And the angels might eat tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3371 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mark, Please let me know what you keep. I'd be interested in knowing what kinds of fish you enjoy keeping. Are you breeding anything at the moment? Regards, Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3372 From: rojeriko Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm thinking about upgrading my 3gal test setup to 40-50gal. Since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the price differs considerably between brands, I was searching for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        reviews. So far I found only 3 reviews. Oceanic has the highest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        rating, All-Glass(owned by Oceanic?) is close to Oceanic and Perfecto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        (sold as Top-Fin by PetsMart) has somewhat below average rating. I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        like to get your opinion on other brands such as Hagen etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Rojer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3373 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I know of many people with pH of 8 from the sink.  Most of them don't change it at all, some of them use peat.  I am just happy that mine is around 6.6 in my tanks, and stable.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3374 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pH questions - peat filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Most of the southern England has water with a PH > 8. Reason is too many carbonates and very hard water. My tap water measures Ph 8.2-8.4, GH 22 degrees, KH 30 degrees.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Peat does not soften the water in terms of GH. It only reduces the KH and since most of the calcium is still there, carbonic acid in the water tends to reform the calcium carbonate eventually increasing the KH. If water is very hard, reducing the PH by any means is a hopeless fight. But I still do it

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@socal.rr.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: 09 July 2004 18:01
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: pH questions - peat filter

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Naw, that's the preferred way, best results, natural tannins.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I just don't like to give someone directions down the street to disaster like stomping Ph

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to suit their needs when we know it will rebound and stress the fish... I still can't see

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a municipality having such high Ph, doesn't makes sense. I wonder if their test solution

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            is off??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            We lived in Florida , all the water is filtered down thru the limestone (pure calcium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            carbonate) from the top of the state to the bottom, that's allot of hardness and the

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tannic acid breaks down the limestone adding more alkaloids yet our tap was the same as

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the san fernando valley where we live now and the water comes from granite, yet both are

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            7.2,,,7.4.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So to be over 8 is practically impossible unless someone is purposfully adding pure

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            carbonates to the municipality and they would be counter-productive as the pipes would

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            clog up very fast with deposits narrowing the supply.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Please retest, if you still find these levels contact your water board as they would want

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to know

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Northridge , CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mbethke@socal.rr.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Patrick

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:27 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: pH questions - peat filter

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Who objected to using peat to lower pH?  I thought that was one of the safe ways to soften water and reduce pH.  Am I wrong? 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nitrogen Cycle:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3375 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I highly reccomend the tanks at your lwm (local w-mart).  Get the 55 gallon, filter, heater, lights, everything.  I have had good luck with the brands that come in the kit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm thinking about upgrading my 3gal test setup to 40-50gal. Since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the price differs considerably between brands, I was searching for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              reviews. So far I found only 3 reviews. Oceanic has the highest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              rating, All-Glass(owned by Oceanic?) is close to Oceanic and Perfecto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (sold as Top-Fin by PetsMart) has somewhat below average rating. I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              like to get your opinion on other brands such as Hagen etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Rojer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3376 From: wil Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: cichlids, ph, and cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks to everyone for answering my water testing ph question. i got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my tank converted to cichlids, and they seem happy:) i partially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              changed the water a couple times after i moved the goldfish to a new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank in order to get the ph up around 8. it seems like the ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              treatment im using is making the water cloudy. i forget what the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              brand is but its a white powder that says add a scoop per 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              gallons. i dont want to disturb the new cichlids so ive been kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              waiting it out and dealing with the cloudy water. are some ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              treatments known to cloud up the water? any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3377 From: questnjurny Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Mid level fish...what might work?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks, I know angels can be tough to put other fish with becuase of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              their temperment as well as their beautiful fins...will leave it alone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              for now. I have searched adn searched and cannot find that unknown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              guy anywhere, so will have to get the digital camera up and going and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              take it to my lfs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > With the fish you listed, I don't know if you could fit more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the 33 gallon. Bleeding harts might nip at the angels. I suggest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              leaving
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the tank like it is for now until you id the unknown cichlid. And the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > angels might eat tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3378 From: joegum Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              An observation......


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've added my waterfall-type power filter with sponge and peat. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              three white clouds are swimming into the current. This behavior has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              been going on for several hours now. Even when they aren't swimming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              directly into the current, they keep to this zone of the tank. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              another much larger waterfall-type filter. They never did this with that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              filter. Maybe this means nothing...maybe this means something. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              plecostomus and the betta seem oblivious to the peat filter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3379 From: joegum Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              These are really wonderful suggestions!!!! I'm going to take things a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              step at a time. Ive done all I can to i increase evaporation, promote
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              airflow around the tank to increase evaporation and promote heat loss,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              raised the lighting to allow for air circulation and now the air pump
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              supplying the airsatones is on the floor. Today, the temps are in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              high 70's and low 80's. My tank temp is now 74 degrees. Thabnk you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              everyone!! If I still have problems, I'll know the next steps to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              . -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3380 From: Damojn Bradbury Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Personally, I would go with the All-Glass on that size.  The Oceanic is the best, but not necessary for that size tank.  All-Glass is a good quality tank, and relatively cheap.  A 55 gallon tahnk can be found on sale at most places for $99.99, or just a little bit more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Damon Bradbury

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              rojeriko <rojeriko@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm thinking about upgrading my 3gal test setup to 40-50gal. Since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the price differs considerably between brands, I was searching for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              reviews. So far I found only 3 reviews. Oceanic has the highest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              rating, All-Glass(owned by Oceanic?) is close to Oceanic and Perfecto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (sold as Top-Fin by PetsMart) has somewhat below average rating. I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              like to get your opinion on other brands such as Hagen etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Rojer




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3381 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Air pump on floor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi, all. I tested the pH in my pond, and it was maxed out above the level of my test strips (which only go up to 8.4). I moved my school of 5 Golden White Cloud Mtn Minnows from the pond, which was choked with algae, into my 2.5 gallon hospice tank (temporarily, I know it is much too small) which also has a high pH. I want to gradually acclimitize them to my 10 gallon tank, which is stable and has a pH of 7.4, so that they can move in. What are your opinions on doing this by doing partial water changes?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My thought is, since both tanks are due for the weekly change tomorrow, I should siphon off 30% of the water from the 2.5 gallon, and instead of replacing it with my filtered but untreated well water, use the water I am going to siphon off from my 10 gallon. (The only reason I pull it out of the ten gallon tank is to keep the nitrates down at 40 ppm or below, all the other levels are fine.) Would the resulting pH be too much of a change?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              By the way, my 15% weekly water changes with my high pH well water do NOT seem to raise the pH levels in my 10 gallon tank. The driftwood seems to be keeping it stable at those levels.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Also, does anyone here have experience keeping these minnows in a tropical tank with 80 degree temps? They are said to not be able to tolerate warm temps in the info I found, but my pond was a LOT hotter than my tanks ever get, and they were doing well.(When I was netting them out of the pond, although I didn't have a thermometer, it felt like I was putting my hand in a lukewarm bath! Had to be at least 90...)Their color had improved greatly from when they first came, and they were well fed and fast as all get out...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ________________________________________________________________________

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe, if you do decide to put your air pump below the level of the tank, you may want to make sure that you have a check valve on the airline between the tank and the pump just in case of an outage, or the air line might siphon water out of the tank. (Check valves are cheap.) Audrey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Message: 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:13:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: joegum <joegum@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Temperature issues

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Since I can't put the air pump in the basement, I've decided to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              putting it on the floor. It's bound to be several degrees cooler down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              there. -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3382 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              today i bought 2 cory cats, i know 3 is better but i don't want
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to over load my tank to quick. i know it's better to buy them in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pairs of there same patterns, but they only had one spotted one and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i loved him so i got him and a plain goldish boring colored one,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they are so lively they swim all over the place and the spotted one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              follows the other one who is bigger i wanted one about the same size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but the guy had such a hard time catching any of them i told him i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              take what ever he could catch. he was a manager just trying to help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              since the fish lady went home already. is it true you shouldn't feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              them for a day after you get new fish? i have uploaded a pic to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              melanie's pics if anyone would like to see me pretty and very active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              new fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3383 From: Patrick Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In my experience, they only like those of the same species/color pattern.  That is why I have 5 when I only wanted 3.  Sadly I got the 2 new ones to match the odd one of the first 3 only to find that they were slightly different.  The odd one still swims with the two that are almost the same (he is a spotted, the 2 that I got with him are albino a., and the 2 I got for him are juli!).  I need another albino.   If you have room, get one or two more of each of the ones you have.  And it should be fine to build them up over several weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3384 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                yeah that's what i had heard about the same species. i will get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                few more of the gold but don't know where to find the spotted one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                since they said they only order the gold and albino's and he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                happened to come in with there shipment, i'll keep checking to see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                if some more accidently come in. i'm also gonna check with the pet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                store once she is up and running. for now they swim together it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cute. but they are also a little nutty and quite big for my 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gallon i will move them to the 20 gallon after it's cycled. =:o)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > In my experience, they only like those of the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                species/color pattern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > That is why I have 5 when I only wanted 3. Sadly I got the 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                new ones to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > match the odd one of the first 3 only to find that they were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                slightly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > different. The odd one still swims with the two that are almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > (he is a spotted, the 2 that I got with him are albino a., and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2 I got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > for him are juli!). I need another albino. If you have room,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                get one or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > two more of each of the ones you have. And it should be fine to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                build them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > up over several weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                betta, and 1 paradise gourami. I do not recommend this setup for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3385 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: albino cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i actually love the albino cory cats but they only had 2 one was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                dead and the other was trying to eat a dead sword tail molly in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tank. so i skipped them. =:o)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > In my experience, they only like those of the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                species/color pattern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > That is why I have 5 when I only wanted 3. Sadly I got the 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                new ones to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > match the odd one of the first 3 only to find that they were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                slightly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > different. The odd one still swims with the two that are almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > (he is a spotted, the 2 that I got with him are albino a., and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2 I got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > for him are juli!). I need another albino. If you have room,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                get one or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > two more of each of the ones you have. And it should be fine to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                build them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > up over several weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                betta, and 1 paradise gourami. I do not recommend this setup for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3386 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cichlids, ph, and cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kent Freshwater Pro-Clear, Problem solved
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:49 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cichlids, ph, and cloudy water

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks to everyone for answering my water testing ph question.  i got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                my tank converted to cichlids, and they seem happy:)  i partially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                changed the water a couple times after i moved the goldfish to a new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tank in order to get the ph up around 8.  it seems like the ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                treatment im using is making the water cloudy.  i forget what the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                brand is but its a white powder that says add a scoop per 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gallons.  i dont want to disturb the new cichlids so ive been kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                waiting it out and dealing with the cloudy water.  are some ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                treatments known to cloud up the water? any suggestions?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3387 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yea, good advice, just don't fall into the trap,,,,, Now you need ,,, The hood & top, the stand, the rest of the kit they try and sell. Hoods are best made, the ones you buy don't supply enough light (Lumens?) plus the ballasts they supply are cheap and burnout, then you have to buy a whole new hood or retro-fit the old one, take my advice and buy a 55gl tank that is 48 inches long , they have great bulbs @ 40 watt in that size and they come in a variety of types, I use 6.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                All are in sets of two, one set that's first on in the morning and are a special white bright full spectrum at midday a set of pink full spectrum then they pinks go off at 5 pm, and the whites off at 9pm, the other set is blue atinic's they use for reef aquariums, they give deep penetrating light and stay on almost all the time. they really don't help the plants or fish as much as they make all the colors stand out better.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So I have 6 bulbs in all running on 3 ballasts, a thin plate of plexiglas fit between the bulbs and the water that is bonded to a insulating 2 inch think piece of foam that has foil on one side to reflect light back down into the aquarium...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hope some of this helps. Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 8:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] new member - aquarium review?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Personally, I would go with the All-Glass on that size.  The Oceanic is the best, but not necessary for that size tank.  All-Glass is a good quality tank, and relatively cheap.  A 55 gallon tahnk can be found on sale at most places for $99.99, or just a little bit more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Damon Bradbury

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                rojeriko <rojeriko@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm thinking about upgrading my 3gal test setup to 40-50gal. Since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the price differs considerably between brands, I was searching for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                reviews. So far I found only 3 reviews. Oceanic has the highest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                rating, All-Glass(owned by Oceanic?) is close to Oceanic and Perfecto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (sold as Top-Fin by PetsMart) has somewhat below average rating. I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                like to get your opinion on other brands such as Hagen etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Rojer




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3388 From: questnjurny Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Here is my unidentified little fish that I got this week. Anyone have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                any ideas?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/jurnynquest/unknownfish.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3389 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hey. maybe they have been watching all those shows saying that we are all fat and don't exercise..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                No really, I had a friend give me a " Tim the tool time Taylor" "More Power" type nuclear pump (probably about 1,000 GPH, had a 1 inch outlet pipe). The giant danio's loved it, it was adjustable so I just cranked it up and they swam faster , like tuna...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Anyways, it was so loud I couldn't hear the Dennis Miller Rant and had to shut it down...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                BTW, I wish I could show images (as if not showing them here will stop the freaks who write viruses) as I have one of the fish all at the end of the tank nearest the TV , why are they there, I know they have no idea what they are looking at but they still congregate at that end, if I turn the set off they sort of meander away. Turn it back on they all end up in the corner again... It must be the light and color...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: joegum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 7:48 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH questions

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                An observation......


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've added my waterfall-type power filter with sponge and peat.  My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                three white clouds are swimming into the current.   This behavior has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                been going on for several hours now. Even when they aren't swimming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                directly into the current, they keep to this zone of the tank. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                another much larger waterfall-type filter. They never did this with that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                filter.   Maybe this means nothing...maybe this means something.   The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                plecostomus and the betta seem oblivious to the peat filter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       -joe g.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3390 From: joegum Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Air pump on floor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks Audrey. The check valves are in place. -Joe G.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ****************************************************************************************************************************
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe, if you do decide to put your air pump below the level of the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                you may want to make sure that you have a check valve on the airline
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                between the tank and the pump just in case of an outage, or the air line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                might siphon water out of the tank. (Check valves are cheap.) Audrey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3391 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                looks like a juvenile german ram to me. or something similar...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                On Jul 9, 2004, at 9:16 PM, questnjurny wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Here is my unidentified little fish that I got this week.  Anyone have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/jurnynquest/unknownfish.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3392 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Don't have any idea on type of fish, but wanted to say he is very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                pretty.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Here is my unidentified little fish that I got this week. Anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/jurnynquest/unknownfish.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3393 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i have a 29 top fin by petsmart... however i am new to this and just do it for fun.. but i have had a excellent experience with the entire system bought.. i did foudn out when i broke my thermoter that the original one was a really nice one.. and to get back to that quality i had to spend 40 bucks... so i was glad to know that a cheapo was just put in that kit... i have been looking at several new systems as well and i just figure ill by from top fin... who knows.. i wont buyfor a while and i might have a new outlook by then... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3394 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: attn patrick] new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                were you talking about wall mart when you refered to w mart.. i have never seen t hem but that doesn suprise me as i have been in wallmart like once lol we just dont have many in oregon... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I highly reccomend the tanks at your lwm (local w-mart).  Get the 55 gallon, filter, heater, lights, everything.  I have had good luck with the brands that come in the kit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3395 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                lol....walley world, aka walmart, is like a fungus, at least in the eastern half of the USA.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I got a 29 gallon from there that leaked. However, I got a 55 gallon from there too. Had no problems with that tank whatsoever. My only reason for not looking for another tank from them is their's are all black trim now. Personally perfer oak (but that is just me).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 12:00 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] attn patrick] new member - aquarium review?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                were you talking about wall mart when you refered to w mart.. i have never seen t hem but that doesn suprise me as i have been in wallmart like once lol we just dont have many in oregon... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I highly reccomend the tanks at your lwm (local w-mart).  Get the 55 gallon, filter, heater, lights, everything.  I have had good luck with the brands that come in the kit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3396 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                my corys are my fav i started out with one.. my lfs said one was fine and she thrived.. she was a albino i stil have here then i got a spotted one and a stripped one.. now i have a panda one.. i have only lost one.. and i have 3 now.. i think they look like active sperm. no joke they just shuffle everywhere.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3397 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: finding a spotted: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i have a spotted one i got him at petsmart and i saw them at pet co.. so there are a few options for you... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3398 From: Jason Date: 7/9/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: What kind of fish do I have?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I recently added a pair of what Petsmart called some kind of "Shark"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to my tank. It isn't a rainbow or redtailed or anything like that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                These fish look like my Scissortail Rasbora, but their tail fins are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                red, and they have a dark horizontal stripe right through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                middle. I don't think it's really that important that I know what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                kind of fish they are since the have integrated nicely in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                community tank, I was just curious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3399 From: Damojn Bradbury Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cichlids, ph, and cloudy water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For my aquarium maintenance business I use Jungle Clear Water.  It has worked nearly every time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Damon Bradbury

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kent Freshwater Pro-Clear, Problem solved
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: wil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:49 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cichlids, ph, and cloudy water

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks to everyone for answering my water testing ph question.  i got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                my tank converted to cichlids, and they seem happy:)  i partially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                changed the water a couple times after i moved the goldfish to a new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tank in order to get the ph up around 8.  it seems like the ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                treatment im using is making the water cloudy.  i forget what the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                brand is but its a white powder that says add a scoop per 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gallons.  i dont want to disturb the new cichlids so ive been kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                waiting it out and dealing with the cloudy water.  are some ph
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                treatments known to cloud up the water? any suggestions?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3400 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Carly,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That's a Bolivian ram. I have these myself
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10003/NewPics/bolivian%20ra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ms.JPG
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                papiliochromis altispinosa is the latin name.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Very hardy as compared to p. ramirezi and grows much larger though mine are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                still at 2.5"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >From: questnjurny [mailto:questnjurny@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Sent: 10 July 2004 02:17
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Here is my unidentified little fish that I got this week. Anyone have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/jurnynquest/unknownfish.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Carly
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3401 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Digest Number 292
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe, I found this on a Seattle Aquarium Society (?) site in a nice little article about White Clouds -

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "I think that they would be great in a ``river tank'' type setup as they like a current and would probably enjoy leaping from pool to pool."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - so maybe your white clouds are just happily cavorting in the current from your filter. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And did you read my post about mine seeming very happy in my husband's pond, which was I am guessing over 90 degrees day before yesterday when I netted them out? (Pond is choked with algae, he is going to clean it and see if he can find the pleco my daughter gave him.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About that latest dwarf Gourami female death I experienced - I found a site that listed diseases that they are susceptible to, and it sounded to me like she was egg bound. I had observed her frequently in embraces with the male, but never saw eggs in his nest or any young. And she was quite fat, so...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Audrey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: joegum <joegum@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > An observation......
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I've added my waterfall-type power filter with sponge and peat. My
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > three white clouds are swimming into the current. This behavior has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > been going on for several hours now. Even when they aren't swimming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > directly into the current, they keep to this zone of the tank. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > another much larger waterfall-type filter. They never did this with that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > filter. Maybe this means nothing...maybe this means something. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > plecostomus and the betta seem oblivious to the peat filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -joe g.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Message: 22
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:05:23 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: joegum <joegum@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > These are really wonderful suggestions!!!! I'm going to take things a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > step at a time. Ive done all I can to i increase evaporation, promote
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > airflow around the tank to increase evaporation and promote heat loss,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > raised the lighting to allow for air circulation and now the air pump
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > supplying the airsatones is on the floor. Today, the temps are in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > high 70's and low 80's. My tank temp is now 74 degrees. Thabnk you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > everyone!! If I still have problems, I'll know the next steps to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > . -joe g.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Message: 23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 12:50:57 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: Damojn Bradbury <nwaquariumservices@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Personally, I would go with the All-Glass on that size. The Oceanic is the best, but not necessary for that size tank. All-Glass is a good quality tank, and relatively cheap. A 55 gallon tahnk can be found on sale at most places for $99.99, or just a little bit more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Damon Bradbury
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > rojeriko <rojeriko@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I'm thinking about upgrading my 3gal test setup to 40-50gal. Since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the price differs considerably between brands, I was searching for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > reviews. So far I found only 3 reviews. Oceanic has the highest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > rating, All-Glass(owned by Oceanic?) is close to Oceanic and Perfecto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > (sold as Top-Fin by PetsMart) has somewhat below average rating. I'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > like to get your opinion on other brands such as Hagen etc.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Rojer
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > [This message contained attachments]
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Message: 24
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 18:41:01 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: Audrey Archer <arch1574@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Re: Air pump on floor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hi, all. I tested the pH in my pond, and it was maxed out above the level of my test strips (which only go up to 8.4). I moved my school of 5 Golden White Cloud Mtn Minnows from the pond, which was choked with algae, into my 2.5 gallon hospice tank (temporarily, I know it is much too small) which also has a high pH. I want to gradually acclimitize them to my 10 gallon tank, which is stable and has a pH of 7.4, so that they can move in. What are your opinions on doing this by doing partial water changes?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > My thought is, since both tanks are due for the weekly change tomorrow, I should siphon off 30% of the water from the 2.5 gallon, and instead of replacing it with my filtered but untreated well water, use the water I am going to siphon off from my 10 gallon. (The only reason I pull it out of the ten gallon tank is to keep the nitrates down at 40 ppm or below, all the other levels are fine.) Would the resulting pH be too much of a change?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > By the way, my 15% weekly water changes with my high pH well water do NOT seem to raise the pH levels in my 10 gallon tank. The driftwood seems to be keeping it stable at those levels.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Also, does anyone here have experience keeping these minnows in a tropical tank with 80 degree temps? They are said to not be able to tolerate warm temps in the info I found, but my pond was a LOT hotter than my tanks ever get, and they were doing well.(When I was netting them out of the pond, although I didn't have a thermometer, it felt like I was putting my hand in a lukewarm bath! Had to be at least 90...)Their color had improved greatly from when they first came, and they were well fed and fast as all get out...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Joe, if you do decide to put your air pump below the level of the tank, you may want to make sure that you have a check valve on the airline between the tank and the pump just in case of an outage, or the air line might siphon water out of the tank. (Check valves are cheap.) Audrey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Message: 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:13:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: joegum <joegum@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: Temperature issues
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Since I can't put the air pump in the basement, I've decided to try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > putting it on the floor. It's bound to be several degrees cooler down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > there. -joe g.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Message: 25
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 23:39:35 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > today i bought 2 cory cats, i know 3 is better but i don't want
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to over load my tank to quick. i know it's better to buy them in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > pairs of there same patterns, but they only had one spotted one and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > i loved him so i got him and a plain goldish boring colored one,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > they are so lively they swim all over the place and the spotted one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > follows the other one who is bigger i wanted one about the same size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > but the guy had such a hard time catching any of them i told him i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > take what ever he could catch. he was a manager just trying to help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > since the fish lady went home already. is it true you shouldn't feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > them for a day after you get new fish? i have uploaded a pic to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > melanie's pics if anyone would like to see me pretty and very active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > new fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3402 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Foamy bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That is false. If one does water changes during the cycling period, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                amount of nitrogen available is reduced and the worst that could happen is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that it takes a bit longer to establish the bacteria colony sizes needed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                serve the tank in the removal of nitrogenous wastes. If the tank is cycling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                with fish in it, it is necessary to perform water changes for the health of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The bacteria are not floaters, but grow on available surfaces in the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                column. This includes, but is not limited to, the substrate, the tank sides,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the filter media, and tank ornaments. This is why one never should vacuum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the entire substrate at one time as it will prove to be too disruptive to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the bacteria. Only vacuum a portion of the substrate each water change.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Also, when change or cleaning filter media, either reserve some of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                floss, if using a floss medium, or wash out the sponge (foam, whatever) in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tank water, the water you have already drawn off, rather than under tap
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                water. If using tap water to clean the sponge, you will likely kill the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bacteria with the chlorine or chloramines used to purify the tap water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The foaming that is being experienced, is most likely due to a high organic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                load, which can be common in a new tank, and, if the water is soft (I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                yet to see any actual water parameters published for this tank), it is more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                likely to occur than in a tank with harder water. Once that tank starts to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                come into balance, the foaming will decrease until it disappears. Doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                regular maintenance will help during this phase, though it may not make the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                effects disappear overnight.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 5:18 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Foamy bubbles?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                every time tyou change water before the tank is fully
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cycled, you are removing the bacteria that you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                trying to grow.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- muskie4817 <muskie4817@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I was only going by what I have been reading and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tests I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > done. At 3 weeks, all my tests came back good so I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > got more fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > My filter guide said to change the water after the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > first 2 weeks and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > then every month after that. I am so confused
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > because other people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > say to change your water 10% every week and others
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have said to not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > change it yet.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > you are doing too much to soon to that tank. at 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > weeks, it is too early to be stocking fish, so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > slow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > down on the cleanings and stocking to letthe tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > catch up to itself.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > --- muskie4817 <muskie4817@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > I have a 40 gallon tank with 5 platy's, 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > bloodfin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > tetras, 2 dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > neon rainbowfish and 2 cory cats. I just did a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 25%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > water change a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > week ago. I have not put any medication in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > water. My filter is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > a Marineland Emperor 400 and when I changed the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > water last week, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > changed the filter but not the media. I had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > placed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > their carbon,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > ammonia mix in the media cartridge. I will try
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > change it to see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > if that helps. My tank has only been set up for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > "Steve Szabo"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > <stevesz@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Well, if you do not have any anabantids in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > tank that may be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > building a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > bubble nest, the foam could be the result of a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > high organic load
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > tank. Failing the bubble nest test would mean
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > is time for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > water change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > If you have not been doing water changes once
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > week, and you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > probably have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > not to generate a high organic load, just do a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 10%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > change as soon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > possible, then do another in a couple of days,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > followed by a third
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > days later. Clean your filter with the first
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > one,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > and again with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > subsequent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > water changes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > If you are using activated carbon in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > tank--remove it. It may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > passed its useful life and is spewing stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > into the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > column.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Reserve its use to removing medications from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > water column when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > treating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > fish in a hospital tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Also take a look at the load in your tank. You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > not say what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > size it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > nor list the populations of the tank. You may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > to do a bit of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > weeding to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > get the load in your tank down a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Once you have established a regular weekly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > change schedule,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > 10% should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > be enough each week, though I kind of like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > 20% water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > to keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > ahead of the evil compounds that will build up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > over time in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > tank, with an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > occasional 50% or larger change.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > From: muskie4817 [mailto:muskie4817@y...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:06 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > To:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Foamy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > bubbles?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > I just got home from work and looked at my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > and noticed what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > looks like foamy bubbles on the top of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > and along side the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > glass in one part of my tank. Any ideas as to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > what is causing this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > and how to get rid of it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > providers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3403 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Chemicals in water for Algal growth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For the questions you have, you might be interested in the ALGAE-L list that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/28m6p

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: shailendra Indulkar [mailto:indulkarshailu@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 9:59 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Chemicals in water for Algal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                growth


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Dear colleagues,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hello,I am new to this group,i wonder if some one could guide me in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                basic of any algae growth in any water( sea ,brackish and Fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                water)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sodium nitrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sodium Othophosphate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sodium molybdate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ferric chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                EDTA lab grade
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Silicate gel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                D-Biotin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Cynocobalamine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thaimine Hydrochloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Copper sulphate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mannese chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cobaltus chloride
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                zinc sulphate


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Are few chemicals ( Also silica ,vitamins, trace elements etc )
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                used in lab for algae culture
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Could you please tell how the presence or absence or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                percentage /ratio of certain chemical affects the culture of algae?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And even certain " very-costly "items like D-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Biotin ,cynocobalamine :role
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                in the algae culture .


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ManyThanks,








                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3404 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: finding a spotted: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                we are going out of town for my birthday and this town actually has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a petsmart so i will check there, it's 3 hours away so we only go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                maybe once a year. so this might be good timing. hehehe

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > i have a spotted one i got him at petsmart and i saw them at pet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                co.. so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > there are a few options for you... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3405 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: finding a spotted: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                agentscullyeyore@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > i have a spotted one i got him at petsmart and i saw them at pet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                co.. so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > there are a few options for you... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3406 From: joegum Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Digest Number 292
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Audrey,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That's interesting. Maybe they were just "playing" in the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                current. Yes, I did catch your post re the 90 ° pond temps. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                remember reading...somewhere...long ago....that the larger the body of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                water fish are kept in, the more tolerant they are to abnormal temps an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                other water conditions. There was no explanation given. It was simply
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                presented as an observation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -Joe G.








                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Audrey Archer wrote: Joe, I found this on a Seattle Aquarium Society (?)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                site in a nice little article about White Clouds -

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "I think that they would be great in a ``river tank'' type setup as they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                like a current and would probably enjoy leaping from pool to pool."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - so maybe your white clouds are just happily cavorting in the current
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                from your filter. :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And did you read my post about mine seeming very happy in my husband's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                pond, which was I am guessing over 90 degrees day before yesterday when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I netted them out? (Pond is choked with algae, he is going to clean it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and see if he can find the pleco my daughter gave him.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About that latest dwarf Gourami female death I experienced - I found a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                site that listed diseases that they are susceptible to, and it sounded
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to me like she was egg bound. I had observed her frequently in embraces
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                with the male, but never saw eggs in his nest or any young. And she was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                quite fat, so...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Audrey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3407 From: Patrick Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      At least if it leaks you can take it back within 3 months with no trouble. :)  I've never had one leak.  Therefore I will got get buckets to set under mine because it is sure to start now. :( 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Date: 07/09/04 23:20:46
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] attn patrick] new member - aquarium review?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  lol....walley world, aka walmart, is like a fungus, at least in the eastern half of the USA.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I got a 29 gallon from there that leaked. However, I got a 55 gallon from there too. Had no problems with that tank whatsoever. My only reason for not looking for another tank from them is their's are all black trim now. Personally perfer oak (but that is just me).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 12:00 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] attn patrick] new member - aquarium review?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  were you talking about wall mart when you refered to w mart.. i have never seen t hem but that doesn suprise me as i have been in wallmart like once lol we just dont have many in oregon... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I highly reccomend the tanks at your lwm (local w-mart).  Get the 55 gallon, filter, heater, lights, everything.  I have had good luck with the brands that come in the kit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3408 From: questnjurny Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks so much, would you say a male or female? Should i get him/her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  a mate? Unfortunatly I couldn't see your pictures....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks again!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Carly,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > That's a Bolivian ram. I have these myself
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10003/NewPics/bolivian%20ra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ms.JPG
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > papiliochromis altispinosa is the latin name.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Very hardy as compared to p. ramirezi and grows much larger though
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mine are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > still at 2.5"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3409 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Carly,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=&pos=-28
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hopefully this should work

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Very difficult to sex bolivian rams as the females and males are equally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  coloured. They however do well even if you have 2 males or 2 females. Not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  really aggressive but since it is a cichlid, has some of it in the blood.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >From: questnjurny [mailto:questnjurny@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Sent: 10 July 2004 18:04
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Thanks so much, would you say a male or female? Should i get him/her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >a mate? Unfortunatly I couldn't see your pictures....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Thanks again!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> Carly,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> That's a Bolivian ram. I have these myself
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10003/NewPics/bolivian%20r
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> ms.JPG
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> papiliochromis altispinosa is the latin name.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> Very hardy as compared to p. ramirezi and grows much larger though
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >mine are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> still at 2.5"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >> Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3410 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: sick angelfish Melafix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I went to my LFS last night and this is what I found, "Melafix" has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  anyone used this before? I treated the tank last night. Today
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  everything seems okay. The cat fish are a bit more active but other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  then that everyone else seems to be acting the same. It did make my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  water a bit foamy but didn't dis color the water. I'll let ya know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  how it works for the angelfish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Here is the website for this product

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.aquariumpharm.com/aqfish.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sherrie


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "freedombell2002" <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Hi all I have a pair of marble angelfish, I have had them for about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 6months Last night when feeding I noticed that one of them had, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > guess you could say "lesions" (so hard to explain) It has 3 small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > holes, and I do mean holes you can see right thur them they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > right above the ventral fin. And when I said lesions it seem to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have a raised spot on one side of his body. A bit white but more just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > raised. Its acting fine and eating fine. His fins have a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > of "tatterness" but not clamped. I would be very sad to lose my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > angel but even more if is it going to spend thur tank. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > know what this could be? ( I know it's hard to tell without seeing)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Is there anything I could treat the fish and the tank so "whatever"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > it is, it won't spread. Or secondary infection from these lesions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > and holes. If its sores on the fish wouldn't this be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > bacterial infection? trying to work this out in my head. Thanks for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > anyones help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3411 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've been lurking since I joined the group and I have gained alot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  knowledge in that time. I'm having what I think is a problem, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  wanted to see what all of you thought.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I setup my very first tank a month ago. It's a 20 gallon tank with 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish in it right now. I have a powder blue gourami, a long-finned red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  minor, a lamp eye tetra, and a Mickey Mouse platy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Everything had been going very well until recently. The gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  didn't eat any food for the first week. All he did was hide. After
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the first week, he snapped out of it and swam around normally and ate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  normally. Now, however, he acts as if he's starving 24/7 and does
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  absolutely nothing other than look for uneaten food on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the tank. His only other activity is chasing the other fish whenever
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they come within his sight.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've been feeding them three times a day, yet he never stops looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for food. The other fish have become skittish and swim away from him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  if he even remotely comes near them. So, his only two activities are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  searching for food and bothering the other fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  All this doesn't seem normal to me, but as a beginner, maybe I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  wrong. I would appreciate any suggestions you could give me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3412 From: Pam Berg Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Oh I just love those little Corys too. I have 6 in my Guppy tank. I have 2 Julii, 2 Albino and just recently I bought 2 Panda. They are so much fun to watch. Just like little vacuum cleaners for the bottom of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Pam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:39 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New cory cats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     today i bought 2 cory cats, i know 3 is better but i don't want
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to over load my tank to quick. i know it's better to buy them in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  pairs of there same patterns, but they only had one spotted one and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i loved him so i got him and a plain goldish boring colored one,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they are so lively they swim all over the place and the spotted one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  follows the other one who is bigger i wanted one about the same size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  but the guy had such a hard time catching any of them i told him i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  take what ever he could catch. he was a manager just trying to help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  since the fish lady went home already. is it true you shouldn't feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  them for a day after you get new fish? i have uploaded a pic to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  melanie's pics if anyone would like to see me pretty and very active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  new fish.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3413 From: questnjurny Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks so much! Great pictures, and a beautiful aquarium! I will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have to get him a friend, he has finally come out of his cave today,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  but is not very active yet. I have two kribs in the tank with him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (were tank mates before I got them all) and they have claimed one end
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of the tank, he has claimed the other, but all seem to be ignoring
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  each other nicely.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Carly,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=&pos=-28
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > hopefully this should work
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Very difficult to sex bolivian rams as the females and males are equally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > coloured. They however do well even if you have 2 males or 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  females. Not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > really aggressive but since it is a cichlid, has some of it in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  blood.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3414 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: What kind of fish do I have?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Could possibly be blackline rasbora. There are also several other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  rasboras that have these characteristics. One thing is almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  certain, It is probably a minnow or member of Cyprinidae family as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  all rasboras are and most fish that the pet stores call "sharks"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  are. Goldfish and carp (koi) are in this family also but in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  opinion are much different than most minnows. They are usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  peaceful fish that get along good in community tanks. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  generalizing a huge family of fishes so there are of coarse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  exceptions. Post a pic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Dattilo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Jason"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <thewahlrus@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I recently added a pair of what Petsmart called some kind
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of "Shark"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to my tank. It isn't a rainbow or redtailed or anything like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > These fish look like my Scissortail Rasbora, but their tail fins
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > red, and they have a dark horizontal stripe right through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > middle. I don't think it's really that important that I know what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > kind of fish they are since the have integrated nicely in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > community tank, I was just curious.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3415 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hi Kevin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Welcome to the group!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sounds like a Gourami to me. LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I had my brother's Gourami for a while his name is "Killer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  he NOW lives in a 5 gallon tank all by his self (if that tells you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  anything) He can't play nice with the other fish, even his own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  He rams their side till he kills them. But he is a pretty fish, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  just has to live alone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sherrie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <hoosierinfl@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I've been lurking since I joined the group and I have gained alot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > knowledge in that time. I'm having what I think is a problem, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > wanted to see what all of you thought.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I setup my very first tank a month ago. It's a 20 gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > fish in it right now. I have a powder blue gourami, a long-finned
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > minor, a lamp eye tetra, and a Mickey Mouse platy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Everything had been going very well until recently. The gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > didn't eat any food for the first week. All he did was hide. After
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the first week, he snapped out of it and swam around normally and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > normally. Now, however, he acts as if he's starving 24/7 and does
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > absolutely nothing other than look for uneaten food on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the tank. His only other activity is chasing the other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  whenever
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > they come within his sight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I've been feeding them three times a day, yet he never stops looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > for food. The other fish have become skittish and swim away from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > if he even remotely comes near them. So, his only two activities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > searching for food and bothering the other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > All this doesn't seem normal to me, but as a beginner, maybe I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > wrong. I would appreciate any suggestions you could give me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3416 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 7/10/2004 2:36:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hoosierinfl@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It's a 20 gallon tank with 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish in it right now.  I have a powder blue gourami, a long-finned red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  minor, a lamp eye tetra, and a Mickey Mouse platy.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I can't answer the question about your gourami's behaviour, because I don't know anything about it ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But I do know that your platy must be terribly lonely... they are schooling fish. The rare times I've had to seclude any of my platies away from the others, they refused to eat until they rejoined the school.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I hope someone can answer your question about your Gourami's behaviour for you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3417 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  gourami do much better in pairs. they can range from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  pansies, to passive, to agressive. just depends on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the specific fish that you ended up with. i would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  recomend getting a partner for it. and cut back on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  feeding, you are going to pollute you tank that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fuly cycled. even if they eat all of the food, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  are prodcuing a lot more excrement than they need to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  be.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- freedombell2002 <Kpribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > hi Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Welcome to the group!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Sounds like a Gourami to me. LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I had my brother's Gourami for a while his name is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > "Killer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > he NOW lives in a 5 gallon tank all by his self (if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > that tells you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > anything) He can't play nice with the other fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > even his own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > He rams their side till he kills them. But he is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pretty fish, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > just has to live alone.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > <hoosierinfl@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I've been lurking since I joined the group and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > have gained alot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > knowledge in that time. I'm having what I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > is a problem, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > wanted to see what all of you thought.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I setup my very first tank a month ago. It's a 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > fish in it right now. I have a powder blue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > gourami, a long-finned
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > minor, a lamp eye tetra, and a Mickey Mouse platy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Everything had been going very well until
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > recently. The gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > didn't eat any food for the first week. All he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > did was hide. After
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > the first week, he snapped out of it and swam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > around normally and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > normally. Now, however, he acts as if he's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > starving 24/7 and does
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > absolutely nothing other than look for uneaten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > food on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > the tank. His only other activity is chasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > whenever
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > they come within his sight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I've been feeding them three times a day, yet he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > never stops looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > for food. The other fish have become skittish and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > swim away from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > if he even remotely comes near them. So, his only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > two activities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > searching for food and bothering the other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > All this doesn't seem normal to me, but as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > beginner, maybe I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > wrong. I would appreciate any suggestions you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > could give me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3418 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: sick angelfish Melafix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  melafix works very well as long as you remove your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  carbon form the filter. the activated carbon will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  remove the melafix from the tank. it does exactly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  what it claims though. fins and wounds are repaired
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  amazingly fast.




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- freedombell2002 <Kpribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I went to my LFS last night and this is what I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > found, "Melafix" has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > anyone used this before? I treated the tank last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > night. Today
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > everything seems okay. The cat fish are a bit more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > active but other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > then that everyone else seems to be acting the same.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > It did make my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > water a bit foamy but didn't dis color the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I'll let ya know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > how it works for the angelfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Here is the website for this product
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/aqfish.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > "freedombell2002" <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Hi all I have a pair of marble angelfish, I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > had them for about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > 6months Last night when feeding I noticed that one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > of them had, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > guess you could say "lesions" (so hard to explain)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > It has 3 small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > holes, and I do mean holes you can see right thur
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > them they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > right above the ventral fin. And when I said
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > lesions it seem to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > have a raised spot on one side of his body. A bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > white but more just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > raised. Its acting fine and eating fine. His fins
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > have a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > of "tatterness" but not clamped. I would be very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > sad to lose my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > angel but even more if is it going to spend thur
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tank. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > know what this could be? ( I know it's hard to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tell without seeing)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Is there anything I could treat the fish and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tank so "whatever"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > it is, it won't spread. Or secondary infection
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > from these lesions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > and holes. If its sores on the fish wouldn't this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > bacterial infection? trying to work this out in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > head. Thanks for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > anyones help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3419 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  it is best to feed your fish prior to adding any new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ones, as it will calm them down and make them less
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  agressive. fat and happy, lol. also it is a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  idea to acclimate them with the lights out and to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  leave the ligts out for 12 hours. this allows the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish to explore the new tank without being seen and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bothered as much. as far as mixing, i have never had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  a problem. i have 4 albinos, 2 greens, and one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  spotted. never had a problem with them at all, in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fact they have bred a few times.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- iloveguppies <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > today i bought 2 cory cats, i know 3 is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > but i don't want
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to over load my tank to quick. i know it's better to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > buy them in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pairs of there same patterns, but they only had one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > spotted one and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > i loved him so i got him and a plain goldish boring
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > colored one,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > they are so lively they swim all over the place and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the spotted one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > follows the other one who is bigger i wanted one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > about the same size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > but the guy had such a hard time catching any of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > them i told him i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > take what ever he could catch. he was a manager just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > trying to help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > since the fish lady went home already. is it true
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > you shouldn't feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > them for a day after you get new fish? i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > uploaded a pic to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > melanie's pics if anyone would like to see me pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > and very active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > new fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3420 From: greywolfmm Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks for the replies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I guess the best thing to do is replace him with a more even-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tempered fish. I wish I didn't have to, as he is a very pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish. What are the odds that he would calm down if I put another
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  gourami in with him?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The platy is doing great. He has become very fat in the short time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've had him.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I would like to add partners for my fish but I don't think my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  is ready for it. The ammonia level is at 2ppm right now.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Kevin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > gourami do much better in pairs. they can range from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > pansies, to passive, to agressive. just depends on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the specific fish that you ended up with. i would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > recomend getting a partner for it. and cut back on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > feeding, you are going to pollute you tank that is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > fuly cycled. even if they eat all of the food, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > are prodcuing a lot more excrement than they need to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- freedombell2002 <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > hi Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Welcome to the group!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Sounds like a Gourami to me. LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I had my brother's Gourami for a while his name is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > "Killer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > he NOW lives in a 5 gallon tank all by his self (if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > that tells you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > anything) He can't play nice with the other fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > even his own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > He rams their side till he kills them. But he is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > pretty fish, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > just has to live alone.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > <hoosierinfl@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > I've been lurking since I joined the group and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > have gained alot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > knowledge in that time. I'm having what I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > is a problem, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > wanted to see what all of you thought.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > I setup my very first tank a month ago. It's a 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > fish in it right now. I have a powder blue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > gourami, a long-finned
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > minor, a lamp eye tetra, and a Mickey Mouse platy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > Everything had been going very well until
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > recently. The gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > didn't eat any food for the first week. All he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > did was hide. After
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > the first week, he snapped out of it and swam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > around normally and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > ate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > normally. Now, however, he acts as if he's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > starving 24/7 and does
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > absolutely nothing other than look for uneaten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > food on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > the tank. His only other activity is chasing the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > whenever
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > they come within his sight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > I've been feeding them three times a day, yet he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > never stops looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > for food. The other fish have become skittish and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > swim away from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > if he even remotely comes near them. So, his only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > two activities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > searching for food and bothering the other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > All this doesn't seem normal to me, but as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > beginner, maybe I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > wrong. I would appreciate any suggestions you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > could give me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3421 From: Aaron Martin Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: fishy humor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A Letter Home from a Newbie Keeper

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    by John LeVasseur

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/letter.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi Mom,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When I moved into my new home I was delighted to find that I had a large community tank to watch. It was nice to know that whomever lived here before left these pets for me to enjoy and watch. Which doesn't really suprise me; it's huge. One of the nicest things I found was that their biotope was self sustaining an I didn't have to do anything by way of maintenance. Whoever set this up before me, knew a lot more than I ever will. There are lots of ornaments, good lighting, and even a few live plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    After the first few days I found that they seemed to enjoy watching me as much as I did watching them. At first they seemed to be more concerned with hiding in the darker or unseen areas, but eventually they got used to my presence, and came right up to the glass. They are kinda cute, with big round eyes. And I was delighted with their coloring, which seems to change a lot, and their fins are long and graceful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I then noticed that they have a brood. A small one though. I guess some of the others may have been eaten or something. There is a variety of sizes, and the juveniles look very similar to their parents, both in colors and body shape. They are very active and flick around the tank. Their fins are a little smaller, of course, and probably will grow in as they mature. The parents for the most part seem to ignore the juveniles, but occasionally grouped them together (I assume it was because they may have sensed a predator) and disappear as a group into one the darker areas, out of sight. Sometimes for long periods.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I became concerned over time when the male parent seemed to develop dropsy. His belly became distended, his scales opened along his belly, and he seemed to not move for long periods, especially in the evenings. This is when he would usually come out of from hiding. But he was eating ... a lot in fact. As it turned out, one of my friends told me, this is normal for this species, especially as the male matures. I was happy to find out it wasn't dropsy at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There are also several cats, which I am happy to see, since they do a good job of getting the uneaten food that falls onto the floor of the tank. Part of the self-sustaining system I was so happy get with this setup. They will occasionally group together in a school and move around all over the glass. They look like the are trying to get onto the other side of the glass. Or they will sit there, just staring. Their behaviour was very much like Corys, but I do not think that is what they are. They look different. There is one cat that looks a lot different though, and he seems to revel in chasing the other cats around the tank. He is larger, has a shorter tail, and even looks meaner. He kinda reminds me of a Flying Fox, although not as sleek. I wish I had some way of getting rid of him, because the other cats always seem to hide behind the plants, and don't come out till he's gone and hid himself. He chases the others too, but they don't seem to mind as much. Mostly they jus t ignore him, except at feeding time, when they chase him away from their food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Speaking of which, I don't even have to feed them, since it appears they are able to find food on their own.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My only complaint; I hate it when they come every week and move around my water, or when the juveniles tap on the glass, or drop dead smelling stuff into the water. It scares the heck out of me, and the other fish I live with. My new roommate Oscar hates them completely because he says they never feed him enough. Stupid carnivore! Feed him? I don't get it. I eat algae.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope all is good in Rio de Janeiro with the rest of the Affinis clan.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    - Oto

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    P.S. I've enclosed a picture of me in the new place.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Aaron R. Martin, cmt ~ (925) 337-2340
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stop by and see ~ membership is free!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3422 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you really should not have any fish in there right
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    now, but you are right, don't add more yet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- greywolfmm <hoosierinfl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks for the replies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I guess the best thing to do is replace him with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > more even-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tempered fish. I wish I didn't have to, as he is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > very pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish. What are the odds that he would calm down if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I put another
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gourami in with him?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > The platy is doing great. He has become very fat in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the short time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I've had him.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I would like to add partners for my fish but I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > think my tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is ready for it. The ammonia level is at 2ppm right
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > gourami do much better in pairs. they can range
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > pansies, to passive, to agressive. just depends
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the specific fish that you ended up with. i would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > recomend getting a partner for it. and cut back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > feeding, you are going to pollute you tank that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > fuly cycled. even if they eat all of the food,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > are prodcuing a lot more excrement than they need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- freedombell2002 <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > hi Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Welcome to the group!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sounds like a Gourami to me. LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I had my brother's Gourami for a while his name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > "Killer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > he NOW lives in a 5 gallon tank all by his self
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > that tells you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > anything) He can't play nice with the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > even his own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > He rams their side till he kills them. But he is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > pretty fish, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > just has to live alone.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > <hoosierinfl@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I've been lurking since I joined the group and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > have gained alot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > knowledge in that time. I'm having what I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > is a problem, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > wanted to see what all of you thought.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I setup my very first tank a month ago. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > fish in it right now. I have a powder blue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > gourami, a long-finned
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > minor, a lamp eye tetra, and a Mickey Mouse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > platy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Everything had been going very well until
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > recently. The gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > didn't eat any food for the first week. All
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > did was hide. After
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > the first week, he snapped out of it and swam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > around normally and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > ate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > normally. Now, however, he acts as if he's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > starving 24/7 and does
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > absolutely nothing other than look for uneaten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > food on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > the tank. His only other activity is chasing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > whenever
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > they come within his sight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I've been feeding them three times a day, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > never stops looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > for food. The other fish have become skittish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > swim away from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > if he even remotely comes near them. So, his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > two activities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > searching for food and bothering the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > All this doesn't seem normal to me, but as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > beginner, maybe I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > wrong. I would appreciate any suggestions you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > could give me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3423 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Need help quick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i just got the two cory cats yesterday and today half of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    original fish are swimming at the top looking stressed, i changed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    about 1 1/2 gallons out of there 10 gallon tank, should i change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    more? and could this be from adding to many fish and the extra food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    load to quickly should i take out the cory cats and let it settle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    back down than only add one a week back into the tank? help quick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    please i'd hate to lose any of my endlers.... thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3424 From: DB1RDMAN@WMCONNECT.COM Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: QUESTION ON KILLIFISH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm getting the bug to start a collection of Killifish, and I'm wondering about their sales potential.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I've seen them on aquabid, but I'm wondering if anyone has had any luck at selling them to a lfs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I know the typical lfs only likes to handle fishes that are suitable for, or can be acclimated to, their local water supply.  This is probably why Killifish and Discus are not normal lfs merchandise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any thoughts on this will be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3425 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Need help quick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the cori's can be used as a clean up crew, they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    eat anything that hits the bottom, but do not over
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    feed to make sure they get food. if they are hungry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they will rise for food. they could just be upsetting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    other bottom swimmers,as they are very active. do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    go over board with mesing with the tank. first of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    all, test your water quality. second you may want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    run lights out for 12-24 hours to let everyone settle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    down.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- iloveguppies <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > i just got the two cory cats yesterday and today
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > half of my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > original fish are swimming at the top looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > stressed, i changed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > about 1 1/2 gallons out of there 10 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > should i change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > more? and could this be from adding to many fish and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the extra food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > load to quickly should i take out the cory cats and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > let it settle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > back down than only add one a week back into the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank? help quick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > please i'd hate to lose any of my endlers.... thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3426 From: paul helms Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wow patrick....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i never would have thought that plants would clog a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tiny little 1 gallon undergravel filter! <---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (sarcasm)i am running a 55 gallon tank, and have 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    problems with that. if you know what you are doing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you can avoid these types of problems by trimming the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    roots occasionally.



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3427 From: Angela Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: QUESTION ON KILLIFISH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hiya,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I too became interested in killifish! I bought mine off of aquabid,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    because I couldnt find any locally. If LFS's did carry them, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    doubt they would be as low cost as they are! I have 3 pairs right
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    now and I love them!! There are a couple of guys on aquabid who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have some beautiful killies for sale. The 3 that I started with are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gardneri australe orange (bright orange and very beautiful),
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gardneri makurdi and lafia. Killifish breeders are very adamant that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you do not mix the different species, so its best to have a tank for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    each kind!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Good lucky with your killies!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Angela


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, DB1RDMAN@W...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'm getting the bug to start a collection of Killifish, and I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wondering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > about their sales potential.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I've seen them on aquabid, but I'm wondering if anyone has had any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    luck at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > selling them to a lfs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I know the typical lfs only likes to handle fishes that are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    suitable for, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > can be acclimated to, their local water supply. This is probably
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Killifish and Discus are not normal lfs merchandise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Any thoughts on this will be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3428 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Other than to say it is some type of apisto, it is hard to say due to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    quality of the photo, but if you have one of the Atlas books, either Baensch
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (preferred) or Axelrod, look under New World cichlids and apistogramma, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you should find a close match. I'd not go much by the color pattern of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    body in the photo as it looks like a fright coloration, but the red in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    single fins is probably distinctive enough to come close to an ID.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: questnjurny [mailto:questnjurny@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 9:17 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Can anyone identify this guy?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Here is my unidentified little fish that I got this week. Anyone have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    any ideas?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/jurnynquest/unknownfish.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Carly






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3429 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium revi...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gosh what happens if you get a leak.. you take it back but what do you do with the fish... like put them in the bath tub.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3430 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i alwyas feel so odd cause my tank is so different.. my gourami.. is very loving if i can say that to the other fish.. doesnt hurt them or any thing an disnt a pig or hog.. with the food... not sure mabye the dark side will come out now that i have posted this... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hi Kevin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Welcome to the group!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sounds like a Gourami to me. LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I had my brother's Gourami for a while his name is "Killer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    he NOW lives in a 5 gallon tank all by his self (if that tells you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    anything) He can't play nice with the other fish, even his own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    He rams their side till he kills them. But he is  a pretty fish, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    just has to live alone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3431 From: Patrick Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "I guess the best thing to do is replace him with a more even-tempered fish.  I wish I didn't have to, as he is a very pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish.  What are the odds that he would calm down if I put another gourami in with him?"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I would say about 0%.  He would most likely kill the new gourami, or be killed by the new gourami, which would mean the new one is worse and would kill the platy.  Replacing the gourami, or better, returning the gourami for refund would be best.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "The platy is doing great.  He has become very fat in the short time I've had him."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sure it isn't a female about to give you more platys? :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "I would like to add partners for my fish but I don't think my tank is ready for it.  The ammonia level is at 2ppm right now."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yeah, wait till after the cycle.  Paul mentioned that you shouldn't have fish.  This is referring to the fishless cycle, which is great if you don't want to risk your fish dying during the cycle.  Since you have fish already, just watch them and do a 25% water change if they look like they are having any problem at all.  Just don't touch the filter or gravel and it will be ok.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3432 From: Patrick Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        gosh what happens if you get a leak.. you take it back but what do you do with the fish... like put them in the bath tub.. shannon 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cry, a lot.  Then put them in a bath tub. :)  They have big Rubbermaid tubs at the store, about 20-30 gallons, that you can keep them and their water in, with an air pump.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3433 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        so realistly how long could they live in the tub or the rubbermaid tubs... and what about the light or is that not a priority at the moment.. shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        gosh what happens if you get a leak.. you take it back but what do you do with the fish... like put them in the bath tub.. shannon 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cry, a lot.  Then put them in a bath tub. :)  They have big Rubbermaid tubs at the store, about 20-30 gallons, that you can keep them and their water in, with an air pump.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3434 From: Patrick Date: 7/10/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, I would say indefinitely if it wasn't for the fact that the filter would be returned to the store with the tank.  They would probably die of chemical exposure in the bath tub, but the rubber box with a filter wouldn't be any different than a tank with a filter, just no light on it (which to address your question would probably be unimportant if you leave it setting near a lamp or window).  There are a lot of sites that promote "summer tubbing" where you put a plastic or rubber tub like I mentioned outside and move some fish to it for the summer.  It could also be a year-round goldfish pond if you had a big one (tub, not goldfish).  Just use a regular pond filter.  They make clear ones that you can see through, too (again, I mean clear tubs, not filters).  I bred my male and female betta (which others would I breed?) in a 3 gallon sterilite box. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I keep pieces of sponge in my filters at all times that I can wrap around an airstone and stick in a piece of pvc pipe with holes drilled into it for a sponge filter.  Using that, the gravel from the tank, and the water, the tank would go through ammonia and nitrite spikes in a few days.  By the way, the reason I keep the sponges is in case I need to cycle another tank, or I decide to clean the filter cartridges.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Since I keep getting further and further from the original discussion, if you clean one up really well, you can use one of those $8 kid pools they sell, about a foot deep, as a pond.  Just dig a hole deep enough to sit it in, or leave it on the ground.  That could be a place to breed some fish naturally (guppies and endlers?).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3435 From: Damon Bradbury Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: sick angelfish Melafix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Melafix is a great product, I use it for my aquarium maintenance business.  Be sure to remove any carbon from your tank, and if you have any scaleless fish or loaches do a half dose.  If you have a uv filter unplug the light.  It will cause the mediaction to break down.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Damon Bradbury
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          freedombell2002 <Kpribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I went to my LFS last night and this is what I found,  "Melafix" has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          anyone used this before? I treated the tank last night. Today
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          everything seems okay. The cat fish are a bit more active but other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          then that everyone else seems to be acting the same. It did make my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water a bit foamy but didn't dis color the water. I'll let ya know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          how it works for the angelfish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Here is the website for this product

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.aquariumpharm.com/aqfish.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sherrie


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "freedombell2002" <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Hi all I have a pair of marble angelfish, I have had them for about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 6months Last night when feeding I noticed that one of them had, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > guess you could say "lesions" (so hard to explain) It has 3 small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > holes, and I do mean holes you can see right thur them they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > right above the ventral fin. And when I said lesions it seem to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have a raised spot on one side of his body. A bit white but more just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > raised. Its acting fine and eating fine. His fins have a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > of "tatterness" but not clamped. I would be very sad to lose my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > angel but even more if is it going to spend thur tank. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > know what this could be? ( I know it's hard to tell without seeing)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Is there anything I could treat the fish and the tank so "whatever"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it is, it won't spread. Or secondary infection from these lesions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and holes. If its sores on the fish wouldn't this be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bacterial infection? trying to work this out in my head. Thanks for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > anyones help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sherrie



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3436 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          it's really easy to love them, they are even cooler once home in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank than they looked in the store tank. =:o) aren't the pandas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          expensive ones?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Oh I just love those little Corys too. I have 6 in my Guppy tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have 2 Julii, 2 Albino and just recently I bought 2 Panda. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          are so much fun to watch. Just like little vacuum cleaners for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bottom of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Pam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3437 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          yeah that does make sense about why to feed them first. i didn't do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the lights out though (only while the bag was floating). i had a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          little scare with my endlers though they where swimming at the top
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          so i did a water change and they seem to be better now. my spotted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          one had been in with the other kind for so long i think he thinks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          he's one of them, he follows the other one all over the place.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it is best to feed your fish prior to adding any new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ones, as it will calm them down and make them less
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > agressive. fat and happy, lol. also it is a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > idea to acclimate them with the lights out and to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > leave the ligts out for 12 hours. this allows the new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish to explore the new tank without being seen and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bothered as much. as far as mixing, i have never had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > a problem. i have 4 albinos, 2 greens, and one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > spotted. never had a problem with them at all, in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fact they have bred a few times.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- iloveguppies <CK147@H...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > today i bought 2 cory cats, i know 3 is better
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > but i don't want
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > to over load my tank to quick. i know it's better to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > buy them in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > pairs of there same patterns, but they only had one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > spotted one and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > i loved him so i got him and a plain goldish boring
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > colored one,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > they are so lively they swim all over the place and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > the spotted one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > follows the other one who is bigger i wanted one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > about the same size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > but the guy had such a hard time catching any of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > them i told him i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > take what ever he could catch. he was a manager just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > trying to help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > since the fish lady went home already. is it true
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > you shouldn't feed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > them for a day after you get new fish? i have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > uploaded a pic to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > melanie's pics if anyone would like to see me pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > and very active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > new fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3438 From: paul helms Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          their temperments realy do fall into 3 categories,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          passive, aggressive, pansy.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i alwyas feel so odd cause my tank is so different..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > my gourami.. is very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > loving if i can say that to the other fish.. doesnt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hurt them or any thing an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > disnt a pig or hog.. with the food... not sure mabye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the dark side will come out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > now that i have posted this... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hi Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Welcome to the group!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sounds like a Gourami to me. LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I had my brother's Gourami for a while his name is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > "Killer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > he NOW lives in a 5 gallon tank all by his self (if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > that tells you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > anything) He can't play nice with the other fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > even his own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > He rams their side till he kills them. But he is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > pretty fish, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > just has to live alone.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3439 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium revi...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 7/11/2004 12:29:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, agentscullyeyore@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          gosh what happens if you get a leak.. you take it back but what do you do with the fish

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That's why you are supposed to test a new tank for leaks before you put any fish in it. Just put water in it and leave it for a few days, preferably outside.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This is especially a good idea when obtaining a used aquarium.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3440 From: Pam Berg Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think I paid about $7.99 each for the Pandas at PetCo.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Pam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 10:04 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: New cory cats

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          it's really easy to love them, they are even cooler once home in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank than they looked in the store tank. =:o) aren't the pandas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          expensive ones?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Oh I just love those little Corys too. I have 6 in my Guppy tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have 2 Julii, 2 Albino and just recently I bought 2 Panda. They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          are so much fun to watch. Just like little vacuum cleaners for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bottom of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Pam

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3441 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i know i couldnt have paid that much for them cuase i had bought live plants and 5 other fish and my total was less than 20 bucks... shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          it's really easy to love them, they are even cooler once home in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tank than they looked in the store tank. =:o) aren't the pandas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          expensive ones?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3442 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: attn patrick] new member - aquarium revi...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i know that i was addressing patrick about when you get a leak later on in life.. cuase i am sure that will happen.. i would thinka nyone who has done the proper research or even just read the instructions on the new tank woudl know to test the tank for leaks... but thanks patrick.. good to know if i ever do have  a leak or whatnot that a tub can work till i get a new tank.... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          gosh what happens if you get a leak.. you take it back but what do you do with the fish


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That's why you are supposed to test a new tank for leaks before you put any fish in it. Just put water in it and leave it for a few days, preferably outside.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3443 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not as much as i thought, but more than i think i would pay. =:o)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i'm a cheap skate

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I think I paid about $7.99 each for the Pandas at PetCo.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Pam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3444 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That sounds like a good deal.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i know i couldnt have paid that much for them cuase i had bought
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          live plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and 5 other fish and my total was less than 20 bucks... shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it's really easy to love them, they are even cooler once home in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tank than they looked in the store tank. =:o) aren't the pandas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > expensive ones?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3445 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Honestly, for the most part there are only a few gourami's or more specifically fish in the family Anabantidae (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are aggressive if not *crowded*.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The main species which are naturally agressive and are found in the pet trade are the following:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Common name                      Latin Name                                Comments
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Kissing Gourami                  Helostoma teminicki                     Usually only aggressive towards each other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Combtail Gourami                Belontia Signata                           Very aggressive 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          True Giant Gourami              Osphronemus goramy                   Due only to size (upto 30 inches)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Siamese Fighting Fish         Betta Splendens                            usually males only fight but they also pick on smaller fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of these, they are specific feeders, hard to keep, have sharp teeth, and are not for the less than very experienced fishkeeper.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          *Practically all fish will exhibit agressive behainvior if crowded* 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3446 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Where did you post thgis image? Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Gourami problem

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i alwyas feel so odd cause my tank is so different.. my gourami.. is very loving if i can say that to the other fish.. doesnt hurt them or any thing an disnt a pig or hog.. with the food... not sure mabye the dark side will come out now that i have posted this... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          hi Kevin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Welcome to the group!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sounds like a Gourami to me. LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I had my brother's Gourami for a while his name is "Killer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          he NOW lives in a 5 gallon tank all by his self (if that tells you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          anything) He can't play nice with the other fish, even his own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          He rams their side till he kills them. But he is  a pretty fish, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          just has to live alone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sherrie


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3447 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          oh they are just the cooliest i used to have my fav fish being the albino cory but now in a clear first is the panda one.. worth 10 bucks to me but i know i didnt pay that much i am thinking in the 3 dollar range... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not as much as i thought, but more than i think i would pay. =:o)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i'm a cheap skate

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I think I paid about $7.99 each for the Pandas at PetCo.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Pam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3448 From: Tina Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have 2 fantail goldfish and 1 sunbumpkin? I think that's what he'scalled. He has black,orange and silver spots and he looks like afantail.Anyway, they all find it fascinating to go to the top of thetank and try to get the air bubbles from my airstone. Can this be aproblem for them? I worry that they will start sucking in air. Isthere anything I can do to prevent this? Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3449 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fish. My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:59:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Honestly, for the most part there are only a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          gourami's or more specifically fish in the family Anabantidae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are aggressive if not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          *crowded*.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The main species which are naturally agressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          are found in the pet trade are the following:







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Latin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Comments





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Kissing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Helostoma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          teminicki
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Usually only aggressive towards each other





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Combtail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Belontia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Signata
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Very aggressive





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          True Giant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Gourami Osphronemus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          goramy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Due only to size (upto 30 inches)





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Siamese Fighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Fish Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Splendens usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          males only fight but they also pick on smaller fish



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          these, they are specific feeders, hard to keep, have sharp teeth, and are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          for the less than very experienced fishkeeper.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mark







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          *Practically all fish will exhibit agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          behainvior if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          crowded*





















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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3450 From: red-eye Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Can't say I have ever heard of trimming the roots before.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          red-eye

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          wow patrick....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i never would have thought that plants would clog a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          tiny little 1 gallon undergravel filter! <---
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (sarcasm)i am running a 55 gallon tank, and have 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          problems with that. if you know what you are doing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you can avoid these types of problems by trimming the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          roots occasionally.



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3451 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I would pay that much, as it is for my two i just bought i paid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          $3.34 a piece before tax. =:o) they seem to have adapted to the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          very well, we didn't make it to wichita this weekend maybe next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          weekend and if we do i'll look for the panda's.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > oh they are just the cooliest i used to have my fav fish being the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          albino
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > cory but now in a clear first is the panda one.. worth 10 bucks to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          me but i know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i didnt pay that much i am thinking in the 3 dollar range...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Not as much as i thought, but more than i think i would pay. =:o)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i'm a cheap skate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I think I paid about $7.99 each for the Pandas at PetCo.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Pam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3452 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          mark that is where i bought mine and i bought that same kind and mine isnt aggressive... i have like 25 fish in a 20 gallon.. which i know is overcrowded but it is planted and i have a lot of really small fish like neon tetras.. anyhow... i guess it jsut comes with different fish... petsmart is really good about returning dead fish mabye you can bring him back alive and just ask for a exchange.. or give him away or put him by himslef and by a new one.. community fish are so cheap.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fish.  My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3453 From: Aaron Martin Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: "Trevor"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 16:02:08 -0000
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: pH questions






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Aaron R. Martin, cmt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (925) 337-2340

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3454 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What do you propose is the cause of this placid fishes mental instability?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Other than a powderblue is a genetic weak-link created by inbreeding of an already delicate species, Colisa lalia .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The parent species is very difficult to keep for any length of time though there are those who have been successful but for the most part they last about 5 months to 1 year. Powder Blue or Neon Blue (common names are difficult to use for identification as many species share a single name).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for temperament, the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation. Why your fish is aggressive might have one ask what are your other tank mates?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The gourami's we find in the fish trade are rather easy to deal with , they are not complicated species, not like we are dealing with Trinaca (giant) salt water Clams being force feed with a turkey baster....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish.  My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:59:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Honestly, for the most part there are only a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gourami's or more specifically fish in the family Anabantidae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are aggressive if not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *crowded*.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The main species which are naturally agressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are found in the pet trade are the following:







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            name                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Latin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Name                              
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Comments





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kissing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Helostoma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            teminicki                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Usually only aggressive towards each other





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Combtail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Belontia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Signata                          
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Very aggressive





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            True Giant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami              Osphronemus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goramy                  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Due only to size (upto 30 inches)





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Siamese Fighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Fish         Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Splendens                            usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            males only fight but they also pick on smaller fish



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            these, they are specific feeders, hard to keep, have sharp teeth, and are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for the less than very experienced fishkeeper.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *Practically all fish will exhibit agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            behainvior if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            crowded*




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
















                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor






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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ________________________________

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3455 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I would never dictate the correct amount of fish to be in any one type set-up, remember the most important idea of fiskeeping (more ironic thast a joke) fish can't reead so don't go by the books. If fish are added at a slow rate and you have plants the tank can hold an amssing amount of fish, I too used to have a huge overloaded tank, I blew it when I miss diagnosed a lagae problem and blamed the high biomass. dropping 3/4 of the fish load killed the nitrafying bacteria and then I got cynobacteria which killed off he tank. I just get everything back in line. And the book, it's sitting in the wood pile for next winters fire...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I hope yuou have nother but good success with your tank and just use your own observation and take all our advice as juct that ,,,advice, not dictation... you are the controller of your aquatic universe, may it exsist forever...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 10:39 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mark that is where i bought mine and i bought that same kind and mine isnt aggressive... i have like 25 fish in a 20 gallon.. which i know is overcrowded but it is planted and i have a lot of really small fish like neon tetras.. anyhow... i guess it jsut comes with different fish... petsmart is really good about returning dead fish mabye you can bring him back alive and just ask for a exchange.. or give him away or put him by himslef and by a new one.. community fish are so cheap.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish.  My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3456 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The other three fish are:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mickey Mouse platy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Long-finned Red Minor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Lamp Eye Tetra


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:12:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What do you propose is the cause of this placid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fishes mental instability?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Other than a powderblue is a genetic weak-link
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            created by inbreeding of an already delicate species, Colisa lalia .


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The parent species is very difficult to keep for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            any length of time though there are those who have been successful but for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            most part they last about 5 months to 1 year. Powder Blue or Neon Blue (common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            names are difficult to use for identification as many species share a single
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            name).



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for temperament, the "Dwarf Gourami" is well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a real "Chicken" when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            it comes to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            confrontation. Why your fish is aggressive might have one ask what are your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            other tank mates?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The gourami's we find in the fish trade are rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            easy to deal with , they are not complicated species, not like we are dealing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            with Trinaca (giant) salt water Clams being force feed with a turkey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            baster....



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Northridge,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mbethke@...



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Teague

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:50 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish. My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: Sun,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            11 Jul 2004 17:59:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Honestly,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for the most part there are only a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gourami's or more specifically fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            in the family Anabantidae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aggressive if not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *crowded*.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The main species which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            naturally agressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are found in the pet trade are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            following:







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Common

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            name

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Latin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Name

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Comments





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kissing

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Helostoma

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            teminicki

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Usually only aggressive towards each other






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Combtail

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Belontia

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Signata

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Very aggressive





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            True Giant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Osphronemus

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goramy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Due only to size (upto 30 inches)





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Siamese Fighting

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Fish Betta

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Splendens
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            males only fight but they also pick on smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            these,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            they are specific feeders, hard to keep, have sharp teeth, and are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the less than very experienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fishkeeper.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *Practically
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            all fish will exhibit agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            behainvior if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            crowded*























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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If ignorance is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            bliss, why aren't more people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            happy?





























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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3457 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: QUESTION ON KILLIFISH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The problem with raising and selling killies is in the way they breed and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            lay eggs. Most of us are used to fish that lay a quantity of eggs, or drop a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            quantity of fry, all at once. We can then hatch and raise the fry rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            conveniently. However, with killies, they tend to lay an egg or two a day,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            everyday. Doesn't matter whether they are mop spawners or substrate spawners
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (really cool to watch), that is how they do it. The breeder will then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            collect the mop(s) or substrate tubs on a regular basis.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And now, the really interesting stuff begins to happen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Many killie eggs go through what is known as diapause. This means that the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            eggs will stop developing for a week, to six months before they begin to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            develop again. How the eggs are handled depends on the species. Once the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            diapause period has ended, the eggs are then, once again, placed in water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for the development and hatching of fry to continue. Some eggs will not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hatch the first go round and they are then rested again for another hatching
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            period later.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Raising the fry is fairly normal from this point onward, but the numbers are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fairly small, unless one has a large breeding population.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Will the LFS like them? Most likely? Will you be able to make any money on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the deal? Not likely. The numbers are just not there. This is why you do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            see killies in the LFS very often, and when you do, the prices are a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            high for the average purchaser. This is why you normally find them only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            available form other hobbyists.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes, it is fun to do. Yes, they have a rather interesting life cycle. As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ready money makers, even for trades, forget it. You do it for the love of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: DB1RDMAN@... [mailto:DB1RDMAN@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 7:56 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: DB1RDMAN@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] QUESTION ON KILLIFISH


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm getting the bug to start a collection of Killifish, and I'm wondering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            about their sales potential.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've seen them on aquabid, but I'm wondering if anyone has had any luck at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            selling them to a lfs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know the typical lfs only likes to handle fishes that are suitable for, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            can be acclimated to, their local water supply. This is probably why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Killifish and Discus are not normal lfs merchandise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Any thoughts on this will be appreciated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks.





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3458 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I beg to differ on you with your statement below that "As for temperament,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation." It simply ain't true. Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            though most of the popular literature persists in stating that dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gouramis are timid fish, when they are properly kept, with conditions to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            their liking, they are as aggressive as any in the gourami "family" that are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            kept in the hobby. It is only when they are out of their element that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            become the timid, non-aggressors, as stated in the popular literature.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Unfortunately, that is how many are kept and the myth is perpetuated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 9:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What do you propose is the cause of this placid fishes mental instability?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Other than a powderblue is a genetic weak-link created by inbreeding of an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            already delicate species, Colisa lalia .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The parent species is very difficult to keep for any length of time though
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            there are those who have been successful but for the most part they last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            about 5 months to 1 year. Powder Blue or Neon Blue (common names are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            difficult to use for identification as many species share a single name).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for temperament, the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            non-aggressive if not a real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation. Why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            your fish is aggressive might have one ask what are your other tank mates?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The gourami's we find in the fish trade are rather easy to deal with , they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are not complicated species, not like we are dealing with Trinaca (giant)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            salt water Clams being force feed with a turkey baster....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish. My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:59:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Honestly, for the most part there are only a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gourami's or more specifically fish in the family Anabantidae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are aggressive if not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *crowded*.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The main species which are naturally agressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are found in the pet trade are the following:







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Latin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Comments





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kissing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Helostoma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            teminicki
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Usually only aggressive towards each other





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Combtail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Belontia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Signata
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Very aggressive





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            True Giant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gourami Osphronemus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            goramy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Due only to size (upto 30 inches)





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Siamese Fighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Fish Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Splendens usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            males only fight but they also pick on smaller fish



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            these, they are specific feeders, hard to keep, have sharp teeth, and are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            for the less than very experienced fishkeeper.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            *Practically all fish will exhibit agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            behainvior if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            crowded*





















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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?












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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3459 From: Patrick Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Some people trim the roots to make the plant grow bushier.  I have found that it causes terrible cloudiness and probably increase in bad chemicals when the plant is pulled from the gravel.  It is also a major mistake to ever pull a plant up if you use Jobe's plant stick fertilizer (I've never used them, but those who do tell me that they get an algae bloom if they are removed from the gravel because they dissolve into the water).  I prefer to leave my rooted plants where they are to risking algae blooms or dead fish from sudden rises in nitrates.  I would, therefore, never suggest a ugf in a planted aquarium.  But, I want to give Paul credit.  He says it works for him, and in all those tanks he has set up, so it must work for him.  And in this hobby, the important thing to learn is that some things work better for some people than others.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Can't say I have ever heard of trimming the roots before.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3460 From: Patrick Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I had 2 blue gouramis once.  One almost killed the other, so I moved the meaner one.  A few weeks later, I returned the meaner one and the "nice one" almost killed the "meaner one".  Well, from my observations, and those of others who have had this problem, blue gouarmis are only slightly less aggressive than 2 male bettas.  I had 2 dwarf gouarmis and a paradise gourami/fish together.  The dwarfs died within a week due to the dreaded w-mart disease, so I never got to see much of them.  The paradise fish still lives (got him at an lfs) and is not a bad as the blue gouramis.  In fact, I thought it would kill the glolights, but it never bothers them.  The worst it has done is it tried to swallow a neon.  The neon is still alive. :)  It does, however, swim after other fish and attacked my male betta (which had to be moved after less than an hour).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Date: 07/11/04 22:00:08
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I beg to differ on you with your statement below that "As for temperament,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation." It simply ain't true. Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                though most of the popular literature persists in stating that dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gouramis are timid fish, when they are properly kept, with conditions to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                their liking, they are as aggressive as any in the gourami "family" that are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                kept in the hobby. It is only when they are out of their element that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                become the timid, non-aggressors, as stated in the popular literature.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Unfortunately, that is how many are kept and the myth is perpetuated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@socal.rr.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 9:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What do you propose is the cause of this placid fishes mental instability?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Other than a powderblue is a genetic weak-link created by inbreeding of an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                already delicate species, Colisa lalia .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The parent species is very difficult to keep for any length of time though
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                there are those who have been successful but for the most part they last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                about 5 months to 1 year. Powder Blue or Neon Blue (common names are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                difficult to use for identification as many species share a single name).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                As for temperament, the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                non-aggressive if not a real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation. Why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                your fish is aggressive might have one ask what are your other tank mates?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The gourami's we find in the fish trade are rather easy to deal with , they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are not complicated species, not like we are dealing with Trinaca (giant)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                salt water Clams being force feed with a turkey baster....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@socal.rr.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish.  My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@socal.rr.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:59:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Honestly, for the most part there are only a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gourami's or more specifically fish in the family Anabantidae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are aggressive if not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                *crowded*.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The main species which are naturally agressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are found in the pet trade are the following:







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Latin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Comments





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kissing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Helostoma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                teminicki
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Usually only aggressive towards each other





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Combtail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Belontia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Signata
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Very aggressive





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                True Giant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami              Osphronemus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                goramy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Due only to size (upto 30 inches)





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Siamese Fighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Fish         Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Splendens                            usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                males only fight but they also pick on smaller fish



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                these, they are specific feeders, hard to keep, have sharp teeth, and are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                for the less than very experienced fishkeeper.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                *Practically all fish will exhibit agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                behainvior if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                crowded*





















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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?












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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3461 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Fascinating, I have yet to encounter this behavior , Seems that maybe there is a new chapter to be written on these guys, could it be through the unregulated breeding pracitices a normally timid species has taken on an agressive disposition ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Reason for my persistence with this behavior is based on years of observation, of course like any "Casual researcher"  I must obey rules governing and accept that there are times when fish do exhibit abnormal tendencies. We must then examine the reasons behind this to determine the unusual behavior. So if it's within your abilities of record to share maybe a solution is at hand , or at least at reason.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                With all respect,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I beg to differ on you with your statement below that "As for temperament,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation." It simply ain't true. Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                though most of the popular literature persists in stating that dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gouramis are timid fish, when they are properly kept, with conditions to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                their liking, they are as aggressive as any in the gourami "family" that are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                kept in the hobby. It is only when they are out of their element that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                become the timid, non-aggressors, as stated in the popular literature.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Unfortunately, that is how many are kept and the myth is perpetuated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 9:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What do you propose is the cause of this placid fishes mental instability?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Other than a powderblue is a genetic weak-link created by inbreeding of an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                already delicate species, Colisa lalia .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The parent species is very difficult to keep for any length of time though
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                there are those who have been successful but for the most part they last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                about 5 months to 1 year. Powder Blue or Neon Blue (common names are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                difficult to use for identification as many species share a single name).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                As for temperament, the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                non-aggressive if not a real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation. Why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                your fish is aggressive might have one ask what are your other tank mates?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The gourami's we find in the fish trade are rather easy to deal with , they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are not complicated species, not like we are dealing with Trinaca (giant)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                salt water Clams being force feed with a turkey baster....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish.  My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:59:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Honestly, for the most part there are only a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gourami's or more specifically fish in the family Anabantidae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are aggressive if not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                *crowded*.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The main species which are naturally agressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are found in the pet trade are the following:







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Latin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Comments





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kissing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Helostoma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                teminicki
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Usually only aggressive towards each other





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Combtail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Belontia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Signata
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Very aggressive





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                True Giant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami              Osphronemus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                goramy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Due only to size (upto 30 inches)





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Siamese Fighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Fish         Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Splendens                            usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                males only fight but they also pick on smaller fish



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                these, they are specific feeders, hard to keep, have sharp teeth, and are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                for the less than very experienced fishkeeper.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                *Practically all fish will exhibit agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                behainvior if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                crowded*





















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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?












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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3462 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                With the exception of the platy the others are very good canadates for a community aquarium. *Platys* are notorius fin munchers but mostly nocturnally.  In the aquarium trade they are sold as being so gentle, you don't pay much attention to them as being the cause of the fin damage to toehr's in the tank, then one night you see them in action as I did .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So don't put it past them. I presume the reason they are so easily sold in the aquarium trade has little to do with the fact that they are gentle and more to do with the fact that they breed like rabbits.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So if you like long finned fish or passive tetras dump the platys.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                *platy's also includes swordtails and mollies, they are not to be trusted even with themselves*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 2:29 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The other three fish are:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mickey Mouse platy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Long-finned Red Minor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Lamp Eye Tetra


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:12:52 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What do you propose is the cause of this placid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fishes mental instability?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Other than a powderblue is a genetic weak-link
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                created by inbreeding of an already delicate species, Colisa lalia .


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The parent species is very difficult to keep for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                any length of time though there are those who have been successful but for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                most part they last about 5 months to 1 year. Powder Blue or Neon Blue (common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                names are difficult to use for identification as many species share a single
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                name).



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                As for temperament, the "Dwarf Gourami" is well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a real "Chicken" when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                it comes to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                confrontation. Why your fish is aggressive might have one ask what are your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                other tank mates?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The gourami's we find in the fish trade are rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                easy to deal with , they are not complicated species, not like we are dealing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                with Trinaca (giant) salt water Clams being force feed with a turkey
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                baster....



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Northridge,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish.  My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Date: Sun,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  11 Jul 2004 17:59:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Honestly,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for the most part there are only a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gourami's or more specifically fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  in the family Anabantidae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  aggressive if not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                *crowded*.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The main species which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  naturally agressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are found in the pet trade are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  following:







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                name                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Latin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Name                              
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Comments





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kissing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Helostoma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                teminicki                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Usually only aggressive towards each other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Combtail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Belontia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Signata                          
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Very aggressive





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                True Giant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Osphronemus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                goramy                  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Due only to size (upto 30 inches)





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Siamese Fighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Fish         Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Splendens                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                males only fight but they also pick on smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                these,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they are specific feeders, hard to keep, have sharp teeth, and are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the less than very experienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fishkeeper.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                *Practically
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  all fish will exhibit agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                behainvior if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                crowded*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
















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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If ignorance is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bliss, why aren't more people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  happy?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 








                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        
















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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kevin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3463 From: Patrick Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Funny you should say that.  We have very opposite fish.  My gouramis are aggressive, mollies and swordtails peaceful.  Your gouramis are peaceful, and platys are aggressive.  :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3464 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hummmm, Strange behavior, I keep reading accounts now of bizzare acts which defy what is been record for a very long time..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Two males of almost any species will combat, but I can't explain all this behavior.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    All of this isn't being deleted , it's being added to my database, Thank you .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    See, gouramis, bettas, paradise have been kept for many reasons by the Chinese for some 4,000 years. Bettas in their more natural forms have been in the rice patties keeping the mosquitoes under control, Blue, giants and a few others have been raised for food, and paradise were kept as pets as a sign of wealth , prosperity and luck, So as you see there is recoreded history. Try and find this on chiclids and all you'll find is they were eaten buy indigenous peoples. Tetras, weren't even considered for much as they were too small to eat, except their larger cousins piranha and pacu.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So there seems to much more to be learned ,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    MArk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 4:35 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I had 2 blue gouramis once.  One almost killed the other, so I moved the meaner one.  A few weeks later, I returned the meaner one and the "nice one" almost killed the "meaner one".  Well, from my observations, and those of others who have had this problem, blue gouarmis are only slightly less aggressive than 2 male bettas.  I had 2 dwarf gouarmis and a paradise gourami/fish together.  The dwarfs died within a week due to the dreaded w-mart disease, so I never got to see much of them.  The paradise fish still lives (got him at an lfs) and is not a bad as the blue gouramis.  In fact, I thought it would kill the glolights, but it never bothers them.  The worst it has done is it tried to swallow a neon.  The neon is still alive. :)  It does, however, swim after other fish and attacked my male betta (which had to be moved after less than an hour).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: 07/11/04 22:00:08
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I beg to differ on you with your statement below that "As for temperament,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation." It simply ain't true. Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    though most of the popular literature persists in stating that dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gouramis are timid fish, when they are properly kept, with conditions to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    their liking, they are as aggressive as any in the gourami "family" that are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    kept in the hobby. It is only when they are out of their element that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    become the timid, non-aggressors, as stated in the popular literature.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Unfortunately, that is how many are kept and the myth is perpetuated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@socal.rr.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 9:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami proble! m/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What do you propose is the cause of this placid fishes mental instability?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Other than a powderblue is a genetic weak-link created by inbreeding of an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    already delicate species, Colisa lalia .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The parent species is very difficult to keep for any length of time though
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    there are those who have been successful but for the most part they last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    about 5 months to 1 year. Powder Blue or Neon Blue (common names are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    difficult to use for identification as many species share a single name).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As for temperament, the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    non-aggressive if not a real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation. Why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    your fish is aggressive might have one ask what are your other tank mates?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The gourami's we find in the fish trade are rather easy to deal with , they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    are not complicated species, not like we are dealing with Trinaca (giant)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    salt water Clams being force feed with a turkey baster..! ..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    91 325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mbethke@socal.rr.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    fish.  My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@socal.rr.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:59:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Honestly, for the most part there are only a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gourami's or more specifically fish in the family Anabantidae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are aggressive if not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    *crowde! d*.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The main species which are naturally agressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    are found in the pet trade are the following:







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Latin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Comments





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Kissing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Helostoma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    teminicki
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Usually only aggressive towards each other





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Combtail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Belontia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Signata
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Very aggressive





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    True Giant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Gourami              Osphronemus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    goramy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Due only to size (upto 30 inches)





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Siamese Fighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Fish         Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Splendens                            usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    males only fight but they also pick on smaller fish



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    these, th! ey are specific feeders, hard to keep, have sharp teeth, and are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    no t
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    for the less than very experienced fishkeeper.





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mark







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    *Practically all fish will exhibit agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    behainvior if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    crowded*





















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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If ignorance is bliss, why ! aren't more people happy?












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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3465 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Starting Right With Aquariums, Part II
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In my message last week, I urged you to read, read, read. Collect as much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    information as you can before getting and setting up a tank. Once you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    done that, and gotten an idea of your water quality out of the tap, you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    probably have a pretty good idea of the type(s) of fish you would like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    get. Now let's look at a tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    We are going to want to get the largest sized tank we can get, to fit in an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    area that you would like to have the tank set up in. The reason for getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a large tank, especially if this is your first tank, is not to get you to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    spend a lot of money. It is to save you money in the long run, and help you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    be successful right from the get go in your new hobby. Also, and an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    important also, is that the more water you have, the longer it takes for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    something to go wrong with the water quality, thus giving you more time to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    diagnose and fix the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you have 48" of linear space that you can fill, you should be thinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    along the lines of a 50 gallon or larger, depending on the depth of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    space. Most tanks from 50 to 100 or so gallons will need about 18" of depth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to your space, that is from the wall to the front of the tank. This includes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the width of the tank, plus space behind for cables, tubing, and hang off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the back filters. If you have more depth available, you can go a bit wider
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    on the tank and get a larger volume of water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You will also need to consider something on which the tank can rest. While
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you may be tempted to use a piece of already existing furniture as a stand,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    please don't do that. It is not built to take the weight of a tank full of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    water. A rough estimate of the weight of a tank can be 10 pounds per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The water itself weighs a bit over 8.4 lbs/gallon. the rest is the weight of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the tank itself and everything that will go in and on the tank. As I said,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the 10 lbs./gallon is a rough estimate. Add more substrate than normal--and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you have more weight. Add more rocks, again more weight. A going aquarium is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a HEAVY object. Make sure that your floor can support the weight as well as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    your stand. Most homes, of average construction can support quite large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tanks. I lived, for some time, on the second floor of an old farmhouse, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I had over 300 gallons of water in the living room without any problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Once you have decided what you'd like for a tank, it is time to go shopping.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am fortunate that I live in an area where there are several well stocked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    shops within a few hours drive, from which I can get, out of stock, nearly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    any size tank I'd like up to about 360 or 400 gallons. (Getting it home may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    be an entirely different story, however <g>). You may not be so fortunate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You may be rather limited in your actual choices, though most any place
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    would be willing to special order a size they do not have in stock, though
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it may take a week or two for it to arrive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Many of the larger tanks are now made with tempered glass, though some still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    come in the thicker and heavy plate glass. The other tank material you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    likely to see is acrylic. I'm not going to get into a debate about which is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    better and why. All have good points to recommend them, and bad points that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    may steer you away form them. Talk with your dealer and find what he has to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    say. He is the one who would like to have your business today, and again in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the future. He will steer you in the direction he feels is best for you and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    himself. After all, he will have to put up with you after the purchase as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Once you have found a style and size you like, you'll need to pick a stand.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Again, there are a number of styles and basically two materials to chose
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    from--wood and wrought iron. Make your choice. Either material is good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Next will be the tank cover. You can get a cover of glass or plastic, or a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hood that also contains lighting apparatus. Personally, I'd go for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    separate light and cover, as then I can add or subtract light strips as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    needed for the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To finish off, you'll need your substrate, heaters, and filters. These I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cover next time around. You can probably feel your wallet getting quite thin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    already. Then it will be time to load the semi trailer you brought to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    store and drive on home <g>.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As always, your questions and comments are welcome.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3466 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My first thought was a checkerboard but it looks like it could be some sort
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of apistogramma, it's hard to tell with that pic.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: "questnjurny" <questnjurny@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Here is my unidentified little fish that I got this week. Anyone have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/jurnynquest/unknownfish.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3467 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No, breeding does not have anything to do with it. I had observed this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    behavior more than 30 years ago when I had several tanks that had dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gouramis among the inhabitants of these tanks, and in every case, they were,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the more or less, benevolent dictators of the tank. What they said went, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    if you obeyed, you were left alone, but you were tortured otherwise <g>.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This was prior to the first varieties being developed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Even then, if you were not paying attention to the goings on in that tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you may have been fooled into believing that they were, indeed, timid and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    retiring fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:45 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Fascinating, I have yet to encounter this behavior , Seems that maybe there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    is a new chapter to be written on these guys, could it be through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    unregulated breeding pracitices a normally timid species has taken on an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    agressive disposition ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Reason for my persistence with this behavior is based on years of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    observation, of course like any "Casual researcher" I must obey rules
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    governing and accept that there are times when fish do exhibit abnormal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tendencies. We must then examine the reasons behind this to determine the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    unusual behavior. So if it's within your abilities of record to share maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a solution is at hand , or at least at reason.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    With all respect,,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mbethke@...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Steve Szabo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I beg to differ on you with your statement below that "As for temperament,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation." It simply ain't true. Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    though most of the popular literature persists in stating that dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    gouramis are timid fish, when they are properly kept, with conditions to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    their liking, they are as aggressive as any in the gourami "family" that are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    kept in the hobby. It is only when they are out of their element that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    become the timid, non-aggressors, as stated in the popular literature.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Unfortunately, that is how many are kept and the myth is perpetuated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3468 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Platies in general will do fine by themselves. Again depending on the individual fish's personality you will occasionally come across some that do not. They are not technically schooling fish, they just enjoy the company of their own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But I do know that your platy must be terribly lonely... they are schooling fish. The rare times I've had to seclude any of my platies away from the others, they refused to eat until they rejoined the school.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3469 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Interesting comments regarding platies/livebearers. Platies were the first fish I put in my 29g after it cycled. I've never had problems either between themselves or between them and the other fish. I belong to a number of online fishkeeping forums, including some devoted to livebearers, and have never once heard that they are 'fin munchers'.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    With the exception of the platy the others are very good canadates for a community aquarium. *Platys* are notorius fin munchers but mostly nocturnally.  In the aquarium trade they are sold as being so gentle, you don't pay much attention to them as being the cause of the fin damage to toehr's in the tank, then one night you see them in action as I did .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So don't put it past them. I presume the reason they are so easily sold in the aquarium trade has little to do with the fact that they are gentle and more to do with the fact that they breed like rabbits.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So if you like long finned fish or passive tetras dump the platys.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    *platy's also includes swordtails and mollies, they are not to be trusted even with themselves*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3470 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Cories are schooling fish, a group of at least 5 or 6 of one species is best for the fish to be happiest.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Pam Berg

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Oh I just love those little Corys too. I have 6 in my Guppy tank. I have 2 Julii, 2 Albino and just recently I bought 2 Panda. They are so much fun to watch. Just like little vacuum cleaners for the bottom of the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3471 From: paul helms Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Starting Right With Aquariums, Part II
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    who are you.....


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Steve Szabo <stevesz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > In my message last week, I urged you to read, read,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > read. Collect as much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > information as you can before getting and setting up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a tank. Once you have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > done that, and gotten an idea of your water quality
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > out of the tap, you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > probably have a pretty good idea of the type(s) of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish you would like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > get. Now let's look at a tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > We are going to want to get the largest sized tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > we can get, to fit in an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > area that you would like to have the tank set up in.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > The reason for getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a large tank, especially if this is your first tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is not to get you to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > spend a lot of money. It is to save you money in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > long run, and help you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > be successful right from the get go in your new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hobby. Also, and an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > important also, is that the more water you have, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > longer it takes for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > something to go wrong with the water quality, thus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > giving you more time to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > diagnose and fix the problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If you have 48" of linear space that you can fill,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > you should be thinking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > along the lines of a 50 gallon or larger, depending
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on the depth of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > space. Most tanks from 50 to 100 or so gallons will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > need about 18" of depth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to your space, that is from the wall to the front of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the tank. This includes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the width of the tank, plus space behind for cables,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tubing, and hang off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the back filters. If you have more depth available,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > you can go a bit wider
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on the tank and get a larger volume of water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > You will also need to consider something on which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the tank can rest. While
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > you may be tempted to use a piece of already
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > existing furniture as a stand,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > please don't do that. It is not built to take the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > weight of a tank full of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > water. A rough estimate of the weight of a tank can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > be 10 pounds per gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > The water itself weighs a bit over 8.4 lbs/gallon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the rest is the weight of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the tank itself and everything that will go in and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on the tank. As I said,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the 10 lbs./gallon is a rough estimate. Add more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > substrate than normal--and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > you have more weight. Add more rocks, again more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > weight. A going aquarium is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a HEAVY object. Make sure that your floor can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > support the weight as well as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > your stand. Most homes, of average construction can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > support quite large
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tanks. I lived, for some time, on the second floor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of an old farmhouse, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I had over 300 gallons of water in the living room
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > without any problems.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Once you have decided what you'd like for a tank, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is time to go shopping.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I am fortunate that I live in an area where there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are several well stocked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > shops within a few hours drive, from which I can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > get, out of stock, nearly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > any size tank I'd like up to about 360 or 400
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gallons. (Getting it home may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > be an entirely different story, however <g>). You
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > may not be so fortunate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > You may be rather limited in your actual choices,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > though most any place
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > would be willing to special order a size they do not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have in stock, though
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it may take a week or two for it to arrive.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Many of the larger tanks are now made with tempered
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > glass, though some still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > come in the thicker and heavy plate glass. The other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank material you are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > likely to see is acrylic. I'm not going to get into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a debate about which is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > better and why. All have good points to recommend
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them, and bad points that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > may steer you away form them. Talk with your dealer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and find what he has to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > say. He is the one who would like to have your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > business today, and again in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the future. He will steer you in the direction he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > feels is best for you and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > himself. After all, he will have to put up with you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > after the purchase as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Once you have found a style and size you like,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > you'll need to pick a stand.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Again, there are a number of styles and basically
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > two materials to chose
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > from--wood and wrought iron. Make your choice.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Either material is good.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Next will be the tank cover. You can get a cover of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > glass or plastic, or a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hood that also contains lighting apparatus.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Personally, I'd go for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > separate light and cover, as then I can add or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > subtract light strips as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > needed for the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > To finish off, you'll need your substrate, heaters,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and filters. These I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > cover next time around. You can probably feel your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > wallet getting quite thin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > already. Then it will be time to load the semi
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > trailer you brought to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > store and drive on home <g>.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > As always, your questions and comments are welcome.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3472 From: paul helms Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i would not always go by what the pet store says. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have gotten a lot of new customers because they have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    found out that walmart, in the bay arae of ca, has no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    clue as to what their signs should say. they have red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bellied pacus listed as "peaceful community fish that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    grow to 6 inches". just because somethingis a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    community fish does not mean that it is not also
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    classified as semi agressive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Kevin Teague <hoosierinfl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish. My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > he's aggressive as can be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 17:59:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Honestly, for the most part there are only a few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gourami's or more specifically fish in the family
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Anabantidae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (those fish having a Labyrinth Organ) which are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aggressive if not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > *crowded*.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > The main species which are naturally agressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are found in the pet trade are the following:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Latin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Comments
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Kissing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Helostoma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > teminicki
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Usually only aggressive towards each other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Combtail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Belontia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Signata
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Very aggressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > True Giant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Gourami Osphronemus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > goramy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Due only to size (upto 30 inches)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Siamese Fighting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Fish Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Splendens usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > males only fight but they also pick on smaller fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > African Bush Fish, Just stay away from all of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > these, they are specific feeders, hard to keep, have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sharp teeth, and are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > for the less than very experienced fishkeeper.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > *Practically all fish will exhibit agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > behainvior if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > crowded*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3473 From: paul helms Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they are more likely to suck in because goldfish are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    agressive eaters. i would not worry about the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    airbubbles, but would suggest adding flake food to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tank from a glass with tank water in it. this will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cause it to sink faster, and being goldfish they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    find it just fine


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Tina <sgtbarnes86@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have 2 fantail goldfish and 1 sunbumpkin? I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that's what he'scalled. He has black,orange and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > silver spots and he looks like afantail.Anyway, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > all find it fascinating to go to the top of thetank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and try to get the air bubbles from my airstone. Can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > this be aproblem for them? I worry that they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > start sucking in air. Isthere anything I can do to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > prevent this? Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3474 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: sick angelfish Melafix
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi Sherrie,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Melafix is a nice product and i use it. Its a tea tree
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    oil and will not harm the fishes nor the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    parameters..!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sherrie i am a member of a group dedicated only to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    angelfish which is as follows.,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.awforum.net/angelfish/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You could check out the sypmtoms and specific remedies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- freedombell2002 <Kpribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I went to my LFS last night and this is what I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > found, "Melafix" has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > anyone used this before? I treated the tank last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > night. Today
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > everything seems okay. The cat fish are a bit more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > active but other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > then that everyone else seems to be acting the same.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > It did make my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > water a bit foamy but didn't dis color the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'll let ya know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > how it works for the angelfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Here is the website for this product
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/aqfish.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > "freedombell2002" <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Hi all I have a pair of marble angelfish, I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > had them for about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > 6months Last night when feeding I noticed that one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of them had, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > guess you could say "lesions" (so hard to explain)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > It has 3 small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > holes, and I do mean holes you can see right thur
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > right above the ventral fin. And when I said
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > lesions it seem to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have a raised spot on one side of his body. A bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > white but more just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > raised. Its acting fine and eating fine. His fins
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have a bit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > of "tatterness" but not clamped. I would be very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sad to lose my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > angel but even more if is it going to spend thur
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank. Does anyone
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > know what this could be? ( I know it's hard to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tell without seeing)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Is there anything I could treat the fish and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank so "whatever"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > it is, it won't spread. Or secondary infection
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > from these lesions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > and holes. If its sores on the fish wouldn't this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > bacterial infection? trying to work this out in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > head. Thanks for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > anyones help
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    =====




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3475 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree with paul, u are definitely feeding way too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    much.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Two feedings a day is more than sufficient. In fact
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    feed them only so much which they can finish off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    within 2 - 3 minutes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I starve my fishes once a week and treat them the next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    day with frozen blood worms. And clean the tank the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    same day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Starving fishes once a week is also a good practise so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that they will keep ur tank clean by searching for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    uneaten food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have read that fishes can survive w/o food upto 7
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    days w/o any problem...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just thought of sharing this with u guys.. Hope this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    helps...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gourami do much better in pairs. they can range
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pansies, to passive, to agressive. just depends on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the specific fish that you ended up with. i would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > recomend getting a partner for it. and cut back on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > feeding, you are going to pollute you tank that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fuly cycled. even if they eat all of the food, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are prodcuing a lot more excrement than they need to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- freedombell2002 <Kpribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > hi Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Welcome to the group!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Sounds like a Gourami to me. LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I had my brother's Gourami for a while his name is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > "Killer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > he NOW lives in a 5 gallon tank all by his self
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > that tells you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > anything) He can't play nice with the other fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > even his own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > He rams their side till he kills them. But he is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > pretty fish, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > just has to live alone.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <hoosierinfl@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I've been lurking since I joined the group and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > have gained alot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > knowledge in that time. I'm having what I think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > is a problem, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > wanted to see what all of you thought.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I setup my very first tank a month ago. It's a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > fish in it right now. I have a powder blue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > gourami, a long-finned
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > minor, a lamp eye tetra, and a Mickey Mouse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > platy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Everything had been going very well until
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > recently. The gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > didn't eat any food for the first week. All he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > did was hide. After
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the first week, he snapped out of it and swam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > around normally and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > ate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > normally. Now, however, he acts as if he's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > starving 24/7 and does
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > absolutely nothing other than look for uneaten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > food on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > the tank. His only other activity is chasing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > whenever
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > they come within his sight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I've been feeding them three times a day, yet he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > never stops looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > for food. The other fish have become skittish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > swim away from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > if he even remotely comes near them. So, his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > two activities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > searching for food and bothering the other fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > All this doesn't seem normal to me, but as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > beginner, maybe I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > wrong. I would appreciate any suggestions you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > could give me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3476 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/11/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Make sure u keep them in the water from the tank they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    were in. Also it would be better to keep the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    running in this tub of yours...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Light is not that much a priority unless u want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    save the plants which needs heavy lighting.....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    All this if ur tank leaks......*wink*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- agentscullyeyore@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > so realistly how long could they live in the tub or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the rubbermaid tubs...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and what about the light or is that not a priority
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > at the moment.. shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > gosh what happens if you get a leak.. you take it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > back but what do you do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with the fish... like put them in the bath tub..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Cry, a lot. Then put them in a bath tub. :) They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have big Rubbermaid tubs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > at the store, about 20-30 gallons, that you can keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > them and their water in,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with an air pump.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3477 From: paul helms Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sunyiscorrect,it is a good practice to skip feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    one day a week. they will not starve, and they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    clean up after themselves. many stores skip feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    twice a week to keep the fish active.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I agree with paul, u are definitely feeding way too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > much.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Two feedings a day is more than sufficient. In fact
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > feed them only so much which they can finish off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > within 2 - 3 minutes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I starve my fishes once a week and treat them the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > day with frozen blood worms. And clean the tank the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > same day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Starving fishes once a week is also a good practise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that they will keep ur tank clean by searching for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > uneaten food.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have read that fishes can survive w/o food upto 7
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > days w/o any problem...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Just thought of sharing this with u guys.. Hope this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > helps...SuNnY !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > gourami do much better in pairs. they can range
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > pansies, to passive, to agressive. just depends
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the specific fish that you ended up with. i would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > recomend getting a partner for it. and cut back
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > feeding, you are going to pollute you tank that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > fuly cycled. even if they eat all of the food,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > are prodcuing a lot more excrement than they need
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- freedombell2002 <Kpribble@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > hi Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Welcome to the group!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sounds like a Gourami to me. LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > I had my brother's Gourami for a while his name
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > "Killer"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > he NOW lives in a 5 gallon tank all by his self
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > (if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > that tells you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > anything) He can't play nice with the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > even his own kind.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > He rams their side till he kills them. But he is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > pretty fish, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > just has to live alone.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > <hoosierinfl@g...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I've been lurking since I joined the group and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > have gained alot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > knowledge in that time. I'm having what I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > is a problem, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > wanted to see what all of you thought.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I setup my very first tank a month ago. It's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > gallon tank with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > fish in it right now. I have a powder blue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > gourami, a long-finned
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > minor, a lamp eye tetra, and a Mickey Mouse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > platy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Everything had been going very well until
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > recently. The gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > didn't eat any food for the first week. All
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > did was hide. After
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > the first week, he snapped out of it and swam
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > around normally and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > ate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > normally. Now, however, he acts as if he's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > starving 24/7 and does
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > absolutely nothing other than look for uneaten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > food on the bottom of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > the tank. His only other activity is chasing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > whenever
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > they come within his sight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > I've been feeding them three times a day, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > never stops looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > for food. The other fish have become skittish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > swim away from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > him
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > if he even remotely comes near them. So, his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > only
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > two activities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > searching for food and bothering the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > All this doesn't seem normal to me, but as a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > beginner, maybe I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > wrong. I would appreciate any suggestions you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > could give me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > > If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > =====
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3478 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Lol patrick, And I also have the other way round. The most aggressive fish that I have are platies and swordtails apart from the horas loach. They are more aggressive then RTB Sharks as well. They don’t leave any opportunity to harass any living thing in the tank starting from larger fish to smaller ones to plants and even the snails. My fleet of 8 apple snails had been suffering coz of the platy fry which are now in a breeding trap… These fry are the most aggressive of the lot.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Patrick [mailto:americanfishguy@hotmail.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: 12 July 2004 05:08
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Funny you should say that.  We have very opposite fish.  My gouramis are aggressive, mollies and swordtails peaceful.  Your gouramis are peaceful, and platys are aggressive.  :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Nitrogen Cycle:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3479 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: what happens with a leaking tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > gosh what happens if you get a leak.. you take it back but what do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > with the fish... like put them in the bath tub.. shannon

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Cry, a lot. Then put them in a bath tub. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      only make sure you don't get bitten when you have a bath yourself!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      :D
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3480 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Lol patrick, And I also have the other way round. The most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      aggressive fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > that I have are platies and swordtails apart from the horas loach.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      They are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > more aggressive then RTB Sharks as well. They don't leave any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      opportunity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > harass any living thing in the tank starting from larger fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ones to plants and even the snails. My fleet of 8 apple snails had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > suffering coz of the platy fry which are now in a breeding trap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      These fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > are the most aggressive of the lot.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Strange - I've never seen any aggression at all in my Platies! Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      at feeding time they're polite!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3481 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is this a good idea for a community tank as well as just gourami's?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sunyiscorrect,it is a good practice to skip feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > one day a week. they will not starve, and they will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > clean up after themselves. many stores skip feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > twice a week to keep the fish active.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3482 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Starting Right With Aquariums, Part II
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > who are you.....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You must not have read Part I.



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3483 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That is unusual, But the platys are overlooked since they have been seen as docile. But then again, like I have professed the books are for "Suggestions" NOT for absolute instruction..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So you don't get any fin eaters?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As for blues , they do get bossy at times, but usually with themselves and from time to time with other gourami males. I must admit that nothing is given, the rules change but I sometimes generalize. That's my own admitable fault. So what I state is general behavior and does change...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But the dwarfs really has me wondering, (but I don't or won't argue with a fishkeepers personal observations, they see what is presented, not me).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        We must remember that the main contributing factor to all fishkeeping, or biology is environment.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        A cause of most aggression is not the *temperament* of the fish in question as much as the fact that the tank has very little boundaries such as caves, rocky areas, thick plants or other areas that a fish can claim as their territory even if small. All they want is what we want a place of our own. But if you have very little "Cover" and several males then there is going to be problems even across species. All the males want that territory. So by simply adding more rocks in a fashion as to add more places to hide lessens the chances of competing males engaging in pugilistic behavior.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        *note the pupil of the eye in the fish, round pupils "Usually" indicated a docile or schooling fish, a pupil with is pointed towards the front gives the fish better binocular vision and is an indicator of an ambush predator*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Of course as stated earlier , your observations are what really matter not what I read.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mark J. Bethke PhD in Nothing-ology
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 5:08 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Funny you should say that.  We have very opposite fish.  My gouramis are aggressive, mollies and swordtails peaceful.  Your gouramis are peaceful, and platys are aggressive.  :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3484 From: paul helms Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        absolutely

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Is this a good idea for a community tank as well as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > just gourami's?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > sunyiscorrect,it is a good practice to skip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > one day a week. they will not starve, and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > clean up after themselves. many stores skip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > twice a week to keep the fish active.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3485 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Very Good Steve,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Good to know you too have been following the parent species.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Just enforces one of my little laws, what is written doesn't always apply, books are guidelines simply that..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So just for sake of clearity is the tank in question well planted, many places for the males to claim as territories?? BTW, Females exhibit aggressive behavior too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Reason I ask was is simply that this is an overlooked situation evident in my last post..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well maybe we can exchange some notes, I don't run into many fishkeepers who were around when the parent species could be had.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 5:54 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No, breeding does not have anything to do with it. I had observed this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        behavior more than 30 years ago when I had several tanks that had dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        gouramis among the inhabitants of these tanks, and in every case, they were,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the more or less, benevolent dictators of the tank. What they said went, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        if you obeyed, you were left alone, but you were tortured otherwise <g>.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This was prior to the first varieties being developed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Even then, if you were not paying attention to the goings on in that tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        you may have been fooled into believing that they were, indeed, timid and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        retiring fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:45 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Fascinating, I have yet to encounter this behavior , Seems that maybe there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        is a new chapter to be written on these guys, could it be through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        unregulated breeding pracitices a normally timid species has taken on an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        agressive disposition ?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Reason for my persistence with this behavior is based on years of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        observation, of course like any "Casual researcher"  I must obey rules
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        governing and accept that there are times when fish do exhibit abnormal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tendencies. We must then examine the reasons behind this to determine the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        unusual behavior. So if it's within your abilities of record to share maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        a solution is at hand , or at least at reason.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        With all respect,,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mbethke@...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: Steve Szabo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I beg to differ on you with your statement below that "As for temperament,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation." It simply ain't true. Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        though most of the popular literature persists in stating that dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        gouramis are timid fish, when they are properly kept, with conditions to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        their liking, they are as aggressive as any in the gourami "family" that are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        kept in the hobby. It is only when they are out of their element that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        become the timid, non-aggressors, as stated in the popular literature.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Unfortunately, that is how many are kept and the myth is perpetuated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3486 From: red-eye Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I also use an UFG in a 60 gallon  in conjunction with a fine grit sand as substrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The tank is heavely planted & light with a JBJ high outpt fixture. The only time I move plants is to replant them elsewhere. Works for me as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Some people trim the roots to make the plant grow bushier.  I have found that it causes terrible cloudiness and probably increase in bad chemicals when the plant is pulled from the gravel.  It is also a major mistake to ever pull a plant up if you use Jobe's plant stick fertilizer (I've never used them, but those who do tell me that they get an algae bloom if they are removed from the gravel because they dissolve into the water).  I prefer to leave my rooted plants where they are to risking algae blooms or dead fish from sudden rises in nitrates.  I would, therefore, never suggest a ugf in a planted aquarium.  But, I want to give Paul credit.  He says it works for him, and in all those tanks he has set up, so it must work for him.  And in this hobby, the important thing to learn is that some things work better for some people than others.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Can't say I have ever heard of trimming the roots before.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3487 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Digest Number 296
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My Powder Blue male Dwarf Gourami is "aggressive" also. The only fish I have ever NOT have him harass in my tank is the otocinclus cat that I originally bought him with (they were in the same tank in PetSMart). I bought him three females to choose from; two are now dead, one possibly killed by him, and one possibly egg bound (he had embraced with her several times but she never spawned). He constantly chased the remaining female, to the point where she was hiding all the time and didn't dare to come out to eat, so I moved my five White Clouds in with them; now he chases the white clouds half the time and the female the other half. He has apparently decided that his "nest" consists of the entire 10 gallon tank, and he moves his mass of riccia and bubbles around from time to time and guards it actively, even though there have never been eggs in it for the six weeks it has been constructed. It is instinct for the males to guard the nest. If you want a "community tank" fish, get a female... if you can find one. They are a pretty silver color with faint orange stripes, and they are very peaceful. Audrey

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Message: 23
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:58:39 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Steve Szabo" <stevesz@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I beg to differ on you with your statement below that "As for temperament,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and non-aggressive if not a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation." It simply ain't true. Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        though most of the popular literature persists in stating that dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        gouramis are timid fish, when they are properly kept, with conditions to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        their liking, they are as aggressive as any in the gourami "family" that are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        kept in the hobby. It is only when they are out of their element that they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        become the timid, non-aggressors, as stated in the popular literature.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Unfortunately, that is how many are kept and the myth is perpetuated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 9:13 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What do you propose is the cause of this placid fishes mental instability?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Other than a powderblue is a genetic weak-link created by inbreeding of an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        already delicate species, Colisa lalia .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The parent species is very difficult to keep for any length of time though
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        there are those who have been successful but for the most part they last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        about 5 months to 1 year. Powder Blue or Neon Blue (common names are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        difficult to use for identification as many species share a single name).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As for temperament, the "Dwarf Gourami" is well know for being timid and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        non-aggressive if not a real "Chicken" when it comes to confrontation. Why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        your fish is aggressive might have one ask what are your other tank mates?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The gourami's we find in the fish trade are rather easy to deal with , they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        are not complicated species, not like we are dealing with Trinaca (giant)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        salt water Clams being force feed with a turkey baster....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: Kevin Teague
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The pet store (Petsmart) listed the Power Blue Gourami as a community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish. My tank is not overcrowded with only 4 fish in the tank, yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        he's aggressive as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3488 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Water changes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        By reading you become learned but by deed you become wise...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also thought UGFs for planted tanks were a no-no but setting up and maintaining a planted tanks has so many successful variations and permutations that it can be said that it is as much art as it is science...there are a few hard facts but who can argue with success? :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        red-eye <r_ohle@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I also use an UFG in a 60 gallon  in conjunction with a fine grit sand as substrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The tank is heavely planted & light with a JBJ high outpt fixture. The only time I move plants is to replant them elsewhere. Works for me as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Some people trim the roots to make the plant grow bushier.  I have found that it causes terrible cloudiness and probably increase in bad chemicals when the plant is pulled from the gravel.  It is also a major mistake to ever pull a plant up if you use Jobe's plant stick fertilizer (I've never used them, but those who do tell me that they get an algae bloom if they are removed from the gravel because they dissolve into the water).  I prefer to leave my rooted plants where they are to risking algae blooms or dead fish from sudden rises in nitrates.  I would, therefore, never suggest a ugf in a planted aquarium.  But, I want to give Paul credit.  He says it works for him, and in all those tanks he has set up, so it must work for him.  And in this hobby, the important thing to learn is that some things work better for some people than others.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Can't say I have ever heard of trimming the roots before.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        red-eye
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3489 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sorry for the late reply. I think it is a Bolivian ram or ruby ram, a close relative of the blue ram. Microgeophagus altispinosa if my guess is correct. Yes, it is a South American dwarf cichlid and allied with the Apistogrammas.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Rod

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Dan & Theresa <dtmergl@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My first thought was a checkerboard but it looks like it could be some sort
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        of apistogramma, it's hard to tell with that pic.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Theresa

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "questnjurny" <questnjurny@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Here is my unidentified little fish that I got this week.  Anyone have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/jurnynquest/unknownfish.html




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Groups Links


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3490 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well whether you want to beleive this or not Aquarium Fish Magazine also ran an article on platys and mollies being "Fin Munchers" so maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Magazine is wrong or maybe you all have mild mannered platys . Either way, I don't trust them....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        MJB
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 1:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Lol patrick, And I also have the other way round. The most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        aggressive fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that I have are platies and swordtails apart from the horas loach.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        They are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > more aggressive then RTB Sharks as well. They don't leave any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        opportunity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > harass any living thing in the tank starting from larger fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ones to plants and even the snails. My fleet of 8 apple snails had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > suffering coz of the platy fry which are now in a breeding trap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        These fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > are the most aggressive of the lot.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Strange - I've never seen any aggression at all in my Platies!  Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        at feeding time they're polite!




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3491 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        While I'm not using live plants, the tank has several fake plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        a big roman coliseum decoration for them to hide around.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The platy I have is very docile and has always kept to his own business.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:50:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well whether you want to beleive this or not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Aquarium Fish Magazine also ran an article on platys and mollies being "Fin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Munchers" so maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Magazine is wrong or maybe you all have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        mild mannered platys . Either way, I don't trust them....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        MJB





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        daniel_roachus

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 1:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Gourami problem/people problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Lol patrick, And I also have the other way round. The most

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        aggressive fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that I have are platies and swordtails apart from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the horas loach.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        They are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > more aggressive then RTB Sharks as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        They don't leave any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        opportunity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > harass any living thing in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank starting from larger fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ones to plants and even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the snails. My fleet of 8 apple snails had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > suffering coz of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the platy fry which are now in a breeding trap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        These fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        most aggressive of the lot.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Strange - I've never seen any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        aggression at all in my Platies! Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        at feeding time they're
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        polite!































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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3492 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: red tailed shark extinct in the Wild

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.redlist.org/search/details.php?species=7807

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Very sad but happy the species lives in the trade. After all this is an example of the benefits of the trade.. similar with the Lake Victoria cichlids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So take good care of the ones you have in the tanks, as they will now always live in one.. though it’s a decade old thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3493 From: Patrick Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, I wouldn't call the dwarfs I had aggressive, and I too have heard that they are quite peaceful.  I wouldn't have tried them if I feared they would eat the other fish.  The paradise fish, as far as I know, has never killed another fish.  I did see him try to eat a neon, and I did see it bite a mouth-sized slot into the female betta's tail fin.  The books say they will eat other fish, but mine seems happy to look at them really hard wishing he was mean enough to eat them. :)  Those blues I had, though, were both aggressive to each other, and were females as far as I could tell by their fins not being pointed.  I will never keep a blue again, but I like the paradise anyway. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The real tail nippers in my tank are the black skirts.  Just saw one go after the other.  :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3494 From: Patrick Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: red tailed shark extinct in the Wild
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't understand why they can live in the trade through outside breeding, but can't just be reintroduced through the same breeding setups (using local water without disease contamination, of course).  Surely if breeders can keep them in the trade, they could un-extinct them. :) 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.redlist.org/search/details.php?species=7807

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Very sad but happy the species lives in the trade. After all this is an example of the benefits of the trade.. similar with the Lake Victoria cichlids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So take good care of the ones you have in the tanks, as they will now always live in one.. though it’s a decade old thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3495 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Has everyone been behaving?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well, I'm back and it time to check these digests. Hope everybodies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            been well, Rob. (7 days does not a vacation make, shortest week of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            year)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3496 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well I must say that my first tank (ok we are going back, awww,,,,,, 33 yrs),,,, Had some of the same. I had a friend who did prototyping and gave me swapable molds for minature roman colunms. I had several but at that age I didn't know that simple varnish wouldn't keep the plaster from saturating with water and they crumbled , sort of like old rome it's self...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyways, why didn't you go with real plants, just wondering. Many are not that difficult to keep . There are many fishkeepers who think of plants as they used to think of the Discus, out of reach. But they are not that difficult. Forget all you have read about CO2 injection, all these exotic substrates and constnt attention. Aquatic plants are much like house plants , they get killed with too much attention.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There is basically only a few factor to keep in mind, good light, decent nutriants (supplied by fish waste is perfect) and some coral sand (forget the carbonate arguement, plants absorb tons of carbon) in the substrate to promoate good root growth. Most plants die from root loss do to decay since they have nothing to dangle their toes in .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AND ONE MAJOR NOTE ON PLANTS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Never, ever use plant fertilizer spikes or stakes, they are for house plants and some FOOLS sell them for the aquarium, they were never ment to be submerged and if you use them your nitrates will shoot thru the roof and the tank will become one huge algae bloom.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            PLEASE NOTE THIS    Just because it's sold as safe for aquariums or exclusivly for aquariums doesn't mean ANYTHING, a fool with ten pounds of asprin, 100 bottles and a simple set of labels can claim anything they want as long as it say clearly "Not for human consumption" gives carte blanc to sell snake oil buy the gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            While I'm not using live plants, the tank has several fake plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            a big roman coliseum decoration for them to hide around.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The platy I have is very docile and has always kept to his own business.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:50:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well whether you want to beleive this or not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Aquarium Fish Magazine also ran an article on platys and mollies being "Fin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Munchers" so maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Magazine is wrong or maybe you all have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            mild mannered platys . Either way, I don't trust them....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            MJB




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              daniel_roachus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 1:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mathur" <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Lol patrick, And I also have the other way round. The most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            aggressive fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > that I have are platies and swordtails apart from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the horas loach.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            They are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > more aggressive then RTB Sharks as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They don't leave any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            opportunity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > harass any living thing in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank starting from larger fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > ones to plants and even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the snails. My fleet of 8 apple snails had
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > suffering coz of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the platy fry which are now in a breeding trap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            These fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              most aggressive of the lot.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Strange - I've never seen any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              aggression at all in my Platies!  Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            at feeding time they're
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              polite!




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             








                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
















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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3497 From: Tina Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:> they are more likely to suck in because goldfish are> agressive eaters. i would not worry about the> airbubbles, but would suggest adding flake food to the> tank from a glass with tank water in it. this will> cause it to sink faster, and being goldfish they will> find it just fine.> > > > > > Thanks Paul, I'll try that. Tina> > > __________________________________> Do you Yahoo!?> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3498 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: New cory cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yeah i realize there schooling fish and plan on adding 1 more to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            make three, after my tank adjust to the two new ones. i only have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            10 gallon that has 12 endlers (not yet adults). i am cycling a 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            gallon but plan on that being an endler tank, so with the babies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            they have i won't have enough space to have 10-12 cory's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Cories are schooling fish, a group of at least 5 or 6 of one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            species is best for the fish to be happiest.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3499 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just wanted to ask anyone who knows, is the fishtank water bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cats. with the nitrites? and since i just added 2 fish the ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            spike? i can't ever seem to keep my cats of my tank, there always
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            drinking from the part where the water comes out of the filter. i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hate for them to get sick. any info please. thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3500 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well the ammonia spike is strange unless you are cycling a tank, but the question put before us was about Cats drinking from your tank. Well unless you are using some sort of treatment for fungus or other medication it's fine. Cats actually can tolerate high saline levels in their drinking water and also drink from what we would ran away from screaming. They have a stomach that can handle carrion (dead animals) as they are omnivores/scavengers. I would worry more about their "Fishing skills" if they show no intrest in catching the fish there wouldn't be much problem at all. BTW, as they are inside cats my hats off to you for being a responsible Cat owners and not letting them wonder about.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:08 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cats & fishtank water

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just wanted to ask anyone who knows, is the fishtank water bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            cats. with the nitrites? and since i just added 2 fish the ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            spike? i can't ever seem to keep my cats of my tank, there always
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            drinking from the part where the water comes out of the filter. i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hate for them to get sick. any info please. thanks



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3501 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Do you have a decoder ring to go with this message? Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Airstone problem?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:> they are more likely to suck in because goldfish are> agressive eaters.  i would not worry about the> airbubbles, but would suggest adding flake food to the> tank from a glass with tank water in it.  this will> cause it to sink faster, and being goldfish they will> find it just fine.> > > > > > Thanks Paul, I'll try that. Tina> >               > __________________________________> Do you Yahoo!?> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3502 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well I'm glad to see that there are a few that seem "Normal" .. As for the blues , two males will fight (not like humans, oh, bad example) .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I like you're keeping the Paradise, they are such neat fish, can tolerate conditions that would kill most.  I'd like to know, is he a full finned with solid bars of color on his flanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just a little survey.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'll keep your message in my files, When my fry are ready to be placed and sold I'll see if you would like five (2M 3F) "Gratis" , their parents are wild caught,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              imported from northern Thailand.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              We have had three bubble nests , and now have about 15 fry per qt of pond water. Alls doing well even with two opposum attacks (only the water lillies and lotus suffered) but the fry and parents and doing great,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mbethke@socal.rr.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 10:35 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, I wouldn't call the dwarfs I had aggressive, and I too have heard that they are quite peaceful.  I wouldn't have tried them if I feared they would eat the other fish.  The paradise fish, as far as I know, has never killed another fish.  I did see him try to eat a neon, and I did see it bite a mouth-sized slot into the female betta's tail fin.  The books say they will eat other fish, but mine seems happy to look at them really hard wishing he was mean enough to eat them. :)  Those blues I had, though, were both aggressive to each other, and were females as far as I could tell by their fins not being pointed.  I will never keep a blue again, but I like the paradise anyway. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The real tail nippers in my tank are the black skirts.  Just saw one go after the other.  :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3503 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Gourami problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              For any fishes anywhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes for community tank also...its better to skip a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              days feeding..SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- cynthia brennemann <brennewoman@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Is this a good idea for a community tank as well as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > just gourami's?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > sunyiscorrect,it is a good practice to skip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > one day a week. they will not starve, and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > clean up after themselves. many stores skip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > twice a week to keep the fish active.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              =====




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3504 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Starting Right With Aquariums, Part II
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As Todd stated, you must not have read part one last week. Look in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              archives. It was posted 7/3/2004 at about 11:56 PM, msg number 3133.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: paul helms [mailto:wtfmorlok@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 1:38 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Starting Right With
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Aquariums, Part II


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              who are you.....


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Steve Szabo <stevesz@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3505 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/12/2004 12:01:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So if you like long finned fish or passive tetras dump the platys.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              *platy's also includes swordtails and mollies, they are not to be trusted even with themselves


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Poor livebearers get such a bad rap! I've got four platies in my livebearer tank ... three Red Wag and one Mickey Mouse ... all female. They are the most docile of the entire tank, much preferring to hide under the driftwood than to chase the other fish. The other fish are Mollies ... four "Fancy" and one Black Balloon Molly. (one fancy is a male ... sneaky bugger had me convinced for months now that he was female, until I caught him chasing my black balloon molly) Of all of the residents of my tank, ONE of my adult mollie females is the resident "bully". She is the one that chases the others, especially at feeding time if there is what she perceives to be a choice morsel of food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think with any breed, you run into troubles when you try to say that ALL fish of a given species have the same personality. (But then, a lot of the people in this group are already aware of my pro-livebearer tendencies.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So there is no idea why the Gourami mentioned at the start of this thread is acting the way that it does. I think that one of the better practices when looking at fish for your aquarium, is to spend some time watching them in the tanks at the LFS ... if you see one that chases the others around and nips at them, you can bet that that particular fish might be a bit of a bully. That doesn't mean that ALL fish of that species are bullies. You just can't predict how fish will act when you put them together.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3506 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i know my friends cats used to drink out of hers and they were fine... i put all my fish water on my plants.. they grow a lot.. it is great.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3507 From: Kevin Teague Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I didn't go with real plants because this is my very first tank and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              wanted to start off doing things the easiest way possible. I wanted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to see if I would actually like the hobby after diving into it. Once
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I get the hang of things and actually see my tank cycle successfully,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I may try the more advanced things. For now, I just want to learn and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              get this tank cycled.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 23:44:19 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well I must say that my first tank (ok we are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              going back, awww,,,,,, 33 yrs),,,, Had some of the same. I had a friend who did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              prototyping and gave me swapable molds for minature roman colunms. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              had several
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but at that age I didn't know that simple varnish wouldn't keep the plaster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              from saturating with water and they crumbled , sort of like old rome it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              self...



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyways, why didn't you go with real plants, just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              wondering. Many are not that difficult to keep . There are many fishkeepers who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              think of plants as they used to think of the Discus, out of reach. But they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              not that difficult. Forget all you have read about CO2 injection, all these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              exotic substrates and constnt attention. Aquatic plants are much like house
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              plants , they get killed with too much attention.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There is basically only a few factor to keep in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mind, good light, decent nutriants (supplied by fish waste is perfect) and some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              coral sand (forget the carbonate arguement, plants absorb tons of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              carbon) in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              substrate to promoate good root growth. Most plants die from root loss do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to decay since they have nothing to dangle their toes in .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AND ONE MAJOR NOTE ON
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              PLANTS<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Never, ever use plant fertilizer spikes or stakes,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they are for house plants and some FOOLS sell them for the aquarium, they were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              never ment to be submerged and if you use them your nitrates will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              shoot thru the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              roof and the tank will become one huge algae bloom.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              PLEASE NOTE THIS Just because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it's sold as safe for aquariums or exclusivly for aquariums doesn't mean
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ANYTHING, a fool with ten pounds of asprin, 100 bottles and a simple set of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              labels can claim anything they want as long as it say clearly "Not for human
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              consumption" gives carte blanc to sell snake oil buy the gallon





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mark





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Teague

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:09 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Gourami problem/people problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              While I'm not using live plants, the tank has several fake
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              plants, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              a big roman coliseum decoration for them to hide
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              around.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The platy I have is very docile and has always kept to his own
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              business.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kevin


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: Mon,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              12 Jul 2004 20:50:09 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Gourami
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              freshwatertropicalfishaquarium@yahoogroups.com











                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              whether you want to beleive this or not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Aquarium Fish Magazine also ran an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              article on platys and mollies being "Fin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Munchers" so maybe I'm wrong,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              maybe the Magazine is wrong or maybe you all have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mild mannered platys .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Either way, I don't trust them....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              MJB






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              daniel_roachus

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Monday, July 12, 2004 1:24 PM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mathur"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <nimmat4@y...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Lol patrick, And I also have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the other way round. The most

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              aggressive fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              have are platies and swordtails apart from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the horas loach.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > more aggressive then RTB Sharks as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              don't leave any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              opportunity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > harass any living thing in the

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank starting from larger fish to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ones to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              plants and even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the snails. My fleet of 8 apple snails had

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > suffering coz of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the platy fry which are now in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              breeding trap.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              These fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              most aggressive of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              lot.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Strange - I've never seen any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              aggression at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              all in my Platies! Even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              at feeding time they're

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              polite!


































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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If ignorance is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              bliss, why aren't more people
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kevin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----------------------------------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3508 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              One thing I've noticed is that fish seem to do very little reading of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              literature on them. They tend to behave the way they want to.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, each of the tanks was, shall we say, well decorated. Not all were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              planted, but there were definite areas that the fish could stake out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              territories. I do remember, in particular, a 5 1/2 gallon tank that was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              heavily planted with a clear area front and center for swimming and display.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Along with a pair of dwarfs were several zebra, and a few mid water species,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              whose name escapes me right now, along with a couple of small cories. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              dwarfs even bred in that set up, several times, but the fry never made it to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the point where I could remove them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              For those who were talking about this in another thread, the filter was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              UGF, with a fairly slow flow rate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Water changes of 10% were done weekly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The dwarf gouramis owned this tank, no questions asked.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Other tanks were given to similar experiences, although the dwarfs were not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              always the ultimate rulers, they would sure put on a good show of it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sometimes taking on larger fish than they.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 12:20 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Very Good Steve,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Good to know you too have been following the parent species.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just enforces one of my little laws, what is written doesn't always apply,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              books are guidelines simply that..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So just for sake of clearity is the tank in question well planted, many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              places for the males to claim as territories?? BTW, Females exhibit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              aggressive behavior too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Reason I ask was is simply that this is an overlooked situation evident in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my last post..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well maybe we can exchange some notes, I don't run into many fishkeepers who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              were around when the parent species could be had.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3509 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              No harm will come to your cats, at least from ingesting the water. However,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              should they accidentally take a swim, they may be cured of the tank, at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              least for a while. If they should decide to go fishing, there may be an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              unhappy fish or two in the future.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: iloveguppies [mailto:CK147@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 8:09 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cats & fishtank water


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just wanted to ask anyone who knows, is the fishtank water bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cats. with the nitrites? and since i just added 2 fish the ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              spike? i can't ever seem to keep my cats of my tank, there always
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              drinking from the part where the water comes out of the filter. i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hate for them to get sick. any info please. thanks






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3510 From: paul helms Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that message was a reply to a question....if you read
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the question then it will make sense mark. she was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              worried about goldfish getting air in their abdomens.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Do you have a decoder ring to go with this message?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:> they are more likely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to suck in because goldfish are> agressive eaters.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > i would not worry about the> airbubbles, but would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > suggest adding flake food to the> tank from a glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > with tank water in it. this will> cause it to sink
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > faster, and being goldfish they will> find it just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fine.> > > > > > Thanks Paul, I'll try that. Tina> >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3511 From: paul helms Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              won't hurt the cats, tap water has nitrates and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ammonia in it. only thing to worry about would be the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cat introducing bad bacteria to the tank

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- iloveguppies <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Just wanted to ask anyone who knows, is the fishtank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > water bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > cats. with the nitrites? and since i just added 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish the ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > spike? i can't ever seem to keep my cats of my tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > there always
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > drinking from the part where the water comes out of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the filter. i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > hate for them to get sick. any info please. thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3512 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well, i assumed since i just added 2 new fish that it would cause
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              some extra ammonia until the bacteria grows enough to handle the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              extra load. my tank is 2 days short of 6 weeks. nope no medication
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              just chlor out stuff when adding water, since it evaporates alot and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              is drank alot. hehehe They are inside cats but have a tendancy to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              run out the door as i'm trying to get me and my 2 year old out the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              door. but get scared and run back in quickly. i love them. skyla and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              curly and no i haven't seen them try and catch a fish although the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish think it's feeding time and swim at the top looking for food,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              while there drinking. i'll put a picture of them in my folder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              melanie's pics. i know there not fish but they like the fish so they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              should be allowed in there. hehehe j/k


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Well the ammonia spike is strange unless you are cycling a tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              but the question put before us was about Cats drinking from your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank. Well unless you are using some sort of treatment for fungus or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              other medication it's fine. Cats actually can tolerate high saline
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              levels in their drinking water and also drink from what we would ran
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              away from screaming. They have a stomach that can handle carrion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (dead animals) as they are omnivores/scavengers. I would worry more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              about their "Fishing skills" if they show no intrest in catching the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish there wouldn't be much problem at all. BTW, as they are inside
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cats my hats off to you for being a responsible Cat owners and not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              letting them wonder about.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3513 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I killed a cactus, so i'll have to find another use for the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hehehe I thought it would be ok, but my husband asks me everytime
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              there up there, i try and chase them off but they just get back up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              there.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > i know my friends cats used to drink out of hers and they were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fine... i put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > all my fish water on my plants.. they grow a lot.. it is great..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3514 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it's just a 10 gallon so i don't think they could fall in, they just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              stand on the top and drink out of the back where it's open for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              filter. and yeah i would cry if they caught a fish, but they don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              seem to be interested in them. they don't even watch them.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > No harm will come to your cats, at least from ingesting the water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              However,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > should they accidentally take a swim, they may be cured of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank, at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > least for a while. If they should decide to go fishing, there may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              be an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > unhappy fish or two in the future.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3515 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hmm, i never thought about that, since they're in the litter box
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              than clean themselves. i've never seen them put there paws in they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              just lick it.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > won't hurt the cats, tap water has nitrates and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ammonia in it. only thing to worry about would be the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > cat introducing bad bacteria to the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3516 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/12/2004 8:42:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I would worry more about their "Fishing skills" if they show no intrest in catching the fish there wouldn't be much problem at all.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And if your cats don't try to catch your fish from that same gap where the water trickles from the filter, I'd love to know how you manage it. *grin*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have two indoor cats, and while the adult female doesn't bother with the aquarium at all, she just uses it as a stepping stone to her favorite perch, my computer monitor. However, the young male cat is constantly sitting on top of the hood, batting his little paws into the water where the filter trickles into the tank. That's why I keep a "squirt bottle" full of water handy, to startle him away from his little fishing expeditions. He's managed to hook one a glancing blow, just once so far, but I'm not going to let him keep trying and get a snack.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And no, I don't think drinking "fish water" will hurt them ... MY cats will drink out of the toilet if we leave the lid up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3517 From: questnjurny Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              One of my cats always perches on top of the tank and drinks the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water if I leave the top off. The only thing I worry about is the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fact that he is deaf and can startle fairly easy...I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              startle him right into the tank! I do spend a fair bit of time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              picking out cat and dog hair out of the tanks though with five cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and four dogs in the house. Other than that no harm has come to fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              or cat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3518 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              THEY ARE KINDA FAT CATS WHO JUST SIT AROUND SO I DON'T THINK THEY
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              WOULD WANT TO PUT IN THE EFFORT IT TAKES TO CATCH (opps sorry about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the caps) a fish, there small so i think it would be a little hard
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to catch them. luckily there's not enough room for them to lay, it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              got the light which makes no flat surfaces to lay. I think i will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              get a spray bottle though to try and keep them out of it. it must
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              make them feel like there doing something adventuress (i spelt that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              wrong) since they have a bowl of water they won't touch and luckily
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i've never seem them drink out of the toilet.... yet!!!!!!!! hehehe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > I would worry more about their "Fishing skills" if they show no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              intrest in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > catching the fish there wouldn't be much problem at all.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > And if your cats don't try to catch your fish from that same gap
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              where the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > water trickles from the filter, I'd love to know how you manage
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it. *grin*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have two indoor cats, and while the adult female doesn't bother
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > aquarium at all, she just uses it as a stepping stone to her
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              favorite perch, my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > computer monitor. However, the young male cat is constantly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sitting on top of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the hood, batting his little paws into the water where the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              trickles
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > into the tank. That's why I keep a "squirt bottle" full of water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              handy, to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > startle him away from his little fishing expeditions. He's managed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to hook one a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > glancing blow, just once so far, but I'm not going to let him keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              trying and get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > a snack.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > And no, I don't think drinking "fish water" will hurt them ... MY
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cats will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > drink out of the toilet if we leave the lid up.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3519 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: the drama of my cat was.... cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              well my one cat drinks out of my like goldfish type bowl that used to have a betta in it... which was fine but my cat which is drinking gawd awful amounts of water a day was almost leaviing no water for the fish so i put the fish somewhere else and let the cat have the goldfish bowll... know you may think what a dork but this way i can easily monitor how much water she is drinking for i think she has a kidney issue.. and to make this even more sad i have a 60 dollar cat filteration system that runs a waterfall of water into a bowl for my cats.. lol basically it just sits and looks important.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              it's just a 10 gallon so i don't think they could fall in, they just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              stand on the top and drink out of the back where it's open for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              filter. and yeah i would cry if they caught a fish, but they don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              seem to be interested in them. they don't even watch them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3520 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Wow that's alot of animals in the house. we have 4 fish tanks, 10,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              20, 1 and 1/2 and another 10 gallon. 2 cats, 1 frog, 1 newt, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              snakes, and at the moment 1 dog with four puppies in the house. now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              outside is a different story we have one big bassett hound and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              little doggies outside. =:o)


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > One of my cats always perches on top of the tank and drinks the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > water if I leave the top off. The only thing I worry about is the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fact that he is deaf and can startle fairly easy...I don't want to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > startle him right into the tank! I do spend a fair bit of time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > picking out cat and dog hair out of the tanks though with five cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and four dogs in the house. Other than that no harm has come to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > or cat.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3521 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you for the reply Erin,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Of course with all Species there are exceptions , I don't want to backtrack too far as the gourami species I mentioned are bullies , like the "Kissing Gourami" isn't kissing at all , it's engaging in combat. The African Bush fish are notorious which will take over your tank and are the only gouramis that can stand up to cichlids.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That being said, Mollies , swordtails and platys will change sexes when there is a lack of males. This happens mostly in Swordtails .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But generalization is not usually correct but in selecting species should be of consideration but not a final word on the matter. I wouldn't house tetras in the same tank as cichlids, now I'm sure this will light a fire but why, isn't this too generalizations.  I have seen a mouse that would share it's food with a cat , I have seen a dog been chased from a bowl of food by a rabbit . People in the state of California are convinced that ferrets would overpopulate the state if they got loose, yet you can't buy a ferret "Intact" and most pet ferrets die from starvation if they "Get out".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Tonight on a disgusting show called "Fear Factor " the contestants (if that's what you want to call them) will be diving into a tank of piranhas, now the public hears that name and instantly thinks of meat striping, teeth slashing fish, there is only one species that will attack humans , the red bellied , (no I don't want to look them up) but the piranhas used looked like Whipples , not red bellied. but the viewing public doesn't know.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The point being this ,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Two Betta's in a naked bowl of water will rip each other to shreds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Two Betta's in a 50 gl tank thick with plants , rocks, caves and many places to hide will never run into each other and if they do will fight for a short time and each take their ends and that's it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ENVIRONMENT, the most important factor to keeping the peace, Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 3:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/12/2004 12:01:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So if you like long finned fish or passive tetras dump the platys.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              *platy's also includes swordtails and mollies, they are not to be trusted even with themselves


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Poor livebearers get such a bad rap! I've got four platies in my livebearer tank ... three Red Wag and one Mickey Mouse ... all female. They are the most docile of the entire tank, much preferring to hide under the driftwood than to chase the other fish. The other fish are Mollies ... four "Fancy" and one Black Balloon Molly. (one fancy is a male ... sneaky bugger had me convinced for months now that he was female, until I caught him chasing my black balloon molly) Of all of the residents of my tank, ONE of my adult mollie females is the resident "bully". She is the one that chases the others, especially at feeding time if there is what she perceives to be a choice morsel of food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think with any breed, you run into troubles when you try to say that ALL fish of a given species have the same personality. (But then, a lot of the people in this group are already aware of my pro-livebearer tendencies.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So there is no idea why the Gourami mentioned at the start of this thread is acting the way that it does. I think that one of the better practices when looking at fish for your aquarium, is to spend some time watching them in the tanks at the LFS ... if you see one that chases the others around and nips at them, you can bet that that particular fish might be a bit of a bully. That doesn't mean that ALL fish of that species are bullies. You just can't predict how fish will act when you put them together.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3522 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: the drama of my cat was.... cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the fish tank loses alot of water but it's like in the high 90's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              here making the house very hot so i think it evaporates more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they drink it. hmm maybe i should use the old goldfish bowl that we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              used for about a week (bad idea) for our 2 goldfish. but i think
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they like it fresh (like a water fall) sorry to hear they didn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              like the 60 dollar water fall, sounds like something i would buy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hehehe well i hope you cat doesn't have kidney problems. =:O( poor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              kitty


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > well my one cat drinks out of my like goldfish type bowl that used
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > betta in it... which was fine but my cat which is drinking gawd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              awful amounts
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > of water a day was almost leaviing no water for the fish so i put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > somewhere else and let the cat have the goldfish bowll... know you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              may think what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > a dork but this way i can easily monitor how much water she is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              drinking for i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > think she has a kidney issue.. and to make this even more sad i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              have a 60
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > dollar cat filteration system that runs a waterfall of water into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              a bowl for my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > cats.. lol basically it just sits and looks important.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3523 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Steve., sorry you lost the nest, maybe they will nest again. Sounds like you somehow got a robust couple, I'd keep them in their own tank and breed them, God knows the industry could use some strong Dwarfs. I have yet to contront those guys. Congrats at your success. Hoep to see more success in the future. If you want to do some trading keep me in mind. Nice to see other's who are intrested in Gouramis. BTW, it sounds like you got ahold of what I was refering to as parent species.. mayube somehow your LFS brought in some wild Dwarfs, you have any pictures???? If so please send to my addy, thank s,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 3:30 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people problems?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              One thing I've noticed is that fish seem to do very little reading of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              literature on them. They tend to behave the way they want to.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, each of the tanks was, shall we say, well decorated. Not all were
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              planted, but there were definite areas that the fish could stake out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              territories. I do remember, in particular, a 5 1/2 gallon tank that was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              heavily planted with a clear area front and center for swimming and display.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Along with a pair of dwarfs were several zebra, and a few mid water species,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              whose name escapes me right now, along with a couple of small cories. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              dwarfs even bred in that set up, several times, but the fry never made it to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the point where I could remove them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              For those who were talking about this in another thread, the filter was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              UGF, with a fairly slow flow rate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Water changes of 10% were done weekly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The dwarf gouramis owned this tank, no questions asked.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Other tanks were given to similar experiences, although the dwarfs were not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              always the ultimate rulers, they would sure put on a good show of it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sometimes taking on larger fish than they.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 12:20 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Very Good Steve,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Good to know you too have been following the parent species.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just enforces one of my little laws, what is written doesn't always apply,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              books are guidelines simply that..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So just for sake of clearity is the tank in question well planted, many
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              places for the males to claim as territories?? BTW, Females exhibit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              aggressive behavior too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Reason I ask was is simply that this is an overlooked situation evident in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my last post..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well maybe we can exchange some notes, I don't run into many fishkeepers who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              were around when the parent species could be had.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mark



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3524 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just seemed rather strange with the breaks , paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 3:41 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Airstone problem?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that message was a reply to a question....if you read
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the question then it will make sense mark.  she was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              worried about goldfish getting air in their abdomens.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Do you have a decoder ring to go with this message?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   From: Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:> they are more likely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to suck in because goldfish are> agressive eaters.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > i would not worry about the> airbubbles, but would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > suggest adding flake food to the> tank from a glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > with tank water in it.  this will> cause it to sink
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > faster, and being goldfish they will> find it just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fine.> > > > > > Thanks Paul, I'll try that. Tina> >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3525 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  H'lo All'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       What about post-introduction of new fish without quarantine, and cat's drinking that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/12/2004 8:42:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mbethke@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I would worry more about their "Fishing skills" if they show no intrest in catching the fish there wouldn't be much problem at all.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And if your cats don't try to catch your fish from that same gap where the water trickles from the filter, I'd love to know how you manage it. *grin*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have two indoor cats, and while the adult female doesn't bother with the aquarium at all, she just uses it as a stepping stone to her favorite perch, my computer monitor. However, the young male cat is constantly sitting on top of the hood, batting his little paws into the water where the filter trickles into the tank. That's why I keep a "squirt bottle" full of water handy, to startle him away from his little fishing expeditions. He's managed to hook one a glancing blow, just once so far, but I'm not going to let him keep trying and get a snack.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And no, I don't think drinking "fish water" will hurt them ... MY cats will drink out of the toilet if we leave the lid up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3526 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Carly, As Steve said, this is definitely some species of Apistogramma (Dwarf South American Cichlid), and not a Bolivian Ram as the mouth is too low-slung. The pattern is typical Apistogramma, in the fright mode. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3528 From: questnjurny Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for all the replies! I will have to get some new pictures of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              him now that he is settled and not so scared of being in a new tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              He has definitly calmed down and is exploring a little more now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks again everyone!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Carly, As Steve said, this is definitely some species of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Apistogramma (Dwarf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > South American Cichlid), and not a Bolivian Ram as the mouth is too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              low-slung.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > The pattern is typical Apistogramma, in the fright mode. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3529 From: questnjurny Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That isn't including the three fish tanks and fairly large pond in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              yard! Between keeping the tanks and litter boxes clean, dogs trained
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and going to dog shows I don't have much time on my hands! LOL!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Wow that's alot of animals in the house. we have 4 fish tanks, 10,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 20, 1 and 1/2 and another 10 gallon. 2 cats, 1 frog, 1 newt, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > snakes, and at the moment 1 dog with four puppies in the house. now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > outside is a different story we have one big bassett hound and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > little doggies outside. =:o)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3530 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe G., I just came across something on another forum which may help your high pH problem. It seems that crushed (about the size of medium gravel) or several larger pieces of Lave Rock will lower your pH. It is found at flower/greenhouse shops and is use for some orchids. Don't use too much -use it sparingly at first - better too little than too much, than see how it goes. I don't recommend bringing your pH down much below 7.6 or 7.8. It will be a lot easier to make stressless water changes and it still in a comfortable zone. Note: I haven't tried this myself, so cannot say for sure that it will work; just passing it on for what its worth and it may be worth a try. Perhaps some of our other members can shed some further light on this. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3531 From: Lois A. Pomeroy Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              good one....don't think so..as long as chemicals are not in the water,,,,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cats. love running,,water...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and the more water they drink,,the better for the urinary tract.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just me,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Lois
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              p.s..persian cat breeder..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              iloveguppies <CK147@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just wanted to ask anyone who knows, is the fishtank water bad for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cats. with the nitrites? and since i just added 2 fish the ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              spike? i can't ever seem to keep my cats of my tank, there always
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              drinking from the part where the water comes out of the filter. i'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hate for them to get sick. any info please. thanks



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Lois A. Pomeroy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.silverclub.de/Chelcecats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3532 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/12/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nopes, That defiantly is a Bolivian Ram. Exact patterns, exact colours, exact shape and the mouth is same as well

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://basic1.easily.co.uk/01501B/058023/bolivian_ram.jpg another picture of Bolivian Ram. This is not a species related to the Original Rams (papiliochromis ramirezi) but is a different species alltogather. (papiliochromis altispinosa)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: sevenspringss@... [mailto:sevenspringss@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 13 July 2004 05:38
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Can anyone identify this guy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Carly, As Steve said, this is definitely some species of Apistogramma (Dwarf South American Cichlid), and not a Bolivian Ram as the mouth is too low-slung. The pattern is typical Apistogramma, in the fright mode. Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3533 From: paul helms Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              we talked about this a few weeks ago, when i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              recomended the same thing to a few people. the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              crushed lava from green houses is an all natural lava,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              not man made like the stuff you buy in aquariums. it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              does lower ph over time. i was using it as substarte
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              in an angel tank and found out the hard way just how
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              much it can lower the ph. after running perfectly for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              8 months, my ph suddenly began to drop and bottomed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              out at 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              paul

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Joe G., I just came across something on another
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > forum which may help your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > high pH problem. It seems that crushed (about the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > size of medium gravel) or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > several larger pieces of Lave Rock will lower your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > pH. It is found at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > flower/greenhouse shops and is use for some orchids.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Don't use too much -use it sparingly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > at first - better too little than too much, than see
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > how it goes. I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > recommend bringing your pH down much below 7.6 or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 7.8. It will be a lot easier to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > make stressless water changes and it still in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > comfortable zone. Note: I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > haven't tried this myself, so cannot say for sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that it will work; just passing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > it on for what its worth and it may be worth a try.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Perhaps some of our other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > members can shed some further light on this. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3534 From: paul helms Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              oh gotcha, i did not post with breaks, but if that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              how it showed up...weird


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Just seemed rather strange with the breaks , paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > From: paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 3:41 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > that message was a reply to a question....if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > read
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the question then it will make sense mark. she
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > worried about goldfish getting air in their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > abdomens.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > --- Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Do you have a decoder ring to go with this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > message?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > From: Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > To:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:> they are more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > to suck in because goldfish are> agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > eaters.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > i would not worry about the> airbubbles, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > suggest adding flake food to the> tank from a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > with tank water in it. this will> cause it to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > sink
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > faster, and being goldfish they will> find it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > fine.> > > > > > Thanks Paul, I'll try that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tina> >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3535 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yea, it looked like this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Jack<<and Jill went up<<the<<hill<<<to fetch a pail<<<of water,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that was why I mentioned the decoder ring, wan't trying to be a smart ass just would like them to switch off what ever was creating these breaks, probably this group is set as "Text Only" and they might have had it as HTML...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Oh well, I think we'll move back to he battle of the gouramis, I'm lossing even more ground there, Dunkrick>?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              MJB
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:03 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Airstone problem?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              oh gotcha, i did not post with breaks, but if that is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              how it showed up...weird


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Just seemed rather strange with the breaks , paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   From: paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 3:41 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   that message was a reply to a question....if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > read
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   the question then it will make sense mark.  she
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   worried about goldfish getting air in their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > abdomens.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   --- Mark & Peta Bethke <mbethke@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > Do you have a decoder ring to go with this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > message?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   >   ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   >   From: Tina
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   >   To:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   >   Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:58 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   >   Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > Airstone problem?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   >   --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > helms <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:> they are more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > likely
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > to suck in because goldfish are> agressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > eaters.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > i would not worry about the> airbubbles, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > suggest adding flake food to the> tank from a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > with tank water in it.  this will> cause it to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > sink
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > faster, and being goldfish they will> find it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >   > fine.> > > > > > Thanks Paul, I'll try that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Tina> >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3536 From: frank Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Hello group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am an owner of a small aquarium, just for decorative purposes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              really.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Trouble being now is that the ones that grow big have done and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ones that stay small have 'disapeared'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I liked the small colourful Tetra's and things but now have 2 clown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              loaches I think they are that were cute a couple of years back. Now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              are cute still, but 4 -5 inches and bullies. Also one tiger barb has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              survived that's only aim in life now is to chase anything that moves.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Of the others they too were small but are 2 inches plus now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Have been advised that new fish will be bullied into submission and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              these shops around me will 'take mine of my hands' but expect me to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              pay for new fish. Out of order in my book as I would much rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              find a person who can appreciate them for free or at most a swap of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              something smaller.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I live in South London.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Frank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3537 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Wow, I guess you wouldn't have much time. hehehe oh yeah and i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              chase and clean up after a two year old, who loves they fish. they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              where for her at first but i love them aswell. I want to make an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              outside pond but i like to look at the side of the fish not the tops
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              of them. =:o)



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > That isn't including the three fish tanks and fairly large pond in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > yard! Between keeping the tanks and litter boxes clean, dogs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              trained
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > and going to dog shows I don't have much time on my hands! LOL!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Wow that's alot of animals in the house. we have 4 fish tanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              10,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > 20, 1 and 1/2 and another 10 gallon. 2 cats, 1 frog, 1 newt, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > snakes, and at the moment 1 dog with four puppies in the house.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > outside is a different story we have one big bassett hound and 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > little doggies outside. =:o)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3538 From: Patrick Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If the cat has flea powder/collar, wouldn't that cause problems for the fish?  Animals seem to be fine after drinking from streams, lakes, ponds, etc., so I would think an aquarium with no deadly chemicals in it would be fine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "BTW, as they are inside cats my hats off to you for being a responsible Cat owners and not letting them wonder about."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just wondering what that means.  I have heard that cats should only be kept inside, but don't know why.  Where I live, there is always a stray cat or two coming around and living in our sheds.  They seem to revert to their wild forms quite easily.  They eat the mice around here, and are more than able to take care of themselves, so why should they not be let out.  To prevent overpopulation (which I know is a problem in some places, and with dogs around here)?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 2 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3539 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                They don't have flea colars, we don't seem to have problems with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fleas. in kansas the problem is flies (yuck) and mosquito's. well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                from my experience with our neighbors they have had like 5 outside
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cats, of which i have had to look at smashed in the road. it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                safer. but i'm sure there are many other reason's to keep them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                inside.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > If the cat has flea powder/collar, wouldn't that cause
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                problems for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish? Animals seem to be fine after drinking from streams, lakes,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ponds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > etc., so I would think an aquarium with no deadly chemicals in it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "BTW, as they are inside cats my hats off to you for being a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                responsible Cat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > owners and not letting them wonder about."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Just wondering what that means. I have heard that cats should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                only be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > kept inside, but don't know why. Where I live, there is always a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                stray cat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > or two coming around and living in our sheds. They seem to revert
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > wild forms quite easily. They eat the mice around here, and are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > able to take care of themselves, so why should they not be let
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                out. To
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > prevent overpopulation (which I know is a problem in some places,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > dogs around here)?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                java ferns,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                filter. Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3540 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >    Just wondering what that means.  I have heard that cats should only be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >kept inside, but don't know why.  Where I live, there is always a stray cat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >or two coming around and living in our sheds.  They seem to revert to their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >wild forms quite easily.  They eat the mice around here, and are more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >able to take care of themselves, so why should they not be let out.  To
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >prevent overpopulation (which I know is a problem in some places, and with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >dogs around here)?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Patrick N.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                They are the best when it comes to keeping the rodent population down, however they are just as good at killing off the native birds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My cat has taken to another level she bagged herself about 10 guppies over the last couple weeks. Little stinker. No more play time on the tanks for her, now its squirt gun time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3541 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                not only that, cats that are kept outdoors tend to have short and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                violent lives. it's much healthier for a cat to be kept indoors.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                On Jul 13, 2004, at 7:27 PM, Deenerz@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >    Just wondering what that means.  I have heard that cats should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > only be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >kept inside, but don't know why.  Where I live, there is always a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > stray cat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >or two coming around and living in our sheds.  They seem to revert
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >wild forms quite easily.  They eat the mice around here, and are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >able to take care of themselves, so why should they not be let out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >  To
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >prevent overpopulation (which I know is a problem in some places,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >dogs around here)?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > They are the best when it comes to keeping the rodent population
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > down, however they are just as good at killing off the native birds. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > My cat has taken to another level she bagged herself about 10 guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > over the last couple weeks.  Little stinker.  No more play time on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tanks for her, now its squirt gun time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                religion....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3542 From: questnjurny Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > If the cat has flea powder/collar, wouldn't that cause problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish? Animals seem to be fine after drinking from streams, lakes,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ponds,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > etc., so I would think an aquarium with no deadly chemicals in it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Do people still use those? LOL! Seriously, we haven't had a flea in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                our house in 3 years, ever since we put tile in our house (fleas like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to breed in carpet), so don't have to worry about having products on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                my cats.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Just wondering what that means. I have heard that cats should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                only be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > kept inside, but don't know why. Where I live, there is always a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                stray cat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > or two coming around and living in our sheds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In our case, 3 of the 5 are indoor cats. One is deaf, one is declawed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (before I got him, though it is nice!) and one loves dogs and with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                amount of stray dogs around here, that would not be a good idea. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                other two we barely ever see outside, let alone anyone else, and we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are on 3 acres, I don't think either leaves the property, they are too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                chicken. I am sure that someone will go into why cats shouldn't be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                allowed out. I personally have mixed feelings. My three indoor cats
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have a deck they go out on, and when I build my house in the next few
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                years they will have a cat run built outside. I think cats do need to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                be allowed out, however, I think the rules should be the same as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                dogs...no loose cats. There is nothing worse than waking up to cat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fights, or having a tom around the house spraying everything, not to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mention trying to sleep when there is a female in season, they call
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                for males and it is a horrible noise. As well, some people get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                little ticked if your cat poops in their garden. ;) Personally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                though, i would rather have cat poop in the garden then have to deal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                with stupid neighbour dogs who come in our yard and harrass our dogs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                who are safely, but now barking behind a fence...then we get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                complaints, usually from the people who have dogs at large...UGH!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To make this a fishy post....i picked up another bolivian ram today,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and he looks just like the one I was wondering about. It is more than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                likely that the first guy also came from this store, so whether they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are both bolivian rams or not, they are both the same thing at least!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I also got 3 julii cory catfish...I have to agree with everyone, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are the cutest little things! I had to move my Severum out of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tank with the Oscar, he finally stopped threatening and actually beat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                her up. Now the O is pouting, so I am on the hunt for one of equal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                size to him (~6"), which isn't easy because all the lfs's have is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                little guys.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3543 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks, Ray.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've been using a small peat filter and doing small, one-gallon *daily*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                water changes. This is a 55-gallon tank, so over the course of a week I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                should be changing more that 10% of the water. When I add, I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                buffer, I only treat for chlorine-chloramines.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So far, the pH has been pretty stable at about 7.3. The betta's colors
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                seem more vibrant and the water does have a slight brownish tint (which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I don't mind).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I would like to ask a second question, though:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Will charcoal / carbon filtration alone remove chloramines?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks again, -Joe G.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3544 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                H'lo,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sorry about being slightly off-topic, but besides possibly almost never eating live fish in my experience (actually none of my cats' have expressed any interest in aquarium fish except interestedly watching),  indoor cats, spayed and neutered, are'nt outside propogating through inbreeding, incubating horrifying diseases (I've seen them), getting into fights (that can lead to death through the damage caused by fights, and the sometimes ensuing dideases), starving, and developing genetic defects (because of localized conditions). My landlord and I humanely trapped 49 cats, from kittens to adults (within a few days) and they were taken to the humane-society. That was after and during the time they (or a large family of them) had taken to sleeping, resting and keeping warm insude a wooden-timber compost bin I had made. (compost generates heat). When weather had turned terribly cold, I made a cover of heavy doors salvaged from the police station of a local borough-hall (that was being renovated into a boutiqey thing) , a large aluminum awning, for a porch (so they had a dry/dryish area to come and go through the bad weather), and covered the whole thing with a fiber-reenforced tarp, but after lining the two chambered  compost area with pretty good old quilts. At that point there were quite a few kittens. I planted lots of stuff in thie little city back yard, stuff that offered cool shade on hot days, and the kittens seemed to relish it. These cats, the ones who found a home in the yard were some of the lucky ones. The problems some of the other results of unspayed/unneutered , abandoned cats were absolutely awful. Cats should ideally be kept indoors, spayed or neutered, and have appropriate innoculations. ( even spayed and neutered cats can catch and eat animals that convey worms, but that's something some are willing to contend with). Some compassionate people have seen the need to treat feral cat communities by capture, spaying and neutering, health exams and innoculations, to keep the problem to a minimum, and allow the little guys a decent life, wherever they found the cats, if that's possible. . If you're living in a 'Pleasant-Valley', maybe the abandoned animal population will never catch up to local problems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3545 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Gourami problem/people problems?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you believe that only the red belly piranha will take a bite out of a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                human, you may wish to check with Rosario LaCorte about the non-red belly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that took a piece out of his leg when he was in a pond in a grassland area
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                in South America.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                As I said to my girl, when was the last time they were fed? A piranha of any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                type is less likely to take a bite out of you if it already has a full
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                belly, no matter what the color.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Mark & Peta Bethke [mailto:mbethke@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 11:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thank you for the reply Erin,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Of course with all Species there are exceptions , I don't want to backtrack
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                too far as the gourami species I mentioned are bullies , like the "Kissing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gourami" isn't kissing at all , it's engaging in combat. The African Bush
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish are notorious which will take over your tank and are the only gouramis
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that can stand up to cichlids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That being said, Mollies , swordtails and platys will change sexes when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                there is a lack of males. This happens mostly in Swordtails .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But generalization is not usually correct but in selecting species should be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of consideration but not a final word on the matter. I wouldn't house tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                in the same tank as cichlids, now I'm sure this will light a fire but why,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                isn't this too generalizations. I have seen a mouse that would share it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                food with a cat , I have seen a dog been chased from a bowl of food by a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                rabbit . People in the state of California are convinced that ferrets would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                overpopulate the state if they got loose, yet you can't buy a ferret
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Intact" and most pet ferrets die from starvation if they "Get out".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Tonight on a disgusting show called "Fear Factor " the contestants (if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that's what you want to call them) will be diving into a tank of piranhas,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                now the public hears that name and instantly thinks of meat striping, teeth
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                slashing fish, there is only one species that will attack humans , the red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bellied , (no I don't want to look them up) but the piranhas used looked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                like Whipples , not red bellied. but the viewing public doesn't know.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The point being this ,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Two Betta's in a naked bowl of water will rip each other to shreds,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Two Betta's in a 50 gl tank thick with plants , rocks, caves and many places
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to hide will never run into each other and if they do will fight for a short
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                time and each take their ends and that's it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ENVIRONMENT, the most important factor to keeping the peace, Mark


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: Witchywmn42@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 3:11 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Gourami problem/people
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                problems?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 7/12/2004 12:01:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@... writes:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So if you like long finned fish or passive tetras dump the platys.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                *platy's also includes swordtails and mollies, they are not to be trusted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                even with themselves



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Poor livebearers get such a bad rap! I've got four platies in my livebearer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tank ... three Red Wag and one Mickey Mouse ... all female. They are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                most docile of the entire tank, much preferring to hide under the driftwood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                than to chase the other fish. The other fish are Mollies ... four "Fancy"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and one Black Balloon Molly. (one fancy is a male ... sneaky bugger had me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                convinced for months now that he was female, until I caught him chasing my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                black balloon molly) Of all of the residents of my tank, ONE of my adult
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mollie females is the resident "bully". She is the one that chases the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                others, especially at feeding time if there is what she perceives to be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                choice morsel of food.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I think with any breed, you run into troubles when you try to say that ALL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish of a given species have the same personality. (But then, a lot of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                people in this group are already aware of my pro-livebearer tendencies.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So there is no idea why the Gourami mentioned at the start of this thread is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                acting the way that it does. I think that one of the better practices when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                looking at fish for your aquarium, is to spend some time watching them in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the tanks at the LFS ... if you see one that chases the others around and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                nips at them, you can bet that that particular fish might be a bit of a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bully. That doesn't mean that ALL fish of that species are bullies. You just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                can't predict how fish will act when you put them together.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3546 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Ecoaqualizer?????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Does anyone know anything about this? www.ecoaqualizer.com



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -JOe G.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3547 From: Jason Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ecoaqualizer?????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This seems like a late night infomercial. Notice
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the "PATENTED", "NASA", and "IONIZATION". Is this made by RonCo?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Popeil anyone? This thing may work, I don't know but for 35 or 50
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bucks just to decrease my water changes, doesn't seem worth it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                User <joegum@v...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Does anyone know anything about this? www.ecoaqualizer.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -JOe G.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3548 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim; Having had these fish in the past, I would have to say going by Carly's photo, that it looks to me to be an Apistogramma, although I do see some similarities (mouth structure) to the Bolivian Ram. Would like to see the better photo that Carly said was coming. In the meantime, I've come up with five sites to go to (there are plenty more) that picture the Bolivian Ram and none look like Carly's photo. These are: <www.uniquaria.com/photogallery/amerdwarf/tf_bolram147.ipg> (photo 11), <www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks/tk-liam2.htm>, <www.cichlidae.com/articles/a031.php>, <www.btinternet.com/^pdj_photos/fish/fish.htm> and www.cichlid.org/Photos/s10/pages/PH0185.htm>. This last site is for the ACA; if they don't know what a Bolivian Ram looks like, nobody does! However, in all fairness, I have to concede that Carly's fish still could be a Bolivian Ram as you said; his photo being misleading, as it does not look like any typical Bolivian Ram due to the pattern on it, and "appears" more like an Apisto. Carly, please post a better shot if you can. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3549 From: questnjurny Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ray and all,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I will try and get a new shot in the next couple days or so, hopefully
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that will clear up what he is! Is there a possibility that he could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                be a hybrid of some sort? Can the various Ram varities interbreed?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3550 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ray,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Surprisingly, All pictures are of Bolivian Rams. These buggers come in various shades of gray and various intensity of gray on the body and change colour drastically. Reason why I am so confident is coz I have these buggers. Have a look at the pic below

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.nimmat.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=11

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The one on which you can see the spot is the aggressor and the one with stripes is the weaker one. When even slightly startled, these develop colour exactly the same as what Carly has. They lose the orange on the chest and the spot on the tabl and either turn all grayish or graish stripes (Just like Carly’s). Pattern on these fish is different then real rams.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: sevenspringss@... [mailto:sevenspringss@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 14 July 2004 06:12
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Can anyone identify this guy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim; Having had these fish in the past, I would have to say going by Carly's photo, that it looks to me to be an Apistogramma, although I do see some similarities (mouth structure) to the Bolivian Ram. Would like to see the better photo that Carly said was coming. In the meantime, I've come up with five sites to go to (there are plenty more) that picture the Bolivian Ram and none look like Carly's photo. These are: <www.uniquaria.com/photogallery/amerdwarf/tf_bolram147.ipg> (photo 11), <www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/tanks/tk-liam2.htm>, <www.cichlidae.com/articles/a031.php>, <www.btinternet.com/^pdj_photos/fish/fish.htm> and www.cichlid.org/Photos/s10/pages/PH0185.htm>. This last site is for the ACA; if they don't know what a Bolivian Ram looks like, nobody does! However, in all fairness, I have to concede that Carly's fish still could be a Bolivian Ram as you said; his photo being misleading, as it does not look like any typical Bolivian Ram due to the pattern on it, and "appears" more like an Apisto. Carly, please post a better shot if you can. Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3551 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/13/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe G., Supposedly, charcoal/carbon takes out all impurities and yes it should remove cloramines, but how do you know when the absorption capacity of the charcoal or carbon is used up? Charcoal and carbon have a limited life as far as filtering goes. First of all, you can't rely on your aquarium filter to take out the cloramines as, while it is doing this job, you are subjecting your fish to any chloramines that you've added to the tank before the filter can remove all of these impurities. Your best bet is an in-line filter (carbon) in your tap water supply meant for just your aquarium(s). The cartridge is changeable (replaceable) and is rated for a certain amount of gallons run through it, after which its no longer very effective - this can vary as to how much impurities are actually being removed. This can get expensive! Getting back to aquarium filters (not to use them for chloramine removal); many years ago before carbon came on the market for aquarium filters, we only had carbon (which worked very well). It was brought out that the charcoal could be "recharged" by first boiling it, and then baking it. This supposedly cleaned and re-opened the tiny pores throughout the charcoal. Many of us use to do this periodically, although I can't say how effective it was. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3552 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joe,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Charcoal does remove Chlorine and Chloramines but it is too slow in acting.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you use Charcoal filtered water to do water changes, then you have to run
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the water through the carbon for a long time. I came across a flow rate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                somewhere... will try and find it for you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Safest and fastest and probably the cheapest method is still a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                dechlorinator/water conditioner that does remove them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >From: Xandros Desktop OS User [mailto:joegum@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Sent: 14 July 2004 01:55
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Thanks, Ray.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >I've been using a small peat filter and doing small, one-gallon *daily*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >water changes. This is a 55-gallon tank, so over the course of a week I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >should be changing more that 10% of the water. When I add, I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >buffer, I only treat for chlorine-chloramines.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >So far, the pH has been pretty stable at about 7.3. The betta's colors
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >seem more vibrant and the water does have a slight brownish tint (which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >I don't mind).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >I would like to ask a second question, though:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Will charcoal / carbon filtration alone remove chloramines?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Thanks again, -Joe G.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3553 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.resintech.com/Content/TechArticles/Activated%20Carbon%20Filtratio
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                n.pdf

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It says that 1cubic feet of activated carbon block removes chlorine at a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                rate of 3-5 gallons per min and a bed depth of 3 feet. 1lb of chlorine per
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1lb of carbon. Chloramines is 0.5 gallons per min with the same volume of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                carbon. So practically, it will take much longer and even a slower flow rate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                (or many circulations) of water through carbon to remove these things. A
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                good example in front of us is the RO Units. One of the reasons why RO Units
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have such low flow rates is coz of chlorine and chloramines removal by the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                carbon block. Any water hitting the membrane should be chlorine free else it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                will kill the membrane.. hence slow rate. It is further reduced a lot by the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                reverse osmosis action through the membrane as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >From: Xandros Desktop OS User [mailto:joegum@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Sent: 14 July 2004 01:55
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Thanks, Ray.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >I've been using a small peat filter and doing small, one-gallon *daily*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >water changes. This is a 55-gallon tank, so over the course of a week I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >should be changing more that 10% of the water. When I add, I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >buffer, I only treat for chlorine-chloramines.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >So far, the pH has been pretty stable at about 7.3. The betta's colors
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >seem more vibrant and the water does have a slight brownish tint (which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >I don't mind).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >I would like to ask a second question, though:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Will charcoal / carbon filtration alone remove chloramines?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Thanks again, -Joe G.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3554 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks Nim and Ray,


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I was hoping to use go a totally chem-free to aquarium keeping, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i can see that this may not be the wisest choice.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks, -Joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3555 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Ecoaqualizer?????
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What interested me was the claim (in the mag ad, but not on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                web-site?) that this thing can eluiminate parasites, harmful bacteria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and ohter nasties. -Joe G.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3556 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And Fish that are kept with cats indoors tend to have short and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                violent lives, too...LOL. We went through more male bettas with our
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cat, Pyewacket...finally figured out that he was sitting on the hood,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                reaching his paw into the cutout area for the heater and swiping at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the betta when he came to hide in his corner. It wasn't until we got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                one with a pale body that the clawmarks showed up, since Pye's claws
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are like needles. So we took off the hood, got a roll of window
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                screen (metal, not nylon) and made a form fitting screen for under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the hood to foil the rotten cat. voila! no more dead bettas!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > not only that, cats that are kept outdoors tend to have short and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > violent lives. it's much healthier for a cat to be kept indoors.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3557 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: cats & fishtank water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 7/14/2004 10:20:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, brennewoman@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So we took off the hood, got a roll of window
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                screen (metal, not nylon) and made a form fitting screen for under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the hood to foil the rotten cat.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My daughter's betta tank doesn't have any openings that the kitties can get into, but that sounds like a good idea for our 15 gallon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Wonder if the mesh tops they make for reptile tanks would work with the same concept? Might be worth trying. But the way my hood nestles inside the inner lip of the top edge of the tank might make it difficult to accomplish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3558 From: Laura F. Garcia Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: File - Welcome
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My name is Laura and I live in western WA. I raised a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                freshwater fish down in Texas but when I married and moved to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                WA, I left my tanks and fish with my son. I was afraid the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish wouldn't make the move too well. Now I am suffering from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish withdrawal. I haven't bought a new aquarium yet. If any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of you live in western WA, particularly eastside, I would love
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a recommedation for a dealer. Also, I would love to know your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                preference(s) for brands of tanks and other supplies. I still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                consider myself a beginner in this hobby and look forward to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                learning from more experienced and knowledgeable folks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for your welcome!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Cordially,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Laura Garcia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3559 From: dorothy wheeler Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: File - Welcome
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi Laura,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Welcome to the club! I am sure you will receive a lot of good info from club members. I am still learning so I don't have much to contribute yet. Sorry, I am from Pa.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Dorothy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Laura F. Garcia" <lfigarcia@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My name is Laura and I live in western WA.  I raised a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                freshwater fish down in Texas but when I married and moved to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                WA, I left my tanks and fish with my son.  I was afraid the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish wouldn't make the move too well.  Now I am suffering from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish withdrawal.  I haven't bought a new aquarium yet.  If any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of you live in western WA, particularly eastside, I would love
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a recommedation for a dealer.  Also, I would love to know your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                preference(s) for brands of tanks and other supplies.  I still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                consider myself a beginner in this hobby and look forward to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                learning from more experienced and knowledgeable folks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for your welcome!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Cordially,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Laura Garcia




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3560 From: salt150g Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3561 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/14/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim, Unless I missed it, non of your shots look like Carly's fish, but are more colorful. If these fish can adapt that pattern when stressed, I can see that's what threw me off. Almost looks like it could be mistaken for an Apisto, which I thought it was at first, but can see its the Bolivian Ram like you said, with a fright pattern. I had a pair a little while back but no extra males and never saw this pattern displayed as my male was always dominant (being the only one) so never saw that pattern on him. By the way, your site shows some nicely aquascaped tanks and that coffee table is wild. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3562 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the average life span of carbon, that is its activated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                state, in a standard flow rate of a back filter is no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                more than 30 days. this is accounted for by the size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of bag or cartridge that you have in your filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                most packages tell you to replace them every 4 to 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                weeks. if you wait six weeks, your carbon has become
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a live bio filter. if you would like to increase your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                effectiveness with carbon, i suggest using aqua clear
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                filters. you can easily use a nylon bag, or an old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                pair of nylons, to put more carbon than is supplied
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                from the manufacturer. refilling these non disposable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bags is much cheaper, costing about 1.00 instead of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                4.00. this means that you can still change it every 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                weeks in a higher flow rate for 1.2 the price.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                paul

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Joe G., Supposedly, charcoal/carbon takes out all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > impurities and yes it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > should remove cloramines, but how do you know when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the absorption capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > charcoal or carbon is used up? Charcoal and carbon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have a limited life as far
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > as filtering goes. First of all, you can't rely on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > your aquarium filter to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > out the cloramines as, while it is doing this job,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > you are subjecting your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish to any chloramines that you've added to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tank before the filter can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > remove all of these impurities. Your best bet is an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > in-line filter (carbon) in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > your tap water supply meant for just your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > aquarium(s). The cartridge is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > changeable (replaceable) and is rated for a certain
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > amount of gallons run through it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > after which its no longer very effective - this can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > vary as to how much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > impurities are actually being removed. This can get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > expensive! Getting back to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > aquarium filters (not to use them for chloramine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > removal); many years ago before
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > carbon came on the market for aquarium filters, we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > only had carbon (which worked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > very well). It was brought out that the charcoal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > could be "recharged" by first
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > boiling it, and then baking it. This supposedly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > cleaned and re-opened the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > tiny pores throughout the charcoal. Many of us use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > to do this periodically,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > although I can't say how effective it was. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3563 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Can anyone identify this guy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks Ray J

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The table tank I am now selling as I am moving to a new home very soon and I will not have space for it… but it was a very exciting project that taught me a lot of things about aquarium building.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Regarding Cary ’s pic.. it does not seem to be in good light and hence the missing orange from the chest. But other points like a faint black spot on the back (barley visible due to the pattern, red lining on the caudal fin, orange/pink anal fin, bar though the eyes, typical head and mouth shape and position, slight fluorescent blues on the gills and the first 2 rays of the dorsal fin coupled with a red lining on the top are all pure characteristics of the Bolivian ram which are very similar to the original ram (hence the name RAM). Also, there is no real way of telling the males from the females in Bolivian rams I think as colour and shape on both the males and females are very similar… but I could be wrong.. I seem to have 2 males, but sometimes they roam around together like they were a couple???? Very very strange.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: sevenspringss@... [mailto:sevenspringss@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: 15 July 2004 04:06
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Can anyone identify this guy?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Nim, Unless I missed it, non of your shots look like Carly's fish, but are more colorful. If these fish can adapt that pattern when stressed, I can see that's what threw me off. Almost looks like it could be mistaken for an Apisto, which I thought it was at first, but can see its the Bolivian Ram like you said, with a fright pattern. I had a pair a little while back but no extra males and never saw this pattern displayed as my male was always dominant (being the only one) so never saw that pattern on him. By the way, your site shows some nicely aquascaped tanks and that coffee table is wild. Ray

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3564 From: bryants4god Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: filter floss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I need to know if I can use regular polyester fiber fill in place of filter floss.  The kind you get in the fabric department in walmart.  The bag says hypoallergenic but not mildew resistant or anything like that.  Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3565 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter floss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wouldn't.. it could have something in it that could kill your fish.. try your local pet store.. they should have the filter floss in big bags.. it's real cheap at mine..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Linda Miller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3566 From: bryants4god Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter floss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks Linda.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: LL314158@... [mailto:LL314158@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] filter floss

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wouldn't.. it could have something in it that could kill your fish.. try your local pet store.. they should have the filter floss in big bags.. it's real cheap at mine..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Linda Miller


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3567 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  absolutely, i have a 135 gallon saltwater system and i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  work withthem as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  paul

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- salt150g <salt150g@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3568 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter floss
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  no problem. glad to be of help..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  e-mail me anytime..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3569 From: fishtankbabe Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm about to mess with them... :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm planning a 29 gallon reef w/ a 10 gal sump.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- salt150g <salt150g@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3570 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have 30 gal reef, have a look under photos then sherrie's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  These were taken at 8 weeks. My reef is now 15 weeks. Need new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  photos soon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Las vegas NV



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "salt150g"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <salt150g@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3571 From: Rei - Raymond Tremor Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    how do you use a nylon (is it like a panty hose or something), just imagining how to do that. cause the filter cartridge (bio bag) cost a lot. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I'LL MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW, I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...AND THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANT TO BE YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: 07/15/04 10:18:53
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the average life span of carbon, that is its activated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    state, in a standard flow rate of a back filter is no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    more than 30 days.  this is accounted for by the size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    of bag or cartridge that you have in your filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    most packages tell you to replace them every 4 to 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    weeks.  if you wait six weeks, your carbon has become
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    a live bio filter.  if you would like to increase your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    effectiveness with carbon, i suggest using aqua clear
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    filters.  you can easily use a nylon bag, or an old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    pair of nylons, to put more carbon than is supplied
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    from the manufacturer.  refilling these non disposable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bags is much cheaper, costing about 1.00 instead of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    4.00. this means that you can still change it every 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    weeks in a higher flow rate for 1.2 the price.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    paul

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- sevenspringss@wmconnect.com wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Joe G., Supposedly, charcoal/carbon takes out all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > impurities and yes it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > should remove cloramines, but how do you know when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the absorption capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > charcoal or carbon is used up? Charcoal and carbon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have a limited life as far
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > as filtering goes. First of all, you can't rely on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > your aquarium filter to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > out the cloramines as, while it is doing this job,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > you are subjecting your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > fish to any chloramines that you've added to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tank before the filter can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > remove all of these impurities. Your best bet is an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in-line filter (carbon) in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > your tap water supply meant for just your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium(s). The cartridge is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > changeable (replaceable) and is rated for a certain
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > amount of gallons run through it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > after which its no longer very effective - this can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > vary as to how much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > impurities are actually being removed. This can get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > expensive! Getting back to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium filters (not to use them for chloramine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > removal); many years ago before
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > carbon came on the market for aquarium filters, we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > only had carbon (which worked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > very well). It was brought out that the charcoal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > could be "recharged" by first
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > boiling it, and then baking it. This supposedly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > cleaned and re-opened the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tiny pores throughout the charcoal. Many of us use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > to do this periodically,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > although I can't say how effective it was. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Stationary was made by Rei
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Graphics taken from the net
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3572 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: lazy koi?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hi all, i have a koi pond in my backyard, it's about 700 gallons or so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and there's about 10 fish in it, all relatively small. the largest is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    probably 7" and the smallest is about 2", if that. there are also some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    crayfish, tadpoles and snails in with the koi. all of my fish seem very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    happy and healthy, except one. this one is a shubunkin, it's about 4"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    long and he's moving in slow motion. it has no spots, no ripped fins,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it isn't floating at the top or laboring at the bottom. it's just over
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    away from the other fish staying at in one spot. i caught it yesterday
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    to get a better look at it, and once it was removed from the water, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thrashed like a healthy fish, and as soon as i assessed that it had no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    lesions, spots or other deformities, i put it back in the water where
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it swam, veeeery slowly back to it's old spot.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    is it possible this fish has laid eggs or something? what would cause
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    this one fish to be so lethargic? when all of the others are happy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    does anyone have any experience with this type of behavior?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3573 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it's a little small, so make sure you stay on topof
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it, and make sure you have excellent filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    including a good protein skimmer.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- fishtankbabe <fishtankbabe@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'm about to mess with them... :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'm planning a 29 gallon reef w/ a 10 gal sump.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- salt150g <salt150g@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > reef
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3574 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Try taking a look at, yahoogroups.com, salterwater fish and reef aquariums, an exelent group and very helpfull people.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 unclenorm.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    salt150g <salt150g@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef tanks???




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3575 From: salt150g Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'll have to check out that reef group, I'm buying a 29gal reef setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    this weekend. I have a 150 gal that I want to set up salt but its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    looking more and more expensive everyday but I guess that's the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    heartache of a hobby.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "fishtankbabe"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <fishtankbabe@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'm about to mess with them... :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'm planning a 29 gallon reef w/ a 10 gal sump.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- salt150g <salt150g@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3576 From: salt150g Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That looks nice what equip. are you running on that??? The tank I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    buying is running off an eclipse hood with retrofit kit lights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    heater and powerhead. I'm not sure what watts the lights are yet but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I figured if I add more live rock and an additional power head for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    good current and a protien skimmer then this tank should not have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    problems. The guys who owns it now only has about 5 lbs of live rock
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in it now. He has only owned it for about 3 weeks and he wants to set
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    his 65 gallon for reefs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have 30 gal reef, have a look under photos then sherrie's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > These were taken at 8 weeks. My reef is now 15 weeks. Need new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > photos soon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Las vegas NV
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "salt150g"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <salt150g@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3577 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    if you want a reef to thrive in their you will need to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    upgrade to power compacts, the 15 watt bulbs in that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    are not strong enough to keep corals alive for long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    periods of time

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- salt150g <salt150g@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > That looks nice what equip. are you running on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > that??? The tank I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > buying is running off an eclipse hood with retrofit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > kit lights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > heater and powerhead. I'm not sure what watts the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > lights are yet but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I figured if I add more live rock and an additional
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > power head for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > good current and a protien skimmer then this tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > should not have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > problems. The guys who owns it now only has about 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > lbs of live rock
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in it now. He has only owned it for about 3 weeks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > and he wants to set
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > his 65 gallon for reefs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > I have 30 gal reef, have a look under photos then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sherrie's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > These were taken at 8 weeks. My reef is now 15
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > weeks. Need new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > photos soon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Las vegas NV
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > "salt150g"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > <salt150g@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > reef tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you Yahoo!?
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3578 From: paul helms Date: 7/15/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: pH questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    does not work well with cartridge style back filters,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    better to use aquaclear filters in my opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Rei - Raymond Tremor <r.tremor@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > how do you use a nylon (is it like a panty hose or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > something), just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > imagining how to do that. cause the filter cartridge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (bio bag) cost a lot.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Rei - Raymond Tremor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.geocities.com/reitremor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-fishes.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.geocities.com/raymondtremor/my-bettas.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I WON'T MARRY A WOMAN THAT I CAN LIVE WITH, BUT I'LL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > MARRY A WOMAN THAT I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > IF YOU THINK THAT I WILL GO AND FIND SOMEONE NEW,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I'LL GO AHEAD AND LEAVE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > YOU...BUT BEFORE I DO, I'LL ASK MYSELF..."SHOULD I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > SETTLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > WHEN I ALREADY GOT THE BEST?"...AND THAT'S YOU.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR FIRST LOVE, I WANT TO BE
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > YOUR LAST.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Date: 07/15/04 10:18:53
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the average life span of carbon, that is its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > activated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > state, in a standard flow rate of a back filter is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > more than 30 days. this is accounted for by the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > size
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of bag or cartridge that you have in your filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > most packages tell you to replace them every 4 to 6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > weeks. if you wait six weeks, your carbon has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > become
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > a live bio filter. if you would like to increase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > effectiveness with carbon, i suggest using aqua
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > clear
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > filters. you can easily use a nylon bag, or an old
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > pair of nylons, to put more carbon than is supplied
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > from the manufacturer. refilling these non
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > disposable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > bags is much cheaper, costing about 1.00 instead of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 4.00. this means that you can still change it every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > weeks in a higher flow rate for 1.2 the price.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- sevenspringss@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Joe G., Supposedly, charcoal/carbon takes out all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > impurities and yes it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > should remove cloramines, but how do you know when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > the absorption capacity of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > charcoal or carbon is used up? Charcoal and carbon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > have a limited life as far
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > as filtering goes. First of all, you can't rely on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > your aquarium filter to take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > out the cloramines as, while it is doing this job,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > you are subjecting your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > fish to any chloramines that you've added to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > tank before the filter can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > remove all of these impurities. Your best bet is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > in-line filter (carbon) in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > your tap water supply meant for just your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > aquarium(s). The cartridge is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > changeable (replaceable) and is rated for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > certain
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > amount of gallons run through it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > after which its no longer very effective - this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > vary as to how much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > impurities are actually being removed. This can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > expensive! Getting back to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > aquarium filters (not to use them for chloramine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > removal); many years ago before
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > carbon came on the market for aquarium filters, we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > only had carbon (which worked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > very well). It was brought out that the charcoal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > could be "recharged" by first
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > boiling it, and then baking it. This supposedly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > cleaned and re-opened the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > tiny pores throughout the charcoal. Many of us use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > to do this periodically,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > although I can't say how effective it was. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3579 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Plant disease problem
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Holes in the leaves, depending on what plant are indicative of snail damage, herbivorous fish damage, or potassium deficiency.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Brown spots are diatomaceous algae. Easy to get rid of with small loricariids like otocinclus.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Black edges and black tufts is, tadaaa, red or black algae. It is one of the more difficult to get rid of. Very few aquarium fishes, shrimps and snails touch the stuff. The most trusted way is to alter conditions to favor the vascular plants such that they outcompete the algae to manageable levels or into recession.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It's kind of a rude welcome for the newbie to the world of planted tanks. Given time, research and more experience, I'm sure you'll be able to control or get rid of algae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Rod
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    paul helms <wtfmorlok@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the stringy black part ismore than likely alagae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    there are a few fish that eat the string algae, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    others can give you the name.  it is a natural filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    for your tank but can block light from your plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    some fish do like to nibble at leaves also.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- jlwright72601 <jlwright@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hi All, I'm new to the group and would like to ask a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > question. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > have a plant that has large leaves that has holes in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the leaves and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is forming black edges on the leaves. It also has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hairy looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > black things that seem to be growing from the edges
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of the leaves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > It is getting gross looking and I need to find out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > what is causing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it. This is a 46 gallon tank and only about a month
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > old. A couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > other plants have some brown areas forming also.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Jim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3580 From: Rodrigo Jr. Marquez Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: SNAILS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hi, Joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How about your other tank denizens? I think it's because pothos leaves are poisonous. Some of its toxic cousins include the dieffenbachias, aglaonemas and alocasias. The poison may be short-lasting, the snail could have died from direct ingestion of the leaf.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Rod

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    H'lo,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       In case someone remembers the snail of two I mentioned a couple or so emails back, I remembered the first so-called pest-snail died 'cause I placed a 'Pothos" leaf (a relative of Philodendron ) in the tank to root, or 'till I had time to see if it would root in a glass, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I found the snail was attracted to the leaf, but stopped his perennial foraging somewhat, and I later found him dead at the bottom of the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Joe P



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3581 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Cichlid Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm going to be setting up another 55 gallon aquarium and haven't entirely decided what I'm going to keep in it. But have been looking at cichlids. Sorta like a mixed tank of species either mixing african cichlid species or other cichlids. Like some of severums, firemouth cichlids, and the like. Already have a male black convict cichlid in with my turtles but not sure he could get along with any fish currently the entire 55 seems to be his territory and is defended even the turtles are afraid of him. Any suggestions for good cichlids for a 55 gallon would be appreciated. Also which one would u suggest an african cichlid tank or a south american cichlid tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3582 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: new babies!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I found three or four new babies in my molly and platy tank this morning. Since there is only one male molly, and there haven't been any male platies or any baby platies in several months, I'm not sure about the babies' species.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    They are either mollies, or they are platies that the new Mickey Mouse had. They're brand new babies and they all appear to be the same type, so I can't tell just based on size comparison like I did with the first set. If they are platies, they definitely aren't red wag ... these are all white little buggers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There are either three live and one dead (I had a hard time catching one and he darted between the edge of the net and the aquarium glass), or there are four live. At any rate, I netted them and transferred them to the breeding box with riccia floating in the top.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't think there are any more hiding in the tank, because I lifted out the driftwood and the log decoration when I was on baby search.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Right now they're happily hiding amongst the riccia in their little box. :) (Hey mom, did any of the riccia end up not getting transferred to the pond??) I guess it's a good thing that I got the free sample of tropical flakes from Hikari recently, because it's time for me to crush up some flakes for babies again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just wanted to share the news. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3583 From: Michelle in PDX Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have just started with saltwater. I am currently doing a fishless cycle on a 29 gallon salt tank that I plan to set up as a reef tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Michelle in PDX



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Saltwater

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    absolutely, i have a 135 gallon saltwater system and i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    work withthem as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    paul

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- salt150g <salt150g@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3584 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Cichlid Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Jonathan, Most any small to medium Cichlids would go good in a 55 Gallon tank. The choice is really up to you depending on what you like best, but of course you don't want to mix New World Cichlids with Rift Lake Cichlids as it seems you are probably aware of. For ease of maintenance (water changing, etc.) it would probably be more convenient to try Cichlids that do best in your type of tap water (high or low pH, etc.). For South American Cichlids, you would do fine with the Severums you mentioned as well as Keyholes, Festivum and Chocolate (temporalis, not coryphanoides) Cichlids, as for the most part, they are more milder mannered and they all like slightly acid water. Firemouths can be kept in mind and will do okay in the same water although they prefer slightly alkaline water. As for the Rift Lake Cichlids, they prefer more alkaline water. Keep in mind, if you mix Malawi Mbunas (rock-dwelling mouthbrooders), they may well interbreed, whereas most Tanganyikan mouthbrooders will not, as in general, they are not as closely related to each other although different populations of the same species (T. moorei for instance) of course will breed, which you want to avoid. The latter type Cochlids prefer an even higher pH. To break it up a little, you could include some of the substrate spawners here, like Julies or Neolamprologus. Ray
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3585 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new babies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Right now they're happily hiding amongst the riccia in their little box. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >(Hey mom, did any of the riccia end up not getting transferred to the pond??)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Congratulations on the new arrivals, are you passing out chocolate cigars? ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (My Riccia in my 10 gallon is propagating itself very well so I would be happy to share some. - Mom)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    For the group, have any of you tried a liquid additive that is supposed to increase CO2 in a planted tank? Most of my plants are doing well, but my Water Sprite is shrinking... lost all its original 6" stems and put on three tiny new ones; and I am wondering if my Java Moss is really even alive, or "died and dyed" green. How slow does it grow?! Here is my tank info:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    10 gallons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hang-on filter that came with the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No heater on right now (it is standing by for winter)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Occupants:2 Dwarf Gourami (one male, one female)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 Otocinclus (undetermined sex)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    5 Golden White Cloud Minnows (looks like I may have 2 male & 3 female)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Plants: Java Moss (on Malaysian driftwood)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Water Sprite (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Cabomba, Green
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (started with one bunch, have already started 3 more as roots have developed)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Riccia fluitans
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (started with a small 2" area and has taken over 1/2 the tank surface)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Aponogeton crispus (6)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (that are mostly stem below water, leaves and flowers float on top)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Dwarf Lily (3)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (just dropped in those bulbs recently, they are just starting to sprout)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And a tiny bit of algae... on the back of the tank, and on the spout from the filter, and barely noticable on the leaves & stems of the plants. Nothing that detracts from the appearance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Lighting: 2 10 Watt compact fluorescent bulbs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    (screw-in type that fits incandescent fixtures; that is what kind hood I have)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    pH: 7.6
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    temp: 76 AM - 80 PM (range over course of day)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    KH: 120
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GH: 150
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nitrate: 40 ppm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nitrite: 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ammonia: 0
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Calculated CO2 < 4 ppm (supposed to be 10 - 15ppm for a planted tank?)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Water changes 10 - 15% weekly, after which I recheck my water quality levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Alternate bi-weekly between rinsing my filter cartridge and replacing it

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My well water is about 8.4 pH,(unless I run it out of the hot water side, then it is 7.8, because lots of the minerals end up in the water heater, so we have to replace our element every 6 months or so; but of course I can't put that hot water in my tank!) so 7.6 pH is really about the best I can do with my pH, even with the tannins from the driftwood. Not really anywhere to put peat into my filter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Any advice?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3586 From: paul helms Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    if it is going to be a reef tank, make sure you get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    good protein skimmer and proper lighting. most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mcorals need about 4 watts of light per gallon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Michelle in PDX <m_in_nepdx@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have just started with saltwater. I am currently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > doing a fishless cycle on a 29 gallon salt tank that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I plan to set up as a reef tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Michelle in PDX
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > From: paul helms <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > absolutely, i have a 135 gallon saltwater system and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > work withthem as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > paul
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > --- salt150g <salt150g@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > > tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3587 From: paul helms Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new babies!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    mollies and platties and sword can interbreed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I found three or four new babies in my molly and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > platy tank this morning.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Since there is only one male molly, and there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > haven't been any male platies or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > any baby platies in several months, I'm not sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > about the babies' species.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > They are either mollies, or they are platies that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the new Mickey Mouse had.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > They're brand new babies and they all appear to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the same type, so I can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > tell just based on size comparison like I did with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > the first set. If they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > platies, they definitely aren't red wag ... these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > are all white little buggers.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > There are either three live and one dead (I had a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hard time catching one and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > he darted between the edge of the net and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > aquarium glass), or there are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > four live. At any rate, I netted them and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > transferred them to the breeding box
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > with riccia floating in the top.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I don't think there are any more hiding in the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > because I lifted out the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > driftwood and the log decoration when I was on baby
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > search.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Right now they're happily hiding amongst the riccia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > in their little box. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > (Hey mom, did any of the riccia end up not getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > transferred to the pond??) I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > guess it's a good thing that I got the free sample
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > of tropical flakes from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Hikari recently, because it's time for me to crush
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > up some flakes for babies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > again.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I just wanted to share the news. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > my LiveJournal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3588 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Cichlid Tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- Jonathan Hartsoe <jhartsoe@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > afraid of him. Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > suggestions for good cichlids for a 55 gallon would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > be appreciated. Also

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Peacocks are and Electric Yellows are some of the more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    peaceful African Cichlids. The male Peacocks are very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    colorful and and come in a variety of colors.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    However, they don't typically show these colors until
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they mature so they often will look much different
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    from what they look like in your LFS down the line.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3589 From: Patrick Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: new babies!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          While it is possible for the mollies and platies and swordtails and guppies, and probably several of the other similar species can breed with each other, it is unlikely.  Just because you have a red wag doesn't mean its fry will be red wags.  If it was ever in a tank with a black platy, it could have a fry of any color.  Plus, they can continue having fry for at least 6 months after all males have been removed.  If I buy a livebearer, I get a female, wait for the fry, and raise them.  In my experience, the fry are still around long after the parents are dead.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I found three or four new babies in my molly and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      platy tank this morning. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Since there is only one male molly, and there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      haven't been any male platies or 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      any baby platies in several months, I'm not sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      about the babies' species.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      They are either mollies, or they are platies that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the new Mickey Mouse had. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      They're brand new babies and they all appear to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the same type, so I can't 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tell just based on size comparison like I did with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the first set. If they are 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      platies, they definitely aren't red wag ... these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      are all white little buggers.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3590 From: fishtankbabe Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, paul helms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <wtfmorlok@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > it's a little small, so make sure you stay on topof
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > it, and make sure you have excellent filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > including a good protein skimmer.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yeah, I know it's on the small side, but I'm going to start out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      verrrrrry slowwwwwwly. I'm going to let it cycle with just the live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      rock for about three months before I put any corals in. It will be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      six months to a year before I put any fish in. I have a Remora
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      skimmer, and the sump is going to double as a fuge for additional
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      nutrient export. That, and about 40 lbs each of live rock and sand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      will be my filter. :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3591 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: SNAILS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      H'lo Rod,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               There were only two snails in the little tank ( which I kept for preserving aquarium-plant prunings ), the other snail was foraging another snail-path, and I'm almost 100% sure it was the toxic effect/s of the Pothos. They came in to the little tank with plant-cuttings, and lived there for years, just the two . I was surprised they did'nt multiply, and that could have been because the 75 gallon tank they came from was going acidic, which eliminated my un-purchased, prolific snail population. The little tank had an alkaline PH.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             jOE p

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi, Joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      How about your other tank denizens? I think it's because pothos leaves are poisonous. Some of its toxic cousins include the dieffenbachias, aglaonemas and alocasias. The poison may be short-lasting, the snail could have died from direct ingestion of the leaf.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Rod

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      j.pascavage@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      H'lo,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In case someone remembers the snail of two I mentioned a couple or so emails back, I remembered the first so-called pest-snail died 'cause I placed a 'Pothos" leaf (a relative of Philodendron ) in the tank to root, or 'till I had time to see if it would root in a glass, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I found the snail was attracted to the leaf, but stopped his perennial foraging somewhat, and I later found him dead at the bottom of the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Joe P








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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3592 From: paul helms Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: new babies!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      it is more than possible for them to interbreed, it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      quite common. in fact aaron has brought many of his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in to the store.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > While it is possible for the mollies and platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > and swordtails and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > guppies, and probably several of the other similar
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > species can breed with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > each other, it is unlikely. Just because you have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > red wag doesn't mean
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > its fry will be red wags. If it was ever in a tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > with a black platy, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > could have a fry of any color. Plus, they can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > continue having fry for at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > least 6 months after all males have been removed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > If I buy a livebearer, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > get a female, wait for the fry, and raise them. In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > my experience, the fry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > are still around long after the parents are dead.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://groups.msn.com/TheAquariumGroup/thenitrogencycle.msnw
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > glolights, 2 neons and 3 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > raised guppy, 4 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > betta, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > inexperienced fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > banana plants, java ferns,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 30-60 power filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2�, pH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I found three or four new babies in my molly and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > platy tank this morning.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Since there is only one male molly, and there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > haven't been any male platies or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > any baby platies in several months, I'm not sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > about the babies' species.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > They are either mollies, or they are platies that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the new Mickey Mouse had.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > They're brand new babies and they all appear to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the same type, so I can't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > tell just based on size comparison like I did with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the first set. If they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > platies, they definitely aren't red wag ... these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > are all white little buggers.




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3593 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Poor neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      well I have a sad story. My husband really wanted neons so today I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      went to the pet store bought 3 neon tetras brought them home,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      floated them with the lights out. keep the lights off and put them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      in, my endlers had them on the ground pecking at them, so I tried to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      quickly get them out and put them in my 20 gallon which only has 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish 3 danios and one guppy, nope they where chasing and smashing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      them, one within seconds got stuck in the filter thing so after
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      chasing the danios for about 15 minutes I gave up and took out the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      neons i put them in a little one gallon by them selves and one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      already died. so much for endlers.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3594 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Opps I meant so much for neons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3595 From: freedombell2002 Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Its a 30 with a eclipse hood and we bought coral life actinic 2 - 20
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      watts light bulbs. And also a Power head, looking to put another
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      power head on the other side. But other then that nothing speical.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      10lbs of Live sand, 25 (plus some) pounds Live Rock. Just been adding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      slowly to it. Added the star polyps about the 4th week. A hand full
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of snails and crabs about every other week, could use more. We killed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a three spotted domino trying to cycle it. Now living in there are 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      blue chormis, fun fish. A few fun Hitch hikers, a purple urchin, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      serpert starfish, And also a couple seaslugs. But other then that it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      really hasn't been a bad deal (crossing fingers) Things are going
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pretty good. But a reef takes lots of 1st lots of money. (live rock
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cost 10$ a pound) And 2nd lots of time and patients. But I'm sure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you know that already. well good luck and let us know how its going.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sherrie.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "salt150g"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <salt150g@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > That looks nice what equip. are you running on that??? The tank I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > buying is running off an eclipse hood with retrofit kit lights,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > heater and powerhead. I'm not sure what watts the lights are yet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I figured if I add more live rock and an additional power head for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > good current and a protien skimmer then this tank should not have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > problems. The guys who owns it now only has about 5 lbs of live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      rock
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in it now. He has only owned it for about 3 weeks and he wants to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      set
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > his 65 gallon for reefs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "freedombell2002"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > <Kpribble@c...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > hello
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > I have 30 gal reef, have a look under photos then sherrie's.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > These were taken at 8 weeks. My reef is now 15 weeks. Need new
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > photos soon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Sherrie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Las vegas NV
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "salt150g"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > <salt150g@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > > Does anyone here mess with saltwater fish or reef tanks???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3596 From: Seti Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Over the last few weeks I've had several fish die of unknown causes; first, a danio went
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      missing a month ago, I never even found it, although I looked under decorations and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      plants the best I could. Then a couple of weeks later my rubbernose pleco was found
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      dead. At roughly the same time, several of my ghost shrimp died, too. That was about 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      weeks ago, and just now I found one of my julii corys dead (juliis are my favorites, I love
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      these guys, and corys in general). Water tests come out 0 ammonia and nitrites every time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I do a 15% water change every 2 weeks, it's a 30 gal planted with (now) 7 zebra danios, 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      julii corys, 5 albino corys and a ton of red ramshorns; there might be some ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      left, although I haven't seen any for some time. The dead fish didn't have any visible bodily
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      imairments; why would they all be dying like this? Is it something that happens
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sometimes? I've had the aquarium for only 3 months or so. Any advice/feedback/ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm starting to get worried, maybe I'm doing something wrong? Help!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3597 From: Seti Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: And a question on red ramshorns
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      While I'm here asking questions - does anyone know much about snails? I got a few red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ramshorns from a friend a few weeks ago, and now there's a ton of little baby snails. So far
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      they haven't harmed the plants, they absolutely love lettuce and zucchini I put in for them;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but if they continue to multiply like that, is there a reason to be concerned? I mean, will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      they eventually over-populate the tank? I like having them in there, it's just I wonder if it's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      really bad to have too many of them. I know I could get some loaches to control the snails,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      or simply kill them, but I'm feeling a bit sentimental about these guys, so I wouln't employ
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      such drastic measures unless I was sure that they were causing harm. How many snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      can a tank safely house? (I do scrape the eggs off of plant leaves if I see them.) Also: I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      somehow ended up with a few brown ramshorns in there, I think they came with some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      plants I got at the local tropical fish society auction; is it true that if you mix browns and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      reds, all you will soon get all browns, since red is recessive characteristic - I remember to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      have read it somewhere, but now I can't find it. Does anyone know that this is correct?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3598 From: Jason Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: 10 gallon suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I just set up a 10 gallon tank which is now cycling with 2 zebra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      danios from my community tank. I would like some suggestion as to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      what to put in there. I want something different. Maybe a Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and Cory cats or Ottos to eat algae? I don't know, I'm open to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      suggestions. There are two plants in it, a Java fern and something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (I forget he name) that I would describe as an evergreen bush.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There is also a piece of driftwood branch in there. It looked so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      nice without fish that I don't want to ruin it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      thanks for any input
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Jason
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3599 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Seti,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is'nt thorough, since I have'nt had experience with many varieties of fish, but I noticed you did'nt mention PH readings? Since your tank and company are only about three months old, could be something you could expect occasionally when buying fish. I often had fish-death now and then after buying new fish. Nothing radical, some of their company lived quite long, and bred. Did you forget to check PH and temperature? Is your variety adaptable to the same PH range?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Over the last few weeks I've had several fish die of unknown causes; first, a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > danio went
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > missing a month ago, I never even found it, although I looked under decorations
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > plants the best I could. Then a couple of weeks later my rubbernose pleco was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > found
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > dead. At roughly the same time, several of my ghost shrimp died, too. That was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > about 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > weeks ago, and just now I found one of my julii corys dead (juliis are my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > favorites, I love
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > these guys, and corys in general). Water tests come out 0 ammonia and nitrites
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > every time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I do a 15% water change every 2 weeks, it's a 30 gal planted with (now) 7 zebra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > danios, 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > julii corys, 5 albino corys and a ton of red ramshorns; there might be some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ghost shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > left, although I haven't seen any for some time. The dead fish didn't have any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > visible bodily
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > imairments; why would they all be dying like this? Is it something that happens
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sometimes? I've had the aquarium for only 3 months or so. Any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > advice/feedback/ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I'm starting to get worried, maybe I'm doing something wrong? Help!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3600 From: Seti Date: 7/16/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just checked the Ph, it's 7.4. The temp., however, was a bit higher than usual, 82 instead
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of the normal 78-79 which it usually is, maybe because it's been hot the last few days?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Could that have killed them? Usually the temp. stays pretty stable, but how can I keep it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cooler on hot days like these? Should I start making small daily water changes with cooler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      water? I'm worried now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~~Seti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > This is'nt thorough, since I have'nt had experience with many varieties of fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but I noticed you did'nt mention PH readings? Since your tank and company are only about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      three months old, could be something you could expect occasionally when buying fish. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      often had fish-death now and then after buying new fish. Nothing radical, some of their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      company lived quite long, and bred. Did you forget to check PH and temperature? Is your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      variety adaptable to the same PH range?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3601 From: Aaron Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: life kicks the (Fish) bucket
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi All,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The following story is an excerpt from the current:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      M. REED ENTERPRISES' MONTHLY PALAVER (#64 - 7/15/04)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To : "M. Reed Enterprises" <mreed@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject : Mike Reed's Monthly Palaver -- July 2004

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mike is one of our original members and a long time Aquarist that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      provides some of the best fish foods availble, including his newest
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      freeze-dried foods. These can be seen at -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.mreed.com/dryfoods/index.shtml - at the bottom of the page.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ------------------------------------------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      OK, so its not really "On Topic" so to speak, but I liked it and was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      curious as to how many of ya'll could relate to the cycle of life
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      experience w/ your pets and maybe share your stories especially when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you were kids and had your first pet (FISH) pass away, or maybe even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      watched your kids go thru the 'trama' of losing thier first pet/fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Have a great weekend.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Aaron

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      p.s. - my fish LOVE zucchini!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ===================================================================

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Take a walk on the wild side

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      BY DAVE BARRY


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Pets are good, because they teach children important lessons about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      life, the main one being that, sooner or later, life kicks the bucket.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      With me, it was sooner. When I was a boy, my dad, who worked in New
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      York City, would periodically bring home a turtle in a little plastic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank that had a little plastic island with a little plastic palm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tree, as is so often found in natural turtle habitats.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was excited about having a pet, and I'd give the turtle a fun pet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      name like Scooter. But my excitement was not shared by Scooter, who,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      despite residing in a tropical paradise, never did anything except
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mope around. Actually, he didn't even mope around: He moped in one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      place without moving, or even blinking, for days on end, displaying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      basically the same vital signs as an ashtray. Eventually I would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      realize -- it wasn't easy to tell -- that Scooter had passed on to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      that Big Pond in the Sky, and I'd bury him in the garden, where he'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      decompose and become food for the zucchini, which in turn would be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      eaten by my dad, who would in turn go to New York City, where,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      compelled by powerful instincts that even he did not understand, he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      would buy me another moping death turtle. And so the cycle of life
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      would repeat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I say all this to explain why I recently bought fish for my 4-year-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      old daughter, Sophie. My wife and I realized how badly she wanted an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      animal when she found a beetle on the patio and declared that it was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a pet, named Marvin. She put Marvin into a Tupperware container,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      where, under Sophie's loving care and feeding, he thrived for maybe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      nine seconds before expiring like a little six-legged parking meter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Fortunately, we have a beetle-intensive patio, so, unbeknownst to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sophie, we were able to replace Marvin with a parade of stand-ins of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      various sizes (''Look! Marvin has grown bigger!'' ``Wow! Today Marvin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      has grown smaller!''). But it gets to be tedious, going out early
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      every morning to wrangle patio beetles. So we decided to go with fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I had fish of my own, years ago, and it did not go well. They got
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      some disease like Mongolian Fin Rot, which left them basically just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      little pooping torsos. But I figured that today, with all the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      technological advances we have such as cellular phones
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and ''digital'' things and carbohydrate-free toothpaste, modern fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      would be more reliable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So we got an aquarium and prepared it with special water and special
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      gravel and special fake plants and a special scenic rock so the fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      would be intellectually stimulated and get into a decent college.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      When everything was ready I went to the aquarium store to buy fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      my only criteria being that they should be (1) hardy digital fish;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and (2) fish that looked a LOT like other fish, in case God forbid we
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      had to Marvinize them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is when I discovered how complex fish society is. I'd point to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      some colorful fish and say, ''What about these?'' And the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      guy would say, ''Those are great fish, but they do get aggressive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      when they mate.'' And I'd say, ''Like, how aggressive?'' And he'd
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      say, ``They'll kill all the other fish.''

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This was a recurring theme. I'd point to some fish, and the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      guy would inform me that these fish could become aggressive if there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      were fewer than four of them, or an odd number of them, or it was a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      month containing the letter ''R,'' or they heard the song Who Let the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Dogs Out. It turns out that an aquarium is a powder keg that can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      explode in deadly violence at any moment, just like the Middle East,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      or junior high school.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      TRUE STORY: A friend of mine named David Shor told me that his kids
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      had an aquarium containing a kind of fish called African cichlids,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and one of them died. So David went to the aquarium store and picked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      out a replacement African cichlid, but the aquarium guy said he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      couldn't buy that one, and David asked why, and the guy said:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ``Because that one is from a different lake.''

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But getting back to my daughter's fish: After much thought, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      aquarium guy was able to find me three totally pacifist fish --
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Barney Fife fish, fish so nonviolent that, in the wild, worms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      routinely beat them up and steal their lunch money. I brought these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      home, and so far they have not killed each other or died in any way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Plus, Sophie LOVES them. So everything is working out beautifully. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hope it stays that way, because I hate zucchini.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3602 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: 10 gallon suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Do you plan to keep the danios in the tank? If so it would be best to have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      then in a group of at least 5, they are less nippy of other fish that way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That would take up quite a bit of your tank space though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      A betta would be ok in a 10g as long as the flow from your filter isn't too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      strong, bettas tend to not like that. You could also try 2 or 3 female
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bettas. If they're kept in a community tank at the lfs you stand a good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      chance of them getting along well together.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Some people keep paradise fish in a 10g. They are quite tolerant of lower
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      temps. Or maybe a dwarf gourami.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Cories like to be in schools of at least 5 so for a 10g you'd have to look
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      for a smaller species. Otos don't technically school but like to have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      company of their own kind. It's also best to make sure you have algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      established in the tank before adding them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Another option would be a few dwarf puffers. You could also have otos in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      tank, they're one of the few fish the puffers won't bother.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Theresa


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: "Jason" <thewahlrus@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I just set up a 10 gallon tank which is now cycling with 2 zebra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > danios from my community tank. I would like some suggestion as to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > what to put in there. I want something different. Maybe a Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > and Cory cats or Ottos to eat algae? I don't know, I'm open to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > suggestions. There are two plants in it, a Java fern and something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > (I forget he name) that I would describe as an evergreen bush.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > There is also a piece of driftwood branch in there. It looked so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > nice without fish that I don't want to ruin it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3603 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Seti,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Greetings.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I suggest you bring the pH level down to around 7.0. Additionally, instead
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of 15% water changes every other week I believe you my want to increase that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to 25% water changes EVERY WEEK. Further, I would look carefully through out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the entire tank for any dead fishes. These will decay and contaminate the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In my opinion, for tropical fish the gradual water temperature change caused
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      by the weather should not really be a problem. I think that it is RAPID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      water temperature changes to watch out for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hope this helps.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Gary

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: "Seti" <Seti1st@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 2:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Help guys, fish is dying


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Just checked the Ph, it's 7.4. The temp., however, was a bit higher than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      usual, 82 instead
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > of the normal 78-79 which it usually is, maybe because it's been hot the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      last few days?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Could that have killed them? Usually the temp. stays pretty stable, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      how can I keep it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > cooler on hot days like these? Should I start making small daily water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      changes with cooler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > water? I'm worried now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > This is'nt thorough, since I have'nt had experience with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      many varieties of fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > but I noticed you did'nt mention PH readings? Since your tank and company
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      are only about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > three months old, could be something you could expect occasionally when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      buying fish. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > often had fish-death now and then after buying new fish. Nothing radical,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      some of their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > company lived quite long, and bred. Did you forget to check PH and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      temperature? Is your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > variety adaptable to the same PH range?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3604 From: Patrick Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Gary, why would you bring the pH to 7?  7.4 should be good for just about any fish out there.  Besides, the worst thing you can do to a sick tank is start messing with pH, it can only make things worse.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Seti, I suspect that the shrimp were killed by a ammonia/nitrite spike due to the fish dying.  It could happen in such a short time you wouldn't even know it happened some times.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3605 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Identify this fish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Looks to me to be in the geophagus family, juripari with color washed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        out maybe. Hope you post a new pic soon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3606 From: Seti Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The tap water Ph we have around here is 8.0, so it's already lower in the tank - I wonder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        why, I haven't done anything specifically to lower it; from everything I've read it seemed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that messing with the Ph is not a good idea. So I'm actually happy with the 7.4 reading. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        don't think that these fish deaths only occure after the water change. My last water change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        was on Sun., and that cory died yesterday. All the corys do seem pretty lethargic, usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        they're so active, always dashing around the tank or picking food off the bottom; but now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        they're just resting on the gravel, or tucked in the plants somewhere. I still wonder if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        temperature increase is to blame? I have a fan running to cool the tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ~~Seti

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Gary, why would you bring the pH to 7? 7.4 should be good for just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > about any fish out there. Besides, the worst thing you can do to a sick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > tank is start messing with pH, it can only make things worse.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Seti, I suspect that the shrimp were killed by a ammonia/nitrite spike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > due to the fish dying. It could happen in such a short time you wouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > even know it happened some times.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3607 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Seti,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           What is the temperature of the tank? Cooling with a fan does'nt mean you're adequately lowering temperature. If the tank is close to a brick or stone wall, the absorbed/stored radiation/heat is probably greater than the fans' capacity to cool,  unless you have A/C air directed at the fan, you're basically moving around warm/hot air. The fans apparent cooling effect on us is'nt the same as what's happening inside your tank.Corys' tend to breed if the water is cooler, after the period of general-average stable temperature. If the water is cooler, and not too high/low, they should be active at times, with the females depositing eggs on appropriate surfaces, and the males attending to the process. I was thinking you had a PH prob, or a normal die-off because of newly added fish, but if your Corys' are really lethargic, I can't imagine why. My Corys' became more active after a water-change, (because it's like opening a window after living in stale/indoor air to us).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The tap water Ph we have around here is 8.0, so it's already lower in the tank -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I wonder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > why, I haven't done anything specifically to lower it; from everything I've read
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > it seemed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that messing with the Ph is not a good idea. So I'm actually happy with the 7.4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reading. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > don't think that these fish deaths only occure after the water change. My last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > water change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > was on Sun., and that cory died yesterday. All the corys do seem pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > lethargic, usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they're so active, always dashing around the tank or picking food off the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bottom; but now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they're just resting on the gravel, or tucked in the plants somewhere. I still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wonder if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > temperature increase is to blame? I have a fan running to cool the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Gary, why would you bring the pH to 7? 7.4 should be good for just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > about any fish out there. Besides, the worst thing you can do to a sick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > tank is start messing with pH, it can only make things worse.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Seti, I suspect that the shrimp were killed by a ammonia/nitrite spike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > due to the fish dying. It could happen in such a short time you wouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > even know it happened some times.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3608 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Seti,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This is a PS to my previous letter. Corys don't swim around all the time. They can be seen to be more active if they don't sense you or the dog/cat is'nt around. Whenever I approached the tank they tended to go to their happy-place, unless they sensed I was feeding.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The tap water Ph we have around here is 8.0, so it's already lower in the tank -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I wonder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > why, I haven't done anything specifically to lower it; from everything I've read
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > it seemed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > that messing with the Ph is not a good idea. So I'm actually happy with the 7.4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > reading. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > don't think that these fish deaths only occure after the water change. My last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > water change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > was on Sun., and that cory died yesterday. All the corys do seem pretty
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > lethargic, usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they're so active, always dashing around the tank or picking food off the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > bottom; but now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > they're just resting on the gravel, or tucked in the plants somewhere. I still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wonder if the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > temperature increase is to blame? I have a fan running to cool the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Gary, why would you bring the pH to 7? 7.4 should be good for just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > about any fish out there. Besides, the worst thing you can do to a sick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > tank is start messing with pH, it can only make things worse.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Seti, I suspect that the shrimp were killed by a ammonia/nitrite spike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > due to the fish dying. It could happen in such a short time you wouldn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > even know it happened some times.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3609 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My panda and pygmy cories are like that. My 3 lined cories are always on the move though, too much lack of movement from them gets me worried :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         This is a PS to my previous letter. Corys don't swim around all the time. They can be seen to be more active if they don't sense you or the dog/cat is'nt around. Whenever I approached the tank they tended to go to their happy-place, unless they sensed I was feeding.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3610 From: audralee Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        rubbernose plecos like a lot of water circulation. I never had luck with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:23 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Help guys, fish is dying

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Seti,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Greetings.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I suggest you bring the pH level down to around 7.0. Additionally, instead
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        of 15% water changes every other week I believe you my want to increase that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        to 25% water changes EVERY WEEK. Further, I would look carefully through out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the entire tank for any dead fishes. These will decay and contaminate the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In my opinion, for tropical fish the gradual water temperature change caused
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        by the weather should not really be a problem. I think that it is RAPID
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        water temperature changes to watch out for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hope this helps.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Gary

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Seti" <Seti1st@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 2:56 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Help guys, fish is dying


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Just checked the Ph, it's 7.4. The temp., however, was a bit higher than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        usual, 82 instead
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > of the normal 78-79 which it usually is, maybe because it's been hot the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        last few days?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Could that have killed them? Usually the temp. stays pretty stable, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        how can I keep it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > cooler on hot days like these? Should I start making small daily water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        changes with cooler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > water? I'm worried now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >             Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >                 This is'nt thorough, since I have'nt had experience with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        many varieties of fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > but I noticed you did'nt mention PH readings? Since your tank and company
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        are only about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > three months old, could be something you could expect occasionally when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        buying fish. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > often had fish-death now and then after buying new fish. Nothing radical,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        some of their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > company lived quite long, and bred. Did you forget to check PH and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        temperature? Is your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > variety adaptable to the same PH range?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >                 Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3611 From: Seti Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well, the temperature usually is around 78-79F, but last night when I checked it it was at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        82-83, and today it's the same; it's been really hot in the last few days, they say the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        weather is going to get cooler, though. The albino corys are usually very active, they don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        even stick to the bottom that much but swim around the middle quite a bit - and right
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        now they're all just lying around, not even searching for food; this is why I'm worried. (The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        danios seem to be swimming around as usual.) I know the fan's probably not making a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        difference, but I have it on anyway to just move the air around, so I figured I might as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        put it near the tank. Also read that you can float plastic bags with ice in the water, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        run out of ice pretty quickly. I guess all I can really do is to wait and see if it gets cooler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        outside.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ~~Seti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > What is the temperature of the tank? Cooling with a fan does'nt mean you're
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        adequately lowering temperature. If the tank is close to a brick or stone wall, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        absorbed/stored radiation/heat is probably greater than the fans' capacity to cool, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        you have A/C air directed at the fan, you're basically moving around warm/hot air. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fans apparent cooling effect on us is'nt the same as what's happening inside your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        tank.Corys' tend to breed if the water is cooler, after the period of general-average stable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        temperature. If the water is cooler, and not too high/low, they should be active at times,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        with the females depositing eggs on appropriate surfaces, and the males attending to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        process. I was thinking you had a PH prob, or a normal die-off because of newly added
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        fish, but if your Corys' are really lethargic, I can't imagine why. My Corys' became more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        active after a water-change, (because it's like opening a window after living in stale/indoor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        air to us).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3612 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: driftwood question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Early i had posted about setting up a cichlid tank well i decided to go with a mainly severum setup. But i distinctly know the water here is hard. What im wondering is the best way to condition the water to be soft, My LFS recommended either using Malaysian driftwood,  black water conditioner, or using i think peat in the filter. given that these would both soften water and make conditions more natural. If i go with the driftwood can anyone suggest good place to order it mainly online. I'm not going to pay my LFS outrages prices. They are good for buying fish but only reseaching the equipment and accesories. Just so everyone knows my setup. Its a 55 gallon with emporer 400 filter  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3613 From: Patrick Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: driftwood question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You can get it for less than $10 from drsfostersmith.com plus the shipping (around 7, I think).  This might not be helpful if you can get the same stuff cheaper without shipping, but if you order other supplies at the same time it might save enough to cancel out the shipping charges. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I bought some of that driftwood through them.  I was made fun of for buying wood that doesn't float. :)  It sank well, but never turned my water brown.  Peat may be the way to go to make sure the water is softened well.  I am guessing you are going with South American cichlids, since Africans need hard water.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Early i had posted about setting up a cichlid tank well i decided to go with a mainly severum setup. But i distinctly know the water here is hard. What im wondering is the best way to condition the water to be soft, My LFS recommended either using Malaysian driftwood,  black water conditioner, or using i think peat in the filter. given that these would both soften water and make conditions more natural. If i go with the driftwood can anyone suggest good place to order it mainly online. I'm not going to pay my LFS outrages prices. They are good for buying fish but only reseaching the equipment and accesories. Just so everyone knows my setup. Its a 55 gallon with emporer 400 filter  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3614 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Seti,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How long have you had your Corys?  Could be they're settling-in. If you've had a camera recording your Corys' since the day you got them, you might notice they are about the same activity-wise, on the average. Higher temps could slow them down a bit. I don't think I've ever bought numbers of fish with out one or more dying soon, and the rest living into a long future.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Well, the temperature usually is around 78-79F, but last night when I checked it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it was at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 82-83, and today it's the same; it's been really hot in the last few days, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > say the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > weather is going to get cooler, though. The albino corys are usually very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > active, they don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > even stick to the bottom that much but swim around the middle quite a bit - and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > right
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > now they're all just lying around, not even searching for food; this is why I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > worried. (The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > danios seem to be swimming around as usual.) I know the fan's probably not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > making a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > difference, but I have it on anyway to just move the air around, so I figured I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > might as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > put it near the tank. Also read that you can float plastic bags with ice in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > water, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > run out of ice pretty quickly. I guess all I can really do is to wait and see if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it gets cooler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > outside.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > What is the temperature of the tank? Cooling with a fan does'nt mean you're
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > adequately lowering temperature. If the tank is close to a brick or stone wall,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > absorbed/stored radiation/heat is probably greater than the fans' capacity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > cool, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > you have A/C air directed at the fan, you're basically moving around warm/hot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > air. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fans apparent cooling effect on us is'nt the same as what's happening inside
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tank.Corys' tend to breed if the water is cooler, after the period of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > general-average stable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > temperature. If the water is cooler, and not too high/low, they should be active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > at times,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with the females depositing eggs on appropriate surfaces, and the males
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > attending to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > process. I was thinking you had a PH prob, or a normal die-off because of newly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > added
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish, but if your Corys' are really lethargic, I can't imagine why. My Corys'
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > became more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > active after a water-change, (because it's like opening a window after living in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > stale/indoor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > air to us).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3615 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Seti,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              If you have a PC Camera, set it to record fish activity while you're not around if you can.   Maybe you'll find they're more active than you think, even if they have slowed down because of the heat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Well, the temperature usually is around 78-79F, but last night when I checked it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it was at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > 82-83, and today it's the same; it's been really hot in the last few days, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > say the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > weather is going to get cooler, though. The albino corys are usually very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > active, they don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > even stick to the bottom that much but swim around the middle quite a bit - and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > right
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > now they're all just lying around, not even searching for food; this is why I'm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > worried. (The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > danios seem to be swimming around as usual.) I know the fan's probably not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > making a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > difference, but I have it on anyway to just move the air around, so I figured I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > might as well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > put it near the tank. Also read that you can float plastic bags with ice in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > water, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > run out of ice pretty quickly. I guess all I can really do is to wait and see if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > it gets cooler
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > outside.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > What is the temperature of the tank? Cooling with a fan does'nt mean you're
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > adequately lowering temperature. If the tank is close to a brick or stone wall,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > absorbed/stored radiation/heat is probably greater than the fans' capacity to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > cool, unless
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > you have A/C air directed at the fan, you're basically moving around warm/hot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > air. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fans apparent cooling effect on us is'nt the same as what's happening inside
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tank.Corys' tend to breed if the water is cooler, after the period of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > general-average stable
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > temperature. If the water is cooler, and not too high/low, they should be active
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > at times,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > with the females depositing eggs on appropriate surfaces, and the males
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > attending to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > process. I was thinking you had a PH prob, or a normal die-off because of newly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > added
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > fish, but if your Corys' are really lethargic, I can't imagine why. My Corys'
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > became more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > active after a water-change, (because it's like opening a window after living in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > stale/indoor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > air to us).
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3616 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Um Cultivo bem sucedido de Bananinha - Sequência (2)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Foi adicionada no fórum AquaBahia a segunda seqüência da matéria (Um cultivo bem sucedido de Nimphoides aquatica) realizada por Eduardo e Yuri.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Veja maiores detalhes no fórum:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          A matéria esta localizada na seção:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Se você não for um usuário registrado no fórum clique no link abaixo e realize seu registro, é fácil rápido e gratuito:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Atenciosamente,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Paulo Gatti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.aquabahia.com.br
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3617 From: Seti Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          One batch of corys I got about 2 months ago (juliis), and then got more just over a month
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ago (albinos).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          When I got the albinos, I was surprised by how active they seemed in comparison to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          juliis; at first I was even worried that something might be wrong, but then I got used to it;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they're always dashing about the tank. It's just the last couple of nights I hardly even seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          them; hope it cools down soon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ~~Seti

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > How long have you had your Corys? Could be they're settling-in. If you've had a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          camera recording your Corys' since the day you got them, you might notice they are about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the same activity-wise, on the average. Higher temps could slow them down a bit. I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          think I've ever bought numbers of fish with out one or more dying soon, and the rest living
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          into a long future.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3618 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/17/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Seti,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             I never had albinos' or ( I guess ) Julii, but had lots of Aeneus', and two kinds of black and white Corys' ( one of which could have been Julii ). The Aeneus' were always more active than the black and white Corys', but that could have been because there were'nt enough of them to school. The B&W's found a corner, or other spot and seemed to look into a corner or through the glass, and schooled with the Aeneus' around feedings, or when I  cleaned the tank.I would'nt expect your Corys to incessantly forage the bottom. They like to swim too, as you've mentioned about your Albinos.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > One batch of corys I got about 2 months ago (juliis), and then got more just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > over a month
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ago (albinos).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > When I got the albinos, I was surprised by how active they seemed in comparison
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > to the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > juliis; at first I was even worried that something might be wrong, but then I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > got used to it;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > they're always dashing about the tank. It's just the last couple of nights I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > hardly even seen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > them; hope it cools down soon.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > How long have you had your Corys? Could be they're settling-in. If you've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > had a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > camera recording your Corys' since the day you got them, you might notice they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > are about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > the same activity-wise, on the average. Higher temps could slow them down a bit.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > think I've ever bought numbers of fish with out one or more dying soon, and the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > rest living
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > into a long future.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3619 From: Seti Date: 7/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There's an albino variety of Aeneus, which is what I have:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.scotcat.com/callichthyidae/aeneus_albino.htm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          They're really pretty. And juliis are just stunning, I think:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/cor_jul.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (Does this look like the one you used to have?) They are kinda reclusive, keep to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          themselves, always hanging out together - I had 4 of them, but one died last night. :(

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ~~Seti

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I never had albinos' or ( I guess ) Julii, but had lots of Aeneus', and two kinds of black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and white Corys' ( one of which could have been Julii ). The Aeneus' were always more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          active than the black and white Corys', but that could have been because there were'nt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          enough of them to school. The B&W's found a corner, or other spot and seemed to look
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          into a corner or through the glass, and schooled with the Aeneus' around feedings, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          when I cleaned the tank.I would'nt expect your Corys to incessantly forage the bottom.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          They like to swim too, as you've mentioned about your Albinos.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3620 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Help guys, fish is dying

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Seti,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Could have been Juliis', your description of behaviour applies. Gave my last tank away within the last month. Gave the Corys', the B&W's, Ottos' and a few Chinese algae-eaters to a LFS. There atre a few pictures of my tank in Yahoo, if you click on my nickname, and go to my Yahoo-profile, there's a link to my 'homepage'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------------- Original message --------------

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > There's an albino variety of Aeneus, which is what I have:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.scotcat.com/callichthyidae/aeneus_albino.htm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > They're really pretty. And juliis are just stunning, I think:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/cor_jul.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > (Does this look like the one you used to have?) They are kinda reclusive, keep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > themselves, always hanging out together - I had 4 of them, but one died last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > night. :(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, j.pascavage@c... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Seti,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > I never had albinos' or ( I guess ) Julii, but had lots of Aeneus', and two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > kinds of black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > and white Corys' ( one of which could have been Julii ). The Aeneus' were always
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > active than the black and white Corys', but that could have been because there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > were'nt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > enough of them to school. The B&W's found a corner, or other spot and seemed to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > look
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > into a corner or through the glass, and schooled with the Aeneus' around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > feedings, or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > when I cleaned the tank.I would'nt expect your Corys to incessantly forage the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > bottom.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > They like to swim too, as you've mentioned about your Albinos.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > > Joe P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3621 From: T. Lee Date: 7/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: New Member
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hey there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've had my three foot tropical fish tank for about 18 months, now.  Occupants are:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          6 sailfin mollies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          7 harlequin rasboras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 black widow tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3 bronze corydoras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 brislenosed catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 siamese algae eater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Soon, my mother will be getting a four foot tank, and I am going to take the opportunity to restart my tank, as it has been pretty unsuccessful.  By restart, I want to keep all those fish bar the bristlenoses (my mother wants them, especially as they breed).  Most of my plants have died, and only two now stand.  Though the fish in my tank now are healthy and free of problems, I have had several problems in the past.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The most upsetting to me is that I seem to kill off corydoras that aren't the bronze or albino type.  I love the corydoras-es and really want some in my tank, and can't understand why I can't sustain them when I have other corydoras right by.  Panda corydoras and hastastus (spelling?) corydoras are the types I speak of, which I have tried and failed at keeping.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Also, my black widows seem to get real 'beat up' every now and then and die.  I have had 10 black widows in my tank, though a maximum of six at a time.  The seven which have died all died from the same symptoms.  I think the black widows may attack each other?  Though I'm not really sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Anyway... I've joined this list to hopefully help me make my tank more successful next time around.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -Lee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3622 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Back to undecided
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I decided to test the water in my new 55 gal just to see what I needed to do to get it ready for severums. Well after testing think i may go back to african cichlids. Here are the results pH 8.0, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, GH 13. Tap water at my house gives the same results so looking at it from ease of maintenance Africans would be easier  to maintain as my water conditions are in their range from start. Go figure
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3623 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Starting Right with Aquariums, Part III
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Last week we were at the LFS purchasing our equipment. I sort of glossed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          over everything else but the aquarium and stand, and feel I should take a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          step back and look at some of the other equipment that is needed for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          successful experience.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am going to try to cover filtration fairly quickly, but it is a subject
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that is very complex and easily given to error when spoken of in rather
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          simple quick turns. There is a very good book that covers filtration and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water quality that I have mentioned before on this list. It is currently out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          of print, but copies can be found by doing a search of used book sites. The
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          title is _Fish and Invertebrate Culture, Second Edition_ by Stephen Spotte.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ISBN 0-471-02306-X. A word of warning about this book, however. You will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have to have at least an understanding of high school chemistry to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          understand the book, and even then, it is a bit of a tough read.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There are three types of filtration: biological, chemical, and mechanical.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Mechanical is the simplest to understand and implement. It simply removes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          any particles that may be in the fluid. If you have a forced air system to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          heat and/or cool your house, you are familiar with this principle. The air
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (a fluid, by the way) moves through a filter prior to being released into
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          your living area. When you change the filter, it is dirty from the stuff it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          has removed from the air. With aquariums it is similar. You need something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          to move the water through a layer of material that water can pass through,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but particulates cannot. In the case of a box filter (bubble-up), air is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          used to move the water, and filter floss is generally the media of choice.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As the media picks up the larger particulate matter, smaller and smaller
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          particles are captured until the water can no longer pass through the media.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          With hang off the back filters (HOB), a sponge like material is often used,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and with a canister filter, it is again usually filter floss. To really
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          spiff up the clarity of the water--removing the smallest possible particles,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a diatom filter can be used. With HOB and canister filters, a pump is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          generally used to move the water. The same with diatom filters, whose use is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          recommended to be limited to an occasional cleaning.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Chemical filtration is where things begin to get complex. It is used to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          remove various substances from the water. If you have driftwood in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          aquarium, it may load the water with tannins (the same if you use peat to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          soften water), giving the water a brownish cast. Chemical filtration can be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          used to remove the tannins. Ammonia can be removed via chemical filtration,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          as well as a lot of other nasties that may occur in your aquarium. The most
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          efficient chemical filtration is to have water flow over the media of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          choice, but chemical filtration can be accomplished, albeit slower, by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          simply introducing the media into the water column (the water in your tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and anything attached). Chemical filtration can be used to remove
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          medications from the water after treatment of fish, and it is dangerous to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          use chemical filtration while treating fish, as it will begin to remove the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          medication before the medication has had time to work its magic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The most common media for chemical filtration is activated carbon. There is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          media out there that is designed for specific purposes to remove specific
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          compounds or elements from the water as well. The big problem with activated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          carbon is that once it has reached the end of its useful life, it starts to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          add compound back into the water column, and these may well be a combination
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          of the compounds it has been removing. There is no really good way to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          determine when activated carbon has reached the end of its useful life. That
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          depends on the specific product (there are a few different ways to make
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          activated carbon) and the amount of the compounds that it will remove in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water column. There is no good way to re-activate the carbon once it has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          been used, though you may often see "recipes" that claim to do so. Also,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          activated carbon can remove the stuff you want to have in the tank--say
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          elements placed in the tank to feed your live plants. This is why you may
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          see people who do not recommend chemical filtration, except in certain
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          specific instances. I am one of those people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Finally, we have biological filtration, probably the most important type of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          filtration. Biological filtration will break down ammonia that is produced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          as a natural by-product of your fish, into nitrite and then into nitrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Ammonia and nitrite are harmful to your fish in small concentrations.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Whether nitrate is harmful or not to freshwater fish is a much debated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          topic, but in large concentrations, it can be. The process of converting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate is done by bacteria colonies in your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          water column. The term cycling a tank refers to the establishment of these
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          colonies of bacteria. These bacteria will establish themselves on any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          available surface in the water column and do their thing in the presence of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the appropriate compounds. When we establish a tank, however, we try to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          provide a home for these fellows where they can concentrate and be provided
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          a steady flow of water from which to get the nitrogenous compounds they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          need.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          One method, that has both adherents and detractors, is the undergravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          filter (UGF). Water is moved through the substrate of the aquarium, which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          provides both mechanical and biological filtration. some will use power
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          heads on the UGF tubes to move water down under the UGF and up through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          substrate (known as a reverse UGF or RUGF). If you are using an HOB type
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          filter, using another sponge behind the one used for mechanical filtration
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          can provide adequate media for the bacteria to grow. Some HOB filters
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          provide what is called a biowheel to provide a bed for the bacteria to grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          on. In a canister filter, a layer of media is provided for the bacteria to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          grow. You can also get biowheels designed for the return of a canister
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          filter. Real fanatics may provide a trickle filter for biological
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          filtration, particularly with marine aquaria. The important thing to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          remember is that a good biological filter needs food and oxygen to stay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          healthy and function efficiently.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Probably the best way to cycle your tank is with a "fishless cycle". This is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          achieved by adding enough ammonia to the tank to bring the level to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          approximately 5 ppm as measured on your test kit. You need to use ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that has no additives, as is often found in grocery store brands, but you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          should be able to find an ammonia in the grocery store that will fill the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bill. Record the number of drops used to reach the 5 ppm level and add that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amount each day until the nitrites spike, and then cut back to half the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amount of ammonia you were adding. Once the nitrites have gone down, you can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          do a large (50% or more) water change to remove excess nitrates, and add
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          More next time. As usual, any questions, feel free to ask. I'll get back to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you as soon as I can.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3624 From: Seti Date: 7/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Starting Right with Aquariums, Part III
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Note on fishless cycling:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The first tank I set up I didn't have to cycle at all since I bought an established tank that I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          simply had to move to my place; everything came with it sans fish and water. Just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          recently, I set up a second tank "from scratch", and went with the fishless cycle; however,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          instead of adding actual ammonia, I just started adding fish flakes. I tested the water every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          few days, and within the last three weeks I saw first the ammonia spike, then the nitrite
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          spike - and the last time I tested, ammonia and nitrite were both 0, and nitrates were at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          about 5.0 ppm. I guess, the tank has cycled successfully, and I should be adding fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          pretty soon - but I haven't decided what to add yet, still thinking about it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3625 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 7/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: OFF TOPIC Fwd: Aquatic-Plants Digest FREE TO GOOD HOME
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            my name is edith and i have kept aquariums for 20 years, since my children were small and we won 2 goldfish at the local fair.  Well, needless to say, my hobby has grown substantially since that time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Anyway, i forwarded this post, if anyone is interested,  that is in the calif. area this might be a good time to pick up some free fish and aquariums. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            good to be here!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            edith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3626 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/18/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Fwd: Aquatic-Plants Digest FRE...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            i sure hope you find a lovely home.. if i was in your area i would love to have them... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3627 From: harryfisherman Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Is any one here keeping either one or both of these species. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            interested in sources and breeding info. Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Harry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3628 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Lake Malawi Cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Which species of the malawian africans would do the best together in a 55 gallon. I've been looking at the electric yellow and electric blue, as well as the various peacock's. Would they be okay together, If not what would work well with the electrics. Also what type of catfish would do well with them in the confines of a 55. Thanks for any info 



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3629 From: T. Lee Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Dark Patches on Caudal Fin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            One of my male sailfin mollies has dark patches/splodges on the outer edge of his caudal fin.  I don't know if he has had this ever since I have had him - I only got him a week or two ago. This male is picked on by another sailfin in the tank quite a bit, not constantly, but frequently.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've uploaded a diagram to better explain.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [All Albums  | Photo Albums > FISHblackonfins]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hopefully someone can tell me whether this is 'bad' or not, and if it is, what I can do about it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 - Lee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3630 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            harry,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are you talking about Betta's - the siamese fighting fish, with the long flowing fins?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            what do you need to know about danio's?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            edith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3631 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Lol Edith,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Badis badis is a different species not a betta. Dario Dario is also not danio.. Just search on google and you will know what I mean.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know Harry has been searching for these and info on these for a long time.. I know this from other lists to which we both are members of. Very beautiful fish and small I must say. Never kept them though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: EDITHAN1@... [mailto:EDITHAN1@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: 19 July 2004 15:32
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Badis Badis/Dario Dario.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            harry,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            are you talking about Betta's - the siamese fighting fish, with the long flowing fins?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            what do you need to know about danio's?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            edith



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3632 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Lake Malawi Cichlids

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jon,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The electric yellow you mean by Labidochromis species? Electric blue by pseudotropheus? Both these are Mbunas.. a separate group of malawis that are more aggressive then the standard haps or peacocks/aulonacaras… In general I would have thought that mixing mbunas with malawis would be trouble as mbunas are really too aggressive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://malawicichlids.com/index.htm should be able to help you out with basic information.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I am not a Malawi/mbuna keeper so can only suggest till here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: Jonathan Hartsoe [mailto:jhartsoe@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: 19 July 2004 15:41
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Lake Malawi Cichlids

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Which species of the malawian africans would do the best together in a 55 gallon. I've been looking at the electric yellow and electric blue, as well as the various peacock's. Would they be okay together, If not what would work well with the electrics. Also what type of catfish would do well with them in the confines of a 55. Thanks for any info 



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3633 From: Todd Fields Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Lake Malawi Cichlids
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            --- Jonathan Hartsoe <jhartsoe@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Which species of the malawian africans would do the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > best together in a 55
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > gallon. I've been looking at the electric yellow and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > electric blue, as well

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Unlike the Electric Yellow, I believe the Electric
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Blue is quite aggressive.



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3634 From: Patrick Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  badis Badis and dario Dario are two species of fish.  That is all I know about them.  I have never seen either of them.  A google search for "badis badis" came up with several good pages, but "dario dario" was a little less successful.  This link is about breeding badis.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ____________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3635 From: harry perry Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.To Edith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Dear Edith,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Badis Badis is a species by itself. Dario Dario was once called Badis bengalensis but was reclassified into it's own species.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Harry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              EDITHAN1@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              harry,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              are you talking about Betta's - the siamese fighting fish, with the long flowing fins?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              what do you need to know about danio's?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              edith


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3636 From: harry perry Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario DarioTo Patrick.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thank you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Harry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  badis Badis and dario Dario are two species of fish.  That is all I know about them.  I have never seen either of them.  A google search for "badis badis" came up with several good pages, but "dario dario" was a little less successful.  This link is about breeding badis.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2�, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3637 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              so sorry,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sometimes i think some can't spell and other times i can't read as well anymore.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              edith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3638 From: EDITHAN1@AOL.COM Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Dark Patches on Caudal Fin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Lee,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How old/large are your sailfins?  If purchased as juveniles then they will still be developing their color marking.  What size tank do you keep them in?  Did you buy them together?  How many females are in the tank with them?  I usually keep 3 females to every 1 male of livebearers in my tanks, because the males dont do much other than fight w/ other males and impregnate the females.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              edith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3639 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello, new member here and new to the world of aquariums. I have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              10-gallon tank set up for tropical fish (since July 3rd), I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              clown loaches, 2 leopard danios, 2 marble mollies, 2 gold swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and one alge eater...no live plants yet. I know I may have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              populated too much too soon, but all seems well so far.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Iv been feeding them a pinch of tetra flakes in the morning and one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              in the evening (sometimes I substitute with frozen bloodworms). Two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Petco employees told me to feed them every other day, not twoce a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              day. Is this right? Iv read to feed tehm twice a day, which is why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Iv been doing it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Any help would be great, as I don't want to over or under feed my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish. Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3640 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Hi CD,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     I have 4 community tanks and I feed them every other day and give them bloodworms once or twice a week as a treat.... at first I was feeding them twice a day and could never keep my water clear. So I asked the owner of our local fish store how often he feeds and he feeds just every other day.  It made a huge difference in my tank conditions and the fish do fine... I do however miss feeding them more often!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Kelly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: 07/19/04 16:54:11
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello, new member here and new to the world of aquariums.  I have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              10-gallon tank set up for tropical fish (since July 3rd), I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              clown loaches, 2 leopard danios, 2 marble mollies, 2 gold swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and one alge eater...no live plants yet.  I know I may have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              populated too much too soon, but all seems well so far.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Iv been feeding them a pinch of tetra flakes in the morning and one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              in the evening (sometimes I substitute with frozen bloodworms).  Two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Petco employees told me to feed them every other day, not twoce a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              day.  Is this right?  Iv read to feed tehm twice a day, which is why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Iv been doing it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Any help would be great, as I don't want to over or under feed my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fish.  Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CD




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3641 From: T. Lee Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Dark Patches on Caudal Fin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Edith,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              When I inquired about their age, the shop told me 'about six months' and that they'd get 'double the size' they are now. The male I am talking about is grey/silver/white colour (not sure how to describe it) and is this colour solidly - so this is why I am suspicious of these markings, as he has no other black markings on him.  I have a 3 foot tank and bought them all together.  I wanted to get 1:3 males:females, but all fish stores around here will only sell sailfins in pairs. So I have 1:1 in my tank, unfortunately. However, my males seem more interested in the other males (and my male guppy) than the females.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Lee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 1:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Dark Patches on Caudal Fin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Lee,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How old/large are your sailfins?  If purchased as juveniles then they will still be developing their color marking.  What size tank do you keep them in?  Did you buy them together?  How many females are in the tank with them?  I usually keep 3 females to every 1 male of livebearers in my tanks, because the males dont do much other than fight w/ other males and impregnate the females.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              edith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3642 From: utacutie Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Bleeding gills?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I was looking at my 3 gold danios, and one seems to have a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              red around their gills and a little whitish spot on top of his head.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Also, one kinda stays at the bottom of the tank, especially when the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              lights are off. I assume this is from ammonia/nitrite (my tank in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              still cycling). I am worried that the fish are suffering. My tank is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              10g, it has 1.5 ammonia and .25 nitrite. Please let me know what you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              think and what I need to do!! Thank you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3643 From: Patrick Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     The way I feed is completely random.  Sometimes (very rarely) twice a day, usually once a day, skip a day every week, and go several days when I forget. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When you go get plants, drop off the loaches, algae eater, and danios.  Clown loaches will get to 10 inches, maybe a foot if properly cared for.  Same is true for most algae eaters, depending on species.  Be prepared to lose most or all of them within 4 weeks if you don't (trust me, I did something similar with my first tank).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hello, new member here and new to the world of aquariums.  I have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                10-gallon tank set up for tropical fish (since July 3rd), I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                clown loaches, 2 leopard danios, 2 marble mollies, 2 gold swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and one alge eater...no live plants yet.  I know I may have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                populated too much too soon, but all seems well so far.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Iv been feeding them a pinch of tetra flakes in the morning and one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                in the evening (sometimes I substitute with frozen bloodworms).  Two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Petco employees told me to feed them every other day, not twoce a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                day.  Is this right?  Iv read to feed tehm twice a day, which is why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Iv been doing it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Any help would be great, as I don't want to over or under feed my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish.  Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3644 From: Cyndy Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Hospital tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a neon that has a messed up swim bladder. He has had problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                off and on with this for over a month. At first I thought he was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                constipated and switched the food and did the pea for fiber and that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                seemed to help. Then I noticed he has a bump on his side that kind
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of makes him 'crooked' to one side and that has really made swimming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                for him hard. But he is hanging in there. Last night I saw that he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                was stuck to the filter cage and I turned it off for the night (not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                sure how bad that is) to give him a chance to come back from this but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                he looked so bad this morning that I turned the filter back on and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thought he would be gone when I came back from work. Well he was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                stuck to the filter again, but still hanging on. Should I euthanize
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                him? I don't want to be cruel, but it seems like he is fighting so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                hard to stay alive. I don't have another tank that is filtered and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ready for an inhabitant. Can I put a neon in an unfiltered tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                medicate him? Should I medicate the entire tank and would it even do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                any good? Wouldn't medicating the other fish when they don't need it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                be harmful?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3645 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Dave Barry's Pet Project or Dave Barry Does Fish!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In case you missed it, Dave Barry's column this Sunday in the Washington
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Post gives us his unique view on setting up an aquarium. This is the link to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the Post's column (good for a bit less than two weeks):
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://tinyurl.com/6s5dc. The Washington Post site requires registration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The Miami Herald will have it up on the 25th of the month, and it will stay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                there for a while longer. No registration for that site, and this is the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                link to get you there: http://tinyurl.com/1es9. Look for the column labeled
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Pet Project.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3646 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi, thanks for the tips, but I'm confused, should I drop off the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish you mentioned back to the fish store because they will die in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the tank I have them in?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > The way I feed is completely random. Sometimes (very rarely)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                twice a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > day, usually once a day, skip a day every week, and go several
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                days when I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > forget.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > When you go get plants, drop off the loaches, algae eater, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                danios.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Clown loaches will get to 10 inches, maybe a foot if properly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cared for.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Same is true for most algae eaters, depending on species. Be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                prepared to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > lose most or all of them within 4 weeks if you don't (trust me, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > something similar with my first tank).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://americanfishguy.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                4 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                java ferns,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                filter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hello, new member here and new to the world of aquariums. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 10-gallon tank set up for tropical fish (since July 3rd), I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > clown loaches, 2 leopard danios, 2 marble mollies, 2 gold
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and one alge eater...no live plants yet. I know I may have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > populated too much too soon, but all seems well so far.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Iv been feeding them a pinch of tetra flakes in the morning and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > in the evening (sometimes I substitute with frozen bloodworms).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Petco employees told me to feed them every other day, not twoce a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > day. Is this right? Iv read to feed tehm twice a day, which is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Iv been doing it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Any help would be great, as I don't want to over or under feed my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish. Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > CD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3647 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, and my water is kinda cloudy - I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                put less gravel in there which should help too. Thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CD

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~~Kelly~~"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hi CD,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I have 4 community tanks and I feed them every other day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and give
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > them bloodworms once or twice a week as a treat.... at first I was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > them twice a day and could never keep my water clear. So I asked
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the owner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > of our local fish store how often he feeds and he feeds just every
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                other day
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > It made a huge difference in my tank conditions and the fish do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fine... I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > do however miss feeding them more often!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Kelly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Date: 07/19/04 16:54:11
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hello, new member here and new to the world of aquariums. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 10-gallon tank set up for tropical fish (since July 3rd), I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > clown loaches, 2 leopard danios, 2 marble mollies, 2 gold
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and one alge eater...no live plants yet. I know I may have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > populated too much too soon, but all seems well so far.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Iv been feeding them a pinch of tetra flakes in the morning and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > in the evening (sometimes I substitute with frozen bloodworms).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Petco employees told me to feed them every other day, not twoce a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > day. Is this right? Iv read to feed tehm twice a day, which is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Iv been doing it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Any help would be great, as I don't want to over or under feed my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish. Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > CD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3648 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Bleeding gills?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Step up your water changes. I personally do not add
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Salt to my tank water, but have read many doing so and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                recommending the same. So the std is 1Tsp for 10Gal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                So see if this helps...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- utacutie <utacutie@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I was looking at my 3 gold danios, and one seems to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > have a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > red around their gills and a little whitish spot on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > top of his head.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Also, one kinda stays at the bottom of the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > especially when the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > lights are off. I assume this is from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ammonia/nitrite (my tank in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > still cycling). I am worried that the fish are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > suffering. My tank is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 10g, it has 1.5 ammonia and .25 nitrite. Please let
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > me know what you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > think and what I need to do!! Thank you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                =====




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo!? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                stop by and see ~ membership is free!









                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3649 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Badis Badis/Dario Dario.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For _Dario dario_ take a look at http:/www.fishbase.org and enter Dario in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the genus field. This will give you mainly scientific information about the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fish, but it is a start.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Care and breeding are as for _Badis badis_.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: harryfisherman [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:49 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Badis Badis/Dario Dario.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Is any one here keeping either one or both of these species. I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                interested in sources and breeding info. Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Harry









                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3650 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: 10 gallon suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 7/17/2004 1:23:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thewahlrus@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I would like some suggestion as to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                what to put in there.  I want something different.  Maybe a Betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and Cory cats or Ottos to eat algae?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm assuming that if the zebra danios survive the cycling process, you were planning on putting them back into your community tank?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                A betta would be thrilled in a 10 gallon tank, but definitely wait until cycling is done with. Depending on whether the individual betta has been around other fish (or has spent his entire life alone in one of those horrible cups) he may get along with some other fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Some recommended fish to cohabitate with bettas are : tetras, danios, angelfish, livebearers, rasboras, loaches, plecos, and catfish. (source : LiveAquaria.com)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I *think* Angelfish get too big for a 10 gallon, and am pretty sure that a pleco would be too big.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Let us know what you decide to go with! :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3651 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                HI CD n Welcome !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yes as u have rightly mentioned u have over populated
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ur tank too fast..!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But frequent water changes will keep the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                parameters up..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I feed twice a day and do keep them fasting once a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                week. But treat them with Frozen blood worms the next
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If u added some plants it would look attractive as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                well and compete with algae ...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- robdar4609 <robdar4609@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hello, new member here and new to the world of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > aquariums. I have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 10-gallon tank set up for tropical fish (since July
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 3rd), I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > clown loaches, 2 leopard danios, 2 marble mollies, 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > gold swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > and one alge eater...no live plants yet. I know I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > may have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > populated too much too soon, but all seems well so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > far.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Iv been feeding them a pinch of tetra flakes in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > morning and one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > in the evening (sometimes I substitute with frozen
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > bloodworms). Two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Petco employees told me to feed them every other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > day, not twoce a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > day. Is this right? Iv read to feed tehm twice a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > day, which is why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Iv been doing it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Any help would be great, as I don't want to over or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > under feed my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish. Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > CD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                =====




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo!? ~ I've got a group for you!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3652 From: salt150g Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "No Dice" The guy changed his mind on selling me the tank, he said he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                found some salt traces in a spot where he resealed the tank. Now I'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have to wait a little longer my wife wants to convert our 150 gallon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to a salty but she wants fish like triggers, eels, and lions and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                want a reef set-up. Either way its going to be a while so I can get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the equiptment for it. I have ran this tank with freshwater for about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2 years with 2 fluval 404 and 2 power heads. My LFS is telling me to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                buy a wet-dry, skimmer, pump, and upgrade my lights. I have shopped
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                around and added it up and this is going to total up to more then the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tank cost me brand new. Any suggestions on some price savers?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3653 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Some Useful Tips - Courtesy Other Group of which i am a member !
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                These are great tips Dawn, it's a shame that not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                everyone working in pet stores has this kind of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                dedication or ethics, too often you see medications
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                given out like candy in pet stores, seems like there's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a pill for every problem out there...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'd also like to add a couple tips to the great
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                testing advice you have given us here:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - When transporting water to be tested, the more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                volume you carry the more stable it will remain. Avoid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                agitating the water sample as this will also speed up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                changes in water chemistry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - When using test kits that require you to count drops
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                until a color change occurs, greater accuracy can be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                acchieved by using larger volumes of sample water. For
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                example, if you double the required water sample, each
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                drop will indicate half the ppm it normally
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                indicates when used as directed. KH for example is one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that I measure using twice the water sample, this way
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have 0.5ppm accuracy per drop instead of 1ppm,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                making CO2 calculations a little more precise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Using a larger water sample can also help when using
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                regular test kits that have a color chart, making the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                color easier to read in some cases.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - When testing PH, don't shake the sample, just tip it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                upside down a couple times gently. Shaking it causes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gas exchange between the water and air that is inside
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the test vile which will alter PH of the water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - When collecting water to be tested, try to use a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                pipette, long syringe or similar device and never take
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a water sample from the surface. Try to get the water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                at least an inch below the surface and possibly where
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                there is some water movement.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - Use a syringe or oral medicine syringe to accurately
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                measure how much water you are about to test. This is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                far more accurate than the line marked around the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                glass vials that come in cheap test kits.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - Immediately replace the cap on your test kit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                solutions as oxygen will spoil many of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - Take readings immediately or as otherwise stated in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the instructions. Some reactions continue to occur and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                resulting color will change over time giving you false
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                readings.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - If you run into a problem or find unexplainable test
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                results or have any doubt, take a sample to your LFS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                for a second reading. Test kits do expire, at times
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                prematurely or even on the store shelves. Fish stores
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                do a lot of testing so their test kits are usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                fresh. It's always good to know your test kits, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                method of reading them, are good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - Most liquid test kits are more accurate than strips.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If using strips with multiple tests on the same strip,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                use an eye dropper to place water on each test pad.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Dipping the strip in the tank can cause chemicals from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                one pad to drip down to the next, possibly effecting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                test results.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                =====




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3654 From: sunil kamath Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Hospital tank?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                HI Cyndy,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sorry to note about ur fish loss.. But its always
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                advisable to have a hospital tank running... or a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                sponge filter running in ur main tank. With this if u
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                need a hospital tank u can have it set up right away
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                but just adding 50% of the tank water and 50% of fresh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                treated tap water and this sponge filter..!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hope this helps...SuNnY !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- Cyndy <cynthiamckee@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I have a neon that has a messed up swim bladder. He
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > has had problems
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > off and on with this for over a month. At first I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > thought he was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > constipated and switched the food and did the pea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > for fiber and that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > seemed to help. Then I noticed he has a bump on his
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > side that kind
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > of makes him 'crooked' to one side and that has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > really made swimming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > for him hard. But he is hanging in there. Last
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > night I saw that he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > was stuck to the filter cage and I turned it off for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the night (not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > sure how bad that is) to give him a chance to come
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > back from this but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > he looked so bad this morning that I turned the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > filter back on and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > thought he would be gone when I came back from work.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Well he was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > stuck to the filter again, but still hanging on.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Should I euthanize
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > him? I don't want to be cruel, but it seems like he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > is fighting so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > hard to stay alive. I don't have another tank that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > is filtered and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ready for an inhabitant. Can I put a neon in an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > unfiltered tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > medicate him? Should I medicate the entire tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > would it even do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > any good? Wouldn't medicating the other fish when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > they don't need it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > be harmful?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ~Cyndy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                =====




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3655 From: Patrick Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yeah, they will die if you don't return them to the store.  The store should give you some kind of credit.  If you have to exchange, exchange for Aquarium Fish or TFH magazine.  The problem isn't aggression, the tank itself, or water changes needing to be more, it is pure ammonia.  Click that link in my signature and learn about the cycle.  Those fish are too many for a new tank and the ammonia will build up quickly, killing them by burning their gills.  Not a good thing. :(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi, thanks for the tips, but I'm confused, should I drop off the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fish you mentioned back to the fish store because they will die in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the tank I have them in?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3656 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have a 29 gallon tank with 6 cherry barbs and 5 albino Cory cats. I have another tank with 15 zebra danios and 1 algae eater. Can I put the danios and algae eater in the 29 gallon or will that over crowd it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3657 From: Patrick Date: 7/19/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yeah, they would overcrowd the tank.  But not too bad (that is relatively speaking, it would be better than a bala shark going into the same tank).  Move them a couple of fish at a time and it might be ok.  What kind of algae eater is it?  Pleco, otto, CAE, SAE, etc.?  If you move them all at once, it will easily overload the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a 29 gallon tank with 6 cherry barbs and 5 albino Cory cats. I have another tank with 15 zebra danios and 1 algae eater. Can I put the danios and algae eater in the 29 gallon or will that over crowd it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3658 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Novo colunista no forum do grupo!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Agora no fórum AquaBahia um novo colunista o Sr. Julio (jccsfilho) - Aquárismo diverso - (Internauta-Aquarista correspondente do AquaBahia). Para quem gosta de novidades e de navegar pela net está será uma coluna perfeita para ser visitada.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Veja maiores detalhes no fórum:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A matéria de apresentação está em:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Se você não for um usuário registrado no fórum clique no link abaixo e realize seu registro, é fácil rápido e gratuito:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Abraços,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3659 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a 29 gallon tank with 6 cherry barbs and 5 albino Cory cats. I have another tank with 15 zebra danios and 1 algae eater. Can I put the danios and algae eater in the 29 gallon or will that over crowd it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I wouldn't think so.. not as you have plenty of water circulation..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     & clean it regularly.. shouldn't hurt a thing.. not in a tank that big..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    might want to get a plecostomus to add to it..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they are real good cleaners for a large tank..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have two in my koi & goldfish pond too..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hope you enjoy them ..Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3660 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    simonsmommy0117@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have a 29 gallon tank with 6 cherry barbs and 5 albino Cory
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cats. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > another tank with 15 zebra danios and 1 algae eater. Can I put the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    danios and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > algae eater in the 29 gallon or will that over crowd it?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you add them slowly (say 3 or 4 every couple of weeks), then 8-10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Danios should take it to about the 1" of fish/galon limit, but if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have decent filtration, and do week;ly water changes, the 15 should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    be ok (I'm not a big fan of the inches/galon rule anyway)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3661 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Funny that this arose today as I just counted the fish in my 25 gal that's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    been doing extremely well with 30-40% weekly water changes and many plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    along with 2 filters.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A tank can hold as many fish as yours if you keep up with maintenance and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    keep checking water quality and also have more then adequate filtration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My 25 gallon has:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    10 zebra danios
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    5 cherry barbs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 neon tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    4 glolights
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2 neon rainbows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    5 corydoras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    5 hockey stick tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 amano shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    6 sword tails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    9-10 small platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    5 full size platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 small albino red finned shark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 bolivian ram
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    10 small apple snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    10+ MTS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 golden nugget pleco.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I see many eyebrows raised??? Yes, this is way overstocked.. infact, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    would put one of the most over stocked tanks in the world to shame but it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stable enough. Not an easy thing to manage the stability. It has a eheim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2213 canister filter, Juwel compact 600lph power filter and 30-40% weekly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    water changes. Plants like hygrophylla polysperma, amazon swords, vallis,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    java ferns and moss, few surviving echinodorous tennelus and echinodorous
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    parvifolius.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Possibility of everything is there but then... you have to keep up with it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Not something everyone can manage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >From: daniel_roachus [mailto:daniel_roach@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Sent: 20 July 2004 13:25
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >simonsmommy0117@a... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> I have a 29 gallon tank with 6 cherry barbs and 5 albino Cory
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >cats. I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> another tank with 15 zebra danios and 1 algae eater. Can I put the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >danios and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >> algae eater in the 29 gallon or will that over crowd it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >If you add them slowly (say 3 or 4 every couple of weeks), then 8-10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Danios should take it to about the 1" of fish/galon limit, but if you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >have decent filtration, and do week;ly water changes, the 15 should
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >be ok (I'm not a big fan of the inches/galon rule anyway)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3662 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 10 gallon tank..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    & three mollies.. I white molly & 2 spotted black ones ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sorry forgot these.. Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3663 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: only a 10 gallon tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    4 zebra danios
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 neon tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    6 glolights
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    4 neon rainbows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2 sword tails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    4  small platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1 small apple snail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2  plecostomus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    this is what mine has now.. & it is only a 10 gallon tank ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    also 6  live plants... & two small plastic ones & some on my artificial log ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3664 From: questnjurny Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Whoops, realized after I sent it, the pleco was being suggested for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    teh 29, not the 10, too early in the morning! However, it still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stands, plecos get big!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3665 From: questnjurny Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm not sure I would put a pleco in...they get very large, it is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    uncommon for them to get 12"...a little big for a 10gal!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I wouldn't think so.. not as you have plenty of water circulation..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > & clean it regularly.. shouldn't hurt a thing.. not in a tank that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    big..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > might want to get a plecostomus to add to it..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > they are real good cleaners for a large tank..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have two in my koi & goldfish pond too..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > hope you enjoy them ..Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3666 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have taken two plecostomus out of my aquarium already .. & put them into my koi pond..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    thier great in there  ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have two more almost ready to go into my pond ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Whoops, realized after I sent it, the pleco was being suggested for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    teh 29, not the 10, too early in the morning!  However, it still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    stands, plecos get big!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3667 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It depends which Pleco. Not all become giants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Bristle noses grow to around 4" max, Golden nuggets too remain small. King
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    tiger plecs and clown plecs also around 3-6".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But even a 29g will be too small for the standard pleco that grows to over
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    15".. it may not be able to turn around well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >From: questnjurny [mailto:questnjurny@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Sent: 20 July 2004 16:13
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Whoops, realized after I sent it, the pleco was being suggested for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >teh 29, not the 10, too early in the morning! However, it still
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >stands, plecos get big!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3668 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have two in my KOI pond already.. over 450 gallons..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    & two more in my aquarium ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     their almost big enough to go into my pond..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    so no problem.. really..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    will swap them out  soon..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    probably in another month ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    their great in my koi pond..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm not sure I would put a pleco in...they get very large, it is not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    uncommon for them to get 12"...a little big for a 10gal!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >   I wouldn't think so.. not as you have plenty of water circulation..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  & clean it regularly.. shouldn't hurt a thing.. not in a tank that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    big..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > might want to get a plecostomus to add to it..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > they are real good cleaners for a large tank..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > I have two in my koi & goldfish pond too..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >   hope you enjoy them ..Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3669 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But even a 29g will be too small for the standard pleco that grows to over
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    15".. it may not be able to turn around well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    most likely not.. but great in my koi pond..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    have two already over 8 inches long ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3670 From: shailendra Indulkar Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Activated carbon: what is the process to make?How to confirmed its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Activated carbon what is it ? how could it be made in small scale?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    How to confirm it is activated carbon?how long is it safe for water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    filteration?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ManyThanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Indulkar Shailendra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3671 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a message dated 7/19/2004 4:35:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, robdar4609@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    10-gallon tank set up for tropical fish (since July 3rd), I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    clown loaches, 2 leopard danios, 2 marble mollies, 2 gold swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and one alge eater.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Your twice a day feeding sounds good to me ... it's what I do as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Since you have mollies and swordtails, what are you putting in for the algae eater? You mentioned flakes, but didn't say anything else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It's a pretty safe assumption that the algae eater isn't getting their nutritional requirement just by grazing on the algae on the aquarium glass. So you should be putting in some sort of sinking algae tablet. The mollies at least (not sure about the others) WILL steal that tablet right out from under the nose of the algae eater. I've seen my mollies steal them out from under the nose of a plecostamus. So you'll want to wait until a while after you turn out the aquarium light before you drop in the algae tablet ... give the other fish a chance to settle down for the evening.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What type of algae eater is it? Plecostamus? Otocinclus? Something else? Plecos are nocturnal, I *think* oto's are as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3672 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: African Cichlid Setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well went fish shopping yesterday to start stocking my 55 gallon African cichlid tank. I added the following fish 3 Electric Yellow (Labidochromis Caeruleus), 3 Acei Cichlids, 2 Cobalt Blue (Pseudotropheus Zebra). Going to monitor water conditions for a while tank should be cycled but since its the first tank i didn't cycle with fish we'll see. Other part is monitoring how fish behave and general aggression level before i decide what i will finish the tank population off with. Probably keep no more than 10  so a couple of one more species. But with this current mixture of fish what would be a good species to keep with them. Keeping in mind that im making sure i have no psycho's in this group.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Feels odd having 8 fish that only one is over an inch in a 55 but I well know they will grow into it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for any advise and reading the rambling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3673 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: New Pics Uploaded!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi there.   I just uploaded some recent pictures of our pond and garden to my FOTKI site... Here is the link and feel free to leave a comment or 2. I love to be humored.... lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hugs, Kelly 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hugs,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Kelly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      OWNER OF::
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       New Adult Group.. Come check us out!! 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Adult group for Women ONLY with ALOT of laughs 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Great group... G-PG rated.... Lots of Fun

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Dreamz64@runbox.com  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       ....Dreamz35
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ... Luvable464 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Take a look at my beautiful kids, gardens and pond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3674 From: questnjurny Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just curious what your temps are in teh winter? I would love to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      able to put a pleco in my pond...but I hvae a feeling it is far too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cold here! (will get just below freezing during the winter). What
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      temps can plecos go down to?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > most likely not.. but great in my koi pond..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have two already over 8 inches long ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3675 From: Seti Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Most days, I feed them flake in the morning, and in the evening I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      throw in an algae tablet, and sometimes dried worms or shrimp. I skip
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the morning feeding sometimes. The water's been clean and clear. As
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      it's been mentioned, your tank is very overstocked; even if your fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      won't die, they will be very uncomfortable soon. Sizewise, it's not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      recommended to keep clown loaches in anything under 55 gal. Don't know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      what algae eater you have, but many plecos will grow big eventually.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From personal experience: I know it's very tempting to get all this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cool fish; I've discovered it myself very soon after I set up my tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The best advice I got when starting my research was - don't get a 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      gal, go with a 30-55 gal. It seemed intimidating at first to start
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      with a larger tank right away, but I went ahead and got a 30-gal. (Now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I wish I'd gotten a 55) :) My suggestion would be to take at least the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      clowns and the pleco back, plant the tank, and see how you do. If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      like it, start planning for a bigger tank, and get one as big as you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      can afford and have room for. There really isn't much more time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      involved in caring for a bigger tank, but so much more satisfaction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~~Seti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "robdar4609"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      <robdar4609@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Hello, new member here and new to the world of aquariums. I have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 10-gallon tank set up for tropical fish (since July 3rd), I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > clown loaches, 2 leopard danios, 2 marble mollies, 2 gold swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > and one alge eater...no live plants yet. I know I may have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > populated too much too soon, but all seems well so far.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Iv been feeding them a pinch of tetra flakes in the morning and one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in the evening (sometimes I substitute with frozen bloodworms). Two
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Petco employees told me to feed them every other day, not twoce a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > day. Is this right? Iv read to feed tehm twice a day, which is why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Iv been doing it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Any help would be great, as I don't want to over or under feed my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > fish. Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > CD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3676 From: Seti Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Activated carbon: what is the process to make?How to confirmed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think, you can buy activated carbon in the fish section of Petsmart
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and the like. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that you need to change
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      your carbon once a month.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ~~Seti

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "shailendra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Indulkar" <indulkarshailu@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Activated carbon what is it ? how could it be made in small scale?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > How to confirm it is activated carbon?how long is it safe for water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > filteration?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ManyThanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Indulkar Shailendra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3677 From: Scorp1on Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: African Cichlid Setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Watch the labs. We had 2 and they were harassed big time when the lights went out. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Date: 07/20/04 15:43:30
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] African Cichlid Setup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Well went fish shopping yesterday to start stocking my 55 gallon African cichlid tank. I added the following fish 3 Electric Yellow (Labidochromis Caeruleus), 3 Acei Cichlids, 2 Cobalt Blue (Pseudotropheus Zebra). Going to monitor water conditions for a while tank should be cycled but since its the first tank i didn't cycle with fish we'll see. Other part is monitoring how fish behave and general aggression level before i decide what i will finish the tank population off with. Probably keep no more than 10  so a couple of one more species. But with this current mixture of fish what would be a good species to keep with them. Keeping in mind that im making sure i have no psycho's in this group.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Feels odd having 8 fish that only one is over an inch in a 55 but I well know they will grow into it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for any advise and reading the rambling
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3678 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Saltwater
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 7/19/2004 11:21:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "salt150g" <salt150g@...> writes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >> I have shopped
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >around and added it up and this is going to total up to more then the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >tank cost me brand new. Any suggestions on some price savers?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >-
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You can make your own wet dry filter. Not too complicated, biggest expense might be the power head.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3679 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I honestly have no idea..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      all I know is water never freezes here in my pond..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      my fish stayed in there all winter last winter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      all we did was change the filter once a week & didn't feed them until spring.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      we didn't have much really bad weather last year..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      & no snow at all..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sorry I couldn't be of more help..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I live in N. GA .. in the Rome, GA  area.. ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just curious what your temps are in the  winter?  I would love to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      able to put a pleco in my pond...but I hvae a feeling it is far too
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      cold here!  (will get just below freezing during the winter).  What
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      temps can plecos go down to?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > most likely not.. but great in my koi pond..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > have two already over 8 inches long ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >   Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3680 From: questnjurny Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Much warmer than here! I am in Canada...the most moderate area of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Canada (on an island off Vancouver, BC), but it does still freeze here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      on bad days in the winter! Too bad, would like to get something other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      than snails to clean up after the fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Carly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I honestly have no idea..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > all I know is water never freezes here in my pond..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > my fish stayed in there all winter last winter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > all we did was change the filter once a week & didn't feed them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      until spring.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > we didn't have much really bad weather last year..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > & no snow at all..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sorry I couldn't be of more help..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I live in N. GA .. in the Rome, GA area.. ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3681 From: paul helms Date: 7/20/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Activated carbon: what is the process to make?How to confirmed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      it is so cheap, it is not worth making, but it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      active for 30 days after getting wet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- shailendra Indulkar <indulkarshailu@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Activated carbon what is it ? how could it be made
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > in small scale?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > How to confirm it is activated carbon?how long is it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > safe for water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > filteration?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ManyThanks,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Indulkar Shailendra
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3682 From: Robert Thompson Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Digest Number 308
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Message: 19       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:15:04 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         From:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Witchywmn42@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Correct Feeding Time?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In a message dated 7/19/2004 4:35:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      robdar4609@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > 10-gallon tank set up for tropical fish (since July 3rd), I have 2
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > clown loaches, 2 leopard danios, 2 marble mollies, 2 gold swordtails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > and one alge eater.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Your twice a day feeding sounds good to me ... it's what I do as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Since you have mollies and swordtails, what are you putting in for the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      eater? You mentioned flakes, but didn't say anything else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's a pretty safe assumption that the algae eater isn't getting their
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      nutritional requirement just by grazing on the algae on the aquarium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      glass. So you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      should be putting in some sort of sinking algae tablet. The mollies at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      least
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      (not sure about the others) WILL steal that tablet right out from under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the nose
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of the algae eater. I've seen my mollies steal them out from under the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      nose
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      of a plecostamus. So you'll want to wait until a while after you turn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      out the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      aquarium light before you drop in the algae tablet ... give the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fish a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      chance to settle down for the evening.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What type of algae eater is it? Plecostamus? Otocinclus? Something
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      else?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Plecos are nocturnal, I *think* oto's are as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Hi,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What I used to do for my plecos was about 10 minutes after I turned off the lights, I would take one of those lead wieghts (you can get them at the Pet shops) and cut a 1/4" slice of cuccumber, put the lead close to the outside and drop it in the tank....the next morning I would find the center had been eaten out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I had a 20 gallon long tank with 10 mollies, and the plecos.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Robert T
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Technot64@...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3683 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Hey, ya! =))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Looking forward for a response :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ..btw, "58442" is a password for archive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3684 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hey, ya! =))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lol Bucks... That's a Virus ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Not your fault.. could be your system is infected or someone who has you on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        their address book is infected.. but others. Please don't open the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        attachment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >From: bucks_boogie@... [mailto:bucks_boogie@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Sent: 21 July 2004 09:28
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hey, ya! =))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Looking forward for a response :P
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >..btw, "58442" is a password for archive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3685 From: Norman. S. Hampson. Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hey, ya! =))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The file you have attached to this post contains a virus!!!that Norton anti virus cannot deal with! I would advice that you refrain from posting until you get your computer decontaminated. !!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        bucks_boogie@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Looking  forward  for a response :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ..btw, "58442" is a password  for  archive


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream name=Readme.zip


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3686 From: Tim Walker Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: 10 gallon suggestions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Some recommended fish to cohabitate with bettas are : tetras, danios,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > angelfish, livebearers, rasboras, loaches, plecos, and catfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > (source : LiveAquaria.com)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I would avoid guppies etc with Betta's as they will respond
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        aggressively to the brightly coloured and flared fins of the various
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        livebearers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I currently have no probs with Cory's, Tetra's, Bristlenose, Siamese
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Algae Eaters, and Bolivian Rams.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My Betta particularly LOVES a heavily planted tank, watching him swim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        through it all is like watching a kitten playing games, he has a ball.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Tim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3687 From: Patrick Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Hey, ya! =))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I opened the zip file thinking it was going to give me a text document.  When I saw it wasn't a text doc, I knew quickly it was in fact virus and closed it asap!  I just hope the zip file was really a zip file and not part of the virus!  Stupid me, I shouldn't have opened it!  Hey, now that we have one, can we forward to our spamming friends? :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Date: 07/21/04 03:49:50
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hey, ya! =))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Lol Bucks... That's a Virus ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not your fault.. could be your system is infected or someone who has you on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          their address book is infected.. but others. Please don't open the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          attachment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3689 From: Jonathan Hartsoe Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wanted to find out what you guys recommend as a substrate in a planted tank. Never really bothered with planted tanks due to keeping cichlids and turtles. But have a comunity 20 gallon tank now and would like to have it planted and wanted to get opinions and suggestions of substrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks in advance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3690 From: Scorp1on Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             In our 20 gal community it's java moss and 1 fake plant. The fry have had ample places to hide.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Date: 07/21/04 14:28:39
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wanted to find out what you guys recommend as a substrate in a planted tank. Never really bothered with planted tanks due to keeping cichlids and turtles. But have a comunity 20 gallon tank now and would like to have it planted and wanted to get opinions and suggestions of substrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks in advance.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3691 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Los Angeles Area Shops
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hi, wondering is anyone has any suggestions on LA/Southern Cali area
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            fish stores. It is such a big area and there are many to choose
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            from, I would be willing to drive for a good one. I'm also looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            to purchase a larger (30-50 gallon) tank and would love to get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            good price and good quality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3692 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm by no means an expert, but after four tries, here's what is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            working great for us...Mix some peat moss with vermiculite in water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            till it is doughy. Add some laterite on top of that (iron based
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            clay) and cover with either gravel or sand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Wanted to find out what you guys recommend as a substrate in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            planted tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Never really bothered with planted tanks due to keeping cichlids and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > turtles. But have a comunity 20 gallon tank now and would like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            have it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > planted and wanted to get opinions and suggestions of substrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Thanks in advance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3693 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Very similar to this.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/plants/Mathur_Substrate.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That's my substrate currently and have been having a lot of problems pruning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            rooted plants... if you use this, be ready for what I just said.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >From: cynthia brennemann [mailto:brennewoman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Sent: 21 July 2004 21:54
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >I'm by no means an expert, but after four tries, here's what is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >working great for us...Mix some peat moss with vermiculite in water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >till it is doughy. Add some laterite on top of that (iron based
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >clay) and cover with either gravel or sand.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >> Wanted to find out what you guys recommend as a substrate in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >planted tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >> Never really bothered with planted tanks due to keeping cichlids and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >> turtles. But have a comunity 20 gallon tank now and would like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >have it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >> planted and wanted to get opinions and suggestions of substrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >> Thanks in advance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3694 From: Patrick Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I use plain gravel.  The plants seem to do well.  I don't really use anything special at all for my plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3695 From: Aaron Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Los Angeles Area Shops
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I started to list all the places I've visited in my travels, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              could use a lot of help in making a more complete list.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              follow the link below or click on 'Links' in the left section of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Home Page.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/links

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              find the 4th folder down

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              L F S
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Local Fish Stores ~ post links, phone #'s, address and info of your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              favorite lfs ~ Sorted into folders by Country, State/Provinince,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Region, County, City, etc...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              L F S > U S A > California > Greater Los Angeles Area

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Aaron


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "robdar4609"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <robdar4609@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Hi, wondering is anyone has any suggestions on LA/Southern Cali
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              area
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fish stores. It is such a big area and there are many to choose
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > from, I would be willing to drive for a good one. I'm also looking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > to purchase a larger (30-50 gallon) tank and would love to get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > good price and good quality.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > CD
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3696 From: Aaron Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Peat Moss (was - Re: Planted Tank Substrate)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What kind of peat moss do you use?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the kind I tried was really fine almost powdery and it clouded the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              water until I dumped it out, also the vermeculite kept floating up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              whenever planting

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "cynthia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              brennemann" <brennewoman@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I'm by no means an expert, but after four tries, here's what is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > working great for us...Mix some peat moss with vermiculite in water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > till it is doughy. Add some laterite on top of that (iron based
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > clay) and cover with either gravel or sand.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3697 From: Aaron Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Wow, I didn't realize it was so much involved. glad to see Nim and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              others have had better luck than I.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              currently frustrated w/ a major Algae invasion

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Very similar to this.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/plants/Mathur_Substrate.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > That's my substrate currently and have been having a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              problems pruning
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > rooted plants... if you use this, be ready for what I just said.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Nim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3698 From: Aaron Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I use the store bought planted aquarium substrates. I like the Eco
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Complete kind best cuse its already wet and I'm too lazy to wash any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              more onyx sand or gravel these days

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              also - for more info check out the links section of the home page

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bookmarks > Planted Aquarium Info

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Aaron

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hartsoe" <jhartsoe@e...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Wanted to find out what you guys recommend as a substrate in a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              planted tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Never really bothered with planted tanks due to keeping cichlids and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > turtles. But have a comunity 20 gallon tank now and would like to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              have it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > planted and wanted to get opinions and suggestions of substrate.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks in advance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3699 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was RE: Hey, ya! =))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/21/2004 1:10:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, americanfishguy@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I opened the zip file thinking it was going to give me a text document.  When I saw it wasn't a text doc, I knew quickly it was in fact virus and closed it asap!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Don't blame it on bucks. These stupid trojans and worms and viruses that are sending to people all over are SPOOFING email addresses. So something that appears to be from such and such email address, really isn't. Here's an ironic one ... I own my own web-domain for my site. There are exactly TWO email addresses at celticparents.com ... and both belong to me. I keep getting virus emails to my webmaster account from other "addresses" with celticparents.com on them. Addresses that I KNOW do not exist.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm so glad that the email program I use to check my domain addresses (Incredimail) finally got a junk mail filter, so I don't get many messages that manage to get through.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Word of advice ... NEVER open a password protected zip file, even if it appears to be from someone that you know. If you don't know what the attachment is, or aren't expecting an attachment, don't download the attachment. There are even email messages that APPEAR to be "Returned mail" type messages, that have viruses and worms and trojans attached.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I had a recent bout with the bagle thing ... I ended up having to go to Symantec website and doing their free system scan. It said I had netsky on my system, so I had to download their fixit tool and shut off my windows system restore, because apparently netsky makes a copy of itself in your system restore folder, which antivirus software can't/won't go into. So everytime you'd restart windows, whether you'd manage to clean out the virus or not, it would reinfect your system straight out of system restore folder. BTW ... after running Symantec's clean up tool to get rid of the worm their scan said I had, the cleanup tool said it wasn't present on my system. So I've got no idea what's goin on ... I just don't send attachments until I'm sure my system is clean.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I really HATE people who have nothing better to do than write viruses and worms and trojans and send them out among people who have done nothing to deserve the hassle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3700 From: cynthia brennemann Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Peat Moss (was - Re: Planted Tank Substrate)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That's why you have to mix it into a doughy mass before you put the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              other stuff over it. The layer of gravel/sand hold it down. It will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              still be a bit cloudy at first, but that will clear up shortly. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              use kinda chunky peat, the kind you line baskets with.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > What kind of peat moss do you use?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the kind I tried was really fine almost powdery and it clouded the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > water until I dumped it out, also the vermeculite kept floating up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > whenever planting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3701 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i honestly was told it didnt matter and from that i just use my purple and teal gravel.. it works this last time that i added some more plants mine is very heavily planted i was noticing that i need to add more gravel which isnt giong to happenf or the fact that i dont know my bookshelf can handle more weight.. so it will live.. but that is what i use shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3702 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was RE: Hey, ya! =))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I had a similar thing happen on the xP portion of my HD. A trojan went
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              into the RESTORE section. As I recall, I finally had to shut down
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              system restore and erase the previous restore points. That took care of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the the little bugger in the restore section. Then, I turned system
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              restore back on and created a new restore point.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Btw, have you considered going linux? Linux can do virtually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              everything M$ windoze can do and far cheaper. As I recall reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              recently on a Xandros forum recently, there are very few viruses and no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              known trojans that affect linux. Most linux users use no anti-virus. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              do virtually all of my web-surfing and all of my email downloading and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              sending in linux.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are also "Live CD " linuxes. Many of these can be had for under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              $5.00. These will work even if there isn't even an operating system on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              your computer. The OS exists only on the CD-ROM and, of course, is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              unwritable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Joe G.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3703 From: Julie Date: 7/21/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was RE: Hey, ya! =))
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are viruses out there for Linux. But since it isn't as widely used as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              windows, there isn't any profit (for lack of a better term) for the virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              writers to write viruses for it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              julie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cheyenne, Wyoming
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am not a complete idiot. Some parts are missing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Btw, have you considered going linux? Linux can do virtually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > everything M$ windoze can do and far cheaper. As I recall reading
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > recently on a Xandros forum recently, there are very few viruses and no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > known trojans that affect linux. Most linux users use no anti-virus. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > do virtually all of my web-surfing and all of my email downloading and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > sending in linux.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3704 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Shannon,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Basically, everything can work. I have also had heavily planted aquariums with standard pea gravel, silica sand and lava rock gravel. Remaining low tech will mean that even standard gravel or sand will be more then enough for a lush plant growth. Problem comes when you have a high light setup and plenty of CO2 pumping into the tank. This is where standard gravel and sand can be insufficient. In this case you need a bit more then that like lava rock gravel/fluorite and the extreme end as soil substrate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My results were nice plant growth with sand and pea gravel, a bit better with porous gravel (lava rock – aqua grit) and kind of uncontrollable with soil substrate. Everything has its benefits and drawbacks. Sand and pea gravel are not large bacterial grounds like porous gravels are so lack a bit of nutrition in there. Porous gravel can provide everything needed for the plant and things like fluorite and eco-complete are one of the best of these types but with a drawback of being lighter then normal gravel or sand… hence, some problems in getting stem plants to root properly but not as difficult as it sounds J. Soil substrate has everything that rooted plants need, but for some reason my stem plants have suffered in this, probably because they extract most of the stuff from the water rather then substrate and my scenario with fertilizing was algae. I had to stop fertilizing as the required rate to prevent algae and thus the stems suffered… but there are so many variables in any environment that one thing that does not work for me will work wonders for another and vice versa.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Things like fluorite or eco complete are IMHO the best substrates for planted tanks as they can offer a much better control over soil and gravel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 22 July 2004 04:17
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Planted Tank Substrate

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i honestly was told it d idn t matter and from that i just use my purple and teal gravel.. it works this last time that i added some more plants mine is very heavily planted i was noticing that i need to add more gravel which isnt giong to happenf or the fact that i dont know my bookshelf can handle more weight.. so it will live.. but that is what i use shannon

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3705 From: Tim Walker Date: 7/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Sexing Bolivian Rams.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Guys,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have 4 Bolivian Rams (Microgeophagus altispinosus). I purchased 2 a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              few months ago but lost one unexpectedly about a month after. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              recently purchased 3 more (for a total of 4 now) and I'm wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              anyone has a way of sexing them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've noticed that 2 of them have the first four dorsal spines a deep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              black colour. The other 2 only have the first 3. (I'm working on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Butterfly Ram sexing method) but that's about all I can tell.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Anyone with more experience with them know how to tell?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Tim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3706 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Banco de Dados sobre Discos! Por Julio (jccsfilho)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Foi adicionada no fórum AquaBahia a matéria (Banco de Dados sobre Discos) realizada por Julio (jccsfilho)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Veja maiores detalhes no fórum:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              A matéria esta localizada na seção:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Se você não for um usuário registrado no fórum clique no link abaixo e realize seu registro, é fácil rápido e gratuito:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Atenciosamente,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Paulo Gatti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3707 From: daniel_roachus Date: 7/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: 29 Gallon (over crowded)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > My 25 gallon has:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 10 zebra danios
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 5 cherry barbs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 3 neon tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 4 glolights
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 2 neon rainbows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 5 corydoras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 5 hockey stick tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 1 amano shrimp
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 6 sword tails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 9-10 small platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 5 full size platies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 1 small albino red finned shark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 1 bolivian ram
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 10 small apple snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 10+ MTS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 1 golden nugget pleco.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I see many eyebrows raised??? Yes, this is way overstocked..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              *Stops to pick jaw ip from floor!!*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3708 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Sexing Bolivian Rams.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi Tim,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              AFAIK they cannot be sexed until they spawn. You may have to keep the group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              together to get some results. I tried working on the Butterfly ram thingie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and thought I got a pair, but they seem to be both males. So far, no success
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              on these buggers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >From: Tim Walker [mailto:twalker@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Sent: 22 July 2004 12:41
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Sexing Bolivian Rams.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Hi Guys,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >I have 4 Bolivian Rams (Microgeophagus altispinosus). I purchased 2 a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >few months ago but lost one unexpectedly about a month after. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >recently purchased 3 more (for a total of 4 now) and I'm wondering if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >anyone has a way of sexing them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >I've noticed that 2 of them have the first four dorsal spines a deep
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >black colour. The other 2 only have the first 3. (I'm working on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Butterfly Ram sexing method) but that's about all I can tell.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Anyone with more experience with them know how to tell?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Tim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3709 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Planted Tank Substrate to question about algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Nim.. in a earlier post someone brought up the fact that algae is taking over in their planted tank...I noticed this am that mine for the frist time ever is getting to be blotchy on the outsdie of the tank and kinda hang off some of my plants.. i have 3 corys and a algae eater in a my 20 gallon do you think i can add anohter algae eater or will they not get along... if not what oculd i add.. or should i jsut deal with the algae.. shannon

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Shannon,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Basically, everything can work. I have also had heavily planted aquariums with standard pea gravel, silica sand and lava rock gravel. Remaining low tech will mean that even standard gravel or sand will be more then enough for a lush plant growth. Problem comes when you have a high light setup and plenty of CO2 pumping into the tank. This is where standard gravel and sand can be insufficient. In this case you need a bit more then that like lava rock gravel/fluorite and the extreme end as soil substrate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My results were nice plant growth with sand and pea gravel, a bit better with porous gravel (lava rock – aqua grit) and kind of uncontrollable with soil substrate. Everything has its benefits and drawbacks. Sand and pea gravel are not large bacterial grounds like porous gravels are so lack a bit of nutrition in there. Porous gravel can provide everything needed for the plant and things like fluorite and eco-complete are one of the best of these types but with a drawback of being lighter then normal gravel or sand… hence, some problems in getting stem plants to root properly but not as difficult as it sounds J. Soil substrate has everything that rooted plants need, but for some reason my stem plants have suffered in this, probably because they extract most of the stuff from the water rather then substrate and my scenario with fertilizing was algae. I had to stop fertilizing as the required rate to prevent algae and thus the stems suffered… but there are so many variables in any environment that one thing that does not work for me will work wonders for another and vice versa.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Things like fluorite or eco complete are IMHO the best substrates for planted tanks as they can offer a much better control over soil and gravel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3710 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate to question about algae

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Shannon, What type of algae is it? Any pics? What algae eater do you have? There are different algae eaters for different types of algae.. eg. Ottos and bristle nose plecs are best for spot algae and dust algae types but they don’t touch hair algae types, where as Amano shrimps and Siamese algae eaters (lot of confusion on this species) will rip apart any hair.thread/beard algae types but will not touch spot algae. Nothing touches the horrid slimy blue green algae (cynobacteria).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Algae eaters are a temporary solution to the algae problem. One needs to know whats causing it and help the plants over come the algae problems. Ofcourse this cannot happen in a non planted tank but then there are various solutions to it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: 22 July 2004 15:17
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Planted Tank Substrate to question about algae

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks Nim.. in a earlier post someone brought up the fact that algae is taking over in their planted tank...I noticed this am that mine for the frist time ever is getting to be blotchy on the outsdie of the tank and kinda hang off some of my plants.. i have 3 corys and a algae eater in a my 20 gallon do you think i can add anohter algae eater or will they not get along... if not what oculd i add.. or should i jsut deal with the algae.. shannon

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Shannon,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Basically, everything can work. I have also had heavily planted aquariums with standard pea gravel, silica sand and lava rock gravel. Remaining low tech will mean that even standard gravel or sand will be more then enough for a lush plant growth. Problem comes when you have a high light setup and plenty of CO2 pumping into the tank. This is where standard gravel and sand can be insufficient. In this case you need a bit more then that like lava rock gravel/fluorite and the extreme end as soil substrate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              My results were nice plant growth with sand and pea gravel, a bit better with porous gravel (lava rock – aqua grit) and kind of uncontrollable with soil substrate. Everything has its benefits and drawbacks. Sand and pea gravel are not large bacterial grounds like porous gravels are so lack a bit of nutrition in there. Porous gravel can provide everything needed for the plant and things like fluorite and eco-complete are one of the best of these types but with a drawback of being lighter then normal gravel or sand… hence, some problems in getting stem plants to root properly but not as difficult as it sounds J. Soil substrate has everything that rooted plants need, but for some reason my stem plants have suffered in this, probably because they extract most of the stuff from the water rather then substrate and my scenario with fertilizing was algae. I had to stop fertilizing as the required rate to prevent algae and thus the stems suffered… but there are so many variables in any environment that one thing that does not work for me will work wonders for another and vice versa.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Things like fluorite or eco complete are IMHO the best substrates for planted tanks as they can offer a much better control over soil and gravel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Nim



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3711 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/22/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate to question about...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              well this is the first algae issue i have had to answer some of your question i have a umm not sure what kind of algae eater it is about 6 inches and swims all round it is long and skinny i jsut know they were calling it a algae eater not like a pleco or whatnot... the algae i am seeing is in very tiny spots in various part of the glass on that tank... but now that you meantion some other kinds i put some hair grass in the tank and now see some stringing off of that.. i wonder if i am feeding to much now that i have all these live plants.. thanks shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3712 From: fishtankbabe Date: 7/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Pitcure on the home page
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Could someone tell me what the species of rays are in the picture on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the home page? Particularly the black one with the white dots, that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              one is gorgeous. Are they freshwater?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              fishtankbabe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3713 From: keithblackketter Date: 7/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: baby male guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I had a batch of baby guppies, well I am able to sort the males from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the females now, but the males are appearing to have the color of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              wild variety, i was wondering if this is normal, with guppies in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              captivity

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3714 From: Aaron Date: 7/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Pitcure on the home page
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi fishtankbabe,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              yep, they are freshwater - more info & pics ->
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              they belong to the owner of -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Canadian Freshwater Stingrays
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cathey's Stingray Group
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianfreshwaterstingray/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hope that helps,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              TropicalFishMan

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "fishtankbabe"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              <fishtankbabe@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Could someone tell me what the species of rays are in the picture
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the home page? Particularly the black one with the white dots, that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > one is gorgeous. Are they freshwater?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > fishtankbabe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3715 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: to any endler owners
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              has anyone ever had trouble with them being aggresive? i bought 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              neons for my tank, as i put them in the endlers starting attacking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              them even had one on the rocks pecking at his eyes. so i took them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              out right away but one still died. now there all alone in a 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              gallont tank. would they live ok in a 10 gallon with some goldfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i know there tropical but now i don't know what to do with them. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              feel sorry for them. thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3716 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:54:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, americanfishguy@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I use plain gravel.  The plants seem to do well.  I don't really use anything special at all for my plants.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Same here. I set up my tank several months before even considering plants. I just dropped those walmart Aponogeton bulbs in, buried them in the gravel a little bit, and left 'em alone. They're doing pretty well, nice and green and the fishies love swimming between the leaves and having the occasional nibble.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              When I vacuum the gravel, I leave the area around the plants alone so I don't mess up their roots.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3717 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was R...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/21/2004 11:52:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joegum@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Btw,  have you considered going linux?  Linux can do virtually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              everything M$ windoze can do and far cheaper. 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Urm. Nuh uh. Windows XP was installed on the computer when we bought it, and I have no knowledge of using any other OS ... I've been using Windows since 3.1 came out. *grin*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks for the info tho.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3718 From: paul helms Date: 7/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: viruses and trojans and worms (was R...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              while linux can't quite do everything that windows can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              do, as it is not compatible with everything that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              windows is, it has a amjor advantage. you can install
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              win for lin and run windows inside the safety of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              linux. windows will not crash or become corrupted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              when running unde rthe linux os.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              --- Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > In a message dated 7/21/2004 11:52:53 PM Eastern
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > joegum@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > Btw, have you considered going linux? Linux can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > do virtually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > > everything M$ windoze can do and far cheaper.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Urm. Nuh uh. Windows XP was installed on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > computer when we bought it, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > I have no knowledge of using any other OS ... I've
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > been using Windows since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > 3.1 came out. *grin*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Thanks for the info tho.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > ~Lair of the Anime Witches~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > my LiveJournal
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3719 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: to any endler owners
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Never had any experience with them being agressive, but I've never kept them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              with fish as small as neons.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They would probably be ok in the 10g depending on the temp, it seems they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              can tolerate temps down to 69-70°


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Theresa



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@...>


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > has anyone ever had trouble with them being aggresive? i bought 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > neons for my tank, as i put them in the endlers starting attacking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > them even had one on the rocks pecking at his eyes. so i took them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > out right away but one still died. now there all alone in a 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > gallont tank. would they live ok in a 10 gallon with some goldfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > i know there tropical but now i don't know what to do with them. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > feel sorry for them. thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3720 From: dawnmvo Date: 7/23/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hello

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a problem, I did a water change about 30% and vacumn, not the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              whole bottom, but suddenly my albino catfish is sick. The other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              regular one looks ok I think he is starting to get stressed because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              of the albino. The albino swims funny, darts, lays upside down or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              on his side. my ph is really high 7.6 ish. And i am a bad person
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              because I have been lazy on the testing and don't know what it was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              before the change. I have put in ph down and so far nothing has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              happened. I wonder if an opened bottle loses it potency. I do know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my tap water can be very high in ph.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Dawn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3721 From: Ed Feher Date: 7/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Planted Tank Substrate to question about...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Could it be a Farawella?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              NC Ed


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >i have a umm not sure what kind of algae eater it is about 6 inches and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >swims
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >all round it is long and skinny i jsut know they were calling it a algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >eater not like a pleco or whatnot...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >thanks shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3722 From: Elyse Date: 7/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: to any endler owners
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, I have been told by many people that Endlers can be very aggressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              that they pick on the other community fish in the tank.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              elyse@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.elyserachel.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ripley's page: http://www.dogster.com/dog_page.php?j=t&i=36163

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              AIM: ElyseRachel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              MSN: ElyseRachel@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo: ElyseRachel@...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Chihuahua Rescue and Transport (CRT):
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.chihuahua-rescue.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The Sarasota Chihuahua Connection:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SarasotaChihuahua/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The Tropical Fish Connection:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TropicalFishConnection/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              PetFinder:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              http://www.petfinder.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              From: iloveguppies [mailto:CK147@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 8:43 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] to any endler owners

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              has anyone ever had trouble with them being aggresive? i bought 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              neons for my tank, as i put them in the endlers starting attacking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              them even had one on the rocks pecking at his eyes. so i took them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              out right away but one still died. now there all alone in a 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              gallont tank. would they live ok in a 10 gallon with some goldfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i know there tropical but now i don't know what to do with them. i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              feel sorry for them. thanks






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3723 From: Patrick Date: 7/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Why do you have to put pH down in?  7.6 is a good pH for nearly every fish out there that you would keep. As for the albino, I am guessing cory, they like to play a lot.  That could be it playing.  Don't mess with pH, it is better leaving it at 7.6 (which is a great place for it to be) than try to get it to be something it doesn't want to be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hello

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a problem, I did a water change about 30% and vacumn, not the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                whole bottom, but suddenly my albino catfish is sick.  The other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                regular one looks ok I think he is starting to get stressed because
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of the albino.  The albino swims funny, darts, lays upside down or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                on his side.  my ph is really high 7.6 ish.  And i am a bad person
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                because I have been lazy on the testing and don't know what it was
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                before the change.  I have put in ph down and so far nothing has
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                happened.  I wonder if an opened bottle loses it potency.  I do know
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                my tap water can be very high in ph.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Any ideas?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Dawn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ____________________________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3724 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: GOLDFISH
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                well one of the goldfish i was talking about in my endler post,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                yesterday i noticed his top fin laying over and him not as active so
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i put him in his own tank and this morning he is so pale usually
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                bright orange and white. any idea's. we've had him for about 4
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                months or more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3725 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: to any endler owners
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                actually my endlers are smaller than the neons, there still growing,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                they just got there colors in.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Never had any experience with them being agressive, but I've never
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                kept them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > with fish as small as neons.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > They would probably be ok in the 10g depending on the temp, it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                seems they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > can tolerate temps down to 69-70°
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Theresa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: "iloveguppies" <CK147@H...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > has anyone ever had trouble with them being aggresive? i bought 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > neons for my tank, as i put them in the endlers starting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                attacking
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > them even had one on the rocks pecking at his eyes. so i took
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > out right away but one still died. now there all alone in a 1
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > gallont tank. would they live ok in a 10 gallon with some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                goldfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > i know there tropical but now i don't know what to do with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > feel sorry for them. thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3726 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: to any endler owners
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I wish i had known that before i bought them, i thought they where
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                community fish. but they seem to be ok with cory cats so i guess
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that's the only tank mates they'll have.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yes, I have been told by many people that Endlers can be very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                aggressive and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > that they pick on the other community fish in the tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Elyse & Ripley
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > elyse@e...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://www.elyserachel.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Ripley's page: http://www.dogster.com/dog_page.php?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                j=t&i=36163
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3727 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Dawn,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I am not sure what product that you are using but it has been my experience that after opening pH Down brand does become less effective over time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What type of catfish is yours? Like Patrick has said corys are sometimes playful and that is what yours is doing. Corys also prefer to have a few of their own kind around. I like to have a minimum of 3 in my tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                BTW, while I subscribe to the conventional wisdom that a pH of 7.0 is desirable for a community aquarium, a pH of 7.6 is within the acceptable range for a cory cat (reference: http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/profile.asp?id=Corydoras+aeneus).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In my opinion, if your catfish is really sick, now would not be a good time to be messing with the pH since that will only distress the creature more.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hope this helps.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Regards,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Gary
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3728 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Substrates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Message: 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 22:06:20 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > From: Witchywmn42@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Subject: Re: Re: Planted Tank Substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >In a message dated 7/21/2004 5:54:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >americanfishguy@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >> I use plain gravel. The plants seem to do well. I don't really use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >> anything special at all for my plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Same here. I set up my tank several months before even considering plants. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >just dropped those walmart Aponogeton bulbs in, buried them in the gravel a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >little bit, and left 'em alone. They're doing pretty well, nice and green and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >the fishies love swimming between the leaves and having the occasional nibble.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >When I vacuum the gravel, I leave the area around the plants alone so I don't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >mess up their roots.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >Erin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I was more into plants before Erin got me into fish. (Before our yard became a construction zone!) But I too am using regular deco gravel, because I started with that, some aponogetons, and a fake log with polyester plants. But my nitrates were high, so I wanted to add more real plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I chose plants that were recommended for my dwarf gouramis. Most of my plants are doing okay, but my Water Sprite, which was a bare root plant, quickly died, even though I don't vacuum that side of my tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I wouldn't suggest using just gravel and fish waste to support a decent planted tank. I guess some of the hardiest plants will do okay - rhizomes/bulbs like aponogetons and dwarf lilies don't need to be planted in substrate, all you have to do is drop them in and they will grow on a bare tank bottom; and floating plants or driftwood plants will be all right too. But I suspect that if you wanted a natural aquarium environment with a larger variety of beautiful plants, as opposed to a nice "fish tank" with a few plants, that you might need something better.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Some folks recommend plain clay cat litter (oil sorb?) under some sand. (Check out the Quackenbush article for FAMA mag online.) If you want something especially made for aquariums, Eco-complete substrate is supposed to be good, if you can find it in your LFS.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I was in too much of a hurry with my first, and I made some mistakes in spite of reading everything I could find... When I start my next aquarium, I will probably start it with Eco-complete and a whole mess of plants and rocks, and do a fishless cycle, then wait for the pH to stabilize (as a gardener I may be able to be content with just plants and water for awhile), and then get some African cichlids (thinking about Daffodils and Yellow Juli), which ought to love my well water with a natural pH of 7.5 - 8.5!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3729 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/24/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: to any endler owners
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                In a message dated 7/24/2004 9:47:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, CK147@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I wish i had known that before i bought them, i thought they where
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                community fish. but they seem to be ok with cory cats so i guess
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                that's the only tank mates they'll have.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a bunch of Endler's in a 55 with 3 German Rams and a Gold Ram and all seem to be doing fine.  Of course Rams are a bit more hardy than tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3730 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Plecos and ponds
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm here in Buffalo, NY. I've given my Mom some albino chocolates,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gibbiceps and commons for her pond in the past. They were all dead by
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                late September/ early October. It was an unusually cool fall, though.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But afterwards, all plecos were removed by late summer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3731 From: bucks_boogie@webtv.net Date: 7/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Virus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks to Norm, Nim and others. I've been using WebTv for several years
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and thought I've been immune to virus' and now I know I'm wrong. At
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                least it doesn't affect my machine, just WebTv as a whole. I've been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                used as a virus carrier once before and have alerted WebTv about both
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                instances now. Thanks again, I hope WebTv has corrected the problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Damaged and I like it. It made me what I am!"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3732 From: iloveguppies Date: 7/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: to any endler owners
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have them in a 10 gallon right now but in a fe days here i'm going
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to transfer them into a 20 gallon tank. maybe that will give them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                more room and make them not be such bullies. maybe i'll try some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                rams a try next time. the tetras are definatley not hardy fish they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                just would let the other fish pick on them didn't even try and swim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                away. for now there in a 1 gallon alone but i plan on moving the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                goldfish into the 10 gallon and i will try and put them with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                goldfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I have a bunch of Endler's in a 55 with 3 German Rams and a Gold
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ram and all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > seem to be doing fine. Of course Rams are a bit more hardy than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                tetras.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3733 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/25/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: More Than You Ever Wanted to Know . . .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                about blue-green algae. This site is a bibliographic resource on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                cyanobacteria--which is what the blue-green algae in our tanks is. Here is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the link: http://tinyurl.com/5sdw2

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just to satisfy a bit of your curiosity, I did a simple search on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                blue-green, and came up with a list of 2646 references. It will be up to you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to track down the publications for the information on such scintillating
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                topics as "Reactivity of Exometabolites of Some Blue-Green-Algae",
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Promotive effect of Se on the growth and antioxidation of a blue-green alga
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Spirulina maxima", "Some nutritional factors influencing nitrogenase
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                activities in some blue-green algae upon the addition of fish meal extract",
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and "Further evidence for the electron pool hypothesis. The effect of KCN
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and DSPD on the photophobic reaction in the filamentous blue-green alga
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Phormidium uncinatum".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hey, have fun!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                \\Steve//
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For tropical fish and aquariums in MA, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.petsforum.com/was/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If you are in the DC Metro area, visit:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.pvas.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sheltie Rescue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.nvsr.org
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Manager Fish Club and Society WebRing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.petsforum.com/was/fishclub/fishclub.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                List Owner: fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fishadmin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gwapa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3734 From: Mark & Peta Bethke Date: 7/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Greetings like to introduce myself
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've been a fishkeeper for around 25 yrs , my group of interest is gouramis (labyrinths) including paradise fish and a few other smaller groups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Correctly I'm involved in a regimentive breeding program using wild caught Marcopodus Ocularius (sp) directly air freighted from Thailand . The program is exceeding my wildest expectations. The fry are now at about 13 mm. The parents are very strong and will draw blood if you disturb them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm also breeding Trichogastor Pectoralis, Trichogaster mircoeplis, Trichogastor Leeri (super wild caught, color unbelievable) and Pseudophromenus dayi (Spiketail Paradise).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                After seeing the decline of the gouramis in the pet trade due to inbreeding and lack of concern I decided to try a grass roots level program to bring back the vibrant colors and strong genetics of these breeds of fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Along with this I'm also an expert in the field of conchology, namely the study of mollusks, snails and bivalves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3735 From: joequality1980 Date: 7/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: prawn/lobster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hello,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Have a 20gal tank with various peaceful community fish. Recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                acquired a blue claw "lobster" (Macrobrachium rosenbergii I think),
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thinking it would keep to itself much like smaller shrimp.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                When my back was turned, however, the prawn managed to kill/eat a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                small cory cat, 2 dwarf African frogs, and I suspect a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mosquito fish is gone too. Most of the other fish are larger (black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                phantom tetras, gouramis, an angelfish, some otos) and I think/hope
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the lobster wont be able to mess with them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Any thoughts on this? Are the other fish safe or should I try and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                isolate this beast? (it is about 4 inches long)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ~Joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3736 From: Robb Rouse Date: 7/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Greetings like to introduce myself
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Welcome Mark.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Just wondering have any photos of the fish you are talking about?  They sound awesome.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Robb
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 12:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Greetings like to introduce myself

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've been a fishkeeper for around 25 yrs , my group of interest is gouramis (labyrinths) including paradise fish and a few other smaller groups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Correctly I'm involved in a regimentive breeding program using wild caught Marcopodus Ocularius (sp) directly air freighted from Thailand . The program is exceeding my wildest expectations. The fry are now at about 13 mm. The parents are very strong and will draw blood if you disturb them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm also breeding Trichogastor Pectoralis, Trichogaster mircoeplis, Trichogastor Leeri (super wild caught, color unbelievable) and Pseudophromenus dayi (Spiketail Paradise).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                After seeing the decline of the gouramis in the pet trade due to inbreeding and lack of concern I decided to try a grass roots level program to bring back the vibrant colors and strong genetics of these breeds of fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Along with this I'm also an expert in the field of conchology, namely the study of mollusks, snails and bivalves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                mbethke@...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3737 From: Tim Walker Date: 7/26/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I think you've got a fish catcher on your hands and you should isolate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ASAP - at least if you don't want it to be a crayfish tank rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a fish tank :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've seen crayfish grab onto much larger in motion fish and even if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                they didn't kill the fish outright, the damage they end up with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                eventually can...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Tim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                On 27/07/2004, at 4:47 AM, joequality1980 wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Have a 20gal tank with various peaceful community fish. Recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > acquired a blue claw "lobster" (Macrobrachium rosenbergii I think),
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > thinking it would keep to itself much like smaller shrimp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > When my back was turned, however, the prawn managed to kill/eat a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > small cory cat, 2 dwarf African frogs, and I suspect a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > mosquito fish is gone too. Most of the other fish are larger (black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > phantom tetras, gouramis, an angelfish, some otos) and I think/hope
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the lobster wont be able to mess with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Any thoughts on this? Are the other fish safe or should I try and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > isolate this beast? (it is about 4 inches long)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ~Joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3738 From: paul helms Date: 7/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the australian blue lobsterthat you bought will grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                very large, and is capable of killing fish 3 times it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                size.....take it back lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- Tim Walker <twalker@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I think you've got a fish catcher on your hands and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > you should isolate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ASAP - at least if you don't want it to be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > crayfish tank rather than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > a fish tank :-)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I've seen crayfish grab onto much larger in motion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish and even if
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > they didn't kill the fish outright, the damage they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > end up with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > eventually can...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Tim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > On 27/07/2004, at 4:47 AM, joequality1980 wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Hello,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Have a 20gal tank with various peaceful community
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > fish. Recently
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > acquired a blue claw "lobster" (Macrobrachium
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > rosenbergii I think),
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > thinking it would keep to itself much like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > smaller shrimp.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > When my back was turned, however, the prawn
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > managed to kill/eat a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > small cory cat, 2 dwarf African frogs, and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > suspect a small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > mosquito fish is gone too. Most of the other fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > are larger (black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > phantom tetras, gouramis, an angelfish, some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > otos) and I think/hope
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > the lobster wont be able to mess with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Any thoughts on this? Are the other fish safe or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > should I try and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > isolate this beast? (it is about 4 inches long)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > Thanks in advance,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > > ~Joe
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                __________________________________
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3739 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                while that's clearly true for this one, it isn't for all of them, some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                are quite peaceful and able to live harmoniously with fish, even small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ones. it depends on the individual.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                On Jul 27, 2004, at 1:02 PM, paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the australian blue lobsterthat you bought will grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > very large, and is capable of killing fish 3 times it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > size.....take it back lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > --- Tim Walker <twalker@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3740 From: joequality1980 Date: 7/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                thanks everyone for the advice. After 5 total deaths, I had to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                return the bastard. if I had another tank I would keep him, since
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                they seem very interesting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3741 From: Seti Date: 7/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I was thinking about getting some glass catfish; my tank is a planted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                30 gal with 6 zebra danios and 8 corys in it. Does anyone have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                experience with these fish? Any advice/feedback will be appreciated. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                heard that they were fairly sensitive to the water conditions, that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                they need to be kept in a group, and prefer live foods. Would they be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a good choice for a beginner like myself, or should I go with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "easier" fish?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3742 From: renee31477 Date: 7/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: fish that threatened national security...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Here's an article I got from a friend....a good story...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03362/255283.stm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Renee in MI

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                TT the betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Joey the pleco
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Maize and Blue the apple snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Zuzu the parrotlet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Turty the box turtle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Kasey the cat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3743 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: fish that threatened national security...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It is a shame what this country has been reduced to....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From: "renee31477" <renee31477@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 5:50 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] fish that threatened national
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                security...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Here's an article I got from a friend....a good story...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03362/255283.stm
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Renee in MI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > TT the betta
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Joey the pleco
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Maize and Blue the apple snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Zuzu the parrotlet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Turty the box turtle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Kasey the cat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3744 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 7/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: quaranteening cray fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I just bought some wild caught cray fish on aqua bid to live with and possibly get eaten by my turtles.  I have been told that they might harbor nematodes and/or other parasited but no one can be sure.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I was thinking of quaranteening them and maybe treating them with something before putting them in my turtle tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    any ideas on how to achieve this? what to treat them? what the dangers might be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3745 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/27/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i've had a bunch, and they're really great fish. no too sensitive
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                really but they do need to be in groups to feel safe. one note, you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have to watch for is their color. a healthy one will be almost
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                invisible except for the head. the second they take a bad turn, the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                body will first become "rainbow" like, and then a bit milky. this can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                really help in identifying sick ones in the store and when you get them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                home as well :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                On Jul 27, 2004, at 4:37 PM, Seti wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I was thinking about getting some glass catfish; my tank is a planted
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 30 gal with 6 zebra danios and 8 corys in it. Does anyone have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > experience with these fish? Any advice/feedback will be appreciated. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > heard that they were fairly sensitive to the water conditions, that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > they need to be kept in a group, and prefer live foods. Would they be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > a good choice for a beginner like myself, or should I go with the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "easier" fish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > ~~Seti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.generationsbeyond.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                web design, print design, corporate identity services and more...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3746 From: questnjurny Date: 7/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I had them years ago when I was a kid in my community tank. They must
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have been fairly hardy...I did take fairly good care of my tanks for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                kid who was 10 years old, but I am sure that water changes etc could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                have been a lot more frequent! They, along with black skirt tetras
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                were always in my tank, other varieties of fish came and went, but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                always had to have my glass cats! Haven't seen them in the lfs here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                lately though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Carly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3747 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Good Starter Plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I just set up a 29-gallon frestwater tank, I plan to make it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                community tank...its been running great for 3 days and I plan to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                two very hardy danios I have (from my 10-gallon) in tonight so they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                can help kick off the nitrogen cycle for the next few weeks...Id
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                love to have live plants but I want to start slow, maybe just one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                hardy one. Any suggestions on what type of plant I could try, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                when I should add to this to my new tank? I also heard danios (and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                some other community fish) may eat many plants...maybe someone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a good website that can hold my hand through this...thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3748 From: Xandros Desktop OS User Date: 7/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Betta old age?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've had my betta for about one and one-half to two years. He's
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                currently being kept in a 55-gallon tank. I don't think he's being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                picked on. His finnage is full length, but, there are lengthwise slits
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                in the fins. Also, his color is good except for the crown of his head,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                which seems to have a washed out look to it. (He used to have a red
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                head and beep blue body.) He's usually active, but he seems to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                spending more time just resting on the bottom of the tank. Is this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                likely just old age?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks, -Joe G.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3749 From: Seti Date: 7/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Good Starter Plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I just set up my first tank a few months ago. I knew I wanted to go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                with a planted tank, but was unsure of which plants to get. A lot
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                would depend on your lighting, some plants need high light; my light
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                is moderate, so I went with the low- to moderate-light hardy plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've got anubias, java moss, java fern, hornwort, anacharis and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                italian val, all of which are doing well. Anacharis has been growing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                like crazy from day one, this was like $2/bunch in PetSmart.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Here's a site that I found very helpful:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Other resources I've used:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://home.infinet.net/teban/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I was advised to plant my tank right away, which I did. So far, none
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of the inhabitants (danios, corys, shrimp and snails) have eaten any
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                plants. Usually if you research the fish you're interested in, you'll
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                find out if it's likely to eat plants; goldfish, cichlids and some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                plecos are notorious for that. Other than that, I'm not sure.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                ~~Seti

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "robdar4609"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                <robdar4609@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I just set up a 29-gallon frestwater tank, I plan to make it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > community tank...its been running great for 3 days and I plan to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > two very hardy danios I have (from my 10-gallon) in tonight so they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > can help kick off the nitrogen cycle for the next few weeks...Id
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > love to have live plants but I want to start slow, maybe just one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > hardy one. Any suggestions on what type of plant I could try, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > when I should add to this to my new tank? I also heard danios (and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > some other community fish) may eat many plants...maybe someone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > a good website that can hold my hand through this...thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3750 From: Patrick Date: 7/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Make sure not to get the painted glass fish, they have been injected with die that makes the fish die a painful death, and the survivors are usually sick and die sooner than non-painted kinds.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3751 From: debgspz Date: 7/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Large Snail Eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hi,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have some clutches of snail eggs that I can send to anyone who would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  like to hatch them. These guys are much larger then apple snails and I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  just cant remember the name of them but I bought 5 from a site on the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  internet and I made the mistake of letting a whole cluster of eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hatch so I became over populated due to their size. They were very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  expensive to buy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  They grow to the size of a baseball, they are dark brown in color,the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  eggs are almost a reddish color they do eat plants and vegtables. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  feed mine veggies and spirilina. They are so large they actually pick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  up the food to eat it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If anyone is interested in eggs, I would suggest you only hatch some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of the eggs, not all or you will not have the room to house them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  comfortably.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This is kind of a last minute notice because if no one wants them I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  have to take them out of my tank so if you ARE interested in having me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mail some to you, all I ask is that you send me a self addressed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  stamped envelope and a pill bottle and I will place the eggs in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bottle and mail the eggs back to you. I will also tell you how to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  hatch them in your tank. The eggs hatch outside of the water, its very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  simple. Just hurry if your interested.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I also do have apple snail eggs if anyone is interested. Again, all
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  you need to so is send me a self addressed stamped envelope with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  pill bottle that will fit inside. This is the safest way to send the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  snails, by placing them in a pill bottle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Debbie



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My email addy is DebGspz@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3752 From: Seti Date: 7/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  No, no painted glassfish for me...I think these are different from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  glass (or ghost) catfish; I remember reading somewhere that glassfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  were more of a brackish water fish. And I certainly think that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  injecting fish with dyes is just plain cruel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ~~Seti


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Make sure not to get the painted glass fish, they have been
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  injected
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > with die that makes the fish die a painful death, and the survivors are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > usually sick and die sooner than non-painted kinds.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3753 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/28/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Good Starter Plants
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wouldn't worry about danio's eating plants , I've never seen them bother
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the plants , I would not worry about type plants, stay away from the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  difficult ones like the managascar lace, they are a pain in the ass, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  just about everything else grows well if you give them deep enough substrate
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (3-4 inches of quartz sand IMHO) and good light.Amazon swords are "Iffy" ,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  they are marginal plants sold as aquatic and some do well some don't. but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  cabomba is a good one, anubus is a hardy plants, it's hard to kill off.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Anyways, plants are not something to be worried about , they are actually a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  back-up filter sytem and help to maintain a well balanced aquarium. Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: "robdar4609" <robdar4609@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 5:35 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Good Starter Plants


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I just set up a 29-gallon frestwater tank, I plan to make it a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > community tank...its been running great for 3 days and I plan to put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > two very hardy danios I have (from my 10-gallon) in tonight so they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > can help kick off the nitrogen cycle for the next few weeks...Id
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > love to have live plants but I want to start slow, maybe just one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > hardy one. Any suggestions on what type of plant I could try, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > when I should add to this to my new tank? I also heard danios (and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > some other community fish) may eat many plants...maybe someone knows
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > a good website that can hold my hand through this...thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3754 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Greetings like to introduce myself
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you for responding Robb,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Photos will be coming soon, small system problem with a NTFS in the HDD's ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Also upgraded to a S7000 digital SLR and they take a bit of getting used to .
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But I'll see what I can prepare,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  All the best, Mark Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Robb Rouse
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 3:07 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Greetings like to introduce myself

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Welcome Mark.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just wondering have any photos of the fish you are talking about?  They sound awesome.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Robb
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 12:22 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Greetings like to introduce myself

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've been a fishkeeper for around 25 yrs , my group of interest is gouramis (labyrinths) including paradise fish and a few other smaller groups.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Correctly I'm involved in a regimentive breeding program using wild caught Marcopodus Ocularius (sp) directly air freighted from Thailand . The program is exceeding my wildest expectations. The fry are now at about 13 mm. The parents are very strong and will draw blood if you disturb them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm also breeding Trichogastor Pectoralis, Trichogaster mircoeplis, Trichogastor Leeri (super wild caught, color unbelievable) and Pseudophromenus dayi (Spiketail Paradise).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  After seeing the decline of the gouramis in the pet trade due to inbreeding and lack of concern I decided to try a grass roots level program to bring back the vibrant colors and strong genetics of these breeds of fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Along with this I'm also an expert in the field of conchology, namely the study of mollusks, snails and bivalves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mark James Bethke
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  8450 Canby Ave.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Northridge, CA
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  91325 3704
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  U.S.A.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mbethke@...


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3755 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: algae back!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  last time I had algae it was green, this time its like brown? I put my Siamese algae fish in there for the tine being, but what's up with this brown algae? Its all over my plants (plastic and silk of course) all over the glass and decorations. It just developed the last 2 days. There are 10 fish in the tank, its fully cycled! thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3756 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: 2 Nanos reef´s in forum!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Agora no fórum AquaBahia dois nanos Reef´s Pic´s um de Esteves e outro de Jccsfilho, vale a pena a visita!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Veja maiores detalhes no fórum:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As fotos em:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Montagem de Nano - jccsfilho
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Se você não for um usuário registrado no fórum clique no link abaixo e realize seu registro, é fácil rápido e gratuito:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Abraços,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3757 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: baby male guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes this is normal when you let your guppies breed all willy-nilly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (HA!). what im saying is when you cross lines it is very common for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  this to happen, because you are remixing the genes to be more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  inclusive instead of isolating out specific characteristic color
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  patterns.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Dattilo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "keithblackketter"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <keithblackketter@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I had a batch of baby guppies, well I am able to sort the males
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the females now, but the males are appearing to have the color of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > wild variety, i was wondering if this is normal, with guppies in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > captivity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3758 From: robdar4609 Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Betta/Mirror
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have a 10-gallon tank with a mirror back..I have a couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  marble mollies (short fins) and gold sword tails (short fins), so I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  put my betta in this tank with them...the only issue is the mirror
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  back, the beta see's itself and is always trying to fight itself, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  expected this...but I thought it would stop after it realized there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  was no fish there. My Betta stayed in the same place in the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fighting its own reflection for one full day...so I took him out and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  returned to samll bowl fearing too much stress...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Should I have kept him there longer than a day? Would he calm down?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Or should I just remove the mirror backing?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3759 From: Keith blackketter Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: baby male guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ok thanks, so next question, how do i get the male varieties that are out there now, from the stock i have??, or do i have to get rid of these males, and get the fancy type again??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  keith

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  highwaychilde@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yes this is normal when you let your guppies breed all willy-nilly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (HA!).  what im saying is when you cross lines it is very common for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  this to happen, because you are remixing the genes to be more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  inclusive instead of isolating out specific characteristic color
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  patterns. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Dattilo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "keithblackketter"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <keithblackketter@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I had a batch of baby guppies, well I am able to sort the males
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the females now, but the males are appearing to have the color of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > wild variety, i was wondering if this is normal, with guppies in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > captivity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > keith



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3760 From: Angela Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hiya,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I posted a pic and id like to see if anyone can identify it for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  me!! The pic was sent to me by a friend in florida, he says that he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  took it away from a gator(no lie) but that he can not figure out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  what it is!! Please help!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thanks

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ang
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3761 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: I think one of my mollies is dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I glanced over at my tank a few minutes ago, and one of my adult mollies was upside down, nose against the gravel, motionless, kinda leaning against the driftwood.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I went to go net her, thinking she was dead, and when the edge of the net brushed against her, she swam away. But now she keeps ending up with her nose against the gravel, not moving much unless the male (who's been pestering ALL the females lately) nips at her sides.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think she is dying, but don't know why.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I did a partial water change today, and she has no external signs of anything wrong. I guess she's just getting old, she's pretty big and is the more submissive of the two adult mollies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm going to keep an eye on her, I can't isolate her because my hospital tank has no filter, and there are babies (two left of the original four) in the breeder box.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3762 From: paul helms Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  how much light does the tank get?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- simonsmommy0117@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > last time I had algae it was green, this time its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > like brown? I put my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Siamese algae fish in there for the tine being, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > what's up with this brown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > algae? Its all over my plants (plastic and silk of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > course) all over the glass and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > decorations. It just developed the last 2 days.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > There are 10 fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tank, its fully cycled! thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3763 From: paul helms Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  your statement about the fish dying a painful death is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  a bit naive. your own beliefs which are not founded
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  with any data are a bit ridiculous. number one, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  do not have the same breain function as humans, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  are believed to not really feel pain, as they continue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to act normally even wiith largem chunks of flesh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  being bitten out of their bodies. they do not have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  shorter life than an un "painted" glass. they live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  just as long. if you want to assume that they feel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  pain in the same way, do peopel die a painful death
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  froim tattoos? they are only stuck with 1 needle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and one more thing, DIE is a term for death not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  coloration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- Patrick <americanfishguy@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Make sure not to get the painted glass fish,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > they have been injected
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > with die that makes the fish die a painful death,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > and the survivors are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > usually sick and die sooner than non-painted kinds.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nitrogen Cycle:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://americanfishguy.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > -About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > glolights, 2 neons and 3 black
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > raised guppy, 4 ottos,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > betta, and 1 paradise
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > inexperienced fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > banana plants, java ferns,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 30-60 power filter. Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2�, pH 6.4.




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3764 From: paul helms Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i have not seen one yet that lived peaceful with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  anything. i sell them all the time to customers, who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  usually think it will be different in their tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  regret the purchase despite the warnings.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > while that's clearly true for this one, it isn't for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > all of them, some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > are quite peaceful and able to live harmoniously
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > with fish, even small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ones. it depends on the individual.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > On Jul 27, 2004, at 1:02 PM, paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > the australian blue lobsterthat you bought will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > very large, and is capable of killing fish 3 times
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > size.....take it back lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > --- Tim Walker <twalker@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3765 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: prawn/lobster
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i had a 6" one, larger than all but one of my fish who lived very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  peacefully with all of his tankmates until his death. a very sweet
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  little thing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On Jul 30, 2004, at 2:36 AM, paul helms wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > i have not seen one yet that lived peaceful with
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > anything.  i sell them all the time to customers, who
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > usually think it will be different in their tank and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > regret the purchase despite the warnings.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- amalthea23 <amalthea23@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > while that's clearly true for this one, it isn't for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > all of them, some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > are quite peaceful and able to live harmoniously
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > with fish, even small
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > ones. it depends on the individual.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > On Jul 27, 2004, at 1:02 PM, paul helms wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > the australian blue  lobsterthat you bought will
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > grow
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > very large, and is capable of killing fish 3 times
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > size.....take it back lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > --- Tim Walker <twalker@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >            
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Service.
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  religion....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3766 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 7/29/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I keep the light on half the day. 12 hours on 12 off, but sometimes i shut it off at night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3767 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Foi adicionado no forum a matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi para o
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Agora no fórum AquaBahia a matéria completa sobre meu aquário que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ps.: 2º colocado no CBAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Veja maiores detalhes no fórum:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As fotos em:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Se você não for um usuário registrado no fórum clique no link abaixo e realize seu registro, é fácil rápido e gratuito:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Abraços,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  GATTI
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3768 From: hazyhumid2 Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: filter suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We are in the market for a new filter system.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We currently have a hand me down aqua something 500

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  We have a 55 gallon tank.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  DH thinks it is to loud (unless we are doing something wrong?). I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  not thrilled for other reasons and when I was doing my fish homework
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  months ago...I though there was something much better out....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I heard a bio wheel is the best???

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is that true? and if so is there a certain manufacturer? I just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  glanced at petsmart.com but what I see is priced much lower than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  one I glanced at at Petco a month or so back..so I may be confused.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is it quiet?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Suggestions/opinons welcome, Thanks in advance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Also do people stay away from Wardley products? I had a bad test kit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  from them, now I purched Wardley mini pellets and the fish wont eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  them...spit back out! Should I take this as a sign? LOL

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am also open to better more trusted brand names...thanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3769 From: frbstrd@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Aqua clear filter are noisy if your tank water level is low  or you have air trapped in the impeller area causing cavitation. The quietest filter i know of are either internal filters or canister filters -Dave
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3770 From: Paulo Gatti Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no forum a mat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  direct link!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 8:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no forum a matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Agora no fórum AquaBahia a matéria completa sobre meu aquário que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ps.: 2º colocado no CBAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Veja maiores detalhes no fórum:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As fotos em:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Se você não for um usuário registrado no fórum clique no link abaixo e realize seu registro, é fácil rápido e gratuito:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Abraços,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  GATTI


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3771 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no forum a mat

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is this not SPAM?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Paulo Gatti [mailto:apmgjr@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: 30 July 2004 13:47
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no forum a matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  direct link!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Paulo Gatti

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 8:01 AM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no forum a matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Agora no fórum AquaBahia a matéria completa sobre meu aquário que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ps.: 2º colocado no CBAP

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Veja maiores detalhes no fórum:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As fotos em:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Abraços,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  GATTI



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          





                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3772 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well with no live plants in the aquarium to consume all of the nitrates produced by the nitrogen cycle in your tank the alagea are consuming it instead and flourishing as a result.  Put in some live plants or I guess more water changes would help too.  For now you can clean the algae off the glass with a scarper and off the sil and plastic plants with bleach. Just makes sure you rinse them very well before putting them back in.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 7/29/2004 12:04:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, simonsmommy0117@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  last time I had algae it was green, this time its like brown? I put my Siamese algae fish in there for the tine being, but what's up with this brown algae? Its all over my plants (plastic and silk of course) all over the glass and decorations. It just developed the last 2 days. There are 10 fish in the tank, its fully cycled! thanks


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3773 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Any and every filter can be noisy if it traps air or it flowing water above
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the tank water level. Biowheels are good filters in terms of Biological
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  filtration. They are horrible in terms of mechanical filtration and tend to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  get very easily clogged and become inefficient in the absence of a proper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  mechanical filter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  IMO/E I would assume that canister filters, despite their high cost are the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  easiest filters to maintain and manipulate. They can be fully customized to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  your filter requirement and are generally quiet unless there is a problem in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  its impellor or there is an airlock.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  A mechanical canister in combination with a biowheel sounds like a very good
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  option but I don't know how well compatible it is. Biowheel should be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  regarded only as a biological filter and nothing else on its own, just like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Fluidized sand bed filters etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Not tried any Wardley products except chlorout which does seem to work fine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for me so cannot suggest anything more then this :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >From: hazyhumid2 [mailto:my-destiny@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Sent: 30 July 2004 13:26
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] filter suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >We are in the market for a new filter system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >We currently have a hand me down aqua something 500
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >We have a 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >DH thinks it is to loud (unless we are doing something wrong?). I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >not thrilled for other reasons and when I was doing my fish homework
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >months ago...I though there was something much better out....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >I heard a bio wheel is the best???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Is that true? and if so is there a certain manufacturer? I just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >glanced at petsmart.com but what I see is priced much lower than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >one I glanced at at Petco a month or so back..so I may be confused.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Is it quiet?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Suggestions/opinons welcome, Thanks in advance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Also do people stay away from Wardley products? I had a bad test kit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >from them, now I purched Wardley mini pellets and the fish wont eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >them...spit back out! Should I take this as a sign? LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >I am also open to better more trusted brand names...thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Thank you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3774 From: Andreas1Group@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Betta/Mirror
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The fish will NEVER catch on to the fact its a reflection, the only animal that is not fooled by a mirror is a chimpanzee or possibly other high primate. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Andreas
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 7/29/2004 1:26:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, robdar4609@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have a 10-gallon tank with a mirror back..I have a couple of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  marble mollies (short fins) and gold sword tails (short fins), so I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  put my betta in this tank with them...the only issue is the mirror
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  back, the beta see's itself and is always trying to fight itself, I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  expected this...but I thought it would stop after it realized there
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  was no fish there.  My Betta stayed in the same place in the tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  fighting its own reflection for one full day...so I took him out and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  returned to samll bowl fearing too much stress...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Should I have kept him there longer than a day? Would he calm down? 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Or should I just remove the mirror backing?



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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3775 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That is a Bluegill (Lepomis macrochirus), A very nice sized one at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Dattilo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Angela"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <angjo72@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Hiya,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I posted a pic and id like to see if anyone can identify it for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > me!! The pic was sent to me by a friend in florida, he says that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  he
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > took it away from a gator(no lie) but that he can not figure out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > what it is!! Please help!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Ang
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3776 From: highwaychilde@yahoo.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: baby male guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Most guppy breeders would cull these males from the stock but are you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  entering a guppy judging contest? In my opinion they are
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  still "fancy" guppys since they still have the long fins. You could
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  just continue breeding them and putting together the ones you like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  that have the color patterns you like but ofcoarse the simple way is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  to get new stock that has the patterns you like, but what fun is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  that? You are still likely to get less desireable ones than
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  others. So I would continue to breed them at random and see what
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  happens, you can end up with very cool guppies, but this depends on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  what your goal is. There are a lot of web pages devoted to guppies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and breeding, I would start there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Dattilo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  blackketter <keithblackketter@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ok thanks, so next question, how do i get the male varieties that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  are out there now, from the stock i have??, or do i have to get rid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  of these males, and get the fancy type again??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > highwaychilde@y... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Yes this is normal when you let your guppies breed all willy-nilly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > (HA!). what im saying is when you cross lines it is very common
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > this to happen, because you are remixing the genes to be more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > inclusive instead of isolating out specific characteristic color
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > patterns.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Dattilo
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- In
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "keithblackketter"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > <keithblackketter@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I had a batch of baby guppies, well I am able to sort the males
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > the females now, but the males are appearing to have the color of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > wild variety, i was wondering if this is normal, with guppies in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > captivity
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3777 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: algae back!!!!endless battle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Algae, a simple problem, kill all flora, then again, you end up killing off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  your plants and some fish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I have found that to not have algae is basically impossible. Yea, here comes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the millions of "I'm wrong and here's the magic cure" statements.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There are so many algae kills in the LFS and they all do about the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  thing, if you use enough to kill off the algae you end up killing off your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  plants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Here's some possible causes of algae blooms

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1) Sometimes the problem is simply to much nutrients from feeding your fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  too much

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2) Wrong lighting/worn out lights/ light of the wrong wavelength/ lights on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  too long

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3) PO4 [potassium] kicked up in your local water supply , the municipalities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  do this keep their water mains from getting damaged in the warmer months.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4) too much sunlight

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  5) unknown reasons

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  So with so many possibilities finding a cure is a test in futility.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What some do is scrub away as much algae as possible to loosen it up then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  add Kent Freshwater Pro-Clear which binds it up and deposits it in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  filter. You'll see the results in the filter elements as there will be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bunch of green "Scum" in there..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hope some of this helps. BTW, I'd go the route of lighten up on the feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  , if your light bulbs are over a yr old change them, if the tank is getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  allot of sunlight use foil to block the sunlight off, and lastly don't use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  algaecide, it just doesn't work except to mess up your tanks balance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mark




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:27 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] algae back!!!!!!


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > how much light does the tank get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- simonsmommy0117@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > last time I had algae it was green, this time its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > like brown? I put my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Siamese algae fish in there for the tine being, but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > what's up with this brown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > algae? Its all over my plants (plastic and silk of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > course) all over the glass and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > decorations. It just developed the last 2 days.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > There are 10 fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > tank, its fully cycled! thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3778 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As has already been pointed out, this is a Bluegill, a member of the North American Sunfish family which are native fish and not a tropical which may have escaped from a local farm. Their larger relatives, the black Bass (Largemouth, Smallmouth, Kentucky Spotted, etc.) are gamefish. SS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3779 From: gorhka Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "hazyhumid2"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > We are in the market for a new filter system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > We currently have a hand me down aqua something 500
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > We have a 55 gallon tank.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Try Magnum 350 Pro Canister. Drs. Foster has them for $99 plus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  shipping. I have seem them locally for between 160 to 200. On-line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  is the best way to buy hardware (Sorry LFSs).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  .cfm?pcatid=3595&D=magnum%20350&R=24087&Ntt=magnum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  %20350&Ntk=All&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+ma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  tchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If the above link does not work goto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.drsfostersmith.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  and search for: Magnum 350 Pro System

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It is rated for upto 100 gallons and I have two on my 100 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  it would work great for you 55.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3780 From: paul helms Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: algae back!!!!endless battle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  great advice mark!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the only thing that i would add to that is to get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  good algae eater, or a good snail popultaion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- Mark & Peta <mbethke@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Algae, a simple problem, kill all flora, then again,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > you end up killing off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > your plants and some fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I have found that to not have algae is basically
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > impossible. Yea, here comes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the millions of "I'm wrong and here's the magic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > cure" statements.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > There are so many algae kills in the LFS and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > all do about the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > thing, if you use enough to kill off the algae you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > end up killing off your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Here's some possible causes of algae blooms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 1) Sometimes the problem is simply to much nutrients
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > from feeding your fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 2) Wrong lighting/worn out lights/ light of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > wrong wavelength/ lights on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > too long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 3) PO4 [potassium] kicked up in your local water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > supply , the municipalities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > do this keep their water mains from getting damaged
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > in the warmer months.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 4) too much sunlight
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 5) unknown reasons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > So with so many possibilities finding a cure is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > test in futility.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > What some do is scrub away as much algae as possible
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > to loosen it up then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > add Kent Freshwater Pro-Clear which binds it up and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > deposits it in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > filter. You'll see the results in the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > elements as there will be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > bunch of green "Scum" in there..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Hope some of this helps. BTW, I'd go the route of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > lighten up on the feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > , if your light bulbs are over a yr old change them,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > if the tank is getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > allot of sunlight use foil to block the sunlight
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > off, and lastly don't use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > algaecide, it just doesn't work except to mess up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > your tanks balance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:27 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > back!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > how much light does the tank get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > --- simonsmommy0117@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > last time I had algae it was green, this time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > like brown? I put my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > Siamese algae fish in there for the tine being,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > what's up with this brown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > algae? Its all over my plants (plastic and silk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > course) all over the glass and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > decorations. It just developed the last 2 days.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > There are 10 fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > tank, its fully cycled! thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3781 From: paul helms Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  if the tank is not full or if the impeller is dirty,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  the filters can make noise. aquaclear 500 is a great
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  filter and should easily run very well for 4 or more
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  years. as for the bio wheel, it does 2 jobs. first
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  is the back filter, similar to the aquaclear, but in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  my personal opinion AQUA CLEAR is a better built
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  product. the second part is the actual whell which
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  grows beneficial bacteria. this part functions like
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  an undergravel filter. it is not as effective as an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  undergravel filter for a few reasons. (and of course
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  an undergravel filters can become clogged and needs to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  be upgraded to powerheads to pull enough wtaer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  through. running an air pump just does not run it at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  peak)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. plain and simple- the size. the biological
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  surface area is very small on the bio wheel. when
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  using an undergravel filter, you biological bed is the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  length and width of your tank and about 1/3 of an inch
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  high.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. the only food source for the bacteria is being
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  pulling from is the middle of the tank, and debris is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  left on the bottom of the tank, which an under gravel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  filter, running efficiently, will clean up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3. if the biowheel gets bumped or becomes crooked it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  does not spin, and then does nothing

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i am not saying that bio wheels are not good, i would
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  just never use one as a stand alone filtration system,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  as they do not have enough of a bacterial colony to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  handle large changes in the tanks chemistry (which do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  happen, especially to newbies, lol), but in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  combination with another filter, they make for a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  nearly bullet proof tank. the more biologic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  filtration the better.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -- hazyhumid2 <my-destiny@...> wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > We are in the market for a new filter system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > We currently have a hand me down aqua something 500
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > We have a 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > DH thinks it is to loud (unless we are doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > something wrong?). I am
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > not thrilled for other reasons and when I was doing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > my fish homework
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > months ago...I though there was something much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > better out....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I heard a bio wheel is the best???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Is that true? and if so is there a certain
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > manufacturer? I just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > glanced at petsmart.com but what I see is priced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > much lower than the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > one I glanced at at Petco a month or so back..so I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > may be confused.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Is it quiet?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Suggestions/opinons welcome, Thanks in advance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Also do people stay away from Wardley products? I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > had a bad test kit
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > from them, now I purched Wardley mini pellets and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the fish wont eat
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > them...spit back out! Should I take this as a sign?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I am also open to better more trusted brand
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > names...thanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Thank you.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  __________________________________
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3782 From: paul helms Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  try to keeping it on 12- 14 hours a day, and use a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  timer to keep it regular. sometimes brown algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  occurs when there is not enough light to keep the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  greener varieties alive and kicking.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  --- simonsmommy0117@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > I keep the light on half the day. 12 hours on 12
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > off, but sometimes i shut
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > it off at night
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >





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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3783 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: filter suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i have a 55 gallon and i run both an emperor double biowheel and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  filstar canister and they're both very quiet and effective. my fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  seem extremely happy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  On Jul 30, 2004, at 11:40 AM, gorhka wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "hazyhumid2"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > <my-destiny@s...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > We are in the market for a new filter system.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > We currently have a hand me down aqua something 500
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > We have a 55 gallon tank.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Try Magnum 350 Pro Canister.   Drs. Foster has them for $99 plus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > shipping.  I have seem them locally for between 160 to 200.  On-line
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > is the best way to buy hardware (Sorry LFSs).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > .cfm?pcatid=3595&D=magnum%20350&R=24087&Ntt=magnum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > %20350&Ntk=All&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+ma
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > tchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > If the above link does not work goto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > http://www.drsfostersmith.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > and search for: Magnum 350 Pro System
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > It is rated for upto 100 gallons and I have two on my 100 gallon tank,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > it would work great for you 55.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Keith
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.amaltheasattic.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3784 From: Audrey Archer Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algae / Snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hmm... I have algae in my tank, too. Have to scrape the usual dots off the front and sides every week, and this week (after adding a DIY CO2 canister made from a 2 litre soda bottle with sugar water, baking soda, and yeast, with an airstone to diffuse it into the tank - to help the plants compete with the algae, was my thought; it has brought my high pH back down to 7.2, though)now have noticed some STRINGY algae as well. I do 15% weekly water changes. Can't get my nitrates to read lower than 30 - 40 ppm, although my info I got about the oto said they prefer less than 20 ppm nitrates. Ammonia and nitrite both stable at 0. Ten gallons, planted with 6 Aponogetons, 3 dwarf lilies, about five stems of Cabomba, a mass of Riccia, and a patch of Java Moss. Plants have not really reduced nitrates one bit since my original 50% water change at completion of my fishless cycle. Seems the more plants I try to add, the more algae I get. Fish population, 2 dwarf Gouramis (powder blue male, regular female, 2 inches), 5 golden white clouds (1.5 inches), 1 otocinclus cat (1 inch long), and a mess of new baby snails (unidentified gilled species I found in my riccia in my quarantine tank - full grown they are no bigger than a piece of my decorative style gravel, and they are a clear amber in color; may have some spots according to Erin, but my eyes are not good; and the shell spirals counter clockwise - opening on the front left, dull point in the rear).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ok, so questions:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. If plants are not reducing nitrates, and water changes are not reducing nitrates, what other measures will help?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. Snail gurus, do you know what I have? The Riccia that contained the eggs came from Plants2U in Florida.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:35:32 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: Andreas1Group@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Well with no live plants in the aquarium to consume all of the nitrates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  produced by the nitrogen cycle in your tank the alagea are consuming it instead and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  flourishing as a result. Put in some live plants or I guess more water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  changes would help too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3785 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: algae back!!!!endless battle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Excellant idea, watch out for those chinese algae eaters, they sometimes "Go
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Postal" and take a liking for fish flesh. don't know why. Some will never
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  bother another fish but some take up a life like a lamprey and you start
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  seeing gapping holes in your fish, the only way to keep the fish from dying
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  from the wound is a last dich effort, neoporum triple antibiotic ointment ,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  catch fich, handle with wet hands, apply to the entire wound area. do use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  for small wounds but if you have a large wound there realy isn't any other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  choice. Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 4:41 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] algae back!!!!endless battle


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > great advice mark!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > the only thing that i would add to that is to get a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > good algae eater, or a good snail popultaion.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > --- Mark & Peta <mbethke@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Algae, a simple problem, kill all flora, then again,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > you end up killing off
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > your plants and some fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > I have found that to not have algae is basically
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > impossible. Yea, here comes
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > the millions of "I'm wrong and here's the magic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > cure" statements.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > There are so many algae kills in the LFS and they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > all do about the same
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > thing, if you use enough to kill off the algae you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > end up killing off your
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Here's some possible causes of algae blooms
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > 1) Sometimes the problem is simply to much nutrients
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > from feeding your fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > too much
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > 2) Wrong lighting/worn out lights/ light of the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > wrong wavelength/ lights on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > too long
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > 3) PO4 [potassium] kicked up in your local water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > supply , the municipalities
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > do this keep their water mains from getting damaged
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > in the warmer months.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > 4) too much sunlight
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > 5) unknown reasons
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > So with so many possibilities finding a cure is a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > test in futility.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > What some do is scrub away as much algae as possible
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > to loosen it up then
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > add Kent Freshwater Pro-Clear which binds it up and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > deposits it in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > filter. You'll see the results in the filter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > elements as there will be a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > bunch of green "Scum" in there..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Hope some of this helps. BTW, I'd go the route of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > lighten up on the feeding
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > , if your light bulbs are over a yr old change them,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > if the tank is getting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > allot of sunlight use foil to block the sunlight
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > off, and lastly don't use
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > algaecide, it just doesn't work except to mess up
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > your tanks balance.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > From: "paul helms" <wtfmorlok@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:27 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > back!!!!!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > how much light does the tank get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > --- simonsmommy0117@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > > last time I had algae it was green, this time
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > its
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > > like brown? I put my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > > Siamese algae fish in there for the tine being,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > > what's up with this brown
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > > algae? Its all over my plants (plastic and silk
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > > course) all over the glass and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > > decorations. It just developed the last 2 days.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > > There are 10 fish in the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > > tank, its fully cycled! thanks
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > > >
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3786 From: bryants4god Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algae / Snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Your description sounds like planorbis aka common ramshorns.  The other common pest snail - physids have cone shaped shells. In my personal experience they don't eat algae.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. Snail gurus, do you know what I have? The Riccia that contained the eggs came from Plants2U in Florida.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3787 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In a message dated 7/30/2004 2:52:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, arch1574@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  a mess of new baby snails (unidentified gilled species I found in my riccia in my quarantine tank - full grown they are no bigger than a piece of my decorative style gravel, and they are a clear amber in color; may have some spots according to Erin, but my eyes are not good; and the shell spirals counter clockwise - opening on the front left, dull point in the rear).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ok, so questions:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. If plants are not reducing nitrates, and water changes are not reducing nitrates, what other measures will help?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. Snail gurus, do you know what I have? The Riccia that contained the eggs came from Plants2U in Florida.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  When I look *really closely* at the snails, they are transparent amber color with darker brown spots. I haven't been able to find any pictures online on snail websites that look anything like these.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Since my nitrates went up again (for some unidentified reason!) I'm eager to hear other ways of reducing nitrates. I did a 1/3 water change yesterday, and another one today when water quality test showed the nitrates at being really high. (not sure of numbers, don't have the bottle to look now ... it was the middle of the "unsafe" on the quick dip strip because that is what was available) Nitrates are lower now, but still high enough that I'll do another water change tomorrow, and nitrate levels in tap water are minimal. Nitrates are a little elevated in the betta's tank too, so that eliminates population change as cause of the nitrate increase. (I had guessed my nitrate level was due to either the new babies, or the snails that keep breeding ... but if it's happening in the betta tank, that can't be the reason.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My mollie isn't dead yet ... I wasn't sure she'd make it through the night last night, but she is still doing head-stands. After doing searches on swim-bladder disease, I've got her in the hospital tank (minus filter - just has an airline going in) with melafix and part of a fungus tablet. (the hospital tank is less than 10 gallons so I had to guesstimate on the fungus tab.) I'll keep an eye on her and  see if her condition improves.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3788 From: Patrick Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I went fishing and only caught one fish last night.  A bluegill. :)  I released it back so it could live to be caught again some day. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As has already been pointed out, this is a Bluegill, a member of the North American Sunfish family which are native fish and not a tropical which may have escaped from a local farm. Their larger relatives, the black Bass (Largemouth, Smallmouth, Kentucky Spotted, etc.) are gamefish. SS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3789 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: taking care of your aquarium plants a few questions
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    i have i dont know if the word struggled with is correct but gone through about 5 different plants that didnt do so well in my tank.. now i am onto some newer plants that have been stable and looking really good in my tank for 2 months now... well i have the tags but cant seem to locate them.. they are the very popular for a community tank plants... the one in question is the grass like plant... it is extremely tall it is over lapping on the top and growing downwards kinda like a grass tunnel if that makes sense... anyhow... some of the grass columns are having a lot of algae hair like grow off of that.. im wondering if that is because it does hang over and that is the part by the light.. my other qu estion would be.. can i just cut off the tops of the grass so that it doesnt hang over... i dont like the hang over cuase it is harder to clean the food seemse to get lost when i feed and it is limiting my hatchet fish movement.. if i cant cut the entire top off can i cut single pieces that are dying from being bent or whatnot.. thanks for any help... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3790 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae / Snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    got me thinking when i had my plastic plants i never had algae an dnow that i have live plants i got algae.. what is going on lol.. oh well i like the planted better.. shannon:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hmm... I have algae in my tank, too. Have to scrape the usual dots off the front and sides every week, and this week (after adding a DIY CO2 canister made from a 2 litre soda bottle with sugar water, baking soda, and yeast, with an airstone to diffuse it into the tank - to help the plants compete with the algae, was my thought; it has brought my high pH back down to 7.2, though)now have noticed some STRINGY algae as well. I do 15% weekly water changes. Can't get my nitrates to read lower than 30 - 40 ppm, although my info I got about the oto said they prefer less than 20 ppm nitrates. Ammonia and nitrite both stable at 0. Ten gallons, planted with 6 Aponogetons, 3 dwarf lilies, about five stems of Cabomba, a mass of Riccia, and a patch of Java Moss. Plants have not really reduced nitrates one bit since my original 50% water change at completion of my fishless cycle. Seems the more plants I try to add, the more algae I get. Fish population, 2 dwarf Gouramis (powder blue male, regular female, 2 inches), 5 golden white clouds (1.5 inches), 1 otocinclus cat (1 inch long), and a mess of new baby snails (unidentified gilled species I found in my riccia in my quarantine tank - full grown they are no bigger than a piece of my decorative style gravel, and they are a clear amber in color; may have some spots according to Erin, but my eyes are not good; and the shell spirals counter clockwise - opening on the front left, dull point in the rear).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ok, so questions:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. If plants are not reducing nitrates, and water changes are not reducing nitrates, what other measures will help?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. Snail gurus, do you know what I have? The Riccia that contained the eggs came from Plants2U in Florida.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:35:32 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       From: Andreas1Group@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well with no live plants in the aquarium to consume all of the nitrates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    produced by the nitrogen cycle in your tank the alagea are consuming it instead and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    flourishing as a result.  Put in some live plants or I guess more water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    changes would help too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3791 From: Patrick Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am not an animal rights person, and believe animals have no rights.  I don't believe fish have feelings or emotions, but they can feel pain.  It might not be the same pain, but it is pain.  Maybe the information I have read about the dying process is wrong, but it says that most of the fish put through the process do die much sooner than those not put through the process, and many of them don't even survive the process.  I don't think you can compare this to a tattoo, a tattoo is done on human skin, not injected by a large needle under the skin of the entire back all at once.  Remember, a small needle to us is huge to a small fish.  And the process for making fruit tetras is worse, they dip them in an acid to burn the slime coat off, then dip them in the dye.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It may be ridiculous for me to say this, but I say it is ridiculous to corrupt a perfectly good looking fish with unnatural colors that may even kill fish.  Click this to go to a site that describes the process.  You can do a google search for "painted glass fish" and get a half dozen sites that give similar information with different words.  Most conclude that (just like I meant it in my previous message) dye=die.  Dye is a word connected to the death of the fish put through the dying process.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Date: 07/30/04 01:37:54
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      your statement about the fish dying a painful death is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a bit naive.  your own beliefs which are not founded
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      with any data are a bit ridiculous.  number one, fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      do not have the same breain function as humans, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      are believed to not really feel pain, as they continue
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      to act normally even wiith largem chunks of flesh
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      being bitten out of their bodies.  they do not have a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      shorter life than an un "painted" glass.  they live
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      just as long.  if you want to assume that they feel
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      pain in the same way, do peopel die a painful death
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      froim tattoos?  they are only stuck with 1 needle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      and one more thing, DIE is a term for death not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      coloration.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3792 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Does anyone have experience with glass catfish?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'll throw my 2 cents worth in here: the process of "making" glass fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      causes them, if not pain in our understanding of the word, at least
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      discomfort. I prefer to select from the wonderful variety of freshwater fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      available by way of natural development or cross breeding.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: Patrick
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:27 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Does anyone have experience
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      with glass catfish?


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I am not an animal rights person, and believe animals have no rights. I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      don't believe fish have feelings or emotions, but they can feel pain. It
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      might not be the same pain, but it is pain. Maybe the information I have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      read about the dying process is wrong, but it says that most of the fish put
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      through the process do die much sooner than those not put through the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      process, and many of them don't even survive the process. I don't think you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      can compare this to a tattoo, a tattoo is done on human skin, not injected
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      by a large needle under the skin of the entire back all at once. Remember,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      a small needle to us is huge to a small fish. And the process for making
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      fruit tetras is worse, they dip them in an acid to burn the slime coat off,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      then dip them in the dye.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It may be ridiculous for me to say this, but I say it is ridiculous to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      corrupt a perfectly good looking fish with unnatural colors that may even
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      kill fish. Click this to go to a site that describes the process. You can
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      do a google search for "painted glass fish" and get a half dozen sites that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      give similar information with different words. Most conclude that (just
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      like I meant it in my previous message) dye=die. Dye is a word connected to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      the death of the fish put through the dying process.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3793 From: Aaron Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Foi adicionado no forum a matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi par
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I clicked the link and it opened up a website with dozens of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      beautiful photos of healthy fish in planted tanks.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I do not know what language it is and cannot read it, so I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      about to censor him just because I do not know what he is saying.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It says on the home page, ..."Please feel free to post anything -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      links, photos, questions & advice." as well it used to say -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "...please post links to your photos..." until I ran out of text
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      space and deleted that part from the description recently. so it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      within the minimal guidelines of the group.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Is this not SPAM?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > _____
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > From: Paulo Gatti [mailto:apmgjr@b...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: 30 July 2004 13:47
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      forum a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=254
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > direct link!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > From: Paulo Gatti <mailto:apmgjr@b...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 8:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no forum
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3794 From: bryants4god Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Is this what you are seeing?  This is a common ramshorn.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        When I look *really closely* at the snails, they are transparent amber color with darker brown spots. I haven't been able to find any pictures online on snail websites that look anything like these.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3795 From: j.pascavage@comcast.net Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hey, Patrick,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              .....just thought that a fish that was crazy enough to live to get it's mouth-parts snagged and ripped on a fish hook....or if all fish shared those feelings, ......there's a story there. Someone wrote recently, in this list, that fish don't feel.  Also heard not too long ago that cudgeling fish off Florida was criminalized because the judge decided it's cruel. Also, a documentary some time ago recorded the sounds a Goldfish makes when it's terrified. I was in an LFS about ten years ago, and there was a scaleless catfish that had it's surface almost completely removed in little chunks by what I thought was a Yellow Tang, and I swear to GOD, that catfish looked long and hard, and directly at me with a plea in his eyes, as if to say "....can't you PLEASE, PLEASE DO something?" Had a similar experience when I inadvertantly pulled a Corydora into the opening of a vinyl-hose I was using to clean the tank. The poor guy went nose first, with a little thud, into the opening, just enough  to stop before reaching his fins, but caused enough damage that he only lasted a day or so after the accident. Afterwards, before he died, he, and only he, looked at me with that same look, as if wondering.........?   Why? What? Everything's changed?............?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------------- Original message --------------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I went fishing and only caught one fish last night. A bluegill. :) I released it back so it could live to be caught again some day.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -About my tank: 29 gallon tank. I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami. I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter. Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2�, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As has already been pointed out, this is a Bluegill, a member of the North American Sunfish family which are native fish and not a tropical which may have escaped from a local farm. Their larger relatives, the black Bass (Largemouth, Smallmouth, Kentucky Spotted, etc.) are gamefish. SS






                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3796 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that is a relaly good pic but i know you werent asking me the question  but i was thinking that is what i had but those are not what i have either they have a spiral shells... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3797 From: Aaron Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hi All,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Just waching the Television and the Movie "About A Boy" is on and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        the character played by Hugh Grant lives in this place with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Large 'Window in a Wall' tank that lets you see through the wall and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        out the window.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I have noticed alot of movies and TV shows that feature aquariums as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        part of the set.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Can you list any shows that you've seen aquariums in, especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        those that played an integral part of the script, i.e. "Duece
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Bigelow", etc...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Have a great weekend,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3798 From: Aaron Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Cradle to the Grave" just came on, large tank in opening fight scene


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Hi All,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Just waching the Television and the Movie "About A Boy" is on and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > the character played by Hugh Grant lives in this place with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Large 'Window in a Wall' tank that lets you see through the wall
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > out the window.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > I have noticed alot of movies and TV shows that feature aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > part of the set.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Can you list any shows that you've seen aquariums in, especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > those that played an integral part of the script, i.e. "Duece
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Bigelow", etc...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Have a great weekend,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3799 From: Gary Calhoun Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lethal Weapon (4 I think) had a LARGE tank owned by the villain.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From: "Aaron" <massagetherapist@...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:24 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > "Cradle to the Grave" just came on, large tank in opening fight scene
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Hi All,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Just waching the Television and the Movie "About A Boy" is on and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > the character played by Hugh Grant lives in this place with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Large 'Window in a Wall' tank that lets you see through the wall
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > out the window.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > I have noticed alot of movies and TV shows that feature aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > part of the set.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Can you list any shows that you've seen aquariums in, especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > those that played an integral part of the script, i.e. "Duece
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Bigelow", etc...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Have a great weekend,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3800 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Lethal Weapon (4 I think) had a LARGE tank owned by the villain.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        yeah.. mel gibson shoots the tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        & water  & fish go everywhere ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3801 From: bryants4god Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Here are 2 more with spiral shells and 1 of a grown ramshorn.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Are either of the first 2 what you have?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com [mailto:agentscullyeyore@aol.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 8:00 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          that is a relaly good pic but i know you werent asking me the question  but i was thinking that is what i had but those are not what i have either they have a spiral shells... shannon

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3802 From: Mark & Peta Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Well you have two herbivores and one omnivore . nice pics mark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 4:18 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Here are 2 more with spiral shells and 1 of a grown ramshorn.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Are either of the first 2 what you have?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com [mailto:agentscullyeyore@aol.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 8:00 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            that is a relaly good pic but i know you werent asking me the question  but i was thinking that is what i had but those are not what i have either they have a spiral shells... shannon



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3803 From: Patrick Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  After thinking about it, I no longer completely morally object to (but do still oppose) dying fish, but I still see a difference between fishing and dying.  It is hard not to feel sorry for a fish in pain (and I again do think they feel some type of pain).  I once caught a bluegill several times.  The thing actually found a way to catch the hook the same way every time.  I got tired of it and moved to a different area of the pond because I knew it was going to get itself hurt if I didn't.  A few weeks or a month later, I caught it again.  I even named it, "Stupid Fish". :)  If I remember right, I caught it a few more times after that and called him by name every time.  I have had a hook stick in me a little bit before, and I don't think it would take but once to decide not to bite the hook if I was a fish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Patrick N.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Click the link below to learn about the cycle.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -About my tank:  29 gallon tank.  I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 1 home raised guppy, 4 ottos, 2 albino and 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.  I do not recommend this setup for new or inexperienced fish keepers!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.  Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 30ppm, KH 2°, pH 6.4.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hey, Patrick,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    .....just thought that a fish that was crazy enough to live to get it's mouth-parts snagged and ripped on a fish hook....or if all fish shared those feelings, ......there's a story there. Someone wrote recently, in this list, that fish don't feel.  Also heard not too long ago that cudgeling fish off Florida was criminalized because the judge decided it's cruel. Also, a documentary some time ago recorded the sounds a Goldfish makes when it's terrified. I was in an LFS about ten years ago, and there was a scaleless catfish that had it's surface almost completely removed in little chunks by what I thought was a Yellow Tang, and I swear to GOD, that catfish looked long and hard, and directly at me with a plea in his eyes, as if to say "....can't you PLEASE, PLEASE DO something?" Had a similar experience when I inadvertantly pulled a Corydora into the opening of a vinyl-hose I was using to clean the tank. The poor guy went nose first, with a little thud, into the opening, just enough  to stop before reaching his fins, but caused enough damage that he only lasted a day or so after the accident. Afterwards, before he died, he, and only he, looked at me with that same look, as if wondering.........?   Why? What? Everything's changed?............?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Joe P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3804 From: Lisa Wells Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Hot Shots."  (Part Deux, I think.  LOL)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                William Shatner as bad guy, dunks his face into an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                aquarium full of pirhanas, comes up with one in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                his mouth.  Stupid scene, stupid movie; but right
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                now it's the ONLY one I can think of!!  LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                OMG another one just came to me.  ER, a couple
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                of seasons ago, when Abby broke up with Luka
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and moved out; she broke his huge aquarium, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                she enlisted the help of Dr. Carter to get a new one
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                in there without him finding out (didn't work, they
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                got caught by the police).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hubby just brought "Everybody Loves Raymond"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                to my attention, when Ray bought his dad an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                aquarium and it became a huge topic of debate in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                the family.  LOL
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Lisa Wells
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                SAHM to Becca, Tyler and Ashley
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'm working at home!  It can be done!  Ask me for more info!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Date: 07/30/04 20:25:55
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                "Cradle to the Grave" just came on, large tank in opening fight scene
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Hi All,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Just waching the Television and the Movie "About A Boy" is on and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > the character played by Hugh Grant lives in this place with a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Large 'Window in a Wall' tank that lets you see through the wall
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > out the window.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > I have noticed alot of movies and TV shows that feature aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > part of the set.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Can you list any shows that you've seen aquariums in, especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > those that played an integral part of the script, i.e. "Duece
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Bigelow", etc...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Have a great weekend,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Body by Peaches
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Headb y alaskanRose and Deb
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Made by Steffney 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3805 From: harry perry Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Algae, an interesting challenge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Algae is a one celled plant, except for blue green algae which is actually a bacteria that acts like an algae it is all the same in the end. Algae can only exist because there is excess nutrients in the tank. Nutrients are: light, fish waste, uneaten food, dead plants.fertilizer etc. Reoccurring algae is just a symptom of another problem. Its called apathy. It will keep coming back until you decide to learn the right way to deal with it. If this seems like too much work, give the fish back to the LFS, drain the tank and raise hamsters. Aquariums make excellent habitats for hamsters. Or start by putting your lights on a timer, try to figure out where the excess nutrients are coming from. The game plan is to out compete the algae for the nutrients. Of course this is much harder to do with plastic plants and shipwrecks and divers and treasure chests with bubbles coming out. The Chinese algae eater very rarely eats algae, the flying fox will keep the glass clean, the true sae will eat the brown algae. Wal Mart doesn't know the difference.and doesn't care. My point here is get serious or live with the problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Harry  


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3806 From: harry perry Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Algae, an interesting challenge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Algae is a one celled plant, except for blue green algae which is actually a bacteria that acts like an algae it is all the same in the end. Algae can only exist because there is excess nutrients in the tank. Nutriants are: light, fish waste, uneaten food, dead plants.fertilizer etc. Reocurring algae is just a syptom of another problem. Its called appathy. It will keep coming back until you decide to learn the right way to deal with it. If this seems like too much work, give the fish back to the LFS, drain the tank and raise hamsters. Aquariums make excellant habitats for hampsters. Or start by putting your lights on a timer, try to figure out where the excess nutriants are coming from. The game plan is to out compete the algae for the netriants. Of course this is much harder to do with plastic plants and shipwrecks and divers and treasure chests with bubbles coming out. The chinese algae eater very rarely eats algae, the flying fox will keep the glass clean, the true sae will eat the brown algae. Wal Mart doesn't know the difference.and doesn't care. My point here is get serious or live with thr problem.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Harry  


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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3807 From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Can anyone ID this fish for me???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Returning game/pan fish back to the wild is one of the best ways to conserve these species. There are some nice smaller species of sunfish (Black-Banded, Blue Spotted, etc.) from the mid-Atlantic states and several dwarf/pigmy sunfish from the southeastern states that are occasionally found in pet shops and which do well in an unheated aquarium. SS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3808 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                i think maby ei might have the first pic shown.. not sure though.. not quit grabbing me.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3809 From: simonsmommy0117@aol.com Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                SO I should get rid of my fish whom I have had for a year because I got algae? Dont think so! never said my algae eater was going to get rid of the algae. I was just curious as to what would have caused the algae, since its my first year in 15 years of fish keeping having it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3810 From: harry perry Date: 7/30/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                O.K. We have an advantage here. What changed during the year. Did you move the tank? Re: natural light. What really happened to upset the balance that you had for 15 years. B.T.W. no one believes for an instant your claim of an algae free tank from the very start. It simply can't happen.The process of cycling a tank creates it for a short period of time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Harry 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                simonsmommy0117@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                SO I should get rid of my fish whom I have had for a year because I got algae? Dont think so! never said my algae eater was going to get rid of the algae. I was just curious as to what would have caused the algae, since its my first year in 15 years of fish keeping having it


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Group: AquaticLife Message: 3811 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    this is what came on my banana plants from the pet store..only mine is more gold in color..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   was a freebie..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  it was just a tiny baby  & they didn't know it was there.. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3812 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That first pic is probably an older adult.  When they are younger the shells are more clearish and can be tan at the tip of the spiral.  The other thing is in the aquarium they are very shiny looking which may be why it doesn't look exactly like yours. (or it simply may not be what you have lol..)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:42 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i think maby ei might have the first pic shown.. not sure though.. not quit grabbing me.. shannon 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Group: AquaticLife Message: 3813 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have one more it might be, sometimes baby vivs hitch on new plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If any of you are snail freaks like me lol, I have tons of snail pictures on my online album.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3814 From: Steve Szabo Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae / Snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Have you checked your tap water for nitrates? If the tap water does not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    contain nitrates, then do some large water changes, on the order of 50-75%
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and check the nitrate levels after. If they are rising rapidly to the levels
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    you are now seeing, you will need to take a good hard look at your tank to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    determine where they may be originating from.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What is your stocking level? Too many fish could be causing the high
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nitrates--the end product of the nitrogen cycle. Food or plant matter
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    decaying in the tank may also be a source--do your fish eat all the food
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    they are given, or does some find its way to the gravel never to be eaten?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Do you vacuum your substrate when doing water changes? If not, vacuum a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    section with each water change, you may be surprised with what comes up from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the gravel. Don't vacuum more than a quarter or a third of the substrate at
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    any given water change, as you can disturb the good guy bacteria colony in
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the substrate too much with an effect on your biological filtration--an
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    impeding of the nitrogen cycle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Once you have determined the possible source, you can work to eliminate it,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and have the reduction of nitrate you are looking for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Audrey Archer [mailto:arch1574@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 2:52 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Algae / Snails


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hmm... I have algae in my tank, too. Have to scrape the usual dots off the
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    front and sides every week, and this week (after adding a DIY CO2 canister
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    made from a 2 litre soda bottle with sugar water, baking soda, and yeast,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with an airstone to diffuse it into the tank - to help the plants compete
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    with the algae, was my thought; it has brought my high pH back down to 7.2,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    though)now have noticed some STRINGY algae as well. I do 15% weekly water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    changes. Can't get my nitrates to read lower than 30 - 40 ppm, although my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    info I got about the oto said they prefer less than 20 ppm nitrates. Ammonia
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and nitrite both stable at 0. Ten gallons, planted with 6 Aponogetons, 3
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    dwarf lilies, about five stems of Cabomba, a mass of Riccia, and a patch of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Java Moss. Plants have not really reduced nitrates one bit since my original
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    50% water change at completion of my fishless cycle. Seems the more plants I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    try to add, the more algae I get. Fish population, 2 dwarf Gouramis (powder
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    blue male, r!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    egular female, 2 inches), 5 golden white clouds (1.5 inches), 1 otocinclus
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cat (1 inch long), and a mess of new baby snails (unidentified gilled
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    species I found in my riccia in my quarantine tank - full grown they are no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bigger than a piece of my decorative style gravel, and they are a clear
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amber in color; may have some spots according to Erin, but my eyes are not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    good; and the shell spirals counter clockwise - opening on the front left,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    dull point in the rear).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ok, so questions:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. If plants are not reducing nitrates, and water changes are not reducing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    nitrates, what other measures will help?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. Snail gurus, do you know what I have? The Riccia that contained the eggs
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    came from Plants2U in Florida.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 09:35:32 EDT
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: Andreas1Group@...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: algae back!!!!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well with no live plants in the aquarium to consume all of the nitrates
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    produced by the nitrogen cycle in your tank the alagea are consuming it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    instead and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    flourishing as a result. Put in some live plants or I guess more water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    changes would help too.






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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3815 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Is algae what causes green looking water?  I have an 80 gal turtle tank.  It has smooth rocks on the bottom.  Filtration is an Magnum 350 with bio-wheels and a power head under water on one end of the tank to push the water toward the end with the filter.  I do regular water changes and vacuum the rocks weekly.  I can't keep the water clear for some reason.  It used to sit by a window and the algae on the glass drove me so crazy we drained it cleaned it and moved it to the other side of the room.  Now there is no algae growing on anything but I can't keep the water clear.  Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:16 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting challenge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Algae is a one celled plant, except for blue green algae which is actually a bacteria that acts like an algae it is all the same in the end. Algae can only exist because there is excess nutrients in the tank. Nutriants are: light, fish waste, uneaten food, dead plants.fertilizer etc. Reocurring algae is just a syptom of another problem. Its called appathy. It will keep coming back until you decide to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3816 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that has to be how i got my snails as well.. even thought i washed them throuighly i guess there were egg sacks or what not still on them i missed.. grr. .i was being so careful.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      this is what came on my banana plants from the pet store..only mine is more gold in color..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     was a freebie..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it was just a tiny baby  & they didn't know it was there.. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3817 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: dyed fish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3818 From: harry perry Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I would suspect algae for the green water. It won't hurt your turtles. They probably like it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What kind of turtles. An 80 gal. turtle tank,WOW!!! Tell us a little about your set up so we can help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Harry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    bryants4god <bryants4god@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Is algae what causes green looking water?  I have an 80 gal turtle tank.  It has smooth rocks on the bottom.  Filtration is an Magnum 350 with bio-wheels and a power head under water on one end of the tank to push the water toward the end with the filter.  I do regular water changes and vacuum the rocks weekly.  I can't keep the water clear for some reason.  It used to sit by a window and the algae on the glass drove me so crazy we drained it cleaned it and moved it to the other side of the room.  Now there is no algae growing on anything but I can't keep the water clear.  Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:16 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting challenge.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Algae is a one celled plant, except for blue green algae which is actually a bacteria that acts like an algae it is all the same in the end. Algae can only exist because there is excess nutrients in the tank. Nutriants are: light, fish waste, uneaten food, dead plants.fertilizer etc. Reocurring algae is just a syptom of another problem. Its called appathy. It will keep coming back until you decide to


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            




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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3819 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sounds like a golden rams horn. people pay for those! lol..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jul 31, 2004, at 8:58 AM, LL314158@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >   this is what came on my banana plants from the pet store..only mine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is more gold in color..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  was a freebie..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it was just a tiny baby  & they didn't know it was there.. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > <image.tiff>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3820 From: wizard Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Help Plzzzzzzzzzzzz
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hai friends,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Can anyone suggest me the method to grow heterotrophic mode of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    algae under laboratory conditions??Heterotrophic growth needs some
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    changes in medium composition(mostly a carbon source)and dark
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    room.But wat to do during day time light???I am thinking of covering
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    the flasks with black cloth or sheets.But will that be effective???
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Suggestions plzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3821 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I like mine..he's cute & cleans the glass so good..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am glad he came w/my banana plants..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that has to be how i got my snails as well.. even thought i washed them throuighly i guess there were egg sacks or what not still on them i missed.. grr. .i was being so careful.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      this is what came on my banana plants from the pet store..only mine is more gold in color..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     was a freebie..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it was just a tiny baby  & they didn't know it was there.. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3822 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    cool..!! & I got mine as a freebie ..  Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sounds like a golden rams horn. people pay for those! lol..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    On Jul 31, 2004, at 8:58 AM, LL314158@... wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >   this is what came on my banana plants from the pet store..only mine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > is more gold in color..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    >  was a freebie..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > it was just a tiny baby  & they didn't know it was there.. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3823 From: trikashaivism Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Striped Raphael Catfish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello everybody,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I am a brand new member and would like to drawn on your knowledge
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and experience regarding my striped raphael catfish, also know and a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    striped catfish or a talking catfish.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Being a very secretative and nocturnal fellow, I seldom see him out
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    and about. However today I noticed that both pectoral fins seem to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    be missing the majority of the fin. What is left is the spiny rim
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    that runs down the outside of the pectoral fins. Besides from this
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    he seems fine and every other fish seems to be without any such
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    problems. I have had him for a good 5 or so years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Could anybody kindly shed some light on what is possibly going on
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    here. Any insight would be appreciated.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanking you,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Neil
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Group: AquaticLife Message: 3824 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It has 2 red ear sliders in it, they will shortly need a larger tank but I am hoping to put in a pond before then.  I am sure the algae doesn't bother them, they are very healthy and have lovely shells but that green water drives me crazy since the tank is in my living room.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The tank in question is the one on the far left.  See how green it is? (keep in mind there is a background taped on the back of the tank that has green foliage so that makes it look worse probably)The 3 tanks to the right of it are very clear.  I try to keep the tank as bare as possible to give them the maximum swim room.  They have a suction cup mounted turtle dock to climb up on to sit under the heat lamp.  If you need a more close up picture let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Here is a picture of the turtles, it's to large to put in an email
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have 10 tanks and that is the only one I can't keep crystal clear.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@yahoo.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I would suspect algae for the green water. It won't hurt your turtles. They probably like it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What kind of turtles. An 80 gal. turtle tank,WOW!!! Tell us a little about your set up so we can help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Harry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bryants4god <bryants4god@earthlink.net> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is algae what causes green looking water?  I have an 80 gal turtle tank.  It has smooth rocks on the bottom.  Filtration is an Magnum 350 with bio-wheels and a power head under water on one end of the tank to push the water toward the end with the filter.  I do regular water changes and vacuum the rocks weekly.  I can't keep the water clear for some reason.  It used to sit by a window and the algae on the glass drove me so crazy we drained it cleaned it and moved it to the other side of the room.  Now there is no algae growing on anything but I can't keep the water clear.  Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3825 From: harry perry Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Go to  http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Phytoplankton.htm. Algae needs light and nutrients to survive. The turtles and uneaten food are supplying the nutrients. Try a total blackout for 3 days. No light at all even from the top.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Harry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bryants4god <bryants4god@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It has 2 red ear sliders in it, they will shortly need a larger tank but I am hoping to put in a pond before then.  I am sure the algae doesn't bother them, they are very healthy and have lovely shells but that green water drives me crazy since the tank is in my living room.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The tank in question is the one on the far left.  See how green it is? (keep in mind there is a background taped on the back of the tank that has green foliage so that makes it look worse probably)The 3 tanks to the right of it are very clear.  I try to keep the tank as bare as possible to give them the maximum swim room.  They have a suction cup mounted turtle dock to climb up on to sit under the heat lamp.  If you need a more close up picture let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Here is a picture of the turtles, it's to large to put in an email
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have 10 tanks and that is the only one I can't keep crystal clear.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I would suspect algae for the green water. It won't hurt your turtles. They probably like it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What kind of turtles. An 80 gal. turtle tank,WOW!!! Tell us a little about your set up so we can help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Harry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      bryants4god <bryants4god@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Is algae what causes green looking water?  I have an 80 gal turtle tank.  It has smooth rocks on the bottom.  Filtration is an Magnum 350 with bio-wheels and a power head under water on one end of the tank to push the water toward the end with the filter.  I do regular water changes and vacuum the rocks weekly.  I can't keep the water clear for some reason.  It used to sit by a window and the algae on the glass drove me so crazy we drained it cleaned it and moved it to the other side of the room.  Now there is no algae growing on anything but I can't keep the water clear.  Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              




                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Do you Yahoo!?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3826 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i keep 4 sliders in a 125 gallon set up on my deck and i haven't gotten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      any algae yet. my filtration is no where near as good as yours. you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      might have a lot of nutrients in your tapwater. measure that too!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      On Jul 31, 2004, at 2:39 PM, harry perry wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Go to  http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Phytoplankton.htm.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Algae needs light and nutrients to survive. The turtles and uneaten
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > food are supplying the nutrients. Try a total blackout for 3 days. No
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > light at all even from the top.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Harry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > bryants4god <bryants4god@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > It has 2 red ear sliders in it, they will shortly need a larger tank
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > but I am hoping to put in a pond before then.  I am sure the algae
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > doesn't bother them, they are very healthy and have lovely shells but
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > that green water drives me crazy since the tank is in my living room.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > <image.tiff> 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > The tank in question is the one on the far left.  See how green it is?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > (keep in mind there is a background taped on the back of the tank that
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > has green foliage so that makes it look worse probably)The 3 tanks to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > the right of it are very clear.  I try to keep the tank as bare as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > possible to give them the maximum swim room.  They have a suction cup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > mounted turtle dock to climb up on to sit under the heat lamp.  If you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > need a more close up picture let me know.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Here is a picture of the turtles, it's to large to put in an email
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/terribryant/cleoanthony.jpg
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I have 10 tanks and that is the only one I can't keep crystal clear.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Terri Bryant
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > <image.tiff> 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Rainbow Snails.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Rainbow Snails - Aquabid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Rainbow Snails - Ebay
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:14 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I would suspect algae for the green water. It won't hurt your turtles.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > They probably like it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > What kind of turtles. An 80 gal. turtle tank,WOW!!! Tell us a little
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > about your set up so we can help.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Harry
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > bryants4god <bryants4god@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Is algae what causes green looking water?  I have an 80 gal turtle
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > tank.  It has smooth rocks on the bottom.  Filtration is an Magnum 350
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > with bio-wheels and a power head under water on one end of the tank to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > push the water toward the end with the filter.  I do regular water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > changes and vacuum the rocks weekly.  I can't keep the water clear for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > some reason.  It used to sit by a window and the algae on the glass
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > drove me so crazy we drained it cleaned it and moved it to the other
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > side of the room.  Now there is no algae growing on anything but I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > can't keep the water clear.  Any suggestions?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      >         
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > <l.gif>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3827 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mine are darker that is the issue they seem very dark.. and spiral up.. does that make sense.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That first pic is probably an older adult.  When they are younger the shells are more clearish and can be tan at the tip of the spiral.  The other thing is in the aquarium they are very shiny looking which may be why it doesn't look exactly like yours. (or it simply may not be what you have lol..)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      From: agentscullyeyore@... [mailto:agentscullyeyore@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:42 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i think maby ei might have the first pic shown.. not sure though.. not quit grabbing me.. shannon 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Group: AquaticLife Message: 3828 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Subject: snails terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ok this is what i think i have but unless there is a really powerful camera mine are alot smaller like they can fit inside my finger nails which are not very long.. and they are darker... is that apossibility.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        have one more it might be, sometimes baby vivs hitch on new plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If any of you are snail freaks like me lol, I have tons of snail pictures on my online album.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3829 From: Nimish Mathur Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Foi adicionado no forum a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Aaron,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Strange. It does not open for me and in some previous cases where it did
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        open, it asked me to create an account to view them. This is the reason why
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I commented on that. Maybe it is a problem on my end and so I misunderstood
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Cheers,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nim


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >-----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >From: Aaron [mailto:massagetherapist@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Sent: 31 July 2004 00:51
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Foi adicionado no forum a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >I clicked the link and it opened up a website with dozens of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >beautiful photos of healthy fish in planted tanks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >I do not know what language it is and cannot read it, so I'm not
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >about to censor him just because I do not know what he is saying.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >It says on the home page, ..."Please feel free to post anything -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >links, photos, questions & advice." as well it used to say -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > "...please post links to your photos..." until I ran out of text
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >space and deleted that part from the description recently. so it is
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >within the minimal guidelines of the group.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Nimish
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Mathur" <nimmat4@y...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Is this not SPAM?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> _____
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> From: Paulo Gatti [mailto:apmgjr@b...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Sent: 30 July 2004 13:47
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >forum a
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> matéria sobre o meu aqua que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=254
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> direct link!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> ----- Original Message -----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> From: Paulo Gatti <mailto:apmgjr@b...>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 8:01 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Foi adicionado no forum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >a matéria
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> sobre o meu aqua que foi para o CBAP e AGA 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Agora no fórum AquaBahia a matéria completa sobre meu aquário que
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >foi para o
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> CBAP e AGA 2004!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Ps.: 2º colocado no CBAP
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Veja maiores detalhes no fórum:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> http://forum.aquabahia.com.br
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> As fotos em:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> <http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/index.php> aquabahia.com.br -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >Índice do
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Fórum -> <http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewforum.php?f=1> Álbum
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >de Fotos -
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Doce ->
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> <http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/viewtopic.php?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >t=254&start=0&postdays=0&postor
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> der=asc&highlight=> Meu aquario plantado que foi pro CBAP e pro
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >AGA 2004!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Se você não for um usuário registrado no fórum clique no link
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >abaixo e
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> realize seu registro, é fácil rápido e gratuito:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/profile.php?mode=register
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> <http://forum.aquabahia.com.br/profile.php?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >mode=register&sid=8cb090d29b29521
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> 4258728f7ff79cdaf> &sid=8cb090d29b295214258728f7ff79cdaf
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Abraços,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> GATTI
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129jl8ltj/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >76/D=gr
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >oups/S=1705417564:HM/EXP=1091278057/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >:/compa
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> nion.yahoo.com> click here
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> :HM/A=2128215/rand=769886978>
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3830 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        im glad you like yours my only fear is that one day i will wake up to 100 of them.. i dont want them everywhere if i knew they would  stay with only a few i woudl keep them but i have been told most likly they will swarm my tank so i get rid of the ones i see which as been 9 so far... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        like mine..he's cute & cleans the glass so good..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am glad he came w/my banana plants..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        that has to be how i got my snails as well.. even thought i washed them throuighly i guess there were egg sacks or what not still on them i missed.. grr. .i was being so careful.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          this is what came on my banana plants from the pet store..only mine is more gold in color..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         was a freebie..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        it was just a tiny baby  & they didn't know it was there.. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Group: AquaticLife Message: 3831 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Subject: Re: snails terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          These start out very small, how old do you think yours are?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com [mailto:agentscullyeyore@aol.com]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 1:54 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] snails terri

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ok this is what i think i have but unless there is a really powerful camera mine are alot smaller like they can fit inside my finger nails which are not very long.. and they are darker... is that apossibility.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          have one more it might be, sometimes baby vivs hitch on new plants.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If any of you are snail freaks like me lol, I have tons of snail pictures on my online album.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3832 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'll try that.  Turtles won't be happy but it's short term.   I forgot to mention I also have 4 million guppies in that tank.  Turtles used to eat them and then they stopped.  I can't believe how fast those things multiply!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 1:40 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Go to  http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Phytoplankton.htm. Algae needs light and nutrients to survive. The turtles and uneaten food are supplying the nutrients. Try a total blackout for 3 days. No light at all even from the top.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Harry

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bryants4god <bryants4god@...> wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It has 2 red ear sliders in it, they will shortly need a larger tank but I am hoping to put in a pond before then.  I am sure the algae doesn't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3833 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Are your sliders babies?  Mine are almost a year old, they need 10 gallons of water per inch of shell when measuring the flat under shell.  Right now for me that's about 90 gal, but I don't want to buy another glass tank.  I'd rather house them outside were they can have tons more room.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 1:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i keep 4 sliders in a 125 gallon set up on my deck and i haven't gotten any algae yet. my filtration is no where near as good as yours. you might have a lot of nutrients in your tapwater. measure that too!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jul 31, 2004, at 2:39 PM, harry perry wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3834 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I just read this, should I do a full water change to get as much of it out of the tank before I turn all the lights off or leave it as it is?  Will it matter?  Maybe I should take the rocks out of the bottom so the excess food won't have a place to hide.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: harry perry [mailto:harryfisherman@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 1:40 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: RE: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Go to  http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Phytoplankton.htm. Algae needs light and nutrients to survive. The turtles and uneaten food are supplying the nutrients. Try a total blackout for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3835 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          mine are all old. i've had one for 17 years and it was several years
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          old when i got it. the 2 biggest are maybe 8" and the other 2 are about
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          6" long. they're very happy :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jul 31, 2004, at 4:35 PM, bryants4god wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Are your sliders babies?  Mine are almost a year old, they need 10
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gallons of water per inch of shell when measuring the flat under
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > shell.  Right now for me that's about 90 gal, but I don't want to buy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > another glass tank.  I'd rather house them outside were they can have
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > tons more room.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >  
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 1:46 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > i keep 4 sliders in a 125 gallon set up on my deck and i haven't
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > gotten any algae yet. my filtration is no where near as good as yours.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > you might have a lot of nutrients in your tapwater. measure that too!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > On Jul 31, 2004, at 2:39 PM, harry perry wrote:
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3836 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          do you siphon out the gunk on the bottom periodically? you ought to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "vacuuming" the bottom at least once a week. there's a lot of nutrients
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          in that stuff and it can cause a bloom.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jul 31, 2004, at 4:38 PM, bryants4god wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I just read this, should I do a full water change to get as much of it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > out of the tank before I turn all the lights off or leave it as it
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > is?  Will it matter?  Maybe I should take the rocks out of the bottom
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > so the excess food won't have a place to hide.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.amaltheasattic.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Custom Dreadfalls, Synthetic Hair Pieces, and Other Artful
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Adornments....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3837 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yes I have a python and I vacuum the rocks once a week.  Lots of crud comes up sometimes I vacuum twice a week :-(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am glad your turtles are doing so well in that size tank, now I don't feel so guilty about thinking mine need a bigger home right away!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 3:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          do you siphon out the gunk on the bottom periodically? you ought to be "vacuuming" the bottom at least once a week. there's a lot of nutrients in that stuff and it can cause a bloom.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jul 31, 2004, at 4:38 PM, bryants4god wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3838 From: amalthea23 Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae, an interesting challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          during the winter, they all stay in a 60 gallon and they're very happy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          no peeling shells, they eat, they grow. just keep the water clean, and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          give them a wide variety of foods. i think that's the most important
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          part.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On Jul 31, 2004, at 4:53 PM, bryants4god wrote:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Yes I have a python and I vacuum the rocks once a week.  Lots of crud
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > comes up sometimes I vacuum twice a week :-(
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I am glad your turtles are doing so well in that size tank, now I
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > don't feel so guilty about thinking mine need a bigger home right
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > away!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Terri Bryant
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Rainbow Snails.com
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > From: amalthea23 [mailto:amalthea23@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 3:42 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Algae, an interesting
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > challenge./Terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > do you siphon out the gunk on the bottom periodically? you ought to be
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > "vacuuming" the bottom at least once a week. there's a lot of
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > nutrients in that stuff and it can cause a bloom.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > amalthea
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > On Jul 31, 2004, at 4:38 PM, bryants4god wrote:
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3839 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: snails terri
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          well as soon as i see them they are like pencil lead sized... then i dispose of them... if i dont im scared they will be everywhere.. shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          These start out very small, how old do you think yours are?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Terri Bryant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3840 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          well only have one so far..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they can't impregnant themselves can they..??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          either way..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I do want a couple more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my oldest daughter & her husband have a huge tank--
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           75 gallon I think ..or 125 not sure which it is..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but am sure she will take a few if I have more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          im glad you like yours my only fear is that one day i will wake up to 100 of them.. i dont want them everywhere if i knew they would  stay with only a few i woudl keep them but i have been told most likly they will swarm my tank so i get rid of the ones i see which as been 9 so far... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          like mine..he's cute & cleans the glass so good..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am glad he came w/my banana plants..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3841 From: agentscullyeyore@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          yea there a sexual they dont need each other to reproduce.. well some are not sure for all actually but terri will know and let us know.. all i knwo is that ppl tell me to watch out cuase youll have tons one day... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          well only have one so far..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they can't impregnant themselves can they..??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          either way..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I do want a couple more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my oldest daughter & her husband have a huge tank--
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           75 gallon I think ..or 125 not sure which it is..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but am sure she will take a few if I have more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          im glad you like yours my only fear is that one day i will wake up to 100 of them.. i dont want them everywhere if i knew they would  stay with only a few i woudl keep them but i have been told most likly they will swarm my tank so i get rid of the ones i see which as been 9 so far... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          like mine..he's cute & cleans the glass so good..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am glad he came w/my banana plants..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3842 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The ramshorn and the physid are asexual but when you put 2 together they will reproduce.  They can't do it alone.  If you have a local pet store that sells aquatic plants go in and see if there are any clinging to the plants, they'll probably let you pick them off for free.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: LL314158@... [mailto:LL314158@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 7:43 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          well only have one so far..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they can't impregnant themselves can they..??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          either way..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I do want a couple more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my oldest daughter & her husband have a huge tank--
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           75 gallon I think ..or 125 not sure which it is..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but am sure she will take a few if I have more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          im glad you like yours my only fear is that one day i will wake up to 100 of them.. i dont want them everywhere if i knew they would  stay with only a few i woudl keep them but i have been told most likly they will swarm my tank so i get rid of the ones i see which as been 9 so far... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          like mine..he's cute & cleans the glass so good..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am glad he came w/my banana plants..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Linda M.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3843 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cool !!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I hope so !!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          would love a few more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but my huge black spotted  mollie (3 inches) have a solid white one too .. same size..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          would most likely eat them .. they eat my baby guppies !!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          don't have any now ..guppies that is ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          like I said before.. my daughter could use a few ..lol..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          yeah their asexual they dont need each other to reproduce.. well some are not sure for all actually but terri will know and let us know.. all i knwo is that ppl tell me to watch out cuase youll have tons one day... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          well only have one so far..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they can't impregnant themselves can they..??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          either way..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I do want a couple more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my oldest daughter & her husband have a huge tank--
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           75 gallon I think ..or 125 not sure which it is..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but am sure she will take a few if I have more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3844 From: bryants4god Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          They are good about hiding in the gravel.  They probably would survive in the tank with the fish.  They will get about nickel size.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From: LL314158@... [mailto:LL314158@...]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 8:31 PM
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          cool !!!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I hope so !!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          would love a few more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but my huge black spotted  mollie (3 inches) have a solid white one too .. same size..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          would most likely eat them .. they eat my baby guppies !!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          don't have any now ..guppies that is ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          like I said before.. my daughter could use a few ..lol..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          yeah their asexual they dont need each other to reproduce.. well some are not sure for all actually but terri will know and let us know.. all i knwo is that ppl tell me to watch out cuase youll have tons one day... shannon
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          well only have one so far..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they can't impregnant themselves can they..??
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          either way..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I do want a couple more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          my oldest daughter & her husband have a huge tank--
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           75 gallon I think ..or 125 not sure which it is..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          but am sure she will take a few if I have more..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3845 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I was looking at Clown Plecostamus the other day when we were at Petsmart, and silly me didn't jot down how big their adult size was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm debating whether we should get one for our 15 gallon. But I want to know how big they get, first. They seemed shorter but rounder than the "Common Plecostamus" ... and I can't seem to find anything online that says how big these guys get.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for any help you can give.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3846 From: LL314158@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            hi.. my name is Linda ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have 5 plecostomus in my koi & goldfish pond ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they got  too big, real quick for my 10 gallon aquarium ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          their approx 8 inches now in length ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          they're great for keeping a tank clean but get too big,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           way too fast..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          would reccomend albino cory cats or some fish like that..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I have 2 small ones now in my 10 gallon tank ..
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Linda M.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I was looking at Clown Plecostamus the other day when we were at Petsmart, and silly me didn't jot down how big their adult size was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm debating whether we should get one for our 15 gallon. But I want to know how big they get, first. They seemed shorter but rounder than the "Common Plecostamus" ... and I can't seem to find anything online that says how big these guys get.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for any help you can give.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3847 From: Dozer Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I've got one of these in a 10 and believe they only reach 3.5 in. Its a great little algae eater, but mostly nocturnal. You won't see much of them if there are hiding places. Its good to have some real driftwood in the tank for them as well. Here's a link to fishbase for them:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Witchywmn42@... wrote:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I was looking at Clown Plecostamus the other day when we were at Petsmart, and silly me didn't jot down how big their adult size was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm debating whether we should get one for our 15 gallon. But I want to know how big they get, first. They seemed shorter but rounder than the "Common Plecostamus" ... and I can't seem to find anything online that says how big these guys get.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Thanks for any help you can give.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3848 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 7/30/2004 8:52:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bryants4god@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Is this what you are seeing?  This is a common ramshorn.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Nope. The snails I've got are more cone shaped, not round like that. And mine are lighter colored, more transparent. They appear to be eating algae ... most of them are in my breeder box, and they're eating the various debris and algae that is accumulating in there.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3849 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In a message dated 7/30/2004 9:04:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, massagetherapist@... writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Can you list any shows that you've seen aquariums in

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Fiction, or non-fiction?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Reason I'm asking, is Monster House had an episode where they did this family's house with shark decor, and they put a pretty big tank in the wall between their livingroom and their son's room, and put bala sharks in it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Someone mentioned that Dr. Flox on Star Trek Enterprise uses Explorer tanks for his little critters, but not sure if that counts what you are asking about. *grin*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3850 From: Aaron Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          "BarberShop 2", when they break into 'Nappy Cutz' there is a very
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          bib Salt Water Tank in the wall.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ---the Movie "About A Boy" >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > I have noticed alot of movies and TV shows that feature aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > part of the set.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Can you list any shows that you've seen aquariums in, especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > those that played an integral part of the script, i.e. "Duece
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Bigelow", etc...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Group: AquaticLife Message: 3851 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Subject: Re: Algae / Snails/Mollie headstands
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/31/2004 4:21:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bryants4god@earthlink.net writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Here are 2 more with spiral shells and 1 of a grown ramshorn.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That one looks closest so far ... kinda hard for me to tell which direction the spiral is going though. My snails shells have the opening on the left side, and even the adults are transparent.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3852 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/31/2004 7:08:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Witchywmn42@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Common Plecostamus" ... and I can't seem to find anything online that says how big these guys get.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for any help you can give.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't have an answer for you on their adult size but look into a buchy nose pleco.  They do not get nearly as big as the common plecos.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3853 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/30/2004 6:04:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, massagetherapist@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have noticed alot of movies and TV shows that feature aquariums as
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            part of the set.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Can you list any shows that you've seen aquariums in, especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            those that played an integral part of the script, i.e. "Duece
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bigelow", etc...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That Tom Cruise movie, the name escapes me, oh ya, MIssion IMpossible.  He is in a restaraunt with a U.S. agent and he explodes a giant aquarium to make his get away.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3854 From: Witchywmn42@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: attn Terri Re : snails
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for sending all the snail photos ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Okay... the snails we have, have the same SHAPE shell as this one from your photobucket ... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/terribryant/ivory1.jpg


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ours are a LOT smaller. They are only half the size of my fish fry (that are about a week or so old) at their adult size.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Shell color is sheer amber, with some small darker brown speckles.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And oh joy of joys, I noticed earlier tonight that they've laid eggs in my breeder box again. LOL well at least something is successfully reproducing in the thing.  The eggs are VERY small, look sort of like bubbles only they don't move. The eggs are in clusters of ten or so, kind of hard to count because they are so small, and are whitish cream colored.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't know how much of a snail population is good, and how much is considered "pest". There are four that I can see that have survived escaping from the breeder box. If there are more, they have found good hiding places. *grin*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So how many small snails is too much for a 15 gallon tank? And how can I safely remove them without harming my fish? (especially the babies) I haven't tried the recommended lettuce leaf yet, because I don't want to weigh down the breeder box with a rock, and that's where most of the snails are contained. LOL

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hubby wants me to just leave the snails be ... but I'm worried about the rapid reproduction getting out of hand. Should I leave them be? They don't seem to be having any negative effect on the fish or anything ... and are in fact keeping the breeder box clean of fish fry leavings better than the package recommended "lift and swish" method. Or should I get rid of them all? I'd hate to resort to chemical "snailicides" if there is another way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html

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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3855 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/30/2004 10:19:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, purrfectpals569@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Can you list any shows that you've seen aquariums in, especially
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > those that played an integral part of the script, i.e. "Duece
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Bigelow", etc...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Have a great weekend,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Aaron
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just thought of one, hope I am not repeating.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            A Fish Called Wanda.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I laughed so hard watching that movie, man it had some great scenes.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3856 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In a message dated 7/31/2004 9:44:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Deenerz@... writes:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Erin,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't have an answer for you on their adult size but look into a buchy nose pleco.  They do not get nearly as big as the common plecos.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Er make that bushy nose.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Too tired to type  : )
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Mike
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3857 From: Dan & Theresa Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: How big do Clown Plecostamus get?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Check out http://www.planetcatfish.com/core/index.htm Look in the Cat-eLog under ' All species ordered by common names'. Great source of info on almost any catfish.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            ----- Original Message -----

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I was looking at Clown Plecostamus the other day when we were at Petsmart, and silly me didn't jot down how big their adult size was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm debating whether we should get one for our 15 gallon. But I want to know how big they get, first. They seemed shorter but rounder than the "Common Plecostamus" ... and I can't seem to find anything online that says how big these guys get
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Group: AquaticLife Message: 3858 From: Lisa Wells Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Subject: Re: Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Attachments :
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just thought of an episode of CSI we'd rented a few weeks ago.  Interestingly,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the aquarium was not just seen but woven into the plot.  A teenager tried to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              kill his parents by making it look like CO from their fireplace had gotten them;
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              the dad survived (he was a smoker), and it was discovered that the kid from
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              he** had used the charcoal from his filter as the tool for creating the deadly
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              smoke (at least, that's how I remembered it, LOL). 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Lisa Wells
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              SAHM to Becca, Tyler and Ashley
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm working at home!  It can be done!  Ask me for more info!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              -------Original Message-------
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Date: 07/31/04 21:49:56
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Movies & TV shows w/ Aquariums
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In a message dated 7/30/2004 9:04:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, massagetherapist@mail.com writes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Can you list any shows that you've seen aquariums in

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Fiction, or non-fiction?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Reason I'm asking, is Monster House had an episode where they did this family's house with shark decor, and they put a pretty big tank in the wall between their livingroom and their son's room, and put bala sharks in it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Someone mentioned that Dr. Flox on Star Trek Enterprise uses Explorer tanks for his little critters, but not sure if that counts what you are asking about. *grin*
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Erin
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              CelticParents http://www.celticparents.com

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~Lair of the Anime Witches~ http://www.celticparents.com/anime/index2.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              my LiveJournal http://www.livejournal.com/users/celticmommy/



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Group: AquaticLife Message: 3859 From: utacutie Date: 7/31/2004
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Subject: Cycling question
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hi all, just tested the water and ammonia and nitrite are high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Ammonia is at about 3ppm and nitrite is at 2. Is this normal for
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              cycling and is my fish suffering from this?? The fish doesnt appear
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              to be stressed, and is eating fine..are there any measures I need to
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              change (ie: decrease feeding, water change) to prevent death in my
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              tank, but to keep the cycle going. Thanks!